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Monday, August 01, 2011 at 4:41 PM
Motherhood Mondays: How to talk to little girls
I had just read the GREAT article How to Talk to Little Girls by Lisa Bloom, which encourages adults to ask little girls about ideas and books, instead of complimenting their looks. "Teaching girls that their appearance is the first thing you notice tells them that looks are more important than anything," says Bloom. "I always bite my tongue when I meet little girls, restraining myself from my first impulse, which is to tell them how darn cute/ pretty/ beautiful/ well-dressed/ well-manicured/ well-coiffed they are...It's our culture's standard talking-to-little-girls icebreaker, isn't it?"
(It's true! It's really easy and almost instinctive to compliment a little girl's appearance, don't you think?)
"Clothes or hair or bodies...it's surprising how hard it is to stay away from those topics with little girls, but I'm stubborn," Bloom writes. "Try this the next time you meet a little girl [ask her what she's reading]. She may be surprised and unsure at first, because few ask her about her mind, but be patient and stick with it...Model for her what a thinking woman says and does."
So, instead of telling the girl on the bus how much I liked her hair, I went ahead and asked her what books she liked. She told me that her mom was reading The Little House in the Prairie to her at night, and that they read one chapter per night, unless it was a long chapter, in which case they read half. We talked about books for five bus stops (that's a long time in midtown traffic!) and then I asked her what she had for breakfast. "Pancakes," she said. I told her that I loved pancakes with lemon and sugar, and her mom looked up and said, "That's how I ate them growing up in Germany." And then the little girl told me how she had gone on an airplane (!) to Germany earlier that summer and how she had seen a fox during her trip and how her grandparents took to her swimming and to the movies, where you could eat pizza in your seats.
I was thrilled by our conversation! (Although Toby fell asleep:) It was so much more interesting than braids.
Lisa Bloom's advice to have real conversations with little girls (and boys!) is wonderful. (Think: "Have you been swimming this summer?" "Do you like animals?" "Do you know any jokes?") Changing the conversation topic is such a seemingly small thing, but it can make a profound difference, don't you think?
What's your take? Do you instinctively compliment little girls' looks, too? What else do you talk about with little girls? Do you remember having smart conversations with adults when you were little? Do you have any young girls in your life to at the moment, or do you have a daughter? Will you take Lisa Bloom's pledge, too? (Think how amazing it would be if we all did this from now on!) Do you think it's important or not that big of a deal? I'm curious to hear your thoughts... xoxo
P.S. This book looks fascinating, too. Plus, more Motherhood Monday posts...
(Photos by Darcy Hemley, Deborah Donenfeld and Charles Gullung, via Momfilter)
446 comments:
wow, I have never really thought about this and I really like that idea. Complimenting looks/dress/appearance does usually only lead to a very superficial conversation. I love it that you found out that she ate pancakes and went to Germany this summer. I wonder what Toby will like to talk about when he starts to chatter!
VI always start conversations with children about what they are looking at, what they like, if they have pets/siblings...
I am a person who absolutely adores children to no end. For who they are; never for what one would wish they were.
You are such a beautiful person, Jo, to try and make a world of strong women just by enjoying this little girl for who she is--and finding out who that is.
You could have changed her life just then.Thank you for this! I never even considered it. I have a son (2 yr old) so I am so used to talking trucks and tractors at this point. When I see a little girl I am always
dazzled by their cuteness. I could not imagine telling a little boy how cute his shoes are but a little girl absolutely! I will be doing this from now on!!I think this is an enormously important point - critical, essential, and, oddly, incredibly difficult. Peggy Orenstein's book is totally fascinating, as well - I loved it thought it also made me kind of panicky. I reviewed it for Literary Mama here: http://www.literarymama.com/blog/archives/2011/07/blog-book-review-cinderella-at.html
Thanks for bringing up such important topics. xoxWhile it is true, it is great to talk about things less superficial than looks, at the same time little girl are bombarded by unrealistic images of beauty nowadays. They do need to be complimented on their looks, just as they are (sweet smiles are an easy one). Help them feel comfortable in their skins. Just don't make that the whole conversation.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely love kids and make friends with them immediately in waiting rooms or buses or wherever and I have from time to time complemented them on their appearance first because they look so darn cute most of the time it's hard to stop myself but depending on the situation I have also started by asking them about the book they're holding or the photos they're looking at in a magazine or something which usually starts them talking about everything and anything! lol
great article though and I'll be sure to keep this in mind next time I see our family friends little girls!
http://thefashionistabubble.blogspot.com/I am in complete agreement. I read this a few weeks ago from a tweet and retweeted right away. I have an almost 5 year old daughter and my husband and I love having cerebral conversations with her. She understands many, many things which make people react to her as "mature for her age." But really, we just think it's speaking to her to her capabilities. We do the same with our son. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE fashion and my little apple doesn't fall far from the tree:) But we absolutely make conversation and intelligent moments our priority over here. Great post!
ReplyDeleteOh, what a brilliant idea. Anything to empower girls and make them feel like they are certainly more than their physical looks is wonderful. And I love how open and willing that little girl was to tell you about all her adventures...so great. I will definitely remember this advice from now on.
PS-Page breaks dont bother me at all...it tells me that something long and thoughtful is coming up! :)wow! i've never thought of this before, i will definitely be asking little girls more intelligent questions from now on. it's making me think about my own sense of self and thinking back to when i was a little girl. i always had thoughts, and felt older than i was, how i wish someone had asked me those questions more often. i have a daughter (6 mos old next week!), and i am much more conscious of these types of things. thanks so much for the post! p.s. i don't like page breaks, either. it's that extra click or two from Google Reader that makes things annoying and then sometimes i don't even bother to read the whole post.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read your first paragraph my heart leaped with joy. It reminds me of the great quote by Eleanor Roosevelt: "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." We are a a family of readers; and although I love, love, love to compliment my daughter on her beauty inside and out, most of our discussions are about ideas like poetry (she writes) activities (she "teaches" her pretend class), events (she puts on puppet shows and plays) and projects (she builds sets and sews clothes for her puppets). Thank you for such a beautiful post. xoxo michele
ReplyDeleteThis is amazing, Joanna! Thank you so much for that. It's so true, we usually say things like "what a pretty hair" or "what a cute dress"!
I have no young girls in my life, but I'll sure use it when I meet one!
I don't love page breaks, but I can understand why you would use it. So it's okay by me :)
Big kiss.
Bruna.- Barchbo4:56 PM
I've had 700+ children in my office this summer (ages 4-18) and I always ask kids what they have been doing. Most kids are thrilled to have people interested in them and how they choose to spend their time.
Since I am in Texas, it's funny to hear 7 year olds kvetch about the heat like older people. I have a god-daughter who's 6 years old and we usually chat about things like ballet classes, her best friends and school. when we hang out we play board games and do some arts and crafts. sometimes she would ask me to do her hair or nails (if her mum approves:) ) but we very rarely talk about looks. to be perfectly honest it didn't occur to me as a conversation starter with a little girl :) but I can see your point.
ReplyDeleteI adore this article and idea! Definitely putting it into practice. What really saddened me was the point where the article mentions that nearly half of all three- to six-year-old girls worry about being fat. I don't remember thinking about my body image until high school...it's so hard to imagine young girls thinking about this so young!
ReplyDeleteI read that article and loved it. It really has shifted my interactions with little girls. Just last weekend at a river party, I stopped myself from commented on a girl's bathing suit and instead complimented her stellar kayaking skills. The most interesting thing is that I wasn't faking it - she really was very talented and that was much more worthy of comment than her bathing suit, yet that was the first thing that popped in my head to talk about.
ReplyDeleteThis is so, so hard even though it makes a lot of sense. My daughter is just so beautiful that I want to tell her all the time - and it's not that she just looks beautiful but her little slowly-revealing character is beautiful too. I can't help but tell her. Also, I was never ever told I was beautiful by either of my parents and found that really hard. I swore I'd tell any daughters that I ever had, that they were. BUT I do totally want my daughter to know that her physical beauty is not what makes her who she is or that it is the thing that gives her value. I think it's made even harder for me as I am a PR for a children swear company and write a little blog about girls clothes! It's on the brain ...
ReplyDelete- kaela d.4:58 PM
you've been on a roll with your posts! so full of great fresh ideas :-)
I LOVE this...it's amazing what we consider second nature. I agree that we should definitely interact with our youth on a deeper inquiry based level! if we don't like the stereotypes that are out there then we need to stop supporting them.
