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With its ranks deeply divided, the Boy Scouts of America is asking its local leaders from across the country to decide whether its controversial membership policy should be overhauled so that openly gay boys can participate in Scout units.
The proposal to be put before the roughly 1,400 voting members of the BSA's National Council on Thursday, at a meeting in Grapevine, Texas, would retain the Scouts' long-standing ban on gays serving in adult leadership positions.
Nonetheless, some conservatives within and outside the BSA community have denounced the proposal, saying the Scouts' traditions would be undermined by the presence of openly gay youth. There have been warnings of mass defections if the ban is even partially lifted.
From the other flank, gay-rights supporters and some Scout leaders from politically liberal areas have welcomed the proposed change as a positive first step, but are calling on the BSA to go further and lift the ban on gay adults as well.
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The Scouts' national spokesman, Deron Smith, said the policy toward gays had become "the most complex and challenging issue" facing the BSA at a time when it is struggling to stem a steady drop in membership.
"Ultimately we can't anticipate how people will vote but we do know that the result will not match everyone's personal preference," Smith said in an email.
In January, the BSA floated a plan to give sponsors of local Scout units the option of admitting gays as both youth members and adult leaders or continuing to exclude them. However, it changed course, in part because of surveys sent out starting in February to members of the Scouting community.
Of the more than 200,000 leaders, parents and youth members who responded, 61 percent supported the current policy of excluding gays, while 34 percent opposed it.
Those findings contrasted with a Washington Post-ABC News national poll earlier this month. It said 63 percent of r espondents favored letting openly gay youth be Scouts, and 56 percent favored lifting the ban on gay adults.
Over the past several weeks, numerous public events have been staged by advocacy groups on different sides of the debate.
A group called Scouts for Equality has organized rallies in several cities aimed at urging local BSA councils to support an end to the ban on gay youth. Rallies opposing any easing of the ban, for youth or adults, have been organized by a group called OnMyHonor.net, which claims the pending proposal "requires open homosexuality in the Boy Scouts."
Both groups plan to have their leaders and supporters on hand in Grapevine as the vote takes place.
Among those heading to Grapevine to lobby for an easing of the ban are Tracie Felker and her 16-year-old son, Pascal Tessier, who, though openly gay, is on track to become a top-ranking Eagle Scout as a member of Boy Scout Troop 52 in Chevy Chase, Maryland.
"We are absolutely dedicated to restoring integrity to Boy Scouting and reinvigorating the program," Felker said. "That can only be done by removing the stain of discrimination."
Passions also run deep on the other side, as evidenced by a live online event titled "Stand With Scouts Sunday" presented May 5 by the conservative Family Research Council. The council opposes lifting the ban on gay youth, saying such a change "will dramatically alter the culture and moral landscape of America."
Among the participants was Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who lauded the Scouts' tradition of character-building.
"For pop culture to come in and try to tear that up because this happens to be the flavor of the month … that is just not appropriate," Perry said. "Frankly I hope the American people stand up and say, 'Not on my watch.'"
Also appearing on the webcast was Jeremy Miller, a Scout leader from Ohio who said the proposed change "will open the door to boy-on-boy sexual contact, bullying and older Scouts being predators on younger scouts."
The BSA's national leadership has rejected such warnings as ill-founded. "The BSA makes no connection between the sexual abuse or victimization of a child and homosexuality," a new background document says. "The BSA takes strong exception to this assertion."
Of the more than 100,000 Scouting units in the U.S., 70 percent are chartered by religious institutions. While these sponsors include liberal churches opposed to any ban on gays, some of the largest sponsors are relatively conservative denominations that have supported the broad ban – notably the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Southern Baptist churches.
Knowing these churches oppose scouting roles for gay adults, the BSA leadership hopes they will be willing to back the easing of the ban on gay youth. As part of this effort, the BSA is emphasizing that sexual conduct by any Scout – straight or gay – would be considered unacceptable.
"We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation," the Scouts say in their new background document.
Southern Baptist leaders were outspoken earlier this year in opposing the tentative plan to let Scout units decide for themselves if they wanted to accept gays as adult leaders.
Frank Page, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Executive Committee, said the new proposal "is more acceptable to those who hold a biblical form of morality," but he nonetheless favors its defeat.
"A 'No' vote keeps the current policy in place, an outcome we would overwhelmingly support," Page told Baptist Press, the SBC's official news agency.
Some Southern Baptist leaders warn that any BSA accommodation of gays might prompt defections and trigger an expansion of the SBC's own youth group for boys, the Royal Ambassadors. According to BSA figures, Baptist churches sponsor Scout units with about 108,000 youth members.
Leaders of some smaller conservative denominations – including the Assemblies of God and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod – have signed a statement opposing the proposal to accept gay youth.
Some larger sponsors have either endorsed the proposal, or – in the case of the United Methodist Church and Catholic Church – declined to specify a position. The National Catholic Committee on Scouting issued a statement describing the membership debate as "difficult and sensitive" but stopping short of any explicit recommendation for how Catholic delegates to the BSA meeting should vote.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced in April that it supports the new proposal, saying the BSA made a good-faith effort to address a complex issue. The Mormons sponsor more Scout units than any other organization, serving about 430,000 of the 2.6 million youth in Scouting.
The United Methodists are the second-largest sponsor, serving about 363,000 youth members; the Catholic Church is No. 3, with a youth membership of about 273,000.
Several regional Scout councils already have declared their position on the membership proposal.
In Tennessee, the Nashville-based Middle Tennessee Council and Jackson-based West Tennessee Area Council said they oppose the proposed change and support the current broad ban on gay youth and adults.
"We are continuing to uphold the standards, beliefs and traditions Scouting has held for over 100 years," said Lee Beaman, board president of the Middle Tennessee Council, which says it serves 35,000 youth and adults.
The day after that announcement, Bill Moser, a longtime Scout leader in Clarksville, Tennessee, announced his resignation, saying he couldn't support a policy that would force openly gay youth out of Scouting when they turned 18.
The Greater New York Councils, which serve about 43,000 Scouts in New York City, is supporting the proposal to accept gay youths, calling it "a positive step forward." It is among the councils – among them the Los Angeles Area Council – that are urging the Scouts to also accept gays as adult leaders.
However, the BSA leadership says no such alternative proposals will be put to a vote at the Grapevine meeting – only the single proposal to lift the ban on gay youth.
