text:
Yeah... this might be some sort of miscommunication. Mickey Mouse's lawyers might not have really understood the implications of a BSD license. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ptex site disappears, nothing further ever arrives along the lines of open-source code, and Disney's lawyers attempt to find loopholes to get mirrors of the Ptex source taken down.
Disney has always held tight controls over their IP, and while the BSD license gives them a lot of control over what *they* do with Ptex, it gives the comm
Disney has always held tight controls over their IP,
This is a major understatement. Disney is the reason why Copyright has been extended for so long. I mean its nicknamed the Mickey Mouse Copyright act for a reason.
On top of that is their aggressive appropriation of endless folk tales from all cultures. They don't just lock up their ideas for eternity, they want to lock up public domain works as well.
Trust me, anything like this has been carefully been gone over by quite a few lawyers. Disney uses software that comes under a variety of licenses and looks at each one carefully, and they're even more careful when it comes to releasing something.
In this case, they want the ptex file format to be used and support to become wider among apps. Releasing the libraries (especially under BSD) will make it easier for 3rd party applications to incorporate it.
Get it while you can they open the vault for a limited time
I always thought that phrase was a, umm, euphemism... ya know?
Offtopic, but your sig is wrong. Money would be equal to Work multiplied by Knowledge.
Knowledge = Power
Time = Money
Power = Work / Time
Power = Work / Money
Knowledge = Work / Money
Solve for Money:
Knowledge = Work / Money
# Multiply both sides by Work
Work * Knowledge = Work / Money * Work
# Work / Money * Work = Money, so:
Work * Knowledge = Money
Money = Work * Knowledge
Knowledge = Work / Money
Solve for Money:
Knowledge = Work / Money
# Multiply both sides by Work
Work * Knowledge = Work / Money * Work
# Work / Money * Work = Money, so:
Work * Knowledge = Money
Money = Work * Knowledge
don't you wish slashdot had a "remove my comment" feature? now you're stuck with this very embarrassing post (brain fart or lack of caffeine?)
Yep... Pretty big brain fart there, now permanently stuck in the interwebs for all perpetuity.
Indeed, Money = Work / Knowledge
Knowledge = Work / Money
# Multiply both sides by Work
Work * Knowledge = Work / Money * Work
Work * Knowledge = Money
Based on that statement of your algebra knowledge, I think you must make a LOT of money!
Remember that Pixar bought Disney for minus a jillion dollars a while ago.
He's also CEO of Apple, who never ever contribute any open source such as Darwin or WebKit.
That they gave away a little to gain a lot of it.
Wasn't that how it was supposed to work? Maybe Bruce Perens can back me up on this, but I thought Open Source was supposed to be good for profits and business.
You'll note that the iPhone was not given as an example of an Apple open-source project.
Yes but open source was primary supposed to be good for the end-user.
It's worth refining our terms here... Because Apple was able to use BSD code, they were able to field a very competitve OS to Windows in a short time period, and they benefit from all of the work getting done on BSD and the GCC toolchain. This has significantly expanded the options of OSs available to home users... it has not made computer OSs magically free, and it has not given power users maximal liberty, but the first isn't going to
Theo didn't invent Open Source, and he ain't the arbiter of what it is or what it's for.
Leaving the teleology aside, BSD or GPL licenses do not create or entail greater end-user liberty -- that's just a fact of history at this point. A lot of hairy people made a lot of crazy prognostications in the early 80s, and even by their own standards it's unclear what their intentions were with regard to non-developer end-users. Is my mom in the cathedral or the bazaar? The answer is she's in neither.
Now leave me
If OSX 10.6 stopped letting me install my own apps and disabled X Code and locked out Terminal.app or kept me from tinkering with the kernel(trufax, Atom support for OSX got rebuilt into it through kernel hacks from Darwin source) to the point where I can run OSX on top of unsupported hardware...
I'll buy that fucking theory. If any hardware vendor shipped a linux distro on board that's as slick as OSX, i'd probably switch. No such distro exists, no such hardware vendor exists.
Do you not think there might be some possibility they might gain from releasing this code?
PS: I'm an Iphone developer so I have no problem installing whatever I want on my iPhone without jailbreaking it. There is some open source software in the app store as well, that anyone can install.
Only Apple is gaining? A lot of people use WebKit. you're probably a Google fan? Maybe Palm? You've heard of Android, Chrome and the Pre, right? Perhaps you use KDE and Konquerer?
You've obviously got an axe to grind. The iPhone isn't particularly open, but you might have noticed that's only one of Apple's products. Saying they're the only ones to have gained from their open source contributions is just stupid.
Indeed. An even more worrying issue is that (which, IIRC, has happened at least once): someone could port your open source software to the Iphone, with or without your permission, and get it on the Apple Store. But if you then decide to port it yourself, Apple won't allow it on their store - thus no one will be able to run your version (except a few who have hacked their phones).
One obvious issue is that they're now making money from your free work. Whilst open source has always allowed commercial use, a ke
That's the way you recognize smart entrepreneurs.
Steve Jobs of NeXT bought Apple for -429 million dollars in 1996.
Steve Jobs of Pixar bought Disney for -7.4 billion dollars in 2004.
Talk about Reality Distortion Field !
They can open up this but not Mickey Mouse? What does that say about this software?
Maybe they're looking for new talent and now applicants know where to send their resumes (their new website)
This is great, a similar thing happened with Open EXR [openexr.com] which is an image file format for high end film production. ILM open sourced it and it was quickly picked up by other studios, which lead to the software companies implementing it.
It seems like it's a good route for the VFX companies to take. Open source tools that are useful, then they get implemented in the main software packages which reduces your costs of maintaining plugins and a lot of custom code.
Besides ILM and Disney, Sony has also been releasing a lot of code recently, though I don't know how good it is. OSL (open shading language) is probably the big one there.
The purpose of this is so that other software will read/write these formats. Effects houses use lots of commercial software and free software. They also have to cooperate with *other* effects houses so limiting their own software will not help (look at the credits on the end of any big-budget movie and you will see six or more effects comp
Kudos to Disney for this! Very cool.
One of the reason this is so rare, though, is that patents and IP in graphics are in a bit of a mucky muck. Companies just cross-license and forget about it, but usually that means nothing gets opened up because it's too much work to determine if they can, legally, or it's too risky, legally.
I hope they keep this up.And some lawyer doesn't come and ruin it, which I guess is inevitable, but I hope it's not right away.
Pointing this out, of course, will get me modnuked, but what the hell: Yes Disney, after extending copyrights, being instrumental in the oppression and exploitation of dozens of countries, forcing our community to defend itself with complex legal language, placing the culture of going on three generations' childhoods behind a pay wall -- we'll forgive you because you released the source code for a texture mapper. Why? Because This. Is. Slashdoooooot! And as long as you contribute source code, we'll overlook
Even if it's fun to imagine that, a company isn't a monolithic entity and certainly not a person like you are trying to picture.
Even if it's fun to imagine that, a company isn't a monolithic entity and certainly not a person like you are trying to picture.
If we're going to give personhood to corporations, and extend them the same rights we have, then I fully intend to judge them on that basis as well.
Why? Because This. Is. Slashdoooooot! And as long as you make us laugh or give us a target, we'll overlook all your other sins.
I think you meant overrate all my other sins. Or at least, that's what usually happens around here.
You never bite the hand that feeds, while it's feeding.
Uh what gave you the impression that Disney is now forgiven for their copyright antics?
We're praising them for doing something good. That's all.
If everytime an asshole does something good you tell them to fuck off then they'll never change, except into a bigger asshole. Could this be the tiniest of indications that Disney is heading towards a more open culture, with the result that they would start to allow culture to be open? LOL, I doubt it. It's still a good and exciting thing, though, even if it's t
You deserve to be modnuked for your trollish attention whoring. I hope you are eventually discovered to be a male in disguise so people stop modding you up for having "girl" in your handle.
we'll forgive you because you released the source code for a texture mapper. Why?
Because unfolding UVs is a fucking pain. It's time consuming, and if this shader lets you skip that step, then I'll love you for giving it to me free of charge. It's like giving me back days of my future life. DAYS!
This is correct.
In fact it was not too long ago that people (including posters here!) complained about errors in the glib headers that caused them to include too many other files, thus making the programs not port to other systems (inclusion of stdlib.h and assert.h were the most common). This has been fixed, folks. So now you can show your ignorance by ranting about the reverse problem so you can still blame Linux.
Greg Brandeau, the new CTO at Disney, is a powerful advocate of open source. He worked very hard (within the bounds of antitrust law) to help various visual effects and animation studios with Linux, addressing common issues to everybody's benefit. It's good to see projects like this, that studios have put huge amounts of effort into, released into the open source community.
Of course, I have to put my money where my mouth is now
Resisting videotape....resisting DVD....DiVX (the ridiculous original one, not the codec today)...and then releasing a cutting-edge 3d library to the world for free?
Cognitive dissonance on Disney is tearing me apart. Do we hate them or love them?
We hate them, they pushed for effectively infinite copyright protections because some Air Pirates drew pictures of Mickey Mouse doing things almost everyone has done at some point in their lives.
Greg Brandeau, the new CTO at Disney, is a powerful advocate of open source. He worked very hard (within the bounds of antitrust law) to help various visual effects and animation studios with Linux, addressing common issues to everybody's benefit.
I think that's the real point here. Does anyone seriously believe having access to Disney's software will have them churning out Disney-quality movies in a few weeks? The investment required to produce one of the Pixar movies we all like is incredible. Having good software makes a digital film studio more efficient, but it's not really differentiating. That is, every digital film studio is going to rely on software of some kind, and it's all going to be designed to do more or less the same thing. So why sho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxNlAlOuQQQ [youtube.com]
That's a really nice system, I hope it can be adopted into other packages as a plugin or something as it stays under the BSD license.
I wonder if it'd be possible to integrate this with ARtoolkit. I was just about to put some money into a couple good webcams and a consumer HMD so I could really play around with doing cool stuff in AR.
Sigmund Freud is alleged to have said that in the last analysis the entire field of psychology may reduce to biological electrochemistry.


