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With the news of Star Wars Galaxies cancellation later this year, MMORPG.com Managing Editor Bill Murphy takes a look at some the best that also have fallen over the years. Check out The List to see if you agree with Bill's choices. Be sure to add your thoughts in the comments.
In honor of our fallen (falling?) comrade, Star Wars Galaxies, this week's List is going to be all about the dead and dying MMOs. It's no secret that when an MMORPG launches and people begin to make it their home, they start to grow attached to the world, it's characters, and the people they inhabit it with. Ergo it's always painful when one of these games has to be shut down. Whether a game is a success or not, we're talking about thousands of hours in development being switched off, never to be played again.
Read more of Bill Murphy's The List: The Five Best Cancelled MMOs.
i played all of those games auto assalt was a intersting game was shocked it didnt last longer then 1 yr i know swg not on hrere but i say everyone quit sony games couse they dont know how to run none of them:(
IMO. Out of all of those. Earth and Beyond was the only one that shouldnt have been cancelled.
Oh how I miss you EnB. Your death has seeded a deep hatred of EA that lasts to this very day.
I was seriously gearing up to play EnB and even got friends and family into it going as far as buying them copies of the game. Where warp speed wasn't some lame 'warp interface' on a map. Where combat, exploration and crafting all could be used to pump up your preferred playstyle of the the three. Where I actually READ the friggin QUESTS because I liked the storyline and the random news updates from space ports made it one of the only MMO's where I cared about being immersed. Hard solo quests that required strategy on your approach!
All this only to witness a few months later a 'sunset' announcment. Damn you EA. My favorite MMO doesn't even exist because of you.
Wish with got canceled in beta. It had a lot of promise even in beta and a shame it got canceld.
Played Auto Assault and EnB and also tested TCoS.
TCoS - was to weird, much to weird, releasing against to much competition, experienced poeple called it a fail a year b4 release and the truth is it was.
Auto Assault - i would have loved if it had been more Interstate 76 instead of this weird setting with clunky avatar interaction. Think i played 2 months or so. Fundamentally a good automobile mmo must work but seems nobody has got it right yet.
EnB - the best of these 5, have still the 3 boxes of our family space fleet at home, EA did not give it a good chance and EvE milked it off. I even favor EnB over EvE bcs EnB had a soul!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Auto Assault would have made a good ftp.
Dungeon Runners is in my top 5. I still wish someone would pick up the rights and reopen the game.
I too miss Asheon's Call 2. It would be nice to see Turbine to a relaunch of it maybe 1 or 2 servers with a FTP model on it. However I heard most of the codes were lost in the developement of LoTRO (Unless Smeldey worked for Turbine for that PR release.)
IRONFIST Gaming community
There are a few games that I would add to the list even though some of them never launched...
Seed - Crazy concept that I would have liked to have seen. Sadly the beta was never playable for me.
Motor City Online - while not an MMORPG it was an MMO and died far to early
Imperator - great setting for an MMO really wish it had happened.
The Sims Online
Out of these 3, I wish someone somewhere would resurect MxO
Originally posted by Dru72
The Sims Online
Out of these 3, I wish someone somewhere would resurect MxO
Forgot all about MXO..another SOE casuality. Im sure we will be talking about Vanguard in the same way very soon.
Originally posted by GreenHell
Forgot all about MXO..another SOE casuality. Im sure we will be talking about Vanguard in the same way very soon.
More than likely
I feel (probably amongst thousands of other gamers) that rather than a game totally biting the dust, companies should 'auction' off the rights of a dead game,giving other companies or people (i.e --a player run community that can fund the continuation).
I myself would gladly contribute towards the resurection of MxO.
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by Dru72
The Sims Online
Out of these 3, I wish someone somewhere would resurect MxO
Forgot all about MXO..another SOE casuality. Im sure we will be talking about Vanguard in the same way very soon.
To be fair, Sony bought the game and kept it running long after it should have died on it's own.
Sony didn't really put much love into it afterwards, though.. the Matrix craze died pretty quickly after the second and third movies. I remember playing the original beta of MxO and thought.. no thanks. Buggy, horrid mess with no clear game play or objectives.
I heard from many people it became better after release, and those working on it did so with great passion. I would have rather seen MxO on this list rather than Auto Assault.
{mod edit}
I miss Tabula Rasa.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Originally posted by astoria
I miss Tabula Rasa.
TCOS was too unique for the themepark TAB-target crowd at that time. The game would have a better chance today, now that many gamers are sick of the wow formula.
The amateurish studio behind TCOS was in no way able to push the game to it's real potential and the way it was handled by the publishers was another pure shame.
I'm shure in the hands of some capable devs and with the support of a proper publisher, TCOS would have been SO much more and flourishing today -perhaps with already a 2nd great addon upcoming. I guess that can be said about 95% of all games which tanked in the recent years, but then i think unlike the wow clones of studios who hopped on the bandwagon for a quick buck TCOS really deserved better.
Auto Assault. Such a shame because I saw the box in the stores and reallyyyy wanted to give it a try..
none of them are WoW-Clone.
I was pissed when Earth and Beyond got canned. I freakin loved that game!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Hmmm...maybe some financially savvy company should go shopping and do some reboots, relaunches, revamps of these games that "could-have-been" great with the right dev team and support.
I for one, would love to see Auto Assault but with more dedication and passion thrown at it as well as Asheron's Call 2.
Microsoft did not close AC2, that was Turbine. Turbine had already bought back AC and AC2, released an exp pak for it and I think 3-5 months later shut it down.
1. Earth and Beyond
2. Star Wars Galaxies *pending*
3. Eve*thrown out with the baby and bath water*
Well, the Betas for Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa were fun, but I quickly uninstalled both soon after I heard of their up-and-coming demise. I though TR could have been a great game, but AA still needed a lot of work.
{mod edit}
Asheron's Call was not that good of a game in comparison to the original. ALl it had was better graphics, the gameplay was a step down from Asheron's Call. If Turbine had kept the general gameplay and character system of Asheron's Call, AC2 might not have sucked so bad.
I think Shadowbane deserves mention.


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Demonstration Garden
In early 2008 we created a demonstration garden at the Open Space Visitor Center that represents several early farming methods and the foods that were collected and cultivated in New Mexico. This is intended to be an educational garden where groups can actively take part in its development and observe its successes and failures. Farming methods that will be represented are terraced arroyo, waffle garden, cobble mulch garden, and orchards.
Location & Hours
The Open Space Visitor Center is located at 6500 Coors Blvd. NW between Montaño Rd. and Paseo del Norte at the end of Bosque Meadows Rd.
The Center is open Tuesday through Sunday, 9:00 AM – 5:00 PM and closed Mondays.
Kim Selving, [email protected] or Call 897-8831 for more information or if interested in volunteering to help maintain this unique natural space.
A special thanks to Soilutions, Inc. for donating their locally made compost for the Visitor Center's heritage garden and teaching the local community on the how-to's of home composting.

subset: commoncrawl


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Skip to comments.Maher: The Bible Only Makes Sense if Youre Really High
Posted on 01/09/2013 6:55:26 AM PST by Olog-hai
During his appearance on NBCs Tonight Show Monday, guest Bill Maher told the audience, The Bible only makes sense if you're really high.
When audience reaction to the remark was muted, Maher continued, Touchy group tonight.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
...just don't mock the faith of the mudslimes you 'politically incorrect' phoney.
When audience reaction to the remark was muted, Maher continued, Touchy group tonight.
Maybe they were all just really high. I know it would be the only way I would go watch Maher.
Mocking God is no joke. It brought us Obama.
We are only on Earth for a short time.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(2 Corinthians 4:4)
It probably had nothing to do with anyone being touchy. It just isn't funny.
right down there w/0'pinhead!
Semper Maggots!
It depresses me to think that a prime requisite for rising to the top in the liberal world is a lack of talent in anything - let alone one's chosen profession.
Examples: The Obamadork and the Maherdork.
I wonder, who do people like this pray to in moments of crisis? Who do they seek out when confronted with life or death situations? When all else fails who's hand do they reach for?
Semper Vermis Inventus?
Why do we even give this guy air time? The only ones who care what he feels or says are those who are in sync with his ultra liberal secular bigotry.
There is a saying: God created whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world. I think an addendum would be God created guys like this so we know what it will be like if we go to Hell.
