text:
No, we don't need 1 billion dollar ships…and we damn sure don't need HALF billion dollar+ ships that are completely unproven and rely on technology that is also not proven. SECDEF, you are putting your money on the wrong horse, you need to re-think this one and ask someone else for input other than the contractors and their damn lobbyists. Your military advisors are also feeding you a line if you think LCS is the answer to your prayers.
My ideas from another post comment string:
A question in the comment string on the "war of tomorrow" post asked whether we could find a surface unit that would be effective across the spectrum. Anyway, here was my answer on the other blog. (Mentioned in context of a "new" Gearing)
…"I would think that a modern Gearing is a 4500 ton (ish) 30+ knot platform with a 6,000-mile radius that carries a significant weapons suite. At least one 5″ or 6″ gun (as long as AGSS can fire good ol' HE from time to time), VLS pod, and ADA systems that give some defense against cruise missiles and subsonic attack aircraft. Sturdy, survivable, not over-engineered.
Probably not a 14,000-ton, $3 billion capital unit. And a full crew, perhaps 180-200. Not a "super crew" of 40 who can't eat, sleep, or simultaneously repair damage and fight, should the ship find itself in action. Likely not carrying AEGIS, but able to link in to the wider network if required."
Sort of like the love child of an FFG-7 and Berthoff cutter?
*Burma Shave*
Hayball had mentioned a gray Berthoff cutter, something else that has gotten some vertical head nods on this blog….
Time, though, is the enemy. Unless you've got 30 or so Berhoffs on the ways . . .
Berthing space is going to be an issue. Those offshore boats weren't big to begin with, and if you had a MARDET/SPECOPSDET it's gone from bad to worse. Mounting weapons, no big deal, magazines maybe so (or at least ease some BUORD restrictions). Speed will also be a problem, as the OSWBs aren't very fast. You could slide a RHIB down the stern though.
lesser ajax
We should also consider the risk of exposing a multi-billion dollar warship to combat risks in relation to the relatively low returns of even the most successful anti-piracy event (avoiding relatively modest ransom for ship and/or hostages). Let's face it: Pirates with machine guns and RPGs can render a DDG OOC for several mission areas if they shoot from close range at the right places. Repairs would probably be time consuming, out of theater, and expensive. Given the diminishing fleet size and stressed maintenance budget, is the return worth this risk to the functionality of the combatant fleet? Maybe that alone justifies investing in low cost anti-piracy options.
We've managed to do this before. When an urgent need was defined for increased drug interdiction that required 'more ships and more ships NOW', a batch of gulf-built crew boats were hastily assembled in to what proved to be a very operationally effective USCG squadron.
Hardly a fluke…or was it?
I think the best way to fight these pirates is to use the frigates that we have NOW and assign them to piracy patrols. I am also in favor of sending US Coast Guard cutters to patrol those waters and put a stop and arrest these pirates.
As for the long term solution, I think we need to start building these LCS ships and have the US Coast Guard chip in on the cost as well. I also think that we will eventually have to go back to Somalia and finish the job we left behind. I think we need to go in their and hunt them down on land and prop up with a stable Government with US minders to stay behind to make sure they stay stable.
If we don't, you know who and said terrorist can waltz right in and use that place as a base of operations like they did in Afghanistan. So we will eventually in the long run will have to think about going back to Somalia and root them out.
Drones for OTH recon and tracking? Would be cheaper than using gobs of hours on helo engines and crews.
A fast response and quick re-tooling was required during the Tanker Wars in the Persian Gulf against Iran, where there too, small fast boats were attacking ships. The solution then was two large barges obtained from an oil services company, they served as a floating command post / base for the small boats and helicopters (They even utilized the Army's special helicopter team). This solution was not perfect, but it worked and was inexpensive. Plus, it was a non-permanent solution so after the conflict there was not a vast amount of equipment to maintain and operate.
Incorporation of other departments and organizations will greatly help the transition. It may be in the Navy's best interest not to incorporate a ship or equipment platform for this current task, but to design a task force or team that can rapidly acquire equipment from the DOD and off the shelf to create a temporary and specialized unit that can be dissolved once the mission has been accomplished. This would allow the Navy to address this task efficiently without handcuffing itself for the next.
NavSea has destroyed its own credibility in shipbuilding and design, at least on the surface side of the house, and credibility is all.
In the short term the Navy needs small, well armed, austere general purpose warships in some numbers. Its bureaucracy can't get such an ugly, servicable, tough, spartan and adaptable red headed stepson of a ship in the water ahead of schedule and under budget. That's reality, regrettably.
Sucks. Well, face it.
There are plenty of proven good designs out there, in somebody else's navy. Go look for two. Small and damn small. A frigate and a corvette.
Pick them. Then build them under license in at least three american yards simultaneously. Watch all the yards like hawks, and make it clear the first one to screw up the job, quality, schedule, or budget, gets the ax for the rest of the production run. Then kill the volunteer who screws up. The other two will get competitive. Find a new hungry third, they'll stay so.
Then get a pressure washer, an industrial vac, a needle gun, and an exothermic torch. Pick a Rear Admiral, a smart, tough love kind of leader with technical chops, promote her, and order her to put on her blue dress and red petticoat and take the tools to NavSea shipbuilding and design and clean house. When she does, promote her again.
Just sayin', 'cause when my Momma had blood in her eye, we would say the Devil is coming in a blue dress and a red petticoat. Then me and my three scamp brothers would get real busy being real good.
Credibility is all. Always has been.
One old fart's opinion. Just being colorful. Worth all you paid for it. Anybody got a better answer?
Perfect agreement, one old fart to another.
VADM J. C. harvey, Jr USN
For Wright, excellent ideas – as a rule, we need to get in the habit of looking for more workable solutions of the relatively "off-the-shelf" variety, as you propose, than focusing on going into a conceptualize-design-acquire-build mode for a custom-built response to a unique problem.
I have in mind how Navy geared up for and executed Operation Market Time in Vietnam, a type of seaborne interdiction conducted in the littoral we hadn't performed since the Civil War. I believe we rapidly adapted what we had (ex, modified LSTs moored in rivers as helo pads) instead of relying upon design-for-purpose platforms (PBRs excluded). Thanks, JCHjr
My opinion, we should go with off the shelf designs and that is well proven and very reliable. Using the latest and greatest in Frigate technology. We should be going with something that other navies around the world are designing and using
Here's my list of recommended Frigate designs the US Navy and the US Coast Guard should be looking at,
Anzac class frigate
Floréal class frigate
La Fayette class frigate
Sachsen class frigate
De Zeven Provinciën class frigate
Fridtjof Nansen class frigate
Álvaro de Bazán class frigate
Formidable class frigate
Valour class frigate
Now for a corvette design, I think the US Navy and the US Coast Guard should go with a proven design such as the
Braunschweig class corvette
Sigma class corvette
VADM, one of the biggest problems standing in the way of a "snap kick" solution will be three fold: NAVSEA, the big MilCorps, and Congress. There will be a ton of "Not Invented Here!" screams, along with "Not in compliance with standards!", as well as the usual "chickens sans head" crowd.
Bryon, easy response to the "NIH" crowd.
We did make 'em here! Ambassador MK III FACs for Egypt, Saar 5 boats for Israel etc etc! Big contractors involved in it all.
US shipbuilders and system companies can and do make small fighting ships. Big grey hulks commanded by higher ranking guys are just cooler than little FACs and corvettes.
Combine small heavily armed FACs and corvettes with some motherships with helicopter/light UAV capacity. Have your FACs out for a couple days and come back for resupply, helos for help, UAVs for recon.
No argument, Spade, but just how loud will the whining and begging be when "new program" is announced. It'll get staffed to death to start. Lot's of shortcuts if we go Eagle1 and/or VADM Harveys route, and there'll be gored oxen and broken rice bowls everywhere. You KNOW how DC works.
Wright, I concur with you in principle, but I don't know how temporary the pirate issue will be. Many have said in this forum that until the governemnt inland of the high tide mark improves in Somalia, it will be hard to completely stem the pirate phenomenon.
A small flotilla of off the shelf corvettes or small boats would not only be a cheap way to deal with piracy, but would go very far in improving another condition that has been remarked on frequently of late: shiphandling. Buy these vessels and pick a group of motivated LTs to command them (they're out there, in hiding). The experience will measurably add to their judgement and command ability – before we risk one of our multi-billion dollar ships with them. Promote those who are successful, and promote them early. I'm throwing out a rough figure, but I estimate the PC/MCM command opportunity to be probably about 5% of a YG. If we increase that figure, it could go a long way in improving the aggregate knowledge of navigation and seamanship in the Surface Navy.
Two birds with one stone is a good thing.
Does anyone have a clue how these guys are getting their intel? For sure, they aren't just drifting about in the "sea lanes". What's the chances of finding out how they're doing it, and rolling them up from the back side?
"For sure, they aren't just drifting about in the "sea lanes"."
Byron, it might be just that simple. The pirate-fisherman-pirate-intel source-fisherman network is probably quite extensive. Also, an astounding amount of ship and crew manifest info is public domain. (First seriously questioned in reference to port security)
I would bet my bottom dollar, if it hadn't gone to the IRS yesterday, that they are using the most reliable and secure sources known to man. Observation and word of mouth.
URR: First, the sea, she be big. Unless they have a fairly sophisticated network of fishermen with satellite phones, how can they arrainge to be in FRONT of a potential victim? Second question: are most of the ships captured southbound out of the Suez? Because if they are….
I just find it very hard to believe that they can get THIS lucky with so many ships, especially given that the ships masters are aware of the fact and are quite probably going out of their normal lanes by a reasonable margin. Keep in mind also, that the futher out to sea they go, the more area they have to cover in order to set up an attempt.
Just my two cents worth, and worth about that much…
You are indeed correct, but I would be willing to bet they (the pirates, the "edlers", and other clansmen) talk to each other, crews of ships in nearby ports, even UN officials who (heaven forbid!) might be somewhat corrupt and understand the value of foodstuff and other items on the considerable black market.
