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problems with running my supercharged 351w
hi all , have been posting for a while as i have been finishing my 67 eleanor mustang . i have a 351w supercharged engine with a 6/71 weiand super charger , spec below .
high volume canton sump with windage tray and scraper
high volume oil pump
re-ground balanced crank
crane supercharger crank specs are -- fair to moderate ride,3pm 3.400-3.800 cruise rates at 8.5-1 max
degrees duration 226d @ .05"
degrees advertised 286d @ .05"
lobe seperation 112d
open and close intake 6d and exhaust 40d
gross lift .502"
hydraulic lifters on roller rockers
forged rods with hyperutectic pistons ( keith blacks)
edelbrock performer heads (need to find the spec but are good for a blower)
high volume engine run fuel pump
weiand 6/71 blower with 2x holley 600 vac secs carbs
what i need help on now is your opinions on what jets i should be using as a starting point in the primarys and secoundaries ?
currently i have .72 in the primary metering blocks and .78 in the secoundaries .
i have adjusted the timming to be 28d advanced with a idle of 22d advanced ,
the problem i am having is the carbs are spitting and when the engine finally runs its lumpy as hell ( i know its got a lumpy cam but its more so than it should be )
it will not idle and i have to keep the revs high ( say 1500 to 1800 ) but it is still rough at that rpm
do you have any idea on if my jets are too big ? it doesnt change when i adjust the air mix screws . they are currently out 1 turn .
i have a omex ecu and can adjust the timing very easily ,
i have got to 2 x boses ready for lambar sensors for when i get it dynoed and have also fitted 2x heat sensors in the exhaust manifold ,
but before that i just want to get it running on idle , also i cannot start it with the choke on . i have to have the flaps on the carbs open, which tells me it needs lots of air -which i have heard most supecharged engines and high lift cam engines never use the choke ??
am getting really frustrated as the car is 99% finished and i just want to get it on the road for 6 weeks or so to get some miles on it before the snow and ice come in december . then i can store it up till spring and adjust and fix any problems.
boo hoo:confused:
cheers shaun
Couple basics
The carbs need to be boost referenced. If there's no response from the idle mixture screws the primary throttle blades are open too far. Adding initial timing can help this just don't let the total timing get too high when you add initial. You might need to go richer from baseline if the carbs are stock. Baseline jetting can be found here.
To start it give it a couple pumps of the throttle (cold) and w/the throttle CLOSED, crank it up. Do not pump the throttle while cranking, do not partially open the throttle while cranking.
thanks for the info - much appreciated. i take your points and will apply them and double check the timing and also the primary throttle blades are closed .
thanks for the link to the carb spec sheets.
its hard for me to work out what jets i should have as they dont list it for a application but only for a specific carb model or part number.
so with a 351w with 30 thou over bore and this supercharger and with 2x 600 vac sec holleys. is there a close idea of what jets i should be using ?
i have seen around .62 for fronts and i have .72 but also have 2 carbs. so do i go lower as i have 2x carbs ? ie 2x lower than .62
very confusing and i want to get it somewhere there before going to dyno etc. i am sure with a bit of help and advise i should be able to get it to idle and run fairly normal. under small load before going on the road
also you say to lock the timing out etc. i havent got a dizzy. i have a ecu with a chart that i am able to enter actual timing numbers into. so for example what timing would you advise on the following rpm's ?
as i can put any figure against those rpm's but i can also go above the scale and add differnt figures for engine load. so ie 10% engine load could be 28 btdc but at the same rpm with engine load at 70% that wouldnt be the same figure ?
thanks shaun
What you'll want to do is to tee off at either of the carb inlets and run a small copper line back to the firewall, then up past the hood lip and to the cowl. On the cowl, temporarily mount a mechanical 0-15 psi liquid-filled fuel pressure gauge so that you can monitor the pressure going into the carbs by reading the gauge through the windshield as you drive. The better the quality of the gauge, the better the resolution you will get from it. The mounting system for the gauge won't have to be fancy unless you intend to make it permanent. You can make do with duct tape and tie wraps just for getting the pressure under control, then removing the line and gauge. Personally, I would want to keep it there permanently, but that's just me.
Cobalt327 offered up valuable information in his post #2. He may have gotten busy and can't come back to follow up right now. Here is the information from the Holley engineers about boost-referencing the carbs. He gave you a link, but I don't know if you saw it.
