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Skip to comments.Biden: 'My Religion Defines My Life;' Pope: 'There Is a Grave & Clear Oblig to Oppose' Leg Abortion
Posted on 10/13/2012 7:42:18 AM PDT by NYer
Vice President Joe Biden gestures during his debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., C with Rep. Paul Ryan, the Republican vice presidential candidate. (AP Photo/Rick Wilking)
(CNSNews.com) - Vice President Joe Biden said in Thursday nights vice presidential debate that life begins at conception, that he accepts the Catholic Churchs position on abortion, and that he believes abortion must be legal.
The Catholic Church's teaching is not only that abortion is always wrong, but also that Catholics in public office have a grave duty to oppose legalizing it while speaking out clearly against it.
The position Biden took on abortion before an audience of many millions in this nationally televised debate was in direct defiance of an ancient moral teaching of the church that has been emphatically restated by the current pope and his immediate predecessor.
Before explaining why he wants aborting unborn children to be legal, Biden told the nation that he had been a practicing Catholic his whole life and that his social views had been formed by the churchs teachings about taking care of those who cant take care of themselves.
Vice President Joe Biden making a point at the Oct. 11, 2012, vice presidential debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)My religion defines who I am, and I have been a practicing Catholic my whole life, Biden said. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who cant take care of themselves, people who need help.
With regard to abortion, he said, I accept my churchs position on abortion as a, what we call de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception. Thats the churchs judgment. I accept it in my personal life. But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christian and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman.
I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that, women, that they cant control their body, said Biden. It is a decision between them and their doctor, in my view, and the Supreme Court. I am not going to interfere with that.
The actual position of the Catholic Church is that any law legalizing the killing of an unborn child is an unjust law that violates the natural law and is, therefore, no law at all. Vice President Bidens church teaches that it is not acceptable even to obey such laws let alone support them as part of a political campaign.
"Laws which authorize and promote abortion and euthanasia are therefore radically opposed not only to the good of the individual but also to the common good; as such they are completely lacking in authentic juridical validity." Pope John Paul II wrote in his 1995 encyclical letter, Evangelium Vitae.
Vice President Joe Biden at the Oct. 11, 2012, vice presidential debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)
"Disregard for the right to life, precisely because it leads to the killing of the person whom society exists to serve, is what most directly conflicts with the possibility of achieving the common good," the pope said. "Consequently, a civil law authorizing abortion or euthanasia ceases by that very fact to be a true, morally binding civil law.
"Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize," said the pope. "There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection."
"In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law, or vote for it,'" declared the pope.
In 2002, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a "Doctrinal Note on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life." The note, approved and published by Pope John Paul II, reiterated that Catholic lawmakers have a "grave and clear obligation" to oppose legalized abortion and other attacks on the right to life. Indeed, here the church said it was "impossible" for a Catholic to promote such laws.
At the same time, legislative proposals are put forward which, heedless of the consequences for the existence and future of human beings with regard to the formation of culture and social behaviour, attack the very inviolability of human life," said this statement of Catholic teaching.
"Catholics, in this difficult situation, have the right and the duty to recall society to a deeper understanding of human life and to the responsibility of everyone in this regard," Cardinal Ratzinger wrote. "John Paul II, continuing the constant teaching of the Church, has reiterated many times that those who are directly involved in lawmaking bodies have a «grave and clear obligation to oppose» any law that attacks human life. For them, as for every Catholic, it is impossible to promote such laws or to vote for them."
Cardinal Ratzinger also said in this official Vatican statement that Catholics have a similar inalterable duty to defend the rights of human embryos and the institution of marriage.
When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility," said the doctrinal note. "In the face of fundamental and inalienable ethical demands,Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning abortion and euthanasia (not to be confused with the decision to forgo extraordinary treatments, which is morally legitimate). Such laws must defend the basic right to life from conception to natural death.In the same way, it is necessary to recall the duty to respect and protect the rights of the human embryo.
"Analogously," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger, "the family needs to be safeguarded and promoted, based on monogamous marriage between a man and a woman, and protected in its unity and stability in the face of modern laws on divorce: in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on the same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such.
Martha Raddatz of ABC News moderated the vice presidential debate. (AP Photo/Michael Reynolds)Biden's explanation of why he is pro-abortion came in response to a question from the debate moderator, Martha Raddatz of ABC News, who specifically made an issue of the fact that both Biden and Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan are Catholics.
Raddatz then phrased her question on abortion as if the position these candidates took on the question of whether it ought to be legal to take the life of an unborn child was essentially a denominational and emotional matter, rather than one of rationally applying the immutable natural law--which is expressly referenced in the non-denominational Declaration of Independence signed by the Founding Fathers of this nation--to the question of whether an unborn has the same inalienable right to life as a born child.
"This debate is indeed historic," said Raddatz. "We have two Catholic candidates, first time, on a stage such as this. And I would like to ask you both to tell me what role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion. Please talk about how you came to that decision. Talk about how your religion played a part in that? And please, this is such an emotional issue for so many people in this country, please talk personally about this if you could?"
So, let's make sure we have this straight: Biden believes that abortion kills a beating heart — yet he wants it to be legal. Which begs the question: what other forms of murder does Biden want to legalize?
I suppose that's short for "legalized abortion", but with Clueless Joe....
Still practicing?
Well, obviously he's not doing it right.
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of a innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
EV = John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life)
A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law that contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals (CPL 4).
CPL = Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Doctrinal Notes on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life
That's like saying "I believe that stealing is wrong, but if you want to steal, go ahead and do so. Who am I to impose my values on you?"
No wonder this country is in such a mess.
So the way you care for them, Joe, is kill them? A mother can care for herself, a baby can't.
Therefore, Biden is a hypocrite
Do you have a larger point?
Then why does he politely look away when his pro-abort colleagues promote abortion, even "late-term" abortion ("late-term" murder).
Why does he turn away from his boss's own pro-abort beliefs, in the land where babies are mistakes?
well said. I find myself shaking my head in a negative way at more and more things. I'm either getting a nervous tic or I am getting to be more like my parents the older I get.
any person who publically advocates for such evil should be immediately expelled from their church!
Crazy Joe is just another good little soldier in the Democrat's WAR ON BABIES.
The guy dropping the gas into the showers at the death camps was personally opposed to killing Jews. That "I'm personally opposed to this" defense didn't cut it at the war crimes trials. They still were hung.
My point regarding biden and other politicians who claim to be practicing Catholics and weild Latin around as if it's part of their every day parsing, is so large that all I can do is Yak
I can say this:
When anyone, Catholic, non Catholic, atheist or anything else claims that abortion is a complicated matter they are insane.
Any second grade child can tell you, as it is natural law, that going in, under any pretense, and killing a baby, no matter how old- one day or nine months- inside his or her mother's womb, is murder.
It is not between a mother and a doctor.
The AMA is a pro choice organization. ANY practicing Catholic (politician or otherwise) is aware of this.
ANY parent (that means the dopey father from a one night stand) can tell you that a doctor who proposes killing an innocent child while in the- before the year 1973 in the USA- safest place known to man, is insane.
Joe Biden and his cohorts could call themselves Non-Practicing Catholics.
I have such a larger point than this, so I choose "blecch!". But thank you for asking. I didn't want NYer to think I was Blecching anyone but Joe Biden.
Keep practising, Joe. Some people take longer to get it right. However, this is NOT Advanced Differential Equations, Einstein's Theory of Relativity or Anglo-Saxon poetry.
Simple question, Joe: "Is it right that 55 million lives have had holes drilled in their skulls and the brain sucked out?". Yes or No
Either life begins at conception for everyone or it does not for anyone. You cannot believe that only for Catholic babies does life begin at conception and that, well, for others it is whatever they believe.
Very nice
One could have hoped that Ryan had used Biden's blathering to actually call him what he is - a CINO
But, Plugs would have probably begun to sing Ave Maria
They ARE expelled from their Church. The Pope says it and he is quoted in this thread.
Joe Biden cannot receive Communion without incurring more and more grave sin. He knows this, he learned it in 2nd grade during Communion prep class. This doesn't change - it hasn't in two thousand (2000) years and it's not going to change now, no matter how many president, doctors and Supreme Court Justices say it has changed.
