text:
|Topic Review (Newest First)
|Henry Highrise
|I do not really understand the reasoning for wanting to separate the beginning hotrodders from the more experianced....Hotrodding Basics.....Hotrodding General Tech........That just seems like it goes against what this site is supposed to be about. In my mind...the best way for a beginner to learn is to mingle with the experianced folks. Am I missing something here?
The sticky problem of 'what is a frame' when monocoque construction is considered had to be addressed. Wrestling with that is what took me to the 5 main categories.
1. Strip everything off that is not essential for it to be an automobile and you're left with "Chassis - Running Gear". (Even a steering wheel is not essential; you can find a rolling chassis in one of the journals with a pair of vise grips clamped to the stub of shaft where a column should be). Thus, if someone is wanting to chop, section, lengthen, shorten or otherwise attack a unit body with a sawzall, that discussion would be here instead of "Body", because it is structural in nature, not just payload hauling.
2. Everything that is used for hauling the payload (people or cargo) goes into "Body". Glass, doors, trim, painting, seats, hood, trunk, etc., as well as any alterations to these land in here.
3. Most automobiles have a complete auxiliary power system that is not essential for it to be an automobile -- "Electrical". This uses tools, techniques, skills, devices and planning that are unique and distinct from all other categories. (Note that the starting and charging systems could actually, logically, belong with "Chassis - Running Gear", but most people seeking help with an electrical problem would look here first).
4. Everybody has to be some place and a garage is a hotrodder's natural habitat. It takes tools to work on automobiles, hence, "Garage - Tools".
5. Even though the above 4 main groups should enclose everything about an automobile and working on one, as sure as there is no miscellaneous category, someone will come up with a question that doesn't fit the four, so "Hotrodding Basics - General - Miscellaneous". The first two parts of that name are there only to tie the forum to its roots as "Hotrodding Basics" and "General Rodding Tech".
I can visualize 5 separate 3D images representing those, used as a navigational aid for Hotrodders.com. Clicking a "site help" link would give the Hotrodders.com logo with 5 line drawing images below it, each a link to the 5 main tech categories. Add a 6th image of guys standing around a table, holding coffee cups, looking over the shoulder of someone sketching a hotrod, for "General Discussion" area.
My thinking there was that the new forum would begin to accumulate new discussions immediately. Until the historical threads could be moved from "Suspension - Brakes - Steering", the search query for the new forum could search all of "Chassis - Running Gear". This would deal with the bulk of historical threads about frames that have landed in various other fora as people looked for some place to ask about repair, design or modification of frames.
(Side-track: "fora" is in several dictionaries, but "forums" seems more popular. Had to check because I used "fora" in an email once and someone thought I was trying to speak Portugese. I'm trying to switch, though).
I'm going to have to think about that more to understand the implications. Webserver redirection can provide the transitioning, by keeping the historical discussions accessible via any old links out there. Search engines will handle the new information just as they do now, regardless of where it appears to members. The actual presentation of the new structure (the most important part of making it self-sorting) and even the database manipulation is not that complex, but I can see there is much more to work on regarding link stability. Somewhere in a past thread, you told me about the database structure. I'll dig that up and chew on it some more.
|Henry Highrise
|All that needs to be done on the Site Suggestions and Help forum is change the Forum title to.....Site Help and Suggestions. Thats my opinion.
Your suggested structure seems like it could solve most of the organizational issues at hand. I like the core "Chassis/Body" dichotomy. "Basics/General/Misc" groups the inexperienced and less knowledgeable guys in with the various guys seeking help with a "misc" question that may or may not be "basic" in nature, which I don't like.
When we create a new forum, we need to move all previously-posted threads on that forum's topic into that forum. "Move archived threads at leisure" would mean that the forum-specific search results would be inaccurate until the job was done. That's the unavoidable manual labor task, and it has to be done "up-front", and preferably, not done for a long time again -- not to mention that forum name changes mean url changes, which means that the traffic will have to be redirected to the new urls, so previous search engine rankings will be compromised.
It will probably necessitate the creation of a special interface where the title and first post of a thread are displayed, with buttons to click to transfer it to X or Y forum.
"Site Help" forums have a tendency to attract OT questions (I noticed this in passing checking out similar forums on the Crankshaft Coalition Master List of Hotrodding Forums), although I do think that your suggestion to drop "Help" will ~help~ the situation. Otherwise, we have a decent ratio of proper question placement.
Not an analysis, but some numbers that _may_ be illustrative:
25 threads showing on the first page of "Site Suggestions and Help", ignoring the 'sticky' threads, as I write this.
1 is spam
10 are clearly not appropriate for this forum
10/25 = 40% mis-posted.
Good to see you post again, Jon. I was beginning to think you had been kidnapped by a horde of monkeyboys. (Only half joking, there -- was worried that Discovery had tried some legal trickery that was taking all your time. Note that SCOG in SCO v. IBM has managed to keep a case going for 4 years without presenting a shred of evidence of wrongdoing on IBM's part. A sleazy lawyer + a sleazy client can cause all kinds of trouble for decent folks, whether lawyers or clients).
Much of the reorganization suggested requires changing the presentation of fora in, for example, the drop-down selection list. The proposed reorganization minimizes disruption to the existing structure, including the amount of time required to re-sort existing threads.
The way the General Discussion items are presented makes it clear that "Introduce Yourself" and "Off-topic" are part of the "Hotrodders' Lounge". The other General Discussion items, "Hotrod Art", "Site Suggestions and Help", and "The Dump", are clearly distinct from the Lounge. This visual cue helps direct traffic.
Goiing from the existing structure to the proposed would require:
1. Creation of the containing forum "Chassis - Running Gear".
2. Moving, as-is and in its entirety, the "Suspension - Brakes - Steering" forum into "Chassis - Running Gear".
3. Moving, as-is and in its entirety, the "Engine" forum into "Chassis - Running Gear".
4. Moving, as-is and in its entirety, the "Transmission - Rearend" forum into "Chassis - Running Gear".
5. Rename "Transmission - Rearend" to "Transmission - Driveline - Differential".
6. Creation of the containing forum "Body".
7. Moving, as-is and in its entirety, "Body - Exterior" into "Body".
8. Moving, as-is and in its entirety, "Interior" into "Body".
9. Merging of "Hotrodding Basics" and "General Rodding Tech" into "Hotrodding Basics - General - Miscellaneous".
10. Creation of new, empty fora:
"Structure - Frame or Unit - Fuel storage" in "Chassis - Running Gear"
"Tires - Wheels" in "Chassis - Running Gear"
11. Alter menus to reflect the new structure.
12. Move archived threads at leisure, as need is discovered. For example, as a thread about frame boxing is found in "Suspension - Brakes - Steering", move it into "Structure - Frame or Unit - Fuel storage".
Note that this plan _avoids_ a "huge job" of manual sorting of archived threads and actually allows "go[ing] back".
(No, I didn't plan for it to come out as a 12-step program; it just happened. 'My name is grouch and I have a problem with tools and cars.')
The proposed plan of reorganization likewise minimizes the impact on the KB. Depending on how existing fora are moved, some links may need to change to reflect the new parent-child relationship of some fora. This can be automated, with the process being thoroughly tested offline before implementation.
Working out details for the reorganization, in threads like this, will help ensure that it accomplishes its intended mission -- encouraging self-sorting by members -- before requiring the backend and database work that implements the reorganization. In other words, the process of evolving from current structure to a new structure and the new structure itself has to be refined, hashed out, among the members, mostly, with direction from you only occasionally, if it appears to be headed toward an unworkable solution.
If you say it absolutely will not be done, or what is suggested cannot be done, then it's the end of discussion.
On the other hand, if sorting of discussions is to be a grass-roots job, i.e., self-sorting, and if there is a problem with current self-sorting that is significant enough to warrant reorganization, then the structure that is to come out of such reorganization must evolve from grass-roots discussion.
