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FN Weekend Open Thread - Projected Standings
Kent Wilson
July 21 2012 11:09AM
Although there are a few wrinkles to iron out still - the back-up goalie and the overly crowded blueline - what you see is probably what you're going to get once the season starts when it comes to the Flames roster. We've built the depth chart previously, but now it's time to project where you think this team will land in standings this season (assuming there is a season at all, of course).
Subtractions, Additions and the Competition
The Flames weren't overly active this summer, but they did make a move or two. Gone are Hannan, Jokinen, Moss and Kostopolous. In their stead, Calgary signed Wideman, Hudler and Cervenka. Jones, Backlund, Comeau and Sarich were able to stick around, while Sven Baertchi is expected to make the club out of camp.
It looks like there's a bit more offense in the line-up this time around, but Calgary's greatest weakness - possession - wasn't really addressed (unless Cervenka turns out to be Pavel Datsyuk). Every single Flame not named "Backlund" who played in the top-6 last year got his head beat in terms of driving the play and scoring chance differentials. In fact, the club lost one of it's top-3 players by this measure in David Moss, so there's a good chance the team will continue to be outshot and outchanced by good teams more often than not. Particularly with key guys Iginla, Cammalleri and Tanguay one year older and one more year past their peak.
Also, keep in mind Kipper is not likely to repeat his performance from last year. His ES SV% has hovered around league average (.920) over the the last 5 seasons with some wild swings above and below. Last year was his best performance in a long time (.928) which usually means he's in line for some regression. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but even a 0.008 drop in SV% equates to about a 14 goal difference over a full season, assuming he plays about 70 games again.
It's not impossible for a 36-year old goalie to replicate an excellent performance, of course...it's just not the best bet in the world.
Finally, the stats of the NW division and Wetsern Conference as a whole is something to keep in mind.
Teams I expect to improve include:
- Anaheim Ducks (Hiller, Getzlaf and Perry rebound)
- Minnesota Wild (big additions in Parise, Suter and Granlund)
- Edmonton Oilers (kids are growing up, added Shultz to the back-end)
- Colorado Avalanche (Landeskog, Duchene, Parenteau, Downie, O'Reilly and Jones in their top-6. Added Zanon to a decent blueline as well. They have 16M in cap space too)
- Los Angeles Kings (as long as pucks go in for them at even a middling rate, they will be near the top of the conference)
Teams I expect to take a step back:
- Detroit Red Wings (lost Hudler, Stuart and Lidstrom. I doubt Jimmy Howard manages a .920 SV% again as well)
- Nashville Predators (Lost Suter, Weber (maybe), Radulov and their success last year was percentages/special teams based anyways)
- Phoenix Coyotes (lost Whitney, Mike Smith won't repeat his performance from last year)
Right now, there seems to be more risers than sinkers in the WC. Bad news for the Flames is three of their NW division rivals are trending upwards (COL, EDM, MIN) at a time when Calgary is doing it's very best just to tread water.It's going to be a very crowded middle-class in the WC again this year, so a lot of things are going to have go the Flames way if they are to make the playoffs for the first time in four years.
Projected Standings
I think there will be some bounce backs on Calgary this year (Backlund, Comeau, Cammalleri) and some guys will regress a bit (Kipper, Glencross, Hudler). The Flames should score a bit more, but will probably continue to give up more shots and chances than they generate. Wild cards include the performance of kids and rookies (Baertschi, Cervenka, Brodie) as well as the degree to which older guys like Iginla, Kiprusoff, Sarich and Tanguay fall off the pace.
I have placed the Flames in the "7-10" bucket for each of the last two seasons, but looking at them this year and considering the WC overall, I have to bump them down a notch to 8-11 or even 9-12. It's possible the Flames rides the percentages for awhile (think Minnesota or Nashville last year) because every year some club rolls sevens for an extended period. Absent a nice bout of luck like that, however, I think the best we can hope for is running in place.
That's just how things seem to me from where I sit. Your mileage may vary.
Of course, this is an open thread, so please add your own projections and justifications in the comments.
As a die hard flames fan, I can understand the low expectations due to 3 years with no playoffs , but I am going to be positive and say the flames are going to surprise some us this year, since we are making predictions and predictions are just educated guesses, I am predicting the flames will make the playoffs. I predict backlund having a breakout year, Cammalleri returning to form, To generalize, I predict the cervneka signing will make us all very happy, I predict kipprusoff will be his usual self. I predict 40 goals from jarome, and my daring prediction, I predict bouwmeester will thrive under Hartley. Many may not see the changes this off season as moves in the right direction but I think this team is much better then the past 3 years indicate. The mediocrity and playoff draught started with Brent sutter and his style of play and I predict the it ends with Brent Sutter. Just predictions.
(This comment isn't from the previous Chris. One of us may eventually have to switch handles. :) )
I like the approach Austin & Rex took: evaluating the entire conference. Here's my take:
Top tier teams: St. Louis, Chicago, Los Angeles.
Playoff teams: Minnesota, Vancouver.
Borderline teams: Detroit, Calgary, Edmonton, Dallas, Nashville (with Suter), Anaheim.
Miss out: Nashville (without Suter), Columbus, Colorado, San Jose, Phoenix.
The Flames will be competing with 4-5 other teams for 3 playoff spots. They can get in if they don't resemble the Montreal Canadiens of last year and get bashed all over the rink by the other teams' power forwards & big defencemen.
I think if the Flames really do well under Hartley and accept his philosophy that you could see the Flames at 8. Not super likely but there's a chance.
By the way I am the previous guy in the comments "Austin" but the username was already taken.
The Flames will make the playoffs this year.
So hard to predict but I think most agree that Minn, Edm & Colorado will all be much better teams this year. So following that logic, you have to think we play the most games from the teams that have improved & of course Vanc is always solid & tough games. The question is, has Calgary improved? On paper, many think we have. In reality, we have more unknowns going into this year than last year. The unknowns of 2 key players about to start their NHL careers, could be good, could be bad, probably somewhere in the middle. We have the unknown of new coaches. Flip a coin guys, new coaches could equate to a quick start and a false sense of success or easily a struggle while the team adjusts to a new way on the ice. The latter could spell disaster. We also have some very big distractions next year. The biggest elephant in the room is Iginla. If he is not extended, this will become a gong show with the sport panels & media, especially if they struggle out of the gate & sit 12th or 13th by mid November. The other distraction is our backup & how many games Kipper is playing. If Kipper slips just slightly & our backup does the usual minimal wins, the odds of us struggling out of the gate increase dramatically. I just hope that Baerschte is in the top 3 candidates for rookie of the year, is Cerevenka eligible for the Calder? If so, for the Flames to have 2 players being discussed as candidates for the Calder could be the tonic for Iginla to resign, players to buy in quicker to Hartley and the Flames being a definite contender for the playoffs. So if we see some success out of the gate, I see the Flames in a 6-10 scenario. If this team is slow out of the gate again, OMG, we will see drama & rumours and changes like we have never seen before. Either way, its going to be interesting & its going to be fun. Let training camp begin & lets get this friggin CBA done. Bettman must be popping Zantac by the bucket with some of these rediculous contracts being thrown around.
July 22 2012, 09:53PM
New coaching staff + better special teams + better shootout % = 5th place for Flames. You heard it here, first...
July 21 2012, 11:21AM
In keeping with recent history, Flames finish out of the playoffs as the 9th place team (thus drafting 12th-14th). Was my prediction/fear last year, I see no reason for this year to be any different. Sucks.
I think Feaster is doing a good (not great) job, under the circumstances (my assumption being: that he has been told he can't trade Iggy/full rebuild). Those that warn of a long 5 years if we trade Iggy seem blind to the long 4th year we are about to endure.
Enjoy your honeymoon Kent.
July 21 2012, 11:57AM
I wouldn't be surprised by anything between 6th and 12th. The team may well have improved (at the very least, Wideman is an upgrade over Hannan). Although Moss was one of the better possession forwards on the team, you can't possess the puck while you're on the IR, so his loss may not be as noticeable as it otherwise would be.
Whatever happens, I'm hoping for either playoffs or a bottoming out. I know it's sacreligious to hope for losses, but if the Flames are going to screw up hard, this is the season/draft in which to do it.
Still a mediocre team like in the past 5 seasons. The difference this year is that they're taking a risk with an overall smaller, more "skilled" team and a new offensive minded coach.
I think this could turn out like 06-07, heavy on offense with no defense except I can't see them making the playoffs this time around. I say somewhere between 12th and 9th.
I think the team has improved itself, even if Iginla, Sarich, and Kipper are all still getting older. Wideman is better than Hannan, Hudler can replace Moss not in terms of driving possession but hopefully in points. Wild cars for me are Cervenka, Backlund, Baertschi, and Brodie. Backlund SHOULD have a rebound hopefully.
Like I said, I think our team got a little bit better, but other teams in our division did more things than we did.
Edmonton: Still a very young team with the likes of Eberle Hall RNH Yakupov and now Schults.... Look out!
Colorado: They won't blow anybody out of the water but they'll be fighting for that 8-10 range.
Minnesota: They'll be definately in the top 8, probably in the 4-6 range with the additions of Parise and Suter. Not to mention Granlund turning pro. They have some other good young talent that could help them as well.
Vancouver: Haven't really changed much so I don't see any reason for them to slide from where they are.
