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User talk:Mith/2011
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Featured Quotes[edit source]
So I justw ant to udnerstand, since you deleted our conversation instead of answering my question, why we don't use the "Nominations page" for nominations and why the "History" page is used instead? —Unsigned comment by Breragor (talk • contribs).
- The conversation was moved to here. Also in future please end talk page posts with "--~~~~", this will add a timestamp to your comments. Thanks! -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 03:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
- As KingAragorn points out - and if you had checked either the article's history or Recent Changes you would see this - I moved our discussion to the talk page as it shouldn't have been cluttering up the archive of featured quotes.
- I have already answered your question:
- You then preceded to completely ignore what I said and tell me that my response was irrelevant. And now, I shall answer your question again: we did not use the "History" page for nominations - the quote was on the "Nominations" page but was moved to the "History" page when nominations were no longer required as it became the current Featured Quote on the homepage; I had directed you to the two edits which showed this. It is difficult to have a conversation if one of the participants does not read what the other has written. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Obviosuly the quote was moved to "History" after it was on the "Nominations" page - I understand that. But whay wasn't the other quote on the "Nominations" page used first? That's what I don't udnerstand. Anyways, I'm done. Thanks.—Unsigned comment by Breragor (talk • contribs).
- NO. Do not make out that I am not answering your questions: I have answered every question you have asked when you have asked it. You asked me: "So I justw ant to udnerstand why we don't use the "Nominations page" for nominations and why the "History" page is used instead?" I answered that and now you claim that you understood this all along and that I was not answering the question.
- I have answered your question twice. Not once, but TWICE. Here is my first answer:
- "There are only three other in the nominations queue: the first has two disagrees and an undecided; the second has one agree; and the third has two agrees and an undecided. This had the joint-most agrees whilst being unanimously positive (only one other was unanimously positive but had fewer votes). Although the rules state that we need five votes in favour, so few people were voting that we decided in the meeting to update the quote in order to keep the homepage fresh (the previous quote had been there for 14 months, with no prospect of it being changed). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)"
- Here is my second answer:
- "I've already answered this question, but I shall again for clarity: the selected quote was a) older, b) received universal agreement and c) was decided by a meeting of seven people. If you didn't like the quote that was chosen you should've voted against it, or else made an effort to attend the meeting: it has been no secret that I have put the need to update Featured Articles and Featured Nominations on the agenda of subsequent meetings. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)"
- You either am not reading this or you are trying to wind me up; I'm assuming the latter as I'm sure no individual can be this dense. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:17, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
You know what they say about assuming...—Unsigned comment by breragor (talk • contribs).
- No, I don't. Why don't you elaborate on your pointless comment on my talk page? Also, do you accept that I have answered your question? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:01, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
- One would assume that you actually read the replies people give to your questions? I am right Breragor? -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 12:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
- Alas, if only you were so observant to read the answers people give you. -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 10:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
- In that case we can only assume that you are either failing to understand the sentences we are using in our responses or you are purposefully trolling. I should point out that continued trolling is a bannable offence. -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 11:58, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
- There's no anger here. But I should tell you that you are displaying clear signs of trolling, I've seen it a lot elsewhere on the web. -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 10:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
- Not once did you say you didn't understand. In fact, quite the reverse: you said you did understand but tried to tell me that I was answering the wrong question. E.g. "Yes, but isn't the Tolkien Gateway:Featured quotes/Nominations page where we should be getting the quotes from? That is what I'm referring to." then "Okay, but that's regardless." and finally, "Obviosuly the quote was moved to "History" after it was on the "Nominations" page - I understand that." --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
We are having an argument, no one is trolling. Plus, you say it's an offence punishable by banning, yet niether here nor here is "trolling" mentioned. —Unsigned comment by Breragor (talk • contribs).
- I'd take you seriously if you would only end you posts with your signature: --~~~~. Thank you for pointing out that trolling is not mentioned in our 5 year old Policy page, Mith is planning to update it, I'm sure he will mention trolling when he does. The Manual of Style has nothing to do with talk page discussions. Furthermore trolling is not accepted across the web (in the same way that spam is not accepted), why would we tolerate it here just because it is not mentioned on an old unspecific policy page? -- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 14:07, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
- Quote from top of this page: "You should sign and date your posts by inserting "~~~~" at the end of them.". Quote from Tolkien Gateway:Policy: "Sign your posts on talk pages". I don't understand why you continue to fail to sign your posts, considering the effort you went to create a signature; would your continual failure to sign your posts count as a breach of the rules?
References/Notes[edit source]
I remember you were working to include Notes in the Template:References. Did you manage to get it to work, and if so - how does one use it? Thanks! --Morgan 19:03, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
- The limitations of the References extension prevent me from implementing it the way I want. At the moment, if you write {{references|{{{1}}}}}, with anything as {{{1}}}, it will display Notes then References as separate headings; to put a note in the page, add 'group="note"' to the reference. E.g. '<ref group="note">This was the year that Faramir's younger sister, Fíriel, was born.</ref> {{references|note}}' (something similar to this is currently in use in Faramir (son of Ondoher)). It's a bit... awkward, but at least it works. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 19:19, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Apportioning Blame[edit source]
I apologise for ruffling your feathers, but I would be obliged if you would think before leaving misjudged snorters on my talk page.
'Bots are stupid' is not blaming bots, it is an observation of fact. Bots only mechanically carry out their instructions, regardless of whether the result they leave is any better than what they found. They are not capable of making intelligent decisions. 'Computers are stupid' is the first axiom of computer science.
That is not to say they shouldn't be used. On balance I appreciate what your bot does, and I think you should keep it up. But in a number of cases the results need cleaning up, and these cases will keep turning up. When I happen to come across such a result, I do so. I always leave an edit summary, and I usually keep edit summaries 'telegraphically' short, and so regularly prefer pithy axioms. You are free to expand this one into 'needed more work than the bot did/could do/could be expected to do', there's no call to turn it into me blaming the bot.
However, we need to be aware that there will always be cases where bots don't/can't/can't be expected to do all the work, and cleaning up after them will remain necessary. I'll do my bit, if I come across an instance, but that's only incidentally. Although your bot is not the cause of the problem, it makes it stand out — it's only after it has changed the link to the redirect that the multiple links show up. You are aware that that is a side effect of your bot's proper work, you know on which rounds you have sent it, so you know where the 'cleaners up' need to go. It's not fair to expect the editors whose work has been changed behind their backs to pick up all responsiblity for cleaning up.
And finally, although you're correct that editors cause multiple links, you do need to be careful to distinguish which editors. What you posted on my talk page is in itself contradictory. If editors can't check where their links go ..... points the finger at the editors who put the links in the article in the first place. However, they are mostly caused by linking to two originally separate articles and then, at a later date, one of those articles being redirected to the other actually shows they cannot be blamed for putting in what were at the time links to two different articles, what caused the problem is that one of them was later changed into a redirect.
That is why it should be made clear that when someone changes an article into a redirect (or into a disambiguation) the onus is on him to fix all the links that link to the new redirect. The 'What links here' tool is provided to make this relatively easy. That your bot cleans up after editors who neglect to do this is only a mopping up operation; and it should not be relied upon to automatically do the work that is necessary after a change into a redirect, for of its nature only part of that work can be done automatically. — Mithrennaith 00:47, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- The word "stupid" is not a perfect synonym of "unintelligent": stupid has a more derogatory air about it and if directed at a person it is usually with the intention of discrediting or causing offence (e.g. "George Osborne is stupid."). In calling the bot stupid it felt like a dig at me as the person who issues said instructions.
- As far as I'm concerned - unless mistakes caused by my own error - the bot always leaves things in a better state than how it found them: I would also prefer a superfluous link going to the right place to a superfluous link going to the wrong place.
