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Skip to comments.American Idol 2012--Live Thread
Posted on 01/18/2012 11:41:39 AM PST by silent_jonny
At least she will be free of an Idol contract.
What was your take on J Lo's reaction ?
Nope, as I wrote last night...she completely blew the Dusty Springfield song — she did not understand it at all.
Skylar sings out with Miranda Lambert's "Gunpowder & Lead". Singing it like she wasn't just eliminated, fully composed. Hollie is weeping.
Hope they have Miranda on speed-dial for the finale.
OMg, she IS! Too funny!
I hope so! I would buy her music. And she's such a nice kid—ATV, deer rifles :-) She knows what's important.
Given tonight's results the best I can hope for is a Hollie and Joshua finale.
Jessica and P-squared dodged some bullets tonight.
Skylar will be better off not being stuck in a winner's contract. She's gonna be huge on the country charts. Good for her!
Yep, Carrie was the highlight of the show. Why couldn't they have two Carrie peformances and only one Coldplay.
LOL! Serously? Is Tom Brokaw busy that night?
Hi, Patriot :)
What are the voters thinking?
"If you would like to vote for Obama ..."
Obama holds up the appropriate last digits with this fingers while grinning next to Seacrest.
It's not far-fetched.
Interesting results.
I haven't been ranking the contestants this year, but I would rate the Top 5 as follows...
1. Joshua - He seems to have the complete package of the group, good singing, good performing, can bring back the classic R&B style a la Raphael Saadiq.
2. Jessica - Best singer of the girls. Great talent at only 16, sometimes her youth shows, and has room to grow as a performer.
3. Skylar - Best performer of the girls and could be the top money-maker of the group, or at least on tour. Bummer she goes out in fifth place. Kellie Pickler has made a good career despite finishing lower than fifth.
4. Hollie - Has her moments, and did well this week.
5. Phillip - His run should have ended weeks ago, I can't imagine listening to a whole album of his with his monotonous style (and I generally dislike most of Dave Matthews' work, whom Phillip is oft compared to), and he had a particularly bad week this week, but oh well. Always avoid the bottom.
Just not my cup o tea, I guess.
Ever since he was compared to Fantasia he's become screechier and screechier. He used to sing.
She's a better singer than he is.
I wouldnt go THAT far! I think they both suck as singers.
I can't wait to hear what the theme is next week....But you can bet your butt, they will be playing up Joshua and Jessica...I am all in for Hollie just now...I think P Squared has had a good run, but as has been said so many times, every song sounds the same...AND if he stays on the program, and they keep making him sing with Joshua...I think the kid will end up needing therapy!
I completely agree.
Create chaos. Distract the public and media with the chaos. Continue to bypass Congress, the courts and the Constitution while everyone is looking the other way.
I've heard more interesting music at the dentist's office.
HAHAHA! That's going in the file!
That Kirk gif comes in handy :)
I want to see that file! ;-)
If--God forbid--you do have to use the gun, don't stop at one or two bullets. Empty it.
Yes! No suffrage for Ferlies! ;)
You called it :o
I'll go with great minds ;)
I'll take anything over Coldplay :) But yeah, that wasn't her best song.
Right again. I guess I was being optimistic that Phillips would be in the bottom two.
I agree. He doesn't appear to care if he stays on the show or not.
I don't know what they did--or what we did--to deserve an encore performance.
Whatever it was, I won't do it again :)
You're right. I forgot they had a Country double-bill last year.
Hollie's the only real choice now. Between her, two screechers and a Dave Matthews clone--she might have a shot.
Hmmm ... If I were the suspicious type I would say she scheduled her other plans for the sole purpose of missing Coldplay!!
*Lightning flashes! All heads turn to RK, a sinister grin spreading across her face as she pulls a gun on Colonel Mustard!*
"That's right! I did it! And I'd do it again!"
*banging head on keyboard*
Hi Nea :)
You did what you had to do ;)
For a minute I thought you'd had another ...
LOL, I have been stuck on a lot of phone calls this year when the show is on. That is when I silently disappear. Tonight, it was just work emails though:)
My sentiments exactly...it will be the revenge vote. The Skylar fans will now go to her BFF Hollie. :)
JLo's reaction...you mean the fake tear she wiped away on cue?
Hello, fans! One of these nights I'll actually follow in real time. I'm still a Hollie fan and my 200+ votes last night must have done some good. :) My question is...just who the heck is voting in droves for Jessica and Joshua? And Carrie Underwood...she had me running to the remote screaming—shut up!!!
>>Next week Phillip will do his own version of mommas dont let your babies grow up to be cowboys.....<<
"Mamas don't let your Davies grow up to be Matthews..."
Dial Idol was right on the money last week.
It doesn't matter. If Phillip Phillips can beat the incredible Skylar Laine after his abysmal performance last night, he's unbeatable.
Jessica, Joshua, Hollie and Skylar can all SING. Phillips' domination of the vote this year is proof that America has the musical taste of a fence post.
Shoot...grown people on this very thread are pulling for him because he's a heartthrob. Isn't it sweet?
Well, in fact I do! That's a stunning insight to have gleaned from reading an American Idol thread. If I didn't know better I'd think you've been reading my posts...but I know nobody on this thread does.
So thanks for not reading this!
I think so. Jimmy was going on about the meaning of song but it seems Jimmy has been in Hollywood to long. Sorry Jimmy you need to put away your poncho and your fringe vest and quit burning fake draft cards it is not 1960 anymore. Middle American is too busy being the ones that is putting their lives at risk for freedom, working building businesses, taking care of their families to listen the class warfare crap and the 99% that don't count.
Someone needs to point out to Jimmy that today's men and women of the military are all volunteers going out putting their lives on line fighting the war on terror so he can pontificate about the meaning of that song and other meaningless drivel that spills out of his brain. Don't get me wrong Jimmy is a great producer but he does not have a clue about fly over country.
Someone also needs to fill J'lo in that if middle America is not up to her speed and doesn't see things her way, as in whatever she was trying to say about Jessica, that middle America just might be right and she needs to reevaluate her judgment. Talk about your backhanded compliments. Sorry J'lo it was not the dress she is just boring everybody to sleep. To me it was like the producers said "Hey we need to cut back on pimping JS so much" so make up something about how she dresses. Lame.
I'm very upset that Skylar is no longer on the show — she is a true, raw talent of the likes that we haven't seen since Heart, Joplin and Ronstadt in the 1970's...
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subset: commoncrawl


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TUSCON, ARIZ./PRICE,UTAH- Frances Peternel, age 87, passed away Sept. 22, 2012 in Tucson, Ariz.
Funeral Mass Friday, Oct. 12, 2012, 10 a.m., Notre Dame de Lourdes Catholic Church. Vigil service Thursday evening 7 p.m., Mitchell Funeral Home. Committal Service Price City Cemetery. Arrangements entrusted to Mitchell Funeral Home of Price where friends may share memories of Frances at www.mitchellfuneralhome.net.


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View Topic "Which dac do i use?"
Posted By: Pierre Lauzon
Total Posts: 1
Joined Date: 29 Dec 2012
I use a Naim ND5XS with a Synology DS212J as a NAS. Problem: i purchased 2files in flac with a 96khz streaming rate. When reading the files, the Naim sees each track in 44khz; each track are flac but are read in Wav format; and if a track is 2 minutes long, the Wav file beeing read is 4 minutes creating a long blank. As anyone obseved these eerrors? Thks in advance for any solutions.
Posted By: árni Möller
Total Posts: 3
Joined Date: 5 Jan 2013
Hello all, new around these woods.
Just downloaded my first DSD file from Channel Classic Records. Have been researching the DSD format for a few days through Google, and wanted to check whether this format would play on my RME UFX soundcard, which i use for location recording choir and chamber music, as well as using it as a DAC for my home listening.
Long story short - RME UFX does not support DSD (I knew - but wanted to check o:) but my JRiver 18 player on my laptop handles DSD nicely by down sampling to a format the UFX can handle.
On the other hand the DA converter in the RME UFX is rather nice sounding and has given me countless hours of listening pleasure.
Now my next step will be to obtain a DSD ready DAC. After thorough research I probably will be ordering the MYTEK STEREO 192-DSD DAC.
Seems to be a lovely box in every way.
Will serve both for home listening and as a mastering DAC in my amateur recordings.
Best regards
Arni Moller
Posted By: Channel Classics
Total Posts: 12
Joined Date: 19 Apr 2012
When Channel started with the DSD files in February there were two DACs available that could playback native DSD. Now there are at least 10, with more coming on line every month. There is even development for multichannel!
Mytek and Benchmark seem to be the favorites in the price class between 1500 and 2500 dollars. I would definitely not overlook some of the more expensive units however so that you understand what your money is buying. Some of the more expensive units are already gearing up for future developments that could make your purchase longer lasting.
Posted By: árni Möller
Total Posts: 3
Joined Date: 5 Jan 2013
anything in particular you would prefer as DSD DAC if I was able to stretch my budget a little beyond say 2500 USD?
