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October 11, 2010
Running EURO-DNA-CALC on GenomesUnzipped
31 comments:
On my end, I am not aware of any Jewish Ashkenazi background. I'd be curious to figure out where this signal is coming from and whether it is spurious or not.
Vincent Plagnol - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:03:00 am
- Daniel said...
Nice work!
The results fit with expectations overall (Dan is indeed Ashkenazi Jewish, and Luke has some Eastern European ancestry). It will be interesting to see what Vincent and Don make of their results - and we'll also be able to compare them to our PCA clustering shortly (still finalising our reference data-set). - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:05:00 am
- Unknown said...
100% correct in my case. To the best of my knowledge both my maternal and paternal family lines are of Ashkenazi Jewish descent.
- Dan - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:19:00 am
- Dienekes said...
On my end, I am not aware of any Jewish Ashkenazi background. I'd be curious to figure out where this signal is coming from and whether it is spurious or not.
I've found out from people that have communicated to me their results that Jews invariably score high on the AJ component of this test (100% scores like Dan's are not uncommon), but low AJ scores on non-Jews also occur.
It could be anything from other Jewish-like ancestry not represented in the test (e.g., some Arabs get high AJ scores), or cryptic ancestry not known to the person, or the limitations of the test itself (as there are 192 SNPs in common between the 23andMe results and the Price et al. panel it is using). - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:01:00 pm
- Marnie said...
FYI: Pickrell is a Welsh/Scottish name. Barrett is common in Scotland. McArthur originates in either Scotland or Ireland.
Wright, Morley, Conrad, Anderson and Fisher are not Scottish names. - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:40:00 pm
- Joe Pickrell said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:18:00 pm
- Unknown said...
There's another test:
For those who wish to double-check, they can participate in Polako's BGA:
There already is one Greek participant Dienekes...
Incidentally, a control test for Euro-DNA-Calc is the Ancestry Finder tool in 23andme; if one has up to a 45% Euro DNA Calc score, but 0-1% Ashkenazi Jewish on Ancestry Finder then Euro DNA Calc indicates shared Mediterranean ancestry, not recent Jewish ancestry. - Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:15:00 pm
- Spy said...
Blogger just munched what I had written (Grrr).
Might EDC have a hard time distinguishing between minority components, especially adjacent ones?
For example, Luke's 61% has high confidence, but his 39% is only good as a combined AJ-SE figure.
Contrariwise, a Jew with 25%NW ancestry may well be 16%SE and 9%NW. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:06:00 am
- Dienekes said...
I'll post tomorrow or the day after an analysis of Near Eastern populations with respect to Europeans and Africans which identifies a specific cluster centered on Arabs.
As recent studies on Jews have shown shared autosomal ancestry between Jews and Arabs, Jews ought to register -in principle- a relatively high value in that "Arab cluster", while the Tuscans register only 0.3% of it.
It will be interesting to see what DBV001 and VXP001 score in that component, and I'm sure I'll get around to checking that. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:54:00 am
How accurate is EURO-DNA-CALC? It did pick out the sole Ashkenazim member of that genomesunzipped group.
I used Dienekes program some while ago and it came out 87% SE European with 8% NW European and 5% Ashkenazim. The latter figures did intersect zero. I should be mostly SE European being Maltese going back many hundreds of years with no other ancestry. However, other tests, McDonald's for instance, show a significant Middle Eastern score similar to that found in South Italians. I am just wondering why this Middle Eastern score was not picked up by Dienekes program as Ashkenazi. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 4:19:00 am
- Marnie said...
Your August comment on the Myres paper:
"It is interesting to see where R-M269(xL23) is concentrated. In Europe I see cases in Germany, Switzerland, Slovenia, Poland, Hungary, Russia, the Ukraine."
My comment [blog comments, Myres paper, August]:
"Yes, and Western Europe, especially Scotland and Ireland."
Is it possible that the "Ashkenazi" that Euro-DNA-Calc is picking up is instead more broadly the autosomal signature that accompanies populations with an elevated level of yDNA R-M269(xL23) or R-M269(xM412)?
You've mentioned before that there is a strong correlation between J2 and R1b. Maybe that's not any R1b, but a specific type of R1b, such as R-M269(xL23) or R-M269(xM412).
There are three other things that lead me in this direction:
1. Gioiello, who says he is not Jewish, and doesn't know of any Jewish ancestors, is M269(xL23), (R1b1b2a),
2. According to the Myres paper, there is 27% frequency of L23(xM412) in the Upper Rhone Valley.
3. There is the possibility that the name Plagnol or Planiol originates in the Auvergne, which, if I remember correctly, has an elevated level of R-M269(xM412). Vincent, perhaps you could help us here?
Thanks for your consideration. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:00:00 am
- Dienekes said...
You've mentioned before that there is a strong correlation between J2 and R1b. Maybe that's not any R1b, but a specific type of R1b, such as R-M269(xL23) or R-M269(xM412).
A local correlation in the Balkans, not a global correlation. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:51:00 am
- Fanty said...
Me in 3 different tests for comparation:
In EURO CALC:
Northwest European likelyhood: 28%
Southeast European likelyhood: 72%
In FTDNA Population Finder BETA:
Western European (reference Populations: Orcadians, French, French Basque, Spanish): 85%
European (unable to pick a group): 15%
In Polakos Project with latest set up:
(these are components as seen in admixture various calculations)
East-Northeast Component: 43.4%
West-Northwest Component: 31.6%
Mediteranean Component: 20.3%
Caucasus/Anatolian Component: 4%
Middle Eastern Component: 0.7%
North-West-African Component: 0%
All 3 tests used the same Raw Data File. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:03:00 pm
- Gioiello said...
Marnie, not only I have a paper trail that links me to an ancestor of mine of the beginning of the 14th century (Signorino del Badia) who lived in Castelfiorentino near Florence, but I am also K1a1b1, the ancestor of the most part of Ashkenazi Jews who are K1a1b1a, but my mutation 9932A is probably typically Italian from very ancient times. Also a relative of mine, my cousin's husband Fabrizio Federighi, tested by me at SMGF, is R1b1b2* (L23-), very close to many Near Eastern haplotypes, and maternally R0a, but with mutations we find only in Tuscany. I am not able to explain my 23% and 19% of Ashkenazi ancestry by 23andMe and deCODEme. In fact there isn't a recent relatedness with Jews: on Relative Finder at 23andME I have a few persons linked to me, and all of European (mostly from the British Isles) descent, then the link with Jews isn't recent.
I permit not agreeing with Dienekes about the Balkan origin of R-L23 and R-M412/L51: I think having demonstrated ad abundantiam that their origin is in Italy. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:55:00 pm
- Dienekes said...
Me in 3 different tests for comparation:
In EURO CALC:
FF and EURO-DNA-CALC have only 63 SNPs in common (vs. 192 for 23andMe) so I am highly skeptical of it. I only added it because people were asking me to. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:58:00 pm
- Marnie said...
"A local correlation in the Balkans, not a global correlation."
Yes, of course. But there is likely a correlation between populations with R-M269(xL23) or R-M269(xM412) and Balkan R1b.
Perhaps the strongest correlations are to be found in the Haute Rhone and the Auvergne, as the Myres paper would indicate.
Thanks, Gioiello, for further information.
And thanks, Dienekes, for these Euro DNA Calc runs and to the genomesupzipped team. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 6:33:00 pm
- pconroy said...
The name Barrett is Irish, see more here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=Go.&Surname=Barrett - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:35:00 pm
- pconroy said...
The name McArthur is Scottish:
Though of Gaelic descent, from the Celtic Scotti. - Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:15:00 pm
- Marnie said...
Thanks, pconroy, for checking on "Barrett". So more likely Irish, then English, then Scottish. Thanks for checking.
A variant of the name, Baret, appears on the 1296 Ragman Roll, an early definitive document of Scottish landowners. The name is recorded in county Pebbles (now county Tweedale.)
It's common to see multiple spelling variants for old Scottish names.
Whatever its ancient distribution, it's clear that today the name is most common in Ireland.
Again, thank you for looking this up. - Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:58:00 am
- Unknown said...
I ran these people through my "locate on the map" program, and I get the folloeing results:
All are British except:
DBV: Jewish (or Greek, but probably Jewish).
JKP: SwissBavarian/Austrian
JXA: Low Countries or western German.
VXP: French.
However, the bottom three could also be some mix which averages out at that spot.
Doug McDonald - Thursday, October 14, 2010 4:28:00 am
- Unknown said...
@Doug: Could you elaborate on your "locate on the map" program? I (JXA) am Belgian...
- Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:13:00 pm
- Marnie said...
