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Math class is tough
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"Innumerate potshots" was clever.
I couldn't believe the problems I had explaining the three door problem to a bunch of educated, computer-literate folk. A lot of them couldn't accept that the opened door was a red herring.
The problem needs to be stated correctly, as it was in the article, or it's not really a math problem. In real life, Monty didn't always open a door, which means that whether switching is correct or not becomes an empirical issue (although you should still switch if your ONLY evidence of the likelihood a door will be opened is your own experience).
In case it wasn't clear in the above, many internet wiseguys who post the problem leave out that Monty is required to open a door. So then THEY are the fools.
Does Monty know where the two goats are or is he also picking at random?
Never mind, looks like it was answered between typing my question and actually hitting "submit".
I really need to get less distracted by shiny moving objects.
Monty knows.
Monty always knows.
It isn't a red herring. Its new information. People have problems with it because its Bayesian.
The opened door isn't a red herring, it's essential. It transforms the choice to picking between your original choice at the original 2-to-1 odds and picking the field. (Of course, this depends on the original disposition being random and Monty being obligated to open a door, as CaptBackslap says.)
It's a red herring because the problem is precisely equivalent to giving the player a choice of keeping his door, or choosing both other doors (without opening one), which of course makes the answer obvious.
That's an insightful way of explaining it.
I think a lot of the trouble with getting people to see it is that they have enough knowledge to be dangerous. They don't even consider that they might be wrong.
That's brilliant, at least in the sense that it makes the nature of the problem (and the logic of the answer) so much more obvious.
Mickey Kaus has the most trouble with this problem, because he can't figure out why you wouldn't just switch to the opened door.
It's easier for people to understand if you describe a version with a million doors instead of three, and then gradually taking away all of the doors except for the one you originally picked and one other. Do you really think that you got the right door out of a million on the first try?
Actually, yes, I do.
And – what if I really like goats?
mickey, is that you?
The frustrating thing about Politico et al is that it is very, very easy to think of a critique of Silver that holds up.
To wit:
"Silver, and those who use his numbers, are relying on the innumeracy of Americans to report a matter of statistics as though it were a matter of fact; by 'predicting' a 3 in 4 chance of victory for Obama they subtly want Americans to see Obama being the winning side as a fait accompli, lowering the motivation of potential Romney voters and making it more likely that undecideds will break for Obama."
Bullshit, of course, but a lot closer to a relevant critique (not to mention being more intellectually rigorous) than what they're peddling.
No, this isn't much better. "Matter of fact" and "statistics" are not mutually exclusive categories. There can be statistical, as well as probabilistic, facts. It's a matter of fact that a fair coin flip has a 50% chance of turning up heads.
Of all the things I've read and heard over the last two weeks, nothing gives me more optimism for an Obama victory than the entire right-wing world's pitchforks & torches attack on a guy who is pretty much just aggregating numbers using conventional methods.
Sabermetrics with real sabers.
the monty hall problem even confounded Paul Erdős … instead of goats & cars, i use obama and rmoney …
Nate Silver doesn't understand the intangibles, like clutchiness or locker room leadership.
How dare he discount the Romney team's veteran experience?
Hey looking at the two candiates we know which one would be called scrappy right?
To be fair, lots of people underestimated the added value Romney's hustle would bring to this campaign.
This emotional approach is not incompatible with a statistical approach. It can be used to describe the causes and effects of the phenomena that are measured statistically.
But that is not really informative, so ignore my trolling.
The best way to explain the Monty Haul problem is to expand the number of choices. I always use a deck of cards, putting all 52 face down and asking the player to pick the ace of spades. He picks one, I turn over 50 cards showing that they're not the ace of spades, leaving two face-down cards – the one he picked and the one remaining card I hadn't turned over. Then I ask him if he wants to swap cards. If he says yes, I look confused and ask why – isn't it a 50-50 choice? Usually the light goes on and they understand it's not a 50-50 choice, and that let's them see that the Monty Haul problem isn't 50-50 either.
That is a really nice explanation.
Yeah, it becomes much more obvious with more than three doors.
Any AM radio call-in sports show has more reference to empirical evidence and far more presumed understanding of probability, the scientific method, etc. than people who are paid to talk about politics for a living. It constantly amazes me. A lot of sports fans aren't interested in advanced metrics, or don't understand them, but they still fundamentally understand what probability *is*.
Nobody thinks that a WAR of 9 means a player is going to hit exactly 9 walk-off home runs in a year. Nobody thinks the bookies are wrong if a team wins but fails to cover the spread. Nobody thinks that because Kevin Durant averages 32 points a game, any time he scores more or less than that it proves that mathematics is fundamentally flawed and/or John Hollinger is a homosexual.
I wish political conversations in this country could be 1/10th as empirically and statistically driven as two drunks at the sports bar arguing the Manning brothers. Nobody's like "Pythagorean wins are unamerican, real Americans look at PyBUSHian wins" or some crap.
But what really fucking chaps my hide about this Nate Silver backlash is that it seems like you should know, even if you can't do grade school arithmetic, that to refute somebody's mathematical argument would require, you know, some math. Like, some squiggly Greek characters and stuff? Maybe a graph or a chart or something?
If this were about global warming or wind power or stem cells or whatever, they'd be sure to dig up something at least pseudoscience-y. But actual math is so far beyond their experience they have nothing to fall back on but booger-flinging rage. (Did you know that Andrew Wiles solved Fermat's last theorem by showing that Fermat was a wicked big quee-ah who had hands like a little bitch? It's true, he did!)
As a result, these anti-Silver articles read like somebody who doesn't speak any French phonetically transliterating something into English, and therefore deciding that French isn't actually a real language because of that. "Comb oh tally view"? I don't know what a tally view is, but I'm pretty sure you can't comb it!!! LOL french is stupid!
But Mitt's got momentum! Or I thought he did, but now with the new polls, it's starting to look like maybe Obama's taken the momentum back. It's probably because he's looking so Presidential in the aftermath of the hurricane.
Anyway, anyone who thinks they can assign a probability to who will win this election is just blowing smoke. It's just a fifty/fifty chance.
I wish political reporting would be like sports reporting in another way: the acceptance of empirical results.
With only a few exceptions who don't matter, there are no sports pundits who argue for two-way players or the single-wing offense in the NFL, or that having a jump ball after every basket would restore the NBA to its glory.
Yet in 2012 political discourse, we have pundits who promote views as old and useless as those.
Hell, most reporters can't even understand empirical data in SCIENCE reporting, let alone politics.
Exclude football.
Baseball, basketball? Great. But football is, in part, theater (more so than other sports). There is way too much noise and way too few N to say much about anything but the obvious.
And people are utterly irrational about football–it's about the same as politics, really.
The comment above and the responses to it are entirely too generous to sports fans, is all I have to say.
How much should we be reading into the Youtube url for that Scarborough video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbKkjm-gheY)
I'll be honest. I consider myself relatively perceptive and I have no fucking clue WHY the Monty Haul problem comes out the way it does.
I accept that its better to switch, because people have proven empirically that it is so, but I don't understand WHY. The part of my brain that's semi-decent at logic problems rebels at that choice. It screams at me "What the fuck does the open door matter? You have two doors. One of them is a goat, the other is a car. You already have a claim on one door that you can switch to the other one if you choose to. Why does how you GOT here matter?"
And it's never gotten an answer that makes sense to it, in the way that it has gotten answers that make sense as to other counter-intuitive things. It accepts the math, because the math is solid, but doesn't understand it at all.
If you know Monty Hall is randomly opening a door, then his choice reveals nothing and you have no more information than when you started. There's no point in switching in this case.
If you know that Monty Hall is opening a door based on his knowledge of where the goat is (and isn't), then his choice reveals information that you didn't have when you started. Switching doors is how you act on that information in this case.
close, but you're way off
Not sure why you think it's off, Julian. If Monty opens a door without knowing where the car is (not the original problem), you have to take into account the odds he picks the door with the car (1/3), and decide what to do in that case. If you just toss these cases out, what's left is 50/50.
There are three doors. I point at one of them (my first "choice"). Monty opens one of the other two doors (the two I did NOT pick).
Either Monty opens the door with the car, in which case I pick the door with the car, or he opens the door with the goat, in which case I switch.
Show me how it can possibly matter whether or not Monty knows where the goat is.
As I said, it depends on how you deal with the cases in which Monty chooses the door with the car. If the choice remains your door or the remaining unopened door, it's a wash (i.e if Monty picks the car, you lose, in all other cases it's 50/50).
But, as mentioned earlier, this is not the problem as presented.
Right, the first example wasn't the problem as presented, but I suspect it's the one Murc was confusing for the problem as presented. That's why I distinguished it from the second example (which was the problem as presented).
But Julian would rather pick the car after Monty shows him the car. If he thinks Monty will ever show him the car, I've got a goat to sell him.
I thought it was blindingly clear, but I guess it was not: I am aware that Monty will never show me the car.
Monty will always pick a door with a goat.
Whether or not he knows that the goat is behind the door is beside the point (although, given that the game is over if he picks the car, it seems likely that he knows where the car is).
Monty will always pick a door with a goat.
Whether or not he knows that the goat is behind the door is beside the point…
You've lost me mate. If he doesn't know where the goats are, how does he always pick a goat door?
Maybe it's a caper ex machina?
I have no idea what you are talking about. If Monty picks the car? Monty will never pick the car.
Monty will always pick a door with a goat. You are always better of switching. Monty's knowledge is irrelevant.
Because Monty isn't going to open the door with the car and therefore end the contest. (obviously everybody chooses the door where they know the car is). Monty opens the door with a goat because he knows a goat is behind that door and not a car. Therefore you know that you have a better chance of picking the car if you switch than if you stay. But its the same mathematical theory whether you think he may open the door with the car or if he does not have that option.
