text:
Looking backwards
September 02, 2009
The slim new PlayStation 3 goes on sale in Australia tomorrow, and is a more attractive package than its heftier predecessor thanks to a price cut, some weight loss, lower power consumption, a bigger hard drive and a slowly-growing list of strong exclusive games.
But among the cries of "yay", "about time" and "too little too late", there were still many comments following the announcement that expressed disappointment that backward compatibility with PlayStation 2 games has not been re-introduced to the new model.
It was understandable that there was outrage and disappointment surrounding the removal of hardware-based backward compatibility from the Australian and European PlayStation 3.
Compared to our US and Japanese gaming cousins, we were paying more for less.
Then Sony removed PS2 backward compatibility altogether (although PS3 still plays PSone games fine...) and everyone around the world was in the same (leaky) boat.
Throughout the long-running saga it has been tempting to tell any whingers to quit their bleating. After all, those with a treasured PS2 software collection surely already owned a PS2 console, and few new PS3 owners would buy a PS2 game over a PS3 title.
But as Screen Play has said many times in the past, backward compatibility is not about playing old games, it is about ensuring consumer goodwill and loyalty.
Until Sony suddenly changed the rules, long-time PlayStation fans felt secure in the knowledge that their investment in PlayStation software over more than a decade was acknowledged as valuable and important, even in the wake of shiny and powerful new hardware.
The removal of backward compatibility seemed to suggest that Sony was more interested in saving a few dollars (or being able to sell old games again) than ensuring its customer bond remained strong.
Sony didn't seem to realise that backward compatibility was not about technology, but rather about making sure that people felt good about their past and future purchases. The goodwill it generated was surely worth a lot more than a hardware chip ripped from the PS3's innards.
It was an odd decision seeing that Sony's success in the past had relied so much on upon the power of the Sony and PlayStation brands in attracting new consumers as well as retaining existing customers.
But with decisions like the removal of backward compatibility, the company was getting a reputation for arrogance that has now proved very difficult to shake.
Of course, the reality is that precious few of us ever return to even our most treasured old games. Backward compatibility is arguably a console's least utilised feature.
In fact, I couldn't imagine I would want to return to many PS2 games at all these days. So I decided yesterday to conduct a quick experiment to see just how many PS2 games I might be still interested in playing.
Below is a list of the top 500 PlayStation 2 games according to Metacritic. The 500th game, The Godfather, earned a respectable average rating of 75 per cent, and sits above Sega's brilliant first Yakuza game.
I expected not to find too many games at all that I would bother to fire up now that "next-gen" is actually "current gen" and that the PS2 is a decade old. And I decided to be ruthless and realistic with my assessment.
I've marked the titles I would be interested in playing today in bold below.
Surprisingly, there were 86 games that I would happily play today, a number that far exceeded my expectations. The figure is approaching 20 per cent of the Top 500. Considering that many quirky games that are now the most interested PS2 faire aren't even in the Top 500, I think it's an excellent result for the aging warhorse.
I started out this exercise thinking it would provide some cheeky fodder to tell the nostalgic whiners to take off their rose-coloured glasses. It would be evidence that they should embrace the current generation, or just make sure they have a PS2 console or two in the cupboard any time they do get sentimental and want to play a couple of old games.
But instead I'm left impressed with the PS2's longevity and incredibly robust and diverse catalogue. And I'm once again scratching my head in bewilderment that Sony could have ever even contemplated removing PS2 backward compatibility from the PS3.
Today I'll be interested to hear how many of the games below you are still interested in playing, and whether you will be happy to buy games like God of War again, even if they are remastered for PS3.
