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Anyone else have any problems having your tossing arm to be straight up without your toss going all haywire? I'm really focusing on trying to stretch out my tossing arm so its going straight up, also helping my hips to jut out into the court, but its messing with my timing and my toss. My natural tendency is to have my tossing arm to end at about 60 degrees instead of ending straight up. Thanks.
Common problem. With your 60 degree toss you are stopping your tossing arm, somewhat abruptly, shortly after your ball release. It's almost as if you are chucking the ball, or heaving the ball, up into the air. It should be more like you are lifting the ball or placing it into the air rather than throwing into the air. Start the upward motion of the toss with the tossing hand close to your front thigh. Lift the arm up at an even, moderate pace. The speed of the tossing arm should be just fast enough to get the toss height that you desire. Release the ball just as your arm goes past parallel (to the ground). You can use your chin level or some other appropriate reference for your release. Just open your fingers to release the ball. Let your hand/fingers follow the released ball until your arm is vertical. You should not be lifting your arm in the direction of the intended target area. You could lift your arm parallel (or nearly parallel) to the baseline as many elite servers do. If this is too extreme for you, try lifting it at some intermediate angle wrt to baseline -- perhaps 30 degrees to 45 degrees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIF-UaRUd6k Execute a lot of practice tosses (w/o swinging at it). Toss so that the released ball follows a slight arc that you can catch in your outstretched hand (vertical arm). This would represent a good toss (particularly for a 2nd serve). Toss and catch in this manner until you develop a consistent toss. You might try the Federer "ice cream cone" toss. His lifts his hand so that it is more on the side of the ball rather than underneath it. This technique should help to prevent you from flipping your wrist (or bending your elbow) as you lift/release the ball. The lifting action should should be from the shoulder (w/o bending other parts of the arm).
Hmmm. After watching that I realize just how bad at tennis I am. I would love to see some slow-mo video of myself playing.
I read that the tossing arm wrist should be laid back/bent towards the index knuckle at the end of the toss. Is this supposed to it help with toss consistency? As an example, here's Djok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwdwQ29Qae0&t=20s
Djokovic does not use the ice cream toss release SA posts above, with Fed being his example. Instead he releases it with the palm under his hand like Nadal and probably the majority of tennis players. However using this type of toss, you can see the obvious anguish experienced by Nadal :wink: Biomechanics is the study of how our muscles and joints work. Biomechanics would tell us that it is difficult to maintain the hand and forearm with the palm pointing up (supinated) as we bring the ball up for a toss. In fact, I think everybody can appreciate bringing the ball up in the "ice cream toss" position feels less stressful, with the foream and wrist more relaxed. And the video of Brent Abel at the end of this post makes the great point that the feeling of stress raising the tossing arm causes many to fail to get the steep shoulder angle needed for the serve. The uncomfortable feeling in raising our arm high with the hand supinated has to do with the way the musculature, bones and joints of our arms, wrists and hand are put together. The following picture shows the most comfortable position of our hands to work which is known as the "position of function". (It is preceded by pictures of our hands/forearms in "supination" and "neutral" positions, with a picture of "supination" following. The "position of function" is how we hold the steering wheel and how we position our hands to do fine work that requires close cooperation using both hands so that the thumb and index fingers of both hands are close to one another [which is probably why our arms/forerarms/hands evolved to work this way]. Bringing the ball up in a "neutral" position is actually the most comfortable practical way of raising up a ball to toss it. (Elevating the ball in the "position of function" is not practical since the hand in that orientation would not allow the ball to be released upward.) So why don't more use the "ice cream toss"? Undoubtedly habit, as most never thought of releasing the ball from the side of their hands, as they had always released the ball from the palm of their hands when throwing it forward. So it is my guess as to why most grip the ball the same way to toss it upward. Clearly some have really good consistent tosses without using the "ice cream toss". But for those having difficulty with their toss, trying the "ice cream toss" may be in order. Tennis Serve Toss - How to Hold the Ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kynEzufNE&feature=related
All instructive and great points, SA and charliefederer. One thing I've noticed is that a slight rocking motion where the tossing hand loads up a little at the bottom of its path helps greatly with accuracy. Sure, one can also begin the toss with a completely "unloaded" arm, but I have found it to lack control. Not sure if this is just idiosyncratic, or is a general principle... could you comment on it? Thanks.
Part of a recent post by me: "Tip #2: Don't "arm" your ball toss! Huh?!!! We've all been told not to "arm" our groundstrokes and serves. Instead, the hitting arm motion should be preceded by a big body motion (coiling), to generate the initial energy in hitting the ball, with the arm swing following the reversal of the big body motion (coiling to uncoiling). So too on the toss, a big body motion to initiate momemtum followed by a reverse of the big body movement, helps get the arm going up. But in the case of the toss, the motion is not coiling, but instead first leaning into the court, then leaning back, to helps get the arm going up! Go back to that video of all the pros serve tosses. Note that all first lean into the court, then lean back. Federer's lean in and lean back is more exagerated than most, but as usual, Fed is not wasting motion here: When leaning in (pics 1,2 above), the tossing arm is going to going to be very low. When leaning back, the tossing arm is going to start to rise as the shoulders and hips go from a downward slant (pic 1 above) to no slant of the shoulders/hips (pic 2) to an upward slant (pic 3). This reversal of the shoulders/hip from a downward to upward slant provides the momentum to get your tossing arm moving upward. The result is that you don't have to work hard on your toss if you let your big body movement help supply the energy. [To those who have already noticed this "lean in" is actually "forming a bow shape" forwards, with the 'lean back" going all the way past vertical to forming the "bow shape in the opposite direction in the trophy pose - see tip #4 below - only to reverse again through the hitting motion.] Watching the video helps to emphasize the "lean in" and "lean back", and how the toss is intrinsically interwoven with getting into the trophy position: Roger Federer - Serve in Slow Motion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4PfHpKbJSI Tip #3: The tempo of how fast you lean back, from your initial lean in, determines how fast to elevate your tossing arm. Every orchestra needs a conductor, and every conductor has a baton to set the tempo of the music. Your tossing arm is should be going up at a constant speed, and your tossing arm acts as the baton to set the tempo to your serve. Tennis Serve Tossing Motion Tempo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZp90h-Ar8&feature=relmfu How fast your tossing arm movement should move comes from how fast you lean back (pic 1 to pic 2 above) in the initiation of the toss. [Lean back too fast, and your tossing arm will move up too fast, and the ball will go too high. Lean back too slow and your tossing arm will move up too slow, and ball will not be tossed high enough. Lean back "just right" and your tossing arm will move up at "just the right" speed to get your toss to the right height.]" - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6424836#post6424836
More important than technique is the ability to toss the ball exactly where you want it...even if your arm can only raise to 45 degree angles above your head. Accuracy is paramount. I haven't chased a serve toss or caught a ball in over 35 years, and my arm doesn't ever point straight up, due to injuries to the shoulders. Picture where you want the ball. Flat, top/slice, top, kick. Place it there.
Does having a vertical tossing arm automatically put you into the ideal trophy bow-shaped pose? One thing that is also hard to do is to be in that pose, up onto your toes which, if you're not used to it, will throw you off balance. Look at all pics of the pros -- they are on their toes, their arms straight up in the air, their bodies in this "cocked" bowed shape. Is this a pose that is doable for us mere mortals? The more I try to get up onto my toes like that, the more I feel I'm going to topple over.
Pointing your knees in the same direction of your toes or a bit wider could help you to keep a better balance. Also, becoming aware of how the weight of your body changes from the front foot to the back one and then to the front one again before getting into the air helps with keeping the balance under control.
^^ You are actually on the balls of your feet -- not your toes. Mere mortals can achieve this pose/position. I'm am currently 60 years old and can actually hold this position for quite a while (easily 20 seconds or longer). My balance is still decent but not really exceptional by any measure. I am primarily a lefty server but I can also hold a righty trophy pose just as long. I can do this balancing act in either a platform or a pinpoint stance. My left shoulder, left hip flexor and both knees are bad and my level has dropped quite a bit since my mid 50s (down to ~4.0). But I am still able to achieve the position without any trouble at all. Note that Roger has not yet achieved the archer's bow in the image above. (If you take a look at the 4-image sequence in CF's post above, you will see the Roger pushes his hip forward for the bow slightly later). With your weight on the balls of your feet, your heels are off the ground and your are knees bent. Your center of mass (located in your gut slightly below your belly button) should be directly over your platform (or pinpoint stance) between your feet. This should enable you to balance in the trophy position indefinitely. If you still have problems with this, try holding the pose in front of a mirror. Once you master that, try it w/o the mirror. The ultimate test is to try to hold the position for several seconds with your eyes closed. Hope this helps. .
^^^ Roger doesn't push his hip forward. He pushes the balls of his back foot against the ground (where more than 50% of his weight is resting at that moment) and as a result his hips move forward. However, the more important thing to put attention to on the photo is that Roger's knees are not at the same high level at that moment which is key for achiving balance and power.
