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Gene patenting and free software: a breakthrough | Opensource.com
Gene patenting and free software: a breakthrough
06 Apr 2010 Eben Moglen Feed
24 comments
Last week, to the surprise of patent lawyers and the biotechnology industry, advocates for technological freedom won an enormous victory against socially harmful distortions of patent law. The Federal District Court for the Southern District of New York held invalid patents owned by Myriad Genetics on diagnostic testing for genetic susceptibility to the most common hereditary forms of breast and ovarian cancer. By "patenting" the right to determine whether the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes are present in the relevant mutated form in a women's genome, Myriad Genetics has been able to exclude all other laboratories from conducting the test. Patients and their insurers have paid much more, and women and their families have waited crucial weeks longer than necessary for information relevant to treatment and potentially affecting survival.
The Public Patent Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the patent on the ground that the Act does not permit the patenting of "facts of nature." In a lengthy and carefully argued opinion granting summary judgment, Judge Robert Sweet agreed. Judge Sweet rejected the basic premise on which gene testing patents such as the one granted to Myriad have been justified: that the amplification of naturally-occurring DNA sequences is a patentable transformation of the DNA molecule. Instead, Judge Sweet adopted the view put forward by Myriad's own expert witnesses, that DNA is a special molecule, "a physical carrier of information," and therefore held that the reading of such naturally-occurring information is not patentable subject matter. Whether posed as a new composition of matter, or as a method for "analyzing" or "comparing" DNA sequences, Judge Sweet held, Myriad's attempt to gain a monopoly on looking at a particular DNA sequence to find out what it says falls outside the permissible scope of patent law.
In reaching his legal conclusions, Judge Sweet relied significantly on the recent opinion of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, which has primary responsibility for interpreting the nation's patent law, In re Bilski, 535 F.3d 943 (2008), now pending in the Supreme Court. Bilski, as readers here will know, raises issues concerning the patentability of business methods and computer software, on essentially the same basic ground: that, as the Supreme Court has said, "phenomena of nature, though just discovered, mental processes, and abstract intellectual concepts are not patentable, as they are the basic tools of scientific and technological work." Gottschalk v. Benson, 409 U.S. 63, 67 (1972). Judge Sweet's opinion may be said to raise the stakes on Bilski slightly, but the parts of the Federal Circuit opinion on which Judge Sweet relies are not about the "specialized machine or transformation of matter" test adopted by the Federal Circuit to distinguish patentable from unpatentable inventions involving computer software and methods of doing business. Judge Sweet followed the Federal Circuit closely in its expression of the settled law of patent scope, making it more unlikely that the Federal Circuit, which will hear the inevitable appeal from Judge Sweet's judgment, will be inclined to disturb the conclusion.
Instead, Judge Sweet's ruling shows the beginning of a broader front in the judicial determination to reign in patenting that has gone too far, turning information that should be free to all into property exclusively held by a few. Neither our patent law itself, nor the guarantees of freedom to learn and teach protected by the First Amendment, can tolerate the widespread creation of statutory monopolies on ideas. Judge Sweet's conclusion with respect to gene patenting confirms and supports the position taken by the amici curiae in Bilski, including the Software Freedom Law Center, that computer software standing by itself, another carrier of information about algorithms, or mental processes, is not within the scope of patent law. Judge Sweet's opinion illuminates another of the large classes of human knowledge presently being made the subject of statutory monopolies through the patent system, but which cannot legally be made monopolies at all.
Americans have begun to understand a little bit about how, in the last two decades, corporations and their servants turned more and more of our society's opportunities into property for themselves. The sorrow and anger that is entering our politics, as honorable working people realize how badly they were had, will not soon abate. That the patent system too was gamed by the powerful at the expense of everybody else has not been fully grasped yet. But it will be. Time will show that Judge Sweet was more than courageous in his ruling, that he was also speaking with the voice of America behind him, as all great judges do.
About the author
Eben Moglen - Founding director, Software Freedom Law Center, 2005- Professor of Law, Columbia Law School, 1987- General Counsel, Free Software Foundation, 1995- Pioneer Award, Electronic Frontier Foundation, 2003
Recommended reading
24 Comments
Brotherred on 07 Apr 2010 Permalink
Thankyou Eben for your tireless work and this latest reporting. I am very grateful that the FLOSS community has you on its side. We would be lesser if it were not for your influence in all matters of IP law. Thankyou once more for passing this word.
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Unidentified on 07 Apr 2010 Permalink
The butterfly effect in action. Thank you so much.
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Steve Stites on 07 Apr 2010 Permalink
"Judge Sweet's opinion may be said to raise the stakes on Bilski slightly"
I think that depends a lot on how broadly the Supreme Court rules in the Bilski case. If the Supreme Court rules that carriers of information about algorithms, or mental processes, is not within the scope of patent law then that ruling will sink gene patents before Myriad ever reaches the Supreme Court.
If the Supreme Court decides Bilski on very narrow grounds and does not rule on whether algorithms and mental processes are patentable then the Myriad case will give us another kick at the can when it reaches the Supreme Court. We could submit an amici curiae in the Myriad case which would ask for a broad enough ruling to abolish software patents as well as gene patents.
Steve Stites
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Pieter Hintjens on 08 Apr 2010 Permalink
I especially appreciated the context that you put this into, the use of patents by the powerful to extract rents from society, and the slow but inevitable backlash this is causing. It's the failure of the state to protect the weak against the powerful that is the greatest injustice, and the one that motivated many of us to work against software patents (and more broadly, the patent system as a tool for large businesses to take ownership of our future).
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Unidentified on 08 Apr 2010 Permalink
Excellent post and a great victory for the open source community and the rest of the world. I had to laugh when I read the comment from brotherred about the FLOSS community I wasn't expecting anyone to go all dental about this. I am sure he meant FOSS.
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John Beetem on 08 Apr 2010 Permalink
Personally, I always use the term FLOSS because the word "free" in English can mean both "free as in beer" and "free as in liberty". French and Spanish don't have this problem: "free as in beer" is "gratuit" or "gratis", while "free as in liberty" is "libre". Including the "L" shows we mean liberty, not beer.
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patentprofessional on 09 Apr 2010 Permalink
A patent grants the proprietor thereof a limited monopoly for a period of about 20 years. Eben speaks in his article of "... corporations and their servants turned more and more of our society's opportunities into property for themselves." What you need to remember is that these corporations spend millions and millions of dollars on research and development, without which, "society's" opportunities would not even have existed.
You fail to grasp that the limited monopoly is the pay-off for the millions and millions of dollars spent on research and development. If there is no pay-off, no monopoly to be gained, for making scientific breakthroughs, the "corporation scum" will not be investing in research and development and society's opportunities will disappear.
Maybe you see this as a battle won for the people, but I tell you, you celebrate future generations being deprived of some possibly awesome scientific breakthroughs.
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Mark Sweeney on 11 May 2010 Permalink
What is the payoff from images from the Hubble Telescope? What is the payoff from the data gathered from the Mars rovers? What is the payoff from data gathered from *any* basic research function?
The flaw in your analysis is that every scientific endeavor *must* have an economic payoff in order to advance. There are many scientific challenges that have no known short-term economic benefit, yet are funded. Ever heard of the Large Hadron Collider? What do you expect to patent from the discovery of the hadron subatomic particle?
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I assume that the Hubble Telescope and Mars Rover projects were undertaken by NASA. Here's a quick link to abstract of NASA's 1000+ patents: http://www.sti.nasa.gov/Pubs/patents/patents.html
Images and data collected by these projects are not patentable, you cannot protect images and data. The true value lies in the inventions derived from this research and I submit again, that if there isn't at least a probability for economic payoff, research projects, such as those you have mentioned above, will not be undertaken and the images from the hubble telescope, and the data from the Rovers, will never have been taken or gathered.
I agree that it is possible that there may be some research purely devoted to understanding and broadening knowledge, but who will fund this? At the end of the day we need these corporations to fund these awesome projecst so that society's knowledge base is broadened. And giving them the fruits of their discoveries (for a limited period of 20 years) seems like a small price to pay.
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@patentprofessional "I agree that it is possible that there may be some research purely devoted to understanding and broadening knowledge, but who will fund this?"
EPA, DOE,NIH, USGS, NOAA, NASA, DOD... Just a few.
"At the end of the day we need these corporations to fund these awesome projecst so that society's knowledge base is broadened."
What corporate fundamental research can you cite? I've just listed seven agencies that fund *basic* research - research that has no certainty of generating any income but attempts to answer a question of a fundamental scientific nature (i.e., what happens to subatomic particles at higher energies than 14 MeV?). I doubt that you can name one other than IBM now that Bell Lab's is essentially dead.
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Jose_X on 02 Dec 2010 Permalink
I agree and..
The idea of a monopoly as a reward is misplaced. The criteria that progress needs to be promoted was a great way to perhaps allow for monopolies as a possibility but has been ignored. If when the nation was just starting off with much wilderness around us, one patent examiner, much to be copied from European inventions not patented here, and very high costs and risks to many types of activities, we have clearly come a long long way since then to still be enabling these long monopolies, especially in fields with many participants and low costs (not to mention that copyright applies). There are better ways to reward innovation, assuming it isn't rewarded by the market itself.
And if FOSS has shown one thing it is the value of collaboration (vs. monopolizing) and that money is clearly not "everything" or even the main motivator in many cases.
