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case scenario for the Flames' record this year?"
A handful of elite teams are already looking ahead to the possibility of a deep playoff run. Others are left to contemplate trade deadline fire sales and wonder where it all went wrong. Here's a look at the winners and losers from the first half of the season.
Winner: Calgary Flames - The struggling franchise continues to draw comparisons to the 2008 Maple Leafs, which is great news since it means they're only a few years away from being able to trade all their worst players to the Calgary Flames.
Loser: Pittsburgh Penguins - Have had to deal with a ridiculous string of significant injuries, we think, although it's hard to say since their guy in charge of reporting injuries is currently injured.
Winner: St. Louis Blues - Goaltender Brian Elliot has put up outstanding numbers ever since new coach Ken Hitchcock broke down film of his time with the Senators and suggested he try the slight adjustment of turning his goalie mask around so that the eyeholes are in the front.
Loser: New Jersey Devils - In hindsight, the team probably could have recognized Patrik Elias for reaching the 1,000 games milestone without showing that scoreboard message that said "Congratulations on playing almost as many games as Ilya Kovalchuk still has left to go on his contract".
Winner: Anaheim Ducks - Swirling trade speculation can often leave a star player tearing his hair out, so it's probably just as well that it's happening to Ryan Getzlaf.
Loser: Tampa Bay Lightning - May be relying too much on their patented 1-3-1 defensive system, in which one player forechecks deep, three clog the neutral zone, and one fishes the puck out of the net while Dwayne Roloson tries to show it picture of his grandchildren.
Winner: Colorado Avalanche - Are a miraculous 7-0 in shootouts so far this season, although it's probably unfair that they get to keep bringing in Tim Tebow to play net.
Loser: Toronto Maple Leafs - Phil Kessel is slowly starting to realize that there was something strange about that preseason bet where he promised to spend the entire year setting up Joffrey Lupul if he'd agree to wear a jersey with his name spelled backwards.
Winner: Boston Bruins - Thanks to the excellent play of Tim Thomas and Tuukka Rask, the team's goals against average is so ridiculously low that it was recently mistaken for a Brad Marchand body check.
Loser: Ottawa Senators - Their forwards may seem to be putting up impressive scoring totals, but a closer look reveals that almost all the goals are the result of Erik Karlsson banking the puck in off somebody who wasn't paying attention because he "wanted to make it more challenging".
Winner: New York Rangers - Were able to get a win at the Winter Classic, which is great because playing in that game is a rare opportunity that the Rangers will likely only have four or five more times this decade.
Loser: Winnipeg Jets - Will be stuck in the Southeast Division for another season thanks to the NHLPA blocking the league's realignment plans, meaning they'll be forced to make multiple midwinter trips to Carolina and Tampa Bay and Miami and wait I think I may have figured out which players voted against this.
Winner: Phoenix Coyotes - Shane Doan recorded the first hat trick of his 17-year career on Saturday, which was a nice moment because it gave the fans in Phoenix a five-month head start on throwing away Coyotes merchandise.
Loser: Columbus Blue Jackets - General manager Scott Howson has been so inundated with around-the-clock phone calls about trading star winger Rick Nash to a contending team that he eventually had to tell Rick Nash to stop phoning him.


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You may vote once per person.
If you would like to support your favorite show in person, then register to come to come to the four hour Indie Soap Awards party in Manhattan, at New World Stages, on February 21st, 2012. For only $69.95 you can come view the ceremony, meet your favorite stars, and enjoy the open bar!
Register: $69.99. Enter affiliation and press "Add to Cart." You will be prompted for the number of people in your party and method of payment.
- NOMINATIONS: 3rd Annual Indie Soap Awards
- Why 2012 Will Be "The Year Of The Soap" (Part 1)
- Why 2012 Will Be "The Year Of The Soap" (Part 2): DARK SHADOWS, RAGGED ISLE, DALLAS, Univision Telenovelas and More


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Well our friends Annie and Lorna from Sew Obsessed have another great fabric giveaway for you today!! Wahoo!! These girlies just ooze with creativity, check out Annie's latest tutorial on Originate and Renovate:
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Rebhorn's agent, Dianne Busch, said Sunday that the actor died Friday at his home in South Orange, N.J, after a long battle with skin cancer.
Busch said Rebhorn was diagnosed with melanoma in 1992 but managed to work until the last month.
In five decades of television and film work, Rebhorn amassed more than 100 credits, ranging from a shipping magnate in "The Talented Mr. Ripley" to the prosecutor in the series finale of "Seinfeld," in which he famously sent the group to jail.
The lanky but piercing Rebhorn, raised a Lutheran in Indiana, often played astringent authorities, like the headmaster in "Scent of a Woman" or the Secretary of Defense in "Independence Day."
On "Homeland," he played the father of Claire Danes' CIA officer Carrie Mathison. He also had a recurring role on the USA Network series "White Collar" playing the FBI head of a white-collar crime unit.
Other credits of the Philadelphia-born Rebhorn, who received his masters in acting from Columbia University, include "The Game," ''Real Steel," ''Law & Order," ''Carlito's Way" and "Meet the Parents."
Rebhorn also frequently worked in theater, starring on Broadway in revivals of "Our Town," ''12 Angry Men" and the original 1985 production of "I'm Not Rappaport."
He is survived by his wife, Rebecca Linn, and two daughters.


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John Newbery Medal
In 1921 Frederic G.Melcher had the Newbery Medal designed by René Paul Chambellan. The bronze medal has the winner's name and the date engraved on the back. The American Library Association Executive Board in 1922 delegated to the Children's Librarians' Section the responsibility for selecting the book to receive the Newbery Medal.
The inscription on the Newbery Medal still reads "Children's Librarians' Section," although the section has changed its name four times and its membership now includes both school and public library children's librarians in contrast to the years 1922-58, when the section, under three different names, included only public library children's librarians. Today the Medal is administered by the Association for Library Service to Children, a division of ALA.
How the Newbery Medal Came to Be
The Newbery Medal is awarded annually by the American Library Association for the most distinguished American children's book published the previous year. On June 22, 1921, Frederic G. Melcher proposed the award to the American Library Association meeting of the Children's Librarians' Section and suggested that it be named for the eighteenth-century English bookseller John Newbery. The idea was enthusiastically accepted by the children's librarians, and Melcher's official proposal was approved by the ALA Executive Board in 1922. In Melcher's formal agreement with the board, the purpose of the Newbery Medal was stated as follows: "To encourage original creative work in the field of books for children. To emphasize to the public that contributions to the literature for children deserve similar recognition to poetry, plays, or novels. To give those librarians, who make it their life work to serve children's reading interests, an opportunity to encourage good writing in this field."
The Newbery Award thus became the first children's book award in the world. Its terms, as well as its long history, continue to make it the best known and most discussed children's book award in this country.
From the beginning of the awarding of the Newbery and Caldecott Medals, committees could, and usually did, cite other books as worthy of attention. Such books were referred to as Newbery or Caldecott "runners-up." In 1971 the term "runners-up" was changed to "honor books." The new terminology was made retroactive so that all former runners-up are now referred to as Newbery or Caldecott Honor Books.


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Thursday, July 30, 2009
81 comments:
Well, it's apparent from that article why many OSR gamers would balk from saying those things for fear of being rude or insular... that post was very much both of those things! That post would have been much better served by simply stating that "we play this kind of game because we like it" rather than descending into calling subsequent playstyles "crap"---especially after arguing so much that he didn't want the OSR movement dismissed in that very manner.
ReplyDeleteIndeed; I thought it was a fairly moderate summing up; "crap" is a fairly subjective statement, but it is nonetheless true that such is the view of many neo-traditionalists towards play styles that they do not favour. To say so on a website devoted to such games would be impolite, but to say it at the Knights & Knaves Alehouse is perfectly natural.
ReplyDeleteYes, I realize that. The point is, after spending the better part of several paragraphs "complaining" that enjoyers of subsequent playstyles dismiss the OSR, he then turned around and completely dismissed anything other than the OSR. He also made the completely unsupported and unsupportable assertion that non-OSR style gaming nearly killed the hobby.
I hardly found the post "awe-inspiring"; rather it was a very good example of how over-defensiveness and one-true-wayism have made the OSR a bitter pill to swallow to folks who might otherwise have been interested. He tried for a while to adopt a more pluralistic, "this is what we like and this is what you (may) like and that's fine" approach, but it really broke down before the entire essay ended.I think you are probably reading more into it than what is there to be honest. Of course, being on the other side of the fence perhaps I just do not see the offence, but I do not read it as defensive or an overreaction, nor even as a statement of "true wayism", it just reads clearly.
