text:
Just because someone is born a specific race does not mean they should receive money. Scholarships should be based on personal traits that people actually have CONTROL over, not what they're born with. These scholarships just straight up exclude people if they're not a specific race.
Edit: this opinion is from a 17yo who feels financially burdened with the expenses of college. Yes there's bigger problems than scholarships when it comes to the education system, but I felt this issue should be addressed because I rarely see anyone mention it.
Just because someone is literally anything but white does not mean they should receive money. Scholarships need to based on personal traits that people actually have CONTROL over, not what they're born with. These scholarships just straight up exclude people if they're not a specific race.
"Literally anything but white"
Asians have actually got the admissions/scholarship discrimination factor worse than white people do. It should just disappear for everyone
My friend is Laotian. Hes from Laos. But the only demographic he can circle is Asian. So instead of being an actual minority from an impoverished country he is just classified as Asian. Therefore hes not a minority, and cant apply for minority scholarships.
Not saying any racial preference on scholarships is ok, but it would make a lot more sense of the money actually went to the right people.
Aaaaaand there's the injustice right there. It's a blind system, not helping those who actually need the help.
This like my white African friend not getting the same grants as my Somalian friend.
We use to joke about that. Cause technical the white guy was actually African South African and the Somalian was Somalian from North Africa yet identifies as Somali.
Yet out of the two Africans only the black one received the African scholarship.
I have yet to hear an argument on why race-based admissions make more sense than needs-based ones, but am open to hearing one. To me it just makes sense, especially when you consider that the entire argument in favor of race-based admissions is really one thats rooted in economic injustice.
So you are in favor of needs-based admissions?
He can be like that one Indian guy who pretended he was black to get into Harvard.
The ocean? What ocean?
I could see having the admissions worse, but I've literally never seen a white person scholarship, and when starting at 0 you can only go up
What do you mean by white person scholarships? There's scholarships for Latvian, Polish and other European denominations/groups (they're definitely out there). I just feel that people keep saying there's no "white people scholarship" only out of ignorance. What does it mean to be white? What does it mean to give scholarships based on "whiteness?" What does it mean to be proud of being white? I can see a ton of reasons why people would be proud to be Irish, Finnish, Albanian, or some other ethnicities (and they should be proud), but what about whiteness gives a sense of a shared culture?
[Black is not the same thing in that sense; It mostly refers to African Americans, or those who can't easily trace their roots back (that in itself is kind of the shared identity - not knowing where one's ancestors came from). But even then there are tons of scholarships for even Caribbean or African people.]
There are scholarships for "white people, " but I feel like this conversation is about something else entirely.
White is not the same thing in that sense; it mostly refers to Caucasian Americans, or those who can't easily trace their roots back to their original European ancestors. The color of your skin shouldn't factor into receiving any sort of biased treatment, positive or negative.
Speaking as a liberal, 100% agree. We should celebrate other cultures and races by elevating them to equal footing. Not by raising them above our own. Racial scholarships is overcompensating.
Isn't this one of the mechanisms of doing that elevation, though?
Why can't a Caucasian trace their roots back to their European ancestors?
Because people who have been born in America, like their parents before them, and their parents, and their parents, and their parents (if that's 100 years- many go back triple that) remember no other national identity. Why would someone identify as Irish if they know nothing of Ireland and have never been? It's not like they can get an Irish scholarship either.
Why can't they trace their roots? Maybe they can, most don't know how. Family history from generations ago is long lost to the average person, i know nothing beyond my grandparents.
Because many don't have great family records, and/or genetic testing is unaffordable or too inaccurate for them?
Because most of us are European mutts.....very very few of us are 100% or 50% one single European nationality.
Many of the poorer, less educated white people just cant do that. They may have a vague sense of where they are from, but that is it.
So it should be based on merits? Like grades? So for those people with a good start already receiving additional assistance?
Or, can there literally be scholarships for every and anything out there. Think of a criteria, there's probably a scholarship for it. Just have to look.
Wasn't their a white guy from South America, and listed his race as African on all the forms and had his scholarships removed once they found out he was white? Let's be real they are scholarships for black people.
This is the perfect response. Well thought out. The only problem is that all "black" people qualify for most of the African American scholarships not just the ones who can't easily trace their origins due to the slave trade.
This right here is the kind of thinking that normalizes white discrimination. The very idea that being white is so privileged that we all maintain connections to our countries of origin is ridiculous. 90% of white americans are a mash up of European ancestories, making getting a polish or irish scholarship a non starter. Id be willing to bet a large portion of white americans cant even say what origins they have simply because the have been mixed so much.
This is doublethink. Here you acknowledge "white" as a skin color yet everywhere else in the USA it is used in the ethnic denotation of "not African-American or other minority." Shameful
The unfortable truth is that the definition of "white" is closely tied with "being the favored class". Many people who are "white" today are white because of a shifting definition that corresponds with them becoming white once they got a pass (usually thanks to some new, darker, community moving in) to be part of the dominate group.
The Irish weren't "white", until they were. The Italians weren't "white", until they were. Greeks weren't "white", until they were. In each case, traditionally these communities were seen as stranger foreign outsiders and not the anglo-germanic "white" that was acceptable. Old maps of cities call out areas with "Hispanics, Italians, and other less desirable races", which was a step up from the black neighborhoods according to those racist maps. Being white means being accepted into the favored ruling class by the zeitgeist of the country, which is to say having power and privilege in a way that others do not.
The truly sad thing is that everything outside of that communal access to "the good stuff", "whiteness" is a hollow facsimile. It has no real cultural content. Everything else that defines someone who is "white" in any meaningful way is a product of locations (urban vs suburban vs rural or by state/region), profession/income (white collar vs blue collar), and from other actual cultural heritages (stolen or not). I think one of the reasons other people with a clear cultural inheritance bother people who know nothing other than "whiteness" is rooted in anxiety over how thin the cultural veneer is on being "white".
It's like those people who get super, super angry when someone of the same gender hits on them - the less secure they are, the bigger the freak out. People who are secure in their own cultural identity don't get worked up over a scholarship that is aimed at someone else.
I think it's about affirmative action placed in the 90's. Trying to be "fair" based on race. Though getting into college is usually based on how smart and hard working you are..... the levels to get in and get certain scholarships are different for each race. IE if affirmative action wasn't in place, 90% of Harvard would probably be Asian, since they tend to teach there kids respect and hard work.
Imagine trying to get into a good college and getting straight A's and scoring high on an SAT only to not get in and then watch some one who scored decent on the SAT but no where near your score and who made straight A's but no AP classes or anything like that get a spot to go to the school you wanted to get into. All because you are Asian instead of white or black or whatever (race is such a volatile issue :( ). Scholarships based on that are whatever because half the time they are funded by someone private, If someone has a problem with that being based on race, well too bad imo, if the black community wants to raise up their community by doing scholarships they let them. Same with Spanish speaking/Latin American decent scholarships and so on. As the lines blur hopefully we can put the bullshit behind us and move forward on every side of the race issue and realize we all live together.
That's my take on it, :)
In college there were all these programs for different ethnicities including help with job searches and coop placements.
As somebody who is white I was often excluded from using these programs my friends were using.
Now with all these programs and companies having to hire culturally diverse people, it was a lot harder to find a job then my Somalian counter part.
How many scholarships have you seen?
I graduated from an HBCU (I'm white) and they have minority scholarships for Non-POC.
Meh, if you're an Asian Woman you can still use the woman card for scholarships. Asian dude though? Fucked.
Not sure about scholarship discrimination.
But there is sufficient evidence for a case that Asians are penalized for being Asian during admissions.
The white house has taken Interest in this fight. More than likely they don't care about defending discriminated asians. The goal is to end affirmative action, using Asians as the justification to end it. (Because defending discrimination against a minority sounds better than if the plaintiff was white)
The evidence for discrimination against Asians is abundant.
Not from what I have seen. It depends on the school, because especially in the Western U.S. Asians are given more scholarship money overall than whites. U.C. Berkley posts their numbers sometimes if you would like to see. I don't know much about the East side though, or other countries.
As a recent Asian male U.C. Berkeley graduate, that is only true for merit based scholarships. Need based or race based aka welfare heavily disfavors us.
Not true, at least where I was at . Worked at college in California back in 2007 working in admissions. White males are the lowest when it comes to rating FTE. FTE = Full time equivalent.
