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Monday, February 2, 2009
Comic 538: Insecurity
Hello it is Rob again, just stone cold guest blogging for the week.
In the interests of full disclosure: this one was not bad. I didn't laugh but I read it and was like "okay, kudos, Randall, this isn't horrible."
But then I started thinking about it, because that is kind of a boring post, right? And this comic just lacks verisimilitude. I'm not really sure what he's trying to say here. Is he suggesting that cyber encryption is useless because nobody will ever care about your secrets? Or that it's useless because you can still just beat those secrets out of somebody? Or that that's the modus operandi of people who want to break into computers? Or that people who encrypt their data are deluded?
But okay, there's lots of scenarios in which cybercrime happens. Obviously some are simpler than others--the dude who broke into Sarah Palin's emails just guessed her password question. But some people try harder. I mean, if you really want someone's data, and you know how to break in. I can't envision a scenario in which you would just drug and beat someone for their data, though. That's something random criminals do. Usually data theft is something you don't want them to be aware of ahead of time.
Maybe he's trying to say people go to unnecessary lengths for good encryption? But none of the crypto-geeks I know go very far. And the point, as far as they're concerned, is that it's easier to encrypt than decrypt.
And the more I think about it the more I end up thinking 'uh, Randall, this just isn't funny.' But it's not saying anything either.
21 comments:
- DoubleBlackbirdFebruary 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Is 'drug him and hit him with this $5 wrench' a reference to something? Because I honestly can't think of a reason why Thug A would feel the need to mention the price of the wrench.ReplyDelete
OH MY GOD THAT IS SO META <3 RANDALLReplyDelete
I think he was just comparing the price of the wrench to the hypothetical "million-dollar cluster" referenced in the first panel.ReplyDelete
- DoubleBlackbirdFebruary 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM
That certainly makes sense. But the joke in the alt-text is about how the price is wrong, so I still think Thug A is aware that he is in a comic. He knows that by saying an incorrect price he can set up a cracking alt-text gag that will, like the wrench, knock 'em dead.ReplyDelete
We need to see more of Thug A.
I have a couple of friends who love the heck out of high-grade computer security, and the punchline at the end of every encryption description they give me is, "What's so important on your laptop that you feel the need to go this far?" Protect your information, certainly, but if you're not trafficking CIA documents between secret agents, your laptop generally isn't a target. Especially when it doesn't even leave the house.ReplyDelete
THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW. And Randall's joke works now. Could do without the alt-text wrench joke, but that's peanuts.
That makes two consecutive xkcd's that don't suck! Place your bets: is Randall due for a pop culture or gender joke?
Thomas: I actually don't feel that super high-grade encryption is too ridiculous. But I have a stalker. I do not want her anywhere near my data.ReplyDelete
I like this one, too. Third's gonna be 4chan humor. I'm sure of that.
A bit of chloroform and a five USD wrench is cheaper than an NSA computer cluster, that's all.
Saying the price of that wrench out loud makes us think "Oh, Randal! a five USD wrench *is* cheaper than NSA's computer farms."
That's the nature of fictional characters - they say the obvious for the maximisation of our enjoyment. Take James Bond villains - they explain to us dumb viewers their plans through the speech they make to the strapped James Bond.
I like this comic, but... you just have to remember who's your adversary. The regular "nerd" has nothing to worry about the KGB or the Mafia. If a nerd wants to hide stuff from the police, which abides the law and does not torture people, then they can hide their stuff with truecrypt's plausible deniability features or whatever.
Guys, I just wonder if Randal has business with the mafia. If not, then I guess This how he should have made it <- A PICTURE OF AN EDITED XKCD#538 STRIP!
- SubcultureFebruary 2, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Instead of just labeling two panels, "A Crypto Nerd's Imagination" and "What Would Actually Happen" Randall could have actually used the the disparity as his joke.ReplyDelete
But then he would have to get off his lazy ass and draw more than two panels. Heaven forfend!
- CuddlefishFebruary 2, 2009 at 5:43 PM
LOL CRYPTOReplyDelete
Subculture has the right idea. One long panel would have worked, with stickman's imagined scenario in a thought bubble to the left, stickman in the center, and the actual crooks around the corner to the right.ReplyDelete
No punchline explanation required!
Also, kudos to Rob for the timely update.
