text:
Forget everything you thought you knew about how to motivate peopleat work, at school, at home. It's wrong. As Daniel H. Pink (author of To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Motivating Others) explains in his paradigm-shattering book Drive, the secret to high performance and satisfaction in today's world is the deeply human need to direct our own lives, to learn and create new things, and to do better by ourselves and our world.
Drawing on four decades of scientific research on human motivation, Pink exposes the mismatch between what science knows and what business doesand how that affects every aspect of our lives. He demonstrates that while the old-fashioned carrot-and-stick approach worked successfully in the 20th century, it's precisely the wrong way to motivate people for today's challenges. In Drive, he reveals the three elements of true motivation:
* Autonomythe desire to direct our own lives
* Masterythe urge to get better and better at something that matters
* Purposethe yearning to do what we do in the service of something larger than ourselves
Along the way, he takes us to companies that are enlisting new approaches to motivation and introduces us to the scientists and entrepreneurs who are pointing a bold way forward.
Drive is bursting with big ideasthe rare book that will change how you think and transform how you live.
"synopsis" may belong to another edition of this title.
Daniel H. Pink is the author of five books, including To Sell Is Human and the long-running New York Times bestsellers A Whole New Mind and Drive. His books have been translated into thirty-three languages and have sold more than a million copies in the United States alone. Pink lives with his family in Washington, D.C.Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.:
The Puzzling Puzzles of Harry Harlow and Edward Deci
In the middle of the last century, two young scientists conducted experiments that should have changed the world— but did not. Harry F. Harlow was a professor of psychology at the University of Wisconsin who, in the 1940s, established one of the world's first laboratories for studying primate behavior. One day in 1949, Harlow and two colleagues gathered eight rhesus monkeys for a two- week experiment on learning. The researchers devised a simple mechanical puzzle like the one pictured on the next page. Solving it required three steps: pull out the vertical pin, undo the hook, and lift the hinged cover. Pretty easy for you and me, far more challenging for a thirteen- pound lab monkey.
Harlow's puzzle in the starting (left) and solved (right) positions.
The experimenters placed the puzzles in the monkeys' cages to observe how they reacted— and to prepare them for tests of their problem- solving prowess at the end of the two weeks. But almost immediately, something strange happened. Unbidden by any outside urging and unprompted by the experimenters, the monkeys began playing with the puzzles with focus, determination, and what looked like enjoyment. And in short order, they began figuring out how the contraptions worked. By the time Harlow tested the monkeys on days 13 and 14 of the experiment, the primates had become quite adept. They solved the puzzles frequently and quickly; two- thirds of the time they cracked the code in less than sixty seconds.
Now, this was a bit odd. Nobody had taught the monkeys how to remove the pin, slide the hook, and open the cover. Nobody had rewarded them with food, affection, or even quiet applause when they succeeded. And that ran counter to the accepted notions of how primates— including the bigger- brained, less hairy primates known as human beings— behaved.
Scientists then knew that two main drives powered behavior. The first was the biological drive. Humans and other animals ate to sate their hunger, drank to quench their thirst, and copulated to satisfy their carnal urges. But that wasn't happening here. "Solution did not lead to food, water, or sex gratification," Harlow reported.1 But the only other known drive also failed to explain the monkeys' peculiar behavior. If biological motivations came from within, this second drive came from without— the rewards and punishments the environment delivered for behaving in certain ways. This was certainly true for humans, who responded exquisitely to such external forces. If you promised to raise our pay, we'd work harder. If you held out the prospect of getting an A on the test, we'd study longer. If you threatened to dock us for showing up late or for incorrectly completing a form, we'd arrive on time and tick every box. But that didn't account for the monkeys' actions either. As Harlow wrote, and you can almost hear him scratching his head, "The behavior obtained in this investigation poses some interesting questions for motivation theory, since significant learning was attained and efficient performance maintained without resort to special or extrinsic incentives." What else could it be?
To answer the question, Harlow offered a novel theory— what amounted to a third drive: "The performance of the task," he said, "provided intrinsic reward." The monkeys solved the puzzles simply because they found it gratifying to solve puzzles. They enjoyed it. The joy of the task was its own reward.
If this notion was radical, what happened next only deepened the confusion and controversy. Perhaps this newly discovered drive— Harlow eventually called it "intrinsic motivation"— was real. But surely it was subordinate to the other two drives. If the monkeys were rewarded— with raisins!— for solving the puzzles, they'd no doubt perform even better. Yet when Harlow tested that approach, the monkeys actually made more errors and solved the puzzles less frequently. "Introduction of food in the present experiment," Harlow wrote, "served to disrupt performance, a phenomenon not reported in the literature."
Now, this was really odd. In scientific terms, it was akin to rolling a steel ball down an inclined plane to measure its velocity— only to watch the ball fl oat into the air instead. It suggested that our understanding of the gravitational pulls on our behavior was inadequate— that what we thought were fixed laws had plenty of loopholes. Harlow emphasized the "strength and persistence" of the monkeys' drive to complete the puzzles. Then he noted: It would appear that this drive . . . may be as basic and strong as the [other] drives. Furthermore, there is some reason to believe that [it] can be as efficient in facilitating learning.2
At the time, however, the prevailing two drives held a tight grip on scientific thinking. So Harlow sounded the alarm. He urged scientists to "close down large sections of our theoretical junkyard" and offer fresher, more accurate accounts of human behavior.3 He warned that our explanation of why we did what we did was incomplete. He said that to truly understand the human condition, we had to take account of this third drive.
Then he pretty much dropped the whole idea. Rather than battle the establishment and begin offering a more complete view of motivation, Harlow abandoned this contentious line of research and later became famous for studies on the science of affection.4 His notion of this third drive bounced around the psychological literature, but it remained on the periphery— of behavioral science and of our understanding of ourselves. It would be two decades before another scientist picked up the thread that Harlow had so provocatively left on that Wisconsin laboratory table. In the summer of 1969, Edward Deci was a Carnegie Mellon University psychology graduate student in search of a dissertation topic. Deci, who had already earned an MBA from Wharton, was intrigued by motivation but suspected that scholars and businesspeople had misunderstood it. So, tearing a page from the Harlow playbook, he set out to study the topic with the help of a puzzle.
Deci chose the Soma puzzle cube, a then popular Parker Brothers offering that, thanks to YouTube, retains something of a cult following today. The puzzle, shown below, consists of seven plastic pieces— six comprising four one- inch cubes, one comprising three one- inch cubes. Players can assemble the seven pieces into a few million possible combinations— from abstract shapes to recognizable objects.
The seven pieces of the Soma puzzle unassembled (left) and then fashioned into one of several million possible configurations
For the study, Deci divided participants, male and female university students, into an experimental group (what I'll call Group A) and a control group (what I'll call Group B). Each participated in three one- hour sessions held on consecutive days.
Here's how the sessions worked: Each participant entered a room and sat at a table on top of which were the seven Soma puzzle pieces, drawings of three puzzle configurations, and copies of Time, The New Yorker, and Playboy. (Hey, it was 1969.) Deci sat on the opposite end of the table to explain the instructions and to time performance with a stopwatch.
In the first session, members of both groups had to assemble the Soma pieces to replicate the configurations before them. In the second session, they did the same thing with different drawings— only this time Deci told Group A that they'd be paid $1 (the equivalent of nearly $6 today) for every configuration they successfully reproduced. Group B, meanwhile, got new drawings but no pay. Finally, in the third session, both groups received new drawings and had to reproduce them for no compensation, just as in session one. (See the table below.)
The twist came midway through each session. After a participant had assembled the Soma puzzle pieces to match two of the three drawings, Deci halted the proceedings. He said that he was going to give them a fourth drawing—but to choose the right one, he needed to feed their completion times into a computer. And— this being the late 1960s, when room- straddling mainframes were the norm and desktop PCs were still a decade away— that meant he had to leave for a little while.
On the way out, he said, "I shall be gone only a few minutes, you may do whatever you like while I'm gone." But Deci wasn't really plugging numbers into an ancient teletype. Instead, he walked to an adjoining room connected to the experiment room by a one- way window. Then, for exactly eight minutes, he watched what people did when left alone. Did they continue fiddling with the puzzle, perhaps attempting to reproduce the third drawing? Or did they do something else— page through the magazines, check out the centerfold, stare into space, catch a quick nap?
In the first session, not surprisingly, there wasn't much difference between what the Group A and Group B participants did during that secretly watched eight- minute free- choice period. Both continued playing with the puzzle, on average, for between three and a half and four minutes, suggesting they found it at least somewhat interesting.
On the second day, during which Group A participants were paid for each successful configuration and Group B participants were not, the unpaid group behaved mostly as they had during the first free- choice period. But the paid group suddenly got really interested in Soma puzzles. On average, the people in Group A spent more than five minutes messing with the puzzle, perhaps getting a head start on that third challenge or gearing up for the chance to earn some beer money when Deci returned. This makes intuitive sense, right? It's consistent with what we believe about motivation: Reward me and I'll work harder. Yet what happened on the third day confirmed Deci's own suspicions about the peculiar workings of motivation— and gently called into question a guiding premise of modern life. This time, Deci told the participants in Group A that there was only enough money to pay them for one day and that this third session would therefore be unpaid. Then things unfolded just as before— two puzzles, followed by Deci's interruption.
