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Skip to comments.14 Years Later, Mystery Still Remains in the Death of Vince Foster
Posted on 07/22/2007 4:36:02 AM PDT by GFritsch
14 yers ago today, on July 20, 1993, the body of Vincent Walker Foster, Jr. was found in a Virginia park, next to a civil war cannon, with an unidentified revolver lodged in the right hand. Vincent Foster died of a small-caliber gunshot wound to his head.
Vince Foster was not only deputy White House counsel but also the personal attorney to Bill and Hillary Clinton. On the night of Fosters death, top Clinton aides made a frantic effort to enter and remove documents from his West Wing office. In the days that followed, federal investigators were stymied in their investigation of Fosters office and strange death.
The following happened within weeks of his death. Vince Foster finally files the missing Whitewater tax returns. On July 19, FBI director William Sessions is fired. Clinton personally orders him by phone to turn in his FBI property and leave headquarters.
That evening, Clinton security aide Jerry Parks' wife Jane says she overhears a heated telephone conversation with Vince Foster in which her husband says, "You can't give Hillary those files, they've got my name all over them."
On July 20, Clinton names Louis Freeh as Sessions' successor.
That same day, the FBI raids David Hale's Little Rock office and seizes documents including those relating to Capital-Management.
Just hours after the search warrant authorizing the raid is signed by a federal magistrate in Little Rock, Vince Foster apparently drives to Ft. Marcy Park.
Foster was found dead of an apparent gunshot wound to the head in Ft. Marcy Park. His unoccupied car, a 1989 Honda, was found in the park's parking lot. Several witnesses - before and after the arrival of the park police - have claimed they saw a briefcase in Foster's car.
A so-called suicide note was found in an office briefcase that had been searched and found to be empty after Fosters death. The note was torn into 27 pieces. Yet an FBI examination found no trace of Fosters fingerprints on the note and three independent handwriting experts determined that Foster's suicide note, was a forgery.
The Raid of Vince Fosters Office While the U.S. Park Police studied the body, Foster's office at the White House was being looted.
Secret Service agent Henry O' Neill watched as Hillary Clinton's chief of staff, Margaret Williams, carried boxes of papers out of Vincent Foster's office before the Park Police showed up to seal it, yet the official identification of Vincent Foster's body by Craig Livingstone did not take place until 10PM!
Another Secret Serviceman saw Craig Livingston remove items from Vincent Foster's office in violation of the official seal. Witnesses also saw Bernard Nussbaum in Foster's office as well. Three witnesses noted that Patsy Thomason, director of the White House's Office of Administration, was desperate to find the combination to Vincent Foster's safe. Ms. Thomason finally opened the safe, apparently with the help of a special "MIG" technical team signed into the White House in the late hours. Two envelopes reported to be in the safe by Foster's secretary Deborah Gorham, addressed to Janet Reno and to William Kennedy III, were never seen again. When asked the next day regarding rumors of the safe opening, Mack McLarty told reporters Foster's office did not even have a safe, a claim immediately shot down by former occupants of that office.
The next day, when the Park Police arrived for the official search of Vincent Foster's office, they were shocked to learn that Nussbaum, Thomason and Williams had entered the office. Conflicts channeled through Janet Reno's Department of Justice resulted in the Park Police merely sitting outside Foster's office while Bernard Nussbaum continued his own search of Foster's office. During this search, he opened and upended Vincent Foster's briefcase, showing it to be empty. Three days later, it would be claimed that this same briefcase was where the torn up suicide note was discovered.
The boxes of documents removed from Foster's office by Hillary Clinton's chief of staff, Margaret Williams, were taken to the private residence area of the White House! Eventually, only 54 pages emerged.
One set of billing records, under subpoena for two years, and thought to have originated in Foster's office, turned up unexpectedly in the private quarters of the White House, with Hillary's fingerprints on them.
So, who ordered the office looting?
Bill Clinton was unavailable, being on camera with Larry King. But Hillary Clinton, who had only the day before diverted her planned return to Washington D.C. to Little Rock, was on the phone from Little Rock to someone at the White House in the moments before the looting took place.
The death of Vince Foster is very unsettling. There is an amazing amount of inconsistent information surrounding his death, the investigation and the autopsy. And, of course, his close relationship with Hillary was intriguing. Many books have claimed that the two were lovers for several years.
To date, several unanswered questions still remain. What did the White House know and when did they know it? Another question: If Foster was not identified as a White House official until at least an hour and a half after police arrived, why were police officers associated with an elite federal unit on the scene within 45 minutes? Evidence suggests that White House officials were informed of Foster's death, at least an hour before they claim to have been initially notified.
The FBI never officially investigated the case but simply signed off on the Park Police "probe." The bureau had little choice.
Later, Robert Fiske, selected by Clintons counsel Bernie Nussbaum and Janet Reno, quickly confirmed the Park Police probe as a suicide. Yet, no fewer than three of the paramedics on the scene indicated in reports or testimony that the crime scene was consistent with a murder scene, not a suicide.
? A careful FBI microscopic investigation of Fosters shoes found not a trace of soil or grass stains on them, though he supposedly walked several hundred yards through wooded Fort Marcy Park to where his body was found. [Years later, Starrs investigation found plenty of soil and grass stains. Rodriguez charged that the shoes were tampered with to produce such "evidence."]
? Foster was found with little blood around his body and despite claims that he fired the gun into his mouth, practically no blood was found on the front of his shirt.
? Foster was found with a 1913 revolver no one in his family could claim, with two serial numbers, made from the parts of three or more guns. None of Fosters fingerprints were found on the gun. The bullet that supposedly killed Foster was never found, despite intensive searches.
? The first witness to find the body insisted that there had been no gun near the body. The memory in Foster's pager had been erased. Critical evidence began to vanish. Many witnesses were harassed. Others were simply ignored. There were even suggestions that the body had been moved, and a Secret Service memo surfaced which reported that Foster's body had been found in his car! The official reports were self-contradictory.
? All of the X-rays taken during the autopsy are missing. Complete crime scene photos dont exist. The Park Police said all the photos were "accidentally" overexposed. A series of close-up Polaroids, which Favish is suing for, remain.
? A briefcase in the car of Vincent Foster was removed after U.S. Park Police arrived at his death scene. The briefcase, which may have carried important documents, was never listed on official evidence reports compiled by park police who conducted the first investigation into the White House deputy counsel's death.
Hillary Clinton was trying to gain leverage over her husband, possibly in relation to future divorce proceedings. It is possible Mrs. Clinton wanted to get to the bottom of persistent rumours about her husband's philandering before subjecting herself and her daughter to the media glare of a presidential campaign. At the time, Mrs Clinton and Vince Foster were partners at the Rose Law firm.
Did Hillary Clinton have an affair with Little Rock lawyer Vincent Foster? According to retired Arkansas State Trooper Larry Patterson, "There is no doubt in my mind that there was a long, ongoing sexual relationship between Hillary Clinton and Vince Foster."
Patterson, who guarded the Clintons for more than six years, made the new disclosures on the audiotape set "More than Sex: The Secrets of Bill and Hillary Clinton Revealed"
Patterson said that on one occasion, at a birthday party for Hillary Clinton, he saw Foster touch Hillary in private areas of the body twice. Patterson said his belief about Hillary and Vince was formed after years of observation during the frequent meetings between the two, when Bill was out of town, and the stories of other troopers.
Patterson gives eyewitness details of several occasions upon which he saw Vince and Hillary in compromising situations.
On the day of Vince Fosters death, Patterson said he learned about the death before the Park Police even found Fosters body and hours before the White House said they were informed. Pattersons information, corroborated by another trooper, exposes a cover-up bigger than Watergate.
A case arose from an overall conspiracy to obstruct justice in connection with federal investigations into the death of deputy White House counsel Vincent W. Foster.
Patrick Knowlton was in Ft. Marcy Park the afternoon that Vincent Foster died. What Knowlton saw and what happened to him afterwards is one of the most disturbing stories of the whole Clinton saga. You can read the testimony here
Miguel Rodriguez was a prosecutor on the staff of Kenneth Starr. His attempts to uncover the truth in the Vincent Foster death case were repeatedly foiled, and he was the subject of planted stories undermining his credibility and implying that he was unstable. Rodriguez eventually resigned.
After learning of Fosters death, Jane Parks, the wife of Jerry Parks claims that her husband said, "I'm a dead man". Parks had collected detailed data on Clinton's sexual escapades, including pictures and dates. His wife claims federal agents subsequently removed his files and computer, and that Bill Clinton still owed him $81,000.
(Note. Two months later, Jerry Parks is found murdered gangland-style )
I posted it trying to show 'This is compounded by the fact the family seems to be satisfied with the results.'.
I really don't think a wife crying by her husband's grave is a Clinton hit piece.
I wouldn't doubt the Rose Law firm remarks are...but my post was in reference to Lisa's state of mind.
The main point here is that many of us believe the Clintons had Foster killed. We also believe that all of those 50 plus bodies that are lying in their hasty wake enroute to the White House were murdered.
Putting these felons in the W-H for another term would be like letting Teddy drive young girls home (or wherever) drunk.
Then there's Madeleine Albright and the surgeon general, Jocelyn Elders.
I stood at that spot with Patrick Knowlton one Saturday. He went through the details of the day and the events after that day. He told us about the interviewe by the FBI and the days in court.
They exchanged hellos and then the White House couple went on their way.
As they were driving on to their final destination, Bill put his arm around Hillary and said, "Well, honey, if you had stayed with him, you would now be the wife of a service station owner."
She smirked and replied, "No! If I had stayed with him, HE would be the President of the United States!"
We reached the infernal depths with the clintonistas.
I cannot believe anyone could possibly conceive of putting these criminals in the WH again.
Where's Craig Livingstone today and what is he doing for a living?
He fell off the face of the earth? Seriously does anyone know...?
The factual errors/misstatements reveal the author's interest in whitewashing the Clinton's.
I suspect we'll see more of these stories as Hillary moves towards the White House.
(And unless a tsunami such as 9-11 hits again, she has it in the bag :^( ....)
We reached the infernal depths with the clintonistas.
I cannot believe anyone could possibly conceive of putting these criminals in the WH again."
I say this because (A) the Constitution will limit your terms if you ascend to the presidency through unelected means (death, impeachment, or resignation of the elected president) and (B) Hillary is saying that Bill will have powers as she did in his White House.