Top 500 PS2 games according to Metacritic
1 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
2 Grand Theft Auto III
3 Resident Evil 4
4 Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
5 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
6 Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
7 Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec
8 Madden NFL 2003
9 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
10 Devil May Cry
11 Madden NFL 2002
12 Madden NFL 2004
13 Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
14 NCAA Football
15 God of War
16 Virtua Fighter 4
17 Burnout 3: Takedown
18 Pro Evolution Soccer
19 God of War II
22 Okami
23 World Soccer Winning Eleven 6 International
25 Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
26 Pro Evolution Soccer 2
27 World Soccer Winning Eleven 7 International
28 Soul Calibur II
29 SSX Tricky
31 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
32 Final Fantasy XII
33 Pro Evolution Soccer 3
34 Final Fantasy X
35 Guitar Hero II
36 Pro Evolution Soccer 5
37 ESPN NFL Football
38 Guitar Hero
39 Madden NFL 2000
40 Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil
41 Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal
42 Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
43 Twisted Metal: Black
44 Shadow of the Colossus
45 NCAA Football 2003
46 Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore
47 Madden NFL 2005
48 World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 International
49 Pro Evolution Soccer 4
50 Ico
51 Tony Hawk's Underground
52 NBA Street Vol. 2
53 Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
55 MVP Baseball 2004
56 Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
57 Burnout Revenge
58 NCAA Football 2002
59 Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
60 TimeSplitters 2
61 Viewtiful Joe
62 Rayman 2: Revolution
63 ESPN NHL Hockey
64 Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
65 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2004
66 NBA Street V3
69 Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
70 Ace Combat 4: Shattered Skies
71 Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell
72 Pro Evolution Soccer 6
73 Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES
74 World Soccer Winning Eleven 9
75 Gran Turismo 4
76 Silent Hill 2
78 ESPN NBA Basketball
79 NBA Street
80 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
81 Madden NFL 06
82 Winning Eleven 8 (JPN Import)
83 Medal of Honor Frontline
84 Tekken 5
85 Ratchet & Clank
86 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
87 Red Faction
88 NCAA Football 2005
89 Sly 2: Band of Thieves
90 FIFA Soccer 2003
91 NASCAR Thunder 2004
92 Fight Night Round 2
93 SOCOM II: U.S. Navy SEALs
94 Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
95 NCAA Football 06
96 Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
97 Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening Special Edition
98 Jak II
99 Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance
100 World Series Baseball 2K3
101 Bully
102 NCAA Football 07
103 NASCAR : Chase for the Cup
104 MVP Baseball
105 Dark Cloud 2
106 Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
107 Kingdom Hearts II
108 Half-Life
109 Guilty Gear X2
110 Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
112 Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007
113 Onimusha Warlords
114 Suikoden III
115 Beyond Good & Evil
116 Soul Calibur III
117 We Love Katamari
118 Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus
119 Amplitude
120 NBA Live 2004
121 Burnout 2: Point of Impact
122 Colin McRae Rally 3
123 Katamari Damacy
124 Psychonauts
125 ESPN College Hoops 2K5
126 Aggressive Inline
127 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition Remix
128 Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
129 Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
130 Midnight Club II
131 Tekken Tag Tournament 2000
132 Onimusha 3: Demon Siege
133 Final Fantasy X-2
134 Rumble Racing
135 Kingdom Hearts
136 Shadow Hearts: Covenant
139 Hot Shots Golf 3
140 Viewtiful Joe 2
141 WWE SmackDown! Here Comes the Pain
142 Champions of Norrath: Realms of EverQuest
143 Final Fantasy XI
144 NASCAR Thunder 2002
146 DDRMAX: Dance Dance Revolution
147 Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, The
148 Need for Speed Underground
149 Silent Hill 3
150 Fight Night 2004
151 Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
152 Mercenaries
153 FIFA Soccer
154 Quake III: Revolution
155 Star Wars Starfighter
156 TimeSplitters: Future Perfect
157 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition
158 High Heat Major League Baseball
159 Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
160 LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
161 NBA Live
162 Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
163 Red Faction II
164 Fight Night Round 3
166 Splashdown
167 Madden NFL 07
168 Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
169 NASCAR: Dirt to Daytona
170 NASCAR Thunder
171 Warriors, The
172 Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy
173 Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent
174 Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories
175 Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria
176 MLB 08: The Show 2008
177 Escape From Monkey Island
178 Star Wars: Battlefront II
179 WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2006
180 Spy Hunter
181 James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing
182 Jak 3
183 Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny
184 Resident Evil Code: Veronica X
185 Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
186 Sega Sports Tennis
187 Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
189 Wakeboarding Unleashed Featuring Shaun Murray
190 Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
191 Tony Hawk's Underground 2
192 Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, The
193 NBA Ballers
194 MLB 06: The Show
195 Xenosaga Episode I: Der Wille zur Macht
196 Karaoke Revolution
197 NBA Live
198 Indigo Prophecy
199 Rogue Galaxy
200 FIFA Soccer 08
201 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06
202 NCAA College Basketball 2K3
203 FIFA : Major League Soccer 2000
204 NCAA Football 08
205 Sims, The
206 Colin McRae Rally 04
207 Hitman: Blood Money
208 Def Jam Fight for NY
209 WipEout Fusion
210 Frequency
211 MLB 07: The Show
212 Odin Sphere
213 Maximo vs. Army of Zin
214 ESPN College Hoops
216 High Heat Major League Baseball 2004
217 TOCA Race Driver 2: The Ultimate Racing Simulator
218 X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse
219 TOCA Race Driver 3
220 Rock Band
222 Gitaroo-Man
223 Theme Park Roller Coaster 2000
224 Karaoke Revolution Volume 3
225 Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner
226 Peter Jackson's King Kong
227 WWE SmackDown! Shut Your Mouth
228 Gradius V
229 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
230 Need for Speed Most Wanted
231 ATV Offroad Fury 2
232 Ring of Red
233 SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs
234 Ape Escape 2
235 SOCOM 3: U.S. Navy SEALs
236 SingStar
237 FIFA Soccer 2002
238 Call of Duty 3
239 Tomb Raider: Legend
240 SEGA Genesis Collection
241 V-Rally 3
242 Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2
243 Major League Baseball 2K5
244 Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30