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Pete on 11 Apr 2010 Permalink
To patentprofessional:
I am a scientist. You are talking about science done by corporations. Are you saying they are the authors of all discoveries in science, and therefore, they deserve to be paid for? My answer is, most science, the true discoveries, have been done by scientists from universities and institutions using the public's money (taxes). Corporations are money makers. That is their true color: they just want to squize money from anyone. How they do it? They look into the literature, the PUBLIC scientific literature available to everyone, and mostly published by laboratoires from universities and institutes around the globe. Then use this information in their profit. A company then produces a drug and sell it to the public at very high price. That is in short. But tcompanies are far from being honest though. How many drugs have been removed from the market because they are dangerous? So, don't assume these companies are victims of a complot.
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To Pete
I understand your point, and I assume from your post that you gain satisfaction from your research merely by broadening society's knowledge base. I respect that, I really do, but as you stated above, you are paid with public funds. Those funds come from corporations and institutions who, as you mentioned, are the money makers. Were it not for the corporations, your publicly funded research would never have existed and future generations will be deprived of your research.
I am not saying that only corporations deserved to be paid for their breakthroughs. Unfortunately, they are the only ones who use the patent system the way it should be used. They protect their inventions so that they can make more profit, and in return, their inventions fall into the public domain after 20 years.
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@patentprofessional "Unfortunately, they are the only ones who use the patent system the way it should be used."
How familiar are you with government agencies patenting discoveries? Did you know that the government obtains patents on discoveries that it funds? Ever heard of the CRADA process?
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Jose_X on 02 Dec 2010 Permalink
>> Those funds come from corporations and institutions who, as you mentioned, are the money makers.
The funds come from everyone. The corporations are already getting a huge raw deal with this thing called limited liability.
The patent system is not really exploitable by the majority of us for gain (too expensive to acquire, maintain, and litigate), so it should not be usable against the majority of us.
Weren't patents supposed to be to prevent the giant imitators from copying the poor little inventor? Well? Why don't we encode that into the law? Fair use for patents should be automatic for every small firm. Patents are very broad, easy to copy off others who can't afford them and work publicly, expensive to defend against even when you know of prior art, not respectful of independent invention, have a ridiculously low bar for inventiveness (see "bell curve"), (for software) stifle a great very many, etc, etc, etc.
Fair use.
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PL Hayes on 14 Apr 2010 Permalink
There is so much wrong with the notion of patent as necessary (and sole) means to incentivize R&D that I think the best response is a reference to a textbook.
The granting of patents in some area is, of course, only justifiable at all if it is significantly beneficial to scientific and technological progress and social welfare. That is something to bear in mind in view of the fact that 'gene patents' apparently haven't done much harm to research - yet!
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I do not think that a patent is the sole means of incentivizing R&D. Quite frankly there are many ways to incentivize R&D, for example, war or disaster. However, in the absence of war or disaster, monetary gain is a driving force that pushes the boundaries of technology.
If this monetary gain drives technology forward, how can you say that it is not beneficial to scientific and technological progress?
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PL Hayes on 13 Jun 2010 Permalink
We are talking about the effects of patents - not "monetary gain" - on progress and welfare. You obviously haven't read that book I linked to (it's free to download, btw) or any other on innovation economics. Not only can patents fail to be beneficial (even just to the sci. and tech. progress part of the equation), there are several well-known instances in history where they clearly have retarded progress. For a salient and recent example of one way this can happen see e.g. An Empirical Look At Software Patents by Bessen and Hunt.
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@patentprofessional "However, in the absence of war or disaster, monetary gain is a driving force that pushes the boundaries of technology."
What economic benefit was bestowed on the early researchers in electromagntics? How much money did Faraday make for his discoveries? How much did Leo Szilard make for his discoveries? What was Einstein's net worth at the time of his death due to the publication of his papers in 1905 and 1917? How much money did Feynman get for his discoveries? Other than the Nobels that many of these researchers received, they saw nothing in real economic terms from their works - except for the recognition of their contribution.
Don't you concede that people are motivated by things other than money?
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Jose_X on 10 May 2011 Permalink
We can simply ask this, is writing quality software or doing quality science something that would not be done unless a broad patent monopoly were to be awarded?
Of course these activities don't need patents for "motivation". History and a simple survey makes it very clear that writing good software is within the reach of many people, especially when they collaborate, since no huge monetary investment needed and the knowledge is readily accessible as well. Further, success comes with many benefits, so, from professionals to hobbyists, achieving quality software can be extremely rewarding.
Seen a little differently, a patent monopoly is extremely toxic and stifling. It is a very unjust abridgment on the rights of millions and on our ability to pursue great advancement and satisfaction.
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patentprofessional on 11 May 2011 Permalink
I had to go read the article again because I had almost forgotten about this thread.
Let me start off by saying that I work with patents every day. I am also 'n great supporter of open source software and on a very fundamental level, I agree with the basic principles of communism as laid down by Marx.
That being said, you can understand that I have debated the topic of patents frequently and have often struggled with the ethics of patents per se.
You have to understand that you can't just get a patent for anything. An invention has to be both new and inventive before it will be granted. The words "new" and "inventive" may seem simple, but they are actually quite stringent. To be new, an invention must not have been known, anywhere in the world before the date of filing of the patent application. To be inventive the invention must involve an inventive step and this step must not have been obvious to a person skilled in the relevant field, considering everything available to the public at the date of filing.
My personal view is that if these two (very stringent) requirements are satisfied, a person should be entitled to a patent. Historically, patents were introduced to prevent so called "black boxing", particularly in the agricultural industry where a new invention may increase yield, profitability or some other attribute of the industry. The idea was that it is better for such inventions to become part of public knowledge than be hidden away and only used by the inventor thereof. A patent specification must include an adequate description of an example of the invention to enable a person skilled in the field to exercise the invention. The quid pro quo is that your new, inventive invention becomes part of the public knowledge in exchange for a state granted monopoly of 20 years.
Now I realise that 20 years is a very long time in the software industry, but I would rather suggest attacking the period of the monopoly than being inherently biased against patents. As a mental exercise try to imagine what the software industry would be like if the development of early UNIX and DOS systems weren't blackboxed as they were and if they were only protected by patents in respect of new and inventive inventions. Licence fees would be paid for the new and inventive parts only for 20 years, thereafter it is public knowledge. There would have been less replication of code and the innovations that were made would have been properly rewarded. Perhaps I am biased because I work in this field but I truly believe that patents aren't inherently evil and fundamentally they reward innovation.
There are also mechanisms built into most patent systems to prevent abuse. In this regard I suggest that those of you who aren't familiar with the concept read up on compulsory licences and revocation of patents.
I believe the greatest obstacle in using the patent systems as it is meant to be used is cost. It is extremely expensive, if not nearly impossible for an individual to enforce his rights or defend himself against patent infringement proceedings. But this is of course a problem with th legal system itself and not just patent law. I would be all for any alternative that would decrease costs of patent suits and expedite such proceedings.
Maybe someone can invent such an alternative, and file a patent for it ;), at least then in 20 years the system might be more effective.
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Jose_X on 12 May 2011 Permalink
I agree with you that the costs of the system make patents that much more unbearable and unfair to most individuals and small businesses.
Of course, patents were not placed into law to apply to mere information (which is what software is.. information fed to a general purpose machine that will afterward behave as predicated) and were generally intended to serve as an incentive to raise large capital required to implement and distribute the invention and not get done in by larger competitors.
>> The words "new" and "inventive" may seem simple, but they are actually quite stringent. To be new, an invention must not have been known, anywhere in the world before the date of filing of the patent application.
Patent examiners don't look everywhere in the world (or US) as you almost seem to imply. In fact, I suspect there isn't a single patent examiner in the USPTO today that has analyzed or even skimmed 1/1000ths of 1% of the public source code that has been written in the prior 2 decades. That's an awful lot of material they don't know about when they grant a patent.
Truly, no one knows who is the first.
But if we did, this would hardly be a reason to consider taking away from society the natural ability of citizens and inventors to freely recreate those things for themselves.
Consider that software creations are information and expression. We not only have a First Amendment violation but software is within the purvue of ordinary folks so that 20 year monopolies are a sure way to stifle development and progress.
Einstein need sophisticated help an access to many advanced things and contemporary developments from peers in order to have been able to place himself into a position to have made his discoveries. If that information had been patented (or patentable), we would have suffered much.. and not just for Einstein's contributions but generally for those of many many others.
Same applies in music and many other areas where access to development is cheap, so there is much strength and progress made by society from collaboration and plentiful access.
>> To be inventive the invention must involve an inventive step and this step must not have been obvious to a person skilled in the relevant field, considering everything available to the public at the date of filing.
Red Hat spent $3 million to show that a few patents being used against them recently had significant prior art. The patents were nullified but at great cost to them and to those who use their software.
But we already know the USPTO doesn't really know what is new. Without knowing this, they can't make a good judgment call either on inventiveness. Though if they could, the ridiculously low standard would still lead to horribly stifling monopolies.
Formal research and studies done to date on software patents even sometimes conclude similarly without being too bashful. [See for one example, The Columbia SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY LAW REVIEW; "PATENTS AND THE R EGRESS OF USEFUL ARTS"; Dr. Andrew W. Torrance, Dr. Bill Tomlinson; 10 Colum. Sci. & Tech. L. Rev. 130 (2009) (Published May 15, 2009), http://www.stlr.org/cite.cgi?volume=10&article=3 ]
Let me ask you something. Do you make reference to the inventiveness bar ("non-obvious to a PHOSITA") with a straight face?
