text:
Where is the Flames goaltending at?
Kent Wilson
May 21 2013 02:01PM
- pic via resolute, wikimedia commons
For the first time in a decade, the Flames are entering the off-season without really knowing who their starter will be in October. Miikka Kiprusoff hasn't officially retired yet, but even if the 37 year old puckstopper decides he wants to play out the final season of his deal it would make sense for the club to use their compliance buy-out this summer to make his onerous $5.83M cap hit disappear.
Even if Kipper somehow sticks around, the Flames should be looking for its next starter this coming season - Calgary's mission is primarily exploratory next season, so it wouldn't benefit the org to stick to the tried and true even if it is an option.
So if not Kipper, then who? Here's how Calgary's crease depth chart looks heading into the draft and free agency:
1.) Karri Ramo
The former Lightning draft pick can't be signed by the Flames until July 5th, but is a good bet to be inked by Feaster and company as soon as possible. Ramo will be 27 on July 1 and is coming off his 4th straight season as a starter in the KHL for Avangard Omsk. Ramo struggled to find his footing in the NHL as a youngster, but has emerged as a legitimate tender across the pond in his mid-20s. His SV% has been north of .920 in each of his last three seasons, culminating in a career best .929 save in 44 games this year. That was the 8th best SV% in the league this season, or 5th best if you narrow the field to goalies who played more than 20 games.
Ramo's save rate over his last three seasons (or 3,423 shots) works out to .926, which is a healthy number in the second best league in the world. Unfortunately we don't have enough information to decipher a good KHL-NHL translation factor for goalies, so it's anyone's guess if Ramo will be able to maintain those sort of rates in North America. That said, Ray Emery and Sergei Bobrovsky are two recent examples of guys who played well in Russia (.926 and .932 in a limited sample) and then went on to post similar save stats in the NHL afterwards.
Ramo is the favorite right now to be the Flames starter next year. There's little doubt he'll get a long look, whatever else happens.
2.) Joey MacDonald
A career back-up who has bounced around various teams and the AHL over the course of his career, MacDonald gamely held the fort for the Flames down the stretch in Calgary, causing the team to re-up him for one more year. MacDonald is a veteran and...that's really all you can say about him. His career SV% in the NHL is .903. His save percentage for the Flames this season was .902. These are replacement level rates at best.
There's no reason to think he'll improve on that all of sudden or grab the reigns as the club's putative starter. MacDonald is established enough that he won't cause mass panic on the ice or in the front office should the starter go down to injury, but he's also not the guy who will provide real redundancy in the depth chart if a guy like Ramo proves to be inadequate.
It's a 50/50 bet whether MacDonald ends up as the Flames back-up or in the AHL next season. His one year deal is below the new CBA cut-off for retained cap dollars, meaning if he goes down to the farm his dollars won't count towards the Flames cap number. He will likely be considered the favorite as option B unless another guy can outplay him and take the job.
3.) Reto Berra
The biggest wildcard is the 26-year old out of Switzerland. Berra is coming off a very big world championships, managing a .967 SV% in four games. His save rate in thw Swiss elite league for Biel was less impressive at .906, but it's hard to know how that relates to the NHL.
Berra has spent his entire career across the pond, so is a totally untested commodity at this level. Sometimes those goalies turn out to be buried treasures who can immediately step in and make a difference (see: Jonas Hiller). And sometimes they fizzle out completely (see: Jonas Gustavsson).
As such, Berra could end up anywhere between battling for the starters role with Ramo to fighting for playing time in the AHL. We won't really know what he's made of until we see him.
4.) Joni Ortio
Although it seems like he has been around forever, Joni Ortio is just 22-years old and last year was the first time in his career he was a starter for a professional club. Ortio played 54 games for HIFK Helsinki in the SM-Liiga and managed to stop 91.7% of the pucks he saw. By many accounts, Ortio was only reason the team won the game on many nights, which established him as a legitimate goalie in Finland.
His first attempt at the AHL level in 2011-12 didn't go well, with being lit up in 9 appearances. That said, any goalie can look bad over that small a sample, especially a 21 year old getting his feet wet in a new country and league. Ortio is the youngest of the Flames established, pro goalies this season, but also the most untested. There's a good chance the team will give him a shot to win the AHL starters role to see if he can continue to develop.
4.) Laurent Brossoit
After three rather successful campaigns in the WHL, former 6th round pick Laurent Brossoit is poised to turn pro with the Flames this coming year. The Surrey BC native turned 20 in March and having spent the last two years as a top-10 puckstopper for the Edmonton Oil Kings, doesn't really have any reason to linger in junior.
Like many junior players, Brossoit has a nice resume heading into pro but the real test will be how he fares against grown men. Like most skaters, this is the step that many 'tenders fail to take (see: Matt Keetley, Leland Irving, etc.) so it's an open question whether Brossoit will continue to impress or struggle to take the next step.
5.) Jon Gillies
After winning a goal medal at the World Junior championships as USA's back-up, Gillies was named the national rookie of the year for collegiate hockey and second team all-star. Gillies surpassed all reasonable expectations for a freshman goalie, quickly becoming Provdience's starter at the onset of the season and then going on to post an incredible .931 SV% in 35 games. The Friar's back-up, Russ Stein, only played four games and managed an .879 SV% in contrast.
Gillies is only 19 years old and still has a lot of proving to do before he can be considered an option at the pro level. That said, he's off to a tremendous start.
Others (Internal)
Leland Irving, Barry Brust, Danny Taylor
The organization's trio of AHL goaltenders this season probably won't be returning thanks to the influx of other options (Ortio, Berra, Brossoit). All three guys are pending free agents and old enough to not be terribly interested in battling it out with other guys who might be considered more worthwhile organizational assets in the eyes on management.
Leland Irving is the best bet to be let go outright. The Flames re-inked him to a one-year "prove yourself" deal last summer. Unfortunately, the former first rounder took a big step backwards by first losing out to Taylor and Brust in the AHL and then getting beat up in the NHL when Kiprusoff went down with injury. By acquiring MacDonald and signing Taylor to an NHL contract, the team made it very clear they have no real confidence in Irving and so will likely be walking away from him this year.
Others (External)
It's possible this summer that a number of decently skilled puckstoppers find themselves without homes in the NHL. Ilya Bryzgalov and Roberto Louongo could find themselves at the other end of a compliance buy-out, while a team like the Anaheim Ducks may consider trading Jonas Hiller with the Victor Fasth enjoyed in his rookie season.
MA Fleury could also find himself rich but unemployed after his second straight playoff implosion, although he's so mediocre I'd counsel the Flames to give him a wide berth. The aging but still functional Nik Backstrom might make it to free agency as well. He could be a good stop gap for the Flames, especially if it doesn't look like Ramo will be able to be a true "1A" option. I wouldn't be surprised is Jaro Halak is shopped around by the Blues as well.
Nothing is overly certain about the Flames moving forward, least of all the goaltending. The organization isn't totally without options, clearly, but there's also no clear guy any NHL GM would feel comfortable betting money on. If a legitimate NHLer becomes available via either free agency or buy-out, it wouldn't surprise me to see the team investigate that option, at least so they can a get a body who will be able to platoon with Ramo at best or take over if NHL hockey proves to be over his head again.
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Sing up here.
I see the Flames lack of certainty between the pipes as a real positive going forward. Rather than being stuck playing an expensive tender whose numbers were declining, because he was "the guy," they can take some flyers on guys who may or may not work out, in the hopes of stumbling into some above average goaltending. With how unpredictable goaltender production is from year to year short term bets seem like the best plan until we see what we have in the younger tenders. Maybe the Flames luck into a Craig Anderson or Mike Smith but if not at least they won't have significant cap dollars tied up in mediocre goaltending. Basically they need to focus on a Vokun strategy rather than a MAF strategy.
Even if we're not sure who the starter is going to be next year, the one place the organization seems to have some depth going forward is in goal. I suppose all of our potential prospects could wash out over the next year or two, leaving us with MacStarter or whoever we can fish out of free agency/buyouts, but I feel like out of Ortio, Brossoit and Giles we're likely to get a capable starter. I suppose that's dependent on the organization doing a better job of developing our goalies. I feel like the team and management blew any chance of making something out of Irving when they made it clear in their play and actions that they didn't really want him in net.
And oh yeah, I hope the Flames don't rush out to sign an overpriced, aged goalie if Ramo and Berra don't look good from day one. I can accept (and would prefer) another season of drafting high versus wasting dollars and assets in a rushed attempt to make the playoffs.
I see the Flames lack of certainty between the pipes as a real positive going forward. Rather than being stuck playing an expensive tender whose numbers were declining, because he was "the guy," they can take some flyers on guys who may or may not work out, in the hopes of stumbling into some above average goaltending. With how unpredictable goaltender production is from year to year short term bets seem like the best plan until we see what we have in the younger tenders. Maybe the Flames luck into a Craig Anderson or Mike Smith but if not at least they won't have significant cap dollars tied up in mediocre goaltending. Basically they need to focus on a Vokun strategy rather than a MAF strategy.
