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Skip to comments.What is Colin Powell's problem?
Posted on 01/15/2013 6:11:19 AM PST by Former MSM Viewer
He has accused the Republicans of lack of diversity and yet he was part of an Administration that picked the most talented people available.
I would quickly add that Condoleeza Rice was one of the most qualified Cabinet members Bush appointed.
Not that I'm big on defending the GOP, but Colon Bowels, in all his vaunted brilliance, is apparently unaware the GOP has attempted to run numerous good people of varied ethnicity in both houses of Congress. Is it the GOP's fault those people have been defeated or never elected in the first place?
FOAD, Powell. You were never "all that," anyway.
he likes the attention
Bingo! Look at how the Dims treated Tim Scott...
I think they said he wasnt 'black enough'
CP has an identity problem. He is no more a "Republican" than I am Napoleon Bonaparte. The 0bama-loving race-baiter is a perfect fit for the Democrat-Socialist Party.
The aptly named Colon Bowel.
What is Colon Powell's problem?
That's easy——after serving for years as a Steppinfetchit for various administrations he got as far as he was going, and now is looking to ingratiate himself with blacks by showing his racist roots.
He was way in over his Peter's Principle head but he was never smart enough to realize it.He allowed himself to be used and now it grates on him.
BINGO! We have a winner!
He's a racist.
Powell is obviously not well read in American history.
An elitist racist to boot.
He can't bring himself to admit that "The Great Black Hope" is an abject failure so he needs someone/something to blame. Being black his default position is GOP/racism.
He has had an axe to grind against the Republican party since he was shown the door from the Secretary of State position after Bush was reelected in 2004. Powell feels he was unfairly made a scapegoat when the war in Iraq went south. Since then he has done anything in his power to undermine the Republican party including endorsing Obama twice. So basically, he is a petty backstabber out for revenge.
Astute observation.
But colon is alo trying to curry favor with his peoples. Maybe colon be thinkin theys be retaining mo powah and he can follow the kenyan in 16.
His problem is he is not getting enough attention from the media and Obama. He has become irrelevant and he cannot stand it.
Simply stated, Colin Powell's "problem" is that he has no honor.
Yep, and ditto for J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell, Michael Steele (his other faults notwithstanding) and most recently, Herman Cain. The GOP fields them, and the libs tear them down... who in the hell are the "racists" anyway? I'm sure the answer will be coming from Colon in mere moments. /s
It's worse than that he really went on a racist diatribe. Everything conservatives say and believe was portrayed as racist.
Also, it's pretty creepy that all this race hatred is coupled with warnings that "we" are about to be in the minority. Someone needs to combat this racism before it's too late.
Powell is being a race baiting Obama proxy at this point and someone should denounce him for it.
And I'm sick of being told that we are about to be in the minority through illegal immigration.
What's going on is democrats are trying to make sure hispanics are racialized as much as blacks as a solid voting block. It's bad for America and the cure is to smash mouth him back on it.
He's a liberal socialist that regitered in the wrong party.
People who benefit from affirmative action - as Colin Powell did - are often bitter and resentful towards whites because they know they didn't get there on their own, and never know how far they would have gotten without it. Powell was promoted at a meteoric rate by well-meaning white Republicans his entire career, and now, at the end, the bitterness is coming out in waves.
He's a disgusting specimen, for sure.
He's a racist. And the RINOs caressed him, and loved him, and held him up as an example of tolerance. The RINOs got suckered like they've suckered us.
"He has had an axe to grind against the Republican party since he was shown the door from the Secretary of State position after Bush was reelected in 2004."
I have to agree.
"ON WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2004, eight days after the president he served was elected to a second term, Secretary of State Colin Powell received a telephone call from the White House at his State Department office. The caller was not President Bush but Chief of Staff Andrew Card, and he got right to the point."
"The president himself made no contact with Powell after Card's call. For two days, the only person at the State Department Powell told about it was his deputy and friend of decades, Richard Armitage. Powell dropped off his resignation letter, as instructed, after typing it himself on his home computer. (The White House later pointed out a typo and sent it back to be redone.) Loath to reveal either surprise or insult, he used the letter to claim the decision to leave as his own."
Armitage tendered his resignation on November 16, 2004, the day after Powell announced his resignation as Secretary of State.
Interesting. Still... I wonder why why Bush didn't call Powell himself. Powell served under Reagan, HW and W.
He's been listening to the racist Jesse Jackson and the racist Al Sharpton too much.
Powell is obviously ignoring the racial and gender diversity of the GOP party leadership, the 8 years of Bush43 cabinet and key advisors, the candidates who ran for GOP presidential nomination in 2012, make up of GOP's in Congress, USSC appontments by GOP AND the diversity of the GOP state governors .... not to mention the news and opinion staffs featured on FOX News and FOX Business
"rasist" is now applied to anyone of any diversity who opposes oppressive taxation and oppressive govt controls over individual liberty, and opposition to making America a socialist welfare state
He shielded Armitage from blame (Armitage was the one who let it slip that Plame was the agent) and allowed Libby to twist on the vine.
He refused to budget on the issue and will not give up his pride anytime soon.
I am also guessing that Powell is very resentful of the fact that he put his credibility on the line by going to the UN and essentially telling the world that the US had solid evidence of substantial WMD in Iraq. When the WMD turned not be there (more or less, at least not anywhere near the extent that had been thought) and then the war turned into a fiasco, Powell likely felt humiliated and harbored a grudge against the Administration for having nudged him into doing it.
Once Powell's buds become a "majority", don't expect they will treat new minorities with "tolerance".
Colon is a racist and that explains it
He's a bitter old egotistical racist who can't stand that his 15 is long used up.
His problem is that he is defending commie/marxists in the current administration. The only way he can do that is to accuse the opposition of racism. Never thought i'd see the day Colin Powell was a race pimp. Sadly, that day is upon us. JMHO
His problem is that he is at his core tribal. Tribalism is the utmost, and yet the lowest, form of affiliation.
Many would misunderstand my assertion. This does not diminish its importance, however.
It is very anthropological, at least in the pseudo-scientific sense.
It is also why there were precincts with 100% obama voting.
Same thing happened in AZ, where reservations such as the Navajo voted virtually 100% to put a lib-dem back into office after she had been sent packing in 2010. You see, the districts had been redrawn, by a "non-partisan panel", and it just happened to have been along tribal lines. Voila! It works every time.
America is now officially tribal. Who'd a thunk it?
Bush could not officially offer him the position during the 36 days that the Democrats were trying to steal the Flroida electoral votes in 2000, but it was obvious that Bush planned to offer Powell the Secretary of State position. Nevertheless, Powell let it be known he would be happy to be part of a Gore administration. Bush should have known from that that Powell was not a trustworthy person.
Colin Powell's problem is that he's a black democrat trapped with a republican voter registration card.
Colin Powell knows his place on the plantation. Funny how he claims the Party of Freedom and bashes it in favor of the KKK and lynchings...He has turned into a sad and pitiful shell of what many once thought he stood for.
He convinced Bush 41 to stop Schwarzkopf's march to Baghdad.
He's operating for Obammy and the radical left now. He's always been a race baiter.
He was only a Republican because he was against communism during the cold war. The Dems were for communism. The cold war is over now and like Obama, he does not like the war against Islam. So he's a socialist race baiter now rather than a GOP race baiter.
Powell is the ultimate Uncle Tom - he wants to keep blacks on the plantation when he was given every opportunity to get off of it.
He's black. He can't get over it. Now, with Obama, it's OK to be angry and bitter about it. About being black. IOW, he's nutz.
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Strictly Come Dancing returns to your screens tonight, signalling the countdown to the next episode of Doctor Who (and Christmas). And Whovians will recognise a familiar face.
Colin Salmon, who is dancing alongside Kristina Rihanoff, played Doctor Moon in 2008's Silence in the Library/ Forest of the Dead, where he tried to keep Charlotte Abigail Lux (or CAL) in check – though he was forced out of existence briefly when she had a bit of a breakdown.
The story was penned by the now-showrunner, Steven Moffat, and introduced Professor River Song… before killing her off. Her memory always lives on, though, alongside Doctor Moon in the computerised centre of the planet.
