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Cruise passengers would be landed near a container terminal and clogged airport roads under an ambitious proposal to build a new passenger terminal at Botany Bay.
One of the world's largest cruise companies, Royal Caribbean International, wants a new passenger terminal at Botany Bay capable of handling the newest generation of mega cruise ships carrying 3000 to 6000 or more passengers.
The company's commercial manager, Adam Armstrong, said provisioning ships at the Overseas Passenger Terminal near Circular Quay was difficult and crowded
And only four of the company's 44 cruise ships could fit under the Harbour Bridge to travel to White Bay, where the new cruise terminal will be located.
''A solution east of the bridge is urgently required,'' he said.
Royal Caribbean approached the Minister for Ports, Duncan Gay, with its proposal a few months ago, a spokesman for the minister said.
Mr Gay visited the Port Botany site with company executives, but he said any decision about whether Port Botany was used as a cruise terminal was ''really a decision for the stevedore lessees''.
Port Botany includes two container terminals with six container vessel berths, operated by Patrick Ports and Stevedoring and DP World. A third company, Hutchison Port Holdings - one of the world's largest port operators - is building a new container terminal as part of the $1 billion Port Botany Expansion project.
Hutchison's spokesman, Pat Wilson, said the company was well advanced in developing its new container terminal which would have a high level of automation.
''Passenger and container terminals, particularly those with a high level of automation, don't mix,'' he said.
Would arriving in Port Botany have the same wow factor as arriving in Circular Quay?
Mr Armstrong conceded that it would not be as glamorous but it would be far more efficient to land passengers at Port Botany than Circular Quay.
Botany had ''excellent road, rail and airport links which would avoid navigating the busy streets of Sydney's CBD''.
He said it would also make it easier to load fuel and stores on trucks, which was problematic in the CBD.
The company's proposal did not get the support of Ann Sherry, the chief executive of Carnival Cruises.
''Spectacular cruise ship arrivals and departures from Sydney Harbour are integral to the cruise holiday experience and have contributed to the remarkable growth of cruising in Australia in recent years and its growing economic contribution,'' she said.
The NSW government believes the booming cruise industry, which has benefited from cut-price berthing of only $250 an hour in the past five years, should fund any additional infrastructure.


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NYPD Looking Into Criminal Gone Wild DVD! On MSNBC
Cops investigate 'Criminals Gone Wild' videos Dec. 12: The man behind a controversial series of "real crime" videos has caught the attention of New York City police. WNBC's John Noel reports.
Buy The DVD With High Quality at CriminalsGoneWildDVD.com&IP=220.127.116.11
Please click the "Report" button below if the video on this page is not working properly.
Comments will only be displayed by verified emails. No Spamming or Racism.

subset: commoncrawl


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Cows of all breeds, shapes and sizes paraded around the livestock facility within the Shelby County Fairgrounds on Thursday, officially marking the beginning of the Shelby County Fair.
The district dairy show, beginning at 9 a.m. and lasting for much of the day, saw more than 140 heads of cattle pass through the barn doors. Girls and boys from all across the state and 20 from Shelby County competed. The show is conducted by the Kentucky Department of Agriculture and staffed and supported by the Shelby County Cooperative Extension office.
Rain from a brief but intense thunderstorm pounded on the roof of the barn in the morning, and staff shut the barn doors to prevent the rain from making its way inside. The cows remained relatively calm despite the cracks of thunders and pelting rain, which poured down at a frantic pace for close to 10 minutes.
Needless to say, the new addition of manure receptacles within the barn rather than dumping the waste outside behind the building – an addition applauded earlier this week by organizers – proved an effective and efficient method for cleaning up after the animals.
The rain did little to derail the other big attraction on opening day – the Shelby County A&M Truck and Tractor pull. Fair officials quickly repaired the muddy track after the morning rainstorm.
Of all the cattle shown during the dairy show the Holstein, with its iconic white-and-black color scheme, proved to be one of the most popular.
"They're like dogs; different people like different breeds," said Regina Browning, county extension agent for 4-H youth development, referring to the breed's popularity.
Judy White, the Shelby County agriculture and investment program administrator as well as the leader of the Shelby County Dairy Club, said many of the kids participating in the show don't come from farm backgrounds.
"You would think a lot of our students are from dairy farms, but most of the kids aren't," White said.
The dairy club teaches students about raising and showing dairy cows.
"It [dairy club] really keeps them motivated and connected to agriculture and learning about where their food comes from," White said.
Friday will see the open dairy show in which anybody can participate, followed by the youth dairy show open only to Shelby County residents on Saturday.
Observant fair anticipators may have noticed a big change in this weekend's fair schedule when compared to years past – there will be no events on Sunday, June 16.
Ray Tucker, president of the A&M Association, the entity that puts on the fair, said that was intentional.
"It's Fathers Day, and we just made a conscious decision as a board not to have anything going on Sunday," Tucker said.
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Never miss a deal, always be up to date -
The most important events and product news
with the MUSIC STORE Newsletters!
The Traditional Double Bass Set is constructed and tensioned similarly to acoustic bass strings for a warm tone and great bow response. Designed for electric upright basses with standard playing lengths, but shorter overall lengths (no tailpiece).
Features: NS617 Medium Tension 3/4 Scale high C
Every month we are giving away a shopping voucher among all submitted reviewers worth 500 EURO!
Congratulations to the winner of December: Michael Rauser, Heilbronn (DE)
The winner from the previous month (November): Martin Reinert, Siegburg (DE)
You can rate this product if you like. By rating this product you will be automatically entered into our monthly shopping voucher giveaway!


text:
Sleep Off Those Summer Time Blues Cue To Call- 9/20
Are you looking to win that new mattress from Metro Mattress? You have to qualify first! Want to know when we will play the "Sleeping Sounder"? Well we will be playing two today. Here's both cue to call times for September 20th.
TODAY BE SURE TO BE LISTENING BETWEEN 11:00aM-11:30aM
Is this NOT today's time to call?


text:
Facebook adds arrest to reasons to dismiss NY suit
Lawyers for Facebook have added a New York man's arrest on fraud charges to their list of reasons his lawsuit claiming part ownership of the social networking giant should be dismissed.
Facebook says in a recent federal court filing in Buffalo that the U.S. Attorney's decision to charge Paul Ceglia with two felony counts last month objectively backs up what the company and founder Mark Zuckerberg have been saying since Ceglia first sued: that Ceglia fabricated the contract on which his lawsuit is based.
Ceglia, of Wellsville, N.Y., has pleaded not guilty to charges of scheming to defraud Facebook by filing his civil suit. Ceglia has stood by his claims that a 2003 contract he and Zuckerberg signed entitles him to a 50 percent stake in Menlo Park, Calif.-based Facebook.


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Summer Institute
Monday, May 16 — Wednesday, May 18, 2011
Location: Ruttger's Bay Lake Lodge, Deerwood, MN
The Summer Institute is a personal enrichment and professional development opportunity for CSB/SJU faculty, staff and administrators. In designing this institute, we believe one of the primary ways we learn about the process of vocational discernment is through careful and committed listening to self and others. Our time in personal reflection, listening, and discussion with colleagues cultivates our ability to assist students in their own vocational discernment. We will engage in vocational reflection privately, in small groups, and within the entire community of participants.
2008 Summer Institute 2010 Summer Institute
Each day of the Institute focuses on addressing the following questions:
- Monday: What does it mean to reflect on our lives from a vocational perspective?
- Tuesday: How do we discern our vocation?
- Wednesday: How can these tools and processes be incorporated into our work with students? With our greater campus community?
Enrollment in the Institute is limited to twenty participants. Preference will be given to faculty applicants from various disciplines, and administrators and support staff from various departments who have significant interface with students. Participants who are not selected to attend the first year will be given priority in subsequent years.
The Institute will be co-facilitated by the Companions on a Journey staff - Mary Reuter, O.S.B., and invited presenters.
To apply:
- Complete the online application which includes a brief reflection on the your current vocational aspirations and why you would like to attend the Institute.
- The Human Resources department has approved this as compensable professional development activity for support staff and administrative employees. In order to participate, support and administrative employees must obtain prior approval from their supervisor endorsing their attendance and submit supporting documentation.
Lodging, meals, and mileage costs are covered. For further information, contact Sister Mary Reuter, Interim Director, at 5935 or Jodie Peschl, Administrative Assistant at 5939.
For more information about Ruttger's Bay Lake Lodge visit their Web Site.
The Summer Institute is a staff and faculty development program offered by Companions on a Journey for the Theological Exploration of Vocation at the College of Saint Benedict and is funded by a grant from the Lilly Endowment, Inc.


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Lady Bucs beat Lenoir, advance in Region X tourney
The No. 1 seed Catawba Valley Community College volleyball team advanced to the next round of the Region X Tournament on Friday with a 3-0 (25-13, 25-12 and 25-7) victory over No. 8 Lenoir Community College.
Jennifer Beatty led CVCC with 13 kills, eight digs, two aces and one block. Leah Wells added eight kills, 10 digs, two blocks and an ace.
CVCC, who is ranked No. 19 in the latest National Junior College Athletic Association poll, was led in assists with 29 by Lacy Goodson.
With the win, the Lady Bucs (32-0, 19-0) advance to the Region X semifinals where they will face Pitt Community College at 10 a.m. on Saturday.
The winner of that match will compete in the championship match at 2:30 p.m.
The Region X/District P champion will travel to Toledo, Ohio on Nov. 15-17 to compete in the NJCAA Div. II National Tournament.