See FMguru's explanation above.
FMGuru's explanation doesn't make sense to me either. If I didn't already know the right answer (without knowing why its right) I'd always make the wrong decision, and I've never seen a logic chain (as opposed to cold hard math) that makes sense to me otherwise.
Put another way: my brain keeps thinking "The fact that all the wrong choices save one were taken away is irrelevant. There are two cards. One is the Ace of Spades. The other is not. I have already picked one. I may change if I want. If a random stranger were to wander in right now and were faced with these two cards, his choice would be 50/50. Why wouldn't mine be the same?"
Basically I've never been able to grok why that initial pick matters so much. No matter what you pick, all of the wrong choices (but one) are going to be cleared away. So whenever I sit down and try REASON (as opposed to math) I always come up with 'the initial choice means dick.'
But you are not a random stranger. You already made a pick that had a 1/52 chance of being right, then 50/52 of the wrong answers were taken away so that there is the 1/52 card you made and the 51/52 card. If you were to spin around in circles so you got dizzy and somebody shuffled the cards and asked you to pick one of the two cards, then you would be that person.
Or think of it that the other 50 cards are all combined with the other card that was not taken away. You can either stay with the one card that you first picked, or you can take the other 51 cards all together.
The reason is that you make your pick, and you are effectively offered either your pick (1 in 3 chance of winning) or the field (2 in 3 chance of winning).
Think of it in terms of three Cracker Jack boxes, only one of which contains a toy surprise. You pick one box. I then give you the choice of swapping the box that you chose for the two boxes that you didn't choose. You can see right away that two boxes give you twice the chance of getting a toy surprise that one box does. Now, after you make your choice, I could dump the contents of the two boxes that you didn't choose into a bigger box, start grabbing popcorn out of that bigger box and strewing it all over the place, whatever. But it doesn't change that the choice is between the box that you chose at the original 1 in 3 chance of winning and the field at a 2 in 3 chance of winning.
Cracker Jack is not the same. You're offering me two boxes for one, true, but you're not showing me that one of those boxes has no toy. Monty is, and that changes the odds to 1/2.
So how about if I take the big box, divide the contents back between the two smaller boxes, and offer you the two boxes for the one that you originally picked? Or divide the big box between four even smaller boxes? It doesn't change the fact that the choice is between the original box at 1-in-3 or the field at 2-in-3.
I mean, I don't need to show you that one of the boxes that you didn't choose contains only popcorn. There's only one toy surprise for the three boxes. You chose one box at 1-in-3 odds. It doesn't matter how I repackage the other two boxes, there's 2-in-3 odds that the other two boxes contain the toy surprise.
Only until I *know* that one box has no toy. Then I'm not choosing two boxes vs. one, but one vs. one.
You already know that one of those boxes doesn't have a toy in it, because the rules of the game are that there are three boxes and only one of them has a prize. Since you haven't gotten any new information, the odds stay one in three.
Basically I've never been able to grok why that initial pick matters so much.
First principles: The odds you initially picked the right card are 1/N, where N is the number of cards. Nothing can change that. If N-2 of the remaining cards are shown not to be the card, and all probabilities add up to one, the odds that the remaining card is the card is 1-(1/N)=(N-1)/N.
The odds you initially picked the right card are 1/N, where N is the number of cards. Nothing can change that.
You see, that's what I don't understand. If I was standing there not making a choice, and one of the doors was shown to be a loser, the other two doors would each be, for me, a 1/2 probability. If I had made an original choice of one of those two doors, my odds of being correct will have changed from 1/3 to 1/2, just like the observer's odds. I can "pick" my original door or the other one, and it does not change my chances.
If I was standing there not making a choice, and one of the doors was shown to be a loser, the other two doors would each be, for me, a 1/2 probability.
That's right. But that's a different game.
If I had made an original choice of one of those two doors…
Hindsight and probability don't mix well (if Schroedinger put a dead cat in the box…). You're overthinking, SPP.
You go in knowing nothing, and pick a door. That establishes the 1/3 odds. Then Monty opens a door showing a goat. That's always possible, whether you picked the right door or not – at least one of the remaining doors has one. The odds you picked the right door are still (always!) 1/3. Since there is only one door left, the odds for that one must now be 2/3.
Anyway, don't waste time worrying about it. Probably never happen!
Obviously it's time for deep research. I will accept that switching is correct, but I still don't get it. To the Wiki!
One perspective: Your initial choice puts a constraint on Monty. Suppose one goat is white, one is black. If you pick the white goat, Monty has to show you the black one; if you pick the black one, he has to show you the white one. In the 2-out-of-3 cases where you picked a goat the first time, you're forcing Monty to show you where the other goat is (because he never shows you what's in the door you picked, and he never shows the car).
Contrast: If you make no choice, Monty can choose to either show you the white goat or the black goat — you havent't constrained him at all.
Try this: Ignore the opening of the door, and pretend instead that Monty offers the choice of sticking with your original pick, or taking BOTH the two doors you didn't pick. Should you switch?
If a random stranger were to wander in right now and were faced with these two cards, his choice would be 50/50.
It doesn't matter if the second pick is made by a random stranger, as long as the cards aren't re-dealt. Card No. 1 still has a 1/52 chance of being the ace of spades, and card no. 2 still has a 1/2 chance.
Card No. 2 has a 51/52 chance of being the ace of spades.
Of course, the random stranger would have to know the history (which card was chosen by the player, which card was left by the dealer), otherwise from her point of view, the odds are 50/50.
(1) you're right about card no. 2, of course.
(2) the random stranger thinks the odds are 50-50–but they are not.
(2) the random stranger thinks the odds are 50-50–but they are not.
Odds depend on available information. She may know that one of the cards was picked by the player, but if she doesn't know which one, they are indistinguishable to her. So in that case, to her, the odds really are 50/50. For someone (Monty) who has all the information, the odds are 0/100.
Say you take Door #1. The chance that your choice is correct is 1/3. That chance doesn't change when Door #2 is opened to reveal a goat, so the remaining 2/3 chance is now with Door #3.
Nope. I still don't get it. Why doesn't my pick go from 1/3 to 1/2 when I see the goat? If it does, then the other unopened door is also 1/2 and it doesn't matter if I switch or not.
It doesn't because there were three doors and there are still three doors. Two of them are losers and one of them is a winner. After one of the kausgates is opened, two of the doors are losers and one of them is a winner.
Play it with FMguru's deck-of-cards version ten times. Switch five of those times. See how many times you win.
Let's call the initial possibilities Y (the prize is behind your door), L (behind the left unpicked door) and R (behind the right unpicked door). The probability of any of these is 1/3.
If Y, Monty will open the L door 1/2 the time and the R door 1/2 the time.
If R, Monty opens L every time.
If L, Monty opens R every time.
So say Monty opens R. This choice includes 100% of the L cases but only 50% of the Y cases. Therefore L is twice as likely as Y.
If Monty ALWAYS picked R in the Y case, then it would be 50-50 whether to stand or switch. But as he picks R in only half the Y cases, he's eliminated half the ways in which the prize can be behind your door.
Suppose you think of frequencies instead of probabilities, then. Suppose you have, say, 300 copies of the Monty Hall problem—i.e. 300 stages each with 3 doors. And you set off walking from stage to stage opening 1 door on each stage, so after several tedious and RSI-inducing minutes, you've opened 300 hundred doors. And your chance of getting a car is 1/3 each time, so at the end you can see roughly 100 cars and 200 goats behind the open doors, right?
So now Monty Hall goes along the 300 stages opening doors with goats, or actually he could just chalk "GOAT" or "X" on the doors or something.
And you feel that this changes the chances of your original pick from 1/3 to 1/2, so … what? Before, you could see about 100 cars and 200 goats behind the open doors, but now you can see about 150 of each?? Monty Hall chalking a mark on some doors caused roughly 50 goats to physically transmogrify into cars in front of your eyes? If not, in what sense has the probability changed?
Does that help a little bit?
Why does the prior choice matter?
The odds of my flipping a coin and getting heads 100 times in a row are astronomically tiny. But if by some miracle I flip 99 heads, the odds of getting that last heads aren't astronomically tiny; they're one in two, just like they were one in two for every flip before and will be for every flip after.
Because they don't have the option of moving the car between your first and second choices, the probability of the car being behind your chosen door (1/3) or either of the other two (2/3) does not change.
Because you make the first choice without knowing what's behind any of the doors. You have a one in three chance of being right, and a two in three chance of being wrong.
Now a.door you didn't choose is opened. Your odds of having guessed right the first time are still one in three. You just know that one of the two doors you didn't choose was wrong – but that was true anyhow. There's still a two in three chance that you chose the wrong door. That's why you always change the door.
Actually, the prior choice doesn't matter as long as (a) all possible initial arrangements are equally likely and (b) in the case where the prize is behind your door, Monty is equally likely to pick any of the remaining doors.
Why does the prior choice matter?
The prior choice matters because it constrains Hall's choice. The key to this problem is recognizing that Hall's choice of door to open is constrained both by your initial choice and the rules of the game. If you chose the car originally he can open either other door – but that only happens 1/3 of the time.
2/3 of the time your initial choice will be a goat – and that means that Monty is forced to open the only door left available to him that has a goat behind it. Which means that 2/3 of the time the other door remaining closed will have the car behind it and so you should switch.
Two things make this problem work – the fact that YOU make the original choice to constrain Monty's choice AND the fact that Monty is also constrained to only pick a door with a goat behind it. If you remove either of those elements the "always switch" rule disappears because the probabilities become independent of each other.
Jesus, Murc and SPP. Thank you. I am a SMART person, I swear to God, but this makes absolutely no sense to me. Thank you for explaining how your/my brain works, because every time I try, I get tied up in logic knots. Whether it's the goat behind the door, or the Ace of Spades, how the fuck is it not 50/50????
I think it's easier to understand if you imagine playing a lot of games at once. Say you play 300 games at the same time. In about how many of these games do you pick the goat on your first choice? About 200 times, right? So 100 times you picked the car.
