text:
Is independence a viable option for BYU, or should Cougars focus on getting into Big 12?
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 19, 2014 2:49 p.m.
@mormon ute
What you "see" from your standpoint really doesn't matter, it is what recruits see. No utah does not have a legacy, those ar ebuilt over decades not over a couple of good years during one decade. It simply is not the same and it is your crimson goggles that keep you from realizing it.
That said utah will never match BYU in the things that make a legacy, i.e. national fanbase, heisman, doak walker, davy o'brien, a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, hall of famers, All Americans, national rankings, etc.
The fact is those are the things that make a legacy and while I am not claiming BYU's legacy is the equivalent of USC's or Aabama's it certainly matches up well with all but the very few elite schools in the country and no utah will never match it, if you think they will get all of those accolades then I think maybe you need to take those goggles off.
Where a program is on any one year, or even over a 4 year span, does not equate to what has been established over several decades. It just doesn't. Sorry.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 18, 2014 9:53 a.m.
I'll give you the bigger national audience and church affiliation advantages, but as far as legacy the U has closed the gap considerably having been the first BCS busting team and the first to do it twice. That had a lot to do with the Pac 12 invite. Utah has also been very competitive with BYU, since Ron McBride was the coach. That's been over 20 years now and has included a lot of bowl games, conference titles and wins over BYU. The U doesn't have to concede much of anything to BYU anymore. Most of BYU's wins today come against the same kind of teams the U was beating before joining the Pac 12. I know your blue goggles don't let you see the good things going on at the U, but from my standpoint the only thing BYU has over the U is the Honor Code. If a kid wants that, he's going to have to go to BYU. Harvey Langi is proof of that. The Honor Code is the only reason he gave in his own statement to Vai for wanting to transfer.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 17, 2014 5:37 p.m.
@Mormon Ute
Maybe, maybe not as far as BYU having more success than those two but BYU has some advantages neither of them have. Like it or not BYU is a bigger name than either and has had far more success over a much longer period of time. Both utah and tcu are fairly new at even being decent teams and have no real legacies like BYU has. Nor does either have the built in advantage of having the church affiliation BYU has which automatically gives it a fair number of good recruits. I know those facts infuriate utah fans but they are facts. No BYU is not notre dame but they are much more accomplished than those two.
If BYU were to ever join one of those conferences it would certainly offset the one major reason LDS recruits, and a lot of instate kids, have for wanting to go to utah. I've stated before that affiliation is the ONLY advantage utah has over BYU unless the recruit is not a kid that wants to live BYU standards. Maybe short term BYU would be no better but long term they almost certainly would, to many advantages over those two.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 17, 2014 4:42 p.m.
I think BYU would have the same experience Utah and TCU have had. You refer to it as a 'honeymoon'. They would initially benefit in recruiting just from the membership in the conference, but after struggling for a few seasons would then see a drop off. There is no way BYU would have any better success in it's first few years than the other two top MWC teams have had in making the transition.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 17, 2014 3:21 p.m.
@Mormon Ute
Both would benefit from better recruiting but what I take from this is that joining a so called "power 5" conference doesnt give a lasting recruiting upsurge, it has to be combined with actually performing in that conference which utah hasnt done, and the recruiting has steadily dropped with the drop in wins.
I have made the point many times that utah was getting a "honeymoon" period from their fans and recruits but that it would not sustain itself unless utah could be at the top of the pac12 rather than the bottom. Well they have sunk closer to the bottom each season and the recruiting ranking has dropped each season and there is unrest in the fanbase. whittingham was once a saint to utah "fans", he is now being vilified by many of them, second guessed, and flat out having his job called for. Deservedly so IMO.
Instate and LDS recruits were initially enamored with the pac12 affiliation but that has more than worn off for many of them. Non "power" BYU still gets most of the top LDS and enough of the top instate. With a power 5 membership BYU might get ALL of them.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 17, 2014 10:21 a.m.
Given the fact that at least one ranking service has Utah still ahead and the rankings are all within a few places of each other, I'd say BYU caught up, but really didn't surpass the U. Now it will be interesting to see what impact this has. I attribute the change mostly to the U's struggles in the Pac 12 and I think with the new coaching staff and hopefully more stability at key positions that will change over the next several seasons. As I have always said, I look forward to the rivalry resuming in 2016. It will be fun to see if the two teams are further apart or about the same and which direction each has gone by then. Going back to the topic of this article, I would say recruiting is one thing BYU would definitely benefit from in getting into a P5 conference. The Ute's definitely saw an uptick that started with the Fiesta Bowl win and continued through the Sugar Bowl win and Pac 12 membership.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 17, 2014 8:32 a.m.
@Mormon Ute
I'll take your word for it but it still confirms what I said to you that this last year BYU not only caught but surpassed utah in the recruit rankings.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 16, 2014 3:20 p.m.
Ya gotta love technology, Duckhunter. So I followed your instructions and got exactly the results you said. Then I tried it again searching the way I have been searching. I Googled 2014 College Football Recruiting Class Rankings, then scrolled down to 247 Sports and clicked on it. That took me to a page that looks identical to the one you directed me too, except for the teams were in different order. I checked everything on the page including the date it was last updated and it looked like the most recent version. The problem is the page you directed me too also had today's date on it. So I don't know which they consider to be their most recent one and I don't know which to rely on. Somebody with more internet and computer knowledge than me will have to explain how this happens, but this just illustrates what I always tell my kids about not believing everything you see on the internet.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 16, 2014 11:28 a.m.
@mormon ute
Anyone can go and look and anyone can go and see it. Of course I won't admit I "am wrong" when I am not and anyone at all can go and see that I am not. Just to humor you I went again to all of the sites and looked under the team rankings for 2014 and once again every single one of them, including 247, has it ranked exactly the way I posted here. That was in the last few minutes that I checked them.
Let me help you. Google 247sports and then click on "Team Rankings" It will bring up 2015 because that is current in the upper left corner. If you click on 2015 it will drop down a list of other years. click on 2014. The list will appear and all you have to do is scroll down thorugh it and there it is plain as day. BYU ranked 64th and utah below them ranked 66th.
It is plain to see, black and white, clear as day.
2BCSWINS West of I15, UTJuly 16, 2014 9:17 a.m.
@sports authority....."The BYU jealousy that you mock is nothing compared to the jealousy of the kids on the hill to BYU's Crystal Football National Championship trophy."
Let's see would I rather have my team have an undefeated season against 0 ranked teams barley beat a 6-6 Michigan team in holiday bowl and be the sole reason the BCS was formed or have undefeated season against several ranked teams and a dominating sugar bowl victory over bar none the best college football program the last 10 years Alabama.
Yes pretty easy decsion there so again the cougie "fans" jealousy of that is classic, love it!! LOL!
2BCSWINS West of I15, UTJuly 16, 2014 8:39 a.m.
@Ducky...."Those are completely different subjects, and not what you falsely tried to call me out for. Also the fact BYU gets more highly rated recruits is not a "recent issue due to the Ute's struggles in the Pac 12" it is an 'it's ALWAYS been that way issue' based on BYU having been the superior program for such a long time and BYU's advantage with LDS kids that are highly ranked recruits."
Ducky who cares either way your mighty cougies can't beat Utah on the field where it matters....LOL! I love how jealous you are of the utes and how much it eats at you the cougies can't beat utah....LOL!
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 15, 2014 4:13 p.m.
Don't be patronizing. It only serves to further the bad image many in the media say is keeping BYU out of a major conference.
I any case, no matter what you post here I already told you what I saw and what you are posting from 247 isn't what I see when I go to their site. As I said, the date on the sight I was looking at was 7/13/2014 so I can only conclude you are looking at old data before the recruiting period had ended. Of course I know you're never going to admit you've been wrong, even if you actually see it in front of your face.
Cougsndawgs West Point , UTJuly 15, 2014 2:44 p.m.
I've been gone for a bit...just caught up.
MyPersective and others...it seems you misunderstood what I was saying about BYU bringing more value than a possible partner. I wasn't trying to say that's the only reason they aren't in, just one of a few. You accused me of arrogance & hubris to say such a thing, and yet that is one of the reasons given by other pundits, including Frank the Tank who has often been referred to in expansion predictions, and has often been right. BYU does bring a lot of value...there isn't another candidate available (unless P5 schools decide to forget about the GOR agreements() that brings the same value. That's a fact...name one that does. Other reasons I gave were geography, a reputation for being difficult, Sunday play. Or did you choose to ignore those? Honestly MP, sometimes I think you get an idea in your head of what BYU fans think and then follow that stereotype to evaluate what one (myself in this case) is trying to express. Bring on August please...
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 15, 2014 2:11 p.m.
It's pretty simply Mormon Ute, all you do is go to the recruiting sites then go to Team Rankings, once you pull those up you put it on the year you want to see, in our case here that is 2014 because the last years class all signed in February 2014. Then you simply look at the list of rankings. I'll save you the trouble because it appears you are struggling with it.
utah #69
utah #64
247 Sports
utah #66
utah #67
So two of the sites (rivals and scout) give recruits an average star rank. Here those are for both schools recruits.
utah 2.65
utah 2.63
Average for both
utah 2.64
So for individual recruits BYU's outranked utah's by .07
Anyway you look at it I was correct. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're confused.
Now neither of them were ranked all that high, and they were close to each other on all 4 sites but when 3 of the 4 sites rank BYU h
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 15, 2014 12:48 p.m.
It's too bad the DNews won't let us post links, because it is obvious you and I are looking at different numbers and I can't explain it. I have checked the same sources you have cited and I am checking for the most recent updates to their data. Still the only one that consistently supports your claim is Scout.com. All I can say is we'll have to leave that argument up in the air.
One fact that can't be disputed is this. The Utes have done well with the talent they have. Two undefeated seasons ending in BCS bowl wins and top 10 rankings in the past 9 years along with 6 wins over BYU during that time is a decent run. If we believe the recruiting numbers you claim, Utah has accomplished far more during the past 8 years with lesser talent than BYU has.
TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VAJuly 15, 2014 12:06 p.m.
"The jealousy you have of the utes litterally[sic] makes my day...LOL"
The BYU jealousy that you mock is nothing compared to the jealousy of the kids on the hill to BYU's Crystal Football National Championship trophy.
Uteanymous Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 15, 2014 9:26 a.m.
BYU and Utah compete throughout the season on a national scale.
Unfortunately for U, that usually equates to BYU having a better overall record, a higher national ranking, and more success overall than the Utes.
AP Top 25
Bronco 4
Kyle 2
11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3
Kyle 1
Conference Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1
Bowl Games
Bronco 9
Kyle 7
All accomplishments that are indeed noticed on a national scale.
Unfortunately for U, hardly anybody outside of the Wasatch Front pays much attention to the annual results of the BYU-Utah slugfest except for watching highlights of the Utes rushing the field three times for one victory over a supposedly mid-major program, which sort of destroys in the national view any myth on the hill about Utah fan indifference to the rivalry.
2BCSWINS West of I15, UTJuly 15, 2014 8:27 a.m.
@Troytown...."I guarantee that NOBODY outside of Uteville would consider Utah to even be in the same stratosphere as Alabama.
Utah's win over Alabama was the equivalent of Appalachian State's win over Michigan.
Nothing more than a fluke upset."
The jealousy you have of the utes litterally makes my day...LOL
@Sky walker....."The only reason Utah fans only want to talk about head-to-head success is because Utah has been dominated by BYU on a national scale, FOREVER.
In fact, BYU's domination has been so complete on a national scale that Utah fans don't even try to dispute it."
Huh?? Did utah and byu play somewhere else on a national scale that we don't know about?? Not sure how a national scale would change the fact that Utah owns the cougies on the field where it actually matters! Not where cougies make things up like national scale to make them feel better....LOL!
Uteanymous Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 15, 2014 8:13 a.m.
It's nice that U padded your early historical record with wins (and losses) against teams like YMCA, Ogden High, Fort Douglas, Salt Lake High, Hawaii Nat'l Guard, Carlisle Indian School, Colorado A.C., 12th Infantry, 9th Cavalry, All Hallows (seriously?), Denver, Colorado Mines, Oregon Short Line, and Utah Alumni (LOL!), but unfortunately for U, Utah never accomplished anything on a national scale in 60+ years of beating up on teams that were even more mediocre than U.
