text:
I'm going to go ahead and call BS on this.
Ohio spreading Hoke NFL rumors
Is he getting Brady and Jon confused?
something confused...
I think it's Peppers. He says it did not originate with negative recruiting rather his own research. I'm obviously skeptical that anyone's own research would lead them to conclude that Hoke has an NFL future. I think he simply knows better than to look a gift horse in the mouth. The coach who told him this lie offered him a scholarship and for that reason he'll keep his name out of the press.
Sounds like negative recruiting.
Isn't chasports.com Ace Williams? I refuse to click the link and see.
Good call.
This is through rivals I think. But I linked an actual article you could read.
My point is that Ace Williams trolls for clicks, so linking to him or clicking on those links just feeds the troll. I refused to feed the troll any more than you already had.
Sorry I didn't know I usually just look at 247 insider stuff. I changed it for all of you.
Damn you, Urban Meyer speading lies again.
Definitely bs. I Love Brady but I think the nfl would eat him alive.
You really think that? I suppose the point is moot. His heart stays in Ann Arbor no matter where he travels.
His brother Jon seems to be thriving in the NFL. Don't know why you think Brady would get eaten alive.
Is a defensive backs coach. When people say that a coach is going to make the jump to the pros from a major school it is implied that they will be going to be head coaching at the next level. There is a huge difference between being an NFL head coach and defensive backs coach.
Im not knocking brady, just that hes the ultimate players coach and those money hungry players would walk all over him. They're playing for themselves and not a higher institution or franchise.
Good point. Mattison had success in the NFL, but along the same lines wasn't fulfilled by professional coaching, as he was recruiting/moulding college talent
Chatsports? Isn't that Ace William's site?
Unless we're all being duped by Hoke...I'm chalking this one up to negative recruiting.
I think it'd just be a shame if info came out that URBAN MEYER allegedly KILLED 5 HOOKERS WITH CRAIG JAMES.
With Carr it was Alzheimer's, with Hoke it's the NFL. Other schools love making crap up about our coach.
Not Alzeimer's or MS, but Parkinson's.
You're right. By bad.
I thought it was Parkinson's.
you aren't fooling me RDT..errr Section 1
If he actually heard this, there's probably only one person it would come from, and I think you know who that is.
....from a college buddy whose brother-in-law heard from a recently fired MAC assistant coach that Urban Meyer was awash in NFL offers. And I believe it! Because I'm an credulous guy!
Now...let's everyone go out and spread this quite reliable word.
i heard the same exact thing and i live all the way out in Hawaii!
must be true: urban meyer to go pro this coming season. it's a fact.
Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Urban pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
Thank you, Simone.
Chatsports. This is just negative recruiting at play.
Don't read that website!!! And don't post links to it, either. Any publicity just encourages BS like what gets posted there.
Per above it is a rivals article.
Is your "in-state preview of 2014 recruiting" the long post you were working on?
Yes, it was.
This is one large poop sandwich of a thread.
love this
Is it time to raise the point limit on starting threads yet?
This is from Rivals. Peppers came out and claimed that no one is negative recruiting but it's pretty much bullshit because Urban has a track record of pulling shit like this with recruits. Unfortunately, it seems to have worked with Jabril.
Urban is more likely to retire twice from "health" problems in the next 5 years than Hoke taking an NFL job.
I heard that Urban Meyer once quit his football team because he had heart problems and then went back to coaching a year later.
Yes but it has been documented that Hoke is not very satisfied with landing the Michigan job. He said he would have crawled to Ann Arbor for the job. I only feel comfortable with a coach who would have done the crabwalk backwards all the way.
Is this be one of the recruiting tips that Meyer gives to lowly Big Ten coaches . . . make bad shit up about the other coaches?
I heard that Meyer is going to go to prison for sexual harrassment.
Hey, that's pretty easy. I think Jerry Kill should try that.
Negative recruiting is one thing when you point out something actually negative about something (i.e. "Hey recruit X, did you know Lane Kiffin is a huge douchebag?"). But I don't understand what there is to gain by outright lying. Can't Hoke just tell Peppers that this is all BS, and then the guy spreading lies will have his credibility shot and look like a major asshole? The only way this works is if somehow Hoke has zero contact with Peppers between now and signing day...
This is what got Lawrence Marshall to commit to OSU—Urban told him that Brady was going to become HC of the Lions.
If Jabrill Peppers actually believed the Hoke-maybe-to-NFL rumors, he's not an overly bright young man. Out of all the coaches at the D1 level in college ball, Brady Hoke is among the least likely to go to the NFL at this point in his career.
Did I miss something? Was that actually reported (about Lawrence Marshall)?
but it's easy to speculate—Marshall was a bit of a surprise commit to OSU, and if we're now hearing that OSU might be the source of the Hoke-to-NFL baloney, nothing would surprise me.
This doesn't help Meyer at all IMHO, if it's true that his staff is the source. All he's doing is putting an extra-large bullseye on his back for the other conference coaches.
I just wonder if this compulsive lying ever comes back to bite him in other ways. Didn't he have a lot of players transferring out towards the end of his time at Florida?
that it's bitten his ass in his personal life. But that's neither here nor there, and if this were any other thread I wouldn't mention it.
What do you mean? He would never lie to his family. He would never tell his kids that he's done with coaching when in reality he was about to take a job with the most toothless university on the planet.
But I wouldn't call OSU toothless. Spineless, sure. Gutless? Yep. Shameless, for sure. Not sure about toothless though.
I actually think that lack of teeth is a very accurate description of several/many/most Ohio fans.
Hoke will spend 5 years at Michigan, win a couple NCs (yes, that means 2 out of the next 3), and go to the NFL. Jim Harbaugh, who is bored after 2 straight Super Bowl championships, returns to Michigan.
5 years later, both win it all two more times at their new jobs, get bored and swap jobs.
Hit repeat a few times, until Mike Hart/Tyrone Wheatly/Kovacs/Denard/etc. is ready to assume the head coach job at Michigan.
Jim harbaugh
Just glad this BS didn't come out a few weeks ago...
Ohio hooey. And that's the foulest, smelliest kind.
I knew it!! It's because he can't close on big time recruits.
Now the title is even worse!
I saw this in the ESPN Rumors section on their website but didn't believe it...Now that I see the facts, I believe it less.
Don't click anything from ChatSpots. Pure Garbage.
This is ridiculous, but the coaching staff shouldn't have too much trouble explaining things to Peppers or anyone else. Hopefully this will blow up in the face of the person(s) who spread the rumor.
Also, why does this seem to be coming from OSU? Any reason other than general dislike of them?
His own research it would of come up, Hoke wants to Michigan from California for dream job! Without knowing his salary, before accepting job! This is some whacked as bs!!
Walks to Michigan, dang phone!
Peppers should watch this video of Hoke talking about Michigan:
Scratch that. Apparently the updated link includes some info about the sources of the rumors. Instead of my sarcastic jab at the OP, here's a GIF of a baby pygmy goat playing:
Peppers isn't the only recruit who was told this lie.
"More than one recruit has mentioned to Hoke that OSU coaches are the source of the rumor and Brady has emphatically told the players that he will be at Michigan for as long as they will have him, hopefully for 20+ years. The guy is living his dream job and is as genuine as they come."
Who is the reporter?
I copied and pasted that quote into google.
It is from chatsports.
And they also say this in the same report:
A few months back, we were told off the record that Michigan coaches had been telling recruits that they would be in Ann Arbor for years after Meyer in Columbus and to only expect the 2X National Championship winning coach to only be the head man at OSU for 3 more seasons until he gets bored.
This all sounds like a bunch of crap.
how this fits into Urban's recruiting tips for the other Big Ten coaches.
Is that you again? Are you back from the London tabloid trying to spread rumors again?
to double-point. Hoke ain't going anywhere he can't double-point.
I'm ready to bring back Rich Rod anyway.
Too soon?
/s (obligatory, you guys know how the Internet can be sometimes)
After Friday all the B1G coaches will have Urban's full tutorial on how to improve B1G recruiting by emulating OSU.
Wait until you see #3: Tell recruits that Hoke requires players to attend class regularly.
Hoke going to the NFL is laughable. He is a college coach if I've ever seen one. I think he loves being in that teacher role, something he'd lose in going to the NFL.
I find this hard to believe that OSU coaches are spreading these rumors. For whatever reason, I can't see Meyer stooping this low. But hey, I've been wrong before.
Besides, why would OSU fans want Hoke gone? Wouldn't they want him to stick around so their "SEC defense" can dominate us thoroughly for a thousand generations as they're supposedly believing?
I'm not at all ready to pin this on him. Peppers may not have even said that. However, the Florida coaching staff (when Meyer was still there) pretty obviously lied to Daryl Stonum to try to get him to be a Gator. So I'm not sure how low Meyer would go.
Um, unless you caught him first hand with the coed, I'd stay away from saying rumor as fact. Makes you look like a low life asshole.
Are you comparing the baying of a -18 year old to your self? If so, at he didn't insinuate a married man cheated on his wife. Stay classy (love the pict, btw).
Or it makes you look like the asshole that is telling recruits that Hoke is going to the NFL.
Major Applewhite to Ohio?
I don't find it hard at all. This is the culture down in Columbus.
I believe Hoke said " coaches don't leave Michigan to go to the NFL, coaches leave the NFL to go to Michigan."
...I have to say this post made me laugh. Pretty sure if Peppers is buying this BS, he may not be Michigan material.
In other breaking news...Beilein not getting basketball recruits because of multiple NBA head coaching job offers.
For Hoke to say Urban is a broken man and he will likely just quit one day to the top recruits but Coach Hoke would never do that. But Urban would manufacture lies just to get a recruiting edge. Hopefully, the recruits will see past this BS!
Urban is such a great person.
While this is a wonderful pictures, this is at least the second time you've posted it in the last hour...
I <3 sarcasm.
than post this same picture over and over again in every thread. Some kind of actual contribution besides posting this girl over and over again is needed going forward.
urban is a piece of shit.
Hey moron, not ONE coach in Michigan's history left the program to coach another school or in the NFL. NOT ONE.
He left to become Wisconsin's head coach, as well as their AD.
Can't imagine he would be any happier in the league..
The man lives and loves UM football. Have to believe he will stay as long as he is welcome.
I really doubt Meyer would suggest something like that.
Is this why Florida was having Rodriguez level attrition by the time Meyer was leaving? Because all these guys start to realize how much their coach lies to them?
Brady Hoke is assembling an NFL team at the University of Michigan
Why should Hoke go to the NFL? The NFL is coming to him.
It shouldn't be that hard to convince a recruit that he's staying at Michigan, where they can get NFL-level coaching.
Yeah. Hoke isn't leaving unless the AD makes him leave. This is his last stop on the coaching road.
Welcome to my world.
The difference being that Brian Kelly actually did have an interview with an NFL team, no?
If other schools are going to use that to try and negative recruit ND, it's a dick move, but it's still Kelly kind of screwing himself to a certain extent.
Brady Hoke to the NFL is a completely baseless fabrication.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was getting attention from NFL teams. The guy can coach. Michigan was a mess when he took over in 2011.
So what? Every guy that gets a wink does not cheat.
It's on the Internet so it's obviously true.
Is the one who is going to get temptations in the next couple of years, with some success at osu you can bet that teams with openings probably happening in the near future will be calling him....I can think of USC, Texas, maybe LSU as soon as they get tired of Les screwing something up every year. Also if chip Kelly has success, you can bet some NFL team will talk to urban, I say no more than 5 years and he is a goner.
Doubtful. Texas and USC are lateral moves from OSU and LSU is a step down. Maybe he goes to the NFL, but I would think if he had interest in that he could have written his ticket after he won his 2nd NC.
Fact is, he's from Ohio and is an OSU grad. Chances of him leaving in the next 5 years are pretty slim. Outside of Michigan, nobody is even close to OSU in talent which means he'll win at least 10 games every year.
Might be on par as a program to those schools but Austin and LA are a helluva lot better than Columbus. When urban finds out he can't do some of the sleaze-ball things consistently in the B1G as he could in the SEC, he will head that direction again or a school like I mentioned. He will be at Ohio for no more than 5-6 years. I just don't see him sticking around...the NFL will be more realistic now than after his 2nd title due to the NFL risking it with chip Kelly, if he is successful, an NFL team will look for the next "chip Kelly" type. Plus, urbs didn't graduate from Ohio, he was an assistant years back...
May be a step down, although if it is, not by much, it is SEC and can reel in the same, probably more talent than Ohio, granted, I still look at Texas and USC being gigs urban would look into, USC is nowhere near a lateral move compared to Ohio. USC is probably one of the best jobs in America...
At least ten wins. That weak schedule ohio has this upcoming season is laughable. Other than Michigan, the only team showing any upside is northwestern at their place. Unfortunately, unless they trip up against Wisky or Purdue its easy sailing until the final game.
Graduated from Cincinnati not OSU.
Graduate assistant at osu
Keep_em_honest - while I agree with much of your post, Urban did not graduate from OSU. He graduated and played at Cinci. He was a grad assistant at OSU under Bruce Earl.
Urban has a master's degree in something from OSU. He did his undergrad at UC.
So just to clarify - there isn't any evidence that Meyer said anything about this, right?
enough? Its OHIO fergodsake!
Hoke will easily squash this rumor.
I'd be much more than a little surprised if Hoke left for the NFL. Virtually every action Hoke has taken and every word he has spoken drips with his love of Michigan and the position he is in as the head coach of it.
Hoke bolting to the NFL would actually be more shocking to me than Meyer calling a press conference at which he pulls off a mask and reveals he is actually a green faced Martian whose love of the game of football drove him to fly to Earth and impersonate a human so that Meyer could fulfill his wish of being a collegiate coach.
Hoke will take a NFL job in California (looking at you Raiders) and then quit immediately, Brandon will re-hire on the spot and the Hoke will actually walk all the way to Ann Arbor just to said, "I told you we would walk to Michigan."
Urban has long been thought to be a possible NFL departure. (see link below)
Urban has a long history of leaving when the going gets tough--as well as lying about his intentions (ex: telling recuits he would not leave Fla, then leaving, then coming back and telling recruits he would stay, then leaving again).
Urban may feel motivated to leave because he took the Ohio job without knowing the extent of Ohio's NCAA penalties. Did Ohio falsely reassure him that there would be no bowl ban or schoarship restrictions?
And what if Ohio's NCAA violations resurface?. Many believe that Ohio's problems did not suddenly vanish overnight with Tressel's departure If half a dozen players were found to be taking illegal money in the last few years, how many others were also? Does anyone seriously believe that none of Tressel's former players are still on the take?
Clearly, Urban is a much higher flight risk and for many reasons.
The UM coaching situation--with mutiple career-long commitments--is as stable as it can get.
I think I remember reading that OSU gave Meyer an out in his contract if previous violations resurfaced. Obviously, OSU is not going to do that unless they feel confident there is not another shoe to drop. Add to that the fact the NCAA and every major sports outlet went through their program with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find anything other than some tats and pocket change from charity events.
So apparently someone told him that we have a coach that is good enough to leave for the NFL. But is not, because he loves Michigan. I'll take that.
If Hoke has interviewed for a job or if teams have offered or even talked about offering, ESPN would be all over it. There is no way this loser would be breaking the story first...
Meyer said it just look at how he stole all those psu recruits and snitch on Cam Newton
but it is scary that a recruit would actually believe this...Ohio must be doing a full court press! There is probably not one other coach in the major D-1 is LESS of a flight risk than Hoke. Time to start the Urban to the Hospital or Urban to the NFL meme.
He's blue for life.
It's a picture of boobies! Ever open a fifteen-post thread at work and get two different 800x600 pictures of impossibly fake boobs alternating for pages and pages? And then have your boss walk up behind you? Thanks, internet hero, for turning my idle surfing of a sports site into a firing offense! No one needs to see the same set of fake gazongas eighty times accompanied by your three words of deep insight into the team of your choice. EXAMPLE Go to Rivals and click on a thread. DIAGNOSIS Person is fourteen and has a constant boner. Likely to turn into a guy who says "stud" constantly after being rejected by women for the next ten to eighty years. CURE An introduction to life's harsh realities, hopefully beginning with a slap upside the head.
Urban must be shaking in his boots about Peppers coming Herr of he would go to such lengths.. When peppers visits he will see coach Hoke isn't going anywhere, this is his dream job. Urban really is a fucking serpent.
Hoke is more Pure Michigan than those T.V. ads. This is total hokum in my opinion. Brady Hoke is as entrenched as any coach in the Top 25. Would anyone be surprised if Saban or Meyer, or Brian Kelly jumped to another school or the NFL? Nope. Is Hoke gonna walk to New Jersey to coach Mark Sanchez, or to Oakland to coach that tire fire? Don't think so.
Do I answer my own questions when I get angry? Yes.
"Mind on drugs" PSA campaign
Chatsports got it all wrong. I heard from a good source in Ohio that Hoke's in line to succeed the Pope...
Are you saying the kid is outright lying? That doesn't really seem like a smart way to go about telling people you don't like a school.
Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think Hoke will end his career at Michigan. This is his dream job and he is very passionate about Michigan. Just because there are offers on the table doesn't mean he's going to go. I'm sure they will talk about it and clear it all up.
The story is obviously a lie and I'd be surprised if i wasn't Meyer spreading it. That being said, somebody has got to get a handle on these twitter idiots who are tweeting these kids. I just took a look at Peppers' timeline (I don't tweet, I just follow people and somebody I follow mentioned him so I wanted to check it out) and it's clear that the kid is having a rough go of it with Michigan fans right now. I'm not saying that's the reason he wouldn't choose Michigan, but it certainly can't help.
whos to say those are not buckeye fans impersonating Michigan fans
Ironic, considering the ego-monster that is Urban Meyer is FAR more likely to bolt for the NFL (after a 9 day retirement to preserve his health and family life, of course.)
Urban will bail on O$U for the NFL. The clock is ticking.
Ohio has won 7* or the last 9 meetings with Michigan, just signed the #2 recruiting class in the country and is preseason ranked #4 in the country for the coming season and Meyer feels he has to resort to bullshit like this to compete? Unbelievable.
* 2010 vacated