"QUESTION What is a Manifold Referenced Power Valve?
ANSWER Nothing will kill a blower or Nitrous engine quicker that a lean condition. You want plenty of fuel available for the engine to use .There is a thing you need to know about the power valves on a roots style blower engine. The power valve is installed to keep the engine from loading up and running rich at an idle. On a naturally-aspirated engine the engine vacuum at idle will hold the power valve closed. When you step on the gas the throttle plates open and the engine vacuum drops as you accelerate. When the vacuum drops below the rating of the power valve, it snaps open and richens up the main system. On a blower with the carb mounted above the rotors there is constant vacuum all the time even under wide open throttle. The power valve will never open and you will have a lean condition. To remedy this there is a modification you can have done that is called manifold referencing the power valve. You plug the vacuum feed hole in the baseplate for the power valve. Then you drill a hole in the side of the main body into the hollowed out vacuum chamber for the power valve. You then insert a vacuum nipple in this hole. You will run a vacuum line to the lower intake manifold from the new vacuum nipple. Now you will have vacuum on the power valve at an idle, and when you hit the gas as the boost builds, it will force the power valve to open and richen up the main system. This can be done by most carb modifiers or even yourself. We offer quite a few different size blower carbs with this already done. Consult you local Holley dealer or our Techline for the correct application."
Here's what Holley has to say about ignition timing.....
"Blower engines like timing advance. If the initial timing advance is not enough it will cause issues. Most blower engines will run between 12-20 degrees of intial timing and a total of 30-32 degrees. You do want a fairly fast timing curve. All the timing should be in by 2500-2800RPM.This is just a guideline. All engines are different. The other main cause is a lean running engine. Make sure the carbs are tuned correctly for the setup and that there are no vacuum leaks. Remember the blower moves a lot more air through the engine so it needs more fuel as well!"
I went through the Holley site and found this technical info as well. I highly recommend reading through it a few times.....
If this were my project and I had no means of finding out what jets to run in the carbs, I would run the ones that came in the carbs out of the box, then I'd be on top of reading the spark plugs if I had not equipped the exhaust system with oxygen sensor(s). But just let me say here that if I were you, I'd be on the phone to the Holley engineers and I'd have every last detail of your combination written down and in front of me before I made the call.....
Holley Performance Products
You have far too much money invested here to be making guesses.
One last thought regarding air supply. When I'm asked about air cleaner requirements, I generally suggest 14" diameter by 4" tall for a naturally-aspirated street motor up to 406 cubic inches and 6500 rpm's. That gives the motor 175 square inches of filter area and insures that the air cleaner will not be causing excessive vacuum at the carb inlet. The motor has to inhale easily through a well-designed intake system and the motor has to exhale easily via a well-designed exhaust system if it is to make good power.
Your motor, depending on boost, could easily pass 1.7 times the air that a naturally-aspirated motor of the same displacement would pass, so if it were my project, I'd opt for air cleaner element area of 1.7 times 175, or 300 square inches. There will be others who will disagree with this, but that's the way I'd do it. Actually, I'd look for a large oval element to enclose both carbs and make my own base and top lid. Maybe a diesel element of some kind.
thanks alot for this info. it really helps . i have booked it in with a company to have it rolling road as is, i havent got the time to try to fix something that they will know excatly what it is. they stock all the parts required to boost ref the carbes . i will take the notes with me to re-assure myself of what they are doing - will keep you posted and also post a video of when i get it running correctly. thanks again shaun
AFA giving you numbers to go w/each rpm, the numbers can be plotted on a graph. It might start out at about 18-20 degrees at idle, ramping linearly up to about 30-ish degrees at 2600-2800 rpm. This is w/the engine under a light load. Now, this is not written in stone. While these numbers should be safe (no detonation), still be on guard for detonation, and increase the amount and/or rate of advance slowly, evaluating each change as you go. I would strongly recommend you start a tuning log or journal to keep tabs on each change and the result. Don't rely on memory!
You need to compensate for engine load by pulling out advance as the load increases- just like a vacuum advance would. Hopefully your ignition is vacuum referenced so it can sense the engine load.
I looked around and found the graph below which can give you an idea of how engine load should affect timing. Remember, load is estimated by the amount of vacuum the engine makes at whatever rpm it is running.
