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Debates of March 23rd, 2004
House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was tariffs.
- Order in Council Appointments
- Committees of the House
- Petitions
- Questions on the Order Paper
- Customs Tariff
- The Environment
- The Budget
- The Environment
- RAI International
- Government of Canada
- Jewish Community
- Epilepsy Awareness Month
- Refugees
- Toronto Jewish Community
- Taiwan
- Toronto Jewish Community
- Pay Equity
- Festival du film de l'Outaouais
- Youth Criminal Justice Act
- Sara Corning
- Bell Island
- Sponsorship Program
- Softwood Lumber
- Sponsorship Program
- Foreign Affairs
- Agriculture
- Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act
- St. Lawrence Seaway
- The Senate
- Border Crossings
- Foreign Affairs
- Agriculture
- Softwood Lumber
- Fisheries and Oceans
- Public Service
- Canadian Wheat Board
- Royal Canadian Mounted Police
- RAI International
- Aboriginal Affairs
- Foreign Affairs
- Sponsorship Program
- Gasoline Prices
- Presence in Gallery
- Privilege
- Customs Tariff
- The Budget
Oral Question Period
3:05 p.m.
The Speaker
The hon. member for Saskatoon--Humboldt has raised a point. I draw to the attention of all hon. members, particularly those sitting near him, since he is in perhaps the most difficult place for this rule to apply, Standing Order 16(2) of the House. It states:
When a Member is speaking, no Member shall pass between that Member and the Chair, nor interrupt him or her, except to raise a point of order.
This is a rule that sometimes is not carefully observed in the House, but I would remind all hon. members that it is a Standing Order which we live by in here and which should apply to all hon. members.
I stress the point about interruptions and I stress, on behalf of the hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt and all other members, the rule that members are not to pass between the person who has the floor and the Chair. Usually it means having to go by another route. If the member for Winnipeg Centre, for example, wanted to get up and leave the chamber during the hon. member's question, he has to go forward and out that door or across the House and not back between me and the hon. member.
Is the message clear? The Standing Order says so. I can only enforce the Standing Orders. I thank the hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt for drawing this to the attention of all hon. members.
Oral Question Period
3:05 p.m.
Libby Davies Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the same issue. I would like to point out that the member who has just spoken is not a part of our caucus and if there are members of the Conservative Party, who just clapped, who would like to have him sitting over there, we would most definitely welcome that.
Oral Question Period
3:05 p.m.
The Speaker
I do not think the hon. member is rising on a point of order. She seems to be getting into a debate. If she wants to debate the Standing Orders, the place to do that is the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs Committee, and I would invite her to go there with this point.
Oral Question Period
3:05 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Howard Hilstrom Selkirk—Interlake, MB
I would certainly ask that member from B.C. to withdraw those remarks.
Oral Question Period
3:05 p.m.
The Speaker
I do not know to what remarks the hon. member is referring. If it was suggesting a change of seating or something, I do not know. I think we will leave the matter at rest.
When the House broke for question period, the hon. member for Nanaimo—Cowichan had the floor, and I understand there are eight minutes remaining in the time allotted for his remarks.
The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-21, an act to amend the Customs Tariff, be read the third time and passed.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:05 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Reed Elley Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Mr. Speaker, one of the dangers of speaking just prior to question period is that with the passing of an hour one sometimes forgets one's train of thought. If the rest of my colleagues and perhaps those who are viewing at home will humour me, I may repeat myself a bit. I am sure everyone will agree that it does bear repeating.
Bill C-21, an act to amend the Customs Tariff, has provoked an interesting debate in the House on a number of issues that surround the issue of trade itself. Being a member of Parliament from the west coast of Canada, in fact one of the most westerly ridings in Canada, there is no question that the economy of my riding depends very much on the imposition of a good rules-based trading system.
Most of the people in my riding, even though they have concerns about globalization and its effect upon particularly underdeveloped countries around the world, realize that they gain their bread and butter from having an effective rules-based trading regime in place.
We do not always like what we see happening under NAFTA or under the WTO. However, we are glad that there are rules and procedures that we can follow in terms of dispute resolution to take care of some of the problems that we see in trade today.
I stated before question period that I had travelled in the Orient a number of times. I am pleased to see that there is a rise in the standard of living in countries such as China, where indeed more jobs have been created by the entrance of foreign capital and corporations which are beginning to increase their production in these countries.
However, even though we realize the importance of Bill C-21--and indeed there is an absolute necessity that this legislation be passed in the House because the old legislation indicated that it would expire on June 30 of this year--we have some concerns about the way in which the Liberal government introduces legislation itself.
Why bring it in now? There is the possibility of an election being called in a week, two weeks or a month, who knows? Is it the government's desire to then rush through these kinds of bills in a short period of time, perhaps not giving the bills adequate debate, not giving members of Parliament the opportunity to really take a look at all of the issues surrounding the bill, and to simply move it forward by haste to reach this deadline?
I want to suggest that over my seven years in the House this is simply a brand of the way the Liberals do business. It is a Liberal tactic. It is the indication of a government that has been far more reactive to situations than proactive. That is one of the sad things that I have experienced in the House from the government. Instead of giving Canadians a vision of hope for the future, a five year plan or a 10 year plan in any area of government that would tell us where it is taking the country down the road, it reacts to crisis rather than be proactive to produce a plan that will work for Canadians.
We saw this taking place in a number of areas. I have seen it personally in the way it handled the Iraq war. My personal preference was that we not enter the Iraq war with the United States; however, what happened in that situation was that the government put off enunciating Canada's position until the very last moment. It opened up all kinds of misunderstandings and misinterpretations of where Canadians really stood on this issue.
We saw it happen of course with the softwood lumber agreement which greatly affects my riding. I indicated this before question period, how the softwood lumber concern, a trade issue, has affected so many jobs in my riding.
Simply put, here was an agreement that the government knew expired in the year 2001, and instead of being proactive and ensuring that we could move into something that could take its place at the expiration of the negotiated treaty, we simply moved into this protracted period of almost three years now where we have no agreement with the Americans over softwood lumber. It has deeply hurt the industry across Canada, particularly in British Columbia.
This again is an indication of a government that does not prepare. It simply reacts to crisis and once again we see that in the way it treats legislation. It puts it off and then when it is somewhat politically opportune, it brings it in, deals with it by rushing it through Parliament. We do not have the kind of time and attention paid to legislation that we should in this place.
We see the same sort of thing in reference to the same sex marriage question where it wants to put it off to the courts rather than to allow members of the Parliament of Canada, who speak for the people of the nation, to represent their concerns in the House on such a huge issue. The government puts it off. It tries to put it out of its particular purview and make someone else responsible for it.
That is irresponsible and it is in the same kind of vein in terms of the legislation before the House. It brings in legislation at the very last moment when it is politically opportune to get it out of the way. It is almost like a work filler for us to have something to do before the election comes along. I suggest that is not the way it should be.
Even though we have these concerns about the bill, and its timing, we do agree with the bill and we will be supporting it when it comes to a vote in the House.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:15 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Ted White North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Speaker, there were a couple of issues which my colleague raised during his speech which I just could not wait to comment on. One of them was about the sweat shops. He did express the concern which we hear about a lot here and out in the general public as well about the sweat shops which are in existence in some third world countries and actually, regrettably, in Toronto and Montreal as well.
Certainly, in third world countries there are quite a lot of sweat shops manufacturing products which we consume. The real question is, how do we as a nation help to get rid of these sweat shops and improve the quality of life for those people and improve their wages?
The NDP and a lot of left wing activists would have us get the corporations out of there and close these sweat shops. Of course, anybody who thinks through the problem will realize that does not solve it at all. All it does is throw the people into more poverty, so it really is not an answer. In fact, it is cruel to even suggest that should be done.
The correct way to do it and perhaps I will relate back to the example I gave earlier going back a couple of centuries to good old England. At that time, there were little boys working as chimney sweeps, climbing the insides of chimneys. Many of them died at a young age from cancer of the scrotum because of all the carbon that was on their skin.
These were the horrible conditions that existed only a couple of hundred years ago in a society that we now consider very advanced. How did that situation improve? By encouraging initiative, free trade and expanding markets so that companies could expand and improve the lot for their workers. Unions appeared and were able to improve working conditions.
The answer is not to close down the sweat shops. Tough as it seems, we may just have to continue to buy the goods and hopefully, within a very short time because of the expansion of the markets, those sweat shops will start to disappear.
Another issue the member mentioned was the failure of the government to offer any real vision for this country. It is ramming through these bills at the last minute before the election.