245 Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
246 Need for Speed Underground 2
247 Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
248 FIFA Soccer 09
249 NCAA March Madness 2004
250 ATV Offroad Fury
251 Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The
252 Star Wars: Battlefront
253 DDRMAX2: Dance Dance Revolution
254 NHL Hitz 20-03
256 Growlanser: Generations
257 NASCAR Heat
258 Ratchet: Deadlocked
259 Phantom Brave
261 Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniversary
262 Sims Bustin' Out, The
263 Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter
264 TimeSplitters 2000
265 Mega Man Anniversary Collection
266 Time Crisis II
267 Pro Race Driver
268 Time Crisis 3
269 Freedom Fighters
270 Metal Arms: Glitch in the System
271 International Superstar Soccer 2
272 Xenosaga Episode III: Also Sprach Zarathustra
273 Secret Weapons over Normandy
274 Freekstyle
275 Fatal Frame II: Crimson Butterfly
276 XG3 Extreme G Racing
277 All-Star Baseball 2003
278 Capcom vs. SNK 2: Mark of the Millennium 2001
279 Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
280 Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams
281 Mortal Kombat: Deception
282 FIFA Soccer 2005
283 Deus Ex: The Conspiracy
284 MVP Baseball 2003
285 OutRun : Coast 2 Coast
288 Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
289 Knockout Kings 2001
290 Soul Reaver 2
291 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2002
292 Metal Slug Anthology
293 Hot Shots Golf Fore!
294 Mark of Kri, The
295 EyeToy: Play
296 LMA Manager 2005
297 Spider-Man 2
298 NFL Street
299 WWE SmackDown! vs. Raw
300 MDK2 Armageddon
301 World Championship Snooker
302 Colin McRae Rally
303 WRC Rally Evolved
304 MX Unleashed
305 Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
306 FIFA Soccer 06
307 SSX On Tour
308 War of the Monsters
309 Splashdown: Rides Gone Wild
310 Moto GP 3
311 WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW
312 MLB Power Pros
313 Hitman: Contracts
314 World Rally Championship
315 Max Payne
316 Def Jam Vendetta
317 Dark Cloud
318 World of Outlaws: Sprint Cars 2002
319 Crazy Taxi
320 Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
321 R-Type Final
322 Smuggler's Run 2000
323 World Championship Snooker 2004
324 X-Men Legends
325 MX vs. ATV Unleashed
326 GrimGrimoire
327 La Pucelle: Tactics
328 Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
329 NHL Hitz Pro
330 Chessmaster
331 Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
332 Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
333 Giants: Citizen Kabuto
334 Dynasty Tactics
335 ESPN Major League Baseball
336 MTV Music Generator 3: This Is the Remix
337 Aqua Aqua
338 Tekken 4
339 Twisted Metal: Black Online
340 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
341 Black
342 MLB 09: The Show 2009
343 RAD: Robot Alchemic Drive
345 Guilty Gear X
346 Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2 - Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon
347 Space Channel 5 Special Edition
348 Sky Odyssey 2000
349 Downhill Domination
350 Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven
351 Burnout
352 Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II
353 Metal Slug 3
354 Contra: Shattered Soldier
355 Midnight Club: Street Racing 2000
356 Swing Away Golf 2000
357 Dynasty Warriors 3
358 Shadow of Destiny
359 Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy
360 Rez
361 Project: Snowblind
362 Thing, The
364 Shox
365 Ridge Racer V
366 SingStar Party
367 Cool Boarders 2001
368 Dynasty Warriors 4
369 Wild Arms 3
370 Adventures of Cookie & Cream, The
371 Karaoke Revolution Party
372 Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
373 Culdcept
374 Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga
375 Capcom Classics Collection
376 Fatal Frame III: The Tormented
377 Street Fighter Anniversary Collection
378 Karaoke Revolution: American Idol
379 Super Monkey Ball Deluxe
380 NCAA March Madness 06
381 Drakan: The Ancients' Gates
382 Gladius
383 MLB SlugFest 20-04
384 Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories
385 Tales of the Abyss
386 Dynasty Tactics 2
388 Simpsons: Hit & Run, The
389 EyeToy: Kinetic
390 SingStar 80's
391 Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure
392 Armored Core 2
393 NHL Hitz 20-02
394 ATV Offroad Fury 3
395 Formula One 05
396 WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009
397 Madden NFL 08
398 LEGO Star Wars
399 Alien Hominid
400 Moto GP 2
401 All-Star Baseball 2004
402 Zone of the Enders
403 Dropship: United Peace Force
404 Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords
405 NASCAR 06: Total Team Control
406 EyeToy: Play 2
407 NCAA March Madness 2005
408 World Tour Soccer 2003
409 Fire Pro Wrestling Returns
410 Call of Duty 2: Big Red One
411 UEFA Euro 2008 2008
412 NBA Live 06
413 SingStar BoyBands vs GirlBands
414 Yakuza 2
415 Dance Dance Revolution Extreme
416 Kinetica
417 College Hoops 2K6
418 James Bond 007: NightFire
419 World Tour Soccer 2002
420 FIFA World Cup
421 ATV Offroad Fury 4
422 MTV Music Generator 2
423 Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer
424 Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks
425 Taiko Drum Master
426 Ape Escape 3
427 LEGO Batman 2008
428 Tony Hawk's American Wasteland
429 Moto GP 2000
430 Smuggler's Run 2: Hostile Territory
431 MTX: Mototrax
432 Unreal Tournament 2000
433 Arcana Heart 2008
434 LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
435 EverQuest Online Adventures: Frontiers
436 Monster Rancher 3
437 True Crime: Streets of LA
438 Cricket 2002
439 Formula One 04
440 Monster Rancher 4
441 Champions: Return to Arms
442 Buzz! The Hollywood Quiz
443 Guilty Gear XX Accent Core
444 Rugby 06
445 Suffering, The
446 Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promathia
447 All-Star Baseball 2002
448 MLB SlugFest: Loaded
449 Grandia III
450 NFL Street 2
451 Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII
452 Makai Kingdom: Chronicles of the Sacred Tome
453 Gun
454 Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3
455 WRC 4: The Official Game of the FIA World Rally Championship
456 ESPN MLS Extra Time
457 Pool Paradise
458 MLB SlugFest 20-03
459 Blitz The League
460 Sniper Elite
461 MX Featuring Ricky Carmichael
462 Karaoke Revolution Volume 2
463 Knockout Kings 2002
464 SingStar Legends
465 Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2
466 Spider-Man: The Movie
467 .hack mutation part 2
468 Second Sight
469 TransWorld Surf
470 Mat Hoffman's Pro BMX 2
471 Burnout Dominator
472 MVP 07 NCAA Baseball
473 Harvest Moon: Save the Homeland
474 Call of Duty: Finest Hour
476 Shadow Hearts: From The New World
477 Brian Lara International Cricket 2005
478 High Heat Major League Baseball 2002
479 MVP 06 NCAA Baseball
480 Tokyo Xtreme Racer: Zero
481 Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
482 Magix Music Maker
483 Heroes of the Pacific
484 Bard's Tale, The
485 WWF SmackDown! Just Bring It
486 Jade Cocoon 2
487 Marvel vs. Capcom 2
488 NFL Blitz 20-02
489 Manhunt
490 Kim Possible: What's the Switch?
491 UEFA Euro 2004
492 Silent Hill 4: The Room
493 MX Superfly
494 Grand Prix Challenge
495 Summoner 2
496 SingStar Amped
497 Suikoden V
498 Jak X: Combat Racing
499 Midway Arcade Treasures
500 Godfather, The
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Recent comments
- terrarocks
- September 02, 2009
You don't need backwards compatability.
