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Descent, Part II (episode)
this wiki
(written from a Production point of view)
Picard tries to free Data from Lore's control; the Enterprise battles the Borg ship. (Season Premiere)
Summary Edit
After Lore reveals himself to Jean-Luc Picard, Deanna Troi, and Geordi La Forge, the three are confronted by the fact that Data and Lore are now working together. Lore and Data tell Picard that the end of biological life is at hand and the age of completely artificial lifeforms has begun. He has Data take them away.
Act One Edit
Dr. Beverly Crusher, now in command of the USS Enterprise-D with only a skeleton crew, faces a ship that matches the configuration of the rogue Borg ship that attacked the outpost on Ohniaka III and is closing in on their location. Crusher orders the ship to red alert and tries to speed the recovery of the away teams on the planet. The new tactical officer, Taitt, shows obvious inexperience, having been posted there only six weeks prior. When the Borg ship is in firing range, Crusher waits for the last minute to raise shields. After the Borg fire on the Enterprise, Crusher returns fire with a pair of photon torpedoes, which do nothing. The ship however, rescues all but 47 of the crew from the surface before escaping the Borg attack. Commander Riker and Worf head off to search for the captain's team, which is being led to a holding cell by Data and a Borg.
Picard's team discusses with Data his newfound emotions, and Data responds by telling them how his journey towards being Human was "misguided" and that he now sees the true way that things should be. Data takes their combadges and La Forge's VISOR before leaving. As he activates the force field around their cell, he states coldly, "I am not your puppet any more."
Act Two Edit
Lieutenant Barnaby relieves Taitt at tactical, but Crusher sends her to the bridge's aft science station to keep her on the bridge. She orders a buoy readied with their log entries and releases it into the transwarp corridor to transmit them to Starfleet. Meanwhile, Crusher and company ready a plan to drop out of warp in orbit of the planet and rescue the remaining crewmembers. Data brings La Forge's VISOR to Lore, who puts it on and jokingly asks, "How do I look?" Data, not understanding, is confused. Lore remarks that Data will have to work on his sense of humor. They are interrupted by Crosis, who brings a disobedient Borg named Goval to Lore because he was not letting Crosis hear his thoughts. La Forge, in the meantime, has been conspiring with Picard and Troi to find a way around the carrier wave that Lore is using to broadcast his emotions to Data. His ethical subroutines could be rebooted using a kedion pulse, it seems, but in the middle of the conversation, Data enters and takes La Forge away for experimentation.
Riker and Worf are following the trail of the captain when they are cornered by some Borg, who take them to Hugh, leader of an underground group of Borg.
Act Three Edit
Hugh does not like the return of the crew of the Enterprise, whom he blames for the current state of the rogue Borg. He explains how Lore promised clarity and purpose to the Borg that were not connected to the collective anymore, due to Hugh's experience with individuality. He shows Riker and Worf the results of the experiments that Lore is attempting on the Borg: two individuals in an obviously bad state. However, he agrees to show Riker and Worf a way into the compound to save his friend, La Forge.
Troi, standing over the body of Picard, calls a Borg over to help her. When the Borg leans over to check out Picard, the Captain pulls out a cable on the Borg's neck. Picard then steals the interlink transceiver while Troi takes the weapon from the Borg's arm to check the hall. There, she finds Data escorting La Forge back to the cell. Data takes the weapon and leaves with the Borg, but Picard has covertly taken the transceiver so that they can use it to help activate Data's ethical subroutines.
The Enterprise drops out of warp and transporter chief Salazar transports the last of the crew off of the surface, but informs the bridge that six people (Picard, Riker, Troi, Worf, La Forge, and an officer who had been killed by the Borg) still remain. Just as the Borg ship returns for another fight, Crusher orders shields up, but the Enterprise takes a hit which disables their warp drive. Retaliating with phasers, the Borg ship fires again which takes a toll on the shields. Crusher then orders the Enterprise into the nearby sun's corona, much to Taitt's disbelief.
Act Four Edit
Approaching the star, Crusher orders Barnaby to activate the metaphasic shielding, but he reminds her that the shield is still in an experimental stage. Once activated, it works; it lowers the radiation level and temperature of the hull while getting the Borg ship off their tail. The Borg take a position, letting them know that they will wait until they come out of the sun. Crusher wonders how long they can stay in the sun's corona.
Picard has finished modifications on the interlink transceiver, and places it near the force field, activating the pulse that will reset Data's subroutines. Meanwhile, Data is ready to irradiate La Forge's brain cells and begin construction of a positronic net to take the place of his biological brain. However, the pulse works, and at La Forge's coaxing, Data thinks of a false excuse to not destroy La Forge's brain yet.
Outside, Lore and Data are chatting regarding La Forge. Data then projects accountability towards his comrades, stating that if they die, he is responsible. Lore wonders if something is wrong with Data's systems, then begins to induce pain within Data. Under duress, Data asks for more emotions, which Lore gives. As soon as he leaves, Crosis emerges and Lore wonders if Data has the strength to help Lore in his plan.
Act Five Edit
Faced with only a few minutes of metaphasic shielding left, Taitt, having done her senior honors thesis on solar dynamics at the Academy, thinks up a plan to create a solar eruption to destroy the Borg ship. Barnaby objects, reminding Taitt that this is not the Academy, and that comparing the two is a long way from actually trying it. Taitt assures him that she's got a targeting sequence lined up. Barnaby tells her if her calculations are even slightly off, the eruption could obliterate the Enterprise as well. Taitt bluntly reassures him, echoing his own retort from earlier. After firing phasers and using the tractor beam, the Borg ship is destroyed, to the surprise and delight of Barnaby. Taitt just gives him a sly grin. With the Borg ship destroyed, the Enterprise is free to orbit the planet again.
Back on the planet, Data returns with La Forge and then takes Picard, who begins to confuse Data by activating portions of his ethical subroutines. Lore enters, and as part of a ceremony, orders Data to kill Picard. The ethical subroutine has been activated, and Data tells Lore that that would be wrong. Beneath the surface, Riker and Worf use the environmental conduits to get to the central room, and then attack at a key point in the events when Lore was about to kill Data. Hugh tackles Lore, preventing him from killing Data.
Lore escapes from the room, and Data follows. As Lore tries to coerce Data into leaving the planet with him, Data shoots and proceeds to deactivate his brother once and for all. Lore's last words before his deactivation are, "I love you, brother."
Picard, Riker, and Worf thank Hugh and welcome Data back to normal functioning. Picard hints that even though Hugh is unsure of their future, perhaps these Borg have a good individual leader for the future.
Back on the ship, La Forge enters Data's quarters and walks over to his desk, where Spot is lying. La Forge tells Data that he will return to duty soon. Data is relieved at this, and shows La Forge the damaged and inoperative emotion chip that was retrieved from Lore's body. He is about to destroy it with a phaser, because his friendship with La Forge is more important to him than emotions, and emotions are what caused him to harm and nearly kill his friend. La Forge stops him and says that perhaps someday they will be able to use the emotion chip. After all, it is Data's lifelong dream to have emotions, and, as La Forge concludes, "I wouldn't be very much of a friend if I let you give up on a life-long dream now, would I? Maybe some day, when you're ready."