It's true that it's actually very different in California. In fact, they made affirmative action illegal in the whole state (though a few colleges do ignore it).
Here's an article describing that.
Asians have actually got the admissions/scholarship discrimination factor worse
Not an American. Can you explain this for me?
In America, we have a policy known as Affirmative Action active in hiring processes and college admissions. Affirmative action gives advantages to minorities that are supposedly disadvantaged, for example black people and Latinos. However, Asians are actually disadvantaged by this system, and it is harder for them to get admitted into a college than it is for any other race.
The race-blind scholarship solution should bring better return-on-investment / R-O Scholarship than race specific ones due to a more competitive (need based) applicant pool.
But it doesn't please the people advocating for "oppressed" societal groups.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but tbh, I think it's fine. Colleges want diversity in their schools and (btw this might seem racist but I have to do research for this stuff for my classes) there are more wealthy white people than there are black which although isn't very nice, is true. So if the majority of the people that can afford it are white - this is partly hypothetical - they have to give some scholarships to a lower demographic which probably just has a wider variety of races. And yes, I know that the old white men shouldn't have power and this is a bad for society and all of that stuff but it's true and when talking about these subjects, you have to put facts over everything else.
Sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying, I am so tired. Comment on this and I'll respond!
So would a scholarship program based on income/wealth be a better answer? If the majority of minorities have less wealth, it would still address the primary concern of the initiative while not excluding someone based on race because of the majority of white people who have more wealth.
Schools do this now. For instance, at one law school in NJ, they have a "minority student's program" (MSP). You apply to the school the regular way or via MSP. To qualify for MSP all you need to show is some hardship you endured in your life. Race doesn't factor in. The result is many minorities get in via MSP, but so do many white students. Going the MSP route makes you eligible for certain programs for additional tutoring, interviews and financial assistance.
So can we expand that program? You shouldn't just completely block off someone's hardship because they are of a certain race or ethnicity. It goes against regulation that already exists.
So would a scholarship program based on income/wealth be a better answer?
Need-based scholarships are a thing.
So then expand on those programs or make a federal need based scholarship.
More minorities by percentage are in lower economic classes.
Only about 13% of Americans are black, for example. But 70% are white. Even if just a quarter of white people were below some income threshold that you picked, and 99%% of black people were below it, you'd still have more white people who qualify.
The point of the scholarships explicitly isn't to go to those who need them. It's to fix the wealth and education gaps that exist between different races. And, yes, for colleges to showcase a more diverse student body.
So instead of making sure all those who need the help financially, you discriminate and only give to minorities despite the fact that there are people in terrible wealth disparity regardless of race?
There are more white people than there are black people in America. There are more poor whites than poor blacks in total numbers the same as there are more rich whites than rich blacks.
The percentage of poor to each race population is Where you can examine for the argument. your statement on total numbers is inaccurate.
Per capita
You're absolutely right. And the fact that the dude you responded to used "oppressed" in quotes is end of fucking discussion stupid. We're not saying it's worse for black people now than in the 1960s, or 1860s. But... If you're black in America you're gonna be followed around the average store. You will have some, hopefully limited, experiences of someone screaming at you or calling you the n word for no real reason.
You get really used to that.
It's really easy to say as a white person that because the type of racism that exists now isn't as tangible as the racism that used to happen. People argue over what is and isn't racist but the real problem is every day stereotypes and negative presuppositions about other people based on race.
Scholarships for black kids only, or for native Americans only, usually come from someone or a family who has uniquely encountered those unique problems and want to give a path for someone like them to have an easier time.
Why did you put "oppressed" in quotes?
That's not the point of the race-specific scholarships tho, is it?
Theres no point to discriminatory scholarships. Either one has merit worth financial backing or they dont, skintone isn't a factor.
I thought the point was to bring up the lowest segment of society so we can all grow together and not have a problematic division of classes.
So bring up the lowest of society as a whole. Skintone is irrelevant.
There is a point, you just don't agree with it. The point is to help people that have historically not been able to receive as quality an education become more educated. I don't personally agree that this is something we should be doing, but you're objectively wrong if you say there's no point.
False. Blacks are much more likely to drop out.
Because they keep being let into schools for which they are under-prepared and under-qualified for the curriculum, setting them up for failure.
Yeah but somebody gotta fill them diversity quotas they swear don't exist
The source is the fact that blacks and hispanics graduate college at a substantially worse rate than whites and Asians and are let in with lower GPA's and test scores. A group of Asians are literally suing Harvard over this as we speak.
What you've written, is not a source.
Asians do well in America because America only lets in Asians who are smart/wealthy - here is a brief explanation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg1X1KkVxN4.
In the following statement, you are suggesting that both races drop out BECAUSE they have a lower GPA on acceptance. That is causation. Do you have a source proving that GPA entry grades are the key reason for their dropouts? Or is it just your opinion?
Blacks are much more likely to drop out [] because they keep being let into schools for which they are under-prepared and under-qualified for the curriculum, setting them up for failure.
Seriously, how do you know it's not to do with their income levels? Their parent's income levels? Teacher racism? Fellow student racism? The GPA and drop out rates alone are not enough to prove causation. But I'm sure you're educated enough to know this right?
Also maybe you can clarify what you mean by under-prepared? As in they didn't have a school uniform?
Thank you. Some of these comments were making my brain hurt.
Read through this study and tell me there aren't different expectations for different races in selective admissions processes. It's super dense but the best unbiased and informative source I've found on the topic to date. Here's just a snippet regarding SAT scores of admitted applicants if you don't feel like reading through the whole thing:
Average scores for applicants in each race/ethnic group are as follows: white (1347), African American (1202), Hispanic (1230), Asian (1363), and other races (1322).
Yeah people forget that blacks followed by Hispanics have the highest drop out rates.
Blind would result in more whites since they are historically and statistically better educated and come from more-likely-to-succeed backgrounds. A superstar from an inner city black school might get passed up by average kids from the suburb private schools.
If you want to talk ROI then you should consider the institutional racism that kept non-whites back for decades. Whites have centuries of compounding gains through more educated parents educating better educated children and giving them a bigger leg-up in life.
Blacks especially didn't have that. This is a way to help that. Equal may not be as equal as you think, and it's definitely not equitable.
Asians perform better than white students. It's harder for them to get into med school than white students.
I've also seen white people get denied it because diversity and stuff. But yeah, race should not be a factor.
Asians have entered the chat.
I heard that Asians are quite discriminated, most universities favour blacks. Is it true?
Yes. There was some kind of thing at Harvard where they didn't take as many Asians because they "took too many spots" since they were doing so well? I don't know if it actually happened but that just annoys me.
A few months ago it was discovered that some universities had an internal point system for admissions. It was basically their grades (especially SATs) multiplied by a constant.
Thing is, the constant for black people was >1, those for whites was <1 and for asians even lower than whites.
Totally not discriminatory.
A few months ago? I remember reading this years ago. Something like Asians having their SAT scores docked 50 points. Hispanics gaining like 150 and African Americans gaining like 200.
It happened. A bunch of them sued over it. Case is called Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard.
Sounds interesting.
Seriously, talk about oppression.
Once of the greatest colleges; now on collision course with reality.
AOC suggested doing the same thing at Stuyvesant High School because there aren't enough black and latino kids enrolled. For those who don't know, Stuyvesant High School is a highly prestigious school in NY which only admits the highest academically rated students. Strictly merit based.
The school is about about 74 percent Asian, 18 percent white, 3 percent Latino, and 1 percent black, with 4 percent identifying as multiracial.
Am Asian, can confirm.
As an Asian college student, it depends where you decide to go: small Christian college in the South? Probably will love you. Large university in the north? Yeah good luck. Overall, yeah it's not easy and I'm not even off the boat- I'm adopted. But because I check a box, I'm automatically slated differently. Colleges love to check the diversity box but some more than others. That reason alone could have deterred me from applying but my ACT score did that for me.
Hey! But your loss of hard work is ok for the sake of diversity! :) /s
That's pretty much what I felt hahaha
Username checks out
My mom told me to not check Asian while applying to colleges.
It's a shame that she had the right idea.
I didn't apply as Asian in any of my apps to college and just put down Caucasian because of two things:
1) My name allows me to 100% pass on paper as white due to being bi-racial
2) My grades would look better as coming from an "average white kid with decent grades and a good SAT" vs "an underperforming asian student".