Be not decieved;God is not mocked:for whatso ever a man soweth, that shall he reap.
Gal 6-7
Q. Why does it take longer to build a Maher snowman?
A. Cause you have to hollow out it's head!
Maher walked into a doctor's office with two burnt ears. The doctor asked him, "What happened to your ear?" Maher replied, "I was ironing and the phone rang, so instead of picking up the phone, I picked up the iron and put it to my ear.
Still not satisfied, the doctor asked, "Well, what happened to the other ear?"
"The guy called again!"
Q. Why was the Maher in the tree?
A. Because he was raking up the leaves!
Q. What does Maher see when he looks into a box of cheerios?
A. Donut seeds.
Maher decided to go ice fishing. He grabbed all his equipment and put on his fishing outfit.. He walked out onto the icy surface and found a good spot. He took a knife and made a large circle in the ice with it.
"NO! Not there! You will find no fish!" a booming voice announced out of nowhere. So Maher moved a few feet away and made another circle. "NO!! Not there either!!" The voice boomed again. Maher moved a third time, making another circle on the ice. "I said, NO!! There is no fish there!!" The voice boomed again.
"Is that you, God?" Maher called out.
"NO!!" The voice boomed. "It's the manager of the ice rink!!"
It takes real resolve to remain an atheist in a foxhole, I suppose.
Unfortunately, God is loving, He forgives them and hears them.
I wouldn't.
Gosh! We give them "gay marriage", access to children, and our blood and sweat for them to spend as they choose, and still they don't respect us!
I wonder what we could be doing wrong?
Let's see him mock Islam. That would be really edgy.
I was reading Isaiah 54 & 55 this morning. Why wouldn't everyone at least want to find out what God has to offer?
Does this not sound good to him?
Isa 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
Yep, as your verse says, if he could comprehend Isaiah, he'd convert. His rebellion against the Spirit has made him reprobate. Very sad, we have a lot of work to do.
I'll bet the gutless one will never say that about The Quran.
I don't think so. I think the only prayer God hears from an unbeliever is the one for repentance.
They are addicted to themselves. Its sad.
Maybe he could try a variation of the same joke on Iranian TV? The Quran only makes sense when you're really high? I'm sure the joke would make heads fall off, or at least one..
Thankfully he's dealing with a tolerant religion. Though I'm sure there's already at least one complaint about mentioning the bible on federally licensed airwaves over the incident, with the complainant incorrectly declaring that there is a separation of church and state and this is a state licensed station...
I've had my deepest moments of comfort and peace when I was at my lowest. I only found that comfort in God's Word and the prayers of His people.
The guy doesn't even deserve the publicity of a discussion. Leave him alone and he'll disappear one of these days.
I had to go to the airport (a 30-40 min. trip) to pick up my son who was flying in from London on Christmas day. I was driving in a terrible storm and couldn't see the road many times on the freeway - the rain was smashing into the windshield with a loud noise blotting out my vision. I had to take the exist to a toll road and knew I had to be in the area where the exit was coming up but I couldn't see it.
I prayed out loud to God to let the rain let up so I could see where to exist. About 40 yards before that exit, the rain let up and I could see to exit onto the toll road. That was an answer to prayer.
"High", as in "close to Heaven".
funny you never hear of libtards crying for "government!" when they're looking death in the face. or their current favorite hollyood icon they're consumed with at the moment. or fidel, or che, or madonna (the whore, not the biblical), not even hillary or algore.
they cry for the person they've mocked and railed against their entire lives.
There were two others on crosses, right next to Christ. Both were criminals and full of sin. One remained vial and the other asked for forgiveness.
There is hope for everyone, even if it is the last thing they do. Unfortunately ,we have to be subjected to their ugliness. We have to remember "They don't know what they do."
We are in agreement brother.
Just a hunch, but I'm guessing Maher's last years on this earth are going to be dark and unhappy.
That's the beauty of Christianity.
...they are supposed to be "smart" people so they ought to be able to recognize when they are entering into really dangerous territory.
(but if they said it about Jews that would be OK too)
God: Bill Maher Only Makes Sense if Youre Really Stupid
Frankly, God so designed the Scriptures so the haters would not understand. So much about faith is counterintuitive - by design. God's ways are not man's ways.
Bill Maher To Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison: The Qur'an Is A 'Hate Filled Holy Book
Bill Maher On UN Murders: Islam Is Only Religion That Kills When You Disagree With Them
Google is your friend...
There is more in Heaven and earth than dreamt of in Maher's philosophy . . . to paraphrase Shakespeare.
Maher has a small mind, a shriveled heart and an empty soul. When I hear these folks who are so anti-religious I actually pray for them because the emptiness in their lives must be so profound, and they simply have no clue what is missing in order to provide them peace.
I'm beyond the point of criticism for Maher.
He needs prayer and a lot of it. That's the best response the Christian community can provide.
Maher only makes sense if you're:
a) Extremely stupid
b) Mentally ill
c) a Liberal
d) a Progressive
e) Any combination of a through d
I used to enjoy him on Johnny Carson's show many many years ago. I thought he was very funny and had a bright future. I don't know when the bitterness crept in but he is intollerable now. Shame to waste decent talent.
If he was a vial, he wouldn't have any arms to cruficy him.
I guess he urned it.
What a jughead.
Hmm.. I have been really high, Shine on you crazy diamond makes perfect sense when you are really high. I have been really sober for many years now- and the Bible makes perfect sense to me.
I think this man is just blind and dumb. I will pray for him.
Funny, that's exactly what I think about Obamacare. :)
Yes, it was. I love to hear stories like that.
A few years ago, I had to go to the doctor for some symptoms I was having----they were scary, but thankfully, they turned out to be nothing. However, my appointment was late in the day and I was very apprehensive and nervous about what I might find out. That morning, I asked the Lord to please give me some comfort and peace. Before the words were completely out of my mouth, I was hit by...well, I can only describe it as a wave, a heavy wave of warmth and complete peace. I stayed wrapped up in that feeling all day....it didn't leave me. I'll never forget that. It was the Holy Spirit, I believe.
Suprised that audiences reaction was muted
to Mahlers profane humor.
A dim ray of hope for America perhaps.
He is an evil little man
Thanks, you don't know how much I needed to smile today. :-)
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HELPER-George David Llewelyn, age 70, returned to His Heavenly Father on Feb. 6, 2014, after a 35 year struggle with health issues. He was born Sept. 1, 1943 in Spring Canyon, Utah to Wallace and Nora Mower Llewelyn.
Graveside service, Tuesday, Feb. 11, 2014, noon, Mitchell Funeral Home (233 East Main Street) in Price. Family will be at Mitchell's Tuesday from 11-11:30 a.m. Arrangements entrusted to Mitchell Funeral Home of Price where friends are welcome daily and may share memories of George online at www.mitchellfuneralhome.net. In lieu of flowers, the family suggests donations to the Helper Fire Department.


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***Each 1 x qty is for 5 sashes***
Our Brand New L'Amour Chair Sashes are made of high-quality L'Amour satin fabric, with matte satin finish look. It has satin's smooth touch feel, and the elegance of a high class look. The carefully hand stitched refined edges are smooth and tight, no fraying.
Does it cost a bit more? Yes, but well worth every penny spent.
Uses: chair cover, wedding, parties, celebrations, graduations, or any special event.
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Hemmed edges.
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For Sash only, chair cover and other decorations are not included.


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Is desperation attractive to anyone?ReplyCancel
Is the guy the one Zooey is datingReplyCancel
like the hyland guessReplyCancel
Lorre for the Producer….ReplyCancel
Hyland broke up with boyfriend in DM todayReplyCancel
@Tricia think you got it, but makes me sad.ReplyCancel
Chuck (or as Charlie Sheen would say, "Hakim") Lorre is 61.
Hyland is colder to 1/3 his age.
But ya, he's the first one I thought of too
Dude should have asked for ass 2 mouth. That would lead to an angry storm off or some real fun.
Easiest way to get an annoying broad away from you is to ask a question she doesn't want to answer.ReplyCancel
Just ignore me if I'm crossing the line here, but Yoj just got hotter.ReplyCancel
Is Vince Gilligan ("Breaking Bad" creator)'s gal (Holly Rice according to wiki) an actress? They've been together a long time. He's huge, esp last night with the show and actors winning. He's got "Better Call Saul" (the spinoff of "BB") coming up next.