I cannot really see the bit where he says that non OSR (I really dislike that acronym) nearly "killed the hobby". It seems to me he is saying that non OSR approaches nearly killed off the "OSR type" of game, which seems a quite supportable stance.What if non-D&D rpgs had continued to be more like Boot Hill and Classic Traveller and Stormbringer and hadn't turned into the bloated style-over-substance splatbook and metaplot-ridden wankfests?
The rest of the OSR self-definition / refutation of error stuff I can take or leave, but this part is very, very relevant to my interests.- AnonymousJuly 30, 2009 at 10:54 AM
I also agree with Joshua- hardly "awe-inspiring" Sounded like a loaded Q&A version of Edition Wars :yawn:
Being negative of those who think differently to promote your own preferences/products is a piss-poor way to do things. It seems to me he is saying that non OSR approaches nearly killed off the "OSR type" of game, which seems a quite supportable stance.
I think even more exactly he's saying that he's not that big a fan of the non-OSR approaches that came along and took over, which is why he's exploring the OSR in the first place. It's a little cranky, but compared to the 4th edition wars that broke out, or even Mishler-gate it's barely a rant, and light-years away from a screed. :)
Simply, Trent is measuring The One True Way as how the folks who like the OSR want to engage and enjoy the hobby. There isn't anything wrong with that. As a matter of fact it's a very good point, and the one that bears the most repeating.
Everyone in gaming should do what they do because they get enjoyment or satisfaction from doing it. In that regard, the OSR is just one more path to fun for RPG fans to explore.Interesting read. I had hoped it might be less argumentative and more persuasive, but that's just me thinking about a recent conversation I had.
My group just finished their first Labyrinth Lord adventure a couple of days ago (it took 2-3 sessions total). I was running a play-test of a module for 2nd-3rd level PCs. It was a fairly straightforward crawl with a few twists here and there. I had pre-gens ready and it was 3d6 in order for scores, 0hp = dead. I rolled dice in the open and played them as they lay.
Everyone seemed to have a good time, so in that sense it was a success. The players sometimes had trouble letting go of their "Crunchier" playstyles, where they want things like individual skills and detailed modifiers, etc. But mostly they played well with kept things light.
Afterward, one of my players asked me why I like "These old games." When we played as kids, it was mostly 1e, not "Classic" and we've since moved on to many other more "modern" games (not just D&D). He assumed it was simply nostalgia, or some similar motive.
The best I could say to him was "I have read and played MANY game systems, and if I find this sort of system fits my gaming philosophy best. I enjoy a little quirkiness in my rules, and if there's something I don't like, it's easily changed. I don't like the emphasis on the rules that other games bring to the table. The rules should get out of the way and let the players (including the GM) drive. I like a game where you can understand the basics in about 15 minutes and be playing in less than 30. The fact that a game like LL includes as much as it does and is still so simple to learn and play is a marvel to me."
I'm not sure I really convinced anyone, but I'm not out to win a debate. I just want to game.And, really, it shouldn't be about convincing anyone. I think it's relevent and even interesting and possibly important (in a relative sense) to explore why you like doing things a certain way. But at the end of the day, that's what you like doing. You don't need to justify your game to anyone (except, I guess, maybe potential players.)
No, the problem I had with the article was that it purported to "take on" a lot of the common non-OSR rhetoric, but then it really failed to do so without thinly veiled (or often not even veiled at all) attacks on other playstyles.
Oh, it's clear alright. I'll grant it that. Unfortunately, it's clear that the stereotype of the OSR gamer as a bitter, cranky, disaffected fatbeard who's finally, due to the Internet, the OGL, and a few enterprising fans who've "reverse engineered" the old games via the OGL, who finally has a soapbox on which to stand, is a sadly relevent stereotype after all.
The link here infers that this is an intelligent "rebuttal" or "state of the nation" type response for the OSR movement, and I really don't think it is at all.fatbeards
lovely. I'm stealing this.
I was once told that all kinds of fundamentalism - the desire to get "back to basics" - were attempts to change the way things work at that basic level; to make fundamental attacks on the status quo, at least for some group of people. This piece seems to avowedly be about that: taking a branch point early in the hobby and trying to diverge there, without dragging all the history and paraphernalia of the other branch(es) along with you. That seems quite relevant among Old Schoolers as a group.Of course it is fundamentalism. The OD&D revival pretty closely parallels other types of fundamentalism. There are founding texts, which the fundamentalists spend all their time reading to discern the real meaning of, and what the majority of the community imagines as doctrine or settled is dismissed as innovation that was harmful to the original ideas.
James Maliszewski is a fundamentalist, so is James Raggi, etc.
This post is unable to contain its disdain for later styles of play, using the word "crap" repeatedly, along with things like malarkey, wankfests, etc. Nothing in it is really new or inspiring, and I'm surprised JM bothered to post the link.It was mostly a good piece, but was undercut when the author followed up on "that doesn't mean this style of play is invalid for everyone else" by calling newer styles of play "crap".
Assuming you really believe that people should try out the playstyle you like or at least avoid antagonizing you for liking it, why then immediately antagonize those who are enjoying something else by calling it crap?
I could understand it happening later if someone had come into the thread with a firebomb or something (it's the internet, people get worked up about things, nobody's perfect), but right in the same post, just a couple paragraphs later? That just undercuts both points.I think his attitude is a bit harsh and dour. I don't know that I agree that people don't take that approach out of fear of offending someone.
At least for me, I don't take that approach because it's pointlessly angry, absolutist, and confrontational where it's just not necessary. The OSR isn't a "with us or against us" thing--or at least doesn't have to be. I dig OD&D. I mean I really dig OD&D. And first edition. And Second edtion, and yes, even third edition. I don't dig 4th, but that's a whole 'nother issue. Just because you like old school playing doesn't mean you have to abhor what came later, too. Nor is a "good for you; piss off, then" attitude helpful to the spreading of the movement.
The problems with a lot of these types of movements is the obsession of the founders with trying to keep them "underground" to try and maintain some sort of imaginary "integrity." Personally, I'd rather see the OSR hit the mainstream, so some publishers with budgets and resources would contact those of us already involved and offer to work with us on things (aside from the limited distribution deals that have been offered a few of us).
In short: raging and drawing lines in the sand don't help us, they only hurt. Just my two cents.Yeah, I've had a bit of a revelation regarding this issue and others.
If the book says something, then many who like literal interpretations (Read as Written) then see things in that black and white way. They don't want real-world complications clouding the clear definition of how the game-coding-language operates the gaming engine. That's cool, and it makes a sort of sense to me. Not how I run, but that doesn't diminish its worth.
I think, especially after the Trent Foster 'awe' post, that it has been crystallised that 197x is purely a philosophy and mindset, and not really a way of understanding things outside the box/text -until- the GM/Ref decides that they are going to -House Rule- it. Once HR'd, it becomes the new box/text by which to measure things. So, if the text of the '7x book being used says: 'xyz' then it is 'xyz' unless the Ref says that after some consideration it is 'zbd'. Good and well, and no need for those of us who do not take the game as 'BtB' as gospel to dogpile those who do. It's just the way those folks (perhaps the majority of the Old Guard, possibly not) want to understand and run their games.
Now that I know that, I mean, really KNOW that to be the case, I'll have much less to comment on. Like Fundamentalism as regards Politics and Religion, dogmatic adherence is just the way some folks like to be, and as long as no one get hurt, its all cool.
As regards the term 'Luddites', it seems as though they are only Luddites if the 'way forward' really is better. In this case, 'the way forward' may as well be seen as simply another branch on a tree limb. Those not following that progression (the '7x' progression) are still on the same tree, if not on the same branch, and that's great, as multiple branches hold more life-sustaining leaves than a tree with only one branch.
So, I'm signing the Peace Treaty with the Literalists/BtB'ers while remaining as near and as parallel to that branch as I feel comfortable (T&T 5 over Ken's now-preferred 7.5, for instance), and not questioning anyone's sanity/tastes/understanding.
It's all good.
And just because it is so funnily co-incidental:
Word Verification-
* JoykillThis post is unable to contain its disdain for later styles of play, using the word "crap" repeatedly, along with things like malarkey, wankfests, etc. Nothing in it is really new or inspiring, and I'm surprised JM bothered to post the link.
C'mon, it's like you guys have never been on the internet. These aren't blogs or web forums for Vulcans, it's for red-blooded gamers on both sides of the fence. It only natural for people to wave their biases high from time to time.