I think that compliments on appearance shouldn't be completely left out...but maybe equal to the more interesting topic starters and with added depth.
I remember being at a car dealership with my dad when i was very little and i had just learned how to do my hair in a pony tail, separate just above the band, and flip through...for that twisted pony look. so simple and easy but i remember an older guy complimenting my new do and the kicker was that the most important part of our interaction was that he ASKED ME who did it and how so i got to explain the story behind it and felt like he saw me as a person not just a little girl who needed a compliment...
sorry, long comment hahaha - LaurenM4:58 PM
I love this article too! I think it's important to add that the way you act in front of little girls, even when you're not talking to them can make just as much of an impression. I can't remember my mom ever commenting on her figure when I was young, and as a result I think I have come to have a fairly healthy body image, especially when I compare myself with some of my best girlfriends. I do remember being about 8 or 9 years old at a dinner table with my extended family, when my aunt (my mom's sister, who is roughly the same size/shape as my mom) and our family friend were having a conversation about how they both needed to eat less/lose weight/etc. At the time I thought it was completely ridiculous, because it was my beautiful and very glamourous aunt talking! I now know that I have my mom to thank for that perspective. :)
ReplyDelete This article is spot on and so important. Sometimes, I still find myself judging myself solely on my looks and then I remember how completely foolish this is, because I am so much more than my psychical appearance. In today's society, especially, I think it is essential to remind our children that being unique and interesting people is what matters the most. I'm definitely taking the pledge.
ReplyDeleteI'm a teacher and have 4-7 year olds in my class and I try to have intelligent conversations with them whenever possible. They're far more capable of this than I ever realised before I was a teacher and I hate it when people talk down to children. However, when I first met my new starters I found myself resorting to comments such as 'you dress is really pretty' and this also applied to the boys where I started saying how much I liked there dinosaur t-shirts!
It's so interesting that you raise this issue. My husband and I often feel we are in a losing battle with the rest of the world on this topic. We're trying to raise kids (girl and boys) to not even think about their appearance. We don't mention new clothes when they get them, we don't talk about looking cute, we don't mention messy hair, etc. Talking about any of those things just, as the article says, brings attention to things that don't (or shouldn't) matter.
The problem is that we can do our best to not say anything and to raise kids who value more important things (like being nice, being considerate, etc)... but it seems that it's impossible to shield them from it when the rest of the world (no ill intentions of course) make the kind of comments we try to avoid. My mother-in-law is the queen of 'oh doesn't your dress look so pretty' and 'oh isn't your hair so cute', etc.
I often wonder if I should say something to her -- maybe just nicely ask her not to make these sorts of comments... try to suggest she talk about other things, etc.... but I just know it wouldn't go over well. I wish more people would read this article!this is actually a really important topic...i definitely consider myself a modern, intelligent woman who wants to talk about literature, travel, food etc etc...but when i see a precious little girl i always go for "i love your dress" or "look at how pretty you look today." awful but it's like i can't stop myself.
thanks for spelling this out and putting a finger on this thing that so many of us do...and giving suggestions. i love that the little girl told you about her airplane ride to germany...too dear.what fantastic advice! i teach junior high students and i think that this is something that i can apply at work. i often use compliments as a way to break the ice and lead into a conversation. {and because it's just my first reaction} i'm going to start thinking of more questions to ask as ice breakers.
ReplyDeleteI took a course in University called 'The Psychology of Sex Differences'. Something that really stuck with me was that if a little boy asked an adult for something (staple some papers/fix something etc..), the adult would be inclined to tell them to figure it out for themselves but for a girl, they would automatically do it for them. If I'm ever lucky enough to be a parent, I hope that I can remember all this stuff while being stressed about changing diapers!
ReplyDeleteI love this idea, and am trying it too...a girl in my daughter's pre-ballet class (3 year olds) was crying and had to leave class because she missed her parents who left to run an errand, and I tried to comfort her in the waiting area while holding my 7.5 month old son. Admittedly, I complimented her pretty floral dance skirt first, but then asked her if she has brothers or sisters, what their names are, are they younger or older, etc. It was definitely harder to keep up a conversation with a 3 year old! :)
ReplyDeleteI have been loving all of these posts. I am working on starting a family so these are great tips. Also, my friend's have tons of children so it is so helpful to learn how to talk with them in an edifying way. Even at my age, 27, I know which of my friends always compliment only my looks or what I'm wearing and it really bothers me. I find myself thinking about how I'm so much more than that. This post makes so much sense! Thank you!
ReplyDeleteI have two very little girls as of now, and this is a subject I could go on and on about! It's hard to put all my thoughts and feeling into words, but basically I think that there has to be a balance. I always try to compliment my girls (and other people's children) on their specific traits, not some general statement about looks. I also add in personality/attitude/manner compliments as well as ask genuine questions about what they are up to, reading, doing.
I really think it's important to look nice. I don't want my children growing up thinking that their appearance doesn't matter, because it does; however, not in some "you have to wear tons of makeup and do your hair perfectly and have on the best clothes" kind of way. I want my girls to grow up loving THEMSELVES and taking care/pride in their bodies. If I compliment on how good my girls smell, how lovely their outfit is (they put their own crazy, unique outfits together most days), how bright their smiles are...they feel good about themselves and what they accomplished, not just their physical looks.
It's a whole package: looks, personality, behavior. Kids have to know (girls especially) that they are ALL beautiful, inside and out. I think if parents/people spend too much time NOT focusing on physical traits, then kids get complexes about that just as much as if looks WERE the focus, make sense?!What a great reminder! It's definitely easier to start with appearance, and I think back to being a little girl and LOVING my twirly dresses or shiny shoes, so I always start there.
I was babysitting a friend's four year old daughter a few weeks ago and we were playing the game Pretty, Pretty Princess. The object of the game is to collect all the pieces of jewelry first, to become the Pretty Princess (it sounds sort of horrifying, now that I'm typing it out!). Anyway, halfway through she asked to see the directions. There was an illustration of a blonde princess, wearing all the jewelry of the game. She held it up to me and said, clear as day, "That's what you're supposed to look like."
"That's what you're supposed to look like"!! I know she was talking within the context of the game, but my heart broke in half hearing the words come out of her mouth.I have a 3 year old daughter. When I read the article I thought it sounded like good advice, but I wasn't sure it was that dramatic. Boy, was i wrong!! Now that I have read the article I notice that the only thing strangers (and often friends) ever say to my daughter is how cute she is, how they like her dress, what cute hair she has, etc. I mean, I'm glad she knows she is beautiful (because she is!!) but I would so much rather she focus on her interests, passions, knowledge, adventures, etc.! I am trying to take the pledge seriously with other girls I interact with, but I am especially trying to focus on my daughter. I tell her she's cute, pretty, beautiful all day long, and now I am trying to focus on what a hard worker she is and how funny, smart, kind, she is. I hope even if strangers never change, I (as the most influential person in her life right now) can show her what's most important.
ReplyDeleteEver since earning an Early Childhood Ed degree, this topic has been very important to me. We learned that as teachers, we subconsciously compliment girls on appearance and boys on actions. ("What a pretty picture!" vs. "Look how high you built that tower!")
I recently read Cinderella ate My Daughter and blogged about it here: http://thepocketchronicles.blogspot.com/2011/06/go-away-cinderella.html
I loved the book and hated it at the same time. Loved it because it was so thought-provoking, hated it because the thoughts angered and scared me.- Lynn SW5:19 PM
I love this article and am going to buy Lisa's book as well. I forwarded this article to all my friends and family in hopes that we all will be more conscious of how we talk to the girls and boys in our lives. As the mother of a smart, inquisitive 4 yr old girl, I hope I will show her that she is so much more than how she looks. Thanks a million for the recommendation, Jo!
ReplyDelete My friend posted the link to this article on FB and the theory couldn't be more true, and holds lasting effects throughout life. Sad to say, but I think I'd be smarter/ more confident in myself had adults talked to me more rather than just complimented. I guess I'll just have to do my best now to talk to kids the way I would've liked to be approached. ;)
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, I appreciate the "after the jump" and have been thinking I might add it to some of my own long posts, as well. Good thinking!
Now, onto little girl talk:) I have thought of this issue many, many times, since as you know I have two tiny girls. And we always make a point to tell Devon how smart she is or how funny she is bc I don't want her to associate positive reinforcement with her appearance. We want our girls to be confident because of their brains and good humor. I will definitely have to get this book...thanks for the info!I enjoyed that article very much as well! As a child who grew up more around adults and kids older than me, I learned how to converse intelligently from an early age, and after working as a nanny this summer I can affirm that kids enjoy talking about their interests, passions, and funny moments so much more than what they're wearing!