One thing to remember in looking at still photos is that it is a mere few milliseconds in time. The trophy stage is still pretty fluid, unless your toss is so high you need to wait for it (which can cause a hitch and impair the easy flow of kinetic energy into the motion). You shouldn't be in that pose long enough to have to hold it there. Another thing to note in the photos you are seeing is the shift in the center of mass/gravity in the body, which starts on the front foot, shifts rearward and comes back to the front all in the same motion, in time with any leaning that is done. The rising to the toes is often proportional to (and compensates for) the degree of knee flexion to maintain balance, but also aids in release of kinetic energy. I've found that taking the arm to vertical after release of the toss serves two purposes: one, it creates and maintains the shoulder tilt that allows for the forceful reversal in the shoulder over shoulder "tumble" that is part of a mechanically correct serve. If your shoulders are level, then the upper part of your racquet arm will need to elevate above the plane of the shoulders, which can lead to injury with force and repetition. Second it helps create and maintain your stored kinetic energy for release. Raising your arm to vertical with your weight back will tend to force your hip forward to maintain balance, creating the "archer's bow " It also helps keep the trunk rotation and your hitting arm back a bit longer for a more forceful release. Dropping your tossing arm too soon invariably costs you your rotational energy, and many pros will tell you to leave it up as long as possible.
For the tossing arm to be straight more than arm should help as well. Control of the shoulder girdle, oblique and ab muslces, and pelvis orientation all contribute to the arm to be able to be straight in trophy position. Without all these coordinations just trying to straighten arm will cause inconsistency and loss of control and even injuries. If you wanna imitate pros, instead looking at their arms and legs look at their trunk orientation and movements first.
Note that the archer's bow is evident for some servers at the trophy phase while others do exhibit the bow until the racquet head drop (after the trophy position). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW4-7uhUjdI I'm not sure that I buy the premise that Roger has more than 50% of his weight on his back foot at the trophy phase of his serve. The bottom line is that his hips do move forward as the racquet head drops from the trophy position. Roger's "bow" is mild -- his is not really the best example of an archer's bow. The bow is usually much more evident with players that utilize a narrower platform, like Roddick, and players who employ a pinpoint stance. Sampras had a bit more of a bow that Federer but probably not as much as Roddick or Ivanisevic and other pinpointers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npxP6Jej9iE http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12_2.html
Here is another pinpointer with a very obvious archer's bow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMBSgJq_O8c&t=10s
^^^^ I was clearly refering to Roger's plataform stance. Now you are talking about pinpointer stance which uses a total different approach in terms of weight distribution. (apples to oranges kind of comparison) Because the weight distribution is different, the arche's bow is also different (more pronounced in the pinpointer stance) in order to keep the balance.
It's pretty obvious that any player can get more angular archer's bow using a pinpoint stance than he can easily get with a platform stance. Something called human biomechanics. Does that suggest which stance you should try?
It seems that you misunderstood my post. I was actually talking about both stances -- 3 if you put the Roddick/Monfils stance in a separate category. However, that discussion was not in reference to weight distribution. I was talking about the archer's bow at that point. No false apples & oranges comparisons. OTOH, I was talking specifically about Roger's platform stance when I brought up the subject of weight distribution. Before the trophy (near the start of his toss motion), his weight is more on his back foot. However, by the time he is at his trophy, knees bent, the ball has already been released and his weight has shifted forward somewhat already. At the trophy phase, elite servers will have shifted their weight forward -- some will have an equal distribution at this point while others have more weight on the front foot. I don't believe that any elite server, including Roger, will still have most of their weight still on the back foot after the ball release. Roger's hip movement (a slight "bow", if you will) happens after his trophy. .
So how do you practice the archer's bow stance if its unfamiliar to you? Can you practice this during your full service motion or should it be broken down somehow into components or steps? Its the being on your toes in the archer's bow stance thats off-balancing esp right before your racket drop and swing through. If you're off balance during this step, its hard to incorporate it for its intended purpose as part of the kinetic chain.
Tossing If you are having trouble with tossing, or just learning it, these are the points I would focus on: First off, how heavy is the ball? How much muscle or body momentum do you need to get it up? Almost NONE! I see so many people making the toss look like it's difficult ... i.e. extra movement that just complicates things and puts the body off balance. Next, where should you start from? If you start around waist level you either have to jerk your arm up to get it going, or go down first and change directions at the bottom. Instead, start with your hand in front of your leading thigh at pocket level. As raise your arm in a one-directional movement upwards at a "relaxed" speed. Arm should be straight all the way to release level, which is eye level. Your arm should continue up after release stay up so the shoulder doesn't come down too early, which will prevent yoou from being able to hit up. (Also, don't use any wrist, wrist lay-back or let the ball roll off your fingers) On the subject of arm-rise direction, I don't advise parallel to the baseline as many pros do. Of course you can learn to do it successfully that way, but if you raise your arm on the same line as your serve swing path instead, you eliminate the left to right variable from your toss and only have how high and how far into the court to control. For a right hander serving to the duece court this means that your arm would rise in the direction of the right net post, same as your hitting arm swing path. One more note. Obviously chasing a really bad toss is not advisable, so stop and try again. But when the toss is just a little off, I see a lot of players chasing less-than-perfect tosses with their upper bodies, which take them way off balance and ruins the whole serve. If you only chase a semi-bad toss with your arm and keep your body on balance, you can pretty much make any toss at least doable. MG
So I played a match tonight...and consciously tried to keep my tossing arm as parallel to the baseline as possible. After analyzing my toss I discovered that I had been about 15-20 degrees into the court when my arm was parallel to the ground. I also made a conscious effort to uncoil my upper body as my legs pushed me upwards. The result? A FANTASTIC serving night. Five aces and only 2 DFs in 12 service games, plus a lot more kick than I'm used to. Thanks, guys!
Your tossing arm more or less moving in an arc. Some say the arm is parallel to the baseline; others say don't pay too much attention to that. Either way, since your arm is not traveling in a straight line and is in the shape of an arc, making the ball travel in a curved direction. If you're tossing with your arm more in front of you, the ball is going to curve backwards; if you're tossing towards the side with your arm parallel to the baseline, the ball's going to arch towards your left (for righties). Point is, the ball is not going to travel in a straight line. This is my main problem. How to "place" the ball where you want it if the balls is not traveling in a linear direction. The problem is worse the higher you toss the ball. The ball either ends up behind my head or too far to my left or both. Release point may make a difference, but it seems that unless you release the ball early before your arm ends up on this curved path, the ball will curve, too.
^ The toss should not actually go straight upward. It should follow a slight controlled parabolic arc. Take a close look at Federer's toss -- it has a fairly significant arc. Sampras had a pretty high toss -- check the gif below which shows that he did not throw the ball straight up either. Not the height of his tossing hand when he releases the ball. You can see a similar release point with Roger (refer to the image I provided on post #2) You should be on the balls of your feet -- not on you toes. You can practice the motion, incorporating the bow with service shadow swings -- w/o the ball. Simulate the motion and see it you can hold the trophy position for a while balancing with your heels off the ground -- see if you can hold that position for 5-10 seconds to work on your balance. Perhaps the following page will help to incorporate the bow into your motion: http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/Rev%20Tennis/download/s12-2holistic.pdf
The following is reposted from an earlier thread on tossing: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=418152 The last part specifically tells how to toss further into the court, for a first serve. It also tells you how to toss it over your head for your spin serve. The intro tells how to have a consistent serve. "Check out the sequence of Sampras tossing below: Like all the pros, he tosses with his arm parallel to the baseline. Federer Murray Haas & more ball toss common threads: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIF-UaRUd6k&feature=related (The reason for this is so as the tossing arm goes up, your shoulders can be well coiled by ball release (pic 7), so you don't feel rushed getting into a trophy pose before having to start the racquet drop/swing portion of the serve.) As Pete demonstrates above, the arm is kept straight with no elbow or wrist bend. (So the arm moves only at the shoulder.) The ball is simply released when the hand reaches a point a little above the shoulder, at eye level: By having kept the arm straight with no wrist or elbow flick, but merely opening the hand to release the ball, the ball will go up and come down in a parabolic shape that resembles an upside down J (hence why they call the toss the "J" toss): As long as you bring the arm up at the same speed, follow the same path up with your arm, and release the ball at the same point, it should always go in the same place. If you want the ball to go higher, bring it up a little faster. If you want the ball to drop more past your body to the left, release it a little later. If you want the ball to drop more to the right, before it reaches your body, release a little earlier. (Reverse these directions if you are left handed.) Now for the trickier part, how to toss more into the court, or back more/over your head: If you want to toss the ball out into the court for a first serve like Sampras does above, start the toss with your arm closer to your back foot (pic 1), and as you bring the arm up, move your arm ever so slightly forward so that by the time of release, your arm is past your front foot (pic 7). [Note that at about half way through the toss in pic 3 the ball has been moved forward to a position 1/2 way between the front and back foot.] (And obviously if you wanted to toss a second serve to land directly over your head, just start bringing your hand up with the ball in between your feet (like the position the ball is in pic 3, but starting with your hand lower) and just bring it straight up between your feet. Hopefully, I've given you a way to help solve your serving woes. Oh, .... but one more thing. Even if you understand what to do, it will still take practice to really get it down."
