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Aussies are not into the big giant fruit bombs per se..but their view on what is big and what isn't is definitely skewed. Trying to blame RP about the problems of the Australian wine industry is a cop out. He didn't force them to think, if big is good, bigger is better. He didn't make them move away from wines they loved, the money did. How odd is it that there is a significant winemaker (Mollydooker) that most Australians haven't even heard of?
And there is definitely a change in a lot of the wineries in Australia..a lot more emphasis on terroir, balance and making wines with their own personality rather than what they feel will be best suited to the market.
Where should real wine lovers (from other countries) be looking in Australia? Victoria, Margaret River and the Hunter Valley in general. Dry Rieslings from Clare and Eden Valley, Semillon from the Hunter would fill a gap in the market that definitely exists.
In my opinion, Australia needs to stop charging excess taxes on wine sales that protects their smaller producers..they need to introduce REAL competition into their market to force winemakers to compete at a proper level. Some places will go out of business and some will not. I don't see how they can expect their wine to compete overseas when they end up protecting their industry locally.
Don't have any Aussies left after numerous disappointments, namely an evening with family with 6 bottles of supposedly top tier Barossa and McLaren Shiraz. Everyone was drinking Martinis before too long.
Best Aussie I have had was a '93 Henschke Cyril Cab in 2003.
Haven't purchased a 'newer' Aussie wine in 6-8 years, however, there is still a decent supply of mid-late 90's wine bargains on the secondary market. I'm waiting on a shipment of eight '99 Henry's Drive Reserve Shiraz, and I'm still holding a couple of older Greenock Creek shiraz's and a Shirvington CS from 2003. IMHO these wines are nowhere near the over-the-top that Miller and Parker cut their sweet teeth on. I was a big fan of the Leasingham Classic Clare CS and Shiraz bottlings; sad to see that winery cease operations.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. "
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
I think they just stopped exporting wine awhile back...then the brand got stopped in 2009...and the brand got bought recent but not sure what happened w/ the vineyards they were using...This message has been edited. Last edited by: Polymer,
Aussie - It was really great to have you post.
Paul Romero (tlily)- Owner, Winemaker, Parking Attendant
Stefania Wine
+1. Good to see Australians posting on this board again if only rarely. A bit OT but where in heck has TORB gone? I know he had health issues but his website has been inactive for years and now it says CLOSED and only retained for "historical reference" whatever that means.
Hunter Valley Semillon is always picked early before the rains. That's why it's so high in acidity and is only around 12.5% It's one of the world's most under rated white wines with huge aging potential.
There are terrific and committed wineries in Australia making great white and red wines, trouble is that we all see too many of the huge conglomerates pushing discounted wines while lack terroir or individuality.
If you take Grosset, Mount Horrocks, Balnaves, Charles Melton, Katnook, John Duval, Jim Barry, Cape Mentelle and Stella Bella to name just a few you can find great red and white wines which won't break the bank at $20-$45.
WSET Adv
I actually drank 2 Australian wines in Oct == a 2006 Tatiarra Shiraz Cambrian and a 2003 Yarra Yering Dry Red No. 1. Neither was over the top and both were enjoyable and good QPRs. I'm actually going to be drinking one next Friday too -- a 1999 Yalumba Octavius. I hope it isn't as oaky as many say. That being said, I don't have much in my cellar -- 1 more each of the first 2 wines mentioned, 2 bottles of Yalumba Signature (I think 2003s), and 2 1999 Moss Wood Cabernets are all I can think of off the top of my head. After having a couple of over-the-top Aussies, I became very selective in what I buy from that area and really haven't been disappointed much.
My experience with Spanish wines in some ways mimics my experience with Australian wines in that when I first got into wines I really enjoyed Rioja made in the traditional style (just as I enjoyed more restrained Shiraz from Australia). I then went through a stretch of modern style Rioja and other relatively cheap Spanish wines ($10-$25) that were being touted in the press and on the boards that I found very disappointing. I don't doubt there are some (many?) outstanding wines from Spain being made today and that I'm missing out, but I just don't buy many -- choosing to concentrate more on countries/regions where I have found less disappointments. I will say I've been looking at exploring Spain more, but as of right now I think the only ones I own right now are a couple of bottles of Pintia.
"Appreciating old wine is like making love to a very old lady. It is possible. It can even be enjoyable. But it requires a bit of imagination."
Andre Tchelistcheff
Cheers Paul.
Not sure how TORB is fairing. Last I heard years ago he was quite unwell, and has been MIA on the internet since. I fear the worst. He was an excellent source of info and had a wonderfully dry sense of humour - dry, like the Australian wine I drink!
Wine tastes better upside down.
Well glad to hear that Hunter Valley Semillion with a remainder of acidity still exists, but i did not find any of those during my trip to Australia, once a huge fan of Hunter Semillon, i was very disappointed by the wines i tasted during the trip. Something bad did happen to the region, over the last 20 years, it's so obvious when you're comparing the wines then and now.
I was impressed by Tasmania though, allthough a problematic region for producing wine (nature conservation).
There surely exist some heroic producers in the older regions (Coldstream Hills) that produce some fantastically blanced wines, such as if climate change did not exist, but the mass production clearly suffers from climate change.
There is nothing in our intelligence that has not passed by the senses. (Aristoteles)
Nothing happened to the Hunter in the last 20 years. I'm not sure which Semillons you tried last time but they all have a ton of acid...and they age fantastically well..still.
When was the last time you were there and what did you try?
While I haven't been buying much Aussie wine recently, I had 3 on Friday night which were outstanding. 10 year old bottles of Dead Arm and Elderton Command. The 2003 Penfolds RWT was no slouch either, but it has become very pricey in that past few vintages.
Another vote for Rieslings and Margaret River. The Leeuwin Estate Art Series Chardonnay from the latter is an excellent wine.
I've tried some chards from the Mornington Peninsula region which I really enjoyed.
That was in 2008, didn't take extensive notes about which wines tried, the most prominent was from Brokenwood during diner. Wineries visited included Iron Gate and Audrey Wilkinson. Whatever Semillon i tried, it was like 14% vol+ , low acidity and very monolithic. The ones from the wineries above were quite ok, but certainly not the most interesting wines tasted at the wineries. Maybe my expectations were too high. When visting Hunter Valley, i expected Semillon to be the outstanding product, which it wasn't.This message has been edited. Last edited by: MoselleLuxemburg,
There is nothing in our intelligence that has not passed by the senses. (Aristoteles)
Add me to disagree that Hunter Valley is dead. I was over there back in March for 2 weeks and thoroughly enjoyed a variety of wines. That being said, it's been a tough couple of years of weather in the Hunter Valley region and crops have certainly suffered. While there were a long list of enjoyable wineries, a few that I particularly enjoyed inclue Audrey Wilkinson, Petersons, and for a bit of variety Piggs Peake.
I've been enjoying the 2007 Torbreck The Steading GSM and at $30 is a nice wine.
First i never said that Hunter Valley was dead, but Hunter Valley Semillon. I enjoyed their reds and some other of their whites. Eg. at Audrey Wilkinson i liked their Chardonnays, Verdelho and Traminer more than the Semillon. Second it seems i'll have to go back to retry those Semillons, great reason travelling to Australia again.This message has been edited. Last edited by: MoselleLuxemburg,
There is nothing in our intelligence that has not passed by the senses. (Aristoteles)
14% Hunter Semillon? I don't know if I've seen that before...but in any case..Next time you're there..
