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4 Best Pre Workout Supplements That Works [2019 Reviews Updated]
What are Pre Workout Supplements?
Working out is definitely a tedious task, no matter how much you enjoy it. However, if you are feeling drained out and low on energy, your workout session would become even more of a challenge. Supplements that are designed to give you effective bursts of energy before you sweat it out in the gym are known as pre workout supplements.
These supplements are equipped with ingredients that boost your levels of energy, improve your physical performance, increase your endurance and unleash the very best in you. These ingredients make the process of undertaking strenuous physical activity a lot easier. One of the chief ingredients in any legit pre workout supplement is creatine, a component proven to enhance your body's overall performance. Apart from creatine, these supplements contain various stimulants and amino acids that help you get the most out of any physical activity.
What do pre workout supplements do?
You must be curious about what these pre workout supplements do to you apart from boosting your energy levels? Well, they are even excellent for improving your focus and give you impressive muscle pumps. You should ideally take these supplements around 20-30 minutes as they get enough time to get digested into your system. With regards to this, even the best workout pills don't compare to the pre workout supplements.
To get a detailed perspective on these popular supplements, we spoke to several dietitians, gym instructors and fitness enthusiasts to note their views. It is a very common belief that while most of these products do fulfill their purpose, some of them are of no use, and are even potentially harmful. Additionally, it should be understood that pre workout supplement is intended for its specific usage. While some are ideal for men, others are good for women. Then there are pre workout supplements which work the best when used for weight loss. Regardless of their primary functionality, these are the best pre workout energy drinks.
As such, we have compiled the best pre workout supplements in this write-up, wherein we have categorized each pre workout supplement in this list with regards to what they are best used for. Without much ado, let's flex into the list:
The Best Pre Workout Supplements
Track by Blackwolf Workout: Best Pre Workout Supplement for Men
The Blackwolf Track is the best pre workout supplement for men and is one of the most effective pre workout supplements in general. This exceptional pre workout supplement boasts of a potent formulation that aids men in increasing their levels of focus, energy and workout even during the most physically demanding workout sessions.
It boasts of a whopping 25 ingredients in its formulation, all of which are crucial nutrients required by the human body during strenuous physical activities. In addition, these ingredients are blended in perfect quantity and combinations to make workouts less tiring and more enjoyable. The icing on the cake is that these ingredients are ones that are widely used in some of the most acclaimed muscle growth supplements and Blackwolf expertly combines it into their formulation.
By employing the Track into your workout regimen, taking on a rigorous workout session will easier than ever as it helps you recover your core muscle strength and reinforces them with just the right amount of energy to make your muscles stronger and firmer.
Blackwolf have come up with a product which has totally edged out the Organic Muscle pre workout, one of the most widely regarded products in this category. That indeed does speak a lot about the Track's remarkable efficiency.
As already mentioned, Track hosts a wide variety of ingredients that are blended in perfect combinations to bring out the beast in you. While the numbers round up to nearly 25, let us check out the major ingredients that this supplement comprises of:
As it is well known, this ingredient is perhaps the most essential one in any pre workout supplement. It gives you an instant outburst of energy. The Track has some of the best utilities of creatine and thus, it is the best creatine pre workout supplement.
Branched-Chain Amino Acids (BCAA)
This includes Leucine, L-Isoleucine and Valine, three potent amino acids which are critical for muscle anabolism.
One of the most popular stimulants, it is well known for its energetic bursts.
Taurine is one of the main ingredients in energy drinks. As such, this ingredient increases your alertness during workouts and promotes proper water balance in the body.
Citrulline Malate
This amino acid helps in increasing the levels of testosterone in a man's body, thereby contributing towards the build of muscle in the body.
Vitamins B6, B12 and C
These vitamins aid in the anabolism of muscles and in energizing your body.
Whey Protein Isolate
Blackwolf packs the goodness of whey protein, which is an essential protein for muscle growth.
Clarinol Conjugated Linoleic Acid
This fatty acid aids in the growth of muscle and the process of lipolysis.
How does the Blackwolf Track Pre Workout Supplement work?
The Blackwolf Track functions as a perfect pre workout that provides you with all the necessary nutrients that is critical during an intense workout session. The supplement works on the premise that in the concept of gym metabolism, your body requires a lot of bursts of energy to compensate for the much needed micro tears in your muscles that are responsible for helping you attain a toned, tough and ripped muscular structure. This is achieved by helping you in pushing the maxima of muscle strength. This makes the Track also the best pre workout for muscle gain.
These bursts of energy are suitably provided by creatine. Also, the BCAAs mentioned extensively help in muscle anabolism and in supplying your muscle with much needed energy. The supplement contains lots of vitamins and essential minerals that help in keeping fatigue at bay by lowering the oxidative stress, thereby delaying the effects of fatigue. The ingredients in Blackwolf Track keep a check on the free radicals and help your muscles reach their peak performance.
Finally, Blackwolf Track also helps in keeping you focused during the course of the workout and gives you the mental drive to push harder.
Blackwolf recommends you to take the pre workout supplement scoops 3 times a day. However, the intake of the supplement is a function of the amount of physical activity you are going to undertake.
1 scoop of the supplement contains 30gm of powder and it should be ideally taken 30 minutes before your workout session.
If you are new to working out, you should limit your intake to 1 scoop before your workout session while seasoned bodybuilders can take it more than once a day.
You can take the Track powder with water, fruit juice, skimmed milk, yogurt or milkshake.
We also suggest you to have a word with your gym instructor or fitness consultant in order to design a personalized dosage of the pre workout supplement. It is worth noting that the best results can be achieved by complimenting the consumption of the pre workout supplement with rigorous exercise and a well planned diet.
Side effects
There have been absolutely no reports of side effects being caused by the Backwolf Track pre workout supplement. It is safe for consumption regardless of whether you are a rookie or pro in working out.
The ingredients in the product are 100% safe and are mainly derived from plants. Also, the supplement is manufactured in labs that are approved by the Current Good Manufacturing Services (cGMP), which is enforced by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Why should you buy this product?
The Blackwolf Track pre workout supplement is our pick for the best pre workout supplement for men. It is literally the big bad wolf in the realm of pre workout supplements and it attains its credibility due to a host of reasons as mentioned below:
- Is composed of 100% active ingredients.
- It gives you very effective bursts of energy instantly.
- You see results very quickly; in a matter of 2-3 weeks only.
- It is rich in vitamins that help to combat fatigue and its effects.
- It promotes the growth of lean muscle.
- The supplement has ingredients that mentally motivate you to push harder and take on intense workout sessions.
- It helps to keep you focused and devote full concentration during workout sessions.
- The product helps in burning out unwanted fat deposits.
- It has no side effects and is 100% safe.
- The supplement can be used both by beginners and professionals.
Purchase, Prices and Offers
A single bottle of Blackwolf Track contains 15 servings and has 450gms of pre workout supplement powder. You can buy it at $44.95, wherein you save 18% from the original price of $54.95.
Shipping is free worldwide.
The package includes free Blackwolf shakers, free Premium Blackwolf training guide (worth $195) and a 14 days return policy.
Buy the Blackwolf Track pre workout supplement here.
FitMiss Ignite: Best Pre Workout Supplement for Women
The FitMiss Ignite is the best pre workout supplement for women. Armed with amazing functionality, ingredients and a formulation that is more than perfect for a woman, this product is one of the most popular pre workout supplements ever. Not to mention, it tastes absolutely delicious!
The product is manufactured by MusclePharm, is widely regarded for its supreme products and the FitMiss Ignite is no exception to the quality of products it produces. It effectively rounds up as an energy booster while also providing ample mental motivation to take on intense workout sessions. You might have noticed the term "Ignite" in the product's namesake. This implies to this pre workout supplement's functionality in igniting unwanted fat deposits and thereby helps you in achieving a lean and mean figure. Furthermore, this supplement boasts of nootropic effects ensuring that your brain is attended to as well. The amount of focus pre workout supplements are supposed to give is fulfilled to the optimum with the nootropic characteristics that the FitMiss Ignite boasts of.
The FitMiss Ignite contains a proprietary blend of ingredients and as such, there is no clarity in the exact quantity of each ingredient constituted within this pre workout supplement. However, the product does boast of some potent ingredients which work together to bring out the amazing functionality. Over to the ingredients now:
This amino acid helps in boosting your alertness and keeping your focus during the rigorous workout sessions.
Another amino acid, it helps in promoting proper blood flow into the brain, boosts your mental functions and keeps you in a good mood.
This powerful ingredient helps in converting fat into energy by transporting the fats into the mitochondria. This results in the loss of fat.
It is a powerful stimulant that makes you more alert and keeps the central nervous system.
Beet Root extract
It enhances the flow of blood into the brain.
Popularly used in energy drinks, this ingredient makes you more alert and maintains a healthy water balance during your workout sessions.
Beta Alanine
It helps to build lean muscle mass and improves the overall athletic performance of the body. It also builds endurance.
How does the FitMiss Ignite work?