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Coach Jake Trahern's dribblers will kick off the three-day eight-team tournament with a tough contest against the Hays Indians in a 2 p.m. MST tipoff today at Colby High School, 1890 S. Franklin Ave.
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Cougars crush Deer Trail
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"We put together a great game against Deer Trail," related head coach Jake Trahern, whose squad had only one win to their credit.
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Burlington drops one to Holyoke
Burlington's varsity basketball boys dropped a non-league battle to visiting Holyoke Saturday, Jan. 12, in a 58-55 barn-burner.
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See The Record's sports section for more info.


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Inside the Ropes
WGC-Bridgestone Invitational
Firestone Country Club South Course, Akron, Ohio
South Course
Yards: 7,400 per the scorecard
Par: 70 (35-35)
Greens: Pencross bentgrass, Poa annua; 7,600 square feet on average
Stimpmeter: 13+
Rough: Kentucky bluegrass and perennial ryegrass at 2.5"-4"
Bunkers: 82
Water Hazards: 3
Course Architect: Bert Way (1928); Redesign: Robert Trent Jones (1960)
Purse: $8,500,000
Winner's Share: $1,400,000, 550 FedExCup points
Defending Champion: Adam Scott went wire-to-wire to win by four shots over Rickie Fowler and Luke Donald.
Date: August 2-5
Notes: There are 77 players in the field this week and there is no cut.
Since becoming a World Golf Championship in 1999, Tiger Woods has won seven of the 13 tournaments.
The 2002 tournament, won by Craig Parry (remember him!), was played outside Seattle at Sahalee Country Club as the South Course was hosting the Senior PGA Championship.
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Of the top 30 in the FedExCup, 26 are participating this week. Robert Garrigus, John Huh and Ben Curtis join Webb Simpson on the sidelines this week.
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"Young" Guns versus "Middle" Guns versus "Old" Guns
In 33 events on TOUR in 2012 the "Middle" guns have equalized their younger competitors on the back of 33-year old Scott Piercy win last week at the RBC Canadian Open, 15-15-3. The "Old" guns had their glory last week as Ernie Els won the third major of 2012.
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So What? So Let's Dance!
Noted for its length, the par-70, 7,360 yard South Course includes a series of intimidating, long par 4 holes and one of the longest par 5's anywhere. The 16th hole plays to 667 yards. A pond in front of the green captures its share of errant shots. Usually, the casualties aren't the result of futile attempts to reach the green in two. They are third shots from players who hit errant tee shots and find the woods. A well-placed long tee shot does not guarantee the opportunity to get home in two.
Players, however, have a birdie opportunity on the only other par 5, the 497-yard second hole. The 18th hole, though, is all the par 4 anyone would ever want to play. At 464 yards, it is long, narrow and has a green defended by bunkers. It's not a place to expect to make a birdie to win. The 16th hole doesn't have the market covered on length. Before you even get there, the par 3, 221 yard, 15th provides enough of a challenge. The flat green makes for a straight putt, but getting the ball close to the hole can be a problem. From the tee, bunkers on the left of the green are hidden and provide for unpleasant surprises. If a 221-yard par 3 isn't enough, try the 200-yard 5th hole. The small green can be reached with a 5- or 6- iron but you might need as much as a 3-iron when the wind is blowing. Strange as it may seem, it is not one of the toughest scoring holes. That honor goes to two of the par 4s. The 6th hole is 469 yards of heartburn. It has ranked as the second- and first-toughest challenge for professionals at Firestone over the years. When Robert Trent Jones redesigned Firestone into "The Monster" in 1959, this hole made par an excellent score. The 471-yard fourth hole is another test. All the hole asks a player to do is hit a long and straight tee shot followed by an approach shot that must come in high to hold the elevated green. Sometimes that's easier said than done. But then again, that's the best way to sum up Firestone Country Club's South Course. Source: GCSAA
There's no mystery to why Tiger Woods has dominated this course over time. He hits a ton of fairways, has a high ball-flight and loves to putt fast greens. Adam Scott, one of the better ball-strikers on TOUR followed that formula last year as well, interestingly enough with Stevie Williams on the bag. Luke Donald, who finished T2 here last year, showed that you don't have to be a bomber to contend either. The course is long and tight and if you can keep it in the fairways, you'll have more chances to find positions on the green where you can hole putts. Guys that hit it crooked and don't putt very well will struggle this week. Last year Tiger Woods, in his return from injury, didn't hit a fairway on the front nine Sunday. That wasn't good. To put scoring in perspective, Scott's 12-under-par after 54-holes last year was the lowest in 10 years; His 17-under was second-best since 1999 (Tiger Woods 21-under in 2000). The average winning score in 12 events since 1999 has been just below 12-under par.
The Contenders:
The Top 15
Tiger Woods: He's won here seven times. He's won 16 WGC events. Geoff Ogilvy is in second place with three victories. He was rubbish, according to most, at The Open and finished T3. His ball-striking has been excellent and I believe you will see his putter return this week on fast, bentgrass greens.
Luke Donald: The world's No. 1 player has three top 10 finishes in seven-career starts at the South Course, including T2 in 2011. His confidence and game looked to be in great shape after grinding his way to T5. In Donald's last seven events, his worst finish was MC at the U.S. Open. The six cuts he's made have included a win (BMW PGA) and everything else T16 or better. Yes, please.
Hunter Mahan: The champion in 2010 is coming off a week where he made four double-bogeys in Canada to finish T48. The good news is he finished with a very solid 66 so it looks like he is back and ready to get after it. He's one of the few on TOUR who has multiple wins in the WGC and has them both in the last three years. 2011 was his worst start in five here finishing T37. His other finishes are WIN, T4, T10 and T22 in 2007.
Adam Scott: The defending champion was THIS close to returning to Tiger's old stomping ground with an Open Championship as well. Do you think THAT story would have carried any weight this week with Ol' Stevie on the bag as well? This is a perfect rebound tournament for Scott and that's why I like him this week. No cut, good vibes, big crowd and a nice paycheck should make him comfy has he tries to erase the final four holes from Royal Lytham & St Annes from his memory at least for a day or two. Superior ball-striker led the way here last year wire-to-wire.
Rickie Fowler: After a torrid run of form which saw finish WIN, T2 and T5 came to a screeching halt in the final group on Sunday with Tiger Woods at the Memorial and 84. I remember because he was my projected winner that week and he ended the day T52. His last two events on TOUR have been majors, finishing T41 at Olympic Club and T31 at Royal Lytham & St. Annes. He's made seven straight cuts and was T2 last here finishing at 13-under, four shots behind Scott. Fowler's excellent ball-striking will give him a chance this week.
Jason Dufner: In his last four events on TOUR Dufner's finished WIN, second, T4 and T31. Like Fowler, his last two events have been the U.S. Open (T4) and The Open Championship (T31). I used to get nervous when guys haven't played certain courses before but since his runner-up at the PGA Championship last year, I've thrown out that caveat with Dufner. His game travels and fits any course. It should when you strike the golf ball like he does. Oh, and he's made 15 straight cuts which trails Kuchar's lead of 23 for most currently on TOUR.
Zach Johnson: Johnson has had an excellent summer and I see no reason for him to slow down this week in Akron. In eight starts at the South Course, Johnson has five finishes inside the top 16 including T6 last year, his best of the bunch. Johnson's game is him shape and his putting (No. 1 in strokes gained-putting) has been excellent.
Nicolas Colsaerts: His coming out party was at Royal Lytham & St. Annes as he produced bookend 65's to finish T7 at The Open Championship. He proved that he was more than just a long-ball expert but that trait sure doesn't hurt on a par-70, 7,400 yard track. Colsaerts has eight finishes in the top 10, including a victory, this season on the European Tour. If you think he's just a bomber, remember he won the Volvo Match Play earlier this year and it takes more than hitting it deep to defeat a field of that quality.
Lee Westwood: The world No. 4 has had excellent success just about everywhere he plays at the South Course is not any different. His last four times playing in Akron has seen Westwood finish T2, ninth, WD and T9 last year. Fairways and greens are boring, I know, but he has no pressure on him this week like he did at The Open so I expect another solid finish.
Dustin Johnson: His length will be a benefit this week as he embarks on his seventh tournament back from a back injury. After opening with 73 at The Open Championship, Johnson posted back-to-back 68's before firing 71 on Sunday for T9 in his last time out. He finished T48 last year but was T22 GIR. Must. Putt. Better.
Bubba Watson: Watson made a huge leap in my book last time out as he showed excellent maturity in finishing a solid T23 (best-ever) at The Open Championship. He stuck to his game plan and executed, to a degree, on a course that probably wasn't easy on his eyes. After questioning his ability to play at Olympic Club, Watson has followed up with T2 at the Travelers and T23 at The Open. Watson leads the TOUR in GIR and driving distance so guess what club he's going to need to cooperate this week? He's finished T22 in 2010 and T21 last year in his only two appearances.
Rory McIlroy: The enigma, trapped inside a riddle…well, maybe not all of that but I'm having a hard time getting a handle on McIlroy lately. He has the talent; there's no question. He's mentioned his desire might be lacking at times. He's in love in his early 20's. The only answers I can't find are on the golf course. Since his P2 at WFC in early May, he's MC (THE PLAYERS), MC (BMW PGA), MC (Memorial), T7 (FESJC), MC (U.S. Open), T10 (Irish Open) and T60 at Royal Lytham & St. Annes. The only reason he made the list this week is because he finished T6 last year and T9 in 2010 here. He's a horse for course that is currently off-course.
Matt Kuchar: With finishes of T19 and T9 in his last two trips to Akron, it's hard to overlook Mr. Consistent. He's turning into a young man's Steve Stricker in how consistent he plays. For Kuchar's sake, you hope he starts hitting the win category a little more frequently but he's a fantasy lay-up. He had his worst finish on TOUR since April (T44 RBC Heritage) last week with T34 at the RBC Canadian. I blame RBC for this. This week, he's at home with Bridgestone!
Bo Van Pelt: Van Pelt rebounded from only his second MC of 2012 (The Open Championship) to open 65-66 last week in Canada. He eventually finished T7 after a quiet weekend but that was his seventh finish in the top 10 this year. I have no worries about him again this week as he was T3 in 2010 and T23 last year. Steady off the tee, solid into greens and being an excellent putter is a great combination this week and most weeks as BVP has shown in 2012.
Stepping up in Class
Guys who you might not "see" in a massive field such as this
Retief Goosen: He's finished T10 (U.S. Open) T64 (The Open Championship) and T10 last week in Canada in his last three. He was T3 in 2010 and T4 in 2008 here. Seven of his 11 starts here have been top 25 finishes. Guess which week I put him in the column? No, go ahead; you'll get it right…
Martin Laird: He's finished T11 last year and T16 in 2010 in his only two appearances. He was 10-under heading into the final round last year before his 72 on Sunday pushed him out of the top 10. Laird played three of four rounds at The Open Championship at par or better. His 82 on Saturday was the only exception. His 70 on Sunday showed an excellent bounce-back.
Scott Piercy: He won last week to gain entrance into this week's field. In his last three starts, he's recorded WIN, third and T12. Not too many hotter on TOUR or anywhere else in the world right now.
Rubber Baby Buggy Bumpers
Guys who might bounce in the wrong direction this week
Phil Mickelson: One top 25 in his last nine (2008, T4). In his last three events on TOUR he's been MC, MC and T65.
Robert Allenby: Eight of his 10 finishes here have been T23 or better. He's MC in his last four TOUR events since his T7 FESJC.
Jonathan Byrd: He was T59 last year and T71 in 2003 in his only two appearances. Since his T6 at the Memorial he has posted T56, T22, T54 and MC.
Inside the Ropes Part Deux
Reno-Tahoe Open
Montreux Golf & Country Club, Reno, Nevada
Yards: 7,472 per the scorecard
Par: 72 (36-36)
Greens: Bentgrass, Poa annua; 5,500 square feet on average
Stimpmeter: 11.5 ft.
Rough: Kentucky bluegrass, perennial ryegrass and fescue at 3.5"-4"
Bunkers: 62
Water Hazards: 6
Course Architect: Jack Nicklaus, 1995; Redesign Jack Nicklaus 2002
Purse: $3,000,000
Winner's Share: $540,000, 250 FedExCup points