The numbers on the graph are just a representation, your engine will likely have different amounts for how much vacuum you have at idle and at what vacuum the advance is all removed. Also the amount of advance change may need to be different than the ~2.5 degrees per in/Hg vacuum shown on the graph:
How much boost are you planning on using? What bolwer drive ratio?
What is the static compression ratio? Plan on using the very best pump gas available (or E85, but that's a whole 'nuther ball o' wax). You may need to blend race gas w/pump gas.
guys this is great thanks so much . i have this weekend to get all of these tips in place for next wednesday .
ok compression ration is 7.48 to1
i have a 14 psi max ratio on the pulleys . ( so weiand say )
i had to have a new pulley machined to fit over my rattler harmolnic balancer to save space so thats why the top one it larger than normal . bottom pulley is 45 and top is 51 teeth so its 0.88 so its being underdriven.
i can regulary get hold of 98 octane gas .
thanks t bird for the tech stuff . just what i needed. i have 6.5 power valves . so they must be getting pulled open all the time ?
so my .72 in the primary also seem to rich ?
will check my plug gaps . i have just been sold a cooler plug from champion and i havent gapped them . i wonder what they are factory set at ?
i have larger headers and also nice elderbrok victor heads . so feel confident on them . what about my air filters and scoop . i hope i am not restricting air flow ?
i have a ecu so will have to speak with them regarding boost and timing retard box and how that will work with it ?
what about colour for fuel squirt cams ? and colour of spring on sec's ?
also the vac sec's have 2x air tubes coming out of them and are fixed to the manifold "below " the supercharger !! is this where it should be plumbed in to read vacum to open the vac sec's?
thanks guys . good job !!
i only have the 2x pulleys . so do i restrict the rpm for now or get another pulley ? of just keep a eye on the boost guage as im not too sure if it will produce 14psi ?? with my pulley ratio
thanks on the springs .
the tubes come out of the sides of the vac sec's and join together with a t piece then go into the back of inlet manifold below the charger.
also the ball bearing in the vac sec have been removed to both carbs .
will look for the part number on the carbs.
now i get these numbers confused. i have converted the front one - is it 4150 to 4160 or 4160 to 4150 ? as i have added metering blocks and the rear carb has a metering block to the primary
ok - explain what you been by locked timing ? and 36 d btdc locked timing ? i havent a dizzy and have to do everything by the way of imputting figures on a graph, i can change it exactly so not a problem - but i think you mean locked timing in the way of when i get to say 3000 rpm the timing curve is flat and for eg 36d btdc remains flat along the higher rev range so a flat ign line for that rev range being 3000 and above ?
You have secondary metering blocks w/changeable jets, I take it?
If you are .88 underdriven, w/a 355 cid engine, and a blower displacement of 411, I'm getting about 11 psi. Still a good bit of boost for a street vehicle. With the static CR you have, that puts the effective compression ratio at about 13:1 at max boost, so you may well need to blend in race gas. Remember no detonation, else the pistons will fail.
Boost formula I used:
[(25.58) times (Blower Displacement) times (Blower Drive Ratio)] minus 14.7 divided by the engine displacement in cubic inches equals the theoretical boost in psi.
the primarys are .72 and sec's are .78 so do you think they should be changed to .80 ? as i have .80's
will check the number on the metering block
yes i thnk i have converted from 4150 to 4160 with the addito of the metering blocks.
to be honest i am saving up for fuel injection so if i can hold off i will use the current carb bodies and fit injectors into the inlet manifold. but probably a job when i have some money saved up
ok will connect them together so they are balanced. i read somewhere that there is a tube that goes from the carbs into the inlet manifold to measure vacum ?
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A complete, authoritative account of Shakespeare's life is lacking, and thus much supposition surrounds relatively few facts. It is commonly accepted that he was born in 1564, and it is known that he was baptised in Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire. The third of eight children, he was probably educated at the local grammar school. As the eldest son, Shakespeare ordinarily would have been apprenticed to his father's shop so that he could learn and eventually take over the business, but according to one account he was apprenticed to a butcher because of declines in his father's financial situation. According to another account, he became a schoolmaster. In 1582 Shakespeare married Anne Hathaway, the daughter of a farmer. He is supposed to have left Stratford after he was caught poaching in the deer park of Sir Thomas Lucy, a local justice of the peace. Shakespeare and Anne Hathaway had a daughter in 1583 and twins — a boy and a girl — in 1585. The boy did not survive.
