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About two dozen full-time Royal Gorge Bridge & Park employees have been laid off. The news was confirmed Monday by the Royal Gorge Bridge Company of Colorado, who has had a lease with the Cañon City-owned property since 1947.
Half of the employees that were laid off were informed of the news last week, and the other half found out Monday. Each were informed individually by their supervisors.
Mike Bandera, general manager of the RGB&P and vice president of the RGCC, told the Daily Record Monday that many of the employees were long-term, some of whom had been with the company for 20 to 30 years.
The RGCC says the layoffs stem from construction delays, loss of funds and city lease obligations.
"We met with everybody a month or six weeks ago and told them there was a high probability of layoffs because of pushing back the October construction approvals," he said. "This happened after the council tabled our master plan and architecture, and that delayed construction another month or so."
About 17 full-time employees remain in their positions, Bandera said, including management, supervisors and security personnel. The remaining workers will help to get the bridge reopened once construction is complete.
"They will help to get people rehired and trained when we reopen," he said. "We are still projecting Aug. 1 (2014). We will have to start rehiring a staff in July, but we don't know how big because we don't know how much will be ready, and the park will be a little more efficient and somewhat different than what it was in the past."
Bandera said it was a "real blow" to have to lay off his staff.
"It's the last thing we wanted to do, but there is no good time to lay people off," he said. "It is a very sad time for us, and it's heart-wrenching — myself and the directors are hurting because of this."
Just days following the June 11 Royal Gorge Fire, about 150 seasonal and part-time employees were laid off. When the park does rehire its staff, Bandera said there is no guarantee which employees will be rehired, it depends on the needs of the park.
Officials planned to begin reconstruction in October, following City Council approval of a master plan presented by the Beck Group Design and Architectural Firm.
City Administrator Doug Dotson said the City Council approved a master plan Oct. 7, however, the RGCC fell short on funding.
"When the city approved this, we were going on the assumption that they represented to us that they had a certain amount of insurance money that would pay for the improvements and that we were all good to go," he said. "They came back later and said everything changed. I don't think you can put all of that around the City Council's neck."
Mayor Tony Greer said the insurance coverage is the cause for the delay.
"The reason they are laying people off is because they were under-insured on their loss of income insurance," Greer said.
Bandera said the funds to rebuild that park are separate from the business continuation insurance, which is based on being closed about a year, which would be June 2013 to June 2014.
"Once it jumped up to August, we had to start cutting expenses, all expenses, not just labor, in order to have money in the bank to make it to August and also be able to pay the city their lease payments that are due in September and January," he said. "We asked for forgiveness on that because of these unforeseen circumstances and basically, we were told 'let's just wait and see' ... when they put us in that mode, we had to start budgeting for the worst case."
City Councilman Kevin Ditmore said after the first plan was approved, the bridge company learned it was $10 million short and came back with a revised plan.
The council needed time to review the plan and agree what should be included, and what should be left out, including the historic incline railway.
"We have to accept some responsibility for the delay because of our meeting requirements and posting meetings," Greer said. "This committee (Greer, Ditmore and Dotson) didn't have the authority to make decisions on the spot, we had to have a public hearing and we scheduled those as quickly as possible."
In November, the RGCC asked the council to consider the 2014 payment be based on actual revenue. If the council agrees, they anticipate the total payment to be about $504,000 for the fiscal year compared to the $1.6 million the city expected to receive in 2013. Bandera said the city is still requiring the bridge company to pay what it would pay if they were open and collecting revenue.
"We had a catastrophic incident happen and they have the leeway in the lease to forgive us for a year or more towards the 80 percent rule," he said. "It's an undue hardship on us to have to do that when we're not open and selling tickets."
He said the lease states that if the bridge company doesn't pay at least 80 percent of what was paid the previous year, the city has the option to terminate the lease. Bandera said the RGCC doesn't want to lose its lease with the city — it has 12 years remaining on the current agreement.
"We have done a great job since 1947 running that park," he said. "At this time, we have to budget for worst case, and that is we have to have the money to pay the lease payment to the city."
Dotson said the city also is feeling the sting from projected loss of revenue. During Monday's regular council meeting, he announced nine city positions were eliminated and several anticipated projects will be delayed that were planned for 2014.
Bandera said foundations for the buildings at the park are expected to be poured in January or February.


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The role of a military recruiter from any branch is paramount.
"The Air Force recruiter is what we call 'the gatekeeper,'" said local Air Force recruiter Tsgt. Calvin Greer. "We pretty much play the most important role in the Air Force."
But getting people into some branches has become more difficult. The Air Force and Navy are now immensely popular options, while the Marines and Army are having a tougher time recruiting. According to Greer, business is strong.
"We've had an outstanding in this area for all services because the people show great patriotism for their country," said Tsgt. Greer.
The Department of Defense needs more and more soldiers and Marines to proceed with their operations abroad, while the Air Force and Navy are in need of fewer personnel because of their increasingly high tech jobs. But the war in Iraq is likely the main cause of the Army and Marine struggles.
"Considering the evening news everyday, it's in everyone's face," said Sfc. Lawrence Kagawa, the local army recruiter. "Everyone will wonder, 'Are we going to fight? What's going to happen to us? Where are we going to head off to?' And we want to address it early."
According to Kagawa, they average one new enlistee every two days. "They come in and say, 'We want a challenge. We still want to support and hold true to our convictions and take the challenge of being in the Army.'"
The local Air Force office sees some 100 people walk into their offices each week. "Pretty much the overall concept of the Air Force, our facilities and our mission is totally different," said Greer. "Each branch of the service adds another twist to our Department of Defense, so it's hard to say we're better."
Whether they cross into the blue or become an army of one, they all serve one flag.
In 2004, the defense department began the "Blue to Green" program, trying to encourage airmen to switch to the Army.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Department of Biological Sciences
Sponsor: Western Illinois University
Participants: Departments of Biological Sciences, Chemistry, Geology, & Physics
When: April 20, 2018
Time: TBA
Where: Waggoner Hall, Western Illinois University, Macomb, Illinois / Map of Western Illinois Campus
Registration Form
Registration Fee: $35.00 (payable to The Department of Biological Sciences)
Theme: Next Generation Science Standards
This conference is designed for high school science teachers across all disciplines – physics, environmental science, Earth/Space science, chemistry, and biology. We are still in the process of finalizing speakers at this time but, as we have done for the past many years, are working to have a program that involves all areas of the sciences and a mix of activity-based and concept-based sessions. This year we will be focusing our sessions on the Next Generation Science Standards with a panel discussion as our main afternoon session.
As in the past, verification forms for CPDU credit will be awarded participants at this meeting. This should prove to be another informative and rewarding conference and we look forward to you joining us.
Our sponsors for this event include the Illinois Science Teachers Association (http://www.ista-il.org/), Scope Shoppe (http://www.scopeshoppe.com/contact_us.cfm), and Flinn Scientific (http://www.flinnsci.com/ ).
Please fill out the registration form immediately and send it in while you are still thinking about it. A luncheon is included in the cost of the conference. The conference registration fee is $35.
Registration Form for Science Education Conference . We will also periodically provide updates at that web site including the schedule for the day when it is finalized. If you have questions about the conference, please do not hesitate to contact me by e-mail at firstname.lastname@example.com or by phone at (309) 298-1546/1679.


text:
RINGWOOD – The McHenry County Conservation District will celebrate Local History Month with a program May 19 to help residents discover more about the area's past.
Attendees can step back in time to the 1850s at a Living History Open House from noon to 4 p.m. at Glacial Park's Powers-Walker House, 6201 Harts Road in Ringwood.
Costumed re-enactors will demonstrate seasonal activities and skills that were done in the 1850s. May's open house will feature a "Restoration Showcase" of both the house and donated artifacts, including the recently completed restoration of the Winter Kitchen that was made possible through a grant from the local Questers group and their state organization.
A special presentation of "Restoration by the Numbers" is scheduled for 2 p.m. to detail the effort of restoring the Powers-Walker House in time, expenses, volunteers and artifacts.
The open house is free, and registration is not required for this drop-in event.
For information or to register, contact Prairieview Education Center at 815-479-5779 or www.mccdistrict.org.


text:
Next time, install Story Turbo with 1-click
Learn how MacUpdate Desktop can install apps on MacUpdate with the simple click of the icon. Plus, keep all your apps updated.
Story Turbo (was Story Lite) is a multiple editor with large zoom canvas to work on. Creative and productive for all writing, blogging, notes, ideas, full works.
- Free full version!
- Notes and structure and images too in one unique writing and layout app
- Zoom layouts of boxes of words and images, notes, side boxes
- Zoom out to see all, zoom in to see details
- Change colors, group, export/publish
- With nearly 100 examples and templates
- With custom clipart ��" comic characters, speech bubbles, arrows, boxes etc ��" get creative!
What's New
Version 126.96.36.199:
- Group drag now works with mouse-drag as well as control-mouse-drag.
- Template: now opens with last used template file.
- Artifacts: Windows: Fixed: temporary artifacts if editing below 100% zoom.
- OS X 10.5 or later
Similar Software
Suggest other similar software