I agree with this. Cap flexibility is at a premium. Take some chances on some guys, but keep the deals short and dollars low. Hope to hit a home run but at least if you strike out you're not negatively impacted down the road.
I'm surprised a guy like Ray Emery isn't included here. Granted he won't win any humanitarian awards but he's had a couple excellent seasons (behind a terrific squad but Chris Osgood has illustrated that doesn't always matter). I think it could be a great fit.
He would probably come relatively cheap, has quality experience. UFA come July 1, I'd take him on a 1 or 2 year deal. Situation like Calgary where he could easily be the guy would probably appeal to him
The Flames are in an outstanding position in net!!! To bad the Hockey World fails to recognize this (If one more person says we are wasting a first by drafting Zachary Fucale in June) I'm going to loose my mind!!!!!
The Flames literally have the top college prospect and the best or second best goaltender in Major Junior. Not too mention two of the standout goalies from the World Championships and if we were going to take a goalie then let's take the better one in a lower round as Tristan Jerry is twice the goalie Zachary Fucale is in my opinion. Anyone who thinks Fucale is a first rounder hasn't watched the Top Prospects game or the Memorial Cup!! Talk about playing in a favorable situation and not showing up at key times!!
Kipper kept us out of drafting a top pick the last two or three seasons, please let us develop a goalie with the team rather than buying one to inflate our wins and finish in 9th place again for years to come. If Ortio, Barra, McDonald, Brossiot and Gillies cannot get it done then we should not be blaming the goalie, the ONLY position the Flames are set in for the next couple of seasons is between the pipes.
I think what we have is what we'll go into next year with. The only question is do the Heat roll with 3 goalies or does someone start their NA pro-career in the ECHL?
Not a huge fan of burying top prospect tendys in the ECHL. Devan Dubnyk had a steeeeep learning curves and spent years playing in the AHL because he had to get over bad habits developed in the ECHL. Lets go with Brossoit and either Brust or Taylor, bye bye Irving!!
Brust or Taylor? Why would the team have either of those guys?...
Ramo MacDonald Berra Ortio Brossoit
... those are guys that they Flames have (or hopefully will have in the case of Ramo) under pro contract for next year. 5 guys, two teams, 4 spots... somethings gotta give. Personally, I think I'd be more in favor of having someone start the year in the ECHL if the choice is starter in the ECHL vs. not even dressing in the AHL. I'd rather all of them get their reps in is all and I don't trust Ward to make sure three guys get a suitable amount of work in.
May 21 2013, 03:45PM
I have a question about sample sizes, sv% and drilling down to ability, as I'm not sure how replacement level ability is determined. Take Reto Berra as example:
If his club sv% is .906 over larger sample size, would the expectation be that his .967 regress to that lower number? Does sample size provide the clarity to determine ability alone?
In baseball I think there is a stat for pitching independent of defense. How good is the pitcher when you remove good or bad fielding.
How good is the goalie I dependent of good or bad team quality?
How does MacDonald do with good teams?
I'm curious if there is a way to measure goalie stas with say, team corsi or shot quality to better assess goalie ability. I don't trust trad sv% gaa.
I would be content enough with Ramo and MacDonald suiting up for the Flames and Ortio, Berra, and Brossoit in the minors. If Ramo struggles and MacDonald plays like he always has, then the Flames should get a pretty good pick. If Ramo proves he's a legitimate NHL starter, then that's just terrific and the Flames will be set for the next few years. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect one of Ortio, Berra, or Brossoit to step up and be a real #1 in the AHL this year and (ideally) get promoted to back-up the year after. Factor in Gilles and we may be set in the crease for the next decade. I'd say the Flames are in a pretty good position as far as goaltending is concerned. Now they just need to build the team in front of the goaltender.
@Jeff Lebowski
"In baseball I think there is a stat for pitching independent of defense. How good is the pitcher when you remove good or bad fielding."
There is, it's called FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) It basically parcels out anything that affects a pitching performance that isn't 100% attributable to the pitcher (Strikeouts, Walks, Hit by Pitch, Homeruns). And uses those numbers in a formula to calculate how good a pitcher is. There is a variation called xFIP which also attempts to include variations in the HR/FB (home-run to Flyball) ratio... but for simplicity I prefer FIP.
There is no equivalency for goalies... actually the SV% probably is the equivalency for goalies since it's a measure of save rate of shots on goal and thus already removes the actions of the defense from the equation. Or if you want to go further it would be the shoot-out/breakaway sv% since that would completely remove perimeter shots (due to defense)... but then you're removing a goalies core performance and that isn't good. I suspect what you're looking for would be a scoring chance sv%... unfortunately the NHL lacks a standard definition of what constitutes a scoring chance.
Save percentage really is the best means of grading goalie performance.
More on this topic from our fine hosts: http://flamesnation.ca/2011/11/9/can-teams-win-by-taking-higher-quality-shots
May 21 2013, 05:47PM
Am I the only one who would try and keep Irving around? I wasn't blown away with him this year, but the entire team was thoroughly underwhelming. I'd personally rather keep him than Taylor or Brust. While they may have outplayed him in the minors, I see more promise from Irving.
@Freakin' Saprykin
and where, in your opinion, does Irving fit in among Ramo, Berra, MacDonald, Ortio, and Brossoit? The only one of the previous five who isn't currently under contract next season is Ramo, where Irving would have to be re-signed.
This might just be me, but I think 6 goalies vying for 4 positions is a little over-redundant, especially since it has become abundantly clear where Irving stands with this organization.
@Jeff Lebowski
Baseball is an incredibly linear sport that is really easy (for the mathematically inclined) to break down into pure statistics. When a pitcher throws the ball, EXACTLY two players matter. If the batter connects, there are a series of binary - at most trinary - decisions that follow. Infield, outfield, out of park. Catch or fail. Good accuracy/bad accuracy. Chose right base to throw to. Yes, this adds up to a LOT of variables and mathematical complexity, but because the decisions are so simple indivually and there are so few of them on a given play, statistics become predictable with sufficient samples.
Hockey isn't the same. You could argue that if a goalie couldn't make a save it doesn't count against him, but WHY couldn't he make the save? Could he have been an inch in a different direction and had the ability to make the save? Should he have been? Would another goalie have been mistakenly been in the wrong position and thus made the save by luck?
Ultimately, SV% measures skill over a large enough sample size because the white noise (luck) will get ground out. You'll still have issues using these numbers based on system (Bryzgalov in Phoenix seemed pretty damn good...) but SV% is still the best comparator, at the least because it DOES remove white noise. It makes two goalies in similar circumstances directly comparable.
Ultimately, two things truly matter in any sport: decision making process and reaction speed. I'ma programmer, so I compare this to a search algorithm. Decisions will be made based on minute factors that are observed, based on an internal decision tree that is instinctual. Reaction time purely increases output. 5/100s of a second faster reaction time than your opponent means you get to make your decision first. If we could measure these two things (the first nearly impossible, the second doable) we could make vastly better decisions about players.
Viktor Fasth might be another example of a player who was overseas and has made the transition smoothly (seemingly). His GAA and SV% this season (2.18 and 92.1) are pretty much in line with his past numbers over in Sweden. Granted he was behind a Ducks team riding the percentages, but still.
I wonder if the Flames can get anything at this point for Irving. Would there be a team interested in his negotiation rights? Perhaps the Flames can still get a 6th or 7th rounder. Hell, Washington got a 1st AND a 2nd for Varlamov and he was going to bolt from Washington one way or another.
I would be surprised if the Flames don't start with a Ramo/McDonald tandem. In the AHL I could see them going with a Broissoit/Ortio tandem, and could also see them signing Taylor to a 1 year deal to play in the A. I don't think they go after a goalie, but they might.
With the 6th overall pick, the Flames select a goalie. I know Kent would support this...
I would be surprised if the Flames don't start with a Ramo/McDonald tandem. In the AHL I could see them going with a Broissoit/Ortio tandem, and could also see them signing Taylor to a 1 year deal to play in the A. I don't think they go after a goalie, but they might.
With the 6th overall pick, the Flames select a goalie. I know Kent would support this...
And Berra just magically disappears, I guess.
I like the Emery comment.... But is Macdonald not the same thing? a proven NHL Backup, with some upside who did nothing but impress in a less than stellar situation going down the stretch. I was really impressed with Berra's performance at the World Championships. He showed poise and great composure when called upon and I would like to see what he can do in North America. Also think that Ramo has played well enough in the KHL to deserve a good look in the Show.... Again. The situation he is coming into cant be any worse than the one he faced with a young inexperienced Tampa squad years ago?.... Can it? The first 4-5 picks of the draft have to be focused on impact skaters.
Berra goes to the ECHL. His numbers have sucked in the Swiss league, yes he had great numbers in the WHC, but he played 3 crap teams. (CZE, BLR, DEN). I don't know how his numbers will get any better going from a lower league to a higher league.
