text:
I'm having a brain fart at the moment. Anyone care to explain to a noob what kind of implications this could have?
it would turn every trader into a day trader.
of course the majority already are.
I'm not stock monkey either, but I think this has to do with freedom of information. Specifically that once Morgan Stanley publishes their stock upgrades and downgrades, it's pretty much public information. That fact that this information has been barred is the item of interest.
From the Morgan/Stanley side, it might be appropriate to call it a trade secret. From the end user side, it becomes common knowledge so unless there are agreements with each user not to leak the knowledge, it seems like this law is i
Specifically that once Morgan Stanley publishes their stock upgrades and downgrades, it's pretty much public information.
That's not what was happening. Theflyonthewall.com was publishing information before it was made available, so that their subscribers could benefit from it before the clients of Morgan-Stanley et al.
And as we all know, its wrong to have insider information... unless you are a high roller.
The judiciary can't have it both ways when the Supreme Court is promoting an extreme interpretation of the First Amendment (i.e. unlimited corporate donations to political campaigns are OK).
Either the court system recognizes justifiable mitigation of an enumerated Right in order to prevent other Rights from being undermined by it, or they don't. What we heard from SCOTUS in 'Citizens United' was that free speech is absolute, so no more controls on obscenity, defamation, incitement, threats, etc.
The judiciary can't have it both ways when the Supreme Court is promoting an extreme interpretation of the First Amendment (i.e. unlimited corporate donations to political campaigns are OK).
Sure they can. They're judges, and they don't always look at the big picture. The only possibility of making them eat some crow is an appeal.
It appears that theyflyonthewall.com can appeal after one year. Apparently the judge saw the fact that the bar was basically making up for lack of security on the financial institutions part.
From TFA: "The judge said Theflyonthewall.com may apply in one year to lift the injunction if the banks do not take reasonable steps to halt the unauthorized distribution of research."
So the judge knows the actual barring is baseless, but is doing it to protect these rich banks and their advantages for long enough for them to fix their leaks.
I thought judges were here to uphold laws, not temporally wipe their ass with the 1st amendment in favor of big banks.
There was a case, something like "WWW Communications v. INS," where WWW and INS were both news organizations/aggregators in World War I. One was basically scraping the others' content, reading its headlines on the east coast and selling them on the west coast the same day that the information came out. The Court said that the scrapers were "attempting to reap what they did not sow," I think, creating a sort of prepossessory property interest in the information.
The idea is that if a domain scraper can copy all news content on the web, take away the advertisements, and not pay anyone for it, then there won't be an incentive for people to go to the effort to gather the news in the first place. It was obviously more legitimate in the pre-digital age, and doubly so during a world war, when it was MASSIVELY difficult to assemble transcontinental news on a daily basis, but the point still stands to some degree.
Not really like Google News because Google only crawls headlines that are published on public web sites, obeys robots.txt, only crawls subscription only sites with permission etc.
The critical element here seems to be that the stuff was being reported before all the paying clients saw it. It is more as though Google bought subscriptions as an ordinary user and used those login details to spider a site behind a pay wall.
Well someone had time to act on it
Analyst reports are mostly pump and dump schemes to begin with of course, this is just a little meta pump and dump scheme on top.
The short answer is money.
The long answer is that traders start at 7am by reading reports and recomendations.
They traders make decisions about what they will trade and what position they will take early on based on this information.
They will pay a LOT of money to money to get this information as early as possible.
The information providers want to be able to sell this valuable data and analysis.
This won't affect day traders so much, who try to squeeze trades in between the various peaks and troughs in prices
The whole point of having a stock market is to get money to the people who can make the best use of it. What this ruling does, as far as I can tell, is impede that process by preventing the dissemination of useful information about who can make the best use of investment capital. In short, while this might or might not be a good ruling from the standpoint of enforcing the law as it exists today, it runs completely counter to the whole point of having a stock market. There should be absolutely no impediment to disseminating as widely as possible information about publicly traded stocks unless it is for an exceptionally good reason (like national security level good).
Going even further, by restricting information like this they are essentially allowing the major players in the stock market to manipulate stock prices. I tell my clients that I will claim stock X will go up and the market listens to me. I do this in such a way that my clients can by their stocks first. Stock goes up because I say it will and I'm a major player. Then my clients sell their stock making a nice tidy profit, all the while I have less incentive to provide good advice because assuming I'm even vaguely plausible this scheme will work. The law is protecting this kind of thing when it should be prohibiting it!
What this ruling does, as far as I can tell, is impede that process by preventing the dissemination of useful information about who can make the best use of investment capital.
It's not information (in the sense of facts), it's opinion and analysis. Opinion and analysis that the bank has paid money to have performed. It seems perfectly reasonable therefore for them to restrict access to it.
Typical crapdot summary. It has nothing to do with "publication of news" at all.
I have no problem with them restricting access to the information. If they do nothing which requires them to make the information public then they can keep it to themselves (and their clients who agree to sign a contract not to disclose the information).
The problem is they want to in effect manipulate the market by keeping the information secret initially, do their trading (or allow their clients to do their trading), then release the information which pumps up the stocks they just bought.
The "criminal" sites move to offshore hosts. Business as usual by Monday. A couple weeks at the latest if they're totally incompetent.
I'm having a brain fart at the moment. Anyone care to explain to a noob what kind of implications this could have?
It means the first amendment doesn't matter when rich people want to maintain an advantage.
This time frame preserves incentives for the firms to create and disseminate research reports to their investor clients, while still recognizing the inevitable, fast-moving, and widespread informal communication of recommendation on Wall Street.
Obviously these reports will affect prices, so you tell clients, wait a bit so they can react, and then tell the public. That's market manipulation plain and simple. A more fair ruling would say they have to release the reports publicly at the same time they tell their clients. But then this is a Manhattan federal judge who knows who he works for
This is not a case of insider trading, it is aggregation and analysis of publicly available information being used to facilitate smarter trading amongst their clients. Most of those clients are long-term investors, and insider information is almost exclusively used for short-term gains. While there may be overlap in legal and illegal activity among firms and clients, there isn't really a case to be made that this is an example of that sort of thing.
Yes, there is a lot of scummy behavior on Wall Street. It helps to not be confused as to what terms like "insider trading" actually mean when discussing it though, because it detracts from actual meaningful discussion.
The whole purpose of the stock market is to get money to the people who can make the best use of it. That is best served by having as much information available as rapidly as possible. How exactly does this ruling go anywhere near achieving this?
I'm glad you agree information is good for the market in general. If the court ruled against those who produce research for money, a large source of market information analysis would disappear.
While I doubt your post was intended to agree with me, it nonetheless supports the contention that the court ruled correctly in protecting firms who spend time and money to analyze publicly available data and making it available to the public shortly after making it available to those who actually pay to have it produ
If they want to keep this information private then they can do so. Just don't tell anyone it, or only tell people with whom them have agreements not to disclose the information. If they also conduct no trades based on the information then no one will know it.
If they wish to keep the information secret they have a simple solution, do nothing with it which would require making the information public. Which is better, having less information available due to a reduction in 'research' of the market or enabling
Figuring out something nobody else realized does not equal market manipulation in any but the most twisted definitions, so you've provided a false "choice" of less information vs manipulation.
The ruling was about preventing business competitors from publishing data that was leaked in violation of privacy agreements, one of the "solutions" you provided in the second sentence above. You offer a solution and then oppose a ruling that upholds the legality of the solution. Inconsistent much?
You assume that I propose sanctioning the person or organisation who were provided with the information (the innocent third party). If someone publishing aggregated stock tips did nothing illicit while obtaining the information then it is not them who should be prosecuted but rather whoever is responsible for leaking the information to them (almost certainly one of these tipsters clients or someone within the tipsters organisation).
It isn't the "figuring out something nobody else realised" that I'm calling
It's the creating stock tips, telling your clients the information then trying to keep the information you have given your clients secret by going after people who have done nothing wrong. It's the way they are publishing their results and the way in which they try to keep tha information secret that bothers me.
Did you read the same article I did? The ruling doesn't keep the information secret after distribution to research firms' clients. It prevents third party publication until after the firms have had a
They are not violating any confidentiality agreements themselves, ergo they have (as far as I'm concerned) done nothing wrong. If you want to go after the people who violated the confidentiality agreement be my guest. When it comes to the distribution of information, especially information about the stock market, we have the err on the side of caution and where ever possible allow the information to spread.
The key difference is that your opinion on industrial espionage being okay is irrelevant to legal proceedings, as it is typically illegal to engage in industrial espionage the US. So, while you may not agree that it should be illegal, the judge was still correct to rule on the side of how the law is written rather than how certain people believe the law should be written.
By all means, try to get things changed so that nobody can be punished for soliciting theft of secret information and then selling it. Unt
At no point did I claim that the judge made the wrong decision in interpreting the law. I'm miles away from being able to comment on that intelligently. I'm arguing for what I think the law should be and the reality it should reflect. I have no idea where you got the impression that I felt the judge made the wrong call from a legal standpoint since in another comment further up the page (not one replying to you) I specifically state that the judge may well have correctly interpreted the law.
My apologies for misinterpreting. I was limiting my comments to the merits of the ruling, not what is preferable in a better world.
I think you mean "those who are caught using insider information are almost exclusively those who use it for short-term gains." They are a lot easier to spot.
Inside information by its very nature isn't doesn't support long-term gains, whether a person is caught or not. It is information that needs to be acted on within a short time frame and requires the liquidation of the position after the publication of the information which causes the price swing. I can't think of a single instance where inside information would be useful in a long term stock position, but that's not to say they don't exist. I'd be interested to hear a theory on the long-term use of inside i
Sorry to interrupt your enraged rant, but this isn't insider trading.
If the information in question was unpublished factual knowledge (i.e owning an iPad causes/cures AIDS) then it would be.
However it isn't, as would be obvious from reading TFA. These are tips (i.e. our boffins think that because of [econobabble here] Apple is a good buy).
