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In this podcast, coinciding with Fog Creek's 15th Anniversary, we take a look back over the years at the various successes and failures we've had at Fog Creek.
We discuss the early days of Fog Creek and how we recovered from a doomed first product. As well as dealing with technical debt, the missed opportunities we've had along the way, and what we've learned from them. We also get into how we develop new products and the impact of bootstrapping, before finishing with tips for those starting companies themselves.
Joel Spolsky – Co-Founder of Fog Creek, CEO of Stack Overflow and Founder of Trello
Michael Pryor – Co-Founder and President of Fog Creek, Board Member at Stack Overflow and Trello Founder and CEO
David Fullerton – Former Fog Creek Developer, now VP Engineering at Stack Overflow
Justin Gallagher – Former Fog Creek Program Manager, now VP Product at Trello
Jack Bowman – Veteran FogBugz Developer at Fog Creek
Allie Schwartz – Host of the Podcast and VP People at Fog CreekContent and Timings
Introduction (0:00)
Early Successes and Failures at Fog Creek (2:00)
Developing Products for the Long-term (15:00)
Missed Opportunities (25:02)
The Impact of Venture Funding (36:12)
Hiring Smart People Who Get Stuff Done (41:27)
Welcome. My name is Allie and I am the VP of People at Fog Creek Software. This is a conversation about Fog Creek's first 15 years, some of our big successes, how they happened, and some of our failures and what we learned about them. With us today are a bunch of people who worked at Fog Creek or still work at Fog Creek, and who were involved in the spinning off of the two products that came from Fog Creek and are now currently huge, successful companies of their own. I am going to introduce them and then they're going to say a little hello, so that you can hear their voices. First, on my left, is Joel Spolsky. He is one of the founders of Fog Creek, Trello and Stack Overflow. Say hi, Joel.
Hi, Allie.
Hi. Next, we have David Fullerton, who is the VP of Engineering at Stack Overflow and he started his career at Fog Creek.
That's true, as an intern.
As an intern.
Hello. Then we have Justin Gallagher, who came to Fog Creek in 2010 as a designer.
PM at the time.
Yeah. On Stack Exchange Enterprise.
Which I didn't even know.
That's right. He worked on Stack Overflow too.
Wow. Stack Overflow and FogBugz, and is currently the VP of Product at Trello. Hi, Justin.
Hello. Now we have Jack Bowman, who also came to Fog Creek in 2010. First job straight out of college and he is one of our developers on FogBugz.
Hi, Allie.
Hi, Jack. He's five years at Fog Creek, and he's one of our old-timers, hilariously.
Last, but certainly not least, we have Michael Pryor, also one of the founders of Fog Creek, Trello and Stack Overflow.
I'm just more like a bookkeeper. I was the bookkeeper at Stack Overflow.
He was the bookkeeper at Stack Overflow and currently, the CEO of Trello. Hi, Michael.
Hi, it's great to be at this Quinceañera party. It's awesome.
Yeah. It's great. Every day is a Quinceañera.
We need music.
Early Successes and Failures at Fog Creek
We're going to start just talking really broadly. Joel, can you talk to me a little bit about … Fog Creek has had a lot of successes. Probably more than a lot of companies, although there have also been some …
Sure. Companies have gone out of business with fewer successes than we've had.
That's true. We've had some failure too, but more successes than most companies. Do you have anything, just off the top of your head, that you think is one of the largest contributors to that?
You mean why we have so many successes?
I guess it could be my brilliance.
That's what I was going to say, Joel.
Yeah, go on. Sorry, okay. No, it's really all about the people, Allie.
Yeah, true.
It's about get the best people first and then good to great things will come from that.
I think that's the defining … Joel doesn't want to toot his own horn, but I think the defining feature of a Joel and Michael company is putting people first, choosing people very carefully and then setting them up for success and letting them pursue the ideas. Everybody talks about people first and all that stuff, but I think the way that … The specific way that that's actually done in Joel and Michael companies is a big piece of the success of all three companies.
It's also we're looking at this from hindsight. We're going to get to the failures, I bet, coming up, but it's easy to point out the successes when we gloss over all the times that we failed. In fact, if you think about one of the first products that we even created for our company was a giant miss.
Why don't you talk about the first product you ever created?
When we started Fog Creek, we were consulting and that was actually successful.
Well, for 10 minutes.
Right, it was successful for 10 minutes and then what happened was we were doing consulting and we thought we're bringing in big bucks. We're basically bringing in twice as much as we're paying, and with the extra money, we're going to invest it in building other products. That was 1999? 2000.
Great time to start a company.
Then, essentially, the market blew up and the first thing that people cut was their spending on outside consultants. There were actually a lot of companies, Scient, Viant…
Razorfish. There were a lot of consulting companies out there.
It was easy for us to get jobs or get a business very early on, and so we hired two people, and then basically when the consulting dried up, we were like [gasp], okay, reset.
Then we thought, we were working on a product at the time. It was a content management system called CityDesk that we were building because it was much too hard to build websites at the time, because you had to install all these Perl scripts and you needed root access on the server. We were like, oh, you can just run it on your desktop. That'll make it easier. It was, but also the people that were building those tools also realized that it was hard, and so they basically started hosting those things. So you got Blogger and Movable Type and TypePad and all that stuff. It was just a total miss to try to build a desktop app for content management.
We made a reasonable bet, but it was the wrong bet.
Right. We've done that a couple times, where we couldn't get … We'll probably cover some other things that we did that with.
We certainly will.
It was lucky at the time, because we had this other product that we were building, which was a bug tracking app, that Joel had built previously at a different company and then he used it at Viacom. What was it called then? JoelBugz?
VisBugz. Then we used it a Juno, where Joel and I met.
Where it was JunoBugz.
It was JunoBugz, and then we used it at Fog Creek, so we called it FogBugz, and we're like, we can make a couple bucks off this.
You guys are really good at names, by the way. I'm just saying.
They all had Zs.
Joel's a really good namer.
I'm also good at setting prices for things, by the way, we discovered after 15 years.
FogBugz is this slow and steady thing that was slowing gaining ground at the time and we had to cut back the company to just Joel and myself. We're working out of his grandmother's basement.
It wasn't a basement.
I thought it was the brownstone.
Bottom two floors. You're right. Ground level. Garden apartment.
It had a nice garden. Yeah, exactly. It was a garden.
It was quaint, but it was just the two of us. Not that much money coming in, but every month we would make a little bit more than the previous month, and so that just started to build.
With FogBugz, you talked about CityDesk a little bit and why it didn't make a lot of sense, but FogBugz is the next thing that came out, it sounds like, from the Fog Creek mini-factory that was there. It still is our flagship product. It's really been the thing that sustained us for a really long time. I'm wondering if, Joel or Michael, you have any thoughts, if you've ever thought about really what is it about FogBugz that's allowed it to be this one big product that's kept this company running.
Wow, that's a good question, I think I'm…
I'm smart, Joel. You hire smart people.
Part of it was that we had the right audience. The important part is not just having the right product, but also being able to market it in some way or get it to the right audience. There were probably 20 bug trackers that you could get in some shape or form when FogBugz first came out. Although, to be fair, probably in those days, those were like Windows apps that you installed and you had to probably get a special server.
Yeah, web-based, there were only a few …
There wasn't a lot of web-based. There was Bugzilla. Yeah, but it was a matter of the blogging that I was doing at joelonsoftware.com, which gave us a big audience of people that might be willing to use it. Then I think the product sort of hit the right mark, because whenever it took an opinion on something, it took the opinion that, I think, made people more successful with their teams. Some of the things that were kind of hard-coded into the way that FogBugz works and is still hard-coded into it today, like the fact that when you resolve a bug, it doesn't just disappear, it goes back to the person who opened it so that they can check if you really fixed it. That came from our knowledge since the beginning, that 90% of the time, the person who's fixing the bug thinks they've fixed the bug. They've actually either fixed something else or for whatever reason, they haven't actually 100% eradicated that bug and so it has to go back to the original person who checks it to make sure that what they think was broken is not broken anymore. That's just built in to FogBugz, and in fact, some of our big competitors have that as a configurable option, as opposed to something that's built in. FogBugz just kind of tricks you into doing the right thing.
Yeah, so it sounds like FogBugz benefited from the fact that the people who built it were the people that would use it.
Yeah, and also that we had … What I was doing on Joel On Software was writing blog posts for developers, saying, if you're wondering, a good way to run a development team or how to manage your little software company or how to beat Microsoft at their own game …
A lot of those were the kind of blog posts that I was writing in those days, so I got a big readership of people that were interested in improving their software development skills.
Right. David, Stack Overflow, I think is really similar to Fog Creek in that you have this connection to your community, it sounds like, in the way that Joel on Software was a big connector for Fog Creek and the community of people that used FogBugz.
I guess an interesting question for me, sorry … What was different about Stack Overflow from what we were doing on FogBugz? I think the biggest … Well, there were a few shifts. One was the shift to continually releasing software, actually, that FogBugz wasn't doing at that time that I think led to a natural process of listening to people, taking their bug reports, tweaking things, showing it to them, seeing what they think, taking more feedback, tweaking it and seeing what they think. The other big thing was that really, really close connection with the community. I think it helped that it was developers building something for developers. That always helps, but listening, having that really close relationship to the people using the thing, to the community, was something that just didn't really exist when we were building FogBugz.
We knew how we used it and we tended to assume, because it was opinionated software that that's how everybody else used it, but I think, looking back, I never really, as a developer on the FogBugz team, had a really good idea of how different customers were using the software in different ways. Versus with Stack Overflow, with just having this open community involved in building the product, having a site where they can go and talk about it and suggest ideas and report bugs, and talk about what they'd like to see fixed. That gave and gives more insight into what's wrong with it, what's not working, what's working well, what do they like about it, what do they not like.
Right. Justin, I'm wondering, as Trello was growing, you know, Trello now has, what, like 10 million users? Is that right?
Eight, we're supposed to say publicly right now, until…
Eight million users as of August.
Until tomorrow.
I'm wondering, same question to you. As you were building Trello, was that part of the thing in your mind, the community of users? Because it's a very different thing, right? Trello is really, of the three, the one that appeals to the biggest community of not developers.
Yeah. We definitely took the stance from the beginning that it wasn't going to be a tool for just developers. We always had that as part of the plan. Doesn't mean developers can't use it, it's just not only for developers, but it's for anybody who's collaborating on something with anybody else and it gives you this nice visual interface for it. That includes us. We are part of that audience. It's not like we're building a tool for grocery store managers and none of us manage a grocery store. We do have some example of how people want to use it and how they do use it. We do try to talk to people. We've always tried to … We get lots of support emails and things like that, but we try to interview people and talk to them about how they're using it and build it up in a way that uses that, but still try to stay true to the original vision of the product, as well, those two things.
I just want to bring up something. When you were talking about Stack Overflow and Trello, I was thinking about how Stack actually was almost a big miss, because when we first started out, in typical fashion, we were a software company. We built the software and then we sold it to people. The initial vision of … We built … Stack Overflow existed and we had this huge developer site, and we had built this community engine and our thought was, oh, great. We'll license this Q&A engine to anyone that wants to build a site for whatever group of people they want. We were headed down that path…
You mean making Stack Overflow into software that you could buy.
Yeah. Basically selling the software behind Stack Overflow and it took us a little bit of time to realize but we did finally realize that the most valuable part of Stack Overflow was this community of developers. It was not the Q&A engine we built. That was cool but the reason the Q&A engine was important was not the code itself, but the thought behind it, the rules and the way that it worked and the things that made it Stack Overflow and not any other Q&A engine. It was opinionated in a way. It's the same story with Trello. Trello, we actually do sell the software, so we're back to selling the software, but it's a very … When we built it, Joel's vision was very contrary to all the other solutions that were out there, the project management solutions. His vision was, let's strip it way down and make it this really simple visual metaphor. Everything out there was always just you have a big database of issues or cases or bugs, call them whatever you want. Leads. Even Salesforce is like this. It's like, you have this giant database and you basically just have to build an interface on top of the database.
Yeah, you look at the app and you see the tables.
Trello was this … It was a totally different, it was like no one's thinking about it like this. Let's try this. That's the valuable part to Trello. It's not that we wrote a bunch of code. Certainly, we have a headstart because we had this big team. They understand the core mission. We have these mobile apps. If somebody tried to build exactly what Trello is, they could do that. There's already a clone of Trello and there's a thousand clones of Stack Overflow. Why are those things successful? I think it's because a lot of times … This is actually attributable mostly to Joel, is that he has a vision for something that people aren't understanding right now. It's about seeing what's going on in the future and coalescing there or trying something. Actually, sometimes it's making an Indian job board, for example, was not that successful. It's our classic mistake, but sometimes you miss and people don't…
Cowboy job board was pretty good.
The what?
The cowboy job board.
Cowboy job board, yeah.
Developing Products for the Long-term
Lots of cowboys out of work these days. Great. As you were talking, I was thinking, contrary to that, when you're starting a product and you're thinking, what do people need right now, and now we're in this interesting place at Fog Creek where we're 15 years in on this product FogBugz, that has become this really big thing and there's a lot of technical debt and it's a very … It's like we're not quite a startup anymore because our product is pretty mature. I was wondering, Jack, if you could talk a little bit about … Also because you were saying, Michael, that the thing about Trello, was that it was very pared down, right? It's really in contrast to Fog Creek, where the product is very involved and it's gone through a lot of different changes and there's a lot of things that you can do in there. I was wondering, Jack, if you could talk a little bit about coming into a company where the product is mature and starting to work on it and what it's like on the other side of that, where you're working with a product that has been around a while.
Yeah, it's really difficult. That's a fundamental question for a legacy product that you're continuing to support. I guess technical debt is really interesting for me because it's a great metaphor to use the word debt and to think of debt as you're borrowing. That's why you have debt. How can you capitalize on that? If you have a lot of old debt and it's just continuing to increase, then you need to pay it down because you don't want to continue to pay interest on that debt. If you want to do new, exciting things, then maybe you take out some debt, and that's okay because you need …
Debt is also leverage.
Yeah, exactly. Debt is leverage. The technical side of things is balancing how much leverage you need vs. how much it's going to crush you ultimately.
Right. One cool thing about Fog Creek, I think, and the reason why we have Stack Overflow and Trello is Fog Creek has always been a place where we've continued to innovate and new products are always coming up all the time. Jack, you're working on a new product right now so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about as opposed to working … You're leveraging your technical debt right now, right, working on this new product. What's that experience like for you?
Yeah, it's interesting. I guess we've been going through a phase of prototyping as well at Fog Creek. Just trying out new ideas, giving ourselves the opportunity to make those same failures that Joel and Michael are alluding to in our past. We tried out a bunch of different new product ideas at the beginning of this year. Some of them seemed really interesting and some of them seemed like this is never going to actually become a product at all. A totally different ballgame. You're not even thinking about those things like technical debt or your previous customers. You're just thinking, how can I make a prototype of this product the quickest way possible, just to prove a concept? You want to make that concept as fast as you can and see that it will fail, if it's going to fail. A lot of them are failures and that's okay.
For us, thinking back to when we were starting Trello 4 years ago, whatever it was, anytime we tried to think ahead, and tried to plan for the future and develop something in a way that was going to scale better or work out better in 2 years when we had … This was when we had literally hundreds of users. Thinking ahead to thousands or whatever users, we ended up doing it wrong. Checklists was a famous story. I've talked about this a hundred times with various people. We had these crazy ideas of how we thought Checklists would work in the future and we built it that way to start.
What were they?
We thought Checklists were going to live on the board and you would
They live in the cards now.
Actually, I forgot about that.
They were templates basically, and you could have a checklist template that you could apply to cards, so if you had the same card that had the same checklist all the time, it'd be real easy to just put that checklist on the card.
I guess we were concerned about … We were building a more complicated model than we needed to.
Yeah, and it ended up backfiring. We had to redo it several times to simplify it. To make it more scalable.
The original reason why you were doing that was because it was something that you would want in 2 years?
Right. We were trying to think ahead and plan ahead for greater scale and more complex use cases and it just backfired.
I think it speaks to, when you have a product that's been around for 15 years, you realize that all the things everyone bitches about when they have to work on a product that's 15 years old, are all there for a reason. There were really good reasons it was done that way. In fact, the first version of whatever you're building, it just doesn't make sense to build it to last for 20 years because who knows if it's going to work at all or if anybody's even going to want it. You make a very simple version of it and it probably has to get rewritten 2 or 3 times, even in the early days, just to get good enough to support a few users, if you have any success whatsoever. Then you'll discover 5-10 years down the line, the technology is kind of old. We had that approach when we started building Trello, right, when we decided what technologies to use.
Yeah, exactly. We only used the latest stuff. We only supported the latest browsers.
That was, was it 5 years ago now? No, when did Trello start?
We started working on it …
Yeah, January 2011. Then launch was September 2011.
Those decisions were being made 4-5 years ago. We were actually saying, let's not support IE. What was it? It would have been IE6.
- It was 7.
IE 7. We don't even have to support IE7. Today, IE8 is not even a thing. IE9 is barely a thing. It's interesting that any work that we would have done then to support IE6 or IE7 would be a complete waste of time today. It wouldn't have had enough value for us.
And it would have prevented us from doing something that exists now.
That's because today, we got 10 million users and back then we had … Sorry, 8. Today, we have 8 million users and back then, we had 17, so all that work to get from 17 to 19 users is nothing compared to … Those extra 2 users today, are meaningless.