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The Air Texture Volume Series asks two producers to curate a CD each of material for combined release. Producers are selected from the worlds of ambient, modern composition, avant-garde, and experimental electronic music.
As electronic music moves into the rock arena, it's essential to take note and respect the history of experimental electronic music: from Satie's furniture music and La Monte Young's drones to Cage's I Ching compositions and Eno's works first dubbed by him as Ambient.
From there and in the tradition of Excursions in Ambience and Pop Ambient, Air Texture looks to catalogue and promote the diverse world of new ambient, experimental, and less beat oriented electronic music, through the musician's perspective.
Highlights include Brian McBride (Stars of the Lid), Pan American (Labradford), and Simon Scott (Slowdive) among many others.
artist selected by loscil and Rafael Anton Irisarri
title Air Texture Volume II
label Air Texture
date 2 July 2012
format CD
CD 1 : loscil Selection
01 Brian McBride – At a Loss
02 Marcus Fischer – A Fifth Season
03 loscil – Else
04 Chris Herbert – Naimina
05 Pan American – Tx
06 Strategy – Frog City
07 Solo Andata – Before Sunsets
08 P Jørgensen – 401
09 Rob Bridgett – Field 3
10 Mitchell Akiyama – Dirge for the Canon
CD 2 : Rafael Anton Irisarri Selection
01 Marcus Fjellström – The Eroding
02 Sawako – Hovering
03 Simon Scott – Modena
04 Library Tapes – Och natten andades redan under träden
05 Lissom – Hollow of Winter
06 Mokira – I love you pipecock
07 Benoît Pioulard – If I could possibly tell the difference,
I wouldn't care anyway
08 Eluvium – Sleeper
09 Kyle Bobby Dunn – La Passerelle de ses yeux
10 Rafael Anton Irisarri – Black days follow me around
11 Lawrence English – Cooperative Drift
12 bvdub – Surrender To Your Cold Embrace (feat. Wang Lijing & Lu Yan)


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Just picked up a bunch of bay purchases from my dads house. Still waiting on the chassis kit to come in from addicted2rc.
Here is what came in the past week. Yee haa!
Sent from not a iphone
My rem stuff just came today at the same time my nitrorcx stuff came but I ordered about a week apart the ********* stuff will take about 45 days they said is that normal the rem chassis is super thick I think you will Like it did you get the ext one I thinking about getting the tranny but you parts look good
Thanks Chris? I did get the ext chassis. I went ahead and got the whole kit. I ordered it in three separate orders. I couldn't make up my mind. I could have saved money buying the package deal. I ordered the trany first. I probly won't use the a-arms, but just wanted to have them I will use my protrac arms. Now the waiting game. Have fun with yours. Post some pics of that bad boy. Peace
Dirty, Ive been real excited to see ur build come together! Cant wait... Keep that bad boy all green and black for sure.
As for your shocks, U should switch ur bodies our for the Losi Hard Anodized ones.. They are Gun Metal Colored and would look awesome!
Very nice, Also.. As for your servo Saver, with allthose goodies, get a Kimborough 124 Servo Saver. Comes in black, and a nice Metal Geared servo to match ya?
Build, Bash, Clean, Repair, Repeat..
Going to watch this build. Can't wait to see more...
Looks like this is gonna be good! the Trenchers balloon SOO MUCH when they're pre-mounted. I think it's best to buy those separately and tape/glue them yourself but nice goodies so far man
The Hot Racing servo savers are not the best. The adapters they come with have a habit of stripping and Hot Racing does not offer replacements. If you find yourself needing a new servo saver I suggest the ones from Racers Edge. Mine have held up very well and dont look like something off of my Losi Jr.T.
Oderint Dum Metuant
I've used rem for a few builds, extended chassis with the works. It will bend if you beat it, but that's what the warranty is for. I had about 3 of everything at one point, Hist so I didn't have sown time while exchanges traveled back and forth. You'll love the stuff im sure! Here are a. Couple of my rem rigs
with this build, locktite is a must! Check all screws often! One loose screw on the alloy will cost you the part, it will bent and strip if its loose! I've bent more alloy parts than most folks will ever buy in their hobby lifetime so take my word for it. Wat h the screws in the front tower to bulk, shock top screws, trannyto rear tower, and chassis braces. These are the ones that come loose often.
Last edited by thedreadedend; 10-16-2012 at 09:52 PM.
I'm not a hatchet man! I'm a maggot!
1 x LOSB2845 Losi Front & Rear Shock Shaft Set (4) (Ten-T) $9.25
1 x LOSB2904 Losi Front & Rear Shock Plastics & Ball Set (4) (Ten-T) $6.39
2 x LOSB2906 Losi Shock Rebuild Set (2) (Ten-T) $9.18
1 x SPTSTLB2825GM STRC CNC Machined Aluminum Front Shock Body Set (Red) (2) $13.49
1 x SPTSTLB2826GM STRC CNC Machined Aluminum Rear Shock Body Set (Red) (2) $15.49
1 x SPTSTLB2904GM STRC CNC Machined Aluminum Shock Cap Set (Red) (4) $17.99
1 x LOSB2905 Losi Front & Rear Shock Boots (8) (Ten-T) $5.49
But in the original posted link, it had R instead of GM, which I replaced the part numbers for ya on these. You need all those parts to build em. btw.. The shocks are for the losi Ten Series, I.E. Ten T, TenSTE, etc.. I just started building them too. Im awaiting for my Red Shock bodies, and more parts...
Im rooting for ya bro, The way ur parts are coming along, its gonna look sick! I hear ya on the servos. I have Traxxas 2075, bunch more plastic geared ones, A Savox 1258tg, I just purhcased a Hi-tech 5646 Waterproof* and now a Hi-Tech 645mg... So I could have the right one.
Also, unfortuantly ya ordered the wrong slipper clutch kit. thats for the Revo, and its to big for the Pede. The alum Pads will fit, but u canactually get the alum pads by them selves from Hot Racing. I have em on my Rustler. And ya the anodized parts will take a while. Mine took nearly a month to get my black tranny... sucked...
Im really rooting for ya bro, Its gonna be off the hook, and slowly the better (in a way) because things can go slowly and surely...I really think ur pede is gonna be off the hook... Especially with ur color combo. I think I am gonna have to make one more pede for me too! lol. Gotta do the green. lol.
Build, Bash, Clean, Repair, Repeat..
There u are dread!
As for Servo Savers, If u have a metal geared servo, go with a Kimborough 124(black). If u have a plastic geared, kimborough 121(white0
Build, Bash, Clean, Repair, Repeat..
Thanks for the info guys. Keep it comming. I have already experienced alloy versus plastic. Hit a speed limit sign with my non alloy p2de. Broke the chassis. Slightly tweaked the rpm shock tower. $10.00 for a new chassis ready to go that night. Hit a water meter with my p4de with traxxas alloy shock towers. Broke protrac front a-arm and bent the alloy top shock tower mount. Not panning on beating this new build. I am almost done rebuilding the original p2de with the Velenion esc/motor and a few other must have goodies. That way I can play in the mud and water. Hope I don't regret the rem parts, but like I said I Will have one to beat on and one to love on.lol thanks again! All replys will be taken into consideration.
The hot racing hd servo saver (black n silver) is a fairly stiff saver and will kill plastic servo gears so make sure you run a metal geared servo. As for the servo horn adapter threads stripping, I've been running mine for a year now on many different servos and its still holding strong, but I use permanent thread lock on the spline before putting the adapter on and let the thread lock set for 24 hours before running. It will also come with a few different adapters for different brands of servos, so make sure to use the one that fits the tightest, as there is another one that will seem like it fits ok but is the wrong spline and it will strip if used. Make sure to firmly tighten the saver mounting screw and use some medium threadlock on it so it can't back out.
For the losi 8ight 8th scale shocks, you'll want the buggy shocks. (these are what some of the slash guys use) search ebay chop shops for the best deal on these shocks. You should be able to get em at 60-70 for the full set. I have read that the truggy stocks are too long at 127mm. The ones I have are knock offs that I won for 20 bucks off ebay, but can be had for not much more than that if using the buy now option. They've been good so far, but they come with weak rod ends. I'm also gonna go for the real ones right away because I want the ti shafts.
Sent from my GT-I9100M using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2
Never trust an "Atom", they make up everything.
Sent from not a iphone
Another shock option is using a pair of losi Ten-T shocks on the front, and a pair of Ofna FRONT shocks on the rear.
You'll have to use spacers (washers) on the top and bottom to clear the A-Arms. That's a $50 solution for you.
My Black & Blue Rally is faster than your color...
Fast Lane Machine Diff lubed and assembled. Love the red.
Sent from not a iphone
That's the diff and oil weight I have in my Slash. You'll like that setup. I started with 5000wt which I decided was too loose, and settled on the 30k.
My Black & Blue Rally is faster than your color...
My wheel nuts came in today. I got the green traxxas aluminum nuts. Should look tight. Last night I went ahead and ordered some losi 1/8 scale buggy shocks. I think they have the aluminum caps on them because I noticed a bleed hole on them. What's really cool and keeping with the green theme, I ordered some green spring socks. I also picked up a RPM green trans case cover. Don't know if the REM transmission comes with one or not. My integy trans did not. Looks like I finally found a way to make the castle sct 2400 green motor feel at home. Green and black. Should look cool. Now for the body. What color will I paint that?
Keep the theme going green and black
This is one of my favorite parts bin!
Sent from not a iphone
Those are some awesome goodies there. All my fav......Time for some building...Luv it.
Weak Revenge
Strong Forgive
Intelligent Ignore
that motors going to be a MONSTER!! especialy in a 2wd
Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL
That's how we roll baby! Im excited for ya
I'm not a hatchet man! I'm a maggot!
Those TRAXXAS greens look great sitting next to the 2400, dirty. If you ever decide to make the jump to 17mm hex wheels, I've seen the Kawasaki e revo hex nuts available on eBay too
Thanks guys. I can't believe I made a good color matching decision! I normally want things done today. Waiting patiently is new to me. I think it will pay off. Ging offshore Monday morning for about three days. Gota go make some cheese.lol
Here is some more stuff that came in. I got the rpm motor protector. Wish it came in green. I also got some SPTST 12mm pin lock hex hubs. Dont think i will need the two for the rear as the new mips have a hex hub. I forgot to picture the black rpm front bumper. I hope i get to use the green rpm tranny cover.
Sent from not a iphone
You can put a cover on an REM case without issue. The problem is, and will be, keeping the teeth on your spur. You may find yourself powering through spur gears because of the torque a 2400 will push. With a perfect mesh, it'll be fine, nut once you get a touch of slop in the teeth, that gear is gone! Maybe you should consider a backup set in the 32p sizes. This will last longer and handle the torque without question. Only thing is, the gear cover out, wont fit with 32p.
I'm not a hatchet man! I'm a maggot!
How are those hot racing servo savers I was thinking about getting one in blue
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What a serious combo of parts Dirty....Man this pede is going to be off the hook!!!!
Build, Bash, Clean, Repair, Repeat..
Gonna be a sweet truck once you got er all put together!
Sent from Baldy's iPad using Tapatalk
Never trust an "Atom", they make up everything.
Hey Baldy i got my 1/8 losi buggy shocks in and i love them. I paid $70 on the bay. They have aluminum caps and collars. Also titanium nitride shafts. Check out the green springs on the rear. Also got the green covers in. They are a little to long, but i also ordered the smaller ones. Waiting on them to come in. I just got a bay update that the rem stuff is on its way.
Sent from not a iphone
Here is a better pic of the 1/8 losi shocks. Man these shocks are huge. I put them next to my ten t losi shocks. Big difference is size.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Here is a pic with the "green" shock sock on it. I like it!
Sent from not a iphone
Thanks to Loot i was able to accomplish this. During the process the completed motor.
Sent from not a iphone
Very nice man! Yeah the 8ight shocks are pretty massive. They were a necessity for my HR P2de XL cuz it is now tipping the scales at nearly 8lbs! As dread stated, youll have to ensure you get the mesh right on the money with that 2400 motor. I havent had any problems running 48p gearing with my et-3s and et-2400 setup, but i now run a hardened 72 tooth steel spur gear from hot racing and hard coated pinions from robinson racing. I had initially thought that running an all alloy trans case with steel internal gears, metal spur and pinion and aluminum gear cover would make some pretty loud operating noise, but it is surprisingly quiet. It does make for a pretty cool sound when running the truck at 55mph though. You are pushing a little less weight on your truck than i am, so as long as your mesh is good, i dont think youll have too much to worry about if you stick with 48p. Are you planning to run on 2s or 3s lipo?
I like the wire wrap you guys are using on your wires, i think im gonna have to try some for myself.
Now get er all put together so we can see this beast!
Sent from Baldy's iPad using Tapatalk
Never trust an "Atom", they make up everything.
Awesome dd!! Nice touch on wrapping the wires. I've been doing that on my last couple of builds. I bought a handful of different shades a while back. That stuff seems to last forever. haha I'll be working my way around to the rest of my rigs soon enough. With winter coming around and shorter days, that should leave me some spare time to hook up the rest of my fleet.
The cable wrap you have looks close to the one i've been using. Man those losi 1/8 shocks are frigg'n huge!! I dig em.
Keep up the good work!
Weak Revenge
Strong Forgive
Intelligent Ignore


