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It is true. I am an Arbonne consultant. (Actually, that may be past-tense by the time you read this…)
For those unfamiliar with Arbonne, they are a fast-growing company focused on health care and skin care products. They claim the products are all natural and most of the people who try them truly love them. The downside is that they are ridiculously expensive. Still, you get what you pay for. For the record, I have several friends in Arbonne and they are good people with a high level of integrity. Nothing I have to say should be construed as inpugning them in any way.
I signed up as an Arbonne consultant on the recommendation of a friend. It's basically a multi-level marketing deal where you are supposed to tap your warm market, teach them the business, help them get rich, etc… It's nice when the product isn't Amway, but the marketing plan is essentially the same.
Before I signed up, I did a little research online. I wanted to see if anyone was successfully marketing Arbonne online. Naturally, there is a corporate web site. But I also encountered several sites created by independent consultants. There were only a few, but they were pretty good as far as content and design. Having a good deal of Internet knowledge, I figured I could do likewise.
So, I signed up and purchased a "myarbonne" site, which would essentially give me a place for my customers to buy product online. Since I had no intent of bringing my family or friends into a multi-level marketing organization (It's the absolute fastest way to alienate family and lose friends), I would be doing all my selling and recruiting online. Well, the recruiting was actually going to be done by a person in my upline, but I'll get to that in a moment.
I paid the obligatory signup fees and, of course, you are expected to purchase product, not for inventory purposes but for your own use. While I do know of some men who enjoy the products, I figured I would let Mary try the Nutrimin-C anti-aging formulas. She liked them a lot, so I purchased enough for her to have a lasting supply.
For an annual fee of $120, you get your own MyArbonne.com site. This was the first red flag for me. Instead of rolling the costs of hosting a few pages into the signup fee, I hit my first "gotcha". I know what web hosting costs and I realize that if someone wants to promote a site that is going to make me money, I don't charge them for space. But this is a way for Arbonne to monetize the consultant. I bit the bullet and paid the fee to register my own Arbonne site.
Next, I encountered Arbonne's search engine submission service. Essentially, they charge $39/year to submit your myarbonne.com site to a list of search engines and directories. This service is a MASSIVE rip off and entirely worthless to the consultant. I suspect Arbonne, Inc. gets a kickback from the company that does the directory submissions for them, because there is no benefit to the consultant. How can I say this?
Here is all you need to know about search engines and directories:
End of story. The rest of the directories and search engines on their list are virtually worthless, netting almost zero traffic for the dollars spent.
Out of these listed, most are created by "spidering" your site, looking for original content, and especially content that changes on a regular basis. It is extremely RARE for subdomain sites to be successfully listed in these places as they deliberately block the majority of them. Why? Because they know that there are going to be hundreds or thousands of people all trying to submit the same blasted content. This clogs the search engines and makes them less valuable to the end consumer. Long story short? Submit your sites to the search engines and directories yourself. It will take about 30 minutes at the most and give you the same benefit.
In order to maximize my Arbonne site traffic, I put together a plan to implement several web strategies.
First, I decided to register a domain, www.fantasticskincare.com I knew Arbonne would not allow their brand name in a url, so I thought this would be fine. After all, I found several other sites that were doing the same thing, and the manager in my upline assured me that it would be alright. I put several hours into building a nice site and was quite pleased with the product.
Next, I choose to leverage my shopping site, www.dealofday.com, by creating an Arbonne category in which I would display my Arbonne special offers and sales. The visitors to my site would be able to easily find product and a link to the myarbonne.com site.
In order to facilitate recruiting, I opted to give away a free sample of the Nutrimin-C RE9 formula to those who signed up for it on my site. I think I processed 150 requests and passed those on to my upline to follow up with. I guess people online just want freebies, because we were unable to make even one sale, let alone sign up a new consultant. So much for a product that "sells itself". I think the price point is just too high for the average person. Talk about sticker shock! Anyhow, my manager tried her best. It just didn't work out.
In the meantime, I had been running my independent site and promoting on DealofDay.com for a few weeks, when lo and behold, I received a notice from Arbonne's legal representative. He/she (can't recall, don't care) informed me that I was in violation of Arbonne's terms of service, both by having my own web site AND by promoting Arbonne products on my shopping site. I thought there must be some mistake. After all, others were doing it and my upline assured me it would be fine.
As it turns out, they no longer allow people to develop their own sites OR promote on any site OTHER than the MyArbonne.com site to sell product. I recall having a lengthy, and extremely frustrating, conversation with some gentleman in their office. Yes, it is paraphrased, but it went a little something like this.
Joel: Let me get this straight. I have bought a web site site to sell Arbonne product online, but I can't promote my business online.
Arbonne: You can put your URL for your MyArbonne.com site on your business cards.
Joel: But I can't promote an Internet site on the Internet?
Arbonne: That is correct.
Joel: That is insane. So how do you explain the consultants out there that DO have an Internet presence? I have encountered no less than three sites that have good seach engine rankings and pleasant design, with the purpose of promoting their Arbonne business and selling products.
Arbonne: They built their sites before we instated this policy, so they were grandfathered in.
Joel: Ah, so those who signed up early have an unfair advantage?
Arbonne: We don't see it that way. We are trying to protect our brand.
Joel: I see. So why not have your team review individual web sites and approve them if they meet your standards?
Arbonne: That would take too much work. We don't have the staff to handle it.
Joel: So it is just easier to discourage innovation and creativity, stifling the people who can take your Internet presence to the next level?
Arbonne: We are primarily an offline business, designed for one-on-one face-to-face encounters with the client. The web site is there to tell your clients about so they can easily purchase product from your site online.
Joel: So why are you encouraging people to pay $39 to submit their myarbonne.com sites to directories and search engines if they aren't supposed to be working their business online?
At this point, Mr. Arbonne got a bit flustered and I had had enough. Clearly, these people really don't have it together regarding their Internet model. Ultimately, its no skin off my back. I take risks like this on a regular basis. I flushed a couple hundred dollars down the tube and my wife got some face cream that she really likes. All in all, not a bad deal. I guess its just the backwards thinking that makes me nuts. Companies that crush creativity and innovative thinking have no business being online. It's not that I mind obstacles to success. It just hacks me off a bit when those obstacles are placed there by the company I am atttempting to succeed with.
So, I removed my Arbonne links from DealofDay.com. I took the product off the site I had created. But I left a redirect at FantasticSkinCare.com for people to get to shopping.myarbonne.com.
Today, I get another email from my friends at Arbonne legal telling me that I am in violation by having any links on any site. I encountered similar problems in dealing with Tupperware, but my Arbonne experience was more maddening. It's a good thing their product is good.
Click here for more skin care discussion
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March 29, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Hi Joel,
If you and/or your wife are still interested in an online (and face-toface) business in the skincare and wellness industry – with an established company that doesn't limit your creativity (well – as long as you arent making false claims etc… ) – please contact me.
While our wellness and nutrition products are better known, our skincare range has recently been taking off – in fact, it accounts for 60% of sales in Europe!
January 6, 2015 at 6:04 am
Like to know what product n company oyu are talking about..
June 21, 2015 at 3:01 pm
what would that brand be called?
September 8, 2015 at 1:57 pm
Hey Len! I too am curious. What company are you referring to? I'd love to get some info. Thanks!!
April 4, 2005 at 9:31 am
I tried multi level marketing before the internet existed. It is hard enough getting people to buy into your "scheme" face to face, online it is next to impossible. The schemes rely on personal relationships to grow. I was also unwilling to bug my friends and family until they think I am so irritating that they avoid me.
These companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't want you to be successful. They just want to move their product.
If Arbonne's brand is so precious they shouldn't be devaluing it by using multi-level marketing.
April 7, 2005 at 4:12 pm
I love Arbonne products and I am a consultant. I completely feel the pain of hitting brick walls with the very company who says they want me to succeed. It's great if you want to buy wholesale but I've had nothing but problems when trying to promote Arbonne online. I did the same thing of building a website only to have to stop as soon as I found out that was against the rules. I got in trouble when I thought I hit the jackpot selling on ebay and then found out that was a no-no as well. Now I sell other "stuff" on ebay and I'm making more money than I have selling Arbonne. It's a shame, really. I could move so much more product on ebay than I ever did doing face to face. I know there are others doing the Arbonne business well but there are so many more who are more internet-savvy and are stopped by this backwards way of thinking.
Thanks for the post, you expressed my frustrations eloquantly. With that said, I'll remain a consultant because I love the discounts on these products.
April 12, 2005 at 5:24 pm
I too am a Arbonne consultant. However, when you sign up for your account you do receive a "Policies and Procedures" manual that explains in great detail the do's and don'ts of internet advertising. It also explains about the websites that were grandfathered in prior to the rule change. As a former network marketer of another company that did not regulate their consultants websites, I can guarantee you that it is best for a company to restrict the websites allowed by their consultants. I appreciate the fact that Arbonne does make it a fair and equal playing field for all consultants. Yes, there are a few consultants that have their own personal websites. But, I've been around long enough to know some of the ones that have their own websites and know for a fact that they did not build their business by website alone. This is a people to people business and takes one on one contact to really be successful. Also, nobody is required to purchase a company website. Most of the people in my upline and on my team do not own a website. It is a personal choice and is offered to those that want one. I have had nothing but a positive experience with Arbonne and look forward to continued success!
April 19, 2005 at 8:07 am
I was looking into Arbonne and my first impression is that it resembles a religious cult in the way they get people to sell their product.
It appears they have similar "brainwashing" techniques that lure you in and make you truly believe that their product is the best. Arbonne might sell great products but it's the thought of promoting the lack of independant thinking that worries me.
Some of the "mind control" techniques are:
*Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group
*Uncritically accept its teachings
*Conform to their behavioral restrictions and
*Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company
Now if you are in sales, the only way to truly sell is to believe in the product or service you are selling with your heart and soul. If you don't you won't sell much. So I understand why Arbonne would make you want to beleive in it's product. It's the process of making you believe in their product that worries me.
Any comments on this?
April 23, 2005 at 3:44 am
First of all Joel, you missed the whole point of having the Arbonne web site. It is a convenient way for your customers to shop and to get referrals from Arbonne.It's not suppose to be a major marketing tool to grow your business. This company is one- on- one, face – to -face. And Pam April 12th was correct in pointing out that apparently you didn't read the rules and regulations. Everything you were complaining about is addressed in the policy manual and at the myarbonne site. Arbonne is about Swiss Skin care first and the opportunity to share that at a discount second. And a business third. It has to be a fit for you – you to be at a place in your life where you don't what to work for someone else anymore.To need that home – based busines for a tax write off or just to win a free vacation.It sounds like you were just looking for another way to make money on-line. Whoever sponsored you unfortunately did you a disservice by leading you to believe that Arbonne was the answer.Sounds like your wife likes the products and that's what Arbonne is about. Plus now you still get a discount so all isn't lost.
And Igor April 19 – sounds like you are in a cult now!
Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group – don't we do that in corp. america every day?
Uncritically accept its teachings – Heard of freedom of speech? There is no Arbonne god that will strike you down if you disagree or ask a question or choose not to do a presentation a certain way. The best thing about MLM's is that we are independent and have our own businesses. Get it?
Conform to their behavioral restrictions –
Let me tell you – I worked in a union grocery store for 18 years.You want to talk about restrictions!
Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company – Are you talking about Arbonne or some sick relationship you had? I don't know how having a choice to resign once a year for $15.00 to keep my wholesale account open can be misjudged as a pemanent commitment.
Please don't talk about a company that you obviously don't know the first thing about!People who don't like MLM's aren't going to understand because they aren't looking at it from the right angle. Have you every be in a rut for so long that you forgot what is was like to learn and grow and socialize with adults? Or to find a product that for the first time actually worked?! And then for a company to care about you sharing what you have found with a friend and then sends you a check? You might be on the lookout for the next get rich quick. That's not what it's about – I'm in it to better myself as a person and maybe to help some others along the way.Arbonne isn't a cult or a get rich quick. It's just a chance for some personal growth disguised as a lip-stick company. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you need some "personal growth" of your own!
April 23, 2005 at 8:47 am
For the record, I do NOT believe Arbonne is a cult. And I DO believe that the product is good.
But really, who reads all the fine print of the policies and procedures? I went on the word of the person in my upline who thought that I would be able to sell through my web site. And I have nothing against her either as she is a very sweet person. It's the company policy that stinks as far as I am concerned.
Ellen and others who support the company, good for you! I already work for myself and I try dozens of new things each year in order to diversify my income. There's no loss on my Arbonne investment as far as I Am concerned. It's just too bad that they aren't in the 21st Century as far as Internet marketing is concerned.
April 26, 2005 at 10:08 am
I'm actually in the process of trying to decide if I want to be an Arbonne consultant or not. I've never tried MLM and have run the other way when any of my friends have invited me to any of their parties. I don't like people to pressure me to sponsor a party or give them names of 5 of my friends who might be interested in having a party. I went to an Arbonne meeting last week and was pretty impressed with the "business" aspect of it…I know it's growing very fast and I'm just wondering if I should catch the wave while it's still hot.
April 30, 2005 at 11:26 pm
KK, you should catch the wave. Arbonne is a real company with real people building real businesses. MLM or Direct Marketing has a bad reputation because of a few companies, but that does not mean it isn't a legitimate way to build a business. Most of the people who have posted here are confused. Joel, sorry, but you should probably stick to internet type businesses. By the way, I work for a software company, my wife is an Arbonne consultant, and I'm about to become one because of the business and the product. Most people who have a problem with building a business through Arbonne's products have incorrect beliefs that they need to change in themselves, that's all. Matt and Igor are really confused and negative, which is probably why they are or have had a tough time with building a business in the first place. If you run into roadblocks, such as problems building online, find other solutions to your problems, don't complain about it and quit the business. The problem is in the attitude. KK, if you don't have a sponsor email us and we will help you by answering any questions we can.
May 6, 2005 at 3:25 pm
Joel –
Thanks for posting your story. I wanted to sell on ebay and online too, and researched first before I got into it. Thank goodness I found your page here, before I sunk any money into Arbonne. I have ZERO interest in the Party Plan of Arbonne, and the idea of MLM makes my skin crawl. But it is getting to be a popular product, and sells really well on ebay. There are a ton of people selling Arbonne on ebay, and I have to believe at least some of them have wholesale accounts and are selling against Arbonnes wishes. In fact, some have a disclaimer that says "Arbonne does not endorse products sold on Ebay" or something like that. Selling magazine subscriptions on ebay is also frowned on by the industry, but there are 1000 listings every day. I wouldn't order subscriptions any other way. I wonder how Arbonne tracks down sellers on ebay, and determines who is selling against policy? Not that I want to bother trying it now….
May 8, 2005 at 11:59 pm
Hi There All…
I am going to be a new mother in a couple of weeks (May 26th is the D-Day!)… I am quitting my clerical job to be a WAHM (work-at-home-mom). I am already an Arbonne Consultant and plan that to be my income (my husband has income too). Are there any secrets to success or words of wisdom from anyone out there who does Arbonne full-time? Or anything I should watch out for? I have heard about the website thing not being useful and am seriously considering not purchasing my own Arbonne site. I would appreciate any comments on Arbonne that ring true and aren't just judgement calls on MLMs. Thanks and wish me luck!!
May 10, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Arbonne seems to insist on that face to face selling aspect to sell product or sell the selling of product. That I can live with to an extent. I don't care for the multi-level marketing setup. I don't care what you call it, it is still a pyramid setup. The people down on the lower levels struggle to make money and do all of the true selling work. The higher you are in the organization the easier it is for you and the more money you make. I have met people that have invested thousand of dollars on simular setups only to have thousands of dollars of product in their garage that they cannot sell for enough money to make a profit. You can dress a pig in a suit but it is still a pig.
Arbonne is a good product, an expensive product, but still high quality. So is Amway, but they are well known for their unfair marketing setup. I want to trust in this product but I feel that they may want more to sell me product at wholesale prices than to help me earn my "Mercedes". I cannot blindly trust someone just because they tell me I should.
May 11, 2005 at 5:37 pm
I have just recently become familiar with the Arbonne product and am seriously considering becoming a consultant. I am currently pre-med and living on my own, and I dont have the money to be taking huge risks! I am just looking for something flexible that I can work around my school schedule. I would be interested in any advice that anyone would be willing to give me on the Arbonne experience, in particular the new "puppy dogging" approach.
May 12, 2005 at 12:32 am
Just had to mention for all who are seeking info. you don't have to make a huge investment to work with Arbonne – Arbonne discourages frontloading, in otherwords, we don't buy products to sell… your customers will buy their products online (albeit through Arbonne's direct website or one approved by them) and they will be delivered directly to their door – as an Arbonne consultant you never have to stock up and then desperatly try to sell your stock – and you do not have to drive all over town dropping off product… much different from the other MLMs I've seen! So what if the website has to be approved by them?? You simply pass the url on to your customers and they log on with their Registration # and pin and shop away. Also – I used to work for an internet marketing company – to PROPERLY optimize your website for the search engines we used to charge thousands of dollars… to do it correctly – in light of that I think Arbonne's offer is a deal.
May 12, 2005 at 8:49 am
It is interesting to read both the negative and positive comments regarding Arbonne. I live in Canada and have been a consultant for 7 months part time. I also have a website but I use it more for refering it to possible new consultants and clients. I have built up my buisiness without the use of my website but still feel it is a valuble tool. Arbonne is not a fit for everyone.It is something you need to work at, but the rewards of Arbonne are well worth the work. Anyone who is looking into Arbonne, I would really give it a good look and talk to consultants who have been sucessful and ask them how they did it and don't just take the word of people who didn't give it a fair chance.
May 16, 2005 at 11:41 am
I am an Arbonne consultant and have been in the business for two years. I absolutely love both the products and the business. I have found that Arbonne always compensates their consultants generously and they always treat us fairly while educating us about the products. I have never heard Arbonne say that their products are all natural. On the other hand, I have heard confused consultants claim that Arbonne's products are all natural. Legally, they have to have preservatives in their prodcuts. They have always been up front about what is in their products. As for your website problem, I don't have a lot of input on that other than I personally have more success with meeting someone face to face. Because my friends want to help me succeed, they are always willing to help me meet new people. Ultimately your business depends on you and what you do with it. If want to succeed you won't let the little things get in your way.
May 17, 2005 at 5:29 pm
I'm so glad I found this site! I am seriously considering Arbonne and looking for the "downsides" of the company. I am currently involved with a competing MLM and am finding the "herbally & botanically based products" of Arbonne very appealling. If the only negative I will read is that regarding website and online sponsoring, then, THANK YOU!!! I think I will be very successful in Arbonne. 🙂
May 17, 2005 at 7:14 pm
You would all make much more money and "keep" your family and friends if you worked part-time at a cosmetic counter at a department store. Time is money and the time involved in selling this product, not to mention all the products and selling techniques videos they push you to buy….well, the money just doesn't add up. If you actually believe you are working for yourself, you are sadly mistaken. No need for negative comments regarding my lack of knowledge in Arbonne and how they run things. I'm very well versed in this area, as well as other MLM. If you can afford it, taking a business management course would give you a better direction and a better knowledge at how a real business is run.
May 17, 2005 at 9:07 pm
To bad the above poster isn't smart enough to know that you push the POST button ONE TIME and wait for it to finish, instead of the twelve times he did… hehe…
May 17, 2005 at 9:35 pm
Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.
May 17, 2005 at 9:35 pm
Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.
May 19, 2005 at 12:20 pm
For those of you who are interested, Arbonne now has a FREE training site for registered consultants at http://www.arbonneuniversity.com.
May 21, 2005 at 9:02 am
Interesting points of view on both sides, I have enjoyed reading the comments and concerns about Arbonne. I thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in! I have been an independent consultant for a little over a year now. I'm not making a lot of money selling Arbonne, I just love using the products. I guess that's what I love most about it. There is no pressure to sell, but I can still use the products at 35% off. Arbonne products really are wonderful, my skin is so much healthier. I have had a few clients come to me to buy products, especially the ABC baby line, on the recommendation of their pediatricians. Arbonne products really are well resepected. If anyone wants to enjoy products at a wonderful discount, or sell them and own their business, I would highly recommend Arbonne!
If you need help getting started, you can email me at [email protected]
May 21, 2005 at 11:10 pm
Hi. Just read through most of these comments since I have some spare time which is getting more abundant as I grow my Arbonne business. Been with the company three years now and just earned my Mercedes CLK320 Convertible. I always heard and read (not from Arbonne by the way), give network marketing three to five years of truley putting in an effort. I love Arbonne! I always ran from network marketing but was so impressed with the products and the ingredients that I had to research this company very carefully. Was blown away by the integrity of the company later on. I WAS a Chem. Eng. and I make more money now than I did doing the other. I spend much less time doing this business obviously. Know many engineers working less than 40 hours a week? Yes it isn't easy to build an organization. It takes time, persistance and patience; but for me, it is so worth it. Getting to this level and helping the team move up is so much more than I imagined. Moving up the ladder is hard to do in corporate world especially if I have to wait for them to retire or they expire plus I get to pick who I get to work with! My family and friends don't hate me either. They are thrilled at my success and love the products too.
If I knew that being where I am now was this good, I would have put more effort and time (maybe 15 to 20 hours/week) to reached this point in my business sooner. I really don't put more than 10 hours a week into it. My children and family are far, far better for my efforts too. My spouse will be starting to build his own organization through Arbonne soon.
Those of you looking to sit behind a computer would do better at selling other stuff on ebay or watching your investment in the stock market. Me, I prefer to be with people, create some fantastic relationships and realize personal growth along with helping others. FYI – I use my website to send my clients to for information and setting up their own account, not to retail products. I could go on but I won't and some of you might be grateful that I didn't. He-he.
Someone mentioned a pyramid scheme. Draw out the structure of building a network marketing group were anyone on the bottom can get to the top and bypass those above if they work it hard enough. My organization doesn't look like a pyramid, it looks like a spider. However, draw out corporate America according to it's structure. CEO at the top, then VPs, then upper management, middle management, general employees, office staff etc. Looks like a triangle to me. Does anyone get to move up from the mailroom to the top whether those above them want them to or not? Corporate America paid me well but I still traded time for money. May be some of those who have posted comments don't know and should that in a pyramid scheme no product changes hands, it's illegal and that a company operating on those conditions would be out of business by the feds in a heartbeat. Arbonne has been around for 25 years and debt free at that. Probably a little more security than what corporate America offers. My father worked forty-three years, more than forty hours a week, and they retired him at 40% less because they did a mini-Enron before Enron.
I never frontloaded product and no one on the team has ever implied that a consultant should do so. In fact, we are strongly discouraged to do so. We only purchase personal use products and just enough product to be tooled for building a business which depends on your reach methods. Personally, I do believe you should make a descent investment in the tools you will need according to the reach out methods you choose. I don't believe you will make upper management just by getting a $29.00 account membership and don't know anyone who has done so. Just like any business, you need to purchase the tools to be successful and work. The client's product is ordered and shipped directly to the client through Arbonne's main website or approved Arbonne website such as mine. Rarely do I deliver product.
For those of you looking to make a difference in the health and wealth of others I can't say enough about the potential of Arbonne. It is a vehicle that can be used to help others and attain time and financial freedom as well as just make a little extra money. It is up to the individual and your effort. There are no guarantees. Well, actually, there is a 45 day money back guarantee on product.
I would be glad to answer any questions about building a business with Arbonne.
Take it for what it's worth… In addition to really doing some due diligence on the company, choose your upline manager's well. Are they successful (Is the person who sponsored them in upper management, and the person who sponsored them, etc… successful), do they support the team, check out their trainings and group meetings and what is their preferred reachout method? Some love home parties, some love sample & follow up and some love one on ones. Choose an upline that helps you find your fit, helps you grow as you go and stays connected even after training. Go meet the team!
The only training I have paid for is by my choice (not promoted by Arbonne) and deals with personal growth and leadership. Highly recommend John Maxwell's leadership and teamwork programs.
Wishing everyone personal growth, prosperity and time freedom whether you jump on the Arbonne opportunity or choose another. Those who choose not to educate themselves on network marketing may be wise to read Rich Dad Poor Dad or something from Robert Kiosaki's collections.
Sure counting my blessings everyday!
May 21, 2014 at 7:59 pm
I REALLY appreciated your reply. I am a recently committed Arbonne Independent Consultant. My wife joined first and after a good long while, I wanted to help her. I really like what I've heard and read about Arbonne and I believe in it … but I have also read some "challenging" articles. Your post was very calm, genuine and inspiring.
If you are still out there, I would greatly appreciate a response from you so we can communicate via email outside of this website — thank you.
September 14, 2014 at 5:59 pm
I was very impressed with your statement about Arbonne. I took your suggestion, I am reading Rich Dad Poor Dad.
I have worked in a similar MLM Corp., I was very successful, life changes now has me considering reentering this environment. I would be interested in speaking to you in a format outside the web site, and would appreciate you contacting me A.S.A.P. if you are still with Arbonne International/
Thank you for your time. I look forward to your contact.
August 3, 2016 at 1:43 am
Wow thank you for this. I feel inspired and use to sell Arbonne forever ago when it was still kinda "new" and I didn't know what the heck it was or what I was doing. My up line person had kinda "forgot" about me with the help aspect. It was tough so finally when it was time to renew my membership I gave up and quit. Since then I have been doing a different online thing although have been seriously considering something like Arbonne again. I like the variety of different things you can do with Arbonne…..Its not just skin care, or make up, or nutrition, but its kinda everything all packed into one which is something I like. If you are still into Arbonne I would love for you to get in touch with you.
June 4, 2005 at 2:19 am
I have been an arbonne consultant for the last month and 1 week and am at district manager (your fellow arbonne people know what im saying) its the first level where you make $600-800 a month and i did it very easily and part time. This is the most amazing company i have ever have the opportunity to work with!!! Those of you who say "mlm" is a bad way to go then great you go back to your corporate job having some bully(ur boss) tell you when to come to work how much you make and when you get a raise. If you like being pushed around by some CEO great but dont bag on us who are acutally in control of our future making a great living having to answer to know one! All of you arbonne consultants who are strugling email me and i will share with you what i am doing to make my buisness boom. Im always willing to train. Those who think small get small results. I just love to hear people say "Ohhhh MLM they are evil" it makes me laugh cause they are so ignorant and have no clue on what a true pyramid acutally is…its corporate america!!! When i get my car in august i will send you all a pic haha
June 7, 2005 at 10:40 pm
Wow….Joal…I hate to say it but you're a moron. Geez..all of your "arguments" are easily debunked…so folks…don't listen to him. My wife is a National Vice President with Arbonne. We've been with them for only two years and her monthly income is over $25,000 and growing. This business is exploding! And by the way…we don't do "parties" and we don't need whatever little bit you could make off of ebay. EBAY!? …come on. Who has time to bother with it. I'm too busy being on the golf course! Friends…if you're reading this and wanting financial freedom…get aboard NOW! Email me and I'll explain how easy this business is..how legitimate it is and how much fun it is.
February 7, 2017 at 7:14 pm
Hello Dave,
Are you still with Arbonne and if so how did you build your business if not having parties. I'm very interested in joining but don't like the party idea or bugging family and friends.
Thanks and congrats on being so successful
Any input will be helpful
June 8, 2005 at 3:21 pm
You spelled Joel's name wrong.
June 12, 2005 at 8:50 pm
Are you people insane? Nobody is making $25,000 a month selling cosmetics. To make that much money, you'd have to be grossing $100,000 of sales a month, more or less, and I doubt that Dave or anybody else has that many friends who want to buy bogus "Formulated in Switzerland" skin products. Take a look at the label if you want an idea of how bogus Arbonne is: It says "Swiss" and "Suisse" all over it, but when you get to the fine print, it's not really Swiss at all, it's simply "Formulated" (whatever that means – it's left purposefully vague) in Switzerland. The name "Arbonne" may sound Swiss, but Arbonne is a village in the Pyrenees in south-western France and is nowhere near Switzerland. If you're a dishonest huckster and don't mind getting people to overpay for a dishonest product, or if you have no qualms about exploiting the labors of those who come below you in the pyramid scheme, then Arbonne is for you. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the rest of us alone.
June 12, 2005 at 9:47 pm
I understand about Joel's frustration about the website because I had originally thought I would make most of my ARBONNE money using my arbonne website. However, when my friends started making serious money using the Puppy system I quickly changed my thought process and started using the system myself. And to backup Dave's post about his wife making $25,000 a month, I know people making more than $25,000 a month and I know a bunch of people using the Puppy System that are making $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 a month. The Puppy system is the only way to do this business if you want to make real money. No parties, No running around trying to sell product, just finding 4 people that you can work with.
June 13, 2005 at 10:32 am
Wow…I'm simply amazed at the ignorance that is thrown around as "wisdom" and "fact". Mr. "Get Real", I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. You're creating your own fiction and deciding to call it "fact" no matter the evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure why such hostility but I'll try to quickly answer Get Real's comments.
First, "Formulated" means, developed, created and then tested to make sure it's safe and that it works. And then it's manufactured in the USA. What's so hard about that? Many products today are not designed and developed in the same place they are manufactured. Callaway golf clubs are designed in California, but made in China. Is Callaway therefore a Chinese company?? And btw..nobody says Arbonne is from Arbonne FRANCE. The Arbonne Institute of Research and Development (AIRD), which you can see pictures of on the Arbonne website, is in Switzerland, specifically Sion, Switzerland. Nobody's trying to hide those facts. It's called "Swiss" because it's developed in Switzerland by mostly, European herbalists and chemists who use Swiss and European herbal and botanical principles in the approach to product formulation. But they are made in the USA and the company is based in California. NO SECRETS THERE!! Hey…the products work, and that's what counts. If you don't like the product…don't use it. My results were more than satisfactory and I have had skin problems since my teen years. If you doubt me, contact a consultant and ask for a sample or take advantage of the 45-day guarantee. Most people who try the products like them..A LOT. That's been our experience. What can I say?
As far as the money comments by Get Real, you're right, we don't sell $100,000 worth of product every month. We only personally sell about $2500, if that. But our organization, all the people under us, sell a total of $500,000 each month. And that number is growing so fast. We'll be a million dollar organization by October if not earlier. And I know people in Arbonne making over 6 figures monthly. My wife's checks are actually below average for an NVP…although she's a new NVP which is the main reason. And don't tell me the people who are making $100K plus per month are lying. I've been to there homes. It's real. I see how many people they've promoted and can do the math myself.
And frankly, nobody in Arbonne who has been successful is teaching that you can be successful and make big money by selling on ebay, or thru your website. It's about duplication. You teach others to sell a little bit, and they teach others to sell a little bit, and so forth, and you get a small commission on the total of everybody. Duplication is the name of the game. You can't do this business hiding in your home office. It takes work. It takes talking to people.
Because you've had a bad experience with another network marketing company, or because you weren't successful with Arbonne, doesn't mean it's not real or that others aren't successful.
There are three reasons people are not successful with Arbonne and none of them involve the company or the products. (But I'll agree that in some companies it might just be the products or the company. Not with Arbonne though.)
The first reason is the person just doesn't do anything. They sign up, buy some product but then don't get into the activity of selling it. They somehow think it will happen automatically.
The second reason is they don't follow the training. Then decide to find an "easier" way. Most of the time the "easier" way is not duplicatable, isn't effective and doesn't work. But instead of following the lead of the successful people and doing what THEY did, this type decide Arbonne doesn't work because their method didn't work. This is where you ebay and website people fall. No RVP or NVP got to that level with ebay or their website sales, but you think it's a fraud since those methods didn't work for you. The way to succeed is to find someone who's been successful and do what they're doing. There are over 500 RVPs and NVPs across the country. By next month there will be 600. They'll be happy to tell you how they did it. Go on the Arbonne website and read their stories. Everyone is there and they tell how they did it.
And the third reason people fail is they're just not likable. Other people don't like you, trust you or respect you, so they don't want to work with you. If you're negative, cynical, hostile, uncoachable and pessimistic you might fall into this catagory. I suggest you read Dale Carnagie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and begin to work on yourself. Because you'll not only fail at Arbonne, you'll fail in many other areas too that involve relationships.
Bottom line success in Arbonne is real if you do three things. Get into activity and stay in activity. Duplicate what successful people are doing. And be the kind of person others will want to follow. It's not complicated, but for many it's very hard. And I'm sorry for those who find this recipe hard. I hope you can find the inner strength that it takes to change yourself so it becomes easier and you find success in whatever you do.
Personally, I don't care if Get Real or Joel, or any other negative or skeptical person who posts here ever finds success. But I do care if their attitude drags someone else down who otherwise could find success with Arbonne. Our experience has been life changing and extremely rewarding. The timing is now. So don't wait. Contact me if you need more info.
Okay..quick comments to finish with Get Reals post. Cosmetics is a trillion dollar industry worldwide. What do you mean nobody is making money selling cosmetics??? Wow, check the revenues of your major cosmetic companies.
Next, nobody is being dishonest, or a huckster. You need proof? I'll print out our last year's statement and you can see our monthly override checks. But yeah…because we did it, doesn't mean you can. I'll agree with that for the reasons I meantioned above.
As far as over priced goes…you're wrong there too. Compare prices of Arbonne to Lancomb or Clinique and our retail prices are comparable or cheaper. Take off the 35%+ discount and they're a bargain compared to department store cosmetic counter competitors.
As far as the pyramid scheme thing…If I had a real job, where would I be in THAT pyramid? And what are my chances of getting to the top? In my Arbonne business I'm at the top of my organization and anyone in my organization is at the top of their's. We all have equal opportunity to reach the top pay level because it's based on productivity. Not luck, or politics or being liked by the boss or by hoping the person above you quits, gets fired or dies. When we joined Arbonne there were 33 NVPs. Now there are over 100. Did General Motors add 70 Presidents to THEIR pyramid last year? Something to think about.
June 15, 2005 at 6:03 pm
What an interesting insight from various people regarding this subject. What you all have forgotten is that each person as a choice in this country. When making a choice in starting a business, all information, facts and otherwise should have been carefully researched by that person. In my experiences with at least 8 different network marketing companies, Arbonne stands alone in its committment to its products, service and training. Arbonne has a turn-key business for anyone who has the drive to get them were they want to go………..Its not for the faint-hearted & its not your traditional business. Arbonne has created a system that works for anyone who works it…….its that simple.
June 16, 2005 at 11:27 pm
After being with Arbonne for two months, 5 parties and lots of samples later, what do I get?? ZERO sales!! Nuthin', Nada, Zilch! I tried their weight loss program and gained 7 lbs in 2 weeks. I love their skin care, but Arbonne is not meant to be.
I'm going to the gym with the Figure 8 money that I was setting aside for. I get free childcare too. Definitely more worth it than Arbonne.
June 17, 2005 at 8:58 am
Gosh…I wasn't going to comment on your post domestic diva, because I feel like I've said enough here, but the more I thought about your comments, the more I felt compelled to share a story that I think is relevent. Back in 1983 I left my "career" as a radio announcer because I wanted to get into sales, thinking I could make more money. I prepared by reading every sales training book I could get my hands on. The first sales job I had I was selling a home improvement product, which to this day is one of the best products of its kind on the market. Many sales people in my office were doing extremely well and making tons of money. Yet, after 2 months I hadn't sold a thing. Not a dollar's worth. The product was great. The company top rated. Yet I failed terribly. I left there and went to work for a computer company. Back then desktop computers were just beginning to hit the market. It was the days of MS-DOS and IBM PCs. My company was one of IBM's biggest competitors, yet we were very small in comparison, but I believed we had a better product..and we did. We sold mostly to businesses because home buyers didn't really exist then. I was great at selling computers and won many sales contests and earned several awards. What was the difference? I don't know. Maybe I didn't come across as believable, or maybe my presentation was boring. But I know that while I failed at one thing, I excelled at another. Maybe Arbonne isn't right for you. Maybe something else is. But I'm sure the products and the company were not the reason you failed. Something in your presentation was obviously not working and your sponsor should never have allowed you to do 5 parties without any sales. Now and then we all have bad parties. But on average, if you have 4 or 5 people, you should do at least $250 to $500 in retail volume. Arbonne is a sales business. You can't escape that fact. Some people are better at it than others, but it almost always comes down to, as Michael Clouse says, does the prospect "know you, like you and trust you."? Those components need to be in place in any sales position, Arbonne or not. Joe Girardi, a famous car salesman, wrote a book years ago entitled, "How to Sell Yourself" and he makes the point that selling success begins with selling yourself first. People won't buy from you if they don't trust you or like you. Or maybe you simply presented to the wrong crowd. Arbonne has gone from $25 million in sales in 2002 to what will be $400 million this year. Somebody is selling it with success! That can't happen by accident. Anyway..best wishes for future success.
June 17, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Wow – I am a new consultant with the puppy dog program – I am excited – I know that it works (both the product & the program) – I, too, have fears (that is what it is) that everyone I know & love will think "oh no – I hope she doesn't talk about Arbonne again". That being said – I am willing to put in the effort & work and really want it to happen. I am using this website as a referral for my friends who are thinking about becoming a consultant. This way they can see both sides and hopefully see the fear and negativity which prompted some to fail… and courage that others had to succeed and I mean SUCCEED!!!
June 21, 2005 at 10:36 am
I have been with Arbonne for a little over 3 yrs. I'm a former teacher turned at-home-Mom (I have my M.Ed.) with 3 young children – they were ages 5, 3 and newborn when I started.
Today I am a National Vice President and my paycheck is $20K a month – that's 5 times my former teaching salary. My husband is retired at age 37. I work 20 hours a week from my home office and my schedule revolves around my family time. We are living the life of our dreams. I earned my Mercedes after only 18 months and we're buying a new home that we never could have afforded before. Thank you, Arbonne!
I have also seen the lives of many people change because of this incredible company. My family members and friends (not alienated at all) are happily earning their Mercedes and are quitting their 9 to 5 jobs to work part-time from home as well. Arbonne is a 25 yr old company that has had 100% growth for the past 3 yrs in a row and over 150% growth from Jan to May in 2005. Arbonne is exploding and it's not because it's a pyramid or a scam.
Say what you want about Arbonne… until you have done your own investigating (not taking the word of anyone on this site, especially the author) you won't really know if Arbonne is right for you or not.
One more thing you need to know: when you get to the level of Area Manager in Arbonne you can will your paychecks (that keep coming after you should pass away)to your children or spouse. I don't know of any other companies that provide that kind of service.
I wish all of you the best in your endeavors. I hope you will take the time to do some true investigating on your own – this company is worth it.
June 21, 2005 at 10:46 am
I'm confused a bit… Arbonne is an expensive product… only people with a decent amount of money can afford it… so, most are people who are reasonably bright, at least… you are directed to your consultant's website for actual purchasing… Arbonne offers on their website a $29 "membership" that gets you those expensive products at 35% off… you'll pay for the membership instantly… who in their right mind would pay more?!?
And if we're selling to our friends and family, then surely we'd let them know about the 35% off deal. Right?
So, 35% margin will only happen when selling to morons that you don't like too much, right?
June 21, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Hi Joe –
Anyone can go on to the Arbonne company web site or any Arbonne Consultant's web site and sign up with an account, receiving 35% off instantly. I personally don't have any clients that pay the full retail price – I sign up my clients with their own wholesale account (you also get to choose any one product of your choice for free with a $100 sign-up order – cost to you is $65 for the order with the discount) so they can order at their leisure and receive the 35% off. It's like having a Sam's Club or Costco card.
I used to think Arbonne's products were expensive too until I did some price comparisons. And with the discount you can't go wrong…
June 27, 2005 at 7:51 pm
I have to say dave you have posted some of the best comments in here! I too am district manager and area by next month that 3 months total to be making 3k a month i think thats not too shabby. I was wondering if you and your wife did the puppy dog system to grow your buisness? I also was wondering if all of you new consultants new who acutally started the puppy dog way? Their names are Jerry and Rachelle nichols. They started it in oklahoma and brought to arizona where it is just booming. I owe my whole success to them for creating this amazing new way of doing the buisness. I think he gets left out and not everyone knows his amazing story. It is because of him that i am going to be getting my car in september this year that is 5 months from start to finish. To all of you skeptics out there you cant knock something if you havent tried it. Rich dad Poor Dad is the best book i have ever read i recommend it to every person especially you fellow arbonnians 🙂 Good luck to all of you out there and thanks Dave for you awesome insight!
June 28, 2005 at 7:45 am
Hi Candace and thanks for the generous comments. I know that there�s the chance that someone thinking about starting an Arbonne business my stumble upon this site and I think it would be a shame if they decided against it because of a comment from someone who is either mistaken on their facts or who failed because they tried some method that has never been proven to work. If we can point out those errors maybe someone will take the opportunity to dramatically change their life for the better and be successful. I know our lives have been forever changed for the better and it really wasn�t that complicated. It just took commitment and persistence. I�m sure Joel didn�t intend this thread to be a tool for encouraging people to get aboard the Arbonne train, but the story of this company and the remarkable success that�s occurring across the country cannot be denied. Despite the negative comments that pop up here, people are doing this business and many of them are building fabulous businesses and earning incredible incomes. That�s going to continue for quite a while. Anyone who passes this opportunity up is only allowing someone else to take the business that could have been theirs.
BTW�Congratulations on your promotions and I�ll look for your RVP announcement in the near future. I�ll look for you in Hawaii!
To answer your questions though�No, we built our business for the most part training on and doing class presentations along with a lot of �one-on-ones�. It�s only in the last few months that we�ve adopted the �puppy� system and we�ve had great success with it. But people on our team are finding that using the puppy system is also a great way to get classes. People who use the product and buy it are sometimes asking if they can host a class. So I would say our strategy now is to generate interest among those who we are targeting as potential business builders by using the puppy system and then using those contacts to schedule some classes. Our feeling is that whatever works for you is what you should concentrate on, but a combination of approaches is proving very effective.
And yes, I have heard of the Nichols and their success. We�re direct to Cecilia so we are fairly tied into what�s happening in OK, even though we�re in the Mid Atlantic region. I�m thrilled to hear about other�s success. Best wishes for your continued success and enjoy your car!
June 28, 2005 at 1:13 pm
Once again, I would ask the scam artists to please stop preying on the credulous and the desperate. The puppy dog system is a pyramid scheme, pure and simple. You pay $1,500 or so for four kits, get four gullible friends to take them and then sign up to buy another $1,500 worth of kits, and then you earn money on your friends' purchases. The catch – and there's always a catch – is that you have to buy $70 or so of products EVERY MONTH in order to earn "upstream" revenues. So the pyramid scheme only works when 1) you're wasting your family's money on buying Arbonne's bogus, new age cosmestics; and 2) the people you're preying on downstream are also buying the products. But sooner or later the house of card falls apart, because the people at the very bottom eventually realize they're on the bottom and can't find anybody to scam into the pyramid, and they stop buying the products. The people one rung up from them then stop buying the products, because they don't have anyone beneath them sending revenue upstream anymore, and pretty soon everyone realizes it's a scam and stops paying high prices for lotions in Arbonne's pretty bottles. If you get in at the top, you've already made a pretty penny, but if you're at the middle or the bottom you lose, and all your supposed friends who claimed they would change your life have exploited you to take money away from you and your family.
Now I know that the Arbonne people on this web site are going to sceam at me for being "negative", but that's exactly right – I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves.
June 28, 2005 at 3:18 pm
I'm not going to scream at you "Get Real" for being negative. If I were going to scream at you it would be for being wrong. But you're entitled to being wrong, and I hate banging my head against a wall. You're also entitled to depending on someone else to provide you with a means of making a living. We need people who are willing to make pizza, pump gas and cut grass, etc.; as well as be doctors, lawyers and accountants. If you're one of those who wants to get paid for your time or productivity…go for it. The truth is…no one who is doing the "puppy system" is leaving out the necessity of developing regular customers, clients who buy the products but are not doing the business. (If that's what you've been taught then I'd go to your upline get it straigtened out) As I think I said in an earlier post, after two plus years we have nearly 200 or more wholesale buyers and/or retail clients who purchase on average about $1500 per month, in addition to the $200 or so we purchase for ourselves. And we purchase for ourselves because we love the product. They have made a dramatic difference in the appearance of our skin and I wouldn't use anything else. It's not bogus for me. These products work. (And just a side here…we weren't looking to do this business when we first tried the products. It's because we loved the products that we got involved. We had been introduced to NuSkin in 1988 and did NOT get involved because the products did nothing for us.)
So….it's not a pyramid, house of cards, or whatever you want to call it if you're building a business the right way. If you do it the way "Get Real" suggests it's being done, then I'd agree it's a house of cards….but I have not come across anyone doing it that way or teaching that it be done that way, and Arbonne management would not approve of that method as suggested. You're paid on product sales, and you're paid the most on your OWN product sales. In fact, if you did as "Get Real" suggests, you yourself would eventually have no income because you only get paid on a maximum of 6 levels. If you allowed to happen what "GetReal" says is happening, eventually all the sales volume would be so far away from you that, those "at the top" as he says, would also not make any money. We're not in it for a quick buck. We're in it to develop a long term residual income based on long term product sales to happy customers, and we have no plans to do anything other than continue to find new customers and those few who want to join us in the business. I'm certainly not ashamed of participating. We work very hard at what we do and have many success stories on our team to be proud of. Nobody we've worked with has ever regretted getting involved in the business. And just so you know…..if we were depending on family and friends, we would have nothing much to be proud of. While we so have some family and a few friends who joined the business they are not reason we have the position or the income we have. They are a small, very small portion of our team's productivity.