My sense is that they have a very, very good network, focused on a few pieces of critical info, and can glean what they need without popping their heads up into our radar.
All you got is two cents, too? Funny how that happens every April.
I'll be your civ tech rep for hull repairs 😉
regarding that group of motivated LTs. They're not in hiding, they just haven't been asked. Command at sea in an aggressive role; you'll have people beating down the door.
To quote Eagle1:
"Don't send a "clean hands" Lieutenant – send that guy who hates the bureaucracy and his buddy.
The kind of LT who uses cans of coffee to smooth shipyard wheels- if you get my drift. (Here's another hint – if he offers to do a Power Point presentation- he's the wrong guy…)"
I'll raise my hand right now, I have a buddy too.
Chuck Hill
Bet there are a lot of Tuna boats we could lease. They are reasonably fast, have long legs and good boat handling facilities, and most have a small helo deck.
Chuck – but they smell like … tuna.
Stay WAY the hell away from a pogie boat. Won't tell you what it smells like, but it does make a shrimp boat smell like a flower cart.
For a good book on modern piracy: Langewiesche, William (2004). The Outlaw Sea : A World of Freedom, Chaos, and Crime. New York: North Point Press. ISBN 0-86547-581-4.
If I recall, pirates got info from those in the shipping business by bribes.
SecDef Gates says,
'As Stalin once said, "Quantity has a quality all of its own."'
Great, as our government becomes more statist in nature, Stalin is used to justify the SecDef's reasoning behind his decisions. How intellectually bankrupt have our leaders become?
In what context did Stalin say "Quantiy has a quality all of its own?" I want a legimate source, not some fabrication or Bueller.
Stalin also said: "When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use."
and: "World dictatorship can be established only when the victory of socialism has been achieved in certain countries or groups of countries."
"We need lots of hulls in the water – tomorrow – not 3 years from now. "
I would say something a tad different. We need lots of hulls in the water. Now AND three years from now. Expedient ideas now, with a goal of a platform capable of efficiently and affordably handling this and other low and mid-tech missions without the half billion plus pricetag.
Do you agree or disagree with the Stalin quotes?
In what direction do you think this country is heading?
Towards capitalism or towards socialism?
D. E. Reddick
What about reincarnating a longer-legged version of a 78-ft Higgins Boat PT (MTB or MGB of WW-II) or the Asheville class of gunboats on a FAC or very small corvette hullform.
Replace the WW-II era weaponry (abandoning the torpedoes and depth charges) of the PT / MTB / MGB:
Single 40-mm Bofors;
Single 37-mm cannon;
Two 20-mm Oerlikon cannon;
Two twin 50-cal. M2 or Ma-Deuce Browning machine-guns;
Forward 25-mm chaingun;
Two twin 50-cal. M2 Browning machine-gun mounts just forward of the pilot-house;
Two twin 50-cal. M2 Browning machine-gun mounts just aft of the pilot-house and bridge;
One automatic 40-mm grenade launcher further aft (amidships) of the pilot-house and bridge superstructure;
One aft-mounted 25-mm chaingun, near the stern.
If the hullform chosen is that of a small corvette, then maybe replace the forward 25-mm chaingun with a 57-mm main gun. Also, between the 40-mm grenade launcher and stern 25-mm place a SeaRAM launcher. And if the corvette is large enough, insert a flight deck and hanger for UAVs and un-manned helos (with the SeaRAM mounted atop the the hanger, aft of the 40-mm grenade launcher and forward of the stern-most 25-mm chaingun. Also, of course – the 25-mm chainguns could be replaced with the longer-ranged 30-mm chainguns.
It should simply be a small warship that can take on any pirate force and overwhelm them. Also, it should be able to stand outside a foreign harbor and defend any docked USN or allied naval force against asymmetric attacks. The Israeli Navy has similarly armed FACs and corvettes. They work quite well, according to news reports (except for when a CIWS was down and a C-801 struck a corvette).
Historial links:
Or, what about modern designs – links:
In terms of the USN, consider an armed Sea Fighter or an enlarged Stiletto with some armaments. We have the infrastructure to support such platforms with the fleet's amphibs.
Or, purchase the designs for the Swedish Visby and/or Norwegian Skjold classes and modify as needed to meet USN requirements.
Let's just get some fast shooters in place and make it unprofitable for pirates to try and ply their trade!
D. E. Reddick
Nothing like staying on topic…
My time is valuable, and I like to get right to the heart and soul of the matter. The Stalin quote is on topic because SecDef Gates used it and you included it in your post.
The fundamental issue facing the state of our nation at this moment is what direction this country is heading. Towards statism or towards capitalism?
Now is SecDef Gates making his decisions based on the reality of the current state of our nation or based on something Stalin supposedly said?
Now, the reason why we are going to have a cheaper department of pirate fighting is because the U.S. Government no longer has the money to fund anything else.
In otherwords, financial bankruptcy is also at play along with the intellectual bankruptcy.
Eagle 1: what is the cause and what is the effect?
The two choices are financial bankruptch and intellectual bankruptcy.
This is a job for Coast Guard equipment. 87′ cutters and RHIBs (plus UAVs/helos?). You only need to be able to operate in the same conditions as the pirates can, and you don't need much firepower to deter them. Adopt the mothership system they use and you'll be able to protect large convoys of merchant vessels with one or two small cutters. (Heck I'll go fight pirates in a restored PT boat if I can get the keys to one.)
Question about Yemen: the pre-2009 piracy pattern involved a heavy concentration of attacks along the Yemeni shore. Now those pirate dhows don't look fast, and the Gulf of Aden is 200nm wide. Is there any evidence that the pirates have been using the Yemeni shore as a home-away-from-home, to refuel, buy food and water and khat, rest, etc.?
Cdr Mark Condeno
As I have posted on influence squadrons I beleived Patrol Boats would be the best asset or platform for this fight I hope we still remember the PT's and MTB 's of the Pacific and the Med-42 knot speeds with MG's and Torpedoes splashing on the target,but I guess MG's or a Stinger type weapon on board would be a formidable type of weapon
Eagle1 et al.,
A lot of references to smaller (>100′) boats for this duty. Undoubtedly they can carry sufficient armament and have requisite speed, but how about sustained ops or weather effects?
How would you keep these boats supplied and running for ops that stretch into years? And is such a force and its maint/logistics component a fairly manpower-intensive proposition?
You sound a tad skeptical of the web of information the pirate warlords have access to. For the kind of money changing hands with ransom payments, you can bet that these warlords have an astonishingly complete picture of what ships and cargo move through those shipping lanes. That picture was compiled from a very wide variety of sources, some of whom I mentioned, and also Jay's reference that palms are greased at shipping companies and cargo handling outfits.
We sometimes forget that one doesn't need gee-whiz gadgetry and high-tech signals equipment to do this. Their EEI list is a short one indeed, and they have a lot of people to draw from.
Rick W, you ask me if I agree with Stalin's quotes?
You betcha. The man knew about obtaining and holding power.
As for the other question, regarding socialism v capitalism, I will abstain here. Otherwise I might be tagged a disgruntled returning Combat Vet extremist. 🙂
URR, your moral agnosticism suits you well. I rank Stalin along with Hitler and Kant as the three most evil ilk to walk this earth. Power corrupts and the United States is collapsing because of it.
URR, I humbly submit that what you just described IS an intelligence network. I suspect they also have people reporting to them from Egypt to get information on ships transiting the SC.
Moral agnosticism? I didn't say that Stalin's ideas were anything but evil incarnate. But the man knew about the apparatus of totalitarian governmental terror. The West refused to take seriously this knowledge, and didn't listen whatever to the words being spoken at the various COMINTERNs throughout the 20s and 30s. They also discounted a certain Austrian ex-Corporal and his treatise regarding Europe's future.
But to reinforce Eagle's point, what in Sam Hill does this have to do with fighting piracy off Somalia?
It has everything to do with fighting a tribal culture. Philosophically speaking, two things are needed to win.
1. Individual rights.
2. Objective law.
Do you know how to fight for and defend those two principles or are you only interested in gaining power and making pirates walk the plank?
URR, it's got everything to do with Ricks agenda. It's the only sort of topic he can ever talk about, and as he has shown, he has no problem thread-jacking just to ramble on about it.
Rick, your recording is getting old, how about putting another on one? Don't bother replying, you'll be typing to an empty screen.
"Do you know how to fight for and defend those two principles…?"
You GOTTA be kidding me. I may be a dumb Marine Cannon-cocker, but a stronger Constitutional Constructionist you will likely not find.
However, I find no incompatibility between those ideals and killing pirates who threaten US freedom of the seas and kidnap or threaten US citizens. If Jefferson didn't, I think I have solid case not to, either.
Perhaps ol' Rick thinks the pirates are disciples of Kant or Schiller. Sure, they kidnap and kill, but to follow KANT?!?!?! We can't let that go….
Can you say, "INCOMING!" ? 🙂
Yep. Just in time for me to get back to work.
"A lot of references to smaller (>100′) boats for this duty. Undoubtedly they can carry sufficient armament and have requisite speed, but how about sustained ops or weather effects?"
Well, for weather effects check Eagle1's blog posts on weather and pirate activities. These guys are in small boats and can't handle the weather. I THINK (and hopefully he'll correct me) that if the wind is over 15 kts the pirates pack it in. So as long as our boats can operate in slightly worse environments than the bad guys, we're okay.
Sustained ops: seabase! Like we did against iran, or in Vietnam. Take a cargo ship or amphib, all that other stuff we've been working on for the concept. I'd love an old LHA for part of it (full chopper support right there). Don't need anything fancy. Some place the crew can pull up near, get off the boat, resupply, act as C2, etc. Have a 51 class with that.
Sufficent armarment is up for debate. So long as "sufficient" equals "lots".
