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Debates of June 23rd, 2011
House of Commons Hansard #14 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was post.
- Question Period
- Commissioner of Lobbying
- Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
- Yukon Land Claims and Self-Government Agreements
- Access to Information Act
- Income Tax Act
- Breast Implant Registry Act
- Criminal Code
- Food and Drugs Act
- Parliament of Canada Act
- Excise Tax Act
- Statistics Act
- National Hunting, Trapping and Fishing Heritage Day Act
- Holidays Act
- Canadian Human Rights Act
- Criminal Code
- Canada Post-Secondary Education Act
- Petitions
- Questions on the Order Paper
- Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services Legislation
- Women of Excellence Awards
- Food Security and Sovereignty
- William Teleske
- Special Olympics World Summer Games
- Lethbridge
- Ragweed
- Prince Albert
- Anniversary of Ukrainian Settlement
- Quebec National Holiday
- Camp Nathan Smith
- Riding of Trois-Rivières
- Violence Against Women
- Air India
- The Budget
- Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day
- The Budget
- Canada Post
- Afghanistan
- Canada Post
- The Senate
- Asbestos
- Household Debt
- Poverty
- Persons with Disabilities
- Asbestos
- G8 Summit
- Air India Flight 182
- Citizenship and Immigration
- Libya
- Citizenship and Immigration
- Afghanistan
- Disaster Assistance
- Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day
- Rail Transportation
- Search and Rescue
- Canada Post
- Windsor-Detroit Border Crossing
- Asbestos
- Presence in Gallery
- Points of Order
- Business of the House
- Points of Order
- Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services Legislation
- Points of Order
- Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services Legislation
- Message from the Senate
- Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services Legislation
- An Act Respecting Queen's University at Kingston
- Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services Legislation
- Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
8:50 p.m.
Ralph Goodale Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, in light of the polarized ideological barbs that have gone back and forth between the government and the official opposition in the last few minutes, I wonder if the minister could tell us what in fact has been accomplished by that type of exchange. The postal system is still dysfunctional, the workers are still out of work, the small businesses across this country that depend on Canada Post are still without service. Why can the minister not adopt a more constructive approach?
Will the minister entertain specific constructive amendments to her legislation to try to improve that legislation and actually get this problem solved rather than have ideological polarization on the floor of the House of Commons? What good does that do?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
8:50 p.m.
Lisa Raitt Halton, ON
Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member because obviously what he is indicating is that the Liberal Party will gladly support the bill and we can count on its full support for quick passage of the bill.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
8:50 p.m.
Jack Layton Leader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, I have to say that we start this debate on a bit of a sad note. We have just heard the Minister of Labour say, in thinking about the situation before us, that there are 45,000 postal workers, though I believe there are more than that but I will use the number she used, and there are 33 million Canadians. In other words, she is dividing the people who provide the mail to us from the rest of Canadians.
First, I find it sad that the Minister of Labour would see the world that way and, second, that we would be approaching this issue on such a divisive basis. I have said in the past, and I was hoping things might have been different, that it is a government that preys on the concept of dividing Canadians, one from the other. Unfortunately, we are starting off in that frame of mind.
I do not intend to use that approach. In fact, when I think about postal workers, the first image that comes to my mind is the postal delivery fellow who comes to my home. His name is Gary and he provides mail service to my house. At my house people are normally home during the day, so it is my 85-year-old stepmother who receives the mail. Like a lot of senior citizens and Canadians, a relationship develops between the person who delivers the mail and families. It becomes quite a personal thing.
When families celebrate the important seasons and everyone wishes each other well, it is one of those cases where the services that government provides comes right up against the public in a particularly intimate and important way. I think we all want to start this debate by realizing that we need to appreciate the work of those who work in the public service.
Second of all, I want to say that we are here to achieve a positive outcome. We are going to propose amendments to this legislation. I want to tell thePrime Minister and the Minister of Labour that my team and I will be available, no matter what time it is, to discuss the possibility of finding a solution to this situation.
We in the NDP do not support the legislation that has been presented and we will explain why. We are here to propose changes, amendments and propositions that could improve the legislation. We are prepared to work with the government to find language that might actually get us out of the predicament that we find ourselves in today.
I simply want to say that we are available, it does not matter what time of day or night, to work with representatives of the government to try to accomplish that goal in the interests not only of 33 million Canadians, but also the people who work so hard to make sure we get mail service in this country.
Ensuring good labour relations in this country depends on the good faith of everyone, and unfortunately, the Conservative government has decided to act in bad faith. Postal workers in Canada's urban centres have been in talks with Canada Post since last October. Their contract expired just five months ago, on January 31. Now, this government, as the owner of this crown corporation that took in revenues of $2.81 million last year, is imposing wage reductions, especially on all new employees. The government is ordering an 18% reduction in the basic wage rate, as well as a reduction in vacation time, in addition to forcing new employees to work an additional five years before they are eligible to receive full pension benefits.
Even so, these workers have bargained in good faith. Throughout all of the bargaining, they made sure that Canadians got their mail and that all social services cheques were delivered on time. That is very important for Canadians to understand.
I think about these folks who work so hard for us. The image I have in my mind right now is visiting the large postal sorting stations. These postal sorting stations are huge operations. I visit them at least once every year to touch base, because it is a huge employer right on the border of my riding. Thousands of people are working there to sort the mail, and it is actually a surprisingly intimate process, despite all the machines.
I am thinking of some of the people who sit in their chairs and have all of these sorting boxes into which to put the mail that we write. Some of it cannot be sorted by a machine and has to be looked at by an individual.
There they are, and looking over their shoulders and talking to them, I have seen mail from all over the world. There are personal stories and messages from one Canadian to another, or from someone beyond our borders who is not a Canadian but is communicating with a Canadian. Chances are it is family related, or maybe it is business related, but there is an intimacy there. The respect with which those workers ply their trade is quite remarkable.
A lot of them, I noticed, wear various forms of braces on their hands and their arms because of the repetitive motions that they do. These motions produce a strain on their bodies to the point moving is painful and difficult. However, there they are, working nonetheless to try to provide a service and also because they have to provide for their families.
Another thing I noticed about that group of workers, at least in the plant near my riding, is the diversity. I do not think a more diverse group of Canadians could be found anywhere. They come from absolutely every background. Maybe that is why there is a certain appreciation of the importance of the mail. In a way it is a part of the democratic communication process that brought them to Canada in the first place, the notion that people can communicate freely, that they can speak their mind and that there is a public postal service to make sure people can communicate with each other.
Many of them will mention the charter of rights and so on that we have here in Canada, and how proud they are to be Canadians and to be working on behalf of Canadians. That is why I found it very distressing to see them being partitioned off as though they were somehow not part of the 33 million Canadians. They are as much a part of the 33 million Canadians as anybody else.
I am very proud of Canada Post and its management and the decisions that have been made there over the years. I have had my opposition, as many of us have had, to some of their decisions. I will speak about that later.
One decision was to turn over of many of the postal operations in the small businesses in my community to Shoppers Drug Mart. I have nothing against Shoppers Drug Mart, but it does not need to be delivering the post. Lots of small mom-and-pop variety stores have had to close because of a decision by Canada Post to give the contracts to the highest bidder. That has been very hurtful.
Nonetheless, I have been very proud of Canada Post as an institution in this country. I think of Purolator, for example. Most Canadians do not even know that it is owned by Canada Post and by the Canadian people. It does a fine job of delivering on our behalf in a very competitive environment and has taken leadership in environmental areas. Purolator has a hydrogen-powered van that operates out of a garage in my riding, and that hydrogen is created by the wind turbine that you see when you come into Toronto along the waterfront at the CNE. That is where the hydrogen comes from. That is a publicly owned postal delivery vehicle that is powered by the wind. I think that is fabulous.
Another reason I am personally fond of Canada Post is that it took a decision--and I appreciate the Prime Minister's support for it along the way--to issue a stamp in honour of the 100th anniversary of services to the blind in this country by the CNIB and by the Montreal Association for the Blind, which was founded by my blind great-grandfather, Philip E. Layton.
As it happens, Canada Post took the decision to put his image on the envelope. When we buy a group of those stamps, his image is there, and I take a lot of pride in that. All of those who have been working with and involved with the blind over the years appreciate that gesture. We could cite many stamps that have been issued and many gestures that Canada Post has made because it is part of the community. It is part of who we are, as Canadians, in many different ways.
I do not want what I have to say today about the legislation to take away from all of those positive things that we have to say, nor from the public services that we rely on, because we do rely on these public services, each and every one of us.
However, I have to speak against the bill. I must briefly explain why, or maybe not so briefly, as a matter of fact, if you don't mind, Mr. Speaker.
Effective labour relations in this country rely on good faith. We have not seen that in the actions of the government here. I too, like the member for Acadie—Bathurst, was quite shocked to hear the labour minister describe the situation facing us as a strike. That simply is not true. It was the most brazen example of propaganda designed to try to turn people against these workers that I have seen, and to see it right here in the House of Commons is shocking.