This is clearly a violation of the intent of this amendment.
Push the Constitutional Crisis question in the debates. "How can you legally serve AGAIN?" NO THIRD TERM.
Also the public is getting sick and tired of alternating oligarchies of the Clintons and the Bushes.
Also the public is getting sick and tired of alternating oligarchies of the Clintons and the Bushes.
Yeah but even moreso - the public is sure sick of the Dems controlling Congress!
If the Clinton's are never held accountable....then this is all a farce. JMO.
I tried the Wikipedia thing, and there's scant mention of him then, let alone now.
I understand that Hilary is famous for going off on Blacks and Jews.
I am half expecting a tape to surface during this campaign where she is caught cussing Blacks and Jews.
From the Starr report:
"In debris collected from Mr. Foster's clothing, the FBI Laboratory reported finding two blond to light brown head hairs of Caucasian origin that were suitable for comparison purposes and dissimilar to those of Mr. Foster. the hairs did not appear to have been forcibly removed. Hair evidence can become important or relevant in a criminal investigation when there is a known suspect and a significant evidentiary question whether the suspect can be forensically linked to another person (a rape or murder victim, for example) or to a particular location. If the suspect is a stranger to the victim or the scene, the presence of the suspect's hair is relevant in assessing whether he or she had contact with the victim or scene. In this case, however, the only known individuals who reasonably might have been compelled to provide hair samples were persons already known to have had contact with Mr. Foster."
Also they found that he had dined very recently and had drank wine.
From the Starr Report:
"During the 1993 investigation, the laboratory of the Virginia Division of Forensic Science found that the blood, vitreous humor, and urine were negative for alcohols and ketones. The Laboratory did not detect "phencyclidine, morphine, cocaine, [or] benzoyleogonine"; "other alkaline extractable drugs"; or "acidic [or] neutral drugs."
Notice the Livingstone reference
BUBBA BAILOUT BID - YOU (that means the US taxpayers)MAY GET $3.5M TAB FOR BILL-HILL SCANDAL FEES
from the NY Post September 18, 2002
Brian Blumquist
Clinton scandal players seeking money from Uncle Sam to cover their lawyers' fees:
Bill and Hillary Clinton - $3,549,561
Monica Lewinsky - $1,165,390 - former intern at center of Sexgate
Vernon Jordan - - $302,719 - Clinton pal helped Lewinsky find lawyer and job
Susan McDougal - $345,412 - Whitewater partner
Bruce Lindsey - $245,023 - Clinton trouble fixer
Ken Bacon - $10,780 - Pentagon spokesman dished dirt on Linda Tripp
Cliff Bernath - $6,093 - Bacon's deputy
Bennie Beard - $7,500 - involved in appraisal of investigated land deal
Gloria Cabe - $28,135 - Clinton campaign manager in 1990
Glenda Cooper - $6,300 - involved in Branscum trial, an offshoot of Whitewater
Harry Denton - $1,451 - Arkansas banker and Whitewater bit player
Kevin Fornshill - $11,560 - cop who discovered Vince Foster's body
Bill Henley - $7,500 - Susan McDougal's brother
Robert Hill - $5,000 - banker accused of illegally funneling money to Clinton
Ellen Kulka - $862 - general counsel in Resolution Trust Corp. probe of Whitewater
Dan Lasater - $863,095 - never charged in drug-trafficking investigation
Craig Livingstone - $235,299 - White House security man ordered up FBI files on GOPers
Anthony Marceca - $189,968 - also investigated in FBI-files probe
Matthew Moore - $84,790 - junior White House staffer worked for Clinton travel chief William Watkins
Bayani Nelvis - $18,850 - White House usher pressed to talk about Clinton-Lewinsky
Michael Schaufele - $242,438 - Accountant for Clinton friend Webster Hubbell
Nicholas Stonnington - $47,419 - Merrill Lynch consultant hired Hubbell
Ginny Terzano - $528 - Former press aide to Bill Clinton and Al Gore
Patsy Thomasson - $31,273 - Watkins' deputy at time of Travel Office firings
William Watkins - $129,583 - Travel chief said Hillary pressured him to fire workers
William Watt - $72,229 - one-time target in Whitewater
Betsey Wright - $166,581 - custodian of records in Clinton's 1990 campaign
The public didn't vote to empower the Democrats in Congress, they voted to unempower the Republicans in Congress. The DNC proclaimed it a mandate and has p!ssed off the public holding over 600 partisan witchhunt "investigations".
It isn't what the public wanted.
And you have to wonder about public support for raising the minimum wage. We are told that we need to permit illegal immigrants to enter the country because we need a source for low-income workers. Workers who are paid below the minimum wage.
Craig Livingstone did exist...and Al Gore knows something too. (hope this isn't too long but it's a blast from the past and worth it)
SECTION: LIFESTYLE, Pg. H1
LENGTH: 1688 words
They call him ''The Mayor of the White House.''
Craig Livingstone strolls from one corner of America's most famous residence to another, greeted with waves and ''hi's'' from staffers and security people. Every 10 minutes or so he stops — sometimes in mid-sentence — to respond to his beeper, usually beckoning him to put out one sort of fire or another as he carries out his duties as Director of Personnel Security at the White House.
The buzz word in his conversations is ''situation'' — as in ''yesterday's situation,'' ''today's situation'' and ''the other situation.''
Following him around the White House is a lesson in navigation in exclusive waters. Keep your eyes and ears open, know when to keep your mouth closed, recognize the players, get the picture quickly, be nice and smile are the lessons learned early on.
Livingstone, a former Indiana University of Pennsylvania student and 1977 graduate of Beaver High School, is a member of the White House's ''second tier of staff'' as he puts it. Among his duties are doing background investigations on staffers and checking out those requesting press credentials, being the liaison with the Secret Service and the FBI on personnel security and helping stage events attended by President Clinton, such as the recent signing of the Middle East Peace Accord.
''Basically my job is to stay out of the way and be invisible. If I'm around, something's wrong.'' At only 35, he's a political veteran with major responsibilities and access to the power brokers in the White House. It's not unusual for him to confer with senior policy adviser George Stephanopoulos (''he's brilliant,'' Livingstone says), chief of staff Mack McLarty and other big guns from the president's inner circle. He sees the president almost daily and — along with other staffers — sits in on an occasional meeting with him.
Livingstone, who lives in suburban Maryland, leaves this week for London where he will do preliminary work in coordinating the June presidential visit to mark the 50th anniversary of D-Day. He oversaw the burial of Virginia Kelley, the president's mother, and was asked to coordinate the president's role at Richard Nixon's funeral, which he was unable to do because of a personal commitment elsewhere.
Stephanopoulos, who has worked with Livingstone since Clinton's presidential campaign, gives him high marks. ''He does a terrific job. All I know is that anything that has anything to do with security or logistics — Craig's going to take care of it. You don't have to tell him how to do it, when to do it. Just that it needs to be done, and he does it. And he knows how to cut through the bureaucracy and get things done.''
There are sometimes problems attached to getting things done. Livingstone readily admits ''we had been remiss in the quickness of getting people cleared'' for some jobs, especially early on. He explains that the hiring and investigation process hit a lot of snags due to staff transition and unexpected kinks in the system.
This past March Livingstone's venue was Pittsburgh as a member of the team to plan the visit of Clinton and British Prime Minister John Major. Arriving days in advance he ensconced himself at the Tin Angel restaurant on Mount Washington where the leaders were to dine. Then the work began. Checking out exits and people, directing the installation of 17 phone lines, even opening stuck doors and later, checking to see that the bill for dinner had been paid (it had) were among his tasks.
''He and 15 people on the advance team showed up with business cards and credentials. Craig was real businesslike and pleasant but I wouldn't want to be on his bad side,'' said Maria Kyros, the restaurant's co-owner.
Kyros got a taste of Livingstone's access to the president when ''one night at 11 o'clock his private phone rang. Only the president's office calls him on that phone and when it rang he said, 'that's the big guy' and left the room to take the call.'' It was the president's operator asking a question for Clinton.
In April, Livingstone was back in the area (his grandfather still lives in Ellwood City though his parents have moved to Maryland) to speak at an education conference at IUP. Not one to forget where he came from, he recently set up a White House internship program for an IUP student.
''He had a great deal of poise and was well-versed in terms of what's going on at the White House and administration policy,'' said Robert McGowan, acting associate dean, College of Fine Arts, at the college. He remembers Livingstone well and has kept in touch with him off and on over the years.
Teachers tend to recall the bright students but McGowan said Livingstone was ''persistent, not intimidated by authority,'' as well as smart. ''He had some sense of vision for himself and a passion for politics. So I wasn't surprised when he called me about six months ago about the intern program,'' McGowan said.
That passion has been simmering for years. ''When I was 15 I said I wanted to work in the White House. People laughed but I developed strong political skills like getting people to work together who don't like each other but are exceptionally good at what they do.''
As a student leader (national vice president of the U.S. Student Association) he went to Poland during the initial push for Solidarity and was invited to address students there and meet Lech Walesa.
Livingstone now has an office in the Old Executive Office Building across from the White House. But in his student days he was often on the other side of the fence — literally — carrying a picket sign. He did his share of demonstrating at the White House ''many times'' against President Reagan's financial aid policies, education issues and in support of organized labor.
His professional career in Democratic Party politics began when he worked on the personal staff of Geraldine Ferraro (''I took care of the bags'') during her vice presidential campaign and on Gary Hart's staff during his presidential bids in 1984 and 1988. In addition to doing whatever was needed on campaign stops Livingstone said, ''I always had a clean shirt or blouse for them. Every politician likes to get into a clean shirt. Those are the things they remember.''
In between campaigns he held jobs as diverse as doing public relations for a casino in Atlantic City and the film ''The Last Temptation of Christ,'' serving as assistant to Washington City Council member Charlene Jarvis and training Angolan guerrilla soliders in democratic politics in advance of an election there. He was also director of operations for the Democratic Convention in Atlanta in 1988.
Impressing the right people in the right way got Livingstone the job as director of security for Clinton's inaugural celebration. Al Gore had ''known about me through the grapevine.'' Gore asked Livingstone to put together his announcement to run for the presidency in 1988. He was on Gore's advance team in 1992. And on solid ground with Clinton and Gore high-level staffers.
Livingstone's beeper was working overtime while on the job with former Arkansan/current Hollywood producer Harry Thomason during the inaugural festivities, and got his current job one week after the swearing in.
''He's very level-headed ... patient and professional. You need those attributes in a job like his. He's someone who excels when it's a crisis situation,'' said deputy press secretary Ginny Terzano.
Although there is not a crisis every day, one suspects Livingstone would like there to be one. In the meantime, he's popping in and out of the White House senior staff dining room (''the mess'' as regulars call it), walking by the Oval Office, criss-crossing the Rose Garden and arranging special White House tours and other hard-to-get tickets for appreciative friends and acquaintances.