Great post.I read this article awhile ago, and I love it. I think this should be the norm with adults as well. It's great to compliment someone on what they're wearing, their hair, etc., but it's so much more meaningful to say something about their mind or character.
http://prettyvintagefinds.blogspot.comThank you for this wonderful and thought-provoking post. As a mother of two girls, 2 and 3.5, it is something that I think about a lot. The whole Disney princess thing is fun and difficult to avoid, but I certainly worry about the ideas that it engrains into an young child's mind. On this note, I thought I'd share a wonderful book list that emphasizes strength in women for all of you mothers of little girls: http://www.genderequalbooks.com/Brave_Girls_book_list.html
ReplyDelete- Katie5:29 PM
I loved this post! As a behavior therapist for children with autism and other behavioral/emotional issues, I'm always trying to engage my kids in "regular conversation", such as what they did over the weekend. Learning how to think about and respond to questions is such an important part of social interaction and language. And it's easy for people who don't interact with children every day to forget that once children get started, they love talking about what's important to them (swimming in the pool, riding bikes, etc.)
Thanks so much for posting this now, especially with all of the exciting things that children experience in the summer! I find this topic so interesting, especially now having a sweet 5-month-old girl. I love that children have such creative imaginations, but I would like to find a healthy medium with some of the princess-themed things. It seems to be very popular in this culture for little girls to be raised with princess themes involved, but I hope to also introduce my little one to other things too, like being an explorer.
The idea of reinforcing girls based on looks is so tricky. I was raised with fewer compliments, and I wish I'd had more. I think finding different things to talk about / compliment on -- both intellectual and physical -- might be the key. Probably easier said than done!What an excellent post!
I actually read something a while ago about how we do this not just to young girls but to all girls in our life. When we see an old friend again or bump into someone we haven't see in a while, we often say, you look great! or I love your outfit! Instead of focusing on people's personalities, we focus on their looks, we tell them what we like or don't like about the way they look and not what we think of who they are. It's so easy to do, it's almost a fail safe way to have something to say to someone but it puts so much pressure on appearance and I consciously make an effort to find something else to say to people I run into rather than what I think of their looks. It's tough but I so see the benefit.Just wanted to chime in that I don't like page breaks and never click through to continue. **This does not apply to you** but I sometimes feel that other websites do it just to get their page views up, because there is not always a lot of information after the jump. Again, not saying this about you! I adore you, don't change!
ReplyDeleteAWESOME post! Love this idea, and I can't believe this never occurred to me before. I once had the best conversation with a little girl about the book "Coroline" (sp?) and it was awesome to see her eyes light up when she talked about the scary parts. Adorable.
Thanks for posting this, Joanna!Good advice! So insightful. Just yesterday, I complimented a five year old girl on her pink eyelet dress. But we then proceeded to discuss what she was baking in her toy kitchen, so all was not lost, but all the same, I suppose the dress was the initial impression of our conversation, which perhaps I shall try and change next time!
I like page breaks. They give the site a sleeker, more organized look, like an online magazine or newspaper. And then my initial glance at the web page easier to digest than nearly a foot of text. That's what I think! But we all have our opinions, don't we? :)I absolutely love this! I have a lot of little girl cousins, and it can be rather tricky getting them to come out of their shell and chat. This is such a better perspective on conversation starters and I'll definitely keep it in mind next time I see them. On the flip side, I grew up with aunts constantly fawning over mine and my sister's outfits and hair whenever we saw them...how refreshing it would've been to talk to them about books and share real stories!
ReplyDeleteThis is a great article. However, there was an obvious omission of how to talk to boys. The need for adults to ask them questions that stir their minds to think and reason is equally as important. Its not so much that boys are prone to thinking about their looks ... but the problem is that people don't often ask them to think at all until their 15 and someone is writing about the stats that women are smarter than men. Good article. Would love more.
I have read that article before and am so glad it is a current topic of conversation becuase I think it's SO important and relevant right now as to how our society treats/perceives girls and women. I have a two year old girl and I really want to stress to her that while it's nice to feel pretty, it's so much more wonderful and important to be smart, funny, caring and empathetic. I feel that we have our work cut out for us raising a little girl in today's world, (Disney princess overload) but being mindful of how we speak to girls is a step in the right direction! Thanks for bringing it up....This is a wonderful post! I was painfully shy when I was little, and I remember not being swayed otherwise until I was sure the person could be trusted (in my five year old perception). These were usually people who asked me questions about school, or what dolls I liked, or what my favorite food was. I think it's actually a part of my personality that has stuck around, because I always prefer to talk to people who ask about my goals or what I'm interested in, rather than engaging in small talk. Off to read the article...thanks so much for sharing Joanna. Xo, Katie
ReplyDeleteWhen I was growing up, my parents always taught us that it was better to read and learn than it was to be pretty. I now have a 4 yr old niece and I tend to talk about books or make up stories with her. I try not to comment about her appearance so she doesn't place too much importance on it.
ReplyDeleteI am so conscious of this--especially as the mother of a ridiculously adorable 2 year old. it makes me uncomfortable every time strangers come up to her and go on and on about how adorable she is (and she is--red pigtails and big blue eyes). I worry that she will only be seen as a cute kid and that no one will actually talk to her. I hope more people put this idea into practice, and I have tried myself.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe what a revelation this is for the blogosphere. Was no one having decent conversations with little girls before this article came out? I tend to treat children the same as adults in regards to the depth of our conversations. I am unlikely to dive right into conversation with a woman on the train, but I will certainly compliment a cute pair of shoes. Same goes for any five-year-old. Appearance is the first thing we notice, not because we're assholes but because we HAVE EYES.
I don't mean to dis the message, though. It is important not to place too great an amount of emphasis on appearance. With three much younger sisters as well as being a nanny for a two year old girl, I'm probably a bit spoiled with the presence of young girls who are so amazing I am blind to what is going on with the rest of them. Personally, I'm a 25-year-old girl who thinks she's pretty but knows that there needs to be a lot more behind that to get by. I grew up with a mother and a step-mother, neither of whom placed any emphasis on things like makeup, but I still loved dressing up and loved getting compliments on my favorite hat/pair of shoes/new haircut.
This is so discombobulated, but what I'm getting at is that I don't feel that it is a stranger on the train's job to have these intelligent conversations with girls. In my experience, it comes down to the people the little girl is around most of the time. The ones she grows to admire. How are they communicating with her?
Further, I am becoming more and more infuriated that there is so little emphasis, EVER, on little boys. We're so careful and precious with how we bring up the girls, but what about the little dudes? Surely you wonder about this...?
Sorry about all these fragmented thoughts. I swear I'm not a gender studies major— in fact I'm more of an eye-roller myself when people go off on such tangents.
I see a lot of the world these days through twin two-year-olds and know that, while the girl is fine with her strong and bossy attitude ("you go girl!" and all that), it would probably be best for the boy, in today's world, if he was a little more quiet. I'm not sure a ton of women have a problem with that, but as a future mother (a few years down the road, obviously!) I'm worried that we're losing the actual idea of equality and that any sons I might have won't know how to speak their minds for the grave fear of overshadowing a woman.I read that article last week, and it has been resonating with me ever since. I am a product of growing up in an environment where looks mattered more than anything, and even now (I am 26) the first thing my family comments on when I visit is my hair or weight. It really frustrates me. As if everything I am can be conveyed through straight hair, a cute outfit and numbers on a scale. I hate this way of thinking!
I don't have children yet, but when I do, I will definitely talk to them in a way that spotlights their mind instead of their looks. Love every bit of that article and all that you added as well. ;o)- Lena6:05 PM
This is so important! With small girls it is so easy to compliment looks, and call them "mommys little helper", and give them a play stove for christmas, and so on. BUT! Dont forget the boys. They are always complimented for their strong and curageos abilities, playing with tools and cars.
To keep moving forward, we should teach our young girls that they are strong and smart, and that women also drives trucks and uses hammers. The small boys needs to learn that it is a nice thing to feel pretty and beautiful, it is ok to be weak and to cry.
A friend of mine always lets her son chose his own clothes, even in the clothingstore. I get so proud and happy, everytime he wears his beloved pink tunic with little red hearts on it. Its pretty, and that makes him happy.
