text:
[[Dead and Loving it]]
Created by Polish studio, People can Fly and published by Dreamcatcher, Painkiller is best described as a fast-paced, first-person horror shooter.
From what we have seen so far the game has been created with the classic FPS games, especially Doom and Serious Sam, in mind but with an intense desire to create an original adrenaline-fueled experience.
To call Painkiller a sleeper hit would be unjust since the game definitely has the pedigree to become as big as any other title. The game however, has gained a lot of publicity by doing something most big-time titles have not been able to achieve; by being on-time. The delays and variety of problems which have plagued big FPS games like Doom 3 and Half-Life 2, have helped Painkiller and its publisher hog the gaming industry's limelight. Having written that, you have to consider that it still isn't plain sailing for Daniel Garner, since competition will be strong with games like Far Cry and UT 2004 on the way, an indication of how strong and competitive the market has become.
Although Painkiller focuses on twitching trigger-fingers and overall mayhem, what really adds to the experience is the eerie backdrop, against which this theatre of the after-life performs. There is a clear gothic element throughout the game which is backed up by chanting sound effects and creepy music, creating an intense and gripping atmosphere which makes it all work. Although Painkiller does not profess to contain an extremely intricate plot or character build-up, it manages to blend the hectic action, the story, environments and characters into an explosive mixture which drives the gamer on and on and on... Every aspect of the game gels so well with all other elements that you instantly know that the developers got the chemistry just right.
Painkiller will become available on April 12, 2004.
You play as Daniel Garner, a seemingly regular guy, who has just been killed in an horrific car accident. Trapped between heaven and hell you struggle to find out why you've been denied entry into heaven.
Awaiting your purification, you have to fight your way through a horde of demon soldiers in order to prevent an unholy war.
Read on to find out what Painkiller has going for it under the hood.
At the heart of Painkiller lies a proprietary 3D engine, created by People can Fly. Even a quick look at the game will leave you satisfied that the engine is up to the task.
PAIN, that is what PcF have named their engine, gives out an extremely high polygon count and textures of very high quality, while using all the latest lighting and shadowing techniques, including effects like soft shadows, DOT3 bump mapping, water reflections, glass simulation and volumetric light and fog. What all this jargon basically means is that Painkiller has some sweet visuals and that PAIN can dish out eyecandy as fast as your graphics board can handle it.
What is also impressive is the amount of detail and work that has gone into the creation of the environments. The game features 24 single-player levels and each is entirely unique with almost no texture reuse between levels. The average level is 350,000 polygons, monsters are 3,000 - 4,000 polygons while boss monsters will have 8,000+ polygons. The textures are also very high-resolution with an average of 1024x1024 with bosses being 2x2048x2048. Enemies will also have advanced bump mapping and lighting models including specular lighting.
Having a good 3D Engine is a necessary step when attempting to create a good game but what really adds that extra blockbuster feel to the game is the use of the Havok 2.0 physics engine.
Havok 2.0 has quickly become an industry standard with games like Half-Life 2 and Max Payne 2 licensing it but Painkiller offers by far the best use of
the engine so far. As soon as you load-up the game, you can't help but notice the prolific use of the physics engine. Within a minute of gameplay you will have been struck by flailing limbs (sometimes not even attached to a body) or by exploding barrels which you also have to watch out for when they land. Hanged men will shake if hit by projectiles while some bosses will hurl dead monsters at you making full use of Havok's, well known by now, ragdoll effects.
Some will be tempted to scream overkill for the use of Havok in Painkiller but like everything else in this game the physics also seem to be just right.
Combine impressive and highly detailed environments, with the physics and the powerful 3D engine and you get a completely immersing and addictive experience.
Read on to find out how Painkiller will utilize its technology in order to enhance the gaming experience.
As mentioned earlier the game will have 24 single-player levels, each will have its own boss monsters and one major boss monster. The player will have a choice of five weapons, each with a distinct alternative fire option. The story blends with the gameplay as you collect the souls of each monster you shoot, adding one point to your overall health. Once you have collected 100 souls you turn into a demon for a short while, exterminating all enemies in your path.
There is very little finesse involved in the way Painkiller plays, this is NOT a stealth or strategy game. This is pure unadulterated, unrelenting, explosive, in-your-face action. This action will keep you tense and your trigger finger twitching while the endless, constantly respawning, enemies keep you busy at all times.
Although the action is intense, there is some use of intelligence needed and that is what can decide if you make it to the next level or not. Using the barrels and firework-like explosives, for example, can help you to get rid of multiple enemies while conserving your ammunition.
An eagerly anticipated feature of Painkiller is the multiplayer mode which promises a variety of innovations.
There will be five multiplayer modes for the game played over 7 maps and according to current information, it will support 32 players. The modes are as follows:
The objective in Deathmatch is to kill as many enemies as possible within a set time limit.
Team Deathmatch
A mutation of the deathmatch mode which pits teams of a set number of players against each other, each trying to get most kills.
People can Fly
A modification of deathmatch one-on-one relying heavily on physics based multiplay. Equipped with the Rocket Launcher/Chaingun, you can only score damage against your enemy when he's on the air. You can use your rockets to send them flying and your chaingun to finish them off.
In Voosh mode each player will have the same weapons as all other players. After a set or random time interval (server regulated) the weapons will change for everyone. This mode will give all weapons infinite ammo and will be played over two exclusive maps.
The Light Bearer
In Light Bearer, Quad damage never wears off, this is a capture-the-flag type of multiplayer mode. The first player who grabs it can use it until he dies, this should happen fairly quickly as all other players should team-up on the Quad Bearer. The winner is the person who has the Quad when time is up.
There is a wealth of gameplay options for Painkiller which promise to give the game some replay value, options which will be necessary since it is very linear.
Read on to find out what Megagames has to say about Painkiller.
[[Final Thought]]
Painkiller offers a pleasant change from what is rapidly becoming the blockbuster game norm of arrogant developers and clueless publishers. The title has been developed openly and even when the process was facing problems such as the recent leaked version, no one over-reacted.
The game itself stays true to the simplest form of gameplay, that of all-out action FPS. Every aspect of the game is highly polished and the whole effort blends together creating a seamless amalgam offering sheer gaming delight.
Beyond pompous descriptions and written praise, Painkiller is a product of hard work and love. Just by looking at the game you know that People can Fly really enjoyed working on it and that a lot of TLC went into its creation.
By now most of you, if not all, have already tried the demo so this is not an empty review heaping praise on an unknown quantity, I am certain that even if this game is not your kind of entertainment, if you try the demo you may find that you will lose your soul to it.
If you haven't yet sampled Painkiller, you can get the demo from Megagames.
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I played the alpha and the proper demo and I loved it! cant wait for the full version to come out.The graphics are ereally good and it plays fast. The physics could be called over the top by some, but its so funny to staple the crippled zombies heads to the floor as they crawl around sounding completely monged out!I will buy this over UT2004
wow...... This game has everything. Graphics, sound, athmosphere and most of all its **** fun. This demo rocks big time.. The doom3 demo everyone tried a year ago sucked. Major boring if you ask me. If doom 3 is as ****** as the alha leak than by god this game will be the new doom3 for 2004.
I'm Laughing Man.And I'm not f*cking happy.Who made this sh*t?The KKK?The Republicans?Either way it's pure evil and we must unite, fight, and kill Lucasarts.Sorry, I got distracted......anyways these f*cks have gone too far!There is no need for devil worshipping in games anymore.Enough with pseudo-noir, pseudo-apocalyptic pseudo-games that are more than pseudo-crap.Yes, these games may have 2390008 pixels per square inch, but half of them are f*cking black!Kiss Psycho Circus can kiss my ***, and Max Payne, go mix metaphors with your jail-bait girlfriend MARTHA STEWART!What's with the B.S Megagames are spewing out about this being popular for being released ON TIME?Sounds a bit suss to me, in fact I think these mo-fos made the game.IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!THEY'RE TRYING TO BRAINWASH US.All these years they've been strategically sabotaging HL2, Doom3, and my precious Duke Nukem Forever!I put a f*cking dollar aside in a bank account every day I felt DNF should already be out.That account has $45 000 in it!True, about half of that is compound interest, but the point is that 3D Realms have given me a f*cking pension...no wait, I've just lost the plot.But, you gotta admit this game looks sh*t!