Now Monty acts. In the 200 cases where you picked a goat, he opens the other door with a goat. The remaining door is the car, right?
In the 100 cases where you picked the car, he opens either of the other doors at random. The remaining door is the goat, right?
So in 300 games, the car's behind the third door about 200 times, and behind your door about 100 times.
A hat-tip to Paul from the happy mutants at Boing Boing:
On the chances it will rain: If it's 40%, I'm taking me brolly. I'm guessing Joe Scarborough only takes his if it's 100%.
Metereologists (used to, anyway) over-report the chances of precipitation. Since every jackass who dropped out of high school but is still capable of discerning rain on the top of his head thinks "they just make it up," they reasoned that it was better to be wrong in that direction. Nobody will really care that much if you forecast rain and it doesn't appear, but they'll be up in arms if you say 30% and a brief shower appears.
Tell the average person that .999… equals 1. The response usually falls just short of burning you at the stake as a witch, but not by much.
I love that one.
10X – 9X = X. Ergo, DAMN YOU TO HELL.
Oh god, not that discussion.
Don't make me bring up how the chances of a girl's sibling being a boy change depending on whether you know which one is older.
Most of these 'problems', it seems to me, hinge on verbally eliding a distinction between colloquial and technical meanings of terms, which when explained properly, are perfectly clear.
In these cases, it's not so much that as confusion about what counts as new information.
"If, for example, this particular weather forecasting model predicted a 75 percent chance of rain on 100 separate days over the previous decade, and it rained on 75 of those days, then we can estimate the model's accuracy in this regard as 100 percent."
But … that isn't how you should judge probabilistic predictions of "one-off" events. You should use the Brier score, or any other proper scoring function! A "100 percent accurate" model would be certain of rain on 75 of those days, and certain of sunny skies on the other 25 days.
Instead, you should judge the accumulated "distance" between the probability provided and what actually happens over a time frame. Whichever model has the closest distance wins.
I don't see the point of pretending all Nate Silver does is average polls. If that was all he did, NYT wouldn't be paying him to do it because a script can be written to do that in 2 minutes.
Nate Silver averages polls, assesses the weighting of these polls based on his estimation of their accuracy, his estimation of the time-window of validity of these polls, and the questions they ask; he has something called "state fundamentals" scores which assess the underlying political environment of a state apart from polling on a specific election question, and then this information affects his forecasting model. He runs, afair, Monte Carlo simulations of elections, which means he has to assign a confidence level-like thing to each state's predicted election outcome (I guess this is like the "energy cost" to deviate from standard behaviour in MC terms as I understand it?).
My point is, Nate Silver puts in a lot af added value into 538. That's clearly a very good thing. I don't actually know what difference that makes to his predictions as opposed to "brute force averaging all the polls and that's it" but presumably there is some difference. But obviously you can disagree with his decisions on all of those points.
So the conservative/punditocratic critique of "averaging is morally wrong! durrr!" and Paul's defense of "well, it's just averaging, there's nothing to it" are both wrong to me. A reasonable critique of Silver would be "well, I disagree with his decisions on all of these points because blah blah blah, and since presidential elections are much more rare than weather, we haven't accumulated sufficient data to decide whether his approach is actually good". I don't see anyone saying this, though.
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OK guys, at this point Mishael has agreed to take over running the rest of the adventure. My job has been crazy lately (working about 70 hours this week!), and I just don't have the free time needed to devote to keeping this fun for all of you. Mishael was going to run the next adventure, so he is just stepping in a little early. I'll still be around, and will join the next adventure (or maybe sooner...)
Thanks to all, it's been a pleasure!
Round 8
The falls silent as the combat comes to an end.
Let me clarify a few things for Suny and Karsielle so that we can complete this round.
Suny: You spot a broken candleopera laying on the floor in front of you. You can try to throw a ranged improvised item into melee, but you know it'd be difficult to hit exactly who you'd want.
Karsielle: The cultist still stands after taking a hit from Mishael. You peer down the hallway. It is completely dark and you see nothing for a moment before a light at the end of the hallway, apparently from someone opening a door into better lit room, shows the silloutte of someone leaving the hallway and entering that room.
I hope everyone had a great holiday and a happy new year! My life has been very hectic and I've gone from doing 3 PbP's to just this one as I have had the most fun running it. We're getting close to the end though, but that likely means another two months of real world time!
Round 7 (continued)
Bloody moves in to help Mishael and attacks the cultist. His blade swings true and he draws blood. However Mishael isn't able to make contact.
Karsielle joins the fray and touches the cultist with her hand. He seems to freeze in place for a moment as the cleric's magic overwhelms him.
Silas moves up to support his friends but is unable to find an open spot to get at the cultist.
Suddenly the evil chanting emanating from the secret tunnel stops.
Round 8
[ooc]The cultist is dazed this round and is unable to take any actions!/ooc]
Hi all! Since we're running this in the pirate city of Freeport, I thought I'd share a Kickstarter project that I'm excited about. Razor Coast from the defunct Sinister Adventures has been resurrected. It should be an awesome sandbox adventure full of pirates, sea battles, and weresharks!
Should get The next round up tomorrow.
Suny gets a moment of clarity and realizes she is badly wounded. She retreats (to C5) as her mind begins to cloud again.
Round 7
The remaining cultist doesn't phased by seeing his pet's head rolling on the floor. He swings once again at the Azhari, still grinning his evil grin as the horrible chanting remains emanating from the hallway. 1d20 + 7 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 7 + 2 = 13 He misses and Mishael escapes with no damage taken.
Suny & Silas, you'll be glad to know that your confusion is over, you may act normally!
I assume Bloody is moving to G7 to perform his attack.
We're getting a little out of order on who is acting in which round. Bloody & Mishael have given me their Round 7 actions. I need Round 7 actions from Suny, Silas, and Karsielle. There is the cultist in H7 and someone doing the evil chanting down the secret tunnel who you can not see.
Suny gets a moment of clarity and realizes she is badly wounded. She retreats (to C5) as her mind begins to cloud again.
Round 7
The remaining cultist doesn't phased by seeing his pet's head rolling on the floor. He swings once again at the Azhari, still grinning his evil grin as the horrible chanting remains emanating from the hallway. 1d20 + 7 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 7 + 2 = 14
Suny & Silas, you'll be glad to know that this will be your last round of confusion. To speed things up I'll make your rolls for you. Suny: 1d100 ⇒ 70, Silas: 1d100 ⇒ 27
Suny, your Con is down to 4, so you're total hit points has gone down from 21 to 9 and you have been hit for 9 points of damage so you are Disabled and are severely limited in what you can do. I rolled a percentile dice for you and you can act normally this round.
Silas stops his babbling and believes he sees an enemy directly in front of him. He swings his longsword and misses his good friend Bloody.
Bloody swings his sword at the monstrosity that just fell his friend and gashes it.
Mishael's eyes light up and she swings her cutlass with a determination that those in her party have never witnessed. Her swing strikes true as she decapitates the grotesque humanoid. It falls to the floor next to Suny, its open neck spilling blood quickly.
Karsielle, remember Mishael didn't get that healing spell last round because you had to do a full round movement. She is moving this round but I'll let you get off that healing spell before she does.
Mishael, you get healed for 18 points.
Suny, let me know what you will do and then I'll begin the next round.
Sorry for the delay again folks!
Karsielle, you can keep that roll for the healing, you'll just have to apply in round 6.
Mishael, I had to do a bit of retcon'ing here and keep you in H6 so that Bloody and Karsielle could move into position. It works out better for you since you're able to get healed next round. It also works out better for Suny this round. I guess H5 just wasn't meant to be!
Suny stars screaming as she reacts to being hit by the animated intestine that hangs from the creature's face. She stands and the intestine comes at her again. AoO:1d20 + 2 ⇒ (15) + 2 = 17 it hits for 1 point of damage and 1d4 ⇒ 2 points of Con damage!
As Silas continues to mutter strange sounds, Bloody moves into the fight. He swings his longsword at the creature attack Suny but is unable to make contact.
Mishael, finding herself in a desperate situation, attacks the new cultist. Her cutlass draws blood, but the cultist still seems determined to dine on her flesh.
Karsielle senses Mishael's plight and works her way down the hallway to lend aid. She passes by the disgusting humanoid and he is too distracted with Suny to attack the cleric.
The creature attacks Suny once more, perhaps sensing the elf's death. It raises its arm and attempts to slam Suny in the side.
Round 6
Initiative Order:
I finally got an updated map! Here is the link.
Suny! How you are getting pretty low on Constitution! You only have a 4 Con score right now.
Karsielle, I'll let you take a full round move and get to H5. You'd take on AoO but in place to help Mishael next round. How does that sound?
Here is the old Map. The only thing that has changed is that the cultist in H5 is dead.
"Suny" wrote:
Suny, you need to roll percentile dice each round to see what you will do. The cultist whose legs you were trying to grab is dead now, so you will need to roll a dice to see who you attack (if that is the case again), Mishael, the "thing", or this new cultist, since they are all equal distance from you.
Round 4
Bloody casts a spell at the remaining cultist. Will: 1d20 + 4 + 2 ⇒ (20) + 4 + 2 = 26, he saves and is shaken for 1 round.
The thing next to Suny continues assaulting the elf, prone on the floor. It reaches out with its intestine face mask (1d20 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (8) + 2 + 2 = 12) and attaches to Suny's ribs (for 1 point of damage and 1d4 ⇒ 4 points of Con damage).
Round 5
Initiative Order:
The map should be the same except that cultist 1 is gone.
Karsielle wrote:
Silas, you get another shot. Roll another Will save with a +2.
"Suny" wrote:
Suny, you will need to do what I described above for Silas. Roll percentile dice and do the action described on this link. If you have to attack nearest creature and more than one are same distance, then assign each person a number and roll to see who you attack. Just let me know if you need help.
Silas Vayn wrote:
Uh-oh! Mechanically this will work like you are confused. Each round you will need roll to see what actions you perform according to this chart (link).
Round 4
The cultist in front of her reaches back with his large sword to swing, "Kill her!!" shouts someone behind her just as the sword comes. Bastard sword: 1d20 + 7 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (10) + 7 + 2 + 2 = 21. Mishael's quick reflexes saves her from the first attack. Then comes the one from behind her. Bastard sword: 1d20 + 7 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (12) + 7 + 2 + 2 = 23, damage:1d10 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (7) + 2 + 2 = 11. The attack from her other side hits and wounds the Azhari badly (for 11 points of damage).