Posted By: ANDREW TILLEY
Total Posts: 15
Joined Date: 13 May 2012
I have just received an Exasound e20 DSD DAC. It is around your price if you are in Canada or the USA. For the money it has to be the best available. CDs sound unbelievable through this DAC. There is far more detail, more space more everything in fact. You will not be disappointed if you listen to this one. PCM is superb but best of all is native DSD. If you have top end equipment then this is the one to listen to. This is set up for future developments so your money will be well spent. I cannot recommend this highly enough. If you are in Europe send me a message as I am going to import them for over here!
View Topic "Which dac do i use?"


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The Curious Case of Tod Button
Ryan Pike
May 14 2012 06:02PM
Among the more interesting mysteries surrounding the modern Calgary Flames can be found in its scouting ranks. Originally hired as an amateur scout in the summer of 1997 by then-general manager Al Coates, Tod Button soon moved up the ranks and became the head of Flames scouting in the fall of 2001. By sheer coincidence, the person who promoted him was his brother, Craig.
Now, despite being the primary consistent architect of what's been derided by hockey media folks as one of the weaker prospect bases in the league, Tod Button remains the head of Flames amateur scouting. Last summer's much-ballyhooed shake-up of the scouting department had one major impact on Button: he was placed directly underneath assistant general manger John Weisbrod (the new head of all scouting), but remained the head honcho of organizations drafting department.
To understand how, exactly, Tod Button still has a job with the Calgary Flames, let alone the same job he's had for over a decade, it's worthwhile to delve into his drafting record.
The Resume
Since he became head of amateur scouting in 2001, Button has overseen the drafting of 76 players at the NHL Entry Draft. If the measure of a scouting staff is how well they can find players that are able to make the jump to the professional ranks, then the best measure of Button's worth would be how many of those 76 have took the big step into the pro ranks.
To date, 37 of Button's draftees have turned pro with the Flames organization (including Sven Baertschi and Max Reinhart). That's 48.7% of drafted players. If you exclude the last two drafts, as those players are just becoming eligible for full-time pro hockey, then the "conversion rate" jumps to 53.8%. This isn't all that exciting a figure, as it indicates that just under half of all the players that Button drafted never played a single minute for any of its affiliated pro teams, including AHL and ECHL clubs.
That said, Button does seem to be in the midst of a very good tear in this respect, during which half of the drafted players have turned pro with the organization in 5 of 6 recent drafts.
- 2004 Draft: 10 players drafted, 6 turned pro (Kris Chucko, Brandon Prust, Dustin Boyd, Aki Seitsonen, Adam Pardy and Adam Cracknell)
- 2005 Draft: 8 players drafted, 7 turned pro (Matt Pelech, Gord Baldwin, Dan Ryder, J.D. Watt, Kevin Lalande, Matt Keetley and Brett Sutter)
- 2007 Draft: 5 players drafted, 3 turned pro (Mikael Backlund, John Negrin and Keith Aulie)
- 2008 Draft: 7 players drafted, 5 turned pro (Greg Nemisz, Mitch Wahl, Lance Bouma, T.J. Brodie and Ryley Grantham)
- 2009 Draft: 6 players drafted, 3 turned pro (Ryan Howse, Joni Ortio and Gaelan Patterson).
After reading this list of draft picks, an immediate thought is that there aren't a whole lot of big-time impact NHLers drafted under Button's watch. Outside of Dion Phaneuf, whom the organization openly coveted, Mikael Backlund represents the only first-round pick to crack the everyday Flames line-up. However, all the first rounders but Tim Erixon turned pro with the club (and Erixon was moved for Roman Horak, who did), while Pelech and Chucko struggled due to injuries sustained after they were drafted. Hard to blame Button for that, especially with the reputation Darryl Sutter had in terms of being hands-on with choosing first round picks.
The Late Show
It's probably the later rounds where Button has sang for his supper, so to speak. Brandon Prust and Adam Pardy became regular NHL players while Lance Bouma and T.J. Brodie are arguably everyday Flames roster players heading into next season. John Negrin and Dustin Boyd went pro and then were traded for decent assets – Akim Aliu for Negrin, and the draft pick used to select NCAA standout Bill Arnold for Boyd. Brett Sutter became a capable pro for such a late pick, then was used to help acquire a very underrated Tom Kostopoulos.
This is also ignoring Button's contributions over the past two drafts. With no first or second round picks in 2010, Button seemingly ran the show at the draft. He used six picks to bring in a bunch of players from different sources, including Max Reinhart and Michael Ferland, who both could contend for roster spots in Calgary in a short while. Late 2011 pick Laurent Brossoit was just named the MVP of the WHL's playoffs, while John Gaudreau was a point-per-game player in his rookie season in the NCAA.
And of course 2011 first-rounder Sven Baertschi, chosen when the Flames staff was instructed to "work their list" at the draft, played a handful of games for Calgary and had a dominant season in the WHL.
In short, it appears that Tod Button has a job because the failure of the Calgary Flames to draft well in the first round wasn't held against him. This may have been because the general manager was more involved in those picks than in the later rounds, where Button's scouting staff found a number of players that turned pro and became useful NHL players or at least became assets that could be moved for other pieces of the puzzle. The positive results of the past two drafts probably haven't hurt his stock within the organization either.
May 14 2012, 10:29PM
No offense Rex, but the length of your posts makes them them ineffective. You are a great contributor on these sites. However, I just skip past them as soon as i see a RexLibris post.
May 14 2012, 06:06PM
To really grade the Flames scouting staff, we'd have to look at base rate success across the league in terms of turning kids pro and then turning them into useful NHLers.
It makes me wonder how much randomness there is in picking 17 year old kids and trying to project their abilities outward. It would be really interesting to see if any team consistently beats out the league average (or falls way behind) or if it's all just one big crap shoot.
Anyways, on topic, Button's last two drafts seem to have been decent and a move away from the days of picking coke machines and "guys who wear letters". We'll if that continues or not this year.
Later round is always a crap shoot, so Button hasn't done a bad job IMO, with also picking pretty well the least out of pretty well all the teams, the amount of players going pro isn't bad either.
take a look at the los angeles kings. brown,kopitar,doughty,king,bernier,quick ....
@Kent Wilson
I have read several articles over the past two years on draft success and ranking each team across the league over the last five to ten years. The Flames, if I recall correctly, are nearer the bottom third of that ranking but not abysmally so.
As in most things, it depends on the criteria and the boundaries set for such an evaluation.
If one decides that a player selected becoming a professional player at any level in affiliation with the drafting club qualifies as a positive, while those outside that criteria are a negative, then the Flames, in my opinion, have had average success in keeping with the rest of the league.
If one looks at the quality of those players drafted and developed and the impact those players have had on the NHL, with special attention to those who have had an impact on the same team that drafted them, then that success rate would drop drastically.
Alter the criteria and you can get a vastly different picture based on the data. I know you know this I'm just including it for the sake of the conversation here.
The Detroit Red Wings have blown probably as many draft picks as the Flames and many others. It is only their spectacular successes that have them in the hallowed halls because the Flames successes have all been more pedestrian.
I don't think that the draft is entirely an exercise in random chance, but it does require a great deal of homework and some intuition or an ability to be able to read people and speculate on their strengths and weaknesses. An understanding of the mathematical analyses of their performance is a necessity now as well.
All that aside, fans are disappointed when a draft pick fails because, in my opinion, we place too much faith on the system and too much pressure on the individual.
These are young men, first and foremost, and trying to determine what a full-grown adult will become five or ten years into the future is difficult enough, not to mention what the chances of success are for what is only just a legal adult of 18.
Here are the thirty teams ranked from 1st to 30th in drafting success based on the number of picks from 2001 to 2011:
CLB 18 (not sure how this one ranks lower, typo?)
TBL 6.6 (big drop off)
As with any stat, I don't think tells the whole story, and one can always question some of the rankings, but the link to the article is here:
take a look at the los angeles kings. brown,kopitar,doughty,king,bernier,quick ....
Not quite sure what you are implying, Brown, Kopitar, Doughty and Bernier were all first round picks, something that was being taken care of by Sutter rather than Button and Sutter did a terrible job with his 1st rounders. King and Quick are the later rounders (4th and 3rd respectively). Than again Button may have found some good later rounders in Broissot and Ferland as well.
the kings and the manchester monarch rosters are chalk full of draft choices. the flames selection of flat tires is not limited to first rounders exclusively. many mid and late rounders were questionable at the time, as well as today.
Mismanagement of a team's NHL roster can also lead to more of a team's picks making it to the show. If a team makes poor moves which leads to holes needing to be filled in their roster then they'll try to use guys in their system to plug those holes. Trickling down through their system they might sign guys who probably shouldn't be pro to fill the holes created on the the farm.
A lot of a team's draft history has to do with the direction given to the scouts by the GM and, by extension, management. Sutter gave Button a mandate of what to prioritize at the draft. Most GMs do unless they have specifically given the scouts free reign, something that is, from what I understand, fairly uncommon.