Do you know how many SNPs 23andMe and deCODEme used to get your results? - Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:15:00 pm
- Unknown said...
My "spot on the map" does a PCA
on a person (using 70 comparison
populations) and then calculates the average value of the first 9
principal components of each of the 70 populations. It then least squares fits the test person to those 70 averages. It usually finds
many acceptable fit combos. It then calculates the latitude and longitude of the weighted averages of the comparison population that make up the best
few (2 to 20) fits to the test person.
That's the short, elegant, description. The long description is like the inside of a sausage factory.
Doug - Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:51:00 pm
- Marnie said...
Conrad is originally a German or perhaps Czech name.
I wasn't originally sure about Aerts name, but when you look at his picture, you can be pretty sure that he is German or from the Low Countries.
Joe Pickrell seems to be the stand out. His name (Welsh or Scottish) doesn't match your analysis. It would be interesting to know why.
I have to say that until these tests can be definitive, I'm not compelled to entirely believe them.
If I were to take such a test, I'd probably be told something that is misleading, or something that I already know. The margin of error isn't narrow enough to tell me something new, such as when my ancestors reached the British Isles or clearly indicate how much Norse, Irish, English and Scottish I have in me. - Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:32:00 pm
- bear of little brain said...
ilana fisher sounds like a very jewish name to me - but scored zero in the ashkenazi jewish column.
- Friday, October 15, 2010 12:37:00 am
- Fanty said...
"Conrad is originally a German or perhaps Czech name"
Conrad is Germanic.At least it originates in the Germanic words
Kuoni = keen
rat = advisor
Distribution of the name in Germany:
Distribution of the name in France:
http://familleunie.fr.cartes.s3.amazonaws.com/conrad_relative.png - Friday, October 15, 2010 4:28:00 am
- Gioiello said...
Marnie writes:"Gioiello:Do you know how many SNPs 23andMe and deCODEme used to get your results?"
I remember that Warwick ran my raw data on the Dienekes' Calculator (we were at the end of 2008), then I think Dienekes can replay to you better than me. - Friday, October 15, 2010 7:20:00 am
- Marnie said...
I just checked the 23andme website. They say they return 550K SNPs.
Dienekes used 275K SNPs to resolve Dan Vorhaus' Ashkenazi background and Vincent Plagnol's Western European background.
I suspect that 23andme wasn't returning 550K SNP's in 2008.
Have you contacted 23andme? Why don't you ask them to redo your test with the most updated number of SNPs? And of course they should do it for free.
And after running with the latest number of SNPs, if there is still an error, 23andme should be made aware of it and should be telling people with this particular genetic background that there may be an error in evaluating the degree of their Ashkenazi ancestry.
Beyond that, it may take quite specific SNPs to resolve your particular Italian ancestry from someone with an Ashkenazi background. It may not even be possible. I have friend who is of an ancient Jewish Slovenian family. He has red hair and freckles and looks very Western European.
Again, thanks Gioiello, for telling us your story. - Friday, October 15, 2010 5:21:00 pm
- Gioiello said...
Marnie, certainly my 23andMe has 550k SNPs. I had also V3 for my Y (see "Adriano Squecco's spreadsheet"). Unfortunately I lost my Office on my PC by a virus and a can't now load my raw data, but if Dienekes wants I can give him my username and password both for 23andME and deCODEme and he could run again my results.
Anyway my thought has always been that are Jews (above all Ashkenazim and Sephardim)to be Italian (or European) and not the contrary. - Friday, October 15, 2010 6:25:00 pm
- Marnie said...
You can probably take your PC to an anti-virus and spy-ware shop and get them to clean up your PC. That costs about $100 here in the Bay area. I am not sure how much it costs in Italy.
I don't want to get in the way of your idea about an Italian refugium for R-M269(xL23). Groups like Myres et. al. are looking at this, I am sure.
To look at that clearly, teams will have to look across multiple geographically located samples.
In the meantime, it is up to you if you want to re-examine your data. It would be helpful for everyone to know if your genetic ancestry can be resolved into an identifiable Northern Italian signature.
Have a nice weekend. - Saturday, October 16, 2010 12:53:00 am
- Gioiello said...
Marnie, yesterday I sent my access keys to 23andMe and deCODEme to Dienekes. I don't know if he wants to run my data again. I am open to the truth and every result.
- Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:17:00 am


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BBC's Top 20 F1 drivers ever (list)
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- 10th April 2012, 18:36 at 6:36 pm #131223S.J.MParticipant
So the BBC are running a list of their Greatest Drivers of All Time. The list is of 20 drivers which the BBC thinks is best, and I thought it might be fun to follow it and discuss each of the entrants and whether we agree or not. It seems that they are releasing a driver per Race, so plenty of time to read the articles & videos they have (all done by Murray Walker)
Note of caution, and probably hot potato is 1 particular line which has me a tad worried….
The BBC list does not pretend to be a definitive all-time top 20 – all such things are in any case subjective, given the difficulty of comparing drivers from different eras.
But what it does is highlight just what a golden age F1 is going through at the moment. Four of the 20 drivers on the list are racing in 2012. Two other current drivers only just missed out, being ranked in 22nd and 23rd places overall when the lists were combined.
Say what?! 4 drivers? Really? Dont get me wrong, I think Alonso & Schumacher deserve it so far, but who the other 2 could be I have no idea.
Anyway, On with the lists thus far!
Number 17 – Emerson Fittipaldi
No issues with Rindt on the list, none what-so-ever. Criminally forgotten by the BBC in 2010 when they could have made a good feature on the 40th anniversary of his death at Monza (being the only Posthumous WDC and all) but fast, really fast. Before there was Villeneuve & Peterson, there was Rindt.
Suprised Hills at #19 really, the only holder of the Triple Crown, 5 times Monaco GP winner & double WDC. I'd have had him a lot higher up.
Which brings me nicely onto Jack Brabham. #18… really? The man won the WDC 3 times, the only man ever likely to be a WDC in a car he made, in a team he owned and all that bore his own name. He raced for over a decade (and won plenty!) in a period when statistically he might not have lived for half of it. Should be up higher like Hill, but further so.
10th April 2012, 18:41 at 6:41 pm #198676damonsmedleyParticipantGoing by that, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Clark didn't make the top 20! :-P
10th April 2012, 19:19 at 7:19 pm #198677necrodethmortemParticipantI wonder how much accomplishments account for, or whether it's based solely on skill.
10th April 2012, 19:45 at 7:45 pm #198678sam3110ParticipantBet Hamilton is somehow in the top 20
10th April 2012, 19:53 at 7:53 pm #198679necrodethmortemParticipant@sam3110 yeah, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel will most likely be the 4 current drivers in the top 20…
10th April 2012, 19:57 at 7:57 pm #198680S.J.MParticipant@necrodethmortem I think Accomplishments count for something, wouldnt the you need to be a great driver to accomplish incredible feats? But regarding the 4 modern drivers, your 4 are my guess exactly. Like I said, Schuey & Alonso aside, the rest shouldnt be near it.
My top drivers incidently would be Clark (#1), Villeneuve, Senna, Schuey, Peterson, Moss, Fagio, Stewart and aside from Clark & Villeneuve, not nessesarily in that order.
10th April 2012, 20:01 at 8:01 pm #198681matt90ParticipantI guess Hamilton, Raikkonen or Vettel will be top 20 drivers then, more likely Hamilton I reckon (not that I necessarily think that's fair). With a triple champion so low it's very hard to predict, and very hard to believe that Hamilton or Raikkonen could be ahead of Brabham or Hill. Until they've completed a few more years racing I don't think either deserves to be that high (and I'm a fan of both). Vettel makes more sense, but I'd hold judgement on him being above Brabham certainly until he's completed this year. For instance, will Villeneuve (the good one) make it in and beat a load of great champions? If it's Murray Walker, will he do something silly and put Damon Hill high up?
10th April 2012, 20:03 at 8:03 pm #198682necrodethmortemParticipant@sjm accomplishments are important of course, but where does that put the drivers that died before they could accomplish anything, like Behra, von Trips, Cevert, Peterson, Gilles, Bellof, … ?
10th April 2012, 20:18 at 8:18 pm #198683mrgrievesParticipantI'd have Both Brabham and G Hill looking around the top 10. As already mentioned they were competitive in the sports most competitive and dangerous era say 58-70. 12 years they were fighting at the front of the grid. Not many more drivers can put up a CV like there. Have a feeling we'll disagree with alot of the 6-16 picks
10th April 2012, 20:18 at 8:18 pm #198684matt90ParticipantThere's going to be some great drivers ranked low down. There's 15 double champions, and with Rindt and a current driver already confirmed, it's likely some of the double champions will miss out on the top 20. As necro says, there are drivers who died early, probably with Villeneuve as most likely to be included. Then there are highly-rated single champions, perhaps Mansell being more likely, and even the chance of Moss, although I expect he's the only non-champion who had a 'full' career (cut short, but not as badly as some) who could possibly be included.