Just one other thing that indicated to me that "Get Real" is completely ignorant on this subject. If what was he is suggesting was happening, how much money would anybody be losing? Frankly, not much. If the new consultant didn't sell his/her four sets, there would be no need to order 4 more. If they did sell them, then like any business, they'd want to restock. And then if they didn't sell the second set of 4, why would they reorder?? They wouldn't. The point is, no one is being told or forced to buy a set amount every month. So even if you DID buy 4 sets and invested $1000 to start your business, no one is making you buy anymore. If you quit you're out your $1000 and you have 4 sets to use. I don't see such a horrible downside to that.
June 28, 2005 at 6:22 pm
Joel, You are welcome to join our yahoo club called mlmsurvivorsclub. You can find it also on the http://www.mlmsurvivor.com website. I have been involved in a few mlm's and party plans and the mlm's are the worst as far as deception goes (by the higher ups). We have lost thousands of dollars chasing a "dream" of making it in an mlm that has never paid out the way they promise. I wish you the best! Stay away from mlm's!! -Jennifer
June 28, 2005 at 9:03 pm
Sorry to hear of your past failures Jennifer. I lost money in the stock market crash a few years ago. Why? Because I owned the wrong companies. Does my failure in the market condemn all of the stock market as a fraud and deceptive and a waste of time? Of course not. The companies I own now are doing very well. I would bet most of us in Arbonne would agree with you that there are some pretty bad apples in the MLM industry. I also would imagine that most of you who didn't make it in MLM didn't fully do the research on your chosen company and didn't read any books on the subject of Network Marketing to learn what to look for. For instance, was your chosen company financially sound? Did they have a strong and competent management team? Did they offer consumable products? Had they been in business at least 5 years? Were the products unique? Were they priced right? Would you have purchased their product even if you weren't doing the business? Was there a large and growing market with demand for the product? Was the compensation plan fair and based on rewarding productivity in sales of products?
Chances are you would have had to say 'no' to one or more of those questions. Personally, I don't doubt that you lost money. I know people who lost money. I had no interest in Network Marketing myself because of stories like yours and because I couldn't find a company that I could answer all those questions with a YES! Until Arbonne.
I'm not defending MLM or any OTHER company in this industry. I'm only defending Arbonne and the compensation structure under which this company functions. Who knows? There may be other good ones out there. I'm sure there are. But until someone shows me a company that the questions I posed above can be answered positively, I'll only speak for Arbonne.
So Jennifer…sorry again…but I'll be happy to tell you more about Arbonne and why it's different…if you're open to listening. You should think about this…Henry Ford started and bankrupted 7 businesses before he founded the Ford Motor Company. Ulysses S Grant was nearly bankrupt and a failure in several businesses before returning to the Military and the being elected President. Lincoln ran for congress and lost as did both President Bushs. The point is we all fail from time to time. If a few failures cause you to give up…that's fine…no one would blame you. But greatness comes from persistance and endurance. Your lessons learned could be valuable in helping others avoid those same mistakes…not by shooting down their dreams, but by directing them to where they have the best chance of success. Before you lump Arbonne in with the companies that you failed with, do the research. You might actually be surprised.
June 29, 2005 at 12:46 am
Hi! I, too signed up as an Arbonne consultant, but have not "acted" on it, because I could not host any classes. Now, with the puppy dog system it is doable. However, I have questions regarding the income. My friend who signed me up won't answer my questions regarding how much she makes, so I thought I try this forum instead. If I invest the time and the money, I would like to know if it's worth it. The overrides are a bit confusing. Seems to me that if you are a DM, and your retail volume is say $5K, you only get 8% off of the 65% override volume ($3250), which equals $260. My friend is qualifying for AM this month, so if she has a RV of $10K, that means she only makes $520, correct? That sounds like peanuts to me and not the thousands of dollars people are claiming to make. It seems Dave lives in a high-income area, which we don't. Can anybody give me some real incomes of DM's and AM's or even consultants? Also, how much RV do I have to have to make say $800 per month? Thanks!
June 29, 2005 at 6:02 am
My mother is trying to sell Arbonne products and I can't really comment on how its going but there is one major issue we can't resolve. Where is this "Arbonne Institute of Research and Development (AIRD)"? I have looked in the Swiss phone book there is no listing. Search for yourself: http://www.directories.ch/
I happen to live in Switzerland and have a business here. In Switzerland all businesses are required to register with the "Handelsregister" and there is no Arbonne listed in the Canton of Valais where Sion is located. Search for yourself: http://www.powernet.ch/cgi-bin/hrform.cgi/hraPage?language=1&amt=601
I have written to Arbonne asking for the address and phone number many months ago, but they have nor replied.
Frankly, something smells fishy here.
June 29, 2005 at 7:44 am
First Andrea…
Yes, your math is correct. You'd get an override of $260. But if you had 5 signups in that month you'd also get the DM bonus of $200. If you had any of your signups go with the RSVP order you'd get $50 for each of those. Your friend at Area would make the $520 plus her DM bonus as well if she had $5000 in her District and 5 signups for a total of $720 plus any RSVP bonuses. Once she gets to Area that same volume would get her an additional $390. So if $800 a month is what you're after, get to Area and you'll have it. No one makes big pay checks at District. It's a building process like any other business. (I'm sure that Bill Gates makes a bigger paycheck today than he did the first year Microsoft was founded.) It may not seem like much at first, but I'd bet if you figure out the hourly wage it would be equal, if not better, than working at Walmart or almost any parttime job.
Your friend however should be willing to tell you what her last override check was. Also, if you got to the Arbonne web site you will find a section listing the average bonus and override payouts per quarter at each level.
Now to Ed..
Come on Ed….do you really think Arbonne is trying to pull something over on us? I'm sure there's an explanation. At NTC this year they had a slide show of the place. There have been National Vice Presidents who have visited it. I'm asking myself, and getting no answer, "what would be the purpose, what motive, or how would this benefit the bottom line of the company, to talk about a place that doesn't exist?" And how would they get all these NVPs who have gone there to get on board with keeping up the illusion?? I don't know what the rules are in Switzerland about business listings, but it's not a retail store. The don't need to advertise. It's a private research laboratory. Only the people who work there need to know where it is.
This kind of reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze 8 or 9 years ago where there were all these stories of people unable to find where Ty, the manufacturer, was located, like there was some big conspiracy. Reporters were all over the Chicago area asking people where this Ty company was located and nobody knew. They weren't in the phone book either. hmmmmmmm…interesting.
June 29, 2005 at 10:08 am
Hi Dave,
My question is simple enough, never mind what I think or don't think. Give me an address! Phone books, business registries and even Swiss search engines turn up nothing. Maybe there is a simple explanation but I certainly have not found it.
June 29, 2005 at 10:37 am
Yes Ed, your question is simple enough…but irrelevant don�t you think? Unless you�re accusing Arbonne of fabricating a story about a fictional research laboratory, what difference does it make if the place is or isn�t listed in the phone book? But I guess that�s what you�re doing so that�s why it matters what is on your mind. The explanation is surely a simple one as I said, but is it really worth spending time on it? There's not one good reason to make such a story up. The suggestion is simply ludicrous.
June 29, 2005 at 10:46 am
Hi Dave,
OK, I will play the devil's advocate: I think that Arbonne has fabricated the fact that they have a laboratory in Switzerland to benefit from the Swiss image for meticulously researched and and finely crafted products. There, prove me wrong. 🙂
June 29, 2005 at 11:21 am
So if I take you up on your suggestion, Ed, that I "prove you wrong"….what will that accomplish for you personally? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you needing therapy because of this question? Are you afraid that your uncertainty will cause undue harm to someone? I don't get why this is such a burning question for you. You really believe that a 25 year old company would be perpetrating a fraud so they could sell more product with the �Swiss� name on it and that after 25 years of a spotless record YOU are the first person to figure this caper out and report on it? It�s just silly, sorry to say. So if I provide an address, or an explanation for your inability to track down this international conspiracy, what do I get in return? An apology? You see it�s not worth my time to bother. I know individuals who have been there and they have no reason to lie. I�ve seen their pictures. Up until recently the pictures of NVP Jeanne Sterner�s visit were right on the Arbonne website. It�s such a moot point I can�t believe I�m even commenting on it!
June 29, 2005 at 11:51 am
Is it true that Donald Trump said that if he could make is fortune over again, he would have started a MLM / Network Marketing Company because the investment has a higher return that realty? …Maybe this is a rumor…
Just a bit of advice to the people that are posting, leave some of the emotion out of the messages – stick to the facts – this will help gain credibility to your words.
June 29, 2005 at 12:02 pm
Joel, it's interesting I found your blog today on this topic! I was looking at my hits to my blog where I also discussed this topic. My time is up as of July 4, 2005, and I completely agree with the frustration you have experienced trying to sell online. I have also noticed that some consultants could do things to advertise online and others are not allowed to do so. Replicated sites are worthless in the search engines, whether we pay $39 or not to promote them. I got http://www.ShareSkinCare.com to promote it so I wouldn't have the product name online. It's just God telling me to stick with my artwork 🙂 and not get tempted by any more direct sales…so I'm going to listen to Him this time! (if you check out shareskincare.com you will see I have removed any promotion from there, and when the time is up, I am going to forward the link to my art site).
I'm sorry I had lost touch with you, I am still interested in doing some art for you if you are interested, please contact me. Sorry we lost touch somehow.
June 29, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Oh Joel, I'm sorry I forgot…if your wife likes Arbonne, then give http://www.paulaschoice.com/ a try. Similar products @ 1/2 the price
June 29, 2005 at 12:43 pm
Ed- So glad someone else has had the same doubts about Arbonne's supposed Swiss-ness. I called the Registre de Commerce (Business Registry) in Sion, Switzerland (+41 27 322 92 05), and the officials there say there is no "Arbonne" registered in the Canton of Valais, nor have they ever heard of anything named "Arbonne". Sion is a town of just under 20,000 people, so if there were in fact an "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development" in Sion, Switzerland (As Dave, the guy whose wife supposedly makes $25k a month, claims in the post above), you would think that the Business Registry would at least have heard of the place. I, too, have asked Arbonne, Inc. for more details on the "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development", and they have avoided the request. This just seems like one more reason to avoid the company altogether.
June 29, 2005 at 3:28 pm
Supply an address and phone number and you have my respect and apologies. Simple enough?
June 29, 2005 at 4:20 pm
I'll supply an address, Ed, or at least a description of the location if I can. Frankly, I've never been there so I can't tell you first hand where to find it. I'm sure it's not a huge place. There's probably only 10 or 12 employees. I have written to one of the NVPs who has been there, and by the way, has a picture of her standing in front of the place on her Eye On Arbonne. (EOAs are printed success stories from VPs) However, since I'm so confident the place exists and since your are adamant that it doesn't…so much so that you now have "Get Real" piling on….I'm tempted to suggest a little wager. How much can you afford to lose??
June 29, 2005 at 4:41 pm
Forget about the wager, play devil's advocate and ship him a bottle of the shave gel…it is awesome stuff. At least then he will see how quality the product is.
June 30, 2005 at 1:36 am
Hi Dave,
There is no need for a bet, I have good faith in you, if the place exists you will come up with an address and phone number. I have no complaint about Arbonne products and it seems MLM marketing schemes are here to stay in spite of what I think of them.
My point is, if…and I say IF, a company is going to plaster the Swiss flag all over their products and claim that they are formulated in Switzerland in their research laboratory and the whole thing turns out to be a fabrication then I think that would speak volumes about the scruples of the people that are running the company, don't you?
June 30, 2005 at 6:05 am
Absolutely I agree with you, Ed. And that's the point I've been trying to make here. No matter what you think of Network Marketing or what your past experience has been with other companies, our experience with Arbonne has been completely different. I've met the people who run this company and I've met people from all across the country who are involved in this business and I have come to know the nature of their character and integrity. I have complete faith in their scruples, as you put it, because I've never seen anything, or experienced anything, that I find questionable. That's why I find your skepticism about the existence of AIRD to be so unfounded. (That and the pictures I�ve seen of the place.) It's not like this company, or the people who I've had the privilege to know, to fabricate such a story. The damage to the company and the reputations of a lot of people, if it were a fabrication, would far out weigh any benefit.
Arbonne was recently purchased by an investment group called Harvest Partners. Do the research on them and you'll find a company with a tremendous reputation. Do you think HP would invest millions in a company with such a skeleton in its closet?
I'll let you know what I find out as soon as someone responds to my emails. BTW…I did find the address and phone number of the gentleman who runs AIRD and his residence in the next town over from Sion. So at least I know the director lives nearby.
June 30, 2005 at 9:03 am
Hi Dave,
I have also found the address and phone number of Pierre Bottiglieri. I have a call into SCC which according to Arbonne is the organization he is supposed to be president of (he is not the president by the way) and he is supposed to call me back….so far there has been no reply. I will let you know the moment I hear something.
Regards, Ed
June 30, 2005 at 9:47 am
Ok, I just got off the phone with Mr. Bottiglieri. Here is the scoop: Arbonne has never been and is not currently legally registered in Switzerland and currently there is no laboratory facility nor has there ever been a laboratory solely for the purpose of R&D for Arbonne products.
What really happened was: Mr. Bottiglieri worked for a company called Laboratoires Biologiques Arval S.A. (www.arval.ch) and they did some work for Arbonne. Arval is a big lab that does research and development for 100's of different cosmetics companies from around the world. Arbonne was just one of many of their customers.
Mr. Bottiglieri did tell me that Arbonne was currently in the process of applying for their first business license and they are looking for a location to put in a laboratory but it will be some months away before it is all official.
I believe Arbonne's representation of the AIRD is misleading and dishonest.
June 30, 2005 at 7:15 pm
Hi Ed,
At this point I think I have the story straight and I will admit that I was under a misconception about AIRD. But having said that, I don�t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne. The whole explanation and history would take far too much space here to go into and would be pretty useless, but I�ll try to share enough of what I�ve learned to satisfy your inquiry.
First, you�re right in the sense that AIRD does not exist as a specific place. At least not yet. That is certainly a misconception on my part, but I must add, that misconception wasn�t really because of anything Arbonne actually said or states in any literature. I misinterpreted information and made a conclusion without all the facts. The pictures I saw were of the facility that, at the time, had been set aside to work exclusively on Arbonne products, and not owned by Arbonne. I�m actually grateful to you for allowing me the opportunity to clear this up in my own understanding.
In essence, AIRD historically has been a team of professional chemists, herbalists and master skin care professionals who are coordinated by Arbonne to develop the ideas and science needed to create Arbonne products. In the early days many of these researchers including Pierre, were indeed part of Arval, whose owner was a friend of Arbonne�s founder. In recent years, Arbonne�s team has employed several labs throughout Switzerland to take the ideas of the AIRD team, create the formulations, do the testing, and turn them into the products Arbonne then manufacturers in California.
Also, as Arbonne grows, the concept of AIRD is also continuing to evolve. Pierre is now working in a temporary lab devoted solely to Arbonne product research as Arbonne is, in fact, in the process of being registered globally. Additionally, AIRD will soon include chemists from several other countries to contribute to product development and will have their own facility to formulate, test and even manufacture Arbonne products.
I hope this clears it up to your satisfaction and I apologize for my errors.
July 1, 2005 at 2:09 am
>>I don�t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne.>>
Hi Dave,
I beg to differ. They actually do say that AIRD is their private laboratory. This is from a letter that I received from Arbonne:
>>All of Arbonne's premium Swiss Skin Care products are meticulously formulated at our private laboratory, AIRD, where each individual product has a proprietary formula that is never compromised. All of our products are made in the USA by contract manufacturers who follow all strict manufacturing guidelines set forth by AIRD in order to obtain the beneficial properties of the formulations. AIRD is located in Sion Switzerland and is run by Director, Pierre Bottiglieri. Pierre has a long list of achievements and accreditations that make him a true asset to Arbonne. >>
Many Arbonne web pages site the AIRD as being a private laboratory when as we now know there is no such thing as AIRD.
Another web site at: http://www.makeupbusiness.com/arbonne.html says it is a Swiss company that moved to the States: "Arbonne has an almost 30 year history of providing skin care products that are unsurpassed in quality and effectiveness. The Swiss company, founded in 1975 by Petter Morck and a team of biochemists, biologists and herbalists, expanded to the United States in 1980, and from there, became Arbonne International, with a worldwide network of distributors." As we now know Arbonne or AIRD has never been a Swiss Company.
This one I particularly like: "We have AIRD, our own research & development lab in Sion, Switzerland. Yes, we're a Swiss product and that's a BIG deal to a LOT of people. Our lab is headed up by Pierre Bottiglieri who is arguably the leading cosmetic chemist in the world, and has served as the Managing Director or AIRD for over 4 years." From http://beautifulskin4u.myarbonne.com/arbonne/beautifulskin4u.nsf/viewpage/2?OpenDocument&pagename=t5body2.htm
The list goes on and on. I fail to see how you could not see this as deceptive. This company is NOT Swiss and it has never been Swiss.
As I see it: "Arbonne has bought their formulas from Swiss labs and then sub-contracted the production to American manufactures and then relies on private individuals to market their product for them. Arbonne is a 200 million dollar company that invents nothing, manufactures nothing and sells nothing. All based on the half-truth of being a Swiss company selling Swiss Quality." WOW!
July 1, 2005 at 3:14 am
Hi All…
(Off the subject of AIRD) I had a baby 6 weeks ago and wasn't sure I'd be able to stay at home with her. But I am having major success with this business and not only will I be able to stay at home with her, but I am going over and beyond what my corporate job paid me. I was going through the motions of my day-to-day job, seeing the same people everyday, going to the same meetings, sitting in the same break room, working the same hours, driving the same roads, getting the same paychecks (even though my work-load was getting bigger). I have always been shy but have wanted to make a change and meet new folks. This business has forced me to come out of my shell and meet new friends and I am having the best time of my life in addition to making money! Arbonne is a lifestyle! It is a life-altering product as well as business opportunity. I never knew I could have so much fun while bringing in income.
To all you new consultants like me… don't give up! It may take a couple of no-show parties but ultimately you will get there! Don't get discouraged by these folks on here who didn't give it much of a chance.
thanks…serra in california
July 1, 2005 at 6:19 am
I have a question. I am a new consultant and altough I am happy with the products and the results I'm getting, I have some concerns about the company as well. I did a search in the BBB and came up with:
Arbonne International
5411 S. Stonewood Dr.
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
Telephone: (812) 985-9963
The BBB reports on members and non-members.
Original Business Start Date: January 1980 Service Contact: Mrs. Jane Koch , Owner
Local Start Date: June 1997 Employees: 1
Principal: Mr. Dan Koch , Owner File Open Date: June 1998
TOB Classification: Skin Care, Multi-Level Selling Co.
BBB Membership: This company is not a member.
Who are these people?
July 1, 2005 at 8:12 am
I don�t know what to tell you at this point. It�s a matter of how you interpret the information you have. I can agree that the letter you say you received from Arbonne would lead you to believe they own their own lab. But it doesn�t actually say that. It also doesn�t say AIRD is a building. If AIRD is a team of Arbonne coordinated researchers, it could just mean they conduct their business in Sion. Personally, understanding what I know now, I think the letter is factually correct. But I agree it could be misconstrued. As far as the quotes from consultant web sites go, this is a prime example of why Arbonne needs to be so strict with upholding the rules of what a consultant can claim, where and how they can advertise and what kinds of documents they attach the Arbonne logo to. Even Joel�s opening sentence on this board is factually wrong. Arbonne does not now, nor have they ever, advertised their products as �All Natural�. But someone hears it said and passes it along and it suddenly is considered a �fact�.
Bottom line is this: Arbonne products are indeed formulated, tested and perfected in Switzerland by Swiss and European researchers in Swiss laboratories and then manufactured in the U.S. and distributed by independent consultants throughout the U.S. and Canada. Arbonne products incorporate the latest science and technology and the highest quality ingredients to create products that are pure, safe and beneficial to the end user. There are literally hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers who would attest to that.
I realize that I can�t change your mind if you�re so down on Network Marketing so I�m not going to continue with this specific conversation. (And admit that it�s network marketing that you�re against because if Arbonne products were sitting on a shelf in your local salon you would have no interest in scrutinizing them as you are.) All I can say is I love the products and would use then even if I wasn�t in the business. As Arbonne continues to expand and their sales continue to explode it is only a matter of time before Arbonne is a household name like Mary Kay or Pampered Chef. Those who join this business have a great opportunity to build a fabulous income and lifestyle. Right now I�m sitting here looking out the window at my wife�s E-320 and my brand new SUV and I�m deciding if I should play golf today, even though it�s a bit cloudy. I couldn�t do that two years ago.
July 1, 2005 at 8:18 am
Grace….to answer your question, I don't know who those people are, but it's very possible they are independent consultants who decided, or were required by the state or local municipality, to register their home based business with the BBB.
July 1, 2005 at 9:50 am
If I tell you "I have my own private castle in France" what does that mean to you?
To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear… and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.
Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.
My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.
By the way, for nearly three years I have hosted a forum here in Switzerland called �The Swiss Consumers Forum� to give people living in Switzerland a place to discuss things like this. I would like to invite you to join because the conversation about Arbonne is starting to heat up over there too. Your insight would lend some balance to the conversation.
Regards, Ed
As for your wife�s Mercedes and your SUV…Congratulations!
July 1, 2005 at 9:53 am
Hi All,
I am enjoying this banter and comments on Arbonne! As a stay-at-home mom, I am interested in bringing in extra income to help my family. My good friend and I are exploring Arbonne opportunities and hosting our first "party" in a few weeks. Her sister in Denver is doing great after only a few months, and will be flying in to help us.
Can anyone out there offer me some advice on the first few months, and what to expect (within reason)? We are in NC and it doesn't seem to have made much impact here…yet!
July 1, 2005 at 11:22 am
Hi Claire, feel free to email me and I'll pass along my thoughts regarding your request.
Ed, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because you�re seeing it different than I am. I don�t interpret the �Suisse� on the bottle or the �Formulated in Switzerland� to mean it�s a Swiss company. It�s not a Swiss company. It�s owned by primarily by an American investment company and managed by mostly Americans. The company was founded in Europe by a Norwegian, Petter M�rck, and his son, Stian, has a predominant role in running the company now that the founder has basically retired. Arbonne does not advertise itself as Swiss company. They advertise their products as being formulated in Switzerland, which is true, using herbal and botanical formulations that are based on Swiss and European principles and methods. To the cynic it might sound like a marketing ploy, but it is really a statement of philosophy and an indicator of the kind of product it is. For example, most U.S. cosmetic companies use mineral oil as the base of their lotions. You won�t find a Swiss skin care, of any kind, using mineral oil. The Swiss thinking is that mineral oil isn�t good for your skin. When you see �Swiss� it simply means the product, formulated in Switzerland, conforms to Swiss standards. How can it be any clearer?
P.S. I think we're worn this one out. If you agree with Ed, then don't do Arbonne, don't buy the product and keep doing what you're doing and getting what you're getting. It doesn't matter. If you can comprehend the meaning of "Swiss" then I'm sure you're tired of this, as I am.
July 1, 2005 at 12:27 pm
I would guess that profiting from a situation gives you a different perspective. I agree…let's just call it a day on this forum and go our separate ways. Any future readers can make up their own minds.
July 3, 2005 at 11:42 pm
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July 4, 2005 at 1:49 am
Hi Claire…
Good luck on your kick-off party. I too am a stay-at-home-mom (well actually now a work-at-home-mom). The advice I have is this: use the products and get excited about them. When you have a passion for them, people will see that passion and get excited too. Also, use the graham cracker/ baby oil demonstration at your parties. If you don't know what that is, email me. And another important thing to remember: don't get discouraged about no-shows. I have had a couple no-show parties and it really brought me down. But when people eventually start showing up, they usually always buy product. Keep bugging people to come… they never leave the party regreting they came. Remember… don't be afraid you're bugging them. These products really do change lives and you want to help them.
Also… offer rewards in return for them booking a party for you (little freebies like the lip gloss or the hand cream). Don't be afraid to give a little… the result will be a very successful business. Another thing I suggest (if you can afford to do this) is to have people order things and tell them not to pay you up front. Tell them to pay you when their orders come in. That is what made me order my first Arbonne products! I didn't feel like handing money over til I had the products in my hand. And the most important thing….get out there and start loving on people. What got me motivatd to get this business started is knowing that success is VERY possible. GOOD LUCK GIRL! Come rollin' out here to california when you get your new benz!!
[email protected]
May 31, 2016 at 4:41 am
I would love to know the graham cracker/baby demonstration and any other tips you have. I am a new consultant here in Chattanooga TN.
July 4, 2005 at 10:24 am
Joel ~
Arbonne International promotes its marketing as 'network' rather than multi-level. There is a difference and my wife and I are glad there is. Network marketing means that you're not pushing someone else up the rungs. You can pass them up on the ladder to financial success, earn your bonuses and goodies along the way, and continue sharing the business opportunity with others who can do the same (including 'pass you on their way up').
This is an important difference because it allows a more lucrative program – only four levels of management in Arbonne's case. And that's one of the most attractive features of being involved with Arbonne. It's 'multi-level' that's given home-based business efforts a bad name – someone's always pushing you to produce as they realize more income from your hard work. Some programs are so top-heavy that all you'll ever see is other people's butt … you'll never have the opportunity offered by Arbonne to 'make it to the top,' 'go to the beach,' whatever you want to call your desired level of success.
We have a my.arbonne website and are happy to refer our prospective consultants/business builders to it. We have it to show a level of professionalism and expand our ability to communicate with a greater number of prospects. We never intended to make a business of marketing product over the Internet. Imagine, if you will, thousands of wanna-be business gurus clamoring over themeselves with website presence, hoping for a piece of the pie. That's not the kind of business we want to 'enjoy.'
Arbonne is first driven by sharing the business opportunity. The products virtually speak for themselves. It's the personal testimonies of people who use Arbonne products that bring more sales consultants into the fold. The integrity of the brand and the ethical business practices of the growing thousands of consultants will continue to make Arbonne the envy of the network marketing industry.
Thanks for being there.
Dave Smith
July 5, 2005 at 2:33 am
Wow! I never thought my insignificant comments would cause such a stir!
Those who have taken an extremely defensive posture for Arbonne need to take it down a notch. It's the "this is the best thing since sliced bread and if you aren't in it" mentality that chases people away. Sure, the product is good. But it's just creams and lotions… not rocket science.
For those who doubt that people are making serious money, I've got some friends that are doing VERY well. The one who signed me up got her car in a matter or months, her husband has quit his job and there seems to be no ceiling for her income. And I think that is fantastic!
My biggest beef with the company is the way they have handled the online business. They do not offer a level playing field and they sell worthless web services (such as the search engine submission).
My wife does love the RE9 Nutrimin C line…
July 10, 2005 at 4:00 pm
Dear Joel, I just signed up as an Arbonne consultant and received my first order. My complaints are basic. There were no instructions (except on each item) on how to use the stuff; there is no good way to determine the best tints for a customer; there is no return item slip in the box. In fact I had to stay on hold 33 minutes before I talked to someone re my order. My upline person lives far from me and I have to pay for long distance to talk with her. Dotti
July 10, 2005 at 5:50 pm
Well, Joel, I thought your comments had pretty much finished off this conversation, but alas, Dotti comes along and I have to comment. Sorry, I'll try to keep it short. lol
Dotti, Can I ask you a question? Did you sign up to just buy your products at a discount, or are you wanting to involve yourself in the business? Depending on that answer, I would have different things to say, but in either case, your issues are easily addressed.
First off though, you should look online at the Arbonne website under Product Knowlege and you'd find the sell sheets on each product that specifies usage. Under color there's information on the color tints.
Unfortunately with Arbonne growing so fast it's hard to keep up with the demand from callers. I'm sure they are working on hiring new operators to field phone calls, but I've been on hold forever for companies like Dell, Verizon, AOL, Bank of America…and on and on. In the future I'd advise you to email your questions to Arbonne or to your sponsor. Even if you called your sponsor at today's rates how much are we talking? There are LD rates as low as 3-cents. If you talked for an hour we're talking $1.80.
July 11, 2005 at 7:43 am
At this link I have shared my personal thoughts on this.
July 15, 2005 at 3:34 am
It is 3:10AM and I just finished reading this entire page top to bottom, with several jumps to related topics.
I now have 6 windows opened for my girlfriend to read before making up her mind on whether to pursue this thing. ( she asked me to research it at 10PM)I will support her regardless of her decision.
I gotta say, Joel wins here. Dave left me with the impression he was a plant from the "company" and if not, he is way too slick. Too many stories. I just can't trust people like him. (not to say he did not represent himself well, until the whole institute "issue".
Joel, I think we should buy a few recipe's for lotion and lipstick. We could probably find the same company Arebonne gets theirs from, license it, brand it, find a mfg to manufacture it in West Texas where the land is cheap and the cost of living less than California. With this lower overhead, we could sell it for half as much and start our own MLM/NM company that we are the kings of and skate away after a few years to that castle you said you have. I'll buy one next door and we can send Dave a new SUV every year.
What do you say?
My open windows:
July 15, 2005 at 12:47 pm
Hey Junkman…think what you want. Everything I said here is true and I'm not a "plant" for the company, but then it doesn't matter, small minded people think what they want regardless of the facts. I hope your girlfriend makes the right decision, whatever that is, and doesn't regret someday that she listened to you. You're what we call in this industry a "crab". Because you want to pull somebody down and keep them from escaping their situation and realizing their own dreams and desires, just like crabs to each other when thrown together in a bucket. I feel sorry for people like you, I really do. Your arrogance and attitude have probably not gotten you very far and they won't. Arbonne doesn't need you so please, feel very free to stay away.
July 15, 2005 at 8:15 pm
Oh Dave, Dave, Dave
I had to go back and reread my post to try to find out what was said to require such viciousness from you.
I actually fail to see it. But let's see if this causes you to need to take an 80mg Bayer.
1. I posted several sites with pros and cons to Arbonne. Including this one with yours and others who have good stories to tell expounding on the virtues of Arbonne.
2. I never once stated I was recommending for or against Arbonne. I simply said your argument was weaker within this forum. I am merely doing due diligence at her request.
3. You make direct remarks about "how far I have 'gotten' in life, without my making any representation of such or you knowing me. Shame on you Dave. I doubt your 'learn't' that reading "How to Sell Yourself". Perhaps you should do a re-read.
The fact is you and I have more in common than you think and that is probably the reason for your attack. I began with an associate�s degree in Mass Comm and was also in radio. Did you get a degree in radio Dave, or just fall into it?
I however, did not quit radio to go into sales because "I thought I could make more money". Which is apparently what drives you.
I quit because the people around me did drugs and other disgusting things. I made a moral decision to get out. Not to "make more money".
I then obtained a degree in Finance and worked in Oil and gas for a few years. Afterwards, I went back to complete my MBA.
I wound up at, your competitor. Humm, you say your product was better? Guess personnel was inferior since you didn't win? I however cannot claim to have beaten you, as I am much younger than you.
Long story short, Dave. I am 43. I am retired and I expect, much happier than you.
Regarding MY feelings on the Arbonne venture? I did not impose my opinion on anyone. I will now however. And I will give it because I have experience. More, I suspect, than the average reader here. My experience leads me to agree with GetReal. And I assure you no one could have said it better when he said,
"I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves."
I hope you chase that dollar Dave. Chase it hard, and chase it long. But when you catch it you will see that it won't make you happy. It won't validate you.
(Let me just let you know up-front Dave, I am finished, I will not respond regardless of how you bait me. I am finished)
I wish all who are reaching for their goals much success. Sell your Arbonne because you believe in it, but don't be blinded by it. If you can sell lotion, you can sell anything. So don�t fret the future. But only sell what you can believe in. Treat people fairly and you will succeed.
But if you are like Dave and it is only riches you seek, you will in the end be disappointed.
July 15, 2005 at 10:08 pm
Okay..Junkman�don�t post again and don�t respond. Make that a promise that we can hold you to. Please.
Your posts did nothing for the people who are sincerely trying to make a serious decision about their future or to elevate the nature of this discussion. I apologize to any reader who thought my original response to Junkman was too harsh.
The experiences I shared�.those �slick� �Too many stories�..were to illustrate how experiences in other environments and businesses can be applied to understanding experiences in this business. So let me run down why I said about you what I said.
Your first post lacked any intelligent thought or appearance of knowledge as anything I�ve read on this thread. You labeled me a �plant� for the company as if to say I�m paid to sit here and respond to this kind of nonsense and to lie about the company so those really bad secrets you are sure exist don�t get out. You called me �slick� and untrustworthy when I�ve made it a point to spell out my experience with this company in an honest attempt to give people reading a sense of how to succeed; how WE succeeded. You referred to Joel as the author of comments that Ed made and you blathered on about coming up with your own mlm company and buying the same formulas that Arbonne buys..etc. Just plain sophomoric, uninformed waste of anybody�s time. You brought me into your condemnation of Arbonne in a way specifically intended to malign my efforts and my insights in the hope that you would influence readers to disregard anything I said.
I, my friend, was simply repaying the compliment. The tone was well deserved.
As far as your credentials, or mine, they have little to do with the concept of wisdom. Something you seem to have avoided in this endeavor. My satisfaction and reward in this business is not money. Anybody who has heard me train or speak know that. You can take my comment about my decision to leave radio for a higher paying job as being motivated by money, because I didn�t elaborate, but that wasn�t the whole story. The whole story was irrelevant to the point. Just like your degree and job experience is irrelevant to your advice to your girlfriend when you approach it from the view you have. Learn a little humility and comprehend the concept that without first hand knowledge about Arbonne and the people who manage the company and develop the products, you have little that you can offer to someone truly searching; except of course, your negative, condescending, insulting and utterly meaningless comments.
July 15, 2005 at 11:39 pm
I just wanted to say a little about myself and how I think Arbonne has truly been a blessing in my life. I started with Arbonne in the beginning of April. A friend introduced it to my by letting my try some of the products and I loved them. I had never heard of the company before but the product really sold itself to me. I was introduced to the business side of it and it was at a time of real need. My husband was without a job and we took all of our savings out and took a leap of faith. We started this business.
I promoted to the 1st level as District Manager in 6 weeks and received my 1st paycheck as District Manager of $1500. The next month (June) I made Area Manager and am thrilled about my business. In a couple of months I will be expecting to replace what my husbands income was. We have 3 kids and I am expecting another any day now. I also feel greatful that if anything was to happen to me, I can will the business to my family and they will be set for life.
We do this business a little different than most. We don't have parties and we just share the business idea. What I love about this business is that we don't need everone or just anybody to do this with us to earn a significant income. That's why it is so attainable.
I love what I do!
July 17, 2005 at 7:46 am
There is almost always this wording:
"it was a blessing,"
"I started on such and such a date and by this date I became National Vice President!" or some such thing.
"I earned my white Mercedes!"
"I do so much better than I did as a teacher!" (or whatever).
Then it usually ends with the trademark phrase:
"I love what I do!"
The phrases are almost always in that order.
I now actually start laughing out loud when I read that stuff!
I got all rah rah about the Mercedes also. I tried to get others on the bandwagon (luckily my friends are brighter than me) LOL.
RE the Puppy Dog thing, I must admit I don't know much about that system, because when I received the information in my email in-box from the upline, I rolled my eyes and deleted it. I'm sure it isn't what was meant by 'Puppy Dog System,' but the idea hit me that they were saying that I should string people along like puppies popped into my head and that was a TOTAL turn off to me.
Congratulations to those who could make it work, my hat is off to you.
July 17, 2005 at 2:00 pm
You know Darla, people say those things because they are true. When you're a stay at home mom, or a burned out career woman, and you suddenly (in a year or so, more or less) double your "career" income, or dramatically improve your home finances, it IS a blessing, you DO love what you do, you DO get a car you would have never bought for yourself. I know because we did it and I feel exactly as Jen. I'm sure you're not from my area..but you're welcome to request thru an email the link to our team website where you can link to the RVPs on our team and read their stories.
I know Darla from reading your comments on the �Puppy Dog� approach that 1) you have no formal sales training or you would know what that is immediately or 2) you have not been involved or paying attention at all. The �Puppy Dog� approach is a long used sales technique by professional sales people where they loan their product to the prospect with the belief that once they try it, they�ll decide they can�t be without it. Kind of like when you are given a puppy. After a week, who could give it back? Did you ever get an offer for 3 free months of a magazine subscription? THAT�s the puppy dog system. But secondly, Arbonne has required that we not use that terminology and we use now �the Results approach� which, by the way, is right on the Arbonne website. Guess you missed it.
What annoys me with the comments being made by the skeptics is first, they are entirely based on ignorance and pessimism. I�m sorry if that offends you skeptics, but it�s true. And secondly, they are being made specifically for the purpose of impugning the integrity of those Arbonne consultants who have been successful. I read Joel comments and I don�t see anywhere that this was what he intended. His comments and criticisms were made in good faith and about specific experiences he had. That�s fine because those kinds of comments can be discussed and even resolved. But comments like Get Real, Junkman and you, Darla, that are basically saying, �I can�t do it, or I don�t like it, therefore all those who can and do are liars, cheats and losers is unfair and frankly, unbecoming. You expose your true nature with those comments and I have no doubts as to why you failed.
July 17, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Actually Dave, I'm quite happy for the people who can and did do it. Go back and read my last line.
And that will be my last line. I am done. I have a good at-home business, actually. I just believe people should see all sides of things and think for themselves. It is sad that you have to resort to insulting me to try to prove your point. So you have so many customers you have time to write 3 paragraph essays? Interesting.
July 17, 2005 at 6:37 pm
very interesting posts. I thoroughly enjoyed this though http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/tentests.htm
Everything has pros and cons, people will just pick a theory.
Good luck whatever you choose!
July 17, 2005 at 10:37 pm
Darla, seeing all sides of something is not accomplished by mocking the comments from Arbonne consultants who have expressed their feelings about what the business has done for them and their families. And believe me…what you were doing was mocking. There's nothing insulting about what I wrote. Your post showed an obvious lack of knowledge and your lack of knowledge prompted you to make conclusions that were unfair and untrue.
And frankly, I don�t enjoy taking the time, nor do I have the desire, to respond to ignorance. It�s a complete waste of time. Regarding genuine concerns and questions I enjoy the opportunity to share my comments in a sincere attempt to help people out. I can write 3 paragraph responses because I�m working from home, thanks to Arbonne, and I type fast.
July 18, 2005 at 11:55 am
Wow, some of you need to get a life! I started reading this site to help me make a decision on whether or not I should start an Arbonne business and at first the posts were helpful, but now it's turned into such a circus that none of the recent posts hold any credibility with me.
However, after more extensive research which involved many other sites, I have decided to give this business a shot.
Good luck to those of you who have decided to work Arbonne and also to those of you who have chosen other paths. There is something suitable out there for everyone and I'm sure you'll all find it if you haven't already.
July 18, 2005 at 9:31 pm
Hi Everyone,
I am a former flight attendant for United Airlines who has turned to Arbonne for a way out of the "rat race". I love their products, botanically based, no animal by products, no mineral oil, or harmful chemicals. Anyone thinking of joining should go for it!! If you would like a sponsor in the MIAMI,FLORIDA area, email me, I would be glad to meet you.
To all you negative folks out there, best of luck to you too, your going to need it.
July 19, 2005 at 11:12 am
You "get rich quick" people, live beyond your means people make me sick.
Life's not about money.
Oh, and I already made it in the "B" sector.
July 19, 2005 at 11:12 am
You "get rich quick", live beyond your means people make me sick.
Life's not about money.
Oh, and I already made it in the "B" sector.
July 19, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Wow, these posts really got intense. Well, I am also a consultant with Arbonne and I am extremely proud of it.
And I do have a few comments to make,
Arbonne is (as our President, Rita Davenport says) a face-to-face, belly-to-belly company and I am glad it is. The internet is amazing for a lot of reasons, but we should not lose the personal contact and I believe that is what a lot of others in this site are suggesting.
Arbonne has incredible products and yes, you can make the type of money that has been stated. But Arbonne has so much more to offer. Unlike a lot of other companies, Arbonne leads with the heart. We empower others to do something we seem to have forgotten….to dream. My aging mother is living with my husband and I. Arbonne is allowing me to be able to care for her both in person and financially. I have been in corporate America, and if you miss too much time from the office, you then become a liability. It's not that way with Arbonne or Network Marketing. If you build your team strong enough, you can still earn a substantial income, even if you cannot work that day, or week, or month. Arbonne is really a gift.
For those of you who are doubting the validity of AIRD and the money that can be made. It doesn't matter, you probably doubt Jesus also.
I know it can work, I am living proof. I worked in downtown DC at a very large law firm. It took me 2 hours every day to go to and from work, now it takes me 2 minutes.
If anyone wants more information, please contact me at [email protected].
July 19, 2005 at 11:44 pm
hey spunky no one is saying get rich quick or live beyond your means….this is a real "B" buisness and robert Kiyosaki says so himself so i wouldnt say that we are all trying to get rich quick..this buisness is hard and emotionally demanding but sooooo worth it and if you do not have the proper training or emotional stability then you will never get out of the rat race to do anything with your financial future. Im glad to hear that you have a "real B" but saying life isnt about money is so ignorant…without money we have nothing no means for shelter or food or pretty much anything…the poor focus on money more than the rich..the poor complain about not having enough money and thats alllll they think about…so re-evaluate your statement cause it isnt why any of us in arbonne do this buisness! Anyone in miami Fl contact terri she is an amazing person to work with and im so proud to have her as a part of my team in arizona love ya girl 🙂
July 20, 2005 at 10:27 am
Okay, I am an Arbonne consultant and what this person has done is in violation of Arbonne's way of going about doing our business. Why is he allowed to do this, get business from doing this and we are not! His site is still current -this is morally wrong and should be removed!
July 21, 2005 at 12:43 am
I've been researching Arbonne and like everything except the fact that they charge their consultant for "training meetings". Typically employers so not "charge" their employees for a meeting. While I understand that technically each consultant is self employed, I do not understand their logic in charging. Keeping your staff or people who represent your company well informed and trained should be standard, not an "extra". Are all meetings sponsored by Arbonne? Perhaps some are local groups and that�s the reason for the charge, but still�Surely a debt free company can incur that cost right?
July 21, 2005 at 9:06 am
Hi Laura. I'm not sure what meetings you're talking about. Sometimes an RVP or NVP holding local meetings will charge a nominal fee, maybe $5.00, to help cover the cost of the room if the meetings are held in a hotel or restaurant. There may also be some consultants who ask that attendees also contribute to the cost of photocopies made of training materials. Our monthly meetings cost about $275 for the room and we usually do about $200 or more in copies for about 120 people. We ask for $5 from each consultant and guests are free. But we would not turn away any consultant who said they couldn�t afford the $5. Generally we break even doing this. Anything extra we collect is used toward other meetings for beverages or snacks. When our team was smaller, we often didn�t cover the expenses.
Arbonne specifically prohibits charging for training. If your VPs or Managers are charging you for training, then I would point out to them that it�s not allowed. If they�re asking for you to share in the expense of the facility and the cost of materials, then you should have no problem with that. When you get to RVP or NVP you�ll appreciate that consultants share your expenses when it benefits them. Realistically, there is no business you can operate without expenses.
If there's some other meeting your referring to, let me know.
July 21, 2005 at 11:38 pm
Thanks to everyone for a Great read. My wife and I will now go forward with excitement in this new business for us….God Bless!
July 22, 2005 at 8:08 am
Best wishes for great success Jack! I'm sure you'll be happy you made this decision. If you're a golfer, keep in touch. The men often play golf together at NTC and on the trips. There's always room for more.
Just a note of correction. I see in my last post I accidently hit an extra zero and didn't catch it. We usually do about $20 in copies, sometime much more, but not $200. My error. Also, back to Laura: I should have added that any local meetings are not sponsored or paid for by Arbonne. The meetings are held by independent consultants, as you said. Even NVPs are independent and any meetings are at their expense. I'm not sure that was clearly stated.
July 24, 2005 at 8:12 am
My partner and I have been successful in establishing an Arbonne business in only three months. Gay Men LOVE skin care and that market is working great for us! Our business is exploding! Thanks for a great site!