The gravy train eventually ended and U were forced to join a real conference in 1962.
Since then, you've been dominated by a team that has actually accomplished something on a national scale.
LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UTJuly 15, 2014 7:35 a.m.
Overall Record Since 1962
BYU 410-214-4 (66%) > Utah 323-269-4 (55%)
Overall Record Since 1972
BYU 365-158-3 (70%) > Utah 274-216-3 (54%)
Bronco/Kyle era
Overall Record
Bronco 82-34 (71%) > Kyle 75-39 (66%)
AP Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 4 > Kyle 2
11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3 > Kyle 1
Conference Championships
Bronco 2 > Kyle 1
Bowl Games
Bronco 9 > Kyle 7
Of course Utah fans will whine about SOS, but the truth is, Bronco was outperforming Kyle in AP Top 25 finishes, 11+ win seasons, and conference championships BEFORE BYU became Independent and Utah moved to the PAC 12.
LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UTJuly 15, 2014 7:20 a.m.
Overall means on a national scale - something practically non-existent on the hill
National Championships
BYU 1 > Utah 0
Heisman Trophies
BYU 1 > Utah 0
AP Top 25 Finishes
BYU 17 > Utah 5 (it took Utah 100 seasons to crack the AP poll for the first time)
National Hall of Fame Players
BYU 6 > Utah 0
National Individual Award Winners
BYU 15 > Utah 0
Conference Championships in a conference someone younger than your great-grandfather remembers
BYU 23 > Utah 6
Bowl Games
BYU 32 > Utah 17
11+ Win Seasons
BYU 11 > Utah 2
10+ Win Seasons
BYU 16 > Utah 6
Head-to-head since 1962
BYU 29 > Utah 23
Head-to-head since 1972
BYU 26 > Utah 16
Typical Broadcaster
ESPN/BYUtv > PAC net/live streaming
Major Independent > Bottom dwelling P5
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 15, 2014 12:16 a.m.
@ Y's little brother
Overall means more than just the 1980's.
Utah: 628–435–31 (.588), 13–4 (.765), 24 conf. titles. Pac-12
BYU: 484–369–26 (.565), 13–18–1 (.422), 23 conf. titles. Mid-Major
Also, 57–34–4
Y's little brother Sandy, UTJuly 14, 2014 10:28 p.m.
It's already been settled; overall, BYU is better.
CDM1525 West Point, UTJuly 14, 2014 7:01 p.m.
It would be nice if these 2 teams could play head to head and settle all of this nonsense once and for all to find out who the better program is. Oh wait......that's been done.
Y's little brother Sandy, UTJuly 14, 2014 6:08 p.m.
"more NFL talent equals better on field success AS A TEAM"
First of all, that completely eliminates BJ as a factor in 2008, doesn't it, since BJ had absolutely ZERO NFL talent.
How do you explain BYU having more overall success than Utah during the Bronco/Kyle era if Utah supposedly had more talent?
AP Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 4
Kyle 2
11+ Win Seasons
Bronco 3
Kyle 1
MWC Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1
Bowl Games
Bronco 9
Kyle 7
Since 2006, Bronco has had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons, than the Utes have had in their entire history.
Overall, even in the greatest period in Utah football history, BYU has still done better overall than Utah. That's not even debatable.
Kyle has had one great, flash-in-the-pan season, and little else.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 5:22 p.m.
Sandy, UT
"Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?"
Let me make it simple for you.
You completely dodged the question.
Brian Johnson was a complete bust in the NFL, in fact, BJ didn't even make an NFL roster.
So please explain the correlation between having the talent to play in the NFL and having the talent to be a very successful player in college.
Why? I never claimed such correlation existed. I even LOL at Jimmer fans that do, like you. I think I made it clear what the correlation was, more NFL talent equals better on field success AS A TEAM.
BJ's NFL rating was slightly below Max Hall. The difference BJ lead a much superior team to an undefeated season, the best mid-major team under BCS rules. Max lead his team to airport celebrations in September.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 14, 2014 4:56 p.m.
I don't know what rankings you're looking at, but I just checked both 247 and ESPN and ESPN had BYU a mere two places higher than Utah and that is only because BYU had 4 more recruits in 2014. So Utah did not have more recruits in 2014 as you have alleged. Also, 247 has Utah 6 places higher than BYU. Scout appears to be the only source in line with your allegations and they have Uath with one more recruit than BYU. I'm really not sure what you are looking at, but it's not what is on the internet today for the services you are claiming to quote. Maybe your data is old and you need to update it. So it is I who is LOL. I urge you to take a look at the current info on those web sites. The pages I'm looking at say they were updated 7/13/2014.
Whatsnu Sandy, UTJuly 14, 2014 4:41 p.m.
"Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?"
Let me make it simple for you.
You completely dodged the question.
Brian Johnson was a complete bust in the NFL, in fact, BJ didn't even make an NFL roster.
So please explain the correlation between having the talent to play in the NFL and having the talent to be a very successful player in college.
btw, the reluctance of Utah fans to discuss any football history prior to the "bcs era", has absolutely nothing to do with the "current era", but everything to do with that fact that Utah has no history worth discussing prior to the "bcs era", and previously little since.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 4:33 p.m.
So I also checked your assertion that utah has had better recruit rankings every year since 2007. Once again false. Only one site "once again the utah homer site rivals) has it ranked that way. ALL of the other sites rank BYU ahead for all of those years other than the 3 I originally said which are 2011,2012,2013.
I understand why utah "fans" only want to refer to the one and only site that claims utah superiority but I think an aggregate is much more reliable and honest. In otherwords 3 sites all grade BYU better for all but those 3 years including last year and only one site grades utah better all those years, and as I've said even that site ranks BYU players higher last year.
Just the facts.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 4:23 p.m.
@Mormon Ute
No I did not include 2015, if I was to do that then rivals has them tied (although once again BYU's recruits are ranked higher individually), scout give utah a slight lead and 247 and espn both rank BYU higher.
I am talking about last February's signing classes. As I put in my other post ever site BYu rivals ranks BYU's higher and even rivals ranks BYU recruits higher individually utah just had more recruits sign.
It is all there for you to see.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 4:20 p.m.
@mormon ute
Rivals was the only site that ranked utah higher than BYU for this last class in February and no surprise as dan sorenson, the utezone homer does those rankings. And even that was only because utah singed more recruits, BYU's average recruit ranked higher than utah's even on rivals.
Scout ranked BYU's class higher. 247 ranked BYU's class higher. ESPN ranked BYU's class higher.
In otherwords as I said BYU passed utah this last signing class, it isn't debatable and anyone can actually look it up on all of those sites and you once again need to do some research before posting so "frantically and emotionally". lol
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 14, 2014 3:41 p.m.
I have realized one of the reasons we differ in our recruiting numbers. You including the 2015 class which I haven't. Of course I made that clear in my posts. I purposely left out the 2015 class, because as you mentioned it still isn't complete so I think it wouldn't be fair to use it in any comparison.
As far as the future goes, I believe coaching and lack of consistent QB play have been the major issues, since we joined the Pac 12. I believe both of those issues have been resolved and the Utes will see a turn around starting with this season. So when we play again in 2016 I don't foresee any problems continuing our on the field winning ways over BYU. I also believe we will become a contender in the Pac 12 South Division about that same year so the timing will be perfect. Yes, you are correct, that is just speculation on my part so we will have to see.
VegasUte Las Vegas, NVJuly 14, 2014 3:31 p.m.
scenic view:
Did a byU fan really say the words "mediocre bowl"? A "mediocre bowl" is the most that byU can EVER hope for as an independent. For 2014, byU is already locked in to the worst bowl of D1, so bad that the MAC gave up their spot in the bowl and that is the ONLY reason byU has a bowl agreement.
Oh, but byU gets to keep all of the proceeds from that bowl because of it's desirous status as an independent, right? Well good luck netting any type of gain after byU pays all related expenses in getting the team, etc to Miami!
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 3:29 p.m.
Actually uteology the 1984 BYU team had almost 30 players that eventually played in the NFL. There were freshman and sophomores that were on that team that spread out over the following 7 years because of missions and reshirts. There were 13 sr's and jr's alone off of that team that played in the NFL.
I would like to see if you can show us a 4 year utah class, freshman through seniors, that has had 30 of its players move on to the NFL. I actually already know the answer to that but it will be more fun to let you research it yourself.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 3:22 p.m.
You refer to that time frame because you think that is what puts utah in the best light. It is obviously cherry picking, something you always accuse BYU fans of doing when they set a date and use that for reference because it puts BYU in the best light.
Honesty is this, utah has won more head to head recently but it has not been a domination, almost all the games have been very close. utah has also had a couple of better seasons recently but overall BYU has still had more good seasons and more rankings during that time. So even in the period you chose to put utah in the best possible light for your argument they still haven't had as many good seasosn and rankings as BYU has.
You can consider utah's last 15 years to be better if you want to and if it helps your fragile ego but it is by no means definitive and in fact a more than credible argument can be made to the contrary.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 14, 2014 3:20 p.m.
Now it is you who has a comprehension issue or you are just trying to revise history for your own benefit. As I posted earlier Utah had a far higher ranked recruiting class in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. That is each of the past four years, not 3 of the past 4. BYU did not surpass Utah in 2014, although they did narrow the gap some. Utah has consistently out recruited BYU for a long time. Since you brought it up, I thought I'd go back even further to see how far I have to go to find a year when BYU had a higher ranked class. I had to go back to 2007 to find one. So that's 7 years straight starting in 2008 the Utes have had higher ranked recruiting classes. The results of that have also been born out on the field as the Utes have beaten BYU 6 of those 7 years. I don't know how I can make it any more clear than that.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 3:15 p.m.
@spokane ute
That might be the most honest post you have ever had. But you are a bit late on that point, I have made it several times as have several other BYU fans. While the big12 acknowledges that BYU add's value they do not add enough value on their own to offset what each of those 10 schools would lose by adding BYU and another school. Plus adding BYU alone only gets them to 11 which does not allow them to add a championship game so they still don't get that money by adding BYU.
There needs to be another school out there that paired with BYU brings in enough more to more than offset a twelve way split instead of a 10 way split. At this point they don't think anyone does that.
Even so who knows if they will invite BYU, there are other factors involved besides just money. Personally I like independence but for better bowl access it is apparent BYU needs to figure something out and if that means a conference affiliation, if an invite ever came, then I think they'll have to do it.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 3:04 p.m.
Just looked, and it seems the 1984 BYU (WAC) team also had 13 players that made NFL rosters.
Again, over the last 4 years BYU has had TWO players drafted.
That should give BYU fans an idea of where BYU talent level was, in the WAC, and where BYU talent level is today.
Spokane Ute Spokane, WAJuly 14, 2014 2:53 p.m.
After googling the subject, and doing a little research. The reason the Big 12 won't invite BYU to join is because they are in the middle of a TV contract. By addition two more teams the revenue would be cut $2 - $3 million per current team. Dividing the pie by 10 pays the current members more than dividing the pie by 12. Also, geographical location is a concern. Once the TV contract expires, BYU may very well get an invite. We shall see.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 2:53 p.m.
Salt Lake City, Utah
"No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then."
No, the reason why U like to pretend that college football history began in 2003, is because Utah's history on a national scale prior to 2003 is non-existent.
And that's why I refer to the BCS era which started in 1998 and the MWC was established in 1999?
Feel free to continue using WAC data. I think on the field results clearly show which data is relevant and which is not.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 2:48 p.m.
@Mormon Ute
As for "who does more with what they have" well I would say utah is going to need to do more with what they have because what they are getting is plummeting, even from the slightly above average stuff they've been getting the last 3-4 years. Their class this year is nothing spectacular, in fact they just got a sorta commit from some 3 star out of California whose only other offers were SJSU and some D2 school. Congratulations? Even at that the kid said he was committing but was still going to "look around and field offers" so how is that for a recruit that is just sold on the ute's no matter what. lol
I think whittingham and co have finally realized that pac12 membership IS NOT going to score utah a bunch of highly rated recruits, it looks to me like they are going back to their proven previous system of finding overlooked kids with potential and trying to develop them. I think it may be to late for whittingham but I guess we'll see.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 2:45 p.m.