It must've worked cause I got into the university I wanted
All my siblings did the same thing. Would love to see those acceptance graphs that track GPA and SATs and have them factor in race too.
This is how to destroy the system.
I mean, not every Asian can do this, mostly just hapas.
I did it, but for those who don't have a white-sounding last name it would seem to be more difficult, especially if there's an interview involved.
Here's to hoping the discrimination lawsuit holds up against the ivy leagues.
Damn I should've done that lol. I'm even mixed. My grades and test scores would look really good.
Yes. Asians are discriminated in SAT scores and college admissions even more than white students, because Asians on average have the highest scores and grades across the board.
Yes. And if you want to maintain faith in the medical system don't look at accepted MCAT scores by race.
That's fucked.
As an Asian in a big, competitive Asian American community, I've heard many an Asian mom complain about this. Its not uncommon for someone to change their legal name to something more Western-sounding when they get their citizenship for the sake of getting jobs or getting into college. Replacing Asian names with Christian English ones, making last names have more Western spellings, etc. (Example: Jiyeon Paek to Jennifer Beck)
I wonder if it's all asians or just east asia. Does it matter if I'm from a small asian country?
Yes, anecdotal but two of my good friends both applied to the same top school in our state - one was a Asian (Philippines) woman and the other a white male. Both had similar resumes but hers was objectively better - higher GPA, more extracurriculars, more AP classes, better SAT. She was salutatorian and he was maybe top 25% in the class or so. He got accepted, and she was waitlisted. I don't remember if she did eventually get in because she accepted an offer to her second choice school after being so upset at the situation.
White people: Scholarships and admissions should be based on merit, not race!
[Spots open up]
Better qualified Asians: Dont mind if we do.
White people: [surprised pikachu face]
Race should never be a factor. Affirmative action can actually harm minorities, because it devalues their accomplishments in school. You should be accepted into a school based on merit, basing it on your race is just plain racism.
Yup. Pushes people into judging people by race in the real world. A black doctor vs a white/asian doctor...which would you trust is the smartest at first glance? We've automatically created the idea that the black doctor was given an advantage due to his race, which means he didn't really earn it, and not as good as the other options.
Look at work situations. Why should it matter what race you are in the job application? It's blantant how much longer it takes to let a black employee go than non-black employee.
My uncle deals with this daily when having to fire someone of a different color. His favorite line is " were you this color when we hired you", and when they say yes, he just shuts the book on them and sends them on their way. He doesn't play the race card BS.
You might want to take a look at yourself. I've never assumed one doctor to be smarter than another based on the color of their skin. Your last sentence about it taking longer to fire a black employee compared to a non-white is an argument I have never heard before.
Just because a black doctor may have gotten a scholarship to help pay for school doesn't change the fact he took the same classes, at the same school, to get the same degree. I'm not sure how you equate getting financial support to not really earning his degree.
We've automatically created the idea that the black doctor was given an advantage due to his race,
I didn't realize you could tell one black doctor who received a scholarship based on race from another black doctor who busted ass and paid for school on his own...Fascinating.
You should be accepted into a school based on merit, basing it on your race is just plain racism.
But how do you define "Merit"?
I know this is about PRIVATE scholarship funds, who can award scholarships to whoever they want, but every time Affirmative Action is brought up, this is always said, but never explained by their proponents.
So let's say we have Student A and Student B.
Student A goes to private school, has tutors, and doesn't work part time because his family doesn't need him too. He has a 3.6 GPA, 29 ACT, and is president of multiple clubs.
Student B goes to public school, self-taught everything, and has to work 20-30 hours a week at a part-time job so that his family can get by, and is a member of a few clubs. He has a 3.4 GPA and a 25 ACT.
So who's smarter? What if I told you that Student B had a 120 IQ, and Student A had a 105 IQ?
Again, a Merit-based system should be the default, and you know that higher level schools like Harvard and Yale are going to take Student A over B because of the "better merits". However, no know asks what is the value of each "merit" in the system. Harvard wants the future power brokers of America to go their school, so they will take the kid who is the "President" of clubs, rather than a member. But why isn't the 20-30 hours/week working part-time valued as "merit"? Because it's not school related? But how is a poor student supposed to show merit when they have to survive?
A Merit-based system would be perfect, if everything was equal. But that's not how the world works. It is not equal, and a lot of that inequity is based on race. Europeans have been on North America for 410 years at this point. For 360 of those years, Black people were under legal discrimination and/or enslavement. Only about 55 years (and that's being super generous) has Black Americans been free to enjoy the benefits of America. We still have black Americans alive who's Grandparents were slaves. And Gen Z's grandparents dealt with Jim Crow. And, more likely than not, Student B is going to be a person of color.
Not to mention the benefits of a diversified class for the students, so they can learn how to interact with different cultures and be respectful of others. I know, crazy right? Education is more than just test scores, it's the entire experience.
But what about Asians? My dad came to the us with only a couple of dollars, no connections in the country, and no university acceptance. His family back in India was also very poor, yet he worked hard to get into college. Why should a black person who had been living in the country with equal rights for 30+ years get an advantage over my dad just because of their race?
I'm curious, do you also feel that immigrants to India should have access to the programs and resources that have been developed to support students from scheduled castes?
I think your underlying prejuidicial and false assumption is that student B will be black, while student A will be white or Asian. I don't think OP, or most people who complain about this sort of thing have an issue with underprivileged poor people getting preferential treatment in college selection. But if the goal was to help the poor and underprivileged that can be done without looking at race. I think a better example would be to have 2 students. Student A, and Student B both are poor, both had the same opportunity in school the only difference between the two is that Student A is black, and Student B is white or Asian. In our current system Student A is given preferential treatment due solely to their race. Which pretty much is the definition of racism.
THANK YOU, you understand what this is about. Sure in a perfect world race shouldn't matter. But the fact is that we don't like in a perfect world. Just because everyone CAN succeed doesn't mean everyone has the same chance at succeeding. I would like a white student that complains about these things to have to like the life of some of these minority students for even a week. Some of them have to travel on public transportation for over an hour every morning to get to school because the city outlined their district to force them to go to the underfunded public school further away because they will hurt the learning experience of the wealthier white kids at the school down the street. Once they get to school, they often have underpaid teachers that aren't the best teachers available. They learn in crowded classrooms that sometimes don't even have windows. They sometimes have to split the gym with the lunchroom because they can't have both due to the space. Their books are outdated and they don't have newer computers to learn on like the Rich schools . They don't have as many advanced programs or sports. Then they have to go back home on public transportation and once they are old enough they usually have to start working after school. Once they get home from work, it's time to help take care of their siblings.
Ya at face value we should all be looked at equally when it comes to school. But if you try to convince yourself that we are looked at equally when it comes to life you are flat out wrong.
And YES I understand there are poor white people that could be in this situation. And YES I understand that there are rich black people. But that is the not average case. White people weren't oppressed for 300+ years either in this country.
Things can't always be taken at face value
100% this.
I always wonder how the long game pans out after getting that privilege because of the color of their skin. A job in the real world doesn't care about your feelings. What a wakeup call.
The school I went to had scholarships for Italian and Irish students, it's not just a minority thing.
Yeah l was denied a bunch cuz i'm a white male and it's fucking annoying.
How do you know that you were denied for that reason? If you're from the US, the college almost certainly wouldn't have let you know that that was the case.
The concept of incorporating affirmative action was a mistake.
See this is why I think I lucked out by having a Hispanic last name but looking white as all hell. I qualify for alot of ethnic restricted scholarships without being subject to racial discrimination based on appearances.
This actually happened in a competitive program I'm in. In order to keep a good "diversity" those with lower GPAs and scores who were black were able to get in with a lower score. A girl received an extra exam to make help her pass the class to stay in the program, none of the white students got that treatment. Many Caucasian students did not get in despite having higher GPAs and scores than some of the black students. I go to a school that is 85% white so it's frustrating to see your friend with almost the same scores as you not get in because they need to keep the program diverse. It's a nursing program so it's even more frustrating to see people working their butt off but getting the short end of the stick because the school requires it.
If you're talking about financial aid then yes, racial bias is ridiculous as it should only be based on income and financial status.