If the proposal is approved, the new policy would take effect on Jan. 1, 2014. A task force already has been created to oversee its implementation.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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Protecting Business Innovations Via Copyright
Watch Course Overview: https://youtu.be/mUja4iwbrTE Intellectual property rights (IPR) has a great impact on innovation development and society. In Science, Engineering, and Business, we seek to create wealth through innovation in products, designs, manufacturing processes, and business systems or models. However, innovation leaders often FAIL to benefit from their discoveries and inventions when they are unable to adequately protect those innovations. Learn the basics of copyright, copyright infringement, derivative works/parody and copyright related to software. This course provides learners with an understanding of Copyright law and how it can be used to protect business innovation. The course focus is on protecting innovations with copyright as one of several tools that can be used by companies and individuals to protect creative innovations. In additional to learning about how copyright works in theory, we will also discuss situations in which copyright might not be effective in protecting innovations, and will focus on the legal issues involved from a practical business perspective rather than from a purely legal viewpoint. This course is one part of a four course series focusing on protection of business innovations using copyright, patent, trademark and strategy, and these four courses may be taken in any order that is most beneficial to students interested in learning about protecting innovation. Other courses in the Protecting Business Innovations series: 1. Copyright: https://www.coursera.org/learn/protect-business-innovations-copyright 2. Trademark: https://www.coursera.org/learn/protect-business-innovations-trademark 3. Patent: https://www.coursera.org/learn/protect-business-innovations-patent 4. Strategy: https://www.coursera.org/learn/protect-business-innovations-strategy


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Inflight service seen going too far when passengers on Australian flight told to flush drugs
An Australian airline apologized on Wednesday for a warning a flight attendant gave passengers who might have been flying high that there were drug-sniffer dogs awaiting them at Sydney airport.
Many of the 210 passengers aboard the Jetstar flight from Gold Coast city on Sunday night had attended the Splendour in the Grass weekend music festival at Byron Bay and were returning home.
"We have been told there are sniffer dogs and quarantine officers waiting in the domestic terminal," Sydney's The Daily Telegraph newspaper on Wednesday quoted the attendant as telling passengers via the Airbus A320's public address system.
"If you need to dispose of anything you shouldn't have, we suggest you flush it now," he added.
The newspaper said the warning prompted passengers to rush for the toilets.
Jetstar spokesman Stephen Moynihan confirmed the newspaper report was accurate. He said the public response to the announcement had been "mixed."
The airline said it routinely makes quarantine announcements on such flights that cross state borders.
"The crew member's words were poorly chosen and are plainly at odds with the professional standards we'd expect from our team," Jetstar said in a statement. "We apologize to customers offended by the comments."
Jetstar said it was "addressing the matter with the cabin crew member involved," but did not detail any potential disciplinary action.
One passenger told the newspaper several passengers suddenly made for the toilets with "things clenched in their hands."
"Why would you tip people off about this?" the passenger, who was not named, asked." If they have got something illegal, let them get caught."
But the response on Jetstar's Facebook page was largely positive.
"What a good Samaritan, Jetstar Australia this guy deserves a promotion," Rohit Dwivedi posted.
"Of course you should warn your passengers to help avoid them being humiliated, locked in a cage or fined," Jebediah Cole posted.
Australian Federal Police declined on Wednesday to comment.


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fstatfs(2) [freebsd man page]
STATFS(2) BSD System Calls Manual STATFS(2) NAME
statfs -- get file system statistics LIBRARY
Standard C Library (libc, -lc) SYNOPSIS
#include <sys/param.h> #include <sys/mount.h> int statfs(const char *path, struct statfs *buf); int fstatfs(int fd, struct statfs *buf); DESCRIPTION
The statfs() system call returns information about a mounted file system. The path argument is the path name of any file within the mounted file system. The buf argument is a pointer to a statfs structure defined as follows: typedef struct fsid { int32_t val[2]; } fsid_t; /* file system id type */ /* * filesystem statistics */ #define MFSNAMELEN 16 /* length of type name including null */ #define MNAMELEN 88 /* size of on/from name bufs */ #define STATFS_VERSION 0x20030518 /* current version number */ struct statfs { uint32_t f_version; /* structure version number */ uint32_t f_type; /* type of filesystem */ uint64_t f_flags; /* copy of mount exported flags */ uint64_t f_bsize; /* filesystem fragment size */ uint64_t f_iosize; /* optimal transfer block size */ uint64_t f_blocks; /* total data blocks in filesystem */ uint64_t f_bfree; /* free blocks in filesystem */ int64_t f_bavail; /* free blocks avail to non-superuser */ uint64_t f_files; /* total file nodes in filesystem */ int64_t f_ffree; /* free nodes avail to non-superuser */ uint64_t f_syncwrites; /* count of sync writes since mount */ uint64_t f_asyncwrites; /* count of async writes since mount */ uint64_t f_syncreads; /* count of sync reads since mount */ uint64_t f_asyncreads; /* count of async reads since mount */ uint64_t f_spare[10]; /* unused spare */ uint32_t f_namemax; /* maximum filename length */ uid_t f_owner; /* user that mounted the filesystem */ fsid_t f_fsid; /* filesystem id */ char f_charspare[80]; /* spare string space */ char f_fstypename[MFSNAMELEN]; /* filesystem type name */ char f_mntfromname[MNAMELEN]; /* mounted filesystem */ char f_mntonname[MNAMELEN]; /* directory on which mounted */ }; The flags that may be returned include: MNT_RDONLY The file system is mounted read-only; Even the super-user may not write on it. MNT_NOEXEC Files may not be executed from the file system. MNT_NOSUID Setuid and setgid bits on files are not honored when they are executed. MNT_SYNCHRONOUS All I/O to the file system is done synchronously. MNT_ASYNC No file system I/O is done synchronously. MNT_SOFTDEP Soft updates being done (see ffs(7)). MNT_GJOURNAL Journaling with gjournal is enabled (see gjournal(8)). MNT_SUIDDIR Special handling of SUID bit on directories. MNT_UNION Union with underlying file system. MNT_NOSYMFOLLOW Symbolic links are not followed. MNT_NOCLUSTERR Read clustering is disabled. MNT_NOCLUSTERW Write clustering is disabled. MNT_MULTILABEL Mandatory Access Control (MAC) support for individual objects (see mac(4)). MNT_ACLS Access Control List (ACL) support enabled. MNT_LOCAL The file system resides locally. MNT_QUOTA The file system has quotas enabled on it. MNT_ROOTFS Identifies the root file system. MNT_EXRDONLY The file system is exported read-only. MNT_NOATIME Updating of file access times is disabled. MNT_USER The file system has been mounted by a user. MNT_EXPORTED The file system is exported for both reading and writing. MNT_DEFEXPORTED The file system is exported for both reading and writing to any Internet host. MNT_EXPORTANON The file system maps all remote accesses to the anonymous user. MNT_EXKERB The file system is exported with Kerberos uid mapping. MNT_EXPUBLIC The file system is exported publicly (WebNFS). Fields that are undefined for a particular file system are set to -1. The fstatfs() system call returns the same information about an open file referenced by descriptor fd. RETURN VALUES
Upon successful completion, the value 0 is returned; otherwise the value -1 is returned and the global variable errno is set to indicate the error. ERRORS
The statfs() system call fails if one or more of the following are true: [ENOTDIR] A component of the path prefix of path is not a directory. [ENAMETOOLONG] The length of a component of path exceeds 255 characters, or the length of path exceeds 1023 characters. [ENOENT] The file referred to by path does not exist. [EACCES] Search permission is denied for a component of the path prefix of path. [ELOOP] Too many symbolic links were encountered in translating path. [EFAULT] The buf or path argument points to an invalid address. [EIO] An I/O error occurred while reading from or writing to the file system. The fstatfs() system call fails if one or more of the following are true: [EBADF] The fd argument is not a valid open file descriptor. [EFAULT] The buf argument points to an invalid address. [EIO] An I/O error occurred while reading from or writing to the file system. SEE ALSO
fhstatfs(2) HISTORY
The statfs() system call first appeared in 4.4BSD. BSD
November 1, 2006 BSD


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STAYING TOGETHER–Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant and his wife, Vanessa, attending the skills competition at the NBA basketball All-Star Saturday Night in Dallas on Feb. 13, 2010. (AP Photo/LM Otero, File)
by Greg Beacham
AP Sports Writer
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Kobe and Vanessa Bryant are staying together.