During question period we saw an absolutely disgraceful display of a standing ovation on the other side when a member tried to bring up an absolutely heinous crime that occurred in B.C., which the people of B.C. are absolutely outraged about. It has been front page news there. It is on all the talk shows and people are absolutely outraged that a person who almost murdered his wife, raping her and beating her, was sentenced to probation. It is absolutely an outrageous crime and to see these people over there standing and applauding a mindless answer from the minister really indicates where their heads are.
They claim to have a monopoly on compassion, tolerance and understanding in this country. In fact, they are the least compassionate, least tolerant, and least understanding people in the whole country. They should be treating that as a serious issue that needs attention. It should be part of the vision for the country to correct those imbalances in the legislation, instead of rushing through and taking the ridiculous attitude of rushing through pieces of legislation at the last minute. That is what we are faced with.
I would like to ask the member, reverting back to the sweat shops, does he see some way that we can contribute to closing those down through these free trade agreements and lessening of tariffs?
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:20 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Reed Elley Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his comments and his questions. I would agree that one of the effects of globalization is that in the initial stages of helping undeveloped countries develop their own economies and infrastructures, unfortunately this kind of thing happens. It is a fact of life and there are enough unscrupulous people around that they will take advantage sometimes of situations like that.
Of course, in some ways the market does solve the problem itself in terms of the economy growing and people's standard of living starting to be raised, and we move out of that kind of circle of perhaps abuse.
One of the other things that has to be done too is that Canadians--we all invest in companies and mutual funds--need to put pressure on companies to be ethical and just in their treatment of people around the world.
I want to reflect briefly on the little incident that occurred just after question period. I, too, found it reprehensible that a member, even though we may not agree with his particular point of view in many cases, would be treated with such contempt particularly by people who have the name democratic in their party. I just cannot understand that. In this country, the race toward political correctness has very often shut off legitimate debate on serious issues that Canadians are really concerned about.
If we were to have that viewpoint dominant in the House in the years to come, it would bode ill for our country and our democracy. I hope that our Speaker and others who are in authority will continue to keep us on the right track on those issues.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
March 23rd, 2004 / 3:20 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
John M. Cummins Delta—South Richmond, BC
Mr. Speaker, I certainly appreciated the comments of my colleague from Nanaimo. I think that the issues raised by this bill and the hurry up fashion with which it is being rushed through the House are symptomatic of the way the government has been treating some important legislation over its mandate. I find that particularly reprehensible.
I think that one of the key issues reflected in the bill has to do with the failure of the government to look far enough ahead when these sorts of agreements are due to expire.
My friend has an interest in the softwood lumber issue in British Columbia, where we had the same sort of happenstance. We were aware that the agreement was going to expire well in advance of the due date, and yet only in the moments leading up to that did the government decide it had better get on the bandwagon and try to solve the problem. I wonder if my friend sees any parallels between the way Bill C-21 has been brought forward and the fallout from the other.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:25 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Reed Elley Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Mr. Speaker, I touched on that issue in my speech, but I simply want to reiterate that I do see some parallels here. I am afraid that it is a pattern of governing that has infected the Liberal Party and its approach to government. I am sure that Canadians are getting tired of this. They want a government that has a vision. They want a government that can enunciate that vision to the country. Canadians want a government that will be proactive in terms of meeting the real challenges of the 21st century. After all, we are in the 21st century. We in Canada need to do a lot of things to bring our country into the 21st century, most of all in the way we govern ourselves and in the institutions of Parliament.
I have been here for seven years. Over those seven years I have heard people say that this place needs to be modernized, that government needs to meet the needs of the people, and that people ought to have a direct say in government.
Those people on the opposite side of the House, members of the governing Liberal Party, have been making promises for years and now we have a Prime Minister who is suddenly awake to the democratic deficit as if it was never here during the last 15 years he has been here. I think that he and the government have set a terrible example for the country. They have known about these problems all along and have not done anything about them.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:25 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Howard Hilstrom Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Mr. Speaker, we are here today to debate Bill C-21. For the riding of Selkirk—Interlake, any bill dealing with trade and tariffs is of primary importance. I have some points to make here today that will add to the debate.
Just so it is clear, as some people may be watching at home, Bill C-21 amends two sections of the customs tariff, specifically the general preferential tariff and the least developed country tariff. Under this bill, they are extended for another 10 years until June 30, 2014. The current legislation expires on June 30, 2004, so this matter is becoming fairly urgent. That is why it is being brought to the House now. This is the kind of legislation that the government should be making an earlier commitment on, a commitment to have it fully explored as opposed to trying to have it done in a rush without due diligence or thought.
These sections of Bill C-21, along with the act itself, are very important due to the fact that the majority of nations in the world that we trade with fall under this act in relation to the international agreements we have with them. Canada needs this stability in its import markets as well as in the export markets. On trade, it is my opinion that Canada absolutely needs to have the most extensive trading network possible on the international scene.
Every country in the world has something that Canadians would like to buy and probably every country in the world would like to buy something from Canada. Of course every country looks at this and says that for a country to get richer, it would like to sell but not buy anything. In this way a country could get richer and it would let other countries fend for themselves. But that is not the way it works. We have trade agreements that help facilitate this.
I believe that the ultimate objective in the world would be to have a trading system or relationship that is without tariffs and without barriers to trade so that all nations, and poor nations in particular, could bring themselves to a higher standard of living and become richer. I think that is what trade does.
Over history, the most successful nations in the world have been those nations that have used trade and the enrichment that trade brings not only to ensure that they have the financial resources to have a good way of life, but to ensure that they also have the cultural effects. People move from country to country and end up spreading their culture and good ideas around.
We also know that facilitating trade and having a lot of trade relationships with other countries have an overall security effect. If countries are closely intertwined in a cultural and economic relationship, they will be less inclined to battle each other and fight to the detriment of both. That is why we on the Conservative side are so much in favour of expanding trade. We are not saying we should expand trade at any cost, and of course the world has not yet reached the point where we can say that it is total and 100% free trade among all nations and everything will be fine, but it is one of those lofty goals that we in Canada have to reach for.
This customs tariff is organized into several major components. One is the most favoured nations tariff. We also have the general preferential tariff and a least developed country tariff. Finally, nations are subject to the general tariff rates.
These rules are under domestic legislation, which is what we are doing here today, and also under international trade agreements. The WTO, the World Trade Organization, is one of those organizations to which this applies. Of course our relationships with other countries on a bilateral or trilateral basis are also trade agreements. NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, is one of those other agreements.
To digress a little, when I am travelling across the country as the agriculture critic with the Conservative Party, I hear farmers say that "those doggone Europeans", or the Americans or whoever, have slapped a duty on us. For instance, a duty has been slapped onto wheat, affecting the whole country but western Canada in particular. These are examples.
People blame the WTO and NAFTA for the duties that were slapped on. That is a typical trick of the NDP. They just love to say that these world trade agreements and globalization are bad, bad, bad.
The facts of the matter are these. I will use the example of the United States cattle a few years ago. We remember R-CALF, that producer group in the U.S. It was concerned that with our cattle going down there it was causing undue harm to the financial well-being of the United States. The United States producers used domestic U.S. law to put up those tariffs. What do we do when we are a little country of some 30 million people compared to a country of some 300 million people? It is a big difference. It is the old story of the elephant and the mouse. Those tariffs got slapped on and it cost us an awful lot of money. We had to pay to get our beef across the border and the Americans kept the money.
My point is that because of the WTO agreements and the NAFTA agreement we were able to use the dispute settlement mechanisms and we got the U.S. to back off on its domestic trade laws. It had misused those laws and was in contravention of the WTO. That is why we in the Conservative Party are such strong supporters of NAFTA, of World Trade Organization talks and of other international agreements that facilitate trade and, most important, stop the big guy from bullying the little guy.
I have talked about NAFTA and the WTO and the dispute settlement mechanisms. I would like to talk for a minute about agriculture in particular. The importance of tariffs is paramount as the negotiations go on in changing to this new order that everybody is talking about, where tariffs will come down.
I will remind the House that the general belief and policy position of the Conservative Party is that tariffs should be negotiated down. But in the case of supply management, our system in Canada certainly has control of supply. Extra supply is not put out. This is done through a legislative process. There is a built in cost of production formula so that there is some reasonable return on those products.
Part of the three pillars of supply management is that import tariffs have to be sufficient to prevent other countries from putting a lot of product into Canada over and above what we have agreed to at the WTO. Those high tariffs do that for supply management.