I bought my PS3 on launch day. One of the reasons I got it was because it had BC. I got one game with my PS3.
I only put my my new copy of GTA:vice city stories in the PS3 once... once! That was it for PS2 games touching my PS3.
Yes, this is back in the day when there were "no games" for the PS3.
One of the main reasons for this is because... I own a PS2!
Now there is a shite load of games for the PS3. In fact when the thing was launched there was enough games to keep me happy.
If you are worried about your PS2 collection, then you obviously own a PS2, so what is your friggin problem? Haven't you figured out how to use an AV box on your TV?
999999 reasons why I am sick of the BC excuse.
- Dustyps3
- September 02, 2009
Everyone knows that if people stopped buying the ps2 sony would not of been able to keep going with the ps3 for so long now which is why the BC was removed.
Ps2 was the leg supporting the ps3.
If the ps3 actually starts to sell large qtys expect it to be patched in but even with a small spike in sales the slim model will provide over the next few months, i still expect the sales numbers to be down from the other big 2.
Right now is the launch they should of had 2 years ago... instead they released an expensive hunk of dust collecting plastic which developers hate,with bugger all games to play,poor online and a sack full of empty promises.
Things have improved now and i enjoy my ps3 to some degree but its always playing catch up.
BTW ps3 firmware 3.0 is up...it adds in functions such as visible freinds online counter and inbox numbers
Wonder what they will bring in next weeks firmware update
- owza
- September 02, 2009
Ha, I still regularily play Gran Turismo 4 on the old beast.
It still kicking along after 1 laser repair under waranty years ago. Although it does take some time to load now days and can no longer play DVDs.
I still play cert PS2 games as I still have it connected to the telly in my room.
- Joka
- September 02, 2009
Huge list! My returns are (with obvious theme):
GTA Series
Suikoden V
Dragon Quest
Final Fantasy X
Dark Cloud
Dark Chronicle
Puzzle Quest
Persona 3/4
Yakuza 2
Lego SW
Rogue Galaxy
Most of my PS1 games I've kept are RPGs and nothing else. Good collectables!
- MuZ
- September 02, 2009
Jason, I understand where you are going with your comments, but the current GEN keeps me entertained, that is all I need.
I was disappointed initially that Australia and Europe lost backward compatibility with the introduction of the 40GB version.
I have some of the games in the list, I did enjoy them at the time and I can also count the amount of times I have had the need or the urge to play them, since the PS3 was introduced, the only games were Scarface and God of War 2. The only reason I wanted to play them, was to complete the games.
I have limited gaming time as it is, to go and revisit all of my collection (71 games at 9 hours each) I would have to find another 639 hours in my life.
If I wanted to play a PS2 title, I can go switch on the PS2 and enjoy the game, how it was meant to be played.
Even when the PS2 came out and had PS1 compatibility, I still used the PS1 if I wanted to play PS1 games.
I don't see the need to purchase a re-worked title. Unless it is one that I never had and was available. The first on my list would be ICO.
- Symon
- September 02, 2009
Wait..my monolith can play ps1 games? Here I am waiting for Bomberman on the PSN store and all I needed to do was pop in my ps1 disc of Bomberman World?
This workday is Oooover!
- bass400
- September 02, 2009
Hehe - methinks Jason you betray a dislike of sporting, fighting and driving games? :) ... I'm the same. My heart skipped a beat when I downloaded the latest ps3 software patch, and saw the internal memory card labelled as PS/PS2 ... but couldn't remember whether that had been there before (to support those earlier models that permitted PS2 games). Oh well ... I'm still holding out for a software solution ... surely that's possible??
Jason says: Not at all, they are some of my favourite genres. I just wouldn't play a PS2 version of a racer, fighting game or a sports title when I could play a PS3, 360 or even a Wii version.
- September 02, 2009
I'm one of the lucky ones that has a PS3 with BC. I think this year i've been playing alot more PS2 games then PS3 games with Persona 3, Persona 4, God of War and God of War 2.
- Rathbone
- September 02, 2009
The slim PS3 won't sell well with the current xbox 360 owners as they are obviously afraid of weight loss.
- kenhitokiri
- September 02, 2009
I'd definitely be keen to play some of my old PS2 games.
God of War series would looks great when it gets upscaled, but will look even better when they release the 720p version on Bluray.
Some games like Ico and Shadow of Colossus I love playing. I have the original 60Gb PS3 with backward compatability, so can still enjoy some of these games.
- Bananadude
- September 02, 2009
I have seen the new ps3 on display and to be honest, it is the ugliest console I have ever seen, not only this but it seems to me to be the same size as the old ps3 only the mass has been distributed to a different shape, also the new unit cannot be placed on its side. I will stick with my old good looking unit thanks.
- Butch Walker
- September 02, 2009
I'd go so far as to say that the PS2 was probably the best console ever and it's a shame that the PS3 can't fill it's shoes.
I have a PS2 and a Xbox 360. The ultimate console combination for me :D
I've just found that the PS3, even with it's price drop, just doesn't have enough killer games. The Live! system on the 360 is also a huge plus for me and my mates. It's just so reliable and feature-rich. I couldn't go without it now.
Out of that list, I'd happily play 124 of them.
- Thom
- September 02, 2009
In a generation where two consoles have little to differentiate one from the other, removing a feature like this is pure madness.
The fact is, the PS2 has a better library of games than the PS3, the X-Box 360, and the Wii combined. With backwards compatibility, all those casual PS2 gamers considering an upgrade have a reason to keep with Sony, as things stand, they probably have no real reason to select the PS3 over the X-Box and vice-versa.