The Los Angeles Lakers superstar and his wife both announced they've called off their divorce Friday on social media.
Shortly after Vanessa posted the news on Instagram, Kobe confirmed it on Facebook less than an hour before the Lakers hosted the Oklahoma City Thunder.
"I am happy to say that Vanessa and I are moving on with our lives together as a family," Bryant wrote. "When the show ends and the music stops, the journey is made beautiful by having that someone to share it with. Thank you all for your support and prayers!"
Vanessa Bryant filed for divorce in December 2011, seeking to end a marriage that began in April 2001 and survived a sexual assault accusation against the five-time NBA champion guard. The Bryants have two daughters, Natalia and Gianna.
But Kobe and Vanessa haven't acted much like a divorcing couple in the past year. Vanessa and the Bryant daughters have attended many Lakers home games, waiting for Bryant to emerge from the Lakers' locker room and leaving Staples Center together.
"We are pleased to announce that we have reconciled," Vanessa posted on Instagram. "Our divorce action will be dismissed. We are looking forward to our future together."
Vanessa Bryant stood by her husband when he was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman in Colorado in 2003, saying Kobe Bryant was only guilty of "the mistake of adultery." A year after the accusation, prosecutors dropped the charges because the woman did not want to go ahead with a trial.
Bryant is the fifth-leading scorer in NBA history in his 17th season with the Lakers, who drafted him in 1996. He is leading the NBA in scoring this season, and is very likely to play in his 15th NBA All-Star game next month in Houston.
Bryant met his wife at a music video shoot in 1999, when Vanessa Laine was 18 years old. They became engaged six months later.


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the moon
beyond this peak
is not my companion on this hill
it must return
to cast its light on the floating world
Doing what we do here is practising poverty. Mendicants, beggars, floating forms, as we sit, Thusness is reflected. Don't fool yourself thinking it is yours. Don't believe you have got it, and it can be spoken about, owned and tagged, put into a treasure box. Of course, a free heart can sing it so well. In fact awakening and words can be one. But the clinging is extra. You see Dogen in the end of the Fukanzazengi speaks of a treasure box but not of a box that closes...Listen, he says the treasure house will open of itself for you to use it as you wish and of course, this you is not anymore the you you are used to, the you that uses things, the you as opposed to me and them, box is open, self is open and everything else has vanished. The moon cannot be known,awakening is not something to toy with, it is the selfless action, the subtle doing of undoing. It cannot be self conscious. The floating world, ephemeral, full of vanity and deception is dressed in moonlight, the very transient and fragile and broken world around you is touched by this radiance, unconditionnal radiance, faceless, flowing everywhere. Destitutes, filth, darkness: all corners are lifted and unveiled. It returns there because it belongs there. The floating world is nothing but the body of the true Tathagata. For filthy eyes, it is just soiled and trashed. For naked eyes, it is perfect, round and clear.


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Published September 03, 2013Associated Press
FILE – This Feb. 22,2013 file photo shows Two heavily damaged homes on the beach in Mantoloking, N.J., from Superstorm Sandy. (AP Photo)
Man-made global warming may further lessen the likelihood of the freak atmospheric steering currents that last year shoved Superstorm Sandy due west into New Jersey, a new study says.
But don't celebrate a rare beneficial climate change prediction just yet. The study's authors said the once-in-700-years path was only one factor in the massive $50 billion killer storm. They said other variables such as sea level rise and stronger storms will worsen with global warming and outweigh changes in steering currents predicted by the study's computer models.
"Sandy was an extremely unusual storm in several respects and pretty freaky. And some of those things that make it more freaky may happen less in the future," said Columbia University atmospheric scientist Adam Sobel, co-author of a new study on Sandy. But Sobel quickly added, "There's nothing to get complacent about coming out of this research."
The study published Tuesday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences looks at the giant atmospheric steering currents, such as the jet stream. A spate of recent and controversial studies has highlighted unusual kinks and meanders in the jet stream, linking those to extreme weather and loss of sea ice in the Arctic. This new study looks only at the future and sees a lessening of some of that problematic jet stream swerving, clashing with the other studies in a scientific debate that continues.
Both camps agree on what happened with the weird steering that shoved Sandy, a late season hurricane that merged with a conventional storm into a massive hybrid, into New Jersey. The jet stream plunged in an odd way. A high pressure system off the coast of Canada and Greenland blocked the storm from moving east, as most do.
That high pressure block now happens once or twice a year in August, September and October. Computer models show the jet stream will move further north, so the "giant blob of high pressure" will be even less frequent next century, said study lead author Elizabeth Barnes of Colorado State University.
But Barnes and Sobel said because so many other factors are involved this doesn't mean fewer storms hitting the New York region. This is only one path; storms usually come from the south instead of from the east like Sandy.
Scientists agree that future storms will be slightly stronger because of global warming and that sea level is rising faster than researchers once thought, Sobel said. Those factors likely will overwhelm the predicted change in steering currents, he said.
Rutgers University climate scientist Jennifer Francis, one of the major proponents of the jet-stream-is-changing theory, said she doesn't see the jet stream becoming stronger and moving north as Barnes says the models predict. Her work and others points to more Sandy-like storms, especially because there seem to be more late-season tropical storms.
"The matter is not settled," said Pennsylvania State University climate scientist Michael Mann.
via Study: Future storms may be less likely to follow Sandy's path | Fox News.