Great thread. One issue that I run into, and that others may also have, is coping with sudden shoulder tension. At times, especially in a grueling match, the muscles in the tossing shoulder can tighten up and restrict the motion. It can actually get hard to lift lift the tossing arm all the way up. The toss is not complete and the ball can get tossed too low. I try to shake my toss arm and move the shoulder around to loosen it up but sometimes that doesn't help. I don't have a solid solution.
I videoed myself and one thing I noticed is that my tossing arm stays up too long. That is, it is still raised into the air, though not out-stretched during my backscratch phase. I've been watching some slo-mo videos of pros and see that their tossing arm is already down at their chest by this point. My question is, is this a purposeful motion to pull your tossing arm down at the right moment or should it be a natural occurrence, bc it ain't happening for me. Is there a rhythmic moment in the serve where you're consciously pulling your tossing arm down?
The leg drive initiates the reversal of the steep shoulder angle - as the left shoulder is thrown down, the tossing arm has to come down. [The racquet drop is driven by the left shoulder being thrown down, with the right shoulder going straight up.] In pic 4 Fed has his tossing arm straight up in his trophy position with his knees maximally bent. In pic 5 he has begun his leg push off as evidenced by his knee bend being slightly less, and the level of his hip and head is slightly higher than in the preceding pic. His tossing arm is beginning to fall as his shoulder angle is less steep - he is throwing his left shoulder down. [Notice this motion is also responsible for his racquet drop. By pic 6, his left shoulder is slightly lower than his right, with the result that the tossing arm is already quite low. By pic 7, his left shoulder is almost straight down and his right shoulder is straight up, with his tossing arm essentially in its final postion. My guess is that you are not getting enough vertical shoulder over shoulder action as you should be. This is a powerful motion that would drive your tossing arm down. Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury by lowering the left shoulder -TennisOne.com Editor Jim McLennan explains some serving techniques to generate power and protect your shoulder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s Pat Dougherty - The See Saw Motion The Serve Doctor expounds on the importance of the tossing arm to produce racquet head speed during the service motion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU2bFqdEnlQ


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Introduce Yourself: Sign In Here First
Introduce Yourself
Tue 16 Dec 2003
Listen up all you Dword enthuseists.
Go out on a limb and change the world. You can do it like american
hero Michael Moore a Michigander to boot!
Mon 5 Jan 2004
Im Shazia Malik, a third year film student originally from India but
majoring in Directing and Writing at the Unitec School of Performing
and Screen Arts, Auckland, New Zealand.
The reason I joined d-word was because early this year we kick off
with a doco project and I need some advice... i'll post my question
in the mentoring room...
Mon 5 Jan 2004
try and help ya out.
Wed 14 Jan 2004
I'm only 18 but have a passion for the films i watch and make, iv made only a few
documentarys to date, the best of which was about fans of cult tv & film. I traveled up
to Milton Keaynes to the collectomainia4 convention where i interviewed a host of
celebreties including many stars of the Lord Of The Rings (Elijah Wood and Andy
Serkis giving particuarly interesting interviews), Star Treck, Buffy, and many more. the
final program ran to 19 minutes and came out very well, for my first serious
documentry i was very proud. I've also shot many short films both in my private time
and for college.
Im currently doing a preproduction assignment on documentary technique so i
thought id better do some in depth resurch to see how i can imporve my ideas.
If any of you have any links to good webs site detailing popular docomentry
techniques please please please drop me reply with the address.
thank you very much... im sure ill find this place very useful!
Sat 24 Jan 2004
I'm currently filming my first documentary. My subject matter is
changing over a 12 - 14 month period of filming, and therefore I
don't have the ability to go back and reshoot something that didn't
work (creatively - not technically - that is a different challenge).
I have tried to conceive each and every possible shot I
could/should/would need at the end of 12 months, without letting the
potential of this overwhelm or dilute my focus. I'm finding this
very challenging.
When I came online today, and discovered this website, it was coming
across a road sign in a language I could read. Although the journey
will ultimately be my own, it is very cool to know that others who
have walked this same path are just a discussion forum away.
Mon 26 Jan 2004
miles west of Washington DC,) I am a author/writer with
specialty in health, sciences, and have produced 4 pieces in
video format for various clients and government on healthcare,
animal health surveillance in Africa, HIV/AIDS and other pieces. I
Started as a still photographer years ago, and continue to use
film equipment (am resisting digital sorry) with now using old
16mm Bolex which is understandable for my non digital brain!
Newest project takes me to Africa again, in a few weeks , am
very interested to learn from you experts/enthusiasts here since
this is my first project of my own (read- independent, unfunded at
this point) . Applaud everyone for their pursuits, sorry this is so
Mon 26 Jan 2004
After all, life is not digital, is it?
Tue 27 Jan 2004
for a project I am currently working on. Is there an appropriate way
to do this?
Wed 28 Jan 2004
Irish Television,RTE, and, since leaving in 1999, I have been
making international documentaries, most of them broadcast on
RTE. Please see my website, www.anynewsinc.com for further
My most recent production is 'Congo, Heart of Africa' made from
material accumulated during ten weeks travelling alone in the
Democratic Rebpubic of Congo (DRC). It tells the story of the
forgotten war in DRC where 4 million have died over the past five
years, more than in any other conflict since WW2. Seven
neighbouring African countries have been involved in a vicious
scramble for Congo's wealth - gold, diamonds, copper, cobalt,
coltan, tea, coffee, timber, tobacco, oil - with US,EU and
international companies in close attendance.
This 34 min documentary was broadcast on RTE on 18 Dec
Wed 28 Jan 2004
as well. More info at <www.d-word.com/community/>, and join at
<www.d-word.com>. It's free but, unlike The D-Word Forum, it won't be
automatic this time.
Sat 31 Jan 2004
entertainment is my thing. Currently working on an Irish project I
shot in August last year. Looking for funding to polish the
project. So glad to have found film to express the passion!
Sat 31 Jan 2004
For funding tips, be sure to read last week's conference with
commissioning editors in Europe, as well as the one we had last year
with Jan Rofekamp.
Wed 4 Feb 2004
Having come to filmmaking through the back door - bet you've never
heard a law degree being referred to as that before! - it would be
great to hear from anyone with experience of pitching and producing
their first project - oh and tips of getting funded would be great
cheers, s.
Wed 4 Feb 2004
archived here. Start with The International Pitching Forum {LINK NOT IMPORTED} for
pitching advice, then proceed to the recent Meet Commissioning Editors
in Europe {LINK NOT IMPORTED} for funding advice. And read Jan Rofekamp's
conference, after that... if you dare.
Wed 4 Feb 2004
Everyone - when you introduce yourselves, please tell us where you
are based. (Sarah is in London.)
Sat 7 Feb 2004
I'm Joe Mondello a former Cinema Studies Student from NYU
circa the late 60s and early 70s getting back to what turns
me on (groovy huh? ;) )
Just signed up for a Documentary pre-production course
at NYU and our prof recommended this website.
I look forward to participating here.
Sat 7 Feb 2004
Are there any geographical "sub-groups" here?
I'd love to meet more folks in the NYC area.
Sat 7 Feb 2004
AIVF - www.aivf.org - and DocuClub - www.docuclub.org. They hold lots
of events where you can meet other NY doc makers.
But welcome to our groovy little virtual shindig.
Sun 8 Feb 2004
do action sports with a documentary style rather than most in my world that do
it with action and music. I have had a docmentary short at Sundance about 10
years ago but have not been back(i've tired--no luck) i'm kind of loosing
interest in film festivals ----but that's is another story---they are sometimes like
high school parties it cool if you invited but now worries if not. ---I not sure how
to do this group i would love to chit chat with peers. I have finally found peers
in Action sports in surf skat snow and moto but never really found a
community in documentary---hope this works out. I shoot video and film and
cut on final cut pro. I own all my own gear and share a edit suite with a brilliant
filmmaker Tim Irwin---I could go on but I will stop and try to figure how to work
inside this group.
thank you,
Steve Olpin
Sun 8 Feb 2004
already applied for, Steve. Instructions will soon be arriving via
Tue 10 Feb 2004
originally from tasmania, australia. I've recently completed an action sports video and
am about to start a university degree in film and television, specializing in
documentary. I write, shoot, edit and produce and am eager to learn from some
seasoned professionals and maybe even share a bit of young inexperienced
knowledge. My only problem is i might have one to many ideas floating around in my
matt osborne
neige productions and unrest media
Tue 10 Feb 2004
My name is Anthony. New to the outreach side of documentary work and
beginning to learn video editing for future projects tucked away in
my head. Based out of Waltham, MA (right outside Boston).