- I don't consider my statement contradictory: some people do, persistently, link to redirects - which is why I have to go over certain articles again and again, e.g. Frodo Baggins, Quenya and Middle-earth (incidentally, this was the case with Hithaeglir/Misty Mountains) - but most of the problem is caused by people moving/merging articles and not clearing up after themselves. You're preaching to the converted when it comes to "What links here", redirects, etc., unfortunately, it's a difficult policy to enforce as other editors can't be compelled to clean up after themselves. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 17:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- Amen! (When we're talking of preaching and converted ...) That is, agreed. — Mithrennaith 19:53, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
File talk:Auto insurance 4292.jpg[edit source]
You might like to reply to this comment, requring email conforimation to upload files (which only logged in users can do). -- Myrtonos forum c ec 10:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
wiki scripting[edit source]
Hi there. If I recall correctly you are the writer of some scripts used in this wiki.
I also maintain a personal wiki (Mediawiki) and I discovered some huge mistake. I typed a word wrong in 100 articles and I guess there are better ways than editing all them again manually. I know that you have written such scripts in the past.
DO you have any guidelines for me? Sage 01:58, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
- I used a bot (Mithbot) to do many menial tasks automatically (and, with nearly 8,000 edits, Mithbot has saved a lot of work!); the benefit of using a bot (i.e. an account in the bot usergroup) is that its edits don't appear in RecentChanges - or on people's watchlists - and the bot is unaffected by technical constraints of users. The downside to this is that they only do exactly what you tell them to do, so if you give them incorrect instructions they will follow them blindly.
- I use DotNetWikiBot: once your bot has the appropriate permissions, all you have to do is edit the botscript.cs file to something like this:-
using System; using DotNetWikiBot; class MyBot : Bot { public static void Main() { Site site = new Site("http://tolkiengateway.net", "Mithbot", "PASSWORD"); PageList p = new PageList(site); p.FillFromGoogleSearchResults("Frood", 150); p.LoadEx(); foreach (Page i in p) i.text = i.text.Replace("Frood", "Frodo"); p.SaveSmoothly(1, "Bot Message: fixed Frood typo", true); } }
- This will basically fill in all instances of "Frood" with "Frodo". In actual fact, it did find one! If Google hasn't cached your website all too well, you might want to try something like this:-
using System; using DotNetWikiBot; class MyBot : Bot { public static void Main() { Site site = new Site("http://tolkiengateway.net", "Mithbot", "PASSWORD"); PageList p = new PageList(site); p.FillFromSearchResults("baggings", 150); p.Remove("Tolkien Gateway:Meetings/5 September 2010/Transcript"); p.LoadEx(); foreach (Page i in p) i.text = i.text.Replace("Baggings", "Baggins"); p.SaveSmoothly(1, "Bot Message: fixed Baggings typo", true); } }
- In this example it's the wiki's search results rather than Google's; I'd already checked this particular typo so used p.Remove to exclude the meeting transcript from the list of pages to edit. (The 150 is the number of results to return, by the way.) I think that's all you need to know, really! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
- Just to say your link to a diff (title=Tolkien_Gateway:IRC_Trivia&diff=prev&oldid=144132) above has broken. Of course this may just be a consequence of normal change, but in case it's a true error, I thought you should know. — Mithrennaith 23:41, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Wiktionary direct link[edit source]
Do we have (or is it possible to create) a direct link to Wiktionary in the manner of our current [[Wikipedia:X|X]] and {{WP|X}}? Then there's of course always the question if we should favour these particular wiki projects over other... --Morgan 07:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether you need an extension for it, but I've seen [[wiktionary:X|X]] and [[wikt:X|X]] on other wikis. We could also make a temple {{Wikt|X}} of course. -- Ederchil (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've used the command line now in an article, and it works. :-) --Morgan 20:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
New signs[edit source]
Could you please add the signs Ŋŋ to the insert box? The letter appears in the Qenya Lexicon (and are reproduced in PE17). Thanks! --Morgan 10:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
- I was going to say, "For you, anything." but it seems as if someone else got there first. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 15:06, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Date restructuring[edit source]
I'm generally in agreement with what you've been doing in reorganising the date articles. Unfortunately you seem to have overlooked one fly in the ointment, namely that those articles cover Middle-earth events as well as real world events, and in consequence have been doing actual damage. Our coverage of Middle-earth calendars is a shambles at the moment, but that's no excuse to make it even worse, by upsetting about the only bit of it that is good, viz. the coverage in the date articles of the events in Arda of which the actual dates, taken mainly from J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B: The Tale of Years (Chronology of the Westlands), are known.
When just over a week ago you nominated 30 February for speedy deletion, I assumed you had had a temporary black-out and had actually not read the article at all before putting up the template, because I couldn't believe you would not have understood your mistake had you actually read the article. So I summarily removed the deletion template, giving very brief enjoinder to read both the article and J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix D in the edit summary. As the delete nomination did not reappear, nor did any question about it appear on my talk page, I assumed that you had understood.
But now that I've seen what you've been doing to the date articles in February and March, I'm afraid I was mistaken, and that you seem to have actually no clue why 30 February has a perfectly genuine and proper existence on TG, and that you have been doing the wrong thing with the right intentions. So I very much regret not having put a note on your talk page about 30 February when I removed the deletion template.
The facts of the matter are these:
- The date articles actually were set up to fulfill two functions at once: aggregate Tolkien-related events in the primary world by Gregorian Calendar dates, and aggregate events in Tolkien's secondary world by the calendar dates essentially given in J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B: The Tale of Years (Chronology of the Westlands).
- Although in J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B: The Tale of Years (Chronology of the Westlands) Tolkien uses the same month names as in the Gregorian Calendar, he is, as he explains in J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix D, not actually using the Gregorian Calender, but applying the Roman month names to the Shire Calendar.
- In the Shire Calendar, all the months have 30 days, so there is a 30 February, but no 31 January, March, May, July, August, October or December. There are, however, 5 (in leap years 6) days outside the months:
That the date articles contain both the events on Earth according to the Gregorian calendar and the events in Arda according to the 'renamed Shire Calendar' has an important consequence: In organising the date articles and everything that ties in to them, such as month and year calendars, calendar navigation boxes, categories, etc. account must be taken not only of the structure of the Gregorian Calendar, but also of that of the Shire Calendar. That means:
- That your persistent campaign to suppress 30 February from the month navigation boxes (and everywhere else) has been misguided and ill-considered. I have reverted all those changes.
- That the ordinal calendar date (the running count of days within the year from 1 January) that you use for the sorting order in the category:dates should accomodate both Gregorian and Shire Calendars, so that it is actually wrong to count 29 February as 060 and 1 March as 061, leaving no room for 30 February in between. In your count, starting with 1 January as 001, 2 Yule can be accomodated as 000, so that the ordinal dates already set for January and February need not be changed. But 1 March should be 062, and the subsequent dates following that adjusted accordingly. Also, 4 places should be provided in between June and July for the four Lithedays, and the numbering end with 372 for 1 Yule.
So I hope you will take these facts into account, when you continue with your otherwise very proper and useful revision of date articles. — Mithrennaith 06:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- Erm, no. I wish you'd come to me and asked me about this before instead of undoing my good work.
- The reason I'm doing what I'm doing is not because, as you seem to think, I am ill-informed on calendars. The Gregorian calendar dates, as they all are, are to be treated and ordered in exactly that manner; when I have finished sorting all those articles out (slightly hindered by you now) I will be creating an article for each and every Shire calendar date. Then, the appropriate Shire dates - "24 Halimath", "Overlithe", "1 Winterfilthe", etc etc - will be automatically included in the Gregorian dates articles (a la Main Page) to make things a) tidy, b) accurate, c) make the new main page work properly and d) stop this ridiculous situation of things happening on non-Gregorian-dates effectively never existing on this wiki (e.g. Arwen and Aragorn's wedding on Mid-year's day).
- What I am doing is not misguided, and - with the amount of work it entails - is not ill-considered. I am not an idiot who doesn't understand calendars. 30 February has no place on this wiki; 30 Solmath does. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 07:18, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- Oh dear. I am very much afraid that the wiki-principle of 'being bold' has done us a serious disservice here, and set us up with quite the wrong ideas about each others intentions. If I had seen any sign that you actually intended hyving off the events in Arda to separate articles in a subsequent phase, I would probably have understood what you were aiming at and have come here before setting out on a which-hunt against the 'suppression of 30 February'.