text:
Get to Know Zinio
Hosted by: Westland Area Library
The event will start on: Mar 19, 2013 8:00 PM
And will end on: Mar 19, 2013 9:00 PM
Location: Westland Area Library
Address: 4740 W. Broad Street Columbus, OH 43228
Did you know that you can download magazines to your computer or devices for Free? Zinio is the world's largest digital newsstand, offering library users dozens of digital magazines, complete with color pictures, intuitive navigation, and interactive audio and video. Bring your device or follow along on our projected computer screen. No Registration Required.
Westland Area Library
Tuesday March 19 at 7:00 p.m.


text:
The image of a smegma producing sail yacht is now stuck in my head!
Where's the brain bleach when you need it!
I was thinking of ships with zits. Of course, as the ship gets older, it will probably grow out of it. It will be bad for the ships that ship chocolate and potato chips!
...and no, you don't grow out of it.
Any further discussion would be TMI.
Tell me about it. Receding hair line, grey in my beard and I still get zits? WTF? And they call this 'intelligent design'?
Too Much Information.
Get with it.
Dude, what what would you do if I told you (truthfully!) that sebum is all over your body? It's all over your hair, your skin, etc.
Yeah. That's because sebum is a term that refers to the natural oils that coat your hair and skin. It's what makes your hair and skin waterproof and what protects them from drying out.
Oh, and definitely don't pop them on your own! That will just clog/infect surrounding pores and permanently damage the pore that's clogged, resulting in more cysts overall. A dermatologist can remove the cystic fluids easily and carefully in ways you cannot on your own. I did not heed that advice when I was a teenager, I wish I had.
Really? Who can afford to go to go to a dermatologist twice a week for zit clearing?
"as a result of repeated and frequent sexual stimulation post-pubescent,"
'Scuse me?
I think real bleach works quite well with removing thoughts from your brain... just drill a hole and in it goes. Just don't expect any new thoughts to occur in that area... ever...
I would have been the "first post", but, well there were too many potential jokes.
I really like "Sailors regularly defoul their hulls", but then there's the "Sebum"/"Semen" play on words which is always popular.
"dry-dock" change some letters...
oh my goodness I just can't decide, so I've lost my first post chance.
So I guess I'll just RTFA and ponder how OpenBSD would help with this problem without even making a "soviet russia" or "natalie portman" reference
I really like "Sailors regularly defoul their hulls", but then there's the "Sebum"/"Semen" play on words which is always popular.
It's a slippery slope.
A surface that inhibits barnacles is only a start, for there are other things one can do to make a ship more eco-friendly
One if obviously a more fuel efficient engine
The other is to improve the design of the propeller to make it more efficient while lessen the drag
Then there is the need for a much lighter material for the construction of the ships
Last but not least, new designs of ships are also needed.
Go Nuke. They did it once http://www.atomicengines.com/ships.html [atomicengines.com], but made it more of a 'show' boat than a work horse.
* The Savannah was designed as a showboat. Her purpose was to demonstrate American technology as part of the "Atoms for Peace" program. Pretty lines and luxurious staterooms were more important than cargo capacity or loading ease.
* She made politically motivated port calls, not economically motivated ones.
* She was a one of a kind ship, required to support a specialized infrastructure by herself.
* There were some difficulties with union negotiations. She spent almost a year tied to the pier because of the deck officers did not want the engineers to make more money than they did.
With the air craft carriers no one seems to have a NIMBY problem. You could move quite a bit of cargo with a few lbs of uranium.
So it'll require hiring some more staff (Like an actual engineer and maybe some armed guards). The US Navy has managed to not have any nuclear powered vessel captured by pirates.
Heck I wouldn't have a huge problem if the US Government wanted to own and operate a super-super cargo ship if it ran on Nuclear energy. The amount of oil those ships burn is measured in thousands of gallons per mile.
It *is* measured in thousands of GPM:
120 gallons per mile == 0.12 thousands of gallons per mile
According to WikiAnswers, if a cargo ship travels at 30 mph (roughly 26 knots), it burns 120 gallons per mile.
The largest container ships in the word operate on diesel engines with about 114000 HP at 25.5 knots. The engines consume (at peak efficiency, not regular operating conditions) 0.260 lbs/hp/hr of fuel. Diesel is around 7 lbs/gal, so the calc works out to about 144 gals/mile... at peak efficiency.
I saw your claim and thought, "What about superfreighters?" After some back-of-the-envelope calculation, I'm surprised at their relative fuel efficiency...
However, they're still dirty, dirty ships. One superfreighter releases the same SOx emissions as 50 million passenger cars. So even though the fuel usage isn't as bad as it one might think, there are other reasons why nuclear would be better.
I agree that nuclear would be better. I was merely trying to correct the hyperbole the OP said about ships using "thousands of gallons" per mile. If that were the case, the entire ship would be nothing but a fuel tanker and unable to haul cargo.
We did it once upon a time.
Apparently Supertankers and Cargo ships have cut their speeds down to 10 knots to save fuel, some of the greatest Cargo ships of the Age of Sail managed 13 knots no dinosaur juice needed.
And everything one of the other posters cited about better materials and new designs still applies.
Flettner Rotors are more efficient than conventional sails, they failed because Diesel was just too cheap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship [wikipedia.org]
Enercon a Wind Turbine company built a Rotor Assisted
Not only is there the difficulty of getting into many harbours with large sailing ships, but we should also remember that sailing ships cannot sail directly into the wind, and make some leeway when sailing across the wind. This means that the Suez and Panama canals are effectively impassable under sail, and so tugs would be needed to avoid the much longer journeys around the south. There is also the issue of calms, and the need to follow the trade winds. These will cause massive variability in shipping sch
With the air craft carriers no one seems to have a NIMBY problem. You could move quite a bit of cargo with a few lbs of uranium.
So it'll require hiring some more staff (Like an actual engineer and maybe some armed guards). The US Navy has managed to not have any nuclear powered vessel captured by pirates.
Ok, so now we'll need to protect cargo ships same way that we do aircraft carriers. Hmm, do we have enough battleships for escort?
Ok, so now we'll need to protect cargo ships same way that we do aircraft carriers. Hmm, do we have enough battleships for escort?
The fleet that accompanies an aircraft carrier is not for pirate protection... they are there to protect against submarines and battleships, and to resupply the aircraft with fuel and munitions.
Forgive me if I'm not giving the pirates enough credit, but until they have modern submarines and battleships, or fighter/bombers... then I think a few armed guards with sniper rifles
Forgive me if I'm not giving the pirates enough credit, but until they have modern submarines and battleships, or fighter/bombers... then I think a few armed guards with sniper rifles and maybe a large caliber deck gun would suffice.
Many foreign governments frown on (as in its illegal) the possession of so much as a handgun by unauthorized personnel in their territorial waters.
But then the easy solution would be to work out a set of international regulations permitting commercial vessels to be so armed. Countries could elect to sign such an agreement or not. Nuclear powered vessels would only be permitted to operate in international waters, or where they are able to avail themselves of the proper security. If nukes prove to be such a
The only US battleships left are museum ships or in reserve.
Actually a nuclear powered ship would be well defended from pirates by not slowing down to save fuel and not sailing near dangerous areas to save fuel.
Wouldn't a better comparison be between Ships and Freight trains?
Mostly going in relatively straight lines with limited (compared to trucks) ports.
Sorry, no car analogy.
ehm, have you ever studied ships?
Large ships already have extremely efficient two stroke diesel engines (even over 50% which is extremely high if you consider the carnot max) They also have many devices to recover waste heat.
Propeller designs are already very sophisticated, difficult to improve there.
weight: the weight of the ship is very low relative to the amount of cargo it carries (compared to e.g. a truck). Also, the ship sails at relatively low speeds and mostly in a straight line so acceleration/deceleration losses that increase with mass are not really a factor.
All in all cargo ships are already the most efficient mode of transport on a fuel/cargo weight-distance ratio basis.
Well, my farts probably produce 100 times as much SOx emissions as the vehicles I drive. It's not terribly meaningful to compare two different fuel sources.
The Emma Maersk class freighters carry about 154,000 tons of cargo. Given the earlier ballpark of 144 gallons per mile, that works out to about 1070 ton-miles per gallon. Compare that to a F150 which can make 28 ton-miles per gallon...
I'm sure at the fuel expenses the shipping companies have, saving a percent or two would be huge.
One other way to increase efficiency of a ship is a Bulbous Bow [wikipedia.org]
Genetically engineered whales with a built in cargo hold. You just have to train them well, and take advantage of their natural migration patterns..
As fun a thought as it is, I occasionally have the opportunity of working with wild bottlenose dolphins - a species that sheds the outer layer of its skin extremely often, and yet we will still see in-shore animals disappear for a few months, most likely going into deeper waters, only to return later with barnacles attached to the tip of their dorsals.
Now either the barnacles are very, very good at attaching themselves to anything - or there's some freaky dolphin/barnacle action going on in deep waters
How many LoC's ('prox 20 TB circa 2007) can be transported by whale vs. my '70 Impala?
Genetically engineered whales with a built in cargo hold. You just have to train them well, and take advantage of their natural migration patterns..
Ever watch Farscape? The primary vessel in that sci-fi TV series is a space-faring biomechanoid leviathan, one of a class of spaceships that serve mostly as cargo transport. Yep, that's right, just as you suggest, they are genetically engineered whales!
Yep, that's right, just as you suggest, they are genetically engineered whales!
Fuck THAT. All it takes is one near miss or a bad storm off the Philippines, and the next thing you know, your ship is spooked and your shipment of Nintendo DSes is sitting inside the whale in the middle of Abbey Road!
Lemme guess, you'll want to guard them with sharks with friggin lazers!
Errant preachers travel for free! *
* select destinations only.
... stopped reading after the headline...
And don't get me started on how ridiculously long-winded the summary is. By the second sentence, I was thinking, it's a summary, not the actual friggin article. Get to the point already!
Why isn't some sort of non-stick coating such as Teflon not an option?
The glue that barnacles produce will stick to Teflon.
Here is an old 2005 article [nationalgeographic.com] similar to this concept that talks about using a "skin" similar to shark skin to combat the barnacles.
Thanks for the link.
America's cup boats typically are hauled out of the water after every days racing. There is little opportunity for stuff to stick to them because they are always moving, and anything that does stick is washed off. Furthermore there is a ton of work done at low reynolds numbers and boundary layers to ensure the boat bottoms are as efficient as possible - including micro-grooving the bottom material. I am not sure about America's cup, but in many racing series it is against the rules to add any shedding coat
Fire hoses are already heat-resistant woven material + a rubber liner. They get wet and have to be dried because they're there when tons of water are being sprayed in all directions at a fire. And, if firefighters are doing their job right, you'll never see a line running through a fire, ever. That would mean they've been cut off by the flame and have bigger problems than a line in the fire. Although, I wonder if that's ever happened and a hole got burned in the line resulting in catastrophic loss of water
Invention fail!
They would drown.
Now, baby sharks....
Sebum is the stuff that, if not properly emitted by your skin, can form a sebaceous cyst. They're pretty disgusting to drain, although sometimes doctors will just surgically remove the whole offending gland.
If you want to be grossed out, have a look:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80740591/ [ebaumsworld.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8fsco3C_Zc [youtube.com]
BTW, don't pop them yourself as you can get dangerous infections of you mess up. Doctors can deal with them really easily, so it's worth it to go to one if you can when y
... until you realize you'll still have to send someone under the hull to make sure your opponent hasn't ice-picked a towel to your keel.
Wouldn't that save more fuel in something other than a *sail*-boat?!
... trying to replicate the skin of marine animals to produce a slippery hull
So it's back to Whale Oil is it? Queequeg [wikipedia.org] will be pleased.
Sea-faring vessels are a major contributor of greenhouse gas production due to a deficit in international laws and inherent inefficiencies at sea, such as barnacle build-up on hulls.
Sea-faring vessels are the single most efficient way of transporting goods we have. The reason they're a big contributor of greenhouse gas production is that our global economy requires that a lot of goods are transported around the world. Try transporting thousands of containers across thousands of miles by truck (please, don't actually try this, it's bad for the environment).
The IMO [imo.org] (wikipedia [wikipedia.org]) is one of the most widely acknowledged international authorities on anything. They've made a lot of internationally respected laws, improving sea transport on many levels, including the environmental effects.
It's true that hull fouling is a problem for ships. It's also true that many (especially large) ships burn Heavy Fuel Oil (HFO), which contains a lot of pollutants (like sulfur) and isn't as clean as, say, diesel oil. It's also true that ships burn a lot of HFO, and it's true that ships further pollute the seas by dumping garbage overboard.
However, while the amounts of HFO burned by, say, the Emma Maersk [wikipedia.org], are enormous (about 300 metric tonnes per day at full operation), this is almost nothing when compared to trucks. Assuming 300mt/day at a cruise speed of 25 knots (over 45km/h), that equates to roughly 30 tonnes per 100 km. A semi-trailer truck pulling two TEU containers [wikipedia.org] runs at around 30 liter per 100 km (that's around 8 mpg, anyone that can confirm this number?). This means the Emma Maersk, carrying 14000 TEU, uses 1000 times as much fuel as a truck carrying 2 TEU, which makes this ship about 7 times as fuel efficient as trucks.
And another thing: with HFO costing 300-400 dollars per metric ton, the Emma Maersk burns up about 100,000 dollars per day when running at full capacity (this almost never happens, especially now with the economic crisis, but bear with me). That's about 3 million dollars a month in fuel. The Emma Maersk is crewed by a minimum of 13 seafarers, but let's take 20 for easier calculations, since it's probably closer to reality anyway. Suppose each of those 20 people earn 10,000 dollars a month (which is a lot - maybe the Captain, Chief Officer and Chief Engineer make this much... just maybe). That means total crewing costs for this ship would be 200,000 dollars a month, with fuel costs 15 times higher. What I'm trying to say here is this: it's in the companies' best interest to improve their fuel economy. A 7% increase in fuel efficiency would save them more money than not having to pay the crew. I'm fairly certain there are no cheap and easy ways to drastically reduce fuel usage, or they would have thought of it by now.
All of this is not to say that there isn't room for improvement in the maritime transportation business, far from it. This research and other research like it can and will do great things for the shipping industry and the environment. I just didn't like how the summary made the industry the bad guy here.
P.S. If you want to read more about the IMO's actions on air pollution: go nuts [imo.org].
I'm fairly certain there are no cheap and easy ways to drastically reduce fuel usage, or they would have thought of it by now.
They thought of it a looooong time ago. Time to start using it again!:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/22/2143897.htm [abc.net.au]
Species travels to new location on it's own, on another animal, on a boat, truck, or whatever.
Species takes root and kicks ass. Weaker species die out. It's just nature doing its thing. I think Disney wrote a song about it.
What you're preaching is segregation.
They've banned tributyltin? We were supposed to haul out my Mom's boat last year. Snooze, you lose.
Sea-faring vessels are a major contributor of greenhouse gas production due to a deficit in international laws [...] toxic to marine animals and thus outlawed by several nations
It seems, that when it really matters, national laws banning undesirable practices are quite effective...
A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer.
The Stars and Stripes design was to use microscopic V-grooves alongside
Yeahbut, leave that expensive, micro-grooved hull sitting in sea water for a year or two and see what the barnacle buildup looks like.
On the other hand, rule 53 doesn't apply to cargo ships. Anything that doesn't poison the fish is fair game.
But as always, rule 34 does apply.
Has anyone tried adding the well-known Microban additives to marine paints?
TFA states that barnacle infestation begins with filming of bacteria on the hull, followed by algea eating the bacteria, then barnacles feeding on the algea.
Some Microban additives puncture bacteria and hence kill them. They are used in kitchen and medical equipment and institutional wall paints. Why not attack the root of the food chain rather than the top rung?
Microban won't hold up in the ocean for more than a few hours.
"or through the nano-molecular arrangement of their skin" should be "or through their skin".
Oh wait, we talked about pores already?
The entire sentence should be dropped.
Not everything has to be nano, cyber, 2.0, cloud-based, or other such bullshit, kids.
I am patenting Nano-bullshit.
In the December 2007 edition of Practical Boat Owner, the editor Sarah Norbury extolls the virtues of Coppercoat after a 14-year test on her family boat, a Starlight 39. She writes: "Our experience with Coppercoat has been fantastic. In all the 14 years we've never had a barnacle, seaweed, nothing.... The original claim for our Coppercoat was that it would last 10 years and many people were sceptical. Our test proves the doubters wrong."
I guess good news travels slowly.
Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.