Not sure on the girl though.ReplyCancel
p.s., Vince Gilligan is 47.ReplyCancel
But AMC isn't network, is it? IDK.ReplyCancel
@Yoj: These broads aint talkin bout no ass to mouth.ReplyCancel
Emma RobertsReplyCancel
@Yoj: I would think so. Not line crossing, if you never cross any lines, you'll never find out where them sumbitches are. I think it IS a big deal to many. I'm sure there are a few in the class who partake, but they aint admitting to it, for fear of slut shaming from the other women.
It saddens me to see women oppressed by their own kind, but that is what happens. One chick says she enjoys ass to mouth, next thing ya know, all the others hen peck the poor broad cause they feel like they gotta step up their game to keep/land a dude.ReplyCancel


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Large Lakes of the World
The following table lists the large lakes of the world according to size and including information such as name, location, area, length, and depth.
NOTE: Area more than 1,700 sq. mi.
1. The Caspian Sea is called "sea" because the Romans, finding it salty, named it Mare Caspium. Many geographers, however, consider it a lake because it is land-locked.
2. Figures represent high-water data.
3. Varies with the rainfall of the wet season. It has been reported to dry up almost completely on occasion.


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Leveraged Buyouts and Private Equity
Steven N. Kaplan
University of Chicago - Booth School of Business; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)
Per Strömberg
Swedish House of Finance
June 2008
We describe and present time series evidence on the leveraged buyout/private equity industry, both firms and transactions. We discuss the existing empirical evidence on the economics of the firms and transactions. We consider similarities and differences between the recent private equity wave and the wave of the 1980s. Finally, we speculate on what the evidence implies for the future of private equity.
Number of Pages in PDF File: 40
Keywords: Private Equity
JEL Classification: G30
Date posted: August 3, 2008 ; Last revised: January 14, 2009
Suggested Citation
Contact Information


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JetBlue Park at Fenway South | Ft. Myers, FL
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Click the below tabs to get more information regarding the 2017 Fantasy Camp:
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All campers are invited to take part in a two-day event at Fenway Park during the 2017 season. The event is an additional fee ($600 previously) and includes:
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Kelly & Katie Alana Perforated Tote
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- Imported
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In this section, you can search our website for thousands of websites, published articles and publications that relate to Parkinson's, brain and movement disorders. Simply fill in the fields below and hit 'Search' or filter down the options on the navigation menu (on the left) to narrow your search.
Further information may be found by clicking on the links. Links may redirect you away from this site. Links to publications have been created for your convenience to Amazon.co.uk1 or to where the publication may be obtained directly2. Full Terms of Use apply.
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Media Advisory: Visit of UN Secretary-General to Nairobi
Media Advisory may be subject to change. Please see footnotes concerning accreditation.
The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Mr. Ban Ki-moon, will visit Nairobi from Wednesday 30 March to Saturday 2 April 2011 for a meeting of the UN System Chief Executives Board for Coordination (CEB). The CEB meets twice a year and brings together the Heads of 27 UN system organizations (15 specialized agencies, 10 UN Funds and Programmes, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the World Trade Organization (WTO), under the chairmanship of the UN Secretary-General.
During the course of his visit to Nairobi, the Secretary-General will meet with His Excellency Mr. Mwai Kibaki, President of the Republic of Kenya and the Right Honourable Mr. Raila Odinga, Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya, open the New Office Facility of the UN Environment Programme and UN-HABITAT and visit the Olkaria Geothermal Plant in Naivasha.
Details of media events to be held during the Secretary-General's visit that the UN is involved in are as follows. For arrangements for those meetings linked with the Kenyan government and the President and the Prime Minister's offices, please contact the respective press contacts concerned.
1) Arrival at Jomo Kenyatta Airport, Nairobi
What: Photo Opportunity
When: Wednesday 30 March 2011, 20:00 (flight arrives at 20:55)
Where: Presidential Pavilion, Jomo Kenyatta Airport, Nairobi
Who: UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
Mrs. Ban Soon-taek
Hon. Mr. George Saitoti, Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, Republic of Kenya
Mr. Achim Steiner, UN Under-Secretary-General and UNEP Executive Director
Notes: There will be no opportunity for press interviews or media stake-outs at the airport
Media are requested to gather at the Presidential Pavilion at 20:00
2) Launch of the Secretary-General's Report on the 2011 UN General Assembly High Level Meeting on HIV/AIDS
Thirty years after the first diagnosed case of AIDS, a new report of the United Nations Secretary-General evaluates achievements in the 30 years of the global HIV response and sets out recommendations for the way forward. Recommendations in the report will be reviewed by global leaders at this year's High Level Meeting on AIDS, from 8 -10 June 2011 in New York.
What: Press Conference
When: Thursday 31 March 2011, 09:40am
Where: Oak Room, Windsor Golf Hotel and Country Club, Nairobi
Who:Ban Ki-moon, Secretary-General of the United Nations
Michel Sidibé, Executive Director of the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS)
Rebecca Awiti, Women Fighting AIDS in Kenya (WOFAK)
Notes: UNAIDS will be make the report and supporting press materials available to journalists on 31 March at 10:00am
3) On Thursday 31 March 2011, the UN Secretary-General will hold meetings with His Excellency Mr. Mwai Kibaki, President of the Republic of Kenya and the Right Honourable Mr. Raila Odinga, Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya.
For more information, please contact the Office of the President and the Office of the Prime Minister.
4) Opening Ceremony for the New Office Facility of the United Nations Environment Programme and UN-HABITAT
With 6,000 square metres of solar panels, energy saving lighting, natural ventilation systems, rainwater collection and other innovative green features, the new headquarters of UNEP and UN-HABITAT takes sustainability to a new level. His Excellency Mr. Mwai Kibaki, President of the Republic of Kenya will join UN Secretary-General Mr. Ban Ki-moon to officially open the new building.
When: Thursday 31 March 2011, 13:45 to 15:00 (Photo opportunity and press stake-out will be held at 14:55)
Where: New Office Facility, UN complex, Gigiri
Who:His Excellency Mr. Mwai Kibaki, President of the Republic of Kenya
Ban Ki-moon, Secretary-General of the United Nations
Asha-Rose Migiro, Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations
Achim Steiner, UN Under-Secretary-General and UNEP Executive Director
Joan Clos, UN Under-Secretary-General and UN-HABITAT Executive Director
Notes: A bus for journalists will leave Chester House, Nairobi, at 10:00am
Media Accreditation for the opening ceremony will take place at the Visitor's Pavilion at the UN Compound, Gigiri, from 11:00 to 13:00 on Thursday 31 March. Journalists should bring a press card, additional photographic ID and a letter of assignment from their editor. Please note that no media accreditation will be given after 13:00.
Media should also register at this point for the Secretary-General's visit to the Olkaria Geothermal Plant on Saturday 2 April (details below)
5) Visit to the Olkaria Geothermal Plant, Naivasha
Today Kenya generates around 180 Megawatts (MW) of geothermal energy, equal to around 15 percent of the country's total energy generation. Kenya boasts massive geothermal potential (as high as 7000 Megawatts by some estimates), which is a major asset in a country which has no known coal, gas or oil reserves. The UN Secretary-General will tour the Olkaria plant in the company of Hon. Mr. Kiraitu Murungi, Minister of Energy for Kenya.
When: Saturday 2 April 2011, 15:00 to 16:30 (Media stake-out will be held at 16:10)
Where: Olkaria Geothermal Plant, Naivasha
Who: Hon. Mr. Kiraitu Murungi, Minister of Energy for Kenya
Notes: Three buses able to accommodate approximately 30 journalists will leave Chester House, Nairobi, at 11:30am and will be accompanied by the UNEP Spokesperson Nick Nuttall
Media accreditation for the Olkaria visit will take place on Thursday 31 March at the Visitor's Pavilion, UN complex, Gigiri, from 11:00 to 13:00.
Only accredited journalists will be permitted to attend.