text:
1. The fourth annual Henderson County Boyd BBQ Expo, a fund-raising event for the Henderson County Education Foundation, takes place Saturday from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. at the Hendersonville High School stadium.
The family-oriented festival features a barbecue cooking competition; children's activities, including a petting zoo and midway rides; musical entertainment; and demonstrations. Admission is $6 for adults and $3 for children. For details, call 696-6688 or visit www.bbq-expo.com.
2. This is the final weekend to see Neil Simon's "Brighton Beach Memoirs" at Hendersonville Little Theatre, 229 S. Washington St.
North Henderson High School student Dion Mills plays the leading role, Eugene Jerome, in this semi-autobiographical comedy about a Jewish family in Depression-era Brooklyn, N.Y.
Performances are set for 7:30 tonight and Saturday and 2 p.m. Sunday. Tickets are $20 for adults, $15 for students 18 to 25, and $10 for students younger than 18. Call 828-692-1082 or visit hendersonvillelittletheater.org for details.
3. Time is also running out to see Neil Simon's "The Odd Couple" at the Flat Rock Playhouse Mainstage, 2661 Greenville Highway, Flat Rock.
Comedy duo Scott Treadway and Charles Flynn-McIver play Felix Ungar and Oscar Madison in performances at 8 tonight and Saturday and 2 p.m. Saturday and Sunday. Admission is $35, with discounts available. Call 828-693-0731 or visit www.flatrockplayhouse.org.
4. The final performances of Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" at Blue Ridge Community College are set for 7:30 p.m. today and Saturday in Patton Auditorium.
The cast of nearly 40 members is headed by Early College High School student Courtney Creasman, who plays Elizabeth Bennet, and BRCC graduate and professional actor J.J. McCarson as Mr. Darcy.
Admission is $7 for the general public, $5 for BRCC faculty, staff and students. Call 828-694-1849 to reserve tickets.
5. "Cotton Patch Gospel," a bluegrass musical by Harry Chapin that sets the Gospel story in rural Georgia, debuts Wednesday at the Flat Rock Playhouse Downtown, 125 S. Main St.
Performances are set for 8 p.m. Wednesday-Saturday and 2 p.m. Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays through May 19. Tickets are $35 and can be purchased by calling the Playhouse box office at 828-693-0731 or online at www.flatrockplayhouse.org.
5 with Appeal for April 19
1. The fourth annual Henderson County Boyd BBQ Expo, a fund-raising event for the Henderson County Education Foundation, takes place Saturday from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. at the Hendersonville High School stadium.


text: Legal Notice Page Content clasac site inspection12/15/2010Lee County Southwest Floridaclasac site inspectionWhen: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 PUBLIC NOTICE PLEASE BE ADVISED that members of the Lee County Conservation Land Acquisition and Stewardship Committee (CLASAC) and County staff will conduct a site inspection of property to be considered by the Committee, as follows: DATE: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 Property 1: Nomination 461-2; 157+/-acres; The property is located south of SR-82 off of Green Meadow Road Strap Nos.: 26-45-26-00-00001.0030 and 26-45-26-00-00001.0040 Time: 10:00 a.m. (Approximate time frame 1 and ½ hours for field review) Where: Meet at the Jamerson Farms Packing House (First driveway on the right on Green Meadow Road). Property 2: Nomination 475; 50.9+/-acres; The property is located south of Cemetery and off of Jackson Road Strap Nos.: Multiple parcels within Section 10, Township 44 South, Range 26 East Time: 1:00 p.m. (Approximate time frame 1 and ½ to 2 hours for field review) Where: 15400 Broken J Ranch Road, Fort Myers, FL 33905 Property 3: Nomination 455; 45.12+/-acres; The property is located south of Conservation 20/20 Buckingham Trails Preserve (Nomination 371) and north of Buckingham Road. Strap No.: 20-44-26-00-00005.0050 Time: 3:30 p.m. (Approximate time frame 45 minutes to 1 hour for field review) Where: 8010 Buckingham Road, Fort Myers, FL 33905 Two or more members of the CLASAC Committee may attend the site inspection. No final decisions on acquisition of the property will be made during the site visit. Members of the public are welcome, but must provide their own transportation and other accommodations as necessary. The Board of County Commissioners will make the final decision regarding acquisition of property. For questions, directions or other information related to the site inspection, please call (239) 533-8833 or e-mail email@example.com.


text:
Are Indian and Chinese Leaders Up to the Job?
Publication Date:
October 2013
China and India's future success is hardly guaranteed—it depends on the quantity and quality of talent in the top ranks of the companies driving the countries' growth. And that quantity and quality vary widely in China and India—more widely, as it turns out, than in many other countries. "At the end of the day," writes DDI's Rich Wellins, "India's leadership quotient appears to be a bit higher than that of China. However, neither country gets bragging rights. Their stellar business success over the past decade appears to behave happened in spite of extraordinary leadership rather than because of it."