Shakespeare apparently arrived in London about 1588 and by 1592 had attained success as an actor and a playwright. Shortly thereafter he secured the patronage of Henry Wrothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton. The publication of Shakespeare's two fashionably erotic narrative poems Venus and Adonis (1593) and The Rape of Lucrece (1594) and of his Sonnets (published 1609, but circulated previously in manuscript form) established his reputation as a gifted and popular poet of the Renaissance (14th century to 17th century). The Sonnets describe the devotion of a character, often identified as the poet himself, to a young man whose beauty and virtue he praises and to a mysterious and faithless dark lady with whom the poet is infatuated. The ensuing triangular situation, resulting from the attraction of the poet's friend to the dark lady, is treated with passionate intensity and psychological insight. Shakespeare's modern reputation, however, is based primarily on the 38 plays that he apparently wrote, modified, or collaborated on. Although generally popular in his time, these plays were frequently little esteemed by his educated contemporaries, who considered English plays of their own day to be only vulgar entertainment.
Shakespeare's professional life in London was marked by a number of financially advantageous arrangements that permitted him to share in the profits of his acting company, the Chamberlain's Men, later called the King's Men, and its two theatres, the Globe Theatre and the Blackfriars. His plays were given special presentation at the courts of Queen Elizabeth I and King James I more frequently than those of any other contemporary dramatist. It is known that he risked losing royal favour only once, in 1599, when his company performed "the play of the deposing and killing of King Richard II" at the request of a group of conspirators against Elizabeth. In the subsequent inquiry, Shakespeare's company was absolved of complicity in the conspiracy.
After about 1608, Shakespeare's dramatic production lessened and it seems that he spent more time in Stratford, where he had established his family in an imposing house called New Place and had become a leading local citizen. He died in 1616, and was buried in the Stratford church.
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|Topic Review (Newest First)
|Mike Britton
Yeah, everybody I talked to at Goodguys with heavy engines said they were having no problems with their front ends.
I 'm going to try to get the big motor as far back in the frame as I can to take advantage of that long wheelbase. It means I probably won't be able to run a set of laker style headers, but that's ok, as I have some cast iron truck headers that will probably make for a quieter exhaust note, and give some sanity to the car.
I live about 20 minutes North of Dallas in a little town called Highland Village.
It's cool here, every street you go down has some sort of project covered up on the driveway, and there are at least three buckets that I know of prowling around in the neighborhood.
While I'm on the suject of buckets, I just did the Ft.Worth swap meet. A handfull of buckets for sale there, and I'm biginning to see more ingenuity in design that other open wheeled rods. Lots of times, with an A, or deuce, everybody follows the leader, but buckets show more original thinking in suspension design and frame layout than others.
|Choctaw Bob
I love Q Jets. They are the best street carb by far. Not hard to maintain/repair once you know the common problems. The Q Jet by design is a very economical carb with small primaries that besides being stingey on gas, are very responsive at low speed. The secondaries and and dual accelerators make it be an awesome performance carb. If you can find them and afford them, the latest models were also pretty good on emissions.
Thanks for the carb formula
I will also look at the Holley add ons. Thank you.
|Choctaw Bob
My front end on the T-Bucket works perfect. I think the original model A spring was above the axel. I had one in '63 and it had a "spring over" axel that had been dropped 6 inches. The stock spring worked fine with a full race flathead, iron bell housing and iron case 39 Ford trans, which is probably nearly as heavy as the Big Block Chevy and modern aluminum case transmission.
Speedway and some of the axel/spring manufacturers might be able to tell you the capacity of the spring. If it is like mine, it can flex a long way before the car bottoms out. With mine, the engine sits far enough back that the weight distribution is about 50/50 so the total is around 950 pounds on the front spring. I think the original Model A Coupe probably weighed around 2800 pounds so we're not getting even close to the stock spring capacity, if that is what you have.
Where in Texas are you?
|Mike Britton
Hey big guy, how's yer front end??
I looked at your pics. How well does that four leaf front spring work with the big motor?
I have the same front end on my '29, only I plan to change hangers to move the spring above the axle. I'm changing mostly for looks, but also to get just a bit more height. I have 114" wheelbase to work in, so I don't have to shove the 454 out over the front crossmember like I would if I had a stock A frame.
|Choctaw Bob
Hey Mike, I'm from Texas too and a couple of years older. We probably rubbed some rubber on the same asphalt. Why don't you come by http://www.nationaltbucketalliance.com/bb/. We share the same kind of roadsters and have a big chapter in Texas with lots of guys to help out. You can probably get a antique tag for that track roadster pretty easy without having to pass emissions.