Do you know how many things are not obvious to a PHOSITA yet a PHOSITA discovers without help within one single year? Do you know how many things are not obvious to a PHOSITA but ridiculously obvious to many above average and genius software developers? Do you know how many above average and genius software developers practice the art today? [Take a hint from the bell curve, applied to the millions practicing sw dev today] That is an awful lot of smart brains to handcuff.
In fact, while those who find many things easy are developing more complex ideas that go beyond the "non-obvious to a PHOSITA", some PHOSITA who find many things non-obvious and have money are patenting away the basic building blocks of the really advanced stuff.
And let's not forget that it's rather easy to see what open source competitors are doing and then patent a little ahead of them to unfairly block their progress (or at least be able to present a claim) and hurt society.
>> The idea was that it is better for such inventions to become part of public knowledge than be hidden away and only used by the inventor thereof.
The tragic comedy is that by still allowing trade secrets on top of patenting, now the public gets the worst of both worlds. If an invention is a decent one, the firm keeps it as a trade secret. If the invention is something others will discover for themselves soon or perhaps already have, then filing a patent application first offers a way to put large wealth to work getting government hand-out (some would say communistic) 20-year monopolies.
And we know that the incentives go way down to work hard when you are given a guaranteed market where competitors are not allowed to compete.
>> As a mental exercise try to imagine what the software industry would be like if the development of early UNIX and DOS systems weren't blackboxed
BSD (a UNIX) has been around decades. Linux has been around now for almost exactly 2 full decades as well. Great visual and usable products have come and gone since computers have been affordable by individuals, and this has had nothing to do with "blackboxing". Their demise has to do with the natural propensity of software to become monopolies when the source code is not open and is actively developed by market leaders for incompatibility (it's natural to accidentally develop incompatibilities and deviations from specs, but surely the problem is made worse when this effort is made intentional to procure and defend a monopoly). In many cases, the network effects lock competitors out rather naturally and lock people in to single vendors. Black boxing has nothing to do with this, and we have seen much development in the past few decades.
>> Licence fees would be paid for the new and inventive parts only for 20 years, thereafter it is public knowledge.
Imagine if in practice we had to allow 20 year monopolies for all of the great software features of the last 10 years which overlapped with patented ideas that were ridiculously easy to rediscover (or were already known) and were derived by many firms surely at least because of how easy the concepts are to a team of engineers of diverse backgrounds working for a few years. If in practice we had to wait for 20 years for each such software feature, we'd be in bad shape today, especially since many things have leveraged other things which have leveraged other things etc.. all based on patented broad ideas (non-obvious to a PHOSITA).
Instead, we have gotten a lot of advancement (especially with serious doubt, both before and after Bilski, about the patentability of software); however, we also have been getting a lot of wasted money (many billions) in lawsuits and going to people who contributed next to nothing to this progress and development. We've also had wasted effort reinventing wheels merely "non-obvious to a PHOSITA" and have had to deal with chilling effects and unfair exits from the market.
In fact, just came across this: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110429/03154714083/how-one-startup-us...
Software is cheap to develop and distribute. It is information which benefits greatly form collaboration and is hurt by monopolies. It is not effectively a scarce product. Because of this and the ability for a nearly perfect tool (the computer) to help us "debug" it and reuse it almost in unlimited fashion, it can get very complex and is particularly threatened by idea monopolies when enforced.
Software is mathematics, yet has even already been ruled to be copyrightable (a normally much more narrow form of monopoly than patents).
>> There are also mechanisms built into most patent systems to prevent abuse.
Granting software patents (especially of such a low standard as non-obvious to a PHOSITA) and claiming the law and Constitution allows them is horrible abuse itself. The USPTO has already made their decision and failed society.
Most who can afford to take software patents to the SCOTUS have no interest in seeing a clear ruling against software patents. Most who don't want patents find it at some point much cheaper to settle, especially as the offer improves if it appears the patents might be invalidated.
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James L Steele on 11 May 2010 Permalink
Awesome ruling, well written article Eben! Very informative on first reading.
Would like to raise the question of how this might translate to plant genetic modifications? I see easy translations in the area of plant GMO's. These also have some connection to long term socially harmful results.
The more general fields of herbicides, insecticides and fungicides in agricultural and food production also would seem to have some connection. Our entire food production and delivery system in present time seems to be controlled or highly leveraged to a few similar type patents.
Who is sufficiently knowledgeable and resourceful enough to take up the challenge of harmful patents in our food system?
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
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Lawrence Fitzgerald on 12 Jun 2010 Permalink
Thank you so much for writing this article and keeping everyone informed of the status of the 'Patent Wars'. There are a lot of people out there who have no idea what battles are being fought to protect their freedoms.
I think the work of the FSF, SFLC, Groklow and all the other OS organizations are extremely important in deciding what future direction our world is going to take. If it wasn't for the people tirelessly fighting IP/patent laws, we would be heading for a very dark future indeeed(think mega-corporations[eg. Blade Runner] ).
I have some friends (a labtech and a ct tech) who might be interested in this article. I hope to convince them to send this to their coworkers. Thanks again.
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text:
German Shepherd Dog Forums (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/)
- Puppy Behavior (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/)
- - Pup growled at a little boy/excitement with other dogs on leash (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/202786-pup-growled-little-boy-excitement-other-dogs-leash.html)
Pup growled at a little boy/excitement with other dogs on leash
Today we took Ollie and one of our small dogs on a 4 mile walk at a popular trail nearby where we live... We've been here loads of times with Ollie and one of the reasons I like coming here is because of how many people and dogs there are, great for socialization.
We were halfway through the walk when out of nowhere this little boy came running up behind us, he couldn't have been no more then three. It startled both of our dogs and Ollie turned around, growled a little and did a "woof"... I popped his lead, told him no and continued walking on even though he kept trying to turn back and look at the kid, he did not growl or bark again.
I didn't want to get two far ahead of the kid because he appeared to be by himself though I finally spotted what I thought were his parents some 25-30 feet back seeming completely unconcerned that their kid was running out of sight to strangers with dogs. We sat down at a bench waiting for his parents but they let him run off out of sight again... I wanted to give them an earful but I am just not good at being confrontational. :mad:
Normally Ollie is superb with people, he's all over them like a Golden Retriever(though I know this may change as he matures), he's had lots of little kids all over him and he's always been very gentle with them. Do you think this was just a freak thing because he was spooked and the child was following super close behind us shuffling his feet very loudly? Did I react alright, anything I could change... I suppose I could have stopped and had him greet the little boy, I was just so stunned that he was alone that it just didn't cross my mind.
He's also becoming a bit more reactive to other dogs when he's on a leash... Not aggressive, just that bouncy puppy WANNA PLAY type thing but to someone with a little yorkie, it sure looks like he wants to eat them! He is really good with dogs off leash small and large... Until his next class is there anything I can do to help keep him in line? Possibly have treats and distract him as we're going past dogs and not letting him stop and sniff/greet dogs on walks anymore?
Sorry this got long winded but thank you for reading and for any thoughts you may have!
Were you also startled by the little boy? That might play into Ollie's reaction. I think you handled it fine and it's something I would just keep an eye on if it's never been an issue before.
Does Ollie get to meet other dogs on leash often? My experience is that dogs that are allowed to pull to meet other dogs or spend a lot of time playing off leash with other dogs generally have that reaction when they see other dogs. I never allow my dogs to meet others if they or the other dog is too excited and not behaving. Same for people. The only way you get to meet someone is if you are calm, controlled and behaved.
You're right, I did tense up because I thought the little boy was running at us to fling himself at my dogs, the smaller one is FA and does not like being petted by strangers...
And yeah, we got stopped A LOT when he was a little younger(he is a LC puppy after all) especially by people with other dogs... It was hard for me to say no because they were so enthralled by him and wanting to ask questions. We're still working on his impulse control and the biggest thing I'm working on right now with him is focus and getting him to look at me(he's 4 1/2 months old, I should have mentioned). When he's in that state of wanting to see the other dog it's hard for me to get his attention.
Should I stop letting him play with other dogs while I work on that issue?
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Local youngsters coached by Arsenal stars
Gervinho and Sebastien Squillaci
A group of 12 youngsters from Arsenal in the Community's Disability Sport programme enjoyed a coaching session at the Club's London Colney training centre last week, where they were put through their paces by two very special guests.
Children from Robert Blair Primary School and The Bridge School, both in Islington, were greeted by defender Sebastien Squillaci and Ivorian forward Gervinho as they took part in a mini-football tournament to celebrate their participation in the Disability Sport programme, which runs coaching sessions during schools hours and after school.
Both schools have been a part of the Premier League-PFA funded programme since its inception and the opportunity to visit the state-of-the-art Hertfordshire facility was a fitting finale to their involvement in the programme, which comes to an end in September this year.
The session gave the pupils involved a unique opportunity to showcase their footballing skills in front of their idols.
Lena, one of the youngsters who takes part in the programme at the Bridge School said: "The sessions that Arsenal run in our school are really fun and the match was fabulous! I really liked it when Gervinho high-fived us after we scored a goal!"
Jack from Robert Blair School, added: "It was a cool experience and Sebastien and Gervinho were really good coaches and passed on some great tips."
Dinesh Vijayan, Arsenal in the Community's Disability Sport Officer, commented: "This was a fantastic opportunity for both the schools and Arsenal in the Community to showcase the work that we have been doing together over the last few years.
"Although I focus on football coaching in my sessions there are a lot of other benefits that the children receive, such as gaining the confidence to mix with their mainstream peers and developing social skills to interact with them well.