Although some Counter Strike fan bum f**k boys will say "OH BUT THIS GAME IS ****!" thats only because that like to give Gabe Newell some serious ***.Painkiller is the *FIRST* 3D Shooter Demo to actually include Karma Physics. WHY IS THIS GOOD YOU ASK? Because the Havok Engine or Karma physics makes in game actions correspond with real time physics :)What are physics you ask? THE WAY OBJECTS REACT TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT.COUNTER STRIKE => KARMA PHYSICS? => NO!PAINKILLER => KARMA PHYSICS => BEFORE THE HL2 DEMO WAS EVER RELEASED? => YES :)PAINKILLER just did what Half Life 2 tried to do back in November 2003?Valve > FailureDreamcatcher > WinWhos laughing now? GABE :) Oh dear HL2 source got leaked what a shame :) Sorry we have to cancel the game release until like *never* or *when ever*Opps very bad mistake Painkiller is going to be released and own your sorry *** chronically.So for all those ****** CS Players... They can f**k off.DID WE FORGET TO MENTION BUNNY HOPPING? THATS RIGHT SUSAN YES WE DID!PAINKILLER ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES BUNNY HOPPING? HALF LIFE > CS > BUNNY HOPPING > STUNTED LIKE A RED HEADED STEP CHILD
Why is it that CS Players have no balls and no clue you ask?Well its simple: They are lead to believe that a real product is something that has unrealistic goals, weaponary and above all players.What were we playing in the CPL 2001 - February in the BYOC area? WE WERE PLAYING SERIOUS SAM?WHY IS THIS FUN? You ask? Because maybe shooting hoards and hoards of monsters is fun.BUT UNCLE AMAZING! WE DON'T WANT TO SHOOT HOARDS AND HOARDS OF MONSTERS... WE ARE ****** CS KIDDIES AND WE BREED WITH GOATS.Does the above statement mean anything to you?CS > GOAT BREEDER NOW DROP YOUR PANTS AND GIVE THE ALPACA 20!Zombies are more f**king original that any game I have ever played.I don't think many CS players or bad step kids have heard of a little game called BLOOD or BLOOD 2.Play that then come back and tell me about original zombies for f**ks sake.ITS DESIGNED TO BE A HORROR FIRST PERSON SHOOTER GET A f**kING CLUE.WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD CALL IT "EVIL BIKER DUDE KILLS THE LOLLYPOP LADY" I DON'T f**kING THINK SO.Finally there is a simple message for the CS Community and people who come from that ilk. WE OF THE QUAKE 3, TEAM FORTRESS CLASSIC AND QUAKE 1 COMMUNITIES DON'T NEED YOUR BREED ROUND HERE GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM FOR ƒUCKS SAKE!
Even if you dont like the Single Player, the shear physics of this game will make you **** your pants, I can stake zombies to a wall, WHAT OTHER GAME DOES THAT!!!Plus, the multiplayer should kick you in the crotch, fast pace multiplayer is the ****, some of the best multiplayer i've played was in Quake 3 Arena, f**k realism, if you want realism go join the **** Marine Core, cant get anymore real than that.
now to flame at all u f**ks that r questioning the originality of the gme => yeah, the zonbie concept has been used before, but shooting zombies with a wooden stake gun? like wtf, where have u seen that before. Oh and haven't u noticed how each level (well there's only 3in the demo) is totally different than the other one's; no monssters are re-used from one level to another, not even textures are re-used. Each level is totally unique -> monsters arespecially made to fit the sinister mood of each level, and each level has its own textures that aren't used in any of the other levels.
Newsflash for all you n00bs, thinking that Domm 3 HL2 etc will be like two weeks on Phuket, take my advice if you want a addictive game yet sexy effects go for Daikatana, can honestly say that i LUV just kicking it.And i can admit i will probably try Doom 3 but i aint gonna pay for a friggin 1 ghz cpu with a gf4 ti4200, i´ll wait until they port it for my sweet ol´gameboy, cheaper that way.OK then.Thats all for today.
ah yeah, f*ucking kick *** game if this dont win an awward i will be ******.HL2 i want Doom3 i want but they r taking too long so screw em for now. also gives me nuf time to get more money to buy them.painkiller rocks i love the weapons stake a zombie oh yeah i love it, just finding them already dead dudes and giving them an extra long dong and even whith them not being alive u can blast off a few limbs so oh yeah u gotta love this game its the dogs *bollo*ks, CS go run back to your goat heratage, goat people play cs even years and years after it has been released CS can go screw a duck with a goat in a threesom.
1st thing: DL'ed the demo, runned and ... i couldn't stop playing it till few hours !! f***ing awesome!!Then my friend told me PK are making ppl from my country, i couldn't believe it :D It'll be IMO 1st so good game made by PL :D2nd --> u haven't said anything about one more nice little feature - tarot cards :D In demo u can only use 2 of them (mayby more, but i could't unlock them ie by ending 2nd lvl without armor, but on "daydream" - i'll try on insomania :P). Small thing but adds some more fun to the game (little "rpg").Thats all, cu in final ver :D --> mp ;>


text: This was being suggested in the RL game thread, and I just wanted to gauge public opinion. Obviously anyone is better than Joe Mays. Aaron threw less than 120 his previous outing vs. the Rockies, and only 51 tonight, so does he get the call on Sunday on 3 days rest?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
MAX 6 – weird screen refresh bug
i tested max 6 and came upon a weird problem. after searching the forum i couldn't find another thread pointing to this issue, so i wonder if it's related to my computer specifically:
when running max 6 for a while, at some point the user interface stops being refreshed.
eg. for msp based patches clicking ui elements produces change in sound, but the element is not updated.
simple examples would be a gain number box or a volume gain slider. when locking or unlocking the patch, the corresponding ui element gets updated.
i can't seem to find out what the reason for this is.
my machine is a MacBookPro3,1 2,2 ghz, running mac os x 10.6.8
i also got max 5.1.8 and max 4.6.3 installed.
anyone had the same experience?
same here
MBP 2.2 i7 osx10.6.8
i just updated to max 6.0.1 –
and bam!
happened again
(after only 2 minutes of usage).
I'm finding the same
Windows 7 ultimate 64
i7 950 3Ghz
Max 6, on Os X Lion… I've the same.
Yes, I'm getting this exact problem but I think it's due to very large, rapid spikes in CPU usage. When I start my live performance patch in Max 6, it runs at about 30% (which is where it stays in Max 5). As I introduce more audio elements, it climbs to about 48%. Then it starts spiking so quickly that the readout still says 48% but I can see the CPU bar jumping up and down really quickly. Around this time, some of the numbers boxes in my UI start to freeze up and then the audio often starts to glitch out.
…running Max 6.0.1 on OS X 10.6.8 with 3.06GHz CPU and 4BG.
…wondering if using the mixer for parallel processing or getting a RAM upgrade might help?
Hi guys,
Engineering is currently investigating these reports of CPU spiking. We'll let you know what we find.
Exact problem here. After 3-4 minutes Max6 is really unusable. With the attached patcher, I also receive a lot of crash, simply moving parameters… It seems related to poly~. Also attached a snapshot of the cpu just after launching Max. Cpu overload is visible and it happens every time I launch the software.
I wonder if this issue is quite rare, not being a major topic… In my case, after a few minutes it makes Max unusable.
iMac, Intel Core 2 Duo 3,06 GHz 4 GB
osx 10.6.8
Max6 6.0.1
same here.. MBP 2011 15" i7 2.2 quad with 10.7.2
After a few minutes patches become unusable, and the problem consistently happens when playing with the audio driver settings in max (engine on/off, buffer sizes, etc. cause the screen to freeze, even on very small patches with just a cycle~ 440 and a live.meter)
I've also got that weird refreshing issue but for now it's only in my bpatchers. I use a horizontal livegain~ which only updates when you change the level again.
BTW why is the shortcut for routing patch cords gone?! Bad move :-(
Any news from the Cycling crew about this issue? Sorry to rush you but Max6 is unusable, at least in my case.
Thank you.
Mr Matpe,
I am missing a file called ale_conv1 in your patches.
Danny, I think has already been in touch with support. We are finding it really hard to reproduce any of this. If you have a guaranteed way to make the Max UI freeze up, please email us in support with full details We need to find out what you guys all have in common.
Let us know
Uups, sorry…
Hi Andrew,
some more infos, I hope.
This bug seems related to opening different audio patches with audio on, at least in my case.
I made this very simple test:
– new patcher
– create a cycle~ object, open the help file and turn on the audio
– create another audio object, e.g. pong~, open the help and turn on the audio… immediately Max gui freezes.
If I don't open patchers involving audio, everything seems ok.
I hope this helps.
i can't reproduce it now, as the max 6 demo on both my computers has expired, and i didn't purchase it yet (because of this bug, which renders max unusable for me).
last time i checked i could easily reproduce it this way:
open a new patch
put a new gen~ object there
open help for gen~
turn audio on
switch to different subpatcher / tab in gen~ help while audio is on
turn audio off / on
that way i had the same result happening every time i tested.
can't check for details now, since i can't run max 6 now.
I have some news, at least relating to my setup…
After some test, eventually I selected audio built-in instead of my Fireface uc. I closed and reopened Max6 and the issue, with audio built-in, disappeared.
I selected again the driver of my interface and no more issue (until now).
Could you check and confirm it?
I'd been wondering if this might have anything to with external soundcards, seeing as no obvious solution was presenting itself in terms of patching, computer specs or operating systems. I'm using a MOTU Ultralite. I'd try my patch using the built-in audio, to see if that removed the spiking but my trial has expired too.
on my 2 machines i had the bug appear with built in audio, as well as external soundcard.
i definitely tried a edirol fa-66, but use a motu 828 mk1 as well, but don't remember if i tried it with max 6.
i also have to add that at some point after leaving max 6 open when the bug happened, and using the browser, the behaviour went back to normal when i returned to max 6. after that, it happened again though.
it's way too confusing to pin it down to a certain action i have the feeling.