So this one was actually good. That makes 3 in a row that doesn't suck.ReplyDelete
- SubcultureFebruary 2, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Exactly what I was thinking, thomas. This "new" comic requires no changes to dialogue, no change to alt text, etc. just one more panel's worth of "art", if you can call a thought bubble and stickman art.ReplyDelete
So, I talked to my roommate about this one. He believes it is a reference to something. That 'something' is a common thing in the encryption subculture: a scenario in which the government has your computer, and wants to break into the data in order to find incriminating evidence. The idea is to make it impossible to do so without you giving them your keys.ReplyDelete
Unfortunately, if this is indeed a reference, it is very badly done, for many reasons--not least of which that if you don't give them your password you're just as liable as you would be if you did and they found incriminating files.
Now, if you really want good protection against this sort of thing, set up a password that deletes or otherwise hides all of your bad files.
This one reminds me of a security course I took in which the speaker stated that despite everything that you can do to protect yourself, if somebody wants something bad enough they'll try to find a way to avoid it altogether.ReplyDelete
2 enjoyable comics in a row, both have felt like way back when XKCD was still a solid strip.
What information are they trying to get from Randall's laptop?ReplyDelete
Shitty comic ideas? Every episode of Firefly? Pictures of a girl he took in Spanish class without her knowing?
I didn't like this one, actually, but it did feel more like early-day xkcd, like the last one. I think if this were during the golden age, I could have just skipped past it and not thought anything of it. Yay Randall are you making a comeback? Dare we hope?ReplyDelete
lol Vlad
Yeah, this is a pretty well worn infosec in-joke more commonly referred to as a "rubber hose attack," meaning that no matter how super uncrackable your shit is, if someone REALLY wants it they're just going to torture it out of you. Used in casual conversation to refer to beating the crap out of a colleague to get him to do something, e.g.:ReplyDelete
"Man, Rod's cousin is fucking FINE but he's being a real dick about giving me her phone number"
"Rubber hose attack, dude"
So overall, kind of a cute comic, I guess, but not particularly innovative or clever.
I read this more as a sort of a governmental criticism and enjoyed it as such. "The government will beat you with a wrench."ReplyDelete
Of course, I think I read the governmental thing into it because it's not implied in the comic.
- AnonymousApril 30, 2009 at 6:45 AM
Yawn, the *real* reason why this sucks is because of this:ReplyDelete
Any idiot who deals with encryption knows of this, and that's why this comic sucks because it doesn't consider this plausible deniability at all.
- AnonymousOctober 15, 2009 at 6:04 PM
I thought it was making fun of movies?ReplyDelete
- AnonymousAugust 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM
A very belated explanation:ReplyDelete
Rob, it's a commentary on the different cultures existing at the two organizations.


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February 23, 2007
The Indiana Court of Appeals will return to Wabash College Tuesday for a hearing on a Putnam County case that involves the Internet, stolen identity, and protected political speech.
The Court of Appeals regularly visits law schools, colleges, high schools and county courthouses around the state. The court will convene at 3 p.m., Tuesday, Feb. 27, in the Goodrich Room of the Lilly Library.
The panel will be the same three-some as last year. The Hon. James S. Kirsch, Patricia A. Riley, and Margaret G. Robb will preside over the hearing.
The hearing is a once-a-year opportunity to see the judicial system in action on a case with many current issues in play.
"In courses across our curriculum including in rhetoric, political science, history and even economics and chemistry our students study legal cases and proceedings from a liberal arts perspective," Professor of Rhetoric David Timmerman said.
"Having the oral argument on campus is a wonderful chance for them to see these cases come alive with the lawyers making the cases live and in person. To watch and hear an attorney answer questions from three judges on a particular case is a real treat - both the attorneys and the judges are engaging in many of the intellectual skills we work so hard to teach and learn here at Wabash - critical thinking, sound reasoning, clear oral expression - and they are doing it in a live setting concerning a real case and the lives of real people. "
The case stems from a February 2006 incident regarding a webpage that was created by a juvenile. The web page featured derogatory comments about Greencastle Middle School assistant principal Matthew Taylor. A delinquency petition was filed in March against the juvenile alleging the the acts, if committed by an adult, would have constituted identity deception and harassment. Additional harassment charges were added in May. The child was declared to be a delinquent child by the Putnam Circuit Court in June. The child was placed on nine months probation with various conditions.
The appeals hearing questions jurisdiction of the case, procedural questions, legal questions, and double jeopardy.
Timmerman urged students and the public to see how the courts work in person on a real case. He called it a unique opportunity for Wabash men.
"It is important for our students to see first hand how liberal arts' skills will serve them well in future, just as they are serving the lawyers and judges well now. It is also important for our students to see democracy at work with our open court system and all the safeguards in our legal system for petitioners and respondents. From its origin in ancient Greece, training in citizenship has been a foundational element of the liberal arts."
In photo: Hon. James Kirsch speaking at last year's oral argument.