As an example, in Edmonton Stu MacGregor has had a decent track record to date at the draft. However, Tambellini has said that at the end of the day, if all things are equal between two prospects then he has the tie-breaker. Recently it has been suggested that MacGregor be given more leeway in his drafting selection and that the GM's involvement be limited to either acquiring or trading away draft picks.
Given Sutter's record of management style it is likely that he gave Button a shopping list of qualities to value and when Button arranged that list based on prospects that exhibited those qualities Sutter asked them to select the available prospects based on that ranking. Essentially that is what a draft is. Selection based on ranked, available, amateur talent. The fault lies not in poor luck because that affects every team's draft record over time. Luc Bourdon, Alexei Cherepanov, Jiri Fischer and Brian Berard are all examples of prospects wherein bad luck played a significant part in their impact on the selecting team.
Sutter bears some of the blame, in my opinion, as he was the one who prioritized the qualities. But the blame should also extend to ownership who chose, and were forced at times due to economic constraints, to forfeit the price of investment in prospect development. Again, looking at the Oilers as an example of budget constraints and their harmful effects on player development, they shared an AHL team with the Penguins in Wilkes-Barre Scranton and then spent several years understaffing their AHL teams.
Good news for the Canadiens though, it appears that if the Habs sign him he has to stay away from the draft this June. That should give the Canadiens the drafting edge over Toronto.
@ First name
Lame post man. Keep that to yourself.
I like the article, and it makes an interesting point. Lets see how this next draft goes, if it's like the last one we just might be restocking the shelves nicely.
the kings and the manchester monarch rosters are chalk full of draft choices. the flames selection of flat tires is not limited to first rounders exclusively. many mid and late rounders were questionable at the time, as well as today.
Other than the last two years, from 2004 and on the LA kings have had about 9-10 draft picks a year. The Flames on the other hand, drafted on average about 6-7 guys a year. Going back to some of Kents other articles, could have been other contributors, using the example of Dale Tallon when he was in Chicago, sometimes it was the sheer amount of picks and getting lucky. When you have an extra 3-4 picks a year you have a higher chance at finding a draft pick that pans out.
Right now Feaster is still working under what Sutter left him with, few draft picks, bad contracts and poor prospect pool. For example looking at the Nemisz draft, other than Wahl and Deilart all the guys drafted are 'big' guys and other than Brodie, the typical Sutter draft type of guy. In that draft we could have had an Ennis or Eberle, but that wasn't what Sutter prioritized, which is why I'm sure he didn't select Backlund, someone else must have really convinced him to take him.
The biggest thing is trying to accumulate as many picks as possible, the higher the better of course, but without the picks, you don't even give yourself the chance to get lucky on a late rounder.
May 14 2012, 11:36PM
@First Name Unidentified
I think Rex is shooting to be an author around here rather than just a commenter ;)
May 15 2012, 12:38AM
To be honest, I almost always check out what Rex writes.
@Kent Wilson
I've been curious about the effects of variance on the draft for a long time. It seems you can maximize your chances of success through a few things, but in the end you're pretty much hoping for the best.
May 15 2012, 08:45AM
I used to skip Rex's comments because they appeared too long, and then I read one. Now I generally always read what Rex has to say.
Without knowing what is happening behind the scenes, I think it is way too hard to judge the work of a scout. It would seem to me that a scout's most important job is to accurately prognosticate on the future career path of a player. While guys like Chucko and Pelech appear to have hit their ceiling before becoming everyday NHL players, that could be exactly what the scouting staff said was the most likely outcome and Darryl drafted them anyways.
If I was evaluating my team's scouts, I wouldn't just look at the guys we drafted, I would also look at what my scouts were saying about guys drafted by other teams and whether they were right about their career arcs. For example, if my scouts had identified someone like an Adam Henrique as a good bet to become an NHL player, but I didn't have the draft slot to get him, then that is a plus. If my scouts were calling guys good pro prospects and they weren't even panning out on other teams, that would raise a red flag. None of us have that data.
I can't help but notice (in Rexlibris' post/rankings) that the teams who ranked below the flames in draft history include many who made the playoffs this year… including the league leading Vancouver Canucks and the second place Rangers. Another interesting note on the list:Detroit, considered by many to be the measuring stick of good drafting, who landed right in the middle (ranked 15th).
Does this render the list (or metrics) useless?
Pffft. We've got Sven Bartschi, who will be eclipsing R.N.H. in an NHL League near you soon.
SIDE NOTES: My opinin - Keep Iggy but give him a break and give someone else the "C", so he can start playing a role he is, in these latter stages of his career, better suited for.
Anyone else thinking about the probable/fateful rematch between D. Sutter and Torterella? it's '03/'04 deja vu all over again...
@ FN posse
First Name has a valid point. I do need to work on the brevity. Soul of wit and all that.
Kent is also right in that I'd love to be a regular (heck who am I kidding, even occasional) contributor.
I don't actually expect anyone to read what I'm posting. This is the internet, after all. Something about urinating into a Nor'Easter probably sums up what we all say on internet sites and the effect it has on our topic de jour.
Back to the topic at hand, Colin S and Arik I think are on the right track. The draft takes homework and acouting and all the leg work, but it also takes some luck. The more bullets in the chamber the higher the chance of success.
This is why rebuilding teams will often trade off everyone not nailed down for picks as it increases their odds of success.
When the topic of a Flames rebuild came up here though the first thing I said was that they need to improve their amateur scouting department, otherwise all the picks in the world won't help.
Had the Oilers rebuilt and kept Kevin Prendergast at the scouting helm I would probably have become a fan of cricket.
May 15 2012, 12:08PM
That's a good point. We can't know the Flames entire "draft board" each year nor how much their picks were affected by the guy in charge each summer. That's a lot of crucial info missing.
May 15 2012, 12:08PM
That's a good point. We can't know the Flames entire "draft board" each year nor how much their picks were affected by the guy in charge each summer. That's a lot of crucial info missing.
hehehe, Kent did a double post.
Now we have this weisbrod character in charge? Any proof of his background? From what I've seen he's like Feaster not much. Please beg Jim bill to run the team.
@Nolan Moore
Kind of related, but Craig Button has his list out today and this name is in the #14 slot - Mark Jankiowski.
He's Canadian born and plays in Providence so the link to Feaster and Weisbrod's East Coast college preferences are obvious and it should be noted that according to several media reporting the list that Button makes his list based on whom he believes will be selected by each team.
As for Weisbrod:
"John Weisbrod is a retired American professional ice hockey center and currently serves as the Calgary Flames Assistant General Manager/Player Personnel. In addition to his work in the NHL, Weisbrod also served as General Manager and Chief Operating Officer of the Orlando Magic, of the National Basketball Association from 2004-2005."
So I just looked at CSS rankings, and they had Jankowski at 74 for mid term rank and 43 for final rank and now Craig has him in the top 15? That seems really high IMO, I'll wait until some more rankings come out, but if thats the teams target, I see us trading down to get him, low first/high second. Unless there is a sudden frenzy about this kid, I see no reason that he should be taken that high, if we are taking him, why not trade down, acquire more seconds/thirds or whatever and still take him. I like what I see in that kid from just the box car stats + size, plus he's a center.
No where to be found on iss rankings either.
Yeah, that name kind of came out of nowhere for me too. That being said, Button did start boosting players like Teravainen and Reinhart a good two months before other scouting services began to rank them that highly as well.
I'm not saying Button is right here, or that the Flames are going to go off the board and select Jesse Niinimaki, er, I mean, Mark Jankowski, but I thought I'd bring it up in this forum and see what people had to say.
Read this article by Montreal scribe Pat Hickey (of whom I have heard some good things) and tell me what you think http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/prospect+Mark+Jankowski+stock+rises/6480393/story.html be patient, it takes a moment to load the page.
"He reminds me of John LeClair," Button said from the Czech Republic, where he is covering the world under-18 championship for TSN. "I talked to people in the OHL and they liked his skill set, but he was 5-8. Since then, he's gone through a growth spurt where he's gained 6 or 7 inches in 18 months, and I think he's still growing."
John LeClair. I'm not saying..., I'm just saying...
And if the Flames are going to trade back I would target Buffalo. They pick first at #12 and again at #21 from Nashville. They have two second round picks at #42 and #44. If the Flames were to trade back from #14 to #21 and pick up their own second round pick (#44) in the deal while still able to draft "their guy" it would be a good (although remedial) move by Feaster.
Then again, maybe the Flames pick Derrick Pouliot at #14 and keep with the Winterhawks theme that is so popular these days.
I think the sample size here is too small to really determine. The scope is ten years and when you consider that some propsects take three to five years to develop into NHL players (Adam Henrique was drafted in 2008, as an example) then much of the time of that scope is wasted with development before measurable results can be returned.
Consider that Edmonton is regarded as having a well-stocked cupboard of prospects, yet because those players were drafted late in that ten-year window and are still developing their draft record is middling. The early 2000s still haunt the team's draft record (Oh Slava Trukno, how I weep for you!)
In the interim scouting teams change, ownership issues arise and resolve, teams go through traditional cycles of achievement and decline.