McGowan and his parents were the recipients of this generosity on a recent trip to Washington. They sat in the presidential box at the John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for Performing Arts, compliments of Livingstone. ''My parents actually sat in president and Mrs. Clinton's seats,'' McGowan said. To say they were all thrilled is putting it mildly.
Also in the D.C. area, is Livingstone's brother, Steven, an engineer, a political appointee in the Department of Energy working on hazardous environment issues. He, like his parents, is a Republican.
Livingstone tries to squeeze in time for bicycling and going to movies — his passion. And while he's winning friends and influencing people in the nation's capital, he's gearing up for another campaign — to find someone in the girlfriend/ wife/mate/date category.
''I'm ready, it's my next project after I leave this job,'' he said. Working 12 and 15 hours a day, six and seven days a week isn't the best arrangement for building a social life. ''I meet women just like me. They put themselves and their careers first, they're goal-oriented. Most of us are here because we believe in the president's agenda.''
That agenda is presently focused on dealing with the latest round of sexual misconduct charges not to mention Whitewater and cattle futures trading. Do these charges discourage Livingstone?
''I am a presidential staffer and I understand that role. I believe in the fundamental vison he has for America and there will always be distractions associated with any president. I see him daily and while I'm concerned about (the charges), I believe in the president 100 percent.''
Livingstone, having observed the president up close for more than two years, says Clinton ''is very focused, caring and impassioned. He has an amazing ability to remember people's names. You don't dare meet with him without being prepared because very often he'll know more about the subject than you.''
Livingstone knows he's existing in a unique environment that won't last forever. After this stint in Washington, he believes his next direction will be due west — as a producer in Hollywood. If that happens, he'll no doubt arrive with enough experience to make a new niche for himself — beeper required.
They were helped by communism.
I believe that Hillary (everything about her background is a bald-faced lie) and Bill are star-crossed lovers. Red Star, that is.
They were selected by the USSR to get a start in American politics, and where else but good ole Arkansas where Billy was born to a woman who had no idea who his father was.
Hillary is touted as being from an upper-middle class family, but they were a household of losers.
Where the money came from to put these two marxists through the 'best' schools is a mystery. The leftist Senator Fulbright helped Bill along, but it was at the bidding of his handlers.
Bill was positioned to become attorney general of Arkansas at a salary of about $10M/year then the voters moved him into the governor's mansion where the $16M salary would't buy much, but everything else was furnished including a nanny to tend to little Chelsea.
When the USSR started to fall apart, the Communist Chinese picked up the contract and proceeded to move into Little Rock by buying the Worthen Bank in order to be close to their two proteges.
These two are communist agents, let there be no doubt about that.
Hillary failed the bar exam in DC as well -—kept it hidden for 30 years
from The Australian June 7, 2007 Thursday
HEADLINE: Hillary blamed for some of Bill's worst errors
"Some members of the White House staff say she uses her religiosity as a cover for her faults. Some see it as a mask in her relationship with her husband "She elevates her staying with (Clinton) to a moral level of biblical proportion"
Many were convinced that longtime friend and defence counsel Vince Foster, who later committed suicide, worshipped Hillary from the start. Those who knew them best doubted that they had had an affair. One friend wasn't sure:
"He loved Hillary. I hoped they had an affair. I think they both deserved it. They both had complicated spouses, complicated marriages"
Hillary, said an aide, "hates the fact that Bill Clinton cheats on her, and that he doesn't need her as much as she wants. And he's weak. She's a very judgmental Methodist from the Midwest. As much as they talk about loving the sinner, they actually also despise a part of the sinner. They hate the weakness. They hate the part of the person who can't toe the puritan line."
Hillary knew marrying Bill would mean living in Arkansas and forgoing a prestigious job in Washington or New York. At Bill's urging, she sat the Arkansas bar exam which she passed. She also sat the DC bar exam, but she failed - a fact she kept hidden for 30 years and took as a sign to marry Bill "When I learnt that I passed in Arkansas but failed in DC, I thought maybe my test scores were telling me something"
I took care of the bags
.... he held jobs as diverse as doing public relations for a casino in Atlantic City and the film The Last Temptation of Christ,...
Where to begin?
What a tissue of lies this puff-piece is.
He did everything he was asked to do. He took care of the bags alright. His Atlantic City job was as a bouncer and it's not surprising that he did the PR for the sacreligious Last Temptation mess.
Hillary didn't know him. Bill had no idea who hired him.
Sean Hannity is supposed to air a segment tonight (Sunday) at 9:00 PM Eastern on the VF case.
Please cite evidence to support what the son said. On this thread his wife said it was his father's hand gun.
What mystery?
V.F. was killed under the direct orders of either a) the scum that was president, or b) the "scum-ette" that is about to be president. It does not matter at all by whom.
However, screaming this to all those on this website, or proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt so that even the main stream media would have no choice but to believe will have little to no effect in the real world.
And the "scum-ette" (and additionally, either an accessory to the fact or a murderess) will indeed be the next president.
Wonder what that tells us about this country?
Quite the opposite. It was very apparent that he was suffering from depresion. One obvious sign of this was that he called his physician a few days earlier in order to get treatment for depression.
There is no mystery,for one reason or another he pissed hillary off.
Reference your last paragraph. Your assessment is 100% correct.
98% of all Americans are either too stupid or too complacent to know or care about what is happening.
The biggest mystery is, how many millions of dollars did the scumbag Clintons pay to Foster's wife to keep her mouth shut?
Great post!
I would add that the Ford Building archives on the Clinton scandals are available to be viewed by all Congressmen. Any Congressman could go public with whatever he saw. So far, from Republicans in Congress: (crickets)
This obstruction should disqualify her from government office.
Watch out now folks. There are people that work for Obama and maybe even Edwards that are willing to attack other liberals for their candidate. Someone might release some really signicant stuff soon.
Teddy probably now has a driver so he can get the young girls home safely
Just another nail in her coffin...
Hillary didn't know him. Bill had no idea who hired him.
Oh yeah...did you notice that punk Stufinenvelopeslos' comment?
This guy Livingston was specifically hired to do the BJ's bidding. Small time and now where is he?
Didn't his son also die a few years later? What was that about? Or am I thinking of a different Clinton scandal?
The 98% who cannot get away from their televisions, anyway. This has been a major victory for propaganda.
Want an enemy? Start with the Media.
That's who dictates "truth" to their beery little heads.
Then, remove any ability for critical thinking courtesy of the Teachers' Unions, who, coincidentally vote...How?
There is absolutely no reason to believe that this wasn't a hit and the body was placed at Ft Marcy Park, little to no blood and no skull or brain tissue on the ground?? with a penetrating skull injury... Hillary cannot be allowed to regain power, if she does she will turn the U.S. into another Mexico ...
Your assessment is 100% correct.
I remembered some of the details wrong (Foster lieing uphill not down) but overall it was tragedy all around.
It's perfectly ok to believe Vince Foster killed himself at Fort Macy Park. All you have to do is remember he killed himself because he was tied into all the illegal and immoral acts of the clintons.
Works for me.
Whether Vince killed himself or was silenced by thugs doesn't matter that much anymore.
What matters is that people and agencies INTENTIONALLY over looked, covered up, or ignored the evidence of a tragedy at least, a murder at most. Just hiding the truth is a crime. The reasons for hiding the truth is probably the greater crime.
The fact that the trails lead to the Clintons is only part of what is maddening. The fact that, for them to get away with their shinanigans, many other people of supposed integrity allow them to do it through their silence, is probably more maddening. It only gets worse, when you realize that many "so called" conservatives are part of that wall of silence which hides the truth and protects the Clintons.
But I'll sleep fine, because I know, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that God will not let any of them escape their punishment.
The last thing I heard, he was a limosioune driver in D.C. But that was years ago.
"The fact that the Republicans had control of the WH and Congress and has apparently decided that all of Clintons scandals are not worth looking into anymore, shows a real bad tolerance level for the growth of evil."
No, what it shows is that both parties are corrupt and in cahoots.
A good book on this subject:
The STRANGE DEATH OF VINCENT FOSTER
by Christopher Ruddy
another must read:
Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent Inside the Clinton White House
by Gary Aldrich
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- Valid in black.
- 50 denier thickness.
- Made from 91% nylon and 9% elastane.
The Fine Print
- May buy multiples.
- Voucher valid until 20th Jul 2014.
- Postage costs an additional £1.99 per voucher.
- Please allow up to 10 working days for delivery after redeeming.
- Subject to availability.
Full Details
Saving you from exposing hairy, pale and less than desirable pins, these bad boys are a wardrobe essential. So don't be tight…
Today we're offering you a 3-pack of 50 denier premium black tights for only £6.99, saving you 53% off Pamela Mann's price of £14.78 (correct as of 5.6.14).
Made from 91% nylon and 9% elastane, these premium black tights are perfect for pairing with everything from skirts and dresses to shorts. The 50 denier style are slightly sheer, making them perfect for less than balmy days. With a handy 3-pack you've got one for wearing, one for the wash and one ready for tomorrow!
How to Redeem
- When you've bought we'll send you your unique wowcher code.
- Head to the Wowcher redemption page using the link we send you.
- Enter your wowcher code and delivery details.
Once purchased, you can redeem this wowcher towards another wowcher or claim a Wowcher Wallet Credit. Click here for more info.
Luxury Spa Day with 2 Treatments & Prosecco @ 4* Peckforton Castle £59 instead of £91.50 for a spa day for one including two 25-minute treatments and a glass of Prosecco, or £115 for two people at Peckforton Castle - save up to 36%
Ancestry Population DNA Test £79 instead of £199 for an ancestry population match test from DNA Diagnostics Centre - save 60%
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This barrel kit is compatible with all Spyder markers except Spyder MR2 and Spyder MR3.
Improve your marker distant and accuracy with this tactical barrel kit. The tactical barrel kit is the ultimate realistic upgrade for your marker. It comes with a 16" M4 style barrel with a removable muzzle brake. The muzzle can be removed to install silencer, grenade launcher and other awesome upgrades. The barrel kit also comes with a M4
style front sight and tactical handguard. This is a complete kit that is ready to action. Take your game to the next level with this tactical barrel kit.
Barrel Kit Disassemble Instructions
*Out of Stock*
Review (0)