The teams that I do see falling are Phoenix, Nashville, and Detroit. I don't see Detroit falling out of the top 8, but if Nashville loses Weber, it will be hard for them to stay a top 5 team. Phoenix will likely lose Doan now so they'll be fighting for that 7-10 range. Dallas got a bit better and Anaheim was pretty unlucky. So all in all the 6-12 will probably be extremely crowded.....
Have a good time Kent. I'll do my best to keep the comments coming (yeah, I'll try to be more verbose while your away.)
As for the standings, not sure exactly but I suspect that Anaheim will actually fall back this year (the likely loss of Ryan and perhaps a trade of either Getzlaf or Perry - both?!), Dallas might move forward, I suspect that Calgary will find ways to win the games they lost last year, but will lose some of the games they won as well, in the end - break even and more of the same. Perhaps a small step back one place in the standings from 2011-2012.
As for the Oilers, I expect them to finish no higher than 9th in the West and more likely around the 12th spot (Curtis Lazar in June, perhaps?).
I'm not spotting anything to Minnesota until I see them for at least 25 games. Mercenary talent, no matter how altruistic their intentions when signing, doesn't have the best track record for immediate performance.
Can't underestimate Phoenix.
Detroit is something of a puzzle right now. But I suspect that the franchise is going to begin to wane for a year or two. This might be when Holland and Nill really earn their reputation.
Columbus could be a guessing game again. Knowing their luck, in a year when there is a tremendous couple of talents in MacKinnon and Jones available, they'll screw it up and draft 6th overall (Max Domi?).
As for the rest of the team, I really couldn't hazard a guess this early. Depends on so many variables. New CBA, length of season delay, roster adjustments to meet the criteria for new CBA, last minute trades, underperforming core players, off-season Sami Salo-esque injuries (Scandinavian snake-bites anyone?), etc.
Calgary finishes a hair above Edmonton, Columbus screws up their own chance to draft high, a surprise collapse gives some other Western team the last place title. 1st overall pick might end up going out East for a change, though.
enjoy the honeymoon kent.
agh, another dismal year with a second tier club awaits, i say somewheres around the tenth spot. just close enough to tease but bad eough to feel like a taunt. carlo colio a whatever and gilroy would be a huge improvement over sarich(that signing is like kidney removal while drunk in budapest)and the ukrainian trainwreck antwoin badchuck.
I know I'm an Oilers fan so my view may be seen as particularly biased - I could see CAL really falling off this year and being in the lottery. Not that I'd necessarily be counting on that, but possible.
Re that last post (#10): of course I meant 'Weber' where I said 'Suter'. Apologies.
2nd Chris:
You have EDM and CAL clear of SJ. Out of curiousity, why?
SJ was 40-50 goal diff ahead of both teams last year, how do they close that gap? SJ is pretty much the same team, plus they added Stuart.
July 21 2012, 06:11PM
I expect the Flames to remain where they were last season for the most part. I still think the changes made by Jay Feaster will ultimately not be enough to push this team into the playoffs. Iggy and Co. are another year older. Kipper is unlikely to play aswell as he did last year. GlenX's sky high shooting percentage may trail back a bit.
There will be some positives this season. I think Cammi will have a bouce back season, along with Backlund. SVEN will have a good rookie campaign. Wideman will anchor the PP, and Cervenka will hopefully be a competent 2nd line centreman. However, I just think that these positives won't be enough to push the Flames into 8th with how other teams have improved in the West.
July 21 2012, 07:35PM
Same as it ever was for the Flames. 9-12.
July 21 2012, 11:03PM
You know, Hartley is a completely different coach, and I think he was the biggest acquisition the Flames made this off-season. Sure, we have a similar team than last year, but I think if Hartley was our coach last year, we would have made the playoffs. He coaches the offensive side of things unlike Sutter
All of our main guys strive on an offence first mentality. Cammy, Tangs and Iggy will have way more freedom to do what they do best. Score goals. A solid second line of Sven, Cervenka, and Hudler will also score a ton of goals. A third line of Glenny, Backlund, and Stepniak is a top notch third line ( if Backs plays like he should).
Our defence is very strong, even if we trade Bouwmeester.Gio and Wideman are solid two way d-men. Butler is due for a impressive season. Smith and Brodie are on the right track to take it to another level. Sarich can still pummel anyone. We have one of the best goalies on the league. What else should I say?
All I ask is a little bit patiance for our new coach. He will turn this "good on paper" squad into a "good on ice" squad. Cheers
July 22 2012, 12:44AM
I'll Play
My guess
If Nashville keeps Weber, I think they might be higher then 7th. If Anaheim trades Ryan then they become the worst team in the league.
As far as Minnesota is concerned, I have serious reservations about giving them 8th, it will be interesting to see how Suter plays without Weber.
Regardless Minnesota's defense is still weak and they don't score; I'm not sure how much of a difference two players will be?
@Kent Wilson
Can any team really be said to have "lost" a Kostitsyn? Especially Andrei.
I understood Poile motivations last year, and I have to applaud the amount of effort he took, but when you gamble like that, putting your chips into players like Radulov and A. Kostitsyn (Sergei seems like a more responsible person) is like adding risk without any compensating reward.
Weber is good, but if they keep him all that is likely to happen this year (before they can trade him) is that they miss the playoffs, draft significantly later than they might had they let him go, and then have to trade him in a radically altered CBA landscape wherein his contract may become more of an albatross to the acquiring team, thus reducing their potential return.
I know it is like asking someone to choose between a gunshot and a knife wound, but I think that is something Poile needs to take into consideration. Seeing how difficult it is to trade either Nash or Luongo this summer based largely on their contracts, as well as the difficulty Howson had moving Carter for ostensibly the same reason (asking price aside), trying to move Weber next year might be next to impossible.
Or at least adjacent to Brian Burke expressing humility, which is next to impossible.
@Walter Sobchak
I agree on Anaheim. Selanne is...well, Selanne. And Fowler is a player I would have some keen interest in for the Oilers. But looking down their lineup, if they lose Ryan, this team just is hanging on to the remnants of their cup roster and it is doing them no good at all.
Rather than trading Ryan, not that they can back away from that now, they ought to have spent the time trying to find compensation packages for trading Getzlaf and Perry. Trading those two and perhaps MacDonald, could have netted them a fair bit in the way of picks and prospects.
That 2013 2nd round pick in the Cogliano trade could become a very valuable little asset for Tambellini this year. If the Oilers were to move Sutton and Jones for picks at the trade deadline they might have enough pieces to move up a few spots in the first round, from perhaps 10th to 5th.
On MIN - if they can stay a little healthier this year, that will help them too. I assume Granlund will be come into the league as a more or less functional top-6 player since he's been playing as a pro for a couple of years already. They also added Tom Gilbert last season, and I think he's a legit top-4 guy at least.
So I think they should in the middle class form 7-10.
As for NSH - they had terrible underlying numbers last year. High-end goaltending, the second highest SH% in the league and a great PP put them where they were. It's probable at least one of those things (if not all three) regresses. And they are likely to lose their two best skaters on top of all that.
They also are likely to lose Kostitsyn to free agency this summer.
As a result, I doubt NSH makes the playoffs. Heck, they could be a lottery team.
That's part of why I think NSH might consider passing on the OS for Weber, depending how they look at their finances and future ticket sales, etc.
If they think there's a not bad chance they miss the playoffs anyways, positioning themselves for the MacKinnon lottery may not be the end of the world when contrasted with the money they'd have to pay Weber
With the parity in the league these days making predictions on standings is mugs game at best. While the Flames and most teams don't like to use injuries as a crutch they are a major factor in where teams end up in the standings. Late last February the Herald had a table showing each teams man games lost due to injuries.
At that time I went through each team and their standing. What it showed was the 7 teams with the most man games lost were all outside a playoff spot. The only team in the top 8 of man games lost in the playoffs was Pittsburg. Of the 12 teams with the least number of man games lost 9 were in a playoff spot. The rest in the middle were a mixed bag which would make sense. One of the take ways from this was that unless you have a pretty elite team it is pretty hard to make the playoffs when you have a lot of injuries.
The playoff race will probably be just as tight as it has been in the last few years.
I think just to make the playoffs, all you need to do is to avoid a long loosing streak.
If the team can win 8/14 - 6/10 games they will be in the mid 90's in points.
With the teams who should drop in the standings being playoff teams last year and the teams who should jump up in the standings being lottery teams, mid 90's should get a spot anywhere from 5-9.
To show how mediocre they can be and still be in the race for the playoffs, break it down by month
October - 8 games - 4-3-1 November - 12 games - 6-4-2 December - 15 games - 7-6-2 January - 11 games - 4-3-4 February - 15 games - 7-5-3 March - 15 games - 7-6-2 April - 6 games - 2-2-2
37-29-16 - 90 points
This would be the same record as the Flames had last year. Not the same breakdown per month but as you can see they just have to be consistent.
The Flames went 3-9 in shootouts last year and 2-7 in overtime.
If I remember right, since the shootout was introduced, other than the top 4 teams, everyone else was around .500
So go from 3-9 to 6-6, up to 93 points. Improve in the overtime to 4-5 and now you have 95 points.
There is no reason the Flames can't be in this 90-95 point range for the 4th straight year.
Will they make the playoffs? I think that has more to do with how the teams around them do.
Sort of off-topic question, but does anybody know when Irving's arbitration hearing is? TSN doesn't have him listed at all.
I'm wondering what the hold up is. If they do end up going to arbitration, they're going to make Irving cry - pretty sure it'll all hinge on the 9-0 shellacking and repeatedly losing the starter job in Abby. Might as well send him out the door for Bernier in that case.