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text:
Where this happens just as you say it will? I've never heard of 10,000 people waiting for a game before...
Student Section going GA
it WILL happen eventually. Like I've mentioned before, what if we're 11-0 going into the Ohio game? I'd put the over under at how early people start camping out at 2 weeks.
but it doesn't change the fact that there will 100% without a doubt be 10,000 students standing outside Michigan Stadium at 10:00am on November 30, 2013.
So, those pledges who will wait 6 days will damage themselves academically for a frat? If they are that dumb, they deserve to fail out.
Shit dude, calm down a little. At the end of the day, it's just seating for a football game, what's gonna matter is that you were actually there, not that some people waited longer than you for seats.
For UTL, I paid 300 bucks and sat in the SE corner, I had 5 inches of butt space and knees in my back the whole game. For OSU my friends and I were literally in all 4 corners of the stadium. For this past year I got Student Seats, showed up an hour before every game, I was seated right above the section entrances, and watched people roll in as the team was running onto the field or even later
In 20 years am I going to mention any of that? No. What I'm going to talk about is watching the games.
There's no such thing as a bad seat in the Big House.
You want a seating horror story? In 2010 I drove down to the Horseshoe, had upper level seats, got to my seat, and I was literally behind a fucking pillar. The pillar wasn't near me, it was literally right in front of my seat. Be thankful we don't have to put up with anything like that
to the people who've been bitching and moaning for the past two years about students not showing up on time to games?
You could probably could.
But I'm addressing that in most of your posts, you're worried about people camping out and stealing all the "good seats". I'm saying that there's no bad seats in the Big House, and that being there is a whole lot more memorable than whatever row you end up in
I had friends who didn't want to head over early. But even they would admit they remember almost nothing from tailgates before the game, or any particular study session. They're pretty generic. But a Michigan Football game...! Some of those memories last forever. And even the snoozers often stick with you more than beer games. What if you came late and missed Denard's first run of the ball for a TD? Heck, things like Delaware State's band make that game more memorable than 99% of pregame partying.
Dunno if you meant to reply to me or not, but I agree with you. I think just being there (no matter where your seats are) is just great
Not every reply is a post of disagreement. This was more a "And furthermore...!"
You're absolutely right about no really bad seats. Talk to someone in the ticket office, and they will tell you that among season ticket holders seeking to improve their seat location, the most requested area outside of the 50 yard line is... the top row! The vast majority of requests are to move to higher rows; not lower rows. It's amazing to me to read so many posts in this thread by current students who act as if sitting above row 30 is akin to being exiled to Siberia.
here's the new "official" petition because the other one could easily have problems with people signing multiple times
But I'm wondering if raising student ticket costs is another measure to help with attendance (in addition to being a cash grab). Will students be less likely to buy and waste season tickets if they're more expensive? Not sure if I actually think this, I'm just throwing it put there. And PS: I was there from 94-98 and I was at kickoff for every game most cases when the band took the field. And I was in a sorority. Greek fans do exist.
I strongly disagree with this move. I think people are STRONGLY underestimating what many of the current students have been posting in reference to basketball season. The OSU game was complete chaos before tipoff. People literally almost got trampled and I am not joking in the slightest. This was with only a few thousands students. There are going to be thousands of students rushing all at once to get in right before kickoff. Anybody who's been in a line like this knows full well that there is going to be a push right before people are about to get in. There is also going to be a ton of confusion and anger with the lines and people cutting. Add in a ton of alcohol (which students will get) and this crowd is not going to be calm.
On top of this, I think a lot of people are being safe with their 2 AM assumptions. I've talked to several people at schools with general admission already and they've told me they wait overnight for games not even close to the size Michigan will have in the future. The lines are going to end up going for well over 24 hours in the future. Maybe not next year, but within a few seasons it's going to happen.
I don't care whether you think people are bad fans or not, students are at school for school first and other things second. I don't understand why we need a policy that's going to create chaos before kickoff and waste a ton of time for the students just to look better on TV. We can't create anything more intelligent than general admission? Come on. Why can't they institute a "hail" like system with an MCard swipe when you walk in? What's so tough about this? This is a poorly thought out plan that's going to hurt students.
the OSU game was a mess. i was there 5 and a half hours before tip-off and didn't get bleacher seats because of everyone pushing past me during the rush.
They're going to need to significantly up security outside the gates to prevent potential crush situations when they start taking tickets and at the tunnel entrances, which will be the other dangerous location.
The first 20 rows require a seat, then the rest GA (or similar)?
When did sitting in the first 10 rows get to be a thing? It's one of the worst ways to watch a game in Michigan Stadium. Especially in Sections 29-33; the better view is from about row 40 to about row 70.
Who seriously thinks that there is a better view of the game from the first ten rows?
well no obviously. but then you get to hang with Devin Gardner after he does his Big House Leap at the end of the game.
Which is nice.
YouTube started.
+1. Insightful.
Nope. Section 23. Block M shall not be upside down.
I hate these threads. It just turns into alumni bitching about "back in my day we didn't have this problem" and then blaming the students.
Guess what, if a student is reading this blog then they probably aren't part of the problem. I haven't missed kickoff in 3 years so it gets old seeing everyone say how today's students don't care and whatnot.
I'm not too upset about having to get there a little earlier. Now I just can't sleep in as long, which is how I spend my Saturday mornings. I'm just upset that I waited my time to get good seats and now I'm getting the shaft.
line is bull shit, too. Because back in their day, it was much easier to sneak booze into the stadium plus you could leave at half, go to the liqour store across the street (it's now a wireless toyz) then re-enter the stadium. They got to the game on time, because they didn't have to do all the drinking before hand.
You're talking about like the 1970s. None of the things you describe were true a decade ago. 9/11 happened when I was a student, so no, you couldn't easily smuggle things in after that. You know what? People still made it to the games on time.
This whole business of huge numbers of students not showing up before kickoff is a very recent phenomenon. Stop making excuses for it. Get to the damn games on time. It's not that hard.
We've now had multiple football players record PSAs urging students to come to the games on time. Do it for them at least.
People are talking about long, long ago...2005, 2006. And of course, the 30 years before that.
Stay up till 3 or 4 am drinking. Still get up at 8 or 9 am to start again. And somehow we found a way to get to the Stadium by NOON! (Didn't have enough time to drink LAST season where we had the most late start games in history??) And manage our wine without all the whine.
I am talking about 2008-2011...
It's still not too terribly hard to sneak a bit of refreshment into the game.
But yeah, the days of bringing a quarter-barrel into the game, and watching Michigan down Navy 70 to 14 were good times.
is that the students were fine with the old policy. The people who cared the most about studnet behavior seemed to be those who had limited access to tickets and didn't like to see the students come late because they wish they were at the game. This is an understandable viewpoint but also a negligable one because hey, you don't go here, you didn't go here, etc. The great majority of students got the fun of partying from the break of dawn until game time and still made it for toe to meet leather. Now, they don't, and that sucks.
Those of us in the Drumline showed up 11 minutes before kickoff, and we got seats on the FIELD, fergodsakes!
I for one find this news AMAZING! I am a grad student at UM-Flint and did my undergrad at UM-Ann Arbor. I did my time huddled with drunk students who are turn around and talk to each other more than watch the game. I made my way down to row 18 my senior year only to get put back up at row 80 my first year of grad school amongst more obnoxious people. They try to keep us Flint folk as far away from the camera as possible. I show up AT LEAST 30 minutes early, so now we all can finally be rewarded.
can't believe this thread is never ending. This isn't that huge of a deal. I have a real hard time believing that without the guaruntee of good seats that students are going to get there even EARLIER.
the jackass drunken frat girls and sororiety whores who couldn't be bothered to get there 5mins before the band begins won't suddenly be willing to get here hours before.
it sucks that upperclassmen lose out and can't get grandfathered in, but students now have a choice to make, rather than being entitled to have the cake and drink it too. that's all this is
I think this move is absolutely fantastic. I also think the reason the current students are so upset by it (at least in this thread) is because the students are being held ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. You no show up for games.....you no get assaigned seats. And like it's been said by a lot of people before me this is a relatively new occurance (students not showing up) and I'm so glad the Athletic Department did something about it.
When I was in school (and a frat btw) from 1978-81 we somehow managed to balance the rigors of academic life, partying AND we made it to the games. On time.
Imagine that.
for all three years I've had student tickets. What am I being held accountable for exactly?
Individually nothing. Obviously you weren't part of the problem but speaking as someone who has attended almost all home games from 1978 on I can tell you that the empty seats in the student section is a VERY new occurance. And it's not like the academic standards at Michigan has changed a lot in the past 35 years so if students could somehow manage to attend classes AND hook up with girls AND party AND attend the games why couldnt this group? So the accountability was spread over an entire student body and you were collateral damage to the sollution.
If your fellow students had followed your lead and headed the warnings from the athletic department over the past year or so you'd be enjoying seats on the 40 yard line like I did. And I'm sorry you arent given your attendance and support.
But if you're upset over the change look in the classroom and the other students if you want to see the problem. Be mad at them.
Now I am doubly mad at them. And come football season, when those same people who didn't show up to games on time are cutting in front of me as I stand outside for six hours in the freezing cold, just standing there and waiting, unable to tailgate or socialize with my non-student friends and relatives, I will be triply and quadruply mad at them. That doesn't mean I still can't be mad at Dave Brandon for instituting this asinine policy.
Well you probably wouldn't think it was absolutely fantastic if you had spent 7 years at Michigan and now have to wait 3 hours in line to get comparable seats.
Is the cross you're bearing too heavy little buddy? You're kinda spazzing
Huh? I'm not spazzing at all. I'm a little pissed because after 7 years of slowly moving up, it all counts for nothing. But it's not that big of a deal, and I'm not that upset by it.
No, students are mad becuase us rising seniors have had shit seats for 3 seasons, spent hundreds of dollars on tickets, thousands of dollars on tuition, and waited patiently for our turn to have good seats. And now its all for naught as any freshman now has equal opportunity to have the seats that we have waited for.
That's why we're mad.
I get why you're mad. I don't think you guys understand why we alumns are NOT mad.
This is why....
Wow the alums make more noise about this than they did all last season in the stands...
Seriously. The alums are what make Michigan Stadium the pathetically quiet venue that it is despite having the largest crowd in the country.
Sadly you are right. Last season, my first as a general season ticket holder, I got complaints for both standing and cheering too loud when we were on defense. section 40 sucks balls.
And us students understand that too. Its just that we can't really do anything about it since the students in this thread are the students in that picture. We can't be responsible for getting everyone there on time. This is like the teacher getting mad at the A student for the other students doing poorly. The A student might be able to help a couple other kids out, but there is no way he can save the whole class.
They should learn from the basketball experience. They need to have a process to address some of the key issues. For basketball line cutting, seat saving, and drinking in line are major problems. The AD has done little to stop it. The seating saving problem will be worse in Michigan Stadium. In fact I assume it will become standard protocal for greek life.
I hang out with probably some of the most intense Michigan basketball fans. We manage to get front row bleechers every game. We probably will be some of the first people in the Big House under this policy. We are the type of people that will benefit from this policy. Yet almost all my friends hate the policy (including the freshmen). Why? It isn't just about drinking and tailgating. Most of us are upset because now football will basically be a massive time drain. We already spend insane amounts of time waiting for basketball games. It just isn't fun to wait 7+ hours in a line.
I'm fairly certain that nobody here in favor of this policy, which includes virtually all the mods, had to go through the harrowing experience that was the Ohio basketball game. I haven't missed or been late to a basketball game the past three years but I didn't get in the Maize Rage for that one because I had class until 4:00pm and by the time I got there at 4:20 there were already over 1500 people ahead of me. And then we had to wait for 4 hours inside a disgusting smelly tent with a bunch of drunk idiots, while watching numerous people cut in line claiming that they were seriously, totally there ahead of time, but just had to leave to go to the bathroom. try getting some studying done when you're so crammed you can't even move your arms... then we were nearly trampled when the DJ thought it'd be a good idea to yell "the gates... are... open!!!" and everyone surged forward, knocked down the barriers, and countless people from the back beat their way to the front as bodies flew everywhere
Under the old policy i probably would have had sideline seats in the first 30 rows for the Ohio game. And I would have showed up an hour early just like I have for every game the past three years. Under general seating, who knows? Maybe I'll still be able to show up an hour early before games and get those same seats but who knows? At the beginning of this year I wouldn't have thought 1,000+ students would show up before noon on a Tuesday for the Ohio basketball game. Excuse me if I'm a little upset at Dave Brandon's decision.
I hope that students who are lining up for Maize Rage seats realize that, like Second-quarter arrivals in football, theirs is a relatively new phenomenon.
Our Athletic Department is losing a lot of money, on Maize Rage seats. At market rates (on the opposite sideline), those seats would command something like $1000 per seat PSD's. Available mostly to super-elite-level Victors Club Points earners, who got that way by even larger donations. That is, before additionally paying ticket prices roughly three times what students pay.
So yeah. Line up for the Maize Rage section. Knock yourselves out. Yell and scream. Jump around. That's what you're supposed to do. It's what the rest are paying for you to do. You are standing on some rather expensive real estate.
The more prominent the student section and the more it contributes to the atmosphere, the more they can charge for other tickets since the experience is greater. Not enough to make up the difference, but some.
Or we could save about a half a million dollars and hire the Lords of Gravity to do their trampoline slam-dunk halftime show.
More students need to be like Lloyd Brady.
The dumbest thing about this idea is that it won't do a damn thing for getting people to show up early. The drunk sophomore sorority girl who comes 20 mnutes late the game isn't suddenty going to suddenly discover a new love for Michigan football and be super concerned about getting a seat close to the field. The people show up late are the people who don't care much about football. Having GA seating isn't going to make them care more about football. I guarantee you we will see the exact same problems.
I agree that the some of the same problems aren't going to be rectified, but we also don't know to what end DB is working towards here.
If it's to fill the student section to capacity quicker, yes GA helps that. More people who care about the game but may not feel inclined to get to the game early in previous years are more inclined to get the game earlier to get seats. No more 40% filled student sections at kickoff.