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Seychelles Rowdy Wedge Pump
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Item # 270826
Get pumped about the Seychelles Rowdy! A comfortable heel height and cute button accent make these adorable wedges perfect for anything in your wardrobe.
- Leather upper
- Pleated round toe with covered button accent
- 2½" covered wedge heel
- Synthetic sole
- Imported
- View more Women's Seychelles Shoes
By: Thursday12
Location: MA
November 13, 2013
Cute Wedges
"I bought the teal and was shocked by the bright color. The dyed leather did not work for me. The shoes were also too long. My heels kept slipping out. The shoes are cute, but I will need to exchange them."
By: ariad
November 06, 2013
By: Jenjen143
Location: Irvine
October 27, 2013
"cute and comfy! love the button details and pop of color in teal!"
By: jjsmiles
Location: Orange, California
October 20, 2013
Perfect pop of color!
"I immediately loved the pump when I saw it online! I couldn't decide between the teal and the yellow and in the end I decided on the yellow. The height is perfect for work and very comfortable to stand in. You may want to size down as this pump runs a little longer. I had to exchange it since my heels started slipping out when I walked even with socks. Otherwise, totally content with my purchase. Buy it, you won't regret it!"
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Strong finish for Canadian men and women at world sitting volleyball championships
EDMOND, Oklahoma – The Canadian men's team loss its final two matches in five sets while the women concluded with a close battle against Britain this weekend at the world championships in sitting volleyball for athletes with a disability.
It was the first world championship appearances for both Canadian squads.
In the men's consolation playoff round the Canadians lost the 15th place match to Hungary 19-25, 23-25, 26-24, 25-19, 15-13. Earlier they fell to Morocco 25-15, 14-25, 25-20, 19-25, 25-12. Canada finishes the tournament with two wins and five losses for 16th place out of 22 countries.
The Canadian men's team members were Chad Drummond, Austin Hinchey and Doug Learoyd, all of Edmonton, Jose Rebelo of St-Hubert, Que., Kevin Strybosch of London, Ont., Eric Dechaine of St. Lina, Alta., Wilfredo Morewilson of Toronto, Mikael Bartholdy of Calgary and Greg Stewart of Kamloops, B.C.
In women's competition, Canada put up a strong fight against Britain in its last playoff match falling 18-25, 26-24, 26-24, 25-12 to finish in 12th place.
The women's team members were: Chantal Beauchesne of St-Isidore, Ont., Allison Lang of Edmonton and Leaha Hickman of Lashburn, Alta. The other team members are Jolan Brunner of Vermilion, Alta., Danielle Ellis and Jordan Funnel, both of White Rock, B.C., Karen McCoy of Lincoln, N.B., Amber Skyrpan of Wandering River, Alta., and Tanja Hodzic of Vancouver and Krista McDonald of Kinuso, Alta.
Sunday's championship finals pit Iran versus Bosnia-Herzegovina for the men and China versus the U.S., for the women.


