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Meeting health care needs
Recently, I was watching the local news. There was a story about somebody in the U.P. needing a kidney and there was a spaghetti dinner to raise money.
Later on in the newscast there was another story about another person needing another body part, so there was yet another spaghetti dinner to raise money.
I think this area is just screaming for universal health care. In Europe, where they have universal health care (and tax the citizens at the 50 percent rate), they are ruled by kings and queens. They don't call universal health care "socialism" because they have a monarchy.
The people call their health plan their health plan and don't call it "socialized medicine"… which is what the Republicans in this country call it. I would rather have their health plan rather than needing to have a spaghetti dinner to pay for a new kidney.
Robert Hunt
Iron Mountain


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Share Your Reflection

I quite approve of discussing the Golden Record, and
I quite approve of discussing the Golden Record, and other ways of trying to communicate with any extraterrestrial species. As Carl Sagan explained, it is a powerful opportunity for self-examination. There is, however, one subtlety that you did not note above, or during your very well-presented segment on the show. The Golden Record is not the best way we are making our presence known to the universe. Radio emission, including the show as broadcast by NPR, constantly leak into space. For the last forty years, there have been some radio channels where the Earth outshines the Sun. As part of my graduate studies, I have used the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico as a transmitter that could be detected at the other end of the galaxy, if anyone happens to be in the path of the signal.
Arecibo is of course more often used as receiver, and the SETI program is quite vital in real life as well as in fiction such as Dr. Russell's (although they have not yet found a signal, a paradox noted as early as 1950 by Enrico Fermi). But Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute informs me that the current leakage radiation from the Earth would barely be detected by Arecibo if it were coming from Alpha Centauri, which is the closest star. The most effective message to the stars would be to make a powerful transmitter that transmits in all directions and lasts for many centuries.
Such a long-term project would necessarily become the focus of religious and ethical debates. I personally like the idea, but I am biased by being trained as a radio astronomer. I would like to know the thoughts of others on if it is a good idea to make such a radio beacon.

I'm a pragmatist in some ways and like the idea of
I'm a pragmatist in some ways and like the idea of reaching out in all directions. Are there any projects in place that currently do anything like this? I am intrigued by your mention of religious and ethical debates about such a project. What discussions are taking place within your scientific communities about such an endeavor?

First, I must apologize for the typos in my post above,
First, I must apologize for the typos in my post above, especialy confusing NPR and
American Public Media. I also apologize if the following is too verbose.
There has been no large-scale effort to build a beacon. SETI has focused on looking for transmissions. The exceptions are either incidental, such as the radar work at Arecibo, or intended more as a "message to back here", as Sagan described the Voyager record. The Cosmic Call Project shows the latter - their signals reach only a few stars, and last only hours.
The problem is the unknown distance to any aliens. At a minimum, aliens at all similar to us are at least four and a half lightyears away (at Alpha Centauri). Any reply arrives at least a decade after a radio signal goes out. Given arbitrary values for how often life occurs on other planets, how often intelligences develop and build radios, and how long they use them, we can estimate the distance as anything from four and a half lightyears to infinity, the latter where we are alone in the universe. This analysis was developed by Frank Drake, and is a favorite of astronomers. Typical estimates are several hundred to a few thousand lightyears, so that a beacon has no effects that we can know about for centuries. One astronomer called SETI "the archeology of the future".
There _have_ been engineering studies of beacons, especially by the SETI Institute (www.seti.org). Since I think in terms of numbers: for the equivalent of 100 million US dollars, we could build a beacon to reach 300 million stars, last for 1000 years without human intervention and transmit the equivalent of a single book or a constantly tended and repaired beacon that transmits the information contained in a thousand books over the same volume.
In discussions between astronomers, engineers, and members of the public, the first ethical question is "should a beacon be built?". I've heard arguments that "we are alone, so we don't need to talk", although I do not believe that myself. Another argument, perhaps based on _The War of the Worlds_, is "be quiet and the aliens won't invade". Invading a planet lightyears away is probably more trouble than it's worth, but this idea can't be discarded entirely either. An economic argument derived from the long timescale is "a beacon is a waste of resources", although when compared to some projects, 100 million is not large.
Given agreement that a beacon be built, there are more arguments. If the beacon needs people to maintain it, is there an institution to sustain them for a thousand years? Only religion and some philosophies work on such large timescales in human society.
You have asked what information should be included in the message sent by the beacon. That is a very large question, and probably generates the most debate. There are entire books of argument from when Sagan's team was assembling the Record. But before that, how can we establish a common language with someone we have never met? We can use mathematics and physics as a Rosetta Stone: start with arithmetic and work up through chemistry to biology and eventually culture and philosophy. But the details are complex, including linguistic theories of grammar and the extent to which we and any alien experience the universe the same way. All of this happens before we reach the types of questions asked by Dr. Russell.
Some other sources discussing the ethics and philosophy of SETI:
As you note above, Carl Sagan was the grandmaster of this field, both in non-fiction and fictional works. His largest discussion, the novel Contact, was developed into a movie which could not include all of the ideas.
The SETI Institute operates the largest current SETI survey, and as I described above, has considered the design of a beacon. In particular, Jill Tarter, their director of research, is active in considering the ethical aspects. Dr. Tarter was Sagan's inspiration for the heroine of the Contact story.

Send more Chuck Berry!

Send more Chuck Berry!

subset: commoncrawl


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Gave the steel plate another try tonight. One of the better "in the home oven" pies I've made. Nothing special:Flour - 100% (KABF)Water - 64%IDY - 0.5%Salt - 2.0%Olive Oil - 2.5%Sugar - 1.5%Dissolve salt and sugar in water. Add flour and IDY. Stir together with Danish Dough Whisk. Let rest 5 min. Add oil, squish in with hands. Let rest 5 min. Minimal kneading (five or six slap on the counter type kneads, one or two regular with the heel of the hand kneads). Into the fridge bulk for 18 hours. Out of the fridge for one hour, divide and gently re-ball. Back to the fridge for two hours, then out of the fridge for two hours. Oven preheated to 550F for 75 min with steel plate about 4-inches below broiler (electric). 4:30 min bake with broiler on for about 2:00 min.
Is there an alternative to the Danish Dough Whisk?
Where is a good place to buy one and what size works best?
I'm thinking that the Flat Beater attachment is more like the Danish Dough Whisk than the Dough Hook attachment. Do you concur?
but my digital scale required way more water than necessary to reach 390.91 g.


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Corporate Social Responsibility: What Do You Care About?
September 11, 2012
Featuring case studies from ANA members Dell, Ford, and The Hershey Company, this ANA Insight Brief demonstrates how a well-executed CSR program can drive valuable business benefits. Additionally, learn how conducting consumer research can help the greater good and why cause marketing is more important to the Millennial generation than any other demographic.
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Hurricane Sandy, Fiscal Cliff Spark New Discussion of Carbon Tax
Originally posted on Washington Wire.
With the fiscal cliff looming and parts of the U.S. still digging out from the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, calls for the U.S. to adopt a carbon tax are gathering steam–even though there's little sign of interest from Congress or the White House.
Today the conservative American Enterprise Institute is holding an all-day, on-the-record discussion of the idea. And the Brookings Institution is unveiling a slate of new measures meant to make the government more effective, including a carbon tax that could raise $1.5 trillion over ten years. All that follows a cascade of carbon-tax advocacy in recent days from the chattering classes and a slate of academic work over the summer (not to mention our own two cents).
The idea of a carbon tax is simple: Put a price tag on the harmful emissions from fossil fuels, such as oil and coal, and use the revenues to fund clean-energy development, pay down the deficit or slash taxes. Proponents often describe it as a win-win-win policy, because carbon taxes would penalize things that are bad (pollution) and lower taxes on things that are good (labor and capital).
"The time seems ripe for this discussion. The president is committed both to raising tax revenue and to dealing with climate change. A carbon tax kills two birds with one stone," said Gregory Mankiw, a Harvard economist who advised the Romney campaign and has long pushed for more efficient taxation, including a carbon tax.
Read the full post on Washington Wire.


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Lindy Ruff has agreed to terms with the Dallas Stars.
Mikko Koivu is too sick to play in Sunday's match with the Predators.
Evgeni Malkin lifted his point streak to seven games during Sunday's 5-1 win over the Bruins.
Tuukka Rask left midway through Sunday's match against the Penguins because he wasn't feeling well.
J.T. Miller put Mat Zuccarello's overtime feed home on Sunday to beat the Red Wings by a score of 1-0.
Henrik Lundqvist picked up his second shutout of the season as the Rangers beat the Red Wings 1-0 in overtime on Sunday.
Patrik Laine (concussion) won't play in Monday's match with the Ducks.
Jared Coreau will start Sunday afternoon's game against the Rangers.
John Tavares scored a power play goal Saturday in a 4-2 win over the Kings.
Jordan Eberle continues to put a slump behind him, most emphatically doing so on Saturday with a four-point output in the Edmonton Oilers' 7-3 win against the Calgary Flames.
Edmonton Oilers goalie Laurent Brossoit got his first career NHL win, and it happened against the team he drafted him, as Edmonton defeated the Calgary Flames 7-3 on Saturday.
John Gibson left Saturday's eventual 5-3 loss for the Anaheim Ducks vs. the Minnesota Wild when a puck caught him up high early in the first period.