"The teachers and teaching assistants who work tirelessly to achieve these goals day in day out should be very proud of their children as they made a great impression on all of the Arsenal training ground staff as well as the two players!"
Arsenal in the Community is committed to making sport accessible to its supporters and the Club runs regular term-time disability football sessions for Arsenal's young supporters. They take place on a fortnightly basis on Sunday mornings at the Sobell Leisure Centre in Finsbury Park and are free. If you or someone you know might like to get involved, please email Dinesh Vijayan on: firstname.lastname@example.com or call 020 7704 4140 for more information.
The Club also offers a number of dedicated and award-winning services and facilities for disabled supporters and visitors to Emirates Stadium. For further information email firstname.lastname@example.com.
Arsenal's disability awareness work falls under the umbrella of Arsenal for Everyone, which aims to embrace and celebrate diversity and equality in all forms at Arsenal Football Club.


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Tag Archives: Rolling Stones
Elvis Movie to be Produced by Mick Jagger
A new movie is in the works, and living legend Mick Jagger will be a producer. The movie will be based off of Peter Guralnick's book Last Train to Memphis, and will be focused on Elvis' early years. Not much other … Continue reading


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Sunday Shows Play Along As Romney Campaign Surrogates Distract From Romney's Dismal Jobs Record
Research ››› ››› DAVID SHERE
During Mitt Romney's term as Massachusetts governor, that state ranked as one of the worst in the nation in terms of job creation -- squeezing out a net jobs gain of 1 percent compared with the national average of 5.3 percent at the time. But ABC and NBC Sunday shows allowed Romney campaign surrogates to obscure that record using a new talking point that Romney ended his term with Massachusetts ranked in "the middle of the pack."
FACT: Massachusetts Jobs Growth Underperformed National Economy During Romney's Entire Term
BLS: Massachusetts Lagged Behind The Rest Of The Country In Jobs Growth. This chart, from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis' FRED and using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, shows the jobs in Massachusetts and the nation as a whole compared with January 2003, the month Romney took office. The blue line represents Massachusetts while the red stands for the nation:
[Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, 6/3/12]
FactCheck.org: MA "Squeezed Out A Net Gain In Payroll Jobs Of Just 1 Percent, Compared With Job Growth Of 5.3 Percent For The Nation." In January 2008, FactCheck.org examined Romney's claim that Massachusetts gained jobs "every single month" he was governor and concluded:
Payroll jobs in Massachusetts hit their low point in December 2003 at the end of Romney's first year in office. And the number of jobs declined in seven of the remaining 36 months of his term, as measured by total nonfarm employment, seasonally adjusted, which is the standard measure of payroll employment used by economists and journalists. The claim that jobs increased "every single month" is false.
Furthermore, Romney's job record provides little to boast about. By the end of his four years in office, Massachusetts had squeezed out a net gain in payroll jobs of just 1 percent, compared with job growth of 5.3 percent for the nation as a whole. [FactCheck.org, 1/11/08]
FACT: Massachusetts' "Puny" Job Growth "Badly Lagged" Similar States
Reuters: "Romney Presided Over One Of The Puniest Rates Of Employment Growth ... At A Time [When] The Nation's Economy Was Booming." From an April 12, 2011, Reuters report:
Romney stressed his experience as head of private equity firm Bain Capital when he announced on Monday he was forming an exploratory committee on seeking the Republican 2012 nomination to challenge Obama, a Democrat.
He made a fortune wheeling and dealing in companies, some of which endured big job cuts as part of restructuring. Some ultimately went bankrupt.
[A]s Massachusetts governor from January 2003 to January 2007, Romney presided over one of the puniest rates of employment growth among the 50 U.S. states, at a time the nation's economy was booming.
Labor Department figures showed Massachusetts ranked 47th among the states in the rate of jobs growth in those four years -- ahead of only Ohio, Michigan and Louisiana. [Reuters, 4/12/11]
WSJ's Brett Arends: Mass. Job Growth "Badly Lagged Other High-Skill, High-Wage, Knowledge Economy States." According to a February 2010 MarketWatch article by Wall Street Journalcolumnist Brett Arends:
Romney, who may well be President Barack Obama's opponent in 2012, he had great time last week blaming the president for the current jobs shortage.
Speaking to the CPAC right-wing conference in Washington, D.C., Romney said that the dismal employment situation, a year after Obama took office, showed the president was a "failure" who was "going downhill faster than... Lindsey Vonn."
OK, let's take him at his word. Then what does that say about Romney?
The Republican contender was the governor of Massachusetts from January 2003 to January 2007. And during that time, according to the U.S. Labor Department, the state ranked 47th in the entire country in jobs growth. Fourth from last.
The only ones that did worse? Ohio, Michigan and Louisiana. In other words, two rustbelt states and another that lost its biggest city to a hurricane.
The Massachusetts jobs growth over that period, a pitiful 0.9%, badly lagged other high-skill, high-wage, knowledge economy states like New York (2.7%), California (4.7%) and North Carolina (7.6%).
The national average: More than 5%.
This was after four years. So far Obama has been in office for just one year. How was Romney's performance by his first anniversary?
Fiftieth out of fifty.
That's right. In Romney's first year in charge, Massachusetts ranked dead last in America in jobs growth. [MarketWatch, 2/23/10]
SPIN: Romney Campaign Surrogates Argue Massachusetts Went From "51st" to "30th" in Job Creation
Ed Gillespie: MA Was "51st" In Job Creation When Romney Took Over, Moved Up To "30th" After Four Years. During an interview on Fox News Sunday, former Republican national Committee chairman Ed Gillespie argued that Massachusetts went from being ranked last in job creation to "number 30." For his part, host Chris Wallace disputed those numbers, noting that "[o]ver the four years, it was 47th. There's no question about that":
GILLESPIE: The first year, it was 50th in job -- when he took office, it was number 50 in job creation, actually 51 if you count the District of Columbia.
WALLACE: We'll check the numbers.
GILLESPIE: Go check it out, OK? And when he ended his term in office, his four years in office, it was number 30, so he moved it dramatically.
WALLACE: But, over -- wait, over the four years, it was 47th. There's no question about that.
GILLESPIE: When, if -- this is what they're doing, Chris. You take the first year which is a low base year when the governor came in and took office because it was 50th in job creation, out of all of the states, dead last, moved it to 30th by the fourth year, had a net job creation of around 40,000 jobs, and they were averaging out over the four years, so they're bringing down the gains of his fourth year in office which shows the real impact of his policies and diluting it with his first year in office when he came into office and it was 50th in job creation. [Fox Broadcast Co., Fox News Sunday, 6/3/12]
Three Other Romney Surrogates Used Same Talking Point. Neither NBC's David Gregory nor ABC's George Stephanopoulos challenged these claims:
- Ohio Gov. John Kasich: "First of all, he wasn't 47. When he took over, he was 51st, counting D.C., when he left, he was 30th in the country. He created tens of thousands of jobs and the unemployment went down." [NBC, Meet the Press, 6/3/12]
- Romney adviser Kevin Madden: "We were 50 -- as Governor Kasich alluded to before, 51st in job creation, and when he had left office, he had advanced the state to 30th, so he had advanced it 20 places on that particular list." [NBC, Meet the Press, 6/3/12]
- Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom: "On the jobs question, because this comes up repeatedly, that Massachusetts was 47 out of 50 in terms of job growth. Actually when Mitt Romney arrived, Massachusetts was an economic baskethouse. If you throw D.C. into the mix, we were 51 out of 51. By the time Mitt Romney left four years later, we were in the middle of the pack. We were 30th in the nation in terms of job growth." [ABC, This Week, 6/3/12]
Romney Campaign Surrogates Are Using Romney's Last Year In Office To Distract From Overall Performance
Boston Globe: In "Romney's Last Full Year In Office, Massachusetts Jobs Grew By 1.06 Percent, 32nd In The Nation." From the Boston Globe's Political Intelligence blog:
The claim that Massachusetts under Romney ranked 47th out of 50 states in job growth is true, and the Romney campaign has not disputed its accuracy. If the District of Columbia is included, Massachusetts's rank was 48th.
Over the four-year period 2003 to 2006, Massachusetts jobs grew by 1.26 percent, well behind the national median of 4.84 percent. In the previous four-year span 1999 to 2002, job growth in the Bay State was just 0.89 percent, but its national rank was 35th.
A comparison between the full-term job growth rankings of Romney and his predecessor, Jane Swift, supports Cutter's point. From one governor's four-year term to the next, Massachusetts's national ranking dropped 13 spots.
Yet, BLS data also reinforce Fehrnstrom's argument. In 2003, Romney's first year in office, the number of jobs in Massachusetts declined by 1.39 percent, ranking it "51 out of 51," as Fehrnstrom said. In 2006, Romney's last full year in office, Massachusetts jobs grew by 1.06 percent, 32nd in the nation. Over the course of Romney's tenure as governor, Massachusetts's annual job growth ranking improved by 19 spots. [Boston Globe, 6/3/12]
Conservative Media Previously Cited MA Unemployment Rate To Obscure Romney's Jobs Record
National Review's Jim Geraghty: "Massachusetts's Unemployment Rate Changed From 5.6 Percent To 4.7 Percent." In a post at National Review Online, contributor Jim Geraghty wrote:
For the Obama campaign and Democrats, it's "Spotlight Romney as Governor" Day.