Why should they have to release information to the non-paying public at the same time they release it to their paying clients? That would be like Macafee making a anti-virus update available to everyone in the world at the same time they made it available to their subscribers. That's just asinine.
It's not a trade secret when you share ratings with your clients several hours before you release information to the public.
Man, you should really read what you post.
The public has absolutely no right to receive a report requested and paid for by a private entity before that private entity receives the report themselves. This is especially true if that report will eventually be made public and is potentially damaging to said entity. It's like going to a car repair shop and asking for a quote, but instead of handing you a quote they go and post your quote in the newspaper and then hand you the quote. In the mean time 20 people
Remember when that Hulk film from 2003 blamed the internet and texting for ruining opening it's weekend?
Will movie studios now ask for opening weekend injunctions on news sites too from reporting on plot/story and whether it sucks or not, before most theater-goers had a chance to watch it?
I mean, while we limit freedom of press for business concerns, we might as well see what other industries would like.
Theflyonthewall.com just moves it's servers & business outside the US. I hear Antigua might be a good choice, since they've already gotten a WTO judgment against the US and so wouldn't be quick to cooperate with the US to take down the site.
It looks like the US government is determined to drive businesses, particularly internet-based or -dependent businesses, to other countries. Then they whine about trade imbalances and people wonder why business is fleeing the US.
Our lawmakers keep pandering to the big businesses/corporations/oligopolies that paid for their elections; driving the smaller businesses overseas because they can't compete when the laws are being written against them.
Recently in california a law was being promoted (for good reason) that would bar lawmakers from directly receiving SMS from lobbyists while actually voting on laws. Now I never would have assumed the connection to be so direct as this, but at least now I know what We The People are fighting
Theflyonthewall.com just moves it's servers & business outside the US. I hear Antigua might be a good choice, since they've already gotten a WTO judgment against the US and so wouldn't be quick to cooperate with the US to take down the site.
It looks like the US government is determined to drive businesses, particularly internet-based or -dependent businesses, to other countries. Then they whine about trade imbalances and people wonder why business is fleeing the US.
I'm not exactly boo-hooing over any movement of this website to a different country. A country shouldn't kowtow to businesses to keep them in-country. They should do what's right in the eyes of the people it represents. Or, at least that's what an idealist would say.
The value of stock information, AFAIR, have always been based on time. I can get all sorts of information delayed some minimum amount of time, but I have to pay to get near real time information. If I try to republish this information, I get sued. This has been the case forever. The powers that be are going to do everything they can to keep this status quo becau
Let's be clear on this, the issue has nothing to do with having up-to-the-second stocks news or not. It has nothing to do with an RSS aggregator having a feed from a news site.
It is about a news aggregator publicly disseminating PRIVATE information - buy/sell is professional advice and not news. Professional advice is subject to a two-party contract - it can be given confidentially. This is leaked advice.
Usually leaks aren't much of a problem because there's copyright and so on, they can't just reproduce the detail necessary to completely steal your advice usefully. But, in this case all that's really interesting is the company name and whether the word after it is "buy" or "sell". The entirety of the substance can be in the article. Contrast this with say the problem with the leak being that it is embarrassing - here the "news" is not the substance of the advice as advice, it is the fact that it is embarrassing.
Secondly, absolutely key to the value of that information is extreme timeliness. It only has value if you have that information before most other people, after which point the information becomes obsolete. Thirdly, the person giving the advice is also of high importance. "Sell Microsoft" has a greatly different value as information when Merrill Lynch says it than say, Bob down the pub. So people were paying thefly to get Merrill Lynch's advice more cheaply than buying it from Merrill Lynch.
The point the judge upheld is that thefly were not announcing news, they were reproducing a private professional opinion - and an opinion that was of value because of whose it was. Nobody wanted this as some retrospective news about some event, they wanted to know this information for the exact same reason and no other reason than those for which Merril Lynch's clients were paying for it.
This is little different than say, someone finding out the Coke formula, setting up a factory and marketing it as Coca Cola. The one difference is that in this case the product is "knowledge". The judge seems to have been quite savvy in differentiating the "product" and "knowledge" elements on the basis of the extent that timeliness was important.
It is about a news aggregator publicly disseminating PRIVATE information - buy/sell is professional advice and not news.
Errrm... but...
If only we could set up a system where intelligent, educated individuals with knowledge in both the subject at hand and the law in general could sit down and, after careful deliberation and hearing the advice of people on both sides of each issue, come to some sort of a rational decision intended to balance between competing interests.
Perhaps we could give these individuals a fancy title, like arbiter, or decider... I don't know, something classy and prestigious to go with their important and honorable function. We should name the places and circumstances under which they operate something special, too, something that inspires respect and tradition... maybe forums? Also, we should have a bunch of levels of it, so that we can mitigate the effect any one bad decision or individual has, then let people make some sort of dispute if things aren't decided their way and they feel something wasn't appropriately dealt with.
Anyway, it could be a really cool system. Somebody should write up a document, and we could vote on whether or not to make that the highest law of the land.
It ends... at the boundary where wealthy patrons can still use the information to easily maintain their comparative wealth. When it ceases to be a timely and valuable vehicle for Wall St. bankers and Fortune 500 CEOs to pull the wool over our eyes, then 'advice' becomes 'news' because the players have already made their move.
Well either you didn't read beyond paragraph 2 or you simply didn't comprehend what I meant by "Contrast this with say the problem with the leak being that it is embarrassing - here the 'news' is not the substance of the advice as advice, it is the fact that it is embarrassing."
Perhaps I was unclear so I will attempt to demonstrate further using your scenarios:
If I'm a CEO and my lawyer tells me to put the money I've embezzled in the Cayman Islands and the Wall Street Journal finds out about it, that's prof
But the justification for markets is that they optimize everybody's preferences, and here this fails (by only optimizing the preferences of a small number of players). Thus privileged information always leads to suboptimal outcomes
1. There are a couple of dudes, who just make up the latest "trends".
2. Which of course is where they have their money in.
3. Now the dumb people who listen to them buy those s(t)ocks.
4. And the prophecy fulfills itself. (Yep, that's the "..." point in all those plans.)
Of course in stocks, after it starts to rise because of the dumb people, the more intelligent got a real reason to invest, and so it goes even higher. In fashion on the other hand people do it because they are such losers that they think they would be left out and not accepted otherwise.
So it's all rigged. But if you know a bit of social engineering, and are really full of yourself, you can be a rigger too.
My motto: I don't follow trends. I MAKE them. (And so should you.
Sure. The "couple of dudes" thing happens. But you're giving the impression that this is how the overall market works. "There's a small number of people driving the whole thing". "It's all rigged".
No. For the most part, it's "rigged" by an amazing feedback system of entity-less market forces.
These "couple of dudes" you speak of.. they might make out well, but, they hardly make a bump in the grand scheme. And most of these people fail.
And the ones who succeed... I'd love to think that they are ruining th
Hmm... don't they call them "market makers" for a reason?
My motto: I don't follow trends. I MAKE them. (And so should you.
Pump and dump??? I'm just sayin...
I was talking about trends in general. Fashion, humor, software...
But yes: I am saying that 100% (yes, one-hundred percent) of the stock market trends, are created trough pump-and-dump-like schemes.
Doesn't matter if it's illegal.
I wouldn't say 100%. It really depends on if your a long term investor, or short term trader. Sure, the stock market has always been about buying low and selling high. But, it's bench-marked against the profitability of a corporation. In my case, I've got investments tied up in my IRA (for retirement) because the company I work for is is too cheap to offer a 401K.
In fashion on the other hand people do it because they are such losers that they think they would be left out and not accepted otherwise.
Newsflash: For the past 20 years it has been extremely unfashionable (unaccepted) to be poor or even just lower-middle class in our society. Finance may be more closely related to fashion than you say it is, except with fashion the barrier to starting ones own trends (using textiles, thread and dyes) is often much lower.
What does poorness have to do with fake fashion "trends"?
Perhaps you really think there is no other way than either run around looking like crap or following those fake "trends".
Which means that you completely missed my point.
As I said: Start the trends yourself!
I made all my friends use Firefox, and wanting to use Linux, because I used it and showed them. It was so impressive, and I was so secure in my reality, that they saw it too. Hell, my desktop is so good looking that girls ask
> The current (well-supported) suspicion of banks and stock traders gives the whole article a sinister patina, e.g. "the banks were keeping upgrades and downgrades secret, but theflyonthewall was exposing the information before the brandy-and-cigars set could fully exploit it!"
So we want the public to be well-informed, but not too well informed? This will let the investment bankers keep their dirty little secrets secret for just a bit longer while they offload stock. The public won't know until the stock
Now look at our courts. Freedom of information is real good but only when it is stale and less useful! Our darling government in its infinite wisdom now decides that its feeble minded citizens must not know any information that might cause excitement or rapid action. Or is this supposedly done to help the banks, so dear to us all, for their recent sensitivities.
Because while theoretically out of US jurisdiction, you can still be sentenced in the US, brought in through extradiction procedures and imprisoned in US for crimes which were not crimes where you committed them.
Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.


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Writer Rick Edgerton talks #MHFBeanie Round, the harrowing statistics behind Brain Cancer - and what...
3 hours ago
Queensland forward Nate Myles has pleaded guilty to a grade one dangerous throw on NSW rookie Brett White in tonight's 25-18 State of Origin win at Suncorp Stadium and has been banned for two games.
Myles lifted White in an ugly spear tackle in the 10th minute and can consider himself lucky to get away with a grade one charge. He will miss the Sydney Roosters' next two NRL games, but will be available for Game II of the Origin series at Telstra Stadium on June 13.
Bizarrely, tonight was Myles' first top-line game since a three-game suspension earlier in the season and he hasn't played for his club since April.
Meanwhile, Tonie Carroll has escaped charges from last night. The match review committee looked at two separate high tackles by Carroll in the first half, on New South Wales prop Brett White and centre Matt Cooper, but found he had no case to answer.
Queensland coach Mal Meninga has praised his old warhorses Steven Price and Petero Civoniceva for sparking tonight's come-from-behind 25-18 State of Origin series opening win over NSW at Suncorp Stadium.