Sorry for my broken english, but here comes a little hello from sweden! what a wonderful post. i've never consciously made the decision to ask little kids questions about them and their ideas, but more than not i ask, "how old are you?" OR "what do you want to be when you grow up?" i love the responses i get when i ask them what they want to be. at times i do comment on their hair, clothes, looks, with out the intention of focusing soley on their outward appearance. thank you for the post, it will make me be more mindful of my conversations with little ones.
ReplyDeletethis is such a great post. I honestly hadn't thought about it before... whether or not I do this. It completely makes sense though.
xox dana
thewonderforest.comThis is really interesting, Joanna! I think it's important to talk this way to both boys and girls, as it develops their interests and more importantly their communication skills. I was so shy when I was a little girl, so I think that if strangers had real conversations with me instead of telling me how cute I was :) I might not have hid behind my mom all the time!
Thanks for sharing this!
xo,DarinaThis is a wonderful post. I love this idea, and like you will have to stop and think the next time I talk to a little girl. I can remember some of the comments (good and bad) that adults would give me about my appearance when I was younger and they stuck with me growing up and still do as an adult. This is a great way to boost the self-esteem of young people.
ReplyDeleteFunny--I first saw that book at the library and totally judged it by it's cover (pink, sparkly--eh.) I just picked it up after reading about it on Pacing the Panic Room. I can't wait to read it, as I have a 15 month old daughter.
I also read the article you're talking about. I will engage more with little girls from now on too, although it always feels nice to get a compliment from a stranger when you know its sincere!- melissa6:09 PM
ughhh...i have a pit in my stomach. I definitely do this and never ever realized I do (in fact I remember complimenting our cousin's daughter just yesterday on her dress). I can't believe I never really realized this - going to definitely make more of an effort. Thanks so much for posting Joanna.
ReplyDelete In Chinese culture (at least from my experience), the typical conversation starter/compliment to give to a child is to tell them how well-behaved they are because it's really another way of complimenting the parents, whom you're actually socializing with. Or else the child might be asked if they are learning to play an instrument because, you know, stereotypes 'n all. But anyway, I really love the idea of asking a girl (or boy!) about their interests and activities! I just welcomed my first niece into the world so I'm excited for her to be old enough for me to talk to her about what books she's reading or what she had for dinner =) Thank you for sharing this!
And I totally appreciate the "after-the-jump" breaks on longer posts. It keeps the main blog site cleaner, I think =)so TRUE! I have a 3 year old daughter and she is the only girl amongst 6 cousins! of course my sisters treat her like a little princess, I guess don't mind because they are family. but strangers do approach us and most if not all the time, they always compliment her clothes or say how cute she is.
I will have to read this article, because I want to raise a well rounded daughter, I want her to know she is an intelligent and bright kid. thanks Joanna for sharing this, I really really mean it!Thank you so much for posting this! I'm going to have a girl in a few months--and there are some things about girls that I want to get right...and raising a girl who thinks is top of that list! It is so important for us ladies to know how to communicate--more important than men sometimes because everyone listens to what a man says, even if he is not saying anything--but no one listens to a women when she is saying everything! Thanks again!!!
ReplyDelete- Anonymous6:17 PM
I appreciate the idea, but I don't think anyone should devalue compliments. Compliments can reinforce self-confidence in children's bodies. Promoting a healthy self-image is difficult, though, because you want to praise both appearance AND personality/intelligence/creativity/unseen things.
But to those of you who do give compliments, don't feel bad about it. I've suffered with an ED for over 7 years now, and I still feel that there were things in my childhood said/unsaid that could have prevented this. This is my favorite Motherhood Monday post thus far.I read that same Huffington Post article last week.
I work with little boys who tend to play solely with other boys so my interaction with young girls is limited, but I have had MANY conversations with friends on this topic {as well as on why pottery barn kids insists on selling pick kitchen sets, ironing boards, jewelry boxes,vacuum cleaners...etc and boys get red, blue, green fire trucks, airplanes, dinosaurs and other imagination and goal inspiring item} and I find that this concept of focusing on a girls looks beginning from birth stays with her well into womanhood which is why when I meet another female I feel like it's pulling teeth to start a conversation regarding politics, books, art, etc, but if I compliment her outfit she more apt to respond to me positively.
Fabulous topic choice today Ms. Joanna!this is really really interesting!thanks joanna! i never thought about the consequences before. i nearly always comment on little girls outfits or tell them they are beautiful but probably mostly because i was never told myself growing up. if anything little ocmments my mom made implied albeit indirectly that i was the opposite. funnily enough recently though my mom did say i was beautiful on the phone to me for the first time (i'm now 33) and i didn't know how to react. i just laughed it off. this is such wonderful advice and i'm going to implement it from now on definitely. it surely gives children a sense of importance in the world.
ReplyDeleteWe have a four year old little girl, and I won't lie she's quite beautiful. However she is also quite brilliant. People are drawn to her where everyone we go, and I'd say 95% of the time they open conversations with her about her clothes, eyes, etc. She is a girly-girl so she eats it up, but once she starts talking they realize how intellectual she is for such a young child and the topic of conversation moves onto more "deep" topics. It drives me nuts sometimes that people notice her beauty first, but I remind myself that despite our best efforts as human beings we are first drawn to a person's appearance and once the door is opened then we see what that person is really about.
ReplyDeleteJoanna, I love that you linked to that article! I read it recently, and it definitely presents a fresh perspective on how we condition our children to behave and to value themselves. My first nephew was just born, and my sister and I were talking about how stinking beautiful he is. Humans are visual creatures, so how can we resist commenting on what we see? We measure each other all the time based on our first (optical) impression, and we teach our children to do the same. While my nephew IS absolutely adorable, what's more amazing about him is that he is always learning and already growing into the man he will be as an adult. Hopefully that man will know better than to judge those he meets on looks alone. And hopefully we can help him and the children of this next generation to do the same.
Thanks for posting!My daughter is six years old and I do really believe that she's very beautyful, evreytime I look at her I tell her "Laura you are so beautyful, your hairs look like silk..." after few seconds I stop myself, look at her and tell her: But remember that in your life it's much more important being intelligent than beautyful... and go on talking about what intelligent means and so on... Your tip will be really useful to me!!!! The first sentence goes straight to the point
ReplyDeleteMy daughter is complimented everywhere we go. People from 10 to 80 stop in their tracks to tell her how pretty she is. She is, quite literally, arrestingly beautiful. The thing is, she was born with a wide cleft lip and palate which she lived with for the first year of her life. She's had three surgeries and will have many more. I'm not sure whether it's this fact, or the fact that she is a serious tomboy, or a combination of the two, but she loathes being told she is pretty. She instantly turns away the moment the word "pretty" leaves a stranger's lips. Even for me, it has been hard to learn not to tell her how lovely she is (she is my adopted daughter, not biological). But she has taught me well, and I have learned. For her, pride comes with achievement - be it athletic, mathematical, verbal, or simply just the successful mastery of a card trick. And I think that's as it should be.
ReplyDelete- Anonymous6:35 PM
Great post! I think this is a great idea but I also think it can be a little tricky in practice. By which I mean that a few compliments about the way someone looks can be positive if they don't dominate discussions (or compliments) about other things. I say this because, when I was a child, both my parents were obsessive about gender issues and decided that they would never make a single comment--good or bad--about my appearance. By and large, I think that worked out pretty well (although I'm hardly objective). But I would also say that never once hearing that you're cute or pretty can take a toll on your self-esteem when it comes to your looks--even if your parents signal to you (in every possible way)that looks aren't important. Just a thought!
ReplyDelete - Anonymous7:03 PM
I actually think this is wise advice regardless of gender. My parents from a very young age always had their kids at family dinner where we discussed everything from politics to books. It's really important not to talk down to kids, whether about their pretty shoes or anything else "silly." While it's hard to have a conversation with young children, they will be more intelligent elementary schoolers who are comfortable in adult conversation. Even at 25, I remember the efforts of adults to have genuine conversations with me, and how much I was excited by their attention.
ReplyDelete - Virginia7:21 PM
As an Australian, I have to say that it was comforting to learn that as a complete stranger on a New York bus you can actually strike up a conversation with a little girl and not get locked up! (This is not the impression we get from TV - or maybe Toby was your alibi!)
I agree with a few other commenters - this is my favourite Motherhood Monday post so far and I shared with with my daughters, sisters-in-law and nieces.