subset: commoncrawl


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EA: We Have Never Taken A Position, Either Way, On SOPA Or PIPA
from the but-should-they deptAs a follow up to our post this morning concerning the status of EA (and Sony and Nintendo) concerning the false report that the three had quietly removed their support of SOPA, we spoke with someone at EA who made it clear that the company has not stated an opinion either way on either SOPA or PIPA.
In September, we joined 400 other companies and associations in a letter asking Congress to explore legislative solutions to piracy. However we NEVER expressed an opinion on any of the specific proposals that have been drafted.That's what I had assumed prior to my post, but now it's official.
That said, as people have pointed out, EA is a major member of the ESA, and the ESA is listed as a current supporter (pdf) though they were not on the original supporter list.
Separately, while the US Chamber of Commerce letter that EA refers to does not directly support SOPA or PIPA, it certainly implies that the companies would like this kind of legislation. I recognize why EA would like to stay out of making a definitive statement either way on these bills, but it still seems to reflect poorly on the company in the long run. By now these bills have been out for quite some time, and the company surely has had a chance to review them. It seems like it should be willing to make a direct statement one way or the other on how it feels about the bills. The original story may have been wrong, but not stating a position on the bill seems like a cop out to avoid pissing people (on either side) off.
Filed Under: pipa, protect ip, sopa, video games
Companies: ea, esa


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Variable current will generate inductance, capacitance, and their related properties of inductive and capacitive reactance. Although there's no energy loss that directly results from these properties, 90-degree out-of-phase voltage and current must be supplied so that the created magnetic and electric fields can be maintained. As a result, a small increase in conductor I2R loss will occur.
Of course, there are other reactances not related to conductors that make up a total system reactance, such as leakage reactances of apparatus and the extent of power factor control. We'll limit our discussion here to conductor reactance.
Inductive, capacitive reactance
This is the measure of an inductor's ability, in a fashion similar to that of a resistor, to oppose current. It's expressed by the following equation:
XL = 2ϖfL (Equation 1)
Where XL is inductive reactance (in ohms), f is frequency (in Hertz), and L is inductance (in Henries).
Note that inductive reactance is directly proportional to frequency. As frequency increases, inductive reactance also increases. You should be aware of the fact that inductive reactance causes current to lag voltage by 90 degrees.
Capacitive reactance is the measure of a capacitor's ability, in a similar fashion to that of a resistor or inductor, to also oppose current. It's expressed by the following equation:
XC = 1 ÷ (2ϖfC) (Equation 2)
Where XC is capacitive reactance (in ohms) and C is capacitance (in farads).
Note that capacitive reactance is inversely proportional to frequency. Therefore, as frequency increases, capacitive reactance decreases. You should also note that capacitive reactance will cause current to lead voltage by 90 degrees.
Conductor geometry
The inductance and, as a result, the inductive reactance of a cable is a function of its geometry and physical relationship to other cables. Most engineers and cable manufacturers use very complex series of equations to calculate the inductive reactance of cables. However, you can use the following simplified equation:
XL = 2ϖf × [ (0.1404 × log10 (S ÷ r)) + 0.0153 ] × 10-3 (Equation 3)
Where XL is inductive reactance (in ohms per 100 feet to neutral), f is frequency (in Hertz), S is the center-to-center distance between single conductor cables (in inches), and r is the radius of the single conductor cable (in inches).
You can use the following equation as well:
XL = .023 × [(loge 2 × (S ÷ d)) + K ] (Equation 4)
Where d is the diameter of the single conductor (in inches) and K is equal to 0.25 for cable with Class B stranding.
You can apply either Equation 3 or 4 to cables with open-circuited sheaths and to single-conductor cables in random lay within raceways.
To make things easier for you, manufacturers provide reactance calculation nomographs that permit the determination of reactances per insulation thickness and conductor size for conductors at various spacings, a sample of which is shown in the Figure (click here to see Figure).
(A nomograph is a graphical calculating device and a two-dimensional diagram designed to allow the approximate graphical computation of a function. It typically has three scales: two scales represent known values and one is the scale where the result is read off. The known scales are placed on the outside (i.e., the result scale is in the center). Each known value of the calculation is marked on the outer scales, and a line is drawn between each mark. Where the line and the inside scale intersect is the result. These reactance values are derived from Equation 3. Based on the conductor and/or cable construction, you must apply the correction factors shown in the Table to any reactance values you obtain.
Because the resultant reactance values are in ohms to neutral, you need to take an additional step to find the phase-to-phase reactance. For a 3-phase system, the phase-to-phase reactance is equal to 1.732 times the phase-to-neutral value. For a single-phase system, the total reactance is twice the phase-to-neutral reactance.