Tue 10 Feb 2004
walls of the community, Anthony. This forum is just the tip of the
iceburg! Anyway, glad you found us.
Thu 12 Feb 2004
Like many here, I am a novice. It's a career change for me.
I had a big corporate job, and after having a "what am I doing?"
moment, walked away. I've started at the bottom and have
worked successfully on productions of other peoples projects:
I'm lucky to have connected with some very talented filmmakers.
It's kind of like a modestly paid film school for me. While I am
enjoying learning technical skills, I have yet to help craft content.
I know the best way to do this is to make a film. I have some
ideas about this, and I'm looking for a community that I can
contribute to, and learn from along the way.
So here I am.
Thu 12 Feb 2004
Maysles/Susan Froemke conference {LINK NOT IMPORTED} is one in particular you might
want to read.
Fri 13 Feb 2004
I am currently based in Kyoto, Japan. My interest is in socio-
cultural issues. I am editing what I shot in Mexico initially and
figure out what I will need to shoot when I go there this year.
Kyoto is beautiful and has lots of interesing things. But documentary
filmmaking is not its strongest point. It's really great that Doug
created such a supportive environment for documentary filmmakers. Now
I can be connected to people with whom I used to hung out, while I am
in this ancient city. Thank you.
Fri 13 Feb 2004
the film you're making? And if you have any professional experience,
or at least are completing your first film, please register for the
community: www.d-word.com/community/join.
Fri 13 Feb 2004
sure to post another intro in the Introduce Yourself topic within the
community, ok?
Mon 16 Feb 2004
I've always wanted to make documentaries but I don't really know how
and where to start.
I was hoping to pick up tips and information since I don't know
anyone in the Philippines who could help me. I know they're out
there, but I don't know where.
Mon 16 Feb 2004
look at the archived conferences and you'll get a good head start.
Welcome and good luck.
Mon 16 Feb 2004
I'm reading the archives right now, actually.
Also, I tried to join the D-Community by accident.
I didn't know it was for the experienced film-makers, sorry for the
Mon 16 Feb 2004
Regarding the current project, I shot some footage in a town in
Mexico, several years ago. I injured myself in the middle of it and
had to leave. So I am editing what I shot and developing it further.
I am focusing on women and aging. To finish it I have to go back
Fri 20 Feb 2004
I'm based in Berlin. Together with Klaus Salge, November Film, we are
producing documentaries. I am also working as a productionmanager for
At the moment we want to co-produce with a polish colleague and I
would like to get more information about the Media Plus programm for
the newcomers in the European Market, like Poland. Is there a
different in the regulation?
I just got to be a member of Cafe Utne, the whole system is new for
me, so I have to spend some time with it.
Best Regards.
Brigit Mu
Fri 20 Feb 2004
here {LINK NOT IMPORTED}. Be sure to check it out.
And you should sign up now for The D-Word Community, our forum for
documentary professionals: www.d-word.com/community/join
Sun 22 Feb 2004
My name is J. Lamar King, but you can call me Jason or J. I am
looking forward to meeting like minded individuals and sharing
knowledge. My background is in cinematography, still photography and
writing, mostly about the people and places of the great state of
Texas, my home. Documentary filmmaking is a natural extension of
that. I've done it for 15 years. In addition I've had articles
published in a few national special interest magazines. I have
completed several college level documentary and filmmaking courses
and even though I'm now over 30, I'm still eyeing that MFA.
I've been working for the last 11 months on my own production
titled "School of Eternalism." It's about Korean imigrant sculptor
Yon Sim Pak who's radical experimentation with brain science and
sculpture materials could set the art world on its ear. I have at
least 12 more months on this project. 16mm and 24p.
Also I'm in pre-pro on the tentively titled "The Devil's Arrow" which
follows a group of motorcycle enthusiasts as they attempt to rebuild
a vintage land speed record setting Triumph motorcycle that was built
in Texas but was almost completely destroyed in a fire at a British
motorcycle museum in 2003. 24p and original film elements.
That's what I like to do, make films about people who accomplish
Tue 24 Feb 2004
My name is Dale Galgozy. I am a filmmaker living in the Cleveland
Ohio area. I make short non-fiction films on the local and regional
arts. I have been obsessed with direct cinema for nearly 10 years now
and have no plans to get treatment. I work doing location sound for
many of the local video/filmmakers in the area. I produce my own
films when I can afford to.
My question to the many great artists that may read these postings.
Besides Frederick Wiseman, how many still shoot verite on real film?
I won't let go of the "film" camera; so I'm interested in hearing
from a few diehards.
Thu 26 Feb 2004
I'm alex, and I'm currently studying in a Film and media school. I'm
in Singapore and in student projects we do shoot both drama and
documentaries. I have questions about documentaries and hope to surf
around here looking for answers that we students might have in the
course of filming. This mentor thing is especially attractive since
the professionals help out and share their experiences with the
As a student, there are times when your dreams are too big for your
head and realising it might take many years. Yet it's the nicest part
about being who we are, just dreaming and taking one step at a time
to make sure that we get close to that dream. I like to hear what the
professionals say 'cos they definitely know more than we do and thus
the mentoring section is always a nice visit.
My interest in documentary is a farely recent one. I never thought
much about documentary until my course demanded that I take it up and
it's been a very good experience since then. I'm here to take a look
at the world of documentary online, because there are people from all
over the world who come here and post and it's a nice exposure as
compared to what I'm used to in our own little student's world.
Thank you.
Thu 26 Feb 2004
documentary scene in Singapore. What is it like? What films are being
Thu 26 Feb 2004
This is what I know. I know the local TV channels do produce
documentaries, we have a few tv channels, they range from
entertainment to arts entertainment to news. The arts central channel
produces documentaries, some will talk about the local arts scene,
some will focus on some festival, for example the Singapore arts
festival held in June, some focus on the artist and the displays of
their works, etc. For the chinese and english channels, there are
documentaries that focus on life in Singapore and the issues that
concern us, the range is wide, from healthcare to social isssues to
youth culture to crime etc..
Mostly I feel the TV industry caters to the needs of the public, at
certain times there are certain documentaries to inform and educate
the public. For example, last year we had the SARS virus, so there
are documentaries and news coverage on it which I believed is
neccessary. News and documentaries covered the issues of healthcare
and some interviewees talked about the discrimination they faced
because they chose to stand by their profession. Some also showed the
reactions of the public due to the quarantine, it was a sensitive
issue then and still is.
I don't know much about the indie scene though, my apologies.
Thu 26 Feb 2004
luck in your studies.
Mon 1 Mar 2004
I am very new to documentary film. In an attempt to gain
knowledge and advice, I joined this site. Hopefully this isn't the
fanciful idea of a 22 year old. I really want to get started and
have no idea where. Anyway, hello and thank you for this wonderful
Tue 2 Mar 2004
a good starting point ;-)
I recommend you start right in by reading some of the confererences
we've held and have archived here. Should take a while.
Wed 3 Mar 2004
I'm so excited to have found this community and know there will be tons to learn here. I'm about to embark on a documentary project after a long hiatus from filmmaking that dragged me through the muck of high-tech and landed me in the funeral business, which is the subject of my project.
I'm really looking forward to reading the posts and discussions here and would always greatly appreciate any information and suggestions anyone has.
Thanks in advance,
Wed 3 Mar 2004
specific info or advice there. and welcome.
Thu 4 Mar 2004
I live in Atlanta, and previously spent 12 years in Florida working
in broadcast & corp TV ( mostly as a news videographer and editor)
Then switched to writing and editing corporate video, shooting
freelance, and made a half hour doc about 1930's and 1940's aviators
and their aircraft. Becoming frustrated with distribution and the
lack of money I left TV to become a web programmer from '93 to 2001.
Now I have just produced another corp sales video on DV and edited a
musician demo. I am developing a couple of non-fiction concepts that
I want to take to cable distribution. I am trying to learn
everything I can about the business side because that was always my
problem in the past. DV solves half the problem of creating your own
docs. But distribution is always the big question.
I'm here to learn or share whatever I can. It's good to have a way
to talk to other Documentary/Reality TV makers.
Ed Hill
Fri 5 Mar 2004
distribution. Happy reading ;-)
Sat 6 Mar 2004
Just wanted to say hello and thanks for providing such a useful
site. I'm working on a film dealing with women that are abuse
survivors and outside of making a film about it, we are offering a
workshop for abuse survivors where they will be able to learn about
video medium as a way to express themselves and further their healing.
I am in Kentucky of the U.S.
Just thought I'd say hello.
Sat 6 Mar 2004
you're doing. Happy if we can help out in some way.
Sat 6 Mar 2004
Well, I guess the biggest help is passing the site around....we're
also collecting donations of products and what not for our
or post a message of encouragement on the message board for the
survivors who post there
Thanks for the offer!