The FitMiss Ignite follows a holistic approach in exercising its functionality, which is an outcome of the ingredients that this supplement consists of. For instance, the Beta Alanine works on improving the overall physical performance of a woman's body and is also extremely functional in improving the body's endurance in a natural way.
The other ingredients help in enhancing the flow of blood into the brain, keeping you alert, focused and mentally driven. All of this is achieved with the feasibility of the body to handle fatigue, courtesy of the ingredients. It is also worth noting that the FitMiss Ignite pre workout supplement burns out (or ignites) the unwanted fat deposits and converts it into useful energy that us employed during workouts.
You should ideally mix 1 scoop of FitMiss Ignite with a mug of water
It should be drunk around 30 minutes before your workout in order to derive the maximum benefit out of the supplement.
Side effects
The FitMiss Ignite pre workout supplement does have any side effects per se. That said, it should absolutely not be taken by pregnant or breastfeeding women. Furthermore, if you are sensitive to stimulants like caffeine, then you should refrain from taking this pre workout supplement.
Why should you buy this product?
The FitMiss Ignite is undoubtedly the best pre workout supplement for woman. This fruity supplement comes with a host of characteristics that make it ideal to be consumed by a woman. These are:
- The FitMiss Ignite pre workout supplement boasts of a delicious taste.
- It is one of the cheaper products available.
- The formulation of the supplement is free from creatine and serves as a good alternative.
- The product is safe to use and has no side effects.
- It comes with nootropic effects that keep your mind focused and alert.
- Builds endurance.
- Supports the growth of lean muscle.
- The supplement helps your body to burn unwanted fat.
Purchase, Prices and Offers
A single bottle of FitMiss Ignite contains 30 servings and has 225gms of pre workout supplement powder. It is priced at $26.99.
Buy the Fitmiss Ignite here.
NitroSurge Shred: Best Pre Workout Supplement for Weight Loss
The NitroSurge Shred by Jacked Factory rounds up as the ideal pre workout supplement to go for if you are specifically focused on losing weight during your workout sessions. This amazing product comes with a host of ingredients that are shown to help with the burning of fat and thereby aid in shedding the pounds. However, like any weight loss product, it isn't a miracle supplement. Relying on these supplements alone won't seal the deal for you. One needs to effectively compliment the intake of this pre workout supplement with a properly planned diet and rigorous exercise. In a nutshell, the NitroSurge Shred is designed to accelerate your weight loss process and is also a great pre work out for beginners.
AmpedOne pre workout was the top pre workout supplement for weight loss till 2015. But since then, the NitroSurge Shred has decisively taken the lead and has maintained it. In addition, NitroSurge Shred has also surpassed the thermogenic functionality of the No Xplode pre workout. As you can see, the NitroSurge Shred has been carving a niche for itself by overtaking former best pre workout supplements for weight loss. Props to Jacked Factory for this!
The ingredients present in this pre workout supplement are integral to the functionality of the product as a whole. It is due to these ingredients that the supplement achieves the process of burning unwanted fat and helping you to lose weight. One of the most attractive features of this product is the fact that the formulation is very straight forward. No beating around the bush as it gives you a clear cut picture of the list and quantity of ingredients. With that being said, let us check out the potent ingredients comprising this supplement that makes it the best pre workout supplement for cutting and weight loss:
L-Citrulline (3gms)
Popularly found in watermelon, L-Citrulline is an essential ingredient is one of the chief inclusions to any pre workout supplement intended for weight loss. It helps in increasing the levels of nitric oxide consequently promoting the flow of fresh oxygenated blood through the body. It also helps in avoiding high blood pressure by dilating the blood vessels.
Beta Alanine (1.6gms)
Another supreme ingredient in any pre workout supplement, this amino acid is super effective in enhancing your overall athletic performance, contributing towards the build of lean muscle mass and promote your capacity to exercise more rigorously. Beta Alanine pills are widely used by both beginners and athletes as a legal means to boost the overall physical performance and the presence of this ingredient in this supplement brings out that functionality in an optimal way.
Caffeine Anhydrous (180mg)
Perhaps the most well known ingredient in any pre workout supplement, caffeine is the premier choice in stimulants and it helps in supporting you during intense workout sessions.
L-Theanine (90mg)
This ingredient is always tagged along with caffeine and it aims to reduce the side effects of caffeine. We strongly feel that the 180mg of caffeine present in this supplement is a bit more than we would have liked and as such, the inclusion of L-Theanine is very welcome indeed.
Betaine Anhydrous (1.25gms)
This ingredient helps to improve your overall physical performance and your body composition.
Theobromine (50mg)
A close cousin of caffeine, this ingredient is derived from coffee bean or chocolate and aims to make you feel energetic during your workout sessions.
Theobromine (50mg)
A close cousin of caffeine, this ingredient is derived from coffee bean or chocolate and aims to make you feel energetic during your workout sessions.
AstraGin- Black Pepper Extract (25mg)
This potent ingredient aims to boost the effectiveness of the other ingredients. It also produces heat which aids in the burning of fat.
Hordenine HCL (25mg)
When coupled with caffeine, it gives you great energy bursts.
How does the NitroSurge Shred work?
The NitroSurge Shred comes with thermogenic functionality. The supplement consists of ingredients which work together to pave the way for metabolic stimulation, or in other words, boosting your metabolism. This automatically translates to the production of heat that effectively burns the unwanted fat deposits and helps you in losing weight. The icing on the cake is that while the supplement works towards burning up fat, it also hosts ingredients that help in the production of lean muscle mass and keep you energetic throughout.
Before you inculcate this pre workout supplement for daily usage, we suggest you to first access the product for your tolerance by taking 1 scoop of the supplement with 8-10 ounces of water, about 30 minutes before working out.
Once you develop a hang of the pre workout supplement, you can mix 2 scoops of the supplement with 12-20 ounces of water, about 30 minutes before working out.
Side effects
While the supplement has no side effects as such, but one must pay heed to the caffeine content in the supplement. While 180mg is a pretty decent amount, one must ensure to not take this supplement before bedtime or if you are sensitive to the effects of stimulants like caffeine.
Why should you buy this product?
Jacked Factory has made a fantastic pre workout supplement which aptly helps you to lose weight. This product is also hugely popular among people and boasts of a pretty high re-order rate. Here's why:
- This supplement effectively helps to accelerate the process of losing weight.
- It boasts of a thermogenic functionality which burns out the unwanted fat in your body. This makes this product the best pre workout for fat loss.
- The product has a very clear cut description of its ingredients in a lucid label.
- It is safe to use and has no side effects.
- The supplement comes in tasty flavors such as orange pineapple and fruit punch.
- It boosts the levels of nitric oxide, thereby contributing towards better flow of oxygenated blood through the body,
- The supplement contains the combination of caffeine and l-theanine, which keeps the side effects of the stimulant at bay.
- The product is relatively cheap.
Purchase, Prices and Offers
A single tub of NitroSurge Shred by Jacked Factory contains 30 servings and has 240gms of pre workout supplement powder. It is priced at $29.99.
Buy the NitroSurge Shred here.
Pumped-AF: Best Pre Workout Supplement for Pump
Many people pursue pump. A pump is achieved when your muscles temporarily bulge due to an enhanced inflow of blood into them. You have ripped muscles sticking out of the skin. That's pump. Pumped-AF boasts of a set of ingredients which help to attain this state. The icing on the cake is that this pre workout supplement is totally free from stimulants. This makes Pumped-AF one of the best pre workout supplements without caffeine.
In addition to giving your muscle the best pumps possible, this supplement also hydrates your muscles effectively. This helps to avoid sprains and reinforces your muscles for more. It almost feels like your muscles are made out of steel. Oh! Did we mention that the company behind this amazing this amazing pre workout supplement is Steel? How justified!
Pumped-AF comes with a meager yet potent set of ingredients that give your muscles amazing pumps. It is truly amazing how a few ingredients minus any stimulants work to make one of the best pre workout supplements ever. So it is pretty obvious that these ingredients are some really fine ones. Let's see what Pumped-AF has in store:
L-Citrulline (4gms)
Blood flow into the muscles creates pumps. So the inclusion of L-Citrulline is pretty logical here. This ingredient is primarily responsible for pumping fresh oxygenated blood into your muscles and giving you those pumps.
Beta Alanine (3.2gms)
This ingredient helps in building your endurance during intense workouts by keeping a check on the muscle fatigue caused by the rising levels of acidity, thus ensuring that your workout session goes without any hassles or pain.
Betaine Anhydrous (2.5gms)
This ingredient is super effective in attracting water and as such works as an excellent hydrating agent for the muscles. In addition, it also keeps you energetic throughout.
Beta Vulgaris
It helps in relaxing your arteries and veins, whilst maintaining a good pump for a longer period of time.
Boosts the flow of blood into the muscles.
Boosts your performance and helps in maintaining a pump.
How does the Pumped-AF work?
Free from stimulants and a crowd of ingredients, this pre workout supplement adopts a simplistic yet involving process to pump p your muscles during workout. While there are other minor ingredients, the trio of L-Citrulline, Beta Alanine and Betaine Anhydrous effectively combine to give your muscles the desired levels of pumps while also ensuring that your muscles are not adversely affected due to all the tremendous amounts of blood flowing into them.