What we are facing right now is a lockout. If we did not have the lockout, we would not have this debate, we would not have this legislation and people would be receiving their mail.
The workers who provide that service are ready to go to work now, but they are faced with a problem. When they show up for work, there is a lock on the door. They cannot work. They cannot go into that sorting plant. They cannot go into the Post Office. They cannot collect the bag of mail and deliver it to people like my mother-in-law and lots of other people who are waiting for their mail.
There is a simple solution. I have asked the Prime Minister repeatedly over recent days to simply adopt this solution, which I will say again: Prime Minister, take the locks off the door and let us have our postal service back.
It is not a strike. It is a lockout initiated by the management, clearly supported by the government. We say that it is supported by the government because if the government were sincere in suggesting that the strike is causing a problem for the Canadian economy, it would be taking action to ensure that the mail was delivered as quickly as possible. The simplest way to do that is to take the locks off the doors, but that is not the objective, unfortunately, despite what is being said; the objective is to interfere with the process between workers and management in coming to a fair collective agreement. That, unfortunately, I must conclude, is the objective.
The government says it has to legislate the workers back for economic reasons, but if that is the case, why did it shut down the post office in the first place?
I would again ask the government to order Canada Post to take the locks off the doors. It is an agency of the government. Let us remember that. The actions it has taken have compromised the Canadian economy; let us remember that too.
It could be done now. A simple phone call would get that process sorted out within hours. I have no doubt that would happen if the Prime Minister were to call the CEO.
However, by siding with the employer and by pitting the workers against the Canadian people in a blatant attempt to try to divide and conquer, as we have seen the government do before, the government has essentially killed the incentive to bargain.
Let us put ourselves in the position of the CEO of the company. He would have a big grin on his face after seeing this legislation, which essentially tells him he does not have to do anything anymore. He does not have to compromise and he does not even have to talk to his workers, because the government is simply going to ram legislation through.
Can we guess what the icing on the cake will be? The government is going to give the workers less in wages than he, as CEO, was prepared to give them.
Mr. Speaker, do we know why else he would be smiling? It is because the CEO, who I am told is the best paid of the CEOs of the organizations we have in the Canadian government system, is allowed a 33% bonus on top of his salary. If a CEO's bonus is based on the profitability of the enterprise and he has just been told that a reduction of the wages of the workers has been legislated through the Parliament of Canada, can we guess what happens? It is higher profits and a bigger bonus. We know who is smiling now.
This is what leaves us with the sense that the government has essentially taken sides here, and we think in a most inappropriate way.
Let us look at the impact on the average full-time postal worker's family during the four years of the agreement.
It turns out that $857.50 would taken out of the pockets of the postal worker's family. We can understand why people would be upset about this, particularly when the CEO is going to get a bigger bonus by virtue of that very reduction.
If a government is prepared to do that to the postal workers, we have to ask ourselves who it is prepared to do that to next. Who is next?
This is why 33 million Canadians ought to be taking a very close look at this legislation and asking themselves if they are next. Will they be hit next? Will there be user charges to deal with the huge record deficit the government built up?
Mr. Speaker, we are getting commentary from the commentariat over here on the other side. One is tempted to respond by suggesting that the massive corporate tax cuts the Conservatives implemented left them with this deficit. If the government had followed our advice, it would not have this deficit.
A lot of Canadians are going to be wondering what will happen if their employer offers them a certain wage and there is a discussion and negotiation about wages. If the Prime Minister is willing to say to postal workers that the offer they were being given by their management was too high, so he brought in a law to reduce their wages, would that happen to them also?
I do not think there would be any reason to think it would not happen. In fact, I think there is every reason to be fearful that the government might well do it, and that anyone could be next. Who would that be?
The government will protest and say that it would never do that to anybody else, but there is a question of trust here that is going to be challenged by the legislation we see in front of us. The government is willing to do that to 55,000 Canadians, the very people who deliver the mail, usually with smiles on their faces no matter what the weather, and people will ask themselves if they could be next.
There is also the question of pensions.
Yes, many do not have a pension plan, so we need to strengthen the Canada pension plan to help all these people.
However, anyone who does have a pension plan for when they retire is looking at a government that is willing to impose restrictions on them. It is telling them they can't retire with the full pension they thought they had, the pension they told their families would be available for retirement and on which all family plans were dependent, the plan that kept workers going on some of the worst-weather days when their job involved going door to door or when their arms hurt as they were sorting the mail.
At the end of the day, that worker was probably thinking that he or she could retire with a certain pension and would not live in poverty, that the work would be worth it and would allow them to spend more time with their family, because a lot of this is shift work and workers do not have much time to spend with their families. So workers make promises to their spouses and kids that they will eventually spend more time with them based on their having a pension.
However, this legislation tells those workers they will have to work five years longer than they planned. That is not right. It creates further problems, which I will speak about in just a second. Sure, it would be a big saving for Canada Post, yet we could do all kinds of things if all that we wanted to do was to save money. Let us just cut everyone's salaries down to size, let us not have pensions, let us forget about health care. We could save money in all kinds of ways. Saving money is not, by definition, the best thing to do in all circumstances. It is a question of balancing things, and that has not been done in this legislation.
Canadians should therefore be forgiven for doubting Canada Post's claim that it is going to be in financial trouble if it does not squeeze the workers, the same workers who helped Canada Post make $1.7 billion in profits over the last 15 years. That was done by hard work, because the postal system did not make money years ago, as that was not how it was set up, but it has been structured that way for a number of years. Those workers have helped to create that profit, but now they are being punished for having done it. How do people get motivated when they are faced with that situation?
Canada Post made $281 million in net profits in 2009 alone, the last year for which we have the full numbers. Let us remember that the government gets a chunk of that money, so I suppose this is one of the ways that it is going to reduce the debt. To reduce its debt, the government is going to extract $857.50 from the average full-time postal worker's family. It will take that money and put it against the national debt. That is not right and it is not fair. The national debt is something that we all have to shoulder together, all 33 million of us, not just the 55,000 workers in the postal system.
The company does not need a bullying big brother to support its demands against workers who just want to support their families. This is really reprehensible legislation because of the way it tries to push people around, and it is not done in good faith.
Let us talk about the contract the government wants to impose. The contract divides workers into two categories: new versus old, young workers versus more senior workers. By asking new workers to accept lower wages, less secure retirement benefits and less vacation time, the government is turning them into second-class workers. I admire the workers for rising up against this injustice, even though it is not necessarily their rights and benefits that are in jeopardy, but those of future employees. The workers have stood up to protect the next generation, upholding the tradition of the labour movement. That is also a tradition of the NDP, one we are proud of.
It is linked to a broader value that we hold, a fundamental Canadian value, that no one should be left behind. That means that we do not create two classes of workers in a place like Canada Post.
The government actually wants to impose a contract that takes that very value and turns it on its head. It says that some should be left behind and says who they are going to be, essentially structuring it to give one generation of workers an inferior arrangement. This invites resentment in the workplace, which is only human. Over time the younger workers are going to resent the older workers and the better deal they have. How can that be positive for the morale of a workplace or the efficiency or quality of life of the workers?
It is really quite a negative a thing. It is dividing people once again. It weakens the bonds that can exist in a workplace between people working together. It pits worker against worker, and worse, in this context, a generation against another generation. I think that is a very dangerous situation.
It weakens their collective voice because to the extent they are not working and feeling like they are part of the same team but are feeling that there is a conflict within, their collective voice is not going to be as strong or as effective as it could be. Maybe that is what the government wants. Maybe that is what is really going on here, amongst other things, to try to weaken the voice of working people at their workplace. Certainly, if we look at this legislation in its many dimensions or the actions of the government in recent days on both of the strikes we have been dealing with here, people would have to come to the conclusion that this could be part of the strategy
From the perspective of some employers and governments, maybe this is somehow seen to be a good thing, to divide and conquer in a race to the bottom, except for those at the top who do better and better. In fact, the statistics in our country should be alarming for all members of Parliament, because the inequalities that are growing in our society are the kinds of inequalities that ultimately lead to a reduction in quality of life, a reduction in the sense of well-being. There are lots of measures of this.
The societies that have a greater level of equality, where the distance between the top and the bottom is not as great as other societies, have all kinds of advantages when it comes to the well-being of their citizens, everything from lifespan to measurements of disease and happiness, and the list goes on and on.
There has been a lot of work done on this. In fact, I know that a lot of parliamentarians of all political stripes are starting to pay attention to the work that is being done on the growing inequality and how that needs to be challenged.
Unfortunately, the policies of the government, piece by piece, have actually helped the inequality to grow. So there are cases where, for example, if someone is not a taxpayer with a decent income, some of the tax credit approaches offered by the government are not available to them.
Many of the tax reduction strategies have ended up benefiting those at the top, to a greater extent. Or, some of the measures that have been offered up are really only workable for people who have extra money at the end of the month or end of the year, when there are a lot of folks who do not have that.