David Axelrod -- you know, the political strategist who routinely attends national security meetings -- will be in Boston, to hold a press conference in front of the State House in Boston to discuss "Mitt Romney's economic philosophy and his failed economic record in Massachusetts." Axelrod will warn that under Romney, Massachusetts's unemployment rate changed from 5.6 percent to 4.7 percent, and that if elected, Romney would inflict the same pain and suffering to all of America. [National Review Online, 5/31/12]
Economist: Massachusetts' Unemployment Rate Drop A "False Indicator." Economist Andrew Sum argued that "Romney's frequent argument that unemployment dropped during his tenure is a false indicator." He also stated that "the unemployment rate fell only because people were leaving the workforce in droves during Romney's term." [Media Matters, 5/31/12]
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Patriotic Firecracker Man Collectible
Item #97991
Sale Price: $8.99
Original Price: $50.00
Availability: Out of stock. This item is no longer available for purchase.
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Recalling vintage images, this coveted and collectible Bethany Lowe Patriotic Firecracker Man Collectible is a meticulously handcrafted reproduction of dolls by American folk artist Allen Cunningham. Hand-painted resin with fabric garments and pose-able arms. Stands on a pressed-paper box with removable lid. 7.25" to 8"h.
Museum Provenance
Our American History Museum's Warshaw Collection of Business Americana contains late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century seasonal and patriotic ephemera, a number of which feature images of Uncle Sam.
Every Smithsonian purchase will arrive with a museum provenance card explaining how it is adapted from or inspired by an object or objects in our collection.
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Steve,What was the name of the store? I think I have looked everywhere and ended up buy some from Betterbee. I believe I used #8 though instead of #5.
My local independent hardware store has all the different sizes of hardware cloth in stock and they sell it by the foot. It is worth asking around.#8 is good for screen bottom boards, #4 for mouse excluders, and #5 for pollen traps. Assuming not small cell bees.
What would you suggest for use under jars feeders, I am planning designing a feeder arrangement that permits me to feed them thru holes in a top cover but prevents them from coming up thru.cundald


text: The Thief's Curse is a spell that can be applied to books. Its effect is not fully understood, but it activates if someone tries to read a book for too long without paying for it. This curse is known to be imbued on the Hogwarts Library's copy of Quidditch Through the Ages and on Harry Potter's copy of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.


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This is a great survey to use during reading month or anytime you wish students to reflect on their reading habits.
Presents 5 different ideas for a great oral presentation, from "dramatic" (act out a scene or tell the story from a different point of view) to "scrappy" (create a believable scrapbook for one character and be prepared to explain it).Common Core: ELA - RL5.6, RL4.6
Vocabulary development, character study, summarization skills, art, and a special project... all part of this fantastic book report/project. Includes a grading rubric. Common Core: ELA: RI.5.1-3


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The hive I grafted from is the same hive that I put the grafts into. It is queen right and is pretty packed with bees. I grafted 20 and it appears that they are using 10. 50% does not seem to bad for my first time?
My question is being that the hive is queen right and full of bees should I worry about them swarming once the grafts are capped? Is it a bad idea in general to put the grafts into a queen right? Should I pull the queen from the hive and put her into a nuc until the grafts are done?
I took the hive which was a 2 deep hive and took all the eggs and young larva out with the queen and put them in another box and moved them to a different bee yard. I left all the capped brood (so long as it did not have eggs or small larva on the frame also), some open honey, pollen and capped honey in the original hive. So now I have a queen less hive that should be pretty packed with bees. I am going to graft into it again tomorrow hopefully it will turn out better this time.


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Press Release on ECRI's round table in Sweden
Combating racial discrimination and intolerance in Sweden:
Round Table of the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) in Stockholm
Date: 6 November 2013
Venue: Norra Latin - Conference Centre, Drottningatan 71B - Stockholm
Organisers: ECRI in co-operation with the Equality Ombudsman
The participants will discuss the follow-up to the recommendations contained in ECRI's 2012 monitoring report on Sweden. The round table will be divided into four sessions:
The event will commence with welcoming remarks by Eva Smith, Chair of ECRI, and Agneta Broberg, Equality Ombudsman. Opening speeches will be given by Erik Ullenhag, Minister for Integration and Thomas Hammarberg, former Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights. ECRI's report on Sweden will be presented by François Sant'Angelo, ECRI member in respect of Belgium, and Vitaliano Esposito, ECRI member in respect of Italy.
In addition to government officials, the round table will bring together representatives of NGOs and of minority groups. This event aims at contributing positively to the national debate on combating racial discrimination and intolerance in Sweden, as well as raising awareness among the general public about these issues.
In its fourth report on Sweden of June 2012, ECRI expressed its concern about some issues, such as the persistence of antisemitism and Islamophobia, agitation against national or ethnic groups in the press, prejudice against Roma, and discrimination in access to housing, employment and health care.
ECRI also selected three of its recommendations, concerning residential segregation, free medical care for some categories of immigrants without a residence permit and family reunification, for re-examination before the end of next year as part of a process of interim follow-up.
The round table is open to the press. It will start at 9 am and end at 5 pm on Wednesday 6 November 2013.
Link to the programme in:
ECRI is a human rights body of the Council of Europe, composed of independent experts, which monitors problems of racism, xenophobia, antisemitism, intolerance and discrimination on grounds such as "race", national/ethnic origin, colour, citizenship, religion and language (racial discrimination); it prepares reports and issues recommendations to member States.
Press contact: Sylvia Lehmann, Council of Europe, tel: +33 3 88 41 29 64; fax: +33 3 88 41 39 87; email: email@example.com
For more information on ECRI: www.coe.int/ecri


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New 55G Planted Tank, Wouldn't Mind Suggestions!
Hey All,
I am brand new to planted tanks. I have a co-worker friend that started the snowball down hill and I am already addicted. I have a decent amount of hobby flex money and have decided to dump it on my first 55G planted tank. I will post pictures of what I have already purchased and I am already working with. I am open to any and all suggestions. I have a few ideas myself and wanted to share them with you guys to see what you have to say. Hopefully some of you will agree with my ideas and not crush them, but criticism is welcomed. I want to design over the course of the new few months a High Light CO2 tank. I would like to buy some water storage barrels (kind used for emergency water rations). The idea is to have a 55G tank visible, but 2 x 30G barrels in a closet. The inlet/outlet tubes will be glass in the tank and convert to flex tube behind it. The tubes will run into the wall then into the closet. I have designed a schematic for a water leak detection system so it will shut off electricity to everything plugged into it whenever any of the sensors are tripped. My barrel idea is to have an auto-topped-off RODI barrel this will always be filled for quick water changes. The second 30G barrel will be in line with the tank effectively making it a 85G tank to lighten the bio-load. I have researched some on here, but have tons to learn still. I will post some badly drawn pics of my ideas. Please post any suggestions in here and I will run with them. I will also provide as many pics as possible. Thanks in advance!
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a Pic of what I have so far.
Aqueon 55Gal
Aqueon 55Gal Black Stand
All-Glass Tripple T8 8k 32W
Rena XP-3
Hydor 300W
Not sure, donated for Free
Random small log donated for Free
2 Attachment(s)
Here are some diagrams:
Top diagram shows my water loop and RODI system. This system allows for a pump to drain the right barrel. A filter for the barrel with inline heater on the inlet of the filter. A pressurized CO2 system with a diffuser in the barrel. This design uses a high flow pump to move water between tank and barrel creating a live loop of water constantly flowing. The lid is air tight which creates a vacuum to suck water back out of the tank. On the left, there is a constantly topped-off barrel of RODI water and a siphon to pump water out of left barrel into right barrel.
Bottom diagram: This uses a 120v 10amp relay with a 12vdc coil. This allows me to wire a 10 amp power strip into the switch side of the relay. There is a 12vdc power supply that feeds a few leds and the coil. There is also a sponge (rectangle) with leads in it. When water enters the sponge, the circuit is closed. This creates a short and the coil looses power killing the switch and turning off the power to the power strip. This is a leak detection system that automatically kills power to any device plugged into it when a leak is detected. I can add as many sponges in parallel for various areas. All it takes is one sponge for it to kill the circuit.
Let me know if you have any questions and comments and I can explain anything else in more detail.
Hi Matt... sounds like you came from reef keeping?
The bioload you are concerned about isn't nearly as much of a concern with a planted tank. The plants themselves act as natural filters and keep the nutrients out of the water column. We have to dose ferts because the plants literally eat all available nutrients in the water.
I really can't see an advantage in keeping the extra water to cycle through your tank unless you wanted to overly stock your tank with fish. The old 'dilution is the solution to pollution' doesn't exactly apply in a planted tank. With a high-light, high-tech setup you are going for, plants are going to be sucking up those nutrients out of the water. Of course water changes are going to still need to be done and the plants don't remove everything, but I think that extra water would be better off reserved for a water change than cycled into the tank IMO.
I can't comment on the plumbing.. But I understand the badly drawn electronics schematics. :)
Actually, it's not that bad. You're powering the relay coil through a resistor and an LED or two. When the sensor is tripped (closed), it provides a lower-resistance path (and lights a different color LED), which lowers current through the coil enough to deactivate the relay.
Now my question is this... How are you going to implement that sensor? Aquarium water isn't all that conductive.
The primary reason for the 30G barrel tied into the water loop is for fast water changes. I can close two valves on the inlet/outlet lines going to the barrel, flip a sump switch, and then water is evacuated from the barrel. I can then flip another switch and pump RODI clean water into the barrel. Add my ferts and traces. Then run the filter and heater for a bit. Once the water is prepared and ready, I can open the valves and turn on the high power pump again. This prevents any chemical/temperature changes during WC and makes a 30G WC done in less than 10 minutes. With my busy schedule, a complicated high tech system that makes changes quick and easy is a major relief.