Scholarships are almost all private, however, and run by organizations that tend to have their own agenda, usually uplifting specific communities whether it be as general as the black community or as specific as Japanese youth in creative fields. It's not discrimination, more like selective care. You wouldn't go tell someone who donated to an animal shelter that they don't care about orphans.
This is the right answer.
But then a private scholarship aimed for whites only would be publicized by all left media and claimed as racist.
Have you looked and seen if there are any? Or are you just making an assumption based on your preconceived ideas?
There are not.
Well I read an article a while back that said that Harvard makes it harder with certain entry exams as well as ACT/SAT scores for Asians to get in. It may have been WSJ so if manage to find it it may be behind a paywall but I'll try to check for it since I'm sitting at an airport.
this isn't the same article but here's one thing talking about Yale. it does reference the other article I originally was talking about.
I did not before hand. I was simply from the notion that you can't be racist to whites. I did search them up and they one of the top articles is, "why to not apply to college of you're white and male." So yes.
I won an Irish American scholarship, no one would call that racist/ethnocentrist
I wouldn't call it racist. I would call it ethnocentrist.
That said, a private organization gets to use its private property as it sees fit, racism/ethnocentrism or not.
Because it kind of would be? The reason there are scholarships aimed at minority communities is because they have historically been denied access to college. One of the highest indicators of wether a person will go to college is if their parents went, and scholarships give people a leg up and might help reverse the effects of past discrimination that still linger today.
White people have (in the United States at least) not faced discrimination at such a large scale, she only real reason for a "white only" scholarship would be to exclude people because of their race.
That's a scholarship for males of European descent. There are more examples. Could you point to any "left media" article condemning these?
If you want to start some sort of organization to help disenfranchised (specifically white) children go to college and then privately find the funding either through your own efforts of fundraising or your own money, and then make your own scholarship for white kids, theres nothing stopping anyone from doing that.
But nobody does because that would be ridiculous just like this post
Why is it when someone, somewhere, for SOME REASON gives a minority help, white people lose their shit?
Well yeah because the dynamics between whites and other races is really skewed by history.
Like if this were LoTR or something and elves historically kept humans as slaves and systemically blocked them from gaining any societal power and only allowed them to live in shitty hamlets while the elves get their crazy forest kingdoms, it would be pretty fucking bad for the elves to sponsor an "elves only" scholarship to their universities.
Counter-example: it took me all of 30 seconds to google and find a scholarship for kids of Irish decent who live in Connecticut. That's pretty white and I definitely don't find it racist.
You're 100% right
Literally just got a scholarship earlier today for being from a specific country. It's only $500 but still. To be fair, it is from our church so it's not that bad, but still, it is pretty dumb, but it's the choice of whoever is giving the money to give it to whoever they want
Discrimination is ok if it is from private money..ok. I can agree with that..but please lets not change the name of things. Pure and simple discrimination.
That's like saying because I give money to my children but not anyone else's children it's discriminatory. A lot of these race/country specific scholarships are funded by communities and people of the same race/ethnicity as a way to give back and help those in the same walk of life have assistance getting through what should be free education. Conservatives want this talking point to be true yet don't want free education for all.
EDIT: spelling
It's not the fault of a colored person that colored people like to help other colored people.
Is this a Popular or Unpopular opinion? Please reply to this comment with either 'popular' or 'unpopular'
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A lot of people will argue that being black in America automatically puts you at disadvantage in the college process and that simple fact is true. The issue with affirmative action though is the fact that when it's done purely along racial lines, rich black families benefit more than poor black families because they have the means to give their children the best education, extra curricular opportunities, standardized test tutors, etc...
Using a more complex equation to figure out who should receive need based federal aide would help not only poor white families but would also help poor black families as well. France uses an equation to factors in race, geography, family income, and a litany of other factors and generally sees a more fair college process than the states.
The heart of the issue is whether affirmative action should be about reparations for years of racial misgivings or if it should be about uplifting the poor in general.
The question is whether we want colleges to be about social equity, like high schools are, and admit people randomly/by need (or just have required college and most people go to community college), or if we want to have colleges to educate our society.
There is an interesting study here,
...in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.
Interesting, but how is that relevant?
In regards to scholarships and enrollment, Asians have it even worse than whites. This is because of Affirmative Action. u/borotunsa is bringing it up because OP is talking about whites but didn't mention Asians, who also suffer discrimination because of race, usually to an even worse degree.
Because we're fucking smart and the world knows it
No it's because America ran a campaign in Asia saying "hey, rich successful Asians come on over here" so now us Americans are like "wow Asians sure are rich and successful"
well asia is 60% of the world population so I'd hope you're all at least that smart
Ok, but how is the degree of racism any important? You have to create a distinct line or people will see no limits. Racism is racism. Lynching is far worse than affirmative action and such, but they are both racist and shouldnt be tolerated.
white California adults
We Asians also have this problem. I grew up "in the hood", was dirt fucking poor. My sisters all made straight A's, and had very difficult times getting into any "prestigious" colleges. They ended up just going to run of the mill state colleges, only my oldest sister received any type of scholarship and it wasnt for very much. You dont know how many times i heard them say "damn i wish i was hispanic or black" looking through college forms. I just went to a few years in a community college and ended up going into a trade. If you do happen to be hispanic or black, take advantage of the system while you can, get into a a good college desperate to fill their minority quotas and rake in that scholarship money.
did the people in your school score better than average on standardized testing and grades, on average?
yOu CaNt bE rAcIsT aGaInSt WhItE PeOpLe
~90% of reddit uses this logic.
Individuals can be racist, but it doesn't have the same effect as structural racism. The statement "there is no (structural) racism against white people" is true, the statement "you can't be racist against white people" is false.
In real world terms, there are no areas where no landlord would rent to white people, even though individual landlords might be racist and reject you, you can be reasonably sure that someone else in the same street won't. The same isn't true for black people.
The existence of scholarships exclusively for black people doesn't mean that no other scholarships are available to you. In the other direction though, a lot of the scholarships are available almost exclusively to white people, not because there is an explicit rule, but because there is a structural requirement that can only be fulfilled by a group that is predominantly white (e.g. a degree from a specific school form that only people living in a certain area can attend, and housing in that area is available only to whites because nobody would rent or sell to black people).
tl;dr: there is individual and structural racism, these are different things.
Uhh, yeah, it's discrimination, but a ton of scholarships are from private individuals or organizations, which are entirely allowed to discriminate on whom they choose to give free money to. There's no reason private individuals or organizations shouldn't be able to have any qualifiers they want on a scholarship, even if it's distasteful or immoral. If the scholarship is on behalf of a body that is bound by anti-discrimination laws, then sure, discrimination in scholarships should not be acceptable in that particular instance.
You almost had it, the way OP worded it makes it seem like the scholarships in his mind are "NO WHITES ALLOWED" or something like that. Completely wrong, they tend to be for a single specific minority group. If it's for Hispanics then no asians, blacks or whites are allowed. VICE VERSA
"Uhh, yeah, it's discrimination, but a ton of restaurants are owned by private individuals or organizations, which are entirely allowed to discriminate on whom they choose to serve food to. There's no reason private individuals or organizations shouldn't be able to have any qualifiers they want on a customer, even if it's distasteful or immoral." Amazing how the meaning changes so much by changing a few words.
Scholarships are not businesses, they are private entities giving money to privately chosen folks.
By your logic, inheritances, gifts, and bequeathing items, are racist.
"I like
cake killing puppies"
Amazing how changing a few words can change the meaning.
There is a difference between regulating commerce and regulating gifts.
That doesn't work.
In a business, you serve the public, or it's not a traditional business, it's a private club.
College is a private club. It does not openly serve the public without a long application process.
The correct answer to OPs opinion is that college is horse shit, and students shouldn't need to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, or get lucky for a scholarship. It should be fucking free.
Thing is there are no exclusive scholarships for white men. So while every other race has scholarships and women have scholarships, white males can only go after scholarships that anyone is allowed to get.
Meaning white males have to fight everyone for a scholarship, while everyone else can go after the scholarships exclusive to them and the generic scholarships for everyone.
And if there is a scholarship for the white male, it's racist and sexist...
If you're white and go to a HBCU your eligible for scholarship for being White
white men have not experienced the same historical discrimination as other demographics in America
So now white men can be put at a disadvantage? That's not an argument. The past is gone and I had nothing to do with it.
Sure there are, it's called being a legacy admission.