If it's to completely fill the student section, no GA won't necessarily help that. Like you said, not everyone is going to automatically make it to the game on time. Some people may not even show up because they're so late. Some student ticketholders who were "eh" about the games before are still going to be "eh" now.
Part of me thinks that DB wants to see the student section fill up quickly with those students who actually show up for the games, just as every other seat does, and then see if the remaining students actually fill the entire section. If not, make the student section smaller. There are students who don't really care about football, you say? Great. Give their tickets to alumni and friends that do.
I'd be fine with cutting the student section. It's been about 3k too big for years.
I like this for a couple of reasons that benefit me personally.
1. Ticketholders driving in from Flint and Dearborn who probably weren't going to get totally hammered can be rewarded for already driving in early to find a parking spot.
2. Isolated single tickets like mine are more useful as GA than they were previously, as it's easier to hook up with friends already down there or plan something on the fly. It's also theoretically easier to sell off a ticket for a game I can't get to.
As much as I thought I'd hate the GA tickets for Hockey last year, it didn't affect me simply because I was getting there an hour before puck drop anyway. The tickets tied to our m-card was the more irritating part of that change.
What an arrogant, bitter old asshole with an enormous Napoleon complex.
You have no idea who I am or what I do, but sure, I'm entitled. Your hiring process must be hilarious.
I show plenty of deference to people with experience, but usually, their pearls of wisdom are a little more sophisticated than labeling an entire group of people "whiny little bitches."
You sound like a prick in, like, all of your posts.
Yup, only the current generation has jerks and idiots. Can't think of any in the past...
I realize it's become quite popular among middle-aged men to bag on younger generations in an effort to assert fake superiority, but if you're going to be a douchebag, at least bring some facts to the table.
You graduated in 2000, a year that saw a 31-year low for unemployment, and your generation responded by leaving us the biggest pile of economic shit in about 80 years. But hey, that's nothing compared to the revolution of anti-anxiety drugs, right!? Oh wait, Xanax has been around since the 1970s. You couldn't even get that one right.
"The millenial generation is the first to use it as a crutch when the slightest stress occurs." Any source for this claim, or is this just another one of your own brilliant insights? Hey, while your searching, you can also look up what generation you're a part of.
Yes, this article is about the overdiagnoses of GAD. It doesn't say anything about Xanax, and it doesn't say anything about younger generations.
I'm not even trying to be a dick, but are you actually reading the articles that you're posting? The above article is about how children and adolescents are becoming more anxious and depressed despite unchanged diagnostic criteria. It in no way supports your argument that young Americans are increasingly "taking the easy way out" or using xanax as "a crutch when the slightest stress occurs." If anything, the article directly contradicts your claim by asserting that young people are legitimately enduring more anxiety and depression and that there may be socially explainable reasons.
It seems like you just have a problem with the diagnostic criteria. I'm not sure how that can be blamed on the people being diagnosed. Finally, this article isn't even a comparative analysis. It says nothing about the rates of diagnosis in people of your generation.
As a Syracuse student (yeah, the Final Four was hell for me) I have to say general admission is the way to go, shitty fans get shitty seats for the most part and people who actually want to get great seats earn them by getting there early.
Man, some of the doomsday scenarios being suggested are quite hysterical. Nobody's going to be camping out for a fortnight for anything. Come on.
However, I don't think the AD has thought this through entirely, as no details were given on how gameday is going to work. I suppose they have some time to figure this out, but just letting it be anarchy outside the gates until 10 AM while the stadium staff looks on through the fence is going to backfire too. I would personally prefer "blocks" of GA sections assigned by seniority to give people a slightly better chance of going where they want to go rather than just letting every student in at once.
The people who want to be in the 5th row in 2013 are the exact same people who wanted it in 2012. They were already there at 10 AM.
Also, to complete a thought I had started about Hockey, the worst offense to the "premium" section at Yost was not GA tickets (we were all there early anyway) or the M-Card (which was silly and just made transferring tickets more cumbersome), but rather the elimination of about 4 rows worth of space in the section to be given to... nobody. It would have been moderately less annoying had they put wheelchair seating or even super rich jerks there, but they carved out a huge chunk of the section and stuck 3 folding chairs in it for the American Red Cross volunteers. No offense to those guys, but what the hell?
They actually did this for the Final Four games this year. Student seating was general admission, but it had blocks of seating. There were plenty of problems with how it worked, but those were more administrative. I think this system would work much better than the currently proposed one. Most people still get there early and they can move around within their area
Was AWFUL. Had my front row seat become 4th row after a bunch of guys jumped in front of it cause there was space. Intoxicated and all, they refused to move and security wouldn't kick them out.
Entitled students is the problem here, and a GA policy isn't going to fix that.
They were students in Group E who went to no more than 7 basketball games, so they should've been in the way back. What's keeping that from happening again?
Going to happen whether you have full general admission or sectioned general admission, but at least you would be guaranteed to be in the front portion. It's going to be complete chaos
They should make it all GA so the stodgy old grandpas who contribute nothing to the game atmosphere can't just waltz in from their RVs 10 mins before kickoff.
Actually, this demographic might just be MGoBlog seeing these comments.
Are we going from "Some students are showing up late" to "Many students aren't even coming because fuck these prices and general admission". Face it. It's still college. Not everyone is a football fan. Many just go for the tailgates and wander on to the game.
...and your description of the problem suggests the solution. The solution is not General Admission.
The solution is to cut down sharply on the number of student tickets, until we see the student sections filling up entirely and on time with hard-core supporters. Make tickets expensive enough that no student would let one go unused. Keep assigned seating, and enforce that assigned seating.
And (I'd like to think that this is technologically possible) award student-seating priority based upon how early each ticket is processed into the Stadium. So if you want the best seats (Section 25; lower rows if that is what you want; etc.) you earn that priority by showing up early for all of the home games in the previous season.
this thread has desolved into a convo b/t Drunk Uncle and The Girl You Wish You Hadn't Started a Conversation With at a party.
Which one do I get to be?
You know, it's ridiculous that people are paying just to be on the WAITING LIST for season tickets. And students aren't even showing up.....when they have season tix at a discount price....
Since there's so much opposition to either have all assigned seats or having all GA
Isn't the best solution is look at what other schools did?
As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are examples of Wisconsin, Alabama and Penn State, where seniority/credits/contribution to the University (e.g. glee club/ other athletic teams, volunteers, student organizations) determine the section, or the ability to choose the section, for the student.
On the other hand, within that block (say 20-30 rows), then you have GA within that section.
There are multiple downsides with a full GA, and a few posters of this thread act like going full GA will solve everything and "punish those entitled students".
Isn't it better if we can combine a point system (e.g. MCard swipe to track attendance/time), with other factors (credits, class standing, being a member of glee club/solar car team/swimming team etc) to let students choose which block they want to apply for when they buy tickets.
Then go GA for those sections when they arrive?
(In addition, this rewards the students by their contribution, in that they might prefer a seat more towards end zone/midfield, where full GA have no control of that. Some might prefer to get a seat in the first few rows at the corner to interact with players after a victory, others might prefer a good view from rows 30-50 closer to midfield. A full GA, or assigned seats, does not offer that flexibility)
Then say 15 minutes before/after kickoff, if a certain block is not full, maybe an usher can hold up a sign to indicate to other students ppl are free to move to that block?
I know there are flaws to everything and 'm just throwing ideas out there, and it does take more resources to get a system in place. But at least this can eliminate the early lining up problem stated by some here, for a full GA, and also preserving some sort of seniority and recognizing student contributions on campus. But it also ensures people have to get there early to get a good seat within their block, or risk losing their assigned block if they are like 15 minutes late (or whatever cutoff time is for ppl to move freely between blocks). This makes sure within say 10 minutes of kickoff, all the "good seats" should be filled up, and people who do care, will show up early, avoiding the disastrous scenarios that we saw in the pictures with 30-50% empty.
i still think this is much better than the current debate of having all assigned seats, or acting like Full GA is the solution (if it is, try doing it for the entire stadium, like the spring game - o right, even that the recruits/parents and other VIP get a better section)
Its funny how time changes us. When I was younger I would have probably been upset by this, but now that I'm 30 I'm completely in support of it. It's embarrassing to have the student section that empty at the beginning of the game.
prices have jumped nearly 50%, but I think I understand their reasoning. Raising the prices should reduce the number of students purchasing tickets. Assuming students place more importance on things they enjoy, the more dedicated student fans will purchase tickets at a higher percentage than the lesser student fans. A smaller student section that is packed is better than a large one with empty seats. Then the seats freed up by lack of student demand can be sold at full price in those four game packs. I don't have a problem with this.
the majority of whom are spending their waking hours partying on their parents' dime while driving the Escalade their daddy bought them will still be able to buy tickets... whereas the "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps working their way through college" cohort will be left to pay for the jacked up tab by themselves
The student section has been de facto GA going back as far as I can remember. Making it de jure GA doesn't seem to be all that big a deal.
What happens to them?
Honestly, we're going to see the upper portions of each section empty, with the few last row fanatics sitting up in Row 92 (or whatever it is), and a whole lotta space in between.
The problem I see is that a certain percentage of students miss a game. If it's 15% or 20%, how does the AD determine that student can't buy tickets the following year?
As stated, this may fill the first few rows (10-15) by kick-off, with mostly full up to the portals at the same time, but virtually empty above them.
To my mind, football Saturdays are a significant part of the college student experience, and every student should/will get the opportunity to buy tickets. Maybe the raised prices will cull the fence sitter from ordering tickets. Who knows...
Finally, it'll be interesting to see what comes into the email from the AD in late July, when they finally know how many non-renewals took place. I'm expecting there will be season ticket packages avaialable at that time.
1. people who are completely unaffected by it (i.e. most of the people on this blog)
2. students who didn't try to get in line early for the Ohio bball game this year
But see I think you're wrong when you say that alumns are "unaffected by it". Seeing the student section half full is goddamn embarrasing and it bothers the hell out of me to shell out big bucks for my annual "donation" so I can then shell out bigh bucks for tickets, drive three hours one way from Cleveland and back again only to realize that the people who only have to drag their ass in from West Quad and practically get the seats for free cant seem to make it on time. And if bothers me more that those same students, because they ARE young and loud and enthusiastic dont realize what a tremendous positve influence they can have on the team and when they blow games off. It still gives me chills when I think about Kovacs last year during the coin flip at the Northwestern game when he pointed down at the student section and said "we want to play down there".
Everyone in the fucking building knew why. Damn it....show up and help them!
Aaaaaand /thread
Good job mGrowOld.
Let's see, we have on the one hand, a mild psychological discomfort experienced by alums who have to look at a partly empty student section for the first half of the 1st quarter of the Purdue/Illinois games (note: the student section was packed well before kickoff for UTL, Ohio 2011, and MSU 2012). Oh dear, the horror!
In order to spare yourself the unspeakable tragedy of having to look such an abomination, you believe it's righteous and just to say "sucks to be you!" to all the rising seniors who showed up on time to every game over the past three years (and had lousy endzone seats for the first two) and force them to have to arrive to the stadium at the crack of down and wait 6+ hours to be able to get sideline seats, not to mention having to deal with assholes and line cutters.
Perhaps since you feel so strongly about the siutation you'd be willing to forego your tailgating traditions and join in line at 5:00am. We can stand and chat about how awful that 1/4 empty student section looked for the next six hours.
Yes, I realize alumns have to dish out cash to get tickets whereas students get them at a discount (actually our discount is much less than the one you got - we now pay over $42 per game). But this is how it has worked for decades. You got to take advantage of it during your four years here, and now you're saying that today's crop of students, even the ones who show up an hour early to every game, shouldn't be allowed to have the Michigan gameday experience without waiting in line for 6 hours?
For those of you scoffing at the possiblity that students will have to arrive 6+ hours early to get those row 30, section 26 seats for the big games... how can you possibly argue that that's not going to happen? Like I have mentioned dozens of times, at the Ohio bball game this year I arrived at Crisler at 4:20pm (for a 9:00pm game) in 30 degree weather (snowing), and yet there were still 1500-2000 people who were already there. I'd say it's a pretty good estimate to say that there are 5x as many student football ticket holders (probably more actually) than bball season ticket holders, so it's just math. There WILL be over 10,000 people in line for the Ohio game at 8:00am.
Please put yourself in my situation and ask yourself how you'd feel if suddenly your senior year you were put in this situation.
That's just not true....
Apparently it's a problem at big, non-early games too.
For the 3:30 p.m. kickoff against Michigan State on Oct. 20, there were 3,500 no-shows, Brandon said. And, another 1,000 students came in and validated their tickets to re-sell, bringing the total to 4,500 no-shows.r
And it showed.
Without even getting into basketball, which had a lot of the same problems. There might have been a line for Ohio State, but for games like Arkansas there were multiple student sections empty at the top.
The question is- would you even have a problem with this if you WEREN'T a senior?
How can you use attendance numbers from last year's football season to tell us what it going to happen in an entirely different season and under an entirely different ticket system? The point he was trying to make was that a TON of people are going to have to spend a TON of their time waiting, when they would have shown up on time.
And just an fyi. The Arkansas bball game was not filled, but there were still a bunch of students that were there hours early. These are your loyal fans that are spending that time waiting and NOT the people who don't show up. So who gets hurt? I think you can make a strong case the people that suffer the most are those that wait all that time
That wasn't true. And that's why I can use last year's info.
And yes, there were students in the bottom section. There was also three sections in the upper deck for students that had a total of ten people in them. And I'd say the people who are really hurt are not the people who waited for good seats for Arkansas, but those who wanted to buy tickets and go to the game, but couldn't because it was sold out but littered with empty seats.
considering the average was purported to be somewhere around 5000. If that's the case then it seems the problem is mostly due to some cohort of ~3500 students who just don't show up to any games at all. i'd say there's a pretty simple solution to that. don't let them get tickets the next year.
as for the bball games...here is a picture i took about 10 minutes into the first half of the NC State (!!!) game