@ vogt
I noticed the same thing, if I stopped using max for a bit, when I came back it would work as normal. I also noticed locking and unlocking my patch refreshed the screen, but that was it. It must have something to do with the cpu spikes, as mentioned above, because the same patch I have been using, after I cut down on the cpu, works without flaw. The cpu before, however was only at 50% but would spike up to 60 or 70. This doesn't happen with the same patch in max 5 so I wouldn't know where to look.
If I had unlimited time it would be easy to show the max crew what's going on with my (our) machines, but I don't have much time, especially not to make a patch with a lot of cpu usage just to show that there are random cpu spikes and that they suck. Has the Max crew not seen this phenomena yet? Maybe they know too well how to patch and avoid any sort of cpu black holes. However, it's an extremely hampering bug and kills the usability of a patch.
We still haven't reproduced this. We're happy to keep trying, but so far the reports are all over the map. Some people have it with hardly any patching, others only with huge patchers.
If you think you have a way to reproduce, and it does the same thing on other computers, please let us know about it.
I think part of the problem at this stage is that a lot of people who were having this problem can no longer access Max 6 for additional testing. My trial expired quite a while ago. But I'll provide whatever info you think might be relevant and even send my patch, if you think it'll help (though I'd rather not post it here).
If you have an expired demo, but are sure that you have a reproducible way of getting this to happen, please get in touch with support.
We cannot fix what we cannot see – and so far this problem is machine specific. Noone at c74 has ever seen this problem!
If you have some time to make a movie, or show us what your system is doing while the UI hangs, or do some screen sharing with a c74 tech, we'd be extremely appreciative – please get in touch.
It happened that I experience the same problem. The system specs are:
System Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro4,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.5 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
I'm using the internal sound card and can reproduce the problem the following way:
Open Max 6, open the patch using the dac~ or ezdac~ object, turn on ezdac~ or send startwindow message, stop audio processing by either pressing ezdac~ or sending stop message to dac~, then ezdac~ hangs and still lit, pressing it again hangs the user interface while moving the sliders and number boxes produces output no user interface changes. The same thing sending startwindow message to dac~ object again.
The problem started to appear when I installed Max 5 for use with Max for Live.
I've solved this problem using the Matteo method. Changing driver in Audio Status have solved this problem yet I'm using ad_portaudio Core Audio instead of regular built-in option which brings this problem again when you select the built-in in driver menu.
Hi, i have the same problem described here.
My configuration is 10.6.8 and Max 6.0.3. I have also Max/Msp 5.1.9, Motu Ultralite MK3 or Echo Audio Fire 4.
This is referred only to Max 6.
I have captured a video screening to show the GUI Freezing Bug.
There is no sound captured but i can ensure that is working perfectly. The only problem is the GUI. It seems to have a kind of lag in the response, but if you press the ezdac button it starts again to freeze.
The mouse also disappear when moving sliders, numbers and so on and there is no change in the interface.
This is the video as an unlisted link on youtube.
Is there anybody else having this annoying bug?
Is there anything to do with "Parallel Processing"?
Hello, each time i use max6 for audio, i can reproduce this very annoying bug. In each msp patch (no matter how big it is) when i turn off and on the ezdac~ ui object, Ui feedback doesn't work at all, or is delayed.
If i just create a new patcher, and add a cycle~ -> gain~ -> ezdac~
-> meter~
as soon as i turn off audio clicking on ezdac~, meter~ get frozen and, even if i can hear changes in sound, i can't see any changes on ui.
overdrive & audio interrupt not activated
internal sound card
MBP 2.3 GHZ quad core.
i used the demo now for 2 weeks, everything worked fine since yesterday.
at some point the ui freezes, means i scroll a numberbox, sound is changing but display stays the same. the only way to update is to unlock the patch, but as soon as i lock it again same behaviour??
no solutions yet?
Macbook Pro, i7 /2,5 ghz quad
8 gb ram (1333mhz)DDR3
max 6.0.3
maybe it`s 10.7.3 related as i updated the day before yesterday?
s a brand new machine and it happens that i was too stupid to already began with backups, so theres no way back to 10.7.2
now even the unlock trick don`t works anymore. same after restart and reboot
AND: it isnt patch related, its in every patch
HI Guys,
I'm sorry that you are experiencing trouble. These reports could be the same, or different issues. Max 6.04 will be out in a couple of days. Please try that, and if you're still in trouble then I'd like to invite you all back into support so we can get to the bottom of it individually.
If i turn the audio driver to portaudio_coreaudio it works perfectly.
solved with max 6.04 !!! thanks !
Ohhh Help! I am having the same problem… After a while of working on my patch, the screen freezes!!! Even though the video keeps on running at a decent frame rate, but I cannot do any changes on the patch.
I have a really important performance on Wednesday and I just don't know what to do….!
I have an iMac 3,4 GHz Core i7
8 gb ram (1333mhz)DDR3
I am running Max 5.1.9 because there's some compiled objects that don't work yet in Max 6. And Off-course the buggy Lion version 10.7.3
Is there's anyone there that could give me a clue on how to solve this problem?
Thanks a lot!!
Forums > MaxMSP


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Sounds like you got a decent car at least, sorry to hear about the payments. If you got the V6 Camry, watch out, that car is thirsty, my grandma had a V6 Camry and while it performed well, revs over 2000 sucked down the dino-juice like it was going out of style.
Toyota is pretty decent though, my mom had a mid-'80s Cressida, early '80s Celica Supra (as mentioned above), and my grandma had an early '90s Camry that my father inherited. They're all pretty decent.
So, what an interesting thread to uncover with this timing in my life. But first some background... That Volvo 240GL wagon was mostly ok for a few years until its electrical harness started dying and we found out that Volvo refuses to support that wiring harness anymore, the excuse being "safety" -- thanks for the 18-year-old brick, jerks. Car simply stopped running over and over until it became hopeless, we left it in Pasadena for the night and donated it to charity the next day, naturally it started right up. We then got the aforementioned Olds 88 in like-new condition and that GM car was unreliable transportation, big in the wrong ways, an underpowered, heavy front-engine car, and all the GM plasticky crap and mildew problems eventually reared their heads... oh, and the GM computer-controlled suspension constantly was blowing its fuses, leaving it swaying on every start, stop, and turn on the road like a yacht on the high seas. That was the car I got my license in back in '07, as many of you know, but I inherited a Mazda MX-6 which was a dream to drive compared to the Olds, even though it was the underpowered 4-cyl. The Mazda needed a few repairs here and there, but the worst was when the shift solenoid died and required a whole new transmission, which I got. Then tragically it got slow-speed rear-ended twice in the course of 2 years, and the salvage title took away the last of the car's repair value, it's hard to upkeep something the state makes impossible to insure despite the damage being fairly minor in reality. And the final straw was the new transmission's first gear having a fraction of its regular torque and power when cold, that became a safety concern I couldn't take to Comic-Con and the plan was to scrape together as much as possible - $3k all told - to get something used but decent.
I invested $58 in a month of unlimited license-plate Carfax reports, and that paid for itself considerably, a lot of Craigslist and other ads had garbage cars that looked fine but weren't - some were salvages and rebuilds, some had liens and other title issues, some had failed smog over and over suggesting serious problems and possibly cheats, some had failed smog and never passed again. We spent a lot of anguish searching for cars, eventually giving up on the idea of a Dodge Intrepid (there had been a lot of them at the beginning of the search, but as soon as I was serious to buy, they dried up and then my mechanic said to avoid like the plague, get a Japanese car). I had changed focus to Camrys, there was one right where I grew up in Santa Monica but they didn't call me back on the voicemail I left, and when I called back after a busy weekend they had sold it the night before.
My mom found on Craigslist a Nissan Maxima that was within price range and age range (2000 or newer for me) and mileage range (under 15k per year) that happened to be right up the street from where I live, my sister lives, where my mom lived when I was born, where my grandma lived, where I went to school, etc. So we went and test drove it, checked it out, there were a few issues they didn't seem to know about, and the wife had beat the driver's side up a little using every surface of the car as edge-feelers, but overall it looked good. We haggled them down due to a few repair questions, and I bought it the next day after they were able to provide me with a new smog test.
So the 2000 Nissan Maxima GLE (luxury edition) V6 automatic with 222hp on a FWD is what I bought. It has leather interior (I don't care, but the fabric of my last car did deteriorate too quickly), CD/cassette Bose 200w sound system (stock), power windows and seats, automatic climate control with working AC, remote system with 2 remotes and 1 key (it came with 1 remote and 3 keys originally, who knows what happened there), automatic lights, and enough rear seat space to seat my 6' 7" step-father in comfort. The amount of horsepower on a front wheel drive car like this is ridiculous, it gets 0-60 of 6.6 seconds, top end is in the 140s, produces torque steer and wheelspin on power takeoffs. It looks pretty boring but it's a rocket with more speed than I can use with its very light steering feel and sedan vehicle height (that height creates a little body roll even with the suspension designed to handle this car). Its engine was named one of the top engines for its year sold in the US.