Sufficient would be M-4s, shotguns, M-240, Ma Deuce, and 40mm grenade launchers. And lots of zip ties, gonna need them to. Personally, I'd stop every boat out there, ask them nicely to let me do an inspection, and if I find more than a shark gun, take the crew into custody, sink the boat and the arms, and drop them off on the beach. Tell them, "go out heavily armed, you lose your boat. Sucks to be you.". Biggest asset will be some sort of aerial recon. Don't think they'll want to keep a satellite overhead, and God knows the P-3s have issues with longevity and wing cracks. Maybe bring back a short squadron of S-3s and shore base them somewhere near?
Small attack craft can successfully engage pirates. They have problems with escort.
Issues include: Range, endurance (not the same thing, seakeeping, evaporators, AC – for the reliability of Cwhatever gear and Fire Control, sanitation, and a serious lack of reliability by duplication for weapons systems and ships systems, and reliability by on board tech maintenence). Boats are not as robust as ships and take a lot of detailed maintenence, most of which cannot be accomplished when at sea.
It's the old three in hand to keep one running problem, exacerbated by crew rest(for physical exhaustion after a few days in open ocean)and daily, weekly and monthly maintence which must be done in port, regularly, or you are towing one boat home with another. So the proportion for a 24 seven operation is closer to 4 to one or, intermittently, higher. Boats and crews wear out fast in the open ocean.
Remember, the attacker picks his time and place, attacks, wins or loses, and dies or goes home for R & R. The defender stays with the escorted ship, in constant readiness. Unless the damn boat is OOC.
Burning down every seacoast town in Somolia has counter productive stategic influences for the overall national security situation. If you don't get that, well there is plenty of work for brave guys who love frontal assaults. Positions are always opening. The strategic and operational planning levels are just not your strong suit.
The hunger for the quick fix is palpable. Secondary consequences from the execution of the quick fix make the long slog inevitable.
We should have learned that from Iraq, if nothing else. Proper planning for a long campaign is almost always quicker and more efficacious. Or, if name dropping will help, Liddell-Hart: "The long way around is often the shortest way home."
The issue, my opinion, is how to bridge the gap between now and when sufficient appropriate assets can be mobilized using the fleet in being.
Two paradigms must be broken. One is that it ain't our job.
The other is that we can't mobilize 36 small ships from scratch in less than 7 to fifteen years.
Both are widely accepted. Both are preposterous, unless you don't know any history.
Make that
"how to bridge the gap using the fleet in being until sufficient appropriate assets can be mobilized."
Dropped a comma.
ROFL, Hayball! Summed it up very nicely. I really liked the "positions are opening", just wonder if they can bring along their armchairs? 🙂
Telly Savalas as Kojak used to say "Pick up every pimp in New York"
Byron: "Stop every boat out there"? I respectfully disagree.
Too much ocean, too many boats, not enough patrol assets.
This all got thrashed out in 1916, 1939-40, and 1942. The answer is c-o-n-v-o-y. Supplemented by r-a-i-d-s on bases.
Nelson: "You will find this lack of frigates graven upon my heart"
Too bad we threw all ours away, now we have to build them back up.
Now I really feel bad, picking a bone with you just when you were giving me such a nice compliment. No offense I hope (red face).
Didn't say every boat, did I? 🙂 Enough will spread the word though..can you say, "herding"?
you guys need to look and talk more about Eagle1's home page a few months back.
he proposed using heavy oil field boats as frigates. mounting an M1A1 on the back (for the stabilized gun, a really important feature for water work) putting containers fitted out for marines to live in on the back and maybe installing a landing pad for helicopters on the far rear of the hull.
he did this several months ago.
the proposal had a lot of real good points.
there's lots of those boats on the beach in the texas, louisananana and mississsississippi areas that are looking for work. (if someone wants to whine about contracts and such then copy the charter contracts for the half dozen that USN already has in service).
we could have them leave CONUS and do the mods in the iraq or barain or … when they get there, use the steaming time for preparation.
might i point out that they already have pretty good radar etc. for picking up small boats etc. as they are dodging shrimpers etc. all day long off of the texas oil coast.
i made an off the wall statement at the time that they could do some kind of get and go deal and be passing the seabouy by sundown.
the damdest thing is that he proposed it long enough ago that if someone had paid attention to him they could have been over there shooting at bumb boats THREE MONTHS AGO.
Hayball and Byron hit the two salient issues. The units need to be capable of pursuing and engaging pirates, as well as escort of any convoy system developed.
Wasn't it Prien (U47) that said "A ship not in convoy is a target. A convoy without escort are targets conveniently gathered."?
"Too bad we threw all ours away, now we have to build them back up."
Indeedy. But we HAVE done it before.
We built more than 60 destroyers from laying keel to commissioning
between August 1944 and August 1945. A proven design, with proven technology, might be something to try again to heal the "lack of frigates graven upon" the US Navy.
nother proposal.
we have these ships called LHD's (BOXER). they are like the LHA's but have at least one major difference in that the LHA's had a partition down the middle of the well deck that ended about 80-100 feet from the stern. this only allowed them to carry internally ONE of those big hover craft craft the marines love so well. LHD's do not have that partition and can carry TWO of those hovercraft. add some more guns to the hovercraft, maybe a bradly in the well so that if they run into someone thats nasty then drop the ramp and badda bing, badda bing, vava voom.
what if we loaded two or three more of the hover craft on one of the upcomming deploying LHD's flight deck as deck cargo, take the two normally carried in the well deck. and send her over there.
this would give us galrahans mother ship and small boys with 55 knots speed. the LHD's helicopters could provide scouting etc….
the LHD has plenty of volume and facilities for the additional equipment plus one or two extra marines to haras the squids.
ITS ALL ON HAND ASSETS. all they gotta do is cut orders.
chop it up at your leisure.
you forget: the military is at war. america is at the mall.
I don't forget. I am reminded every day.
Biggest problem I see is shortage of assets. Long coast, whole lotta ocean. You need enough to escort two big convoys in oppposite directions, and not have the lobos take down any beeves on the edge of the herd.
That's hard on Lassie and Rin Tin Tin because they are going to be running all day and all night. That's why you need big dogs and plenty of them.
The LHD makes a nice boat house for hovercraft. The hovercraft skirts might be vulnerable to RPG fire and I don't know much about their maintenence cycle, but I suspect they might need a lot of down time. Can they sally on short notice (less than two minutes) from the well, or do they have to have the LHA flood down? Sweet asset for reaching the ship that is already taken, but can it stay with it until the frigate gets there 12 hours later.
Out on the edge of development, aren't there some high speed SWATH's and a big rigid sidewall hovercraft they were playing with?
Blimps might work out well, too. Maritime air cover when the enemy has no AAW capability is REALLY effective. Too bad the P-3's have their own crisis going. How bad is it for them? I don't know. There is someone out there who can tell us, I'll wager.
Once in a while, somebody unglamorous shows up and can sing better than most pros. So I'm all for keeping an open mind and giving an ugly duckling their chance. But only an audition.
Until we get enough frigates and corvettes and cutters working a systematic convoy plan, use anything you can lay your hands on.
As a stop gap.
But don't kid yourself. This is going to take some serious shipbuilding under forced draft and a lot of patrolling, boarding, escorting from C to B to A and then from A to B to C.
Then repeat, every day for five years, at best, 15 more likely.
We threw away the easy button in the 90's.
You dog you! Quoting Prien? Put her there!
You are hot tonight!
Hah! Head full o' useless stuff. Batting averages, torque ratings, muzzle velocities of three calibers of howitzer.
Any chance of remembering birthdays of nieces and nephews? Nope.
Actually I am not sure it was Prien that said that. Might have been Kretschmer or even Donitz. But it was one of the famous ones…
*Burma Shave*
But whomever said it, knew whatof they spoke.
Chuck Hill
Let's talk bases for a moment, because if we have any, we can work the problem with smaller vessels.
Could the Seychelles fit into this. They seem to be at the south end of the danger area.
Are there Somali islands with suitable harbors that the "central government" might authorize us to use that we could make secure relatively economically?
mr. Hayball
with 5+ hovercraft per LHD all but two would have to be buzzing around being pestiferous while the two were in the well refueling and rearming. this would modify the two minute drill when getting underway.
the LHD has strong enough air search and surface search gear to possibly do convoy duties from the center of the herd.(remember the mast on those things is tall enough to get quite a distance out of surface search radars simply by antenna placement).
flooding down does take time but the boat can steam right along while they are doing it. they would scream and shout safety about entering and exiting the well while underway though.
23 hour a day operating time probably would burn up the hover craft in pretty short order, but i think that this mess will be over in pretty short order if the grey hulls manage to get a good rapid response system going.
what will work will be simple, easy and done in very little time with on hand assets. going through the procurement route will be a disaster.
it might be as simple as high speed 15k+ convoys. (eagle speak says that very few ships operating below ~14k get grabbed, possibly because the small pirate boats can't get up to that speed in rougher waters)
also a classic search, find and sink fleet evoloution with the mother ships would probably solve the problem after about 10 successes.
Chuck Hill
Eagle1's proposal is about what to do before something else more appropriate is built.
There has been a lot of discussion about what we should build for this particular mission, but if we are going to build something, wouldn't it be better to build something we had already identified a continuing need for, something already planned for production in the US? This is really a law enforcement operation, so Coast Guard assets are appropriate.
If we accelerate the Coast Guard's current program and don't decommision the existing ships faster than we now plan to, there will have a temporary increase in the number of ships available for this mission, and when the mission is over we will have ships we would have needed anyway.
using old coasties would probably mean a certain "yard period" before they would be ready for the trip as the coast guard is thrifty and if they are ready to decommission a hull that means it doesn't have another mile left in it. literaly.
Something that needs to be kept in mind when discussing this topic:Logistics, and what it will all cost during a period of tightened defense budget belts. That's going to be your problem.