Defending Champion: Scott Piercy made a seven-foot par putt on the 72nd hole to defeat Pat Perez by one shot for his first-career TOUR victory.
Notes: Full-field event; Modified Stableford scoring system.
There have been seven first-time winners in 13 editions of the Reno-Tahoe Open, including last year's winner Scott Piercy.
Piercy is the only native of the state of Nevada to win this event.
Vaughn Taylor is the only multiple winner of this event and, obviously, is the only golfer who has defend his championship.
The Stars and Stripes have won all 13 Reno-Taho Opens. The Stars and Stripes have won 28 of 33 events on TOUR in 2012.
Only five of 13 winners here have been in their 20's.
So What? So Let's Dance!
7,472 yards sit at an elevation between 5,000 and 6,000 feet. The Sierra setting has towering pine trees, creeks, seven lakes, four waterfalls, and drops and rises in elevation. Montreux is Northern Nevada's only Jack Nicklaus Signature Design golf course. Nicklaus has stated that Montreux is one of his top five courses. A flood destroyed No. 17 in January 1997, which had to be rebuilt in the spring of 1998. After the flooding in 1997, the creek that now runs through No. 17 was found to be a natural water way and was worked into the redesign, as it was not part of the original design of the hole. In 2002, more property was acquired and three additional holes were added to the course to the right of No. 6. These scenic holes were added to replace the previous No. 1, 2, and 3, which had more of a high desert design. The original first three holes are now part of the practice facility. Since the addition of the new holes, Montreux is almost entirely in the forest. Since its inception in 1999, the Reno-Tahoe Open has played Montreux with the front and back nines reversed. Beginning last year, the course was be played as it was designed, which should make the finishing holes a bit more interesting as they require a higher degree of accuracy and offer more risk/reward shots. Source: GCSAA
Last year, the course was played in its original, 18-hole format. This year, they will keep that going plus add the Modified Stableford scoring system. Please click this link for more information if you are not familiar with the system. Jack Nicklaus courses are known for their generous fairways and Montreux is no different. The altitude should help the players eat up these 7,472 without much problem as the ball will travel farther this week. Players will have to take advantage of their iron play this week if they are going to contend but as Robert Garrigus demonstrated last week, you will have to make putts as well if you're banging GIR. Long-hitters should have an advantage this week as they can attack the greens with shorter irons in their hands. The average winning score here has been just over 17-under par in the 12 events. Last year Scott Piercy won at 17 under so this will be another week on TOUR where pressing 20-under will win. That means birdies and eagles will have to be made and bogeys and worse must be avoided, especially with the introduction of the Modified Stableford scoring system. Just imagine if they were using the REGULAR Stableford scoring system!* It would be chaos for all!
*Note: Just like I'm not sure if the Mini Cooper is derived from the Cooper, I have no idea if there really is a Stableford scoring system or why the one they are using this week is "modified". As you were, people…
The Contenders
Here's a 10-pack to start with, in order, as always
Chris Kirk: After missing three consecutive cuts "Captain" Kirk has played some very solid golf in his last three outings, improving his final position each time. He opened with T30 at John Deere but fired all four rounds under par. At the True South the following week, he fired 15-under to claim a share of 10th. It almost all came together last week in Canada but he was unable to back up his Saturday 63 with another low one on Sunday so he settled for T4. He's 39-under par in those three events. I look for him to continue to get low this week.
Pat Perez: Last year's runner-up to Scott Piercy, Perez lines up perfectly this week but he hasn't had a top 10 since late May. He leads the field in birdie average, birdie-to-bogey ratio, birdie-or-better average and is fourth in bogey avoidance. I believe he will take advantage of the new scoring format with his aggressive style.
Padraig Harrington: Form is temporary; class is permanent. I like the fact that Harrington signed up to play this week when he could have easily just packed his bags at headed to Kiawah Island to prepare for the PGA Championship. He's not taking the easy route so that tells me his game must be feeling pretty good. In his last five TOUR outings, he's finished T15, T13, T4, T11 and T39 at Royal Lytham & St. Annes. That form should carry him this week even in Modified Stableford scoring.
S.Y. Noh: Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Here we are again with another week, another start for Noh and another appearance in the column. He's now made 12 cuts on the bounce and 19 of 23 for 2012. He's second on TOUR in most birdies made and can take it deep of the tee, hence why he leads the TOUR in par-five performance. In his last six events his worst finish is T27 and includes a T4 and T7. He will win; it's just a question of when.
Josh Teater: After his last two appearances on TOUR, he should change his name to "Heater". After missing four of five weekends, Teater has improved his final position on the leaderboard for three straight weeks. His run of solid play began as he finished T36 at John Deere. The following week at the True South he banged his first top 10 of the season with a ninth-place finish that included one round OVER par. He was helped out tremendously by two rounds of 64 though! Last week, he banged in 19 birdies and 66 on Sunday to finish T4 for his best finish since 2010. Teater was also T10 at Montreux last year so he obviously likes the lay out. Get in the saddle!
John Rollins: The "poor man's" Scott Piercy of 2012, Rollins' roller-coaster ride has been interesting as well. He's only made 10 of 18 cuts but nine of those 10 finishes have resulted in top 25's and five top 10's so there's not much "poor" about it. Yet he's missed three of his last four cuts but the one he did make was T4 at the Travelers. Here why I like Rollins this week. He's second in THIS field in birdie average, birdie-to-bogey ratio and birdie-or-better average. Oh, and he's won here (2009) and was T2 (2008) in back-to-back years. He was also T14 in 2002 and 2004. I'm going with "all" portion of "all or nothing" with Rollins this week.
J.B. Holmes: Holmes has quietly put together a nice run of six consecutive weekends of playing golf on TOUR, including T15 last week in Canada. His length will be an advantage this week even at altitude as Jack Nicklaus courses are known for their generous landing areas. This is will be Holmes first time playing this event and his form suggests he should compete again this weekend.
Patrick Cantlay: I'm going to stretch here and ride his momentum from his Monday qualifier into this weekend. Cantlay has found out that it's not as easy on TOUR as he made it look at times last year, including his 60 at the Travelers. Although he's only made a little over $48,000 this year, he has made seven of eight weekends. He showed signs of life in Canada last weekend as he fired his best round of 2012, closing with 66. It obviously carried over to the qualifier and now I'll try to stretch it out to the weekend.
Billy Horschel: He's six-for-six in his last six outings, including a third-place finish at the True South Classic. In Mississippi, he fired a 63 to help vault him up the leaderboard and last week he closed with 64. I'm stretching a bit here but he has been playing well and he was 10th here last year.
Gary Christian: First of all, you gotta like a guy who goes on a pub crawl after hitting his first top 10 on TOUR. Second, for an "old" rookie (40 years old) Christian has been playing some solid golf recently. He's made eight of his last 10 cuts and that includes four finishes of T19 or better. This will be a bit of stretch because he's not long and not a great putter but his form has won me over.
Rolling the Dice
Here are four more that I might need a bit of luck with this week. Just a bit…
Rod Pampling: His best finish in the last five months was T22 at AT&T National. He had an excellent "horse for course" rating at Congressional and that's where he fits in this week as well at Montreux. In his last three starts he's finished T18, T21 and eighth. Back in the early 2000's he had a T3 and T17. Come on boxcars!
Alex Cejka: He's made five cuts in his last five starts on TOUR is the good news. The bad news is those five starts stretch back to the end of April. Across the pond, Cejka has played just three times since the middle of May and his best finish is T49. Don't worry! He owns Montreux! In six career-starts from 2005-2010, Cejka has been MC, T9, T12, MC, T5 and T5. Hard eight please!
Harrison Frazar: After beginning the season T5 and T2, Frazar has gone on to make the cut in six of 15 events. Talk about a long shot! Frazar, who did not play here last year or in 2010, had a pretty nice run from 2002-2009 finishing T17, fifth, MC, T18, T11, MC, T4 and T22. Hey, with TWO tournaments going on this week I'm allowed to have a little fun. Snake eyes!
John Merrick: Merrick has hit the top eight in three of four starts at Montreux. His other start was T25 last year. His solo second at FESJC is his only top anything of 2012 in 11 made cuts (20 events). Since that performance, Merrick has rung up T71, MC, T64 and T54 so calling him an outsider this week wouldn't be off-base. Hard ten.
Three to avoid based on history and form
Spencer Levin: He has hit the top 25 twice in his last 15 events (T4 Memorial, T15 THE PLAYERS). Sure, it's a home-game (close enough, relax) but in his last two trips to Montreux he's finished MC (2010) and T63 (2009).
Kevin Stadler: Born in Reno, Stadler has a decent track record here but his recent form will keep me away. He's MC in his last four outings on TOUR.
Bryce Molder: He was T10 last year at Montreux but he WD with a neck injury his last time out at the John Deere Classic. In his last nine events, his best finish is T24. No point to pull a muscle stretching for him this week.
Golf Channel Fantasy Challenge: WGC-Bridgestone (Glass's Picks)
Group 1: Tiger Woods
Group 2: Dustin Johnson
Group 3: Nick Watney
Group 4: Retief Goosen
Golf Channel Fantasy Challenge: Reno-Tahoe (Glass's Picks)
Group 1: Chris Kirk
Group 2: Josh Teater
Group 3: Gary Christian
Group 4: Patrick Reed
Ned said, "…
Ned Brown is a long-time contributor for Rotoworld Golf. He's had documented success in Yahoo!'s game for years. Even if you're confident in your selections for that game, give his insight a read. Now, Ned also provides us with his Golf Channel fantasy game selections as well!
Full Disclosure: I am NOT Ned! He's smarter and better looking!
Group A
Adam Scott- His recent record is great at Firestone, but the big question how his British Open collapse will carryover into this week. I'm betting that he will bounce back this week.
Zach Johnson-- There is only seven events left in this year's Yahoo! game, but I'm still going to try to save a start of Luke Donald. I prefer Donald, but Johnson has been red hot over the last three months and his history at Firestone is solid with two top 10 finishes in eight career starts.
Luke Donald, Matt Kuchar, Steve Stricker, Phil Mickelson
Group B
Tiger Woods-- I have only two starts left on Woods, but I'm going to use one of them this week because Woods is a seven-time winner here and he is on a roll that has seen him pick up three victories this season.
Bo Van Pelt-- Van Pelt for the most part has played well recently with a second place at the AT&T National and a T7 last week at the Canadian Open. He has played at the WGC-Bridgestone only twice, but one of those was a T3 finish in '10.
Hunter Mahan-- Mahan turned in a bit of a clunker last week at the Canadian Open, however before that he was playing well. The main reason he gets a nod this week is because of his strong history at Firestone of three top 10s in his last four years, which also includes a championship in '10.
Rory McIlroy-- You wouldn't think that picking the world's number three golfer is a bit of a risky pick, but it is. After playing unreal golf for over a year, McIlroy has been mired in a slump that has seen him miss the cut in four of his last seven starts. He gets the nod because of his top 10s in his last two starts at Firestone, but those looking for a safer play might want to start Dustin Johnson or Bubba Watson over McIlroy.
Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, Lee Westwood, Rickie Fowler, Ernie Els
Group C
Jason Dufner-- This is his first time at the WGC-Bridgestone, however he gets the pick due to his two championships, a second place and a T4 over his last six worldwide starts.
Graeme McDowell-- His record at Firestone is nothing to get excited about, but he has been playing some great golf in here and I'm going to go with his hot hand.
Martin Laird, Francesco Molinari, Louis Oosthuizen, Charl Schwartzel
Golf Channel Fantasy Challenge: WGC-Bridgestone (Ned's Picks)
Golf Channel Fantasy Challenge: Reno-Tahoe (Ned's Picks)
Group 1: Padraig Harrington
Group 3: Alex Cejka
"And another thing…"
The analysis doesn't end here. Rotoworld's Rob Bolton will be co-hosting a one-hour live chat with GolfChannel.com's Ryan Ballengee on Wednesday at NOON ET. They will be breaking down the field at the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational and the Reno-Tahoe Open and answering your questions. Simply return to the golf home page to join in on the chatter.


