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Royal Enfield Unit Construction(UCE) Engine vs Royal Enfield Cast Iron (CI) Engine!
Every other day, I answer comments on ICB where people eager to get onto the Royal Enfield bandwagon have one question that never seems to go away. Which is better, Royal Enfield Unit Construction Engine or the Royal Enfield Cast Iron Engine? Now, here's the answer, it is the Unit Construction Engine that is better. Period. And If you really are interested to know why it is so, you must read ahead.
Here's a quick comparison and if you really want to understand more about the intricacies of the different Royal engines, you need to read the post below this comparison. However, for a quick comparo, click on the images to enlarge.
I own, rather owned a 2009 Royal Enfield Bullet Machismo 500LB which I bought mainly because of it being the most powerful Royal Enfields around at that time and age. I also bought the AVL engined Bullet because it was better than the cast iron engine in terms of reliability as well as performance. In due time, I began working on my Bullet on my own. But the 500cc AVL Lean Burn still required a lot of maintenance, especially if ridden hard. So, here is Royal Enfield's latest solution, the Unit Construction Engine.
First of all let me explain what the UCE is all about. Previously, the Bullets, both cast iron engine and AVL LB engines used to come with three parts put together, called the Pre-Unit Construction Engine. The engine, gearbox and clutch cases were three different units altogether connected to each other independently. So what happened was you needed to change oil at three places each time. Now, that is a messy thing to do, and also considering the various gaskets that required replacement frequently, in simple terms, it was maintenance heavy.
Also, since the engine was separate from the gearbox and the clutch, a lot of power used to get lost in terms of transmission losses as the set up is not as efficient as modern engines. so, not only were the Cast Iron and AVL LB Bullets delivering lesser mileage but they were also making lesser power at the rear wheel even though they were making decent power at the crank shaft. Here are some figures. The Cast Iron and AVL 350cc engines both produced 18 Bhp at the crank, but this figure went down to 12 Bhp at the rear wheel. Power loss: A whopping 33%. Culprit: Transmission losses.
Now, the UCE 350cc engine produces about 19.8 Bhp at the crank shaft. At the rear wheel, the power is about 16 Bhp. So, that is only 20% power lost in transmission losses, which while still a lot in terms of modern motorcycles, is fair enough for a Royal Enfield, which is a low revving, big single. Also, the Unit Construction Engine is more fuel efficient than both the Cast Iron and AVL Lean Burn engine by almost 20%. While the 350cc CI and AVL engines used to deliver 35 kmpl, the UCE engine consistently returns 45 kmpl.
Now, let's look at why I'm rating the UCE engine higher than the CI or AVL engine. First of all, let's begin with the valve train. The UCE engine now uses hydraulic valve lifters(tappets) to instead of the conventional tappet arrangement. What happens in the UCE engine is, pressurized oil drives the pushrods in the engine. Due to the oil pressure being able to remain constant for long periods of time, the pushrods don't cause the valve clearances to change like they used to in the older engines. So, you get more consistent performance. In other words, riding hard won't make your valves loose anymore.
While I wouldn't call the hydraulic tappets totally maintenance free, for street riding purposes they should do fine for at least 20,000 kilometers before needing any kind of attention. Coming to the Cast Iron and AVL engines, which use solid tappets to move the pushrods, very often the pushrods become loose thus requiring constant adjustment. So, you would have seen many Bulleeteers constantly running to their mechanics to get their "tappets adjusted". So, not for nothing they said that the mechanic is the Bullet's and the Bulleteer's best friend. 😉
The third big change in the UCE engine is that of longevity. The UCE engine will last longer than the Cast Iron as well as the AVL engine even if you ride hard. Here's exactly why. Ask a Bulleteer who rides hard about how long his Cast iron Bullet will last at 120 kph. Chances are that he would say that he doesn't even dare taking his Bullet to those speeds. Let's find out why. The Cast Iron Bullets used to come with a floating bush big end. The floating bush worked well until it was immersed in oil and there was enough flow. Yes, flow, rather oil flow is the big buzzword here.
In, Cast Iron Bullets, piston type oil pumps were used. These oil pumps circulated about 1 liter of oil per minute at 5,500 rpm which is almost half the Bullet's oil capacity. Now, at 5500 rpm, when the engine is revving at it's very top, just 1 liter of oil circulating to cool down the engine means only one thing. Bad engine cooling. Oil, as you must be aware is the blood of the engine. Apart from lubrication, more importantly it helps keeping the engine cool by absorbing heat off the metal parts unto itself and then circulating it continuously to dissipate heat.
On the cast iron engines, which were designed in the 1950s, this simply does not happen efficiently enough. To be fair, speeds in the 50s and 60s were quite low as roads weren't as well developed as they are now. The Bullet, back then was a decent ride but the Cast Iron engine has simply outlived it's purpose. Brutal it may sound, but that is the truth. Royal Enfield attempted to make some amends in the late nineties when they headed to Austrian engine design firm, AVL. AVL gave birth to the AVL range of engines, whose biggest advantages were a better oil pump and a roller type big end bearing.
The AVL engines featured a gear driven oil pump which used to pump double the oil per minute when compared to the Cast Iron engine at 2.42 liters at 5,500 rpm. So, more oil being circulated means that the heat is being dissipated better. Also, the roller end bearings work better than the floating bush. The other big change was the aluminum block which, being the biggest advantage of the AVL engine also forced the engine to be the least popular. While Aluminum dissipates heat better, it also muffles less sound. So, the AVL engines were prone to valve train clatter.
This is one reason why a lot of Royal Enfield enthusiasts sill preferred the cast iron engine for it's soulful thump even though the AVL engine was vastly superior to the cast iron engine. Now, think about this, if you would prefer thumping at 40 kph all day on a highway, you may still prefer the Cast Iron engine. For everything else, the AVL engine is better. But then again, the AVL engine is still inferior to the latest kid in town, the UCE engine as the UCE engine has improved valve train apart from a lot of other improvements too.
For starters, the UCE engine uses a rotary type oil pump which pumps our 9.5 liters of oil ever minute at 5,500 rpm. This is full four times more than the AVL engine and a whopping 9 times more than the 9 times than the cast iron engine. Obviously, if you've gotten till here, you'll know how increased oil circulation will improve the longevity of the engine. For the record, my good friend Adrian's 2008 Thunderbird UCE350 has managed to run strongly even after 60,000 kilometers with absolutely no repair work done to the engine thus far.
Just take a look at the sheer volume of oil being pumped in the UCE engine, which is many times more than the Cast Iron or the AVL engine could ever manage.
Also, the UCE engine comes with a anti-backlash system engineered into the cams which makes sure that the cam backlash is kept to the bare minimum, which increases the cam life as well as maintains consistent engine performance even under hard riding. Bulleteers will understand how frustrating backlash can be on Cast Iron and AVL engined bullets, which though featuring adjustable cam spindles were still troublesome if ridden at speeds of 80 kph and above frequently. Also, the UCE engine has a piston ring designs that eliminates blow by.
Getting into crankcase blow by is another topic for another day. So, you must understand that a lower blow by means lesser oil getting wasted or lower crank case pressures. Two more changes are an auto decompressor assembly that sits on the UCE engine's exhaust cam that makes starting easier. The UCE Bullet is almost as easy to start as say a Karizma or a Unicorn and now, that is a huge change, isn't it? Finally, the UCE engine also has an auto primary chain tensioner which makes sure that the primary chain has just enough tension to ensure best performance and least maintenance.
If you've read this much, first of all I thank you for your patience. I also am sure that armed with so much more knowledge about Unit Construction Engine Bullets, you can now confidently choose as to which Royal Enfield suits you, either a new one or a used one. Also, the future clearly belongs to the Unit Construction Engine and in due course of time, spare parts for the Cast Iron and AVL engines will begin to dry up. In fact, parts for the AVL engine and the CI500 engine are already scarce.
Well, the thump obviously will be muffled in the long stroke UCE engine, which still remains a big, low revving single true to Royal Enfield's heritage and is not quite an appliance bike like say the Pulsar or the Unicorn. And before I go, remember, Royal Enfield themselves offer a 40,000 kilometer/two year warranty on the UCE bullets while they used to offer only 10,000 km/1 year warranty on the Cast iron and AVL engines. So, that itself says a lot about how much the manufacturer trusts the UCE over the CI and AVL engines, doesn't it? So, choose wisely and yes, Happy Thumping!
About Author
I ride, I blog and I trip. This apart, motorcycles, vintage mechanical watches, people watching, camping and traveling are my other interests. Incidentally, I hold a engineering degree in electronics and work experience in computer networks and professional blogging. I live in Bangalore currently and you could get in touch with me at [email protected]
Rohan Reply
Excellent post my man! I'm buying UCE anyways…a tad bit sad that I wont need to open her up too often.
Glad you understand dude. Lotsa folks are getting stuck up with the thump thingy and they don't realize the hassles of it all. A vintage bike is just that, vintage.
Meanwhile, here's something that's even more interesting, Read this->http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/motorcycles/royal-enfields-uce500-engine-dump-fuel-injection-carburetted-icb-exclusive-34230/
awesome post bro hope it opens some eyes who still wanna stick to CI….i have TBTS and it offer only 1 year warranty nt two…
Thanks Jay,
It was very informative read. Please do keep posting these type of technical articles.
What do you think about RE going back to Carb, it looks like we are being short changed instead of offering kits to upgrade to O2 set up?
As you know Royal Enfield should have offered the o2 sensor in the FI system right from the beginning. Since they wanted to keep costs low, they refrained from doing so. As you say, Royal Enfield as a goodwill measure should offer the o2 sensor kit for existing customers if at all they are really serious about satisfying their customers. But in India, unfortunately very few manufacturers really bother about a satisfied customer. Any which ways, the carbed UCE500 is not yet a certainty even though the RTO shows an entry. Also, it may not be offered on the Classic and instead the Machismo might get the carbed UCE500. So, I won't comment on that, just as yet. We'll keep you updated as and when we receive any information regarding the carbed UCE500.
I own a enfield classic -350(1995).I argee with you that the UCE is much more advance and much more better than the old cast engine.Also the availability of spare is tough. But then also I personally feel that enfield is not for riding at 100 or 110 kmph, because enfield is like a elephant which doesn't care about anything but goes on slowly on its defined path. Also the main identity of enfield is its vibration and sound which has been reduced in the newer versions.I have tried the new enfield of one of my friend, but I didn't get the same feelings as of my own enfield. There is no much difference in new enfield and Karizma or Pulsar 220.Although this all are my personal views, I don't know how many people will agree with these thing or not.
Vinod Basi Reply
Rightly said, Bullet is for people who like to get the feel of the machine. Not for speed.
I'm happy to own a Cast iron engine.