LCACs with either a Bradley or a LAV would be terrible for anti-piracy. There is virtually NO field of fire for a vehicle chained on the deck, and the operating environment is extremely uncomfortable. There's a reason the vehicle crews have to ride in the passenger compartment when the LCACs are underway. I think a better idea would be to stash some PB MkIIIs or whatever the current standard is aboard an amphib. Better firepower, better seakeeping. Should you use an LHA/LHD or use an LPD or LSD? Dunno. I suspect either would work. The big deck gives you better aviation, but the small decks would seem to be the cheaper solution.
Chuck Hill
"using old coasties would probably mean a certain "yard period" before they would be ready for the trip as the coast guard is thrifty and if they are ready to decommission a hull that means it doesn't have another mile left in it. literaly."
Wasn't saying to use old Coast Guard ships for anti-priracy, but rather to speed up production of replacement and use the additional ships, completed earlier than planned for anti-piracy.
Earlier studies had suggested that speeding up Deepwater would save money in the long run, and this way we would be buying no more ships than originally planned, we might get a savings from buying in quantity, and we get ships appropriate to the mission too.
I would say to combat Piracy, they should use Frigates or Corvettes and use the following frigate and corvette designs
De Zeven Provinciën class frigate
Sachsen class frigate
La Fayette class frigate
Formidable class frigate
Braunschweig class corvette
I would use something that is off the shelf. Has a very proven design and that it can be adaptable to meet the needs of the US Navy, US Coast Guard. I would look at the European navies and look at their Frigates for design examples and see if we can buy the design and have our shipbuilders build it under license from them.
I would also look at using an LHA and LHD as a mothership and base of operations.
Much as we all love to play with really big Tonka toy sets, and think about the really cool accessories the new model (name any vehicle), planning and execution of a series of mutually supporting military operations, using tailored packages of mutually supporting organizations and their organic equipment over a significant period of time, to decisively defeat an enemy conducting lethal operations against widespread civilian populations and ecomomic activities as well a one's own military forces; in other words, conducting a military CAMPAIGN… will always involve one decisive factor independent of skill, elan, or superiority of numbers, or quality of equipment.
What is that?
Which takes preparation, planning, and prepurchase of essential
Good logistics are expensive. About one tenth the price of bad logistics. Good logistics are an even better bargain in terms of blood spilt.
The more Naval History you read, the clearer it becomes.
Just like the price you pay to marry a really intellgent woman, which is not cheap. Just 1/100th the price of marrying a stupid one.
The only thing dumber is paying ransom to save money and blood.
Hayball, cut to the chase. Paying ransom is pragmatism. Logistics requires fundamental principles.
Chuck Hill:
The proven way to generate military power in expeditionary or naval campaigns is to sieze and hold (or rent)a defensible port and airport in close proximity to another, and within reach of the key geographic Area of Operations.
You base Tenders (logistic, repair, medical, armory and C3 "mother" ships) in the port, and have a military engineering organization improve the piers, connecting roads and airport facilities as required.
You then shuttle bulk supply ships to the port and time critical items via supply aircraft to the airport.
This allows you to keep task groups for aviation, amphibious operations, patrol and interdiction/convoy, and supply (beans, bullets, fuel)conducting or supporting operations against the enemy continuously, until he is decisively defeated, because you have a BASE for maintenence and supply.
Scale will vary based on the size of the AOR and the enemy forces.
This can be done quite rapidly if you have tenders provisioned, trained and ready to deploy.
Too bad we threw away almost all our tenders in the '90's
You took the words out of my mouth regarding tenders and other auxiliaries. Sure would be nice to have 'em about now, for just about all the proposals mentioned here. We have very few left, and what is in Suisun Bay is hardly in a preservation status, apparently.
We might wind up learning some more "peace dividend" lessons the hard way.
Paying ransom just makes hostage taking a growth industry, which leads to paying more and higher ransom, repeat.
Dumb. Counterproductive. Antipragmatic, except for the craven and the weak, and then only if you immediately flee the area. Far from the area.
Aggression met with appeasement begats worse agression. Read the newspaper much? 20th century history?
Ditto bribery.
"Once you surrender the Danegelt, you never get rid of the Dane":
SUCCESS requires fundamental PRINCIPLES, which you learn when you read and compare history across time.
Fundamentals. Pointed out to raise the level of the discussion, and improve the practicality of the recommendations.
Well, I can hope, can't I?
"We never pay any one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost"
Jefferson understood. Will we?
So Chuck, given that you need a harbor, piers, POL facilities, a secure connecting road, a substantial airport and a defensible perimeter around the whole shebang, all within reach of the battlespace (convoy route & pirate bases), what does google maps come up with along this X000 miles of God forsaken wilderness coastline and adjoining archipelago?
Just asking. No harm in that, right?
Let me see, we have two major regional campaigns in progress- one maybe winning, one maybe losing-, another moderate scale regional contingency heating up, smaller pots bubbling in about 3-6 other places I can think of, we're flat broke, our industrial base is in free fall, in hock up to our eyeballs for about the next two generations, and the Best and the Brightest all say: "Cut the defense budget by 10% this year, and stand by for deeper cuts in the out years as you finish what you have on your plate now".
Because nothing will get worse, only better.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Everything we have is rode hard and put up wet for the better part of a decade.
What, me worry about no AS, AD, AR, ARS, ATF, AOE, AE, AOR, or super combo can't shoot back civilian manned fleet train in one vessel ships that aren't mothballed, transferred to Gillette to make super blue blades, or overtasked already?
I mean, we got two LCS's mostly built, and untouchable plans for 3 robo as long as the threat and the sea state are just so cruisers, don't we? Not to mention a flag officer for just about every ship. And a positive military attitude. So we can make war, when we wage it, be tidy, efficient, safe, and inexpensive. And based in correct philosophical doctrine.
What more do we need?
WRT to Deepwater Coasties (something odd there, never mind)
"speed up replacement(s)and use the … ships, completed earlier than planned, for anti-piracy".
Then MOBILIZE multiple shipyards and build more, and faster, then take what the yards have learned and build more, and faster still.
Each just like the last one.
Then after you get piracy under control and rapidly becoming extinguished, make a plan to FRAM those little cans. Voila,
a (sort of, better, anyway) balanced fleet in being. With a whole lot of little cans that make white water and black smoke and spit death in all directions out to long range (post FRAM with great sensors, good comms/connectivity, and multiple big(ger) guns, missiles and torpedoes.
Be still my beating heart.
And all we gotta due is SELL IT.
"this mess will be over in short order"
Regretfully, I must disagree. I would be delighted to be wrong.
Or anyway that's how it looks through my trifocals from my rocking chair.
Make that "all we gotta do" vice "all we gotta due"
Brain to typing fingers homonym cross-connect malfunction.
Thanks for the summation re: other efforts, defense spending, re-equipment, and loss of auxiliary vessels. I will cut and paste it straight into the upcoming QDR! 🙂
We must be picking up each others' sideband, because I used "Dane-Geld" to describe the piracy issue a couple of days ago.
Funny how well old Rudyard nailed down the basics a hundred years ago.
Have you read "Captains Courageous"? Just a grand book.
Hayball: Agreed!
Ol' RK called a LOT of things spot-on. I read "Captains" as a youth and should read again. On my ever-growing list. I usually have three going at any one time. "Kim" is RK's entry in that group presently.
And particularly a propo for this venue:
"If you can bear to hear the truths you've spoken,
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,"
Someone (not me!) needs to do an article on Kipling and how he resonates with all the people who have followed the profession of arms. One of my favorite authors, John Ringo, writes a lot of military sci-fi, and there's Kipples sprinkled all through his writing. And here we have two war horses talking Kipling; imagine that!
Byron, I'd love to do so if USNI would consider publishing. RK is one of my very favorites, and his story is enthralling. His works are brilliantly done in capturing the colonial British Army.
What say, Admin? Were I to plunge into such missive, would you find a place for it?
Interesting thoughts about logistics.
One could argue that the more COTS used, especially equipment found around oil field areas – diesel engines, etc, the less strain on developing a special s logistics train…
Which get me back to my original point…
sooner with a whole lot of less capable is better than late with ships we don't have yet.
I think the consensus is that we will need both. A "field expedient" will be required to tide us over until we produce platforms that perform these missions and tasks well and efficiently.
D. E. Reddick
Logistical basing might best be achieved on the Yemeni Island of Socotra, which is located off the Somali coastline from the Horn of Africa and the Gulf of Aden.
It has an airport and several anchorages. It would be a start. It is certainly closer to the apparent areas of operational activity than Djibouti.
D. E. Reddick
the business of goosing the shipyards to build a bunch of the modern coasties is a pretty good idea.
one of the simpler facts is that once you have the torch set up then when the first plate is burned then its pretty quick to burn six or seven more. then mark those plates and store them for the next six or seven hulls.
ablolutely it takes someone on the ball to store the stuff and retrieve it but the gain in speed of manufacture and assembly is terriffic.
there is one thing.
someone has got to stand fast against the idiots that want to modify the design in mid gallop because it just doesn't look right or some black box salesman has a neat new gadget that they guys really want. get it right the first time and don't waste a lot of time and money diddling around refining the design.
for the brass, there will be some flaws in a solidified design, the original design fletchers had a terriffic vibration problem that disappeared with the long hulls and the different propellors, stuff lke that. lots of that kind of thing can be fixed with better design and if it comes from propellors or rudders or things like that then modified parts can be applied after commissioning.
you guys of anybody should know about "flight mods".
D.E. Reddick:
RE: Socatra – The Yemeni government had to negotiate with UNESCO to build the first two roads because it is a world heritage ecology preservation site (not sure of the exact designation)and the cash economy is eco-tourism.
The Brits had an airfield in WWII, which, presumably, is the airport. Wreck diving opportunities offshore.
If I had a call to make I would keep looking. Political complications. Potential domestic USA political complications.