July 24, 2005 at 10:08 pm
Wow! What a heated discussion! I've been with Arbonne for 5 months now, and made district manager last month. My first big check was this month and was $700. So I can't complain. I must admit as with any company, it has its downfalls and frustrations, but I truely feel called to do this and am trying to make this work for me. I've done two parties so far…that's it! I don't like them and am excited to start doing the "results approach" IF I can find people out there to hand these out to! For the ones who say it's too expensive…if you compare to other cosmetics companies, it's really not. Arbonne products are very saturated and it takes much less product, meaning it lasts longer. I also offer every customer of mine 50% off every time I order. I do this because I get more orders this way…people JUMP on that offer! Just another idea…
July 25, 2005 at 7:32 pm
So should my wife and I get in or not? We are sitting on the fence.
July 25, 2005 at 8:25 pm
Read through alot of the above comments. Just wanted to say I have been a consultant since the end of October 2004 and have a "myarbonne" website. The site does not generate much attention. Just enough – to get my personal product free (and I generally get alot of personal product). Not into "begging" friends to buy or meeting a quota. Always very skeptical about anything get rich quick or sell, sell, sell. I do not have parties. Well, I would if anyone I knew had the time or was really interested in a party. Most are generally just burned out by all the candle parties, scrapbooking workshops and home living parties. Anyway, don't have the need once I tell a friend and they try one or more of the products. The most skeptical ones end up trying the free samples I give and become my best customers. Just want my friends to know what a great product it is. And hey, why not make a little if I am promoting a company. I have a great full time business/dream job. This is just for fun for me. My husband & I always want to have a backup plan(job), in case something happens to either his or my business. So if something did happen, for $15 a year, I would be started. Once I find something I like I stick with it. Rarely have time to go to the mall and deal with counter people. Don't shop much on the Internet. Arbonne makes it easy to shop and I generally get my products within 1 week of order. Also love the Christian atomosphere and friendships.
Liked the mention of John Maxwell in another post above. Well, I believe, the only way to make money in Arbonne (or anything) is to believe in it and to Work at it. How much money you make and how much work you do is totally up to you. CONGRATULATIONS to Kim, my upline on getting her Mercedes in a couple of weeks.
July 25, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Stewart, I'd highly recommend you try it. It's worth the small fee and whatever investment you decide on. With the new "results approach" it's better in my opinion. As I said, I don't like the parties. Please let me know if you'd like more help on this. I'd love to help you and your wife. I need to sponsor more! Where do you live?
July 27, 2005 at 11:08 pm
Thanks for all of the posts and info on Arbonne.
It was good to see the pros and cons.
I don't have a lot of money to drop into it and it seems that Arbonne is a MLM/Networking Company I am glad I found this sight. I also do see some intent to deceive with the whole "swiss labs" thing. There are other questions too. We all know the adage "if it seems too good to be true, then it probably is".
I believe if the right questions are asked then the attempt to deceive becomes more clear…
July 28, 2005 at 9:43 am
I just attended a Arbonne "party" and chose to become an independent consultant. I am glad I found this site because it solidified my decision. First, I didn't do it for the money, I was VERY impressed with the products. I've used everything from Mary Kay to Proactive to MD Formulations. None of these products made my skin feel as good as Arbonne. Second, I don't care if the product was formulated in some guy's garage, the quality is AMAZING! I have always been leery of MLM's, but with the low investment cost and a "low pressure" selling technique, just the personal use benefits alone are the reasons I chose to join. If in the future, I plan to expand the business I can. But personal testimonies and visible results are the best way to sell to friends and family and keep their respect.
By the way, I believe that the cost of training is a tax deductable expense (fees, transportation, food, lodging, etc.) but check with a Tax Advisor.
July 28, 2005 at 7:02 pm
Congratulations on your decision Stephanie! Work hard and be persistent and you�ll do great. You�re absolutely right about the products and I�m glad you�re experience was so positive. I share your sentiments exactly.
As for Shirles comments above; I�m not sure what your point is. I know you mean well, but I�d be interested in WHY you think the labeling that says �Formulated in Switzerland�, which is 100% true btw, is deceptive? Please explain because to me you sound like a person who often finds it hard to be trusting of what others say; you�re a cynic in other words, and therefore because you don�t believe it completely then there must be something fishy going on. That�s what I get from your post anyway. And that�s okay but I�d be interested in what evidence you have or what is it about Arbonne that you find suspicious or deceptive?
As far as I can tell, no one here has posted a �too good to be true� portrayal of Arbonne. It�s a great company and they make great products. Is that what�s so hard to believe, or so good it can�t be true? I know lots of companies that are run well and make great products and I�m sure you do too. Is it the income aspect that�s too good to be true? It�s not. Arbonne promoted over 100 consultants to RVP last month. That�s the level where you get your Mercedes. The business works because the product is good and the company is well structured and well managed. It�s not �too good to be true� because it still takes hard work and effort on the part of the consultant to make that money. Too-good-to-be true is when you�re promised you don�t have to do anything to make a lot of money. No one is promising that.
July 29, 2005 at 12:17 am
This is for DAVE…in speaking with a National VP that was attempting to get me involved with ARBONNE, she told me not to bother signing up if I couldn't place at least a $1000 order when I pay my $29. Now, I don't know about you but money doesn't grow on trees for me. Telling me all of the benefits of Arbonne but then limiting me to a $ figure or "don't bother" seemed like this just isn't an equal opportunity for everyone. Yes the product is great but let's take a look at the whole picture. I'm glad it is working for you. My goal is not a mercedes…I have 6 kids to put through college. This just seems too risky and the cost of the products alone makes it a difficult sell. I like it and I will just buy it on EBAY. I don't need to sell it to use it. As far as the "too good to be true", when Arbonne was touted to me as a great thing, I was told all you have to pay is $29 and you can succeed. When delving in a little deeper I learn this was not the case. I wasn't merely referring to only the posts on this site but all of the information I have gathered about Arbonne.
I like to be able to look at myself in the mirror and to sleep at night. Selling over priced skincare (albeit great skincare) to my friends and pressuring them to get involved, so I can move up the proverbial "ladder" of success, so I CAN have financial freedom is just a little too deceitful. Yeah, yeah if I tell them they can do it too the "chain" grows and inevitably we can all have a mercedes right? WE get out of it what we put into right? Yes, but at what cost?
This has MLM/Pyramid written all over it. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.
July 29, 2005 at 7:58 am
I signed up with two RE9 sets as a consultant. That cost me about $470. I do tell my friends about it. Arbonne is honestly good product and you know that. By the way- getting that stuff from ebay-how long has it been in their closet? Do you get a guarantee? Why put something on your face and body that was shipped to you from some unknown place? Who knows what gross stuff could be in those bottles? -just seems risky. Why can't you just buy it from another consultant? What are you trying to prove? The person you don't know who sells it on ebay-which is not allowed but they are willing to risk it – must be connected to Arbonne somehow. You would rather buy it from that stranger than find an honest person to buy the product from?
July 29, 2005 at 9:47 am
Shirles, There�s just so much that is flawed in what you said that I�m tempted to not respond. It�s getting tiring because it seems like the same things just keep coming up. And once again we�re going through this misconception that results in this �since I can�t do it then all of you who can are immoral� attitude. It�s your typical class envy that permeates American society today. If you�re wealthy and successful you must have gotten that way by stealing from and taking advantage of the poor and weak. It�s really sad we�ve come to that as a society. We should be celebrating hard work that results in success and teaching our young people to rely on themselves and not live for a government hand out every time they need something. Arbonne represents an excellent example of how average people can work hard and experience above average success to become self reliant. But some like to tear this down and claim it�s ill gotten.
Shirles, if an NVP told you (and I�m skeptical of that) that you HAVE to start with a $1000 order, she was wrong. However, if she told you that �to have the best opportunity for early success� you should start with a $1000 order, she was absolutely correct. There are at least two reasons why this is so. First, in order to promote to District Manager, which you want to do as fast as possible, you need $1000 retail order under your name. (btw at wholesale it�s $650 out of pocket) This order has to be during your qualification period. And it�s the only time you�re required to buy anything save the $100 monthly order required to receive any overrides. Secondly, if you want to sell product, you need product to sell. Anyone who is planning to do this business seriously needs to be equipped with the right tools or you�re just doomed to fail. What store opens to a lot of fanfare and then tells the customers, �I�m sorry we don�t have anything here to sell, but you can just order it and well call you when it comes in.�? While you CAN just sign up for $29 without a product purchase, and it may be possible to build from nothing, the reality is that it is much easier if you have some product on hand.
Also, Shirles, with all due respect, it�s also possible that this NVP you talked with was, in reality, trying NOT to encourage you to get involved. If you�re so hung up on the cost of the product and uncomfortable asking others to spend the money, then maybe she realized you are not a good fit for this business and was simply trying to set the bar too high for you. I can imagine working with you would be a real struggle because you�re so against the whole idea. I would not want to work with you having read your posts. There are too many people who are happy, excited, coachable and willing to jump right in that I don�t need to expend energy on building belief in someone who will just never look for the positive side of things. If you were someone who really wanted to be successful with this business you would get the necessary product training to understand why Arbonne�s products cost what they do. You�d be confident then that the R&D and QC that goes into these products justify the cost and, in fact, makes them a bargain when compared to the competition.
And finally, we have never pressured anyone to buy the products or join the business. The most successful people we have on our team are the ones who, like us, experienced the quality of the product and realized the potential of sharing the product with a market place that demands the quality and results Arbonne offers. Anytime we�ve tried to work with someone who has a hundred reasons why they can�t make it, it�s been a failure. But I will concede that as Arbonne grows and the word gets out of the financial success being obtained, those who are all to willing to compromise their integrity to get what they want will be attracted to the business. It�s true of any business and unfortunate indeed. It�s why Arbonne has a very strict code of ethics and works very diligently to insure that consultants in the field are not saying things that are untrue. I encourage anyone who comes across questionable statements to call Arbonne and report it.
Yes, it�s very much a sales business and you have to believe in your product and believe that your product offers something your customer wants or needs and that the cost is a fair deal for all concerned. If you don�t believe that then it�s not a good fit and you should find something else. And there�s nothing wrong with that. I personally would have a hard time selling a lot of things, but I don�t consider those who do immoral. (Unless it�s illegal of course) What makes it wrong is when you say because it�s not a good fit for me, then everyone else who is doing it is deceitful, dishonest and a scoundrel. I just don�t understand the bitterness and that�s what I find so unfortunate in this conversation.
July 29, 2005 at 11:38 am
The product/company is not at the heart of this debate. It cannot be denied that many people can and do succeed in MLM. And they are to be commended for very hard work…in a tough and awkward industry. MLM becomes problematic when individuals sell a dream to friends/family that either do not have the skill set required to succeed or an ACCURATE understanding of what it takes to succeed. That�s the bottom line. MLM is NOT for everyone.
Also�Dave. If you are confident in your chosen profession and the company that facilitates it, you shouldn�t have to spend so much their defense. Both should be able to stand on their own.
July 29, 2005 at 11:38 am
The product/company is not at the heart of this debate. It cannot be denied that many people can and do succeed in MLM. And they are to be commended for very hard work…in a tough and awkward industry. MLM becomes problematic when individuals sell a dream to friends/family that either do not have the skill set required to succeed or an ACCURATE understanding of what it takes to succeed. That�s the bottom line. MLM is NOT for everyone.
Also�Dave. If you are confident in your chosen profession and the company that facilitates it, you shouldn�t have to spend so much their defense. Both should be able to stand on their own.
July 29, 2005 at 11:48 am
What you say about MLM is true. The way that it works is a huge turnoff for me for several reasons.
1) Most people are not mature enough to work the business truly looking out for other people. Greed is a huge motivator in MLM. There is the facade of "I have something to tell you about that will change your life", but beneath the surface many MLMers are really just hoping to change their own lives.
2) I HATE the "warm market" principle. The first thing you are told to do is to tell your family and friends. AAARGH! I had a friend call and invite me to a meeting a couple weeks ago. It put me in a position of having to say "no". I don't want to go to meetings. I don't want to hear about the latest pill to make me look like Sean Connery. I don't want to hear hype. And I don't want to be in a business where it will depend on me to pump up others. Been there, done that.
3) Most people don't have the skill set to do MLM. It is easy to get excited about world-changing product and incremental revenue graphically displayed on the white board. It's another to actually get out there and DO IT.
4) I have a business. If I can dabble in something on the side and make a few $$$, I'm all for it. But so many MLMers make MLM their lives. Suddenly, all their friends are in the same business. If you aren't in the business, you simply aren't with the "in" crowd.
Granted, there ARE people who CAN handle MLM. I like to think I know some of them. But the fact is that it is only for a minority of people, but it operates on the backs of the majority in order to survive.
But isn't that what the free market is all about, anyhow? 🙂
July 29, 2005 at 12:01 pm
To Arbonne or not to Arbonne??? Isn't it time you have an awkward conversation with a loved one?
July 29, 2005 at 12:02 pm
John, I agree with your first paragraph almost entirely. But I am not sure what to infer from your second. Let me see if this is your point: I�m confident in my profession and the company I represent; therefore, I should allow all these misconceptions, false statements and remarks that could be discouraging and demoralizing to those parties who read these posts to just go unchallenged? And I would do this because since I am confident and have �made it� I now no longer should care about those who haven�t made it?
Is that what you�re implying?
I�m here defending it for two reasons. First because the company, the products and the people involved in this business don�t deserve to be maligned so viciously. And second, because this site shows up in a Google search which means people who are researching Arbonne are stumbling upon it. They deserve to get a clear picture and a passionate defense from someone who is confident, as you say, in his/her chosen profession and company so that they make a decision about their future from an informed position and are not dissuaded by ignorance or fear or cynicism. The time I spend doing so is MY time; Which, last time I checked, is still mine to do with as I please.
July 29, 2005 at 2:14 pm
An interesting post!
My wife and I have been involved with the Quixtar business since its inception, and with the Amway corporation for many years before that. As someone with a great deal of experience in MLM, and as someone who find research into MLMs interesting,
I AGREE WITH YOU. Most people aren't mature enough to build a company with others in mind. That's why we sing the praises of people like S. Truett Cathy, who founded Chick-Fil-A. That company exists solely to provide jobs to teens in a mentoring environment. If everyone were that mature, our world would be VERY different.
I'm not here to promote my business, or Quixtar. The principles involved are more important than any one business…
1. Any MLM business that requires you to build inventory to get started may be illegal. This is known as "front-loading" and is one of the marks of an illegal pyramid. Such businesses are almost inevitably shut down by the FTC within three years.
2. Any business that promotes the use of the phrase "ground floor opportunity" is likely going to disappear in about the same amount of time. Essentially, you have to imply that the business is a better deal NOW than it will be LATER…so everyone you involve later has less opportunity than you have.
3. Any MLM business that promotes itself as being about A PARTICULAR PRODUCT is in deep, deep trouble. You can't sustain a long-term business using a multi-level marketing model based on 'the next big thing'. Patents expire, people tire of fads, and competitors invent better, cheaper products…or a big news story kills your entire business, as happened to a health-shake company a while back.
4. Any MLM that tells you there's a shortcut to building a network is looking to rip you off. Such businesses are built one person at a time, face to face, and are entirely dependent on such relationships. I've fought any inclination by Quixtar to circumvent that process, and always will.
Again, not to promote my company over any other…but to point out the principles involved in a sound, long-term business model: Quixtar's message is that everyone gets the same deal, no matter what. Front-loading will get you kicked out, and any suspicious activity is investigated as dangerous to all others involved in the business. When one product loses steam, it can be replaced with another…the network isn't dependent on everyone's continued interest in last year's technology.
If you're looking into MLM, I applaud you. If your MLM violates these principles, I humbly suggest that you look to the future, to the well-being of your organization, and to those you have (or will have) involved and get out.
July 29, 2005 at 6:45 pm
Two and a half years ago I probably would not have disagreed with anything you said. My impression of MLM was probably similar to yours and replete with anecdotal examples to back that impression up. Interestingly, in light of Anthony John�s post, most of the complaints I heard about MLM came from people who had been involved with Amway specifically. Maybe because Amway was the biggest and best known early on, but I�ve never encountered anyone who was turned off by Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Longaberger Baskets or Prepaid Legal. I�m sure there were some but, by and large, the people I come into contact who describe negative experiences, such as you describe, were involved with Amway. But I�m not making a judgment about Amway. I only mention it to make a point. And that is this. The impressions you have, and impressions many others have, may be indeed based on real life experiences. I have no doubt of that. But the business and personalities you describe does not reflect at all my experience with Arbonne; which is what this thread was about. If it�s turning into a debate about the merits, or lack of merit, of Network Marketing then so be it. But that becomes a much more emotional, complex and difficult debate. Therefore, I will only speak for Arbonne.
My only comment in response to what you posted above is to say that while much of what you say is probably correct, at least as it applies to some people, it applies to almost any business one might involve themselves in, MLM or not. MOST people who go into business for themselves are not qualified or properly prepared, nor do they have the right demeanor or charisma to be successful. The statistics on small business failures are horrendous. Over 60% of small business fail within the first 3 years and over 75% don�t make it past 5 years. But does that mean going into business is ALWAYS a failing proposition? Or that the 25% who can make it work should not open their business? I guess you�d have us all go work for the government in some capacity? (Actually, I know you wouldn�t suggest that.)
Yes, you�re right that not everyone will succeed at MLM. The reasons are as varied as the personalities of those who try. But it is possible to succeed and as long as it demonstrated to be possible, people who believe they can succeed should have the right to try. And if they fail, or quit, which many do, I would hope that they would learn from it rather than spend the rest of their lives mired in anger and bitterness. I�m often amazed that some people seem to think there is a guarantee to success; that without effort, education, apprenticeship, diligence, patience and fortitude that they are entitled to have everything go just right. I know, people are sometimes lied to and made to believe success in a business endeavor will be easy, and that�s a shame. It happens in other businesses besides MLM. But really� people need to exercise a little common sense, do the due diligence and go about their business accepting that their success is entirely dependent on their own efforts and ability and that being in business, ANY business, is not always easy. And failure, though frustrating and often humiliating, is not the end of the world. It is an opportunity to grow. You can�t pump people up. Oh, you can for an hour or two, but this is why MLM is so hard for many. It�s a personal development program first and foremost. Many people who get into it just aren�t willing to work it and just as many people, unfortunately, are either unwilling to change and become the person they need to be to attract people into their business, or they have a blind spot that prevents them from seeing where they need to grow and improve. We often tell people considering Arbonne opportunity that the business is not complicated, but it may be the hardest thing you�ve ever done.
The other thing that I find to be problematic about your comments as it relates to motive is the simple fact that, at least in my experience, the people who are motivated by greed and selfishness are NOT the ones who are succeeding. The people I know (and of course they are all in Arbonne) who are successful are those people who approach this business with the idea that they are there to help others succeed for the long term. The key to this business is being ATTRACTIVE to those who you want to look at the business opportunity. People who demonstrate the UNattractive characteristics you described rarely get anywhere and especially not in network marketing.
July 29, 2005 at 11:01 pm
1) It will be August in a few days and it's time for Candace to share a pic of the car she allegedly will have by then and more importantly …
2) I think Ed is my soul mate. Ed, are you married? If not, I'd like to cook and clean for you … your posts made my day and I need to pay you back in some small way. I love how you were called out on a wager and asked "how much it was worth to you" to prove an actual research facility (which is not merely a file in another research facility) existed, and then all the sudden "oops, nevermind, but I don't think that should be held against them." PRICELESS!
July 30, 2005 at 6:57 am
Okay…I have to ask. What did Arbonne do to you Kate, that causes you to express the bitter cynicism and sarcasm that you do? Frankly, I think Ed would be interested more in someone whose talents and intellect extend beyond cooking and cleaning, so don�t hold your breath for him to contact you.
July 30, 2005 at 7:26 am
Wow…now I am sure I made the right decision.
Thanks to all of you posted all of the information on MLM's. Sorry Dave, just know that you did what was right for you and leave it at that. I have never in my life been called a cynic. Just because I am not willing to jump into something you do doesn't make my choice wrong. You are right Arbonne and MLM isn't for me, but not for the reasons you think. Thank goodness I realized that before I dumped any money into it.
Have a great life and I hope for your sake you are very successful.
July 30, 2005 at 7:52 am
Shirles…I didn't call you a cynic because you decided not to do Arbonne. I admire you for realizing it�s not for you if you felt it wasn�t right. I called you a cynic for this line specifically: �Selling over priced skincare (albeit great skincare) to my friends and pressuring them to get involved, so I can move up the proverbial "ladder" of success, so I CAN have financial freedom is just a little too deceitful.�
That is cynicism on display. �Overpriced�, �pressuring�, �deceitful�. Those are your subjective opinions and not the experience of anyone I know in Arbonne nor the response I get from anyone who we�ve introduced to the product or the business. I just don�t understand why you label it that way simply because you decided it isn�t right for you. Your tone displays an anger and bitterness and resentment that is unfortunate. I wish you well.
July 30, 2005 at 12:16 pm
Wow…again…maybe you selected the wrong profession, perhaps psychology would suit you as well. My tone displays anger, bitterness and resentment? My husband and I are in stitches!
Better yet, stay with the Arbonne. Leave the diagnosing to the professionals.
I posted what I did to provoke others to think before they do. Yes, mine is only one perspective but if it helps someone to decide one way or the other then I'm glad to have helped. Isn't that what forums are all about? What I posted are my observations and opinions. Yes, I had a lot of questions and seemingly you are so offended by my conclusions that you have to now stoop to your psychological analysis.
Not good sound business tactics. Hopefully, you limit such behavior to forums only. I wish to close this discussion now as I have made my decision. We have made the decision that we feel is best for us.
Just take a deep inhalation and exhale letting it all go. Once again breathe in 1,2,3 hold for a moment and now…exhale. That's good.
God Bless!
July 30, 2005 at 2:19 pm
MLMs are awkard and annoying. If you are in one, please leave your friends and family alone. Especially do not tap in to your "warm" church market.
The main reason I say this is because the bulk of those that get in to MLMs will not make it and will bail out in a very short period of time. Thus, for NOTHING they have alieanated friends and family – causing them to screen your phone calls and scramble to avoid awkward conversations and bad (or frivolous at best) business deals.
BOTTOM LINE: In order to succeed you will HAVE to sell beyond your "warm" market anyway. So, try leaving them alone and avoid the heartache. Start w/ hard work, beat the streets, and see if you've got what it takes!
July 30, 2005 at 3:11 pm
Shirles�Laugh all you want. But with every post you demonstrate my point and betray your attempts to portray yourself as being objective. Your comments are full of emotional responses that have no objective criticism that would be useful to anybody wishing to make an OBJECTIVE and informed decision. (Look up �objective� in the dictionary if you�re unclear on what that means.)
It�s not necessary to be a psychologist to label your comments the way I did. And by the way�.it�s no crime to be a cynic, nor is it insulting. I�m cynical about any number of things in this world and with regard to some things I would wear the label �Cynic� as a badge of honor. In those cases I believe my cynicism is defendable. My problem with your comments is that they display emotion that can only be attributed to resentment or bitterness about the industry, the company, the products or the way you were introduced to them. Why can I make that claim? Because if your complaint was an objective one, you would probably not felt the need to post your initial comments indicating that you thought there was �deception� involved with the company. You didn�t post that you felt the product was too expensive and therefore you decided, on that point, not to do the business; an opinion that could have been debated instructively. You posted that the product was too expensive and that there was DECEPTION�.i.e. some form of immoral activity going on with regard to Arbonne. That was a subjective and emotional response/opinion not based on any fact that you can demonstrate. It was an attempt to sling mud and hope that it stuck. It was being CYNICAL. If you were not angry, bitter or resentful (one, or all three) why the need to launch the attack in that manner?
In your next post you tried to tell the story of your introduction to Arbonne, but again, instead of sticking to the objective facts which I tried to address for your benefit, you threw in that last line, �All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.� Now, you may disagree, but if that isn�t bitterness or resentment I don�t know what is. It�s another indication of your emotional response, like it or not. It�s the �I can�t do it, so all of you who can, or want to, are immoral� response. It�s sad and very revealing. Even a psychologist would agree.
You explained that you have kids to put thru college which means you have a need. Arbonne is obviously not the answer you�re looking for. But it is the answer for many. I see it everyday. I can tell you that to put those kids thru college, meaning you can just write a check for tuition for the college of their choice, you�re pretty much limited to starting your own business. If your salary from a job were enough you wouldn�t have expressed that need. You may win the lottery, if you play, but I wouldn�t count on it. Owning your own business is the only way you�ll increase your income to cover those needs. If you have the capital available to open a traditional brick and mortar store, go ahead. But that�s not easy or guaranteed either. You called Arbonne �risky�. Anyone who opened, or has looked into opening, a traditional business would simply laugh at that characterization. If you know of an opportunity, or find one, with potentially big returns; the kind that could pay for 6 college educations; AND had NO risk, please let me know what it is!!
My point on this board is simply to defend Arbonne against your kinds of comments; the pointless ones based on emotions, clich� and ignorance; and to encourage others considering the business to appreciate the FACTS about this company, it�s products and compensation structure so they make the right decision, what ever decision that may be.
It�s instructive; I think, for those who read these posts to take notice that, for the most part, the criticisms directed at Arbonne are nothing more than personal opinions and old clich�s about MLM in general or emotional attempts to disparage those involved. Any of the objective concerns about policy, procedures, business strategy, products and real life experiences can be reasonably resolved if the party asking wishes to listen.
July 30, 2005 at 5:13 pm
What is pups
July 30, 2005 at 5:28 pm
The term �pups� as you have heard it is likely referring to the RE9 set that some consultants are using to introduce potential customers to the product line. It comes from the �puppy dog approach� sales technique, which I explained in an earlier post. Arbonne is asking that we call it the �Results Approach� and just refer to the products as a �set� or �system�. Hope that helps!
July 31, 2005 at 12:06 am
I became a consultant today. I am excited about sharing this terrific product and awesome opportunity to achieve some financial freedom. I don't want to alienate friends and family and am finding that if I just hint to them that I am embarking on a new adventure, they are immediately curious and want to know more. I tell them I will give them some of the products and let them see for themselves. They know I have no intention of becoming the "Avon Lady" and I don't want to have parties or such. I am hoping that I can succeed, but I have to be honest and say I am a little nervous about finding my 4 or 5 people to buy in.
July 31, 2005 at 6:25 am
PJ, you make a good point. Some who have posted here want to portray everybody involved in network marketing as over zealous and over bearing fools who can�t help but constantly pester friends and family to join their business. I don�t know anybody like that. There may be some, but I doubt they ever become successful with that strategy. As I�ve said before, the key to the business is to attract people to your business by being the kind of person they see as capable of teaching them the business and as someone they would enjoy working with. If you�re a likable, dignified, confident person who makes friends easily, you don�t suddenly become an idiot who doesn�t know how to interact with people. Letting people know what you�re doing is all you have to do. If they like you and trust you they will want to know more about it. If they have an interest they will ask. You don�t need to beg and you don�t have to sound desperate.
As far as your nervousness goes, it�s common and understandable. Learn your trade well and have confidence and you�ll do fine. Remember it�s not a race. Because some have promoted to RVP in 4 months does not mean you have to. Have fun with your business and focus on staying in activity and not on the results. The results will come soon enough.
July 31, 2005 at 9:19 am
I was mistaken perhaps a teaching profession would better suit you…I started reading your post and decided not to finish. I can't beat your words…so let's just let others make the choice. I think you should be a poster boy for Arbonne.
And BTW we are still laughing…your wit and intellect proves beyond me so I will just leave it at that.
July 31, 2005 at 10:55 am
I didn't have time to read all of the posts but I am with you Dave. Sounds likes Shirles has issues that are beyond Arbonne. I applaud your setting her straight. Keep it up!
Are you married?
You sound like you would be the perfect husband.
Getting into Arbonne was the greatest decision I ever made. My husband was 100% against it and because he couldn't handle my choice, we are now separated. Arbonne has changed my life in ways I never could have imagined.
I am financially independent for the first time and well on my way to that Mercedes!
Thanks Dave and thanks Arbonne
July 31, 2005 at 11:17 am
Fair enough Shirles. My intention is not to beat you, or anybody. My intention is only to point out that before people lob insults and accusations; unsubstantiated insults and accusations I should add; they should consider what their motivation really is. I think there are legitimate questions, misunderstandings, misconceptions or misinformation that deserve to be aired�.debated if necessary�and answered in a way that won�t offend anybody. When people post questions or comments in a way that displays a genuine interest or curiosity with the desire to be informed, I hope I can help, along with others who wish to comment as well. But if you want to just sling mud and denigrate well intentioned individuals because somehow it makes you feel better about yourself or your situation, then I won�t hesitate to call you on it.
And FYI Shirles, I�d never be happy in the teaching profession because the vast majority of people really don�t want to learn anything new. They�re much happier wallowing in their ignorance, oddly enough. The ones who are truly motivated to learn and improve often don�t need teachers. They�re almost always capable of learning on their own. I hope you are inspired to be the motivated kind.
August 1, 2005 at 12:17 am
Isn't it absolutely true that the guy at the bottom is getting screwed? Seriously, how could it be otherwise? Someone WILL be at the bottom and they will get virtually nothing.
And the whole institute thing is a riot.
Comon, it's deception pure and simple. Telling half the truth and letting the consumer draw their own conclusion. I'm not saying Arbonne is good or bad based upon that, just that it is pretty funny.
I have nothing to gain or lose either way. I tried Excel and found it difficult to ask my friends and family to switch phone service while ignoring the deals they could get from other carriers. Sure, if they became Excel reps they could have gotten money from their own service but most didn't want to be bothered. And ultimately, I didn't blame them.
I don't doubt your succes. The money sounds nice. But, I don't envy it.
PS, all this "God Bless" crap being thrown about after lambasting someone is laughable. If ou truely mean "God Bless", say "Good luck and God Bless" and leave it at that. Don't be a patronizing jackass.
BTW, God Bless.
August 1, 2005 at 8:25 am
I give up. I am VP marketing/sales for Arbonne. Arbonne sucks.
August 1, 2005 at 9:32 am
Mike, I'm answering you. The above post is NOT from me. Some people are really sick..you know.
August 1, 2005 at 10:47 am
Hi Mike. Your question is a good one and I understand your concern. I should first say that my response is going to be based on my experience with Arbonne only. As I�ve said earlier, I have never been involved with any other network marketing company. The reason was mostly because I had not found a company that offered a product that I liked enough to sell. You have to love your product, believe it offers a solution to needs your customer has and represents at a good value. In my opinion, is HAS to be a product you would buy for yourself, even if there was no opportunity attached to it. Your experience with Excel is a perfect example. The product was not unique and you probably would not have purchased it from them if there was no opportunity attached to it. For me, I wouldn�t have gotten involved either. In fact, someone recently asked me to look at some network company offering internet phone service. I�m not interested. It�s not a product I want, it�s not unique, and if it is such a big deal the competition will be fierce and eventually the big boys, like Verizon, will dominate the market.
Having said that, I like to think of a new Arbonne consultant as, not at the bottom, but at the TOP of their own organization. If you come into the business wishing to build a full time income, then you have to think of yourself as the leader of the team you are eventually going to build. You start by learning from your sponsor how to sell the products and then you get into the activity of doing so. Then you learn to recruit. People who also love the products and respect you will see the opportunity potential and will join you if you invite them and they are so inclined. Then you need to learn how to train and ultimately how to inspire. It�s a process that every Arbonne consultant must go through. Eventually you have duplicated yourself in others and they go on to do the same.
As I go thru this process, the people above me benefit from my efforts, but I have benefited from their experience, training, inspiration, example, etc. Their success has made it easier for me to be successful just as my experience and success with make it easier for those on MY team to be successful. The benefit those above me get is directly related to the investment they make in me, because in Arbonne, I�m not required to buy anything each month. And that point is huge. If my organization doesn�t do anything then those above me don�t get paid either. In Arbonne no one is locked in to a monthly purchase that keeps filling up the garage and enriching those above and that�s why we never felt like we were �at the bottom�.
As far as the Institute thing goes, I think we covered it. I'm not sure what "half truth" you're taking about so I wouldn't even know what to say.
August 1, 2005 at 12:09 pm
I have a friend who is trying to get me involved with selling Arbonne. I purchased some products from her, and I do like them. However, I am also looking into other home-based businesses, many which are MLM organizations. I am speaking with a person this week who is involved with Traveling Vineyards. Does anyone know anything about this organization? If so, how would you compare this business opportunity with that of Arbonne?
August 1, 2005 at 1:33 pm
What an informative site! I am currently considering becoming a consultant for a couple of reasons. First, I love quality skin care and feel I can easily promote it. I get lots of open doors when people compliment me on my skin (so that�s good!). Secondly, I am a top performer at my current company but there is a really, really thick glass ceiling which is frustrating.
I understand that there are different ways to sign up. I would want to sign up under the best deal with the broadest options. I would like any advice as to what is the best sign-up plan for someone that is serious about selling. Lastly, it is possible to have a joint partnership with someone (like a family member?). I have a dual plan that could be awesome.
I look forward to receiving some feedback from some of you Top Performers out there!
August 1, 2005 at 5:54 pm
A friend who's an Arbonne consultant yesterday gave me the impressive 2005 product catalogue with the beautiful orchid photo on the cover. The inside cover credit says it's a Cymbidium orchid that contains "Cymbidium Grandiflorm," a nourishing extract added to some Arbonne products. This, however, is not a Cymbidium orchid, but a Phalaenopsis or "moth orchid." And it's "Grandiflorum," not "Grandiflorm." Google the name and you can find pictures of the Cymbidium Grandiflorum on many orchid websites.
August 1, 2005 at 6:35 pm
KJ, You're correct! I hadn't read the inside cover but, while I'm no expert, I would agree with your discovery of an error. Somebody in the graphics department messed up. It's a shame too because it's a great looking cover, don't you think?
August 1, 2005 at 8:49 pm
Folks, This evening I went on line to look at Arbonne, and after seeing the first couple of Google pages dominated by ads for Arbonne, I found this site's commentary.
First, I am not interested in MLM. I am fascinated from time to time in watching them, but not interested in doing it. Here, however, are some long developed observations:
1) MLM companies often poop out after explosive growth. They are sort of like many entertainers who spend time in smokey clubs or off, off, off, off Broadway for ten years before they hit it big. Then they get REAL big. And then they disappear. They worked hard to make it, but they've lost their appeal. Arbonne is 25 years old. Will it make 30? Lots of these companies explode after a long climb up, and then crash.
2)I have personally known probably 7-8 people who do (or did) MLM. Six didn't make it. Two marriages broke up related (but, of course, not entirely due to) MLM involvement. I saw some people get real religious and start going to church, until they didn't make it big in MLM.The two who have made it are a lady who works for Arbonne, and a lady who works for Longaberger. The Arbonne lady is some level of VP, whatever that means. She drives her Mercedes. Cool. Whatever. Her business fate is yet to be determined. Time will tell. The basket lady has been around for at least 15 years, and still sells her multi-hundred dollar baskets that are built like you can haul coal in them–but we (at least Americans, who can afford to buy such trivialities as decoration)don't haul coal in baskets anymore. If you can spend hundreds of dollars on several baskets just to sit around the house for "ambience" you either don't have money problems, or maybe you really DO!
3)These things are always based on going to conventions, getting the "rah-rah," and then going out and selling. Lately, the trend has been "rah-rah with warm fuzzies." They want to "share" these incredible products. Often they ARE very good products. In their day,AMWAY sold damned good soap! But there were other products that eventually overtook their products on quality and price. They tried to diversify, but who wants to buy a TV from AMWAY? Wal-Mart and Best Buy have them for less, and you don't have to join to get the discount!
4)I agree that there are folks who "have it" and folks who don't when it comes to selling. I think you need the right tools for the right product. For example, the Arbonne lady I know has always been gorgeous! I mean "model" gorgeous. She competed in "Mrs. USA." She's about 50 and looks 35. It's genuine. This is who she really is. You might say she's a "steel magnolia" because she has already been a succcessful business woman. If you look on the Arbonne sight, every one of the VPs is at least what most people would consider "pretty" and some are knockouts. (Except the ONE guy. I won't comment on HIS looks). Perfect people for a cosmetic company. When you look like that, you can sell cosmetics to a rattlesnake! The implication– "You can look like me." The basket lady is about 55. She is a big woman, beehive hairdo, with a loud laugh. Even in her younger days, she was this big "Polish" lady who speaks her mind (her words). She's like someone's grandma or crazy aunt. She's a perfect basket sales person. Both of these gals are outgoing in their own ways, and have the appropriate tools, most of them, inborn natural.
5)People who sell are entrepreneurial (I may have mispelled this–but have mercy). They are outgoing, have the gift of gab, and have a way of winning people. Sometimes they are so "positive" it makes you want to barf. Some of these people really are nice folks. But what turns a lot of us off, is when we get into a forum like this, and the more often than not, the ones who have "made it" treat the rest of us like losers. Anyone with concerns or even fear are derided for being peons who will always be peons because they are "negative." These particular "winners" are snotty and arrogant. I've had MLMers tell me, with furrowed brow and voice of concern, that they are really "disapointed" that I wasn't ready to take (recieve, accept) this tremendous "opportunity" to "change my life." Thanks for the pity. I'll just go and crawl into my borrow now, and eat some grubs.
6)Finally, I have only met two people, mentioned above–who have, when asked what they do for a lving,tell me strait forward that they sell MLM—as in, that's ALL they do. The basket lady is a genuine "lifer." The Arbonne lady has had several successful businesses. More than any other factor, I think this says something about MLM. No matter how good the prodcut, or how sincere the company, MLM is no different than any other company. A few get rich and the rest…don't.
August 1, 2005 at 9:56 pm
Wow..Bill, I felt like I was reading someone�s suicide note. Cheer up buddy. America is the land of opportunity. Not ONE opportunity; lots of opportunity. You can make your own opportunity if you don�t like what you find available. I take issue enough to comment on only two things. (Although, I could write a book if I had the time.) First, while I think all Arbonne women (and men) are beautiful for many more reasons than their appearance, not every VP is a drop-dead gorgeous model type. I would say that 90% would be flattered by your comments but literally laughing at your characterization at the same time. Hey..but if you scrolled through all the pictures I�m glad you to know you think I�m married to a super model. I�ll have to tell my wife some guy thinks she�s hot. (BTW – The other 10% ARE drop dead gorgeous; a fact that has not escaped my notice either. )
Secondly, I�ve never been to a rah-rah type convention, meeting or any such thing. Yeah, maybe other companies do that, but please don�t associate it with Arbonne. It just doesn�t happen that way. That Arbonne is a company devoted to personal improvement is no doubt. But they�re certainly not trying to accomplish it through cheerleading. It doesn�t work. They know that.
Also, to Kpat and Mic above: I�d gladly comment on your posts but I feel like this has become a conversation between me and the rest of the non-Arbonne world. I never intended to dominate this thread and I�m sure some wish I would go away. So I�m not ignoring your questions. If you ask I�ll give you my 2-cents worth but I�d like to see if anyone else has some comments to answer you.
August 1, 2005 at 11:02 pm
Dave, thanks, I'll await your comments.
August 2, 2005 at 12:24 am
Wow, I have been trying to sell Arbonne for 4 months. I have now purchased $3000 + in puppy dog kits, (but of course Arbonne discourages front-loading, yeah right) and have not been successful. I have signed up 10 consultants, and made the person who signed me up into a district manager….great, what about me….I have read everything, listened to the CD's, done Arbonne U, gone to every meeting…Great people make money, not very many!!!
August 2, 2005 at 8:39 am
If you prefer to email me some advice instead of posting it here, that's fine. It seems like you and I may have similar business philosophies. My email is [email protected].
I'll check back here for more info. too. I love hearing the success stories and can sympathize with those struggling too because such is life no matter what your profession. I admire those perseverant spirits.
Thanks again!
August 2, 2005 at 9:22 am
id, I�m sorry to hear that you�re having a difficult time. I encourage you to talk regularly, every day if need be, with your sponsor or upline VP, (since you're sponser is fairly new as well), to see if they can help you identify areas where you could use help or a change in strategy. And be sure you're open and willing to being coached. My advice though is to not get discouraged too easily. Four months is not a long time. It seems long because the rapid growth of the company is helping propel many to advance at record pace, but it was not that long ago that getting to District in year was considered the norm. Remain positive and focus on activity, not on results.
Mic, I won�t comment on how good other companies are compared to Arbonne. I will suggest two things that may help though. I�m repeating something I wrote earlier, but consider these questions when choosing: 1) Is the company financially sound? 2) Do they have a strong and competent management team? 3) Do they offer consumable products? 4) Have they been in business at least 5 years? 5) Are the products unique? 6) Are they priced right? 7) Would you purchase their product even if you weren't doing the business? 8) Is there a large and growing market with demand for the product? 9) Is the compensation plan fair and based on rewarding productivity in sales of products?
If the companies you�re looking at stand up equally to those questions, then I would choose based on which product or service you can be most passionate about. If you love your product and believe in it, you�ll be a far more effective ambassador for it. I hope that helps some.
August 2, 2005 at 10:44 am
Dave scares me sometimes. He sounds really angry and defensive in some posts. My pastor's wife is now trying to get me to join Arbonne so I really appreciate all the posts (yes, including Dave's!!) but I am still incredibly wary. I haven't spoken to my pastor's wife in almost two years and out of nowhere she calls me (no, not to catch up on missed years – we were once really close) but to push me into Arbonne because it could help me get out of debt. WHAT?? I haven't decided one way or the other yet but it sure is fishy to me. I don't doubt AT ALL that people are making money and are successful w/this business but let history serve it's purpose in educating our futures…just like stated throughout this string, MLM just isn't for everyone. Too bad people are trying to push it on anyone and everyone. I wish Arbonne (and others) WOULD tell their people not to start w/friends, family, and fellow churchmembers because, like in my situation, the whole time I was getting the "pitch" yesterday, I just cried. Literally. It was such a slap in the face to not hear from someone for so long and then all of a sudden get an Arbonne business pitch. What a rip. Not that that is Arbonne's philosophy but when you are working to build on an MLM, people are driven to madness. Thanks for all the info. Still thinking…..
August 2, 2005 at 10:56 am
Back to the orchid extract and the error on the catalogue cover photo and the error inside the cover that describes the wrong orchid and gets the name of the extract wrong (or perhaps it was a typo).
What bugs me is this: I want to help out my consultant friend, but before I shell out the money for Arbonne products and switch from what I've been very happy using, I want to know what I'm getting. So I'm doing a little research. And for me, a lay person with a basic knowledge of orchid culture and botany, to spot an error like this makes me leery. The company makes such a big deal about its natural ingredients and botanicals that it bothers me that it didn't get this right. Maybe someone just fell down in their proofreading. But right now I'm not inclined to buy the products. Sorry.
August 2, 2005 at 11:02 am
But Julia, did she end your conversation with "God Bless"? That always seems to fix everything up.
God Bless.
August 2, 2005 at 11:06 am
KJ, I find it doubtful that a proofreader had anything to do with this error. It was probably the hundreds of scientists and white coats at the Swiss "institute" that got it wrong.
Whaddya mean there's no brick and mortar institute in Switzerland???
Or was that the institution??? Hmmmmm…
God Bless,
August 2, 2005 at 11:18 am
Mike, you crack me up! That is the sad truth though. No matter how you spin it or try to deny it, Arbonne (like every other product!) is going to try and deceive the few people who allow it. Honestly, that is a bit disturbing because any person w/common sense knows that Arbonne is out to market just like anybody else out there. They will tell you as little info as you need to draw your own conclusion (in their favor of course) esp. in regards to being manufactured (or formulated..whatever) in Swizterland and then when you say wait a minute! They will say "but we NEVER said it was in Switzerland!" Nevermind the fact that apparently there are PICTURES POSTED OF PEOPLE (well respected even!) WHO HAVE BEEN THERE! So nah nahnee boo boo… It all seems so…multi-level marketing-ish to me. Sigh.
August 2, 2005 at 11:42 am
Well, basic errors like this, especially in such a high-profile spot, come across as careless or, worse, not very knowledgeable about botanicals and natural extracts. I feel bad about not helping my friend and want her to be successful, but I have some reservations.
August 2, 2005 at 11:54 am
"Formulated in Switzerland at our proprietary laboratory (AIRD = Arbonne Institute of Research and Development), our full-line of pure Swiss skin care products are still taking care of all ages and gender's skin!"
Proprietary laboratory = Sink in bathroom
God Bless
August 2, 2005 at 11:56 am
You know, KJ, your last statement made me think of something else… They are BANKING on the fact that you WILL feel guilty if you don't purchase from a friend or family member. That is the bottom line of most, if not all, sales tactics. Well, that and ignorance. I'd say the products might be worth it but all this deceit and sales crap is slowly but surely turning my stomach.
August 2, 2005 at 12:00 pm
Mike, basically I think we should be friends and start our own proprietary laboratory in a toilet somewhere in Gotebo, Oklahoma. We could make it work if we get enough people to be our puppy dogs!