The trick is going past the drum-beating to see the real point. And Trent's point is that the style of play typified by the OSR, while superceded by other styles of play, is no less valid. The proof being that there people who are not just enjoying it quietly, but now discuss and share it openly. On the internet this is further proven through the back and forth of criticsms.
I agree it can be too easy for people to read these posts and decry them as another 'fatbeards' vs 'modern gaming hipsters' row that tires the soul and tars the participants, but when it comes to these kinds of debates, I guess I'm just used to it. I look to see if someone is actually making a point or notbighara's post reminds me a lot of my group right now. I played with these guys in high school and we used a couple dozen systems over the years, but stuck mainly with BRP/Runequest/Stormbringer/CoC. I just recently moved back here and they wanted to get a game going again.
When I first made the suggestion we play 1e with some simplifications I made to the system I was met with a chorus of expletives, and a handful of reasons why DnD "didn't do it for (them)" anymore.
Six months down the road and they love it. I've twice tried to run one shot BRP games and was shut down quickly both times.
I think a lot of what the (gag) OSR people are missing is what I see as the fundamental difference between "Old School" and "New School" rpg fandom is: "Old School" to me is more about playstyle instead of mechanics. For example: I could run a game in BRP, Boot Hill, Pathfinder, Metamorphosis Alpha, 1e, d6, or FATE and resolution mechanics aside everyone would most likely have a good time. I see mechanics as a peripheral concern for the most part. Of course, you won't catch me playing an ICE game, but that's beside the point :)
For me the main difference between Old School and New School is the importance a group attaches to the mechanics end of things. I don't think a lot of the OSR people (in the DnD or BRP circles) really get it. They spend so much time focused on the mechanics of the system instead of play style that they miss out on a lot of what I see to be the beauty of Old School philosophy."Of course it is fundamentalism. The OD&D revival pretty closely parallels other types of fundamentalism. There are founding texts, which the fundamentalists spend all their time reading to discern the real meaning of, and what the majority of the community imagines as doctrine or settled is dismissed as innovation that was harmful to the original ideas."
I will grant that there are founding texts and that going back and re-reading them is a useful exercise, but the idea that any of us spend most of our time trying to find the Hidden Gospel of St. Gary is ludicrous. Discerning the original authorial intent can be a useful exercise, especially when that intent has been obscured by later hands in later editions. But OD&D and many of the early RPGs have so much inherent ambiguity as to demand a personal interpretation of the text. That's what interests me. I don't care whether Jamie Mal or Raggi or anyone else gets OD&D "right". What I want is to see their individual, idiosyncratic takes on the rules.
Also, I think you will find many people in the OSR who have bits and pieces of later versions that they like. And some of them continue to play 3.x or 4e. While 4e isn't my cuppa, I don't reject it as a game. What I reject is the notion of an apostolic succession in the commercially published versions of D&D. I reserve the right to pick an earlier version and do something cool with that.Those five common objections to the old school basically break down to this familiar cant:
1. "The new stuff is objectively better."
2. "The new stuff is objectively better."
3. "The game remains the same as ever."
4. "The game remains the same as ever."
5. "The new stuff is objectively better."The Old School Renaissance is radicalism, (of the root), not fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is unswerving adhearance to a single interpretation of a founding text,or texts. Radicalism is taking the same foundation and following the unexplored paths and roads not taken that are implied in the writing. This is why the OSR is a renaissance, a new begining, and not a restoration. It means to slough off the miss steps of the past and blaze a new trail. I'm Old Guard and of course, I think most of the "progess" in game design in the last twenty years has been futile wandering in the wilderness. I just don't often say such things to those of opposing view points since there's no gain in it for me.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder if being told things like we're "part of the problem" is part of the reason some new school gamers get tetchy with old school gamers. When it seems like the old-school people we're talking to would travel back and erase our way of gaming from the time-line if only they could remember where they parked their Delorean, it's hard not to get a little defensive. It doesn't pardon us from when we're snobbish jerks ourselves (believe me, I know we do the same thing just as often,) but I generally think tensions would be lower if we (both sides) didn't tell each other to "sod off" so often.
ReplyDeleteThe problems with a lot of these types of movements is the obsession of the founders with trying to keep them "underground" to try and maintain some sort of imaginary "integrity."
That "problem" seems important, though: one of the common points that binds the OSR together is dissatisfaction with the direction into which the mass market press has pulled the game.When it seems like the old-school people we're talking to would travel back and erase our way of gaming from the time-line if only they could remember where they parked their Delorean, it's hard not to get a little defensive. It doesn't pardon us from when we're snobbish jerks ourselves (believe me, I know we do the same thing just as often,) but I generally think tensions would be lower if we (both sides) didn't tell each other to "sod off" so often.
I think the tensions would still be there, they would just be hidden away under a degree of false politeness. :D
Seriously, though, the reason this sort of post is made at Knights & Knaves Alehouse is because that is its appropriate forum and it is pretty unlikely there will be a fire storm since nobody who disagrees really goes there. Of course, when comments get picked up and make it onto the blog circuit we can count on such ridiculous rhetoric as "fatbeards" and a healthy exchange of internet insults.radicalism, (of the root), not fundamentalism.
Sorry, I should have been plainer: I use fundamentalism to mean "adherence to a set of "fundamental" principles," and take it as read that whenever anyone claims to be doing this, they're asserting some set of ideas and emphases that, however old-fashioned or novel they may be, are taken to be foundational by the fundamentalist. Unfortunately both the F word and the R word have popular meanings that rather get in the way. Maybe there's wisdom in the AH explanation Foster uses.MJS... false politeness? Why should it be false? This discussion would be greatly improved by an injection of actual politeness. This article isn't it.
I'm not sure it was meant to be either, but it was presented here as if it was, so... eh.
And it's not a question of "old skool fatbeards vs. new school hipsters"---I know plenty of new school fatbeards, sadly. Fatbeard as a term's been tossed around for years and it doesn't have anything to do with the age of the game you play. It's unfortunate that there has to be this degree of diviseness. I'm not one of those "let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya" kinda gamers; some folks tastes are so divergent that it's unlikely that any game could possibly satisfy the two of them at the same time, but at the same time a little respect for the pluralistic landscape we game in, instead of casually tossing off insults and a hunkering down us vs. them mentality.
The problem that the post's author seem to miss is that he's setting out to "set the record straight" about these so-called misconceptions about the OSR movement and OSR fans... and then he goes on to validate several of them. Sometimes, a spade is a spade, and being called a spade means it's time to accept that you've been acting like a spade.Well, I cannot speak for Trent, but I do not think he is seeking "set the record straight", but simply stating his actual responses to several infuriating criticisms that have turned up from time to time and been politely refuted.
Not all politeness is feigned, but a great deal of it is, especially when you are being polite to people you do not like, such as those who use such descriptors as "fatbeards" to characterise groups of largely imagined people with which they have no truck.I consider it par for the course for passionate people to get bothered from time to time when it comes to subjects they hold dear. I think being polite is great, and I do my best when I'm making my comments, but some people just lose their cool. For me it's just a tip that I'll have to read carefully to see if there's a pearl amid the muck.
I should take this moment to disclose that I am the kind of personality who can read even the most frothing screed and not mind it as long as a good point is made. I get how those kind of posts can damage the discourse, but maybe I'm jaded after years of hobby discussion online, because it doesn't get to me too often.I like OD&D, AD&D, D&D3, D&D4 and OSR games all. I play each one for different reasons and many of them are not what he described. ( I DO play out of nostalgia, I do like the advancements of later editions).
I think if the OSR movement is going to thrive outside of our own backyards here then the the people in the movement need to remember that people will play a game (any game) for one reason really:
It's Fun.
Timbighara wrote:
[i]I don't like the emphasis on the rules that other games bring to the table. The rules should get out of the way and let the players (including the GM) drive. I like a game where you can understand the basics in about 15 minutes and be playing in less than 30.[/i]
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. I just don't know if LL (or any other old school game) does that for me. There are some games--like Fudge/Fate--that are even simpler, but more comprehensive to me.Christ, people, maybe we could just stop with the dick-waving and agree that we'll treat games we don't play the same way we treat books we don't read or movies we don't watch-- with and shrug and apathy, instead of declaring holy wars to illuminate the heathens?
Do "Risk" players and "Stratego" players have these near-gang wars over which is better? Can we just stop worrying about justifying our hobbies and just enjoy them?MJS wrote:
such as those who use such descriptors as "fatbeards"
HA! I started using fatbeard after I ran into a few guys who frequented my local game shop who the term fit perfectly. I have no shame using it since I can think of a handful of people who are just that: FATBEARDS. Call them what you will, but I think it's a fine descriptor.