For Semillon go to:
Meerea Park (Alexander Munro, Terracotta)
Tyrrells (Vat 1, HVD, Belford, Johnno's Stevens)
There are of course many others but those are pretty safe. If Thomas has a cellar door you can go there or Small Winemaker's Centre...You can go to McWilliams for the Lovedale Semillon but not sure it is worth going over that way just for that..
I've tried more than a fair amount of Hunter Semillon the last 5 years and I don't recall any with 14% and low acidity...although you might've found that odd one that was. In any case, Hunter Semillon definitely isn't dead..but in terms of globally, not sure it was ever alive to begin with. It is definitely a wine geeks wine..it is just too hard to find and needs to be aged...
The 14%vol was more an impression of monolithic wines, i did not take notes of the real alc content.
Thanks for the recommendations.
There is nothing in our intelligence that has not passed by the senses. (Aristoteles)
since this originally went up I've actually followed through and bought a few Aussie wine under screw cap that I've found.
Paul Romero (tlily)- Owner, Winemaker, Parking Attendant
Stefania Wine
What Steve said. Aussie wine is like any other wine - some like it, some not, it's all good. I don't see things being so different now that previously - lots of good juice and lots that is not OTT. Let your shirazes age 5-10 years and they will be fine.
Also happy to see Aussie back - met him years ago and he is good people. If and when I ever get to Oz, we will offline!
Go Bruins!!
Go Tigers!!
Go Pistons!!
Go Lions!!
1) Mollydooker is not a significant winemaker in Australia. It is an export wine and it is exactly what is wrong with Australian wine.
2) The locals did not necessarily move away from the wines they loved. Australia was infested with American importers, making garbage wines, that Robert Parker loved. You can blame Parker for that, if you would like. I am not saying it is his fault that he gave high scores to crap wines. The worst part is that he still defends his scores of those crap wines.
3) Many really great producers are no longer imported into the US because of these issues. Rockford and Grosset come to mind.
Daniel Posner
"But is anyone speaking for consumers' best interest? One liquor store owner, Daniel Posner of Grapes the Wine Company..."-Wine Spectator
"One of the most important retailers in the country"-Wall Street Journal, November 2010
"(T)hese are the kind of posts we've come to expect from NY Retailer."-Board-O
"You're not here to help us. You're here to help yourself..."-Board-O
"You a liar and your motives here are clear to all. Let me repeat- you are a liar."-Board-O
"Thus spake the emperor of self-promotion. Could you possibly be any more transparent?"-Board-O
"You get an A in consistency and an A+ in self-aggrandizing promotion that goes over no one's head."-Board-O
Yeap...Places like Mollydooker are really relatively unknown in Australia..
To be fair though, a lot of Aussies DO love big wines. They consider them very serious wines. But to be just as far, a lot of Americans (and others) love big wines as well...Most non wine geeks love fruit bombs..
Greenock Creek also has a fairly big following within Australia....
But that said..There is a lot of wine in Australia that would appeal to a lot of people and are nothing like the Parkerized big shiraz....It is just unfortunate people don't see more of it.
I don't know exactly what happened to Rockford or Grosset, but it is really unfortunate they don't get sent to the US...I'm not sure Rockford's decision has anything to do w/ the market in the US...but more of, there is more than enough demand for it in Australia and they could really care less if anyone else globally drinks it.
I had a 2004 Two Hands Bella's Garden last week and it hit the spot for what I was looking for, big and nuanced. It was a great bottle of wine.
I'm not a fan of over the top, monolithic fruit bombs but when you're in the mood for big, powerful, velvety shiraz with layers and layers of flavour and nuance it's hard to beat Australia. Just don't give me a mollydocker. Yuck.
Agree. Met with otw and friends Friday for a tasting followed by food and wine at Crush. otw brought a couple of Aussie Shiraz (Victoria and Barossa). We also had a couple of Amarone (1990 and mid 90s if I recall correctly). All showed well but I enjoyed the Barossa Shiraz most, followed by the Victoria Shiraz.
1998 Balthazar Ress Spatlese went well with oysters.
How bad are sales of Australian wine? This bad:
Treasury Wine Estates blames low US sales, bulldozes $145 Million in wine
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text:
Olivia Scott Wins NCAA Title in 100-Yard Butterfly
Wins by .04 seconds, closest finish in NCAA Championship history
Auburn Women's Swimmers Set for NCAA Championships
Championship meet runs Thursday-Saturday in Indianapolis
Auburn To Send 14 Swimmers to NCAA Women's Championships
Meet runs March 21-23 in Indianapolis
SEC Championships: Day 3 Prelims
Tigers with five championship finalists tonight
Tigers Earn Two Medals on Third Day of SEC Championships
Scott gets silver in 100 fly; Santeiu bronze in 3-meter diving
3-22-13 Women's NCAA Swimming and Diving Championship, Day 2
3-22-13 Women's NCAA Swimming and Diving Championship, Day 2
2-21-13 SEC Swimming and Diving Championships, Prelim Thurs
2-21-13 SEC Swimming and Diving Championships, Prelim Thurs
3-17-12 NCAA Championships day 3 Prelims
3-17-12 NCAA Championships day 3 Prelims
2012-13 Team Captain
2012 U.S. Olympic Trials Qualifier
2012 All-American
SEC Academic Honor Roll
CSCAA Scholar All-American
Junior Season (2011-12)
Swam at 2012 U.S. Olympic Trials in Omaha ... Finished 53rd in 200-meter freestyle prelims (2:02.92) ... 60th in 100m freestyle (56.79) ... Earned first career All-America honor at 2012 NCAA Championships in Auburn ... Swam leadoff leg of 800 free relay that earned 12th-place finish (7:06.09) ... Had Auburn's top time in 200 free (1:45.67), finishing 20th at NCAAs ... Posted 43rd-place finish in 100 free (49.66) ... Scored in two individual events and one relay for Auburn at 2012 SEC Championships ... Helped 800 free relay team to 4th place finish (7:06.47) ... Advanced to championship final of 200 free, finishing eighth (1:47.87) ... Finished 15th in 100 free (49.98) ... Took 25th place in 50 free prelims (23.30) ... Had NCAA `B' cuts in 100 and 200 freestyle ... Won 200 free in dual meet at Notre Dame ... Runner-up in 200 free vs. Arkansas ... Runner-up in 100 free vs. Notre Dame ... Top Auburn finisher in 200 free vs. Texas ... Swam 500 free once during season vs. Arkansas ... Named CSCAA Scholar All-American ... Named to SEC Academic Honor Roll ... Elected to serve as a team captain for 2012-13 season.
Sophomore Season (2010-11)
Competed at NCAA Championships as a sophomore ... Finished 48th in 200 freestyle (1:48.05) and 57th in 100 free (50.32) ... Reached finals of 200 free at SEC Championships, where she finished 8th in a time of 1:48.44 ... Her time of 1:46.61 in prelims was a career-best and the team's second-fastest of the season ... Also competed in the 50 free (23.42; 27th) and 100 free (50.30; 20th) at SEC meet ... Helped 800 free relay team to fourth-place finish at SEC Championships (7:04.68) ... Season-best time in 100 free came at Georgia Invitational, where she swam a 49.79 to earn an NCAA `B' cut ... Won 200 free in dual meet against Alabama ... Was Auburn's top 200 free finisher in four meets.