"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"
It's hilarious how you have to frantically switch to an entirely difference, and irrelevant, rating system because you crashed and burned with college recruit rating system.
Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?
Let me make it simple so that even BYU fans can understand.
A) Having MORE NFL players equals better results on the national stage
* The Sugar Bowl MVP had a team with SIX NFL players drafted that year, 13 overall that played a significant role on that team.
* BYU has had 2 players drafted over the last 4 years, no wonder you have airport celebrations in September.
B) ALL recruiting sites rank Utah's talent overall better than BYU over the last few years.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 2:29 p.m.
@Mormon Ute
Those are completely different subjects, and not what you falsely tried to call me out for. Also the fact BYU gets more highly rated recruits is not a "recent issue due to the Ute's struggles in the Pac 12" it is an 'it's ALWAYS been that way issue' based on BYU having been the superior program for such a long time and BYU's advantage with LDS kids that are highly ranked recruits.
utah has for 3 of the last 4 years had a higher rated class, although last year BYU passed them back up again but BYU has consistently gotten individual recruits that were more highly ranked. utah's struggles the last few years didn't change something that was previously a utah advantage, utah has never had that advantage, utah just got a small 3 year streak of 3 star heavy classes. We can discuss your other off topic points in another post.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 14, 2014 1:44 p.m.
Richmond, VA
Don't fool yourself. You know and I know BYU is being snubbed by the so called P5 conferences not because they don't think we can compete but simply because they hate Mormons.
Oh boy. Here we go again. *shaking head*
Always a conspiracy theory with you people isn't it?
It couldn't possibly be that the ACC/SEC sees BYU as a non-Power Five opponent... because they are NOT IN THE POWER FIVE, now could it? Why allow BYU? Based on WHAT? If You allow BYU to count, why not Boise... why not Fresno... why not Northern Illinois? Count BYU and the ACC/SEC knows they would have to deal with other mid-majors wanting the same thing.
Do you even realize how ridiculous these whack job conspiracy theories make you guys look?
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 14, 2014 1:40 p.m.
scenic view
Baltimore, MD
So what you're really saying is the networks couldn't care less about Utah and even being in a P5 conference can't help.
I'm not saying anything. I'm refuting a ridiculous claim from a BYU fan who thinks the Pac 12 has some conspiracy to keep Utah off the marquee networks. Because he's mad the P12 took Utah over BYU, he's now trying to make believe that the conference is also spurning Utah, too. It smacks of jealousy and bitter resentment, I agree. But that was his argument.
The networks are not choosing many Utah games right now because Utah is not a very good team right now. They are trending downward in conference play and networks are always looking for the best teams to televise. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.
Whatsnu Sandy, UTJuly 14, 2014 1:22 p.m.
"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"
It's quite obvious that according to Uteology's "NFL ratings" criteria, Brian Johnson wasn't good enough to be a Division 1 starting QB.
Which makes his entire rating argument bogus.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 14, 2014 1:20 p.m.
Heber City, UT
There are these sweet inventions called airplanes that make travel quick, and isn't much different from Austin to Norman than it is than from Provo to Morgantown.
Austin to Norman: 372 miles
Provo to Morgantown: 1,929 miles
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 14, 2014 12:13 p.m.
My pride isn't the issue and I have no reason to slink away. I have proven my point and you have proven the current rosters favor BYU, but as my numbers show that is likely a recent issue due to the Ute's struggles in the Pac 12. A bigger issue is what each coaching staff is able to do with the players they have. Since BYU now has a few more 4 star recruits, let's see what they are able to do with them. Too bad this season won't be a good measuring stick, since there is no head to head game and BYU's schedule is dramatically weaker than Utah's. I'm looking forward to the next game between our two teams and then we will see who has managed to make the most of the talent they were able to get.
Uteanymous Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 11:45 a.m.
"How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?"
It's hilarious how you have to frantically switch to an entirely difference, and irrelevant, rating system because you crashed and burned with college recruit rating system.
Would you like to explain to us the NFL rating for Utah's Sugar Bowl MVP?
Uteanymous Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 11:24 a.m.
"No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then."
No, the reason why U like to pretend that college football history began in 2003, is because Utah's history on a national scale prior to 2003 is non-existent.
It's funny how the "official line of demarcation for "relevance" is defined by the kids on the hill.
NOTHING before 2004 counts in football.
NOTHING after 2005 counts in basketball.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 10:53 a.m.
@mormon ute
But I didn't make a claim that BYU had "recruiting dominance", once again comprehension my friend is important. I said BYU has gotten more "highly ranked recruits" than utah and the rosters prove that. BYU has more "highly ranked" recruits than utah has. It is indisputable. The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion.
You see the recruits are rated on a 5 star system. That means 4 and 5 stars are "highly rated, 1 and 2 stars are lowly rated, and 3 stars are middle of the pack. utah over the last several years has had most of their recruits be 3 stars, BYU has had some lower rated guys but has indisputably had more "highly rated" recruits (4 and 5 star) than utah has.
You're just going to have to swallow your pride and either slink away and never reply or simply aknowledge that you are wrong because the facts show that you are inarguably wrong. Not only that you claimed I said something I didn't just to try to make your false point. lol
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 14, 2014 10:14 a.m.
I didn't make false claims. I responded to your claim that BYU has been attracting higher ranked recruits than Utah for years. So I looked up the past several years of recruiting classes on Yahoo sports which was reporting Rivals rankings. The stats you have re posted aren't an apples to apples comparison, but only a snapshot of the rosters and still doesn't support your claim of BYU out recruiting Utah for years. So you still haven't proven your point although you may have proven BYU currently has more four star recruits on the team, that does nothing to support your overall claim of years of recruiting dominance.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 10:00 a.m.
How does the NFL rate the talent at both schools?
As of today players like Apo, Stout, Rowley, Kaufusi are 4 star players as much as Heaps is a 5 star player.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 9:53 a.m.
Gilbert, AZ
It's laughable that you choose only to compare bowl opponents "in the era just ended", since that's the only "era" in which Utah was a regular bowl participant.
No, the reason WAC data is irrelevant today is because both programs have significantly changed since then.
Unless you are claiming that Utah is the same program we were in the WAC?
I concede that BYU clearly dominated a one team WAC, while Utah was horrendous. We couldn't even compete with BYU those days let alone make bowl games. McBride describes it the best:
"In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10. They used to come into the Utah game always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game."
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 14, 2014 9:27 a.m.
@mormon ute
Ah the irony of your comment "The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion... As you have said to others, do your research." Well I have to thank DeepBlue who already did it for me.
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 3 ( Poutasi, Lutui, Barton)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 12 (Warner, Langi, Kearsley, Hinds, Mangum, Apo, Stout, Rowley, Kaufusi, Wilson, Bills, Hine)
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 7 (Lewis, Hansen, Salt, Thomas, Poutasi, Barton, Scott)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 10 (Warner, Kurtz, Langi, Kearsley, Hinds, Mangum, Apo, Kaufusi, Bills, Matthews)
4 star recruits on Utahs Roster = 2 (Lotulelei, Law)
4 star recruits on BYU's Roster = 9 (Blackmon, Nacua ESPN300, Warner, Kearsley, Hinds, Pauu, Mangum ESPN300, Apo, Kaufusi)
As you can see the only one of the 3 major recruiting sites that even has it close is rivals, the utah "fan" bible, and even they have BYU superior in "high" level recruits. I think the lesson here for you, even though you won't learn it, is do it for yourself before making false claims. lol
talkinsports Gilbert, AZJuly 14, 2014 9:21 a.m.
It's laughable that you choose only to compare bowl opponents "in the era just ended", since that's the only "era" in which Utah was a regular bowl participant.
Spin it anyway that helps you sleep at night, but it won't change these facts:
16 of BYU's 32(50%) bowl opponents finished the season ranked in the Top 25 in both polls.
4 of Utah's 17(24%) bowl opponents finished the season ranked in the Top 25 in both polls.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 14, 2014 2:35 a.m.
In 17 bowl games, Utah has only played 6 pre-bowl AP ranked teams, and the Utes lost to two of those teams.
When was the last time BYU played a top 10 team in a bowl game? I recall it was 1996 about 18 years ago, Utah has done it twice over the last 6 seasons.
In the era that just ended:
* Utah played 4 AP ranked teams in bowl games (two in the top 10)
* BYU played 3 (zero in the top 10)
Utah played tougher teams and were 3-1 (75%) while BYU was 1-2 (33%).
2003: Utah 17 Southern Miss 0 (AP #28 - final #42)
2004: Utah 35 Pitt 7 (#18 - #25)
2005: Utah 38 GTech 10 (#24 - unranked)
2008: Utah 31 Bama 17 (#4 - #6)
2010: Utah 3 Boise 26 (#10 - #9)
2011: Utah 30 GTech 27 (#30 - unranked)
1999: BYU 3 Marshall 21 (AP #11 - final AP #10)
2001: BYU 10 Louisville 28 (#23 - #17)
2005: BYU 28 Cal 35 (#31 - #25)
2011: BYU 24 Tulsa 21 (#34 - unranked)
2012: BYU 23 SDSU 3 (#30 - unranked)
2013: BYU 16 Washington 31 (#33 - #25)
Cosmo1974 Woods Cross, UTJuly 13, 2014 8:03 p.m.
Just because BYU has losing records against teams like Utah and TCU, who are not doing so well in their respective conferences right now, does not mean that BYU would be as bad if they joined a P5 conference. They very well could beat every team their first season, if they ever get to join. While that is not a likely scenario, my point is that no one can say BYU will be a terrible or great team in the Big 12 or any other P5 conference without actually playing the games. You can't use past results to predict future ones.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 13, 2014 4:40 p.m.
The problem is you can't handle it when the facts don't support your opinion. Recruiting class rankings are based on the rating of the recruits in each class. The only way for Utah's classes to be ranked so much higher than BYU is to have more highly ranked recruits than BYU. As you have said to others, do your research. That way your opinion might carry some weight.
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 13, 2014 4:19 p.m.
@ thebigsamoan
You need to check your persecution complex at the door. BYU is not being left out because people dislike the LDS Church. BYU is being left out because they come with a ton of baggage, a huge ego, and they haven't been able to prove that they can consistently compete against P5 teams. Also it has been pointed out that they are in a weird spot. Conferences are all expanding East, not West.
Carson Provo, UTJuly 13, 2014 2:19 p.m.
BYU is not being snubbed by the P5 conferences, they see the Y as a mid major program,(Which it is, and hard to work with too). If the Y was as great as you and other posters imply they would have already been included. It has nothing to do with the persecution claim! BYU's record and history has not impressed the P5 conferences. take the blue goggles off, no invite will be coming. Stop the foolishness, and face the facts!
Rockwell Baltimore, MDJuly 13, 2014 10:18 a.m.
"That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours."
LOL at your extremely disingenuous spin!
In 17 bowl games, Utah has only played 6 pre-bowl AP ranked teams, and the Utes lost to two of those teams.
The ONLY team that dropped out of the AP ranking after losing to Utah was the barely ranked Georgia Tech team you cite as an "example".
thebigsamoan Richmond, VAJuly 13, 2014 9:43 a.m.
Layton, UT
We lost the battles, were rejected everywhere we turned... but... "We won the war!" lol.
Don't fool yourself. You know and I know BYU is being snubbed by the so called P5 conferences not because they don't think we can compete but simply because they hate Mormons. Any other reason is preposterous. BYU's record and history is far superior than most members of the P5 and they have the gall to mocked BYU and consider it as a non factor mid major program? Let's be real! BYU is on the only team outside of the P5 that won a NC and a Heisman Trophy, didn't they? Stop the foolishness!
scenic view Baltimore, MDJuly 12, 2014 11:16 p.m.
"The Pac 12 has absolutely no influence whatsoever which of its games are selected by ESPN and Fox. The only thing they control is P12 Network, which never carries marquee games."
So what you're really saying is the networks couldn't care less about Utah and even being in a P5 conference can't help.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 12, 2014 7:09 p.m.