The result is that we are going to see a step-by-step growth of the distance between those at the top and those at the bottom. What are we looking at here but a piece of legislation that actually makes that the case within this group of 55,000 employees, creating a distance within the workforce and, of course, the distance I spoke about earlier between the CEO with that whole bonus system and the workers. There are probably other upper echelon managers who get some kind of a bonus as well.
So the inequalities within that workplace are going to increase. That is a reflection of a pathology that is afoot in our society right now. This legislation runs counter to the sorts of initiatives we should be following to deal with that pathology.
It also undermines the workers' voice. Now some people perhaps think that is a good idea. I was doing an interview earlier today with Mr. O'Leary of The Lang and O'Leary Exchange. I had challenged him in an earlier interview, taking issue with that quote of his that "greed is good". I took him on and said that I did not think that greed should be considered a good thing. I just needed to go on the record saying that on the public broadcaster.
I had the opportunity to be interviewed by him on this very topic this afternoon. He asked me, "Wouldn't we be better off if we just simply didn't have unions at all, Jack?" He used my first name. I hope I can use it in that context. In responding to him, I pointed out that he had just saluted the very successful economy of Australia, which has a labour government and a strong union movement.
The fact is that the union movement in our country has given us and working people wherever unions are allowed to form a dramatically improved standard of living. We could go through the list of the things that have been accomplished by trade unionists over the years. Most of them were negotiated, perhaps in labour contracts to begin with, but became sufficiently popular with all Canadians that they became the law of the land.
One could start with child labour. Had we not had the union movement, we would have child labour. If we have any doubts about that, we should go to the places where there is child labour and find out how easy it is to organize a union there.
We could also take a look at things such as weekends off. We would not have weekends off if it were not for trade unionists organizing for the right of working families to have a little time together once every seven days.
We would not have health and safety committees in our workplaces, which sit down and talk about how to make working conditions safer and better for workers, without unions. However, we still have three workers a day dying on the job in Canada. We have an awful lot more work to do in these areas. We passed the Westray bill. That never would have happened, had it not been for the union movement. Here I refer to the steelworkers and all of those who supported that strong legislation we now have, which is being brought to bear in appropriate circumstances. I know there are corporations, large and small, that have changed their practices as a result of that bill.
I had the privilege of sitting on the board of directors of the fourth largest energy utility in the country, Toronto Hydro, and we did not. When I joined that organization, we did not have anywhere near adequate workers' health and safety. We had the worst record of any public utility in North American. This bill came in. We were all briefed on it as board members. I do not mind saying I had been pushing for change there, but it was that bill that ultimately said to the managers and directors of the board that they could be criminally liable if they knew that a situation was dangerous and did not do something about it. That snapped everyone to attention darn quickly.
I want to salute Toronto Hydro, because within six quarters it went from having the worst quarterly record of injuries and those sorts of situations on the job to having zero injuries a quarter, and it was because of that legislation.
I am really trying to make the point that the unions we are talking about here perform an extremely important service in our society. People are frustrated when something they were counting on is not available. When people's mail is not delivered, it is tough and it is very tough for small businesses.
I had a small business once and I would pay my contractors, but if the cheque had not arrived from the person I had the contract with, it was tough. Some small businesses right now are struggling because of that situation. Other business owners rely on the mail as fundamental to their business.
We all know about those kinds of businesses. That is why, if we were serious about these businesses, we would take the locks off the operation and let the workers get back to work.
I would like the government to understand how important it is to build bridges between generations and between different groups of workers. I would like the government to agree to work with us to defend the rights of workers and to secure a better agreement for their families. That is why we are proposing to work with the Prime Minister and his team to come up with acceptable amendments to this bill in order to improve the situation.
Let us be clear: this bill violates the rights of workers to negotiate a collective agreement in good faith. It also weakens the collective bargaining rights of all 33 million Canadians; their right to work together with their co-workers to secure better conditions, a right entrenched in section 2 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. These are the facts. This legislation sends a message to employers across the country that the government is prepared to side with employers against employees every time it has an opportunity to do so.
Why should employers bargain in good faith if they can count on the government to step in and impose what they cannot get at the bargaining table? Where is this going to end? Once we allow this sort of thing to get started, who knows where it could go?
That is why we propose that the laws be changed and why we cannot support the legislation. It encourages employers everywhere to go out and test the waters. Look what they got at Canada Post. Maybe we can manoeuvre into a similar position. Who do we have to call in the government to get it on side? Who do we check in with? I guess we will start with some of those consulting companies that seem to be populated by former members of the party. Maybe we will get some advice there, but that is a topic for another day.
By sending a message that back to work legislation could be the new norm for labour negotiations in our country, the whole notion of good-faith negotiations really goes out the window, and it is a slippery slope that the government wants to force Canadians to go down. I simply ask the government if this is really where it wants to go because it will be very dangerous.
It is important for us to understand that the benefits provided by collective agreements go beyond a mere contract. The added benefits negotiated by workers over the years have helped to raise the standards for all Canadians. Unionized workers fought for rights that we now take for granted: a decent wage to raise a family—the salaries of unionized workers have a positive upward effect on the salaries of non-unionized workers—plus occupational safety and health standards, the 40-hour work week, weekends, protection against harassment, vacations, workplace pension plans, and the list goes on.
Hand in hand with progressive parties like the New Democratic Party, collective bargaining has been one of those engines for progress for working people. I see this as a legacy to build upon, not something to be torn down.
We are celebrating our 50th anniversary as a political movement. At our convention, we reflected on our achievements over those years. It was always with one goal in mind, which was to make life better for working families. That was and is what we are.
At our convention, we reflected on our achievements over those years and we paid a special tribute to our founding national leader, Tommy Douglas, the father of medicare. Public health care was his signature achievement for all Canadians. Public pensions were another achievement, working with Lester Pearson. However, Tommy Douglas accomplished so much more, including rural electrification, universal access to education and income stabilization for farmers.
Tommy also knew that securing workers' basic rights was a key to a just and prosperous Saskatchewan and Canada. Therefore, as premier of Saskatchewan, he passed legislation, and we are going back many years, guaranteeing a minimum wage for working people. He passed legislation establishing a 40-hour work week, paid vacations and full collective bargaining rights for all workers.
Tommy gave credit to where credit was due, which was to the ideas that had come from working people. They were bargained into existence by working people. Tommy's job, as he saw it, was to extend those most basic protections to all working people through legislation in his province and in his country.
When we see legislation in this Parliament, we hope for the kind of legislation that would accomplish those kinds of goals. Instead, we are seeing legislation today that goes precisely in the opposite direction, for several reasons that I have touched on already. Other members of our party in our caucus will speak about other dimensions of this in the debate.
Tommy's legacy was extraordinary.
Sixty years ago, Tommy Douglas was instrumental in bringing in Canada's first real labour code.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:35 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Are we allowed to sing? I imagine that at times, it might improve the tone of the debate.
The labour code represented a major step forward for workers of the day. We will not sit idly by and watch the Conservatives turn back the clock and strip workers of vested rights they fought so hard to achieve.
I am simply not going to sit and watch the Conservative government follow in the footsteps of the U.S. Republicans and their Tea Party friends.
We have all been watching occurrences in Wisconsin, where the governor yanked collective bargaining rights from 175,000 public employees and nullified their rights to decent conditions, gender equality and fair pensions. The governor is not even hiding that this is an attempt to cut down the number of workers. It is not just in Wisconsin, but Ohio, Indiana and Idaho are all attacking workers, using the excuse of austerity.
Their real goal is to maximize profits by mistreating workers. The Canada Post Corporation Act does exactly the same thing: a profitable company is saying that it cannot afford to pay new hires. This Conservative government is complicit with the employer by proposing this legislation. Simply put, its inspiration is coming from the wrong place.
I will summarize our essential position.
First, we must not be dividing Canadians in this place by talking about 55,000 postal workers and 33 million other Canadians. It is time we started to see each other as all part of the same people who are trying to accomplish the same goals for our families. That is what this is about. Therefore, I am asking that we see less of this divisive politics, particularly in this debate because many Canadians will be following it.
I do not want those who deliver the mail or who sort it on our behalf, each and every day, to feel that they are somehow less than anyone else.
Second, this bill attacks the workers' basic right to negotiate their working conditions. That cannot happen.
Third, this bill will increase disparities in our society. If we begin to see numerous bills such as these in different areas of our economy and society, disparities will increase. This approach is completely unacceptable, not only to the New Democratic Party, but also to the great majority of Canadians.
People must be wondering if they and their families will be the next ones to suffer from the Conservative government's tactics. If the government can do this to Canada Post workers, will it do the same to other workers? Is there a list? Are there several other companies with the same type of contract? Will CEOs be celebrating tonight, tomorrow or this weekend because they can use the same tactic that Canada Post used? That is unacceptable.
To conclude, I want to reiterate once again that we can put an end to this dispute right now. The Prime Minister can ask Canada Post to take the locks off so that these people can return to work. My team and I are once again offering to work and create amendments to the bill so that we can end this debate and so that proper bargaining can take place.