Dog Sselb
August 2, 2005 at 12:38 pm
Hi Julia…
I only sound angry and defensive when the comments of some are intended to disparage people who don�t deserve it and when those comments have no basis in fact. I just find it amazing that people are willing to make up their minds about something on the basis of false information. But not only make up their minds�.they then go on to participate in a discussion on the subject as if they are experts and that no matter what the evidence to the contrary�.they insist they are right! Such arrogance is amazing. (The real fun comes when they think so high of themselves that they try to funny.) If I was standing on the street corner insisting that World War II never happened and that it was all made up, you�d label me a fool. There are witnesses and photographs and evidence to the contrary. My parents lived thru it. Therefore such an opinion would be folly. But those critical of Arbonne say all kinds of things that are untrue and you readily give them your respect. People who you don�t even know! Yet your friend, who admittedly was clumsy in her contact with you, immediately causes you to be disappointed and disheartened; bitter and angry. Why not look at it as her admiring and respecting YOU so much that she thought of you when she discovered something that presented a great opportunity? If I found out where to buy a new car for half the price and I knew you needed a car, but I didn�t tell you about it, wouldn�t you be upset with me once you found out?
I understand that people make emotional decisions about things. I�m only trying to point out to people that if they have an issue with Arbonne then try to discover the FACTS and base an opinion on the facts. And if they are offended by Arbonne, somebody involved with Arbonne, or something specific about the products, then don�t get involved, stay away from that person and don�t use the product. It doesn�t matter. But to take up an offense against something that is not negatively affecting your life, unless you allow it to, is just a waste of energy. There are far more important things in the world to get all burned up over than Arbonne. (Do me a favor Mike�get this angry at the lack of security at our borders and start investing your time writing to your Congressman instead of this site.)
And Julia, as far as the whole Swiss thing goes, if you�re going to allow that to get in your way than just forget Arbonne. Why so bitter about it? I tried to explain that whole thing with Ed. He was right that Arbonne did not have its own facility registered in Switzerland under the name Arbonne or AIRD. But it doesn�t change the fact that Arbonne products are formulated and tested in Switzerland under the coordination of the AIRD team. A lot of companies do business by utilizing facilities owned by other companies and Arbonne utilizes the facilities that are owned by larger organizations while they pursue their own facility. All those companies that LEASE space in Manhattan office buildings, are they not real? The fact is it�s cheaper to rent an office than to build an office building and it�s the same for Arbonne. Up until recently Arbonne did not have the resources to build their own state of the art lab so they leased someone else�s. What�s the big deal? Just like the Donald Trumps of the world build office buildings to provide office space for lease, there are companies that build research facilities to make available for lease. You can�t find any Arbonne document that claims they OWN a lab in Switzerland.
And to Mike, I tried to answer your concerns in an honest and cordial manner. What damages has Arbonne caused you and why the bitterness? Why do you have the desire to waste your time on the subject if you have no genuine interest? Your comments are not going to derail Arbonne�s success if that�s your goal in life�and neither will an unfortunate error in the catalog.
August 2, 2005 at 1:01 pm
Hardly. I'm laughing. A lot.
You're the angry one bud. You're angry because you were been duped in to believing Arbonne actually had a brick and mortar building with 10-12 R&D guys roaming the halls milking orchids and rubbing miracle creams on eager Swiss maidens.
As I CLEARLY stated before, I'm happy for you. I have nothing to gain or lose.
Lighten up Francis.
And, of course, God Bless.
August 2, 2005 at 1:25 pm
And as for me being bitter. I'm nothing of the sort. Not with Arbonne anyway. I've only heard good about the company. I guess I am indeed bitter at my pastor's wife. But that is just because of HER actions. And I'm not acting like I'm an Arbonne expert nor am I hopping on anyone's bash-Arbonne-bandwagon. I'm just participating in poking a little fun at those so over-the-top enthusiastic about a facewash. And you're right, Dave, I definitely think that I was approached because of the potential opportunity but given the circumstances, it was COMPLETELY inappropriate. There's more to the story on that subject but it is irrelevant to these discussions. I was just wanting to hear both sides instead of the one-sided fantastic opportunity ahead of me. Biometics anyone? I'm a distributor.
Thanks for your input though Dave. I definitely think you should lighten up. Don't feel so threatened. And thanks for your humor Mike. The world is lacking…
Dog sselb
August 2, 2005 at 1:46 pm
I figure I'd better at least say hello Julia. So, here it is.
Hello Julia.
And Dog Ssleb yourself.
My wife sold Tupperware for a while and was quite good at it. It was/is a product she loves. I particularly like the fact that they'll replace lids and damaged parts FREE.
I wonder if Arbonne will offer some kind of face lift special if crows feet appear too early?
I won't hold my breath. I'll just use my Vaseline Intensive care lotion and keep the savings for elective surgeries.
Maybe I'll start my own Male Arbonne called Arbeau.
Puppy kits to include gift certificates to Arbys.
God Bless,
August 2, 2005 at 1:52 pm
Sorry Mike, You�re wrong again. I admitted to Ed that I thought Arbonne had a proprietary lab in Switzerland that would be locatable by a specific address listed to their name. I was under a misconception that Arbonne had a permanent place for AIRD to function. When I found out that they have utilized different facilities over the years and that they are not registered in Switzerland as a separate entity, but are employing the use of established researchers to operate under license from Arbonne in facilities devoted solely to Arbonne business, I admitted I had drawn a wrong conclusion. But nothing Arbonne said contributed to that misconception. The fact that Ed was disputing was whether they conduct their research and testing in Switzerland, and they do.
And I�m not angry either, Bud. Perplexed, incredulous, dumbfounded�maybe.
I�m not the one who has been duped and I don�t respond because it offers any benefit to me. As I said several times now, I respond only so those who find this board who have yet to make a decision about how best to pursue fulfilling their dreams are not duped by those who enjoy displaying their prejudice and ignorance so nastily. (As well as their lack of talent in comedy, I might add.)
August 2, 2005 at 2:06 pm
I just saw your last post Julia..and fair enough. I may be a bit too intense in dealing with your comments and I apologize if it sounds that way. There�s so much I could say in response to your unfortunate experience with your Pastor�s wife but I�ll resist the urge. And I wouldn�t be defending her either! There�s no excuse for not talking with you and discovering if there�s a need and a desire first before trying to propose ANY opportunity as a fit. As for humor, no one appreciates good humor more than I do. But I see much of what�s written intending to be funny as being intended to also persuade people to have fear, unfounded fear, about Arbonne.
August 2, 2005 at 2:07 pm
That's what I mean, Dave. You can be kind of not very nice. These aren't personal attacks on you for crying out loud – it's personal opinion about a company. Geez. Why do you turn them into personal attacks? Just wondering… Your posts would be fine if it weren't for the mean comments at the end.
August 2, 2005 at 2:12 pm
Well, that's that. I think, like it has been said a million times in the posts above, that people who are interested in this and think they can succeed, should do it. And if not, then don't be sucked into anything just because of the so-called promises involved. It's just common sense. Thanks again for your help!
August 2, 2005 at 3:21 pm
Dave, great advice, thanks.
August 2, 2005 at 3:43 pm
I can�t resist one more comment to you specifically Julia. So bear with me if you don�t mind. I really don�t take much of what is said here as a personal attack on me. But I don�t respond well to words like �Deceit� and �Sales Crap�; words that you used. �Deceit� to me implies there is a deliberate and immoral attempt to fool somebody. If you use that word you�re attacking somebody�s credibility. Maybe not me, but somebody. And �sales crap� means to me that you�re attacking the notion that there is a legitimate process or approach to sharing the product with people who might find value in it.
Words mean things and if you use them you have to accept that they will be interpreted according to what they mean.
I also would say that nobody in Arbonne should be making any promises apart from what the company authorizes and they definitely do not authorize making promises about income. I have tried to make the point, and probably not very well it seems, that while it�s true not everyone will succeed with Arbonne, it�s not the company or the products that will prevent that success. It might be your location, the lack of effective leadership locally, your own lack of effort or desire or yes, even your personality, but the company and the products are not the cause. Too many people are proving otherwise for that to be the case.
August 2, 2005 at 4:02 pm
Read it. Live it. Love it.
August 2, 2005 at 4:26 pm
Hi Rich…
I read the article and while I'd love to challenge much of what was written there as it relates to Arbonne, obviously this isn�t the place. Suffice to say it makes an interesting argument, but not insurmountable (as it relates to Arbonne) by any means. Thanks for sharing!
August 2, 2005 at 4:55 pm
Hey Dave.
"…nothing Arbonne said contributed to that misconception…"
Yeah, you completely drew that conclusion on your own.
Dave? Dave. DAVE!
Wake up. You're lying to yourself now.
You keep saying you have nothing to lose in this discussion. BS. You have $25,000 a month to lose if people start doubting the validity of Arbonne.
Ed said:
To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear… and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.
Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.
My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.
How funny that you are atteptiing to misrepresent his posts when anyone can scroll up and find them.
You really are too much.
God Bless,
August 2, 2005 at 5:06 pm
I think it's safe to say we know what Dave thinks…and we know what Mike thinks. And God Bless 'em both LOL. But let's move on. Nothing new/insightful has been posted in quite a while. A fun thread while it lasted though!
btw MARY KAY RULES!!!!!!!!!!! haha.
August 2, 2005 at 6:32 pm
The bottom line is that some people always make money at MLM, but many, many do not. MLMs all say they are "different" but they are all fundamentally the same. "Oh, but THIS ONE is DIFFERENT!" Different from what? And why so important to be different? (Not different like "unique," but "not like the others.") I'll let ya'll answer that one for yourselves. MLM is MLM.
In my (only)previous posting, I said that some folks "have it" whatever the paticular "it" is that makes good sales people, and some don't–like Michael Jordan had "it" to be one of the greatest basketball players. There are speciifc talents, sometimes even specific to the particular product to be sold. However, I didn't accuse anyone of being lazy or "unlikeable." This goes to my point about the terminally cheerful "successes" who degrade the rest of us for being "losers." If not making a load of cash and not driving a $100,000 car constitutes a loser, then there is a whole bucketfull of us!—-And I am not suicidal.
August 2, 2005 at 7:46 pm
Mike, Once again you�re making an argument just to be argumentative and you�re way off base with your �analysis� and you demonstrate that with your own words. I characterized Ed�s complaint this way: �The fact that Ed was disputing was whether they conduct their research in and testing in Switzerland�.� You quoted Ed as saying �My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.�
As you can plainly see, I didn�t mischaracterize Ed at all, and you know it. Ed was partially right on one point. He was wrong on the point above. I was partially wrong and I admitted it. And it�s true what I said. I saw a picture and made a conclusion on my own. No one said to me this is a picture of Arbonne�s private lab which they own.
I know you�re very impressed with yourself but you should know that your comments are neither informative nor entertaining.
August 2, 2005 at 7:55 pm
Bill, I didn�t say you were suicidal. I said your post sounded like a suicide note because it was very depressing and defeatist in its tone. Because we�re all not able to play basketball like Michael Jordan, does that mean we should not play at all? It would be a very boring NBA if only Michael Jordan types were allowed to play. Because a certain Harvard med school grad doesn�t become the best brain surgeon in the world mean that he/she should just give up surgery, or even medicine altogether? Come on. You�re smarter than that. We all can�t be the best, but many of are capable of becoming more than we think if we�d just dedicate ourselves to the task. And yes..I do think Arbonne is different. You might agree if you focused on the facts instead of your assumptions.
August 2, 2005 at 10:32 pm
August 3, 2005 at 7:40 am
You're right MIPUS. I should be. But I do a lot of work from my computer and it's hard not to keep checking to see what's next. In a few weeks we go to Hawaii, thanks to Arbonne, so I know I'll stay away then.
August 3, 2005 at 5:09 pm
Hello Dave,
You and your wife must be doing very well with Arbonne – you've got your team working for YOU and that's why you have time to respond to all the negativity that has been generated on this site lately. I, like others, have been on the fence about this company until I met NVP Sibley Gammon. I also personally know others in my city who are doing extremely well in this business. So I took the plunge and received my pups today and plan to follow the REsults Approach to the letter! Can't wait to get started…any pointers on the journey to the road to success would be greatly appreciated. Oh and by the way – to others who may be reading this entry and want to squash my ambitions – it has been my motto in life that in order to succeed in any business you must surround yourself with positive and successful people – so no hurling negative and insulting comments from the naysayers please. Dave, you are obviously successful in your endeavors and present a very positive position. So, with that said…your input is extremely valuable.
August 3, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Oy Vey! Didn't I tell you people to get a life! Ha! I come back to this site every now and again when I need a laugh! And I AM an Arbonne Consultant!
Look, I know people who have succeeded at this business and are driving their Mercedes and getting significant checks in the mail every month. And I know people who have failed or dropped out b/c it wasn't for them.
To each his own! Stop taking everything so seriously and stop trying to convince people to go one way or the other! Can't anyone make up their mind by themselves anymore??? Geez…
August 3, 2005 at 8:45 pm
Hi Georgia Girl! You have a great upline in Sibley and I�m sure you�ll do well. She is a great example, as are many on her team, that it�s not fate that causes you to succeed or not succeed…it�s action; your OWN action. You�ll do great. My only advice is to work the Results Approach as your trained, but never count out the success others have had doing group presentations. Keep that door open because it is still a very viable and effective strategy in the right situations.
To Janea: I don�t think I disagree with you. I�m just wondering in what way you think anyone is trying to convince anyone. I am NOT trying to convince ANYONE to do this business. My purpose is only to defend the integrity of the company against the misinformation that the uninformed post here which may impact an individual�s ability to make the right choice. Unfortunately, the level of nastiness that has been displayed by some has made this effort much more serious than it should be. I do agree with you there.
August 3, 2005 at 10:05 pm
Thanks for your encouragement. I am a firm believer that the recipe for success starts out with a healthy dose of hard work, blended with consistent efforts, tenacity and drive. Twenty years of marketing has taught me that the only way you are going to get business is to ask for it. Sam Walton was quoted as saying "If you don't invite them, then they won't come." My plan is to ask as many people that I know to try the products, not just friends and family, but business contacts, neighbors, my hairdresser, the staff in the orthodontist office, the girls on the tennis courts…anywhere where they know my name and I know theirs. And if they don't know my name, they're gonna know before I leave. That's networking – plain and simple. One person may not be interested – but hey, they know three others who are. It is not easy, you have to be thick skinned and take rejection. This is not news to you, but others who take pleasure in scoffing at a positive attitude have obviously only suffered defeat. I have felt the agony of defeat and many times did not get back up and fight for it. I believe that there is a need for healthier lifestyles and we should be proactive in our health and in our wealth.
All of the crass responses and the "get a life" comments are quite reflective of their own inadequacies and perhaps they just wish they had even half a life!
My life, by the way, is quite fulfilling and very successful. I am blessed with a wonderful husband and a beautiful daughter. My decision to become an Arbonne Consultant was based on studying the numbers, talking with successful people in Arbonne and obtaining a plan of action that has been proven to work over and over again. This website did not make my decision for me – but I do find it very interesting to read and felt compelled to comment. My plan of action for August is to focus on moving forward and growing this business. With a lot of prayer and support from my upline, friends and family – I will succeed. Wish me luck!
August 3, 2005 at 10:24 pm
I am a district manager with Arbonne and I have a book that you all should read. It's called Dare to Dream and Work To Win by Tom Barrett.
MLM may not be for all of you but if you hate it so much why are you spending so much of your time complaining about it? Just go back to your JOB where you work for someone else and let them determine your worth.
Thank you Dave for putting up with these people for as long as you have.
August 4, 2005 at 2:27 am
Whoa Addie… I, too, am a consultant. And I have stood on the sidelines for much of the debate. But I have to speak up about your comments.
Your tone towards those who have a JOB (as you put it) is extremely condescending. There are plenty of wonderful people who LOVE what they do, and whose worth is NOT determined by who they work for. I know of many teachers who would like to supplement their income with Arbonne, but it doesn't meant they would give up their passion of teaching. Same goes for many other occupations.
I must confess that it is this "superior" attitude that turns many people off to MLMers and MLM companies. You are becoming the very thing that many on this thread have said to watch out for.
May I just caution you to reexamine what it is that motivates you. If you are measuring your worth by how much money you make, I'm afraid your scale is unreliable.
August 4, 2005 at 6:11 am
Hi Joel,
You�re right. I know lots of people with jobs who are quite fulfilled and happy. My best friend has a great job as a Senior Vice President for a major power utility company. I guess I�d only question if it�s those people, the happy ones, who are here on a crusade against network marketing and Arbonne. I�d say for the most part probably not. I think you can tell that by their choice of words. People who are content and fulfilled usually have the �to each his own� attitude and aren�t concerned about what other people do to make a living. That�s been my experience I�d say. So Addie is right to suggest they wouldn�t be here wasting their time. But that is just an opinion, I concede.
I�d also agree with your last point as I have often said we are interested in recruiting people into this business who do it because they love the business, enjoy the activity of promoting the products and are prepared to learn the skills necessary to train others to do the same rather than those who focus on how much money they might make. My wife and I love this business for many reasons beyond the income and would prefer this business to our previous business even if we didn�t make any more than what we did with our previous business.
And while I�m talking to you directly, I really appreciate your comments on all the other subjects on your site. I�d say you and I agree 99% of the time. So I�m asking for your forgiveness for my rush to judgment when I first found this thread and I called you a moron. I was wrong as obviously you�re not.
August 4, 2005 at 10:06 am
No offense taken. I'm glad you enjoy my blog. 🙂
As I stated in my original post, I AM an Arbonne consultant. I'm not working the biz because I just am not jazzed about selling skin care products. My Internet business keeps me busy enough and affords me the independence that I desire.
I live in Arbonne Central, the hotspot for the Arbonne craze. There are more white cars in my area than anywhere else in the world. And the people that I know who are working it are doing very well… not all of them… some are struggling. But those who are succeeding are REALLY succeeding.
I have nothing against Arbonne's products. My wife swears by the RE9 stuff. I still think the stifle creativity and are absolutely unfair (and not just a bit goofy) about their Internet policies.
Oh, one more thing. My wife will frequently have to tell me something a dozen times in order for me to get it. So perhaps I am a moron after all. 😉
August 4, 2005 at 10:23 am
Well…I think my wife often complains of the same thing…so maybe we both are morons! Glad to know I'm not alone.
August 4, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Hey, I have had a rude awakening to arbonne…sales people have "infiltrated" our church…it has caused division. I don't think the product is all that bad, but if people are being able to be paid 3,000to 10,000 a month….come on…think..it is over priced! The heavy recruitment is horrible and it has "changed" many of the women involved.
August 4, 2005 at 2:54 pm
Hi Renee�Sorry to hear about division in your church. I�ve never heard of division in a church. (Just kidding of course) I can�t explain how that would happen except to chalk it up to human nature. You know; greed, jealousy, envy, coveting, etc. In a word that sums up the human condition: Sin. It�s shame, I agree. I will tell you this: it is not the money or the promise of money that caused this problem; it is, as Jesus said �The LOVE of money�� Please don�t blame Arbonne. The management would be just as horrified as you are. If you can identify the NVP above these people I�d contact her and tell her what�s going on. I�m sure she�d want to know.
As for your �overpriced� comment, I�ll ask you first, would you like an answer or are you just venting?
August 4, 2005 at 4:04 pm
I thought I was done w/this but the whole church division thing struck a chord with me. It's a no brainer that Arbonne doesn't cause churches to divide literally. But the truth is that MLM tells you to seek out family/friends/church members to hock your product on and THAT is what leads to division. Arbonne sales has no place infiltrating churches no more than any OTHER product. You wouldn't come in and start pushing a sell from Pier 1 on a church member or friend, no matter how good a deal it was! You would tell them about it and hope they would understand the good deal but if they decided they didn't NEED or WANT it, you would move on. With Arbonne (and any MLM), it takes PERSISTANCE and PUSHING to get people to "understand" how wonderful the product is and then an even bigger push to get them on board so others can start making money (including themselves eventually). But that inevitably puts a strain on relationships no matter what kind they are, be it a marriage, friendship, or casual acquaintance. It's just sad is what it is because I can see this leading to a breakdown w/me and the person who is pushing for me to hop on board. It's just unfortunate.. That's all there is to it.
August 4, 2005 at 4:54 pm
Yes..Julia…I concede you're right. It's no different though than if I opened a ..well, Pier 1, to use your example. I would tell you about it and ask you to come by sometime..but I wouldn't hound you to do so. People who do that are weak, desperate and just plain stupid, I agree. Over zealous recruiting is NOT what people are trained to do. They do it on their own and I don't think there's a way to stop it until those doing it realize the error of their ways. You have my permission to blast them! 🙂
August 4, 2005 at 11:35 pm
i've done home parties for years, and the only way to make money is to recruit recuit recruit. it's not about the "sharing the experience" and the "wonderful products", it's about the money! No one does this for fun . . . it's hard work with little reward. People are brainwashed into believing they will make tons of money … when only 2% of people are making the big money the average comm. check is $201. THAT'S THE AVERAGE! So what's the high $ and what's the low $?
August 5, 2005 at 12:04 am
Truth: If you strip MLM of its hallmark activity of continuously reselling distributorships and examine its foundation, the one-to-one retailing of products to customers, you encounter an unproductive and impractical system of sales upon which the entire structure is supposed to rest. Personal retailing is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and awkwardly engage in business transactions with close friends and relatives. The unfeasibility of door-to-door retailing is why MLM is, in reality, a business that just keeps reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.
August 5, 2005 at 8:50 am
Perfect point, Kinger. That is EXACTLY what's going on here. It's just another scheme that can make some people very wealthy, but certainly not everyone.
August 5, 2005 at 9:25 am
While I would love to offer a more comprehensive response to your post, as there are many ideas to contrast your basic point, I�ll keep it to just a couple of thoughts (if I can.)
First, I really don�t think �brainwashed� is the right word. Brainwash means, according to my dictionary, �make someone adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often FORCIBLE pressure. [Caps my addition] Are you really suggesting that network marketers are engaging in FORCIBLE pressure or making someone adopt RADICALLY different beliefs? Again, I�ll speak from an Arbonne perspective, but people are coming into this business basically for two reasons and neither have anything to do with force. Some come into the business because they experience a positive, sometimes significantly positive, result from the products. They, being impressed with the product, understand that many others will react as such and that a DEMAND is therefore created that they can fill as a distributor. In other words, they see an opportunity to benefit from the quality of the products as will their satisfied customers. The second motivation is closer to your point; they see the potential for making a significant income and radically changing their lifestyle. But no one is being brainwashed into this thinking. They are CONCLUDING this is possible based on the evidence, i.e. experience of others who have actually done so. I agree with you the work is hard at times; not complicated but hard, but I also take issue that is isn�t fun. Whether it�s fun or not is based on your attitude. The NFL is back to training camp as I write this. NFL training camp, especially in the heat of summer, is HARD, exhausting and even stressful for the players and coaches, but would anybody say the players aren�t having fun? They�re doing what they love to do. They�re preparing to play a game and make a lot of money for playing it. Yeah, it�s hard. But it�s still part of the fun of being a pro athlete. I went though U.S. Army boot camp. It was hard. It was at times humiliating. But it was, in total, fun! I think people who really want to have a meaningful life realize the most fun is when you are overcoming obstacles and achieving difficult goals. Did you ever play a difficult game? Was it not fun? Wow…there is so much more to say about this.
Also, Kinger, I think you�re wrong on your opinion of face-to-face selling. I think consumers really WANT competent personalized service. They�re just used to NOT getting it. But if they don�t want it, Arbonne offers convenient on line or toll free ordering. We rarely contact our regular customers but 3 or 4 times a year. Usually we simply send an invitation to an Open House or mail a special offer. Our regular customers just order on line when they need something; easier than going to the mall, in fact. (It�s why offering consumable products is so critical) You�re making an assumption that Arbonne customers really don�t want the stuff, they just buy it because they feel they have to, or because they�re helping someone out. My experience is our customers WANT the stuff. If they don�t �so be it.
And lastly, I take issue with your statistics because in regards to Arbonne they are wrong. The averages are on the Arbonne website. If you take those in Arbonne making the �big money� (the VPs) the number is 7% of the total. And the average income, not including retail profits a consultant may earn for those actually trying to build a business, is much higher than you suggest. For those consultants who have achieved the level of District Manager and above, the average is over $9000 per month. But even if you just take District and Area Manager levels, and assume every one of these will never rise above that level, the average is over $900 per month. (No guarantees are being offered here, check Arbonne.com for more info.) $900 a month for many is a pretty good addition with still the potential for doing more in time.
Final thought: You don�t have to be number ONE to be a winner. Denis Waitley says (I�m paraphrasing here) winning isn�t always coming in first. Sometimes winning is coming in FOURTH, exhausted and completely spent, when last time you came in FIFTH.
August 5, 2005 at 9:33 am
But Julia…how is that different from any OTHER organization? I mentioned my friend the Senior Vice President; his income with salary, bonuses and stock options, is over $500 thousand per year. He's getting wealthy..but most who work for his company are only earning an hourly wage and they have no chance at all of reaching his level. And that's the case at EVERY corporation you can name.
August 5, 2005 at 9:55 am
I should have added…the promise of network marketing is NOT equal results. It's equal opportunity.
August 5, 2005 at 1:04 pm
Meet Dave Zug… the objective voice of Arbonne.
August 5, 2005 at 1:51 pm
So C&D… Do you really think anybody cares who I am? What's the point? Why are you so afraid of YOUR name?
August 5, 2005 at 1:53 pm
Objective indeed…
(but apparently successful, yah?)
August 5, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Clearly you stand to gain through the pyramidal structure as more people continue to join Arbonne . So you have a vested interest in defending the "opportunity" here as not to taint the potential downline. The success of any MLM depends wholly on a uninformed population. The last thing you want to see is a forum where people can learn that what you're going to tell them may not be true. Which explains why you never seem to have said enough to make your point. You literally can't afford not to respond to any negative comment posted here.
For all your efforts to distance Arbonne from the negative aspects of other MLM companies, you cannot even avoid using the formulaic, scripted arguments previously developed by those same organizations in your defense of it.
Arbonne tries very hard to appear as the moral and ethical superior to other MLM opportunities in it's initial presentation, but quickly reveals itself to be no different through their subsequent tactics. You are almost immediately fed rationales for doing the very things they claim they don't require or encourage.
You are immediately encouraged to purchase business aids to help you achieve success quicker, as well as $250 worth of product to become familiar with what you're selling. You'll hear about new official Arbonne training seminars starting this October for $75 a consultant. You are offered incentives to purchase inventory within your first two months because of a limited time discount, but of course are not required to. You're told that no business can be expected to succeed without some financial commitment. It is implied that you aren't serious enough about success if you aren't willing to spend some of your own $$$ to get to DM as quickly as possible. You are told to make a "hot" list of 100 of your closest friends and family to pitch the opportunity to. The focus quickly shifts from distributing the "superior" products to sponsoring new consultants and encouraging them to buy RE9 sets to generate income for the upline.
Arbonne is careful to insulate itself from proof that they employ these standard MLM tactics. They only become apparent AFTER you become a consultant and are "on board". That way, people like Dave can deny that you'll ever be encouraged to pay for training, make volume purchase etc… You'll find no evidence of those things on their official site. In fact the amount of space used on their site in trying to overcome the negative stigma should be reason enough to be suspicious. Why did they select a model with no many negative perceptions to begin with?
The goal, of course, is to get the new consultant to generate as much money for the upline as quickly as possible, before they begin to feel that they are spending too much of their own money to be on the "fast track." It's the constant rotating consultants at the bottom that are generating all the profits. You won't find any statistics to at Arbonne's web site to illustrate how much revenue was generated by consultants that only lasted 2 or 3 months, but spent an average of $500 before the quit.
And spare me the "those that fail don't understand the opportunity", "aren't serious about success" , "don't have what it takes". The only reason to use an MLM to distribute products is because you're banking on those failures. Especially since we now know that Arbonne simply bought a series of prepared formulas from Arval Swiss Cosmetics and the right to brand, manufacture, and sell them however they want. It's pretty clear that the product is secondary to the MLM money making machine.
Arbonne is not the first MLM to try to spin the concept into something pure and magical. Yet another way they prove to be unoriginal. They are atypical of the modern MLM.
August 5, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Wow. I think I'm going to print this off to show to my Arbonne shadow to get them off my freaking back.
Thanks for keeping it real.
August 5, 2005 at 4:47 pm
Wow. Now I�m scared! Someone has discovered my secret. I�m afraid people will read these negative comments and the whole company will collapse into dust. You got it!
I actually don�t have to respond to your comments, C&D, because they were just repeats of what we�ve heard before. Nicely regurgitated, but regurgitated just the same. I�m seriously getting bored now.
I wish you people who have taken up an offense against Arbonne and network marketing, hoping to save the world I guess, would do two things. First, tell me how else the average person can build a successful (profitable) business without huge amounts of capital, very little risk, no overhead, no employees and no special qualifications. Give me just ONE possibility? And secondly, if you�re really sincere in your efforts to save the little people from making the mistake of wasting money on a dubious promise, why aren�t you likewise fighting for the elimination of legalized gambling and state lotteries? I�d be pretty sure the amount WASTED, by people who can ill afford it and hoping for that big score that never comes, dwarfs, I mean DWARFS the losses for those who fail in network marketing. Somebody is getting rich off these people. I would think you�d be outraged!!
Okay, C&D, we get it, you have an axe to grind. I hope you feel better now. I�ll look for your comments on an Anti-Gambling blog real soon.
August 5, 2005 at 6:14 pm
I find it telling that your best response it to dismiss what I have posted as not worth responding to. It's becoming evident that's the standard response to any valid argument against MLM. I'll recognize that as an admission that I've hit pretty close to the mark.
Can you really be serious in your pointing out that others have already mentioned some of the arguments I presented? How many times have you posted to this blog? It's likely much of what you've posted came from some Arbonne sales aid, or some motivational MLM success book. I can see YOU read the chapter on the importance of repetition in sales. Everything you've said has a familiar ring to anyone who's been to a "party". Remember Dave, people were making these same arguments to validate those old evil MLMs of the past long before the "new and improved, now with more opportunity" Arbonne came along.
I happen to have a successful freelance business with skills I learned while working at a previous job. I'd be happy to talk to you about how I've found success, but it will cost you $29 to find out what it is. Oh, and I'd really recommend (but not require) you hire me at least once to show me you're really serious.
On the one hand you paint a bleak picture of success in any other endeavor, but then you counsel those struggling with Arbonne by telling them that no business succeeds without hard work and financial investment.
Aside from being an obvious diversion, the comparison to gambling really isn't a relevant response to what I posted. There are more differences in the ways potential gamblers are solicited than similarities as compared to Arbonne… and certainly more Federal regulation. But again, I've heard that comparison before as well.
I don't have an axe to grind Dave. But I've noticed that it's another pattern in your posts to accuse someone of having an agenda if they don't agree with you. If I've never been an Arbonne consultant, then I can't know what I'm talking about… and if I was one and didn't succeed, I have a bitter agenda.
If there is some organized movement seeking to further regulate MLM's, why? Maybe because there is a history of exploitation? Remember, I have nothing to sell and stand to gain in no way from sharing my views. So who's really interested in people's best interests here?
…and if a relative of mine ever tries to "sponsor" me to become a Lottery consultant so that I can distribute "opportunities" to get rich, you might just see me in a gambling blog. LOL.
August 5, 2005 at 6:19 pm
dave, how much does Arbonne pay you to sit and reply to all of these comments? It must be a lot because you continually stay and reply over and over even after you claim to be bored.
Great comments . . . keep spreading the word on these ridiculous MLM scammers! Eventually they will have to share the wealth of the meager "7%" with the thousands of others spending money instead of making it.
By the way . . . ever notice that people that are liars are always sooooo defensive! 🙂
August 6, 2005 at 12:53 am
Yes..C&D..Feel free to convince yourself that what you said was so amazingly profound that I couldn�t respond to it. I was so traumatized by your intellect and �valid arguments� that I could find nothing to say. Go ahead and believe that if it�ll make your day.
The fact is I didn�t respond because 90% of what you wrote HAD been answered to some degree before. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know you�re shocked. Like most of the complaints�.there�s rarely anything new and yours weren�t any different.
I find it so interesting; the strange logic you and your supporters cling to. First, you complain I spend too much time responding [because I�m so full of fear of course.] But then, when I decide it�s pointless to waste my time on the same canned [and lame] complaints�all of a sudden it�s because I can�t think of anything to say! �Why did I not bother to respond?� you wonder. �Can he be serious that my arguments have been made before?� �How dare he!� you proclaim! �Well, it was because I�ve been defeated by your superior intellect and analysis!� I concede. �I am no match for you, it is plain to see!� Oh yeah�and of course my dismissal of your incredible �valid arguments� is the standard tactic of the �evil� (your word) MLM Empire and their co-conspirators. After all, I�ve been lying all the time! Maybe your ego was bruised that I didn�t fawn all over your post and concede you�re right and discontinue my association with the business. I�m sorry. I didn�t realize you were so sensitive. (BTW, can you show me a lie? Anybody?)
How amazing that you failed at Arbonne. Explain to those reading exactly how the company or the products caused your failure; a company that has doubled its sales 3 years in a row. It�s not like they aren�t selling anything. But, it obviously could not have been you. You�re much too smart, so it HAD to be the company. Somebody told you that you should buy some catalogs�was that the reason?
You know, repeating the concepts and truths about self improvement and success that have been passed down from those more capable than I is not new. I would guess MOST of what you know in life you learned from someone else. (Well, maybe not in your case, I forgot, you�re a genius.) These same ideas are taught in most organizations where people becoming the best they can be is a desired goal. I do not see anywhere that I painted a �bleak� picture of success in any other endeavor. I may have painted a bleak picture of IMPROVING YOUR LIFESTYLE if you do NOTHING. Do you know of a business that succeeds without hard work or ANY financial investment? Name one. You can�t. (I�m still waiting for your alternative to network marketing.) Your comments are a distortion and if you were so smart you�d know that. But then they were meant to be a distortion. I DO get that for sure. Frankly, I don�t care about your success in your free lance business. Good for you, seriously. But I know this about you. You�re petty, vindictive and insulting and for no good reason. I did you no wrong yet you felt it was your mission in life to �expose� my identity. I don�t really care, but why did you feel compelled to do that? There�s only one reason. To get even in some way. Did you have fun investigating? Did it give you a thrill to think you might upset me or do me harm with that cleverness? You characterize my comments as being copied from some manual. Why, because in your pettiness you thought that would make what I�ve said here worthless. You can�t be one way one this blog and another way in real life. It�s easy to see why you failed or gave up.
See�I don�t care about your success (if it�s real) because it is MEANINGLESS to me; and everyone else. What you do means nothing because no one can duplicate it. (Oh� that�s right, I forgot; unless they give you some money. Now THERE�S an example of money being thrown away for sure.) What my family has accomplished IS relevant. In case you missed it, this board was about ARBONNE. You come along and it�s supposed to be about YOUR amazing experiences?
And, since you didn�t figure this one out yourself and need help with these things, the analogy about gambling wasn�t for the purpose of comparing the business models. It was for exposing your motives. In other words, there are far more ways for people to lose their money which are vastly more unjust and unprofitable, yet you have no axe to grind with them. You�re mad because YOU failed and you hate to look at yourself in the mirror and see a failure looking back, so of course�lay the blame elsewhere. Classic. (I know..it�s a �classic tactic� to call you a failure. Truth hurts though, doesn�t it? But I�m trying to figure out how I contributed to your failure.) You should read this book by Larry Winget. It�s called �Shut Up, Stop Whining & Get A Life�; But I�m sure you�d argue with him too. The truth of your failure is probably closer to something like this: You wanted the big money; you craved the big money; entertained in your mind the big money. But when it didn�t happen as fast or as easy as you thought it would, rather than try to learn and do better, you quit in anger and bitterness. Am I close? You�ll deny it, but it�s clear anyway.
And, Kinger�yes, you have me stunned too. You�re too smart for me. Do me a favor though. Divide 7 into 100. When you find a calculator and come up with that number, that�s the number of people under you that you need to be fairly successful with Arbonne. Do you think that number is overwhelmingly impossible? Apparently, C&D found it to be so. Oh and nice tactic on your part, Kinger. Call me a liar because I chose to respond to C&D�s nonsense. A very intellectual argument you make with that one.
You both have nothing new to say. And what you said was not as brilliant as you believe it to be. For those reading I do not apologize for my indignation. It�s warranted. Arbonne is indeed a worthy cause, for your sake, that you should not be persuaded to ignore by those who have no interest in your condition and have nothing of lasting value to offer. The status quo may be fine for them, but if you dream bigger dreams you can make them come true. If you believe you can succeed you will! Smarter and more accomplished people than I said that, but my repeating it DOES NOT invalidate those truths. And I�m not just preaching that, I�m living it. It works if you do.
Henry Ford: �If you think you can, you can. And if you think you can't, you're right.�
Robert F. Kennedy: Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.
Theodore Roosevelt: It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
Know this as well: Robert Kiyosaki, Best selling author of �Rich Dad, Poor Dad� & �Cash Flow Quadrant� (and certainly smarter than the unknown C&D), says this about Network Marketing:
�After I dropped my prejudices and began researching network marketing, I found that there were many people who were sincerely and diligently building successful network marketing businesses. When I met these people, I saw the impact their business had on other people�s lives and financial futures. I began to truly appreciate the value of the network marketing system.�
August 6, 2005 at 8:44 am
You continue to attack the attacker and not the attacks, and become more caustic and insulting as you do. It's clear that if anyone doesn't believe in the opportunity, then they are to be lambasted with "petty" and "vindictive" assaults.
You really do nothing to advance your arguments with your behavior.
I thinks it's sad that you don't even realize how desparate you sound. That my dislike of Arbonne doesn't translate into a hatred of you. Try to remove your psyche from the hive for a moment, if you can. I'm challenging Arbonne, not everything you stand for as an individual. Yet, you have become so mean and abusive over something that should only be a small aspect of your life. Are you hearing yourself?
It's not my mission to destroy you or Arbonne. Only to continue to offer an opposing viewpoint. since you seem determined to attack those who disagree, until they leave this forum at least.
I believe your approach and what you have written here says far more about the dangers of what MLM can do to your outlook on life. And just how much confidence and diversion is employed by those selling the dream. So, post on. Insult and dismiss away… because those outside the circle are not to be believed or trusted.
August 6, 2005 at 10:27 am
You amaze me, you really do. YOU started out attacking yet you deny that? No, you don�t. You said that I�m �attacking the attacker.� So you acknowledge you were the attacker first. But in case you�re not convinced let�s look at your very first post which was clearly an attack; on me, then on Arbonne and on network marketing in general. When I responded to your attack then of course I became the one at fault. I�m afraid you�re the one using the typical cheap tactics of those with a weak argument, yet you can�t see it. So here�s the evidence and then I�m going to enjoy my weekend.
Here�s the very first thing you said: (like we need to repeat over and over)
�Clearly you stand to gain through the pyramidal structure as more people continue to join Arbonne . [AND OF COURSE MY GAIN IS IMMORAL, IS THE IMPLICATION. BECAUSE �PYRAMIDAL STRUCTURES� DON�T EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE.] So you have a vested interest in defending the "opportunity" here as not to taint the potential downline. [I HAVE AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE TO PROTECT MY SELFISH, GREEDY INTERESTS] The success of any MLM depends wholly on a uninformed population. [YOU SHOULD HAVE USED �STUPID� INSTEAD OF UNINFORMED BECAUSE THAT�S CLEARLY WHAT YOU MEANT. PEOPLE AREN�T UNINFORMED BY YOUR ACCOUNT. THEY ARE DECIEVED.] The last thing you want to see is a forum where people can learn that what you're going to tell them may not be true. [I�M DELIBERATELY LYING AND AFRAID I�LL BE FOUND OUT] Which explains why you never seem to have said enough to make your point. [I TALK TOO MUCH AND THAT�S A CRIME] You literally can't afford not to respond to any negative comment posted here.� [YOU THINK I�M SO FEARFUL OF YOUR INCREDIBLE INSIGHTS]
Do I need to go on? There�s certainly more to your attack. Unsolicited attack I should add. Of course this AFTER you revealed my identity. You haven�t explained that one yet. And I�m still waiting for an intelligent response to what business you can run successfully without hard work or an investment. As well as the alternative to network marketing. No attacks there. Legitimate questions you can�t answer. But I digress.
So what was my response, �attack� as you call it? To indicate I thought your criticisms had be pretty much dealt with. I complimented you on how nicely you regurgitated the same arguments, but you missed that I guess. I just didn�t feel like going point by point on everything from why you need business aids to how products are developed and where. So you took offense to that and claimed: �I find it telling that your best response it[s] to dismiss what I have posted as not worth responding to. [NOT ACCEPTING MY REASON FOR NOT RESPONDING AND CLEARLY FINDING THAT INSULTING TO YOUR EGO] It's becoming evident that's the standard response to any valid argument against MLM. [AND I TAKE IT YOUR RESPONSE IS NOT STANDARD? AND WHO JUDGED YOUR ARGUMENTS TO BE VALID? OH RIGHT�YOU DID. BUT MORE TO THE POINT, I NEED TO USE A �STANDARD RESPONSE� BECAUSE I REALLY DON�T HAVE A STRONG POSITION.] I'll recognize that as an admission that I've hit pretty close to the mark.� [VERY IMPRESSED WITH YOURSELF AREN�T YOU? BUT DON�T BE TOO QUICK TO MAKE THAT �RECOGNITION�, EVEN THOUGH YOU�D LOVE TO.]
You see, C&D, I�m not hiding behind an anonymous �handle� with no valid email. IF I were lying, I would have certainly protected my identity from people like you. YES, vindictive is the right description of your actions. There�s no other explanation and you haven�t offered a better one. I�m also not blinded by perceptions that are untrue or experiences that cause me to be jealous of others. You may not like what I�ve said, but I�ve pretty much responded to legitimate questions with legitimate answers as best I can. I don�t claim to be an expert except when it comes to MY personal observations and experiences. And how have you characterized my genuine attempts to share personal experiences and observations to the benefit of others who I receive nothing from? Well�let me quote you exactly: �It's likely much of what you've posted came from some Arbonne sales aid, or some motivational MLM success book. I can see YOU read the chapter on the importance of repetition in sales. Everything you've said has a familiar ring to anyone who's been to a "party". Remember Dave, people were making these same arguments to validate those old evil MLMs of the past long before the "new and improved, now with more opportunity" Arbonne came along.�
Sounds like an attack to me. Nothing I said is legitimate because someone else said it before. I guess if I quote the Golden Rule you�d say it�s not valid because it�s been said so many times over the centuries.
Yes, I�ve been sarcastic. Yes, I�ve been unsympathetic to your complaints. Because, frankly, they are not indicative of my observations and experience and, as I have clearly shown, they were intended to diminish MY credibility and integrity as much as the industry itself. Plus, you have so casually disregarded the wisdom of hard work, self improvement and self determination. (How does that benefit anybody?)
You need another example of your blatant hypocrisy? Here it is: ��because those outside the circle are not to be believed or trusted.� But here you are, telling everyone who reads this blog, that I, being �INSIDE� the circle, should not be believed or trusted. You said that, you did. �For all your efforts to distance Arbonne from the negative aspects of other MLM companies, you cannot even avoid using the formulaic, scripted arguments previously developed by those same organizations in your defense of it.� In other words, I can�t be believed or trusted.
Okay�so what have we accomplished? We�ve illustrated C&D�s statements and motives and clearly shown she/he was the �attacker�, we�ve established C&D cannot answer my legitimate questions and we�ve shown quite plainly C&D�s hypocrisy, to name a few. And what has C&D proven? That I�m annoyed with all of that and won�t let her/him get away with it unchallenged.
August 6, 2005 at 3:30 pm
August 6, 2005 at 4:37 pm
Dave, I seriously think you should stop reading this blog. You are so angry that it is totally making you crazed. You have never been personally attacked. People might have something to say against Arbonne but BIG DEAL. You have plenty to say against others' professions. Move on, for crying out loud. As you have stated many times in the past, quit "wasting your time" because that is what you are doing here. People are reading this to get both sides of an argument of sorts and reading your mean-spirited replies is doing no one any good and it's working you up beyond belief. People appreciate a good rebuttal but yours are just….over the top.
I'd say… time to move on and let this sleeping dog lie.
August 6, 2005 at 6:55 pm
August 7, 2005 at 8:03 am
You need to re-read the posts, Mypus. You can love Arbonne. Dave can love Arbonne. Everyone could love Arbonne for all I care but others should be able to hate it if they want to (or simply dislike it) without Dave (or anyone else) telling them they are bitter or ignorant or not successful or not driven or whatever else has been said regarding the "outsiders." I think it is wonderful that you and Dave have found such success, I really do. If you can make it work, absolutely more power to you. But there are good arguments against MLM and there is absolutely no denying that. No one is saying you can't be successful but there are concerns regarding the general foundation of ANY MLM. Big deal. Let people have their beef with Arbonne without freaking out and posting mean responses. It's just so useless. Like I said earlier, if anyone is feeling so personally rebuked on this blog, I think they should stop reading because they are confused.