Looked awfully good at first glance though.
Got my vote. I'm posted in the archives of the recent past saying the same.
"stand fast against…that want to modify the design in mid gallop.."
Yep, that's why I say tell them to go plan the FRAM at the 10 year mark. Keep itchy fingers off the baseline and then use the lessons learned to get some reasonably multipurpose little cans for about 35 years. They do come in handy. Great training, wonderful places to cut your teeth as a JO or junior PO.
Just make sure there is an air search radar, UNREP capablity and a day/night land, fuel ,and rearm capable cert for the helo deck on any frigate. The corvette should have UNREP and day/night VERTREP and emerg fuel the helo certs.
Refuel and resupply at sea is utterly critical. The "stormy winds" (Typhoon, etc.) class gunboats that the Navy has loaned/given to the Coast Guard can't take on fuel alongside, so you are back to 1925 drag the bouyed hose behing the oiler in calm seas at slow speed drill. Huge and pointless loss of operational flexibility due to failure of imagination.
"Perfect is the enemy of good enough, on time." attributed to ADM Sergei Gorshkov, Soviet Navy.
T. S. Eliot put out "A Choice of Kipling's Verse Made by T.
Eliot", so URR, et al, and I aren't the only ones who like their Kipling. The selection is way cool, if you can find it.
"The Secret of the Machines" speaks to every one who ever served in the 20th or current century, Submariners particularly, but all other MM's, BM's, EM's and ET's as well, for sure:
…"But remember please, the Law by which we live,
We are not built to comprehend a lie,
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive.
If you make a slip in handling us, you die…"
I love "McAndrew's Hymn". Plus now you know who first wrote of the Scots engineer that Roddenberry lifted for Star Trek.
And everyone in the profession of arms should know:
"The young recruit is silly-'e thinks of suicide.
'e's lost 'is gutter-devil; e' hasn't got 'is pride,
But day by day they kicks 'im, which 'elps 'im on a bit…(all the way to)
… but the backbone of the Army* is the Non-commissioned Man,
Keep away from dirtiness – keep away from mess,
Don't get into doin' things rather-more-or-less!.. "
(* And most particularly the USN, as well, Grasshopper)
Been there, lived that. URR too, I'll wager.
Chuck Hill
"Hayball Says:
So Chuck, given that you need a harbor, piers, POL facilities, a secure connecting road, a substantial airport and a defensible perimeter around the whole shebang, all within reach of the battlespace (convoy route & pirate bases), what does google maps come up with along this X000 miles of God forsaken wilderness coastline and adjoining archipelago?
Just asking. No harm in that, right?"
First I think that the proper response is to put Marines on the ships is the first order of business, but if we wanted to organize a convoy system and do it with minimal resources, then we should talk to the Seychelles about basing patrol boats there, convoying between Djibouti and the Seychelles. We have the Cyclone class PC, Coast Guard 110s, and when they become available the new Sentinal class Fast Responce Cutters (FRC). The Europeans and Indians have a slew of vessels of this type.
The Seychelles has already asked India for help. The population is predominately French Criole and Catholic so there should be minimal cultural conflict.
Escort groups start with their respective convoys from Djibouti and the Seychelles, they meet in the middle, exchange convoys and return with their charges to base. If the patrol boats's legs won't make it to the Mid-Ocean Meeting Point, then have frigates cover the middle of the transit.
Chuck Hill:
Fair enough. Other nominations would make for more interesting discussion, but let's start with this one.
In broad and general terms I agree. CDR Salamander makes some salient points at his blog this morning (20 April).
One key point is that we provide convoys for US Flag shippiing. I do not agree we are under any obligation to provide a free utility for every ship in the world.
The Devil (as usual) will be in the details.
Naval Armed Guard Dets are my preference for ship security. The Marines are busy. MA's with a few GM's for weapons maintenence should do fine.
There already is a supply of experienced senior Petty Officers and an existing organization which is routinely used to provide Dets for MSC vessels when their route makes it appropriate.
As I have stated before, in my opinion the Gurkas are as good as it gets as far as mercenaries go. Remember it takes an act of Congress to get one more US Navy sailor, so ship security forces in the (commercial ship) convoy may wind up being mercs.
Patrol boats without UNREP capability, especially refueling at sea, may prove troublesome and of marginal utility in practice.
Anything smaller than 150′ may well not have adequate seakeeping/endurance to keep up with a series of 14 knot convoys in the open sea. They may start out fine, the trick is keeping them on the line.
Don't forget a SIMA or a really capable Tender, because Patrol Boats on convoy duty will accumlate wear and damage at a far higher rate than coastal patrol and response duty. Boxer handlled some challenges which cropped up in her high speed transit to the scene last week, and she's a big ship with a big engineering dept.
Patrol Boats inherently have less depth on the bench.
The mothball fleet may be an option to obtain a Tender, if you staff it up and fund it so it can bootstrap its own material condition. You have to reserve some capability for the tender to repair itself; otherwise the shoemaker may wind up the worst shod man in town.
Tenders are easier, diplomatically, because they can keep a lower profile than a a few acres of enclosed waterfront real estate with guards, perimeters, signs, industrial work, and utilities. It's best to keep the lightest possible footprint.
Security on the water side of the patrol boat piers should be substantial, and well integrated with the local forces. It's their harbor.
How well you negotiate the Status of Forces Agreement, and a good working relationship with local security and military will be critical to succcess. Language training for the logistic base's people pays big dividends, especially security, port services and supply's expediting and pier operations folks.
Boats aren't the answer, just a stopgap. But they can help until enough ships are ready. Use the time well to prepare the base.
Throw away capability in haste, regret at leisure, at great expense. Not that the "Political Masters" ever want to hear that.
"URR too, I'll wager." Have indeed, Mr Hayball. The 'Eathen, a favorite.
I am not sure with a 280-odd ship Navy, there is a convoy system that can be sustained for any length (180+ days) against a concerted effort on the part of the bad guys. Such activity is manpower and platform-intensive. The two very things we are short of.
Chuck Hill
I also think a Naval Armed Guard is the most cost effective immediate answer, be it Marines, Navy or Coast Guard, but if we wanted to set up a convoy system, this is where the "thousand ship navy" comes in. In addtion to the NATO countries,Egypt, South Africa, Japan, and India, even the Chinese and Rusians, might offer to help.
There would be a lot of things to work out, but it could work. The World War II convoy system involved lots of different navies and it worked. Ship riders from the Somali government could be helpful so that we could seize vessels under their authority. The Somali ship riders could ultimately morph into a Somali Coast Guard.
We have to think about the end game. What are we working toward, and how will be get from here to there. Hopefully this will not become just one more of many commitments that drags on with no end in sight. So punish the pirates, but also help the Somali's regain control of their fisheries resouce so that they can feed themselves.
And yes this should not be exclusively our responsibility.
Re your answer to Chuck, "The Choir says: AMEN."
or turning to RK again, check "The Dutch in the Medway" (1164 -72)
"The monies that should feed us
You spend on your delight.
How can you then have sailor-men
To aid you in your fight?"
Or the next one over the horizon.
Chuck Hill:
Protecting US flag merchant shipping from pirates is a routine duty of the US Navy. Maintaining a navy that can do that and the other routine tasks of a navy is a Constitutional duty of the Congress. They need to repair decay and decline, now.
Let other nations protect their shipping, and, should they so choose, cooperate with us when it is to our mutual advantage.
The "1000 Ship Navy" in my opinion, does not and never will exist.
As we see before our eyes off east Africa.
Let flags of convenience be assisted and protected, at our convenience. Let the shipowners who fly them be charged a fee for service, a cost plus fee.
The Somoli pirate situation can be corrected, in 10 or 15 years.
Somolia's situation? 10 or 15 decades.
And count us OUT. Leave Tar Babies for Brer Fox and Brer Bear.
MR. Hayball:
not being able to refuel at sea is inexcusable.
they don't need the six inch quick close fitting that does 4000gpm and doesn't leak more than three quarts during a quick disconnect. they can do with the same gear the small boys use to quick fuel the helicopters.
its the same stuff just ~three inches instead of six.
what ever happened to the guys that saw a need, went over to the srf, sima, tender, yard, found somebody and did something.
that technique actually works. (look up just how subroc was originally built).
i kind of wondered when those little boats/ships would come up.
actually the choir does not sing until several things happen.
first, you sir, tap the podium twice with your baton, then point it at the fat lady. finally with a broad full extension of the right arm in a sweeping motion you start the song. the first three words being halilulia, halilulia, HAAALIIIILUUULIA.
nuff said.
Chuck Hill
I seem to remember refueling a patrol boat from a Hamilton class cutter while underway. The HIFR (helicopter in flight refueling) rig should work.
I think the patrol boat was towed on a mooring line through a forward chock. A little rudder kept the patrol boat from contacting the side.
Chuck Hill
To clearify (if I remember correctly) it was like the patrol boat was riding a sea painter like a ship's boat.
Question: at what sea state does that mooring line as a sea painter trick (which sounds pretty clever, I must admit) become no longer an option? Got lucky in a synthetic line snap back deal once, it left me kind of paranoid about that sort of thing.
An adequate solution, now, beats a perfect one, much later.
Just make sure a marginal stop gap doesn't become the final answer.
"What happened to the guys that saw a need, went over to the sima, etc, etc." About 20 years of promoting the perfect fitrep file and combing the other files for flaws to find nominees to meet the quota for making the Navy "right sized".
You know, the troublesome LT's with dirty hands, scuffed boondockers and wrinkled greasy khakis, who push the boss for more help (petty officers, optar, tools, priority, top cover) to do the job right. The ones who expect their boss to stick up for them like they stick up for their troops. The ones who work an eighty hour week and then go home to their family, ignoring the wardroom with wives command performances. The ones who gulp down their meal, don't make small talk, don't PT, and get back to work so they make their daughter's piano recital or their son's baseball league. The ones whose wives don't say 10 words to the Captain's wife in a year, and are the La Maze coach for three 17 year old fireman's wives in the same period, keeping it to themselves. Those guys. The pain in the ass guys.