Is he going to arbitration?
Maybe a lockout is what this team needs. The Flames always start the season slow and have to play catch up. They don't wake up until January.
A lockout is bad for guys like Backlund and Baertschi, they need to play a lot of games to keep developing. It's good for Kipper, who, if there is a lockout definitely won't play 70 games.
I'm more worried about the center position, this team is probably the weakest team down the middle in the NHL.
July 22 2012, 02:29PM
I agree on Anaheim. Selanne is...well, Selanne. And Fowler is a player I would have some keen interest in for the Oilers. But looking down their lineup, if they lose Ryan, this team just is hanging on to the remnants of their cup roster and it is doing them no good at all.
Rather than trading Ryan, not that they can back away from that now, they ought to have spent the time trying to find compensation packages for trading Getzlaf and Perry. Trading those two and perhaps MacDonald, could have netted them a fair bit in the way of picks and prospects.
That 2013 2nd round pick in the Cogliano trade could become a very valuable little asset for Tambellini this year. If the Oilers were to move Sutton and Jones for picks at the trade deadline they might have enough pieces to move up a few spots in the first round, from perhaps 10th to 5th.
Re: Anaheim moving Getzlaf and Perry
Pure crazy talk. Getzlaf is the single most important asset you can have, a number 1 center with size and skill. Assets like him get traded...almost never. And Perry is only a year removed from being MVP, but you think ANa should move them out for prospects and picks?
Crazy talk.
Call me crazy then. But if they can't resign him then they have to trade him.
There is something to be said for recognizing one's situation and capitalizing on it, though. This year might offer Anaheim an opportunity to draft one or two prospects that could replace Getzlaf. The alternative at this point is that they have the center but precious little else with which to surround him.
I know it sounds defeatist, but a good manager can find opportunity in disadvantage. Right now the Ducks are financially strapped, they have taken a slap in the face with Schultz' "defection" and their prospect pool could use an injection of talent.
The Ducks, in my opinion, need to ask whether Getzlaf is more valuable to the organization or on the market.
The Stars hung on to Richards with the argument that they needed him in order to push for a playoff spot. It was a moot point as they finished below the cutoff, but even had they made it, there was virtually no chance of them winning anything beyond one round. Financial matters meant they had to gamble, but putting that aside, had they traded him to New York, Kreider could have been part of the return. Or McDonagh. Who knows.
Many Flames fans seem to feel, at least many of the ones who post here, that the Flames have been hanging on too long to certain players, to the detriment of the long-term future.
I won't go into that debate, but Anaheim could find itself in the same boat. If they can secure the finances to retain Getzlaf and Perry, while still developing and acquiring enough other talent to take them into consistent playoff contention, then by all means, sign them. If they cannot, and retaining those players means an inability to procure the necessary talent elsewhere, then they are simply wasting everybody's time.
@Kevin R
The Calder, if I recall correctly, is limited to players under 25 years of age in their first professional season in the NHL.
Sergei Makarov winning the Calder as a 31 year-old kind of raised some issues.
Funny that the wording now includes professional time specifically in the NHL. I guess if someone had a previous year in a league like, say, the WHA it wouldn't count now.
I believe it's 26 not 25. If I'm right, Cervenka is eligible just by the skin of his teeth, being a December birthdate in 1985.
You're right. I was thinking 25 because of the Logan Couture debate last year (2010-2011).
Why not Cervenka, the Flames had Calder luck with a European import last time. ;-)
July 22 2012, 10:13PM
Call me crazy then. But if they can't resign him then they have to trade him.
There is something to be said for recognizing one's situation and capitalizing on it, though. This year might offer Anaheim an opportunity to draft one or two prospects that could replace Getzlaf. The alternative at this point is that they have the center but precious little else with which to surround him.
I know it sounds defeatist, but a good manager can find opportunity in disadvantage. Right now the Ducks are financially strapped, they have taken a slap in the face with Schultz' "defection" and their prospect pool could use an injection of talent.
The Ducks, in my opinion, need to ask whether Getzlaf is more valuable to the organization or on the market.
The Stars hung on to Richards with the argument that they needed him in order to push for a playoff spot. It was a moot point as they finished below the cutoff, but even had they made it, there was virtually no chance of them winning anything beyond one round. Financial matters meant they had to gamble, but putting that aside, had they traded him to New York, Kreider could have been part of the return. Or McDonagh. Who knows.
Many Flames fans seem to feel, at least many of the ones who post here, that the Flames have been hanging on too long to certain players, to the detriment of the long-term future.
I won't go into that debate, but Anaheim could find itself in the same boat. If they can secure the finances to retain Getzlaf and Perry, while still developing and acquiring enough other talent to take them into consistent playoff contention, then by all means, sign them. If they cannot, and retaining those players means an inability to procure the necessary talent elsewhere, then they are simply wasting everybody's time.
Well it sounds defeatist because it is defeatist!
Aside from trading Getzlaf for another teams #1 pivot, you will lose a piece that is simply not possible to trade for (see: Leafs/Flames). If you don't get a Kopitar or Malkin back you have to hope and pray that whatever prospects/picks you receive are homeruns just to equal the player you are giving up.
By keeping Getzlaf you can retool around him. Add an Etem here, a Fowler there, re-sign Perry and you can compete for a decade.
Let him go for hope and promise and you have...nothing.
Yes there are people who worry the Flames wasted Iggy's prime without getting him a ring. That is not an argument to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar.
All of the centers that you mentioned, indeed pretty much every 1st and 2nd line center in the league that I can think of right now came from the draft.
From where I sit, I think the Ducks have some deeper problems to solve than the addition of an Etem or a Fowler can solve. One is just leaving junior and may not yet make the NHL, while the other is entering his third season and still has a long way to go.
As for competing for a decade? That would make Getzlaf 37. I suppose they could put Selanne in a juicer and drink his mojo, but that sounds like a bit of a stretch, no offense.
Hope and promise don't always account for nothing. Sine Qua Non.
I guess I've never understood the argument that draft picks are a waste of time or a fool's gamble because inevitably the argument seems to come around to the team in question trying to trade or sign as a free agent some elite center who was, at some point, drafted.
Every year there are talented young players entering the league and it's feeder systems.
I'm not saying that Getzlaf can be traded in for a younger, certified replacement center. In fact, I have argued against that very line of thinking in some of the Iginla trade talk here on FN. I don't subscribe to the idea that players can be traded for an equivalent performance in a younger model. And on that note, I honestly think that Iginla should sign an extension and finish his career in Calgary. Cup or no Cup, it won't make a difference for the place that I believe he occupies in the hearts of most Flames fans.
What I'm saying is that there comes a time to stop beating one's head against the wall and take a more strategic approach: be willing to lose the battle if it means winning the war. Or something like that.
Rex, I have to disagree with you with Anaheim. 2010-2011 they were a playoff team and came close to knocking off Nashville. They were a major disappointment last year as many had projected them to be a top 8 team & they crapped the bed last year, I know had Getlaff & Perry in my hockeys pools last:(. Thing is, they are young & hitting their peaks, just because they have a bad year I find fans of teams that are currently rebuilding are quick to get on the blow up & rebuild. Misery likes company?:) Perry & Getzlaff were homeruns in the draft, you just dont bail on them like that. In fact, Anaheim should be watching what happened to Nashville & should be trying to aggressively extend them both. So, like, if Hall & Eberle & Nuge have a bad year 4 years from now, do you you trade them for picks & prospects?
Good points and I absolutely understand your point there. A small setback shouldn't necessitate a massive roster change.
From my perspective (and I realize it seems like, as an Oiler fan, I'm riding some sort of rebuilding high), I see a team that has steadily declined since winning the Stanley Cup in 2007. They have a half-decent prospect group, but I have to wonder if this might be an opportunity for them to "sell-high". The Ducks have had some success at the draft in the past, indicating a decent scouting corps.
I don't think they will actually try to trade these players away, but if neither signs, I suspect that Anaheim will be loathe to relive the experiences of Nashville from this season past.
SJ is pretty much the same team that struggled mightily to make the playoffs last year. They look to be on the decline, and merely adding Stuart won't be enough to stop their slide.
Of course, last year could have been a bad year for everybody, and they'll bounce back. But I don't think so.
1) St. Louis 2) Los Angeles 3) Vancouver 4) Chicago 5) Minnesota 6) Calgary (More offense same goaltending) 7) Detroit (Lidstrom/ Stuart gone) 8) Colorado 9) San Jose (Same team as last year, all getting older) 10) Nashville ( Losing Suter and Weber means they went from a good defense to a weak defense, very little offense to back it up) 11) Edmonton (still not enough Defense to be competitive) 12) Dallas (Jagr is done, Roy is already going through surgery, Riberio/ Ott huge losses) 13) Phoenix ( Losing Whitney and most likely Doan means overachievers will have hard time competing. Lost heart and Soul this off season) 14) Anaheim 15) Columbus
Call me crazy but the Flames significantly improved their offense this off season and I think with our regular goaltending will easily make the playoffs. Adding Wideman, Hudler, Cervenka, Bartschi, and a bounce back year from Cammalleri.
Considering Detroit, Nashville, Phoenix, & Dallas all regressed think a lot would have to go wrong for the Flames to miss the playoffs.
@ Rex: Now that makes sense. If they get a hint of them not wanting to extend then they need to make a hockey trade, not a rebuild trade. Ive been preaching that with Iggy as well. But in the Flames case, picks & prospects would be fine:)


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SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Two people died in separate avalanches in Utah during an active weekend for slides.