Admission != Scholarship, and private colleges are there to earn money, which legacy admitted kids typically come from families with tons of money and large donations. First gen college white kids don't get any of that advantage and get many against.
Other races still have legacy admission
And when there is a white only scholarship, its racist. Which is true, but racism goes all ways.
You know there's scholarships for people with European ancestry. Like what does it mean to be "white", what shared culture do white peoples have? White people are not a monolith. Europe is FULL of diverse ethnicities that provide scholarships. I know of someone who recently got a grant for being both a media artist AND Latvian. Heck there's even scholarships for being tall (something I believe a lot of men have the advantage in). You gotta search for it like many people search for other scholarships for their own ethnicities/gender. I feel like people are mad about something else because the information is out there.
PS: if you're wondering why there scholarships for black people and how that's different, I'll briefly explain. A lot of times when people refer to black people, they are referring to African Americans or those who can't trace their roots back to a nationality/ethnicity - that's the shared history/culture of many. On the other hand there are a HUGE number of African ethnicities/nationalities out there, and they too can have scholarships for their own. Like white people, black people (and all other groups) are not a monolith and there's something else going on here in these comments.
Why are we arguing about scholarships when many countries have free university education? Asking the more important questions
Free uni education isn't always a good thing. In some countries that offer free higher education opportunities people become so obsessed with it that every employer asks for uni diploma even for janitor's or junior salesman's positions.
Employers do that anyway - hell I've seen entry level positions that require 2-3 years experience. I mean chicken - egg bullshit with companies is just a given now.
Sensible countries with free university education don't let everybody in. You have to be reasonably intellectually promising to get into interesting programmes.
Free does not equal quality. You have the best unis in the world. Even if you don't do that great in high school you can get in a top 250 uni. Where I live, you have 4 that are pretty good, but not even in top 500.
You can't pick whatever major you want. There is a limited number of candidates/major. Sometimes you have 14 candidates fighting for one spot.
The buildings are old and don't look that great. We don't have huge campuses or the best teachers in the world. The living quarters are horrible. You have roaches in your rooms and in most cases there is only one common bathroom/floor!
But hey, at least is "free".
Everyone knows that "free" in this context means taxpayer funded and free for students. Like the free research and development large corporations get from government research or the free public services they receive.
Well, America is much larger than a lot of those countries— and has a lot more college students to rely on tax dollars to compensate for. Unless you want us to end up like Brazil/Venezuela and tax the upper class until they're no longer upper class..
The US state of Georgia uses lottery money to ensure every student who can pass high school goes to college tuition free (they did at one time - not sure if this program is still going on). This put pressure on teachers to pass kids who shouldn't have passed, and apparently the colleges had no problem doing the same. I can confirm there are a lot of stupid college graduates in GA. I once worked with someone that had a master's degree , and she couldn't compose a coherent sentence.
Because America has the best universities on the planet, and people come from all over the world to study here, including Western Europe. Whatever else you can say about us, our higher education is the envy of the planet.
I agree with this generally, but with an asterisk: if a certain specific group donates the money for that scholarship or grant then I think it's ok.
I remember way back when I was applying for university there was a scholarship catalogue at our school that people were encouraged to look through to see what they were eligible to apply for. I remember there were lots of them, and I also remember that they were insanely specific: like scholarship for somebody who was of Ukrainian and Japanese descent who plays cello and is on the swim team. That kind of thing. But I don't see any problem with that. Almost all of those were some kind of memorial scholarship either in memory of a student with those specific characteristics who had an untimely death in some accident, or they were set up in somebody's will after they passed away and conditions for getting the scholarship were that the recipient be like the person who left the money. Many many organizations also have scholarships where conditions include be the kid of an employee of this company; or Mensa has a scholarship program for its members.
If somebody puts up money for a scholarship and says this money should go to only kids that have a specific characteristic; even if that characteristic is race , I have no problem with that. It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it.
OP doesn't care or doesn't understand.
"If somebody puts up money for a scholarship and says this money should go to only kids that have a specific characteristic; even if that characteristic is race , I have no problem with that. It's their money and they can do whatever they want with it."
Agree. but lets not change the name of things. That is pure discrimination and anyone can do with their money whatever they want but they should not receive public funding if they discriminate based on race.
No it's not pure discrimination.
Do you even know what discrimination means?
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
These scholarships (the vast vast majority which are private and not public) are to help people who are in need of help because of the discrimination they deal with every damn day in every aspect of their life based on the color of their skin.
White privilege is a real thing in this country. How can you not see this?
Yeah I can agree with that for the most part, but I have a big problem when colleges discriminate with enrollment on the basis of race and diversity. Meritocracy should be the only route for enrollment. Scholarships are just how you pay for college.
American race politics is hilariously awful...
Wait until you hear the people on /r/Australia whinging about aboriginals having access to private scholarships as well.
I'm Australian, that's really stupid too.
Not going to be a popular sentiment here, but the idea of a scholarship for - say - black people, is to provide a boost to a community that traditionally has not had solid economic foundations. Parent doesn't have money, doesn't go to school, doesn't get educated. Doesn't get a well paying job. Has a child. Child can't get assistance from Parents, doesn't go to school, doesn't get educated. Doesn't get a well paying job.
Ideally financial aid helps a lot anyway - but it doesn't change the fact that black people are worse off in the US than white people.
I'll put it this way. If you are in a state with idk 24 well performing districts, and 1 underperforming, you give financial assistance to the underperforming one.
But this is all counterintuitive in the US right? You earn based on merit (...or inheritance).
Again. I know this won't be a well received comment.
These scholarships just straight up exclude people if they're not a specific race.
Which is racist. Exactly.
Hard agree.
Rather than race it should be based on economic background of the family. This means that its helping out those who can't afford it rather than which race they were born.
If Unis are still worried about diversity numbers, they will still give many scholarships to black people as they are often in the poorer communities.
People would just switch the narrative to be "you're letting too many poor whites in", not accounting that maybe the poor whites have better test scores than impoverished blacks.
No one is going to convince me (a white man) I didn't face discrimination when applying for scholarships/internships. I was literally told in one interview for an internship "honestly, you're the perfect candidate for the program. If a woman or POC doesn't apply, it's yours." but no I could never know what racial or sex discrimination is.
It has everything to do with poverty rates, population with college education by race and various other issues.
For example, the poverty rate for Native Americans is the highest in the country at 27.2%, African-Americans are second at 26.2%. The best way to lift people out of poverty is through education.
Furthermore, "among undergraduate students enrolled full-time/full-year in Bachelor's degree programs at four-year colleges and universities, minority students represent about a third of applicants but slightly more than a quarter of private scholarship recipients. Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students" [SOURCE]
Fact is, being white means you are more likely to get a scholarship; race based scholarships are an attempt at leveling the field for people of color which benefits of all us. Less poverty and better educated citizens is a win-win situation.
I wish i could say more but i am trying to keep Rule 5 in mind.
It's funny, the comment with actual facts and sources that contradict OP isn't responded to, but the anecdotal claims of white oppression are, interesting.
This should be at the top. It debunks this stupid post.
Only if you are not a racist... unfortunately this subred has become a circlejerk of fragile white men lately who need to dog whistle to each other to find camaraderie in their ignorance.
Oh look, actual data! Thank you for contributing something beyond anecdotes to the conversation.
That is because lately this subred has become a bunch of fragile white dudes jerking each other with veiled racist questions and commentary. Racism is based in ignorance, so unsurprisingly they don't use actual data to support their arguments.
It's like a white fallacious orgy in these comments.
I know someone who went for an interview at one of the top universities in Europe. It was with the head of the department of their chosen field. They said at the end of the interview that they really felt this person was a strong candidate for the university but ultimately, it would go no further because their priority was meeting a diversity quota.
I don't understand why A) You'd tell someone why they didn't get in, almost as if prejudice still runs through the university and the diversity quota is just an inconvenience to the heads B) Students get so emotionally invested in interviews, education is so corporate in this day and age. To that system, no matter where you go, you're a number.
Either you are making this up, or the person who told you is making this up. Universities would never, ever, tell someone, "Hey, you totally qualify, but sorry we have to fill a diversity quota." They'd be opening themselves up for a lawsuit, for starters.
This sub isn't filled with the brightest people.