Price scored one try and was simply outstanding while Civoniceva tirelessly carried the ball forward as Queensland overcame an 18-6 halftime deficit to claim a four tries to three victory. Halfback Johnathan Thurston was named official man of the match by the Australian selectors.
Queensland rookie prop Antonio Kaufusi is expected to miss the rest of the season after snapping the patella tendon in his right knee early in the second half tonight. NSW rookie Kurt Gidley has been sent to hospital after dislocating his right shoulder while fellow debutant Brett White finished the game with a busted nose.
Willie Mason suffered a right hamstring strain and must be in some doubt to play again on Friday in the Bulldogs NRL clash with North Queensland at Suncorp Stadium.

subset: commoncrawl


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Baked White Fish with Lime Butter Breading Recipe
1 lb filet white fish (haddock, flounder, cod, whiting)
1/2 cup Italian flavored bread crumbs
1 teaspoon each garlic powder, chili powder, black pepper
pinch of cayenne pepper
1/4 cup grating cheese
2 beaten egg whites
1 freshly squeezed lime
2 tablespoons butter
2 tablespoons olive oil
parchment paper
cookie sheet
Beat the egg white in another pie plate with 3 tablespoons of water then dip the filet in egg whites then bread crumbs and lay it down into the buttered cookie sheet. Sprinkle the top of the fish with remaining bread crumbs. Drizzle with olive oil. Put the juice of lime lime around it into the butter on the cookie sheeet. Bake on 400 degree hot oven till browned and fish flakes easily around 25 minutes.
11 comments
- Federica said...
it looks very appetizing with the crispy crust :) Bye, have a great we
- September 28, 2012 at 12:31 AM
- Always Unlucky said...
Looking so beautiful and Yummy I wanna try to make this at home with my sis From Crazzy trends
- September 28, 2012 at 6:33 AM
- Fuat Gencal said...
Çok güzel,çok leziz ve iştah açıcı görünüyor. Ellerinize, emeğinize sağlık.
- September 28, 2012 at 7:30 AM
- bellini said...
I love that it is baked in the oven as well.
- September 28, 2012 at 9:41 AM
- Angie's Recipes said...
Looks very tasty with crisp crust.
- September 28, 2012 at 10:03 AM
- Ruth Martins said...
That sounds delicious. Bet the fish was nice and moist too!
- September 28, 2012 at 10:27 AM
- Belinda said...
Lime butter - hmm, great flavor! Subtle and wonderful.
- September 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM
- Free Spirit Eater said...
Mmm, love fish! Great flavors!
- September 28, 2012 at 4:38 PM
- Catherine said...
Dear Claudia, I find that oven fried is often just as delicious as fried. Looks wonderful. Blessings dearest. Catherine xo
- September 28, 2012 at 5:34 PM
- Elisabeth said...
I'm sold on this fabulous crunchy, and with full vibrant, spicy flavor, and the lime butter just is so creative, and I'm totally craving this amazing baked/fried fish...Yumm!
- September 29, 2012 at 10:36 AM
- Kathy said...
Incredible looking..my husband would be drooling! He loves baked fish!
- September 30, 2012 at 7:46 AM


text:
SANA, Yemen — Al Qaeda's branch in Yemen has offered to pay tens of thousands of dollars to anyone who kills the US ambassador in Sana or an American soldier in the country.
An audio produced by the group's media arm, the al-Malahem Foundation, and posted on militant websites Saturday said it offered $160,000 in gold for killing the ambassador, Gerald Feierstein. The group said it will pay $23,000 to anyone who kills an American soldier inside Yemen.
It said the offer is valid for six months. The bounties were set to ''inspire and encourage our Muslim nation for jihad,'' the statement said.
The US Embassy in Sana did not respond to call seeking comment. Washington considers Al Qaeda in Yemen to be the group's most dangerous branch. The group overran towns and villages last year by taking advantage of a security lapse during nationwide protests that eventually ousted the country's longtime ruler.
Backed by the US military experts based at a southern air base, Yemen's army was able to regain control of the southern region, but militants continue to launch deadly attacks on security forces that have killed hundreds.
In the capital, Sana, security officials said two gunmen on a motorbike shot and killed two intelligence officers early Sunday as they were leaving a downtown security facility. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity according to regulations, said all intelligence and security officers have been instructed to take precautionary measures outside working hours.
Associated Press


text:
Easy Cake Mix Chocolate Chip Bundt Cake
1 (3 1/2 ounce) box instant vanilla pudding
8 ounces sour cream
4 eggs
1/2 cup oil
1/2 cup warm water
8 ounces mini semi sweet chocolate chips
Optional 1/2 cup course chopped walnuts
Preheat oven to 350 degrees and grease your bundt pan.
In a large bowl mix all ingredients beating well (except chocolate chips) together.
Fold in the chocolate chips, pour into a heavily greased bundt pan
Bake for 45-60 minutes. Allow cake to cool completely. Sprinkle with powdered sugar if preferred.
21 comments
- Federica said...
What a beautiful shape for this cake. It looks very good ^__^ Bye, have a great day
- September 21, 2011 at 12:36 AM
- Dzoli said...
Would never expect that you use instant stuff(pudding) .Result is amazing thou:))
- September 21, 2011 at 3:14 AM
- Su said...
What a wonderfull cake, and I bet the flavor is equally amazing ;)
- September 21, 2011 at 5:42 AM
- Curt said...
Nice and easy. I would definitely opt for the walnuts.
Very nice recipe as always!
- September 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM
- Pretend Chef said...
This cake looks so delicious. Hope you have a great day!
- September 21, 2011 at 11:57 AM
- Ann said...
I love sour cream in cakes....this looks delicious!
- September 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM
- Lenia said...
It looks so tempting!Hugs!
- September 21, 2011 at 12:22 PM
- redkathy said...
I'm a big supporter of using cake mixes to create something fabulous!! Shortcuts that count right :) Love the photo.
- September 21, 2011 at 5:40 PM
- Vicki Bensinger said...
How on earth do you manage to get out so many posts and I thought I spent a lot of time in the kitchen.
You know I love cake box mixes that you doctor up. Who cares if they aren't made from scratch so long as they taste great. Some of my favorite desserts are made with a cake mix or pudding mix.
This looks yummy!
- September 21, 2011 at 7:40 PM
- Sandra said...
One cake that does't want to work with me:)) you did fantastic job, look so delicious and pretty!
- September 21, 2011 at 7:45 PM
- Greg said...
I think bundt cakes have to be the upper class of cakes. Hey look at me, I look so good I don't need frosting and I still taste good. The cake sounds really good.
- September 21, 2011 at 8:25 PM
- anthony stemke said...
Sour cream in a cake is good, I love my bundt pan.
- September 21, 2011 at 8:36 PM
- Reeni said...
My Mom used to make this all the time for us when we were kids! She always used chocolate cake. There's a pistachio version too. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
- September 21, 2011 at 9:37 PM
- Erin said...
What a great cake! So nice when you can turn a box mix into something great!
- September 21, 2011 at 9:59 PM
- Tina said...
I know there are some people that have a ban on the boxed thing, but I am one that does not. The final product is what really matters and this cake looks stunning. Also, not that many people can resist a chocolate chip cake. Well done!
- September 21, 2011 at 10:00 PM
- Kim Bee said...
Wonderful cake Claudia. Love it.
- September 21, 2011 at 11:00 PM
- Cookin' Canuck said...
This would be the perfect cake for a Sunday brunch. Easy, too!
- September 21, 2011 at 11:34 PM
- Stephanie @ Eat. Drink. Love. said...
I love recipes where you can kick up a box of cake mix. So much easier!! This sounds yummy!
- September 22, 2011 at 12:07 AM
- Christine's Pantry said...
I love to doctor up cake mixes. Sour cream makes the cake moist.
- September 22, 2011 at 12:08 AM
- RavieNomNoms said...
Bundt cakes are the absolute best!
- September 22, 2011 at 9:39 AM
- TheChocolatePriestess said...
This is what I like: Easy but chocolate, too!
- September 27, 2011 at 1:47 PM


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On paper and in the national hype machine the Bengals are an unbeatable 13-3.
But they play in the AFC North, an 8-8 rock that grinds hype into half-truths. It is the proud heir to the Black-and-Blue Division, but The Purple-and-Orange, or the Yellow-and-Brown don't quite get it. It could be simply known as The Black Hole because the three division winners in the past four seasons (Bengals, Ravens, Steelers) all wear black.
So the Bengals are somewhere between paper and rock.
Try 11-5 in a division where the powers-that-be haven't slipped out of it just yet. They may during the impending tractor pull, but the Steelers still have Big Ben on offense and Charles Richard LeBeau on defense. The Ravens still have a quarterback that hasn't lost to Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer since 2010, not to mention a brand new cast of proven pass rushers (Elvis Dumervil, Chis Canty, Marcus Spears) to team with a former Defensive Player of the Year in Terrell Suggs.
But for the first time since the '09 AFC North sweep, the Bengals are primed to win five division games in a true passing of the torch.
Yet it is going to be how the Bengals perform in their first three Paul Brown Stadium games that will gauge how far this club has come against three of the flagship franchises since the turn of the century.
In the Steelers (Sept. 16), the Packers (Sept. 22) and the Patriots (Oct. 6), the Bengals duel quarterbacks who have won a total of six Super Bowls and been to the playoffs a combined 20 times
Here's how the Bengals get to 11-5:
SEPT. 8 at Chicago
The Bengals take on a new coaching staff and head coach Marvin Lewis is 3-2 in openers he's gone against teams with new staffs, 3-1 on the road. The Bengals have a special teams coordinator in his 11th year, a defensive coordinator in his sixth year, and an offensive coordinator in his third. Bears defensive coordinator Mel Tucker had the same job in Jacksonville the past two seasons, when Bengals quarterback
MATCHUP TO WATCH: The Bears are starting their first-rounder at right guard, Oregon's Kyle Long, and fifth-rounder at right tackle, Louisiana Tech's Jordan Mills. The Bengals just gave two-time Pro Bowl tackle
SEPT. 16 vs. STEELERS
The Steelers won't be as bad as some say, but if teams catch their developing offensive line early, they can really cause Roethlisberger problems. With a packed PBS lit up for its season opener on ESPN Monday night, it's not hard to see the Bengals defensive line matching last year's four-sack game with seven pressures.