The difference we Americans have is that when we are banned from something legally,, we have police to enforce it. In the Chuch ew Have God to answer to. No amount of anything a bishop could do, if it were a democratic organization, can not trump what God does on the big Day.
Biden knows this and so do all Catholics.
The kids with whom I was watchin g the debate, were so confused at Ryan's non confrontational manner on this.
That's easy, though. The debate is not the time and place for it.
"Ave Maria". Yep.
I know. Hate to be a Polyanna, but Ryan did his job, which was to not screw anything up.
My handicap has him way above Biden, a seasoned smarmy politician who could have minced him on the abortion question, but couldn't, as Ryan didn't bite.
Half, if not more, Catholics do not understand this problem. They think the way Biden does. Ryan knows it.
Correction: The Catholic Church's teaching is not only that direct abortion is always wrong,
This wasthe only part of the debate where I was disappointed with Ryan. The only thing that I can offer is that perhaps he was tired by then because it was so near to the end of the debate. I have heard Ryan proclaim the rights of the unborn much more vigorously on ohr occasions. I figure that he was worn down by Joe's antics by then and eager to get to his closing statement, which was very strong.
He just can't champion the unborn in that forum. And, as Mark Twain put it, "Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I think all Ryan could do was get in and out of there without making a mess. He did a great job in that respect.
And Biden is an idiot.
Would not have been Presidential. However, he DID handle it and brilliantly...."Mr. Vice President - I know you're under duress......"
I was always galled by Ted Kennedy getting a full Catholic funeral despite being a staunch supporter of abortion and a moral reprobate. I think the Church would have been better not to give him a funeral to publicly demonstrate his self chosen excommunication.
I heard some news person commenting on the word "duress" and said he should have chosen another word. I don't remember the reason they gave.
In 1984, Mario Cuomo pioneered the argument that one may be personally opposed to abortion while supporting abortion rights.
Ever since, this convenient locution has become a staple for countless Democratic politicians, particularly Catholic ones. It is Vice President Joe Bidens view and was Senator John Kerrys stance when he ran for president in 2004.
Cuomos argument was a mess. For instance, in order to buttress his argument, he touted the (alleged) refusal of American Catholic bishops to forcefully denounce slavery. The bishops werent hypocrites; they were realists, Cuomo explained. They offered a measured attempt to balance moral truths against political realities.
So, ultimately, we have Mario Cuomo to thank, in part, for the rationale many catholics use when they vote for the democrats.
And Biden is an idiot.
You are 100% right!
"The actual position of the Catholic Church is that any law legalizing the killing of an unborn child is an unjust law that violates the natural law and is, therefore, no law at all. Vice President Bidens church teaches that it is not acceptable even to obey such laws let alone support them as part of a political campaign."
But then if the law did not legalize abortion who commits the crime and what should be the penalty?
"Leg Abortion....?"
OK, here's a question on ethics for all of us:
We all know that Biden has a history of saying very unwise things, that he seems not to be able to remember the official line of the Administration, and that there are YouTube videos showing him speaking and acting in a way that makes him appear to be drunk. We also know that he has had brain surgery.
After that debate the other night, my clinical spidey-sense started tingling. Inappropriate affect—which is to say, the display of bizarre emotional responses—is one of the first symptoms of dementia. As I saw Biden laughing at the prospect of a nuclear Iran blowing Israel off the map, I wondered if we were seeing dementia. I understand that he's never been a bright man and that he was a sell-out, a lib, and a hypocrite long before he had any brain problems, but this is getting worse. He's nuts.
Last night the John Batchelor show had a professor of psychiatry from Stanford who said much the same thing. He cited Biden's long history of what he called "inadequate reality testing" (self-deception) and inappropriate emotional displays, and he too concluded that something organic is going on with Biden.
So the question is: to what extent do we think a man with early dementia and some kind of organic brain damage is really responsible for his words and decisions? If he speaks and behaves in a hypocritical fashion about his Catholic faith, incurring strong words from Catholic bishops, I'm kind of starting to wonder if he's just too brain-damaged to know what he's doing.
What is the sense of the forum on this?
One additional "we also know" - that Obama and Biden are protected by the mainstream media and they can do no wrong.
Biden is one heartbeat away from becoming president. I truly believe that those who tuned into the VP debate may well have reflected on that notion. Those who missed it, have seen enough extracts on various news programs to draw the same conclusion. We need to have faith in the American people. We're not fools and the days when the media could pull the wool over our eyes, are long gone. Two more debates and then it's on to victory!
Gretchen Carlson offered some insight into this behavior on the Friday edition of Fox & Friends. Like Paul Ryan, she is also a midwesterner. She said that his behavior is typical of how midwesterners are raised - to show politeness.
I have heard Ryan proclaim the rights of the unborn much more vigorously on ohr occasions.
Recall that between Biden and Martha Raddatz, he was constantly interrupted. Biden's mannerisms were so distracting that many viewers missed some very important points made by Ryan. From the transcript:
RYAN: And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training. And Social Security? If we don't shore up Social Security, when we run out of the IOUs, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25 percent across-the-board benefit cut kicks in on current seniors in the middle of their retirement. We're going to stop that from happening.
I hope Romney has an opportunity to drive those points home in one of the upcoming debates.
Were there no law, then the crime would be murder.
Too bad that in the debate— Ryan was not able to call Biden out on his bogus pro-abort version of Catholicism. Ryan would have blown the election if he had and its a shame. Such is political discourse today
Henry I. Miller, a physician, and the Robert Wesson Fellow in Scientific Philosophy and Public Policy at Stanford Universitys Hoover Institution,ASKS:
Dont voters have a right to know whether Biden is ill or merely unlikeable, impulsive and prone to deceitfulness?
Freeper ottbmare raised the same question. See post #37.
I agree with you.
Oh, Mario, with whom I am well acquainted, is as scandalous and heretical as any of these dopey non practicing Catholic politicians is much at fault, but by now at least people should be thinking about things, considering whether a politician is the one to follow or th Catechism.
I am sure you do this.
Just saying.
I agree but Ryan did a good job in showing they he is as different from Biden as day is to night. Even down to his manner; he was professional and Biden like a child.
They both claimed their beliefs define them; yet they are both Catholic. Biden looked like the useful fool he is. That would be frowned upon at 19 but not for a man who is 69 - it's a disgrace.
You must have missed my other post, A day of judgment for liberal bishops. The majority of catholics I know (and probably you, as well) are ignorant of their faith. Moreover, they are 'liberated' and will not be dictated to by the Catholic Church. Yet, they consider themselves to be "practicing" catholics and attend mass on Sundays. Then there are the A & P catholics who show up at church on Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Easter and Christmas. They too consider themselves "catholic". We consider them to be "cultural" catholics who were born into a catholic family and were baptized as infants. After First Communion, they were on their own (especially after the bishops left the decision to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation, up to the individual.
I am sure you do this.
When I joined my current parish 8+ years ago, I was asked to develop a religious education program and serve as its director. This was intended for the children but, in the process, I discovered something quite interesting about the parents. They too, were ignorant of their faith. I have since been replaced by a liberalized nun and been asked to take over the parish bulletin. As we enter the Year of Faith, I am using the bulletin to educate the parents. Each week, I include an article of faith, keeping it as simple as possible.
BTW, while serving as Director for Religious Education, one parent asked to enroll her 13 y/o daughter in the program. After learning that the child had been baptized, received her First Communion before the Sacrament of Reconciliation (never received - the Albany Diocese is ultra liberal). The dilemma - how to compensate for so much lost time. Having personally been educated decades ago through the Baltimore Catechism, I picked up two copies and worked one on one with her throughout the year. By May, she was ready to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Ironically, in the process, another mother saw the BC on a pew, read through a few pages and was astounded at how much she did not know about her faith! Since then, it has been a personal mission to use whatever means available to educate these parents in their faith since they are the primary educators of their children.