- Tank
- September 02, 2009
"But as Screen Play has said many times in the past, backward compatibility is not about playing old games, it is about ensuring consumer goodwill and loyalty."
That's a bit extreme - backward compatibility is about being to be able to play your old favourites without having to plug the old machine into the TV.
So it doesn't play PS2 games. Big deal. Like you said, most of these people would have a PS2 and can play it on that. I still have my PS2 sitting next to the TV. It's not plugged in but I feel nostalgic then it's just a matter of putting the AV cables into the TV.
My thoughts on why the PS3 is not backwards compatible is because Sony is still selling the PS2 and people are still buying the PS2 and developers continue to support it. It's not a dead product.
So I don't think it's worth getting worked up about. It doesn't look like we're going to get backwards compatible and it's been like this for two years - I think it's time to move on.
- gankul
- September 02, 2009
I know that god of war collection is ocming, but its a good exaple.
God of war III, PS3. You bought a ps3, but want to play GOW 1 & 2, without BC you need to buy a PS2 as well.
Not everyone who complains about BC not being there owns a PS2.
As i siad before though, if we only had software emulation and the us had hardware, how much money did it save removing the software emulation?
Arrogance was showna lso with the repeated comments of its worth the money, people will pay for it because its a premium product. Proven wrong by having sales less then a console that has design flaws.
- zebba
- September 02, 2009
I have a PS2 collection. I HAD a PS2.
Things break. Things get lent to mates and disappear into the nether. Terrarocks' "obviously" has suddenly become obfuscated.
In 10 years time when I want to revisit FFVII, I'll look at my disks and say "well... if only".
They can do it. There is no reason not to do it, other then saving a couple of bucks. That someone with no financial interest would argue against them doing it is ludicrous.
999999 reasons why I'm sick of people who think they know everything.
- luverly_5pam
- September 02, 2009
I for one wish my PS3 had BC. We used to have a family PS2 back in the mists of time, but when I moved out of home, the PS2 stayed there.
There are many PS2 games I would love to revisit (GTA: Vice City, I'm looking at you!). Much more pertinently, there are many games that I missed out on that I would love to actually try. The biggest example of this is Shadow of the Colossus.
I have never subscribed to the idea that games lose their value or are no longer worth playing as soon as they are no longer 'current gen'.
- I still regularly play old Atari games from my youth via emulator
- I am currently playing through Half Life for the first time (and loving it!)
- One of my first purchases for my PS3 was a PS1 game! (Tekken 3 FTW)
So if the PS3 had NO backwards compatibility, I would have missed out on replaying arguably the best of the Tekken games.
- Gabe
- September 02, 2009
No *shmup* love, Jason??
228 Gradius V
321 R-Type Final
And what about this?
285 OutRun : Coast 2 Coast
(Been playing it to death on Steam.. I assume the PS2 version is as good?)
- Cha
- September 02, 2009
There are still some PS2 games I intend to finish - God of War 1 and 2, Ico, Final Fantasy XII, possibly GTA San Andreas, and a few other things not on that list. This may have something to do with the fact that I've only had access to a PS2 in the last few years and have been going back to try out things I've missed.
I would appreciate backwards compatibility. It would be nice not to need two Playstations hooked up and taking up space. The PS2 games don't get nearly as much use as current-gen games, but they do still get played.
But no, I wouldn't buy re-releases of the same games just so the PS3 can run them. Buying a game once is quite enough.
Much more annoying for me the than the lack of backwards compatibility, though, is the lack of multi-region movie support. I have never understood the logic involved in stopping me from playing my perfectly legal DVDs.
- Shingeki
- September 02, 2009
So many good points brought up here, of why BC should be there. Theoretically wouldn't it be possible to re-add BC through emulation in a version update? (Am I wrong in assuming this? I do not know muct about PS Emu.)
- Smoolander
- September 02, 2009
Where is the love for Tony Hawk 3. WHEEEEERRRRREEEEE? The absolute pinnacle of Tony Hawk games, that has only been succeeded by mediocrity after mediocrity on the current gen consoles.
Not owning a PS3, I think I'd fall into the 'meh' category about not having backwards compatibility, but for all those people who have a vast library of PS2 games and have not upgraded to a PS3 yet, they are stuffed if the PS2 breaks down. I also raise the question about the need to have two consoles plugged into the TV when 1 should do the job.
Jason says: Why play with the Birdman when you can Skate?
- DexX
- September 02, 2009
I got my first-generation BC-enabled PS3 very early in its life cycle, and to start with, PS2 games were the only f--king things to play on it. Years later, there are plenty of good games to play on the PS3 now, but I really bonded with a lot of my old PS2 games and I replay them from time to time. If I didn't have BC, I just wouldn't play them.
My old favourites that I still replay occasionally: Ico; Shadow of the Colossus; We Love Katamari; and Okami.
- Blurry
- September 02, 2009
@ Zebba
"In 10 years time when I want to revisit FFVII, I'll look at my disks and say "well... if only""
I agree with your point in terms of backwards compatibility, but this is a poor example - firstly, it's on PSN. Secondly, the PC version is superior and is well supported. Thirdly, your legitimate PSX discs will work on the PS3. Fourthly, it works fine through PSX emulation on a PC.
I might submit that emulation is the way to go - just like all other old consoles. Most of the above will eventually work on PC.
Sony would have seen a few sales from me in terms of PS2 games I missed if my PS3 was backwards compatible - GOW and MGS3 for example - their loss though.
- bigdaddy
- September 02, 2009
This is a bit of a pet hate with me as there are games that come out on the PS2/Wii that aren't released on PS3/360. Mainly kids games but if you have kids then it is an issue. Why try to market yourself as a family machine when there are hardly any PS3 games for kids and you can't play PS2 games on your new skinny machne?
Its also a point of difference between the PS3 and 360 as many original xbox games can be played on the 360.