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Skip to comments.Rob Bell, Homosexuality, and the New Cultural Acceptance
Posted on 03/23/2013 2:11:02 PM PDT by BurningOak
With that said and meant, this shift is altogether unsurprising. The new mark of being culturally acceptable is affirming homosexuality as virtuous (not merely okay, but virtuous, even exemplary). This is the litmus test. I dont think many of us expected that it would so quickly fill this role, but it has. The mark of being a progressive, kind, socially courageous person today is simply this: affirming same-sex marriage. There are other cardinal virtues of a contemporary au courant identity, but this is the lodestar, the one that hangs ones personal moon.
This shows us that the cultural middle is indeed vanishing. The space where broad-minded people could hang out is rapidly disappearing. Either you are for same-sex marriage or not. If youre not, and youre a known commodity, youre now behind the curve in a public, image-driven sense. Expect in coming days to see a veritable torrent of declarations of affirmation of SSM. Celebrities, news anchors, intellectuals, politicians, religious types, tycoons, and many more are heading to the pro-marriage exits. Theyre going to be calling press conferences as quickly as they can. Theyll be getting into line with the value that drives the New Cultural Acceptance: affirming same-sex marriage.
(Excerpt) Read more at cbmw.org ...
Hard to believe how far we have come in just 10 years since a bare majority of the Massachusetts Supreme Court took the great leap forward at the end of 2003...
I will never be a progressive, kind, socially courageous person today or any other day.
I have nothing against Homosexuals as long as they leave me and mine alone.
One of them touches me or my kid and he better be ready to rumble.
They are sick mentally ill people and it is a sin to allow them to call anything they do a marriage.
Excellent post.
Just because the media generally and hollywood accept Queerdom does not mean it's generally accepted by most of the people..
The media is ultra left wing.. but "the people" are not..
Most the likely the opposite of what the media "IS FOR" the people are against..
Which demands media propaganda.. to "queer" the issue..
And then GOD laughed...
Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
Wow, Rob Bell is calling for people to repent? If I had to guess, I'd say he rejects the whole concept because "Love Wins" and everyone ends up in Heaven. . .right Rob? However, it's predictable coming from Bell because he's calling on people to "repent" from believing in the Bible.
I'm sure this will keep the pieces of silver rolling in from the itchy-eared people who want to delude themselves that they're Christians. Believe and be obedient or don't waste your time folks.
Either you are for same-sex marriage or not. If youre not, and youre a known commodity, youre now behind the curve in a public, image-driven sense.
I could care less what the public thinks of my opinion, I care what the public thinks of my opinion, I care about what the Lord thinks.
Once again liberals show their ignorance. We don't hate fellow human beings, but we DO NOT have to accept everything they do.
What truly bothers me is the liberal hypocrisy. They want the unacceptable to look acceptable, another feel good project for votes. Same thing with African Americans. We'll give you 40 acres and a mule, just vote for us and we'll help you. That was 148 yrs ago, and they are still living in poverty and hoping for freedom.
I do not accept homosexuality, and I never will. It doesn't mean I hate the person, just the act itself. It is an abomination. I just hope the feel good crowd has a good explaination when they come face to face with the Lord. He isn't going to give them a vote on the subject.
-- commonly attributed to Martin Luther
One day people are going to be made to realize again that homosexuality is in fact a disease by the simple product of its hindrance of normal and essential biological function.
Bell is a nut. He has basically repudiated the Bible.
He did that years ago when he advocated universalism. He, Mclaren and the whole "emergent" movement just offer up recycled liberalism.
Silent Majority become the Silent Minority.
People should have seen it coming.
I am against homosexuality & abortion. Those are the sins. I do believe that people are attracted to persons of the same sex but that doesn't mean they must have a sexual relationship. They can be chaste by making a choice and exercising discipline. Even living in the same house is not a sin, but it might be a temptation needing to be avoided. Society tell us that sexuality is the end all be all. It is not. There are many choices to make in life. For Christians who love God and their neighbor as themselves, first and foremost is not to sin.
Abortion is murder. There are other solutions but the world has said that we should choose sin because it is easier. They leave out the easier but more painful part. Again, disciplining ourselves to saving a sexual relationship for the marriage bed is the right choice. But when faced with an unwanted pregnancy, it doesn't mean the baby(tissue to the world) is unwanted. Respect the life and honor God by making the right choices. Two wrongs don't make a right. Give the precious baby a life with someone who respects its sacred creation as a child of God
Wordly homosexuals & abortionist can't separate the sin from the sinner so they lump them together & say all have rights. Jesus died to save the sinner. Once that gift of eternal love & grace is accepted the sin needs to be dealt with It is possible to love the sinner & hate the sin. You don't have to agree with what they & the world think is best.
We need to follow Jesus, not Rob Bell, Joel Osteen, John Calvin, Rick Warren, our Senators, celebraties.... Jesus is the Way.. The thoughts of great men might help us see the way but only as they are examined in light of scripture. Jesus is our Saviour & our only Hope.
If you believe this you either aren't paying attention or have intentionally buried your head in the sand.
Once upon a time, not even that many years ago, what you say was true. Today, it's a whole new ballgame. Polling is increasingly showing wide majorities in favor of gay marriage. 10 years ago people would have opposed letting open gays in the military, today they support it. There is a reason you don't hear conservatives talking about repealing the law allowing homo's in armed forces. We now have a president that ran supporting homo-marriage and he won - despite having utterly failed economically. Gay marriage and gay rights used to be a winning issue for conservatives, is increasingly a loser. The media, Hollywierd and the entertainment establishments succeeded at changing American's opinion on this issue.
"we need to repent."
Rob Bell says we need to repent. He's right in general, but why? If he bases our need to repent on anything in the Bible, then he has to face other parts of the Bible that are inconvenient to his point of view. Why does Rob Bell get to pick and choose? Liberal Christianity is as stupid as liberal anything. It's a house of cards that cannot hold up under the weight of its own contradictions.
I think The homosexual agenda is a fad at the moment with little to no long term legs. for the simple reason that "Gay marriage" makes no sense and serves no constructive(family) propose to justify its burden on either the parties or sociology.
At the end of the day whether liberals and their victims choose to acknowledged this fact or not Homosexuality is a diseases.
The gays knew what they were doing back in the 1960s when they began their assault on the entire media and entertainment industry, slowly but surely, they gained a foothold....and now they've gained enough power that basically acceptance of their lifestyle is the main litmus test in gaining employment in those industries.
Liberal chrislanity is and always has been a dying religion because if you accept the tenets of liberalism than Christianity falls apart.
This is why churches that compromise die, where as the largest & most successful churches are the most devout.
Most people, most of the time, especially in a democratic society, will tend to go along with what they think most of their peers believe in.
20 years ago one had to beat against the current to be pro-gay. I was recently reading a late-60s John D. MacDonald noval, and the hero casually expressed anti-gay and lesbian attitudes that were utterly unexceptional at the time. Orson Scott Card is presently being boycotted because he expressed much less negative attitudes in print 20 years ago.
A year or two ago we were probably at 50/50. The trend is only in one direction, and as it gets harder to be anti, fewer people will be willing to fess up to such a hateful opinion.
This is, BTW, exactly what happened with regard to racism. Such a belief system is acceptable in very few places in American society today. Which is an example of this dynamic working in a positive way.
The pro-gay groups have succeeded in equating a belief that homosexual activity is sinful with racism, an example of the dynamic working negatively. IMO.
Very true, and it looks like gay marriage is the issue that has caused the most push-back. Even in mainline churches it's the congregations that stick to orthodox teachings that are thriving.
The progressives have had a field day in destroying our churches, government, and culture for almost 100 years. They have managed to replace the church with government. Personally, I think the church has to be retaken before anything worthwhile happens in the other two.
Simply point out how their lifestyle hold not even the theoretical possibility of reproduction and the whole house of cards falls apart.
The homosexual life style is a dead end proposition and thus ultimately self-destructive.
Getting our civilization to recognize that biological fact will also require that we focus on the pillars of civilization namely having larger genetically healthy families(children).
We do that in our argument process we can turn the tide not only on the homosexual agenda but the fall of our own civilization. We do it not, our civilization will collapse demographically to the point where those that survive will be at least personalty predisposed to our position anyway.
Frankly we can't lose, in the long run, because they can't or won't procreate.
Simply point out how their lifestyle hold not even the theoretical possibility of reproduction and the whole house of cards falls apart.
The homosexual life style is a dead end proposition and thus ultimately self-destructive.
Getting our civilization to recognize that biological fact will also require that we focus on the pillars of civilization namely having larger genetically healthy family sizes(more than 3 children).
We do that in our argument process we can turn the tide not only on the homosexual agenda but the fall of our own civilization. We do it not, our civilization will collapse demographically to the point where those that survive will be at least personalty predisposed their self-destructive position anyway.
Frankly we can't lose, in the long run, because they can't or won't procreate.
"Very true, and it looks like gay marriage is the issue that has caused the most push-back. Even in mainline churches its the congregations that stick to orthodox teachings that are thriving.
The progressives have had a field day in destroying our churches, government, and culture for almost 100 years. They have managed to replace the church with government. Personally, I think the church has to be retaken before anything worthwhile happens in the other two."
You may be right about that, although to be perfectly clear this is really a race to save as many churches as we can, not so much prevent leftism from inflitrating every church.
Leftist churches that abandon the writen word of God and embrace the abomination of homosexuality will die on their own from their own contradiction undermining their moral foundation in the minds of heir parishioners. (To say nothing from the homosexual union's inherit inability to procreate.)
Just remember we are in a race to save as many churches as possible.
Well when they put homosexual advocates in every school and push any kid that doesn't fall in line it was bound to happen.
But it won't last either it will die or our civilization will die taking this embrace of dis-function with it.
The real tragity is the destruction of the institution of marriage as the bond of real families, instead of just one of a thousand legal tools that now have little to no meaning.
If the word is applied to unions of men or of women it will most clearly no longer be associated with its propose of producing children.
But instead with a set of restrictions that are unnecessary for a union now defined simply by a feeling. In other-words All that defines marriage as a meaningful will be gone among the people that subscribe to this idea.
The next great movement will be the lowering of the age of consent to the old Common Law age of 12 years. A twelve year old is a Sodomites delight!
sounds like you might have been reading some Travis McGee. I recently watched the movie Serial. I was struck by how much Hollywood has changed in 35 years. The main characters openly laugh about the gay motorcycle gang, and reference "interior decorator jokes." The kid says shocking things about his "Gay Bruce" doll. A gay hairdresser is portrayed in a very stereotypical way.
In the beginning there was right and wrong, and we have been compromising in the WRONG direction ever since.
Washington State has approved gay marriage and legalized marijuana in a recent decision.
Gay marriage & marijuana being legalized on the same day makes sense now.
Go to Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with another man he should be stoned."
We were just interpreting it wrong.
Actually those that embrace homosexual unions are a known commodity's.
What the left really want for homosexuals is acceptance of their perverted and sinful lifestyles as a "normal relationship". This is what their campaign is all about as we have known from the beginning.
It is vital that we forever commit ourselves to the condemnation of such relationships as self-destructive, sinful, and perverted.
Just what I came here to post...
And yet, approximately 700,000 tubal sterilizations are performed in the United States each year. A tubal ligation is the most popular form of contraception worldwide--- and, like homosexuality, sex after sterilization does not hold even the theoretical possibility of reproduction.
If heteros can deliberately choose sterile intercourse --- unnatural sex --- so can gays and lesbians.
That's what they say.
And there's a certain logic consistency there. People across the board --- gay and straight --- have largely chosen against natural sex the way God made it.
I must say, the Catholic Church is the only group I know which has a coherent teaching on this.
However, a teaching which is hardly taught.
We still haven't full adjusted to the entire country being run by the black 13% of the population who have the wealthy and powerful bowing and grovelling at their slightest (but continuous) whining and complaining.
Now it looks like we will have to adjust to the queer 1% of the country taking over the reins of power and dictating to the other 310 million of us how to live, think and act.
I will never say homosexuality is anything but an abomination and I will never say homosexual "marriage" is a right and I will never say teaching children homosexuality is healthy.
God help us. Surely the end (of America, at least) is near.
I never heard of "Rob Bell" before he gave his opinion on gay marriage, and I could care less what he thinks.
Why does anyone care what Rob Bell thinks? Several years ago my Sunday School class had a series of his videos. I remember thinking at the time he was a nut case. I was surprised my church, a conservative Southern Baptist congregation, even was using his material. Must have been on sale.
AMEN to that.
Have you noticed though that they become more solicitous toward LGBT when election time comes around. They are the very face of hypocrisy.
People are frightened. They saw what happened in terms of those who supported Proposition 8, in terms of their jobs and businesses being threatened and having their homes put on maps for homosexuals to target. They see Christian organizations being thrown of campuses and students being punished for holding a bible study or objecting to Jesus' Name literally being desecrated and stomped on.
The homosexual activists know exactly what they are doing. Once they have homosexual "marriage" in place they will start going after the churches who refuse to perform them.
I do not see homosexuality as a disease, it is a sin, and with Jesus it can be overcome like all other sin. Repenting will not cure you of cancer.
A good read, maybe a bit premature when it comes to mainstream America, but not in regards to academia, the media and pop culture. One thing is for certain. Homosexuals and gay marriage won't bear the weight of virtue or courage. People may be demagoged and persuaded by pop culture that gay marriage is about love and honorable relationships, but the coarse and perverted nature of homosexuality will bring down that illusion when it is no longer necessary.
The momentum is frightening, the squishy middle has decided that marriage is a sinking ship and is jumping overboard. Gingrich, Laura Bush, and the Ohio Senator are just the beginning. Anyone who is not sure of where he stands will take the road of less resistance and cross over.
That battle was lost half a century ago with the introduction of the pill, effectively divorcing sex from reproduction. 99% of people fornicate before marriage, most women married and not take birth control, Roe is now 40, the Biblical idea that sex = children is basically dead and buried in a pit with 50 million aborted babies.
It begins by asking toleration. Its friends say to the majority: You need not be afraid of us; we are few and weak; only let us alone; we shall not disturb the faith of others. The Church has her standards of doctrine; of course we shall never interfere with them; we only ask for ourselves to be spared interference with our private opinions.
Indulged in this for a time, error goes on to assert equal rights. Truth and error are two balancing forces. The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. We are to agree to differ and any favoring of the truth, because it is truth, is partisanship. What the friends of truth and error hold in common is fundamental. Anything on which they differ is ipso facto non-essential. Anybody who makes account of such a thing is a disturber of the peace of the church. Truth and error are two co-ordinate powers, and the great secret of church-statesmanship is to preserve the balance between them.
From this point error soon goes on to its natural end, which is to assert supremacy. Truth started with tolerating; it comes to be merely tolerated and that only for a time. Error claims a preference for its judgments on all disputed points. It puts men into position, not as at first in spite of their departure from the Churchs faith, but in consequence of it. Their recommendation is that they repudiate that faith, and position is given them to teach others to repudiate it, and make them skillful in combating it." (pp. 195-196)
From: THE CONSERVATIVE REFORMATION AND ITS THEOLOGY as represented in the Augsburg Confession and in the history and literature of the Evangelical Lutheran Church by Charles P. Krauth, D.D. (1871). [Note date]
Fortunately, it's not the most important issue on America's agenda. More and more, people are going to learn that the Democratic Party's economic, budgetary and taxing theories are garbage, that Democratic Party legislative initiatives such as Obamacare destroy jobs and destroy any incentive to create jobs.
The stark reality of defaulting on $150,000 worth of student loans without being able to find a job for more than 29 hours a week, or more than minimum wage, and living in their mothers' basements with absolutely no hope of any change on the horizon, provides fertile soil for us among younger voters.
After they graduate from Socialism State University, and find out the reality of the Great Obama Depression, we need to reach out and take them. They are ours.
Oh, one other thing.
We need to stop talking about the spiritual consequences of sodomy and start talking about the medical consequences. The reduced life expectancy among homosexuals, by a margin of several years. The increased incidence of STDs and rectal cancer, and other diseases among homosexuals, and what that means.
The increased incidence of alcoholism, drug addiction and domestic violence among homosexuals. And what THAT means.
And the revelation that legalizing gay marriage won't do anything to improve those numbers — because we'll have statistics from states where gay marriage has been legal for 10 years, and the bad stuff that homosexuals do to themselves, and each other, will still be happening with the same destructive frequency.
Sadly too, the Lutheran Church is very anti-Luther today.
Praise God for allowing us to walk in the footsteps of our Christian ancestors.
Bell's been doing that his entire career. He's a hipster demon.
Considering that some of the most fervent faith and richest commentary on the Scriptures came from the ante-Nicene fathers-—not a bad thing.
Who is Rob Bell?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.