P.S. I don't care how much maintenance cost I incur. And so would most CI engine guys.
motley Reply
I Agree with you man..bullet was not made for speed..it was made to make you feel Royal..and thats why it is called Royal Enfield Bullet…Made Like A Gun
Soumendra Reply
Yes sir, Bullet like a gun goes like a bullet, i am agree with your comments because i am also having old avl type bullet n its really amazing. I have lot of friends who r riding CI bullet generation wise having 1960 model how? If CI is not good then how they are riding last 60 year…… But i have a question to every bulleters who are having UCE, can you guys riding forward to your next generation……
Navdeep Dahiya Reply
Would like to put it this way: "A 2000 year STD 350 Royal Enfield owns me". By statement you can make it that how much I love my machine. CI engine sound & feel is unmatched. UCE is nothing in terms of feel of Royal Enfield. Bullet is meant for 30-40 Kmph Dug-Dug sound, those who want to go faster better use Rajdhani express or Delhi Metro. Maintenance or mileage is a word that would never come to mind of a Enfielder, whatever circumstances he might have been in.
i trusts the UCE
Hi Jay,
That was a very informative & outstanding post i have read so far.
Have booked a bullet 350cc uce, expecting delivery by the end of this month or early next month.
All these days i was very skeptical about the transformation of RE from ci, avl to uce but now after reading your post, i must say that am relieved & breathing easy to book a uce rather than ci or avl, yes the thump is quite different & missing but other updated technology & advancements have been matched up to the standards & have made it hassle free
Thanks for that eye opening post
Keep it up buddy 🙂
nice article,find it very helpful.Thank You
I have Bullet 350 for the last 5 years (with old CI engine). I love the bike for the thump and heavy weight and comfortable riding too… It is definitely a gorgeous and cult bike to have! I can't even call Karizma or Unicorn a bike compared to Bullet! But.. I must admit that maintenance costs are quite high. Also I have 4-5 major or moderate issues every year when I need to get bike into service. Say, this year – clotch plates gone, low decompression, spark-plug thread gone… I' m not even mentioning here countless brakes and clotch adjustments, oil leakages, very low mileage (25-30 km/l).
So in few days I'm buying new Bullet Electra 350 with UCE. I'm feeling it is time to change. It is still Enfield Bullet after all.
But I know that I will surely miss my old Bullet like an ex-girlfriend that I loved much but who was causing me too much troubles…
Jay Prasanth… I doubt how well will UCE stand the test of time as CI did.. lets wait n watch but i bow to you for a such an insightful review.. God bless you Man!! Bullets's unique identity was it's THUMP which made heads turn n could hear it from far distance that ya a bullet is going somewhere around us But yes Truth is always bitter.. New UCE makes one feel like its kind of Japanese bike with Bullet outfits.. But i do care for environment and better sake of RE to continue on its production to next decade or else Govt will shut it down as it happened to YEZDI.. I am using and proud owner of 1994 model cast iron bullet but soon going to shift to newer bullet with UCE n Thanks to you for changing my perception..
Thank you for the kind words. Glad you're shifting to the UCE but I hope you'll keep your CI350, cos you've got a classic there. Happy thumping!
Hi – loot of good hearted users of RE. end of the day RE gets the benefits and you gets the feel of it. what ever the reason, i look these post as a marketing for UCE and intent to increase the UCE advantages in our mind. I still prefer and say the CI's are the great lion outperformed engine and no one can beat. yes i do admit it has few technical issues that should have been resolved but not. for the sake of profit and other regulatory requirement, RE moved to this new technology but no hope to users for sure.
Thanks but for a middle class man it's hard to keep a collection of Royal Enfield.. I will probably get a good thumping silencer for a new 350UCE to pacify. So it's nature's rule.. old one has to give way for the New ones.. But my Love for the Old Classic 350cc for its robustness n thumping will never diminish & will never be replaced by any bike.. Happy Thuming to you dude!!
Thanks man. An awesome post. Wanted to know the real facts about RE motorcycle engines. I think I know better now and clearer than I knew the engines before.
Though, I am planning on the new Thunderbird 500cc released yesterday in New Delhi at the Auto Expo 2012. Impressed with the Fuel Injected engines of my friend's Classic 500. Plus projector headlamps, disc brakes on both brakes, etc, I really think it'll be in demand far more than any other competitor.
Long live RE !! 🙂
The best and the ultimate comparison between engines used in RE motorcycles. Reading this comparison helped me make the final decision of buying a UCE powered RE motorcycle and made me a regular here at Indiancarsbikes.in. In the comparison above, it has been indicated that RE offers 2 years of warranty on UCE motorcycles, but sadly it is not the case in India. Unlike some countries in the West where they get 2 years of warranty, here in India we have only 1 year warranty on all RE motorcycles.
Thanks for such a wonderful and informative article.
i already booked RE Classic 350 two weeks back but was still in doubt till reading this article on whether to go for new uce or the old cast iron engine model i.e. used bullet. googling for the same got me here and now after reading this article i am clear about the technical differences and will definitely be going for new UCE model.
Good article there Jay, thanks for sharing the technical aspects and the advantages of UCE Engine. I've had a 1978 model for the last 12 years and have just got rid of it, looking forward to riding the UCE.
Lets just say ive traded in the white elephant :-))
That was awesome review man. I was in dilemma whether to buy new bullet or not. I was looking for insight on CIs and UCEs and after reading your post I am relived and all my doubts are cleared. You rock. Booked Electra twinspark UCE.
Sorry, I still want the real, cast iron engine. Lets go through the supposed advantages of the UCE:
1. OIL FLOW – My Cast Iron Engine has a high capacity bronze oil pump for more than double the oil flow than the engine was originally designed for. Advantage negated.
2. HYDRAULIC TAPPETS – This is the one thing that I wish the Cast Iron Engine had and is perhaps the only true advantage of the new engine. I do enjoy setting my own valve clearance though and anyone who does not should probably not be riding Bullets at all.
3. Economy / Efficiency: My Cast Iron engine has been fitted with mixture control that allows the rider to adjust the fuel/air mixture while on the move. this allows the rider to use the amount of fuel appropriate to the situation resulting in better power and cooling when required and better economy when available, just like a light aircraft. RESULT: My cast iron engine gets better fuel economy than the new engines when operating in the real world!
4. CYLINDER BARREL: My "Cast Iron Engine" uses an aluminum alloy barrel as well leaving no advantage here for the new engines.
5. DECOMPRESSOR: I never had a use for the decompressor and so use that hole in the head of my Cast Iron Engine for another spark plug with an independent ignition system (with its own coil). RESULT: Easier starting, better economy, more power, and a redundant system more reliable than the new electronic ignition.
6. ADJUSTABLE CAM SPINDLE: Not a factor
7. The roller bearing I have fitted to my crankshaft means that it is happy to go 120kph (or much faster) all day long. The new engines cannot keep up.
8. I am producing about 48hp at the crankshaft and losing a lot in the inefficient gearbox, but I still bring a lot more power to the road than anything now coming out of the factory. and I do it reliably, using less fuel, on a motorcycle much more true to its heritage and to the reason that we ride Bullets. I would never ride a Pulsar, but I would rather ride that than a new "imitation" bullet.
Sooraj Reply
Dear Will,
#Respect, to begin with. And lemme remind you that the comparison was between the old "Stock" CI engine and the new Stock UCE engine. You are not wrong when you said your old CI bullet being better than the new UCE. Or in an another perspective, so much of modifications are required to match up or to make it better than the new UCE. 😛 But the point that the New UCEs are better than the old CI still prevails. And how much exactly did you shell out on making your ride to its current state?? The amount you spent + your bike's actual price? If the Royal Enfield used to manufacture your bike and would sell it for like, per se Rs 1.35 laks, then yes, we all would prefer your's than the new UCEs.
Ride safe…..
i agree to your point. you are absolutely correct. CI is always better and looks this is to promoting the UCE. I do not go with.
Chiset Reply
Hi Will Barclay, thanks for your insights it really helped me. Was wondering if you can quide me to work on your point 7. A friend of mine also has two plugs and it seems it gives more power and mileage.
I want to implement the above changes to my cast iron engine. so, could you able to give me your contact details to know more about the above comment and to make mine to a real hero
A very insightful, informative post. Thankx it made me a much knowledgeable man and helped me in making my decision.
Pls refer above (Hitesh Sharma on January 24th, 2012 12:27 am)
Even though i had booked Classic 350 (uce engine) but after 2 months of study, research and interaction with users, mechanics and experts i came to following conclusion:
1. the new one is like any other bike and not a real royal enfield bullet.
2. the beauty of cast iron engine bullet is that its comparatively simple and with little bit of training we can do troubleshooting and repair it on our own (a "do it yourself" kind bike).
there must be some beauty which made this technology to exist in market for more then 50 yrs without any major technical changes.
3. there is no need to compare the real RE bullet (CI Engine) with the present one. uce is a good bike with 35 to 40 kmpl mileage but its not RE bullet in real sense.
So i will be going with Royal Enfield Bullet Std.350cc (cast iron engine).
Hitesh Sharma
yes, you rightly said, CI can not be compared or it can not be talked at all infront of any other engine, i would say not a engine. but CI is the king and its the king, no replacement, alternate. its all for marketing the UCE. CI is beauty, performance, regard, great, steability, etc etc……
@ Rohan – Best of luck and I hope you don't have to open up an UCE coz if you do then the labor charge will be atleast 5x more than old Enfields.
@ Jay – People buy Classic (I mean real classics here)/Vintage bikes NOT for speed or initial pickup or mileage. They buy it because the so called "Charm" of it attracts them. But these days there are alt options. UCE is one of them. It's not bad, it's faster, its more fuel efficient but it's not a classic, neither has an engine from post WWII layout type, lacks the feel but its good 😉
@ Krishna – If you love it then stick to it.
@ Potha – Carb is any time any day better than EFI – Especially when it comes to performance. For people who want mileage, yes they prefer EFI. Also, less headache.
@ Satyabrata – You can't actually say that UCE is better than CI. They have their own pros and cons. Also, older Enfield's engine had the vibrations, newer UCE's engine? I don't know but the entire bike vibrates after 90~110 range. I couldn't see anything in the rear view mirror lol.
@ Vikki – +1, that's all I gotta say. And yes, let's not do some crap talkin about the CI because they ruled for 50 friggin years 😉
@ Will –
Will – 1
@ HS – Agreed
Dear all,
Be open to embrace new technologies. Now, folks who have got old bullets will never deny it's disadvantages. It is nothing but natural human tendency. How can you expect the things to remain same as they were 20-30 years ago. Everything changes with time. Even today's UCE will be replaced by some other engine which will be surely cursed by this generation and appreciated by the future generation. As mentioned earlier, it is just human nature.
Its the most informative article no doubt about it. I visited many sites for Thunderbird review but all I read was 'bla my oil leaks… worst bike.. don't buy and other negative comments' from noobs. Good to read an article from a man who knows how RE engine is built. Thanks a million! Bookmarked the website.
@ Sasank – Ignore the haters mate. You know what? People say cast irons are oilfields lol. I had 3 cast irons and 2 avls engines so far in these 12years. Trust me! none had oil leaks! One must know how to maintain a bull! its not easy, not impossible either 🙂
Happy Thumping!
Oh yea! When they failin to tame their bulls!! They start hatin !! 😀
Ryan – Bro, lets not start a virtual fist fight here.