- But you got me on the wrong foot with your deletion nomination for 30 February. Calling an article that clearly contained sensible information the 'most pointless article ever' was not conveying to me the impression that you actually saw that the article had a place in the way Middle-earth dates were until now dealt with on TG — a coherent way, even if open to criticism. Nominating an article for speedy deletion, before moving its sensible content to another article — now I understand that that is the intention, I can also see that that might still easily take another week, or two — was not conveying to me the impression that its content would actually be preserved elsewhere. That is why I saw foolery, rather than a tiny wheel in a well thought-out structure.
- That is why I still, and even more, regret not having come here, to your talk page, then and there, when I removed the template. For then we would have had the discussion we should have had before you started out on this project, and before tempers were ruffled. For I must confess I was very angry indeed when writing my previous expose, because I could only see that you were unraveling that bit of coherent structure in dealing with Middle-earth dates and calendars that there was on this wiki, and could not see any sign or statement of another coherent structure replacing it. I do, however, consider that I still assumed good faith and good intentions.
- Please understand that from what you were doing — adding an ordinal number in order to make the dates sort properly, tweaking mainly entries in the 'on Earth' section of the articles, setting the month navigation to Gregorian needs only, having consulted the meeting on changing the date format, but not on anything else — left me with the impression that you were completely concentrating on the Gregorian side of the date articles, and completely disregarding the Middle-earth side. I see now that I was wrong, but on looking over your userpage again, I see only one rather general statement that, in hindsight, might have made me guess differently about your intentions. I may have missed some statement elsewhere, but the last weeks I've been going through the articles and categories on Middle-earth calendars and timelines pretty thoroughly. If I have indeed missed something, I apologise.
- But a discussion before embarking on all this still would have been necessary. I do not think calling the way in which TG has dealt with Middle-earth dates until now (b.t.w., it was set up by Hyarion and, I think, Ederchil, I had nothing to do with it) ridiculous is the most constructive thing to say. I can see that it is open to criticism, yes. But it is coherent. And it has a clear basis in the primary sources. Tolkien did not use Afteryule, Solmath, Rethe, etc. in Appendix B. He used January, February, March, etc. But he stated clearly in Appendix D that he used these names not for the Gregorian calendar months, but for the Shire Calendar month. In doing so he set up a system in which 358 days (359 in leap years) have designations also occuring in the Gregorian calendar, in the same order, but not all in a continuous sequence. 7 days have designations that do not exist in the Gregorian calendar, 7 day designation from the Gregorian calendar are not used. And because this system of equivalences is consistently used in the Tale of Years, many readers of Tolkien's work have taken to using it. And so Hyarion c.s. have used it when implementing the date articles on this wiki. It is open to the criticism, at least, that it is an incomplete equivalence. As Hyarion noted in an edit summary for 30 February, the date was never going to appear on the Main page. However, the date literally appears in Tolkien's own Tale of Years. In view of that it is not really the most appropriate thing to say that 30 February has no place on this wiki.
- Having said that, I do see that there is a good case for preferring a system of complete and continuous equivalences. (Strictly speaking though, that is not possible, as the Númenórean calendars actually have years with two leap days. The second leap day is never going to find a Gregorian equivalent. But as it didn't occur at all anywhere near the War of the Ring, we can safely ignore it.) But your description of automatically including the appropriate Shire dates in the Gregorian date articles is still open to different interpretations.
- One could be that 2 Yule is equivalent to 1 January, and the 365 days of the Shire year are then paired with the 365 days of the Gregorian year strictly in order counting from that point (or 366 days; or 365 days in actual ordinary years, and 366 in actual leap years).
- But one could also take as a starting point the statement in Appendix D that the Shire year (as the Númenórean year) actually started at midwinter, apparently taken by Tolkien as being 22 December (Gregorian), and proceed to count of both calendars from the equivalence of 2 Yule to 22 December.
- Chronologists would, however, say neither of the two is correct. Instead one should properly calculate for each event the Gregorian date on which it actually occurred, running the Gregorian Calendar backwards to the time of the War of the Ring. (Chronologists would actually use the Julian calendar for running backwards.) As the Gregorian (or Julian) and Númenórean calendars have different leap year rules, that may lead to a different equivalence than 2 Yule to 22 December, or indeed to a different equivalence for dates some years apart. But as we do not have a single synchronous date between Shire (or Númenórean) calendar and Gregorian (or Julian) calendar, not even indirectly, a historical equivalence like this cannot be established.
- So, while there may be good reasons to replace the present incomplete equivalence between Middle-earth and Gregorian dates, it isn't completely clear exactly what complete equivalence should replace it. That fact, and the fact that the way TG deals with Middle-earth dates has structural ramifications, and the fact that Tolkien did actually use the system you want to set aside, make me feel it's desireable to consult the community about such a change.
- Having said that, I do see that there is a good case for preferring a system of complete and continuous equivalences. (Strictly speaking though, that is not possible, as the Númenórean calendars actually have years with two leap days. The second leap day is never going to find a Gregorian equivalent. But as it didn't occur at all anywhere near the War of the Ring, we can safely ignore it.) But your description of automatically including the appropriate Shire dates in the Gregorian date articles is still open to different interpretations.
- I apologise for second guessing you, misinterpreting you, underestimating you and so putting a spanner in your works. I should not have done so. But I think the responsibility remains with you for not having set out your plans in sufficient detail to the community at large.
- Now, how do we go from here? My instinct is to reverse my tampering with your improvements to the date articles. But then we should have some further discussion, preferably with more regular editors involved.
- (P.S. posting all this was delayed for four hours because of TG's downtime.) — Mithrennaith 14:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- I often tag things for deletion (unfortunately we only have a "speedy deletion" template) as a beacon to say "This change will happen - not right now - but I am notifying you of this now." I'm doing all the Gregorian stuff first then all the Shire stuff will come next - that's probably why it seemed like I didn't have a clue (but, I do - honest!).
- I probably haven't been entirely clear on-wiki (although there are hints at it on my user page, the project page and in a couple of talk pages) but I have discussed it pretty thoroughly pre- or post-meeting and I thought everyone knew what I was up to and that everyone was in agreement. I made it clear when I became "Dates Supervisor" I was going to be very hands-on and pro-active in getting it all ship-shape and Bristol fashion. The Dates Project does say "Converting dates in the Gregorian calendar to the various Middle-earth calendars correctly." which implies the removal of 30 February but, admittedly, not the creation of Shire Calendar articles.
- The problem with Tolkien's own timeline is that it is open to wild misinterpretation which is exactly what happens on this wiki. Of the three options you give, it's the second one I intend to take. The benefit of a wiki is that we can redirect and signpost these problems relatively easily so I have no qualms with putting to one side Tolkien's own usages.
- Thank you for letting me feel that the air has cleared a bit now!
- Yes, I would really like to have a good open talk about this, but I don't know whether the meeting is quite the place for it. I may add it to the agenda though. Point is, Calendars is one of my oldest focus points in Tolkien studies (or Ardalogy, really) - I've been thinking, calculating and writing half-finished notes about the proper correspondences between Middle-earth and primary world calendars for thirty years now, so I have a lot of knowledge and ideas about it.
- Over the years I have been lurking around TG, sometimes putting my head above the parapet and joining in meetings, I've been looking around the chronological articles, and I have seen work, mainly useful, being done on the primary world dates, and on the timelines, but the Middle-earth calendars have been and remained a shambles, with no noticeable sensible work being done about it. I have several times over the last two or three years wanted to start overhauling the whole set of articles dealing with that, but I haven't found the time for it. Recently, I've started to read up on the subject again, with a view to developing something. That's also why I have been revisting all the articles and categories about Middle-earth calendars recently.
- Now I know you are date supervisor, so my (very tentative) plans were, if I would find the time, to develop some outline in my userpages and then come to you (and the rest of the community) for some discussion on it. But I haven't reached that stage by far yet, so I haven't said anything.