During the ensuing eight- minute free- choice period, the subjects in the never- been- paid Group B actually played with the puzzle for a little longer than they had in previous sessions. Maybe they were becoming ever more engaged; maybe it was just a statistical quirk. But the subjects in Group A, who previously had been paid, responded differently. They now spent significantly less time playing with the puzzle— not only about two minutes less than during their paid session, but about a full minute less than in the first session when they initially encountered, and obviously enjoyed, the puzzles.
In an echo of what Harlow discovered two decades earlier, Deci revealed that human motivation seemed to operate by laws that ran counter to what most scientists and citizens believed. From the office to the playing field, we knew what got people going. Rewards— especially cold, hard cash— intensified interest and enhanced performance. What Deci found, and then confirmed in two additional studies he conducted shortly thereafter, was almost the opposite. "When money is used as an external reward for some activity, the subjects lose intrinsic interest for the activity," he wrote.5 Rewards can deliver a short- term boost— just as a jolt of caffeine can keep you cranking for a few more hours. But the effect wears off— and, worse, can reduce a person's longer- term motivation to continue the project.
Human beings, Deci said, have an "inherent tendency to seek out novelty and challenges, to extend and exercise their capacities, to explore, and to learn." But this third drive was more fragile than the other two; it needed the right environment to survive. "One who is interested in developing and enhancing intrinsic motivation in children, employees, students, etc., should not concentrate on external- control systems such as monetary rewards," he wrote in a follow- up paper.6 Thus began what for Deci became a lifelong quest to rethink why we do what we do— a pursuit that sometimes put him at odds with fellow psychologists, got him fired from a business school, and challenged the operating assumptions of organizations everywhere.
"It was controversial," Deci told me one spring morning forty years after the Soma experiments. "Nobody was expecting rewards would have a negative effect."
This is a book about motivation. I will show that much of what we believe about the subject just isn't so— and that the insights that Harlow and Deci began uncovering a few decades ago come much closer to the truth. The problem is that most businesses haven't caught up to this new understanding of what motivates us. Too many organizations— not just companies, but governments and nonprofits as well— still operate from assumptions about human potential and individual performance that are outdated, unexamined, and rooted more in folklore than in science. They continue to pursue practices such as short- term incentive plans and pay- for- performance schemes in the face of mounting evidence that such measures usually don't work and often do harm. Worse, these practices have infiltrated our schools, where we ply our future workforce with iPods, cash, and pizza coupons to "incentivize" them to learn. Something has gone wrong.
The good news is that the solution stands before us— in the work of a band of behavioral scientists who have carried on the pioneering efforts of Harlow and Deci and whose quiet work over the last half- century offers us a more dynamic view of human motivation. For too long, there's been a mismatch between what science knows and what business does. The goal of this book is to repair that breach.
Drive has three parts. Part One will look at the fl aws in our reward- and- punishment system and propose a new way to think about motivation. Chapter 1 will examine how the prevailing view of motivation is becoming incompatible with many aspects of contemporary business and life. Chapter 2 will reveal the seven reasons why carrot- and- stick extrinsic motivators often produce the opposite of what they set out to achieve. (Following that is a short addendum, Chapter 2a, that shows the special circumstances when carrots and sticks actually can be effective.) Chapter 3 will introduce what I call "Type I" behavior, a way of thinking and an approach to business grounded in the real science of human motivation and powered by our third drive— our innate need to direct our own lives, to learn and create new things, and to do better by ourselves and our world.
Part Two will examine the three elements of Type I behavior and show how individuals and organizations are using them to improve performance and deepen satisfaction. Chapter 4 will explore autonomy, our desire to be self- directed. Chapter 5 will look at mastery, our urge to get better and better at what we do. Chapter 6 will explore purpose, our yearning to be part of something larger than ourselves.
Part Three, the Type I Toolkit, is a comprehensive set of resources to help you create settings in which Type I behavior can fl ourish. Here you'll find everything from dozens of exercises to awaken motivation in yourself and others, to discussion questions for your book club, to a supershort summary of Drive that will help you fake your way through a cocktail party. And while this book is mostly about business, in this section I'll offer some thoughts about how to apply these concepts to education and to our lives outside of work...
"About this title" may belong to another edition of this title.
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Book Description Riverhead Books, 2009. Book Condition: New. Brand New, Unread Copy in Perfect Condition. A+ Customer Service! Summary: "Pink's ideas deserve a wide hearing. Corporate boards, in fact, could do well by kicking out their pay consultants for an hour and reading Pink's conclusions instead." -Forbes "Pink's deft traversal of research at the intersection of psychology and economics make this a worthwhile read-no sticks necessary." -SEED "[Pink] continues his engaging exploration of how we work." -Inc. Magazine "Pink's a gifted writer who turns even the heaviest scientific study into something digestible-and often amusing-without losing his intellectual punch." -New York Post "A worthwhile read. It reminds us that those of us on the right side of the brain are driven furthest and fastest in pursuit of what we love." -Minneapolis Star Tribune "Pink's analysis--and new model--of motivation offers tremendous insight into our deepest nature." -Publishers Weekly "Important reading.an integral addition to a growing body of literature that argues for a radical shift in how businesses operate." -Kirkus "Driveis the rare book that will get you to think and inspire you to act. Pink makes a strong, science-based case for rethinking motivation--and then provides the tools you need to transform your life." -Dr. Mehmet Oz, co-author of YOU: The Owners Manual. Bookseller Inventory # ABE_book_new_1594488843
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Book Description Penguin Putnam Inc, United States, 2011. Microfilm. Book Condition: New. 231 x 155 mm. Language: English . Brand New Book. Forget everything you thought you knew about how to motivate people at work, at school, at home. It s wrong. As Daniel H. Pink (author of To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Motivating Others ) explains in his paradigm-shattering book Drive, the secret to high performance and satisfaction in today s world is the deeply human need to direct our own lives, to learn and create new things, and to do better by ourselves and our world. Drawing on four decades of scientific research on human motivation, Pink exposes the mismatch between what science knows and what business does and how that affects every aspect of our lives. He demonstrates that while the old-fashioned carrot-and-stick approach worked successfully in the 20th century, it s precisely the wrong way to motivate people for today s challenges. In Drive, he reveals the three elements of true motivation: *Autonomy the desire to direct our own lives *Mastery the urge to get better and better at something that matters *Purpose the yearning to do what we do in the service of something larger than ourselves Along the way, he takes us to companies that are enlisting new approaches to motivation and introduces us to the scientists and entrepreneurs who are pointing a bold way forward. Drive is bursting with big ideas the rare book that will change how you think and transform how you live. Bookseller Inventory # AAS9781594488849
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Interesting way to brew, JRS22, I must try that!
Fortunately, I did get quite good results using Chip's basic instructions. So, here is my attempt at a tea review:
I brewed all 4 teas in a preheated Tokoname teapot with round metal strainer. I used on average 3.2 g of leaves and 100 mL of water, making it approx. 1 g per ounce. This way I got 3 sessions out of each packet. I brewed 2 sessions, I'm still saving one. I don't have much experience brewing the Japanese greens, so I weighed the tea and checked the water temperature with a thermometer.
All 4 teas smell wonderful in the bag. I was very surprised by the floral/fruity notes, it reminded me of peaches. All the senchas I tried before were only grassy/vegetable, but they were not directly from Japan...
Number 1:
First brew: 160 F, 60 sec. Fantastic taste, vegetal, grassy, buttery, a bit floral and peachy, a bit of chestnuts, umami, a hint of sweetness... It's not too strong, it's very smooth to drink, great balance of flavors/tastes. This was the first sample that I tried and it was much better than expected.
Second brew: 165 F, 25 sec. A bit darker and more cloudy than before. More vegetables and less floral/chestnuts, still nicely buttery, with a bit of bitterness/astringency.
Third brew: 170 F, 60 sec. Still nice, smooth taste, vegetal, chestnuts, umami, grassy, ...
Number 2:
First brew: 160 F, 60 sec. Very strong vegetal/eggwhite taste, no sweetness, a bit buttery, some umami. For me this was almost unpleasant to drink, the taste was too bold and too vegetal/green, with only a hint of something floral in the aftertaste.
Second brew: 160 - 165 F, 25 sec. Less intensive taste than before, nicer to drink, still very vegetal, grassy, buttery taste, a bit floral and sweet, but also a bit bitter.
Third brew: 170 F, 60 sec. Mellow, buttery/floral/vegetal taste, very nice, gets a bit bitter/astringent at the end of the cup, I enjoyed it.

subset: commoncrawl


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The Regional Payson Area Project ... for a Fire Wise Rim Country (RPAP) will staff free brush drop-off points at the following locations:
- Saturday, July 22: The Blattner Pit will be open from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. The Blattner Pit is located at Milepost 259.7 on Highway 260, east of Payson.
- Sunday, July 23: The Pine Pit will be open from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. The Pine Pit is located on Control Road, .7 of a mile east of Highway 87, south of Pine.
All RPAP free drop-off locations are for brush, leaves, pine needles, trimmings and other vegetative materials only. Wood from trees killed by bark beetles will be accepted and will be burned. No household garbage, construction debris, or other items will be accepted.
