text:
Skip to comments.Lesbian federal worker wins health benefits case
Posted on 02/22/2012 8:52:43 PM PST by SmithL
an Francisco (AP) --
A federal judge in San Francisco ruled Wednesday that the U.S. government cannot deny health benefits to the wife of a lesbian court employee by relying on the 1996 law that bars government recognition of same-sex unions.
U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White said that because the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutionally discriminates against same-sex married couples, the government's refusal to furnish health insurance to Karen Golinski's wife is unjustified.
"The Court finds that DOMA, as applied to Ms. Golinski, violates her right to equal protection of the law ... by, without substantial justification or rational basis, refusing to recognize her lawful marriage to prevent provision of health insurance coverage to her spouse," White wrote in a 43-page decision that marks the third time in less than two years a federal court has declared the act unconstitutional.
Golinski, a staff lawyer for the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, has been trying to secure spousal benefits for her wife, Amy Cunninghis,
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
Why shouldn't I be able to get benefits for my pet cats as though they were sons and daughters? This is unconstitutional speciesism! WAAAAAAH!
Amy Cunninghis! The jokes write themselves.
I live way up here in Alaska and work with a lot of Yup'ik and Inupiaq people, sometimes called Eskimos. A friend of mine recently told me that there's an Inupiaq word for lesbian. The word is "ilickulick."
God, that's crude. Hope I don't get the zot for that.
"Amy Cunninghis"
Wait... wait. HAHAHAHA
I had to take a second look at that last name also. With this "marriage", I think Amy would have a good reason to change her name.
Pulling our legs?
The Eskimos actually did borrow the word from English?
A very weird coinkydink?
Amazing how DOMA has suddenly become unconstitutional.
I don't know where the Inupiaq got the joke from, other than a lot of Eskimoan words tend to end with that "ick" sound - although it is usually spelled "iq" or "aq." I gotta admit that I love living with folks from those cultures - fun, mellow, and many of the ladies are among the most beautiful I've ever seen anywhere.
So since you didn't ask...
Did you hear about the Eskimo who used to sneak around and look in windows to catch a peek at girls? You must mean Tommy Tookalook.
Interesting. But the Bush family is hardly opposed ,to homosexual marriage. Indeed, they have sent out the women publicly to announce their approval. Pure cynicism.
Everything you knew in your younger days has been toppled; marriage has been destroyed, "white" men are completely marginalized, we press buttons to hear English on phone menus, our fast food places have Latino items on the menus, and our country bears no resemblance to what it was 30 years ago.
Less than a mile from me they buried a 20 year-old Marine on Monday who died in Afghanistan; for the life of me I have no idea what he died for. I know what he thought he was dying for, but he didn't die for "our country" (whatever that means now). He died after having perverts forced on the military, and just weeks after Obama's sweeping attack on religion. What a shame...
Destroying the budget, one lesbian parasite fraud of a desperate retarded government worker at a time.
I know I'll draw fire for this, but govt should get out of the marriage business, and let insurance companies cover people as they wish without the threat of the damn govt. There's no reason for this kind of commie crap.
One's sacrifice will always depend on how America views and meets the future...even more than the past.
It doesn't look good right now.
It's a federal worker, arguing about federal benefits. How exactly is the government supposed to stay out of it?
Is the govt self-insured?
The government is what it wants to be unless you don't let it. Remember, they got organization; they got guns. Stuff you don't have.
Amy Cunninghis ???
Is this a pun?
"With this marriage, I think Amy would have a good reason to change her name."
So, may I propose that the happy lesbian couple henceforth be known as:
Amy and Karen Cunnilingski
It's not government money paying for these health insurance policies, it's taxpayer money (i.e., *our* money). Members of Congress, as our representatives, approved a law in 1996 so that same-sex "marriages" from one state would not have to be recognized by other states or by the federal government, which law was needed that we wouldn't be forced to subsidize health insurance for same-sex "spouses" of federal employees.
The federal government isn't acting as a regulator when it purchases health insurance for federal employees and their legal spouses; it is acting as an employer and a market participant. What do you suggest, that the insurance companies who provide employer-paid health insurance to federal employees cover whatever they want and whoever they want and just pass the bill to the taxpayers? So long as we have employer-paid health insurance, the employer has to agree to who and what is covered, and in the case of federal workers, U.S. taxpayers, acting through our elected representatives, are the employers. I don't want to pay for someone's health insurance just because she entered into a same-sex "marriage" with a federal employee. Do you?
Born gay, as gay as the wind blows
As gay as the grass grows
Born gay to follow your heart
Live gay and beauty surrounds you
The world still astounds you
Each time you look at a star
Stay gay, where no walls divide you
You're gay as the roaring tide
So there's no need to hide
Born gay, and life is worth living
But only worth living
'Cause you're born gay
(Stay gay, where no walls divide you)
You're gay as the roaring tide
So there's no need to hide
Born gay, and life is worth living
But only worth living
'Cause you're born gay
Got a better idea.. How about government employees stop looting my money and pay for their own damn health care? Then there's no worry as to coverage for Fido or Freddie...
What's the difference? They are government benefits. The government has to be involved in deciding who qualifies for them. Are you saying that insurance companies should dictate to employers who they should provide benefits to?
If the government needs to "get out of the marriage business", as you said, then what about bigamy laws? Should I be able to share benefits from my job with six wives (or husbands) and force my employer to shoulder the extra costs so long as the insurance company doesn't object?
So does this mean a mooslimb could get the whole batch of wives on their insurance?
That's priceless!
I don't agree with your premise that the govt should legislate the conditions that affect how insurance companies determine coverage. And one of the legislative powers in question involves the govt's ability to define 'spousal' relationships and marriage. It's clearly abusing that power.
Also, there's a point where the taxpayer no longer has a say concerning remuneration. It's the employees' money, not ours.
The government isn't *legislating* here; it's negotiating (on our behalf) the terms of a contract for which it is paying (with our money). The government isn't prohibiting insurance companies from offering health insurance plans that cover same-sex "spuses" (and, in fact, insurance companies continue to offer those plans to employers willing to pay for them); it's just saying that it won't be paying for such a plan for its employees.
How can you even suggest that insurance companies should have the right to force employers to pay for certain coverage? If Microsoft wants to be "hip" and "inclusive" and provide health insurance for same-sex "spouses" of its employees, it's its money and it can buy that coverage if it wishes; but you can bet that if an insurance company said that its plan will allow unmarried employees to list their best friend as a "spouse" that Microsoft would tell it that it won't pay for that plan and that if the company wants to sell health insurance policies to be paid by Microsoft that it better define "spouse" the way that Microsoft wants to define it.
And are you seriously going to argue that it isn't taxpayer money that pays for government workers' health insurance policies and that it's really the employee's money? Health insurance is a benefit that employees provide, but it is by no means "salary," much less paid for by employees. If you're married and your spouse works for a company that provides health insurance, you should get on your spouse's health insurance plan and waive your employer's plan, and then you should explain to your employer that it should give you a check for the amount that your employer *didnt* spend on your health insurance, since it's really "your money." And if you're unmarried, or have a spouse that isn't on your company's health insurance plan, you should demand a check for the money your employer *didn't* spend on your spouse's (real or hypothetical) health insurance, since, again, it's "your money." Somehow, I don't think your employer would fall for that trick.