Sun 7 Mar 2004
Tue 9 Mar 2004
My name is Kate Slovich. I'm a producer, mainly focusing on
anthropological documentaries. I'm currently producing a documentary
on inner city education. I'm hoping to pick up some tech and
equipment tips on this forum, specifically relating to audio.
The director has asked me to provide a suggested equipment list and
the tech side of the biz isn't my strong suite as a producer. I'd
love any suggestions that the group could give me so I can present a
great proposal.
We're working with a $10,000 equipment budget (not including DV cam)
and we'll be shooting in inner city schools, homes and neighborhoods
over the next two years. Thanks in advance for the help.
Tue 9 Mar 2004
you certainly qualify: www.d-word.com/community/join
Sun 21 Mar 2004
Wow...what a great site!!! Im new to documentary film and have been searching for a way
to get into contact with others who have experience and passion for documentary
filmmaking.....i could use all the knowledge and advice I can get!!! Im a 21 yr old student
who is about to graduate in 2 months and move back home to NYC where i will enter the
"real world." Im quite overwhelmed and dont know where to start, so if anyone has any
advice...please dont hold back!!!!. i look forward to talking to many of you and changing
the world through revealing truth!!
much peace and love,
Mon 22 Mar 2004
My name is Samuel Michon. I'm a production designer and
visual artist based in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
I've been wanting to move into documentary filmmaking
for quite some time and have gone to all the major
festivals, like IDFA, for years. I've been doing
research for a pet project of mine since '98, on the
development of the Paddington neighborhood in London
(and how domestic travel by rail has influenced the
area, it was one of the first major hubs in the UK) -
not a lot of shooting has gone into it yet though,
nor do I see the production taking flight soon.
I am however in the middle of securing capital for a
documentary on the resistance that quite a few foreign
exchange students (mainly from teh US and Scandinavia)
are experiencing with the teachers and management of
several universities in The Netherlands. There's plenty
of action there, with lawsuits and whatnot, but above
all, a personal story of one Jewish-American exchange
student foreign to Dutch language, culture, and
legislation - who is now trying a David-and-Goliath case
against the education boards, exposing this dire
situation (which because of the fragility of the matter
I can't expand on at this stage). I have the privilege
to move in before the big media do, and document it.
The biggest challenges for me in this project, I have
found, are scripting it in advance - staying on top of
what all the different outcomes can be - and
(in a trial-run) shooting in a way so that it's not just
talking heads, but actually *showing* the story.
I'm creative though, I've come up with some solutions to
that - even though I bet they're unorthodox, because
I haven't directly jumped for the aid of more
experienced doccers (as yet).
Anyhow, I've been perusing these message boards for a
while now, and it's been a real help. There's so much to
making a documentary, and while I am lucky to have a
light and sound guy, it's challenging to do the combo of
writer-director-DP-producer all at the same time
(I don't even want to think about editing; I already
feel way too content to have found a decent soundtrack
by a well-known artist who stands behind the project -
living the illusion of thinking I'll have sufficient
perspective after wrapping that I can single-handedly
edit the piece and end up with something that people
will want to see, is unforgiveable, I know.)
Great forum, I will definitely keep coming around
looking for clues here.
(btw, for some reason I can't get auto-wrap to work
on Safari 1.2 - so my apologies for the bump-'n-erase
earlier - this is a manually wrapped post.)
Mon 22 Mar 2004
sympathetic ear. Feel free to ask questions in the Mentoring topic
any time.
Wed 24 Mar 2004
I've been working as an asst. editor for the past couple years in a
post facility, and have also made some short personal films which
have played at a few festivals.
Over the last several months I've embarked on a rather large &
long-term project (my first) - a documentary about this wonderfully
talented Cuban classical pianist/cabaret singer who is a transgender
person living in San Francisco. At the moment I'm fearing I've
bitten off more than I can chew, but look forward to perusing the
forums here to seek wisdom, inspiration, advice and ... sanity?
Thanks for hosting this!
Wed 24 Mar 2004
have you aboard.
Thu 1 Apr 2004
I am a 17year old filmmaker. I have several fictionfilms( and stille
are), but I have always had a passion for documentaries.
I am making my first real atempt at a doc. as I am writing this.
I believe in the "personal-documentary" and one of my favourite films
are FAMILY, a danish documentary about a young filmmaker trying to
find his roots.
That was it.
I hope I will learn alot in here.
Thu 1 Apr 2004
Don't listen to Doug, Maureen - sanity is out of stock here. :-)
What's the subject of the personal doc you have in mind, Christian?
Thu 1 Apr 2004
My name is Gary Mack,
I live in Washington state, USA.
Just finishing up a documentary about Therapeutic Riding for Special Needs
Children. This project was very interesting and educational.
The documentary was shot with a Canon XL1s and edited in Final Cut Pro.
I enjoy documentary work involving the outdoors and horses.
I'm in the planning stages of a doucumentary about the history and curent use
of an area located in southwest Washington called Indina Heaven.
Alway looking for documentary ideas and production techniques.
Looking forward to reading about your projects!
Fri 16 Apr 2004
three fictional short films. I am currently working on my first
documentary about the paranormal and am looking for information and
guidance from any resources I can find on the net.
This site has been the best resource I have found so far.
I look forward to learning!
Fri 30 Apr 2004
First, an introduction. I am an independent producer working on my first
documentary (I've worked in corporate video for many years). It is about
fragile X syndrome, which is the leading known cause of inherited mental
disability and autism. There is a load of information about the doc on our web
My question is this: does anyone know where I can find legal info about the
circumstances under which I need releases from people who will appear in
our doc? I've been getting releases from primary participants (interviewees,
etc.), but what about people who are at a street festival, for example, or in a
grocery store, that end up on-camera? Do I have to get releases from them
too? Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.
Fri 30 Apr 2004
i make sure to get releases from anyone who talks on camera in a
visible way. i don't worry about background people, unless the
situation being filmed might cause embarrassment.
but that's me. others might be more paranoid.
Mon 3 May 2004
experience and advice. Now I just have to figure out where to post
my questions to suck you brains - thank you for this forum! - I've
been lurking - reading and absorbing all the archives in preparation
for my fist real doc directing challenge. The biggest thing I have
noticed is that the questions that have been circling around my head
are questions that can be asked - that as a neophyte doc director - I
can ask anything and have it answered with respect - way to go D-
Word! You are an anomily.
So who am I? Worked in video and television for 20 years - most for
non-profit aboriginal orgs. and their counterparts - the last 14
years in the Canadian Arctic with the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation
and it's susiduaries in every concievable production capacity - now
have started a doc production company with a producer and we are
working to market this baby. I have focused on directing for the
last 5 years and it is where I was born to be - anyway - looking
forward to participating in many discussions - asking lots of
questions - thanks again for the forum - Kath
Mon 3 May 2004
register for the d-word community, where you can really suck some
major d-brains: www.d-word.com/community/join.
Mon 10 May 2004
i'm getting starting in documentary in new york this summer. i'm
here to learn about the art and trade of documentary filmmaking and
seek advice from the more-seasoned folks participating in the forums
here. looking forward to talking with all of you!
Sat 19 Jun 2004
Just a note to say hello. I am embarking on my first documentary, and
am quite nervous, but believe in my subject. I look forward to
talking with and getting to know you all!
Wed 23 Jun 2004
I thought it would be interesting to do this as a collaborative project with shooters across the country contributing from activities in their communities and pooling all the footage.
If you'd like to participate, please send me an e-mail to email@example.com.
This seems to dovetail nicely with the D-Word War and Peace project, so perhaps we can work it into that.
I'll be posting a call for participants in the appropriate thread here. I apologize for the spamming, but I just found this site and want to get this project started. I'll be more of a participant in the future.
Jeff Oswald
Wed 23 Jun 2004
protests or, as it were, is protesting the protests. I mean, if
someone is interested in participating it's always good to know what
the project is about.
Tue 29 Jun 2004
Word and introducing me to people from here, so I figured it was
time I got on the stick. I'm the assistant director of the Center
for Social Media at American University, and work with a myriad of
festivals. I'm also working on two short films now (more on that
later, I suppose)! Do members read these newbie postings? All the
best, Agnes Varnum
Tue 29 Jun 2004
want to join the community: www.d-word.com/community/join.
Wed 30 Jun 2004
based out of London but originally from the States (New Orleans).
I've just completed principal photography on a feature-length
documentary entitled Tokyo Cowboys (www.tokyocowboys.com). The film
follows a group of long-term residents for 18 months as they
negotiate themselves around the post modern urban frontier that is
Tokyo. I'm looking for completion funding so that I can edit the 450
hours of footage that I've managed to rack up. I plan to start
editing in August and finish at the end of this year. I graduated
from the London Film School after spending 7 years in Tokyo working
as a writer.