Palo Alto, CA
Mormon Ute
If Utah is such a competitive, why is Utah routinely ignored, even by their own conference, when it comes to which games national broadcasters choose to televise?
The Pac 12 has absolutely no influence whatsoever which of its games are selected by ESPN and Fox. The only thing they control is P12 Network, which never carries marquee games.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 12, 2014 6:58 p.m.
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Don't fool yourselves. A huge piece of you would die. You couldn't hold the conference affiliation/sticker contest winner over our heads any longer.
Before you get too upset at cool-headed Ute fans, just realize that your entire post is moot.
BYU will never get into a P5 so you'll never have to worry about leveling the playing field with us.
Utah will always be a power conference team. BYU will always be a mid-major. The field will never be level between the two again.
Naval Vet Philadelphia, PAJuly 12, 2014 3:03 p.m.
"Imagine a conference with BYU, Boise, SDSU, Houston, Cincy, UCF, Conn, SMU, Air Force, USU, CSU, S Florida."
I can imagine that. But I imagine that it's pretty sad. Haha! Midmajors forever.
Riverton Cougar Riverton, UTJuly 12, 2014 12:59 p.m.
"That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours."
Interesting that you bring that up. After all, you Ute fans call BYU's schedule weak because they don't beat ranked opponents. However, much of the time BYU beats a ranked opponent who goes unranked because BYU beat them. You guys made that point in 2009, although Oregon State finished unranked because BYU beat them so bad. You can't have it both ways. From my observations, Ute fans pull whatever card suits them at the moment, even if it contradicts previous assertions; recruitment stars (they're important when Utah gets a highly ranked recruit, but not so much when BYU gets one), strength of schedule (if they had a bad record, it's because they had a strong schedule, but if their schedule is weak it is because Utah beats them so their SOS drops), etc.
Speaking of strength of schedules, have you noticed that winning teams have weaker strengths of schedules and losing teams have stronger SOSs? Whose SOS is stronger: Oklahoma's or Kansas'? Alabama's or Vanderbilt's? Oregon's or Colorado's? Just some food for thought.
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 12, 2014 12:38 p.m.
@ DPTCougar
Olympic sports and basketball typically play a series during road games. For example, in basketball Arizona would play UCLA on Thursday and USC on that Saturday or Sunday. Meanwhile Arizona' travel partner, Arizona State, Would play USC on Thursday and UCLA on Saturday or Sunday. Teams don't literally travel together, but playing road games in a series is a great way to minimize travel costs and days of school missed. BYU being so far away, and not having a travel partner is a huge deal.
scenic view Baltimore, MDJuly 12, 2014 10:43 a.m.
Yes, Utah made it to the promised land of P5 membership, so let's what it's gotten U.
4-5 with a mediocre bowl in El Paso
3-6 with no bowl
2-7 with no bowl
Except for a nice paycheck to build shiny new facilities from which to watch bowl week, I'm not seeing how it's improved Utah's football program one iota.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 12, 2014 10:38 a.m.
@mormon ute
Comprehension is your friend. I said other than pac12 membership utah has nothing "superior" to BYU to offer recruits, and that is a fact. Both facilities are nice enough, just because utah put their logo on their hot tub seats isn't going to sway a recruit. BYU's stadium has 20,000 more seats than utah's, and BYU usually has close to that many more people in it than utah has in theirs, that isn't even something you should try to use to make a "superior" argument.
As for the recruiting, well those are just the facts, BYU gets more highly ranked recruits than utah just about every single year. utah has never gotten a 5 star recruit, BYU has gotten several, utah almost never gets 4 star recruits either, BYU usually gets some every single year. What utah has done for a few of the last 4-5 years is get more mid level (3 star) recruits whereas BYU has taken some 2 star types. That is why utah's overall ranking in some, not all, of those years was higher. But so what? No recruit cares that utah got more 3 stars. Kind of a silly argument to try to make.
Riverton Cougar Riverton, UTJuly 12, 2014 8:48 a.m.
"Army won a bunch of titles back in the day, are they relevant? Even more recently CU won a title in 1991, are they relevant?"
Apparently they are more relevant than Utah, or else at least one of Utah's undefeated seasons would have lead to a national championship.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 12, 2014 5:11 a.m.
Sorry chum, BYU's past accomplishments carries them so much farther than the Rodney Dangerfield's of the PAC10.2.
So true, it's been 40+ years and still waiting for the call.
"In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10.
They used to come into the Utah game always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game."
-- Ron McBride
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 12, 2014 5:00 a.m.
ELEVEN of BYU's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.
Only FIVE of Utah's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.
That's because we mostly beat our opponents and you mostly lose to yours.
Here's an example from 2005:
Utah (6-5) 38
Georgia Tech 10 (AP #24 - Final AP unranked)
Cal 35 (AP unranked - Final AP #25)
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 12, 2014 4:49 a.m.
As far as bowl records go, BYU has played more ranked teams in bowl games than Utah has played bowl games. Once again, absolutely NOBODY cares about your mediocre wins over other mediocre teams. Certainly not the polls.
Sorry, no one cares about what you did in the WAC, lets look at the current era that just ended.
Let's look at BYU's BCS Resume:
* No undefeated seasons
* No BCS bowls
* No BCS Bowl wins
* No top 10 finishes (Utah 2, TCU 4)
* Losing record against P5 teams
* Losing record against top-mid majors (3-9 vs. Utah, 2-5 vs. TCU, and 1-3 vs. Boise)
Over all accomplishments:
* BYU had 4 MWC titles (Utah 4)
* BYU had 5 AP top 25 rankings (Utah 4)
* BYU had zero national title contenders (Utah had one in 2008, best mid-major team under BCS with 16 first place AP votes).
Bowl Games:
* 23% of BYU's bowl opponents were ranked in the AP top 25 (36% for Utah)
* 32% in the AP top 30 (55% for Utah)
* The difference, Utah went 10-1 (91%) and BYU 6-5 (55%)
DPTCougar Eagle Mountain, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:07 p.m.
What's everyone talking about a travel partner? You sound idiotic. Teams don't travel together. Do you really think it costs that much more for Texas to fly to Provo than it does to KU? No, they all charter their own flights. Geographic location and travel partners have little relevance.
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:41 p.m.
@ Riverton Cougar
Army won a bunch of titles back in the day, are they relevant? Even more recently CU won a title in 1991, are they relevant?
Riverton Cougar Riverton, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:28 p.m.
"Undefeated Seasons
Utah: 5
So, Utah has 5 attempts at a national championship but fails. BYU has one single undefeated season, but it leads to a national championship.
That is proof that BYU is more relevant nationally than Utah is.
Eddie Syracuse, UTJuly 11, 2014 8:29 p.m.
U fans must be afraid of something or otherwise they would have moved on. They claim they are so much more superior, but keep coming back to anything BYU. It is like someone driving and keeps looking in the rear view mirror and crashes.....well that is what has happened. They crashed and landed at the bottom of the pac12. The Utes are going no where real fast. At least BYU is in the news and people are talking. No one and I repeat, no one is talking about the u. There is just nothing to talk about. Nothing to see here folks, move on. Oh and take your banners and stickers with you.
CO Ute PARKER, COJuly 11, 2014 7:23 p.m.
You know what really bothers me? Y fans that claim to speak for Utah (and vice versa).
I would love to have BYU join a real conference and have absolutely no concern about recruiting. What many of you don't understand is there is a large population of non-Mormons that would NEVER consider going to BYU. Many people have an issue with the LDS religion and may recruits have no interest in following your honor code. You can reply that you don't want that type of kid, and that's fine, but conference affiliation or not there will be plenty of recruits for Utah.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 7:19 p.m.
Springville, UT
"Sorry chum, BYU's past accomplishments carries them so much farther than the Rodney Dangerfield's of the PAC10.2.
BYU has a list of accomplishments and with that it does get a narrative along with the media attention and the respect Ute fans so wished they had."
Again, the only people who care about what you call "accomplishments" are byu fans. Clearly, those who count are not impressed. How's independence? Not good? Head football coach doesn't like it, basketball coach doesn't like it, fans don't like it, Athletic Director can't deliver. Too bad.
Rise and shout!
now and again Stafford, VAJuly 11, 2014 6:52 p.m.
@ Two For Flinching:
Interesting comment, in view of the fact that the Utah was 2-7 against P5 competition last year.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 11, 2014 6:35 p.m.
Salmon, ID
If joining the Big-12 means being a doormat like Utah in the Pac-12 - forget it. I'd rather stay independent.
So... basically you're saying "I'd rather APPEAR to be a contender than REALLY be a contender."
Whatever floats your boat. But that's Poser 101.
I'm glad Utah has manned up and is trying to be a real force -- ya know, one that isn't always immediately followed by "yeah, but they play a weak schedule as a mid major." Even though so far we are losing that fight.
Enjoy that.
Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UTJuly 11, 2014 6:34 p.m.
"If the Cougars are going to join the Power 5, the conference that makes most sense is the Big 12, Matich said. All time, BYU owns a 17-21 record against current Big 12 teams."
I love it how the authors at DNews always love to make it sound like BYU is just sitting back at a big table with all the P5 offers laid in front of them, just thinking, "I just can't decide which one to choose."
sammyg Springville, UTJuly 11, 2014 6:15 p.m.
And nothing changes the narrative that the Utes and their fans are the Rodney Dangerfield's of their conference.
Whining all day long... we get no respect. Deflecting from reality on a daily basis.
B-b-b-but we're in a P5 conference. And what has that got you...
4-5,3-6,2-5, and bowl-less for the last two years kind of says it all.
Sorry chum, BYU's past accomplishments carries them so much farther than the Rodney Dangerfield's of the PAC10.2.
BYU has a list of accomplishments and with that it does get a narrative along with the media attention and the respect Ute fans so wished they had.
What a bunch of bitter and jealous whiners.
It's pretty pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UTJuly 11, 2014 5:15 p.m.
"absolutely NOBODY cares"
Ordinarily, people who use words like "Forever" and "Lifetime" should care.
Your response is ypical, though. Nothing like changing the parameters to fit the cougar narrative.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 4:32 p.m.
Baltimore, MD
"Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but absolutely NOBODY cares about your 7- and 8-win "undefeated" seasons. They were so meaningless, that U didn't even get a sniff at a Top 25 ranking or bowl game."
And so you come back with numbers that prove beyond a shadow of doubt how relevant byu is. Seriously? And to think that byu is still independent. Gasp! That's how much EVERYBODY cares about byu.
Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UTJuly 11, 2014 4:31 p.m.
As a UT alum I would much rather see the Big XII lure Arizona and Arizona State from the PAC 12. Those schools would be a better fit for the Big XII than the Y.
Rockwell Baltimore, MDJuly 11, 2014 1:58 p.m.
Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but absolutely NOBODY cares about your 7- and 8-win "undefeated" seasons. They were so meaningless, that U didn't even get a sniff at a Top 25 ranking or bowl game.
As far as bowl records go, BYU has played more ranked teams in bowl games than Utah has played bowl games. Once again, absolutely NOBODY cares about your mediocre wins over other mediocre teams. Certainly not the polls.
ELEVEN of BYU's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.
Only FIVE of Utah's 13 bowl-winning teams finished the season ranked in the AP.
FIVE of BYU's bowl-losing teams finished the season ranked in the AP.
NONE of Utah's bowl-losing teams have been ranked.
Conference titles
Utah: 24, and counting
BYU: 23, and not counting
Sorry, but Utah only managed to win 6 WAC/MWC championships. Your previous conference titles were so meaningless that nobody outside the Rocky Mountain area even noticed - certainly not the bowls nor the polls.
The Utes built a huge early lead with a 30-year head start.
Since 1962, BYU has owned the series 29-23.
Since 1972, BYU has owned the series 32-15.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 11, 2014 1:41 p.m.
Just stating the facts in response to Duckhunter. You can say all you want about what recruits want, but the recruiting class rankings are what they are. Obviously Utah's win/loss record is hurting recruiting in recent years as evidenced by the narrowing of the gap between Utah and BYU in 2014. That doesn't change the fact that the numbers don't support Duckhunter's claim or yours.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 1:28 p.m.
byu fans are a crack up. It isn't Utah's head coach the athletic director, its fans, or anyone else at the university who are groveling at the feet of power conferences begging for inclusion.