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Girls Soccer
Class AAA Playoffs
Goals: Bell, Carter, Root. Notes: First round. Next: James Island visits St. James on Wednesday.
Boys Soccer
SCISA Class AAA
Goals: Richards 2, Ennis, Grice, Bergman. Notes: Quarterfinal matchup. Next: Porter-Gaud at Cardinal Newman on Wednesday.
NORTHWOOD ACADEMY 3, HILTON HEAD CHRISTIAN 0 SCISA Class AAA
Goals: Beaver, Craven, Rumble. Notes: Ellison recorded shutout in quarterfinal matchup. Next: Northwood Academy will face Cathedral Academy/Oakbrook Prep winner on Wednesday. Location and time TBA.
South Aiken 288, Ashley Ridge 292, Wando 306, Lexington 312, West Florence 315, Summerville 315, Fort Dorchester 316, Sumter 316, Bluffton 316, North Augusta 317, West Ashley 317, Carolina Forest 318, Aiken 320, Conway 336, Stratford 350, Cane Bay 388
Class AAAA Playoffs
Medalist: Jake Carter (South Aiken) 67. Notes: Lower State championship, top eight advance to state tournament in Greenville next week. Fort Dorchester, Sumter advance in playoff with Bluffton.
Today's Schedule
Girls soccer
Class AAA
Pinewood Prep at Cardinal Newman/Heathwood
Hilton Head Christian at Ben Lippen
Hammond at Porter-Gaud
Ashley Hall at Cardinal Newman
Class AA-A
Spartanburg Day at The King's Academy
St. Andrew's at Lowcountry Prep
Bible Baptist at Oakbrook Prep
Class AAA
Laurence Manning at Hammond
Hilton Head Prep at Wilson Hall
Class AA
Thomas Heyward at Williamsburg Academy
Calhoun Academy at Holly Hill Academy
Class A
W.W. King at Laurens Academy
Clarendon Hall at Patrick Henry
High School League
Boys soccer
Lower State
Class AAAA
Richland Northeast at South Aiken
Summerville at Stratford
Lexington at South Florence
Cane Bay at Beaufort
Bluffton at Wando
Dutch Fork at West Florence
Carolina Forest at Fort Dorchester
Spring Valley at Aiken
Class AAA
Airport at Hilton Head
Lakewood at Myrtle Beach
Hanahan at Brookland-Cayce
St. James at Crestwood
Marlboro County at Socastee
Swansea at James Island
Wilson at Hartsville
Class AA
Calhoun County at Academic Magnet
Wade Hampton at Battery Creek
Lake City at Barnwell
Woodland at Silver Bluff
Loris at Waccamaw
Andrews at Marion
Bamberg-Ehrhardt at Ridgeland-Hardeeville
Aynor at Bishop England
Class A
Denmark-Olar at Fox Creek
Note: Blackville-Hilda, Charleston Charter, Ridge Spring-Monetta, St. John's, Military Magnet, North and Branchville received first-round byes.
Boys tennis
Class AAAA
Aiken at South Aiken
Lexington at Wando
Class AAA
Brookland-Cayce at Hilton Head
Myrtle Beach at Socastee
Class AA-A
Academic Magnet at Bishop England
Boys golf
Class A state championship at Pine Crest Golf Club, Bluffton