Also, notice that the margin separating some of these teams is pretty thin. The difference between the Maple Leafs who are roughly at the 11th spot and the Ducks seven places below is only three percentage points. A rebuild, a windfall year, or a draft boon due to trade as in the Kessel deal, can all greatly affect the statistical outcome.
And yes, I noticed that John Tortorella and Darryl Sutter will meet again ("strike me down Darth Torts and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"). Shame Darryl isn't as good for the microphones as Tortorella.
Again, at 14 I think thats still a real big risk, though something I can see feaster taking, however I like your idea, we could probably trade back from 14 to 21 and pick up easily one if not both of those second round picks.
The ducks traded back from 22 to 30 last year and picked up #39. Year before, kings went from 19 to 15 for the 59th pick. Canadiens also traded up in the 20s and gave up a mid 50s pick as well.
So we would at the least get a 2nd if not more, I'm thinking a 2nd and 3rd and if Feaster really negotiates both 2nds.
Actually, read ProSportsTransactions wrong, the Lightning have the 21st pick and the Sabres have the 23rd pick, the Sabres have 2 2nd rounders and the Lightning have 3, so either one makes a perfect trading partner.
Possible trades: To Lightning: Calgarys 1st(14th) To Calgary: Tampa's 1st (21st) + 2nd (37th)
To Sabres: Calgarys 1st(14th) To Calgary Sabres 1st (23rd) + 2nd (44th) + 7th rounder
Probably want a little more from the sabres, probably future picks
Here's a bit of a different one as well, we could trade down to 21/23 and then trade down again if we think Jankowski is still there at 31 and trade down with Columbus for their 31 + 45.
So if we trade with the lightning/sabres and then trade with the Jackets again, we could snag that kid and pick up two higher second rounders well if thats who we are high on and three second rounds may be just as well as our 15th anyways.
Both of those are entirely feasible, although I think the Buffalo trade is probably closer to a first and a second. Draft spots at the range you are speaking of (the difference between Tampa Bay's extra pick at 21 and Buffalo's at 23 isn't worth enough of a difference.
Here is a link to a chart assigning a numerical value to each draft pick.
While I would certainly agree that each deal has it's own unique details and overpayments or undervaluations regularly occur depending of the perception of assets trading hands, it is a good tool to measure the relative value of draft pick when shuffling them between teams.
The Flames at #14 have a value of 456. The 21st pick has a value of 336 while the 23rd a value of 315. The difference between those two is 120 and 141, respectively. The closest picks with either of those values both fall in either the early or late third round/early fourth round.
By that estimation the Flames pick in trading down with either Buffalo or Tampa Bay ought to be worth a 1st and a 3rd round pick based solely on straight numerical equivalency. If Feaster is good in negotiations and drives a bargain, and either Steve Yzerman or Darcy Regier have placed a very high value on the player available at the #14 spot then they will likely overpay by including one of their extra 2nd round picks, something they may "assign" less value to because of the team's surplus at that spot this June.
That is a lot of "ifs", though and to date Feaster has not shown an ability to negotiate well when placing a high value on draft selections. Even this trade deadline it is likely that he was offered draft picks for some of the Flames expiring UFAs and yet chose not to accept those trades (I am assuming this based on his comments afterwards and the historical market and price for expiring UFAs at the deadline).
Even if the Flames could only acquire a second third round pick this spring, they could arguably trade both of those for a 2nd round selection or keep them and add some more depth to their prospect group. It wouldn't be a bad move entirely.
As for Columbus, I don't see them moving multiple picks in that range for a single pick higher up simply because they are rebuilding and may value quantity over quality at that draft range.
It's all speculation, and Columbus has multiple picks, so for them to use an extra one to get a player they like is in the realm of possibility, plus after all the crap they've dealt with this year, they might be in the market of making a splash to show the fans something at least. It'd be a nice way to for more picks with still getting that guy, which I did read the article and like it, just a little skeptical because he doesn't play against the comp other players do.
And I just say a second cause that seems to be the going rate for trading up in the first(regardless of 'value' assigned), going back to 2004, pretty well every where a team swapped first round picks and drop 4 or more spots at the least a 2nd round pick was included, so if Feaster can't even manage that, he should be fired, if he can't even managed what other useless gms have, then he's even more useless. If Feaster drops 7-9 spots and all he can get is a mid to late third Feaster should be shiped out.
NHLnumbers just put out there top 100, Jankowski is #61, so very early third round. Looks like Button is just really really reaching. Still as a second rounder I think a great sleeper pick.
I had a chat with a fan of Weisbrod's old NBA haunt and he was incensed at his work there.
During the course of the conversation the parallel between Weisbrod's work with the Magic and their subsequent drafting of Dwight Howard to Feaster's work with the Lightning being partly responsible for their being in the position to draft Stamkos.
While Weisbrod would seem to have a history of being a personality strong enough to make hard decisions and move popular players (Tracy McGrady for the Magic) his track record in other areas does not, in and of itself, inspire great confidence.
That being said, any sports personality is only as good as their last job. If he and Feaster take the Flames into the top eight in the West next season and win a couple of playoff rounds he'll look like a genius.
Only time will tell.
Colin S.
So if Jankowski is a 2nd round pick, how much does that Kotalik deal hurt now?
The Flames may be left with the decision of either taking a good prospect like Maatta or Gaunce at #14, or trading down, risking getting a less enviable prospect, in order to recoup a pick that Feaster traded away in order to come out with enough prospects to bolster the Flames depth.
It could be an entertaining first round in this year's draft. It seems that lots of teams have the potential for draft maneuvering.
At 15, I`d advocate trading down anyways and securing as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as possible and hope that Jankowski is still available late second. Yeah we got Baertschi at 13 last year, but who says anyone we take at 15 is even near that level. Looking back all the way to 2004, once you get to the 15 spot or even just about there, there is a good bust(or depth player at best) potential. I`d rather deal down, gain aditional picks and get lucky in a later round than hope our 1 top pick pans out. Outside of the top 5 or so, pretty well everyone`s lists are different, which tells me past the top 5 it`s pretty well hit or miss anyways, no prospects outside that top 5 scream top 3 franchise potential and you may just as well get a top 6 player in the 2nd or 3rd as you may at around 15.
And yeah, getting rid of that second was Terrible. I see the reasoning behind it, but if we didn`t sign Babchuk we would have had enough salary to cover him for the year.
@Colin S
Trading down and recouping some lost picks sounds like a very sensible, responsible thing to do for a team lacking the organizational depth that the Flames do.
The question is, do Feaster, King and Edwards feel that the franchise is in that state?
My inclination is to suspect that, given the past behaviour of this management group, they are looking to draft and market their pick this year with the hopes that whomever is selected can create the same excitement that Baertschi did in '11.
There have been many decisions made by this group the last little while that seem to be based more on marketability and finances than on sound team management.
Still, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they did move down.
On another note, the Flames have Gaudreau, Reinhart, Ferland, Baertschi, Granlund and Arnold. All young forwards that I'm sure many Flames fans would love to throw in the faces of Oiler and Canuck fans. And then the NHL cancels the YoungStars tournament because of a potential work stoppage. Seems like a kick in the bits for a Flames fan.
They caught Lightning in a bottle with Baertschi, they may not happen this year especially even later in the draft. If they do one of those re-draft specials on SN or TSN or whatever in a few years, it could be that he should be drafted in the top 5. However expecting that to happen twice in a row is a little foolish.
As for excitement for the Baertschi pick, I actually heard a lot of negative things when he was drafted, the usual 'European' thing was thrown around for a bunch, can't play defense, not 'big' enough, it wasn't until Baertschi really started to just hammer out the year people started to change their minds and ofcourse after his stint with the flames they all changed their tune and now he's the next Iggy.
The thing is they have a pretty well fleshed out top 6 and it's not changing to drastically in the next couple years, and using that first pick to acquire multiple seconds for guys that may be ready in 2-3 years is absolutely something the Flames should look at.


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1.2 million soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines will go through at least initial phases of the new transition effort in the next four years.
The Pentagon is launching an effort to prepare servicemembers for life after the military even as they begin training and serving as combat troops.
The hope is to reduce the joblessness that has stubbornly plagued veterans who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Last month, 10% of these veterans, or more than 200,000 former servicemembers, were without work, . The overall U.S. jobless rate is 7.9%. The veteran problem is even worse among those ages 24 and younger. One in four are jobless, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics.
With the Iraq war over, the Afghanistan conflict winding down and a downsizing of the military underway, 1.2 million soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines will go through at least initial phases of the new transition effort in the next four years.
"This is a cultural change for the Department of Defense," says Susan Kelly, deputy director of the Pentagon office handling the program, "We are saying not only do military members need to be military-ready, mission-ready, but we're also asking for the first time for them to meet (civilian) career readiness standards before they separate."
The initiative was the result of legislation passed by Congress last year and presidential task force recommendations.
"It goes to the heart of taking care of the people that fight for us," Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Thursday of the program.