Many people like to say that the member for Selkirk—Interlake is against supply management or that he is against this or that. A lot of misinformation is being put out. Unfortunately, I happen to have a lot of these four-legged creatures, called cows, at home, and the beef industry in Canada is protected by tariffs also. We have a limit of around 79,000 tonnes that comes in from oceanic countries like Australia, New Zealand and Brazil. That limit is there for the purpose of not having our beef industry flooded with excessive amounts of cheap foreign beef.
We will be working to lower those tariffs so we can have more free trade in the beef industry. That can be done at the negotiations of the WTO. However, we will not arbitrarily lower these tariffs. It is the same with the supply management side. The Conservative Party very clearly will not arbitrarily lower those import tariffs.
We will have to negotiate those tariffs at the WTO. The former agriculture minister said that the government supported supply management 110,000% and that it would never change. There was that kind of talk. Even the current minister says things along the same idea, but he modifies it a bit.
On supply management, trade and tariffs, in 1995 the Liberal government, with the current Prime Minister as part of that government, signed away article XI, the article in the trade agreements between countries that protected supply management from any change. The government put it on the negotiating table of the WTO. It said that it would agree to 5% imports in 1995. Later the Liberal government negotiated to have the supply management tariffs, which were on the negotiating table, lowered so we in Canada would end up accepting more imports of supply management commodities.
I think the Liberal government is proceeding along with that process because it is on the table at the WTO right now, which is where it should be. We all have to look at every sector of our economy and participate ultimately in world negotiations. That is supply management.
There is some name calling by the Liberals, and I have expressed their misstating of our position on trade and on supply management in particular. However, I would like them to remember that our position is consistent, whether it be beef or supply management.
I will talk briefly about tariffs and the two particular parts of our agriculture industry. This is where I get to the former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and many of the Liberal members, who are still sitting here. Under the least developed country tariff agreement, the prime minister said that we would accept agriculture commodities from the least developed countries to help them enrich themselves. They could sell more to Canada to make their economies work better. That would allow the poor farmer to sell more to help enrich a country. However, he said that we would not let any supply management commodities come into the country. Rather we would allow only those non-supply management commodities. That made a lot of farmers say, "Just a minute". They said that if we were to have international agreements that affected agriculture, at least it should be done in a uniform basis so all commodities would be affected similarly.
That was one of the big faults with the Liberals. They tried to pick out one or two commodity groups and treat them different from all agriculture commodities across the country. That is just plain not fair, and it causes division between agriculture groups.
I know the Grain Growers of Canada, with their excellent executive director Cam Dahl, has one kind of possession on the trade that we should be moving toward greater trade. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture is generally saying that tariffs should not be reduced too much, that we should keep the status unless we can get the deal we want, and if we do not get what we want, we should not negotiate. Once again, this is causing dissension between commodity groups in the country.
Canada is saying that it is part of the Cairns Group, which is the group of countries, primarily led by Australia. It is recognized as the leaders of those middle sized countries in the trading world that want to see everyone enrich themselves and prosper. It points out that this cannot be done when rich countries and rich groups of countries, namely, the United States and the European Union, have so much money that they can outbid and out-finance every other country in the world and in effect subsidize their farmers to the point where they can compete with anybody because they can produce the food for nothing and still make a living. That is wrong.
The Cairns Group wants to change that, and that is tremendously important in looking at all these tariffs and trade agreements. It is tremendously important that tariffs come down and that trade is facilitated between countries. The Cairns Group is certainly a leader in that.
I wanted to bring up the Cairns Group in this context because Canada is part of that group, but it is not really a leader in it. We are the biggest country in the group, from an economic point of view, and we should be a leader and go for the ultimate goal of freer trade, lower tariffs and greater market access. That is tremendously important.
About four years ago I was in Washington, D.C. We talked to the people who dealt with least developed countries that were trying to enrich themselves. The speaker pointed out very clearly the importance of having countries willing to accept imports from these poorer countries.
The conclusion of my speech is that we have to, as rich Canadians, allow greater imports into Canada by these poorer countries. We will end up becoming richer also, and not with just a good feeling in our hearts. When those countries become richer, they will buy more beef from us, and that will help our cattle ranchers.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:45 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Lynne Yelich Blackstrap, SK
Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to what the hon. member said about supply and management, and I am curious. When they were negotiating, as the hon. member spelled out, there were some trade-offs. Could the hon. member tell me just who the negotiator was at the GATT talks?
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:45 p.m.
Canadian Alliance
Howard Hilstrom Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Mr. Speaker, there is a long history in regard to the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs. Back in the early 1980s, and before that, agriculture was not really in any international trade agreement. There was trade in agriculture, but it was not really in the agreements. It was brought under the WTO in order to have agriculture as part of it.
The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada was the negotiator at that time. Then the Liberals came into power in 1993 and finished it off. When I say finished it off, they literally did finish off supply management because they negotiated away article XI. When they did that, of course it opened up Canada's supply management system to change. That change is continuing to progress today, and we will see it continue at the current WTO trade talks.
I would like to think, as history moves along and the next day comes along, that hopefully the Conservative Party of Canada will be in a position after the next election to be the ones to do the negotiating and making a much better deal for Canada than would ever be done by the government currently in power.
Customs Tariff
Government Orders
3:45 p.m.
Progressive Conservative
Joe Clark Calgary Centre, AB
Mr. Speaker, I am not clear whether the hon. member, speaking on behalf of his party, is suggesting that his party would eliminate supply management in its international negotiations or would fight to maintain supply management?


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We are now two full weeks into the 2007 Legislative session and here are a few of the Bills that we are working on that may be of interest to you. We will continue to keep you informed as the session progresses.
H.B 1 Minimum School Program Base Budget Amendments appropriates approximately $2.4 billion from the Uniform School Fund to fund the state portion of the Minimum School Program. This includes $529.1 million in local revenue that support the Minimum School Program.
Teachers were given a $2,500 raise and a $1,000 bonus in fiscal year 2008 and will be given another $2,500 in fiscal year 2009. In addition the Bill allows for enrollment growth of 2.4 percent, an increase of 12,800 students.
S.B 1 State Agency and Higher Education Base Budget Appropriations Act funds state agency and higher education base budgets for fiscal year 2009. It deposits $60.5 million into the State's two rainy day funds appropriating $16.2 million for the General Rainy Day and $44.2 million in the Education Rainy Day Fund. This brings the total Rainy Day balances to more than $410 million, split $187 for the General and $227 into the Education. It also authorizes $2.5 million in new fiscal year 2008 General Fund spending for re-seeding efforts to recover from last years range fires.
S.B 15 Driving Under the Influence Amendments amends provisions relating to driving under the influence, by enacting an impaired driving plea that is a class B misdemeanor. It requires the court to notify the Driver License Division of a conviction for impaired driving, provides sentencing requirements for impaired driving convictions, and repeals certain alcohol or drug-related reckless driving plea restrictions.
S.B 19 Enhanced Public Safety Requirements Systems Cola Option modifies the State Requirement and Insurance Benefit Act by allowing participating employers to provide an enhanced maximum annual cost of living adjustment for certain public safety retirees, with an increase to 4 percent from the current rate of 2.5 percent. It also allows other participating employers to make a one time election to offer the enhanced cost of living adjustment, if made within a certain period of time.


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The M68 Thunder Grenade propels four .68 caliber paintballs at over 100+ feet using CO2 as a power source. The M68 Thunder Grenade is charged via the Thunder Grenade Charger with regulated CO2 pressure. The Thunder Grenade Charger has a built in pressure regular that allows the user to control the output pressure of each charge. This regulated pressure determines the velocity o f the paintball coming out of the M68 Thunder Grenade.
The M68 Thunder Grenade has a patented air accumulator design that allows the CO2 to rapidly expand for a powerful explosion-like delivery. This patented design serves as a noise inducer while also propelling any projectiles loaded into the chamber.
The M68 Thunder Grenade gives a loud "bang"; 100 times louder than a paintball gun when shot. The loud "bang" can be used as a decoy to create a distraction for advancement over the opposing force. The M68 Thunder Grenade can also be loaded with simulated smoke powder. This can inflict fear on the opponent when they hear a loud "bang" followed by seeing a cloud of smoke shooting into the air.
See the M68 Thunder Grenade in action:
-you will need grenade charger to power the grenade
-The new series M68 Grenade does not require a regulator
*Out of Stock*
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Jessica Simpson Edina Printed Platform Pump
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Item # dsw12prod4610087
Look classy and feel confident when you step out in the Edina from Jessica Simpson. This fun printed platform pump is sure to complete your outfit.
