text:
Saturday, October 20, 2007
The Paladin Community
The paladin community is the most fractured of all the classes. There are four main factions: Holy, Protection, Retribution, and Hybrid. The different factions want different--often opposite--things and that leads to the confusing nature of paladin feedback. Each side generally champions one tree, and does not really care about the others. The only exception are the Hybrids, who generally support all three trees, but oppose efforts to overspecialize them.
The next complication is that the Holy faction is at war with the Retribution faction. Retribution derides Holy as "healbots", and Holy calls Retribution "retnoobs". If I can indulge in some armchair psychology, the reason both these factions are at each other's throats is because a paladin is both melee and healing/support. Protection and Hybrids still try do both melee and support, though in different ways. But Holy gave up melee, and Retribution gave up healing, and by attacking each other, they try to convince themselves that what they sacrificed was not of value.
So for example, the Retribution faction asked for threat reduction and increased DPS in raids. The Holy faction opposes out of habit. Protection doesn't really care, and the Hybrids are generally supportive.
Then Retribution gets permanent threat reduction, and the Retribution faction is happy. However, the way the threat reduction is implemented hurts the Hybrid ideal, and thus the Hybrids are the paladins objecting.
The final complication is race. Alliance paladins generally view the Blood Elves as interlopers, and the Blood Elves are more than happy to antagonize them back. As well, a large percentage of vocal Blood Elf paladins are Horde raiders who rerolled after seeing the effect of Alliance paladin healers. Where the Alliance paladins were sort of "pushed" to the healing side when they started raiding, the Blood Elves embraced it from the very beginning, and are often the most militant of the Holy faction. Ironically, the Horde-specific Seal of Blood is extremely good for Retribution, a fact which seriously annoys the predominantly Alliance Retribution faction.
So that's a quick guide to the paladin community, and why different paladins complain about different buffs/nerfs. I belong to the Hybrid faction, and thus I'm generally supportive of all three trees, but not of talents that overemphasize one aspect of the paladin at the expense of the others.
33 comments:
You forgot to mention that alliance pallies and belfs are usually at each other's throats as an additional layer of complexity :)ReplyDelete
You're totally correct. I've added a paragraph about faction.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous12:06 AM, October 21, 2007
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous12:28 AM, October 21, 2007
Removed and reposted for typos and edits.ReplyDelete
As a Paladin who represents a rather small amount of Paladins overall - a full Protection spec'd tank for 25 mans, I have to say that I think the change to Fanaticism is fine.
I do not think the Retribution tree should expect to be capable of tanking - sorry hybrids. I don't expect to be able to heal or do damage when I'm spec'd Protection and because I have baseline healing spells and maybe some off-healing gear. Full Retribution Paladins should not expect to be able to tank just because they wear plate. (Neither should Arms/Fury Warriors.) Tanks (even Druids tanks) are always at the bottom of the meters. And why would a tank expect to compete with DPS classes? It's ridiculous.
For the most part, neither Retribution Paladins nor Arms/Fury Warriors should be even off-tanking content beyond Heroics (or maybe Karazhan - though in my experience, non-Protection specs begin to have issues in the second half of Kara.) Not to say that it's impossible, especially if you're over-geared for an instance, but it comes down to two things. First of all, it makes it substantially harder on healers because you would like to be able to both deal damage and tank and second, it messes with class balance and raid composition.
If you're trying to main tank, you've probably swapped your 2h for a sword and board, seriously gimping your DPS anyhow, which somewhat goes against what I'm saying - but in endgame you do what you're spec'd to do. I understand that pre-raid people would like to be versatile, but these are changes aimed at raiders.
Protection is fine as it is until you get to 25 man content - the 10% stamina? For raiders. You can go Retribution on any instance and it doesn't matter if you pull aggro, because you can take the damage - the passive threat reduction? For raiders, who, if they pull aggro (even in plate) will get 1-shot.
It's similar to the reason why most main-tanks now are Tauren Warriors. In min/max terms, they're the best. The difference is that I spec'd to tank, you spec'd to deal damage. 2.3 lets both of us do what we respectively chose on a degree that's competitive with other classes. Now I'll be a very serious alternative to a Warrior or Druid tank. You'll be serious competition for melee DPS classes - I see no reason why you should EXPECT to be able to tank or off-tank.
Both the Protection and Retribution trees got serious bumps with 2.3, and I feel that people need to let these changes go live and see how they work before complaining. Change takes time, especially when dealing with class balance.
I honestly would say this is one of your bests posts to date.ReplyDelete
The only thing I would add to your comments is that retribution is even further fractionalized into two more camps. There are a large number of Retribution paladins who want a big increase to personal dps. Not to be stereotypical, but these are usually the hardcore PvP retribution pallys (who didn't care about threat reduction as it was). Then there are the raiding retribution paladins, who typically are in favor of group buffing abilities rather than raw power. This doesn't help the problems that ret has to begin with.
I guess this is what we truly call a Holy War. I'm holy for now, but I'm sure I will be protection in the future and who knows, maybe retribution as well. So I'm one of those who wish that paladins are imba in every single tree ;)ReplyDelete
- Anonymous3:56 AM, October 21, 2007
Healing leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate is the path to the Dark Side.ReplyDelete
Holy spec is the Dark Side and needs to be nerfed. I say this because in my raids i watch healing (both overheal and regular heal) and notice that paladins are doing one of two things -topping healing meters or (rarely) off-tanking.