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About Me
Whether you're looking to buy, build or refinance your home, our experienced mortgage professionals are here to help. Here at Fairway Independent Mortgage Corporation, we offer a variety of loan options that can help you achieve homeownership with the speed and service you deserve. Plus, our mortgage professionals are dedicated to finding the right loan with great rates, terms and costs to meet your specific needs.


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Pier is a content management system was originally written by Lukas Renggli.
Some others contribute in various ways: Dale Henrichs, Damien Cassou, Damien Pollet, Julian Fitzell, Keith Hodges, Matthias Berth, Michel Bany, Niall Ross, Nick Ager, Nik Lutz, Philippe Marshall, Ramon Leon, and Tudor Gîrba.
The logo was created by Samuel Morello.
The site is hosted on a server of netstyle.ch.


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Sunday, October 12, 2008
Old School Building Blocks
In any case, I'm not really interested in the specific topic, since I no longer play 3e. However, I think Matt's general advice is quite excellent, which is why I'm borrowing parts of it here, with apologies to him. My goal is simply to lay down some basic guidelines on mechanical/methodological elements that contribute powerfully to playing D&D à l'école ancien.
1. Magic items should never be available for purchase. Instead, they must always be won from opponents or discovered by exploring the hidden places of the world. In a similar vein, magic should never be a substitute for technology. Outside of the PCs, their allies, and their enemies -- and perhaps not even then -- magic and magic items should be rare.
2. Always award XP for gold. The reason for this is that it makes acquiring loot, not killing foes, the primary focus of dungeon delving. Once the players understand this, they might begin to behave more sneakily and realize that discretion is sometimes the better part of valor. XP should still be awarded for defeating enemies, of course, but it should pale in comparison to the XP gained from treasure.
3. Keep characters poor by any means you can. AD&D used training costs as a way to ensure that the PCs never had much money, as they rose in power. OD&D has no such mechanism, but I'd consider adding something like it. I know of several referees who only give XP for gold that's spent. This is a nifty idea, as it rather nicely emulates the way that Conan or Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser would go on binges of spending after they'd completed a particularly successful adventure -- only to wind up poor again in short order. Either way, PCs should rarely have a full coin purse.
4. Make the acquisition of new magic-user spells difficult. They should rarely be available for outright purchase; when they are, they should cost ridiculous amounts of gold. Otherwise, the MU must win his new spells by finding scrolls or spellbooks. The point is to keep the magic-user's repertoire limited, both to encourage creative thinking and give him yet more reasons to go adventuring.
5. Encourage map-making by presenting environments where having a map is a must. D&D is as much a game of exploration as it is of heroic exploits. I've said before that planning a dungeon expedition is a bit like planning a safari or archeological dig. Having to draw a map in order to avoid becoming lost or suffering some horrible fate is essential to old school D&D. Yes, this means the game will run more slowly, but that's an important part of the old school gaming experience. This goes for wilderness exploration as well as dungeon exploration.
6. Sometimes there are no answers. That is, there are mysteries that will remain such. Not everything has an explanation, at least not an explanation available to the PCs. It's important to remind players that there are many things beyond their characters' ken.
7. All politics is local. Old school gaming is not about world-spanning, "epic "plots and cabals. There is no single Dark Lord whose machinations are behind the rise of evil in the world. Indeed, if you feel the compulsion to talk about the Big Bad Evil Guy of your campaign -- or, worse, to use the abbreviation BBEG -- seek help immediately. Likewise, there are no large organizations of do-gooders who oppose them. Instead, everything happens on a much smaller scale, with events being confined to (at most) a few hexes on the map.
8. High-level characters are few and rare and generally have no interest in helping -- or opposing -- the PCs. They have better things to do with their time.
These are some very broad strokes. I have some more specific advice I might dispense in a future post, but these ought to keep people busy arguing for a while.
55 comments:
OK, let me play the devil's advocate here with (2).
(2) giving treasure for XP always seemed weird to me. It's like rewarding people for getting what is already a reward. Why double the reward like that? XP should be rewarded on the basis of bold and skillful play, rather than on the basis of how much cash the PC's have on hand by the end of the adventure. (Or, by the way, on the basis of who landed a killing blow!)
After reading James' blog for a while, I think I'm beginning to see the error of my ways. But what do you guys say to this argument?I can see both sides of the argument about no. 2, but I think James made a hell of a case for it here.
Anyway, this is an excellent post, totally relevant to my interests...
But 8 just seems a little odd to me.
No dark lords with aspirations of world conquest ever? That always seemed like a fantasy staple to me, and frankly D&D has always struck me as a game about archetypes. The tropes and cliches are there for a reason and you oughtn't mess with that (part of my beef with 4e).XP should be rewarded on the basis of bold and skillful play, rather than on the basis of how much cash the PC's have on hand by the end of the adventure.
Getting your hands on the treasure and getting out the dungeon with it is my baseline metric for "bold and skillful play". And as a DM I like an objective measure, even an indirect and rough one, simply because then I don't have to adjudicate the difference between 'bold' and 'foolhardy but effective'.I think you make a good point here Jeff; what we're talking about are objective measures of skillful play. (No doubt there will be intangibles that we'll want to reward from time to time. But we're asking what's the basic and abiding objective metric.)
So it's really a debate about what we encourage our players to think of as success. And then here's the old school argument: If, respecting the roots of the game, we want to encourage a sword and sorcery pulp feel, then the largest part of success is looking out for number one and getting your hands on the booty. If we want our players to operate on the principles of, say, the world of Conan, then this is how we'll assign experience.- AnonymousOctober 12, 2008 at 2:07 PM
I'm going to suggest heresy here: I think that 4e could be easily and successfully adapted for this style of play.
The way encounters are built and treasures are awarded in 4e would really only need minor tweaks to adjust to award XP for treasure acquired or GP spent. Restricting spells and items is the DMs prerogative, regardless of what the rulebooks suggest.The really difficult part would be training your players to overcome the assumptions that are built into the system, but assuming you have a fairly mature group of gamers, this shouldn't be terribly difficult.
Actually, I think the biggest hurdle to this sort of play is that most players I meet don't want to play old-school style. No dark lords with aspirations of world conquest ever?
As Jeff said in the first comment, any of these principles can be set aside if you do so for good reason. However, the Dark Lord thing isn't really that common in pulp fantasy and I don't recall noteworthy instances of it in D&D until Dragonlance, though I might be missing something obvious.Actually, I think the biggest hurdle to this sort of play is that most players I meet don't want to play old-school style.