As an aside, I maintain a "catholic ping list" for those interested in following important news stories. I noticed that you are not on that list. Please let me know if you would like to be added. I just posted an article on the Catholic Swing Vote from the Pew Forum and pinged the list. You might find these articles informative and we would value your input, too.
Lastly, I am a member of the parish of St. Ann. Love your freeper name!
You have inspo=ired me re writing for the bulletin. Recently picked up the Magnificat Year of Faith Companion - they're going fast.
Having taught English in a Cath. Sch. I can tell you that the parents are the ones who need to be educated. The kids are very accepting of truth- not to be confused with malleability and brainwashing.
You read my name correctly, by the way.
Was considering getting onto the ping list just today. Go ahead and include me please.
I heard Gretchen say that, and she's absolutely right. All in all, I thought Ryan comported himself quite well. I would have liked to have slapped Biden and Raddutz silly, however, but I wasn't raise to do that either.
Correct, and once again the responsibility for this lies squarely at the feet of the American episcopate who for 40+ years stood silent while the left took over the church by replacing traditional catholic social teaching with the Marxist theory of "social justice". This is what allows CINOs to comfort themselves into believing they are still "good Catholics".
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Insider's Guide to the Gorge
Where to Hike in the Gorge
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The Northwest Face Spa estheticians at the Woodmark would like to share some fall and winter skin care tips to help keep your skin radiant this holiday season. Cold and dry winters can be brutal on your skin. To battle uncomfortable dryness of the skin on your face, hands, and feet, enjoy these simple tips to keep you glowing through the frigid months of winter.
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- Omega-3 fatty acids, like flaxseed oil and salmon keep skin soft and plump.
- Antioxidants keep your skin protected from free radical damage, stimulate collagen production, and provide radiance. Vitamins C and E are proven to help fight the signs of aging. Skinmedica's C+E Complex is an excellent source of these antioxidants.
- Utilize sun protection products at all times. Just because the sun is not out, it can still do damage. Stay protected with an SPF 30 on your face and hands.
- Lastly and most importantly, seek an esthetician to troubleshoot your current regime and give you advice on skin care products you should be using.
As a medical spa in Kirkland, Washington, Northwest Face Spa offers several spa treatments that are tailored to address the needs of your skin. A skin analysis is the perfect starting point in creating an accurate and effective comprehensive plan that generates measurable results. Schedule a skin analysis with a Care Coordinator that will examine your complexion and create a skin regimen customized for you. Northwest Face Spa utilizes the VISIA™ system. VISIA™ is a program that uses multi-spectral imaging and analysis to provide a clear, multi-dimensional portrait of the individual aspects of your complexion that contribute to your overall appearance. From measuring texture and wrinkles to identifying sun damage, VISIA™ provides the most comprehensive means available for identifying your complexion's health. Call 425.576.1700 to schedule your skin analysis.
Getting ready for a holiday party or want to look stunning when you ring in the New Year? Make an appointment for a Northwest Face Spa facial to prepare and pamper. This Kirkland medispa also has all of your favorite product lines available for purchase. Spa treatments and skin products make fantastic holiday gifts. Tis the season for fabulous skin!


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|Posted by peter amminger on January 16, 2004 at 21:14:58:
Hello- We have a single handle faucet at the kitchen sink whose handle has broken. I'd like to find a replacement handle but apparently the company no longer is in business. Here's the information I have: The faucet is white in color. The handle says Savil on the top cover. Under the cover on the handle it says Geyser Leader and Savil S.P.A 87; The handle mounts on a square post sticking off the 'ballvalve' that is similar in size and appearance to a 1/4 inch socket drive post but is slighty bigger. The handle is held on the post by a screw entering the post's top center. Any help/suggestions to find a suitable replacement handle would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Peter
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Your young lady is destined for a future as a racing fanatic with parents like you! Drivers like Gray Gaulding are prime examples of the idea that it's never too early to start training. Let your young NASCAR fan show off some support for her favorite driver with this Gray Gaulding tee from Chase Authentics. It features printed Gaulding graphics and his #20 at the front left and an image of Gaulding with his car on the back for a spirited show of racing pride!
- Lightweight ribbed T-shirt
- Officially licensed NASCAR product
- Rib-knit collar
- Screen print graphics
- Short sleeve
- Screen print graphics
- Imported
- Brand: Chase Authentics
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Additional print methods available in stores.
Contact your local store to schedule an appointment.
Include a separate card in your invitation suite that shares details of your event - information about your reception, accommodations, directions, and more. These types of cards do not require envelopes; simply include them with your invitation.
Shown on cream smooth paper, which has a smooth finish and is soft to the touch. 130# cover weight paper with 30% post consumer recycled content.


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Spoiler!okay, fighting time
So So
Spoiler!okay, fighting time
Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off
Goddamit. I feel like im suppose to hate Erza because shes suppose to be the typical weak female character who needs to be saved by a male. But then she just keeps getting more and more awesome! Ugh love it and frustrated by it every time lol
Nice to see tartaros on the defensive, Kyouka better get her ass kicked and all her equipment destoryed, Im thinking without her they cannot keep resurrecting. Her special power might be the demon particals.
And im glad to see Mira back up again, hope these new demon particals gave her an upgrade or another demon form to use!
Very cool chap
A pie in the sky?


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By Meg Sullivan
PBN Staff Writer
PROVIDENCE – The Governor's Workforce Board was awarded a total of $810,000 to 48 Rhode Island businesses to help provide training for their workers.
The grants, announced Thursday afternoon, will result in the training of nearly 2,700 employees across the state.
Of the 48 grant recipients, a third of the companies agreed to subsidize work experience for young adults and, consequently, qualified themselves for bonus funding.
The Workforce Board grants ranged in size from $5,000 to $40,000, and 17 Providence businesses were awarded funds.
Neighborhood Health Plan of Rhode Island receiving the largest grant, of $40,000, to train 260 employees. Other recipients included: Family Service of Rhode Island, GTECH Corp., Bank Newport, Senesco Marine and AAA Southern New England.
How about some $$$$ to train those individuals WHO NEED JOBS BUT DO NOT POSSES THE SKILLS REQUIRED TO EVEN BE ABLE TO APPLY IN THE FIRST PLACE??
Monday, February 20
Thursday, February 23
Yesterday at 12:21 PM


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Fergalicious Energy Pump
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Item # 251026
Get revved up for a peep toe pump from Fergalicious. The Energy will give your look extra volume with its platform and flirty ruffle detailing.
- Faux suede upper
- Ruffle detailing on round peep toe
- 1¼" partially hidden platform, 4½" covered heel
- Synthetic sole
- Imported
- View more Women's Fergalicious Shoes
By: mmskleen
Location: Chicago
May 17, 2013
"After ACL surgery 5 years ago, MD advised me NOT to wear heels >3 inches high. For a special event with my DIVA CREW (Pumps & Pearls), I ordered these shoes. Very high....... but very comfortable"
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So comfy!
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Great shoe
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Location: New Jersey
April 18, 2013
Great Shoes!
"I absolutely LOVE these shoes! I ordered a half-size smaller than my regular size, and they fit perfectly. The ruffle on the front is a cute touch. Definitely a good deal; you'll get your money's worth."
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text: URMC / Medicine / Gastroenterology & Hepatology The Region's Most Advanced GI and Hepatology Care The Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology at the University of Rochester Medical Center (URMC) provides leading edge care to people with disorders of the digestive system, liver, pancreas and the biliary tree. We combine the most advanced subspecialty expertise with cutting edge technology and an emphasis on access and quality. We offer state-of-the-art services, provided by nationally known physicians with the highest levels of training and the most experience in the region. We offer the only gastroenterologists in the region with additional fellowship training in advanced therapeutic endoscopy and liver transplantation. As an academic center, we are involved with basic and clinical research in digestive and liver disease to explore more effective treatments and allow our patients access to national clinical trials. Our partnerships with the URMC Department of Surgery and the Wilmot Cancer Center enable us to provide exceptional multidisciplinary care for patients with Gastrointestinal Cancer in an expeditious manner. Our new, state-of-the-art, custom-designed, 10,000 sq. ft. off-site endoscopy center makes general endoscopy services even more convenient and accessible for our patients. All of us at URMC Gastroenterology and Hepatology look forward to providing you with truly outstanding care. Vivek Kaul, M.D. Chief, Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology To make an appointment or for further information, please call us at (585) 275-4711 or fax (585) 276-0101.