And in your minds, youre probably wondering what class and spec i am. Im a holy spec paladin and i beleve that holy spec is TOO STRONG and forces players to spec holy in order to utilize its awesome (but evil) powers. If holy were a bit weaker, players and guilds would be encouraged to look at the other specs as viable alternatives, or (developers forbid) attempt to use paladins in their hybrid role.
Until holy gets another downgrade, nothing serious mind you, no amount of retribution or protection buffs are going to encourge raiders and guilds to respec since the effectiveness of holy is still a force to be reckoned with (unlike reckoning).
-Lightshield, 70 Paladin (Shadowmoon)
- Anonymous5:08 AM, October 21, 2007
Great post.ReplyDelete
$cat "The paladin Community" >> "Essential Posts"
"If holy were a bit weaker, players and guilds would be encouraged to look at the other specs as viable alternatives, or (developers forbid) attempt to use paladins in their hybrid role." - Lightshield@Shadowmoon
..or drop Paladins from raids completely? What's left for the guild to desire of a Paladin when the third and 'only useful' talent tree is nerfed to match the other two? The alternative is that at least one of the non-Holy specs is raid worthy and the fact that Holy is deemed better is irrelevant.
In all honesty, if I were in a guild that would force any spec/class (my toon or another's) to sit out of a raid I'd leave and find a good guild.
Now, I'm fine with a guild that would look at you funny if you specced contrary to the norm, but Holy isn't the only raid-worthy Paladin spec. And if you played your spec well, I think you'd find the opinion of your guild change pretty quick.
Yes, Paladins make very good healers, but I'd hardly say you are severely over powered as such. As I understand it, you heal a little bit, quickly, forever. The manner in which, by design, a Paladin heals is more advantageous than the scattered benefits from Holy spec talents. (Not sure if that last sentence says exactly what I want, but I'm lacking words at the moment.. says the author of a TLDR.) But this is coming from a mage, so take it with a bag of salt.
Your worthiness to be in a raid has much more to do with your ability to play your toon effectively in whatever spec you choose. That means having the appropriate gear for the spec, filling the appropriate role for the spec, and maximizing the purpose of your spec (heals, dps, threat, utility, ..).
You should always look at other specs as viable alternatives - most especially if you are unhappy with Holy.
Don't underestimate the power of.. *cough* ..utility.
Utility: Crowd Control, Interrupts, Indirect Damage/Damage by Proxy, etc. Pretty much anything outside of the standard goals of 'healing', 'dealing damage directly', and 'generating threat.' At least, this is as I use the term - sorry to confuse it if there is a more widely accepted definition.
I'm pretty sure this type of thing developed when Blizzard first revamped the Holy tree---you used to be able to put hmm, 11 points in and nab all the nifty stuff, and then dump the rest into Ret in Vanilla WoW.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous9:15 AM, October 21, 2007
Hybrid play requires more or less balancing your talent point distribution between 2 or more trees designed to do 2 different things. To the best of my knowledge, the Shockadin build is the only standard hybrid build. The farther you go into each tree, the more "pure" (insert tree purpose here) you are.ReplyDelete
Right now, I'm 40/21/0, so I'm pretty much a "pure" healer who can take a hit or two if a trash mob wants to take a swing at me. I could respec to a more hybrid build and work on a build/gear that gimps my healing some but lets me off-tank and off-heal melee classes, but I honestly prefer healing. I rolled a paladin back when that was all they did in raids and leveled it holy. Yeah it takes forever to kill something, and I can't really tank anything worth a crap, but that's what I chose when I went deep holy. Inability to heal or DPS is what paladins give up going deep prot, and inability to heal or tank is what paladins should expect to give up by going deep ret.
If you want to be a hybrid, you're probably only going about 30 points or so into any given tree. Fanaticism is a 40-point talent will filled all the way. That essentially is committing you to deep ret and pigeonholing you as DPS. True hybrids probably wouldn't be deep enough in the ret tree to get that kind of threat reduction.
If you really want to encourage hybrid builds, petition Blizzard to thin up the protection tree. Standard tanking specs require putting 49 points into protection, that's way too many points for 1 role. Likewise, it wouldn't hurt to make sure retribution doesn't get so talent-heavy either with the new changes to the tree. Trees that allow you to accomplish what they were designed to do early in the tree allow for hybrid builds, even though it's at the cost of being more effective as that tree's role.
It may well be possible to have a hybrid build and play a viable role in raids. The problem is that no one has really defined that role, and until it's figured out, hybrid builds will never become accepted as raid specs and paladins will be forced into "pure" roles.
OMG its so true!ReplyDelete
I'm a retriscrub but I am holy for the sole reason of getting holy gear to heal in 5v5 and collecting points for ret gear ( <3 merc glad greatsword)
I would just like to add to my comment that ever since Blood Elves hit the scene you notice that Horde is more acceptant of retribution paladins BECAUSE more paladins are willing to heal and the occasional tank. You have paladins like Highborne (US) (BE Ret BT paladin) who deliver in the raid environment and Horde is willing to accept that but when you turn over to the Alliance side of things, the general WoW community has always had the mindset of paladins being healers and anything outside of a warrior tank priest/sham/pally/druid heal rest DPS makeup would be obsurde and just wouldn't work because they do no want to try it at all when builds like enhancement, retribution, elemental, shadow, feral, and boomkin all work really well (Ret more so soon than it does now) but many guilds don't want to try it even though it would be in the best itnerest of the guild to do so. I've also heard of a paladin Main Tanking BT (I think he was alliance) but for newer guilds or veteran guilds that would be out of the picture as paladins are not and never will be tanks in their minds.ReplyDelete
Like Michal said... the proof is in the pudding. The more Paladins that throw up videos of themselves main tanking BT and etc... the more accepted other roles outside of Holy will be.ReplyDelete
However, I think a side problem is that people might be afraid. The majority of WoW players look at each class and see one of the three talent trees as "crap" or just offspec. A discipline priest or survival hunter would get laughed out of the raid. Since Paladins are hybrids we want all three trees to be viable and we think it just isn't possible. (Oomkin druids are not a counterpoint.)