I guarantee you the Flames give Berra a look in the NHL. If he can't cut it, then yes, demotion--to the AHL. He's 26, just starting in NA, and the Flames' scouts believe in him. Also, Hartley is familiar with him having coached in the Swiss league. Berra has a reputation over there (though looking at the stats there doesn't appear to be any particular reason why). There's no way he starts in the ECHL. Certainly not when you have Brossoit going straight to the AHL (a player with a far longer development path).
Emery is a good inclusion. I kind of expect the Hawks to re-sign him if they can though.
Agreed Kent. I'm hoping Crawford / Emery force their hand and both want to be the guy.
Devin, phenonmenal explanation on why grading goalies is so difficult, versus baseball. Hockey is so chaotic, while baseball has a standardized reset after each action (pitch). I still feel that quality of team in front of the goalie, system, etc play a large role (see goalies playing for Ken Hitchcock). Though as Kent has explained, its proven near impossible to quantify.
RTK, while I don't mind Macdonald, at least Emery has shown in the past he can be the guy. I think he is a significant upgrade over any of the current unproven options and Joey Mac, though I do see your point. Also, could very well see the Hawks resigning him, as Crawfords meltdown a season ago is still very fresh in managements mind. But if Emery does want a chance to be a number one, I'm not sure he could find a better fit out there. Anotehr side note is that his goalie coach, Eli Wilson, is a Calgary guy who runs his company out of the city, so there is some familiarity. Not sure what, if any, impact that would have.
Regardless, I like the flexibility they have in net and seeing how difficult it is to predict goalies, I dont't mind the shotgun approach of bringing in a few with pro experience, drafting a few later rounds and hoping you hit a home run. That seems more logical to me than draftibng a goalie high and grooming that single person to be the next number one, given the volatility of the postion
Yeah, I think if anyone plays in the ECHL it'll end up being Brossoit. Pretty sure that they're not going to have a veteran back-up like MacDonald start in the AHL either. I think the Goalie situation will round out as Ramo-MacDonald with the Flames, Berra-Ortio witht the Heat, and Brossoit with the Salmon Kings/Grizzlies.
Officially scratch Taylor. He's going to Sweden:
I wish the dude luck. I think he's probably a decent goalie who should have gotten a bit longer look in the show with Calgary.
Those translations are going to give me a whole new hockey vocabulary. "Kept zero" is my new favourite. I guess the Flames scouts/coaches didn't pick up on his "nimble picking and great skill in the game after the ice cover".
I too wish him well. I don't know why they wouldn't have given him a bit more opportunity.
Yeah, I doubt MacDonald gets sent to the A, especially since the org. seemed so enamored with him. MacDonald and Ramo doesn't really inspire me with a whole lot of confidence though...
I don't think the team is so enamored with him personally I think their enamored with having a goalie with "NHL experience" who'll work on a cheap ticket. Retaining MacDonald is less about MacDonald then it is about the rest of the guys on the team... basically I think it's a locker-room thing.
My personal hope is that MacDonald is only kept around long enough for Ortio or Berra to show themselves as worthy of the back-up job and is then found a home elsewhere.
Fedor Fedin @FedFedRMNB 2h Top prospect Valery Nichushkin announces he'll sign in the NHL after draft. Tells R-Sport: "Dynamo told me I can go if I want" http://en.rsport.ru
This was a comment in an Oiler blog. Anyone else heard this? Trading up suddenly less of a necessity?
flip the blues pick back to them for halak straight up. go with a proven nhl stopper. problem solved.
Re: the survey. What kind of ridiculous series of unfortunate events would have to befall all the other more experienced goaltenders for the org to have Brossoit starting next year? Some kind of terrible goaltender plague? A serial killer targeting Flames goaltenders? Multiple freak meteorite strikes?
May 22 2013, 10:18AM
Re: the survey. What kind of ridiculous series of unfortunate events would have to befall all the other more experienced goaltenders for the org to have Brossoit starting next year? Some kind of terrible goaltender plague? A serial killer targeting Flames goaltenders? Multiple freak meteorite strikes?
A zombie apocalypse
you forgot Kipper in the poll
Training camp should be interesting, but I don't see the Flames starting the season with two 'unknown NHL' goalies. so I think McDonald is all ready penciled in. Its likely Irving is gone to, so with the departure of Taylor we at least have some spots in the minors.
@Kent Wilson
Freddy! Freddy! Youtube has this as his "best save". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp0F7Rw3bxQ
if the goal is to make the playoffs as flyin j has stated none of these flat tires can do it. trade for halak at least you are competitive. realy people berra? echl tender at best.
Yeah that's been making the rounds today. We'll see if it improves his draft stock or not.
I think it will, provided that he's as emphatic in private as he was in public. He also said that he's spoken with the Lightning and with the Preds... we'd only need Barkov to slip one spot if that's true and would have a for sure pick of whichever one of Lindholm or Monahan that we want if he doesn't. Great potential development for us.
May 22 2013, 12:32PM
Time to put Jay's statement about making the playoffs next year to rest. Not gonna happen, and that is why Halak will not be required in Calgary next season.
Good news on the Russian. See what happens when someone actually talks to a prospect, rather then just assuming you know all you need to know about them from what you've read?
May 22 2013, 02:03PM
I lived through the Freddy Brathwaite era. Anything can happen.
Has there ever been a Flames player as universally liked as Brathwaite who was also borderline terrible?
I loved Freddie, but also knew he was in WAY over his head.
May 22 2013, 02:30PM
Hmm...Rocky Thompson? Oliwa? Nieminen? Although Ville was actually a legit NHLer for awhile.
Probably should have excluded TG's, but Brathwaite stands out for me as a guy every Flames fan I knew liked, but they also recognized that really he wasn't a legit NHL 'tender.
Jim Peplinksi? (he wasn't actually 'terrible')
Tim Hunter? (another goon)
Neil Sheehy? (worth his weight in gold though for the abuse he dished out to Oilers, but wasn't a very effective player)
Nick Fotiu?
Looks like the Canucks are firing AV. Good, I can't think of a single available coach (with the possible exception of Tippet) that would be better then him.
Wrong guy falling on the sword for the early playoff ouster. IMO
Indeed. If ever we needed proof that Gillis wasn't that good of a GM... there it is.
Maybe the next guy will think the Sedins are hard minutes forwards.
I bet they get Tippet...


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Peter,Does this qualify as a jinks?
I love what they call the Garlic Buttery Sauce.
That's hilarious Norma. The first thought that came to mind when I saw those breadsticks you posted is....Pizza Pizza! Little Ceaser's Bread sticks. I ate a lot of it prior to college when I worked there. I also remember the cheese blend and when I asked the manager why they mix in munster cheese, his response is that the munster is what gives the cheese the stretch. The garlic butter is easy to make. A bit of butter, fresh or powdered garlic, and a bit of OO to keep the butter from completely solidifying at room temps. If you use gresh garlic, dice it really fine and heat it with the butter. It's not exactly the same, but it is good and tastes better IMO. Just go by taste. Don't be afraid on this one Norma. You can do it!
I'm confused? Does LC have both crazy bread and breadsticks?
Norma, at the time that I worked there almost 20 years ago, I did like the breadsticks quite a bit. I haven't eaten a Caesar's breadstick in quite some time, but I wouldn't hestiate either if presented with a fresh hot box of them. Occassionally when I'm in the mood, I'll eat Pizza Hut bread sticks with sauce or a little personal pan pizza which I am fond of. It's fried, greasy, and crunchy. What is there not to like? I did try the mozz and munster combo, but it was over 2 years ago and I don't remember much about it. I know I didn't dislike it but didn't think it was special either. Next time I make pizza, I'll try to remember to pick some up and give it another try. The garlic butter is easy to make and quite delicious for bread sticks, pizza bones, or to drizzle over garlic knots. I forgot to mention to add a tiny bit of grated parmesan into the garlic butter to add another level of texture and flavor. Chau


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The Bookcliff muzzleloaders meat shoot will be held on Dec. 9 at 10 a.m. at the Bookcliff Muzzleloaders range in Price. Entry fee is $15 per shooter. For more information call Doc Atwood at 435-637-2923.
A fundraiser benefit will be held for Kayden Gale, son of Josh and Tammy Gale, grandson of Garth and Lori Labrum, of Orangeville, who had a kidney transplant on Nov. 14. The benefit will be held Dec. 1 at Cottonwood Elementary beginning at 4 p.m. with the book and yard sale. Dinner at 5 p.m. and auction at 7 p.m. To donate, call Carol at 748-2481 or 748-2281.
Ferron/Price Ranger Districts: (435) 384-2372/(435) 637-2817. Permits go on sale Nov. 20. Permits are $5, one permit per household, one tree only. Permits can be purchased at the Price Ranger District Office, 599 West Price River Drive, Price, and the Ferron Ranger District Office, 115 West Canyon Road, Ferron. Office hours are Monday through Friday 8 a.m.- 5 p.m., any species of tree may be cut, except Ponderosa Pine.