On the smaller carb is usually better, the reason is that a little engine doesn't suck enough air at low speed to maintain enough velocity in a big carb to drag fuel from the idle circuits. You compound that with a big cam with low vacuum and you have an engine that won't idle at all under 1,000 -1,200 RPM. I have that problem somewhat on my T-Bucket. I have a 60 over 402 Big Block Chevy with a tunnel ram and 2 500 CFM Edelbrocks. (check out my photos) The engine idles around 950 RPM with the throttle blades against the venturis and minimal idle air on one carb. There is enough air leakage in the new carbs that I have to richen the mixture to keep it from melting the headers off. Anyway, on the street, smaller is easier to tune, has better throttle response and is more economical. The only reason we would want bigger is if our buddy is smokin us on the track.
Good points Mike. Engines are just a big set of compromises. No engine is good at everything - to get the ultimate top end you give up the bottom end and vice versa. The "smaller is better" mantra applies to 99.99999% of the engines out there 'cause they are mostly run on the street from stop light to stop light. Vac secondaries are a really good compromise 'cause they give you the bottom end you can live with but also give you a lot of the top end that is fun.
And I am honored that an old fueler like you has joined our little chat room here.
|Mike Britton
Carb too big?
I'm listening to you guys, and I'm reminded of when Mike Norris and I were killing our selves in top fuel in the early '70's. We were running a cast iron '92 with the typical 6/71, and an old set of hilborn four port " Laguna lean outs" on top. We would come into stage having to wing the engine 'cuz it was so fat it didn't want to stay lit, and burning the tops of the pistons on the long end. Carbs are alot like injectors in that they work great in a very narrow RPM range, and only adequately any other time.
I did read an article some years back that said "within reason, a too large carb is better than a too small one in that it will only flow as many CFM's as the engine needs at any given time."
However, it only stands to reason that it all hinges around getting close to the correct CFM's for any given engine. The 600 is probably reccomended simply because that's about as small a four barrel as your'e gonna find, and it won't overwhelm the little engine in everyday use.
Did I just stick my foot in my mouth!?!
My q-jets have manual operated secondaries with an air valve. The air valve is not operated by vacuum but by the actual airflow going through the secondaries. Most people don't realize that the Q-jet also has a secondary accelerator circuit, a double pumper of sorts. I modified one of them to have a 1:1 ratio that makes the secondaries open at the same rate as the primaries. Throttle response is awesome, to say the least.
|Choctaw Bob
The Q-Jet has a small screw and spring that sets tension on the top set of butterflies on the secondary side. You can adjust this to allow the air to flow at a lower or higher RPM. Watch this though because you can really kill your gas mileage by having these open early.
This is a great carb for performance when you take the time to learn to adjust it. When I was in my 20s I had a garage. It got to where most of my business was rebuilding carburators. I learned to tweek the quadrajet because in the earily 70s, the manufacturers first attempt at controlling emissions was to lean out the carbs until they would barely run. I maintained a fleet of Federal Agent cars. They were continually getting outrun by people in older muscle cars. The 396 Impala and 440 Dodge cop cars really woke up with some adjustment on the metering rods and jets and secondaries.
I want to thank everyone that has contributed to this post.
My motor is finally running smoothly with good steady power on acceleration and at cruise speeds up and down the dial. My settings, after cleaning and rebuilding the Edelbrock 1405 (600 cfm) Performer consist of replacing the metering rods by one stage leaner and using the orange metering rod springs.
My rich living days are over and the motor is much happier now. It starts right away and once it has warmed up for about a minute (manual choke) it settles down to a decent idle. I think I need to work on the cold start settings a little more, but the improvement compared to before in remarkable. I'm no longer embarrassed to sit at a light and have to coax the car to stay running.
Thanks to all of you, especially Terje, for your patience and encouragement. All the additional discussion on related topics has also been very educational for a rookie just beginning to learn the basics to tuning a normally carberated motor. I am truely in your debts. Maybe some day I can return the favor.
|Q-jet is a vacuum secondary carb. Vacuum secondaries are the best of all worlds - only as much venturi open as needed for optimal responsiveness but plenty of flow area @ max load. Can be tuned for superior performance at all speeds and loads. Key word there is 'tuned'. They get bad raps from people who don't tune them properly.