1. There appears to be a significant number of discussions started in the wrong places.
2. The current organization appears to be partly responsible for 1.
3. The proposed reorganization structure intends to help with that problem.
4. Moving from the current structure to a new one must minimize disruption, minimize the work required to implement it, provide for long-term growth and maximize the potential to fix the existing problem.
5. Debate and discussion, by as many as have an interest, of any new structure can help ensure that the new structure makes sense to those who will use it.
6. Our resident marketer spanker and Goliath slayer can help ensure the discussion is not headed down a dead-end street.
(That last bullet point is not as tongue-in-cheek as it may appear. No restructuring, however popular, can succeed if it requires the database and other software to do something impossible or if it requires so much of a load on moderators or other volunteers that it is simply impractical. That determination requires someone with a clear view from the other side of the web interface. Sorry, Jon, but you appear to be the only one of us around here who fits that job description).
Agreed that we need to re-organize. I have another thread about this same topic bookmarked.
The reason it hasn't yet been done is that it's a huge job, and, once it's done we can't reasonably go back. So it has to be very well thought-out and planned. Re-organization will require moving thousands of old threads to their new categories. This will necessitate volunteer or hired labor, probably in the neighborhood of at least a few hundred man-hours. As a basic example, let's say we split Suspension-Brakes-Steering into 3 categories: "Suspension", "Brakes", and "Steering". Then, we'll need to go into the Suspension-Brakes-Steering forum, read EVERY thread, and place it in its new proper category. Same with any future subdivisions.
Current tasks right now are dealing with Discovery, doing some touchups on the Knowledge Base (mostly SEO work, but it needs to be done -- the KB is becoming a force, with almost half a million clicks sent out to listed sites), launching Youngrodders, taking on 6 new moderators, and analyzing grouch's work on the journal software. Until ALL of that is done, I'm not taking on any significant new projects.
And yes, I realize that once we establish a new organization system, the KB will also have to be re-organized.
I don't want to get too deep into this discussion now. I know that the "chassis/frame/suspension" nomenclature needs some attention, as does the "engine electrical/chassis electrical" division. "Hotrodding Basics" is a another thorny issue, as is any "General" forum. I will say that I disagree with a health/safety forum. I don't see much post volume on that issue, and I think it can be more appropriately handled with a lengthy wiki article.
Not to rain on the idea too much, but ...
So, to end confusion, we go from 15 forums to 25 forums while dropping all of the General Discussion forums? How many threads would the 15000 - More lamps / clocks forum have in a year's time?
Ford's system is essentially an accounting system adapted to inventory control. It works for its intended purpose of keeping track of parts. It doesn't work so well for a growing body of information about custom vehicle work.
Organizing the information has to consider the state it is in now as well as how it might grow. Using the fine-grained categories of an inventory control system at the beginning will increase the complexity while leaving many categories nearly empty or unused. It begins full-blown rather than growing with the information store. If it doesn't begin full-blown, then it leaves the same holes as the current system, where there are specifics without their parent containers.
Beginning with broad categories ensures that all incoming information fits somewhere recognizable as related to that information. It also allows for more specific categories to be added within those broad ones, as growth dictates, and makes it simpler to shuffle the more specific information from the broader, parent category into the more specific, child category.
Example: If suddenly super-poly-ultra-squirt-a-frame becomes all the rage and 5,000 people a day start posting questions about how to get the hump of their nearly finished 32 replica frame past the rollers in the inkjet, and how many cartridges does it take for a '34 Duesenberg SJ replica, there might need to be a 220.127.116.11. Structure - Squirt-A-Frame subcategory made. At least most of the sudden onslaught would land within the 1.1.1. Structure - Frame or Unit - Fuel storage parent forum, before the subcategory was made, anyway.
(The numbers are there only to outline the structure and see where things fit. They are not intended as part of the name of a forum).
Here's another alternative...
Good old Henry (Ford) had the best idea for categorizing vehicle components and replacement parts.
All of the Ford "basic part numbers" reflect the category in which they belong.
Chassis Components
1000 - Wheels & Tires
2000 - Brakes
3000 - Steering
4000 - Driveshafts / Differentials
5000 - Frame / Spring / Suspension / Exhaust
6000 - Engine
7000 - Transmission
8000 - Cooling System
9000 - Fuel System
10000 - Charging System / Guages
11000 - Starting System
12000 - Ignition System
13000 - Lamps / Directional Signals
14000 - Wiring
15000 - More lamps / clocks
16000 - Fenders / rad supports
17000 - mirrors / speedometers
18000 - Heating system
19000 - Air Conditioning / Accessories
Body / Sheet Metal Components
(prefixed by a 2-digit body code .. ie. 54 = 4 door sedan, 66 = 2 dr sedan, 61 = 3 door hatchback etc...)
00000 - Dash / floor pans
10000 - Rocker panels
20000 - Door & Quarter
30000 - Windshield
40000 - Luggage compartment / tailgate / liftgate
50000 - Roof
I think that was it...
So ... on ALL models (well at least originally ... before FWD, 4x4, AWD)
1190 was a front wheel seal (2WD)
1102 was a brake rotor
3049 was a ball joint
4602 was a driveshaft
5310 was a coil spring
9350 was a fuel pump
See how each "basic number" fits within it's respective component group?
Related parts are arranged in a dealer inventory by the basic number (for the most part anyway) so if you knew the component group, you could run to the shelf to determine a basic number. Mechanics like the concept as well when they get on one of their "seek and destroy" missions.
I know it might be hard for you Chevy guys to handle ... using a Ford system ... but I think it's a workable solution.
(After all, It's worked for Ford for the last 100 years or so.)
Exactly, Henry! It just took me bucket loads more words to say the same thing.
Wish I had thought of the street signs analogy of helrazr3. We have signs on side streets without signs on the main throughways.
Another way of looking at it: We have a coffee can labeled Screws - Bolts - Nuts and two others labeled Miscellaneous. Somebody comes in with a nail and wonders where to put it. If we had a shelf labeled Fasteners, holding the first coffee can, at least the nail would end up in the same area as the screws, bolts and nuts.
New member comes in, sees "Introduce Yourself", that's no problem. He comes in wanting to know how to identify an engine block, that's no problem. If he comes in wanting to know if he should replace the rotted frame in his 1902 Little, there's a problem, so he has to choose among "Hotrodding Basics", "General Rodding Tech", "Suspension - Brakes - Steering", or "Site Suggestions and Help".
Clearly labeling the major streets and the side streets coming from them should help anyone find their way easier. We're not talking about idiots. Anyone tackling work on a car will be able to figure out if the part causing troubles is (a) something that makes it go, stop, steer, or hang together, or (b) something on the body, or (c) something inside the body, or (d) garage or tool, or (e) none of the above. Help 'em find the right 'block' of the city and they can hunt up the right building from there.
|Henry Highrise
|wow, that had a lot of thought put into it. good work grouch. i would agree that things could be reorganized a bit . i also think its important to keep adusting and tweaking things as the site grows. the other side of that is making it a bit to complicated for new users to navigate. you need lots of street signs so people use the right roads.
Aha! An opening for debate!
1. hotrodders.com
2. miscellaneous
That first box is a big one, so we need smaller boxes in it to break it down.
My basic argument is that we have subcategories defined without the major categories to which they logically belong. Suspension - Brakes - Steering is one glaring example. Those are 3 subcategories of a chassis, but there is no chassis. On the other hand, we have 2 miscellaneous areas.
Thanks, Henry Highrise and cboy.
No smoke? No flames? I must've done something wrong.
I left out one that I've seen suggested several times: Health - Safety. It could be argued that such discussions are specific to one of the other categories, instead of separable.
The expansion and accumulation of information that almost fits existing categories is what worries me. You can find threads that cover the same topic but which are posted in different fora. Jon's Knowledge Base project attempts to index the growing mass of information, but it shouldn't have required as much work as it apparently took.
