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Sweden's closet racists - New York Times articleYou can go now |
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Sweden's closet racists - New York Times articleYou can go now |
21.Apr.2013, 11:33 AM
Joined: 31.Jan.2007 |
"Everyone knows. But no one does anything. Instead we focus on persecuting people who have moved here in search of the security that we're so proud of offering to some of our citizens."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/opinion/...et-racists.html Migga and others, please *read* the article before posting your predictable prejudice. And in anticipation of other predictable postings: No, I don't hate Sweden. But I'm concerned about what appears to be the institutionalisation and justification of 'Sweden-for-the-Swedes' sentiments, whereby 'Swedes' refers only to 'ethnic' Swedes. |
21.Apr.2013, 01:33 PM
Joined: 26.May.2011 |
Well, I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before "Migga and others" show up with their "predictable prejudice".
21.Apr.2013, 02:25 PM
Location: Västra Götaland Joined: 5.Jul.2012 |
Which, of course, you do not have ! ! ! !
21.Apr.2013, 02:38 PM
Joined: 21.Apr.2013 |
Read the article and it is complete trash:
"stronger borders, more internal ID checks, faster deportation of people without papers." All of those things are necessary in an efficient society. If it makes anybody mad, they should not be in the country to begin with. Sweden should not be everybody's w**** open to the whole world. The process should be heavily controlled and people without papers should be deported immediately - they are there illegally. It is not racist to think that either. |
21.Apr.2013, 02:39 PM
Joined: 21.Dec.2006 |
Seems that a country made by people for themselves and by themselves is something others covet...what if the "theys" made a country for themselves that was decent?...would they want the "themselves" to turn it into something else...that was not for them?
Why post and then condemn others before they reply...is it because "they" are different from you? Isn't it prejudicial to form a negative opinion before you hear what someone has to say in reply to what you agree with...or support? |
21.Apr.2013, 02:47 PM
Joined: 26.Jul.2011 |
"Everyone knows. But no one does anything. Instead we focus on persecuting people who have moved here in search of the security that we're so proud of offering to some
... (show full quote)
I haven`t written one word and I`m already being judged beforehand. Whatever I write have already been labeld as "predictable prejudice" before it`s left my keyboard. I`m not trying to play the victim role here, unlike the author of the article you linked to, but like him I want to raise awareness and make a point for the readers here how some commentators behave. I read the article and knew instantly that it`s the same, with minor changes, that was discussed a month ago; http://www.thelocal.se/46736/20130314/ If the author wants to raise awareness, and you aswell, then you are both free to do so. There is racism, homophobia, ageism, sexism, islamophobia and everything else in Sweden. Just like there is in all countries. It`s horrible and everyone should fight the problems. Sweden should be for Swedes, both ethnic and non ethnic Swedes. But this article won`t change the situation, nor will it improve things. If you want to do that my advice would be that you get real facts, meantion both negative and positive arguments and make a objective case regarding the issue. That`s the way forward. Listing subjective experiences and cheapening the issue with emotional arguments is not. I wrote something similar in the comment section to the article published on The Local, if you want to know more about my view. |
21.Apr.2013, 02:59 PM
Joined: 21.Dec.2006 |
And then there is this...an article that was here a while ago...glad I saved it!