The first happened Saturday in American Fork Canyon, about 35 miles south of Salt Lake City. Officials said Brigham Young University Student Ashleigh Cox, 21, was snowshoeing when she was caught in an avalanche that carried her 50 feet into a creek.
Witnesses couldn't dig her out and she was stuck under the snow for about 40 minutes, according to Utah County Sheriff's Sgt. Spencer Cannon. Rescuers were able to revive Cox, from Colorado Springs, Colo., but she was taken off life support Sunday afternoon.
The second fatal slide happened about 5 p.m. Sunday roughly 90 miles away in Sanpete County. Clint Conover, 36, was riding with three other experienced snowmobilers when the avalanche happened in the back country near Huntington Reservoir, according to Sanpete County sheriff's officials.
The group was prepared with avalanche beacons and dug Conover out from under 6 to 8 feet of snow, but he later died.
Sheriff's officials said Conover, from Ferron, is survived by his wife and five children.
The Utah Avalanche Center warned of high avalanche danger over the weekend in the mountains of northern and central Utah. It reported 14 slides on Saturday alone.
Copyright 2014 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

subset: commoncrawl


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Books, How to Prevent and Treat Diabetes with Natural Medicine, Michael Murray, N.D., 369 Page Paperback Book (Discontinued Item)
Shipping Weight:?1.01 lbsSwitch to Metric units
- Product Code: BKS-48038
- UPC Code: 9781594480386
- Package Quantity:
1 x 5.9 x 8.9 in, 0.85 lbsSwitch to Metric units
A Natural Arsenal of Diabetes-Fighting Tools for prevention and Treatment Designed to Boost the Effectiveness of Conventional Therapies.
- Assess your risk of developing diabetes, with a unique screening questionnaire.
- Learn proven practice for preventing diabetes even if you have a family history.
- Reduce or eliminate you dependency on medications.
- Promote weight loss, normalize blood sugar levels, and eliminate complications
- Reverse diabetes, even if you currently take insulin.
Two of America's Foremost Experts Unite to Defeat the Fastest- Growing health problem in the United States
More of us are at risk for diabetes than ever before. But no matter what your risk factors, diabetes is not inevitable. And if you already have it-it may be reversible.
In How to Prevent and Treat Diabetes with Natural Medicine, DRS. Michael Murray and Michael Lyon- two leading natural medicine and diabetes experts- offer a complete, individualized nutrition program and proven exercise and lifestyle changes for preventing, treating, and reversing diabetes. This unique book will help you to:
- Prevent both type I and type II diabetes
- Treat and even reverse diabetes
- Integrate natural and conventional therapies to reduce you need for medication
The most thorough and authoritative diabetes resource available, it offers:
- A meal plan, featuring shopping lists and recipes
- A list of daily vitamins and supplements
- A guide to natural medicines- when, how, and in what combination to take them
Who needs this book? Anyone who is overweight; has a family history of diabetes or a personal or family history of heart disease; has prediabetes, low blood sugar, or borderline high blood sugar; and lives a sedentary lifestyle. This is an essential tool for helping you live a healthy and active life.
Excellent information
Verified Purchase
Excellent information
I've enjoyed and personally profited by reading Dr. Murray's book since I was recently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. It was a God-send!
A Must Read!
Posted by Reviewer2418838 on Dec 27, 2011
Excellent book...a must read for anyone diagnosed with Diabetes...the first step on the journey to curing yourself! Many many thanks to the two authors.
Interesting basics
Posted by Reviewer3061764 on Oct 26, 2011
Essential reading for all diabetics, both type 1 and 2.
Worth a read
Posted by Reviewer2104814 on Jun 23, 2011
Only received the book yesterday but looks like a good read.
Wonderful book
Posted by Reviewer1820561 on Jan 11, 2011
Very informative and helpful book for anyone who wants to improve their health and prevent or treat diabetes
I thought it was a break through...
Posted by Reviewer2107594 on Apr 30, 2010
it was nothing new to me, a lot of unnecessary text with statistics and data I don't need. make the book simple, concise and short, it will cost and weigh a lot less and it will be faster to read. I knew all the "natural" treatments involved in this book...for new learners this might be useful, bought it in hope of finding something new for my mom's disease, but over all I was very disappointed.


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(May 01) Today we're celebrating. . . May Day
May Day! May Day! May Day!
Ok. OK. So its not really a day for distress signals but, honestly, with the direction this country is headed maybe its something we should keep in mind!
Anyway. . .Â
May Day itself is really a day of multiple celebrations. While its a celebration of Springtime and traditionally celebrated with a Maypole, throughout most of the world May 01st is known as International Workers Day.
Similar to the US Labor Day, May Day has become an international celebration of the social and economic achievements of the working class and labor movement and is marked by massive street rallies led by workers, their trade unions, anarchists and various socialist and communist parties.*
* source: wikipedia: May Day
photo credit: Pete Ashton via Flickr


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The energy that comes from the sun is abundant, clean and inexhaustible at the scale of humanity. Constantly renewed following the seasons, solar energy is the most ubiquitous source of energy and the most accessible to all mankind !
The use of renewable energy enables us to reduce and stabilize concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere at a level that would prevent dangerous anthropogenic disturbance to our climate system. The choice of clean energy in your home or business helps protect our environment and reduce energy cost.


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Student Handbook, Catalogs, & Forms : Still-Well Student Wellness Program : Student Affairs Blogs : Meet the Staff
University Mission
A.T. Still University of Health Sciences serves as a learning-centered university dedicated to preparing highly competent professionals through innovative academic programs with a commitment to continue its osteopathic heritage and focus on whole person healthcare, scholarship, community health, interprofessional education, diversity, and underserved populations.
Our Services and Promise
Abraham Maslow, a renowned humanistic psychologist, believed that people strive to reach the highest levels of their capabilities. He believed that the respectful treatment of people promotes personal growth and when physiological, safety, love and affection, esteem and self-actualization needs are met, people have the greatest opportunity to reach higher levels of learning and service. This is known as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory.
In many respects, the principles and values of the Department of Student Affairs are based upon Maslow's theory. We believe that in order for students to achieve at their highest level on integrity and compassion and and be life-long learners, the services provided by the various Student Affairs offices must meet the needs of students in three areas: mind, body, and spirit.
The Admissions program must recruit, select and orientate highly-qualified applicants. They seek creative, compassionate, and motivated applicants that want to serve humanity. If an applicant is to choose ATSU, they must feel safe and be able to secure housing in peaceful and friendly neighborhoods. A student's physiological needs of food, clothing, and protection are assured only if provided with financial assistance and the skills to manage debt.
Students can escape loneliness and alienation while receiving empathy, affection, and a sense of belonging by participating in student organizations, leadership development, and volunteer experiences encouraged and sponsored by the Department of Student Affairs.
ATSU students can experience personal growth and acquire life-long skills through involvement in the Still-Well wellness program or by being a member of individual and team sports and exercise programs at the Thompson Campus Center (ATSU-Kirksville). Emotional and academic support is readily available through Counseling Services and the Learning Resources. The Registrar's Office verifies a life-long record of course work, grades, and the granting of a diploma to recognize significant achievement.
Our enthusiastic Student Affairs professionals are dedicated to providing students with result-oriented and personal service. Each office is a high volume, high contact department determined to support the basic needs of students so that they can be competent and compassionate caregivers.
Lori Haxton, MA
Vice President for Student Affairs


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"Thanks so much she was super exhausted to come home. Hahaha"
"Chelsea had a great stay!"
"Thanks guys, Harvey enjoyed the walks and pats!"
"Frankie had a great stay with Richard. Received lots of pics and was very assured that Frankie was..."
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"Very happy doggy! Thank you Emily."
"Chiao is amazing! All round lovely person to have looking after your pets, great communication & we ..."
"Yuri! Thank you very much, for looking after Tora! we were amazed how well she was looked after. I..."
"Sally was excellent, we were kept up dated regularly, came home to a clean house and happy pets. "
"Great again, thanks Wenencia. "
"Gena was great as always, pups were very relaxed and happy when we got home from two nights away. "
"Wednesday had a wonderful time with Fiona and she sent through regular updates and photos of their..."
"Thanks so much Erin! Gerrard looked very happy when we came home. Appreciate your flexibility while ..."
"We did not go through with the booking but Mickayla was prompt and friendly in her communication "
"Thanks so much, our puppies had a great stay with Julie! It's was lovely to get updates and some..."
"Sarah and James were wonderful hosts. Our meet and greet went really well. They welcomed us, showed ..."
"Sophie was great! Highly recommend!"


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By Nicole GilesProvo
My Name is Nicole Giles and I am trying to get some exposure for my petition for an alteration of the Right to Work Law/ At Will Employment Rule in Utah.
My Petition: Most Americans believe that being a decent and hardworking employee will provide a certain degree of job security, but that is a common misconception for those who live in a Right to Work state with an At Will Employment rule. As of now, you can be terminated without just cause despite your tenure or work ethic. Being employed in a Right to Work state shouldn't mean, as a worker, you have no rights. We are proposing an alteration of the Right To Work Law/At Will Employment rule in Utah, so that employees cannot be terminated without sufficient cause after five consecutive years of employment with a company. Please sign our petition and promote fair rights for good employees in Utah. To sign this petition, please visit: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/right-to-work-termination-without-just-cause.