RPAP brush pits are intended for the use of private citizens who are working to clear their properties for wildfire risk reduction and to create defensible space around their homes. They are not intended for commercial use, and use by commercial haulers is prohibited.


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Photo File New York Giants Eli Manning UniFrame
Product Information:
Pop some game-winning style into any room with the Photo File® Eli Manning UniFrame. This framed photograph features an action shot of Giants' quarterback Eli Manning with an enlarged image of his name and number in the background. A protective glass covering guards the photo from dirt, dust and damage, and the fully finished backing is ready to hang as soon as it arrives.
- Photo File® Eli Manning framed photograph
- Enlarged image of player's name and number in the background
- Fully finished backing ready for hanging
- Protective glass covering
- Dimensions: 20" x 20"
- Officially licensed NFL product
- Model: OF130
- Photo File
Country of Origin: United StatesWeb ID: 21312376


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Located around 30km from Puno across Lake Tititcaca, the genuine islands of Taquile and Amantani offer a glimpse into a traditional Andean way of life that almost looks as though it was brought to a half over a century ago. Untouched by the modernity of the mainland, the local inhabitants of these islands still wear traditional clothing and maintain the laws, customs and traditions of old - their language is predominantly Quechua and both islands have maintained some degree of cultural isolation with a community-controlled model of tourism providing home stays, local guides and cultural activities. Although it is possible to visit the islands on a day trip from Puno, a home stay with a local family is the best way to experience the islands with meals cooked by the woman of the house and the night spent in their home.
Inhabited for over ten thousand years by the Pukara and Tiahuanaco cultures, as well as the Incas and Spanish, the island of Taquile is now owned by the local descendants of the original Indians. Famed for making the highest-quality handicrafts in Peru, the people of Taquile, known as Taquileños, are mostly weavers and knitters with weaving and yarning exclusively a job for the women and knitting for the men.
Amantani is the least visited of the two islands and like Taquile is a basket-weavers' island where the women dress in distinctly woven, colourful clothes. Two hills on the island offer wonderful views of the island and across Lake Titicaca with the ancient Temple of Pachamama the perfect place to enjoy sun set. Each night on Amantani a traditional dance is held where tourists can dress in local clothing and dance with the islanders.
To get you started with planning your holiday to Islas Taquile and Amantani, we have showcased below some popular itineraries requested by our clients which we hope will inspire your visit to South America


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As I smelt my brain burning, I thought this could be the perfect opporchancity to potentially kick off my blog mojo again. So, while I was pounding the treadmill at gym, I came up with a theme idea for throughout the challenge.
Most of you regular Plonkers know that A Daft Scots Lass has both a wee sprinkle of sweet and smidgeon of sour. Much to everyone's surprise, I do have a deep philosophical side as well as my wickedly twisted sense of humour. I thought I'd fuse the two together in this blog challenge (as I do on a daily basis on my blg) and bring you a bit of naughty and a bit of nice in each post.
Here is today's sweet motto - Attitude
"You're uglier than a bag full of Arseholes"
Remember this funny moment from the film "Meet the Fokkers:?


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David Akers (1975/88): This issue is listed in Judd's pattern book (J-1775) but it is not truly a pattern in the sense that the 1907 Wire Edge is. The Rolled Edge was actually struck in rather large quantities for circulation but they were melted before ever being released to the public. The surviving examples are mostly high quality and were either saved as assay pieces or obtained directly from the Mint prior to the decision to melt the issue. The strike on the typical Rolled Edge is rather weak, particularly at Miss Liberty's ear and on the eagle's wing and trailing leg and claw. Lustre is almost always excellent, if not radiant, and the color is generally great, usually greenish gold, orange and rose. The fields always have numerous random die scratches throughout, and the surfaces are rather satiny but with plenty of mint frost as well.
This issue is unusual among Indian Head eagles in that it is more often seen in MS-63, MS-64 or MS-65 condition than in the lowest Mint State grades. Overall, probably 40 to 45 pieces exist and a small number of them are superb, in fact, close to perfection. The Wilkinson-Kruthoffer specimen was extraordinary and at least four or five others are also distinctly better than MS-65.
Simpson Collection
Kutasi Collection - Heritage 1/2007:3160, $402,500 - Madison Collection - Heritage 1/2008:3271, $460,000 - Bentley Shores Collection - Stack's/Bowers 8/2013:4524, $470,000
Stack's 1/2006:3221, $253,000 - Bentley Shores Collection - Stack's/Bowers 8/2013:4525, $329,000


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So often after telling somebody where we live, we get: "Wow, you are living the dream life." Or, "You are so lucky." And, depending on the time of year, I say, "Yep, I know," or I politely nod, hoping they will move on quickly. I apologize if you have said something like this to me and I seemed aloof; I probably didn't feel that way about you, just people I don't know.
It's tough, though. We knew when we made our decision to live here that we would be going against the grain: of "normal" family life, of parental expectations, of career considerations, of the 21st century generally. We were also taking on three huge new responsibilities all at the same time: new business, new home, and new kid on the way. Sometimes I feel like we have always lived like this, even though it has only been three and a half years. We have always lived like this as the four-person family we currently are, so imagining anything that came before now seems like a hazy memory.
This place is so loaded. First of all, there is history dripping off of every rusty barb of old wire, old door knob, worn-out apple tree and falling-down fence post. Families, long before my family, turned this place into the spectacular, intimate marvel that it is. And now we live here, on borrowed land. I feel like I could never do it justice, because this is not mine, and they (the homesteaders) didn't know me. I imagine they expected their own descendants to be living on their carefully-tended land a century after they laid claim to it. But instead, an unrelated caretaker picked by committee is now creating her own memories on this hardscrabble parcel that already has so much memory stored up in it. My little blip of time spent here doesn't amount to anything in homestead years. But the impact the homestead has had on my life will be forever.
Also, we know we won't live here forever, so putting down roots any deeper feels dangerous. I've fallen deep, and the break-up, when it happens, is going to be hard. I try to keep a measured distance, appreciate the here and now, and try not to hang on too tightly. Axel was born here: How much deeper an attachment could I have? I won't even know until we leave. And then I fear I will pine away for my lost love, with overly romanticized memories of the good-old-days. See what I mean? Loaded.
Also, there is the pressure of being in the public eye. Expectations of every history buff, environmental studies person, non-profit group, parks and rec worker, random visitor, head honcho of said non-profit, all placed on one shoulder or another as we shuffle along trying to keep up with the gardening, chickens, kids, gates, fences, foxes, sheep, cooking, cleaning, grant writing, other jobs, water, life.
The fear of going feral, or rather of giving the appearance that we've gone feral without realizing it, is always on my mind as well. Do other families bathe as infrequently as we do? Are their cars as dirty? Do they have this many spiders crawling around their ceiling? Do we seem strange now that we have accepted our unconventional life as normal for us? Do we smell bad? Do I look older? Does this prairie dress make my butt look big?
The hardest part about being the caretaker on this 1890s homestead for me is that I can't fully experience it the way I would like to: uninterruptedly. Homesteading is not my job; I have to go into town for that, several days a week. So, I'm a part-time homesteader with so many plans and ideas and wishes and dreams, feeling like there isn't enough time to see them through. So it goes.
My dream life is rich, if not completely as I want it. I bend and twist my thoughts around this from every angle, and what I come to realize is that I wouldn't have it any other way.


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Built on the foot of Vermio and crossed by Tripotamo river, Veria was the second most important city during the years of development of ancient Macedonians. It was the second most important city after Aeges, while it continued to be a flourishing and strong city even during the Byzantine period (it was the third most important city of the Empire after Constantinople and Thessaloniki). Because of the many Byzantine monuments (nowadays more than 50 Byzantine and post Byzantine churches are preserved) it was also called "Mikri Ierousalim" ("Small Jerusalem"). Today it is a modern city, which still preserves its historic neighbourhoods and many remarkable monuments. Veria is located 510km BW of Athens and 68km W of Thessalonoki.
Website of the Municipality of Veria: www.veria.gr
Visitgreece.gr is the official tourism web site for Greece, run by the Greek National Tourism Organisation, where you'll find information on the main tourist destinations, such as cities, beaches, as well as activities, events and much more!
All content included on this site consists intellectual property of GNTO and you are not allowed to reproduce the whole or part of this work in any way without the written permission of GNTO.
For information please contact: firstname.lastname@example.com All Rights Reserved. GNTO © 2014.


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by Cameron Buettel and Jeremiah Johnson
In the final chapter of Strange Fire, titled "An Open Letter to My Continuationist Friends," John MacArthur outlines several dangerous ramifications of the continuationist position. The first of those dangers is that "the continuationist position gives an illusion of legitimacy to the broader Charismatic Movement" (p. 234).
We recently saw why that warning was fitting when Dr. Michael Brown spent a week as a guest on Benny Hinn's daily television program, This Is Your Day. Brown is a charismatic and is widely regarded as a first-rate apologist and Old Testament scholar. Hinn, of course, is a world-renowned charlatan who has conned untold millions of dollars from followers through his prosperity preaching and faith-healing ministry.