10th April 2012, 20:37 at 8:37 pm #198685necrodethmortemParticipantMaybe the best way would be to take an average of a driver's best years and imagine those racing each other for 6 seasons in the same car, each season with a different car most representative of each decade and on the tracks on which that car has raced. e.g:
50s: Mercedes W196, 1955 circuits
60s: Lotus 49, 1968 circuits
70s: Ferrari 312T, 1975 circuits
80s: Williams FW11, 1986 circuits
90s: Williams FW14B, 1992 circuits
00s: Ferrari F2004, 2004 circuitsWould be fascinating, I really have no idea who would come out on top.
10th April 2012, 20:47 at 8:47 pm #198686David-AParticipantThere are 15 double or more champions (2 of them have already been ranked), and 17 places left. They'll most likely consist of the 13 remaining multiple champions, Hamilton, Mansell, Gilles Villeneuve and Moss.
10th April 2012, 20:48 at 8:48 pm #198687SlrParticipantI reckon Ayrton Senna will be number one as he's always first on these lists. I personally think Michael Schumacher is the greatest of all time.
10th April 2012, 21:14 at 9:14 pm #198688AnonymousInactivehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueywB7OPIVI
@Slr He likes Shumi in this video.
I think Hamilton will be there definitely but I'm not sure he deserves it imo.
11th April 2012, 5:22 at 5:22 am #198689ed24f1ParticipantI agree that Brabham is far too low, his achievements were quite remarkable.
If there are four current drivers on the grid, I would be very disappointed if Hamilton makes the list, as I can't place him above Kimi, Vettel, Schumacher and Alonso at least, and maybe even Button.
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Every way to save at Bang & Olufsen
The Best Bang & Olufsen coupon code is 'PRIVATESALE23'.
The best Bang & Olufsen coupon code available is PRIVATESALE23. This code gives customers 50% off at Bang & Olufsen. It has been used 46 times.
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Our engineers built the AI-assisted systems that help us run Wethrift and collect tens of thousands of coupon codes every day, and our coupon review team reviews and curates thousands of coupons to help you get the best discount at stores like Bang & Olufsen.
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How Wethrift Discovers The Best Bang & Olufsen Coupons
Wethrift exists to help shoppers save money when they shop online. We help millions of shoppers save money every month by helping them discover the latest discount, promos, and coupon codes to their favourite stores.
Our team spends hours hunting down and sorting Bang & Olufsen deals and discount codes. We publish thousands of new codes every day. We're constantly scanning dozens of sources for the latest Bang & Olufsen coupon codes, as well as actively searching for the best coupons, non-coupon deals and ways to save money at Bang & Olufsen, even when you can't find a working coupon.
We discover and publish coupons for hundreds of new stores every day, meaning you'll always find codes for trending new brands and products.
How We Verify And Rank Our Bang & Olufsen Promo Codes
We know it's frustrating when coupon codes don't work as promised. We're shoppers ourselves, so we do everything we can to make sure we're always sharing the latest active coupon codes.
Here's how we make sure you can always find the best working Bang & Olufsen codes and deals:
- Our community of shoppers - Every time you use a coupon code from Wethrift, we'll ask you if the code worked or not. This feedback helps us share the best active coupons, as well as helping other shoppers save more money faster.
- We find and publish coupons FAST - We discover tens of thousands of new coupon codes every day, and we publish them as fast as we can. We know that some coupons, and sales can expire in as little as a few hours, so we always publish them as quickly as possible.
- We don't steal coupons - Many coupon websites simply steal codes from other websites - it happens to us all the time. We know how important it is to share only recent, working, active codes, so we only find and share codes from official sources, including a store's website and their marketing material.
How To Apply Your Bang & Olufsen Discount Code
Here's how to apply a Bang & Olufsen discount code:
- Find the Bang & Olufsen discount code that you want to apply on this page and click the Copy code button. The code will be copied to your phone or computer's clipboard, ready to paste at the checkout.
- When you're ready to check out on the Bang & Olufsen website, click on Checkout or View cart to start the checkout process. When you get to the payment step, look for the Promo code box, and paste the code.
- Click Apply to add the discount to your order.
Why You Won't Always Find A Working Coupon Code
There are lots of reasons why a coupon code might not work, but these are the most common:
- The code has expired - Every Bang & Olufsen coupon code expires eventually. We know it's frustrating when you can't get a working code, so we try our best to keep our coupons up to date at all times.
- The item is already on sale - Some stores will run sales and discounts without using coupon codes. If you want to know if a store is running any sales or discounts, you can usually find out on their website or social media accounts.
- The code is not valid for the items in your cart - Sometimes a store will have several different coupons available, and only one of them can be applied to your purchase.
- There are other restrictions - Coupons sometimes have restrictions, like only being valid for certain products, or only being valid if you spend over a certain amount of money.
How Else You Can Save Money At Bang & Olufsen, Even Without A Working Code
Even when you can't find a working Bang & Olufsen coupon code, there are still plenty of opportunities to quickly save money at most online stores. Here are some of our best money-saving tips:
Free Shipping And Returns Add Up To Big Savings
The cost of shipping your purchase can be a significant portion of the total money you spend at a store. Add on the cost of returns if you change your mind or don't buy the correct size, and you could find yourself losing money on products that you don't even end up keeping.
Understanding the shipping and returns policies at a store can help you save money while shopping smarter. Take advantage of free shipping and returns offers to order multiple sizes and find the perfect fit, or to try on items you may not usually buy, with the peace of mind that you won't have to pay the cost of shipping or returns.
Save Later With Cash Back Rewards
While some stores don't offer upfront discounts, you may still be able to save some money with cash back offers on your purchase. Make sure you've researched all of your cash back options at a store before buying - even if you've already found a working coupon code.
Look for an email or account sign up bonus
Most stores will offer you a discount or bonus just for signing up for their email newsletter. This is usually a percentage off your first order, or a set amount of money off your purchase.
Abandon your shopping cart
If you add items to your cart and leave the site without completing your purchase, many stores will send you a reminder email with a link back to your cart. This email often includes a discount code to encourage you to come back and complete your purchase. It may not work for every purchase, but if you have time on your hands, it can be well worth trying.
Subscribe to the stores email list
As well as offering a sign up bonus , many stores will send you exclusive coupon codes and deals in their daily, weekly or monthly email newsletters. If you want to make sure you don't miss out, it's a good idea to subscribe to the store's email list.
Check for a referral program
Referral programs are a great way to save money, because you can get rewarded for referring your friends and family to a store. Many stores will give you a coupon code or discount just for referring someone, and some will even give you a bonus if the person you refer makes a purchase.
Read our Ultimate Shopping Hacks guide
We've collected all of our best shopping hacks and tips in one place, to help you save money on all your online purchases. You'll find advice on everything from how to get free shipping to how to find the best deals at a variety of different stores.
Bang & Olufsen FAQs
How many coupon codes are currently available for Bang & Olufsen?
At the moment, there are a total of 4 active coupon codes that can be used on the Bang & Olufsen website.
How do I redeem my Bang & Olufsen discount code?
To redeem your Bang & Olufsen discount code, add any items you'd like to purchase to your shopping basket and click on the 'View Basket' or 'Checkout' button. On the checkout page, enter your discount code in the 'Promo Code' box and click 'Apply'.
Why didn't my coupon code work?
- It may not be valid for the items you have in your cart.
- It may be valid only for a first time purchase.
- It may be expired.
What's the latest discount code from Bang & Olufsen?
The latest discount code from Bang & Olufsen was 'PRIVATESALE23'. This gave customers 50% off.
What is the best Bang & Olufsen discount code available?
The best Bang & Olufsen discount code available is 'PRIVATESALE23'. This code gives customers 50% off.
How do you get 50% off at Bang & Olufsen?
We have a coupon code for 50% off at Bang & Olufsen. To apply the discount, click the 'copy code' button next to the code on this page, and paste it into the 'coupon code' box at the checkout and click 'apply'.


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With a private commissioned portrait, there's yourself, the sitter, and sometimes the sitter's family, who typically pays for it.
(Video link) With a portrait of an important public figure such as Kate, Duchess of Cambridge, there's yourself, the sitter, the Royal Family, the public, the pundits, and your fellow painters. That's a lot of people to think about. And which face do you try to capture, the "natural self" or the "official self"?