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I LooooOoOoOoove Digimon! I'm a true fan..
Season 1 +2 are the best ones. Recently I've downloaded the first two season and now I'm gonna rewatch them in a stroke! Digi Marathon :$
This anime has one of the best openings of all time (German version). If anybody is interested in talking about Digimon just send a Private Message ;)


text:
Americans fill more than 53 million prescriptions for sleep aids annually, and sleep and stress supplement sales rose to $116 million this year. But the pharmaceuticals and natural remedies we seek out may be just the ones our bodies don't need. Supplement experts Roy Upton and Adam Stark explained why at this month's Natural Products Expo East.
Insomnia and stress. Stress and insomnia. Which came first? For me, the question often boils down to: Is it work, or just parenthood? Considering how much I and other Americans increasingly spend on drugs and supplements to fix sleep and decrease stress, a better question might be: How are we missing the mark? In fact, Americans fill more than 53 million prescriptions for sleep aids annually; and according to SPINS data, sleep and stress supplement sales rose to $116 million this year.
At this month's Natural Products Expo East, I moderated Navigating Sleep and Stress Supplements, an education session for retailers whose customers stumble through their doors daily, looking for a magic pill to halt the downward spiral. What I learned is that aside from the obvious—addiction to electronics, light pollution, economy woes, etc, etc—the types of remedies we seek out may be just the ones our bodies don't need.
For example, it makes sense that if you're wound up or have chronic insomnia you need a chill pill—a relaxing herb such as passionflower or valerian, or supplemental magnesium. But according to herbalist Roy Upton, this often misses the deeper issue. "From a TCM [traditional Chinese medicine] perspective, if a person has deficiencies underlying insomnia, then that person might need a tonic—even one associated with increased energy—to help them sleep." The body won't turn off until it knows it's safe to do so, he explained.
Upton recommends shen tonics such as rishi mushroom (also good for immunity), mugwort, and albizia (aka "flower of happiness") for those situations. That's not to say that some people don't need to just relax, period, in which case bupleurum and peony combo, valerian, kava, or hops (yes, even occasionally in the form of Guinness, he says) are a few go-to remedies.
And how to survive if you simply can't get the recommended eight hours of shut-eye? "Adaptogens," says retailer and supplement expert Adam Stark. My personal favorite is rhodiola; Stark also recommends ginseng, eleuthero, and ashwagandha. There are a number of excellent adaptogen combo remedies out there, marketed for energy or adrenal support.
So is my energy crisis caused by lack of sleep, or is my sleep crisis caused by a deeper lack of energy? Good question. I might have to sleep on that one.


text:
|Episode Description
|Saturday, Jan 19, 2013 - 3:30 PM
"Guam - Where East Meets West"
Warm, turquoise waters, lush jungles, intriguing island culture, cosmopolitan shopping and a plethora of historical sites await the traveler that makes the trek to Guam. The island is an endearing mix of Asia, 1960's America and exotic Pacific island. Hosts Julie Conover and Mark Jennings venture into the little traveled parts of the island to swim in waterfalls, cha cha with the locals at the Wednesday night fiesta, and meet a refreshing group of teenagers passionate about preserving their Chamorro heritage. D
|More on PLUS (PT)
|No upcoming shows in database


text:
RUTHVEN - Graettinger-Terril/Ruthven-Ayrshire played a good game against visiting Trinity Christian on Friday, but not quite good enough.
The visitors left town with a 54-46 victory.
"We actually played one of our better games as far as execution of things goes," said GTRA coach Todd Hough. "We just struggled to put the ball in the basket at times."
GTRA led 13-12 after one quarter, but trailed 23-20 at halftime and 41-32 after three quarters.
Brooke Hoffman led GTRA with 18 points, six rebounds, three steals and two assists.
Grace Skattebo had 11 points, 10 rebounds and two assists.
Lauren Flaharty finished with nine points and four steals. Morgan McGrauth had five points and Emily Moran had three. Also Marly Bakken had 12 rebounds.
GTRA (5-13 overall, 3-5 in the conference) is at Lake Mills today.


text:
App Shopper app: gone forever?
Hey, I know this is for games but AppShopper is all i use for game deals and i heard it got removed from the app store but its still working on my fone? is it not going to work on my fone soon?! if its true that really sucks
Last edited by ChrisJT; 12-18-2012 at 07:37 PM.


text:
* Copyright (c) OSGi Alliance (2011). All Rights Reserved.
* Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (the "License");
* you may not use this file except in compliance with the License.
* You may obtain a copy of the License at
* http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
* Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing, software
* distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS IS" BASIS,
* WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or implied.
* See the License for the specific language governing permissions and
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package org.osgi.service.component.annotations;


text:
8:00 pm
Broadway Or Bust "And The Winner Is ..." The show at New York's Minskoff Theatre is about to begin. During the first half of the show all 60 finalists perform in ensemble with judges giving scores to the leading performers based on the group performances and individual medleys. Then, the top six contenders perform their solos, leading to the judge's announcement of the male and female who take home the Jimmy Awards.G
9:00 pm
Masterpiece Mystery! "Wallander, Series III - Before The Frost" Wallander is on the trail of an escapee and serial arsonist from a psychiatric hospital, when he is visited by Anna, an old friend of Linda, his estranged daughter. As arson attacks occur, Anna appears to be connected in some way. Wallander must reconcile with Linda and join forces to find Anna at all costs.G
10:30 pm
New Tricks Lane indulges his obsession with fishing when UCOS investigates the case of two boys abducted from a fishing lake in 1979. The boys escaped but the kidnapper was not found. Lane thinks the fishing lake, the 1979 abduction and a recent spate of snatches are related.G
11:30 pm
Equitrekking Adventures "Kentucky" In a state well known for its horses, host Darley Newman discovers wildflowers, a historic mill site and rolling green hills on the trails at Shaker Village.G


text:
Bonnie Lutterbeck, 54
Bonnie (Ayers) Lutterbeck, 54, of St. Marys, died at 5:21 p.m. Friday, Aug. 16, 2013, at her parent's home.
She was born Feb. 10, 1959, in Decatur, Ind., to Jeanette (Winkler) and Jim Ayers, who survive in St. Marys.
Also surviving are two sons, Jason Stienecker, of Wapakoneta, and Corey Lutterbeck, of St. Marys; and a daughter, Amber Lutterbeck, of St. Marys.
Services are at 10:30 a.m. Wednesday at Cisco Funeral Home in St. Marys, with the Revs. Steve Weatherly and Tim Smith officiating. Burial is to follow at Resthaven Memory Gardens in St. Marys.
Friends may call from 2 to 8 p.m. Tuesday at the funeral home.
Contributions may be given to the American Cancer Association or Grand Lake Hospice.
Condolences may be expressed at ciscofuneralhome.com.