Memorable quotes Edit
"They had lost their sense of purpose. Well, I gave them their purpose... and they gave me mine."
- - Lore, on the Borg he discovered and later became leader of
"The reign of biological life-forms is coming to an end. You, Picard, and those like you, are obsolete!"
- - Lore
"Give me your VISOR."
"Give it to me... or I will take it by force!"
- - Data and La Forge
"I now realize that my life aboard the Enterprise was a waste. My quest to become Human, misguided. An evolutionary step in the wrong direction .... I am not your puppet anymore!"
- - Data, under Lore's influence
"What's your name?"
"Taitt, sir."
"I don't think I've seen you before."
"I was just posted here six weeks ago."
"Well, Taitt, I bet you never thought you'd be serving as Tactical Officer after only six weeks."
"No, sir, I sure didn't!"
- - Crusher (as Acting Captain) and Taitt
"Establish a frequency shift firing pattern and return fire!"
"Uh... right!"
- - Crusher and Taitt, during battle with the Borg
"If your calculations are even slightly off, we'd hit the atmosphere."
"I'll just have to be sure my calculations are accurate, ensign."
- - Taitt and Barnaby, when Barnaby suggests taking the Enterprise out of warp and instantly entering orbit
"If her calculations are off that eruption could encompass us!"
"Well I'll just have to make sure my calculations are accurate, Lieutenant!"
- - Barnaby and Taitt, later on
"Yes please, I want more!"
- - Data about emotions
"Lore. I must deactivate you now."
"Without me, you will never feel emotions again."
"I know. But you leave me no other choice."
"I ... love you ... brother."
"Goodbye, Lore."
- - Data and Lore, having their final conversation
"We can't go back to the Borg Collective... and we no longer have a leader here."
"I'm not sure that's true."
- - Hugh and Picard
"Data, I wouldn't be very much of a friend if I let you give up on a lifelong dream, now would I? Maybe... someday, when you're ready."
- - La Forge stopping Data from destroying his emotion chip (last lines)
Background information Edit
Story and production Edit
- In an early draft, Barclay was to be on the bridge as part of the skeleton crew. Due to availability and cost issues, Ensign Taitt was written to take his place. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)
- The Rogue Borg compound was the Brandeis-Bardin Campus, American Jewish University, which was also used as Camp Khitomer in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
- Interiors of the compound were a narrow three-wall set that was multiplied optically, along with the Borg extras. These were left standing over hiatus, but the caverns were built for this episode. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)
- The terminal that Lore is working at just prior to his deactivation is the same prop as the theta-band wave emitter in "Chain of Command, Part I".
- The first draft of the script had Data kill Lore in self-defense in a phaser battle, but Michael Piller suggested a less overt means. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)
- Several costumes and props from this episode were sold off on the It's A Wrap! sale and auction on eBay, including costume parts for Michael Reilly Burke. [1]
- First UK airdate: 10 January 1996
Continuity Edit
- There are 47 crew members left on the planet after Dr. Crusher takes the Enterprise out of orbit.
- Beverly's support for the experimental metaphasic shielding technology was the focus of "Suspicions". In that episode, James Horan, who plays Lieutenant Barnaby here, played Jo'Bril, an alien trying to steal the shield technology.
- Lore's final scene is similar to the deactivation of the HAL 9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
- Jonathan Del Arco reprises his role as Hugh from the TNG's fifth season episode "I Borg". However, he shares no screen time with Geordi, with whom he had the closest relationship in the earlier episode, although their friendship is mentioned.
- At the end of the season, it is implied that Data would eventually begin to use the emotion chip, as shown in the alternate future timeline of "All Good Things..." in which he remarks that his housekeeper makes him laugh. The emotion chip was next seen in Star Trek Generations, where it became fused into Data's neural net, forcing him to learn to deal with having emotions on a permanent basis. He eventually gains the ability to deactivate, and later remove completely, the chip in Star Trek: First Contact and Star Trek: Insurrection. The design of the emotion chip seen here is different than the one seen in Star Trek Generations.
- Geordi mentions that, while attempting to swim at Devala Lake, Data sunk to the bottom, though in Star Trek: Insurrection, it is shown that Data has been designed to act as a flotation device.
Video and DVD releases Edit
- UK VHS release (two-episode tapes, CIC Video): Volume 77, catalog number VHR 2739, 7 March 1994
- As part of the UK VHS collection Star Trek: The Next Generation - Borg Box: 5 December 1994
- In feature-length form, as part of the UK VHS release Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Full Length TV Movies: Volume 8, catalog number VHR 4108, 24 April 1995
- As part of the US VHS collection Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Data Collection: 19 August 1997
- As part of the TNG Season 7 DVD collection
- In feature-length form, as part of the Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Complete TV Movies collection
- As part of the Star Trek: Fan Collective - Borg collection
Links and references Edit
Starring Edit
Also starring Edit
- LeVar Burton as Lt. Cmdr. Geordi La Forge
- Michael Dorn as Lieutenant Worf
- Gates McFadden as Dr. Beverly Crusher
- Marina Sirtis as Counselor Deanna Troi
- Brent Spiner as Lt. Commander Data / Lore
Guest stars Edit
- Jonathan Del Arco as Hugh
- Alex Datcher as Taitt
- James Horan as Barnaby
- Brian Cousins as Crosis
Co-stars Edit
Uncredited co-stars Edit
- David Keith Anderson as Armstrong
- Majel Barrett as Narrator
- Pam Blackwell as Borg
- Steven Boz as
- Brandy as Spot
- Bud as Spot
- Carl David Burks as
- Tracee Lee Cocco as
- Debra Dilley as Borg
- Gary Hunter as Borg
- Debbie Marsh as command division ensign
- Rad Milo as operations division ensign
- Monster as Spot
- Joe Murphy as Borg
- Craig Reed as crippled Borg drone
- Joyce Robinson as Gates
- Richard Sarstedt as command division ensign
- Adrian Tafoya as Borg
- Rogan Wilde as Borg
- Unknown performers as
Stunt doubles Edit
- Brian J. Williams as stunt double for Brent Spiner
- Unknown stunt performer as stunt double for Brian Cousins
Stand-ins and photo double Edit
- David Keith Anderson – stand-in for LeVar Burton
- Carl David Burks – stand-in for Brent Spiner
- Michael Echols – stand-in for Michael Dorn
- Nora Leonhardt – stand-in for Marina Sirtis
- Lorine Mendell – stand-in for Gates McFadden
- Richard Sarstedt – stand-in for Jonathan Frakes
- Dennis Tracy – stand-in for Patrick Stewart
- Unknown actor – photo double for Brent Spiner
References Edit
Borg; Borg Collective; Borg ship; carrier wave; Celsius; Delta Quadrant; Devala Lake; dizziness; El-Baz; electromagnetic pulse; emergency buoy; emotion chip; evasive maneuvers; Federation; kedion pulse; metaphasic shield; millicochrane; photosphere; rad; red alert; neural shock; Ohniaka III; pain receptor; particle beam; solar dynamics; solar fusion eruption; Soong, Noonian; subspace distortion; Starbase 295; Starfleet; Starfleet Academy; swimming; team leader; transwarp; tricorder; VISOR
External links Edit
- "Descent" at Memory Beta, the wiki for licensed Star Trek works
- "Descent" at Wikipedia
- "Descent, Part II" at StarTrek.com, the official Star Trek website
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Geez, and I thought Thanksgiving was a tough holiday to survive.