Freshman Season (2009-10)
Competed at the 2010 USA Swimming National Championships ... Took 39th in the 100 free (57.15), 67th in the 50 free (26.84) and 76th in the 200m free (2:04.28) Scored In two events for the Tigers at the 2010 SEC Championships ... Swam the third leg of the third-place finishing 800 free relay that touched in at 7:09.58 ... Qualified for the consolation finals in the 200 free and took 12th overall in a career-best 1:47.88 ... Also competed in the 50 free and 100 free ... Took 22nd in the 50 free (23.38) and 17th in the 100 free (50.40) ... Had nine top five finishes throughout the dual season ... Opened the season with a pair of fourth-place finishes at LSU in the 100 free (52.48) and 200 free (1:53.26) ... Was second in the 200 free (1:50.01) and fourth in the 100 free (51.77) against Alabama ... Fourth in the 200 free at Texas and at Texas A&M ... Fifth in the 100 free against Georgia and at Texas A&M and in the 50 free at Florida.
High School
Attended First Colonial High School ... A six-time state champion ... Holds state records in the 100 and 200 free ... A four-time team captain ... Four-time Outstanding Women's Swimmer of the Year winner ... Swam for the TIDE Swim Team ... Broke a handful of Virginia state records, including the 50m and 100m free.
Daughter of Davis and Sandra Jones ... Has two sisters, Stephanie and Carter ... Sister Stephanie swam for Virginia Tech, while mom Sandra swam at Penn State and dad Davis swam at North Carolina ... Majoring in exercise science.
|Jones' Top Times (SCY)
|50 freestyle
|SEC Championships
|100 freestyle
|NCAA Championships
|200 freestyle
|NCAA Championships
|500 freestyle
|Georgia Invitational
|Jones' Top Times (LCM)
|50 freestyle
|Sr. Nationals
|100 freestyle
|Jr. Nationals
|200 freestyle
|Jr. Nationals
|400 freestyle
|Jr. Nationals

subset: commoncrawl


text:
42 U.S. Code § 3910 - Omitted
Section, Pub. L. 90–448, title IV, § 411, Aug. 1, 1968, 82 Stat. 516, which related to real property taxation was omitted pursuant to section 4528 of this title, which terminated authority to guarantee bonds, debentures, notes, or other obligations under this chapter after Dec. 31, 1970, with exceptions now inapplicable.
LII has no control over and does not endorse any external Internet site that contains links to or references LII.


text:
I felt a bit like I'd been hit by a bus today. Who said exercising was good for you? This reminded me of what it was like to have a cracked rib. Every movement caused me pain. The worst was when I tried to stretch my arms out across the back of the sofa. If the Romans had known anything about torture they would have made the people they were crucifying do a week of physical work-outs first and then their time on the cross would have been really uncomfortable.
So I was grumpy enough already, but then things were made slightly worse when I was trying to cross London to do an early evening charity gig in Peckham. I had thought of driving, but the organisers had recommended that I take the train and it looked easy enough. A quick hop down to Clapham Junction on the new(ish) overland line from Shepherd's Bush and then another train to Peckham Rye. I left an hour early so that I could do some work in a coffee shop when I got to Peckham. Evenso things did not go my way. The line from the Junction to Peckham was closed for engineering and so I had to get a replacement bus and it wasn't very clear where I was meant to go to get that so ended up running through the station in the wrong direction and then back again, only to miss the first bus and have to wait half an hour for the second one. I had been slightly annoyed with myself for accepting this gig at a time when I had so much on, but now tired and aching I was getting into a proper mood. The bus took nearly an hour to get me to Peckham so rather than being an hour early I was twenty minutes late. I was rushed up some stairs and into a weirdly dark room and more or less pushed on to the stage.
Most theatre spaces are of course largely dark, but the stage is usually lit. This one seemed to have minimal lighting on stage and felt slightly eerie. The audience was cloaked in blackness too and I told them how sinister this felt and that I was worried they would all get up and start slowly walking towards me. I couldn't tell what kind of people I was playing to or how old they were or if there were any kids in there and as I had only just arrived had no time to gauge it. The gig was part of a festival so there was lots of extraneous noise, but I couldn't tell if the low hum was an air conditioner, something in another room or the audience trying to freak me out. It felt as close to me having been kidnapped and then forced to entertain strangers as possible. And with my aching limbs it was a bit like my kidnappers had beaten me first.
The lights got brighter over one portion of the audience about halfway through and I speculated that the gig was being lit by the love of the crowd. In which case only one small section were enjoying my comedy, another had a very dimly glowing bulb above them and the ones to the far right only had the emergency exit sign illuminating them. It was as if they were heckling me via electricity and telling me to run for the exit. The set went fine, though it felt like so much effort to get there that anything but me being declared the new Lord of Peckham would have made it feel underwhelming. I was not declared Lord of Peckham. And I felt slightly annoyed that no one from the festival had contacted me to tell me that overland rail route was not open today.
Maybe I should have checked myself.
It's good to do charity work slightly resentfully though, I find. It takes away the possibility of being self-congratulatory and makes you look like a prick, which evens out the good you are doing.


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Tourism-Old Jail Museum
Two blocks east of historic Winchester town square is the Old Jail Museum. When a new modern jail was built, it was decided that the old one was too special to tear down, so it is now used to house Indian artifacts, Civil War memorabilia, Winchester native Dinah Shore memorabilia, and other items of historical interest. Built in 1897, it served as a jail until 1972. A cell has been left in all its austerity as a reminder that being in jail was no laughing matter in the earlier days of our county's history. Also on display are handcuffs, leg irons, keys, and other hardware used by Franklin County Sheriffs that operated the jail.
The Old Jail Museum is open for tours from mid-March until mid-November. It's a great way to spend a leisurely afternoon. 931-967-0524


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We use the information we collect about you:
(1) to fulfill your requests for our products, programs, and services;
(2) to respond to your inquiries about our offerings;
(3) to provide, personalize, and improve our offerings; and
(4) to offer you other products, programs, or services from us and our affiliates, business partners, and selected third parties that we believe may be of interest to you.
We may also use information that we collect about you to
(1) perform research and analysis about your use of, or interest in, our products, services, or content, or products, services, or content offered by others; or
(2) develop and display content and advertising tailored to your interests on our Website and other websites, including providing our advertisements to you when you visit other websites.
We use the information we collect for our online forums and communities to provide an inter-active experience. We use this information to facilitate participation in these online forums and communities and, on one or more occasions, to offer you products, programs, or services.
If you choose to submit content, we may publish your screen name and other information you have provided to us on our Website, the Internet, or elsewhere.
We use information about you to communicate with you, including:
(1) to notify you when we make changes to our terms;
(2) to otherwise enforce or exercise any rights in our terms;
(3) to fulfil a request by you for an online newsletter;
(4) to confirm purchasers you have made through our Website; or
(5) to contact you about your account with us (including managing your account and providing you with customer support).
If offered, you may also choose to receive push notifications from us on your mobile device. Please note that any communications from other users are through our internal systems, which we use to match the message to you and generate an email notice without disclosing any information aside from your chosen screen name and the information contained in your profile.
We use the information that you provide about others to allow us to send them invitations, gifts, cards, or other content on your behalf or through our Website. Occasionally, we also may use this information to offer products, programs, or services to them.