That is all I can say at the moment.
I therefore move:
That Bill C-6 be not now read a second time but be read a second time six months hence.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:40 p.m.
Dean Del Mastro Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs
Mr. Speaker, I listened quite intently to the Leader of the Opposition give his speech. There were a number of things, frankly, on which we agree but there were a number of things on which we disagree.
I do have concerns when I hear conversations about different levels of Canadians. Well there are, sadly, Canadians who have not been at the table in these negotiations but, believe me, they are being deeply impacted.
His motion, which would suggest a hoist motion, to move this in six months, unlock the doors of Canada Post, for what? Is it so we can have more rotating strikes? Maybe tomorrow it would be Toronto that shut down. Maybe next week it would be Peterborough or somewhere in Ottawa or elsewhere. This is not a solution.
I have received notes from postal workers asking why they have not had an opportunity to vote. Their union would not let them vote on this contract. There is intimidation within the ranks of CUPW and workers are afraid. Does the member know that?
Would he call on CUPW and ask it to allow a vote on the last offer by Canada Post, or is he simply going to allow this kind of tyranny from the top union leaders?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:45 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, if that offer was so terrific one would think it would have at least been replicated in the legislation.
I appreciate the comments and observations from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister but he suggests that if we unlock the doors that this would take us back to the rotating strikes. We need to be crystal clear here. The representatives of the workers involved have said that if those locks are taken off they will go back to work and deliver the mail.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:45 p.m.
Kevin Lamoureux Winnipeg North, MB
Mr. Speaker, it was back in 1988 when I last heard of a six-month hoist motion. In fact, that was also on a labour bill. At the time, inside the Manitoba legislature, it was the New Democrats in opposition. When I get the opportunity to speak to this particular motion, I hope to fill in what actually transpired. There were some highlights and some lowlights.
I am very sympathetic to many of the arguments. The Liberal Party believes in the efforts and work that the Canada Post workers have put in and the services they provide for Canadians. We do not question that. The issue is the lockout.
Does the Leader of the Opposition believe that, if the lockout were never put in place, we would have had an agreement or the mail would have continued to be delivered to address the concerns in terms of the public interest?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:45 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, yes I do.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:45 p.m.
Peter Stoffer Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Mr. Speaker, I can say that in my 14 years here, the hon. member's speech has been one of the finest speeches ever in the House of Commons.
My father was a letter carrier in south Marpole for many years in Vancouver, British Columbia. The proudest moment as an immigrant to this country was when he got a job with Canada Post, which meant that he had medical benefits, dental benefits, and not just for him and his wife, but for the nine children that he had. It was the proudest moment of his day when he was on SW Marine Drive and put that postal cap on.
Does the hon. Leader of the Opposition believe that the government's real agenda is the privatization of Canada Post?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:45 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore for his comments just now and the story about his father. It is a touching story and underlines so many points. He summarized in 30 seconds what it took me half an hour to try to explain, and I appreciate it.
The question really addresses a fear that many have, which is that the government would degrade public services to the point where people's complaints about them begin to increase and, therefore, there are calls for privatization. We have seen this occur before and that, naturally, is a concern. I did not elaborate on it here but it naturally is a concern for a great many of us.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:50 p.m.
Louis Plamondon Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC
Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the official opposition leader's speech, and I am wondering if he did not overlook a certain aspect of the situation. I was here in 1997 when back-to-work legislation was passed. In that bill, the legislator included provisions that required the mediator or arbitrator to take the importance of good labour-management relations into account.
However, the bill that we are debating today does not include any such provisions. There is therefore a danger that, once the regulations are imposed, the work atmosphere will not be conducive to good working relations and this will have a negative impact on the efficiency and effectiveness of the overall postal system. The arbitrator responsible for the final offer is not the person who has to live with the consequences of his decision. Can the leader of the opposition tell us whether he also hopes that such provisions are included in the bill?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
June 23rd, 2011 / 9:50 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's comments clearly reflect his experience. He is right and we share the same concerns about this bill. That is why we proposed discussing amendments to try to address the shortfalls of the current bill.
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:50 p.m.
Michael Chong Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Mr. Speaker, the leader of the opposition said in his speech that he is opposed to this bill, but he also said that he wants to propose amendments to improve it.
The Leader of the Opposition mentioned several times in his speech that he is willing to improve the legislation. What exactly are the amendments that he proposes to bring forward?
Restoring Mail Delivery for Canadians Act
Government Orders
9:50 p.m.
Jack Layton Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, there are a number of amendments touching on a number of areas that we are preparing to submit. However, it would be particularly valuable if the government would indicate a willingness to talk about amendments, because it might be possible to agree on a package of proposals that could meet our various objectives, which is why I am reluctant to run through a long list.


text:
John Maynard Keynes, Baron Keynes of Tilton
IntroductionKeynes, John Maynard, Baron Keynes of Tilton (kānz) [key], 1883–1946, English economist and monetary expert, studied at Eton and Cambridge.
Sections in this article:
The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Copyright © 2012, Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
See more Encyclopedia articles on: Economics: Biographies

subset: commoncrawl


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By PATSY STODDARDEditor
The Crystal Rosenberg home has a long and varied past and it currently houses the Emery County Chamber of Commerce as well as the Emery County Community Foundation. The foundation has many plans for the old home. Below you will find excerpts from a history by Argene Olsen to give an idea of where the home has been and where it is going.
The history of the first home of Abinadi and Hannah Seely Olsen begins prior to their marriage on Feb. 21, 1887. The home is located on the corner of Main and Center Street in Castle Dale. Hanna is the daughter of Orange and Hanna Olsson Seely. Only three rooms had been built when the newlyweds moved in. Abinadi had been assisted by his father, Henning Olsen Ungerman (later known as Bishop Olsen), an old country trained mason from Denmark. He built the walls and did the plastering and white washed the walls. The center of the walls was built with adobe brick, which was previously dried by sunlight rather than being burned to a harder finish.He also built chimneys for two fireplaces. The three rooms were finished with space left above for upstairs rooms, which were finished later. In time a kitchen and cellar were added.
There was no running water in the house all through the years that this family lived here. Every drop of water that was used for several years had to be dipped into barrels from a nearby water ditch. The water had to stand until the dirt settled. Then it was carried a bucketful at a time across the street to the house for family use. Each morning while water was cool, it was carried to the cellar. This water was used for drinking.
The Dave and Elva Seely family lived in this home from 1909 to 1940. During these years there were building improvements, rooms added and others finished. When running water came to Castle Dale in 1914, the Seely family was already enjoying a kitchen sink, a bathtub, and laundry machine in their new bathroom and laundry room. Bedrooms had been completed upstairs, also.
This home in the center of town became a social gathering place. Every New Year's morning, Elva and Dave served breakfast for all their crowd. If someone did not attend the New Year's Eve dance, those who did, went from house to house and pulled people out of bed and they assembled at the Seely house. DeLon Olsen was always the cook serving his famous sourdough hot cakes, ham, bacon, toast, and plenty of black coffee to neutralize the "liquid spirits" consumed before arriving at the party. These breakfasts lasted until about noon on New Year's Day.
There were vegetable gardens on the north and west side of the house. On the east and south grass grew. In 1928, Mrs. Cash appeared at the door with lilac plants and took Elva out to show her how to plant and care for a few flowers. That gave Elva the gardening "bug". She went to Salt Lake and had a nursery lay out a plan for landscaping the whole yard. How she worked to get it all finished and maintained! In the spring and summer she would be up at 4 a.m. to water and mow the lawn. It looked like velvet. Her flowers and shrubs were beautiful. It was one of the prettiest places in town.
Crystal (Olsen) and Angus Rosenberg and their children moved into Crystal's childhood home in 1944. There was no need to remodel the home. It was well suited to the needs of this family. The hospitality that radiated from the walls of this home from its very beginning in 1887 still continued. Crystal maintained a beautiful outdoor landscape of flowers, bushes, and trees. Her vegetable garden each summer was a glorious sight to see and became the topic and admiration of all who passed by. Crystal lived in her childhood home until about 1987, when at about 86 years old she moved to the nursing home in Ferron where she died in 1988 at age 87.
What's happening to the old Crystal Rosenberg house on the corner of Center and Main in Castle Dale?
You may remember that Crystal Rosenberg's son, Nad Peterson, and her grandchildren chose to donate Crystal's home to the Emery County Community Foundation nearly one and one half years ago. The Visitor Information Center for the Emery County Chamber of Commerce has been in the house since that time. But other exciting things have been happening in the downstairs rooms in the meantime.