With Christmas comes a lot of holiday parties and get-togethers (here at the Journal we have two food-related events, and that's not counting get-togethers with my friends), and then there's everything involved with getting ready for the season (shopping, decorating, wrapping, etc).
All of this means extra cooking, extra food, extra time spent doing things that Have To Be Done. I do my working out at night (I am NOT a morning kind of girl), so by the end of the day – after working and getting Christmas-y things done – I'm done. I'm lucky if I make it to the gym. And if I'm there, I'm probably drinking a Red Bull to keep up my energy.
So, December has been about maintaining for me. I'm still at 35. I'm OK with this, since it has been a tough season.
But really, I'm not sure how someone manages to lose weight in a month like this. I love the holiday season – spending time with folks you don't see often, that sort of thing – but at the same time, all of the hustle and bustle leaves me tired and reaching for the most convenient food possible (also, whatever takes the shortest amount of time to fix) and for my bed, because it seems like I don't spend enough time with it.
So, I'm trying to eat as well as I can.
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Local Sears among dozens to close across country
HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. - Sears Holdings released a partial list Thursday of the Sears and Kmart stores it plans to close in the new year.
Among the 79 stores on the list is the Sears at the Coventry Mall in North Coventry Twp., Chester Co., near Pottstown.
Sears is one of three department stores to anchor the mall. The others are Kohl's and Exeter Twp., Berks Co.-based Boscov's.
"We have an experienced and talented staff of leasing agents equipped to deal with this," Jeff Price, the Coventry Mall's property manager, told 69 News on Thursday. "Once we are officially notified, we handle the situation accordingly."
Several Sears customers said they were upset by the news.
"It's really sad to see the store closing. It's been around ever since I can remember, all my life really," said John Steven of Pottstown. "I guess it's just a sign of the times."
No Kmart stores in Pennsylvania made the closure list, and all Kmart and Sears stores in New Jersey were spared.
Sears has not yet announced closing dates for the affected stores. There was also no immediate word on how many jobs will be lost.
The company announced Tuesday that it planned to close 100 to 120 Sears and Kmart stores as the retailer continues to struggle with declining sales.
Same-store revenue fell 5.2 percent to date for the quarter at both Sears and Kmart, the company said.
Kmart's declining sales were blamed on diminished layaways and a drop in clothing and consumer electronics sales.
Sears cited lackluster consumer electronics and home appliance sales.
The company said the store closings will generate between $140 and $170 million in cash in inventory sales.
The retailer also anticipates additional proceeds from the sale or sublease of real estate holdings, but the announcement raised new doubts among analysts about whether the 125-year-old Sears will ultimately be able to survive.
The other Pennsylvania Sears set to close is located in Upper Darby, near Philadelphia.
But for many faithful shoppers at the Coventry Mall, they said it will be hard to say goodbye to their Sears.
"I'm pretty sure it's not only devastating to me. I'm pretty sure it's devastating to a lot of people because Sears is Sears," said Haylee Emery of Pottstown.
Sears has more than 4,000 stores in the U.S. and Canada.
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text: Next → Book Review: FDR and Polio ← Previous PHOTOS: Milstein Meeting on New Manufacturing You might also like... PODCAST: Can Startups Save the American Dream? (05/19/15) ARTICLE: Raising New Capital for Your Mission-Driven Startup (05/19/15) ARTICLE: Red Tape Is Killing Startups - Here's How To Fix It (05/13/15) ARTICLE: Beyond Silicon Valley (04/30/15) ARTICLE: Teaching Tomorrow's Founders: Ideas for K-12 Education (04/24/15) Presidential Speech Archive American President: A Reference Resource Presidential Recordings Presidential Oral Histories ← Return to Riding The Tiger November 26, 2013 By Juliana Bush Among American workers, poll finds unprecedented anxiety about jobs, economy More than six in 10 workers in a recent Washington Post/Miller Center poll worry that they will lose their jobs to the economy, surpassing concerns in more than a dozen surveys dating to the 1970s. Read more about the increasing job anxieties of U.S. workers here. In its first year, the Milstein Symposium will focus on nonpartisan and actionable ways to create new jobs for the future that will provide a more assured future for America's workers. Tweet [0 Comments] Date edited: 02/18/2014 (3:00PM) Comments Rules for Comments We reserve the right to remove any post or user. Things that will get comments edited/deleted: Offensive or abusive language or behavior Misrepresentation (i.e., claiming to be somebody you're not) – using a "handle" is fine as long as it isn't offensive, abusive, or misrepresentative Posting of copyrighted materials Spam, solicitations, or advertisements of any kind We hope these rules will keep the discussion lively and on topic. Name: Email: URL: Add your comments: Remember my personal information Notify me of follow-up comments? ← Return to Riding The Tiger


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Akademika Bed and Breakfast is located on Michigan Avenue, a prime location in Urbana with beautiful houses, cobblestone streets, and trees. Within a family neighborhood, Akademika offers amenities and a close location to campus, just one block from the southeast section of campus and a few minutes walking distance from the Main Quad and the Assembly Hall. This is a historic, quiet, safe and beautiful residential area with beautiful houses, cobblestone streets, and trees. Great for jogging!
At Alexander's Steakhouse, each guest has the opportunity to select their own Steak from the locker and cook it their own special way over a live charcoal grill. Guests can select from twelve different Steak Cuts, such as Ribeye, T-Bone, Filet or our own "Santa Maria" Top Sirloin. All steaks are hand cut daily by our in-house butchers from aged USDA choice Midwestern Beef. Perfect place for groups!
Allerton Park & Retreat Center
Allerton Park was the private estate of Robert Henry Allerton, who donated it to the University of Illinois in 1946. It features 1,500 acres of woodlands, formal gardens and more than 100 sculptures. The park is open to the public for hiking, picnicking, cross-country skiing and leisurely garden strolls.
Alto Vineyards' retail wine shop and tasting room offers custom gift baskets, gourmet foods and local artwork. Indoor and outdoor seating offers a place to relax with a glass of Alto's finest. Alto's original location is situated in Alto Pass, on the Shawnee Hills Wine Trail.
Located at the north end of Crystal Lake Park, this environmental education facility is a natural resource to individuals, families and groups interested in learning more about the outdoors. The Nature Center features four multi-purpose rooms, an exhibit field station, an Observation Room, the Audubon Nature Shop and an Educator Resource Room. The adjacent Busey Woods is perfect for hiking and bird watching.
Antiques & More at Staley Road
Antiques & More at Staley Road is the largest antique, primitive, retro and collectible store around the Champaign area. With over 70 vendors, something is bound to catch your eye. From blue mason jars, vintage chairs and antique toys to antique bed frames, signs and artwork, you'll find something to check off of your list. Our store features Bella Ruth Vintro Style Boutique and is equipped with jewelry, clothing and accessories to add a vintage and retro feel to any outfit. On any day, you can find the owner in vintage clothing to help customers find inspiration for retro outfits.