Holmoe has sold you people ponies and rainbows as you have dutifully marched down the independence path to no where.
The entertainment value you people provide is off the charts. Lol!!
81Ute Central, UTJuly 11, 2014 1:01 p.m.
BYU vs. Utah
31 wins
54 losses
4 ties
37% win average.
BYU will not overtake Utah in my lifetime.
JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UTJuly 11, 2014 12:44 p.m.
"Not only has BYU been better lifetime . . ." (
"Utah has been dominated by BYU on a national scale, FOREVER"
Ylittlebrother and skywalker:
There you go again, not letting facts get in the way of your certitude.
In fact, since 1922, when BYU decided they would officially play football, here are the measurements of who is "better and who has dominated:
Overall records
Utah: 628-435-31 (57.4% winning percentage)
BYU: 518-383-26 (55.9% winning percentage)
Bowl records:
Utah: 13-4 (76.4%)
Undefeated Seasons
Utah: 5
Conference titles
Utah: 24, and counting
BYU: 23, and not counting
Head-to-head: Utah leads 57-34-4
Man, you guys sure like to live in the "LaVell Bubble"!
skywalker Palo Alto, CAJuly 11, 2014 12:37 p.m.
Mormon Ute
If Utah is such a competitive, why is Utah routinely ignored, even by their own conference, when it comes to which games national broadcasters choose to televise?
btw, those shiny new facilities lose considerable luster when the Utes spend bowl week on the couch instead of on the playing field.
Recruits couldn't care less how difficult your SOS is if you're not competitive enough to qualify for a bowl.
ekute Layton, UTJuly 11, 2014 12:23 p.m.
"on a national scale" is what we've been talking about for 3 1/2 years. Big 12 call yet?
mussingaround Palo Alto, CAJuly 11, 2014 12:12 p.m.
We were invited to be nothing more than cannon fodder for the big boys of a P5 and aren't even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore, but we won a few battles against a rival that we supposedly don't even care about anymore! LOL!
Hey Baby
BYU will join the Big 12 looooong before the Utes make the playoffs.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 11, 2014 12:02 p.m.
I just need to correct some factual inaccuracies in your post. First, Utah has plenty to offer recruits other than Pac 12 membership. First and foremost the new football training facility is widely reported by the media and former athletes who have seen both Utah's and BYU's as being superior. Then you have our stadium which has been more recently updated and is ranked near the top of the Pac 12 in terms of advantage it provides our team. We also happen to sell out a higher percentage of our games than BYU does which contributes to that home field advantage.
Now, as far as recruiting classes go, you were right about one thing, it isn't even close. But you got it the wrong way. Yahoo Sport has Utah ranked ahead of BYU in recruiting classes for 2011 - 2014. Here are the numbers, 2011: Utah 37 BYU 63; 2012: Utah 28 BYU 62; 2013: Utah 44 BYU 71; 2014: Utah 67 BYU 71. So tell me, if BYU consistently gets more top rated recruits than Utah, how can Utah's recruiting classes be ranked so much higher?
skywalker Palo Alto, CAJuly 11, 2014 11:48 a.m.
"BYU dominated Utah in football for two decades, but that ended over twenty years ago."
The only reason Utah fans only want to talk about head-to-head success is because Utah has been dominated by BYU on a national scale, FOREVER.
In fact, BYU's domination has been so complete on a national scale that Utah fans don't even try to dispute it.
ekute Layton, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:44 a.m.
We lost the battles, were rejected everywhere we turned... but... "We won the war!" lol.
Hey Baby Franklin, INJuly 11, 2014 11:41 a.m.
Kind of like the bird pontificating if it should become a reptile ?
It may want to but can't...the big 12 wants nothing to do with TSDS...
BYU will drop sports before they play in a conference that matters.
Marked it Down Park City, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:40 a.m.
BYU has won the overall, season-long accomplishment war.
Can you dispute that 17 AP Top 25 Finishes isn't much better than 5?
Can you dispute that 23 conference championship isn't much better than 6?
Can you dispute that a 66% winning percentage during the last 52 years isn't much better than 55%?
Can you dispute that 11 11+ win seasons isn't much better than 2?
Can you dispute that 32 bowl games isn't much better than 17?
It's laughable that Utah fans only want to talk about "recent" success, when the truth is, you have absolutely NO historic success.
Utah didn't even crack the AP Top 25 until 1994 and never had an 11+ win season until 2004.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:37 a.m.
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
"A huge piece of you would die. You couldn't hold the conference affiliation/sticker contest winner over our heads any longer, for one. Also, BYU would fare better than you in a P5 for a couple of reasons. Our recruiting base will expand exponentially and at a faster rate due to our name recognition (past individual/team awards) and because the LDS athletes who would opt for P5 schools can now go to their church's school. We have a fairly large booster organization and extra sports revenue that can support expansion a little better than the U, as well."
LOL! First, byu has to be invited to the Big 12. Contrary to what you most byu fans seem to believe byu can't invite themselves. Remember, byu and its fans spent 30 years talking about their immanent inclusion in the Pac-10. How did that work out for you? Then, we'll see if the rest of your assertions have any merit whatsoever. It's easy to talk big (byu fans are experts) when there is nothing to prove.
Until then, just know that Utah has already accomplished what you are waiting and begging for.
Whoa Nellie American Fork, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:32 a.m.
Isn't there a good team in North Dakota that would be a good traveling partner for BYU?
Utah'95 FPO, AEJuly 11, 2014 11:23 a.m.
"Recent battles?" I posted the win-loss totals of the Utah-BYU game over the last 20 years. Do you really consider 1994 recent?
BYU dominated Utah in football for two decades, but that ended over twenty years ago.
What "war" has BYU won?
TroyTown Anaheim, CAJuly 11, 2014 11:16 a.m.
"I doubt that anybody in Alabama would deny the Tide was owned by the Utes on Jan. 2, 2009."
I guarantee that NOBODY outside of Uteville would consider Utah to even be in the same stratosphere as Alabama.
Utah's win over Alabama was the equivalent of Appalachian State's win over Michigan.
Nothing more than a fluke upset.
Utah's program has been in steady decline since that upset win.
DeepBlue Anaheim, CAJuly 11, 2014 11:06 a.m.
At the end of the day, despite Utah's recent head-to-head success, BYU has been better overall.
Bottom line:
Utah has won more recent battles, but BYU has won the war.
BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CAJuly 11, 2014 11:03 a.m.
I keep reading comments from self-reported non-BYU haters like Mormon Ute saying that they'd love love love for BYU to get an invite from the BIG 12. It would make the state of Utah so much richer in college football prestige AND BYU would see how tough it would be to play week to week talented teams.
Don't fool yourselves. A huge piece of you would die. You couldn't hold the conference affiliation/sticker contest winner over our heads any longer, for one. Also, BYU would fare better than you in a P5 for a couple of reasons. Our recruiting base will expand exponentially and at a faster rate due to our name recognition (past individual/team awards) and because the LDS athletes who would opt for P5 schools can now go to their church's school. We have a fairly large booster organization and extra sports revenue that can support expansion a little better than the U, as well.
Sad times are a-coming for the Ute fans.
Go Cougs.
Kora Cedar Hills, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:02 a.m.
Personally I can see BYU moving to the Big 12 with Boise State. They are both solid teams with good Resumes. I mean both teams are much better than Kansas or Iowa State with better followings than either of those teams, and add more Financially.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 11:00 a.m.
Anaheim, CA
"BYU's 17-21 versus current Big 12 members as well as Bronco's 9-9 record versus the PAC 12 are better than Kyle's 13-21 record versus the PAC 12."
If the point you are making is that it takes more to be in the Pac-12 than beating the least competitive teams over a 10 year period, you are right. Which is exactly the reason byu is not in the Pac-12. As I have stated repeatedly...the Pac-12 is well out of byu's reach.
Isn't independence wonderful? Mendenhall doesn't want it, the fans don't want it, but Holmoe just can't deliver. Too bad.
Rise and shout!
Johnny Triumph American Fork, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:36 a.m.
The Big12 had Colorado as a member, BYU isn't that far from Boulder and would make little difference with ease of travel like we have today. BYU has shown it's willing to travel, travel is NOT the issue of Big12 expansion...
Utah'95 FPO, AEJuly 11, 2014 10:34 a.m.
If you want to play the "with just a play or two" game, Coach Whittingham could just as easliy be 9-0 against Bronco as Coach Mendenhall being 7-2 against Utah.
Yes, most of the Utah-BYU games have been extremely competitive. But at the end of the day, what matters is who won.
Utah has won 4 of the last 5, 7 of the last 10, 10 of the last 15, and 13 of the last 20.
DeepBlue Anaheim, CAJuly 11, 2014 10:32 a.m.
BYU's 17-21 versus current Big 12 members as well as Bronco's 9-9 record versus the PAC 12 are better than Kyle's 13-21 record versus the PAC 12.
Of course, it's difficult to see that when you're wearing those crimson shades.
Utehaterforlife West Valley, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:29 a.m.
Silly Ute fans, your just as competitive as BYU is with the P5, how about you stop the trash talking until you make it to a bowl game in conference.
coyote120 Saratoga Springs, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:19 a.m.
coyote120 "BIG 12 is in a tough position using the "One Champion" format. If it fails then they will want to expand. If it succeeds then the other conferences will be complaining"
SoonerUte"When (not if) that happens, that league will consider dropping their CCG rather than complaining about the Big12 not having one."
Your point is a good one and things may workout that way; but, 12 team conferences can't use the Round Robin format, the CCG is a natural fit into the new playoff system; there is a lot of revenue to be had from the CCG and if everyone has a CCG then system becomes equal. The BIG12 will have to expand at some point.
CKS007 Clearfield, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:15 a.m.
Wow, yet another article about BYU and the Big12. If it happens, it happens. However it won't happen tomorrow or even next month. So why post another duplicate article about something that won't happen for years (if it happens at all)?
Cougsndawgs West Point , UTJuly 11, 2014 10:13 a.m.
This is just amazing to me. How do Utah fans like MyPerspective take everything I say and completely twist it around to make BYU look bad? Look MP, it's not me saying BYU needs a partner it's fans of the Big 12 on blogs and writers on espn & CBS sports. I know you would like to pretend that BYU is the lowest of low and adds no value but it's time to wake up from nappy time and see reality. BYU does add value, and most ADs recognize that...there's no one else that does. This is a legitimate concern for BYU fans. I listed several other problems BYU realistically faces which you chose to conveniently ignore. Btw, I feel the same about you...most of the time I respect your opinion then there are times you just act like a hater with blinders on.
ekute Layton, UTJuly 11, 2014 10:09 a.m.
Yep. "OWNED"!
I doubt that anybody in Alabama would deny the Tide was owned by the Utes on Jan. 2, 2009.
That style of rationalization only happens in happy valley.
DeepBlue Anaheim, CAJuly 11, 2014 10:07 a.m.
The playoff era starts in 2014.
You're only fooling yourself if you think that BYU's head-to-head record with Utah will be even a tiny factor when the playoff committee starts evaluating BYU's playoff resume.
The fact that you think that BYU's head-to-head record with Utah will be a factor speaks more to your little brother status, than it does to BYU's playoff potential.
skywalker Palo Alto, CAJuly 11, 2014 9:56 a.m.
Only in the mind of a delusional, crimson glasses wearer.
The truth is the Utes have simply gotten lucky in winning some recent very close games.
With just a play or two in 2005, 2010, 2012, and 2013, Bronco could very easily be 7-2 versus Kyle.
Overall, the Bronco/Kyle era record speaks for itself,
BYU has more AP Top 25 finishes, more conference championships, more 11+ win seasons, more bowl games, and a better overall record.
Duckhunter Highland, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:44 a.m.
@mormon ute
Whiney utah "fans" complain about my posts and get them removed on occasion, there was no reason for it to be removed, I don't think the mods even check them, if a complaint is lodged they just do it.
As for my assertion, well I am correct, utah "fans" do fear it, it terrifies them. You can say it doesn't worry you, fine, whatever, but the majority of utah "fans" are terrified by that possibility.