I don't have a huge PS2 collection but I'd like to be able to play RE4 and give FFX another crack on the big tv. The kids have more PS2 games then I do (360 is a different story)
@terrarocks - Machines die, especially when kids are involved. When I've already acquired a PS3 it gives me the s@@ts to have to buy a replacement PS2.
- ArghZombies
- September 02, 2009
Great article - I'm also quite surprised at the longevity of the PS2
We Love Katamari still sits at home and the cover is looked upon lovingly from time to time. 'I' Love Katamari
and Shadow of the Colossus is a contender for best.game.evar - a game i would love to play again on my PS3
Only other's that i'd highlight are the Onimusha, Timesplitters and Hitman series. I'd play them again in a shot.
- zebba
- September 02, 2009
I accept that there are workarounds. But how many of those workarounds involve me paying for the game again or breaking the law?
I agree that emulation is the solution. But that emulation should be built into the OS.
- singo the dingo
- September 02, 2009
Here's a question - does the Xbox not sell any more because the 360 has BC?
- Mongey
- September 02, 2009
wow so suprised to see TH3 in no 1 spot . That game was the best of the series by far but the best ever game on PS2 ? thats huge
what gets me about BC is surley its not that hard to do . A peice of emulation software ? not sure why they bother removing it or not supporting it .it can only help sell consoles . My Ps2 dies , a recent PS3 price drop , why not upgrade if I can play all my old games on it ?
- Joka
- September 02, 2009
One thing I'd like to add is the fact with BC you have less consoles to have around. That was the beauty of upgrading from the PS1 to the PS2, not having 2 consoles to play games. That is one thing I have liked from the MS, who have incorporated many old xbox games via Live. Having said that, I haven't purchased any (nor spent a decent amount of time looking through) but I'm sure there would be one or two I'd look into.
- Darryn
- September 02, 2009
Well said Jason, you nailed the general sentiments right on.
Its about the good-will to support possibly the greatest platform range the games industry has ever experienced over a decent life-cycle. Why would they not want to be in the business of promoting that?...
September 02, 2009 07:37 AM
Everyone knows that if people stopped buying the ps2 sony would not of been able to keep going with the ps3 for so long now which is why the BC was removed.
Correct so far as conspiracy theories go, Im sure this played some part.
The adverse logic is that the PS2 was the only product making money for Sony (to date still is?), so to cut that functionality from the PS3.. boosted or hindered? I believe the latter.
Of course I can see not far on the horizon PS2 games being added to the Playstation Store for $20-30 AUS. This would make alot of commercial sense in combating Microsoft's (disasterous to date) Games-on-Demand service.
Only a question of how the games community will take that advent, is it betrayal & heresy or another positive check box for the platform?
(PS Jason I again must express my distaste for using metacritic in any capacity as part of journalistic endeavours... like I hate seeing youtube clips in my 6pm news).
- September 02, 2009
Congratulations Jason for a well-written argument for PS2 backwards compatibility in the PS3. You've managed to capture many of my feelings on the issue as well as the important points about how Sony's image has been marred in the process.
It's a real shame that the first comment to appear used the same closed-minded "just use your PS2" argument we've seen on forums everywhere. Go away and think about it some more. The PS3 with backwards-compatibilty offers wireless controllers, unlimited space for saved games, HDMI output - it's actually a much better PS2 than the original. Plus you save space near your TV - not everyone wants multiple consoles (and sets of controllers!) sitting in their lounge rooms. And if the PS3 is capable of playing PS2 games, why shouldn't it? Any additional piece of functionality is one more reason that may persuade someone to buy one - and for any of the 138 million PS2 owners who haven't yet bought a next-gen console, wouldn't backwards compatibility be persuasive feature?
- barrymoves
- September 02, 2009
Backwards compatibility?
What a complete non-event. I don't understand why people like playing old games on new hardware.
I have no Xbox games anymore, but I confess to purchasing Halo from XBL GOD when it was a 'deal of the week' months and months back. I've only replayed the first two levels and then I decided that it looked too crappy in 4:3 on a 16:9 1080p capable TV. Plus, no achievements, so zero incentive to play - regret spending those 800 MS points that's for sure.
I'm liking the theory that Sony would prefer to make money by continuing to support the PS2, and then make yet more money when they release said PS2 games for download on the PSN.
I find pretty much that I lust after games of yore, right up to the point that I try to play them, adn then it all falls apart. Give me pretty and shiny any day (or at least widescreen support)...
- Falooza
- September 02, 2009
BC was always a PR exercise. I would say that it's more aimed at the parents of young gamers than the gamers themselves.
I remember when I was younger nagging Mum to get a Ps1, one of the big sticking points was that my large Megadrive collection would be 'wasted'. My nagging eventually won through of course. I didn't care about my Megarive games, I wanted a Playstation dammit!
But parents aren't making an emotional decision, they are trying to rationalise a large purchase. I think the Ps2's BC with Ps1 was a big selling point with parents, even though the kids probably didn't care so much.
I have a Ps3 with software BC, and to tell you the truth I've only used it 2-3 times. It wasn't a factor in my purchase at all, but I can see how it would be for parents deciding whether or not to drop $800+ on a console. I agree that Sony were stupid to remove, I don't think they quite understood why they put it there in the first place.
- steve
- September 02, 2009
I bought a megadrive and mastersystem with 30 games on ebay in 2002 (for $25). I was a massive sega boy in my time and I was convinced that I'd be playing them all the time.
Since then I've hooked the the mega drive up twice and the master system up once.
- September 02, 2009
For the record, since buying my PS3 with BC, I've played the following PS2 games on it:
- God of War
- Canis Canem Edit (Bully)
- Final Fantasy XII
- Psychonauts
- Rogue Galaxy
- Persona 4
I was in the middle of playing God of War on my PS2 when I bought my PS3. I finished it on the PS3.