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Resource Type: Book Chapter
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The Functional Ontology of Filmic Documents
Date: 2007
Creator: Anderson, Richard L.; O'Connor, Brian Clark & Kearns, Jodi L.
Description: This book chapter discusses the functional ontology of filmic documents. The authors examine a few phases of probing of filmic documents, and the relationship between structure and meaning. The authors have taken the liberty of sketching the earlier phases and of presenting the most recent in somewhat more detail. Considerations of the early phases, among other issues of document use, led to the functional ontology construction as a foundation for this probing and for wider concerns within the arena of messages, meanings, and uses.
Contributing Partner: UNT College of Information
Assessing Interoperability in the Networked Environment: Standards, Evaluation, and Testbeds in the Context of Z39.50
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About the Author: Chad A. West serves in the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs.
The Binational Center (BNC) in Cochabamba, Bolivia recently honored 28 of its John F. Kennedy Scholars during an August 7 workshop entitled "Manos de Desarrollo" ("Hands for Development"). The students were able to participate in group building activities, share ideas, and meet with Chargé d' Affaires, Ambassador James Creagan. The activities were all part of the BNC's efforts to recognize the efforts of the JFK Scholars to develop their English-language and leadership skills.
The JFK Scholars program is just one of many English-language programs conducted overseas. These programs have the ability to dramatically improve opportunities for their participants, and perhaps no other public diplomacy activity has such a powerful impact on improving the image of the United States abroad. In Bolivia, English programs are especially effective in reaching traditionally underserved minority communities. The JFK Scholars in Cochabamba receive English classes, course materials, and even local transportation expenses to ensure that they are able to attend their courses and complete the three-year program. Many of the students are able to access information about the United States that was previously unavailable to them. Their desire to learn more about the United States was evident during the workshop.
Speaking to the JFK Scholars, Ambassador Creagan congratulated the students for being motivated to study the English language and American culture, and then spoke about the importance of leadership, using President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as examples during momentous times in American history. From there, the ambassador moved directly into a question and answer session with the students. The students were a bit shy. No one seemed to want to be the first to throw out a question, but it was not long before the group was engaged in conversation. The discussion covered various topics from the types of food one can find in Texas to the ambassador's opinion on life in Bolivia. The final question came from a young woman who wanted to know the ambassador's perspective on the state of relations between the United States and Bolivia. Ambassador Creagan responded that while the general relationship is very strained at the moment, it is important for both sides to keep looking for avenues of cooperation on issues of mutual interest.
Before the workshop concluded, the students broke into small groups for discussion on a series of questions, including "What does it mean to be a young person in Bolivia?" and "What needs to change in Bolivia?" Each group made brief presentations to the larger group. Despite their youth, they had an intimate grasp of the challenges most adversely affecting Bolivia today. One group noted that "Bolivia must rid itself of official corruption to promote social and economic development." The exercise was the most successful part of the workshop, with every student showing a deep interest in the views of the other participants and a genuine appreciation for the diversity of opinions expressed.
Many U.S. embassies can point to stories like this as evidence of the impact of our English-language programs. These programs provide recipients with an important first step, whether they pursue higher education in the United States or their home countries, seek employment in the private sector, or venture to become small business owners. Learning English is a vital skill for anyone living in the modern world, and it ensures that intercultural communication continues successfully.
Related Entry: Binational Centers in Latin America Promote Mutual Understanding