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Coffee has a long history of being blamed for many ills — from stunting your growth to claims that it causes heart disease and cancer. But recent research indicates that coffee may not be so bad after all. So which is it — good or bad? The best answer may be that for most people the health benefits outweigh the risks.
Recent studies have generally found no connection between coffee and an increased risk of cancer or heart disease. In fact, most studies find an association between coffee consumption and decreased overall mortality and possibly cardiovascular mortality, although this may not be true in younger people who drink large amounts of coffee.
Why the apparent reversal in the thinking about coffee? Earlier studies didn't always take into account that known high-risk behaviors, such as smoking and physical inactivity, tended to be more common among heavy coffee drinkers at that time.
Studies have shown that coffee may have health benefits, including protecting against Parkinson's disease, type 2 diabetes and liver disease, including liver cancer. It also appears to improve cognitive function and decrease the risk of depression.
However, the research appears to bear out some risks. High consumption of unfiltered coffee (boiled or espresso) has been associated with mild elevations in cholesterol levels. And some studies found that two or more cups of coffee a day can increase the risk of heart disease in people with a specific — and fairly common — genetic mutation that slows the breakdown of caffeine in the body. So, how quickly you metabolize coffee may affect your health risk.
Although coffee may have fewer risks compared with benefits, keep in mind that other beverages, such as milk and some fruit juices, contain nutrients that coffee does not. Also, adding cream and sugar to your coffee adds more fat and calories. Some coffee drinks contain more than 500 calories.
Donald Hensrud, M.D.
Original article: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/coffee-and-health/faq-20058339
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Old Testament Reading
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Genesis 5:32-6:8
After Noah was five hundred years old, Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth. When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose. Then the LORD said, "My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for he is flesh, but his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
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The English Old Testament text is taken from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible.
The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is copyrighted 1946, 1952, 1971, and 1973 by the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. and used by permission.


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John Lennon Yesterday Laceless Oxford
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Item # 259981
Get ready for a shoe that has the look and feel of an oxford, but the ease and convenience of a slip-on. The Yesterday laceless oxford from John Lennon lets you call the shots on whether to use laces or not, leaving you in control of your style and feeling confident.
- Leather upper
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- Hidden dual elastic panels attached to tongue for a secure fit
- Optional laces included
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- Synthetic sole
- Imported
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Click Here to opt-in to receive the Davis Chamber Emails.
Chamber Mission
The mission of the Davis Chamber of Commerce is to advance business prosperity by:
- uniting the business community,
- providing business advocacy, and
- promoting a vibrant economy.
The premier business organization in Davis County, the Davis Chamber of Commerce offers its members an unparalleled opportunity to invest in the community as well as their own future success. Chamber members become part of a strong network of businesses committed to the sustained growth and prosperity of the entire area. In addition, they gain access to an impressive group of businesses offering invaluable expertise and advise, proven experience, and tremendous support. This website is Produced in cooperation with The Economic Development Corporation of Utah.
Traditionally it had been my impression the Chambers primary purpose was serving and supporting for -profit businesses. Once PARC joined the Davis Chamber as a non-profit organization (business), I found we had a place and the Chamber was not only serving for-profit businesses.
I found all Chamber members were integrated together with common interest and goals. This was demonstrated by the various activities and committees the Chamber organized and sponsored, such as Military Affairs, Legislative Affairs, Women in Business, and other committees. They create and organize special forums to exchange information and share with their luncheons, golf tournaments, and annual awards banquet.
The Davis Chamber does a very effective job of enriching the communities and quality of life for all of us and our local communities.
For me, the Davis Chamber has been the forum that I need to develop relationships that expand my leadership.
I am an Introvert by nature and find it difficult to reach out and build relationships with others in most of my work and community forums. The Davis Chamber has given me the opportunity to work with other great leaders in smaller and more personal venues. Through these venues I have been able to get to know these great community leaders at a deeper level. I have walked away from these meetings always having gained insight on how I can be a more effective leader. I have built friendships that have allowed me to contact these leaders at times that I sought insight and perspective. They have freely shared their thoughts with me and helped me see things in a different light.
I will always be thankful to the Chamber for providing this opportunity to connect, learn, expand, and improve myself as a leader and my hospital as a resource to the community.
There are a few basic core elements that make a community home. On that list is certainly a vibrant economy to support business and sustain a viable family income.
The Davis Chamber of Commerce provides a unique opportunity for concerned business leaders to unite behind, advocate for, and promote the prosperity of our community.
We not only work in this community, but we live here and are raising our families here and their future and opportunity depends on the foundation we lay for them.
My experience with the Davis Chamber has helped me understand and see the business fabric of Davis County more clearly. Whether that fabric be private, public, or government – the fabric is dynamic, growing and sustainable.
The unique thing about the business fabric is the people! I've developed personal relationships with chamber members from big to small business, from established to new start-ups, from thriving to struggling. . .
The common thread I've found in this business fabric is:
Normal people with everyday challenges who bring extraordinary insights, solutions, and true friendship to the table.
After Chamber events, I return to work more motivated, more confident, more determined to make a difference with our customers (students of local employers) and our employees.
I thank the great members of the Chamber for making me better.


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Showing 1-48 of 48 items found in History
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Meriwether Lewis is reported to have stayed here. It is home to some of the earliest settlers in Illinois (1782) and was named by the French for a spring located on the beautiful site.
The log house gives a glimpse into local life in the 1800s. While at the park, visit the refurbished caboose and passenger train.
Tucked away in the rolling hills of Germantown is a Civil War Fort. There is a jail, civil war cannons, a stage coach, a livery, log cabins, and much more.
The monument is a tribute to Swiss poet Heinrich Bosshard, who wrote Semparcherlied here in the 1850s.
Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site
Illinois' only United Nations World Heritage Site. This 2,200-acre site preserves the central section of the largest prehistoric Indian city north of Mexico. An Interpretive Center presents a coherent account of this sophisticated prehistoric culture. Climb Monk's Mound, see the film and life-size village. Don't miss annual events that focus on Native American culture.
The original wooden cross was erected in 1850 by a farmer in thanksgiving for his family being spared during a cholera epidemic. Subsequent owners of the property have repaired and replaced it.
Visit an exact replica of a Civil War Fort complete with a jail, one-room home, livery, and log cabins.
Clinton County Historical Museum
This building was the former home of Judge Sidney Breese, who came to Illinois from New York. He studied law here and became Assistant Secretary of the State of Illinois.
Joseph Koch, who along with eight other local miners died in a mine explosion in 1947, is depicted here.
Collinsville Historical Society Museum
Local and world histories are combined in these exhibits.
Colonel Benjamin Stephenson House
This two-story brick home is a wonderful example of Federal-style architecture from 1820. Col. Stephenson, who was a contemporary of Lewis & Clark, moved there in 1809.
Stroll brick-paved St. Louis Street in the Lebanon Antiques District, where you'll find more than 20 antique and specialty shops in this historic town that was founded in 1804, during the time of the Lewis & Clark expedition.
Dr. Poos Home - Heritage House Museum
Built in 1888, this home was occupied by Dr. Robert Poos, a local practitioner and druggist. Dr. Poos was also the staff physician at the Springs Hotel and Bath House, later known as the Okawville Original Springs Hotel.
Edwardsville Children's Museum
The museum focuses on expanding young minds through a variety of educational programs. It is available for birthday parties and field trips.
Visitors are invited to walk through this home, considered to be the oldest Greek Revival-style home in Illinois.
Car enthusiasts are tempted by every make from Model T's to muscle cars. Shop the Antique Mall for Collectibles or attend their monthly sales and auctions.
CITY:Fairmont City
As the world's tallest fountain, the Gateway Geyser Fountain reaches 627 feet in height, and is centered in a pond that holds five million gallons of water.