Let me guess: when the government gives welfare recipients food stamps (paid for with taxpayer money), you think it's some sort of constitutional-rights violation for it to say that they can't be used to buy chewing gum? Because, you know, convenience stores classify gum as "food," and it's really the welfare recipient's money. (Actually, a welfare recipient may have a better claim on food stamps being "his money" than government workers have on health-insurance premiums being "their money," since the welfare recipient actually gets to decide in what store to use his food stamps while the government dictates to the government worker what insurance company will provide his coverage and what the coverage will be.)
If you want to argue that same-sex "spouses" are no different than spouses from traditional, one-man, one-woman marriages, then go ahead and argue that (not that I would agree with such view). But to say that the government, as steward for Americans' tax dollars, doesn't have the same right to negotiate the terms of its employees' health insurance plans (paid for with taxpayer money) than private employers have with respect to its (employer-paid) employee health insurance plans is absolutely illogical.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
>> The government isnt prohibiting insurance companies from offering health insurance plans
That's right, it's mandating it.
>> How can you even suggest that insurance companies should have the right to force employers to pay for certain coverage?
I evenly suggested that? Nope, just something you fabricated.
>> policies to be paid by Microsoft ... better define spouse the way that Microsoft wants to define it.
Strictly a private sector situation excluding any law that regulates policy structure. Not our problem.
>> And are you seriously going to argue that it isnt taxpayer money that pays for government workers health insurance policies and that its really the employees money?
If it's your money, then take it back from the next federal employee you bump in to.
>> Let me guess: when the government gives welfare recipients food stamps (paid for with taxpayer money), you think its some sort of constitutional-rights violation for it to say that they cant be used to buy chewing gum?
It's not the chewing gum, it's the Skittles. Go to www.no-food-stamps-for-skittles.org for more information.
>> If you want to argue that same-sex spouses are no different than spouses from traditional, one-man, one-woman marriages, then go ahead and argue
No, but feel free to keep on jumping to conclusions in order to protect your precious sense of statism.
Thanks Impy, lol.
You should learn the difference between being a regulator and being a market participant before spouting off about "statism." When the federal government compels employers with more than X employees to provide health insurance, it is acting as a regulator, and it certainly is statism. But when the federal government decides what health insurance plan it will buy (with our money) for government workers, it is doing what every employer that offers health insurance does (and did long before the government mandated employer-paid health insurance), and thus is acting as a market participant, not a regulator (a distinction for which there is ample jurisprudence in cases involving the Dormant Commerce Clause).
One Nation under God & Unalienable Rights endowed from our Creator...
The government is attempting to replace God and by doing so attempting to take away our freedom.
The government should acknowledge what God has already defined regarding marriage. NOT become a bystander as you suggest. It is only a government that acknowledges God that as well acknowledges its limits.
This is where Gingrich could really shine with his plan to reign in activist judges. I hope if Santorum wins, he finds a way to let Gingrich go after judges like this.
This is where Gingrich could really shine with his plan to reign in activist judges. I hope if Santorum wins, he finds a way to let Gingrich go after judges like this.
This judge is not only ignoring the congressional mandates of the DOMA, but he is redefining marriage and thus finding a right to sodomy where none existed.
I'll tell you what, I'm doing everything I can, including some highly questionable stuff, to reduce my tax bill as low as possible. F##k this s##t.
Don't know how to post pics, but one can be found at http://www.benefitspro.com/2012/02/23/lesbian-federal-worker-wins-health-benefits-case?utm_source=BenefitsProDaily&utm_medium=eNL&utm_campaign=BenefitsPro_eNLs
Save your eyes, don't look!
The 9th Circus is loaded with these side shows.
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USDA Food and Nutrition Initiatives Thrive in the Windy City
During my recent trip to Chicago, I had the great fortune to visit several places that were doing tremendous work with many of USDA's nutrition programs. One of the first stops was to a local school where children were really excited to learn more about where their food comes from. Read more »


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What Christmas songs make you tear up---not because they are sad, but because you've listened to them since you were very little and they make you emotional because you're so attached to them? Usually the melancholy ones will do it to me.
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You can easily crush the cookies by placing them in a resealable food-storage plastic bag and pressing with a rolling pin a few times. A food processor or blender also works well.
To easily scoop the marshmallow creme out of the jar, lightly spray a rubber spatula with cooking spray. The sticky marshmallow won't stick quite as much.


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Directions to Blue Monkey Beach CottagesAddress: Wasini, Wasini Island, Kenya
Average rating: 94%
Rooms from: US$ 40.03
Directions to Blue Monkey Beach Cottages
The coastal highway (A 14) connecting Dar-Es-Salaam, Tanga, Ukunda, and Mombasa passes close by. By car: coming from south approx. 10 km after the border crossing, or coming from north shortly after the town of Ramisi, take the D543 to Shimoni. After 15 km you will reach the small town of Shimoni at the end of the Shimoni Peninsula. Turn right at the T-junction and you will find the jetty including a guarded car park at your left hand side. There, your host will welcome you and you will cross over to Wasini Island (10 min). By bus: any overland bus traveling the highway A 14 in either direction will drop you at the Shimoni junction on request. From there, Matatus or Pikipikis (small motorbike taxis) are regularly going back and forth on the D543 to Shimoni, a small settlement at the end of the Shimoni Peninsula (approx. 15 km). There, your host will pick you up by boat to cross over to Wasini Island (10 min). By Matatu from Mombasa: cross Mombasa's Likoni Ferry on foot to reach the Likoni Matatu station. There, just ask for the Matatu to Shimoni. It will only cost approx. KSH 250, but traveling time is approx. 3 hours. From Diani Beach or Ukunda, catch the Shimoni Matatu at the Matatu stop near Ukunda Post Office (approx. KSH 200 and 2 h traveling time). In Shimoni, you will be picked up by your host to cross to Wasini Island. Distance to nearby cities (in km): Mombasa (74), Ukunda / Diani Beach (43), Shimoni (2), Lunga Lunga - Border Tanzania (10), Tanga - Tanzania (55) Please inform us of your estimated time of arrival in Shimoni so that we can arrange a boat for you in advance. A phone contact the day of your arrival would be highly appreciated to facilitate this 10-min boat ride.


text:
BioHorn wrote:TokyoB wrote:
Did you write up any tasting notes on the 2010 HLH Ba Ma?
Yes. I should put it all together in one! I did find the '10 and the '05 (Jas-e tea) to be quite similar. I thought the '10 was a better deal for the money.
I was also asking fracol. But thanks!!


text:
The Stormers remain the only undefeated Super Rugby side in 2012 after beating the Highlanders 21-6 on Saturday.
The Stormers remain the only unbeaten Super Rugby side in 2012 after defeating the Highlanders 21-6 at Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin on Saturday.
It was another impressive defensive performance by the visitors who also scored two tries to earn themselves an important victory in their first match on the road that moves them back up to the top of the Super Rugby standings.
The Highlanders lost for the second time in seven games to drop back to third place on the overall table ahead of their bye week and hold second spot behind the Chiefs in the New Zealand conference.
Winger Gio Aplon and full-back Joe Pietersen scored first-half tries for the visitors, while the rest of the Stormers' points came from the boots of Pietersen and Peter Grant.
It was a clinical performance from the visitors, an intimidating effort up front well backed by intelligent kicking, incisive back play and some bruising midfield defence.
The match fell short of expectations of a top-of-the-table clash, though the Stormers put in arguably their best performance of the season with their forwards dominating their opposition pack.
In the 12th minute, captain Jean de Villiers pounced on a Highlanders fumble and toed ahead for Aplon to gather and touch down.
An end-to-end piece of brilliance just on the half-hour mark extended the Stormers' lead, as full-back Pietersen collected an ill-timed Aaron Smith chip kick and launched a counterattack which he ended 90 metres later with a try.