Ferron City welcomes everyone to come and join in an evening of celebration at the Fairgrounds metal building from 6-8 p.m. on Dec. 4. Santa will visit, a cookie contest, sing-a-long, entertainment, craft booths for children, and refreshments. For more information of if you would like to help contact city hall at 384-2350.
The Old Mill Camp DUP of Ferron has the books "A Peach of a Place," a history of Ferron, and afghans depicting the historic sites in Ferron. Would make great gifts. Call Mila at 384-3267 or Janice at 384-2325 to order.
The Interamerican University studies Institute will offer two programs to Costa Rica and Pura Vida this summer. The programs are open to students between the ages of 15-17 who will have completed two years of high school Spanish by June. Scholarships are also available. Applications are due by Feb. 9, 2007. For more information call IUSI at 800-345-4874 or visit www.iusi.org.
Huntington City will have Santa at the Huntington Elementary on Dec. 19. Pre-schoolers can come and see Santa from 11:30-12:30 p.m.
Is addiction ruining the holiday spirit? Are you losing everything that is important to you? Something can be done about it. Call Narconon at 800-468-6933 or log onto www.stopaddiction.com.
The Rocky Mountain School of Baseball announces its first annual Turkey Ball camp on Nov. 24-25 in Mesquite, Nev. The camp is for individuals or teams from ages 7-18, who will be divided into age groups. The collegiate and professional staff will include players, coaches, and scouts. For more information or to register visit www.rmsb.com or call 1-877-272-0862.
The Ballet Repertory Ensemble will be holding the following performances at the Rio Theater in Helper on Nov. 29 at 7:30 p.m.; Salute to Broadway on Feb. 23-24; Spring Contemporary Concert on April 25 and 27; Spring Classical Concert on April 26 and 28.
Justin Harris was lost and injured in Baptist Draw in Emery County. The Search and Rescue was called out to rescue him. His story will be told on Nov. 23 and Nov. 24. The program entitled "I Shouldn't Be Alive: Nightmare Canyon" will air on the Discovery Channel.
Habitat for Humanity of Castle Country is accepting home applications. Appicants must complete 20 hours of work for the group, have been turned down for a conventional home loan and have a stable income. Volunteers and board members are needed. Donations may be sent to HHCC, P.O.Box 724, Price, Utah 84501. Residents may volunteer for workdays, donate aluminum cans or obtain applications by going to their new office located at 151 South 700 East, the All Scrapped Up building or by calling 435-637-9701.
Food handler's classes will be held on Dec. 14 at 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. at the Health Department, 25 West Main in Castle Dale. They will also be held on Dec. 6 at 9 a.m., 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. at the Health Department, 28 South 100 East in Price. From more info call 637-3671 in Price or 381-2252 in Castle Dale.
State History announces the 2007 Utah Prehistory Week Poster Contest. The winning poster will be professionally printed and distributed nationwide to promote Utah's exciting past, there will also be cash awards. Posters should be submitted no later than Jan. 1, 2007 to the Antiquities Section of State History, 300 South Rio Grande Street, Salt Lake City, Ut 84101. For more info go to www.history.utah.gov, or contact Renae Weder at 801-533-3529.
The 2007 TRUTH from Youth Anti-tabacco advertising contest is giving fourth and fifth graders the opportunity to become a big-time producer. You can create a TV, radio or billboard/poster advertisement with an anti-tobacco message. Contest deadline is March 9. For more information visit www.youthagainsttobacco.com or call 1-877-220-3466.
The American Legion Post 73 is sponsoring two raffles to raise funds to help needy military families. Tickets can be purchased at Jones Ace Hardware, Desertview Federal Credit Union, Maverik in Huntington and Castle Dale, BK's Stop and Shop, Wards 4X4, Hart's, and Magnusons. Be generous, the families need your support.
A local veterans employment representative visits the Castle Dale DWS Office the first Wednesday of each month. Appointments can also be arranged on other days by contacting Steve Wilkinson at (435) 636-2343. The LVER is also available Monday through Friday at Department of Workforce Services, 475 West Price River Drive, for questions about VA benefits, assistance with VA applications, employment assistance and other veterans issues. If you have questions about your benefits or eligibility for benefits, contact Steve Wilkinson at 636-2343.
Narconon is a nonprofit public benefit organization that specializes in helping people with drug or alcohol addictions offers FREE professional assessments, advice and referrals to more than 11,000 treatment centers nationally. Drug addiction can be overcome and Narconon can help by calling (800) 556-8885 or visit www.drugrehab.net
Every second and fourth Monday from 11 a.m.-2 p.m. a free legal clinic will be held at the Price Court House. Call Utah Legal Services at 1-800-662-1563 to set up an appointment.
A tip line has been introduced in Emery County. The Emery County drug task force is requesting help from the residents to report any suspicious drug activity. The number is 381-2888, and all callers will remain anonymous. It is very important for citizens to be actively involved in helping remove drugs users and pushers from Emery County.
The Three Wishes Inc. Program makes available power wheelchairs to senior citizens and the permanently disabled at no cost to the recipient, if they qualify. Call toll free at 1-800-817-1871.
Each year hundreds of children in Emery and Carbon counties become wards of the juvenile court system due to child abuse, neglect or abandonment. The child welfare system can only devote so much time and attention to each individual case and, consequently, to each individual child. CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) Volunteers are ordinary men and women who find it in their hearts and their schedules to help these abused and neglected children. Those interested in volunteering should contact Kerrie, the CASA coordinator at 435-381-5595.
All Medicare recipients should now be aware that if they suffer from conditions such as arthritis, cardiovascular disease, and respiratory disorders, and have difficulty walking or propelling a standard wheelchair, they maybe eligible to receive an electric wheelchair paid for by Medicare. For information on Medicare eligibility contact Gregory at 1-800-810-2877.
The in home Rx programs makes available breathing medications and nebulizers to patients who may have asthma, emphysema or COPD at no cost to the recipient, if they qualify. Call 1-800-344-5764 or visit the website www.inhomerx.com for more information on the details of this program.
The Senior Mobility Program makes available to senior citizens and the permanently disabled, power electric wheelchairs at no cost to the recipient, if they qualify. Call 1-800-451-0971 to see if you qualify.
Utah Valley Cancer Center, located at Utah Valley Regional Medical Center has a new toll-free phone number. Anyone can call 1-866-549-3800 to schedule an appointment, get information about local cancer support groups or to find out more about IHC cancer services and physicians. Hours are 8 a.m.-5 p.m.
The Senior Wheels USA Program makes available power (electric) wheelchairs to senior citizens (65 years and older) and the permanently disabled at no cost to the recipient, if they qualify. Call toll free at 1-800-246-6010.
The Wheelchair Foundation, Intermountain Healthcare, and the George S. and Dolores Dore Eccles Foundation are partnering to distribute free wheelchairs to disabled Utahns. Persons interested in getting a free wheelchair can call 1-877-387-3839, or apply at www.wheelchairfoundation.org/utah
Donations are needed from Emery County residents to the Emery Chapter of the Salvation Army which provides emergency assistance for the people of Emery County as well as people traveling through the area. Mail donations to the Emery County Sheriff's Office, Box 281, Green River, Utah 84525 or Emery County Sheriff's Office, Box 817, Castle Dale, Utah 84513. For information, contact Cheryl Keener at 435-564-3432.
Attention, union meeting for local 6363 will be held the third Wednesday of every month at the District 22 office in Price. The meeting will begin at 10 a.m.
Girl Scouts need leaders in Emery County. Call Nina Green at 800-678-7809 to volunteer.


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In an age of smartphones, tablets, email, text messaging, Twitter, and Facebook, the idea of putting pen to paper, addressing an envelope and affixing a postage stamp to it seems hopelessly out of date. But as anyone who attended the Legislative Conference on Feb. 2 can tell you, there's one group that still appreciates receiving mail: the New Jersey State Board of Education.
The four board members who attended the most recent NJEA Legislative Conference made it clear that they read those letters.
Board member Joe Fisicaro credited the letters he received with alerting him to concerns about a questionable charter school in Cherry Hill. He credited the letters he received from members in Burlington County with changing his mind on certain aspects of professional development regulations.
Fisicaro even took time to note his appreciation that the letters were handwritten and included a phone number.
Board member Mark Biedron cracked a smile as he said, "We received a lot of letters on this…" when talking about teacher participation in professional development planning.
What the State Board of Education thinks is no insignificant matter. It is the board's responsibility to approve the regulations drafted by New Jersey Commissioner of Education Chris Cerf and his staff. Letters to the board on those proposals gives the board a grassroots perspective they may not hear from Cerf. This empowers board members to ask legitimate questions about proposed regulations. Questions that may not have occurred to the board members as only three of them— Joe Fisicaro, Edie Fulton and Dorothy Strickland—ever taught at the K-12 level, and none are currently working in a public school setting.
This year the board is in the midst of approving the regulations that interpret the new tenure and evaluation law, TEACH NJ, which was passed in the Legislature last year.