In the future, OSR compatriots, please parse relevant and/or discussion worthy material from those you identify as "the opposition" when engaging in debate. Choosing to zero in on a derogatory invective that conjures the very same image you have described in an earlier post with a few dozen words _using eight letters_ (this entire series of responses are insipid) is rhetorical and argumentative.
I think if you went back and read my posts here or anywhere else, disregarding any filler jargon, you would find yourself with little to argue about.
Don't use my choice of language to falsely elevate your own position and redirect the discussion, there is no point system here to reward creative debate restructuring.I think the key problem is this post helps define the OSR as too narrow. I got onboard the OSR and have tried to run two games in the stock old school style. The biggest thing they did is remind me why I (and many like me) wandered away from that style. So I must be under #1.
However, I have not gone back to more modern styles. I have instead taken the 30ish years of gaming, learning, and generally changing and applied those to that point of departure. I'm running a RM2 campaign and planning a retro-clone game again. The difference is instead of letting a game company provide it and then tinkering I'm putting my tinkering first and viewing products as true supplements to my work, not replacements for it. Some of the best products of the OSR are exactly aimed at that idea.
By this article I'm no longer in the OSR because I've given up on a narrow play style. I'd argue I'm one of the logical conclusions of it: a chance to go back to the beginning and apply what we've learned. If all we do is go back to the beginning the OSR is doomed to fail.The "OSR" gets defined from an all inclusive movement to a very narrow subset, but I doubt we will ever see a universally agreeable definition any time soon. I do not think it is really problematic that this definition excludes you, Herb, it is just one amongst many. I would similarly be excluded from certain subset definitions of the "OSR", but as TheRedPriest happily put it in years gone by, "being Old School is about going your own way" (that is the polite version), not kowtowing to external definitions.
ReplyDelete@MJS: I agree that there are a lot of definitions and I'm probably using one divergent and influenced by my other interests. I see the OSR a lot like the tension you see in the goth community between older people who came up in a heavily DIY era compared to the emergence of things like Gothic Beauty magazine and Hot Topic *shudder* (you think 4th edition is from Hell, ask underground people about HT).
That said, my point was that celebrating articles like this only helps those not in the OSR that it's about partying like it's 1979 and not going back to first principles and trying a new path.
To use terms from above, this post casts the OSR as fundamentalism as opposed to the radicalism I think it is (should be, could be).I think it is probably fair to say that the Knights & Knaves Alehouse is about a fairly narrow definition of "Old School"; it is like your local metal club, you know what to expect when you walk in the doors, and you might find comments made there occasionally at odds with your sensibilities.
I do not really see the "celebration" of this sort of short article as particularly troubling. Sure, it may turn some folks on the peripheries off or reinforce the views of already hostile pundits that the OSR is just a "jerk circle of fat beards", but to me its just a healthy outburst that runs against the grain of usual politeness.
Sometimes you just want to say "fuck you!" and sometimes you probably should. ;)"These aren't blogs or web forums for Vulcans"
Damn straight! No matter how you play, BE PROUD OF IT!
It's not just a way to place, it's THE WAY TO PLAY.
It's THE BEST.
Somebody else disagrees and thinks their lame, watered-down crap is better, fine. Let them. Since you know they're wrong, just keep on promoting your style.
Be PROUD. Don't apologize. Don't equivocate. Don't worrry about offending touchy strangers.
Be a man and represent your style straight up, no BS and no fashionable weasel words and mandatory humility.I see the nerd wars continue, no matter the location. Way too many people have their panties in a wad, and I seriously don't know why. This is SUCH a small hobby; do you people not get that? It's an unpopular, dying, niche hobby that attracts the kind of people who inherently aren't the most outgoing or social. Edition wars are stupid, arguing over how to handle armor class is stupid, trying to define hit points in "realistic" terms is stupid. It's all stupid, and the messageboards have done nothing but breed this stupidity even more. It's far too easy to call someone out and say they're a dick on the internet. All that does is instantly alienate anyone who might have listened to you before.
I say this with sincerity: good luck attracting new players.Oh, I see. I can't use the term "fatbeard" rhetorically about a post that referred to me and people of my tastes a "wankfest"?
Yeah, I'll just ignore that absurd double standard, thanks.
"TheRedPriest happily put it in years gone by, "being Old School is about going your own way" (that is the polite version), not kowtowing to external definitions."
That's not useful in the least. Not only does it include lots of folks who are patently not Old School, but it's way too optimistic about what many Old Schoolers themselves are like.Joshua, I have to ask, because in between laughing my butt off at the amount of mudslinging going on, I saw this on your profile: ""It so happens that I'm not a huge fan of D&D per se, but that type of game is what we're talking about here.""
So why do you care? I'm curious. It seems to me you're spending an awful lot of time talking about something that you aren't "a huge fan of"?
I'm going to just enjoy the advice that most of the "fatbeards" that I respect have said: "Go play and HAVE FUN!"
(The word verify "spingstr" just cracks me up even more! Very close to sounding like the word for what seems to be very tight in this thread...)Oh, I see. I can't use the term "fatbeard" rhetorically about a post that referred to me and people of my tastes a "wankfest"?
Mate, you can say whatever you like, it just helps me know who to tune out.
That's not useful in the least. Not only does it include lots of folks who are patently not Old School, but it's way too optimistic about what many Old Schoolers themselves are like.
Thanks for the useful input.>>It's an unpopular, dying, niche hobby that attracts the kind of people who inherently aren't the most outgoing or social.
Hmmm, I see this section of the hobby as expanding and becoming more popular.
And the hobby is inherently social.
So you're just talking rubbish.
And why are you bothering to be on a role-playing blog if you have such a good attitude about role-playing, anyway?Paging E.G. Palmer!
Please visit the Swords & Wizardry message boards and introduce yourself - your comment about radicalism of the root is excellent, and your further ideas about things like designing adventures and outwitting DMs are desired.
Email me at mythmere at yahoo dot com for a password; we had to turn off new registrations because of spamming.>>And why are you bothering to be on a role-playing blog if you have such a good attitude about role-playing, anyway?
I love playing rpgs. Operative word: playing. I find it a complete waste of time to sit around complaining about how other people play their games. Anyway, the hobby hasn't grown since the early 80s, and if you factor in population growth, it is getting smaller. Rpgs themselves are social, but they are insulated; small groups who don't interact with a larger group. So really you have small groups of people all involved in the same activity, calling each other out on minutiae that is insignificant.OK, important question first. Who is the hot blonde chick in Trents KnK profile pic? That...that ain't Trent, is it?
In my fairly short time back in the gaming world (took several years off before starting up my 1st ed. world again late last year), I'm still not sure who talks the most shit - old school or new school.
I have always stuck with my lightened up version of 1st ed. AD&D, and recently got three new players who are all 3.5 die hards. Can you imagine? During character creation they layed out tons of things that you can do in 3.5, and I really could see how the game was taken away from the DM and put in the players hands.
But in a couple of games I got these guys sold on my 1st ed. They didn't much care anymore that the didn't have all these cool talents and feats and powers - my DM'ing style meshed with their role-playing style, and that is the most important thing. Will they go run their own 1st ed. games? Doubtful. But maybe if they can like my 1st ed, I can at some point at least sit down as a player and get a taste of 3rd ed or 4th ed even. It could happen.
But what I'm trying to say here is...cain't...cain't we all git along...But what I'm trying to say here is...cain't...cain't we all git along...
Brunomac, that is so unlike you, and MJS is being so excitable, I'm beginning to think this is bizarrothread. What I've learned so far about cussin on grognardia:
wankfest = just fine
fatbeard = fightin' talk.
Any other vocabulary anyone can help me with?The arguments that any version of D&D can somehow hurt another version (whether by playing it, marketing it, or referencing the one version while criticizing the other) to be wholly unconvincing. These arguments make people think about the games and the games they want to play. James has described how his attempts to fix 4e finally drove him to OD&D. This blog, in turn, is my main source of information about the latest versions (because I can't browse them at Waldenbooks) and this makes it a little more likely that I'd be willing to play them.
So new versions (or old ones, depnding on your point of view) might be silly but are still valuable. And I guess since it's the arguments that are the source of information and curiousity about other versions, I should admit that while silly, the arguments are valuable, too.
And therefore this comment, despite its logic, is worthless.
Captain Obvious>Any other vocabulary anyone can help me with<
One of my faves these days I learned on Aintitcoolnew.com chat threads.