Artist Paul Emsley says that "after initially feeling that it was going to be an unsmiling portrait, I think actually that it was the right choice in the end to have her smiling, because that's really who she is, I think." After two sessions, he worked from a photo that he and Kate both approved (below, thanks, Mark Heng)
In the portrait, Kate has a complex expression called a "stifled smile." The smile is restrained by the action of the orbicularis oris, mentalis, and triangularis muscles. Those muscles act together to oppose the normal smiling action of the zygomaticus major.
Try to match the expression yourself, and you can feel the conflicting tensions.
In his book about facial expressions, Gary Faigin says that in the stifled smile, "the lips are frozen in a middle position and surrounded by a complex muscular landscape."
The stifled smile can appear either shy, endearing, smirking, impish, conflicted, scheming, self-conscious, or self-satisfied. Faigin says it's often used in advertising, but rarely in art.
Edit: Poll results from 78 votes "What emotion does Kate's portrait suggest?": Smirking 24 votes, Conflicted 15, Self conscious 14, Endearing 13, Self satisfied (tie) 13, Impish 9, Other 9 (tie), Shy 5, Scheming 4 votes.
What emotion does Kate's expression suggest to you? And does it matter what you or I think? Both the artist and the model are reportedly happy with the results. According to Marvin Mattelson, quoted in the video piece, that's all that really matters. If anyone else likes it, that's just a bonus.
Book: The Artist's Complete Guide to Facial Expression
Photo of artist is from MSN News
Huffington Post: "Kate Middleton Portrait Unveiled....And It's Awkward." (1400+ comments)
Making a Mark blog, with two additional videos
Paul Emsley's website


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Book flights from Los Cabos to Colorado Springs with Southwest Airlines®. It's easy to find the Los Cabos International Airport to Colorado Springs Airport flight to make your booking and travel a breeze. Whether you're traveling for business or pleasure, solo or with the whole family, you'll enjoy flying Southwest®. Have flexible travel dates? Plug them into the Low Fare Calendar and see the lowest fares available within your travel window. You may also want to browse Southwest Vacations® to see special offers and package deals on flights, hotels, rental cars, and more.
Explore your options and book your Los Cabos to Colorado Springs flight with Southwest today!
Departing from | Los Cabos International Airport (SJD) |
Arriving at | Colorado Springs Airport (COS) |
Distance | 1118 miles |
18* | Weekly flights |
Other popular flights from Los Cabos:
View our interactive map*Weekly flights based on DOT published scheduled average flights Monday through Sunday between 5/1/2024 and 5/31/2024. Note: route may not operate every day of the week.
One child over 14 days and under two (2) years of age, not occupying a seat, may be carried free of charge when traveling with an adult (12 years of age or older). Learn more.
Customers flying with a pet are subject to a pet fare. To learn more about traveling with your furry friend, explore the Southwest® pet policy.
Minors under the age of 18 are not permitted to fly unaccompanied on international flights or any itinerary that includes an international flight. Learn more.
At Southwest, we know it takes more than great deals on Colorado Springs airfares and convenient scheduling options to make your trip memorable. So from booking to boarding, we offer services and features designed to make your travel from Los Cabos to Colorado Springs the best it can be. Learn more about the Southwest® travel experience before you book your flight from Los Cabos International Airport to Colorado Springs Airport.
Flying with Southwest is simple and fun, no matter which of our dozens of exciting destinations you choose. When you search for your next flight to Colorado Springs, know that you won't be surprised at checkout. Low fares and no hidden fees. That's Transfarency®. And as always, two bags fly free®1. Want the latest news, information, and promotional offers from Southwest? Sign up to receive email from us. Book your flight today and know that you'll earn Rapid Rewards® points when you fly.
1First and second checked bags. Weight and size limits apply.
2Fare difference may apply.
3Failure to cancel a reservation at least 10 minutes prior to departure may result in forfeited Travel Funds.
4Flight credits unexpired on or created on or after July 28, 2022, do not expire and will show an expiration date until our systems are updated. See full details here.
5Where available. Available only on WiFi-enabled aircraft. Limited-time offer.
6Due to licensing restrictions, on WiFi-enabled international flights, free live TV and iHeartRadio may not be available for the full duration of flight.
7Internet access for $8 per device from takeoff to landing. Price is subject to change. May not be available for the full duration of flight. In order to provide a top-notch Internet experience, we prohibit access to certain high-bandwidth applications and websites. We also prohibit access to certain obscene or offensive content.


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Former Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. of Illinois was charged Friday with conspiring with an unnamed person to illegally spend campaign funds.
As Politico reports, some of that money was spent on buying a $43,000 Rolex watch, "fur coats and memorabilia associated with Michael Jackson, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X and Bruce Lee."
Politico adds:
"Prosecutors will recommend a prison sentence of between 46 and 57 months for Jackson Jr., as well as a fine of $10,000 to $100,000, and forfeiture of a yet-to-be-determined portion of the misspent $750,000 in campaign funds."
Jackson, the son of civil rights activist Rev. Jesse Jackson, resigned from Congress last November, acknowledging his "share of mistakes."
He had just won reelection in his Chicago district, despite taking months of medical leave without providing a prompt explanation for his absence.
Jackson eventually revealed he was suffering from bipolar II.
Update at 4:10 p.m. ET. 'No Excuses':
Jackson issued a statement saying he offered no excuses. He wrote:
"I offer no excuses for my conduct and I fully accept my responsibility for the improper decisions and mistakes I have made. To that end I want to offer my sincerest apologies to my family, my friends and all of my supporters for my errors in judgment and while my journey is not yet complete, it is my hope that I am remembered for the things that I did right."
Update at 4:23 p.m. ET. Wife Charged:
The AP reports that Jackson is charged with conspiracy and his wife, Sandra, is charged with "one count of filing false joint federal income tax returns for the years 2006 through 2011."
Update at 4:27 p.m. ET. 'Overt Acts'
The charging documents filed with the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, detail what it calls "overt" illegal acts. In July of 2007, for example, prosecutors claim Jackson bought a $43,350 gold-plated, men's Rolex watch with campaign money directly.
In July of 2008, prosecutors charge that Jackson used a campaign credit card to buy $9,587.64 "worth of children's furniture." The items were shipped to his home, the charging documents detail.
At other times, prosecutors claim, Jackson funneled funds through a third party. For example in March of 2009, Jackson directed a person to issue a $4,000 check to another person for services that the person didn't really perform for the campaign.
Then that same day Jackson directed that person to write him a $3,500 check using "funds Person A received from the campaign."
Update at 5:28 p.m. ET. Sandi Jackson Pleads Guilty:
Attorneys for Sandi Jackson said she had agreed to plead guilty to "one count of tax fraud."
"Ms. Jackson has accepted responsibility for her conduct, is deeply sorry for her actions, and looks forward to putting this matter behind her and her family," the statement from Dan Webb and Tom Kirsch read. "She is thankful for the support of her family and friends during this very difficult time."
Update at 6:54 p.m. ET. 'Bitterly Disappointed':
Don Rose, a longtime Chicago political analyst who has worked for both Democrats and Republicans, said he was "bitterly disappointed" by the news.
"He was a very progressive legislator, very smart guy, as good as they came until we found out about this," Rose told our Newscast unit.
He said that coming from the family he does, Jackson must've known the rules of campaign money. He hired his wife, for example, as a political consultant, which Rose said is a legitimate way of using campaign money.
"There are hundreds of ways, legitimate ways, of turning campaign money for personal purposes," Rose said. "You may have missed a beat here and there or, you may have just taken a shortcut here or there but this amount that they wound up taking I think indicates [it's] not a mistake."
Copyright 2021 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.


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Here's the latest article from the Romantic Getaways site at BellaOnline.com.
Wild Wood Spa, Kundapur, India
The fragrance of a thousand flowers envelops you as you check into the resort
Please visit RomanticGetaways.bellaonline.com for even more great content about Romantic Getaways.
To participate in free, fun online discussions, this site has a community forum all about Romantic Getaways located here -
I hope to hear from you sometime soon, either in the forum or in response to this email message. I thrive on your feedback!
Have fun passing this message along to family and friends, because we all love free knowledge!
Marianne de Nazareth, Romantic Getaways Editor
One of hundreds of sites at BellaOnline.com


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Forward feature moodwillig from GERMANY ISSUE 525
Join us
"I was amazed and thrilled when I got hired through Production Paradise. Finally advertising that actually worked with immediate gratification ! It never happened to me before ..."