The negatives are that it's the Thirstymobile even on its best day, the sedan styling isn't aerodynamic enough, and then it turns out the very expensive oxygen sensor(s) are bad on it and the smog guy cleared that code to hide it so it's losing even more mileage. The remotes are a little fussy. The rear trunk light won't come on, and the sellers had car fluid bottles leak into the carpet and spare tire cover so the trunk required a lot of work. The aforementioned dents, including one at the TOP of the fender that broke the paint and now I'm not sure what to do - how do you gouge the TOP of a fender?!? I assume she backed into a hanging storage box or something along those lines.
I took it to my mechanic after getting it and he immediately sent me to get 2 new tires, they had mismatched tires on the car and 2 were bald. I knew this was going to happen, it came out of the haggling money we saved, and I bought 2 tires but got bad news on one of the good tires I saved, they had driven on it flat and cracked the sidewall, it was now a thing to look out for. I took the car back to the mechanic and left it overnight for a lookover. When I got it back the next day, he explained the oxy sensor issue which I can wait on until I need to get it smogged, and said it didn't need struts right away and the alignment wasn't bad, everything else looked good, so he wasn't charging me. I took those savings and put them into the other 2 tires, it was a matched set I had broken up and then put back together. :p
The blue book on the car is $1500 over what I put into it. And it is fun to drive despite looking boring, it fits more stuff and people more comfortably, it's decent. Right now, its name is "The Thirstymobile" though, nickname is "Rocket" because its light pedals on taking it home gave me a green light-takeoff tire screech BY ACCIDENT!
What I looked into wasn't just the expense of repairs (over $1500, often) but the fact that they tended to be temporary fixes for those people. That's never good.
But I'd prefer the peace of mind of a vehicle that odds are, will run properly. It has good MPG, too.
Yeah, when you buy GM, they're not so much repairs as they are band-aids, think of them as extended car payments. :p
Did you get the 4 cylinder Camry for that good mileage? I'm assuming you didn't get the hybrid or you would have mentioned it. And the V6 has middling mileage, not better than my old '93 Mazda, only 3mpg better than my Maxima and it's got more horsepower.
As far as I know, it's the 4-cylinder. I'd have considered the hybrid, but it wasn't available for the rebates I got. Now, with less gas taxes being paid, some states want to make it even more expensive to buy "green" vehicles.
Some of those "green" vehicles are worse for the environment. Not only are the materials used to make their batteries very bad for the environment, but most of the electricity currently used in many areas is coal... including here in SoCal. So it's not all sunshine and smiles with hybrid cars, there's a hidden impact.
All I test drove were 4 cylinders. I told him I didn't want a 6, nor a red or black color.
Well, here are my copilots (along with God... and my guardian angel... and Chuck Yeager... and Large Marge... and Roger Murdock [NOT Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who only tries in the playoffs]... :D ) of said new car. What's that flashing? :wristslap:


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Fundamental Analysis Fallacy 30 replies
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DislikedTry Love, love for God.
Dislikedwow simpleman. nice.Ignored
DislikedSince we are playing regional music, I like this one. It has soul.
Dislikedvery good music and video is impressive, probably inspired from Serb war.
DislikedI think that's our problem. We are considered the East by the West and the West by the East.
But then, that has made us stronger.Ignored
DislikedI think that's our problem. We are considered the East by the West and the West by the East.
But then, that has made us stronger.Ignored
DislikedVic. Thanks for the read on the chinese easing of CB reserve depos.
Japan's easing has impact on usd/yen.
I still cannot trade the RMB.
So as far as I am concerned, has no market impact.
Some peeps like speculate what the impact on USD or euro.
But i feel they just want excuse to manipulate anything that they want.
There is really no real impact. Just secondary speculation and secondary spillover effects.
Until The RMB is liquidly and freely traded, its on a managed pegged.
Speculating on what the chniese CB wants to do is like speculating...Ignored
Dislikedyou are fine chief... i feel your health is getting better...
I agree...
we can only dance...
Dislikedmostly very cranky.
Peeps around me all trying be their most positive self.
I somehow see thru all the charade.
I tell them here pain there pains.
They say , ahhh, pain is good, means healing.
I just feel like club them with baseball bat and see if they feel the healing.
DislikedHi fti, do not beat your self up about getting a bit cranky at times, when I was first recovering (well after a couple of years) the doctors sent me to a pain clinic to try to manage my problems better, while there, they explained to me that the parts of the brain that deal with pain and emotion/stress are next to each other, when one is aggravated it aggravates the other, understanding this actually helped me deal with the long term pain management much better, I also could/can recognise when my emotions were/are starting to go all over the place...Ignored
DislikedOh the vouch, I like do it on my birthday, but this year i missed it.
So make me proud, huh? and yourself forever financially independent.
and not forget exercise.
cranky and naggy too.
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7 amazing African journeys
Africa is a continent of wild open savannahs, terracotta sunsets, thousands of vibrant green hills and rugged coastlines. Here, you can be chugging along on …06 Jul 2016 • Harriet Constable insert_drive_file Article
Adjacent to Sun City and home to a huge variety of animals, the PILANESBERG GAME RESERVE is North West Province's biggest tourist draw. The artificially created reserve was, until 1979, occupied by farmers and the Tswana people, who were unceremoniously evicted when Operation Genesis saw over six thousand animals shipped in from all over the country to fill the park. Just two to three hours' drive from Pretoria and Jo'burg, Pilanesberg is definitely the place to come to see some game if you're based in Gauteng and have only limited time in South Africa. Like any other game parks, you'll get the most from your visit if you stay in or near the reserve so that you're in the best position to head out at prime game-viewing time: at dawn, before the day visitors arrive.
Don't let the crowds or the managed nature of the place put you off: the park offers game-viewing thrills aplenty, with a good chance of seeing all of the Big Five, along with hippo, brown hyena, giraffe and zebra. The majority of antelope species are here, too, and there's a vast array of birdlife – over 365 species recorded so far. At night, some fantastic creatures emerge, including civet, porcupine and caracal, though you'll be lucky to spot them.
Covering some 650 square kilometres, and with 200km of good-quality tar and gravel roads, you'll need at least a day to do Pilanesberg justice. The reserve is easily explored by car, especially with the official map (for sale at the gates and camp shops). The park's many beautiful hills – the result of an unusual volcanic eruption that occurred 1200–1300 years ago – are in some ways Pilanesberg's finest feature, though they are often ignored by visitors more interested in scouring their slopes for wildlife. Pilanesberg's natural focus, for visitors and wildlife alike, is the alkaline Lake Mankwe ("place of the leopard"), whose goings-on are best observed from several walk-in hides. The various picnic spots and hides dotted around are ideal for breaking the drive – the hides in particular aren't used by many visitors and as a result can be cool, peaceful places to appreciate the natural surroundings. If you're self-driving, don't hesitate to ask the safari jeep drivers for sighting tips; all of them are in radio contact with each other and know exactly what's going on.
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Africa is a continent of wild open savannahs, terracotta sunsets, thousands of vibrant green hills and rugged coastlines. Here, you can be chugging along on …06 Jul 2016 • Harriet Constable insert_drive_file Article
The Northern Cape, home to diamond mining capital Kimberley and wilderness of the Kalahari Desert, remains South Africa's least visited province. But it just …06 Jan 2016 • Meera Dattani insert_drive_file Article
Many visitors to Cape Town leave with a fairly limited view of the Mother City. They see the whitewashed beachfront restaurants and hotels, take the cable car u…24 Dec 2015 • Chris Clark insert_drive_file Article


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Community Policing Nugget
How Planning and Research Units Can Do More to Promote Innovation and Advance Community Policing
According to recent Law Enforcement Management and Administrative Statistics (LEMAS) data, a majority of local agencies have either a Planning and Research unit or personnel assigned the responsibility. Planning and Research functions support innovation and contribute to advancing community policing through varied and complex activities. Their roles can include developing and maintaining agency policies and procedures, managing the accreditation process, writing grants, serving as a resource for officers on special projects, and even conducting crime analysis and mapping activities. They can also support strategic planning; agency performance benchmarking and measurement; and evaluations of tactics, strategies, and programs. Nevertheless, their value is not often maximized. This month's Nugget discusses four ways in which Planning and Research can play a more active and systematic role in promoting innovation and supporting community policing goals.
Support for Performance Measurement and Strategic Planning.
Outcome-based performance management is central to many local governments and can have a strong influence on department budgets. Individuals who have the skills to conduct systems analysis and collect and interpret data for policy purposes are critical to successful performance-based management. Their skills can be applied not only in developing strategic plans but in tracking progress toward goals and objectives, thereby rendering these strategic plans more functional and influential in day-to-day agency activities. Planning and Research professionals are also well-suited to engage in more advanced activities such as business process mapping to identify gaps in desired service levels and seek out process improvements in support of longer-term organizational change.