It is simple, the one and only thing utah has to offer that could be considered superior to what BYU offers is their pac12 memebership, there is nothing else. If that one and only advantage is gone what can utah possibly offer recruits, especially local and LDS recruits, to keep them away from BYU? BYU already gets more top rated recruits than utah does, and it really isn't very close, if it returns to the days of BYU getting almost all of the best local recruits that would damage what little chance utah has to be even vaguely competitive.
Yes utah "fans" fear it, as does chris hill, kyle whittingham, larry krystkowiak, etc..
ekute Layton, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:37 a.m.
Well then, it seems that independence or membership in a mid-major conference are the only viable options for byu since the are recently owned by a "perennial bottom dweller".
Utah'95 FPO, AEJuly 11, 2014 9:36 a.m.
I will probably disappoint fans of both the Cougars and Utes, but here is some objective information, and some of my opinions on what it means:
Since joining the Pac 12, Utah has gone 11-18 against Big 5 teams. The Utes have gone 1-6 against Big 5 opponents who finished the season ranked.
Since joining the Big 12, TCU has gone 7-14 against Big 5 teams. The Horned Frogs have gone 1-6 against Big 5 opponents who finished the season ranked.
Since going independent, BYU has gone 6-11 against Big 5 teams (including Notre Dame and TCU who is now a Big 12 member). The Cougars have gone 0-5 against Big 5 opponents who finished the season ranked.
BYU has gone 0-4 against Utah (0-3) and TCU (0-1) since going independent.
My conclusions:
Utah and TCU have proven that competing in a Big 5 conference is much more difficult than playing in the MWC.
There is no evidence to support that BYU would compete more successfully in a Big 5 conference than those two teams have.
Utah has a long ways to go before they can be considered a consistent contender in the Pac 12.
Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:33 a.m.
e kute
"Today, 1 P5 membership > none, trumps everything you just posted."
Only in your crimson-colored dreams does simply being a member of any conference trump a national championship, a Heisman Trophy, or any of BYU's other accomplishments on a national scale.
BlueCoug Orem, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:24 a.m.
Mormon Ute
Thank you for your honest assessment.
Given the changing landscape of college football, Independence isn't ideal, but it's still far superior for BYU football than remaining in the MWC would have been.
It's impossible to predict how things will play out, but I still think BYU is better positioned to remain relevant in the playoff era as an Independent, than as a member of a non-P5. Of course, being in a P5 would certainly make life easier from a scheduling perspective.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:15 a.m.
I may be in the minority as a Ute fan in this opinion, but I think independence was a good move by BYU. Like Utah and every other school in the MWC our exposure was being stifled by the garbage TV deal Craig Thompson agreed to. So was TV revenue. Utah took the opportunity offered to get out and BYU needed to get out too. By going independent BYU has gained more exposure and increased their TV revenue. They seem to now acknowledge it was only an intermediate step and that makes sense. They may have burned some bridges in the MWC, but who cares about the MWC anymore. That conference is now behind both Utah and BYU and we should be looking toward the future, without the MWC.
DeepBlue Anaheim, CAJuly 11, 2014 9:15 a.m.
Being a perennial bottom dweller in a P5 doesn't make you any better than Indiana, Washington St, Vanderbilt, and many other P5 bottom dwellers who are nothing more than convenient punching bags for the big boys of their conferences.
Uteanymous Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 11, 2014 9:10 a.m.
Y's little brother
Not only better overall during the last 52 years, but better recently, during the Bronco/Kyle era:
TWICE as many AP Top finishes
Bronco 4, Kyle 2
THREE times as many 11+ win seasons
Bronco 3, Kyle 1
TWICE as many conference championships
Bronco 2, Kyle 1
More Bowls
Bronco 9, Kyle 7
Better overall record
Bronco 82-34 (71%), Kyle 75-39 (66%)
Higher Sagarin rating
Bronco 5, Kyle 4
ekute Layton, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:10 a.m.
Y's little brother,
Today, 1 P5 membership > none, trumps everything you just posted.
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:04 a.m.
Y Grad/Y Dad, until BYU goes public with their numbers or someone manages to gain access and leak them, you are just speculating. But since you opened the door, let's throw a little more speculation into that. I'd wager that BYU's facilities are heavily subsidized by the Church, since most of their athletic facilities serve dual purposes. Take the Marriott Center for example. More Church meetings are held there in a year's time than basketball games . The Church probably pays the bulk of the maintenance on that building. Other facilities are also used by the general student body who pay student fees for that privilege. Many people consider student fees to be a subsidy and at the U they run about $9 million a year, so that puts a dent in your $10 million surplus. Also, athletes scholarships at BYU are also subsidized by the Church, since the tuition amount they use is the member rate.
wwookie Payson, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:02 a.m.
"Independence is a great place to launch from."
By being independent, we are losing the image of not being a very good member of whatever conference we belong to. This allows us to negotiate with the big conferences without the fear they will call up other members of our current conference. For references (The big conferences never accepted our line that the other conference members were just jealous of our unparalleled success anyways)
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 11, 2014 9:00 a.m.
I guess Duckhunter's comment got removed before I had a chance to read it, but from what others have said in response to him I gather he believes we all live in fear of BYU getting into the Big 12. Many others have responded to refute that and I want to add my name to that list. I would love to see BYU in the Big 12. Not only for the better opportunities that would provide them, but also so their fans can be put in the same situation Utah and TCU have experienced. It won't be any easier for BYU than anyone else to make that jump.
Y's little brother Sandy, UTJuly 11, 2014 8:46 a.m.
To our jealous little brothers:
The numbers don't lie
1 National Championship > none
1 Heisman Trophy > none
15 National Individual Awards > none
6 National Hall of Fame Players > none
17 AP Top 25 Finishes > 5
32 Bowls > 17
11 11+ Win Seasons > 2
16 10+ Win Seasons > 6
410-214-4 (66%) > 323-269-4 (55%)
29 head-to-head wins > 23
Not only has BYU been better lifetime and overall during the last 52 years (WAC/MWC/Ind/PAC era), it's an indisputable FACT that BYU has been SIGNIFICANTLY better than our little brothers.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 11, 2014 8:25 a.m.
Jeff ls
Farr West, 84404
"Of the potential adds to the Big 12, BYU is the only school that does generate the positive financial flow to the conference to be considered for addition. UCF, Cincinatti and a couple of other institutions don't quite add the financial value to make a 12 way split of revenues. That is what the main problem is. Finding a partner school for BYU to include in the Big 12 is the major hurdle."
Yeah, that's it, Jeff. Realignment has come and gone 3 or 4 times and byu and their fans are still on the outside saying..."if only there was another team as worthy as us..."
Huge LOL!, Jeff. Just huge.
2BCSWINS West of I15, UTJuly 11, 2014 8:15 a.m.
@BIG AL...."BYU proves year after year that it can compete well against the Power 5 institutions (only one of the reasons the most recent snub by the SEC is ridiculous). Keep the Independent status, and keep being a fly in their proverbial ointment!"
LOL, thank you for that laugh this morning I really needed it.
Jeff ls Farr West, 84404July 11, 2014 7:59 a.m.
Of the potential adds to the Big 12, BYU is the only school that does generate the positive financial flow to the conference to be considered for addition. UCF, Cincinatti and a couple of other institutions don't quite add the financial value to make a 12 way split of revenues. That is what the main problem is. Finding a partner school for BYU to include in the Big 12 is the major hurdle.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 11, 2014 3:51 a.m.
If the BIG 12 expands they will head East not West. The order of precedence:
1. UConn (TV market rank: #30)
2. Cincinnati (#34)
Source: Brett McMurphy (ESPN)
AltaHawkFan Sandy, UTJuly 11, 2014 3:41 a.m.
ute fans .. before you start feeling all high and mighty, you should realize that utah only has 9 wins against 14 losses against current Big 12 teams. Also, the utes only went 2-7 against P5 teams last year. Reality comes crashing down sometimes doesn't it ?
never break .500 Los Angeles, CAJuly 11, 2014 1:08 a.m.
the problem with the Ute fan argument that "no one wants BYU" is it is proved silly by the ESPN contract given the Cougars. No credible sports fan can say that ESPN was too naive to figure out if BYU brings eyeballs and is a national brand….you trolls are just being silly. Now if you want the truth, the vast majority of college football fans are uncertain of the difference between Utah and Utah State…not sure of their shifting mascot and more importantly, don't care if their games are broadcast unless played against USC or Oregon…Go Utah University Aggies or whatever.
gdog3finally West Jordan, UtahJuly 11, 2014 12:30 a.m.
I have been listening to Trevor Matich for years. He is consistently biased towards BYU. He may say what fans want to hear but his inductive reasoning is flawed.
gdog3finally West Jordan, UtahJuly 11, 2014 12:05 a.m.
Obviously the BIG 12 is the first choice but independence is the best option for the present despite its' follies.
A good number of BYU fans still think independence is the answer, but most see it as an eventual disaster if college football continues to morph itself more and more into an elitist capitalist entity. This is ironic considering most cougar fans are in favor of everything capitalistic.
Right now though, BYU gets to play a few profile games with 'exposure' which leaves them ripe for 10 win seasons. The majority of their schedule is against extremely weak cream puffs though. The bowl game thing is a lock, but it is not the game that really excites anyone. On the other hand, the hyped bowl games are probably just as likely for BYU as for Utah, if not more so. Basically, if BYU is a good football team, they have a chance to run the table with the current schedule. Utah doesn't have a prayer to do that. But if the stars align for the Utes, they could win the conference if parity produces a number of losses for each PAC 12 team. Dreaming of roses.
Real Bass Idaho Falls, IDJuly 10, 2014 11:53 p.m.
Glad to see little brother utes moved on!
Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WAJuly 10, 2014 10:53 p.m.
I've heard speculation that BYU's athletic department runs about a $10 mil surplus. Maybe if you think traditionally, there is no financial incentive for the Big 12 to go to 12 members. I gotta think with what BYU DOES bring to the table, plus $10 mil to play with, there oughta be a creative way to make BYU financially appealing.
Time to think outside the box. If ESPN money was extra to what the Big 12 already has, there should be a way to keep (increase) our exposure, increase the ESPN revenue and buy our way into a scheduling arrangement, as a full member, football-only member or invited guest.
If they didn't have to share their pie with BYU, maybe a win-win can be structured.
CougFaninTX Frisco, TXJuly 10, 2014 9:41 p.m.
If BIG XII is forced to have 12 to have a CCG, UCF and BYU have the be the logical choices. It's all about money and recruiting, and none of the other schools have as much to offer as these two.
If BIG XII gets a bye, and is allowed to operate with 10 teams, I expect a couple of the other conferences to shed some dead wood to get back to 10 increase revenue share with the bigger name schools in the conference.
If P5 separate themselves from the other conferences, I expect big realignment in the non P5 conferences. Look for a new conference that plucks the best schools from the non P5 to make a new conference that will be able to compete at the P5 level. Imagine a conference with BYU, Boise, SDSU, Houston, Cincy, UCF, Conn, SMU, Air Force, USU, CSU, S Florida.
truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UTJuly 10, 2014 9:14 p.m.
"BYU joining the Big 12 would send shock waves through Utedom creating a panic attack. Utah fans know that BYU would be far more successful in the Big 12, than our little brothers have been in the PAC 12"
BYU fans, always superior to Utah in hypothetical situations, but never on the field.
I would love to see BYU catch up to Utah and join a major conference. Having two P5 teams that close to home, in different conferences would make things even more interesting, and it would be great for the state.
In the mean time though, the entitled whining / desperation from some of the fans and coaches continues to be entertaining.
skywalker Palo Alto, CAJuly 10, 2014 8:03 p.m.
"You utah "fans" dread the possibilities of this ever happening, it terrifies you, and that is what makes it fun."
News of BYU joining the Big 12 would send shock waves through Utedom creating a panic attack.
Utah fans know that BYU would be far more successful in the Big 12, than our little brothers have been in the PAC 12.
Adirondack Cougar Loon Lake, NYJuly 10, 2014 7:47 p.m.