Located on the University of Illinois campus for students needing that late pizza craving, Antonio's is for the mouthwatering pizza lover. Loaded with toppings on freshly made crust, a variety of scrumptious appetizers and hearty sandwiches, look no further than Antonio's!
Looking for a friendly family like service restaurant, and excellent dining options? Well unlike any other restaurant in Urbana; the Apple Dumpling can't be more of a family-style dining establishment. With their featured menu item, the fried chicken which receives 4 stars in the local review, you can't beat the food here at Apple Dumpling.
Serves breakfast, lunch, dinner, family style.
Traditional korean dishes with undilluted authentic flavours! Simply put, the focus is good food, not trendy garnish, so enjoy!
Bakery, Pastry, and Sandwich (Hot or Cold) place for all. Either for small talk with a friend or friends OR a hook-up for laptop users either for business or pleasure with Wi-Fi available.
Upscale wine bar in Downtown Champaign offering an eclectic menu and outstanding wine list. This local favorite utilizes resources from regional farms to create an outstanding menu. A lounge on one side is great for small groups desiring an intimate evening.
A real Bavarian experience awaits you in this family-owned and operated restaurant. Bayern Stube, located in Gibson City, offers authentic Bavarian cuisine in a cozy, traditional atmosphere; with dishes like schnitzels, sausages and homemade desserts to fill your soul.
CITY:Gibson City
At the Baymont Inn & Suites you'll enjoy a relaxing stay with our luxurious pillow-top mattresses, hot breakfast, and complimentary amenities. Our friendly staff is waiting to show you what Baymont's signature brand of Hometown Hospitality is all about.
Coffees, scones, breakfasts, imported teas, homemade pastries.
This traditional pub in Downtown Champaign is off the beaten path and likes it that way. A great selection of beers and a crowd of regulars keep this bar hopping. Live music weekly.
Best Western Monticello Gateway Inn
44 guest rooms. Inside entrances, elevator. There are some extended stay rooms with kitchenettes. Conference facilities including banquet room (350), meeting space/conference room, olympic size indoor pool and extensive outdoor deck area that is available for private events.
Best Western-Paradise Inn - Savoy
Need to stay overnight for an overdue plane? Stay within seconds at this nice, quiet, and cozy Best Western just a few miles from Willard Airport. Enjoy the outdoor pool, and cable television hook up as you possibly await to depart Champaign County.
Customers' satisfaction is our first priority. We always serve good authentic Chinese food in fair price.
Smalltown coffee house for those on the go, or you can sit down inside to catch up with friends or family. Business and Pleasure settings.
Bevier Cafe offers an outstanding selection of food, beverages, and services. Whether you're planning a breakfast meeting, working luncheon, or afternoon reception, you'll find our selections versatile and accommodating to your budget.
Biaggi's combines a friendly & exceptionally knowledgeable staff with affordable, freshly prepared Italian cuisine to create an authentic Italian dining experience.
Big Grove Tavern is a Farm-to-Table restaurant in downtown Champaign featuring seasonal comfort food. Almost everything we serve at Big Grove Tavern is made from scratch, in house, using seasonal ingredients, sourced locally whenever possible. We source locally, not only to create delicious dishes, but to help support our neighbors.
Billy Barooz has the atmosphere of a sports bar while offering high-quality cuisine. Meet up with friends and watch the game, grab drinks at the bar, or enjoy a family meal in the dining area. Don't forget to try their nachos!


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Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER
>>>>>>>> Darrelle Revis Discussion <<<<<<<<
Posted 24 August 2010 - 03:38 AM
Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:39 PM
Exterminate all rational thought, that is the conclusion I have come to
Posted 24 August 2010 - 03:13 PM
Quote from another poster who listened to it, more than 1 poster is saying this so its not a lie and probably be in the archives on ESPNNewyork.
"Bill Daughtry was at a dinner yesterday with 4 financial guys. One of them is a friend of Revis' agent guys. He says that Revis' guy sent him an email at 4 AM telling him that Revis would sign his extension deal on THURSDAY"
Revis taped TV interview yesterday to air Wednesday. Not part of "Hard Knocks" I don't think. Checking now to find out what said. less than a minute ago via web
Jets' meeting with Revis' people tonite will decide if I was a little overconfident in my initial prediction. But they're talking. 20 minutes ago via web
Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:08 PM
Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:32 PM
Darrelle Revis-DB- Jets Aug. 24 - 5:25 pm et
Dan Graziano of AOL NFL Fanhouse reports that the Jets are "almost there" on a new contract for Darrelle Revis.
Fanhouse, which doesn't typically break such big stories, cites a "source close to the situation" in attempting to confirm Tim Cowlishaw's "report" from the weekend. The sides reportedly will meet Tuesday night, and Graziano claims an agreement could be "announced in the coming days." Last we heard, the sides were about $40 million apart on total compensation, though guarantees and years are typically the biggest sticking points in such deals.
Source: AOL NFL Fanhouse[/quote]
Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:38 PM
Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:51 PM
This is seriously worse then the LeBron James debacle of free agency. Revis HAS become bigger then the team and that concerns me
maybe brad smith is worth more because he plays many positions for the team . your just frustrated .
Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:02 PM
maybe brad smith is worth more because he plays many positions for the team . your just frustrated .
Posted 24 August 2010 - 05:25 PM
Revis HAS become bigger then the team and that concerns me
Didn't I say just this a while back and got blasted for it? No single player should EVER be bigger than the team.
When someone annoys u, it takes 42 muscles in ur face 2 frown. BUT, it only takes 4 muscles 2 extend ur arm & b!tch-slap that mother@*?!&! upside the head!!
Posted 24 August 2010 - 07:41 PM
Didn't I say just this a while back and got blasted for it? No single player should EVER be bigger than the team.
I dont know how much he did to make it this big. If he were a 2nd tier player and took the same course it would not have been a big deal. I am not saying he handled it perfect but I dont see him as thinking he is bigger than the team.
Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:59 PM
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Comments 4
I was recently watching Hard Knocks on HBO. This season, they're actually covering my favorite team, and one of the big story lines this season for The Jets is Darrelle Revis being a hold out . . . or as he calls himself "Revis Island."
Darrelle Revis was due $20 million. Think for a second about what you would do with a salary of $20 million over the next two years. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of freedom.
That wasn't enough for Darrelle Revis, though, after he learned that Al Davis from the Raiders paid his star cornerback $16 million (making him higher paid than Peyton Manning). If you know anything about football, then you know that Al Davis is one of the lunatics of football. He paid that cornerback an amount that no cornerback should ever receive, but Al Davis decided to do it any way.
Because of this, Darrelle Revis and his ego -- we'll call him Ego Island -- decided that he didn't want to play for just $20 million over the next two years. He wants to be making at least $16 million plus one penny per year for the next two years.
He needs to be the highest paid player, so he's holding out. He's holding out and missing an opportunity to be part of what could be a New York Jet's Super Bowl season.