These first two games of any 16-game season are, of course, huge, and in both cases the D-line has to earn its money quickly in two matchups it has to win against young, revamped fronts.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: The Steelers and their defensive conscience, 2008 Player of the Year
SEPT. 22 vs. GREEN BAY
The Packers were also busy in the contract department, locking up their franchise quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, and defensive quarterback, Clay Matthews. The Pack is a more than formidable foe with the magician-like Rodgers working on a run of four straight playoff berths with a nice a trio of receivers in Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb and James Jones.
With a short week after two emotional games, the Bengals have a tough time getting back up for a second time in six days.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: The Bengals have to figure out how to replace their best cover linebacker,
SEPT. 29 at Cleveland
Ten years and a day to his first win as head coach in the same building, Lewis goes against a new Browns head coach for the fourth time. In the three previous seasons (2005, 2009, 2011), the Bengals swept the series.
Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden turns 30 on Oct. 14. The Bengals won't have a regular on offense touch the ball older than 28, unless backup tight end and former Brown
The Browns made six waiver claims after cutdown day while the only move the Bengals did was replace wide receiver
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Turner vs. Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer. Two bright minds and they've had some doozies the past four years when Turner was the head coach of the Chargers. Turner got Zimmer in '09 on a last-minute drive for a winning field goal, but the Bengals held the Chargers without a TD last year and in 2010 held them to one TD until with less than two minutes left in a 34-20 win.
OCT. 6 vs. NEW ENGLAND
As big as it gets as the young-gun Bengals challenge the AFC hierarchy. The Bengals are 0-4 against Tom Brady, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
For years the Patriots have been trying to get up to competent in the secondary and finally the Bengals have enough weapons to spread them out and make them play one-on-one instead of in the safety of head coach Bill Belichick's schemes.
It looks like the Pats are going to try and play some smashmouth offense in order to take the heat off Brady adjusting to a new generation of receivers, but that's a tough script to follow on the road vs. Zimmer's guys.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals two-time Pro Bowl tight end
Since Gronkowski (arm) didn't go on the PUP list, he figures to play against the Bengals and he'll be a prime target. With the Bengals injured at backer, it's assumed offenses are going to attack the middle of the field quickly to get away from the pass rush, so the big tight end that has the biggest game may hold the key in this one.
OCT. 13 at Buffalo
The Bengals haven't won up there since 1985, the year their oldest starting offensive skill player (running back
Plus, Lewis is 13-10 vs. rookie QBs.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bills C Eric Wood vs. Bengals DT Geno Atkins. The Bengals coveted the Cincinnati-bred Wood (Elder High School) when he came out of Louisville and obviously so do the Bills. They picked him in the first round and just gave him a four-year, $25.4 million extension. It's not Atkins's $55 million, but Wood has emerged as a highly-regarded team leader in Buffalo and, like Atkins, is at the heart of what his team does.
OCT. 20 at Detroit
Another bump in the road on the road. A tough away game against a relentless pass rush paired with a dangerous offense. Every team always seems to have a couple of these no matter whether it is contending or not. Win some they shouldn't and lose some that are supposed to be in the bag.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals Pro Bowl wide receiver
OCT. 27 vs. JETS
The big question is if Rex Ryan is still going to be coaching this club for this one and if Lewis's record is going to be 14-10 against rookie quarterbacks going into this game, given that Geno Smith is supposed to the guy. If not now, soon, and certainly by now.
Which is just as well for the Bengals. They're 0-3 vs. Mark Sanchez, including a Wild Card loss.
How different are these two franchises since Cincinnati's utterly brutal 26-10 loss on Thanksgiving Night, 2010, in New Jersey? Since that game the Jets are 16-21, and on their third offensive coordinator and second defensive coordinator, but Ryan is back calling plays after giving it up for a stretch. While the Bengals have gone to the playoffs the last two years, the Jets have gone to the back page of the tabloids.
What is going to hurt the Jets in this game against this Bengals defense is the lack of playmakers on an offense that scored fewer than 18 points and averaged less than 181 yards passing yards per game.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Lewis vs. Ryan. Ryan was Lewis's defensive line coach on the great Baltimore defenses at the turn of the century. Lewis learned midway through his Bengals tenure how drama-filled days sapped his team's energy and attention and has worked hard with club president Mike Brown to find good teammates and eliminate the distractions. But Ryan has done just the opposite in the distraction capital of the world and will pay for it with his job. It should be a big factor in the Bengals winning this game in the cozy confines of PBS.
OCT. 31 at Miami
Trick or Treat on NFL Network Halloween Night. It's a short week, it's on the road, and it's against a defense coordinated by long-time Bengals secondary coach Kevin Coyle, author of last season's 17-13 stunner at PBS.
Of course, Coyle has never seen this kind of offense in Cincinnati with mismatch nightmares
And the Dolphins don't have a day at the beach because they're on the road at New England while the Bengals are playing the Jets that Sunday.
The Dolphins are faster than they were last year with the signing of fleet Steelers wide receiver Mike Wallace and the addition of linebackers Dannell Ellerbe and Phillip Wheeler, and they're banking on second-year QB Ryan Tannehill taking a major step forward after he put up some numbers that weren't as good as Matt Moore's from the year before.
The sked, more than anything, dictates this result.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Wallace vs. Bengals cornerback
NOV. 10 at Baltimore
A tough place for the Bengals to play. Make that everybody. Since Lewis became Cincinnati's coach in 2003, the Ravens have the second-best home record in the NFL, five wins behind the Patriots at 63-17. So Lewis's record in his old stomping grounds is pretty good at 4-6, but the Bengals haven't won there since the '09 sweep.
OK, Ed Reed and Ray Lewis are gone from this defense, but people are saying it's going to be better because Lewis and Reed were out of gas.
The Wizard of Oz (Newsome) has plucked proven pass rushers up front in Chris Canty, Elvis Dumervil and Marcus Spears. Baltimore's best cover corner Lardarius Webb is back from injury. Free-agent pickup Michael Huff and first-rounder Matt Elam make the Ravens dangerous at safety.
The reports of the demise of the Ravens defense are greatly exaggerated. The pendulum may be swinging in the AFC North, but it's hard not to get nicked.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals LT
NOV. 17 vs. CLEVELAND
The Bengals haven't lost to the Browns at PBS with their starting quarterback since Lee (Not Terrell) Suggs ran for 180 yards in the 2003 finale. The only home loss since then came in '08, when Carson Palmer was shelved with his elbow injury.
The Browns will be better than they were in September, but their last five drafts won't be and that's where the Bengals have them beat in the trenches as BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Giovani Bernard attempt to become the sixth different back to rush for 100 yards against Cleveland since the Browns came back into the NFL in 1999.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals WR
DEC. 1 at San Diego
The Chargers are starting from scratch. New GM. New coach. New tackles.
Poor Philip Rivers.
This one won't be as close as last year, when the Bengals eked out a 20-13 win when the Chargers didn't score a touchdown. Rivers's two top targets are back, but who is going to protect him? Especially against these guys. The Bengals jet to The Coast with a bye week under their belt knowing this same team won out there last year.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals LE Carlos Dunlap vs. Chargers rookie RT D.J. Fluker. Fluker is a big man and a terrific run blocker. The Bengals liked him, but as a guard because they feared his lack of quickness in pass protection. Just the kind of guy Dunlap exploits.
DEC. 8 vs. INDIANAPOLIS
Even before Peyton Manning went 7-0 against them, the Bengals found a way to lose at home to Colts quarterbacks from Jeff George to Jack Trudeau to Don Majkowski. Andrew Luck is the real deal, one of those elite quarterbacks that is capable of beating a top five defense like the Bengals at home. By this count, he and Rodgers are the ones that are going to make the Bengals 6-2 at PBS this season.
The Colts, coming off an 11-5 surprise with a mega rookie season by Luck, should be even better with one of his college coaches, Pep Hamilton running the offense. He's devising ways to protect Luck better (he was third-most sacked QB in the league last year) with a lot of double tight end sets and an emphasis in the running game that already got more than 800 yards from rookie Vick Ballard last season.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Colts TEs Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener vs. the Bengals linebackers. The Colts are going the way of the Bengals and are looking for ways to create mismatches with these two guys.
DEC. 15 at Pittsburgh
After last season's 4-1 December, Lewis is hoping he's buried the criticism of flaming out late and the Bengals will have to if they want to win the North. He's 5-5 in his hometown and last season's 13-10 win with four seconds left at Heinz gives this team some legs going in there. It's another prime-time game (NBC) and it will be another one of these all-or-nothing games the Bengals went through last year.
If the Bengals caught the Steelers offensive line early, then they catch a retooled Steelers defense late with its young offensive weapons in high gear. The Steelers have no Harrison on the edge, no Casey Hampton in the middle, no Keenan Lewis at corner, but they're looking to get more out of top picks like end Ziggy Hood and linebacker LaMarr Woodley.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals OC Jay Gruden vs. Steelers DC Dick LeBeau. Sometimes you wonder what would have happened with Carson Palmer if LeBeau as the Bengals head coach in 2001 had hired Bruce Arians as his offensive coordinator after he interviewed him. Gruden looks to have the weapons he needs to keep LeBeau's array of blitzes in check, from a wide receiver-like tight end in Tyler Eifert, to a wide-receiver like running back in Giovani Bernard to a tight end-like wide receiver in the slot in Sanu.
DEC. 22 vs. MINNESOTA
For the first time since the 1990 opener when Bruce Coslet brought the Jets to Riverfront Stadium, the Bengals face a former coordinator as a head coach. Leslie Frazier, Lewis's first defensive coordinator from '03-04 before he was dismissed, has a shot to spoil some things but he won't be able to do it against this defense with his quarterbacks.