Key elements of the transition assistance program (TAP) -- which will cost the Pentagon $1.2 billion over the next five years -- include:
-- A requirement that servicemembers, in some cases soon after basic training, begin thinking about and selecting a pathway for when they leave the military, whether it be higher education, vocational training, employment or entrepreneurship.
-- A mandatory 5- to 7-day course held months before troops exit the service, where they learn about Department of Veterans Affairs benefits and skills for interviewing, resume preparation and job searches.
-- Additional two-day, voluntary courses to select the right university, accredited vocational training or job.
-- A requirement that before leaving the service, troops will have to show they've prepared for civilian life, either by registering for college, preparing a resume with approved references, applying for or accepting a job or preparing a budget to meet expenses. Commanders must hold them accountable for this.
-- For those interested in starting their own business, there is an eight-week online course provided by the Small Business Administration, followed by assignment to a mentor who can help guide the veteran in getting established.
An initial phase of the new effort -- the five-day mandatory jobs course -- was implemented across the military on Nov. 21. Other aspects will go into effect over the next two years, Kelly says.
"It really is about selling yourself," Sgt. Maj. L. L. Brown tells a room full of Marines and a few spouses crammed into a chapel annex classroom Monday morning at the Marine Corps Base Quantico, south of the nation's capital.
On this first day of the five-day mandatory course, Sgt. Corey Raynor sits listening from the back of the room, still uncertain about which pathway to choose. His left arm is adorned with an R.I.P. (for rest in peace) tattoo in remembrance of two comrades killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, where Raynor served as a mortar-man.
During a break, Raynor, 27, uses words like "exciting" and "unknown" to describe a civilian future six months away. "I haven't done it for a while," says the married Marine and father of a 21-month-old daughter.
A North Carolina native, Raynor's initial plans are to return to Afghanistan as a contractor and he's OK with that for now. It may be tough otherwise to sell his acquired combat abilities to an employer, Raynor says.
"That's what I fear for many of my buddies that are infantry," Raynor says. "Everybody wants ... somebody with a skill (that's) not just how to shoot a guy."
Architects of the new transition program say that's a concern they are addressing. Troops will learn during the five-day course how special skills acquired in wartime can be marketed.
"There are intangibles that kind of rise above the noise level," says Brig. Gen. Robert Hedelund, leading the Marine Corps effort. "The coming to work on time, the discipline taken to a task, the adaptability, flexibility, leadership skills. All those things matter."
For the past few decades, the military has offered courses on VA benefits and job application training. But except for the Marine Corps, which required attendance, the classes were voluntary for the Army, Air Force and Navy.
The result was that more than half simply declined to attend, according Pentagon data. Now they will be required to go to the classes.
In addition, the training relied on lectures sometimes difficult to absorb. "For years we've been providing a VA briefing that was a series of PowerPoint slides that just kind of went in pretty dry detail, I'll admit," says Danny Pummill, a VA official.
Parisa Featherson, a Quantico instructor for 17 years, called it "death by power point."
One result was that more than half of servicemembers simply chose not to take the courses in recent years, according to VA data.
Officials hope the new TAP classes won't be so boring. "Basically, it's more like a college class where you break people into smaller groups and there's give-and-take and you help them understand their problems and solve some of their problems," Pummill says.
Critics in government and the private sector say the program could be stronger. The additional, two-day courses offered could be made mandatory -- the Marine Corps has already taken this step.
About half of exiting servicemembers decide to use their G.I. Bill educational benefits, a value of more than $125,000, says Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee.
By not requiring them to take additional courses on how to spend that money wisely, "we are failing to help them to meet their post-military goals, making their transition to civilian life more difficult," Miller says.
And the Pentagon must do a better job of linking servicemembers to employers, many say. "The private sector needs access to servicemembers earlier," says retired Marine lieutenant colonel Kevin Schmiegel, executive director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Hiring our Heroes program, which provides online resources to veterans seeking work.
The Pentagon's transition assistance initiative will also target National Guard or reservists as troops come off active duty, an area of particularly strong need, Army California National Guard Maj. Ty Shepard says.
More than half of 123 California National Guard troops returning from Afghanistan this month are currently without civilian jobs, Shepard says.
Proponents of the plan view it as having the potential to benefit society in ways similar to how the G.I. bill improved the lives of post-World War II veteran.
"If we do this right," Pummill says, "this is our opportunity to once again transform America."


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The Use and Interpretation of Tax Treaties in the Emerging World: Theory and Implications
Eduardo A. Baistrocchi
London School of Economics - Law Department
September 24, 2008
British Tax Review, No. 4, 2008
Certain parts of the international tax system are largely unexplored from a structural perspective. One prominent example is the asymmetric tax treaty network, i.e. the network that consists of bilateral tax treaties concluded between developed and emerging countries on the basis of the OECD Model Tax Convention on Income and on Capital (OECD model). The relative size of this network is substantial. For instance, the United Kingdom's asymmetric tax treaty network represents about 72 per cent of its entire tax treaty network.
This article offers a structural analysis of the asymmetric tax treaty network. It answers two fundamental questions. First, it elaborates a theory for explaining why a representative emerging country is willing to conclude tax treaties with developed countries on the basis of the OECD model. Secondly, this article extends that theory to understanding the dynamics of tax treaty interpretation in the emerging world. This extension aims to illuminate the structure of incentives the courts of a representative emerging country normally have when construing OECD-based tax treaties in the foreign direct investment (FDI) area. Game theory is used as a theoretical framework for answering both questions.
Number of Pages in PDF File: 41
Keywords: International Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Treaty Abuse, Tax Treaty Interpretation, Assymetric Tax Treaty Network
Date posted: September 26, 2008
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D&M Custom Baits Piranha Swim Jig
Take a bite out of the competition with the D&M Custom Baits Piranha Swim Jig. Made with the professional angler in mind, the D&M Custom Baits Piranha Swim Jig features a sticky sharp 5/0 Gamakatsu hook, custom painted heads, 3D eyes, and an open line tie that allows you to easily attach your favorite chatter blade. These exquisite color schemes are extremely effective, and were made at the request of anglers from all over the Country. No other swim jig can match the perfectly paired colors and the performance of the D&M Custom Baits Piranha Swim Jig.
13 Colors
More From D&M Jigs
Customer Reviews
Comments: Great colors and they work well. I do have one issue, I have a couple of them that don't start vibrating right away when they hit the water. I can feel they aren't working and I have to jerk them to get the blade to start vibrating. I don't have this happen with Z-Man baits- when they hit the water and I start reeling they are vibrating. I need to see what is happening with the baits. It doesn't happen with all of my D&M swim jigs. Overall, I really like the quality and colors.
From: Rob: Dallas, TX 9/2/14
Comments: this is by far the best chatter bait on market. It blows away Zman baits. It cost more but you get what you pay for. They hold up well and have excellent hook. Don't waste your money with others. Black /blue is the ticket buy several to have back up when you get bit off from a big pickerel. I talk from experience.
From: Bruce: Sparta, NJ 8/21/14
Comments: They last longer that the Zman chatterbaits, but I have honestly caught more fish on the Zman product. I get a feeling smaller fish tend to shrink away from them, and when it comes to tournaments you want every fish you can get. Anyways still a good lure that catches the 4+ pounders, and you might as well get a few before they stop making them.
From: Ben: Newport News, VA 7/30/14
Comments: They use the same blade all of the mom and pop manufacturers use. Far better than Z-man but then again so is every other chatterbait out there. Zman may own the patent but they certainly don't care at all about quality.
From: Jay: Reed County 6/25/14
Comments: Get em' while you can.. they are getting discontinued. Pretty sure because of Z man and their patent. Just stocked up. These are the best bladed swim jigs on the market... The last stickup shouldn't last long.
From: Logan: LA 6/17/14
Comments: I've won a lot of money throwing these piranhas. They are the best on the market right now. They have a different vibration then the competitor which big bass like
From: Vu: Tucson, AZ 6/2/14
Comments: This is absolutely one of the best quality bladed swim jigs you will find anywhere at any price. Holds up very well and the action is second to none. You can expect more from D&M and you will get it.
From: Phatbass: FL 5/26/14
Comments: The BEST bladed swim jig there is!! Went out early on a cold morning, nothing was working, throw this out there in delta craw color... BAM! caught 19 bass the whole day and none were under 3.2 lbs., the biggest was 5.4. Also caught 3 snakehead including my biggest ever, 13.4 lbs. The build quality on these baits is second to none. Usually after one snakehead my bait would be destroyed, but it lasted through three!! and is still going! THE BEST EVER MADE
From: Andrew: Potomac River, VA 4/22/14
Comments: Absolutely the best bladed jig, build quality is high end and most important part of any jig is the hook and this one has an awesome gamakatsu 5/0.. delta craw in early spring.. sexy shad till early summer ..blue gill thru fall then back to sexy shad.. if you don't get bit throw a cal reservoir swim jig.. johnny CD's jig are second to none
From: Joey: Chickamauga, TN 4/8/14
Comments: Didn't like these. Painted chipped off the blade right away. Contacted the company and they want me to spend more money to send them back.