I mean, every team has Super Bowl aspirations this time of year, but the Jets actually have the defense, the running game, and just enough passing game to maybe get to the big game (the Super Bowl) this February. You don't have an opportunity very often to get to that big game in February. The majority of people who play football never touch the Super Bowl.
So Darrelle Revis is holding out because he is being selfish, and disappointing his teammates and everyone else in the process. He is showing that he is only playing for the money.
So how am I going to relate this to your personal life? You knew I was going to do that.
Well here it is: Do you hold out in your personal life?
Do you intentionally ignore somebody, thinking that by doing that you are going to get what you want from them?
Are you in a marriage, and you are holding out on having sex with your spouse because they don't do something for you? So instead of talking about it, you are actually holding off on things in a very passive-aggressive manner.
Are you dating right now and you really like somebody, but you won't call them because you don't want to seem over-anxious? So you hold out, not making the phone call and sending messages to that other person.
See, in life we hold out for a lot of different things. When we think about holding out, we always think it is going to accomplish something.
In reality, though, the only thing that you accomplish when you hold out is to alienate the person on whom you have been holding out. The longer you hold out -- and keep in mind that holding out is a very passive-aggressive thing -- the more you will alienate the person on whom you've been holding out.
Then by the time you actually go and talk to that person, and try to explain the reasons why you have been holding out, the other person is so fed up with you that they don't care anymore why you held out and they no longer want to do the things for you anymore.
There's no good that comes from holding out no matter whether you do it in your job or in your personal life. So maybe all of us should look at Darrelle Revis today and realize that holding out is just egotistical and selfish, and that all it accomplishes is to alienate all the people who respect and care about you.
So here is a tip for you Darrelle: You are going to lose all of your teammates because they're all there. Some of them don't feel like they're compensated enough, but they have shown up anyway because they are part of the team and team members don't let each other down.
Look at Darrelle Revis and his behavior, and compare it to your own life. Ask yourself if you are letting anybody down right now. Ask yourself if you are being passive-aggressive by holding out.
So, Darrelle, you really did create Revis Island . . . except that this Island is inhabited by you and no one else. What is ironic is that Darrelle Revis always talks about Revis Island at the same time his teammates practice and bond with each other. He is all alone on a self-created island.
That's what holding out in your personal life will do to you. Do you want your own island?[/quote]
Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:21 PM
It was meant to get attention smith has more value than revis .How long will revis be the unstoppable corner. he could be cursed fro this greed who knows.
Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:45 PM
Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:48 AM
morts got hearsay saying deal is done.
Posted 25 August 2010 - 12:51 AM
^^^The tweet gojets is talking about
But damn, 150 million? I hope he is getting a shit ton of his money this year. this contract does not sound very cap friendly...
"I'm glad that the Gillette field was soft and messy
since I spent so much time down on it."-Tom Brady
Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:09 AM
Bob Pompeani or @KDPomp of KDKA (Pittsburgh - where Revis played college ball) tweeted he "hears" deal is 10-yrs, $150m, $65m guaranteed
^^^The tweet gojets is talking about
But damn, 150 million? I hope he is getting a shit ton of his money this year. this contract does not sound very cap friendly...
Yea thats what I'm hearing as well. I really hope they get him inked so we can put this behind us and he'll never hold out again.
Posted 25 August 2010 - 08:42 AM
Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:01 AM
Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:11 AM
Say we do sign him, and im still skeptical we will. We f***ing BETTER have a "no holdout clause" or something so when the new cba is done he doesn't decide to hold out again for more money haha. But honestly i think that he'll try and hold out again at some pt. He's done it twice already. Im so over this kid man. If we win this yr id like to see him gone next yr. He's a thorn in the teams side
If we win this season and he is a key part of the team (and im sure he will regardless) I GUARANTEE you will take this comment back.
Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:12 AM
Say we do sign him, and im still skeptical we will. We f***ing BETTER have a "no holdout clause" or something so when the new cba is done he doesn't decide to hold out again for more money haha. But honestly i think that he'll try and hold out again at some pt. He's done it twice already. Im so over this kid man. If we win this yr id like to see him gone next yr. He's a thorn in the teams side
c'mon man. all Jets fans alike are frustrated with the Revis dispute, but don't go crazy. who cares who held out and who gets paid what? if the Jets defense is dominating with Revis and winning games, then none of that should matter to anybody.


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Tanzanite Rings
Rare and alluring, the complex color of our tanzanite rings will entrance everyone you meet! Our collection of glinting tanzanite rings includes an imaginative variety of styles and designs, all handcrafted from 14K or 18K white, yellow, or rose gold. Brilliant round and baguette cut diamonds enhance many of the designs with added shimmer. We invite you to browse our collection, and don't forget to click on the videos to enjoy the full experience of each creation.
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Skechers Liv Smart Walking Shoe - Womens
Sorry, this item is sold out!
Looks like you've got more shoe shopping to do - have fun!
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Item # 236241
The Smart Shoe™ for you! Feel the burn, enhance your daily routine and feel the comfort in the Skechers® Liv Smart training shoes. Walk or jog and transform the impact into reusable energy with its unique design!
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By STEPHEN B. CARKEEK JR.Retired - United Airlines
Editor - I read with absolute amazement how U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Wedoff approved of United Airlines abandoning its pension program and putting tens of thousands of retiree's financial future in jeopardy. Honest, hard working employees put the better part of half a century's work, trusting and counting on United to live their retirement in financial security.
I can only say that United Airlines actions are shameful at best and to top it off, United is getting the American taxpayer to assume their pension responsibilities.
One would have to wonder how well United cares for their passengers considering how badly they abused their current and past employees. What ever happened to the friendly skies?


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All photos/art by Hornick/Rivlin
1. Recycled glass coasters ($80 set of 4) are fun–and protect tables, too. Happy Owl Glassworks, Concord, MA. happyowlglass.com
2. Hold on tight to your drinks with this sturdy "Trigger Mug" ($52 set of 4). Bennington Potters, Bennington, VT. 802-447-7531; benningtonpotters.com
3. Pure linen towels (from $40) absorb like crazy and last a long time. Brahms/Mount Textiles, Hallowell, ME. 800-545-9347; brahmsmount.com
4. Cocoa looks snazzy and stays warm in a pewter hot chocolate pot (about $150). Woodbury Pewter, Woodbury, CT. 800-648-2014; woodburypewter.com
5. There's nothing funny about the serious hot chocolate flavor of Silly Cow Farms organic mix ($6). Bread & Chocolate, Wells River, VT. 802-429-2920; burnhamandmills.com
6. Alpaca and wool create a soft throw ($189). Emma Gardner Design, Litchfield, CT. 860-567-5201; emmagardnerdesign.com
7. Build your own clean-lined "No. 7" tape-back rocker ($290 for the kit)–or pick the finished version ($580). Shaker Workshops, Ashburnham, MA. 978-827-9900; shakerworkshops.com
8. Intricate naturalist drawings highlight hand-built earthenware vases ($110/$135). Laura Zindel Ceramics, Guilford, VT. 802-254-8930; zindelceramics.com
9. Warm up around this iron fireplace grate ($119.95). American Personalized Products, Greenfield, NH. americanpersonalizedproducts.com


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By David Wheeler/Special to the NEMS Daily Journal
FULTON – The Itawamba Indians and Northeast Tigers basically treaded water on Saturday.