Salmon is perhaps best-known as Charles Robinson in the James Bond films, The World is Not Enough and Die Another Day (a film franchise which has reached its 50th anniversary today), but has also starred in… well, just about everything; from Spooks to The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency, Lovejoy to Punisher: War Zone. He's also been in Party Animals with Matt Smith and Secret Diary of a Call Girl opposite Billie Piper.
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Strictly Come Dancing is, of course, one of the BBC's two biggest shows, the other one being – – well, guess Who…


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Etihad and Virgin Blue Form Interline Partnership06/11/2007
Etihad Airways and Virgin Blue today announced a comprehensive interline agreement which will provide travellers with seamless connectivity to 22 Australian cities and from Brisbane and Sydney to Abu Dhabi and beyond.
The deal, which came into effect on 4 November, offers a range of benefits for travellers including full through check from point of origin to port of destination. No collecting and re-checking baggage and convenient transfer of Guests from Domestic to International airports.
James Hogan, Etihad Airways' chief executive officer, said, "The closer cooperation with Virgin Blue will enhance significantly the travel experience and potential destinations for Etihad customers flying to Australia.
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Virgin Blue Chief Executive, Brett Godfrey, said, "It is our ongoing commitment to add value for our Guests through interline agreements with like-minded quality airlines.
"The new interline partnership means Virgin Blue Guests who also choose to book international travel with Etihad can travel from anywhere on our network to any of Etihad's 45 international destinations with ease."
Etihad launched its daily service from Abu Dhabi to Sydney in March 2007, which was followed in September by the opening of its three flights a week servicing the Brisbane.
The Sydney route has proved such a success, with more than 60,000 passengers flying on the sector since its launch, that in March 2008 Etihad will increase the service to 11 flights a week.
About Etihad Airways
Etihad Airways is the national airline of the United Arab Emirates based in the UAE's capital, Abu Dhabi. Currently Etihad offers flights to 45 destinations in the Middle East, Europe, North America, Africa Asia and Australia.
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Boasting a bit of cushioning and underfoot protection, the New Balance MT1010 bridges the gap between minimal and more substantial trail shoes.
The Trail 1010 is the most built-up trail offering within New Balance's popular Minimus collection. Though the 1010 does not fall into the same minimalist category as other Minimus shoes due to its increased cushioning and rock protection, it does boast a 4mm heel-to-toe offset built into a lightweight midsole that allows for plenty of ground feel. We enjoyed the low profile feel along with the confidence of having a bit of substance underfoot.
The 1010 performed excellently on a variety of tested terrains, including dry hardpack and rocky trails. We found the Vibram outsole's bi-directional design to provide a sure footing running both up and down hills, and the forefoot rock plate delivered solid protection against sharp rocks on the trail without making the shoe too stiff.
The 1010 is built with a wide forefoot fit to allow for a more natural toe splay from footstrike to toe-off. Testers found that the increased volume took a few runs to get used to, but once they got situated they appreciated the more generous fit. The roomy forefoot makes the 1010 a good option for runners with a wider foot that may be a tight squeeze in other stripped-down trail models.
This would make for a great transitional shoe for runners looking to move from a traditional trail shoe to a more minimal option.
The increased cushioning over other Minimus offerings make this shoe better suited for longer runs than the MT00 and MT10. I would use the MT1010 for runs up to 30 miles.
Being used to narrower shoes, it took a few runs to acclimate to the wider toebox of the 1010. The wide fit isn't really a hinderance though, and those with a higher volume foot will appreciate the extra space.


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Holdover films including 'Twilight,' 'Skyfall' and 'Lincoln' remain strong at the box office
Brad Pitt wasn't killing them softly so much as boring them stiffly.
Pitt's crime story Killing Them Softly flatlined at theaters this weekend, mustering just $7 million and seventh place, according to studio estimates from Hollywood.com.
REVIEW: Brad Pitt does nothing softly in this well-written thriller
Despite featuring the biggest star on the planet and earning strong reviews, the drama couldn't get a bead on audiences. Forecasters projected that the film, facing no new major competition, would do nearly twice the business it did with at least $13 million.
MORE: The weekend's top 10 films
"Star power can only go so far," says Tim Briody of Boxofficeprophets.com. Briody adds that Pitt "has never been an automatic draw."
Professional enforcer Jackie Cogan (Brad Pitt) must investigate the heist of a mob-protected card game performed by two amateur thieves.
Indeed, the actor's willingness to do small and independent films makes him more a guarantee of magazine sales than box-office returns.
Before Softly, Pitt had done 33 films for an average of $66 million, according to Box Office Mojo. By comparison, Gary Oldman (who benefited from the Batman franchise) has done 32 movies for an average of $86 million. Eddie Murphy's 38 movies have averaged $100 million, while Ben Affleck's 32 movies took in about $51 million apiece, the site says.
Despite earning a thumbs-up from 78% of critics, Rottentomatoes.com says, audiences weren't as kind. Only 65% of moviegoers liked it, the site says, while other polled viewers gave it an "F," according to CinemaScore.
Some analysts expected Pitt to give a boost to the $15 million film, much like he did last year with the $19 million Moneyball, which would do $75 million and earn six Oscar nominations, including a best-actor nomination for Pitt.
But history would not repeat itself. Todd Cunningham of trade site Thewrap.com says that the film's date change from Oct. 19 to a traditionally slow weekend "didn't help."
The post-Thanksgiving weekend, which is typically lethargic at the multiplex as kids who have been on break gear up for school, was ruled by holdovers.
The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part 2 took the top spot for the third straight weekend with $17.4 million. The final installment of the vampire love story has done $254.6 million.
Skyfall, the 23rd chapter of the James Bond series, took second place with $17 million. It has raked in $246 million since its release Nov. 9.
Lincoln earned $13.5 million, just edging out Rise of the Guardians for third. Ang Lee's Life of Pi, which did $12 million, rounded out the top five. Final figures are expected Monday.
The only other wide release, the horror story The Collection, managed just $3.4 million and 10th place.
Despite the middling weekend, attendance and revenues for 2012 remain up 6% over the same period last year, Hollywood.com says.


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Skip to comments.McVeigh reference prompts responseDavid Schippers contends OKC bomber part of Islamic,
Posted on 04/23/2009 4:19:29 PM PDT by RaceBannon
McVeigh reference prompts response David Schippers contends OKC bomber part of Islamic, not 'right-wing,' plot
Posted: April 23, 2009 2:37 pm Eastern
David Schippers
Responding to the Obama administration's attempt to justify a controversial "right-wing extremism" report by citing Timothy McVeigh, a counter-terrorism group has posted a video statement by a prominent Democrat investigator who contends the Oklahoma City bomb plot was hatched not by right-wingers but by Islamic jihadists.
David Schippers, the chief counsel for the 1998 impeachment trial of President Clinton, probed the bombing with investigative reporter Jayna Davis, author of "The Third Terrorist: The Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing", by WND Books. Davis asserts McVeigh and Terry Nichols were not the lone conspirators but part of a greater scheme involving Islamic terrorists and at least one provable link to Iraq . The explosion April 19, 1995, at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building killed 168 people, including 19 children, and injured another 684.
In the video, released by America's Truth Forum, Schippers says there's "no question the Oklahoma City bombing was a part of a state-sponsored attack on the heartland of the United States ."
"I have been asked about the Oklahoma bombing and whether there was any kind of federal cover-up. The simple and direct answer is yes," he said. "Unquestionably, a federal cover-up beginning in 1995 and continuing to today."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
VIDEO OF SHIPPERS INTERVIEW here
for later
Schippers id 100% correct.
General Partin's detailed analysis of the damage to the building proved that McVey's truck had no effect on the building. Tim McVey has become the 'Oswald' of the building bombers.
Schippers busted his butt back then, making this case openly and repeatedly, but he lacked the necessary support from the Republicans to push it to the forefront. Sound familiar? Even then, they were selling us out with their gutlessness.
At the bottom of the posted article!
Obviously it did nothing to the Murrah building but blow out one whole side and the top!
Gernal who?
McVeigh and Nichols were definitely involved.
The rented truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel DID do the damage.
The truck was driven down I35, just 5 minutes from my house at the time.
I knew lots of people in OKC, at the time.
I absolutely think that others were involved, but to what degree I can not be sure.