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Finance example for a MINI Cooper D Clubman
You may drive up to 8,000 miles per year, any excess mileage will incur a charge of 7.41 pence per mile.
Your initial rental in the first month will be £1,554.00 with 35 further monthly rentals of £259.00.
At the end of the agreement you return the vehicle, excess mileage and vehicle condition charges may apply.
Your quote is indicative and may vary if the details of the offer alter before your application for finance.
Fuel Economy Figures
Official Fuel Economy Figures for the MINI Cooper D Clubman: Urban - mpg (4.9 l/100km). Extra Urban - mpg (3.9 l/100km). Combined - mpg (4.1 l/100km). CO2 Emissions 112 g/km.


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THE SQL Server Blog Spot on the Web
I spent many years working for NASA on Oracle databases. At that time, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, spatial indexing was a novel and difficult idea. We worked heavily on the notion and, with significant help from Oracle, enabled our databases to store specially designed datatypes for spatial data.
Microsoft is researching similar or even greater capabilities: http://research.microsoft.com/research/pubs/view.aspx?msr_tr_id=MSR-TR-2005-122
At first, it wasn't immediately obvious to me who might want to store spatial data except perhaps an organization like NASA. But over the years, I grew to understand that many organizations the work with important data elements that are fixed in time and space (e.f. oil exploration, mining operations, real estate applications) can benefit.
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Hi Kevin,
Unfortunately, it's not "real" spatial indexing, but rather normal indexing of specially computed values that can be used to help with spatial. It's an evolutionary step at best.
I would really love to see new tree types in SQL Server such as R Trees and Quad Trees, but the SQL Server team does not seem to share my enthusiasm for using anything other than a B*Tree.
Hi Adam,
Ah - good point. You only get b-trees with a little extra help for spatial values.
I actually worked for NASA back in the late 80's and earlier 90's when we developed a spatial datatype for Oracle that became part of the product. Since it was developed using public domain (i.e. government) resources, you'll still find all sorts of special licensing disclaimers in the Oracle licenses about the special rights of the US government compared to the public sector.
I don't think that SQL Server has anything close to what we worked into Oracle at that time, now approaching 20 years ago. Yegads!


text:
The Sleepy Eye Public boys basketball team struggled to get anything going on Jan. 17 when it took on Springfield in a Tomahawk Conference match-up.
The Sleepy Eye Public boys basketball team struggled to get anything going on Jan. 17 when it took on Springfield in a Tomahawk Conference match-up.
The Tigers did well on defense, holding back senior Brandon Polesky to just 20 points in the game. Behind him was senior Austin Trebesch, who had a season-high 16 points. But besides Polesky and Trebesch, the rest of the Indians failed to bring in enough points, as Sleepy Eye lost 49-69.
"We got off to a very slow start and never were able to recover," Indians Coach Brian Polesky said. "We need to become more consistent on offense and receive more balanced scoring as we head into the second half of the season."
On a more positive note, Brian Polesky mentioned their rebounds have improved over the past few games. Against Springfield, Polesky recorded 12 rebounds, while Trebesch, Spencer Weicherding, and Ruben Astorga had four apiece. Meanwhile, sophomores Austin Fischer and Isaiah Krumbach combined for 11.
On Jan. 21, Sleepy Eye hosted BOLD where the Warriors won 84-50. It took no time at all for BOLD to gain a big lead in the first half. The Warriors had a clear height advantage, relying on their tall post players to grab rebounds and make shots under the hoop. Meanwhile, the Indians were held to just 20 points in the half as BOLD's physical defense was too much to get by.
The Warriors started the second half with eight unanswered points. Both Brandon Polesky and Weicherding made a few threes to gain back some points, but BOLD responded with several threes of its own after shooting well outside the paint.
Brandon Polesky led Sleepy Eye with 25 points, 12 of which came from threes. He also went 7-7 at the free throw line. Meanwhile, Weicherding added 11 points and Trebesch had nine.
The Indians move to 4-10 on the year. Wabasso leads the Tomahawk Conference with over eight wins.