"In all my 34 years has the words "racist" and "racism" has been synonymous with ethnic Swedes dislike, harassing, verbally or physically attacking other people because they are dark-skinned and so-called non-Swedes. But this was not the first racism I encountered during my childhood. My first contact with pure racism and prejudice on the basis of ethnicity was the exact opposite, from the non-Swedes against the Swedes. Tommy Deogan But even then, at that time, for over fifteen years ago, these were hate crimes or bias is anything like it was put any weight on from either school, community or adult world. Possibly to the image of "racism" is so squarely punctuated in our minds that racism can only Swedes subject others to. I remember well how Greeks proudly joined their nation's flag on the jack sleeve, also Iranians, Turks and even pimples. But as soon as a female classmate of mine sewed the Swedish on her, this was seen as "hate speech." idiocy was already completely against the adult world that allowed some racism, but not another. Is there one thing that I really want to teach my children, it is to be proud of their country, Sweden. Where they can go to school without having to worry about raining bombs, where they educate themselves, where they acquire their own families, where their uncle is buried but perhaps more importantly, to their country helps - and receives people in need from others countries. That, if anything, is really something to be proud of. Regardless of whether or not their schools sing the Swedish national anthem at school closings, I take them proudly in their hands and singing so that the entire roof lifting. Perhaps there is an extra motivation in this for me, since I have never really been able to let go of those years in my early elementary school when I experienced racism up close for the first time. During my childhood and my friends in Hallonbergen and generations 1975 - 1980, there were absolutely no thoughts on who was Swedish or not Swedish. Hallonbergen was very inclusive and all hung out with everyone. It was rather the heart and the friendship you wore on, rather than skin color. Then something happened that I never understood. Ethnic groups began to draw to each other, Iranians with Iranians, Turks with Turks and Somalis with Somalis. What became evident was how the group "Swedish-born" youth ended up at the bottom of the steps in these groups' eyes. To the degree that a lot of this so-called "reverse" approach often went bet. Just because a guy was Swedish believed that he was an easy target as they both could call for "dork" and then jump on. However, the ending is all too often these fights in the Swedish-born stood up, and looked down at the other, which in turn came back with an army of mates to take revenge on the "lad". This was not an "isolated incident" that I know that many schools and communities, including my own, wanted it to. It was so huge that it almost made pilgrimages Swedish-born young people tired of this racism to the extreme right-wing groups. Once there was added a stamp on him, to be "on the slide". What, however, from that time to the time of writing has been the most constant of the slide is the adult world, school and community. This form of racism where Swedish-born children and adolescents may take as much crap, daily, there is hardly anyone who wants to see or hear about. But it exists, it exists in a wide extent. The result of this ended up, if possible, even more on the slide. Swedish-born youths pulled either to destructive groups or transformed themselves into, "non-Swedes" (?) The total distortion of this is that Swedish-born children and adolescents in immigrant environments themselves began to break and deliberately impair their Swedish speech. One could almost believe that they come from the Middle East yesterday when you heard them talking. What is even today. To be "Swedish" became so synonymous with being a dork, wimp and weak individual. To this extent there exists a "reverse" racism. Only the words "reverse racism" speaks volumes about how we look at it. Racism is only and only if the Swedish-born whites or direct it to non-Swedes, or non-white. In other cases, it is called "reverse". However, the racism just as much - and equally disgusting racism that it, in our minds "correct". In everything else, the rule is that they must be able to feel good, to help others. But not when it comes to this. In an emergency on an airplane, it's about self put on their own oxygen mask before helping others. This is not because you are an egoist, on the contrary. Can you yourself did not breathe, the likelihood that the child next to not get on his mask either. All these popular so-called "coaches" yelling out their mantras: "You can not love yourself, you can not love others ..." and we buy this line and sinker! Everyone loves themselves, but only in moderation. If we implement this mantra to Sweden, Swedes and immigrants so it immediately becomes ludicrous. Is it something we should not be, for some reason, in this country, it is to be proud of it. Pride Svearike become instantly synonymous with Nazism. In a similar smug way I shall become astounded people who call supporters hooligans, because they cheer for a team, wearing the team's scarf or expressing his pride over to cheer on that particular team. It's a scary bigotry and ignorance, so that you become afraid. Say what you will about the U.S., but one thing they have succeeded. It is the creation of Americans - both native who moved. How can it be that it would be rated for "racist" if the Swedish police, like the U.S., had the Swedish flag on the jackets, cars, and photos? Do we know at all what country it is we live in reality? The only times when you get to experience the Swedish pride and community are at the World Cup or European Championship