- Printed fabric upper
- Ankle strap with an adjustable buckle
- Almond peep toe
- 1½" hidden platform, 4¾" covered heel
- Synthetic sole
- Imported
- View more Jessica Simpson
By: littlebruno
Location: Holtsville, ny
December 05, 2013
Amazing Georgous!!
"I love these vibrant sexy tall heels, WOW! The upper is satin, which I didn't pick up from the images, they are comfy and make the boys drool sexy.I love you Jessica, your shoes rock and always fit perfect!"
By: shoelovinmama
Location: Harrisburg pa
November 05, 2013
Print pretty!
"At first I was very indecisive about this shoe until I bought two outfits that would go perfect with these shoes! Very vibrant colors and very comfortable to boot! True to size I am a 7-71/2 depending on the make of the shoe, but the 7 1/2 fit me perfectly! very happy with the shoe get it before its gone!"
By: OriginalNicknameHere
Location: Columbia, SC
October 30, 2013
gorgeous print
"As others have said, the fabric on these is really gorgeous. I bought them on a whim and couldn't be happier - super sexy and really beautiful. I always find the JS shoes a little snug across the top of the foot at first, and these are no exception - a little bit of a pinch. But they usually break in well, so I'm hoping these will too."
By: kenwoo
Location: Michigan
October 20, 2013
"They look better in person! Colors are beautiful"
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LTE and WiMAX Deployments Go Head-to-Head as 4G Technology Battle Begins
December 2009 saw the first commercial launch of LTE networks, with TeliaSonera the first service provider in the world to offer the service in Stockholm and Oslo. 2010 promises to see the commercial launch of several LTE networks, including large operators such as Verizon Wireless in the United States and NTT DoCoMo in Japan. With voice standards still in development and a lack of compatible handsets, however, one can expect these networks to carry only data traffic for some time to come.
As LTE deployments begin to pick up pace, WiMAX continues its steady progress. ABI Research Analyst Bhavya Khanna says, "While LTE does promise data speeds greater than 50 Mbps, they have yet to be achieved by live or trial networks, whereas mobile WiMAX is now a tried and tested standard." Several operators, including Sprint in the United States, have chosen to go with WiMAX as their 4G network of choice. ABI Research reports 164 mobile WiMAX networks in trial or commercial operation at the end of 2009, compared to just over 100 LTE trials.
In addition, the total number of network contract announcements for mobile WiMAX tracked by ABI research was 242, compared to only 38 for LTE. With the planned launch of several WiMAX devices in 2010, including handsets from smartphone maker HTC, it looks likely that this technology will co-exist with LTE for some time to come.


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By RICHARD SHAWEmery County Progress publisher
Dec. 9, 1963.
That was the day that Studebaker Motor Corporation died.
It may be inevitable that a day like that may come to the American manufacturing scene again. Only instead of this time it being the "Big three" putting a smaller auto manufacturer out of business, it may be the likes of Toyota and Honda destroying what has been the predominant American industry of the last century.
Ford and General Motors are in trouble; big trouble. Just as much as Studebaker was on that cold morning in South Bend, Ind. when they closed the doors of a 114-year-old-business that made vehicles. I was only 11 at the time, and the son of a Ford family, but still there was disbelief in everyones minds that such a large, old company could go out of business just like that.
Well, it actually wasn't just like that. Studebaker had a lot of weaknesses that just built up over the years until they couldn't compete with the likes of Chrysler, GM and Ford. They had old plants, which were not only expensive to retool, but impossible to update except at high cost. So they would just change things on vehicles around a little and keep using the old equipment and the same plans to build cars.
They had workers who were paid more than the industry average and with their manufacturing plants the way they were, those salaries made the cost of the cars even higher. An old company (50 years older than Ford and more than that for many of GM's divisions) Studebaker had retirees to take care of; pension plans were important. Generations of workers had toiled in their factories. When those workers hadn't built cars they had built the best horse and oxen pulled wagons made. They had provided a way west before the railroad.
They were part of the American scene when they died.
One time, in the late 1800s, when the largest Studebaker plant in northern Indiana burned down, instead of moving onto greener pastures or closing it they had rebuilt it, largely because the Studebaker brothers felt they owed it to the workers who had built their company over the years. They were dedicated to their employees' security long before unions told them they had to be.
They had bought up other car companies, trying to support their faltering market position before World War II. Companies like Pierce Arrow and Packard.
Their factories had helped defeat the axis powers during that war building outstanding military trucks and great engines for B-17 bombers. Along with Curtis Wright, another Indiana based company, they had taken their products to the sky and won.
But despite this, the Packard division of the company failed in 1958. The Pierce Arrow division had been divested of years before. And the company just wasn't building their standard Studebaker trucks and cars in a fashion that many people wanted anymore, despite the introduction of new models that were ahead of their time and every bit as good or better than their competitors.
If all this sounds familiar it should. It's a pattern that is being retraced today. The very automotive juggernauts that sent Studebaker down in the death spiral, may soon be going the way of the passenger pigeon themselves.
Ford's market share has dropped so far that now they are only the number two auto maker in North America, not in the world anymore. Toyota recently passed them for that honor.
And if it weren't for fleet sales in the United States, GM would be number two in the world to that same company; the one whose cars GM execs in the 1960s termed "Japanese junk."
How did this happen? How did the power houses of American manufacturing end up in such straights? How did the dreams of Henry Ford and William C. Durrant get so tarnished?
There are a lot of answers to these questions and almost all of them are correct. A lot of it was arrogance by American car manufacturers. Some of it can be attributed to greedy executives and yes, to greedy union workers too.
Right now the big three have literally hundreds, maybe even thousands of employees sitting in what workers call "padded cells" (old, unused shops in and around manufacturing plants) reading magazines and watching television all day because the companies have no jobs for them to do. But because of union concessions years ago concerning job security, they can't lay them off. With benefits many of these workers are pulling down over $100,000 per year. The total cost for these non-productive employees is well over one billion dollars a year.
And then there is the American consumer. In the 1990s the manufacturers went nuts with bigger and bigger SUVs because that is what people wanted (and what the manufacturers told people they wanted, as well). Then gas hit $3 per gallon and suddenly economy cars sounded much better than they had in a long while. At that time GM and Ford were actually building some pretty good economy vehicles, but they haven't sold well and the vehicles are built with such high costs (based on productivity) that neither company makes any money on them.
It's just like the 1973 Arab oil crisis again. Remember that? Only thing is, this time it isn't going to go away like that did. And Honda, Toyota and Hyundai all have big plants in the U.S. making cars Americans want. There are no tariffs to pay and politically it looks good to build their cars here. They often point out that the cars are put together by Americans.
Just don't tell anyone that 90 percent of the parts in those cars are manufactured overseas, while most main line American car manufacturer vehicles have at least an 80 percent rate of parts that are made in North America. That's important, because the support industries that supply parts to the big three employ as many or more people than the car makers do.
American car manufacturers are what economists term "mature industries" which really means their executives manage pension funds and health care plans instead of automotive manufacturing and marketing. They are busy trying to pay for thousands of workers health insurance, who built the companies into what they are, instead of strategizing about how to build better cars, how to market them and how to catch up with the Japanese companies that have few retirees and younger workers to support.
The Land Of The Rising Sun couldn't defeat the United States in a war because our resources and manufacturing capacity was so great; but they have now almost vanquished most of our industry because of many Americans self denial, arrogance and selfishness.
To sell products in a world economy you must be competitive; and you can't count on your countrymen to buy from you just because you are one of them. In fact today, many people under 30 in this country will not buy any car made in America. And if you are trying to teach young kids a geography lesson and the largest city in Michigan is the question that is being posed, don't try to give them a hint about which town it is by saying "It's where they build cars." Many kids now will answer, with little hesitancy, "Japan?"
As for the Japanese they had better start looking over their shoulders too. No one is going to have a run as being the largest company in the world for 70 years, like GM has, again. Or at least if the Chinese can help it. Right now Japanese industry may be sweeping up the world in their arms, but their arch rivals in Asia are getting ready to trip them up and steal away all they have gained.
Everyone in the United States is pointing fingers at someone else for losing first the electronic industry, then the steel industry and now the vehicle manufacturing. But the fact remains it is everyone in this country's fault that this has happened: manufacturers, dealers, parts suppliers and yes, us, the consumers.
A turnaround may be possible. And a merger may be in the works but I doubt that Ford and GM could ever get along under the same roof. So what are the possibilities? Who knows what strange bedfellows may emerge.
Anyone for a Ford Civic or a Toyota Eldorado?


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AK Anne Klein Zya Pump
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Item # 287897
Sparkle and shine all night long in the Zya. This Anne Klein d'orsay pum will make you stand out in the crowd, no matter the occasion!