Mobile device data usage
When you access our Website on a mobile device, we may use the information collected for any purpose stated in this privacy policy.
Use of non-personal information
We use aggregate information about our users and non-personal information that we collect to improve the design, functionality, and content of our Website and to allow us to personalize your experience with our Website and offerings. We use this information
(1) to provide, maintain, personalize, protect, improve, and develop our products, programs, and services and to operate our business;
(2) to analyze usage and performance of our Website (including to perform ad tracking and website or mobile application analytics); and
(3) for us and our affiliates, business partners, and selected third parties to offer you products, programs, or services.
(a) Creation of duplicate profiles across our Partner SitesWhen you sign up to any one of our Services we will send you an email shortly afterwards advising that we have created a duplicate profile on our Partner Sites to enhance your chance of finding a suitable match. When we email you about this you will have the option to decline this service, which costs nothing extra.
(b) Important notice about how we use your photographsAs we explain in our terms and conditions, when you upload a photo to any of our Services you are allowing us to use that photo for advertising and other commercial purposes, royalty free. For full details please refer to our terms and conditions – Licence to My Content.
(c) How we use your information about your ContactsIf you choose to upload your Contact's name and email address and/or mobile number you are allowing us to send an email or social network or mobile invitation on your behalf, inviting your Contact to join the Services. We will store your Contact's name and email address solely for the purposes of inviting them to sign up to our Services and for associating your Contact with you and other people they may know. If your Contact does not want us to store their email address which you uploaded to our Services, they can ask us to remove it by contacting our support team. We will not store your Contacts information after invitations (up to a maximum of 3) have been sent. Your Contacts will then only receive future emails from us if they choose to accept the invitation and join our Services, or if you use any of our tools to share experiences with your Contacts and you input their email address for us to use again.
(d) When we disclose your information to third parties and whyLegal disclosures
We may be required by law e.g. through potential or actual litigation, court order, public or governmental authorities, or rules and regulations within or out with your country of residence to disclose all or part of your information to third parties. We may also deem it necessary to make such a disclosure in the event of an issue of national security, law enforcement or other such similar situations as we deem necessary including, for example, allegations of alleged infringement of copyright, trade marks or other third parties' rights by users.
Third Party Service Providers
We share your personal information with third party service providers in order to provide the Services to you including third parties who assist us with information processing, credit and payment processing, fulfilment of your subscription order, managing and hosting data, conducting consumer research or satisfaction surveys. These disclosures relate to providing our Services, improving our Services and delivering targeted advertising to you. We do not provide your contact details to third parties for direct marketing by them to you without your express consent. We do not store credit card details nor do we share customer details with any 3rd parties.
Change of ownership of the business
As we continue to develop our business, we might sell or buy assets. In such transactions, the information we have collected about you will generally be one of the transferred business assets. Also in the unlikely event that any of our group companies or our assets are purchased, your information will also be one of the transferred assets. We may share information about you with:
- Other companies in the same corporate group as us;
- A buyer or prospective buyer of our business;
- Our professional advisers, such as our lawyers, where it is necessary for them to advise;
- Other persons if we are under a duty to disclose or share your information in order to comply with any legal obligation.
When you register or make purchases on our Website or click-through our advertisements offered on third-party websites or applications, we may share your personal information with the businesses with which we collaborate to offer you the applicable products, services, or any advertisements. When you elect to engage in a particular merchant's offer or program, you authorize us to provide your email address and other information to that merchant.
Advertisement servers
At our Website, third parties may present or serve advertisements, provide us with data collection, reporting, ad response measurement, and website analytics, as well as assist with delivery of relevant marketing messages and advertisements. These third parties may view, edit, or set their own cookies. The use of these technologies by these third parties is subject to their own privacy policies and governed by this privacy policy. They may also obtain information about other applications that you have downloaded to your mobile device, the mobile websites you visit, and other information about you or your device in order to help analyze and serve anonymous targeted advertising on the Website and elsewhere.
Aggregated or non-personal information
We may share your non-personal information we collect under any of the above circumstances. We may also share it with other companies and third parties to develop and deliver targeted advertising on our Website and on websites or applications of third parties, and to analyze and report on advertising you see. We may combine non-personal information we collect with additional non-personal information collected from other sources.
(a) When we market to you directly about our products and servicesWe may share your information with our Partner Sites and Group Companies to develop and deliver targeted advertising to you of our Partner Sites and Group Companies' products and services, or to help us to prepare marketing reports. We may send you information about our Partner Sites and Group Companies' products and services, news and offers, and selected third party products and services that we think may be of interest to you. We may do this by contacting you through your email address or mobile phone number that you have provided. Any communication received from us, as consented to by you, will clearly state that it is being sent by us. You have the option to opt-out of our marketing communications at any time (see below).
(b) When third parties market to you (Our "third party Partner Services")If you have consented to receive marketing communications from third parties, referred to as Partner Services, your data may be passed on to such third parties as we enter into data sharing agreements with, from time to time, for marketing and analytical reporting purposes. We cannot be held liable for the content of the third party's communications or products/services they are promoting. If you have provided this consent, but change your mind, you can opt-out at any time (see below). Please be advised that you will also require to contact the individual third parties who have been marketing to you if you wish to stop receiving their communications directly.
(c) Opting Out of MarketingIf you change your mind about the marketing consent you have granted to us, you can amend your preferences under the "My Account" section of your chosen Site or emailing us at firstname.lastname@example.com
6. WHERE WE STORE YOUR DATAThe personal data that we collect from you may be transferred to, and stored at, a location outside the European Economic Area ('EEA') including but not limited to Canada where we host our servers. It may also be processed by law enforcement agencies, employees and independent contractors of our Group Companies located outside the EEA who work for us or for one of our suppliers (for example, staff who are involved in providing services that you order from us, processing your payment details or providing support services to us). By submitting your personal data to us, you agree to this transfer, storing or processing. We will take all steps reasonably necessary to ensure that your data is treated securely and in accordance with this privacy policy.
7. HOW LONG WE KEEP YOUR DATA FORGenerally speaking, we only store data for as long as it is necessary to provide products and Services to you and others, with information typically being held until you cancel your membership.
For data storage purposes however our users are considered as either being:
(a) Active Users; this means you regularly log on to our Services and use the Services in any way;
(b) Inactive Users: this means that you have not cancelled your account but you haven't logged in for 9 months, or conducted any activity on our Services in that time;
(c) Cancelled: this means that you have followed our cancellation process and actively cancelled your membership.
(a) Active UsersIf you are an Active User we will store your data until you cancel your account.
(b) Inactive UsersIf you are an Inactive User, you should be aware that we will continue to store your data until you cancel you account, including continue to market to you if you have consented to marketing. Just because you haven't logged on for a few months, we hope you will return to use the Services regularly and we want your information to be there for your convenience so you should be aware that you will still appear in our search results for other users, and your profile will remain visible. The responsibility to change your preferences or cancel your account lies with you.
(c) Cancelled UsersIf you are a Cancelled User, we will delete all of your data 9 months after the date of cancellation. It is important that we retain your data for this short period after cancellation to ensure that we can answer any payment or other account related queries, or provide information to third parties in line with our disclosure provisions outlined in this policy e.g. assisting police investigations. Even after you remove information from your profile or delete your account, copies of that information may still be viewable and/or accessed on the Internet to the extent such information has been previously shared with others, or copied or stored by other users or to the extent such information has been shared with search engines. We cannot control this, nor do we accept any liability for this. If you have given third party applications or websites access to your personal information they may retain such information to the extent permitted under their terms of service or privacy policies.