Indeed. I used to be on a university admissions committee. When you looked at our applicants and our decisions, you'd think we were on a holy crusade to diversify the university. What happened though was that we'd talk to people about their expectations, and rejected those who had not even prepared for the interview under the assumption that their winning personality would be sufficient.
Only a single demographic group thinks that three people, one of them a professor, taking half an hour out of their day for an interview would be a mere formality.
I don't disagree that we have problems here. There are people that are unfairly discriminated against because of these types of policies in acceptance and grants. We need to try to address those.
That being said, those policies and scholarships have been created to help offset inequalities that are present from birth. I usually find it is helpful to create an extreme example and work backward to find out where the benefits start to get lost...
So let's take two hypothetical students....
City Dude grows up in a bad part of the inner city, is from a poor family, works his ass off in school while working a job and playing sports, etc. He is desperate to make something of himself. He doesn't have tutors or decent teachers, so his grades are only as good as the recourses available.
Suburb Dude is from a wealthy family that has tutors, nanny's, personal coaches, school connections, great teachers at a solid college prep school whose goal it is to get their kids in to top tier universities. He comes out with a better GPA, better test scores, and has an essay that is polished (and maybe half written) by his english teacher who has a masters in the field.
Let's say social engineering isn't the primary motivation (although that of course is the purpose of enacting legislation in this regard at the beginning). You're on the admissions board. Which kid is more deserving of a slot? I think this is where we run in to an issue. One has better scores, GPA, essay's, letter's of rec, etc. The other one is black and from a poor family. Well if I were trying to chose a student that will succeed at the university, then go on to make an impact in the world and/or a lot of money which will help the university advertise and grow its endowment, I'd look at these two candidates as pretty equal. If we push this out to the extreme (WARNING>>>CRAZY EXTREME FAKE EXAMPLE) and wind up with a lazy kid that was handed everything and managed to get good scores and everything was done but doesn't give a shit, and the other did it all themselves, worked exponentially harder than the other one, etc...that would not show up on paper. Only in the "poor, black" category would you be able to make some assumptions.
My point is, the idea is solid. You need to have a way to bring up solid candidates who don't measure up on paper but will perform. But the problem is, black doesn't mean poor which is where it gets all messed up. Same with women. In todays academic system, you have advantages from the time you're in 1st grade on if you're female. And yet, being female is largely treated like being a minority for scholarships and acceptance even though they now make up a significant majority (56%) of college enrollment.
Here's the deal...the system needs work. We took an axe to this problem 25 years ago, now we need a scalpel to fine tune a lot of the problems.
Yeah...... i grew up in suburbs and literally none of that applies to me. Instead of a nanny i got an abusive and mentally ill mother yay. /#justprivilagedwhitepeoplethings
Those are racist stereotypes. u/appretiative thinks that's okay because it's about a race he doesn't like. Don't be like u/appretiative.
Why not base it on class rather than race?
Because then some white people would get scholarships. And that would be racist /s
Some places do.
Because there are more poor whites than any other poor group, and I think a lot of people don't gaf about them
or even a combination of income and grades.
We do already. It's called Financial Aid.
Assuming everyone of the same skin color had the same life experience is incredibly insulting and borderline racist.
You're right. Which is why that is no longer a good indicator to factor in to these programs.
If the city guy is supposed to be a minority, you should know I'm black and a 2nd gen immigrant and fall much more into the suburbs guy category. I still work my ass off. get good grades, at times with a tutor but they aren't doing the work for me(they hardly come by as it is by choice). I personally think I should have a running in the scholarship eligibility— my parents aren't paying for college like everyone else. I understand class, but not race.
My college heavily promoted 'city dude' and other economically disadvantaged students in its admissions process. Economic considerations are the biggest part of affirmative action programs. They promote racial minorities too to some degree because they want a certain racial composition in their community to ensure diverse perspectives and provide an integrated experience for their students. But just because the colleges promote racial minorities to some degree does not mean they don't promote 'city dude.' The system isn't mutually exclusive.
Disagree with racial points if you want, but it's weird to me that everyone on this thread is arguing it should be economic as if it isn't economic. It already primarily is economically based (and whether you are first-generation.)
Yea even 20 years ago parent income was considered. I think a lot of this is straw man bullshit to be honest. Nonetheless, it's worth the discussion I think to calm the angry masses down that think the world is out to get them.
But its unreliable.
Didnt stop Shaun King
Id much rather see location based scholarships rather than race based ones. Depressed areas are generally the main cause of continuous poverty, not racism (although it played a big part in the past no denying it). If these areas can be uplifted then it should reduce crime. And by basing it on a non race metric it eliminates the discrimination factor.
Make it simpler: parental income. I had a buddy whose parents were Brazillian immigrants and were pretty broke, but they lived in Boca Raton. When I asked how there were poor people in Boca, he said "the help have to live somewhere." He would be disqualified under a locality test (depending on how specific it could realistically be) by living in a rich city even though his neighborhood had a gang problem.
Imagine being black. You get free SAT points, preferential treatment during college admissions, and hired for jobs you aren't even qualified for, all because of nothing but the color of your skin. Must be nice.
Your 21 day old account smacks of an alt right teenager. Congrats.
I don't understand... Are you really that ignorant and unsympathetic of what blacks have had to go through in just the last 100 years alone? Maybe direct your outrage towards the reasons why these things had to be implemented in the first place
I think you're looking past that the race based scholarship stuff you're talking about is there because often non white people make up poor neighborhoods and is used to help those that don't have the money to go to college, it's trying to contract the discrimination that put those people there in the first place, we should change it tho to a system that takes in account where someone came from and what resources they didn't have or had less of.
So it's racist against poor whites then because in every western country there alot of those 2.
Yall took the country and control most everything else. Damn.
Right? White privilege allows them to complain about race based scholarships,calling them "unfair". But we mention "systematic suppression" and they're like "i dont think it really exist anymore"
You know what you should be complaining about rather than affirmative action? Legacy admissions. They're far worse and basically guarantee elite education sometimes to completely undeserving folks. It's like monarchy except for education
THIS! why does everyone cry about AA admissions when legacy admissions are primarily the reason deserving folks don't get accepted??
This UPO is posted every 3rd week. There ARE white only scholarships, you just don't hear about them very often.
I agree with this for the same reason I think social programs like Affirmative Action need to be changed.
The black kid who comes from a wealthy family doesn't need some special scholarship/aid to be able to attend a good college/university, but the white kid from a poor family trying to make a better life for themselves definitely needs a little help.
Every social program should be need based, not race based. Yes, there are people from disadvantaged racial groups that do need help, but there are also other racial groups who have individuals just as poor that deserve help as well.
Poverty is colorblind. Hunger is colorblind. Depression is colorblind. The ability to suffer or live in awful conditions isn't exclusive to certain racial groups/ethnicities.
Weird, I'm black and was upper middle class and didn't get scholarships. I've been told by plenty of upset white people here that I get money and scholarships simply for being black meanwhile they get nothing? Please show me proof of rich black students getting more money and poor white students getting nothing?
Unpopular. It's meant to boost minorities that aren't as inherently privileged as white people.
I love how white people all of a sudden care about discrimination when it doesn't benefit them for once.
Duh lol
I do agree with you...to some extent. Most of the time they have the scholarships to encourage minority groups to get a proper education.
I get into this argument all the time with my my liberal friends. Reparations and affirmative action are racist ideas. Make social programs to help all poor people leave poverty, regardless of their race.
Son here you go
Were taking a trip back to 1961 where jim crow wouldn't end for another 4 years affirmative action just passed to keep college from discriminating against non whites/women (yes including white women" and a law that be defined by the dictionary as "an active effort to improve the employment or educational opportunities of members of minority groups and women (yes white women)"
affirmative action are racist ideas
Reparations are a non-issue, but I do wonder what your conception of affirmative action is. A lot of people have large misconceptions about it.
You must really hate legacy admissions, or those whose parents make big donations to get them in
The reason why race based scholarships exist is because non white people have a higher chance of not getting accepted to college even with similar or better grades. Similar to how a guy with a "street" name like Jamal or Jermaine will have a harder time getting a job interview than somebody named John or mike.
is because non white people have a higher chance of not getting accepted to college even with similar or better grades
The exact opposite is true. In order to have the same chance of being accepted as a black person, a white person has to have considerably higher grades.