Because we need to cut end strength and we only have room for the "best fitted". Not characters who swim upstream too much.
Not that some of the "best fitted" aren't really superstars.
Or that diamonds in the rough don't need polishing. Just that hard times are hard on the rough cut ones, who tend to be the best cumshaw artists.
Mr Hayball was my dad. I'm just Hayball. No offense meant and none taken. Thanks.
I'll try keep in closer compliance with COMNAVCHOIRRULE's SOP.
Thanks for the tip.
I lifted this from another blog which was mostly a polemic, but this piece lays out the size of the area, which will help illustrate why I maintain convoy with blue water escorts is the only realistic long term shipping protection option. I realize a lot of us know this quite well, but I get the impression some quite understand the distances involved.
>> First though, let me orient you to familiarize you with the
>> "terrain."
>> In Africa from Djibouti at the southern end of the Red Sea
>> eastward through the Gulf of Aden to round Cape Guardafui at
>> the easternmost tip of Africa (also known as "The Horn
>> of Africa") is about a 600 nm transit before you stand
>> out into the Indian Ocean. That transit is comparable in
>> distance to that from the mouth of the Mississippi at New
>> Orleans to the tip of Florida at Key West– except that 600
>> nm over there is infested with Somalia pirates.
>> Ships turning southward at the Horn of Africa transit the
>> SLOC (Sea Lane of Commerce) along the east coast of Somalia
>> because of the prevailing southerly currents there.
>> It's about 1,500 nm on to Mombassa, which is just south
>> of the equator in Kenya. Comparably, that's about the
>> transit distance from Portland Maine down the east coast of
>> the US to Miami Florida. In other words, the ocean area
>> being patrolled by our naval forces off the coast of Somalia
>> is comparable to that in the Gulf of Mexico from the
>> Mississippi River east to Miami then up the eastern seaboard
>> to Maine.
>> Unquote.
Hope it helps.
Why not have a Predator on the sea concept? An unmanned boat that can hunt for weeks at a time. Would cost about $5 million and dozens could be ready in a year. Base them out of a mothership or a nearby friendly port. 100 of them would be cheaper then a single LCS with Helicopter and crew…


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Several Oklahoma State football players received impermissible benefits during a period spanning from 2001 to as recently as 2011, earning pay-for-play inducements via assistant coaches, boosters and "no-show and sham jobs," according to a story released Tuesday by Sports Illustrated.
RELATED: 5-part investigative series on OSU announced
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Some players earned $2,000 annually, per the report, and "a few stars" upwards of $25,000. Players would receive money in one of three ways, according to SI:
— Via an assistant coach, typically former OSU assistant coach Joe DeForest, who coached the Cowboys during the entire span from 2001-11. The SI story also implicates former running backs coach Larry Porter for giving one student-athlete "a couple hundred bucks" to help cover room-and-board costs. Former defensive tackle Brad Girtman said DeForest gave him a debit card with $5,000 on it when he arrived on campus in 2003. Both DeForest, currently an assistant at West Virginia, and Porter, now at Texas, have said the SI allegations are untrue.
— Via boosters, who would deliver the money in several different ways, per SI: OSU players would find money in their per-diem envelope, which typically holds $15 for meals; in their lockers the day after a game; or even in a new pair of socks, said former defensive back Thomas Wright. The article does state that prominent OSU booster T. Boone Pickens was not mentioned in any improprieties.
PREVIOUSLY: Oklahoma State 'very concerned' with allegations
— Via fake jobs set up by boosters, wealthy alumni and even an assistant coach like DeForest. Former running back Seymour Shaw said of DeForest: "We'd go over to the house, and [cornerback Darrent Williams] would fake like he's starting up a lawn mower… so people could see him. (Then he'd] cut it off. [He'd] start up a Weed Eater. Cut it off. [For that he'd get] $400, $500, $600." DeForest said he compensated players "fair market value" for their work, per SI.
The breadth of time covered among the SI allegations spans the entire tenure of then-OSU coach Les Miles, now at LSU, as well as current OSU coach Mike Gundy, Miles' former offensive coordinator and eventual replacement following the 2004 season.
LES MILES: 'Oklahoma State never a place where you needed to cheat'
SI writes of Miles taking "a more hospitable approach" to boosters when compared to his predecessor, Bob Simmons. Boosters were commonly seen in OSU's locker room after big wins under Miles, including a victory against No. 4 Oklahoma in 2001. After that game, boosters walked through the room and "slipped cash" into players' hands. Said former safety Fath' Carter, "We are talking about $500 handshakes." SI writes of boosters becoming so pervasive that they would connect with players before new recruits arrived on campus.
The story, co-authored by SI senior writers George Dohrmann and Thayer Evans, is the first in a five-part series, called "The Dirty Game," set to be issued by the magazine during the next week.
Another four installments will be launched on all of SI's platforms during the next week. According to a preview released Monday, the ongoing series will tackle "widespread academic misconduct," drug use and a hostess program that violated NCAA recruiting rules. The fifth chapter in the series, "The Fallout," chronicles how several OSU football players were "cast aside" when they were deemed "no longer useful to the football program."
In addressing the media Monday, Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder said he was "very concerned" about the magazine's allegations. Holder was named the university's athletic director in September 2005, after Miles had left for LSU.
"As the athletic director at Oklahoma State and an alumnus of Oklahoma State University, I don't want to believe that it's true," Holder said, via the Tulsa World. "We take this personally. We're all committed to playing by the rules and doing things the right way around here, and for people to say that's not what's happening is very disturbing."
Holder said Monday he reached out to each Big 12 athletic director to apologize. He clarified the context of the apology Tuesday, providing the following statement:
"In Monday's news conference, I apologized to our fans and mentioned phone calls I had made to other Big 12 athletic directors prior to the release of the first article from Sports Illustrated. To clarify, my apology was in regards to the negative publicity that was coming our way. My apology was in no way an admission of wrong doing by OSU Athletics."
Gundy spoke Monday about the SI story during his weekly press conference breaking down the Cowboys' next opponent.
"I'll be real honest with you. I know the part that may have involved me. I'm not sure we know it all yet. But we've had tremendous support from administration, from the people behind the scenes who have looked at this and researched it," Gundy said. "I'm going to guess that once we get all the information and we see what's out there, then our administration and the people inside will look at it and we'll see where we made mistakes and we'll try to make ourselves better and we'll correct it and then we'll move forward. And I would hope that there will be some of it that we look at and say I'm not sure one way or the other based on what's out there."
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin, another prominent alumnus of the school, said Tuesday that she found the allegations "disturbing and disappointing" and that she is confident the school's administration will investigate the charges thoroughly.
Paul Myerberg, a national college football writer for USA TODAY Sports, is on Twitter @PaulMyerberg.


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Charles by Charles David Pact Glitter Pump
Sorry, this item is sold out!
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Outshine the competition in the Charles by Charles David Pact. This sparkly pump is chic and perfect for any special occasion.
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By: Jaysparkling
Location: Mobile Alabama
December 15, 2013
"Nice shoe love it.. got to many complements very comfortable..."
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Location: Florida
July 20, 2013
weirdly proportioned...
"I ordered these shoes in both the silver and black/dark gray. My biggest complaint is that they're VERY narrow around the widest part of the foot, but not anywhere else. It's a strangely proportioned design. I've never had to buy wide shoes and have always been told I have narrow feet, so was definitely not expecting them to be SO narrow - to the point one wear actually caused blisters and hurt. The lighter "silver" ones are actually a much lighter color than I anticipated and almost look white in some lights. I came pretty close to returning them. The darker gray/black color is cute though. I said I'd recommend it, provided the buyer knows/expects the color and proportion to be as I've described."
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Conservatively Speaking
State Senator Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) represents parts of four counties: Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, and Walworth. Her Senate District 28 includes New Berlin, Franklin, Greendale, Hales Corners, Muskego, Waterford, Big Bend, the town of Vernon and parts of Greenfield, East Troy, and Mukwonago. Senator Lazich has been in the Legislature for more than a decade. She considers herself a tireless crusader for lower taxes, reduced spending and smaller government.
Wisconsin Department of Tourism's Snow Conditions Report
Here is a link to the Wisconsin Department of Tourism Wisconsin Snow Conditions Report for downhill skiing, snowmobiling, cross country skiing and snowboarding within Wisconsin's 72 counties: http://www.travelwisconsin.com/snow-conditions-report/Snowmobile#/Report
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On March 20, Critter Country Fixins opened for the lunch and dinner crowd. Owners Brad and Nina Peay are planning to soon be serving breakfast. They also are going to provide a separate dinner menu for the newly refurbished dining room.
The recently redecorated cafe sports an outdoor theme with log cabin atmosphere and plenty of pine trees and carved critters among the diners. Located at 336 West Highway 29 in Castle Dale, the hours are 11 a.m.-9 p.m., Mon.-Thurs., 11 a.m.-10 p.m., Fri.-Sat. and closed Sundays.
Coming soon to the dining room will be a dinner buffet and salad bar. The phone number is 381-5544. Brad and Nina and their staff of 12 employees welcome all to come in and give it a try.


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Skip to comments.Chinese State Media Demands US Citizens Be Disarmed
Posted on 12/19/2012 5:46:41 AM PST by combat_boots
(Breitbart) The official Chinese government news agency, Xinhua, has demanded the US immediately adopt stricter gun control measures to reduce the number of firearms the US populace is permitted to possess.
The Chinese state-controlled medias statement, titled Innocent Blood Demands No Delay for US Gun Control, is primarily focused on the Newtown tragedy in which 26 Americans were killed by a mad gunman. Twenty of the victims were young children.
SPECIAL: Do NOT let the government take our guns! Protect Your Gun Rights!