Since Ret was our "bad tree" it kept everyone not specced to Ret rather happy. All of a sudden Ret gets some rather significant buffs and people are worried that nerfs are going to come down somewhere else and ruin their build. Akin to how Holy Priest buffs came at the same time as some Shadow nerfs.
Just a theory.
- Anonymous10:23 PM, October 21, 2007
Holy Paladins are not as great a healer once you get further into the endgame. This has been stated by several leading guilds that once other healing classes (Priests, Shamans, Druids) begin to gear up to a certain point for end-end-game content (The Eye, Hyjal, BT) that Paladin deficiencies become more apparent in the healing areas - only 2 heals, one big, one small - they're usually assigned to main tank heal because they lack shields and HoTs and have trouble healing multiple targets and in this case BoP is fairly useless. They ARE mana efficient, but the other healing classes have more and better tools with which to do their jobs once having your healers go OOM is less of a problem. That being said, there is still a misconception of Paladins being these enormously overpowered healers, but they're really not. They're good healers, but they're definitely not substantially better than other healing classes - but because for some reason, people seem to think they are, raiding Paladins are often forced to spec Holy. One of the biggest things any Paladin regardless of spec, brings to the raid is his/her Blessings. Having Paladins putting up Kings, Might, Wisdom and Salvation is a huge boon to the raid and it's worth bringing along at least 3 in a 25 man setting just for Blessings.ReplyDelete
There is no common misconception that Paladins are the best overall healers unless you're talking to misinformed people spending too much reading / writing QQ posts on the O-boards.
The healadin strength is narrowly focussed to one very specific type of healing, that is MT healing. Expanding this to mean "best healer overall" is a stretch nobody in their right mind would perform.
The real issue is about prestige: MT healer is percieved as the most prestigious healer role because it's the most visible. Similarly, part of the issue with tankadins has less to do with their abilities than the prestige tied to being the raid boss MT. There is most certainly a spot on may bossfights for a prot tank to pick and hold adds during a boss fight while the warriors or the bears handle the boss. Not to mention speeding up trash clearing to get to the boss in the first place. But as long as your average raid (not talking about the bleeding edge Catarsing few) appears stuck on the notion that one single MT has to handle it all, no real progress will be made.
- Anonymous6:43 AM, October 22, 2007
Coming at this from a conceptual point of view, I see much the same problem for most other classes: a so-called "off-spec" is generally perceived as a useless anomaly.ReplyDelete
I typically play my 70 shadow priest. I get blind invites to heal quite frequently; I've taken to the simple reply: "I'm shadow". I now refuse to heal a 70 instance because I know I don't have the gear or play-skill to main heal. However, I've *never* received an invite looking for a shadow priest. Yet when I run with an instance group, I *always* get comments from one or more players about how nice shadow-heal and mana regen is, how powerful MC is, etc, etc, etc.
I've also run several instances with a prot pally tank, and the threat management of a prot pally on big pulls (like SH or SL or SV 4, 5, 6 elite pulls) is IMO *far* better than that of a warrior. IMO a prot warrior shines as a single boss tank - but there aren't good tools to manage a big pull where you have 3-4 elites after CC. I even read about a raiding guild that forced all pallies to go holy to heal Kara, only to find that they could no longer run heroics cleanly because the warriors simply could not hold the big pulls.
Frankly, WoW / TBC is IMO *extremely* well-designed because there is no One Best spec. But most people are stuck in a mindset that there *has* to be that One Best spec, and won't be convinced otherwise!
Therefore, IMO the pally issues are symptomatic of a larger 'problem'. People have a hard time understanding other classes and even other specs within their own class, and dismiss the viability of alternate builds. Combine that with a mixture of experiences (especially grouping with badly-played or badly-geared toons) and biases and prejudices are born and cemented into place...
- Anonymous8:50 AM, October 22, 2007
This is a pretty enlightening post for me. A lot of pally discussions do seem whiney and wishy-washy, as if they really do not know what they want. The same can be true for a few other hybrid classes like shaman and especially druid. People read various posts on a topic and assume they come from a camp of people who generally agree. I guess this is not always true. Maybe folks should sign their posts with their faction attached, like tankadin, etc.ReplyDelete
-Jason (DPS Liberation Front)
A nice write up as Paladins just seem odd as a community sometimes. I think of it this way is a family. Its like War of the Roses (Movie). Like been at Love and War all at same time.ReplyDelete
I always sympathize with the four specs as you call it though I mostly only see three tree day to day.
There have been times honestly as a Protection Paladin when every single paladin i see is a Holy Paladin. And on my server its what i see 9/10 times for every raiding paladin. When i seen that often i've wonder just why every single one is Holy. I'm smart enough to know why that is. Yet i quietly wonder to myself when in some guilds if Paladins don't think for them self vs been forced to re-spec by their guilds just so they could raid.