That certainly is a major hurdle, to be sure. I also think, in the case of 4e, there are other issues I didn't address, but which Matt did in his original essay, because I'm not pitching my building blocks to a 3e/4e audience. I think the a number of 3e/4e character classes would need to be altered or disallowed entirely, for example, and the role played by skills would need to be overhauled. I'm not saying either thing couldn't be done, but it'd be a lot of work to do well.Regarding point 1 I would add one additional possibility for acquiring magic items: trade.
Not talking about magic item swap meets so much as wheeling and dealing with high-powered NPCs. The local wizard might be willing to enchant a sword or part with a wand of lightning in exchange for a spellbook or staff said to be lost in the local crypts, for example.
Not something to overuse, obviously, but I think it fits the old-school style of play, so long as the players are free to refuse or cheat the wizard, and vice versa...This is one of the reasons I keep coming back around here. Sometimes it's just like we're thinking on the same vibe.
These are all points that I've pretty much adopted across the board without even knowing of Finch's original post.
Point #2 took me a little while to get my head wrapped around, but once I did, I can see why the XP for treasure thing works. Point #3 is going to be an ongoing concern with the players, but after exploring some options, I'm still not sure how I'm going to impliment it quite yet. But that's cart before the horse at the moment.
#7 is very much in play. I prefer the byzantine politics of many smaller cabals and despot to some Big Bad Evil.I did say Dark Lords weren't all that common, not that they didn't exist. :) Xaltotun certainly does seem to be tending toward the high fantasy Dark Lord archetype, it's true, but he's used as a one-off villain, so he never has the chance to fulfill his possible destiny.
That said, your larger point stands. It's not that there aren't powerful evil guys in pulp fantasy; it's just that there are many of then. Pulp fantasy is "multi-polar" on the subject of villainy.#7. I understand your point, but it's overstated.
No Big Bad Evil Guy? What about Iuz the Evil? A 2nd edition Tolkienesque invention, probably!
Or Lolth, the Queen of the Demonweb Pits? A fancy Dragonlancey big-hair cheesy dark lady for sure!
No global cabals? What about the Scarlet Brotherood? Are they into petty local politicking? Or the Slavelords? I guess their influence did not extend beyond Hommlet.
As far as Greyhawk is concerned, at least, I'd rather say there are MANY big bad guys. But their plots are not necessarily limited in scope.Not that you point isn't valid, but the inclusion of Sauron in the Middle Earth tales is a powerful model for many people.
True, but Tolkien isn't a significant influence on OD&D beyond the importation of a few monsters. That's not to deny that his stories and ideas aren't there, lurking in the background, but they weren't primary in Gygax's mind when he created and promoted his take on the game.As far as Greyhawk is concerned, at least, I'd rather say there are MANY big bad guys. But their plots are not necessarily limited in scope.
I would argue that, in Gygaxian Greyhawk, there are no Dark Lords with worldwide scope to their plans. That changed with From the Ashes, when both Iuz and the Scarlet Brotherhood were elevated to "epic" status they didn't possess in the original folio or boxed set.
(Lolth is more complex, owing to the convoluted history of the GDQ series and Gygax's original plans for it.)Excellent points and I concur that they work together to form the humble beginnings I prefer in D&D.
Rare Magic Items, XP for Gold, Hungry Characters, Scarce Spell Knowledge, MAPS!, The Unexplained (and often better left that way), Play focused on the immediate (and allowed to grow), 8th Level IS high!
As stated, each is not a hard and fast rule, but a good way to start your campaign. I find it's best to start with this approach and let the play take the campaign where it might. For example, a campaign that sees hundreds and hundreds of hours of play will likely push many of these guidelines beyond their starting point.
~ShamI love the bit about acquiring magic-user spells. The Wizard in my D&D 3.5 game recently said, "We need to battle more wizards. It's the only way I can get more spells."
Even thought it's contrary to the spirit of 3.5, I really like the idea of Wizards scraping, scratching and searching for new and mysterious magic."XP should be rewarded on the basis of bold and skillful play" -- Jeff Rients. I agree 100% percent, but rewarding gold is just... well... silly. I can remember once too many times in 1E that my players would argue for more xp based on gold found or stolen from illegal/criminal behavior of the PCs. And then money would all go towards training. It was a waste of player effort. Instead, I would suggest awarding XP for effort and success. Killing things doesn't always award XP, nor does gold. Instead, XP might be based on chunks of the adventure completed. e.g. clearing level 1; defeating the Cabal; discovering the _real_ identity of the Duke; successfully evading capture by Army of the Dead, etc. I've personally always hated monster (or loot) based XP systems but have begrudgingly stayed with it only so that the players could see the incremental progress in "real time" so to speak.
@ Asmodean66 : /agreed. 4E is extremely flexible. Rituals, for example, are a rare find in my game - as is "masterwork" gear and magic loot in general. I've always hated the majik store that was introduced in 3E. Just doesn't happen in my game.
@ James Maliszewski : "because I'm not pitching my building blocks to a 3e/4e audience." Unfortunate; but we're here anyway =P. You also said "the role played by skills would need to be overhauled" -- yes. /agreed. The 4E "skill challenge" idea is total crap for immersion; unless maybe I'm misunderstanding how it is supposed to be used (which we dont).
nice post. another one added to my notebook, TYVM.Greetings, James... long overdue first post to a generally excellent blog. Thanks; and for this present copy-forward. :)
What Jeff said. Generally good points for a particular type of "old school", but not cast in stone.
Guidelines, yes, but to adhere to these as the quintessence of "D&D à l'école ancien" might be pushing the envelope a bit much, IMHO, given that this still does read more as a perceived wishlist, projected back from more recent times, vs. the actuality of some of the original campaigns (well before my time ;)
For a start, the concept of magic items being "rare" simply doesn't tally with a browse through Greyhawk and high level characters there were aplenty there.
On a personal level, keeping characters poor is an imperfect solution to a broken economy/worldview. Fixing the economy and tweaking to a degree is a preferred "solution" to railroading using whatever deus ex machina may be required to fit that Conan/Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser plotline dynamic. That's possibly even less desirable (in my book) than introducing the "Dark Lord" (or worse, in the original Greyhawk given Lovecraftian influences ^^ ) as an overarching evil.
(Oh, and "Amen!" to #6... :)
True, but Tolkien isn't a significant influence on OD&D beyond the importation of a few monsters. That's not to deny that his stories and ideas aren't there, lurking in the background, but they weren't primary in Gygax's mind when he created and promoted his take on the game.
I agree with that when talking about OD&D, but pretty much everything else after that has a greater Tolkien influence, IMO, especially when we look at the typical class lineup.For a start, the concept of magic items being "rare" simply doesn't tally with a browse through Greyhawk and high level characters there were aplenty there.