- Glitter upper
- Pointed toe
- 3½" glitter covered heel
- Synthetic sole
- Imported
- View more AK Anne Klein
By: Prettyduchess
Location: Ky
April 06, 2014
Great buy
"I got this shoe for one of my sisters and now my other sister wants one. They both say they love it"
By: Stella1100
Location: Washington, DC
January 11, 2014
Cute but too narrow - had to return
"I was so excited to get these shoes for a holiday party. They are beautiful, but really uncomfortable. The cut out on the inside of the shoes felt like it would cause a blister, and the toe area was too narrow."
By: Brooke33
Location: VA
January 04, 2014
A little uncomfy
"I loved the color of these shoes. They have a slight pink hue to them. Ended up returning because they pinched at the top of the foot where the shoe cuts in. Also there was no traction on the bottom which led to some slipping on smooth surfaces."
By: Stephanie44
Location: Washington DC
December 22, 2013
"These shoes are great for work or even a night out on the town!"
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Should the newspaper industry get a government bailout?
Do you think the recession is over?
Was Jimmy Carter a racist when he called Obama a boy during the election?
Will any smoking guns be found in the missing City Hall e-mails?
Do you think the President can convince the country to accept the public option in the Health Care Reform?
Did the mainstream media deliberately downplay the number of protesters in Washington, D.C.?
Under whose watch did you feel safer: Barack Obama or George Bush?
Should Congressman Wilson have apologized for heckling Pres. Obama during his address last night?
Was Abercrombie and Fitch correct in holding to their strict policy of one patron per dressing room with a disabled patron?
Should the "Great Gamere" who pleaded guilty today to child porn charges serve jail time?


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Acme C401A-SF1727 Convertible Top
$1,954.99 Ships free Australia wideBack to top
Acme C401A-SF1727 Convertible Top
by Acme Auto Headlining CoIn Stock
$1,954.99 Ships free Australia wide
- Black/Tan
- Stayfast
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Delivery: Free shipping anywhere in Australia Delivery within 6-12 working days
(Shipments to NT and rural WA may take longer) Free SMS notifications
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Product details:
This replacement convertible top follows the factory sewing pattern and attachment points. All seams are sewn with matching Colorfast thread to inhibit discolouration and deterioration. The deck seams are sewn and dielectrically heat sealed. Zippers are nylon, plastic marine grade or brass if applicable to that model year of vehicle. Stayfast Cloth is a three-ply composite made of an acrylic square weave outer fabric, a rubber inner layer, and a cotton lining. Factory six year warranty. Professional installation recommended.
- Black/Tan
- Stayfast
Brand: Acme Auto Headlining Co
Product ID: 1117202804650416
Product Dimensions: 33cm x 33cm x 12.7cm
- Free delivery Australia wide
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Information above was provided by the manufacturer or local distributor.
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Levity Willow Wedge Sandal
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Item # 274044
Slip into high style in the Levity Willow. This wedge sandal is just what you've been searching for to spice up your summer looks.
- Faux patent leather upper
- Double ankle straps with adjustable buckles
- Round peep toe
- 1½" platform, 4½" cork & patent wedge heel
- Imported
- View more Women's Levity Shoes
By: ShoesBootsAddict
Location: Woodbridge, NJ
December 02, 2013
hot sandals
"These sandals are very hot. I found them in the store in black and white but opted for the coral and beige. Get a lot compliments when I wear these shoes. They are extremely stylish. They are true to size for me (I am size 8 as the 1/2 size was too long). No regret with purchase and hopefully you will not either."
By: Bimbay
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
September 12, 2013
"Lovely shoes.absolutely stunning"
By: Roni71
Location: Fairfax, VA
September 09, 2013
Very cute & funky
"This shoe made my outfit pop. Excellent addition! Easy to walk in and quite comfortable."
By: Shoekrazee
Location: Richmond, TX
August 07, 2013
Love them shoes!!!
"Let me tell you....These shoes right here, are so comfy. I loved it so much, I also got the coral and cream pair. I am a size 11 with a wide feet and these shoes fit my feet to a T. I have 4 shoes from this designer and I am yet to be disappointed. I get compliments on these babies wherever I go...."
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text: Does her wardrobe need something new? Or are you simply in one of those shopping moods? Just go with it. View our full range of girl's styles, for ages 3-12 years, right here. Whether you need girls occasionwear, girls winter clothes, or girls shoes, we have everything you want and everything she needs in one place.


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Miu Miu Nubuck Leather Studded Boot
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Item # 284131
With a collection of beautifully crafted footwear, Miu Miu evokes a luxurious sense of freedom and intimacy with attention to detail and high quality. Add a trendy touch to your casual look with this studded nubuck leather boot.
- Nubuck leather upper
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- 7¾" shaft height, pull on
- 12¾" calf circumference
- Square toe
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- ¾" platform, 2¼" block heel
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- Made in Italy
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Michael Vick In Hot Water?
Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:23 AM
MIAMI Michael Vick reluctantly surrendered a water bottle to security at Miami International Airport that contained a residue "closely associated with marijuana," but no charges were immediately filed, police said Thursday.
The 26-year-old Atlanta Falcons' quarterback entered an airport concourse Wednesday morning with the 20-ounce bottle. He eventually handed it over and boarded his flight to Atlanta. But his initial reluctance to turn over the bottle aroused suspicion among airport security screeners, a police report said.
Two Transportation Security Administration screeners recognized the 6-foot, 215-pound Vick as the Falcons quarterback.
The bottle was found to have a hidden compartment that contained "a small amount of dark particulate and a pungent aroma closely associated with marijuana," the report said. The compartment was hidden by the bottle's label so that it appeared to be a full bottle of water when held upright, police said.
Police said the bottle has been sent to the Miami-Dade County crime lab for analysis. It could be weeks before any decision is made on whether to file charges, said police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta.
"We'll do an analysis and see what it is. There's no sense of urgency to it," he said Thursday.
Vick did not immediately return a phone call early Thursday.
"We plan to look into the matter and discuss it with Michael Vick before having any further comment," Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts said.
Vick's younger brother, Marcus, is a wide receiver for the Miami Dolphins. Michael Vick was the overall No. 1 draft pick in the 2001 NFL draft. In 2006, Michael Vick passed for more than 2,400 yards and also topped 1,000 yards rushing.
Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:12 AM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:22 AM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:23 AM
like i said once a thug always a thug nah mean??? lolz
Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:24 AM
He sure is treading a thin line right now and this wasn't the first impression he wanted to give Bobby Petrino and he was already not on the best of terms with Arthur Blank after swearing at the fans.
Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:42 AM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 02:45 PM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 03:09 PM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 04:30 PM
Posted 18 January 2007 - 09:23 PM
Ron Mexico Lives. I think that is a hysterical story. Maybe the Bengals will sign him to back up Palmer after next year. Imagine that Vick to C. Henry combination in the locker room---It would go up in smoke. Literally
Posted 19 January 2007 - 10:06 AM
He is pretty cool though, swagger QB right there
Posted 19 January 2007 - 11:14 AM
Vick certainly is a Marvin Lewis type of player but to get him Marvin may have to give up some of his other criminals. I expect Lewis to offer Eric Steinbach a huge contract so he can keep his drunken sailor too this offseason.
Posted 19 January 2007 - 08:23 PM


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Petite Kensington Leather Sofa
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A masterful reproduction by Timothy Oulton of the classic Chesterfield style, our sofa evokes the grand gentlemen's club tradition. Our petite size collections are perfectly proportioned for smaller spaces.
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- Depth: 34"
- Height: 30"
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Chapter is out: http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/53902026/1
l5l Excellent
l4l Great
l3l Average
l2l Bad
l1l Terrible
Chapter is out: http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/53902026/1
Last edited by Jaiden; 06-09-2012 at 04:14 AM.
Manga reading list: Bleach, Naruto, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, One Piece, Code Breaker, Gamaran, Kuroko No Basket, Fairy Tail, The World God Only Knows, Kimi No Iru Machi, Good Ending, Medaka Box, Nisekoi, D.Gray-Man, Ao No Exorcist, Freezing, Magi - Labyrinth of Magic, Soul Eater, Rosario Vampire Season II, Iris Zero, Ubell Blatt, Bloody Cross, Sun-Ken Rock, and Infinite Stratos,
what a chapter? No wonder those raven bastards were addressing Alexei with 'sama'. He was Iwan afterall.