From my very first day as a Paladin i never set out to be a Tank. Who knows what the heck a tank is at level 1 let alone at level 10. I remember choosing my Paladin to be a "Defender" and not to be a Healer or DPS. But a Mighty "Defender" of my Comrads. To simple say it just like a Doctor specializes in a occupation. Thats just how i play my paladin specialized in my role i play.
I also don't do Instance healing. I'll throw a heal, i'll save your life or do what ever at any other time if i can or emergency. I've been spec and trained all my Paladin life as a Defender and its what i'm good at and its what i'll keep doing. If a guild simply cannot accept me for what i'm good at, its not a guild i want to be in irregardless how good that guild is.
But yes the Paladin community with ever class asking for something different does seem to be at Love & War among themselves more so than any other class it seems oftenly enough all the time. When one tree gets a buff for the good of the entire class, one tree cries foul, another tree rejoice and another remain what seem neutral. Its a Odd community.
- Anonymous2:16 PM, October 22, 2007
I think this is a really great post and sums up the problems paladins have with getting what they want--to the world at large we must seem extraordinarily shizophrenic. It's easy to see why it is so hard to make gains as a class when we're all looking for different things.ReplyDelete
I think in the early days of WoW we were all hybrid faction, but given the nature of the end game we became something we weren't supposed to be, and there's been no going back as new paladins have "grown up" under the current system. It's so much easier to pick a single tree, figure out ways to improve the one role that tree facilitates, and agitate for its improvement in one voice. That's why holy originally became powerful, why protection eventually came into its own, and why retribution is making strides now. To advocate hybridness in a unified manner, you first have to have a consensus on what being a hybrid even means. That's pretty damn difficult, despite good ideas I've seen on this blog and elsewhere. So the paladin infighting we experience bothers me, especially because I'm not immune to it.
[Background] I've never been comfortable with the idea of a paladin who, all things considered, would prefer that someone else get hurt instead of them. And that's what a holy paladin is to me. Don't get me wrong, I know holy paladins take plenty of hits, especially in PvP, but I think the holy paladin is generally at his happiest when he's not getting hurt and he can devote his full attention to healing his party. That's just not a paladin to me. I put the emphasis on warrior in the phrase "holy warrior"...i.e. paladins belong in melee.
I've always wanted to be what I call the Swiss Army Renaissance Paladin (the SARP!)--having a ton of useful little tools but being a master of nothing. In vanilla WoW I was 31/20 ret/holy (later 41/20 when the pre-BC patch came out); I ran 5 mans and BGs as mostly a 2-handed melee fighter, but stopping to off-heal/off-tank when necessary--a fluid hybrid. I wore as much int and spell damage plate as I could so I'd be able to do reasonable damage, and be able to take a hit or two, but also drop things mid-battle and land some decent heals. I also kept a stamina/defense heavy tank set for OT situations, but these were rare; I mostly protected people through cunning use of stuns and blessings. I miss playing like that, but BC killed the SARP in my opinion. I picked the route that I perceived would best ensure I got to fight in melee--the protection tank. I learned how to tank properly and was exposed to the joys of AoE grinding, but I lost much of my ability to heal or lolDPS in a party. [/Background]
This upcoming patch really amuses and confuses me in a twisted way. I've always held out hope that ret would make a comeback and I could return to what I used to do. But the evolution of ret isn't what is making me amused/confused--I think they're just allowing another form of restrictive play where you can do one thing really well and 2 things terribly. No, what has me flustered is the fact that the fluid hybrid may be coming back, and it's the holy paladin!
With this +healing to +damage change that's coming down the pipe, I feel like the holy paladin is going to be in the best position to fight or heal at any given moment. They're going to be geared, in essence, like I used to be--plate with int and damage, AND they'll get the full +healing too! And I don't know...I feel like they don't deserve it. I feel like they've propped up a definition of a paladin that is false, and are being rewarded for it. I even feel like they're still going to stand back and let others do most of the fighting. Simultaneously, I'm a little afraid that they're going to be overpowered and the entire class may get nerfed as a result, somehow. Mostly, I'm probably afraid I'm going to be tempted to turn my back on everything I've always stood for as a paladin. I don't want to be an enemy of the holy paladin. And yet more and more I feel like rooting against them. I know how things got this way, but...how the hell did things get this way?
- Anonymous2:56 PM, October 22, 2007
I should rephrase - at some point they aren't even the best single target healers anymore.ReplyDelete
So the holy pally "buff" as well as all healing classes "buff" won't make us big time damage dealers. what it will do is make grinding bearable. Now all three pally trees will be decent to grind with. (MY sympathy in this regard is with full prot warriors. . they really hurt when grinding)ReplyDelete
Surely the answer to anyone who has a prot warrior or any other class that cant grind well, is to level an alt?ReplyDelete
Even though my paladin is retri it still slow work grinding..
I use my 70 Boomkin to grind with! She kills quicker, has outdoors CC so doesnt usually need much attention healing wise.. Obviously she cant take on multiple targets the way Firelight can with aoe, but loot for single mobs Boomers FTW!
My suggestion to solve the hybrid complaints to the current implementation of threat reduction to retribution.
Instead of putting it in Fanaticism, put it in 2H weapon spec. No sane ret/prot hybrid will try to tank with a 2H equipped... right? And it's still sufficiently high in the tree to be found only on primarily retribution paladins.