When Jack was talking about stuff, when we're talking about failures and stuff get thrown away and that culture of just building something and trying it out and testing it, it's like, even at Trello, we built this whole feature around video chat that we threw out because it was just too janky. It was kind of not work because the WebRTC model that it's based on is just not … It's okay but it's totally not up to speed. Our 8 million users wouldn't have appreciated it. We do that all the time. I don't know if they're still throwing stuff away at Stack Overflow or not. David?
When Joel was talking earlier about, you have to build one to throw away and then rebuild it and so on. I actually think it's … What makes it harder is, you're not going to have to rebuild everything. You're not going to have to throw away everything. You're going to have to throw away about 25%-50% of it and rebuild it and you don't know which 25%-50% until it's too late. Any time you try to guess and overbuild it … I think we see that with Stack Overflow. The things we've had to … I've actually been thinking about, it's been surprising how stable the core of Stack Overflow has been. A lot of the core has really held up, but some systems, we've had to rebuild. We completely rebuilt the reputation system.
And the tag engine.
And the tag system. We wouldn't have known that then, that those were the things we were going to have to rebuild. We haven't really had to rebuild…
Jack did.
Well, we knew we were taking some shortcuts with the tags and stuff but that worked, right? Building the actual tag engine, which is the thing that lets you filter by … Basically generate an arbitrary list of questions based on the tags and some other things. Actually, building that thing was really complicated and you don't want to do that until you're sure you need it. That's one of my favorite hacks that they built early on to handle tag filtering.
Just a LIKE query?
Yeah. Basically. It was, they actually abused SQL server full-text indexing and so they put all the tags … You could have 5 tags in a question. They put 5 tags in one field in the database but full-text treats it like it's a sentence, right? You're doing search on a sentence and you say, contains this word but not contains this word, which works great, except the full-text search doesn't recognize certain characters or it treats them as word breaks because it's detecting sentences. Hyphens or the # in C#, things like that would just be stripped out by the full-text search. They decided, okay, well, we've got these extra characters lying around …
That nobody uses.
That nobody uses. The E with a funny accent over it, or the O with the umlaut.
C# became CE.
Nobody needs those. Yeah, I think that was the O with the umlaut or maybe that was the hyphen that was replaced with that. They just had this switch statement that just replaced characters on the way in and out, and it worked.
Until our first French website.
It worked until we needed to go to the national sites. That part really broke down when we went international, but before then actually, performance broke with the full-text search so we had to half-rebuild it for performance, and then we had to completely get rid of it for internationalization. That was a lot of debt paid down.
How many years did it last?
It was a good shortcut. It lasted a few years. It shortcutted one of the more difficult problems in building. It was just like, yep. Let's just take this quick path and we'll pay it off later.
Missed Opportunities
We've touched a little bit on failures and talking about features that have failed and different kinds of stuff. I want to just run through a couple other products at Fog Creek that you don't know about, or that you may never
Wait, what? Do I know about them?
No, you know about them. We've been building this in secret. You know that box fort in the back of the office? That's what we're actually doing. Okay, so there was a product called Co-pilot that Fog Creek no longer owns. It still exists.
That definitely was not a failure. That was … One, we made a cool documentary out of it, which is super nerdy and difficult to watch now, but it was really fun and also was a cool marketing thing for us. We sold a bunch of DVDs. That site's still up and one of the original creators now owns it and is putting a lot of work into it.
Alright. I'll take that one back.
It's a failure in the sense of if you think about at the time, we had 3 interns build it and it was …
We were probably right at the moment … That's right. Four interns. Right at the moment where LogMeIn did not exist as a company at that point.
Co-pilot is screen-sharing software.
Right. We essentially could have built LogMeIn.
Timing-wise, we were ahead of the curve.
The big mistake there, I think, is that we didn't merchandise it like we did Trello. If the core version had been free and we had charged for a business version, we could have.
That's right.
It was like $5, right?
Yeah, well, it started at $10 a day.
The whole positioning was also very much around tech support. It wasn't quite…
Right. We used it for tech support.
It wasn't like GoToMyPC.
It didn't take the Trello stance of well, you can do anything with it.
…be for everybody.
That would have been a little bit…
The marketing was a little bit of a miss and the pricing was a little bit of a miss and also, there was a point where it would have taken a decent amount of technical work to make it as fast as it needed to be.
Basically, we went as far as we could just leveraging this VNC protocol, and the next thing to do would be to write a Windows display driver or something, and get into the operating system. That would have been ten times as much work as everything we had done up until then and we just couldn't afford to do it, really.
Is that when you know when to pull the plug? When the work outweighs the …
We still haven't pulled the plug, in the sense that the product is still available and you can get it.
Yeah, it was successful but it could have been ridiculously successful.
What about, Michael, you mentioned CityDesk and then there's WebPutty …
Yeah, CityDesk could never have been …
Yeah, CityDesk could not. It imagined a different future.
You had the right idea but there was a fork in the road and you went the wrong direction. If you had gone the other direction, like the CMS thing
You mean web-based.
Right. A web-based CMS could have been huge.
Right, yeah.
…for a desktop-based CMS.
Or even a hosting service that just hosted TypePad or something until they came along and did it themselves.
Right, so how do you know? Is it different for each product, it sounds like? When do you pull the plug on something that's just not working?
When do you pull the plug? I don't know. That's tough.
Don't ask us. We're not experts on…
It's hard but I think we're getting better. We're also getting better at understanding how to build … We were building the right thing but then there were a couple of tweaks we were missing the biggest impact that it could have had. I think we're getting better at that, right? Understanding how to make the biggest impact.
The hard ones, I think, are like … They're like, I don't know who talks about it. They're like zombie companies or zombie projects, where they're just successful enough that you keep pouring resources into it but they're not growing. That's kind of where Co-pilot was. It was a good product. People used it. It made money, but it flatlined and it would grow a little bit but not very much.
We've also got …
That's when it's hard, right? Because if it's an outright failure, then it's just like, okay, great. Shut it down.
Yeah, when it's in the middle … We can also talk a little bit about Kiln, which is …
That was kind of in the middle.
Sort of in the middle too.
The bet there, the miss was, we bet on Mercurial and Git won even though … It was like VHS over Betamax.
I think that was part of it. I think actually, the second mistake we made, and I was there for that, was we … I think actually, it was a mistake to bet so much on FogBugz integration. Tying it so closely to Fogbugz, if it had been built more as a standalone thing, it may have done better.
David, you want to tell us what Kiln is for anybody who might not know?
Kiln is GitHub without the social parts.
It's code reviews and version control.
It's code reviews and version control, that's right. It was built originally on Mercurial, which is like Git but…
Only better.
Slightly simpler/less powerful. Anyway, at the time that it was made, distributed version control, which is what Git and Mercurial and a few others are, was clearly on the rise. Everyone was starting to recognize that this was probably a slightly better model than the centralized version control for certain things for most companies. It's probably the direction people are moving, but you can only really pick one source control system. You never want to have two in your software company. That was the bet that Michael was talking about, that Fog Creek, we looked at it and we said, nope. Mercurial is going to win. It's simpler. It's easier to pick up. It's way harder to shoot yourself in the foot with it. This is where things are going to go, so we're going to build it on Mercurial, and GitHub had bet on Git and …
Git won. We made a second mistake. Yeah, Git won because GitHub won. Where we made a second mistake was, we were like, okay, now we're going to support Git because Kiln does support Git and has for a very long period of time.
Was that Harmony?
Well, our first idea was, we'll support Git. We'll do that work. With a little bit more work, we'll allow companies to be agnostic. Anyone and their team can use either one. We'll do all the hard work on the backend. Like David alluded to, people just pick. A team just picks. There was no market for this. If we had gone out and asked people …
They might have told us.
Yeah, we might have been able to find this out. We did…
I think it's the sort of thing that they would be like, yeah, that sounds great. In theory, but in practice …
Right. Pay for it then and they wouldn't … We accumulated a lot of technical debt because we over-engineered that product. We built something very complicated that we've now ripped out and now we either support Git or we support Mercurial.
There was a lot of opportunity cost of time spent doing both.
Solving a problem that turned out to not really exist, basically.
It sounds like with Kiln, what you're saying is if we had just gone out and asked people, and it sounds like that's a huge thing of what David was talking about…
We just got unlucky a little bit there.
We made mistakes in retrospect. It's easy to see the mistakes in retrospect. Just asking people, I don't know if they would have told you the right answer. Like I said before, I think actually, tying it to FogBugz seemed like a good idea at the time, because it's like, oh, we can leverage all our FogBugz customers and just get them to add Kiln and it'll be this awesome upgrade for FogBugz, but then it didn't … It prevented it from standing on its own as a product and it forced it into some … I think it ended up in weird UI that was trying to look like FogBugz but not, and then eventually, that was abandoned.
It had its own bird.
It still has a bird.
It actually took a lot more work in the initial work to make it plug into FogBugz and act like a plugin.
Right, which is not something we did with Trello.
A one-time initial release, which didn't add that much value for customers, really. I think the clean break of Stack Overflow, the clean break of Trello was just like, no. Build a new thing. Build it separate.
Then you can build an integration.
Then, yeah. Then you'll know if you want integration.
I guess I agree with what David was saying about Kiln and its …
Did you work on Kiln ever?
No, I worked on Kiln briefly, but not to a great extent. One of the things that we missed out on, which Michael was alluding to GitHub, Git winning because GitHub won. It was this social aspect of it. That's exactly what the FogBugz integration with Kiln prevented, right, is that we couldn't grow by becoming this social thing. That's clearly the opposite of what we're doing in Trello, because Trello is saying, hey, let's give this away for free and everyone can use it. You can use it with your friends. That's a great way to grow interest in something.
I think if you look closely at Trello, one of the reasons it wins and it's hard to notice that because we forced it, but we decided early on, the idea is you have your Trello account and with your Trello account, you can access boards that are your own boards, but you can also access boards from other organizations. It's interesting because you can compare it and contrast it to Slack, where with Slack, you have to be part of an organization and you end up with 7 Slack accounts for all 7 organizations that you're in, and if you're not in an organization, you can't use Slack even if you want to communicate with people. In the Slack-y way, there is no way. It's this weird thing that I think we got right in Trello and part of that was looking at Kiln and saying, we got to give you something that creates a social network-type aspect to it here.
It's funny because we've been building out an enterprise product recently at Trello and having a lot of these discussions on how that works and how the security model works and all that. We've been reviewing and thinking a lot about the way we do accounts and the fact that we start user first instead of team first, even though it is a collaboration tool, which is different than most project management collaboration-y tools. You have to create a team and then you join a team, and then you invite people to your team.
We would get into these debates with investors who would say, we only invest in network things with network effect. We would say, we have network effect. They're like, what network effects do you have? We're like, well, you will want to use Trello because you're on these different teams and they're all using Trello for different reasons, and you need to collaborate with all of them. They just didn't see it. They saw it as … Well, some of them saw it and some of them didn't.
It enables both though.
Some of them just didn't buy it.
We hear these stories all the time where you're using Trello at your company, whatever, doing whatever. You get it and you see the value and use. Then you create a board to use with your spouse or whatever and you invite the contractor who's helping you remodel your kitchen. Was actually a real story that we heard.
We did that when we remodelled the kitchen at the Fog Creek office.
Our guy was on that Trello board.
The fact that you can take it and use it with a different group of people without having to create another entity for those people, because you don't need a team for your wife and your contractor or whatever it is. You're just going to have one project once and then that thing can go away when you're done. It feels very heavyweight to have to create that higher level thing and then invite people to it. I think it constrains it to grow in that way, from growing that way.
The Impact of Venture Funding
Great. I'm wondering, one of the differences between Fog Creek and Trello and Stack Overflow, is Fog Creek is totally bootstrapped and has never taken any venture capital. I'm wondering, when talking about failures or different products or just things that haven't hit, or when you're trying to figure out what direction a product is going to go, how, Michael and Joel, do you feel like you're able to take the same kind of risks when you have investors or are you more inhibited, or what are the differences, I guess?
Think about Co-pilot for example. We're bringing in, at some point, say we're bringing in 30 grand a month in revenue for Co-pilot. We're like, wow.
Free money.
This is awesome. Yay. Paid for a couple devs. You're like, yay. But the problem was, that was real money to us because we're a small, profitable software company, right? Then in some ways, I think that prevented … There was a little bit of that prevented you from taking this big leap and saying, hey, let's just make Co-pilot free. Right? Because we got to pay the bills. The cash balance, the bank account can't go below zero. Later on, when we knew we had something that was going be successful and it was going to be big, and we had proven the product a little bit, it was much easier to say, okay, let's go for the gold. Let's build the big thing and do the things that are necessary in order to make this hugely successful.
I think that's maybe the difference also between Trello and Kiln, right? I think Kiln, the decision to tie it to FogBugz was a safe, short-term bet for quickly getting to some revenue, instead of dreaming big. To build GitHub, you have to have a much bigger vision for what this thing is going to do, and like you said, to justify giving it away for free. I don't think you have to be that way if you're bootstrapped, but the tendency is going to be to dream small and be happy with a smaller revenue stream. Of course, then the tendency in venture capital is to go big and bust, right?
There's a downside to it too.
For Trello, it was actually, it keeps a lot of … Somebody could recreate Trello with a decent amount of work, but it's not impossible. It prevents this tiny group of people from doing that, right, because they'd have to charge for it and because it's free.
Actually, there are a lot of people in that category. I remember in the early days of Trello, a lot of clones were showing up and a lot of other Kanban boards for software developers were showing up for some reason. It was a popular thing that year. I would go check them out every single time. There would be a Hacker News headline saying, look at the Trello that I made or something. I would click on it and be like, oh no. I would click through and I would see one of two things. One, I would see terminology from the software development world, and then I'd be like, oh whew. They missed that boat. They would just be like, and we have burndown charts or something that's specific to software developers. I knew they could never meet Trello. More commonly, I would look for the little pricing button and I'd click on that and they'd say, it's only $19.95 a month per person. I'd be like, oh, excellent.
That works with a winner-takes-all product, right? I don't know. Is that the same thing with … Well, I don't know.
They'll make a little lifestyle business if they can support 3 people, like FogBugz.
Yeah, that's true. You make a niche product.
Which was bigger and it supported more people and they could get to that, but they won't make it GitHub type, like this could change the world and everybody knows it and everybody uses it type product, if they're going to charge every single person.
Have you ever given thought to if you had to do it over again, would you have taken money at Fog Creek?
Oh, I wouldn't have taken money at Fog Creek.
You were pretty anti taking money for a while.
For sure, because I think that you can lose control and a bunch of things changed. One is, cases at both Stack Overflow and Trello. We had much better opportunities for the investors, meaning that we got to dictate our terms. We did not lose control. The other thing that changed is there is a very small and limited group of VCs out there who now understand what it means to be entrepreneur-friendly, which didn't exist or we were afraid didn't exist at the time that we started Fog Creek. I still wouldn't have taken VC. If I knew what I know now, I probably would have immediately gone straight to some much better products. In the year 2000, what would you build? First, you build Git.
Yeah, Facebook. There you go.
Twitter? AirBnB?
I literally had a friend who kept explaining something and it didn't make sense to anybody and years later, I realized that what he was describing was Facebook, only instead of saying you have a wall and people come and write on your wall, he said you have a couch and people come and leave things on your couch. I was like, what? This is ridiculous. It was only after Facebook came out that I realized that much.
Who likes people to leave stuff on their couch? Nobody.
What he was describing, other than the fact that he used the word couch instead of wall, was just Facebook.
Hiring Smart People Who Get Stuff Done
Okay, so we are nearing the end of our time here so I just wanted to see maybe if we could go around the table and maybe say like, if you had one piece of advice for somebody starting out …
Have a brilliant idea at the right time and execute on it really well. It's easy. Two things.
Make a website. Make it really popular.
No, it's two things.
Start with a super popular blog.
You have to think about the world and imagine it in a different way in the future, and then prepare for that, right, in order to be a big winner because people aren't … Basically, the idea is not that many people are going to see it that way. It's like AirBnB. You're trying to pitch it a couple years ago. You're like, yeah, it's cool. People rent out rooms in their houses and people are like, ugh. You're crazy.
That's gross.
I'm not going to have some weirdo stay in my house. Then it actually does work in New York and then it starts to take on some of the vacation rental stuff and it actually grows into this big thing and the world changes and the way people trust each other changes. So there's that. The second thing, which is more along the lines of what you guys were saying was find an amazing co-founder who's really smart and amazing person.
Just generally hire good people that are smart and get things done.
That's one thing that you can actually do, right? Go have a brilliant idea is like, good luck. Where do I start? Gather a really good team is something you can actually work at and figure out and solve.
Yeah, hire smart people. Give them room to operate. I think you have to have a lot of optimism, think about what could exist and try it.
We also have tried 15 or 16 things over the years between these 3 companies.
Yeah, when it doesn't work out, think about why.
Three or 4 of them are huge and …
What do you do with the people who fail? Where are they now? Are they in a cave?
We killed them.
There is always an opportunity in the dog-walking of Taco, and washing of my car departments.
Anybody else have any final words?
Happy anniversary.
Happy anniversary, Fog Creek.
Alright. Thank you, guys.
Thank you.
Bye, everyone.