Promote Innovation and Develop Best Practices.
Planning and Research professionals can support innovation by assisting with the development of new policing strategies and the identification and implementation of best practices. Their involvement in developing and supporting pilot programs and, through their network of colleagues, extending the reach of innovative ideas and practices nationally can play an important role in further developing the body of knowledge about what works. There is great value in replicating proven effective or promising programs in other jurisdictions and in documenting the effectiveness of model projects for a wider audience. Planning and Research units can lead the development of such research designs, consider and assess the impact of projects, document displacement of the problem and diffusion of benefits to surrounding areas, and assess the costs and benefits.
Conduct Work Load, Call Load, and Patrol Area Analyses, and Population Impact Assessments.
These activities have a strong relationship to successful community policing. Planning and Research units often conduct workload and call analyses to monitor service volume and to limit imbalances. This is critical to not only ensure sufficient police presence and visibility within beats and neighborhoods, but to ensure that officers in patrol areas have sufficient time for proactive community collaboration and problem solving. To resource community policing priorities effectively, changes in population and the resulting effects on services must be monitored and can result in the occasional need for redistricting patrol areas.
Coordinate Community Surveying Efforts.
Obtaining a better understanding of community needs, problems, and priorities is a central tenet of community policing, and collecting and analyzing data and information through methodologically sound means is essential to delivering quality services. Planning and Research personnel often have expertise in the research methods that are necessary to administer and conduct, for example, citizen satisfaction, business, and victim and offender surveys, analyze the data, and report on the results.
Planning and Research personnel, both civilian and sworn, often possess significant technical skills and capabilities and advanced degrees and training. Many factors influence the success of the units in which they serve. They include turnover rates of unit personnel, the existence of limited and finite resources for both this function and for policing overall, competing demands and priorities, staff development difficulties, and turnover in the agency's chief executive position. High-profile incidents or a change in crime statistics can demand a shift in an agency's focus and, consequently, a change in the Planning and Research role. Yet these law enforcement professionals and the units in which they serve hold much potential for contributing to the development and testing of policing innovation, and can play a critical role in shaping the nature of 21st century law enforcement toward community policing.


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About Us
The Emeritus and Retired Faculty Association serves San Jose State University retired faculty. The organization promotes continued connections with campus and colleagues through social events and special projects. The Executive Board Meets monthly during the academic year to discuss issues of interest to members and plan social events.
Clicking the links below will give you:
General information on purposes of ERFA and benefits of membership
Current members of the Executive Board
Brief history of the organization
2012 SJSU ERFA Constitution (pdf)
2011 SJSU ERFA Constitution (pdf)
2010 SJSU ERFA Constitution (pdf)
2008 SJSU EFA Constitution (pdf)


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UPDATED: Around the League - April 8, 2010
Jason Gregor
April 08 2010 03:26PM
The debate over who is better, Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin, will reach new heights now that the NHL Central Scouting final rankings had Seguin first and Hall second. For the past few months many posters, fans, bloggers and members of the media have said Hall was the best, however, I've been a believer that the Oilers, or whoever picks first should take Seguin. I'm not sold he is a better player, but he plays the more influential position; centre.
For the past few months I've spoken with a variety of scouts who have seen both play 30+ times, and out of the 27 scouts I asked 13 liked Hall while 14 preferred Seguin. But everyone one of them had them ranked first or second. Not much separates these two, and that is why I've said Seguin should be the pick.
Centres have historically been better and normally they influence the game more. Of the current top 50 scorers of all time, five are defencemen, 15 wingers and 30 are centres. Eight of the top-ten scorers of all-time played the middle. If Hall was a clear number one, like Patrick Kane in 2007, then of course he should go first, but he isn't and that's why taking Seguin first overall makes more sense.
The Canucks have never won a Stanley Cup, and up until Henrik Sedin, Trevor Linden was the best centre they've ever had. The Flames traded their last great centre, Joe Nieuwendyk, to Dallas in exchange for Jarome Iginla. Iginla has been good for the Flames, but only once in 13 years did his team win a playoff round. And all we ever hear is how he needs a centreman.
One centreman won't change everything for your team, but it is clear a franchise has a better chance with an elite centre than an elite winger. Of course you need a goalie and solid defence, but a centreman normally has more of an influence on a winger's game than the winger has on the guy taking the draws.
Conn Smyth Trophy winners
C. Lemieux
B. Smith
Fifteen centremen, 14 goalies, nine D-men, four right wingers, and two left wingers make up the list.
Look at the Stanley Cup champions and strength down the middle seems more important than strength on the wings. No team in recent memory had more dominant strength on the wings than down the middle. Goalies and centremen are the most dominant positions, but drafting a goalie in the first round is very rare.
Since 1969, 947 players have been drafted in the first round. Only 54 of them have been goalies, which is a measly 5.7%. Active goalies taken in the first round include Martin Brodeur (22nd), Roberto Luongo (4th), Marc-Andre Fleury (1st), Cam Ward (25th), Kari Lehtonen (2nd), Pascal Leclaire (8th), Rick Dipietro (1st), Devan Dubnyk (14th), Carey Price (5th), Simeon Varlamov (23rd) and Tukka Rask (21st). The first four are stars, but the rest are still developing and some are already in their second organization.
Only six goalies chosen in the first round have won the Stanley Cup: Tom Barrasso, Grant Fuhr, Martin Brodeur, Cam Ward, Marc-Andre Fleury and Michel Larocque. Goalies have become the most important position in hockey, but their development takes longer, thus many top flight goalies are taken later on.
It seems that Stanley Cup winners are blessed with either dominant guys down the middle or great defence. Rarely are teams led to the Cup by a dominating winger looking at the recent champions.
- Crosby/Malkin/Staal in Pittsburgh
- Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Draper in Detroit.
- The Ducks won with great goaltending and two hall of fame blueliners.
- Staal/Brind'Amour/Weight in Carolina.
- Lecavalier and Richards in Tampa.
- The Devils won with Stevens and Brodeur with three shutouts in the finals.
- Yzerman/Federov/Lidstrom led the Wings.
- Sakic/Forsberg/Roy was the backbone of the Avs.
- Modano/Nieuwendyk/Belfour/Zubov led the Stars.
The last winger you could argue that led his team to victory from was Claude Lemieux, and he won't make the Hall of Fame. He was great in the playoffs, but he was known more for scoring clutch goals than dominating a series.
I'm not saying it is a lock that Seguin will be more of an impact player in the NHL than Hall, but considering they are ranked so close I would go with the centre, based on past history and the fact Seguin's 2nd year in junior was better than Hall's second season in Windsor.
The Phoenix Coyotes clinched home ice in the first round yesterday so say hello to Kristen. She is a veteran member of The Pack Entertainment Squad. This blonde haired, blue eyed beauty is a broadcast Journalism Student at Arizona State University, her favorite food is Mac & Cheese, her favorite book is Pride and Prejudice, she loves watching movies and she never shies away from a night of karaoke. Sounds like a perfect date; cook her some KD, hit a karaoke bar and then rent a movie. Giddy Up!
- Would you trade Jarome Iginla for the 2nd pick if you were Darryl Sutter? Or does loyalty to a player mean something to you.
- Will Darryl Sutter remain as GM, will Brent remain as coach? The off-season in Alberta will be fun to watch, but both teams will be revamping complete opposite areas of their team.
- Right now, who do you think will be a better team next year, the Flames or the Oilers?
- The schedule maker got it right. The Rangers and Flyers finish the season with a home and home series. Those games are essentially playoff games.
- I think Mike Gillis' patience will cost his a team a lengthy playoff run. With Aaron Rome, Shane O'Brien or Andrew Alberts as a third pairing they are in trouble. And all three might have to play because Sami "injury-waiting-to-happen" Salo is always a play away from the pressbox.
- Ted Leonsis is one of the few owners in sports who talks to the fans. His blog his pretty insightful and entertaining. www.tedstake.com Of course he is pro-Capitals, but Capital fans love interacting with him. He responds to their complaints and that's what the fans want. The Oilers should pay attention.
- I have no idea what the criteria is for the Messier award, but it's supposed to go to "the player who exemplifies great leadership qualities to his team, on and off the ice during the regular season." The five finalists are Nicklas Lidstrom, Jamie Langenbrunner, Alex Ovechkin, Ryan Miller and Mike Richards. I'm a huge Messier fan, but this award is hard to handout, because unless you are in the room no one really knows how good of a leader a player is. Richards has been getting ripped all year for being a bad leader, yet he makes the final five. I don't get it.
Here are the top ten in pts, goals, assists and other stats.