The Y will be fine. Conference alignment isn't finished, and the playoffs are just getting started. P5 doesn't go into a 4 team playoff. Something will give. I can't see a change to only 4 power conferences. I wonder about 6 power conferences, as any conference with more than 12 teams becomes unwieldy. I do see the playoff quickly becoming 8 teams, that way you have each of the p5 with a rep and 3 at large teams. Right now I am glad BYU has remained indy for two reasons. First, we aren't ready for a p5 schedule, but through independence we can slowly build to that level through scheduling and better recruiting through our national TV exposure. Second, we wouldn't want to end up like BSU having to back out of something and then pay a lot of money for nothing. If we start winning against the P5 schools we will either get an invite to a power conference or be one of those 8 teams when the playoffs are expanded. We can learn to swim in the shallow end first. Our neighbor to the north chose the deep end first and it isn't pretty to watch.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 10, 2014 7:34 p.m.
@Riverton Cougar
"That can't be right can it? We've been told over and over that BYU would be competitive in a P5 league. Didn't Phil Steel rank BYU in the middle of the pack of P5 leagues this year?"
Well, that's certainly better than what Utah has done, so I wouldn't talk. Besides, being in the middle is pretty close to being competitive; is the #5 team in the Big 12 considered to be competitive?
My bad, please remind me again what year did BYU finish #5 in the Big 12?
* BYU played 7 P5 games in one season for the first time in 2013. The results? BYU finished 2-5.
* Utah played 11 P5 games in one season for the first time in 2011. The results? Utah finished 6-5.
Henry Drummond San Jose, CAJuly 10, 2014 7:28 p.m.
I'm not sure how this works geographically. Are the proposing football only? Is the Big 12 willing to do that? It would be hard on the non-revenue sports.
Does this really work financially? Does BYU really bring enough extra views to make the pie big enough that each slice of the current ten members won't be less? Are their any hard numbers on this?
It would be interesting for the sports writers at the Deseret News to put together an article called "The Case for BYU in the BIG 12" with real numbers on these and other issues. I think television rights, and "no Sunday Play" would have to be accounted for. Other than the last issue, it would seem everything else is negotiable. It seems like everyone is simply sniping and talking in broad generalities.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 10, 2014 7:24 p.m.
Personally I think BYU fits in the Big 12. Wouldn't mind seeming them end up their. That being said, is the Big 12 willing to add another Texas size ego to their mix? No idea, we will have to wait a while if Fox Sports is right:
"Despite persistent rumors and rumblings since the Big 12 settled on 10 members, expansion is assuredly not on the agenda ... BYU, spurned by the ACC and SEC's recent scheduling announcements, won't be sneaking in a back door at the Four Seasons Resort and Club in Irving, Texas to make its case for membership now or at any foreseeable point in the future."
-- Fox Sports Southwest
Riverton Cougar Riverton, UTJuly 10, 2014 7:10 p.m.
Thanks for proving my points: Ute fans feel superior because of conference affiliation and are obsessed enough with BYU to comment on their articles (and they have increased significantly in number, I can tell; is the state of UofU football really in that bad of shape?).
It looks like Duckhunter is right about the Ute fans' worst nightmare being BYU getting a P5 conference invite.
Naval Vet Philadelphia, PAJuly 10, 2014 6:21 p.m.
Alpine Coug:
"Ekute: Spin it anyway you want, the MWC would kill to have BYU back as their cornerstone program. BYU will never ever willingly choose to return to the MWC."
Spin it anyway you want, but the MWC would never invite the cougars back to join their conference. You'd burned too many bridges to return to the MWC. If you want to make a case for Y rejecting the MWC rather than the MWC having absolutely NO interest in the Y, then do so after they invite you back. If they don't invite you back...well that speaks volumes!
Carson Provo, UTJuly 10, 2014 6:17 p.m.
What will tomorrows BYU story be? I believe that there is more angst in cougar land than most realize, they to can see where it's all heading. Pipe dreams won't help what's coming!
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 6:12 p.m.
@ Duckhunter
"You utah "fans" dread the possibilities of this ever happening, it terrifies you, and that is what makes it fun."
Don't count me in that group. I would love to see BYU in the BIG-12 because the state of Utah would become one of the greatest places for college football in the nation. Having the elite Big-12 and PAC-12 programs visiting stadiums 45 minutes from each other on a regulate basis would be awesome.
MapleDon Springville, UTJuly 10, 2014 6:06 p.m.
Can we give this Big 12 non-story a rest?
The Big 12 is not interested in BYU because the Cougars don't bring enough to the table for it to be worth discussion by the conference.
Enough already.
Next story...
Alaskan Ute Fairbanks, AKJuly 10, 2014 5:51 p.m.
Culturally, having lived in TX, I think BYU would fit in with the Big-12, realizing that the Big-12 includes schools outside TX. It's a very conservative atmosphere. Having attended Big-12 games, it's a great atmosphere with knowledgeable fans.
As other have stated, BYU should have tried harder years ago to get into the Big-12. As a Ute fan, I don't expect to go to the Rose Bowl on an annual basis, but love to see the Utes compete against PAC 12 competition on a regular basis (please don't show your idiocy by starting the anti PAC 12 rants).
While I'm a Ute, my daughter currently attends BYU and 4 of my siblings graduated from BYU - I'm not a BYU hater. Joining the BIG-12 would certainly make me more interested in watching their games on a more regular basis as the Big-12 is a great conference.
Go Utes!
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:42 p.m.
Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT
If you believe Utah is a superior school to BYU simply because of PAC-12 membership, then it is you who are delusional. You commented on another article how BYU fans can't "get past" Utah because they keep on commenting. Well, an honest search and evaluation will show that far more Utah fans comment on BYU articles with more regularity than BYU fans on Utah articles.
LOL, the Pac-12 performed the evaluation and made the call...byu was found wanting for well documented reasons. Put down the comic books.
Regarding comments on byu articles...there is nothing going at Utah right now. No potential NCAA violations. No angst about deserving more than we have (who could ask for a better situation than Utah is in?)asking for entitlements. No body in Utah's athletic department is groveling for respect. Nope. None of that going on at Utah. It's boring.
Thank goodness for byu articles.
Rise and shout!
Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:35 p.m.
Should the y go Big 12 or stay independent? Will the u ever be relevant in the PAC 12? blah blah blah . . . New off-season same old stories.
That is the problem with the excessive emphasis on being eligible to theoretically play for the NC. It has ruined many of the great things about college football such as healthy regional rivalries and the pride of winning your conference title.
SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:33 p.m.
coyote120 "BIG 12 is in a tough position using the "One Champion" format. If it fails then they will want to expand. If it succeeds then the other conferences will be complaining"
A CCG is optional. The SEC established the CCG as a way to make extra money. The Big 12 learned a hard lesson that an upset in the CCG can cost your league a shot at the National Title.
What you describe is possible, but a more likely scenario is the PAC/B1G/SEC/ACC losing a shot at the NC due do an upset in their own CCG. When (not if) that happens, that league will consider dropping their CCG rather than complaining about the Big12 not having one.
CO Ute PARKER, COJuly 10, 2014 5:25 p.m.
Should the Y try to join a P5 conference like the Big 12? Yes, most likely the best move.
Is the Big 12 going to invite them to join? Well, that isn't most likely going to happen soon.
Alpine Coug Alpine, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:24 p.m.
Ekute: Spin it anyway you want, the MWC would kill to have BYU back as their cornerstone program. BYU will never ever willingly choose to return to the MWC.
81Ute: Thanks for your sympathy for us poor long-suffering BYU fans. Not so sure why so much credence is given to what WVU's AD (Luck) has said. Is he the new spokesman for the Big XII or does he see BYU as a future competition? Pretty certain that he will have little, if any, say about BYU's future invitation to the Big XII.
Brave Sir Robin: While there is 0% chance of you ever landing a date with Sophia Vergara, there is at least a 60%-75% chance that BYU will end up in one of the P5 or eventual Super Conferences when the smoke settles. Gladly take those odds!
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 10, 2014 5:16 p.m.
Let me see if I understand you correctly. The ONLY reason that BYU is still in 40 years of discussions with the Big 12 is because lack of qualified programs to join with you? Priceless!!
Riverton Cougar Riverton, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:10 p.m.
If you believe Utah is a superior school to BYU simply because of PAC-12 membership, then it is you who are delusional. You commented on another article how BYU fans can't "get past" Utah because they keep on commenting. Well, an honest search and evaluation will show that far more Utah fans comment on BYU articles with more regularity than BYU fans on Utah articles. And considering that BYU's fanbase is significantly larger, that says a lot. I really don't see a need to go to Utah articles and mock Utah because I let the facts speak for themselves. A starting QB wouldn't mock the 2nd string QB unless the starting QB wasn't confident in his superiority.
"That can't be right can it? We've been told over and over that BYU would be competitive in a P5 league. Didn't Phil Steel rank BYU in the middle of the pack of P5 leagues this year?"
Well, that's certainly better than what Utah has done, so I wouldn't talk. Besides, being in the middle is pretty close to being competitive; is the #5 team in the Big 12 considered to be competitive?
SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 5:06 p.m.
I'd like to see this poll question:
"Should BYU join the Big 12 if it means finishing behind 2-7 TCU?"
Of course, avid Cougar fans will comb through their statistics back to 1972 and make a case for why -- on paper -- the team should do better. But reality is found on the field. On the field, TCU owned BYU in the MWC. On the field, BYU would fare no better than TCU, so replacing TCU as the league doormat should be expected.
Simple Yes or No. Would you want to see BYU "accepted" into the majors, if the cost of acceptance is finishing 2-7 in conference play year after year?
Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UTJuly 10, 2014 4:58 p.m.
There are 2 statements that contradict each other:
1) BYU won't get into the Big 12 even though they are a worthy team because of one problem. Who will join them? The Big 12 can't find a team to join BYU.
2) BYU won't get into the Big 12 because Houston/UCF/Cincinatti are better options and they would add those schools before BYU.
Well, which is it?
Some people say that the Big 12 can't find another option out west. Here's my question with that.
Who cares?
Adding BYU and UCF gets you into 2 completely new markets. It makes more money than BYU and Boise who are essentially the same market, or BYU and Houston, since Houston is already in the Big 12 market.
Obviously, with Iowa St. and West Virginia far away from another conference member, the Big 12 does not care about travel partners or geographic proximity, so saying we need another team out west is ridiculous.
Some people say, "Travel will be too much with BYU."
There are these sweet inventions called airplanes that make travel quick and the price isn't much different from Austin to Norman than it is than from Provo to Morgantown.
ArgoFY Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 10, 2014 4:52 p.m.
"That's the reality for BYU, no one else can join with them that brings enough to the table."
That's exactly the type of logic and hubris continually displayed by byu and its fans which will keep byu from joining the big kid's table. The Big XII explicitly stated that NO team(s) currently add enough value to warrant an invite to the conference.
coyote120 Saratoga Springs, UTJuly 10, 2014 4:39 p.m.
BIG 12 is in a tough position using the "One Champion" format. If it fails then they will want to expand. If it succeeds then the other conferences will be complaining that the Big 12 has an advantage with 10 teams and the BIG 12 will be forced to expand. Big 12 expansion is coming ,the real question is who will be available for the picking when they do.
Colo. Aggie Loveland, COJuly 10, 2014 4:30 p.m.
I think BYU blew it when they didn't do everything possible to join the Big 12 a few years ago. Unfortunately, the Big 12 has now added WVU. I just don't see the league now adding another school with no travelling partner that is in yet another own time zone. If the Big 12 expands, they are going to add another school from the east before anything else. I fully expect the Big 12 to look east going forward and not west. BYU should have had a great shot at the Big 12 when everything was in chaos. However, from all reports it seems like BYU thought they could name their own price rather than offering everything possible to get into the league. This was a big mistake. I'm afraid they are now locked out as the Big 12 looks east and not west. As far as the MWC goes, I think BYU burned too many bridges when they left. Therefore, the MWC is probably not an option either. Suddenly, the decision to go independent is not looking near so smart as it seemed a few years ago.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 4:04 p.m.
West Point , UT
"I would love to see BYU in the Big 12 but the reality is there isn't another attractive program to bring with them to get to a championship game and make expansion worthwhile. BYU may bring a large enough quality brand but who else does to join them? Answer: No One."