From: Andrew: Jacksonville, AR 3/11/14
Comments: I really wish these guys would expand their selection of products. The quality of this bait is second to none.
From: Unknown: USA 3/2/14
Comments: Probably the best bladed jig I've ever thrown. The biggest key is the quality of the components and the fact that the blade ticks the head on the retrieve. I ordered ten of the Delta Craw color and pair it with a pumpkin spice Baby Paca Craw and I kill the fish in the spring on it. Perfect for throwing in the grass that's to shallow for a trap and too thick for a spinnerbait.
From: James: Bossier City, LA 3/1/14
Comments: Ordered the bluegill one and received the correct skirt but a pure black head called and was not helped so I emailed Dale at d&m and he's making it right and also sending extra baits! Now that's customer service. I'm a customer for d&m for life!
From: Chris: San Diego
Comments: I have only caught one fish with this bait but it was a 5 pounder. I was fishing a damiki spinnerbait in a current seam and was catching a bass in the 1-2 pound range on every cast but I got the spinnerbug hung in a low branch and didn't want to blow the spot up before the bite died so I just grab the next moving bait(prianha jig) that was on the deck and made a cast to the same spot and got a bone jarring stike which after a 2-3 minute battle my 5 pounder was in the boat. Good bait but I think the grub it comes with kinda kills the action I went with a super fluke on the blue gill color bait.
From: Debeaux: Waccamaw River, SC.
Comments: these things are great in tember and cover they do not have the vibe as a Booyah Boogee Bait but are fish catching baits. These are a must have for every fisherman, these are great baits ,looks ,hardware and actions .
From: Kevin: KY
Comments: I first used these jigs recently and they are of excellent quality. I caught bass with them when used for the first time and am very impressed. I was reluctant to spend the extra dollars but well worth it. After using 1 all day I noticed an eye was missing from the jig head so I emailed D&M about the problem. Dale promptly replied to my concern, explaining the process on how they were made, and how to prevent the issue in the future. He also shipped me out replacement jigs and threw in extras of their most popular colors. How's that for customer service. D&M obviously is a well run business that stands by their products. After this experience I will be trying/buying more of their products. Thanks again Dale
From: Danny: Vienna, VA
Comments: Nice bait, but I lost one of the eyes after the first catch.
From: JT: MN
Comments: The quality of these baits are second to none. I own all the the others as well. I have not developed a great confidence in chatterbaits yet so I really wont speak to this baits fish catching ability over the others. But as far as attention to detail, quality of components and hardware, this bait is worth every penny.
From: Nate: WA
Comments: I just can't say enough about this chatter bait! First of all D&M is a premiere custom bait and tackle provider on the west coast and Dale and Mark the owners from D&M know how to produce a great bait!!! This chatter bait is easily the best on the market it's better than the revenge, z man, molix, pure poison, etc you can slow roll them on the bottom or burn them across the grass it just doesn't matter they swim TRUE every cast with no tweaking out of the package! These baits are all handmade and the custom paint jobs are sick! you have to see the bluegill pattern in person to really respect it! I don't leave the house to go fishing anymore without Bluegill/Bama Bug tied on. D&M makes great baits be sure to check out there new weedless buzz bait called the "buzz saw" it too is an amazing bait! Tight lines
From: CJ: PA
Comments: Bluegill and Bama Bug. I will never leave the house without them. Bought them from Tacklewarehouse and took them out of the package went to local lake and immediatley caught fish with both colors. The action, color, and vibration makes this a better option compared to the original chatterbait.
From: David: Maryland, USA
Comments: I figured some of the reviews were fish stories but this lured produced 5 lb largemouth on second trip. Bluegill color is tops
From: Poda: So IL
Comments: The bluegill color constantly catches fish for me and the paint job cant be beat.
From: Sam: USA
Comments: Has all other bladed swim jigs beat hands down! hope TW stocks all their colors soon!!!!!
From: Doug: Huntsville,Tx....U.S.A.
Comments: These are the best Vibe Jigs you can buy. Pure Poison are pretty good too but these have that extra touch of quality, toughness and detail that cannot be found anywhere else. I would like to see solid green pumpkin with black blade.
From: Nate: Washington State
Comments: After almost giving up on finding a vibrating jig that I liked, I read the reviews on this D&M Piranha Swim Jig and decided I should buy a couple. I went with the Black/Blue Flash and Bluegill colors in 3/8 oz. When I received the baits, I was first off very impressed with the quality of the bait, especially the hook. That thing is sharp! Fished a tournament the weekend after I received the baits. I didn't really plan on using them, but threw them in just in case. The last spot of the day was a stump filled flat. I tied on the black and blue bait and fished it aggressively through the stumps. Came through cover great, and allowed me to cull up and finish second in the tournament. Can't wait to use these some more!
From: Ben: KS
Comments: this is a chatterbait on steroids. Blows the competition out of the water.
From: Jake: NJ
Comments: Hands down the best bladed swim jig on the market. I dont know what else to say other than they flat out catch fish. The only bladed swim jig I will be throwing from now on
From: Bryson: WV
Comments: D&M never disappoints. Great quality chatter bait that will catch fish all year. D&M all day.
From: Ricky: IL
Comments: This is my favorite lure. on my second cast I caught a one pound bass and then the next cast I caught another one pound bass. after that I was getting a crazy amount of bites and I catch a five pounder right next to the shore! But I snagged this lure after about one more little bass.
From: Luke: NC
Comments: The bluegill color paint job is sweeeeet. So much better than Z-man
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text:
And they called Mike Gillis a fool
Ryan Lambert
July 08 2009 02:27PM
Oh yes, the cap hit the Philadelphia Flyers incurred for Chris Pronger on that seven-year deal seemed big, especially because he's 34 years old already. But what the hell, right? If he retired at any point in the final three or four years, it would cost them next to nothing, right?
Well, the NHL doesn't think so, and the fallout is a cautionary tale all NHL teams should really keep an eye on.
A clue that Paul Holmgren should have known this Pronger contract might be a problem presented itself fairly quickly; the mutants over at HFBoards, within five minutes of the contract being announced, were already asking if this was going to count against the so-called "Over 35" rule.
For those unfamiliar, the current CBA has a rule stating that any contract that goes into effect after a player's 35th birthday will have the full salary count against the cap for the entirety of the contract, regardless of whether or not he retires. This is meant as a deterrent to teams that would sign a useful 35-year-old player (say, Scott Niedermayer) to a long-term, heavily front-loaded deal that would drop the total cap hit off a reasonably-sized cliff upon that player's retirement.
And that's exactly what Pronger's deal was because, as Bill Daly points out via Elliotte Friedman's Twitter, it kicks in when the new League Year starts on June 30, 2010, and Pronger will have already been 35 for close to nine months by that point. Except now the Flyers "disagree and interpret the rule differently" which is, of course, hilarious.
The last thing anyone wants is their team holding the bag for some guy they signed to an absurd contract because they thought (incorrectly) that they could skate past something that says this:
All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case on the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Actual Club Salary.
I don't know how Philly thinks it can interpret something that explicit "differently" but okay. What this really means is that every team in the league, like the Canucks and, I'm sure, a few others, should be scampering to hire a "capologist."
How does this relate to the Flames? Well, the only three contracts currently on file at the Saddledome that will end after a player is 35 are those belonging to Jarome Iginla, Daymond Langkow and Miikka Kiprusoff. But the most interesting case is that of Iginla, whose birthday is July 1. That means his contract, which expires June 30, 2013 will last until he is 35 and 364 days old. But if, like Pronger, he signs an extension prior to that final year starting, the Flames have to be awful careful about that cap hit, especially if he signs it prior to free agency officially starting on his birthday.
Of course, I could be completely wrong about this. I'm not a capologist.
Did you just put Cash Money Millionaires in a title!?!?!
*runs away*
Fortunately the Oilers have their own capologist in Rick Olczyk. He's brilliant.
Another way of looking at it is that maybe teams should stop hiring ex-players to key management roles and instead hire guys with law degrees, a la Scott Howson.
I can't wait until someone gripes about how this article
A. Has nothing to do with the Oilers and/or B. Has nothing to do with Dany Heatly.
This Pronger deal already looked ridiculous even before they signed him to a mammoth extension. Perhaps the league should have some kind of 2 day course where they take all the GM's and their cronies, sit them in a room, and go through the CBA with a fine tooth comb just so everyone knows exactly how the whole thing works.
Is this the same Rick Olczyk that educated Gregor incorrectly and had JG yelling and screaming at commentors who dared challenge his might?
Any Heatly news?
jeanshorts wrote:
I can't wait until someone gripes about how this article A. Has nothing to do with the Oilers and/or B. Has nothing to do with Dany Heatly.
I think any and all Oiler fans can have a hearty laugh at a Pronger contract screwing over another team that doesn't rhyme with "Zedmonton Zoilers" for once.
@ Ogden Brother:
Bahahahaha, smart a$s!
If Pronger can learn to play goalie, this is a good signing for the Flyers...