Their suffocating defence held the Highlanders to just two penalties through fly-half Chris Noakes, and lead 15-6 at the break.
And although the Highlanders threw everything they had at the Stormers in the second half, they just could not penetrate their rivals' watertight defensive line.
The second stanza turned into something of an arm wrestle, with two Grant penalties the only addition to the scoreboard.
The scorers:
For Highlanders
Pens: Noakes 2
For Stormers:
Tries: Aplon, Pietersen
Cons: Grant
Pens: Pietersen, Grant 2
Highlanders: 15 Ben Smith, 14 Kade Poki, 13 Tamati Ellison, 12 Shaun Treeby, 11 Hosea Gear, 10 Chris Noakes, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Nasi Manu, 7 Adam Thomson, 6 James Haskell, 5 Jarrad Hoeata, 4 Josh Bekhuis, 3 Chris King, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Jamie Mackintosh (c).
Replacements: 16 Jason Rutledge, 17 Ma'afu Fia, 18 Culum Retallick, 19 Doug Tietjens, 20 Jimmy Cowan, 21 Buxton Popoali'i, 22 Phil Burleigh.
Stormers: 15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Jean De Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Dewaldt Duvenage, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Rynhardt Elstadt, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Tiaan Liebenberg, 1 Steven Kitshoff.
Replacements: 16 Deon Fourie, 17 Brok Harris, 18 De Kock Steenkamp, 19 Nick Koster, 20 Louis Schreuder, 21 Burton Francis, 22 Gerhard van den Heever.
Referee: Chris Pollock (New Zealand)


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A dependable daily trainer for the high mileage neutral runner, the Nike Air Pegasus+ 30 offers moderate cushioning and a soft ride.
The Nike Air Pegasus+ 30 is a tried and true option for the neutral runner seeking high mileage reliability. A forgiving platform offers a soft and cushioned ride, while the seamless mesh upper provides socklike comfort. No matter the pace, this daily trainer will help you take on the miles.
Model Number:
Weight: 10.6 oz (size 9)
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How It Fits (based on width D)
The Air Pegasus+ 30 is a moderate featured, moderate neutral shoe designed for daily training and high mileage. This shoe is Nike+ sensor compatible.
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Match Point
You can practically feel the fire burning in Serena's eyes, as she serves her way to her fourth US Open title in this hot pink number. Known for her wild fashions, Serena reminds us that she brings a punk-rock sensibility to the preppy pink precincts of tennis.
Perhaps the only thing louder than the crowd at Arthur Ashe at Andy Roddick's US Open farewell were Andy Roddick's sneakers. Roddick retired from the sport after being defeated by Juan Martin del Potro in a match drawn out by rain delays. Despite his defeat, Roddick's shoes ensured that he went out with a bang.
Earth Angels


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Clothes and Heritage: Chinese American Clothes from the Virginia Lee Mead Collection
Lee B. Lok (1869 – 1942) immigrated to San Francisco from the Tai shan District, Guangdong Province, China in 1881. Soon after arrival he moved to New York City's Chinatown where he worked in the Quong Yuen Shing & Co. general store. With some English skills he became head of the store in 1894 allowing him to upgrade his identity papers from "coolie" to "merchant." This change in status exempted him from the restrictions imposed by the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 which barred the entry of Chinese laborers who had not already been in the United States. This change enabled Lee to marry Ng Shee in China circa 1900 and return to New York. Living above the store at 32 Mott Street, the couple raised seven children.
Mr. Lee behind the counter (in the center) of the Quong Yuen Shing & Co. store, c. 1917
In New York, Lee founded the Chinese Merchants Association, and in 1918 he was recognized as a prominent member of the Chinese community; however U.S. laws prohibited him from becoming an American citizen. His children all attended college becoming teachers, doctors and business people.
"Clothes and Heritage: Chinese American Clothes from the Virginia Lee Mead Collection - Introduction " showing 1 items.
1900 - 1910 Chinese American Woman's Blouse
- Description (Brief)
- In America, Mrs. Lee wore this tunic-length satin blouse with side buttons made from 1890 Hong Kong coins. The generously cut blouse or sam, often reaching the calf, was worn over trousers.
- Mrs. Lee wore traditional Chinese clothes when she occasionally accompanied her children to the local movie houses. According to her daughter Grace, since she did not understand English she made up her own storyline to accompany the films' images.
- Location
- Currently not on view
- date made
- ca 1905
- maker
- unknown
- ID Number
- 1992.0620.08
- catalog number
- 1992.0620.08
- accession number
- 1992.0620
- Data Source
- National Museum of American History, Kenneth E. Behring Center


text:
(30) Customer Reviews
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text:
The Brumbies further silenced their doubters by ending the Highlanders' unbeaten start to Super Rugby 2012, overcoming them 33-26.
The Brumbies further silenced their doubters by ending the Highlanders' unbeaten start to Super Rugby 2012, overcoming them 33-26 in Canberra.
A couple of tries from wing Joe Tomane and one for openside flank Michael Hooper to accompany 18 points from the boot of Christian Lealiifano saw the Australian outfit cause a shock result.
Saturday's victory takes the Brumbies top of their conference, temporarily at least, with an improved intensity at the breakdown and strong counter-attacking ability helping them over the finish line.
It was the first taste of defeat in 2012 for Jamie Joseph's side, who were missing John Hardie and key player Adam Thomson for the clash.
Their tries came from Aaron Smith and Shaun Treeby, while Colin Slade added 13 points and Chris Noakes slotted over a penalty later on.
What will be a major worry for the Highlanders is the loss of fly-half Slade, who was taken off in an ambulance with a serious ankle fracture.
Slade, who injured his groin as Dan Carter's replacement for the All Blacks in last year's World Cup, has had dreadful luck with injuries, breaking his jaw twice in recent seasons.
The Brumbies were up 14-3 after 16 minutes after rugby league covert Joe Tomane scored twice. His first score came in fourth minute against the run of play as he intercepted a pass before running the length of the field to the line. Tomane's second try, after Slade had kicked a drop-goal, saw good work from outside centre Andrew Smith finished off by the wing.
The Highlanders pulled it back to trail 17-13 when Hosea Gear sliced through to put scrum-half Smith over, but the Brumbies led 20-13 at the break to warm their 12,000 supporters.
The resolute Highlanders levelled twice in the second half but the clinching try for the Brumbies came in the 63rd minute when Hooper picked up a loose ball from a maul and charged over for Lealiifano to convert for a 33-26 lead which they safely held to full-time.
The scorers:
For Brumbies:
Tries: Tomane 2, Hooper
Con: Lealiifano 3
Pen: Lealiifano 4
For Highlanders:
Tries: A Smith, Treeby
Con: Slade 2
Pen: Slade 2, Noakes
Drop: Slade
Brumbies: 15 Jesse Mogg, 14 Joe Tomane, 13 Andrew Smith, 12 Pat McCabe, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Christian Lealiifano, 9 Nic White, 8 Ben Mowen (c), 7 Michael Hooper, 6 Peter Kimlin, 5 Sam Carter, 4 Leon Power, 3 Dan Palmer, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 Ben Alexander.
Replacements: 16 Anthony Hegarty, 17 Ruaidhri Murphy, 18 Scott Fardy, 19 Ita Vaea, 20 Ian Prior, 21 Zack Holmes, 22 Tevita Kuridrani.