As if a major overhaul of tenure and evaluation weren't enough, the State Board is also in the midst of considering revisions to hundreds of regulations in response to the report of the governor's Education Transformation Task Force. Everything from the standards of certification for school nurses to the minimum length of a teacher's duty-free lunch period rests in the hands of the State Board.
All school employees are affected by decisions made by the board. School custodians may remember that near the end of the Corzine administration, code revisions determining how many custodians were needed to adequately clean a school were under consideration.
The Legislature may pass laws for schools, but the State Board interprets those laws, and school employees live with the results.
That is why the last several issues of the NJEA Reporter and the NJEA Review have encouraged members to write to the State Board on a variety of issues. You can expect more such requests in the weeks and months ahead.
So while it takes a bit more time and effort to craft a letter than it does to "like" a post on Facebook or re-tweet a message to @GovChristie—and it's certainly less convenient than sending an email—it is well worth your time.


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|Posted by bill wang on May 24, 19100 at 09:37:30:
For some reason, since last Friday, I have fewer and fewer hot water, even though it's NOT completely out of it. I have this GAS heater that are five years old. Any idea what could be the problem?
Thanks ahead!
|Replies to this post


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Top Definition
To be screwed over at work without pay.
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Season of Remembrance
November 11 2013 07:58AM
On the evening of December 24th, 1914, something redeeming happened along the Western Front in France and Belgium. Something sane, kind, good and human took over from the cruel madness that was emerging from the first few months of the Great War. On that night, rifles were put down and soldiers on opposite sides of a pitted field rose from their makeshift trenches filled with mud and earth and came together as comrades, offering each other gifts and friendship.
Today it is referred to as the Christmas Truce. It happened only once during the First World War, and intermittently along the vast front line that stretched from the English Channel to Switzerland. Reports are largely incomplete and many stories over the near century since it occurred appear apocryphal, but as with most stories of this kind, they germinate from a seed of truth.
It began with the German soldiers putting small Christmas trees decorated with paper lanterns on the parapets of their trenches, then the sound of "Stille Nacht" (Silent Night) came across No Man's Land and eventually men could be seen standing up in the German trenches. After some time, the English and German forces came together where they exchanged beer, cigarettes, tea, cigars, even helmets and buttons.
Almost inevitably, a sporting spirit soon took hold of the men and soccer balls were produced from one side or the other and the two armies separated into teams, Fritz vs Tommy. Here is what one soldier, Kurt Zehmisch of the 134th Saxons, said about the soccer match at his area of the front:
"'The English brought a soccer ball from the trenches, and pretty soon a lively game ensued. How marvellously wonderful, yet how strange it was. The English officers felt the same way about it. Thus Christmas, the celebration of Love, managed to bring mortal enemies together as friends for a time".
And so, on a shared holiday, two warring armies who were equipped and ordered to obliterate one another, put aside their contrived enmity and devoted themselves to another innately human pursuit: sport.
Amidst some of the worst that humanity has to offer, some of its darkest and most nihilistic days, left to their own devices and inspired by a belief in something greater than king and country, soldiers declared a truce and, for as long as the rest of the world would let them, behaved as men and comrades, rather than machines or monsters.
Sport was a natural outcome of this kind of meeting, and a friendly soccer match between opposing armies shouldn't seem to surprise us so much. It stopped a war, if only briefly. This is what the diplomats of the time couldn't, or wouldn't, do. It is what the Olympics used to do over two thousand years ago and what they were intended accomplish when re-introduced in 1896.
The last remaining survivor of the Great War who was serving in December of 1914 was interviewed by the Guardian Newspaper back in 2004. Alfred Anderson had this to say about that day:
"I remember the silence, the eerie sound of silence. Only the guards were on duty. We all went outside the farm buildings and just stood listening. And, of course, thinking of people back home. All I'd heard for two months in the trenches was the hissing, cracking and whining of bullets in flight, machinegun fire and distant German voices. But there was a dead silence that morning, right across the land as far as you could see. We shouted 'Merry Christmas', even though nobody felt merry. The silence ended early in the afternoon and the killing started again. It was a short peace in a terrible war."
There are times when we let sport divide us, but as much as the competition is about challenge and struggle against another, it is also a unifying force. Perhaps it serves as a psychological proxy for that part of our brain that is home to warring instincts. Perhaps it is a deeply seated survival instinct to prevent the annihilation of the species, saving us from ourselves as it were. Nevertheless, the Christmas Truce stands as a moment of humanity, and perhaps one of the last true moments of chivalry in the modern era of warfare. We would do well to remind ourselves of moments such as these today, as we approach the eve of the 100th anniversary of the beginning of the Great War, the First World War.
Here is the link to the full Guardian interview with Alfred Anderson and a few histories of the Christmas Truce can be found here, for those interested.
Thank you for reading, and here is the link to last year's Remembrance Day article.
Wonderfully written Rex. Thank you for helping us to remember. Lest we forget...
As we approach the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day, I would like to send out a message to all of you who have served our Country, as well as everyone who continues to. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your courage, for your bravery, and for allowing our freedom to continue. Everyday we appreciate, but today we salute...
November 11 2013, 08:33AM
Great piece Rex! I enjoyed it.
Thanks a lot, great article.
November 11 2013, 10:39AM
Wonderful article. As the son of a military historian, I do recall my father telling me this story. So on this day of Rememberance, I thank you for that.
November 11 2013, 01:02PM
As the son of a British War Bride and a Canadian vet who suffered from his experiences in the war I say thank you. Also I say thanks to all those who took time to remember but more to all who have served.
November 11 2013, 11:14AM
Props to you Rex, an extremely thoughtful read on this most memorable day.
The white poppy brigade should be tied to chairs and forced to watch this clip.
Fantastic article. I remember.
Best article written since the beginning of October AT LEAST. Even in the midst of war, hope survives!
Very proud of the sacrifices of all veterans, especially those from Canada, Aus and NZ. Thought you may appreciate a couple of connections between these nations.
They were big forces, but by golly they fought above their weight!
Great article Rex.
November 11 2013, 03:29PM
Cheers Rex. A reminder of perspective i think.
November 11 2013, 03:29PM
Double post soz
November 11 2013, 05:33PM
Thanks Rex. God bless our troops.
November 11 2013, 05:55PM
Great read. Thanks.


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chamekke wrote:Glad you like it, Ed. I bought that chawan mainly for its texture/colour/design ... but the repair definitely gives it character.
Incidentally, speaking of repair challenges, here's a lulu - a "Japanese old tea bowl damaged" that I just discovered on eBay. Ouch!!!
I wonder how that happened. Did someone attack it with an ice pick?


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Fergalicious Alanis Too Flat
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HELPER-Our loving husband, father, grandfather, great-grandfather, brother, and friend, Alfonzo Ybarra, age 63, was greeted into heaven by his parents and grandson Christopher on May 17, 2010 after a progressive illness.
He was born Jan. 4, 1947 in Price, Utah to Pete and Socorrita Duran Ybarra.
Married Gloria M. Baca on Feb. 8, 1967.
Alfonzo served in the Navy and was a Vietnam Veteran. Upon his return he graduated from Salt Lake Community College and eventually went to work at Union Pacific Railroad where he was a boilermaker-welder for 25 years at the Salt Lake Diesel Shop.
Alfonzo was an avid fisherman and loved the outdoors. He also painted, did metal and wood work. His greatest love was his family. He will be dearly missed by all who knew and loved him.
Survived by his loving wife, Gloria Ybarra, Helper; children, Vince (Valerie) Ybarra, Salt Lake City; Christina Ybarra, Wellington; Toby (Quinten), St. George; brother, Peter (Sherrie) Aperges, Salt Lake City; grandchildren, Sara Crabtree, Erin Edgar-Ybarra, both of Salt Lake City, Andrew Ybarra, Salt Lake City; Maxwell, Samantha, Joel, Raychel Briseno, all of Layton, Anthony and Andrea, both of Salt Lake City; numerous nieces and nephews.
The family would like to extend a special thanks to the Dialysis Center for their excellent loving care.
At Alfonzo's request there will be no memorial service. The family asks all friends and family to rejoice and remember the special memories that he left for us.
Arrangements entrusted to Mitchell Funeral Home of Price where friends and family are welcome to share memories of Alfonzo at www.mitchellfuneralhome.net.


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Old Testament Reading
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Proverbs 11:19-12:6
He who is steadfast in righteousness will live, but he who pursues evil will die. Men of perverse mind are an abomination to the LORD, but those of blameless ways are his delight. Be assured, an evil man will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will be delivered. Like a gold ring in a swine's snout is a beautiful woman without discretion. The desire of the righteous ends only in good; the expectation of the wicked in wrath. One man gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want. A liberal man will be enriched, and one who waters will himself be watered. The people curse him who holds back grain, but a blessing is on the head of him who sells it. He who diligently seeks good seeks favor, but evil comes to him who searches for it. He who trusts in his riches will wither, but the righteous will flourish like a green leaf. He who troubles his household will inherit wind, and the fool will be servant to the wise. The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, but lawlessness takes away lives. If the righteous is requited on earth, how much more the wicked and the sinner! Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid. A good man obtains favor from the LORD, but a man of evil devices he condemns. A man is not established by wickedness, but the root of the righteous will never be moved. A good wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones. The thoughts of the righteous are just; the counsels of the wicked are treacherous. The words of the wicked lie in wait for blood, but the mouth of the upright delivers men.