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Beach move is worth a closer look
With kids out of school and temps in the 80s, this is the time of year when swimming at a local beach becomes part of a local family's daily routine. It's especially so in this muggy summer. If you have elementary-school-aged kids, it's almost essential. These places are also important because they're where much of the important inter-family socialization takes place: parents chatting while kids play.
The beaches on Mirror Lake, Little Wolf Pond, Lake Colby, Lake Clear and Lake Everest, and swimming holes like the Flume and the Jay rocks – these are natural and essential infrastructure for Adirondack residents.
Unsurprisingly, people have strong feelings about them. In Saranac Lake, when village leaders moved the beach from Lake Flower to Lake Colby in the 1970s, many never forgave them and never stopped calling for it to be moved back.
After all these decades, those calls have picked up momentum again lately. That's partly due to Facebook – a "Lake Flower Beach Return" group has more than 3,000 members – and also to current village leadership. Paul Van Cott, a relatively new village trustee, has fond memories of swimming at the Lake Flower beach that drive him to pursue the matter.
Earlier this week, the village board voted to seek bids for a study of moving the beach back, including a cost-benefit analysis. The study's cost would be paid by the Lake Flower Beach Return group, which reportedly has raised more than $4,000 so far for that purpose, and possibly by the village as well.
If so many thousands of people want this, elected leaders should get the facts they need to give it serious consideration – especially if the advocates are willing to pay to get those facts. This study is worth a few thousand dollars.
We're not ready yet, however, to say the beach should be moved. We hope the study is unbiased, and we'll wait to see what it turns up.
There are pluses and minuses on both sides.
Those pushing this effort are right in saying the Lake Colby beach is weedier, windier and too far out on the edge of the village. We've heard many kids – whose judgment should be taken seriously in such matters – say they just don't like swimming in Lake Colby very much.
Plenty still use it, but many parents feel that if they have to pack the kids in the car anyway, they might as well go the extra 8 miles to the state beach at Lake Clear. That's where many Saranac Lake families meet.
On the other side are many who say the Lake Flower beach, in its heyday, was too small and crowded, and too close to the road. Cars would whiz by and cast dirt and exhaust toward swimmers, and that was when River Street was just two lanes wide. The catalyst for moving the beach was that the state made River Street to a four-lane highway – which, in hindsight, was unnecessary and detrimental in separating the community from its lakeshore. Nevertheless, the state has no plan to turn the clock back on that.
Other reasons:
-There's no parking by the Lake Flower beach site. The old days were not like today. Kids then would often walk to of the Lake Flower beach in the morning, unaccompanied by adults, only have to be home by dinnertime. Parents are no longer so carefree. Now they drive their families to the beach, and visitors drive, too. Some want the state to turn one lane of River Street into parking, which would be great but unlikely. It would be long in coming if it did happen, and wouldn't produce many spots anyway.
-Lake Flower is far from clean, or quiet. It was, for generations, a village dumping ground, and the detritus of an old coal gasification plant still pollutes it. It was considered unsafe even as a backup, treated source of village drinking water. It also is busy with motorboats and personal watercraft. Lake Colby, by contrast, has clean, spring-fed water and has a 10-horsepower limit on motors.
None of these points is new. The study will hopefully consider them and many others, and weigh the costs versus the benefits. If it's not too expensive to move the beach and the pros seem to significantly outweigh the cons, then sure. It seems unlikely, though, that a good study would ringingly endorse either option. It's controversial because it's a tough call.