Highlanders: 15 Ben Smith, 14 Kade Poki, 13 Tamati Ellison, 12 Shaun Treeby, 11 Hosea Gear, 10 Colin Slade, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Nasi Manu, 7 Doug Tietjens, 6 James Haskell, 5 Culum Retallick, 4 Josh Bekhuis, 3 Chris King, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Jamie Mackintosh (c).
Replacements: 16 Jason Rutledge, 17 Bronson Murray, 18 Nick Crosswell, 19 Elliot Dixon, 20 Jimmy Cowan, 21 Chris Noakes, 22 Buxton Popoali'i.
Referee: Lourens van der Merwe (South Africa)


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Girl Scouts of North-Central Alabama invites all high school age Girl Scouts to their Young Women's Leadership Summit. The event is April 17 - 18 at the Alabama 4-H Center in Columbiana.
Check-in at 6 p.m. Friday and check out at 4 p.m. Saturday.
Join GSNCA for a weekend of fun and leadership!
Workshops begin at 9:30 a.m. on Saturday.
The cost is $50 per girl including lodging, food, BPW/GS Leadership Patch and more.
Saturday sessions include:
Standing Out in a Crowd, Leadership 101 and It's All About You
Friday night activities include:
Putt-putt golf, volleyball or just hanging out!
Mail, fax or e-mail the Registration Form to the Huntsville Service Center:
Marie Gill, 1515 Sparkman Drive NW, Huntsville, AL 35816
Fax: 256-882-1750
E-mail: email@example.com
For more information, contact Debbie LeBron at email@example.com or 800-447-5755.


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Next Step Ballroom & Latin dancing at Malhamdale
Viennese Waltz & Paso Doble
Code: MDDNSPrint page
Activity types:
Rural peace
Holiday overview
Viennese Waltz & Paso Doble will be taught on this holiday
These holidays are designed for those with previous experience in any of the Ballroom & Latin dances, perhaps gained on our Introduction to Ballroom & Latin holidays. You will be introduced to some of the more complex dances and with only two dances to learn on each holiday, you'll have plenty of time to practice your steps and technique.
Holiday highlights:
- Enjoy dance sessions every morning and afternoon
- Learn in a fun and relaxed environment
- All our Country Houses have a good dance floor and sound equipment
Great reasons to join us:
- Great value: all prices include Full Board en-suite accommodation, tuition from an expert leader and guided afternoon walks
- Sociability: spend time with like-minded people in a fun and relaxed environment
- Expert leaders: our leaders are expert in their field and will ensure that you get the most from your holiday
- Accommodation: enjoy high quality accommodation and excellent food at all our Country Houses
Retaining its 19th century grandeur Newfield Hall is our most stately Country House. With excellent accommodation and facilities it is also our most popular location for walking and leisure activity holidays.
Newfield Hall has 48 bedrooms located either in the main building or in the tastefully converted coach house.
Our classic bedrooms offer comfortable accommodation and an en-suite bathroom with bath or shower. They also have TV, hairdryer, and tea and coffee making facilities. Single rooms are available at no extra charge.
You can enjoy extra space or exceptional views plus additional facilities including a towelling robe and complimentary slippers when you upgrade to a premium bedroom. Premium rooms are available at just £10 extra per person per night.
If you are travelling with your family, we have a selection of 3 and 4-bedded family bedrooms. These have all the facilities of our classic rooms plus full sized twin or double beds for adults and bunk beds or occasional beds for children.
All our Country Houses are tailored to the needs of walkers and outdoor enthusiasts and have excellent boot and drying rooms.
Newfield Hall is one of our largest Country Houses, and the grand entrance hall and main staircase is one of the most striking features.
There are two lounges and a bar which provide comfortable spaces for relaxation. The new dining room and adjacent ballroom are both very attractive and can be used for larger functions.
A multi-purpose activity room can either be used as a painting studio, or as a games room with table tennis. There is also a range of board games and books.
Free WiFi is available in some public rooms.
The heated indoor swimming pool is very popular with our guests.
Newfield Hall has extensive gardens with views of the Yorkshire Dales. Outside there is a walled garden and putting green.
All holidays at our Country Houses are Full Board with all meals included, from dinner on arrival to breakfast on the day of your departure.
Start your day with our extensive breakfast. Choose from a wide selection on the cold buffet and/or a full cooked breakfast. Maybe enjoy a lighter option of fruit and yoghurt followed by scrambled egg, go for porridge followed by a full English breakfast, or select something in between.
Choose from our famous self-select picnic lunches - everything you need to keep you going on a day outdoors. Your own choice of sandwiches is prepared to order, and you can add crisps and snacks, fruit, nuts, chocolate bars, sweets and biscuits as you wish.
Our house-based Leisure Activities include an in-house lunch (generally soup, sandwiches etc).
The relaxed dinner is a highlight of any stay at our Country Houses. With tables seating up to 10 and no seating plan, it offers a great opportunity to get to know your fellow guests. There is always a choice of dishes for every course, featuring good British cooking and often local specialities. A vegetarian option is always available.
All our Country Houses have a well-stocked bar serving local beers, wine and spirits.
Guided Walking: enjoy a glass of wine or local beer in the bar before a talk about the next day's walks. After dinner there will be an activity or entertainment which you will be welcome to join. These vary from week to week but could include a talk talk on local history from a visiting speaker or a team quiz. Alternatively if you prefer, feel free to just relax in our lounge or bar.
Leisure Activities: many of our Leisure Activities holidays continue into the evening with programmed sessions. Other holidays will have the evenings free, and you will be welcome to join in other social activities that may be happening in the house.
Family holidays: our activity leaders are on hand to organise children's activities and games for younger children before dinner. These could include rounders, outdoor games, or crafts. After dinner there are further activities for the whole family.
Self-Guided Walking: there may be evening social activities happening in the house during your holiday, and you will be most welcome to join in. However, not all self-guided holidays will have evening activities available – if these are important to you, please check before booking.
Newfield Hall is fully accessible to wheelchair users and has a bedroom specifically designed for wheelchair access.
Arrival & car parking facilities
- On arrival there is a long driveway with one speed bump on entering a large car park, with a lower level parking area sloping at approx. 20 degrees up to main parking area
- The surface of the car park is tarmac, with marked parking bays
- The House fronts directly onto the car park
- It is possible to load and unload cars directly at the front door
- Assistance can be provided with luggage
Main entrance & reception
- Main entrance has 2 steps, each step being 15cm high and a short porch (with one step of 15cm high), which leads to the front door, (3¾ft wide)
- There is a permanent wheelchair ramp (5¼ft wide) to the left hand side of the entrance way, providing access to the porch. A temporary ramp can then be provided to allow access in through the front door
- After entering the house, all the facilities are available without encountering any further steps
- The flooring is tile / short pile carpet
Public areas - hall, stairs, landing, corridors etc
- All internal doors are fire doors and they are all 97cm wide (except where separate measurements have been given)
- The minimum width of the corridor is 10½ft
- The staircase to the upper bedrooms is 5ft wide. In total there are 29 steps, each being 6 inches high
Public areas - sitting room, lounges, lobbies etc
There are two large lounges with wooden fire doors. Short pile carpet flooring and good lighting throughout. The size of the lounges:
- Whernside lounge 17ft x 23ft
- Inglebrough lounge 30ft x 20ft
- Pen-y-Ghent room 29ft x 18ft
Public WCs
- There is one public toilet on the ground floor available from the entrance hall with no steps
- Toilet seat height is 41cm, the basin is 82cm high with no underspace and with 2 taps
- There are 2 toilets in the swimming pool changing rooms, again with no steps
Dining room & bar
- From the entrance hall, there is a 320 cm wide corridor leading to the dining room. Door width 92cm
- There are no steps to the dining room
- Seats and tables are movable. The tables are round with 4 legs. Each table is 76cm high
- All meals served are with waitress service.