As mentioned, your muscles are also kept appropriately hydrated during the course of your workout and the ingredients make sure that your muscles don't feel the effects of lactic acid accumulation. This also results in increased exercise capacity and endurance. As a result of this, the pump produced is partly due to the blood inflow and partly due to the stored water in the muscle cells.
The trio of Beta Vulgaris, Nitrite and Kre-Alkalyn help in relaxing your arteries and maintain a pump for long periods of time.
For men: You should ideally take 1 scoop of the supplement with 16 ounces of water, about 30 minutes before working out.
For women: You should ideally take 1/2 scoop of the supplement with 16 ounces of water, about 30 minutes before working out.
Side effects
This amazing pre workout supplement is free from any form of stimulants and contains an array of potent ingredients which equip you with enough energy to get tremendous pumps. In addition, the product has no side effects to be worried about. The unique hydration functionality of this product even goes on to keep the effects of lactic acid accumulation at bay. Last but not the least, the ingredients help to relax your arteries and veins, thereby ensuring that there is absolutely no pain or discomfort both during and after workout.
Why should you buy this product?
The Pumped-AF by Steel is the best pre workout supplement for getting pumps. It comes with unique functionalities and efficiency that makes it a huge favorite among fitness enthusiasts and body builders. Here's why you should absolutely buy this product:
- The supplement gives you the best pumps when compared to any of its peers.
- It promotes a healthy inflow of blood into the muscles.
- There is absolutely no worry about feeling the after effects of lactic acid accumulation in the muscles.
- It effectively hydrates your muscles.
- Your arteries and veins are relaxed after the workout sessions.
- The supplement is free from stimulants.
- It has no side effects.
- It increases your training capacity and endurance levels.
- The supplement paves the way for greater strength output.
- The manufacturer provides you with clear guidelines for its usage.
Other good pre workout supplements
The pre workout supplements mentioned in this article are undoubtedly the best in their craft. However, there are other similar pre workout supplements that are absolutely fantastic in their own right and didn't make the cut in this article probably because they were second best! We have presented just one pre workout supplement in each of the categories covered and as such, it is quite possible that your gym instructor has advised you a product which isn't on this list. In a nutshell, these products very well define what a good pre workout is.
In order to preserve credibility for the other products, here is a list of 'other' top 5 pre workout supplements which are amazing in their own right, and are guaranteed entrants into the top 10 pre workout supplements in general:
Vintage Blast Pre Workout review:
With a focus on the very basics, this product literally takes you Old School (yeah, that's the name of the company behind this product) and equips you to be active and energetic during intense workouts courtesy of its 2 stage setup.
Cellucor C4 Pre Workout review:
This OG supplements gives you a high burst of energy with its relatively high dosage of caffeine. If you are a fan of caffeine, this is just the one for you. You will love the variety of flavors it offers!
Beast Mode Pre Workout review:
With its low content of caffeine and the high endurance levels that it offers, this is a favorite among beginners. It also gives you a very pleasing burst of energy that is more than enough to take on intense workout sessions.
Six Star Pre Workout Explosion review:
This is one of the cheapest pre workout supplements out there and it backs up as a quality products with its huge bursts of energy, amazing taste and consistency. A very suitable pre workout supplement for beginners.
Legion Pulse Pre Workout review:
The best energy drink analogy for a pre workout supplement, the Legion Pulse is one of the strongest ones out there. It is worth noting, though, that it is way stringer than any energy drink. It gives you high levels of energy and a very admirable power output.
Some factors regarding pre workout supplements
Pre workout supplements have become one of the most popular trends among fitness enthusiasts, bodybuilders, gym instructors and athletes. Furthermore, they are widely acclaimed for their functionality and effectiveness, thereby having a high re-order rate on Amazon as well. While the products highlighted in our list are indeed the best ones in their craft, there are a few important factors which must be kept in mind when using these products. These are highlighted below:
Presence of stimulants:
Most pre workout supplements come with stimulants, with the most popular being the good old caffeine. This makes them a strong pre workout. While the quantities of caffeine present in these products are the best rated pre workout supplements, it must be kept in mind to not use these supplements before bedtime as it might trigger insomnia. Also, if you happen to have sensitivity towards stimulants like caffeine, we suggest you to go for a pre workout supplement that lacks caffeine.
Taking pre workout supplements:
This is one of the most important points to be kept in mind regarding any pre workout supplement. They have got the "pre" in their namesake for a reason. As such, you must take a pre workout supplement 30 minutes before you start working out.
Nootropic characteristics:
Almost any pre workout supplement contains ingredients that promote the flow of blood into different parts of the body, which also includes the brain. The inflow of oxygenated blood into the brain boosts cognitive functions such as focus, concentration, alertness and mental drive; all of which are crucial for a successful and productive workout session.
Natural process:
These products help you in achieving your goals in a naturally progressive and safe manner.
For women:
While a pre workout supplement can be taken by both men and women in general, it is important to note that the dosage of the supplement powder for women is usually less than that for men. You should refer the instructions for usage carefully before you start using these supplements. Finally, if you a pregnant or breastfeeding woman, you should stay away from pre workout supplements.
Pre-workout reviews:
Every product covered in this list is widely acclaimed and used by people from various backgrounds. Be it a gym instructor, fitness professional or online reviews, people have been raving about the effectiveness and working of these supreme pre workout supplements. It has helped them to make the task of working out an easier and more enjoyable affair.
Diet and exercise:
No pre workout supplement is a miracle product. Just the intake of these supplements alone won't suffice in getting the best out of these products. You must tag along a properly planned diet and rigorous exercise in order to achieve your goals and expectations.
Scientific Research
There is a widespread usage of nutrients in supplements to improve your overall physical performance and prepare your body for strenuous activity. The pre-workout supplements listed in this article are essentially multi-ingredient pre-workout supplements (MIPS) and has generated a huge buzz among fitness enthusiasts and sportspersons. The
Scientific Research
There is a widespread usage of nutrients in supplements to improve your overall physical performance and prepare your body for strenuous activity. The pre-workout supplements listed in this article are essentially multi-ingredient pre-workout supplements (MIPS) and has generated a huge buzz among fitness enthusiasts and sportspersons. The MIPS is a cautious composition of ingredients like branched amino acids, caffeine, creatine, nitrates, beta-alanine and other substances that can very well improve performance during regular exercise regime. Not kept hidden from the eyes, such combinations are often represented under the 'proprietary blend' tag in undisalosable figures because of the ordering norm as given by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
The powerful MIPS structures are indeed responsible for bringing out improvement in exercise performance ability. These critical changes are such that when combines with a well designed workout regime, the duo can give off unimaginable results.
The crucial ingredients used to make MIPS formulation can be brightly understood as under:
Amino acids and amino-containing compounds:
One of the most popular compound in this category is Taurine – an ingredient that is commonly found in energy drinks. About 1.5g taurine in total MIPS mix can improve muscular endurance during intense exercising.
BCAAs are often a part of MIPS for their ability to help in protein synthesis which is essential for muscle gains.
This ingredient is often held responsible for the several ergogenic effects of MIPS mix. Caffeine has actively shown to improve performance during endurance training, overall power and cognition when it is consumed in measured doses. It also acts as an adenosine receptor.
Otherwise complex, the presence of creatine (3g) in MIPS mix in diet when consumed for 28 days has the potential to increase performance during exercise and supports a spectrum of training adaptations.
Nitric oxide is important for the human body as it helps in synthesis of protein and helps in ensuring more blood flow throughout. The increased blood flow is sure to bring more endurance and stamina even during the most physically demanding workout session. Though present naturally in the body, taking supplements that particular have ample NO in it is sure to help ur body. Note that, it is also important to have compounds in the body that can introduce nitrogen retention so that whenever the body is in need of digesting nutrients, there is a catalyst to help that happen.
This beta component is a common sight in MIPS mix. It is precursor to carnosine that acts as an intramuscular buffer. It increases performance ability drastically upon daily 4-6g consumption.


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text:
Today's rant: A secret code I didn't even know I knew
I recently had a new intern start her summer internment. She is a high school student, and so far she has really impressed me with her work ethic, common sense, ability to follow directions, etc. She's a sharp one.
Today I asked her to summarize some notes from a writer. I gave her a folder which contained a few pages of ruled notebook paper with the writer's handwritten notes. "Please read through this, and summarize the content to me in an email message."
Turns out she can't read cursive writing. She was able to make out a word or two, but only because the writer has impeccable script. I guess they just don't teach that in school anymore.
My curiosity compelled me to dig deeper. Turns out the school district dropped cursive and started pushing typing classes. I asked her to speculate why, and she said her English teacher told her it was because cursive just wasn't in vogue anymore, and digital technology was the future. Cursive writing, which has existed in it's various forms for well over 1,000 years… has gone out of vogue. Technology, which requires electricity and expensive electronics are causing the pencil and paper to go extinct.
Already, many kids can't solve a math problem without a calculator. Now they won't be able to write anything without a keyboard?