Look we got 3 different breeds here? CI, AVL and UCE. Now they have their own pros and cons. A jetted , properly carbed 500 can beat any AVL or UCE but once again! That performance comes with a cost. The whole purpose of AVL or UCE is not mileage but overall efficiency. Also, Royal Enfield was in a bad shape for several reasons. Their products not meeting the requirement, emission norm related stuff and what not. So they had to make something advanced. Doesn't mean that they killed the Cast Irons. That is why the parts are still available in market for all version. Also, I am a proud CI rider, from past 10 years I have rode CI's and recently bough an AVL 500. Frankly speaking, anything and everything that is not CI – is not a real bullet. That's how it goes but everyone wants to try these mean machines! So to make this more user friendly, AVL and UCEs were made. OFC Avl and UCE doesn't have the charm but its easy to ride. That's why leno said that UCE is nice but its something like a level above advanced scooters! Where as the CI's are vintage and can be transformed into retro shapes a sizes. Like the Scramblers, Bobbers, Kneesliders, Cafe Racers. OK! I Think I will stop my spam here… Once and for all! This is related to RE, a typical ride rode by typically retro people 🙂
Hey Jay, Nice article.. but…now u have confused me ….. i love the bull just for its thump and the gear style…in new bulls u don't get that old gear style(right foot gear with the small neutral lever)…that is unique in bullets which no other bikes have…plz suggest
I have used Old bullet CI 1996 model.
1)After I started using this, my respect got increased in my area automatically.
2) When ride it everyone eyes falled into it
3) Sound will give you Good feeling when ride it.
4) I have altered with Classic spring, hence no back pain on it
1)Untill going fine, U will feel like a King, once it Start give prob then U will feel urself as cursed person.
2)I have faced below simple problems, but Lost my whole energy and Money on it:-
a) Accelator cable cut:- No where I found accelator cable for bullet in Nungambakkam, I caught auto and bought
cable from Royapet. Nearly 15kms distance. But Cable which I bought was duplicate. Approximately Mechanic put it.
Before Reached my destination 10kms distance, Bullet stopped for every 100mts once and need atleast 50kicks to start
it, due to this my knee got started pain and my heart tooo. Note:- Cable rate is only Rs 40, but auto charged Rs :-200
b) at very first day my bullet got puctured at 6am in Egmore, no Valcanizer or Normal mechanic didnt to help me, even nearly
I have begged them. I was waited in mechanic shop for 3hours after then mechanic sent his helper to help me.
For this I have spent to get mechanic , auto charge is Rs 300. Due to no mechanic willing to help, I have went
to all mechanic shop and home nearby Egmore.
c) Again one day my Bull got punctured in my home itself, By filled air in punctured Typre in nearby mechanic shop
and reached Valcanizing shop. For single puncture he asked me Rs:-60.
d) In Traffic, bull without self start really horrible thing to ride it.
e) Bullet will start within a single press some days and also it wont start even so many kicks most of a time.
It need to visit mechanic frequenctly for starting problem and also due to Bullet mechanic demand, no
Bullet mechanic will respect you as a man. You need to stand or wait like a student in front of Headmasters.
f) If you ride it beyond 45kmph or 50kmph suddenly mileage will be 25kmpl or 20kmpl. you cannot
overtake any vehicles. If you follow speed 40kmph, you will get mileage 35kmpl. you can't expect pickup init.
Conclusions:- If you want to own Old Bullet, you Must need following:-
1) You should have more time to spend on it
2) You should keep money at all time, atleast 1000rs
3) you should check and change below:-
TYRES,TUBES,CARBURATOR,ACCELATOR CABLE(keep one spare),CLUTCH CABLE(keep one spare).
4) you should have nearby Bullet mechanic
New bullet is problem free
I was so confused untill I read this ! gracias.
a very informative article – great job
Hats off for a wonderful review and thank the author to have shown light on the UCE Engine.
I just own a brand new TBTS Thunderbird. Its awesome and smooth. All i can say is that if you still dont change yourself as time changes, You are a loser and a step back. When u want the old thump and feel.. be prepared to shell out more time,money, and resources.Even i own another diesel bullet and alternately drive both bikes. Love to tell u all that it has not even leaked a drop till date. thats a different story altogether. But still, if we dont keep pace of new technology, we will be forced to submit automatically very soon.. AMEN
Hi Jay,
I have read your reviews and appreciate the sincerity with which you have technically elaborated. I m planning to book a Thunderbird TS this week and felt much better after reading your reviews. Else it was quite confusing with contradictary reviews on multiple sites. Now I can go and book my pet with no confusion any more. Please share if you have reviewed TBTS as well.
It depends on what a person wants. These are britt bikes.. you own one? then learn how to take care of the same when she falls sick!
Also.. UCE was introduced for a reason. It's for people who always gave 2 sh!ts about mileage and efficiency. Well.. a GOOD Flat Tracker Cast Iron 500 can circle around the UCE 500's 😉
Once again.. it is also about Mileage for some people so for them yea.. UCE might be good! Stick to it 🙂
@ John I read all your problems..
a) Accelator cable cut:- Riding a bull you should know basics..this is not difficult
b) at very first day my bullet got puctured at 6am in Egmore – tht can happen to any vehicle
c) Again one day my Bull got punctured in my home itself – refer to b, paid Rs.60 same rate in Mumbai..
d) In Traffic, bull without self start really horrible thing to ride it. Check your bull for point setting and spark plug
e) Bullet will start within a single press some days and also it wont start even so many kicks most of a time.- never faced tht
f) If you ride it beyond 45kmph or 50kmph suddenly mileage will be 25kmpl or 20kmpl – little modification in fuel air mix will do good
havent driven the new one but … but the whole fun of riding a bullet is going slow in top gear…easy cruising…the whole idea is to see things around you… since it aint no race track around to zip about…. so still the old engine rules
hey bro, thanx for the post man really enjoyed it and got a better knowledge about the difference between the two engines. I feel that the new UCE bullet is much better in all areas and I like it, but I still miss the old left foot breaks which was a RE exclusive in our part of the world. But hey what can you do about it, so I would better enjoy what I have got here. Once again thanks for the post bud. Keep riding and enjoying the "bullet".
Archibharat – I completely agree but if a guy want to take an Enfield to the race track then he can for sure. Also, I am talking about the old engines.. 1950s? Yes, those are used for dirt racing by many.. in India and also outside India.
Here's 2 clips – Enjoy!
Part – 1
Part – 2
Another Hill Climb Video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz2BHmV3WBo&feature=related
Also the above posted videos show things that can be done by ONLY Old Enfields. There are 535's on this planet which churns out 55bhp 92nm Torque.. compared to stock 500 CI, giving 21bhp and 39.5nm torque. 612cc Cast Irons give around 52~68 BHP on the rear wheel and approxx 107nm torque. And yes can be done ONLY on cast irons.
scott Reply
hi im i will be buying a 500 Enfield to have customized , i have bin offered a 2008 500 avl or a 2006 535 cc stranded , im not witch one to go for , and what improvements i can have done to the avl 500 and what improvements i can do to the 535 cc standard regards Scott
I am totally agree with Mr,Sanket ..
i have been using L 535 , tried 500CUE, felt as if it Honda or Bajaj or,,:-(..
i found that L 535 is much better than 500UCE :-)..
if you need power forget the fuel efficiency.
Yea! Loving LB500! By the way… are you HMD from US RE Forums?
@Hmd So you mean to say the new UCE models lacking power comparing with the CI models?
It is true and so so bad that the UCE engines lacking the real thumping legacy of the Bullet, but I dont think it lacks Power.
UCE is powerful when compared to STOCK Enfields. Like CI or AVL. Now people who are happy with less and what company gives..for them it doesn't matter. It matters for them who will break their head looking at the smaller exhaust ports, loads of restriction in cam mechanism and also the EFI system. Even the inlet port has rough surface which restricts the flow. The steel insert and ring in the exhaust ports have the same. Even bigger than the ones used in AVL. You might feel loads of power in lower revs but past 100(Real Speed not Speedo Read) that's where you go short of revs. Also, racing or revving with CV carb is waste. Many big time talkers will brag about their big carbs but end of the day CVs are made for one thing.. that is Reduced Emission and Mileage.
Hi Bro's,
i want to take a bullet now of course i can't get a brand new bullet with CI or AVI engine as am not really keen on taking a second hand, so Obviously i'l have to take a UCE engine, the only question i have is can't we improve the THUMPING by changing the silencer.??
Thump is something which is dependent on a lot of factors. Best bet will be the upswept silencer that you get from RE. Trust me, it's a mix of thump and clarified engine clatter. Sounds good!
hey guys,
i really dont understand why everybody is comparing the old ci engine and uce engine. Everybody knows the difference its the technological change. i own both uce and ci, both r good in their path. if its just the thump u want in uce , go for goldstar silencer u wil get it and bend the silencer nose a bit towards the engine side.
Yes! i am in US RE Forums..
In fact, if i would have UCE ,i would replace the wiring with i want and improve the intake …
The thump rhythms / beats depend on the cams profiles,though 500 CI,AVL & USE got same bore X stroke 84mm x 90mm.
Awesome read! Having ridden a CI all my life I totally agree with what you have to say. The CI though still the original "Thumper" has out-lived it's times. UCE is definitely the way forward for Royal Enfield as it offers you the great history and lineage of Royal Enfield and a motor cycle practical enough for your city and riding purposes. Here's what I'd say: Keep your CI to get that really rusty and classic feel once in a while. Get a UCE (on my way to getting one soon!!!) and hit that highway without any worries of your bike breaking down.
Has anyone tried installing a carb on the 500 UCE? Just curious!
Let me know.
A well maintained 350 or 500 never breaks down. Also EFIs can get a carb installed. Few friends did it already. Hitchcock offers a kit and many others do the same but my friends just disconnected the EFI unit and got carb placed. I don't know if that has any negative effects because a lot of site talks about a lot of different things. BTW the work was done in Bangalore, in a garage named "Art of motorcycles" – By Junaid.
In the engine comparison you should've mentioned the peak torque figures and THE RPM where they are developed.
That is THE KEY to the glorified "thump".
CI engine produced usable torque much earlier – even at 500-1000 RPM.
An AVL used to struggle at that RPM, hence slight revving, and HENCE loss of that thump sound.
I checked the UCE brochure – and they have raised the peak torque RPM further. Which only leads me to believe that you need to rev it even more than AVL to produce the same torque.
End result? Even lesser thump sound.
WHY is Royal Enfield doing this???
We don't want a high revving Honda VTEC engine on RE.
You've done a good work on Engine, reliability, efficiency, Now RE I ask you just one more thing – improve the engine low RPM characteristic.
And bring the classic thump back
Dont forget torque and power are related ;-)..They are really got good relation .
alphal – Are you talking about UCEs redline? The UCEs have 5500 max rpm, you can't even get close to 5500 without few mods. Also, be it CI, AVL or UCE.. anything above 6000rpm will kill the con rod instantly! Maybe once or twice? maybe not even that and that is with the stock set up. Now there are very after market parts with which you can push it till 7000 rpm but those are very expensive!
HMD: yes power and torque are related. But that has got nothing to do with what I was speaking.
At 800 RPM, the engine is just over idling. If it is not generating enough torque to counter the frictional losses induced while the bike moves – the engine will stall.