I'm not sure where this persistent notion that the original Greyhawk campaign was stocked with uber-characters or dripping with magic items comes from. A quick browse through The Rogues Gallery, for example, would quickly disavow anyone of that notion. The highest level PCs from that campaign were generally around 12-14, with Mordenkainen and Robilar being slightly higher. Most possessed no more than 8-10 magic items of any significance. And these were all PCs played regularly over many years, which makes them quite unusual, especially when you compare them even to the leaders of nations.I agree with that when talking about OD&D, but pretty much everything else after that has a greater Tolkien influence, IMO, especially when we look at the typical class lineup.
I'm speaking primarily of OD&D here, although, truth be told, I think only the Ranger owes much to Tolkien class-wise.Unfortunate; but we're here anyway =P.
I'm glad to have you here! I stated that mostly because I wanted to be clear that 95+% of my posts pertain primarily to OD&D/AD&D and are thus couched in the vocabulary/style of those games. Were I to focus more on the WotC editions of the game, I'd probably phrase things differently or fixate on other matters, such as, for example, the abomination known as the cleric's spell list in 3e :)Keep in mind that my original essay was addressed to an audience relatively unfamiliar to old school play, and wasn't intended to be encyclopaedic. Rather, it was an attempt to nail down the major defining points. These weren't written as unbreakable rules for old school play, they were written to identify where the tent-pegs of it are located. I've broken every single one of these rules, myself.
As to awarding xp for treasure, I definitely stand by that. Awarding xp for specific mission goals I agree with ... but there's a huge danger in trying to replace gp=xp as a general rule. If you try and make "results" into a general rule, then you have re-routed the game into a situation where the DM directs player activity instead of giving the players a completely open playing field. I don't have time to go into it deeply, but consider that "gold" is basically everywhere. The players know what they're looking for. DM-awarded xp is given out when the players anticipated the DM's view of the adventure. What if I don't want to rescue the princess - if I can get more money playing her ransom off against two rival bidders? Is the DM suddenly going to shift the awards based on my unanticipated plan? Probably, but I think you can see where the problem lies here even though this example could be easily repaired by the DM.
Big bad evil guy: I meant a Sauron. The fact that Iuz, the Scarlet Brotherhood and Lolth all exist in the same campaign illustrates my point. There's no single evil source there - there are several. All bad guys plan to take over the world; it's a job requirement. There's only a problem old-school wise if all evil in the campaign boringly ties back to one ultra-bad guy in his fortress of evil solitude. This is railroading by omission - there's only one real adventure here (unless the players decide to ignore alignment-wars entirely).> I'm not sure where this persistent notion that the original Greyhawk campaign was stocked with uber-characters or dripping with magic items comes from.
Not so much a "notion" as my reading of the original notes for Greyhawk and others, as played in by EGG & co.
Will that suffice?
Besides, there's a /large/ gap between between "rare" and "dripping". :)
Those abbreviated Rouges Gallery examples aren't exactly "dripping", perhaps, but neither is magic excessively "rare" there IIRC. (I know I should have a copy of /that/ at my fingertips to cross-check, but will have to apologise and use 3.30am or some-such sad excuse, sorry!).
d.@ Matt : "but consider that "gold" is basically everywhere. The players know what they're looking for." -- ahh, I see... the gold is a proxy for effort/success. It provides a scalable metric that allows the players to decide where their effort should be put. Hmmm... I still remember that when I used to run 1E games this xp=gold would often drive campaigns toward otherwise completely evil endeavors.
On the other hand, if players are simply prevented from knowing _how_ the DM calculates XP, then this is all a moot point from their perspective, right? I mean - if you start awarding XP for gold, instead of kills, but the bottom line is the same - then it doesn't matter. The issue with gold=xp is how the mechanic of doling out XP works and whether or not the mechanic itself affects player decisions. Maybe the key here would be to simply say "I have a system, but i'm not telling you how it works" this completely frees them to decide their character's actions based on the character's concept. Isn't this the real goal of roleplaying? Or am I missing something?Will that suffice?
Of course!
That said, as Matt Finch notes above, none of these building blocks can't be bent or twisted as appropriate to one's campaign circumstances; it's the general thrust of them that's important. I'd still contend that the original Lake Geneva campaign was not one at all comparable to many published settings in terms of NPC power or the prevalence of magic items, but I am willing to admit error if that should be the case. Fortunately, Mike Mornard has agreed to be interviewed for the blog sometime soon, so I'll be sure to ask him this very question.> That said, as Matt Finch notes above, none of these building blocks can't be bent or twisted as appropriate to one's campaign circumstances; it's the general thrust of them that's important.
*nods*. Agreed on that, James, and indeed a useful list to keep tabs on the situation in general.
As with the aforementioned concept of "challenging the presumption that the characters have a defined narrative pathway" which I'd also rope in as a "building block" whilst others might prefer to run their games more within more familiar narrative territory, yet still be far from entering videogame-RPGing mode.
Looking forward to that interview and listening to Mike's perspective.
Still scope for a degree of relativism, perhaps, on what "rare" might mean vs. "the least... or the most/worst... one has seen"?
Would also be interesting to know how that compares from a player/DM experience (Rob Kuntz, say) vs. those others who have studied the original material analytically such as Allan/grodog.
David.(aside/part-OT) Of course, magic items might be rarer under particular circumstances, even if they weren't to begin with... e.g. http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/reply/21937/#reply-21937
Tenser (as a neutral wiz before turning goody-goddy) had red drgaons and was always complaining about fried magic items and massive lumps of recooling gold and silver which had been melted from their breath weapons. EGG loved telling him about all of the various items he'd fried as ernie sifted through the charred remains (whether they were magical or not, Ernie never knew), and in detail... :)
Heh, heh... ^^>> I can remember once too many times in 1E that my players would argue for more xp based on gold found or stolen from illegal/criminal behavior of the PCs.
Conan, Fafhrd and Grey Mouser, Cugel... sounds about right. :D
>>Instead, I would suggest awarding XP for effort and success.
This example sounds like a bit of railroading and GM heavy-handedness. "What does the GM find important?" rather than what the players wanted to do.
"XP for gold" is something I like because
A- it allows for amoral behavior without creating psychopaths amongst PCs.
B- Is an objective standard. Sure, the referee decides where the gold is, but the players can decide to chase the gold or not and know if their activities that session are things that advance them, or not.I like XP for gold. One has to remember that D&D is a game. Game rules do not necessarily have to be wholly logical in the "real world."
Contrary to people who say things like, "I like [such and such game] because the rules fade into the background...", I actually think that in a game the rules shouldn't be viewed as "background". They are part of the game, and influence how games go. But I guess my philosophy isn't the same as many other peoples. To me D&D isn't about "telling a story", it's about playing a fantasy game.- AnonymousOctober 13, 2008 at 9:27 AM
gp=xp "gives the players a completely open playing field."