Don't get me wrong… I've had interns come in here and the kids couldn't use a keyboard or mouse because their entire interaction with technology has been with their thumbs on a smartphone touch screen.
But is this really the end of cursive writing? I guess parents will be able to use it to hide secrets from the kiddies?
- 23 comments, 145 replies
- Comment
I'm wearing this shirt today.
@narfcake Fortuitous!
@narfcake @ruouttaurmind Serendipitous!
@narfcake @ruouttaurmind @therealjrn
Uh… Uh… Uh, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
@Barney @narfcake @ruouttaurmind @therealjrn prestidigitastic!
I would purchase that excellent t-shirt, only the current shirt.woot! pricing offends me.
/giphy the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
@eonfifty @RiotDemon You passed the test RD!
@eonfifty @therealjrn just don't ask me to write a capital cursive Z.
@eonfifty @RiotDemon Mine always looked like big 2's when my draconian elementary school MADE me use cursive.
@eonfifty @RiotDemon Maybe it's the Q I was thinking of…either way…yuck. lol Cursive is HELL for a left-handed person!
@eonfifty Excellent!
@therealjrn eh… quit your bitchin I can write in cursive with either hand – just cuz, I am weird like that …
But it is messier to write left-handed …
@mikibell Maybe if they had called it something cool like "Silver Surfer Syndrome" I would have stuck with it…
Also, quit being that annoying girl that always ended up sitting next to me.
@therealjrn seriously, it was completely because I was bored. And maybe the girl chose to sit next to you because you are so darn cute!!
@eonfifty @RiotDemon @therealjrn haha… my maiden surname starts with a Z and I'm not so great at it either.
@mikibell and I can write cursive backwards. For reasons unknown I decided to practice doing that in late grade school or junior high or something.
…but there is a practical use to learning cursive.
Learning to write in cursive is shown to improve brain development in the areas of thinking, language and working memory. Cursive handwriting stimulates brain synapses and synchronicity between the left and right hemispheres, something absent from printing and typing.
Additionally, "Handwriting therefore may facilitate reading acquisition in young children."
Research paper here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274624/
Not to get all meta, but sometimes the point of doing something isn't the immediately visible result, but going through the process is where the benefit lies.
@canuk Wax on, wax off. Amirite?
sometimes the point of doing something isn't the immediately visible result, but going through the process is where the benefit lies.
Yeah, and my Dad used to pull that shit on me when it came time to pull weeds. :sniff: I miss my Dad.
@simssj exactly. these people getting rid of cursive are usually the same people who think we don't have to memorize anything any more because you can "just Google it."
@canuk There is also research that students who take notes by hand (vs computer vs notes on copies of power point slides) get higher grades too.
@canuk @Kidsandliz I work in front of a computer and keyboard (SW engineer), yet I take lots of notes by hand, on paper. Just an old-school habit, I guess, but I remember things better when I write them by hand. I can also usually find items that I have written in my notebook easier than in files. My hand-written notes are in a strange mixture of cursive and block printing.
@Kidsandliz @macromeh You have to be careful about that research though (I'm in education, specifically the technology part of it and oh yes has this research paper been discussed!) and people want to throw out all digital note taking. It's not that the computer/tablet/whatever is the problem, it's because the technique changes. People who take notes on computer, but use the technique of summarizing, reforming, and diagramming do just fine. The problem occurs when people transcribe is when they get very little benefit from note taking. I've found OneNote to be a great tool that feels organic the way handwritten note can be taken: you can write anywhere, it has some good tools to help highlight and diagram. You just have to be disciplined not to fall into transcribing what is happening in the class. When you reform the ideas into your own words, it's getting stuck in your memory better. I saw a Moleskin or something that had a saying on it "I'm not taking notes to remember it later, I'm taking notes to remember it now." which I thought was pretty close.
@canuk Pah, all propaganda pushed by cursive lobbyists in DC to promote Big Cursive's "agenda"
@ThomasF it's really all a part of Big Education's agenda. We should all just stay home and watch Netflix.
@canuk However there are brain scans where they see that if people take hand written notes more parts of their brain lights up while doing do. Then when they try to recall that info all those parts light up again. There was some other study that documented that the more parts of your brain you park stuff in the easier it is to retrieve.
The study I am talking about is 2018 there were 3 conditions, type your class notes, handwrite your class notes, have copies of the powerpoint slide and add to that whatever you want. In the first two cases they could still summarize. Controlling for GPA, ACT, previous class grades in that class on tests and assignments, there was about a 1/2 letter grade difference between hand written and power point, there was also a sig difference between hand and type written although not as large. I'd guess the more of your brain lights up has something to do with it, perhaps also you have to summarize more handwritten since generally people can type faster than they can handwrite.
Cursive? Kill it with fire.
@einaschern I cursive and analog clocks.
@Barney @einaschern I analog clocks. I cursive.
@Barney @einaschern @therealjrn analog clocks are great, as are other analog dials. They found that a digital representation of something requires a higher cognitive load because you have to interpret the numbers individually. With an analog clock or other dials, you can memorize the shape of the hands and more quickly internalize what the dial is telling you. They found this out when trying to switch to higher-tech displays in aircraft.
This is why even on a "glass cockpit" (screens instead of "old dials"), some information is represented in that way.
Now for an entirely different type of code, let's all try to figure out what the hell this script is supposed to say. Ignore 'xray order' on the side, that was written after. This is something we deal with every single day at work. I personally believe anyone who is given the power to write a prescription should be required to pass a handwriting class. Fortunately, this is (obviously) for an imaging order and not a medicine. If people wonder how lethal mistakes are made in pharmacies, this is a perfect example.
For the record, none of us could figure out for sure what is written there. Fortunately we know the patient well and why they typically have an x-ray so we verified what it should be and they had their study. Now, can you properly guess what x-ray they were supposed to have?
@cinoclav I wonder if this is why so many prescriptions are sent electronically now. All the prescriptions I've seen in person in the last few years have been computer printed and then maybe signed by the doctor, but a lot of time it was an electronic signature.
@cinoclav @RiotDemon My prescriptions are required to be electronically filed if I'm using insurance. I did have a specific type of medicine last year that was not covered but had to be filled at a specific compounding pharmacy. That one I hand carried to the place.
@RiotDemon @therealjrn Ideally, all prescriptions would be sent electronically. Many of our imaging orders come through an order facilitator which registration can pull from. However, the fact that it's a small community hospital in NJ means many patients go to specialists in the Cooper system (based in Camden, NJ) or in the world class hospitals in Philly and they don't have access to our systems. The goal has been to create a nationwide medical record system which would streamline the entire process. All pharmacies and medical facilities could access a patient's pertinent information and prescriptions. Of course once this happens I give it less than a week before it's hacked.
@cinoclav When I was in undergrad for engineering, we had to learn a standard technical lettering system specifically to avoid stuff like this.
@cinoclav @RiotDemon @therealjrn
i worked in an ER many moons ago. doc brings me a chart to have me order some lab work and a CT. i read through it and get to the CT order. it says "CT groin". trauma patient comes in, so the doc will be tied up for a while. i ask the nurse sitting next to me, and she says "CT groin". it's sunday, so i have to call the on-call CT tech. she comes in and says "are you sure he ordered a groin CT?". i show her the paper and she agrees.
she goes back to get everything prepped. she comes to pick up the patient, and the doc is walking out of the trauma room. i can't hear them, but they have a little convo and i see him shaking his head.
he then comes over to me, points at the chart and asks "what does that say?". i reply, "CT groin". he gather 3-4 nurses (that weren't there when he first asked me) and i hand the chart around to them. he says to me "if they all agree with you, i'll bring in donuts and bagels for the week". sure enough, they all said "CT groin". after shaking his head some more, he finally proclaims, "it says 'CT brain'!"
tl;dr - doc wrote "CT brain". we all thought it said "CT groin". no one got their junk scanned. we all for bagels/donuts for a week.
@carl669 That's great. Though the fact that there's no specific CT order for a groin would certainly make me question it. Pelvis, hips, femurs - all choices. Groin? Our CT techs would give that a solid 'what the fuck?'
@cinoclav yeah, i figured the convo between the doc and tech was to get something more specific.
@cinoclav is that English?
@tinamarie1974 Barely. That first part is supposed to say 'KUB.'
@cinoclav that is embarrassing.
@tinamarie1974 So is all the work this particular doctor does. I always suggest second opinions.
@cinoclav @tinamarie1974 I, uh, don't see that. At all.
@cinoclav @tinamarie1974 KUB=Kidneys-Ureters-Bladder! I learned something today, and not a moment too soon.
@cinoclav Now, can you properly guess what x-ray they were supposed to have?
The patient's name was Bill.
Doc wrote, "William is die".
RIP in Peace, Bill. RIP in Peace.
Fuck cursive. Let's go back to cuneiform.
@Pavlov If we're getting all sentimental about preserving history and stuff, why not drop written language altogether. Spoken language came first, after all.
@medz @Pavlov Let's just stop communicating all together. It's the source of all problems anyway. Or at least go back even further. Let's stick to "Grunt and point."