text: A collection of beautiful & erotic girls from Arab countries, North Africa, Caucasus, Central Asia, etc. IMPORTANT: This blog contains NO content which can be classified as porn (if you want it, go elsewhere). Anyway, if you have issue with anything posted here, you may contact us using the comment form.


text:
David Cameron has been overheard criticising footballer John Terry during the G8 summit, according to off-mic comments overheard by those sleuths over at ITV News.
Speaking to German chancellor Angela Merkel ahead of the Champions League final in Munich on Saturday evening, the prime minister was heard saying it was "good" he was not playing for Chelsea in the match.
ITV, who overheard the PM, picked up Cameron saying:
Merkel: John Terry is not there..
Cameron: That's good
Merkel: Don't you like him?
The prime minister then appears to indicate Terry has said some "bad things". Terry has been charged and is due to stand trial after allegedly racially abusing Anton Ferdinand.
This gaffe might have made the PM more popular - with tweeters roundly suggesting it could even boost his poll ratings. See below for a selection of the best comments.


text: People with Parkinson's disease and their families are welcome to attend the Parkinson's Support Group Meeting. It will be held on Thursday, June 13, 2013 from 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. in Classroom 10 at Covenant Medical Center, 3421 West 9th Street, Waterloo. Use the Women's and Outpatient Center Entrance and take the elevator to 4th floor. Speaker Gayle Boekep, Program Manager with Telecommunications Access Iowa, will discuss barrier-free telephones. Being able to communicate, even if you have some hearing loss or speech impairment, is invaluable. Today it is easier than ever before, thanks to new technology advancements in telephones and Telecommunications Access Iowa, a program of the Iowa Utilities Board. People with Parkinson's or any movement disorders, their family, friends and anyone interested in learning more about these disorders is welcome to attend. Please call Terry Hertges 319-239-6865 if you have questions.


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hopefully before they slash and burn all that the rest of us work hard to achieve...
one thing is clear about republicans, they'll back any strategy that fucks the people over...
GOP is not pro-capitalist
this is middle america fighting for subsidies for their products and crying how independent they are. they have no problems subsidizing business that benefits them like oil and corn
Not necessarily. Almost every economist – left or right – suggests that the right answer is to levy a carbon tax. That way capitalism kicks in are reduces greenhouse gasses in a more efficient manner then government subsidies.
It has nothing to do with picking winners and losers.
It never did.
It's always been about entrenched interests maintaining the status quo.
Interestingly, the entrenched interests in this case aren't gas/oil companies,
they already started diversifying years ago, it's the power utilities who are resistant to the change.
It has nothing to do with picking winners and losers. It never did.
It's always been about entrenched interests maintaining the status quo. Interestingly, the entrenched interests in this case aren't gas/oil companies, they already started diversifying years ago, it's the power utilities who are resistant to the change.
oh i'm aware. sometimes i forget sarcasm doesn't translate well on the interwebs
in my estimation, we should be pushing for research and investment in alternative fuel and energy tech. the U.S. should be at the forefront, creating new industries and manufacturing jobs in the process. of course, the current status quo and current companies have a problem with losing their "privileged" status, and their political proxies foist it off as "picking winners and losers".
Did you even read the article you linked to? Most of those subsidies take the form of things like allowing corporations to deduct expenses from their taxes (much like any other business). One of the supposed subsidies to the oil and gas industry cited in the report is government heating assistance for the poor.
Paragraphs make text readable. You giant paragraph is completely unreadable. Please write in such a way that people can even have an opportunity to read you.
The Internet
The GOP allowed solar -production- to be kicked over to China. First, the solar companies were complaining about Chinese intrusion attempts, then China started dumping panels on our shores for cheaper than it cost US makers to buy the rare earths.
However, the split is going along two lines of two GOP platforms. Dislike for government versus respect for Big Oil/Big Coal. Solar allows people to be fairly independent [1].
Solar also scales well. One can have a one watt panel to keep a vent fan spinning on a RV's roof, or a multi-megawatt array powering a city like Austin.
Solar is also fairly easy to deploy. Got a clear line of sight to the south? Might as well slap a few panels up, add a grid-tie inverter, and have a lower power bill, or if in a more rural area, have the power feed into a battery bank for complete off-grid use, or even a combination of both with some outlets in a house on utility powers, others feeding from the batteries. Same thing if one has a carport. Might as well have the flat roof do something.
As for price, solar panel prices have gotten to a point where it becomes a "why not?" as opposed to a "why bother?" This is especially true in the RV industry.
[1]: Almost. Good luck having a modern building in the southern US without air conditioning unless one is content to deal with high humidity.
So long as China is willing to live in a toxic industrial hellzone and make various initially unprofitable moves, their prices for goods and labor will be too good for the free marketeers and slash 'n burn corporate reorg guys to say no to; but the nationalists and nativists will always be jumpy about it...
I've always thought the solution to this was rather simple.
Just require that anything imported into the US for consumption be produced under the same EPA rules as if they had been made here.
Want those cheap Chinese iPads? No problem, but they have to be made in China the same way they would have to be made here, no toxic dumping.
Companies might find it cheaper to bring back production than to ensure clean production overseas.
...where much of the government is Republican but a lot of the power on the grid comes from solar farms?
People here want solar. Like the article mentions, there was a vote this week to raise monthly costs of solar users here in AZ. The public utility wanted an increase of $50 - $100 per month and spent $3.7 million on an advertising and lobbying campaign (in addition to the money they always contribute to the entirely-Republican-staffed committee that regulates them). After the vote, regulators approved a $5 increase per month. People here realize that APS is trying to stifle solar, and this is arguably the best state in the country for solar production. People want solar, and the regulators understand that (despite being Republicans).
Quite the opposite, in fact. Libertarians tend to be socially liberal and financially conservative. They'd neither subsidize solar, or put road-blocks in its way.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mohandas K. Gandhi
Except that's attributed to Gandhi(who likely never said it at all), when it actually came from a American union leader, Nicholas Klein, who never actually won the strike he was pushing.
How many new coal plants were built last year?
Solar accounts for 0.17% of our electric production in this country, tripling it won't make any difference.
The numbers are not on solar's side. Electric production from fossil fuels is up more than 30% in the past 20 years, it isn't being replace by solar, demand is growing faster than solar panels are being installed.
I agree that pollution is bad, I agree that releasing tons of CO2 is probably bad (we don't know for sure, but I don't want to find out the hard way, better to play it safe and not burn it all)
My primary complaint is that people who talk about renewables simply are working from emotion and not from numbers and math. The math is not on renewables side, I'm sorry to say.
A billion people in the world are going to get access to AC and clean water over the next 50 years. It matters not what the USA and Europe do, our populations will be overwhelmed by China and India's use of coal in that time.
We need large scale power sources. Right now, the options are coal, oil, natural gas, and nuclear.
The sooner environmentalists get off the solar kick and focus on reality, the sooner we can replace fossil fuels with something else. (Which in this case is nuclear, since it is the only option left)
> Solar accounts for 0.17% of our electric production in this country, tripling it won't make any difference.
Is this counting only energy company production or people/companies reducing their consumption from the grid by augmenting it with solar? If so, how?
> The sooner environmentalists get off the solar kick and focus on reality, the sooner we can replace fossil fuels with something else. (Which in this case is nuclear, since it is the only option left)
There can be only one?
You assume the growth curve of solar is purely linear and will always be purely linear, and you're already wrong. There are knees in the curve. Those knees are system price points. Above $70,000 for an installation (a decade ago) and you don't get very many new installations. At $50,000 you get more. At $30,000, still more. At today's price of under $10,000 you get many more. Many many more. Projections are 2014 will be a record breaking year for new installations. Not only is the deployment of solar power accelerating, the rate of growth of deployment is also accelerating.
Solar photovoltaics are likely to follow a growth curve that looks like the adoption of LCD TVs. It will be exponential for some period of time, then abruptly level off as all the useful roofs owned by people with available capital are covered. That's a lot of roofs, and hundreds of gigawatts.
Because the story more or less proves (inspite of its hate mongering) that Viable wind and viable Solar can spring up with out Government picking winners.
There are at least 12 companies working on Micro and Mini Nuclear plants [world-nuclear.org], some of which can be trucked to a city, set into semi-buried location and trucked out again when their fuel or life is exhausted.
The clowns in Congress can't even keep the streets paved. Don't look to them for a solution to energy. The best you can hope for is that they do nothing and let industry develop viable solutions.
The only reason you subsidize renewable energy generation such as solar is to make it currently viable whereas otherwise it would not.
The only reason you make renewable energy generation currently viable is to jump start development.
The only reason you jump start development is if you want to be the one producing the technology or buying the technology.
There is also the matter that on a grand scale, infrastructure takes awhile to build, it isn't something you can just do overnight.
Anyway so long as the idea isn't that things like solar is going to solve all your energy issues because it will not. It is part of a generation mix. You can however increase its effectiveness and the percent used overall to help mitigate other energy related issues.
There is certainly a lot of political agenda polemic when it comes to energy, and this article is no different.
As Slashdot is theoretically geared toward engineers, having a hard look at the numbers involved is not an optional consideration. See here for Germany's story:
http://www.quora.com/Alternative-Energy/Should-other-nations-follow-Germanys-lead-on-promoting-solar-power-1?srid=ue54&share=1 [quora.com]
Solar is great for micro/local-level offsets in particularly sunny places, and it's good if you want to build a compound for the zombie apocalypse. As a key component of energy policy for the United States, it is not and has never been practical compared to wind or nuclear power.
Politicians in every party love being able to pick winners and losers. It's one of the perks of the jobs. People imagine solar as warm, fuzzy, and mother Earth friendly. If that were the case, Germany wouldn't have a bigger carbon footprint now than it did before it had the world's largest nameplate capacity of solar power production.
If you're concerned about global warming from burning fossil fuels, the only choice at the moment that satisfies all the requirements of most first world country's energy policy is nuclear. Nothing else comes close.
Many states can use the cheap solar hot water systems, costing $3-5k professionally installed, less than half that if you're not scared of plumbing. It's not all about generating electricity, spinning meters backwards or off-grid storage.
Some countries around the Mediterranean have laws that all buildings have to have solar systems to heat domestic water. They're different designs from ours, looking somewhat clunky and like the old USSR hodgepodge satellites, but they're effective.
Here in FL, every other cookie cutter house has a pool solar system, but very few have domestic hot water panels, even though they're cheaper and take up far less roof space, and save having to have the 50 gallon tank powered all day every day. I find this very bizarre.
Our house (2 adults, 2 kids) hot water is purely heated from the sun bar the 10-14 days of the year when I have to switch on the power to the tank due to extended cloud coverage. We also have pool panels, but to get the benefit of extending the pool usage period, we have to have the pool pump running a lot longer, which uses a fair amount of power.
I find this very bizarre.
I live in Phoenix. The only solar hot water heaters you see around here were put up 20 years ago when the politicians handed out rebates for installing them. Now, they're simply roof decorations. This, in an area where 20' of copper pipe on the roof is probably a good enough hot water heater 6 months of the year.
I have an electric hot water heater. The developer created a very nice niche for it - inside the air-conditioned portion of the house. So, any heat leakage from it needs to be carried away by my electric Air Conditioner.
I have an electric clothes dryer. In a very nice niche inside the air-conditioned portion of the house. So, for 8 months of the year, I use electricity to run the air conditioner to cool the air in my house, which then gets run into the dryer which uses a lot of electricity to heat it back up, and exhausts it outside - which draws more hot air back inside my house.
Don't talk to me about bizarre.
Their argument, as laid out by House Republicans and libertarian organs like the Cato Institute and Reason magazine, is that the federal government shouldn't 'pick winners and losers' in the energy markets
Okay. Step 1: Cancel all subsidies / tax breaks [thinkprogress.org] and tax loopholes for the Oil Companies. Sure they're *only* about $2-4 billion / year, but it's a start. (Note: Reason.com - slogan "Free Minds and Free Markets - thinks these are okay [reason.com]).
Just noting from the Think Progress article:
Last year, the five largest oil companies — BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, and ExxonMobil — earned $118 billion profit at a time when consumers paid record-high gas prices. This haul follows after a year the companies earned a record $137 billion profit.
If enough people start putting in solar arrays and going off grid and or feeding back to the grid it will undermine the electric operators.
Delivered electricity costs might very well go way up for traditional customers. Distribution is a high fixed overhead. Either you sell enough generation or your really screw a certain groups of customers with high fixed minimum charges.
Don't misunderstand I am opposed to doing anything to discourage people from going off grid, installing solar or selling back to the grid. I am also against doing anything specific to encourage it. Government should just stay out.
But consider this their could come a day when having reliable electricity available at your home means paying very high monthly fees to be connected to a grid with fewer and few customers, or being able to invest and maintain an solar array and some kind of storage bank, be it kinetic, capacitance, or chemical batteries. That might create some haves and have nots out of what has become a pretty universal condition presently.
The next thing you know some prick like Obama is going to be arguing for an individual grid connection mandate; because its only affordable if we all participate.
Federal grants are offered for... research into the recreation potential of interplanetary space travel for the culturally disadvantaged.