- The problem with the hints here and there (yes, I do remember having read the project page a few times) is not just that they were far too general to read from them what work would actually be going to be done. I simply saw no further signs of anything large being planned ... my bad, I think. But I have also not been in meetings enough, I've had months of being virtually off-TG, and earlier this year I had three months of being virtually off-line. So, I wasn't there when you were made dates supervisor, so didn't really know what you said about your plans then. Nor what was covered by 'dates', though the hints on the project page and your user page were of course at least clear enough to see that Middle-earth calendars did come under it somehow.
- And I think I've missed all your discussion of this pre- and post-meeting — and the problem of course is that they don't show in logs or on reports of decisions made. That's one of the reasons I have, when showing up in meetings, been emphasising that discussions on plans, projects and policies should at least have a place on-wiki were they can be summarised, continued and their outcome be seen and retrieved by all concerned.
- I confess I have also been missing the forum, properly working. If that hadn't suddenly gone bust, I think I would have opened a thread on this topic some time ago, and likewise on some genealogical matters (for example) — another very old focus point of mine. I did find the forum a good place to deal with matters that involve a lot of related articles and need to deal with them coherently; the only place, really, except for project pages, which are not always there where you want them, or dealing with too large an overview.
- To practical matters. I think your choice of the 22 December alignment (if I understand you correctly) is sensible for the purposes of TG. But I think there needs to be a careful explanation of the other possible alignments, and also of the 'Appendix B nomenclature' and its defects, for of course it is not a proper alignment at all, but still it is there. It still is what the readers will find in the book itself, and what fans are using all over, so I think we simply cannot afford as the serious Tolkien wiki to simply ignore it. Maybe we might need a (subfusc) template on Gregorian date articles stating something like:
and turn 30 February into a redirect. But you will no doubt have developed ideas on that as well, so we need to discuss that, and may come up with something different in seeking consensus.If you are looking for the date in Middle-earth, designated in The Lord of the Rings as 22 September, you should go to 22 Halimath
- To practical matters. I think your choice of the 22 December alignment (if I understand you correctly) is sensible for the purposes of TG. But I think there needs to be a careful explanation of the other possible alignments, and also of the 'Appendix B nomenclature' and its defects, for of course it is not a proper alignment at all, but still it is there. It still is what the readers will find in the book itself, and what fans are using all over, so I think we simply cannot afford as the serious Tolkien wiki to simply ignore it. Maybe we might need a (subfusc) template on Gregorian date articles stating something like:
- We maybe also need an ordinary deletion template, next to a speed deletion template.
- And now I will go about reverting my tampering with your changes to dates in February and March (including 23 March that you missed), and also in February and Calendar. — Mithrennaith 23:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- Done. — Mithrennaith 01:40, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks.
- Yep, Shambles is adequate word and that's why I wanted to sort it as a matter of priority. And yep you understand my intentions correctly and yep I shall have a disambiguating sentence along those lines. Wherever you want to debate the issue I'm happy to discuss it. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 22:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
remove real name[edit source]
Would you please remove my real name from http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Lord_of_the_Rings_vol._1 and http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Quin_Breland and the URL using my name? I wrote that program in high school and it has unfortunately become the first Google result. I am a lawyer and it is not very professional. Thank you.
- That would be an issue of editorial self-censorship which I don't really feel I have the authority to enact myself. This information is in the public domain - and obviously isn't factually inaccurate - but I shall add it to a meeting agenda for us to decide, nonetheless. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:49, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Something to consider is also if should have articles on non-licensed, non-commercial computer games at all. It's almost like we would start having articles about fanfiction stories and fanfic authors.--Morgan 20:27, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Well I wasn't intending to start a discussion here, Mith, but in any case the forum isn't working - where should we have discussions? --Morgan 20:40, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- Well, why put it here (as this is for discussions with me)? You can still create Forum discussions (all that's broken is the dynamic page list of topics), or you can put it on the discussion for the meeting? --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 20:53, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Categories in alphabetical order[edit source]
Should categories always be put manually in alphabetical order? --Morgan 12:23, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- There's no official policy on this - although perhaps there should be - but I've always done it as I think it helps the reader (if you look at the categories of Smaug, for instance, I think it looks nice to see them in alphabetical order). --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 12:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, I'll try to remember it. ;-) --Morgan 12:30, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
New signs 2[edit source]
Hi Mith! Would you mind adding the breve signs? Ăă Ĕĕ Ĭĭ Ŏŏ Ŭŭ - And why not also the inverted breve while you're at it: Ȃȃ Ȇȇ Ȋȋ Ȏȏ Ȗȗ Thank you! --Morgan 01:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Bot job[edit source]
Is your bot able to relink the instances of Nírnaeth Arnoediad to Nirnaeth Arnoediad? Cheers / --Morgan 18:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- I posed my question on the talk page on June 24, and no one has had any opinions. I guess that it's more conventional to use the name as it appears in The Silmarillion.--Morgan 18:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- ?--Morgan 18:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Since you appear to want to know: the "?" derives from a) my impression that your comment seemed a bit unnecessarily rude and b) that I find it hard to interpret what you're saying.
- "If not responding to talk pages is criteria for action," What kind of action are you referring to? My action of moving the article, or my suggestion that you should use your bot to change the redirects? Or just an action (on TG) in general? Both trivial and non-trivial?
- "... I guess I should try to sneak through talk page comments at 5am to get what I want." Do you think I was too hasty on moving the article, or are you just making a general remark? If I am the only one after three weeks who has an opinion in the matter, why is it so controversial to move an article to its more commonly known name?
- "I'll do this later." Do you mean after a certain time? Is it because you don't have time right now, or because you think we need to ponder more about the pro's and con's? Or do you want to wait until more people have signed? Should we do this for all trivial moves? Or was this not a trivial move? You just leave me confused!
- (Perhaps I should mention for the record that, IIRC, the reason why I originally asked the question on the talk page was that I had a hard time actually finding the article - I think I searched for "Nirnaeth", and didn't find it).--Morgan 23:27, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
- Yes. If you feel you don't need talk page approval, why not just move the article in the first place? The fact that nobody answered doesn't mean nobody disagrees: in the past I've come across things months later and thought "This isn't right. I can't believe I haven't seen this before." You are right about this particular article but isn't it a slightly questionable philosophy?
- General (slightly cynical) remark. (See 1.)
- Because I didn't have time to do it yesterday. If a move is trivial it doesn't need talk page chat.
- How do you want me to bot this? Do you want links to "Nírnaeth Arnoediad" changed to "[[Nirnaeth Arnoediad]]" or "[[Nirnaeth Arnoediad|Nírnaeth Arnoediad]]". I expect you'll say the former, but just checking. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 08:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you. Yes, the former is better, I would say. Concerning 1: I do agree that it's not a good philosophy for non-trivial actions (or actions you suspect could be controversial). But sometimes it can be hard to know what's what, and then you look for some input on a talk page.--Morgan 08:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I could use the help o a bot to fix the redirects of alternative names of the Moon.--Morgan 21:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- The pages which link to Ithil, Ránar, and Isil should have these internal links to be redirected to Moon#Other names.--Morgan 21:22, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
New signs 3[edit source]
Hi, could you add •, already thanks! --Amroth 18:57, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, Ederchil for adding the symbol.