Thu 1 Jul 2004
international marketplace" forum here {LINK NOT IMPORTED} - as well as jan and
diana's 45-pg. report (see the banner link). the info is still very
Thu 8 Jul 2004
I would like to thank the D-WORD for this interesting forum, and
also thank all the contributors. I am not a documentary filmmaker
but would like to seek some advice on how to create a documentary.
do I need any licenses? as for the equipments I know I 'll need some.
I am Moroccan residing in the US. I used to work in the social work
field, responsible for social activities such as violence against
women, child abuse, Rape, Divorce, Prostitution, traditions, etc. We
conducted various researches, the only thing back there we didn't
have the equipment and techniques to create a professional
documentary films. Actually I have a limitted badget,tons of
experiences and ideas, optimism,guts, Languages ( speak
Moroccan/Egyptian/Middle Eastern Arabic, Tamazight, French, English
and some spanish. my aim is not only dealing with social issues but
cultural, political and religious ones. I welcome anybody who shares
the same ideas and ambitions.
sp please what would you recommand of creating a documentary film
for a novice person? Any information would be so appreciated.
Thu 8 Jul 2004
course? That would seem the obvious first step. Good luck.
Thu 8 Jul 2004
production courses, simply because I don't know where to get them.
btw do you recommend any book or web site etc? thanks in advance.
as for conducting researches/surveys, writing reports, interviewing
people, dealing with the goverment administrations etc I do have
some experiences and knowledge.
good luck to you too dbblock.
Thu 8 Jul 2004
recommending a production course. I would recommend that before a
book or website because you will probably benefit by having access to
the equipment and others who are doing the same thing you are. Very
often you can find cheap, basic production courses at your local
public access television station or community college. This might be
a good place to start. Here are some links to some public access
stations in the U.S.:
Fri 9 Jul 2004
helpful. I live in Fayetteville, Arkansas and that community access
television building is not that far from where I live. I am going to
go ahead and contact them. I eally do appreciate your help Erica and
everybody who contributes in this forum.
have a great evening.
Wed 14 Jul 2004
student about to embark on a documentary about the 43 million
uninsured people in this country. Yes, I've heard that Michael Moore
is making his next film about the U.S. healthcare system, and I
figure him drawing attention to the issue can only help.
Anyway, I have a very basic camera (Sony PDx10) and an Azden wireless
mic, and a bunch of friends willing to help out. I'm looking for
tips on common beginner mistakes, and any suggestions that you
grizzled veterans would be kind enough to throw my way. Thanks!
Thu 15 Jul 2004
If your question in the forum was addressed to me. I am so sorry to
tell you that I am a novice too and don't know much technically
about film documentaries, I've just start taking classes about the
production etc. but I do have some experiences in documentation and
conducting researches and surveys. so my advice to you is to put
everything on the paper first.
- Write a script about your subject
-divide your script to different scenes
- Make some researches on your subject (if somebody has already done
-Human resources (make sure to get some commitments from people who
will help you not only verbally but also written in return to give
them credits or something like that.
- Financial resources (who is your sponsor, funding etc have you
gotten any written
Assurance etc.
-Technical resources (is your equipment audio-visual are operating
properly and professionally? are you or do you have any reliable
people who knows well about directing, lighting, sound etc?
also you might need some authorizations, I don't know about the US
but in Morocco you will need the authorization of Moroccan
cinematographic center to start filming then you need the music
clearance authorization from the copyright center, if you are going
to use somebodys music in your documentary.
Finally I always urge newbies like me if they believe in the subject
to go for it.
Good luck
Thu 15 Jul 2004
Some have been discussed in The Mentoring Room: Ask the Working Pros.
Fri 16 Jul 2004
I am a beginning film maker living in the Houston (Soon to be Austin)
A partner and I are about to embark on a documentary journey that I
am pretty excited about.
I was given the link to this site by someone in the Austin film group
(A yahoo group.)
I am totally looking forward to reading these forums and asking
questions and learning in general!
Fri 16 Jul 2004
Obviously you can't talk to 43 million uninsured people so find one
or a few who can serve as representative of the whole. Think about a
way to surprise us and tell your story in a way that is different
from how you would see it on the evening news or if Michael Moore
were telling it. How are the uninsured having an impact on our
economy in ways we don't usually think of (i.e., beyond emergency
rooms being used for primary care or mothers choosing welfare over
work because at least their kids will get some kind of health
Identify your audience from the start. No film can be marketed to
everyone, so think about whether you are preaching to the choir or
trying to influence legislators, medical professionals, small
business owners, etc. Are you trying to encourage change in one
community, one state or the country as a whole?
In terms of production, if your friends have no experience in film,
count on them to help with ideas, production assistance, outreach,
and helping to keep you motivated. Ideally get a real cameraperson.
If you shoot it yourself, practice a lot first (maybe doing some pre-
interviews with potential subjects) and invest in a good tripod. And
do get an experienced soundman. The biggest mistake of many
beginners is trying to do too much yourself when you really need to
focus on directing. So-so camerawork is forgiveable for a compelling
topic. Bad sound is not.


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Results 31 to 34 of 34
A GenWhy? Administration would make many people happy.
So long to:
1. DoE
6. Department of the Interior
7. Department of Commerce
8. Department of Agriculture
14. The criminalization of marijuana
Just saved a lot of money.
With that said, yes the Department of Education should go. Let the states deal with it. Simple things in life...A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. Ayn Rand
Power Point Ranger
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Posts
- 3,269
09-11-2012, 01:04 PMReally can't find fault with what you say.
So, why would you be opposed to getting the feds out of the education directing business?
While you answer that, consider this:
Mississippi, who is at the bottom of the ACT scores, is one of only 8 states who require that all students take the test. All the rest of the states only test those who think they will be going to college.
There are a lot of meatheads in Mississippi. It will come as no surprise to you that the vast majority of meatheads have children who are also meatheads. (A meathead is a habitually minimal performer)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Posts
- 2,838
09-11-2012, 01:38 PMI agree with most of your list, but I would reform the EPA and FDA but keep them to narrow missions. Just like we *do* need some level of federal security apparatus (although nowhere near how large it is today), I think it makes sense to protect people from dirty air/water (polluting water tables, pumping garbage into the air) and it also makes sense to protect people from contaminated baby milk formula (China recently had a huge scandal with this).
The agencies I really don't like are the ones that protect us from non-threats, or the ones that protect us from ourselves. Dept of Education comes to mind, especially because most states have their own state-level DoE. If we really want statistics on how different states' educations rank up at a national level, there are probably private corporations that we can just contract that work to. Its in each state's best interest to have good education programs, because good education means skilled labor/talent which attracts jobs to the area. Also, middle class parents want to work in areas with public schools which is further incentive. So I don't understand what the DoE is supposed to even do.
From Wikipedia: The primary functions of the Department of Education are to "establish policy for, administer and coordinate most federal assistance to education, collect data on US schools, and to enforce federal educational laws regarding privacy and civil rights."
The ONLY thing in this mission which is remotely valid to justify government involvement is enforcing privacy and civil rights, but you don't need a cabinet level department for this.
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Posts
- 10,192
09-11-2012, 04:58 PMI have long maintained that we have paid a huge price for some well intended but poorly executed ideas in education. One of which was "Every Kid To College". Of course at the time I had a most elitist nationalist take on that. I saw the US as the first post industrial society and I really thought it was possible for every kid (from every background) to end up in a white collar job. My excuse for this stupidity was twofold: I somehow imagined that there would still be a cooking and cleaning class of people in the US, and I was only a teenager at the time.
Every kids to college was a huge mistake. Some kids aren't college material, and others simply don't want to work in an office. The destruction of our vocational schools was a huge mistake.
But the "new way" wasn't the only crime committed. Long before "Every kid to college." , many school systems had started using vocational schools as reformatories. That was dead wrong and predates the 1960's by at least 30 years.
I see some oversight role for the federal government because IMO the educational systems which are testing better than ours tend to be a little more top down than county or municipal school systems. Germany's schools are organized at the state level, and Finland is national. I think that both Finland and Germany (from what I have read on Wikipedia) have some designs we would do well to copy.While you were hanging yourself , on someone else's words
Dying to believe in what you heard
I was staring straight into the shining sun
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Toys In The Attic | [ Sizes: Orig | Large | Med | Small | Thumb ] | |
Shirley following the nice splitter portion of Toys In The Attic (5.9) on Smith's Christian Brothers formation. Funky route that ends with (crux) a downward traverse under a roof to anchors (couple years back in winter). | Image Data Image Type(s): Rock Climbing |


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The Zagat Review
Bringing a DIY spirit to the dining table, this yakiniku chain outpost in Midtown offers barbecue with a Japanese twist. Accented with classic dark-wood decor, the group-friendly setting features spacious tables topped with their own grills, ready-made for cooking marinated cuts of meat that complement an assortment of specialty sauces and imported beers.
Zagat reviews are compiled from individual user reviews. Write your review.Write your review.