However, McVeigh and Nichols were guilty. It is a shame that we did not learn more about their connections with other terrorist groups.
Just what we were saying here. What's more, some of the Muslim terrorists were double agents working for the FBI and the ATF.
Kind of like that Muslim CIA agent who did the OpEd piece in the New York Times this morning, saying that all that horrible CIA "torture" of Muslim prisoners did absolutely no good—which is an outright lie.
So, it's extremely unlikely that this story will get much beyond places like FR and WND.
It's mindboggling why the Bush administration didn't use the Iraqi involvement in the OKC bombing to make the case for Saddam Hussein's direct involvement with islamist terrorists and the mass murder of Americans. This was probably the most solid case.
Yea, right, and the US military's foremost expert on demolition was wrong, huh?
Say Baaaaa Mr Sheep.
Yes, McVey was involved, but just as cover for the real action.
These libtards will lie about anything to save their own skin.
After reading lots of information on this I determined, years ago, that this was a muslim attack and there was a cover-up. The government wanted the case closed.
I think that McVeigh was guilty, too. The truck bomb wasn't capable of knocking down the building, but it was capable of breaking the facade and blowing glass all over the place inside the building.
What the FBI did was to help him out, by planting further explosives on the support pillars in the basement, ensuring that the whole building would come down.
Its way beyond the scope of this thread to educate one as deeply in the dark as you apparently are.
The damage to the Murrah building blew outward, not inward. The video from the water co. office camera clearly showed the glass and window frames flying outward.
Partin's analysis is certainly interesting. But I have an acquaintance who makes bombs for the military. He told me that he could easily have made a bomb out of the materials McVeigh supposedly used and exploded them in a truck near the building with similar effect. Jayna Davis' book is also interesting, and not even irrelevant if the McVeigh truck story is true, but nothing is certain about what happened in Oklahoma City, except that some FBI guys took the day off to play golf and it helped to resurrect the Clinton Presidency.
It's quite simple physics.
For Later
McVey was cover.
His bomb didn't have much affect on the building, and there was absolutely nothing blown inward. The water co surveilance video shows all the stuff flying outward.
Partin covered all the bases in his report.
Actual,ly, I think odds are you are spot on.
And it was flight 800.
Yea, the same "depth" as you study everything.
Read the Partin report. He has no equal in demolition.
It is a shame that we COULD NOT learn more about their connections with other terrorist groups. This was a fine example of the Clinton administration not letting a good crisis go to waste.
There's plenty of evidence out there but we'll never see it. The same with the TWA explosion. I really began to detest the Clintons after I read Davis' book. Now I detest the entire democrat party.
All I can say in this day of 20 year long drawn out appeals before death row inmates are executed they sure got McVeigh out of the way in a hurry.
can not seem to open these videos.
As I recall, the Oklahoma University seismograph registered explosions at the Murrah Building a full ten seconds prior to McVeigh's truck going off.
There could have been shaped charges on the columns of the buildings.
Some survivors said that they went under their desks when they felt the building rumble. A short time later was the explosion from McVeigh's truck.
The truck held an unshaped charge that was not UNDER the building, but out side the building on the street.
The resultant blast went off in all directions. The buildings across the street did not collapse but had their windows blown out. The truck bomb did some damage, but it would not have brought down half the building, which was reinforced concrete in construction, that is, unless the truck was UNDER the building in the garage.
Funny how NO building security camera footage from any of the downtown buildings that morning was ever shown.
The deflection was immediate as to the cause of the bombing. Within the day, Rush Limbaugh and right wingers were blamed.
The truth is there were ex-Iraqi soldiers in Elohim City that were involved. John Doe #2 from Tim's truck became a legend by the second day.
A lot of people who questioned the government's position, well, shall we say, died in untimely ways.
Someday we will know the truth. But as an engineer, I never believed that the truck brought down the building. The blast would never have severed interior colums as cleanly as that unfocussed, unshaped mass of fertilizer did.
McVey's bomb was incapable of shearing the collumns.
Had there not been all the cutting charges in the basement, the whole thing would have been a job for a small glass company.
I was watching ABC news on Good Morning America that morning. the newscaster said the police were looking for ..."SIX swarthy complected men of Middle Eastern extraction who were seen dressed in jogging suits running from the scene of the blast."
No more was ever mentioned about them.
Wonder what could have been learned from McVey and Nichols had they been waterboarded or otherwise inconvenienced while in Federal custody?
My experience with you is that you do not know what you are talking about. I have spoken to someone who is an obvious explosives expert to me, and he tells me he could have done this too. What expertise do you have that causes you to say it couldn't have happened the way my acquaintance (engineering college friend) says it could have happened? (You can't even spell column!)
It makes absolutely no sense... unless he was taking one for the team.
Question: In what U.S. city did the alleged Al-Qaeda 9-11 hijackers take their flight training?
Answer: Oklahoma City
Bill Clinton's "Reichstag Fire."
You are so right ON with this. Isn't it amazing that it takes 20 to 25 years to put a murderer to death and the Government put Tim down in a month. They put the reporters that had a swatch of a seat with rocket fuel on it in jail. Read my tag line.
"What the FBI did was to help him out, by planting further explosives on the support pillars in the basement, ensuring that the whole building would come down."
I hope that is sarcasm, because if it isn't, you need help.
Just like Gerald Ford.
He said there was no crater under the truck. It was an unshaped charge that could not have done
I spoke to a Denver Fire Chief who was a first responder.
this much damage to the Murrah building.
He said there was no crater under the truck.
It was an unshaped charge that could not have done
"My experience with you is that you do not know what you are talking about."
I don't need any experience to know he doesn't know what he is talking about. Way too many people in this thread sound like Rosie Odonell. Tehy start with an idiotic premise that the truck could not have brought down the building and the next thing you know, FBI agents planted the charges. It's sick.
The only help he needs is to get the correct agency. It was ATF that was in charge of that one, not FBI.
Your 'friend' lacks the credentials of General Benjamin K. Partin.
You are either incredably naive, or incredibly stupid.
I won't bother committing to either.
Not only Jayna Davis' book required reading but a reminder of NYTimes connection to shutting down the investigation.
"Isnt it amazing that it takes 20 to 25 years to put a murderer to death and the Government put Tim down in a month."
He was convicted in 1999 and sentenced to death. In January of 2001 he waived all further appeals and asked for his execution to be carried out. He was executed 6 months later. All people sentenced to death get an execution date set within months of the the verdict. It is always lifted when an appeal is filed. When he refused to appeal the government executed him on schedule. No mystery, no conspiracy, no black helicopters. You people need to get a grip.
I wouldn't call it an idiotic premise. Partin obviously is not an idiot. My only point is that there are experts with different opinions about this and if you're relatively unwashed regarding explosives as I am, then it's best not to think you know for sure what happened.
should have asked KSM, Zubayda and that fricken yemeni what's his face when their heads came up from the water!!!! Yeah I know, I'm really sensitive and probably going to prison.
I appreciate the facts. You had my respect until the last sentence. I tell my liberal friends it is about ideas and issues, not personal attacks.
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text:
XChat  2.6.7
- Fixed errors in the Finnish translation that caused highlighted messages
not to wrap correctly.
- Improved the fallback routine when you receive non-UTF8 messages. It
can now handle CP1252 from mIRC users and the ISO-8859-15 Euro symbol.
- Added CHANOPT command for setting channel specific options such as showing
of joins and part, beep on message and color paste.
- /CLEAR HISTORY will clear your command history.
- The /QUERY command now has -nofocus arg, which scripts might find useful.
- You can now /set gui_url_mod 0, to allow left-clicking URLs (default is
4, for CTRL).
- Advanced users can /set tab_small 2, to get _extra_ small tabs.
- Added /SPLAY
- Fixed /reconnect and auto-reconnect issue [1525383].
- Fixed "restricted mode" errors in the Python plugin.
- Plugin Interface:
- The second args to xchat_list_int and xchat_list_str can now be NULL as
a shortcut to "channels" list for current context only.
- Added bits 6-8 to the field "flags" in the "channels" list.
- Added -m arg to /MENU. See plugin20.html for more.
- Fixed using the /MENU args -p and -e at the same time.