@medz The Inca did ok without written language. There was that issue of human sacrifice though . . .
*actually, what you are referring to is called "long hand" writing. And while I can read it, I don't write it due to limitations that exist in my person. I should file for disability.
Well, a google search says it is not true, but for some really strange reason I was under the impression that check amounts had to be written in cursive. I have always done it even though I hate cursive writing. I don't know if I am gonna stop using now or not.
@mfladd Hm…I think I remember hearing that too. But I can't tell you when or where–probably from Mom showing me how to write checks from my account when I was 11. I stopped doing that when the school allowed me to quit flailing away at long hand. I think I noticed by then that my paychecks from work were printed albeit machine printed, but still…
@mfladd you have probably frustrated several young bank tellers by now with this kind of behavior.
@mfladd No No No. The written/text check amount is more important than the numeric amount. It MUST be legible. I was taught cursive. I can read it and write it, but I can read printed text much easier with less guess work as to what the person was trying to write.
Cursive is faster to write, but not easier to read.
@therealjrn I wrote my first check today without using cursive. Oh happy days!
I knew there was a famous case where a girl was asked to read cursive and it was a shock that she couldn't read it.
I write in cursive, but mostly so my kids can't forge my signature on notes. I have that classic catholic school handwriting – Palmer method
@therealjrn I hope my children are smarter than that… BUT, it is just a hope They do forge my husband's scribble … but not without permission.
@mikibell I think some of these cute "look what my kid did" posts are a little suspicious…let's hope fruits of our loins are a little smarter than this example.
The grifts just get bigger as they get older–just last week my adult daughter (with 4 of her own children) "accidentally" used my Discover card in her pizza app. I paid for pizza like over a year ago and let her use my card–I probably need to change the number now. But I probably won't lol.
@therealjrn I agree about the posts. ohhh the pizza is minor. My dad gives me a thumb drive of all his accounts and passwords every time they travel. If I wanted to be evil, I could be rich!!!
Did it make you smile when you realized you paid for the pizza (after the shock of an unauthorized charge??) I would leave it alone too!
@therealjrn My kid tried to do that for a 4th grade parent excuse note about homework. She spelled my first name wrong LOL.
@mikibell LOL, yeah, I'll leave it alone. I can afford to buy her and the grands a pizza or two. I did have to ask her about it to make sure the Discover card or the pizza company wasn't "hacked." She used a different store from before so it was a real UFO transaction.
@mikibell At the beginning of every school year, my parents had to sign some form or another, and send it in with me.
I would carefully copy the signatures, in my best forged calligraphy, and save it for a rainy day.
It may or may not have rained.
@G1 @mikibell you missed the obvious correct method to do that… just sign the original yourself.
My wife had a note from her mom refused once because her mom actually signed it… not her!
Let's mandate the return of cursive, and stick shift transmissions, and disenfranchise a whole generation!
@ruouttaurmind I asked this question previously.
But maybe you should ask it again. It's been two years and we have different mehtizens on the forum.
@Barney I usually host half a dozen or so interns each year. They come from high school, community college and university journalism programs. This is the first one who cannot read cursive longhand script (covering all the bases; nod to @theraljrn). This is the future. At least for this particular school district. In August I'll have a high school student for the fall term. She's from a different district, so I will be able to review the topic then.
@Barney @ruouttaurmind On the bright side, I bet they are whizzes at untangling your gmail folders!
@therealjrn I'll have to ask about that. I have had other interns who don't use email in their personal lives. They rely on social media and texting.
As someone who was forced to learn cursive back in the Middle Ages when I was in grade school, I'm happy to see it end. I hated it, and it took more time to do it legibly than it did to print letters. Then in the 8th grade, when I got to chose between a class in HomeEc or Shop, I learned how to do the hand-lettered font you see on blueprints. (Obviously in Shop class. Does anyone here think I would opt for HomeEc? ) I found that I could print it fast and legibly, and even keep it in even rows. It has worked well over the years to take notes, write checks, and write on chalkboards when teaching classes.
However, fast cursive was also useful, after a fashion. I really hated college lectures where the instructor was just repeating what was in the book but expected everyone to be furiously taking notes. I found that if I scribbled notes in my mostly-illegible cursive, I could write shopping lists, notes to myself, and strings of expletive-laced comments about the instructor's teaching style, while looking like I was taking notes. It wasn't as if anyone else could read it, even the wandering instructor.
@rockblossom I took HomeEc. I remember writing fake checks and balancing a fake checkbook. I also learned how to sew buttons and stitch-up small holes in clothing.
Today, I handle the family finances as well as any clothing and stuffed animal repairs that need sewing. I also do the typical DIY handyman stuff around the house, so I think I'm a pretty well-rounded person. Thanks, HomeEc!
@medz @rockblossom A lot of kids/teens have no idea anymore how to write checks. As a cashier I've taught some how to fill them out. I'm okay with filling out a check for someone who has vision problems or can no longer write very well, but I'll talk through those who just don't know how to write a check.
I have a relative who teaches and we were discussing this very topic recently. So in addition to cursive writing they are considering a discontinue of learning to read an analog clock. WTH
@tinamarie1974 Interesting you mentioned that. I was compelled to ask about that very subject. She has indicated that was covered in 3rd or 4th year. Of course that would be around 10 years ago, so no indication what's happening currently.
@ruouttaurmind I am not sure if this is a nationwide initiative, but it is being seriously considered just outside of STL
@tinamarie1974 I have never been to the Detroit airport, but if the clocks there are analog ones, this would be fantastic.
Skip ahead to the 1:27 mark…
You are conflating writing in cursive to writing anything at all using a writing utensil on paper, which isn't fair. There is no practical use for cursive, and aside from writing their signatures (which are increasingly becoming digital) most people don't use it at all. Printing words in standard characters takes less time and is universally legible. Personally, I can read cursive just fine, provided the text isn't chickenscratch, but I haven't written cursive in earnest in over a decade now. I'm still not sure why it was even taught in grade school…I've never overtly required it.
Your secondary point about doing math without a calculator is also similarly addressable, though not to the same extent. The average person won't ever need to do math in their head more serious than basic addition, subtraction, and so forth, but even if they did, every handheld device these days has a calculator in it. Advanced mathematics is definitely a requirement for careers involving its use, but it's not really fair to say elementary age students should need to know how to do long division in their heads these days. Calculators weren't nearly as prevalent decades ago, so back then, it made perfect sense…today, not so much.
@PooltoyWolf Mechanically speaking, cursive is faster and easier provided one is right-handed. You don't have to waste motion picking up and putting down your writing implement. It was just my luck to have been born left-handed. Pushing that damn pencil is much harder than pulling it.
And people do have to have a sense of numbers. Recently I was in a business meeting for a local non-profit and 30 people in the room were looking at the same treasurer's report that I was, but I was the only one to speak up about what appeared to me to be a pretty big discrepancy. But for some reason, some people's brains shut down looking at numbers.
They agreed and scheduled an audit–it turned out to be just a mistake.
@therealjrn Cursive is only faster than printing if you take the time to properly learn and practice it, and unfortunately the time saved is usually not worth it. I stand by my sentiment of not requiring young children to learn relatively advanced math in their heads, though your case makes sense.
@PooltoyWolf My math experience is all business related. Things I use in real life. You know, accounts, bills, percentages, stuff like that. When it comes to statistical or geometric things, I'm lost. So yeah, I know theoretically you can use a 3 foot high stick to figure out how tall a tree is using the sun's shadow…just don't ask me to be the one to do it.
@therealjrn Yep, that's pretty close to where I'm at, too. I was also really good at fractions in school, until they had to start going all improper!
@PooltoyWolf You are referring to arithmetic as "relatively advanced math"? Give me a break. People (so-called adults) who cannot make change from a dollar bill or multiply by 10 without a calculator is a symptom of what is wrong with our education system. Apparently teaching thinking skills is expecting too much nowadays.
Lack of arithmetic skills leads to lack of algebra skills, which leads to lack of calculus skills, which leads to a lack of STEM majors.
Just try teaching factoring in an algebra class to students who do not know their times tables. I've seen college students flunk a differential equations exam because they couldn't do simple algebraic factoring.
[ This comes from my forty plus years as a college math instructor – now retired and getting dumberer.]
@PooltoyWolf @therealjrn Also, I hope the bit about improper fractions was a joke.
Otherwise, you are admitting you don't understand things like 150%, which ultimately is an improper fraction (of the decimal kind).
BTW, the term "improper fraction" was probably coined by an education major teaching something she didn't properly understand.
@phendrick @therealjrn No, it was indeed a joke. The only thing I took away from your post above was that you expect everyone in all fields to know and understand calculus, which would be a bit like expecting truck drivers and locomotive engineers to understand rocket science. I get that it's necessary for certain careers and positions, but let so-called higher education teach the people who choose to pursue those careers. I'd rather not see people failing in school because they can't pass classes/subjects they will never use in life.
@PooltoyWolf I posit that you need to work on your reading comprehension some. I specifically tied calculus to STEM majors (look it up, if necessary), not to professions such as truck driving or carpentry (talk about needing fractions!)