text:
Newsletter Subscribe by CodingInspect | CodeCanyon.
This extension will let you combine e-newsletter subscribe capability into you website online. This extension give talent to guests to subscribe your mailing gadget with out signup. You can come to a decision place the place to turn into your web site, you wish to have to both display popup or simply prior to the footer. This extension is versatile to regulate as in step with your want. It is absolutely customizable from admin. You can alternate the rest you wish to have. If you wish to have to customise feel and appear matching along with your retailer theme you'll be able to set background and textual content colour. If you could have web-designing talents you'll be able to upload, customized CSS as smartly for this text subscribe module. Register customers too can subscribe to this text.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
App Description
Remember the retro chirping sounds of your childhood video game adventures? It's time to turn those sounds into electronic jams with 8-Bit Music Maker! Select a drum track, play with the chiptunes, and make awesome video game themed hit! There are millions of combinations to mix and match and create your own unique sound!
Awesome Features
+ TONS OF SAMPLES - Over 80+ chip tunes, 8-Bit SFX, and drum loops to play with! More on the way with every update!
+ PROFESSIONAL QUALITY - Pro DJ or just looking for a new hobby? Get a professional sound without having professional experience!
+ DYNAMIC MUSIC VISUALIZER - Watch your music jump off the screen with glowing neon colors and shapes that change with the music you're making!
+ MULTITOUCH ENABLED - Unleash your full potential with true multitouch capabilities!
+ HD PARTICLE EFFECTS - Dynamic particle effects dance around your screen to the beat!
+ NEON RETINA GRAPHICS - Glowing user interface makes 8-Bit Music Maker simple and fun to use!
The most incredible app of the year is here to bring childhood video game adventures back into your life! Download 8-Bit Music Maker now!
App Changes
- November 05, 2013 Initial release
- December 07, 2013 Price decrease: $0.99 -> FREE!
- December 08, 2013 Price increase: FREE! -> $0.99