- Special diets catered for, but should be advised pre or on arrival
Leisure facilities
- Indoor swimming pool and the changing rooms are directly off the function room, accessed from the entrance hall down a corridor, which is 3ft 2 inches wide.
- The floor in the changing room is tiled
- Access to the shower in the changing room is over a step of 7cm in height
- The width of the door to the pool is 87cm
- Within the pool area, there is 1 alarm, a rescue hook and 2 life buoys
- The size of the pool is 16ft x 25ft
Room 15
- Room 15 has been specifically designed for wheelchair users.
- This room is off the main entrance hall on the ground floor, approximately 12m from the permanent ramp
- Access is through two doors, each 90cm wide
- One double bed and one single bed. Both beds are 60cm high
- Available floor space is 2m x 2m
- All bedding is non feather and the flooring is short pile carpet
- All furniture is easily movable
En-suite bathroom
- Bathroom door width is 90cm, level entry
- Toilet height is 45cm with 1 vertical hand rail and 1 pull down horizontal hand rail
- Level entry shower, designed for wheelchair users. Support rail and pull down shower seat, which is 50cm high and 32cm x 32cm in seat area
- Basin height is 73cm with underspace
- Available floor space in the bathroom is 2m x 2m
Other Bedrooms
- The rest of the rooms are a mixture of singles, twins and doubles
- The rooms are located either in the main house or in the tastefully converted coach houses, both on the ground floor and the first floor
- All rooms have en-suite bathrooms, most with shower. A few rooms have a bath
Grounds and gardens
- There is well lit access to the patio area through double doors from the dining room / function room with no steps
- Ramp from the patio to gain access to the grounds
- Garden is level in most parts, with a few steps. Mainly grass with plenty of wooden seats
Additional information
- Fire procedure is displayed in each room and explained to guests on arrival. Guests requiring assistance at an evacuation are identified at this time and door hanger cards are issued
- Mobile phone reception is generally good from the main building
- Assistance dogs accompanying visually or hearing impaired guests are welcome; dogs must be kept on a lead or harness at all times
- Information can be provided in large print
- Staff have received disability awareness training
- Special diets can be catered for. Specialist food can be obtained with prior notice
- Hired equipment can be arranged for your stay with prior notice
- Fridge for medication can be supplied
Arrival day:
Arrival day: You can check in to your room from 2.30pm onwards. Please join us for afternoon tea at 4pm. All guests are invited – we'll introduce your leader and welcome you to your holiday.
Other days - The timetable for the day is broadly as follows:
9.30am-12.30pm: Dancing activity with a coffee break
For those with previous experience in any of the Ballroom & Latin dances, these holidays will introduce you to some of the more complex dances. With only two dances to learn on each holiday, you'll have plenty of time to practise your steps and technique.
Viennese Waltz – you'll enjoy learning how to perfect this elegant and often magical dance which is faster than the traditional waltz.
Paso Doble – a stirring and dramatic dance based on a Spanish bullfight with beautiful body shapes and flamenco style footwork. Wonderful for taking your dancing techniques to the next level!
12.30pm: Light lunch at the Country House e.g. soup and sandwich
2pm-5pm: Dancing activity with a coffee break
Departure day: Depart after a leisurely breakfast
What to bring
There are no special dress requirements for dance holidays - just wear something loose and comfortable. You will be active so expect to be warm and dress accordingly. Both men and women should bring shoes with a smooth sole. Ladies should wear shoes with a low (or no) heel and ankle strap. Strapless sandals, strapless shoes and trainers are not suitable.
Local area
Discover the Yorkshire Dales
The Yorkshire Dales contains the quintessential landscape of Northern England. Enjoy the surrounding scenery of green patchwork fields, drystone walls and wild moorland hills.
Newfield Hall sits in rolling open countryside. The nearest village with facilities is Gargrave where there is a pub and shop. The market town of Skipton is about seven miles away. Here you'll find a full range of facilities including supermarkets, shops, banks, chemists, pubs and cafes.
During your visit to the Newfield Hall you may enjoy visiting the following places of interest:
Malham Cove
Just 10 to 15 minutes' drive from Newfield Hall is the dramatic Malham Cove, just one of the iconic limestone sights of the Yorkshire Dales. If you are not visiting the cove as part of your holiday, it's well worth making the short walk from the village.
The market town of Skipton, about 20 minutes' drive from Newfield Hall is a vibrant place to visit. Dominating the the town is its well-preserved medieval castle. www.skiptoncastle.co.uk
Brontë Parsonage
Visit the parsonage in Haworth, the home of authors Charlotte, Emily and Anne Brontë. Many of their most famous works were written here, including Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights and the Tenant of Wildfell Hall. Haworth is around 45 minutes' drive from Newfield Hall. www.bronte.org.uk
Keighley and Worth Valley Railway
This preserved steam railway runs from the centre of Keighley to Oxenhope via the 'Brontë' village of Haworth. The line is still well-known as the setting for the 1970 film 'the Railway Children' and boasts an impressive selection of steam locomotives. Keighley station is around 35 minutes' drive from Newfield Hall. www.kwvr.co.uk
Settle to Carlisle Railway
Ride England's most scenic railway through the Yorkshire Dales from Hellifield or Settle station. Heading north over the iconic Ribblehead viaduct you could head to the small market town of Appleby, or the border city of Carlisle. www.settle-carlisle.co.uk
Fountains Abbey
This impressive World Heritage Site contains the dramatic ruins of Fountains Abbey, the largest monastic ruins in the country. There is an exhibition of life in the medieval Abbey. Adjacent to the abbey is Studley Royal water garden – England's most spectacular Georgian water garden.
White Scar Cave
Located near the village of Ingleton, about 40 minutes' drive from Newfield Hall, White Scar is Britain's longest show cave. The underground tour reveals spectacular caverns, waterfalls and stalactites. www.whitescarcave.co.uk
Brimham Rocks
See the curious formations of Brimham Rocks above the valley of Nidderdale; around an hour's drive from Newfield Hall. www.nationaltrust.org.uk/brimham-rocks
RHS Harlow Carr Garden
Situated near Harrogate, about 50 minutes' from Newfield Hall, are the Royal Horticultural Society's gardens at Harlow Carr. The gardens have been planted to suit the challenging growing conditions of the north. Wander and enjoy the tranquil surroundings. www.rhs.org.uk/gardens/harlow-carr
The spa town of Harrogate has fabulous shopping, fine cuisine and glorious gardens. Visit the Turkish baths & health spa, Royal pump room and museum, Valley gardens and Betty's tearooms.
Lightwater Valley
Set in 175 acres of parkland near Ripon, just over an hour's drive away, Lightwater Valley has big thrill rides including the 'Ultimate', the longest rollercoaster in Europe. The park has over 40 rides and is fantastic fun for all the family. www.lightwatervalley.co.uk
One of Britain's most attractive historic cities, York is about a 1½ hours' drive from Newfield Hall. Attractions include the city walls, Minster, National Railway Museum, and Yorvik Viking Centre. www.yorkminster.org www.nrm.org.uk or www.jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk
Fountains Abbey image ©National Trust ImagesAndrew Butler
Travel to Malhamdale
Our address is: Newfield Hall, Airton, Skipton, North Yorkshire BD23 4AA
By train:
The nearest train station is at Skipton. For train times and general rail enquiries visit www.nationalrail.co.uk or call 03457 484950 (from outside the UK call +44 20 7278 5240).