CITY:East St. Louis
General Dean Suspension Bridge
Located just outside the city of Carlyle, this historic 130-year-old bridge is one of the oldest suspension bridges in the area. The original bridge served as a crossing over the Kaskaskia River.
This memorial in Valley View Cemetery honors Edward Coles, the second governor of Illinois (1822-1826). A former slaveowner from Virginia, Coles became an abolitionist and won the 1822 gubernatorial election as the candidate of anti-slavery forces.
Greater Saint Louis Air and Space Museum
Learn about the history of aviation in the St. Louis area. The Museum is located at the St. Louis Downtown Parks Airport and has Gus Grissom's flight suit, a collection of TWA artifacts, and a 1941 Meyers O.T.W. Bi-plane on exhibit.
Three properties -- Dr. Poos Home & Medical Museum; the Frank Schlosser Home, which includes a turn-of-the-century house, barn, harness shop, and commercial laundry; and the Joseph Schlosser Home -- make up the Museum complex.
The subject of intensive historical interest, the Mansion is probably the oldest brick house in the state of Illinois. It was built in 1810 by Nicholas Jarrot, who was a native Frenchman and landowner in Cahokia.
Katherine Dunham is probably best known as a legendary dancer who propelled the awareness of the cultures of the African Diaspora via her choreography. Her famous dance technique reflects a fusion of many cultures. Miss Dunham was a true renaissance woman. She was an artist, anthropologist, author, activist, manager, movie star, producer, educator, wife, mother, and so much more. The world needs to know about her wonderful life story and there's no better learning environment than the Museum and Centers for Arts and Humanities she created. The museum houses Miss Dunham's outstanding collection of symbolic and functional art, including more than 250 African and Caribbean art objects from more than 50 countries.
CITY:East St. Louis
The Labor & Industry Museum is the only public institution devoted to the history of the labor and industry of Belleville and southwestern Illinois. The centerpiece is Jumbo, a 19th-century steam engine along with coal mining, carpentry, and stove-making exhibits.
Louis Latzer, the founder of the Pet Milk Company, built this homestead for his wife and family in 1901. The home had many modern features of the day, including running water pumped by hand to a holding tank in the attic, a manufactured gas light system, speaking tubes between many of the rooms and one of the first telephones in the community.
Madison County Historical Society Museum & Archives
The 1836 Weir House is filled with an amazing display of artifacts representing local and county history, in addition to a historic research library.
Marissa Academy Museum & Coal Miners Monument
Memorabilia celebrating the city's growth from a coal-mining town to the present makes this a fascinating touchstone of local history.
Marissa Academy Museum and Coal Miners Monument
Memorabilia celebrating the city's growth from a coal mining town to the present makes this an interesting stop.
Built in the 1790s, the house is designed in the French vertical-log style rather than the more familiar horizontal-log style. This is the oldest known residence in Illinois.
CITY:East Carondelet
This traditional one-story French Creole residence, built circa 1790, is considered to be one of the oldest surviving residences in Illinois.
CITY:East Carondelet
The museum focuses on the businesses that helped the city grow, particularly milling.
One of the smallest country chapels in the world was built in Nashville in the late 1980s. Thousands of travelers from all over the globe have stopped to visit this miniature chapel.
CITY:New Athens
National Shrine of Our Lady of the Snows
The Shrine has 200 beautifully landscaped acres of gardens and devotional areas, including the Outdoor Amphitheatre, Shrine Church, Lourdes Grotto, Stations of the Cross, Millennium Spire, the Visitors Center with a restaurant and gift shop, and the Shrine Hotel.
Learn how firemen fought fires throughout history. See all of the antique firefighting memorabilia.
CITY:Granite City
Old Six Mile Museum in the Emmert-Zippel House
This 158-year-old home has displays of historic items including Civil War artifacts, a Native American collection, and 1830s furnishings.
CITY:Granite City
Built in 1830, this is the only stagecoach stop still intact along the 60-mile Kaskaskia-Cahokia trail.
A Lionel train set shares space with a Li'l Abner Dogpatch Band windup toy and British toy soldiers. Antique collectibles, clothing, glassware, a mule deer antler chandelier, and many more unusual items fill the 2,000 sq. ft. "extra room" added onto the house.
There is a large collection of machinery and primitives dating back to the 1800s.
CITY:New Athens
Hundreds of interesting items amassed over a lifetime are housed in this unique gallery that was formally a working farm barn.
This turn-of-the-century Victorian house was ordered through the Sears Roebuck catalog and assembled for only several hundred dollars.
St. Clair County Historical Society Museum
This Victorian adaptation of a Greek Revival home was built in the early 1800s. In addition to period furniture and vintage clothing, artifacts, and quilts, the museum contains an extensive research library and gift shop.
Learn about the history of aviation in the St. Louis area.
The History Museum of Monroe County
Anchored by items gifted by Col. Edd & Violet Kueker, this collection represents the settlement of the West, numerous U.S. wars and early transportation. There is even a display of items from the Stone Age retrieved during a local archaeological dig. Changing displays and Special Exhibits from the Museum collection and "on loan" items provide awesome journeys through the pages of history.
The beautiful house is an example of an 1830s hotel. Charles Dickens once visited there in 1842 while researching a book he wrote on prairies in America.
Built in 1927, Old Chain of Rocks was the fifth bridge to cross the Mississippi River, which shortened the distance between St. Louis, Missouri, and Edwardsville, Illinois by 15 miles.
Washington County Historical Museum
Built in 1871 as a private residence, this building now holds hundreds of artifacts from the country including a display of period wedding dresses.
This 170-foot-tall bottle that resembles a Brook's Catsup Bottle served as a water tower for the catsup manufacturer after being constructed in 1949. A popular roadside attraction, it makes for a great photo op.
An authentic log cabin located in the heart of Glen Carbon, it has the original ceiling rafters and attic floor. The sidewalks are made from a 1912 school building. The Cabin is used for group activities and community events. Tours by appointment.
CITY:Glen Carbon
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By Brendan Conway
Market check: Major stock indexes start Monday's session slightly lower. The price of gold edges down 0.4% to $1,431.50. Crude oil's price also falls, moving to $95.37 recently.
Fund watch: Suppose your favorite stock picker builds an ETF. Suppose it beats the broader stock market resoundingly. (Bear with me.) Suppose further that investors arrive in droves to buy the fund. Finally, suppose the manager believes he has enough money and, under mutual-fund circumstances, would seek to close the fund to new investors. What happens then? It's not entirely clear. The issue was raised by Joel Dickson of Vanguard Group in the most recent Barron's ETF Roundtable, the results of which were published in the magazine over the weekend. As Dickson puts it: "[W]hat's the endgame with an active exchange-traded fund? Let's say you are successful. You need a high-capacity product to even think about doing this. At Vanguard and many other shops, when capacity limits have been reached, you close the fund. What does it mean to close an ETF? We've seen what happens when you cut off share creation — you get a premium and a lot of volatility. That is not well understood by investors. They don't understand how the arbitrage mechanism breaks down. … I think that's an interesting question in actively managed ETFs. How are shareholders served if you are successful — too successful — with the product? … In the traditional mutual fund, even if you close the fund, investors can get their money back at the fund's net asset value. The same is not true in an ETF." So it turns into a closed-end fund? We asked. Answer: "Not quite. The usual ETF arbitrage can take place when shareholders are redeeming. But that's not true on the creation side, so you'll get a premium. Most closed-end funds go to a discount." Read the whole Barron's ETF Roundtable article.
In the news: Lazard Capital Markets, spun out from the rest of Lazard (LAZ) several years back, is considering a sale, Bloomberg News reports.
In case you missed it: Lodestone Natural Resources is liquidating.


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So Painful
Pat Steinberg
May 12 2010 08:20AM
On Twitter today, somebody suggested that we at The FAN 960 should no longer refer to Montreal's Mike Cammalleri by name. Instead we should refer to him as "MC", to which I suggested we take a cue from the 2004 movie The Village and refer to him only as "he we do not speak of".