Another cultist has come out of a hidden door to flank Mishael. The wailing/chanting sound is coming from beyond the secret door.
The barricade is disassembled, so the others can move into the fight now. Treat those two squares as difficult terrain (double move). The furniture is piled up behind Karsielle, so it will keep anyone from retreating out into the hallway. Just FYI...
Initiative Order:
Round 3 (continued)
Suny tries to grab the cultist from the floor but is unable to get a good hold on him.
Silas moves a chair from the pile and hands it back to Bloody, clearing the way in front of him somewhat. He then hears the cultist's words and his minds fills with the images he saw earlier as he ate human flesh chanting Adhelmus Xaoghul's name! Silas, make a DC 20 Will save!
Bloody and Karielle work together to remove the last of the furniture used as a barricade.
Mishael strikes at the cultist again, but is unable to make contact. No flanking, sorry.
The humanoid "thing" shoots its intestine at Suny again, who is laying on the floor without protection. 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (16) + 2 = 18 It hits the naked elf and pulls blood from her body. Suny takes 1 point of damage and needs to make a DC 12 Fort save or else take 1d4 ⇒ 1 of Con damage!!
Thanks for the warm wishes everyone!
Bloody, the three of you (Silas, Karsielle, and yourself) are finishing removing the baricade this round. It got pushed back because Silas helped Suny jump. I'll apply your chanting next round.
Mishael: I think the cultist is not prone any longer even though you are (in theory) hitting him when we is in the act of standing. I did some research and couldn't find a conclusive answer but this is the way I intreptreted it from the rules. So your AoO attack misses. However, I will retcon the +2 damage and you also have your regular action for this round.
Sorry for the delay again. Work keeps getting in the way of fun...
Suny yells out to Silas to help her over, then comes running down the hallway. The hallway is too crowded, and Suny isn't able to get the speed needed to clear the pile, but Silas grabs hold of her and throws her over. Suny goes flying through the air and the cultists screams as a naked elf hits him in the stomach. They both go down to the ground prone.
If the others in the hallway work together, I'll say you can dismantle the barricade enough so that spaces F5 & E5 are just difficult terrain (double move).
Karsielle searches her mind to see if she knows anything about the grotesque humanoid aiding the cultist to no avail.
Mishael stands up and swings at the cultist laying on the floor. She takes a moment to ensure that she doesn't strike Suny, and lands a clean hit 9 points (12 total).
As she stands, the humanoid lashes out at Mishael once more 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13 but misses
On its turn, the humanoid attempts to swing his arm at Suny who is laying on the floor. 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (8) + 4 = 12 And hits for 1d4 ⇒ 2 points of damage.
Round 3
Initiative Order:
Suny, when you stand it could get nasty. I take it you have no armor?
All, sorry to do this, but I need to end this campaign. My work life has been and will be too hectic for the next several months, and I don't have the time needed to make this a fun and compelling adventure.
Crowds of people race about covered in dust, shrieking for loved ones. Others riot and loot. Prophets walk the ruins burning incense from small braziers and chanting doom. Suddenly, a torrent of city guards race past, violently pushing through anyone blocking their path. The guards head in a northeasterly direction towards the center of the City. A dazed merchant runs by shouting something about a massive sinkhole suddenly appearing that swallowed the center of the City.
The group continues toward the devastation where a great many of the Night Watchmen create a living wall that surrounds the perimeter of a massive and inexplicable sinkhole. All citizens are told to stand clear and vacate the premises.
Eventually the tremors stop and the sinkhole remains seemingly devoid of any further activity. As the weeks go by the City gets attempts to get back to normal, but the people of the City seem to get more and more superstitious as they look for a reason that this great calamity has befallen them. As this happens, so does a startling increase in underground religious networks, their actions becoming more and more brazen and bold.
That's it! I truly enjoyed GM'ing this adventure and I'd like to thank each of you for your time. I hope you had a little fun along the way.
...and I'm back! Sorry for the delay and thanks for waiting. Had to work a ton of hours to meet a deadline for work, but now things should be getting back to normal.
Xarina looks out the window and can see the street filled with people running, all with a look of panic on their face. Some are screaming, others crying. Some are holding their children in their arms, others have most of their personal belongings.
From the look of the buildings along the street, Xarina can tell that the building they find themselves in is one of the many warehouses in the southeastern part of the Trades Ward, close to the Docks. Reminder: There is a link for the map of the districts in the Campaign Info tab. Most of the panicked people are coming from the north and the east.
Everyone in the Night's Watch is issued one pair of manacles. Not sure if I told you that at the beginning, but everyone please add that to their inventory if you haven't already done so.
Round 2
Initiative Order:
The cultist finishes loading his crossbow and aims it at Silas and fires.
Suny, the hall is too crowded to attempt a jump now.
Everyone, looking at the make-shift barricade or piled up furniture, you estimate it would only take about 1 round of everyone working together to take the top pieces of furniture and move it out of the hallway, assembly line style.
OK, I'm back! Thanks for everyone's patience. Been working 12-14 hour days the last two weeks. Hoping life will return to normal now. Let's see...where were we?
Silas moves in to get within range to throw his dagger. It goes wide right and clangs off the back of the far wall.
Bloody fires a dart toward the cultist and hits him squarely in the chest.
The cultist hits Mishael in the leg with his cross bow (same 4 hp's from the beginning of the round, this isn't new damage), which keeps her from getting up to speed to clear the barricade. She thinks she may yet clear the pile of furniture, but the tow of her boot hits a chair leg and she goes toppling over. She lands on her back with a grunt, laying right next to the creature whose face seems to be covered in animated human organs!
Karsielle calls on her deity, Will:1d20 + 4 ⇒ (11) + 4 = 15 but the cultist is still able to move.
The creature, standing next to the prone body of Mishael, lashes out with his grotesque face intestine. 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (2) + 2 = 4 She rolls her body left and the intestine is too slow.
Without a ranged weapon, Silas is unsure of what to do. Bloody is able to hit the cultist in the chest with a small dart. While Silas waits on a plan, Mishael suddenly runs past him running full out towards the barricade.
Mishael, to make this more dramatic, I'll let you make the roll. (Acrobatics DC: 18)
The man, about 30 years in age, is wearing large britches and shirtless. Several tattoos of poor quality cover his arms and chest. He looks humiliated and answers Xarina. "Whaterethey brin' up through that door thar. All sorts o' things. Anythin' that be dubloon, liquor, sculptures, e'en books. I be jus' a helper, really."
As he finishes, another tremor starts to shake the building. The rattle of stolen goods are drowned out by loud terror-filled screams from outside.
As Mishael approaches the barricade to get a better look, a cultist stands up and fire his crossbow. Next to him is a deformed humanoid with what looks to be bloody intestines extruding from his face. A length of intestine reaches out over the barricade as attempt to latch onto Mishael!
1d20 + 5 ⇒ (9) + 5 = 14
Both attacks miss!
That was their surprise round. Initiatives!
Bloody: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13
Initiative Order:
The man is about to strike Xarina when he sees the other Watchmen enter the room. He glances at the door leading out to the alley, which is blocked by crates of stolen goods. Being outnumbered, he decides to listen to Xarina's and Nathaniel's warnings. He drops his swords and backs up. "I be jus' a helper here. I didna do anythin' to no one!"
Initiative order:
Round 1
As Malchius enters the shack it is apparent that the building is a little larger than it appeared from underground, it looks more like a small warehouse. He can also identify the ambient noise. It is coming from outside and it is the sound of a large group of people screaming and crying in a panicked state.
The man looks startled for an instant but quickly realizes that the Watchmen are not here to bring more stolen goods. He drops the crate and it spills onto the floor joining many other toppled boxes. He then reaches for his sword. When his hand finds his scabbard empty he looks at the adjacent wall where a longsword rests. He rushes to it and brings it up as he approaches Malchius. That's all he can do this round.
Nathaniel and Xarina's turn. I'm going to try and run this without a map. Xarina, the man is next to you and Malchius. If you stand up at this location the man will get an AoO. Nathaniel and Garret, there are two free spaces next to the hatch that the man does not threaten.
OK, I'm going to assume that everyone is good with the order that Nathaniel spoke.
The group starts slowly up the ladder as quietly as they can. The handle of Xarina's greataxe knocks against the ladder at one point, but the sound is drowned out by the ambient noise coming from the shack, or perhaps beyond the walls of the shack.
Once everyone is in position, she throws the hatch open and rushes inside. Just as she gets herself to the floor she can see the a tall man standing near a far wall, both hands occupied carrying a crate filled with golden candle operas.
Xarina was able to open the hatch and get inside with her surprise action. She is currently prone on the floor. Each of you will need to take two move actions to get through the hatch and stand up.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Asustek Computer has launched the KFSN4-DRE series server board and RS161-E5 server system with advanced design guidelines and equipped with the latest Dual Dynamic Power Management and Dual Link technology for native quad-core performance, targeting at the high-performance computing (HPC) market and enterprise-class applications.
The KFSN4-DRE series is the first Dual Dynamic Power Management ready platform with front parallel-balance CPU and memory placement designed to increase thermal efficiency by up to 20-30%, claimed Asustek.
- Wireless broadband developments in Southeast Asia markets
As of 2013, the 10 ASEAN nations had a total of over 700 million mobile subscriptions, with the CAGR from 2003-2013 reaching 24%. This Digitimes Research Special Report analyzes the various mobile broadband markets in ASEAN and looks at the respective trends in 4G LTE development for those markets.
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text:
Open daily from 10:00 to 17:45
Open Friday from 10:00 to 22:00
This Indian retelling of the great flood story is illustrated in the Patua style of scroll painting from West Bengal, India, offering a universal perspective on an ancient tale.
The Patua is a folk form that combines performance, storytelling and art. In this book, the traditional essence of the style is retained, but the vertical Patua scroll has become horizontal, nudging the art form in an entirely new direction.
This book was published in the UK & Europe in February 2013 via Bounce Sales & Marketing, and the cover design is by Nia Murphy.