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Lyrics California Girls David Lee Roth
Song Lyrics For California Girls by David Lee Roth
Well East coast girls are hip
Song Fact:The Tune California Girls by David Lee Roth hit number 3 on the U.S. pop charts in March of 1985.
David Lee Roth Artist Fact:David Lee Roth's final album of the 1980s was in 1988 with, Skyscraper. It was the final album to feature Steve Vai as he left the band the next year. The album made it as far as number six on the US charts....Read David_Lee_Roth Bio
More 80's Song Lyrics
Lyrics Fresh Kool and the Gang
Lyrics Do What You Do Jermaine Jackson
Lyrics Born In The U.S.A. Bruce Springsteen
Lyrics Private Dancer Tina Turner
Lyrics Who's Zoomin' Who Aretha Franklin
Lyrics Fortress Around Your Heart Sting
Lyrics Penny Lover Lionel Richie
Random 80's Artist Bio


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Former investment banker Interloper is a rising star in the financial blogosphere. He reads fiction "incessantly" and is convinced that well-written stories can make you a better investor: "The primary lesson of fiction is learning 'this is how people act' when they're scared, confident, happy, determined or demoralized... it provides a competitive advantage for investors by providing wider context for decision making."
Conservative investor John Gerard Lewis has no interest in tumbling around in this turbulent market. He's out to achieve broad index returns at lower risk, and here's how he does it.
Cullen Roche on macro causes for the big gold GLD, -0.19% breakdown.
Sanford Bernstein's Toni Sacconaghi says now's the time for Apple AAPL, -0.09% to start paying a dividend to attract value investors.
Amazon AMZN, +0.63% stock is struggling, and according to Mike McDermott could drop all the way down to $80. Greg Harmon has the technical take: "A fall below the 170 level looks imminent." A similar take is here.
Of stop-loss orders and Winston Churchill, from Tadas Viskanta.
Paul Baiocchi of IndexUniverse delves beyond the cost of popular aggregate bond ETFs AGG, +0.05% and BND, +0.06%.
Theo Francis at Footnoted finds that McGraw-Hill MHP, +0.00% execs, ahead of the company's planned split, are improving their own layoff benefits: "And by 'improving,' we mean "doubling to almost tripling."
Michael Arold notes that financial stocks were particularly strong yesterday - should we read something into that?
If you want exposure to a certain sector or theme, how should you decide to go with an ETF or individual stocks? Here's how Roger Nusbaum does it, with an example from the farmland theme and Caterpillar CAT, +0.36%.
This commentary does not constitute individualized investment advice. The opinions offered herein are not personalized recommendations to buy, sell or hold securities.