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BEIRUT — The main Western-backed Syrian opposition will not take part in any peace negotiations with the government until rebels gain the upper hand on the battlefield again, the group's chief said today.
The statement reflected the new reality on the ground, where the forces of President Bashar Assad have been making significant gains against the rebels on several key fronts.
Ahmad al-Jarba, leader of the Syrian National Coalition, said rebels were regrouping after a series of setbacks and predicted they would regain ground in the coming "few weeks."
"We will not go to any negotiations until the Free Army and revolutionary forces are strong on the ground and cohesive as they were eight months ago," he said in comments made to the Qatari news agency while on a visit to Doha.
His comments coincided with a new assault by Syrian government forces to regain control of a northern village that was the site of an alleged chemical weapons attack earlier this year, activists said.
The push on Khan al-Assal, a village on the southwestern outskirts of the embattled city of Aleppo, comes more than a week after it was captured by the rebels.
That was a rare battlefield success for the rebels after they suffered two major setbacks during a wide-ranging government offensive in central Syria. In June, Assad's army recaptured the strategic town of Qusair near the Lebanese border, and this week, government troops took control of a district in the city of Homs that had long been an opposition stronghold.
The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said 150 government soldiers were killed as Khan al-Assal fell to the rebels. The Observatory said the army attacked rebel positions today outside the village after bringing in reinforcements.
Al-Jarba said Free Syrian Army rebels have started to "regroup and redeploy."
"The FSA will succeed within the coming few weeks in gaining control of Horan (southern Syria), the Damascus suburbs, Aleppo and Idlib in the north and east," al-Jarba said.
The basis of his prediction was not clear.
The United States, which supports the opposition, and Russia, which backs the Assad government, are trying to convene a conference in Geneva to get both sides to implement a plan adopted in the Swiss city a year ago. It calls for the establishment of a transitional governing body vested with full executive powers.
Last week, al-Jarba told the U.N. Security Council that his group is ready to attend a peace conference if the Syrian government makes a commitment to implement a plan that requires it to hand over power to a transitional government.
But in his comments today, he reversed that position, saying the Coalition would not take part before the situation on the ground changes in favor of the rebels.
Khan al-Assal, where Assad's troops were on the offensive today, was the scene of a purported chemical attack on March 19 that killed at least 30 people. Assad's regime and the rebels have blamed each other for that attack.
Last week, the government indicated it agreed with a U.N. team on terms of an investigation into chemical attacks. It was the first time U.N. weapons experts had visited Damascus since allegations emerged about use of chemical agents.
Khan al-Assal was under government control in March, but was captured by the rebels on July 22. Even if the U.N. team is granted access to the village, it may be difficult to find evidence from the March attack because so much time has passed.
Earlier this month, the U.N. said it has received 13 reports of alleged chemical weapons use in Syria.
At the Vatican, Pope Francis prayed today for a priest missing in Syria during a Mass with fellow Jesuits in Rome's Church of Jesus. Activists say Paolo Dall'Oglio, an Italian Jesuit priest, went missing two days ago while on a trip to the rebel-held northeastern city of Raqqa. Dall'Oglio is an Assad opponent who was expelled last year from Syria, where he had lived for 30 years.
He reportedly went to Raqqa to meet with al-Qaida-linked militants there.
The Rev. Federico Lombardi, a Vatican spokesman, said that the Holy See is closely monitoring for any information about the whereabouts of Dall'Oglio.
"If Father Dall'Oglio is working on initiatives for the good, let's hope he completes them. We are close to him spiritually," Lombardi told journalists at the Vatican.
Also today, an international media watchdog condemned the abduction of three employees of Orient TV, a Syrian opposition-linked satellite channel, calling on their captors to immediately release them.
Reporter Obeida Batal, soundman Hosam Nizam al-Dine and technician Aboud al-Atik were kidnapped July 25 after an attack on the Orient TV office in Tel Rifaat, a town 40 kilometers (25 miles) north of Aleppo, the advocacy group Reporters Without Borders said in a statement.
Their abduction came a day after a Polish journalist, Marcin Suder, was taken hostage in Saraqeb, in the northwestern province of Idlib.
In another development, Iran announced it will provide Damascus with a $3.6 billion credit line for buying oil, according to a report late Tuesday by state news service SANA. Iran is a close ally of Assad.
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I always thought geeks loved to play with arcane tech, making this an ideal story.
We do, but that's what used arcane tech is for. You see the huge deal about this being an unopened box? It's now no longer an unopened box, and he ruined a perfectly good collectible.
Or maybe he's attempting to combat the idea that something should have greatly increased value just because nobody ever bothered to use it before.
Anyone trying to do that fails by definition. Things have value because people give it value, not through decision by committee.
Basically, even if you don't think it makes sense that "something should have greatly increased value just because nobody ever bothered to use it before" the fact that other people are actually willing to pay more because nobody ever bothered to use it before is enough reason for you not to use it. You can sell it to those people for the price they are willing to pay and maximize
No, it is completely logical if the utility that you gain by enjoying the use of the item exceeds the utility you would have gotten from the money gained by auctioning it to the highest bidder.
No, it is completely logical if the utility that you gain by enjoying the use of the item exceeds the utility you would have gotten from the money gained by auctioning it to the highest bidder.
Not really. You can sell to the highest bidder, buy a cheaper used product, and still get all the enjoyment of using it AS well as getting a profit. Win-win.
If you're going to argue that there's a greater utility to opening the box and using the new product, then you are admitting that the unopened box is worth more.
Thinking like this (maximizing profit, despite having enough already) is what killed our economy.
Yes, but it also birthed it.
If you're going to argue that there's a greater utility to opening the box and using the new product, then you are admitting that the unopened box is worth more.
Well, if you read the article, the author clearly gained enjoyment from opening the box:
"It's incredibly satisfying to open up product packaging sealed some 25 years before. Like bubbles of atmospheric gas encased in Cretaceous amber, there's authentic 1984 Atari factory air trapped inside every box. They say that if you twist your nose just right during a full moon, you can even smell a hint of Nolan Bushnell's Old Spice."
It's also possible that the author made more money by writing and publishing his
Then why do people like buying new cars? Using a new device can be better than using a well-worn device.
Or to put it another way, "They just don't make 'em like that anymore."
How could you pass up on the 1969 427 Stingray? They just don't make them like that anymore....
I did drive an 03 Corvette and I will say that they are very, very nice and pretty quick off the line nothing really beats a classic. Lots of parts still around for those early muscle cars and the best part is that you don't have to deal with fancy complicated parts breaking like electronic ignition, fuel injection, ABS, etc. You just need an air gun, a good set of sockets and some pretty deep pockets.
Because it's a status symbol.
Hey, wait, are we talking about tulips [wikipedia.org]?
You know, oddly enough, making teh bux isn't the most important thing in life. If I get my hands on a new-in-box peripheral for one of my older computers, screw resale. I'm opening the box, hooking it up, and using it. That's the real value.
Frankly, the entire "minty-mint" collection mania is pathological. The perceived sale value boils down to "how much can I fleece a clueless schlub for?". And that's illogical.
Hey, wait, are we talking about tulips [wikipedia.org]?
Not exactly. It's not that there's a bubble that inflates the price of the unopened peripheral due to speculation. It's that the unopened box is always demonstrably worth more than the opened box. It's a limited supply thing. There are less unopened tablets then there are open ones. By opening up you are literally removing value.
You know, oddly enough, making teh bux isn't the most important thing in life. If I get my hands on a new-in-box peripheral for one of my older computers, screw resale. I'm opening the box, hooking it up, and using it. That's the real value.
Do you not see the flaw in your reasoning, though? If the real value to you is in the use of the tablet, then you wouldn't mind buying an used one that does the same thing. H
This is clearly a clash of value systems. And, although my value are mostly utilitarian, that's not consistently so. My GP comment has a clue to the inconsistency: "older systems". Yup, I collect old personal computers and software. That's not rational from a pragmatic POV. But, OTOH, I actually use them. I wouldn't pay collector NIB NOS prices for, say, an Amiga 1000. (Pretend such a thing could legitimately be found. Besides, I still have mine from 1986.)
Again, if you or another collector gets a warm fuzzy feeling looking at your sealed 1977 Kenner Luke Skywalker figure, great. Me, I'd wanna play with the thing.
So, in the realm of serendipitous discoveries of neat old tech toys: If I find a nifty piece of retrotech that I can play with, at a price I consider reasonable solely on the "play" value, I'm buying. And using. If that destroys it from your perspective, so be it. I'm getting what I value out of it. If you want it, for whatever your reasons, you'd better find it first.
"how much can I fleece a clueless schlub for?"
How dare you denigrate the Congressional Credo!
Frankly, the entire "minty-mint" collection mania is pathological. The perceived sale value boils down to "how much can I fleece a clueless schlub for?". And that's illogical.