text:
... to Accuair Switch Speed management. Airlift XL fronts and rears.
Finished the install over the weekend, in the rain. Heres a pic of the car unwashed and the wheels dirty as hell, still needs a frame notch, and my tires arent helping at all.
Ive already picked out the new wheels, but ill be running these for dust off. They are being refinished in white again, hopefully by next week
Updated Pics/wheels Pg. 2


text:
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San Leandro Long Gun Open Carry Event Damp Squib
Posted on October 23, 2011 by Robert Farago
on www.thetruthaboutguns.com
"The intent was to raise awareness of the legal right of Californians to carry unloaded rifles and shotguns in public," sfgate.com reports. Well, the media did cover it. That counts for something right? "The venue was a corner of the parking lot of Bayfair Center. And while mall management roped off 165 spaces to accommodate the rally, no more than 30 opponents of gun-control laws stopped by the midday event." So was the San Leandro long gun open carry rally a good idea or not? I'm thinking . . . not. The main problem? This is not the normalization you're looking for . . .
Full story: San Leandro Long Gun Open Carry Event Damp Squib | The Truth About Guns
OK, I'm all about the right to carry to protect your self and family but.....
Why would you want to carry an unloaded gun?:confused::confused::confused:


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|Thread Tools
WELCOME TO THE "ONE" THREAD for May 27 - June 3!!!
posted by alexisyael in 2004:
The One Thread is designed for all on the MDC board. No matter where you are in your cycle, you are welcome to join the One Thread! We are also open to those who are "Waiting to be Ready" for one reason or another. We continue to embrace those of us who have become pregnant as well. Feel free to jump in at any time and introduce yourself!
To help keep the list current and manageable, members will be deleted after a month of not posting to a One thread.
Please make add/remove/change requests in Bold.
Waiting to O
Waiting to Know (2WW)
Big congrats to you all!!
Graduate Thread in I'm Pregnant:
(the current thread keeper can update the graduate link as needed)
April BFP's
February BFP's
Doula, teacher, designer, maker. Living above the mangroves, looking out over the water in beautiful Aotearoa with my husband, our dear friends and a little grey cat.
Wow, congrats TropicalFever!! That's amazing news! Sorry I've been so quiet this week, for some reason Mothering stopped alerting me to new posts both via email and on my account dashboard so I didn't realise anyone had been posting!
Could you please let me know where you're all at so I can update the list above? Thanks!
Doula, teacher, designer, maker. Living above the mangroves, looking out over the water in beautiful Aotearoa with my husband, our dear friends and a little grey cat.
Hey, thanks for the new thread. I am Waiting to Know (2WW).
3DPO and the prettiest chart I've ever had so far.
Lovin' my sweetheart, pregnant with #1 (EDD Feb.2013)
You can move me back to waiting to O. I started a second round of m/c bleeding last week so I must have been waaaay off thinking I was O'ing already. Anyway, I am def DONE with bleeding and back to cervix checking and CM checking. High, Firm, Closed today! I am going to roughly count today as CD6 because that is when I normally would quit bleeding.
On a side note, my daughter got to order some monarch chrysalises (?) from her school and we get to pick them up this afternoon!!
Well AF finally arrived on Sunday, 10 days late - the longest ever. So back to "Waiting to O" for me.
BaileyB - the butterfly crystalles seem like a lot of fun. What a neat activity for your daughter to get to see the butterflies being "born". Have fun with that!
AFM - Well, I've done exactly what I said I wouldn't do and now I'm in a pretty depressed mood. I promised that I wouldn't do a lot of early testing, and I have. They are all about as negative as you can get -- nothing even to squint at. My temps have been up and down the past few days. It dropped below the coverline on Sunday, but was back up yesterday. Now it's dropped again, not below the coverline but still. AF is due in the next few days so time will tell. I'm trying to get my mind off of it and shake it off. DH and I are taking DS to the Children's Museum today so that should help. I'm just so emotional right now & want to cry. So silly. But then hey - it could be an early preggo sign OR just PMS. *sigh*. Thanks for letting me vent. Just needed to get that off my chest.
Hope everyone else is having a good morning & great day.
Beth - blissfully married to Doug. DS - Liam (5/10) & Darcy (2/13). . New SAHM & Labor Doula.
Welcome baby girl! Born at home, in the water, in the caul, and caught by daddy. February 24, 2013!
Thanks for starting this thread again!
I am starting again in the 2WW. 2DPO now. Praying that the IUI we did worked this time!
mayday: hang in there! just know this waiting period won't last forever :)
I'm waiting to know and will be testing tomorrow which will be 15dpo I *think*. If not, then might be only 12 or 13 dpo.
I am counting the o day based on cm only, since I wasn't temping then. I only had watery cm for 2 days and counted o day as the 2nd of those days. Never got ewcm except for after BMs a couple of days, but then dry the rest of the day. So, not sure what to think about those days.
Anyway, got some kind of a super duper faint line yesterday but it didn't have any color to it so we'll see what tomorrow's test looks like.
Having lots of possible preg symptoms and my breasts are *really* hurting today.
Fingers crossed for all of us!
Thanks for the new thread and happy baby dust to all of you.
cont me as 2ww, I think O has happened but my temps are all over the place this month so I may be a little off ... still doing the BD just in case.
maydaymom10 - I agree with odinsmama, hang in there! Last pregnancy I got a completely stark white BFN at 12DPO and a very faint BFP at 14DPO.
And on that note, I'm trying to rely on my last experience as a really good reason not to test until Sunday (14DPO). It's working (mostly) but I still get that little nagging voice saying - but what if this time you COULD get a BFP early? I'm trying to ignore it!
Married to my wonderful DH 5/2010, Mom to DS1 Kayden 7-14-2011
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and DS2 Jakob 8-29-2013
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Owned by Friesians horses, dogs, cats, rabbits and chickens. Happily Homesteading in Saskatchewan!
Hi, everyone!
Happy to see that everyone is doing well!
Please move me to 2ww. This is my first TTC cycle, so I'm new to all of this. I have symptoms, but probably imaginary ones. I had cramping 5 days DPO and since then have been pretty exhausted. We'll see.
Congrats to all of those with little pink lines!
Well, I am 14dpo and expecting AF any minute now, literally... I think? I'm feeling thrown off, I've been having some twinges/fluttering/sort of thumpy feelings. Could be gas, probably is... I had a BFN day before yesterday (Day 12) but on an "early detection" test, so I'm definitely expecting AF. But still feeling a bit odd.
An extrovert, married to my introverted dh since '01, mothering my girls C (2003) and G (2006).
Love homeschooling, reading, cooking (most of the time grain-free except for when I'm not
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), lactivist, former and wanna-be cloth diaperer and baby-wearer...
I'm waiting to know.
Due to start af the 4th of June so if I don't start then I will test.
BaileyB, the butterflies sound really fun. What a lovely image to have as you continue on your ttc journey.
doularebekah, please list me in the 2ww.
This is our first cycle ttc after a miscarriage last year. We have one ds and are looking forward to giving him a sibling soon. I think I'm at 1 DPO, but have already had very weird symptoms. Could be imaginary, could be real. We'll know soon. Cramping (I never get cramping pre-AF) and super fatigued.
Looking forward to reading about everyone else...
Move me back to waiting to O. AF officially arrived this evening. Now I know that I can add extreme crabbiness and mood swings to my list of PMS symptoms.
DH still doesn't quite get how this whole "cycle thing" works and is ready to go try again -- now. He's enjoying this way too much
Good luck to everyone still in the hunt this month.
Beth - blissfully married to Doug. DS - Liam (5/10) & Darcy (2/13). . New SAHM & Labor Doula.
Welcome baby girl! Born at home, in the water, in the caul, and caught by daddy. February 24, 2013!
Hi all!
Lots of new names around here. I graduate in less than 2 weeks and am looking forward to a bit more spare time so I'll probably be posting more regularly again. :)
I guess I can be moved to Waiting to know. FF seems to change its mind every day as to when I ovulated, so I have no idea. It keeps switching between CD14 and CD21, which really is a huge spread. This cycle has been totally weird and I'm going to try progesterone cream for the fourth time this cycle. Every other time I've tried it, my temp drops a bit the next day. I don't know if this is a bad sign or what. Does anyone have experience with it?
Here's my chart if anyone's interested: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/9f639
Teacher, wife, food-geek. Celebrating 11 amazing years with my husband this year. We're in our mid-30's and excited to have our first baby in March 2013!
odinsmama, sounds good!
Can I be added to the list? Here is my chart link: My Ovulation Chart
I guess I'm Waiting to Know.
First TTC cycle and it's been weird. I have been taking a really powerful vitamin which seems to be shortening my cycle over all but lengthening my LP and that's a good thing. I have been O'ing around CD18 and if I O'd when I think I did, it was CD14.
On CD9- I went to the dr for an ear infection so I was taking antibiotics and a psuedophedrine-based decongestant so the CF I had from CD10-CD14 was less than usual but was there (if a little early). On CD15, I dried up and no CF since then. Which is why I think I might have just O'd early but didn't have much CF (compared to normal). I thought I might be off on my days but it's CD17 and no signs of O at all now, including a negative OPK. Unfortunately, I didn't temp this month so I don't have that to confirm with. If I did O last week, the BD timing was good so I'm hopeful but it's just frustrating not being able to pinpoint the day (I usually can very easily).
My DH is just positive that we'll get pregnant this month and I can't seem to convince him that it could take us several months (at least) to get a BFP. I love his confidence but I think he's going to be awfully disappointed if it doesn't happen right away. Men are so black and white. :)
Children's librarian, married to J since 5/12, with 3 and 1 crazy . TTC #1, planning on , , and .
Lots of new names on here and far too many old ones. Hope you ALL get your sticky BFPs very, very soon!
doularebekah, please put me in waiting to O. I expect to be there till at least June 10th, *sigh*.
odinsmama, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!
My Dh doesn't quite get it either. I have noticed that it is a bad idea to tell him which days are my fertile days because although he wants another baby, whenever I have told him that I was fertile on a particular day I can just see a reel in his brain playing a movie of me puking in a bucket with really bad morning sickness with my previous pregnancies. I think it totally kills the mood for him.
Odinsmama- how are things looking for you?
AFM- 6 DPO and I've had mild cramps/tops of legs aching and lots of CF. As well as very tired. I know it's really early but these things are making me hopeful! of course, this is our first TTC cycle so everything is new and exciting. :)
Children's librarian, married to J since 5/12, with 3 and 1 crazy . TTC #1, planning on , , and .
hey ladies!
Got my positive test the other day! Hoping to see some of you very soon over in the pregnant forum!!
Congrats! So happy for you.
Beth - blissfully married to Doug. DS - Liam (5/10) & Darcy (2/13). . New SAHM & Labor Doula.
Welcome baby girl! Born at home, in the water, in the caul, and caught by daddy. February 24, 2013!
Congrats odinsmama! Wonderful news!
Hope the BFPs keep coming!
Lovin' my sweetheart, pregnant with #1 (EDD Feb.2013)
Hello all,
Sorry for not posting, I went on a weeks vacation to visit my parents. Thought I would be good and chart while I was gone but I ended up getting AF...I never even ovulated! So weird, but I guess that with just having my iud out, I should have known things would be thrown off. Oh well. At least I have a good starting point to chart and figure out my cycle. Pretty normal AF for me three days and pretty much done. Now on to waiting to O........
Congrads to Odinsmama!!
Oh I forgot to ask, how do I add the link to my chart?
Just post a link to your chart in this thread and add some bold text to alert doularebekah you're requesting a change to the first post. She'll add a chart link beside your name.
If you're wondering how to create a link to your chart/create your sharing page on FertilityFriend, go to the menu near the top right: Sharing - Charting Home Page - Setup.
Lovin' my sweetheart, pregnant with #1 (EDD Feb.2013)
congratulations, Odinsmama!
I home others in here will be joining you soon!
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text:
John Deere mower blades are calm, cool, cutting machines. American-made using U.S. steel alloy, each blade is manufactured for superiority, engineered for excellence, and designed to stay sharper, longer.
The edge of our blades are rolled to reduce the risk of burrs and sharp corners, which helps extend the blade life and produce a sharper cutting surface.
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Ready to mow? Find the right mower blade for your machine.