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Share Your Orders Thread
Well, Teavana got me because I do love the Fig Rose, it's an heavy herbal, so a large discounted sale was too good to pass up. Also picked up another herbal that was on sale that I haven't tried and a cheap tin. And for some unknown reason I got free shipping.
TEA: Berry Almond Amaretti R Tea 2OZ 3.60
TEA: Fig Rose Tea 4OZ 8.00
TIN: 6OZ: Logo Silver 1.13
I've been overdue for an order for months, so it was easy for me to spend $40.
Caramel Vanilla Assam
Foxy Roxy's Banana Walnut Treat
Ruby Pie
With Open Eyes
1991 Da Ye Aged Oolong (1 ounce)
Rose Violet Calendula Oolong
= $40.49
OMG $15 in free tea for me!
peppermint patty
pineapple cilantro cream
birthday cake
a couple pu'er tuochas
Awwwww, yeah – just did a split order with Kittenna, Sil, and Indigobloom for Butiki Teas!
Happy Birthday Stacy!
We are splitting:
-2 oz caramel vanilla assam
-2 oz ruby pie
-1 oz raspberry truffle
-2 oz peppermint patty
-1 oz with open eyes
-4 oz rootbeer honeybush
-40g birthday cake
-1 oz. maple pecan
It came to $85.49, so we have $25 worth of free tea. :D
Awww yeaaaaah! We are awesome! Indigobloom is also a teeny bit in on the split, haha :)
Oh that's cool! A 4-way split, and just enough tea to last us until Black Friday!
I'm adding this to my new Excel sheet so I can track what's on it's way. :D (And who's holding it for me)
Infused1 – not up on the website yet, as with the birthday cake one. Stacy posted on her FB for those of us who harass her about her new blends that we could order it. If you send her a note she may be able to help you out….otherwise there is always the next sale! :)
ok NOW no more tea buying, I'd been wanting to order more from Butiki for months so a sale was highly influencing.
1/2 oz Peppermint Patty
1 oz Caramel Vanilla Assam (I HAVE BEEN WANTING IT FOR SO LONG AGH)
1 oz Foxy Roxy's Banana Walnut Treat
1 oz Peach Hoppitea
1 oz Ruby Pie
1/2 oz With Open Eyes
1 oz Three Friends
and then bonus tea
20g Birthday Cake
1 oz English Breakfast
1 oz Rootbeer Honeybush
no more tea for a long time especially when I'm sitting here drinking coffee. I figured I could treat yoself for having my first legitimate shift at Starbucks today and not crying and woooo I get paid tomorrow
Haha, welcome to Bux! :D Congrats on being barista now. Those learning videos are brutal, so boring. xD I've been a partner two years now. Café store or drive-thru? :) I work at a drive-thru store myself. Wishing it was just a café, but that would mean less hours, so… Can't complain too much. :)
haha yeah, it's not really my learning style to just be thrown into things but really in this job there's not much else you can do. No drive thru here, I was promised 20 a week to start but next week I have about 12.5 so hopefully it picks up a bit. The only real fear I have is not remembering all these people because it is a LOT of regulars. I have figured out one guy's drink after two days though because it's pretty unique compared to just a brewed coffee haha.
A thread concerning ordering on ebay prompted me to purchase two teas from the Royal Tea Bay Co. in China: a 2011 Yunnan Iceland Village Raw Puer (100 gr), and a Yunnan Shu (cooked) puer which is a combination of leaves from 2006 and 2009 blended by the Nanpu Tea Factory in a 100 gram cake. I took the auction route for these, and am looking forward to trying them.
Just ordered the "Global Treasures Gift Set" from Teavana, first time ordering from them.
I figured why not for 224g of tea for 19.99 with 4 canisters.
Also for some reason I wasn't charged tax or shipping, works for me! :)
Fate had me reading the discussion section last night, and I saw the 1 day sale at Butiki. I couldn't resist and ended up with:
Maple Pecan Oolong 4 oz (The best tea ever)
Grapefruit Dragon 1/2 oz
Caramel Vanilla Assam 1 oz
Traditional Plum Pudding 1 oz
Coconut Cream Pie Rooibos 1 oz
Potato Pancakes and Applesauce 1 oz
Honeybush 1 oz
Peppermint Patty 1 oz
I really wish I'd known there was a Rootbeer Honeybush available, though. It sounds awesome.
Just send Stacy an email! She said it might take a few days to process the order – I'm sure she could accommodate you!
Stacy's generally pretty awesome about things like that! Seem great things in your basket :)
Uhh, I got sucked into the Butiki sale. My browser refused to update the sale prices, so I didn't get any Peppermint Patty to try in case it totally mucked up the price. As it is, the Caramel Vanilla Assam came up with the sale price in my invoice. Sorry Stacy!
Grandpa's Anytime Tea 1 oz
So Long, and Thanks for All the Licorice 2 oz
With Open Eyes 1 oz
Birthday Cake, medium size
Watermelon Xylophone 1 oz
Organic Imperial Gunpowder 1 oz (new tea to try!)
Caramel Vanilla Assam 1 oz
Rootbeer Honeybush, small size
With shipping to Canadia it's just over $50 for this.
/sigh/ So I fell off my hiatus wagon. /hangs head/ Verdant just put up a 25% off all their teaware this week and I've been wanting that Lotus gaiwan & cup so bad that I caved, along with some teas. >>; Sample sizes of all the teas, though I was so close to getting the 1oz of Laoshan Black Chocolate Genmaicha since it sounded so good. I was bummed that the Sun Dried Jingshan Green was out of stock since I was wanting that, but maybe I'll pick it up in a swap or when it comes back in stock.
And I ended up adding two green teas and a white tea I wasn't really planning on getting to get free shipping, since I'd rather have tea than packaging. Lol.
Laoshan Roasted Oolong
Yu Lu Yan Cha Black
Imperial Breakfast Summer Blend
Eight Treasures Yabao
Vanilla Citrus Spice
Spring Harvest Laoshan Green
Laoshan Black Chocolate Genmaicha
Bai Mu Dan White Tea
Jingdezhen Tall Lotus Gaiwan
Jingdezhen Red Lotus Tea Cup
Subtotal: $51.00
$10 Voucher: -$10.00
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Order Total: $41.00
Made an order yesterday for the peach jasmine pearls from Teavivre's anniversary sale. Added a few other things to the order that were on my shopping list. During checkout there was a problem, paypal said the payment was sent but the Teavivre website said there was an error and the order did not go through. I emailed them and the problem was solved within the day. They sent me an apology, added 300 extra points to my account and ensured the order went out in the mail that day! I love Teavivre!
Peach? Oh man, that sounds tasty.
Glad the paypal thing got resolved. That sounds like a headache to deal with.


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iHerb Commentaires des clients
Économie de: €11.09 (44 % de remise)
Publié par Reviewer3167470 le Mar 14, 2009
These are supposed to help with the pain in my knees. I can't really say I've noticed a difference.
Now foods Boswellin
Publié par Reviewer1231821 le Jan 14, 2009
It gave me a couple of migraines, so I had to stop taking it.
Messes with my bowels
Publié par Reviewer2846445 le Jun 13, 2015
I purchased this to help with the healing of a sciatic injury where I had torn the ligaments around my hip and messed with the nerve in the process. Unfortunately every time I take it, it upsets my bowels which results in repeated trips to the toilet in a short space of time (totally not normal for me). The toilet is cruel on an injury like mine and I ended up in much worse pain as a result. It's not worth the setback that this was creating so I am putting this aside for now and may consider it for other inflammatory conditions, but not for this one.
Publié par 5210020084934959616 le Jan 02, 2017
I bought it for my mother...she takes it for 2 months now...for a pain in her spine...We will see if it helps her...
Alan Waldron
Publié par Reviewer1564539 le Feb 27, 2008
Sadly I suffered a t.i.a. the days following the start of the treatment and was fesrful that they may have been a contributory factor so have put them to one side
articles 1-5 sur 5


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Topic: Need help with 10.3 Michael Hartl's rails 3 toutorial
I am trying to create an index action and view for the User model.
In my users controller the index action is defined as:
def index
@title = "All users"
@users = User.all
And in the index.html.erb:
<ul class="users">
<% @users.each do |user| %>
<%= gravatar_for user, :size => 30 %>
<%= link_to user.name, user %>
<% end %>
When I launch it in the browser I get an undefined method error:
undefined method `email' for nil:NilClass
I know gravatar_for searches its first parabiter for the value of the :email key so I am almost sure this is where it locks up. I tried
firing it up in the rails console.
>> users = User.all
returns an array of all my users
but when I try to itterate through all of them
>> users.each do |u|
>> u.firstName
>> end
it shows no out put and the return is the same as above
I would greatly appriciate any help I am almost done with this toutorial and am really looking forward to learning the more creative aspects of rails.
Hope all is well
Last edited by tystick86 (2011-03-18 03:15:24)


text:
Campaign 2012 Social Media ScorecardOctober 27, 2011 Campaign 2012, Internet, politics, social media, Washington DC, White House 5 Comments
As the 2012 presidential campaign continues to heat up, Election Day 2011 is just around the corner. In less than twelve days, Americans will head to the polls on Tuesday, November 8th to cast votes for various state and local candidates. And, we'll be almost exactly one year away from voting to determine whether President Obama will serve a second term.
This morning, I had the pleasure of speaking at the Holmes Report's ThinkTank Live event here in Washington, DC where I discussed the evolving media landscape and the role of social media in shaping politics and public policy. In preparation, I got to thinking about how social media was impacting the election process this early in the race. Between the Romney-Perry video battles and the buzz around Herman Cain's "smoking" ad featuring his chief of staff Mark Block, it was a perfect week to perform a little deeper analysis.