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Switch to Forum Live View What is the Vinyard Movement?
|11 years ago :: Oct 14, 2007 - 3:38PM #1
I'm not familiar with the denomination. I've never heard of it before. How old is it? What exactly are your beliefs? I'm just looking for some general information. Thanks in advance. :)
Quick Reply
|11 years ago :: Oct 14, 2007 - 4:01PM #2
Thanks, DAH. You really get around. They seem pretty much like most of the mainlines.
Quick Reply
|11 years ago :: Oct 15, 2007 - 12:56PM #3
Hey, your church has some good ideas.
Quick Reply
|11 years ago :: Oct 24, 2007 - 7:04AM #4
From Vineyardusa.org:
The Association of Vineyard Churches is one of the fastest growing church-planting movements in the world. The Vineyard story is about ordinary people who worship and serve an extraordinary God. The Vineyard is simply one thread in the rich tapestry of the historic and global Church of Jesus Christ. But it is a thread of God's weaving.
From the beginning, Vineyard pastors and leaders have sought to hold in tension the biblical doctrines of the Christian faith with an ardent pursuit of the present day work of the Spirit of God. Maintaining that balance is never easy in the midst of rapid growth and renewal.
John Wimber was a founding leader of the Vineyard. His influence profoundly shaped the theology and practice of Vineyard churches from their earliest days until his death in November 1997. When John was conscripted by God he was, in the words of Christianity Today, a "beer-guzzling, drug-abusing pop musician, who was converted at the age of 29 while chain-smoking his way through a Quaker-led Bible study" (Christianity Today, editorial, Feb. 9 1998).
In John's first decade as a Christian he led hundreds of people to Christ. By 1970 he was leading 11 Bible studies that involved more than 500 people. Under God's grace, John became so fruitful as an evangelical pastor he was asked to lead the Charles E. Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth. He also later became an adjunct instructor at Fuller Theological Seminary where his classes set attendance records. In 1977, John reentered pastoral ministry to plant Calvary Chapel of Yorba.
Throughout this time, John's conservative evangelical paradigm for understanding the ministry of the church began to grow. George Eldon Ladd's theological writings on the kingdom of God convinced John intellectually that the all the biblical gifts of the Holy Spirit should be active in the church. Encounters with Fuller missiologists Donald McGavaran and C. Peter Wagner and seasoned missionaries and international students gave him credible evidence for combining evangelism with healing and prophecy. As he became more convinced of God's desire to be active in the world through all the biblical gifts of the Spirit, John began to teach and train his church to imitate Jesus' full-orbed kingdom ministry. He began to 'do the stuff' of the Bible that he had formerly only read about.
As John and his congregation sought God in intimate worship they experienced empowerment by the Holy Spirit, significant renewal in the gifts and conversion growth. It became clear that the church's emphasis on the experience of the Holy Spirit was not shared by some leaders in the Calvary Chapel movement. In 1982, John's church left Calvary Chapel and joined a small group of Vineyard churches. Vineyard was a name chosen by Kenn Gulliksen, a prolific church planter affiliated with Calvary Chapel, for a church he planted in Los Angeles in 1974. Pastors and leaders from the handful of Vineyard churches began looking to John for direction. And the Vineyard movement was born.
Twenty-five years later, there are more than 1,500 Vineyard churches worldwide, an international church planting movement, a publishing house and a music production company. Vineyard worship songs have helped thousands of churches experience intimacy with God. Many churches have been equipped to continue Jesus' ministry of proclaiming the kingdom, healing the sick, casting out demons and training disciples.
The Vineyard's journey has not been a straight path. It winds through many trials and triumphs. If interested in more, we recommend Bill Jackson's book, "The Quest for the Radical Middle." This readable history explores the events, issues and people who shaped the Vineyard in its first two decades.
Quick Reply
|11 years ago :: Oct 24, 2007 - 7:07AM #5
From the founder:
"The Vineyard Genetic Code
At a Vineyard pastors conference in September, 1992, founder John Wimber
taught on 10 areas of ministry that were essential to any Vineyard church. John
called these areas the Vineyard Genetic Code because they are the common
denominators that identify us as a family. A Vineyard experience typically
Clear, accurate, Biblical teaching
Contemporary worship in the freedom of the Holy Spirit
The gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation
An active small group ministry
Ministry to the poor, widows, orphans and those who are broken
Physical healing with emphasis on signs and wonders as seen in the
book of Acts
A commitment to missions - church planting at home and world
missions abroad
Unity within the whole body of Christ; a relationship with other local
Evangelistic outreach
Equipping the saints in areas such as discipleship, ministry, serving,
giving, finances, family, etc."
Quick Reply
|11 years ago :: Nov 08, 2007 - 9:07PM #6
What Vineyard churchs are in the Las Vegas area?
Now THERE'S a place where the Vineyard needs to be planted...
"No freedom without education"
--Thomas Jefferson
"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
-- Monty Python
Quick Reply
|10 years ago :: Jan 12, 2008 - 2:47PM #7
[COLOR="DarkRed"]I have, in the past, attended a Vineyard church. It was a nice and inspiring experience. Coming from a liturgical background (Roman Catholic, Episcopal) I missed some of the deeper spiritual things. I really appreciated the service attitude (helping the poor and single mom's). I also enjoyed the worship music. I missed the deep respect for communion. The sermon seemed to be geared toward the seeker. So for me it was church lite.[/COLOR]
Quick Reply
|10 years ago :: Jan 12, 2008 - 2:47PM #8
[COLOR="DarkRed"]I have, in the past, attended a Vineyard church. It was a nice and inspiring experience. Coming from a liturgical background (Roman Catholic, Episcopal) I missed some of the deeper spiritual things. I really appreciated the service attitude (helping the poor and single mom's). I also enjoyed the worship music. I missed the deep respect for communion. The sermon seemed to be geared toward the seeker. So for me it was church lite.[/COLOR]
Quick Reply
|10 years ago :: Jan 18, 2008 - 12:19PM #9
Hello, pio_child,
I, too, am a liturgical worshipper (of the Lutheran persuasion). Like you I really appreciate the service attitude of the vineyard, as well as the worship music. Also, like you, I come to miss the liturgy, so that's why I attend both a vineyard church and a lutheran church. this way I get the body and blood of christ in a liturgical setting, plus the great worship experience of the vineyard. I would say, however, that some people get the "deeper spiritual things" from a vineyard. I guess it is all what you make of it.
God Bless.
Quick Reply
|10 years ago :: Jan 18, 2008 - 7:11PM #10
[COLOR="Sienna"]Thanks Steve, we are somewhat on the same page[/COLOR]
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text:
"It's not a choice of hot dogs and hamburgers," Levatino told the audience as protesters lining the aisles with signs proclaiming, "Our bodies, our right" hissed and interrupted. "There's more at stake."Supporters of abortion rights heckled during the speech. Can somebody explain how they can think that helps their cause? I'd say trying to blot out the other side's speech, especially in this case, implicitly expresses your fear that the information and reasoning he's providing is persuasive. Also, it makes you look rude and insensitive to both the speaker and those in the audience who want to hear, which is especially damaging to the abortion rights cause (because it's easy for people to think of abortion as a woman's selfish insensitivity to the interests of another).
Levatino then launched into a graphic description of his abortion procedures, which involved pulling individual body parts off a 20-week-old fetus from inside the womb with a large metal clamp.
"I didn't have any qualms with what I was doing," Levatino stated. "I was pro-choice. It was part of my care to women."
October 6, 2005
"For the first time in my life, after over 1,200 abortions in private practice, I actually looked at the pile of goo..."
76 comments:
- Sloanasaurus said...
If you believe that a 20 month year old fetus is not life an no different than cutting someones hair, it wouldn't bother you to boo and hiss someone who thought otherwise.
I suppose PETA supporters feel they get a similar insensitive reaction from farmers who take their pigs to the slaughter house.
The more I think about it, it is odd that PETA members are not also radically pro-life. There is a breakdown in logic somewhere in their thinking.... how could a 20 month year old fetus have less rights than an egg or chicken.
- Telecomedian said...
Your ending comment is spot-on - it doesn't help their cause to interrupt information, especially from an expert. This relates well to a post you had a few weeks back about Chief Justice Roberts during his law school days - he was one of the rare conservatives surrounded by liberals - he *HAD* to be more schooled in facts against purely emotional arguments.
- Goesh said...
We need hecklers however. Public speakers must never be allowed to think they have captured the hearts and minds of any audience. Heckling is raw Democracy at its finest. About 5 years ago I was one of the hecklers at a kkk rally. There were 4 klansmen and about a dozen of their supporters. There must have been at least 150 hecklers, all booing, hissing, chanting, cat-calling, etc. There truly is delight in heckling a public speaker. There is a savage joy in it, all moraltiy and politics aside.
- StrangerInTheseParts said...
I agree with your post Ann - though I also like Goesh's comments a lot, too.
However, has anyone been to their local abortion clinic lately? Have you noticed if it is or is not surrounded by shouting, marching anti-abortionists with large posters depicting said 'piles of goo'. They especially like getting their posters right in the faces of the terrified and depressed young women trying to survive what is usually the worst experience of their life. Does that behavior really help their cause? Does it help those women?
Seems to me that if you can't stand a couple of hecklers at a speech, you out to be equally outraged by the anti-abortion protests as well. (Not to mention the occasional bombings and shootings that go on.)
Again - for clarity - I find BOTH sides tactics repulsive and counterproductive. I just find Ann's comments here worth confronting for their one-sidedness. Most often in life, if you see one side acting in a childish rage, it is because they learned that behavior from their enemies. Such things feed on themselves.
- JB said...
I will never forget my oddest experience with liberal thought, I met a number of vegetarians who would not eat eggs (some vegans) because of moral concern, but were ardently pro-choice. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so disturbing.
- Decklin Foster said...
It's sad that they would be so rude, but I guess if your beliefs are mocked and insulted so often (take, for example, JB's comment directly above) I can understand how you might feel like there's no other way to get through to anyone.
Me, I'm not invested enough to take that sort of thing personally, so don't try to get me in an argument about it.
I am still pro-choice. But I understand what this speaker was saying and why, and it breaks my heart. There is no such thing as an easy position in this debate. (Nevertheless, we still have ideologues on both sides who pretend that theirs is.)
- HaloJonesFan said...
>There truly is delight in
>heckling a public speaker. There
>is a savage joy in it, all
>moraltiy and politics aside.
But that is the problem! You aren't doing it because you think it needs to be done, you're doing it because it feels good. It's not about the speaker, or the content--it's about you.
- Jim Gust said...
Mr. Sloan--
20-month old human fetuses would almost certainly be dead.
- anselm said...
JB & Sloan:
It's not inconsistent to support vegetarianism and abortion rights, both as a matter of personal choice.
I am a vegetarian and think it's a good idea for various reasons, but I don't expect that a legislative ban on meat consumption is the answer, morally or pragmatically.
Even on a strictly moral level, there is no moral interest in meat consumption that I can see. Whereas there are arguments for the right of women to abort their fetuses based on moral considerations, agree or not.
Not that your comment doesn't pose some good questions, but if you tink you've hit upon some kind of ultimate contradiction, you're missing some obvious differences between the two issues.
- MD said...
Heckling's fine, as long as it doesn't get so carried away that you can't hear what the speaker has to say. Did you read the descriptions of Bolton speaking at Yale, was it? Sounds lively and like he 'heckled' right back. So much more fun that way....
I had some of the same thoughts as the speaker when I first started my pathology residency and saw the products of conception, the abortuses, the ASAPS (acute situational anxiety of pregnancy - I am not making this up, sorta Orwellian, eh?), the what have you, depending on the hospital. When you first see the specimens - the delicate little hands and feet, the fragile, thin skulls, it's weird. Really, really weird. At least, it was for me. I'm still (more and more reluctantly) pro-choice, but I've become disillusioned with the language and the general antics of the pro-choice movement (the more vocal parts, anyway).
Be honest! We can take it.
- JB said...
I definately see how a myriad of distinctions could be made, for one, the mother chicken, does not have a "choice" in the situation, and therefore personal autonomy is lacking etc. I understand the differences and see them.
I also agree that vegetarianism does not conflict with a pro-choice position especially where the choice is based on pragmatism or taste.
It was the instances, where I met individuals who had a moral problem with eating (not just meat) eggs, who I also found out were pro-choice. Sure distinctions can be made, and as I said the personal autonomy of the "mother" may be one of them, but I just found that particular contradiction, particularly "icky."
- MD said...
Hmm, it looks like I just contradicted myself in my last comment, doesn't it? I wasn't referring to the heckling of the speaker, which I don't mind too much, but the use of medical phrases like ASAP and the other 'weasel words' often used when talking about abortion.
- Jack Roy said...
I think there should be a new species of academic fallacy: Assuming contrary to evidence that college students are acting rationally.
- Pastor_Jeff said...
Has anyone been to their local abortion clinic lately?
Have you noticed if it is or is not surrounded by shouting, marching anti-abortionists with large posters depicting said 'piles of goo'.
Yes I have noticed, and yes there are some of those people, but they are a minority. Mostly, the "protesters" are there praying and offering to speak to anyone who'd like to hear about alternatives to abortion. It's hard to do when you're not allowed within 150' of a clinic entrance.
They especially like getting their posters right in the faces of the terrified and depressed young women trying to survive what is usually the worst experience of their life.
Yes this happens, and I think it's unfortunate. But I understand why protesters use those posters since Planned Parenthood refuses to show sonograms to their patients or give them useful information - they are told it's a "product of conception" or "mass of cells." Why do 90% of abortion-minded women who see a sonogram choose not to abort?
I don't like the use of graphic posters personally, but I understand the justification. Just like when PETA shows graphic pictures of abused animals, or when TV showed pictures of fire hoses used on civil rights protesters, pictures are a powerful way to communicate truth.
And I agree with you it's the worst experience of of a young woman's life. That's why I am conflicted about the use of such tactics.
Does that behavior really help their cause? Does it help those women?
I doubt it, but who knows? I think their immediate cause is to 1) Force the young woman to be confronted information she definitely will not receive inside the clinic, and 2) Raise enough doubts in her mind such that the fetus will not be killed.
- anselm said...
Signs work well. They show solidarity and numbers, give a certain threshold level of respect to the speaker, and make it into the morning paper.
The distinctions didn't keep you from finding the vegan/pro-choice stance "laughable" and "disturbing", but you noted them.
better than nothing...
- PatCA said...
You're right, Decklin, there are no easily defended positions, and that's why hecklers do their cause no good. It's not the heckling, it's the lack of thought, that rankles.
I don't want abortion to be illegal, but I have to say that all of the women I know who have had abortions did it for reasons of essentially convenience. That was a couple of decades ago, in the early days of Roe v. Wade, and women perhaps chose abortion too quickly, but this is not a good for society, either.
- Ann Althouse said...
Anselm: "Even on a strictly moral level, there is no moral interest in meat consumption that I can see." I used to be a vegetarian, but I felt sick in a way that I found was cured by eating meat. I don't eat a lot of meat and I try to buy free-range type meats. I feel I need to eat meat for my health. Is that not a moral interest if I also take care to buy meat from animals that have been raised under decent conditions?
- Ann Althouse said...
The problem with eggs isn't their status as potential chickens -- you're probably not looking at fertilized eggs. It's the conditions under which most egg-laying chickens are confined. It's therefore important to buy eggs from free-range chickens. Concern for the suffering of chickens caused by you is not inconsistent with your supporting a woman's autonomy in governing her own body. It's true that you're failing to rescue the unborn child, but you would have to intrude on her body to do it. When you eat eggs from chickens raised under poor conditions you are part of the cause of the suffering.
- Paul said...
A person invited to a forum has a right to be heard in that forum, it is not extemporaneous speech on a street corner. It is publicized and people are expected then to hear this person. There is no room here to disrupt the speaker. Those opposed should hold their own forum, conduct their own protests outside or in another building where people who choose can come to listen. This country lives not to smother a person's views.
I'm naive again.
- miklos rosza said...
I was involved in a late (6 month) abortion when I was 17. The girl was 15. We just kept putting off thinking about it, and her (wealthy) parents were inattentive at best.
It was just getting to the point where I would put my hand on her belly and feel the baby occasionally kick.
This is too confessional. It feels self-indulgent. All apologies.
On a Tuesday night at 10pm D. called me from the small hospital her parents had checked her into. She was to have an abortion first thing the following morning. I was simultaneously horrified and I guess relieved. I was school president, etc, and the only way I could picture having the baby was dropping out and getting a bluecollar job.
She had an "induced labor" abortion, which from what she told me later was horribly painful, the contractions more powerful and unrelenting because they were artificially caused. D's parents flew to the Bahamas and I picked her up from the hospital, staying with while she wept off and on -- and was in pain -- the next few days.
I look back on my irresponsibility and lack of seriousness as the worst thing I've been a party to in my life. It was a sin. It's haunted me a great deal, as it doesn't look like I'll end up ever fathering a child.
I've known two women, "career women" -- well, teachers, who had one or more abortions in their 20s and then frantically sought to become pregnant in their late 30s without success. One eventually adopted a baby from Nepal, the other a child from Bombay.
I know a woman who in her early 20s was in a band, addicted to heroin off and on, and had no less than five abortions. She has had complications since -- that is, she has gone to the emergency room on several occasions because of frighteningly heavy bleeding when her regular period occurred.
I know a lesbian who had two abortions while married then finally had a child when she was 38. She smothers it with attention -- the "only child syndrome" -- which seems so common as to be unremarkable these days.
My wife does not want to have a child because this would cramp her "creativity," a faculty which remains, in her 30s, amorphous and ill-defined. She used to be in a band.
I know two other women in their 30s who attend writing workshops and hope to be novelists and reject motherhood as something which would put an end to that hope.
I guess I remain pro-choice. I don't feel morally elevated enough to judge anyone here. But it's a bad business. And these kinds of stories -- which have all kinds of overtones, and reverberations, and epitomize so much -- seldom seem to be heard. Or I miss them. I don't know.
- Sally said...
This is a very interesting post by Ann, and interesting comments. I have to agree with Ann here on her basic premise - that heckling someone who has first hand experience with abortions and is coming from a thoughtful place does little for the pro-choice cause. Ignoring the repurcussions of late-term abortions also does little for the cause as it deters honest dialogue. Many pro-choicers feel conflicted by late-term abortions, yet the pro-choice movement seems to try it's hardest to silence even a respectful debate. And yes, i am pro-choice.
- JB said...
It's certainly the case, that one could refrain from eating eggs from providers who treat their chickens poorly and this would be not at all inconsistent, but that's, if I'm correct in understanding, a reason to not eat certain eggs, but some others. Which is not inconsistent.
I was going to point out the unfertilized nature of the eggs as well, but I thought it demonstrated even greater absurdity.
There are a myriad of bases to justify not eating eggs or to only eat certain eggs, but when in the 5 or so where someone mentioned they were a vegan, who I then asked why and they told me that they had a moral problem with eating meat because it was killing, who also stated that they ate eggs, and later in the conversation when I asked casually if they were pro-choice and they said they were, I couldn't help but ponder at the inconsistency.
Just cause I recognize that someone has made a distinction to themselves doesn't mean that I necessarily think it's legitimate, most cases, it is, just some are a stretch, and I'm probably too harsh in calling it laughable, but it's always interesting to me how fine distinctions can get, and some do start to get silly.
- JB said...
That should read..."didn't eat eggs"
- Sally said...
OMG, thank you for sharing your stories! This is another big piece of the pie that is missing from the pro-choice movement IMO- the haunting that an abortion can cause one, even if one happens to be so very liberal and creative. I feel the pro-choice movement is so into the politics of it, that they've decide to ignore the nuances and the real emotions that come from such a decision.
- Walt said...
Hecklers appearing to be rude and insensitive?
Hecklers ARE rude and insensitive, on both sides of the issue, whatever the issue.
Oh, I know. The hecklers are thinking of themselves as wielders of 1st amendment rights, participating in confrontational politics. And that's the problem.
Confrontation goes beyond the boundaries of civilized discourse, and to the degree the hecklers go beyond those boundaries, it becomes less a matter of expressing a viewpoint and more like an assault, with the underlying possibility that violence is a possibility. In short, heckling is a threat, and is meant as one.
- StrangerInTheseParts said...
Aha! So rational, calm and insightful exchanges about abortion from both sides is possible! I knew it! Kudos to all commenters.
Pastor Jeff - thanks for the even tempered and thorough response.
Lesson: It is the zealots and the radicals on your own side that are often the largest cause of suffering, misunderstanding, rage and defeat. People who value calmness, convincing arguments, and humility always have more in common with each other - even when they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum - than those who value rage, purity of ideals, and smiting their enemies.
- PatCA said...
Milos, thanks. Your experiences echo mine. All this 'choice' can break your heart.
- tcd said...
I don't agree with the heckler's tactics and wish they wouldn't do it, but I can understand why they're doing it. It is pure anger. Anger at the opposition's deceit.
The pro-life movement purports to care about the woman and the fetus and they mask their argument in the language of life, community and religion. But when the mask is removed, their position boils down to anti-choice and anti-woman; pure control over half of the population. For example, here's a sentiment from Pastor Jeff, one of our moral betters, "...I agree with you it's the worst experience of of a young woman's life. That's why I am conflicted about the use of such tactics." So he is conflicted. Wow, thanks for your empathy Pastor. What does he propose to do to the young woman? Pastor Jeff says, " 1) Force the young woman to be confronted information she definitely will not receive inside the clinic..." Yes, let's FORCE her. So today, we force her to look at some pictures. Tomorrow, we force her to give birth to a future taxpayer. And the day after that? We must punish her by forcing her to live with the consequences of her immoral behavior (how dare she have sex outside of marriage, my moral belief says it's wrong). Let's see if the bitch can survive single motherhood. Forget about high school, forget about college, she can work at Walmart -- she has a future taxpayer to raise and feed after all. End of the road for you, baby. Let's move on to the next sinner!
That's my view on pro-lifers.
- vbspurs said...
Anselm wrote:
Not that your comment doesn't pose some good questions, but if you tink you've hit upon some kind of ultimate contradiction, you're missing some obvious differences between the two issues.
That the killing of the children of animals is more morally egregious than the killing of the children of humans?
Because that's how it looks like, when you're a vegan AND pro-choice.
I am pro-life, and I veer towards favouring anti-capital punishment.
I realise one is the killing of innocent life, and the other is the killing of life which has taken life, which the State has decided must be punished, but at least my way, makes more sense.
But vegan and pro-choice? Please.
- vbspurs said...
implicitly expresses your fear that the information and reasoning he's providing is persuasive. Also, it makes you look rude and insensitive to both the speaker and those in the audience who want to hear, which is especially damaging to the abortion rights cause (because it's easy for people to think of abortion as a woman's selfish insensitivity to the interests of another).
- vbspurs said...
But when the mask is removed, their position boils down to anti-choice and anti-woman;
I am hardly likely to be anti-myself or anti my own interests.
This is where the absolute breakdown of logic occurs.
It is not men who are the basis of the pro-life movement. It is women.
You have to find another argument than "It's the big bad MALES who are at fault for trying to keep you down!".
You'll find that doesn't work in the West as much anymore.
- tcd said...
I was raised in and still live in Michigan, USA. I've had my share of abortion arguments with enough American males to know where they're coming from. You need not condescend.
- Jennifer said...
tcd said...I've had my share of abortion arguments with enough American males to know where they're coming from.