Since Lewis took the job in '03, the Bengals (24-24) are one of six AFC teams to have a winning record in December.
The great Adrian Peterson could be sniffing 2,000 rushing yards as this point, but that's not going to be enough against this defense in the cold weather. The Vikings are asking quarterback Christian Ponder to be a caretaker and not to blow games, but he'll have to make a big play against this defense and he'll need first-round pick Cordarrelle Patterson to have a big first year. For receivers not A.J. Green, that doesn't usually happen.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Bengals WR A.J. Green vs. Vikings rookie CB Xavier Rhodes. Rhodes is big and fast, the kind of guy that can make a team go man-to-man. But not against Green and these receivers and the Vikings will be looking for the departed Antoine Winfield at some point.
DEC. 29 vs. BALTIMORE
Again. For the third straight year the Ravens finish the season at PBS. Two years ago it didn't matter because everyone lost that the Bengals needed to lose. Last year it didn't mean a thing because both teams were in it.
This year it's going to mean everything. The AFC North title and a home playoff game. Working in the din of madness against a Bengals defensive front that is committed to stopping running backs Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce, quarterback Joe Flacco has no place to go with Anquan Boldin in 'Frisco, and Dennis Pitta not healthy and struggles against Zimmer's varying looks. It's happened before here. Flacco threw two picks and had just 195 yards in the Bengals '09 PBS win and in the 2010 PBS game (Cincinnati's last win over Baltimore), he threw four interceptions. In 2011, he threw for just 130 yards, but Rice beat the Bengals on 170 yards rushing and Zimmer won't allow that again.
MATCHUP TO WATCH: Rice vs. Bengals rookie running back Giovani Bernard. The Bengals are hoping Bernard is their Rice and what better game to show it as the Bengals counter Baltimore's pressure with tough-to-beat matchups on the perimeter? Outplay Rice, the biggest Bengals killer in the division (with no apologies to Big Ben), and it's a win.


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I feel little sorry for MSFT. Just a little...
Then port Windows to both.
Microsoft will then have an arm-and-a-leg OS.
>Microsoft will then have an arm-and-a-leg OS.
Finally, a feature-set to match their pricing !
Really? Why? Windows supported Alpha and Itanium (MIPS too? I doesn't remember). It could just support ARM as well.
The problem is more the apps, windows itself could probably be ported without too much trouble but most windows apps are likely to have code that makes x86 specific assumptions and are closed source so only the vendors can fix them.
Emulation is an option but unless arm cores start performing a LOT better than intel cores of a similar power envelope that won't help much.
MS provides email, Outlook, SQL and web server applications. Why would you need anything more?
MIPS and PowerPC. It ran competitively on most of these architectures, but the problem was always the missing third party software. If Microsoft just wants ARM servers for internal use, this wouldn't be a problem. Other people could probably manage too. Server software on Windows tends to be either written by Microsoft, open source, developed in-house, or provided by a small number of other companies. The first three mean it can just be recompiled. The fourth means that MS can apply some pressure to encourage an ARM port relatively easily.
A lot of the win32 API makes stupid 32-bit-and-little-endian assumptions, so Windows hasn't been ported to any big endian systems (PowerPC and MIPS are biendian, and Windows ran them in little endian mode). The 32-bit assumptions are hacked in win64 by using an LLP64 model, which breaks the assumption that sizeof(void*) <= sizeof(long). This is not guaranteed by the spec, but since it's true for pretty much every platform in existence before Win64, a lot of people assume that it is.
ARM is 32-bit and little endian, so userland Windows software should be pretty trivial to port. The only real difference you might notice is that ARM doesn't support unaligned loads, while x86 does (it's just really slow). An ARM OS can trap the exception caused by an unaligned load and emulate it, so even code that depends on it could work, just slowly. The only time you'll notice this in C code is if you are doing a lot of pointer casting - if the compiler can tell that it's an unaligned load, it will do two aligned loads, and shift-and-mask the results together. This is not exactly fast, but it's faster than an OS trap.
FYI: MS will now drop Itanium support after Windows2008R2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium#Software_support [wikipedia.org]
"However, Windows Server 2008 R2 will be the last version of Windows Server to support the Itanium and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 will be the last version to support the Itanium.[14][15]"
IOW: this is a marketing ploy
I can see myself using an ARM-based linux server in the home.
If they get proper business support from some largeish vendor pushing out rack machines then that'd be great too. All the servers I admin currently run x86 from Intel. Saying that, when idling, they're not terribly power hungry; but arm boxes should be a lot better.
Lowering power consumption is never a bad idea for your bottom line, as long as the performance-per-watt is acceptable. The first thing I thought was that it would be useful for larger clusters of machines if the performance isn't on-par with power6/x86 server chips. At the end of the day the deal breaker will be just how much performance you can get out of their server chips, which will affect what type of environment they're suitable for.
I would rather have a Linux server with feet processor instead of an arm processor:
There seem to be a nice example on the link below:
"This is usually when you try to bend straight in transit (storage, drop, the operation inserted in a socket, etc.) feet processor. "
http://avs-info.net/upgrading_processor_solder_legs.html [avs-info.net]
I would rather have a Linux server with feet processor instead of an arm processor:
I heard Tux was an extra in Happy Feet [imdb.com]..
And how about small businesses?
I bet those millions of servers handling an office of five people can happily do with half the horsepower and 10% of the power use.
And I'm not just thinking of my own business.... with a 1.8 MHz or so Intel based computer idling most of the time handling the e-mail and files of my staff and me.
Your server is has a slower CPU than a Intel 8080?
Another advantage might be lowering the number of components. A Beagleboard would make a great low-volume server, except that it lacks any way other than USB for connecting disks and network adaptors. The same ARM core with the GPU removed and a couple of SATA and GigE controllers added would be a great SMB server platform. You could pop the OS and most apps in the flash and connect an external disk for served files. With the disk spun down, you'd be using under 2W for the rest of the system.
My previous server was 6, 7 years old when it became my server. It did the job nicely until the hardware broke down. The current server is not serving up files any faster (the 100 Mbit LAN is the limiting factor), it is not serving the web pages or sending/receiving e-mail faster (again the network is the limiting factor), backups took a little longer but that no-one is waiting for so that doesn't matter.
My old server probably used less power overall, so it was better for my power bill even tough
x86 CPUs are beasts.
I'm wondering how well an ARM multi-core CPU would do just serving up files off a RAID array? x86 quad-core CPUs are probably total overkill for that - and perhaps not worth it because of the power consumption.
Yep, there's a market for ARM.
cowlark.com is run off a single SheevaPlug with some USB hard drives attached. This is: SMTP server (postfix), spam filter (spey), IMAP server (dovecot); web server (thttpd); Java servlet server (winstone, run in OpenJDK, interpreted. Yuck. No JIT available for ARM); my local news server (leafnode); my local DNS/DHCP server (dnsmasq); my local backup server (rsnapshot). It's also my main shell box for doing downloads and stuff.
The whole hardware stack, UPS included, consumes about 18 watts, although this varies depending on whether the hard drives are spun up or not. Most storage is on a 64GB home-made SSD (4 x 16GB USB keys & RAID!), so it's completely silent.
The SheevaPlug is a 1.2GHz Marvell ARMv5, with 512MB of RAM and 512MB of flash (which I'm not using). It cost me about 70 UKP. Unfortunately it's only got one ethernet port, so I've got way too much stuff hung off its single USB port --- and Marvell's USB hardware is notoriously dodgy. The new GuruPlug looks way more exciting: same processor, but two ethernet ports, more USB ports, and SATA!
I have a Marvell openrd-client. This thing has the guts of a Sheevaplug except it comes in a fancier case, uses a separate wall wart, has onboard video, more peripherals and a spot for a 2.5" hard drive inside.
I've got a 500GB 5400rpm hard drive poked inside and Debian Linux installed, and it acts as a file server, music server, torrent downloader, etc. Pulls about 8 watts from the wall, though I've got video disabled, second ethernet disabled, etc. Couldn't be happier with the thing.
I can see myself using an ARM-based linux server in the home.
The question is - what do you run on your home server?
Mine is mostly a file server, so I moved over to ARM last year (on a SheevaPlug, with 2 1To USB drives, mirrored of course).
If you run a lot of compute bound stuff you might be unhappy, but simple stuff probably doesn't need multicore.
On the home scale hassle very often is comparable to the benefit and the margin of benefit is comparable to economic perturbation (your car damaged by the snow truck during the freak-snowstorm of 2010, for example), while on the google serverfarm scale margin of benefit per a processor multiplied by the number of processors and can exceed economic perturbations.
Consider the analogy: home improvements very often are similar to the desire of the intelligent particle in the medium to avoid collisions to stay t
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the Nano [wikipedia.org] make a better choice for a low power server chip, with its hardware based encryption support?
As another poster said it isn't some sort of watts limbo, where the only goal is how low can you go, but more importantly how useful those watts are in actual application. The Nano will run existing x86 software, so backwards compatibility is no problem, and with security being in the forefront of everyone's minds these days it seems to me one would get better performa
Performance per watt.
ARM gives performance at without massive cost of watt. Just scaling it up would mean performance.
ARM already got performance on par with x86, but uses less then 10 times the power. Now, if people are stupid to make use of x86 for servers would not a upscaled ARM cluster beat the crap out of it? Uses less power, faster.
And RISC means power, what buzzwords are you listening too?
ARM already got performance on par with x86
Pull out the benchmarks, or that's complete BS.
I'd say that ARM is on par with x86 Hz vs Hz, or even better. The problem is that ARM is barely past 1 GHz while x86 is pushing towards 4 GHz. There are just now ARM processors with two high performance cores, while x86 processors are pushing past 12 cores and climbing. There are no ARM cores that I know of that does hyper threading, while almost all x86 cores do at least two way multithreading.
So.. I'd say that we will be using x86 for high performance servers for quite some time still.
However.. putting litterally thousands of low performance ARM cores in a 3U enclosure would certainly be good for some server applications.