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The English Old Testament text is taken from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible.
The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is copyrighted 1946, 1952, 1971, and 1973 by the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. and used by permission.


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BCBGeneration Carrie Flat
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Nike Air Max Run Lite 4 Boys Youth Running Shoe
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Facebook Retargeting: Use Cases for Custom Audiences and Facebook Exchange
Last week, we went over the core differences between Facebook's enhanced Custom Audiences and the Facebook Exchange. To further expand on the topic, today we're giving you insight into how to best leverage each retargeting method, as well as how Facebook's expansion will further improve your marketing efforts.
What are some use cases for each retargeting method?
Facebook makes it clear that there are different ways for marketers to leverage both FBX and Website and Mobile App Custom Audiences. Overall, they recommend that advertisers use FBX when they have a large number of products and advertise to multiple audiences. For smaller businesses that don't generally work with third parties, Custom Audiences gives them a useful retargeting tool that includes mobile and can layer in Facebook's other targeting abilities.
Use Case — FBX for predictive buying: Let's say a user is on Sur La Table browsing through spatulas and measuring cups. FBX would target them with an ad for both of those items, but also for measuring spoons, because it can predict the affinity present in those products. Custom Audiences would simply retarget them with an ad for Sur La Table, provided they didn't complete their purchase.
Use Case — FBX for specific ad creative: FBX allows a marketer to target a user for the exact product they were viewing. Taking the same example above, that means Sur La Table could show the user an ad for the very spatula or measuring cup they had clicked on (as well as a measuring spoon they might be interested in). Separately, Sur La Table would use Custom Audiences to reach people searching for cooking products who have not downloaded their mobile app for iOS.


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Jason Gregor
November 01 2011 06:09PM
Linus Omark has been sent down to OKC. He does have an out-clause in his contract to go to Sweden, but he will report to the AHL. It is a smart move on his part. He wants to play in the NHL, and staying in North America makes the most sense for him.
He doesn't have to clear waivers, so if he plays well the Oilers can recall him without worrying about losing him on re-entry waivers. He needs to play and he is better off playing in the AHL than eating popcorn in an NHL pressbox.
The Oilers will also recall Colten Teubert with Cam Barker still questionable. Tom Renney said today he wasn't sure when they would call up Teubert, but it sounds like he will join them sooner than later.
Smart move by the Oilers and Omark to go to OKC. He'll get lots of icetime under Todd Nelson and if he can find some consistency I think he'll find himself back in the NHL.
Omark will join the team in Abbotsford and likely play Thursday and Saturday. If the Oilers announced the demotion today he would have had to fly to OKC today and join the team. However, since OKC is flying out to Abbotsford tomorrow, they can wait and announce it tomorrow and then he can join them in Abbotsford.
Strange rule, but that is why the Oilers won't announce his re-assignment until tomorrow.
November 01 2011, 06:08PM
Fist to say Omark has always been a slow starter. He should stay.
Too funny to go to Flames nation and see the "blow it up" comments.
November 02 2011, 09:24AM
What's with all the Ryan Jones hate? I've read many comments that suggest that they would be happier to see Jones come out instead of Omark.
Seriously? SERIOUSLY? When it comes to skill there is no comparison, but when it comes to what matters, results, then Jones is leading by a country mile. He's 1/3 of the Oilers most successful line - They're doing the heavy lifting on offense and defense.
They're not even close to comparable. Jones is bringing to the table something the Oil need, and he's doing it well.
Hearing people say they'd rather someone else come out of the lineup other than Omark is cool and all, but when people start suggesting taking out one of the best players so far and replacing him with someone who's been a HS 5 games in a row... well those people watch too much youtube and have a man crush on Omark that rivals mine on Renney.
Nobody seems to get it. He is going down because he is so close to 60 games that the Oilers are afraid to lose him on waivers if they have to send him down later in the season. They want to get him some playing time but two or three games before he hits 60 is not enough to see if he fits here long term. He will go to the AHL and rip it up. Then the oilers have a hard decision ahead of them, keep him and play him in the NHL or trade him. There is no doubt that Omark has NHL skill, but his defensive game is what needs to be worked on. IMO that is why he is being sent down. I would love to see him play more in the NHL too, but that is not going to happen at this time. If the 60 game rule was not in effect i think we would have seen Omark play more this season. The Oilers are handling this properly even if the fans and Omark dont agree.
November 02 2011, 11:21AM
So what is your take on the fact that Gagner has been plugged into precisely the same role Omark was supposed to play and has had the same results?
Unlike Omark, Gagner actually registered a point this season, albeit only one.
To many people's eyes he has looked better with each passing game.
He is coming off of a high ankle sprain after just 4 weeks of rest for an injury that many say takes 6 weeks to heal.
He has a much longer track record of success in the NHL that can be traced back all the way to his draft pedigree and followed him until last season when he was the team's most productive C.
The same coach that has deemed Omark an AHL player 2 years running has likened Gagner to Doug Gilmour. So it stands to reason that Gagner has a little more rope than Omark.
I guess this is a good thing. Time to get my tickets for the game here in Abbotsford Saturday. :)
Looking so forward to watching Harki and Omark.
November 01 2011, 07:42PM
I hope Tuebert plays against LA. If so I hope he rocks someone and scores a point. I really like how the Oil are keeping Plante's confidence up by calling him up getting him into a game and sending him down and now giving Teubert his NHL debut. The things I notice about good teams in the NHL is they have players on the farm team that come up and play and not stand out like rookies. Hartikinen will get a call up if a bottom 6 player goes down and if a top 6 player goes down Omark will get called up. I like the flexibility the Oilers have with call ups now.
Sutton suspension was a joke, 2 games at most would have been enough. Wasnt hurt on the play, player is 6 inches shorter and it wasnt even vicisious. Im getting really sick of the NHL and how pussified it is becoming. I miss the old days when a player would single out the opposing teams best player and then have to answer for it.
Also all the crap with the visors just irratates me. These are grown men we are talking about. I had to make decisions on my life when I was 16 Im pretty sure a 15 year vet can make a decision if he wants to wear protection or not. Every league other than the NHL has to wear visors so sooner or later it will just be apart of the league, stop trying to mandate it NHL its annoying as heck
November 01 2011, 07:47PM
November 01 2011, 09:11PM
@Wanyes Bastard Child
lol, never said it was a good or a bad thing. But for better or worse thats the face... avatar... he's stuck with. .... Oh wait.
Sending good players down from a healthy roster with depth & role players instead of grabbing whoever you can get from the farm to replace gaping holes in an injury depleted lineup--WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????????
Sending good players down from a healthy roster with depth & role players instead of grabbing whoever you can get from the farm to replace gaping holes in an injury depleted lineup--WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????????
Don't worry. Teubert will re-validate your point of view.
November 02 2011, 09:52AM
As I said in the poll comments, leave the Kids line alone and please for the sake of all that is holy, leave the Horc line alone as well. Those 2 lines are working so don't mess with them.
To those who are saying that the kids have played poorly on the road, lets remember we have only had 2 road games so far this year and Hall didn't play in Calgary. So IMNSHO, 1 game is not enough to say they play badly on the road.
As for Hemsky,play him with Gagner and MPS. Our need on this team right now is secondary scoring.
Omark and Lander going down for 40 games will not be the end of their world or careers. It gives us time to evaluate Hemsky and gagner and see if there is any chemstry between them and MPS.
This season is not about challenging. It is about figuring out what we got and plugging holes via trades at the deadline this year.
November 02 2011, 09:56AM
I am excited by this move. It points to the organizational depth that has been slowly but surely compiled over the last few years. Every winning organization has young and probable 'NHL-ready' players playing on their AHL affiliate. This is a good move for Omark, and a good position for the organization to be in.
Things have changed. Put your time in, work hard, get results, and you should be rewarded with some time in Oiler silks.
This is a far cry from recent years where guys were just given their job since they had noone else.
Arrows are pointing in the right direction, and rip it up, Omark.
November 02 2011, 09:58AM
@Max Powers - Team HME Evans
He's 1/3 of the Oilers most successful line - They're doing the heavy lifting on offense and defense.
This is like claiming Ringo Star was 1/4 of the reason for the Beatles' success.
So far I have seen zero reason to believe that Omark couldn't or wouldn't be more successful than Jones given the same spot with the Smyth line.
Everyone is so quick to claim Omark isn't playing defense but the same people are happy watching Jones run around in his own zone with his head cut off, it's absurd. I will never understand how a guy can look competent on the PK but lost at evens, but Jones is living proof.