Glendon and Franklin Johnson and the Castle Valley Ranch in Moore have donated time and money to help the Community Foundation "turn back the clock" on Crystal's house. Years ago, the ceilings had been lowered; the wood floors carpeted; and wood paneling installed to cover up those old, uneven adobe walls. Weeks were spent taking out the ceiling tile, removing the wood paneling, removing 100 years of paint and wall paper from the walls, and stripping paint off the beautiful old wooden doors and window frames. Bonnie Swenson fell in love with the wooden stairs and spent countless hours stripping them down so they can be stained to match the rest of the wood. Frank chose the historical colors for the rooms that had now been stripped bare. Foundation members wondered at how the dark colors brought back from the past would ever look. As you walk through beautiful leaded glass doors, a glowing yellow greets visitors in the entry way; this is followed by a blue gray straight from the Mancos shale hills; go a little farther and you are greeted by the soft coral of the Castle Valley hillsides; and then into a dark green room mimicking the pinon-junipers on those hillsides. The color palette reflects the colors of Castle Valley and the San Rafael Swell.
The foundation still has a few more things to finish inside and the outside still needs to be repainted. Thanks to a donation from someone in the community concerned with historic preservation, the inside will hopefully be finished next month. When the restoration is complete, the Emery County Community Foundation plans to use the first two rooms to showcase the local folk art of the many talented people in Emery County. They hope to share the "green room" with another non-profit dedicated to assist the people of Emery County. The Foundation also hopes in the future to restore the beautiful gardens of Crystal Rosenberg. The foundation is planning a rose garden to honor the women who came to Castle Valley and truly "made the desert bloom like a rose." There will also be a kitchen herb garden, a Mormon medicinal plant garden, and eventually a large vegetable garden. Produce will be donated to the food bank. The foundation is hoping the community will join in this beautification and restoration project honoring pioneer women by donating rose bushes, plants, drip irrigation systems, or the labor for the gardens, or paint and labor for the exterior of the house. This could include eagle scout projects and service projects by county youth or adult groups. A plaque honoring the name of the pioneer woman and years of her birth and death will be displayed for each donation. The goal is to have the restoration completed by the end of July when the Castle Valley Pageant begins so an open house can be held to showcase the contributions of pioneer women to the settlement of Castle Valley. Hopefully, the "Crystal House" will soon "radiate hospitality that has characterized the house since 1887" to visitors and county residents alike.
The Emery County Community Foundation's mission is to enhance the quality of life for all citizens of Emery County, now and for generations to come and seek creative means to solve community problems. In the past, the foundation has funded educational scholarships for local students and supported efforts to preserve the Emery Church. For more information about how you can help our community while receiving a Utah income tax credit contact Linda Jewkes, Bonnie Swenson, or Kathleen Truman.


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Dog-friendly Melrose, 3 Dogs & Escape to the Country
A majestic 19th century country house hotel in the beautiful Scottish Borders, with stunning views of the River Tweed. The Dryburgh Abbey Hotel sits adjacent to the enigmatic ruins of Dryburgh Abbey (the burial site of Sir Walter Scott).
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By Zach Vavricka
St. Paul (NNCNOW) - It's an expensive solution to a difficult problem that could be deemed unconstitutional.
Since 1994, the Minnesota Sex Offender Treatment Program has grown to a population of close to 700 clients.
With locations in Moose Lake and St. Peter, the treatment facilities house those who are still deemed dangerous to the public, but who have finished their prison time.
"They are committed because they are deemed to be dangerous to the public and in need of treatment," said Rep. Tina Liebling, DFL 26A.
Minnesota legislators are hoping to fix the program following a class action lawsuit, prompting a federal order to reform.
A pair of bills are making their way through the legislative process, hoping to offer alternatives.
"It is impermissible to incarcerate people, simply because you are afraid they will do something bad in the future," said Former Supreme Court Chief Justice Eric Magnuson, the leader of a task force attempting to gather data and information about the M.S.O.P.
The legislation would have the same standard to commit someone to a treatment center, but would create alternatives as to where that treatment could occur.
"Maybe in a secure setting, or maybe in a less secure setting if that can become constant with public long," said Liebling.
A request of information was sent out to several facilitates in Minnesota. 21 of them sent back their perspective of what an alternative setting could be, and how much it would cost.
Rep. Liebling said that GPS monitoring devices are one of the options on the table.
Also, those in treatment would receive regular reviews, in which the court system could decide to grant a provisional discharge.
The bill in the House was laid over for more debate. The Senate bill was advanced to the finance committee.


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Jason Gregor
July 04 2012 10:11AM
Darcy Hordichuk was twenty years old when he was drafted 180th overall by the Atlanta Thrashers in the 2000 draft. His first year of pro hockey was in 2000/2001 when he split 80 games between the Thrashers and the Orlando Solar Bears of the IHL. He got a taste of the NHL, playing 11 games and he fought six times. But most of his first pro season was in Orlando where he played 69 games, scoring 7 goals and 10 points while racking up 369 penalty minutes.
Many say defence is the hardest position to learn in pro hockey, but I'd suggest that being a young tough guy is way more dangerous. Hordichuk fought over 35 times his rookie year in Orlando, but his head coach, Peter Horacek, rewarded him with icetime in the playoffs where Hordichuk tallied 3 goals and 6 points in 16 playoff games. Hordichuk knows his ability and willingness to fight got him his NHL job, but like most fighters the job is much easier when the coach understands how hard the job is.
It is a fine balance for any coach. You want your physical players to be tough and rugged, but they can't take too many stupid penalties. The players know this, but they also have to know if they cross the line, their coach won't automatically staple them to the bench or give them a permanent seat in the press box.
When Hordichuk signed a new one-year deal over the weekend, I got the sense from his commentst that he wanted to be better next year, but he also needed a bit longer of a leash. I chatted with Hordichuk on my radio show yesterday, and as always he was very candid.
JG: You did not mince your words over the weekend when talking about your role and that you want to be more gregarious this season. Did you feel that the shackles were on you last season when it came to trying to intimidate the opposition?
DH: I think that it was kind of obvious when you look at different games. You look at when Jared Boll was taking runs at guys and it was 4-0 and we were in 29th place. I think that most of the previous teams that I had played on I would have been given a green light. But when you're walking that fine line it's kind of tough because you don't want to all of a sudden be sitting out the next five or ten games because obviously you're not buying into the system, or the coach's system. I'm just excited for the opportunity coming up this year. Tom [Renney] was great for us, he was great for the team and he's a good man, and I'm just really excited about Ralph [Krueger] coming in.
JG: Have you had conversations with Ralph about you understanding the right time to do it?
DH: I did a couple of times during the season when I got the green light. I talked to Ralphie and he talked to Tom and kind of made it happen so that's why I feel comfortable and confident heading in this year. And that's why I chose to re-sign; because I think that you don't have to be an idiot out there, or be a donkey but as the season goes on and guys are starting to get run a little more you have to kind of draw the line somewhere early in the season so that guys know this is what you're up against if it happens. If that means taking a suspension then I'm willing to do that.
JG: And that's a fine line Darcy; understanding that role and how to do it without being suspended. How do you go about that, and how important do you think that is because the team is very, very young and they're going to need some of that protection.
DH: There's no doubt it is a fine balance, but the big thing is that I've been in the league for a long time. So I know a lot of the refs and the refs know me and they understand that if they treat you with respect, I'm not going to go out there and do anything crazy. And that if I wanted to, that like the game in Vancouver, that the game could change real quick and the next thing you know they're trying to throw everyone out of the game to get it to calm it down. You have the respect between the refs and yourself and they understand that you have a job to do. And after scrums and when I go after guys, they give me my opportunity more times than not they let me get away with it because I'm talking to them before games saying 'listen you guys, I know that you don't want me to do this, but it's not about you, it's about what I have to do to continue do my job on this team,' and they obviously shake their heads and yeah they know and I continue to get away with it.
JG: You clearly understand the role and there's a guy like Ben Eager who's a very good skater and he's talked about wanting to be a player, and not just pigeonholed in that role. Have you had those conversations with Ben and do you think that he understands the gamesmanship of that role?
DH: Benny knows exactly what his role is. He knows what he has to do and I think that people get frustrated with him, but I think when Bennie played well he felt that maybe he was rewarded. So maybe when he wasn't rewarded he didn't want to fight for somebody. And that's what I think that it came down to. So it's one of those things were sometimes you feel you deserve a little more than you've been getting so you'll go to bat for somebody. But I think that he thought he was getting the short end of the stick and he just gave up on that role, and maybe on Tom a little bit.
I think that sometimes you've got to do it and then maybe you get rewarded but obviously sometimes there could be a power struggle. But Bennie and I feed off of each other. When I'm in the lineup and when Bennie's in the lineup you get that much tougher. Now it's not just picking on one guy, you've got a couple of guys you have to go through. And it becomes more of an intimidation factor where Bennie can go after them and then if someone comes after Bennie, then I can go after them.
I think that our roles this year will be more important than they ever have. And it's not about the ice time, it's not about anything to do with that, it's just about trying to put the fire out when it starts and understanding our young guys are starting to get run right at the beginning of the game. And it might be that one shift where we get to go out against the Ott or the Burish or the Brown, or guys like that who are causing the havoc.