It's not because we're deathly afraid of Cammalleri or because we're trying to sustain an archaic society within the walls of a forest. Nope. It's because it pisses me, and so many others, off so damn much to see that guy, #13, ripping junk apart in the postseason with the Montreal Canadiens. Yep, that's the same guy who wanted to stay here in Calgary, probably would have signed the same five year deal with Flames as he did with Montreal. And now look.
Is there any guarantee that "he we do not speak of" would have had the exact same success had he been playoff bound with the Flames? Well, no...11 goals in 13 games is pretty damn special. And it's not as if his regular season numbers blow your mind...50 points in 65 games. But, looking deeper at those numbers, there's no quesetion his January knee injury had a massive impact. Before going down, Cammalleri had 26 goals and 48 points in 54 games...using "advanced math", that extrapolates to about 73 points in 82 games. He had just two points, and no goals, in his final nine games of the season, and it certainly isn't out of the question to think much of that was getting back up to speed.
But it's his playoff performance that is drawing the ire of most Flames fans, and for pretty good reason. "How did Sutter let this guy go?" or "Why didn't Sutter do more to keep him?" are frequent and fair questions. Whatever the reasons were for the Flames not to make a big push to resign him look worse and worse every day. I put the whole Cammalleri fiasco in the "bad" category when analyzing the moves of Darryl Sutter...the more I think, the more I wonder if it should belong in the "ugly" category.
He can't play in the NHL postseason? Well, clearly that's been debunked rather loudly. But at the time, nobody knew 11 playoff goals was in the offing for MC when he signed with Montreal on July 1st. So lets go without the knowledge of his unreal 2010 playoffs. It's still a junk argument. No one will argue that Cammalleri did not perform as well as expected or needed in Calgary's first round playoff loss to Chicago last year. He seemed to become less and less effective as the six game series went along. But is it really fair to make that judgement as a GM after one postseason? All kinds of players have had slow postseason starts, in hockey and in other sports. It takes more than one playoff appearance to make a reputation.
Fact of the matter is, at least so it seems, Darryl Sutter didn't see enough value in keeping Cammalleri around, certainly not enough to give him a long term deal. I've heard the argument that dealing for Olli Jokinen spelt the end for Cammalleri. That may be true in the mind of the GM, but I don't buy it as an excuse...they made him an offer, so they could have worked him in. I've also heard that keeping Cammalleri would have meant no Jay Bouwmeester. Is that true? I don't know, money-wise it would have been a challenge, but if you wanted Bouwmeester enough, I think the Flames could have maneuvered to make it happen.
I don't want to get into hypothetical numbers of how the Flames and Darryl Sutter would have made certain things work, as I'm sure many have already done it. Having everything identical from the past offseason AND keeping Cammalleri wasn't going to happen. But regardless of the Olli Jokinen situation, I chalk this one up to a gross misevaluation by the GM...the Flames had a young, offensive talent to help build around. They didn't keep him. And now he's on the brink of helping his team to the Eastern Conference Finals. It's too bad so many Flames fans saw this coming.
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The reason that Cammalleri was let go (keeping Jokinen) was awful but I was never in favor of keeping Cammalleri at the price point he commanded.
I mean the writing was on the wall when Tanguay was traded, we were going to experience a downgrade at left wing. Cammalleri can score and isn't a total sieve but damn, who would feel comfortable having the guy in a difference-making role? Which is what he would have had to do, at $5M on a team with as much money tied up as Calgary.
Ummm...I would have had Cammalleri at $5 million over Jokinen at $5.25 million. Certainly if the math is Cammalleri+Lombardi+(Prust or Vandermeer)+a 1st round draft pick v. Jokinen I know which side any reasonable GM would have come down on at any time.
$5 Million is only $750,000 over Langkow and only $2 million more than Kotalik, Stajan or Hagman. Dude was on a 40 goal pace this year and potted 39 last year. We paid Jarome $7 million for just under 40 goals this year.
I may be using hindsight, but particularly in light of the Flames dearth of scoring, Cammy would have been a nice fit. As a further Mind Experiment, lets trade Phaneuf pre-season for the same trade Darryl made, and signs JBouw, the Flames line up is
Stajan-Iginla-Cammalleri Langkow-Bourque-Hagman Lombardi-Dawes-Moss/Glencross Mayers/Conroy-Nystrom-Moss/Glencross Boyd
JBouw-(Pardy, Vandermeer, other assorted spare part) Regehr-White Gio-Sarich
In what possible universe is that inferior to what we lined up this last season?
OK, in no universe is Cammalleri a better player than Langkow. Seriously, in terms of helping teams win, Cammalleri can't hold Langkow's jock.
I'm not in favor of having Kotalik and Stajan on $3M+ contracts, nor was I ever in favor of having Jokinen at any price point he commanded.
And damn, it feels like I'm beating a barely-breathing horse his but context of icetime is a *paramount* consideration. Could Cammalleri have contributed to outchancing and outscoring the other team's good players? Because at $5M and few other impact forwards, that's a responsibility he would have had to take on.
May 12 2010, 09:39AM
I'm torn on the Cammalleri issue. I wouldn't have paid him what Montreal did, but I think $5/season is arguable. His season in CGY he was about level with Iginla at ES and better on the PP. And he's 27 years old, which is prime age.
The fixation with Cammeleri is mind boggling-who is to say the Flames didn't want to keep him-coming off a lacklustre palyoff performance was he worth 6 million? Bob Gainey lost his job for some of these signings. I like Cammy and I think the Flames did as well-not getting hime doesn't mean they didn't try. Pierre Mcguire had said that Cammy wanted to go to Montreal and they certainly paid him more than others were willing to. How about a different spin-Cammy was signed by the Flames a year earlierfor around $3 million-maybe that was an extremely astute signing. Losing players to free agency happens to every team every year. In the free agency era the cost of overpaying and taking on long term risks
May 12 2010, 11:05AM
You're right - it's entirely possible that Cammalleri was going to flee for free agency anyways and there's little the Flames could have done about it. I think the issue may be the fact that Sutter implicitly denigrated Cammalleri's playoff efforts after he left town, suggesting the Flames weren't interested in his services anyways (based on a 6 game sample, which is foolish).
Also, Cammalleri wasn't signed by the Flames. Sutter traded CGY's first round pick to LAK for him.
May 12 2010, 11:26AM
Also, this is all taking place in the East. Ask JBlow what playing in the East is like.
Aside from Pierre McGuire, Elliotte Friedman has reported (more than once, I believe) that Cammalleri was never going to re-sign with the Flames simply because he was intent on going to the East (though the Canucks had an outside chance of landing him due to Cammalleri's relationship with Mike Gillis).
Maybe it is just me, but boy, do I lack motivation for next season. We are looking at the same old front office, no draft picks, a team with serious cap issues, a lack of talent on both the big club and farm team and on and on...
I agree Patty.
What we had in Cammy was someone who could finally come in and take the pressure off of Iginla. He was the first person to outscore our captain in, what, 10 years? As Iginla grows older and starts to recede more into the 50-60 point category instead of the 80-90 point category, Cammalleri could have been the new face of the franchise. It was incredibly short sighted of Darryl Sutter to not re-negotiate with someone who stated emphatically that he was interested in staying with Calgary.
Darryl's argument during the "town hall meeting" was that he didn't choose Jokinen over Cammy, he chose Bouwmeester over Cammy, which got a standing ovation from the presumably hypnotized crowd in attendance. The only problem with that argument, however, is Bouwmeester isn't even the team's best defenseman. Mark Giordano is. And six months later, with the trading of Phaneuf (which I still agree with by the way - Ian White ended the season with more points than Dion or JBo, plus we locked up Ragin' Stajan long-term), we aren't much further ahead than we were last summer. Sure, the goals-against were way down, but so were the goals-for. Bottom line is, no goals = no playoff run.
This win-now mentality has plagued the Calgary Flames over the past 5 years. Brought about by Darryl's addiction to the feeling the playoff run gave him during the 2004 campaign. Oh how he would give anything to recapture that feeling. But he hasn't. Instead "win-now" has cost the team the ability to see into the future. Looking ahead to 2010-2011, we may not be able to win now, or later.