So, the underlying assertion here is that the only reason it isn't in a Power 5 conference is the fault of every other university that can't qualify. Is that what you are saying?
Honestly, cougsndawgs, there are times when your comments are insightful and absolutely ring true. Then there are times when you are just flat out off your meds. It's incredibly hard to understand how you people see byu as everything that everyone wants to have and to be a part of when the message communicated over and over again is rejection. How do you people live in a such a perpetual state of denial?
btw...like it or not, cougsndawgs, Utah meets the criteria of the Pac-12 which is well out of reach for byu.
SportsChemistry ENGLEWOOD, COJuly 10, 2014 4:02 p.m.
Until the Cougs win the WCC in men's basketball or baseball, winning the Commisioners Cup is akin to getting the best overall GPA but only "B"s in the hardest classes. The Big XII had two of the four teams in the CWS this year and seven teams go to the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament. I'm not prognosticating that things won't change in the future, but we aren't currently in a position to tell the Big XII that we are all that and a bag of chips when we can't seem to have a monster season in football or a dominant showing in basketball.
Cats Somewhere in Time, UTJuly 10, 2014 4:01 p.m.
The problem I have is that none of these teams are our traditional regional rivals. We've had pretty much the same group of teams for a lot of years and they are in our region. Sometimes I think that TV and money have ruined college football. I liked it a lot better when we were all in the MWC. Sure, I didn't like the TV mess that was created by "The Mountain." But, it was our traditional conference with our traditional rivals.
I realize the a lot of what propels BYU football is the exposure for the Church and the current national TV deal is great for that. I just have nostalgia for the days when we had our traditional group of western teams and everything didn't have to hang on getting a national championship.
Naval Vet Philadelphia, PAJuly 10, 2014 4:01 p.m.
The Big 12 needs to get dropped from the playoff due to not having played a CCG before they finally go ahead and add a pair of teams, but even when they DO decide to expand, it won't be Holmoe's phone that'll be ringing. When the Big 12 expands, they'll take 2 of the following 4 teams: Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and Tulane. Personally, I think they'll go for UC and UCF in order to tap into the Ohio and Florida markets. USF could also get the Big 12 into Florida, but UCF had the better Football program, and the larger alumni association. Tulane is the long shot, as it does nothing more than get the Big 12 a bigger toehold into New Orleans/LA. But one thing that's for sure...it won't be the Y. If the Y decides to join a conference, it'll have to petition C-USA, because the MWC won't take 'em back. They'd already burned that bridge.
IQ92 hi, UTJuly 10, 2014 3:58 p.m.
Be patient BYU.
65TossPowerTrap Salmon, IDJuly 10, 2014 3:52 p.m.
If joining the Big-12 means being a doormat like Utah in the Pac-12 - forget it. I'd rather stay independent.
Cougsndawgs West Point , UTJuly 10, 2014 3:30 p.m.
I would love to see BYU in the Big 12 but the reality is there isn't another attractive program to bring with them to get to a championship game and make expansion worthwhile. BYU may bring a large enough quality brand but who else does to join them? Answer: No One. If there had been no one else to join with Utah (Colorado) that commanded a large tv market (Denver), and owned the desired AAU and research status (Colorado) does anyone honestly think the PAC would have taken Utah? No they wouldn't have. That's the reality for BYU, no one else can join with them that brings enough to the table...then on top of that there's no Sunday play, a reputation for entitlement (deserved or not). These are all hurdles that BYU will have to overcome to ever be in the Big 12.
I think Louisville going to the ACC hurt BYU far more than people realize. They would have been a perfect combination...travel for WVU and a quality brand. Big 12 snoozed and they lost...in the end BYU may have lost also.
Missouri Coug Greenwood, MOJuly 10, 2014 3:09 p.m.
I don't understand how the so-called FIVE can control college football, since ALL schools fall under the rules of the NCAA...If so, shouldn't ALL schools have the same opportunities??? Being from the Midwest: Kansan by birth, Missourian by history, and a Texan by heart, BYU IS THE PERFECT FIT FOR THE BIG 12. There is a STRONG POPULATION OF BYU FANS In every Big 12 STATE...
Slugmaster West Valley City, UTJuly 10, 2014 3:01 p.m.
Forget the Big 12. Do you want to end up with a perennial doormat that can only muster 5 win seasons and embarrassing Pac 12, oops, I mean embarrassing Big 12 window stickers on your car? Play 4 tough games against big name opponents and 8 creampuffs. Win 10 a season and you'll have all the exposure you'll ever need.
Uteology East Salt Lake City, UtahJuly 10, 2014 2:45 p.m.
"All time, BYU owns a 17-21 record against current Big 12 teams."
That can't be right can it? We've been told over and over that BYU would be competitive in a P5 league. Didn't Phil Steel rank BYU in the middle of the pack of P5 leagues this year?
81Ute Central, UTJuly 10, 2014 2:38 p.m.
I continue to suffer heartache for my fellow college football fans that happen to cheer for BYU. The outcome is seen by everybody but you. What else would you expect Mr. Matich to say?
1. Go back to MWC - please do a little research and read about the Utah invitation to the PAC and then BYU's move to independence. There is no option to return to MWC.
2. Join Big12 - West Virginia will get a travel partner in the east long before there is a team from the west invited. There could be multiple schools added simultaneously but east first. Then does it make sense to have two teams in the east? Not really...think about it. I predict eastern movement not western (per WV AD Lucks comments). Who would be BYU's travel partner? Could both of those schools generate $20-million+ each to justify divide by 12?
3. Football only membership - nonstarter, no conference is going to bend/break the rules for BYU maybe the AAC. Geographically, the AAC doesn't make sense. Please don't even start with the absurd idea of football only in the BIG-12 or PAC-12, there is no value to the conferences.
Entwine67 Salt Lake, UTJuly 10, 2014 2:37 p.m.
What I find funny? Is that all the Ute trolls that tried to make a name for themselves on SL Trib comment boards, have move on over to the Des News comment boards to try to get an audience. Hilarious!
Coog Fan in Spokane Spokane, WAJuly 10, 2014 2:15 p.m.
I completely agree with Mormon Ute: the incentive for expansion for the Big 12 is the same as was indicated for the Pac 10/12 - to be able to have 2 divisions and a conference championship. That's how increasing the so-called "denominator" to 12 makes sense - the additional revenue exceeds the additional 2-team allocation (in theory). You also expend your TV market footprint and hopefully work a more lucrative TV deal. If the Big 12 offers a "Football only" invitation, BYU should take it, no question.
Even if BYU can manage a Notre Dame-type arrangement with the Big 12, to play 5 opponents a year for the time being, they should take it. Anything to improve their conference alignment prospects. When the deck chairs get shuffled again, it will happen quickly.
As far as rejoining the MW, no way, no how. Never.
BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CAJuly 10, 2014 2:11 p.m.
Hey Ute fans, tell us what you think about this subject. We BYU fans really want to know. Really.
TIA, BlueNtheFace
Go Cougs.
Danite Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 2:01 p.m.
If the Power5 conferences break off from the rest of college football and create their own rules and governing body, what would BYU do (if they didn't get in one of those conferences)? Would they rejoin the MW? Continue independent? Drop sports altogether? Has anyone heard any rumors about this scenario? It's not at all far fetched....
Mormon Ute Kaysville, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:40 p.m.
I think BYU's best option is to go football only into the Big 12. Leave the other sports in the WCC. That way they don't have to worry about Sunday play and they get access to everything the want in football. Hopefully the Big 12 will be willing to look consider that.
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:37 p.m.
@ Big Al
BYU went 2-5 against P5 teams last year, and 5 (all losses) of those games BYU had a bye week, or extended time to prepare for the game. To me that says BYU can't compete at a P5 level even when the "week-in, week-out" grind component has been removed.
Che26 SALT LAKE CITY, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:35 p.m.
Just a note BYU won their second Commissioners cup from the WCC. The cup is an all sports reward presented at the end of the academic year. This last year the 2013-2014 year BYU won the Cup by a record 12.5 points.
MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:34 p.m.
Another article on the disappointment of independence. I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider the damage control byu will have to do if, after the Power 5 separate themselves from the rest of the pack, byu remains on the outside. Independence will have to be sold to byu fans all over again.
"But if BYU loses a seat at the table as an independent, then being in a conference would be the only option."
byu can't lose something they never had.
Big Al Chandler, AZJuly 10, 2014 1:27 p.m.
I personally like the "outsider" role BYU's independence provides--even though I see some of the disadvantages of having no conference alignment. Conference and athletic "independence" seems to fit in with BYU's desire for collegiate independence in virtually all other phases of higher education and academia. I think the "spoiler" role is one BYU should relish--a David amidst all the arrogance of the PAC-12 and SEC and Big-10 Goliaths.
BYU proves year after year that it can compete well against the Power 5 institutions (only one of the reasons the most recent snub by the SEC is ridiculous). Keep the Independent status, and keep being a fly in their proverbial ointment!
Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:23 p.m.
"BYU brings eyeballs to television sets. That makes money for everybody. And when BYU makes you money, you find a place for BYU."
BYU fans keep reciting this narrative, but it seems to be at odds with reality. WVU's AD is quoted saying ""Our denominator is 10. The more you split it up ... I don't think we can find a partner who's available right now to stay at the value we have (per school) or let alone increase what we have. That's the consensus we have (staying at 10)." If BYU was worth as much as the DNews suggests, they would have been the first team taken when the first round of expansion happened.
PhilRM Anchorage, AKJuly 10, 2014 1:22 p.m.
With all of the conference realignment I always wonder what would have happened if Boise State, BYU, TCU, and Utah had stuck together. Could they have generated any excitement? Sure, the MWC had dead weight like UNLV, San Jose State, Wyoming, and others. But every conference has dead weight, look at the Pac-12 with Utah, Colorado, and Washington State. Look at the Big-12 with Kansas and TCU. If BYU could just get a yearly schedule similar to what Notre Dame has then I think they are fine as an independent.
ekute Layton, UTJuly 10, 2014 1:04 p.m.
The Big 12 and the MWC don't want byu. It better focus on conference usa and the aac.
Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CAJuly 10, 2014 12:59 p.m.
"Should Cougars focus on getting into Big 12"? Sure, focus all you want...you're not getting in.
I'm focusing on getting a date with Sophia Vergara. That's about as likely as BYU getting into a P5 conference.
SportsChemistry ENGLEWOOD, COJuly 10, 2014 12:56 p.m.
"I think BYU in the Big 12 makes a lot of sense. It makes sense geographically but it also makes sense from a football standpoint," Matich said.
Really? The closest school is what, Texas Tech? And then you also have to consider Sunday play. Baseball, basketball, golf, etc. are played on Sundays. The WCC has been very accommodating of that. And, considering BYU hasn't mopped the floor with the WCC like they did the WAC and the MWC, I don't think there will be a lot of leverage for the Big XII to change their current schedules.
If the Big XII does expand, it's going to be east. In my opinion, BYU needs to get talking to Colorado State, the Air Force Academy, or Wyoming to lobby for football-only inclusion to the PAC-12. Sunday play won't be a factor, they actually make sense geographically, and they already have in-state rivals. I think the PAC-12 is still holding out that Texas and Oklahoma will come over, but since the Big XII looks like they are thriving, don't think that will happen.
RSL* Why, AZJuly 10, 2014 12:38 p.m.
They could always return to their glory days in the Mountain West. I could see that happening if they don't get in with the Big 12. The Ute's could also come back to the Mountain West to make it 14 teams and then they both can become more relevant.
FT salt lake city, UTJuly 10, 2014 12:24 p.m.
Won't they have to stay independent unless they're willing to play events on Sunday?
Johnny Triumph American Fork, UTJuly 10, 2014 12:24 p.m.
BYU is good for the present but needs to look bigger and at a conference affiliation. And that's what they've been doing. They haven't been keeping quiet on the subject and waiting like there's no problem with remaining independent. They've been actively looking for ways to improve their situation and will continue to do so. Good for the BYU AD and Dept for keeping this in the news so much, now some execution on the field will go a long way. Go Cougars!