Northeast maintained its place atop the North Division baseball standings behind a Game 2 three-hitter by Baldwyn's Tanner Gaines, defeating ICC 7-0.
The host Indians won the first game 4-1.
"In the second game, we got ahead early, and Tanner Gaines competed," Northeast head coach Kent Farris said. "We're in good shape right now – it's all in our hands."
Northeast (25-14, 16-6) has one division doubleheader left, hosting third place Mississippi Delta on Saturday.
The Tigers have a one-game lead on second place Northwest but also hold the tiebreaker on the Rangers.
Gaines, from Baldwyn, was a big part of the Tigers maintaining first place, keeping the Indians (20-20, 10-10) bats under control for his seven innings of work.
Itawamba loaded the bases twice in the contest, the first time in the fourth inning, with Gaines notching a strikeout to end the frame.
Then in the fifth inning, a crucial over-the-should catch by rightfielder Will Robertson (Falkner) off the bat of Cameron Coker ended that threat.
"I don't think Tanner gave up a hit until the third or fourth inning," Farris said. "Then after that big strikeout, we came back and hit them with some runs."
Nursing a 1-0 lead, the Tigers began getting a little breathing room in the top of the fifth as two runs scored on three errors following one-out hits by Luke Stanley (Lafayette) and Heath Wood (Kossuth). Northeast then added a pair of runs in the sixth on a single by Stanley, and finally iced the win in the seventh on an RBI double by Robertson.
Game 1
Northeast jumped to a 1-0 lead in the second frame on a Justin Neal double, followed by a Chris Aichinger single.
But that did not deter ICC starter Ben Hudspeth (Tupelo), who only allowed one hit over his last five innings for the complete-game victory.
Itawamba bats contributed, beginning in the fifth as Cody Shrewsbury (Tupelo) led off with a double, eventually scoring on a pinch-hit sacrifice fly by Austin Welch (Hamilton).
Then in the sixth, the Indians took the lead with three runs, including a two-run single by William Goss (Tupelo).
"Ben Hudspeth threw a great game, as usual," Itawamba head coach Rick Collier said. "Then we finally pieced together some hits."
what's next?
Up next for Itawamba is a road doubleheader at Delta on Tuesday, then games against Holmes on Saturday.


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Found 12 Mentors.
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: I love to bake breads and pastry. It is my favorite pastime. I just want to help others love it as much as I do.
Lesson Learned: I\'ve learned that bread baking takes much trial and error. While you may be frustrated in the beginning, you have to be calm and persevre.
Tip: Do not let your bread rise over the reccomended rising time, it will fall and never rise again.
Kansas City
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: I would love to share my passion for homemade baking with more people. In this economy baking your own bread just makes more sense.
Lesson Learned: Its all about quality ingredients and technique.
Tip: Practice makes perfect bread.
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: As a passionate home baker and a former teacher, I am delighted to combine both skills.
Lesson Learned: With a basic sourdough recipe, there are numerous variations you can make. This type of baking takes a lot of time and patience.
Tip: If baking two batches of sourdough, you can start one in the evening, refrigerate it overnight to rise, and then start another batch the next morning. You end up with double the amount of bread with very little additional time.
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: I take such joy out of the activity of baking and sharing bread, and this would be a way to expand the joy.
Lesson Learned: Most people like bread, and most will adore it if it is homebaked, which is not all that hard to do. It is not at all expensive, but creates a sense of abundance when incorporated in a party or any meal. The variety possible is limitless.
Tip: It only takes as much time as you want to spend to make very good bread daily.
central Arkansas
Mentor In: Bread, Biscuit
Why I want to be mentor: I love to teach and I love to bake, sounds like a great combination. I have good cooking instincts as well.
Lesson Learned: Baking bread is time consuming but overall, not complicated. A few simple ingredients make a staple of society.
Tip: It is so cliche, but it is true. Use quality ingredients, it makes a difference.
Galley Wench
West Coast of Mexico or The Mountains of Arizona
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: To share my knowledge with others!
Lesson Learned: Sourdough is like a pet, it needs to be feed regularly and it\'s home needs to be kept clean!
Tip: I'm a purest when it comes to Sourdough Starters and would NEVER use commercial yeast!
gluten free baker
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: I am committed to sharing what I have learned with others in this suggestion so that they may begin eating wonderful breads.
Lesson Learned: I learned that it is possible to make gluten, dairy and egg free sourdough but that it must be treated a bit differently than wheat or rye sourdough.
Tip: It is important to feed the starter 2-3 times a day/
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: Bread baking is a wonderful craft, and I want to encourage and support newbies, and help taking the scary out of bread baking.
Lesson Learned: Don\'t go by the kitchen timer - trust your eyes and your feeling.
Tip: Your finger is one of the most important bread baking tools - the poke test trumps the kitchen timer.
United States
Mentor In: Bread
Why I want to be mentor: The art of bread making, especially yeast breads seems to be dying out with younger cooks. I would really like to see young cooks get back to baking homemade breads.
Lesson Learned: The biggest lesson I have learned is baking bread is a science. The ingredients have to absolutely accurate and measured correctly to turn out perfect bread.
Tip: Always level dry ingredients with a knife.
Latest Recipes Posted By Mentors
Recipes from Experienced Members
- Kürbisbrot - Pumpkin Bre.. by hans..
- Zoey's Oat Honey Bread by Skee..
- Sourdough Bread by Skee..
- Asiago (Parmesan) Ciabatt.. by kras..
- Bakery Style Sourdough Br.. by Gall..
- Rocky Road Bread by kras..
- Honey Flax Whole Wheat Br.. by Cook..
- Whole Wheat Bread by kras..
- White Bread by kras..
- Soft Pretzels by kras..


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Back In The Day: Sit Back and Unwind
There's an amusing scene in the Sandra Bullock rom-com, The Proposal, where Bullock's character and her fiancé (played by Ryan Reynolds) are trying to get to know each other better. She casually mentions that her first concert was Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock. Reynolds feigns ignorance, pretending not to know who they are, before admitting that he actually does and just wanted to hear her sing the lyrics. Both break into the 1988 hip-hop gem, "It Takes Two."
Speaking of rocking the microphone: our first hip-hop compilation comes out July 20. Entitled Back in the Day: A Summertime Hip-Hop Mix, it's a compilation of songs from what's known as "the golden age of hip-hop" (c. 1988-1996), and it plays like the same Bullock/Reynolds shared joy of singing along to a hip-hop classic.
Put together by my colleague Holly H., it's an addictive mixture of beats and rhymes meant for top-down car bumpin' in the long, hot summer. From DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince, the Beastie Boys and the Pharcyde to De La Soul, Queen Latifah and A Tribe Called Quest, it's a joint guaranteed to bring back a few memories and create some new ones. Check these vintage clips from J.J. Fad and Gang Starr.