Journalists, especially those who may wish to attend using their own transport, should also RSVP to Rebecca Miano, Corporate Affairs Director at Kenya Electricity Generating Co Ltd, on 0722808428 and E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
Media contacts:
For more information on media accreditation, please contact:
Irene Mwakesi, UN Information Centre, Nairobi on Tel. +254 20 762 3677 or E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
Bryan Coll, UNEP/Nairobi on Tel. +254 731 666214 or E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
For more information on the Launch of the Secretary-General's Report on the 2011 UN General Assembly High Level Meeting on HIV/AIDS, please contact:
Esther Gathiri-Kimotho, UNAIDS Nairobi on Tel. +254 722 435 898 or E-mail: email@example.com
Saira Stewart, UNAIDS Geneva on Tel. +41 79 467 2013 or E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
For more information on the Opening Ceremony for the New Office Facility or the visit to the Olkari Geothermal Plant, please contact:
Nick Nuttall, UNEP Spokesperson/Head of Media on Tel. +254 733 632 755 or E-mail: email@example.com
Notes Concerning Accreditation: Please read the media advisory and the comments concerning accreditation. A visit of the UN Secretary-General understandably brings additional issues.
The United Nations cannot guarantee that media wanting to attend in particular the geothermal visit will be permitted to enter if they do not have accredited badges up front.
While we will endeavour to assist those coming under their own steam, they should contact the relevant person at KenGen mentioned above as well as relevant staff at the UN.
For the media at the opening of the New Office Facility at Gigiri on 31 March please come well in time. Accreditation will open at 11:00am. There will be an official ceremony of speeches, followed by a ribbon cutting of an official plaque and a media stake out of ten minutes with the President of the Republic of Kenya and the UN Secretary-General.
During the media stake out press will be invited to move forward and address questions to the two VIPs which will be moderated by Nick Nuttall, the UNEP Spokesperson.
It would be preferred if questions focused on Kenya's quest for a renewable energy economy.
On Saturday, at the geothermal visit, the press buses will visit first a drilling site with the UN Secretary-General and representatives from the Government of Kenya and KenGen. There will then be a visit to geothermal control room followed by a short presentation of speeches and a chance to ask delegates including the UN Secretary-General questions about renewable energy.
This will happen at the end of the visit and may take no more than 10 to 15 minutes: So good and focused questions will be invaluable.


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August 01 2013 10:32PM
It's still the summertime doldrums here at the Nation. With little news expected in the next few weeks before things heat up prior to the season starting articles involve projections, speculation, rumours and British people bombing down hills after a wheel of cheese.
And today we present an article on the new trash button and what it means to society. If you want an article about EV/60 or something else substantiative keep on truckin soldier. If you want to know why we created a trash button that will probably lead to fist fights in the comments section for all eternity read on.
This is an article about the business of the Nation and nothing more. You have been warned.
Back in 2011 the Nation Network signed a landmark advertising partnership with Post Media and OilersNation.com. Under the terms of this agreement the Edmonton Journal sold OilersNation advertising inventory along with it's own EJ inventory to companies all over Northern Alberta and beyond. They are far and away the industry leaders of monetizing news sites so it made perfect sense to try and make something work.
It was a negotiation that dwarfed the Treaty of Versailles in it's complexity, term of negotiation and number of soldiers in attendance. But we got a deal done and it worked pretty darn well.
Until the lockout.
The 2013 lockout was an absolute bitch for any business involved with Professional Hockey to any degree. Bars and restaurants lost money. People who sold hockey apparel lost their shirts* both literally and figuritively. Media folks tasked with covering the NHL sat about twiddling their thumbs and cursing their luck.
And here at the Nation we took it right in the beans. Not so much in terms of traffic - somehow that remained miraculously steady. But more in terms of trying to build our revenues which in turn allows us to continue to lead the league in bloggers under payroll.
We can't count the number of times we heard potential advertisers say "I really like what you guys have to offer here but I want nothing to do with the NHL at all during the lockout. Frankly they can go (words deleted to protect the children.)"
And so we struggled along. We did a wage rollback across the board but didn't let any writers go. We scrambled and sold off organs to fund the burn until the season came back and then we waited for our advertising partnership to start ramping up again.
In our subsequent chats with the EJ they made the very rational observation. "The local market for hockey related advertising is still in the doldrums. We will continue to do our best to move units for you guys but it is going to take some time for things to recover."
"Time for things to recover?" That's all very well and good for a publicly traded media congolomerate with private planes, private executive washrooms and DVDs of Howard Stern's "Private Parts" on every table in the building. But for the Nation Network - a double dog dare turned into a blog turned into a beer - we have no such luxuries.
And so we took the massive gamble of ending our advertising partnership with Post Media back on June 1. That is kind of like quitting your job in Green energy investments to do hockey blogging and other internet jiggery and throwing your entire future down the toilet.**
We rolled the dice and undertook the very risky play to sell our own advertising in house and set about looking for a sales executive. In the meantime your ol' pal Wanye and Co set about selling advertising ourselves and hitting the mean streets of Edmonton advertising proposals in hand.
What makes us think we can do a better job than a building full of sales professionals at Post Media? Passion we suppose. Passion and determination and a lack of brains. While we combed the internets, retained head hunters and offered everyone wearing a suit within 100 miles an interview we were able to land 5 new advertisers and kickstart growth again.
We are very grateful to these advertisers for their support.
You may have noticed that we now have a "negative props" or a trash button on the site now allowing everyone to give the big ol thumbs down to any comment they see fit. This was something we long held off on doing for fear that it will turn into a 24/7 flame war with everyone trashing everyone and calling for permanent bans on the biggest offenders.
Yet "branding a trash button" remained on our list of things we could do to run cool advertising campaigns for advertisers. So one day we sat down and made a list of commercial waste disposal companies we could approach with the idea and got to steppin.
And amazingly the first company we approached thought it was a great idea. The guys over at Construction Waste Disposal saw the value of the concept straight away. "As a company that operates commercial trash bins there are few opportunities to brand ourselves in a memorable way to Albertans. The idea of a trash button - people trashing something and seeing the CWD logo afterwards - is a hilarious idea and reinforces the connection between our company and trash. It's our business and we take it very seriously. Will this campaign result in more awareness for our company and more revenue down the road? Only time will tell. We are thrilled to give it a shot."
The 2013-14 NHL season approaches and it is a make it or break it time for the Nation Network. Coming off a lost season that saw more money lost than Blockbuster Video in its final years we are fully in control of our own destiny. We have finally found the Sales Executive to take us to the next level and he starts on Tuesday. NationHQ is ramping up on the back end with Kent Wilson, Thom Drance and Jon Willis leading the way and getting our content ready to be the top of the pops in the coming season.
We have some deals on the table to add some amazing writers to the other sites and some opportunties in radio and podcasting are back on the table. We are finalizing a deal to buy a website and nearly double our traffic overall. And who knows you may even hear your ol' pal Wanye chitty chatting away in our squeaky pre-pubescent voice in the near future.
Anything and everything will get a good look in our quest to make the Nation into a powerhouse business. This means 100 writers under contract, 100 million pageviews a year and $200k to Edmonton charities annually. Rather than allowing things to recover naturally we are going all in and publicly stating our goals on a website that now gives people the ability to trash what we are saying and will remember our words for all eternity.
We can't overstate how much appreciate everyone reading our sites, buying our gear and paying 1% attention to our ads.
We here at the Nation Network are ready to go.
**See Gretz, Wanye circa 2009.
August 03 2013, 09:28AM
I can trash AND props a single comment?!? Wow that's hilariously stupid! This is going to be a gong show!!
Great marketing idea though! Well done Nation Network, well done.
August 02 2013, 11:14AM
I wish the props and trash buttons were a little bigger. They don't quite jump off the page and straight into my retinas enough as it is.
Solid addition though. Props.
August 02 2013, 11:31AM
Somewhat unrelated (and unwarranted, since I'm an evil Flames fan) but you're an awesome dude, Wayne. I mean that in the most sexually intimate way possible.
August 02 2013, 02:05PM
What a creative idea in micro-advertising.
Beware the trolls that will try to get as many Trashes as possible as a twisted badge of honour.
Maybe you could find a stage props company to sponsor the props button?
Or a propellor-making company?
Real estate company? (i.e. PROPertieS?)
August 05 2013, 04:42AM
Sorry, but I had to trash everyone's post as an inauguration for such a feature.
I wonder if I could trash my own post...
Has everyone forgotten about Dany Heatley?
August 02 2013, 11:59AM
Im thinking Dennis Garbagekoff should be the next Captain of the great and storied Edmonton Oilers. Thank you, and try the fish
August 02 2013, 01:46PM
While I miss the Enders of yesteryear and am nostalgic for the way things used to be when there weren't that many of us posting, by the same toke I'm happy that the site has grown into the success that it is.