70 paladin, formerly of Runetotem server
Blizzard does seem to believe that if you want to do something other than what you are spec'd for, it's time to respec. I can't cite, but I have definitely heard a Blizzard poster saying that with the money flowing as it is in TBC, you should be able to respec to do what is needed of you, when it is needed.ReplyDelete
Thus, threat reduction deep in the Ret tree. This is a buff to dps, but a nerf to hybridity, at least fluid.
Not saying I agree with this, but that just seems to be Blizzard's stance. If you're that deep in Ret, stop off-tanking or don't put points in that talent.
With the spell damage on healing gear coming out, we may see a new way to dps/heal as a paladin, but not necessarily melee/heal since it is of course spell damage.
- Anonymous9:12 PM, October 23, 2007
How then, does Paladins & Shamans as a whole get slotted into a Hybrid slot.....ReplyDelete
When ever I complain about being an elemental shaman (caster) they call me a hybrid, but as an elemental build, I don't heal and I don't melee....so technically I'm not a hybrid I'm just a caster....
Same goes for Paladins, I still don't understand why blizzard don't just make all 3 specs indiviually viable, and allow them not to clash with one and other, for example if I was to spec full 61/0/0 in any three specs, as a shaman, Enhancement (DPS)/ Elemental (DPS) / Restoration (Healing), then I should be euqally as good as any other class, who does that 1 piticular thing as well...
Same goes for Paladins, they are Holy (Healing)/ Protection (Tanking)/ Retribution (DPS) but they don't do it....why??? Infact the recent changes to the shaman class in 2.3, escpecailly Elemental has made me close my account....I just hate being told my class as a whole is a Hybrid, when the game forces our hybrid behind to be pigeonhold into a specific field....for example a tanking paldin can't heal, lets face it a protection paladin doesnt heal a 5 man instance, and can't DPS to the same degree and retri can, I certainly wouldnt heal a 5 man as elemental, or as enhancement, so how can we be considered hybrids...
Am I to take it that your Hybrid stance means you disagree with the recent Fanaticism change that makes ret-prot hybrids harder?
You're right, our class is really funny.
Kind of. See this post for more details.ReplyDelete
Ahh, well hopefully you're happier now that the threat reduction won't be active when RF is up.ReplyDelete
"Rousseau said...ReplyDelete
Ahh, well hopefully you're happier now that the threat reduction won't be active when RF is up."
Is that true?
I cant check here at work! They block the WoW sites! Grrr!!!
- Anonymous4:33 PM, October 27, 2007
I don't think I've ever seen a holy paladin object to threat reduction for ret. Where on earth did you see that?! That seems totally irrational to me.ReplyDelete
What I see (on the official forums anyway) is long ret->holy diatribes and occasional holy->ret sniping. I see that here too. It's pathetic.
Frankly, I see myself as more effectively hybrid as 40/31/0 then anyone focusing mostly on ret.
As I see it, the only real fluid hybrid gear in the game is owned by druids. Their DS3 set and Feral Arena gear has itemization for all 5 base stats, and +healing.ReplyDelete
Well, druids are a hybrid class just as much as paladins/shaman. Why don't paladins and shaman see that kind of gear anymore?
People complained that they weren't allowed to pigeonhole themselves. Raiders didn't want to bring hybrids, they wanted people good at one job to fulfill one role within a certain spec. While they could spec for that, they couldn't gear for it.
Short of mish-mashing gear sets together, and working within some kind of weird 26/14/21ish spec, paladins can't be fluid hybrids, and even then it would most likely be a clumsy affair at best.
The game isn't effectively designed around them doing that either, Blizzard expects us not to hybrid anymore from what I've seen in raiding. The fifth-man element is gone when you have more than 5 people. Everything is sectioned in such a way that there's no good place for hybrids.
When I first rolled a paladin on alliance back around the time Naxx came out, I took many long looks at the talent calculators, trying to find a spec to maximize all 3 aspects of the raiding game within one character and the limited number of talent points I had. I couldn't find much, honestly, but wish I had.
The point is not to compete with anyone for top spot on the healing/damage meters, or to have the most damage mitigation in a raid. It's to do about half or even a third as good as those who are unable to do any of those things. To heal better than a priest with no points in holy, to tank better than a warrior with no points in prot, to dps better than a tank-spec'd character. To be able to do whatever is needed, based on the changing environments of the raiding experience.
- Anonymous4:37 PM, October 15, 2008
I fully agree with what Larry said. As a ret pally I was always expected to offtank mobs in raids. Being full ret specced it was difficult to hold aggro even with righteous fury. Then main tank who is also my GM would get a pissy about it. I was like come on dude, I am here for dps not tanking, if you need an offtank grab this druid or even your fury warrior, but he was always pulling me. At the end of the raid people would say stuff about me being at the bottom of the damage meter and I would have to constantly remind them that I offtanked for half the raid. It is the same with healing, even in my heal set my healing sucks, 0 pts in holy doesn't go far. I am not wasting my little mana to heal you when I need it for myself. This is why there are 3 diff specs and hybrid. I am ret, let me do my job.ReplyDelete
Larry said...ReplyDelete
"Holy Paladins are not as great a healer once you get further into the endgame. This has been stated by several leading guilds that once other healing classes (Priests, Shamans, Druids) begin to gear up to a certain point for end-end-game content (The Eye, Hyjal, BT) that Paladin deficiencies become more apparent in the healing areas - only 2 heals, one big, one small - they're usually assigned to main tank heal because they lack shields and HoTs and have trouble healing multiple targets and in this case BoP is fairly useless. They ARE mana efficient, but the other healing classes have more and better tools with which to do their jobs once having your healers go OOM is less of a problem. That being said, there is still a misconception of Paladins being these enormously overpowered healers, but they're really not. They're good healers, but they're definitely not substantially better than other healing classes - but because for some reason, people seem to think they are, raiding Paladins are often forced to spec Holy. One of the biggest things any Paladin regardless of spec, brings to the raid is his/her Blessings. Having Paladins putting up Kings, Might, Wisdom and Salvation is a huge boon to the raid and it's worth bringing along at least 3 in a 25 man setting just for Blessings."