The CD cover comes courtesy Seattle graffiti art legend Sneke One. In a special one-day creation, he mesmerized an audience of videographers, Starbucks people and hip-hop fans, taking his "style writing" to a new level with a case of aerosol cans and a huge blank canvas that quickly became a colorful burst of abstract magnificence. It was later photographed and sized to fit the cover.


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Skip to comments.Jim Caviezel: Shamelessly Catholic
Posted on 03/01/2004 5:01:54 PM PST by el_chupacabra
|Jim Caviezel: Shamelessly Catholic
|"I have been scourged, crucified, and, oh yes, struck by lightning. I know from whence I speak. That's why I came here to show this remarkable film that speaks for itself," Caviezel told the 1,400 young adults in attendance at the Fellowship of Catholic University Students conference. "I want all of you to have the courage to go out into this pagan world and shamelessly express your Catholic faith in public!"
|In This Article...
Unquenchable Fire
Driven into the Arms of God
J. C. Superstar
Unquenchable Fire
Driven into the Arms of God
In addition to the pain and the exhaustion, he recalled how waiting on the cross between takes became tedious. To fight the boredom, he listened to music on headphones. One particular song called "Above All" by Michael W. Smith helped him through his most difficult moments.
J. C. Superstar
Caviezel was on the set making the acclaimed Count of Monte Cristo.
The next thing Caviezel knows is that he is playing Jesus Christ in Gibson's newest movie, a film that no one knew he was making at the time.
In a passionate rendition of Gibson's battle cry from the Oscar-winning "Braveheart," Caviezel challenged Catholics to fight for the freedom that is real freedom from weakness and from the slavery of sin.
" Gibson wanted an actor with the initials J.C. who was 33 years of age. Jim Caviezel fit the description."
I have heard this story told by both Jim Caviezel and Mel Gibson in different interviews. Just after Jim got the part, he said, "by the way, my intials are J.C. [well, I assume Mel could see that, lol] and I'm 33 years old." Mel reportedly joked, "you're freakin' me out kid" or words to that effect.
When Caviezel was interviewed on the Tonight show, he told Leno how Mel had seen him in the movie, "The Thin Red Line" and it was Jim's performance in that role that prompted Mel to choose him to portray Christ. Mel has been quoted as saying that he saw in Jim both a "childlike innocence" and "other world" quality (I'm paraphrasing). I would imagine that all those things played a part.
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I was in love. He's such a cutie ;-)
I was in love. He's such a cutie ;-)
C O D, all this time I thought you were a guy!!! Honest! (you aren't right??? ;-)
Hey Jim, over here! My daughters will be eligible for marriage in just ten more years...
Actually I saw his wife, Kerri Caviezel, on "On the Rock" about a month ago. She is as beautiful inside as she is beautiful outside. She counsels girls who are considering abortion, says the rosary outside of clinics and speaks at high schools on the abortion subject.
PAGAN------Another word for DEMOCRAT!
There aren't any coincidences, are there? How refreshing to have someone like this doing TV and radio interviews instead of J-Lo.
Yes :-(
My second hope is that no matter how famous he gets he will always treat his wife well.
No??!! My screenname is female! I'm female!!
My name is actually Debbie :-)
Figures! Seriously, I'm happy for both of them. Do they have any kids?
I gave 4 copies of this out today at school!
Just talked to my mom tonight, and she ordered 10 more copies of 100 Questions and Answers on The Passion of the Christ. Have you seen it? (Catholic Exchange website.)
Tremendous book.
I Also have been talking to a colleague at school who has gotten away from the church, and she spent Sunday crying during the Mass she decided to attend.
If nothing else this movie has sure opened up a lot of people to the sacrifice of Jesus.
I am so tickled to be helping out others who may be searching.
BTW... Have you gotten The Passion of the Christ soundtrack? Amazing. Get it if you haven't.
Have a blessed night my friend!
Wonderful, Jay.
BTW... Have you gotten The Passion of the Christ soundtrack? Amazing. Get it if you haven't.
I haven't. Thanks, it's an excellent idea. Nighty night.
I got the soundtrack right away and played it in the car on my way home from the movie. Even my daughter liked it (well, she didn't complain, anyway!).
I also believe I heard his voice at one point in the movie. (It may have occured while Jesus was carrying the cross.) I heard the voice, among many, and thought, "Where have I heard that voice before?" It dawned on me a few minutes later that it sounded like Mel's voice.
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Breaking Rumor: Kings Have Tabled an Offer for Iginla
Kent Wilson
November 16 2010 07:33PM
According to Dean Millard on the Pipeline show, the Los Angeles Kings are charging hard after Jarome Iginla, offering recently demoted prospect Branyden Schenn as part of the package.
Schenn is the brother of Leaf Luke Schenn and a former 5th overall draft pick. He scored 99 points in the WHL last year, but struggled mightily in his NHL audition this year as a 19 year-old. He's a legit offensive prospect, but I'm guessing there would have to be more to the package for it to entice the Flames.
Interesting rumor to say the least.
November 16 2010, 07:37PM
Meh. Can they through in a keeper? Then I'll be keen.
Schenn and Teubert for Iggy? Is it enough from the Flames perspective? It would be the start of the rebuild for the Flames.
While I think the Kings are the logical destination, I really hate the thought of Iggy leaving - even if it's his only chance to win a cup.
While I think Sutter has the nuts to pull the trigger, I have faith Feaster would police the return value on someone like Jarome.
If it happens, the Flames better score some serious talent. Anything to soothe the inevitable heartache.
November 16 2010, 07:40PM
Who else would be part of the package? Teubert or Hickey and Calgary should take the deal and laugh all the way to the bank
November 16 2010, 07:41PM
It should be interesting to see who else they have tabled as well. I'm not on board the dump Iggy train just yet but it is worth the look see. If we can nab a true top six roster player, and maybe a 1st rounder to sweeten the deal, I would jump on board that train at the next stop!!
If there's any reality to this, I'm guessing the Flames would ask for some sort of roster player as well.
Wayne Simmonds?
If there's any reality to this, I'm guessing the Flames would ask for some sort of roster player as well.
But what type of roster player would the Kings be willing to give up. I would love Dustin Brown but there is no way he is involved. I can't see the Flames wanting Williams or Ponikarovsky, the only other forward is maybe Simmonds, and is he going to be a scoring power forward? I'm not convinced of that.
Schenn, simmonds and a first rounder?
Meh on the offer.
If I heard Malkin or Lecavalier though...
But not without those first round picks.
But seriously. I'd look hard at Handzus + Schenn
Williams is intriguing too. And Smyth as well.
All sorts of player + schenn endgames where the Flames come out big winners
No not Handzus he's nothing more than a third liner now-a-days. Schenn, Simmonds, and a 1st rounder. Remember the first roudner isn't going to be a top 10 anyways most likely because i'm expecting the Kings to make the playoffs, but a first rounder is a first rounder.
So if this happens and they move Iggy. Who is the next core player on his way out? Regehr? If they move Iggy, the rebuild is on.
Too busy thinking about how hockey games are won and lost to care about your particular definition of third-liner.