Kim Handley, George Productions, New York
"Production Paradise is one of our favorite creative research tools. We are able to locate foreign production facilities and international, creative talents, whom we can rely on. Knowing that these are trusted and listed by Production Paradise provides an excellent reference for us and our clients."
Cara-Anne Specker, Art Buyer, Agency Producer, Havas Worldwide, Zurich
"I'm always happy to receive a new edition of Spotlight from Production Paradise as it's extremely helpful as an overview of the current photographic scene. I've also made contacts that have led to very successful collaborations. I recommended to a photographer that he should show his work in Spotlight, and he received enquiries amazingly fast. I look forward to the next issue! "
Stefan Kinzel, Publicis, Frankfurt


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Rumor Alert: Spielberg and a Two Part "Deathly Hallows" Film
Jan 13, 2008
Hang on everyone, there is a new rumor tonight regarding famous directors and a possible two part Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows film. The Daily Mail is reporting tonight that crews currently working on "Half-Blood Prince" have been told the final Harry Potter film "will be released in two halves." The article then points out while the financial benefit would be significant ("it could mean a £500million bonus in ticket sales") the paper reports this purported move is artistic, citing an unnamed source who says:
"There's so much to fit that the view is the last movie should be in two halves. There is a huge battle when Harry, played by Daniel Radcliffe, takes on Voldemort that needs to be done really well."
The article then goes on to cite that Warner Bros, which has still not formally announced a director for the final film, is considering some big name directors for the final movie, including legendary Oscar winning director Steven Spielberg. Quotage: At Warner Bros, who are rumoured to be thinking of Oscars and a big-name director such as Steven Spielberg for the final film, a spokesman said: "People are discussing all possibilities."
Readers will remember, and as cited by J.K. Rowling on her website, Steven Spielberg had considered directing the first Harry Potter film, but declined. As we have reported previously as well, other names have surfaced in regards to directing "Deathly Hallows" including Alfonso Cuaron, David Yates, Chris Columbus, and most recently Guillermo Del Toro. As exciting as all of this sounds, please keep this one very much in the rumor category for the time being. We are trying to verify this, and will update with more when we can.
Thanks mc and rodeo!


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I have to say I haven't been more excited about a book in a while than this one! Letterpress Now, a DIY Guide to New & Old Printing Methods by Jessica C. White is really something special if you're in the same thought process as I, totally in love with the letterpress, but were maybe a little confused as where to start. I absolutely LOVE this book as it basically explains everything you wanted to know or maybe even didn't know you wanted to know about letterpress, from deciding on what type would be good for what you need, purchasing one, all the equipment (safety and otherwise) needed to run one and then a heap of awesome projects to make or be inspired by. I have had a few letterpress lessons in my day, but really, to have a book to guide you - and not only guide you but then show several different projects and how to make them from letterpress pros such as Hatch Show Prints, Blackbird Letterpress and more is such a treasure. Jessica White, co-founder of Ladies of Letterpress knows her stuff and does an awesome job laying it all out sharing all the information you need to get started in the letterpress world, whether it's a hobby or perhaps a more serious business venture.
The book is available through Amazon here and is published by Lark Crafts who also sell it at their site here.
And hooray! We have an extra copy to give away here this week! If you're interested in the giveaway, please leave a comment here at this post why you think you deserve to a copy - and we'll pick a winner by Friday, January 11th! Tweet it and come back here to leave a second entry - with the link to your tweet. Deadline to enter is Thursday evening 9pm Pacific time on January 10/13. No Anonymous or Unknown commenters will be eligible unless you leave a valid email. Best of luck to everyone!


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On-line Historical and Genealogical Societies of Idaho |
Perhaps there are other Societies
on line in this State and we *are* still searching! Will you help us? Also, if you find a broken link, please e-mail our Societies Administrator. (However, please do not send your personal genealogy research requests to our Societies Administrator.) |


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Princeton University will reinstate an early admission program, beginning next year with the class that will enter Princeton in September 2012. The single-choice early action program will require applicants to apply early only to Princeton, but will not require them to decide whether to accept Princeton's offer until the end of the regular admission process.
"We have carefully reviewed our single admission program every year, and we have been very pleased with how it has worked," Princeton President Shirley M. Tilghman said. "But in eliminating our early program four years ago, we hoped other colleges and universities would do the same and they haven't. One consequence is that some students who really want to make their college decision as early as possible in their senior year apply to other schools early, even if their first choice is Princeton.
"By reinstating an early program, we hope we can achieve two goals: provide opportunities for early application for students who know that Princeton is their first choice, while at the same time sustaining and even enhancing the progress we have made in recent years in diversifying our applicant pool and admitting the strongest possible class," she added.
In 2006, Princeton announced its intention to adopt a single admission program, shortly after Harvard University announced its intention to eliminate its early action program. At the time, both universities expressed the hope that other universities would follow suit. Only the University of Virginia did so, and it reversed that decision last year. Earlier today, Harvard also returned to an early admission program.
Princeton had some form of early admission program for almost 30 years before it eliminated its early program with the class that entered in September 2008. From 1977 to 1995 it had an "early action" program in which students admitted early did not have to commit to attending Princeton, and in 1996 it switched to an "early decision" program in which students admitted early had to commit to accepting Princeton's offer of admission. Since the elimination of the University's early admission program, the number of applications to Princeton has increased from just under 19,000 to just over 27,000 this year; the number of high schools represented in the applicant pool has increased from 6,881 to 8,658; and the number of applicants from lower-income and minority backgrounds has increased significantly.
"One of our foremost goals in eliminating an early program was to encourage excellent students from a broad array of backgrounds and geographical areas to consider Princeton, and to assure them that their applications would be reviewed with the same care and attention as every other applicant," Dean of Admission Janet Lavin Rapelye said. "Our single admission program helped us to make progress toward those goals, to which we remain fully committed. We are confident we can achieve them while also allowing students who are ready to apply early to do so."
Since one of the purposes of Princeton's early admission program will be to identify applicants for whom Princeton is their first choice, students who apply early will be required to affirm that their only early application is to Princeton. Because Princeton's program will be "early action" rather than "early decision," students who are admitted early will be permitted to apply to other schools through their regular admission processes and to defer decisions about where to enroll until they know all their options. This process also allows students who wish to compare financial aid awards to do so before making final decisions.
The 1,313 Princeton students in this year's freshman class of 2014 were selected from a record 26,247 applicants. Overall, last year Princeton admitted 8.8 percent of its applicants -- the lowest percentage ever. Almost 59 percent of the class is receiving financial aid, which under Princeton's groundbreaking policy requires no loans, and the average grant is $35,157. Nearly 16 percent of the class comes from low-income backgrounds, and nearly 11 percent are the first in their families to attend college.
The class of 2014 includes the largest number of students from minority backgrounds in Princeton's history, with a total of 490 students from American minority groups, representing 37.3 percent of the class, and 141 international students from 47 countries, constituting 10.7 percent of the class. Along with the two previous classes, this year's freshman class is the third in Princeton's history to be evenly balanced in terms of gender.
The decision to reinstate Princeton's early admission program was made by Tilghman, Rapelye and Dean of the College Nancy Weiss Malkiel. The decision was discussed at length with the Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees, which expressed strong support for the decision.


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What Are the Risk Factors for Heart Disease?Risk factors are conditions or habits that make a person more likely to develop a disease. They can also increase the chances that an existing disease will get worse. Important risk factors for heart disease that you can do something about are:
Some risk factors, such as age and family history of early heart disease, can't be changed. For women, age becomes a risk factor at 55. After menopause, women are more apt to get heart disease, in part because their body's production of estrogen drops. Women who have gone through early menopause, either naturally or because they have had a hysterectomy, are twice as likely to develop heart disease as women of the same age who have not yet gone through menopause. Another reason for the increasing risk is that middle age is a time when women tend to develop risk factors for heart disease. Family history of early heart disease is another risk factor that can't be changed. If your father or brother had a heart attack before age 55, or if your mother or sister had one before age 65, you are more likely to get heart disease yourself. While certain risk factors cannot be changed, it is important to realize that you do have control over many others. Regardless of your age, background, or health status, you can lower your risk of heart disease—and it doesn't have to be complicated. Protecting your heart can be as simple as taking a brisk walk, whipping up a good vegetable soup, or getting the support you need to maintain a healthy weight. Some women believe that doing just one healthy thing will take care of all of their heart disease risk. For example, they may think that if they walk or swim regularly, they can still smoke and stay fairly healthy. Wrong! To protect your heart, it is vital to make changes that address each risk factor you have. You can make the changes gradually, one at a time. But making them is very important. Other women may wonder: If I have just one risk factor for heart disease—say, I'm overweight or I have high blood cholesterol—aren't I more or less "safe"? Absolutely not. Each risk factor greatly increases a woman's chance of developing heart disease. But having more than one risk factor is especially serious, because risk factors tend to "gang up" and worsen each other's effects. So, the message is clear: Every woman needs to take her heart disease risk seriously—and take action now to reduce that risk.