That was my first choice for my blog title, but just wasn't D&D specific enough.
The only reason I don't like "fatbeard" is that I never had a beard. Kinda fat though.@chgowiz: Well, who said that I "care", exactly? I find the topic very interesting. RPG gaming is my main hobby, and as such I can't exactly escape the legacy of D&D. I still play it more than any other game, despite the rather uneasy peace I've had to come to about many of the D&Disms that I don't like. But mostly I just think it's very interesting. I like talking about gaming. I like discussion about gaming. I like discussion about games.
This post that this blog linked to, unfortunately, was not a good conversation starter. Not only did it not really answer any of the accusations that it purportedly set out to do with any more sophistication than "Nuh-uh!" but then it descended into ridiculous insults. It, in fact, validated many of the claims that it was supposedly trying to "set straight."
Sadly a few of the comments here have done the same. Calling someone a fatbeart means I'm a "person to ignore" while saying that something else is a wankfest is perfectly good, clear logic?
This was the whole point I wanted to make with my comment, which by pure coincidence happened to be the first one because I just happened to browse by right after the initial post was made. If the online OSR fanbase is tired of being portrayed as bitter, angry fatbeards, crying over the fact that their favorite version of the game went into decline in the late 80s and 90s, then quit acting like that's exactly what you are. Trent Foster's post was simultaneously a complaint about being stereotyped that way and a validation of the very stereotype he's complaining about.
The over-defensiveness of some of the posters here "OH NOEZ, he said something vaguely unkind about a guy who plays OD&D; we must unite against him and smite him with our Internet Fury!" syndrome is... sadly... also indicative of that same stereotype.
I'd love to talk about D&D. Of any edition (except 4e, because I don't really know much about that one) but this ain't discussion. In order to have that, you can't get super prickly whenever you hear a comment from someone who's not part of the choir already.OK, important question first. Who is the hot blonde chick in Trents KnK profile pic? That...that ain't Trent, is it?
That's Edie Sedgwick, Andy Warhol's "Superstar of 1965"
I, unsurprisingly, look pretty much like a typical gamer fatbeard (only without the beard). If you're really curious, the "SoCal Mini-Con 2" thread in the Looking For Games/Gamers board at dragonsfoot has a couple of current (2 weeks ago) pics of me "in action" with my fellow fatbeards.
As for the rest of the comments here, thanks for the nice ones, and even for the not-to-nice ones. I'm not going to apologize for making my strongly-held opinions plain (and would note that I did say right up-front that it was likely to come off as rude and insular, and that I was posting it on "safe ground" rather than in public for a reason) but I do think it's kind of a shame if a couple of terminology choices cause you to dismiss otherwise-valid points.
The fact that the current "rpg mainstream" is by-and-large made up of the very same people who first rejected and then helped kill the style of game and approach to play that I prefer and replaced them with "something else" is an uncomfortable topic that many people would rather avoid, at least in mixed company, and this isn't the first time I've gotten in trouble for expressing this opinion a little too indelicately.Calling someone a fatbeart means I'm a "person to ignore"...
To be honest, I conflated you with Tedopon in your last comment, but I do find your discourse here somewhat bemusing. Still, this is probably no place for an extensive examination of the whys and wherefores of what troubles me about some of the things that have been said here.Joshua said "He also made the completely unsupported and unsupportable assertion that non-OSR style gaming nearly killed the hobby."
I'm not so sure about that. The peak of D&D was 1981 and it was a long downhill slide from there for ALL the RPG industry. (with a couple minor blips like Vampire). It wasn't until 3.0 that RPG's experienced a real resurgence and at first 3.0 kind of read as a polished updated version of "old school" D&D - but it quickly devolved, and the industry with it.
The state of RPG business now is really quite sorry compared to what it was. Of course, we can only imagine what it would have been like had it taken a different course - the course the OSR represents.There's a basic rhetorical difference between me saying, "The way you play D&D is a crappy wankfest," and me saying, "You're a piece of shit," that some posters just don't seem to grasp. The first one is colorful statement of opinion. The second one, you should really just fuck off if you're going to be like that.
Perhaps it ties in to T. Foster's article, in that some of these anti-OSR type people have inherent problems with their reasoning on the issue.
And Herb, did you read the article? It's saying that the OSR is exactly about what you did...I think it best to stay out of this nonsense myself, even though I play Labryinth Lord every week, one of my players also plays 4E and for him, there is no conflict, so why should there be for anyone else.
Lets not fan the flames people. Were all gamers and there is a table that each of us can sit at and play. Lets all shut up and do just that.>>Will Mistretta said...
If that's all you took from the original linked post, well, your failing at reading comprehension are you own problem.
Wow, way to completely take my comments out of context. Though I do appreciate you proving that gaming nerds are humorless chodes.
I'm seriously sick of all this crap, and I'll reiterate: a lot of people have WAY too much time on their hands to bitch about stuff and should be devoting that time to actually playing.- AnonymousJuly 31, 2009 at 8:30 AM
Of course, we can only imagine what it would have been like had it taken a different course - the course the OSR represents.
...and also if video games and CCG's hadn't been invented.
I mean, come on! I've tried to stay out of this whole nonsense debate, but to claim that OSR might have "saved the hobby" is completely outrageous.
Anyway, Joshua's already made all the points I wanted to make, so I'm stepping back out of this one. And the hobby is inherently social.
Jim and Other Gents, please listen to your master Robin Laws:
I don't think I'm exactly going out on a limb when I say that we are a glorious geek tribe, and that, as a whole, we tend more to certain personality quirks than others. Further, I submit that we contain more than our fair share of people for whom the split between thought and feeling is particularly fraught. Many of us are to one degree or another uncomfortable in standard social situations. The entire roleplaying form can be seen as an alternate mode of socialization in which the boundaries of interaction are mathematically codified - and plus, you get super-powers.
It is therefore the ultimate form of entertainment for smart people who distrust emotion and have boundary issues.
Except when the games come with persuasion mechanics. They smash the boundaries, dredging up feelings you'd rather not deal with. To lose control over your PC is like losing control over yourself. Worse, the things your PC does while persuaded or controlled are highly likely to be, if not unsettling, embarrassing. They get you worked up, and steal the power you've come to the gaming table to experience.
No wonder players who feel this way avoid games with persuasion and other behavior-altering mechanics.
Short version: 'Inherently social,' among American (wargames-derived) RPG types in particular, falls far short of correct.And the hobby is inherently social.
Jim and Other Gents, please listen to your master Robin Laws:
I don't think I'm exactly going out on a limb when I say that we are a glorious geek tribe, and that, as a whole, we tend more to certain personality quirks than others. Further, I submit that we contain more than our fair share of people for whom the split between thought and feeling is particularly fraught. Many of us are to one degree or another uncomfortable in standard social situations. The entire roleplaying form can be seen as an alternate mode of socialization in which the boundaries of interaction are mathematically codified - and plus, you get super-powers.
It is therefore the ultimate form of entertainment for smart people who distrust emotion and have boundary issues.
Except when the games come with persuasion mechanics. They smash the boundaries, dredging up feelings you'd rather not deal with. To lose control over your PC is like losing control over yourself. Worse, the things your PC does while persuaded or controlled are highly likely to be, if not unsettling, embarrassing. They get you worked up, and steal the power you've come to the gaming table to experience.
No wonder players who feel this way avoid games with persuasion and other behavior-altering mechanics.
Short version: 'Inherently social,' among American (wargames-derived) RPG types in particular, falls far short of correct.The state of RPG business now is really quite sorry compared to what it was. Of course, we can only imagine what it would have been like had it taken a different course - the course the OSR represents.
I think you've had a moment of deep, deep stupidity. Anyone whose understanding of roleplaying history doesn't include the words 'videogames killed tabletop roleplaying' isn't playing with a full deck.
As long as D&D is the major outward-facing text of the RPG industry, said industry will always be identified with escapist juvenilia, power fantasies, and the worst sort of generic-fantasy codswallop. Videogames are that plus awesome moving pictures, so they win.
(I see that asmodean has pointed this out already.)I agree that staying the course would probably not have saved the business, and that computer games were a big part of its decline. A lot of people played tabletop games because they were the next best thing to what they really wanted, what computers deliver today.
I'm less sure that it's playing with a full deck to imagine that (using the Rients threefold model) "pretentious" has a better chance than "retro-stupid". Further, it would certainly not "save" the RPG to replace it with "story-telling".Saying "videogames done kilt RPGs" is a bit glib. TSR trashed itself thoroughly without much help from videogames at all.