Given a basic breakdown of:
1.1. Chassis - Running Gear (things which make it an automobile; things that make it go, stop, steer and carry a payload)
1.2. Body (the payload carrier; things beyond its possible functions as a chassis)
1.3. Electrical (the auxilliary power system; things that handle electrical power that is not used to make it go)
1.4. Garage - Tools (the hotrodder's lair and magic wands)
1.5. Hotrodding Basics - General - Miscellaneous (things that don't fit the above)
It becomes easier to decide where a given discussion should be placed. Making that decision easier also results in better self-sorting. When someone has a question, especially one with some frustration already built up, it should be as apparent as possible where that question should be asked. Ambiguity leads to more frustration, more work for mods, more work to find answers, more disorganization (more miscellaneous).
Using those basic categories, it becomes easier to accommodate expansion. For example, if the Engine discussions start piling up, it might be subdivided like:
1.1.4. Engine
126.96.36.199. Engine - Mechanical
22.214.171.124. Engine - Electrical
22.214.171.124. Engine - Fuel - Intake - Exhaust
188.8.131.52. Engine - Cooling
Likewise for, say, Body:
1.2.1. Body - Exterior
22.214.171.124. Body - Exterior - Fabrication
220.127.116.11. Body - Exterior - Repair
22.214.171.124. Body - Exterior - Prep and Paint
Starting with broad categories that are chosen to match the major functions and component groups of an automobile, and then subdividing those, helps avoid large organizational changes as the information accumulates.
Reorganizing due to growth becomes easier because the overflow that necessitates the reorganizing would already be contained in the proper major subdivision.
If hotrodding evolves to mostly unit body vehicles, under the present structure of hotrodders.com, you could end up with thousands of threads about the structural aspects of the body mixed in with thousands of threads about painting, all in Body - Exterior. With the structure outlined above, those structural threads would already be migrating and accumulating in 1.1.1. Structure - Frame or Unit - Fuel storage.
Consider a growth in alternative power hotrodding. If somebody develops a battery today that stores the equivalent energy of 10 gallons of gasoline in the same or even double the weight, you can bet some hotrodder is going to make use of it. In the present organization structure, would discussions of mounting that battery go under Electrical? Doesn't really make sense, but that's where those would probably land. Using the suggested organization, discussions about the mounting of the new super battery would go under 1.1. Chassis - Running Gear, specifically 1.1.1. Structure - Frame or Unit - Fuel storage.
You can't really anticipate where the hobby might be taken by hotrodders, but you can bet that every vehicle that every hotrodder tinkers with and mutates will have to go, stop, steer and carry something. You can also bet that hotrodders will continue to need tools and a place to work their madness.
having trouble sleeping, eh Grouch?
Ok i can simplify this so that even I can understand....
Make one big category. call it hotrodders.com.
That way you just post everything in one category, and avoid those mind numbing choices. There are already too many choices in life...(coffee or coca cola for breakfast?...did I have the label on my underwear on the inside or outside yesterday?..which hand do I hold the pencil with?..axe or torch? .Milling machine or file....)
It will be easy for me. It'll be organized just like my shop.
Oh but keep the dump seperate..that way all my posts would be in one place.
<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nice job Grouch
I think if the suspension forum had frame added or we added a frame/ structural engineering forum for all of those fabrication questions it would be good. ( to me 'frame" is the bare structure and "chassis" is the complete assembly of suspension and steering parts.
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text:
Rochester making plans for annual October Festival
By JOHN QUINN
Union Leader Correspondent | September 19. 2013 9:17PM
Preparations are underway for the fifth annual event, which is scheduled for Oct. 12 from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. throughout the downtown area — rain or shine.
As before, the festival — which is underwritten by Service Credit Union — will be held on Hanson Street, in Central Square and at Factory Court, which are all within walking distance of each other and nearby municipal parking.
"Rochester has its own identity," Humphrey said, adding these events bring cultural value to the community.
Humphrey said this is evident from the ticket sales at the historic Rochester Opera House, which welcomes visitors from around New England.
"This family fun event offers food, fun, games, demonstrations and an interactive barnyard petting zoo — sponsored by Holy Rosary Credit Union," according to the release.
"The winner receives a medal, bragging rights and $25 cash prize," Provost said.
Tickets, which cost $2 each or six for $10, can be purchased from any Main Street volunteer, board member or through the Rochester Main Street Office.
* e-Edition subscription required

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Screw 2: Cut To The Chase, Scene #03
- : 01/01/2007 |
- : 20:01 min |
- : 1653
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Owen Hawk is perched on a motorcycle, daydreaming of riding down the streets of San Francisco like the tough guys he's always fantasized about shagging. Problem is he's on Diego De La Hoya's bike who's none to happy to find him on his property. Diego immediately thrusts the stud onto his knees to suck his juicy Puerto Rican dick. Owen can't help but gag on the brown meat stuffed into his mouth (while Diego orders him around in the hottest Spanglish that'll have you in a full-on fever!) The sight of Owen's pretty 8 1/2 incher soon has Diego on his knees returning the favor. Next Diego bends the boy over his bike, dick splayed backwards, and inspects the big round butt he's about to use. His dick slams right in the boy's ass, teaching Hawk a lesson about staying off other people's property. Diego decides Owen's big stiff prick would best be used up his own butt and he soon spins around to take it. Hawk looks sexy as fuck stuffing our beefy Latin stud with his long straight pole. After the two fuck each other to exhaustion, Owen sticks a huge dildo to the floor, mounts it and waits to be showered with Diego's huge load. After Owen cums, the greedy boy scrapes the cum off the floor and sticks it into his filthy mouth
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text:
'The natives of Roberval, 270 miles north of Montreal, have turned the exhibition game into the toughest ticket in the league. Only 1,200 fans can fit in Benoit Levesque Arena, so those left out will watch on a big screen outside. Buffalonians can watch the game live at 7 tonight on the NHL Network.'
Tiny town earns host's role
September 23, 2008 Submitted by
Via: Buffalo News


text:
Another one right across the valley from you, buddy. You can probably hear me plinking from your house. I prefer to think all the woodchucks are outside being productive...while all the Texans are inside spodding on the Internet.
Gunner B
I'm here but not for long - I hate VT...
So many vt folks carry and shoot you'd think ther'd be more of us here donchaknow.
Permit we don't need no stinkin permit


text:
Canon U.S.A., Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Inc.
Shares of Canon Inc. are listed at the following stock exchanges: Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Fukuoka, Sapporo and New York.
Detailed information on Canon Inc.'s results and Investor Relations activities can be found on the global investor relations website: http://www.canon.com/ir
|Contact Us
|Canon U.S.A., Inc.
|Investor Relations
|One Canon Park
|Melville, NY 11747
|Transfer Agent
|JP Morgan
|Phone Number: (800) 997-8970
© 2017 Canon U.S.A., Inc. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


text:
RI Navy kickbacks exec asks to delay sentencing
PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — A former executive who pleaded guilty to playing a part in a kickback scheme that cost the U.S. Navy $18 million has asked to delay her sentencing for two weeks so she can gather more letters of support.
A lawyer for Mary O'Rourke filed the request with U.S. District Judge Mary Lisi on Monday. O'Rourke pleaded guilty to theft of government property and is scheduled to be sentenced next week along with her boyfriend, Ralph M. Mariano.
O'Rourke was an executive at Georgia-based Advanced Solutions for Tomorrow, which had an office in Middletown and has since gone out of business. Mariano was a civilian employee of the Navy and has acknowledged he authorized payments to ASFT and others in exchange for kickbacks.
Six people have pleaded guilty in the case, but none have been sentenced.
Shutterstock/Stephen B. Goodwin


text:
Graham Readfearn | February 29, 2012
By Graham Readfearn • Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 15:59
A LOW-PROFILE funding organisation acting as a middleman for wealthy conservative businesspeople has been quietly backing climate denial campaigns across the US.