or abroad. Abroad is all wrong-Swedes and both hugs and dinner parties given to all other Swedes, only because they are Swedes. Would it then only bid on a coffee to someone equally unknown here at home, in the subway would probably be classified as mentally ill and police would be called. Direct. Back home in Sweden again, we return to our daily lives. A day where Swedish children in certain environments early learn and grow up with the fact that they can not be proud of their motherland, where all other nations' flags represent pride, besides their own. Above all, where Swedish children and adolescents "emigrate" in place, wish they were of a different nationality and lose as well a number as the major Swedish culture. I myself was born in Sweden, with parents from India. My children's mother is Swedish and my children are Swedes. I'm damn proud of, and it would not surprise me for a second whether any reader of this text henceforth even call me a racist! But I'm not afraid of being called "racist" and I can only hope that many more "Swedish-born" also releases the fear that replacing it with common sense, fairness and an understanding of the difference between love, pride, and racist contempt. Through all the years I have hardly seen a single article or news that highlights the racism in Sweden we call "reverse". Although thousands of children suffer from it daily and literally ashamed to be born in Sweden. Bo Hansson says "blacks" on the radio, and there will be an outcry out of the ordinary. A teacher at the high school calls one of his students for "Powel" and no one cares. We must begin to bother us. We have to show the way for new generations of children and young people that it's perfectly okay, verging on self-evident, that one should be proud of - and love their country. We, the adults, must begin to learn the differences. For as long as we turn a blind eye, suffers at least as many Swedish children and adolescents with non-Swedish children and adolescents of the ugly, vile, bigoted and knowledge poor racism. It is neither "reverse" or "turning". It is what it is! Just like the Swedish flag long, apparently, has been conquered by extreme right ideas, they have also added a monopoly on the word "reverse racism." They only thing that can neutralize and normalize this is ourselves. Maybe it's so that no one dares talk about this "reverse racism" when it has become a powerful mantra for extremist and xenophobic ideas. If you take the words in his mouth, it means perhaps that is classified as "racist." Although this extremely extensive and almost cowardly fear must also be broken. Swedish teachers dare not see the problem in the school corridors and act if he or she would mention that there is a "reverse racism" is palpable fear that he himself is accused of being one. Are we really so afraid of what other people, who do not pay our rent, give us food on the table or help with anything in our lives, think of us? Even for us, anti-racists, so is the Swedish flag is our flag. The term "reverse racism" still exists and it is as obnoxious as the "other" racism we always talk about. For us, this kind of racism, the "reverse", just as important to fight, highlight and talk about. To me, racism is not bound to observe any color or belong to any ethnic origin. Whether it manifests itself against a non-Swedish to Swedish, or vice versa so it is just as cowardly, ignorant and square. I do not know how many times in my life that I hear that Sweden would be better, but Swedes. Just as I hear that Sweden would be "better" but non-Swedes. None of these ways of thinking seems to be more intelligent than the other. In Sweden, we talk so often and proud of our democratic rights, particularly as we look to "other countries". But how good is this really where our nation's flag barely dare to use, because it is considered "offensive." Likewise, perceived to be "racist" to sing our national anthem. Perhaps that is why we are super us dyngraka and screams out the national anthem on a charter trip, as often as an alarm to snooze. We dare not even use and highlight words as "reverse racism." All this has extreme right have seized, and we sit nicely and watch in silence. We make them also the great service that we accept that they had seized it by themselves refuse to wave the flag, sing our national anthem or highlight the "reverse racism". Personally, I and my neighbor the only ones with the Swedish flag on our patio blanketed year-round. My parents immigrated from India in the 70s, and my neighbor's wife immigrated from Thailand around 2005. Both of us have been told that it might be "offensive". What I find most offensive is, those who object to the Swedish flag can be "objectionable", how they have gone on extreme right conquests and they accepted them. My second thought is, "Do they know themselves about the country they live in?" / Tommy Deogan, employees Motargument.se |
21.Apr.2013, 07:50 PM
Location: Karlskrona Joined: 21.Oct.2012 |
[quote name='Gamla Hälsingebock' date='21.Apr.2013, 02:59 PM' post='804422']
And then there is this...an article that was here a while ago...glad I saved it! Take further English lessons to learn how to argue summarily! Summarise your points. Be precised and straight to the point. |
22.Apr.2013, 12:35 AM
Joined: 9.Apr.2013 |
Sweden works within the framework of the EU Immigration policies that are agreed across all Member States. A Member State must adhere to the minimum requirements, though in certain areas it can be a little more generous ...but there are limits to that. eg. Sweden allows sambo relationships to be treated as family, where-as other Member States do not. In addition to the international conventions that have been signed. The fact that it has neither broken the EU rules or International Agreements clearly indicate that it is not racist!