Brown has been one of the most vocal critics of the Strange Fire book and conference. His chief complaint is that John MacArthur and the other speakers at Strange Fire last October "painted with too broad a brush," not always drawing a clear line of demarcation between the rank charismatic charlatans on TBN and more cautious charismatics like him. Now, just a few short weeks later, it seems incongruous that Brown would openly and unashamedly align himself with a noisome prosperity preacher and overtly avaricious swindler such as Hinn. But there you have it.
The topic of discussion on Hinn's programs was how to find Christ in the Old Testament. Hinn exhibited all the decorum of a small child at a magic show as Brown worked book by book through the Old Testament, giving examples of appearances of Christ along with several instances of Messianic foreshadowing and typology. While Brown's scholarship and recall were impressive, any lasting value was robbed by Hinn's incessant interruptions. Hinn repeatedly reduced what could have been an enlightening, encouraging discussion of the gospel to a sideshow of theological novelties. In short, it was a fiasco.
Hinn's television program reportedly has as many as twenty million viewers per day. Whether any of them came away from the Michael Brown episodes with any legitimate spiritual fruit is a mystery. What is certain is that a significant portion of that viewing audience sees no difference between Brown and Hinn. In fact, Brown's obvious expertise only lent a false credibility to Hinn and the vaguely orthodox statements he made throughout the week. Brown's guest appearances will also make it significantly harder for him to confront Hinn's obvious abuses and heresies.
Rather than accepting Hinn's flattery and defending his decision to share the stage with a notorious heretic, Brown ought to be using his influential position within the charismatic movement—including his nationally syndicated daily radio program—to call out false teachers like Benny Hinn.
But confronting theological error is scarce in Charismatic circles. While many within the movement readily acknowledge the presence of false prophecies, phony apostolic gifts, and heretical theology, there are very few who actually step up to confront those obvious errors. That passive stance contradicts repeated instructions in Scripture for pastors and church leaders to be on the lookout, ready to protect God's sheep from spiritual wolves (Matthew 7:15-20; Acts 20:29-31; Romans 16:17-18; Titus 1:9).
Brown himself has dismissed the need for such confrontation, writing the following in one of his earliest criticisms of Strange Fire:
If a pastor is shepherding his flock and feeding them God's Word and his people are not guilty of these abuses or watching these TV preachers, why is it his responsibility to address these errors?
If a pastor is shepherding his flock and feeding them God's Word and his people are not guilty of these abuses or watching these TV preachers, why is it his responsibility to address these errors?
Does Brown realize that his appearance on Benny Hinn's show served as an overt encouragement to "his people" to tune in to one of the worst "TV preachers" of all time?
Sadly, Brown is not alone in his sentiments. Plenty of charismatics are incredulous at the thought that they have a responsibility to police their movement. Charismatic blogger Adrian Warnock tweeted his reaction during the Strange Fire conference: "If we researched & criticised all the crooks, cons, and cookies in the Charismatic Movement we'd have no time for anything else."
Indeed. That's the very point we are making. What Warnock and others like him fail to realize is that their argument is self-refuting and self-perpetuating. The overabundance of "crooks, cons, and cookies" in the charismatic movement is a direct result of the epic failure of charismatic leaders to warn about false teachers—blended with a truckload of doctrines, practices, and superstitions that undermine the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. Sadly, by refusing to protect the sheep, Warnock is accommodating the wolves—making the charismatic movement an even more noxious breeding ground for error and confusion.
In fact, when it comes to outlandish faith healers and prophets, Warnock—like many leading charismatics—openly advocates what he calls the "Gamaliel approach." Gamaliel was an unbelieving Pharisee who counseled his underlings to stop harassing the apostles of the early church and let time determine the validity of their ministry (Acts 5:33-39). Essentially, Warnock prefers the pharisaical response to apostolic teachers over the apostolic response to false teachers. It's a wait-and-see attitude that allows charismatics to overlook the worst examples of unbiblical doctrine and practice in their movement without ever openly disavowing them.
That's not what a true shepherd does.
On that point God's Word is inescapably clear: The responsibility of the shepherd is to identify the wolves and protect the sheep. Embracing and executing that responsibility in wisdom, grace, and conviction is one of the distinguishing marks of a true shepherd. It indicates the difference between those who truly love the flock, and those who are mere hirelings (cf. Matthew 10:12-13).
Over the next several days, we're going to examine some of the key passages in Scripture that describe the pastor's protective role, and revisit some of John MacArthur's landmark teaching on this vital aspect of spiritual leadership and pastoral ministry.
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"If a pastor is shepherding his flock and feeding them God's Word and his people are not guilty of these abuses or watching these TV preachers, why is it his responsibility to address these errors?"
This confirms once again that a lack of discernment is a characteristic of the Charismatic Movement. Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Sarah Young, and all the rest of the so-called "fringe" or "extreme" side of charismatics, are not supported merely by the people within their own churches. No, they are supported by millions--millions!--of people. They don't just sell their books to their congregations; they sell them by the millions to people from every denomination.
Unlike the days of the NT, geography is no longer a wall that limits influence. Any Christian with a TV or Internet connection (which is to say virtually every Christian) can be influenced. And by virtue of book sales, TV ratings, Facebook and Twitter followers, and more, we see that tens of millions are being influenced.
Therefore, a shepherd cannot say, "Our church doesn't teach these things, so why should I address these errors?" Every shepherd needs to know his congregation well, visit their homes, see what books they have on their coffee table, get to know the spiritual influences coming into the home; and then he can discern how strongly to address these errors. It will be a rare church where some, if not many, of the people are not taking in what these false teachers are producing.
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". . . prefers the pharisaical response to apostolic teachers over the apostolic response to false teachers."
Good line. Great point. I hope readers don't miss the significance of that distinction.
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"[...] prefers the pharisaical response to apostolic teachers over the apostolic response to false teachers. It's a wait-and-see attitude that allows charismatics to overlook the worst examples of unbiblical doctrine and practice in their movement without ever openly disavowing them."
Exactly. And they never seem to know when the wait should be over as well.
I completely agree with Gabe, pastors MUST be aware of what goes on with their members, what are they reading, who are they following as a model.
Right after I got saved I tried to find a church close to us. I found one that seemed ok, not pentecostal, and one of the bible study classes was using MacArthur's material to teach 1&2 Peter. Every week when the women met we shared some time together and then each would go to their own classes. There were people from other churches coming to the studies. It was after I started asking where these women were coming from that I started wondering why they would feel so comfortable in this specific church. There were women from United churches, Catholic churches, even home churches (incidentally, one of them was even allowed to teach a class there). One of these women was regularly bringing Joyce Meyers' magazine to distribute to other members; every single copy that I could get my hands on ended up in the garbage.
The pastor was not concerned for a minute; I was told he trusted the women. We only stayed in that church for a few months (just in case anyone wonders, it was a Missionary Alliance Church).
Yeah, let's wait to see if this wolf is vegetarian. ;)
(hello Gabe!)
"Yeah, let's wait to see if this wolf is vegetarian."
That's a good one and entering my vocabulary for future reference!
The sad reality is how few pastors realize the predatory nature of false teachers. The only conclusion I can draw in regard to it is the very real likelihood that most are hirelings and not shepherds.
There really is no such thing as a DMZ on the spiritual battleground of homes, churches, workplaces etc. This is a reality that I believe must be constantly reiterated in the modern western church obsessed with comfort.
In the word's of John MacArthur, "Good shepherds should be adept at throwing rocks at wolves as well as tending the sheep". :0)
Should pastors teach the flock to pray for the wolves after the warning. Is this a fair question in view of the commands about how to treat enemies and neighbors?
This past year has been a struggle within my church ,Christian Missionary Alliance, over not standing up to those that teach the word of faith heresy's and IHOP, Bethel with their Jesus Culture Band.
We supported the World Impact Tour (YWAM/IHOP, in our community. When I brought up the heretical nature of these organization to my pastor and on the CMA's forum site, this is the answer I got:
" I tried to respond a little earlier but for some reason my psting failed. Perhaps it was because I was ill an not thinking clearly. At any rate, although it seems the discussion has died down, I did want to respond briefly to the concerns expressed in the previous postings.
In short, the C&MA is not a part of the Word of Faith Movement. The movement misunderstands both the nature of God's Word and the true nature of faith as defined and demonstrated by the Word of God. This is not of course to suggest that everything said by those who adhere to the Word of Faith Movement is wrong. But it is to suggest that a great deal of descretion is in order. there can be no doubt that many people within the C&MA have been influenced by the Word of Faith Movement. It would be unusual if that were not the case since it has received a great deal of attention in the evangelical world as a whole. If you have concerns about what is being taught in the local church the first step is to speak to your pastor and elders. Having done that, you may also have the perrogative of speaking to your district superintendent. I am less familiar with the positions of the InternationaL House of Prayer so I am not able to comment regarding its theological positions. However, I can reaffirm that the C&MA Statement of Faith represents our best understanding of Scripture on key issues of evangelical faith."
I did talk to my pastor in great detail concerning the WOF and NAR positions. Results, the Sunday school class I was teaching was immediately vetted (1-3 John) to make sure I would not bring up any thing on false teachers but just express how much God loved us. Also our church group who meets in a home twice a month,had a lady bring up how her 16 year old daughter had "GOLD " dust on her hands after she had someone pray for her at a local IHOP connected event. I live in a small Iowa town and the impact of false teachers is taking its toll and no one seems to care.