The precursor to this is the lugging and knocking sound, which leads to very high noise and vibrations and ultimately the engine stalls.
Now the CI engine used to generate USABLE torque even at 800 or so RPM. You could chug the whole day without revving the engine. In fact you could even count the engine stroke – the "dug dug" or "phat phat" sound is the power stroke.
This means 1 power stroke in total 4 strokes = 200 thumps per minute. (= 3 thumps per second)
What happened with AVL?
The new design reduced the low RPM torque.
That means at 800 RPM my AVL engine started stalling, thus I had to rev it slightly higher about 1600 RPM. This is where the engine developed enough torque to counter the frictional losses of the moving bike.
Now audibly what difference does that make?
Well the earlier thumps were 3 per second, now they are 6 per second.
The higher the thumps per second, the more they tend towards the "VROOOM" sound.
This is also a simple reason why thumpers are ALWAYS single cylinder bikes. Even the Harley cannot produce the thump (because of its two cylinders). Going further up to 4 cylinders – the bike will always sound like a car.
Another way to make a single cylinder bike sound like a car is to rev it high.
Incidentally, this is also the reason why Nano sounds like a goods rickshaw when it is idling. It is a two cylinder engine – so more distinct thumps per second than the usual 4 cylinder engine.
Sanket, I think I have also answered what I was really talking about – the low RPM torque.
Not the redline performance.
I got it. I think lighter the crank and flywheel, higher the rpm requirement. If a bike is stalling @ low rpm that is 800, that means the internals are lightened. I feel AVL has lighter internals than UCE. I was reading similar stuff on Classic MOTO Magazine, that's a problem Classic bike racers face too. But 3 different REs they have 3 different purposes. Pick one which you think suits you best 🙂
Its not such a direct relationship between heavy/light crank and engine stall.
The pistons produce a force, which depends entirely because of internal dynamics inside the combustion chamber.
This force is translated to torque at the crank. Whether the flywheel is heavy or light does not change this torque.
Flywheel is only for storage of rotational energy.
(remember there is only 1 power stroke vs 3 non power stroke in a 4S engine) – so it stores the energy during the power stroke and dissipates it during the non-power one.
Think of it as a water reservoir.
So yes, it does help the engine cope with heavy torque requirements, but keep in mind this is only momentary.
The actual torque is still being provided by the piston only. (think of water analogy again – if your pump cannot delivery water, the reservoir will eventually drain)
So even if I put a heavy flywheel on Hero honda CD100 – it will never have the pulling abilities of an RE engine.
Similarly, a CI engine has more pulling ability than AVL, and UCE has least. (Everything near the idling). Even if you put CI crank and flywheel on UCE, you will never be able to chug as slowly as your could on CI.
The difference is in the engine.
Therefore I said:
"Now RE I ask you just one more thing – improve the engine low RPM characteristic.
And bring the classic thump back"
Check this out:
Illustrates the basic difference caused by flywheel weight.
So Sanket, you are right, heavy flywheel will make it easier to drive at lower revs.
But I am right too 😉
If the engine cannot deliver the torque to support the car load and the flywheel load – even a heavy flywheel will lose all its energy and engine will stop.
Dont forget the ignition timing too.it got big roll 😉 .
HMD: we are not asking for anything that will actually reduce the efficiency and reliability of the bike.
If your "ignition timing" refers to usage of CB points vs CDI or TCI – I am not ready to go back to the contact breaker ignition system used in old Bulls.
alpha1.Have you had an experience with C.B ?.I Had it on L535.It was great if got tuned by perfect mechanic.it can be tuned to according to your test of drive..
I remembered it was tuned accordingly even i could count the beats ,the idling was to slow was less than 400RPM..
i switched to DIGITAL ELECTRONIC IGNITION KIT which has an improved advance curve which is more beneficial…
alphal – That's some good info mate! Thanks!
Nice article,
I have a concern here about the engine noise among CI, AVL, CI (Self start) and UCE generations
I use 2009 Electra with self start (Not the AVL one), I am not sure how to name the engine as it is a breed, which make hell of noises even in idle conditions.
A well tuned Cast Iron engine is the quietest. Tappets and backlash are major sources of higher noise on a cast iron engine if the rest of the engine is in good condition.
Will Barclay excellent inputs there. How do i reach u ?
Hi Jay,
It was lovely reading your post. I had always been a little skeptical about enfields regarding the maintenance but have always wanted to own one. I have just 3 days ago booked a TBTS 350 cc model. The new one which the Co launched this month. Could you pls comment on it. Would like to have your opinion on it and also on my decision to book the new TBTB. Pls also add me to your mailing list. It would help a lot to get your advice and comments from time to time since this is my first RE and I certainly do not have your experience. Thanks. Have a nice day.
Dear Mayur,
You can subscribe to our feeds through email via feedburner which is on our homepage. That will deliver every update on ICB to your inbox.
Coming to the latest TB350, it is a big improvement over the older model in terms of usability and handling. The engine is tried and tested.
Jay can u tell me what is meant by cam backlash and blowby.
Awsome explation:)
Well explained .Even a first time bullet user can easily understand.
hi jay,
Please guide me on this. I am 32 currently i own RE bullet standard 350 four gear 2010 model,i am really fascinated by new thunder bird 350 and i am planning to buy it,but please advice me firstly should i go for thunderbird 350 over my old bike.and if yes then which is better classic 350 or thunderbird 350 ,secondly if thunderbird than 350 or 500. I would like to tell u that my daily drive is 30 km in city as well as highway my wish is to buy thunderbird 350 but dont know if classic 350 is better or thunderbird 350 ,i was told by RE agency that the engines are same please help.
Dear Saurabh,
If you ride on the highways, the Thunderbird is better than the Classic. If I were you, I'd keep the old Bullet as a vintage ride and buy the new one as a daily ride.
hi jay,
Thanks for ur response,but i am still not clear ?? Should i stick to my old bullet or buy new thunderbird 350 coz i cannot keep two bikes.is it worth selling old bullet for new thunderbird 350 or not.
Dear Saurabh,
If you're looking for a higher top speed and performance along with added reliability at that performance level, the Thunderbird 350 is your option. However, if you belong to that school of riders who like thumping along at a leisurely 40 Kph in the city and about 60-80 kph on the highway, the CI350 is still a good bet. I'm saying this in the assumption that your CI350 has been reliable enough so far. Also, since the spares of the CI350 are freely available and will be so in the next few years, maintenance shouldn't be an issue.
Both the motorcycles feel very different to ride. I suggest that you ride them back to back to feel what suits you best.
hi jay,
I have booked classic 350,which will be arriving soon. Please suggest me that which silencer will be the best to get the thump like older models. Secondly i felt that the handle was bit uncomfortable ,one has to bend little forward to drive.can the handle of classic 350 be replaced by electra 350 uce handle or some other handle for comfort.how will it look and will it affect its handling.please help.
Hi Jay,
first i have to thank for the great info.
I am planning to buy new RE classic 350 – the thing i have to know is that RE classic 350 is UCE bcoz i saw in one of the brochure of royal enfield mentioned every model (i.e STD, Electra, Classic 500, Desert storm 500, Chrome 500 & TBD 500) as UCE but classic 350 & TBD 350 they have not mentioned, & i didn't get good response from them, so pls guide
Dear Mohan,
All motorcycles produced by Royal Enfield currently come with UCE engines and this includes the TB350 and Classic 350 also.
Thanks Jay, finally i got cleared
Hi Jay, againg i got in confusion.
Is the new Royal enfield 350 standard twinspark & Classic 350 shares the engine or different except self starter, pls clarify
Dear Mohan,
On the inside, everything is the same between the two engines except the eletric starter. Also, since the STD350 comes without the electric starter, the crank case is different.
k, thanks
Is it better to go for engine with crank case heavier & what are the advantages
what are the advantages of crank case with lighter one, and for me i use most of all in city sometimes on highway, which one you would suggest for me, pls reply
Dear Mohan,
I think you're confusing heavy crank(shaft) with the crankcase. A heavy crank delivers better low end torque and this is terrific for the city where you can thump along at a leisurely 50 Kph. On the other hand, a lighter crank delivers better acceleration. AFAIK, the STD350 UCE comes with a heavy crank while the Classic 350 comes with a lighter crank. So, if you use the motorcycle mainly in the city, the STD350 would be a better bet for you.
Thanks Jay, I will buy STD350
Hi Jay
For sake of increasing thump in UCEs, any adverse effect on engine on changing to non standard silencers?
Dear LK,
Ideally, a free flow/derestricted exhaust muffler should be accompanied by a rejetted carb/remapped ECU. However, if you don't plan to do constant high speed wide-open-throttle runs, you're engine won't run too lean. It's better that you opt for the short bottle-type muffler rather than stuff like a free flow Goldstar/straight thru pipe.
so the uce engines of std350, electra350, classic350 and thunderbird350 are one & the same except std350 that is having heavy crank shaft and all others have lighter crank shaft & wat's the advantages & disadvantages of shaft with lighter one
Dear Raghu,
Yes, that's right. A lighter crank equipped engine will rev up faster. Also, it'll will feel less sluggish when given quick throttle inputs.
thanks jay
Hi Jay, handlebar of classic can be fitted to STD350
excellent post my man. one of the ever self explaining one. anyway i agree cast iron and uce is not comparable but am still a fan of cast iron. whatever technology in uce engine i am sure there is no build quality. brand new uce bullets having electrical problems and the old tappet noise. and i am not agree with you as you told uce will last longer than cast iron. I don't think so my std bullet is 25 years old now and its working perfectly cool(of course mechanic is my best friend now. and i am wondering why all these new uce bikes always hanging around near to work shops. after 25 years my std will be still on road but i am not sure these high-tech computerized bikes will last. and also one mone comment is I don't think so anyone want to ride a bullet 120kmp..the beauty of bullet is 60 kmph.if any one want achieve 120kmph there are many in market..
Hey vipindas I agree with you in totality …technology will be better next year but that's not the only reason you buy bullet for…I have 83 model and proud of same… This topic is never ending for us CI engine is our love so how can some one say anything..emotional bonding is all about having old bull …
vs negi Reply
Kedar Bobde & Vipindas,
I too own a 2004 500cc & earlier had a 1985 350cc. Though there are problems a CI engine at 60kmph is the real thing when engine sound is sweetest & comfort for rider & bike the maximum. By the way a constant speed of 55-60 kmp makes even a long distance journey enjoyable. My rides on the 350 Cc were entirely in the mountains of HP with many happy & challenging experiences in rains, snow & kachha roads. I am now 56 years and cherish my 500cc which I get to ride occasionally..!
1)anti-backlash system or what is backlash,
2)is there any instruments available in open market for checking/identifying/reading error codes related to the engine control unit in uce engine.
3)how can we check weather the fuel injection system is performing up to the standards like fuel line pressure nozzle condition. (considering a normal bike mechanic is doing the job because i always know company service center people are not good with dealing problems not only for Enfield all bikes and cars and even electronic items.)