- Perl Plugin (Lian Wan Situ)
- Fixed a bug with Xchat::print that prevents printing out a single 0.
- Fixed a bug in Xchat::get_prefs that was clobbering the stack.
- Allow scripts that use a non-existent function for the shutdown callback
to be unloaded.
- Added check in set_context for undef.
- Added the fields from get_list "channels" for the current context to the
result of context_info.


text:
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An Ok MaskThis mask impressed me with the packaging and having used Fekkai products with success in the past, I decided to fork the $60 and see for myself. I had never heard of it and had used their Protein one before (a good one), so I was excited. I used on my long, highlighted and sort of thin hair, ok results, nothing to be impressed. Is basically the same Protein treatment in the white pot that costs $20 something, smells the same and has the same waxy texture that feels like it will coat your hair (it kind of does...not super pleasant btw...), but cost twice the price.
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text:
Top Definition
the act of ejaculating on the pillow, following sex in another person's bed, and leaving it for them to find.
i left a nice texas pillow mint for teddy after hooking up with imma last night.
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text:
By JOY OLSEN
Dear Editor,
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text:
Some interesting reading on proa design here
Some interesting reading on proa design here
Duckworks Dec launchings has a piece about a new proa launching, with a video
Here's a neat little tacking proa.
There's a used Hobie cat 16 at what seems like a good price I'm going to be taking a look at in a few days. Anyone familiar enough with them to offer advice on what I should be looking at? Ie, are there points on these boats that are prone to wear and failure, etc? I would like to use it as the basis for a tri. For example, this Woods tri uses production 16 foot beach cat hulls for amas.
If you do go look at the 16 look for:
Soft decks. Push down on the deck in front of the pylons. Soft decks are death, don't buy the boat except for parts, you have to do a lot of work to fix the decks.
Look at the mast for the comp tip. Hobie required a fiberglass mast section on the top of the H16 mast when they were owned by Coleman. Very bad, adds weight and also makes it hard or impossible to reef the sail, which is a bigger deal on a tri than on a beachcat, I would think. I wouldn't put a comptip mast on a tri like that.
I think you can find a better boat to do a conversion on. A Tornado or a big Nacra or something, really any big beachcat will have lots more volume in the bows and a better mast than the 16.
Doing great! I'm spending Christmas in Sanibel with family and have gotten out for two sails and two kayak trips thus far over Christmas break. I'm still messing with outriggers and cats--thinking of reorganizing the fleet a bit. Right now I have a Guillemot Expedition, the Ulua sailing outrigger, the Tamanu hull (destined for outrigger or cat duty), and the Hobie 18 all up in Chicago. My father in law has the Hobie Wave and three kayaks down in Sanibel. He's probably not going to bring them down to Sanibel next year, so I'll need to do something for next year.
I was thinking since Brett is leaving the kayaks and Wave in Wisconsin, I'll need some boats down South for Christmas. A pair of stand up paddleboards, a pair of sit on top kayaks, and a sailboat would be stellar down here. I could use some of the boats I have for that duty. I currently have the Ulua or Tamanu that could be the sailboat. An outrigger seens a natural down here. A big cat like the double Tamanu would also be a nice boat down here--better than the Wave for sure. It's OK solo, but an underpowered pig with more than 2. I might sell the Expedition and the Ulua to finance the other boat ideas...
Thanks for the update on your new boat as well. I hope all is well with you and post some pics of your boats here for the WB folks too!
I'll check for soft decks and delam. Thanks for the tips. I don't understand what you mean about the mast as I've never taken a close look at a Hobie mast before but I imagine that will be clear enough as soon as I do. The vaka hull I would build would likely be a lot more like a Dierking hull, such as
Here's a couple pics of the Hobie 16 that is for sale up here. There are very few on the market as this is not exactly Hobie country:
The seller is asking $1000. I'm not sure how old it is.
Hard to tell from the pictures. Do you want to use the hulls as amas? using the mast would be fine as long as it's an old one without the comptip. That's just a fiberglass upper half with a plastic luff track. Utter crap unless you hit power lines. That's why they went to them--big lawsuit... Anyhoo, the hulls aren't really ideal as amas, but that doesnt seem to affect the Newick Tremolino too badly (although there are guys trying H18 hulls and "new Moon amas" as well since the amas aren't ideal). Geting all the gear and trailer with the boat makes the acquisition worthwhile sometimes as the sails go for as much as the whole boat anyhow. Other models would be better if you can wait. There's a fella trying to get rid of some amas up your way over on the yahoo multihullboatbuilder group. you wouldn't get the gear that comes with a complete cat though. Another thing that relates to this is hull weight. H 16 amas are HEAVY for their size. Fine on a moored boat, but less cool if you intend to horse thm around. The designer of the boat you linked to, Richard Woods, strongly discouraged me from building the Strike 18 using my Hobie 18 hulls, so that might be a factor.
The Tamanu hull is sweet though. Having built two of them and sailed them as a cat for 200 or so miles doesn't make me an expert, but I do have some experience. Build it light though.
Its not hard to see why the H16 hulls are not optimum for a tri, especially a heavy one with a big sail plan. But that's not what I have in mind. How big and heavy was the vaka on the original Newick Tremolino? How big was the sail plan? In other words was a good part of the problem with the Tremolino that too much was being asked of the H16 hulls even despite their low volume and high rocker? I regret having posted the Woods Strike as an example as it gives the wrong impression. My vaka would be much closer to a Tamanu hull, if not one exactly.
These are apparently pics of a 1979 Tremolino with H16 hulls:
Hobie sails?
Is this also one?
Last edited by JimD; 12-27-2010 at 12:56 PM.
I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to build a Woods tri. So you're designing your own boat? Modifying a design? Looking for a design?
Rather than starting with a H16 and wondering what you can make of it, I would think about what I want out of the design. I'm very prone to buying boats, so $1000 Hobies on the beach like the one you show are a terrible test for me. But first, about this hypothetical boat you want to build:
Does it fold or do you put it together on the beach or does it live on a mooring? This is a big deal.
How much payload?
What's your budget?
How fast a boat do you need? Every step is more money, more trouble, more setup time. Look at this:
The Drifter, for example. If you just want to zip around and have fun at ten knots, man. Can it get any simpler than that?
Regarding the Tremolino, the classic version is much loved, but kind of dated. There's a Tremolino group on Yahoo, go ask them, they're real experts. Look on Sailing Anarchy too, a guy there called Oxygen Mask has a classic Trem, he'd be a good one to ask about how it sails.
Regarding the H16, I raced them and I love them, but I'd steel my heart and say probably not. If the hulls are hard it's a fair deal. If the mast is aluminum all the way up it's a pretty good deal. But look on craigslist first, you really want parts, not a working boat. And a comptip mast or soft hulls would absolutely be a deal breaker for me.
For example:
That's a better deal for you than the Hobie, I bet, if you're just looking at modifying a beachcat. You can't make a Tremolino out of it, but I bet you can make a nice boat. Talk to Gary Dierking or Richard Woods or some other designer about a center hull and beams for something like this. Stiffer hulls, probably lighter hulls, better mast.
One thing about the pictures of the Tremolinos above. The blue jib is a roller furler from a Hobie 18. The white jib is a Hobie 16 jib with battens. You want a roller furling jib.
Good luck, sorry for writing a book.
Kevin, what makes a Tremolino dated? Just curious. -- Wade
Last edited by JimD; 12-27-2010 at 11:17 PM.
But as I said people still really love the classic, with the Hobie 16 rig and amas and all. I drove five or so hours down to Brownsville last year to look at one. Basket case, the trailer never would have made it home and the boat was in bad shape.
I have often thought that a Tremolino main hull might form the basis for a nice tacking outrigger. With a small enough outrigger (say 13-14') I think it would remain rightable by one person in the event of capsize. Couple that with a small, efficient, rig and focussing the whole boat towards the light weight, low drag, low power end of the spectrum and I think a nice solo weekend cruiser might result.
I started the dry fit of my Wa'apa's main hull yesterday. I hope to have the second half dry fit and then glue up the whole thing sometime today. I took a couple days off work this week just to work on the boat. I'll likely put the bottoms on this coming weekend.
I still have not yet processed ama rocker. Most of the rocker on the new amma shapes starts at the middle of the ama then slopes back, right? What is the function of that?