November 16 2010, 08:18PM
So if this happens and they move Iggy. Who is the next core player on his way out? Regehr? If they move Iggy, the rebuild is on.
white wont last the year regardless of iggy going, so white, but other then that regehr could still draw a high draft pick or a 2nd/3rd rounder and a top prospect, so that isnt a bad bet.
Never noticed Simmonds which is not a good point for him.
We need super established players to save the season if we are going to trade away Jerome
If it's true, I want Schenn, Teubert, and former Hitmen Martin Jones.
November 16 2010, 08:25PM
I've 'heard': Brayden Schenn, a 1st rounder and Thomas Hickey
From 'a source'. Take it or leave it.
The same source speculated that it may be multiplayer for the Flames (ie they are trading Jarome plus). I was told this early November.
So that's what I got.
I'd have to assume he (Jarome) has been shopped, right? This isn't Darryl negotiating with a single party?
November 16 2010, 08:37PM
Schenn is a fantastic prospect. Corey Pronman has him as the 10th best overall in HP2010.
As for the other player, I like Simmonds as a solid top-6 forward. With a middling zone start and better than average competition, he still came out slightly positive in Corsi last season.
One other benefit to the deal for the Flames is the cap relief. Given that they've got more cap money committed to next season than any other team, the flexibility makes a big difference. Iggy's cap hit is $7m. Simmonds has 800k on final year of EL deal and Schenn is making $3.1m.
According to hockeyfuture.com kings have the 2nd best prospect pool while calgary has the 30th. If they trade Iggy, screw getting a first round pick, they should rape Manchester and get a few top prospects
Schenn, Simmonds, and a 1st for Iggy. Do it.
November 16 2010, 08:46PM
If Iggy was being traded away then I don't see the point of getting back any older players. With him and Langks gone, the Flames would be a team in at least partial rebuild mode, and any player coming back with Schenn would preferably be under 25. I wouldn't want to see someone like Smyth who would likely be old beyond usefulness by the time the younger players were coming into their own.
November 16 2010, 08:53PM
I disagree with Calgary having the 30th best system. I've said it at other outlets, but I can name 5+ other systems easily I'd rate under them.
@Corey Pronman
So 27th is that much better?
Re: Simmonds - key is "beside Handzus". Langkow made Dawes look good after all.
Re: Smyth - what is wrong with older players? Still a tremendous EV player, Calgary wins huge with Smyth + Schenn
Re: rebuilds - Jesus. Didn't any of you read RCleave's post earlier (kudos btw, terrific).
Any Iggy-to-LA trade which does not bring back one of Smyth, Handzus or Williams (assuming the big 3 are untouchable) is a collosal failure straight up, because beyond making a bunch of money this org has made it clear that winning is a priority. And so it should be, only Oilers fans welcome losing hockey.
To quote the esteemeed RCleave, give me a goddamned break.
@Kent Wilson
Simmonds has played beside Handzus for awhile and held his own. *He's in the black* in terms of possession this year and his ZS is 45%. And he's 22 years old. He also has one of the highest QUAL COMP ratings on the club this year.
He's a quality player and his best years are ahead of him. And he's relatively cheap.
I lol'd. (double entendre)
I don't think that, as of right now our team gets any worse by losing Iginla.
Regher takes the C, Bourque moves up to the top line, Meyer draws back in, then Kotalik when healthy.
The way Iggy has played this year, as sad as it is, has been unnoticeable.
November 16 2010, 09:08PM
Dreger says false. Twitter. Wouldn't be the first time he is wrong though.
November 16 2010, 09:09PM
Hmm, interesting. I dont want Iggy to leave, and sure dont want him to go to LA. But any trade I believe should involve a 1st Rounder with the caveat to have the other team make the pick.
November 16 2010, 09:09PM
On one hand I'd love to see Jarome traded for some young guys, but then it really makes me disappointed that Sutter didn't do the same with Dion. Some solid players could have been had instead of Stajan, Hagman and White.
November 16 2010, 09:10PM
Clib may have it right - if you move Iggy, raid their farm. Starting with Schenn, though perhaps they see something in him that makes him expendable?....
I'd also consider a move featuring Iggy and White for Schenn, Simmonds, Hickey... But what do you do with the overage of forwards? You'd need to get a defenceman to replace White, in my scenario. You certainly relieve some cap burden...
Simmonds could turn out to be another Bourque. You never know. We still need a centre. Now. Moving Iggy for Schenn, others... Doesn't give us a centre. But it also doesn't smash existing chemistry on existing lines...
If they can somehow land Dustin Brown as part of this... Doubtful, I know. But this move, if they pickup Schenn, signals a rebuild, doesn't it?
As far as Regehr... He's not a problem. We need him.
We'll see if this rumour pans out. It'd be a sad day for Iggy and the Flames. But maybe the time is right.
November 16 2010, 09:11PM
new captain: Definately not Reggie. He's been a problem for years, a coach killer. If youre wanting to go "New" I think Gio has the talent and the potential.
November 16 2010, 09:12PM
Funny how many ex-Oilers are on the Kings. And they're first!
So if we trade Iggy then do we try and move Kipper? If this is truly a rebuild then he would probably fetch something good in return - a team like washington who just doesn't seem to do much in the playoffs might be interested. Of course would prefer to keep both and add a few other depth players - but not sure how we can get the offence. But if we lose Kipper and Iggy not much sunshine on the horizon.
@Kent Wilson
Yeah, angry R O with absurd claims had to show up sometime tonight. (Love you R O!)
That's a bit of a leap.
Experienced forwards with track records of success can make decent but otherwise unspectacular linemates look better.
I mean every time I watch the Kings it's Handzus making the plus plays - the retrieve, the dash, the soft dump, the retrieve, etc.
Though IIRC there was a wicked goal scored against us that I believ was Simmonds. Iggy like, on the LW with a wrister. Other thaan that...
November 16 2010, 09:19PM
R O what are your thoughts on Stoll? Is he worthy of any sort of comparison to Handzus the Hemsky Killer?
Possible expectations for a trade.
Peter Forsberg was traded from Philly to Nashville at age 34. Injuries had a part of it, but still showed a decline in points.
He was traded for Upshall (24 years old) first full year in the league, Ryan Parent(20 year old) former first rounder 2 years before. A First Rounder and a Third Rounder.
Keith Tkachuk in the same year at age 35 to Atlanta for Metropolit (just over 100 games) 2- First Rounders and a Second
Doug Weight to Carolina at 35 for Jesse Boulerice (28 years old) Mike Zigomanis (26 years old) rights to Magnus Kahnberg, First rounder, and 2-4th rounders
Paval Demitra to Minnesota - 32 years old for Patrick O'Sullivan (21 years old) and a first round pick
Robert Lang to Detroit - 35 - for Fleischmann (20 years old) First Rounder (Mike Green) and a 4th rounder.
Owen Nolan 31 - to Toronto for McCauley, Brad Boyes (21) and a First Rounder
R O what are your thoughts on Stoll? Is he worthy of any sort of comparison to Handzus the Hemsky Killer?
Stoll was originally a flames draft pick who couldnt come to terms and went back into the draft. Unlikely the Flames want him now.