4)how do we know these hydraulic lifters(tappets)performing good(oil pressure ect).a normal mechanic can say what is wrong with your ci engine without looking at it.. awaiting reply. thank you
With due respect to your lovely article, I would like to express some of my opinions. Hope I didn't offend you or anyone reading this article:
I m a diehard Royal Enfield lover and I love to maintain my Bullet. Why I love maintaining my Bullet is because the more I spend time with her rectifying problems, the more I love her. And, I am a guy who won't mind to tighten a screw even at mid-night.
So, coming to UCE. Although it might be tension free or much "superior" engine but where is the challenge to ride it? Even a 18 years old can pick and ride one, but not the real Bullet. You can't just kick-start her, as and when you want. It need to earn the respect (or say techniques) from her to ride her.
One more thing, Bullets are not Karizma or Pulsar (fast city-bikes) to ride at 120kmph but a decent and "Royal" bike. I am happy to ride at 60 kmph and enjoy the thumping music of Bullet.
Brian Quadros Reply
What is life without problems? U ride a bike which gives no trouble and eventually u forget what bike u r riding! I get closer and understand better as we goes on solving the problems.
BTW, I learnt many things during my tenure with my "Black Monroe" and breaking down on a nowhere highway is just another hiccup for me now! Well, thanks for sharing ur view!
What an explanation of old bullet thump.. but it has induced few more questions in my mind…(I m not much of a technical guy)
1. Considerable torque at low RPM d primary reason for thump then how come by changing d silencer in d new UCE's good some good considerable thump(off-course not like old one)
2. I have UCE CL350.. so changing the crank in my bike and then playing around wid bent pipe nd exhaust can produce d same old bullet thump?
3. Can d crank be changed without any side effects..
4. Without changing d crank can I get almost d same old bullet thump by changing d bent pipe nd exhaust? If yes den how?
I am very curious abt it and assuming a detailed explanation from u as u seems to hv a vry gud knowledge….cheers \m/ 🙂
Very informative article Jay…thank you so much for sharing the knowledge
1. Considerable torque at low RPM d primary reason for thump then how come by changing d silencer in d new UCE's good some good considerable thump(off-course not like old one)
The change in muffler just makes the new UCE sound loud. The quality is not the same. Get an old bull along with the new UCE, and note the frequency of thump-thump at idling. Then put in the first gear, start riding the bike and again note the frequency of idling. Do all these comparisons side by side.
The thump-thump in old bull happens at lower frequency and thus is more authoritative than the "racy" new UCE.
This happens because you need to rev the new UCE, otherwise your engine will start lugging and the bike will stall.
2. I have UCE CL350.. so changing the crank in my bike and then playing around wid bent pipe nd exhaust can produce d same old bullet thump?
You may try, but it won't give the exact same sound. The cast iron engine block does make the sound a little different. But you should get very close.
3. Can d crank be changed without any side effects..
Of course! you have the heavy crank mods done to improve the low end performance, and light crank mod to improve the "racy-ness" of the engine.
4. Without changing d crank can I get almost d same old bullet thump by changing d bent pipe nd exhaust? If yes den how?
Now you can't. As I said earlier – do the side by side test = old bull vs new UCE.
Changing the muffler can only increase the loudness. It cannot change the RPM at which the bike feels comfortable.
That RPM depends on the engine characteristics and the flywheel mass.
Thanks a lot alphal for the reply.. I was waiting from quite some days 🙂
The question comes back again, can just/only d crank be changed without changing or affecting other things? Possible? Won't affect d engine/piston/valve/gear teeth etc..? Need a gud light on this as I might think of getting d crank changed at some point in my bull's life 🙂
And I have one more doubt which needs clarification.. considerable torque at low RPM d primary reason for thump.. then that means when even d old bull is driven at high RPM the thump should diminish to noticeable ? Also if both UCE and old bull driven at high RPM where the torque produced is kind of same then must produce kind of same thump (apart frm other reasons neglected like design of exhaust nd engine metal making d sound different)..
Thank you again
1. The change in flywheel (called crank by many) should not adversely affect the engine. What it will affect is the engine performance. If the Std UCE is available with heavy flywheel, whereas the other model is available with lighter one – it just shows that there isn't much ill effect of the same.
2. At high RPM the thump doesn't really diminish. It just doesn't sound like a thump anymore. Old bull as well as new UCE – both racing at 5000 RPM will never sound thump-thump-thump. It will sound more like a racy engine making a "vroom" sound.
You've seen and heard the Piaggio APE goods carrier? The thump thump sounds harsh and bad but it is very loud, distinct and clear. It sounds bad because that's how diesel engines sound. But the THUMP THUMP of that engine sounds loud and clear because of the extreme low RPM and extreme high torque (at low RPM) from that engine.
Thank you once again for the reply Alphal
I like article..i like new bikes….i will buy UCE engine bullet…
Excellent article! I own a 2012 Classic 500 and love it dearly, though it was giving me some headache and finally got its engine replaced after 2500km. Struck by bad luck I'd say. The discussion is interesting to read, almost the same as in the forum here, between RE novice riders with UCE like me and pre-unit traditionalists.
As for the thump: technically better skilled people than me explained that very low idling is probably even worse than high revving, as wear of material goes up. Also, floating bush depends on the oil film being build by revving above very low idle so leaving your engine at low idle or riding slow at high gear might sound cool but could be harmful to your engine. Don't know if the same holds true for the UCE. Your opinion?
Kind regards and greetings from Germany
Hi Michael,
Read your comments and I am surprised what went so wrong that you had to change your engine? That's sad.. can you let us know…
Thank you
Gyanendra from India 🙂
Hi Gyanendra,
well, it started slowly. Right after the first oil change at 500km, receiving 15W50 Motul semi, the engine developed loud, irregular mettalic noises at startup, going away at higher rev and engine warm up. I felt my 2012 was giving more vibrations than compared with the 2010 model and my dealer's 2010 standard. There was wild guessing as of this noise was coming from the tappers or the auto deco. There was also a sporadical slippage feeling from the clutch with some noise plenty of time the clutch lever was released and the engine accelerating. The mechanics were clueless. During 2500km service, the dealer told me that there are difficulties with the engine..I rushed over there and they demonstrated…idle engine, clunky sound, getting worse when tilting the bike left or right. The seeked advice with the general importer for RE in Germany and he advised to messure axial tolerance of the crankshaft. It was way too high, upon order of the importer I received a replacement engine…and I was quite shocked…shortly after a couple of 100km I noticed oil draining from the gear sprocket. It was likely due to a assembly error in the factory not applying enough torque (80NM) to the securing nut pressing the sprocket against the gasket and washer. No it is winter time here and the Bullet is hibernating hopefully I can start into the new season without any issues. 🙂
Greetings from Germany
Sad to know what happened with you but good that you got the engine replaced. I hope everything will be fine now but as you know and they all say this Bullet's have these tendency to give their owners nightmares but when they run all well then they run like a dream and the rider feels like heaven 🙂 Thank God my Bull Classic 350 is running all well now and 3000 Km completed. Hope everything remains smooth… Cheers… By the way just wanted to ask, what you guys do their in Germany if you need for more thump in the Bullet? DO you guys goes for silencer change? Does the government/traffic rules allow that?
Happy Thumping
Hi Gyanendra,
Thie depends on age and technology. The older the vehicle, the less regulations. On a 1950's Bullet you can probably get away with everything, but not on a more recent one. Today, all vehicles need to be EUR approved and such approval is valid throughout the EU. Approval procedure checks every freaking part of a vehicle, noise, emmission, power, stability, brakes. Even trafficator glasses and mirrors or headlamp glasses are checked. So, everything relevant bears an "E" sign on it, including the silencer. If your vehicle falls under the new regulations, getting checked by the police and having parts on your bike with no E sign will get you a fine. And in case of an accident this might void your insurance. In the UK, for some funny reason, they don't care much about mufflers with no E sign, so I could get one of these. But that would be illegal to use here. Very recently a company from Italy introduced replacement silencers for EFI with E sign. Engine specs are not changed, but they might sound better. For even a better sound, they come with an optional "sound manager" – a flap in the exhaust. Gaps in the approval procedure measure noise only under certain conditions. The rest is undefined and in theory noise could be louder then. However, price is steep, above 500EUR for the silencer. Power kits are different. On EFI, one would need to adjust ECU mapping. Hitchcock's sell a "Power Commander" for example….of course, no E sign… 🙂
But even if EFI got the least "thumpiest" sound of all Bullets, it's there and the Royal Enfield gets a lot of attention and adoration by almost everyone. Being asked I sometimes reply with "not as old as you might think" 🙂
Thanks a lot Michael for such a detailed and informative reply. I wonder, it is really a struggle in Germany to get the thump in new UCE engines because of tight government rules which are in one way very good cause they are made to have a less polluted environment…
I have one more question though
Does new Royal Enfields only available in 500 CC in Germany/Europe or are they available in 350 CC as well?
Hi Gyanendra,
only a "subset" of the 500cc models are sold here. However, 350 pre-unit have been sold a long time ago – perhaps on a private basis. Expats returning from India after a minimum 9 months stay may return with their Bullet as a "household" item and bypass many of the regulations. But yes, only 500cc are available here. The model range is likely to be extended by the upcoming cafe racer. 🙂
I am now owner of Bullet 350 UCE (Heavy Crank) and my sincere THANKS to Jay and indiancarsbikes.in. Its only this article and all the comments here that helped me to decide for 350 UCE.
Very happy with my decision. All things said here are true. 350 UCE is bullet of 21st century. Still turns all the eyes on road. But definitely when a well tuned cast iron bullet passes by, it shakes the earth and I feel to have nothing but a shiny toy in my hand.
Those who can still manage to maintain a cast iron bullet, hats off to them. They are true bulletiers ridden by passion. As for me, I'm happy to balance passion and practicality. Std Bullet still carries the century old look which every indian is familiar with, atleast I inherited that from old legacy. And I can still do daily office commute without much of a toolbox… 🙂
-LK (Mumbai)
Now days they are giving 10000kms and 1 year which ever is earlier waranty….i have expired it in 3 months… am sad…
Brilliant piece. Honestly, I've had enough of this cast iron chauvinism. First if it's not a a cast iron it's not an enfield, then if the gear shift isn't on the right it's not an enfield. I mean come on, where do you draw the line to this stupid idea that unless you get a fracture starting it or if it doesn't break down it's not a Royal Enfield.
I'm a proud rider of a 2010 Tbird. There are many UCE riders who spend every weekend, cleaning, servicing and learning everything about their bike with their mechanic, more so than most cast iron riders I know.
Yes, the CI's have character and riding a 4-speed right side shifter is just nirvana {having riden a 1967 std 350 on several occasions}, but this annoying statement of "UCE's not being enfields" is bogus & it's high time riders learn to appreciate a good move forward by RE.
That only a person who doesn't mind to get grease on their pants can understand!
Thanx Jay for your valuable inputs.I own a UCE Standard 350 cc BULL & after reading your article I am proud of it as initialy I was feeling very down that it does not produce the thump of the CI bullet but now I realize that there are other important factors than only the THUMP.thanx again…
I guys i like to buy a Royal enfield 350cc standrard in 2nd hand i think its 1994 model is it worth to buy that model r i buy a new UCE type
@ Rathu: if it's RE Bullet std 350 cc then simply go for it. u will love it.
buying a second hand ci engine bullet is extremely better than uce bike.