Good luck to all the successful Arbonne employees and good luck to all the successful employees of other companies as well. That's what makes the world go 'round!
August 7, 2005 at 8:20 am
Hey Julia,
I will accept that your advice is sincere. But I have some problems with what you say that illustrates exactly the kind of thing I�ve been trying to point out to people who post here. Even in your suggestion that I�m too angry and I should go away you reveal your bias, include negative innuendo and make statements that are not supported by the facts. I�m just asking that people, in the vernacular, �KEEP IT REAL.� But I guess that�s proving impossible.
In all my participation here I have only responded to others comments. I did not START any of the �arguments�. So here again, I will respond to what you say. Not because I�m angry, but because you, like C&D, must be completely blind to the meaning of what you write.
First, how can you possibly say I have not been personally attacked? I�ve been called, either directly or by association, a liar (several times), somebody who�s been duped, a �plant� from the company, untrustworthy, a �get rich quick� person, someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc. And that doesn�t include any thing C&D said.
Second you say I have �plenty to say against others� professions�. I do? Where? I�ve never said anything against others� professions. In fact, I�ve said the opposite. I may have reacted negatively to someone who says network marketers should just �get a job.� But I appreciate people who are content in their jobs. I�m glad my mechanic isn�t quitting to go start a home business; likewise, my doctor, my plumber, my daughter�s teachers, the police in my community and on and on. I specifically said we need people who like their jobs. So how do you make that characterization? I just don�t get it.
You may be right that people are reading this to get both sides of an argument. But if so, don�t they deserve to get a balance and clarification of the facts? In all my posts you cannot find one example of me responding in a mean spirited manner when the question or the comment was legitimate and asked without some backhanded comment intended to demean somebody. Throughout this thread when consultants have posted their positive experiences they have been met with ridicule and insult in some form by those on your side of the argument. Is that your idea of a getting BOTH sides?
But I even take issue with that characterization of anything I�ve written. I�m not trying to be mean, although you may interpret it that way or get that impression because of your bias against my position or your bias against network marketing. If you read through my comments to C&D you would plainly see that my comments were intended to be instructive to her, and others, in revealing her true meaning and showing that, in reality, her actions against me and her statements were the �mean� ones cloaked in a polite manner.
If C&D had posted her �beef� with Arbonne in a way that way that would have been helpful, I would not have responded the way I did. But she started her participation here with an attack against me (revealing identity) and then she launched into her long complaint with the clear intention to ridicule. But even then I didn�t respond. I just said her comments had mostly been answered.
I think, Julia, you�re guilty of selective reading. You read what you like and ignore the details of what I write because you disagree. �Keep it real� and whether you agree with me or not I�ll respect you 100%. Lie about me and I�ll challenge you every time.
August 7, 2005 at 12:43 pm
I can see both sides. I think you are sincere in your efforts for Arbonne and I appreciate that. I also think others are sincere in making sure people are not scammed and I also appreciate that.
August 7, 2005 at 12:52 pm
I could not agree more.
August 7, 2005 at 7:10 pm
Hey everyone lets talk about the great opportunity of arbonne lol its sad that people want to put down what we do for a living (arbonne) I dont understand why people like c&d have to go and put us down for doing what we love. This is something that we are making money at are are obtaining finincal freedom! There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with someone being an employee or even a small buisness owner. The idea behind network marketing is simply to build a network of consumers. Isnt that what we all do in our "day time jobs" We network thats life thats buisness. So i think the angry men or women who think that what we are doing in arbonne is wrong need to either find some real evidence that arbonne is a scam or just shut up. This company is amazing no matter what anyone says…and that isnt someone who is brain washed saying this. Arbonne never tells its consultants to do everything they say and become this cult type thing. Once you truely start your buisness with arbonne and keep your stamina which you need in any buisness you realize that this is the best network marketing company around PERIOD!
August 8, 2005 at 11:48 am
Dave, thank you so much for all of your comments. I read your wife's story and I am inspired.
Arbonne is an amazing company with awesome products and I do feel blessed for signing up. But, as mentioned before, it and MLM is not for everyone. I find it very strange, however, that some posts mention the words "scams", "deceit", and "that only a small percentage will make the amount of money" that Dave's wife and others are making in Arbonne. But, that is true in every industry. How many people in most companies make a large amount of money? How many presidents work for a corporation? If I work harder than the president in a corporation, will my checks reflect it? The answer is NO!! But at Arbonne and other MLM, your success is based on you (and those you sponsor). That is not true in most other jobs. If I recommend (sponsor) someone for a position, and they are hired, I may get a one-time bonus, but that's it. No matter how well this person may do in this position, I receive the one time bonus. Also, there is no glass ceiling and no corporate politics with Arbonne.
Arbonne nor MLM may not for you and that's fine. But don't try to dissuade others from even exploring the opportunity. I am sure everyone is intelligent enough to do research before committing to anything.
August 8, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Please do NOT mention Oprah, as there are NO shows set for September for Arbonne to be discussed on any of her shows – nor will "The Gift" be discussed. If you are going to blog, spread the facts! It would be great to have Arbonne on Oprah but for now there is NO show!
August 8, 2005 at 10:21 pm
You serious folks that have a dream,please ignore people like Dave who post their negative out of envy or because they get paid to post.
Protect your thoughts, focus on your dreams, and keep moving ( posted by a dream builder not associated with Arbonne).
August 9, 2005 at 9:12 am
I get paid on my sales, like everyone else. I don't get paid to be reading or posting to this. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion, Kenny, that I'm the negative one when it comes to focusing on dreams. Seems to me anyone reading would get the impression that I'm all FOR pursuing dreams and frustrated by those who say �it can�t be done.� But then I guess I have to get used to the fact that a large segment of the population either can�t read (understand what they read.) or believe whatever they want no matter what they read.
August 9, 2005 at 2:07 pm
This is a must read!!!
Like it. Love it. Live it, is right!
August 9, 2005 at 11:01 pm
I looked up Arbonne products because my wife was recently approached about Arbonne products (trial). After reading the blogs (my wife and I had several good giggles) she has decided that those folks making the big bucks can do it without her help. They may be good products, but judging from what the apparent bonus structure . . . it's apparent that that is why these products are so badly overpriced!! Also we had some concern for those who are so heavily defending these products seem like "Stepford Wives (or Dudes) on Steroids"!!!
August 9, 2005 at 11:44 pm
. . . and a big thanks to Joel for this blog site!!
I just read through the site that Julia provided about MLMs (http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html) and I concur with her that it's a must read for anyone contemplating a MLM career (I certainly am not . . . but many years ago I was involved with Amway and Herbalife). Anyway, after reading what was on that site I could definitely relate to the info.
As for the wife and I, we'll probably continue struggling through life with products prescribed by our doc or if it's an over-the-counter product that's needed, we'll just head down to our 24-hour Wal-Mart.
As for any MLMer . . .good luck! . . . there's a good chance you'll need it!
August 10, 2005 at 9:44 am
Anyone who works the plan will reap the rewards. Period. With any network marketing company you have to WORK. It's up to you how much you work and how you work, but it isn't a 'get rich quick with no effort' scheme. That's a pyramid and pyramids are illegal, therefore it would be inherantly impossible for a pyramid to exist for 25 years or more. The above 'requirements' listed are services that are optional. I choose not to use them and I am quite successful. In my group alone, there is one corporate attorney, two physicians (M.D.) and 14 entrepreneurs who have been highly successful in multiple businesses such as real estate development and financial services. I myself am a biochemist with 20 years of business experience to boot. This many smart people can't possibly be fooled, especially when reaping the rewards of long-term efforts. The caliber of people joining network marketing is highly impressive to anyone who is not busy bashing the industry. Refer to Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad) and Dr. Charles King, who teaches network marketing at the University of Illinois business departement. Other companies using network marketing include Amazon.com, eBay, WalMart and every restaurant you've ever been to. Incidentally, multilevel refers to the pay plan. It's your CHOICE whether you earn based only on your personal sales or if you choose to earn based on both personal sales and network operations. You should all be ashamed of 'going off' about something which you are obviously not informed. Anyone who 'fails' in network marketing is not following the business plan. You have to show up and do the work, like any job. There will ALWAYS be people in every industry who are less than trustworthy, but does that mean that every professional is a scam artist? Absolutely not.
August 10, 2005 at 9:58 am
Hi Ralph,
You bring up a couple of points that maybe I can explain a bit differently to give you a different perspective. However, it�s hard on a blog like this to do so effectively without writing something that is way too long, but I�ll see if I can keep it short but still keep it useful.
First, I can tell you those who rave about the products are not �Stepfords�. I really encourage your wife to at least try the products, either by a sample pack or a full system trial. (You might want to try the men�s products too for you own experience.) Obviously if she sees no benefit after trying the products I wouldn�t expect her to buy it. But most people who try the products do, in fact, report that it makes a huge difference in both the appearance of their skin and how it makes the skin feel. I would also say my experience is that most of the people coming into this business have no previous MLM experience and come into the business specifically because of the profound improvement they experience using the products. But I will add that not everyone is an Arbonne customer no matter how good the product works. If you�re the kind that always buys things according to the cheapest you can find, regardless of quality, than you�d probably not be an Arbonne customer. I don�t mean that as an insult, I just mean some people are happy to get by with spending less and sacrificing better quality. For instance, for some food is food and they�d rather buy a steak dinner at Cracker Barrel for $12 than a steak dinner at Ruth�s Chris for $60 and see no difference. But of course there really IS a difference. Arbonne�s products are certainly premium grade. They use ingredients that can cost 100 times the cost of those Walmart products ingredients so obviously it will affect the price to the end user.
In addition to the cost of manufacturing is the cost of distribution. Compare Arbonne to other companies in their industry and you�ll discover that their cost of distribution is actually lower than the competitors who you find in the department stores. Arbonne�s cost of distribution is entirely what they pay out to consultants and not to advertisers, freight companies, distributors and their sales staff, and retailers (who pay salaries from the profits.) So what consultants earn is not a factor in price relative to comparable products. Every company must get the product to market in some method and I can�t think of a way that would not involve a cost. Furthermore, those in the business making significant overrides are making it on the volume of sales, not from the one sale to you or any other single person.
All of the above is true for any business model and not just MLM companies.
Now, in regard to this article you and Julia linked to, I obviously can�t go thru the whole thing. Except for the beginning discussion on the concept of saturation, the rest of it is pretty worthless. It�s really nothing more than a litany of bad experiences that could have been avoided if the characteristics of what to look for I described earlier had been applied. The writer�s discussion of materialism is misguided at best. I�d love to address the saturation issue but it would take too long so I�ll recommend a book, for those who are worried about it, where this �theory� is debunked very effectively. The book is �The New Professionals� by Professor Charles W. King and James W. Robinson. Even if you just read the sections dealing with the saturation issue you�ll gain a good understanding of the weakness of the argument in the article linked to in the above posts.
August 10, 2005 at 10:01 am
Oh Lord…
Here's the deal – we have a history of MLM schemes that are exactly that; SCHEMES. That is why people are so wary. MLM is a fancy way of saying "pyramid with a product." That doesn't mean that MLM can't work or that people aren't successful. It can and people are. But that's always been the case, even with the infamous Amway and many others. What is so hard to understand about people being wary over this? I don't understand THAT. No one is saying that they plan to start up in an MLM and do nothing and be successful. But the truth is that to BE successful, you have to build a downline to put yourself on the up and up and upline! All I have to say is, my goodness….NAR DUH. sigh. And yes, Joel, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your site. This has been the absolute best thing for me to research this subject and I appreciate it.
August 10, 2005 at 10:31 am
This reading has definitely been a fun read for some good laughs. Yes, I am an Arbonne consultant, have been for 2 years. Love the stuff and am concerned with all the questionable/harmful ingredients in personal products.
I was told in the beginning: "If you think you can do this business, you're right. If you think you can't do this business, you're right". It is all in how you think.
August 10, 2005 at 4:01 pm
I'm thinking of being an Arbonne consultant. My sister let me use the product (using the puppy system). I really like it. I must admit, after reading all the comments, the past hour, I found it entertaining, informative, and yes, disturbing in some areas. Quite frankly, I felt a myriad of emotions. I am also a distributor of Shaklee products – primarily because of the supplements. They are 100% natural. I've been using them for 15 years, and I love them. I and my family have seen drastic results from the use of Shaklee Products. I am trying to determine how Shaklee's products are comparable to Arbonne's products, so I've been conducting my own personal 'research and development' and found that they both have similar qualities. Arbonne is much more expensive, and they offer much less fluid ounces per bottle/jar. Is Arbonne truly better??? How does Arbonne stack up against other MLM companies?Can anyone else offer any more information on the contents of Arbonne products? Are they 100% natural? (My sister is too new to help me, so is her direct up-link). I am one who has highly sensitive skin and have allergies to certain botanicals, so I'd like to know if there's more (detailed) information about the Arbonne products. Thank you!
August 10, 2005 at 6:50 pm
Hi Gloria, I'm sure someone else could answer your questions as well, including the product support people at Arbonne. You should email them with your questions. As far as All Natural goes, the skin care products are not advertised as all natural because Arbonne does use small amounts of certain proven safe chemicals for preservatives. It's critcally important that products that come in contact with the skin are free of bacteria and "all natural" products leave open the door for such problems. Ask your sister if she'd let you view the Product Knowlege modules on the Arbonne University series at the Arbonne web site. Candace Keefe goes over this in much detail. You need to be a consultant to view that area however. Also, your sister should provide sell sheets for any product you'd like ingredient info or they're online as well. The size of the bottle or jar has a lot to do with concentration levels. Arbonne's products are highly concentrated and you may find they last just as long as larger amounts of other products. Best regards as you make your decision.
August 10, 2005 at 8:50 pm
Hi Gloria! I too will agree with what Dave said. Arbonne's products are highly concentrated and it takes much less product than many of your usuals. So, you might pay more, but it lasts longer. Also, I had stated this earlier, but you can purchase products at HALF the retail price if you have a large enough order. I can instruct you in this if you need. I'm not a consultant who profits off of the product sales to my clients. My clients get their product at half price!
August 10, 2005 at 11:29 pm
So, WOW! I have sat here reading all of these postings and found it a bit addictive. I am an Arbonne consultant and have fallen into success. I am still trying to figure out how. My "why" has always been about helping others as the products helped myself and my son with his eczema. To go into this with stars in your eyes seems like the wrong approach to me. I am in this because I believe in it, not to make a fast buck. It is difficult, time consuming and gut twisitng. I would have left already had I not believed so strongly in the products benefits. So forget the BS of all of this. You may get rich here or you may fail. If you know in your heart that you are doing something that is good, and good for yourself,forget the rest. I question this job everyday, but what it comes back to is my belief. I believe in the product, myself and the opportunity. Good luck to everyone!
August 10, 2005 at 11:54 pm
I have definitely been entertained and impressed with the quality of folks on this blog site. Hats off to "Dave" . . . who seems like a real sincere fellow. I appreciated his response to my posting last night. I know folks that are earning substantial income on various MLM programs and while it is impressive, I think many people (like myself) who prefer to go to a retail outlet for their purchases. Let me be clear that I have no doubt that Arbonne products are good. I guess what it comes down to is that if we had to contact an individual for every item we use, it would probably be a bit more than inconvenient.
I'll continue to monitor on how my wife is doing with her trial. So far, she likes them but there is some concern that she will fell pressured to place orders to maintain a friendship . . . hard to explain, but I hope you know what I mean.
Anyway, that's my two cents for tonight. Hope you all had a good one!
August 11, 2005 at 12:55 am
I'd like to take this opportunity to applaud you. I have honestly been impressed with your ability to respond rationally and defend (not because you were asked to or paid to) something that you believe in so strongly (I am referring to the company, product & opportunity). My wife and I have been coming back to read this blog periodically for a little over a month and it never ceases to amaze me how much people have to say here. My wife is Jen, she posted her thoughts and feelings about her Arbonne experience in the middle of July. I, for one, was very proud of her comments and the fact that she so openly shared her feelings knowing that someone would most likely respond negatively (which Darla did in such a disrespectful manner). I also want to thank you for defending the words of my wife, you were right when you said, "People say those things because they are true". I was floored when I saw that her most sincere words were trampled on and disregarded so rudely. I was particularly touched that you were able to defend her position for a number of reasons, #1 we have never met, #2 we are not a part of your direct organization or �downline� if you will, #3 and by far the most important, at the very moment in which Darla was (as I put it earlier) trampling on the most sincere words of my wife, she was in labor with our 4th child (he is beautiful by the way, as were the other 3) and for the past 3 weeks, we have been focusing on what matters most to us (our family) rather than attempt to respond to the petty comments that were made against her and her personal experience. What I am trying to say is THANK YOU & I hope that the most recent negativity in this blog has not discouraged you (it sure doesn�t appear to have) or anyone else who has been reading it. I don�t want you to feel alone in your position, I think that many more Arbonne Independent Consultants of many levels are reading these posts but are pleased with the way that you are responding and therefore do not respond themselves.
As far as our situation goes, (not to repeat to much of what my wife said previously) we do feel blessed with this opportunity at this time. Quitting my fulltime job working for other people (and making them very wealthy by the way, as I am considered an expert in a field in which this company has the market cornered) was a very difficult decision. My wife mentioned that we �took all of our savings out and took a leap of faith�, we did so in order to focus our efforts in other areas not because we had to make a large investment to start this business, in fact it was a very small investment that we have made back many times over in a very short period of time, and it wasn�t anything even close to some of the figures that others had spoke of previously. Arbonne was & is not our only plan of action but with the results that we have seen from her efforts thus far we feel very confident that Arbonne will be a very instrumental vehicle in getting us to where we want to be (no pun intended, I�m not referring to a Mercedes although it won�t be long before my wife gets hers and I am not far behind).
In closing, I just want to say thank you again Dave & have great trip to Hawaii, I�ll be sure to go with you on the next one!
August 11, 2005 at 6:30 am
Thanks Mitch! One of the things we have enjoyed so much about this business is the opportunity to make friends with people we otherwise would never have met. I'll be looking forward to possibly meeting you at NTC in St. Louis and where ever next year's trip is. Congrats on the new baby and give my best to Jen.
August 11, 2005 at 1:00 pm
I have been thinking about becoming a consultant and have read this entire page. So I have read the pros and cons of mlms and I feel confident I can make my choice wisely.
There has been some comments made that I would like to have feedback on.
#1 Can you be a consultant without signing others as consultants.I would like to consentrate on marketing the product.From what I read it seems that you NEED to sign up 4-5 consultants quickly. Will you be terminated if you don't focus on reqruitment?
#2 Can you move up the ladder by selling the products only or can you only move up by signing on new consultants?
#3 Puppy Kits? you give a person a $266 kit, they try it for a few days and hopefully they can't live w/o it. If they can live without it they give it to you back. You give it to someone else to try. Hygenically safe? what if the packaging is damaged? products missing? replaced with Oil of Olay? etc.
August 11, 2005 at 4:13 pm
Great questions Laura! I can't wait to hear the answers too!
August 11, 2005 at 7:25 pm
Hi Laura, As you know I answered your email, but for others who read your note I�ll post some brief answers.
#1 Absolutely no termination for not sponsoring! You can sign up and just buy product as needed or you can buy product to sell at retail. You're never terminated unless you don't pay your $15 annual renewal or you repeatedly violate company policy. If you're trying to build a network to take advantage of leveraging, i.e. getting paid a percentage on the efforts of others you've trained, then you need to sponsor people directly to you. But there's no time table. Marketing the product is the BEST way to signup new consultants and business builders anyway so you might find a great deal more success sponsoring if you're actively selling product. You need to sell product but also be on the lookout for those who would like to do what you do.
#2 You move up based on sales volume in your "successline"; Arbonne�s term for those signed up under you and those signed up below them and so on. If your volume is generated entirely by yourself then you could probably get to District Manager, maybe even Area Manager, but beyond that it would be hard to maintain the amount necessary each and every month without the volume of those under you contributing to your total.
#3 This actually was big issue just recently as the subject has come up. To do the REsults Approach you do need to make sure you pretty much trust the person and know how to contact them. As far as the sanitation issue goes, the bottles having pumps you need to be wiped down with alchohol before transferring to another client. I think someone suggested there's talk of Arbonne making Night Cream samples available in singles and we hope that happens because the Night Cream is the biggest problem since in the normal jar the product is exposed when opened. Arbonne is recommending we use the sample packs for the night cream.
August 12, 2005 at 12:42 am
This is for Joel
My name is Kerry and I have been reading this forum for a few day's. Some of the first entries really concerned me. I am a small business owner. I have owned a small day spa for seven years so I know skin care, and I know business. Also I am an independent Arbonne consultant. I have been selling Arbonne for 6 months, and I plan on selling my busines because Arbonne is much more profitable. The very first entry was about Joel and his misery with Arbonne.com. Funny my husband is a web designer, and he explained to me the MyArbonne sites are for ordering purpouses only. The myarbonne sites are not designed to bring traffic to you. Why would I want my leads going online to shop,and getting your site? It would be like the person with the best server get's the most business. You can't build a business by steeling other peoples leads. I am so thankful for all the rules Arbonne makes. The rules protect my team from being side swiped by people like Joel. When you all chat in this forum be aware of who is making money from his advertisers because of you. The guy who started this forum does not like Arbonne. Also Joel, It is so funny that you think Arbonne is expensive. Being in the skin care profession that sounds hilariouse. Never under estimate your clientele. My clients are use to spending $300 for one serum. The six month supply of Re9 for $266 is an incredible price for what you get. Just for the record My Arbonne business has been built outside my spa business because of the rules. I really like going to peoples homes and teaching classes. It is better to sell to 10 at a time rather than one at a time. Joel, Arbonne made a few dollars from you with that site, but to pay a web designer to do what everyone has with the myarbonne would cost more than they are paying to Arbonne. My husband is $100 an hour so add it up yourself.
To all you arbonne lovers sore, and fly. I will be rvp in just a few months, and plan on buying a second home in Hawaii, and I still have all my friends. They like that I sell Arbonne because they get a discount.
August 12, 2005 at 2:13 am
I am happy for your success with Arbonne. But I need to set the record straight on a few things.
I NEVER said I didn't like Arbonne! I said that I didn't like the way they run their business online. How so?
1) I was told by an NVP that I could create a web site to sell. Turned out to be wrong.
2) Early consultants have been allowed to continue creating their own sites, creating an unfair advantage.
3) Arbonne takes money from people for a service that they cannot use. (search engine submission, etc…)
Arbonne IS expensive. And it has to be in order for the business model to survive. But I don't begrudge them that. I buy the stuff for my wife and she loves it!
Finally, it would not be STEALING leads to build a quality site to promote Arbonne as a business and product. It would be the free market allowing those who perform best to reap the rewards. It has nothing to do with the "best servers". It has to do with marketing.
If you are servicing your customers properly, why would they come to my site? Building a quality Arbonne site is about getting NEW customers.
Anyhow, I just wanted to make things clear.
Congratulations on your upcoming Hawaiian residence. I'm sure you've worked hard for it and it will undoubtedly be a great second home.
August 12, 2005 at 3:40 pm
Just a quick response to Ralph:
"Let me be clear that I have no doubt that Arbonne products are good. I guess what it comes down to is that if we had to contact an individual for every item we use, it would probably be a bit more than inconvenient."
Actually, if you sign up as a wholesale buyer, you don't have to contact someone every time you wanted to place an order, you can just order the products online yourself. I think you can even do that without signing up as a wholesale buyer. Not trying to influence your decision, just wanted to clarify the process.
August 12, 2005 at 7:13 pm
Arbonne consultants,
My boyfriend's ex-wife has just started mentioning her Arbonne experience to us. She gave me some samples last night, and I just tried them today, so no official results yet in what I think, but I'm sure I'll like them.
We are considering getting involved, but here are my questions:
1. I'm still foggy on the sales only aspect. Can you only make money with sales-only if you are selling retail? Meaning, if I sell to someone and get them to sign up to get the discount, I won't receive commission on their purchases? Please clear that one up for me.
2. There's all this talk of area. If I'm going to interest some of my friends or family, they all live in other areas of the state, and some even further. Do they get sponsored by someone more local to them? Is the area thing figurative rather than physical?
3. I understand that the point of the car is the pride of the achievement and all, but I'm really not interested in it. I'm just not a car person. Is there an alternative compensation?
Feel free to email me with responses.
Dave, stop writing the diatribes responding to the naysayers. If people are turned off by the idea, they will say whatever it takes to bash it and get under the believers' skin. They have accomplished that with you, and by responding, you are only proving that your buttons have been pushed and fueling their fire. Those of us who are interested in getting factual information will weed the gossip from the truth and make up our own minds on whether it is for us or not. Just had to get that in there, you're doing a great job explaining things otherwise!
August 12, 2005 at 10:32 pm
You obviously have an agenda because when I tried to email you, it went right into your own "home based business". Shame on you for mocking those who have succeeded in Arbonne and it is a blessing (of course using those words "a blessing") in the USA has become cause for the ACLU to investigate. To Joel and junkman or whatever you call yourself, the last time I checked we live in America and there is freedom of speech, we encourage capitolism and success and I say more power to any and all of you that have the guts and the stick-to-itive-ness to follow their dream, whether it be Arbonne or anything else.
August 12, 2005 at 10:38 pm
Can't we all just get along?? The problem with most people is that they are unhappy with thier life and their job. Living pay check to pay check. What is wrong with taking a risk (and a very small financial risk at that) as compared to owning other types of business'. Please people dare to dream and have the guts to follow your dream. God Bless America!
August 13, 2005 at 9:26 am
Hi Leah,
I appreciate your comments and I understand your point of view. The point of my �diatribes� is simply to let the critics know that while there may be questions and concerns it�s not necessary to attack or ridicule somebody. I�m convinced that most of the time they don�t even realize that�s what they are doing unless you spell it out for them. I�m sure you�re savvy enough to know what is valuable and what is nonsense but I�m not sure that is true for everyone. Anyway�I�ll keep your advice in mind.
Now..to answer your questions:
1. You make retail profits if you sell direct to your client. You make what ever you charge above what it cost you. Your cost is 35% off the catalog prices. If you sign that person up then they buy at the same 35% discount and you make an override on their purchases. Without getting into all the details, it�s 4% as a consultant, 8% if you�re a District Manager, 14% at Area Mgr and 17% at Regional VP. You also make overrides on what that person sells. The overrides seem small, but it adds up fast if your creating a network under you. If you�re just interested in a couple hundred extra each month then sell at retail and provide good service to your clients.
2. There�s no territories. I�m sure the �area� thing you mentioned is the Area Manager Level. You reach that level and make 14% overrides on those in your �area�, but they can live anywhere. I�d sign your friends and family up under you and if they want to do the business you can find them meetings to attend in their area for training if they want to go.
3. The Mercedes is a bonus program for Regional and National Vice Presidents. You don�t have to participate but if you don�t there�s no other compensation for that bonus. The car is a symbol of your achievement, yes, but it is also a tool to demonstrate that it can be achieved for all those under you who are working to get to RVP. Personally, I can tell you that the car is no big deal for us either and it�s not even my favorite car, but I can tell you that once we GOT the car our business grew much faster. Now when you come to our meetings and see 7 or 8 white Mercedes in the parking lot, it�s impressive. Our team and a side line nation are holding a weekend Area Manager�s retreat this weekend and the hotel parking lot had over 15 white Mercedes parked in it when I got there and that wasn�t all of them expected to be there. Two years ago in my state there was only one. It definitely works and it is a very nice car.
August 13, 2005 at 7:50 pm
One bad thing about this company is the Atrocious shipping charges.
1 little 2 ounce tube of oil was 7.00 to ship.
We still havent recieved our product and
our show was closed 12 days ago.
I could could order pampered chef and that shipping would cover a whole collection of stones and pots for only 3.25 and we always recieve it in days.
Everyone at the show we went to are furious. Most will be returning their items.
August 13, 2005 at 9:28 pm
I came upon this blog researching Arbonne for someone close to me who heard about it over lunch with some of her friends from work. It is easy to see how many of the posters here can spend tons of time responding and writing back and forth since my read began a while ago and I know realize three hours have elapsed. I must say that there have been some postings that have caused me to laugh aloud, more so even than I have outside of a movie theater during a comedy, but I do wish some of the negativity would cease. I respect each person's opinions and ways of viewing the issue. I do hope that everyone here reaches their goals and finds what it is they are looking for. I have my own opinions on MLMs from personal experience and I appreciate the personal stories from each person that has posted regardless of their opinion. As an aside, Robert Kiyosaki's name has come up a couple times and when I did a quick Wikipedia search, I spent another two hours reading the cause for and against his writings. Take a look at this and draw your own conclusions after reading Tom Reed's opinion and Kiyosaki's response to it, plus an article from Hawaii Business Magazine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
Thanks to everyone for providing interesting information to share with my friend and to help in her deliberations regarding Arbonne.
August 13, 2005 at 10:10 pm
Sorry, folks…that was JOHN T. Reed's opinion above and not Tom Reed.
August 13, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Bill, there was a computer system upgrade at Arbonne the first of Aug. The shipping has been slow due to this, and there was a "glitch" causing some shipped orders to be incomplete of all ordered products. Hang in there…they're working on it. Sorry to hear about your problem!
August 15, 2005 at 8:37 am
I used to be involved with Arbonne, until the dangling carrot ruined friendships and has come into our church faster than sharing Jesus with the lost.
August 15, 2005 at 12:53 pm
That's the worst part of it all.
August 15, 2005 at 1:38 pm
I'm just curious, how did it ruin friendships at church? Were consultants competing with eachother?
August 15, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Just commenting on MN's post regarding Arbonne in the church…
Our church has TONS of Arbonne consultants… many managers.. white cars.. we're pretty much THE hotspot for Arbonne.
A couple months ago, our pastor made a comment from the pulpit that he had noticed a spirit of materialism in the church, and that this time is was coming from some of the women in our church.
I'm not saying he is right or wrong, and I'm not saying that I agree. I am saying that it certainly can give the appearance of impropriety and I'm sure that there are people within the church who believe it is out of place.
Ultimately, unless someone has evidence to support this, how they conduct themselves is between them and God.
August 15, 2005 at 4:23 pm
Well, I started my arbonne business with my friend, who is also my pastors wife. We both started doing it for the same reasons, helping women. I was also lured by the fact that it was a Christian run business.
It was when reaching the next level and reaching the next dangling carrot when we parted ways. I didn't like that all my friends and fellow church family became the lead field.
I started seeking the Lord for insight. One day I prayed that He would help me understand what I was going through. I went online and found two books written by a pastors wife who had experienced the same things that I was feeling.
Athena Dean writes "All that glitters is not God" and Consumed by success, getting to the top and finding God is not there".
So I ordered them and they hit the nail on the head for me. After approuching her about this, we have never spoken. She now an RVP and drives the Mercedes.
I have chalked it up as a learning experience and know that God has a plan just for me.
The area I live is now full of Arbonne sales reps and many people I know have left the church I attend, have become very unhappy about the way she is so focused on it, all comsuming. I even had a lady ask me how the Mercedes ministry at my church was going. I could have just died. I have resigned to know that I did what I was supposed to do and get out. I pray for her often and do love her greatly, but struggle with the whole thing of being obsessed with building our riches here on earth instead in heaven.
Many opportunites to sell Arbonne are take priority over the opportunity to share Jesus instead.
August 15, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Psalm 49:16-17 says Do not be overawed when a man grows rich, when the splendor of his house increases: for he wil take nothing with him when he dies, his splendor will not descend with him.
Proverbs 23:4-5 says Do not wear yourself out to get rich: have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle.
1 Tim 6:9 says, People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
August 15, 2005 at 8:29 pm
What you describe is unfortunate and I�m sorry for the loss of a relationship you once cherished. I hope however, you�re not saying that pursuing making a living, or maximizing your income by choosing a different way to make a living is to be considered immoral. There�s no doubt that pursuit of riches for the sake of riches is not useful and can lead to all kinds of unfortunate behavior, but riches themselves are not immoral. What most people don�t realize is that having money does not change a person, but it often gives one the power to amplify the person they already were. For every person you find who is using Arbonne as means to selfishly enrich themselves, I can find many who are using Arbonne as a means to give them the freedom and power to serve others in ways they never could because of the restrictions of working a job or profession. We have doctors in Arbonne who now travel to third world countries to provide medical services for free since their Arbonne income freed them from their practice. We have other Arbonne VPs who are supporting family members who are ill or injured and can�t work and we have many who use sizable portions of their income to give to those in need. I don�t really want to see Joel�s blog turn into a discussion on the Bible, but the Bibles I own do not teach that it�s wrong to be rich or become rich. It does teach it is wrong to put riches above a desire for or a pursuit of holiness. Your friend will one day discover the error of her attitude no doubt.
August 16, 2005 at 7:18 am
Sorry, "Dominant" Dave, but I find you to be tiresome and annoying. You've co-opted this entire thread as though you suffer from a deeply held, fevered belief that your personal world view is the only correct one. It's not. It's as though this MLM has become a "religion" to you…
While I found myself thinking your responses relied heavily on personal attacks, even before the one characterized as "vicious", I've concluded that you are merely narrow minded and intolerant. You simply cannot stand the fact that anyone would dare disagree with you. You can take this as a personal attack or you can take it as my personal opinion of you. You might learn from it (in combination with others who've commented on the qualities of your "presence"), ignore it, or attack it. Somehow, I predict the latter.
As far as your need to be right, well, have it your way. You're always right, Dave, always. Does that make you feel better? It shouldn't, that was sarcasm, Dave, sarcasm. By the way, surely no one would think you're being condescending in your insistance that you're efforts here are selfless–in order to prevent anyone (apparently those unable to think for themselves by comparing and contrasting the other various individual responses) from getting the "wrong" impression (according to your way of believing) of Arbonne and thus missing out on "the opportunity of a lifetime". No, you're doing all those hapless, helpless, ignorant people a real service… I wonder if they'll remember you when they've achieved success (in whatever).
Also, considering your fervent (some might say "desperate") defense of Arbonne, I found it provoked two key thoughts… First was, what is he trying to hide–usually when anyone is this insistent or, rather, defensive, there's a hidden reason behind it. The second, and this was before it was suggested, was whether or not you might be a "company plant" or "shill". I've decided that whether the company has endorsed your responses or not, and regardless of your own opinion, you are, in fact, acting as a company shill. Perhaps if you didn't feel such a desperate need to respond to every post, to crush every hint of disagreement with your world view, and if you weren't so verbose… perhaps then you wouldn't seem so.
Well, we all know you must have the last word… and far be it from me to deny you your obsession, so go ahead, insult me, discredit me, do what you will. Exert yourself to your heart's content, wear yourself out, for much as another wise poster has concluded, it's not worth it to argue with you. Besides, I don't expect to check back anyway. If I've unfairly characterized you, alas, you have my apologies; of course, I formed my opinion of you completely from reading what you've written (and written, and written…).
As for the rest of you, I hope Arbonne works out for you. It may, or may not. I don't have any experience with this particular MLM. However, your degree of success depends on many things, among which is your own personality. Nowhere near everyone is well suited to sales, and that's not an insult by any means. While some are able to overcome any personality deficits, with regard to sales, through intense efforts, it doesn't work for everyone. So give yourself a break if you've tried hard and given it a resonable chance and didn't succeed. Just know when to move on to the next challenge as needed; you'll find success with something.
August 16, 2005 at 7:35 am
Well�if you�re not going to check back Reader, no need to waste my time responding. Plus, I'm sure most would agree with me that there's nothing of value to respond to anyway.
August 16, 2005 at 8:26 am
I think whatever anyone says has value, Dave. You're doing exactly what he or she (?) said you would. I think the advice given at the end given by "Reader" was excellent and that everyone should take that to heart. It is absolutely sound advice.
Thanks, "Reader."
August 16, 2005 at 8:31 am
My experience is just that, mine. No one can change how it effected me personally. You are correct, the Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The difference is the motivation behind how we view money and possessions. Why and what do we do along the way to get them and what do we do with them once we recieve them. I can not apologize for my references in the Word of God, I didn't write them, but I live my life for Jesus. He says that we are here for two reasons, to know Him and to make Him known. That is what everyhing else we do here on this earth is to lead to. He is the provider of all our wealth and possessions with or without us pushing some products down all of our friends and family's throats. Are we winning people to Christ by doing it. I am so glad that you know people that are putting their income from Arbonne to work in their lives to be able to share their God given talent with 3rd world countries. I too, have been to 3rd world countries, to do the Lord's work there. He supplied for all of my needs to get there to do His will, not mine.
I'm not saying anything against Arbonee itself, just MLM mentality that people get caught up in that takes over their mind, actions and lives.
Many people like myself spent lots of money being lured into beliving that we could fulfill our worldly dreams, it just is so deceptive. The stats of MLM people making any real money is staggering, less than 1%. The takes that I listened to actually told me that if any friends and family weren't supportive to get rid of them from our lives, because they were negative. That is mind control, and many people fall into this life style looking for something to fulfill them. Only Jesus can fulfill our emptiness. He is all I need, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the live" never did He say Arbonne or MLM.
August 16, 2005 at 9:19 am
Just a sidebar: Arbonne touts itself as a "Christian" led company, right? If that is the case, the foundation for Christianity is the Word of God – the Bible. Therefore, why shouldn't Arbonne be viewed in light of such? Just curious…
August 16, 2005 at 10:10 am
I really have to take issue with the idea that Arbonne is a �Christian led� company. I have never heard that and there is nothing in Arbonne literature that touts that. In fact, they make every effort to keep religious faith out of the official conversations about the company. While it�s true many devoted Christian people are involved and it�s true many apply their faith to the way they run their business, it is NOT a �Christian� company.
Look, here�s the simple truth about business, ANY business: A business exists for the sole purpose of providing a solution to the customer. A business does not exist, or thrive, for the purpose of making someone rich. That may be the result if there�s enough people who need your solution, but it is not the purpose. You succeed in MLM, or any business, by providing a solution to someone�s need. For those who don�t find the products or the business opportunity that Arbonne offers a solution to a need, than so be it. I have no problem with that. I only have been interested in defending Arbonne to the extent that for SOME it offers solutions. That�s not my opinion, it�s the truth based on the facts.
Zig Ziegler says �You can have whatever you want if you help enough people get what THEY want�. That�s the attitude and motivation for ANY successful business.
And Terri, I have no problem with your Christian faith. If you believe that God calls you to do something other than Arbonne that�s great. Do what you feel you�re led to do but don�t feel jealousy or righteous indignation toward those who feel God provided the opportunity to solve THEIR problems, whatever they may be. If you think someone you know has the wrong motivations then talk to them about it instead of criticizing and lumping every business person together and suggesting we�re all greedy and un-Christian.
August 16, 2005 at 11:34 am
ARBONNE INTERNATIONAL HAS NO RELIGIOUS AFFICIATION!! I am an ENVP (got there in 20 months. Making over $20,000 per month and helping many others (both men and women reach this same goal) already have ten in my success line making over $60,000 a year!, and two making over $100,000. Yes, in the beginning stages there is very little income. As is with any new business. This is not get rich quick, this is a business. I describe my job as "finding people who want to make a change and helping the to successfully do so". For some that is getting amazing products at a very reasonable price, and for others that is building a business to create financial freedom. The beauty of this business is that it is what ever YOU want it to be!! I don't have time to get caught up reading this page, found it by accident. So sorry to see some who have such little self worth and low expectation of what this temporary life on earth has to offer them. Arbonne truly is the vehicle that can take those who have desire and commitment to a place where many only dream of! I am so thankful that I found Arbonne. Otherwise I'd be making a fraction of the income, trading hours for dollars, with someone else deciding what I am worth.
August 16, 2005 at 12:21 pm
I apologize for offending anyone here with my Christian beliefs. Where I am Arbonne is totally driven as being solid, moral and Christian organization even though Arbonne itself does not. Here it is taken over our church and other churches with the expectation of making it rich and living a certain lifestlye.
As a follower of Christ, we are called to preach the gospel of Christ, in all we say and do. My current business filled a need for people, but Jesus opened the door for me to offer this service at a means to preach the gospel to the lost and dying world. As a reward, I make money to live on. He promises to provide for our every need, not our every want.
I just returned from a 3rd world country to share the love of Christ and eternal life with Him there. It really changed how I see the way we make money, why we make money and what we do with it. We are the richest country in the world and only peanuts are spent to help those in need.
I have spoken with my friend, but she in so deep she can not see the truth.
August 16, 2005 at 12:44 pm
After reading this blog for days, and speaking to Arbonne people, my boyfriend and I think we are going to try this whole Arbonne thing. I'm not personally a big fan of getting my friends and family involved until I am much more established. I deal with enough skepticism from those people. So, if anyone has good advice on how to entice strangers, I'm all ears.
I think once we get going, I'll start a blog on my progress. That way, anyone who is thinking about starting Arbonne can watch my timeline and success rate. Or you can all watch me fall flat on my face with it, whichever happens first.
I'll keep you guys posted on what I do, so you can all come visit me at my new blog!
August 16, 2005 at 12:55 pm
Terri…Here's my story. I am a mininsters wife, my husband has been a youth minister for 18 years. I have been an Arbonne consultant for over a year. I have experienced some success. When I first started my business I asked some friends over from church…it was great at first but after awhile I could tell that I was isolating some people. I realized that church is not the place for business. I now do not work my Arbonne business with the people at church. I get out of my house and hand out demo kits and make appointments with people from leads from clients.
I want you to know that several of the Area Managers on my team are doing Arbonne so that they can be fully self supporting missionaries in Thailand, Africa, and the US. I do Arbonne because I want to stay home with my children and I want to help people financially. I was in car sales before Arbonne…go figure. My dream is for my team to build a Habitat for Humanity house. I hold the money loosely. I want my integrity to be very apparent. I want people to know that I cherish them more than the sale. The business of Arbonne has given me more freedom than any other job I've ever had.
August 16, 2005 at 1:08 pm
I am seriously thinking about signing up with Arbonne. Reading some of these comments have given me doubts and some have given me info. that makes me say I can do this. I want to be a stay at home mom and take off these corporate shackles. My concern is that (well the way it was explained to me) if you don't come in at a 10 pack you are kinda out of the loop. What is the least you can come in at and be successful or what is recommended? Also, I have a problem with giving parties but have some awesome ideas as alternatives.
August 16, 2005 at 1:18 pm
Good advice too, Rachel. (I love how I'm the comment girl).. I have nothing valid to add to this site. I'm actually laughing out loud at myself for responding to everyone at this point. Anyhoo, good luck to everyone, Arbonne or no Arbonne.
August 16, 2005 at 1:42 pm
Thank you for your input, I think it is great that you are able to do Arbonne to enrich God's kingdom financially. I would encourage you to look up the books that I read from Athena Dean. "All that glitters is not God" and Consumed by Success, getting to the top and finding God's not there". I'm not condemning Arbonne or MLM's, just the misguided motives that are encouraged to sell and promote Arbonne. My friend is so gifted in so many ways, yet in my opinion neglects her family and true God given gifts to pursue the opportunity to get rich.
August 16, 2005 at 1:45 pm
I have had similar experience with isolation from others and push push push to sell, sell, sell to get to the next level at any expense.
There are lots of other ways to make money and maintain your integrity.
August 16, 2005 at 2:13 pm
Can anyone provide the following information?
Income and memberhsip measures/statistics (USA Only):
(please indicate inaccurate 'Arbonne' terminology and excuse those errors)
(note that 'member' is used interchangeably/to refer to 'consultants' and all title's at other levels)
For each of the last three years:
� How many total members exist at each level?
(total salesforce by level)
� What is the average payout to members at each of those levels?
(mean, median and standard deviation)
� What is the total payout to each of those levels?
� How many new members have been recruited?
(total, overall additional members)
For each of the most recent three (at least) months, how many:
� total new members have joined
� new members, on average, by level, have existing members recruited
(mean, median and standard deviation)
� existing members failed to renew or dropped out
(ideally, both how many didn't even maintain their 'wholesale' privileges,
as well as those who simply fell silent, only purchasing for their own needs)
� existing members at each level fail to directly recruit any new members
(how many members fail to add to their personal downline/firstline;
especially for the first few levels of achievement)
� members have under $200/month in product sales
(not counting promotional, training or sample products; generally meaning
those members only purchasing goods for their own or immediate family's use)
� For the last six months, how many members at each level have earned an
average payout/income per month in the following ranges:
Income Range Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4
� $0 to $1,000 x x x x
� $1,001 to $2,000 x x x x
� $2,001 to $3,000 x x x x
� $3,001 to $4,000 x x x x
� $4,001 to $5,000 x x x x
� $5,001 to $6,000 x x x x
� $6,001 to $7,000 x x x x
� $7,001 to $8,000 x x x x
� $8,001 to $9,000 x x x x
� $9,001 to $10,000 x x x x
� $10,001 to $15,000 x x x x
� $15,001 to $20,000 x x x x
� $20,001 to $25,000 x x x x
� $25,001 to $30,000 x x x x
� $30,001 to $40,000 x x x x
� $40,001 to $50,000 x x x x
� $50,001 to $13,000 x x x x
� $60,001 to $13,000 x x x x
� $70,001 to $13,000 x x x x
� $80,001 to $13,000 x x x x
� $90,001 to $100,000 x x x x
� $100,001 to $150,000 x x x x
� $150,001 to $200,000 x x x x
� $200,001 to $250,000 x x x x
� $250,001 to $500,000 x x x x
� $500,001 to $1,000,000 x x x x
� $1,000,001 to $2,000,000 x x x x
� $2,000,001 to $5,000,000 x x x x
No one need be named individually, since that wouldn't be a polite question in some circles.