(d) Storage of activity dataWhilst we retain your Personal Data, Sensitive Personal Data and Anonymous Data as outlined at (a) to (c) above, there are some features of our Services that we store data in respect of, for different periods of time. For example, messages are only stored for 30 days, winks and other similar activities are stored for 10 days. All other profile and activity information including photographs, blocked list, search histories etc. are stored until 9 months after your account is cancelled.
(e) Banned and terminated usersIf your account is ever terminated by us, or you are detected as a potential or actual scammer, or a potential or otherwise threat to our business or our users, your email address will be retained on our internal blacklist for as long as we deem necessary to protect the business and its users.
8A. HOW WE KEEP YOUR DATA SECUREUnfortunately, the transmission of information via the internet is not completely secure. Although we will do our best to protect your personal data, we cannot guarantee the security of your data transmitted to the Site; any transmission is at your own risk. We take reasonable administrative, physical, and electronic measures designed to safeguard and protect your information from unauthorized access or disclosure. This includes using Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) software, which encrypts the personal information you input, and storing your information in encrypted form behind a firewall designed to block access from outside our network. Although we use commercially reasonable efforts to safeguard the privacy of your information, transmissions on the Internet cannot be made absolutely secure. Moreover, we cannot assure you that your personal information that we collect will not be used or disclosed inconsistently with this privacy policy. We assume no responsibility or liability for disclosure of any of your information due to errors in transmission, unauthorized third-party access, or other causes beyond our reasonable control.
8B. HOW YOU CAN HELP KEEP YOUR OWN DATA SECUREWe have designed the Website to make it easy for you to find, connect, and interact with other members of the Website by posting information about yourself. You can also use our electronic messaging system, which allows you to communicate with other users provided you are both subscribers. We recommend and encourage you (and all our members) to think carefully about the information they disclose about themselves. We also do not recommend that you put email addresses, URLs, instant messaging details, phone numbers, full names or addresses, credit card details, national identity numbers, drivers' license details, and other sensitive information in your profile, which is open to abuse and misuse.
Please be careful about posting sensitive details about yourself on your profile such as your religious denomination and health details. While you may voluntarily provide this information to us when you create your profile, including your sexual preferences and ethnic background, there is no requirement to do so. Please remember that photographs or any video clips that you post on the Website may reveal these kinds of sensitive personal data. Where you do upload and choose to tell us sensitive information about yourself, you are explicitly consenting to our processing your information and making this public to other users.
When you post information about yourself or use the messaging service, the amount of personal information you share is at your own risk. In addition, these postings may appear on other websites or in searches on the subject matter of your posting. Whenever you voluntarily disclose personal information on publicly viewable webpages, you make that information publicly available and others can collect and use that information. For example, if you post your email address, you may receive unsolicited email messages. If you post anything that is inconsistent with our terms, we reserve the right to terminate your account.
9. OUR COOKIE POLICYWe may collect information about your computer or mobile device by using Cookies. If you use our site you are consenting to the use of Cookies as explained here. Cookies are small text files that are placed on your computer by websites that you visit and provide statistical data to us, that does not identify you personally but tell us a lot about your browsing habits to tailor your user experience to suit your needs. They are widely used in order to make websites work, or work more efficiently, as well as to provide information to the owners of the site. We use cookies to enhance our security, help us gather information during subscription and understand our web traffic trends and to share your non-personal information with carefully selected third parties for marketing purposes.
Cookies help us to improve the Services and to deliver a better and more personalised service. They enable us:
- To estimate our audience size and usage pattern;
- To store information about your preferences, and so allow us to customise the Services according to your individual interests;
- To speed up your searches;
- To recognise you when you return to any website or application;
- To provide anonymised statistical information: Non-personal data may be gathered on our behalf using cookies, log file data, and code that is embedded on our websites by specific third party partners to help these selected third parties to deliver relevant advertisements to you.
Controlling and deleting cookies
You have the right to choose whether or not to accept cookies and we explain how you can exercise this right below. However, please note that if you choose to refuse cookies you may not be able to use the full functionality of our Sites and the websites of other companies. You may block cookies in several ways:
- by using the opt-outs provided below;
- by visiting http://www.youronlinechoices.com/; or
- through your browser, as explained below.
Further information about cookies, including how to see what cookies have been set on your device and how to manage and delete them, visit www.aboutcookies.org and www.youronlinechoices.eu.
What cookies are used for and why we use them on this Site
This table shows fully the cookie functions and why they are used, although our uses may change over time and it is important that you revisit this page to understand these uses:
|Cookie Functions
|Cookie Purposes
|Analytics and research
|We use the information collected by Google Analytics to compile reports and to help us improve the site. The cookies collect information in an anonymous form, including the number of visitors to the site, where visitors have come to the site from and the pages they visited. You can opt-out of Google Analytics here.
|These cookies help us to identify our members so that when you're logged in, you can enjoy all of the features without having to continually log in – our website "remembers" you and allows you full access without the need to keep entering your log in details.
|Security and site integrity
|We may use cookies and other devices, such as CAPTCHAs, to help keep the Site and our members safe and secure by protecting the Site from fraud and spam attacks to keep your data safe.
|Site features and services
|These cookies and local storage devices provide the functionality that our members enjoy, such as uploading of photographs, chats, instant messaging, your account settings etc. We also use cookies to help provide experiences, such as links to other social media sites, social plugins and video content, including making it easier for you to share content between the website with your other favourite social networks. In some cases, the site feature you choose may allow a third party to place cookies or local storage devices on your computer. The third party who places cookies on your device is responsible for how they process their data you should always read their privacy policies. Third parties who place cookies on your device when you use the Site include Twitter and Facebook whose own privacy policies apply.
|We need to use certain cookies and local storage devices to ensure our members have the best possible experience, such assisting with your navigation of our site, ensuring pages load up quickly and respond faster to your requests for our Services.
|Ad Serving & Behavioural Advertising
|We sell space on some of our websites to advertisers. We use several services to help us and advertisers understand what adverts you might be interested in. These cookies hold information about the computer - they don't hold personal information about you (i.e. it's not linked to you as an individual). But they might hold a record of what other websites you've looked at - so we could show you a car advert if you've previously visited a motoring website.
Advertisements on this Site and the other sites you visit are provided by other organisations. Our advertising partners will serve advertisements that they believe are most likely to be of interest to you, based on information about your visit to the Site and other websites. In order to do this, our advertising partner may need to place a cookie on your computer.
For more information about this type of online behavioural advertising, about cookies, and about how to turn this feature off, please visit www.youronlinechoices.eu and select your country.
These are some examples of the services we use and how you can control those cookies. This list is not exhaustive and is subject to change. Please visit www.youronlinechoices.com for active cookie management on your device. Please note that turning off advertising cookies won't mean that you are not served any advertising merely that it will not be tailored to your interests.