I think a CI of 1995 is a way better then present UCE . You love the Thump coming out of it . Just at the rate of u r heartbeat . dhug dhug dhug.When u start it in the morning there would people following u r bullets timing . Like if u start its 8 30 am in morning the same I do.
Whenever I here a CI thump I quickly run to the gallery to see it . Which u will never get from UCE. Also you will love the starting procedure. U can also modify it to more attractive one . All the Spares are readily availiable
Enough of comparison on CI to ECU, And a special Thansk to Jay U nailed the technical explanation mate , cheers !!!.
You love to ride and reach a destination then u need a bike that does not give up. Imagine riding to Leh ladak on a CI which breaks down u trip is surely half lived.
The experince of a Biker is Riding not getting ur hands and elbow and UR Pants greased all the time
An open road and a dependable bike is what u need.
Would would not appericiate a Bike that never fails. (Thats why the Roles royce is so highly regarded)It never breaks down.
If u dont like the fun of open road and a good bike good, where ever your bike breaks down open a shop and people who love riding hard break their bikes can stop for a quick fix we defenitely need amazing mechanics to fix our bikes. I fix my own bikes from and RXZ 5 speed to L535 and TB AVl but one a while . Not every other day. I have better things to do and better things to enjoy on the highway.
If you wanna keep riding in the city to grab attention then there are many things u can do to grab attention, ride a cycle in UR birthday suit mate and trust me u'll get all the attention you need including the COPS and Media.
Well a biker loves his bike and ride and hopes his bike never gives up on him.
For all you old thumpers pls restrain from riding the UCE ones and stick to your style , and people who love to ride hard and fast (Which is what bikers were bron to do and have been doing across continents ) lets all ride the UCE's and lets the oldies back in the Dust and enjoy our ride and ensure we complete our journey and reach our destination and plan no the next one immmediately.
I still goes in right shift standard either electra 4 speed no matter what …my question is why we own bullet??
Its only for passionate people…. not for the average kmp not for the instend pick up .. I ride uc engine many time for test ride to get the test …. feel like I am riding some kind of barbie bike …. the thumping the vibration which I get from my standard its totally different about the uc engine in uc engine timing camp can't be adjust like standard and penual is fix in the crank sharp tapet can't be adjust you have to change the whole push rod if make a sounds and by mistake if your starter kick lock is not working then you have to otopsy the engine to change that small part about the break you can't hit your break while riding on the left side coner the break leaver ll touch the road etc etc I can point it out..
Good one Praveen. You for sure will upset CI riders.But this is truth. CI is almost antique now,its pure passion in riders which is keeping CI alive. You don't do a daily office commute on antique Or ride at 120 on an antique. UCE is practical choice, it has put Enfield back on 1year waiting list. UCE made sure CI riders weren't the last one to ride bullets.
Hey praveen,
IF you want a fast and reliable bike why r u in this forum go for Karizma R or ZMR they r realiable and fast too , u will never get problem from them way better than UCE more refined ones.
To all the bikers…riding is passion but also note I am yet to see UCE sold in second with good buy back less than 6 month used you looe 50k gone…why…????? Old CI riders search for one even though so called unreliable …….quality speaks for self…..
I don't want to say anythings just search standart 350 2009 last ci engine model at the use market place what is the price ??? Its 1.5 to 1.40 lakh …… what is the reason behind it??? I don't want to explain and I bet you uce engine won't works for 5 years
If old ones (CI) are so unreliable,out dated, why is it still too expensive? Some CI cost you your fortune! But no takers for new (TB) UCE new ones in the used bike market? Refer olx.com. You will be surprised to see the price tags of CIs. I am planning to buy one bullet soon.
Thank you so much
Hii, it doesnt mean that UCE model is a waste. understand things from the way it is Engineered. your love for the vehicle is appreciable. what ever comments posted by you says the way u like to care the vehicle, not in terms of its usage.. Any ways i like to intercat with peoples who really care their vehicles.. 🙂 🙂
Hii Shivan, understand how well the new engines are made & Engineered, 95% of the people i met who used to say that old bullets are bullets doesnt know the reason only why they are saying lyk that, when i check with them i was getting funny answers from every one that old bullet has a right side gear, left side break & an Ampere meter, but they doesnt no what is the advantage on it.. just simply commenting on it.. saying this doesnt mean than i dont lyk old bullets am hard core fan of bullet from my childhood onwards & i believe that we should run along with the technology updates becoz the world is moving faster bro..
Santosh Kumar H S no comments to u boss 😛 😛
Now looking at the threads posted here, i am getting worried since it seems that some kind of war has taken place. Please advis if i should go ahead with the CL .350 [2013] purchase or not. Using Unicorn/Splendor is problem free. I donot carry any sceptism before taking these bikes on a short/long ride. Looking at the FLAWS of UCE mentioned in this thread i believe i should call off the CL 350 purchase.
Please assist.
bro i am interested to buy bullet model 1976 g2 engine (r.s 90k) or new one is better pls help me. some people are telling that the old bullet has maintenance problem and always we have to change oil
Hi there,
Nice article. But I have some concerns too.
IMO, we're better off comparing CIs and UCEs as AVLs to me is quite simply a piece of aberrated aluminium block if not a botched attempt of RE to come-back(might as well be looked at as the first iteration that eventually lead to the creation of UCE).
While I agree that the UCE is definitely THE best engine to be rolled out by RE, I believe, the CIs (i.e. the Well Maintained ones) dont lag far behind.
I also have to agree that there are quite some losses in the CI ones in transmitting power from the crank-case to clutch-case to gear-box to the rear wheel while in case of UCE straight goes the power from the engine to the wheel. But hey, the clutch and the gear-box are still present. They're just concealed into the unit block. OKAY!?! This probably lowers the losses and is rather far from eliminating them totally!
More over, the new ones are NOT as slow revving as the CI ones. An inversion of this is the fact that the CIs idle at much lower speeds developing max-power and torque at much lower speeds. Does this ring a bell about the oil-flow? The CIs were designed and tested during the days of the engineers rathers than some fancy MBAs and marketing expertise.
During those days, factors of safety were much higher and due to the lack of proper testing tools, older Bullets were extremely over-engineered. For example, the 4s-right-shifter gearbox was designed for the 700cc interceptors. So was the OIL FLOW.
Whilst agreeing that the UCEs are definitely better technology put together, I do have my reservations against them. From the CV carb to hydraulic tappets, from auto decompressors to catalytic convertors, they're all epitomes of costly-tech (which the average rider cannot repair himself),
Bullets were (and the older ones still are) meant to be confidence-inspiring highway rides that behave (if not rule :-D) and over time bring a consensual character to the rider and just as much to the bike per se. CI riders would know how quickly they feel akward within seconds even on the most well maintained bullet that's not theirs. Yes, it involves being a bit of a wrench-monkey, this whole gamut of owning and riding a CI. But then that's what over a few years grows into a bond. A true CI rider knows EXACTLY what's right with his ride and what's not and nevertheless ready for the most ardurous highways and the hills. With no such bonding between a UCE rider and his ride, it's just a matter of time before he/she is bored with the ride and buys a newer Japanese import.
I'm quite simply a CI rider who takes more pride in being a biker than a bulleteer. However, I still believe, a 4S bullet is the best ride I've ever ridden.
Beautiful and convincing article..I hear CI engines,by changing parts time to time,can last even 40 years..do the UCE engines last this long?
So the automatic chain tensioner means that unlike say a duke, there is no need to tighten the chain?
Its a fact that old CI bullets give a much "better" feeling when ride when comparing with the UCE bullets . But UCE has its own advantages over CI. The thump can actually be taken back by using a shortie or goldie silencer. It does not really matter which change you have the gear. I have driven both the CI and UCE engines and i found only a little difference and it is not like what this CI owners spreading . I have booked a bullet 350 UCE ,expecting delivery next month. Another important thing is that if you want to get a real bullet owner feeling ,then buy a royal enfield from the RE . I really dont want to own a second hand shit from someone .. Happy thumping
Hey the piont is thump which can never come out of a UCE engine whatever u you do .As the highest torque is coming at just 2850 RPM compared to 5500 in UCE . U can also feel relaxed crusing in a CI while in UCE u will feel the urgency to compete with others . So basically a UCE is more of a modern day bike which can compete against karizma or Pulsars , but a bullet was built for relaxed crusing and not for racing which the current UCE riders don t understand.
hi guys
i read teh total thread..but still not sure which silencer to get..i have a desert storm with stock silencer..have heard a lot about glassswool goldstar from sans inc delhi..completed 3000 kms..so any suggestions whetehr to go for the change of silencer or not..my main worry is effects of new silencer on engine and pick up..
Well.. now i met a rider!! respect!! 🙂
I owned both engine bullets ,a 1962 and 1964.now have a 2011uce.When compared heat absorbing of ci engines is very bad .My 1964 bullet caused an accident on a 200 km ride from trivandrum to ernakulam in a constant above 80 kmh,when i reach cherthala the engine blast ,engine case is broken connecting rod is came out due to lack of better engine cooling system.So better is uce for long ride because more oil in sump and more oil circulation and good milage of 43.uce is smoother than ci.
Hey buddy say what you wanna say
I owe 1989 CI and no my bullet never broke my trust its most trustworthy for me
Biju man…we won't accept uce never ever
The real meaning of bullet is when you wake up see your girl..turn ignition on decompress it then just a slow kick not much pressure is needed to start a bullet you know a good billet is one which starts by your hand so soft kick just no need of jumping on kick like uce and then just the right single kick sparks your engine man then the thumps and the breathing that a bullet does when you deaccelerate is just awesome its like you are riding a horse…..
You cant do this in a UcE……
And one more thing company is producing each and every parts for AVL and CI
aVL is just worse than UCE…
i own n ride a Std Machismo 350 (CI) of 1997 make… i regularly do sustained highway runs of 600-700 km/day at 3 digit speeds.. till date, i have never faced any of the problems listed by you. all u got to do is knw how to run them. just add 2T oil to the petrol tank and keep thumping. it takes care of the lesser oil issue.
the AVL is again, a beautiful engine.. i have done sustained high speed n long distance runs on them without any issues.
the UCE, though, technologically advanced and all, does not relly click with me. i ride for an organization with a fleet of abt 30 UCE 500's and have done various long distance runs on them.. true, the performance is amazing, bt, its nowhere close to the old work horse.
the main issue faced with the new bikes is of quality control. the chassis is really weak n cracks/bends/breaks frequently. the maintenance though less frequent, does cost a bomb every time.
as for the longevity issue.. bro… CI's of 50's/60's vintage are still on the road. in fact knw of a couple of ppl using them on the highway still. only time will tell if the UCE's would last. as of nw, going by the way they are turning out with quality issues, it'll take a miracle to see an UCE of today running on the highway some 30-40 years hence.
i own standard 350 2k9 ci engine the one with contact breaker point on it,after so much of research and reading reviews i first rode uce and then rode back ci then i came to this conclusion and made my mind…… ci is the engine which i would love to ride any day.
i just love the thump it produces,sound is exceptionally outstanding that buzz and whistle sound which the silencer produces can not be created on any other engine not even uce no matter you put short or long bottle silencer with or without muffler not no engine can notch to that level when it come to produce that unique sound.
i ride my machine below 50 kmph and enjoy thump and power which it produces.
i bought this machine for 85 grands in 2010 when this model was discontinued and planning to buy one more bullet std 1990 model.
happy thumping……
Dear Bulleteers,
I have used 1971 built RE for 2 years between 1994-96. It was sure a fun. In 2007 I bought RE Electra 5 speed with left-side gear shift and liked it even more due to the mix of ease of starting and single key for starting unlike the old ones when there used to be a 2nd key for battery. Now I'm getting a Bullet Std 500 UCE carb version. The EFI is not available in India anyway on a Bullet Standard 500. For me the real pleasure is in a lot of things other than the thump.