I'd say that ARM is on par with x86 Hz vs Hz, or even better.
With all the caching and pipelineing and uber-high speed memory buses that x86 has, which ARM doesn't, I just don't believe you.
IOW, benchmarks or you're full of shit.
IOW, benchmarks or you're full of shit.
Benchmarks are BS too. Better to check out the in-depth analyses in Microprocessor Report (that was certainly the source for this sort of thing back when I was doing this sort of hardware).
Generally speaking (at a very gross approximation!) the biggest factor in speed seems to be feature size, and ARM cores run cooler than x86 cores. ARM have focussed on the low-power end of the market far more than Intel and AMD (who have been duking it out at the high-speed end) and this means that for some applications, their stuff is absolutely best. I don't know whether that's true for server-class computing; the lower power consumption will get better packing densities but whether that will compensate for the reduced computational power I just don't know.
Of course, a good benefit in the "small server" market would be being able to run normal workloads without active cooling (i.e., fans) in a normal room. That would save loads on power and aircon. (And I know for one thing that there are ARM cores that can cope with very wide temperature variations. It's impressive when you see someone torturing a CPU with a hairdryer and – straight after – some dry-ice...)
ARM cores have both cache and pipelines, y'know? But lets find those benchmark results by making them ourselves:
Using one core on an AMD X2 2,8GHz and an ARM Cortex A8 core at 600MHz on a beagleboard, I've done some tests. Cache-optimized matrix multiplication of two matrices at 600x600 takes 0.45 seconds on the AMD, and 4.57 seconds on the A8. That's about 10x slower. However, the A8 (in an OMAP3530 package) produces just under 1W of heat. The TDP for the AMD is 65W, but since it's dual-core let's take half of that, plus an additional 20% fuzz factor because the TDP is the maximum rating.
By this slightly fuzzy, synthetic but memory-heavy benchmark, the performance-per-watt difference is about 2,5x in favor of the ARM Cortex A8 core. One core of an AMD X2 would have to put out below 10W to beat the A8. By my fuzzy math that would mean a TDP of 25W or below for the processor.
There you go, you're welcome!
Once you start pushing the performance envelope with the ARM core, your performance-per-watt advantage will become less pronouced.
The ARM processor looks so good in your benchmark because it is really not asking much of the silicon at all. Increase the ARM processor's clock rate to 3ghz, and you will need to add:
1) More cache to prevent memory core starvation
2) More voltage to make the silicon transistors switch faster.
This will cause the ARM processor to create a LOT more heat.
The key will be to find an ac
Does this mean I'll be able to run my 10TB Oracle data warehouse on this,
Softpedia also points out that there was also no indication that the company plans to go head to head with Intel's Xeon and AMD's Opteron series
Most probably not, and definitely not if Oracle doesn't generate ARM binaries...
or would I more likely use them in my webserver farm to save on power bills?
Instead ARM may limit its options to the print and storage server market.
That's a possibility too.
Low end stuff.
And the racks upon racks of servers that average 10% capacity. Why couldn't many of them be ARM-based? (Except for the fact that they run Windows.)
That means it still can do stuff that only a few years ago we called "high end". It is just not top-of-the-line. And what many geeks and nerds tend to forget is that >90% of any market is in the lower end.
Whilst ARM processors do have excellent MIPS/Watt the processors do have lower clock rates, smaller cache, slower/narrower buses so I do n't see these being very useful for general purpose multi user servers. However if your application is mainly I/O bound and you can do most of it via DMA they would be great. I can imagine for google they make alot of sense, however for something that runs on PHP like facebook less so.
They can be excellent as fileservers/cloud stuff, given their performance per watt ratio, dont expect that a computing intensive task is run on them (they are barely 2-3x as fast as an atom in their recent incarnations, but at a fraction of the power an atom uses)
but they are an excellent choice for io intensive cloud like tasks where you need a load of machines and have a vfs sitting on top of it.
Anything concurrent.
I know that one of the original developers of the ARM CPU is working on a massively multicore ARM-based project (tens of thousands of cores). Apart from just the low power aspect of ARM, what makes it good for hugely multicore projects compared to x86 is that an entire ARM core is smaller than just the part of an x86 processor that figures out the length of the next instruction - x86's ISA becomes a huge ball and chain if you want to make a massively multicore system.
Far from all servers are used in data centres.
Far from all servers have a typical >50% load on their processor.
There certainly is a huge market out there for small, lower-end servers for which your average Intel based box is simply huge overkill.
Low power per operation and all that?
My RAQ2 is still going strong, home server, uses according to a kill-a-watt meter about 20 watts, which I could reduce significantly by replacing the old 80 gig IDE with a laptop drive and adapter.
Apart from that, runs stone cold, fanless, so silent, and 100% reliable.
I've tried to talk up MIPS / Cobalt before, but it has fallen on stony ground, frankly I think most
The RAQ550 and XTR (got 2 each of them too) were abominations by comparison with
Cobalt was bought by Sun which was bought by Oracle IIRC. Also Cobalt delved into X86 processors later in their design cycle. MIPS was not cheap enough.
AFAIK there are some Chinese CPUs which are MIPS compatible (Loongson) and Tilera's design is also MIPS like.
While I agree with you completely, it doesn't seem like it's possible to find MIPS based devices for sale any longer, short of the occasional ancient device or Chinese netbook via eBay.
I suspect the licensing costs are too high or something like that. Back around ~2000 there were a number of handhelds/portables that had MIPS processors; later versions had SmartARM and were not proportionately faster (by clock). MIPS does not appear to have matured as fast as ARM has in terms of most modern features, either
Depending on your needs you can already use ARM servers. This http://www.open-rd.org/ is perfect as a dns server, dhcp server, firewall, mail server or even a webserver on a small network. I really like using those devices as 'physical virtual servers': ideal as an isolated, task oriented server for tasks that do not need a full fledged server.
I have one of these at home (with Debian on it and a 2TB hard disk attatched).
Hell, you could do that with an NSLU2, running an arm core at 266MHz with 32MiB of RAM and an external drive. That *and* a simple torrent box.
You can do much more with a sheevaplug, mine has a full vnc server and gnome running on it at reasonable speed, or at least it had before I emigrated and gave it away. An OpenRD box should be fully capable of being a basic linux desktop machine.
It is nice to see some alternatives to the x86-monoculture coming along, but I wish MIPS was still around, it is a beautiful architecture with the same efficiency advantages of Arm but an even cleaner design.
Still around? MIPS is going strong in the embedded market. My company works on transit systems and MIPS represents about half of our work. There are lots of networking products that uses MIPS, from the customer to the core. RMI has a MIPS64 eight core SoC with four threads per core.
I'm aware that MIPS is alive and well in the embedded world, but it has pretty much disappeared from the server market where it used to have a very strong presence.
Also, for somebody just interested in playing around with alternative architectures, it has become harder and harder to find cheap MIPS systems to play around with (the PS2 was a mips system, but the PS3 is PPC, the PSP is probably the only easily 'hackable' MIPS hardware still being produced in considerable quantities).
And yes, I'm aware of the
Well, PS2 is a MIPS system...production continues and Sony stated it will continue as long as demand for consoles and games is there (new ones scheduled for this year, too)
That's probably in large part due to so called "3rd world" countries, but I'm sure you can pick one up easily where you are.
AFAIK recent PS2 systems do no support Linux or other OSes. But I must admit that I have not kept up with the homebrew community.
I do know that the PSP has a cpu similar to that of the PS2, and that it has been hacked and has a healthy homebrew community, but still, it is not the same as a really open and documented system.
Depends what you want to hack. My Netgear ADSL router is MIPS based and runs linux so you can roll your own distro if you want.
Not that I did, but I like that the option's there.
Also, just to add to your list, the Sony PSP runs on MIPS IIRC
ARM is David. x86 is Goliath.
Most of us inherently favor David.
I've always thought that the x86 architecture is a dead horse beaten to the speed of light. It is the 21th century and we need something slightly better than rocks and sticks and x86 to throw at the old monstrosity known as computation. If we're still going to depend on x68 in 20 years I'd rather kill myself by banging my head against an x86 chip.
Thing is, quite cheap and rather small laptops based on Intel CULV chips showed up recently; some of them certainly can do 10h, perhaps there are some with 12h. And they are fast, if needed.
On top of that, if I look at announcements of ARM netbooks - even though they will be purposely quite limited machines, it doesn't appear like manufacturers want a price reflecting that. Certainly not as long as there's not much competition yet, as long as they can offer it as a "premium" machine. Which has a big chance
Of course, you can spin it another way. ARM is an IP company - they don't make chips, they make IP (their architecture specifications, and their CPU designs) that they then license to other companies. Then again, they're not a patent troll, their IP is generally fairly good (even if the various architecture versions and features are ridiculously confusing,) and they actually do license it, rather than just keep it so they can sue people.
They also usually license designs rather than just ideas.
The architecture licences (to Intel and others) may be exceptions.
s/anti establishment/shoestring budget and you are correct
ARM nowadays is a big company but originally it was a sidedevelopment for the next BBC machine.
> ARM is David. x86 is Goliath.
ARM is British. x86 is from that-place-across-the-water-that-seems-to-be-doing-quite-well.
> Israel? I thought that was where the current Intel Architecture was designed?
Although my post did not mention it I was thinking of where it was *invented*. AFAIK the 8086 was created by Intel in the USA. But I could be wrong
I requested a small server for a project at work - the minimum my shop buys is an 8-way,16GB beast. I need to run 1 single-threaded app, and I get this.
What's the point of a Beowulf cluster if it doesn't cause the lights to dim when you're performing your mad scientist calculations?
I used to have a PDP-11/10 that would do that.
As the cost of energy continues to rise (due to purely political reasons rather than any actual scarcity, which is sad) there's going to be more and more demand for computing equipment with low power consumption. ARM fits that requirement nicely
Windows running on ARM would suffer from the same (imho perceived) problem that desktop Linux on x86 has: it wouldn't be able to run Windows x86 binaries. In fact, for Microsoft it would actually be worse because they'd have to deal with irate customers who thought they'd be able to pop in that CD and install some application they already own.