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OilersNation's 2009-10 Western Conference Predictions
October 02 2009 12:00PM
Oh sure, the puck hasn't even touched the ice yet for the Little Team That Can (And Will)™. But that's never stopped the writers here at OilersNation from putting on their prognostication (I had to look it up) hats to determine how things are going to shake out this season. Find out what's going to happen in the Western Conference this season, according to OilersNation.
Robin Brownlee's Predictions
- San Jose
- Detroit
- Vancouver
- Chicago
- Calgary
- Columbus
- Anaheim
- St. Louis
The Sharks are loaded up front and are the class of the West... the Red Wings will slip some but will hold off the Blackhawks in the Central . . . loaded with grit and skill up front and set in goal with Roberto Luongo, the Canucks could overtake Detroit for second overall... the Flames have a great blue line but are suspect up front . . . watch the Blue Jackets climb the ranks with youngsters Derick Brassard and Nikita Filatov providing Rick Nash some offensive support... love him or hate him, the Ducks will miss Chris Pronger and Anaheim could easily slip two spots, opening the door for Dallas or Edmonton.
9. Dallas 10. Edmonton 11. Nashville 12. Los Angeles 13. Phoenix 14. Minnesota 15. Colorado
I'm leery of expecting more than 50 games from Nikolai Khabibulin, who didn't inspire great confidence in pre-season, and that makes goaltending a question with unproven Jeff Deslauriers as the back-up... unless Gilbert Brule is the answer, GM Steve Tambellini still has a gaping hole in the line-up until he goes out and gets a bonafide face-off man and penalty killer... the Oilers will bleed points in division games against the Flames and Canucks... special teams should be better, but the penalty killing was so inept last season it'll need to improve 10 places just to be middle of the pack and will have to do it without Fernando Pisani to start the season... Dustin Penner looked rejuvenated in pre-season, but in his two seasons with the Oilers he's yet to show he can maintain any consistency... Sam Gagner needs to put a first-half together for the first time in three seasons and he'll have do it with Pat Quinn's shoe in his backside as he's starting on the fourth line.
Jason Gregor's Predictions
Outside of three teams, I think there are nine teams that could take the final five playoff spots.
The Sharks. They'll win the west by ten points, because they are the best regular season team in the league. Thornton and Heatley will light it up and the Shark Tank is still one of the most intimidating rinks in the league.
The Hawks. They are still very young, but their playoff run last year will only make them better. I'm still not sold on Huet, but the Hawks depth will push them to the top of their division.
The Wings. I'm sure sick of this team, because they aren't that exciting to watch, but man are they good. The Hawks will give them a run for the division, and I think the Wings will actually finish fourth, but they are in easily.
Now it gets difficult. Everyone is in love with the Canucks, and most are picking them to win the NW. Outside of the Sedin Sisters, they don't have many proven scorers up front. Will Burrows be that productive again? What about Kesler? I like the grit those two have so I'll go with the Canucks, but the NW will be tight.
In fifth I will go with the Blue Jackets. Derek Brassard will make Nash a 48-goal man this year, and the Jackets are loaded with young talented players. Their defense is questionable, but look for Scott Howson to address that as the year progresses.
The Flames won't be very exciting on or off the ice. They might have the worst quotable team in the league, but Brent Sutter will ensure they play stifling defence and finish 6th. The problem for the Flames is that they won't get out of the first round because Kiprusoff will be burnt out once again.
The Oilers were a speed bump down the stretch last year, and considering nine of their forward underachieved and they were still in the playoffs with ten games to go, I'll put them in 7th. Quinn and his staff will make them more accountable, and their goals against will go down. Their PK will be better and that probably gives them at least two more wins, toss in the new coaching staff and the Oilers manage to win the dog fight for the last two playoff spots.
My surprise pick will be the Los Angeles Kings finally getting to the dance. Drew Doughty is outstanding, and they have lots of depth up front. Their goaltending will be a question mark, but I like what Dean Lombardi has built in LA and the Kings will make the playoff for the first time since the 2001/2002 season.
The Blues will miss the playoff by one point, because they will be decimated by injuries again and many of their young kids won't perform like they did last season.
The Ducks are another team I have fallen out of the race. Their backend isn't as strong, and something tells me they are ready for an off-year. The Preds and Coyotes will also be close. The Avs will finish last and have the best odds of choosing first overall.
I do think that if any team from 4th to 12th suffers one or two significant injuries they won't make it to the dance. Let the games begin….
Jonathan Willis' Predictions
- Detroit
- San Jose
- Vancouver
- Chicago
- Anaheim
- Calgary
- Columbus
- Edmonton
- Minnesota
- Dallas
- Los Angeles
- St. Louis
- Nashville
- Phoenix
- Coloroado
These predictions were extremely difficult to put together. However, that's not going to stop me from starting at the top and working my way down through the flawed reasoning and poor assumptions that I used to create them.
Detroit's obviously a very good team, and while most people think San Jose will be better they've really done a number on their defensive depth over the summer and I think they might be in some trouble when injuries strike. I almost did something really wild and slotted Vancouver up top, but the Canucks are a little ways back of those first two teams. The other thing worth mentioning about Detroit is that I see Osgood as being significantly better in the regular season this year.
Chicago's in the same range as the top three teams, but I'd peg them just a little lower than the Red Wings. Anaheim underachieved last year, something that won't happen again, and Calgary's a very good team hampered by lousy goaltending. Columbus rounds out the best of the West; I'm banking here on an improved powerplay and no disappearing act from Steve Mason.
The teams ranked 8th through 13th are largely interchangeable, and it wouldn't surprised me at all to see the order's switched around at the end of the season. Edmonton has a bunch of question marks, the most serious of which is whether Nikolai Khabibulin is going to be a) healthy and b) motivated. The Minnesota Wild were actually quite a decent team last year in a lot of ways, but it's a season of transition for them with the departure of Lemaire. Turco should be better in Dallas, but I'm still not sold on their generic-brand defensive corps. I like most of what L.A. has done but I trust neither their goaltenders nor the health of guys like Smyth, Williams and Stoll. I've probably short-changed the Blues here (particularly if Kariya and McDonald come back strong from injury) but they were a miserable 5-on-5 team last year and that must change. Finally, Nashville's always a playoff threat but they're one of the least potent offensive teams in the NHL right now.
Off-ice issues in Phoenix have forced G.M. Don Maloney to go bargain-hunting; the team's performance will reflect that. Meanwhile Colorado, despite a decent new goaltender, is in complete rebuild mode, and have not one but two players from the last draft in the opening night lineup.
Wanye Gretz's Predictions
- Detroit
- San Jose
- Calgary
- Chicago
- Vancouver
- Anaheim
- Dallas
- Edmonton
As much as things have improved in San Jose with the addition of that son of a bitch Heatley, we can't see anyone taking down the Red Wings this season in the West. Those dinks in Calgary have greatly improved with the addition of Bouwmeester and unless Iginla decides to retire they should win the division - though they will lose to the Oilers in the seasonal series. The rest speak for themeselves until 8th place. We pick the Oilers to make the playoffs if only because they are going into the season with little love and low expectations. Translation: Expect a bounce back year from Les Oilers, who will make several large moves during the season changing their roster dramatically.
9. St. Louis 10. Nashville 11. Columbus 12. Minnesota 13. LA 14. Phoenix 15. Colorado
Know who sucks? These seven sucking teams made of suckers sure do! While most of these squads lay claim to "rebuilding" we know what these teams are really up to. Tax evasion. Tax evasion and murder for hire schemes. Pity the poor Coyotes down there at the bottom of the conference. Can you spell d-o-o-m-e-d? If only the worst thing that will happen to your team this year was missing the playoffs huh Phoenix? If only.... The Avalanche will smartly rebuild and be back in the playoffs within 4 years. Book it in your book of bookings.
Amber McCormick's Predictions
I am going to be first to admit that I am the worst at picking any long range predictions. I thought Beta would outlast VHS.
At risk of the backlash I could face or ridicule I will face, here are my predictions... random random predictions.
- San Jose- 114
- Detroit- 108
- Vancouver- 107
- Calgary- 104
- Edmonton- 103
- Chicago- 100
- Anaheim- 99
- Columbus- 97
- Minnesota- 96
- Nashville- 95
- Dallas- 93
- St. Louis- 93
- Los Angeles- 92
- Phoenix- 88
- Colorado- 80
I thought about this so much that at one point nothing made any sense!!!
bingofuel's Predictions
In order to predict the Western Conference standings at the end of the season, I mixed together several noxious chemicals and fed them to one of those sign-language-signing Gorillas. All that this resulted in was a horny gorilla chasing me around my basement. NOTHING MORE.
So I asked my roommate instead. He was passed out on the floor. His husky, Vinny, provided me with these answers.
All I'll say is this: I think/hope/can't promise but would like to think... that the Oilers make the playoffs this year. They have a lot going for them, and a lot working against them. I guess we'll get an idea of how much of a clust#$@% this'll be come Saturday...
- San Jose
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Calgary
- Vancouver
- Anaheim
- Dallas
- Edmonton
- Columbus
- Minnesota
- St. Louis
- Colorado
- Los Angeles
- Nashville
- Phoenix
The competition...
Read what the enemy has to say about the Western Conference:
October 02 2009, 12:03PM
[...] OilersNation.com's Western Conference Standings Predictions [...]
October 02 2009, 12:10PM
How come Ambers Name isn't bolded? Is she less of a man?
You must write more then 1 article per month to gain Bold status. :)
Thats not a dig at Amber but call for more articles.