- Can you or Ederchil please add the symbols: ę , ƿ , ȳ , Ṽ , ø̃, ɛ̃, ɔ . Thanks! --Amroth 19:32, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- Finn and Hengest. --Amroth 11:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, Mith. --Amroth 14:08, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Would you mind adding š to the insert box? The letter appears in, for example, some Valarin names. Thanks /--Morgan 08:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
- Apparently my talk page is being monitored so I have not been allowed to help you. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 13:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Index:Locations[edit source]
Could you please add Haerast to Index:Locations? Perhaps also Far Shore, I'll leave it up to your discretion.--Morgan 00:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- The redlink Haerest (appearing in the Index:Locations) appears to be a misspelling (did some quick searches), so I think you could safely substitute that for Haerast.--Morgan 00:49, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
Could you please add Sindanórie to Index:Locations? You might also want to check if someone has replied to Talk:Sindanórie. --Morgan 08:33, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
sandbox/Sandbox[edit source]
Sorry about the misspelled "User:Arwen.lb/sandbox"! I thought that it would automatically yield a capital S as in "Sandbox", but I was wrong. You learn from your mistakes! --Morgan 19:29, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
ISBN/ASIN in Template:Book[edit source]
Hi Mith. I've sometimes added the ASIN code to publications lacking an ISBN. However, in the new Template:Book, the ASIN code turns up strange (as I've always made a WP link explaining what ASIN is). Example: The Hobbit 50th Anniversary. Would you know how to fix this (or should we skip giving ASIN codes?)? --Morgan 19:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
- I know I spoke to you about this in chat, but for the sake of anyone else wondering, I think the ASIN shouldn't be used as it's a "commercial" referencing system, only relevant to one online shop. I would suggest a LCCN (Library of Congress Control Number) as the only other standard referencing system; the problem with that is that it is only really used as a reference in the US - little used or understood by us Europeans - which I feel is inappropriate for global publications initially released in the UK. I don't think it's a massive problem and I think we can just leave out any reference marker altogether. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Bot job: Eru[edit source]
Hi Mith. Would it be tricky to program your bot to relink "Eru" to "Ilúvatar", or should I do it manually? I've sorted the double redirects. Thanks, --Morgan 19:59, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
- Done. You hasn't quite got all the double redirects, though! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:08, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Deletion policy[edit source]
How do we do when it's not so obvious to remove links to an article suggested for deletion? These internal links are from talk pages and similar non-content articles - do I just remove the [[]]? --Morgan 11:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- When it's not obvious I usually remove the links when/if I decide to delete the page. If you reckon there's no doubt that I will decide to delete something, remove the links for me! --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 23:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
- I usually remove the "[[]]" and italicise it to show that it used to be a a link.-- KingAragorn talk contribs edits email 14:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think that works because it just looks like there was an italics on it from the start - you may notice on my personal to-do list there is a "red-link template" listed to solve this problem.
- Can I also remind you both that I do not delete articles or files that have internal links. --Mith (Talk/Contribs/Edits) 18:54, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


text:
Is it odd to be subdued?
Having observed that we are subdued and that it is odd, Krugman applies the label: shame. We are ashamed of ourselves for what we did after the attacks.
Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue.Te atrocity. Fix the typo, Mr. Krugman. People will think you haven't given enough weight to the atrocity. As long as we're looking for symptoms and making diagnoses, I might as well do it too.
The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.You don't want to see what you don't want to see, which is oddly at odds with your belief that Americans have a shameful way of blinding ourselves to the full range of what is happening and what we are doing.
I'm not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
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text:
Google Enables Payments Through Gmail to Garner Google Wallet Adoption
Google Wallet has been unable to catch wide public interest since its release two years ago, and just last week the former head of Google Wallet, Osama Bedier, left the project. In a move that seems aimed at gaining wider visibility for the wallet solution, Google announced yesterday on its commerce blog that it will integrate Google Wallet into Gmail to allow payments through Gmail.
[See Related: Google Wallet Head Osama Bedier Quits]
Gmail has 425 million users worldwide, according to Google, which could give the wallet a strong base to work from in its bid to get more users on board. To make a payment through Gmail, users will click on a dollar sign icon in the Gmail tools bar, which will allow them to send money, similar to sending an attachment. Users will then enter the amount they wish to send to the recipient and click "send," Google said.
The recipient will not need to have a Gmail address to retrieve the funds, according to Google. The service will be free for Google Wallet users. The money will be taken out of their Google Wallet balance or will be charged to a bank account linked to their wallet.
Gmail users who aren't signed up for Google Wallet will be able to send money to by charging a credit or debit card, but will have to pay a fee to send money.
Google is also leveraging the popularity of its Chrome browser and Android mobile operating system to promote Google Wallet. It announced this week that it will be adding and API to Chrome that will automatically update shipping information with the customer's Google Wallet info to speed up the checkout process online.
And Google will be providing a new Google Wallet Instant Buy API for Android, which aims to simplify in-app purchases for retailers and merchants. As with the Chrome API, customer's information will similarly be drawn from their Google Wallet accounts to set up a faster check out, and Google Wallet's purchase protection policy will cover all transactions. The retailers who have already signed up for the Android API for their apps include Booking.com, Uber and Priceline, Google said in a statement.
Jonathan Camhi has been an associate editor with Bank Systems & Technology since 2012. He previously worked as a freelance journalist in New York City covering politics, health and immigration, and has a master's degree from the City University of New York's Graduate School ... View Full Bio


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text:
As flood waters rose Sunday, a South African crocodile farmer near the border with Botswana was forced to open his gates to prevent a storm surge from destroying the property.
And, no, this isn't the plot of some horror flick:
About 15,000 crocodiles escaped, according to the local newspaper, Beeld.
The Guardian writes that "although 'a few thousand' have since been recaptured, including one at a school rugby ground 75 miles away, more than half of the reptiles are still at large."
One family, according to the BBC, had to be rescued from their flooded home as "crocodiles were swimming around them."
The Guardian adds that "animal safety experts warned the public to stay indoors and away from the crocodiles." Which sounds wise to us.
While the crocodiles presumably vary in size, photos posted on the farm's website show that some are quite big — including at least one that's more than 18 feet long. The Rakwena Crocodile Farm's curio shop boasts "a wide variety of crocodile leather belts, hats, purses and rifle slings." Also, "light lunches can be booked and tasty crocodile meat dishes are available."
One more kind of creepy note: Beeld says most of the crocs are being captured at night, when it's easier to see them because their eyes shine red.
Many of the crocodiles, by the way, escaped into the Limpopo River — the "great grey-green, greasy Limpopo River" of Rudyard Kipling's short story The Elephant's Child, in which the "Elephant's Child asked a fine new question. ... 'What does the Crocodile have for dinner?' "
Copyright 2020 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.


text:
For his second Inauguration, Barack Obama delivered the campaign speech he never got to give before his re-election, a paean to progressive values that called for a new movement of citizen activism to combat global warming, push for more gun control, protect entitlements and strive for greater equality among economic classes, genders and sexual orientations.
"You and I, as citizens, have the power to set this country's course," he said, in a return to his organizing roots. "You and I, as citizens, have the obligation to shape the debates of our time, not only with the votes we cast but with the voices we lift."
Gone were the appeals that drove his first presidential campaign — of crossing party lines, transcending ideological differences and uniting the country. Speaking to a sea of supporters on Washington's National Mall, Obama gave voice to what his advisers have long said in private: that the only way for the President to work his will on a divided government over the next two years is to apply tremendous outside pressure on his opponents. "We, the people," was his refrain, an activist appropriation of the opening words of the U.S. Constitution.
"We have always understood that when times change, so must we; that fidelity to our founding principles requires new responses to new challenges; that preserving our individual freedoms ultimately requires collective action," he said, neatly summarizing the ideological underpinnings of modern American liberalism.
He said that "our journey is not complete until our wives, our mothers and daughters can earn a living equal to their efforts," and "until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law." He called for immigration reform that would "welcome the striving, hopeful immigrants who still see America as the land of opportunity," said no citizen should have to wait for hours in order to vote, and referenced the coming battle over guns by saying that "from the streets of Detroit to the hills of Appalachia to the quiet lanes of Newtown," children must always feel safe. He cited Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech on the National Mall and placed himself in the tradition of "Seneca Falls and Selma and Stonewall," key landmarks in the fights for women's equality, civil rights and gay rights.
Though Obama made no direct reference to his Republican opponents, he made clear his intent to engage directly over the coming years. "We cannot mistake absolutism for principle or substitute spectacle for politics or treat name calling as reasoned debate," he said. At another point, he laid into those who deny the reality of climate change, a subject he rarely raised during the campaign for political reasons. "Some may still deny the overwhelming judgment of science, but none can avoid the devastating impact of raging fires and crippling drought and more powerful storms," he said.