OpenX (advertising) Privacy policy and opt-out via http://www.openx.com/about/privacy-policy
VisualDNA (ad relevancy): Privacy policy at http://www.visualdna.com/cookie-policy and you can opt out via http://my.visualdna.com/permissions
Lotame (ad relevancy): Privacy policy at http://www.lotame.com/privacy/ and opt out via http://www.lotame.com/opt-out-preference-manager
Doubleclick (advertising): Privacy policy at http://www.google.com/doubleclick/privacy/ and opt out via http://www.youronlinechoices.com/
eXelate (ad relevancy): Privacy policy and opt out via http://exelate.com/consumer-opt-out/
Google Adsense (ad partner). Privacy policy at https://support.google.com/adsense/bin/answer.py?hl=en-GB&utm_medium=link&gsessionid=DyXLmLB1J1MxXckh6tX6AQ&utm_campaign=ww-ww-et-asfe_&utm_source=aso&answer=48182 and opt-out via https://www.google.com/settings/ads/onweb/.
10. OUR RIGHTS TO AMEND THIS POLICYWe keep our privacy policy under regular review and will post any changes to it on this page. We encourage you to regularly review our privacy policy to make sure you are always aware of what information we collect, how we use it and under what circumstances, if any, we may share it with other parties. We may also contact you from time to time to advise of any changes if we feel such notification is necessary depending on the extent of the changes.
11. LINKS TO OTHER THIRD PARTY WEBSITESOur websites, apps, and promotional materials, may, from time to time, contain links to and from the websites of our third party networks, advertisers and affiliates. If you follow a link to any of these websites, please note that these websites have their own privacy policies and that we do not accept any responsibility or liability for these policies. Please check these policies before you submit any personal data to these websites.
12. ADDITIONAL PRIVACY PROTECTIONS FOR CHILDREN USING THE INTERNETWe do not solicit or target persons younger than legal age for collection of information online. Our Site does not permit children under the age of 18 to become users and we do not accept any information from children. By submitting information to us you represent that you are over the age of 18. We encourage minors to seek the consent of their parents before providing any information about themselves or their households to anyone on the Internet. We encourage parents to take an active role to protect the privacy and security of their children and to prevent the inappropriate use of information about their children. We support the development of technologies that help parents to control the collection and use of personal information from children who use online services in their households.
13. SPECIAL TERMS FOR RESIDENTS OF CALIFORNIA, USAIf you are a California resident, you have the right to receive: (1) information identifying any third party company to whom we may have disclosed, within the past calendar year, personal information concerning you and your family for our direct marketing purposes; and (2) a description of the categories of personal information disclosed. You must make a request in writing to us to obtain this information. We will not process your request unless it includes your name and email address, the URL for the website you visited, and a return address. We will only honour one request per calendar year. Please contact our customer support team to make your request.
14. QUESTIONSIf you have any questions about this privacy policy, then please contact us at email@example.com.
15. GOVERNING LAWThe laws of England and Wales govern this privacy policy and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it or its subject matter (including non-contractual disputes or claims). If a conflict exists between this English language version and any translated copies of the privacy policy, the English version will prevail.


text:
Muriel A. Robertson, 51, of St. Michael, N.D., began her journey into the Spirit World on Thursday, February 28, 2013 at Altru Hospital in Grand Forks, N.D., surrounded by her children.
Muriel A. Robertson, 51, of St. Michael, N.D., began her journey into the Spirit World on Thursday, February 28, 2013 at Altru Hospital in Grand Forks, N.D., surrounded by her children.
Funeral services will be held Thursday, March 7 at 10 am at the Dakota Oyate Lutheran Church, rural Tokio, N.D. Pastor Paul Young will officiate. The Wake for Muriel will be held on Wednesday, March 6 from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m. with the prayer service at 7 p.m. all at the Dakota Oyate Lutheran Church. Procession will leave at 4 p.m. from Walmart parking lot on Wednesday Music: Russ McDonald drum group
Active pallbearers will be Jeremy Robertson, Jason Robertson, Jonathon Robertson, Erik Azure, James Robertson Jr., Dion Peterson and Jeff Whiteshield. Honorary pallbearers will be Esther Abraham, Crystal Welch, Renae Lenoir, Cheryl Bull, Cassandra (Chepa) Cloud, Claudette Larson, Martina (Candy) Robertson, Carol (Nibbs) Brown II and all of Muriel's many friends and relatives.
Muriel was born in Devils Lake, ND, on July 8, 1961 to Lang and Mary Rita (Abraham) Yellowhammer. She attended Fort Totten Public School throughout her grade school years and graduated as Salutatorian of her class in May 1979. She also attended college at Candeska Cikana Community College and received a CDA. She married Jeremiah Robertson in August 1979. They were married for 23 years before divorcing in May 2002. They had four children, Jeremy, Jason, MaryAnn, and Jonathon Robertson. While Residing in rural St. Michael, Muriel worked for Sioux Manufacturing Corp (Brunswick) for four years also Spirit Lake Head Start in 1995 until present. She enjoyed watching her children play softball, doing crossword puzzles, and staying home and spending time with her grandchildren. But on the other hand, her grandchildren always put a smile on her face. She always made sure her children were well taken care of. She also enjoyed listening to Luke & Mackenzie's stories.
Muriel was a very caring, honest, understanding, and loving person. She enjoyed a good laugh all of the time. Muriel will be greatly missed by her family, friends, and coworkers. While employed at Spirit Lake Head Start she really enjoyed working with the children.
Muriel is survived by her children, Jeremy (Melissa) Robertson, Jason (Clarissa) Robertson, MaryAnn Robertson, and Jonathon Robertson; brother, Nathan Yellowhammer; aunts, Esther Abraham, Sylvia Webber; uncle, Glen Abraham; cousins, Margo Gourd and June Gourd; niece, Marietta Yellowhammer; nephews, Erik Azure and Jeff Whiteshield; and by her grandchildren Cherise Robertson, Kaitlyn Robertson, Luke Robertson, Becca Robertson, Payten Robertson (Jeremy and Melissa) and Mackenzie Robertson (Jason and Clarissa), Adam Robertson (Maryann Robertson).
She is preceded in death by her parents, Mary and Lang Yellowhammer; brothers, John Yellowhammer and David Yellowhammer; grandmother, Jennie (Feather) Abraham and aunt, Eleanor Mazakahomni.
Friends may sign the online register book at www.gilbertsonfuneralhome.com
Gilbertson Funeral Home, Devils Lake, is in charge of arrangements.


text:
New website has just been released !
Hope you will like it, any comment/feedback is highly appreciated.
New website has just been released !
Hope you will like it, any comment/feedback is highly appreciated.
Hi Zenatrul,
Welcome aboard :)
I'm currently working on these features.
- Pause / Resume
- Reset
- Save / Load
Should be live before end of September.
Possibly a new keyboard layout too using WASD.
Hey admin, loving the website, the emus are working well :) never have i played sega CD in a browser before! XD a little bit of slowdown here and there, but that might just be the browser i'm using. keep up the good work! :)
Hey guys,
It's so great to hear amazing feedback from you. Please make sure to spread the word about the website. We need you and your friends aboard !Some amazing things are in the works besides improvements to current systems.
I'm spending the weekend to finish implementing saving / loading, it's roughly working and will post on the forum when published and ready to use.
Thank you very much for your kind words josethugs.
Make sure to spread the word about the website, it could help a bit of self promotion.
Fullscreen (with possible scanlines and/or scale2x effects), network coop play and native gamepad support are possible. Gamepad support is already partially enabled but it does not work well because of a bug of Flash Player itself.