But is luxus really going to take on all of them? I guess we will finally see what Obra's magic really is. Plus that thing the ravens want is probably what makarov showed gildartz beneath the guild. luxux probably doesn't know either but he became extra cool with this line "master's enemies are my enemies. anyway, great chapter."
__________________________________________________ __________________________
Currently planning war strategies at a tea party with Madara, Kabuto, Zetsu and Sasuke.
So that's what RT is after and not Laxus himself. Too bad they got the wrong man. Now that I have think of it I wish we get an appearance from Gildartz here and let's see if they could squeeze the information out of him.
The illusion magic is impressive as well. Even fooling Mavis? I'm guessing it's the work of Obra.
I'm giving Laxus little chance here. He's facing someone who knows him well after all. He could put all his magic on one single shot to at least disrupt the illusion though so that the others would notice.
Awesome chap. Mashima is on a roll here.
sig made by me
But I don't think we've seen the serious laxus, Iwan was kicked out years ago so I doubt his aware of the full extent of his power now. I think this whole time laxus has been holding back even against Natsu.
This should be an interesting fight, He'll take out all the guild members the real fight will be between him and Iwan.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
Currently planning war strategies at a tea party with Madara, Kabuto, Zetsu and Sasuke.
Things are really starting to look good
And there were people complaining before.... But ultimately Fairy Tail continue to be one nice Manga to read!
I was hoping to see a bit more of the fight between Laxus and RT but hopefully next week's chapter will be just that. Overall, a splendid chapter.
The answer to Master Iwan's illusions is Erza. Her artificial eye can see through illusions just like when ahe defeated midnight in the Oracion Seis arc.


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Skip to comments.Amid Bachmann controversy, many Christians cool to conversion therapy for gays
Posted on 07/18/2011 10:35:28 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
When presidential candidate Michele Bachmanns husband, Marcus, addressed accusations that his Christian counseling business encourages homosexual clients to try to change their sexual orientation, he appeared to play down the role of so-called conversion therapy at his clinics.
"Is it a remedy form that I typically would use? Bachmann told Minnesotas Star Tribune newspaper. It is at the client's discretion.
"We don't have an agenda or a philosophy of trying to change someone," Bachmann said, noting that such therapy was not a focus of his two clinics.
Bachmanns seeming ambivalence about conversion therapy - sometimes called reparative therapy - after a weeks worth of news stories that raised questions about whether his clinics promote the practice may illustrate a broader trend in the conservative Christian subculture.
While many evangelicals once viewed conversion therapy as key way to deal with homosexuality, many of the religious movement's leaders and organizations have cooled to the practice in recent years, as more science suggests that homosexuality may be innate and as new therapeutic approaches have emerged.
Evangelicals, in quiet ways, are shifting to this position to where there is just not a lot of support for the change paradigm, said Warren Throckmorton, an influential voice in the world of Christian counseling, referring to so-called change therapy.
In the late 1990s, the debate was clearly, Could gays change from being gay? and the focus was on orientation, and it was a big part of politics, said Throckmorton, an associate professor of psychology at Grove City College, an evangelical school in Pennsylvania.
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
I wish everyone would stop backing down to fags and other perpetually offended groups.
we must accept that parading your perversions around is normal.
Therapy implies to me that the person is mentally ill and in need of cognitive change.
I'm not much of a fan of "therapy" for this either, although I don't oppose it. I can certainly see that biblical counseling and accountability could help a motivated sinner.
That's what it is. Sin. Like any other sexual sin. I don't think sin needs "therapy."
"as more science suggests that homosexuality may be innate and as new therapeutic approaches have emerged."
What science? And if it's innate, why is there a need for therapeutic approaches at all?
The problem is unwillingness to call a spade a spade: it's unnatural by its very definition, it harms those involved, and it's morally reprehensible.
Remember "Lesbian Chic"? It was a fad in the late 1980's fueled by rampant Cocaine use. First the girls gave up the Blow and then they became Born Again.
"science suggests that homosexuality may be innate and as new therapeutic approaches have emerged."
There is no scientific support whatsoever for the so called "gay gene". Asserting that homosexual behavior is innate and the individual has no control over it denies the principle of free will and the basic difference between men and animals.
Animals have no control over their sexual desires. Human beings do.
"Male mice bred without serotonin lose their preference for females, a report in Nature says."
Well, we now know why Christ warned us to "Remember Lot's wife." All she did on her way out of Sodomy was look back longingly and she became a sack of salt... Christ did say I have foretold you all things, and course He was NOT accepted then and He also said that as this flesh age winds down the majority would NOT accept Him in those days.
Why does God even bother to breathe life into these creatures?
If it is not being forced upon the gays then the left should shut the heck up about this. I thought they were "pro choice" and all. If someone who is gay wants to choose not to be gay then it this decision. Or course this runs against the whole left paradigm of "We are always right and you are too stupid to run your own life".
I'm really not sure what they are saying. Everyone of us was born with a sin nature. Some to theft, lying, lust, adultery, drunkeness, homosexuality, etc... Are they saying Christians shouldn't try to help people trapped in the chains of sin to break free?
Freedom comes through the work of God.
God the Son said, 'he who the Son sets free will be free indeed'.
And God the Holy Spirit works with the repentant sinner to enable him to be clean.
What did God mean when He said, 'Be ye Holy for I am Holy'? Do we get a pass because of our sin nature?
What did the Holy Spirit, working through Paul, mean in His exhortation in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Should His last verse have been: 'And such ARE some of you. You were born that way ... fuggetaboutit...'?
These people (if they are truly presenting themselves as 'Evangelists' -- or are merely inventions of the Satan owned Media) are just encouraging people to take the wide road to hell.
The Bachmann's are not roaming the streets, rounding up gays, and forcing them to repent.
They merely offer help to those seeking it.
I know of some instances where gays were born again, and while some may have continued to struggle with temptations, they were able to live happy, healthy lives free of homosexual acts.
I don't think this media witch hunt will hurt Michelle.
I think this is an absolutely fatal mistake for any candidate to make and no one should vote for Marcus Bachman for president.
Homosexuality was listed as a disorder in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of the APA until l973 when it was declassified as a mental disorder. This declassification was totally due to political pressure and not scientific research.
So, as far as I am concerned, homosexuality is a disorder akin to alcoholism, an eating disorder, OCD, etc. Until proven (scientifically) otherwise.
So in that sense it is treatable, but just like any disorder the person has to want to change.
I am saddened by the rhetoric sometimes on this board. I don't see the point in calling people who have a disorder "sinners"... we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. If someone has an eating disorder, they are sinning when they eat too much (gluttony), but so what? If someone is a homosexual, so what?
The issue is not with homosexuality and the homosexual, the issue is that our society seems to REVERE it now. And in that reverence is going so far as to pass laws to the detriment of society. Homosexual marriage means the State is legislating that children be denied either a mother or a father. Legislating it.
My point is that MB seems to have a heart to want to help people who want to be healed from the disorder called homosexuality. Good for her. We can't allow the media to excoriate her for doing so. But we also can't keep up the name calling and rejection of people who are homosexuals. It's pointless and damaging to us and them.
Of course, at the base of it, is desperate fear. If someone successfully escapes the "happy" life, then they must look at themselves and ask the question, "do I actually have a choice?" If so, then the house of cards that is the victim mindset comes tumbling down and the person become responsible for their life choices.
That is a terrifying proposition to most -- much easier to try and expand the "closet" and force others to accept your lifestyle through laws and intimidation than look in the mirror...
As we're all sinners to a greater or lesser degree, God apparently chose them to live as well.
This is one of the many compromises Christians have made since they traded their sword (KJB) in for a garden tool (NIV NKJV etc.)
RE: This is one of the many compromises Christians have made since they traded their sword (KJB) in for a garden tool (NIV NKJV etc.)
What does the NIV and/or NKJV say about Homosexuality that the KJB does not say?
Put it another way, what NIV or NKJV say that is DIFFERENT from the KJB?
RE: no one should vote for Marcus Bachman for president.
If Michele supports Marcus, are you also saying that no one should vote for Michele Bachmann for President?
"All she did on her way out of Sodomy was look back longingly and she became a sack of salt... "
What did her being turned into salt have to do with sodomy? Not much.
What is salt? It's inorganic; it doesn't change; you can "dissolve" it in water, or mix it into something, it still remains unchanged, as salt.
Lot's wife did not long for sodomy. She longed for the lifestyle Lot was able to provide for her. She was not wanting and willing to head out into a future with no guarantees. G-d had a deeper purpose for Lot and his family and change was the first part of that.
"Looking back" is failing to change, failing to accept change, failing to be allow yourself to be led by G-d into an unknown future.