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Thursday, November 17, 2011
Think of the Children
It's funny, because, as I remember it, back in the 70s and early 80s, comic books and superhero movies were routinely dismissed by the teenagers I knew as "kid stuff." When I was in high school, I hung out with a lot of nerdy guys -- shocking, I know -- and I don't think any of them was still into comic books at that age. They'd all moved on to computers and wargames and jazz music, leaving their childhood superheroes far behind. I myself was never much of a comic reader anyway, though I always liked the idea of superheroes, which is why I enjoyed my fair share of superhero RPGs over the years. But, as geeky interests go, superheroes were always way, way down the list for me after I reached adolescence.
Nowadays, superheroes are everywhere. They're a staple of our movie theaters and the release of video games based on them is big news. Unlike my own youth, superheroes nowadays seem to be aimed at an older audience. Broadly speaking, I don't have a problem with making superhero comics or movies or games something teenagers and adults can enjoy unironically. How could I? I'm a guy who spends an inordinate amount of time thinking and writing about, never mind playing, games where I pretend to be an elf. Reflecting on my daughter's question, though, I have to wonder why things are so strongly skewed toward the more "mature" -- and I use that word loosely -- end of things these days. Why must every superhero movie be dark and gritty?
Mind you, I could ask the same thing about roleplaying games ...
51 comments:
There are plenty of kid-friendly superhero shows on television: Young Justice, Batman: TBATB, Ben 10, Green Lantern, and more.
Anyway, I wouldn't single out supers movies, Most movies are aimed at the 16-26 market; those are the people who buy tickets, and they have certain tastes. That, and I think genre films have been relegated to "kid's fare" for so long, that it's nice to see them aimed at older audiences and focusing on more mature themes.
Not to mention, if you look at the source material (comics), they are similarly "mature".It's not so much that there's a category "superhero movies" and they're being aimed at teen and older audiences; it's that the category "blockbuster action movies" which has always been aimed at teen and older audiences now sometimes contains superhero movies. When the category is TV cartoons, which are generally aimed at younger audiences, there are plenty featuring superheroes (buzz mentions some of them).
ReplyDeleteNot to mention, if you look at the source material (comics), they are similarly "mature".
That's sort of my beef, though. Comic books largely seem to be aimed at a much older audience nowadays. Are there even any ongoing comic book series published by DC or Marvel that are aimed primarily as kids?I'm going to call it as the fault of the (recent?) trend towards "gritty" superheroes popularized predominantly by "The Dark Knight" version of Batman.
As an adult I do enjoy a little more sex and violence and drama in my superheroes, but I under stand the frustration of the younger generation. The fact that sex and violence seems to often make more money probably feeds into things as well.
That said, there are indeed many cartoon/comic based movies aimed squarely at our youts. I think that Hollywood just (very justly) recognizes that *old* superheroes appeal more (or the same) to older viewers, and play to that. More of the kid-friendly stuff seems to be new products.The Incredibles, G-Force and Bolt are the closest I can think of in the last 10 years.
None of them are live-action superhero.
Oh, wait - the Adventures of Shark Boy and Lava Girl. I think that isn't quite ten years old, and it is live action.
But, taking a sampling from my own childhood, I'm not sure that it was that prevalent, either. You'd have to go to serials in the 50s, I think.
The only vaguely superhero movies I can think of from, say, 1975 to 1985 are Superman (obvious, but the rest aren't), Popeye (if he counts), The Strongest Man in the World, Return from Witch Mountain (if the X-Men count), Flash Gordon and Tron, and those are all a big stretch.But, taking a sampling from my own childhood, I'm not sure that it was that prevalent, either.
Oh, they weren't. I think superhero movies, with the exception of the Superman films, are a fairly recent thing. I was thinking more that, when I was a kid, comic books are mostly geared towards children rather than teens and adults and that's seemingly no longer true. The fact that comic book movies are the way they are is probably as reflective of the change in audience of comic books as anything else.You basically hit the nail on the head. Comic books, or using their more "grown up" title Graphic Novels, are no longer geared towards children, but instead for the teen to twenty-somethings.
It pretty much is an outgrowth of so much everything else in our popular culture: the feeling that "gritty" = "serious". And no artist would ever dare think of themselves as not serious (hyperbole, but maybe only just).
Comics themselves have suffered from this probably going back to Chris Claremont's work with "X-men", Alan Moore's "Watchmen", Cerebus the Aardvark, and the assorted works of Frank Miller (Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil, etc...).
Superhero movies are reflecting their source, and the expectations of their target market: people who grew up with the grittier, rebooted superheroes.
Plus, Superhero films are simply following the trend of action movies as a whole: darker, gritter, "realistic", shaky-cams, full of blues and oranges and so on. It's what Hollywood knows how to do, so it's what they churn out.I find the same issue in that my 4 year old is constantly innundated with material for action figures, Halloween costumes and the like that are based on likenesses from films that are rated PG-13 or higher. My son only wanted to be Captain America for halloween even though he is far too young to have seen the recent movie or too youg to read any materials based on the comics. The funny part is that he is even too young for the Cartoon network show Avengers which, I believe, is rated Y-7 and he is only 4. Yet, the marketing monster that is so prevalent is pushing Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, Thor and the Hulk as their main halloween costumes geared to the 2-7 year old range.
ReplyDelete"When did comics start aiming at an older audience?" Before I was born, and I'm a few weeks away from turning 37.
The famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow stuff was in 1970-71, Peter Parker was having girl troubles and struggling to pay the rent and take care of his sickly old aunt since the 60s (and addressing civil rights issues and breaking the comics code with their drug storyline in 1971), Gwen Stacy died in 1973.
This of course isn't "adult" like a lot of what came after, but it was aimed a bit higher than the kiddie audience.I too am frustrated by the "darkening" of the entire genre of comics -- and the trend in rpgs as well.
By this, I don't mean frustrated by "dark" comics and rpgs, just at the lack of offerings for younger readers/players in the big offerings.
The focus on an older audience in comics is one of the reasons that about 150k people read comics today versus the millions that watch the Teen Titans cartoon. There are other reasons to be sure, but the fact is that when your primary audience is older you get people who care whether the book is on acid free paper or not and other cost driving aesthetics that younger readers don't consider.
As for rpgs, there are some very good rpgs supplements for youngsters out there, but not many "major" games for youngsters. The Essentials line is about the only one I can think of that has the same kid appropriate feel as the Moldvay/Cook stuff.
When we were young D&D had AD&D with its more adult art and subject matter and the Moldvay/Cook game which could be as adult as the players desired, but which also felt more Harryhausen than Hammer Films in its presentation of fantasy.
Paizo makes great products, but they are geared at an older audience. They have modules inspired by films like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (a very good adventure BTW), but I wouldn't want those to be the way I introduce rpgs to my twin daughters.
I'd probably use some of the Encounters 4e stuff I've acquired, Steve Kenson's ICONS, Faery's Tale, RPGKids, the Pokemon Jr. Adventure game, or Meddling Kids. That's a decent number of products, but some have very little support and only one is "mainstream."Okay, I'm going to go into a rant here.
The problem is OBVIOUSLY the source material. I got into comics by way of Spider-Man when I was pretty young. They reprinted the original Steve Ditko run of the book back in the day. It was dated in some aspects but I still loved it and it was affordable at the time. My dad, who was a big Marvel fan back in the 60's, saw it as a way to connect with me. He would take me to the local convenience store every month and buy me the latest issue of the reprints and I LOVED it and looked forward to that every month. Later on, I got an allowance and would spend every bit of it comics. I started buying the Star Wars comic, Shogun Warriors, the digest and paperback versions they used to publish and all the various Spider-Man books at the time.
Yes, they were violent but it wasn't the same type of violence that is in modern mainstream comics. It was just a lot of punching and energy blasts. The old school Ditko Spider-Man books were absolutely my favorite, just because they had an amazing charm about them and there was so much action and story packed into a single issue.
Now if I had a kid, which I don't, there would be no way I could really introduce him/her into the world of comics in the same way my father did. The prices are WAY too freaking high and the storylines are not appropriate. As an adult, I can appreciate mature books. Heck, Secret Six was one of the best cape and cowl books that I've read in years but I certainly wouldn't want a child to read it.