My point was that I was lamenting the fact that many in the "higher education" classes (STEM, in particular) are not successful because of pitiful training in the basics in their "formative" years, even back to elementary school. And, I guess, that would also apply to all of their particular classmates.
And then I look at my property taxes, and the proportion that goes to the school system. At least the students are learning not to offend anyone.
I'm heading to bed. G'night. Go and sin (and cos) no more.
You may use your calculator (snicker).
@phendrick I don't think that problem needs a calculator so much than it needs "common" sense or some kind of algebra. Me, I'd get the cat to jump down and use my tape measure to measure the table in 'Merican. What are those cm thingies?
@PooltoyWolf @therealjrn Yup. If speed is your best argument for cursive, typing wins that battle every time.
@phendrick I convinced my kid to learn how to do some of this in her head so she could figure out how much something cost when it said 10% or 15% or whatever off. Of course now that she has a cell phone I am sure she has forgotten how to do that.
@phendrick @PooltoyWolf I may be a poor example, because I am an electrical engineer instead of a "normal person," but I'm with @phendrick. I do not believe that I would be able to do the things I need to do today if I had not learned things like long division (since it was called out) in childhood.
I rarely ever actually do long division anymore, though I can if I need to. I use a calculator or Matlab or Python. But, the basics I got and had reinforced through long division are things I use almost daily in my work and also come in plenty handy in my "normal" life. This include specific things like place value/orders of magnitude as well as more general things like breaking down a larger problem into simpler steps. And just the general process of estimating materials needed for home projects. I use these things all the time and they all tie back to long division specifically.
@Kidsandliz I am dismayed by how many people struggle to leave a 15% tip. Easy peasy: move the decimal point one to the right (that's 10%); add half that again (another 5%); round up and be generous, when deserved.
@phendrick what is 1/2 of $7.33 + 7.33? Quick!
Edit…too late, we already left the restaurant.
@medz 3.665 + 7.33 = 10.995, call it 11 dollars.
Sorry, I was eating lunch :>)
That was a nice meal; hope it was for more than 2 people.
@phendrick @PooltoyWolf @therealjrn It is true that not all people in all fields need to know calculus and other advanced studies, but without the basic foundations necessary to get to that level, society will gradually lose those skills with each successive generation. I would venture to bet that very few kids dream of becoming advanced mathematicians or engineers while learning basic skills in grade school, but that's just when young minds are sparked with new ideas and develop the learning skills necessary to pursue those advanced fields as they mature and take interest. Without a good basic skills and knowledge foundation, not many people can achieve an advance status in any field. The best you can hope for is perhaps someone who can follow directions well and are given good directions. Give them bad directions and they will follow them equally well, but never understand why they're failing.
If things don't change for the better, eventually we will become a society totally reliant on technology and other specialists to support that technology. And when we run out of those specialists because we are no longer able produce them due to our declining educational systems, well good luck to what's left of us. I just hope Brawndo really has what plants crave!
@Kidsandliz @phendrick Ehh…maybe I'm dumber than I think, but when I'm trying to get 10% of a number, I move the decimal point one place to the left, not right.
/youtube in the year 2525
@kuoh I think @phendrick meant your OTHER right.
@kuoh You are right; I am left, to try to figure where I got that direction from. Probably due to definite lack of sleep. (Either that, or I was holding it in the wrong hand… It usually takes me two tries to unlock my car or my house door when the key is in my left hand.)
@Limewater @phendrick @PooltoyWolf Learning math helps form your brain differently. It affects much more than being able to calculate a 15% tip.
@G1 @Limewater @phendrick @PooltoyWolf
I don't think anyone was advocating everyone having to do calculus in their heads.
What was advocated:
People (so-called adults) who cannot make change from a dollar bill or multiply by 10 without a calculator is a symptom of what is wrong with our education system.
Seems reasonable to me.
Anyone who intends to study seriously or use higher math professionally (trig, calculus, diff EQ, statistics, etc) should prob be capable of doing basic arithmetic with pen/pencil and paper tho.
And these folk who will use higher math should prob have some light introduction to the mathematical method, and what is it and is not. And on what sorts of concepts the method might be applicable.
/giphy "mathematical object"
@Kidsandliz @kuoh @phendrick @medz et al:
I am constantly amazed at the poor basic math skills that most people have currently. Without a calculator they can't even begin to figure out how to make a simple approximation, how to double (or halve) a number in their heads, etc.
As a nurse I often have to calculate meds based on weight given in kilograms. Most of our weights are taken on a scale in pounds. Making the conversion (1 kg = 2.2 lbs) is something I can readily approximate by dividing by 2 and taking off 10%. Lots of younger nurses will do it with a calculator, then not have a clue if the number is way off…
@Kidsandliz @kuoh @medz @phendrick I once heard the generation gap defined as:
Young people do a problem by hand and check the result with a calculator, Older people do it with a calculator and check it by hand…
@chienfou More like (stereotyping): Young people - do math with a calculator or don't do it. End of story. Older people - do math in their head if they don't have a calculator.
@chienfou @Kidsandliz I'll pile on as well. Being an old folgie in IT, I rarely see any double checking by young people. They expect that to be done by other people or AI and it's never their fault no matter how badly they misread or transposed characters. It's almost as if they believe life has an autocorrect feature!
@chienfou @kuoh LOL autocorrect - yeah like when it puts in a perfectly good word, except it was not the one you had in mind.
Actually I see the same issues with a chunk of students (certainly by no means all, but this problem is increasing) I teach. It is not their fault they didn't do something even though it is clearly laid out in the assignment and they are reminded in announcements/emails (I teach online right now so you can't grab them by the ear as they walk out the door to talk with them or call on them when they are texting to make sure they are listening).
I finally resorted to putting in the syllabus that they are responsible for what is posted in announcements and sent in emails even if they don't choose to read them. Sigh.
There are plenty of conscientious, good students out there and then… umm well… it can make me wonder at times why some are paying for school at this particular point in their life if they aren't going to do what they need to do. As in why are they putting a match to their money? There were times when I was in school (actually repeated times) when I had to repeat to myself, "There are good reasons why I returned to school. The fact that I can't think of any of them right now is not good enough reason to drop out.".
More like (stereotyping): Young people - do math with a calculator or don't do it. End of story. Older people - do math in their head if they don't have a calculator.
Maybe I am a bit older than you
@chienfou @Kidsandliz @kuoh I think this is likely a sampling problem.
In previous generations, the vast majority of people stopped their education at high school graduation. Some even earlier. As evidence, I will present the classic 1992 thriller Basic Instinct.
In it, Sharon Stone is a brilliant mastermind manipulating everyone around her. Her superpower? A bachelor's degree in Psychology.
In 1992, nobody seemed to have a problem with this. This aspect of the film did not seem to stretch credibility with anyone.
More recently, a lot of people who would not have previously been considered "college material" are pursuing higher education because everyone tells them they should and it appears to them to be the only way to obtain a meaningful career that can support themselves and their families. If you greatly increase the number of college students, you're going to see a lot more duds.
@chienfou @Kidsandliz @Limewater Maybe I'm too cynical, but I wouldn't rely on movie fiction as evidence. As for most kids discontinuing education after high school, I've never researched the statistics, but it certainly wasn't the impression I got growing up in the 80s and 90s. I'm sure there were a lot of poor families that just couldn't afford it, but it never seemed like a normal choice one would make if they had the option.
@chienfou @Kidsandliz @kuoh The movie reference was a joke. It's just something I've always found hilarious about that movie.
The current U.S. average for 20-24 year-olds enrolled in school: 35.6% source
The percentage was around 20% through the seventies to the mid-eighties. It hit 30 around 1991 or so.
Don't forget that age range includes a lot of people who aren't in school because they have already completed post-secondary degrees.
About 70% of high school graduates start college the next fall now. That number was about 60% in the early nineties. That's not saying anything about the higher-education drop-out rates.
@chienfou @kuoh @Limewater
Here is some recent figures on the competition rate - about 60% at 8 years out. Source of the state is credible.
Of course if you live in Arkansas you may not get much of a decent education there anymore. The state has pegged the higher ed budget to graduation rates. If 90% don't graduate in exactly 4 years with exactly 120 credits (so heaven help those who change their major) then they don't get their budget fully funded. The further off you are the less you get - up to only 75% of your budget.
Now considering the national rates and how few schools out there even meet AR's criteria, my opinion is that they have rigged the rules to blame higher ed for the cuts, and then knowing the odds are a snowball's chance in hell that any university will reach that goal (even the flagship was only at 83%) they succeeded in having a stealth highed budget cut while being able to blame the victim.
The school I had a one year visiting was open admissions, paid 1/2 the going rate and had a shortage of anything even remotely resembling modern technology. If your ACT is 16 or higher you are in the "President's Honors Club" (national average is 20.8). 40% dropped out or flunked out freshman year. Well duh. Made worse by no money to help with anything… not to mention a good chunk of those students would have been better served by trade training; there is no way many had the skills or basic knowledge to survive at the university level, even with remedial work (and some had to take an entire year of remediation).