Have never had any issue with both my bikes ever except when my battery collapsed in Spiti valley and the Electra would not start. I've never paid any attention to thump. For me Bullet's real pleasure is its stability and perfect balance in city traffic even at near zero speed as well as on the sharp mountain curves. This is where I get my confidence in driving a RE. In a city traffic like Delhi or Mumbai who's bothered about listening to the thump. You can't hear it anyway if its the sweet thump and not the rifle blast that some bulleteers emit from their exhausts terrorizing others on the road. And when I'm on a long stretch on a highway doing 500-600 km a day, I will get damn bored if I paid any attention to the thump.
RE/Bullet means different things to different people and its useless to argue about its supposedly defining feature like "thump". Just the fact that there is a bike that gives a certain feel when I seat myself on its coke-bottle shaped seat, a feeling while grabbing the particular handlebar, decompressing and needing only a very gentle swing of the leg to kickstart in one attempt, is a feeling that prepares me for a confident and ecstatic ride ahead.
I hope that the UCE 500 Standard will be true to its predecessors in terms of all other features like balance and stability on mountain curves etc. save the thump. One important thing I experienced was when I replaced my rear 3.25 inch dunlop tyres with 3.5 MRF zapper which are slightly broader and more meatier. The performance instantly improved in terms of pick-up, speed and overall balance too. I guess the reason could be more ground contact at the rear and more forward thrust being generated. Remember friction is a "necessary evil". If you wear a shoe that somehow has very narrow soles you would not be able to walk as it will not generate enough friction with the surface to push you forward. Wear a shoe with too broad rubbers on the sole and again you will not be able to walk fast as there will be too much friction. So, I feel 3.5 inch MRF zappers are the ideal for the Bullets and RE has been a failure in not shipping their bikes with this one. They are still continuing with the narrower tyres on Electra Twinspark 350, and Standard 350. The RE provided tyres also kill you when you get a puncture. The broader and more fleshy tyre like the 3.5 zapper doesn't go absolutely flat and thus helps you in pushing the bike till the puncture repairer. With the new tyre, even with a pillion rider the acceleration was satisfactory which was not the case with the original tyres. And the bike also looks more appealing from behind like the one who have some flesh on their bottoms.
Even though the UCE engines have changed the classic sound of the Bullets, the chassis and the body shape and contour is still the traditional one. Headlights and meters are same, so are the seats on Standard models. Even though the Bullet has had a transplant and now has a new heart (engine), the persona will retain the charm it had. At least that is what I hope since I'm about to get the new UCE 500 Standard.
guys my DS has MRF zapper but somehow i dont feel comfortable taking sharp turns and on wet surface. any advice or recommendations?
thank you so much for your information.
Actually I was planning for some other bikes due to the reasons of maintenance given above for the CI and AVI , now am more confident to buy a classic 350 with UCE engines in this time.
you are right uce has no challenges……thats why no of bullets on streets have really increased and in chennai bullet is just another bike
i will tell u 40 yrs later i have one be in touch
enfield will not make ci engines now because uce is a hit
Karma Pintso Tsh Bhutia : I used to live abroad and have toured on Heritage Softails (HD) and back in India I still refer a CI Electra 350 for long distance (1000km in an average) touring. So I think this should clear your vague perception of UCE are to ride on the road and not CIs. Lol. Bro, UCE is a modern and more refined engine from RE, no doubt about it. However 'Classy' is a term associated with CIs due to a certain reason, and no its not due to modern tech. If you want to know why CIs are so popular (still!!) among who owns them, then here is the deal:
1. You learn to fix basic issues with the bike and hence grow more confident riding solo for long distance (then it doesnt matter which bike you are touring on!) and you can handle any issues a bike may face.
2. CI engines are one simple design to work on as a new rider who is trying to learn fixing bike issues.
3. CI engines can be restored with the help of a lathe (metal works), hence you can see them running as new for decades now. Aluminium engines unfortunately can't be managed in this manner. Hence you will rarely see very old aluminium engines on road now, they are just used and then dumped in junkyards (in every country!)
4. CI engines require a distinct way of handling/maintenance, once you learn it, you can't find a similar satisfaction elsewhere. Hence the addiction (this experience is already shared by Mr Biju).
5. Very unlikely you will see an experienced CI engine bullet rider riding recklessly. As the CI bike handles well in the hands of a rider who knows how to ride. Revving the engine pretending you are on a sports bike and not being aware of basic riding etiquette is kinda stupid and not cool. This behavior is corrected as you try to handle a CI bull (or actually any bull for that matter).
Hope this helps you understand CI bulls better and I would suggest, if you are biker kinds, try it sometime. Not just a spin around, own it for a while, you will know 😉
hi guys i am in u.s picking up my ri classic 500 fi has 6000km i was intrigued by one commeted
you ad2t of for petrol tank for the ci to cruise on hiway what max cruising speed you recommed for a four hour trip
thanks enjoy your trip
Biju Bullet are u serious
listen pal bullet uce is very good bike and ci is just boring and stop comparing manhood nowadays women also ride bullets and they ride ci bullets too and that with ease so stop critisizing uce bulls
Biswajyoti Sen uce bullet is for the cause ci is just boring to ride and it gives same sound as autorickshaw
Tanay Sinha …haha…good joke is all i can say…but carry on riding…n ride safe
Tushar Kamath …chill maan…i love my ci…you love your uce…the winner is clearly enfield motors 🙂
dude stop critisizing uce engines here…we al kno wat these engines are n wat r dey capable of…grow up dude like u say men ride CIs(rofl)…lets get it on road den…lets see how much ur CI last…Get ur CI bike with ur best rider agnst wit a Uce bike wit d same rider…once n fr all…
Dear Guys,
Stop fighting. Guys who like CI's can continue with their liking and guys who love UCES's and want the thump change your muffler. Thats it. Now get to the CHOPPAAA!!!!
Hasta la vista baby!!!
i think warranty mentioned on article is not correct.. it still is 1 year and 10k kms.
i agree with the article and the point that UCE is technically superior. i have already a CI electra and i like it, have revved it hard but matter of fact is it is a inferior bike for present times. UCE is the way to go.
thanks for the technical article. one of the few article i found out differentiating old model with new model
i agree with uce is better than CI engine and there is no loss of oil leakages and power loss also, but royal enfield has produce again a new engine with cast iron at least the cylinder so that lesser wear out and long life of the bore
i agree with uce is better than CI engine and there is no loss of oil leakages and power loss also, but royal enfield has to produce again a new engine with cast iron at least the cylinder so that lesser wear out and long life of the bore. also in the older version of bullets there was a neutral gear lever so that we can come to neutral position irrespective of any gear these all missing and avoiding it looks there is no new options and advantages as comparing the ordinary other brand of bikes like 100cc, 125cc,150cc,200cc .
you might be right that uce not as good as ci but the term botched attempt is wrong uce saved royal enfield and you can see many uce bullets now on road
i will make you bullet 1978 at 60k in patna and u will not repent
Tanay Sinha, The term botched attempt was not about UCE, my friend, but the AVLs. It really was a sad attempt. Talk to someone who owns a Thunderbird or a machismo or better, try riding one. You'll know what I mean!
Pattabhi, IMHO, G2s are over-hyped. And if you're buying any bullet older 5 years, if you don't know your nuts and bolts, please take a mechanic along with you. A lot of them "G2 owners" are riding the "G2 and heavy-crank" wave and trying to upsell their rides for a premium. Be very careful. Besides, consider the non-availability of spares for older bullets too.
Most importantly, avoid the older ones if you don't like wrenching your bull. These days mechanics fox you into repairs you don't need which you'll end up paying a huge sum.
While at the surface level a 1976 STD's gotta be a fantastic ride, a new UCE aint bad at all!
Happy riding!
Biju, I understand your "fixing thing" standpoint. It kind of makes me closer to the bull and in turn the bull to me.
But I definitely don't agree with the challenge in it. Contrary to the popular belief, what I enjoy about my bull (CI) is the quarter-kick start and smooth as feather gear change. It IS challenging for the first 2-3 weeks at max. Then its very zen 🙂 All of a sudden everything seems to fall in place and the world is in motion around you and you just breathe 😉
LOL! Dude. Its got more to do with "Why with all their technical advancements the 458s and Californias are still outclassed by the 250/275 gtbs and gtos" 😉
Dude! I am very much impressed in the way you have explained about the UCE Vs CI/AVL…It was a myth that we all carry, that Older engines are better than new ones..If thumping is the only issue, buy a Glass wool silencer and install in UCE..I did that and the sound levels are completely changed…I am having full fun of a refined engine performance…along with the thumping sound…
My personal choice is std 350 after having been used both CI + UCE. with little efforts any one can learn maintaining CI. However I think for any new user should think about UCE.
"These days mechanics fox you into repairs you don't need which you'll end up paying a huge sum." I aggre with Arvinda that is one of main reason for having Bullet 350 to go down for some time as there were very few authorized services centers.
The uce engines make more sound than the exhaust note and rattles way too much and vibrations are unbearable above 80 kph..whereas avl s and ci s are better….i ride avl 350 have maintained it at constant 105 -115 for more than an hour still no mess..!
HI.. I read your article and iam sure that you fall under two categories of bike rider.
1. You were really eager to purchase cast iron engine bullet but due to it's unavailability of the same you were compelled to purchase the UCE bullet.
2. You have never ridden a cast iron bullet or do not possess the masculinity to handle the rough and tough machine and have the acumen and desire to do the necessary repairs on your own and take joy in the doing the same.
Now i would not go through the specification of both the motorcycles as it would be like comparing a CRT screen vs Plasma or LED or whatever.
In real sense the question which a rider should contemplate would be that "what really a biker is looking from a prospective bike".
Where would you place yourself :
Serious bikers.
1. A beast a machine which would match the rider personality and reflect the true image of the biker.
2. A pure platonic love for the machine which would carry loads of memories from generation to generations.
3. A mind, patience and know-how of the mechanics of the machine and also a machine which would allow the same and able to allow the user to do some minor and major modification without any issues.
4. A machine with the capability of taking up any kind of terrain and climate and help the rider to reach the destination with a heart full of satisfaction and content.