If you've approached said males as antagonistically and condescendingly as you did the posters here, then I doubt very much that you discovered anything about where they are coming from.
- tcd said...
And I wasn't just referring to males. I was referring to all pro-lifers including women like you. You know, the kind who like to look down their noses at other people.
- Jennifer said...
tcd said...I was referring to all pro-lifers when saying
their position boils down to anti-choice and anti-woman; pure control over half of the population
You just confirmed my opinion that its unlikely you've actually gleaned much from anyone you debated abortion with.
I have a hard time believing that you have never met a single pro-lifer who opposed abortion on moral grounds. Every single pro-lifer simply aims to control women, huh?
That seems a rather naive and simplistic view of things.
- Sally said...
Ooops! I gave thanks to the wrong person. I meant to give thanks to Miklos for sharing his experiences. THESE are the sorts of stories we (rightfully) pro-choicers should start sharing.
And Tcd, you are demonstrating EXACTLY what I cannot stand about my pro-choice sisters and brothers. Stop simply reacting and start listening. Believe it or not, there is some commonground between the pro-life and pro-choice movement, and I think we better start connecting a bit more to help young women.
- tcd said...
You think abortion is morally wrong, then don't have one. Abortion would not be an option for me as well. I'm just not arrogant enough to think that I should impose my moral views onto other women. Maybe you sleep better at night in the comforting thought that you are morally superior. I happen to like living my life with a bit more humility.
- Jennifer said...
tcd: For the record, I absolutely think women have a right to make a choice. I just think we need to make our choices well before you think we do.
And, I feel it is morally repugnant to stand by and tacitly condone something that is wrong. Can you understand that, from my perspective, I would be betraying my own beliefs by supporting a right to abortion?
That said, you certainly have the right to your beliefs and to lobby for laws that support your beliefs. I think I have that right as well.
Allicent is absolutely right. There truly is common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. And, no one is served by a contentious debate where each side seeks to silence and insult the other.
- Eddie said...
What I don't understand is this. If a man can't have a view on abortion because he can't get pregnant, it then seems reasonable to me that a woman who HASN'T had an abortion can't be pro-choice or have a position because she hasn't had an Abortion, doesn't know the pain of one, doesn't know the hurt and suicidal thoughts a woman goes through after having one in order to "know" what it's like to have an abortion.
- Eddie said...
Why does carrying a child to term automatically mean a woman doesn't have a life, career, or future.
1) She doesn't live with the forever pain an abortion brings and the nightmares that go along with it.
2) The child is raised in a good home, at least as good as any.
3) Adoption has always been the Christian thing to do, and there is quite the waiting list for it as well.
- Sally said...
Adoption is a wonderful thing and I hope to adopt a child one day myself. That being said, adoption can also be a tricky thing. It is devastating for a birthmother to give up a child and it can also cause identity confusion for the child. I have spoken to women who lived in the day and age in the U.S. when abortion was illegal, and so opted for adoption. As far as I can see, these women are haunted far more than my friends who have had abortions, which of course, can also be devestating.
I'm hard on the pro-choice movement for pollyannaing (is that a word?) the affects of abortion. That being said, I think the pro-life movement should also think twice about pollyanning the potentially devastating affects of bringing a child to term when said women is not ready to be a mother. Adoption is not necessarilly a wonderful thing for everyone.
- Mary said...
Anybody else catch this?
"My wife does not want to have a child because this would cramp her 'creativity,' a faculty which remains, in her 30s, amorphous and ill-defined. She used to be in a band."
"I know two other women in their 30s who attend writing workshops and hope to be novelists and reject motherhood as something which would put an end to that hope."
That's a rather extreme view of "pro-life" if you're suggesting every woman should be a mother. Good or bad, why not respect their choices since your judgment here might be off. Or did I miss something and they've all aborted too?
(You could always leave your wife if you feel so strongly about fatherhood -- there's probably still time for you as a man. Sorry to hear about your youthful mistakes, but it sounds like neither of you were responsible enough to care for a child then, and her parents did not want to either. Perhaps this was the least painful outcome considering what might have become of that child, had you not found a decent adoption home for the child. Good luck.)
- Eddie said...
While I respect your comments, I still did not see one thing in there that ever talked about the child, as if my life and yours aren't worth living. Were we not born of the same womb that mothers who abort their children are born from, and then torn apart from limb to limb? I am sorry if a woman is an incubator, but that doesn't make that child's life, yours, mine, and Ann Althouse's any less valuable.
- Eddie said...
Allicent, if you have never had an abortion, how do you know the pain in the heart of the women who had abortions? You and I are not God and have no idea.
One of my sister's friends murdered her child and had nightmares, repeating, of a baby coming at her with a butcher knife.
- Sally said...
I never said that I never had an abortion. Although I am under the guise of my pseudonym "Allicent", I do like to maintain some level of mystery. So I will keep this part of myself a secret. Have I ever been raped and as a result aborted? Have I ever had unprotected sex and as a result aborted? Has a condom ever broken on me, and as a result, I aborted? Or am I a good christian who gave birth, put my child up for adoption, only to have my biological child commit suicide at the age of 16 while being cared for by her adoptee parents? Or was I one of the lucky ones? All of these stories are true, and whichever is mine, I'm not telling. However, this truth remains - giving ones child up for adoption is truly a horrifying experience for most women.
- Sally said...
Eddie - Or shall I play with language as you did?
You say mothers who abort are "murderers". Well then, those good Christian women who give up their children for adoption must then be "abandoners"?
- ShadyCharacter said...
Allicent writes:
"You say mothers who abort are "murderers". Well then, those good Christian women who give up their children for adoption must then be "abandoners"?"
That is simply specious. I'd say leaving a baby on the side of the road might qualify a person as an "abandoner", but entrusting a child to a loving home most certainly is not. You, of course, know this, but you had a cheap point to score. Well, congrats!
- Sally said...
Not exactly, shady, I don't believe adoptee parents abandon their child. I was only drawing attention to Eddie's use of "murder" which I thought was cheap, and creating a parallel situation. I do not think Eddie's use of "murderer" encourages an environment of civil debate. Of course I could use the logic that you used, shady, and say that a mother who throws her children in a dumster to die is a murder, and a woman who has an abortion at 6 weeks is not. I'm sure you would agree with that.
- Sally said...
Shady and whomever,
I'm only trying to draw attention to pro-lifers' tendency to pollyanna adoption.
- paulfrommpls said...
A long time ago, I read that abortion was the main means of birth control in the Soviet Union. Don't know if it's still true in Russia.
I increasingly don't know where I stand on this issue, but I always thought that little fact puts some moral context on the issue that pro-choicers might want to consider. I mean, given the rather mechanistic, anti-human aspects of the Soviet approach to organizing life.
- tcd said...
I don't buy your argument. The way I view the abortion debate is like this:
Pro-choice = abortion remains a legal option for all; it is the woman's choice to take this option or she can decide it's not for her.
Pro-life = abortion is illegal and criminalized by the State; takes autonomy away from the woman and gives control to the State.
So unless you are saying that the pro-choice position is for mandatory, state-sanctioned abortion then your argument is wrong. BTW, not to state the obvious, the pro-choice position is not to advocate for mandatory abortions.
- OddD said...
Victoria is spot on with her comment: Men are consistently more pro-choice than women.
This is actually obvious if you think about it. It's easier to look at the "bottom line" of being pregnant if you're not actually the one who is pregnant.
From a political standpoint, I think the fact that nobody is particularly happy with the current state of affairs is a good sign.
- paulfrommpls said...
tcd -
The only thing I'm saying is something vague about the nature of abortion, such that it struck the Soviets as such a wonderful means of birth control.
So perhaps it's more a comment directed at women having abortions than at the pro-choice movement. Although, I do think there is an aspect of the militant pro-choice wing that evinces a certain pride in the choice and even in the act.
It was a musing sort of comment. But maybe there is meaning for the pro-choice wing, in that the way the Soviets embraced it provides a clue for what strikes the pro-life movement as so dark and anti-human about it. And also, results-wise, the fact that it's not mandatory doesn't mean it doesn't become common.
In fact, now that I think about it, it wasn't mandatory in the Soviet Union either. It's just the way things developed, I believe.
I am basically a pro-choicer, still, just because it is a moral decision about which there is great disagreement, so I've always thought we really have no choice but to leave it up to individuals. Yet I also have always known that ethical construct means nothing to pro-lifers who see it as murdering babies.
I also think it's been an issue that has contributed strongly to the political decline of the left. Politically, emotionally, staking a large part of your base on something that CAN be seen intellectually as a legitimate right for women versus something that can very easily be seen as killing babies - well, you're at a disadvantage.
- paulfrommpls said...
Especially, by the way, since about half the women in the country don't agree it should be a right. So it becomes kind of hard to argue that it's a totally obvious right.
Again, I'm just thinking about political dilemmas.
- Jennifer said...
OddD: Victoria is spot on with her comment: Men are consistently more pro-choice than women.
I think you're both completely right here.
Ann: You've had a few threads on abortion in the past few days. Kudos to you that you've created a forum where posters (with a few exceptions) have maintained a civil discourse on a subject that's notorious for reducing debaters to screeching, seething radicals.
- Ann Althouse said...
Thanks, Jennifer. One of my primary concerns in blogging is fostering civil discourse. I love good debate and have devoted much of my life to trying to inspire it.
- Sally said...
Odd and Victoria,
I don't know the statistics but that is a very important point, and one that I have noticed myself in regard to my generation. Of course! Men LOVE abortions. I don't mean to be crude, but I can't count how many times I've seen a young man either manipulate his girlfriend into having an abortion, or if a better man, sat on the sidelines like a scarred puppy while his girlfriend made "the decision", all the while praying that she would just go through with it. This is yet another issue that the pro-choice camp should acknowledge.
- Jennifer said...
Allicent: Good points. I've also noticed that a lot of men are pro-choice by default. They've never associated the issue with themselves and therefore have never really formed specific opinions or beliefs.
- tcd said...
Fair enough. I see your point and I totally agree with you when you say, "I am basically a pro-choicer, still, just because it is a moral decision about which there is great disagreement, so I've always thought we really have no choice but to leave it up to individuals. Yet I also have always known that ethical construct means nothing to pro-lifers who see it as murdering babies."
Thanks for stating something that I was unable to convey so succinctly.
- vbspurs said...
A long time ago, I read that abortion was the main means of birth control in the Soviet Union. Don't know if it's still true in Russia.
That was true, and IS true today in Cuba.
(I don't know about North Korea, since I have never met a N. Korean)
The mother of my ex-boyfriend, Cuban-Americans here in the US since 1985, once had to be rushed to hospital with profuse bleeding.
Turns out she had an IUD implanted in her without her knowledge, let alone consent.
This was after she had given birth to the 2 children considered the ideal of a Communist Cuban family (1 more than in China and Russia), and apparently, it was determined not to leave it to chance.
We're not in any danger of that or Indira Gandhi's mandatory vasectomies here in the US, but you see, birth control and abortions in some societies (these alleged Superior Societies at that) are not about women's rights.
- vbspurs said...
I've also noticed that a lot of men are pro-choice by default.
My father is pro-choice. My mother is not.
I've never dated a man who was pro-life. Ever.
- Jennifer said...
My father is pro-choice. My mother is not.
Funny - we're the opposite. My father is ardently pro-life and my mother is just as adamantly pro-choice. This breaks down along religious lines, though, in my family.
I've never dated a man who was pro-life. Ever.
My husband was pro-choice when we met 10 years ago. He was surprised that I wasn't. Over time, his views have changed some what. Mostly since we had our first child.
While he was talking to his sister on the phone during my first pregnancy, he said something or other about the baby. She broke in and said it's not a baby - it's just a bun. I think that was a turning point for him.
I wouldn't classify him as totally pro-life, in the political sense. But, he's not exactly pro-choice any longer either.
- Jennifer said...
Paul: I am basically a pro-choicer, still, just because it is a moral decision about which there is great disagreement, so I've always thought we really have no choice but to leave it up to individuals. Yet I also have always known that ethical construct means nothing to pro-lifers who see it as murdering babies.
I'm glad you made that point. It's so easy for it to become us against them. They are all baby killers. Or they all want to control women.
This is one of those debates where the fundamental differences in the two sides are so far apart, it's really easy to be blind to the foundation of your opponents' argument.
- Yevgeny Vilensky said...
To tcd and others who have made the point that if you don't like an abortion, then don't have one...
I am pro-choice, so this is not exactly what I believe, but to someone who is pro-life and has determined that abortion is immoral, isn't saying "if you don't like an abortion then don't have one", the equivalent of saying "if you don't like slavery don't own own a slave"?
So the point is that the morality of the issue IS the lynchpin here on which the outcome rests.
To Ann:
I think that you're too hastily dismissing the conflict between a woman's right to autonomy and a fetus's possible right to life. I think that, if anything, if we determined that a fetus is a person, then the right to life ought to trump a right to liberty. Now of course, this is a rebuttable presumption and noted MIT philosopher Judith Jarvis Thompson has written extensively on the "violinist" problem (look it up on Google or Wikipedia). But there is a conflict there and I do not think it's adequate to say, "sure, the fetus might have some rights, but we shouldn't invade on women's bodies" especially when in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases, the actions of those women are the reason why this conflict exists in the first place.
Now that doesn't mean that I think that we should blame women for pre-marital sex or sex when they don't want to have children, etc. But I do think that just because it ought to be morally acceptable to make those decisions (to engage in sex when not willing or ready to have children), we should not entirely discount any of the potential consequences.
That said, great job on providing such a great forum for reasoned debate.
- Pogo said...
The pro-choice hecklers are engaging in propaganda which is not intended to persuade, convince, or inform, but to coerce silence and/or humiliate.
When people are forced into silence, to renounce their own views before the mob, or to repeat the mob's views as if now their own, the complete debasement of the independent human mind is accomplished. Such heckling is not merely childish or, in an active democracy, counterproductive, it is at its core aggressively anti-human.
- tcd said...
I can appreciate your philosphical argument and it makes sense to me. But with life, one deals with realities. Since the pro-life side is sharing personal anecdotes, I will submit my reality for consideration. Make of it what you will.
I am 5'2", weigh 90 lbs (I have never been able to crack 3 digits on the scale no matter how much protein I consume), and am severely anemic. My anemic condition is severe enough to warrant a visit to an oncologist every 3 months for blood count tests and sometimes liver function tests. This same doctor has told me on several occasions that any pregnancy I should have will likely come with complications beyond "normal" pregnancy complications and that I should have a very good OB-GYN if I should consider motherhood. If and when the time comes that I am pregnant and should experience these complications, I want the decision to continue or not to continue my pregnancy to remain in the hands of 3 people, that is me, my husband (who fears he will lose me in such a case) and my doctor. I do not want the decision making process to involve total strangers who do not know me, care about me or are not medically informed. I am not asking the pro-life side to support abortion, I am asking them to not criminalize it and to not put the decision making process in the hands of the government.
So while the pro-life side may debate this issue on philosophical or moral grounds, the issue of abortion may become a medical reality for me and perhaps other women and their husbands. It is not a reality that I relish as I have said before that abortion would not be my first choice but it should remain my choice. Unfortunately it is a reality that gives me a vested interest in an issue that I would just rather not debate. And that makes me angry. I do not expect the pro-life side to empathize with this; I suspect that many of them will say that such a case as mine is rare and glibly dismiss it.
- Jennifer said...
tcd: I'm not sure why you think so little of the people who make up the pro-life side of the debate. Of course I sympathize with your dilemma. Most pro-lifers would - which is why few would deny an abortion in the case of medical necessity for the mother.
That you would be angry at people who oppose what they perceive as legalizing the killing of innocents as a routine course because you have a medical necessity confuses me.
- Pastor_Jeff said...
Thanks for sharing your own story and personal investment in the issue. I'm assuming from your comments you want to at least have the possibility of having children, and physcial issues make that potentially dangerous for you. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have to terminate a pregnancy because of your own health concerns. That would have to be one of the most tragic and painful situations imaginable.
The vast majority of pro-life people (myself included) would not want you to have sacrifice your own life to save an unborn child - precisely because we are pro-life. There have to be exceptions for cases such as yours because your life matters, and I'm sorry if in the past your personal concerns have been glibly dismissed.
- Pastor_Jeff said...
I think the sharing of personal stories has been helpful and generated increased understanding and sympathy. Here goes:
Our 5th grader wanted her ears pierced for her birthday, so we took her to Claire's where we had to sign release forms giving them permission to perform an extremely minor and inconsequential medical procedure. We left with aftercare instructions which we have helped her remember and follow.
Right now, abortion is largely unrestricted. Are there parents out there who think it is in your minor daughter's best interests that she is able to undergo a very significant medical procedure with moral implications and long-term emotional effects with less parental oversight and involvement than there is in getting her ears pierced?
Most pro-lifers are opposed to abortion not because they want to control people's bodies, but because abortion hurts people.
- Sally said...
Ooooh, such good things being said! O.K. pull my arm, I'll keep posting.
Yes, I agree with you Pastor Jeff. Abortion does hurt people. But so does bringing an unwanted child to term. IMO, it seems that both the pro-choice and the pro-life movement want to deny the deleterious effects of one or the other as it suits their needs, beliefs or agenda.
- Sally said...
Pastor Jeff,
To illustrate how the pro-choice movement ignores some of the problems with abortion as is, let me share this story:
A young girl at the high school that I worked with had her third abortion when she died. I'm not sure exactly what happened medically, but apparently so many abortion in so little time at such a young age and without parental consent was too much for her wee body. If her parents had known what was going on, I'm sure some sort of intervention would have taken place in this girl's life and perhaps she would still be living. However, stories of frightened and alone young girls who partake in life threatening scenarios in order to abort w/o parental consent are also horrifying.
- Pastor_Jeff said...
Thanks for your even-handed response. You wrote:
stories of frightened and alone young girls who partake in life threatening scenarios in order to abort w/o parental consent are also horrifying.
I agree. It's sad that there are family situations such that minors would risk their own safety to avoid telling their parents they were in trouble. That's why notification laws are usually structured to allow for a judge or other responsible adult to provide consent for minors. Most minors probably don't know this.
And Christians are involved in helping young women with unplanned pregnancies. Our local pregnancy resource center has a room stocked with clothes, diapers, strollers, blankets, formula, toys, and more - all free, and all donated by Christians. We have free classes in parenting, basic financial management, and job skills; we provide counseling, referrals to adoption agencies, and even housing. I know a number of people who have taken young women into their homes and treated them like family, or invested months of their time and quite a bit of money mentoring, encouraging, and supporting young women who give up their children for adoption.
Perhaps it's a little unfair to say that Christians are either uninformed or uncaring of the problems associated with unplanned pregnancies and adoption?
- michael a litscher said...
Adoption is not necessarilly a wonderful thing for everyone.
It was and is a wonderful thing for me. You see, I was adopted. My very existence proves that there is a third choice, a choice which the pro-abortionists are too myopic to consider, or even mention in their arguments.
I have spoken to women who lived in the day and age in the U.S. when abortion was illegal, and so opted for adoption. As far as I can see, these women are haunted far more than my friends who have had abortions, which of course, can also be devestating.
I have a dog, whom I love very much. If faced with the situation that I had to give him up, for whatever reason, and my two choices were to kill the dog, or let it be adopted by some anonymous family and never to be seen again, I would choose to adopt him out without hesitation.
To me, it doesn't seem at all "feminine" to not only choose to kill your own progeny, but to pay someone to do it while it's still inside your womb.
Likewise, it doesn't seem all that "masculine" to abandon a woman after she's been knocked up.
- aidan maconachy said...
I don't understand the hysteria that exists in some quarters about this issue of abortion.
The "pro" and "anti" positions are equally unbalanced because they stake out simplistic positions. I see abortion as being a complex issue that has to be looked at in the context of the individual woman's health and circumstances, rather than from the standpoint of intractible political or theological positions.
The anti-abortion rights people make a big deal about the Christian ethical position. Yet I see no comment from Jesus at all on this matter in the New Testament. Neither is this included in the Ten Commandments. At best, it is an interpretation derived from scripture. But a different interpretation from scripture could be made by one who argues that compelling a fifteen year old victim of rape to bring a baby to term is equally ethically repugnant and un-Christian.
My position is that you simply can't make dogmatic assertions on this issue - on one side or the other.
I don't want to see a country in which women in trouble are forced to go into back alleyways to get abortions. By the same token I don't want free standing clinics on every corner where "abortion traffic" is considered normal.
There needs to be a sane and compassionate balance between these two extremes.
- andrew said...
Thank God for this sane debate!
I am pro-choice, but hate that the pro-choice movement can't admit that a fetus is in some sense a life. But then, to both sides THIS IS WAR, and I presume that pro-choice leaders feel they will quickly slide down the slippery slope and must hold the line. They feel they can't afford to be totally honest and nuanced, because the cost of a return to criminalized abortion is too high.
Here is the big picture for me: we need universal sex education and contraception, universal free daycare, tons of support for all parents and children, and men should somehow, magically, be made equally responsible for any children they spawn, and parents will all be involved in their children's lives as trusted counselors. Abortions would become exceedingly rare, which would make everyone happy, because who likes abortions? I hope this is true someday. But it is so, so far from true now. From my perspective, the conservative pro-life party will always be undermined and de-legitimized because of all it does to dismantle sex education, public education, welfare, the safety net in general. It is clearer than ever to me, because of this blog, that there are rational and caring pro-life people who care about children AFTER they are born as well. It is a shame that the other kind get so much press and become the face of the movement.
- Sally said...
I have to add one more thing to this, yes "sane!" debate, if anyone is still checking back that is, but I just thought of this.
Again, I'm coming from a pro-choice position, and I haven't really changed my perception of that, but I do agree with the above comments, that I would like abortion to stop being this very common form of birth control.
At any rate, I just checked out images of fetal development via google, and I was very very surprised at the rapid development, how human they look, even at 7 weeks, let alone 20 weeks. But what this got me thinking about is science. Liberals tend to support science, and the pro-choice position is a liberal position. So how come young girls don't see images of fetal development, before and while they are beginning sexual intercourse? For that matter, why don't young boys, so that they may understand what they are asking of a woman, when someday, some of them may pressure their girlfriends to have abortions? Why deny the science? No one can say when life truly begins, but why deny the science, the physical reality, of fetal development?