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Courtney and Lorraine Cox, of Orangeville, announce the marriage of their daughter Shalae, to Brent Lamoreaux, son of Ben and Linda Lamoreaux, of Cedar City. Brent and Shalae will be married in the Mt. Timpanogos Temple on Aug. 8.
Brent and Shalae will make their home in Orem where they will each continue with their college education.


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Granby Public Library OPEN Sundays
1 to 4pm
Granby Public Library continues its tradition of Sunday hours during the months of January, February and March.
Sunday afternoons in the winter have always been special to library users of all ages. Staff and Friends are busy planning Sunday events.
We hope to see you each Sunday from 1 to 4pm


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Top Definition
when porking a female in the canine position, imminent to ejaculation the male extracts his member and continues to beat with his hand until climax, at which point the man cream is intercepted by the male hand. once in place the semen is slung spiderman-esque towards the female rear whilst calling "go web" using correct handular movement one can re-create being spiderman in the comfort of ones own boudoir.
"spidey sense tingling... ...GO WEB..WOOPOW"
"hey Beeatch, take my spidey sling"
"hey Beeatch, take my spidey sling"
by The green goblin April 14, 2006
The Urban Dictionary Mug
One side has the word, one side has the definition. Microwave and dishwasher safe. Lotsa space for your liquids.Buy the mug
The Urban Dictionary T-Shirt
Smooth, soft, slim fit American Apparel shirt. Custom printed. 100% fine jersey cotton, except for heather grey (90% cotton).Buy the t-shirt


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For a quick yet elegant meal, serve with bagel sticks and flavored cream cheese spreads. Stick frilly toothpicks in the bagel sticks to give them the look of a club sandwich!
Four cups of mixed salad greens from your supermarket salad bar section--or a bag of prewashed lettuce--saves you the trouble of washing and tearing lettuce.


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Open daily 10am–5pm
Admission to the permanent collection is free. Admission charges apply to special exhibitions. Children 16 years and under are free.
More information
+61 2 6240 6502
+61 2 6240 6504
+61 2 6240 6537
or freecall 1800 020 068
Free parking
Parkes Place
Canberra ACT 2601
The National Gallery of Australia is an Australian Government Agency.
Quick events search
Events and exhibitions
For event bookings email email@example.com or call +61 2 6240 6504.
View the full calendar of events online at nga.gov.au/Calendar.
Ptolemaic Period 332–30 BCE 'Mummy mask' plastered, painted and gilded linen, Department of Egyptian Antiquities, Musée du Louvre, Paris Photograph © Christian Décamps, Musée du Louvre, Paris
Egyptian antiquities
from the Louvre:
journey to the Afterlife
17 November 2006 – 25 February 2007
Follow the soul on its journey from earthly life to eternity in Egyptian antiquities from the Louvre: journey to the Afterlife. On show for the first time in Australia, the collection of more than two hundred objects from the Musée du Louvre, Paris reveals the mysteries of Egyptian art and culture in all its beauty.
Speakers from the Louvre
Friday 17 November 6pm
Henri Loyrette, Director; Sabine De La Rochefoucauld, Development Office Individual Donors, Development Department; Marc Étienne, Curator, Department of Egyptian Antiquities. $20, $15 members/concession (includes exhibition entry). James O Fairfax Theatre. Bookings essential
Sunday 26 November 2pm
2pm Bronwyn Campbell, coordinating curator of the exhibition.
2.20pm Moya Smith, Head, Anthropology, Western Australian Museum
2.40pm Colin Hope, Senior Lecturer, Archaeology, Monash University
James O Fairfax Theatre
Celebrity lecture
Thursday 7 December 6pm
Cultural commentator Phillip Adams discusses his interest in ancient Egypt and the antiquities he has collected from that civilisation. $8; $5 members/concessions. James O Fairfax Theatre Bookings essential
The Bronze Weaver
The National Gallery of Australia has recently secured a 6th–century bronze figure of a weaver. The image of a mother suckling her young child while seated at her loom is perhaps the most important bronze object to be found in the Indonesian archipelago in the 20th century.
Sunday 19 November 2pm
Robyn Maxwell, Senior Curator, Asian Art, discusses the enigmatic evidence of early Indonesian sculptural traditions.
Asian Art Galleries
Marea Gazzard 'Kamares VII' 1972
glazed stoneware Crafts Board of the Australia Council Collection 1980
National Gallery of Australia
The crafted object
until 10 December 2006
Saturday 25 November 2pm
2pm Robert Bell, Senior Curator, Decorative Arts and Design.
2.20pm Darani Lewers, artist and former Chair of the Crafts Board of the Australian Council
2.40pm Johannes Kuhnen, artist and Head of the Gold and Silversmithing Workshop, ANU School of Art
Project Gallery
Ptolemaic Period 332–30 BCE ' Sarcophagus of Tanethep' diorite. Department of Egyptian Antiquities, Musée du Louvre, Paris Photograph © Georges Poncet, Musée du Louvre, Paris


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The goal of Graduate Programs is to educate men and women to advance the quality of human life through scholarship, teaching and service.
Graduate programs focus on the disciplines of education, counseling, and theology. Scholarship, teaching and service are integral to students' educational experience which extends beyond the classroom into the community.
Admissions Requirements
A degree from a regionally-accredited college or university which reflects an overall minimum undergraduate grade-point average of 2.5 is required. The minimum acceptance score from the GRE is 800 (the combined score from the verbal and quantitative sections) or 280 on the revised GRE effective 08/2011. In lieu of the GRE, the MAT is offered with a passing score of 380. All scores must be within five years of the date of application. A one-page written essay on why you have chosen your proposed program of graduate study is also required and will serve as a writing sample.
For International Applicants:
In addition to the above requirements, International applicants must submit:
Application Deadlines
- Fall deadline (all documentation submitted) - July 1
- Spring deadline (all documentation submitted) - November 1
- Summer deadline (all documentation submitted) - April 1
Financial Information
Xavier University is a private institution and charges tuition accordingly. In-service personnel in educational institutions receive a 25% tuition waiver during the academic year that is subject to change without notice. Graduate Programs does not administer any financial assistance -- all inquiries about financial aid should be directed to the Office of Financial Aid.
For more information
All inquiries, requests for application forms, and completed forms should be addressed to:
Graduate Programs
Xavier University of Louisiana
1 Drexel Drive
Box 60
New Orleans, LA 70125
or call 1-504-520-7487.


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Geox Fighter 2 Boys Toddler & Youth Light-up Sneaker
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Item # 258131
Add that flashy style to any outfit with these fun and fashionable Fighter 2 sneakers from Geox.
- Faux leather upper
- velcro closures for an adjustable and secure fit
- Padded tongue and collar
- Soft fabric lining and cushioned footbed
- Ultralight, waterproof and breathable rubber sole
- Lighted technology
- Imported
- Online Exclusive!
Tell us what you think!
Everyone has an opinion. Here's your chance to share yours! Be the first to write a review of this product and help your fellow shoppers pick the best of the best.


text:
Reviewed By Paul B (Waukesha, WI) Reviewed for a 2015 Ford F-150 —8/23/2016 7:24 PM
It's a bit noisy at first until the muffler settles in but now she hums. It's not too loud on the highway either and there is no drone effect like the Flowmaster's. 70-75 MPH seems to be the sweet spot!!! Great American made product!!


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CASTLE DALE - Lloyal Moffitt Hunter, our dear wife, mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, sister, friend, passed away Sept. 18, 2009.
She was born April 6, 1937 in Orangeville to Leslie and Elouise Moffitt. She married Dan H. Hunter April 14, 1956 in Ely Nev., later sealed in the Salt Lake Temple. They were blessed with four children. Lloyal was talented at the piano and had a lovely voice.
She is survived by her husband Dan, Castle Dale;daughters Leslie Warburton, Magna, Bobbi (Vance) Brown, Ferron; son Michael (Suzanne) Hunter, Gunnison; nine grandchildren and six great-grandchildren.
Preceeded in death by son Douglas Dan Hunter.
Funeral services will be held Sept. 28, 2009 at the Castle Dale LDS Third Ward, (165 West 800 North). A viewing will be held Sunday, Sept. 27, 2009 at Fausett Mortuary in Castle Dale from 6-7 p.m. and Monday from 11:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. prior to the services at the church. Interment will be in the Orangeville Cemetery. Services are in the care of Fausett Mortuary. Family and friends may sing the guest book and share memories of Lloyal at www.fausettmortuary.com.


text: Quizzes Games, Fear and hate quizzes no more, we present to you quizzes that will entertain and excite even the most veteran gamers. With the new, comedic, "Cheating Exam," you can discover new and fun ways of challenging yourself and passing the virtual test. See how you might fare in a high stakes game show when you play "Win a Million." Here, quizzes can entertain, inform, and light-heartedly aggravate! Remember, we update weekly, and there are always more quizzes being made and imagined!