I don't think RPGs could be a dominant long-term industry in any case, mostly because playing these games IS an inherently social activity that is strongly reliant on the creative powers of the decentralized GMs, who aren't naturally dependent on your product.
Of course a company that wants to really earn a buck would like to get around that, for example by selling lots of splatbooks and churning out a bunch of settings and selling miniatures and asking you to re-buy the whole thing in an edition change every few years and all other kinds of novelty hype.
But the one thing they can't really sell you is a good RPG experience. Board games have a similar problem, but they have much more control over the play experience. There's too much art and skill asked of a good GM.
But while RPGs are doomed by that, it's also true that you don't help yourself out by not giving two shits about what's actually fun to play at the table.


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Big data is a buzzword in a myriad of industries. In fact, analyst firm IDC recently predicted the market will grow to $16.9 billion by 2015, up from just $3.2 billion in 2010. However, the customer-centric model of financial services firms gives data unprecedented opportunities to further market research and boost customer satisfaction.
In an internet-enabled world, key learning about customers can be gained everywhere from mortgage applications to Twitter, providing financial services firms with an unprecedented amount of data. While this data offers valuable insight for financial services firms, it also has challenged the industry with new areas to monitor for feedback.
As an industry still plagued by high churn rates and customers having numerous options for where they bank, financial services companies should be looking to emerging big data tools as the answer to finding hidden consumer sentiment on a real-time basis.
The importance of big data relies on the right format for analysis. Emerging big data tools provide companies with the ability to analyze far greater quantities and types of data in a shorter span of time. For example, both structured and unstructured data sets such as RSS feeds, text messages, and e-mails can be analyzed to uncover insights. Retailers and other technology companies have already made huge strides in this area, but the doors are now open for financial services companies to improve customer segmentation, product development, and customer service.
Sentiment analysis and predictive analytics are two of the best techniques financial services companies can implement to address the retention challenges of the industry. These tools create economic value by providing the technology to tailor products to customer wants as well as understand fraud patterns, reduce credit risk, and build strategy according to customer expectation.
Capturing Customer Feedback Through Sentiment Analysis
Consumers today share their thoughts through social media channels just as often as to customer service representatives. When captured and managed, this information provides valuable and unfiltered insights into what customers are thinking.
Moving away from traditional sentiment analysis methods of survey research and focus groups, these sentiment analysis tools can give companies innovative ways to improve their products and predict consumer behavior. They also provide analysis on a real-time basis, allowing fast decision-making and reactions to any negative opinions that have appeared.
For example, in 2011, when one of the leading financial institutions in the U.S. announced its decision to charge customers a debit card fee, it formed its decision to retract the fees based on the immediate negative uproar from customers.
Sentiment analysis tools capture customer feedback from social media platforms, customer service interactions among other platforms to help banks evaluate the potential impact of their decisions. They work by tying words and unstructured communications to consumer emotions, serving as key inputs for strategic decision-making.
Sentiment analysis tools also play a large role in bank's loyalty and rewards programs. This has become extremely important across the industry as loyalty and rewards programs have become commonplace for attracting and retaining customers. By examining customer confidence indices that are driven by specific data elements, banks are able to judge the mood of the market and decide how to best reward customers.
While these technologies are still maturing, many are advanced enough to drive real value by allowing financial services companies to understand customer likes, dislikes and preferences for product and service improvements, and help them gain a competitive advantage in a crowded market.
Using Predictive Analytics to Capitalize on Customer Insights
One trend infiltrating this industry is customer demand for simple, fast and inexpensive means to conduct both financial and purchasing transactions. However, this becomes a challenge as consumer needs are becoming more diverse and unpredictable.
Predictive analytic techniques are a great way to mine large amounts of historical data to determine the likely occurrence of events in the future. By querying, visualizing and reporting these datasets, financial services companies can generate actionable insight—illuminating behavior and transactional patterns—to move forward with decisions on product and service strategies.
These tools can also help banks build models based on customer spending behavior and product usage to pinpoint which products and services customers find most useful and what they can deliver more effectively. Such a model can help companies increase their share of wallet, garner loyalty, and most importantly, increase profitability.
Financial services companies can also find value in predictive analytics ability to help in fraud detection. This increase in data allows for a more complete profile of customers, helping banks and brokers detect fraud earlier than existing approaches.
"Predictive Scorecards", which help determine the likelihood of customers defaulting on payments, are also enabled by these emerging analytics tools, helping banks to mitigate the risk they take on.
Integrating Big Data in Your Operations
Sentiment analysis and predictive analytics are two of the biggest big data tools that are proving their worth in the industry. The beauty of these solutions comes from their ability to be easily integrated into the operating model in a manageable way. The biggest challenge the industry has faced has been in integrating big data in a strategic way and that benefits their business and impacts the bottom line.
By starting small, growing organically and striking the right balance between gaining the desired insight and becoming overloaded with data, financial services firms will truly recognize the gains they can make in customer satisfaction, retention and expansion, boosting profitability and finding the economic value.
Karthik Krishnamurthy is the Vice President of Enterprise Information Management for Cognizant


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Epic. Yes, that word may be overused by me and many people. But, that's the only word to sum up Rouge Roubaix. What an experience! My teammate Lennie and I drove down from Birmingham, Alabama to Zachary, Louisiana – the nearest town to the start in St Francisville with hotel rooms still available – but still about 25 minutes from the start. The Best Western we stayed at was awesome – with a great breakfast the next morning.
We ate a great breakfast and then drove over to St Francisville. My day was already made within 2 seconds of walking into the registration area as I immediately noticed a 3 foot tall printout of the TopoCreator map I had made for the race. I was surprised and elated to see the organizers had found and printed the map for everyone to see!!! Check out this picture I took of it after the race –
By the time we finished getting everything ready and rolled to the start line, the official was giving last minute instructions. Two minutes later we were off for a somewhat agonizing 23+ miles of "scrum" — fighting for position and to maintain position near the front of the pack before the first dirt road. An early break with three riders rolled off the front and established a 5 minute lead as the pack was content to roll along at a very leisurely pace. None of the big players (as far as I could tell) were up the road, and a couple big teams were not represented in the break — so I knew that it was doomed. Still, when you hear of a 5 minute lead, it's hard to imagine bringing that back!
I had pre-programmed the entire route into my Garmin – so it was giving me turn-by-turn directions. I knew exactly how many miles we had left until the 1st dirt/gravel road. When we got within a couple miles of the turn onto the dirt road, the pace really picked up as did the scrum (battle for position). A small crowd was gathered at that first turn and we dove into it and blazed ahead. It was exactly what I expected for about the first 15 seconds. Then I realized that there were two definite "lines" that you needed to take either side of the center. It wasn't what I was expecting, but I thought "ok, no problem" just get into the line and don't lose the wheel in front of you." Well, that lasted for about another 15 seconds before we hit the first really loose stretch of gravel/sand/rocks and my bike started to fish tail like crazy. It was hard to ride in a straight line as your wheel would slide out from under you and push you off of the two main "lines". If you strayed too far then you got into really loose sand and could fall or scrub all kinds of speed. I made it about a mile holding on for dear life to the wheel in front of me with my heartrate pegged in the 190s when I moved a little too far left and hit a deep section of gravel. My wheel slid out and I had to stop pedaling and basically coast to a near-stop to keep from falling. I got started again, but I had gotten passed by a lot of people and lost not only my momentum but pretty much all of my nerve. I was much more tentative and riders continued to pass me and pull away.
Eventually a small group of riders caught up to me, and I decided that I was going to do everything I could do to stay with that group even if it meant falling and breaking something. I struggled to keep up mostly on the flatter sections as they tended to have pockets of sand/gravel, and I would fishtail losing momentum and have to push it really hard to either catch back up or keep from falling off the back of the group. My Garmin beeped at me two times to let me know that we were coming up on a turn. Each time I thought, "Surely, this must be the end of the first dirt section". But instead, we simply turned from one dirt road onto another one. It was the most agonizing 8 miles I have ever ridden. Several times I thought I had reached the end of my limit and was going to get dropped, but each time I was able to either rest for just a couple seconds or push myself just that little bit harder to keep from losing the wheel. I also realized that I was pushing too small a gear and that you could make it through the sandy sections easier if you were pushing a big gear and reducing the number of pedal strokes which impart a sideways force. By the end of that section, I had ridden 25 minutes with an average heartrate of 186. Keep in mind that my LT heartrate is only 180, and my max is 197!!!