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Custom Build Your Swing Set!
With the innovative Pioneer Swing Set, you can customize and build your own swing set according to your liking and needs. The Project 150 kit comes along with the basic supplies you'll need to build the set, aside from any lumber. You can choose from the optional accessories available to further customize you set according to what you and your children will like best. And to assist you with any questions you may have regarding assembly, and you can reach the manufacturer's customer service representatives during regular business hours, and weekends as well between April and Labor Day. Happy Building and Happy Playing!
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CSS Pocket Reference 87
|CSS Pocket Reference, 3rd Edition
|Eric A. Meyer
|O'Reilly Media
|Michael J. Ross
|A concise reference book for CSS.
Despite the growth in the number of elements in CSS, and the attention paid to each one of them by the author of CSS Pocket Reference, the book is still small enough to fit in a pocket, at only 168 pages. The book's material is organized into 18 unnumbered sections, preceded by some notes on the book's typographical conventions, and followed by an essential index. The bulk of the material is found in the Property Reference section. Other sections explain how to add styles to HTML and XHTML pages; CSS rule structure and style precedence, including inheritance and the cascade; element classification and display roles; visual layout; rules on floating and positioning; and table layout. Subsequent sections cover CSS value types and units, and selectors, including some of the newest additions to CSS, such as the adjacent sibling selector and the language attribute selector. Just before getting into the details on properties, Eric Meyer discusses pseudo-classes and pseudo-elements, which have made it possible for Web developers to create rather robust and attractive site navigation using CSS exclusively, without any need to resort to images and JavaScript for rollover effects and other navigation eye candy.
For each element of CSS that is covered in all of the sections mentioned above, the types of information presented to the reader can vary, depending upon the category of element. But they generally include the element's possible values, a default value, what elements it can apply to, whether it is inherited, its computed value, a brief description of the element, at least one example illustrating its usage, what browsers support it, and oftentimes a note on its usage. Consequently, this new edition of the book, like its predecessors, should prove more than adequate for most CSS reference needs.
As with any computer book, there are several ways in which this one could be improved. Any reader using the book to look up a particular element, has two possible ways of doing so: They could first consult the index, and, assuming the element is listed there, go straight to the page indicated. But most readers, knowing that the elements in each section are listed alphabetically, will probably open up the book near the front or the back, and begin flipping backward or forward, respectively, hoping to spot the element of interest as quickly as possible, given its alphabetical ordering. That individual will likely immediately spot an obvious problem with the book: The pages have no running titles (the words that indicate the first element discussed on that page, and typically listed at the very top of each page). Inclusion of such running titles in the next edition of the book, would make it much faster to use.
Another valuable addition would be some sort of table listing all of the CSS elements and their level of support within the most commonly used Web browsers and, in the case of Internet Explorer, the most commonly used versions of the browser. Also, on page 48 of the book, at the beginning of the Property Reference section, it has a subhead of "Visual Media," which suggests that there are other subheads within that section, for other media types; but I was unable to find any.
All of these problems concern the publisher's choice of material. My last criticism concerns the layout of that material in the print version of the book. Because this diminutive volume has narrow pages, and they are tightly glued together in the binding, it is imperative that the publisher of such a book provide plenty of white space in the inner margins (those closest to the binding), so the reader does not have to crack open the book too much in order to read the text closest to the binding. Repeatedly opening up the book far enough to read those inmost words, will over time weaken and eventually destroy the binding. In contrast, a small reference book like this has no need for much outer margin. Sadly, O'Reilly got it backwards with this volume, with relatively wide and useless outer margins, and inadequate inner margins.
Aside from the aforementioned flaws — all of which can be remedied in the future — CSS Pocket Reference is a compact and neatly organized gem of a book, packed with information of value to busy Web programmers.
Michael J. Ross is a Web developer, writer, and freelance editor.
You can purchase CSS Pocket Reference, 3rd Edition from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.