HF station transfer - great value!
Our station transfer operates every Friday and Monday between Skipton station and Newfield Hall. The pickup is at 4.10pm from Skipton station. On departure day the transfer will get you back to Skipton station by 9.35am. This transfer costs just £10 return, however a place must be reserved in advance by calling 0345 470 7558.
By taxi:
If you can't meet our station transfer, the 8½ mile journey from Skipton to Newfield Hall can be made by taxi. pre-booked taxis cost approx £15 per journey. Details of our current recommended taxi company and rates will be sent to you with your booking. The return taxi journey can be arranged on your behalf by the Newfield Hall Manager.
By car:
From the south, follow the A65 from Skipton to Gargrave. Leave the A65 by Eshton Road, signposted to Malham and pass Eshton Hall on the right. Newfield Hall is approx 2½ miles further on, on the right and before the village of Airton. Look out for our sign.
From the north, exit the M6 at junction 36 and take the A65 towards Skipton. In Coniston Cold village take a sharp left into a narrow road between houses, signposted to St Peters Church and Bell Busk and Malham. Pass under a railway viaduct, then after a mile bear right over a small bridge. After a further mile turn right at the junction, cross the narrow bridge then shortly after turn left through the gateway onto the drive of Newfield Hall. Look out for our sign.
Travelling from overseas
There is a local airport at Leeds/Bradford which is served by European flights. From here take the aiport bus to Leeds station, then on by train to Skipton. Alternatively a pre-booked taxi direct to Newfield Hall would cost around £60.
Manchester Airport has a much wider range of long-haul flights. There are direct trains every hour from the airport to Skipton with one change at Leeds. Allow 2 hours to Skipton - see www.nationalrail.co.uk for train times.
Flying to London Heathrow airport is another option, but has a longer onward train journey - allow 4½ hours to reach Skipton. From Heathrow first take the Piccadilly line Underground train to London Kings Cross station. From here take a train to Skipton (1 change at Leeds) - see www.nationalrail.co.uk for train times.
Paul Bottomer
Paul 's natural sense of humour and relaxed approach belie his enormous experience as a four times, undefeated, World & European Tango Supreme Champion and World Cup Winner, All-England Professional Ballroom Championship Grand Finalist and a Fellow and Examiner of the UKA. He is a much acclaimed teacher of the most popular partner dance styles featured on BBC's Strictly Come Dancing, where Paul is also an occasional (behind the scenes) troubleshooter coach. He is a British Salsa and Merengue Championship coach and adjudicator, World Exhibition Dancer, international author of over a dozen leisure dance books commissioned, published and translated around the world, and invited lecturer at all major European Dance Teachers' Congresses. Paul just loves dancing and his enthusiasm is shared through a sense of fun and enjoyment and most especially, sharing in the delight of first time dancers as they master their initial steps on the road to a lifetime of dancing pleasure.
|Date & Rating
|Customer Review
|HF Holidays says
12 Mar 2016, 4:35 p.m.
Service rating:
Product rating:
Service review:
Phoned for more information - the staff are so helpful.
Product review:
Lovely country house. Friendly staff.
7 May 2014, 7:52 a.m.
Service rating:
Product rating:
Service review:
Fully up to expectations
Product review:
Excellent value
6 May 2014, 4:49 p.m.
Service rating:
Product rating:
Service review:
Easy booking - you actually get to talk to somebody in this country and they were extremely helpful.
Product review:
Great location and property. Staff were excellent - very polite and attentive. Food was also excellent. Highly recommended.
Dates & Prices
We're sorry, there are no dates available for this holiday at the moment. Please check out our other tours and breaks or call our team on 0345 470 8558 to be notified of new dates as soon as they become available.
Prices are per person
- Premium single room: £15 per night
- Premium twin/double room: £10 per person per night
- Non-member associate fee: £10 per person


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Massachusetts Congressman Richard Neal is calling on his fellow colleagues to postpone the series of across-the-board spending cuts, due to take effect on Friday, until the end of the year. Speaking at a Chamber of Commerce event in Springfield Monday, Neal says following through on the so-called Sequester will eliminate any possibility of coming up with a longer-term deal to address the deficit. Congressman Neal calls the Sequester yet another short-term gimmick that is no way to run the economy. He told the group of business and elected officials the cuts could reduce the gross domestic product by one percent, slowing down job growth and further jeopardizing the economic recovery.
"We are far better off taking a deep breath, kicking some of these problems down the road as the economy continues to repair on the edges. And then making determinations a little bit longer out. Question in point…Medicare. People see it as one of the driving forces of America's financial challenge. But it's already, at least on recent evidence, sorting itself. That doesn't mean there aren't going to be changes. But already you can see that medical inflation is at 3.9%. That's a long way from the 12 or 13% where it has been for the last few years."
Neal says American businesses are sitting on more than $2 trillion, not willing to release that money and make any investments until there is some economic certainty. The Springfield Democrat acknowledges that most of the public does not appear concerned yet about the impending cuts. But he says that is sure to change come late May and June when those cuts begin to be felt. The Obama Administration says Massachusetts would lose about $14 million for primary and secondary education, putting 190 teacher and aide jobs at risk. And about 7,000 civilian Defense Department employees in the state would be furloughed beginning at late April, reducing gross pay by around $43 million.


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What is Intel doing to visualize futuristic applications? Watch it live!
Have you ever wondered how Intel Labs' internal and sponsored visual computing research will improve your daily life in the future? As a technical marketing engineer in Intel Labs, I get to attend Research at Intel Day 2011. Thus I … Read more


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By Brenton Peterson CharlottesvilleVirg.
I read Gary Petty's open letter of January 15, regarding the proposed Greater Canyonlands Monument designation, with great interest. I was surprised to find typical bashing of the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance in the letter; for instance, Petty claims that the Outdoor Industry Association is nothing but a pawn of the supposedly evil SUWA. Doesn't Mr. Petty realize how silly it makes him sound when he claims that an organization made up of more than 1.300 businesses, many of which are nationally recognized brands, is "doing the bidding" of an organization with one-third of its revenues, and a tiny fraction of its business members? It is always easier to demonize conservation advocates than to recognize that many highly successful local and national businesses rely on open spaces for their success and continued growth. I expected reasoned commentary from one of the area's leaders on land use. In this case, however, the author seems only to have lived up to his name.


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By HOLLY LYN CONKLINTulsa, Okla.
Dear Editor:
It is an outrage to me that the general population believes that drug addicts have no place here except prison. How tragic for mothers and children who lose a child or parent to drugs. As a successful, single mother of two I never thought I would be an addict. A journey I thought I would never take, but I did.
I hear stories of families who give up and it makes me so sad and even angry, how do they give up on someone they love? I have a brother who refused to give up on me. He searched for weeks to find a rehab that would work and finally found it. His diligence saved my life. He is my hero. Without him I would have surely ended up in prison or dead.
Rehabilitation works. Because of what happened to me he now helps others who refuse to give up. You can call him at 866-648-7609. He helps moms and dads and their children and even little sisters everywhere and he does it for free because he likes being my hero. He says I am his angel. Imagine that, an addict turned angel. Of course anything is possible....if you don't give up.


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Skip to comments.Jayna Davis Radio Interview on JIhadist Involvement in Oklahoma City Bombing
Posted on 04/12/2011 9:32:56 PM PDT by LSUfan
Author of The Third Terrorist, Jayna Davis, explains the possible connection between the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 and Middle Eastern terrorism.
(Excerpt) Read more at securefreedomradio.org ...