Sample inductive reactance problems
Problem 1. Suppose you have a 3-conductor, 500kcmil, 600V cable with galvanized interlocked armor on a 3-phase, 3-wire, 60Hz feeder circuit. Each conductor has 65 mils of insulation. What is the cable's phase-to-phase reactance?
Because you have 600V singles within the 3-conductor cable, each individual single conductor has no separation tapes, semicon tapes, shields, or other coverings. As such, you can refer to reactance tables and directly use the reactance value indicated in the "65 mil" column for 500kcmil, which is 0.0251 ohms per 1,000 feet to neutral.
Because the multiconductor cable's steel interlocked armor is similar to a magnetic binder, however, you have to multiply this value by the appropriate correction factor shown in the Table, which in this case is 1.122. So, XL is equal to 0.0251 times 1.122, or 0.0282 ohms per 1,000 feet to neutral.
The phase-to-phase reactance for this circuit is equal to 0.0282 times 1.732, or 0.0488 ohms per 1,000 feet.
Problem 2. Suppose you have a 15kV feeder consisting of three, random lay, 350kcmil, 100% insulation level, single conductors, each with concentric wire strand shields, in a galvanized steel conduit. Each conductor has an O.D. of 1.34 in.
Because the 15kV construction includes a separation tape, a semicon tape, concentric wire stranding, and a jacket, you cannot just use the insulation thickness typically noted for 100% insulation level, which is normally 175 mils. To be more accurate, you need to calculate insulation thickness by using the following equation:
Thickness = [(single-conductor O.D. 2 bare wire O.D.) ÷ 2]
Now, you know the conductor O.D. is 1.34 inches. From wire and cable literature, you can find that a 37-strand, Class B, 350kcmil bare conductor has a nominal O.D. of 0.681 inches. So, the insulation thickness is the quantity 1.34 inches minus 0.681 inches divided by 2, or 0.33 inches (330 mils). Per the reactance tables, the reactance value is 0.0373.
Because the conductors are in a magnetic conduit, you must multiply this value by 1.50 (increase of 50%). Therefore, the inductive reactance-to-neutral at 6-Hz in ohms per 100 feet (XL) is equal to 0.0373 times 1.50, or 0.0560. The phase-to-phase reactance is 0.0560 times 1.732, or 0.097 ohms per 1,000 feet.
Next month, we'll talk about how to calculate inductive reactance in instances where cables are not touching but are in specific geometric configurations.


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BRIC Spillovers helped Low Income Countries Withstand Crisis
A clear pattern of 'two speed recovery' emerged from the global economic crisis: although the East Asian economies saw a drop of nearly 4 percentage points in their GDP growth to 8.5 percent in 2008 and a further decline to 7.5 percent in 2009, they rebounded quickly to 9.7 percent in 2010. At the same time, however, growth in high income countries fell by 6.6 percentage points during 2008-09, from 2.7 percent in 2007 to -3.9 in 2009. Moreover, these economies are not yet out of the woods given the sovereign debt crises in the Euro Area. This is one of the many fascinating patterns revealed in the newly updated online version of the World Development Indicators.
What is more striking is that low income countries (LICs) have been resilient during the crises, more so than in the past. The annual GDP growth rate for low income countries declined less than 1 percentage point in 2008, standing at 4.7 percent in 2009 and quickly recovered to 5.9 percent in 2010. In particular, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Tanzania, and Zambia have shown robust growth of 6 to 11 percent throughout this period. Similar conclusions were presented in Didier, Hevia and Schmukler April 2011.


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AMG Vision Gran Turismo Concept Details:
- Developed specifically for racing game Gran Turismo 6
- Virtual supercar available for download in December 2013
- V8 biturbo engine capable of 557hp and 590 lb-ft of torque
- Sony's Gran Turismo celebrates its 15th birthday
Developed specifically for the much-anticipated Sony PlayStation 3 Gran Turismo 6 (GT6) racing simulator, the Mercedes-Benz AMG Vision Gran Turismo concept will make its world debut on November 19, 2013 at the opening of the new Mercedes-Benz Research & Development Center in Sunnyvale, CA. Additionally, it will be available for download as a virtual supercar in conjunction with the release of Gran Turismo 6 in December 2013.
The supercar boasts AMG's V8 biturbo engine capable of 577hp, and a maximum torque of 590 lb-ft of torque.
The GT6 concept features a long hood, which transitions into a compact greenhouse. Its angled headlights and aggressive lines give it a menacing look. The radiator grille's shape resembles that of the legendary 1952 300SL race car, however, LEDs incorporated into the design reinforce its technologically-driven direction.