Obama's first Inaugural Address, in January 2009, was a dour recitation of the struggles facing the U.S. After the soaring rhetoric and expectations of the 2008 campaign, Obama stood on the Capitol steps to declare that the country was "in the midst of crises now well understood." He compared the moment to the darkest days of the Revolutionary War, when "the capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood."
In contrast, Obama did not dwell on the current struggles of the country in his second Inaugural Address. He made only passing reference to the ongoing jobs crisis in the U.S., twice referring to needs for further federal investments to spur new growth. He also glossed over impending international crises, from Syria to Iran to North Africa, focusing instead on general principles for foreign engagement, from the support of international alliances to the promotion of democracy. Whereas he wore a red tie for his 2009 Inauguration, this time he wore one of powder blue, nearly matching the color of his 2012 campaign signs.
"Progress does not compel us to settle centuries-long debates about the role of government for all time, but it does require us to act in our time," he said, in reference to the ongoing battles with House Republicans. "For now decisions are upon us, and we cannot afford delay."
After the ceremony concluded, the President walked to the doorway of the Capitol and paused, allowing his entourage to continue inside. He turned and faced the National Mall, where hundreds of thousands had gathered to celebrate his re-election as President. For nearly a minute, he just took the scene in and then ducked inside for the rest of the festivities.
An hour later, his new political organization, a nonprofit called Organizing for Action, sent an e-mail to supporters that ended, "Now it's time to finish what we started — let's get going." The e-mail was signed "Barack."


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The American Standard 2932.448CK2-D0.020 has been discontinued
** See similar or replacement items below **
American Standard Studio 60" Acrylic Air / Whirlpool Combo Bathtub with Reversible Drain, EcoSilent System, EverClean Technology, Heated Air Blower, AcuMassage Jets, and Chromatherapy Lighting - Lifetime Warranty
Model: 2932.448CK2-D0.020
Product Overview
This product has additional required/recommended options. To configure, add to your cart.
- Tub Waste Required
- Water Heater Recommended
Product Features:
- Fully covered under a lifetime warranty; including free lifetime in-home service
- Manufactured and assembled in Canada
- Combination Air Bath / Whirlpool tub; legendary massage jetted action with soothing heated air bubble action
- Drop-in installation; tub is dropped into a pre-cut deck or island
- Constructed of ultra-durable fiberglass-reinforced acrylic
- Surfaced with the industry's best stain-blocking high-gloss finish
- Tub proportions and contour designed by industry leading ergonomics engineers
- Slip-resistant flooring - textured finishing technique applied
- Self-leveling base structural support cuts installation time and costs
- Tub waste (drain) is not included - this will be presented upon adding to cart, with multiple available finishes
Luxury Bathing Experience:
By combining Air Bath and Whirlpool technologies within a single tub, American Standard Combo tubs are at the pinnacle of the hydrotherapy market. During each bathe, you'll have your choice between the two following systems…or run both at the same time:
- Air Bath: A unique form of hydrotherapy, Air Bath systems disperse millions of heated air bubbles through release points surrounding the perimeter of the tub. As the bubbles gently break against your skin, the full-body experience is like being lightly caressed all over. Air Baths are warm, calming, and spiritual.
- Whirlpool: Legendary for a reason, Whirlpool systems push air-induced water through strategically placed jets to target muscles that hold tension. They are so effective at relieving tension that they're widely used in sports and rehabilitation medicine. In the home, they provide for a retreat and relief from stress that is unlike any other.
Technologies / Benefits:
- Lifetime Warranty with In-Home Service: This tub is covered under the industry's only Limited Lifetime Warranty with free lifetime in-home service. This speaks volumes to the quality of American Standard tubs.
- EcoSilent System: The sound of true relaxation is no sound at all - that's the idea behind EcoSilent Systems, which cut noise levels by 50% while using 45% less energy than a typical whirlpool. To create a silent and soothing experience, the water pump and air blower are integrated into a single, sound insulated unit that's secured by vibration-absorbing mounts. It's so quiet that people in the next room won't even know that it's running.
- Variable Speed Air Blower with Heater: The Air Bath system on this tub uses a variable speed motor that allows you to select between a calm and gentle setting or brisk and invigorating. The air released is also comfortably pre-heated.
- Simple Controls: A single button turns the whirlpool system on and off, while two dials (one for each side of the tub) operate the whirlpool system power. Another single button operates the entire air bath system. Perfectly simple.
- EverClean: EverClean helps your tub stay clean between uses by continuously inhibiting the growth of bacteria, mold, and mildew. A patented anti-microbial agent (silver-ion) is manufactured directly into the bath's parts and plumbing, so it won't wear off over time.
- In-Line Water Heater: Relaxation, rejuvenation and renewal sometimes means longer baths. For these, this tub boasts a factory-installed in-line water heater (connected to the whirlpool plumbing) to maintain your bath temperature.
- AcuMassage Jets: This state-of-the-art whirlpool system includes strategically placed AcuMax and AcuMotion jets. AcuMax jets move wide streams of water at a lower pressure for a deep tissue massage while AcuMotion rotary jets deliver more targeted swirling streams to invigorate areas such as your feet.
- Silent Air Induction: Whirlpool jets don't push just water – they push air too. In fact, it is the air that is adjusted when you dial in your jet velocity. This process of introducing air to the water is called "air induction". For some whirlpool tubs, air induction can create an irritating hissing sound, but not this tub; air induction is done silently.
- Self-Leveling Base: A major time-saver during installation, this tub's self-leveling base eliminates the need to fret over a perfectly level base structural support. High-density compressible pads do the work for you, compensating for any imperfections. DIY'ers and contractors both appreciate this feature.
- Zero Edge: Definitively modern, the Zero Edge exclusive low-profile tub lip is perfect for undermount installations – or a clean, 'barely there' drop-in appearance.
- Premium Acrylic: Luxury American Standard tubs all use premium acrylic for a reason: it retains a glossy finish, is flexible (will never chip, crack or craze), easy to clean, and far lighter (and easier to install) than cast iron. Premium Acrylic means that it is reinforced with a fiberglass composite for maximum strength.
Product Specifications:
- Overall Length: 60" (head-to-toe measurement when lying inside the tub)
- Overall Width: 32" (shoulder-to-shoulder measurement when lying inside the tub)
- Overall Height: 22-1/2" (exterior height from base structural support to top of tub lip)
- Water Depth: 17-3/4" (height from tub floor drain to overflow outlet)
- Maximum Water Capacity: 59-gallons
- Installation Type: Drop in
- Bath Type: Combo Air/Whirlpool
- Drain Location: Reversible
- Pump Placement: Reversible
- Blower Placement: Reversible
- Material: Premium Acrylic
- Number of Jets: 12
- Lighting: Chromatherapy
- Sound Dampening: EcoSilent
- Country of Origin: Canada
- 2932.448CK2-D0: This model
- 2932.448CK2-D2: This model with 2" deck trim
- 2932.448CK2-D4: This model with 4" deck trim
- 2932.068CK2-D0: Air Bath version of this model
- 2932.048CK2-D0: Whirlpool version of this model
- 2932.002-D0: Soaking Tub version of this model
Why Buy American Standard From Us:
- We are an American Standard Preferred Authorized Online Dealer
- We Only Ship Showroom Quality products vs Builder Grade quality found at big box retailers
- All metal parts, not plastic like some of our competitors
- Customer Care Experts Available 7 Days a Week to Serve You Before & After Purchase
- A Showroom Experience from the Comfort of Your Home or Office
About American Standard:
An American brand with over 140 years of innovations, American Standard is defined by experience, intelligence, and indelible influence. As the patriarch for nearly every key product category for the kitchen and bath, their offering shows a level of thoughtfulness and sophistication that could only be attributed to a company with a legacy as rich as that of American Standard. Today, professional plumbers and contemporary DIY home owners continue to turn to American Standard because they appreciate this legacy and know they can trust the innovations behind each product. It is for this reason that American Standard is so widely used within residential and commercial projects in both the United States and abroad - their products truly deliver, just as they have for generations.