text:
Our Favorite Valentine GIFs, From You
For Studio 360's My GIFy Valentine challenge, we're asking you to send us a valentine (in GIF form) for the person, place, or thing of your choosing. It can be joyful or sad, earnest or sardonic, addressed to your sweetheart or your barista or your bearded dragon. Pretty much anything goes, as long as it's shorter than 10 seconds and it loops.
Heben Nigatu and Tracy Clayton, the hosts of BuzzFeed's podcast Another Round, will announce the winning GIF on Studio 360 in time for Valentine's Day.
Send the following information to email@example.com:
- Your GIF file
- Your name (first names are fine!)
- Your city and state
- A little about who the GIF is for and what inspired you to make it
- By sending us your GIF, you acknowledge it can be that it can be uploaded to giphy.com and that it honors their Terms of Service.
- Your GIF may also be posted on our website and used in other Studio 360 platforms.
- The deadline to enter is Monday, February 1 at 11:59pm ET.
Need some help making a GIF? We've put together this handy How To GIF guide.
In the meantime, here's a roundup of some of our favorite entries. Take a look, get inspired, and send us your own GIF!


text:
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I am considering buying a secondhand ferrocement boat since it appears to be more durable and to offer more boat for the money. My principal use for such a vessel would be channel cruising over extended weekends and vacation cruising in the North and Irish Sea. What is your opinion?
Don Casey responds:
I am hesitant to give you a direct response. I have heard that "stone" boats have a wider following in the UK, but ferrocement is not very well respected as a boat-building material in the US. This is probably because all ferrocement boats built here are homebuiltvery often poorly. As a consequence, all ferrocement boats are suspect and suffer from low resale value. My guess is that it wouldn't be hard to find a ferrocement boat in the US for free. The problem is that it costs the same to outfit a stone boat as a glass, metal, or wooden one, but when it comes time to sell, you will be unable to recoup your investment.
None of this, however, may apply in the UK. Still, your comment about "more boat for the money" suggests that ferrocement has less appeal there as well.
If this is a first boat for you, allow me to suggest that you buy something smaller than you seem to be contemplating. Mistakesand you are going to make your shareare nearly always less serious in a two-ton vessel than in one that displaces 20 tons. The lower potential for damage to other boats or for financial disaster will make those early, formative days more relaxed. Your dream lives or dies on those first days, not on whether you bought the "perfect" boat.
Ferrocement, by the way, is not a good material for the size of boat that I am suggesting.
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text:
Evaluation of Efficacy and Safety of an Anti-Allergy Drug With a Contact Lens in Allergic Conjunctivitis
This study has been completed.
Vistakon Pharmaceuticals
Information provided by:
Vistakon Pharmaceuticals
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
First received: February 4, 2007
Last updated: April 8, 2009
Last verified: April 2009
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
The purpose of this study is to evaluate the efficacy and safety of an anti-allergy drug with a contact lens compared to placebo in preventing ocular itching associated with allergic conjunctivitis
|Allergic Conjunctivitis
|Drug: Ketotifen with a Contact Lens (generic name not yet established)
|Phase 3
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Allocation: Randomized
Intervention Model: Parallel Assignment
Masking: Double-Blind
Primary Purpose: Treatment
|Official Title:
|A Multi-Center, Randomized, Double-Masked, Placebo-Controlled Evaluation of the Efficacy and Safety of an Anti-Allergy Drug With a Contact Lens as Compared to Placebo in the Prevention of Allergic Conjunctivitis in a Population of Allergic Contact Lens Wearers
Resource links provided by NLM:
MedlinePlus related topics: Allergy Drug Reactions Eye Wear Pinkeye
Drug Information available for: KetotifenU.S. FDA Resources
Further study details as provided by Vistakon Pharmaceuticals:
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|8 Years and older (Child, Adult, Senior)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
Inclusion Criteria:
- history of ocular allergies and a positive skin test reaction to cat hair, cat dander, grasses, ragweed, and/or trees within the past 24 months; successful soft contact lens wearer who has frequently worn contact lenses for at least one month or more
Exclusion Criteria:
- active ocular infection; clinically significant blepharitis; follicular conjunctivitis; pterygium; narrow angle glaucoma; dry eye syndrome; ocular surgery within past 6 months; pregnancy or lactation
Contacts and Locations
Choosing to participate in a study is an important personal decision. Talk with your doctor and family members or friends about deciding to join a study. To learn more about this study, you or your doctor may contact the study research staff using the Contacts provided below. For general information, see Learn About Clinical Studies.
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00432757
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00432757
|United States, California
|Los Angeles, California, United States
|United States, North Carolina
|Charlotte, North Carolina, United States
|United States, Tennessee
|Memphis, Tennessee, United States
Sponsors and Collaborators
Vistakon Pharmaceuticals
|Study Director:
|Brian Pall, OD, MS, FAAO
|Vistakon Pharmaceuticals
More Information
Keywords provided by Vistakon Pharmaceuticals:
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on June 23, 2017
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT00432757 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|February 4, 2007
|Last Updated:
|April 8, 2009
Keywords provided by Vistakon Pharmaceuticals:
allergic conjunctivitis, ophthalmology, multicenter, controlled
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
Conjunctivitis, Allergic
Drug Hypersensitivity
Conjunctival Diseases
Eye Diseases
Hypersensitivity, Immediate
Immune System Diseases
Drug-Related Side Effects and Adverse Reactions
Chemically-Induced Disorders
Anti-Allergic Agents
Dermatologic Agents
Histamine H1 Antagonists
Histamine Antagonists
Histamine Agents
Neurotransmitter Agents
Molecular Mechanisms of Pharmacological Action
Physiological Effects of Drugs
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on June 23, 2017