Did i just read an entire pronger article without the acronym CFP or the nickname "Human Rake" used? TLP, you need to brush up on your Pronger lingo.
Can someone PhotoShop at least a mustache or something on CFP's face? How can this picture be OK on an Oilers blog.
Also, his name should never be mentioned here.
Alternatives include
CFP The Human Rake HeWhoShallNotBeNamed The Crib Burner Hard on Reporters
MattN wrote:
Hard on Reporters
Please don't lend any more credibility to HF boards. The next thing you know, we'll have a "cutest Jonas brother" poll over here and lots of gags#1gurl usernames.
@ DK0: @ jeanshorts:
Give TLP a break. He is from Boston and isn't privy to all of the Pronger sass talk we throw around.
@ David S:
Why would there need to be a poll like that when everyone knows the Cutest is Joe.
*pulls out Jonas Brothers underwear, takes a quick peek and retucks shirt*
July 08 2009, 05:05PM
All Player Salary and Bonuses earned
has to be the line that Philly's arguing - if he isn't playing, he isn't earning.
An argument for that is made here. I don't think Philly will get away with it, but as far as I can tell that's the only logical argument - and the only bit subject to interpretation.
July 08 2009, 05:08PM
And as we all know, any article referencing the Apostate making money needs to read:
"... and so Judas signed with the Philadelphia Pharisees for an annual cap hit of 30 silver pieces, which will continue to count against Philadelphia's salary cap even if he hangs himself in shame because Judas was over 35 at the time of the deal."
@ MattN:
I believe you mean FCP. He ceased to be known as CFP the day he asked to be traded out of Edmonton.
Anyway, I had no idea (ie. "didn't bother to check") that he would be 35 when his new contract comes into effect. That's hillarious.
Wanye Gretz wrote:
*pulls out Jonas Brothers underwear, takes a quick peek and retucks shirt*
I think you mean Under Roos.
Sorry to bring this up but t looks like Eklund is now getting his news from ON...... oilers interest in Zherdev (e3)
what a joke
Jonas Bother Underroos ?!? *thows away tattered Hanson Brothers' underroos, heads straight for store"
@ Jonathan Willis: I thought maybe the part they were arguing was that the extension was "signed" before he was 35. Just takes effect after. TLP wrote:
All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older
But thats just me on first glance and no legal knowledge
I don't think Philly will get away with it, but as far as I can tell that's the only logical argument - and the only bit subject to interpretation.
Why don't you think that Philly will get away with it?
I agree with DKO. I have a bit of a legal background and that word "signed" is the first thing that jumped out at me as well. A good lawyer could argue that point. Unless there is some sort of precedent where "signed" indicates the date the contract goes into effect rather than the actual date of it being tendered/signed.
July 08 2009, 06:32PM
@ Tyler:
Established precedent. I mean, I'm not a lawyer so my opinion is worth slightly less than zero, but it seems to me that Vladimir Malakhov's cap hit sets the precedent that hte league will follow.
two things i hope for, philly plays boston alot and chara kicks pronger's ass every time.
Ken Campbell at THN offers this:
On the one hand it says the contract has to be signed when the player is 35 and then goes on to stipulate that it comes into effect the year in which the SPC is to be effective, hence the possibility for confusion.
But the spirit of the provision is that it governs contracts that kick in when a player turns 35, not when it is signed.
"The league has sent out memo after memo after memo alerting teams about this," said one former NHL executive. "If this is what they're doing, they're trying to drive a 747 through a loophole."
The league has yet to hear from the Flyers about this and considers it to be unambiguous. And given that Holmgren has said the Flyers are willing to live with the negative ramifications of signing Pronger to a seven-year deal, it might not be an issue.
Then that just makes it a really bad contract.
...so basically the Flyers are going to accept the cap hit.
i think GMs around the league need a couple weekend retreats with the CBA.
Tallon screwing up his RFA's, Tambellini (and maybe Murray) not understanding the date of the Heatley $4 million and now this thing with Pronger..
bengood wrote:
i think GMs around the league need a couple weekend retreats with the CBA. Tallon screwing up his RFA's, Tambellini (and maybe Murray) not understanding the date of the Heatley $4 million and now this thing with Pronger..
lol. You have a point.
I hate Boston (Go Lakers, Go Colts) and Calgary (duh) so this guy is a fusion of my worst enemies.
Where did the term "human rake" come from again?
July 08 2009, 07:20PM
There is a free course on the CBA? I'll have Joey Moss there in an hour if its true! He is our expert.
is there a Capologist Crime Lab at NHL HQ? There's 30 teams you would need a shwack of Cappy's or a bang ass computer system to track and persecute offenders. There's been some major screwups this year and I wonder if any Team will get taken to task. That would be the true tell of any Capo at NHL HQ.
The part here that should really scare the Flyers is should they be stuck with his contract and the cap hit after this dispute, they know Pronger has a track record of thinking of himself and not an organization he plays for.
He won't event think twice about retiring as soon as the front loaded part of his contract pays out, even if it hand ties the Flyers.
This is where they should be kicking themselves.
as i read this i thought to myself:
no calgaryian is this literate... what is going on here? then i saw the blurb at the bottom about how mr. toilet paper (or whatever it is) is from boston and it all made sense.
DK0 wrote:
@ Jonathan Willis: I thought maybe the part they were arguing was that the extension was "signed" before he was 35. Just takes effect after. TLP wrote: All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older But thats just me on first glance and no legal knowledge
Agreed 100% That was my initial reaction upon reading the article.
July 08 2009, 08:20PM
Not that I want to give the Flames fans any good news, but ther will not be an issue with Iginla. The CBA states 35 or older which means he will be 364 days OLDER than 35, thus falling into the catagory of his cap not hitting the books if he retires during his next contract. They just need to wait until after July 1st 2012 to sign him to an extension.
By that time the Sutter brothers will be so senile from being kicked in the head too many times by thier cattle they may make that mistake anyway!!
Love the gratuitous swipe at HFBoards calling them mutants in the same sentence where you point out that they noticed the mistake before anybody else picked up on it.
Still touchy around here about Speeds embarrassing Gregor or what.
You would think somebody would play editor for columnists too ignorant to control themselves.
@ Mowgli: Mowgli wrote:
Where did the term "human rake" come from again?
dude, look at the guy's front teeth - he could rake up all of freakin' Saskatchewan with that grill!
July 08 2009, 10:59PM
Sooo...MondayGuy was telling me that he "swears" that he heard on Sportsnet that Mrs. Pronger had to sign the contract agreement with Philly as well.
Anyone else hear this? He swears up and down he heard it. Was it a quip by a witty Sportsnet guy?...or was it REAL?
FYI: If any of you follow @MondayGuy on twitter, you will know he spends most of his "awake" time in a drunken stupor.
theoil wrote:
You would think somebody would play editor for columnists too ignorant to control themselves.
Really? If you don't like the product here, there are a lot of other sites to go to. The bloggers on this site are head and shoulders above anything else out there as far as Oilers news goes.
Go troll somewhere else.
ScubaSteve wrote:
Go troll somewhere else.
HF boards maybe? He'd have alot of company.
a self-confessed flames fan posting here? No comprendo.
@ Doug:
Article was cross-posted accross all 3 sites.
July 09 2009, 09:08AM
I heard that part about Mrs. Rake signing the NMC too and I remember it because I couldn't figure out why she would be signing that sheet. An agreement to stay in philly maybe, but a no movement clause? Didn't understand so it caught my attention.
On the oilers site I saw an interview with tambo and he didn't seem so convinced that the cap was going to drop significantly next year. I wonder if the media has built that frenzy. Maybe philly can deal with both this and briere's contract then keep Carter and Richards for their 1 2 punch. Pretty major imo for a team with the worst record in hockey two(?) years back. Hope tambo doesn't try to replicate it here though, I like the horses we got.
I think Philly will find a way around this. They had similar problems with Hatcher, Rathje, and Gauthier contracts that they either "assigned" them to the minors or just put them on the long term injured reserve for the last 2 years of their contracts. I don't think either of those guys were hurt that badly, they just didn't want to play anymore. I'm sure Pronger has already agreed to do the same if need be.
Doug wrote:
I hate Boston (Go Lakers, Go Colts) and Calgary (duh) so this guy is a fusion of my worst enemies.
i will actually punch you square in the gut. just you watch.
Was Mensa passing out 'genius' pills to GMs at their meetings in Montreal this year?
Bob Gainey - "A $7.3M cap hit is good value for Gomez" Dale Tallon - "The organization will be very happy with the $1.75 I'm going to save them by using USPS instead of Fedex" Steve Tambellini - "July 1st must mean the evening prior"
And now Paul Holmgren and the Pronger contract???
Alon wrote:
#43 Alon July 9 2009, 8:56 am. @ Doug: Article was cross-posted accross all 3 sites.
Just practicing replies to quotes, etc... Please ignore my attempts to highlight, quote, etc.......


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The Incline Squat
by BendtheBar 02-22-2013, 08:52 PM
Have you ever squatted until your back gives out, but you felt that your legs still had something left in them? Or you might just want to do a little extra because you know that as soon as you get home your wife will put you to work around the house.