It's not always the tough guys, but as soon as you can keep those guys in check the game calms down. And if they don't, and if you're not able to get those guys in check then you just have to go after the skilled guys. And whether it's this game or the next, when the game gets out of hand you might even have to go after the goalie; not run him, but get in his face; whatever you've got to do to let these guys know. A perfect example, look what I did with Turco a couple of years back when Ott was running around and he didn't want to fight. The rest of the season, we didn't have any problems.
Last year, I wasn't able to do that.
JG: I'm guessing there has to be the understanding from the coach and even your teammates about your role. I've heard a lot of teammates tell me that they'd kill off an aggressive penalty a lot easier and a lot harder than they ever would a lazy tripping penalty. It just seems to be in the psyche of teams that they give a bit more on the PK when you see a guy take an aggressive penalty with a big booming hit or something. Do you sense that?
DH: For sure, but last year it wasn't to that point. It was to the point where I had guys coming up to me telling me 'we need you to do your job', 'we need you to fight this guy' or 'this guy's calling me on' and I'm like it's tough to fight a guy when you know that you're not getting a shift in the third period. And the other team knows that because when you're starting to chirp their guys with, 'keep your head up, I'm coming after you' and they're telling you to 'shut up and sit on the bench.'
I don't care who you bring in here, you could bring in Georges Laraque, you could bring in anyone in here and it doesn't matter if the other team knows you won't be given an opportunity to protect your teammates.
JG: So you need a coach who understands the role, but one who has the faith in you that he can put you on the ice and that not only can you be physical, but you can be defensively reliable.
DH: I'm not saying that Tom didn't, but you look at the past with Stortini, with MacIntyre that was kind of something that it didn't matter who it was, and it was the situation where coming in, maybe I should have realised it. But I'm really excited about the youth movement and I'm really excited to protect these guys. Sometimes it gets frustrating but that's the past and this is a big year for me going forward. Hopefully I can get the fans more of what they want to see.
JG: Did you have that conversation with Ralph Krueger prior to signing?
DH: Ralph and I are on the same page. He knows exactly what my frustrations were last year and he knows that I'm a team guy, and that's it's not about me. If I've got to sit, I've got to sit. When we had those four or five games where I got to play under him we kind of hit it off. And it's funny about that, it's not about the fighting; it's about maybe trying to hold other guys on the team accountable.
Maybe I get Benny going by going up to him and saying 'Benny we've got to fight', or "we've got to do whatever it takes." I can help out a guy like Ralph, who maybe doesn't see guys that don't want to do certain things, because he's motivating other guys in the locker room. And I think that a big part of why I'm coming back is to get everyone on the same page, and maybe get myself back on the same page.
JG: Last year some of the young guys, Sam Gagner, Taylor Hall, told me that they needed more buy in, and that everyone on the team needed to buy in. It's pretty obvious that you know what your role is, and on every successful team guys have to play within their roles to be successful. Would you be the one who goes around and looks some guys in the eye and says you better buy in come September?
DH: There's only so much that the leadership can do on the team. There's only so much that some of the guys can say and it's one of those things where if the leaders in the dressing room can't get it done, you look towards your dictator to hold guys accountable and maybe make an example out of it. You look at in Ottawa where guys like Spezza and Alfredson were snapping on the bench and the press conference after the game focused on why those guys were snapping.
And Maclean (head coach) said that on most nights that they are the best players on the ice and when they're the best players, they get to play. But today they weren't the best players. And it says a lot, I mean it sent a message to everyone else in the dressing room that there are no freebees around here and you've got to work for it. Whoever is working for it at the end of the day gets the opportunity to play more or get more chances on the powerplay. So hopefully that is going to happen this year.
JG: Have you had any conversations with Theo Peckham, ever since he got knocked on the button by Nathan Horton. Is that a mental hurdle for some young guys to overcome and regain all of their machismo after taking a shot like that?
DH: There's no doubt about it, and the other thing is as soon as you get a chance to play a few years in the league and you get comfortable because you're making a little bit more money, you feel like you can develop in a different role and it's just one of those things where you don't want to put yourself in that situation. But Theo's a really tough guy, and I think that he understand his role, but it's tough to get into fights and it is tough for anyone to get back in there regularly. I'm confident Theo will play tough all over the ice next year.
JG: Last year, late in the season you hit George Parros right on the button. Was that the hardest you've ever hit a guy in your career where it didn't buckle him?
DH: Ya, you know I did the same punch with Josh Gratton, hit him right on the button. And if you look on Youtube he goes right down to his knees but he pops back up. But you saw that I started trying to change my technique a little by the end of the year. I started to throw a little bit more lefts, because I started to get comfortable with my left again and I knew that I was going to get hit by a few upper cuts, because I knew that he (Parros) likes to throw upper cuts.
But something that I'm working on this summer is to be a little bit more unpredictable and set guys up with that left. And as soon as you kind of come in with your left, they're going to throw a couple of rights but then you can come back with a couple of overhead right and I thought for sure that he (Parros) was going down. When you look at the video, he kind of stumbles and stopped throwing for a little bit. But I think that I woke him up with that one.
JG: How have you been able to stick around this long in your role because you're like a light heavyweight taking on heavyweights all of the time.
DH: My dad tells me to stay in my seat, and I'm like listen, sometimes these guys are 6'4" or 6'5" and they basically just string you out. You've got to kind of throw wildly; you've got to kind of get them off balance. But it's one of those things where you're giving up that much height and that much weight for the guys that I'm fighting on an everyday basis.
I mean you look at what I do with guys that are my size, the Carcillo and the guys that are around my weight, I can pretty much walk through them. But it's tougher when you get into guys like the Kassians. I'm usually 215 and 6' and these guys are 250/255 and 6'4" and 6'5".
The big thing is coming with the lefts next year and just getting comfortable with that. Knowing that you're going to have to take a couple, but that's my role and I need to make sure I surprise them too. My goal is to try to get more decisive this year and maybe even be more of a grappler in the fights and try to wear guys down. And get comfortable doing that, instead of just trying to come out and just drop the first bomb and hope that I hit him.
JG: What does it mean to you and your teammates when Justin Schultz chose the Oilers over 29 other franchises?
DH: I think this organization has had a game plan since day one and this is just a part of it. It's just exciting because everybody understands the youth movement that's going on and the potential that we have. Obviously you have to go through the ups and downs, but the pieces are starting to fall together in the puzzle and the big one was trying to find some D-men. Schultz coming on board is so huge because then it can help attract some other players in the coming years.
JG: How come you're not on Twitter, you're a funny guy, what's going on?
DH: I don't know, I think that I would get myself into trouble if I was on Twitter. I like to say my opinions sometimes... I think that eventually I'll get on. Right now I have enough things going on with two kids and a wife and training. But I think you've inspired me, I might sign up soon.
Hordichuk isn't going to play 12 minutes a night, and he isn't going to be an offensive catalyst, but it is clear he knows his role and he wants to ensure the young, skilled forwards won't be taken advantage of next year. It sounds like Ralph Krueger understands what Hordichuk can bring and that he will want him to be more proactive rather than reactive.
I think a big issue with the Oilers for the past five years is that this team reacts after the opposition has delivered the big hit or cheap shot, and by then it is too late. The Oilers, as a team, need to be more proactive with their physical play, and based on Hordichuk's words it sounds like Krueger will encourage that.
If the Oilers are going to improve they need to be better in every aspect. They need to be better defensively, they need to be more consistent, their veterans need to produce more, their goalies need to be solid all year, they need to be harder to play against and their tough guys need to be more assertive.
If all of that happens, the Oilers might be in the playoff hunt come March.
July 04 2012, 10:33AM
God, is it September yet? NEED HOCKEY. NOW.
Good article JG. It looks like Darcy is pumped up for next season and for whatever reason Krueger is going to give him more rope than Renney did...it's about time!
I'm looking forward to Darcy's FIST-a-cuffs this season!
July 04 2012, 10:37AM
...here's a guy who deserves to be on the ice when the team he's protected for as many years as he will is hoisting the Stanley Cup...great read...
one of your best transcribed pieces EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 04 2012, 08:11PM
@ Bruce McCurdy....I attended the Flyers game last February where Hartnell put Paajarvi out of the game with a knee check. Hordichuk was dressed, but never got off the bench for the rest of the game.
The (acting) coach that night was Ralph Krueger[quote]
Well timed discipline it was. Edmonton won a close one that evening. Maybe the powerplay the Flyers would have enjoyed from this retaliation was the difference, no?
Krueger wasn't about to rain on someone elses parade. Why would Ralph openly question Renneys routine by implementing widespread changes (like we'll see this season) for such a brief moment in the limelight? Krueger may have been the coach that evening but there's no doubt it was Tom Renneys team.
D@mn Hordichuk. I wasn't big on his resigning until I read this article. I wondered what happened to him and Eager last season (both appeared to be toothless vipers) and this article does set some of that straight. I don't expect Hordichuk to put up 30-40 points, but if he plays defensively responsible but aggressive hockey that protects the kids, throw him out there.