text:
The maximum allowed packet size.
At least, that's what I would guess. But there are other things, just look at the differences between IPv4 and IPv6. Of course, allow more than 2^32 IP addresses. Also, the way subnets are organized (/8,
IPv6 could easily run short of address space if we're careless with the bits. 128 bits is not much if they're parceled out in ways similar to IPv4.
Nonsense. IPv6 provides enough addresses that each person on earth could have their own IPv4 internet, which would only account for only about
It's not just the blocks for organizations, it's also the addresses reserved for special purposes. IPv4 also uses a few of what could be called "8/". That is, as I'm sure most everyone knows, many addresses ending with
All this discussion seem to prove is that people don't handle really big numbers well.
Allocations are, for a variety of reasons, assigned such that a subnet is almost always a
If there was one thing you could go back and change about TCP/IP -- something that is far too entrenched to change now -- what would it be?
I think Vint Cerf has already on multiple occasions mentioned the two things he would have liked to have done differently when designing IPv4 and TCPv4. The two things were the size of the addresses and mobility support. At the time there was discussion about the size of the addresses, some people wanted 32 bits, some people wanted 64 bits (and AFAIR some people wanted variable size). Vint was responsible for ending the discussion and deciding on 32 bits. He has publicly admitted that turned out to be an unfortunate decision.
If IPv4 had been designed with 64 bit addresses, chances are we would never have gotten IPv6 with the additional improvements it offers.
Vint Cerf has explained that leaving out mobility from IPv4 was due to it being considered appropriate for a lower level in the stack. And to some extent mobility can be handled by WIFI or cell phone networks. But it turned out that in some cases that isn't sufficient, and mobility at a higher level in the protocol stack would have been better.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the question, but I think that apart from the above two points, what answers you will get is mostly what got changed between IPv4 and IPv6 anyway. Maybe he would also have wanted something designed differently in TCP to begin with (such as knowledge of mobility). The upgrade from IPv4 to IPv6 didn't really change TCP, so TCP still does carry around some stuff that could have benefited from a redesign.
I seem to recall that Vint Cerf also at some point pointed out authenticity as a point that would have been a good idea to have in the protocol from the start. However at the time when IPv4 was designed public key cryptography was still too young to be properly understood, and any authenticity put into the protocol at the time would likely have turned out to be flawed.
Considering how much I can write from recollection of what Vint Cerf has said about that question in the past, maybe it is worthwhile having him repeat it again in his own words.
But there is another question that I would really like to see answered. It is about the IPv4 to IPv6 transition. If IPv4 had been designed differently to begin with, we might not have had to go through this transition. But you never have the necessary experience to design something right the first time, so that is not really a worthwhile discussion. And I don't think discussing the specific design of IPv4 and IPv6 is really that interesting either. The changes from IPv4 to IPv6 all seem for the better, and with the requirement for larger addresses they couldn't have been made much more compatible anyway, so some transition mechanism would be required.
My question is: What could have been done differently to ease the transition. In other words, if you could go back to the point where the design of the IPv6 protocol as it looks today was available, how would you have designed the transition plan? We all know that there was a transition plan, and nobody executed it fast enough to make it work out. How could the transition mechanisms have been done differently to ensure that the transitioning had happened fast enough to make IPv4 obsolete before the addresses ran out and we had to resort to hacky workarounds like NAT?
Mod parent up. In ten years I've never said that. Old dog, new trick. Also, was the mistake thinking we needed to do this too quickly?
But you never have the necessary experience to design something right the first time, so that is not really a worthwhile discussion.
Absolutely, there are many questions here unworthy of extended discussion. One doesn't to consult Donald Knuth to master quicksort. There's a huge literature on overdesign, discounting through net-present-value, adoption risk, and the diff
Can you talk about any time when you felt that the direction of Internet development was not going in the way that you hoped it would?
I'm wagering you've studied many communications protocols -- is there any protocols that you feel was terribly designed and implemented? Any modern day elegant/simple/innovative protocols that you've admired?
Extremely closely related to above question, Radia Perlman's Interconnections book, thumbs up or down, whats Vint Cerfs review?
Anything like Radia's book but a decade newer?
I'm curious what technologies you would like to see developed next, or what you think would be most important to develop next. In other words, what do you think researchers should work on now that would be most significant?
Oh, and thank you for changing my life!
He has recently between doing a lot of work on the interplanetary internet, you will find this is next big thing.
Or, better question, why wasn't IPv4 ever designed to be extensible? Are we ever going to learn that upper bounds are problematic if they are hard coded? Things that seem improbable now, are likely to become reality later, from 640K, to Fat16/32 to NTFS's 2 TB boot drive limit to 3.64TB Ram to
Yet, we always seem to route around those issues, often with difficulty, when they arise. But wouldn't it be easier to have the solution to running into up
Engineering for an unpredictable future just means you waste a huge amount of time and often it means your idea won't get off the ground at all. The internet wasn't ever expected to get as big as it is, because it was essentially a research network. Perhaps analogously, our phone numbering system isn't designed to allow direct-dialing nearby galaxies.
2^32 was - and is - a huge number. 4 billion addresses was unthinkably high, when there were only a few thousand machines who could even use one. It was more than sufficient until a majority of the world needed their own address, or several.
And it wasn't an arbitrary number, either. It's 32 bits, or 4 bytes. Hardware at the time couldn't easily handle addresses larger than that, so if we'd started out with 128-bit addresses, nobody would ever use it because it would be impossible to implement, or far too slow. Hardware has gotten faster/cheaper/better and now it's no longer an issue. So now we're doing it.
THAT is not my question. And unpredictable my ass, it was huge at the time, but should have been easily seen. Hell, we make fun of 640K ought to be enough for anyone mythos, so why not 32 bits ought to be enough for anyone.
And unlike the "floating point" comment below, this isn't a floating point problem either. It is "wow, 32 bits is huge, but how do we manage going to 64 bits later? And 128 Bits after that?" Having a rough idea would have given time to figure out the larger problems, and provide transitio
You're missing the point.
Perhaps analogously, our phone numbering system isn't designed to allow direct-dialing nearby galaxies
"It should have been easily seen" is a hindsight argument. Were you there? Did you see it coming? Can you provide a compelling case that they had any suspicion that everybody and their dog in the middle of Africa would need an IP? You couldn't even fit a computer on an average desktop, let alone your pocket.
You also neglect the added hardship of managing the extra bits. Keeping with the analogy, imagine a 25 digit phone number - it's 'easy to see' that we might need one some day, i
You also neglect the added hardship of managing the extra bits. Keeping with the analogy, imagine a 25 digit phone number - it's 'easy to see' that we might need one some day, if intergalactic telephony takes off and we merge our phone system with the phone systems of a few alien species. Should we have done this back in the 60s when direct-dial came around, because it'll be a hassle to change when it's a problem?
No hassle, the direct dial phone system is infinitely flexible.
From the UK
I can dial my local takeaway with "654433"
I can dial my a takeway on the other side of the UK with "01768 654433"
I can dial a takeaway in Libya by dialing "00 218 21 654 433"
If we take an unused country code (say 990) for
I can dial a takeaway on Mars, in the country of "New UK", by dialing "00 990 40 44 1768 654433"
I can dial a takeaway in Andromeda by dialing "00 990 9 939 483 343 342 459 1768 654433"
00 (international access code)
"It should have been easily seen" is a hindsight argument.
No it isn't. Everytime we have hard coded limits in computers, from single bit registers to two digit year codes to whatever it has bit us in the ass in broken systems.
That isn't to say that we can't make intelligent decisions along the way, and admit that we are far too short sighted far too often.
I believe Vint Cerf's answer to this is that 32-bit or 128-bit were both options, so he pressed ahead with 32-bit for the sake of the experiment with the intention of changing things for the "final" version of TCP/IP, but TCP/IP just slipped into usage in its experimental form and it became too late!
Or, better question, why wasn't IPv4 ever designed to be extensible? Are we ever going to learn that upper bounds are problematic if they are hard coded? Things that seem improbable now, are likely to become reality later, from 640K, to Fat16/32 to NTFS's 2 TB boot drive limit to 3.64TB Ram to
Awesome. "Mr Vint Cerf my question to you is, are you aware of any routing protocols implemented using floating point endpoint addressing, and if so how are rounding errors dealt with?"
Don't be ridiculous. Having variable-length addresses != floating-point.
A reasonable question. The problem is that if you leave unused bits in your protocol that can be used to flag extended capabilities, various digital geniuses will use them for all sorts of things. Then, years later, when you need to use them for a real purpose like flagging an extended address field, you will find routers and devices dropping like flies. You'll have analogous problems with any other expansion technique you try to use.
The Interplanetary Internet has been adapted for more general purposes as DTN (Delay-Tolerant Networks). There are plenty of applications on besides space, such as acoustic networks - you can basically send out bits with sonar pulses. Used a lot in e.g. underwater sensor networks in oceans (monitoring currents and whatnot). They send data to buoys on the surface as sound and the buoys then send it onwards with radio. However, since the power is provided by solar panels, there's only enough power for the tra
What impact did your college experience have on you? Do you feel it set the foundation for your future or not?
What is you opinion regarding Internet privacy?
Do you think anything should be changed?
Do you think governments and corporations world-wide will be able to kill the Internet as we know it?
Do you think governments and corporations world-wide will be able to kill the Internet as we know it?
This gets at DNS - TCP/IP was supposedly designed to withstand a nuclear attack. DNS can't even survive a court order.
Do things like P2PDNS and Namecoin have an inevitable future?
Could you see a protocol ever supplanting TCP/IP?
So you went to high school with Postel and Crocker according to wikipedia? Did you guys hang out all along or meet up decades later?
So you're on the board at ARIN. Anything public you want to say about how ARIN is handling ip address exhaustion other than the "company line"?
So are you keeping current with IPv6 and if so what is your opinion of IPv6 NAT? Good / evil / other?
My question: Do you feel the security concerns over collected information will trump the leveraging of information in future Internet technologies? Will there be a separate "opt-in" or "opt-out" web to cater to each preference?
Context: There have been many controversies recently regarding the collection of data and the privacy of individual information. As we move forward, I've heard a mixed set of messages regarding the direction we should expect to see.
Consumerism is indeed driving innovation and everything is going mobile these days (there's an app for that I think). One example I heard recently of the benefit of the convergence of information and mobility: a consumer can point their mobile phone at a shelf of groceries, get an active "overlay" of information regarding the products and determine which best suits the customer needs. On the flip side, sensors that track customer behavior are installed at the grocery shelf and based on detected behavior (like stopping for a moment to reminisce about Coco-Puffs even though you know they are bad for you) initiates a coupon for whatever the vendor may feel would provide enough motivation to purchase their product -- in the example a $1 off coupon to the mobile phone of a shopper.
Will this become reality in the future? I think there are benefits to be had, but also am fiercely protective of my personal information and preferences.
It seems that it is getting more and more difficult to successfully run your own SMTP server. See, for example, this post [slashdot.org] responding to the idea that a user was going to move off gmail to their own server. Are there any prospects for meaningful SMTP reform that would lower the barrier to entry for legitimate emailers?
DNS has been often criticized as a centralized single point of failure / censorship. Have you been following the development of namecoin and P2P DNS? Are these systems viable in your estimation? How would you improve them or encourage their adoption?
The US Customs department recently created headlines in seizing domains. These seizures appear to be extra-legal (not founded in law), but ICANN has gone along with them. Are those fair statements? Should ICANN's trustworthiness be suspect as a result of this process?
Thanks and cheers.
It seems that it is getting more and more difficult to successfully run your own SMTP server. See, for example, this post [slashdot.org] responding to the idea that a user was going to move off gmail to their own server.
Note that due to spammers running an outbound is indeed a freaking nightmare. Inbound is a breeze. Just smarthost your outgoing thru your local ISP's relay. Its not that hard.
I like running my own inbound, because I have fetchmail all tuned up to funnel multiple pop/imap/whatever accounts into my "real" account. Also they all get the same spamassassin treatment, etc.
There are a few problems with using your ISP as your outbound relay: You are now dependent on their SMTP and DNS service. Both for performance and availability. Part of the appeal of running your own SMTP server is that you can operate independently.
For inbound, port 25 has to be unblocked, which eliminates many residential connections. This is less of a big issue, but not ideal.
Two extremely closely related questions:
1) Conversion from 16 bit to 32 bit BGP AS numbers half a decade ago or so: Went smoother or rougher than you personally expected? Or just right?
2) How does the answer to #1 above modify your view of whats likely to happen with the ipv4 to ipv6 transition?
Should IPv6 have been designed to be interoperable with IPv4?
Isn't it already?
Hardware accelerated ipv4 routing/switching was out there, I donno, at least a decade ago, or more. Your expectations on the rollout of hardware accelerated ipv6 switching?
Sorry if this brings back traumatic memories but was "The Architect" in "The Matrix Reloaded" (the second Matrix film) supposed to be you? Did the producers get your permission? Did you like your portrayal?
(Or maybe that was "The Colonel" from KFC after he went on a diet.)
The key advantage of TCP/IP is how it handles for Loss packets, going across an unknown network and far more failure prone hardware. However today as the internet is now running on much more reliable hardware and the path goes threw some well maintained backbone. Would you have come with TCP/IP today if you had access to modern technology/infrastructure?
Or do you think you would have a different design all together?
Dr. Cerf,
I had the pleasure of working with you years ago at MCI. I recall that at the time, you spoke frequently of the need for an "Interplanetary TCP/IP" standard leading to development of an "Interplanetary Internet." With the recent budget cuts for U.S. manned missions, do you see this effort becoming more or less imperative? On a related topic, do you believe humanity will need to rely more on autonomous robots for space exploration? Or will Americans have Chinese and Russian space-chauffeurs for th
In the future, hopefully in the not too distant future, we will begin to utilise the moon.
Do you think that it will be possible to extend the terrestrial internet to encompass the moon? Would you envisage if that happened that it would be using an extended version of TCP? Or do you think that there would have to be two separate internets one on each body?
Can you elaborate how TCP "slow start" got its name.
Since the congestion window is exponentially opened, it's not exactly slow.
I mean, congestion avoidance, with additive increase, that's what I would call slow in comparison.
It is already available.
As an example you can do opportunistic encryption (IPSEC) with DNSSEC.
The Internet has provided an excellent medium for freely expressing different viewpoints. But governments and businesses are increasingly threatened by such freedoms, and doing a lot to suppress them. How do you see this playing out, and how can we ensure that we keep such freedoms?
Do you think there should be a
Currently many are coming up with their own adhoc TLDs for local use. In my opinion this is suboptimal. Having a standard official TLD would allow more interesting things to "organically grow" on it.
See also: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yeoh-tldhere-01 [ietf.org]
Could IPv6 have been designed to be more like IPv4 and thus easier to adopt? In retrospect, would it have been better to restrict design changes to the minimum required to support larger addresses?
Hello Vint
I've enjoyed since com-priv days, the rise of the Internet - Thank you. 20/20 hindsight shows the Internet grew without statutory jurispudence. Is that statutory blackhole in which the Internet now lives responsible for holding back growth and development of Internet economies, digital cash and cyber laws that are truly global w/o jurisdictional boundary?
If a global medium is not able to support global economy, however does the world escape market constraints bounded by juridictional rules, regs, statutes and accords to enable freedom of exchange, trade, commerce and rising World-wide economic tide?
Few human's can attributed to be both communications protocol inventers and well.. dapper.
Can you speak to the importance of being well dressed, groomed, etc. when interacting with non-technical people? Do you attribute your stylistic dress to your overall success in anyway?
Moreover, every C standard library that I have ever tried is able to resolve this bigger number to the correct address. If I ping a 10 digit number in that address range, the C standard library will figure it out. It is my position that this is a feature and not a bug.
It seems that the OSX Firefox Guys [mozilla.org] don't agree with me. Admittedly they do have an RFC on the subject, but their browser breaks a known behavior that every other TCP/IP client program on the planet exhibits, including other operating system versions of Firefox!
Would you kindly bludgeon one of us into submission? I don't really care which side of the argument you come down on, but one of us has to be able to say "Because Vint Cerf said so!"
Oh, and while I've got you, I'm sick of writing stateless http applications. May I have your permission to go back to writing plain old socket servers on other ports, providing data based on whatever query format I feel like implementing? It kind of looks like REST, I suppose, except that I don't have to load 14 layers of frameworks to get to that point.
TCP port 443 is the new waist of the Internet, and it doesn't look like that's going to change with the transition to IPv6 either. Should we just forget about concurrent multi-path and multi-streaming at the transport layer and do it all at the application layer? Or do you think there might still be room for fixing these problems at the transport layer?
You're currently on the Governing Board [nist.gov] of the NIST Smart Grid Interoperability Panel. What is the state of standards development, and how big an impact does it have to move national infrastructure communications into the public IP arena so far as our ability to strengthen and expand our infrastructure? Conversely, how big are the threats in this new world?
I take it that the "route around failures" and other original design features of TCP/IP and the Internet as a whole relied upon trusting others always having good intentions and cooperating. Those designs were necessary at the time and the reason the internet exists today.
Nowadays distrust, firewalls, and coding defensively is the norm (or it should be). In that light, the internet's design seems creaky and vulnerable.
Do you have any thoughts or feelings on how software has changed and seemingly become so
One of the secrets of the internet's massive success is the lack of controls over it; if there had been strict security and processes in place it would likely not have come about. One of the downsides is that all our security measures are tacked-on, there is no built-in security to the protocols used on the internet and as a result security is a massive problem. How do we go from the wild west to having at least a reasonable level of trusted computing?
To write good code is a worthy challenge, and a source of civilized delight. -- stolen and paraphrased from William Safire