Linux has been playing this one well by establishing a large base of open source software that can be built on any platform. Combine this with your favorite APT or YUM repository and what do you get? The equivalent of an "app store" which is something the world is now quite familiar with. Linux for the win!/p?
I'm a bit disappointed that this is coming to pass, as it was a venture project I wanted to possibly get into at some point. I saw the potential, but obviously someone else did, too...
Thus, I might be able to have ARM servers. That excites me. Thermal and power issues at the data center have always been an issue, as I'm sure they have for everyone.
And realistically, many (if not most) systems don't need the power of a multicore Xeon server. I've got older P4 era infrastructure systems which barely even see
I'm already running an Arm based server. It's called a QNAP NAS and the TS419P runs a Marvell Feroceon CPU "Feroceon 88FR131 rev 1 (v5l)" (cpuinfo).
It's running Debian Lenny (2.6.30-2-kirkwood) and thanks go to the Debian Arm team and Martin Michlmayr. Runs great.
I too would like to thank Martyn.
I used to run two NSLU2s, now I have a sheevaplug. His work enabled me to turn them all into debian boxes.
How is the QNAP stuff? What's the core speed/RAM?
Was toying with buying one but they were expensive compared to sheeva. Of course you have to get the disk caddy extra for the plug.
Who goeth a-borrowing goeth a-sorrowing. -- Thomas Tusser


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Third in a series
Click here to go to main Hall of Fame page
COOKEVILLE, Tenn. -- One of the last of a rare breed, Grant Swallows was a two-sport letterwinner at Tennessee Tech. A six-time letterwinner (four in football and two in baseball) and a former senior administrator at Tennessee Tech, Grant left his mark on Tennessee Tech Athletics in more than one capacity.
It was his four solid seasons as Golden Eagle quarterback that earned him a spot among Tech's Hall of Fame inductees.
Swallows is one of four people who will be inducted at the annual Hall of Fame Dinner, scheduled for Friday, Nov. 2, in the Multipurpose Room of the Roaden University Center. The induction dinner is part of Homecoming festivities. Tickets for the dinner, or the Saturday afternoon game against Eastern Illinois, can be purchased through the Athletics Ticket Office in Eblen Center or by calling (931) 372-3940.
A three-year starter under head coach Mike Hennigan, Swallows reaped numerous awards and honors as one of the most distinguished quarterbacks in TTU history. Over the course of his career on the gridiron, Swallows broke 16 career, season and single-game records.
During his final season at Tech in 2001, Swallows set the school record for most completions in a season, most yards in a single game and a single season, and most touchdown passes in a single game. Furthermore, he set the record for TD passes in a single season and for overall touchdowns responsible for.
In a game against UT Martin, Swallows logged an 86.9 completion percentage against UT Martin, going 20-for-23, to establish yet another school record.
For his efforts during that season, Swallows was named one of three permanent team captains and was awarded the Robert Hill Johnson Award and the Sonny Allen Leadership Award, as well as the 2001 Headliner Award. An All-OVC second-team honoree and an Academic All-District honoree, he was the OVC Player of the Week for three consecutive weeks.
The following spring, Swallows became the first TTU student-athlete to be named both Male Athlete of the Year and Man of the Year. He was also the recipient of the 2002 OVC Steve Hamilton Sportsmanship Award, an NCAA Postgraduate Scholarship award and was one of eight recipients nationally to receive the NCAA Freedom Forum Foundation Journalism Scholarship.
Swallows was also given the opportunity to play professional football overseas in Germany, but an injury ended his playing career.
As a junior. Swallows led the Golden Eagle football team to an 8-3 overall record and was named Academic All-America. When football was finished, he moved across campus to play on the baseball team and helped lead Tech to the OVC championship and NCAA Regional. A third baseman, he played in 33 games.
Swallows earned his bachelor's degree in 2003 in English-journalism, being named to the Athletic Director's Honor Roll 10 times and the OVC Commissioner's Honor Roll four times.
After returning from Germany, Swallows moved from the playing field to the sidelines, serving as a student assistant coach at his alma mater beginning in 2002.
In 2003, Swallows was named assistant football and baseball
coach at Livingston Academy, and began work toward a master's
degree. He claimed that degree in 2005, and added an Ed.S. in
Also in 2006, he came back to Tech to serve as quarterbacks coach under interim coach Doug Malone, helping freshman Lee Sweeney earn OVC Newcomer of the Year honor.
That led to his being named head football coach and assistant principal at Livingston Academy in 2007, but in 2008 he once again came back to Cookeville, taking the position of Associate Athletics Director for Development.
His latest career move came in July 2011, as Grant was named principal at White County High School in Sparta.
Grant married Beth Ann Johnson, his college sweetheart, and the couple is raising their two children -- Brady (5) and Anniston (3).


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By Jim Garamone
WASHINGTON, Oct. 13, 2006 – The Iraqi government has been operational for about 150 days and is working to confront problems facing the country. It has taken some time for the government to "get their legs under them," but it is moving forward now, Army Gen. George W. Casey Jr., commander of Multinational Force Iraq, said in a Pentagon news conference Oct. 11.
"(The Iraqi government is) working hard to build unity, security and prosperity for all Iraqis. And when I talk about those three priorities with the prime minister, he fully recognizes that if you want prosperity, if you have to have security, and if you want to have security, you have to have unity," Casey said. "And he's been making a very significant effort on the reconciliation front."
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has often said that the situation in Iraq will be resolved by a combination of political, economic and military efforts. The Iraqi government must move to unite the people and provide jobs for the "angry young men" in the country, he has said.
"Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki recognizes that while the military side or the security side is not the total answer, he does recognize that it's part of the answer," Rumsfeld said following a meeting with Maliki in July. "And as a result, he and General George Casey have been in very close consultation about increasing the size of the security forces there and simultaneously pursuing the reconciliation process."
Military commanders understand this, as well. "I don't believe there is any military strategy alone, any kinetic operations that we can run alone that will create the conditions for victory which we must have," Army Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, said during a Pentagon news conference Sept. 15. "There are economic and political conditions that have to improve out at Al Anbar, as they do everywhere in Iraq, for us to be successful."
Military force is necessary to provide security behind which a government can form and develop, but the impetus must come from the Iraqis, Marine Gen. Peter Pace told the Senate Armed Services Committee in August. "Shiia and Sunni are going to have to love their children more than they hate each other," the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said. "If they do that and seize the opportunity that the international community has provided to them, then this will be what we wanted (it) to be, which is a success for ourselves and the Iraqi people. But the weight of that shift must be on the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government."
This is happening, and the Iraqis are confronting thorny issues, according to State Department officials in Baghdad. On Oct. 11, the Iraqi Council of Representatives approved a federal regions law, which will allow Iraq's provinces to hold referendums to merge themselves into larger federal regions.
This is contentious among the Sunni minority in the nation. While no referendums can be held for 18 months, it will probably cement Kurdish self-rule in the North and may create a Shiite state in the south, State Department officials said this week in a weekly status report on Iraq. Both the Kurdish and Shiite areas are awash in oil, while Sunni-dominated central and western areas of Iraq have little in the way of natural resources.
The council also is addressing charges of corruption. The council voted to lift immunity to prosecution for corruption from Mishaan al-Jaburi, a Sunni tribal leader and businessman accused of looting $75 million a month from Iraq.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki reached out to Sunni tribal leaders during a meeting in Anbar province Oct. 7. Sheikhs, imams and other clerics and local government leaders attended the meeting. Maliki promised to support the provincial government and fund reconstruction and basic services projects in the region.
The Iraqi government also is taking control of its armed forces. The Iraqi Ground Forces Command executed its first independent operation Oct. 6-8, when it ordered the 4th Iraqi Army Division to conduct missions in Kirkuk. The division worked to quell a rise in car bombings in the city, according to the State Department report.
On Oct. 3, the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior pulled the 8th Brigade, 2nd National Police off the streets for retraining. The unit had been implicated in sectarian violence.
The Iraqi government ordered all checkpoints in Baghdad to have an equal number of Sunni and Shiite troops manning them. The government is doing this to ensure security forces do not countenance secular attacks.
Overall, 307,800 members of the Iraqi security forces are now "trained and equipped." In the Ministry of Defense, there are 129,700 Iraqis in the army, 800 in the air force and 1,100 in the navy, for a total of 131,600.
In the Ministry of the Interior, there are 123,500 local police, 24,400 members of the national police and 28,300 members of other Interior forces -- mostly border police -- for a total of 176,200.
Friday, October 13, 2006
Iraqis Working to Craft Political Way Forward
Posted by Raymond Foster at 5:35 PM
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Each week, Arcane Brilliance brings you a wealth of Mage news and information, an unhealthy amount of incredibly biased commentary, a sprinkling of unnecessary and entirely random pop culture references, at least one unapologetically hateful and frequently childish comment about Warlocks, several examples of poor spelling and questionable grammar, and the occasional wildly inappropriate fart joke. I apologize in advance.
Patch 3.1 is allegedly bringing with it one of the most significant changes the game has yet seen: the dual spec system. Players have been clamoring for the option to switch between specs freely as long as players have been clamoring for just about anything, so this new system promises to make a lot of people very happy. I'm a little excited about it myself. I may or may not have taught my two-year how to say "dual spec." I think she believes it to mean "when I say this, Daddy starts smiling and talking a lot." I also may or may not be secretly training her to be a tiny Warlock-killing machine. "OK, kiddo, this button here is called 'Counterspell.' Go ahead, push it. Now blow up the Gnome with the ugly doggie over there. Good job!" I believe Warlock-hate is something that can only be taught at home. I'm not trusting the school system to instill those values in my kids, that's for sure. And, yes, I'm a terrible, terrible parent.
Ahem. Back to dual specs.
Though the system will undoubtedly be more exciting to hybrid classes, we Mages will still benefit greatly from ready access to two different talent specs in our own special pure-class way. No, we can't switch roles like a Warrior or Druid will be able to--no matter how we spec, we're always going to be DPS--but having a different brand of DPS at our fingertips to switch to when the situation calls for it will be more significant than you may think.