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Training Camp Notebook: Day 11
by Joe Buscaglia
posted Aug 7 2012 7:53PM
In the final practice before the Buffalo Bills head to Ralph Wilson Stadium for their first preseason game, head coach Chan Gailey wasn't amused by the effort level given by his team.
"I thought after practice that mentally we were sorta in to it," he said. "It's the first time in quite a while that we have not been in pads and I thought guys thought it was a glorified walk-thru."
Despite the "glorified walk-thru" crack from their head coach, there were still a couple of standouts, a few sub-par performances and even a training camp scuffle to complete the afternoon.
Here are a few notes from practice:
- Practice MVP: S Da'Norris Searcy. It's the second straight day where a safety has taken the honors for top player, and it was for yet another two interception day. Searcy's second of the interceptions was the most impressive, closing on the ball intended for Ruvell Martin and ripping it out of his hands for the turnover. Searcy, along with the rest of the second and third-team players, took the majority of Tuesday's repetitions because that's what will happen in large part during Thursday's preseason game.
- Practice LVP: QB/WR Brad Smith. Not that I was expecting all that much out of the dual-position player while he was taking reps at quarterback, but his throws were all over the place. The Bills inserted him at the end of practice for a 60-second drill, to which Smith missed a pair of passes and scrambled the next two plays without getting out of bounds. The jump ball effort in the end zone on the final play was easily thwarted by the defense, thusly ending the practice. We won't be seeing much of Smith on Thursday unless a two-minute drill arises, that's as much as Gailey said on Tuesday after practice. That means outside of the first two drives, get ready for the Tyler Thigpen and Vince Young show.
- It was nothing like what happened at SUNY Cortland with the ESPN Jets, but the Bills had a minor scuffle, dust-up, or whatever you'd like to label it. The "combatants?" Rookie CB Stephon Gilmore and WR Derek Hagan. Hagan went to block Gilmore on a run play and the two engaged with both their arms fully extended while grabbing a handful of jersey each. The play concluded, but Gilmore gave an extra shove. Then, Hagan gave an extra shove. After that, Gilmore and Hagan aimed to take each other down to the grass. It concluded with Hagan hovering over Gilmore, who was flat on his back, and the receiver giving him a couple of extra shoves. If you really want to score it at home, I'd give the edge to Hagan. Ah, training camp.
- I thought a pair of the receivers lower on the depth chart had a solid practice. The first of which is Buffalo-native Naaman Roosevelt, who catches everything in his area. I can only recall him dropping one pass in training camp so far. He has the consistency factor down, there just isn't anything extraordinary about him that may warrant the Bills wanting to keep him around over a Derek Hagan or a Marcus Easley. Plus, he's not that well-off in terms of special teams contributions. The other player that performed well was Ruvell Martin. He dropped one, but made a couple of tough grabs over the middle of the field throughout the day. He was a favorite target of Tyler Thigpen on Tuesday.
- I found it really interesting to watch assistant defensive line coach William Inge throughout the practice. He and Mario Williams were working together pretty extensively when the defensive end was not busy taking team reps. Inge was just going over inside rip moves, swim moves and everything that entails. He really focused on pressure points of the arm and where to gain an advantage by forcing an offensive lineman to do what you want involuntarily if his arms are out too far. Mark Anderson joined in on the work near the tail end of practice.
- There may be a lot of false start penalties called on the Bills on Thursday with the way that training camp has gone so far. Rookie Zebrie Sanders has been the most frequent offender, but Mark Asper, Michael Jasper and plenty of others have been constantly jumping before the snap of the ball. I don't think the replacement referees can screw that call up.
- It may have been during the least-spirited practice since the start of training camp, but Erik Pears taking part in team drills on Tuesday is a nice step forward. Chris Hairston shows some poise and potential, but Pears is the most polished product they have at right tackle at the present moment. Getting him back will be a huge boost to the offensive line.
Injury Update:
- Johnny White, Justin Rogers and Mike Caussin did not practice on Tuesday. White was nowhere to be found during the session.
- Pears, David Nelson and Torell Troup all practiced but on a limited basis. Once again, Nelson did not participate in the 7-on-7's or during team drills. It's unlikely that any of the three play in the team's first preseason game. Nick Barnett also sat out of team drills, instead riding the stationary bike with a view of the line of scrimmage to diagnose plays.
The Bills have a walk-thru that is closed to both the public and media on Wednesday, and then they head back to Buffalo. They'll take on the Washington Redskins at home Thursday night at 7 pm.
You can hear the live play-by-play coverage of the game on WGR Sports Radio 550, the official radio home of the Buffalo Bills.
See you on the sidelines!
Twitter: @JoeB_WGR
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text: Win $25K in this Scholarship of the Week! BUICK Achievers Scholarship Program Deadline is Feb. 28th Jan 7, 2013 by Suada Kolovic The Buick Achievers Scholarship Program, funded by the GM Foundation, is designed to help students who are leaders in both the classroom and their communities, but who may not have the financial means to attend college. The scholarship program will award 100 renewable scholarships for up to $25,000 per year and 1,000 one-time scholarships for $2,000. The Buick Achievers Scholarship Program is open to high school seniors or college undergraduate students who plan to major in a specified course of study that focuses on Engineering/Technology or select Design and Business-related programs at an accredited four-year college or university in the United States or Puerto Rico. Scholarships will be awarded based on participation and leadership in community and school activities, interest in the automotive industry, academic achievement, and financial need. Special consideration will be given to those who are a first-generation college student, female, minority, military veteran or a dependent of military personnel. Buick is accepting entries through February 28th. If you are interested in learning more about this or other scholarship opportunities, conduct a free scholarship search today!And remember, there's no need to rely on expensive student loan options to pay for your college education. For more information on finding free scholarship money for college, conduct a Scholarships.com free college scholarship search today, then apply and win! It's that easy!


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Jeff Yeager is the author of four books including How to Retire the Cheapskate Way and The Cheapskate Next Door. You can follow him on Facebook and Twitter.
Also of Interest
- Save up to $10,000 a year
- New American Diet: a sensible way to lose weight
- Make money by cleaning out your closet
- 7 medical tests and treatments you may not need
Visit the AARP home page for great deals and savings tips


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New Balance 101 Sport Slip-On
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Item # 266756
Calling all ladies with an active lifestyle! The women's New Balance WL101 slip-on mary jane has the athletic shoe feel with a stylish design. Wear these to your yoga class and slip them off with ease before you hit the mat.
- Synthetic upper
- Slip-on design
- Stretchy elastic band at midfoot for a secure fit
- Mesh lining
- Cushioned footbed
- Injection molded EVA foam midsole provides lightweight cushioning
- Textured rubber outsole for traction
- More colors available
- Imported
- View More New Balance
By: Meob
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
May 06, 2013
Exactly what I wanted.
"The shoes are exactly what I was looking for: comfy, easy to throw on, and a little pop of color."
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Mark Messier on Working for the Oilers
Jonathan Willis
August 18 2009 08:42AM
We talked a few days ago about a report by the New York Post's Larry Brooks, a report which stated that Messier was interviewed this summer for the coaching position that eventually went to Pat Quinn.
According to Messier, that report wasn't entirely accurate. Here in part is what Messier told CanWest News Service about finding a job in Edmonton:
" [Brooks' report]'s not necessarily true. I talked to Kevin about working in the Oilers organization in some regard . . . not just this summer but for the last few years. We never really talked about the coaching, per se. We explored every possibility… "I had an ongoing dialogue with Kevin about coming back to Edmonton, but wasn't able to make any sort of commitment to them."
Messier goes on to explain that his family lives in New York, and that his son is going to start school there in the fall.
There isn't anything overly surprising about the Messier quote; it often seemed during Kevin Lowe's tenure as general manager that he was trying to recreate the glory-days Oilers, except in the front office instead of on the ice. Even ignoring Craig MacTavish, former Oilers employed by Lowe included Craig Simpson, Charlie Huddy, Kelly Buchberger, Dave Semenko, Frank Musil, Kent Nilsson and Mark Lamb. While I think that many – even most – of the men on that list are or were good at their jobs, it's difficult not to be a little suspicious of the sheer volume of Lowe's former teammates.
It would have been a strange break from Lowe's common practice had he not been in touch with Messier.
It's also worth noting that it wasn't Lowe who couldn't make a commitment to Messier – on the contrary, it was Messier who was unable to commit to working for Lowe. As for what "every possibility" entails, last summer there were rumours (reported by both Robin Brownlee and Joanne Ireland) that Craig Simpson was a strong candidate for Scott Howson's vacant Assistant G.M. position. Lowe emphatically denied those, saying "that's craziness, total craziness. One minute he's going to be president, the next minute he's going to be assistant general manager. I don't know who started that, but there's nothing to it whatsoever." I can't find the link, but as I recall Brownlee stood by his report despite the denial.
I wonder if Messier was ever considered for that post.
And as much as I'd like to close with that line, I also want to be clear about something after the way the comments section reacted to the Messier as coach article: there's nothing wrong with considering where a guy might fit into the organizational hierarchy. Problems only arise if he's hired for something that he's not yet qualified to do.
August 19 2009, 10:48AM
@ roadrunner: You seem to hold the HHOF in pretty high regard. IMO, it has the least integrity out of any of the "major" HOFs. In no other HOF is it more about who you know rather than your accomplishments in your sport. The HHOF holds no prestige or honor, because you are just as likely to get in there because you played on a line with a superstar as you are from being a superstar. You could get a ham sandwich nominated if you could show that Foster Hewitt took a bite out it.
That said, I love Jim Matheson and we are lucky to have him in Edmonton. Not because he's in the HHOF, but because he's a great writer, with years of experience producing a great body of work.
August 20 2009, 02:18AM
It drives a fan insane to see this team consider the likes of Messier or Simpson for management jobs when there have been far more qualified people there. Rick Dudley would have been great to have here, and he will no doubt help Atlanta out a great deal. Jay Feaster is also unemployed. Not that he would leave Detroit necessarily, but maybe even ask for permission to talk to Jim Nil.
August 20 2009, 02:21AM
@ Bettman4PM:
make that 'more qualified people out there'