It did make me reflect on our behaviour with little boys, though - what are the no-brainer opening gambits we're guilty of with them? I'm with Suzy (above). A compliment is a compliment and should be welcomed. A chat about books is great, too. Do we really need to separate the two? And is someone's daughter going to be devalued over time because she hears how stinkin' cute she is? Puhlease. A great portion of this blog is dedicated to hair, lipstick, clothes -- and we're all the better for it. Joanna, you're a talented writer and, I should be sorry to say, beautiful. Enjoy.
ReplyDelete- Lindsay M7:28 PM
I LOVE this idea. You do such a good job of balancing this blog between useful/ interesting content and fashion/ day-to-day posts. I have been an every day reader for about 2.5 years.
The after-the-jump format is great for long posts. I do, however, really like the style you have that allows the reader to see a full post on the landing page. Keep up the good work! This idea to ask kids real questions about their ideas and what they're reading, etc. is fantastic for both boys and girls. Of course, it takes the focus off girls' looks and places it more appropriately (and fairly, really, as most people don't focus on boys' looks). But it also keeps adults from dumbing down conversations with children. Clearly, they have plenty to say and a lot to teach us.
ReplyDeleteI think this is so wise. I had a similar revelation a few years back when I realized that my sudden shift in self-esteem lined up quite succinctly with the point in time when I stopped hearing "You look so pretty!" or similar compliments. Growing up as a girl, you hear it all the time, yes? But somewhere along the way it stops (for most of us:)) and we are left to sort through the "why?" Suddenly it's because our nose is too big or our thighs are too think. How much easier it would be if we all had a bit more balance from the beginning- if i'd understood the beauty of an interesting mind as opposed to the perfect hair:)
ReplyDeleteGreat article, and I love your story too.I can definitely relate. I admit that I sometimes think of little girls as overly "precious" and hard to relate to, but that could be because all I talk about with them are superficial topics.
I think the exception is that some girls are very creative/nonconformist with their clothing choices, and maybe we want to encourage that?It's amazing what you can get out of children if you allow them to converse. They are bursting with stories and imagination - but because we don't really know how to connect with kids other than 'that's a pretty dress', we deny ourselves the sheer delight that comes with really talking to a child and hearing the world through their voice. Great article! x
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is very important to talk to little children about their thoughts and ideas to make them feel heard, respected, and interesting, and to make them want to have interesting things to talk about. (I know that as I got older and started to be interested in "grown up" subjects, it made me even more interested if I knew there was someone who would want to talk about them with me.) At the same time, though, it is important for girls, especially as they move into bigger girl stage to feel beautiful, and while a lot of that comes from within, it also makes a big difference (at least, it always has for me) when people complement me. My mom has told me that it made an impact on her when her father never said "you are beautiful" to her. For your reference, this comes from a 15 year old girl, so I may not have the hindsight that you have, but I have a different perspective. Thank you for talking about this, as it is so so important.
ReplyDeleteThis post broke my heart. I am probably the worst offender at telling little girls, "You look so beautiful in that dress!" I never meant any harm (sorry, Joanna), but I am a member of the culture and so so the popular thing. No more! I was at the pool today and a sweet little girl and her sweet brother were swimming. She said, "I am going to dance underwater with my boyfriend." Her brother answered. "Who's your boyfriend?" SHe answered, "I am just pretending." I think my reaction if I talked with her would be so different after reading thins. Instead of "What are you wearing to dance?", or who is your handsome boyfriend?", I might say, "What kind of dance do you like? Do you like to do other sports?" "Do you like to swim?" "Which strokes?" Honestly, I think this post is really critical. I stand corrected. And, Joanna, I would like to ask what books do you like? xoxoxoxooxox
ReplyDelete- Anonymous8:08 PM
I think this is a great concept. I don't like the idea of COMPLETELY cutting out compliments about appearance. Let's be honest. Girls crave that, whether its important or not. If I have daughters I want them to have a lot of substance AND feel like they are each beautiful in their own way.
ReplyDelete I try hard to ask children about interesting things rather than compliment them. I love to ask them about their lives: what kind of house they live in, what their parents do at work, what they like or don't like about school.
It seems to me that people never really talk with children - they talk TO them and that, to me, isn't as much fun.i kinda think it's important to do both. yes, of course girls need to talk about ideas and things rather than their looks, but i also think that we're hardwired to crave hearing that we're beautiful. we want to be wanted for that too.
but it's weird how instinctual it is to just tell little girls that they're pretty right away. i can't think of anything i automatically say to a little boy?
anddd i kind of don't like the page breaks even with longer posts, but i understand why you do it. so whatever :) i'm flexibleJoanna, what a great post.
It is instinctual in a way..but even though I haven't read this book, I stop myself.
My grandmother was a model and she was gorgeous. She always complimented how we looked at that's all we ever talked about, really. She was an awesome, awesome lady...but I do think the culture of this in my family affected me in some ways. And I never felt QUITE pretty enough..which can be an unhealthy thought when you make appearances so important.
We owe it to the next generation of little girls to teach them it's what's in their hearts and minds that matters and not how they look.
Lovely, lovely, post. Thank you for so eloquently writing about this. :)- Anonymous8:44 PM
I just love this idea.
I'm going to see my friend's daughter soon, so I will try this.
I grew up in Japan, and most adult at that time (80's) asked us about studying and competing,
"how far have you learn about fraction? what is your grade? how long can you swim?"
I didn't like it and I guess my mom didn't, too...
I love this new idea more! Independent of this blog post, I recently read that same article about how to talk to girls and it made an impression. I'm a wedding photographer, and am often needing to butter kids up so they like me enough to smile for pictures. (That, or they're just so damn cute I butter them up for no reason at all.) Anyway--I realized my "in" with kids is always how they look or what they're wearing (boys or girls): "Wow! Those are some COOL shoes!" "What a SWEET vest!". But last week I caught myself almost mid-sentence when I noticed the flower girl was holding a book. "How's your book?" I asked. She smiled and then COULD NOT STOP TALKING! About that book and her favourite books, and school and......I wasn't even asking questions, it was just all pouring out of her. My heart was racing as I was chatting with her, as if I had hit on a gold mine. Really eye opening experience.
I've been watching how I speak to kids since then. Never is my first remark to a boy or a girl anything about their attire or their looks. And what's amazing is the time I have to think before I can engage with them--it's hard!--which shows me how mindless the comments about looks were, and just makes me want to succeed at my challenge even more.As a photographer, I find that it's really easy to jump to complimenting kids (and adults) on what they've chosen to wear for a photo session. That conversation, however, is quick to dry up and then I'm all about trying to keep the kids engaged, and focusing on me.
After reading this post, I think I'm going to stop with the 'don't you look pretty' opening and go right into engaging them in conversation. Such a simple thing, but it makes total sense!I don't compliment girls so much as I tell all kids how cute they are. I also like to converse with kids in this manner, too. I find kids hilarious and the only way for them to crack their jokes is to get them talking about something crazy. It was always one of my favorite things to do with kids I nannied. : O )
ReplyDeleteGosh, I find myself having to consciously stop and THINK before starting up a good conversation with little or grown girls. Like most of your readers, I consider myself an educated woman. But, hot damn, that initial -unintentionally awkward- pause forces me to register a more intelligent conversation starter over the yucky, "Oh! Look at your sweet dress!" Ugh. Just today I was walking with my husband and came across a mother with her one year old wabbling daughter. And let me tell you, we both had to stop ourselves from saying how darn CUTE she was in her little shoes and dress (she was!). Instead, the husband and I remarked at how happy she seemed walking so well and how neat it must be to find such interesting things in the grass. And she was ONE!!! Still, she beamed and smiled and connected with our dialogue. Maybe we put ourselves through too much stress with this sort of thing, but I think it's important. Especially having been a teacher, I saw the spectrum of girls and it really does seem to make a positive difference. Thank you for opening this up for discussion... great post.
ReplyDeleteOh My Gosh!! this is awesome! i remember being a kid and all the stupid stuff adults would say to me...i don't want to be one of them when i grow up (i'm 16) because i hated that when i was little. my first niece was just born yesterday, i can't wait till we can talk about cool stuff like books and pancakes and trips!
ReplyDeleteHoly Comments, Batman!!