The Chinese government stated, Their blood and tears demand no delay for the U.S. gun control.
In an apparent effort to restrict information to their populace, the Chinese government wrote of a number of US mass shootings but failed to mention they were either stopped by a citizen legally carrying a firearm or otherwise only occurred in the controversial gun-free zones that critics say make prime targets for madmen.
The Chinese government states:
The past six months have seen enough shooting rampages in the United States. Just three days ago, three people were shot dead at a shopping mall in Oregon. Two weeks ago, a football player shot his girlfriend dead and then committed suicide. Five months ago, 12 people were killed and 58 wounded in a shooting spree at a midnight screening of a Batman film in Colorado.
The government went on to express a strong dislike of the National Rifle Association while also attacking the Republican Party as somehow complicit in the violence. Conversely, the article heaps praise on the Democratic Party...
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
Author should be Brandon Darby
Well if they ever come over here, I hope they dress just like the picture.
Red Dawn, eh?
They would make good targets that way...
and in return, we demand that Chinese citizens not be permitted to own knives
Apparently many here never stop to wonder why.
I cant imagine why the Chinky govt would want US citizens disarmed and start a potential civil war. They only have our best interest at heart. /s
Australia listened to the very same Chinese suggestion years ago, and guess who China plans to actually invade first?
You guessed it, the Chinese desperately need to expand and Australia positively cannot defend themselves, not even if they had 21 million M4's or M16's in a storage depot and issued one to each citizen.
Citizens of Oz need at least four weapons each, a fully auto assault rifle, a shotgun, a battle rifle such as the M14 that can also be a decent sniper rifle and a pistol.
God is listening to all your hypocrisy, ChiComz
That shooting spree was basically stopped by a person with a conceal and carry permit.
English translation: Go pound sand.
They don't want to have to deal with "a rifle behind every blade of grass".
And we should listen to the Chinese why?
I WOULD that there is a chink in the armor of Chinese understanding of American rights and freedoms. But then
the monitors would get all angry at me and probably close my account. So I won't say it.
Eff China and eff Obama!
Roger that.
The Chinese government, which forbids any recognition of the massacre and the events leading up to it, has taken special measures in the last few days to further censor acknowledgement of the protests. Chinese micro-bloggers on the popular site Sina Weibo particularly felt the effects of censorship. Dissident posts were harmonized (removed) in minutes, profile pictures could not be changed, and the candle emoticon was removed.
Exactly WHEN did the CommieChinks worry about blood, or tears either?
Exactly WHEN did the CommieChinks worry about blood, or tears either?
Why, it's almost as if they believe they have some influence over the formerly American government, doesn't it?
> Well if they ever come over here, I hope they dress just like the picture.
I'm sure it will put a lot of the limpwristed liberals in heat.
> Why, its almost as if they believe they have some influence over the formerly American government, doesnt it?
They probably do own us on paper.
"...> Why, its almost as if they believe they have some influence over the formerly American government, doesnt it?
They probably do own us on paper...."
Yep, and they don't want resistance when the come to collect.
Their boy, Baraq Hussein 0bama, is doing his best to accommodate them.
Congratulations, democrats. You wholeheartedly agree with communist china.
Yes, disarm your citizens so we can take over your country without resistance.
Have the Chinese consulate contact me via private mail here to send one of their representatives to pick up my guns.
Heads up. Post needs an appropriate graphic or 2.
Oh . . . Well . . . That settles it, then.
Come on over China Media. We'll surrender our bullets first.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.


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BioSilk Silk Therapy
- Overview
- Ingredients
- Features
- Repairs split ends
- Strengthens hair with silk proteins
- Moisturizes with vitamin B
- Adds shine and softness with botanical extracts and vitamin E
- Provides UV protection from sun damage
- Heat protection from styling tools
- Ideal for all hair types
- 12.0 fl. oz
- About the brand
BioSilk Silk Therapy is a lightweight leave-in treatment that helps moisturize and restructure your hair without heaviness. The silk proteins strengthen your hair from the inside out, vitamin B holds in moisture, and vitamin E with botanical extracts nourishes for shine and super softness. In addition to repairing, the treatment also protects your hair from future sun damage, and from the heat of your styling tools. The result is silky smooth, shiny hair.
Cyclomethicone, Dimethicone, SD Alcohol 40-B, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Ethyl Ester of Hydrolyzed Silk, Panthenol, Phenoxyethanol,Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Parfum (Fragrance). Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde, Benzyl Benzoate, Linalool, Gamma Methyl Ionone, Citronellol, Lilial, Hydroxy Citronellol, Geraniol, Eugenol
Place a dime-sized amount of Silk Therapy between your palms and rub together. Then apply evenly from your roots to your ends. You can use this treatment on wet or dry hair as often as necessary.
Created by the famed Farouk Systems (makers of CHI), BioSilk hair care products are infused with silk to moisturize and add a glossy shine to your locks. BioSilk offers flat irons, hair dryers and 7 luxurious hair care collections to help style and finish your look. So go ahead, pamper your hair, we're sure you'll fall in love with the satiny, smooth styling goodness of BioSilk.
It Work's Great (depending On Hair Conditions)I BEEN USING THIS PRODUCT SINCE 1998,I STOP USING IT FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS USE ALL KIND OF PRODUCTS AND NOTHING WORK.I HAVE DRY AND FREEZY CURLY HAIR SO I BOUGHT IT AGAIN AND IS THE BEST PRODUCT EVER USE ON MY HAIR I USE TRESEMME FLAWLESS CURLS AND CONDITIONER FOLLOW BY MY BIOSILK THERAPY AND TRESEMME HYDRATION LOTION AND IT GIVES ME THE SEXIEST BOUNCY FULL OF SHINE CURLS IM AMASED OF THE RESULTS GOT TO TRY IT IS WORTH IT!Feb 10, 2009Sexiest Curls Ever / TEXASHAIR TYPECurly Hair
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I Love This!!I am an African American girl with really fine hair. I have problems with my hair being dry and breaking off right after I finish styling it. Today, I had my dads girlfriend do my hair. She half way dried it by using a dryer with a comb attached and then applied the silk therapy to my hair. She flat ironed it and I can say, I HAVE NEVER had my hair feel this amazing ever!!! Its very silky, easy to run my hair through, not breaking off, and its very very shiny. I love it and I recommend it to anyone!Jan 18, 2009Emerald H. / Dinwiddie, VA
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Awesome Product!!!I have been using Biosilk for years now, and it is the best out there. Its light and doesnt leave your hair greasy. I use a dab before I flatiron my hair to protect it, and I also use a dab after i flatiron, and it smoothes my hair and it looks silky and beautiful!! The small bottle has lasted a year. A little really goes a long way. This product is well worth the money!!Jan 6, 2009Randie / Tulsa, OK
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Good ProductThis works well. I dont apply it to my roots because it weighs it down too much.Just be sure to shake the bottle thoroughly or itll make your hair dry. And only use a small amount or itll make your hair greasy.Nov 13, 2008Cristina / Texas
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Amazing For A Girl With A FroI am african-american and dont have a relaxer. This means after I wash my hair, i get an afro. my cousin did my hair and told me to use this. OMG this is like my secret weapon! Its just so ridiculously amazing you just have to try it!Plus, after my hair is straightened, its kinda strawlike, but this makes it so soft and smooth!Jul 28, 2008LisaHAIR TYPEAfrican American
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Multi Purpose - Great For TravelI have used this product for years, and find it to be the best all around product out there, especially for travel. I carry this as styling product - I have very dry frizzy hair which gets worse in the heat of the caribbean and from the swimming in the ocean and pool so at night after the day in the sun, I use this on just washed & conditioned hair, and it relaxes the frizz, and defines the curls a bit more, while adding extra conditioning treatment which is greatly needed - but I admit dont apply right to the roots as the ends are dry and the roots greasy. Mostly to the ends, and generally scrunch in the rest. Unlike other products it doesnt weigh my hair down or make it look greasy. BUT that is because you dont need a lot of the product. Just a tiny dab in the palm of your hands - rub them together and then spread through your hair. Also use it on my body, just after showering. No need to pack extra lotions, this stuff works great on skin. The best is that it is light, and not sticky on the body which I hate on a caribbean holiday. Yes it is a little pricey - but a little goes a very long way. Remeber, tiny bit on the hands, rub lightly together and apply.You can also find it in smaller containers, perfect for a travel companion. I also think that it warded off mosquitos quite a bit (my hubby got bit while I didnt).....but I havent heard anyone else mention, and havent paid enough attention as only started to notice on this last holiday.Jul 4, 2008Mbny / New York
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I Hated It! It Has Alcohol In It! Dont Be DecievedI am a african american girl and I try to find products that will work when I straighten my 4a afro/kinky hair with my sedu flat iron yet when a sample of this horrid product came with my sedu flat iron i decided to put it on my slghtly damp hair and wow it not only made my hair instantly dry feeling when i put this gel/serum consistency of a product on, but when i flat ironed my hair it left white flakes because of the alcohol content! Please dont be decieved, i have dry hair and this made my hair feel dry and crispy like ive never felt! And i can honestly say that if you look at the ingregient list the first ingredient is alcohol... dont buy and dont get attached to the HYPEJun 28, 2008Linda / Katy Texas
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Love This ProductI have used biosilk for years now...If I dont i cant get a comb through my hair. I color my hair and it is over processed so the biosilk is awsome. It is great to use wet and dry to smooth out fly aways. Biosilk is not sticky like alot of other product if you dont wash it off your hands you dont even notice, someties I leave it on because it smells so good.Jun 13, 2008Courtney
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It Is The Best Stuff Ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS STUFF WORKS!!!!!!!Jun 8, 2008Ali Orph
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Silky Smooth Hair With No FrizzI have tried a lot of products to fight frizz, but this is by far the best. Im African American and my hair is natural. I live in Chicago, which has awful humidity. Ive tried anti-frizz hair sprays, which only made my hair frizz even more. I learned from someone that since my hair retained moisture, an anti-frizz hair spray was adding moisture to moisture. Then, I visited a stylist in St. Louis who used Silk Therapy. I attended a baseketball game in a hot, humid gym. Amazingly, my hair continued to have movement, it didnt fall, and it didnt frizz!!!!! If you want to invest in the best, this product is well worth the price. Be certain not to use too much. A little goes a long way.May 19, 2008Gena Xan / Chicago
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The Lightning Thief movie is coming out February 12, 2010. Of course we are all super-excited, but the big question for fans of the book is: Will it be a lot different than the book?