I was lucky I got them when they were juniors and seniors so I was mostly seeing the ones who were "president's club" members. As was we had a handful of department scholarships to hand out and a few couldn't be awarded as there weren't enough students with a 3.0 gpa.
Second semester, when I had a handle on what reality was there I told my students I was going to manipulate them into buying the book, reading the book, taking hand written notes (research shows better retention of material when you do it that way rather than type for a variety of brain function based reasons, backed up with brain scans and applied research), and studying for the exams. Major eyeball rolls. Whatever.
They laughed. I won. Out of all 4 classes only 3 were hold outs and they all earned an F (with averages in the mid 40's% - what was usually a C around there - I was told to expect to curve roughly 30-35% and was required to pass, with a C or better, at least 85% of them). My curves second semester were 5-12% depending on the class where as the previous term I had the "normal" college curve (was told point blank I was expected to pass most of them - the budget issue).
The second day of fall faculty meetings prior to the state of the term someone from the state came to talk to us about all this. Her first sentence was, "We all know you will never make criteria, however we will still be applying it". Umm so why apply it to an open admissions school if you know it is impossible to meet? Nope. Just call it a budget cut and get it over with.
I do think some of the problem is no real expectations in K-12 and they get passed for breathing while not causing trouble, haven't learned how to study… I was basically teaching that bunch how to study and so one thing I did was give weekly 10 question 10 min quizzes (Normal level of hardness although I started out with only easier ones to reward the ones taking notes and slowly made the quizzes harder until they were "normal") that were open handwritten, your own handwritten otherwise someone would take notes and photocopies would be sold), notes only, curved off the top grade in the class. I knew that gamble of top grade was good as the softball team recruited only act 23+ and high school 3.5 grades so he wouldn't lose people off the team due to flunking out or academic ineligibly; thus on those quizzes usually 100% was the top grade.
I watched people cave one by one as their 43's were at the bottom of the heap and in the F range. They start to buckle down and grades went up. I had a couple of them tell me that they had started to use the "techniques" I had taught them in other classes and their grades were going up. Duh. That would be called doing the work and studying. Sigh. I do think that is part of the overall issue.
I understand the points that it isn't going to be terribly necessary in the future (does one sign a contract in print which is more easily forged?). But it's a sad demise to me. I was surprised when my daughter (a teacher) informed me a few yrs ago that a lot of places weren't teaching cursive any longer. I guess it's akin to not needing to know how to build a stick fire to cook a hotdog outside when there are grills available now. But it becoming a lost art is sort of like just losing a part of my history, like cutting loose a long lost friend. And it is faster than printing. It's sad to some of us boomers.
@lseeber I don't think tracing a cursive signature is much harder than a printed one. Besides, I would just snap a photo of your signature (or scan it) do a little digital manipulation and paste it onto the document I want signed then print it out. Boom. Lots of stuff are "signed" digitally these days. Even PDFs and DocuSign stuff are just 1s and 0s that can be easily digitally reproduced. The real proof is in the meta-data behind the transaction.
I used to work at a place that wanted to move a lot of paper-driven processes into a electronic forms. Great! BUT…they wanted to display "wet" signatures on the digital forms… Ok… Why though? "So we can tell that person really signed it." But…the system tracks who was logged in at the time it was digitally approved, so you know who clicked approve. (unless you're letting your admin assistant login with your credentials which is against policy) "Yeah, but people like to see an actual signature." Just so we're clear here…the system will apply a digital image of the person's signature to the document and that somehow brings you comfort? Further, they sometimes wanted the supervisor's signature even if the assistant was the one doing the approval. WHAT?! That's like rubber stamp signature days. What exactly is the point of that? You're literally forging the signature. Basically, they want people to think the person on top is approving things when they're really not and their assistant actually has the authority to do the approvals. So…lets just show the assistant as the digital signature? "No, because we want people to know the upper-level person says it's ok." The upper-level person has no idea this form even exists or what is being approved! So. Friggin'. Frustrating.
Edit: Also there is a reason why contracts require a printed name next to the signature. They want to be able to tell who actually signed it. The signature tells you nothing other than someone can scribble.
@medz honestly… I don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other but… not everyone that is receiving something with a signature (check, bill of sale, etc) has the capability to trace all of what you mentioned. A lot of deals take place off line and have no electronics involved at point of sale or such. I have had my signature forged in the past and the only way I was able to get out of it was they compared my past signatures with that and saw the discrepancies. But really… I don't much care. I just see it as becoming a lost art.
@lseeber I'm not sure it is specifically the case with cursive, but there is another point to sometimes dropping topics. There is a finite amount number of instructional hours in a child's school career. As the world changes and new topics need to be covered, something has to get cut to make room.
@Limewater I do understand that… particularly with history. But usually cursive is in what… 2nd grade or something? I'm just spouting off. I do understand that it's not so necessary. Except someone will need to carry on in order to read a lot of historical documents.
@Limewater @lseeber I learned cursive in 1st grade.
@Limewater @msklzannie Close enough… point is… I don't think there's a lot of old info they have to move out at that level in order to teach newer, more relevant topics at that grade level.
@lseeber @msklzannie Yeah, I don't really know that's the case with cursive. But I will say that my daughter just finished first grade, and she had computer work, Spanish, and Chinese. I didn't do any of those things in first grade.
She didn't learn cursive, but she clearly knows of cursive, and has tried to fake it, so I expect it is covered in her school. They also at least began covering how to read a clock.
But my daughter is also in a really good school system. And I feel like they give her a lot of homework for first grade. I would not be surprised if other school districts are a bit more relaxed and more willing to cut certain topics.
@Limewater @msklzannie wow. all those subjects in the 1st grade!? And homework? Other than memorizing my times tables and spelling words, never had regular homework until 7th grade (I think some science projects prior tho). You're in my neck of the woods aren't you? Mad county or city?
@lseeber The reason I remember the grade I was in is because we had to write/copy a poem as a Christmas gift for our parents. Only that particular teacher had her students do that each year. I believe my parents still have mine. I'd almost included in my earlier reply that it was 30-some years ago and I don't know if the school district is even still teaching cursive. I would guess not based on the number of kids and teens who can't even sign their names and print instead.
@lseeber Yep, Madison City schools.
She's learned a heck of a lot this year, but I do feel like they're working her too hard.
At the start of spring break she said excitedly, "I'm not going to learn anything!"
@Limewater I remember when one of my daughters was in school (she's 38 now), straight A student (also was awarded perfect attendance for like 9 yrs in a row or so), she and 2 other kids were always in competition all throughout the school yrs over which one would come out on top (they were the top 3 students in their grades). She even graduated Univ with a 4.3. but… when she was younger she was sometimes totally bogged down with homework. She took her schoolwork very seriously and would often come home from school, have a snack and then spend 3-4 hrs on homework. I finally had a sit down at the school asking when the heck is she supposed to be a kid and enjoy her youth? Anyway… didn't mean to veer off course but yep… I understand you and your daughter on that for sure!
In elementary school, the teachers emphasized how important learning cursive would be to such a degree that my anxious child brain completely dropped using print in favor of cursive for the next several years.
I had difficulty writing in print again until some time in high school.
I had decent cursive and printed handwriting once upon a time.
Then I went to legible chickenscratch because speed.
Then keyboards took over my life.
Now, I can, of course, read cursive, if the writer is legible.
I can write it. Quite nicely. For a few words or for a sentence or two. Then the handwriting deteriorates terribly.
I lost the muscle facility to write even a decent-length paragraph legibly, thru lack of active and frequent practice of the fine hand movements, and my hand muscles tire into generating completely unreadable garbage so quickly. (And my hand aches.)
I presume a little practice could restore me, but have not done this.
I regret this. my dad kept beautiful handwriting all his life.
Not being able to write cursive is one thing.
Not being able to read cursive is another issue.
I'm really surprised that this admirable intern was not taught to do that, at least. Not that hard. Seems useful.
What if someone wishes to read their grandparents' letters? I hope that will not require a cursive OCR translator.
I don't like to think that anyone doing historical research on original written documents will be effectively blind, needing a translator.
Personally, I think cursive should be taught. Very lightly. Each year in elementary school. A wee bit of practice in writing and reading it. Then ignored.
That's really all that's needed to connect personal literacy from the past to the future.
I hope you encourage the intern to learn to read cursive, @ruouttaumind.
/giphy cursive
@f00l Shh. Genealogy researchers will be able to charge more if the historical records are in cursive and their clients can't read them. Wait, pretty much all handwritten records are in cursive. Funny how that works.
I hope that will not require a cursive OCR translator.
@f00l I think you just explained why there's a shift away from teaching cursive. How else can computers and robots take over if they couldn't read our writing?
How will future generations read the black speech on the One Ring if they can't read cursive?
Poor things.
/giphy one ring
Oh! I almost forgot! Ecreatsay Odesay ofray hetay inway!
I did most of my primary education in the 90's. We learned cursive in elementary school, used it briefly in middle school, and then I typed or wrote with printed (non-cursive) characters for everything else. I can generally read it fine, but have probably forgotten how to write some of the more elaborate letters (like capital G). Honestly, it doesn't bother me at all that people aren't leaning it. I never much cared for it myself when I was a kid and I guess was never forced to use it enough to grow a fondness for it.