What is it that Jones brings to the table that is so necessary? He can PK from the 4th line like Petrell. Does everyone just like how he tries so hard that he can't stand up all the time?
...one of the best players so far
I fear greatly for this team if this is true.
and replacing him with someone who's been a HS 5 games in a row.
The fact that Renney sat someone is not proof that Renney was right to sit them.
Finally, enough with the youtube comments. It's absurd and has nothing to do with anything.
November 02 2011, 10:02AM
- agreed on the youtube comments being irrelevant
- Don't forget as people get healthy, we need to send people down. Why risk someone to waivers when we can send omark down for seasoning and play time while we sort out the remaining players and line combinations
Lastly, why change the second line for the sake of change. It is working so leave it alone. When it stops working (and not just for 1 or 2 games, but an extended period) that while be the time to change things.
Sometimes the best thing a coach can do is not tinker and stay out of his own way and let the players play.
This is one situation where I agree with Tambo's lengthy assessments. They need time to see if Hemsky's latest injury problems are likely to be chronic and if Gagner is going to finally develop into the player that they thought they had a few years ago. Once they have figured that out they will know which of those two and Omark are expendable. They are not perfectly interchangeable, but they can't all exist on the same roster with the pieces that are already there.
November 02 2011, 10:06AM
it's clear objectivity is long past you on this topic so i won't waste much time talking about this with you.
he was as consistent as whom else this year? MPS, Gagner (same number of games so far). they aren't sitting/on a bus any where best i can tell.
i don't disagree he was the likely choice to go down. he isn't only your goat me thinks. *cough* Renney.
he didn't fit in the plan now he rides a bus. whatever. moving on.
Is it truly that difficult to believe that it isnt just his lack of offense that is keeping Omark out of the lineup?
I know I like to get all over Omark at every chance that I get, but I'm not making up his poor play at the Oiler end of the rink. He isnt very good.
I dont know the exact reasons Renney doesnt play him over others, but the same choice was made last season too. He wasnt trusted then and he isnt trusted now.
He is a replacement player in the NHL 2 years running despite being given an extended look at the NHL level (50+ games). RNH takes his spot on the PP and does it much better, and players like Gagner, MPS, and Belanger either bring more to the table than their offense or have a more proven track record of providing the offense that Omark wasnt bringing.
But I guess poor little Omark didnt get a fair shake.
November 02 2011, 12:00PM
Gagner's point was on Cam Barker's goal. He made the pass to an open Barker who came in and made a nice move. Not a spectacular pass, but one that directly lead to the goal.
Being fit enough to pass a test and 100% health are not the same thing. He missed the end of last season, had surgery, played in an exhibition game, was out for a month, then came back into Regular season hockey. Are you suggesting that is a schedule that should have kept any rust off? As for the fitness test, it isnt a test for 100% health, it's to see if they can handle playing at a decent level.
There isnt any issue at all with spotting a vet who has an established level of play a few games after returning from such a long time away from hockey. He can put up very few points but still have the trust from the coach that the points will be there eventually.
I hardly think Omark has the same excuses as Gagner, but, even if you did eliminate all of the reasonable factors that go into a slow start from Gagner, then it certainly isnt proof that Omark has no blame for failing to produce.
November 02 2011, 12:42PM
Agreed. I think the time for acquiring picks as the primary return for trades is over. Live bodies from here on out. Prospects are fine, but I suspect that when Tambellini gets offered a first his next question is "And?"
November 02 2011, 12:56PM
Ok. So all I got from our back and forth here is that:
a) You disagree with my initial post, and b) You're a total dink
Right on. Thanks for the riveting discussion!
Edit: I see you edited your last post to exclude the demeaning comment
To add to my previous comment about keeping Omark with MPS on the second unit pp, we were not more than 5 games or so in to the season when Omark began to sit out 5 straight. How in that short of time and given how productive he was last year can a guy suddenly be out. Especially so when Lander just arrived, he was supposed to be in the OKC. Jones IMO has a longer leash. Gagner although injured at the start of the season and since coming back has not been lights out either. Some coaches have their favorite players and some just do not have chemistry with certain players.
I Honestly think Omark is a victim of the 60 games rule.
I like Omark, but he's on the fence at the moment; meaning he doesn't have a solid spot because they Couldn't afford to give him the Game time to adjust and fit in while still keeping him under the 60 game limit.
The only real way he would have broke free of this situation, IMO, is if he came out like RNH and wowed offensively for a bit.
November 02 2011, 01:40PM
FFS read the conversation please.
I did, conclusion is that you are somehow related to Linus Omark.
I see. So I say I disagree with Renney and your response is that Renney disagrees with me? Thank you for the news flash.
Tiger - I think the point was that Renney knows more than you do about hockey, and certainly more about the chemistry and team dynamics inside the room. Maybe I disagree and should send your resume to email@example.com
November 02 2011, 02:15PM
I sure hope he starts up soon. He's a notoriously slow starter and I think he's looked better each game he plays. The emergence of RNH and the good health of Horcoff have certainly changed the lay of the land.
I still think that he can fit in long term as the 2C when Horcoff becomes less reliable offensively. However, the old balls are playing like it's 2006 out there, so I agree with you that Gagner will be in tough to get the minutes.
I think he finishes with over 40 again though. If Gregor is right about a 91-89-83 line then I see the points starting to come again.
November 02 2011, 02:21PM
I sure hope he starts up soon. He's a notoriously slow starter and I think he's looked better each game he plays. The emergence of RNH and the good health of Horcoff have certainly changed the lay of the land.
I still think that he can fit in long term as the 2C when Horcoff becomes less reliable offensively. However, the old balls are playing like it's 2006 out there, so I agree with you that Gagner will be in tough to get the minutes.
I think he finishes with over 40 again though. If Gregor is right about a 91-89-83 line then I see the points starting to come again.
I can see how people see Gagner as expendable with RNH here and Horc (and a lesser extent Belanger) playing excellent hockey. I can see how it looks like he doesn't fit with the team anymore.
But it's pretty poor long term planning if we are banking on two guys creeping up on 35 to provide secondary scoring for much longer.... especially when I've been told for years that Horc is a 3rd... or even 4th liner at best by 90% of the site.
November 02 2011, 03:02PM
I have to agree that he has looked better the last game or two. I was actually impressed with the jump he had before the ankle issue but when he came back it was like he was skating in quicksand. He's starting to get some flow back in his stride again.
We will see if and how he plays with Hemsky. I really haven't seen a lot of chemistry between those two in the past. If Gagner struggles on the dot they may be playing without the puck quite a bit as I don't see them being real strong puck retrieval players. Only time will tell. Having a 3rd line scoring would really pick up this team and take some pressure off the kids, especially on the road, so I hope they can produce.
Obviously I'd prefer higher FO% to lower FO%.... whowever most people blow FO ability way out of proportion.
A guy like Gagner is going to take 10 - 12 FO per game.... so the difference between him at 40% vs 50% is really only +/- one win per game.
Is that really going to make that big of a difference?
A couple of things. People thinking Belanger is "playing excellent hockey"are a bit off the mark. Other than his FO prowess, if anything he's been a boat anchor for PRV and Gagner.
Also, worth a read:
November 01 2011, 06:09PM
I'll be fist to admit that I didn't see this coming.
Edit: Curse you Scuba Steve!
I rag on Omark being a bad player with little to offer, but I didn't expect this. I thought he would get a couple more games to get his legs back. Now does he go back to Sweden?
I doubt it. I think he is a very proud man, and going back would indicate failure.
Rip it up in the AHL. Get some legs back, come back and SIUTBOYC! That includes me.
Id imagine that rule is there to prevent teams from cheaping out and assigning players during layoffs without actually sending them down and saving some coin by paying the ahl side of the two way contract.
November 01 2011, 06:36PM
When we go to the cup final in the first year of the new rink, will omark be in the plans. I doubt it.
November 01 2011, 06:38PM
In a rational world this would be so that Omark could get some game time before being called back up to play again.
In the real world he rots in the AHL until he is traded for nothing. If he is called up it will only be because they are forced by injury to do so. In which case he'll play marginal minutes until they blame him for everything again.
If they don't think he is a real NHL player I don't understand why they didn't trade him in the offseason before they destroyed his value. I don't know what he would have been worth but I know it was more than it was after being benched 10 minutes into the season. Now they've destroyed his value and there is no way to get it back. Even if he plays well in the AHL what is that going to prove. He's already over a point per game in the AHL and he already has a reputation as a minor league player. Playing well can't change that reputation. However, playing poorly could confirm it. This is a lose-lose proposition for both the Oilers and Omark.
November 01 2011, 06:57PM
Oh man, Archie's going to be so disappointed. Of all people, it has to be his favorite player getting the shaft here. Poor Arch. :(
@Captain Obvious
Im not sure I follow how the Oilers have destroyed his value. What was he worth this summer in your opinion.
Omark hasn't been a good fit this season, I hope this will help. So do the Oil make a trade for a dman with Sutton being suspended ? Gagner on the move ?