:eek: A monster has been created :eek:
I hadn't really thought about the conductivity of the water. :proud: I figured with the two electrodes close enough in a dry sponge. Any water would be enough to complete the circuit. I guess this needs to be tested lol. However, this design is so inexpensive, can't hurt to try. Any electrical suggestions are apprecited. :red_mouth
Actually pulling it all off is a cool idea. Nothing wrong with making water changes easier. :proud:
The thicker the sponge, the more resistance when wet. So perhaps create a sandwich of aluminum window screen separated by a thin piece of fabric. This would allow creation of a large sensor.
Still, the wet resistance will be very high. You might be able to enhance it by pre-soaking the fabric in salt water, then allowing it to dry. If it gets wet again, salt water conducts electricity pretty well; though I'm not sure if this will reduce resistance enough to successfully deactivate the relay in the configuration you propose. As you said, it's a cheap experiment, so feel free to try and let us know if it works.
A possible further refinement: Build the screen/fabric sandwich, pretreated with salt, as described. Power one side with 12VDC. The other side goes to the base of a simple one-transistor amplifier. A low current will be enough to activate the transistor, which is connected to the relay coil. When activated, the relay will connect the hot and ground AC wires through a suitable resistor. This creates exactly the kind of fault that a GFI is designed to protect against. So if you replace your wall outlet with a GFI, and the leak detector triggers, the GFI will trip until manually reset; cutting off power to everything including the sensor. GFIs are recommended for aquariums anyway, as they protect you from other disasters. :)
That's some great stuff Dark! I will experiment will the sponges and aluminum sandwiches and see what works best. I like the GFI idea ALOT, but am a lil more scared with essentially shorting a high voltage circuit than a low voltage circuit. Although, from the theory behind it, your idea is WAY more safe than mine is. Can't wait to start experimenting. I've got some flex money coming in and I'm on vacation from the 14th - 31st, so plenty of time to build and play with the aquarium. I'm designing all of the electrical into a project box of sorts that will be mounted with the barrels. Toggel switches and LEDs galore! I'll post more pics and ideas as the become available. This isn't really a speculation thread either, I will be working on this pretty much daily, and I have already started purchasing the required electronics to make this work. Thanks for all of your suggestions so far guys! Please keep them coming! I could used some aquarium suggestions too! Fish, plants, lights, anything will be welcomed.
The resistor I mentioned limits the current to be just high enough for the GFI to detect. According to Wikipedia:
"In the United States, the National Electrical Code requires GFCI devices intended to protect people to interrupt the circuit if the leakage current exceeds a range of 46 mA of current (the trip setting is typically 5 mA) within 25 ms."
To make darn sure the GFI trips, cause 10ma to flow. Ohm's law tells us we need a 12k resistor. That resistor will be dissipating only 1.2W, which is perhaps not the "short" with obligatory sparks and smoke you might have been picturing. :)
And it will be doing so for less than 25ms; so although a common 1/4W resistor would survive that current for that time, I would use a 2W resistor just in case the GFI is defective and fails to trip.
Dark, Well Put! Your right, for some strange reason, I did picture sparks, dead bodies, and 10 foot flames with a 120v short. But anywhoo... Thats a great idea on the resistor, clearly overlooked that part lol. I'm sure I can order that resistor with the relay and try a few configurations out. I was planning on putting in a GFI outlet where the tank is regardless, so this is even better...Thank you!
A few more scattered thoughts:
Figure #3 here is a perfect example of the transistor circuit you'll need. Replace R1 with the moisture sensor, and the other side of the sensor (the one not connected to the base of the transistor) will actually be connected to the DC ground (not 12VDC as I earlier said). Get two of those transistors - if you need even more sensitivity, you can connect the transistors as a Darlington pair for higher amplification.
If there's any chance water can trickle down the wires that attach to your electrical box, make sure to use drip loops - basically just a loop of wire hanging down that water will drip off of at the bottom of the loop, instead of travelling all the way into the box.
Some other good electronics sources for basic components - look into Electronics Goldmine, BG Micro, and Sparkfun. Mouser, Newark, and Digikey have fantastic selection; but as you've seen, they can be overwhelming.
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henry philips
Comedy & Everything Else Ep # 156 Henry Philips Mike MaCraeComedy and Everything Else Episode 156 Henry Philips
This Week: The star of the movie "Punching The Clown", winner of the audience award at the Slamdance film festival
- Do you like funny songs? Henry plays FOUR of the funniest songs you will ever hear!
- Henry has a "Verb" for you.
- Mike MaCrae does "Dueling Henry's"!
- Hear how Henry lost all control of his Bodily Functions


text:
|Topic Review (Newest First)
I really liked my Smooth Fox Terriers. They can be challenging---mainly because they are so extremely smart and energetic. They can be out the door and three miles down the road before you can even get your hat on.
And their minds work just as fast as their legs.
They are excellent at agility which requires just as much training as it does physical ability. So are Shelties.
The size of the dog makes no difference for training.
It seems to me that what you are really complaining about is owners who do not train their dogs to behave. You'll find just as many of those with large dogs as small dogs-----although I think it is more common for small dog owners to make excuses for themselves.
|I have a Cavelier Spaniel, and she is quite well behaved. She knows to stay, sit, lay down, heel, come, up, down, and a few tricks. She also responds to go home and can handle taking commands from a distance. She does well on and off the leash. I also have a large dog, Standard Poodle, who is well trained in obedience. I can walk both of them down the street without issue. As a matter of fact, there is a woman in my neighborhood who walks three very large dogs - Yellow Lab and two mastiff type breeds/mixes. They pull her down the road and the lab is off leash. My girls walk right through the chaos without adding to it and have actually helped her with her dogs by not reacting to their behavior. Additionally, my neighborhood is like a dog park. The girls love going out in the front yard because there are always dogs wondering the neighborhood who belong to my neighbors. There are two miniature Schnauzers, Labradoodle,a mix breed, and many others. My girls love it! They play with the dogs and when I say, "Go inside" they stop what they are doing and immediately go inside. As for the large dog bowling over the little dog, yes my Poodle runs over my little dog sometimes but she doesn't get hurt (believe me my Cavi would let me know if she did since she's not a tough dog). We will be adding a GSD to the mix and hope she will be as well rounded and comfortable as my current dogs.
Originally Posted by Mikelia View Post
I could not help but share this video :P
Claudia Romard & Mr. Murphy - YouTube
(sorry, I don't know how to imbed them)
His performance may not be worth a perfect score, but that is one highly trained small dog
I am a groomer and manage a pet retail store and I know quite a few really nice small dogs, it all depends on how much work the owner puts into the dog and how much they treat their pet like a 'dog' and not a 'little human'. I also know quite a few badly behaved large dogs whose owners treat them like a little human as well though - it all just depends on the owner.
Edit - apparently just putting the link will imbed it haha, who knew.
LARHAGE, I agree 100%. I have 4 GSDs and 2 toy poodles. My dogs all get along, no issues. The poodles are well-trained, as are the GSDs.
But do you know how many times larger dogs run up full speed and just bowl a smaller breed right over? It seems like it happens every day at our dog park, and then when the littler dog comes up growling or snapping to get some space the large breed owner tends to say something like "Oh, my dog just wants to play, he's friendly, honest! Why is yours such a brat?" Just one reason I don't take my poodles to our dog park anymore and haven't for years.
I'd hate to have one of my poodles get smooshed by an overly hyper untrained 100+ lb. Lab while the owner's busy yelling from a distance "Don't worry, he just wants to play!" Same for me, do you have any idea how many times the same dog comes up and leaps all over me, or the friends I'm with? Happens almost every time. 80-100 lbs. hitting you at warp speed really hurts!
Unfortunately, untrained dogs come in all shapes and sizes!
|I've run into just as many idiot big dogs with my small dogs, stupid owners think it's funny letting their big ugly stupid lugs get into my little terriers faces than get offended when the terriers snap at them to get the **** out of their face, believe me , small dogs and their owners don't have the stupidity market cornered, it's a two way street!!!!!
|AW, my little guy is a mix - not tiny, but small. He is probably beagle and JRT (and other stuff.) He is awesome. He knows all his commands and tons of tricks. Best of all, he LOVES all other dogs - big small, male, female. He gets along with everybody.
Originally Posted by erfunhouse View Post
I've never seen a well behaved small dog. Everyone in the family had been bitten by the neighbors malti-whatever.
Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now
|Lucy Dog
Originally Posted by erfunhouse View Post
I've never seen a well behaved small dog. Everyone in the family had been bitten by the neighbors malti-whatever.
Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now
I've seen a lot of little yappy dogs, but I've also seen a lot of pretty poorly trained and behaved big dogs too. I actually find the big dogs to be worse than the little ones. At least the poorly behaved little ones are easier to control. You get an out of control big dog running at you and there's going to be problems.
I've never seen a well behaved small dog. Everyone in the family had been bitten by the neighbors malti-whatever.
Metro 10/2005-5/2013
Sabo 3/2013-now
Kia 1/2014- now
The small dogs that live in our neighborhood are treated like cats and allowed to roam. It drives me insane.
I have a coworker who has two pugs. She is an interesting character. She used to have a Doberman that was trained in competitive obedience and she was very good at handling him, apparently. But her pugs are completely out of control. She kind of shrugs it off and says she is a "different kind of dog owner now." I actually like her pugs and think they are cute. It does seem that people often adopt small dogs precisely because they think it abdicates them of certain responsibilities.