Regarding records, what do you suggest ? Posting a screenshot of the game with your score on it would do the trick ?
Hi Megazell,
The website is making use of very recent Flash Player version (11.7+ actually), and it is not supported to Linux because of Adobe dumb attitude.
Adobe last release for Linux is 11.2, so it cannot work properly :(
My only plan for supporting Linux is having an HTML5 fallback, but I have to focus first on pushing the new version with fullscreen, save/load, variable framerate support (PAL/NTSC), support for vertical arcade games and so on.
So please bear with it, I'm really sorry for annoyance. I'm a regular user of Ubuntu Linux myself and I can feel your pain.
I wasn't sure where to put this, since the classic arcade forum isn't up yet, but have the sonic wings coin op games been taken off the website? I'd love to know, otherwise, great website, i've been enjoying it a lot :)
HI knuckles352,
Search for Aero Fighters in Classic Arcade and Neo Geo section. It's the other name of Sonic Wings series.
You're right, I definitely need to update the forums to reflect the new systems added lately.
Great to hear you love the website, make sure to spread the word ;)
This site is nuts! How does it work, it's a Flash emulator? There's a lot of games here. Any options to change controls?
Yes, it's a Flash emulator.No options yet to change controls, but this is definitely doable in the near future.
It should work with a controller right? I hope this site stays up for a long time! I'm off to get a controller!
Controller support is not OFFICIALLY supported yet (still partially working, XBOX 360 controller only so far), but I will focus my efforts on it this month.
what the name new web
Hi admin. Can we get an update for the controller? I'd like to buy one for xmas and I don't know which one to buy! Thanks!
You best bet for controller is XBOX 360.First one which I am going to fully support. Controller support will be released in January 2014 since I will have free time at Christmas to work on it.
Hey ADMIN.. is it possible to play 2 player mode..? if so, then how...???
Not yet.
Get a donation box, get more coder fix multiplayer mode both offline and online.
Its awesome this site! some extra functionality like dual-play this site would be amazing. Hope you get to use HTML5 in the future :)
All the best!
And thank you so much for doing this!! :)
Hi Admin i was wondering how do you play online and are you able to play two people on one screen for example with the simpsons arcade or xmen and so forth thanks.
can you use a controller like a playstation controller for this
hello Admin loving site but i was wondering if there is a way to spped up or slow down emulation speed to better help with stuff like grinding in rpg's?
you can try but the only approved controller for beta testing is the 360 wired controller as it seems to have a higher success rate but other members have had some sucess with others controllers
not possible at the moment but may be in future updates to the site
whats it called
whats it called
whats it called
what is the new website called
He is lying he got rid of all the gaes. Give us Emerald and pokemon black back you lying duck and thief! No one cares what you think we want pokemon back duck faced coward admin. Block me then admin coward. you deleted all my saves as well you cowardly lying snake!
Do not believe the creap admin he is lying and wants you to stay on this website. Join coolrom.
how do you play 2 player games. i have a windows 8 pc. thanks
admin and rebelradius for the answers.
sorry dlssls its only one player at the moment.
I'm not sure if I would consider Rebel as a reliable source, but to each his own.
I'm not sure if I would consider Rebel as a reliable source, but to each his own.
Get rid of it or I will report this to the police as harassement and you will get a criminal record.
how do you know who these charecters are if you hate anime so much. seriously are you taking your sweet time just to learn these things so you can make your insults. A+ for effort. though you should seriously shut up.
I will notify the police if you don't get rid of that stupid picture.
murdered a town you loser
scum of earth worse than smelly natsu
DMCA pokemon gone when or no troll ducks silly
red clouds and black background
okarin and myurii die!!!
natsu kisses erza and she is a man.
and watch spyer89 change his avatar.
adminspyer9 in disguise
gary oak pokemon yellow i was upto the damn lloreil of elite 4
doctors and mice.
how do you know this? also he didn't kill anybody in the town. heck there was a whole episode dedicated to explaining this. also yes he killed his brother but was forced to.


text:
|2007-12-10, 11:16
|Link #1
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
Classifying "Visual Novels"
(I moved this conversation to its own thread. It was originally part of the "What Ero-games are your favorites at the moment?" thread.)
I guess the issue is that the gameplay style is so big/popular in Japan that it spawned distinct subgenres (ero/consumer, NVL/ADV, etc.). But for the rest of the world, it's so obscure that it's much more useful to have a global label so we can differentiate "Japanese story games" from everything else out there. In the context of the usual English fandom, p997tt's post (where he mixes everything together under the "Visual Novel" banner) makes perfect sense.
|2007-12-10, 12:36
|Link #2
***y translator
Join Date: Jan 2006
According to JA wikipedia, it's actually the other way around. Visual novels are a subset of Adventure games.
|2007-12-10, 13:42
|Link #3
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
Question: Would we be better off if this thread were "What Visual Novels are your favourites at the moment?" We've often talked about non-ero games and consumer adaptations in the thread anyway, and I don't think whether or not a game has ero content is really the deciding issue for most of the games we're discussing here. Does that make sense?
|2007-12-10, 13:52
|Link #4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
|2007-12-10, 17:14
|Link #5
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 32
Well, I'm somewhat keen on sticking to correct (meaning japanese) terms' usage conventions, but there are always exceptions that might entertain us from time to time. For example, minori called ef an "interactive novel". The term is somewhat puzzling because the scenario is read like a novel, it has an AVG-style text box at the bottom, storyline and endings are predetermined, and the only interactivity found is a few decission points which really don't influence anything because the outcome is the same.
I think English-speaking fans tend to label these types of adventure games as visual novels based on the characteristics of their stories. Similarly we tend to call them eroge or ero games if they include a "sufficient" number of ero scenes. But it's puzzling where to draw the line because some AVGs tend to have excellent scenarios but quite a few ero events. I think we should move away from this line of thinking and just stick to whatever their creators call them separately. We really don't need a term to label them all, we need a pool of standard (japanese) terms.
|2007-12-10, 17:37
|Link #6
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
|2007-12-10, 18:21
|Link #7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
At any rate, this is just another example of how silly the terms are. Japanese marketers love stretching definitions as far as possible (Gun Action RPG?), with adventure game being a prime example.
|2007-12-10, 19:45
|Link #8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 32
|2007-12-10, 21:27
|Link #9
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
|2007-12-10, 22:12
|Link #10
***y translator
Join Date: Jan 2006
As far as I know, and in my opinion, "adventure game" (abbreviated as either ADV or AVG) is the main genre category. According to JA wikipedia, "they are games which involve the player choosing commands to select their actions. Many of them require solving a variety of puzzles. Adult games are often of this genre". So, the term ADV could really mean everything from just choosing dialogue options, to something like Zork, where the player has to make the commands themselves. Note that I would not consider where or how text is displayed as being any determining factor.
The article also makes a distinction with "simulation games", with the difference being that the main character in a "simulation games" has various attributes, and the outcome of commands may change depending on said attributes.
Visual novels would be a subcategory of ADV games, but the two terms are not interchangeable. All VNs are ADV games, but not the other way around. The main difference with VNs is that the game mostly follows a linear path, with only a few decision points. The player would not have the option of making their own commands, which is the norm for classic Western adventure games.