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Debates of Nov. 21st, 1996
House of Commons Hansard #104 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was children.
- Point Of Order
- Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples
- Government Response To Petitions
- Credit Card Interest Calculation Act
- Committees Of The House
- Petitions
- Questions On The Order Paper
- Questions Passed As Orders For Returns
- Supply
- Elaine Pomajba
- Kenworth Plant Workers
- John Munro
- Government Of Prince Edward Island
- Royal Commission On Aboriginal People
- Ben Powell Sr.
- Osteoporosis
- Mining
- Parliamentary Matching Program
- Copyright Legislation
- Mining
- Justice
- Industry Canada
- Canadian Council For Refugees
- Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples
- Canadian Embassies
- Montreal International
- Native Peoples
- Tobacco
- Capital Gains
- Aboriginal Affairs
- Capital Gains
- Research And Development
- Government Contracts
- Francophones Outside Quebec
- Taxation
- Income Tax
- Canada Post Corporation
- Atlantic Groundfish Strategy
- Indian Affairs
- Points Of Order
- Business Of The House
- Supply
- Supplementary Estimates (A)
- Citizenship Act
Point Of Order
November 21st, 1996 / 10 a.m.
The Speaker
Colleagues, I am now ready to rule on the point of order raised by the chief government whip on November 4, 1996 concerning the admissibility of the motion moved by the hon. member for Crowfoot with regard to Bill C-234, an act to amend the Criminal Code.
I thank the Chief Government Whip, the hon. member for St. Albert and the hon. member for Crowfoot for their views on this matter.
The text of the motion is as follows:
That, no later than the conclusion of Routine Proceedings on the tenth sitting day after the adoption of this motion, Bill C-234, an act to amend the Criminal Code, shall be deemed reported back to the House without amendment.
The chief government whip challenged the admissibility of the motion. There are two aspects to the argument that he presented. First, that the hon. member for Crowfoot did not have the right to move this motion on the rubric Motions in Routine Proceedings. Second, that the motion represented an attempt to interfere improperly with the committee's proceedings on the bill.
In support of the contention that the hon. member for Crowfoot should not move his motion during Routine Proceedings, the Chief Government Whip referred to the rulings of May 30, 1928, May 11, 1944, May 2, 1961 and April 28, 1982. I want to assure the House that, in examining this matter, I have taken these precedents into account. The Chief Government Whip also referred to Speaker Fraser's ruling, at page 17506 of the Debates of July 13, 1998, in which he stated that Routine Proceedings are not the exclusive purview of the governement. As I noted in my ruling of September 23, 1996, I am in agreement with the view of Speaker Fraser.
I would like now to turn to the second aspect of the chief government whip's presentation in which he claimed that the motion, particularly the words "without amendment", would constitute an improper interference with the proceedings of the committee and would violate the conditions set down in my ruling of September 23, 1996.
As members may recall, in my ruling on page 4561 of the Debates I indicated:
-the Chair may well accept, after due notice, such a motion, on the condition that it is strictly limited to the terms of the committal of a bill to a committee and that it is not an attempt to interfere with the committee's proceedings thereon. In so doing, the House would have an opportunity to determine whether the bill should remain in committee or be reported back.
The Chief Governement Whip argued that the motion was a clear attempt to interfere improperly with the committee's proceedings on the bill, that it would order the committee to complete its study, and that the committee could not amend the bill. I must disagree with the hon. members's interpretation of the terms of the motion.
The motion as it stands on the Order Paper does not interfere with the committee's ability to complete its consideration of Bill C-235 and report it back with or without amendment. The motion does not require the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs to complete its study of Bill C-234 by a certain time.
The motion moved by the hon. member for Crowfoot in fact provides the committee with a period of time in which to consider and report the bill if it so chooses. At the same time, the motion provides the House with a mechanism to remove the bill, which is its property, from the committee so that the House itself can take up consideration of the bill.
In fact, such a mechanism is not unusual to our practices. Standing Order 81(4), dealing with the referral of the main estimates to committee, states that the committee shall report, or shall be deemed to have reported back to the House not later than May 31.
As the matter now stands, the committee has not reported the bill. Speaker Francis noted in a ruling at page 3963 in the Debates of May 23, 1984:
The Chair can hardly be aware of what is taking place in the committee without a report from the committee.
This is also noted in May's 21st edition at page 500:
The House is not formally aware of the detailed proceedings of any committee until the bill has been reported.
The House does not know what has occurred in committee and, consequently, cannot know what amendments the committee has made to the bill. Therefore, if the House wishes to, once again, take possession of the bill, then the inclusion of the words "without amendment" establishes clearly that the House will be dealing with the text of the bill it adopted at second reading.
This can be the only logical course that the House can follow and it has been done in the past. I would refer hon. members to the motion adopted on March 22, 1995, pursuant to Standing Order 78(2), with regard to Bill C-77, an act to provide for the maintenance of railway operations and subsidiary services. This motion, to be found at pages 1259-60 of the Journals , stated in part:
-if the Bill [was] not reported from the committee during Routine Proceedings on March 23, 1995, the Bill [would], at the conclusion of Routine Proceedings on that day, be deemed to have been reported from the committee without amendment.
Finally, I can find nothing in the terms of the motion which would prevent the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs from reporting Bill C-234 back to the House either before the adoption of the motion or before the sitting day specified in the motion, if it were adopted by the House. Should the committee report the bill before the 10th sitting day after the adoption of the motion, as currently worded, the House would deal with it in accordance with our usual practices. The objective of the motion moved by the hon. member for Crowfoot, that the bill be reported back to the House, would have been met.
Therefore I find that the motion as it stands on the Order Paper is in order.
In the discussion on this question it was mentioned that if the matter is not disposed of, it is transferred to Government Orders. It was suggested that the Chair intervene in this procedure. The wording of Standing Order 66, however, is quite clear, as is our practice. It is not the place of the Chair to interfere in this.
Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples
Routine Proceedings
10:10 a.m.
Sault Ste. Marie
Ron Irwin Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Madam Speaker, under the provisions of Standing Order 32(2), my colleague the hon. Minister of Natural Resources and the federal interlocutor for Metis and non-status Indians and I have the honour to table in both official languages copies of the final report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.
Government Response To Petitions
Routine Proceedings
10:15 a.m.
Fundy Royal
New Brunswick
Paul Zed Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to three petitions.
Credit Card Interest Calculation Act
Routine Proceedings
10:15 a.m.
Charles Caccia Davenport, ON
moved for leave to introduce Bill C-351, an act to provide for the limitation of interest rates, of the application of interest and of fees in relation to credit card accounts.
Madam Speaker, in presenting this bill today, I would like to pay homage to the member for Simcoe North who is the father of this bill and its author. He is presently a parliamentary secretary and therefore is prevented from pursuing the aim of this bill, which has a threefold purpose.
First, it will limit the amount of interest that financial institutions and retailers can charge on outstanding credit card balances.
Second, it sets out a method for calculating interest charges based on the Bank of Canada rate of the previous month.
Third, it provides a mandatory grace period for partial payments on all types of credit cards.
Today banks in Canada continue to set record profits. Interest rates are the lowest in 30 years with the prime rate at 4.75 per cent, yet Canadian consumers are paying exorbitant rates ranging up to 20 per cent on some retail cards.
On behalf of the public, the government has a responsibility to regulate when unfair actions damage the public's interest. In addressing interest rates on credit and charge cards, this bill asks the government to intervene on behalf of the public interest.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)
Committees Of The House
Routine Proceedings
10:15 a.m.
Fundy Royal
New Brunswick
Paul Zed Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, I move concurrence in the 46th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs that was tabled on November 20, 1996.
(Motion agreed to.)
Committees Of The House
Routine Proceedings
10:15 a.m.
Fundy Royal
New Brunswick
Paul Zed Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, pursuant to consultations that occurred earlier in the week among House leaders, I have two motions to propose. The first motion is in relation to the broadcasting of human rights and status of persons with disabilities committee.
I move:
That, during the course of its study on new technologies and privacy rights, the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Persons with Disabilities be authorized to broadcast its proceedings from rooms other than room 253-D in the Centre Block, and that the committee be authorized to broadcast either nationally, over the CPAC network, or on a regional basis, as the committee may deem it appropriate.
(Motion agreed to.)
Committees Of The House
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Fundy Royal
New Brunswick
Paul Zed Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, my second motion is pursuant to an Order made by the House on Thursday, October 24, 1996. I move:
That the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs be authorized to travel to Nova Scotia to visit Cornwallis Park, CFB Greenwood, MTC Aldershot and CFB Halifax on February 27 and 28, 1997 and that the necessary staff do accompany the committee.
(Motion agreed to.)
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Paul Szabo Mississauga South, ON
Madam Speaker, I have two petitions today. The first comes from Delta, B.C.
The petitioners would like to draw to the attention of the House that police and firefighters place their lives at risk on a daily basis as they serve the emergency needs of all Canadians. They also state that in many cases the families are left without sufficient financial means to meet their obligations.
The petitioners therefore pray and call on Parliament to establish a public safety officer compensation fund to receive gifts and bequests for the families of police officers and firefighters killed in the line of duty.
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Paul Szabo Mississauga South, ON
Madam Speaker, the second petition comes from Calgary, Alberta.
The petitioners would like to draw to the attention of the House that managing the family home and caring for preschool children is an honourable profession which has not been recognized for its value to our society.
The petitioners therefore pray and call on Parliament to pursue initiatives to assist families who choose to provide care in the home for preschool children, the chronically ill, the aged or the disabled.
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Rose-Marie Ur Lambton—Middlesex, ON
Madam Speaker, I would like to table a petition signed by the constituents of Lambton-Middlesex and surrounding area duly certified by the clerk of petitions pursuant to Standing Order 36.
The petitioners request that the House of Commons enact legislation or amend existing legislation to define marriage as the voluntary union for life of one woman and one man to each other to the exclusion of all others.
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Osvaldo Nunez Bourassa, QC
Madam Speaker, I am submitting a petition signed by 116 people from my riding of Bourassa, Montreal North and elsewhere.
The petitioners are asking Parliament to start procedures to abolish the Senate. Their request is based on a number of arguments, including the fact that the Senate is made up of non-elected people who are accountable to no one, that its annual operating budget is $43 million, and that it refuses to account to House of Commons committees for this money.
The petitioners point out that the Senate duplicates the work done by members of the House of Commons and, in this period of economic restraint, they wonder about the relevance of maintaining institutions that are as costly as they are useless.
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
John Harvard Winnipeg—St. James, MB
Madam Speaker, I have the honour and pleasure to present a petition signed by 440 Canadians, many of whom are residents of the city of Winnipeg.
The petitioners bring to the attention of the House that among other things pornography is widely available in our society and despite its negative impact it exists in our communities for the most part unhindered and with impunity. They call on Parliament to have the present laws on obscenity strictly upheld, demonstrating a will to protect men, women and children from pornography's impact.
Routine Proceedings
10:20 a.m.
Daphne Jennings Mission—Coquitlam, BC
Madam Speaker, it is appropriate that I rise today during child week, pursuant to Standing Order 36, to present my petitions on behalf of all British Columbians to ask the government to amend the Divorce Act to include grandparents standing in the courts at the time of a divorce to ask to continue to have access to their grandchildren.
Questions On The Order Paper
Routine Proceedings
10:25 a.m.
Fundy Royal
New Brunswick
Paul Zed Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Madam Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: Nos. 83, 84 and 85.
Question No. 83-
Questions On The Order Paper
Routine Proceedings
10:25 a.m.
Val Meredith Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC
Can the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration indicate: ( a ) if special arrangements were made or contemplated at Taiwan, during the recent confrontation between the governments of China and Taiwan, to authorize the transportation of prospective immigrants and temporary entrants to Canada who had not been examined by authorized Canadian personnel and ( b ) if any such applicants were permitted to proceed to Canada without properly conducted oral examinations?