I have seen an awful lot of small dogs that seem downright neurotic, probably due to neglect and not their size.
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About ECRI
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Council of Europe's Anti-Racism Commission publishes new report on Turkey
Strasbourg, 08.02.2011 – The European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) today published a new report on Turkey. ECRI's Chair, Nils Muiznieks, said that, while there have been improvements in certain areas, some issues give rise to concern, such as the situation of the Kurds, Roma and asylum-seekers, discrimination against members of minority religious groups and misuse of criminal law provisions.
The authorities have taken welcome steps to improve dialogue not only with recognised non-Muslim minorities but also with the Kurds, Roma and Alevis. The "democratic initiative" launched by the government for addressing unresolved issues with respect to Kurds through peaceful methods, and similar initiatives have helped to build a greater willingness in Turkish society to discuss issues of concern to persons belonging to minority groups.
Some of the most flagrant forms of discrimination have been criminalised, and training has been provided to the judiciary on human rights standards in force. Efforts have also been made to prevent misconduct by law enforcement officers, including against members of minority groups.
Individuals have however continued to be punished for expressing peaceful views and aspirations as members of minority groups in Turkey, and the application of anti-terror provisions has exposed some groups – notably Kurdish children – to a greater risk of breaches of their rights. Many Kurds moreover continue to live in difficult economic and social conditions; while welcome steps are in place to help internally displaced persons return, obstacles remain and progress is slow. The Roma also still suffer discrimination in many fields of daily life, and remain exposed to forced evictions.
Refugees recognised by the UNHCR have only a precarious status in Turkey, and asylum-seekers have suffered from serious failings in the applicable legal provisions and procedures. While benefiting from some favourable provisions, recognised non-Muslim minorities in Turkey face difficulties in education due to a lack of teachers and textbooks. Non-Muslim foundations' property rights remain an issue. There have also been fatal attacks and serious assaults against individuals that appear to have had a religious motivation.
In its report, ECRI makes a number of recommendations, among which the following three will be revisited in two years' time:
The report, including Government observations, is available here [report on Turkey]. It was prepared following ECRI's contact visit to Turkey in October 2009 and takes account of developments up to March 2010.
ECRI is a human rights body of the Council of Europe, composed of independent experts, which monitors problems of racism, discrimination on grounds of ethnic origin, citizenship, religion and language, as well as xenophobia, antisemitism and intolerance, prepares reports and issues recommendations to member States.
For more information on ECRI: www.coe.int/ecri
Press contact: Stefano Valenti, Tel: +33 (0)3 90 21 43 28, email@example.com


text: With an altitude varying between 485 metres and 500 metres, Pewsey Vale sits 250 metres above the Barossa Valley floor. The cooler temperatures found at this height encourage a longer ripening period which extends well into autumn. This longer ripening period is essential for producing superior quality grapes with exceptional flavour and character - hallmarks of Pewsey Vale wines. Block to block variation enables winemakers to select from separate parcels of fruit to tailor wines to the Pewsey Vale style, ensuring consistency from vintage to vintage.


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We are rapidly approaching the point where we will have to make a decision-to obey the law (The United States Constitution) or to obey a despotic dictator. The current administration is rapidly moving to convert this country into a tyrannical dictatorship that is far from the freedom that the Founding Fathers left us.
The United States of America (USA) and the United Nations (UN) are like Siamese twins that are joined at the head. The United nations is probably the most evil government agency in history. Their goal-like that of many evil leaders before them-is to conquer the world. They are on the verge of doing just that! Little stands in their way. The last vestiges of American freedom is the only obstacle that the UN has to overcome. And, the current administration is working feverishly on that.
When Obamma was running for President, he wrote a book. In it, he stated that he hates the Constitution because it limits what the government can do... For once, he is right! That was the entire purpose of the Constitution. It was NOT designed to control the citizens, but was designed to ...chain up the government... (Thomas Jefferson). But, today the Federal (and most states) are grinding our Rights under their jack-booted heels. Although they took an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution, few actually mean it.
I feel that this country is rapidly approaching a point of no return in becoming a Socialist Peoples Republic. If you study the Communist Manifesto you will see that many of Karl Marx proposals are every day business as usual in America. And, I feel that every Congressman, every Senator, the Supreme Court, the Vice-President and the President ALL know this! Their oath to uphold the Constitution was nothing but a LIE!


text: Now in your cart 0 items Currencies: U.S. DollarAED Advanced Search Log In Create an Account Shipping & Returns Homepage What's New? Specials Reviews About Us Contact Us Top » Catalog » Boards & Flip Chart » Glass Board » SMV 14700.20 This product was added to our catalog on Saturday 28 March, 2015. SMIT Glass Board Magnetic 90cm x 120cm White[SMV 14700.20] Price: AED835.00 • Stylish White glass whiteboards are a true asset for any workplace. They are magnetic, writable and dry erasable. The glass whiteboards are coated on the back to ensure clear legibility and can, therefore, be positioned against any colored background wall. • This modern Glass boards are made from hardened safety glass • Very exclusive design; elegant colored writable glass surface and stylish aluminum colored suspension points. • 4 mm glass plate with a 0.5 mm galvanized steel plate with a scratch-proof coating. • Includes: glass tray, 1 magnetic eraser, 5 round magnets and suspension material for installation on a stone wall. Distance between the wall and the glass board: 2.5 cm. • Made in Spain Reviews Add to Cart Display Systems Office Supplies, Stationery Papers & Rolls Office Machines Boards & Flip Chart Board Accessories Corkboards / Pin Boards Flipchart Glass Board Magic Whiteboard Monthly & Yearly Planners Noticeboards Presentation Boards Whiteboards Office Furniture Printers & Multifunction Desktop & Monitors IT Accessories Toners & Cartridges Laptops & Notebooks Manufacturers Please Select3MAcerAFAlba RadoAlphaAnchorArtlineAsusAveryBaijiaBantexBi-OfficeBieffeBrotherCanonCasioCassidaCelloCitizenColopDacDahleDatalogicDeflectoDeliDELLDeluxeDollarDorsDouble ADSBDurableDYMOEagleElbaEnergizerEpsonExcelProFaber CastellFellowesFISFLOORTEXGalaxyGBCHitachiHoneywellHPHSMHysoonImationInfoJKKangaroKobraKyoceraLaurelLegamasterLeitzLenovoLexmarkLightLogitechMagnetoplanMaxMaxiMercuryMFMicro MeilonMotorolaNatarajNEOLTOfficeMateOKIOlympiaOmegaPanasonicPeachPeakPegasusPelikanPilotPremierPrestarRapidReflexRex-RotaryRexelRibaoRicohRoyal ExecutiveRoyal SovereignSamsungSAXSentinelSentrySharpSinarSmart CopySmitSPSStaedtlerSunshineTarifoldTexasToshibaTPPSUHUUniballUnibindUnistarUnitedValbergView PlanVistaplanXeroxZebra Share Product Tweet Specials Advanced Search Reviews Create an Account Log In Shipping & Returns About Us Contact Us Copyright © 2017 Stationery Dubai Privacy Notice | Conditions of Use | Sitemap tweet text


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Careers in Mathematics
Graduates of our degree programs have been admitted with assistantships to a number of excellent doctoral programs in mathematics, including those at the University of Minnesota, the University of California at Santa Barbara and the University of Iowa.
Skill in mathematics is also valued in today's work world. Many Duquesne mathematics graduates with dual degrees in education are employed as teachers at the secondary level. Math students who also have studied business now work in finance, actuarial science and corporate tax services at Xerox, Liberty Mutual and other organizations.
Visit Duquesne's Career Services for more information on
- skills you will acquire as a mathematics major;
- potential careers you'll be qualified to begin;
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St. Anselm associate AD Guimont to retire
Since beginning her tenure in 1976, the Manchester, native held many titles including head coach of the women's basketball (336-135 career record), volleyball and softball teams, in addition to athletic trainer, assistant director of intramural and recreational sports and equipment manager.
Guimont was a fixture on the Hilltop through four athletic directors - and seven U.S. Presidents - and held every position in the athletic department except for athletic director and sports information director.
Guimont became the first woman, first coach and first non-graduate of St. Anselm to be inducted into the college's athletics hall of fame. She has also been enshrined in the Queen City Hall of Fame, New England Basketball Hall of Fame, Northeast-10 Conference Hall of Fame and the New Hampshire Union Leader "Parade of Champions."


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|Topic Review (Newest First)
Those heads will work fine if you open the runners up, raise the roof of the port as much as possible for the entire length of the runner, narrow the port divider to 1/8" and work in from there being careful not to cut into the headbolt hole, leave the port floor alone except for blending to short turn into the bowl, match your intake to the new roof height and divider width. Unshroud those valves out to the bore line not gasket line. Blend your lower cut below the seat into the bowl. They'll work fine and probably end up at a 170ish intake port volume. The set I did the chambers CC'd at exactly 64 after the deshrouding and a .030 mill. I did spend a ridiculous 30+ hours on the ports though . If you do the port work make some go/no go guages out of heavy wire so you can check dimensions as you cut- this way the ports will be more equal when done.