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Group Returns For Performance
ST. MARYS — A French Canadian musical group showcased their talents at a local college campus Monday night, and it will also be performing at a local senior center, as well as various other locations around the area.
For the second year in a row, Mauvais Sort is visiting this area and is holding multiple performances as part of the Ohio Arts Council's International Music and Performing Arts in Communities Tour (IMPACT).
Mauvais Sort held a free public performance at Wright State University Lake Campus Monday night, and the group will be holding another concert as part of IMPACT tour this evening at Otterbein Retirement Center.
"It's a pretty phenomenal of them to provide a performance of that caliber for free," Arts Place Collective Center Director Hope McKnight said.
According to a news release from Arts Place, Mauvais Sort's name translates from French to mean "to put a spell on someone." Mauvais Sort "has a musical style extremely hard to define, yet unique and proper to its generation."
The group combines "traditional lyrics with contemporary musical compositions or by mixing their own original stories with old, folk rhythms."
The group describes its genre as "folk 'n' roll."
"'Folk' for the inspiration, the foot stomping, the accordion, the fiddle and the guitar and 'roll' for the arrangements, the bass, the drum, the percussion and the energy," according to the release.
McKnight noted the group was what sparked her interest in Arts Place.
"Seeing them was one of my first impressions of the area — I was very impressed," McKnight
In addition to the performances at Wright State University Lake Campus and at Otterbein, the group will also be performing throughout Mercer and Auglaize counties as part of IMPACT.
"They are also doing some other things," McKnight said. "They will be performing in some area schools as part of an outreach program."
Monday afternoon, the group performed at Cridersville School, followed by the 7 p.m. free and public performance at the Lake Campus. Today's performances include a 1 p.m. performance at Fort Recovery Elementary School, followed by the 7 p.m. free and public performance at Otterbein. Wednesday will round out the performances with a 7 p.m. free and public performance at the St. Marys Community Public Library.
IMPACT was started by the Ohio Arts Council more than 11 years ago to help foster international understanding, community engagement and audience development in communities throughout Ohio, and it is sponsored by the Performing Arts Fund, a program of Arts Midwest funded in part by the National Endowment for the Arts with additional contributes from the General Mills Foundation and the Land O'Lakes Foundation. Support for the Mauvais Sort performances is provided by the College Community Arts.


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The wind is now providing about 17 percent of all the electricity used by Xcel Energy customers – more than four times the national average.
The future of wind power in Colorado, however, is uncertain as the U.S. Congress has failed to extend a key wind project tax credit and Xcel says it has all the renewable energy it needs to meet state requirements.
"Wind will be an important part of our energy mix," said Frank Prager, Xcel's vice president for environmental policy. But it has to become competitive on its own."
Juno, Fla.-based NextEra has been in the wind business since 1989 and with the Limon facility has built 10,000 megawatts of turbines in 19 states and four Canadian provinces.
It was after 2001 – when natural gas prices spiked and the technology became more efficient – that the wind market soared, said Michael O'Sullivan, a NextEra senior vice president.
NextEra is selling electricity to Xcel from its Limon wind farm at an average 3 cents a kilowatt-hour – competitive with coal or natural gas, O'Sullivan said.
That, however, includes the federal wind production tax credit of 2.2 cents for every kilowatt-hour – a subsidy set to expire, making it unavailable to new wind farms starting next year.
The Limon facility – the last of 17 Colorado wind farms that supply Xcel with power – just beat the deadline.
Colorado ranked sixth nationally in 2011 in wind-power generation – 9.2 percent – according to the American Wind Energy Association, a trade group.
Wind is going to have to get beyond the renewable energy standard and the production tax credit to have a future in Colorado, Xcel's Prager said. Wind is already valuable because it doesn't emit any air pollution and is a hedge against volatile fossil fuel prices, Prager said.
Pick up a copy of this week's Record for the whole story in the farm section.


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Discussion in 'The Bar' started by Hateman, Dec 7, 2012.
Great film.
If I tried really hard , I think I could do it.
Aye Aye Aye think I CAHN, ectually
Did I win?
High 5 warmth , now go get ur aye's checked
ba da BOOM siss
I thought it was good, there I go thinkin again , holy shinto DOH
no i can't. christopher walken neither


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Phil Jones was happy with his containing job on Cristiano Ronaldo during Manchester United's European clash with Real Madrid. United travelled to Santiago Bernabeu on Wednesday aware that the greatest threat to their UEFA Champions League ambitions would come from a familiar face.
Ronaldo, who spent six years at Old Trafford before leaving for Spain in 2009, boasts a remarkable scoring record at Real and United knew they had to shackle him if they were to keep the hosts quiet.
Sir Alex Ferguson suggested in the build-up to the game that Brazilian full-back Rafael would be charged with the tasked of tracking Ronaldo, but that responsibility ultimately fell to Jones. Ronaldo was able to power home a trademark header, hauling Real level in a game which ended 1-1, but Jones feels both he and United can be pleased with their efforts in the Spanish capital.
He said: "The gaffer said you've got to be wary of him and if he makes runs inside you've got to follow him.
"Once or twice he came off and it was a bit of a wake-up call, but I think we dealt with it well.
"All over the pitch we were superb defensively. It was about staying solid as a unit.
Source: team_talk


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Dec 3, 2013
By Seaira Christian-Daniels
Ohio University media students are collaborating with the Athens County Commission on Disabilities to celebrate the International Day of Persons with Disabilities from Dec. 3-4.
The festivities will kick off from 3 to 8 p.m. Tuesday in the Grover Center Atrium with the theme "Break Barriers, Open Doors: For an inclusive society and development for all."
During the Dec. 3 event, representatives from the Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine will be present with simulation booths that will help participants understand living with physical and mental disabilities.
In addition to the simulation, the event will feature several speakers from around campus and around the world. Scheduled speakers include Ohio State Rep. Debbie Phillips, Ohio University President Roderick McDavis, and other esteemed guests from the international community, who will speak via Skype.
On Wednesday, Dec. 4, there will be a movie screening concerning disability issues at the Athena from 7 to 9 p.m. The day will conclude with an international dance party immediately following the film.
Group spokesperson Beth Mishler says it's difficult to consider disabilities without having one, and that's what makes this event necessary.
"This is something that could happen to all of us at any given moment. I think recognizing that and taking the opportunity and the time to learn about that is important as a student and as a community," Mishler said.
All events are free and open to the public.