That is what socialists call subjective valuation. It's a natural instinctive behavior for all mammals, and it's at the core of capitalism; capitalism wouldn't be what it is without it, concentration of wealth and all. Socialists identify it as a key ethical failing of all human economies, and set voluntary adoption of objective valuation of goods AND labor as a primary goal of a cooperative, rather than competitive, economic system. We haven't evolved to a point yet where a pure socialist economy is pos
What is the objective value of fresh water?
One value, and it has to be the same for a village on the edge of a desert as it is for survivors of a shipwreck in an overloaded lifeboat in the middle of Lake Superior.
Objective value is a destructive myth.
Or maybe he's attempting to combat the idea that something should have greatly increased value just because nobody ever bothered to use it before.
Damnit, I already unboxed the Zune-demo I got from work...
Then you thought wrong, Yay you managed to plug-in and use something from 1984.. Congrats... Errr?
I always thought geeks loved to play with arcane tech, making this an ideal story.
Some do. Some don't. I fall into the don't category. I guess I'm not very sentimental. I love learning about history of it and admire how clever some of the solutions were in the face of the limitations of the day. There are some wonderful lessons to be learned. But I'm also old enough to have used some pretty arcane tech (by IT standards anyway) and I remember it's limitations well. There are very good reasons we don't use it anymore.
Personally it's not the tech but the information that I worry about. Old formats that we have lost the ability to read. The hardware exists to communicate and facilitate information. We can create new hardware but we can't always create new information.
That belongs in a museum!
We have top men working on it now.
Is Indy a pushing robot now? No wonder Indy 4 movie was awful. [grin]
This sort of story isn't helping with changing perception of geeks, is it?
Should geeks really care about how people perceive them? If that were the case I would think we would be going out of our way to not be seen as geeks in the first place. When you are lucky enough to find something that is a delight, rejoice in it and screw what people think...
I'm using my 1984 Atari Touch Tablet you insensitive clod; one 535 x 383 resolution picture per page is a lot to ask for.
All but one comment on the site itself about the article were bitching about that. I, like many of the posters there, decided to forgo pages 2-14.
True, they put adseeds in the ground in the beginning of autumn and harvest them late junuary. My great-great uncle had an adfarm and since he lived in a small village in the proximity of my aunt I used to pass his farm. Every winter I look and feel an inner sense of joy looking at huge tracts of fully-grown ads.
I stopped at page 3. Oh a picture of the back of the box and 2 sentences. Wow journalism at its finest!
I happen to RTFAs, but I can't stand the image-and-a-few-sentences-per-page format. Especially when each page has to load a bunch of pictures and javascript. I can stand it when these slideshows open up a new window with only the slideshow's content, but this is too annoying.
Now your problem is solved, as long as developers use increasing page numbers as their way to separate paged content.
Yeah. Exactly what I was looking for. An extension to Firefox that doesn't work with Firefox 3 and hasn't been actively worked on since 2006. Witness the power of open source!
Not only is the content distributed among 14 pages in bite-size pieces, but those pieces take up roughly 1/72nd of the page space allocated. Along with the much-lamented dilution of content across excessive pages, do advertisers realize that their paid-for links may be up to 10 page-downs below the article?
So do what I do since I hate slides too... Click on the each page number into tabs in background. Then, use ctrl-w to close each one when done.
Instead of annoying slides with ads, how about making subscription accounts that show all pictures in one page and no ads? I am sure some people would willing to pay for that.
But the software was pretty decent for 1984, and I considered myself proud to have known the Touch Tablet in its authentic Atari glory.
He forgot to mention how completely worthless it is now and was the day it was made.
When you come across a 1984 Atari Touch Tablet for sale cheap--in the original, unopened box--it would be a crime against computer history not to buy it, open it, install it, and use it, and to document the whole process with photos and commentary.
Can you hear it? Thousands of collector's voices screaming in mutual anguish.
They sure don't make 'em like they used to. None of my 3.5" floppies would survive more than a couple of formats, and I'd be lucky to be able to read them on more than, what, 3 or 4 different machines.
The software wasn't on floppies. It was on cartridge.
A true geek would have opened the cartridge to see if it contained UV EPROMs or proper ROMs. EPROMs still working after 24 years would be fairly impressive, too...
The touch tablet led to me creating the first decent computer art I ever did as a kid. I even used it with a drawing program that I wrote in Atari BASIC. Wow. Feeling old now. I hate nostalgia stories like this.
Do you remember the KoalaPad? That's what I had on my Apple
I just bought a Koala and a Commodore 64 on eBay this week. I've been feeling nostalgic of late, and started making chiptunes using VICE and GoatTracker (a SID composition tool for Linux and Windows), and got to thinking that I'd enjoy tinkering with the real thing. Saw the Koala going for like eight bucks on eBay and couldn't resist.
Same memory came back to me, but it was with a TRS-80 coco and its touch tablet, which was really just a grid of buttons. Ahhh, memories.
...opening a sealed original package. Cut its value on the collectibles market by 50%, easy.
The Computer History Museum has one of these [computerhistory.org] but it is not in original packaging. Original packaging, even when opened, greatly adds to the historic, research (and sale) value.
None, of course, unless we're going to pretend there's some archaeology-grade research activity going on in computer museum collections. And even that analogy is faulty; I don't believe that Egyptologists even fantasize about finding 9th Dynasty new-old stock.
Naah, this is just collector angst. Apparently, they think a sealed box gathering dust has greater utility than, say, the actual utility of the artifact in question.
Is this kind of thing really in demand by anyone though? I have a NIB Atari 5200 Trakball from 1983 [atarimagazines.com]. That's earlier than the peripheral in this article. Am I sitting on a gem that deserves to be preserved for future generations? What is the privilege of taking care of this artifact worth? Anyone out there want to buy it and preserve it? Or should I open it up and get on the front page of
I've been shopping for old computer crap on eBay lately (for nostalgia rather than collectibility), and I suspect your 1983 NIB Atari 5200 trackball would bring ten, maybe fifteen bucks (but I haven't been shopping for Atari game gear, so I'm really guessing). If ten or fifteen bucks, and reclaiming the space it takes up in your house, is worth more than the trackball to you, you should sell it. Part of the fun of these old machines and things is that they are dramatically cheaper than when we were kids. We couldn't have every cool peripheral and game back then, because it would have been cost prohibitive. Today, with stuff going for tens of dollars, even things that were very expensive back then, we can pick up just about anything we like and satisfy those old lingering curiosities. And, then, when we get bored with it...pass it on to someone else at about the same low price.
There needs to be more warning that it's one of those paragraph per page
advertising sites. I looked at the first page and then came back to slashdot.
There needs to be more warning
about posts that have forced
carriage returns for no reason
I looked at the first page and then came back to slashdot.
Why leave in the first place?
My computer teacher in the early 80's had a weird name for touch panels-something like Koala pad? Does anyone remember that?
>Koala pad? Does anyone remember that?
Sure. It was supposedly "low cost" but when we were working for $3.35/hr, nothing was low cost. Later, I got my hands on an X-Pad and a TRS-80 Color Computer - that was pretty neat. I wasn't until 2008 that I ever had another tablet, a Wacom Bamboo.
Yes, it was part of the Koala paint package. My father had it for the Atari 400. The hardware had a touch pad, two large buttons, and a stylus.
He taught me how to use it; explaining that drawing a line was like stretching a rubber band. Because of his analogy, i was always afraid to make the lines too long for fear they would snap.
Sounds like it was actually the name of a product back then, from 1984. Check out Wikipedia regarding it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KoalaPad/Painter [wikipedia.org]
I also remember hearing it called that.
I do not wish to smell either one.
Show me a blog or article walking through a hack adapting the device for use under modern PC hardware and I'll look more closely. This is just "retro computing" and while it is a little interesting, it isn't THAT interesting. We get it. In the old days, we thought it was awesome and now it looks worse than pathetic.
Wire up a USB connector and write a driver to support it under Mac OSX, Linux and Windows.
Wire up a USB connector and write a driver to support it under Mac OSX, Linux and Windows.
It can be done. The Touch Tablet shows up as a pair of paddle controllers. The following device will therefore cause it to show up as two joystick axes:
http://www.atariage.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=267 [atariage.com]
1. Buy old computer peripheral SIB (Still in box)
2. Document opening and usage
3. Place on website w/ ads and promote
4. Get Slashdotted so that works still appear but pictures (and ads!) don't
6. Profit
That's the outcry of collectors all over the planet crying over the opening of a 25 year old box.
Real cruelty would have been to invite them for the grand opening. I would have paid to see a video of their reaction.
http://technologizer.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/atari_tablet_XX.jpg?w=535&h=361 [wordpress.com]
I just bought one of these from B&C ComputerVision. It was also new-in-box, and is a very cool little device. My 2yo son likes having me draw things (usually octopuses) on our big TV. No Wacom drivers or X11 config to mess with. Don't even need to wait for it to boot up. Just click the power switch and you're drawing about 2 seconds later.
"There is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress." -- Mark Twain