The 750 VS carbs do seem to have a really rich idle circuit and with your cam the overlap isn't helping much. I bet if you open up the secondary throttle blades just a tad with the setscrew adjustment in the baseplate and readjust your air/fuel mixture screws the richness will drop quite a bit. If this problem is related to rpms below 2500rpms I'd say it's more than likely an idle circuit problem. Make sure your idle mixture is on before making jet changes. JMO's Bob
|Walt B
RE: Carb Jetting
I know you were asking about carb jetting but after looking at your engine specs I think you should go in another direction. If the # of your head is 367450, my books show that is off a 75-76 262 ci. It is for a very small smog engine, the port volumes are so small they will never move enough air to take advantage of the cam you picked. That cam runs from 1600-6000 rpm with a healthy duration, cyl heads and cam is where you want to spend the money for performance. Those heads were designed for a very small bore, I assume you are building a 350, so those chambers will over hang in a 4.00 or 4.030 bore. Also since you have a manual trans, forget the 4160--get a 650 or 750 DP which will make more power, but I would replace those heads if it was possible.
Thanks guys. I'm not going to have the money to convert to a 4150 right now because of the rest of my engine I had to throw money into rebuilding but I will check everything out in there.
People keep telling me that 72's arent that big and pretty standard, so I dunno but from the get-go I always figured the 750 was a little big for my combo anyways so maybe thats why its running rich. I'm hoping my little mods here and there will allow me to pick up some extra power and put that 750 to use.
As far as the porting goes, ive done quite a bit of reading about it. I don't plan on hogging out the runners at all, a light polish on the intake side and a smoother polish on the exaust. My idea is cleaning out the port a little, grind enough to match the intake runners between intake manif. and heads (top of head runners come in and are actually smaller), and deshroud the valves as well as polish up the bowl. The heads were from a 305 so when the 2.02/1.6 valves were installed they have a good bit of shoruding
I agree. Just drop two jet sizes and see how it reacts. Then you can go down one or two more if it needs it. 68 is not an uncommon primary jet to run.
I would also offer a word of caution on the head porting. Dont do anything extravegant. Search for "pocket porting" or "bowl porting" on this site and you will find lots of information. That and the gasket matching are all you want to do without a flow bench. Just hogging out the ports could end you up with a real dog or useless heads.
4160 series Holley means only 1 metering plate with changeable jets. The rear is a plate ( which can be changed.......complete plate for plate )
Holley sells a kit to convert your 4160 to a 4150. The kit has another metering plate for the secondary (rear) side with changeable jets. I did this to mine.
I would just convert the 4160 to a 4150, drop 2 jet sizes and try it....
Holley also sells a jet assortment box...for about $40...with 30 sets or so
Lot less expensive than buying them at $5 a set
carb jetting (4160)
Ok so this is my first time messing with the internals of my carb. I have a Holley 4160 750cfm carb. I think I have been needing to change the jetting because it has been running awful rich. Today i pulled the bowls off, I see two jets on the primary side bowl and none in the secondary (just a plate thing). This is a newb question, but are both jets in the primary bowl for primary or is one secondary? How does that work?
Also, the two jets were both 72's... what number jets should I switch to? It ran ok, but stumbled a bit when I floored it at low rpm in higher gears, also lined the combustion chambers of the heads with black sut as well as header ports.
To add to the equation, while the engine is apart im upgrading from the regular edelbrock performer to the performer RPM manifold as well as gasket matching and home-porting the heads. The heads were from a 305 for higher compression and didn't notice the intake runners didn't match the intake manifold's runners until now. I am considering upgrading to 1.6 ratio rockers as well to get a little more cam lift. I don't know if this will be enough of a difference so that the engine will actually be able to use the #72 jets or if I should still use smaller??
Here's my engine's specs:
Holley 750cfm 4160 (vac sec)
Edelbrock performer rpm intake
Comp XE274 cam, 230/236, .490/.490 lift
#450 heads, 64cc chambers, 2.02/1.60 valves, home porting
Comp ratio 9:1
Manual 5sp tranny (NV3500)
Thanks guys,
Any tips?
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Checker for Sale
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1982 Checker Marathon Limousine
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1982 Checker A12E Marathon Limousine One of 13 such models made in 1982, the final year of production in Kalamazoo, MI Dark Green with full black vinyl... More
Offered By: MotoeXotica Classic Cars
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1970 Checker
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This car was restored in 1988 using two original Checker Cab Company vehicles. The engine is a Chevrolet 350CI 4-bolt main motor with performance... More
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1974 Checker Taxi V8 , automatic transmission, power sterring, good condition. Sacrifice at $10,000.00 Call Jerry 201-784-0030... More
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Primrose Peasant Karly Top
Out of Stock
- Pattern placement may vary slightly for individual style, so no two tops are quite alike.
- Iridescent shell buttons.
- Banded neckline and button cuffs with shirred styling.
- Split hem.
- Length: 24" to 27".
- 100% polyester.
- Machine wash. Imported.


text:
Comments for individual derby entries are placed in this thread.
Re: Cosa Nostra Grammatica
Thanks to all who helped in the pre-derby thread!
In the end, I went with red, because of the symbolism (and family arm-twisting), though I liked the blue slightly better...
This design is a parody of the Raised Fist motif used in a lot of socialist and labor-related propaganda-style designs (See the Wikipedia Article on the use of this symbolism.). (So, yes, before some Einstein points out that the fist bears a similarity to the Raised Fist icon, the similarity is intentional, but not a direct copy - similar to, but not as blatant as, PP's design a couple of weeks ago.
In the end, I much liked the alliteration of the last letters, and the better flow of the Italian.
Re: Sidekicks
This society was formed because:
You don't think they actually want to be number 2 do you?
Re: Time Travel is Cool
Time travel is cool. Just don't tell anyone, it's our secret.
Re: Keepers of the Sacred Words
An Illuminati seal for the Knights and their mysterious/nonsensical order.
Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Hypothetically speaking...
Re: Apathy Society, or Whatever.
Is it cool to be part of Apathy Society? Meh. It is what it is.
Pipes hear everything, they know your secrets! Fear them!! Hope you like it
Ha! Love your sense of humor.
Re: Elders of the Internet
"Don't believe anyone that says they don't exist. It's not a conspiracy, man. I'm telling you. They have a Secret Society running the internet. I've heard they meet at Big Ben."
This design is based on the awesome TV show "The IT Crowd"
Re: Trooptroops Klan
The dark side is under risk!Hope you like this silly design!
Re: Mystical Monks Of Siam
Welcome, seeker, to the mystical Monks Of Siam, an ancient order who possesses what ye seek. To enter the inner circle, you must bow before the sacred Siamese Goose and repeat the sacred chant - "Owah Tagu Siam!".
Re: Internet Grammar Police Department
They aren't real police, they don't have badges, and they hide behind screen names.
Re: The Magickal Society & Royal Order of 19
Inspired by The Dark Tower series...
All Things Serve the Beam!
Re: Castle Masons
Thanks to Neuro and Orabbit for helping out with this.
Maybe since you're not American, you don't realize how horrible and offensive this is. Please delete it.
wirdou wrote:Pipes hear everything, they know your secrets! Fear them!! Hope you like it
This is very well done! Good job!
Re: The Pyros
This design is for the fire-lovers.
Pi-Rho (for Pyro), and Delta (the symbol often used for heat in chemistry).
Re: Cult of Cathulhu
Hello! I made a Cathulhu. I just couldn't stop myself...
Hope y'all like it!
Re: Celestial Antiquities Guild
Armillary goodness.
This fire effect is getting old.
tjschaeffer wrote:Ha! Love your sense of humor.
Tee hee. :D
Bring them a shrubbery.
Re: The Machine Collective
Silently waiting for us to develop Artificial Intelligence.
ignorant wrote:This fire effect is getting old.
Sorry, TN - it's a design I did several months ago, while experimenting with the effect, halftones, etc., and it is actually relevant to the design, itself.
Now, if it were written using Greek letters, it would be absolutely perfect...my husband uses this as his introduction to Greek in Sunday School classes for youth and senior adults.
Re: The Plumbers
Excellent work Pablo. Great textures!
Re: Ambigram
Plan to Rule the world from the Shadows???
Step 1 : Think of a cool name
Step 2: Think of a cool way to write your name
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
Some Secret Societies never get much past Step 2….
Re: CHESS CLUB
If your high school was anything like mine, being in Chess Club was a secret you took with you to your grave…
Re: The Society of Adventuring Doctors
Cool, but this is testing Rejectinator's waters...
I actually snorted with laughter when I saw this; unfortunately, I was holding my water glass and my allergies are acting up today... so I need to go get myself a snot-free glass of water.
omarfeliciano wrote:Cool, but this is testing Rejectinator's waters...
I think I got so absorbed by drawing everyone that I didn't stop to think about the Rejectionator. If it happens, it happens.
Radscoolian wrote:I think I got so absorbed by drawing everyone that I didn't stop to think about the Rejectionator. If it happens, it happens.
Dang. That was quick.
Re: The Servants Of The Light
4 colors on White, hope you like it :D
Re: Phi Betta Katta --Secret Honor Society of Cats
we had a hard time getting the picture down to the 500k limit to submit the entry ..sorry if it looks small, this is our first entry to a derby!
That looks a lot like
Re: Dark Society Members
The Dark Society Members.
ochopika wrote:Hello! I made a Cathulhu. I just couldn't stop myself...
Hope y'all like it!
Well, you GMV anyway.
One More Friday Gone. Yes.
Re: ADD SCHISM
Just thought that I would give a shout out to all the ADD peeps in the world. A good shirt to illustratFRENCH FRIES, oh can I have some. I know, but I forgot my lunch. Thanks. HMMMM... What was I saying.
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