Although I do agree with Larry on knowing a paladin's limitations as multiple target healers,you need to also give credit due to those skilled players who can do amazing things with a mediocre build.It's all about who's driving the wheel when it comes to total effective healing.


text:
TransUnion (TRU)
TransUnion EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth)
EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth) Chart
Historical EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth) Data
There is no data for the selected date range.
An error occurred. Please try again by refreshing your browser or contact us with details of your problem.
About Earnings per Share
Earnings per share (EPS) the amount of income that "belongs" to each share of common stock. An important tool for investors, EPS is often used in determining the value of a stock.
The average number of shares outstanding (the denominator of the EPS formula) is usually calculated by averaging the number of shares at the beginning of the earning period and the number of shares at the end of the period. For example, if a company earned $1 million in 2009 and had 900,000 shares at the beginning of 2009 and 1.1 million shares at the end of 2009, the 2009 EPS would be $1 million/[(.9 million shares + 1.1 million shares)/2] = $1/share.
EPS is generally reported in annualized form from the most recent fiscal year. From time to time, you will see the abbreviation (ttm) associated with earnings per share. That means that the earnings number is a sum of the previous four quarters, which is not necessarily the same as the previous fiscal year.
Learn More
View EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth) for TRU
Access over 100 stock metrics like Beta, EV/EBITDA, PE10, Free Cash Flow Yield, KZ Index and Cash Conversion Cycle.
Start My Free Trial
No credit card required.
Start your free 7-Day Trial.
Already a subscriber? Sign in.
EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth) Benchmarks
|Cardtronics PLC
|Verisk Analytics Inc
|Acacia Research Corp
EPS Diluted (Quarterly YoY Growth) Range, Past 5 Years
|Dec 2018
|Dec 2017
Yahoo 01/17 11:45 ET
Yahoo 01/17 02:12 ET
MT Newswires 01/16 07:08 ET
Globe Newswire 01/16 06:50 ET
Yahoo 01/15 10:45 ET
MT Newswires 01/15 07:18 ET
Globe Newswire 01/15 06:00 ET
Yahoo 01/07 07:01 ET
Yahoo 12/26 11:53 ET

subset: commoncrawl


text:
As part of the changes to the NHS brought about by the Health and Social Care Act 2012, Primary Care Trusts (PCTs) and Strategic Health Authorities (SHAs) ceased to exist on 31 March 2013. Their responsibilities were taken over by Clinical Commissioning Groups and the NHS Trust Development Authority.
For more details please see: www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/06/act-explained/
or click the links below.
The content of this site was captured by British Library Web Archive in March 2013 and is available here: www.webarchive.org.uk/ukwa/collection/117342234/page/1
NHS Commissioning Board
At the heart of the new health and care system, making sure that NHS services delivers the best possible care for patients.
Department of Health
Sets objectives and budgets and holds the system to account on behalf of the secretary of State.
Trust Development Authority
Supporting NHS trusts to secure sustainable, high quality services for the patients and communities it serves.
Clinical Commissioning groups (CCGs)
Made up of local GPs, nurses and other professionals who are responsible for commissioniong services for local communities.
Commissioning Support Units (CSUs)
Provides professional advice and support to CCGs and other customers.
Public Health England
Provides public health leadership and expertise, and works to improve the nations's health and wellbeing, and to reduce health inqualities.
Health Education England
Responsible for the education, training and development of the healthcare workforce.
NHS Choices
Provides information on conditions, treatments, local services and healthy living.
The content of this site was captured by British Library Web Archive in March 2013 and is available here: www.webarchive.org.uk/ukwa/collection/117342234/page/1


text:
This website is strictly for adults only! This website contains sexually explicit content. You must be at least 18 years of age to enter this website. © 2013-2020 ganjatbnat.com All Rights Reserved
Forgot Your Password?
Our Hot Indian Girls are waiting for you to call them now.
To call the girls create your FREE ACCOUNT
Please enter a valid email and select username and password:
Already have an account?
login here
You have successfully created your FREE Account.
An email has been sent to this email with your username, email and password.
Please click the link included in this email to activate your account. If you don't see the email in your inbox,
please check your spam folder and un-spam it.
Go to Homepage


text:
N. Korea experts see repercussions in rocket's success
- North Korea says the Unha rocket is meant to put a satellite in orbit
BEIJING — North Korea's launch of a long-range rocket Wednesday in defiance of international warnings prompted denunciations from the U.S. and its allies as the regime of Kim Jong Un took a giant step forward in its quest to develop the technology to deliver a nuclear warhead.
The governments of the United States, South Korea and Japan quickly condemned the morning launch, and experts on the Korean Peninsula weighed in on the international repercussions of the successful launch following several failed attempts.