text: Well it looks like the Gen has no respect for his CIC. I think we are now seeing the military voicing thier displeasure in the CIC's handling of the war. I guess this is what you get when the libby's elect a inexperienced bafoon to the WH. What a joke. Don't ever remember any other pres being ripped by his generals for being an idiot.


text:
Jigsaw Puzzle Glue
You've worked very hard, perhaps for hours, days, maybe even weeks to find every little piece...and with the last distinctive snap of a jigsaw puzzle piece settling into place, you've completed your masterpiece. As you sit back and admire your work, you wonder, "now what?" After all of that effort, you may not want to rip it back apart, and you don't have to. Using jigsaw puzzle glue, you can preserve your work indefinitely.
To use the glue, you'll need to first slide something under your completed puzzle, such as a large piece of cardboard. Even better, if you know in advance that you wish to glue your puzzle, simply lay the cardboard down first and build the puzzle over it. Next, read and follow the directions on your bottle of jigsaw puzzle glue. Each brand could differ slightly, but generally, you'll want to apply a liberal amount of glue to the entire face of the puzzle, even overlapping the edges a bit. Allow to dry thoroughly (usually at least 2 hours, but overnight is better). Then carefully flip your puzzle over and repeat the process on the back.
Puzzle Warehouse offers several brands of puzzle glue for under $5. Made by the puzzle makers you trust, you can count on the quality of each brand.


text:
Dec 27, 2013 - By Bruce Tippets, Sports EditorETHETE -- In a battle of two Fremont County boys basketball teams searching for a much-needed victory, the Wind River Cougars delivered Friday morning in an 87-65 victory over the St. Stephen's Eagles at Wyoming Indian High School.
The contest started the Fremont County Shootout in Ethete. The win lifted the Cougars to 3-6 on the season. St. Stephen's fell to 1-5 on the year.
"The game was pretty early," Wind River coach Scott Groenke said. "It was tough to kind of get a roll going.
"I thought that we finished better than what we started. It was tough for Wind River to play early in the morning. It was tough for St. Stephen's."
Wind River and the St. Stephen's Eagles played the Riverton sophomores Friday night to continue the tournament.
"Any win is a big win for us," Groenke said. "We have a lot of young guys. It's just learning how to win. St. Stephen's made a nice push in the third quarter.
"They started to come back on us. We kind of kept that under control."
The semifinal games will be played Saturday afternoon with the championship game Saturday night.
The title game for the boys is scheduled for 8:30 p.m. The girls play at 7 p.m.
"The biggest thing for us is to play defense and rebound,," Groenke said.
WRHS 87, St. Stephen's 65
The Eagles didn't let the early wake-up call Friday morning bother them in the opening minutes.
Behind the early shooting of Johnnie Whiteman, St. Stephen's was only down 15-13 in the first quarter, Whiteman had two 3-pointers in the period.
Wind River settled down in the second by going inside the paint against the smaller Eagles and building a 38-26 lead.
In the third quarter, the Eagles trimmed the lead to 52-46 on a field goal from Lakota Oldman with less then four minutes left in the period, but Wind River quickly built the lead back up to 54-46 and made it a 56-46 cushion on a field goal from Caleb C'Bearing.
Wind River kept the momentum, taking a 62-48 cushion into the final period of play.
The tempo didn't slow down for the Cougars in the final eight minutes. WRHS was up 66-48 with seven minutes left on the clock.
St. Stephen's took a timeout at the 6:41 mark when the scoreboard read 68-49. Whiteman hit his fourth 3-pointer of the game for a quick highlight for the Eagles, but Wind River was in command at 72-52.
In the final minutes of play, both the coaches had the opportunity to play their reserves in the varsity game.
Wind River 87
St. Stephen's 65
Wind River -- Celeb C' Bearing 6 (2) 0-0 18, Bryce Hankins 3 2-3 7, Delshai Roanhorse 5 0-0 10, Dakota Snyder 1 (2) 0-0 8, Cory Cress 0 5-7 5, Taylor Tidzump 2 2-2 6, LukeTidzump 7 0-0 14.
St. Stephen's -- Johnny Whiteman (4) 0-0 12, Fighting bear 2 (1) 0-0 7, Derek Arthur 5 0-0 10
Get your copy of The Ranger online, every day! If you are a current print subscriber and want to also access dailyranger.com online (there is nothing more to purchase) including being able to download The Mining and Energy Edition, click here. Looking to start a new online subscription to dailyranger.com (even if it is for just one day)? Access our secure SSL encrypted server and start your subscription now by clicking here.


text:
The February 2013 Glam Bag is set to make you Red Carpet Ready! With Awards Season in full swing, these are definitely must haves even if you just plan on sitting and watching the show from the comfort of your home.
What you see above is a shiny black makeup bag (that holds fingerprints like no other). The card is basically there to give you the run down of what is in your bag and the discounts you can get by visiting the Glam Room on ipsy.com.
What's inside?
The first item is the Lash Card Individually Wrapped Mascara Shields. I hate getting mascara on my freshly applied eye makeup just as much as the next person… but these seriously are more of a pain in the butt to hold while you're applying mascara than it is to clean up a small mascara dot from the wand.
The second item is the Smokey Lash Kapow Mascara from POP Beauty. I really liked how this mascara lengthened and slightly curled my lashes.
The third item is the Pixi Flawless & Poreless Face Primer. This product is very slightly tinted & did well as a base for my makeup. My look also held up well throughout the day. My only con with this is the scent is sort of plasticy.
The fourth item is the Gel Eyeliner from MicaBeauty. This is a brand I've never heard of but the liner was really great in terms of application and pigment. The formula was easy to glide on and took minimal effort.
The fifth item is a Coastal Scents Shadow Palette sample. I was really excited for this item because I've always heard a lot about Coastal Scents and how great their shadows are. I definitely was not disappointed. It was a joy to apply the shadows as they went on smoothly and with great pigment. They were easy to blend and smoke out. The set I received is Glitz & Glamour and includes the shades Candlelight, Gunmetal, Incognito and Ashen.
(L-R: The Coastal Scents Shadow Palette, Pixi Primer, Mica Beauty Gel Eyeliner)
Below is an eye look using the quad, mascara and liner. I'm pretty in love, which is fitting since it IS Valentine's Day 😉
All in all, I'm extremely happy with this months bag and it's a total win! I'm definitely in for March!
Ipsy does profile pages now, so here is mine. There isn't anything there, but I think it's fun that it's offered. Hopefully they'll also go by way of Birchbox and GlossyBox and have a referral program set up or a point system in place for free products. After seeing how awesome this bag was, that is really the only thing holding them back.
Here is where you can go to subscribe to ipsy for a Glam Bag. It's not a referral.
What do you think about the February Glam Bag? Are you going to subscribe for March? I know I'm looking forward to my next bag!