510 Gray Street | Map
Houston, Texas 77002


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This should come as a great relief to anyone planning a quantum computer self-build: wires still conduct electricity and obey key laws of classical physics even when they're built at the nanoscale. Researchers at Purdue and Melbourne universities used chains of phosphorus atoms inside a silicon crystal to create a wire that's just four atoms wide and a single atom high -- 20 times smaller than the previous record-holder and infinitely narrower than anything you'd find at Newegg. The video after the break almost explains how they did it.
This electric wire is four atoms thick, and you thought speaker cable was fiddly (video)


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More About KIERAE
Visit My SparkPage Send Me SparkMail
Recipes I've Shared:
Cooked rhubarb sauce that is sugar free. Great to mix in yogurt or add to oatmeal!
High fiber side dish made with whole wheat noodles. You can change the cheeses to fit your tastes.
This is another take on the Greek dish, Spanakopita. The spinach, herb and feta flavor combination works well in lasagna form as it does in phyllo pie form. You could easily replace some or all of the spinach with chard or kale to change things up a bit. This would also make a great appetizer
My favorite vegetarian/vegan bbq recipe using whatever sauces I had remnants of in my refrigerator!
You can prepare this recipe with pork or beef; adjust the seasonings to taste (cooking times remain the same).
Nakji Bokum is a very spicy octopus dish enjoyed by many Koreans. Different variation of this dish do exist as the octopus can be substituted with squid for less chewy texture and taste. Some may find this dish too spicy even diluted with rice that accompanies this dish.
A light whole wheat pasta salad packed with fiber. Great served over greens and chopped tomatoes for a complete meal.
Delicious chunks of paneer are marinated in a spicy yogurt mixture and then fried, roasted or broiled. I used them in a whole wheat pita stuffed with spinach and tomatoes. Can serve with a tomato based gravy, on a bed of rice, with some stir-fried vegetables, or eat as is for a tasty snack.
Recipes I've Rated:
- Apple Cobbler
- Chile Verde
- Oven or Microwave Spaghetti Squash Spaghetti
- Caramelized Pears with Toasted Almonds and Yogurt
- Easy Peanut and Sesame Noodles
- Stuffed Portobello Mushrooms on the Grill
- *Greek Salad - SB (Phase 1)
- 20-Minute Chicken Creole
- Feta & Spinach Egg Whites
- 15-Minute Chili
- Guilt-less Apple Celery Salad
- Fish with Cucumber Sauce
Recipe Collections I've Shared:
Kierae's Healthy Finds & Revamps Collection of my personal recipes, revamps of some favorites, and some Spark Recipes I have found interesting. |
Kierae's Healthy Finds & Revamps |


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COMPASS MAGAZINE July 2013
(04) 2471-2218 393, DaDun Rd, West Dist. Hours: 9 am-9 pm 1-drink minimum. Wi-Fi available. Cash only. No service charge. Parking available.
The front section of this charming, attractive, multipurpose store is a clothing shop, with an exquisite cafe in the back and a hair salon on the second floor. Tree offers a variety of single-origin gourmet coffees, special blend coffees, vegetable and fruit juices, light meals, waffles and other items. Coffee beans and a drip-coffee bag packaging service are also available. --By Ruby Wu, translated by Erica Lin, photos by Alec Fairbanks
A. Thai Roasted Chicken Salad (NT$160)--Chicken thigh meat is first marinated with Italian herbs and soy sauce, roasted, arranged atop lettuce in a salad bowl with tomatoes and a hard-boiled egg, and drizzled with refreshing Thai sweet-and-spicy dressing. Tree Coffee cups hold fragrant cappuccinos.
B. A signature dish here, French Toast (NT$150), has two thick pieces of toast dipped in white sauce, filled with ham, sprinkled generously with cheese, and toasted till crispy.
C. The walls of this cozy shop are covered with European street scenes hand-painted by owner Ms. Xie's cousin.
See our Taiwan personals.


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Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state of the United States, has been hospitalized with a blood clot Sunday night, the State Department announced.
"Philippe Reines, a deputy assistant secretary, said in the statement that the clot stems from a concussion Clinton sustained several weeks ago," said NBC News. "Reines said that Clinton, 65, is being treated with anti-coagulants at New York–Presbyterian Hospital in Manhattan. She will be monitored there for the next 48 hours, he said."
Clinton received the concussion in early December after fainting during what was described as a bout of the flu. During the illness, she canceled a trip to Morocco.
"Her doctors will continue to assess her condition, including other issues associated with her concussion," Reines said. "They will determine if any further action is required."
After news of Clinton's fainting in early December, the State Department said she was recovering at home, according to NBC News. Her doctors also released a statement at the time:
"Secretary Clinton developed a stomach virus, leading to extreme dehydration, and subsequently fainted. Over the course of this week we evaluated her and ultimately determined she had also sustained a concussion. We recommended that the Secretary continue to rest and avoid any strenuous activity, and strongly advised her to cancel all work events for the coming week. We will continue to monitor her progress as she makes a full recovery."
According to NBC News, Clinton also fainted back in 2005 during a speech in Buffalo, New York. At the time, she was also complaining of a stomach virus. The secretary of state has been on the sidelines since first complaining of the illness.
"The medical setback comes as Clinton is wrapping up her busy tenure as secretary of state, during which she has logged more than 400 travel days and nearly a million miles," said CNN. "She plans to step down from the post if and when Sen. John Kerry — President Barack Obama's choice to replace her — is confirmed by the Senate."
Reines did not say where the blood clot was located.
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Publisher Biography
Dr. Eugene Koprowski is a medical author and a doctor in private practice. He completed his medical training at The Institute of Psychiatry, Neurology and Neurosurgery, at King's College, University of London, and at The Stanford University School of Medicine. His undergraduate education was completed at Northwestern University and he earned a master's degree at The University of Chicago . Dr. Koprowski is a behavioral neurologist and psychotherapist whose original medical research has been published in the Lancet Neurology (online), European Psychiatry, The Journal of Mental Health Nursing, and Acta Clinica Croatica, among others.
He was a contributor to Fox News Channel's FoxNews.com, reporting on medical news developments from 2006-2014, and earned an Emmy Nomination from the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences (NATAS) for his work in 2008. Previously, he reported on science and technology for United Press International (UPI), Forbes magazine, The Wall Street Journal (online edition), CBS Newsradio/WBBM AM, and PBS TV's weekly series, TechnoPolitics, seen on 300 PBS stations in the U.S. and on Voice of America in Europe. He earned an investigative reporting award for his science reporting from the Associated Press Editors in 1988. He is the author of Nanotechnology in Medicine: Emerging Applications (McGraw Hill, 2012); The Encyclopedia of Health Services Research (Sage Publishing, 2009); and Done With Diabetes (Constitutional Health Publishing, 2016). He was a public affairs officer in the U.S. Navy, where he earned the National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) for service in the War on Terror. There, he reported on Navy medicine and health and welfare projects for military publications and the Internet. Additionally, he served as a health care policy advisor on Medicare and Medicaid policy to Virginia Governor Robert F. McDonnell from 2010-2014.


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Happy 450th birthday William Shakespeare. Your plays are still the pinnacle, your poetry among the finest and many phrases you coined are still in wide usage.
Sixth formers who loathe the name Hamlet, apologies, but there is just no escaping the Bard. His influence on the English language has stood the test of time thus far, with little sign of relenting.
Echelons of British culture aside, even those who "don't do Shakespeare" speak his words in their daily lives. Most of us will have quoted the playwright thousands of times without knowing it.
Ever been "in a pickle" or had "too much of a good thing"? Perhaps friends have "eaten (you) out of house and home" or had you "in stitches" over a joke.
These are just a handful of well-used sayings that come courtesy of Shakespeare (see below for more).
It is often not clear whether a word or phrase was already in existence in Shakespeare's lifetime or if he invented it. Regardless, his plays often provide us with the earliest use of many.