Here are 3 different answers from 3 key people who are very close to the book and the movie. . .
Brandon T. Jackson, the actor who plays Grover, has this to say:
"Of course you can go into more detail, but it's already two and a half hours. And it's not long in a bad way but there's only so much you can put in it. I think that they got all the major points of the story. That's what makes it really cool. Chris [Columbus] is such a great director because he had to do it in a way where it really is entertaining and is also — you can't take everything from the book. You'll get some flak from a lot of the kids who will say, "I didn't expect Grover to look like this." "I didn't expect Alexander to look like this." But when you take it for the entertainment value I think the movie comes out to be really really cool from what I saw. It sticks pretty close to the book with the characters and everything the way they are. It balances out well for entertainment value for people who haven't read the book, and for people who have read the book you can go back and draw your own conclusions and have your own magical experiences."
Logan Lerman, the actor who plays Percy, also weighs in:
"With portraying Percy I tried to keep it — I didn't want to change that that much. Except for the fact that I'm a little bit older than the written character. But the truth is we changed a lot of the book. We changed a lot of things around to make the movie work because you have to make things a little bit different so it can be its own film and work on screen. We changed a lot of the things though. But I'm pretty sure that fans of the book will be able to appreciate Rick's writing, and will still accept this as a different medium from the book that adds a whole different take on the book from another person's eyes, from Chris Columbus' vision and even makes it more grand, even more unique. It's really cool."
And finally, Rick Riordan, the author himself offers his opinion of the movie on his blog:
"Will the movie be exactly like the book? Well to start with, I have never seen a movie that was exactly like the book it came from, so I think it's safe to say no. Movies are a totally different medium. What you'll be seeing is not The Lightning Thief book copied page for page onto the screen. What you'll be seeing is Chris Columbus' interpretation of The Lightning Thief story. . . Let the movie be the movie, and the books be the books, and try to enjoy the story without getting too worked up about any differences."
So there you have it. What do you think? Will the movie be as good as the book? Let me know what you think in the Comments.
— Sonja, STACKS Staffer
Brandon T. Jackson and Logan Lerman interviews by Marie Morreale
UPDATE January 29, 2010: Check it out! We've got more Lightning Thief cast interviews!


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Current Highlights on Broadway
Find a show or venue
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Your independent guide to the best shows in New York
76 Main Street, Westhampton Beach, NY 11978
22 Jun 2013
The stand-up comic skewers celebrity culture while dishing dirt on Britney Spears, Whitney Houston, Anna Nicole Smith, Little Richard and Sharon Stone.
New York Post
Take a look here to see if Kathy Griffin is showing somewhere nearby
Kathy Griffin is on tour and hits the Westhampton Beach Performing Arts Centerin Westhampton Beach, NY, showing for one date only on 22 Jun 2013!
Multiple HBO and Bravo specials weren't enough! Catch double Emmy award-winning Kathy Griffin live in her true element. She has more stories, more dish, more of what she shouldn't say but you know you want to hear. Come with an open mind and laugh until you puke... just a little.
Opening night: 22 June 2013
Closing night: 22 June 2013
6 reviews, average rating: (2.1 Stars)
Linda: "Super Funny And Up To Date Material"
I love Kathy! I've seen her 5 times and I plan to see her here in Atlanta.... more
Sean: "LAUGHED SO HARD IT STILL HURTS!!!"
Has to rank in the top 2 or 3 best comedy shows I have EVER seen, and I've ... more
Oopshoops: "That Was One Of The Worst Shows I've Ever Attended."
The opening video montage was funny/cute. Started out chukle-worthy. But al... more
Please note: The term Westhampton Beach Performing Arts Center and/or Kathy Griffin as well as all associated graphics, logos, and/or other tradermarks, tradenames or copyrights are the property of the Westhampton Beach Performing Arts Center and/or Kathy Griffin and are used herein for factual descriptive purposes only. We are in no way associated with or authorized by the Westhampton Beach Performing Arts Center and/or Kathy Griffin and neither that entity nor any of its affiliates have licensed or endorsed us to sell tickets, goods and or services in conjunction with their events.


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Skch+3 Studded Wedge Sneaker
Sorry, this item is sold out!
Looks like you've got more shoe shopping to do - have fun!
Looks like you've got more shoe shopping to do - have fun!
Item # 275592
Create a sporty chic look with this high-top wedge from Skch+3 by Skechers. These fun-loving lace-up wedge sneakers are sure to shake things up.
- Suede and canvas upper
- Stud accents
- Padded collar and tongue
- Velcro instep straps
- 2½" covered wedge
- Synthetic sole
- Imported
By: DDHulick
Location: Erie, PA
October 17, 2013
These are sharp!
"These only feel a bit short but it could be because of the wedge (heel) and your foot slides forward. Skechers always fit me to a T. They'll get more comfortable after 'broken-in', I'm sure! They are very comfortable and look GREAT!"
By: MusicalGenius
Location: Canada
October 09, 2013
Best Sneaker Purchase
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By: ekatz
Location: culver city
October 02, 2013
these shoes rock!!
"Love them! Super Comfy, super cute!! Love the studs"
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Location: New Orleans, LA.
February 26, 2013
Cutetest Sneaks Ever!
"They are cute and comfy. I can walk in them all day and they look really good with skinny jeans. I've recieved lots of compliments about these shoes."
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text:
Mid-century modern kids furniture, our inspiration, is defined by its sleek and clean lines and design that can easily be incorporated with its surroundings. It is minimal in design and also multi-functional, meaning parts can be interchanged and the furniture can be assembled to fit your needs. The clean lines of our design allow our contemporary kids furniture to be easily integrated into any home, no matter what your style is. Our functional and easy to store kids furniture is perfect for the small spaces you share with your kids. The minimalism incorporated into our furniture adds a bold design element to any room without looking out of place or over powering. Our minimal and modern design creates a stylish piece of furniture you won't mind leaving out while your friends are over.
Our design aesthetic is defined by our clean yet exciting lines and minimalism. No part of our modern kids furniture is unnecessary or redundant. Our lines in the furniture reflect those used in mid-century furniture and fit the natural flow of the design. Our minimal design helps to keep our furniture bold without being overbearing, similar to the design of mid-century modern furniture.
In addition to our modern mid-century design we focus on an authentic craftsman era design. Our contemporary kids furniture fits together with natural joints, just like craftsman era furniture. Our furniture hides nothing, our joints are visible. You see how the product fits together and that it fits together well to create a sturdy and reliable product.
Our modern kids furniture is extremely functional and integrates perfectly not only into your home but into your lifestyle. Part of the inspiration for our kids furniture comes from Legos. They are fun, creative, and fit together almost like a puzzle—just like our modern kids furniture. The ease of assembly and dis-assembly for our furniture makes it easy to create more space when you need. If you move around a lot our furniture can always move with you.


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Home Decorators Collection no longer offers custom blinds and shades, but we know a great place to get them!
At our partner's site, homedepot.com, you'll find a wide selection of all the styles you're looking for and guaranteed low prices.
With free shipping on all blinds plus free samples of custom items, The Home Depot® makes it easy to shop for custom blinds and shades.


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Style # 209862
Where classic meets edgy. This patent leather pump features a line of pyramid studs down the heel, a square peep toe cut and chic hidden platform. Try it with a graphic or embellished cocktail dress to give it a subtle punch of dark glamour.
- Leather upper, manmade sole
- Heel height: 5.5" (14 cm)
- Platform: 1.5" (4 cm)
- Imported
Rated 4.5 out of 5�by 2 reviewers.
Rated 5 out of 5�by FloridaGirl Comfortable! These shoes are stylish yet comfortable. I wore them one night with a bandage dress and another night with Bebe jeans on a music cruise. I walked around with them a few nights in a row on a music cruise while hanging with friends and watching concerts. They are extremely comfortable. I normally take a 7.5, but since they don't have half sizes I purchased the 8's and they were fine! I highly recommend them. March 22, 2013
Rated 4 out of 5�by Lexia Awesome with the Stripe Leggings I bought these when I bought the black and white stripe leggings. They look fantastic. The detail down the back of the heel is especially pretty. Easy to walk in and don't hurt my feet. Downside - not true to size. Had to get a six - I wear a seven. March 9, 2013
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For your convenience, I'm also adding my usual printable recipe link below.
Thursday, December 16, 2010
Find Me Here: Spinach & Cheese Stuffed Focaccia & The Radio
For your convenience, I'm also adding my usual printable recipe link below.
7 comments:
- Chow and Chatter said...
can't wait to have you on the show :-) hugs Rebecca
- December 16, 2010 at 9:29 PM
- ravienomnoms said...
Wow, that looks fantastic!
- December 17, 2010 at 10:45 AM
- baking.serendipity said...
This focaccia looks delicious! I love the addition of spinach :)
- December 17, 2010 at 4:42 PM
- sara @ CaffeIna said...
That's cool! Lots of great news and good food! I saw you @What's for dinner. I just did not have time to catch up will all the commenting this week.
- December 18, 2010 at 7:12 PM
- Sandra said...
Great recipe and good news. Congratulations.
- December 18, 2010 at 8:39 PM
- dana said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- December 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM
- Kita said...
Oh this is a combo I could love. Focaccia and spinach mmm.
- December 21, 2010 at 1:14 PM
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