So in summary here is my problem with the current state of the industry. First is the price points. It is too high for kids to regularly buy with their allowance. That means the industry is killing off an entry point for new customers. The grim and gritty aspect is also a big point of concern. I think that the number of books targeted at younger readers are just written off by the publishers. In the 90's DC tried out a new imprint called "Impact!" which was targeted at younger readers. It didn't work because they were recycled characters that young readers weren't familiar with. If one of the big two did that again with established characters, I bet it would sell.Not every superhero film is dark and gritty, though: I took my six year old daughter to both THOR and CAPTAIN AMERICA this summer and felt they were perfectly age-appropriate. She saw IRON MAN 2 when she was five, and that's not a dark and gritty film either. (We've left out the original IRON MAN because of the torture and the pole dancers in Tony's plane--but again there's not much grit in that film.)
I'd also opine that the Y7 rating for the new AVENGERS cartoon is excessive--we've watched all of season 1, and I think the show is appropriate for kids 4 and up. So is BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD (although it's ending).The reason studios don't make superhero movies that are kid-appropriate is because they don't need to. They market the movies to teens (who are more likely to see movies in the theatre) and the merchandise to kids. See this article on how "Avatar" was marketed to kids despite being PG-13: http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2010/10/avatars-jon-landau-on-marketing-pg-13-entertainment-directly-to-children.ars
ReplyDeleteI think maybe last summer's Captain America could qualify as appropriate for kids<
You did notice Cap America was using a gun on people a lot of the time, right? Spidey wasn't doing that. Hell, his villains didn't even use guns. In Cap people were eating hot lead left and right. I now its WW2 and all, but...By this, I don't mean frustrated by "dark" comics and rpgs, just at the lack of offerings for younger readers/players in the big offerings.
That's really the issue for me. I don't at all mind having more "mature" offerings if it's one option among many. The fact that it's frequently the only option is what miffs me.Batman: : The Brave and the Bold is one of my favorite superhero shows just because of all the Silver Age references. It is darn shame that they cancelled it. It was fun, funny, and gave me many geek-out moments.
It was a brilliant show and probably my favorite cartoon incarnation of the Caped Crusader ever.You did notice Cap America was using a gun on people a lot of the time, right? Spidey wasn't doing that. Hell, his villains didn't even use guns. In Cap people were eating hot lead left and right. I now its WW2 and all, but...
That's why I said it might qualify. I'd need to rewatch the movie again before I made up my mind.Well, he was pretty much blasting Nazi's with his sidearm (mostly in quick "time goes by" scenes), so it's all good. In The Avengers film he won't have a gun in modern times. Good way to teach kids about what was the "Last Good War" and how blasting fools with a side iron is not something that flies in the new age.
I agree with the Brave and Bold love. It gives you that wacky DC universe circa 1950 or so, but retains a certain amount of modern Batman grit without getting real negative. It's a Batman who has long since gotten over his parents murder and can focus on being a force of justice instead of revenge. He spouts smart quips instead mumbled bummer statements. Amazing that an old school take can seem refreshing, eh?When you say you and your friends were into "jazz music", is that code for smoking weed?
Well, I was never into jazz music, but several of my friends were. None of them, so far as I know, were into it for any reasons other than actually enjoying the music. So, fair or not, I tend to classify a teenage liking for jazz as a geeky pastime.I think it's worth mentioning that before the Comics Code Authority, there was no expectation that comics were supposed to be solely for kids. You could probably even make an argument, albeit weak, that the grittiness is just getting back to where may comics were before the government started meddling.
I dunno. I think there is no dearth of children's entertainment these days; how many 24-7 cable channels do they have for kids now? I'm happy to see adult superhero fare, honestly.Have you ever read the Batman stories published in 1939-1940? Unlike the Batman of the contemporary movies, this Batman had no compunctions against killing people.
Or how about the EC Comics from the 1940s and 1950s?
I don't agree with the idea that comics should necessarily be "for the children". J. R. R. Tolkien said that children who couldn't handle the dark themes of fairy tales should simply wait until they are older to read fairy tales. I think the same can be said of comics with dark themes.
Frankly, I don't think blood, violence, crime, nudity, etc. in comics bothers children (generally speaking) nearly as much as it bothers adults thinking about children reading and seeing such things.
For that matter, there is more horrific sex and violence in the biblical book of Judges (for example) than there is in any comic I've ever seen.
All of my comments here are not directed at anyone in particular.@Christian Lindke:
"Paizo makes great products, but they are geared at an older audience. They have modules inspired by films like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (a very good adventure BTW), but I wouldn't want those to be the way I introduce rpgs to my twin daughters."
I think that depends on the exact adventure. "Crown of the Kobold King" and "Revenge of the Kobold King" can be easily turned into tongue-in-cheek comedy adventures (especially if the titular Kobold King talks like Profion XD).
Carnival of Tears? Not so much...
What's really weird is the reboot of the DC universe: They claimed they wanted to attract a younger audience, yet a lot of the new comics are full of gore Oo
And Marvel isn't better in that regard: As far as I understand it, the Ultimate Universe exist for the sole reason of slowly killing of every single Marvel character in pointless and graphic ways.- AnonymousNovember 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM
The Latest two Batman Films are not 'Batman: Brave and the Bold'. I made a prediction a while back that the direction in which this series of films was going was toward a 'bad robin' scenario where 'The Riddler' would be a high intellect master manipulator who would target Bruce Wayne by putting a 16 year old Harlequin in the batman's path where she could kill Alfred (his support mechanism) and paint Bruce publicly as a 'pedophile' so Bruce and Batman are hunted criminals and push him toward an Arkham Confrontation.
ReplyDelete The comic companies don't really seem interested in attracting kids to the marketplace. As others have said, the prices of comics put them solidly out of the reach of most kids. $4 per issue? How many of those are you going to get per month. They know that kids don't buy comics, so why tailor titles to them?
Even Boom Studios, which puts out Disney comics like Cars and The Muppets, charge as much per issue as the major publishers. My son likes to read Sonic comics, but I only get him back issues or digests as the singles are too costly.
If companies are only selling to adults with discretionary incomes, the stories will be targeted at that demographic. That is no way to create a marketplace of future consumers, but so be it. If my son only knows Batman from The Brave and The Bold, I'm fine with that.
Plus, where do kids see comics these daysThe comics industry also says it wants to attract girls, but then it's all busty, scantily clad chicks sleeping around. Or of course the game of killing off all the long-time female characters in humiliating ways, or turning them into psychopathic villains.
DC's new Cartoon Network shorts are doing a thing on Amethyst of Gemworld. It looks like it will be cute. But of course, any girl who uses a search engine will find out about the whole psychopathic villain thing, and all the other storylines gone bad.
I love comics; but comics doesn't love comics.@Bifforama:
Don't you love comic companies? One of the whole excuses for Spider-Man's "One More Day"-fiasco was that "Kids don't like a married Peter Parker", yet I don't really think the stories got any more kid-friendly after that...
Or in the case of the DC reboot: Turn long-time, strong-willed female characters into nymphos OoSomeone brought up the Marvel Ultimate line and that is the way things go wrong with the industry. The whole original intention of the first boor in the line, Ultimate Spider-Man, was to bring new and younger readers in because they could get a fresh start with a younger Peter Parker.
Then they took the rest of the line and took it all grim and gritty then started killing off people. They don't even know how to market to kids anymore. Kids just have TV and movies these days and that makes me sad.It's all about money! Parents are not the strongest purchasers of comic books or movie tickets. If they were, you'd see more superhero things aimed at children. I would say you can either accept that most fare out there is rated PG-13, or you could be prepared to allow your younger kids to watch "scarier" or more "intense" movies.
As a personal anecdote, when my parents took me to see 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' when I was 5 years old, my mom tried to cover my eyes when the Nazis were melting because she thought it would give me nightmares and I punched her because in my mind that was the best part of the film. To this day I can't watch that film or 'Temple of Doom' without shaking my head about the hysteria of overprotective parents.Have you tried the last version of Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes)? I think it's one of the few comic books which could be enjoyed by kids, teens and adults alike. I personally find all the grim and gritty stuff usually marketed as adult very boring and juvenile, but then as Keith Giffen would say comics today are marketed to a very specific crowd... (To me, the same goes for a certain kind of fantasy which is the most popular today, say, Martin.)
"They don't even know how to market to kids anymore."
I think the problem is a lot more fundamental: Things like the Ultimate Universe and the DC Reboot are basically a way for the comic industry to say: "Continuity is bad! It keeps new readers away!"