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Hot Harry is cold
September 17, 2013 21:15:54 Posted at September 17, 2013 21:15:54 Photos:
Getty Images
Getty Images
Prince Harry's going to the South Pole in November to raise awareness for Walking With The Wounded. Today he participated in a training exercise in preparation for the journey. They were all in a cold chamber and had to take down a tent. This is terrifying to me. It's a controlled situation and even that looks grueling, can you imagine the real?
Here's another observation: Harry has that cookie in his mouth like he's used to a cigarette or even a joint, I'm just saying.


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Ryka Downbeat High-Top Dance Sneaker - Womens
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Item # 267496
Say hello to versatility, style and function when you lace-up the Ryka Downbeat Dance sneaker and let your body move to the beat. These kicks are the perfect choice for dance and studio activities.
- Synthetic and air mesh high-top upper
- High-density foam upper
- Adjustable hook-and-loop midfoot strap for security
- Infused Heel Guidance technology to provide extra lateral support which secures the heel and guides footstrike alignment
- Diamond-shaped rubber outsole for just the right amount of grip
- Imported
By: Zdancer
Location: Arizona
August 21, 2013
GREAT shoes for Zumba!
"I bought these shoes online to use for Zumba classes. I take 3-4 classes per week and I replace my shoes every 4 months. They are INCREDIBLE!! Super comfortable for dancing, glide easily on a dance/gym floor, and provide a lot of lateral and ankle support. I have knee problems as well and the support these shoes give is awesome. When ordering, I ordered a 1/2 size up because I wear orthotic inserts. They fit perfectly! They are VERY lightweight as well, so they don't feel "clunky" on your feet when dancing. They only drawback I see, is that my feet get a little warmer in these than my other pairs of Rykas that I wear. I think because of the height of the shoe and the way they are made, they hold the heat in a little more and don't breathe as well as other shoes. But that's the only thing. Otherwise these shoes are GREAT!!"
Click anywhere to close this.


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The U.S. Department of Labor's Mine Safety and Health Administration announced the availability of additional coal mine inspector positions for the duty station in Price. Interested citizens should register and apply online through MSHA's Web site prior to the March 30 deadline.
"MSHA is seeking motivated professionals dedicated to helping our agency protect the health and safety of working miners," said Richard E. Stickler, assistant secretary of labor for mine safety and health. "We're looking for qualified people who will continue to make safety the number one priority for the mining industry."
Under the agency's ongoing Mine Inspector Career Trainee Program, MSHA will conduct on-site applicant screenings to test and interview registered applicants interested in all locations, including Price, where positions are available. Employment screenings will be held in Poteau, Okla., on April 20 and 21; Craig, Colo., on April 24 and 25; and Helper, Utah, on April 27 and 28. Space will be limited.
To register, go to www.msha.gov and click on "Jobs at MSHA." Select vacancy announcement number MSHA-07-036-D9 (applicable for all screenings listed above) and follow the instructions for submitting an application. Reservations will be made on a first-come, first-served basis, which will be determined the dates applications are received and processed through the Web site.
Applicants should indicate the locations for which they are interested in applying and whether or not they are claiming veteran's preference. Applications that do not include phone numbers, addresses, and/or information on citizenship and basic qualification requirements cannot be considered. Each applicant should bring photo identification and a complete resume to the applicant screening.
All applicants will be notified of test results. Selected candidates will participate in a formal two-year training program. They should be able to perform arduous duties and can expect a starting annual salary of about $43,000. In addition to a 40-hour workweek with generous annual, sick and holiday leave, selected candidates are offered health,life and long-term care insurance; a stable retirement program, including a tax-deferred savings plan; travel reimbursement; and flexible spending accounts for medical and dental expenses.
Inspector positions also are available in Craig, Delta and Denver, Colo.; Aztec, N.M.; McAlester, Okla.; and Gillette, Wyo.
MSHA is the federal agency charged with inspection of mining operations nationwide for adherence to regulations designed to protect the safety and health of working miners.
The Emery County Republicans organizing convention will be held April 12 at 7 p.m. in the old courthouse room 207. Delegate registration will be from 6:15-6:55 p.m. Note the date correction.