text:
This post is part of a blog series which focuses on translating compatibility views in SQL Server to their respective dynamic management objects. You can find a list of all of the deprecated views in the introduction post.
The compatibility view sysdevices returns one row for every named backup device. Backup devices can be either disk or tape files. In the olden days, the devices also included database files; which are now returned through sys.master_files. Devices can be added to the list through sp_adddumpdevice; which can then be used as a named location during backups.
The replacement for sysdevices is the catalog view sys.backup_devices. As mentioned, only backup devices are now stored in the compatibility view sysdevices. For the catalog view, the only information returned and possible now is backup devices that are registered through sp_adddumpdevice. The current available device types are disk, tape, and virtual devices.
Status Columns
In a continuing trend with many other compatibility views, the view sysdepends does have a couple columns that need to be decoded when it is queried. These columns are status and cntrltype. Fortunately, both of the columns are documented in Books Online.
Looking at the first column to decode in sysdepends, which is status, there are two general pieces of information that are retrieved. First the value indicates the type of device that is being referenced. Second, the column contains a value to identify whether the device is read only. The bitwise values stored in the column are the following:
- 0×1: Default disk
- 0×2: Physical disk
- 0×4: Logical disk
- 0×8: Skip header
- 0×10: Backup file
- 0×12: Serial writes
- 0×1000: read only
The second column is cntrltype. This column defines the type of controller that is used to interface with the device. The possible values for this column are:
- 0: Non-CD-ROM database file
- 2: Disk backup file
- 3 – 4: Diskette backup file
- 5: Tape backup file
- 6: Named-pipe file
Query Via sysdepends
As with many of the compatibility views, queries against sysdepends are fairly simple to created. For the most part, the query just returns the values in the compatibility view with the addition of three expressions to break down the status and cntrltype columns. There are three columns that you won't, or should not, be using since they only report the value 0 in SQL Server 2012 database. These are size, low, and high. Low and high are included for backwards compatibility. While not documented as such, size appears to fit this description as well since it references the older 2KB style database pages.
Listing 1 – Query for sys.sysdevices SELECT d.name ,d.status ,d.cntrltype ,d.phyname ,CASE WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x1) = 1 THEN 'Default disk' WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x2) = 2 THEN 'Physical disk' WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x4) = 4 THEN 'Logical disk' WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x8) = 8 THEN 'Skip header' WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x10) = 16 THEN 'Backup file' WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x12) = 32 THEN 'Serial writes' END AS device_type ,CASE WHEN CONVERT(INT,d.status & 0x1000) = 4096 THEN 1 ELSE 0 END AS is_read_only ,CASE WHEN cntrltype = 0 THEN 'Non-CD-ROM database file' WHEN cntrltype = 2 THEN 'Disk backup file' WHEN cntrltype IN (3,4) THEN 'Diskette backup file' WHEN cntrltype = 5 THEN 'Tape backup file' WHEN cntrltype = 6 THEN 'Named-pipe file' END AS controller_type FROM sysdevices d
Query via sys.backup_devices
Mapping sys.backup_devices to sysdevices is a relatively simple task. The replacement catalog view only contains four columns. Two of these columns represent the same information, type and type_desc; which map to the cntrltype column in sysdevices. The information on read only and device type, does not apply to sys.backup_devices since it is technically the backup subset of data from the previous view. This information being a subset is not an issue, though, since the other types of information are no longer relevant within SQL Server.
Listing 2 – Query for sys.backup_devices SELECT name ,physical_name ,type ,type_desc FROM sys.backup_devices
In this post, we discussed the use of sys.backup_devices instead of sysdevices. Using sys.backup_devices provides all of the information needed from sysdevices that is still a part of SQL Server. Though, that functionality is not frequently used. After reading all of this, do you see any reason to continue using sysdevices? Is there anything missing from this post that people continuing to use the compatibility view should know?
Follow me on Twitter at StrateSQL.
Original article: Lost in Translation – Deprecated System Tables – sysdevices
©2012 Strate SQL. All Rights Reserved.
Related posts:


text:
Up on the roof: Sweat the small stuff yourself
A New Look roofing contractors
Q: How do I know when my shingle roof needs work? Can I safely perform my own minor repairs?
A: Roof shingles are often damaged by heat, especially if your home has poor roof ventilation. Your shingles need to be replaced if they start curling up, making the edge of your roof look thicker than normal. Another sign is finding fragments of shingles that have accumulated in your gutters. You may also find that water is slowly saturating through your roof, creating stains on your ceilings.
If you find that you do need to work on your roof, the most important thing to keep in mind is safety. It's best to work in very warm conditions so the glue is pliable, but many people have been injured because the asphalt gets extremely hot, and debris can get under your body and cause you to slip.
It's difficult to replace just a few shingles if the roof is older and the shingles are compressed tightly together. In such a situation, you may have to have the roof entirely replaced by a professional. If the roof's relatively new, however, you may be able to do a partial replacement with a flat bar and utility knife.
All roof shingles will come with specific instructions, but here are the basics steps: start on the shingle above the one you want to replace in order to expose the nails of the shingle you want to replace. The entire shingle should be loose before pulling out the nails. Since the shingles overlap, you'll have to take the nails out of the shingle just above the damaged one.
Pull the damaged shingle out with a flat bar– but go slowly so you don't take off part of the upper one– and slide the new one in, aligning it with the surrounding ones. Nail it on according to the pattern provided, and apply a bead of roofing adhesive under the tabs of the new shingle.
While you're up there, don't forget to clean out your gutters. It's best to do this during a dry spell to avoid a muddy mess. You can clean them by hand or with an extension you can buy that slides through the gutters so you can get more than an armful at a time. Pay special attention to the elbows and downspouts, which are most likely to clog. You may need to take them apart in order to thoroughly clean them.
Normally, you should check your gutters about twice a year, once during the fall and spring, but maybe more if you live in an area with a lot of trees. You'll know your gutters need attention if they can't contain rainwater during a shower.
It's a good idea to wear gloves while doing any kind of roof or gutter work. It's easy to fall if you jerk away because something sharp cuts your hand. Consider buying an attachment that secures the ladder to the roof.