So what, exactly, will dual specs mean for Mages? Click on the magical orange text below and we'll discuss the possibilities.


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In my day job I deal with a lot of unusual, long (18 characters plus) names and let me tell you, sometimes there are letters that just shouldn't go together. Like, Z and Q. Or X and K. When I saw these super cute Gwdihw balms I did sit there fore a second and try to pronounce it phonetically.
They say:
Gwdih? pronounced "Goody Hoo" is the Welsh word for "owl" and also the brand name of our great range of Natural Balms & Soothers.
Gwdih? (The Owl) is recognised today and known through human history as a symbol of wisdom and purity. Our range of balms and soothers are made using traditional methrods and herbs that have been used for generations to blend ointments for healing.
Ah! Goody Hoo!
These balms come in cute little tins and are made of natural butters and oils. They have a really adorable set of balms such as Muscle Rub, Bugs Away and of course a set of lip balms. I chose Nail Wizard for my dry cuticles and Night Owl Sleep Balm.
Nail Balm melts quite quickly to work into the nails. Ingredients: Coconut And Olive Oils, Beeswax, Cocoa Butter, Calendula, Lemon Essential Oil.
Sleep Balm is lovely and smells of Ylang Ylang which is a nice change from Lavender. Ingredients: Coconut & Olive Oils, Beeswax, Mandarin Oil, Ylang Ylang Oil.
The Nail Wizard balm is more 'oily' once it warms up whereas the Night Oil is thicker and bette for the skin.
These balms are naturally scented by essential oils. The scent is quite subtle, not overpowering at all.
Here are the balms. They do feel somewhat different on my hand which is good, as it shows they're not all the same thing but with different packaging:
These are so cute and nice little balms without preservatives and nasty ingredients. I'm tempted to get the bugs away for when I go on holiday!
The balms come in 25g tins and cost £4.25 each. Buy them here at Cute Cosmetics.
*Pr Sample


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WEST BRIDGEWATER — He was there when Patriots fans fled as the stands burst into flame, and when they tore down a goal post and hauled it out of the stadium. He cheered at the Snow Bowl, gaped in wonder at the Snowplow Game, and claimed victory in a snowball fight with the Minnesota Vikings. He has sat through more losing seasons (16) than recent arrivals on the Patriots bandwagon would imagine possible.
Long before "New England" became a synonym for "perennial football juggernaut," Charles Underhill of West Bridgewater stayed true to a hapless team that bounced from venue to venue like a barnstorming vaudeville act. Underhill, 73, became a season ticket holder in 1966, the franchise's seventh season. In those 47 seasons, Underhill says, he has attended every playoff and regular season game played at home — save one, for reasons beyond anyone's control.
And on Sunday, as the Patriots host the Houston Texans for a divisional round playoff matchup, Underhill will don his team apparel and take his seat in section 109, row 27, in time for kickoff. He will stay, no matter what the score, until the final whistle — just as he has for hundreds of Sundays, in defiance of the blizzards, downpours, and lackluster play that might have deterred a lesser devotee.
"To me, it's like a birthday every time I go to the game," Underhill said Wednesday at his home on Route 106, where he showed off the Patriots jackets, T-shirts, yearbooks, tickets, and accessories he has accumulated over the decades. Underhill, who keeps fit playing full-court basketball, recalls feeling under the weather on a few given Sundays over the years, but never sick enough to miss the opening kickoff.
"I probably went to the game quite a few times when I should have stayed home," he said.
Longtime Patriots fans are a notoriously hardy lot. Back when the franchise was infamous for producing some of the most unintentionally laughable moments in NFL history, its faithful followers braved teeth-rattling cold, parka-piercing winds, and the worst traffic jams in the history of organized sports to watch the Pats fall short time and again. (In the first 10 seasons of Underhill's attendance streak, the team went 45-92-3.)
"It really was a test of faith to have been a fan of this team," said Richard Johnson, curator of the Sports Museum, a nonprofit educational organization at TD Garden, who often refers to the Patriots' "weird, surreal history." Of Underhill, he said, "My hat's off to this gentleman."
Underhill, who is retired after a career in the computer and financial planning businesses, acknowledges the impossibility of verifying his claim to near-perfect attendance ("You would need a picture of me entering the stadium for each game," he said. "But I am 100 percent honest.")
He does pass this test: Ask him about any game, and he can describe what it was like to be there. Say, for example, the Aug. 16, 1970 preseason matchup with the Washington Redskins at Boston College's Alumni Field. That was the day when a fire broke out in the stands, forcing spectators to wait on the field while the blaze was extinguished.
"I can still feel the heat rising up from my backside," said Underhill.
A more joyous event on Dec. 22, 1985, led to mayhem at Sullivan Stadium in Foxborough. After the Patriots clinched a wild card spot with their 34-23 victory over the Cincinnati Bengals, fans stormed the field in celebration. Some ripped down a goal post and carried it out of the stadium.
"I thought the end of the goal post was going to jam somebody in the face or in the body and cause real serious injury," Underhill said. (Instead, the uprights got tangled in power lines, giving five of the celebrants the shock of their life.)
"The fans back then in many cases were unruly and kind of destroyed the family atmosphere," Underhill said.
Although he is the only one in his family to attend nearly all the games, he has always brought along loved ones. He has cheered the team with his wife, Janice, 73. His father, Frank, frequently accompanied him until his death in 1994. His youngest son, Timothy, 42, went to every game for 15 seasons, until he moved out of state. Underhill has rooted for the Pats with his two brothers, his sister, all three of his children, two of three grandchildren, and various in-laws. He keeps a chart of his family fan club, divided into membership levels, gold for those who have seen at least 40 games with him, silver for at least 20 games.
One of his sons, Daniel, 45, a silver member who now lives in Florida, recalls attending a game during the Patriots' lackluster 5-11 1993 season, against the Bengals, who would finish at 3-13. The temperature was 10 degrees. The son recalls his father bringing him a hot chocolate to warm him up. It froze. Even so, they stayed until the last play of the game, when the Patriots sealed a 7-2 victory. Charles Underhill would never let the temperature dictate an early exit.
"I've always stayed to the final gun no matter what the weather was or what the score was," Underhill said. "I only had one exception and it wasn't my fault."
That was a matchup with the Miami Dolphins when, after the final play had ended and fans had left the stadium, the officials noticed that the game clock was wrong, and called the teams back onto the field to replay the final seconds. Neither was it Underhill's fault in December 1995, when his flight home from Colorado was canceled because of snow, and he missed a 31-17 loss to the New Orleans Saints.
Before the Patriots found a home in Foxborough, the team played at fields across Boston. Underhill first bought season tickets when the Patriots shared Fenway Park with the Red Sox. The venue was better for baseball than football. "I was so far from the game I probably only understood half of the plays," he recalled.
Underhill was also at Harvard Stadium on Sept. 20, 1970 for the season opener against the Dolphins, when the public address announcer asked Bob "Harpo" Gladieux, a former player who was in the stands, to report to the locker room so he could join the team. Those 1970 Patriots finished 2-12, and fans sought moral victories wherever they could. In December of that year, fans exchanged volleys of snowballs with the Minnesota Vikings players. The Pats lost, 35-14, but Underhill says the spectators won the snowball fight.
"I think I hit more bull's eyes than anybody," he recalled.
Snow also played a role in Underhill's two favorite home games.
On Dec. 12, 1982, as the Patriots lined up in a snowstorm for a field goal attempt to break a 0-0 tie with Miami, an inmate on work release was sent onto the field with a tractor fixed with a brush to clear the turf for kicker John Smith. Although Smith later disputed whether the act helped him, he nailed the kick, the Patriots prevailed, 3-0, and the legend of the Snowplow Game was born.
"I don't think that's ever been tried again," Underhill said.
His other all-time favorite is the "Snow Bowl" — the dramatic, 16-13 overtime playoff victory against the Oakland Raiders on Jan. 19, 2002, on the way to the franchise's first Super Bowl win. A referee called back an apparent Tom Brady fumble, kicker Adam Vinatieri made game-tying and game-winning field goals, and long snapper Lonie Paxton celebrated by making snow angels in the end zone.
On Sunday, Underhill will sit at the 45-yard line behind the Patriots bench. Four seats cost him around $7,000 this season, a far cry from the $48 he paid for a season ticket in 1966. He predicts a Patriots win, but either way, he will stay until the end.
"Should be a good game," Underhill said. "Can't wait to go."Globe correspondent Derek J. Anderson contributed to this report. David Filipov can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.com. Follow him on Twitter @davidfilipov.


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Equine Racing Management A.A.S.
Course DescriptionEquine Farm Management
Basic management principles affecting the operation of an equine farm business. Topics include asset valuation, calculation of inventory, stable construction, cost estimation, balance sheets, records for income and expenses, income statements, farm labor, farm finance, contracts and agreements, and the analysis of the equine business. 3 credits (2 lecture hours, 2 laboratory hours), fall semester


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|The stupid question is the question not asked
Comment on
|( #3333=superdoc: print w/replies, xml )
|Need Help??
My Prime focus is not forking but process some thing in a child process and get the values updated in parent.
So you want your son to learn French and your daugther to learn German, and you expect that you automatically speak both French and German as soon as both have finished learning. Does that work in real life? Nope. And it also won't work with fork()ed processes.
Please read fork-exec, fork, and perhaps also exec.
Generally, processes can't update other processes data. You need some kind of inter-process communication, or shared memory. Shared memory won't work well with Perl, because perl tends to move data around when its size changes. See perlipc for details on both ways.
Another option, with its own set of traps, is using threads. Threads give you lightweight "processes" inside a single process, and threads can actually share variables. See perlthrtut for details. Of course, this works only if all external programs you are using now are merged into a single big program (possibly by moving each program into a single module).
Today I will gladly share my knowledge and experience, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so". ;-)
In reply to Re^3: Global Variables Not Updated in Child Process
by afoken