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Difference between revisions of "Bowie"
Revision as of 02:15, 18 January 2012
Bowie is a city in Maryland.
Bowie is a suburban bedroom community of Washington, D.C.. While Bowie's origins are as a 19th-century railroad town, much of the city consists of ranch and cape cod homes built in the 1960s and 1970s as a planned community by Levitt. Lately, Bowie has grown by annexing various development that have sprouted up around the city's edge since the mid-1980s.
Get in
By plane
By train
The MARC train system provides inexpensive service between Baltimore and Washington, D.C.. It is a commuter system that runs Monday-Friday only. Use the Penn Line and exit at Bowie State University.
By bus
Metrobus service to Bowie is available from the New Carrollton Metro station.
Get around
While navigating Bowie by foot seems unlikely, there are a few options to the inevitable auto-driven culture of the suburbs.
By bike
The WB&A Trail cuts through the northern part of Bowie, and various other networks of bike paths and on-street bike routes help make a bicycle a reasonable way to get around town. Unfortunately, Route 50 bisects town and has few bike-friendly crossings.
Bowie has a variety of malls, but little that's likely to pique the interest of the picky shopper. Two of the malls are Bowie Town Center and Free State Mall. Some of the antique shops in Old Town may be worth your time.
People in Bowie usually head to Washington, D.C., Baltimore, or Annapolis for nightlife. There are no noteworthy bars or clubs in Bowie.
Get out


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Weekend Reading: James Bond, Wally Wood, Stan Lee and Frank Frazetta
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, DC Comics, Independent,
It's old-school comic book week for the past several days as Wally Wood, Frank Frazetta, Stan Lee and that crazy caveman Alley Oop pop up. If that's not all, Evan Dorkin opened up an excellent thread on health insurance and freelance artists that's must read for anyone who's ever seen a 1099 form.
Wally Wood: Gold Key Stories posts a complete issue of M.A.R.S. Patrol Total War, with art by the great Wally Wood. Fanboys drool over this kind of stuff, and I'm not ashamed to say I'm one of them.
Frank Frazetta: A backhoe, a museum and millions of dollars worth of original art add up to a very sad family tragedy for the great artist. Heidi MacDonald over at The Beat has been on top of the story here and here and that'll get you started. Be sure to follow through and read all the comments and updates.
Free Content: Xark has a great take on why newspapers complain so much about the online readership who wants it for free, but it's really diners and coffee-sippers who are the real content thieves who don't pay for what they read.
Click to continue reading Weekend Reading: James Bond, Wally Wood, Stan Lee and Frank Frazetta
Weekend Reading: Atlas/Seaboard, Gene Deitch and Jonny Quest
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Independent, Marvel Comics,
Lots of great stuff all over the internet this week, including a nice piece on Martin Goodman's Atlas/Seaboard comics of the mid-1970s, a lost cartoon by Gene Deitch and a little piece of Jonny Quest/James Bond trivia. Let's click:
Atlas/Seaboard: If you remember Howard Chaykin's The Scorpion, Larry Hama's Wulf The Barbarian or Steve Ditko's Tarantula, then you're old. And that means you remember the Atlas/Seaboard comics that Martin Goodman published after Cadence bought him out from Marvel back in the 1970s. What you may not know is that their comics were also published in Australia. Oh Danny Boy has a detailed and well-illustrated account of their adventure down under.
Gene Deitch: Over at Cartoon Brew, Jerry Beck posts a note from acclaimed animation director Gene Deitch about his first (and lost) animated cartoon. It starred Howdy Doody, and the cartoon so enraged Buffalo Bob Smith that he had it destroyed.
John Kricfalusi: Over at John K Stuff, the animator has a hilarious post about amateur artwork and some ideas about how not-yet-professionals can still find outlets for their art.
Tom Richmond: The great MAD Magazine artist and caricaturist recently remodeled his studio and put up before and after pictures. We should all work in such a great environment. Warning: safe-for-work shelf porn ahead.
Click to continue reading Weekend Reading: Atlas/Seaboard, Gene Deitch and Jonny Quest
Captain Swing by Warren Ellis & Raulo Caceres
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Independent,
Yo-ho-ho. If you love your pirates and you're a little bit burned out by Johnny Depp and the many, many Pirates of the Caribbean, you might be looking for something a little different in the "pirate" category. If you can expand your definition to include Bow Street Runners, flintlocks, and "flying things that aren't supposed to fly?" then February 2010 has something for you. It's the start of a new four-issue mini-series by Warren Ellis (Supergod; No Hero) and Raulo Caceres (Gravel; Crecy) from Avatar called Captain Swing And The Electrical Pirates of Cindery Island.
Described as "an electrical romance of a pirate utopia thwarted," Captain Swing is set in London, 1830. That would be the Warren Ellis London of 1830 in which copper Charlie Gravel starts seeing things, including the legendary Spring-Heeled Jack. I love the Bow Street Runners. They figure prominently in the mystery novels of Bruce Alexander (Blind Justice) and Richard Falkirk (Blackstone), and I'm curious to see what this new incarnation will be like.
This is an Avatar book, so expect some cover variants and a retailer incentive, but best of all, it's a new Ellis mini-series and I'm looking forward to it.
[Artwork: One of the covers to Captain Swing And The Electrical Pirates of Cindery Island, © Warren Ellis]
Read More | Avatar Press
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VIDEO: Alan Moore Rocks Out With Retro Spankees
Posted by Robin Paulson Categories: DC Comics, Independent,
Even though he has a musical history, it's quite easy to forget with all of the memorable novels and comic books Alan Moore has written. Well, now we've got a video to help us not forget!
At a launch party for his latest fanzine, Dodgem Logic, Moore jumped on stage with a band featured on the CD accompanying the magazine, the Retro Spankees. Moore was quick with his literary style in the intro to one of the songs: "This next number, it's about caring… about people. It's about caring about people so that you want to… protect them. It's about caring about people so that you want to protect them by unleashing a storm of malefic evil presences from the pit of Hell against anybody who is distressing you. This is to everybody—it's called 'Jonny Fortunate.'"
Check out another performance after the break!
Click to continue reading VIDEO: Alan Moore Rocks Out With Retro Spankees
Read More | Bleeding Cool
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ADAIRSVILLE, Ga. (AP) -- There are reports of people trapped in homes and businesses, after a massive storm system that's been raking the Southeast pounded the Georgia town of Adairsville, about 60 miles northwest of Atlanta.
Video showed a funnel cloud roaring through the downtown area, flipping cars and demolishing a home. Large sections of a manufacturing plant appeared to be destroyed.
Interstate 75 is closed in both directions, after the storm flipped cars onto their roofs and tossed them onto the shoulder.
At least one person is confirmed dead in the town. A fire chief says the body was found amid the storm damage. The same system was also blamed for a death in Tennessee.
Officials confirm that a tornado touched down in the Tennessee community of Mount Juliet, leaving a path of damage about 150 yards wide.
(Copyright 2013 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Previous Story
A winter storm has been ripping through the nation's midsection, with thunderstorms, damaging winds and possible tornadoes.
One person was struck by lightning and injured in Arkansas, where there are downed trees and scattered power outages. Entergy Arkansas says at least 9,000 homes and businesses lost electricity in several communities, including in and around Little Rock.
Forecasters say they're checking reports of possible twisters in the state -- one near Little Rock and two in northwestern Arkansas.
Tennessee and Mississippi emergency officials also warned residents about severe weather overnight.


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NEW DELHI — The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) plans to support its indigenous space technology industry to make launch vehicles and communication satellites.
"If industry takes up launch vehicles and satellites through a consortium and [working] with ISRO, it will benefit all of us in several ways. ISRO could focus on more challenging tasks," according to ISRO chief K. Radhakrishnan.
Since space missions have become a lucrative business for private industry, and in order to meet the huge demand for satellite services, "in the next two years, we need to work the with industry on this in a mission mode and show the new face of Indian space industry," he says.
"ISRO would like to sit on one side and look at Indian Space Industry Consortia [to] take leadership in niche areas of operational and launch vehicle systems. If we fail to move into such a production regime now, we will feel the pinch in the next decade," Radhakrishnan said recently.
ISRO has sketched out future scenarios and concluded that India's operational launch vehicles — currently the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle and in the future the Geostationary Satellite Launch Vehicle or GSLV-Mk III — could be produced by Indian industry.
"In the future, operational launch vehicles such as the PSLVs, GSLVs and GSLV Mark III could be produced by the industry, starting from basic raw materials to actual launch," he says.
Radhakrishnan suggests studying the relationships between European and U.S. space agencies and their respective supporting industries.
"There are 20 big companies in the EADS consortium and in the U.S., NASA has a large number of industries connected to space technology working with it," Radhakrishnan says.
"This has led them to achieve big-time success. We can also achieve this with active participation of the industry, at least to a smaller extent," he says.
The national space agency and the Confederation of Indian Industry are already in talks to kick-start intensive industry participation in space technology.
Radhakrishnan says he expects several industry consortia to emerge in the country in the next two years to make raw materials, components and subsystems for space hardware.
With another 10 missions lined up until September 2013, Radhakrishnan says ISRO and the Indian industry consortia can perform that many missions in a year. "We are looking at a target of 10 to 12 missions a year," he says.
ISRO expects to launch 60 space missions over the next five year.