The Virginia-based Donors Capital Fund and its partner organisation Donors Trust has been giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to groups blocking attempts to limit greenhouse gas pollution and undermining climate science.
Yet the structure of the funds allows the identities of donors and the existence of any vested interests to remain hidden from public view.
Step aside the fakery of "hide the decline". Say hello to "hide the deniers".
During the 2009 unlawful release of the private emails of climate scientists, the phrase "hide the decline" became a catch cry for the denial industry as it tried to convince the world that global warming was some kind of hoax.
DCF has close ties to another, higher profile funding group, Philanthropy Roundtable.
Adam Meyerson is DCF's chairman and also the president of Philanthropy Roundtable. DCF's vice-chairman, Kimberly O. Dennis, is a Philanthropy Roundtable board member as well as being the chairman of Donors Trust.
DCF shares an address with Donors Trust and several board members and staff. Whitney Ball is the president of DCF and Donors Trust.
Steven Hayward, a DCF board member, is also a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. In 2006, it emerged that Hayward had written to an astrophysics professor offering $10,000 for a review of an IPCC report to "explore the limitations of climate model outputs".
Earlier this week, Hayward wrote in detail about the Heartland issue, not mentioning his role on the board of DCF, which has given Heartland more than $6million in recent years.
In Heartland's most recent "Quarterly Performance Report" the institute bragged it had logged "63,418 contacts with legislators" on climate change and environmental policy issues".
In the report, senior fellow James M. Taylor, a Forbes blogger, was still claiming the 2009 "Climategate" emails showed scientists committing "fraud and misconduct" more than a year after numerous independent inquiries into the allegations found the opposite.
Not so much a case of "hide the decline" as a case of "hide the facts", "hide the science" and "hide the deniers".
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
kar98k doesn't know what "Science" and "Scientist" means
kar98k I asked for a "scientist":
"Please tell me one scientist that you think is correct in his science that there is no problem with accumulating green house gases"
Hulme is not a scientist he is a geographer and studied geography. Last time I looked Geography is classified as "social science". It seems that his big beef with IPCC and climate scientists is that they do not include the opinions of social scientists in their reports and studies. Oh dear, poor soul, he has missed out on the "gravy train". After reading about Hulme I can see why. His opinion, for what it is worth, is that yes the climate scientists are right but we can do nothing about it so let's live with it. Besides, I'm pi$$ed off that I wasn't allowed on the "gravy train".
Too bad we don't have a parallel planet where you can follow the "Pied Piper of Tyndall" to your own planet where you can put out all the CO2 you want, do nothing about it and sit around telling each other about those nasty climate scientists who are scaring everyone with their "lies" about changing climates.
I don't think that planet or at least the people living on it would be very comfortable in 100 or so years.
So kar98k please pay attention to the question and answer the one I asked and not the one that you think you have a better answer for.
Oh, wow, Ian
I had no idea a PROFESSOR OF CLIMATE CHANGE at University of East Anglia disqualifies him as a climate scientist. I'm so sorry (note sarcasm). Hulme worked for 12 years at the Climate Research Unit, founded the Tyndall Centre (which environmentalists revered while he was running it, and he's the aforementioned professor on climate change; now you say he's not a climate scientist.
EPIC FAIL, Herr Forrester.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
Lots of people worked at the CRU
Stop showing your ignorance. Lots of people worked at the CRU but were not climate scientists. Do you not think that they had janitors, secretaries, electricians etc? Do you think that they had to be "climate scientists" to get the job? As I said previously Hulme is a "social scientist", if you don't know the difference then stop wasting our time.
In my view, the big difference is that scientists deal in facts whereas social scientists deal in opinions.
Why do you keep on wasting everyone's time with your nonsense? I get a good laugh when you show everyone that you don't even know what a scientist is. ROTFLMAO
The Tyndall Centre is not a climate science institution but a group of mostly social scientists and civil engineers. I'm sure most of them do good work in that area but it is not "climate science".
And stop the insulting comments. I do not appreciate fools who keep showing their ignorance. It is you who have failed both by showing your ignorance and invoking Godwin's law
On the contrary, Ian
The "ignorant" one acting like a "fool" here is YOU; as I'm about to demonstrate. You say lots of people worked at the CLIMATE RESEARCH UNIT but weren't scientists? What would a senior researcher at CRU research? Hmm? For 12 years, Dr. Hulme was just that-a senior researcher at CRU. As for The Tyndall Centre for CLIMATE RESEARCH, I wonder what they researched there while he was director for 7 years? And he's been Professor of CLIMATE CHANGE at UEA's Environmental Sciences school since. 24 years at University of East Anglia studying climate, and you say he's not a climate scientist?
As for the "insulting" remarks, I say you have some nerve. You call me "idiot," "ignorant," "fool," and now that it's clear to anyone with the sense nature gave spider fur who's being "ignorant," you complain about "insults."
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
kara98k shows more stupidity
It appears that in addition to not knowing the difference between scientists and social scientists he does not understand what "scientific research" is. kara98k, for your information social scientists can do "research" in fact Hulme did lots while he was at CRU and Tyndall. What is is not though was "scientific research", it was "social science research" I can assure you that there is a big difference.
Ever heard of laboratories, test tubes, Bunsen burners, spectrophotometers etc? They are used in "scientific research". Pencil and paper and access to a library is about all you need to do "social science research" Note: I am not belittling social science, only explaining that it is completely different to physical science.
My remarks about your character are honest statements based on your attitude to science, scientists and me. Your insulting remark just shows more of your dishonesty and ignorance. I am not German so your remark was insulting because of the connotations you made. Godwin is not your friend.
Typical troll behaviour, I'm afraid.
So to hopefully conclude this argument, Hulme is not a climate scientist doing climate science but is a social scientist researching possible effects, from a social perspective, from climate change induced by anthropogenic forcings.
Oh, I see how you work, Ian
You should be permitted to sling all the offensive personal slurs, insults, and pejoratives you want, so long as they're directed at someone you label a "denier." You allow yourself to rationalize this offensive behavior as a "character assessment." Who gets to decide if that label's correct? In your mind, you do; essentially making yourself prosecutor, judge, jury, and jailer. I don't know about anybody else out here, but that's the very mark of arrogance.
One such example is your attempt to invoke "Godwin's law." In your last post, you claim that it's an insult that I adressed you as "Herr Forrester," because you aren't German. Something your arrogant mind didn't consider: I am. Both my parents were born and raised in Germany, and I was born in Kiel, raised there until I was 8. Herr is the German word for "Mr." So, obviously, this whole conversation is all about you, huh.
The fact that this is cyberspace where you don't know or even see who you're talking to isn't a license to mistreat others, nor does their presence grant you the right to misjudge their character.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
My last comment to the right wing arrogant crank
You are the arrogant one. You admit that you know very little about science yet you come on this blog and slur and smear the honest scientists but support the dishonest and incompetent ones. How do you manage that? You must get your information from denier sites since you are completely unable to make such distinctions on your own.
You put out a lot of nonsense which shows you are wrong but you continue to show us that you know nothing. That is my definition of ignorance and stupidity. You have more than your share of both of these character deficiencies. So don't go crying on about how you were mistreated. You have only yourself to blame, that is if you have the intelligence to see that.
And you lied about why you called me "Herr". You are a despicable person. You may be German but you were insulting me and comparing me to a nasty person in your country's past.
Good bye.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
"Makes me think the "deniers" have a case."
If calling a denier a denier makes you think the deniers have a case then you have no backbone at all. What is wrong with using a word which accurately describes their behaviour?
It is not as if we are lying when we call then deniers. Lots of people deny things as I pointed out to you earlier in this thread. The fact that deniers don't like being called deniers is because it shows how dishonest they are since you cannot deny the science if you are being honest. Thus they know that denialism is synonymous with dishonesty. That is why they dislike the word. I really like the word since it lets people know their motives and how dis-honest they are.