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DENVER (AP) -- Thousands of people are expected to join an unofficial counterculture holiday celebrating marijuana in Colorado and Washington this coming weekend.
And the events and crowds will likely test the limits of new laws permitting pot use by adults.
More than 50,000 are expected to light up outdoors in Denver's Civic Center Park on April 20 to celebrate marijuana legalization. Thousands more are headed to Denver for the nation's first open-to-all Cannabis Cup, April 20-21.
Marijuana activists consider April 20 a day to celebrate the drug and push for broader legalization.
Marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and its sale without a doctor's recommendation isn't allowed yet in Colorado or Washington.
Neither state allows open and public use of the drug. But authorities largely look the other way at public pot-smoking.


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Wounded Knee Creek Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, South Dakota. December 29, 1890, the last battle of the American Indian wars. This is the story.
On the day before the battle, a detachment of U.S. 7th Cavalry Regiment intercepted Spotted Elks band of Lakotas. They were escorted to Wounded Knee Creek where they made camp. The remainder of the 7th Cavalry arrived, led by Colonel James Forsythe, and his four Hotchkiss guns (rapid fire).
At daybreak on the morning of December 29, the troops entered the Lakota camp to disarm them. Things went downhill from there. There were 350 Native Americans, of whom all but 120 were women and children, compared to 500 soldiers. A search of the camp confiscated 38 rifles, and more recovered as the soldiers searched the Indians. Most of the old men were unarmed, but the young men were becoming agitated and the tension was spreading to the officers.
Although the cause of the fight is still debated, according to some accounts a medicine man (Yellow Bird) began the Ghost Dance (reiterating his assertion to the Lakota that ghost shirts were bulletproof). Tensions mounted further, and when Black Coyote refused to give up his rifle (he was deaf and did not understand the order), he was seized from behind, and in the struggle his rifle discharged. Five young Lakota men with concealed weapons immediately threw aside their blankets and fired at the troops. After this the firing became indiscriminate.
At first the struggle was fought at close range. Half of the Indian men were killed before they could get off any shots. Some of the Indians grabbed rifles they had been hiding, but while this phase was fought at close range it lasted a few minutes at most. Other soldiers then used the Hotchkiss gun against the tipe camp full of women and children. They fled, seeking shelter in a ravine. The officers had lost any control over their own men. Some fanned out across the battlefield and finished off wounded Indians, while others leaped onto their horses and pursued the Lakota men, women and children.
The fighting lasted less than an hour. At least 150 Lakota were killed and 50 wounded. Some historians place the actual number killed at 300. Army casualties were 25 dead and 39 wounded.
Following a three day blizzard the military hired civilians to bury the dead Lakota. The burial party found the deceased frozen and they were gathered up and placed in a common grave on a hill overlooking the encampment. Colonel Forsythe was relieved of his command, however following an Army Court of Inquiry, which criticized Forsythe for his tactical dispositions, but otherwise exonerated him of responsibility, he was reinstated to command the 7th Cavalry.
The American public reaction to the battle was generally favorable; many living near the reservation viewed it as the defeat of a murderous cult.
Interestingly enough, the Army awarded twenty Medals of Honor for the actions at Wounded Knee. In contrast, only three Medals of Honor were awarded among the 64,000 South Dakotans who fought for four years of World War II.
In 1903 a monument was erected at the grave site, and the Wounded Knee Battlefield was declared a U.S. National Historic Landmark in 1965.