Bingo, I love what you do and how you do it, but If Detroit comes in #2, I don't think Chicago can come in as #3...
October 02 2009, 12:16PM
@ Word:
Don't blame me. Uh, the dog ate my homework. Remember when I said I know little about hockey...
Also, I forgot. :(
October 02 2009, 12:16PM
@ Robert:
That's what happens when you code these things fast. It should be fixed now.
October 02 2009, 12:22PM
The mighty Oil will trade for Kovalchuck and get a third line center. Then they will be in the playoffs, win a round on stellar goaltending and trade Khabby while value is high. Is that too much to ask?
October 02 2009, 12:24PM
RossCreek's Predictions 1-San Jose 2-Detroit 3-Calgary 4-Chicago 5-Vancouver 6-St. Louis 7-Anaheim 8-Columbus 9-LA *darkhorse-sleeper-pick for most-improved* 10-Edmonton 11-Minnesota 12-Dallas 13-Nashville 14-Colorado 15-Phoenix
October 02 2009, 12:27PM
RossCreek wrote:
Ahem, don't you mean 8th ROSS CREEK!?!?!
October 02 2009, 12:29PM
1.Detroit 2.San Jose 3.Edmonton 4.Chicago 5.Calgary 6.Columbus 7.Los Angelas 8.St. Louis
Vancouver misses the playoffs when Luongo suffers a season ending injury during the Olympic break.
October 02 2009, 12:29PM
lol Angeles*** oops
October 02 2009, 12:30PM
I'm leery of expecting more than 50 games from Nikolai Khabibulin. Should be Italics here, but I'm not that smart.
What gets me is Quinn said Bulin for 40-60 games. 40?
October 02 2009, 12:31PM
Can't handle this blog. Everyone's style is different. Make Gregor redo his in a list form. Thanks
October 02 2009, 12:32PM
RossCreek wrote:
RossCreek's Predictions 1-San Jose 2-Detroit 3-Calgary 4-Chicago 5-Vancouver 6-St. Louis 7-Anaheim 8-Columbus 9-LA *darkhorse-sleeper-pick for most-improved* 10-Edmonton 11-Minnesota 12-Dallas 13-Nashville 14-Colorado 15-Phoenix
Ross Creek is spewing this 10th place bile all over the interwebs!
October 02 2009, 12:32PM
@ Wanye Gretz: If by 8th you mean 10th, then yes, my mistake ;-) I believe they'll be in playoff contention right down to the wire yet again (the more things change, the more they stay the same). They've go a decent shot - lets call them a 7-11 team (not cause they like nachos & slurpies).
October 02 2009, 12:34PM
San Jose Detroit Calgary Vancouver Chicago Anaheim Columbus Edmonton
St. Louis Dallas Nashville Los Angeles Minnesota Colorado Phoenix
October 02 2009, 12:35PM
@ OvenChicken8: Its easier to just write LA. See.
October 02 2009, 12:36PM
People are putting Anaheim high on their lists... I think Anaheim's season will be a FAIL
October 02 2009, 12:37PM
@ RossCreek: Yeah, that's what happens when I try to be all fancy and stuff. /facepalm
ronalo's predictions: (no bold because me know internet well not)
1)SJ 2)Detroit 3)Calgary 4)Chicago 5)Vancouver 6)Anaheim 7)St. Louis 8)Edmonton (damn straight) 9)Columbus 10)LA 11)Minnesota 12)Dallas 13)Nashville 14)Hamilton 15)Colorado
October 02 2009, 12:38PM
I've given up on predicting things. I'll just sit back, watch the fireworks and enjoy the success of our team. Hopefully they will be more than the disappointments.
Go Oilers Go, only 30 or so hours to go till puck drop...
October 02 2009, 12:41PM
Odgen Brother Jr. wrote:
Everyone's style is different.
*skips down the street, whistling some old-timey tune*
October 02 2009, 12:45PM
@ bingofuel:
Beauty work on the photoshop, incidentally...
October 02 2009, 12:48PM
Not much St. Louis love?
October 02 2009, 12:50PM
@ RossCreek: Not with all your Edmonton hating getting in the way, you big meany!
*runs away crying arms waving like Grover*
October 02 2009, 12:52PM
Doug Weight is now Captain of the Islanders.
Is it possible that the islanders made a good decision?
October 02 2009, 12:52PM
@ Fiveandagame: I haven't seen your picks yet. Where do YOU have the Oil? Is that why you have no list? Are you embarrassed~
October 02 2009, 12:55PM
Maybe we could get Stauffer and Tencer's picks if they're surfin the site? Where are you Nielson?
Go Oilers
October 02 2009, 12:57PM
@ RossCreek: The Oil are where they'll always be on any list for any true blue Oiler fan.
Presidents Trophy winners.
And of course Stanley Cup Champions.
Where other teams finish, it matters not.
And yes to answer your question I am delusional and do tend to drink heavily in the morning.
October 02 2009, 01:00PM
I agree with all that have us making the playoffs, Amber's is great - we will surprise a lot of people -mainly the so called eastern experts witha hate on for Edmonton. Personally I feel Van will be vey lucky to make the playoffs, too many people with one-time career years, the sisccer sisters will coast now that they have a long term deal (don't want no scars on that pretty face)and hey they are already whining about the schedule due to the olympics in between planning the cup parade My picks;
1- Detroit 2- San Jose 3- Chicago 4- Edmonton 5- Anaheim 6-Columbus 7- St Louis 8- Los Angeles or Van - fight to finish Dallas Minnesota Nashville Phoenix Colorado
Read more: http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/10/oilersnations-2009-10-western-conference-predictions/##ixzz0So3DnkoP
I 100% agree with Jonathan Willis, great job on the photoshop!
October 02 2009, 01:03PM
Top 5 goal scorers: Ovechkin-68 Kovalchuk-66 Heatley-62 Nash-56 Carter-50
Just in case I am right and then can brag about it and pretend I know something I will put in my own prediction:
1. Chicago 2. San Jose 3. Calgary 4. Detroit 5. Los Angeles 6. Columbus 7. Edmonton 8. Nashville
9. Anaheim 10.Vancouver 11.St Louis 12.Minnesota 13.Dallas 14.Colorado 15.Phoenix
This will Chicago's year. San Jose will have morale issues due to Dany F**king Heatley thinking he should be treated better than Thornton and lose the title. Detroit's old blood will fail in D and in net and you will see them slip a bit, but not enough to be out of the dance by any stretch... they are a good team, just not the best.
LA has enough talent and upside to surprise the snot out of everyone this year and i think they will be underestimated a few times which will win them enough spare points to be safely in the dance.
Vancouver is vulnerable to the injury bug. One of the Sedins will have a major one this year. They are due. When that happens the other's production will slump and we will see them start to slide. I think they overachieved last year and that is gonna catch up to them.
October 02 2009, 01:08PM
1. SJ 2. Det 3. Calgary 4. Hawks 5. Van 6. BJ's 7. Blues 8. Oil
9. Ducks 10. Wild 11. Kings 12. Preds 13. Stars 14. Yotes 15. Avs
October 02 2009, 01:09PM
Cam wrote:
Just in case I am right and then can brag about it and pretend I know something I will put in my own prediction:
Isn't that why everyone makes predictions? When you're right, you gloat. When you're wrong... 'huh, no I don't remember sayin that'
October 02 2009, 01:10PM
@ RossCreek: tough choices, I like your first 2, Nash - i don't know about that or 50 for carter but he has a better chance at that than nash has at 56 - I feel anyway and just to be pissy and bitter I really hope heatly only gets about 20
If the Oilers take advantage of the head-to-head matchups against the likes of Colorado and Phoenix, they will be in a good position. Against teams like L.A., Minny and Nashville, they have to at least break even. If they lose a season series to any of those teams, they are out. Its all about how they do in those meetings that determines wether they are in or not. If they manage to do something like that, it's a no brainer that they go in as a 6th to 8th feed. The top spot is a toss up between San Jose, Chicago and Detroit.
October 02 2009, 01:15PM
RossCreek wrote:
Cam wrote: Just in case I am right and then can brag about it and pretend I know something I will put in my own prediction: Isn't that why everyone makes predictions? When you're right, you gloat. When you're wrong… 'huh, no I don't remember sayin that'
LOL or you were drunk when you made the picks
Robin, did the Team1260 listeners or Gregor or somebody convince you Dallas isn't good enough to be in the top 8 ? You changed your pick from the other day.
What was the deciding point ?
October 02 2009, 01:18PM
Just got a surprise call and 2 good tickets to Saturday's game. If I wasn't excited before.....
Everyone seems to be in agreement for the most part on who the locks are and who the bubble teams for the playoffs are. So rather than make a pick for each spot i'm just going to say this. I think the Flames are a bubble team this year. They are up against the cap again (just like last year), and their goaltending has been in steady decline. I'm going to go way out on a limb (*takes huge hit from crack pipe) and say that the Flames will finish 9th this year.
October 02 2009, 01:29PM
Since we're throwing out wild predictions... ...Nashville will fall out early and trade Jason Arnott to the Toronto Maple Leafs
October 02 2009, 01:30PM
ronaldo wrote:
That's rich. Well played
October 02 2009, 01:32PM
@ ronaldo: @ Wanye Gretz: Ha, never caught that
October 02 2009, 01:34PM
[...] Here is the original post: OilersNation's 2009-10 Western Conference Predictions [...]