Enquiring minds want to know?
August 16, 2005 at 3:02 pm
Battle of the Sexes?
Ouch. I could have guessed that an MLM specializing in skin care and consmetics, males would naturally be under-represented. Sure enough…
Out of 21 "New" National Vice Presidents, 1 is male. Of a larger number of archived NVP's, it looks like either 1 or 2 are male.
Out of 21 "New" Regional Vice Presidents, again, 1 is male. Only something like 18 to 20 of somewhere around 770 archived RVPs are male (interestingly, guys named "Joey" occur with surprising frequency; unless that can be a woman's name(?)).
While it's obvious this isn't discrimination, I suspect we'd be hearing about it if the sexes were reversed. Be that as it may, it certainly seems likely to be somewhat of an uphill battle for the guys, since we don't really use many of these products and might find it awkward to attempt to instruct more experienced women in their use (if it comes to that). Besides, while we might like to, most males probably don't have as strong a social relationship with nearly as many women as women are likely to have with women. Otherwise, who knows there may be an advantage (though none come to mind that I would wager on).
Any thoughts?
August 16, 2005 at 3:16 pm
I started with Arbonne in May of 2005 and I invested a total of $115.00 to start my business. I immediately booked presentations and handed out sample packs. I used my profits from my retail sales to purchase my own product to use in my business. The same Re9 set I used at presentations, I used at home. I understand that many people are buying the promotion levels of management. I didn't do that. I sold the products first. I don't have a garage full of inventory hoping to sell them. I order what my clints need. I have worked up to equipping myself with several demo kits but it's not what I did to start my business. If I had been asked to purchase $1,000 worth of products when I started I couldn't have done that. I was trained by my sponsor to start my business by booking launch presentations and to get sample packs out to prospective clients. We used her products for my launch and then I purchased my own. You don't have to purchase thousands of dollars in products to start your business off right. If you could buy about $500 in products and catalogs it can make your launch easier. Easier, because you have everything you need. If you can't afford that (like me when I started) then you just have to work harder. But you must work to be successful. That applies to any business. Hope this helps.
August 16, 2005 at 3:36 pm
Thank you! This is the kind of thing those of us wanting to start Arbonne need to hear. This forum has been full of battles about everything from MLM to the existence of labratories to the role of the church in the company!
I came here to find out as much about the process as possible. Do I want to sell it, what is the success rate, how do I build a business without approaching my close friends and family first. I'm trying to make an important decision that can mean anything from just making enough money to finance my wedding to being a stay at home mom when that time comes.
The fact that MLM is risky is a given. The fact that success will take hard work is a no brainer. What we need in this forum is information on the tips and techniques that will make us successful. If I'm already involved in researching, I'm obviously not walking into this with my head in the clouds hoping for a get rich quick.
Sidenote: Does anyone in here know anything about Arbonne's saturation on the east coast? I live near Philadelphia and last month was the first I'd ever heard about it.
Please keep the selling tips advice coming!!
August 16, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Hi Leah,
You�re right. This thread could be a valuable tool for those seeking useful information but there are many who feel it�s their mission to discourage you rather than inform you. To the extent I allowed the useless conversation to continue by responding to it and trying to educate the uninformed or chastise the spiteful, I apologize to people like you. There are many useful topics to debate and I readily accept that I am not one of them.
Allow me one comment though on something you said. There is a difference between �risky� and �risk�. Any business involves some risk. But don�t look at Arbonne as �risky�. Putting a month�s income down on horse number 5 in the third race is risky. Investing in product and sales aids to start a business is not.
There�s an excellent book I think you would find extremely valuable, as well as others here who have repeatedly brought up the family and friends issue. It�s called �How to Sell Network Marketing without fear, anxiety or losing your friends!� by Michael Oliver, author of �Natural Selling� You�ll find the answers you�re looking for there. (If I attempt to briefly share the concepts here someone will accuse me of being �defensive� or whatever. Although I know it would be useful because most people will never buy and read this book.)
As far as your question about Philly, you�re in a good area. That�s where we are and you�re right, most have never heard of Arbonne around here. We�re only at the beginning so don�t give in to any doubts. You�ll do great.
August 16, 2005 at 4:39 pm
The information you�re looking for would be very interesting, I agree. I just have no idea how to get it. Some you could get very easily as it is available at the Arbonne web site, but most of what you ask is not published to my knowledge.
August 16, 2005 at 5:09 pm
Thanks Dave. I will check out the book. I understand your passion in showing everyone what a wonderful thing Arbonne is because it has brought you so much success, but I think you should just let the negative people have their say and move on from there.
There are going to be people out there who have a bad experience. They deserve to voice their opinions just as much as those who have success. It's all about listening to everyone's input to determine what is best for everyone. There are people who will choose not to get involved because they can envision the unfortunate turn of events happening to them, and they may be right. I may not be successful once I get into it, but I'm not going to let that stop me from trying.
I appreciate your input and help throughout this thread. You just get a little too excited in your defense/ support of Arbonne, and you do end up sounding like you are attacking people for not being successful. That's just my little advice, even though I think it's already been said, and I think you've already heeded it. Let's keep this forum going to inform, support, and even warn. Everyone's experience is valid.
BTW Dave, since you're in the Philly area, check out our website. Maybe you are near enough to catch one of my boyfriend's gigs. We update monthly, and September will be busier than August.
August 16, 2005 at 6:03 pm
I'll be a real straight shooter with you. I'll help answer any questions that I can.
In watching Arbonne explode in growth this past year I can see that some core ideas have begun to shift and it makes me wary. I'll still work my business in such a manner that will continue to give my team the best foundation possible. I personally don't believe it is in buying management levels. It's in selling a great product along side showing others that they can do this too. You have to EARN the Management levels not BUY them.
When you decide to start your Arbonne business, always do what is going to be comfortable for your family financially.
And this is so important…no matter what level the person that you are signing up under…District Manager, Area Manager, Executive National Vice President…make sure that they are working. Working means selling product. If they are just signing people up for the "Business". RUN AWAY. If they expect you to buy a huge amount of inventory for "demo-kits". Huge is over $1000. RUN AWAY. The only way you can be really successful in Arbonne is to sell product. If they aren't selling product then how can they teach you. If they aren't willing to teach you then they aren't a good leader. In Arbonne you have to lead by example. The bottom line of this business is to sell products…hope this helps.
August 16, 2005 at 6:36 pm
I figured it was wishful thinking; but it would be a fantastically powerful motivator/recruiting tool if it was available, easily understood and clearly showed dramatic success. A sort of proof of the real possibilities of achieving all the hopes we build when we consider the business. Depending on the numbers on such a hypothetical report, I suppose it's possible the company could actually be overwhelmed by too many interested parties. I wonder if the maxim, "moderation in all things" applies to success…
August 16, 2005 at 6:37 pm
Leah, I�d love to check out your website. Email it to me when you can.
I really must say though I have never attacked anyone for failing or having a bad experience, have I? I�m very sorry when people fail. I know there are people who have had bad experiences. I hoped my first hand knowledge of the business and numerous success examples I could share would have been received the way they were intended; to help those like you with questions. But apparently many don�t see it that way and there are those who would rather use their failure/bad experience as a reason to invalidate everyone else�s success. A bad experience can be instructive and deserve to be heard, I agree, and there are examples here of how I tried to explain how those bad experiences may have happened and what one might learn from them. There are also examples of my agreeing with the writer that their bad experience should not have happened and the person causing it was wrong.
What is really unfortunate is when people claim to read what I write and then make conclusions about what I said, or about me, that aren�t in any way accurate or reflected in my words. And then because I make an attempt to clarify or inform it�s suggested that my �defense� is an indication I have something to hide! Those arguments, and others like it, are intellectually empty and demonstrate no logic at all.
You may very well understand it better when you reach the level of RVP and somebody tries to tell you that you got their by deceiving the uninformed, pushing overpriced products onto people who don�t really want them and that your financial gain is ill gotten by some �scheme�. Hopefully that won�t happen unless you hang around here!
August 16, 2005 at 8:44 pm
Rachel, great addition to this site, all of your posts so far have been very informative, helpful and objective.
Bob, have you tried to contact Arbonne directly to get the info your asking for? I just ask b/c I'd hate for you to ask an Independent Consultant for that info and have them give you inaccurate info. I suggest contacting Arbonne directly and see what they have to say. I know some of the answers are available on their website.
Leah, great idea about the blog to track your success. I think I will do the same thing for potential recruits to see the day to day activity it takes to be successful, and also for my own tracking purposes.
August 16, 2005 at 10:32 pm
I recently joined Arbonne with much excitement, unfortionately the friends and family that I share this with seem to be withdrawing themselves from me. Some people got really excited, but then when I called them again to continue the steps needed towards becoming a consultant, they wouldn't return my calls. I even have had some people get very dfensive and rude. I'm not being pushy. I knew that this wasn't going to be easy, that I'm fine with, but I don't want to become unlikable because of this. Does anyone have any advice for me on how I could possibly make this work. I really want to be successfull and am willing to put the time and effort in.
August 17, 2005 at 7:31 am
Just click on my name to get there.
Rachel, I agree. You are giving very realistic advice. I like the samples idea. It's a way to get product out to people without spending a ton of money. I just wish their samples were in bottle form rather than packet. My shampoo and conditioner only lasted three uses. But it's AWESOME. Oh well, nothing is perfect.
August 17, 2005 at 8:19 am
Hi Christy,
What you describe is not necessarily unusual. Unfortunately, handling it correctly is also unusual, so let me see if my advice helps. I�m only offering this as a suggestion so feel free to take it for what it�s worth.
Many times what happens when a new consultant is very excited and enthusiastic is their excitement causes those around them to get excited too. In a sense people around you want to feel the same thrill you�re feeling and so before they really have all the information and have time to process what might be required, or even if they have the need or desire, they say something to you that sounds like a commitment, or they fear you�ll think it was a commitment. Now after the excitement wears down and they start to consider the details, or their LACK of details, they realize they aren�t willing to make that commitment and they don�t know how to get out of it without embarrassment, fear that they�ll disappoint you or, depending on your personality, fear that you�ll be angry with them.
What�s important for you to do is reassure them by your actions that you�re not holding them to any commitment. Your next contact with those people should probably not be about the business. You need to establish in their minds that you have no expectations and that your interest is about THEM and not what they could do for you. Ask them about their vacation, their new car, their recent illness, whatever, but focus on your interest in their lives and not YOUR life. Once you�ve established that you not counting on them, you could at some point ask if they would like to hear about how your business is going and try some products. The idea in your conversations should not be a sales presentation, but a genuine inquiry into their needs to see if the products or the business is a fit for them. If you keep the focus on what their needs, desires or problems are you�ll soon discover whether you have a solution. If you think you do have a solution then that�s the time to ask them if they�d like to hear about what you do. If they agree with you that Arbonne offers a solution they will gladly be a customer and/or a partner in the business. Basically it comes down to what is true in all sales. People love to buy; they don�t like to be sold.
I hope that helps some.
August 17, 2005 at 12:44 pm
Last month my brother joined Arbonne as a new consultant. His team (upperline) is using the pup method (fast track) to move people up in the business quickly. I ran across this website while doing my homework to find out more about the company and to read what other people feel are the pros and cons of getting involved. My understanding is that this is not a get rich quick scheme; it is a legitimate business that takes time and effort to be successful in. I went to a meeting and spoke to some of the District and Area Managers within the team, some people have moved up quickly and others slowly. This particular team is based in Kennesaw Ga (right outside of Atlanta), they have a great support system with almost daily conference calls for training and to teach new prospects about how the business works. They also have meetings on Tuesday and Thursday evening that you can invite your prospects to so they can learn more about Arbonne. They also have multiple training classes through out the week to help consultants learn how to run their business. So because the support system is good with this team, I am going to join under my brother and my wife and I will try our best. Someone posted something earlier about the low % of men that are successful with Arbonne so I guess my brother and I will be a couple of examples of how men do in the business, wish me luck, and if any of you have good pointers on how you gained your success, please email me.
August 17, 2005 at 1:49 pm
Thanks Dave for your advice. I think you are absolutely right. I have been toning it down. I'm going to try to work more on the puppy approach, and foccus more on the product rather than the business opportunity. I have realized that it might just take me longer to grow. I'm hoping that if I just work on getting people interested in the product that everything else will fall into place. I do have an advantage of being an esthetician, so I know a lot about skin care, but I have a disadvantage of not knowing too many people in the area that I recently moved to. I also think I have tapped through my warm market. Do you think I have much of a chance with arbonne?
August 17, 2005 at 4:14 pm
I am a very new Arbonne consultant (signed up August 1), and naturally, I've been finding the postings here fascinating. I have no wish to argue with anyone or dispute anyone's beliefs or experiences, positive or negative. I simply want to share my own experiences, in the hope they are helpful to another reader.
A friend had started using Arbonne products, became a consultant, and gave me an Re9 sample packet. I used the samples and experienced a remarkable change in my skin within a very short period of time. I received unsolicited positive comments about my skin (that is, nobody who commented knew I was using the product), and immediately decided to purchase the Re9 skin care line. The results I was having were far beyond anything I'd experienced with any other skin care products I'd used in the past.
I became a consultant in order to get the 35% discount on the products. I also decided to put in the time to build a successful business… quickly. You see, I am highly educated with extensive managerial experience in my field, BUT got RIFd in 2003, and despite an extensive, time-consuming search, have been unable to find a job in my field since that time.
I've discovered from my research on Arbonne that the very successful consultants put in their time… worked the business on a 1-1 basis… helped others grow in their skills and abilities. Looks like a win-win situation to me!
As far as the "warm recruits" are concerned, I can relate to those who expressed discomfort. I don't want to be the person who everyone runs away from when I appear in public! So my attitude is simply to share my experiences with family and friends, and if they're interested, great. If not, fine. My relationships are too important to me; I'm not about to spoil them.
I'm gathering lots of information from various sources (the Arbonne website, Arbonne University, websites of ENVP's, etc.) and am formulating a serious plan for building my business. I would be delighted to hear any positive suggestions or ideas you might have about this kind of business building.
I wish everyone good luck and happiness in his/her endeavors. All the best!
August 17, 2005 at 7:29 pm
Hey Christy…
Interesting that Carol would post her story right after you because she demonstrates perfectly how the business works best. Introduce people to the product and those who have great results (which are most btw) will inquire about the business if they have a need and desire. Carol is a classic example of how many of the most successful consultants came to this business. She loves the product, has excellent credentials and has a need for the business. Carol�you�re �why� is what will propel you to great success. You sound like a perfect fit for the business. I wish you the best of success.
You have an excellent chance at success, Christy, if you�re determined to be successful I know a certain ENVP who moved to a new state 4 years ago and knew not a soul. She knew about Arbonne from the state she moved from, but had not done the business until she moved. Her total successline volume now is over 1.5 million per month. You�d faint if I told you how much her checks are. Anyway, approach the business from a desire to serve and help others and they will respond to you more positively than you�d think possible.
August 18, 2005 at 7:07 am
Christy and Carol,
I was already pretty much sold, but you have solidified my decision. We are going to a class on August 25th, and we are signing up. I can't afford to put much investment in right now, but at least it's a start.
My future sponsor just sent us an invitation for September to see a holiday line demonstration at her house. This is the perfect time to get involved. Get people to think about this for holiday gifts, and their shopping is done quickly with a product everyone falls in love with.
I've even considered that as a way to glide in with those I'm close to: Give them a set for Christmas, ask them to use it exclusively for a week to see if they can't live without it, and watch the orders come in.
Dave, I'm really thankful that you found this thread when you did. It is really helpful to have someone so experienced in here to give good advice and encouragement. I hope you stick around for those of us who are new and could really use the extra help.
August 18, 2005 at 6:55 pm
Hi, I read almost the entire page of posts. Unfortunately, I had to skip most of Dave's long-winded responses after a while. I find it interesting that when anyone is not gung-ho in favor of Arbonne, or even questions marketing strategies/actual location/etc., Dave is right in there with a lengthy (yawn) and militant rebuttal, often with some nasty-sounding accusation and belittling remarks thrown in, or suggestions for therapeutic intervention. Dave, stop. Let everyone else discuss this topic. We all know your feelings at this point and we can think for ourselves — without therapeutic intervention! I know nothing about Arbonne but after reading the hostility present in some of the posts in this forum, I can honestly say I'll steer clear of this company. I guess I won't be blessed. Darn! Besides, thanks to some people here, I have found links to products boasting the same benefits without the almost brainwashed-sounding rhetoric from their reps. Thanks Dave!
August 18, 2005 at 9:45 pm
Amy, what products? I'm interested in that one! 🙂 Thanks!
August 19, 2005 at 3:55 am
Wow is an understatement!! I just sat and read this whole blog in one night. I, like many, searched for reviews on Arbonne. And like some found the site addictive, funny, scary, and overboard (sorry Dave, but you earned it whole heartedly).
Had I stopped reading in the middle I would have walked away with a definite "no, I'm not interested." But thanks to the ladies toward the end sharing so many helpful testimonies I am still considering it.
With regard to the deceit in advertising (location, Swiss blah, blah, blah, and the incorrect images) that cannot be taken lightly by anyone in business or experienced with marketing. Rarely can such misconceptions be truly the fault of someone lowly on the totem pole at a corporation. But, mistakes happen, even if dozens of industry professionals and scholars proof the material.
Rachel, I would like to discuss Arbonne with you.
August 19, 2005 at 7:31 am
I have to say that the only way to fail in the business of Arbonne is to quit. I may not have found my nich yet but I just started a week ago. I know that there is always a way to succeed you just have to give it your all. I have a disadvantage of not knowing many people around where I live, but I'm not going to quit on an opportunity like this. I have also come to realize that I need to focuss on the great product and impress people that way. not focussing on getting people in the business right away. People will trust you more that way. A lot of people I know joined the business after falling in love with the product. The nice thing is that you can still make good money just selling product. Unlike some mlm companies that only really reward if you recrute others into their company. Don't get me wrong, when the opportunity comes where you get the right person to share this business with, you will bennefit well from their effort as well. But remember it has to be the right person. You don't want to push somone into this who you know isn't going to put the effort in, then they will just get mad at you for wasting their time and money. That is no way to represent Arbonne.
August 19, 2005 at 7:53 am
Hey guys, I talked to my sponsor last night. She wants to plan my launch for September! I'm excited, and afraid but I'm going to give this thing my all. I'm not leaving my day job, so I don't have to worry about having to make it big quick. I'm working on my list of 100 people this weekend, and I'm thinking about the people who would really support me and be interested in this opportunity.
It is tough, trying to think of a friend who won't think you are crazy for getting involved in an MLM, but we all have at least one or two who would "get it."
Gabby, keep researching. Don't get involved in anything that you aren't comfortable with, because you won't approach it with the right attitude, and I don't mean that as an attack. Find out as much as you can first. A lack of details and info is what makes most initially excited people fail quickly.
With regard to the fake lab: when you call your credit card company for service, you are not calling your credit card company. You are calling a giant building in India with thousands of people working for hundreds of companies. Your credit card company doesn't tell you that, but I worked for the company who owns the building in India, so I know it's true. A lot of big companies use outsourcing to cut costs. Was the stuff created in a lab by a team of scientists who were contracted by a company named AIRD? Yes, who cares who owned the building?
With the marketing and the flower: Aesthetics will win over true facts sometimes. The flower they used probably fit the color scheme they were going for. They wanted to get the idea across that they are using botanical ingredients, and the average joe is going to see a pretty flower and move on. Make up your own mind on the ethics of that, but most people won't find an inaccuracy of that type to be very important. Sell me a car that doesn't look as advertised, and I'm going to be mad, but use the wrong flower in a picture, and I'll get over it.
Sorry for rambling, I promise not to do it again!
August 19, 2005 at 9:05 am
One of the most important truths that I will give you when starting your Arbonne business is that it's HARD. Arbonne is a simple business…selling great products and telling people they can do the same, but it is HARD. You will get no-show presentations. You'll ask for leads and you will hear the word NO over and over again. Your prospective client will give back the RE9 demo kit and say that it "smelled funny". Someone will cancel their order after you have placed it online. You will sometimes get your feelings hurt by a friend who is mean spirited. BUT I do it nevertheless. It's my job. I own my business. I choose. The product worked fabulously for me. My skin looks wonderful. I have great clients that reorder. I have had presentations over $1200 in sales. I have helped women bring in extra income for their families. I have hope for a better financial future. Is it worth the HARD part? It is for me. Everyone has to decide for themselves. I just want you to be informed. Hope this helps.
August 19, 2005 at 11:22 am
Thank you for that description, Rachel. It�s exactly true and, though some choose to ignore what I�ve said, I did say almost the exact thing earlier when I wrote that the business is not complicated but can be very hard.
I�m going to comment on the last post by �Amy� because of the example it illustrates to show why there�s such contention between me and some others who have posted. Then I�m going to get ready for a golf tournament and my trip to Hawaii, so I�ll shut up for a while. I hope this is instructive for others even while I know some of you will �yawn�.
It occurred to me that the difficulty of communicating with some on here is basically a problem with �right brain, left brain� differences, or some might say, Mars vs. Venus. In most cases I have attempted to respond by dealing with the logic or the correctness of the argument or information that some have posted. I agree I have been harsh at times because, frankly, I am not trying to appeal to emotions or feelings, but to the motives, judgment and sense of one�s argument as well as the accuracy of the writer.
Those like �Amy�, �Reader� and �Confidence & Diversion� have responded to me, not by challenging my logic or my facts, but by taking up an offense against me for the way I made them feel, or how they suspect my comments made someone else �feel�. I don�t want this to be very long, but let me use Amy to show what I mean. (And I�m NOT attacking her.)
Amy makes three things clear. 1. She skipped most of what I said because she thought it was too hostile, 2. She knows nothing about Arbonne and has had no prior exposure to it and 3. She has no interest in Arbonne now because of my hostility. Yet in spite of those facts and reactions, she still felt compelled by her emotions to write over 200 words just to complain about me. I would guess by doing so she FELT better.
On the other hand I react to these kinds of posts from a logical or intellectual perspective and dispute the accuracy of her conclusions as well as the sense of what she says. For example, does it really make sense to judge the potential opportunity Arbonne represents because she doesn�t like ME or what I�ve said or how I said it? (Especially since she claims she skipped most of it) Of course not. If it�s true what she says, that others can think for themselves, then does it make sense for her, thinking on her own I assume, to make a decision about her future based on ME? No�it�s an emotional response.
In business you should appeal to people�s emotions to attract them to your product or service, but you gain their loyalty or commitment to your product or service based on their real life experience, i.e. the logic of the decision. For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.
Should I feel I have something to offer when legitimate questions are asked, I will continue to respond. In the last week I�ve received at least a dozen direct emails requesting my assistance or comments from someone who read my posts, and I will continue to assist those who ask. On the other hand I�ll take into account the emotional side and try to be more sensitive to the �Amys� of the world so as not to hurt their feelings.
August 19, 2005 at 12:13 pm
What an arrogant jackass.
August 19, 2005 at 12:39 pm
Oh brother. Where's Mike when I need him? You forgot to add "God Bless."
August 19, 2005 at 3:00 pm
While I wouldn't have put it so bluntly, I do agree that Dave's posts imply a certain self-assigned omnipotence. I don't think he fairly characterizes those who disagree with Arbonne or MLM in general. And while he seems to feel that there is so much negativity specifically directed at him, he can't really be that surprised when he himself has defined his role here as more of a moderator than an equal in an open discussion.
I also think it was a mistake to imply that those that have challenged his views were unable to distinguish logic from their feelings, and then state that he is above this tendency.
"On the other hand I react to these kinds of posts from a logical or intellectual perspective and dispute the accuracy of her conclusions as well as the sense of what she says."
Compare with Dave's first post (6/7/05):
"Wow….Joal…I hate to say it but you're a moron. Geez..all of your "arguments" are easily debunked…so folks…don't listen to him."
Was that logic or emotion dictating that post?
As far as Arbonne goes. I think there is enough information here and elsewhere for people to make an intelligent decision as to whether the opportunity is right for them. Clearly there are strong opinions on both sides of the fence.
But why is it necessary for someone to recurrently represent one side of the argument. Almost as if the cause might be lost without their aid. I hope Arbonne has more faith in their representatives than Dave does.
August 19, 2005 at 3:40 pm
Wow – here it is 3:30pm on 8/19/05 and i finally finished reading all of the post. I am an Arbonne Consultant, joined 05/05/ – Love the products, the opportunity seems incredible. I truly enjoyed reading everyone's post. Great points were made. My direct sponsor is an NVP, Valerie Edwards, she made it in 18 months. She teaches us just to do the presentations (and if you can afford to do the Results Approach, then do it). But at least with Parties/presentations you can get a greater number of people in a room at one time. I also use my own products to demonstrate. Demonstrate the RE-9, Thermal Fusion Masque, Salt Scrub (which is always a big hit) and the hand Lotion. In my house we are all the vitamins (and by doing the autoship – you get your health and nutrition products 50% off. You can't beat it. There is nothing bad with getting people to buy products from themselves. I don't understand why all of the negative people want to condemn someone for trying to make a better life for their families. All it is – is an opportunity. And it can be a fun one. To me, hanging with a bunch of people talking about health and skin care – is alot more fun than sitting in an office or a cubicle all day long. So while I am here I am going to throw out my info- I am in Houston, Texas. It's slowly getting around here. Houston is mostly, Mary Kay, Avon and Beauticontrol. We hold meetings once a wk (they are free). If anyone wants information please contact me at [email protected]
August 19, 2005 at 3:46 pm
I think that it is so rediculous how people have to argue about weather Arbonne is a good company to work for or not. The truth is that it is not for everyone. It takes a lot of time and patiance to do well in Arbonne. If it was easy everone would be an Arbonne consultant. It is not easy, but I think it is fun. That is why they reward you so hansomely for your work at Arbonne because they know it takes a lot to do well in it. If you want it bad enough it will happen. Once you get your business going it is smooth sailing from there. I believe the best way to get there is to keep your eye on the prize, whether that might be the money, the car, or being able to have more time with your family.
August 19, 2005 at 3:56 pm
Is doing your taxes a nightmare? I've always filed single, E-Z, standard deduction, whatever. I know everything becomes a writeoff. Is it a tough transition when joining near the end of the year? Is it time to just get an accountant?
August 19, 2005 at 5:26 pm
Randy, I apologized for my first comment. I was wrong and I admitted it. I made the mistake of an emotional reaction too quickly to what I knew to be wrong information.
I never said you CAN'T make a reasonable, logical argument for or against, I'm just saying those individuals who I mentioned were specifically using their emotions to respond and not thinking thru the logic of their argument, whether it was agaist me or Arbonne or MLM in general. Others who have posted serious, logical questions and refrained from ridicule have been answered by me and others very nicely.
You seem to miss my point, which I assume others will too. It's much like the political arguments these days where many on one side try to argue the merits and wisdom of the war on terror while many on the other side think yelling "Bush is a Nazi" is a credible argument. If it weren't for those kinds of reactions here, I wouldn't have been so involved. Frankly, most of what I've posted was in response to information I offered or complaints directed AT me. Why is anyone surprised that I'd respond?
And now to Leah with a good question:
You will need to file a schedule C to claim deductions from a business. Sorry, no more EZ. You probably don't need an accountant this year, but possibly next. Download the form from irs.gov and you'll see what records you need to keep by the questions the form asks.
August 19, 2005 at 9:30 pm
This was an interesting read for me. Seeing the positives and negatives and I am still glad that I decided to build a business with Arbonne. I started in March of this year. For me Arbonne was the light at the end of the tunnel(I was so excited I couldn't sleep for 2 months). I thought about quitting at times since then, but Christy is right if it was easy everyone would be in. I believe that if you have the right mindset with the right company you can go all the way to the top of any MLM, its up to each individual to decide. For me the short term sacrifice will be worth it, as I like the idea of being the one to decide whether my pay will increase not some boss. I believe if you are honest and have good ethics, success will come. I live in a small town in Kansas and got to DM my first month, EDM my second month and when things got tough my girl gave it up but I'm not going to let that stop me because I've made new friends along the way, Arbonne has great leadership, a great compensation plan and an awsome product.
August 20, 2005 at 9:12 am
I've mentioned on here before about doing 50% off prices for customers and yourself. It's more or less always doing RSVPs. Does no one else do this, and, Dave, maybe you know…is there anything wrong with it? I'm concerned that no one else does it! It works really great!
August 20, 2005 at 11:29 am
Main Entry: ar�ro�gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n(t)s
Function: noun
: a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims
August 20, 2005 at 6:10 pm
So, could Dave be Joel?
August 20, 2005 at 7:31 pm
For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.
I take exception to Dave's unfortunate stereotyping of women's thinking skills, which he criticizes as being unreliable. Women have been very successful at building Arbonne into a multi-million dollar company over the past 25 years.
I think that Arbonne President Rita Davenport, Arbonne Vice President of Customer Service Kathy Huffman, and Arbonne Vice President of Operations Carol Hukari would take exception to Dave's criticism and stereotyping of women.
August 21, 2005 at 11:36 am
No ACL. Dave could not be Joel. But Joel COULD be Elvis. And the mystery deepens… 😉
August 22, 2005 at 7:30 am
Jodi, I'm so glad to hear that you are doing so well with Arbonne. I'm finding it to be hard to get going, but it is also fun. I know I'm going to be successful in this because I'm not going to give up. It might take me longer than others but I don't care. I'm just going to chip away at this untill I make it. My advice to anyone is to not get all wrapped up in the money right away, take it one step at a time. People who think that they are going to get rich quick end up getting frustrated and give up because they see that this requires real work. I'm working hard at my current full time job as an esthetician as if I was not planning on quitting ever, and in my spare time I'm giving my all to Arbonne. This way when I do get disapointments I don't get depressed about it, because I have a life outside of this that I am successful with. The time will come where I will be able to quit my esthetic job and only do Arbonne, but I'm not going to dwell on that because its' going to be a bumpy road.
August 22, 2005 at 12:50 pm
I'm launching in September!! Thanks to everyone who is providing helpful advice and inspiration here. Christy, you are on the right track. Yes, I want to get to where I can quit my job, but I like my job, so I'm not over-emphasizing on that. I just want to get some good customers, and if the opportunity speaks to anyone, I hope they will join me.
Has anyone had trouble getting the credit card? I have some pretty scarred credit right now from some of the really broke periods in my life. I'm worried that I won't be able to make much investment without it. Any thoughts?
August 22, 2005 at 3:39 pm
I have to admit, this is a really interesting blog!
Although I must say, Dave you have way too much free time on your hands; you need a job, ever think of selling Arbonne?
I have a question for the people that are ACTIVELY selling arbonne. I would really like to see some figures if this is at all possible (estimates are fine):
a) How long have you been with arbonne?
b) What is your current status level (C, DM, etc)
c) How much time and money have you invested in your consultant/business?
d) What forms of advertising do you use when your warm leads are all gone?
e) And the big question — how much return on your investment have you received (aka – income)
f) Do you use the puppy dog/REsults approach?
g) Did you frontload (Buy products to sell retail)?
h) What do you think your chance of success is?
Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated!
August 22, 2005 at 5:11 pm
Curious Cat,
This is what selling Arbonne looks like for me…
I have been with Arbonne since May 25,2004. I am an Executive District Manager. I invested $115 in my start month. I purchased an RSVP my second month with my profits from inital training presentations using my uplines RE9 set.
Leads are all about word of mouth but I have an ad in a local newspaper and I run it every Monday. I did the ad because I wanted people to connect me with Arbonne and it has worked. I ask people who love Arbonne for leads…and I follow-up with those leads. What you do with your leads is what makes or breaks your business.
I invest about 25% of my commission check back into my business every month. That includes my ad and my product and my gasoline and my postage expenses. My profits have become bigger the longer I am in Arbonne and the harder I work. My largest commission/bonus check was $1200, but that does not include my retail profits. I have women on my team that have been in Arbonne for 6 months and their checks have been $2400. It's a direct correlation of activity/perseverance. I didn't work the first 3 months of this year. I was grieving the loss of a close friend. My team still worked and I still received a check , their checks were bigger but I still received one. It truly is one of the benefits of network marketing.
I use a combination of "6 for success" and the REsults approach. I truly only work about 10 hours a week on income producing activity. Presentations and at least 4 demo-kits out every week. Unfortunately, reading, training, and checking webstats don't count as income producing activity. You simply have to get on the phone and make contact with people in order for this business to work.
I didn't frontload when I started my business. I gradually built up all of my needed demokits. I couldn't afford to purchase eveything. I took advantage of host specials when I could. I did purchase Business Aids every month for Business Packs. If I could have purchased everything I needed it would have made my initial launch easier.
I am thrilled to tell you that I will be a Regional Vice President. My checks today won't compare to what my checks look like in 6 months. My success volume is consistently in the 30K range. In order for me to be successful I have to help my team become successful. I teach them to be the hardest worker on their team. That makes me work just that much harder. I lead by example.
Hope this helps.
August 22, 2005 at 8:10 pm
I signed up as an Arbonne consultant 3 months ago despite reading this blog first. Luckily, I saw through the negative comments. I've been doing really well and am on my way to making an income large enough for me to quit my day job. I have no prior experience in MLMs, sales, cosmetics…etc. I just educated myself with an open mind.
I deal with friends and family that sound like many of the posts here – that I'm selling snake oil or have joined a cult. But the truth is I'm working hard to better myself and to grow a business for my family's financial freedom. Meanwhile, they're just armchair critics too afraid to leave the comforts of the only thing they know – the falicy that a "stable" 9 to 5 job is all we need.
If you are considering joining Arbonne ask yourself one question: "Why should I take business advice from a bunch of people posting to an internet site that I don't know the first thing about?". I remember reading about people sinking $$$ into stock tips from people posting their "wisdom" on sites. Please, if you can see the opportunity for what it is – and not get swayed by other peoples opinions – than you can make it in this business. Dealing with these dream stealers will be your biggest obsticle to success. If you can do it, you can succeed.
Arbonne's products are fun to sell. I love them. People love them. I sell so much more than I personally ever thought I could. The response people have when you introduce them to the Arbonne products will really prove my point. Many of the testimonials are life changing stories. I believe in selling Arbonne so much, and the response I get from dealing face-to-face just keeps me more and more motivated.
August 22, 2005 at 9:00 pm
I was given what I guess was like a travel sized version (looks like little shampoo packets) of the nUTRIN C RE9 system products by a friend trying to recruit me . Love the product but I am still on the fence. Love your approach. My question is, do you have to buy the expensive kit to share with potential customers as a demo. Or can you give out these more hygenic sample kits? If so, how much do each cost the consultant ?
August 22, 2005 at 10:02 pm
I believe you are using a travel set. Does the set you have come in a cute little orange, brown, and gold shiny bag? If so that is the travel set. If it is a row of packets attached together that is a sample packet.
I use the full size RE9 as my demo-kit. As far as hygiene…I sterilize each set with Isopropyl alcohol between clients. I wipe down all of the outsides of the bottles and the inside/outside of the lids with alcohol and cotton balls. I remove the cap and place it in a bowl of alcohol, letting it soak for a few seconds. I replace the cap. I pump the product twice. I don't use the full size RE9 night creme in my demo-kit. I tear off the RE9 night creme packet from the sample. I put it all the sterilized bottles back into a gold bag that I have wiped down with alcohol. I include instructions and my card…at the drop off I schedule the pick up. When I pick up the demo-kit I give them the remainder of the samples until their order comes in.
When someone is launched on my team and they don't have their products yet…I use mine. The same goes with my demo-kits. I let them use 2 of my demo-kits. BUT only for their first few drop offs. Then with their profits and host specials…they purchase their own complete RE9 sets. The travel set you mentioned is a special. You can purchase it for $45 when the retail order totals $250. I have known of people to buy the travel set with their RE9 set order then they get the full RE9 set working as a demo-kit and use the travel set personally. Hope this helps.
August 23, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Wow, Joel you should know that you are the one that is responsible for reading your policy and procedure manual. You shouldn't take it out on Arbonne.
August 23, 2005 at 4:35 pm
Patty, the word of my upline should be enough to tell me what policy is. I shouldn't have to refer to the fine print. My upline was mistaken, pure and simple. There was nothing malicious about it.
The fact is that Arbonne's internet policy for consultants is blatantly unfair and biased towards those who got in before a certain time. They claim to level the playing field for consultants, but they are actually excluding most of the them and providing an unfair advatange to a dozen or so consultants that ARE allowed to market online.
You don't need to read the fine print to understand that.
August 23, 2005 at 11:37 pm
I'm an Arbonne Consultant, and have personally found that this is the business for me. It's allowed me to quit my job and stay home with my son, so I'm happy. You have to do what's right for you, though. And if it's not…please don't bash it. I don't go around bashing other companies just b/c I think Arbonne is the best answer. I hate when people say it's a scam or whatever, b/c that's not my intention at all with this business. I'm offering people a better life…those that are looking for it and haven't found it. I'm so happy to provide this alternative to so many people, and to be able to provide a high quality product that has had a huge impact on so many of my friends, family, and clients (it's more than just face wash!).
Curious Cat asked the following, and I've inserted my answers.
a) How long have you been with arbonne? – for about 18 months.
b) What is your current status level (C, DM, etc)- Area Manager.
c) How much time and money have you invested in your consultant/business? – I know you won't like this answer, but I'm not quite sure about the money portion. I'm very behind in my paperwork, and so I'd have to go through and add up all of my receipts to give you a straight answer on that. I make sure I never spend more than 25% of my income, though, and that percentage will decrease as I move forward. As for time – I spend 15-20 hours/week "doing Arbonne."
d) What forms of advertising do you use when your warm leads are all gone? – flyers, asking people for referrals, "bumping into people" and giving them samples and business cards, trade shows, craft shows…I've also recently started contacting organizations to use it as a fundraiser. That's shaping up to be a very nice source of contacts for me, and it's awesome b/c I also get to give back to an organization.
e) And the big question — how much return on your investment have you received (aka – income)- What exactly are you asking? Monthly income? Total so far? I think there's some sort of DSA member rule about revealing income, so I'm slightly hesitant to say, but since my income pretty much matches Arbonne's consultant summary, I can say, I think. I make about $1,500 per month. Not exactly big money, I know, but I'm still in the building stages. Here's Arbonne's Independent Consultant Compensation Summary: http://www.arbonne.com/company/iccs.html. There's definitely a DSA rule against making income CLAIMS (i.e. you can't say "you can make $50,000/mo!!), so Arbonne has now started to offer documentation of what their consultants are ACTUALLY making. And I personally know NVP's that are making the company average.
f) Do you use the puppy dog/REsults approach? Yes, I am trying it now, but I've built my business so far through presentations.
g) Did you frontload (Buy products to sell retail)? No. I paid my $29 fee, and then I used my commissions from a REALLY good month to buy 3 RE9 systems for the pup approach. I discourage frontloading in my organization. I tell people they can sign up with that many sets and get to work to be successful, but that it is not necessary. I didn't build my business that way, and the 4 NVPs above me didn't either. I usually encourage people to schedule 2-3 presentations as a "launch week" and use the profits from that presentation to cover their fee, some catalog costs, and to buy some products. Plus, I personally provide the catalogs and supplies for their first three presentations, so basically they can sign up and not actually have to invest their own money. I'm dedicated to doing my business this way b/c I know so many people who simply can't afford to sink money into a business startup.
h) What do you think your chance of success is? 100%. It's just a matter of time. But, even if it takes me 4 years…it's better than my previous prospects. I had a very low paying job with little hope for advancement (I quit July 14th). But now, my outlook is wonderful, and I get to work my business in between zoo outings and finger painting with my 2 year old. My current goal is RVP by December. It's looking very good…my volume is a third of the way there.
Note: There are some newer consultants who are pushing the frontloading thing a little bit too hard, in my opinion. I think it's very reasonable to want to invest in your business, but not necessarily to that degree (and people should have the choice to join and not spend that much money). But I believe that slow and steady wins the race. By building a foundation of dedicated customers, wholesalers, and business builders, I am guaranteeing that I am not building the "house of cards" that so many MLM skeptics warn against.
August 24, 2005 at 10:43 am
I have to completely agree with Joel. They are loosing out on a market sector if you ask me. There are people that prefer NOT do do face-to-face business (I being one of them – if I can order online and avoid a sales pitch, I will).
I've also noticed that their agreement states that their consultants cannot use the "Arbonne" name in PPC advertising, but if you go to Yahoo, Google and type in "Arbonne", you see a bunch of women fighting over the key words. So is this another exception to their rules?
August 24, 2005 at 1:58 pm
Curious Cat,
I read your blog and what you've posted here. It sounds like Arbonne just isn't what you are looking for. You should do more research and find a product more suitable to online sales. Go to Joel's main page; he's got all kinds of opportunities, both in advertisements and some he's posting. Anything dealing with skin care should probably be sold in a venue that lends itself to the ability to see and use the product, as well as have direct contact with others who use it.
I agree with you on the frustrating phone call, but you had just as much trouble with Yahoo. Big companies suck in that respect. But, you should still send them a complaint letter. Companies can't fix things if they don't know what's broken.
As for the product you don't even want anymore, just sell it on Ebay (I know they don't like that, but people still do it), or use it as your Christmas gifts.
Have fun with your next experiment, but maybe do some more research to make sure it's something you're willing to do to get the desired results.
August 24, 2005 at 2:04 pm
Joel& all,
Most of the Arbonne approved websites that you refer to are great, and I am thankful they exist. They are not competition (at least the legitemate ones are not.) As a consultant, I refer to them often and send my consultants to them too. Why? Because they greatly help me improve my business.
These site can recruit, educate and promote the Arbonne business, but they can not sell products directly on their site. The also can not link to the store. They also have to abide by the rules against paying for search words, advertising on other sites, using Arbonne's name in other websites…etc.
Most of these sites are owned by NVP's and they are used primarily to communicate with their team and provide people like me with a ton of great but "unofficial" training material, copies of presentations that I can review, and lots of tips on how to sponsor…etc. There are clear guidelines with Arbonne on what these sites can and cannot do. Arbonne did allow some older sites to remain, and I'm glad they exist.
But there are many Arbonne consultants who abuse the policies. They create their own websites and online stores, post online ads, buy search words, and sell on auction sites. I was thrilled to read that Arbonne cracked down on you, as it gives me hope they will do the same with the hundreds of other consultants who either don't educate themselves (and this is their business therefor their responsiblity, not their uplines), or who intentionally break the rules.
Arbonne may be missing a great opportunity, but if you familiarize yourself with the term "channel conflict" you may begin to see why companies have to focus on using compatible distribution models. If people could buy Arbonne online easily, the perception to a direct seller would be its stiff competition and therefor Arbonne has less business opportunity. And if people don't see a business opportunity with Arbonne, people will go elsewhere. And if people go elsewhere…. well, you can figure it out from here.
Lastly, skin care products sell best using the direct method, not online. Skin care products require a bit more education and consultation than an average product. (The people buying Arbonne online already are educated by a direct seller like me!) Vaccumes, books, CDs, spy cams…etc. do not require personalized consultations and are perfect products for selling online. So, I don't believe Arbonne is missing much opportunity. The direct selling model is best for this product type, and they are ensuring consultants like me have plenty of opportunity.
All the best,
August 24, 2005 at 2:28 pm
Curious Cat – it's unfortunate that you had that experience. This is a difficult month for us…we just switched over to a new shipping system and have experienced glitches. Naturally, the phone lines are tied up and people are being placed on hold for a very long time. However, they are working around the clock to fix the issues – they've hired extra shifts and even the VP of marketing is packing boxes – and they've hired a new Customer Service manager to handle the phone issues you've mentioned.
I firmly believe that if you had started this experiment a few months ago, you wouldn't have had these issues! However, we're experiencing growing pains right now and the unfortunate side effect is situations like these.
Also, I agree with Leah…if you're looking for something you can just set up and let make money for you, it's not going to happen with Arbonne. You have to put in a lot of work. I don't know how well internet marketing companies work, but I wouldn't imagine you could just set up a website and magically make a ton of money overnight. Arbonne is a person-to-person business…you can't just set up a website, send out some flyers, and expect to be successful. Please understand this and don't badmouth the company just b/c your method of working the business didn't work…and besides, you only gave it less than a week!
August 24, 2005 at 2:32 pm
p.s. what's ppc advertising?