Hey @therealjrn
You promised to send me your public and private PGP keys.
I think that communication will go more efficiently if you just post them publicly here in the forums.
Then we can all share.
Unless you'd rather put them on Reddit. Or on FB. Or on Instagram.
But, in the meantime, we have a totally secret and secure method of communication!
Here ya go:
It's a new font!
Uglè Illėgiblę Distortéd Fingėrtip Cursivë
@f00l Did I guess correctly?
/giphy the quick brown fox
@f00l That reminds me of notes I used to leave myself attempting to document my dreams.
An inspired guess/interpretation. But not correct if I recall.
My offering is in a secret ultra-secure code. Not even I can read it anymore; too much time has passed.
I now can only tell what the message doesn't say.
/giphy illegible
/giphy unintelligible
Hint: that message doesn't say very much.
/8ball am I intelligible?
It is certain
Come on now, /8ball.
/8ball am I intelligible?
My reply is no
@f00l I figured with this being meh, there might have been a couple of additional "descriptive" words included.
Ya think?
@f00l @msklzannie kinda more like the somewhat lazy fox tried to jump over the frozen dog. lol
You imprisoned someone for the summer?
I think the word you're looking for is "internship"
or was that used ironically?
I would guess that's a "swipe-keyboard-on-mobile-device-and-then-autocorrect-went-mad" type error.
After all, proofreading is a pain, and is nearly impossible to do well, when one is distracted or in a hurry.
Or when one truly hates to proofread.
Otoh perhaps @ruouttaurmind's company offers very rigorous internships.
/giphy proofread
/giphy rigorous
@f00l @Pufferfishy @ruouttaurmind Proofreading is also a "lost art". Nobody seems to bother any more, having a "they will get it anyway" attitude.
Reading the newspaper has gotten really frustrating for that reason.
@chienfou @Pufferfishy @ruouttaurmind
I don't mind "failure to proofread" errors in casual communication; so long as things are intelligible or can be made so.
With professional or formal communications, I have a different reaction.
If you are catching proofread-failure errors in a commercial newspaper, that's still kinda a "wow".
I think "failure to proofread" is becoming more common even in professional or business settings.
Perhaps that habit will become socially acceptable soon. Or even become the norm.
In which case, ouch.
If professional communications start to originate more and more - or mostly - from mobile devices with touch keyboards, I see many more errors coming our way.
On mobile devices, both proofreading and error-correction aren't easy. The devices seem to encourage "skimming", so proofreading one's own work on such a device effectively becomes "an activity apart" (in method, mindset, and mood), from ones normal interaction with the device.
@Pufferfishy Yes, irony based on the stereotype for treatment of student inmates… er, interns.
I would guess that's a "swipe-keyboard-on-mobile-device-and-then-autocorrect-went-mad" type error.
No, irony. I despise swype type technologies. I struggle with all touch screen interfaces, and the last thing I need is another complication in the mix.
@chienfou I operate a publishing company, and I can attest to how difficult it is to get writers to proof their own stuff, and even more challenging to find reliable proof editors.
Well, cool.
I did think that might be "your sort of joke", and quite deliberate, and quite a witty implication, as an alternative.
I use swipe-type kbs, because wrist probs otherwise.
But I'm no good at using them.
@f00l I just stick to a real keyboard when I can. I get frustrated on touch screens.
@f00l @ruouttaurmind that was my biggest compliant about windows 10. Most of it seemed aimed at social media and not productivity. I will wait to get to a keyboard and proofread my stuff way before I will use a phone or tablet. I'm not one to dash off something half cocked…
@chienfou @ruouttaurmind Profreading is for loosers.
@therealjrn Absolutely! Assuming you've got the typing, spelling and grammar skills to do it right the first time, every time.
@chienfou @ruouttaurmind @therealjrn Yea, poofing is so booring! thats wut autocorec5 it soppose ta do!
@chienfou @ruouttaurmind @therealjrn
Speeling is for genuses.
writers to proof their own stuff
We all ought to be about at least to proof our own simple and short biz communications.
But I've been told (by professional proofreaders and editors I knew in NY once) that proofing your own work is not that easy.
We tend (so they said) to read over our own errors, and a portion of our own minds autocorrects our own errors because we know our own intentions.
That said; most people can proof their own short stuff intended for professional or biz use. They sometimes just don't want to.
It's a diff mindset; it feels like "work"; and people sometimes think they should be exempt from it.
For example: I don't like doing it. And when I do it, I'm afraid I'll miss something.
(I prob just misused a bunch of semicolons. )
@f00l @ruouttaurmind I'm ok with being a bit liberal in the use of punctuation, especially in a forum like this one where commas, ellipsis, colons ("full" and semi) etc. are used to put emphasis, pauses etc in your thoughts. What I have trouble with is when people use autospell/autocorrect but don't check to see if the change is actually right or not.
In the paper I see lots of examples of phrases that were started one way, then obviously reworded and inserted to replace the original, without actually taking out the original words… resulting in things like:
The accident is under investigation by the has been assigned to the highway patrol. That just drives me bat-shit crazy!
@chienfou I see this frequently when an editor proofreads a writer's work. The intention was spot on to improve readability, but the implementation crashes in flames. I always hear the justification "That is a 1,785 word article with 5 errant words and three spelling errors. That's less than a 1/2% error rate. Still an A according to my college grading scale." Apparently errors are ok, as long as there aren't too many? Yes, given a publication with tens of thousands of written words, errors will inevitably slip by, but strive to be better, not to accept "good enough". I constantly preach about a quest for continuous improvement. Sadly, it constantly falls on deaf ears.


text:
STOCK DIARIES - Kenilworth castle with the Sony A7r II/
WHERE - Kenilworth Castle
WHEN - February 2016
WHAT - Sony A7r II, Metabones EF>e-mount SMART adapter,Canon 24-105mm f/4
HOW - Edited in Photoshop CC and iMovie on a Macbook Air 11"
Ancient monuments, castles and places of history are always popular places to visits, places to write about in magazines and on websites and are a pretty obvious choice as locations for stock photography. And those of us who do that for a living make sure that we make of the best of such locations close to where we live.
The wider the variety of those shots the better. Different seasons, with people and without, wide-angle and telephoto views all build up a good portfolio of choice for potential picture buyers. So when anybody asks me for advice on what to shoot for stock at a potential location, I always indicate that the way I approach it is as a 'picture essay'. So even though it isn't happening, I imagine that I have been commissioned to shoot a spread of several pages for an upmarket travel magazine. And these days I approach putting together stock video clips in much the same way. This time imaging that I'm shooting the 'filler' clips for a show where some presenter is visiting and talking about the place for some TV channel.
Some images can only be used for editorial features, particularly since it's obviously impossible to come away with a bunch of model releases, but there are still many opportunities for pictures that don't have that problem. However it is worth pointing out that different libraries have different ideas as to what image needs a release and what doesn't. But then I usually let them take care of that.
I'll maybe visit this castle 3 to 4 times a year and over the years I have a lot of pictures of the place. But then I sell those pictures over a year and they can be from any of my visits. I've learnt over the years that it's impossible to predict what a picture buyer might be looking for, so I just take what I think works to provide as much choice as possible. Libraries will pick and choose what they want and not take everything anyway. However, they all seem to have different ideas of what they think will sell, so what usually happens is that I will have the whole shoot online, though spread across a few libraries.
The whole reason for buying the Sony A7r II was to have a camera that I use to switch effortlessly between high-resolution stills and 4K video footage. And the Sony does achieve that pretty well. I set nothing special up for video. I keep the camera configured how I want for stills and when I'm ready to shoot some footage I just press the red video button. As I indicated, for the most part this is filler material, to make the place look good.
For a lot of the locations I visit, hand holding is a necessity, hence a video enabled stills camera. Often tripods aren't even allowed in. So I'm become practiced in getting pin sharp images and stable video. And this is how stock photographers have to work. We get no special access and have to make do with what any tourist or visitor can get. And that works for stock photography, because location images like these will generally be sold to some print or web publication doing some kind of places to visit feature. And shooting footage or stills with drones or getting access to places the public can't visit, isn't usually what those feature writers want. Showing what it's possible for any visitor to see is usually what's required. And to be honest, being able to shoot in sunshine with blue skies is generally more important than any artistic interpretation.
As I write often 'It's a rotten job but somebody has to do it!!' Which is my way of indicating that in fact I think I'm very lucky that I was prepared to put the work in to be able to make a living doing this. Which is a roundabout way of saying, for me, this is the best job in the world. But if you are considering doing it, remember all the editing, uploading, captioning and keywording that comes later. Not quite such an enjoyable experience. However since it's way more important than the camera I use, it has to be done.
So there it is, my first STOCK DIARY. I'm going to be doing a fair few of these in the next weeks and hopefully give an insight into this particular kind of photographic career. Is it 'money for old rope?' Well read a few of these and decide for yourselves.


text:
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