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Qualifying for the Aid & Attendance Benefit
Aid & Attendance is a tax-free pension that is paid monthly to qualifying veterans who are in need of assisted living, nursing home, or homebound care. Depending on the marital status of the veteran, the monthly pension amount may vary as follows:
There are three main qualifications for the benefit, and can be remembered with "the three Ms"
A wartime veteran must have served 90 consecutive days of active military duty, and at least one day of active duty during one of the following wartime periods:
He must also have received other than a dishonorable discharge.
The veteran or surviving spouse must be certified by a doctor as needing assistance with their activities of daily living (ADLs). Acceptable ADLs that the VA will reimburse for are care for help with:
Medication management
Personal hygiene
Prompting (reminders)
Sitting and standing
Activities of daily living such as meal preparation, household chores, or transportation are not considered "qualified" activities of daily living. For other resources for help with these activities, see our resource page.
The veteran or surviving spouse must be spending their entire monthly income (Social Security, rental income, pension income) on their care costs each month. Qualified care costs include:
Assisted Living rent (including care packages, etc)
Nursing home rent (including care packages, etc)
Home caregiver costs
Adult foster care rent
Monthly health insurance premiums (Medicare, BCBS, etc.)
Other monthly expenses outside of the list above are not countable for VA purposes.
It is also important to note that their are asset level requirements when applying for the benefit. Because the limits are determined on a case-by-case basis, we recommend you contact us for more information regarding this qualification.
Getting Started
Once we determine that your meeting all the qualifications, we can begin the process of applying.


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Multi-award-winning composer, harpist and curator
Ailie Robertson (b.1983) is a multi-award winning composer, performer and creative curator whose work crosses the boundaries of traditional and contemporary music. Winner of The Sofia International Composition Competition, the SCO iCompose Prize, and 2nd in the Oslo Grieg Competition, Ailie has received commissions, awards and residences from Creative Scotland, Enterprise Music Scotland, the CCA, Culture Ireland, Celtic Connections,EIFF, and CALQ Montreal. She was chosen for the 2016/17 RSNO Composer's hub, awarded a BBC Performing Arts Fellowship and was winner of the 'Achievement in New Music' prize at the inaugural New Music Scotland Awards.
Ailie Robertson from Edinburgh is widely regarded as one of Scotland's leading young traditional musicians. A five-time National Mod Gold Medalist and a BBC Radio Scotland Young Traditional Musician of the Year finalist, Ailie also won first prize at the inaugural London Harp Competition, was judged best overall musician at the Edinburgh Competition Festival and won the St Albans New Roots award. Her debut solo album 'First things first' won the 'Live Ireland' award for 'Best Instrumental Cut of the Year'. She has performed and taught all over the world, released 3 solo CDs and published 7 volumes of harp sheet music.
"Innovative, assured and beautiful...her harp exerts an undeniable and inexorable tug at the heart strings" - Scotland on Sunday
"Flair, precision and consummate skill, plus passionate drive and gentle reserve. There's many clichés you could use such as 'old head on young shoulders', and 'talent beyond her years' – but they don't come close. Inspired genius." - Folkwords
"a player of Ailie's class has the ability to tear your heart out" - Maverick
"Robertson's genius is in straddling the Irish and Scottish traditions with a fresh-faced and utterly bearable lightness of being." - Irish Times
'She is a superior musician, understands the tradition, has her own style and is at home in trad as in the jazz idiom. The amount of major awards she has won for her harp playing would fill this column. The awards don't tell the story. This is wonderful. A major new star' - LiveIreland.com
The organisation is dedicated to bringing new and innovative work from both established and developing composers to wide audiences, and increasing the profile of New Music at home and internationally.
Projects have 3 key themes
1) To commission exciting, innovative new work from a diverse range of composers.
2) To work in a collaborative way, across artforms, to connect artists, writers, dancers and musicians in exploring new processes.
3) To explore new partnerships with venues and organisations around the UK who may not previously have worked with new music
We're always interested in finding new people to collaborate with.
Previously we've made projects for Archives, Schools, Community Ensembles, Music Ensembles, Theatre and Dance, so if you have an idea, or even if you want us to come up with an idea for you, please do get in touch.We are experienced in project management, so if the project needs budgets, funding applications or other organistional tools, that's no barrier to us working together.


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2 November 2008
Most of my friends know I have an addiction.
Actually, I suppose I have many . . . antiques, thrift stores, bargain shopping in general, shoes (that's a big one—still working to claim control over it), and . . . eBay. I began shopping on eBay way back in the year 2003, when I first got Kyle's hand-me-down computer and we called it mine. Kyle had been shopping (and even occasionally selling) on eBay for a couple of years, and I knew a bit about it. But, I'd never really gotten involved. Until I had my own machine, that is, and got a little braver with the internet. It didn't take long for me to learn what good deals I could find on (shoes) the cool stuff I collect . . . from all over the world! No longer confined to my local area thrift stores to shop for (shoes) neat Mickey stuff, or items useable in costuming, I was off and running.
Now, many years later, I have the habit well under control. I no longer spend hours at a time, or lose sleep searching for (shoes) items I really don't need. In fact, sometimes days or even weeks go by without me bothering with (shoes) it at all. But, I do use it to find (shoes) things I need and/or can use in my business. And, as such, it has become a very valuable source.
Tonight, after a weekend at faire, I logged into my eBay account and realized I'd reached a noteworthy milestone: I've earned my Red Star. I have a "positive feedback" rating of 1000—and with zero negatives! That means I've completed successful, happy transactions, either as seller or (more often) as buyer, with 1000 unique individual other eBayers. (Multiple transactions with the same eBayer can earn you comments but not points.)
My photo is rather blurry, 'cause I snapped the picture in the truck on the way home. I know it's a little bit goofy, but I'm proud.
And, I'm still working on the shoes thing.


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JOHANNESBURG, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Shares in Brait SE, a South African investment heavyweight in which tycoon Christo Wiese owns about a third of its stock, slumped 6 percent on Wednesday in what one fund manager said was a knock-on effect from a sell-off in Steinhoff.
Wiese is the top shareholder in Steinhoff, which dropped nearly 70 percent after revealing accounting irregularities and its CEO quit, shocking investors and tarnishing Wiese image as one of South Africa's most respected stewards of shareholder capital. (Reporting by Tiisetso Motsoeneng and TJ Strydom; Editing by James Macharia)