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Summer/Fall 2001
Volume 6 Number 1
J.B. Redding brought a profound and unique perspective of suffering to her first year as an M.Div. student and to her role as the Accuser in the Seminary's presentation of
Job: A Mystery Play. Thirteen years ago, after studying government in college and then earning a law degree, Redding started Caring Hands, a nonprofit business consisting of seven houses and thirty-plus employees who care for twenty severely disabled people. During her first year at Princeton, she commuted at least once a week to Aberdeen, Maryland, because she is still CEO of the company—and because she is committed to continuing her relationships ("to be family") with people who are often without long-term relationships. These people have shaped her. It's best to let Redding's own words describe the whos, the hows, and the whys:
Two Men with Severe Cerebral Palsy
"There were two men who were roommates in a home for severely disabled people. I would go in and hang out with them and converse. Both of these folks had very, very severe
cerebral palsy and so they had a very, very limited ability to gesture. Neither could talk, so I would. Early in my relationship with them I realized that sometimes after I spent time with them I had a sense of full conversation. And I'd think about what a high level of intelligence you have to have to communicate pretty deeply with a couple grunts, some nods, some flickers of the eyelids that aren't even formalized—yet with this they conveyed subtleties, even jokes.
"Hanging out with the two of them I got this sense of both joy and tragedy. The older guy, who passed away last year, had connected with his family. People in the house knew his capacity because his cousins were in and out, and his momma visited, so the staff would see how the family interacted with him and see that it was effective. So you conveyed intelligence to him, because someone in his world conveyed intelligence to him.
"The other man was categorized as profoundly retarded, with a mental age under two or something. I don't know if you have any experience with this, but when people are around those they assume to be mentally retarded, they talk to the disabled people like stupid children—with these little, foofy voices. Everybody talked to this man that way. He had a real sweetness and a tolerance, but I didn't understand how much he was tolerating until one day I said, 'Well, let me see what you know in your room.' And I walked around and would go near something and say, 'Can you point to such and such? Can you point to such and such?' And he knew everything, down to pretty subtle objects, not just chairs and tables. He knew faucets and the wheelchair lock. I couldn't find an object he didn't know. My knowing what he knew enriched our conversation and our relationship greatly, because I started interacting with him on a higher level.
"But staff come in and out of severely disabled people's lives regularly. And I would watch the tragedy of his having to start all over again as a fool—because of our foolishness, not because of his limitations.
Seeing Things Differently
"People would get excited about going to the supermarket because maybe they only get taken three times a year. Getting to pick out a box of cereal was a super big deal. So on the one hand I'm happy about being able to provide this chance, but there's something obscene about the situation. Because people with severe disabilities are a significant portion of our world, and we put them off to the side. We even show some offense if we have to interact too much, if they're too integrated into society.
"I know that I have far more depth and that I'm sensitive to, more able to deal with, things that would be much more challenging had I not cared for people with disabilities. I've had the opportunity to learn their full lifestyle and the intimate care that people who are really disabled require. These people need someone else to do all their intimate care.
"Do you know the loss of power you would feel and the amount of grace you must have when someone comes in and doesn't know how to get your shirt off, so hurts you in the process? And you go through this over and over and over again. Somebody's jerking on you, but if you're in professional care—and you're not at home—then you don't have the liberty, not if you're wise, to just get mad. Because they can do worse than jerk your shirt, you know.
"For a lot of severely disabled people, paid caregivers are their only real family. They haven't had a connection with their relatives for years—or ever, for some. Their whole lives are a string of passing strangers who come through for six months at a time. They don't know anybody who knew them as a baby. They don't have the continuity of history, and nobody claims them. The question is not just whether they will ever get married or ever have an intimate relationship. The question is, 'Will somebody make the commitment to me that even if I don't stay under care in the same house, I'll see you again sometime, that I'll see you again in five years, and again after that?'
A Lady with Red Hair
"There's a little lady I know, and it looks as if somebody has taken her face and just shoved it in. So she's almost completely plain except that her features are warped. She's got gorgeous red hair. She's one of the most gracious, loving people I've ever met, though she's spent most of her life in pretty harsh institutions.
"But she loves herself and her physical self. When she looks in the mirror you cannot miss that she loves herself. She's an achievement! Because we've got super-fine women with all the attributes of what's supposed to be 'it' in this world, and they're running around starving themselves, and they wish this was smaller or that was bigger. But this woman with red hair, she loves herself. I've known her for twelve years and I think she's been depressed for only about two weeks in all that time. And whenever you greet her, she has something for you. At the house where she lives, staff always remark, 'You know, sometimes I feel like I'm not giving as much as I get.'
"So I don't see the lives of the severely disabled as primarily lives of suffering. Among them are people who are amazing. You just see grace, you see grace."
© Copyright 2001 Princeton Theological Seminary
The URL for this page is http://www.ptsem.edu/read/inspire/6.1/student life/SL3.html
firstname.lastname@example.com | last
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Tuesday, May 7, 2013
U.S. Navy Completes First Arrested Unmanned Aircraft Landing
The U.S. Navy said it completed the first successful arrested landing with an unmanned aircraft using Northrop Grumman's X-47B Unmanned Combat Air System (UCAS) demonstrator. The landing was conducted May 4 at Naval Air Station in Patuxent River, Md.
Arrested landing procedures feature the incoming aircraft extending its landing hook to catch a heavy cable extended from the landing area. The cable then brings the aircraft a rapid controlled stop.
With the X-47B, Northrop Grumman used a navigation approach to simulate the technique that the Navy will use to land unmanned aircraft on an aircraft carrier at sea.
"This precision, shore-based trap by the X-47B puts the UCAS Carrier Demonstration [UCAS-D] program on final approach for a rendezvous with naval aviation history," said Capt. Jaime Engdahl, the Navy's UCAS program manager. "It moves us a critical step closer to proving that unmanned systems can be integrated seamlessly into Navy carrier operations."
Later this month, the X-47B is scheduled to undergo sea-based aircraft carrier trials. According to the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), the X-47B will not be used for "operational use," but rather to develop a concept of operations for use in future unmanned carrier based aircraft programs.
Related: Unmanned Systems News