More words and phrases coined by the Bard
- "For goodness sake" - Henry VIII
- "Neither here not there" - Othello
- "Mum's the word" - Henry VI, Part II
- "Eaten out of house and home" - Henry IV, Part II
- "Rant" - Hamlet
- "Knock knock! Who's there?" - Macbeth
- "All's well that ends well" - All's Well That Ends Well
- "With bated breath" - The Merchant of Venice
- "A wild goose chase" - Romeo and Juliet
- "Assassination" - Macbeth
- "Too much of a good thing" - As You Like It
- "A heart of gold" - Henry V
- "Such stuff as dreams are made on" - The Tempest
- "Fashionable" - Troilus and Cressida
- "What the dickens" - The Merry Wives of Windsor
- "Puking" - As You Like It
- "Lie low" - Much Ado About Nothing
- "Dead as a doornail" - Henry VI, Part II
- "Not slept one wink" -
Cymbeline- "Foregone conclusion" - Othello
- "The world's mine oyster" - The Merry Wives of Windsor
- "Obscene" - Love's Labour's Lost
- "Bedazzled" - The Taming of the Shrew
- "In stitches" - Twelfth Night
- "Addiction" - Othello
- "Naked truth" - Love's Labour's Lost
- "Faint-hearted" - Henry VI, Part I
- "Send him packing" - Henry IV
- "Vanish into thin air" - Othello
- "Swagger" - Henry V
- "Own flesh and blood" - Hamlet
- "Truth will out" - The Merchant of Venice
- "Zany" - Love's Labour's Lost
- "Give the devil his due" - Henry IV, Part I
- "There's method in my madness" - Hamlet
- "Salad days" - Antony and Cleopatra
- "Wear your heart on your sleeve" - Othello
- "Spotless reputation" - Richard II
- "Full circle" - King Lear
- "There's the rub" - Hamlet
- "All of a sudden" - The Taming of the Shrew
- "Come what, come may" - Macbeth


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» Lightweight Bikes | » Features | » Previews & reviews | |
» Road » Hardtails » Full Suspensions » Singlespeeders |
Frame: | Fat Chance Yo Eddy | 2098 g |
Fork: | RockShox SID SL '02 | 1324 g |
Headset: | Chris King NoThreadSet w/ Campagnolo Record cap (10 g) | 119 g |
Headset Spacers: | Woodman Carbon (10 and 12 mm) | 10 g |
Stem: | Extralite UltraStem, Ti bolts | 109 g |
Handlebar: | Easton EC90 3° | 99 g |
Grips: | Titec Pork Rinds (cut) | 9 g |
Saddle: | Selle Italia SLR | 149 g |
Seatpost: | Thomson Elite 29.4/350 mm (custom cut) | 220 g |
Seat Binder: | ? | ? g |
Front Derailleur: | Shimano XTR FD-M952 TS, TP, Ti bolts | 108 g |
Rear Derailleur: | Shimano Dura-Ace RD-7700 w/ Ti bolt | 193 g |
Shifters: | SRAM 9.0 SL/Plasma 9 speed | 152 g |
Brake Levers: | Avid Speed Dial Ultimate | 150 g |
Crank Arms: | Cook Bros. E2 compact spider 175 mm | 443 g |
Chain Rings: | Action-Tec Ringleader 20T., Specialites TA 32/42T. | 119 g |
Chain Ring Bolts: | QBP Alloy inner + outer) | 13 g |
Crank Fixing Bolts: | SRP Alloy (9 g) with Cook Bros. dust caps (6 g) | 15 g |
Bottom Bracket: | Action-Tec Ti 107 mm, Enduro bearings | 136 g |
Cassette: | Shimano Dura-Ace CS-7700 11-23T. | 158 g |
Chain: | SRAM PC-89R HollowPin | 265 g |
Brakes: | Avid Single Digit Ultimate | 364 g |
Skewers: | Salsa Flip Off Titanium | 84 g |
Hubs: | Chris King Classic | 379 g |
Rims: | Mavic X517 Ceramic | 784 g |
Spokes & Nipples: | Wheelsmith XL14/DB14-15, Al nipples | 310 g |
Rim Tape: | Ritchey WCS | 6 g |
Tubes: | Maxxis Flyweight | 186 g |
Tyres: | Continental Twister Supersonic | 680 g |
Cables & Housings: | Gore Ultralight/Gore Ride-On | 120 g |
Pedals: | Speedplay Frog stainless | 254 g |
Bottle Cage Bolts: | Flat head short stainless microscrews | 3 g |
Total: |
9052 g |
The ultimate steel frame in my opinion is a frame made with the right
tubing, a lightweight design, the right geometry and top cable routing.
It also needs to have that old-school top quality feel. So far I had three
options: the Salsa ŕ la Carte, the Ibis Mojo and the Fat Chance Yo Eddy.
Since Fat City Cycles was closing their business, I could get my hands
on one of the last made, in the stunning colour Hot Lava. Since it's the
only one of the three with top cable routing and has the classic East Coast
geometry, a decision was easily made: the Fat Chance. In the early
nineties this was the ultimate steel hardtail with nothing but top remarks from
all the magazines. This model is made with the 10th anniversary seamed True
Temper 4130 chrome-moly tubing, using a more state-of-the-art heat
treatment and slightly thinner seatstays. A matching fork was easy to find: it
needed to have an air-spring, easy adjustability, light weight, lockout and it
had to look good too. I took the 2002 SID SL in black.
For the components I tried to find one of the lightest on the market
with an old school feel to match the frame. The Action-Tec BB, Cook cranks and
Salsa Flip-off are only a few examples of components that have been around
since the early days. Also the short cage derailleur was a must, since I never
understood the need of a long cage. When using gears with a maximum
spread it might come in useful, but not for me. The gears are a close copy of
Suntour's old Microdrive, with 20/32/42 rings and an 11-23 cassette
(Suntour had a 11-24). The SRAM PC-89R chain is a must have with the cut-out
links, but do not use the Powerlink: use a regular chaintool instead. The
shifters are custom made from two sets: the SRAM Plasma and the 9.0 SL with the
same housing. The Plasma works with a Dura-Ace 9-speed derailleur, the 9.0SL
front shifter has friction instead of three fixed positions. I took the
Plasma twist-grip out of it's housing and placed it in the 9.0 SL: nice
and light. The pedals are Speedplay Frog with stainless axle. Titanium is
lighter, but I heard that these are not as durable.
The post and stem had to be Thomson, since their design is superb and
they are light yet very stiff. True, there are lighter stems and posts
available (e.g. FRM, ITM, Ritchey WCS), but the flawless works on the Thomson is
legendary. On the post I decided to place the new Selle Italia SLR.
Since I still have a classic Flite, I can always swap seats, but so far no
complaints. The bars are Easton CT-2: light, shock absorbing and they
come with a lifetime warranty. The whole setup turns nicely with a King
NoThreadSet, tuned with a Campagnolo Record top cap.
The wheels had to be light yet durable and it took a while for me to
figure out the best setup for me. The hubs were easily decided: these had to be
Chris King, hands down. The new Hügi 240 is slightly lighter, but the
durability of Hügi is questioned by some people. The rims gave me some
options too: Bonty, Sun Sub 4 or Mavic X517. The Mavic reputation is
good and since they are easy to find where I live and come with a ceramic
coating, I decided to go with these. For the spokes I wanted to get my
hands on DT Revos, but since the DT Spoke Calc online is absolutely worthless,
I asked Michael from Odds and Endos for help: he suggested a Wheelsmith
setup, with the custom drawn XL14 spokes and DB14/15's on the drive side
(adding 16 g and a lot of stiffness). It turned out to be a nice combo.
The brakes had to be Avid, since they are easy to set up, come with a
handy on-the-fly adjuster, are light and do not squeal like Shimano. A cool
option seemed to be the Single Digit Ultimate with Speed Dial Ultimate levers.
When the brakes finally arrived they came with stainless steel hardware
instead of Titanium, but these will be replaced in the future. Lighter brakes
are available, but the Avids look extremely durable and are monster stoppers.
To get the overall weight down a bit I used SRP alloy chainring and
crank bolts. The original Chris King headset cap with the stainless bolt was
replaced by a carbon fibre Campagnolo Record with alloy bolt. I will
replace some other bolts by Ti and alloy in the near future, bringing the weight
hopefully down another 100 g or so.
The result is a very light 20 lbs. hardtail that climbs like a mountain
goat and sprints like a mad man.
My objective was to build an old dream bike with light yet durable
components. Since I really love the feel of a steel hardtail, it just
had to be made from steel. It is not the lightest material available, but since
the next best thing is Titanium in my opinion, it is a more "affordable"
Jeff Archer (First Flight Bicycles)
Wendyll Behrend (Fat City Cycles)
Rob Collins
Michael Garcia (Odds and Endos)
Leon van Harte
Eric Iversen
Ton Schouten


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OpenBSD Installation and Upgrading Installing and upgrading OpenBSD. |
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
Installing for dual boot w/o CD/Floppy
I've just purchased a ASUS netbook, and it came loaded with Win7 starter and nothing but USB ports and memory card slots. I don't own a USB floopy or CD-ROM drive, and don't really want to buy one.
Originally I was thinking, that I would like to install OpenBSD on it and utilize it as a terminal for SSH/X11 to a much more powerful Linux box. Although as is, this damn thing is faster than my 5-year old laptop! So maybe that's a moot point. Either way, I would kinda like to try OpenBSD on this :-) My problem is twofold: using only USB (I've got a 4GB stick) or an SD card, how can I both resize the partitions for a dual boot, and install OpenBSD? I assume this will help for doing the USB stick but, the resize, I'm kinda clueless on... lol
My Journal Thou shalt check the array bounds of all strings (indeed, all arrays), for surely where thou typest ``foo'' someone someday shall type ``supercalifragilisticexpialidocious''. |
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