Additional American Standard Links
This product is listed under the following manufacturer number(s):
- American Standard 2932.448CK2-D0.011*
Arctic - American Standard 2932.448CK2-D0.222*
Linen - American Standard 2932.448CK2-D0.020*
*Denotes a finish or option that has been discontinued.
Manufacturer Resources
Dimensions and Measurements
Included Components
Characteristics and Features
Manufacturer Technology
Electrical and Operational Information
Warranty and Product Information
American Standard EcoSilent Whirlpool System
Checkout the American Standard EcoSilent Whirlpool System, and he...


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I'm so excited to share November's featured author with you. Sarah Pekkanen is one of my absolute favorite authors because I love her novels, and also because she is so down to earth and real. So not pretentious and she really seems to care a lot about her readers. She always has a kind word for her Facebook friends, she is a fantastic writer, she takes the time to make the fan feel important!
She has written three novels, The Opposite of Me, Skipping a Beat, These Girls, and her next one, The Best of Us is coming out in the spring! In the meantime, Sarah fulfills our need for her written word with awesome little novels for just 99 cents, and sometimes she even gives them away to her fans for free! Later this month she'll have another e-story out called Beginning Again. I've fallen absolutely in love with her e-story characters, and I really look forward to these little sampling of her books. If you haven't checked them out, you really need to. Start with: All Is Bright and then read Love Accidentally and by the time you finish those two, Beginning Again will be out. (I can't believe there's NO cover for this one yet Sarah!! ACK!!!... Maybe they are still looking for the perfect faceless model? Haha)
Anyway, in honor of Sarah being the Booking with Manic FEATURED AUTHOR of the month, she has graciously offered to give away a set of her three novels here to one winner! SO EXCITED FOR YOU GUYS!!!
I also got to ask her some questions that I thought you all might want to know, so here they are! Thanks so much Sarah, and we can't wait to read Beginning Again, and then The Best of Us!
1. I loved your first book, The Opposite of Me, and the sister dynamic. Do you have a sister, and if so, did you base the story on your relationship at all?
Sarah: Thank you! I actually don't have a sister, but I've always been intrigued by the messy, complicated, intense relationships my friends all seem to have with their sisters, which inspired me to write The Opposite of Me. When I was younger, I yearned for a sister, and imagined she'd be just like me - a little shy and dorky and into Nancy Drew books. Then one day I thought, "Wait - what if I had a sister, and she was nothing like me?" That was when the idea for my first book began brewing.
2. Do you have a hidden manuscript? Anything you'll never share with your fans?
3. You write some incredible short stories that are inexpensive and fun and available on all e-readers. The characters intertwine and like your full-length novels, we can't help but fall in love with them. You have a new one coming out -- what's it called and what's it about?
4. And your next full-length novel is coming out this spring? I know it's about a group of friends who get trapped in Jamaica due to a hurricane. Any more info you can share on it?
Languid hours on a private beach, gourmet dinners, and late nights of drinking kick off an idyllic week for the women and their husbands. But as a powerful hurricane bears down on the island, turmoil swirls inside the villa, forcing each of the women to re-evaluate everything she knows about her friends – and herself.
6. With three boys, your schedule must be nuts -- how can you go from writer to mom? Are there times when you have to say, "OK, Mommy needs a minute, an idea for a scene just came to me, and I HAVE to go write it down?" How do you manage those kinds of things? Can you switch gears like that?
7. What is the absolute best thing about being a writer?
Thank you so much Sarah! It's been fun getting to peek inside your life as a writer and a mother! So for all you readers out there, if you would like to win the set of Sarah's books: The Opposite of Me, Skipping a Beat and These Girls, this is what I'd like you to tell me...
Since Sarah's next book is about a group of four couples going on a luxury vacation, tell me this -- if you could go on a luxury vacation, would you rather go with --
Your husband/spouse/partner?
OR a group of couples friends?
Those are your three choices -- At this point in my life, I would choose a luxury vacation with just my spouse. We sooo need a getaway -- YOUR TURN, tell me your choice and you'll be entered to win!
Also, check out below to see if you won either of the following books recently posted:
Love Anthony: Congrats to: Ludy2288
Charlotte Street: Kimmi with the Penguin logo
If you are either Ludy2288 or Kimmi with the Penguin logo, please email me at firstname.lastname@example.com to claim your book. Include your full name and mailing address so I can get your book to you!
Thanks everyone, more books to come. Still dealing with some health issues with Luke and we have a neurology appointment coming up so please keep us in your thoughts! xo


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One of the things that I like about the winter is that I don't have to think twice about having the oven on all hours of the day. During the summer I try to avoid turning the oven on for any reason but the winter is the perfect time for cooking meals that require a lot of oven time. I had been wanting to try cooking a pot roast for a while and this weekend I finally got around to it. Since a good pot roast requires a lot of oven time to properly roast so it is a nice weekend project. A pot roast is cooked in a liquid to keep the meat nice and moist and it is the perfect opportunity to add some flavour. I cooked the roast in red wine and beef broth along with some herbs and other seasoning. One of the things that I liked about the pot roast was that I could throw some vegetables into the pot with the roast for a super simple side dish that did not dirty any new dishes. I added the vegetables to the pot when the roast was almost done as they would have been mushy if they had been in the whole time. The pot roast turned out pretty good! The beef was nice and moist and tender and falling apart good and the sauce or gravy was nice and tasty and full of flavour. I wanted to work a green vegetable into the meal so I served the pot roast dinner with some peas with pancetta and shallots . The best part of the pot roast is all of the leftovers and I am now looking forward to using them in new and interesting ways.
Pot Roast
- 1 tablespoon oil
- 3-5 pound chuck roast
- 1 tablespoon oil
- 1 onion (chopped)
- 4 cloves garlic (chopped)
- 1 cup red wine
- 3 cups beef broth
- 4 sprigs of thyme
- 2 bay leaves
- 2 tablespoons tomato paste
- 2 tablespoons dijon mustard
- salt and pepper to taste
- 4 carrots (peeled and cut into bite sized pieces)
- 8 "new" potatoes (cut in half)
- Heat the oil in a large oven proof pan.
- Add the beef and brown on all sides and set aside.
- Heat the oil in the same pan.
- Add the onions and saute until tender, about 5-7 minutes.
- Add the garlic and saute until fragrant, about a minute.
- Add the red wine and deglaze the pan.
- Add the beef broth, thyme, tomato paste, dijon mustard, salt and pepper and bring to a boil.
- Add the roast, cover and cook in a preheated 325F/170C oven until fork tender, about 3-5 hours.
- Add the carrots and potatoes during the last 20 minutes of cooking.


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Dear All,
We need the entire Community's input and advice.
We do not charge any fee for what we do here in the Forum, and we do not now accept donations. This place has always been provided as a service to all who sit, and Taigu and I do not ever want to require, push or aggressively solicit donations.
Despite this, many of our members have, from time to time, expressed the wish to make some small donation to us without any solicitation by us, all simply from the goodness of their heart. Until now, we have turned down even such donations.
However, there is no ignoring the fact that there are items involved in running this community that could use funding, such as any future significant upgrades and improvements in the computer and audio-visual software and hardware we use at the heart of what we do here, costs faced in organizing "on site" Sesshin we would like to offer here and there in the coming years, costs of placing the sometime notice in Buddhist publications and places like "SweepingZen" to let people know we exist, and the like. (Here, for example, is the little notice we run at SweepingZen, to let Zen folks like yourselves know of the resources available here):
Such is necessary to fulfill our "mission statement":
Right now, most all funding comes from my (Jundo's) pocket and from Taigu, but all our priests give their daily time and money to this place without any compensation. (None of our priests receive any salary or like compensation for what they do here, and they never will even if we accept donations.)Treeleaf Zendo was designed specifically as an online practice place for Zen practitioners who cannot easily commute to a Zen Center due to health concerns, living in remote areas, or work, childcare and family needs, and seeks to provide Zazen sittings, retreats, discussion, interaction with a teacher, and all other activities of a Zen Buddhist Sangha, all fully online.