August 24, 2005 at 4:06 pm
PPC Advertising: "Pay Per Click", these are the ads you see at the top of Yahoo, and on the side at google.
I had researched arbonne, and that is why I choose to do my experiment with their company. My attempts were NOT to simply sell their product online, I wanted to get leads from using the website, which I did quite well. When I stopped today, I had 36 leads. My goal was to get 100 by the end of the month. I will probably just forward those to my upline and let them handle it.
I didn't expect this to be a "get rich" quick thing at all. I expected to put A LOT of time and effort into it as you could see from the blog. The whole point of the experiment was so that other people would know how much time and effort it really takes to do mlm.
I'm sure if the customer service experience would have been better, I probably would have continued longer than a week with the experiment, but NO company should customer service that poor if the expect people to sell their products. I don't care who they are (Yes, that means Yahoo too).
If a company is experiencing issues with system upgrades, shipping, etc. they need to let people know this when they call or send an e-mail, not just slap them on hold and leave them there. Perhaps then I would have been a little more forgiving. (Nor, should they have to have their independent consultants like you TS, apologizing for them. That is their job.)
For those of you doing well with Arbonne, that's great I'm proud of you. However, I personally would not recommend them based on my experience with their company. That is simply my opinion which I am entitiled to, and you are entitled to agree or disagree.
August 24, 2005 at 10:02 pm
Karen and Curious Cat… I have replies for both of you!
Karen, check out these sites.
Most of them blatantly sell the products or link to the sales pages. Sorry, but this is just unfair.
Curious Cat, the people bidding on the Arbonne keyword are not selling Arbonne. If you wanted to sell Avon or Mary Kay, you would bid on Arbonne because you know people are looking for skin care products. Only Arbonne consultants are not allowed to leverage smart Internet marketing.
That's the facts 🙂
August 25, 2005 at 4:04 pm
Hi Joel,
Actually, it seems on yahoo (I haven't checked google) that they were all removed. But there were about 6 Arbonne Consultants bidding on the word "Arbonne", I noticed that if you do "Arbonne Cosmetics" there is still two:
http://www.ourfuture.myarbonne.com and
Same for "Arbonne Products", you get the following sites:
These are definitely arbonne consultants, Selling arbonne products.
Guess whoever is in charge of policing missed those…
August 26, 2005 at 7:31 am
Curious Cat,
Anything called myarbonne is an Arbonne registered site. Joel mentioned in his very first post that Arbonne charges a $39 fee to submit your myarbonne site to a list of search engines. No policing necessary; those sites are legit, as is the fact that they are on a search.
August 26, 2005 at 3:34 pm
Welcome, all, to the bloggersphere, where you don't have to prove credibility, conscience or purpose. The fad of late is to incite emotional responses from those who are innocently caught up in the proliferate web of deceipt. I, for one, prefer to assist with the advancement of meaningful dialogue with all who have chosen to pursue truth about Arbonne International and to provide, as does Dave, reasons to investigate opportunity rather than to endorse negative and contentious commentary.
Cynics, by nature, can only contribute from a basis of disillusionment and disappointment in life. Then it becomes necessary to solicit allies of the same mindset in order to validate their position. As distasteful as that may seem, we are witnessing that dynamic on this site, and rest assured, many hundreds of others as well.
The verbal volley about Arbonne International and it's legitimacy is not the issue here. Rather, it's about the need of a few to poison a hopeful candidate's honest inquiry as to the potential life-changing possibilities offered by such companies as Arbonne.
I invite any and all tuned in to this local station to investigate the way Japan markets products and to look at how the rest of the world sees the future of direct marketing.
Arbonne is not your mother's Mary Kay or Amway.
August 26, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Whew! Dave, when I read these postings all I see in your responses are; "golf, blah, blah,blah, SUV, blah blah blah, $$$$$$$, blah blah blah. You are not helping your case or Arbonne's at all. If you are truly a happy, content-to-not-be-working person, why are you wasting your time here? Your thumbs must be in agony, it would take me all day to respond with my cell phone/blackberry. (Seeing how you spend all of your time at the golf course.) BTW, Watch out for that oncoming golf cart!!
August 27, 2005 at 4:18 pm
Arbonne will eventually crash and burn like everything else. I know a lady who has been involved in an MLM for years and years and years and she works HARD trying to make it work and still believes that it can. The biggest check she has ever received was…….((((drummroll plllleease)))) $43.00! Talk about big bucks. I couldn't make that in an hour where I work! YEEHAW! Sign me up!
August 27, 2005 at 5:52 pm
I have been sitting at my computer for over 2 hours reading these blogs from the beginning. Unfortunately, I stopped on Aug 5th and will return later to read the rest. I have just started my Arbonne business and have been enlightened by everyones comments. Dave, you are a wealth of knowledge and I can't believe how much time you have spent defending Arbonne (the products sell themselves). The rest of you may bring up good points, but overall, nobody achieves their dreams by not giving 100% and with negative thoughts. I can't wait to begin this journey and I will look forward to meeting Dave in the future. Best of luck to the rest of you and I hope you will begin to see the glass half full instead of the glass half empty.
August 27, 2005 at 6:48 pm
I have noticed much animosity among this message board. I believe it is the lack of self-acumen or more commonly known as self-motivation. Those who believe in failure in their newfound endeavors will ultimately end with failure. As you know the �doubter� will always doubt, just as you cannot teach a dog new tricks. Lets observe Joel; he has excelled in the online Internet world and some various unknown tidbits. Moreover, from my personal experience from family and past to present coworkers, Internet based professionals lack that person-to-person zeal. In saying that, I believe you understand my line of reasoning here; or at least the picture should be clearer.
Now some facts for the doubters: Firstly, if for any reason you wish to terminate your business relationship with Arbonne Intl. you may do so. Secondly, if for some reason you decided to purchase this huge $ amount of products that I keep hearing about you may return it with a letter of resignation for a 90% refund. Lastly, I am not quite sure if Joel actually read the SuccessPlan and Policies & Procedures Manual, especially, to Sections 8 � 8.2. Therefore, for all you individuals that think this company is a pyramid scheme tell me what type would let you do that. You do not have to ask your sponsor, DM, AM, RVP, or even NVP to get an �OK�. This is your own Arbonne Independent Consultant business and you may quit at anytime and purchase as little or nothing as you like. Actually, look at Arbonne�s Independent Consultant Code of Ethics, [five] �I will not advise or encourage excessive buying at unrealistic levels. I will resell at least 70% of all products or services that I purchase prior to purchasing additional products or services.�
In addition, you mention that even the VPs at the top must spend money to be able to qualify showing that money must always come in. In fact, this is so the person still is actively out their selling and promoting the business just as you do. Did this reason ever cross your mind? You can also pass up your sponsor, DM, AM, RVP, and hit NVP or even ENVP. Furthermore, some individuals have numbers or think they have facts on $ that AM make on the $10,000 central volume and where the money is. An AM might not have any generations or they could have up to three (3) generations. Lets take a quick lesson on AM, as I have below.
Your Central also meaning your personal sales included. Consultant (s) 4%, District 8%, and Area 6 %. Now, if you have another direct AM you promoted out to your same level you now have a 1st Generation and you now get 8% from that District and 6% from that Area. AM pays out up to three (3) generations.
Well Joel, I am checking out of this place because it is obvious you did not do your homework. Next time please open your manual before making yourself look even more ignorant. If you ever have any questions, Arbonne home office is always pleased to help.
Thank you to all the people who kept the spirit of Arbonne alive on this message board. You are the true leaders of yourself and your future and lets not forget about being a mentor for those who are willing.
Truly yours,
August 27, 2005 at 7:16 pm
I have been looking into Arbonne because my best friend is in hook, line and sinker. She even skipped her mortgage payment to get started and buy her pups, etc, etc. I have a good job (I work from home) but Arbonne preaches financial freedon versus self employment, and who doesn't want to be financially free? I work hard at my job, often seven days a week. My friend is a very level headed woman, but I am concerned about the fact that she is willing to bankrupt herself for Arbonne. I finally attended her party and told her that I would be researching Arbonne this weekend. (sorry, Dave, I'm sure you will be attacking me next, but you really blew it as far as supporting Arbonne as far as I am concerned, with your droning on and on and your belittling of people and their opinions) My friend calls me up just this afternoon (while I am researching at her request) and tells me, maybe you don't have enough time to put into this. I think what she really means is money. I am NOT going to skip my mortgage payment for anyone. Any comments? I am still considering Arbonne, actually am signed up as a consultant, just not a "business builder". Now Dave, please be gentle. I am not an evil person.
August 27, 2005 at 9:45 pm
Before you concern yourself with making money with any company, you should try the products first. When you have a terminal condition as I have, you don't know how wonderful it is to find products that make you feel better. That's why I became a consultant. I can now purchase products at a discount and also help others with health concerns. No person has forced me to do anything. I just know that the products are good.
August 27, 2005 at 10:51 pm
This is in response to a reader. I am sure nobody in Arbonne would suggest that you skip your house payment to start this business. Actually, my upline suggested using a credit card so you wouldn't be using any money out of pocket right away and you can pay it back as you earn money. I think your friend is just concerned that you may not be thinking as positively as she is. She is right than being negative is contagious but she needs to be realistic and know that she may not make enough money to make her house payment. As David has mentioned this is not a get rich quick business so you are right to be concerned. Just don't let that be a reason to not become part of her team. She sounds like the type who wants to run in and not look and you want to walk and take everything in. Best of luck to you both.
August 27, 2005 at 10:54 pm
CC you are in my prayers! I am glad that you found Arbonne!
August 28, 2005 at 12:39 am
CC: I agree that Arbonne's products ARE good. My beef is not with the products. It is with the consultant's terms for conducting business online and the unfair advantage they give to some consultants over others.
A Reader: Please don't judge Arbonne based on Dave or me or any of the negative posters. Research it for yourself and then determine if you are the type of person to work this type of program. People have risked bankruptcy for many enterprises they believe in. It's part of being an entreprenuer, so there is nothing wrong with that. You just have to make sure it is right for you!
P.S. – I still can't believe how many replies this blog entry has received. Perhaps I should start a real arbonne message board system?
August 28, 2005 at 8:26 am
I would love a dedicated Arbonne message system. About 8 months ago Arbonne had a chat room but took it down because of negative comments. I wish they would have left it alone. There was great questions and comments posted, much like this sight. The negative is just part of reality. Can't make everyone happy.
Thank you for this blog. It has made me look a little closer at my Arbonne business. After reading everything and taking "inventory" I'm still glad that I took the Arbonne road.
Also, I had a question for you…How is your Arbonne business? Your initial post suggested that you would not be renewing your Arbonne website. Did you end up renewing it? Did you renew as a consultant? Has this blog generated interest in your Arbonne website? I'm just curious.
August 28, 2005 at 8:41 am
Joel, what an absolutely wonderful idea!! Start a "real" Arbonne blog. I have been reading this one for several weeks now, and I am impressed by the level of knowledge that has been advanced here about Arbonne. I'm also impressed by the level of disinformation that some people put forward to establish (read: promote) their own brand of "information."
Here's my story and I'm sticking to it. Arbonne is a wonderful product. I have been blessed with great skin (thank you, ancestors), but about three years ago as I approached my 60th birthday, I noticed that my skin had started looking a little tired. Since I am a big believer in the use of the internet, I went looking for products that would help my skin. I have tried many of the products promoted on the internet as anti-aging. None seemed to live up to its promise. I also tried many of the products at Walgreen's and other drug stores. They, too, didn't give me results that could be termed "great". My sister suggested I try some products at msnbc.com. They were tremendously expensive (Arbonne is much cheaper), and after using them for several months, I didn't see much of a change.
Then I happened to see the website of Kathy Whittington (www.ascendingwings.com) aka one of the "grandfathered in" sites that Arbonne allows. I had never heard of Arbonne products. None of my friends had shared this great secret with me if they knew it.
I signed up as a consultant on Kathy's website and ordered products to try, at 35% discount. All I can say about my skin is "WOW", which is what my husband says, and what most of my friends I have seen in the last four months have said. Seeing is believing!! My only complaint is that my bathroom is yellow and blue, and the orange anti-aging product bottles don't fit in very well with the color scheme. Ha-ha.
The products are wonderful — and they do what Arbonne says they will do. I really didn't join Arbonne to "sell" products. But, it is almost impossible not to sell products when your skin has made such a dramatic improvement in a few months. My friends just have to try the products. I sign them up as consultants to get the discount, and here I am with an Arbonne business. My best friend of 50 years has become an Arbonne consultant with me (not our first business endeavor together), and we are ready to make this business part of our plans for retirement. She is using the products and her skin is looking wonderful.
Who cares if there is a "laboratory" in Switzerland? Who cares if the business was started in Switzerland or on the moon? The fact is the products work. And they work without harsh chemicals, animal testing, and other things that most of us care about.
My friend and I are using the "REsults" approach and it is fun and fantastic to be able to help our friends regain the skin they had months, or years ago.
To those who are struggling to make a decision on this business, I would say: Try the products, use them as instructed for a number of weeks or months, and then make a decision about this business. You may be surprised at the reaction you get from friends, family, and even casual acquaintances.
If you are a "Red Hat" lady, contact me and let's talk!!
My sponsor, Kathy Whittington, just promoted to Executive National Vice President on July 1. Congratulations to her and her tremendous organization. While I don't have such grand expectations, with Arbonne, who knows????
Best of luck, Joel. I'm sorry the internet promotion thing didn't work out. I got dinged too for not reading the rules closely enough. But now I have a website where my friends and clients can get information and can buy or sign up as they choose.
If anyone wants information on my business model, please contact me via e-mail.
Best wishes to new consultants, and those struggling to become consultants.
August 28, 2005 at 9:08 am
I somehow missed CC's post. Oh,CC, not knowing your condition, you are exactly right — anything that helps you feel better is a good thing. One of the biggest reasons my skin had started to look tired was due to chemotherapy in 2000. It certainly takes its toll.
And although I have survived almost six years after breast cancer, living is day-to-day for anyone with a life-threatening disease.
I just wanted to pop back in and say, "Keep the faith." Best of luck to you in your business, and with your condition, whatever it may be.
I will put you in my "circle of light."
August 28, 2005 at 11:48 am
Well, my decision has been made. My friend came to my house last night because I had some questions for her and was not accepting everything she was saying as the gospel truth. My husband and I both felt that we were trying to be "converted", for lack of a better term. We all mutually decided that Arbonne was not for me. Then I receive a phone call from this same friend about an hour after she left, wanting me to meet with someone higher up. I said I couldn't because I had to work. Now I AM A LOSER, my faith has been attacked, and I have been accused of jeopardizing my friendship with her. Needless to say, Arbonne is not for me, and unfortunately I have also lost a friend. Please do not get me wrong, I wish everyone well who decides to pursue the Arbonne path. I just feel that if you step on people and hurt them in order to attain your goal, I don't want any part of it.
August 28, 2005 at 2:36 pm
I�m happy to see the discussion has pretty much been focused on real issues this past week. A lot of good questions and answers were posted. Some of you would be happy to know I�ve been too busy to pay much attention and won�t be back until September 7th. While there are some comments I�d love to respond to, it�s not about me, so I won�t bother. I just want to thank those who had kind words for me who understand my perspective and objectives in what I wrote.
I will respond to Shannon though, who took issue with my �stereotyping� of women a ways back, because I want to clear that up. I really didn�t mean it to be derogatory if that�s how you interpreted it, and I didn�t say emotions are not reliable; I said they are �not ALWAYS reliable� which implies that sometimes they are. I probably said it carelessly, but what I meant was emotions or feelings can easily be affected by inaccurate or incomplete data, past experience and empathy toward others and that those experiences don�t often apply to the current situation. I made that conclusion because of the comments posted here by some women. I don�t discount �gut feelings� or intuition at all. I just wouldn�t rely on it myself without facts unaffected by emotion. My comments were meant to be a caution, not a criticism. But just so you think I get these ideas out of thin air, let me include a section of an article by a relationship counselor, Phillip Gordon, which says what I meant a little better……..
�The fact of the matter is that when it comes to making decisions, men and women use very different approaches to drawing conclusions. A scientific study conducted by the Center For Women's Business in 1994, revealed that 53% of female business owners emphasize "right brain" thinking, which means that they tend to stress creativity and sensitivity when dealing with decision-making issues.
On the other hand, over 70% of male business owners emphasize "left brain" thinking. This style stresses the use of analytical skills, processing information methodically and developing procedures, which all make for a strong decision-making technique.
Most men use logic, tangible evidence, and plain old problem-solving techniques. Many women, it seems, rely more on their creative and intuitive side, in the process of coming to the conclusion that they are right.�
Gordon goes on to say that women more often than not come to the correct decision using that method so it�s not a necessarily a bad thing. Anyway Shannon, I hope clarified the point I was making even if you don�t agree.
August 28, 2005 at 5:45 pm
I am a new Arbonne consultant and read your post concerning Michael Oliver's book. Have you or anyone on your team tried his "Power Up Your Dialogue" series? It is a good bit more expensive than the book and I want to know if I would be getting really helpful information before I spend that much.
August 28, 2005 at 5:48 pm
A reader,
I am sorry you were hurt by your "friend"… not really a friend if you ask me.
And this is the problem with MLM in general. Most people are not mature enough to handle it. While there is often talk of "helping others out", it often turns into "using others to help myself". It's greed, pure and simple, at the cost of relationships.
I don't think that is a reflection on Arbonne as a company or their product line. It is a sad reflection on human nature fostered by a business model which many people are not equipped to handle in a proper manner.
August 28, 2005 at 5:57 pm
I am still an Arbonne consultant as there are a trickle of orders that come in, covering the costs of the site.
Your story is a perfect example of the unfair advantage that the "grandfathered" sites have.
Ascending Wings and the others don't have to do anything to get new consultants signed up. Yet, Arbonne claimed it would be unfair for me to use a web site to generate leads.
I may launch those forums after all. Of course, I couldn't use the site to promote my Arbonne business. But it could be a valuable resource for people.
August 28, 2005 at 9:07 pm
Thank you very much for your comments. I want you to know that in no way do I hold Arbonne responsible for the actions of my "friend". I have actually tried a few products and they are good. It's one of the reasons I was considering a future with Arbonne. The bottom line for me, I guess, is that I believe in what goes around, comes around, and if my "friend" is any indication of the representation of Arbonne in the future, it will crash and burn, and more importantly, friendships will be over, bridges will be burned, and there will be a whole lot of hurt people in the aftermath. You are right, MLMs are not for everyone. I guess I have too much "heart" to be involved. I am not condemning anyone and again, I wish everyone here the very best. Thank you for all of your comments, Joel et all, and thank you for listening to my little story.
August 28, 2005 at 10:06 pm
I�ve got only a few minutes but I want to say to �a reader� that I too am sorry for your bad experience with regard to your friend. I agree with Joel�s comments about some people not being mature or skilled enough, or experienced enough, to handle properly the process of introducing the products and business. Remember, most people getting into this business have no prior experience in regard to sales, or even business in general and they allow their zeal to become overbearing. I�d tell your friend you were put off by her presentation and that she needs to get some training or she�ll get no where in her business.
This is why I am now highly recommending Michael Oliver�s book �How to Sell Network Marketing� The more I read it, re-read it and study it, the more I have come to believe it is a MUST read for anyone in this business. So please�read it! It�s on Amazon for just $13.50.
To answer you Michelle, no I have not tried his �Power Up Your Dialogue� series. But I imagine after reading the book it would be a great additional training. I�m sure it would be worth the investment, but only you can decide if it�s the right thing to do.
Aloha everyone!
August 28, 2005 at 10:17 pm
Hi, again, Joel:
Well, thanks for really being interested in hosting a forum for real info about Arbonne. I think you are a perfect host — with a calm approach to things.
As far as your dislike of the Arbonne "double standard", I guess that's just the way it is. I don't particularly feel aggrieved because I didn't intend it to be a really commercial site (with affiliations and so forth), other than that my guests could go there, and get a link to the shopping page, where they have to either register or sign-in, or to the consultant sign-up page. I got dinged because I used Arbonne as one of the key words for my site. But when they told me to stop, I did. I didn't like it much, but it's the rule. And everyone knows, rules is rules!! 🙂
I hope you can figure out a way to use your site to your benefit. Good luck!!
August 29, 2005 at 6:16 pm
Your story amazes me, and I am so sorry that you didn't get a more positive experience when learning of the Arbonne business opportunity. There is a lot of training available for your friend (and all Arbonne consultants) on how to PROPERLY approach people about the business, but it seams like she has not yet taken the time to learn the do's and don'ts of sponsoring. Under no circumstances should friendships be lost. Arbonne should not be so high on her priority list. I am sorry you went through this!
You also mentioned not having enough time to do Arbonne. That is the #1 reason people give for not making time to do Arbonne, and it is a true concern for most of us. But let me ask you this – if you KNEW that in 2 to 3 years you could be earning $10K or more a month working part-time, would you be more willing to find the time to learn this business? I'm not guaranteeing success with Arbonne, but I am guaranteeing failure when someone doesn't try. Many (many, many, many)people are making $10K+ per month after only a few years. All of them put in a lot of hard work to get there, and they all allowed themselves to take risks even when they were not comfortable. They were coachable, motivated and focused on the bigger picture. They didn't let people (or blogs!) get them down and stand in their way. I think your friend didn't paint the bigger picture well for you. But if you think you could paint that picture for others, you will be successful with Arbonne. I wish I could talk to you to tell you more. All the best!
Karen (EDM with Arbonne)
August 29, 2005 at 8:27 pm
Thank you EVERYONE for the sharing, the positive, negative, etc. I have absolutely loved this website. My story is a little different, I'm an Arbonne consultant who is stopping doing this business. Currently I'm at DM, 1/2 way to Area. Why stop? Because I don't like the direction things are going in with Arbonne. The new REsults approach, aka puppy, is basically front loading and really resembles a pyramid. The reason (or so it appears to me and I've done lots of looking at this) that so many are rapidly advancing is they are bringing on many new people who are buying lots of pups which rapidly inflates the volume. So, there is discouragement if you are not advancing as "fast".
Also, (fyi I'm in Orlando), we are being "encouraged" to sign everyone up as a wholesale consultant – thus forgoing our 35% profit – our "our right now" money. The logic is – if you don't, someone else will. Thus, until you get to DM, you will only see an 8% of total vol. So much for the 35% initial profit.
Arbonne has a great product and I will stay a consultant to get products wholesale. However, with the current way things are being promoted, I will not encourage anyone to get into this business UNLESS they don't need the money for quite awhile. If they take the long view, i.e. OVER a year, then great. However, I don't know that many people who are that well off they can work 10-15 hours a week and NOT get paid for over a year.
Thanks for listening and for sharing. I've already told my upline/downline I'm out. I wish them and all others the best.
Joel – thanks for a great forum.
Hugs, Tina
August 29, 2005 at 10:25 pm
Can someone please tell me, without spewing venom and getting completely defensive, why there is so much talk about Christianity and Jesus in relation to Arbonne?
August 29, 2005 at 10:39 pm
That's a legitimate question "just wondering"!
I don't know about the rest of the country, but it seems that approximately 40% or more of Arbonne's high-end consultants are in the Bible Belt, especially central Oklahoma. In fact, there may be more people driving Arbonne white Mercedes at my church than at any other. I'm not passing judgment either way. I'm just saying this to indicate that there are many people of the Christian faith in Arbonne. It only makes sense that their faith would come out in their business dealings as well.
August 29, 2005 at 11:11 pm
I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told…
August 30, 2005 at 3:17 am
How do I buy the products at 65% off?
"is 65% of Retail Volume." on:
It's confusing with all the bonus/freebies.
August 30, 2005 at 3:21 am
how do you set up a blog like this…I have some server space to use.
what's hte security code for…do?
August 30, 2005 at 7:46 am
Hi Tina. I am so sorry to hear that you are dropping out of Arbonne. You have every right to feel concerns about how your uplines are promoting the business. I agree the puppy approach can seem very much pyramid like in the way that they are pushing it. When you are telling people to buy a bunch of them and telling them to tell people to buy a bunch of them and so on…you aren't really moving a product you are moving the business. I have a different approach that you may want to try, that takes the "selling" out of it. I bought two puppys to share with people so that they can get an idea of the great quality of the product. If they like it I tell them that they can replace everyday products that they are going to spend money on anyway with Arbonnes safe and more beneficial products. As you know when somone signs up for wholesale they get the rsvp deal, $700 of product for $350. They can get a lot of stuff for a very reasonable price. All you are doing is sharing a good deal with your friend and they will probably share it with their friends. The nice thing about this approach is that it is about the product and it will continue to move the product as people need to restock. I have had great luck with this method. I'm sorry if your mind has already been made up and I almost can't blame you for being frustrated. Your upline is not representing the company in an ethical way,but I would love to help you or anyone else out if you have any questions my email is [email protected]
August 30, 2005 at 12:50 pm
Rich asked, "How do I buy the products at 65% off?
"is 65% of Retail Volume." on:
It's confusing with all the bonus/freebies."
That whole line is "Override Volume, on which overrides are calculated, is 65% OF [not "off"] Retail Volume." You can't purchase the products at 65% off. 65% OF Retail Volume is what we receive our overrides on.
As far as Arbonne being a "christian" company…a consultant may have said that in reference to her upline. It's not affiliated with any particular religion, though in these kinds of companies (more so party plans and direct selling than MLM), you tend to get a greater number of Christian women involved b/c they have the greater tendency to be less "career" oriented and more oriented toward finding something that will keep them home with their children. Please, no one jump on me for saying that…I realize it's a generalization, but hey, it's true!
August 30, 2005 at 12:59 pm
Addendum to my comment above: I was trying to provide facts, so sorry if it didn't come across nicely.
There ARE ways to get some products at 50% – 80% off, but those are based on special offers and reaching different levels of sales. Just wanted to clear that up before another consultant corrected me!
And one more thing…to "a reader"…I'm sorry that your experience was not good. And I also know that you said you're not passing judgment, but the one statement you said really bothered me…you said you have too much "heart" to do this business. I realize that you had a bad experience, and that in the very next breath you said you weren't passing judgment, but that statement…please don't assume that's how everyone in MLM is. I realize there are some overzealous people, some dishonest people…but there are also really good people who are working hard to make a living and a better life for themselves, their families, and yes their friends and acquaintances. For a lot of us, we just believe in Arbonne so much that we want to give everyone ample opporunity to truly understand what we're offering. And that unfortunately goes a little overboard at times.
I do this business because I DO have heart. I'd like to be able to help others and not just go to the job I previously had that I hated. Being miserable all the time didn't help anyone, especially myself. I feel a huge amount of responsibility in relation to what this business has provided me. Right now, I'm not rolling in the dough or driving a fancy car, but I HAVE been provided with the opportunity to no longer have to work my full time job. And I take that luxury very seriously…I have been blessed with time, so I believe God wants me to use it to help others. Which is why right now typing this, for example, I'm covered with insulation from helping with a Habitat build!
It IS possible to do great things with MLM.
August 30, 2005 at 1:29 pm
TS: Sorry if my comment was misconstrued. I truly am not passing judgement on anyone!! I have been told many times that I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and I think that was more what I was trying to convey, in that I do not think that I am personally strong enough, rather than I think I'm better than anyone else!!
August 30, 2005 at 5:28 pm
I signed up with Arbonne last month. The products are great. I was thrilled by my products arriving 2 days after I ordered them. Then, it all went to hell! They upgraded their software and shipping came to a halt. The entire month of August was a wash. Partial shipments were made. I was on hold for over an hour and when I finally got a rep, she put me on hold and never came back. I'm still waiting on items I ordered a month ago, with no update on when to expect them. I e-mailed them numerous times inquiring about orders and never got responses. Plus, I realized all my ideas on how to sell the products were against the rules. I too had thought of Ebay or doing shows. My "upline" certainly didn't explain it at all, and I wasn't sure what I'd gotten into until after I was already signed up. Plus, my upline breaks rules herself, so not much of a role model there. It's frustrating! I love the products, but I'm not sure I want to put my reputation on the line in association with a company that doesn't deliver. I say, approach this one cautiously. I think it's a great business for the stay-at-home moms, but for a serious business person, there are just too many restrictions and reasons for concern.
August 30, 2005 at 9:02 pm
Just wanted to let you know that on the Arbonne web site under consultants, it explained about the delay and told everyone that orders are being caught up this week. It also stated that you would have an additional month to reach the next qualifying level (just as if August was never on the calendar).
I guess I look at this as a Christian type of work because I truly want the people in my downline to be as successful as myself or more so if they are really motivated. If I can help someone else achieve their goals then awesome. Yes, we receive compensation for their efforts but someone below us can kick our butts. Say I put 2 people under me and one starts at a run and gets 4 wide and six deep but i can't get another person directly under me, the person on the run will make way more money than me. I think I am accurate on that so somebody correct me if I am wrong. It may not happen much but it can.
August 31, 2005 at 1:05 am
As a fairly new consultant myself, I was disappointed with the glitches that went on and on during the system change. But, when I complained to my sponsor about it, she set me straight. The glitches that were encountered in the change were totally unexpected. Apparently, the new server and the old server did not "talk" and so the new server was sending out information that products were out of stock which were not, and other anomalies.
However, everyone in management at Arbonne (and their families) have pitched in to get things straightened out. Both Bob (CEO & Chairman of the board) and Rita (President) and their families have been working everyday (and every weekend) to straighten out the mess. This means hand picking products from the warehouse, which is meant to be automated with the new system. However, if the new system thinks the product is out of stock, it won't be picked by the automated picker.
Imagine being a service rep at Arbonne over the last four weeks, with 300,000 angry Arbonne consultants out there, all wishing to tell their story, and explain why they MUST have their products immediately.
Most of us consultants only had a (much smaller) number of customers to deal with, who were wanting their products. I can tell you that in the few months before August that I have been a consultant, my orders were always on time, with very few backordered items, and most of the backorders were for my own use. 🙂
Take heart, Mary, it sounds now like things will be back to normal very soon, and if you joined in August, you will have the month of September to qualify and to get your RSVP and so on. It will be (as Bob so aptly put it in his e-mail) as if the month of August wasn't on the calendar.
Good luck to you. Please don't let this glitch dishearten you. You sound like you will be a STAR!!
As far as Arbonne's reputation: I did a fair amount of research before signing up. I read nothing of note that would indicate that Arbonne is anything other than what it appears to be: A GREAT skin care company. I read and reread the website until my eyes were ready to roll back in my head. I looked up every shred of info I could get on the net (not from hype types) about the company, its background, the background of the people at the top, and the EOAs on the vice presidents. I thought it was pretty impressive and still do.
I certainly don't think you will be "putting your reputation on the line" with a company that doesn't deliver. I have been a paralegal with law firms for many years, and every time there is a system switch, it's a disaster for a few days, few weeks and sometimes even a few months. With a huge system such as Arbonne is putting in place for its consultants, a month doesn't seem like an overwhelming amount of time to me.
Best advice: Go to Arbonne University and take ALL the courses. Read the Policies and Procedures and make sure you understand them. Don't take anyone's word for what is allowed and is not allowed; see it in writing. Make sure you get the straight facts.
My goodness, I have gone on and on. So sorry, but you sound as though you could do well in this business if you had some mentoring by someone who is not "breaking the rules herself." BEST, best wishes to you.
August 31, 2005 at 11:34 am
Hi everyone.
Wow what a lot of comments about this subject. I have been concerned and somewhat frustrated about the Arbonne topic and this seems to be my outlet to get this all off of my chest.
I have studied nutrition and detoxing on my own for 10 years since I have had some health problems. That has led me to begin my BA degree in holistic nutrition AND continue into herbalism. I continue to learn so much and in the process my heart has been geared toward educating people and helping them educate THEMSEVLES making wise choices, thus improving health and life. I am apprecciative of Arbonne's attempt to provide a better product by leaving out certain chemicals and animal products. Also the botanicals and herbal base of their products is great! I am also aware that it helps people make money who really are in a bind and that it builds confidence in the consultants. BUT…my beef with Arbonne is that they seem to only give part truths. Has anyone truly read the labels of their products? I mean with an INDEPENDANT mind? There are still several chemicals allowed in them that are very toxic and gross to say the least. (I have heard some consultants say that some chemicals rinse off and aren't left on the skin, but I'm talking about the chemicals that are in the skin care and makeup that we leave on all day.) I have tried ARbonne twice for 12 months total and although I do like the effects of RE9 Transforming Lift, the other products just don't "do it" for me. They tend to burn my eyes even when not near my eyes and they form more wrinkles than get rid of them. Also the makeup makes me break out every time. Most all products do not do this to me. I know that I am probably not the norm, but my MAIN point is that I am concerned for the consultant AND the consumer from a health and educational aspect.
My other beef is the cost. People say the cost is high because the product comes from Swizterland. I know to us Americans that sounds real "impressive". And I also know that Switerland's FDA has stricter regulations on products compared to our FDA. But what is not told is that there are equally pure if not MORE pure products sold in health food stores that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost of Arbonne. Yes you will find more expensive brands also, but they are usually worth it and have less chemicals than Arbonne. These products DO get the job done and NO you don't have to put them in the refrigerator to keep them fresh.. (an Arbonne consultant once asked me that). I have done extended research on the chemicals that Arbonne has in their RE9 skin care products and their makeup and I can tell you that even though they ARE botanically based, I disagree on the term PURE. I have chosen not to make this letter a book by listing everything, but I will encourage you all to investigate for yourselves because that is what we all need to be doing. You will see that there are other chemicals in these products and some of them are at the beginning of the ingredient list! The one that really bothers me is Diazolidinyl Urea, or Urea which is a byproduct of Urine. I don't care what a chemical lab does to urine to make it safe. I DON'T want it on my face!! Many well meaning people looking for opportunity are hearing ARbonne's claims. Many take it at face value and then repeat the information usually word for word making them sound like little robots. I understand why people might see Arbonne as a cult ( I don't really think that way) because the company (in my opinion) gets in the way of individual seeking and thinking. This is my concern. Arbonne has this air about them that they are the only pure company (this is what their consultants portray) and this is what gives them a creepy "cultish" feel.
All that to say GET EDUCATED!
August 31, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Diazolidinyl urea – A complex natural preservative, it helps control the growth of bacteria and other microorganisms.
September 1, 2005 at 1:29 pm
Diazolidinyl urea -Established as a primary cause of contact dermatitis (American Academy of Dermatology)
Contains formaldehyde, a carcinogenic chemical, is toxic by inhalation, a strong irritant, and causes contact dermatitis.
Urea or Carbamide:
(britannica.com) the chief nitrogenous end product of protein breakdown in mammals and some fish. It occurs not only in urine but also in blood, bile, milk and perspiration. It is one of the INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS produced in vast amounts.
September 1, 2005 at 2:21 pm
db – out of curiosity, what products do you use that don't have DU in them?
September 1, 2005 at 2:26 pm
"Why It�s Included
This ingredient is used as a preservative in a variety of Arbonne�s
products. Preservatives are essential in maintaining the integrity of
cosmetic formulations as they help inhibit the growth of yeast, mold
and bacteria. Arbonne follows all CIR (Cosmetic Ingredient Review
Board) recommended usage and concentration guidelines.
The Facts
Reports have suggested that Diazolidinyl Urea is a formaldehyde
releaser but there is no indication that the use of Diazolidinyl Urea
as used in cosmetic products would release formaldehyde at
concentrations that would exceed the limits recommended for
formaldehyde. On the basis of clinical data, the CIR expert panel
concluded that Diazolidinyl Urea is safe as a cosmetic ingredient up to
a maximum concentration of 0.5%. In fact, RIPT (Repeat Insult Patch
Tests) sensitization studies using cosmetic products at concentrations
up to 0.4% on normal subjects were essentially negative."
I read around, and it's controversial…meaning, the jury's out on it. It's not hard-and-fast, a horrible ingredient. I found several other "natural" lines who use it as well.
September 1, 2005 at 4:02 pm
Why do people keep trying to defend Arbonne?? "It might look like a pyramid but, oh, I promise with sugar and cream and cherries that it's not!" why can't people just tell it like it is and quit trying to confuse people??? Pyramids are legal, in case anyone has forgotten, so why can't you just say yes, "Arbonne has a great product to run a pyramid scheme with" ??? Anyone? sigh…
September 1, 2005 at 4:25 pm
anoyed, has it ever occured to you that most businesses replicate a pyramid. Corporate america for ex. ceo, presedent, vice presedent, middle management ect…Arbonne is one of the few companies where you can join in after somone, and surpass them many levels based on the work that you put forth. Not to mention there are no poletics in this business. It is quite simple, you work hard you make more money, you don't work hard no money. You can think what you want because those kinds of comments are made by people who don't have what it takes to do this business anyway. Instead of judging the people who work with Arbonne maybe you should do a little research and get your facts straight.
September 1, 2005 at 4:30 pm
I use some Earth Science products that do not have DU in them along w/ some other chemicals. I was only using DU as an example. That ingredient does bother me, but the issue is that there are other chemicals also that I don't care for. Earth science has some chemicals in their products, but honestly not as many as Arbonne, and Earth Science products work for me.
That is the brand I like. There of course are others. Paul Penders and Racheal Perry are makeup lines that are working on purity also. I understand that certain chemicals are approved, but I also know that other chemicals AND drugs in the past were thought okay until more knowledge was found w/ time. I also know that there are political issues involved w/ chemical testing and reports. Toxic and unsafe aren't always the final deciding factors on whether to ban or "okay" a chemical. Political issues are involved also. When a chemical is widely used it takes a lot of money to replace it w/ something safer and the government is not always willing to do that. There is so much information that never gets to us. That is why we must use wisdom and do what feels right to each one of us.
September 1, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Christy, i'm not judging anyone per se. but you are exactly right, Arbonne is just like any other company. The fact is, you put more work into anything, you get more out of it. that's a life lesson though, NOT an arbonne lesson. im just sick and tired of everyone acting like arbonne dropped out of the heavens to save everyone's apparently-wretched lives. i wish that the arbonnites would quit trying to shove their so-called "hard work" down everyone's throat because their "hard work" is usually pushing someone to sign up so they can have more people under them. dont try to deny it… its just the truth. im not slamming anyone for their success. Go team go. but im sick of the presentation of arbonne being portrayed as the second coming or something.
September 1, 2005 at 4:52 pm
and one more thing: in light of all the world tragedies that have been going on, how about people in america stop spending their money on a $50 dollar face wash and start pushing everything towards a humanitarian cause? its skin care people – not God. (wow, i sound bitter don't i? i guess i am sorta)…
September 1, 2005 at 4:56 pm
db – My point was that perhaps DU is an ingredient that has no "purer" alternative. I am interested to know the other chemicals that you speak of.
Annoyed – We defend Arbonne b/c it is worthy of defense. It is NOT a pyramid, for as I believe you meant to say, they are ILlegal, and therefore we could not exist if we were a pyramid.
Apparently people have a misconception of the pyramid definition. A "pyramid scheme" is one in which people pay a large cost – say $500 or $1,000 – which does not give them any products in return…it's just a "licensing fee" or "joiners fee" or something like that to become part of the company. These eventually fall apart b/c there's no one else to sell to after the start fees are used up.
Arbonne, however – much like Mary Kay, Avon, The Body Shop at Home and the like – has a product that is consumable and therefore needs to be reordered on a regular basis, keeping the consultants in business. I've never heard of anyone referring to Mary Kay as a pyramid, so it shocks me when someone says Arbonne is.
Besides, if you were employed somewhere and absolutely LOVED your job, wouldn't you defend it if people were wrongly accusing your company of being unethical?
September 1, 2005 at 5:13 pm
maybe…probably. however, no mary kay lady has ever tripped over her shoelaces running with a leash in her hand trying to get me on board so she could make money. all of that is completely SECOND to their love of the product. ive been approached for arbonne twice and you should have seen the fire in these ladies eyes… holy COW! you would have run too….
September 1, 2005 at 5:26 pm
I appecciate your professional and calm replies to these controversial matters.
I would encourage you to look at the list of ingredients on your Arbonne product and do some research for yourself. My point remains that people need to get facts even if it requires a lot of digging. You can't trust everyone and what they say. I don't even expect you to trust me. Just get your own facts. I will conclude this by saying if bat poop or a derivative of it is not okay to put in cosmetics, then a derivative from urine isn't either in my book. I do not believe that this amazing scientific world with the help of God's wisdom can not come up w/ a purer alternative. whatever that's worth.
September 1, 2005 at 5:58 pm
I have found information on many different websites suggesting that Diazolidinyl Urea CAN come from Urine OR it CAN be a synthetic Chemical. Arbonne also uses synthetic bees wax…does that mean it MUST come from Bees? Curious…
September 1, 2005 at 7:29 pm
What's with all the ingredients checking? We all consume all kinds of stuff that would make us vomit if we really knew about it. Does Arbonne put chemicals in its products? Yes, they don't lie about that. Whether the Urea is synthesized or not, guess what else has urine, and human feces, all over it that you probably touch before touching your face, or even your mouth? Money! And we all handle that several times a day.
No one researches each ingredient of each product s/he uses on a daily basis. If you have particular needs, do your research. If you find a product that works for you, then use it.(stepping off soapbox)
Rachel, I know you spoke about not making more of an investment than you can afford. I've paid my $29 and bought my $96 now you're in business pack. Apparently I need to spend about $400 more just to have product to show. I'm already planning parties for after my sponsor stops helping me at the end of September. We're using her show stuff until then. It sounds like I need to get these things to do parties. I'm not even worried about the drop-off kits right now.
Do you, or anyone else here, have any advice about this? I'm waiting to hear if I'm approved for the Arbonne MBNA card, but my credit is not exactly spotless. I really really want to make my business work, but the affordability is a little scary right now. Has anyone else with less than perfect credit been approved for the card? Someone please help me!
September 1, 2005 at 10:23 pm
db – Thank you. The reason I was asking for the names of the chemicals that you are concerned about is b/c I want to pay special attention to them, to check the facts. It's like you said…even you don't expect me to trust you! Please don't take that personally…I just don't know you personally, and I don't know where you got your information, or even if you're a consultant for another company undercover or something!! 😉 I did a LOT of checking when I started…so much so, that it took me months to get started. So, I'm concerned I missed something along the way.
Annoyed – it all depends who you come in contact with. I was HOUNDED by 2 Mary Kay reps for a LONG time to sign up and sell. One of them…even after I've been with Arbonne for TWO YEARS mind you…STILL has to go on and on about how WONDERFUL her business is going and about how I would do MUCH better in MK, etc. etc. Please don't hold some ind. reps actions against Arbonne. You always have a few rotten apples in the bunch. (I think I may have mixed a metaphor, there).
And I missed your comment earlier about spending money on face wash. I understand your point. However, where do you draw the line? What seems like luxury for one person is pocket change to another. When is too much TOO MUCH to pay for face wash? Some people would say $10 is too much. So, if you spend $15, are you a horrible person? What is too expensive of a house? $250,000? $500,000? $125,000? That line is just way too subjective. I would bet that about 90% of us would agree that $600 is too much for an anti-aging serum (which is what one of my clients was formerly paying for her previous skin care)…but that's an extreme example. Personally, I'm willing to pay more for quality (plus, our prices are lower-middle range).
Also, I don't know if this will make you feel better or not, but my husband and I have every intention of giving away a HUGE percentage of our income if we ever end up in that top bracket of earners. Like, 50% (at least). And several of our VPs give away GOBS of money to worthy causes.
Leah – As far as getting started, I just didn't buy stuff until I had parties, since my sponsor helped with the first few. I used my commission from those first parties to buy my products. It was great, b/c it boosted my volume at the same time, and didn't require me to put money out of pocket. I teach my consultants to do the same, b/c I never want to encourage anyone to go into debt, even if I believe they'd be able to earn it back in a few months. Even now, I make it a rule not to spend more than the 35% right now profit on supplies and such (unless it's for my own personal use!). As for the MBNA card…well, they'd laugh me off the phone if I tried to apply, so can't help you there!
September 2, 2005 at 7:03 am
Thank you for your help. So you're suggesting, which is what I was already thinking is a good idea, that I should wait until I see my sales from my launch, and use those profits for buying my first Essentials set? Will shipping be straightened out enough by then that I will have the products before October?
Now I just have to push the crap out of my launch, and get these gals to spend spend spend. 🙂 Just kidding, I'm not going to hound anyone. I will just tell my sponsor that this is what I can afford to do, and we will just have to work with it. She's been very supportive; I think she's just worried about me being prepared.
September 2, 2005 at 4:44 pm
Don't worry, I'm not an undercover consultant for another company. Please read my original comments and note my point.
Here is a list of SOME of the ingredients that are NOT talked about or told to the person who is getting ready to sign up as a distributer. (I have 4 different friends selling Arbonne who all think that ARbonne is pure because Arbonne said they are).
I'm glad that you did research before joining Arbonne. You are not the norm.
Here are the ingredients that concern me.
I took them from the RE9 products.