The F1-inspired cockpit features two red sports seats, and a center display that is operational via rocker switches on the dashboard and overhead console.
Around back, the AMG sports exhaust system showcases eight tailpipes integrated into the rear end, suggesting a powerful exhaust note.
The popular Gran Turismo franchise, which has immortalized a number of supercars, including the BMW Vision Gran Turismo, celebrates its 15th birthday this year. To help celebrate, the AMG Vision Gran Turismo Concept joins the lineup of innovative concepts, which help provide insight into further vehicle development.


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Finding peace of mind
Do you follow world news with dread these days? If so, you aren't alone. Much of the world is unstable, from Ukraine to the Middle East and beyond. A friend recently reminded me that World War I began because of one gunshot -- the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. In this world of advanced technology, how little would it take to start World War III? This was certainly not a welcomed reminder, but one that's given me food for thought.
How do we find the strength to plow ahead when institutions and circumstances we've taken for granted appear to be crumbling beneath our feet? How do we find peace of mind while living in an uncertain world?
I regularly remind folks that fear is a normal reaction to life-threatening events, and that living in denial about the realities we face isn't the answer. That said, we must find a way to live with fear while moving forward, and here are some suggestions about how to do so:
Become a student of history: If you've had the privilege of speaking with a veteran of war or a Holocaust survivor, you've already witnessed the phenomenon of resilience against all odds. More recently, remember where you were when you learned about the horror of 9/11. Most Americans thought the world was coming to an end and couldn't imagine a way forward. Yet, somehow we prevailed. History is replete with examples of people who have demonstrated triumph over tragedy. The more we understand history, the better able we are to put our fears in context and find a "new normal" in an uncertain world.
Control what you can and let go of what you can't: Most of us can't have a direct impact over world events. That said, there are things each of us can do to make a difference. Why not contribute to or volunteer for a cause in which you believe, whether it's helping children in war-torn countries or working to improve the lives of our returning military? At the very least, doing so will change your perspective by affording you a modicum of control.
Find or maintain community: Isolation and fear don't make good bedfellows. So this would be a great time to join a club or organization or find a new hobby or sport that involves others. If you are already a member of these, why not step up your involvement? In times of distress it's soothing to be reminded that we aren't alone.
Stay in the present: Much of life's distress comes from fear about a yet-to-be-determined future. We tend to worry about things as if doing so would change the outcome. This type of obsessive thought doesn't alter the future and only serves to ruin the present. Yoga, meditation or the martial arts are all examples of practices that can gradually teach you to stay in the here and now.
Find faith in something: A belief in something larger than yourself can be of great comfort in uncertain times. I'm not necessarily talking about organized religion, although that is a helpful option. And even if you think of yourself as an agnostic or atheist, chances are good that you believe in something, be it the strength of family or the resilience of the human spirit.
If recent world events have caused you heart palpitations -- literally or figuratively -- you are in good company. Rather than focusing on your fears, why not use this time of uncertainty to develop an emotional relief tool kit, one that will get you through the tough times?
Maud Purcell is a psychotherapist, corporate consultant and director of the Life Solution Center of Darien. Email: firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Kanye West - Flashing Lights (Feat. Dwele) (Alternate Version #3)
The 3rd Alternative Video For Kanye West "Flashing Lights Featuring Dwele" Off Of "Graduation" In Stores Now!
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text:
If anything has been invented by a politically involved woman during the last two years it has been the secret to truly derailing the most vile and senseless criticism.
Criticism that would make most of us crawl in bed with some Essie nail polish and a flashlight.
What is that secret you ask?
One simple little word that would make a terrific name for a MAC lipstick color…Success!
Kill em with kindness is the old girl's way of dealing with adversaries.
Murder them with success is the new and improved way.
No one tromped the critics on the left or right better than Sarah the RINO killing Palinator. One endorsement from Palin Power could put you on the political map- especially if you are a true conservative woman.
Just ask Christine O'Donnell (R-DE) or Nikki Haley (R-SC).
The Palinator takes a main stream media beating and keeps on ticking. But only very recently would everyone come to respect and possibly fear the woman they once referred to as a pig with lipstick.
On November 4th, 2008, the entire nation including yours truly did not exactly know what would happen to the woman who almost was the United States Vice President.
Well some of us did not know but others….
"Take your all of your whores back home John Mc-lame- especially Sarah Palin!" yelled a young twenty-something man, lacking in couth and deodorant . The setting was a medium north side café in Chicago. I was eating a corned beef and Swiss sandwich which was normally my favorite but the memory of the night before were still plaguing my brain.