text:
Nice rumor, i'll bite on Turner, but not the Sanchez for Rivers end of it.
Nice rumor, i'll bite on Turner, but not the Sanchez for Rivers end of it.
Turner yes Phillips no! He' s arrogant & complainer NY will eat him alive!
LOL, if there is a QB that is on par with the ineptness of Mark Sanchez then that would be Philip Rivers. The man is virtually equal to Sanchez in the turnover department and has to be THE MOST OVERRATED QB in the NFL.
So here it is, it makes perfect sense for the dysfunctional NY Jet team to replace the #1 turnover QB with the #2 turnover QB. I guess you can call it making strides, LOL.
Bottom line; Philip Rivers sucks.
Why would anyone want the dynamic do-nots from SD to bring their suck to NY?
What kind of half-baked solution is that?
Do any of you watch football besides Madden?
Norv may be an upgrade over Sparano but that's not saying much.
I like this scenario but how are the Jets hiring coaches and trading players without the new GM? I think it's just a rumor that I would like the new GM pull it off.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
rivers is a bum and would crumble in New York media. with that being said, he's about 250 times better than Sanchez.
I have been saying for a while that it's too much of a gamble to go after Rivers but Sanchez is looking so awful that I'd be open to almost anyone new to the organization. Not to mention I hate his BFF's Dusty and Bray-Bray.
Sanchez stinks no matter where he plays