IMO, race-blind and gender-blind should be the norm in all kinds of things, from employment to scholarships and everything else academically and professionally too. TBH, this should have been a no-brainer and implemented everywhere a long time ago.
Racism and sexism against white men is seen as socially acceptable nowadays so we are going to see more of this in the near future.
Depends on scholarship, if it is from the government it should be based from student's performance or needs(pwd, poverty, etc.), but if it is from a private entity, they can give it to whomever they fucking like.
Can we get back to a point where making decisions and assumptions based on race is BAD??
This "Progressive" movement is ass backwards and encourages broad judgements based on race while screeching racism. Openly advocating for racism. I hate it. Its low IQ and destroying the US.
Another thing to consider are "legacy points," where a student gets points on the application because a parent or grandparent attended there.
It's unfair, but schools do it because legacies are more likely to donate $$.
Blacks aren't eligible for legacy points at a lot of places because they were banned from attending until the 50s, and shadow-banned (really couldn't access the school or pay for it, or were harassed away) for a couple decades after that.
Fortunately for me, my pale skin may be deceptive because I just found out that I'm 1/112 Native American! I am an oppressed minority. Where is my scholarship.
I like how having an un-researched or unsubstantiated opinion is now what makes up r/unpopularopinion. Scholarships are usually provided by private organizations or interests groups and of course they have to focus on a group. It's like expecting every charitable organization to donate to every single cause - at some point you've gotta choose to focus your focus
Yeah but many minorities don't get the chances in education that most white people do. thats literally because of discrimination that in turn made it harder for minorities to get just as good education as white kids decades ago.
You weren't gonna get a scholarship anywhow lol
If a group suffers from a social inequity, due to the situation of said group in our society, I deem it fitting to create an artificial inequity to counter that of our society.
That said, many times these measures fail because they don't approach the problem in the right way imo.
I feel like some black and Latino communities get stuck in a poverty cycle with parents who don't get them tutoring when they fall behind (or even encourage them to study in the first place) and if a scholarship for one inspires others in that community and family to better themselves, I'm all for that.
This sub should be called popular-20-40s-single-white-male's-opinion.
Every day it's something about things being unfair for a single white male who doesn't like children or whatever.
Please, weirdos who like eating brick or drink sea water, come back, share and save this sub.
Government financial aid is completely financial needs based.
Race based scholarships were originally made because some races are usually a disadvantage when it comes to college.
I look at private scholarships give to specific circumstances and races because the people giving them have a soft spot for that group of people. Weather it's because they were or they knew someone who was in that situation.
When I donate anything I always say "if there's a family of a special needs child (more specifically a single parent) I'd prefer that but if not then anyone who needs it". Because I am one, and I know most people don't know the financial strain on those families.
It's hard for them to work with all the doctors appointments/calls from school, lack of any kind of support, lack of government programs to help with those needs. Most people have no idea.
I feel like I'm not wrong in doing this, and just because they're thing is based on race they aren't wrong for it either.
Liberals love racism against whites
Anything "based on race" is discrimination.
I say ban it all, bet, the congressional hispanic caucus, pink history month...all of it is garbage. Embrace being human, hire the best candidate, admit the best student and reward true equality.
I had 780 community service hours in high school. I was Florida Volunteer of the Year in 2009. I had I believe a 3.9 GPA and scored pretty well on the SAT/ACT.
I am also white.
Guess how many scholarships I applied to? Guess how many scholarships I received?
If you guessed any number higher than zero, you're wrong.
Now, there was also a kid named Justin. Justin was gay, and he was black. Justin also had about a 3.9 GPA. Justin was not part of any special groups or clubs or anything, he only had the minimum required hours of 40 community service hours, but Justin's mom was also the guidance counselor at our school.
Guess how many scholarships Justin received.
Guess who also received so many scholarships that he had an excess of money and would brag about it on Facebook and Snapchat.
Guess who had to work 50+ hours a week to pay for school and bills, while going to school full time.
Guess who partied literally every night until he dropped out of school and is now a gay instagram blogger.
and now guess who's an envious little fuck making up stories?
Quite frankly I believe him.
There's a ton of financial support out there for people of color, even when it comes to the small things. I didn't have to buy my graduation gown because it was covered from the Black Student Union.
Thank you for understanding.
I must say, it was ridiculous that we were even required to buy our own cap and gown!
I'm not envious or making up stories, but you can believe whatever you want.
It's just baffling to me how it isn't considered discrimination or racist for there to be race-based scholarships.
What if I received a scholarship from a place that only gave scholarships to white people? Would that be racist? But it's okay if you're African-American, Chinese, Latino, Indian, etc.
There was a 4-page packet they handed out to all the seniors of scholarships you could apply to. I couldn't apply to a single one. I wasn't black, no one in my family was a veteran, I wasn't left-handed, I'm still not black, I wasn't blind, I wasn't hard of hearing, I wasn't in drama club, still not black with a 4.5+ GPA, I wasn't an elite athlete, and on and on and on.
I'm not mad at Justin and I'm not mad at black people or any other ethnicity. But it's straight-up discrimination. Flip the races -- would it be okay?
College scholarships imo, should be based solely on the student's inability to afford the cost. Awarding purely racial quota-based scholarships is as racist as denying someone a benefit based on their color.
Yea it should be based on class.
Can someone not post an opinion about race politics for 5 minutes
If anyone had been keeping up with the whole Varsity Blues mess knows why these are needed as they are.
Merit based is just rich based.
Or education could be free
laughs in Indian reservation
Complaining about scholarships given out selectively by privately owned entities is like complaining that your friends uncle gave his nephew a few bucks to go watch a movie and not any to you. 1. its their scholarship they can give it to who they want. 2. Why would they pick you if you have no relation to them 3. Have you ever used schooly app? you put in all your info and it selects scholarships based on your religion, race, charity work, age, current job, state you live in, skills, and a bunch of other factors. So being selected for any of these factors could be portrayed as discrimination........ if your dumb and just want to complain about how other people are spending their money not on you.
Shouldnt scholarships be based on economic situation and academic skills rather than personal traits?
This is so dumb. There are so many scholarships out there NOT for a specific group. The scholarships for certain groups are designed (ideally) to make up for the systemic disadvantages they had up to that point. It's not perfect, and it will miss some people, but overall it is a good thing. It's not like it's taking money AWAY from white people, these scholarships were often set up and endowed with this goal and would not exist otherwise.
Anecdotal: I am white and before college I was applying for scholarships and there was one with the "Tall Club". You could only apply if you were over 6'2" man or 5'10" woman. These kinds of scholarships for specific groups are everywhere.
Hi, white college student here, as frustrating as it is to not have EVERY scholarship available to us, there's a reason so many are based on race. Specifically black and latinx people have a history of being oppressed in this county and scholarships targeted directly towards those minority groups are a way to attempt to correct the financial, structural disadvantages they face (not to say white people don't as well, it just isn't based on our race when we do). There are plenty of race-blind scholarships out there if you go looking for them! Best of luck in the scholarship and applications process :)
This honestly isnt an opinion. The definition of racism is discrimination based on race.
This isn't even a case of 'Popular vs. unpopular' it's literally common sense.
I am not disagreeing and I do see where you are coming from but scholarships that seem racist are oftentimes necessary as many of the minority groups in the US at least, live in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods, go to schools that prepare them differently (often worse) simply because they do not have the funding, and ultimately enter the workforce at a younger age than the majority of the population in order to help at home.
These scholarships allow for minorities to be able to go to college without being a huge burden on their families - without them they simply could not attend.
The other way why these exist is not so much ethical as just a way to loophole the requirements or suggestions of affirmative action. If colleges offer x amount of minority scholarships then they are doing their part, whether that ends up being reflected in the makeup of the university or not.
holding minorities to a lower standard. true modern tolerance and acceptance.
No one complains about legacy students but EVERYONE has something to say about affirmative action. Most schools are still predominantly white, crying because YOU aren't as amazing as you think you are is a personal problem
Nobody gets a scholarship based on just their race. They still are evaluated based on the student's success and achievement. They are still competing to get this scholarship and there are no hand outs. (The title says "scholarships being based on race but there is no scholarship that is based on just being a certain race. You still have to be an exceptional student)
Race is an aspect included in some diversity scholarships to provide opportunities for minorities who may not have the same advantages as other groups. I never understood why providing assistance to minority groups that need it is discrimination because another majority group who is statistically more well off isn't getting the same.