I am so glad that you brought this up as I have her book "The Third Terrorist" which is a book that I would highly recommend. Jayna was on the scene of the Oklahoma City bombing within minutes as she was working at an Oklahoma City television station. When she got to the scene, she talked to people who survived the blast. This books clearly points out that there was a cover-up from Washington. This is not just another cheap "conspiracy theory" book. It is very well documented containing interviews with dozens of people who knew the people involved.
Personally, I find most believable the theory that the Feds under Clintoon were running these guys, helping them plot the bombing (similar to what they were doing in Portland OR last year), and then they lost track of them and allowed the bombing to happen and have been in total cover-up mode ever since.
Anytime you hear any government official say anything, just assume it is a lie.
I never thought of it that way but it is kind of interesting that they caught up with Timothy McVeigh right away.
This is the one "conspiracy theory" that rings true to me.
I have never been convinced of the official story in this case - or in the TWA800 disaster. Something is wrong. I hope we learn the truth eventually. It will be very shocking.
The OKC / terrorist connection reminds me of the GUNWALKER / druglord situation.
I was thinking the exact same thing!
Google General Ben Partin. Watch his videos. His research into the forensics is impeccable, and this honorable man is no conspiracy "truther" nut.
"Despite the Justice Department's herculean effort to airbrush John Doe 2 from the American landscape, history has appointed Dana Rohrabacher the star witness to Terry Nichols' affirmation that the third terrorist lives. It seems the government's monolithic wall of resistance has fractured, but the crushing injustice still stands. That is, until our elected officials exercise their constitutional authority to "correct" the historical record. The American people expect it. The truth demands it.
Jayna Davis is the author of The Third Terrorist: The Middle East connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing.
If you're really interested in the truth, read "The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis.
Remember the feds were watching the WTC1 crew...
This thread was reposted on 9/12/2001
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB: Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters (1993)
Yousef was assisted by Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin, who helped assemble the complex 1,310 pounds (590 kg) bomb, which was made of a urea nitrate main charge with aluminum, magnesium and ferric oxide particles surrounding the explosive. The charge used nitroglycerine, ammonium nitrate dynamite, smokeless powder and fuse as booster explosives.[13] Three tanks of bottled hydrogen were also placed in a circular configuration around the main charge, to enhance the fireball and afterburn of the solid metal particles.[14] The use of compressed gas cylinders in this type of attack closely resembles the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing 10 years earlier. Both of these attacks used compressed gas cylinders to create fuel-air and thermobaric bombs[15] that release more energy than conventional high explosives. According to testimony in the bomb trial, only once before the 1993 attack had the FBI recorded a bomb that used urea nitrate.[16][17]
The Ryder van used in the bombing had 295 cubic feet (8.4 m3) of space, which would hold up to 2,000 pounds (910 kg) of explosives. However, the van was not filled to capacity. Yousef used four 20 ft (6 m) long fuses, all covered in surgical tubing. Yasin calculated that the fuse would trigger the bomb in twelve minutes after he had used a cigarette lighter to light the fuse.
Terry Nichols tied to ABU SAYYAF
ABU SAYYAF tied to AL QAEDA
Was the Govt involved?
Only with the cover up of islamic collusion...
And yes I believe the same is true with Flight 800...too many witnesses say they clearly saw a missle...
Pfft...I probablly have more info logged on it than she does...
When someone doubts Saddams footsie with terrorists...remind them of:
I notice some disinfo on that page that the terror training has been "debunked"...
Yet first boots on the ground confirmed the training camp...pretty big firefight there...
Marines attacked a suspected terror and biochemical weapons complex yesterday after learning of its location from captured pro-Iraq fighters from other countries, including Egypt and Sudan.
The camp that U.S. forces destroyed yesterday at Salman Pak has long been known to Western authorities. UN weapons inspectors even visited the site in 1995 and found a hulking Russian-built Tupolev 154 airliner that some believe was used for hijack training.
If someone tells you we didnt have a right to go into Iraq..you tell them to shove it up their yang and break it off...
We where a decade late going in...
They were hiding out in plain sight for months on end..........I guess the Keystone Kops could have lost track of them.........
Bump to your post.
WOW...stumbled on this doing some further reading...
Remember Jeffrey Schilling?
I didnt...he was a "captive" of Abu...
Want to see a clear link between libtards and terrorists?
Check this out:
What made the 25-year-old UC Berkeley and Phillips Exeter Academy graduate venture into one of the most deprived and dangerous places in the world?
His mother and closest friends say he was motivated by an intense, if sometimes naive, passion for social justice.
Social justice.
Anytime you hear any government official say anything, just assume it is a lie.
OH come on! you're just a paranoid right-wing whacko. Next
thing I know you'll be telling me that the BATF is selling
guns to criminals and illegal aliens!
No one is more skeptical of conspiracy theories than I am. McVeigh deserved the DP, however it's interesting how his conviction and appeals process leading to his execution were put on the fast track. Also, where were all the DP opponents? Why didn't Susan Sarandon blather about the barbarity of such a "cruel and unusual" punishment? Was she too busy writing love letters to Mumia Abu Jamal? The day of his execution, the LSM didn't make a big deal of it, USA Today had a small article, and not even on the front page, with a picture of about 6-7 Quakers near the prison doing a rather lackluster rendition of Jesus carrying the Cross.
This theory is proposed to whitewash Bill Clinton.
First I've heard of him that I recall. Sounds terminally naive.
That is absurd. Jayna Davis didn't write her articles or book to cover for Slick Willy. What a stupid thing to say.
"This theory is proposed to whitewash Bill Clinton."
There isnt any "theory" to anything I posted...it's all sourced for you to check out...much of it from FR..
And I will remind you...Al Qeada (Abu sayyaf) was already at war with us:
The "alex Jones" type theory is that Clinton was somehow involved either let it happen or made it happen...
Apply Occams razor for a moment...
What is more likely?
Clinton would do this just to link it to militias...
Or Clinton is a craven opportunist who would cover up mid east involvement in terror attacks to save his "legacy" of mid east peace, and at the same time blame the far right who was hounding him...a two fer...
I'll take door #2.
nickcarraway, I presume you refer to the complete misdirection AWAY from any evidence or links to middle eastern terrorism as the whitewash, not the version of events proposed by Jayna Davis?
I first read Jayna Davis's book The Third Terrorist a few years back, and it was a real eye-opener for me. It wasn't that I discounted the government version that Timothy McVeigh was the prime shaker and mover behind the terrorist attack, it was the fact that I just never had the time to delve into it, to learn more about it.
Jayna Davis's book has the ring of truth to it. I'm not a big conspiracy theory person, because I understand that one of the superlative qualities of the human mind is the propensity to look at things and find patterns in them. We all know (simply from reading Free Republic!) the conspiracy theories abound, and that the reasons for them are many. Sometimes humorous, sometimes serious, but the events that we see are fertile ground for them. That's just the way it is.
But it is nearly impossible, no-make that completely impossible, to discount out of hand Jayna Davis's version of events. She isn't a wingnut, she's not a lunatic, she's not a conspiracy theorist. She was an investigative reporter with an established reputation in a major US city. Furthermore, upon reading the accounts from many different people, in excessive detail, one can only come to the conclusion that there was indeed a cover up.
There were things that just could not be made up, that have no other rationale. Look at the phone records of Timothy McVeigh's partner, Terry Nichols, who made those trips to the Philippines (ostensibly to look for a mail-order bride as I recall) and the phone records that show dozens and dozens of attempted phone calls to the boarding house where Ramzi Yousef was reportedly living from a pay phone using a card purchased by the pair of American terrorists. (This is from memory, so my recollection may not be completely accurate I have to read it again.) As I recall, these dozens and dozens of attempted phone calls all took place within some ridiculously short period of time, the type of thing when a panicked person is repeatedly calling a number that is not picked up.