text: add to multibuy What is a Multi-Buy? Free delivery on this item Please call our sales team for delivery dates Trustpilot This attractive 90cm wide range style cooker from Rangemaster features electric ovens and a five zone induction hob. Finished in Royal Pearl it will create a stunning focal point in your kitchen. The energy efficiency rating on this model is A/A and it comes with a two year parts and labour warranty as standard. 2 yearwarranty A/A Warranty Options Get added peace of mind with an extended warranty. Select your extended warranty at checkout. Find out more... 5 years inclusive warranty - £139.00 Features Colour: ROYAL PEARLEnergy rating: A/A Royal Pearl finishBrass effect trimMain multifunction electric fan ovenTall electric fan ovenSmooth action glide-out dual circuit electric grill Induction hob with 5 heat zones Multifunction electric fan oven:Rapid response heat setting for 30% faster heat upDefrost, fanned grilling, fan assisted cooking, conventional cooking, browning element and base heat. Programmable clock & minute minder Handy rackDoors: main oven porthole, tall oven solid Oven light x 1 Cook and clean oven linings Oven capacity (main oven) 73 litres Oven capacity (tall oven) 67 litres Width 900mm Depth 600mm Height (up to hotplate) 898 - 925mm [variable]Maximum electrical load @ 230V 18.2kW


text:
That said, we can only talk about what we've seen so far, which is a guy who often disappeared for long stretches and wasn't always fundamentally sound. He might develop into the guy we hope he will be...he might not.
With Bey you have a guy who at least produced over a full season and shouldn't be expensive. If he comes in and Hill beats him out, then good for us.


text:
the pros and cons is an idiom, meaning the arguments for and against something; the advantages and disadvantages of something
Your idea is interesting but let's look carefully at its pros and cons before we take any decisions.
ORIGIN of this idiom:
This expression comes from the Latin words pro, meaning for; and contra, meaning against.
Something funny with the idiom pros and cons:
English Teacher


text:
Issue Type: Sub-task Created: 2010-01-03T04:59:42.000+0000 Last Updated: 2013-01-22T12:08:22.000+0000 Status: Resolved Fix version(s): - 1.12.2 (25/Feb/13)
Reporter: Brad Gushurst (bradgman) Assignee: Frank Brückner (frosch) Tags: - Zend_Form
Related issues: - ZF-8764
Attachments: - ZF-8694.patch
There exists an issue with Zend_Form translating labels which becomes apparent when Zend_Translate logging is enabled.
When a form is rendered the form loops through the decorators running their render method. The following code is called as a result of rendering the label.
Zend_Form_Decorator_Label Line #253

$label = $element->getLabel();
$label = trim($label);
if (empty($label)) {
return '';
if (null !== ($translator = $element->getTranslator())) {
$label = $translator->translate($label);
The above code retrieves the label from the element object and the runs validation methods and then proceeds to translate the message. Below is the code for the $element->getLabel() method.
Zend_Form_Element Line #606

public function getLabel()
$translator = $this->getTranslator();
if (null !== $translator) {
return $translator->translate($this->_label);
return $this->_label;
As you can see this method ALSO translates the text before sending it back to the decorator. This means the Element object is returning translated text back to the decorator which then is attempting to translate already translated text. This causes the Zend_Translate class to log a notice in its log file notifying the user it is missing a translation.
The fix is an obvious one, simply removing the duplicate code from the Zend_Form_Decorator_Label dealing with translation will solve the problem as their corresponding elements should already be translating the content for them.
Please note this also is affecting the Submit button and I have not been able to trace which decorator is causing that problem, although I assume the problem is the same. You will probably want to check through all of the decorators to check if any others are doing the same.
Posted by purple ankh (purpleankh) on 2010-01-20T05:06:40.000+0000
With reference to the final note about the Submit button, this has been reported as ZF-8764.
Posted by Ivan Krechetov (ikr) on 2010-02-17T07:08:44.000+0000
For us this issue is very important, as far as we have an interactive translation mode. It allows to change the site texts right where you see them in the graphical user interface. To do this we have to append stuff to translated strings on the runtime. Like this:

array(dirname(__FILE__) . '/library', get_include_path())
require_once 'Zend/Loader/Autoloader.php';
class TrickyAdapter extends Zend_Translate_Adapter_Array {
public function translate($messageId, $locale = null) {
return parent::translate($messageId, $locale) . '[XY]';
new Zend_Translate('TrickyAdapter', array('en' => array()))
function simple_form() {
return new Zend_Form(
'method' => 'post',
'elements' => array(
'title' => array(
'type' => 'text',
'options' => array(
'label' => 'Bug title',
'submit' => array(
'type' => 'button',
'options' => array(
'label' => 'Send',
'type' => 'submit',
echo "\n" . simple_form()->render(new Zend_View()) . "\n\n";
Under ZF 1.9.7 the code above outputs:

Bug title[XY]
While under ZF 1.10.0 and 1.10.1 it's:

Bug title[XY][XY]
Posted by Joakim Nygård (jokke) on 2010-08-09T06:51:21.000+0000
The question is whether the translation should be restricted to the element's or the Label decorator's getLabel() method. I think it makes the most sense to place the translation in the decorator - as close to the user as possible, but I am not sure if this change will break anything depending on the element doing the translation.
Posted by Tomáš Fejfar (email@example.com) on 2010-12-27T04:05:18.000+0000
The only legitimate place to translate the value is where the value is received - i.e. in element's getLabel() method. Decorator's purpose is to receive some value and wrap it around the current content. Not tu modify it in any way.
Posted by Nicolae Dima (nicolaedima) on 2011-02-06T07:12:36.000+0000
This can be fixed fast, by commenting these lines
Posted by Holger Schletz (hschletz) on 2011-05-28T08:27:05.000+0000
OK, it's bug hunt days again. Time to bump this issue. Any chance to see it fixed this time? It's been around for ages, as well as the proposed simple fix, like in the previous comment.
BTW, the issue with Zend_Form_Element_Submit has been silently fixed in the meantime, but it still occurs with Zend_Form_Decorator_Label.
Posted by Kim Blomqvist (kblomqvist) on 2011-05-28T08:50:25.000+0000
Patch attached. Holger - where did you check that the issue with Zend_Form_Element_Submit has been already fixed. It wasn't in my trunk.
Posted by Holger Schletz (hschletz) on 2011-05-28T09:36:19.000+0000
It has not been fixed in Zend_Form_Element_Submit itself - in fact, removing the translate() call there would result in an untranslated label. Something else in the code path has changed so that now only Zend_Form_Decorator_Label is still affected.
I don't know where this change has been made and whether the new behavior is intentional or just happened to stop the bug from occurring. The facts are: with the current implementation, the label gets translated once for Zend_Form_Element_Submit::getLabel() (correct) and twice for Zend_Form_Decorator_Label::getLabel() (incorrect). This might need more investigation, but removing the translate() call from Zend_Form_Decorator_Label::getLabel() would at least be an interim solution that actually works. It could easily be reverted if it turns out to be the wrong place for the fix.
The fix has been proposed and known to work flawlessly by several users for a long time, so I think it would be safe to provide it as a working solution. There are already discussions about restructuring and where translations should actually be done, but that's more of a long term goal.
Posted by Holger Schletz (hschletz) on 2011-09-12T10:34:19.000+0000
Somewhere between 1.11.7 and 1.11.10, a change to Zend_Form_Element_Submit was introduced. The label no longer gets translated if the patch to Zend_Form_Decorator_Label is applied. If that patch is reverted, the problem with the double-translated labels shows up again.
An updated patch that works for 1.11.10 is available at http://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/checkout/…
Posted by Sebastian (basty) on 2011-10-11T19:09:50.000+0000
The updated patch of Holger works also fine for me in v1.11.11. Thanks!
Posted by Michael Boke (email@example.com) on 2011-11-29T15:56:52.000+0000
Got an entire day wasted figuring out why my label is translated into the wrong text.
For example we got a tag english "or" Translated to dutch to "of" Got translated again english "of" to "van"
Please fix this with the remove translate from the decorator label. That seems to be the right solution.
btw the latest svn revision 24561 still has this problem
Posted by Rafael Tavares Amorim (dextervip) on 2012-01-17T02:52:27.000+0000
Removing the translate code block from: Form/Decorator/Label.php Form/Decorator/Description.php Form/Element/Submit.php
Since translate happen in Form/Element.php, It works fine in my application and solve this issue in v1.11.11 i believe
Posted by Rafael Tavares Amorim (dextervip) on 2012-08-07T05:30:19.000+0000
No updates??
Posted by Tobias Petry (ice-breaker) on 2012-09-04T16:06:54.000+0000
Any updates? The bug is still existent in 1.12.0
Posted by Frank Brückner (frosch) on 2012-09-04T16:17:38.000+0000
@[~ice-breaker] The patch needs a review by the cr-team.
Posted by François-Régis (frej) on 2012-11-15T08:24:25.000+0000
While it's still under review, I would propose the following fix for the Zend_Form_Element Class.
public function getLabel()
// if there is a label to translate,
// then we check for a valid translator to perform the translation
if ( $this->_label !== null
&& null !== ($translator = $this->getTranslator())) {
return $this->getView()->translate(
return $this->_label;
Regards, Frej.
Posted by Frank Brückner (frosch) on 2013-01-22T12:02:36.000+0000
Posted by Frank Brückner (frosch) on 2013-01-22T12:07:52.000+0000
Fixed on trunk (25242) and release-1.12 (25243)
(Unit test for Description decorator included.)
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