I agree with Rachel, this is one of my favorite posts - though its my first time visiting your blog, so I'm not sure it counts; but I loved what you had to say. Its so important to have a balance. All girls are beautiful and should be told so, but the outside is only a small part of that beauty. Thanks for the thoughts!Great post, Joanna! I always talk to kids and you're right, my first instinct is to tell them how pretty they look or that I like their outfit. I think I'm pretty good at talking to kids, many times asking them about school--which I think is a totally boring question and they probably don't want to talk about it. I will definitely be more conscious about this in the future and am excited to ask some more pointed questions like the ones you suggest here. Thanks for sharing!
ReplyDeletei love love love this concept... but it works so well as a conversation starter...especially with "big" girls! i find it awkward to start a conversation, so when i want to talk to someone i always start with a compliment (and i've made great friends starting this way!). the conversations always lead to deeper subjects, but its just such an easy way to start...
ReplyDeleteSo interesting, and I totally agree it's important to focus on their minds rather than their looks! But I always thank my Dad, because in my entire life, I never heard him compliment a woman's looks other than my mom's and my own (not even models on TV!) I think that helped me to be comfortable in my own skin, without detracting at all from the importance of my mind.
ReplyDeleteI'm on board with this completely. Having a little boy, I also think of the following:
1) Complement boys on their appearance as well. Most people immediately ask boys their favorite animal, game, or what have you. Tell them they are beautiful and delicious. Be equally as affectionate as you would with a little girl.
2) Look at the clothing available in most stores for boys and/or girls. For boys, even the basic t-shirts have trucks/dinos/cars. Unless you start to buy higher end, it's harder to find more gender neutral stuff.
Short tangential story -- a friend of mine was at the library with her daughter (wearing pants, a shirt, and sparkly shoes). Her daughter was reading a book about trucks with another child. The other child's mother complemented my friend on her son's reading ability. My friend, not caring all that much, responded that Ayla adores reading. At which point the other mother commented that she was SO sorry, that she should have known by the shoes. To which my friend replied, "Or she could have been a boy who loves sparkly shoes." The woman didn't have a response. LOVE IT.
3) Another two book recommendations: Brain Rules for Baby (John Medina) & Pink Brain Blue Brain (Lise Eliot).
Delightful post.
AmberI think this is a great idea, but I don't think it just applies to girls. I find myself saying the exact same thing to boys. Think about it... If you see ANY cute kid, usually the first instinct of any adult is to say something along the lines of, "You are too cute. How old are you? What's your name?" But complimenting their looks is usually the first thing you do with both genders... not just the girls.
It could be why boys are so obsessed with looks as well, rather than just liking girls for their brains?Thank you so much for sharing this. I am the mother of three girls and while they are adorable this is what is most often said to them at the start...'oh don't you look pretty today'...or 'how cute are you'...and so on. I never really thought too much about it before but after reading this it is so true that this teaches girls that their looks are more important than their minds. I will certainly consider this the next time I have the chance to talk to a young girl...fabulous and I bet you made this little girls day! Thanks again for sharing.
ReplyDeleteI love this idea! When I was growing up I was a little nerdy girl, with short hair and glasses, I always joke that JK Rowling based Harry Potter on my looks...:)
Now I finally look like a woman, but I really appreciate all that my childhood gave to me in terms of not focusing on my looks but making me try to be more interesting and perhaps intelligent.
This is such a great idea, I will definitely keep it in mind, it's funny how natural clothes or looks make for a compliment usually.
LucyOne other note: When we lived in France people would look at you and Lucy in the twin stroller and say, "Oh she is the pretty one," or "She is the smart one." I hated it. Why do people have to compare? Children are unique and lovely in their own right. They just are who they are -beautiful, plain, handsome, intelligent, disabled or any other category. They are all lovable and deserving of our tenderness.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a fine balance. Children need to hear that they're beautiful (just as they are!). But it shouldn't be all that they hear.
Read the Cinderella book a couple months ago & am on Packaging Girlhood now - both have/are making me think harder about how I raise my girls. Thanks for the link to this article! It fits perfectly with the books.When my daughter (now almost three) was born, I made a huge effort not to tell her how lovely she was when I was cooing sweet nothings. I would stop myself and tell her instead that she was smart and strong and amazing. At some point that broke down, and now I tell her that she is smart and strong and amazing...and beautiful!
I have to say that I use clothes as an entry point for conversations with little boys, too.I loved that article! When I was little, even into middle school, adults also compliment me on how skinny/tall I was. I would get so annoyed. Perhaps even then I knew there was more to me than my (albeit awkward) looks. But it's still hard to not compliment little girls on their looks. But I am determined to try!!
ReplyDeleteI am a fourth grade teacher and I commonly see little girls spoken to about their looks and such by other teachers at the school. I have found myself wondering the same thing: should we really place that much emphasis on those superficial things? I feel that focusing on the traits that truly make people stand out in a more meaningful way will certainly help people to see those special traits in themselves. Great post!
ReplyDeleteI love this advice. While it applies more for girls and young women are actively developing their sense of self, I think the same case could be made for adults. Of course, talking about clothes/hair/makeup with friends seems fine, if that's what you like/have in common with each other. But with strangers or acquaintances that are even our own age, I think it's best to keep this to a minimum. It does seems easy to pay someone a more superficial compliment like "nice bag!," but searching for something better would make for more substantial interactions.
ReplyDeleteI read this article earlier last month and have been trying to keep to it. I have a lot of young cousins, and we've been having some good conversations. I help out in the nursery (ages 0-3) at my church and I find this most difficult with these girls.
On a different note, I'm not a fan of the "after the jump" page breaks, but it won't keep me from reading your posts.


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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:19 PM
This years NYS convention is all about technology and remaining anonymous in the times of rapid tech growth. Should be interesting...
really.. this should be interesting! how does one stay "anonymous" online when an e-mail address or usually something is needed to verify entry to a web site ya know?

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In an effort to stem gun violence across the United States, President Barack Obama on Wednesday signed 23 executive actions, which don't require congressional approval -- some of which called for tougher enforcement of existing laws and required federal agencies to provide data for background checks.
He also proposed background checks on all future gun sales, as recommended by a task force led by Vice President Joe Biden. But Congress would have to approve that policy.
The term "universal background checks," used by some gun control supporters, is code for closing federal loopholes so that such checks will be conducted at gun shows and other private sales.
U.S. law requires background checks for all people who try to buy firearms from federally licensed dealers. But federal law does not require background checks for "private transactions," such as sales at gun shows. Many states have their own statutes requiring such checks for private sales.
Across the country, more than 1 million people failed background checks to buy guns during the past 14 years because of criminal records, drug use or mental health issues, according to FBI figures. That figure, however, is a small fraction of overall gun sales.
The issue has risen high in the national conversation after the shock ignited by December's mass shooting of six adults and 20 children at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.
Expanded background checks now enjoy the support of mayors in some of the largest cities in America. The idea has been embraced by gun violence survivor Gabrielle Giffords, a self-described gun owner.
"This may be the single most important gun violence prevention measure that the government could adopt," said Lindsay Nichols, an attorney with the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "This loophole means that dangerous criminals and dangerously mentally ill individuals have a most unfettered access to firearms."
But National Rifle Association President David Keene suggested to CNN's Candy Crowley that he has little faith in universal background checks, saying they don't work.
Keene spoke a few days after sitting in on the Biden task force. He implied that the task force wasn't sincerely considering NRA positions on gun control issues, saying they were simply "checking the box. They were able to say, 'We've met with the NRA. We've met with the people that are strong Second Amendment supporters.' "


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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 64
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:07 pm
Post subject:
w8n4wind wrote:
ive got a 20 yr old megacat still in service, its seen a lot of abuse over the years.. in the ocean, and great lakes, and its been in conditions it was never intended for..including shorebreak..
In fairness to board manufacturers, your Mega Cat was more expensive outright when purchased 20 years ago than the WindSUP is in today's dollars. If the WindSUP were $3k, it would be built as well as your Mega Cat no doubt.
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:49 pm
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Actually in fairness to the consumer, the only thing a manufacturer cares about these days is the bottom line. It was more than 20 years ago that the important thing was the best product for the best price. Everything is throwaway now. The retailer and the consumer are the quality control dept. and that is called increased worker productivity.
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:38 am
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westender wrote:
Actually in fairness to the consumer, the only thing a manufacturer cares about these days is the bottom line. It was more than 20 years ago that the important thing was the best product for the best price. Everything is throwaway now. The retailer and the consumer are the quality control dept. and that is called increased worker productivity.