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Hi, All.
We have a new feature for you here from Bad-Ass Faeries editor and author L. Jagi Lamplighter. Reposted her with her permission these post are a bit of shared wisdom from Mab, the wind elemental from her Prospero's Daughter trilogy. Mab also appears in her BAF stories "Of Plunder and Soul" from Bad-Ass Faeries: Just Plain Bad and the "On Rocky Ground", which will appear in the upcoming Bad-Ass Faeries: It's Elemental. These posts originally appear at www.ljagilamplighter.com.
Hey Folks,
Mab Boreal here. You know me—the Northeast Wind who works for Prospero Inc. as a company gumshoe.
It has come to my attention that you humans are woefully uninformed about the dangers of the supernatural world. You walk around all day, taking absolutely no precautions. Some of you are so crazy, you even go looking for trouble.
Well, I'm here to tell you: Don't do that!
In the hopes of saving even one of you from an elf-related death—or worse—I am going to post a page of my journal every week.
Read. Pay attention. And maybe you'll live.
This just in: Mustardseed, V.P. of Prospero, Inc. Priority Contracts, asked for some info on Tsukumogami. Apparently, these supernatural perps have been causing some trouble for Prospero Inc. employees in our Kyoto branch. So, I'm gonna start with them.
Name: Tsukumogami
Description: When Japanese household objects—such as mirrors, umbrellas, etc.—make it to their 100th birthday, they wake up and become animate.
Where To Find It: Japan
Frequency: As common as one hundred year old items.
Danger Level: Various. If you want to stay alive, don't get near 'em.
Mab's Eye View: The people of Japan have known about this phenomenon since the 10th Century, and yet they do not destroy all their old objects. Are they crazy? Are they begging for trouble?
Let me tell you. In the next few weeks, I'll tell ya about various tsukumogami, and I'll share some hair-raising tales that will make you shy away from antiques ever after!
has made the preliminary ballot for the Bram Stoker Award
with his novella Three Chords of Chaos: A Bad-Ass Faerie Tale
This novella covers the ongoing tale of Gorge,
Chamber's master of music magic from Way of the Bone (Just Plain Bad)
and Faerie Ring Blues (In All Their Glory).
All our best and congrats to James.
Our buddy and fellow Bad-Ass Faeries author, CJ Henderson is battling lymphoma, a donation site has been created to help defray his medical costs. If you can donate, great; if not, please boost the signal where you can. And always, please keep CJ and his family in your prayers.
Hello, everyone!
Here is an opportunity for all our loyal fans to help us compile the first ever BEST OF collection in the Bad-Ass Faeries series.
Between now and December 31st read (or re-read) the Bad-Ass Faeries anthologies (Bad-Ass Faeries, Just Plain Bad, In All Their Glory) and select the best story or stories from each volume. You can vote for more than one story, but can vote for each story only once. If one of your selections matched those of the editors, you could win a copy of THE BEST OF BAD-ASS FAERIES. (US winners to receive an autographed print copy, winners outside of the US to receive an ebook copy.)
To enter visit the contest page:
a Rafflecopter giveaway
You can find excerpts of each story on the Bad-Ass Faeries home page:
You can find the books on Amazon at:
Please do spread the word!
Good luck, and Get Your Bad-Ass On!
The Editors,
Danielle Ackley-McPhail
L. Jagi Lamplighter
Lee C. Hillman
Jeffrey Lyman
Hi, All!
Yes, I know, it has been unconsciounably long, but the good news is that work has again begun on the next Bad-Ass Faeries anthology. If you have submitted, you should be hearing from us soon.
The Editors
Danielle Ackley-McPhail
L. Jagi Lamplighter
Lee C. Hillman
Jeffrey Lyman
To celebrate we have this cool contest going:
To win an autographed copy of The Redcaps' Queen, by Danielle Ackley-McPhail, come up with your own, original derby name.
Post it here, along with your real name for cross reference, then follow the below link to log your entry into Rafflecopter.
For idea and to see if your name is already taken, visit www.twoevils.org/rollergirls/. Please only post original names that are not in use.
To enter: a Rafflecopter giveaway
We also have two GoodReads giveaways going on:
Stand by for more to come!
Unfortunately, one of the editors had some health issues last year that resulted in surgery at Thanksgiving. The good news is the collection is still on, the bad news is we are very much behind. No decisions have been made and we have only just begun to review the submission.
We hope for a March 2013 publication date and anticipate authors will start hearing from us again after May. Thank you for your patience.
Thank you,
Danielle Ackley-McPhail
L. Jagi Lamplighter
Lee C. Hillman
Jeffrey Lyman
- Current Mood: busy
- Current Mood: bouncy
And Bad-Ass Faeries 2: Just Plain Bad is 14 overall.
Way to go, guys!
For those not familiar with Fictionwise, you can get ebooks for virtually every platform from this site.
Danielle Ackley-McPhail
- Current Mood: bouncy


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Registration for Day Camp 2019 is now full.
Our Annual Summer MBC Day Camp will be held July 22ND-26th 2019.
Markham Bible Chapel (MBC) Day Camp is a place where kids and teens learn about the Bible in a fun, caring, and safe environment. Each year, we are excited to share the good news about the Lord Jesus Christ with the children and hope that you can join us again this year!
Registration is now full.
Camp Dates: Monday, July 22nd-26th, 2019
Time: 9am-4pm
Cost: $95 per camper
Ages: SK-Grade 9 (as of September 2019)
Kids Camp
For kids entering SK-Grade 6 in September 2019. Campers rotate through interactive Bible lessons, Bible verse activities, engaging Crafts and fun-filled Games. They also get to visit the Shekel shop!
Teen Camp
For teens entering Grade 7-9 in September 2019. The teens engage in meaningful discussions about the Bible, faith, truth, and our relationship with God. They also have loads of laughs and fun with our wacky teen-approved games and challenges, crafts/art, and of course - the Shekel shop!
What to bring:
Running shoes
Put on sunscreen before you come
Peanut/nut-free lunch and a drink
Campers with Epi-pens must bring them each day and must wear them in a pouch or belt
A change of clothes for the younger campers if you think they may need it
What to leave at home:
Electronic devices
Food containing peanuts or nuts
Additional Information:
A morning and afternoon peanut/nut-free snack is provided to each camper. Should your child have additional allergies, please send an alternative snack for them.
There is a FREE Parents' Night BBQ on Thursday July 25th! Bring the whole family!
Weather permitting, we will have a Water Day during the afternoon of Friday, July 26th complete with jumping castle and lots of water fun games!
Please note, we do our best to accommodate requests for friends to be in the same group. The children do travel through the day in groups based on age, so if the friends are the same age, they will be together.
Before and after care is not available.
Please send any questions to: firstname.lastname@example.com
If you require financial assistance, please click the button below.
We have lots of fun at camp, but we could not be more serious when it comes to your child's safety. This is why we have developed "Plan to Protect" - our unique program that requires each staff member to undergo a strict acceptance process including police checks and detailed interviews.
We are here to answer your questions before, during and after camp. Keep these numbers and emails handy and you will always have access to the answers you need.
*Please note that there is no staffed office at the church, so the best way to reach the directors is through email.
Email: email@example.com
Web: www.MarkhamBibleChapel.org
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Commentary on Comments
Thanks and keep reading!!!
Welcome to TwoMindsFull, where bestselling co-authors Donna Grant and Virginia DeBerry's joint stream of consciousness will hold forth on life, writing, life, books, shoes,life, picks & peeves and---oh yeah did we say life? You can visit our website deberryandgrant.com and email us at firstname.lastname@example.com


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We do more online and on the go than ever before thanks to convenient technology. It's extremely easy to use online or mobile banking services to share our information using laptops, tablets, and especially smartphones. With this convenience comes a responsibility to protect yourself from ID theft which can cause credit problems.
Security Threats & Securing Your Accounts
Threats to your identity can use advanced deception like fake web pages or malicious links in email messages. Plus, there are still traditional dangers like phishing scam phone calls or info being stolen from wallets and discarded mail. Here is a list of preventative measures you can take to protect yourself from becoming a victim of ID theft.
ID Theft Prevention Tips:
- Use strong passwords.– Be sure that all your computers, tablets, and mobile devices require a password or a pin to access them. Use a different password for each of your online accounts. Google suggests that passwords be at least 8 characters long, not contain personal information or names, and include upper and lower case letters, numbers, and special characters.
- Avoid suspicious websites and links – Be careful when you click any hyperlinks. Emails and websites can be made to look like they belong to your bank or other legitimate organizations. If you notice any inconsistencies, do not click links and do not input your username or password on unfamiliar login screens. To know for certain if a request from an organization is genuine, proceed by accessing their official web page. By typing a reliable web address and navigating through their site menu you eliminate the risk having an account breach.
- Do not give out personal information – Much like the suspicious websites mentioned above, many identity thieves will attempt to pose as a bank or credit card company employee over the phone. No legitimate organization will call you and solicit personal details such as a PIN number or social security number. If you suspect a call is authentic, get the caller's credentials, hang up, and call the phone number listed on bank statements or on the credit card.
- Shred physical documents – Thanks to online and mobile banking options, it can be easy to forget that your private information still travels through physical mail. Be sure to shred account statements, bills, and other correspondence that may contain sensitive personal information before throwing it out. It's very common for consumers to need debt assistance due to throwing out credit card application mailers.
- Monitor your accounts and your credit report.– Keeping an eye out for suspicious activity on all of your accounts is the best possible protection. Additionally, be sure to pull your credit report at least once a year to ensure that no fraudulent accounts have been opened in your name. You can do this for free once a year at www.AnnualCreditReport.com.
Recovery Resources
Identity theft often results in stolen money as well as damage to your credit due to fraudulent accounts opened in your name. Taking these preventative measures is a good start, but it is up to you to report any suspicious activity to your bank or other creditors. Without quick reporting, you'll be responsible for personal credit card debt or other issues that arise due to ID theft. It may also become necessary to contact local law enforcement in extreme cases. Visit www.IdentityTheft.gov for more tips, resources, and information about victim's rights in cases of identity theft.