Thank you GTY and Pastor MacArthur for bringing this the forefront. I am a Word of Faith and New Apostolic Reformation causality, and have had to relearn everything I thought I knew about scripture. this site has been life line for me. I am looking for a new church, because not being involved is not an option.
Elaine, I must say, good for you! Even as a new Christian, you knew enough Bible to discern truth from error. And the fact that you tossed the Joyce Meyer literature where it belongs, well done.
I have been to churches in several parts of the country, and so many people just follow along what they are told, and do not go home and read their bible like the Bereans - " Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11).
One of the many, many things I loved at Grace Community Church is when Pastor MacArthur would say "turn in your Bibles to...." There are so many churches where people do not carry a Bible at all, because the verse(s) are in the bulletin, or up on a screen. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I learned early on at Grace to bring my Bible because I will be using it.
Anyway, I just want to enourage you to continue on and be strong in the Lord and the strength of His might....
Here's a short addendum for the benefit of those who imagine John MacArthur has some kind of obligation to meet Michael Brown for whatever kind of "debate" Brown is spoiling for:
Great article. I am encouraged to keep praying for those that are being misled and also for those that are doing the misleading (and swindling, in most cases). This convicts me to be studying scripture much more than I do. It's easy to judge, but a bit more difficult to be discerning when my knowledge of God's Word isn't what it should be.
It's been a continuing quest to find a church that sticks to preaching God's Word and expects the congregants to search scripture for themselves. So far, they're more interested in how many people they can get to attend, how they can increase their numbers. The word "hirelings" fits. Never thought of it like that, but that's the fitting word.
I've been invited to various Bible studies that were using materials by folks, who are popular, that I wouldn't want to have presiding over my dog's funeral. If asked why I choose not to attend, it can get prickly when I try to carefully explain why the author doesn't meet the standards for shepherding anyone. I need to work on "speaking the truth in love"!
Elaine Bittencourt, I hope you don't mind, but your quote of "Yeah, let's wait to see if this wolf is vegetarian" is going into my vocabulary! And this was the first time I read Pastor MacArthur's quote, "Good shepherds should be adept at throwing rocks at wolves as well as tending the sheep". As a mom, that makes perfect sense to me!
I am surprised Dr Brown would appear on Benny Hinn's show. To me it makes him look foolish & not a serious teacher. Whenever I see a person appearing with a false profit I think he or her must not be any different & probably in it for financial gain. There are so many false teachers out there, that's it's hard to find a good one to trust. Being trained by John we can see the false ones fast. Many I've listened to for years & finally they give away to wrong teaching & an alarm goes off. Most people are drawn to them because of there entertainment value. With new believers that's what happens. Getting off the subject, what do you know about Dr Tim Keller? His preaching is sound, I hope. Thank you! Joyce
"the continuationist position gives an illusion of legitimacy to the broader Charismatic Movement" (p. 234).
I was at first under the impression this was going to be addressed, and illustration to some unavoidable consequences were given. However there seem to be an Informal fallacy here, namely,
(a) The charismatic movements has false teachers.
That man over there is an charismatic.
That man over there is a false teacher.
The kinds of hasty/sweeping generalizations are not biblical data to debunk the continuation position. Further, causal connection between continuationism and false teachers may exists, but evidence and an argument are needed to establish a causal connection. All this article does is tell a story of one guy doing his one thing with a false teacher. In fact this is a slippery slope, that claims that given one event, an alleged chain of events will follow but it offers little or no evidence to support such a claim
False teachers are just that. Continuationsist are brothers in Christ with real exegetical reasons for their position, and against the man arguments, and Bifurcation should stop.
Donna, thanks!
#9, Bob, this exemplifies C&MA Churches very well: "not bring up any thing on false teachers but just express how much God loved us. "
Besides all that, they have very shallow preaching, they twist Scripture to make their point (i.e. Daniel didn't eat from the king's table because he didn't want to be a glutton), their "gospel" is very inclusive (saw a lady talk, from the pulpit one Sunday morning, about her trip to Africa with her daughter, and at the end she quoted something by mother Teresa because she (mother Teresa) was the greatest example of love - I later asked her if she had a bible and could not find an example there at all - perhaps, I don't know, Jesus Christ?? She didn't say anything, just smiled). They teach Rick Warren's books, are very much involved with the "social gospel" and do NOT want to talk about having convictions, and biblical ones at that. They ordain women, and the pastor told me to stop studying theology because it would drive me crazy.
When my kids loved being at their weekly meeting but could not tell me anything that they had actually learned that day - besides games and playing guitar hero (kid you not), I knew it was time to get out of there.
My prayer for you is that you find a solid biblical church very soon.
#17 Posted by Elaine Bittencourt
I asked about the women being ordained and was told that was the Canadian CMA. see: http://www.cmacan.org/news_items/
Each country can do what is wants.
It just breaks my heart to see this happening. The library at my church is full of seeker friendly, word of faith (Joyce Myer )But have yet to find a single John MacArthur book.
I just added Strange Fire and 3 others to my own library.
Side note : it was Todd Friel's Wretched radio program that introduced me to GTY. I am forever grateful!
Just found a cessesionist church that I am in the process of looking at. But still need your prayers.
It is a tremendous challenge today where believers are hearing messages from every venue. One thing I have to remember is that this is spiritual warfare. The enemy has been using his deceptive tactics from the beginning. I find that much of what trips up believers is in the "adding" to the Scriptures, which in essence is replacing it. Subtlety is often what I have had to contend with in regards to being a part of a particular church. The belief that God continues to speak seems to be a very big teaching in what is called the "Renovare" movement. The Scriptures are only a part of how communicates according this teaching. They actually teach that silence and solitude are as important as Bible reading. Much of what is emphasized is the "experience" you are having as Christ "continues" to speak you. One aspect of the ministry seems to be biblical and yet what is taught among certain studies in the church focuses on "experience". The only source of truth is God's Word and the enemy continues to seek to twist and undermine this in the life of the church. We truly need leaders that hold to God's only source of revelation, the Bible. Thank you all at GTY for doing just that.
Before this discussion strays too far off-topic, let's all agree to not use this comment thread to air grievances with various denominations, swap stories about which famous pastor said what, or lob accusations and doubts about the discernment of other Bible teachers and their ministries. We ought to be able to have a biblical discussion regarding these issues without floating every theory, rumor, and anecdote about _______.
"If we researched & criticised all the crooks, cons, and cookies in the Charismatic Movement we'd have no time for anything else."
Perhaps moderate continuationists would have more time to heed the command to rebuke heresy if they weren't mis appropriating that time attempting to resurrect apostolic gifts.
I have the up-most respect for Grace to You, the staff, and Pastor-Teacher John MacArthur. His teachings through God have changed my life and mind, heart, and soul...And continues to do so. Amen!
Where do we draw the line in any denomination saying "your wrong here?" or "your wrong there?" As I said, I know the Pentecostal denomination is, I don't know how else to put this, the worst at confusion, distorting, and spiritually misguiding everyone into believing their way or the highway. You have the Pentecostal denomination watering down, and many other denominations (including Baptist), no wonder so many people are lost and confused, all the while they are saved, but are being led astray by false or misguided teaching.
I tend to view it like Charles Spurgeon did: likening these folks to individuals who, "I hope they were insane," or, "There has not for some years passed over my head a singe week in which I have not been pestered with the revelations of hypocrites or maniacs." At another time he refers to them as, "Semi-lunatics." Page 258 of Strange Fire.
Really, when a dog is a dog, you call him a dog. Hinn is very likely insane. He's forfeiting his soul for a few earthly bucks. Come on, that's insane. Right?
the whole country seems to want entitlements, why not the church.
Raymond writes,
there seem to be an Informal fallacy here, namely, (a) The charismatic movements has false teachers.
I am not sure if I follow your syllogism. I guess you mean to say "that" man is supposed to be charismatic=false teacher?
The reality is that the broader charismatic movement IS rife with false teaching, "speaking in tongues equates true salvation," "generational curses," "deliverance ministries," "demons can infest inanimate objects," "no healing means person lacked true faith," etc.
Continuationists who insist that the spiritual gifts are for Christians today, yet otherwise may not practice those false teachings, do lend legitimacy to those other charismatics who practice such things. This is especially true when such individuals like Grudem attempt to put an academic face on certain charismatic practices.
Further, causal connection between continuationism and false teachers may exists, but evidence and an argument are needed to establish a causal connection.
And I think this post does show such a connection. Brown claims to be a sound Pentecostal who is grieved by manipulative huckster evangelists like Hinn, yet he readily buddies up with Hinn, even now saying he has yet to see any "evidence" that Hinn teaches falsely.
All this article does is tell a story of one guy doing his one thing with a false teacher.
It is illustrative of the reality that continuationist theology provides no sure ability to properly discern why one guy is a false teacher, while another one allegedly is not.
Continuationsist are brothers in Christ with real exegetical reasons for their position, and against the man arguments, and Bifurcation should stop.