text:
Online Payday Loans Direct Lenders Only
Online Payday Loans Direct Lenders Only offer those less than cash the way to cover necessary expenses and emergency outlays in times of financial distress. They should only be entered into; however, if the borrower possesses plenty of knowledge regarding their specific terms. Use the tips in the following paragraphs, and you'll know whether you've got a good deal before you, or if you're going to fall into a risky trap.
Online Payday Loans Direct Lenders Only won't be taken in excess. Don't run around town and remove a dozen Online Payday Loans Direct Lenders Only in the fast. You may find yourself can not repay the loans, irrespective of your income.
Research various payday loan companies before purchasing one. There are many different companies on the market. Some of which can charge you serious premiums, and charges compared to other alternatives. In fact, some might have short term specials, that basically make a difference inside total cost. Do your diligence, and make sure you are getting the best selection possible.
Make sure you borrow merely the bare minimum when obtaining Online Payday Loans Direct Lenders Only. Many people have emergencies come up and need more money, nevertheless the interest rate with a payday loan is a lot higher than what you should pay to your bank or plastic card company. Keep the costs of your respective loan lower by only borrowing things you need, and make up with your repayments,
If you do not know much about a payday loan but you are in desperate demand for one, you might like to consult with a loan expert. This could be also a friend, co-worker, or member of the family. You want to make sure you are not getting scammed, and you know what you will get into.
Sometimes we can all work with a little help financially. If you find yourself which has a financial problem, and also you don't know best places to turn, you can obtain a payday loan. A payday loan is a short-term loan that you can receive quickly. There is a bit more involved, and the tips will assist you to understand further with what these loans are about.
Payday loan companies work around the laws to ask you for the highest amount. These loans cost a certain quantity (say $15 per $100 lent), which are just interest disguised as fees. As a result, financing can accrue around ten times a persons vision rate of a standard loan.
Beware of falling right into a trap with payday cash advances. In theory, you'd probably pay the loan back one to two weeks, then move ahead with your life. In reality, however, lots of people cannot afford to repay the loan, and the balance keeps allowing this to continue to their next paycheck, accumulating huge amounts of interest over the process. In this case, a lot of people get into the position where they can never afford to settle the loan.
Be aware of the deceiving rates you might be presented. It may seem to be affordable and acceptable to be charged 15 dollars for each one-hundred you borrow, nevertheless it will quickly mount up. The rates will translate being about 390 percent with the amount borrowed. Know exactly simply how much you will be required to pay in fees and interest at the start.
If you are considering finding a payday loan, make certain you have a intend to get it paid off right away. The loan company will offer to "help you" and extend your loan, folks who wants pay it off straight away. This extension costs that you simply fee, plus additional interest, so that it does nothing positive in your case. However, it earns the loan company a pleasant profit.


text:
This minimalist thriller offers the same endurance-test nightmare as Open Water, only here the imperilled characters are marooned on a mountain, and wolves substitute for the sharks.
Dan (Kevin Zegers), his best friend Joe (Shawn Ashmore) and his girlfriend Parker (Emma Bell) have sneaked on to the last ride on the ski-run when they realise the lights have gone out, the mountain is closed for the week and they're dangling a hundred feet off the ground with a storm coming in. Adam Green generates a morbid tension from what might literally be called a suspense story: the panic that grips each of the trio is palpable. You may wonder at the implausibility of none of them having a mobile phone, but as the hours go by and Will Barratt's eerie cinematography isolates them, the mounting terror of their predicament begins to twang the nerves. And frostbite has seldom looked more horrifying.Reuse content


text:
Selected Community Events
Go Back
http://www.kbtx.com/content/events/203474961.html | 203474961
Beyond Comfort Studio Art Quilt Exhibition
Event Dates and Times
5/23/2013 - 8/18/2013
Stark Galleries, 1st Floor of the MSC
"This exhibition features themes ranging from political protest, domestic violence, and religious persecution to the devastation of environmental disasters and modern warfare. Challenging fiber materials include LED lights, found objects, precious metals and even recycled CDs. Beyond Comfort reflects each participant's personal journey to explore new ideas and push their creative abilities by making new exceptional works of fiber art."
Lynn McDaniel
Go Back


text:
Download Task Force, the latest project from Lil B, released on Monday, July 23rd, 2012. Lil B's chances in this game are improving with each new release, and Task Force is no exception - quite the opposite, in fact. It's a nice addition to the impressive catalogue Lil B has been building over the years. We're definitely anticipating the next move.
What do y'all think of this mixtape?
Visit our mixtape section to stream and/or download Obama BasedGod, a project released by Lil B on Monday, July 30th, 2012. It features songs such as Stick, Task Force, Dig Deep.
If you dig this, visit Lil B's profile for the latest info, news, songs, and mixtapes. Check out Lil B's Facebook and Twitter.
01. Stick
02. Task Force
03. Dig Deep
04. Thuggin Till Death
05. Spontaneous Combustion
06. Fuck Me
07. Im The Police
08. Sand
09. Like A Gun
10. Total Recall
11. Task Force Platoon 6
12. Myself
13. Hell On Earth
14. I Got Beef
15. Reporting For Duty
16. Gran Dad Lil B
17. Choclate Girl
18. Ryan Seacrest
19. No Tolerance


text:
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text:
What sorts of problems has your Focus experienced?
View Single Post
Focus Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2011
Fan#: 85246
Location: Richmond Hill, GA
What I Drive: 2001 Focus ZTS
Posts: 12
FF Reputation:
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (
Bought my baby girl her first car last weekend. It's a 2001 ZTS with 131,000. Paid $2500 for it. So far, so good. Known issues when I got it: Some oil leakage - probably a valve cover gasket job. Exhaust is a little loud - I think there may be a hole in the exhaust manifold somewhere. Also smelling exhaust. Doesn't smoke out of the pipe, though. All the alloy wheels were pretty grimey. Wouldn't clean off with soap and water, so used a metal polish and a soapy brillow pad. Cleaned up WAY nice. Antenna functional, but the lower part of the antenna just above the mount was brittle. Replaced with a short whip. Brakes feel a little different than my other cars. I noticed that the drums were very rusty on the outside - no biggie, if the inside is fine. Also the wear on the front discs seemed variable. A/C didn't work. Gave it a $34 R-134a job. Seems to be fine now - hasn't seemed to lose pressure yet. Rear pax window regulator cable was shredded beyond belief. Replacement comes in today.
All in all, I probably spent the majority of "extra" cash on cleansers and stuff. Otherwise, $58 for the power window regulator with motor, $7 for a whip antenna, and $34 for refridgerant. Also gonna replace valve cover gasket for $40. Considering spending maybe $100 for new drums, but that's on the table for later. May convert to discs, but it brakes well enough now.
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text:
Originally Posted by ChaosTheory
I love the concept of Paladins and always play borderline LG anyway, so it fits my typical RPG preference. I just don't like how, in most RPG games, they're nerfed in combat in favor of nearly useless buffs. They should be more than a support class/off tank.


text:
[nggallery id=coachella_wkend_2_day_2]
If Friday at Coachella was for the Queens of Rock, those who meandered to the main stages on Saturday realized soon that this was the day for the Kings of Electronic. Galantis played their second show ever. That's right—the two weekends of Coachella where they played the prime 9:35pm spot at the Gobi tent, were Christian Karlsson (of Miike Snow) and Linus Eklow's first shows together, ever. And while it may have been partially due to all the free cat masks they handed out before the show, the audience loved them. Fatboy Slim amazed his audience by making it snow on them right when the festival's roaming astronaut installation (Escape Velocity by Poetic Kinetics) entered the Sahara tent. Empire Of The Sun shredded as their dancers portrayed everything from unicorns to robot bird women, and Usher could be seen rocking out to the beginning of the band's set before he rushed off to make a special guest appearance during Pharrell's set.
There was no shortage of rock tunes though, with newbies and vets like Drowners, Future Islands, the Dismemberment Plan, Holy Ghost! and more standing their ground with the laptoppers and the massive poppers like Lorde and Pet Shop Boys.
While Solange didn't have Beyonce in tow, Saturday still brought out the all-stars. Nas was joined by Damian Marley to sing Marley's Welcome To Jamrock and Road To Zion, and was also joined by Lauryn Hill for If I Ruled The World and a cover of the Fugees' Ready Or Not. Pharrell brought out some guests: Jay-Z, Jabawockies, Clipse and T.I. Pusha T also showed up during the afternoon for a surprise set at the Heineken House tent. The best surprise of the day though, came when HAIM performed with Kid Cudi.
For those that might have been upset there was no sushi and fewer vegetarian options for weekend two of Coachella, keep in mind that the craft beer tent was still hopping and bands' sets were tighter, with CHVRCHES frontwoman Lauren Mayberry even announcing during their set that weekend one was just "a rehearsal."
Photos by Annie Lesser.
[nggallery id=coachella_wkend_2_day_2]


text:
Mr Jean Baptiste Van Impe
Mr Jean Baptist Van Impe, 36, from Bergstraat, Kerksken Belgium boarded the Titanic at Southampton with his wife Rosalie and daughter Catharina. They travelled as third class passengers (ticket number 345773, £24, 3s)
Their actions aboard the Titanic are a mystery. All three were lost and no trace of them was ever found.
Michael A. Findlay, USA
Georges Picavet, Belgium
Kassandra Picavet, Belgium
Homer Thiel, USA
Michael Findlay Revised Passenger List in Judith Geller (1998) Titanic: Women and Children First. Patrick Stephens Ltd
Walter Lord (1976) A Night to Remember. London, Penguin. ISBN 0 14 004757 3
Contract Ticket List, White Star Line 1912 (National Archives, New York; NRAN-21-SDNYCIVCAS-55[279])
Herman De Wulf and Michael A. Findlay (1998) The Belgians and the Titanic. Voyage. #27
Articles and Stories
New York Times (1913)
Link and cite this biography
(2017) Jean Baptiste Van Impe Encyclopedia Titanica (ref: #1279, accessed 24th June 2017 07:05:59 PM)
URL : https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/jean-baptiste-van-impe.html
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The English Wiktionary has a dictionary definition (meanings of a word) for: loitering
Loitering means to stand around without doing anything. It can also mean to stop many times, or to wait and procrastinate.
This activity is mainly done by young people, such as teenagers.


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