It took real stones for these guys to evolve this into the place that it is and if the downside to their success is having a few more trolls online then so be it. Whenever a site gets bigger the level of discourse goes downhill to some extent. It is inevitable.
Just remember the good days and when you see someone trolling then trash the ever loving hell out of them.
First job of new Sales Guru I hope is replacing stinky Lexus background with a more suitable Canadian brand.In a seriousness though, Glad this is growing for everyone involved!
for canucks army they should have it called the Riot It! button instead of trash.
@Young Oil
Totally. I've been a fan of this site for years but in the last 6 or so months it has got a little to troll friendly for my liking. This new trash button, while a good idea, seems to exacerbate the problem.
You're right though, this is a good site for (somewhat) intelligent conversation about The Oilers so I hope we all keep the site classy.
This isn't about having thin skin and not being able to take criticism. Most people here are pretty awesome. I just don't want this site to turn into the TSN comment section where nothing intelligent seems to happen.
First of all, thanks for having one of the best blogs in Edmonton, and all the work that you do. But honestly, I can't say I'm a fan of the negative props button. Before it was implemented, I thought it would be a good idea, but after seeing the results, with about 95% of comments receiving more 'trash' than 'props', I personally think it could do more harm than good to the website.
I completely respect and understand the choice, and doing it for revenue and advertising opportunities is a good reason, but from another perspective, it could really affect how readers view the website.
While the idea of negative props is a good one, people who automatically trash a comment seems to already be becoming a problem. I'm not sure if it's because they do it for their own amusement, because their own comment got trashed, or simply because they think any opinion except their own is garbage, but the fact of the matter is, it is consistently happening. I don't know if it will change in the days and weeks to come, but early signs show the odds are against it.
For me, the main problem is that people comment to get their opinion out there, and naturally want to get a positive reaction. However, seeing people trash everything may make people hesitant about putting their opinion out there, or saying something controversial. It discourages intelligent debate and discussion, which for me is one of the main reasons I visit the site on a regular basis.
Now, I know I'm just one reader, with one opinion, and if I'm in the vast minority, I know this single opinion won't change anything. I completely understand wanting to do what you think is best for the website. But I just wanted to share my opinion, that the 'trash' option makes me less likely to visit the site and comment.
I agree with you. Previously, I would have just prop'd you but now it seems rather pointless. I thought I'd reply instead. It always took a good comment to get someone to prop you and that was a good thing. Now, people are just clicking prop/trash because Oiler Fan. Maybe the novelty will wear off soon and the props and trashes will become more reflective of the actual comment. I hope so.
Oh. I thought it was to show DSF that, contrary to his beliefs, no one agrees with a word he has to say...
August 03 2013, 08:41PM
Need to get to work on the steaming pile of crap option- complete with porta-potty service logo!
August 04 2013, 02:22AM
Speaking as a reader of only FN, I can honestly say the blog is carried by one or maybe two guys. Didn't fire anyone during the lockout? That's the equivalent of not using a compliance buyout because "its not the way to do business" or some other such fiddle-faddle.
I like what I read, even and especially because I think it's wrong most of the time. The blinkered "advanced stats" stuff is fun to read and the aforementioned writers can hold a tune worth listening to in a "live music tonight" sense.
Kudos for going it alone. This is AB, after all: land of the milk and honey of career opportunity. Go drill that Oil! heheheh
August 04 2013, 08:42PM
I have no issue sharing all the his stuff on my Facebook page.
Happy to help spread the good word!
August 14 2013, 07:50PM
I was telling a friend, my father used to put a belt, a stick, a wrench, and a video of the last Bomber game on the kitchen table and say, "Choose". My friend replied his dad hit him with a wrench, and my friend forced a smile. I did an about take and glared at him for a few seconds, then continued: "I used to go with the Bomber game, cuz **** him, that's why!!". My friend started to whimper and cried. He was lost in his own world. That piece of trash ruined my joke.


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text: Loading. Please wait. Kamila Stepanova Basketball Player Profile, Villeneuve D'Ascq ESB Lille Metropole, News, LFB stats, Career, Games Logs, Bests, Awards - eurobasket.com Sign in Europe Albania Armenia Austria Azerbaijan Belarus Belgium Bosnia Bulgaria Croatia Cyprus Czech Rep. Denmark Estonia Finland France FYR Macedonia Georgia Germany Greece Holland Hungary Iceland Ireland Israel Italy Kosovo Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Moldova Montenegro Norway Poland Portugal Romania Russia Scotland Serbia Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden Switzerland Turkey Ukraine United Kingdom North America US Men Pro - ABA - ABL - APBL - CBA - D-League - EBA - EBL - ECBL - ESL - FBA - IBA - IBL - MBL - MPBA - NABL - NBA - NEBA - PBL - TRBL - UBA - UBL Canada - CIS / CCAA - NBLCanada - CBL - NBBL - LBQ US Schools - NCAA1 - NCAA2 - NCAA3 - NAIA - JUCO - HS US Women Pro - WBCBL - WEBL - WNBA - WUBA Latin America Anguilla Antigua Argentina Aruba Bahamas Barbados Belize Bermudas Bolivia Brazil Brit.V.Isl. Cayman Isl. Chile Colombia Costa Rica Cuba Dominica Dominican Rep. Ecuador El Salvador Guatemala Guyana Haiti Honduras Jamaica Mexico Nicaragua Panama Paraguay Peru P.Rico St.Kitts St.Lucia St.Vincent Surinam Trinidad Turks/Caicos Uruguay US V.Isl. Venezuela Asia Middle East Basketball Afghanistan Bahrain Bangladesh Brunei Cambodia China Hong Kong India Indonesia Iran Iraq Japan Jordan Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Kuwait Laos Lebanon Macau Malaysia Maldives Mongolia Myanmar North Korea Nepal Oman Pakistan Palestine Philippines Qatar Saudi Arabia Singapore S.Korea Sri Lanka Syria Taiwan Thailand Turkmenistan UAE Uzbekistan Vietnam Yemen Oceania American-Samoa Australia Cook Islands Fiji Guam Marshall Islands Micronesia Nauru New Caledonia New Zealand N.Mariana Palau Papua NG Samoa Solomon Islands Tahiti Tonga Vanuatu Africa Algeria Angola Benin Botswana Burk.Faso Burundi Cameroon Cape Verde Cent.Africa Chad Congo-Br. DR Congo Egypt Eq.Guinea Eritrea Ethiophia Gabon Gambia Ghana Guinea Guinea-Bissau Ivory Coast Kenya Lesotho Liberia Libya Madagascar Malawi Mali Mauritania Mauritius Morocco Mozambique Namibia Niger Nigeria Rwanda Senegal Seychelles Sierra Leone Somalia South Africa South Sudan Sudan Swaziland Tanzania Togo Tunisia Uganda Zambia Zimbabwe MORE Top Prospects Available Players Available Coaches Transactions Daily Report ESL Camps All Camps Blogs All Events View: Mobile | Desktop Agents Job Market Make IT Pro Player Coach Camps Players Players Agent Coach News Team FOLLOW US: French Basketball Men Women Job Openings (43) Players/Stats Teams/Stats Pro A: Games Pro B: Games NM1: Games NM2 NM3 Transfers Import Players French Abroad French Links French Agents National Team Senior National Team U22 National Team U20/21 National Team U18/19 National Team U16/17 France Internationally Euroleague EuroCup Champions League FIBA Europe Cup Olympic Games World Cup World Champs U19 World Champs U17 Euro Championships Euro Champs U20 Euro Champs U18 Euro Champs U16 Authors: Philippe Burstert Join Us!!! We are looking for someone to help us cover French basketball. Please send us an e-mail. Europe » France (W) » Player: France KAMILA STEPANOVA basketball profile Uniform #: 7 Height: 191cm / 6'3'' Position: Center Born: Dec.3, 1988 Team: Villeneuve (France) (2016-17) Nationality: Czech Republic Agency: Basket Promotion Agency You need to login to see detailed career and stats E-mail: Password: Forgot your password ? just 34 cents per day, the biggest basketball database: - over 430,000 players/coaches profiles - over 22,650 teams. Kamila Stepanova Basketball Career Site Map: Eurobasket.com Member Services: Other Basketball Sites: News Agents Job Market Make-It-Pro Make-It-Coach Available Players Available Coaches Transactions Hall Of Fame Euro Awards Eurobasket Summer League Summer Camps Become A Member My Account / Services Member Support Forgot My Password Change My Password Events History Events Calendar Daily Report Affiliate Program Europe North America Latin America Asia Oceania / Australia Africa Middle East Hoops Agents Blogs About Us Advertise Terms Of Use / Privacy Policy Copyright (c) 1998-2017 Eurobasket Inc. Disclaimer WARNING: Do not copy, redistribute, publish or otherwise exploit information that you download from the site ! Do not encumber, license, modify, publish, sell, transfer or transmit, or in any way exploit, any of the content of the site, nor will you attempt to do so.