Persona 4 is actually the main game I'm currently playing. I'm about 17 hours into it. Also note that this game was released JUST 5 MONTHS AGO in Australia, so it's hardly an "old PS2 game".
Plus I have a number of other games I still intend to play/finish. In particular I never played ICO or Shadow of the Colossus, and I intend to find copies of both of those.
I've also played some PS1 games:
- Final Fantasy VII (Disc version, not the recent downloadable version)
- Final Fantasy Origins
- Metal Gear Solid
- Transport Tycoon
This last game is interesting because in order to save the game just once, it requires the entire PS1 memory card! I only ever had one real PS1 memory card, and I had saved games on it I didn't want to delete (because I hadn't finished those games yet). With the purchase of my PS3, I was finally able to play this game.
- death to nerds
- September 02, 2009
Am I the only person here who values having another console plugged into another TV for when the Mrs is utilising the lounge?
The more consoles the better imo.
As an aside why is PS2'ing in the bedroom acceptable as opposed to DS'ing on the lounge when she is watching Curb?
Good article though, and I agree with the sentiment of customer loyalty. If only the consumer was as loyal to Sony this gen and didn't all bugger off to buy Wiis.
- Blurry
- September 02, 2009
@ Zebba
As I said before, I'm all for backwards compatibility, but ultimately there are costs associated with such.
I would expect that the counter to your argument from Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft would be "Why should we incur costs to let gamers play games on systems that they were not designed for? Or, if we do allow it to occur, why should we not charge a small premium?"
Now, there are of course, reasons that they should, which others have stated above, but all of the above will look at it on a costs/benefit basis.
Seeminly, Sony has deemed that the cost outweighs the benefit, similar to what you imply you will be doing if you have to pay for the product again.
Ultimately, I'd seriously doubt that backwards compatibility is a deal breaker when deciding which console to buy. I like the fact my Wii is compatible with my GC games, but wouldn't lose sleep over it if it wasn't. However, as I stated before, they missed some PS2 sales with me for PS3 as a result.
Lastly, I'm not entirely sure emulators are actually illegal per se, provided the game itself is legal (?).
In any event, in 10 years time I hardly think Squeenix are going to be beating down your door for running a 20 year old game on your PC. :)
- Kermit
- September 02, 2009
I wonder if Sony could sell (software) backwards compatibility via the PlayStation Store.
For those who are passionate about playing PS2 games on the PS3, how much would you be prepared to pay for the priviledge?
- zebba
- September 02, 2009
@ kermit
I seem to recall when this issue first raised it's ugly head that a saving of $20 a unit was being bandied around.
I'd happily pay double that.
And if it was software emulation built into the OS, the costs go down...
@ Blurry
We agree with each other so I'm not going to get bogged down in the tiny points where we actually disagree! (If there even are any!)
My issue here is more from an "ethics" perspective. I've paid good money for the original game, so I should be able to play it legally, not have to buy it again, not have to find some third party emulator (that probably needs to run on my PC, and I think in many cases IS illegal), and not have to hunt for second hand consoles when mine inevitably breaks down and they've stopped making the PS2 (or PS3, or PS4, or whatever).
The console makers could easily and at minimal extra R&D cost put this ability into their consoles.
Like Jason says - it's about respecting your customers.
On the PC, I still install games like Fallout 2, Deus Ex and Starcraft every few years for a fun trip down nostalgia lane. I'd love to do that with my PS2 games like FFX (yes, VII was a bad example!) and GTA:SA (which yes, I also have on the PC but the freaking disk is corrupted!) but I can't just plug and play!
- Smoolander
- September 02, 2009
"Am I the only person here who values having another console plugged into another TV for when the Mrs is utilising the lounge?
Posted by death to nerds September 02, 2009 03:40 PM"
Yes....yes you are....you crazy cat
- Blurry
- September 02, 2009
@ Zebba
Yep - we don't disagree at all - was more some points of discussion.
As stated, agree with you from an "ethical" perspective, but since when are ethics a major motive for these mobs? :)
I'm sure it's purely a cost/benefit thing - an unfortunate reality - but if they are going to make these decisions, I believe it is encumbent upon you in ten years time (or whenever) to do whatever is necessary to run these fine productions. At high res. With anti aliasing. And texture filtering :)
You are most certainly not alone on the old PC games front - though I recall finding Fallout 2 a bugger to get going back at Uni... By the by - I believe there is a good texture repac out there for Deus Ex.
Funny you mention Starcraft as I am currently working through Warcraft 2, though sadly, in terms of this conversation at least, I bought the Battlenet Edition!.
- bondsan
- September 02, 2009
I like the idea of sentimental game-playing, but I, like others, don't have the time to play older games that I haven't finished to finish OR replay games. Any new games I finish before I move on to a new one.(minus craptacular Transformers the movie)
I bought the PS3 and a BIG drawing card at the time was the PS2 BC but looking at my current setup, there is only one game I constantly go back to - Rugby League 2. When one comes out for PS3, guess what, there won't be any games I play on a regular basis from PS2.
I held onto my collection of PS2 games for 2 years under the impression that I would go back to them until earlier this year when I went to gametraders and traded in 90% of them. I probably could have done the other 10% at the time(of course i've left out RL2) but I still have the illusion these are too good to get rid of yet(MSG 2,3). Oh, and i've still got my PS2 as well(which came in handy when I got the Orange flash of Death on the PS3 two months in a row).
When I got the PS2, I bought MGS1 ('cos the only games on PS2 at the time were ones that didn't appeal to me) and Gran Turismo 3.
I suppose is its all well and good to think your hard done by, but if you've kept the PS2, then you still don't have a problem. And if it does go,its not too much to pick up another one.