It isn't that Sweden is changing policy as such, it is just enforcing policy and tightening certan areas to bring it more inline with the rest of the EU. The biggest issue is illegals. They need to make a decision, it is not fair to the illegals, nor domestic populations (tax payers). It needs to either deport immediately those it can once residency has been refused, or it should grant residency permits. There is a cost either way, but to create a sub-population of people is not good for anyone. I do not see what the fuss is over being asked to produce ID. When the police stop a driver and ask for the drivers license that is to catch someone that is breaking the law with regards driving. It seems perfectly reasonable that the police should be able to stop people and ask for their ID to catch those that are breaking immigration laws. It would be a waste of time, and stupid, of the police to stop everyone on the street to ask to see their drivers license, just as it is stupid to believe it is wrong to target those that look like they may need specific documentation to be legal in the country. On the other hand, YES!, of-course it is racial descrimination. EVERY country is, there are special rules for Swedish Citizens, EU Citizens, Non-EU Citizens... In that respect all states are descriminatory, for good reason. |
22.Apr.2013, 12:48 AM
Joined: 9.Apr.2013 |
islamophobia There is no such thing as Islamophobia. The term is incorrect. In clinical psychology a phobia is a type of anxiety disorder usually defined as a persistent fear fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding , typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognised as irrational. Object or situation, that does not include doctrines of belief. For the 6 million muslims per year that convert to Christianity in Africa who according to the doctrine should be put to death, to women that are beaten according to the rules, even for dogs that should be destroyed it is not fair nor right to use the term islamophobia, their fear is neither disproportionate not irrational. Indeed it is up to islam to prove that it is not a danger, which sadly history shows otherwise. |
22.Apr.2013, 02:31 AM
Joined: 26.May.2011 |
Sweden works within the framework of the EU Immigration policies that are agreed across all Member States. A Member State must adhere to the minimum requirements, though in ce
... (show full quote)
Disagreed. Swedish think tanks have looked into this matter and concluded that if any of the passengers subjected to the ID check makes a formal complaint to the court on the EU-level, Stockholm police will likely lose the lawsuit. Most crimes need to be reported before actions can be taken. If a rape-victim doesn't report to the police, the perpetrator might go free, although it doesn't mean the perps did nothing wrong! |
22.Apr.2013, 06:07 AM
Joined: 22.Mar.2011 |
You know, when sweden is for everyone. My allegiance switch from sweden to Swedes.
Consider, someone who treats everyone equally and with equal benevolence is a truly virtuous man. However, he does not have any friends and treat his family the same as he treats strangers. He is no longer human. |
22.Apr.2013, 06:20 AM
Joined: 21.Dec.2006 |
Take further English lessons to learn how to argue summarily!
Summarise your points. Be precised and straight to the point. [/quote] Reply post #8 Don't you think you should learn to spell before you critize others...or is that too much to expect? |
22.Apr.2013, 07:27 AM
Joined: 22.Nov.2011 |
Disagreed. Swedish think tanks have looked into this matter and concluded that if any of the passengers subjected to the ID check makes a formal complaint to the court on the
... (show full quote)
This is incorrect. Schengen agreement does limits ID control at the border, it cannot and does not prevent ID checks within the Member State. This is why in France they check ID on the trains once they have crossed the border. |
22.Apr.2013, 11:24 AM
Location: Stockholm Joined: 24.May.2011 |
From my experience, the average "ethnic Swede" (for lack of a more suitable term) does not grasp the notion of racism or do so in a very shallow way.
I know several that would never consider what they do or say to be racist, but whose actions would be looked at it in horror. I know people that don't pay with cards in "ethnic shops" (again for want of a better word) as they think the risk of card fraud is somewhat higher. I have been picked out of check-in queues in Arlanda and interrogated (I have no criminal record whatsoever so they only thing must be how I look or where I orginate from) while the others just glide through. Interestingly when I got to my destination (New York) they were not interested in jack, just stamped my passport and said "have a nice day" and that was rather refreshing. I am not white, but rather mixed, (light skinned etc), the mrs is an ethnic swede and one of my few fears is how my children will be treated growing up in Sweden. Interestingly, a common response to this has been "they will not look so foreign anyway so don't worry", sad to say that makes me even more concerned! But this of course goes well beyond Sweden, the world doesn't see a non-white Swede, not at all. Mrs was relaying coming back from holidaying in the south of europe with an ex a few years ago. The guys at passport control were not interested in letting him get on the plane as it was odd he had a Swedish passport (he was adopted from south asia), only doing so when they realised he was travelling with her so then it made perfect sense. |