text:
On Flames Goalie Prospects and Kevin Lalande
Kent Wilson
March 15 2010 02:49PM
The Abbotsford Heat have won a boatload of games recently, launching them back into the AHL playoff race. The starter for the club over the recent winning streak? David Shantz, a 23 year old free agent signing who was picked-up to fill out the organizations bottom-end. He began the season in the ECHL.
Shantz's recent play has brought him SV% up to a very mediocre .908. Matt Keetley, the oldest of the wannabe puck stoppers, is currently playing in the ECHL himself. He sports the best save rate amongst Flame goalie prospects this year at .912. Leland Irving - former first round draft pick Leland Irving - has also spent time playing his trade in the ECHL this season has seen his sophomore SV% sink to .907 in the AHL.
The Flames struggling goalie futures, and their subsequent dance between leagues caused Jonathan Willis to take a look at Calgary's goalie hopefuls recently. It's not the prettiest picture. Not mentioned in the piece, however, is the departed Kevin Lelande, a guy I started tracking last year after the org dealt him for a 4th rounder. My conclusion at the time was the Flames had probably dealt away their best goalie (future) asset.
Time has done nothing to dissuade me of that opinion. This year, Lalande is the starter for the Blue Jackets AHL affiliate Syracuse Crunch, and although his SV% has fallen to a career worst .911 (yes...that's the worst save rate of his pro career thus far), glancing at the Crunch's other puck-stoppers is revealing:
Dan Lacosta:
Danny Taylor:
Lalande has been head-and-shoulders better than his brethren in Crunch colors this year. One can make the educated guess that Syracuse is a fairly lousy team (they are - second last in the AHL Eastern Conference) based on these numbers and that Lalande's .911 SV%, while middling relative to his prior results, is impressive given the circumstances.
There's little utility in this sort of hindsight hand-wringing, I know. That said, I find it both interesting and informative to evaulate the decision making of the management team and I think it's fair to assign pass/fail type grades to moves when you're a few years removed from them. And, aside from Kipper, everything this org has done crease related since the installation of Sutter (or, as some would argue, since Vernon left) has been a failure to one degree or another. It's not a huge black mark since a lot of NHL teams have troubles evaluating and handling goaltenders, but it is potentially worrisome for a team that is heading into the twilight seasons of it's established (and expensive) starter.
March 15 2010, 03:12PM
everything this org has done crease related since the installation of Sutter... has been a failure to one degree or another
...except for kipper (as you mention), and hiring noodles as the director of goaltender operations (i think his actual title is "head of goaltender development" but the dudes at tsn announced last summer that he'd been named as the "head of goaltender equipment." knowing his penchant for jokin' around, i would presume this was a total stab at a guy with an awesome sense of humour).... ;)
as a further hat-tip to mclennan, joni ortio looks to be pretty sharp for an 18-year-old. his stats don't necessarily support it, but he showed well in both rookie camp and the WJC... i wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him in the CHL next year....


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The Virgin Australia Group of Airlines has today announced sale fares from as low as $59.00 one way between Sydney and the Gold Coast.
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Conditions apply.


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1/ the old way - $OUTPUT->single_button($url, $label, ...) which allows single_button object in first param too
- extremely easy migration from print_single_button() in 1.9
- easy for new ppl that use code completion in IDEs - type $OUUTPUT ==> then you get list of methods ==> then you get all single_button() parameters and links to advanced usage
- make methods are optionally possible too
2/ make factory methods
$OUTPUT->print(single_button::make($url, $label, ...))
- no code completion possible
- totally different from 1.9
- custom OOP style (not in Java or anything else I know)
- Eloy does not like static methods :-P
3/ $OUTPUT->button(html_form::make_single_button())
it has the worst of both worlds
Please submit more cons and pros as comments
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hmm, $OUTPUT->output(something::make())? it does not actually print, just returns string
I am fine with the first one 1/ if we are consistent with the ability to pass the component as the first param. I know Petr already started this way, like in
link($link_or_url, $text = null, array $options = null)
and I think it is a nice compromise between those preferring one-liners and those who prefer explicitness.
The only comment is that $link_or_url violates our coding guidelines as we do not use underscores in variables. I can see the benefit of the exception here, though, so I will be OK with it.
Our documentation then should provide both possible usages:
// explicit style
$link = new html_link();
echo $OUTPUT->link($link);
// one-line style
echo $OUTPUT->link('http://moodle.org', array('property' => 'value'));
Keep talking here, we'll meet about this tomorrow (Wednesday 6th at 4:00pm Perth time, 9am Europe and 9pm Wellington)
My 2 cents:
As far as I can see all three options introduce the same complexities,
Method one we'll end up with a large number of methods against renderers, this reintroduces the mass of methods weblib used to have, one of the things the output was designed to combat.
In saying that we need to have variety somewhere, my preference is towards option 3 ... because ...
- I like type hinting I think it is just a great as autocompletion but at a code level, I would prefer to see flexibilty achieved through various methods against the desired object (in this case a component)
- It results in less clutter against the core renderer
..... hopefully that makes a little sense, at the end of the day I'll be happy with which ever way we go
The only thing I like about method 2 is that we wouldn't need to match apples to apples and buttons to buttons.
On a side note I think we should also try to keep the number of components to a minimum...
Sam, can you elaborate on introducing the mess as the weblib used to have? I can see that 1/ is just convenient shortcut to 3/. Let the code express what I mean:
/** this is hypothetical $output->submission() */
public function submission($submission_or_title, $content = null) {
if ($submission_or_title instanceof submission_component) {
$submission = $submission_or_title; // do we have to use clone() here?
if (func_num_args() > 1) {
debugging('All other params are ignored');
} elseif (is_string($submission_or_title)) {
$submission = new submission_component($submission_or_title, $content);
} else {
throw new coding_exception('Must pass either submission component or title+content');
// and now we can render the submission, this would go to a protected method, probably
return $this->render_submission($submission);
" I would prefer to see flexibilty achieved through various methods against the desired object (in this case a component)" - the problem here is that we can not abstract things with OOP design based on html_components. Take for example user picture - it may be either image or image wrapped in link. The nature of out structures does not replicate the DOM model which is what the html_component is trying to abstract in PHP.
Half the components do not have any relation to the html_component stuff, for example:
- standard_end_of_body_html()
- update_module_button()
- fatal_error()
- htmlattributes()
- rarrow()
- has_started()
I am not agains simple DOM emulation framework which help tremendously with XSS problems, but I do nto think the core_renderer is a place to define it because:
1/ no theme is supposed to override these low level things like printing of  or  tags
2/ use of these really low level methods goes directly against the theme customisation of via renderers overriding - the plugin code should use as few renderer parameters as possible and let the themes decide!!
Ideally renderers should contain really "heavy" methods that do rendering of large chunks of UI code so that theme designers may decide to reinvent these things.
I would personally vote to move out all the html_component stuff from core_renderer and better not use these at all in normal code (understand modules) because using of html_component and children in module code goes directly against easy UI customisations via themes.
I think we should try to imagine the renderers as magic functions that create templates on the fly - we do not actually care how it works inside, or how the data gets printed.
From the API point of view following is important:
1/ to have bigger methods in renderers
2/ to have as many renderers as possible (remember the more methods the easier UI customisations)
3/ to pass enough information to each renderer
If you need example of really useful renderer methods please have a look at login_info(), lang_menu(), doc_link(). These can be easily overridden in themes, they significantly simplify coding because you do not have to copy paste the code over and over again.
Some bad examples are checkbox(), field() - why the hack should we construct such low level things in our code? We have formslib for that (or it least it was supposed to do that). These should definitely not be part of public core_render API. the should live in separate library for rendering of general DOM which would be used from the "real" renderer methods.