No one here has claimed continuationists are not brothers in Christ. The problem is that their theology, in spite of what so-called "real exegetical reasons" you may think they have for their views, ultimately provides cover to such men like Hinn. Brown, who says he deplores such false teachers, has now readily embraced the worst of the lot. What prevents other continuationists from doing so also?
Good evening! Well, last night I had posted a lengthy post commenting on the blog. As it turns out, thanks to one of the GTY staff members, they were gracious enough to e-mail me and say that they would be more than happy to edit my lengthy post, per my consent. I replied with gratitude and told the GTY staff member that they could do that and I think they will edit my post to make it come across more understable for everyone, since my thoughts were getting a bit carried away last night. Anyway, I took a little advice from the staff member and I will keep the comment simple tonight. In that regard, people that see this and than my edited post from the last night, might be able to piece together what I was/am trying to gather together on the subject of this blog. Over the course of the weekend, people than can see this and hopefully the edited post, and respond/comment accordingly.
Okay, just one (maybe two) pretty straight-forward questions for tonight.
~ In all the denominational and non-denominational churches we have in the U.S.A., WHERE does one draw the biblical line for and in every denominational and non-denominational churches in America? Better put - HOW does one draw the biblical line for and in every denominational and non-denominational churches in America? My gist here is all denominational and non-denominational churches in America have their own set of beliefs that defer a little from one another. Because of that, I see (in some cases, a lot - i.e., in the Pentecostal denomination/movement) friction/dissension that causes a trickling-down effect from one said denomination to the next. The trickling-down effect seems than to cause all, (or most), denominations to sort of have this pious, negative attitude that catapults back and forth into each denominational and non-denominational church. I put MOST in parenthesis because I don't believe ALL churches are that way, but I believe most are turning out to be that way. Before one jumps to conclusions with what I have just typed, let me back up for a moment. I understand the blog is particularly about the Pentecostal denomination/movement and the controversies/tragedies over the years that the denomination has caused in harming hundreds of thousands of people into believing their false teachings and fake prosperity healings. I also understand why Pastor John MacArthur chose to narrow-down and pin-point this denomination, for what it really is. That's why the Strange Fire Conference took place and what a privilege it was for Pastor MacArthur and the GTY staff to allow us all to download and listen to the conference for FREE! Now, with that out of the way the point I am making is NOT all Pentecostal churches are as extreme as portrayed in the conference, but that does not negate the fact that it is slowly killing the other denominational churches from ministering properly and effectively preaching in their church, thus causing a trickling-down effect that I
mentioned earlier. Because of this trickling-down effect and what it is doing to other denominational and non-denominational churches is absurd to say the least. The youth are vulnerable to their almost cult-like endeavors. Luring young (and old) to hypnotic, trance-like music, "speaking-in-tongues" psycho-babbling , fake (demonic) supernatural healings, etc...The list goes on. I have been in some of them, though not as extreme. Nonetheless, it is still (I believe) a crafty, luring draw orchestrated from Satan and his demonic realm these things I mentioned that goes on in SOME of the Pentecostal churches.
Let's go back to the questions I had. WHERE and HOW does one draw the line biblically from this denominational church to the next denominational church. It's almost easy to say "WHERE?" That would be the infallible Word of God. Sounds easy, right? Not so much for the ones stuck, been raised, or lured into that denominational church.
As for the other denominational churches, it is by far not as severe to say they are being lied to, or being falsely preached to. Sad to say this, not all, but MOST are not too far behind the Pentecostal denominations ways of seducing people to join their church/denomination. Again, my main is NOT so much WHERE do we draw the line biblically, but HOW? I know the world is changing, and my prayers are always hope-filled and prayerful that God will raise us up as a nation that would be honoring and bring abundant grace and mercy to this great country, in fear and reverence of Him. We need a drastic change of hearts in all denominations to come together and preach the Word of God as it is supposed to be preached. That's my answer to the "HOW?"
I am going to close with that. I hope people understand and can respond accordingly and we can have a good discussion on not so much WHERE, but HOW do we draw the line biblically so that all denominational and non-denominational churches can come to one accord here in the U.S.A...I say the United States, because I am talking denominational churches of the somewhat same doctrinal CHRISTIAN faith/beliefs of salvation, baptism, etc...Pentecostal's believe in salvation & baptism, as well as many other denomination's. Salvation in all denomination's (and baptism) should be enough to please God and bring Him glory, but I just don't see that in many churches today. I see a lot of confusion and distortion/twisting of the Word of God (The Holy Bible), that it is know wonder so many people stay away from the faith or are so confused even within their own denomination.
Main point and question: Where & How do we draw the line biblically across all denominations so that we can somehow make the way not so difficult and frustrating as different denominations seem to be making it?
Fred stated,
"It is illustrative of the reality that continuationist theology provides no sure ability to properly discern why one guy is a false teacher, while another one allegedly is not."
Fred my former statements still stand, you have not provided any evidence against those statements. However what you did do in the above comment is express the direction this whole thing seems to be heading. Continuationists do have discernment, and not any less than a cessationist, yet you claim continuationists do not. Second, it appears you mark Brown as a false teacher from the context you responded to, if this is true, I again would state, Continuationsist are brothers in Christ with real exegetical reasons for their position, and against the man arguments, and Bifurcation should stop.
Yes, false teaching is in the charismatic movement, yet what does that have to do with believing, from scripture, that gifts have continued, that speaking in tongues/prophecy have not ceased? I do neither, but I do not put bad names/images on those who do, like the bad image of charismatic heresy as you did. One can be a continuationsist and not involved in the charismatic movement whatsoever. This is the type of broad brush I think BROTHERS in Christ are complaining about.
The message seems to be: conform to the cessationst interpretation or, be pictured with false teachers.
No one has to picture Michael Brown with Benny Hinn; he joined him on stage as a ministry partner, lending Hinn all sorts of illegitimate credibility in the process. We're not making it up--you can watch the videos for yourself if you like.
And while I don't disagree that our continuationist friends do possess discernment, it can't be used selectively. True discernment doesn't have an on/off switch. And partnering with false teachers isn't the way to prove that it's working.
Spotting and confronting blatant false teachers and doctrinal error seems to be the easy task-at-hand in our era. The more difficult task is appropriately and effectively spotting and confronting subtle practices and teachings that creep into our evangelical congregations. Not only has the "don't judge least ye be judged" culture permeated modern churches, all confrontation is often restricted to the pastoral responsibility alone. The layperson is condemned as stirring up division among the body of Christ. Is the confrontation of error "out of bounds" to the layperson? Or, is everyone accountable to speak up in an appropriate manner?
The basic Truth is God (His Word - John 1:1), His unique Son - Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit. So simple, but people make it so difficult. Out of pride that began in the angelic realm with the fallen angel Lucifer (The Morning Star), his narcissism and self-gratifying attitude threw him down from the heavens along with a third of the other angelic beings, who were then (and still are) bound in chains and darkness until the around the Great Final Judgement (refer to Revelation 20:7-14). My point, even God gave angel's free-will to choose. Why? Because He wants ALL, even the angel's, to have free-will to CHOOSE and not be like robots serving Him like ROBOTS. He wants us to willingly serve Him, as so with the angelic realm.
Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard Browne, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc...Have sold their souls for the LOVE of MONEY! "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." (I Timothy 6:10, ESV).
Is it really than that difficult than to know what they are doing? Satan and the demonic realm know the Scriptures and tremble. "You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!" (James 2:19, ESV)
These heretics know the Truth, but are CHOOSING to sell their souls for MONEY.
I compare that comment in contrast to what Judas Iscariot did to Jesus by selling Him over to the chief priests for blood money (30 pieces of silver to purchase Potter's field). He knew the Truth, but for the LOVE of MONEY, he sold his very soul. He was remorseful, but in an unforgiving way. Over his guilty conscience, he hung himself and his bodily entrails exploded. Reminds me of the book 'Pilgrim's Progress' where Christian feels like his insides are going to explode because of sin.
Point is, these false prophets know what they are doing and basically are selling their souls at any cost, simply for the LOVE of MONEY... NOT GOD/JESUS/THE HOLY SPIRIT! What a shame to see these heretics damning their own souls and all the people that are being led astray by their false preachings! May God rescue them and everyone involved in such movements. I pray in Jesus Name, Amen.
Thank you, Grace to You and Pastor John MacArthur for preaching the Word of God how it is supposed to be, not out of for the LOVE of MONEY, but for the LOVE of TRUTH and for EVERYONE to come to the saving knowledge of the one and only LIVING GOD...God bless you all and your ministry!
#17 Posted by Elaine Bittencourt
"My prayer for you is that you find a solid biblical church very soon."
Just talk to Pastor of church I was looking at and after about 5
minutes I asked him what he thought of Pastor John MacArthur. Pastor said "John MacArthur!, I have his entire NT commentaries and just was listening to the "Strange Fire" conference sessions by him. What else is there to say!
GTY is impacting the church with the truth. Thank you all.
It's interesting reading here how so many folks don't seem to understand just how serious this issue should be... ESPECIALLY to Continuationalists...
In fact - to a true Continuationalist - the call is even MORE urgent perhaps than you realize. ... God loves us.. He IS trying to help guide us... and this may include revealing important things to the Faithful - but... Here we are - ENCOURAGING the clogging up the "Bandwidth" up with Hubris, Pride, and DECEPTION... Allowing all the Blather and Lies to clobber up and overwhelm the True Word of God....