That's why Lot's wife was turned into "salt" (as opposed to being turned into something else) - for desiring to remain fixed and unchanged, even when G-d's will seeks that change for you.
Why does God even bother to breathe life into these creatures?
Absolutely frikkin' hilarious. Your question above coupled with your tagline: ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
Sorry, but that's the kind of stuff that has me LOL.
Ah God gave her a way out of Sodomy to 'live', but she was NOT willing to live... because she did not heed the warning... God was going to destroy the heap and yet for whatever purpose He had planned, gave this woman the opportunity to be saved and she for whatever excuse looked back at 'home' longingly... Now it is most curious that Christ took the time to remind any who will to 'remember Lot's wife'.
"Why does God even bother to breathe life into these creatures?"
Perhaps to show us how desperately off track we as human beings are.
This is a long debate which I don't want to get into. This issue is settled with me and for most everyone on the other side as well. I'll tell you some of the things I know and if you're really interested in coming at the truth you'll find your way to it.
Regardless of what those versions say about this subject:
A) The attitude which states "how the Bible says what it says is irrelevant." Easily evolved into "what the Bible says is irrelevant."
B) What those version change and leave out in some places causes an overall want of truth and want of power within those movements who adopt them and to all Christianity.
C) The very existence of those versions casts doubt on the infallibility and importance of God's Word.
All three, there are more, lead us to where we are now: "Standards don't matter, sin doesn't matter, Satan is not trying to corrupt us through media, music doesn't matter, soteriology doesn't matter, what the Bible says doesn't matter."
"We, as a society can change what the Bible says to fit with the times." Satan's thesis statement which is shared by all of the translators of the new versions.
"I dont see the point in calling people who have a disorder sinners."
I disagree, Reddy, I don't think it is helpful to call sinful inclinations or behaviors "disorders." That isn't what God calls them.
I think it is actually more helpful to those involved in one sin or a another to have it properly labelled. Calling it a "disorder" absolves you of personal responsibility. Calling it what it is - a sin - calls you to repentance.
I do agree hatred is not necessary. But it is not loving to talk about a man's sin as though it is epilepsy.
You go to hell for indulging in sexual sin. You don't go to hell for have eczema.
There is a difference between a sin and a disorder.
Because there is no real choice in liberalism. That's why they now say being a homo is genetic, so you can never go back.
I understand what you are saying, but disagree.
For instance, using eczema as an comparison is a poor analogy. We're talking about a disorder of the mind, a biological disorder, not a skin condition.
Just common sense tells you that homosexuals are different (disordered) from "typical" humans. It's a disorder that manifests in the mind, either through chemical changes or genetics or whatever, no one knows yet. It's evidenced in behavior. The female characteristics in males and male characteristics in females. Simple knowledge of anatomy indicates that men are not supposed to have sex with men. But the homosexual is drawn to that, I believe through no fault of their own. In comparison, an alcoholic is drawn to alcohol even while knowing that they cannot tolerate the chemical and it will eventually destroy their lives.
The DSM of the APA labeled homosexuality as a disorder (prior to l973). I believe it is, there is no scientific proof otherwise.
Anyway, as you can tell by some of the posts on this thread, "Christians" have a long way to go before they understand that calling someone a sinner does not draw them to Christ.
should say "a PSYCHOLOGICAL" disorder.
"because she did not heed the warning... "
It was not "G-ds warning 'about the destruction' it was G-d's warning "to not look back".
The warning and its purpose would have applied (in the spirit applies) to any circumstance for which it was/could have been/is given. The specific lesson to lot and his family WAS a "warning to not look back"; to not hold on to the comfort of a life you have when G-d is leading your life through change.
Narrow is the gate. This is simply exposing the FACT that although most Americans claim they are Christian, they are in fact, not.
If you believe in God, who made the heavens and the earth, who called it forth from nothing can't change a homosexual's life, then you have no faith. End of story.
Good points, Wuli. I had never considered the question of "why salt?" in just this way ... thanks!
RE: A) The attitude which states how the Bible says what it says is irrelevant. Easily evolved into what the Bible says is irrelevant.
I don't see how that follows. I've read both King James and NIV and I don't see ANY difference in what translations say about Homosexuality.
If someone does not want to obey scripture, he/she won't regardless of which translation is presented.
RE: B) What those version change and leave out in some places causes an overall want of truth and want of power within those movements who adopt them and to all Christianity.
But how do you know that these later version CHANGE or LEAVE out things? Could it not be that we have more manuscripts today and as a result of our comparing manuscript with manuscript the later translations actually CLARIFY things?
What major doctrine is affected by the omission of a word for instance that has not been clarified by other verses?
I don't see how ANY major doctrine of Christianity has been compromised by the NIV or the NKJV at all.
RE: C)The very existence of those versions casts doubt on the infallibility and importance of Gods Word.
Why should they? If any, they are wonderful testimony to the PRESERVATION of God's word and His Providence in making His word inteligible to people who speak modern English.
"Anyway, as you can tell by some of the posts on this thread, Christians have a long way to go before they understand that calling someone a sinner does not draw them to Christ."
Reddy, Jesus called people sinners.
Be not conformed to this world.
If it was something you could not help, you would not be liable for hell for it. God isn't like that.
You can repent of homosexuality. You can repent of alcohol abuse. You can repent of fornication and adultery, too. It is not something that "happens" to you as you innocently sit by. It is chosen, sinful behavior.
Shall I say I was created heterosexual so I get to go fornicate? I can't do that.
I for one support this. I have seen it work first hand with the son of a friend who was also addicted to drugs for many years. Now, he has finally turned his life around. He is straight, Christian, conservative and proud of it.
If you can infer that from what I wrote, you should try out for the Olympic broad jump squad. What I clearly meant was that Marcus is free to pursue his interest and that Michele is free to pursue hers. I don't believe she possesses or claims to possess and counseling credentials. She is not accountable for her husband's work.
There are a lot of great resources on this. I'm not one of them. Did you know there was a lesbian working with the NIV translators? Her job was to make sure the style made sense to modern readers.
Matthew 17:21 KJB This kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Matthew 17:21 NIV Omitted
There are a lot of these.
But aside from all of that you have to ask, who benefits most from changing the Word of God? If the KJB is the Word of God, why change it, if not, God is a liar. The originals? There are no originals.
If Christianity is in steep decline, as evidence by this article, could it be that we've accepted a corrupt revelation? If we have accepted a corrupt revelation, what would have been the consequence and would it be any different from what we're seeing? Why, instead of Moody, Sunday, Spurgeon, Hudson Taylor, William Carey, Judson and Bob Jones do we have TD Jakes, Osteen, Kirk Cameron, Franklin Graham, and Bob Jones III? What changed and why?
RE: Did you know there was a lesbian working with the NIV translators? Her job was to make sure the style made sense to modern readers.
1) Did you know that there was a member of the KJV Westminster Hebrew translating committee by the name of Richard "Dutch" Thomson? He was known as a "'debauched drunken English Dutchman who seldom went to bed one night sober'"
Yet, I do not doubt that inspite of the fact that he had this sinful weakness, the KJV was a splendid translation.
2) Where in the NIV do we have this lesbians influence when it comes to accepting the homosexual lifestyle?
Show me the specific chapter and verse because I READ the NIV and just like the KJV, it is pretty clear to me :
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. " (Leviticus 18:22)
By Lesbian, I believe you are referring to Virginia Ramey Mollenkott.
The problem was, Mollenkott once moved in evangelical circles and gave every impression of being one herself. But she started questioning the biblical teachings on the roles of men and women, and eventually apostatized completely.
Her slippery slide is documented by Mary A. Kassian in her excellent book "The Feminist Gospel : The Movement to Unite Feminism With the Church". So the NIV hired her as a stylistic consultant in good faith, and dropped her when her heresy became known.
To show that her views didn't influence the KJV on moral issues, and that the idea that the NIV is soft on homosexuality is arrant nonsense, see this extract from Romans 1:24-28
"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
Here, homosexual acts are called:
* sinful desires of their hearts
* sexual impurity
* degrading of their bodies
* shameful lusts
* unnatural relations
* indecent acts
* perversion
* the result of a depraved mind that's rejected the knowledge of God.
I don't see how this lesbian had any influence on the NIV at all.
"I think this is an absolutely fatal mistake for any candidate to make and no one should vote for Marcus Bachman for president."
If the MSM wants to go after First Mates, they should start with the current squatter in the people's White House. Michelle is even angrier and more radical than BHO, if they'd ever look at & report her history, speeches, writings and affiliations.
Of course, they won't.
RE: She is not accountable for her husbands work.