Urea (0f course): )
TEA (you can find info on both of these in "Politics of Cancer Revisited", by Samuel S. Epstein, M.D. Pages 478&79, 578-581, 646-649(urea)
Trisodium EDTA
Cocamidopropyl Betaine
Porpylene glycol
Sodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate
Butylene Glycol
Phosphatidyl Choline
Certain chemicals bother me more, but it is the amount of chemicals in Arbonne products that really bothers me for the price of the product and the claims that are made by Arbonne.
Here are some websites to check out if you want w/ some information and products that have less to no chemicals. Not trying to sell you on any one product just trying to defend my point.
I am using earth science at this time, but am also checking into other cosmetic companys.
September 2, 2005 at 11:45 pm
Thanks for the list. I recognize a lot of these as being things I checked out, but I will check again. I'm just that kind of person…I have to investigate EVERYTHING! 🙂 I actually read some of Sam Epstein's info when I was researching and actually emailed him!
For what it's worth, I checked with Arbonne and the UREA we use is synthetic, not from urine.
Leah – good plan! I think the shipping thing will be figured out. One of my consultants ordered products two weeks ago and got them in the normal time frame.
September 3, 2005 at 9:43 am
Hi, thought I would pop in on the "pure" debate. What Arbonne has done with this is redefine "pure" as meaning the best and highest quality. When you listen to the product knowledge cd – Candace (the product gal) defines it that way. A great marketing stroke, but still a little deceiving. Re-defining a word for your own use. So, when Arbonne states "pure, safe and beneficial" what they mean is "the best products available, safe to use and beneficial" – thus they can still stay in the "natural" camp but also have a loop-hole to get out.
Another note – if you really study Arbonne's info/literature, they do stress that they have preservatives, etc. and they are NOT all organic. However, in the zeal and mouth-to-mouth training (remember the childhood game telephone), people have taken Arbonne to mean all natural and organic.
When I did classes (note above post – getting out), I would tell people we are not completely "organic" however, we do get results, which some completely organic products don't! Frankly, most of America doesn't care about the organic vs. non-organic – they just want their wrinkles gone!!
Hope this helps.
Hugs, Tina
September 3, 2005 at 12:17 pm
It is nice to know someone else who does so much researching! : )
I'm sure that I'm frustrating people who have been following our conversation, but I have to say that synthetic ingredients bother me also. I guess I'm pretty stinkin' picky! I'm just one of those "weird-o's" that refuse to follow the crowd. Can we just agree to disagree? : ) thank you for all of your comments.
You are a great mediator! thank you also for your comments.
September 8, 2005 at 12:10 am
It's 1:12 am…I have not finished reading all the posts because my eyes are blurring, but after only trying a sample packet of the Bio-Hydria eye cream and Naturesomes I think I am going to take the plunge! My skin felt like silk!
I've used MD, Murad and other expensive lines, as well as the drug store brands and I am impressed. I think that could translate into a lucrative business venture!
Be Well,
September 8, 2005 at 11:58 am
I've been reading these posts for the last two hours. I'm totally confused right now.
I became an Arbonne Consultant at the end of July. However, I didn't really start marketing till the end of August via business cards and letters. I still haven't received my Open for Business" package…, it is still back ordered. I'm having my business launch in two weeks…. and am hoping for a large turnout.
Not quite sure about this whoe thing…., never have been into MLM and this is all new to me…, however, I'm having some fun doing it if for nothing else than to see how far I can go with it.
I also love their products, so, if it fails, I lose nothing but gained things that I will use every day.
My question is…. Is it legal to market these products through another consultant in a beauty salon, spa, chiropractors office, etc…
Can anyone answer that question for me?
thank you..
September 8, 2005 at 12:01 pm
I was lead to believe that Arbonne was a Christian based organization. It is not. Is Arbonne not an MLM? MLM, pyramid schemes, network marketing and referral marketing are the same. There are a few great books that explain, "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick, and on MLM Survivor.com recommends a great on called "Consumed by succes" by Athena Dean.
September 8, 2005 at 5:21 pm
You may sell through such places as salons, doctors' offices and spas as long as they are "by appointment" businesses. You may not have stacks of inventory on the shelves, but can use that as a method to schedule individual appointments.
I hope this helps.
September 8, 2005 at 10:52 pm
Jerry & Rachele Nichols (Nichols & Company)- Please add me to your e-mail list. [email protected] Thank you. Tammie Knight support line of Beta Wright -Tahlequah, OK.
September 9, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Is there anyone doing the results approach and classes at the same time? I just wondered. I do the results approach and have found success, I'm a district manager and half-way to area. I'm just having a hard time getting my asap points and I wondered if anyone still does classes with the results approach. I'd appreciate POSITIVE input.
September 9, 2005 at 9:54 pm
This blog has been so interesting. I first found Arbonne 2 years ago & I am so glad I did. It is not only a company w/ the best products but one w/ the best people. There are pros & cons to everything, but it is YOUR attitude that will determine which one dominates your thoughts & actions. Doing the presentations wasn't my thing, as I had trouble finding the time. I was a full time psychotherapist & mother to twins, so I took a break as a consultant & just used the products. My friend, who introduced me to the business, approached me several mths ago(with her brand new Mercedes) & told me about the REsults Approach (or Puppy Dog Approach). Thank goodness for this because I am now DISTRICT MANAGER. I accomplished this in about 2 mths. This approach is wonderful. For those of you thinking of doing this, please join this wonderful company. You won't be sorry. Just make sure you have a successful, good sponsor/upline who has a successful sponsor, etc. I got very lucky in that my friend & sponsor is Bonnie Greenberg who was sponsored by Judy Pressman who was sponsored by Dana Collins. There will be a new book out called "The Gift" that right now is only available to Arbonne consultants. It will be available to the public 11/05. READ IT!!!!
I live in a suburb of Baltimore, so if you are close, please contact me & join our wonderful team/nation. Even if you are not close to Baltimore, I'm willing to travel to get you started. Email me at: [email protected] I do have a website, but it is used more for contacts, my clients, etc. Unlike what Joel had described. http://bmkatz.myarbonne.com Thanks to Dave for the wonderful comments. I hope to meet you at an NTC.
September 9, 2005 at 10:05 pm
oops…my email address is [email protected]. the bmkatz is for my myarbonne website. looking forward to hearing from you….
September 10, 2005 at 11:02 am
Get real is real and Dave and most of the others are dreamers. I am not into MLM ,pyramid schemes BUT getreal is right, in all these schemes the house of cards will always collapse. You want a real business, you have to invest time and big money. I am in the prepaid telecom business and making more than 100k a month, but i work 16 hours ,6 days a week, I am not playing Golf like Dave is, and I started my business with a 6 figure number. I am not trying to sell anybody anything, but an advise to all, wake up, dont make others rich,do something real. Last , this Mercedes deal, is what get most suckers in.
September 10, 2005 at 11:07 am
I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told…
Posted by: A reader at August 29, 2005 11:11 PM
I was lead to believe that Arbonne was a Christian based organization. It is not. Is Arbonne not an MLM? MLM, pyramid schemes, network marketing and referral marketing are the same. There are a few great books that explain, "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick, and on MLM Survivor.com recommends a great on called "Consumed by succes" by Athena Dean.
Posted by: Terri at September 8, 2005 12:01 PM
I certainly hope NOT! I will not join it if it is. Can anyone out there verify if it is?
September 10, 2005 at 1:24 pm
It is NOT a Christian based company people! There just seems to be many women who go to church that are involved, just like many other MLM companies.
September 10, 2005 at 1:38 pm
Hi all. I wasn�t planning to participate in the latest discussions because some others have very competently responded. But I feel I should respond to �pilot� because he includes me specifically in his remarks.
First of all, I find no shame in being called a �dreamer�. I�m glad I�m a dreamer, if I am, because it�s dreams that motivate one to be more than they might be. Most people don�t dream, and therefore, don�t go after the things that will make them feel fulfilled and content. I actually wish I dared to dream bigger! I might accomplish even more. I�m sure pilot that you started your business because of a �dream� or desire or motivation to do and be and have more than you were otherwise able to. One of my dreams was to NOT have to work 16 hours a day anymore. We did that for 14 years and I can tell you it comes without any permanent reward. The time I have now I use to spend with my daughter and my wife and it is much more rewarding and a dream come true. I play golf when I can, which is certainly not always, but more than it used to be. The exercise, enjoyment of friends and satisfaction of learning to play better indeed has a lifelong reward. As it�s been said many times that NO one on their death bed wishes they spent more time at the office. Do you have children pilot? I can tell you they are not impressed by your 16 hour day, especially when it causes you to miss soccer games, dance recitals or other such activities. Just being able to pick up my daughter at the bus stop at the end of the school day is reward enough for doing this business.
Additionally, to assume that because you invested heavily in the establishment of your business that you are now immune to any threats to the viability of your business displays a naivet� that is frankly astounding. Huge investments and traditional business models do not protect you from changes in technology or powerful competition that can render your business obsolete almost overnight. Think of the hundreds of small businesses displaced by mega-store competition or new technology. The examples are endless and there are probably many in your neighborhood. Do you have a Staples, a Walmart, a Sports Authority, a Borders in your area? Then you certainly have displaced small traditional businesses over the last 2 decades.
Is Arbonne a guarantee? Of course not and nobody has said that. It�s not about guarantees. It�s about the potential. Arbonne offers POTENTIALLY a significant return on your investment. POTENTIALLY better than any other opportunity you may find for the amount needed to start. Can it or will it collapse? I doubt it, but it might. Who knows? There�s no evidence to suggest that it will anytime soon. Because Get Real or Pilot say it will is not evidence. Who would have thought five years ago that Arthur Andersen, one of the worlds largest, most influential and most profitable accounting firms in the world would disappear, virtually overnight? No one knows for sure what the future holds for any enterprise, even yours Pilot. I have confidence in the management, the products and the business model so I have no fears that would prevent me from enjoying the success Arbonne has helped us achieve so far and the dreams that have come true and are coming true. Not only for us, but countless others as well!
And just a quick comment to Marnie: The question of Arbonne being a �Christian company� has been answered here several times. In fact Joel, just a few posts back, offered an excellent suggestion as to why this misconception may be out there. Read back a while Marnie and you�ll find your answer.
September 10, 2005 at 3:55 pm
I can't imagine working 16 hours a day no matter what my income is. 100K/mth is wonderful, but not if it jeopardizes my time w/ my kids. My children are the most important things in the world to me & I would never jeopardize that by working 16 hours a day. It's bad enough that I'm still working a 40 hour work week, but that is why Arbonne has been my main focus. I've been using their products for 2 yrs but only doing the business for 3 mths. My goal is to get to the level where my friends/consultants/team members are where they are bring in over 20K/mth & only working 15 hrs/wk. And they are only at the RVP level!!! Imagine making 19% per month off your nation's volume of over 20 million. Do the numbers! My goal is to get to that level. There are consultants who have done it in 6 mths & consultants who have done it in a few years. You get what you put into it. If you can't put as much time into it as some of the other people, THAT IS FINE! You'll still get there & you'll be using the greatest products at an affordable price in the meantime. Since I still have a full-time job plus being a single mother to twins, I can't do this as much as I want. As I previously said, thank goodness for this REsults approach. If our sales were based on these parties & presentations like they had been when I first got started 2 yrs ago, I couldn't do it. This is doable now, much more simple.
As I mentioned before, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GREAT SPONSOR!! Mine, Bonnie, has been what is called a "dream coach". Those familiar w/ Marcia Wieder(www.dreamcoach.com) know what I'm talking about. Bonnie works w/ me at MY pace, is encouraging, supportive, willing to do whatever it takes to get me to the level I want to be. Very unselfish. That is what you need. For those of you who have poo-pooed Arbonne, I can guarantee you had a consultant or manager who did not possess those qualities. I am with a great team…a great nation.
As far as a Christian based company…NO WAY!!! I am Jewish, the majority of my team/nation are Jewish. Arbonne does not discriminate. Not once have I ever read anything that indicated otherwise.
September 11, 2005 at 8:37 pm
Some food for thought (this helped me walk away from Arbonne – and all MLMs):
I've been told there are over 300,000 total consultants signed up with the company last month (wholesalers, business builders, etc.).
Knowing this, let's crunch some numbers.
Effective July 2005 (Arbonne demographics map) there were:
151 – NVPs – less than 1% of total
588 – RVPs – less than 1% of total
2441 – AMs – 1% of total
13,093 – DMs – 4% of total
Okay, I'm pretty cocky, but to realistically think I will be one of the less than 1%?!?
Now let's look at the numbers a different way –
Percentage of NVP, RVP, etc. from the total managers only (total of all managers is 16,273).
151 – NVPs – 1% of total mgrs
588 – RVPs – 4% of total mgrs
2441 – AMs – 15% of total mgrs
13,093 – DMs – 80% of total mgrs
Okay – maybe a little bit better odds – but what does this mean financially?
Average compensation check for each level (numbers from Arbonne corp):
NVP – $29,050.27 – 1% of biz blders make this
RVP – $6,666.43 – 4% of biz blders make this
AM – $1,557.26 – 15% of biz blders make this
DM – $304.13 – 80% of biz blders make this
I bought into this because of my ego saying I could be one of the special 4% or less.
Just something for people to think about if they are considering the business.
Am I not capable of dreaming? Oh, I dream big! I have another business that I neglected because I worked on the Arbonne so much. Luckily, I didn't do permanent harm and things are starting to get going pretty great! 🙂 Why did I try Arbonne when I already had a business? Ego and greed are pretty powerful forces….
Hugs, Tina
September 12, 2005 at 12:14 am
is anyone offended by the $29 "joining for discount fee" that in reality ends up being $38? Why not just be up front and say the fee is $38? Then the gal giving the party has the audacity to ask what is the problem with the total of my order? And that "no one has ever questioned that before". so I'm the trouble maker at the party, asking questions, feeling totally used because someone at my gym has started calling I thought to be a friend, but no to sign up under her. I just with she would take no for an answer.
September 12, 2005 at 1:22 pm
Hi Tina.
I�m always hesitant to respond your kind of post because I�m never sure if you�re really looking for an answer to your comments or if you�re just �venting� and looking for support that what you say is valid. Even though I suspect the latter, I�ll respond just so the flip side of the coin gets some exposure, so to speak. I�ll try to keep it short, but answers to complicated questions often take bit of explaining.
A lot of times arguments like yours are really just a way to provide a logical reason to let yourself off the hook for a commitment you made or for a vision (dream) you�ve decided not to pursue any longer. If you decided not to do Arbonne that�s okay; don�t feel guilty about it or feel like you�re letting yourself or someone else down.
You are saying that because only 1% are NVPs and another 1% are RVPs that your chances of joining the 2% are slim. Is that correct? Let me look at it another way. Since an RVP or NVP usually has anywhere from 50 to 200 consultants, even more, signed up under them, either directly or through those on their team, it naturally makes sense that they would be represented by the 1% figure. The thing to keep in mind is that as the company grows and sales increase, the pie gets bigger, and the 1% number also grows. One percent of 2 million will be a lot of NVPs. You can join the 1% because there is more and more opportunity to place yourself at the top of YOUR 100 person organization.
Secondly, the 1% did not get there by luck. So for you to get there does also not require luck. They get there because of their productivity. If you develop the amount of business needed to achieve that level, you will join the 1%, or whatever percentage it is. Not everyone will make it. No dispute there. But the reasons are not because of chance or lack of opportunity.
Only 1% of Americans earn $100K a year or more. But would you say because of that low percentage it�s impossible, or unlikely YOU could earn that much? Of course not, because the reasons have to do with things like education, skills& abilities, work ethic, habits and the choice of activity (business or career or product) and not the environment (economic and/or social structure). You don�t earn that much as an elementary school teacher, so if that�s how much you want to earn you have to choose a different path. That may not be your goal, but with the right skill, effort and product you CAN earn that much or even more. Just don�t let yourself be defeated by statistics that have no bearing on YOU personally. Arbonne represents an opportunity and a pretty darn good one. But it�s not automatic. You have to earn the success.
I can�t speak to your ego and greed comments because I don�t know how you define those terms. However, self confidence is not egotistical and desire for financial freedom is not greed. You can be poor and be greedy and you can be unemployed and be egotistical. I really doubt that you were motivated by greed or ego, Tina, but if you were those traits didn�t go away when you stopped doing Arbonne.
September 12, 2005 at 9:11 pm
"but with the right skill, effort and product you CAN earn that much or even more."
I really pondered answering this for I do not want to get "into it" with you Dave, as you have with other posters. However, alas, I must be a glutten for punishment! 😉
Anyone POTENTIALLY can win the lottery, become President of the US, open their own business and make oddles and oddles of money, etc.
What my concern is that this "business opportunity" is presented to ALL people no matter their SKILL or told how much EFFORT is necessary. Also, even if people understand how much effort is necessary, many do not have the skills. The only positive I can say about network marketing is that it can teach people business skills, if they want to learn. HOWEVER, is the realistic picture painted of that this is a long road with only a 1-2% chance of success? Or is the picture painted just a tad too rosy to get recruits?
For example, I introduced the business opp to a wonderful lady who has NO business skills. Really, really wants to learn. I love working with her and mentoring her. Even though I've left Arbonne, I told her I would still be happy to be her "business coach/mentor" as I have been blessed to have in the my other career. My heartache for her is that she sees the "rocketing success" of others and is very frustrated. The skills she needs to learn takes TIME and hardwork – harder than she (and I suspect) most realize.
I feel – and this is my feeling – that many are sold on the POTENTIAL and not shown the full picture, thus there are many who go into this business who shouldn't.
Thank you for listening.
Hugs, Tina
September 13, 2005 at 12:24 am
I understand what you�re saying Tina, so I�m not trying to �get into� anything with you and certainly not trying to punish you. I�m just offering a friendly rebuttal to your very reasonable comments. I read your previous post to mean that because only 1 to 4% of consultants make it into the VP status that you felt your odds of achieving that level were slim. I pointed out that of course only 1% would be NVP because it takes a team of 100 or more to reach the sales to qualify for NVP. That shouldn�t prevent or even discourage you from building that team of 100 or more. Most people have still never heard of Arbonne. There�s a lot of business yet to be developed.
With regard to what you just said, I agree that painting a rosy picture, saying anyone can do it and that you need no skills to succeed is not an accurate or fair portrayal of what it takes. It does take a great deal of personal improvement and development to become the leader necessary to grow your team to the size needed to propel you to NVP, and Arbonne is a company committed to such development. But, it is, or can be, a process. You don�t have to start being perfect. Just like my 3rd grade daughter is now working on basic arithmetic in order to later handle algebra and other advanced mathematics, a starting consultant works on simpler concepts of personal growth initially and slowly works their way toward learning the skills needed to face the more difficult challenges of business and leadership sure to come. Some may start out with the skills necessary and do well quickly so they enjoy a head start. Many more need to learn them as they go, but I�d never tell anyone they�re not capable of learning them. I do believe anyone who is determined and has a �whatever it takes� attitude and is coachable can succeed.
I say this because there are several people I�ve met who initially I thought there�s no way, she�s wasting her time, and yet with remarkable determination and commitment they eventually reached their goal. Likewise, there are those who I thought were the �can�t miss� kind who then did nothing and got nowhere. Therefore, I agree that not all should go into this business, but probably for different reasons than you believe. Your friend needs to be assured that Arbonne is not a race. For some the work will indeed be harder. Most people do not engage in efforts of personal development and growth because it is so hard. Those who do will certainly see the value in it whether they ultimately succeed with Arbonne or not. And by the way, success for some may not be NVP. They may not want that role. Success for many may just be an extra $1000 a month.
September 13, 2005 at 8:02 am
Dave, you make me smile. 🙂 Your passion and belief in this business is wonderful to watch. If all people were just that passionate about one thing in their life, the world would be a much happier place.
Hopefully this forum has given people food for thought and a better awareness of Arbonne. In addition, made people think about what it takes to have their own business.
I think at this point I will "agree to disagree" with you. 🙂
Hugs, Tina
September 13, 2005 at 10:12 am
I really don't think we disagree that much, Tina. I just think you look at some of the issues you bring up as obstructions and I look at them as obstacles. And that's okay. I'm sure there are subjects where our perspectives would be reversed. I certainly appreciate your comments because they reflect what many people feel, and you expressed them without including any personal attacks. If you ever change your mind about doing Arbonne I know you�d do great!
September 14, 2005 at 12:20 pm
Have any of you read Dr. Helmstetter's book, "The Gift" yet? Mine arrived Monday and I started it last night. Just curious….
September 14, 2005 at 2:40 pm
Amway-Arbonne all the same. All the money no personal life or identity.
September 14, 2005 at 6:03 pm
Hello i am looking at entering into the business and i was wondering how long it takes to move up? I know that with anything it is more than likely based on how hard you work. I just want to know because i have a small child who cant wait 6 mos or so to start really generating income. I am currently enrolled in college and wroking a home based business at night and spend time with my family in the mid afternoons. Based on my situation wahat is reasonable so that i may quit my home based business to do this full time.
September 14, 2005 at 6:05 pm
by the excuse my typing one hand to work with!!
September 14, 2005 at 7:56 pm
Hi Eric,
If you want to be successful with Arbonne you will, but it is not a "get rich quick" thing. It takes hard work. I will tell you though that the only way you will not succeed is if you quit. Some people make the big money in 6 months and some make it in 3 years, but they all have 1 thing in common and that is that they never gave up. In my start month I went through a lot of ups and downs wondering if I made the right decision. I kept on thinking what if I don't make it. The thing is what if I do make it. I'm seeing a lot of people of all types finding great success with Arbonne. Now I'm at the point where I know I am going to succeed. It might take me a little while to make the big money, but in the mean time I'm having fun and making enough money to cover some bills. If you put a lot of pressure on yourself to make it rich right away your chances of success aren't going to be as good as if you enjoy the opportunity that you have and foccuss on helping others to have the same opportunity.
September 14, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Hi Eric,
If you want to be successful with Arbonne you will, but it is not a "get rich quick" thing. It takes hard work. I will tell you though that the only way you will not succeed is if you quit. Some people make the big money in 6 months and some make it in 3 years, but they all have 1 thing in common and that is that they never gave up. In my start month I went through a lot of ups and downs wondering if I made the right decision. I kept on thinking what if I don't make it. The thing is what if I do make it. I'm seeing a lot of people of all types finding great success with Arbonne. Now I'm at the point where I know I am going to succeed. It might take me a little while to make the big money, but in the mean time I'm having fun and making enough money to cover some bills. If you put a lot of pressure on yourself to make it rich right away your chances of success aren't going to be as good as if you enjoy the opportunity that you have and foccuss on helping others to have the same opportunity.
September 14, 2005 at 9:11 pm
Tina-I'm an accountant. You can crunch numbers or post percentages all day, but you're failing to remember YOU control your percentage and growth. Unlike the lottery, YOU have control to change the odds. It's not about "Maybe I'll make it to whatever level", it's about, �are you willing to do what it takes to reach that level.� I love easy, but nothing is easy, it takes work and effort. In most DM�s, your success is up to you. Like any job, are you willing to do what it takes to be promoted? It's that simple. I went to District in 2 months. I have a fantastic team and we do what it takes to do better, do more, and remain motivated. I have always been a hard worker; this is one where I can actually control how the hard work pays off. I don't think Direct Marketing companies are for everyone, it depends on your motivation and ability to be on the look for opportunities. For every excuse, there's an opportunity. And believe me; it took me a while to see that, I was very anti-DM�s but what changed was realizing that I work my a** off and love change. I never knew how perfect a DM company would be for me. I�ve always been one to go into a position yearning to get familiar with it, and then improve and simplify it. I love finding new ways or better, simpler ways to accomplish goals, Arbonne is perfect for someone like me. Actually, any DM would be perfect for me, it�s just I liked Arbonne the best.
best wishes!
September 14, 2005 at 9:15 pm
To answer Kim's question…the book is great!! I finished it in 2 days & I'm going to re-read it after this other book I'm reading. Reading that book definitely confirmed my decision, again, that Arbonne is the right way to go.
September 15, 2005 at 10:27 am
Thanks for the comments,Beth.I am about 1/2 way through it. So far, I think it is great and I agree, it reenforces why I am doing this. Best of luck to you too.
September 16, 2005 at 3:20 pm
Hi All-
I have been invited to work for Arbonne by a friend of mine and am glad to have run into this site. I'm only 20 years old, am in college 2 days a week, work part time at a bank and am not happy. My job works well for my schedule but I don't make any money at all and don't particularly enjoy it… It's been impossible for me to save money for the past year and I really would love to move out of home and away from my parents sometime soon. I don't really have too many close friends but my parents are VERY well rooted into the community here and know EVERYONE. I love talking to people and meeting new people so the "Arbonne Party" seems as though it would work well for me, the only thing I'm concerned about is finding other people I can convince to work with/under me. Any help I could get would be wonderful. Thanks ALOT!!
September 17, 2005 at 6:19 am
Hi Corrie,
You sound like someone who is motivated to work hard so I�m positive you�ll have great success! To answer your concern, keep in mind that while it may be possible to �convince� someone to join you in the business, unless they convince themselves that it�s right for them they will not be as motivated as you are and may never really do anything and may even drop out.
You described the circumstances and desires that convinced you to do the business. It doesn�t sound like someone convinced you, but after considering how the business could solve your problems, you convinced yourself. Am I right? Your role then is to share with people the features, advantages and, most importantly, the benefits of the business. (Benefits are the things that the business can accomplish for them. Like in your case; doing something you enjoy, being able to save money and eventually move out to your own place.) The people you share it with will come to the same conclusion you came to if they have a need and understand how the business can resolve their need. (The benefit for them) THEN they�ll convince themselves! Just like you did.
September 18, 2005 at 8:07 am
I just signed on with Arbonne last week and I'm very happy about my decision. I'm a little confused since it says that I really don't have to sell anything if I don't want just get people to sign up under me. How would I make any money by just signing people up? What has been everyone's best approach to making this work? Is it giving out samples, business cards, literature etc?
September 19, 2005 at 2:35 pm
I have been with Arbonne for 6 weeks and have sold roughly 6000. worth of products by an amended Results approach. I give an Nutrimin C trial pack inside a gold package with all the full size still in the boxes. There is no hygine problem and they can see a full size container out of the box when I deliver the trial kit b/c I pull all of my kit out to show what is in those boxes. I encourage my new consultants to buy one more kit and 20 trial packages and the paper litature. No one has much invested and we are seeling like hotcakes!
Thanks for allowing me to share,
September 20, 2005 at 6:32 am
I am in the process of trying the Nutrimin C trial pack and I've seen some positive results. HOWEVER, the main reason I showed some interest in Arbonne was because the consultant told me that it was natural, botanical etc. and I currently use an organic skin care line. Unfortunately I just looked up a few of the ingredients and they contain exactly what she criticized other major products as having – glycerin (diesel), methyl, propyl, butyl parabens and other carcinogenic and questionable chemicals! I'm disappointed and feel like I've been lied to. I also feel like a fool as I started telling my friends and family about this new healthy innovative line – I even tried converting a Mary Kay consultant – based merely on the information that was provided by the consultant. I should have done my research earlier. I'm glad I haven't gone too far with this. You may want to Google some ingredients and see what comes up or visit http://www.ewg.org/reports/skindeep/category.php?ewg_cat=Anti-Aging%20Treatment to see which products are dangerous to us as consumers. You will be surprised. I imagine Arbonne is not listed yet because they have patents pending in the US and under current law, cosmetics are not required to go through vigorous testing.
September 20, 2005 at 9:05 am
Hi salsadva and welcome,
A discussion on ingredients, while ordinarily a worthy one, is far too involved for such a format as this. No one participating here, as far as I know, is themselves a researcher investigating cosmetic ingredients or qualified to attest to the authenticity of ingredient safety claims. Unfortunately information from the internet is not always the most trustworthy. You have no way of recognizing the true motives or agendas of the groups and organizations that put out the information, no way of verifying their science or the source of their claims and no possible way of determining their competence to make such claims. Most of these groups will tell you that talc is a cancer causing ingredient. The truth is refined cosmetic grade talc is not a cancer threat at all, even though natural, unrefined or poorly refined may be. Anyway, I�m not going to get into the debate on this because it�s too complicated and there�s no way to prove or disprove such claims. My advice for you salsadva is to visit Arbonne.com, go to the product knowledge section and review the ingredient list. If you want, visit the web site cir-safety.org or the fda.gov site for unbiased information on ingredients you question. If you have more questions or concerns email Product Knowledge at Arbonne and they will explain why they use the ingredient in question and can direct you to the studies that show it is safe at the concentrations they use. The bottom line for those who are concerned about ingredients is that Arbonne doesn�t use any ingredient that they don�t have a good reason for using and that hasn�t been determined through recognized industry and government review to be safe at the concentrations used in their formulations and in the way they are used.
I would add that your friend needs to be sure she has her story straight. Arbonne does not advertise as being "All Natural" and neither should she.
September 20, 2005 at 10:31 am
Okay�I had to do this. I don�t want to see well meaning people get confused or persuaded by misinformation. Just to support my point about the organizations that put out information about these so called �dangerous, cancer causing� ingredients, I decided to check out this �Environmental Working Group� (ewg.org) and you�ll find pretty much what I said. Check out this article:
Pay close attention to this line in particular �The Environmental Working Group (EWG) is the cauldron where some of the worst science and most creative smear campaigns are cooked up.�
The article is referring to organic foods at that point, but it seems reasonable to conclude that their �science� in other areas is just as dubious. I think you�ll agree after reading the article. So be careful what you read and be confident in Arbonne as there is no evidence to suggest that you can�t trust Arbonne�s wisdom in choosing ingredients.
September 20, 2005 at 11:21 am
Comments deleted for foul language
September 20, 2005 at 12:10 pm
I don't know who you are Michael, or why you felt the need to comment, but up until you arrived we've avoided profanity. It's not welcome and it invalidates everything you said, not to mention you're months late with it. Try to contribute something of worth and keep your mouth in check. It says a lot about you and none of it is good.
September 24, 2005 at 2:15 pm
I became a consultant a couple of weeks ago and am deciding whether actively sell. This site has been pretty helpful and I am leaning towards going for it. The thing that did it for me (not to mention I LOVE the product) was the talk about just sharing with people a product you really believe in and go from there. White car or no white car. I hope to find happiness through making other people happy. My problem is I just moved to Hawaii (yes it's awesome) and I don't have the support of my upline here. Meetings? Help on what to do? I don't want to feel like am out here on an island all alone. I don't think Arbonne has really hit here. I wouldn't mind inviting people over to my house so I can share products but I don't know how. I've never been to an Arbonne party. What do you think? Leah, I'll be looking for your updates and I will update from Hawaii. Mahalo
September 25, 2005 at 2:27 pm
this site has helped to definitely NOT join Arbonne!
thanks to Joel!!
September 26, 2005 at 7:59 am
Some one help me on this….Why does Arbonne make their customers pay sales tax on full reatail price but the customer is ordering with their wholesale id????? so product 266.oo with say nj sales tax 15.96 total 281.96 but they have a wholesale id so it's 172.90 plus 15.96 188.86
It should be 172.90 plus 10.37 total 183.27
Okay so who gets the Difference Arbonne???? $5.59
adds up quick now that is unethical.
Please attack me because I would like to understand. Is my upline just wrong?????
September 26, 2005 at 9:16 am
Hi Maria,
Be assured no one is going to attack you for asking a good question. This question comes up regularly with new consultants and is very easy to understand once it�s explained to you. If I would criticize you for anything it would be for charging Arbonne with being �unethical� before you know the reason.
Arbonne collects retail sales tax on your wholesale purchases because it is assumed that you will resell your inventory at retail prices. Therefore, the retail sales tax is collected in advance. By doing it this way Arbonne satisfies the tax collecting agencies in each state so that the consultant does not have to have a Sales Tax license and do the monthly or quarterly reporting and depositing of the sales tax funds collected that would be required as a licensee. Basically, it�s done this way to keep you out of trouble. Yes, you may pay more in sales tax than is actually owed, but it�s much more convenient. The �difference� goes to your state.
If that bothers you, Arbonne does allow you at the Area Manager level to register as a business account with a sales tax license and agree to pay your own sales tax. That way you can collect the tax on the actual amount you charge for the product. But realize, you then have to keep very strict records of your sales and remember to file on time. Most states have very harsh penalties for late payment of sales taxes, including jail time for those who try to avoid paying altogether. I think you�d agree Arbonne�s way of doing it is quite sensible.
September 26, 2005 at 2:20 pm
First off HARD DOLLARS. What do you people make.. HONESTLY.. Who REALLY has a MERCEDES??
Secondly, Someone said it was not a cult then typed this in the same reply.. Not a Cult??
"I'm in it to better myself as a person and maybe to help some others along the way.Arbonne isn't a cult or a get rich quick. It's just a chance for some personal growth disguised as a lip-stick company. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you need some "personal growth" of your own!"
September 26, 2005 at 3:09 pm
There are over 500 people with an Arbonne paid Mercedes. And, to give you an idea, our quarterly Federal tax deposit due next month is more than twice what I earned in a whole year when I first started working full time. Ouch!
September 26, 2005 at 3:13 pm
Dave, I had some questions for you regarding Arbonne, and sent you an email at your one listed on here.
September 26, 2005 at 6:37 pm
It's true.. I see Arbonne Mercedes around town all the time. I think I live in "Arbonne Central"
September 26, 2005 at 7:06 pm
Hey guys, I launched earlier this month, and I am trying to get everything together for my October classes. I need 8 to 10, and I have two confirmed. I will tell you, it is not the easiest thing you will ever do.
Arbonne is now my priority because I have a goal and a need to make district manager as quickly as possible. Arbonne, however, is not the priority of the people I know. They don't know what it is, they don't see why they should bother to help me, and they don't know yet why it is so important to me. Right now, I am dealing with people not answering their phone, because they have said they will help, but have not picked a date yet, and they don't feel like talking to me yet. People are busy, and if they haven't heard of it yet, they just don't see what all the hype is about.
I also know that if this is going to make me give up, I will not get anywhere, and all the people who are rolling their eyes right now will be right. I can't let that happen. The beginning is the hardest part. If you can get to District Manager, you've just done all of your hardest work. After that, you are just repeating everything you've already done to continue moving ahead.
I have setbacks going on in my life right now that make the possibility of a successful Arbonne business a real motivational factor. My stress level is not helping my confidence right now, but that's why I talk to my upline. I'm staying positive, being creative, and trying to have some kind of productivity every day. So be honest with yourself when you make this decision. If you don't have the motivation or the confidence to commit, then rethink your decision until you do.
Just my little piece, take it or leave it. Thanks!
September 26, 2005 at 8:14 pm
Hang in there Leah. The hardest part of this business is the first few months. But work through these challenges because you will then be so much better prepared to support and encourage your team as they go through the same startup issues! That's how leadership begins.
September 27, 2005 at 5:44 pm
I came to this page to read about others' opinions about Arbonne, their products, their company and the people who are involved with them. I have never been involved with an MLM company but was considering this one. I've learned a lot reading this page and appreciate most of the posters' comments.
I need to take a moment, however, to comment to Dave Smith.
Sir, with the respect that I would give to any other being, including the psychiatric patients that I worked with for 10 years, I believe you may have some sort of mental imbalance and issues with anger and self-esteem.
Your comments toward others who question the ethics of a company that sells cosmetics are so extreme and filled with personalized rage that I was actually put off by the idea of becoming involved with Arbonne for fear of having to deal with others such as yourself. Your statements resonate with the kind of paranoia and cult-like, "you're with us or against us" thought process that remind me of so much of what's coming out of the mouths of some of our leaders today.
If you would, please consider your comments before adding them to a streaming discussion and ask yourself, "is this person questioning MY integrity?" If Arbonne is an upstanding business, then it should be consistent and solid in its explanation of its practices, ethics, history and willing to be clear in responding to all inquiries….and unless you're some sort of corporate executive with Arbonne, I'm unclear as to why you feel the need to defend them. This is a time in the world where people have many means of questioning corporations and should. Corporate deception is rampant and investors ought to have the right to know what they're getting into beforehand. Additionally, the way that you choose to defend Arbonne, would certainly alarm me if I were the owner of the company. Your hostile and condescending choice of words and phrases are disturbing and border on verbally threatening. This is not the way any business should need to be defended or defend itself, particularly one that prides itself on making money via face to face, personal contact. If you are a company appointed spokesperson, please identify yourself as such.
If we do not question, then we do not know. Questioning should never be perceived as a threat, only as a quest for knowledge and wisdom. When we stop questioning and choose to accept anything on faith alone, personal growth stops. That's dangerous.
Please do not feel the need to respond to my post. I simply wanted to share my thoughts along with others who have done the same.
September 27, 2005 at 6:04 pm
I am thinking about getting into this but it seems like a real pain in the butt…and I am the first person who thinks that these people "friends and acquaintances" bothering me to buy something are jerks. I don't want to be a jerk like them!
September 27, 2005 at 9:57 pm
Nobody named �Dave Smith� wrote enough here to warrant such a condemnation, so I�ll assume, Amyla, that you�re talking about me, since my name is Dave. But honestly, I don�t know WHO you�re really talking about because you so over state your case and make claims that aren�t true that it�s clear you have not read all of the posts here. And getting the name wrong is all the proof one needs to make that assumption.
In the examples of where you can find me being harsh on a few individuals they were indeed attacking my integrity or someone else�s, they were not asking questions but making statements that were false or demeaning towards others, and were purposely intending to be misleading and antagonistic.
I never look at questions as a threat, as you suggest, and have answered many excellent questions to the satisfaction of many who have written to tell me so. I have never said this is for everybody nor indicated I�m against those who decide not to do it. I have said several times I am not a corporate employee. Must I say it again? And I dare you to provide an example of where I am �threatening�. Your �threatening� claim is just silly.
And anyway…I said I wasn�t going to respond to posts about me�so I won�t.
September 28, 2005 at 11:21 am
I've read all the posts and feel as if I am traveling with my kids on a long trip in the car. "He's touching me", "She's looking at me". I think you all need to grow up and remember the old saying, "sticks and stones". Geeze its a stupid makeup company that allows moms to make an extra 200 bucks every couple of months. It's not a life changing ideal. It's the old fashioned run of the mill MLM, deal with it. Sure a handful of people make some change but most don't and won't. It is unfortunate you are not allowed to have your own website that any person can build theirself in an hour. Sure the people with the "grandfathered" webite have a distinct advantage butr so does the kid that inherits daddy's business or money. Sure they feed you the lines and want you to recruit people to make more, who wouldn't want you to sell their products to make them more money. Sure the market will be saturated soon and you'll lose you 29 dollar investment. Sure it's just like the rest, "come to my house I have a great deal for you". If you don't make it you just did not give it enough time and quit, but please don't quit because then your upline person can't make money off you and so on up-the-line. My sister inlaws have been putting lots of time and effort into this business and each time I see them it's Mercedes this and Mercedes that. Just ask either how much they make and its always the same standard Amway answer,"well if I worked harder I'd make more", press them and find out it's about enough to buy 2 tanks of gas for their virtual Mercedes a month. It's all about control, top controls the bottom to excite them into working harder. Dave is the perfect example of this control factor. "Look at me I have a Mercedes and can go on trips", "work harder at it people so I can get another Merceds and go on more trips". I certainly did enjoy reading Dave's responses, very entertaining, go Stephen Covey go.
So if you want to make a coupla of bucks or get discounted makeup then plop down your money and join the Lemming Parade. Oh and I just read in TV guide where I can make 5000 a month stuffing envelops or assembling widgets at home.
Come on people wake up and smell the MLM.
September 28, 2005 at 1:51 pm
Who has read anything by Shad Helmstetter? He is a best-selling author and behavioral researcher. He brings together the 'best of the best' tools ever discovered for personal and professional growth from all of his previous books in his new book. It just came out for Arbonne Consultants, but will be out in November! It is called, " The Gift". In the book, he gives the 12 most important gifts- the tools of personal growth-and shows how to apply each of them in your life right now. Chapter 2 is the "Gift of Arbonne." He says, "Groups like Arbonne are rare. And it's very uplifting to me to see an organization in which thousands of individuals are "living" the best personal growth concepts and using the tools of personal, growth daily, in their own lives. They also have one of the best on-going trainig programs of any of the organizations I have studied."
Mr. Helmstetter is NOT an Arbonne Consultant; has done workshops all over for many companies, and at the age of 62, he recently said, that he will only schedule workshops with Arbonne because he says that he knows these individuals will keep working on what they have learned and what is working for them. These are just a few of the reasons.
I just got the book, and could not put it down. It's for everyone!! NOT just Arbonne consultants.
I've been an Arbonne consultant for one year now, and these postings have really helped me. It makes me a little sad with the negative things said. Yet, I am learning that I've been a little naive to think that EVERYONE will see what I see in the Arbonne opportunity. It isn't for everyone! I have two degrees in Music Education,and never thought that I would be doing something like this.
Like we've read earlier, in a business like this, some think we will "loose" our friends. I do know that a few of my friendships have been strained, but to be honest, this adventure is really allowing me to REALLY find true friends. I have many friends who have said no to the product and the business, and we are still friends. They support me and hope the best for me as I do them.
I've never posted anything like this, and appreciate whomever reads it. OH, Shad Helmstetter will be speaking at the Arbonne conference in Kentucky next month. Melissa
September 28, 2005 at 2:17 pm
Alright, I DID IT!
There are now Arbonne Forums so you can discuss the Arbonne product and opportunity.
Check it out!
September 28, 2005 at 2:19 pm
You're right Melissa, Dr. Helmstetter's book is very insightful. See ya in Kentucky.
I suppose I should just let the post before Melissa go because I suspect any response will be perceived as over zealous defense of Arbonne specifically, or MLM in general, and I�ll be labeled as not being able to accept criticism, etc., etc.�
It�s just that contained in this post by �spazmo� is such utter nonsense that, for his sake, as well as those of you who buy into this thinking, I should express a few thoughts. Not that it�ll do any good, but it may help those of you new in the business to recognize such tripe for what it is.
When you want to get expert advice on anything, who do you speak to? Someone educated in that field or someone with experience, SUCCESSFUL experience, right? You don�t go to your neighbor for advice with your IRA if you just learned he lost all his money in the stock market. Likewise, as another example, you WOULD look for a recommendation for the college your child wishes to attend from someone who graduated from that school. Am I right? In other words it makes little sense to listen to those who have failed at something, or are ignorant on the subject, to find out about it or to find out how to do it successfully.
So why, spazmo, should anybody listen to what you say? You obviously know very little about Arbonne and your characterization of the Network Marketing industry is very clich�d. Can you please share with us how YOU made your millions and what your average day is like? It would certainly help to know that you have found a better way and that your experience is what qualifies you to comment as you did.
People may not like what I say, they may not agree with me and they may despise the way I say it or that I say it at all, but I have genuine qualifications that give me certain credibility for those who really want to listen with an objective attitude. Those of you who don�t and just want to lob insults and criticisms here just don�t make sense to me. Spazmo is not here commenting with the desire to learn or debate or to, with an open mind, consider different opinions or to engage in personal development, as Amyla wanted to suggest was the purpose of such critics. He is here with one goal in mind; to make those in the business feel like they are wrong, if not stupid, for joining, and to label those who are successful as deceitful and greedy. Okay�that�s two goals, but you get the point.
I must add, because it comes up so often from spazmo�s kind of thinking, the notion of working harder is so mischaracterized, and in a way that shows such illogical thinking, I am just amazed. Advising someone to work harder is very sound advice if they�re not working hard enough. If I want to learn to play the piano, but am struggling to do so on 15 minutes of practice a week, what do you think my instructor will advise me to do? Quit or practice more??
No one who is successful in network marketing, in ANY company, advises those who ARE working hard to just �work harder� if they�re not seeing results. That may be a case of needing to work SMARTER; and we train on how to do that all the time. Our motivation is not simply to make more for ourselves, but see others achieve the goals they have set for themselves. The fact that we make more when those under us make more is what drives the business at every level. If we didn�t make more by investing our time and energy into those on our team we wouldn�t bother to do it. Just like if you didn�t pay your plumber, he wouldn�t come back the next time you needed him. The difference is we do it for dozens of people not knowing in advance if it ever will pay off. (And for those who are so cynical about me�no, I don�t get paid on anybody here or for participating. I�m not trying to recruit, for me or anyone else, and I didn�t threaten anyone�not even �bordering� on that.)
September 28, 2005 at 3:41 pm
Having read through this blog, I'm exhausted! A word of wisdom: keep your comments to a short paragraph and more people will read it! I have only bought Arbonne for myself. I just discovered that the dermatitis on my hands (red, itchy rash)was cured with Arbonne's Hand Cream! Over the years I have tried everything from OTC hydrocortisone to prescription creams/ointments. Diprolene worked the best, but didn't cure it. By chance I noticed my hands looking better in the mornings after getting up. I realized I had recently started putting the hand cream on before bed. I ceased the prescription stuff and started applying the hand cream on the affected areas about 3-4 times a day. Almost immediately my hands were better! Within 3 days, my problem disappeared! Great stuff!
September 28, 2005 at 4:31 pm