Finally, my Garmin beeped for a third time, and we could see a group of people gathered up ahead so I figured surely it was the feed zone at the end of the Louisiana "pavé" — and sure enough, it was! I grabbed a neutral water and drained it as we started to roll on the pavement. There really was no chance to recover as we drilled it to try to catch up with the main group. At this point, I thought for sure that there was no hope of catching the group, but I also thought there's nothing to lose – so I pulled 100% as several riders also were just completely burying it with every pull. Within 10 minutes, we caught sight of the peloton at least a mile up the road. This motivated us even more and we pushed even harder. A few minutes later we could see that they were spread out across the road not going very fast so we knew that we were going to be able to catch them. We made it and still had about 20 miles to rest and recover before the next dirt section.
There were a few attacks early in this long stretch of the race, but they were brought back and the pace settled down into a fairly steady pace. It was still pretty slow, but faster than the long 23 mile rollout before the first gravel section with Hotel San Jose setting the pace. They weren't happy that nobody else was helping them – so with less than 10 miles left to go to the second gravel section. They began attacking the group. This led to a number of accelerations that were fairly quick brought back, but eventually they got a rider away. I bridged across to a small chase group with two more Hotel San Jose riders and an Aerocat rider (I think it was Emile Abraham). Emile put in a hard pull, then I pulled through, and then the Hotel San Jose rider barely pulled through. Even though we had a good gap on the field at this point (maybe 10 seconds?), they didn't want to do anything to help bring the small group of us up to their one rider. So with two of them not working, our chase was doomed and the pack caught up to us a couple minutes later.
Fortunately, I had a chance to rest as I was expecting a huge counter attack when we were caught – but it didn't happen. We had closed the distance enough to the lone rider, and we were now only a few miles away from the next section of Louisiana pavé. The counter attack didn't materialize, but our pace was noticeably quicker as we approached the dirt. My Garmin counted down the miles and beeped at me with 0.2 miles left to the turn. We made the sharp turn and flew up the road. This section was only three miles long, and the first half mile alternated between pavement, dirt, gravel, potholes, and even a few mud puddles. During this section, Mike Olheiser (Warp9/Moonstar) flatted and pulled off to the side. I found out later that his teammate, Travis Sherman, saw it happen and traded wheels to get Mike back into the race as quickly as possible. This all happened about a quarter mile before the base of the day's longest climb – a 0.83 mile climb with an average grade of 6.4% and a maximum pitch of 10.5% for a quarter mile. The hill was sandy and rocky, but rideable at the bottom. Mike Olheiser caught up to me and passed me, and I decided that I was going to hang onto his wheel for as long as I could up the climb. Well, that lasted about a quarter mile when we made it to a deep sand pit and Mike was able to power right through but I got tangled up with another rider and had to stop. The road was too steep and the gravel too loose to get started again. So I ran and pushed the next tenth of a mile up the hill before there was a hard packed section where you could remount your bike and continue up the hill. By the top of the hill, the race was completely shattered with riders everywhere and small groups forming across the rest of the gravel section. This one wasn't too long so by the end I was in a group of about 6-8 riders. We pushed the pace very hard and picked up riders coming off of groups ahead of us. Knowing the final outcome, I now realize that we must have been the fourth group on the road. In my head, though, I was thinking that we were either the second or third group. So I was very, very happy with my position after this gravel section compared to my position after the first gravel section.
We pushed really hard and got a good rotation going with a long gradual downhill section for the next 10 miles before the last section of pavé – but we never caught sight of any groups in front of us – only a few riders who had gotten dropped from the group(s) ahead. By the time we reached the last section, there was maybe 12-15 of us in our group. This last section of pavé was by far the most fun. It was basically a path through a national or state forest area with lots of banked corners that you could fly through even on the dirt/gravel. The road was constantly turning and a good chunk of it after the first couple miles was downhill. Midway through this section, Emile Abraham caught up to us by himself and started to blow right by our group – but that helped rally us and we notched it up a bit to keep up with Emile through the rest of the forest. Even after we made it back onto paved roads, the roads were still constantly turning with lots of sharp uphills and downhills. Emile continued to drive the pace along with a strong Warp 9 rider and two Myogenesis riders. I helped pull, but I was also starting to conserve energy thinking that we weren't going to catch any other groups and that I needed to have something left for the sprint within our group. Also, my Garmin was faithfully ticking off the miles left in the race – 10 miles, 9 miles, 6 miles … and with about 6 miles to go as we rounded a corner, I see another Aerocat rider coming back to our group. It was Andy Crater. He and his teammate, Emile, who was in our group ratcheted up the pace again driving really hard. And for about 3 miles I couldn't imagine why they were pushing the pace so hard. Then it dawned on me, that Andy's group must have just been up the road – but out of sight because of all the turns! Sure enough, with about 2 miles left in the race, we caught their group of 6 riders (including 3 Hotel San Jose riders).
But shortly before we caught that group, the craziest, coolest, scariest thing of the race happened. We were approaching an intersection and I saw a car entering the intersection ahead of us. We were still about a quarter mile away so I thought "no big deal, the car will be long gone ahead of us by the time we get there". Well, about a minute later we see the car stopped in the middle of our lane. I had no idea why so as I am sitting in third wheel in the rotation, I yell "go around". So we fly around the car, around a corner and immediately see why the car was stopped. There was a 75meter long one-lane spillway bridge around the corner and a rather large pick-up truck already on it crossing the bridge. We had already committed to going onto the bridge, as we were going 25-30mph around the car. The two guys in front of me decided there was enough room so they motored ahead and so did I but at the last second I realized that with the truck's mirror sticking out you had to pull your arm in to keep from hitting it! So right after I did that, I cringed waiting to hear the sound of one of the riders behind me plowing into the mirror, then over the side of the spillway into the river and eaten by alligators – but it didn't happen. We all made it safely through and with that bit of adrenaline pumping through us we quickly closed the rest of the gap to the small group of riders in front of us.
At that point, the pace plummeted as the cat and mouse games immediately began. By this point our group had over 20 riders in it – and with one mile to go, Andy Crater rolled off the front of our group with a Myogenesis rider. There was no immediate chase, but we caught them with 1k to go and there was a bit of a lull before the pace went up again and we flew through the last series of 90 degree corners taking you into the 500 meter to go hill. I was sitting in fourth wheel, but got swarmed going into the final corner. I came out of the corner in 8th or 9th position going into the base of the hill. You could tell the 101 miles had worn on everyone though, as I started picking off riders all the way up the hill — even as I was cramping myself. We must have been the most awkward-looking group of riders sprinting. At the top, I came across the line in 5th place for our group which later turned out to be 18th overall. Pat Allison finished just ahead of me with Eric Murphy just behind me. Whew, what an awesome, fun, epic race. Tired, exhausted, but already looking forward to next year.
My teammates Mike and Lennie did well to finish the race – as there were many, many strong riders that weren't able to do that. Both of them stayed upright, pushed it hard, and persevered to the finish. Good job, guys!
Lastly, here's my annotated heartrate data.
2010 March 7 – Rouge Roubaix heartrate data
- Easy aerobically, but stressful fighting for position and or wondering if I would be able to move up to the front by the first pavé section
- The first turn, several short-lived attacks. Eventually a group of three gets away without key teams represented
- The first pavé – heartrate jumps from 155 to 194 in less than a quarter mile
- The end of the first pavé – average heartrate of 186 for the 8 mile section
- Chasing and working hard to catch back on
- Attacks in the middle of the long road between the 1st and 2nd pavé sections
- The start of the second pavé section
- The start of the third pavé section
- Responding to an attack on a hill
- The final sprint


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Did you see Jimi Hendrix in concert? Did you meet Jimi Hendrix or have the opportunity to interview him or have some other unique, first-person encounter with Jimi Hendrix? If so, Experience Hendrix wants to hear from you.
Jimi Hendrix
Did you see Jimi Hendrix in concert? Did you meet Jimi Hendrix or have the opportunity to interview him or have some other unique, first-person encounter with Jimi Hendrix? If so, Experience Hendrix wants to hear from you.
London's Daily Telegraph conducts a photo shoot with Hendrix at his Brook Street flat. Elsewhere, Mitch Mitchell was interviewed for Issue 19 of Oz .
Valerie Mabbs of Record Mirror interviews Hendrix at his Brook Street apartment for the March 15th issue.
John Grant interviews Hendrix for the March 15th issue of New Musical Express. That evening Hendrix joins Billy Preston during a jam session at The Speakeasy.
Hendrix visits Noel Redding at Olympic Studios during a recording session for Fat Mattress. Later that evening, Jimi Hendrix travels to Ronnie Scott's to enjoy an evening of performances by Roland Kirk & His Quartet.