I believe she SUPPORTS her husband's work. That tells me that she BELIEVES in what he does.
But so what? Does this disqualify her from being President?
Only the PC types would think that.
Post of the day!
Why don't we have those threads any more??? I tried to start one months ago and the mods pulled it. I am not a favorite apparently.
"She is not accountable for her husbands work."
Except that when she gives speeches, she often says she and her husband are business owners and I'm assuming the Bachmann Clinic is the one to which she refers.
"Why, instead of Moody, Sunday, Spurgeon, Hudson Taylor, William Carey, Judson and Bob Jones do we have TD Jakes, Osteen, Kirk Cameron, Franklin Graham, and Bob Jones III?"
I would NOT lump Kirk Cameron in with Jakes or Osteen. I'm very familiar with him, his work, his faith and family values, and the great sacrifices he's made as an adult in his acting career to remain true to his faith and principles. Ditto for his wife who gave hers up to raise their children. They're loving parents with a sweet family. His public debates with atheists can be seen all over youube. He put a lot of his own money into the Left Behind movies based on the book series by Jerry Jenkins and Dr. Tim LeHaye about the Tribulation and prophecies of Revelations.
Unlike the generic Joel Osteen and T.D. Jakes, Kirk Cameron is unafraid to talk about Christ as Savior, and does so often. He's talked honestly about his immaturity as an adolescent actor, and has since developed into a fine Christian man.
It's about who should pay for it. They love taxpayer dollars. Do as I say not as I do.
>>> You go to hell for indulging in sexual sin. You dont go to hell for have eczema.
Maybe you do. There has to be a reason the Devil is also known as Old Scratch.
You're right about Kirk Cameron, he's a better Christian than me, but his ministry is limited by a watered down bible in a watered down generation. Before English speaking people started questioning the accuracy of the Word, the English speaking people were winning the world for Christ.
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text:
You've probably seen the mason jars, wrapped with hearts and baker's twine ALL over Pinterest.
I wanted my own version!
I used several sizes of glass jars and milk bottles, wrapped them with paper doilies and cut-out hearts, and tied them up with red & white baker's twine.
Then I punched out some little hearts and glued them together on the tips of some bamboo skewers (you know ... the shish-ka-bob ones!?).
Finally, I slid them inside some hot-pink and white striped papers straws .... totally cute!


text:
A Clinical Study to Assess the Efficacy and Safety of GSK2402968 in Subjects With Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy (DMD114044)
This study has been completed.
Information provided by (Responsible Party):
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
First received: October 21, 2010
Last updated: October 23, 2014
Last verified: October 2014
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
The purpose of this study is to determine whether GSK2402968 is effective in the treatment of ambulant boys with Duchenne muscular dystrophy resulting from a mutation thought to be corrected by exon 51 skipping.
Muscular Dystrophies
Drug: GSK2402968 6mg/kg/week
Phase 3
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Allocation: Randomized
Intervention Model: Single Group Assignment
Masking: Double Blind (Subject, Caregiver, Investigator, Outcomes Assessor)
Primary Purpose: Treatment
|Official Title:
|A Phase III, Randomized, Double Blind, Placebo-controlled Clinical Study to Assess the Efficacy and Safety of GSK2402968 in Subjects With Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy
Resource links provided by NLM:
Genetics Home Reference related topics: Duchenne and Becker muscular dystrophy
MedlinePlus related topics: Muscular Dystrophy
Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center resources: Muscular Dystrophy Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy Becker Muscular DystrophyU.S. FDA Resources
Further study details as provided by GlaxoSmithKline:
Primary Outcome Measures:
- To assess the efficacy of subcutaneous 6 mg/kg GSK2402968 versus placebo; specifically to have 90% power to detect a difference in 6MWD between GSK2402968 and placebo of 30 meters, assuming a common standard deviation of 55meters [ Time Frame: one year ]
Secondary Outcome Measures:
- To evaluate the safety and tolerability of subcutaneous 6 mg/kg GSK2402968 with respect to AEs, ECG results, vital signs and laboratory tests [ Time Frame: one year ]
- Plasma concentration of subcutaneous 6 mg/kg GSK2402968 calculated at each time point for each subject (sample size (n), mean, standard deviation (SD), percentage of coefficient of variation (%CV), geometric mean, median, minimum, and maximum [ Time Frame: one year ]
- To evaluate the difference on quality of life of between GSK2402968 and placebo using PedsQOL, CGI-I and HUI [ Time Frame: one year ]
|Study Start Date:
|December 2010
|Study Completion Date:
|June 2013
|Primary Completion Date:
|June 2013 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)
|Assigned Interventions
Experimental: GSK2402968
Drug: GSK2402968 6mg/kg/week
Experimental: Placebo
Drug: GSK2402968 6mg/kg/week
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|5 Years and older (Child, Adult, Senior)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
Inclusion Criteria:
- Ambulant subjects with Duchenne muscular dystrophy resulting from a mutation/deletion within the DMD gene, confirmed by a state-of-the-art DNA diagnostic technique covering all DMD gene exons, including but not limited to MLPA (Multiplex Ligation-dependent Probe Amplification), CGH (Comparative Genomic Hybridisation), SCAIP (Single Condition Amplification/Internal Primer) or H-RMCA (High-Resolution Melting Curve Analysis), and correctable by GSK2402968-induced DMD exon 51 skipping.
- Males, aged at least 5 years, and with life expectancy of at least 1 year
- Able to complete 6MWD test with minimal distance of at least 75m at each predrug visit. In addition, results of 6MWD must be within 20% of each other at each pre-drug visit
- Receiving glucocorticoids for a minimum of 6 months immediately prior to screening, with no significant change in total daily dosage or dosing regimen for a minimum of 3 months immediately prior to screening and a reasonable expectation that total daily dosage and dosing regimen will not change significantly for the duration of the study
- QTc <450msec (based on single or average QTc value of triplicate ECGs obtained over a brief recording period), or <480 msec for subjects with Bundle Branch Block. Note: QTc may be either QTcB or QTcF, and machine read or manual overread.
- Subjects, where appropriate, must be willing to use adequate contraception (condoms or abstinence) for the duration of the study and for at least 5 months after the last dose of study drug.
- Willing and able to comply with all protocol requirements and procedures,
- Able to give informed assent and/or consent in writing signed by the subject and/or parent(s)/legal guardian (according to local regulations).
- French subjects: In France, a subject will be eligible for inclusion in this study only if either affiliated to or a beneficiary of a social security category.
Exclusion Criteria:
- Any additional missing exon for DMD that cannot be treated with GSK2402968
- Current or history of liver or renal disease or impairment
- Acute illness within 4 weeks of the first anticipated administration of study medication which may interfere with study assessments
- Use of anticoagulants, antithrombotics or antiplatelet agents, previous treatment with investigational drugs, within 6 months of the first administration of study medication; and idebenone or other forms of Coenzyme Q10 within 1 month of the first administration of study medication.
- Current or anticipated participation in any investigational clinical studies
- Positive hepatitis B surface antigen, hepatitis C antibody test (if verified via RIBA or PCA testing), or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) test at screening,
- Symptomatic cardiomyopathy. If subject has a left ventricular ejection fraction <45% at Screening, the investigator should discuss inclusion of subject in the study with the medical monitor,
- Children in Care. The definition of a Child in Care is a child who has been placed under the control or protection of an agency, organisation, institution or entity by the courts, the government or a government body, acting in accordance with powers conferred on them by law or regulation. The definition of a child in care can include a child cared for by foster parents or living in a care home or institution, provided that the arrangement falls within the definition above. The definition of a child in care does not include a child who is adopted or has an appointed legal guardian.
Contacts and Locations
Choosing to participate in a study is an important personal decision. Talk with your doctor and family members or friends about deciding to join a study. To learn more about this study, you or your doctor may contact the study research staff using the Contacts provided below. For general information, see Learn About Clinical Studies.
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01254019
Show 47 Study Locations
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01254019
Show 47 Study Locations
Sponsors and Collaborators
|Study Director:
|GSK Clinical Trials
More Information
Keywords provided by GlaxoSmithKline:
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on February 24, 2017
|Responsible Party:
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT01254019 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|October 21, 2010
|Last Updated:
|October 23, 2014
Keywords provided by GlaxoSmithKline:
Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
Muscular Dystrophies
Muscular Dystrophy, Duchenne
Muscular Disorders, Atrophic
Muscular Diseases
Musculoskeletal Diseases
Neuromuscular Diseases
Nervous System Diseases
Genetic Diseases, Inborn
Genetic Diseases, X-Linked
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on February 24, 2017