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Price: Was $14.95 Now $9.00


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Basic Oriental Information
- Lifespan: 15 - 20 years
- Weight: 7 - 12 pounds
Medical Conditions Seen in Oriental
Oriental Traits
- Lap Cat
- Intelligence
- Ease of Training
- Grooming Requirements
- Shedding
- Good with Children
- Good with Dogs
- Chattiness
Oriental History
- The breed's beginnings can be traced back to a baroness named von Ullman of Roofspringer Cattery in England. In 1950, she crossed a seal point Siamese with a Russian Blue. Several generations later produced the Oriental, a new breed with a Siamese body, but sporting a solid, rich, chestnut color.
- In the United States, this breed was originally called the Foreign Shorthair. The name was changed to Oriental Shorthair at a meeting of breeders in New York City in the early 1970s.
- Earned championship status by the Cat Fanciers Association in 1977.
Oriental Behavior Concerns
- Smart and social cats who enjoy close friendships with their favorite people.
- Extremely outgoing, a feline extrovert.
- Makes no apologies for being active or even rowdy.
- Highly talkative and demanding.
- Enjoys perching on high places, even on top of refrigerators or doors.
- Benefits by being paired with another Oriental or breed equal in energy and intelligence.
- Needs regular exercise to prevent from becoming bored and destructive.
Look of Orientals
- Identified by its triangle-shaped head, almond-shaped, expressive eyes that slant upward, a sleek, tubular body and whippy tail.
- Eye colors can be green, blue, or even odd (one blue and one green).
- Resemble a feline version of a Greyhound or Chihuahua in color.
- Comes in short and long length coats.
- Short coat lies close to the body and feels silky to the touch.
- Features a full color palette, the Oriental comes in more than 300 colors and patterns.
Grooming Oriental Cats
- Easy-to-care-for coat can be kept looking its best by occasionally running a rubber cat brush through it.
Suggested Nutritional Needs for Orientals
- Usually can be free fed because they are so active and burn off excess calories.
- Rarely at risk for being overweight.
Fun Facts of Orientals
- By definition, Oriental Longhair is due to the presence of a pair of recessive longhair genes.
- Orientals are deceptively muscular and they appear lighter than they actually are.
Did you know?
- A decrease in cat grooming behavior may indicate they are in pain.
- Some cat parasites are transferable to humans.
- Many common pet ailments may be detected early and prevented by visiting your veterinarian twice yearly - saving both time, money, and most importantly, ensuring the best quality of life for your cat.
Come visit us, we would love to see you!
We are here to help! Book an appointment today to continue your pet on a path to great health and wellness
Ask the Vet
Have unanswered pet health questions? Dr.Donna Spector, with 10+ years of hands-on Internal Medicine experience, is here with your answers every Friday.


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Jailbroken iPhone users in the Netherlands beware, a new worm is luring itself by redirecting users from the ING bank web site. When users visit the bank's home page they are redirected by the worm which leaves them vulnerable to criminals that can capture their banking log-in information. Security experts at F-Secure are also warning that the worm can potentially turn infected iPhones into a "bonnet", which is a network of compromised computers at the mercy of hackers or cybercriminals that can be accessed and controlled without the permission of the user. The worm can also be easily spread from one jailbroken iPhone to another when the jailbroken iPhones are connected to the same wireless internet connection.
Although this iPhone Worm is far from the first iPhone security threat to come out recently, Mikko Hypponen of F-Secure says that this is worm is the first seriously malicious virus for the iPhone. "There's a clear financial motive behind it," he told the BBC. "It's fairly isolated and specific to the Netherlands, but it is capable of spreading."
(Via the Telegraph)Read More →


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Do YOU have a role model?
Soooooo, yesterday we talked about our kids and their role models...those folks they may look up to, admire, get inspired by their actions and choices. Um, what about you? Do you have a role model? There is no age limit on that, you know?
It's funny, but I think I have a variety of role models - for different parts of my life. Kind of the Justice League of Heather's Admired Folks. I've got role models for fashion, for family, for career, for life, for entertaining...all people I admire how they do things.
I think the cool thing, when you get older and have role models, is that you know the person isn't perfect, you don't want to be just like them, you may not really like much else but the way they move about the kitchen and can whip up something with ease. It is not someone to mimic or copy, just someone I can take tips from, to make myself a little better version of me in that specific area. More of a reminder, a focus for, say, my style when I'm shopping...and don't we ALL need little reminders in these crazy days of ours?
So, who are your role models? You can break it down by category - your fashion role model, your career role model....
Need some Time for You? Feeling stressed? Kick back, relax & take a break. If you're a woman who just wants to have fun, here's the place :)
No real role models at this point in time :)
same here lol
Quoting hugss:
No real role models at this point in time :)
In the past year or so she has really showed her strength.
She is so smart and brave and classy
It's a shame that she has had to go through the things she has to get the way she is now.
It's kinda cheesy but also my husband. He just walks through life effortlessly so sure of himself. He is so confident and knows exactly who he is.
I'm never sure of anything and I'm always second guessing myself.
and George Clooney. Seriously. He and his father have done so many wonderful things--even putting themselves in grave danger multiple times in their efforts to help end the genocide in Darfur.
My best friend. She has patience, a kind heart, and is loyal in every way. She lives her Christian faith daily, doesn't just talk about it. She is always there for me, and is now facing a health crisis with her husband. I hope I can be as helpful to her as she has always been to me.
Honestly it's my mil mom and sister and sil. All good mommys
I've always loved Rosa Parks.
Rose Marie Bertrand. She is a doula in Madison WI, who started a group that helps women free of charge.


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Pension hike for firefighters approved
NEW ULM – In order to try to boost recruitment and improve retention of veteran firefighters, the New Ulm City Council approved increases to the Fire Department Relief Association pension plan on Tuesday.
The proposal has the City gradually ramp up its annual contributions to the Relief Association over a three-year period. The organization previously provided monthly payments, but it now gives lump sum payouts at retirement at the rate of $3,750 per year of service. The proposal seeks to raise that amount to $4,125 per year by 2016, with smaller steps of raising it to $3,825 per year in 2014 and then $3,975 per year in 2015.
The proposal does not adjust pensions to approximately 40 retired firefighters who are still on a monthly payment program. The changes for those individuals are dictated by the Relief Association, which is an organization independent from the City. Increases for the monthly retired firefighters are usually adjusted up by the organization when it has strong budget balances. Such increases have not been made in several years due to the organization's fund and investments dropping in 2008 and then slowly growing. The organization hopes to increase those pensions as the economy improves.
The Relief Association's proposal to increase payouts for active firefighters who retire will require the City to pay $12,179 more per year by 2016. The gradual increase would mean the City goes from paying $58,273 total to the organization annually to $70,452 by 2016. The increase will come from taxpayer funds in the City budget, but the increased amount is relatively small compared to typical City operation costs.
Board members of the Relief Association requested the raise due to increases in hours of training required of firefighters and the department's struggle with retaining experienced firefighters. The last increase to the pension program payouts was in 2009 when it was increased from $3,000 per year of service to $3,750.
New Ulm Fire Department Chief Paul Macho said the department has always sought to maintain around 42 firefighters, but challenges to recruiting during the down-turned economy and the department's limited recruiting tools have prevented this goal for several years. The department has faced the related problem of declining numbers of veteran firefighters. It currently has 41 firefighters with 16 firefighters with less than five years of experience, primarily due to people retiring or moving on to other work. Thus, 40 percent of the department lacks long-term experience. A larger pension could help attract new firefighters, Macho said.
The Relief Association runs its own operations separate from the City with its own board to make decisions. However, the City is responsible to help maintain the funds by annual payments to build up the payouts for when retirements occur and to cover shortfalls. The increased payouts are not expected to significantly impact the stability of the organization's fund. The fund is currently funded by its investments up to 88 percent of its operations, largely due to recovery in its investments. The increased contributions will drop that down to around 85 percent funded. The organization is optimistic that the improving economy will boost the revenues on their investment to 100 percent funded or beyond in the coming years.
In other business, the Council also approved signing a MnDOT Office of Aeronautics Grant Agreement to fund requests by the Federal Aviation Administration to add saw-cut grooving to the final pavement surface on the New Ulm Municipal Airport's primary runway. The City is currently finishing an airport project that includes resurfacing the runway. The additional $87,000 cost of the grooving will be entirely covered by a state grant in the agreement.
(Josh Moniz can be e-mailed at firstname.lastname@example.com


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Giving recommendations for the best aviation books is sometimes difficult because of the many choices and styles out there. I'd like to offer some unsolicited advice (my wife says that comes more naturally to me than breathing) on my favorites. There are thousands of books that one can read to learn about flying. I know because I've read most of them. But of all the books I've read, two stand out. And as a warning and recommendation, both are full of technical stuff that you won't be reading for fun at the beach. Incidentally, both are also great aviation interview prep.
The first is Mental Math for Pilots by Ronald D. McElroy. It's only 116 pages, but it is filled with great short-cuts to figure out such need-to-know things like groundspeed, time/speed/distance, crosswind components, and more. Even for the seasoned pilot, it's a great review in this day and age of glass cockpits. There was a time in the not-too-distant past when most pilots knew most of the formulas in this book as they flew steam-gauge airplanes from VOR to VOR. Nowadays, most of us need some help, or at least a reminder. McElroy also wrote Ace the Technical Pilot Interview.
The second book, Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot by Richie Lengel, is much more extensive. It runs more than 400 pages, and costs $50 or more depending on where you get it. But the price is well worth it. It is a collection of all kinds of meat-and-potatoes information, plus arcane trivia you likely don't know, or knew that you wanted to know. It covers FAR 121 and 135 regs; aircraft systems; weather; and mental math formulas that are not all included in McElroy's book. It's also loaded with a lot of great cartoons and humor that help drive the points home. This book will save you loads of time and money in research, and you will wish that you had gotten it a long time ago. Don't let the title fool you—you don't need to be a professional to appreciate this tome.
Every pilot has his or her favorite set of resources. These two will save you a lot of Google searches, as well as teach and entertain you. Career pilots and weekend barnstormers alike will both gain much from each of these.
Have you read other books you can't put down, or maybe you've read these and you have another opinion. What do you think?
–Chip Wright