While I think Backlund, Wahl, Nemisz, Cameron, Erixon, Seabrook, Brodie, and Negrin are all exciting prospects, they're still long shots to be high-end talent. With guys like Regehr, Sarich, Iginla, and even Kiprusoff getting older, what exactly does the future hold?
Who knows, a couple of good signings might change everything. One thing I'll always give Darryl credit for is, he can sure woo players into signing with Calgary. Marleau, Frolov, Holmstrom, Armstrong...a decent UFA talent pool to choose from, no doubt. And the draft is always Darryl's playground. Could a Robyn Regehr or Cory Sarich deal swing us a first or second round pick? Anything is possible.
Oh, and Darryl needs to re-sign Ny Ny and Toskala.
Yup one of the "BAD" moves or non moves Sutter made. We talk so much about having chemistry with Iggy. This guy had it. After Jokinen came in his stats dropped. Even at $5.5M I'd take him. He is of the mold of todays NHL, small, quick and can score. He was a perfect person to potentially take over for Iggy. It pains me to see him in a Habs uni, especially since he may be the 2nd ex-Flame in a year to wear a "C" next year.
Those who think that somehow Cammalleri at 27 could replicate what Iginla did for this team at 27, have no concept or idea or even minute grasp of the game of hockey.
Seriously. The last few off-seasons, I've been at least optimistic with the future of the franchise. This year there's not much to keep me hopeful. I keep hoping that all the wheeling and dealing Daryl did this season was looking to the off-season and having the prospect of getting us something big. Honestly, though, I have no idea who would want to make a deal with us.
While I don't agree with some of the moves made this past season I think we need to move past Cammeleri. Again keep in mind that the guy who signed him lost his job largely due to his offseason signings. Also keep in mind the Habs would have finished in 12th place in the west and missed the playoffs. The sky is not falling
I don't know if Cammalleri is better than Langkow, but they each bring different things each night. What Cammalleri brings in terms of his goal scoring, ability to find openings and being a threat on the powerplay is a rarer talent than Langkows all round, all game states, proficiency. Player salaries are a market question and I think if the Flames could have signed him for $5 million that is value for those skills.
In any event, it is irrelevant because the Flames were allocating the Cammalleri dollars either to Jokinen (my personal belief and the clear implication from acquiring Jokinent) or JBouw (Darryl's post facto revisionist version used to please the season ticket holders).
And if the question is "Who is more likely to outscore the other team's best?" and the possible answers are Cammalleri or Jokinen - one answer qualifies you to comment intelligibly on the NHL and the other is Darryl Sutter's (revisionist history excepted).
As for the price point, I feel the same as Kent. At the $6 million he got from Montreal, and the 5 year term, I may have let him go too.
I don't base my judgment solely on the Flames situation.
From my perspective at $6 million for 5 years, you are making an awfully big bet in the 4th and 5th years on a player that, at the time, had appeared somewhat one dimensional. Cammalleri had shown himself very good at what he did but, and I think this is R O's point, he doesn't drive possession out of his own end and could be a liability against tough competition. I compare against a player like Tanguay in his years with the Flames by comparison.
I think there was a strong likelihood that for 2 or 3 or maybe 4 years the $6 million may give you value, but that 5th year is probably a dead ringer to not pay off. Also, note that prior to 2008-2009 Cammalleri had some injury trouble, so that would have to be weighed in on the probability of getting value on the deal.
It's about the decision making process here. I mean the numbers are all going to be close, a guy with Cammalleri's point totals will command somewhere in the 5-6 range anyway.
The point is, do we need that kind of player in the lineup? In the 2008 offseason, Sutter made the decision of Langkow over Huselius, brilliant IMO as the former helps drive the play and has some offensive chops too, the latter is just soft though (and not just in the corners).
Then he turns around and makes the exact reverse decision, effectively trading Tanguay for Cammalleri.
Then at the trade deadline he makes another decision like that, trading a useful (and cheap!) Lombardi for a terribad Jokinen.
If we're going to construct a roster that can compete with the Thrashers for mediocrity, then we should sign these types of forwards at the price points they command. Even if we bargain with them, we'll never get anywhere.
Otherwise we should just let them go even if it sseems like it hurst, because there's just not enough money. Sign the real impact forwards, even if you have to pay them a bit more, because the salary structure of the NHL practically dictates that it's not going to be an overpay if the guy is a real difference-maker.
Wow, hindsight is 20/20 eh?
It seemed pretty clear to me that Cammalleri was gone the moment that Jokinen was signed.
And based on their play in the last 20 games, and the playoffs, that seemed like a pretty fair trade off.
Who knew that Cammalleri would light it up in Montreal and Jokinen would be one of the biggest disappointments in years?
How many Flames fans were thinking "Man, I wish we had matched Montreal and signed Cammalleri for $6m and 5 years"? Not many.
Did this end badly for the Flames? Hell yeah. How many of us would have done anything differently at the time? Not many.
PS - Steinberg: Sorry about your early exit in the FHA playoffs. Glad to see you made it to the dance this year. Whistler (Jack Crompton) is my brother-in-law and business partner.
I have no data to back that up, but I know that Cammalleri thinks the game extremely well, and has vision that can't be taught. With the right, structured approach, I believe Cammalleri can thrive, and in more than just an offensive role.
Right, that's all well and good, but all that's done in good cushy soft icetime. PP minutes, or EV shifts with the puck in the OFF zone or going there, or in neutral ice with the opponent's second or third lines out. Look out if he ever faces a Richards or a Sedin or a Zetterberg or a Toews.
I mean you're totally right that with the right approach Cammalleri will produce. That's called "giving him soft minutes". Which means someone still has to play the tough minutes... let's pay that guy, oh wait we can't because Cammalleri has a bunch of the money we needed to pay him!
Final comment: Everything you've said about Cammalleri, you were probably saying about Jokinen when he arrived and near enough to the time when he was traded. And if not you who said it, then a phalanx of fans who think similarly to you.
While squid was in Calgary he was notorious for long and intense after practice workouts that usually involved shooting drills...... while the captain was at home with his feet up enjoying a latte.
Darryl had to get rid of him.... he was making the rest of the slugs look bad? or not..
Steinberg: you're going to have to elaborate exactly what you mean by the "right structure" because right now to me you are just making this up.
Pat and R O,
I think I am more in line with R O's assessment of Cammalleri's capabilities, but I think $5 million is value for a guy who can put up 35-40 goals playing second level competition and power plays. There aren't too many guys in the league who can do that.
I would offer Phil Kessel as a comparable. Scored 30 goals in 70 games (35 goal pace) and has a $5.4 million cap hit. I don't think I want him out facing the other teams best night in night out.
That's all well and good on paper PSteinberg but on the ice, there's the other team to worry about. I mean having the centre (or even Dman) carry the puck out of your own zone every time is never going to work against a smart forecheck, they'll just outman you every time. You also have to have the ability to make a good outlet yourself.
And that depends on a lot of things. Your natural skills, plus the quality of your teammates, minus the quality of your opposition of course, because the better they are the less time and space you have and the more prone you are for making mistakes. The best structure in the world won't help you when Zetterberg is coming in and you lack the ability to either get by him and his linemate with the puck or make an intelligent pass that he won't anticipate.
And then there's the play going forward, can Cammalleri keep the play alive very often without giving a ton back the other way too? From his year as a Flame he was prone to having the play die on his stick at times, he has a bit of a penchant for trying to beat guys in transition when there's nothing there. And of course he played a ton with Iggy in soft icetime, so the opposition allowed them more time and space to do what they do best. The best structure in the world won't help you keep the puck alive in the corners against Crosby.
So yeah, I'm not buying it at all, there is no way in hell or good green Earth that Cammalleri somehow magically turns into more than what he already is (at age 27) because of Brent Sutter's "structure".
Also...while it's true, Cammalleri was not put out against top players in the Washington series, the same cannot be said for this past series against Pittsburgh. Of the five even strength goals he scored, including a game 7 winner, in this series...every single one was scored with either Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin on the ice. Every single one.
I'd have to verify this, I saw Crosby play quite a bit against that Montreal "checking" line and Olivier's scoring chances seemed like Crosby played a ton against either Gomez and Pyatt and not as much against Plekanec/Cammalleri.