Hendrix returns to Ronnie Scott's Club to watch another night of performances by Roland Kirk. It has been reported but not confirmed that Hendrix joined Kirk on stage for an extended jam session.
Jimi Hendrix once again reportedly joins Roland Kirk for a jam session at Ronnie Scott's Club. Afterwards, Kirk visits Hendrix's Brook Street flat.
Jane de Mendelssohn interviews Jimi Hendrix at his Brook Street flat for the March 28 issue of International Times.
Brook Street interview Interviews Jane de Mendelssohn Jimi Hendrix
Alan Smith of New Musical Express interviews the Experience at Hendrix's Brook Street flat. The interview appears in the April 19 issue of the paper. The Experience would also grant an interview to Ray Coleman for the March 22 issue of Disc & Music.
Hendrix flies from London's Heathrow International Airport to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. Back in New York, Hendrix checks into the Pierre Hotel on 5th Avenue.
Record Plant New York, N.Y. Star Spangled Banner Hey Gypsy Boy Jimi Hendrix records "Star Spangled Banner" and "Gypsy Boy" at the Record Plant. "Star Spangled Banner" was included as part of the Jimi Hendrix Experience box set.
Hey Gypsy Boy new york Record Plant Recording Star Spangled Banner
Buddah Records in England release "Rock'n'Roll Band" backed with "Yes I Need Someone," the debut single by Eire Apparent.
The March 22 edition of Billboard magazine's "International News Reports" headlines Hendrix Wins Paris Fest's Pop Prize. The headline refers to Hendrix Billboard's 1968 Artist of the Year as the recipient of the Popular Music Prize in the 1969 Academie Charles Cros Awards at the Festival du Son held at the Palais d'Orsay in Paris, France. The Jimi Hendrix Experience is named both the #2 Duo & Group and #2 Artist overall in Billboard's March 22, Campus Attractions supplement. The honor marks The Experience as being the second best selling group based on reports from college book and record stores throughout the United States between March 1968 and February 1969. On both charts, The Experience were second only to Simon & Garfunkel.
Academie Charles Cros Awards Billboard magazine international News Reports Paris Fest Stories
Record Plant New York, N.Y. Jam With John McLaughlin Jam With Jim McCarty John McLaughlin, Jim McCarty, Buddy Miles, and Dave Holland join Jimi Hendrix at the Record Plant.
Band Buddy Miles Jim McCarty John McLaughlin new york Record Plant


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When looking for Promotional Backpacks to imprint with your logo, think like the ones who will be receiving your promo gifts. Specifically, think about how your Backpack will be used by the receiver, and the demographic of your typical receiver.
Some backpacks are designed for a specific purpose. For instance, one made for school is generally designed with a large main compartment for textbooks. They usually also feature one or more smaller pockets for items like pens and pencils, calculators and other school-related items.
On the other hand, those that are designed specifically for travel may feature larger main compartments or multiple main compartments. They sometimes have fewer small pockets than those made for taking to school. They also tend to be larger, though small ones for travel are also widely available.
Choose the type of back pack that your customers will be more likely to use. For example, if you're in the business of selling sporting goods, your customers are probably more likely to use one that's made for traveling, hiking or camping.
On the other hand, if you're more apt to deal with students in your type of business, school-type Promotional Back Packs will make more effective promos. In fact, they make wonderful back-to-school advertising gifts during the months prior to September.
Fortunately, Art Promos promotional products carries dozens of styles, types, designs and colors when it comes to Imprinted Backpacks. No matter what your business, no matter what your needs, you're sure to find one that suits your advertising needs perfectly. Plus, when you choose the ideal back pack, your advertising is sure to be seen by more potential customers!


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Learn about how to login, bill payment options, how to set up Auto Pay, how to cancel account and other helpful tools for your Borio Chiropractic Health Cent account.
You can login to Borio Chiropractic Health Cent online account by visiting this link and access all the features. Make sure you have an account already with them. Launch your Web browser and navigate to Borio Chiropractic Health Cent's Login page (see below).
If you do not have an account, create an account. You will need to enter your email id, phone number and some personal data to verify your information.
It offers online bill payment facility to all its users and provides several different methods to pay bills. You can pay your bill online at Borio Chiropractic Health Cent's website, mail your payment to the processing center, or pay your bill in person at any authorized location. It also provides you with the option to set up automatic bill payments online and make alternative payment arrangements. You can also cancel account and contact customer support online.
Here's the info you need to make your payment in any way you choose:
By mail: You can mail your check to 8212 Brewerton Rdcicero, Ny 13039. Before sending the payment you should call the customer service number 315-699-1441 for reconfirmation.
By phone: Use the automated system to make a payment. The phone number is 315-699-1441.
In Person: Pay at any of the nationwide customer service centers.
Average Waiting time: 10 minutes.
Below you can find best ways to contact Borio Chiropractic Health Cent support according to 19921 billpaymentonline users.
Phone Numbers |
Addresses |
Monday | 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM |
Tuesday | 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM |
Wednesday | 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM |
Thursday | 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM |
Friday | 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM |
Saturday | 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM |
Sunday | Closed |
Name | Borio Chiropractic Health Cent |
How can I login into my account?
You can login into your account visit this link
Does it offer online bill payment facility?
Yes, it offers online bill payment facility. Credit Cards, Debit Cards and internet banking payment are accepted.
Where is the headquarters located at?
The headquarters of the company is located at: 8212 Brewerton Rdcicero, Ny 13039
How can I contact customer support in case of any issues?
You can contact them by calling on following numbers:
Does it have any social media page?
Yes, the company has profile(s) on :


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Regular price Rs. 900.00 Sale
This nose ring is only for a left piercing.
92.5% silver
diameter: 1.5 cms approx
As our products are handmade the sizes can differ slightly.
The product will be delivered in 10 working days.
To request faster delivery, please get in touch with us at email@example.com before placing the order.
Silver tarnishes with time. To preserve the finish of the product, store it in plastic pouches that are included in the packaging.
All our products are handmade and there could be slight variations in the form, size or finish of the product. This is the very mark of the human touch in our jewelry and the imperfections are not to be deemed as a defect.


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Boeing engineers use spuds to improve in-air Wi-Fi
If the wireless Internet connection during your holiday flight seems more reliable than it used to, you could have the humble potato to thank.
While major airlines offer in-flight Wi-Fi on many flights, the signal strength can be spotty. Airlines and aircraft makers have been striving to improve this with the growing use of wireless devices and the number of people who don't want to be disconnected, even 35,000 feet (10,700 meters) up.
Engineers at Chicago-based Boeing Co. used sacks of potatoes as stand-ins for passengers as they worked to eliminate weak spots in in-flight wireless signals. They needed full planes to get accurate results during signal testing, but they couldn't ask people to sit motionless for days while data was gathered.
"That's where potatoes come into the picture," Boeing spokesman Adam Tischler said.
It turns out that potatoes—because of their water content and chemistry—absorb and reflect radio wave signals much the same way as the human body does, making them suitable substitutes for airline passengers.
"It's a testament to the ingenuity of these engineers. They didn't go in with potatoes as the plan," Tischler said.
Recapping the serendipitous path that led to better onboard wireless, Tischler said a member of the research team stumbled across an article in the Journal of Food Science describing research in which 15 vegetables and fruits were evaluated for their dielectric properties, or the way they transmit electric force without conduction.
Its conclusions led the Boeing researchers to wonder if potatoes might serve just as well as humans during their own signal testing. Despite some skepticism, they ended up buying 20,000 pounds (9,000 kilograms) of them.
Video and photos of the work, which started in 2006, show a decommissioned airplane loaded with row upon row of potato sacks that look like large, lumpy passengers. The sacks sit eerily still in the seats as the engineers collect data on the strength of wireless signals in various spots.
The Boeing engineers added some complicated statistical analysis and the result was a proprietary system for fine tuning Internet signals so they would be strong and reliable wherever a laptop was used on a plane.
Boeing says the system also ensures Wi-Fi signals won't interfere with the plane's sensitive navigation and communications equipment.
"From a safety standpoint, you want to know what the peak signals are, what's the strongest signal one of our communications and navigation systems might see from a laptop or 150 laptops or 350 laptops," Boeing engineer Dennis Lewis explains in a video.
In a nod to the humor in using a tuber to solve a high-tech problem, researchers dubbed the project Synthetic Personnel Using Dialectic Substitution, or SPUDS.
The company says better Wi-Fi signals can be found already on three Boeing aircraft models flown by major airlines: 777, 747-8 and the 787 Dreamliner.
Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.