Another ugly example is the use of html_form in gradebook reports, that whole custom table enclosed in html_form should be in renderer, this way it can not be altered via themes at all (except the standard CSS), this completely defeats the purpose of renderers IMO.
oh, forgot to mention that the large number of core renderers can be handled by adding core renderer subtyes - such as renderers for group UI, separate renderer for roles UI, etc.
oh, these complex renderer methods in these core renderer subtypes will definitely not accept anything derived from html_component, they accept just some general information not related to HTML DOM and spit out chunk of HTML.
Petr, why not to have an "avatar" (or user_picture) component that is basically a stdclass with properties like userid and link? If link is null, no  wrapper is rendered. The user_picture->prepare() method would just find if the user has uploaded his/her photo or used the default one and would add a protected property $imgsrc or whatever so the renderer just uses it to actually display the image.
I am asking for this because I do not get your note in "the problem here is that we can not abstract things..."
renderer is not not html rendering framework, the idea is to take general parameters and produce some HTML fragment, we should not dictate use checkbox for this, use html select for that use
 or any other DOM element, this decision should be made by the renderer method itself.
Back to the user avatar - it does not matter much how we describe the user and how we give other extra hints, but to me it seems wrong to use HTML DOM abstraction for that because themes may decide to use ANY html markup to actually do that. If we use anything derived from current html_component we add a lot more information than we might expect to the renderer and then any custom theme that decided to render avatars in a different way - such as using "gravatars" for example is screwed. In fact I wanted to pass more user details in - maybe even complete user record:
1/ gravatars need email in order to make hack from it
2/ we might render mnet images with some funny overlay - so mnethostid could be handy too
3/ somebody may decide to add different colour background to avatars based on some other criteria such as user participation
Anything should be possible with the new renderers, unfortunately by using html_component we are making the public API unnecessarily complex for any unexpected customisation. If you do not like how core_renderer::user_picture() works fine, make a new renderer in your plugin and customise it, that is the expected way - not adding tons of useless features and html_component dependencies in core_renderer.
Also for accessibility reasons the avatars should behave in a predictable way - for example link to user course profile or nothing at all. If it links to different place on each page it would be a usability nightmare, it should always open new window or never, etc. That is the reason why we should not encourage customisable link parameter in avatars, if somebody really really needs that they may use normal avatar without link and wrap it. I personally this that the only reasonable extra parameters are: print link and class for image which actually sets the image size.
I now fully understand the desperation of theme designers when developers start inventing "clever" & complex OOP frameworks for printing of html markup
Here is a list of methods that imo do not belong into core_renderer and should be instead abstracted into separate DOM emulation layer:
- field()
- htmlattributes()
- htmllist()
- label()
- select()
- radio()
- span()
- textfield()
these methods should not appear in mod/xxx/view.php or lib.php, those should be used only from renderer methods
Instead they could be moved into separate HTML DOM library that consists of exact emulation of DOM html tree that may be constructed in PHP memory and then simply printed with __toString() call.
As a replacement we would need to add new methods into core_renderer:
- single_select() replaces old popup
- single_textbox() for searching and similar
The half cooked gradebook plugin conversion would be converted to use the new HTML DOM library and later would be properly converted to renderers.
Options in existing core_renderer methods would be updated to support actions too, this was in fact the main reason for supporting single parameter that included actions.
We could try to find some existing PHP DOM emulation library and only extend it a bit, or refactore current html_component and friends.
It is unfortunately that we already did the mass conversion to new OUTPUT, on the other hand I already refactored a lot of the uses while creating specialised methods such as help_icon() or single_button().
Technically we just need to finalise the public API now, and decide if we want the true emulated PHP DOM tree instead of the current lib/outputcomponents.php.
Going to make some examples and sample code usage...
Makes sense to me to remove those methods from core_renderer class. Moodle core_renderer should provide low-level bricks like heading(), container(), box() etc. I am afraid we will need to provide a way for module renderers to somehow generate whatever HTML they want, still. I mean, module renderer must be able to produce any HTML the developer needs (should be a rare case, though).
I am not sure we need a special DOM generator library. On the other hand, that is an implementation detail and such a library should be used by the lowest level of Moodle renderers only.
David, you know to not use "these" low level html building methods from $OUTPUT in your view.php and lib.php, unfortunately other developers do not understand and they think it is perfect to hack complex html forms and advanced UI elements using the html_component stuff directly from view.php....
The separation of DOM emulation is supposed to make it obvious that it is not a renderer because it is not available as $OUTPUT-.> methods, then everybody would see immediately that the renderers are not used properly or at all.
This is not theoretical, we have many examples of incorrect use of $OUTPTU from the recent conversion, and remember those were core developers, imagine contrib devs copy pasting those problematic bits and using them all over their contrib mods instead of creating proper module renderer classes.
I do not think it matters much what kind of api or abstraction we use - the target is that all developers create code that is easy to maintain and easy to customise in themes, developer friendliness is also very important - not everybody understands OOP, ppl tend to copy/paste a lot.
I do seem many proofs in cvs that current design leads to sloppy coding and potential problems in future. I feel confident that my proposed changes will help prevent these problems and both new and old developers could benefit in the long term, theme designers would be positively affected too. Does anybody have arguments other than own personal coding preferences?
1/ original print_checkbox()
The checkbox can not be actually styled by any theme, any change would affect many other places. The checkbox does not have anything to do with current page or theme.
There are several options how to deal with this part of code:
a/ new renderer stored in admin/report/unittest/renderer.pgp which is a plugin renderer and implement method run_test_box($showpasses, $codecoverage, $dbinfos, $selected)
b/ convert the thing to true moodle form using mforms
c/ hardcode normal tags (the really old way)
d/ use the proposed DOM emulation and construct the elements instances and simply convert to string which would just replace
echo '
'; echo $OUTPUT->checkbox(html_select_option::make_checkbox(1, $showpasses, get_string('showpasses', 'simpletest')), 'showpasses') ; echo '
';
echo '
'; echo html_select_option::make_checkbox(1, $showpasses, get_string('showpasses', 'simpletest')) ; echo '
';
Seems like a good discussion that is heading in the right direction without me saying anything. However, I just want to make a few points:
Remember that the main point is that in the future, core_renderer should not really be used much. Modules should have their own renderers that work on a much higher level, for example $forumoutput->discussion(...) that are much more useful for themers to override. (As David said.)
So in a sense, most of what core_renderer is doing is making it easy to convert old code that used to use weblib print_... methods, as a first step in moving towards this future vision. That is, a lot of core_renderer may end up deprecated evenutally, and the key consideration for those parts is making it easy for people to update their code.
The other job for core renderer is providing consistent rendering of certain components that the larger chunks like $forumoutput->discussion(...) need. $OUTPUT->user_picture is a good example of this sort of thing.
My vote goes for this proposal of David's: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-21235?focusedCommentId=79193&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_79193
That is, make $OUTPUT->user_picture take either a user_picture object that lets you control all the options, or it takes a few common options as a short cut - but no more than about 4 common options. If you want to set really complex options, you need to create an object.
That makes nice use of the flexibility that PHP gives us, while at the same time keeping the code easy to read and maintain.
Side comment1: Why the hell are we being renderer-centric instead of component-centric? I always thought that each component (box, button, list, table, header...) was going to support different renderers (core_renderer, workshop_renderer, cli_renderer, pdf_renderer...) instead of having each renderer implementing/overriding some/all the components. Obviously it's too late to change this. Just wanted to side comment it, because it can have implications in my comments below.
Side comment2: IMO we are also having an important overlapping between formslib and outputlib/componentslib and, in the long term... that needs to be solved in a clever way. Else it's, once more, duplicate functionality and, worse, none of them are 100% successful (with formslib missing important rendering possibilities and componentslib missing all the (cool) validation stuff and so on).
Side comment3: I'd delete all those "html_" prefixes from the components. Just let them to be "buttons", "checkboxes", "select menus"... whatever, but without being html ones.
About the current issue:
One of the (potentially) good things of having everything under the $OUTPUT umbrella is that I can, at any moment, create my own complete pdf renderer, text renderer... whatever, then replace $OUTPUT and, voilà, I'll have the page rendered in one different format. I think this is the approach followed by the cli_renderer, useful to perform installations and so on from terminal. In other words, $OUTPUT (the class), has total control over everything (the components and how they are finally rendered). I know this (complete text/pdf generation) is a stupid case right now, just the idea of the renderer being the boss is the key bit.