If continuity is the problem, then they won't solve it by creating a new Universe, since that one is already starting to develop a continuity.
In an ironic twist, it's the normal Marvel universe with its decades of continuity that would be easier for new readers to get into, since THAT universe keeps a certain status quo. The Ultimate Universe hower is completely unrecognizable for new readers, with several well-known characters eiher dead or having turned into traitors.
Is it just me, or do I sense certain parallels with D&D's history Oo ?The comics seem to have grown up with our generation for sure. The arguments that comics were just as gritty and full of sex and violence in the past is just not true. I got a subscription for each of my boys to a comic of their choice and the material was adult oriented. I think any reader here over 40 knows exactly who comics were aimed at and what the limits on violence and sex, to use two examples, were back then. A great parody of the whole change in comic books and Superhero movies, in my opinion, is the movie Kick Ass. It takes the metamorphosis of the superhero into adult entertainment completely over the top to hilarious result. I can't see how anyone who actually grew up reading superhero comics and watching superhero shows and movies could argue against your premise. I personally think its a shame because a lot of what they do in the movies seems like nothing more than gratuitous violence. The pencil in the eye scene in the last Barman movie immediately comes to mind. The added mindless violence is pervasive in all kinds of entertainment, though. And, in my opinion, just as unnecessary. Finally, Captain America WAS more kid friendly, and a great summer popcorn movie to boot.
ReplyDeleteI'll just say that this got me read up on the Comics Code Authority -- and I was surprised to see that it was only this year that DC and Archie comics finally discontinued its use. Seems like that would have been 10 or 20 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAbout the pricing of today's comic books: Printing and publishing is simply not what it was 30 years ago. I am not sure that Disney would be able to charge substancially less for their books in order to make them more "allowance-friendly".
Why must every superhero movie be dark and gritty?
Mind you, I could ask the same thing about roleplaying games ...
That is also so true. It's all about PI, image, "street cred", or whatever you'd like to call the industry's (any industry's) reaction towards obsessive behaviour of fans.
James of the Underdark Gazette laments that White Wolf dropped the ball regarding the success of Laurell K Hamilton and Jim Butcher. But even before that White Wolf didn't even try to capitalize on the urban fantasy boom started by Harry Potter and Buffy.
Maybe they feared an uproar from the oh-so-serious-and-dark WoD fans confronted with a Storyteller-powered "Magical Boarding School" (Mage lite), "Vampire Hunters" (Hunter lite, with sprinkles of Ghostbusters), or Spiderwick-like "Fairyland behind my garden" (Changeling lite).
But maybe the main problem is not even the (feared or imagined) fan reaction. Maybe it is that the creators of all our entertainment just don't want to write kid friendly stuff.
Case in point: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/11/martin-amis-brain-injury-write-children
Years and years ago I read a quote from a children's books author. It went along the lines of: "It's easy to write for kids: you only have to write better."I know there have been at least a couple of prominent comics creators that have pitched all-ages-friendly comics to Marvel and DC and been refused on grounds that the publishers aren't interested in those audiences. I mean, it wasn't even "kiddie stuff" these guys were talking about but just classically done superhero/action comics like they used to publish from the 60s through the mid-80s. Old EC horror comics are more appropriate for kids now than the average Superman or Batman comic.
ReplyDeleteI think part of the comics getting mroe mature is that it is a matter of who and how you buy them.
We don't let 10 year olds wander down to the general store to buy a comic book these days.
For comics to get into the hands of kids these days their parents would need to drive them to a comic shop and purchase them.
Kids discover their entertainment via TV now, not by getting the change to see a colorful hero on a rack while mom shops.as a former comic book retailer i think the problem is not that the industry has gotten darker, or gritter, it's that the industry does nothing to promote or advertise at that market.
all the publishers have a great all ages titles available, but still that vast majority of our clientele is an aging population. so the books majority of the books are geared to an older clientele with more sophisticated tastes. i had maybe one kid under the age of 10 for every 30 regular customers that were mid 20+. i found that i had two customers pools that were the biggest. one was college age kids who were discovering the trade paperback market and the wide diversity found in that and the other was the 40+ hardcore collector. the under 10 crowd probably a percent or less, and this is over a 20 year span.
i can't tell you the number of times i've( or heard other retailers voice the same complaint) complained about the publishers, not throwing us a bone and doing some advertising. would it seriously kill them to make a commercial to run during the cartoon on tv, or in the trailers in front of the movies, doing at the very least informing consumers of the 1-800 comic book locator number so folks can find a local shop to read about more of the adventures they just saw. you hear the publishers complain about the dwindling marketplace, but you don't see them trying to let folks know we are out here. they have much deeper coffers for advertising than most struggling shops, and they don't even have to make a full blown commercial, most of us would be happy with a still with the 800 number on it.i'm an elementary school librarian and lifetime geek - and i've been ordering all-ages comics for my school for the last few years. a lot of my students want to read comics because they see the movies...and, well - most of the comics are labeled by the publishers as YOUNG ADULT. both major comics companies have kid-friendly imprints. marvel has MARVEL ADVENTURES and DC has DC KIDS. the books are digest sized in order to compete with all the manga that's out there. TOKYOPOP had an all ages imprint also but they shut down their US operations. SCHOLASTIC also has a kid imprint - it's called GRAPHIX - you can check that out here: http://www.scholastic.com/graphix/
GRAPHIX doesn't really do superhero stuff - but if you haven't checked out jeff smith's BONE or kazu kibuishi's AMULET you really should - and your kids will probably love it also!
there is some really good independent stuff out there like RUNNERS and ATOMIC ROBO but, like the guy above me said - none of this stuff is promoted outside of the educational community - so to find it you need to dig.I have a 4 year old daughter myself, James, and have faced the same issue repeatedly. Most recently with "Green Lantern," which seemed to be omnipresent there for a while.
I agree with many of the sentiments already expressed above. But I would add a couple of nuances. These days, comic books sell so few copies, and substantially all through comic book specialty stores catering to long-time adult fans, that the medium has effectively already died as a form of mass-market entertainment.
As a result, we should de-couple the genre (i.e. super heroes) from the medium (comic books). From the perspective of our broader popular culture, the latter is so 'niche-y' now as to be irrelevant to the former, I believe.
Why have there been more comic book movies over the last 10 years? Two reasons, I think. The primary reason is the same one George Lucas stated when he made the Star Wars prequels: the CGI technology evolved to the point where the necessary visuals were suddenly economically feasible.
Why are they all PG-13? Several people above made the point that that's what the primary audience (teens and young adults) want. I'd only add that foreign markets are a huge driver, too, and the same rationale applies again.The concerns about violence in comics are interesting; growing up in the '70s (aged around 6-8) British comics like Victor and Commando were all war stories with Nazis being gunned down in droves by heroic British Tommies. Then in the '80s (aged ca 9-15) it was 2000 AD, with man-eating dinosaurs, future cops slaughtering 'perps' by the truckload, mutant bounty hunters doing likewise to their prey.
I think I always found the lack of killing in American superhero comics slightly baffling and exotic.
My 4 year old son loves killing, and relishes having my plastic D&D minis kill each other off, or else his Schleich knights do likewise. I remember being the same way. I do remember finding the propeller scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark disturbing though - the blood spray from an unscene source made way more impact than the exploding heads.


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Review: Logitech UE Smart Radio and Phorus Play-Fi Wireless Speakers
It's a given that smartphones and tablets are at the heart of today's digital media experience. The latest wave of small, mobile devices provide access to every streaming service under the sun and enough file storage to make not only portable media players, but pretty much every other part of the traditional listening rig obsolete. Big systems are going the way of the dodo - little wireless table radios are where it's at nowadays. Enter the Logitech UE Smart Radio and Phorus' Play-Fi system, two worthy contenders with very different design philosophies.
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Logitech UE's new Smart Radio, as befits its status as the latest in the venerable Squeezebox lineage, is a bit of a throwback - the well-connected device is, more or less, an internet appliance (and by that, I don't mean a refrigerator that places Fresh Direct orders for you). I mean it's a standalone device meant to replace your computer/tablet/phone/what-have-you in certain key areas of your life. . . like, say, enjoying music. Sure, the Smart Radio has a mobile app, but once set up, you can access anything you desire from the front panel, and leave your phone on the bedside table where it can get some rest (and you can ignore it for a while).
Play-Fi, a new streaming protocol of which Phorus's system is the first example, is, philosophically a relative upstart (though designed by industry veterans). It's a mobile-focused, Android-friendly solution, aimed at people whose tablets and phones are their primary listening devices - but who still want a comfortable home listening experience.
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