The thing is, this book which is full of independently researched and meticulously verified information, is full of this kind of thing. What I find completely disconcerting and disturbing about all of this, is the vilification of Janet Davis as some kind of loopy conspiracy theorist out to make a buck. I am always surprised, and disappointed when the subject comes up on Free Republic, for example a thread like this, but dies out quickly due to a lack of interest. I guess it's old news, and a lot of people either just want to move on, or find the concept of even considering that the government was less than truthful in this case just too difficult to approach.
If it is a painful and disturbing for me, I can only imagine how crushingly disillusioning the treatment of her research is by the mainstream media, and by extension of the efforts of the media and those friendly to the Clinton administration, the treatment by the rest of the country in general of her work. It must be painful indeed for her.
I challenge anyone to read Jayna Davis's book, and finish it still believing that it was those two dumb asses Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols who blew up that building.
Several weeks ago there was a report of an ABC reporter being a MOLE for the FBI.
According to the report, a rummer was circulating in the intelligence community that Sadam Hussain had set up a terrorist cell in the US. The info made it's way to an ex CIA agent working with ABC news. This agent gave the reporter the info.
After the OKC bombing the reporter instead of just running with the unconfirmed rummer, contacted the FBI with the info. The FBI checked it out, and it turned out to be false.
What that means is, someone knew about McVeigh's and Nichole's activities far enough in advance that they could fabricate a story that would make it appear the "RIGHT WING EXTREMIST" had teamed with a foreign govt. to carry out the attack. If that was the case, the OKC bombing wouldn't have been just a criminal act, it would have been an act of war.
Amazingly, the talking points coming from the Clinton WH prior to the OKC bombing tried to make the argument that the Right Wing Extremist were trying to overthrow the govt.
Following the OKC bombing Billy had the spy satellites turned to spy on Elome(SP) City. Using spy satellites to spy on American citizens is illegal, unless they are engaged in an act of war against the US.
They didn't loose anybody.
They let it happen, and any investigation would have shown that.
You shouldn't allow Clinton to cover up his mistakes by blaming them all on Muslims.
How about some kind of documentation please....a link or article...
Jayna Davis started writing her articles within a week of the bombing and she was under a lot of pressure to drop it completely. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that she in any way was whitewashing what happened for Bill Clinton. You need to read her book.
How about Clinton was running these guys but when he found out that they were connected to big time middle-eastern terrorists, he turned tail and ran.
It's 2011, why are we hearing about this now? Ambrose Evans-Pritchard faced all kinds of pressure, but he published in 1997, when it was still relevant. If what you say is true, maybe Jayna Davis should be criticized for not making this information public to prevent 9/11. What's next, she's going to say a jihadist killed Archduke Ferdinand and started World War II?
Have you read "The Third Terrorist"?
I ask, because if we compare a book by a foreign journalist, far removed, who covers all unsavory aspects of the Clintons from sexual peccadillos to FBI coverups and might devote a few chapters at the most to the Oklahoma City bombing, to an exhaustively researched, devoted to the sole subject book by a well known native to the town where the bombing occurred that was researched doggedly over the course of several years, I cannot see where it can carry the same weight.
That said, I will read it nonetheless per your suggestion, but I do take issue with your suggestion that I am somehow taking Clinton at his word about something.
If I were taking Clinton at his word, it would be that white right wingers were the sole perpetrators of the OK city bombing, not muslims using disenchanted right wing patsies as their proxies.
The first flag came for me when television accounts shifted from looking for 'John Does' to Clinton apologizing to CAIR...
Next, when I realized McVeigh had had a loaded 9mm on the seat when pulled over in a vehicle without license plates while 'fleeing' the scene. After blowing up a building full of men, women, and children, why didn't he just shoot the police officer?
The more I looked, the more inconsistencies there were in the case: Unusual blast damage
missing security video
alleged warnings to personnel from certain agencies to not come in to work
accounts of recovery of additional devices
The list kept growing, including the involvement of Carol Howe (attempted warnings) and Andreas Strassmeier through the Elohim CIty group.
At best, the story the media fed us was grossly 'sanitized' and scrubbed of Islamic connections, at worst a complete fabrication.
Considering it was extroadinarily beneficial to the Clintons to have the entire bombing be:
the result of domestic and not foreign activity
something which could be used to stall the building consensus that the Assault Weapons Ban should be repealed
and somehow a means to quash the fervor which was building to have a serious investigation into what the Government did and why they did it at Waco.
Well, they succeeded. The meme was shifted to brand Constitution reading, Bible believing, gun owning down home folks as domestic terrorists, and continued to the point that Flight 800 was blamed on unlikely electrical problems rather than heed or even seek the testimony of over 200 people who 'saw something go up toward the plane' before the fireball.
Rather than being held to account for the various misfeasances wrought by the deflection of blame onto political opponents, the tactic has become so commonplace that it is routine, regardless of the ill involved, and the entire 'bitter clinger' meme has been incorporated in policy.
This has increasingly left the United States vulnerable to terrorist acts from the people who have been carrying them out: Radical Islamists.
How about Clinton was running these guys but when he found out that they were connected to big time middle-eastern terrorists, he turned tail and ran.
Nah, couldn't be.
a widdle bit
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How to use google search
You can use a Google to search the Homebrewtalk.com forum.
How To
Entering the following term in the Google serach box:
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party then hopefully a bit of gardening on sunday...won"t hold my breath though...
party then hopefully a bit of gardening on sunday...won"t hold my breath though...
Not outside that's for sure it's
Merry Christmas to all...
Its party time....
Lots of need for relax, my friends. Also, do some things that need to be done at home.
Its good we do not work on Monday, so, I ll be back at the office, on Tuesday moring.
And so, as Tiny Tim observed, "God Bless us!! Everyone!!''
A Christmas Carol - Charles Dickens (1843)
well it was going to be gardening today but its far too cold and windy outside for that...
gardening..weather permitting!!!
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Hogs Get Slaughtered at the Supreme Court
Suzanna Sherry
Vanderbilt University - Law School
February 9, 2012
Supreme Court Review, 2011
Vanderbilt Public Law Research Paper No. 12-6
Class action plaintiffs lost two major five-to-four cases last Term, with potentially significant consequences for future class litigation: AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion and Wal-Mart v. Dukes. The tragedy is that the impact of each of these cases might have been avoided had the plaintiffs' lawyers, the lower courts, and the dissenting Justices not overreached. In this Article, I argue that those on the losing side insisted on broad and untenable positions and thereby set themselves up for an equally broad defeat; they got greedy and suffered the inevitable consequences. Unfortunately, the consequences will redound to the detriment of many other potential litigants. And these two cases are not isolated tragedies; they provide a window into a larger problem of Rule 23. When plaintiffs' lawyers chart a course for future litigants, they may be tempted to frame issues broadly for the "big win" – with disastrous consequences. I suggest that it is up to the courts, and especially to those judges most sympathetic to the interests of class-action plaintiffs, to avoid the costs of lawyers' overreaching. That is exactly what the dissenting Justices (and the judges below) failed to do in these cases.
Number of Pages in PDF File: 38
Keywords: arbitration, clas action, Wal-Mart, Concepcion, common question, unconscionability, Supreme Court
Date posted: February 10, 2012 ; Last revised: July 4, 2012
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