Problem is that while, in a perfect world, scholarships should be based on individual merit. However, everything is not about the individual and only the individual, society is still a factor. By all metrics, there is discrimination that PoCs face that white people really dont face. If you're branded as a criminal because your parents were fleeing violence, or you see people around you shot by police who face no consequences, or you're constantly stereotyped (just edgy 'jokes' included), it effects people, especially when they're younger. There's a reason why a lot of PoCs have low college graduation rates, and since there is no inherent biological reason, we have to assume it is society and not the individual.
The response is always "well this particular race has more poverty though!" as if that couldn't be solved by just handing out scholarships based on economic status in the first place!
This opinion is popular among the intelligent. Unfortunately, most people are stupid....too stupid to see this simple truth.
That being said, giving money to certain groups for "retribution" for past offenses another common argument that is brought up by supporters of these programs. This argument is also not legitimate. Today's white people are not responsible for the enslavement of blacks 200 years ago in the US, for example. They don't owe modern day blacks anything. Likewise, modern day blacks don't owe modern day white anything. For that matter, no one person owes any one person anything.
Literally ANY criteria for a scholarship is discrimination. Even if the only criteria is attending xyz school. It discriminates against those not attending xyz school. Should we remove all criteria for discrimination?
Its racism, The financial background of the applicants family is the most relevant information. Being Black, White, Asian or any other variant is entirely irrelevant.
Wait this actually happens or is it just something someone suggested?
If you don't skew things like that blacks can't compete. They can barely get by as is.
But what about the systemic disadvantages that affect minorities more heavily than white people? Race scholarships are just a small band-aid compared to all the racist laws that have left and kept minorities down in the American "opportunity" ladder.
I mean, if they are private scholarships then it's okay. It's literally people/a company willing to give free money. So they can choose who to give it too. There's scholarships for all types of things. You just need to figure out what makes you different than the majority group of people at your university.
There's a scholarship for white men now since they're statistically the minority in college.
Many of these scholarship were started targeting specific races because those races were denied the opportunities of white people.
Baseline financial aid from the government shouldn't be affected by race in the slightest. But most scholarships are privately funded, even those routed through public universities, and they're perfectly allowed to serve whoever they want. Minorities of all kinds have historically been denied any access, then equal access, then legitimate access to higher education (I do understand that Asian/Asian descent students have different experiences) for basically all time and people are trying to right that.
It's like saying that working to cure breast cancer means you don't care about prostate cancer. Ideally we'll eventually have a solution for both, but breast cancer affects far more people far more negatively so it makes sense we'd work harder to fix that one first. Ideally no one would be financially ruined by trying to go to college, but we can only deal with one huge giant problem at a time.
"The poverty rate for Native Americans is the highest in the country at 27.2%, African-Americans are second at 26.2%. The best way to lift people out of poverty is through education.
Furthermore, "among undergraduate students enrolled full-time/full-year in Bachelor's degree programs at four-year colleges and universities, minority students represent about a third of applicants but slightly more than a quarter of private scholarship recipients. Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students" [SOURCE]
Fact is, being white means you are more likely to get a scholarship; race based scholarships are an attempt at leveling the field for people of color which benefits of all us. Less poverty and better educated citizens is a win-win situation."
Mainly yes, but private scholarships have the right to say whatever they want imo. Illustration: A successful black man that grew up in Compton and managed to get out wants to give other black kids from poor neighborhoods the chance to pursue their passion and get out of the downward spiral they're most likely heading towards. Rich people have more resources to get their kids to college, poor people don't.
Yeah, I think scholarships need to be merit based alone. There are a studies showing that race based scholarships or affirmative action end up hurting those more than it helps. Students end up in colleges and universities where they cannot compete.
Well it's a fact that minorities make less money than white Americans... I mean the least you could do is help people that NEED it. Rich people shouldn't get scholarships no matter how good they do. With that being said there should be more scholarships for white Americans living in poverty as well as minorities who can't afford education. Fuck race, let's focus on who can/can't afford it and who puts the effort into their educations.
Cool telling private organizations and donors what they can and can not do with their money. Obviously an unpopular opinion.
I might agree with you if it weren't for the fact white students still receive more scholarship dollars per capita than the races targeted by minority scholarships.
How are people saying this is popular? At least you guys think it's bullshit.
Scholarship should be based on need basis. I know many middle and upper middle class black families and they do not need preferential treatment to get in to colleges.
because reverse racism doesn't exist /s
If you go to a majority black school you are eligible to get a scholarship/grant for being a minority
This is just another victim of the equality vs. equity problem.
We also can't conflate Scholarships based on race with those based on economic disposition. It just so happens that a lot of people who need scholarships to study due to economic reasons are people of color.
People know that. But some scholarships are literally RESTRICTED to minorities. If u arent then u are literally not eligable.
Well I get that but the overwhelming majority of scholarship programs focus on helping those who have financial issues with getting an education.
Of course there are always bad eggs but to write off all programs as racist it too wrong imo
There scholarships are given out for lots of reasons not just race , there is or was one for red haired people.
How is that even a thing? Diversity quotas don't exist in universities where I live
I actually never heard of something like that happening. U.S i guess?
Agreed, they should be based on parents' socioeconomic status.
here's the thing about scholarships:
people finance them and they decide who they want to target them at.
scholarships aren't a lottery, they're specifically meant to grant chances to otherwise disadvantaged demographics.
also there's also tons of scholarships where race doesn't matter at all?
Is there "positive action" outside of USA? I don't think it is popular, even quotas in general aren't because of the "universalist" arguments (the outcome wouaïe be"stigmatisation") so this is still quite popular opinion. If it doesn't work enough to be still needed, as leveraging results are not their, this is just because of rampant racism in hiring and in scientific circles, and success in studies based on how much money you have.
Can't people create scholarships for white kids if it truly was a problem?
There should be scholarships based on parent income that's based on need. White people in poverty have a hard time getting access to education as well.
Do you get as mad about scholarships aimed at women to incentive them to get into more mail-dominated fields? Also most, if not nearly all, scholarships take grades or athletic ability into play. Many would argue that there's only so much control you have over how skilled you are in those areas to a degree due to mental/physical disabilities.
Scholarships I could less about. Those are usually private and there are scholarships for just about anything. Sports, ethnicity, left-handedness. Acceptance is where things get racist.
What about scholarships for kids with single parents? Especially if that parent has more than one kid?
Just say you identify as a black person.
You should look at South Africa's BEE system. Preference is given to black people even if they aren't as qualified as a white person when applying for a job
Not trying to dodge the issue, but if the price tag of a college degree were more affordable, we would not be fighting over scholarships to pay for it. You shouldn't have to perform like a circus monkey to get adequate funding.
On the whole though, I agree - with the caveat that private scholarships (not private schools who receive public funds - e.g. charities, churches, memorials) should be able to set their terms as they see fit. If you receive public funds, any aid you offer should have non-discriminatory criteria.
It's not discrimination unless the specific scholarship is literally for anyone who isn't white. Also, a quick search will find some white-only scholarships.
Minorities have to search and search for specific scholarships made for them by those who have access to $ and also realize there is a gap between white and colored students in attendance. It's no secret that minorities are less wealthy than white people (except asians which tend to have the most $). Caucasians receive almost all of the 'merit-based' scholarships and in turn receive most of the overall scholarships.
Minority scholarships are 'need-based' simply because they make up the least amount of students seperately and have the lowest income. They are less likely to excel in sports and hobbies, such as equestrian sports and gymnastics, which hand out merit-based scholarships.
Going to school in the U.S. is becoming more expensive each year and scholarships have a specific goal of not letting a certain race get behind and ultimately further deprive their socioeconomic status.
Scholarships are mostly privately funded, not govt our publicly funded so telling them how to spend their money is like me telling you how to spend your money.
as long as inheritances are a measure of economic affluence and not effort, this is okay because it was not the ruling classes white forefathers who had to work for free. they worked for a claim after they were PRISONER COLONISTS
I'm pretty sure the scholarships are contributions from individual people. They are allowed to donate their own money on their own terms. It only becomes a problem if it's from the government and government run schools since technically we all are paying for that, not individuals, and organizations.
What is your opinion on legacy admissions to colleges and universities?
this is a thing? wtf where is this (first guess America)
Removed: voted 79% popular


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