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Beauty Review : MAC Stone Lipstick | Review \ Swatches | Oct 201511/03/2015 08:00:00 PM
Hi guys.
It is the time of the year again where everybody rocking on dramatic dark lips and bold color. And it is my favorite makeup season of all time. Fall or autumn makeup trend.
If you don't know me my makeup style is pretty dramatic and bold. So when the fall season comes I have never been so excited to rocking my favorite dark lip colors.
So recently, I just discovered that I've been really into nude, Not your everyday usual kind of nude, It is grey nude.
I noticed this grey color obsessed since I got my Colopop Tootsie lipstick which I got months ago and I cannot stop hoarding more that kind of grey-ish tone color.
I bought Stone lipstick by MAC the other day and it is unbelievable. I stopped buying MAC like forever but this time I couldn't resist the color. Initially I was thinking to grab the lip pencil, but you know what, I just grabbed the lipstick instead. Talking bout though decision here.
Stone is a very dark grey mid tone brown which is very unique color. If you are a 'normal' nude lip person this is not something that you will wear everyday because of they grey tones that it has it is almost look too 'gothic' or hipster for everyday color.
Stone is a matte finish and if you have tried any of MAC matte range, it is so comfortable. It doesn't dry out your lips like the liquid lipstick does (which driving me insane) . It is creamy enough to glide on your lips but leaves you comfortable experience to feel the matte formulation. So, literally i'm bad at describing things so if you have chance to go to MAC store you just grab the tester and feel it yourself. I promise you, it is the most comfortable matte lipstick i have ever tried. Well at least for now.
If you are interested to buy, MAC also has their online store where you can shop directly.
So what do you think of this grey lip trend? You like it or not? Do let me know.
(Pic credit to Google)
Price: RM74
Availability: MAC Stores and online
MAC Store: http://www.maccosmetics.com.my/product/shaded/168/310/Products/Lips/Lipstick/Lipstick/index.tmpl
Review and business inquiries, contact me:
kissess & hugs


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someone just brought bouchon macaroons as a treat to the office. and they reminded me of these pretties (@calstar brought to the office last year).
can i please special order a pantone swatch book that's actually just these macaroons on a carabiner? can i live inside this box? can i decorate my whole house in this lette macaroon color palette? i would lick every wall, willy wonka-style.
i lucked out last easter and bought a bag of target plastic easter eggs that were this exact scheme. i searched and searched online and sadly, i think they were limited edition. but maybe someday i'll post a pretty picture of them for you!
looking at these makes me excited that spring is in the air!


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Pictorials & Separate Photos featured by Tijana Jončić
Pictorials & Separate Photos: Natalia Semenchenko (by Valery Nezimaev); International Models: Agata Iskow, Annika Krum, Daniela Cecconello, Zsuzsanna Ripli, Olga Gerakidou, Tijana Jončić, Susan Aiserman (by Robi Zuchniewicz, Nicolas Olonetzky, Marcus Luconi, Pál Nánási, Dimitris Delis, Rino Gropuzzo, René de Haan); Dana Arsentieva (by Mikhail Korolev); Playmate of the Year Contestants: Colleen Shannon, Melanie Eder, Anastasia Tregubova, Irina Beliakova, Marina Umerenkova, Stéphanie Noëlle, Polina Zhuravleva, Ekaterina Pogadaeva, Elena Smirnova, Tina Eder, Hiromi Oshima
Information on Unofficial Playboy Statistics Pages is for viewing and personal information only. This site is not affiliated with Playboy Enterprises, Inc.
You may report errors and omissions on this page to G1's Administrator. They will be examined and if approved will be included in a future update.


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Our close knit team has a real family feel. We have complementary skills and use them collaboratively to assist clients, no matter how complex the matter.
Chris Edwards FCA - Director
Managing director and experienced general practitioner, Chris, qualified in 1983 setting up his own practice six years later to enable him to provide his own unique style of client care and service. Chris remains as dedicated to the success of the firm's clients as the day he started.
Chris is a member and past President of Eckington Rotary Club. Away from his professional duties Chris enjoys fly fishing and the occasional Belgian beer.
Martin Edwards ACA - Director
Martin is a qualified chartered accountant who joined the firm in 2014, becoming a director in July 2015. His role is not just a general practitioner but includes practice management and development of systems for the firm's clients.
The keen footballer and cyclist is also Secretary of Sheffield & District Society of Chartered Accountants and is a previous Chair of Sheffield and District Young Chartered Accountants Group.
Stuart Brandreth FCA
Chartered accountant, Stuart, has more than 40 years professional experience, joining Chris Edwards in 2004, after running his own firm for 16 years. He enjoys working with clients, particularly on personal tax matters and handles our technical queries.
Away from the office Stuart can be found watching anything competitive and is also a keen cyclist.
Lewis Banton
Our client manager, Lewis, joined the firm in 2000 and has since helped hundreds of clients achieve their financial goals. His role includes general accountancy work, bookkeeping and company secretarial duties.
Lewis is a competitive runner and represents Clowne Roadrunners Club. When he's not pounding the pavements, he also enjoys spinning the pedals of his bike having recently completed a coast to coast ride in a single day!
Stephen Parker
Stephen joined the firm in May 2017 and is currently training towards his ACCA qualification. Stephens's responsibilities include general accountancy work and VAT return and management accounts preparation.
When not revising for his exams Stephen is a keen sports fan and keeps himself fit.
Ruth Edwards - Director
Administrator, Ruth, always has a smile ready to greet visiting guests. As Chris' wife, she's a staunch supporter of the firm and has played an active role in our success since 1994.
Ruth loves meeting clients and administers the payroll and provides bookkeeping services for several of our clients. Ruth loves to travel and see new places, the colder the better!
Sue Cullen
Sue became part of our growing team in late 2017 to assist with the day to day running of the office and admin duties.
Outside of work Sue enjoys walking and spending time with her family.
If you would like to speak to one of our team directly, telephone (01246) 570581 or send us an email via our contact us page.


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"Foreign and Insular Statistical Reports of Countries and Cities. Yearly and Monthly" is an article from Public Health Reports (1896-1970), Volume 18.
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Adopt A Stud
Just in time for Valentines day...
During this month of love and romance,
the Mission Committee is excited to announce that we have
adopted TWO STUDS for the congregation!
Are you on board? Come help us dress these studs in support of Habitat for Humanity's 2014 Faith Build!
Habitat for Humanity partners with local congregations to help build safe, decent and affordable homes for families in need. A new, creative way to help with this project is their "Adopt-A-Stud" program.
Each 2x4 stud can be adopted for a donation of $200. (SHPC is receiving two studs in thanks for our $500 gift given to Habitat for Humanity as part of our year-end 2013 mission giving.) These studs will be used in the construction of the 2014 Faith Build this spring.
Adopted studs are to be decorated with original art, quotes, bible verses, prayers, blessings, etc. We will have the studs available at church to decorate for two Sundays (Feb. 9 and Feb. 16) before they are retrieved for framing into the Faith Build. After framing, Habitat will be hosting a "Stud Finder Open House" event for us to come out and see everyone's artwork and to find our custom studs.
Come help us dress up these studs in a way that only SHPC can!
In February, as part of our ongoing Spotlight on Mission program to highlight service opportunities in our community as well as mission programs that are supported financially by Southern Heights, the Development Director for Habitat for Humanity, Stephanie Novacek, will join us in worship on Feb. 9th.


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I paint things – everything, more than likely than the average person. So when I was given the chance to test drive the Benjamin Moore Aura paint, I was all too excited. I didn't have time to paint an entire room; however, I did paint a shelf that I had been wanting to re-purpose for my son's room over his sink. I was very pleased to note that the coverage of the paint was great. I used a paintbrush and a foam brush for applying the paint and was very pleased with how it covered the shelf.
Although I know it's not good for me, I love the smell of fresh paint and the Aura paint doesn't have this smell simply because it's not the average paint. It's an environmentally friendly paint that meets and exceeds industry standards for being an eco-friendly product and comes with a promise. It's It comes with a 'Green Promise'.
The Green Promise® designation is Benjamin Moore's assurance that its environmentally friendly coatings meet and exceed the strictest industry standards, while also delivering the premium levels of performance you expect from Benjamin Moore.
The color palette to chose from is not small for the Aura paint – it's very large. I'm sure there would be a color that you'd find for the project you're looking to conquer. It's stated that no matter what color you're wanting that you'll never need more than two coats as it comes with an exclusive color lock technology.
Take a look at the features the Matte paint has to offer (also available in Eggshell,Satin and Semi-Gloss finishes):
Aura Waterborne Interior Paint – Matte Finish
- Never more than 2 coats in any color
- Mildew resistant
- Color Lock technology for exceptional color
- No color rub-off
- Stains wash off easily
- Easy application
- Paint and primer together
- Seamless touch-ups
- Excellent in high-traffic areas
- Long-lasting, fresh look
- Easy cleanup
I know that I would much rather buy a paint that is going to provide me great coverage rather than an average color – simply because average could end up costing me a lot more money in the long run. Let's not forget that the primer is including in this paint – which is also a money saver and a time saver. I would highly suggest you take home a sample of the Benjamin Moore Aura paint to see if this paint may be just the paint you've been searching for.
Head on over to the Benjamin Moore website and see all their products, inspirations and read about their 'How to's.'
*As a BzzAgent I was provided a sample of Benjamin Moore Aura paint to facilitate my review. All opinions are 100% mine.
2 Responses to "Benjamin Moore Aura Paint Review"
How timely – I am in the market for paint for my living room and had justed started to look into what "green" options are out there after reading so much about how regular paint is so toxic. I'll have to go to my local BM store and check out the colors in the Aura line. Thanks!
MD- I will warn you – this paint is NOT cheap. Not only that, but I learned that I did NOT like the paint for needing to paint a wall in my living room….which I did just a week or so ago (4/2013). I ended up so frustrated that I went to Home Depot and got a Behr paint. You have to work with the Aura paint carefully. It dries super fast – so if you think you're going to be interrupted – you'll be wasting your time because the paint job will come out looking like crap. Of course – maybe the problem lies with me – but I am not so sure of that being the case after hearing what a professional painter had for an experience.