Nice. It 's good having only 8 sections to deal with. Why do the stem pieces flare out like that, I wonder? I've meaning to ask Gary for months but keep forgetting. More volume? Plwood lays better? -- wade
Last edited by JimD; 12-28-2010 at 11:30 AM.
A question re the beam on Hobies and other similar beach/performance type cats: What happens when you widen the beam a couple feet to say around 10 feet? Somebody must have tried this already.
and searching the sailing anarchy forums for terms like "ian float design" will turn up pages of argument and counters, with Ian Farrier right in the mix, which is unusual for a top designer.
Trevor, looks good! You didn't make the mistake I made, you pre-drilled the holes for the bolts onto the bulkhead sections. :-)... I also noticed that the stems are very broad. I wonder why myself. Seems like even if they are rounded they would just cut into waves less finely than a sharp entry, but who knows, maybe more flotation up front?
Thank GOD christmas is finally over... I was gonna do some serious building this weekend but we got whacked with 23" of snow... if the dam economy would improve I could move to Florida!!!! So I wound up just rounding the outer "false" stems, drilling the holes, and making some last minute improvements. I have decided to fiberglass the bottoms of the hulls with 6 oz glass. I have plenty of graphite powder, but I wonder about UV resistance since if I graphite it I won't paint it, and the hulls will be bottoms up on top of my car fairly often, I wonder if the graphite will be so opaque as to stop UV degradation, or if I'm just being paranoid about it anyway...
I have also decided to glass the chines where the bulkhead meets the sides of the hull, the bulkhead which contains the bolt holes, that is. I am a little concerned about the strength of that joint, especially since I used gorilla glue and have heard bad things about the stuff lately...However, this necessitated that I curve the chine into a 1/4 inch radius to take the glass. I am now concerned about too big a gap causing water resistance! Maybe I'll put some epoxy and filler over the glass, then sand it square again? Or am I overbuilding and being overly paranoid about water resistance? sigh... I think I might wind up with another tank, like i did with my cartopper... :-)...
I also went to the woods by me over the weekend and harvested some fallen wood. I got a piece of pine, cedar (I think), and birch. The cedar turned out to be rotted (it was a pretty old piece), and the pine is less than straight, but the birch is a really nice piece of wood. I think I will use it for the hollow crossbeams. Still not sure whether I am saving money once gas is figured in, but hey, it was a new experience... I just need to find some nice fallen cedar somewhere and it will really be worth it...
I've also made some decisions about the sails/rigging. I will use my current cartopper lugsail, but make another as well and do a schooner arrangement like the guy who built the wa'apa in ghana did. He has no rudder, just steers with the sheets and balances it by moving the leeboard forward or back. I think that I will make two leeboards however, in tandem arrangement. I will rout out a vertical channel where the bolt goes, so that if I want I can not only move the leeboards forward and back but also up and down (until I find an ideal arrangement for each of the possible configurations I have...). I never really considered a shunting boat, but it seems that with the schooner rig, shunting would be extremely simple, and the advantage would be that I could always hang out on the comfortable tramp no matter what point of sail I'm on, instead of just half the time. I told my buddy about not even bothering to build a rudder, he said I better have life insurance to sail a "rudderless ship" haha... I am a little concerned about all those minute adjustments to the tiller that are made when sailing up and down swells, and how that could be done with sails and leeboards alone, or if they even need to be made, but people swear that a rudder isn't necessary, just a steering paddle for emergency fast maneuvers...
here's a couple pics of today's progress.
i'm using PL Premium for the glue on mine. it has held up to a good hard summer of abuse on my sailing dinghy. but, i plan to glass/tape the outside bottom six inches or so and then coat a layer of epoxy over the whole outside, before painting. i'm also deviating in that i'm probably going to go with straight iakos and a foam ama. i plan to fair and waterproof the bulkheads with automotive bondo. i also plan to have flat decks with box-type hatches like on a malibu outrigger and most of jim michalak's designs (also where i got the bondo idea, during a conversation with him in oklahoma this past october).
One of the concerns with tris is burying the bows when pushing the boat hard. If you put the maximum beam of the amas forward, as the boat heels it tends for this, and other reasons, to adopt a bow-up attitude, which helps keep its noses above the waves. But as the Shuttleworth article referenced above explains, there is a lot more to it than that. Another reason for rocker is to reduce wetted surface in light airs.I still have not yet processed ama rocker. Most of the rocker on the new amma shapes starts at the middle of the ama then slopes back, right? What is the function of that?
Looks great trevor I def see why you are stoked! So I guess you are building the 16' version in 1 piece, not the bolt together version? What kind of ply is that?
haha btw your use of the word stoked tells me you might be a surfer... if so, so am I, in fact the project that got me into boat building was initially building my own hollow wooden surfboard. I must have been a polynesian in a former life ... my next next project is a cedar SUP board, got a shareware template online from grainsurf...
i was a surfer (but not a very good one). it's been a long time, though. i moved out of florida when i was 22, i'm now a highly immature 38. a little vernacular hangs on from your youth on occasion.
i'm building the 16' in two pieces. the ply is sureply underlayment. i'd love to build a surfboard if i move back to florida some time. i have a cousin in st. augustine that shapes a bit and surfs often. i'm currently trying to talk him into building an outrigger, also. i bought him the book last year for christmas to give him a push. i also emailed him a link to this thread a few days ago.
you will definitely have to keep me updated on the SUP board. i'd really like one for summertime at the lake, when there's no wind.
I'm getting excited for you just looking at the pic. Nice job. I bet my 12 foot amas would be just about right on it and the hull would be big enough for two crew. Who needs a Hobie?
Last edited by JimD; 12-28-2010 at 10:32 PM.
thanks jim!
i think the 16' hull is optimum for a single individual, but can sail two or maybe even three up (depending on size) in a pinch. you just have to watch your weight distribution. no cozying up towards the stern. but, that's another reason i'm building the boat. there wasn't an option on my 8' sailing dinghy. when this is done i can take my wife or a friend along. which will be nice. the amas designed for the 16' wa'apa are just under 12', so yeah, they would probably work for a tri version.
ps. as for a hobie, if i were given one or could score one very cheaply, i would take it. but, that wouldn't deter me from my current build. it would just be another water toy in the collection.
Have u decided on a steering arrangement yet trefor?
Here's a pic of my first DIY project, essentially a strip-built longboard. Got me into building boats next.
nice! it's kind of funboard shaped. very cool. you could almost scale that up for a SUP board.
My next stupid question: Anyone ever hear of a Hobie turned into tri by just putting a center hull where the tramp is?Originally Posted by JimD
A question re the beam on Hobies and other similar beach/performance type cats: What happens when you widen the beam a couple feet to say around 10 feet? Somebody must have tried this already...
I've never heard of anyone doing it. Tornados are 10' wide, but they're made that way. 10' beams that will hold up big powerful rigs are non-trivial to construct.
(1) Standing lugs are easy up and easy down. They can be tuned with an outhaul and a downhaul but I tend to leave the outhaul be since wind strength varies so much I haven't seen the sense in adjusting sail draft all the time. The downhaul is very important, and even a small lug needs a 2:1 I think. A good parrel system has to be worked out. I tried a couple and am unhappy. I am now going to try the one that DaVID Nichols shows on p.63, FIG. 6-07 of The Working Guide to Traditional Small Craft -- Halyard snapped to heel of yard, around mast (= parrel function), clips into the halyward attachment point recommended for that rig, and goes up to the masthead. It seems functional and elegant.
(2) Choose boom and yard stiffness well. I tried a one inch marine aluminum spar last summer on my main yard (54 square foot lug), and just when the wind got exciting at 10-15 mph the spar flexed, flattened sail, and I lost performance (and for my dull senses to detect a performance loss, you know it was real). So, spar bending is great for power control but when the control engages is the question. I went back to my old stiff douglas fir spar. Weight aloft is not as big a concern on an outrigger as for a mono. Eventually I will get a bigger aluminum spar I guess just to match my others. But you don't want to invest so much money into spars until you know what effect their bend will have.
(3) If the lug is loose-footed, boom-bend will induce draft at the wrong time, so I think a stiff boom is good first choice. If sail foot is laced to boom, same issues as for the yardarm.