The Obamabots were dancing in the streets and judging from the number of "walk of shamers " I espied Wednesday morning, they had been dancing in the sheets as well. Nothing like Kool Aid filled diaphragms to quench your political thirst. Please do not pro-create Obamabots, please after Obama gets done with us, there won't be enough of other people's money for you liberals to spend.
Yes, Afrocity was a bitter little pill. Correction- Afrocity was a entire bottle of bitter little pills.
How could America be sooooo stupid?
Numb. Just numb. That is the only way I can describe my feelings on that day. Let's not even get into the whole Afrocity eight years previous to that day would have been dancing over a Democrat presidential win. Oh, God this means at least four years with the Hope and Change BS and historic moment hype.
How will I get through this…I am too old to teach English in Japan.
Pinch me please.
Is it just my imagination or was the DNC just hijacked by Jolt Cola sucking millennials, women–oops I am sorry- feminists– who love being kicked in the butt by donkeys, nutty bomb making professors and aging hippies suffering from white guilt?
Is this a nightmare?
Obama won fair and… well nevermind.
The night before was a blur but it did happen.
Hazy images of John McCain saying he lost came to my recall center. I remembered Sarah that night too.
As she stood next to her older and battered running mate, Sarah seemed sad and compassionate. McCain was about to be done- at least on the executive branch front. He gave his concession speech- which was one of the best and most gracious presidential election concession speeches I have ever heard in my lifetime. There was no doubt that Sarah's eyes had that glassy fighting back tears appearance- something had quieted her spirit – but it was to be only for a moment.
Then John McCain gave the pitbull with lipstick a well deserved bone:
From John McCain's Concession Speech – November 4, 2008
I am also — I am also, of course, very thankful to Gov. Sarah Palin, one of the best campaigners I've ever seen … one of the best campaigners I have ever seen, and an impressive new voice in our party for reform and the principles that have always been our greatest strength … her husband, Todd, and their five beautiful children … for their tireless dedication to our cause, and the courage and grace they showed in the rough and tumble of a presidential campaign.
We can all look forward with great interest to her future service to Alaska, the Republican Party and our country.
After several more paragraphs, McCain concluded his speech. I watched Sarah Palin wave her hand at the Arizona crowd and disappear. Where is she going ? She made politics exciting again- now she is leaving. Was McCain correct in his assessment of the woman from Alaska? Would she really want to come back after what the media did to her? Maybe a better question would be would they let Sarah come back?
"God I was so sick of hearing Palin's annoying voice," said one woman watching the cafe television. "She was so…provincial…and stupid. What a dumb woman."
Laughter from her booth mates. They were annoying me on so many punishable by death levels. Mustard on fries, greasy hair and leftover Obama paraphernalia on their coats. And very near the end when they went to the cashier to pay for their food, one enlightened idiot declared: "Power to the socialists. Obama rules Fuck yeah!"
It was gonna be a long, long four years.
But I was being selfish. If it was bad for me, what was Sarah Palin going through? As if having to give up a killer RNC paid for wardrobe was agonizing enough for any woman (Oh those red peep-toe Biden debate shoes- be merciful and let her keep those.)
…Sarah was accused of serving as spare parts Hillary Clinton- estrogen substitute- RNC ticket fluff who was not intellectually grounded enough to read magazines like Ms. and Mother Jones (snicker). Palin's family was also overwhelmingly scrutinized and skewered with no mercy. She would have to be crazy to want to ever leave Alaska again.
But really I could not tell what Sarah Palin was thinking.
Now, nearly two years later…I know exactly what Sarah was thinking.
The Palinator within her, was struck by the limitations of her running mate and the Republican establishment.
She took meticulous mental notes on the inside of her mind's palm.
Like a digital screen words were darting across her field of vision. Before she walked off the stage with John McCain, she scanned the crowd and said to herself in true Palinator fashion:
From this article in the NY Daily News:
Sarah Palin becomes GOP power broker, endorses winning Tea Party candidate Christine O'Donnell
BY Aliyah ShahidSeptember 15th, 2010
One thing has become abundantly clear from Tuesday night's primaries: Sarah Palin's endorsements matter.
Palin and Tea Party-backed conservative Christine O'Donnell pulled off a stunning upset over nine-term Rep. Mike Castle in the Republican Senate primary in Delaware 53% to 47%.
O'Donnell gave a nod to the former Alaska governor during her victory speech on Tuesday night.
"Thank you, Gov. Palin, for your endorsement," the Tea Party candidate said. "Because she got behind us war-weary folks, and gave us a boost of encouragement when we needed it."
O'Donnell wasn't Palin's only win on Tuesday. In Wisconsin, Palin-backed Sean Duffy — an ex-district attorney and castmate in MTV's "The Real World" — handily won the Republican primary Tuesday for a U.S. House seat.