How about terms like eroge? I'd consider this as just another tag which can be used to further describe a subgenre, and not really a subgenre in itself. Trying to make a distinction between this and VNs is like trying to make a difference between Sci-fi RTS and Fantasy RTS imho.
Things like "dating sim" would also be merely another tag that could be added to an actual genre, and not a genre itself. A genre should define how a game is played, not what the content is. Kinda like describing Wasteland as a "post-apocalyptic adventure game". Post-apocalyptic isn't a genre, it's just a tag to describe it.
And how about things like where text appears? I've seen that being used as the main argument for differentiation, but I really don't think that's an important factor at all. Continuing with my RTS analogy, it's like calling a system like C&C with a sidebar building system different from, say, Warcraft. It's just the interface, for crying out loud.
The Japanese companies themselves don't help the matter with terms like kinetic novel, interactive novel, sound novel et cetera. A lot of it seems superfluous to me, and is just a marketing label to have a "different" product from their competitors.
So, anyway, I've been rambling, and I doubt it's very well organized. How should the various categories and/or subcategories be defined?
Last edited by selkirk; 2007-12-10 at 22:29.
|2007-12-11, 06:57
|Link #11
Join Date: Jul 2006
I've been "brought up" by KJ to call them erogames or eroge. But then I found out that many people also call them visual novels (the term used by LEAF in the good old To Heart days).
So now, I don't really care any more. As long as I can establish coversation, it doesn't matter which term I use.
By the way, kinetic novel is a term made up by visual art's. Because the releases (many, including Planetarian) are VNs without decision points, some people reverse-define it to categorise games with no decision points. IMO just use VNs is fine.
|2007-12-11, 09:24
|Link #12
ニア ☆ 命
Join Date: Feb 2004
Mwahaha, something I posted actually spawned into this.
How do we know what is the original genre as termed by the Japanese? Especially when some of you don't know Japanese and when you see several English sites using the term Visual Novels and you start to think that that's the right general term for all erotic games?
To be honest, I admit that I don't really know. But the reason why I started this was because someone mentioned something about a Non-adult game (Symphonic Rain) in a thread specifically for Ero-games and termed it as a Visual Novel among a group of both Adult and Non-adult games. I mean, that's just plain confusing right? Normally I wouldn't give a damn, but I decided to post something to see what happens and viola, this happens.
Well so I decided to do a little research on the Japanese wiki and I found this.
And it just makes things more confusing.
But what I did gather is that the term Adventure game is the main genre of all the games we discussed. But its' abbreviation ADV is normally used to term many Gal Games and Boys' Love games. Which doesn't help at all.
So where does "Visual novel" come into my argument? Like I said, I wanted to clarify it because I feel strongly that "Visual novel" shouldn't be used to generalize all games (both non and adult) like what this guy was suggesting. I'm not blaming him or anything, after all he got his sources from some other guy.
For me, Japanese games were always Erogames or non Erogames (why go into the technicality of whether "Ero" is rightfully a "genre" or "description"?). Visual Novels are the ones with text all over the background and it was immortalized when Leaf started using it for their games. ADV games are the ones with the dialogue boxes in the bottom half of the screen ala Da Capo, Shuffle etc. Come on, almost all Erogames I played had text only in this 2 forms.
You can agree with me or not, but the best way to be sure is to go the the official game sites and look at the genres the companies give their products. You can't beat that. Sure there are more and more weird genres but so far the common "Above 18" games I bothered to check are ADV, AVG, Visual Novel, SLG, SRPG.
Call me anal if you want, but tell me again, where did you get the idea that Visual Novels should be the main genre? Shouldn't we just stick to "Erogames"? I mean, we were talking about Adult games right?
No actually, I just want to stir up things and see the reaction. This is a forum no? Good times.
|2007-12-11, 11:06
|Link #13
***y translator
Join Date: Jan 2006
One of the problems with just using the term "Erogame", is that there's a huge variety of games, with vastly different gameplay, which could all be grouped as such. Would you really consider Kanon, Schoolmate, and let's say, some strip Mahjong game the same thing? All three could be considered as an "Erogame", but few people would really consider them to be the same type of game.
Does where the text appear really make enough of a difference to merit different genre labels?
|2007-12-11, 11:54
|Link #14
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
|2007-12-12, 09:05
|Link #19
ニア ☆ 命
Join Date: Feb 2004
And because of the above, I just cannot agree with your definition of "describing a story with text" as Visual Novel. Comics tell stories with text too, so are they novels too? Yeah, it's a shitty analogy but what you're trying to do is to completely ignore the original Japanese intention of the term and explain it along English terms. Don't forget that the term "Visual Novels" did not originate along with erogames. There were thousands of erotic games involving nudity during the PC-98 and Dos/V eras, years before Leaf created the word "visual novel" for their games. And yes, Leaf was the first to create the "whole page with text" games.
If you're trying to generalize games, using general terms like Japanese Adventure Game, Japanese Bishoujo Game might be a better choice. For me, I just stick to Non-Adult, Erogames and the subgenres like Visual Novel, SRPG, Strip Mahjong etc. Of course I'd have to further explain myself most of the times...
I mean, it's not hard to guess from the names given right? Gun Action RPG? Probably an RPG about guns, and if I know erogames as well as I do, it's more likely just a normal ero ADV game about guns in a fantasy setting. Interactive Novel? Yeah, Visual Novel with more options. But maybe because I belong to the older group of erogamers, there were very few genres then. I agree that all this new labelling is just marketing gimmick to promote the same thing with a new word.
Yep, guess I'll go rant instead with unabashed smartass attitude.
In the official site, Little busters is an "ALL-AGES" Love Adventure game.
There are 2 kinds of games in Japan. "ALL ages" and "Above 18" games. To me, "Above 18" games are Erogames and vice versa. There are no in-betweens except for the occasional panties-flashing console games like Dreamcast games and what happened to that? So it's either Nipples or No Nipples in the world of Japanese gaming. Unless I'm mistaken and Japan is rewriting its censorship categorizing laws.
Look, point is there's no easy way for us English speakers to simplify the categories of Japanese games with just a word or two. You either go and make an effort to understand their way of terms or not at all.
If you want, here's my formula in differentiating them:
Number 1: Japanese games are either "ALL AGES" or "ABOVE 18 (I call them erogames)"
Number 2: If they're Visual Novels, they must be full of text.
Number 3: If they're ADV/AVG, they must be 2/3 picture and 1/3 dialogue.
Number 4: If they're something else, they must be ADV style during dialogue and probably have "extra" gaming options like battle game modes etc.
Number 5: If there's the word "Novel" somewhere, I'm probably looking at pages full of text.
Number 6: If it's called Insult game and has both pages full of text and pages with partial text... hell do I even care anymore?
Last edited by musashiken; 2007-12-12 at 09:45.
|2007-12-12, 12:57
|Link #20
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
That being said, I don't think it makes any sense to put "18+" or "all-ages" at the top of the classification pyramid. It's a descriptor, much like "PC or console" or "PS3, XBOX360, or Wii". The age descriptor describes the audience, not the genre. When an 18+ game gets ported to a console and the ero-scenes removed, the gameplay doesn't change, the target audience does. This is why I wonder if it makes any sense to have a "what ero-games are you playing at the moment?" thread -- is the fact that they have ero scenes really the defining factor for those of us discussing it in that thread?
In any event, here's to hoping for some more diverse opinions on the matter.
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