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SwingLifeStyle Free Erotic Stories are written and submitted by our members Sit back and enjoy "Superbowl Party".
- Male Dominant Stories : Superbowl Party
Pages: 1
Last year was no different than any other so I thought. All of my husbands buddies started to show up hours before the game started. I knew that it would be like every other year i would turn into a waitress getting beer and getting felt up after halftime by eevery drunk guy there, little did I know what this superbowl would hold for me. First I would like to say me and my husband are in the swinger lifestyle so when he ask how would I like to be the entertainment. I love to be the center of attention so I said sure, he told me to get undressed a lay on the bed, he tied me spread eagle on the bed and put a blind fold on me.He told me he was going to let the guys look at me why they went thru our bedroom to the bathroom, well they did more than look, before long I hear the bedroom door open and all of the sudden I felt a dick press against my lips I thought at first it was my husband, I knew right away it was a different dick pushing in so far I gagged, then he pulled it out, then the bed moved some and he rammed his dick in balls deep and fucked me so hard I lost my breath. He pulled out and then I felt his cum squirt all over my tits and the quiet for a few minutes. I was then startled by someone wiping my tits clean and once again a dick was pressinto my mouth a much thicker dick once it was hard I could barely fit it in my mouth, he pulled out climbed on top of me and once again I was slammed so hard I felt as though I would split apart he to pulled out but there was quiet and then a hard dick pryed my mouth open and it was like a firehose of hot lava into my mouth and throat there was no way I could take it all and I could feel it dripping down my chin, then it got real hectic I had hands all over me and dicks I every hole I had I was drenched in cum and every hole was numb and sensitve as hell at the same time. when it was all over my husband untied me. I took the blinfold off and there was noone to be seen. I took a long shower cleaned up put a robe on walked in to an empty living room ask my husband who won the superbowl. He said honey its saturday, the superbowl is always on sunday, My question to him was, we are still having the superbowl party tomorrow, He just smiled and said more guys will be here for the game, that was just pre game, I dont know what that means I guess I will know tomorrow
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Skip to comments.Work-Life Balance a Challenge, Says Michelle Obama, But Having White House Staff Helps (BARF)
Posted on 05/08/2009 4:56:10 AM PDT by markomalley
First lady Michelle Obama called her "current life" in the White House "a very blessed situation, because I have what most families don't have -- tons of support all around, not just my mother, but staff and administration. I have a chief of staff and a personal assistant, and everyone needs that."
"Everyone should have a chief of staff and a set of personal assistants," Obama said with a laugh as she spoke before a crowd of business executives meeting today during a "Corporate Voices for Working Families" conference at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington.
(Excerpt) Read more at voices.washingtonpost.com ...
Let them eat cake
- Michelle Obama
BTW, if this has posted already, my apologies. And yes, I did a search before posting.
"Self-Parody: We Haz It!"
"Everyone should have a chief of staff and a set of personal assistants,"
Actually, MeShell, I'd love to have a housekeeper twice a month, but thanks to your husbands spreading MY wealth around, that's not going to happen. I'm glad to hear you enjoy yours on the taxpayer dime though....
What she needs most is a trainer to get rid of the excess luggage.
Man, talk about an "If this were Bush" moment.
MeShell (I love this in another post!) just loves being in the Big House, don't she?
"One income really doesn't always cut it anymore. And that's in my lifetime," Obama said. "In most families, both parents have to work, and even if people want to make the choice to stay home.
I know there are exceptions, but it seems to me that both parents have to work because of the choices they've made: brand new cars, annual trips to Disney World, huge house, big screen TV, the list goes on. Most can make the choice to live more simply and afford to have one parent stay home and raise the kids at least until they're in school.
The video is a must see. Whatever function this is, she is incredibly unprepared...and just rambling The rambled herself into the 'everyone needs that' (i.e. chief of staff) comment, not trying to be funny. The audience had a few nervous chuckles, and then it broke out into laughter.
Only then did MO start to play it off as a joke.
The content of her ramble: she is complaining that only one income is not enough to support a family these days. I brace myself when I say this...this is a logical result of the women's liberation movement. Effectively doubling the workforce has the effect of cutting wages (compared to cost of living). The movement to give women the choice to go to work has taken away the choice of not working for many women.
I'm now putting on some football pads, for the beating I may get.
Not entirely. Housing prices, college costs, etc. have all risen MUCH more than wages over the past 30 years or so. My father was a blue collar worker and my mom didn't work. In 1968 they could afford to buy a house on Long Island, NY on just his salary. The house cost $22,000 and he made a little less than $10,000. Translate that to today. A comparable blue collar wage might be $60,000 (in this area) while a comparable house is close to $400,000. All things being equal, the house should be about twice his salary, as it was back then, or $120,000. You just can't do it on one salary anymore, at least in this area.
I think you're proving my point. If a blue collar job is 60k, multiply it by two. Since most households now have two incomes, housing prices reflect what those families are willing to pay. If you choose to only have one income (as we do), plan on not being able to afford many things - their prices are set by the demand of two income households.
On a brighter note, the percentage of income that families pay for energy (even gasoline) has dropped tremendously since 1968...but of course that is about to change.
To put things more in perspective, if a 22k house in 1968 is now 400k, thats a 7.72% increase in value every year. The blue collar worker is way behind, if he goes from 10k to 60k (4.72% yearly growth). However, if you look at 10k to 120k (where both he and she are now working), its much closer at 6.60% yearly growth in salary. Household incomes aren't falling that far behind (and besides I think people on Long Island make more than 60k)....the household income is now just split between two people.
YEP...what YOU said....my son has supported a wife and four kids for the past 15 years....and he does NOT have a college education....but, they don't buy NEW cars, new furniture, new houses, etc.....
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During my eight years as Governor, we used the Alaska Coastal Management Program (ACMP) to facilitate and effectively promote numerous development projects. Through ACMP, Alaskans were at the table to help government agencies and industries determine how best we could develop Alaska's resources. The program worked well and made sense then. It still makes sense today.
I'm pleased Alaskans have the opportunity to bring back smart coastal development by voting for Ballot Measure #2 in the Primary Election.
In my experience, coastal management was an important part of a successful process during one of Alaska's most active periods of new exploration and increased development of oil and gas. We worked closely with industry and federal agencies in developing the Northstar, Alpine, and Badami fields. For the first time in a generation, we opened millions of acres of federal land in the NPR-A. All of these oil and gas projects and dozens of other projects on the North Slope and Cook Inlet moved forward with full utilization of the coastal management process.
Why? The program was more than local participation. It succeeded because it also coordinated agencies and the permitting process between state and federal government. It gave industry simplified access and accountability. The ACMP was good government and made good sense. It's still a good idea.
Our coastal program didn't help just oil and gas projects. It included the massive development of Dutch Harbor industrial seafood processing facilities, improvements to Southeast fishing facilities, and numerous new mining projects. There were many improvements to urban areas, such as the major renovation of the Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport, significant rebuilding of the Seward highway from Anchorage to Seward and Kenai. All of these important projects were planned and completed through the ACMP.
What did local communities want to negotiate at the table with industry and government agencies? They wanted to protect water quality, ensure adequate safety and cleanup procedures, protect land and ocean wildlife and fish habitat, and provide revenues to mitigate local impacts. They wanted a forum for important community economic and cultural concerns.
These are hardly radical or extreme concepts. Most Alaskans embrace these important development considerations. Alaskans want people at ground zero to have a strong voice. They want locals to help make the case for the best possible resource development in their communities.
The ACMP worked. Local residents and communities participated and their voices were heard. These projects had strong local support and all were developed.
But because of political gridlock in Juneau, the legislature let the ACMP die. We lost an important opportunity to bring communities to the table when industry proposes projects in coastal areas. Losing the ACMP eliminated Alaska's most effective tool to influence federal land and water use decisions.
When Alaska became the only coastal state in America without a coastal management program, we no longer held what other coastal states had – a unique upper hand in dealing with the feds. This is the only national act that requires federal agencies to be consistent with a state program, and we gave it away.
During my administration, the overarching accomplishment of coastal management was to replace litigation and confrontation with communication and negotiation. At the end of the day, the ACMP created a sense of common purpose and empowered local people to be the guardians of promises made. At a time when people are fed up with partisan polarization and political stalemate, we can take an important and positive step away from that sort of divisiveness. We can reinstate a program with has a proven record of accomplishment and moving development forward.
ACMP opponents claim it stops or delays development and that we need fewer regulations and no interference from residents and communities. I know they're wrong and so do several states with no reputation for burdensome regulations or roadblocks to development. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Texas, and Louisiana haven't found the Coastal Management Program an obstruction to development. Neither did Alaska for the 34 years we used the program. Add to this list the entire Eastern and Western seaboards, the Great Lakes states, and Hawaii and we have an overwhelming consensus that coastal management is an effective pro-development tool for state and local control. In the entire Nation, only Alaska has missed the boat.
We can correct that mistake. Look at the facts, not the sales pitches. Stand up for Alaska and positive resource development. Vote yes on Proposition 2.
• Knowles is a former governor of Alaska.