The two sides which you promote are honest science and dishonest rubbish. The fact that you even want me to acknowledge that shows that you are a denier. No honest person would want to have dishonesty brought out.
Your paper by Loehle & Scafetta is easily rebutted by the paper by Foster and Rahmstorf 2011 Environ. Res. Lett. 6 (http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044022) and discussed here:
Try harder next time. At least deniers seem to stick together, I thought it would be too much of a task for you to find a scientist who has a respectable reputation in climate science. You would do a lot better staying away from denier sites and spend your time actually reading texts and papers in the scientific literature (assuming that you do want to understand climate science and what we are doing to the climate). Then you would be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. You seem to be addicted to chaff.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
Why do you lie kar98k?
kar98k lied when he said:
"As for 'defending Willie Soon', when did I ever mention his name, let alone defend him? I think you need to chillax, Ian."
Here is a quote of what you said in this very thread:
"All my comments here, as I'm new to desmogblog, are an independent's viewpoint. The first point is like to raise here concerns the Greenpeace investigation into Dr. Willie Soon's funding. Is there any reason I should trust an extremist org like Greenpeace to "investigate" a scientist with views that are opposite their own? More to the point, can I trust their opinion of the facts culled from that investigation?"
How many more lies is he telling? Quite a few is my guess. Looks like he is in a worse category of troll than "concern troll". The reason Soon is not a repected climate scientist is not because his "views are opposite" but because he is guilty of scientific malfeasance on a grand scale. That is what your "other side" consists of, dishonest scientists like Soon et al.
That's what you call defending
Willie Soon, is it? What, nobody's permitted to question an investigation from a source who's reliability on such matters is questionable, whose history is notable only for actions of questionable legality and ethics, and (if reports are accurate) in this case the accusation may well be hypocritical.
Questioning the veracity of such an organization's investigation hardly constitutes a "defense" of the subject of that investigation. As for my alleged "lie," I apologize. I forgot I'd even mentioned Soon, especially since most who've answered me seem to take some offense at the notion that most people I know consider Greenpeace an extremist organization. I, nor most people I know, would never contemplate breaking into a research facility to uproot a wheat crop, for instance. If we object to genetically engineered food, we won't buy it. Simple enough.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
More lies from kar98k
karr98k lies again:
"If we object to genetically engineered food, we won't buy it. Simple enough."
That is a lie since genetically modified food is not labeled. How would you know what contained it and what didn't? You are just another right wing crank.
That's a smokescreen
You missed the entire point. Rational, sane people don't go breaking into a research facility to destroy a wheat crop. Greenpeace not only so disrespects the property of others, they disrespect other people's right to choose, and brazenly film themselves committing such a crime.
Requesting product labeling isn't a smoke screen.
…and I'm not Greenpeace. I am also quite sane.
Here's your minor warming in very simple terms;
The arctic is melting, and we are looking at scrapping ice breakers as well as using the arctic as a containership shipping lane.
.5 degrees in world average = 5 degrees in the artic. 2 degrees hotter (which is what we've already committed to) means the arctic is going to be 20 degrees hotter.
The melting on Greenland is now accelerating. My children will not be able to enjoy the beaches of Hawaii by the time they are old.
Wrong-o, it is
It's a smokescreen because you failed to adress the actual point. You (among others) object to me referring to Greenpeace as "extremist;" as most ordinary, law-abiding persons do. Rational, sane people don't behave the way Greenpeace has done. If, as you say, labels don't reflect genetically modified foods, rational, sane people lobby industry and governments to make it so. They don't break down security fencing to destroy a wheat crop. They don't deface supermarkets. They don't break into a power plant to "demonstrate how weak security is." They don't break into gas stations to shut down its operation to protest an oil spill (sane people just don't patronize that gas station anymore).
Get the point? Extremists disrespect property and the right of others to choose, not rational people. Greenpeace respects neither property nor anyone's right to choose. They are extremists.
"You (among others) object to
"You (among others) object to me referring to Greenpeace as "extremist;" as most ordinary, law-abiding persons do."
No, you said two intelligence agencies described them as 'extremist'. Knowing denier BS when I see it, I asked you for proof. You couldn't provide it. I ask you again, please provide evidence.
"Rational, sane people don't behave the way Greenpeace has done……..sane people lobby industry and governments to make it so. They don't break down security fencing to destroy a wheat crop. They don't deface supermarkets. They don't break into a power plant to "demonstrate how weak security is." They don't break into gas stations to shut down its operation to protest an oil spill (sane people just don't patronize that gas station anymore)."
Strange how a self described fence sitter only has issues with left leaning organisations. Yet you have no problem with people like the Koch trading with Iran while US sanctions were in place. Being convicted of stealing oil from Indian reserves. Falsifying and concealing Benzine venting into the atmosphere. Lax practices that caused the deaths of two teenagers who just happened to be driving by one of their leaks and were incinerated. Bribes. Several cases of massive environmental damage that they tried to get away with.
I'm just touching the surface there & that's just one company. Lets not get started on Exxon.
"Get the point? Extremists disrespect property and the right of others to choose, not rational people."
By your own definition, the Koch's and Exxon are extremists.
My earlier assumption of you is playing out almost to the letter.
"By your own definition...
…the Koch's and Exxon are extremists." Exactly! Finally, somebody noticed!
"the Koch's and Exxon are
"the Koch's and Exxon are extremists." Exactly! Finally, somebody noticed!"
Well, the Koch's are not much liked around these circles I must admit. But despite their attempts to subvert democracy, failure to abide by rules, environmental damage, campaigns of misinformation on an unwitting public, sacking of whistleblowers, stealing, bribing etc etc. I don't think I have ever heard any AGW realist call them an extremist organisation.
I think people too readily use those type of words, when really, it's just hyperbole.
Basically true, Phil
In the day-to-day operations, they aren't "extremists," however, in their political activities (like those you described above) I would use the term. It might surprise you to know I consider most politicians extremists. If you apply my definition, it's not much of a stretch, is it?
Take care, and have a nice day.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
More right wing crankery from kar98k
kar98k proudly boasts:
"they disrespect other people's right to choose"
You have it all backwards kar98k. I'm not surprised that you are trying to support that other group of multi-national conglomerates who have no respect for our health or well being. It is companies like Monsanto that are "disrespecting other peoples' right to choose" when they refuse to allow distributors to label their products when they contain genetically modified components.
In fact Monsanto even sued a dairy for saying on their labels that their milk was free of rBGH:
So kar98k has finally exposed himself to what he really is, a right wing supporter of selfish and arrogant companies who have no respect for either their customers or everyone else living on this planet. Great company you keep kar98k, I hope they are paying you well for your selfish support of their policies.
How about a brawl?
You field your 4, versus our 10,000 OK? (And your dog scientist isn't allowed to bring her BoerHounds, OK. The farmers used to use those to take down Lions.)
Saying you got a couple of quacks is hardly an accomplishment. You need more than singular dissenting opinions.
Now before you go and get all defensive… I challenge you to list ALL the scientists who are in your camp.
It won't take you very long.
I also suggest that you double check what their educations are.
Look up what they have published in the field. Lintzen and co. managed to prop up 12 guys who hadn't done any work in 30 years for their WSJ article. Presumably they were scared by Michael Crichton's book more than anything.
If they pass that test… check their pay stubs.
The numbers in opposition are vanishingly small.
Sorry, Oil man
I never bother with brawls. I'd just bring my GSD's with me. That, and the weapon that my handle's derived from…
You were just kidding about a brawl, I hope.
I was kidding about the brawl but not the numbers, your 4 to our 10,000.
Seriously… add them up. You got nothing.
Ian Forrester replied on Permalink
Here is Trenberth's response to Landsea
Here is Trenberth's response to Landsea's criticism. As you can see the Press got it wrong as usual. Why do you never go back to the originals but quote denier web sites or stuff in the popular press? Science is not carried out in either of these fora.