Consumers set prices more than manufacturers, in that they are willing to pay x, and if a product is more than x, they won't buy it. Consumer demand for more products at cheaper prices does lead to lower quality, obviously - but that's what people want. Not everyone, but most people. I don't think Exocet set out to make a lower-quality product - on the contrary, I think they have very creative and innovative designs that speak to a passion for what they do. How else do you get to something like the Kona brand (now sold), or like the Exocet D2, which by the way is sensibly priced above $3k - a highly specialized product, though. To manufacture and ship a longboard of high quality for the $1600 price of the WindSUP is a challenge, I suspect. Who manufactures it - cobra?
Personally, for these broad-appeal longboards, I think BIC has the right idea with their green-friendly(er), French-made Ace-Tec boards - but such is the power of scale. I doubt Exocet could undertake their own manufacturing, however much incidents like these might make them want to do so.
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 951
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:10 am
Post subject:
Another factor, often vociferously stressed by one of our angry (at the current state of windsurfing) ex importers is that the building of longboards to both perform and last is an acquired art, which reached a peak in the old longboard era and which was forgotten when longboards were generally abandoned and ignored by the industry. (The people who built them had moved on, and the skills were lost.)
When Cobra reintroduced longboards they had no experience of the necessary construction techniques, and the first Phantoms couldn't 'take it', fell apart, and had to be recalled. Cobra do now seem to have 'got it' and the current Cobra longboards have struck a better balance between weight, cost, and durability. Whether or not they are 'up there' with the best of yesteryear, time will tell. (The 20+ year old Ace-Tec Bic Bamba mast track is fettled, and back in sevice.)
In longboards, the stresses of surf and chop pounding are such that there is little room for skimping on construction and decent materials, and reports seem to suggest that some S.U.P. boards are not being built to the same standards as proper longboards.
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Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2375
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:56 am
Post subject:
Gentlemen your discussions are turning to what drives sales, one product over the other. The construction details, ie how much glass, carbon, Kevlar and how thick the pine, cost of manufacture mean little when they
don't stand behind the product, meaning good olde Customer Service to back up the sale with support. The assembly staff is another matter, who are probably under pressure to build so many each day, so
quality control gets a back seat over a daily number out the door.
In that respect we do have a throw away product base nowadaze, I am constantly baffled why I can not purchase replacement parts, being told they don't exist.
what goes around comes around
Rights in Rodanthe
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Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 310
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:20 pm
Post subject:
Well it's getting interesting, I just got another email from Patrice, he's concerned about the bad publicity and requesting additional information.
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Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11608
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:50 pm
Post subject:
beaglebuddy wrote:
Well it's getting interesting, I just got another email from Patrice, he's concerned about the bad publicity and requesting additional information.
Let's hope he does the right thing, and I don't mean simply caving to public pressure. The real issue should be whether an owner abuses a product beyond its intended, rational and stated purpose, not how much users complain.
When Pontiac Motors Zone Manager Ton Sanden absolutely F-ed me on a warranty in 1966, the ONLY thing that kept me from hitting him was the certainty of breaking his jaw and going to jail. OTOH, if I break a lightweight slalom board by jumping it too much, that's not the manufacturer's fault. Just because a product is within its warranty period doesn't mean it is morally, legally, or rationally bombproof.
BTW I've never had a reason to file a warranty claim on a mass manufactured board; my failures, including some total and permanent hull failures, have been on full-weight custom Gorge jump boards.
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Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2375
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:07 pm
Post subject:
beaglebuddy wrote:
Well it's getting interesting, I just got another email from Patrice, he's concerned about the bad publicity and requesting additional information.
I would post , if you are inclined, on the BOARDS UK forum or France
or Hot Sails , which have more International presence
Rights in Rodanthe
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Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 310
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:14 pm
Post subject:
When I started this thread back in October I had not yet contacted my dealer or Exocet, I was just trying to gain information as to what the problem might be.
Then I contacted the dealer and gave him the link to this thread, he contacted Exocet but wasn't getting the response that would help.
I have purposely been quiet about it until recently giving them every opportunity to make it right.
Actually I'm surprised the moderators let this thread continue, several years ago someone busted up some Naish SUP boards in the surf and he was upset about the quality, he reported on it a SUP forum and it was immediately pulled, so he started his own website about it somewhere.
My desire is not to run down Exocet, I'm just reporting the facts and letting everyone else comment, let the chips fall where they may.
Hopefully the outcome will include getting both my own and Boardsurfr's boards repaired or replaced and this possible design or manufacturing problem solved.
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Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 4687
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:45 pm
Post subject:
You know, this whole issue is about fairness in business between a buyer, a retailer and the manufacturer or brand. That's why warranties come with the product. Warranties legally hold the manufacturer responsible for maintaining their side of the obligation. In your situation, the case was not being handled in a timely manner, and it was understandable that you were unsatisfied. I know I wouldn't be.
I guess the question you need to ask yourself is whether bringing your issue to a public forum was a good path. In fairness though, your initial posting was more a question about what might be going on with your board. The actual crossroads though came with Patrice's response. Do you keep the contact between you, your retailer and Exocet, or do you bring it to the public. Nothing wrong with bringing it on a stage of sorts, particularly if you are unhappy and question whether you're being treated fairly. It's a given that public media is used regularly to bring attention to many things and to elicit a response or feedback.
Like I mentioned earlier, Patrice's initial response was lame. The suggestion of side shore winds being a warranty busting factor just made my eyes roll. Side shore winds are what most of us wish for when we show up at the beach. The fact that you were using the WindSUP seems to suggest to me that the wind was most likely on the light side, otherwise you would most likely been on lower volume board more dedicated to planing and maneuverability.
One of the most important parts of a warranty is whether the product performs as designed, and whether it fulfills its intended purpose without failure. Seems quite clear to me that the board is showing evidence of failure in an important area, and there doesn't seem to be any obvious evidence that you mistreated the board. While such a failure in construction may not necessarily dictate the board's replacement, at a minimum, I think that it would warrant an appropriate repair by someone qualified to do such work.
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Clinical Cases for General Practice Exams
by Susan Wearne & Susan Wearne
Susan qualified in medicine in 1987 from Southampton University and undertook GP training in Northamptonshire and Cheshire, England. She was a GP principal in training practices in Manchester and York. She taught communication skills in the ...
Binding: Paperback Book
Practical and Positive Ways of Adapting to Chronic Pain
by Michael Nicholas, Allan Molloy, Lois Tonkin & others
If you have chronic pain and you are wondering if this book could be helpful to you, try answering the following questions. Over the last month or so how often have you: 1. Used pain killers to do something you know will stir up your pain? 2.
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"The Clinical Placement: An Essential Guide for Nursing Students 2/e" is a unique text designed to assist nursing students, and their facilitators, as they navigate their way through the clinical placement learning experience. Written in an ...
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Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
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Unlocking the Mystery of Human Nature
by V. S. Ramachandran
John, aged sixty, suffered a stroke and recovered fully, except in one respect: although he can see perfectly, he can no longer recognise faces, even his own reflection in a mirror. Whenever Francesca touches a particular texture, she experiences ...
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by Louise Hay & Louise L. Hay

This New York Times Bestseller has sold over 30 million copies worldwide. Louise's key message in this powerful work is: 'If we are willing to do the mental work, almost anything can be healed.'

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A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Nursing Home
A Different Handbook for Carers of Dementia Patients
by Jim Connor
This engaging book is based on personal experience. It gives those who suddenly find themselves in the role of carer basic guidance on the altogether different reality of this devastating mental deterioration. Of course, it is also valuable to ...
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Do you have, or suspect you have thyroid problems? If you are still overweight even though you've tried diet after diet, and you feel tired and sluggish all the time, then this book could be your saviour. This international bestseller is a mine ...
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by Louise L. Hay
You Can Heal Your Life has now been turned into an entertaining and inspirational movie hosted by best-selling author Louise L. Hay. Featuring her colleagues such as Wayne W. Dyer, Jerry and Esther Hicks (The Teachings of Abraham), and Leon ...
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Understanding Alzheimer's and Other Dementias
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As the aged population increases, more and more people will be faced with caring for a friend or family member with dementia. There are currently 250,000 dementia sufferers in Australia and this is set to increase to 1.3 million over the next ...
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Fit and Well+ HQ 4.2cd+ Wksheet+Pweb
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Prescription for Nutritional Healing
A Practical A-to-Z Reference to Drug-free Remedies Using Vitamins, Minerals, Herbs and Food Supplements
by Phyllis A. Balch
"Prescription for Nutritional Healing" is the nation's number 1 bestselling guide to natural remedies. This new fifth edition incorporates the most recent information on a variety of alternative healing and preventive therapies and unveils new ...