October 02 2009, 01:45PM
Gregor's latest tweet... ...Moreau is skating again and looks fine. If his ankle doesn't bother him he'll play on Saturday!
Drat! I woulda loved to see 'Fancy Pants' Nilsson in there.
RossCreek wrote:
Drat! I woulda loved to see 'Fancy Pants' Nilsson in there.
You would. Enemy come 7:59 Saturday night.
Oilers are a 7-10 team...but if they miss the playoffs, I'll be praying for a tank.
Start the mass exodus of bad contracts, land a high draft pick, and begin a proper rebuild.
October 02 2009, 01:49PM
just read that Schremp is a healthy scratch for opening night in NY.
Quinn/Renney will build a surprising New Oil: 1.CHI 2.DET 3.OIL 4.CGY 5.SJS 6.CBJ 7.LAX 8.COL


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A 26-minute first-half showing from Danny Cipriani helped the Rebels secure their first win of 2012 in a 30-29 triumph over the Force.
A 26-minute first-half effort from Danny Cipriani helped the Rebels to secure their first win of the season in a 30-29 triumph over the Force on Friday.
It was a fine showing from the soon-to-be Sale Sharks fly-half as he set up a try and scored one of his own before being taken off with a leg injury.
That cameo helped the Rebels into a 21-0 lead with just 22 minutes on the clock and from there they held off a spirited Perth outfit to claim victory.
The Rebels were struck by a double blow during the warm-up when James O'Connor and Richard King were both forced to pull out with repspective injuries. That meant a start for Lloyd Johannson and Julian Huxley while Nic Stirzaker and James Hilgendorf were called onto the bench. However, the absence of two of their key players did not hamper the Rebels as they put in an improved start from last week's against the Cheetahs.
It took just eight minutes for the hosts to get over the whitewash for the first score of the match when a flat ball from Cipriani found ex-Wasp Lachlan Mitchell, who had been moved from wing to outside centre at AAMI Stadium. That converted score was just the beginning of a purple patch for the Melbourne Rebels.
Cipriani seemed to be enjoying the freedom of running the backline without Wallaby star O'Connor outside him and when the bulky Johannson crossed six minutes after Mitchell, the home crowd were lapping up the good start. It was about to get better as when Mark Gerrard showed good skills down the right wing, the veteran looked inside to find Cipriani on hand. The Englishman had a clear run to the line and then performed a celebratory dance. It was his last offering as the number ten had strained a hamstring in the act of scoring.
The Force took full advantage of the disruption as David Pocock pounced on a loose ball that Pek Cowan had kicked on the floor. David Harvey kicked to make it 21-7 on 33 minutes.
Third-choice kicker Julian Huxley then landed a penalty for the Rebls, but the Force replied with their second try when centre Winston Stanley crossed before the break. It looked like the tide had turned as the visitors struck again after the break as wing Alfi Mafi capitalised on some weak tackling to score under the posts. Harvey made it 24-19 from the kicking tee.
Harvey reduced the arrears to two points before Huxley gave the Rebels some breathing space ahead of a score from Nick Cummins that hinted the result was heading west. The wing hit the tail of a line-out on 63 minutes to level the scores and Harvey did the rest.
But it was to be the Rebels' day as, with ten minutes left, Gerrard's long-range penalty ended their winless drought to help them up to thirteenth in the overall standings.
The scorers:
For Melbourne Rebels:
Tries: Mitchell, Johannson, Cipriani
Con: Cipriani 3
Pen: Huxley 2, Gerrard
For Western Force:
Tries: Pocock, Stanley, Mafi, Cummins
Con: Harvey 3
Pen: Harvey
Rebels: 15 Julian Huxley, 14 Mark Gerrard, 13 Lachlan Mitchell, 12 Lloyd Johannson, 11 Cooper Vuna, 10 Danny Cipriani, 9 Nick Phipps, 8 Gareth Delve (c), 7 Tom Chamberlain, 6 Jarrod Saffy, 5 Hugh Pyle, 4 Luke Jones, 3 Laurie Weeks, 2 Adam Freier, 1 Nic Henderson.
Replacements: 16 Ged Robinson, 17 Rodney Blake, 18 Alister Campbell, 19 Tim Davidson, 20 Michael Lipman, 21 Nic Stirzaker, 22 James Hilgendorf.
Western Force: 15 David Harvey, 14 Nick Cummins, 13 Will Tupou, 12 Rory Sidey, 11 Alfie Mafi, 10 James Stannard, 9 Brett Sheehan, 8 Matt Hodgson, 7 David Pocock (c), 6 Angus Cottrell, 5 Nathan Sharpe, 4 Sam Wykes, 3 Salesi Ma'afu, 2 Nathan Charles, 1 Kieran Longbottom.
Replacements: 16 Ben Whittaker, 17 Pek Cowan, 18 Toby Lynn, 19 Richard Brown, 20 Justin Turner, 21 Winston Stanley, 22 Samu Wara.
Referee: Marius Jonker (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Angus Gardner (Australia), Andrew Lees (Australia)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)


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Skip to comments.Statement by Secretary Hagel on DOMA Ruling
Posted on 06/26/2013 2:15:49 PM PDT by MrShoop
The Department of Defense welcomes the Supreme Court's decision today on the Defense of Marriage Act. The department will immediately begin the process of implementing the Supreme Court's decision in consultation with the Department of Justice and other executive branch agencies. The Department of Defense intends to make the same benefits available to all military spouses -- regardless of sexual orientation -- as soon as possible. That is now the law and it is the right thing to do.
Every person who serves our nation in uniform stepped forward with courage and commitment. All that matters is their patriotism, their willingness to serve their country, and their qualifications to do so. Today's ruling helps ensure that all men and women who serve this country can be treated fairly and equally, with the full dignity and respect they so richly deserve.
Dear God!
This is absolutely terrifying.
The Onion might as well go out of business, because who can tell the difference anymore?
(wasted no time)
Try the other thread where the WH is celebrating gays in the military and the fact that it makes the country safer.
Take oxygen with you.
It is hard to believe that I would ever agree with Obama's Rev Wright...but the more America turns its back on God, the more certain the judgment that will follow.
Chuck Hagel - REPUBLICAN.
I'll need it too.
Lets hear it for another RINO Republicans voted in so we'd have a majority. LMAO...
Question: Will anyone remember this the next time a RINO runs?
Answer: ROTFLOL
Oh, we've got to vote for them..., that way when they something the Left can say, we'll, the Republicans voted for it too.
God, spare me...
Now I have to add this jackass to my prayer list. God help me.
" God, spare me..."
Good request, as He may be on his way here.
Lord, deliver us from this evil.
Chuck Hagel - REPUBLICAN
His party affiliation matters not.
He is a piece of dog dump.
is it true that 75 % of Americans are Gay ?
Short of divine intervention, there is no way to save a nation that gives in to a depraved mind.
Our military is being run by sick, evil scumbags.
The sin is serious enough but they don't even realize how stupid they are. Is this what the do for work on our dime?
If I had told my boss, I was holding a celebration for gays, he would have put a boot up the bootie and said celebrate that and then get your a$$ back to work.
"Every person who serves our nation in uniform stepped forward with courage and commitment."
Unless they happen to shoot up a base while screaming Allahulakbar!, in which case we must find out how we failed them.
He may indeed...
When I told a fried Today about the DOMA ruling he said to me he was afraid that God would turn his back on America.
I told him I was worried God Would turn his front toward America and show his displeasure for all the crap that is going down like Government meddling in Marriage, Abortion, aiding and abetting Satanic Cults and Satanic Countries. Etc.
Hagel's nutso leftism was a permanent fixture on the Sunday morning shows. It is why the liberal press liked him and why Obama did too.
Hagel loves kissing his master's boot.
This should answer my dad's questions about Hagel. Dad is up in years and still thinks that if bad stuff was happening FNC would report it, so he doesn't believe the country is as bad off as it really is. He and Mom are dealing with enough hard stuff so it's better if I don't even go into it with them.
My mind runs along those lines too. Sad day actually...
Hagel is a big fan of sodomy. No surprise.
Don't forget, all they wanted was to be left alone and free to love who they wanted without bothering anyone else. Remember that?
Now you can't keep their literature out of our K-12th grade schools.
What an honest bunch.
When our troops are nothing but fags, Muslims and gang members, Democrats better hope we don't have to go to war.
"Question: Will anyone remember this the next time a RINO runs?"
Well, I live in Maine and Susan Collins is up for re-election in November 2014. I doubt if she will face a primary challenger.
I will either vote for a third party or I will write in someone else's name on the ballot. I'm done with RINO's.
Loft somebody. If you have to do it yourself approach good people and see what you come up with.
Perhaps you could find a retired person with good sound values.
We should all be done with RINOs. If you do get someone to run, watch folks like Rove swarm you.
Get them on that Blaze!
I don't think we had much choice but to pass Prop 8. It was looking more and more like cities and then the state would buy in. We hoped to pre-empitvely put an end to that. So we did what we're supposed to, we won, and the courts nullified it. That's a great big screw you to the Citizens.
His party affiliation surely does matter. Hagel absolutely personifies how left the republican party has gone and continues to do so.
Jerry Rivers is a Republican too. **hahahahaha**
Our military is being sodomized and feminized. A good number of Republican elected officials voted for the former.
Ah, but FNC would think that the Blaze is crazy, conspiratorial stuff so it must be. I must be.
Isn't it great that the slander of the press and the discriminatory labeling by this regime is a victimless crime - doesn't cause any real harm to any of us little people? We lose nothing of value - just our good name and our families...