text:
U.S. State Highpoints > Mount Greylock > Climber's Log
Mount Greylock Climber's Log
[ Sign the Climber's Log ]
|State HP#10
Date Climbed: Nov 27, 2011
|Hiked up via the Bernard Farm trail to the AT to the summit. A little bit of ice near the top, but nothing too serious. Saw the wreckage of a plane wreck along the BF trail, very interesting!
|Posted Nov 28, 2011 8:40 pm
|Columbus Day Weekend
Date Climbed: Oct 9, 2011
|This trip was a challenge for my level of ability since we had to carry everything we needed 2 miles to the campsite, The next morning we began our hike via Sperry Rd. to the Hopper Trail which then connected to the Appalachian Trail and then to the summit. Weather was great and only a slight haze at the top, Mt. Monadnock was a great presence on the horizon.
|Posted Oct 10, 2011 8:19 pm
|Coolest HP Name
Date Climbed: Jul 31, 2005
|Best burger on top of a high point.
|Posted Aug 21, 2011 5:44 pm
Date Climbed: May 1, 1995
|Drove up, spent the night at the AMC lodge.
|Posted Aug 10, 2011 5:26 pm
Date Climbed: Jun 24, 2011
|Is it cheating to drive to the highest point of the state? :) I would like to say the view was beautiful, but it was really foggy, which has it's own kind of beauty I guess.
|Posted Aug 9, 2011 8:07 am
|Great hike through the AT
Date Climbed: Jul 30, 2011
|5 hours of fun
|Posted Jul 31, 2011 5:31 pm
Date Climbed: Jul 22, 2011
|Great views, cool tower. Saw a few thru hikers on the AT.
|Posted Jul 28, 2011 8:06 pm
Date Climbed: Sep 17, 2010
|Via thunderbolt trail
|Posted Jul 24, 2011 12:53 am
|Pouring Rain
Date Climbed: Jul 2, 2009
|Bob, Broc, Domino and I stood on top in the pouring rain.
|Posted Jun 1, 2011 9:12 pm
|3rd Highpoint!
Date Climbed: May 27, 2011
|My brother and I had a really nice hike up to the summit and the view from the top was beautiful. This was the third highpoint for my brother and I.
|Posted May 28, 2011 9:36 am
|2nd highpoint
Date Climbed: May 15, 2004
|I climbed this Mountain with a bunch of friends that I went to Iraq with when we all made it home safely. I have since gone back and snow shoed up Thunderbolt, which was very tough!! It is a beautiful area with a restaurant located on top!!
|Posted May 8, 2011 6:19 pm
|Iron Hiker
|Just a drive up, and a hike down :-p
Date Climbed: Jul 15, 1998
|The only highpoint I've hiked down from. Did this in pouring rain with the summer camp I was with for 2 weeks. We descended the AT from the summit to Money Brook Trail into the Hopper, then took the Hopper Trail back up to the campground.
|Posted Mar 29, 2011 8:59 pm
Date Climbed: Mar 11, 2011
|Sled Mountaineering!
We camped at the base of thunderbolt, climbed up in the morning and sledded down!
Sledding not recommended unless you've got em screwed on tight!
|Posted Mar 16, 2011 8:22 pm
|Highly Civilized
Date Climbed: Jul 15, 2006
|I've done this twice, being from MA. Once in winter with no one on top and a very frigid rain, and once at the start of the Long Trail with great crowds.
|Posted Jan 28, 2011 1:21 am
|Nice view
Date Climbed: Sep 5, 1994
|As I started to know off high points in the NE, this one surprised me. It didn't have the throngs of people, and the views were really nice as the foliage started to come it.
|Posted Dec 27, 2010 1:41 pm
|Up the Ski Slope
Date Climbed: Dec 17, 2010
|I had the Thunderbolt Trail all to myself. It was covered in just enough snow to make things slick but not enough to form secure steps. I had to bear crawl up the steep sections, and later descend them very carefully. The early morning sun had not burned the clouds off of the top, so I could not see far, but the summit was a winter wonderland. HP31
|Posted Dec 23, 2010 10:25 pm
|First High Point
Date Climbed: Jun 3, 1962
|My first Hi-point. Drove to the top with my parents when I was about 6 years old.
|Posted Dec 7, 2010 11:16 am
|That's one way to 'build character'
Date Climbed: Oct 9, 2010
|Hiking with 2 of my sons and a friend... we hiked S from North Adams, but took the trail up over Mt Prospect... then down into Money Brook. Turned a 2400 ft climb into a 4000 ft day.. Ouch!
Got to summit at dusk.. no views... Drove back up the next AM to see the sights...
|Posted Dec 5, 2010 6:06 pm
|took the very well maintained trail and saw a porcupine that seemed to have gotten into recent skirmish because quills around butt were all gone
|Posted Dec 1, 2010 2:31 pm
|Dennis Poulin
|Drive Up
Date Climbed: Oct 14, 2010
|I drove up and enjoyed the views. Pretty area with fall colors.
|Posted Oct 22, 2010 4:34 pm


text:
Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by detteam, Jun 26, 2012.
Yep. JD is getting some help now, in many aspects throughout the organization.
This seems logical. Sometimes you need to clear the board in order to see what is in front of you. Flexibility means JD can maneuver, which is his greatest strength. Also, his rope has been shortened which I thing is good for everyone.
I hope so, starting to think that Gores is just too cheap. The pick is the big thing to lost as its only lottery protected for next year. By year 4 all restrictions are removed. Glad they are making trades again but we better start making the playoffs.
Nice thought Bill.............but will JD be so agressive..........I don't think so.............
Unless Gores decides to green light the amnesty-ing of Charles Garbage, we'll be stuck with that guy until the day his contract expires. I don't think that there is a GM in the league who hasn't read the Dominican Republic story so it's going to be tough to find a trade partner for him, - even if it's just for his expiring contract when the time comes. The way I see it, Charlie should have already played his last game as a Piston. He should never again bother to dress for a game. Given that fact, we might as well use the amnesty clause on him. If another team decides to pay him a million or two to be a part of their roster, that's money that we don't have to pay him. (I don't see this happening but at least there's a chance) What I DON'T want to see happen is for the Pistons to invest any more time in Charlie Villanueva. I don't want to read a story in September about Charlie's boxing training this summer and about how he showed up to camp in the best shape of his life. We need to cut bait and run. I don't want Arnie spending any time working with him; I don't even want the ball-boys rebounding for the guy at the Piston practice facility. ...let "the plank" walk!
Hypothetically speaking. If the Pistons bought out Corey Maggette and used the amnesty clause on Chuck-G, Gores would be shelling out a little over $25 million dollars next year for Rip Hamilton, Charlie Villanueva and Corey Maggette to NOT play in Detroit. Deeeeeeeeeetroooooiiiittttt Baaaaaaassssssskkkkkketbaaaaaaaaallllllll!
Hi there everybody. I continued to follow the pistons quietly and faithfully, however, I vowed not to post until Joe Dumars makes a trade with somebody. FINALLY, the curse has been broken. How long has it been 3 years, 5 years? Well truthfully, since my nephew is now in the NBA, I've been out and about, enjoying the NBA scene, boy what a ride. Loved it. Okay, well anyway, I am so happy that we have finally done something as far as acquiring players. I am sooo happy. Let's see where we will go from here. I have a feeling that big things will be happening on draft night. Hey there my peeps Roscoe, LA Dre, Lambs, Slippy, Dumars, Cloud, all the rest of my people and even Capp Spayce, lol. What's up Motown.
Big shout out to Alexa, what's up girl, have you been behaving? Of course not lol. Linwood what's the dealeo
Earnie the slow, are you still here? Mikhail are you still making it with the nice Pistons post?
Maggette will be the highest paid Piston next year. I think they may want to suit him up and see what he can do.