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Asian Pacific Law Students Association
The Asian Pacific Law Students Association serves the interests and needs of students with ethnic and/or cultural ties to Asia and the Pacific Rim. Sponsoring symposiums, workshops, and social events, the organization heightens awareness of Asian Americans in the legal community. Through active participation, members derive a sense of self-empowerment, while developing invaluable leadership skills.
Student Leaders
- President: Jyoshu Tsushima
- Vice President: Silhan Jin
- Secretary: James Hux
- Treasurer: Larry Fathman


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Priests and seminarians studying at Rome's pontifical universities and institutions are warming up for season two of the Clericus Cup, which kicks off in a couple days. The immensely popular soccer series was established late last year by the Catholic Italian Sports Center and was based on a brainstorm idea by the Vatican's "numero uno" soccer fan, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone.
But first some new news: seminarians are also going to get a chance to fine tune their shooting skills — swishing nets, that is. A new basketball tournament is going to be unveiled soon (though it won't be played in St. Peter's Square like the game shown here in 1955). An Italian Sports Center representative recently confirmed a rumor I had heard that the seminarians were expanding their priestly sports series to include hoops. He said the new basketball tournament was expected to be announced in February. So heads up: priests can jump!
Now, rebound back to soccer: An all-new lineup is in store featuring 16 teams with players from 50 different nations. The new season will open on Tuesday as players from the Legionaries of Christ's Mater Ecclesiae go head to head against players from Rome's major seminary.
The North American College team (check out this video on YouTube), which showed surprisingly strong performances during the first season, is due to vie again for the coveted Clericus Cup. The 2007 trophy was nabbed by undefeated champions Redemtoris Mater — the Neocatechumenal Way's Rome seminary.
A few of the technical differences between Clericus Cup games and regular league soccer? Aside from players and fans having lots more spirit, Clericus Cup soccer games run 30-minute halves instead of 45-minute halves. Referees also have another penalty option. In addition to the yellow warning card and the red expulsion card, they can flash a blue card, which requires an overly aggressive player to leave the field for five minutes … presumably to pray for more patience.