And Even Worse - knowing our Enemy - WE SHOULD expect increasingly MORE of the "Bandwidth" to be clogged up with Deception Specifically When GOD is doing Important things. Think of Micah the prophet's vision.... Lying spirits going out specifically to distract the TRUE message to prevent Repentance.. and so the King wouldn't listen to His message in the face of all the other prophets prophesying good things about the king.....
Then - we don't want to hurt feelings... We are so worried about turning away "Sinners" or loosing some money on offerings that we don't turn away Wolves.... we just bring them in with open arms.. "Oh.. It's harmless"..... then act so surprised when Wolves do what Wolves do.... Understand that we WERE NOT called to be squishy, mushy, accommodating LUMPS...
No... Stand Up Church! Test the Spirits - Purge out those who preach false messages and practice Lying signs so that we MIGHT BE ABLE TO HEAR the True message of God! Learn to Hear the Shepherd's voice... Learn HOW to discern and Reject all the others..
Hello. I am quite interested in this topic and have been following it for over a year now. I have been a listener of GTY for many years and have always appreciated the majority of John MacArthur's solid teachings. I do have some misgivings on "Strange Fire," however, and I am a little surprised at this one. I hope I am allowed to share my thoughts, and I won't share everything in this one post (both observations and questions). But I would, respectfully, like to share one of my observations.
Please note: The first comment was too long, so it will appear in two parts.
The most troublesome question I have is that is it Biblically right to name whole world-wide denominations like the Charismatics and Pentecostals for seeming to be scripturally incorrect if there is no solid proof that "every single" church and every single person attending one is off-base Scripturally? What if I attended a church associated with the Pentecostals, and I witnessed none of the Scripturally incorrect goings-on that are mentioned in Strange Fire? I am from Canada, and so far, in the past several years, have never had one single issue come up that are mentioned in Strange Fire with the Pentecostal churches. In fact, they have been some of the few churches that are about as Biblically sound and traditional as you can get (they are "Pentecostal" in name only). They have also demonstrated a Christ-centered heart, are supportive, participate gladly and whole-heartedly in outreach to the congregation and the lost, and never ever force their doctrines or anything else on anyone. As a Bible scholar myself, and a Borean at heart (this is why I appreciate John MacArthur's ministry so much), I have found their teachings are quite solid and soundly Biblical, or I would never have even considered attending their churches.
PART 2 next post ...
Part 2 of 2 (see previous post)
Perhaps Pentecostal churches are different in the US or elsewhere? Even so, I wonder if it is wise to mention these denominations, and also the individuals associated with them, in a way that feels almost offensive? Is this the Biblically correct way to deal with it, or is it divisive for those individuals attending these churches who are sincere? I am thinking of the following passages of Scripture:
Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
I understand the heart and reasons behind Strange Fire. I just wonder if it could have been handled in such a way that would not seem so divisive. I would shudder to think that non-Christians who could be reading, watching and listening may be turned off by Christianity because of the way in which this topic is presented. Or perhaps some reading this have been saved or greatly helped through one or more of the individuals/ministries mentioned in Strange Fire as being false and of the devil. Would it be right to offend them? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for letting me share.
Please let me refer you to a couple resources that might help answer the questions you posed.
First is this short video, titled "John MacArthur's Encouragement to Faithful Pentecostals." In it, John acknowledges the very point you made--that there are faithful men and women within the movement who truly love the Lord and His Word, and who have no part in the excesses and aberrations that Strange Fire addresses. He also calls on them to be part of the solution by speaking out and eliminating the safe harbor the movement has historically provided for charlatans, thieves, and liars.
In fact, John has been sympathetic to faithful believers in the charismatic movement from the very beginning. In the first video blog for the Strange Fire conference, he recognized that people are coming to know the Lord in charismatic churches, but that the rampant error and corruption in the movement makes it very hard for them to grow spiritually. His point is that the truth of God's Word must dominate in order for His people to grow.
As for the potentially divisive nature of Strange Fire, I think John said it best during the conference:
We have also been accused of being divisive. I would agree with that. Truth by its very nature is divisive. That's why Jesus said "I came to bring a sword," to divide people, divide families. Truth by very nature is separated by error and it is far more important to be divided by the truth than united by error. I understand that truth is divisive.
That message was called "An Appeal to Charismatic Friends" and you can listen to it here. In it, John answers many of the major criticisms of the conference, and further explains why it was necessary. As he's often said, the most loving thing you can do for someone is tell them the truth. You might ruffle some feathers and step on some toes, but it's far more unloving to leave them in living darkness and error.
Hello. I Hope everything is going well TODAY for everyone.
I am getting & going & seeking out & having the most fantastic healing.....RIGHT NOW !!!
I am WITNESSING something I have NEVER SEEN at the level I've seen form THIS BLOG!
I made a comment,and after carefully and quietly observing within the Buccal Shelf of the internet-I am still held within this one truth that Christ's Love is ALL together sufficient in it's working a mighty.mighty work in and thru all who would just simply STOP and smell the coffee.
I have NEVER ,at least for now;been given an opportunity to TALK,WALK and MOST IMPORTANTLY grow in ways like NEVER before!
Since I have WATCHED every session of the "STRANGE FIRE CONFERENCE". I have learned to CONTROL MY ANGER and become more HUMBLE!
Thank you, Mr. MacArthur for what I'd call a surgically sincere message THAT I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO HEAR. I applaud you for your devotion and DILIGENT study. I HOPE I NEVER GET OVER IT!!!
It's unfortunate that cessationism vs continationism has obscured the true danger of the word/faith movement. This has actually played right into the hands of such as Benny Hinn.
How? Hinn cries out 'brothers, I am on trial for being a continuationalist!'. And what happens? True believers such as Dr. Michael Brown come running to his aid, abandoning discernment to circle the Charismatic wagons.
With this Hinn wins in two ways.
First, the true danger of His teaching is obscured.
Second, he is legitimized by such as Dr. Brown instead of being disassociated by him (which would have caused severe damage to the word/faith movement).
What is this true danger which cessationalists have moved to the back burner?
Hinn and the like preach exactly what the world wants to hear. That man can love this world and love God at the same time. The exact thing Christ warned against. That man can have salvation on his terms. That Jesus will follow men on man's path (blessing them with all this world has to offer), instead of requiring men to follow Him on His path.
Hinn must be laughing right now.
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Mars remains in the west at dusk this month as it moves through Aries. Mars continues to fade a little each night as Earth continues to leave it farther behind. Later on this month, Mars begins to be lost in the glare of the Sun.
Mercury enters the evening sky as Mars leaves it. By April 30, Mars will be gone but Mercury will be low in the west northwest, near the Pleiades star cluster.
Venus is in the west at dusk. Look over the point of sunset for the brightest thing there.
Jupiter is now high in the sky, almost overhead, as soon as night falls. Jupiter outshines all stars we ever see at night, so it will be obvious when you look up at dusk.
Saturn is in the southwest at dawn.
Brilliant winter stars shift towards the west during April. Dazzling Orion is high in the southwest at dusk. His three-starred belt is halfway between reddish Betelgeuse and bluish Rigel. Orion's belt points right to Aldebaran in Taurus the Bull. Above Orion are the twin stars Castor and Pollux, marking the heads of Gemini, the Twins. Jupiter is among the Twins this month. You can find Sirius, the brightest star we ever see at night, by drawing a line from Orion's belt towards south (left as you face west). Forming a triangle with Betelgeuse and Sirius is Procyon, the Little Dog Star.
Joining the winter stars are stars of spring in the south and east. Look for Leo, the Lion almost overhead at dusk. In the east, extend the Big Dipper's handle to 'Arc to Arcturus' and then 'speed on to Spica'.
Moon Phases in April 2015:
Full April 5, 7:05 am
Last Quarter April 11, 10:44 pm
New April 18, 1:56 pm
1st Quarter April 25, 5:55 pm
The Full Moon of April 4 passes through the Earth's shadow, causing a total lunar eclipse. Unfortunately, the Moon clips the edge of the Earth's shadow, allowing for only 5 minutes of totality. What's more, for us the eclipse occurs near moonset and sunrise (which are almost simultaneous when there is a lunar eclipse). That puts the Moon low to the horizon during the eclipse; only those with clear views all the way to the western horizon can get a good look. It also means that totality falls during morning twilight.
Eclipse times:
Partial eclipse begins: 5:15 am
Totality 6:57-7:02 am
Moonset (still partially eclipsed) 7:13 am
On most clear Saturday nights at the George Observatory, you can hear me do live star tours on the observation deck with a green laser pointer. If you're there, listen for my announcement.


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Bossier Parish Community College is located on Hwy. 80 at 6220 East Texas Street, Bossier City, Louisiana. Bossier City, the largest city in Bossier Parish, has a population of over 60,000. Many lakes, parks, and other recreational facilities may be found in the area. Cultural activities and organizations are diverse, including a planetarium, state exhibit building, art museums, symphony society, little theatre group, and summer concerts facilities.
BPCC we sing to you
Maroon and gold.
BPCC we bring to you
faith untold.
You challenge and inspire
Your hope is our desire.