I've had both of these problems, so I decided to incorporate some special assistance exercises to extend the length of my leg routine in order to boost my squat poundage.
In general, my preference lies in the area of high rep movements. Along with the high reps, I like to be handling a graduated amount of weight as my strength and conditioning increases. The following assistance movements for the legs are ones I've used previously and ones that I encountered specific problems with.
One legged squats worked my frontal thighs tremendously. If you stay with the one legged squat you can work into high reps in no time. However, adding more resistance is very awkward because of balance problems.
Later I tried front squats, which seemed to be the answer for a while. Then I found that I had difficulty in breathing when I performed many reps in training.
Hack squats, a bodybuilding type movement, also worked my thighs very well for a while. But once again the problem of adding weight cropped up as it made the movement awkward and a strain on the ligaments of the knees developed.
Noticing that Olympic lifters usually squatted with elevated heels, I realized that their backs were much straighter than a powerlifter's back generally is. The raised heels and straight back employed by Olympic lifters was obviously placing a greater strain on the legs. I also determined that the muscular development of the Olympic lifter around the knee area was more prominent than that of the powerlifter. The reason being most powerlifters neglect this region of the thigh in their workouts. The powerlifter usually has better developed hips and upper thighs, because the most emphasis is placed on them in a powerlifter's routines.
The powerlifter, to be able to squat maximum weights, has to place the bar lower on the back and lean forward slightly, while the Olympic lifter does the type of squats with the bar high on the back and maintaining a straight back, enabling him to develop the strength needed to rise from a low squat clean position. These two slight variations will, as I mentioned before, produce thigh development and leg power in direct opposition to each other.
The point I'm trying to make is that each group of lifters should devote a little extra time to work the area in which they have a definite weakness. The Olympic man could include some power squats in his routine, and the powerlifter could work on the Olympic style squat for that "added something" that they both could use.
Being a powerlifter who wished to increase my overall leg strength, as well as the physical development around the knee area, I began to experiment with an Olympic type of "heels on board" way of squatting. First, I tried a two-by-four that had been lying around the gym collecting dust. This is what the Olympic lifters generally had used in their squat programs. However, after a few workouts I felt I needed added board height to more effectively work my knee area. Next I tried a four-by-four, but immediately ran into trouble with the extreme angle the board placed my feet in. It just put too much pressure on the arches of my feet. So I decided to saw the board in half diagonally, with not just comfort in mind, but placing maximum resistance on the lower muscles of the thigh. It worked great and I began to notice improved development around my knee area, plus I was adding weight to the bar every leg workout without strain or pain.
Occasionally, during a leg workout, as I stepped back to do my squats on the four-by-four, I would accidentally kick it over backwards. Rather than messing around with the sometimes clumsy piece of wood, I devised a small incline board out of plywood with a larger base to stand on (see photos). This was perfect for me and by type of leg workouts, so I dubbed the new exercise "The Incline Squat."
The incline squat is a great change of pace exercise, as well as a tremendous lower-thigh size and strength developer. If you want to incorporate it into your powerlifting routine, let me first explain how to properly perform the exercise.
As you adjust yourself, under a light weight at first, be sure to place the bar high on the traps of the upper back. Step back onto the incline board, placing the feet close together (approximately 10-12 inches apart). Controlling the weight, with an upright posture of the back, descend slowly and go down as far as you are able to. This will really stretch the muscles, ligaments and tendons around the knee area, so be sure to use a light weight at first, don't bounce out of the bottom, and work into the heavier poundages gradually.
With the elevation of the heels, you will notice a difficulty in completely straightening the legs and locking the knee joint. This is quite natural, and you shouldn't worry about losing your balance during your first attempts at squatting on the incline board. As a matter of fact, I've found that the inability to straighten out the legs completely while incline squatting is a definite plus, rather than a minus. If forces you keep your balance with knees bent, which means that while you are fighting to stay on the board, the knee area of the lifter is waging its own battle against the everpresent resistance of the barbell. This extra "battle" might not seem like much, but you'll be surprised at the muscular development and strength that you will derive from this fight to keep your balance with the knees bent.
It can also be beneficial to your incline squat progress if you have a spotter stand behind you and slightly pull you back with his hands, as you come out of the bottom position. This method of spotting will allow you to maintain an erect stature, forcing the thigh muscles to do the majority of the work, instead of the back muscles carrying the load.
The number of incline squat repetitions that you do can vary, but I prefer 8-12 reps, followed directly by as many reps as I can muster after stepping off the incline board.
8-12 hard reps on the incline board, step forward off the board and gut out as many reps as you can.
Usually I can tell when to step off the board because I start to lean forward too much while performing the incline movement. The stance used for the last (off the board) sequence of squats can either be wide or regular. Just try to select a stance that will allow you to go down as far as possible, and as I mentioned earlier, do a lot of repetitions. This should thoroughly work the quadriceps, in large part the vastus internus muscle located just above the knee joint. That's what the incline squat is all about, and remember, you don't have to use an overly massive weight to do this.
A fellow powerlifter once told me after having done the incline squat for the first time, with 155 lbs.) that didn't realize 155 could be so heavy! And at the time of that statement this man was capable of well over a 500 lb. squat. I might also add that this lifter, after working on the incline squat for a time, increased his leg measurement just above the knee quite considerably.
You don't necessarily need spotters to do this movement. Just select a weight that will produce the desired effect, one that you can 'good morning' out front, or dump behind off your back, if you do happen to get stuck in the bottom or lose your balance.
Destroy That Which Destroys You
"Let bravery be thy choice, but not bravado."
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7
Reputation: 260
This is the first forum i have ever joined in my life, and i am very honord to have done so. I really love getting bigger and stronger, problem is i am very confused and i change my goals very often which impacts my gains. I want to be super strong ( i am advanced for my age according to numerous sources), i am 185lb and bf from 8-10.. I just want to be like greg plitt for exmaple, perfect size and strong ( my opinion) but i dont know how to go about doing so.. do i keep lifting heavy for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or go for myofibrillar hypertrophy... on top of all that, i have large legs, calves, abs are visble and strogn, back is formed BUT my tricep and chest are terrible... my trice is probly 1/3 of my arm (when its suppose to be 2/3) and my chest never looked tonned, never got the curl from bottom, with nice dense look. ( even though i lift heavy and proper form on it, and lowered body fat % to 7.2% at 177 lb... i am doing the Strength and density program now. and i love it,, i feel amazing pain, and i feel strong. i worked trice on one of my rest days hoping it helps... any opinions, advice that could just set my mind to one goal at a time at least.
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Max Brawn
Join Date: May 2012
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Fav Supp: protein powder
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what is your age,height, how long have you been training, what are numbers on the squat,deadlift,benchpress.
Junior Member
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I am 19 years old. My 1RM for deadlift is 405 ( Mac I tried), my squats I do 315lb for 6 ( I am not sure of my 1rm) my bench, 225 for 3 reps. And I am 5'11". And to be honest I used to workout out when I was 15-16 1/2 but I didn't go to the gym from 16 to 18, got back to pure cardio June 2012- August(1 month) and started lifting weights from August - November(3months)... Took gym off due to personal reasons,, got back last week( took 3 months off)( during the 3 month I probly went to the gym 10 times to work out. I have good genetic, I dnt gain fat fast. Mesomorph body type.
Thank you for the reply btw, really appreciate that your actually taken your time to read it.
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Max Brawn
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more members would see and reply to it if you posted it in the right place, like the muscle building / bodybuilding forum.
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As I've said elsewhere, I've always preferred to do my Squatting with a pair of Army Leg Boots or Work Boots with a modest Heel.
(That probably gives me an Inch of Heel Raise.)
I've always used a Modest Foot Width, rode the Bar Relatively High and Squatted to Full Depth.
Some folks Squatting with Extra Wide Stance, Low Bar Position and Pronounced Forward Lean, and going Just to ParallelBarely, look like Frogs when they Perform Squats.
Saxon Violence
Junior Member
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SO im doing Steve's " Density and strength" workout on the muscle and nutrition site.
i observed the following:
- I am getting stronger every single day
- muscle getting denser
- adding a little more fat
- IMPORTANT: i finish the work out, but i feel like i can do so much more exercises, hit triceps more.. I FOLLOW THE PROGRAM very well, when it says 2 to 3 back workouts, i do that! i always reach 30 total reps for 7 sets, start at 8 first set and end at 2!
its been 5 weeks, im going to continue for 4 more months... any advice on how i should eat? increase calories, etc.
I wanna grow bigger, have bigger arms ( program doesnt focus a lot on arms)
i wanna be lean and strong.
age 19
5' 11"
chest 42" ... its nice when i just leave gym and cold, but not on other days ( not dense looking)
arm 15 1/2 "
deadlift - 405 lb for 2 reps
bench 235 lb for 3 reps
squat 315 for 6
.. bf % 8-10
should i workout my abs and side oblique ( love handles) I REALLY REALY want them to be straight.
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Max Brawn
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