Disagree: any token, including coins, is a sign of DM steering; cf Mario/other side-scrollers. Also, it throws the game into a deliberately acquisitive direction. It worked like a cancer in the D&D campaigns I played in. Conan and Fafhrd are fun characters and they definitely prized gold, but the money=success/greed is good formula sits uncomfortably with a wide variety of other literary ideas of heroism. We don't care, you say, this is pulp fantasy. Well, some of pulp fantasy: Flash Gordon and John Carter weren't in it for the cash, and gp=xp makes it hard to make other goals (already mostly unfamiliar to many of us out hear ITRW) attractive.
Big bad evil guy: Agree, but mostly from a mechanical perspective. A BBEG is a signal that the world has an end - what will you do when Sauron is dead? THe Flash Gordon response is "resurrect Ming," but this gets you quickly into soap opera territory. As for all evil leading back to one source, well, that's the devil, right, and he shows up in many guises... - AnonymousOctober 13, 2008 at 9:32 AM
addendum (like that other comment wasn't long enough): IME RPG campaigns tend to be remarkably anti-heroic things. I think a lot of the story-first new school gaming comes out of a desire among some players to tell heroic stories, coupled with the tendency for players almost never to act heroically, in a literary sense. Xp for gp tends to accentuate this anti-heroic slant. I even wonder if it hasn't played a significant role in tilting the whole hobby in an amoral, anti-heroic direction.
ReplyDelete (Leaping into the "XP for gold" debate....)
I've always thought of gold as its own reward - what player-characters do with it is where the reward comes in. That having been said, I've played in campaigns where gold was used for XP - and often the referee was fairly miserly (one of them being Michael Mornard, so you know of whom I speak). Not too surprisingly, we valued every single coin we came across. I now tend to think of this as the monetary equivalent of the debate over how many magic items to have floating around - not too many! I think it's worth noting that Gary was in favor of limiting both magic and treasure, and finding ways to remove them if things got out of whack (see White Dwarf #7 and The Strategic Review Vol. 2 No. 2): "By requiring players to work for experience, to earn their treasure, means that the opportunity to retain interest will remain. It will also mean that the rules will fit the existing situation, a dragon, balrog, or whatever will be a fearsome challenge rather than a pushover."
I have no difficulty with a system that provides experience on the basis of what each class is supposed to do; in my friend Paul's campaign, each class got a set of specific rewards, and it worked out pretty well. Interestingly enough, only thieves got experience for gold. :)I dont know if I can agree with all that. Its seems contradictory.
Give XP for gold looted. Then proceeds to tell you to keep the players poor and hard to get items and spells.
Wouldnt it be better to, instead, give the players some focus to spend their gold and/or invest it land/buildings, whatever? Or buys spells? or items? Or cost to invest in gaining them?" A quick browse through The Rogues Gallery, for example, would quickly disavow anyone of that notion."
Gary Gygax, at least, is on record as saying that the "real" stats for Mordenkainen have never been published. The version in Rogue's Gallery is not the one played in the Greyhawk campaign.To me D&D isn't about "telling a story", it's about playing a fantasy game.
It's a fine distinction, to be sure, but it's an important one and, not surprisingly, one I agree with. In some ways, I regret that we use the blanket term "roleplaying games" to cover a very wide variety of different games that are only vaguely related to one another. I sometimes suspect that many of the problems people have in understanding old school RPGs stem from a confusion about exactly what "RPG" means in the context of these older games.I even wonder if it hasn't played a significant role in tilting the whole hobby in an amoral, anti-heroic direction.
I'd be amazed if that were the case. The number of gamers who actually used and understood the whole gold = XP set-up seems to be vanishingly small. I do, however, think it's quite possible that many new school trends arise out of the fact that playing D&D as written is often a terribly unheroic experience. Dissatisfaction with this is almost certainly the genesis of many subsequent games.The version in Rogue's Gallery is not the one played in the Greyhawk campaign.
Indeed it's not. My point wasn't so much that Rogues Gallery presented old school notables as they were in their own campaigns so much as presented them as models for what high-level PCs ought to be like. I know, as a young man, seeing a 16th-level MU with Gary's name attached to it having only 8 or 10 magic items had a profound impact on my own sense of what a high-level PC ought to be like."I don't think I want to give the players any focus on how to spend their gold. They should be coming up with their own ideas."
Except if you look at the list, #2 and #3 are direct contradictions, and #4and #1 are out as ways to get them to spend it.
Further #3 seems to imply you should give foucs to spending it...or bsaically draining it off.Except if you look at the list, #2 and #3 are direct contradictions, and #4 and #1 are out as ways to get them to spend it.
Noting a contradiction isn't the same as offering a criticism. So what if these goals are contradictory? A good contradiction creates interesting tensions in the dynamics of the game.
And #4 isn't "obviously out" by a long shot. Let's look at what James says again:
4. Make the acquisition of new magic-user spells difficult. They should rarely be available for outright purchase; when they are, they should cost ridiculous amounts of gold.
So getting the spell you want might require travel (which costs money), paying informants (which costs money, especially if the services of a sage are required), arranging an introduction to the wizard who possesses the spell (which may require bribes), and perhaps expensive gifts to soften up the wizards before the reaction roll dice are thrown. Assuming a good reaction only then might the PC earn the priviledge of purchasing the spell, for which he will pay out the nose. And you're telling me this isn't a good option for draing PC resources?With the exception of perhpas once or twice in a character's experience should they have enough coin and money to walk into Metropolis "X" and commission the Ungulating Sword of Doom from the local wizard/artisan/blacksmith with a spear in a river.
Eventually a goal or a want is such a driving force for a character/player, that designed or accidental money sinks thrown in their way will fail to deter them.
As a DM over the years the thing that always had me nervous was the player who slowly and surely over time hoarded every CP and EP they could find and didn't spend it. They eventually got smart enough to not tip their hand to me what it was they were looking to buy until they were ready and felt they had more than enough money.
And having THEIR treasure chests raided and stolen was a great way to earn animonsity both in game and RL. Chuckle. Even bad guys have adventuring parties.Yeah. The christmas tree effect was always a problem in some editions.
The fundamental choice is always between keeping character inherently "weak" and externalizing their power in the form of magic items or making characters inherently "strong" and either downplaying the importance of magic items or risking the possibility of their being even more powerful with their magic items.
My personal preference is to keep characters inherently weak and be stingy with magic items. This seems closer to the Gygaxian Methodology and it's a much better natural fit for long-term campaign play.- AnonymousOctober 14, 2008 at 10:11 AM
many of the problems people have in understanding old school RPGs stem from a confusion about exactly what "RPG" means in the context of these older games.