(4) Sheet attachment: same as for the boom issues: if the sheet pulls boom down somewhere in the middle on loose footed sail, draft is induced maybe at the wrong time. I run 2:1 sheet from traveler rope, long boom to the tack, down to deck, and bacf aft to me. Costs some blocks and deadeyes, but the boomis less affected, and the lines stay out of the way if you do it right.
(5) A lug needs a stiff mast; mast bend will induce draft unlike the case for some marconi sails, which will flatten and dump power (=good when planned for).
(6) if you have sails designed, your sailmakerwill ask you all these questions to plan for sail shape; if he or she does not, they are no sail maker. Todd Bradshaw asked me all the good questions and more.
(7) The standing lug is not the best sail for windward work: plan on 55 degrees *made good* -- pointing ability does not mean much if the boat makes a lot of leeway -- if your boards are good, and just accept ther gift if it does better. But it is a great all-around sail. Put tell-tales on it, midchord and trailing edge.
(8) The main sail will back-wind the mizzen sail. On a cat-ketch that means more power loss because more (relatively) power is invested in the relatively large mizzen sail. You already loose some windward drive from the low-aspect ratios, but also the boat sails flatter because of less heeling angle, but the shorter rig looses some power because the (on small boats) sail COE's are lower than that 12 feet of height over water where the wind starts becoming really useful. You can add and subtract it all up, and let me know what you come up with :-)
The adage for multihulls is, "going very fast on a close reach is better than sailing higher and more slowly on a beat." You may get to your windward destination just as quickly. But if you need to get higher because of leeshore or obstacles, well, that's too bad. I can pinch up and crawl at 3 knots around some stuff (at New Haven ramp, wind on ramp gives option of tacking into fishing pier and angry fisherfolk to port, and or rocks at the end of the short beach to starboard -- so I sometimes paddle out into teeth of wind), and on small boats the paddle is always there if you did not block up paddling room with all sorts of permanent aka-stuff such as side seats (make them fold aside easily for paddling).
(9) The mizzen needs to be sheeted in flatter than the main, so it looses some drive. On downwind course, it blankets the main. Wing and wing helps if you can maintain it; I seldom can, boat yaws eventually and mizzen gybes). However, I found the best downwind course is a tacking course, broad reach to broad reach or close to it. The boat goes faster, the gybes on a small lugs are not too bad (and gybes have less force the faster you go as apparent wind drops, so sail fast then gybe), and in general life seems better going downwind in tacks.
(10) Of course the mizzen is great to lie-to in a squall, or just to relax and eat your lunch bow to waves. When something breaks (usually not mizzen stuff) the mizzen is there to control the boat while you do repair. But....
I broached a month ago in rough water and stiff wind (my hand slipped off the tiller), and the boat spun very quickly perhaps because the mizzen (the small one, jibheaded) was sheeted in hard and the main boom (small 37 lug) was let out -- that might be dangerous combination. But I survived and the boat then turned bow-up on the mizzen -- all happening in a few seconds. Not sure if mizzen aided this near disaster -- boats do broach after all, without mizzens -- but it helped with it afterward. And in general the mizzen has been a good autopilot to bring boat automatically into wind.
(11) The mizzen is generally sheeted in hard to the canoe stern -- no big traveler span available. You thus need to remember to sheet it out if you come to a reach. The boat will keep going and so it can lull you into inattention to the mizzen which is behind you, unlike a main and jib, always in your eyes. Develop cat-ketch habits. If you sit on a side seat, this is not a big problem. If you sail from cockpit (on trimaran tack) it might be.
(12) The ketch-mizzen is big enough to be main sail in heavy weather, which is great. I went out in SCA weather last month (the broach) with 37 s.f. mizzen shifted to main, and 20 foot mizzen marconi raised -- excellent combination. It would help to have the smaller mizzen somehow ready to raise very quickly if you were changing sails on the water.
(13) Lucky number 13! You might ask if you can get much of the good stuff above with a cat-yawl, and reduce some windward power loss problematic to the cat-ketch. People say you can. Ask me next summer. My outrigger Short Dragon will continue as a diverse testbed as I intended it , one of the things I intended that turned out as planned :-) I built him with four mast steps, but now find I had not enough imagination to add a far-aft 5th step.
So I am going to add another step for the mizzen further aft so that the boom of my 114 sf balanced lug (off a Bolger Windsprint) will clear it, and I will raise as mizzen my small 20 foot marconi (or jibheaded, whatever). I tried last summer the big lug in 15-20 mph wind and the boat just flew but the taller sail obviously pushed the ama down; try 10 knots with the ama under water for bizarre excitement. But the outrigger was harder to control; it would not head up as easily without the mizzen, and it would tend to fall off and start going again without constant attention. It had light weather helm, perhaps too light. But I really missed a mizzen, so I will try that arrangement eventually. (I was going to try this for the Everglades Challenge -- great for light air -- but decided I should go with my old rig seeing as the EC will be offering plenty of 'challenge' and a new rig is not the time for that.)
(14) I have tried the cat-ketch with a small 20 foot jib set on a de-riggable boom, but not enough so that I can confidently comment on it. The sail is fine; I am talking about learning a 3-sail set of good habits. Three sails to keep track of on a small pitching, wobbling outrigger ..... I don't know. The jib is less accomodating to poor sailing than the lug, and so it does keep you honest. I will be bringing it to the EC, anyway since the days I did not bring it with me this summer tended to end up light winded, and I missed the extra push. --Wade
Last edited by wtarzia; 12-29-2010 at 01:12 PM.
Chris Ostlind -- nice boat, that new 15 foot trimaran you designed! Some wooden competition for the Weta?
-- Wade
Last edited by wtarzia; 12-29-2010 at 01:29 PM.
I have found very good results using a rooftop luggage strap from home depot for a downhaul. It is basically a length of nylon webbing with a 1 way metal fastener, but no ratchet. Extremely simple, easier to adjust than a block and cleat, prob can get a bit tighter too. As far as the parrel system, I am using Mike Storer's getup it is very simple (halyard acts as parrel) and works well for me.
By giving the yard a 45 degree angle, I have had decent upwind performance prob because of the higher aspect ratio. Also, in light air I notice that often only the very top triangle of sail is filled with wind, I guess above that 12 ft mark that Wade mentioned...
Haha and like Wade, who is more modest about his sailing experience than I think he needs to be, I am no expert but can only attest to the pleasurable days on the water I had this summer, occasionally with the perception altering effects of beer :-)
--- The halyard-parrel system I found in Nichols is the same as on Storer's site, so I feel extra better about it. In general I like Storer's rigging tips, and my main sheet runs more or less like his, with mine carried to the boom gooseneck to avoid bending my boom. I love the simplicity of some of his advice, such as the simple loop to hold boom to mast. -- Wade
Took a look at the Hobie 16 for sale. There was one mushy spot on the port hull but overall I think its probably worth the money. But don't think I'll buy it. What I really want is a multihull with some serious beam, hull volume, and stability, and that's not a HobieCat. I think what I want is at least one Tamanu hull, maybe two.
Last edited by JimD; 12-29-2010 at 03:55 PM.
look at a wharram hitia 17 if you want a stable catamaran. i have an online acquaintance that sails one in whirral, england. probably about as tidal and cold watered as where you live. he camp cruises with it regularly.
One option for a seriously large but simple build is to stretch out dierking's wa'apa to 32 ft, in two 16' bolt together sections. He told me he thinks it is structurally fine, and I imagine it would really fly with that long waterline but still be very seaworthy and easy to handle with a smallish, simple triangular hawaiin sail, like some OC6's have. If I wasn't bound to cartopping I would def have done that option...
I can trailer or cartop on the pickup truck which I currently have set up to carry two kayaks. In fact at the moment I'm set up to put two kayaks on top of the truck and tow the monohull sailboat on the trailer behind. I could even throw the inflatable dinghy on there and transport four boats at once. I also have a small utility trailer which could be easily modified.
Last edited by JimD; 12-29-2010 at 06:55 PM.