And in New York, Michael Grimm defeated his opponent in the Republican primary for a House seat representing Staten Island. And in New Hampshire's Republican Senate primary, Kelly Ayotte, the state's attorney general (who is backed by Palin) narrowly won against Tea Party backed Ovide Lamontagne in a multi-candidate race.
And then there are other winning candidates, particularly in the Tea Party, that Palin has endorsed this election season — demonstrating her ability to catapult nobodies into virtual stardom. There's Joe Miller in Alaska, Rand Paul in Kentucky, and Nikki Haley in South Carolina…
With her decision to step down as Alaska's leave no caribou behind governor, Sarah exchanged her hunting book for Facebook and a Fox News commentator gig. She came back armed with extended wear lipstick to kick some serious RINO butt and get the Republican party back to sowing its conservative oats again.
Kill em' with success- it works.
Some of Palin's successes are other's headaches. The O'Donnell victory in Deleware challenges the Republicans to come to terms with contradictions in their own party. Sarah is anti-establishment no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on. Yesterday on the O'Reilly Factor, Sarah sat quietly through one of Bill's mini-lectures. If you recall the events following Christine O'Donnell's win, Karl Rove- also known as "The Architect" among the GOP was not too happy about what the Tea Party was building in Delaware. He made that very clear on the Hannity show Tuesday night when he delivered what probably was one of the more "skeptical" assessments of O'Donnell. By mid-morning Wednesday, there were calls out for Rove's hide. OReilly being O'Reilly just had to push Sarah on the Rove issue but she quickly dismissed Bill-O's argument:
Boy she dropped kicked that argument like O-Ren Ishii cut off Boss Tanaka's head in Kill Bill Volume I
Now if any of you RINO Republicans has anything to say…Now is the efffing time!!!
Yep, Sarah said she will be back and like a good politician she kept her promise to us and ironically John McCain who she also helped in his own Arizona senatorial re- election.
And the mainstream media said Michelle Obama would be the one to watch…
Well possibly so…That is if watching vegetables grow in the White House garden is more your cup of feminist speed… Afrocity prefers to skip the arugula and take her tea with two lumps of Palinator- you betcha!
Autographed Letter Signed,


text:
Made a thing that parses weather data into a bicycle barometer
A cyclist in London wanted to simplify his morning commute decision making between riding bike or taking the Tube. So he made a barometer with an old clock case. A servo moves the needle towards the bike or Tube and is controlled by a nanode controller that derives a value from the web. To take small chunks of information from the Web and display it on a physical thing it's geeky enough, bonus to incorporate the bike. That's a bike Maker and something we'd like to see at another Built.
Photo: Jonathan Ford.


text:
Admission Requirements
Applicants who have met the following criteria will be considered for admission to the Graduate Studies program:
- Hold an earned baccalaureate degree from an accredited college or university or be accepted into an Evangel University 5-year BS/MS degree program.
- Have a grade point average of 3.0 or better in the last 60 hours of undergraduate work or last two years as a full-time undergraduate or graduate student.
- Provide official results of required entrance examinations.
- Meet specific departmental requirements as stipulated in the individual program descriptions.
If you have any questions about admissions requirements for Evangel's Graduate Studies program, don't hesitate to call 417-865-2815 (ext. 7227) or email our Graduate Studies Admissions Counselor.
Adult & Graduate StudiesContact
(417) 865-2815, ext. 8274


text:
LGR SSM-60 Dri Beast 60 Pint Dehumidifier
- Air filter is cleanable and reusable
- Built-in humidistat provides tailored dehumidification
- One-speed motor offers simple operation
- Reviews
- Description
- Specifications
- Benefits
LGR SSM-60 Dri Beast 60 Pint Dehumidifier offers compact and reliable dehumidification.
Reliable, Always
Consistently performing, this unit is reliable even when operating for sustained periods of time. It requires little supervision so you can dedicate time to other tasks.
Premium Performance
An in-built humidistat provides tailored humidity and a single-speed fan will run smoothly for consonant performance.
Highly Flexible
Easy to move, this unit is compact so that it can be used in a wide range of spaces. Equipped with large, easy-roll wheels and handle, you can relocate this unit on demand.
With an electronic display for full and easy control, this unit can remove up to 60 pints of water a day to make your life better in every way.
- Model: SSM-60
- Product Type: 60 Pint Dehumidifier
- Product Dimensions: L: 21.70" x W: 20.30" x H: 34.90"
- Product Weight: 115.00 lbs.