From deep inside we're filled with pride
Maroon and gold.
Excellence in education and service.
The mission of Bossier Parish Community College is to provide instruction and service to its community. This mission is accomplished through courses and programs that provide sound academic education, broad career and workforce training, continuing education, and varied community services through flexible instructional delivery systems. The College provides a wholesome, ethical, and intellectually stimulating environment in which diverse students develop their academic and workforce skills to compete in a technological society.
To achieve its mission of instruction and service, Bossier Parish Community College is committed to:
Mission Statement
The purpose and mission of the BPCC Foundation is to host fundraising events and activities to raise monies that will assist the College in the following manner: to provide additional student scholarships, to sponsor faculty and staff professional development workshops, and to support the athletic programs.
Organized in 1998, the BPCC Foundation, Inc. was designed for the purpose and mission of engaging in educational, scientific, literal, benevolent, and charitable works exclusively for Bossier Parish Community College.
The fundamental purpose of the Foundation is to promote the educational and cultural welfare of Bossier Parish Community College, to improve the College's facilities so as to provide broader educational advantages and opportunities, to encourage educational advancement, and to increase the College's usefulness to the citizens of Louisiana.
In addition, the BPCC Foundation is dedicated to providing educational and financial resources to the students, faculty, and staff of Bossier Parish Community College. The Foundation awards up to 23 scholarships each semester. For more information, log on to the foundation website at www.bpcc.edu/foundation or send email to email@example.com.
Bossier Parish Community College's campus has expanded through the years:
|Administration, Learning Resources, The Learning Center
|Science and Allied Health
|Performing Arts Theatre
|Economic Development, Educational Technology, and Telecommunications
|Mathematics/Technical Education and Behavioral & Social Sciences
|Student Services (Admissions, Advising/Counseling, Bookstore, Business Office, Financial Aid, Recruitment, Registrar, Student Life, etc.) and Culinary Arts
|Business/Computer Science, Liberal Arts, and
Computer Services
|Health and Physical Education Complex
|Physical Plant and Purchasing
|Central Plant


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Wells Fargo's Big Idea: Shrinking Branch Office
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Can neighborhood bank branch offices works smarter, and not harder?
Oh, and can they work smaller, too?
Wells Fargo
Wells Fargo says its new branch office is only 1,000 square feet -- well below the company's usual 3,000 to 4,000 per branch.
Bank executives call it the first in a line of offices catering to what consumers want in a banking market that is turning toward mobile banking and advanced technology banking services.
"With this new store concept, we'll be able to offer person-to-person sales and service along with leading banking technology in settings that previously would have discouraged us from building a store," says Jonathan Velline, director of Wells Fargo's ATM banking and store strategy division. "Stores are central to our strategy of providing excellent service and meeting our customers' financial needs. This new neighborhood bank concept complements our traditional stores to help us bring the Wells Fargo store experience to more customers."
The branch's large-screen ATMs has software that will anticipate what a customer wants to do, the bank says, as well as dispense different levels of currency -- including $1, $5 and $100 bills. The bank will also offer free wireless hotspots that enable customers to access their bank accounts on the premises.
Wells Fargo expects to roll out versions of the bank branch in other markets, tweaking and changing the concept on the fly.
"We expect to evolve the concept as we receive feedback from the new store," Velline said. "We believe in using customer feedback to 'test and learn' new products, technologies and services as we seek to continuously provide leading banking experience that meets all our customers' financial needs."
Wells Fargo isn't the only bank changing the face of the local bank branch. JPMorgan Chase


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Walk, Don't Run - Page 2
When to Walk
First, you must first decide that you are willing to walk, which may be difficult for runners who have primarily run shorter distances or come from a road-running background. If in doubt, try it in training or a low-key race environment. Know that you're not swallowing your pride when you walk; you're simply taking part in an activity that includes both running and walking.
To determine when to start walking, look for two clues. If your breathing is ragged on any hill, that's an excellent sign you should be walking. In addition, unless you're nearing the finish line, if you're running up a hill and everyone around you is walking, take the hint. Tonya Olson, a physical therapist, learned that lesson early in her ultrarunning career, "If everyone experienced in a sport is engaging in an activity, then maybe you should, too."
When does Max King switch to walking? "It's usually when I'm redlining and I just need a quick break to bring my heart rate back down a few beats. Also, if I figure out that walking is just as fast as running, then it's pointless not to walk."
As you gain experience, you will build awareness of how to maintain an even effort on the ups, flats and downs. You'll know when to downshift from running to walking on a hill. Obviously, this perceived target effort tends to be harder in racing than in training and harder in shorter runs than in longer ones.
How to Walk
The most common mistake is walking and using the wrong muscles. Says Olson, "You should push yourself up the mountain with your glutes, rather than pull yourself with your quads and calves." Not only will you be using a bigger set of muscles when you need them most, you'll be resting other muscles for running the trail.
To help engage your glutes (aka butt muscles), lean slightly forward with your center of mass slightly in front of your pelvis. However, don't hunch over, and keep your back straight.
Once you are employing your glutes, focus on shortening your stride (when you look down, your line of sight should fall even with your toes) and maintaining an even cadence. Long strides with a large moment of suspension are a big energy waster.
Consider using trekking poles while walking up extremely steep or long climbs, particularly in marathon or longer events. They can help you power up a hill. In contrast, avoid using your hands on your knees while you're climbing, as that's a sign you're engaging your quads rather than your glutes.
The single best way to improve your uphill walking? Practice. Otherwise, Olson advises trying any activity or exercise that isolates the glutes, such as side-lying hip abduction, a single-leg bridge or a split squat with your rear foot elevated (see http://www.tensegrityphysicaltherapy.com/exercises.html).


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To build a computer network in your home or office without running wires everywhere, you need a wireless router to create a Wi-Fi access point. Wi-Fi clients such as laptops, tablets and smartphones can connect via radio signals from anywhere within the router's range to share data. Attach the router to a modem, and those same clients can also wirelessly access the Internet. Wireless routers usually have Ethernet ports, so they can simultaneously support hard-wired networking, and some have USB ports for sharing a printer or an external hard drive over the network.
Wireless routers use two frequency bands, 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. The 2.4 GHz band is more crowded, so consider a dual-band router for better performance. These are typically more expensive than single-band routers, but are faster and more reliable because they can work on both bands. Simultaneous or "true" dual-band routers, which work on both bands at the same time, offer the best performance. Some dual-band routers aren't simultaneous, so check a router's specs carefully.
Many factors can interfere with your wireless network, including nearby electronic devices, other Wi-Fi networks and even the layout of your house. Manufacturers don't take these real-world scenarios into account when claiming a router's performance, and experts say the best routers deliver about half of their claimed throughput.
Wireless routers follow communications standards set by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE). Up until relatively recently, IEEE 802.11n was the most advanced Wi-Fi standard. Routers that support this, sometimes called wireless-N models, offer better performance and security than older wireless-G routers. However, some wireless-G routers are still popular with advanced users, thanks in part to their hackability. Many use open-source firmware.
The latest wireless standard is 802.11.ac, or wireless-AC. Dual-band wireless-N routers claim throughput of up to 900 Mbps (megabits per second), or 450 Mbps on each band, while wireless-AC theoretically offers up to 1.3 Gbps or 1,300 Mbps. The catch? Wireless-AC isn't currently certified by the Wi-Fi Alliance; available models are considered "draft" 802.11ac routers.
Relatively few devices currently support 802.11ac, but that should change quickly. For starters, Apple includes 802.11ac support in MacBook Air models released in mid-2013, as well as in its AirPort Extreme wireless router released simultaneously. Note that 802.11ac routers are backward compatible with devices that support earlier Wi-Fi standards (802.11a/b/g/n), so opting for one won't render other devices obsolete. You won't, however, get wireless-AC performance with those.
Because wireless routers can get quite technical, finding the right one can be an arduous task. The good news is that many of the routers reviewed here are fairly easy to set up and use, even for a beginner. To help narrow your choices, we look at expert and owner evaluations to find the very best models overall. We name the top wireless routers for Windows and Mac users, as well as 802.11ac, hackable and budget options. Reviews break down models by ease of use, performance and features, and those that rate the highest earn Best Reviewed status in our report.
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By clicking on Sponsored Links you will leave ConsumerSearch.com. The web site you will go to is not endorsed by ConsumerSearch.


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|MVWS May 2008 Newsletter is available for download
|Written by Bob Truetken
|Saturday, 07 June 2008
The May 2008 Newsletter is posted. Once you log in, you can view it by clicking on the "Downloads" link on the left side of this page. Click on Monthly Newsletters then click MVWS 2008 Newsletters.
Reminder: Bring your wine glass to the next meeting. Thanks!
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I figured out that someone subscribed to ForestSpeaks just so that each time a message is sent out, they can reply with a 'vaction mail' response. But rather than the usual 'Im away on holiday until ...', it was some spam crap. The mofo in question was neal_whitaker [at] hotmail [dot] com.
And some cunt bubble has been spamming the BB too. They usually have a silly name, with some numbers after it, and they like to bump/lurk. I'm out of the habit of checking new users, as our anti spam stuff has been working very well. Maybe with the recession, it is becoming cost effective to use real humans instead of bots.