The regime's stated purpose for firing its long-range Unha-3 rocket was to put a peaceful satellite into orbit, but the United Nations, as well as the U.S. and its allies, see it as cover for a test of technology for missiles.
The launch is significant because it marks the first successful three-stage separation, which would be necessary for an intercontinental strike, says Mark Fitzpatrick, director of the non-proliferation and disarmament program at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.
The launch, the second in eight months, also marks a quicker tempo to North Korea's weapons program, which previously launched in three-year intervals. "That tells us they're getting better at this, and they're making greater efforts," Fitzpatrick said.
About two hours after the launch, which came as something of a surprise after Pyongyang had indicated technical problems might delay it, North Korea's state media proclaimed it a success, prompting customers in the coffee shop at Pyongyang's Koryo Hotel to break into applause during a special television broadcast. The North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, later confirmed that North Korea did appear to have put an object into space.
The North Koreans' goal is primarily domestic, to consolidate the rule of new leader Kim Jong Un and illustrate to the citizenry that Korea is powerful and prosperous, Fitzpatrick said. But the show of strength is also a threat to the USA because "it's all about having the means of hitting a distant enemy, the United States," he said.
While North Korea is still years away from fitting a nuclear warhead on its rocket and safely returning it to earth, Fitzpatrick, a former senior non-proliferation policy adviser at the U.S. State Department, said, "They're certainly moving in that direction."
Apart from an eventual threat to the USA, a nuclear North Korea is a threat to its neighbors, especially U.S. allies South Korea and Japan, and to global non-proliferation, because it acts as a model to "would be and wannabe" nuclear nations, Fitzpatrick said.
In Seoul, Tong Kim, an international relations expert at Korea University, said Pyongyang has its own domestic agenda behind the missile program, and remains confident that it can ignore the "hollow warnings" of the international community. "They couldn't care less what's going on in South Korea's election and couldn't care less what the Chinese position is, either," he said.
"The No.1 motivation is domestic, as new leader Kim Jong Un is in power for about a year, and this will lock in his leadership, have a unifying effect on different groups within North Korea and demonstrate to his people he is following his father's wishes," Tong said.
STORY:White House condemns rocket launch
The launch should force a strategic rethink by the U.S. government and its allies, as, despite years of warnings, North Korea is not going to collapse anytime soon, he said. "We must look at North Korea as it is. We need to look afresh at all the strategy as it's failed. What is the most practical, pragmatic way to prevent any possible clashes between North and South Korea?"
South Korean media reports earlier that the launch would be postponed left Masao Okonogi "a little astonished" by Tuesday's launch. But Okonogi, a specialist on the Korean Peninsula at Kyushu University in southwestern Japan, sees a familiar pattern behind Pyongyang's actions -- boosting the Kim dynasty, and looking for a deal with the outside world.
This year marks the 100th anniversary of the birth of founding leader Kim Il Sung and the one-year anniversary of grandson Kim Jong Un as Supreme Commander of the People's Army, he said. "It's very strange ... the new Kim Jong Un regime launches a missile but still wants negotiation with other nations.
"They are raising the stake of negotiations, and some months later, they can freeze the launch of missiles, or nuclear testing, and begin negotiations," Okonogi said. "Without launching a missile, they have no means of negotiation. Once they launch, they can get a deal, as that's what happened in the past."
President Obama's policy of "strategic patience" partly contributed to Tuesday's launch and will be criticized in the U.S., he predicted. Despite the launch breaking U.N. resolutions, North Korea's international isolation may start to ease, as imminent elections bring in new leaders in both Japan and South Korea, who will soften their nations' tough approaches, Okonogi said. The next South Korean president "will seek a more co-operative, moderate line," while Tokyo "will have to talk if the North Korean side wants to start talks, for example, on the abduction issue," he said, referring to the kidnapping of Japanese citizens to train North Korean spies.
Wednesday's launch is likely to bring fresh sanctions on the North, and the White House called it a "highly provocative act that threatens regional security."
As two decades of failed efforts have shown, however, the USA has few realistic options to move North Korea from its nuclear trajectory, Fitzpatrick said.
The West has imposed economic sanctions on North Korea, causing suffering for the North Korean people, but the USA is not in position to impose the ultimate sanction of a military attack, "because it would start a second Korean war, and America's ally, the South Korean capital (of Seoul), would go up in flames," Fitzpatrick said.
The latest example of failure was when North Korea violated a supposed landmark Feb. 29 agreement to halt uranium enrichment and missile launches when it launched a missile two months later.
United Nations Security Council resolutions have authorized naval interdictions, but Fitzpatrick says that in practice, those are limited to weapons shipments destined for Iran. A naval blockade of North Korea would be an act of war, he says, "and that's a step too far right now."
Fitzpatrick expects more economic pressure in the wake of Tuesday's launch.
The Bush administration in 2005 froze North Korean bank accounts in Macao, then lifted the sanction a year later, and President Obama could apply that lever again, Fitzpatrick said.
Fitzpatrick says North Korea is "moving in a worrisome direction," and that "he's not optimistic" about the prospects of diplomacy.
"It's still some years before they'll have a (nuclear strike) capability, and the United States has missile defense that would protect it," Fitzpatrick says. "Eventually, it will have to rely on deterrence to deal with this threat."
"This time, just like previous times, all international pressure on North Korea, including Chinese, is ineffective. They are themselves, and they love their rocket, missile and nuclear programs," said Shi Yinhong, an international relations expert at People's University of China in Beijing.