48: Alex Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby
47: Steven Stamkos
43: Patrick Marleau
41: Marian Gaborik
40: Ilya Kovalchuk
39: Dany Heatley and Alex Semin
37: Zach Parise
35: Alexandre Burrows
78: Henrik Sedin
68: Joe Thornton
67: Brad Richards and Nicklas Backstrom
63: Martin St. Louis
58: Ovechkin and Paul Stastny
56: Patrick Kane
55: Mike Green
54: Daniel Sedin and Duncan Keith
107: H. Sedin
106: Ovechkin
100: Crosby
98: Backstrom
91: Brad Richards
90: Martin St. Louis
89: Stamkos
87: Thornton
86: Kane
84: Gaborik
+44: Jeff Schultz
+43: Ovechkin
+35: Mike Green
+34: Backstrom, Daniel Sedin and H. Sedin
+33: Christian Ehrhoff
+31: Alex Burrows and Alex Semin
+26: Tom Poti
***Patrick O'Sullivan has a big lead for the green jacket sitting at -37. Shawn Horcoff has dropped to -28, with Rod Brind'Amour is -26 while former Oiler Steve Staios sits near the bottom -27.***
PP Goals:
21: Stamkos
18: Heatley
14: Anze Kopitar and Gaborik
13: Mike Richards, Crosby, Ovechkin, B.Richards, Tomas Holmstrom and Teemu Selanne
308: Cal Clutterbuck
283: Ryan Callahan
274: Dustin Brown
262: Stephane Robidas
255: David Backes
247: Steve Ott
245: Brooks Orpik
239: Chris Neil
230: Matt Greene
228: Douglas Murray
360: Ovechkin
333: Parise
310: Jeff Carter
301: Henrik Zetterberg
297: Phil Kessel
286: Vincent Lecavalier
285: Crosby
275: Patric Hornqvist and Heatley
272: B. Richards and Kovalchuk
If you think things are at an all time low in Edmonton, in 30th place and missing the playoffs for the fourth season in a row, you might want to read this article by Kent Wilson of FlamesNation. In addition to being an absolutely scathing review of the Sutter Era in Calgary it is probably the best article written on the Flames that I have read anywhere.
Tough times in Alberta for hockey fans.
April 09 2010, 07:28AM
Gregor or anyone with an opinion, if we pick Seguin does he get sent back to JR.? He will only be 18 at the start of the season and if we are in a full rebuild do they give him some time to develop, Stauffer was asked this and said NO he will stay with the big club, I don't know if you keep him he has to stay (no ahl for him).
The Oilers would have the option of playing Hall/Seguin in the NHL next year or returning them to junior. They could not send them to the A.H.L. next year, it is not an option.
The truth is I believe it is going to be a close call on Tyler Seguin IF we draft him. He is clearly a highly skilled player...but he also has the build of a light-weight aluminum rake at this point, rather than a full-blown old-timey wooden one. I hope he puts on some good weight over the summer. It would be great if he was ready to come in and play in the N.H.L. months from now. But it's not that easy. I know fully that almost all Oilers fans would want to see him play with the big club next year, and so would I IF that was the best thing for his development going forward.
A couple concerns I have with his ability to play in the N.H.L. full-time next year would be:
- He couldn't crack the World Junior line-up last year, so if he wasn't ready for that yet as pretty well all the experts agreed last year what makes us think he can play at a dominant level in the NHL next year?
- He is nowhere near the physical maturity of Taylor Hall. In the best league in the world playing against men he is going to need to be fill out his lanky frame for his own safety, and also to be able to dominate. He wasn't yet ready to dominate in his second playoff series.
- This one is for Jason Gregor: Matt Duchesne is a rare case, and is the EXCEPTION to the rule, and not the norm for first-round talents.
So, we will have to see about Tyler Seguin IF he is picked by the Oilers, as to whether or not he is returned to juniors. One thing is sure though, it is NOT a slam-dunk either way, in my opinion.
I could see it being a real tough decision, like when the Senators decided to keep Spezza down in the minors. You can see now that it was the right move. As well, look at how keeping Boyd Devereaux and Joe Thornton seemed to hinder their development (yes, I purposely picked two players with vastly different skills and careers, but with the same look back at not sending them back down.)
We will have to see what he looks like in camp, how ready he is physically, to be able to really give a valid opinion. But if you want a guess right now, today I say he gets sent down for one more year, if the Oilers pick him.
Taylor Hall plays next year in the N.H.L. - he is ready.
Who in their right mind would give up the 2nd overall pick for Iginla?
Toronto !!
April 09 2010, 07:51AM
Great argument here, Jason!
I really didn't buy the whole pick a center thing but you make some really strong points...and you have me thinking about that now. The only thing is think about the Canadiens with Rocket Richard, as I can see Taylor Hall in that same kind of role. As well, I believe the Oilers have taken so many centers in the drafts in the past (looking for that franchise center) we now have so a lot of them playing the wing. I think it would be better to play wingers there in a perfect world so I do believe there is some merit to that thought, too.
That said I can see what you mean about franchise centers and winning the Stanley Cup now. I never realized the impact that had truly before now. (one question though, I thought Zetterberg was a winger)
Personally, I'd bet (52% chance) that we don't even get to pick which one we take, but just for fun let's say we would. I take Hall. It's not that I'm sold on the fact that he will definitely be the better player going forward; it's because I'm sure he is going to be a franchise player. It just seems like Seguin has a LOT of improvements to make before he becomes as good as Taylor Hall is now. People can talk about the fact that this was only Seguin's 2nd junior season but he still is only 10 weeks younger than Hall. Taylor hall made the WJC team in his second year if I'm not mistaken, played junior earlier (obviously) and dominated earlier.
I'm not saying Taylor Hall is going to be the better pro, and that is a valid point. My point is that there have been a lot of 'potentials' in the Oilers' recent history that never turned out that way at all. Being that Tyler Seguin has a long way to go to catch up to the player that Hall is now, as evidenced by the WJC and their playoff series, I want to go with the sure thing!
Who will fair better next season goes to Sutter over Tambellini - self explanatory . Do we send Hall or Sequin back to junior to develop -probably not . Kane and Toews are prime examples of players that have still not filled out their bodies , and i don't see a problem with them among other youngsters in the league . Hall has winning attitude and can star at any highest level, while Sequin has yet to have that sort of success playing in elite company and being shadowed like Hall has had most of the time and overcome at the highest levels . Advantage Hall - for Sequin has not shown that he can handle that sort of leadership and scrutiny yet . We need only look at our present youngsters and see they have yet to fill out just yet . Tams tells Moreau they want to get younger , yet he adds Khabby , Comrie and romances Jagr throughout season . What Tambellini says and what he does are all too frequently polar opposits . How does Tambellini expect to get younger but keep the younger down on he farm to develop ? What would be left but promoting older AHL'ers masquerading as NHL'ers for our main club . I suppose that wouldn't be so bad if our AHL club was not a last place club as well . Ah, whom are we kidding , isn't that what we got basically now ?
There is nothing to suggest Calgary will not be worse next year than this while there is no chance Edmonton can be worse. At least Edmonton has AHLer's who can be brought up, Calgary has not even that. If you think Edmonton fans overvalue their players, Calgary is even worse. Iggy is worth a 2nd round next year at best, and everyonee else way over paid. Edmonton at least has the excuse of injuries, Calgary only has old and slow.
The article says that Seguin had the better Season this year over Hall. I would argue that Hall and his team are going to round 3 in the OHL playoffs and Seguin is done. Hall was clutch and Seguin I did not even notice in the games. Hall has 3 solid seasons in the OHL. Seguin has 1. PLEASE DO NOT SELECT SEGUIN!
There is nothing to suggest Calgary will not be worse next year than this while there is no chance Edmonton can be worse. At least Edmonton has AHLer's who can be brought up, Calgary has not even that. If you think Edmonton fans overvalue their players, Calgary is even worse. Iggy is worth a 2nd round next year at best, and everyonee else way over paid. Edmonton at least has the excuse of injuries, Calgary only has old and slow.
Reflexion and Iginla's worth . Not very long ago i believe the Oilers were in your position in 9th place and just missing the playoffs with little in AHL to compensate . Do you really want to follow the Oiler template to where we are at three years later - i doubt it ! Example : We gave up first and second round pick and more just to sign RFA Penner to play here . Now Penner is still no Iginla . We then try to add Vanek at a price that would have cost us i believe three subsequent first rounders plus . Considering that , we probably would still be deadlast and not have a first rounder for this season or the last two i believe . We dodged one bullet thank goodness . Iginla by the way is better than Vanek obviously as well . You way under value Iginla worth on the open marketplace .Iginla's not the Flames problem , and his contract is not that bad considering his stature and worth as a player. Flames are only a man or two away from being a contender of note for next season, so avoid desperation and the errors and template the Oilers failed miserably at - or you just might end up in our place three years down the road with even more overpaid players and no UFA's wanting to play for you as well !
Reflexion and Iginla's worth . Not very long ago i believe the Oilers were in your position in 9th place and just missing the playoffs with little in AHL to compensate . Do you really want to follow the Oiler template to where we are at three years later - i doubt it ! Example : We gave up first and second round pick and more just to sign RFA Penner to play here . Now Penner is still no Iginla . We then try to add Vanek at a price that would have cost us i believe three subsequent first rounders plus . Considering that , we probably would still be deadlast and not have a first rounder for this season or the last two i believe . We dodged one bullet thank goodness . Iginla by the way is better than Vanek obviously as well . You way under value Iginla worth on the open marketplace .Iginla's not the Flames problem , and his contract is not that bad considering his stature and worth as a player. Flames are only a man or two away from being a contender of note for next season, so avoid desperation and the errors and template the Oilers failed miserably at - or you just might end up in our place three years down the road with even more overpaid players and no UFA's wanting to play for you as well !