text:
Skip to comments.Trojan Horse? [Murtha medal issue a trap]
Posted on 01/14/2006 11:27:23 AM PST by Fenris6
"Former representative Don Bailey (D-Pa.) has apparently broken ranks and attacked the war record of fellow Democrat John Murtha"
"...The story was picked up by CNS, a conservative web site. In their report they also cited excerpts from The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 2002, and several quotes from political opponents in the 1990s that raised questions regarding Murtha's record."
"...But the quote used above comes from a Washington Post article that confirms many of the accusations in the CNS story. But before Murtha's political opponents begin jumping for joy, they had best take a close look at how the Post is spinning the story of blue on blue warfare:..."
"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts, they say. The Post dutifully notes the actual source of the accusations (Bailey) a few paragraphs into the piece, but leaves no doubt where this story is headed: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said, "The Swift Boat-like attacks on an American hero, Congressman Jack Murtha, are despicable and have no place in politics."
"Let me be clear: attacks on Murtha's Vietnam record are pointless. Murtha's latest statements against the success of US troops in Iraq speak for themselves; his current behavior renders his past insignificant. Democrats, grown tired of waiting for an attack on Murtha's war record from the Right, have created their own. He's painted as a victim now - of "right wing chickenhawk" contempt for real war heroes. But those serious about standing up to the current John Murtha would be well advised to let his fellow Democrats and the mainstream media keep this war "unilateral".
A trap for us?
I tend to agree with you. Anyway, we're on a roll just letting the Dims be themselves.
Even though a Democrat initiated this I'm having a bad feeling.
"A trap for us?"
Yes. I know independents who are angry with us for "questioning" Max Cleland's patriotism, even though thats not what really happened. The MSM is dying for Republicans to take a swing at this one too, so they can spin it the same way to the public.
To what end? Bailey has nothing to gain.
Very suspicious indeed. Smart Republicans will steer clear of this nonsense. Murtha has no credibility, so nothing to lose. We all know Murtha's stunts have been staged and planned by his puppet-master Pelosi.
Remember dims got away with hitting Dukakis with Willie Horton and then blaming Republicans for being racists.
"Neither injury required evacuation."
Check my tagline ;)
I think this is the Left pre-empting the Swiftboat attacks against Kerry again in 08, and getting revenge for 04. They can't discredit the Swifties, but if we bite on this one and it blows up in our face, the Swifties will be marginalized in 08.
"To what end? Bailey has nothing to gain."
Perhaps Bailey is merely a patriot. There was a time when Dems were patriots.
Don Bailey's military service:
"After college he entered the US Army, serving with the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions in Vietnam. He was awarded Silver Star, three Bronze Stars, two with the Valor device, one for meritorious achievement, Army Commendation Medal, with "V" for Valor, Air Medal, and a second Army Commendation Medal for meritorious service."
Don Bailey's military service:
"After college he entered the US Army, serving with the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions in Vietnam. He was awarded Silver Star, three Bronze Stars, two with the Valor device, one for meritorious achievement, Army Commendation Medal, with "V" for Valor, Air Medal, and a second Army Commendation Medal for meritorious service."
Perhaps it would be telling to print the rest of the biographical information:
After a very contested primary and very close general election, Bailey was elected to the US House from PA-21 in 1978. He won an impressive reelection bid in 1980, despite the general Republican victory that year, garnering about 70% of the vote. Bailey served on the House "Ways and Means" Committee.
In 1982, after redistricting by the state legislature, Bailey's district was largely merged into the Twelfth Congressional District of Pennsylvania with fellow Democrat John Murtha, who had been serving since 1974. In a strongly fought primary, Bailey lost. Interestingly, when the Republican nominee for the seat withdrew the same year, Bailey was seriously considered as a replacement; he came in a very strong second at the Republican nominating convention held that year. This underscores that he was viewed as a conservative Democrat.
In 1984, Bailey, after yet another contested primary, became the Democratic nominee for Pennsylvania Auditor General that year; he handily won the General Election; he was the only Democratic nominee to win statewide that year. During his tenure as Auditor General, Bailey established the first work-site child daycare facility in Pennsylvania government, established minimum education standards for state auditors, and generally modernized auditing procedures.
Despite Bailey's electoral success in 1984, he lost a bitter primary battle with then Congressman Bob Edgar (D, PA-7) for the US Senate seat in 1986. In a close race in 1988, he lost his reelection bid for Auditor General to Barbara Hafer (her first statewide run).
Bailey ran for the Auditor General position again in 1992, and lost the Democratic primary. He also lost the Democratic gubernatorial primary to Ivan Itkin in 1998.
Hmmm.. lost an election to Murtha, was proposed as a Republican candidate.. Can we say "unbiased" without choking?
Was he a Dem or not?!
John would not be proud of you....he was in the Marine Corps
John Glenn was a Marine.
Which is why he is not remembered as an Air Force Colonel.
Muthra's not fit to spit shine Glenn's flight boots.
Yeah.. like Zell Miller is a democrat.
IIRC it was none other than our favorite loon AlGore who dredged up old Willie in the RAT primaries.
Maybe the party left him like Yell. Are you really born again?...You seem to be "Swift boating" Mr Bailey's military service.
Are ya trying to say the libs tried to set us up???
Gee .. why am I not surprised
I have posted on a few threads that I think we should stay far away from this story. It worked, attacking Kerry's record, because he was so public with his anti-war rhetoric, he is unlikable and overbearing and he was running for the presidency, so the stakes were higher.
We have nothing to gain by attacking Murtha, imo. And that a trap might have been set wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I'd love to know what the book Stolen Valor has to say about Murtha. Their research was excellent about people who got medals who didn't deserve them.
It's not neccessary, anyway. Murtha's arguments are not winning. Defeat the idea, ignore the person.
I thought the story smelled when I first read about it
Ditto. And even if there is truth behind it, it's political suicide for us to pursue this. Murtha is an older man and isn't running for higher office and we should just leave him alone.
He's making his legacy by giving the jihadists hope and soldiers like the guy who stood up to him last week at a public forum does more for our side than anything we could ever do to him, imo.
Try remembering Klintoon appointing John-the brown noser-Glenn to the geezer in space expierment. Gen'l Chuck Yeager gave Glenn the brown noser label years ago and laughed about his hero status for accomplishing the same task a monkey first completed.
All I know is that when I take a good look at Murtha, all my gut instincts tell me, "don't ever let this turkey cover your ass".
Having survived a long time, by listening to the little voices in my head, and gut, I see no reason to change course now.
Well, its SOP for the lefties - spray paint your own car, and slash your own tires and claim that you were attacked by right-wing thugs.
I agree, don't do anything. Just let it sit and stink, we don't have to pick it up now.
As have I. I've been saying we can't afford to go down that road.
Murtha will take care of Murtha.
"Ditto. And even if there is truth behind it, it's political suicide for us to pursue this. Murtha is an older man and isn't running for higher office and we should just leave him alone.
He's making his legacy by giving the jihadists hope and soldiers like the guy who stood up to him last week at a public forum does more for our side than anything we could ever do to him, imo."
Peach, and I'm trying to see your point. I would counter that when you say it's political suicide and then follow with Murtha making his legacy by giving the jihadists hope, I must state I feel it's not just political suicide at risk here. We're talking about our military's suicide more at risk precisely by your point about giving the jihadists hope.
That said, are you advocating that the need for 'republicans' to remain silent is greater than the need to protect our troops? Honest question. No sarcasm. If the answer is yes...why? I ask, because this takes me right back to the 'silent majority' that did as much damage if not more, to our troops, than the anti-war left in the 60's. I know that if you've got a point, it's a pretty good one, I just don't get it in this situation.
Words of Wisdom from 2 fellow Vets
usmcobra and river rat
I can understand someone who has never served being uncomfortable with calling someone's service into question. I have those inclinations as well. But when numerous vets that I admire and respect do so, I know that it is the right thing to do.
Freema was responding to Peach in post 41.
I know -- I was pinging her as someone I respect and trust! :o) And because I agree with her. ;o)
You're right. They do.
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text:
Skip to comments.OPEN THE FLOODGATES: Pedophiles Arguing Their Sexual Orientation is No Different than Homosexuals
Posted on 07/23/2013 8:33:00 PM PDT by ReformationFan
Using the same tactics used by "gay" rights activists, pedophiles have begun to seek similar status arguing their desire for children is a sexual orientation no different than heterosexual or homosexual.