Hey Army..long time no hear.....who is your nephew again....I want to follow him too, since any family of yours is family to all of us..
Hey AG! Welcome back! lol, of course I have...
You know, just tightening things up and remembering where I come from. How you livin', Army Girl? Has the NBA lifestyle spoiled you?
Hey, hey. I've even been saying nice things about Joe D since the trade! Congrats on your nephew.....
Julyan Stone from UTEP, if I recall correctly - plays for the Nuggets now.
The more I ponder this trade, the more I feel like this was a precursor to another deal or two. Might be wishful thinking, but like AG, I am quite happy Joe's back to being aggressive in his trades after over 1000! days with no activity on that front. Trade season is in full swing as well, with teams looking to move up/into/down all across the board.
The more I think about it the more I just can't support trading away a prime 1st round pick just to dump a player with 2 years left on his contract. Great that he is finally making trades again but we may end up really regretting this one.
Has to be said. Amazing post. I really had a good laugh If we are still in the lottery mix next year I will be very surprised. The year after that? Shocked. Plus I think we are forgetting about the amount of money we are going to have to pay Monroe for him to stay
Separate names with a comma.


text:
Pop-Culture | Posted by Carolina G on 07/16/2014
Orphan Black: The Feminist Show You Need To Watch
While we are arguably currently experiencing the golden age of TV, thanks to shows like Orange is the New Black, Mad Men, The Game of Thrones, and House of Cards, we are also inundated by shameful, "reality" crap. With so many options, either for exciting, interesting television or mind-numbing selections best used as background noise (for me, it's "Say Yes to the Dress". Not even a little bit guilty), it's hard to know what's worth spending time on. I'm here to break it down for you.
Orphan Black is the show everyone should be watching. Not only does this show blow the Bechdel test out of the water, but it's thought-provoking, darkly funny, science-fiction-y in a way that non-geeks can enjoy, and it handles topics that our society cannot …


text:
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Press Release – 09.07.2013
Council of Europe's Anti-Racism Commission publishes new report on San Marino
Strasbourg, 09.07.2013 - The European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) today published its fourth report on San Marino. ECRI's Chair, Ms Eva Smith, said that, while there are positive developments, some issues of concern remain, including the legislation on citizenship and the absence of a comprehensive civil and administrative legal framework aimed at combating racial discrimination in all fields of life.
Society in San Marino continues to believe in dialogue and tolerance. The Criminal Code contains new provisions against discrimination based on race, ethnic origin, religion and sexual orientation. The system of residence and "stay permits" has been reviewed extending the maximum length of "stay permits" for foreign workers.
However, citizenship continues to be granted only by means of extraordinary laws, which each time may provide for different requirements to fulfil, procedure to follow and deadline to respect; the fact of compulsorily interrupting one month per year the work contract of private carers is particularly disadvantageous for this category of foreign workers; San Marino still lacks an independent body to combat racism, xenophobia, antisemitism and intolerance at national level.
In its report, ECRI has made a number of recommendations to the authorities, among which the following two require priority implementation and will be revisited by ECRI in two years' time:
The report is available here. It was prepared following ECRI's contact visit to San Marino in March 2012 [Press release of 13 March 2012] and takes account of developments up to 5 December 2012.
ECRI is a human rights body of the Council of Europe, composed of independent experts, which monitors problems of racism, xenophobia, antisemitism, intolerance and discrimination on grounds such as "race", ethnic/national origin, colour, citizenship, religion and language (racial discrimination); it prepares reports and issues recommendations to member States.
For more information on ECRI: www.coe.int/ecri
Press contact: Stefano Valenti, Tel: +33 (0)3 90 21 43 28, email@example.com


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The director supervises the professional and paraprofessional staff
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The Coordinator of Housing and Operations is a
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contributes to and coordinates the day-to-day operations of the
Residence Life program. These tasks include facilities and
maintenance issues within the residence halls, the housing
selection process, room change request and check-in and check-out
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Maxine Monroe, LMSW, Director of Residence firstname.lastname@example.com 845-569-3346
Amy Weit, Coordinator of Housing and email@example.com 845-569-3732
The Area Coordinator and Resident Directors are
professional, live-in staff members. Their primary responsibility
is the supervision of their designated residential area. These
staff members are responsible for overseeing the duties and
obligations of the resident assistants, programming and building
community within the residence director's area, and maintaining a
safe and healthy living environment for the residents. RDs conduct
personal and judicial meetings with the students whenever
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Winter Dry Skin
It's winter and that means cold dry air, heat on in the house and dry and chapped skin as a consequence. While I love the cold air, my skin gets dry and itchy an dI see the same thing in my patients of all ages. Many parents will ask, "why are my baby's cheeks and chin red and chapped", or, "what are these dry patches on my child's skin", and teens will say "my hand and feet are dry and cracked".
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Good winter skin care should is essential for everyone in the family.
I'm Dr. Sue with The Kid's Doctor helping parents take charge.
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Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
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Topic: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion? (Read 3865 times)
Jr. Member
Posts: 57
Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
April 11, 2011, 09:34:15 PM »
Hi y'all, it's been a while since I posted, and I have never come to the money board. If I am remembered by anyone here maybe it is for the long initial message I posted going into my divorce...
Well, I'm sober now since August of 2009 and divorced legally since November 2010. My X was thinking about this divorce for a long time before it was announced, and told me about it and her affair early in 2010. I was asked to move out as a trial, but I knew it was permanent. She humored me by going to counseling but that quickly went to where the woodbine twineth... Same old story.
I began thinking about money early on. I went about 4 months into the separation and then tried to set up a fromal separation agreement that would force the X to begin to consider getting a job. I did not fuss about leaving her the house - her moms home too as well as our 7 year old sons. The separation plan was refused, so I pulled from savings an amount of money that was a gift from my mother that she had been spending, and re-routed my paycheck to my own account.
I then offered through my attorney a temporary child support plan that was also refused. I believe this was done on the X's attorney's advice so that they could avoid any disadvantageous precedents being set. We continued to work on our parenting plan and support plans. In order to be sure I was not fought for 50% physical and legal custody as well as a waiver of maintainence, I agreed to a temporary monthly basic support payment of $340. This is based on my full time employement.
Our decree was eventually entered and the X has followed through with a re-fi on the property that cleared my name, and has paid my equity as agreed. I had been paying support based on our incomes for months before that was finalized. We also wrote the decree so that if we ever ran into any issues we could not agree to in our parenting plan, support issues or the final division of our junk, we could either of us request that the issue be brought to binding arbitration and the cost of that split 50/50. My X had 90 days to find a job, or show credible efforts on a job search.
We are now well past 90 days, and no job. However, my state allows potential income to be imputed, and the X stated in the decree she was able to work up to full time. Potential income can be imputed at 150% of federal minimum wage. If that were done, after plugging my income into the states calculator and factoring in my expenses for health and dental insurance for our son, that left me with an $11/month payment with percentages of 60/40 me to her for out of pocket medical and child care expenses.
I'm getting a lot of excuses as to why there is still no job. "I don't want to work just for child care money", "I don't have a degree", "the job market is just too tight", "I don't want our son in day care this summer", "I have been out of the job market for 10 years"... There's more. Well any way, I made her an offer. A 13 month step down plan that would gradually get her to the state suggested floor level of basic support and percentage obligations by April of 2012. I also offered her that as a lump sum with percentages to jump to the final level immediately. No go.
She feels she has a case that despite the fact that she has had almost 2 years to consider finding a job, she should have more time. Our basic support is based on her income of $300/month and percenatge responsibilities of 90/10 me to her. I guess I can't blame her - that's pretty sweet.
So now I have to put the wheels in motion to get arbitration set up. I have several good neutrals refered by my attorney, but she can and likely will strike them because they are my attorney's referrals. I might feel the same about hers. It's a long process. I have to send her a name and if she strikes it I have to send her another. It can be milked for a lot of stalling... And most of all, it saps my will.