Madjam, we first offered that outrageous contract to Vanek. Buffalo matched, so we set our sights on Penner. At no point were we going after both.
April 09 2010, 11:59AM
@Jason Gregor
If the Oil select Seguin, who do you think he plays between next season?
ONe factor you didn't take into account is the "winner" factor. Hall has won more, in Juniors and at the international level, and a winners mentality goes a long way.
Growing up in Kamloops back in the day, there was a lot of Junior success that has translated into NHL success that has gone well beyond the skill level of the players. It hasn't always meant championships, but it allows players to be better than their actual ability. We all know of highly skilled players that are just plain losers...and conversely we can site examples of unskilled players that just know how to win. I think a lot of this is attributed to attitudes and mindsets that are developed in their junior years.
Quick sidebar, I think it was the '04 draft that the Caps chose a big winger and the Pens got stuck with consolation centreman...
Hopefully this draft is similar, in which case you can't really lose, but one would be better than the other.
April 09 2010, 12:37PM
Wow, it sure is nice to see some Flames fans in a panic over on Flamesnation.
What goes around comes around Flamers. After being the brunt of jokes by Flames fans the entire year about our abysmal year, seeing the Flames choke is a small victory in an otherwise season to forget.
It felt kind of weird being on that evil website. I need to take a shower and wash the stink of Calgary off of me.
April 09 2010, 12:57PM
You know the funny thing is I can remember leading up to that draft they were talking about the difference between Ovechkin and Malkin being not as great as people beieved. Some people even said that Malkin was supposed to be the better pro after they both fully matured. Interesting... but you're right, Jason, you can't compare Hall and Seguin to those guys. They are their own animals, to be sure, but it is interesting to see the difference between the center/winger debate for the draft.
Fair enough.
I defintely wasn't comparing the players in the '04 draft as much as the situation - winger vs. centreman. I get your arguement that all things being equal, take the center. I think the reason so many are focused on Hall is because of all the additional exposure that he's had over Seguin...we've had a chance to see him play, and we liked what we saw. But you're right, there are professional scouts out there who's opinions matter waaaay more than any of ours.
It's just a bit scary to put all this hope into a guy that we've never seen before - and just goose egged in the most important playoff series of his career so far...
As for the Blazers, all I'm saying is that a lot of those players became better professionals than they should have been based on their talent. For example, Darcy Tucker should not have been as effective as has been in the past based on him being 5 foot nothing and a hundred and nothing pounds...but his experience winning 3 memorial cups may have contributed to his development as a player...maybe.
Your argument that Hall is ready and Seguin isn't is only based on points and size. Hall's game away from the puck is not close to NHL-ready.
Seguin is ahead in how he thinks the game, and that might be the most aspect of any players game.
And the Oilers haven't drafted a franchise centre. Gagner was never looked as a franchise guy, but they thought he'd be a solid NHler and I think he will be.
They've never had a top-two pick, so you can't compare any previous picks to these two.
And of course there are great wingers over time, Richard, Howe, Bossy, Jagr etc, but on average a centreman can do more for you. And right now there isn't a big difference between Hall and Seguin, regardless of how the playoff series went. Windsor is a way better team, it isn't close.
It will be a good argument that will rage on for years I'd suspect. A lot will depend on where they go. I think if Hall goes to Boston and gets to play with Savard right away, he will put up some great numbers. If he goes to Tampa same thing if he plays with Stamkos or Vinny. If he comes here, he doesn't have a dominant centre to play with right away and that will impact his point totals.
It's just curiosity that makes me ask where the notion that Hall's game away from the puck isn't NHL ready any less so than Seguin's? I'm actually starting to think that this notion isn't really all that true but I only have physical evidence to go by.
Hall was picked as one of the top 3 players on the world jr team by the coach. Wouldn't that include being a complete player or was it just because of his offense? For all the talk that Seguin is such a complete two way player he seems to struggle when the going gets tough. I realize that Plymouth is not as good of a team as Windsor but Seguin was one of the worst players defensively on his own team in the head to head series with Windsor and it wasn't at the expense of extra offense because he contributed none.
Hall's +/- stats on the OHL season are also infinitely better than Seguin's. Taylor Hall has shone when the pressure of the games increases over and over. Seguin has yet to show any of that at the junior level.
Just a hunch but I have this feeling that if the Oilers wanted Hall to be a center that he wouldn't have much trouble transitioning into that role given he has played center all his life up until junior. I realize that it doesn't happen all that often that a winger transitions to center but given Hall has been a center so much of his hockey life wouldn't it make it a distinct possibility?
What has you saying that Seguin is ahead of Hall in how he thinks the game? Is this from central scouting? From what I hear only from what I've seen around here is that most of these same scouts that have rated Seguin as #1 are also saying that Hall is more NHL ready right now than Seguin and that they are only rating Seguin 1st because they think he will be better 3 or 4 yrs from now. IMO that's why people here are thinking that Hall is more ready. I'm just guessing there.
Again it's all curiosity but it seems all of these same scouts who rate Seguin #1 because they think he will be better 3 yrs from now are also the same scouts who move young players on their ranking lists sometimes drastically from October to April and yet we're supposed to buy that they can forecast that Seguin will be better player 4 yrs from now.
I'm just asking all these questions because I'm having a hard time buying how it is that Seguin gets rated ahead of Hall given all that has happened over the last 3 yrs with the two players. Doesn't consistency have to factor in to these decisions and actual accomplishments? I don't know I just find it weird.
As a loooooong time Oiler fan it sure would be nice to grab that consistently dominant offensive power forward stud and have him learn defense rather than to pick up a player who has had one good offensive junior season and who is only arguably better in his own end and away from the puck.
You mentioned that if Hall came to Edmonton he wouldn't have Savard to play with impacting his point totals...but is it possible that Hall could play center and maybe center a line with Hemsky and Penner or Hemsky and Eberle or Hemsky and anyone and not have his point totals hurt all that much? Or could he even play LW on a line with Hemsky and maybe Gagner and not have his point totals hurt all that much? If I remember all the talk last year is how we needed to find a stud LW and now it seems forgotten.
I know, I have lots of questions and that my post is long, sorry about that but I agree with Mike Modano's Dog in this thread..it feels like Hall is more of a sure thing to me....just my thoughts.
April 09 2010, 01:38PM
Fair enough.
I defintely wasn't comparing the players in the '04 draft as much as the situation - winger vs. centreman. I get your arguement that all things being equal, take the center. I think the reason so many are focused on Hall is because of all the additional exposure that he's had over Seguin...we've had a chance to see him play, and we liked what we saw. But you're right, there are professional scouts out there who's opinions matter waaaay more than any of ours.
It's just a bit scary to put all this hope into a guy that we've never seen before - and just goose egged in the most important playoff series of his career so far...
As for the Blazers, all I'm saying is that a lot of those players became better professionals than they should have been based on their talent. For example, Darcy Tucker should not have been as effective as has been in the past based on him being 5 foot nothing and a hundred and nothing pounds...but his experience winning 3 memorial cups may have contributed to his development as a player...maybe.
"As for the Blazers, all I'm saying is that a lot of those players became better professionals than they should have been based on their talent."
Stuff like that sounds good, but really we have no idea if it's true or not.
Madjam, we first offered that outrageous contract to Vanek. Buffalo matched, so we set our sights on Penner. At no point were we going after both.
Your right , i stand corrected . Was using as an example and should have put Vanek first . I realized it after the posting .
Your right , i stand corrected . Was using as an example and should have put Vanek first . I realized it after the posting .
No worries, just wanted to point it out.
Just what is this so called time line for the Oilers to bring up from the minors or juniors, anyways ? Seems to me everyone they bring up is not ready be an NHL'er - whether it be 1,2 3 years in minors or more (tongue in cheek). Svensson's put on 15 impressive pounds to a nice size to begin with , and we have not even seen him on our turf as yet . Linus was apparantly thought to be NHL ready 2-3 years ago by many a scout , and finally we get to at least see him on Canadian soil . Face it , there is no real time line - it's more dependent on teams needs at the time .How much is this time line more dependent on the mentality of the organization they are drafted into than whether the player is really ready or not ? Who knows next season if Oilers will promote any youngsters to main squad , or they may continue to stay worse than this season and promote more AHL'ers to NHL status in order to load up on another season of top draft picks ?
April 09 2010, 06:09PM
If the Oilers take Hall I would think that there would be a plan to move up in the draft and look at a center like Nino Niederitter(Portland Winter Hawks WHL). I could see the Oilers offering Cogliano and a 2cd round pick to a team to move up in the draft. Cogliano is done. He could use a change a scenery where he can play top 6 minutes. He has shown he can produce when given those minutes. Would Boston, the Rangers ( I don't think they will make the playoffs)or Columbus consider it. I gotta believe that they would. Columbus may want Chorney or Gilbert though. I think that the Oilers are leaning to Hall because of his NHL readiness. His size at 6'1, 204lbs. He goes to the dirty places to score. Skates like Glenn Anderson and has Messier like passion for the game. Plus Don cherry say he is the best. Hehe.