If we use alternative 2, we are, for sure, losing that point, so the components themselves will be in charge of "rendering" the output. And that's nono (remember? we are (grrr) renderer-centric, so only renderers must be able to generate html (or text or pdf) code).
So we end with alternatives 1 and 3, both pretty similar, and it's about to decide if we want to pass a long_list_of_params (like current stable weblib) or one component object created via factory method, well, I'd say NONE of them (nor both, as commented by David and Tim).
In any case, I'd replace any long_list_of_params by one array_of_params (that avoids being adding params continuously). And in any case, I wouldn't use that "not beautiful" (IMO) static factory "make" at all, If we are instantiating components... let's create them - aka "new Component() - why not? Why do we need to have one static method in one class able to instantiate one object of that class? Sounds a bit strange (and complex) in my OOP mind.
So I think something like this:
function single_button($singlebutton_or_array) {
if ($singlebutton_or_array instance of single_button) {
$singlebutton = $singlebutton_or_array;
} elseif (is_array($singlebutton_or_array)) {
$singlebutton = new single_button($singlebutton_or_array);
} else {
throw new coding_exception('Must pass either single_button component or array');
return $this->render_singlebutton($singlebutton);
Should be enough. So all the components constructors will be, always, one array, with some "clever" method able to apply all the setXXX(), detecting incorrect params and so on. And, in the long term... all the rendered methods should end allowing ONLY objects, with the array part becoming deprecated ASAP (I hate dual-behaviour methods like the one above).
So, summarizing:
1) I don't like long lists of params (that are prone to grow and grow... like current stable weblib has demonstrated along these years).
2) I don't like "make" static methods to instantiate classes. Just instantiate them (new)
3) I don't like "dual-behaviour" methods. In fact, there isn't much justification about having them in 2.0. As far as people already has to change all the weblib calls, differences are minimal (just put the "new xxxx" or no.
4) Let's keep renderers having the control. Don't include any output in he component classes.
Surely I'm saying some idiot things (due to my limited knowledge of the new renderers/components stuff). Just accept my comments as something coming from one developer still not having acquired "bad habits" (foul?) with that stuff, i.e. a "virginal pov". :-P
I like Eloy don't really know that much about what the API is like yet either, but here's what I think:
- How much time does it take to learn the current API? Can we think of any way to cut that down?
- Petr you commented that already people are commiting stuff to HEAD that isn't using the new API properly - can we mitigate this by more obviously splitting stuff into different files? Like put all the methods that people should use into a file, and everything else hidden somewhere with big NOT PUBLIC API messages at the top? Wiki pages are good but lots of us read the code and clear separation of what methods to use in one file and everything else somewhere else will probably help. ( and wiki pages too of course )
- I tend to agree with David's example of a function that is flexible in what it accepts and also I don't like the static make functions much. Either pass a new object with all the complete things set up , or pass a few sensible parameters (as Tim stated earlier). Definitely agree about methods that have many many parameters, I hate that.
- I am not sure about this component/renderer thing but if the purpose is like Eloy states, to have different renders to match different output types (html/xhtml/pdf/text/cli/xml/leap2a ( ) etc then clearly the html bit should go in the renderers , not in the components, and also html_ prefix should be removed as well.
Hope that helps!
I always thought that each component (box, button, list, table, header...) was going to support different renderers (core_renderer, workshop_renderer, cli_renderer, pdf_renderer...) instead of having each renderer implementing/overriding some/all the components. – Eloy
Component is just an object that describes the thing to be displayed. Scripts like view.php are responsible for preparing such objects. Then they are passed to a method of a renderer. Current theme decides which renderer is used (given that other factors influence this - like CLI mode). Module level renderers like workshop_renderer are not expected to render low level things like box, button, list, table or header. They provide methods to render high level things like posts, submissions, activity introduction etc. So it make sense to have
$submission = workshop_get_submission();
$workshopoutput = $PAGE->get_renderer('mod_workshop');
echo $workshopoutput->submission($submission);
but it does not make sense to ask $workshopoutput to render heading(), for example. Headings, boxes, lists, tables and other low level blocks should be rendered consistently within the current theme. We do not want allow modules to override these. That is IMHO why they went into core_renderer.
And, in the long term... all the rendered methods should end allowing ONLY objects, with the array part becoming deprecated ASAP
This may look as a nice design decission but it is not practical. For trivial components like headings or user pictures which has just two or three properties, explicit style is annoying
$heading = new stdclass();
$heading->text = 'Hello world';
$heading->level = 2;
echo $OUTPUT->heading($heading);
compared with intuitive
echo $OUTPUT->heading('Hello world', 2);
In any case, I'd replace any long_list_of_params by one array_of_params
I do not agree. Mandatory parameters (or frequently passed ones) should be real parameters with type constraints where possible. This allows IDE to display hints and type-control of the passed parameters. Other optional parameters can go into $options. I like Petr's way of doing this. Compare the following two rendering methods:
public function avatar(array $properties) { }
public function avatar($userid, $courseid=0, stdclass $user=null) { }
IMO the second interface is self-documenting. IDEs are able to show you the list of method params while typing its name and I do not need to open the function description everytime just to read the list of keys acceptable via $properties array.
Yeah, I agree about $parameters or $properties being bad, I don't like that way at all
I agree with David and Penny when it comes to a properties array being used, I'm not a fan of that at all, every time you encounter a new function like that the only really good way to learn what is possible is to follow the coding path that the array takes.... but then I don't think that passing miles of parameters is the way either, as Eloy commented on parameters will always grow.
In the example above trivial can quickly become not so, someone out there will give want to give headings classes, id's for styling or JS behaviours, any possible attribute. HTML5 which we will hopefully see within the lifetime of Moodle 2 will see the relevant list of attributes grow significantly).
For small methods accepting n-args possibly; for many methods some sort of organisation or structure is surely required, which I thought was why we had components.
I don't think DOM methods should be removed from the core_renderer, unless they are simply moved to a special renderer that core has access to, as I agree with Penny in that all HTML should pass through renderers.
As for removing the `html_` prefix, sure why not less typing, but I don't think all components will be HTML components. I'm wasn't here when the output changers were being planned but from what I gathered from reading through the code and the conversion of weblib methods I gathered that components were simply grouped/reliant output. In the simplest example this could be a tag and content, in the more complex components a collection of tags, JavaScript actions and content.
In general:
- I thoroughly agree with Eloy's 4 summarising points.
- I agree with Penny html from renderer not components
- I could live without make methods, they are were only a convenience.
- I am all for renaming things that contain an obvious/irrelevant prefix or suffix
I'm going back and forth on the parameters issue. Thanks for all the great viewpoints posted so far, they are really helping.
Some things I am pretty sure of:
- I really don't like the idea of the first parameter being an object OR a string, etc. That's just messy.
- It seems sensible to TRY and make this as close to the $DB API as possible.
- I quite liked the way Tim was defining components/objects in view.php and then passing them. I think that was very self-documenting and made the code easy to debug. Readability is important in the code, as much as informing the IDE.
- I do see how the component data structures can get more complex in the modules,
- I don't think I like the make factory stuff. Bit too much magic.
Overall I'm leaning towards something like this design:
1) Always use one component object parameter for the render methods, all the time. The component do not need to be a full class with methods unless absolutely necessary, they might just be an array or simple data object.
For simple cases:
$mycomponent = new object();
$mycomponent->something = "somevalue";
$mycomponent->somethingcomplex = complex_thing_generator('a', 'b');
echo $OUTPUT->somerenderer($mycomponent);
and for more complex ones, if necessary:
$mycomponent = new mycomponent();
$mycomponent->set_properties('a','b','c','d'); // or however the component needs to be created
echo $OUTPUT->somerenderer($mycomponent);
2) For the simpler core render methods with only a few parameters, provide a consistently-labelled second short-hand function.
echo $OUTPUT->somerenderer_simple('a','b','c','d');
And this function just generates a component internally to pass to the real function in (1).
The issue was discussed in the chat room - see http://moodle.org/mod/cvsadmin/view.php?conversationid=3937
David and Petr are going to prepare a wiki page with examples/tutorials for core devs, plugins/modules devs and (later) themers.
For reference: http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Output_renderers
Great to hear! Can you please make sure you document it fully at http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Output_renderers ?
We need something to point all developers to.


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