You mean only the lower plates of the secondaries,but the secondaries still don't open(flow air) until they can be accepted by the demands of the motor,right? So to me the secondaries are not open to breath at the demand of your foot like a manual Holley would be. They need vacuum,vacuum operated secondaries. By opening the lower secondary plates you only create an opportunity for the secondaries to open up for flow completely.
What do you consider a Q-jet to be?
|The secondary throttle plates are opened mechanically on the AFB's and Edels, The Holley's that have vacuum secondaries have a vaccum diaphram chamber that opens the secondaries, as it is slower opening than mechanicals they don't need the air flow valve. As for vaccum ports for the distributor, I call them manifold vaccum and venturi vaccum.
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RAW images developed and saved as JPEGs from my a200 look great on my (Dell) screen, but print very yellow; shots taken in straight JPEG also look great on the computer but print very dark, although not yellow. Pictures from my Fuji and Panasonic compacts look and print normally. Is it just that Sony and Lexmark are incompatible?
Sony A200, Lexmark P4330 Printer
Started by TonyB, Mar 24 2011 10:24 AM
3 replies to this topic
Posted 24 March 2011 - 10:24 AM
Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:40 PM
I have experience using Lexmark printers but its not a good one. I prefer canon or hp instead
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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:16 PM
Lexmark has a large number of printers, will provide your company, did a good job. The first advantage, you will choose one of their printers is speed.
Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:22 PM
I have experience with Lexmark Printer. I will highly recommenced you to go through Cannon Printer.
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The Earth, Environmental and Geographical Sciences Department offers a variety of programs in earth science, geomatics, environmental science and environmental studies and sustainability, along with a certificate program in geographic information systems (GIS). The department is committed to excellence in teaching and preparing students for professional careers in education, governmental service, the private sector and graduate study.
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Dunkirk Grill Gazebo, Original Price $599.00
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Enjoy grilling and entertaining year-round with grill gazebo.
This gazebo provides shade and shelter for your grill while adding extra outdoor living space to your home. You will enjoy grilling out with family, friends, and neighbors year-round with this gazebo.
The fine detail and hand-applied finish gazebo also provides an outdoor cooking experience with generous storage capacity. The natural hand laid slate counter tops provides a serving and/or eating area to complete your outdoor dining capabilities.
View the assembly instructions here. (PDF)
- Natural hand-laid slate counter tops
- Durable powder coated finish
- All-steel contruction
- Vented hardtop roof
Assembled Country
Assembled Size
L 104.5" x W 65" x H 105.5"
Component Country


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'Ennis went just 2-10 Friday and is 22-35 for the season. Cody Hodgson (30-51) had one of his better games by going 10-11. Jochen Hecht (4-11) fell to 13-28 for the season. The only regular draw takers who have a winning percentage are Steve Ott (13-8) and rookie Mikhail Grigorenko (12-11).'
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January 26, 2013 Submitted by
Via: Buffalo News


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Unofficial disclaimer: First, this is a long write-up. Second, I do not condone any interior modifications that may put you at a greater risk of injury. This DIY involves removing several braces from the low dash that may keep your knees from entering the dash if you are dumb enough not to wear a seatbelt. If you take these parts out and have a frontal impact you may very well end up with your knees in the dash and likely be killed from the subsequent infection that will develop from the cuts. Lastly, I do not believe that you should do any work at all on your VW. Any work should be done by a VW dealership and a certified VW tech.
I wanted a little more storage space in my GTi and it turns out that our Passat Wagon has one of those nifty dash cubbies under the headlight switch. I thought it was the bee's knees so I decided to install one in the GTi. Got the parts from ECS without issue and quickly. It is not a terribly complicated job but it does demand a patient approach; there are many small clips and fancy materials that would like pretty bad with scratches.
There was already a very nice DIY for the MkV done by 'scotaku' back in 2006 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2539128) and then several others since that can be referenced in the MkV forum. Rather than reinvent the wheel here, I am just going to post an overview of the process with pictures of the more hairy parts and discuss a few differences between the MkV and MkVI install.
The objective:
Remove the left lower dash trim on the drivers side (LHD car) and replace it with a dash trim piece containing the cubby. I found it helpful to have a friend for a couple extra eyes and smaller hands, but you could hammer this out solo without a problem.