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call now
Whether you're planning to sell your home in the next few months or just studying up for that eventuality, there's no time like now to prepare.
First - watch this interview with Felicia Grady for 5 Things Home Sellers should NEVER do?
5 Things Home Sellers Should Never Do
Next, here are some common steps to selling your home:


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Options Available
Living Free of Stress and Limitations
Here at The Conscious Creative we've been very lucky to come across some amazing techniques and tools that have allowed us to change our relationship with stress, emotions and limiting or negative thinking. How that actually looks in our lives is that we experience lots of benefits such as:
- Living Presently
- Peace
- Contentment
- Freedom
- Joy
- Clarity
- Creativity
- Alertness
That in turns leads to:
- Heightened Focus
- Greater Productivity and Effectiveness
- Better Communication and Relationships
- Being at Ease and Comfortable in Your Own Skin
- Increased Confidence
- Authenticity
- Staying Connected to Your Passion
We're big believers too that happiness is what makes a life successful, rather than happiness being dependent on perceived success.
And what happens when you experience all this for yourself? Naturally you want to share it with others, so we're keen to share how seemingly small changes in our lives can change the way we live, think and feel. We're passionate too about helping you to focus on what it is you want most from life and how you want to live it.
So what's on offer and what's right for you?
One Day Workshop: "Creating the Life You Want Free of Stress."
This is great if you want to dip your toe in the water and hear our tips and tools.
Mind Detox Method / Coaching
Work with us one to one.
The Bright Path Ascension Meditation
If you're going to pick one thing go for this! Whether you learn with us or other teachers in your area this is the most powerful technique we are passionate about sharing with people!
Corporate Training
We also offer bespoke training packages for your workplace.


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Remodel your Code with Intel® Advisor XE
- Overview
- Resources
It has become imperative for software developers to exploit parallelism inherent in their applications. This webinar shows how Intel® Advisor XE helps incorporating threading into applications easier by allowing developers to model parallelism.
Thanks to the multi-core era, it has become imperative for software developers to exploit parallelism inherent in their applications. Intel® Advisor XE helps incorporating threading into applications easier by allowing developers to model parallelism. It inculcates in software developers a disciplined approach to exploiting parallelism. Intel® Advisor XE obviates guesswork and trial-and-error based approaches, and instead guides developers to confidently model and transform serial portions of code to parallelized versions in a step by step methodical fashion.
The presenter will introduce the Intel® Advisor XE tool and demonstrate a structured approach to exploiting parallelism that Intel® Advisor XE facilitates. Attendees of this webinar will gain:
- Understanding of the importance of approaching parallelization problems based on measured data rather than guesswork
- The importance of performing parallelism modeling using Intel® Advisor XE annotations and analyses so that correct portions of your software can be judiciously selected and parallelized
- Knowledge of resources, including a clear step-by-step process, for implementing threading in software
Benchmark results were obtained prior to the implementation of recent software patches and firmware updates intended to address exploits referred to as "Spectre" and "Meltdown". Implementation of these updates may make these results inapplicable to your device or system.
Software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel® microprocessors. Performance tests, such as SYSmark and MobileMark, are measured using specific computer systems, components, software, operations and functions. Any change to any of those factors may cause the results to vary. You should consult other information and performance tests to assist you in fully evaluating your contemplated purchases, including the performance of that product when combined with other products. For more information, see Performance Benchmark Test Disclosure.


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10k Gold Turkish Eye Studs (Singles)
Orders over $150 qualify for FREE standard shipping
This protection evil-eye protection earring reminds you of the wisdom to look within. A hugely popular symbol because we could all use a talisman to ward off evil. Add it to a second hole or buy two to get double the protection.
10k yellow gold
Sold as singles!
Push-back stud
More from this collection
As Seen On
What People Are Saying About Us
"My fabulous Suetables just arrived! I am in love with this line of jewelry! The designs are insane and the positive quotes within them give them unexpexted depth and meaning!"
Nicole Sassaman
Beverly Hills - Author, television host
"I'm in love with my @suetables necklace...haven't taken it off since I bought it. Thank you!"
Monika Schnarre
Los Angeles - Model, actress, and television host
"I've been a fan of Suetables for quite a while now…"
Enuka Okuma
Actress (Caught, Rookie Blue, Madison)
"Just wanted to say that we LOVED our bracelets! I will get pictures this weekend of us wearing them. Thanks again so much for supporting our team this way!"
Cheryl L. Bernard
Canadian Olympian – Curling
"Love being the face of a line I genuinely love. Yay @Suetables"
Rachel Skarsten
Actress (Reign, Lost Girl, 50 Shades of Grey)
"Such lovely pieces! I love em:) Thanks so much"
Lauren Lee Smith
Actress (Frankie Drake, Mutant X, CSI: Crime Scene Investigation)


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In its energy and complexity, football captures the spirit of America better than any other cultural creation on this continent, and I don't mean because it features long breaks in which advertisers get to sell beer and treatments for erectile dysfunction. It sits at the intersection of pioneering aggression and impossibly complex strategic planning. It is a collision of Hobbes and Locke; violent, primal force tempered by the most complex set of rules, regulations, procedures and systems ever conceived in an athletic framework.
Soccer is called the beautiful game. But football is chess, played with real pieces that try to knock each other's brains out. It doesn't get any more beautiful than that.
via online.wsj.com
Today seems like an appropriate day to revisit this oldie but goodie.


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Cory and Randee had a day that was fulllllll of SO MUCH love. It was a beautiful day overflowing in laughter, happy tears and joy. It was so touching to be a part of all the little moments. I can't say enough about the relationship that these two have with their families and as a photographer, being able to capture the emotions that poured out on this day was such an honour. There were so many subtle glances, looks of pride and bursts of laughter that I had a hard time choosing between all the images to feature as they all brought back such great feelings! We're so excited that Randee's brother is getting married this upcoming week too and we get to hang out with her side of the family all over again!
Seriously...such a great day. We are so excited for these two!


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Mango is a leading provider of Data Science and R training
Data and data analysis have become important tools for business success. To make the most of your data, the capabilities of your team are vital. Mango has developed a range of training courses to help your teams embed and encourage best practice data usage.
Every year our trainers travel the world teaching more than 1000 people of all experience levels. Importantly, Mango trainers don't just teach the theory; we want participants to know the applications of what they're learning.
Our proven training methodology and post-course support has helped companies such as eBay, GSK, HSBC, BP and many others gain actionable insight into their data for positive impacts within their companies.
Our trainers are all data science consultants on the Mango team working on real-life applications of the content they teach. This means our courses are always current and include best practice approaches.
All participants receive comprehensive course notes and documentation to keep and use as a reference. Our training also includes free post-course access to our support services.
If you have questions about our training options or would like to organise a course for your team, please contact our Training Team.
Delivery options
Public Courses
We offer our range of courses regularly throughout the year in a number of locations. Attendance for these courses are priced per person and we offer academic discounts and group discounts.
Private courses
If you have more than one or two people on your team requiring training, we can provide our courses at a time and location that suits your company. Our private courses are suitable for up to 15 people and can be customised to cover your specific needs, including the incorporation of your own data sets if required.


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Sol International Travel
For all your travel needs
With over 30 years operating from Tralee in Co. Kerry, Sol Travel has a team of very experienced and professional staff whose mission is to take care of our customers every travel need.
Sol Travel are agents for all the Tour Operators, Airlines and Ferries and work with some of the largest Bed Banks in the World so have competitive accommodation prices available. We also arrange and advise on Travel Insurance and Visas so that you have peace of mind when travelling.
Sol Travel provides holiday packages of 7-14 days duration and also offer tailor made holidays to suit your needs. We also offer private consultation for Honeymoons, Weddings Abroad, Stag & Hen parties, Golf groups and all other sporting events.
Why Choose Sol?
Dedicated & Experienced Staff
Long Established
The best deal guaranteed
Easy Payment
Fully Licenced and Bonded
For your reassurance and the security of your holiday we are fully licenced by the Commission for Aviation Regulation, TA 0070, and bonded with the Irish Travel Agents Association and the International Air Transport Association.
Support every step of the way
Meet Our Team
We have a dedicated team, specialising in a wide variety of areas to help with your every travel need.
John has over 30 years experience in the travel trade and has travelled extensively worldwide. He has also been tour guide on many of Sol's Group Tours to destinations such as Poland, North America, Cuba, Vietnam and Russia. John's travel highlight was his trip to India where he toured the spectacular Golden Triangle. So if you are interested in joining Sol's guided tours or want to create a bespoke holiday package contact John at email@example.com
Orla has 30 years experience in the travel industry. During this time she has travelled extensively. Some of her favourite destinations have been Jamaica, New York and Poland. Her most recent trip was to Brazil. She found Rio as amazing as everyone says and more! Orla specialises in Long-Haul trips, Cruises, Family Holidays and Honeymoons.
Contact Orla at email@example.com
Caroline has worked in the travel industry for over 20 years. She has travelled to amazing destinations within Europe, the Mediterranean and USA. Her travel highlights include a South African Safari and driving the famous Garden Route. So if your dream holiday is relaxing in the sun, a shopping spree in New York or Chicago or a fun European city break, Caroline can assist you.
Contact Caroline at email@example.com