If Krueger is the "understanding and empowering" coach that former and current players say he is, I'm looking forward to the coming season.
Renney not coming back is definitely making more sense.
Great article.
Hope the "team toughness" crowd re-reads this article several times over until it begins to dawn on them what really happens on the ice and between the benches during games. Hordi's answers tell it all.
Also interesting insights on what happened with Tom Renney last year. Again, Hordi's comments are very telling.
I'm anxious to see what Kreuger can do for this team!
July 04 2012, 11:11AM
Hordy's got a great attitude towards the game. If he and Krueger can motivate Eager to muster some Hall-level gumption, he just might be able to move into a top 6 power forward role. A massive dude who can skate like the wind and throw a pass; if you put him with Eberle and the Nuge, all he'd have to do is get to the front of the net and crash & bang.
Now I have visions of Eager headlocking the Sedins while Ebs and Nuge see who can make the nicer pass to J. Schultz at the point, who then bombs one off of Burrow's cup before sending it under Luongo's glove.
July 04 2012, 11:29AM
There will be alot less impulse to stick our fingers down our throat when the Wild come through town now.
Subtract 2 impact players from that eastern conference. Minnesota still has some holes on their roster, but Suter and Parise should make them a playoff team.
Wow, great interview. Love Hordi. It speaks volumes that 3 Tambo signings from last year were completely mis-managed by Renney. We got Hordi and Eager to make us tougher, yet Renney refused to play them. Meanwhile he forced the situation with Belanger, never getting it right. It's no wonder Renney's gone.
Signing players is like upgrading the parts of your car. Swap suspension, rims and tires, get an cold air intake kit and upgrade the exhaust. Better car, right?
Not if the driver is the problem, it isn't. I see Krueger as a big upgrade over the previous driver of this team. Once he makes this team accountable, and steadies the play on the defensive side of the puck, it will allow more players to be effective, regardless of how they played last year.
Once you see just how well your car can perform with the right driver behind the wheel, only then can you start to assess it's parts and their effect on the whole driving experience.
July 04 2012, 12:42PM
@ Smokey
Some people will never get it. There is no way the policeman is a myth unless you get an enforcer that will only fight the other team enforcer rather than the person who took the run on our player or their stars.
If you have a coach that does not believe in the enforcer role then the enforcer is useless. If you get a coach that believes in it and gets an enforcer they trust and can give them the decision making power that if someone runs Hall change their season for them. if we have more than one guy that can and is willing to dothis if he gets suspended, then Eager or Sutton, or Peckam are in and their role has to be clear as well.
Picture playing Vancouver as everyone will enjoy this thought. Lapierre is running around taking cheap shots at our stars. Eager or Hordy catch him with a good elbow and say watch yourself. Run our stars and we do the same.
This may or may not work. If it doesn't, one of them goes after him and makes him fight taking him out of the game. The other one take a cheapshot on one of the Sedin Sisters taking them out of the lineup for a few games. This is a very clear message. Not one everyone approves of, but a reality in what happens on the ice.
Gregor, relax, way to read into my comment. I did not mean to insult Hordi by saying he had brain damage. You read the headlines just like I do, how many tough guys are developing CTE or Chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I feel bad for these guys risking their lives taking shots to the head often in inconcequential staged fights to appeal to the masses. Besides the great team guy he is, I don`t see value in having the token enforcer.
I`d rather the Oilers work on team toughness as other teams are doing. The argument Hordi protects Nuge because he goes after a guy in the third period when the Nuge was popped in the first sends what sorta message. I don`t buy that. To make an effective responce to such a situation when someone goes after a teams stars, the response needs to be immediate.
The other thing I don`t get is that you are touting all of a sudden the the role of the enforcer. I remember you commenting that a player I believe from Minny commented to you that they did not change the way they played just because Laraque was on the Oilers. So when Hordi is on the ice, is going make that player adjust their behavior, I doubt it.
My point is this, Hordichuk does not address the fact the Oilers need to get some more grit and size. Hes a fighter you can`t play more then 3 minutes a night. He does not stop the Sarich`s from taking a run at Hall, or Torres` hitting Eberle one little bit. I`m concerned that not addressing the need for players who can actually play with grit is a continued failure of this organization to address the same problem they have had for a conciderable amount of time. I apologize if I missed the point of your article. I did enjoy it.
Just the fact that Belanger was having a horrible year offensively, yet Renney continued to give him powerplay time, trying to get him out of his funk. It didn't work. In fact he looked worse and worse as the year went on. If Krueger can get Belanger going this year it should help out quite a bit. I'm sorta looking foward to a 4th line of Eager - Belanger - Hordi actually.
Based on this interview............I for one am very happy to have him back.
I did not see the limitations that Renny had placed on the tough guys........but this really helps put it into prespective.
I hope that we get another tough guy ( Doan) that can play in the top six! Cant wait for the season to begin.
July 04 2012, 10:41AM
Love Hordi. Guy is a consumate professional who understands his role and by all accounts is a great teammate. In preseason last year he was taking runs at everyone on the other team. Early in regular season he got hurt throwing a hit and missed quite a few games. Never seemed right after that. Not sure if injury was the issue or Renny handcuffing him.
When Hordi is right and causing havoc he is effective. I am really glad to hear he has Eager's ear. If he can get Big Ben playing with consistent grit and passion, that alone makes the signing worthwhile. Ben Eagers tools and Hordi's attitude would make a GREAT player - Darben Eagerchuk. Now THAT is the guy we need!
All this good news for the Oilers and now they need it more than ever with Parise and Suter signing with the Wild.
July 04 2012, 10:46AM
OT: Suter AND Parise to Minnesota? My God.
Does this mean other chips are going to start falling faster now? And does this mean the Oilers are going to have to make a bigger push just to try and keep up in our own division?
You dont want to mess up the rebuild process but another year of losing does not actually serve the rebuild either. We need to start winning some games.
Hordichuk should fight Parise :)
It's starting to become more clear now why Renney was not brought back.I am sure Hordichuk wasn't the only guy who felt like this about the coach.There was some games were Eagar played really well, only to be benched or have limited ice time.If Krueger can motivate and get this team to buy in, look out it will be an exciting year for Oiler's fans!!
July 04 2012, 10:50AM
I can't emphasize enough, the importance of that Hordichuk signing, awesome signing for the Oil. Kreuger and his efforts to put players in a much better position to succeed will see more return with his confidence in Darcy than any other player.
Hordichuk is one of the new SQUEEEEEEEEE brothers for the 2012-2013 season. 40 goals and a hundred penalty minutes for the bruise brother this season alone. Him and Nugent-Hopkins will be inseperable by the end of the year.
Start throwing first and ask questions later.......WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
July 04 2012, 10:55AM
~...how can we possibly stop ourselves from going out and buying brand new Minnesota Wild jerseys ...
that team's waaaay better than ours now....!~
July 04 2012, 10:58AM
@pelhem grenville
Totally recognize that Minnesota isnt a powerhouse still (I hope anyways) but hell Edmonton has a tough time with them even without Parise and Suter. Even if we are better dont see how them as our Cryptonite getting better is good for us.
July 04 2012, 11:10AM
it's even weirder too beaker ...when parise gets there and captain koivo won't give up his #9 jersey parise sez cool gimme 99...that's when we ARE in trouble ...Cryptonite or not these two will put minny up to the next level ...barring injuries they could...
July 04 2012, 11:18AM
@pelhem grenville
I honestly dont think they are a top echelon team still. Playoff team? Definitely. Cup contender? Don't think so.
We all know that adding two high-priced items to a team does not automatically make the team that much better. The Minnie coach still has to fit helmets on those swelled heads in the locker room (including Heatley), and keep the $700k/yr players from feeling like 2nd class players.
OK, maybe I'm grasping at straws, but lets wait to see just how good this team really is.
July 04 2012, 11:28AM
Beaker...it's a gut feel thing ... imo Suter finds it tough sledding without his Shea-man mate and Parise lands without the pressure cooker around his neck and takes a not-on-purpose year off...
yes not a contender but a force the Oil must reckon with in time... they might have to go through Minny to get to the conference final instead of Canuckleheads...still this double signing wasn't at all on my radar...my mind is bending which doesn't say a whole lot...
July 04 2012, 11:38AM
bingbong 'splain what 'situation' with Belanger ...
...thought the triangle just had an epic 'bad year'
So we are happy to sign a guy who probably did not play more then 100 minutes last year. Maybe under Krueger Darcy will play an average of 30 seconds more a game, and fight 2 more times. This is a failure to resign a guy who provides nothing much else. No one is running the kids with Hordi on the ice or not on the ice. No one fears the guy.
If we are basing this signing as a success because we are neadrathals who want to watch some guy already with brain damage throw fist a cuffs for entertainment, then its a huge success. I like a good fight as much as the next guy, but Hordi serves no other purpose. The notion of the policeman is a myth. The Oilers Powerplay should serve that purpose.