I think (and humbly suggest) that this point demands a post of its own: we know that role playing means different things to different people, and we acknowledge that Gary and others always said "as long as you're having fun you're doing it right," but I think there's a particular conception of roleplaying, that marries game and play-acting but isn't quite married to either one, that's characteristic of the old school. Since those days these strands have been pulled apart (into gameist/narrativist and many other directions): I'd love to know how you think they fit successfully together. What happens when the BBEG is dead?
Well, my friend, that's when a great campaign comes to a close. In my opinion it is important for a campaign to have such a close, instead of rattling on and slowly fading away like some mediocre fantasy-soap.
As such I'm not opposed to BBEGs per-se, but they should be introduced as part of a campaign, not in the general setting description.3e works ok without XP for gold, as long as the GM allows PC wealth to deviate from the wealth-by-level chart. This is because PCs who gain gold and thus have more than standard wealth-by-level will have a much easier time in defeating bad guys and generally staying alive than will PCs who are high level but poor.
That said, IM3eC I only allow sale or purchase of stuff up to 3,000 gp; so you can buy a +1 sword but you can't sell that super-weapon for 100,000gp. One of the benefits is that it maintains GM control and lets me keep PCs balanced against each other.
In a previous campaign I allowed free buy/sale. The result was that if I gave out a cool weapon to keep the Fighter's power up, the Wizard player insisted it be sold and funds distributed amongst the party. Result - Fighter stayed weak, Wizard got even more powerful.


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Ladner's James Paxton helps the Peoria Javelinas to an Arizona Fall League (AFL) championship.
Padres reliever Kevin Quackenbush struck out Jake Marisnick in the bottom of the ninth and the Peoria Javelinas began celebrating their Arizona Fall League championship Saturday. But then they, the Salt River Rafters and the 3,411 fans on hand at Scottsdale Stadium had to wait for official confirmation of the 4-3 victory.
The reason for the delay? An official protest -- certainly a first in the annals of the AFL -- over an appeal play in the bottom of the seventh inning. Nationals outfielder Brian Goodwin led off that inning for the Rafters with a triple. D-backs shortstop Chris Owings lofted a fly ball to right field, Goodwin tagged and scored with what appeared to be the tying run.
That's when things got a big chaotic. Catcher Mike Zunino stepped on home plate and the home-plate umpire signaled safe. But then the Javelinas appealed to third and Goodwin was ruled out for leaving early, keeping the score 4-3. The protest wasn't about the ruling over Goodwin's departure, but rather the multiple calls, first at home, then at third.
"There have been times it's been overturned," Salt River manager Matt Williams said, adding that members of his coaching staff told him they'd been involved in games where protests had changed an on-field decision. "I felt an obligation to place it under protest, to get an explanation. If they do [overturn it], we're still playing."
Once it was explained that a defensive team is allowed to appeal the same play at multiple positions, AFL director Steve Cobb was able to announce to the crowd and both dugouts that the protest had been denied and that the Javelinas were indeed champions, allowing Peoria to renew its celebration.
Zunino went 3-for-5 with a pair of RBIs, Padres prospect Rymer Liriano went 3-for-3 and Nate Roberts of the Twins also had three hits. Reds speedster Billy Hamilton went 2-for-5 before having to leave the game in the eighth after crashing into the right-center-field wall.
Even though he scuffled a bit near the end of the Fall League season, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Hamilton was the catalyst for the Javelinas. The center fielder led off the game with a triple off Salt River (and Nationals) right-hander Ryan Perry and came home on Zunino's single. The Javelinas scored again to give them a 2-0 lead before the Rafters even came to the plate.
Hamilton contributed again in the top of the second as Peoria extended its lead. After fellow Reds prospect Didi Gregorius singled with one out, Hamilton pulled out one of his specialties, a drag bunt from the left side, for a hit that moved Gregorius to second before he came around to score on another Zunino RBI hit. Nate Freiman's two-out single gave Peoria a 4-1 lead in the third.
"It felt great," said Zunino, the No. 3 pick in the 2012 Draft. "It's been a long year, but this is a great group of guys and I was happy I was able to contribute."
The Rafters weren't done after Rockies catcher Lars Davis' sacrifice fly that scored Carlos Sanchez of the White Sox in the second. They plated two more in the bottom of the third, both with two outs. Sanchez started it out with a single and then the AFL stolen-base leader -- that's right, Hamilton didn't top the Fall League in that category -- swiped second. Rockies outfielder Kent Matthes singled him in to chase Reds starter Tim Crabbe. Lefty Jay Johnson was brought in to face the left-handed-hitting Corey Dickerson of the Rockies, but Dickerson stayed on the ball and laced an RBI double to right, just beyond the reach of Padres prospect Liriano, to bring Matthes home from first and make it a one-run game.
Salt River had multiple opportunities to knot things up, starting off both the seventh and eighth innings with leadoff triples. First came Goodwin's triple in the seventh and the ensuing nullified sacrifice fly. In the eighth, it was another Nats prospect, Anthony Rendon, who tripled to deep right-center. But when Sanchez's dribbler was fielded by Reds reliever Curtis Partch, he flipped to Zunino to nail Rendon at the plate.
"That's the toughest play for a catcher, the ball to right field," Zunino said of the Goodwin play. "I can't watch the runner; I have to stay on the ball. After the throw came in, we weren't sure what to do. I threw to third, they threw back to me, I threw it back to third."
"It was worth a shot," Williams said of the protest. "In the end, we had a guy on third with no one out twice and couldn't [get him in]. That's the story."
On Rendon's triple, Hamilton slammed against the wall trying to make the play, forcing him from the game. He stayed on the ground for a long time before slowly walking off the field. In the end, it appeared to be back spasms and nothing more serious.
"It's sore, but I'm OK," said Hamilton, who is playing the outfield for the first time this fall, moving from shortstop. "There aren't walls when you play shortstop, but I better get used to that."
Saturday's championship game ended what was a very long run for all of the AFL's prospects. Zunino began his junior year at Florida in February. After 66 games there, he played in 44 more after signing with the Mariners. The AFL championship was his 20th game with Peoria.
For Hamilton, Saturday was game No. 150 in a season that really started in January when he started strength and conditioning work. It included 581 at-bats and 204 stolen-base attempts. Always high energy -- it's pretty evident that he wouldn't have pulled up short of the center-field wall even if he could have -- the future leadoff hitter had to finally admit that it was a good time for a break.
"I'm tired," Hamilton said with a smile. "I need to get home and rest up. I've got a long year ahead of me and I want to be ready."
During the AFL season Paxton was 1-1 with a 5.68 ERA. He struck out 16 through 12.2 innings of work.
Story Courtesy of Jonathan Mayo / MLB.com
Photo Courtesy of Christian Petersen


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