What a tool. Are these the same benefits that they are constantly trying to take away from our brave military personnel?
I know it's a rhetorical question but does any idiot on the left actually listen to the crap they spew?
rot in hell, hagel.
Once you go down that road then the Government has power over the issue.
Once they get the power over something they will never let it go.
In the coming years watch as the Government starts taking over Churches piece by piece in the name of equal protection and all because they are granted "Tax Exempt" status.
I mean, get your parents on The Blaze!
Thanks for the reminder. So is McCain, Graham and Rubio.
Once again, stick a fork in it America we're done.
Today is another result. So are Supreme Court appointments, Obamacare; etc .
I think you make some good points there. As for the latter, I agree there too.
Just wait until we really get into a scrape and realize that virtually every company and field grade officer worth anything has left the service.
I figure soon it will be mandated that Churches cannot dismiss Clergy based on Sexual Orientation via "equal protection under the law" as their validation for meddling.
You pray for liberals? Seriously. Out of respect to our Lord during prayer time, at least I won't have the hypocrisy to fake my hatred for these scumbags.
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"NY, NJ Lawmakers Want Ammunition Sales Restricted"
Is Not Available At This Time.
NY, NJ Lawmakers Want Ammunition Sales Restricted
Please enter your comments below.
Here's the answer.
Don't change any gun laws. BUT change the pricing. Tax bullets to the point where they cost about a thousand dollars each.
Typical dumb politician agenda
Banning the sale of bulk ammo is not going to deter anybody. I have not seen any crime committed by anybody that used 3000 rounds of ammo. North Hollywood shootout was an exception but no ban could not have prevented that. If people want to commit a mass murder, they don't need 1000 rounds. Also people blaming movies and games for this act is BS. So the movie loaded your drum magazine and cocked it too? I think not. All these bills and changes hurt the legit people like me who buy bulk 5.56 rounds for target shooting.
An End Run Around Gun Control
If they can't supposedly control guns then they will control ammo. It's a way around the issue and they will claim it's not gun control. You can't shoot an empty gun...
Well, I propose a ban on purchasing more than 100 cigaretes, 30 beers, 12 rolls of paper towels, 250 toothpicks, etc. Obviously anyone who is purchasing these large quantities to save money are up to no good!. Better yet force them to show photo ID to make these large purchases, and send it to the police.........REALLY.......Idiots can propose anything, we will not stand for it.
lawmakers show true side
they have been quiet on the gun issue lately,but they were waiting for something like this shooting to push there true mission,ban guns and bullets.no bullets ,no need for the gun but a paper weight.vote freedom first this nov.!!
Ahh Yes
It's the legal gun owners that are affected. Ammo plays no roll in shootings because it only takes 1 shot to kill. Arm everyone and the problem will go away. Those who are afraid of fire arms, cower in your corner you goofy Liberal. You are thenumber 1 problem this country has.
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New blog location!
Please follow this link here to find the new blog entries. Sorry for the muck-around.
Phone Marcus Baumgart on +61(0)418 347 024
marcus[at]theflawedmind.comView Marcus Baumgart's profile
Please follow this link here to find the new blog entries. Sorry for the muck-around.
Perhaps it is the smell of a recent by-election in the air, or the fact that I am mired in an inner-city left-wing caffe-latte sipping ghetto, but I really had to write about la dolce vita and Italy today. I fully understand that with all the turmoil and hardship abroad in the world right now, not being in Italy is really not something to complain about. Nevertheless, this blog has to touch on the good things in life from time to time, and those pastries really were tasty. Perhaps this weekend I should sit in the sun at Brunetti in City Square, and just pretend: yes, that will do. In the meantime, forgive the indulgence.
Today I sit having my lunch in a café in Carlton, Victoria, a suburb of Melbourne notable for its distinctive Italian influences. The café where I am writing is neither Italian nor notable, offering instead the kind of Australian 'take away' food you might find in many suburbs of our cities. My lunch consisted of a salty and thoroughly forgettable chicken stir fry, served with sticky steamed rice and chased down by a passable Vittoria coffee.
I am dwelling on the details because today I am in a frame of mind to notice such things, and I find that I have Italy on my mind. Perhaps my reminiscence has been partly triggered by today's weather - an alternately sunny/overcast day with big clouds battling for dominance over deep patches of blue sky - putting me in mind of an Italian sky?
Whatever the reason, I find my mind wandering back to a morning spent with friends on the Isle of Capri. In particular I remember the blue tablecloth of such a vibrant hue that it seemed to glow, the backdrop of yet another shared round of canoli and cornetta cioccolato accompanied by excellent coffee. I remember this moment primarily because I took the photograph shown above; I took the photograph at the time because the colours were so vivid, we all thought the pastries looked so good, and all seemed well in the world.
It is such a simple thing, a pastry in a café, but it is just the kind of simple pleasure that Italy does so well. Of course, what I really wanted to write about was the depths of my desire to be in Italy, a desire that is present whenever I find myself in a café, or whiling away a spare moment in idleness. I have an ache for Italy, a deep sense of the rightness of the place and a conviction of the inevitability of my returning there, despite any economic and social disadvantages it may be suffering.
I wish I were there right now.
I write because I love the angle of the wall as it meets the ceiling, just over there near the head of that black timber window. I write because I love the cold, flat grey light of winter, the stillness of those ugly trees in the chilly midday air, and the way Melbourne's footpaths change from grey to black under a light fall of rain. I write because I love a messy house, because I hate housework, because I hate going to the supermarket on a Saturday and because I want to exist long after I have turned to dust. I write to remember that part of my day is worthwhile, even while some gets wasted; I write to remember to take it easy, to take it long and low and to draw out the strokes of my lazy afternoons.
I write despite having no ideas about what to write. Having an idea for a story is like having an idea for a poem: it doesn't lead anywhere in itself. It is merely the conscious mind attempting to take control and set the agenda. It is not productive. I seem to get this with poetry more than prose: I begin a poem because I find the fragment of a poem in my mouth and on my tongue, a stray association of words that has sprouted like a seed from my subconscious. I should try this more with prose.
Story ideas are a red herring. They miss the point. They are 'about' and not 'of'. They are desperate attempts to herd fish when the real game is a shotgun blast in a salad bowl. If an idea has value it will emerge from the seeds of free writing. If it does not it will not: something else will emerge instead. Something strange that will take root and grow out of the fertile soil of steady production. And production is everything: to write, and to write and to write.
So I write through interruptions, through rain storms, and through the beats and chimes of this drawn out Friday afternoon. I write through application and concentration. I write through the eye of a needle, threading each sentence through the eye just one word thick, one word at a time. Sometimes I write through a fine, white gauze I call Mental Muslin.
I write imperfectly and impatiently. I write enough for now, and then some more for later. I write up and I write down, and I am working on writing sideways as well, but I am not there yet.
I am therefore I write, but the am came first.
I have successfully banished my writer's block, and I am feeling positively incendiary. I feel like I have been circling around a method of writing practice, slowly zeroing in on the sweet spot. This process is inspired at least in part by the delightfully neurotic and generous frankness of Anne Lamott's 'Bird by Bird'; and to a lesser extent by Natalie Goldberg in 'Writing Down the Bones', where she takes a slightly more Zen approach, with less swearing.
The emphasis in Goldberg is on 'first thoughts', and in writing in an unfettered manner, with your whole body attuned to the pen and the paper. I can relate to this mostly through suffering (often enough) from the opposite condition - writing in a constrained and straight-jacketed way, using my conscious mind far too much, which means working against the subconscious or unconscious. Thinking rather than doing.
While Goldberg speaks of the hand and the pen, I have expanded her observations to include the hand and the keyboard. I can touch type at about 80-90 words per minute, and to do so feels like an unconscious and fluid process, so I mix up hand writing (longhand) with typing and the occasional speaking into a recording device. At the moment I am buzzing, and I feel like doing all three at once.
You may have noticed that I have also been working on the peripheral parts of this website, streamlining the story I tell about myself to focus more intently on the writing. The writing's the thing: everything else is secondary. All in all, despite being buried here in mid-winter in Melbourne, it feels like a time of renewal and change: a Springtime of the soul. Let's see if I can sustain this fertile and provocative frame of mind.


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Early Thursday morning a number of our advertising customers (particularly those who run classified liner ads) started receiving calls from a woman named Melissa that claimed she was a representative of the Sun Advocate and Emery County Progress and told them that they owed money for their ads. She also said that payment was due and asked them for credit card information to make the payment.
Neither of our papers - the Sun Advocate nor the Emery County Progress - have anyone calling customers asking for that information in connection with advertising. These calls are not from us or anyone affiliated with us, but from someone trying to get information from our customers they can use.
If you receive such a call, please tell them that you will contact the Sun Advocate office (435-637-0732) to discuss the issue and please do not give them any information over the phone or through email. Afterwords, please call us and let us know someone has called, and please note the following: (1) Get the calling person's full name; (2) See if you can get a phone number off of caller ID or from them; (3) Listen to the person and determine if they have any unusual speech patterns (such as an accent).
We believe that the scammers are taking phone numbers off classified ads that are appearing on our Web site. We don't know of anyone who has been taken in by this scam, but if you have given your information out to someone who called in the name of our newspapers, please call us and let us know.
The Price Police Department has been contacted and is investigating, but we need anyone who has come in contact with these people to call us and let us know.
Thanks for your help and cooperation.
Richard Shaw
Emery County Progress