July 04 2012, 11:48AM
...ok then why no love for Renney ...
Looks like Minny just became a powerhouse -WOW . Heatley will be happy now . Vegas will probably make them top odds to win Stanley now . Boy is our division getting stronger . Not much we can do to counteract what Minny did - maybe this year we might be relegated to "Minny Me " in comparison ? Minny have got size ,talent,toughness ,defence and goaltending at an elite level throughout lineup . Impressive !
Good, so the worst hockey player on the team is going to get more shifts in the 3rd period so he can occasionally fight and not be told by the other team to 'shut up and sit on the bench'?
That should help this team out a lot.
See ya 30th and 29th, our heart is set on 28th!
July 04 2012, 12:05PM
Besides, it's not like his signing takes away minutes from the kids....
He wont play every game either. Having Darcy around is fine. We'll need him for nasty teams like Detroit!! (~)
Now that Parise and Suter are signed up to their forties, Minny can now throw their support behind contract term limits in the next CBA.
July 04 2012, 12:13PM
Looks like Minny just became a powerhouse -WOW . Heatley will be happy now . Vegas will probably make them top odds to win Stanley now . Boy is our division getting stronger . Not much we can do to counteract what Minny did - maybe this year we might be relegated to "Minny Me " in comparison ? Minny have got size ,talent,toughness ,defence and goaltending at an elite level throughout lineup . Impressive !
Minny just moved themselves into competing for 8th territory. Look at the rest of their D, Suter becomes #1, Gilbert #2... Then Stoner? Heatley got 53 pts and is sliding, with Parise and Suter might get 60-65 next year.
They might make the playoffs but they still not on VAN, LA, DET level
Well that was certainly an insightful interview. Well worth reading. Its clear that there was a disconnect between management and the coach in terms of the types of players needed and the role that they would play.
July 04 2012, 12:18PM
Not related, did Yakupov sign an ELC before leaving?
July 04 2012, 12:36PM
I think we could all see the disconnect between management and Renney relatively early last yr. Tambellini addressed the toughness issue last summer and Renney had little use for these Eager/Hordichuk type guys right from the getgo.
Hey Jason, I couldn't agree with you more on your last comment.
I am sick and tired of the Oilers having to find someone to "answer the bell". I want this team to play such that the other team has to respond.
What Tulupov did to Eager in last year's JM Cup, I would like the Oilers forwards to do to an opposing player perhaps once every 15 games. That would keep the opposition thinking about the forecheck and taking retaliation penalties rather than letting them focus on shutting down the kids.
July 04 2012, 12:44PM
It was fairly obvious when Hall got run and Hordy asked Renney if he could go fight and was told no. It sends a message that our stars are freegame, and all of a sudden we would be better off not playing them in those games then watching them get run and doing nothing.
Not related, did Yakupov sign an ELC before leaving?
He said he would as soon as he got back, but he had to check something about "earning bazzilions of dollars in the KHL" first.
July 04 2012, 01:29PM
I am glad you restated this. There will never be an all in everyone agrees that an enforcer helps or does not help. Of course players are going to say the play the same if Laraquee is on or off the ice. If they said they play differently it is the same as saying they were scared of him and coward because he was on the ice.
There is no denying that the injury bug has hit us very consistantly since Laraque left. Some of that (the freak accidents) is obviously a coincidence, but if you look at the rein of terror that Boogard and some others inflicted on this team it is hard not to see how having someone to deal with it could help.
Hordy does not inflict the same kind of one on one fear that Laraque would in the other team's enforcer, but he is smart enough to realize that if Torres or Sarich run Hall or Eberle you don't fight that team's enforcer. You either go after that person directly or their stars. Laraque was not willing to do this when he played. He thought there was a code that heavyweights only fight other heavyweights so the fights are not unfair.
Oiler Domination to Follow -
Darce is a heart and soul guy and you can never have too many of those on a roster.
I'll admit that I don't see the need for a Hordichuk type on the roster, but if you're going to sign him at least use him. I never understood why we would have SMac or Hordy when Renney didn't seem to have any interest in using them at all. Let's make that roster spot worth our while.
This confirms what I thought of Eager, which honestly wasn't much. I understand it must suck to put your face on the line when your coach doesn't respect you, but not doing your job is no way to earn that respect.
July 04 2012, 01:47PM
it's even weirder too beaker ...when parise gets there and captain koivo won't give up his #9 jersey parise sez cool gimme 99...that's when we ARE in trouble ...Cryptonite or not these two will put minny up to the next level ...barring injuries they could...
PG............I think minny will have some ego issues........expect a slow start and internal self canibalization......
With the minny comments, I have to disagree with a lot of them. I don't for once think of Parise or Suter as primadonna's...maybe Heatley, but those 2 are good guys. Whether we like to admit it or not, those guys will make the team that much better, and they already had our number. Injuries depleted their lineup which drove a top place team out of the playoffs. If they can stay healthy they could be a force (where have I heard that before???)...
Good to see we've got a role player in Hordichuk who can spark the other role players of Eager and Sutton, so that 1 of the three can take on Minnesota's other new signing: Konopka (or Kassian if that's not the best matchup).
July 04 2012, 03:24PM
I attended the Flyers game last February where Hartnell put Paajarvi out of the game with a knee check. Hordichuk was dressed, but never got off the bench for the rest of the game.
The (acting) coach that night was Ralph Krueger.
Hordichuk is the same size as Horcoff. If you are going to have a heavy weight that is going to put some fear into the opposing rats , then get some guys with size and that can play the game a bit.... Hordichuk is not a player and he is small. Team needs tough players on at least 3rd and 4 th lines who can also play. Same with defense you need a couple guys who are going to bang and scare the forecheckers coming in.I mean hits that hurt... Smid hits, but more like a big huggy bear.Oilers 3 adn 4 th liners,[ Symth, Jones,Horcoff, Belangers, are softies to the bone.
I'm not a fan of a prescribed "enforcer", but what do I know. If Krueger thinks Hordichuk has a role on this team that's all that counts I guess.
To me the biggest deterrant to having our young guys getting run is one wicked-a$$ powerplay. Elbow Hall on the rush? BOOM! IN THE BACK OF YOUR NET SUCKAAAA!!!


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|Posted by Rick Wilkinson on June 03, 2001 at 22:42:27:
I own 2.5 acres and I am in the planning stages of putting a house on it. There is a sewer tap on the down hill side of the property but I am concerned that I may have problems with it. The area I am building the house on only has a drop of about a foot. But from there for about 300 feet it drops off steadily all the way to the end of the property. The drop is between a 1/4" to 1/2" per foot. I have been told by my Dad that he has heared that the water will outrun the solids and cause problems. I have planned to put a cleanout ever 100' or so. Do you feel this drop will cause problems
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Jews love themselves some macaroons. This has a lot to do with the fact that they contain no leavening agent and are thus perfect Passover treats. I agree with this assessment as long as we're not talking about those disgusting store bought Manischewitz macaroons. I get it--macaroons started out as almond meringue confections and slowly morphed into more substantial cookies with bits of coconut. But those almond-coconut macaroons have the weirdest consistency--dry and crumbly, but oddly sticky. The random bits of coconut flakes also give me the feeling that I'm chowing down on stray hairs. Granted, that's always a possibility, as a long-haired dog has been roaming my house for thirteen years, but it's not a quality I particularly look for or strive to create.
This is why I'm glad that coconut macaroons these days are usually 100% coconut with no almond to be found. And even though it isn't Passover, macaroons in this form have been co-opted by the Jewish masses as a way to celebrate all of our holidays, including Chanukah. Some recipes use egg whites to bind the coconut, but neither my Mom nor I have been able to get the cookies to stay together with those sorts of recipes. Instead, we've been making these macaroons for years because not only are they guaranteed to stick together, they're tasty and consist of three ingredients that always sit in our pantry. Sweetened condensed milk is our binding of choice, producing a perfect sweetness and a wonderfully chewy cookie. Because of the sugar content in the SCM and the coconut, the bottoms and tops of these macaroons also tend to caramelize, bringing another dimension to their taste. I could eat an entire batch of these plain, but decided to spruce them up a bit as they were being sent out to a few readers. If you cringe at the idea of tempering chocolate, throw some mini chocolate chips into the dough and you're good to go--it's what my mom did when I was a kid.
This recipe doesn't use the entire can of sweetened condensed milk, but the remainder is the perfect amount for a third of a recipe of Magic Cookie Bars if you don't feel like letting it go to waste.
Chocolate Dipped
Makes 24 Cookies
flaked coconut
After tempering your chocolate, dip your chocolate and shake off any excess. Let dry on a rack. If your dipping skills are as atrocious as mine, use a small rubber spatula to "paint" on the chocolate.


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JST, 1 Timothy 3:15–16.
Compare 1 Timothy 3:15–16
Note: The subtle change in the following verses emphasizes that the "pillar and ground of the truth" is Jesus Christ.
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God.
16 The pillar and ground of the truth is, (and without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness,) God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.