And PS2 emulation was never fully software based otherwise the original machine would have stopped right???
- InstinctSage
- September 02, 2009
My PS2 is dying. I purchased a copy of Psychonauts, only to find my PS2 will play it at about 6fps in most places. Shinobido, which used to work fine, also stutters during gameplay. Many games will take abnormaly long times to load levels, etc.
Luckily, Odin Sphere played beautifully, and I stuck with that for 2 weeks while the PS3, 360 and Wii lay dormant. GrimGrimoire I hesitated on as it was a change from other Vanillaware titles, and I don't see myself getting it before Muramasa: Demon Blade hits the Wii. I think I have most of the PS2 titles I would want already.
I agonise over whether I should purchase another, but the multitap I have doesn't fit in a slim and even though I doubt I'll ever use it again I... don't want a slim. I want the classic.
But what I'd REALLY want is backwards compatability so I needn't worry anymore. I could ditch the 9 year old hardware, the aging controllers, the memory cards I've had to juggle saves around on, the A/V plug switcheroos, and the PS3 could be one step closer to being a more central piece in the home entertainment chain.
But it won't happen now, I know that. I can see downloadable copies, perhaps touched up, perhaps not, on sale, non-transferrable, priced to attack anyone feeling nostalgic. I can't see a free PS2 backwards compatibility update.
- Mr Ak
- September 02, 2009
Curse you, work firewall! Random question (if a question falls in the forest and no-one hears it, did it really get asked...) Does anyone know why the actually removed the software BC from the PS3? Hardware I an understand, but why software when it was already developed? Is it just to sell developer kits and new platform licensing?
- Slappa42
- September 02, 2009
I had every intention to buy a PS3 originally when it had BC but the price was just too much. With the "Slim" this was an opportunity to include it and bring the doubters out of the dark and make it a must buy. Once again, Sony has decided to forego BC and I shall once again reconsider buying it.
To make any money on the PS3, I believe Sony will put all Playstation 2 games on PSN for download sale. Some may have enhancements to take advantage of HD, like with Monkey Island.
The key to all this is that with such a large library of games, Sony will remarket and re-sale to the consumer.
Jason, you were spot on with your article and agree that Sony dropped the ball big time not thinking of customer satisfaction.
- mmamster
- September 02, 2009
I disagree completely.
I owned 2 PS2 consoles over its lifespan and got sick of its inadequate graphics power. I have been waiting for the next gen to become affordable and now is the time to buy. The games library is now pretty good and the prices are reasonably comparable to the old PS2 prices from a few years ago.
I switched to PC games for a very short while and then tried a Wii. That lasted 6 months before I sold it.
For me PS2 compatibility is not a factor. If I wanted to retain PS2 capability I would have kept the old PS2. I didn't - it is old hat.
How about you put yourself to the test Jason and play only the PS2 titles you have nominated until the PS4 is released. No 360, no PS3. How long will you last?
- stubbo
- September 03, 2009
Dick Smith have a PS3 Slim and Batman AS pack for 499. Backwards compatibility issues aside, your gonna get a definate spike in PS3 sales. I hope that Sony release software compatibility to take advantage of PS2 library's, but I believe that will mean that the PS2 will then be removed from sale to maximise profit. Having remastered games is a good selling point and Sony are not the only ones doing it, just look at the metriod prime trillogy for Wii. I will probably end up with the PS3 Slim within 6 months and will definately purchase the God of War pack
- September 03, 2009
@Mr Ak
The original PAL PS3s had software PS2 emulation, but it was only partially software. These PS3s still contained the "Graphics Synthesiser" GPU hardware from the PS2, while the "Emotion Engine" CPU was emulated in software.
This was different to the US/Japan NTSC PS3 which contained hardware versions of both chips (and nearly 100% compatibility with PS2 titles).
The "40Gb" PS3 has neither chip, and no software emulation of the "Graphics Synthesiser" hardware has been released by Sony, which would be required for the recent PS3s to play PS2 games.
- Daryl
- September 03, 2009
The exception is that most (all?) Singstar PS2 games are fully compatible with all PS3s, as long as you own a PS3 Singstar. Not only that, but they play much better on the PS3 than they ever did on the PS2.
- terrarocks
- September 05, 2009
Sony has already stated that it would rather pay for its development team to be working on PS3 software, rather than PS2 BC.
Here is a list of games Sony has done/is working on instead of BC:
Demon's Souls (Japan)
Killzone 2
MLB 09: The Show
Announced for 2009
Gran Turismo 5
MAG (video game)
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Announced for 2010
The Agency
DC Universe Online
God of War III
Heavy Rain
Modnation Racers
The Last Guardian
White Knight Chronicles
Are you willing to forgo GOW III so that their development teams can work on BC?
Grow up, stop whinging and admit you don't want a PS3 for some other reason.
Arrogance is saying you wont buy a PS3 because of BC when you know you wont buy one anyway.
950443 points towards "The Argument Sketch"
- Mr Ak
- September 06, 2009
@ Terra
I'd be willing to forgo GOW III for some loose change, or maybe some bellybutton fluff.
Just, you know, for the record.
To be fair, I take your point, although you do overclaim it. Sony isn't really working on most of those games. Game developers are. But undoubtedly they do contribute some assistance, which does cost them money.
Given the relatively poor sales of the PS3, though, you'd think they'd want to either a) cut prices (I know, they have, but they needed to about 12 months back) or b) offer as much bonus material as possible. Blu-ray and free PSN access don't do it for me, and judging from sales, a lot of other folk as well. Removing BC is a bad call, (especially offering it and THEN removing it, without really reducing prices) if they want to win this generation's console war.
There is always the theory that they didn't give a damn about the console war, that they only wanted the PS3 to win the HD video-war.
Choice, bra. Appreciated
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