5. A heart of true rider which means that "you ride to commute" and "not commute to ride".
6. A true adventurer and would venture out to unknown places and incorporate the various riding experience in his personal life.
Non-Serious rider.
1. This kind of rider would like to have a bike with minimum hiccups and a mileage of infinity.
2. A mind with least interest on understanding the mechanics of the machine and would just like to kick the bike the moment there any start-up issues.
3. A rider with the attitude of just commuting from point A to B and would just not bother about the journey.
4. A rider believing in superficial appearance of the bike and would not have any clue about the pure unadulterated "thump" sound.
5. Rider with a attitude to tread a cruise bike as racing bike and would race like a kid on the street and take pride on the same.
As discussed above, we can clearly distinguish between the two rider and understand the psyche behind the two bike and it's choices which a rider would ultimately commit.
UCE bike has a aluminum case which would reduce the life of the engine automatically whereas cast iron is a stubborn beast and would easily take more years to reach the point of replacement of the engine parts. ( 100,000 km is the default life span of cast iron engine)
UCE engine has all the clutch/gear components build in the same unit so it's quite cumbersome to repair one part as the mechanic would have to open the entire engine to repair even a simple issue with any of the component whereas the cast iron bullet has all the parts segregated from each other so one can easily repair any single component without any issues.
Furthermore cast iron bullet has a legacy which has been carried on by generation to generation and one cannot describe/explain the emotions and the pleasures in words for riding the old rough and tough beast.
In nut shell ROYAL ENFIELD took the drastic step to comply with the Euro Emission norms and that's it's there is no other reason for the transformation. Rest of all the cover up and bogus stories.
If UCE is so good then why on earth we can find them hanging out on the second hand purchase market and cast iron bullet is still on demand so much so that even the second hand bike would cost more than the new one.
So it's up to the user to understand and perhaps make some compromise in purchasing the bike of the dreams.
YS Reply
Hi Kane, I really appreciate the way you have described the difference btwn Cast Iron and UCE. I am a big fan of cast iron engine and hunted for the same. Was looking up for G2 engine but finally settled on B1 – 1975 model. I really enjoy possessing a CI that too with a heavy crank.
After all, as you said its the bikers choice what he wants to go for…
YS Reply
Can external oil pump be altered for CI engine?? if any one has any reference pl share the same. Regards – YS
Hi ,
With a very humble manner i want to ask and will eagerly wait for your answer, that i have a 1977 model bullet( having Chassis number B1694547FX and Engine Number 1694454) , I want to know whether it´s a G2 engine or B1 engine or neither of these .
As i came to know , re-introducing it to the British market in 1977 under the name ´Enfield´ and This was a period of stagnation for the Bullet, as the Indian owners did not make even basic improvements to the motorcycle, and the quality of parts dropped .
So i want to know whether my 1977 model bullet is of poor quality or
a good quality as like 1970 model .
I am waiting for your kind Response
SN Das
Hi all, I'm Raaj and a die hard Bulleteer and a proud owner of a 1989 CI, Trust me I used a TBTS 2008 and I really had a lot of hiccups also never gave me the pride and feel of riding a bull and hence sold it for a mear 50 K and got the 89 CI one for 72 grands … im loving every bit of it and every second while riding it, I just want to say the UCE lovers .. Guys try riding the real CI Bull once and make ur choice
Dear all can anyone please suggest me the best silencer for the new 2014 model classic chrome 500 i am really very confused with short bottle, mega phone, gold star, universal, chitti dolki, punjab silencer, sans inc….etc so please advise me
Hey guys m happy with the new engine as I don't have time for the maintainance of the old bull. But I really miss the thump. But the problem with new bullets is they have started using low quality parts. That's very frustrating. Parts used in old bulls were very good.
Hi can anyone help me sort out this.
I have a royal Enfield classic 500 which has just done 700 km on the clock and it is already making this metallic sound (like ringing a bell which is used on cattle) the tong tong sound beside the taped sounds.
Seems like people on this forum are quit knowledgeable in this regard. So I would be glad if you guys could kindly shed some light on this.
Well Done Bro!!!!
Although I don't own a Bullet, I always wanted to understand the Bullets engines: Thanks for a great write up…
I like my 1987 model bullet for the following reasons:
1. The exhaust beats
2. Not just 18 bhp, but the 32 Nm torque @ a low 3000 rpm
3. The gear shift on the right and brake on the left
4. The long swing, gentle kick that starts the engine
5. The requirement not to open the throttle while starting the engine
6. The method to shut the engine down, not switching off mind you, by pressing the decompression lever
7. The presence of the neutral finder
8. The presence of the manual decompression lever
9. The need to look at the ammeter and start the engine
10. The ignition key on the tool box and not on the head lamp or handle bar
11. The presence of a neutral position between every gear
12. The practice of checking oil level on the dip stick every morning
13. The setting of the tappet clearance through the window by feeling the rotational torque of the hemispherical cup and the lock nut
14. The setting of the frequency of engine beats by turning down the idling screw with a long screw driver and observing resonance of the front wheel
15. The visible oil supply tubes on the side of the engine
16. The two baby lamps on the head that saves headlight power
17. The simple idea of lubricating the chain with oil in the blow by
18. The design that allows removal of the rear wheel the pull of a bolt
19. The exhaust pulsation on the legs when standing behind the muffler
20. The sparkle of the black petrol tank and the tool box after a coat of wax polish
And the way my two sons can sit on the petrol tank with their feet on the crash guard !
I like my 1997 CI engine bullet , never face any problem.
Bullet is not the racing bike .
If u want to enjoy your ride go with old bullet.
The THUMP !
Enough said
UCE does not keep up with the changing times. My B500 just three months old does not start using kick for cold start. I requires extraordinary efforts to get the UCE engine to life despite using the techniques of @TDC, decompression, cranking.
ES is your best way if kick start fails (and it does all the time). Ordins arily every new bike should start right away but these UCEs are useless. They require efforts and all this for a huge sum of money. IT is big headache.
brother.. this is the waste review i had ever read..i am a proud owner of a 1975 bullet even gals or children can easily ride uce bullets and riding pleasure and quality is only for ci engines i dont think that uce engine has life after 5-6 years at that time my bull is now 41 year old but still like new one…people who didnt know about art of riding a ci engine says uce is perfect new bullet is just like pulser or any 100cc plastic bikes
Truly, the best comparison between cast iron and UCE ever read by me….. Last week i became a proud owner of classic 350…. I was in a doubt whether it was better than old bullet or not….
Thanks bro for putting an end to my questions…. Now i can proudly compare my bike to all those' who consider their old bike better…..
kudoos guys… I dont care bullet or any other bike… all i need is Indian made cruiser … which can keep me on road for longggggggg…
I would go for UCE 500..
Dear Enfielders…
@ Sanket, Will, HMD
Need Your help for the below question (same as SN Das's Question).
I am going to buy a 1978 model bullet and I want to know whether it's a G2 engine or B1 engine or neither of these .
As i came to know , re-introducing it to the British market in 1977 under the name 'Enfield' and This was a period of stagnation for the Bullet, as the Indian owners did not make even basic improvements to the motorcycle, and the quality of parts dropped .
So i want know whether the 1978 model bullet is of poor quality or
a good quality as like 1970 model .
I am waiting for your kind Response. Kindly please reply.
I value all GREAT THUMPER's inputs.
Happy Thumping
Thank you Jay for an insightful post (although I am reading this in 2016 🙂
I own a classic 500 (limited edition Despatch blue. Model: September 2015). I have done 1000 km as of today. I will be grateful if you can suggest me the following:
1. Should I switch to synthetic engine oil?
2. If yes, which brand will you suggest? Do I need to use additional treatment solutions like STP / Nulon?
So far, the only modification I have done is replacement of company fitted air filter with K&N filter.
Best regards
Nice article.
Happy thumping. I own a TB350… its about a year-and-a-half, and it has been a nice ride so far.
Bullets were firstly introduced for military during the world war era due to its easiness to remove parts due to its push-rod technology and it was a reliable machine at that time. I am admitting the fact that a new engine technology is mostly always better (In 98% cases). So new generation engine is comparatively more powerful and fuel efficient. My first bullet was a CI 350 1988 model-7.5 kg Lightweight crank. Lot of oil leaking issues and tappet maintenance was required on it before years but the ride was smooth. Then RE launched the new UCE models and i was tempted to try one. So sold my 1988 CI and bought a 2012 UCE Electra. Maintenance was less compared to CI but it was completely lacking the real bullet feel. Not the thump but the riding comfort, In simple terms more vibration produced by the UCE and most importantly the lack of torque. You left knee starts paining after riding it for 100kms over a road with lot of potholes. New gen UCE requires frequent gear shifts than a CI model that we can use like an autogear on its 3rd gear.
Needless to say after after using it for 100000 kms I had to deal with the engine work for my Electra and it cost me a bomb. the I realized my 3 parts engine on a CI bullet was easier to dismantle and maintain but the UCE is very expensive to deal with and requires more time to repair it. I thought it might be a problem with my particular model Electra. So i sold it off and bought a Classic 2015 Classic 500-heavy crank.(10.5kg). Te story was nt much different in classic also. There was no feel at all, it was simply like riding a Karizma. Even a school kid with cycle balance can ride it. But the real old bullet it requires wisdom, strength and patience to start and ride.
I was disappointed instead of buying another bike I borrowed different bikes from my friends. Tested almost every Bullet model. UCE classic 350, UCE standard 350-heavy crank. 1998 CI and a 2007 standard CI heavy crank.
Here it is…..at last I found my match and it was the old gen 2007 model CI standard heavy crank. Vibration free ride. Same old bullet feel. Less maintenance compared to very old models. More importantly the Engine repairs are quite easy and hustle free unlike UCE.
So here is my take after using RE bullets for all these years.
ADVANTAGES OF CI- Cheaper and easier for major works like Engine and gearbox maintenance due to its 3 parts design, Vibration free ride. More low end torque so less gear shifts are necessary. Neighbour kids will not t borrow your bike because they don't know how to start and ride it. Can outlast couple of generations due to easiness in repairs and inter-changeability of parts. The legendary sweet thump (if that counts), Legendary world war Era design.
DISADVANTAGES OF CI- Requires frequent care even though the parts and labour is cheaper. Lack of immediate throttle response and performance like other sporty models. Amateurs can't ride it ( For me it s a plus point anyway)
ADVANTAGES OF UCE- Requires less regular care, Good performance and economy. Easy to start and ride with self start, so less healthy people can use it.
DISADVANTAGES OF UCE- Very expensive for major repairs. Lack of torque with 5 speed gear is a real pain on roads in bad condition and roads with traffic, Engine design seems like a 200cc small one even though its 350cc. It is horrible to see lean under aged kids who rides UCE bullets over 100km/hour easily on highways. Its just another bike, completely lacks the real Bullet heritage. Not reliable at all comparing to Japanese machines.
I my opinion if RE wants to build reliable, economical easy to ride bikes with lesser pollution then make it reliable as a Honda or Yamaha or at least like a Bajaj. Now sadly the situation of Royal Enfield and UE Bullets are in the category of "NEITHER HERE NOR THERE".
I love royal Enfiled
I love royal Enfiled 350
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