text:
Forecasting James Reimer and Jonathan Bernier
Cam Charron
July 10 2013 12:25PM
If you're a sports analyst, one of the main problems is confronting the issue of survivorship bias.
In sports, results drive most of the business, even though the results from the previous year don't always impact the results in the next year. Very few teams across sports are willing to be patient and stick to a process that will lead them into making good bets. "Buy low" is generally accepted in the stock market but not in sports. The Toronto Maple Leafs this offseason have bought high on Tyler Bozak and David Clarkson, rather than bought low on Clarke MacArthur, Mikhail Grabovski and Nikolai Kulemin.
Say you have two players with a "true talent" of 20 goals per season. The first player got some bad puck luck and scored just 15, while the second got some puck puck, a few extra chances, and scored 25. More often than not, when choosing between the two players, a team will go for the 25-goal scorer, even though the 15-goal scorer would be cheaper and he's just as likely to produce at the same level in the future.
Despite scoring just 14 goals to David Clarkson's 45 over the last two seasons, I firmly believe that Nikolai Kulemin is just as good as the slightly older, much more expensive unrestricted free agent the Maple Leafs picked up. Unfortunately, there is no way to test the theory unless you have thousands of multiple universes, and half of them play Kulemin in Clarkson's spot in the lineup and the other half play Clarkson in that spot. We'd have to average out the totals of the universe to see who was right or wrong. For better or for worse, we have just the one universe, and its randomness, though teams make worse decisions because of it, makes sports more exciting.
I can sit here and say that I'd take Kulemin over Clarkson, but I'm not under a lot of pressure to bring notable players to Toronto and sell tickets and jerseys and convince Vinny from Woodbridge that the team is doing its best to perform on the ice. Working on the margins doesn't necessarily work for a team like Toronto where every move is scrutinized in hindsight. I prefer to work with foresight.
Which brings us to Jonathan Bernier.
Bernier is an interesting case because he blends "buying low" with "buying high". The Leafs spent quite a bit on Bernier: a pick, a depth winger, a backup goaltender and $500k in salary cap space, plus the contract they gave him, which works out to a $2.9-million cap hit.
That's the price you pay for a former first round pick when you need to sell to your fanbase that you're looking to fix any lingering goaltender issues.
But then there's the "buying low" aspect. Bernier never made it as a starter in the NHL, at least not yet. Among active goalies, he is 61st in minutes played, behind noted gems such as Al Montoya, Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers, and -- most notably -- James Reimer. His career save percentage of .912 and even strength save percentage of .916 are not particularly impressive numbers. The average backup goaltender would have made 3.4 fewer saves over Bernier's career than Bernier did, and when you consider it's been seven years since he was the 11th overall pick, his NHL resume is none too impressive.
Comparatively, James Reimer has been the Leafs' starter for three separate half seasons. Making his debut in 2011, Reimer dragged the Leafs out of the depths of the Eastern Conference standings with a .921 save percentage and a 20-10-5 record. On New Year's Eve 2010, the Leafs were 13-19-4 and in 13th place. The next day, Reimer took over as the de-facto starter, and at the end of the season, Toronto was 37-34-11 and in 10th spot. Concussion and injuries took him over in the 2011-2012 season, but he responded with a .924 save percentage in 2013 and led the Maple Leafs to their first playoff appearance since Ed Belfour was the Leafs goalie. Belfour has not only retired, but he's also got himself a Hall of Fame plaque.
Compare the two career records:
|EV Shots Faced
|Average backup EV SV%
|Saves over Average Backup
|James Reimer
|Jonathan Bernier
With more shots faced, and performing better relative to the average backup (by combining the even strength save rates of goaltenders that were not in the Top 30 in shots faced in any given year), Reimer appears to be the leader.
But should we be entirely convinced he'll have the better career? Think about regression to the mean:
In statistics, regression toward (or to) the mean is the phenomenon that if a variable is extreme on its first measurement, it will tend to be closer to the average on its second measurement—and, paradoxically, if it is extreme on its second measurement, it will tend to have been closer to the average on its first. To avoid making wrong inferences, regression toward the mean must be considered when designing scientific experiments and interpreting data.
Reimer possibly represents an extreme case. Since he's performed well at even strength since coming to the NHL, I'd have him as my opening day starter.
That said, can we use comparable players to see whether Bernier or Reimer will perform better over the next three seasons? Well, we can try.
The first step was downloading all of the NHL.com goaltender data (I looked at even strength only, since I'm a believer in total save percentages being influenced by a strong penalty kill) and sorting it per season, determining the save percentage of an average backup, and filling in birthdates for players as necessary. While the NHL season officially listed a 24-year-old as a player that turned 24 during the hockey season, for simplicity I used the junior hockey style, marking down a 24-year-old as a player that turned 24 during 2012.
With help of the delightful Rob Pettapiece in helping me figure out Microsoft Excel's Pivot Tables, I was able to sort career-to-date statistics of goaltenders at age 24, and how they did beyond that. Survivorship bias is, unfortunately, huge when evaluating goaltenders. If Reimer were the first round pick in 2006 and Bernier were the third round pick, I would have no doubt that Bernier would not even be on the Maple Leafs' radar.
It's difficult to find comparable players, however, particularly in Reimer's case. Limiting my goaltenders that were born between 1974 and 1985 so I would have full data prior to 1998 when the NHL began tabulating EV save statistics, and so that I could cover three seasons for goalies that were 24 three years ago, there are not a lot of goalies who came close to Reimer's 28.0 Saves above Average Backup (SAR). He would have been 10th on our list.
Let's define the comparables to include all players within .005 of save percentage at even strength up to age 24, and see how they combine to perform at ages 25, 26 and 27:
|Avg. EV Shots Faced
|Combined EV SV%
|Average backup EV SV%
|EV SV%+ (Era Adjusted)
|Saves over Average Backup
|Reimer Comparables
|Bernier Comparables
There are 24 goalies age 24 and before belonging in Reimer's sample, and 27 in Bernier's which were culled to 18 and 22, respectively. Of those goalies that continued, they performed at a similar level. The Reimer group's overall save percentage should be considered slightly higher since they tended to play in eras when even strength save percentages were slightly lower, but overall, the difference is pretty minimal, especially when you consider that certain goalies who (perhaps unluckily) played themselves out of a job in the Bernier group may have had more success in their future years if given the chance.
This is not a perfect way of doing it at all, but there are no real "good" ways of forecasting goaltenders. They get into the league, they try to make saves, and if they don't make enough of them they don't last and never get the chance to regress back to the mean.
So perhaps looking at Jonathan Bernier's save percentage and criticizing the move isn't the right way to go. Bernier is probably a pretty good goalie. Where the move deserves criticism is that the Leafs gave up a goalie with a similar track record in EV SV% (.9162 to .9171) to bring over a goalie that was a year younger and has made just 439 more even strength saves at the NHL level. Bernier also costs $2,787,500.00 more when you figure in the salary cap retention of the deal, plus a depth winger and a pick.
In other words, if you're going to buy low on a goaltender with a spotty career record under the belief that he'll regress towards the mean, you may as well actually buy low on him.
Bernier will be Toskala all over again or the leafs. Reimer is getting traded like Rask and the only regression to mean we will see is leaf goaltending back toward its 880 SV%.
Let's fire Nonis before it is too late!
This situation reminds me of the Kyle Turris trade. (although goalies are wildly more difficult to predict) Similar assets given up by Ottawa in Runblad and a 2nd for a player who was a high pick but never really produced in strong Phoenix system. Like the Turris deal, this is about a players ceiling. Instead of looking at past performance, Nonis is taking a gamble on Bernier's ceiling. Personally, I like the move. I think the risk vs reward is worth the assets lost to L.A.
Good read... but how is paying Grabo 5.5 per considered an example of "buying low" ???
In my opinion Bernier is the more talented goaltender with a higher potential than Reimer.
Bernier is much more fluid in his movements, has a much better glove hand, controls rebounds better, and handles the puck better than Reimer.
Several years from now Bernier will be a top 3 NHL goaltender, Reimer will be what he his now, an average NHL tender.
I was a bit shocked by the cash the Leafs gave to Bernier. Not so much because of the actual salary cap $$, because my interest doesn't lie in cap management, but more so for what it says to Bernier, and Reimer, and everyone else.
Bernier is the Leafs #1 goalie.
That's some pressure.
Bernier's cost was to high, however I think Bernier battling with Reims for #1 is going to be very beneficial. People are looking too much at the dollar he signed for Reimer's contract is up next season. It gives leverage so Reimer cant ask for more then his worth. I dont see paying a goalie 7 mil/yr without a 35 win season is just plain messed up.
In my opinion Bernier is the more talented goaltender with a higher potential than Reimer.
Bernier is much more fluid in his movements, has a much better glove hand, controls rebounds better, and handles the puck better than Reimer.
Several years from now Bernier will be a top 3 NHL goaltender, Reimer will be what he his now, an average NHL tender.
Reimer's stats say he's anything but 'average'.
The only thing that will matter with these 2 goalies is who performs under Carlyle and who dont. The person who dont perform will find themselves backup.
With Carlyle your not going find a losing goalie starting all the games, any more then a 30 pt player on top 2 lines. If either of goalies wants that starter job their gonna earn it, Grabovski is a prime example of how harsh Carlyle can be.
The problem is that you probably don't watch much hockey.
How can you possibly say that Bernier "looks" better than Reimer considering he has half the number of NHL starts and shots faced, plus considering he plays irregularly in the late timezone.
Basically, this comment is full of BS, and Toronto Sun-like, and whoever wrote it ought to be smarter.
Just for the record before I get started - I do watch hockey... a lot.
I don't necessarily agree with mrj that Bernier is the more talented goalie - I think they're both talented and have great up side. But he isn't completely off base.
Bernier does have better puck handling skills and rebound control. I don't even think that's a matter of opinion. His glove hand is arguably better as well. But puck handling skills; specifically, are a major upgrade over Reimer. A goalie who can stop the puck behind the net and deliver a great first pass is a huge asset. Helps to eliminate those 4-5 minute shifts in your own end (a la Orrsy).
You know that quote from Mr. Miyagi in Karate Kid "best way to block a punch is not to be there in the first place". It's kind of like that.
The other thing I'll take exception to is the fact Reimer has played twice the number of games and faced twice the number of shots. Well... of course he has! He was playing behind a guy who's been widely considered the best goalie on the planet over the last three years... top 3 at the very least. If Reimer and Bernier traded places I'm sure those numbers would be reversed. To me... this is inconsequential.
Reimer obviously has his strengths over Bernier as well...
To say one is better than the other at this point in their careers is hugely presumptuous. I, for one, like having both. Having two young goalies with upside is always better than having one. Improves your chances of hitting a home run.
.... and just to see if Cam can take it as well as he can dish it out: when do you ever watch the hockey game - aren't you too busy counting scoring chances?
In my opinion Bernier is the more talented goaltender with a higher potential than Reimer.
Bernier is much more fluid in his movements, has a much better glove hand, controls rebounds better, and handles the puck better than Reimer.
Several years from now Bernier will be a top 3 NHL goaltender, Reimer will be what he his now, an average NHL tender.
There have been plenty of players who never lived up to potential that dont mean much. Reimer is proven will Bernier push him maybe. I like to think these 2 would be good for each other, as the other side of this is disastrous.


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