It's the truth. It's been at home and on the road. Again, you're right, a lot of the time with Calgary, he was playing cushy minutes. But he hasn't in the playoffs, he's being counted on as a driving force of their offence.
The scoring chance counts here, suggest otherwise. Cammalleri has outchanced twice by narrow margins but gotten completely blown out of the water a couple times. And the chances (for and against) that he's been on the ice for have come against numerous folk.


text:
Robin Brownlee
July 02 2013 04:29PM
Edmonton Oilers GM Craig MacTavish certainly set himself up for criticism by talking the talk before walking the walk prior to the NHL Entry Draft and free agency, but unless my ears have failed me completely, I heard MacT talk about making bold moves, not stupid moves.
So, while, like others, I do have some questions about his overall performance at the draft on the weekend– specifically, I'm wondering about how it came to be, exactly, that the Oilers used the seventh pick on Darnell Nurse rather than Valeri Nichushkin – I'm not unhappy with what I saw.
I've got no beef with picking Nurse as far as how he projects and what he brings to the table. He's tough, is diligent in his physical training and, from all accounts, is a character kid who interviewed very well. Teams can never have too much of that. My issue, I guess, is it's going to take three or even four years before the Oilers know what they have with him.
There's more risk in Nichushkin, a better chance he'll be a swing-and-a-miss rather than a homerun, but drafting that combination of size and skill would provide exactly what MacTavish's forwards lack. He could provide a bigger bang, and sooner, than Nurse. That, framed by the fact the Oilers haven't made the playoffs since 2006, made Nichushkin the more tempting pick for me.
I'm wondering if he was also the more tempting pick for Stu MacGregor and his scouting staff and if MacT, at some point, overruled his birddogs. When I hear Nichushkin was the guy as often as I did from people in the know, not the guessers, and Nurse gets selected, I wonder.
No conspiracy theory here because MacTavish wouldn't be the first GM to make the call on a pick regardless of the team's scouting list, especially if two kids are rated neck-and-neck, but I'm wondering if MacT went with his gut and took the safer pick over the big swing – that does fly in the face of his talk about being bold.
What I want from a GM, MacTavish in particular, after he's talked the talked about being bold, is that he puts himself in the middle of the mix on the draft floor instead of waiting around for his phone to ring like a wallflower. That he identifies the players he wants or needs, decides what he's willing to give up to get them and then starts pitching.
MacTavish, it was plain to see to anybody paying attention, certainly did that in his pursuit of Braydon Coburn in multiple conversations with Philadelphia GM Paul Holmgren. Homer, if reports are to be believed, put an unreasonable price tag on Coburn, so MacTavish, wisely, I say, said "no thanks."
Like MacTavish said, no deal is better than a stupid deal. If you've actually got a problem with that line of thinking – "But MacT promised he'd make a big deal at the draft" (no, he didn't) – I suggest you think again.
Trades, at least those that don't involve one of the parties involved grabbing their ankles, are difficult to make, as MacTavish alluded to on the weekend after failing to make the splash many anticipated. Sucker deals? There's always one on the table and, more often than not, they are offered up to rookie GMs like MacTavish.
As 630 CHED analyst Bob Stauffer has already suggested, don't be a bit surprised if MacTavish and Holmgren continue talking about Coburn. I'd be stunned if they don't.
. . . Funny business, the NHL game. Everybody with a functioning brain stem knows the Oilers need more nastiness and grit on their back end, yet today the Oilers walked away from a bunch of it by not qualifying Colten Teubert, Theo Peckham and Alex Plante (as well as Philip Cornet).
The problem with the three D-men who didn't get QO'd, of course, is that while they bring qualities the Oilers lack, none of them has proven they can play regular minutes at the NHL level and, as always, there are always a raft of younger prospects on the way.
We know what went wrong with Peckham. When his window of opportunity swing open, he showed up fat and couldn't fit through it. Plante has tons of jam but foot speed and concussions are an issue. Teubert? I'd really like to find out what went wrong there. Seems a bit early to turn the page on him.
. . . People here know I really like pending UFA David Clarkson and think he's be a perfect fit here because he brings leadership, toughness and pretty good skill to the dance, but heaven help the Oilers if they even think of offering the kind of money, more than $6 million a season, we heard about today. Clarkson might get that kind of cake from somebody, but it shouldn't be the Oilers.
Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.
July 03 2013, 09:48AM
The nurse pick as well as the later picks need to be viewed in the context of what the goals/timeline of macT are:
1. he has been allowed at least 3 years of failure before he would get the hook. Thus the shorter term is not that pressing. From his perspective the crap performance of the team over the past few years is irrelevant. The fan's perspective is completely different. And from the scouting staff's POV they are much more in the fan's camp than they are in MacT's - and that would explain why they were probably leaning much more towards the Rooshin. (and how many of the scouts will remain in any case?)
2. Making the playoffs in either of the next two years is also irrelevant to MacT. Sure it would be nice, and it would take the pressure off of Katz and put some money in Mr. K's designer jeans, but it won't result in MacT getting fired.
So, for MacT, a blossoming of the team into a playoff attendee on track to contend for the cup in say 5 to 6 years IS his goal. And Nurse and the other picks look largely to have been made for that purpose. were he more motivated by short-term issues he would have traded some or all of those picks.
Which brings us to what fate lies ahead for the starlings - RNH, TH, NY, JE and JS:
three years from now the oil likely wont be able to afford them. and thus one or more will be traded in the next couple of years to bring in the established and more affordable - but less talented and with much less upside - role players MacT is going to need to assure a playoff berth in the 2015-16 (!!) season.
As we near the beginning of the season it will become more clear that serious contention prospects for the oil have been pushed out to the 5+ years from now. Fan despair/depression will become ever more chronic. It remains to be seen if this will affect the gate...
PS- MacTs timeline also jives closely with the new arena's - not a complete co-inky dink...
"Pick of the draft for me was Chase. There is guy who the Oilers could use in OKC next year. And beyond if he has mind to do the dirty work. Love that pick.Best draft by a team"
Chase can't play in OKC next year, but he will get some much required Top 6 TOI for the Hitmen this upcoming season...
He's a project for sure, but a GREAT pick at 188th over-all..! He's nasty, & the Oil need that like DSF needs a new Etch A Sketch...
Stayed up last night to watch "Goon" on the tube last night. All I could think of watching that movie is where the frig is that guy on the Oilers squad. Then I thought we drafted that guy. In fact we drafted 2 of those guys in Nurse and Chase.2 NO FREAKIN WAY I AM GOING TO LET YOU DO THAT TO MY TEAMMATES KINDA GUYS.As far as I am concerned Nurse and Chase were exactly what this team needs going forward. I would have loved the Oilers to not waste their 2 3rd round picks on a couple of Russians who may or may not want to come to Canada. Yakomov and Slippery both apparently played with Yakupov at some point in the past. Yakomov at 6'5 has size but beyond that what do we get with the package other than that? Just way too many unknowns to waste 2 picks on imo.
You don't have to like the rules, you just have to follow them.
As for an appeal process, mustering the jam to look the person you insulted in the eye and apologize would be a start, but not a guarantee of reinstatement. That, experience has shown, is not a quality common to those prone to running their mouths from a distance.
NewAgeSys is not coming back.
RIP Gary Busey.
July 03 2013, 11:56AM
@Serious Gord
Take off your tinfoil hat and enjoy the sunshine.
Robin, I agree with you comments on MacT. I'm not a big fan of his, but am willing to give some leeway as GM. My biggest issue with his hiring is that I don't think the Oilers needed another rookie GM...we needed someone who has been through this before, knows the other GM's, and how to wade those waters...almost a Brian Burke tuype.
But I am willing to give MAcT a chance...but as soon as he started talking about bold move, and putting Hemsky/Horcoff names out there...I was thinking, 'what an idiot'...now he better do something or he comes off looking like a fool.
So far...all talk, no walk....sounds familiar in this town.
July 03 2013, 03:45PM
Take off your tinfoil hat and enjoy the sunshine.
Make a rational case to the contrary.


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