@Quicksilver ballet
On the contrary.. archs position will be.. hes a goat.. where else but the farm?
I had souray pegged as goat material a couple years back and he even got sent to a dont contaminate the prize livestock farm.
That hurt.
November 01 2011, 07:24PM
On the contrary.. archs position will be.. hes a goat.. where else but the farm?
I had souray pegged as goat material a couple years back and he even got sent to a dont contaminate the prize livestock farm.
That hurt.
Are you sure roughneck?
He's been really animated on this issue, was darn sure he was his biggest fan. Nobody speaks of Omark more on this forum than Arch. Never had him pegged as a Hang'em high kinda guy. Who knew....
November 01 2011, 07:27PM
Gee that didn't take long. Time to celebrate Arch.
November 01 2011, 07:29PM
@ Captain Obvious or, maybe they could get next to nothing for him in a trade over the summer.
Oh is he going to be steamed! But this is probably easier for him to take than being a HS.
I wonder if he's got another 5 goal game in him, to SUITBOYC.
November 01 2011, 07:56PM
This isn't that big of deal. Several players get sent down. Smid did.......and he is one of the only prospects of that team that is still an oiler.
November 01 2011, 08:14PM
Gee that didn't take long. Time to celebrate Arch.
He's right where he belongs. If he can turn those skills into something that is more consistant then he could be a good offensive weapon.
I just wish my Star would get around to making me look a little smarter.
November 01 2011, 08:28PM
@Matt Henderson
Your star scoring 50 wouldn't change your looks Arch :)
November 01 2011, 08:43PM
Your star scoring 50 wouldn't change your looks Arch :)
He's rocking the young Harrison Ford avi, betcha %99 of women disagree with you ;)
As an Omark supporter I have no problem with this, provided that when he goes down there and tears it up appropriate action as taken.
this leaves the Oilers with just 12 healthy forwards. so does this mean 83 could play as early as Thurs night or does it mean they are cool with rolling the dice and hoping no one gets hurt during practice or in the weight room etc
I hate it when teams purposely leave themselves short
Omark hasn't been a good fit this season, I hope this will help. So do the Oil make a trade for a dman with Sutton being suspended ? Gagner on the move ?


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Webb looks a champion wager
Webb Simpson can get his season off to a flying start by winning the Hyundai Tournament of Champions says our Ben Coley.
- Related Content
Thirty PGA Tour winners have the honour of kicking off the 2013 season in the Hyundai Tournament of Champions, which gets under way on Friday.
The Plantation Course at Kapalua in Hawaii is the venue and has been since before the turn of the century, so while qualification criteria and sponsorship deals mean the names change, there is at least one constant.
While this 7,411 yard course - which plays to a par of 73 - is very much exposed to winds, most years have seen that wind remain consistent throughout the week and winning this tournament requires exceptional scoring.
The last four champions have had to card scores of 22-under or better and all have played the par-fives well, although that's a relatively typical requirement on the PGA Tour and it is certainly possible to win the event without dominating the longer holes.
In terms of finding an identikit winner, well, that's no easy task. From 2002 to 2010 there was a run of nine consecutive international champions, but Jonathan Byrd and Steve Stricker have notched for the home team since to buck that particular trend.
And while several players have noted that distance is an advantage on a course that has wide open fairways, that really isn't borne out in the results. Distance will help some, but it's surely not as crucial as a bit of know-how and experience - the last 10 champions have been over 30 years old and I'd be comfortable describing each of them as methodical.
Why is experience and patience crucial? For one thing it's very hard to get a flat lie at Kapalua, a course which takes some walking, while several players have spoken of the need to play a wide variety of shots here: you can't just grip and rip.
Other dynamics in play are how players will fare after a break from the game and how much they value winning this event as opposed to using it to get rid of the rust, making this a tricky start to the season from a betting point of view.
Indeed, a look at the prices shows almost a dozen players pitched between 12/1 and 20/1, so it looks like the bookmakers aren't sure what to expect this week.
All factors considered, for me the most likely winner is Webb Simpson and for that reason he gets the headline vote.
If we're looking for a methodical player who can go low, who putts well, knows how to get the job done and has shown a liking for this course and others like it, then clearly Simpson ticks a lot of boxes.
Patient enough to win a US Open, this is a guy who thinks every shot through and that showed as he shot four good rounds to finish in a tie for fourth last year, the only player in the frame who hadn't played the Plantation Course before.
Simpson described the layout as 'beautiful' after opening with a round of 68, one which saw him miss a couple of short putts as he got used to the bermuda greens, and it's also worth noting that he said it took him until just the second hole of round one to feel like the competitive juices were flowing once again.
That speaks to how seriously Webb takes every tournament and he'll be desperate to get off to a fast start this year and validate his US Open triumph.
His breakthrough major success actually came during what's now to be considered an uncharacteristic run of inconsistent form, but Simpson ended the season on a high with top-10 finishes in both the TOUR Championship and at the Chevron World Challenge, making an impressive Ryder Cup debut in-between.
Second in both birdie average and par breakers last season, we know Simpson can go exceptionally low and as one of the best lag putters on Tour these big surfaces are no issue whatsoever.
Simpson also ranked sixth for approach proximity from 75-100 yards and we can expect him to be firing at flags from that sort of range again, so take the general 14/1.
Getting embroiled in stats is a dangerous policy in my opinion, but one thing did strike me when looking as past champions: all are fantastic birdie-range putters.
By that I mean putts from five to 20 feet; Ogilvy was once among the world's best from this range, Stricker's putting ability from all distances needs no introduction and neither does that of Stuart Appleby.
It stands to reason that good putters will go close in an event that requires such low numbers, and with that in mind Carl Pettersson made his way towards the top of my list.
The burly Swede took his game to another level in 2012, winning the RBC Heritage on a seaside track before finishing third in the PGA Championship at Kiawah Island.
Clearly, his ability to not only cope but to go low when the wind blows is there for all to see, and a fourth-placed finish on his last visit to this course further underlines that fact.
Last season, Pettersson ranked 15th on Tour for putts from five to 15 feet and 20th overall in strokes gained putting, so if he can set up some chances then it's fair to expect him to take them.
Two seventh-placed finishes in his last three starts of 2012 suggest the game is in good shape, and what's even more encouraging is his record at the start of the season.
Last year, he started off with a share of second in the Sony Open - an event also played in Hawaii - and he was placed on his first starts of 2010 and 2011 too.
Interestingly, Pettersson spoke of working harder than he ever had before during the off-season of 2010/11, and clearly it has paid off. At 25/1 I think he's a perfectly fair price.
In a field of this size I was prepared to go to war with just two selections, but at 80/1 I am compelled to include a small bet on Johnson Wagner.
Wagner is a fast-starter with two top-10 finishes in as many starts here, and last season he won the Sony Open to demonstrate that he just loves coming to Hawaii.
That success at Wailea wasn't a surprise to the man himself as he'd promised his wife that he'd win early in 2012 having followed Pettersson's lead in working harder than ever before in the off-season.
Of course, he rather went off the boil during the latter part of the year but that was the case in 2011, and it only served to make him hit the gym and the range in a search for improvement.
Too unfashionable a player to ever be a truly household name, Wagner has won three PGA Tour titles in less than five years, all in the first few months of the year, and having slipped outside the top 100 in the Official World Golf Rankings he has every incentive to get off to another fast start.
Quite simply, he shouldn't be 80/1 in this limited field having carded an under-par round on every attempt here at the Plantation Course.
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Texas Tech announced in a news conference Wednesday night that it had reinstated highly regarded freshman defensive back Nigel Bethel, who had been dismissed following an altercation in a pickup basketball game.
Bethel was caught on video punching women's basketball player Amber Battle, breaking her jaw, in an incident on June 28 at the Texas Tech Student Recreation Center.
"This is an unfortunate situation with a unique set of circumstances, and there are no winners," athletic director Kirby Hocutt said in a statement on the school's website. "Every decision related to this case has been the right one at that particular time based upon our principles, student-athlete code of conduct and team rules."
Bethel will be required to sit out the first three games of the season.
"I am thankful for the opportunity to come back to Texas Tech," Bethel said. "I take full responsibility for my actions and I would like to let everyone know that this won't happen again. It's not who I am and I am sorry for the embarrassment this has caused. I want to thank Amber Battle for accepting my apology and for coming forward to say that I deserved a second chance. I would like to thank everyone at Texas Tech, including the coaches, for believing in me and giving me a second chance to show my ability and to receive an education from Texas Tech."
Battle, a senior, has been suspended for the month of November for her role in the incident.
"I'm relieved that Nigel is receiving a second chance because I believe in second chances," said Battle. "We were both at fault in this situation and I believe our punishment should be equal. This is a good opportunity for us to learn from our mistakes and I think we both have. Hopefully now we can move forward and focus on helping our teams compete at the highest level."
Bethel, who faced felony charges, was cleared of wrongdoing by a grand jury on Tuesday.