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Reducing Stress-related Behaviours in People with Dementia
Care-based Therapy
by Chris Bonner
This practical book provides simple and imaginative ways to prevent and reduce stress-related behaviours in people with dementia in residential care. The author's approach is based on maximizing personal expression and fulfilment and recovering ...
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All Cats Have Asperger Syndrome
by Kathy Hoopmann
"All Cats Have Asperger Syndrome" takes a playful look at Asperger Syndrome (AS), drawing inspiration from the feline world in a way that will strike a chord with all those who are familiar with AS. Delightful colour photographs of cats bring to ...
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At the Dawn of Personal Genomics
by Misha Angrist
In April 2007, Misha Angrist became the fourth subject in the Personal Genome Project, George Church's ambitious plan to sequence the entire genomic catalogue - every participant's 20,000+ genes and the rest of his/her six billion base pairs.
Binding: Hardback Book
by Marjorie Jenkins
This is the first case-based guide to primary care for women. Useful for care-givers ranging from medical students to physicians to nurse practitioners, "Women's Health" is a much-needed review of case studies relating to a subject that until ...
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A New Nurse Faces Death, Life, and Everything in Between
by Theresa Brown
At my job, people die, writes Theresa Brown, capturing both the burden and the singular importance of her profession. "Critical Care" chronicles Brown, a former English Professor at Tufts University, on her first year as an RN in medical oncology ...
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CURRENT Essentials of Nephrology & Hypertension
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To-the-point diagnostic and therapeutic information on kidney diseases, hypertension, and kidney transplantation CURRENT Essentials of Nephrology & Hypertension is a practical, state-of-the-art review of the clinical management of kidney disease ...
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text:
Blue textured Black Label tailored fit shirt
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text:
Rosemary's Baby (with bonus tracks)
CD (Item 614149) Dot/La La Land, 1970 — Condition: New Copy
An amazing little soundtrack – one that's as spooky and eerie as the film for which it was written, and which was also one of the few American recordings issued by Polish jazz great Krzysztof Komeda! The core of the album is an especially haunting theme – one hummed as a lullaby by Mia Farrow on the title, and which is repeated often throughout – a dreamy little number that had a surprising life long beyond the film and this album, in a number of different versions on the market. We still like the original best – and especially appreciate Komeda's blend of soft jazz, odd electronics, and some darker atonal passages – all of which combine here to make the record a masterpiece throughout – on a level that easily matches the best from Morricone at the time! Titles include "Panic", "What Have You Done To Its Eyes", "Dream", "Expectancy", "Lullaby", "The Coven", and "Main Title". This expanded version is incredible – with 24 more bonus tracks (!!!!!), including the full film score on top of the original album – with lots of cool "ritual" tracks – and the source music, and even some tracks from the 45 of the main theme! Great sound, amazing booklet – and the best-ever CD reissue! (Limited to 3000 copies.) © 1996-2013, Dusty Groove, Inc. |
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text:
The Decline of Western Civilazation rolled up in a tiny subsilver forum bundle, yet suprisingly satisfying.
See "Gat City" On August 25th, 2002, on the General Any Topic forum, otherwise known as the Gat of the Star Wars Galaxies forums, a city was created for Gaters, by Gaters.
Gat images | |||
1. | gat | ||
Old slang, meanging gun. Came from shortening Gattling gun to just gat. Was used during the prohibition era to name any gun, but specifically the thompson submachine gun, aka The Tommy Gun. Just get that gat out of my face, and everything will be jake.
or Sorry guys, but no rapper or gangsta came up with the word Gat. Or chopper, for that matter. Unless you're talking about the prohibition era bootleggers type of gangster, that is. |
2. | gat | ||
A firearm, usually a pistol or open-bolt submachinegun, used for busting "caps" into someone/something's
"punk ass." "That hater talked mad trash about me, so I pulled out my gat and busted a few hollow tips up in his fat ass"
3. | Gat | ||
etymology: perhaps from 'gat' in "gatling gun," akin to Richard J. Gatling, American inventor.
A firearm. I had to shut up: the dealers had gats, my boys didn't.
4. | Gat | ||
Slang for a gun, but not that you wiggas care, it actually comes from the prohibition era, usually referencing the Thompson (Tommy) gun. Its doesnt come from rap or California. Sorry boyz. How you importing the whiskey from canada? With balls of steel and some boys with gats.
5. | gat | ||
Slang for a Fire arm. Originally developed by mafiosi in the Prohibition era to refer to their thompson submachine guns, but is now adopted to refer to any gun, and is usually used in the urban areas and in the rap community Early 1900's - It's the heat, grab me the gat.
Today - Yo ima take ma gat and cap a sucka... |
6. | gat | ||
Slang for gun. Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, it is not a term created by modern rap stars, but has been in use since the prohibition era. "scene kids ghetto stars come on grab your gats"
"that night at 82 the parking lot was stacked. grabbed my gat and got my hand stamped by matt." THANK YOU HOLLYWOOD UNDEAD.<3 |
Generic slang for gun. If that thing moves again, I'm gettin' my gat.


text:
Michigan Opera Theatre searching for new executive director
DETROIT — Michigan Opera Theatre (MOT) announced today that it has begun the process of searching for a successor to founding General Director, Dr. David DiChiera, and that DiChiera will remain in his position for at least another year before transitioning to the position of full-time Artistic Director.
In the same announcement, DiChiera acknowledged that he has begun a program of radiation treatment for prostate cancer, for which his prognosis is deemed "excellent."
"David is our founder and has been the visionary leader for everything that has happened at the Opera House for over 40 years," said R.J. "Rick" Williams, MOT Chairman. "We have always known the day would come when David would want to scale back his responsibilities, and that when it does we would split David's role into two positions, that of an Executive Director and an Artistic Director. It has always been too much for one person, but David's a superman kind of guy and he always wanted to do it all."
Williams said that he and the board have had initial discussions on the search and that he is in the process of organizing a search committee. "David is a beloved figure in our community and we don't take the job of replacing him — or even half of him — lightly. This has been in our thinking for quite a while," Williams said, "but we didn't want to do anything until we had our financial house in order. We were able to accomplish that with our successful debt restructuring this summer."
An artistic and civic visionary, David DiChiera is known for his unrelenting determination and willingness to take risks. In 1971, he founded Michigan Opera Theatre. Two years later, he spearheaded the establishment of the Music Hall Center for the Performing Arts, for which he was named Founding Artistic Director. Saving Music Hall from becoming a parking lot is widely considered the first step in building an entertainment district in the city of Detroit.
DiChiera's dream for a world-class opera house for the opera company became a reality in 1996, after a Herculean fundraising campaign and the restoration of the abandoned Grand Circus Theater, now named the Detroit Opera House. The Detroit Opera House not only serves as the home to the opera company, but also presents the world's great dance companies, touring Broadway presentations and myriad special events. Its opening served as the catalyst for the further revitalization of Detroit's sports and entertainment district.
Under David DiChiera's leadership, MOT has become one of the country's leading regional opera companies, earning an international reputation as a producer of rarely performed operas and a great supporter of minority artists, and has served as a launching pad for many of today's great opera stars. In addition to his role as general director, DiChiera is also an accomplished musician and composer, having composed several works, including his acclaimed opera Cyrano.
"MOT has been my life for nearly half a century," DiChiera said, "but at my heart, I'm an artist and the art of opera is what I love most. I'm excited by the prospect of being able to focus more of my time on the artistic side of the company while at the same time being able to provide support and guidance to our new Executive Director. I look forward to working with Rick and the board to find the best fit for the Opera House and for Detroit. There are a lot of good and talented people out there. Our goal is to find the very best — someone who will help sustain and enhance MOT's role as one of Detroit's premier cultural institutions."
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Now that spring has returned, it is officially gardening season and Paul Michael Company is currently bursting with a variety of ceramic pottery that is perfect for container gardening. Container gardens are a wonderful way to add some color to your front porch or your patio, but they can also create beautiful variety in your garden or landscape. Celebrity... [Read more...]
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The right rug can define a whole room. Rugs are great ways to differentiate different areas within a room or to define a space beneath furniture. They add comfort and warmth to wood and tile floors and create extra visual interest to carpeted floors. A rug can showcase your personality and inform a color scheme. There are seemingly countless styles... [Read more...]
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