(Excerpt) Read more at clashdaily.com ...
When we argued that this kind of thing would happen, they said we were crazy. What went wrong?
May these sick POS have their peckers chopped off!
Yep. Here we go. People a hell of a lot smarter than me predicted this...
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I agree, let them all have free legal status.
I knew this would be next. And why not? Just call it your orientation and you're beyond questioning.
I would argue that surgical mutilation of young boys and girls (transgenders) is more grotesque — and we've already crossed that bridge. Removing legal barriers that currently block older men from molesting young children would seem quite easy now.
And the people into necrophilia, bestiality, orgies - any and every perversion you can think of (and probably several none of us would come up with) are lining up for their "rights" to express their preferences.
It isn't!
They're all a bunch of child molesting whack-jobs. The fags just prefer boys.
(gotta admit he's funny)
The entire article is here:
Northern Colorado Gazette
Everyone should read the whole thing. It's quite skin crawling.
These creeps have been doing this for years - NAMBLA was fodder for South Park like a decade ago. Moody's buying, and there's a discrete limiting principle - sex btwn adults is a lot different than sex btwn an adult and a minor, regardless of sexes involved.
You wouldn't want a gay man put in charge of a bunch of older looking teenage boys, but that's not bc he's necessarily a pedophile, it's for the same reason that you wouldn't want a straight man chaperoning a high school cheerleading squad by himself.
We saw this from a long ways back. Once the homos became "accepted" and "cool" and "protected" the pedos would be right behind.
I must admit that at first I didn't agree with that prediction, but as things progressed, I very quickly saw that it was going to go that way.
And others said we were just being paranoid, or too uptight, or too whatever.
And yet here we are.
I see it. I saw it coming! And yet I can't freakin' believe it!
Stop the world! I want to get off now!
These creeps have been doing this for years - NAMBLA was fodder for South Park like a decade ago. Moody's buying, and there's a discrete limiting principle - sex btwn adults is a lot different than sex btwn an adult and a minor, regardless of sexes involved.
You wouldn't want a gay man put in charge of a bunch of older looking teenage boys, but that's not bc he's necessarily a pedophile, it's for the same reason that you wouldn't want a straight man chaperoning a high school cheerleading squad by himself.
This will be a huge battle among libertarians, it is an internal fight that they have not firmed up on yet.
See excerpt from Time magazine below, from 2008
"Case in point: last month's child-porn-gate.
The fracas started with Mary J. Ruwart, the candidate with perhaps the deepest, purest libertarian roots (her rejection of government is so complete that some party moderates have begun warning of the anarchical dangers of "Ruwarchy"). In April, a rival called her out for her thoughts in a 1999 book called Short Answers to the Tough Questions. "Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally," Ruwart wrote. "When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will."
Ruwart's is a classic libertarian take a defense of free will (even for "child performers") and an attack on government prohibitions of any kind. It's also political poison. As libertarian blogger Steve Newton put it, Ruwart and her allies run the risk of turning the party into "the poster child for NAMBLA and the aluminum hat brigade."
The party's executive director, Shane Cory, saw the danger as well, and rushed out a press release titled, "Libertarians call for increased communication to combat child pornography." Cory was attacked by hardliners who saw the release as an endorsement of increased federal prosecuting power. The party refused to vote on a resolution asking states to strongly enforce existing child porn laws. Cory resigned in protest, depriving a party in the midst of what may be its most promising election season of one of its most able organizers and fund raisers. But for many libertarian faithful, adherence to the most rigid of principles always trumps practical considerations about how those principles might be more broadly observed.
That rigidity has long been libertarianism's greatest asset. If the Democratic and Republican parties have any ideology, it's an ideology of power their policies shift and twist in the wind according to what they think will appeal to the biggest slice of the electorate. Libertarians have no power, but they have consistency and principle."
They certainly know the formula and if it worked once then it will probably work again and again and again.
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Please click the link I posted above and read the whole article. This is as serious as a heart attack. When I first started to notice and read up on the homosexual agenda in the late 80s, I soon realized that they were after the children, and normalization of pedophilia would be next. And unfortunately, I was right.
Anyone wanting on/off any of my pinglist, please freepmail me.
As in open season? No bag limit?
There are both moral and biological imperatives demanding the protection of our young. We are wishing away the moral strictures against pedophilia but the biological results of a lack of protection are ugly and often fatal. We have that "Kill the twisted freak," response for a reason. The end product of the pedophile is a sad, damaged creature, often incapable of themselves being a parent. It takes amazing strength for a child to overcome perversion.
Yes, the RINOs in the Pub party should hurry up and broaden the tent to include this bunch, otherwise the Republicans will never win another election and we can never have our conservative American values again.
Very well put and absolutely true. Thanks.
You know it's only a matter of time before the RINOs will start putting that argument forward.
We all knew this was coming.
@ Post 23 -
I know it full well, and it keeps me up nights.
Is this another example of what I kept being told was a slippery slope "fallacy"?
Buy more ammo!!
Of course. Homos don't get dibs on the "born that way" BS.
I wonder if Julian Castro will add criticism of paedophilia to his list of verboten speech.
Well, considering that the vast majority of child molestations are adult male on young male, (at least as far as I have seen in all forms of information released to the public) who could possibly be surprised by this?
The APA, AMA and the left are wholly culpable for this travesty. Then there's the press, who constantly hide the facts. They call it child molestation, even though it's homosexual rape of a minor.
Remember when the left pretended to be scared to death of a Christian "theocracy" in the heyday of the Moral Majority? And now military advisors are openly calling for the persecution of Christians, and Christians in the military are already being forced to suppress their beliefs or face discipline? There were a few people, back in those days, who saw exactly where the left intended to head, but people on the left and on the right laughed those people out of public life, ridiculed them, made a mockery of their predictions, The right was too stupid to see, the left was using Alinsky tactics to discredit the few who could see it coming and called it like it was.
Gods Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorwho is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know Gods righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
The fags got their foot in the door with scouting, now they want to make it legal to give them anal probes.
The "homos" learn their behavior from child abuse-—the ancient cultures were homosexual and built on pederasty and segregation from women. Recreational sex was always with the same sex-—for, like with the Samurai and today's Afghanis, it is learned behavior/worldview. The Catholic priests who were molesting boys stated they were molested as boys. The compulsion and attraction is created/embedded with fixation in Latency-—prior to maturity and appreciation/love for the "other". It is narcissism/idolatry/immaturity/immorality.
The perversion of children/emotional/physical damage which interferes with natural sexual identity formation-—will warp a child like muslim children are:
Any person who elevates homosexual behavior is elevating child abuse. Homosexuality has always been about the boys.
This still doesn't change 2 facts that these poor excuses for human beings wont be able to deny and get around in the court of law:
1. Age of consent in 16, 17 or 18, depending on the state.
2. No means no. Whether a child or adults says no, no means no and that's rape.
God wants children protected by those who care for them most and obviously that is the State. When parents speak out against homosexuals and pedophiles having access to their children, those parents are being hateful and closeminded, and therefore unfit to be parents. Their children should be removed from the home if the parents won't comply. Can't happen in the USA? I wouldn't take any bets. Look how far down the rabbit hole we so-called Patriots have let these minions of Evil take us already.
freaks run the world these days
well, they're right... there is no difference
both are deviant behaviors normally shunned by civilized society
According to liberal religious types, Jesus said to love everyone, who are we to judge?
Dispicable perversion of Christ and His freedom!
Ten years, high school kids will be mindlessly saying, "Love is love" and when you protest any sort of rejection you will be asked, "Whaddya wanna go back to the 1950s?"
Here we go..." We were BORN that way, so it's normal and right." Nothing can be 'wrong' now- except calling something wrong. Evil is running rampant. When the pendulum swings back it will be UGLY.
Doesn't Dan Savage agree with this? I recall his saying that we should all learn to recognize that there are "good pedophiles" or something like that.
Who could have seen this coming?
I'm not going to make a blanket statement, but this stuff isn't being taught to our K-12th grade kids for nothing...
Perhaps the rank and file doesn't get what is taking place.
The activists sure do. For many, this has been a NAMBLA moment since move one.
"Whaddya wanna go back to the 1950s?"
Sounds pretty good to me with the way things are going presently.
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