April 09 2010, 08:22PM
@michael clarke
Cogliano is 22. He's far from done.
What's your criteria for leading a team to victory? Because your list looks very, very selective.
That year, Zetterberg and Datsyuk played on the same line for the vast majority of the year. One of them must have been on the wing.
And the Ducks also won with a 94 point Teemu Selanne.
Tampa, St. Louis was hands down their best player in the regular season. Richards stepped up in the playoffs, but St. Louis still dominated there too.
Devils...Elias led the team in the regular season, and Langenbrunner in the playoffs.
Wings...how can you not mention Shanahan or Hull?
So overall, you failed to include Brendan Shanahan as part of the Detroit offensive core, the Devils` regular season and playoff offensive leaders, the NHL`s Art Ross and Hart Memorial Champion, and the Ducks` franchise forward as guys who lead their teams to a Cup.
Come on.
I agree given that the two players are so close in terms of their overall talent level, albeit their skills & strengths lay in different areas, the Oilers should pick Seguin. It's not to say that they don't need goal scoring but Seguin is someone who can cover more of the Oilers needs as this team has a lot of holes to cover. Seguin can play PK, PP, and even strength as he is the better two way forward, he can also win faceoffs, which is a dire need for this club. More importantly he has the potential to be a no.1 center.
As much as I like Gagner's IQ and talent I'm not sure he meets the requirements of a no.1 center as his faceoff ability is not great, he isn't a strong defensive forward, and he lacks the dominating quality that a true no.1 center has ie.(Getzlaf, Richards, Crosby, etc). Gagner is much better slotted as a 2nd Center as he has good offensive instincts and good hands but at this point is still fairly one dimensional, although he still has a lot of years to develop.
Hall is a power winger who drives into the zone with his speed and crashes the net. He is the most NHL ready but will only fill one need for the Oilers, goal scoring. The Oilers have much more pressing matters than goal scoring. Also as we have seen with great playmaking centers they can make players around them better and increase their teams goal scoring. Also I don't really buy the argument of Eberle and Hall having great chemistry. If you watched the WJC they weren't on the same line at all. They were on the first unit PP for Canada and let's face it with their offensive acumen they could have been just as lethal as PP linemates if the rest of the line was made up of chimps in skates. Besides if we are hoping to give Eberle a shot at being an NHL scorer the Oilers needs an offensive centerman on their club besides Gagner as he has never broken the 50pt barrier. Looking forward the Oilers cupboard is bare in terms of offensive centerman as the two best guys they have in the system are projected to be two way centers in Anton Lander and Riley Nash, and Nash's development isn't going well as a hockey player because of Cornell's rather middling hockey program.
Given how close everyone is scoring the 1st and 2nd pick the Oilers desperately need a center, bottom line.


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Damiki Kaiser 2 Weedless Wacky Heads 3pk
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An Evening With Jillian Michaels at the Genesee Theatre
Each show is a truly unique, interactive evening of wit, humor, inspiration, information, and audience Q&A that will help you shatter any and all obstacles holding you back. In her trademark, authentic no-nonsense style, Jillian answers your questions, shares her personal stories, and offers up the critical tools for taking control of your health, your emotions, your relationships, your career, and ultimately your life.
2016 Rock n Roll Hall of Fame inductee, Cheap Trick is part of the fiber of American music, inspiring and delighting generations with their unique union of massive melodies and razorblade riffs, their own special brand of mischievous wit and maximum rock 'n' roll.
Chicago Botanic Garden- Weekend Family Classes
Together, adults and children can explore cool things about how plants connect to science, art, history, and culture. Each program includes a variety of hands-on activities and projects, as well as opportunities to bring the Garden home. Programs run from November through April on Saturdays.
Children's China at Kohl Children's Museum
Head to the Kohl Children's Museum in Glenview for its newest exhibit: Children's China. Children's China portrays the present-day activities that Chinese families practice, as well as their roots in Confucius' teachings. Read Confucius' quotes, explore hands-on activities, and immerse yourself in innovative technology and authentic artifacts to gain an understanding of Confucius' impact on modern Chinese life.
Children's China at the Kohl Children's Museum
Children's China portrays the present-day activities that Chinese families practice, as well as their roots in Confucius' teachings. Read Confucius' quotes, explore hands-on activities, and immerse yourself in innovative technology and authentic artifacts to gain an understanding of Confucius' impact on modern Chinese life.
Dokken, Warrant & Firehouse at the Genesee
At a time when the charts were ruled by pop-metal acts, Dokken's captivating stage presence and high energy style brought us some of the greatest rock music of the 1980s. With Warrant performing hits like Cherry Pie, and Firehouse, performing hits like Love of a Lifetime, this show will rock you.
Fountain Square Art Festival is the largest and oldest fine arts fair on Chicago's majestic North Shore. Featuring the eclectic works of more than 150 juried artists, a popular children's art tent with fun activities overseen by the acclaimed Evanston Art Center, food and a soothing jazz-centric music lineup. Location: Church & Sherman in Downtown Evanston.
Jack Hanna at the Genesee Theatre
America's most beloved animal expert, Jack Hanna, brings his three-time Emmy Award winning television series to the live stage with Jack Hanna's Into the Wild Live! In this awe-inspiring event, Jungle Jack will introduce you to some of the world's most spectacular animals. Jack will also share humorous stories and amazing exclusive footage from his worldwide adventures. From the jungles of Rwanda to the savannas of Australia, Jack has explored the corners of the globe as one of the most visible and respected animal ambassadors.
Get ready for 10 Days to Savor: Lake County Restaurant Week happening March 3-12, 2017. Discover delectable dining all across Lake County. Lake County Restaurant Week is the perfect opportunity to explore new places to dine, or enjoy old favorites. Each participating restaurant will offer a special Restaurant Week prix fixe menu or a dining offer. This 10-day event only happens once a year, so make your reservations early to not miss out!
Madagascar - A Musical Adventure at the Marriott Theatre
Join Alex the Lion, Marty the Zebra, Melman the Giraffe, Gloria the hip hop Hippo and, of course, those hilarious, plotting penguins as they bound onto our stage in the musical adventure of a lifetime. Based on the smash DreamWorks animated motion picture, Madagascar – A Musical Adventure follows all of your favorite crack-a-lackin' friends as they escape from their home in New York's Central Park Zoo and find themselves on an unexpected journey to the madcap world of King Julien's Madagascar. A special one-hour presentation for kids (and parents) of all ages. Filled with outlandish characters, adventure galore and an upbeat score,
Mama Mia! at the Marriott Theatre
ABBA's hits tell the hilarious story of a young woman's search for her birth father on a Greek island paradise. After reading her mom's diary from one carefree summer 20 years ago, Sophie secretly invites the three men her mom wrote about to her wedding. Set to the classic songs of ABBA, Mamma Mia! is the enchanting and unforgettable tale of love, laughter, family and friendship.
Operation Finale: The Capture and Trial of Adolf Eichmann
The dramatic story behind one of the world's most notorious escaped Nazi war criminals being brought to justice is told using recently declassified artifacts from the Mossad, Israel's Secret Intelligence Service. This is the first time this exhibition has ever left the State of Israel and the first exhibition in the United States to fully document the pursuit, capture, extradition and 1961 trial of a principal perpetrator of The Final Solution.
The Magic of Bill Blagg at the James Lumber Center
Bill Blagg is one of the nation's top touring illusionists, thrilling thousands and leaving people in complete disbelief as he creates the impossible. Prepare to be amazed as he passes through the blades of an industrial fan, shrinks his body to just 6" tall and instantly teleports across the theatre.
Its the best eye candy ever! The Regenstein Center Greenhouses and Galleries are transformed by trees draped in orange and yellow Dendrobium, a hanging hedge of pink and purple Beallara, and vibrant Vanda in orange, red, yellow, and even blue. See more than 10,000 orchids in all. Bring a camera.
Vernon Hills' 4th Annual Craft Beer Festival
Attention Craft Beer Aficionados! There will be several area breweries pouring samples of their ales, lagers, and stouts. Taste the micro brews of the area's most skilled brew masters and listen to live music. Food is available for purchase. There is a limited number of tickets available, so don't wait to buy tickets today! Receive a free tasting glass with each ticket. Must be 21 years or older.
CITY:Vernon Hills
You've Got A Friend 'The Music of Carole King and James Taylor' at the James Lumber Center
This nostalgic concert performance pays homage to the music, lyrics and melodies that comprise the timeless songbook of Carole King and James Taylor. Two long-time friends and collaborators, hit songwriter, Kirsti Mann, and national recording artist, Jonathan Birchfield, share their incredible onstage chemistry and unique artistry, capturing the essence of friendship through music.
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