If I was making 70K and she was making 35K I would owe her support and no questions asked. But I'm not even making 30K and she's still unemployed! Where is the fairness in that? I'm also still without a home of my own for me and my son - living with my mom. I have money saved for a down payment, but with the heavy child support obligation, I can't qualify for much of a loan. Banks are being careful these days. I want a home near my son because custody works best that way, but homes are pricey near there.
I don't want to waste good money that could build equity by renting. I work hard. I feel I have a certain right to chase my dreams for me and my son, and I feel that I should not have to carry the X while she leisurly searches for a job that satisfies all her preferences. I should mention, her mom is carrying her too.
I guess this brings me to the question in the title of my thread. Why is father to mother support such a foregone conclusion? I'm not the typical deadbeat non-custodial dad. I take my son every chance I get. I was not a violent husband. I got dragged into this against my will and could not stop it in a no-fault state. I made all the moves to try to do right by my son and I continue to do that. Why does the X feel she has to fight me on this? Our decree was built so we would adjust support payments. That was understood. Now we have this...
Thanks in advance for any responses!
Hero Member
Posts: 717
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #1 on:
April 12, 2011, 05:18:54 PM »
Quote from: andinthend on April 11, 2011, 09:34:15 PM
I guess this brings me to the question in the title of my thread. Why is father to mother support such a foregone conclusion?
Let me turn it around and ask you this: "Why is it a foregone conclusion that the mother will be the one to stay home and care for the child(ren) while the father continues his career?"
That, I believe, is the answer to your question. In a case of 50/50 custody, child support will be from the parent with higher income to the parent with lower income. If one parent is out of the job market for several years in order to care for the children, it is highly likely that this same parent will have the lower income.
If you back up in time to 10 years ago and make a different decision about who will give up their career to watch the children, I believe you will have a different outcome with the child support now.
Good luck with the arbitration.
Jr. Member
Posts: 57
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #2 on:
April 13, 2011, 06:24:38 PM »
Thanks InD. You always make me think. When we knew our son was coming I did not have a career - actually I did, but I knew it was not going to pay the bills and give us health insurance. I was in school too. I dropped
and hit the job market. Luckily, I found someting that I had been training/studying for, but like so many jobs it was sporadic. I had to kiss quite a few frogs before I finally landed at a company with the right amount of job experience behind me. That took 5 years. I was not making great money - I still don't - so many companies have taken advantage of the job desperation out there to put the fear of un-employement on their staff and keep wages low. But that's another forum...
I would have spoken to my X about getting back into the job market after our son turned 6 and went into all day school, but by that time the waters were troubled. I see your point... The mom is automatically tapped as the caregiver - the dad as the providor. I would have loved to stay home with our son, but my prospects for a job were better than hers. I have a BA and I had some technical training. My mom was putting the X through college too, but she stopped going. Now the fact that she has no degree is one of the things holding her back, and in light of what happened, Mom is no longer funding that.
For me, it was not a foregone conclusion that I would work outside the home and she inside it. We did what we had to do. We both worked hard. I was never the kind of husband who dissed the job of homemaker. We still work hard. I can only hope the X is putting as much work into her job search as I put into
my jobs. She is one health crisis for her mom away from being in serious trouble, and at that point even basic support payed at the level we are at is not going to make much difference if her mom gets sick.
I said "When we knew our son was coming..." Let me rephrase that for a moment. "When she knew the divorce was coming..." This is one of the things that still throws me. When I knew I was going to be a dad I stepped up and did what I had to do to be prepared. When the X knew she was going to be a single mom, I did not see and still do not see that same sense of "let's go". It's one thing to want to be single again, or to have an affair. The former is no longer about me and the latter never was. But it effects my son.
Personally, I think it's high time we see this idea of having and raising kids as fully the 50/50 proposition it has become in modern society. In my state there is legislation pending to address this idea. I am politically active. I always vote for the party that works
women's rights! My situation has got me trapped in outmoded ideals. I guess that's what bugs me. Yes I make more money, but I don't make a lot. And the X is not making anywhere near her potential. She's had plenty of time to deal with this, and now wants more. And even though our decree allows us to work this out on our own, she is stalling and forcing the issue into expensive arbitration. And the more I think and talk about it, the more the old ideal sneaks up and nibbles away at my resolve. That's the "sapping my will" part of this... It would be so much easier to just back away and let things stay the way they are. I feel like people look down their noses at me for seeing this issue the way I do - as if I did not want to support my own kid or something... I do support him. He's with me 45.1% of the time. More importantly to my way of thinking, I wanted to support him not only as a father but as a husband in an unbroken home. That got taken away from me.
I gotta stop. I could go on and on. The sense of injustice and injury just makes words flow on forever. I have accepted my part in the demise of the marriage. InD, your words and others words here at HEO helped me get there. It's just this continuing BS as I try to position myself to get into my own home for me and my son. To get to a new sense of normalcy that got blown out of the water by a divorce I did not want. I won't say a senseless divorce. The X had her reasons and like it or not I have to accept them. But this was what she wanted and she went ahead and did what she wanted for herself. And now, here's a great acronym: TANSTAAFL. Happy Googling!
Hero Member
Posts: 717
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #3 on:
April 14, 2011, 09:21:24 PM »
I totally agree she should get a job already and pay her share.
Posts: 3
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #4 on:
October 13, 2011, 08:14:30 PM »
Here is a different copy of your song. My future Ex has 2 Masters degree's and refuses to work more than 24 hours a week. Claim is it is to spend time with Son. He is in school all day. She spends her timeat the Beauty shop, with friends for lunch etc. Yet she wants 80% of my take home pay.
Hero Member
Posts: 717
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #5 on:
October 14, 2011, 07:49:49 PM »
Is your son really in school ALL day? Does his school really last more than 8 hours a day?
I ask because one of my continuing concerns has been to find suitable childcare to allow me to actually work full-time. In my experience, school lasts more like 6 hours a day. Unless you have a very short commute to work, that means that without childcare one can work about 5 hours per day, or 25 hours per week. That's about the amount you say your Ex is working.
80% of net pay is quite a lot, how did she get to that number? In my state the child support for 1 child maxes out at 25% of net income. (Net means we can subtract taxes, FICA and mandatory union dues.) I assume that includes some alimony payment as well?
Hero Member
Posts: 3239
Re: Child Support: Why is it a Foregone Conclusion?
Reply #6 on:
October 15, 2011, 02:35:04 AM »
I currently work about 32 hours a week and drop off and pick up my kids from school.....
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Do any of you guys have any experience with the CMMG 9mm M4-LE carbine? It looks like a lot of fun and I'm thinking of picking one up. I wanted to see what you thought.
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Do any of you guys have any experience with the CMMG 9mm M4-LE carbine? It looks like a lot of fun and I'm thinking of picking one up. I wanted to see what you thought.
i don't know bout cmmg 9mm, i have 1 of their uppers in 5.56 & works great.
my 9mm is a complete rock river set up, but with either cmmg or rock river i don't think u can go wrong.
i bought a complete upper from RR & a stripped lower & put what i wanted on it & this is the end result.
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it looks like i am going to buy a 9mm set up from JSE when the mag block comes in.
i would suspect the CMMG 9mm is a good unit. probably made from the same stuff that RR's 9mm are.
for me it is finding a deal in 9mm. sometimes spikes has some deals on 9mms--as well.
The best deal is always DIY, but even that segment is shrinking these days...
i have been playing around with the CMMG ramped 9mm bolt. it seems buttery smooth with my de-milled m16 hammer.
I picked up this Rock River Arms LAR-9, 9 MM AR-15 last year, and it's been a good performer. I like the fact the lower is machined from solid as a dedicated 9 MM lower, instead of pressing in a magwell block. The magazines lock in nice and tight. All magazines run well. Colt, C-Products, as well as Pro-Mag Polymer.


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