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Thanks, I'll check it out sometime soon. Do you have any recommendations for introductory reading about socialism?
About that forum, I should mention that it's predominantly apologists for the Stalin-era soviet union. So short-hand you could say there are a lot of outspoken Stalinists. And while it is a political debate forum, a lot of it is also dedicated to historical debates about the former East block and other socialist nations. I'm not entirely sure how interesting you will find it. Though it's worth a shot I guess.


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Review of the new movie.
Hey. Hey you. Have you heard of John Dies at the End? If you have, congratulations, you are probably like me and gain most of your knowledge from Cracked.com. If you haven't, I'm here to tell you how to feel about it. John Dies at the End, more commonly known as JDATE (and by commonly, I mean that a friend of mine refers to it as such because he's apparently not big on the Jewish dating scene), is a book by Cracked columnist David Wong. Semi-recently, a film of the same name based on the source material has been made and subsequently touring the film festival circuit in the United States.
I'm not going to go into too much detail with the synopsis, mostly because it's a batshit crazy ride and there's no point. As far as common elements are concerned, two buddies, Dave and John, accidentally (in Dave's case) or purposefully (John) get exposed to a drug called "soy sauce," provided to them by their local psychic Rastafarian. What ensues is a journey of madness that makes you question the nature of reality and sanity.
Cinematic adaptions of novels can be tough- there's a layer of detail and feeling in a narrative that can be hard to capture in a 93-minute movie. Furthermore, with the level of reality-bending and hallucination-induced action that occurs in the book, it's nigh impossible to tell the exact same story as Wong, with all of its tangents and side adventures. However, Wong tells a vivid- almost manic- tale in his book, and the movie makes a solid effort to capture that.
The catch when it comes to the source material is that the end of the book is a bit…abstract. I'm not going to spoil anything here, but suffice to say, once you finish reading, you're not quite sure what's happened- to Dave, to John, to yourself, to really anyone around you ever. I confess that I read the book maybe four years ago and don't have a solid memory of how exactly everything panned out, but I can tell you this much- the end of the movie was dissimilar in every way. While the movie's ending is probably more coherent (which is saying something, because it's still pretty unhinged), it lacks a certain je ne sais pa of the original. The movie digresses from the source material at a distinct point, and you can feel it. Everything falls a little flatter- the pacing, the dialogue, the plot- than it does in the first 2/3rds or so of the movie. Even a non-reader could probably pick up on this shift. This will probably only offend the most zealous of purists, and the rest of the movie drips with the unique and somewhat certifiable worldview of Wong's original work, but it is jarring to anyone simply trying to enjoy a movie.
Despite my qualms with the changed ending (again, not so much because they changed it, but because it so noticeably did not blend in with the rest of the film's tone), there are a lot of pros to this movie. The acting is surprisingly stellar. Paul Giamatti, of course, is the "big name" star of the film, though he isn't the main character. Those are Dave (Chase Williamson) and John (Rob Mayes). Both actors do a spot-on job with their characters; John is portrayed as a lovable but probably dangerous nutjob, while Dave is a cynic forced to confront unimaginable horrors in the midst of his disbelief. Even though everything around them is chaos, both the characters are believable. The acting in the back-up cast is just as solid- most notably Glynn Turman as the detective pursuing this strange case. The characters were well cast and a lot of the dialogue (from what I recall) is at least loosely based on Wong's work. Since his writing is what brought the book to life, the reflection of this in the dialogue is what really sells the movie.
Last but not least- the effects. Were they hokey? Yeah, kind of. For the fact that I'm pretty sure this film was made on a shoestring budget, they aren't that bad. It's hard to make truly terrifying monsters without China's GDP's worth of latex and paint. Plus their cheap, nimble, exploited little fingers to type all the CGI code. Don't expect to be wowed on this level, but accept instead that everything happening to these guys might be all in their heads anyway- who's to say what those kinds of projections would be like? Also, if you were wondering, there are a lot of tits at one point, so there's that.
Overall, this movie has most of the hallmarks of a cult classic- or at least a cult success. Will it ever have mass audiences and wide distribution? Realistically, no. But it's hilarious, and poignant, and at times downright creepy. These characteristics make it compelling and enjoyable for the right audience, but the particular way they are mixed lacks mass appeal. Looking around at my audience and making snap assumptions, I'd say it was mostly Cracked fans and stoners. (Yeah, these demographics probably have overlaps.) If you've read the novel and enjoyed it, the movie is definitely worth a watch. If wry, sarcastic humour combined with drug-induced psychosis is your thing (hey, it worked for Thomas Pynchon) then you'll also probably like it. If you're looking for a straight horror or comedy, though, try somewhere else.
P.S. no word yet on if/when this will be released everywhere (it's only been at Sundance, SXSW, TIFF, and Chicago Film Festival), but you can follow up here.


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You have to wonder if this is the reason he did not "fit" with the Jets and why he is not getting any attention in free agency. He was a terrific safety even under Rex. His lose to the defense has been significant and never replaced. I feel bad for him actually. Do people still really feel so negatively towards someone with a different sexual orientation? Not sure why people care.
HE made the personal decision that his football career would only be important UNTIL he started acting full time. Then it didn't matter. And even before that, he would give what effort he deemed to be ENOUGH.
Sherry has no one to blame but himself.
Last edited by Mainejet; 06-18-2013 at 01:04 PM.
The mens room at my job reeks like they're are selling egg sandwiches in there. With that said, I don't understand how another man could want that stench from another man to whiff up from their shorts. But hey, some people like another mans mud on their helmet.
Ugh...the smell makes me wanna gag....


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POD to miranova. I think some posters are addressing this as though there is a "right" and "wrong" answer. What some of us are saying is that the OP can do whatever she wants with her photos for whatever reason. She cannot, however, expect that not sharing will be well received. As some of us have stated, unless this was addressed before hand, it comes across as borderline rude to me. I take a lot of photos, and I think a lot of them turn out really well, especially of my daughter. I share them with everyone because I think they are great photos! I don't care whether people think, "Wow, TurtleDove is an amazing photographer." That's not the point to me - the point is to enjoy the image. I think what rubs me the wrong way in the OP is that she seems to want to be praised or something for the images she shoots, and that, to me, is weird on a trip with a friend. For me, I would want to share my best shots because it would be about the memory.
I have read every post and I still don't get it. This is a friend that you were close enough to travel with. A lot of the responses are about strangers, acquaintences, and family that take advantage or want professional services for free. I don't see how that applies here. Just like I'd drive a close friend to the airport or babysit for them or tutor their children, I wouldn't think twice about sharing any and all photos/recipes/ or other special skills with them. I wouldn't do these things for acquaintances or people who take advantage. I assume this is a reciprocal friendship where your friend does favors for you as well sometimes? I don't understand the insistence that the OP's view is not "wrong". No one is arguing right or wrong or that she has some kind of actual obligation to share the photos. But just as OP is entitled to keep the photos, her friend is entitled to find it odd. Just as I don't "have to" drive my friend to the airport, my friend can find it odd if I just flat out say no with no reason given when she has done favors for me in the past. This is a relationship, not a court of law. Nobody has to do anything, but I think it's a normal request among friends who have just traveled together.
You don't have to do anything. Of course you are allowed to withhold whatever you like. And your friend is allowed to have an opinion about it.
Where does "sharing" enter into this?.....Sharing oictures on FB or via email or printed out is one thing. This guy wanted all the raw pictures off her memory card. That's not "sharing."
Quote from: miranova on December 31, 2012, 12:13:09 PMYou don't have to do anything. Of course you are allowed to withhold whatever you like. And your friend is allowed to have an opinion about it.And the friend's history of taking credit for the OP's pictures doesn't enter into it at all for you? Or is the OP not allowed to have an opinion about that?
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The same simple idea is behind all those concepts: to modulize things. Start from wrapping code in functions, to OO, to MVC, this is all about modulization.
When the web application is no longer just a bunch of static pages, or something relatively static like shipping cart or a forum like this, it becomes too complex for things like CGI etc. Once again, people need to simplify what they are dealing with and the way they looking at the applicatin. MVC comes in.
Model can be simply understood as the data (could be database, a flat file, a set of XML's), or activities against the data (for example a query, or an upadte, an OO method against a dataset object, a SOAP call, a Java Enterprise Bean...)
View is the window for you to see the data and its transition.
You need something to glue your model and view together, or I would rather say to seperate them, but yet attached. Now here comes the controller. As you said, for a web application, this is where your requests got handled.
There are lots of challenges when you do web application in MVC way. My experience tells me that one of the biggest challenge is the cost. If you want to do everything right (everything MVC), with the tools you have now, the effort is hugh. No free lunch!
In reply to Re^3: The Model View Controller pattern in web applications
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