Parts needed:
1. Dash Cubby (PN-5K1857919D)
2. Optional adhesive felt to line cubby
3. Masking tape
4. Good flashlight(s)
5. T-20 and T-30 driver / socket
6. Ratchet with at least a 6 extension
7. Regular screwdriver (at least 8 total length)
8. 10mm ratcheting box wrench
Step 1. Prepare and inspect the parts:
Here are the two components that come with PN 5K1857919D:
I choose to line my cubby with adhesive-backed black felt so that I would not have any rattles or jingles from whatever the contents. This was quick work with some white paper for templates and an exacto knife for trimming.
Step 2. Remove dash panel:
Compare the new panel to the old one that is in place. It becomes clear that the mounting points on the new trim panel are different, but exactly the same as the MkV. There are 4 T-20 screws and 3 clips holding the dash panel in place. The clips are in the fuse-box recess on the left side.
First remove the HL switch and the T-20 screw in the HL switch recess:
Then along the bottom of the panel there are 2 T-20 screws in addition to the footwell light bracket with one T-20:
Once these are out you need to remove the fuse panel door, which is the flat panel shown below. Insert a small tip into the recess cut into the panel and work it all around the perimeter until to pops off. Here is the panel:
With the panel off you will see 3-4 clips that are holding the panel on; remove these and save for later. The last screw is a difficult one to get at and requires that you remove the center portion of the gauge cluster. I found this part very unnerving. To get a look at the screw, drop the steering wheel and pull it all of the way out. Then grasp the vinyl connected to the center of the gauge cluster and the top of the steering wheel and pull it over a bit to peak behind it. You should see a T-20 sitting there. To get a better sight on it we actually removed the black/chrome insert on the top of the dash panel. To do this, there is a long tab on the left of the black/chrome trim piece. Use a pick and push the tab through the slot and the edge of the piece will be free. The other attachment point is a metal clip that can be pulled straight out. With the dress-up piece off, you can see the screw pretty well:
However, to get this last screw out you must take out the center of the gauge cluster no way around it. So, take a nice sip of beer and grasp one side of the cluster. Pull firmly straight out. There are 2 metal clips on each side that fasten it in place. This takes some balls but trust me that it will come out before breaking in half. Here is one side of the cluster after it was pulled off:
Here is a photo of the center of the cluster after it has been removed showing the 2 midline clips:
Now you have just enough room to get that T-20 out. Protect your gauge bezel with some mask and remove with a T-20 driver:
Once you drop the panel you will have to disconnect the interior light rheostat:
Step 3. Remove structural brackets:
This is the difficult part of this install because one of the brackets has a bolt that is rather difficult to get at. Another issue is if it is a good idea to take out metal brackets from your dash? You can read about this ad nauseam in some of the MkV threads but the bottom line is that there are 3 brackets that are present on cars without the cubby. Interestingly, these are supposedly for preventing your knees from going into the dash, yet there is no replacement for them on cars that come from the factory with the cubby. Once the dash panel is off the brackets are very obvious as they are the only ones in the area.
There are 3 brackets to take out and one of them is very, very unpleasant to get at. These brackets are identical to those shown in the other DIYs for the MkVs. Here they are (removed):
The silver bracket spans under the steering wheel and is most difficult to remove without taking off the right lower dash trim (which I didnt do). We used the 10 mm ratchet to sneak up under there and remove the bolt. It was a long, slow, arduous process but it eventually comes out. I also pulled off the clip so that it wouldnt rattle in the future. Here is a shot of the wrench up under the lower right dash trim and actually turning the bolt:
The other two brackets are very easy to remove as their bolts are clearly exposed. Here is the largest bracket that covers some relays under the dash. They can be removed with a T-20 or a 10 mm ratchet. You can see it top dead center:
Finally here is the small L shaped bracket that crosses into the area of the fuse box:
Step 4. Install new dash trim and cubby door:
Once these brackets are removed, the lower dash piece can be installed, and the cubby door clipped on and closed. The new mounting points for the dash piece are clear and already had clips on them. Installing the parts is a snap after those brackets are out. When you are done, you have some extra space in a convenient location.
Modified by JTwGTI at 10:36 PM 1-27-2010


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About the Guest
Sam Saboura is not only a top stylist and fashion expert, he's television's original makeover authority.
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