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Connecticut AG Opts For Street View Settlement, Without Seeing the Data 93
theodp writes "Verifying Google's data snare is crucial to assessing a penalty and assuring no repeat,' said Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal last December in response to Google's 'accidental' collection of payload data from WiFi networks. 'We will fight to compel Google to come clean-granting my office access to improperly collected materials and protecting confidentiality, as the company has done in Canada and elsewhere.' That was then. Luckily for Google, there's a new AG in town, and Blumenthal successor George Jepsen said Friday that his office will enter into settlement negotiations with the company without reviewing the pilfered data, which Google has steadfastly refused to share with it. 'This is a good result for the people of Connecticut,' Jepsen said in a statement. A separate Jepsen press release suggested some of the blame for the privacy offenses laid with Google's victims, who were advised to 'turn off your wireless network when you know you won't use it' to thwart those who 'may be watching your Internet activity without your knowledge."


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Manchester United's rebuilding project continues apace, with Luke Shaw due to have a medical ahead of a proposed move from Southampton.
Having completed the signing of Ander Herrera earlier on Thursday, it now seems as if the highly-rated 18-year-old defender will soon be following the Spaniard into Old Trafford.
Press Association Sport understands that Shaw is due to have a medical at the club's training ground as his much-mooted move to United edges closer.
The deal could reportedly see the full-back become the most expensive teenager of all time - a lofty price tag which comes thanks to his fine performances for club and now country.
Shaw established himself as one of the hottest prospects in world football after coming through Southampton's fabled academy, attracting admiring glances from many, including boyhood club Chelsea.
Despite not turning 19 until July 12, the left-back has already racked up 60 appearances in the Barclays Premier League and three England caps.
Shaw made his Three Lions debut in the friendly against Denmark in March and usurped idol Ashley Cole in Roy Hodgson's pecking order, leading the experienced left-back to call time on his international career.
The 18-year-old was one of few positive points from a miserable World Cup campaign and became the youngest player to feature at the tournament when he started Tuesday's goalless draw with Costa Rica.
After that match it was put to Shaw that he perhaps needed to be playing Champions League football to feel comfortable on the world stage.
That kind of experience would not come if he was to move to United this season - but was not something he deemed particularly important to being a success with England anyway.
"You can't really say that because you look at the other teams and they haven't all got Champions League players, have they?" Shaw said.
"I don't know. Obviously Champions League would help, playing against world-class players, but you can't just say that because you look at other teams that have gone through the groups and they haven't got all Champions League players.
"I don't know. I think we'll have a look at it and just try to move on in the coming few months."
Shaw will be competing with Patrice Evra for the left-back role at Old Trafford after the France international penned a one-year contract extension last month.
Last season's back-up Alexander Buttner looks set to move to Dinamo Moscow imminently, joining Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic in leaving as the club look to kick on after a miserable season.
United limped to a seventh-place finish last term, resulting in David Moyes losing his job and Holland coach Louis van Gaal coming in as his replacement.
Source: PA


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When I spoke with DICE GM Karl Magnus Troedsson, the first handful of questions I threw at him during my extremely short ten minute interview were focused on Shack community questions. Questions that revolved around things like spawn mechanics and dedicated servers. Unfortunately, DICE isn't showing its hand at this time. Presumably, the game is still too far off to discuss how it will function at launch. On the specific subject of dedicated servers Troedsson said that although DICE isn't talking about that at this time he reminds me that it's something they have done in the past. "[DICE believes] that its crucial for the experience." Ending that line of questioning by saying that Shackers "can bet on it." This isn't the last we'll see of Battlefield 3. This was only the debut and we're going to be following up on every critical piece of multiplayer information we get. Because at the end of the day, even though Battlefield 3 looks to sport an action-packed single-player experience, multiplayer is at the heart of the series.
Battlefield 3 is coming to PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 this fall.


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- Parent Category: News
Flagpole dedication in Kankakee on Veterans Day
The dedication of a new flagpole at Governor Small Memorial Park in Kankakee (Monday) was part of the area's Veterans Day ceremonies.
Several community events were conducted, most led by American Legion and VFW Posts. The colors were presented at Governor Small Park. The flagpole in located in the park's Liberty Freedom Garden.
Other Veterans Day observances were held in Bradley, Momence, Hoopeston, Paxton, Gibson City, Danville, and at South Newton High School in Kentland, IN.


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WBUR News
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Merger Of American Airlines and US Airways Will Create World's Largest Carrier02:59Play
The boards of US Airways Group and AMR have approved the merger of American Airlines and US Airways. The resulting company will become the world's largest airline. American is in bankruptcy, so its creditors will own a big chunk of the new company and US Airways shareholders will own the rest.
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NEW HAVEN, Conn. – The Yale women's swimming and diving team opened their 2013-14 season on Friday afternoon with a victory over Southern Connecticut State University. They defeated the visiting Owls by a score of 204-77.
The Bulldogs began the day by going 1-2 in the 200-yard medley relay, with freshman Kina Zhou, sophomore Ali Stephens-Pickeral, freshman Sydney Hirschi and freshman Olivia Jameson teaming up to finish first in 1:47.13 and freshman Michelle Chintanaphol, junior Elizabeth Larsen, sophomore Kasey Mann and freshman MacKenzie Franklin coming in second in 1:50.42. Larsen notched a win in the next event, the 1000-yard freestyle, putting up a time of 11:00.14.
In the 200-yard freestyle, sophomore Emma Smith paced a 1-2-3 finish for the Bulldogs, finishing first in 1:55.96, ahead of freshman Elizabeth Fosburgh in 1:57.41 and sophomore Emily Gudbranson in 1:58.21. Zhou won the 100-yard backstroke, finishing in 59.18 and Stephens-Pickeral won the 100-yard breaststroke in 1:08.21.
The meet featured a string of strong performances by the freshmen on the Yale squad. Isla Hutchinson-Maddox won the 200-yard butterfly in 2:03.06, Jameson won both the 50- (24.32) and 100-yard freestyle (52.88) and Hirschi won the 200-yard breaststroke in 2:26.80.
In addition to her win in the 200-yard free, Smith won the 200-yard backstroke in 2:08.95. Sophomore Eva Fabian won the 500-yard freestyle, an event in which she holds the Yale record, in a time of 5:02.22.
Overall, it was a very strong early-season performance from a young Bulldogs squad.
The Bulldogs are back in action next Friday, Nov. 15, when they travel to Columbia to open their Ivy League dual season. Competition is scheduled to begin at 5:00 P.M.
Report filed by Lyon Van Voorhis '15, Yale Sports Publicity.


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WASHINGTON, D.C. U.S. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers and her husband, Brian Rodgers, have added a girl to their family.
The 5th District congresswoman gave birth to a daughter, Brynn Catherine Rodgers, on Nov. 24. She weighed 7 pounds, 6 ounces.
She joins a brother, Cole, 6, and sister Grace, 2.
The baby's birth was announced Nov. 25 via McMorris Rodgers' Instagram account and later by her campaign and congressional offices.
"Nothing compares to the miracle of bringing a new life into the world," McMorris Rodgers wrote on Instagram. "She's beautiful and seems to be taking it all in stride. Our hearts are full."
The five-term representative is the fourth-ranking Republican in the U.S. House. She is chairwoman of the House Republican Conference.
Mom and baby are doing "very well," spokesman Nate Hodson said. "She looks forward to continuing her duties as House Republican Conference chair and running again for re-election next year to Washington's 5th District."
McMorris Rodgers is the first to give birth three times while serving in Congress, and the first to do so while serving in leadership.
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This weekend, my Dolphins column is about Jason Taylor and his current situation as an unrestricted free agent.
That situation is simple: Taylor can go to New England Patriots, chasing the brass ring that comes with a promised championship -- although that promise never really holds, it seems. Or Taylor can do the other thing, the interesting thing, the harder thing.
He can return to the Dolphins.
Why is coming back to Miami the harder thing? Well, it could not happen without a promise from Taylor that he is committed to working hard in the offseason conditioning program, which he didn't do last year.
The Dolphins would not come with the likelihood of competing for a Super Bowl, as the Patriots do. But I think we learned last year one should not underestimate this Dolphins organization under Bill Parcells and the Patriots are one Tom Brady injury away from being out of the playoffs.
The Dolphins, would, however come with the idea of giving Taylor his best opportunity to end his career on a high point. That high point would be tied to him working diligently this offseason on getting ready for the season. That high point would be tied to him being part of a pass rush that includes Joey Porter and the young pass-rushers the Dolphins plan to add in the draft. That high point would be tied to giving an imaginative Miami coaching another weapon.
That high point would also come for Taylor as playing in Miami would give him the opportunity to stay close to his family, which he is said to covet.
We'll soon see what drives Taylor when he decides where to go. The decision will tell you what is important to him.
Is it purely about getting with the team most likely -- on paper at least -- to win? Or is it about working hard during the offseason as well as the regular-season, being close to his family, and playing for the team he says he loves?
We'll see


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Is this a normal letter to get from the kids school?!?!?
- 956 Replies
Good Morning Parents,
It has been a tradition at ------------ to give the teachers $$$ to spend while our little ones are waiting for Santa to arrive.
I would like to start a collection this week through Tuesday of next week. If everyone could please bring $20.00 per child this would cover giving both (teacher 1)and (teacher 2) $200.00 each. As well, if you want to bring them something else please feel free to do so.
It is the Holiday spirit and there is no time like now to thank those who watch over our little ones while we are at work.
This collection would only be for our room teachers.
I hope that we can count everyone in again this year. Please drop a check ( preferably ) for $20.00 in an envelope in Hunter's box at school. Again, I will start collecting today through next Tuesday. That way, we can give it to them during our classroom party right after the performance.
Thank you all in advance for giving!
that would put me off. i don't like that kind of obligated solicitation. i get that it's for a good cause, but way to put everyone in a monetary confinement.
Wow! I have never seen such a request like this before.
yeah......NO.....lol..that's a first for me.
Who the hell wrote this letter??!!