Although the U.S., Japan and South Korea will push for a new sanctions resolution, "China will not agree," said Shi. Beijing may be forced to concede a few additional sanctions, but not a new sanctions resolution, which would go against previous Chinese practice, as Beijing insists a new resolution should only be for a further nuclear test, he said.
In Seoul, Shi noted little surprise at Tuesday's missile test. "They are used to it," he said. On the eve of South Korea's presidential election on Dec. 19, "one strategic purpose (of Pyongyang) is to influence the South Korean people," Shi said. Despite this launch, "whoever wins will take a more mild attitude to North Korea compared to (South Korean President) Lee Myung Bak," he predicted.
NORAD said the rocket traveled south, with the first stage falling into the Yellow Sea and a second stage falling into the Philippine Sea hundreds of miles farther south. "Initial indications are that the missile deployed an object that appeared to achieve orbit," NORAD said in a statement.
Japan protested the launch and said one part of the rocket landed west of the Korean Peninsula, and the Philippines said another part landed 186 miles east of its shores.
Japan's Foreign Ministry said Tokyo immediately requested consultations on the launch within the U.N. Security Council. The council will hold closed-door consultations on the launch Wednesday at the request of one council member and two other countries, according to the U.N. Mission for Morocco, which holds the rotating council presidency.
A similar North Korean launch in April broke apart shortly after lift-off.
"Clearly, this is much more successful than their last attempt," said Jonathan McDowell of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "It's at least as good as they've ever done. They've proved the basic design of it."
He said success would be defined as "something that completes at least one orbit of the Earth."
Rocket tests are seen as crucial to advancing North Korea's nuclear weapons ambitions. North Korea is thought to have only a handful of rudimentary nuclear bombs. But Pyongyang is not yet believed capable of building warheads small enough to mount on a missile that could threaten the United States.
North Korea has spent decades trying to perfect a multistage, long-range rocket. Experts say that ballistic missiles and rockets in satellite launches share similar bodies, engines and other technology. This is the fifth attempt at a long-range launch since 1998, when Pyongyang sent a rocket hurtling over Japan. Previous launches of three-stage rockets weren't considered successful.
North Korea, under new leader Kim, has pledged to bolster its nuclear arsenal unless Washington scraps what Pyongyang calls a hostile policy.
Kim took power after his father, Kim Jong Il, died on Dec. 17 last year, and the launch is seen by some as an attempt to commemorate that. It also comes less than a week before presidential elections in South Korea and about a month before President Obama is inaugurated for his second term.
The launches Wednesday and in April came from a site on the North Korea's west coast, in the village of Tongchang-ri, about 35 miles from the Chinese border city of Dandong. The site is 45 miles from the North's main Yongbyon nuclear complex, and is said to have better roads and facilities than previous sites and to allow a southerly flight path meant to keep the rocket from flying over other countries.
Tensions are high between the rival Koreas. The Korean Peninsula remains technically at war, as the 1950-53 conflict ended in a truce, and Washington stations nearly 30,000 troops in South Korea as a buttress against any North Korean aggression. Tens of thousands more are in nearby Japan.
The launch also follows South Korea's recent cancellation, because of technical problems, of an attempt to launch its first satellite from its own territory. Two previous attempts in 2009 and 2010 failed.
The U.N. Security Council has imposed two rounds of sanctions on North Korea following its nuclear tests, and a 2009 resolution orders the North not to conduct any launch using ballistic missile technology.
The council condemned the failed North Korean launch in April and ordered seizure of assets of three North Korean state companies linked to financing, exporting and procuring weapons and missile technology.
Under Security Council resolutions, nations are also barred from buying or selling weapons with North Korea, a key source of revenue for its authoritarian government.
North Korea has capable short- and medium-range missiles, but long-range launches in 1998, 2006, 2009 and in April of this year ended in failure. North Korea is believed to have enough weaponized plutonium for at least half a dozen bombs, according to U.S. experts. In 2010, it revealed a uranium enrichment program that could provide a second source of material for nuclear weapons.
Six-nation negotiations on dismantling North Korea's nuclear program in exchange for aid fell apart in early 2009.
A February deal for the United States to provide 240,000 metric tons of food aid in exchange for a freeze in nuclear and missile activities collapsed after the North's April launch.
Contributing: The Associated Press


text: Mobile Storage Arkansas Mobile Storage Donaldson Mobile Storage Donaldson Mobile Storage Search Results We've found 1 Donaldson mobile storage companies that deliver to Donaldson - Click on any one of them for more information. Refine Search Size 5x5 5x10 5x15 10x10 10x15 10x20 10x30 Features Climate Controlled Drive-up Access Auto/Boat/RV Neighborhood None Found PODS Moving & Storage Moving & Storage Solved! Donaldson, AR 866-602-3813 More Info


text:
My Basket (0 items, £0.00)
Earn up to 120 School Uniform Shop Loyalty Programme points with this purchase
The Sweat cardigan is an essential school wear item that is designed and made to last. Low bobble and tumble dry safe; this Sweat cardigan with its raglan sleeves is everything you could wish for your childs school uniform. Easy to care for simply wash it in the machine!
Product code: ROWL-MOR-CARDIGAN-RED-ZA25
There are currently no reviews for this product. Be the first to review by clicking below!
Customer Help
My Account
Product Information
School Uniform Shop