For this reason, we are proposing that we begin to accept donations that people voluntarily wish to contribute from time to time. In doing so, we will continue not to require or pressure anyone to do so in any way. There will be no obligation whatsoever, Treeleaf will remain totally free, and any giving will just be as the person feels.
What do you think?
Here is what Taigu and I Propose:
-1- All services of this Sangha would continue to be without charge, and no fee or donation will ever be solicited or even suggested. However, there will be some place on our web page where people could click to make a donation should they wish, purely from their own inspiration to do so. The link will connect to PayPal or a like service where donations can be accepted for charities. (Some unusual and special events ... like a Sesshin in America or Europe in a borrowed hall ... might require participants to pay for their food, room and space rental, but even then we will try to do what we can ... including using donations ... to help cover the expenses of people wishing to come with a true economic hardship).
-2- We will establish a small bank account and a "Donation Expenditure Approval & Oversight Board", which will probably consist of about 5 of our long time members (other than Taigu and me) appointed by consensus of the whole community. Taigu and I would propose something we think we need to spend money on, and then ask the board to approve it by majority vote. The board would have to approve all expenditures. The board would also oversee the bank account, and the making of a balance sheet or report showing every penny that comes in and goes out. That balance sheet and report will be disclosed to the entire community each year, showing all income and expenditures (however, while amounts of donations will be shown, the identity of all donors will remain anonymous).
-3- Treeleaf will -not- incorporate as a "charitable corporation", a "501(c)(3)" with the American IRS or the like. We will remain an unincorporated association. The reason is that there is little benefit, and much cost, annual paperwork and complexity, if we were to do so. For example (and although we know that nobody will be making a donation thinking about a 'tax deduction'), donors in the U.S. should be able to claim the same tax deduction whether we incorporate/become a "501(c)(3)" or not. The IRS will treat us the same. Furthermore, it would not help people in countries outside the US receive a deduction, which they may or may not anyway (they need to ask their accountant about the rules in their own country if concerned about this). In any event, we believe that donations should be made without thinking about some "tax deduction".
-4- Our "Online 'Dana' Bowl" would be accompanied by a message expressing that we do need money to keep a (digital) roof on this house, and people can give what they feel in their hearts they are receiving from being here. If people have little or no money, it is fine to donate little or nothing at all. One does what one can. If someone has more money, and feels it is right, one can donate more than someone without much money. All donations are completely voluntary, without obligation, according to ability, and according to what one feels in one's heart.
-5- We will continue to ask our Sangha members to be generous ... beyond where it begins to hurt ... in making financial donations and/or volunteering with other public charities which are engaged in such activities as feeding the poor, finding a cure for a disease and like good works in society.
-6- Our informal survey revealed that most Buddhist groups (not to mention churches and other religious groups) accept donations, and I am sure you know some can be quite aggressive about it. We will never be demanding of donations, or use any pressure whether overt or subtle.
That is basically the plan as it stands.
Please freely post any comments or questions.
Gassho, Jundo (on behalf of Taigu too).


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Britain Urged to Split Banks if New Rules Fail
Britain should adopt legislation that could force all banks to split routine retail operations from riskier investment activities if new rules designed to protect taxpayers fail, an influential panel of lawmakers said.
Any decision would have to be recommended by an independent review and the final decision to act on an industry-wide basis would lie with the government and parliament, not with the regulator.
The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards, which has been asked to find ways to reform banks, also said on Monday that Britain's financial regulator should be given the responsibility to decide how far banks can leverage their capital for investment and lending.
The government's Banking Reform Bill is due to be debated in parliament on Monday. But Conservative MP Andrew Tyrie, who heads the commission, said that current proposals to change the industry fall short of what is required.
"There remains much more work to be done to improve the bill," he said in a report published ahead of the debate.
Britain is determined to prevent a repeat of the need for taxpayer-funded bank bailouts after the 65 billion pound ($97 billion) double rescue of Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group in 2008.
The commission was set up amid public outcry after Barclays was fined for rigging global interest rates, the latest in a string of banking scandals including the mis-selling of loan insurance and complex interest rate hedging products to small firms.
Finance Minister George Osborne said in February he would take up a recommendation made by the commission that any individual bank that tried to find a way around the new laws could be broken up by the regulator.
All the leading British banks, including Barclays, HSBC and RBS, will be affected by the legislation.
The industry, however, has warned that the severity of the proposed reforms - more rigorous than those in France and Germany - could put British banks at a disadvantage against continental rivals such as Deutsche Bank and BNP Paribas.
"This will create uncertainty for investors, making it more difficult for banks to raise capital, which will ultimately mean that banks will have less money to lend to businesses," the British Bankers' Association (BBA) said last month.
The BBA's plea appears to have held little sway with the commission and Tyrie said that a "second reserve power for full, industry-wide separation" needed to be included.
"The bill would be strengthened by making specific provision to consider the case for full, industry-wide separation if the ring-fence is judged to be failing. As is appropriate, the final decision would lie with the government and parliament and not with the regulator," the commission said in its report.
It is recommending a periodic review of whether banks are sticking to the rules.
Among the proposals to rein in risk-taking is the leverage cap. The commission wants this set at 25 times banks' capital. The government wants a weaker cap of 33 times capital, which the commission's report said is "unlikely to provide a robust enough backstop".
The commission called on the government to delay pushing through the Banking Reform Bill until its final report is published in May.
"The task of sorting out the banking industry, of which this bill will form a major part, is absolutely essential for the long-term health of the British economy. Let's get it right," the commission said. ($1 = 0.6699 British pounds)
(Editing by David Goodman)
Copyright 2013 by Reuters. All rights reserved.


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Multi-vehicle crash stalls traffic on I-610
Posted on Tuesday, June 30th, 2020 at 10:00 am
HOUSTON, TX – ABC 13 reports that a multi-vehicle crash stalled traffic on I-610 this morning.
The accident was reported near the freeway's intersection with Braeswood. The cause of the accident is not yet known, but it was cleared around 8:05 a.m.
People dislike attorneys until they actually need one. Attorney Tom's team of Houston personal injury lawyers is prepared to help you if you've been hurt in an accident. Call (713) 903-2579 or fill out an online contact form and an experienced legal professional will reach out to you.
Note: This site is dedicated to reporting on accidents and injuries. We refer to existing news sources to create our posts. News articles often are updated to reflect new developments. Contact us if you have noticed any false or out of date information in this post so we can update it to be as informative as possible.
Disclaimer: Attorneytom.com is a local website. We hope that by exposing the frequency of accidental injuries in our community, we can help make the greater Houston area a safer place. It is our hope that exposing the prevalence of preventable injuries will help our friends and neighbors take the necessary measures to avoid such accidents. Information on accidentattorney.io is not legal advice


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Archaeologists have discovered evidence for a previously unknown ancient language – buried in the ruins of a 2800 year old Middle Eastern palace.
The discovery is important because it may help reveal the ethnic and cultural origins of some of history's first 'barbarians' – mountain tribes which had, in previous millennia, preyed on the world's first great civilizations, the cultures of early Mesopotamia in what is now Iraq.
Evidence of the long-lost language - probably spoken by a hitherto unknown people from the Zagros Mountains of western Iran – was found by a Cambridge University archaeologist as he deciphered an ancient clay writing tablet unearthed by an international archaeological team excavating an Assyrian imperial governors' palace in the ancient city of Tushan, south-east Turkey.
The tablet revealed the names of 60 women – probably prisoners-of-war or victims of an Assyrian forced population transfer program. But when the Cambridge archaeologist – Dr. John MacGinnis - began to examine the names in detail, he realized that 45 of them bore no resemblance to any of the thousands of ancient Middle Eastern names already known to scholars.
Typical names, born by the women – the evidence for the lost language – include Ushimanay, Alagahnia, Irsakinna and Bisoonoomay.
Journal of Near Eastern Studies
Evidence for a Peripheral Language in a Neo-Assyrian Tablet from the Governor's Palace in Tušhan (pp. 13-20) John MacGinnis DOI: 10.1086/664450 Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/664450