- Product Color: Stainless Steel
- Application: Reliable dehumidification in a compact unit
- Voltage: 115 volts
- Watts: 770 watts
- Amps: 7 amps
- Frequency: 60 Hz
- Certifications: ETL
- Dehumidification Capacity: 60 pints per day
- Dehumidification Technology: Compressor
- Energy Star Rated: No
- Automatic Shut-Off: Yes
- Operating Temperature: 80
- Adjustable Humidistat: Yes
- Timer: Yes
- Drainage Options: Continuous
- Hose Connection: Yes
- Carrying Handle: No
- Full Tank Alert: Yes
- Air Filter: Yes
- Built-In Air Purification System: No
- Automatic Defrost: Yes
- Casters: Yes
- Control Type: Electronic
- Suitable for Automobile Use: No
- Suitable for Commercial Use: No
- Wall Mountable: No
- Air filter is cleanable and reusable
- Built-in humidistat provides tailored dehumidification
- Compact design requires little space
- Electronic display is easy to read
- One-speed motor offers simple operation
- Rated to remove up to 60 pints of water a day


text:
Product Categories
- E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
- Tel: Tel:+86 (0532) 8699 8653
- Fax: Fax:+86(0532) 2897 6933
- Web:www.jutung.com
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Contact NowFabric Core Conveyor Belt Production MachineryWith over 40 years experience in Rubber Industry, YADONG GROUP has been the expert for presses and plants for the production of flat sheet material and molded products. Experience, innovation and expert knowledge also characterize the presses and plants for the rubber industry. Next to planning,...Read More
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Contact NowRubber Molding Vulcanizing Machine (Post Type)Application: This machine(Column type) is mainly used for vulcanizing/curing all kinds of rubber and plastic mold products and non-mold product.Feature: 1.The machine is simple and easy for assembly, swift adjustment and convenient maintenance and repair. 2.Single- Power / Double Power oil-circuit...Read More
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Contact NowRubber Oil Seal Trimming MachineAPPLICATION: This Unit is mainly used burr trimming and lip angle precision cutting of various rubber oil-seal, dust wipers, rubber-cup, fasteners, polyurethane and all the round soft rubber products. CHARACTERISTICS: 1.This machine has four ways to process. There are: advance left, advance...Read More
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Contact NowPoly V Belt Rib / Profile Grinding MachineApplication: This machine is used for grinding exact profile(rib) for cogged v-belt, ribbed v-belt and banded v-belt automated. Features: - When the grinding wheel is working , there are cooling blowing and cooling water to remove the grinding scrape. - The grinding speed can be adjusted at any time which...Read More
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Contact NowSteel Cord Conveyor Belt Production MachinesWith over 40 years experience in Rubber Industry, YADONG GROUP has been the expert for presses and plants for the production of flat sheet material and molded products. Experience, innovation and expert knowledge also characterize the presses and plants for the rubber industry. Next to planning,...Read More


text:
Washington, DC – In response to the disappointing unemployment numbers released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics this morning: only 115,000 new jobs were created in April for a jobless rate of 8.1 percent, Robert L. Borosage co-director of the Campaign for America's Future issued the following statement:
"No one should whitewash this month's jobs numbers. The economy continues to grow, but this `recovery' is not working for working people. Over 22 million people are in need of full time work, and job growth is barely sufficient to keep up with new entrants to the workforce. The new jobs being created are disproportionately part-time and temporary work, with lower pay than the jobs that have been lost. Young people are entering a brutal jobs market. As the Associated Press reported this week, one of two college graduates under 25 is either jobless or underemployed.
"Slow growth and mass unemployment translates into falling wages and rising insecurity. Median wages have continued to fall since the official start of the "recovery." America's middle class is still losing ground.
"We need action on jobs. Yet the Republican majority in the House has blocked the President's jobs bill, and failed even to pass the transportation bill that would help put idled construction workers back to work. Instead they continue to push for greater austerity, more cuts in everything from food stamps to food inspectors that will simply add to the economy's woes. They are either fools who do not understand the misery they are inflicting, or knaves hoping that a sputtering economy will help defeat the president in the fall.
"We know what to do. With interest rates near zero, and the construction industry idle, there is no better time to invest in rebuilding America, modernizing our roads, rail, water systems, and more. Young people shouldn't pay the price for Wall Street's excesses, so we should provide states and localities with the funds to sustain schools, rehire teachers, and provide students with the education they need.
Veterans and young people should not face extended unemployment, and the afflictions of depression, drugs, and crime that follow. We should be creating a jobs corps, an urban corps, and a green corps to provide them with work.
"Washington is too divided to act on its own. We will not get out of this mess until Americans rise up and demand action. We know what to do."
At the Take Back the American Dream conference in June 18 to 20, thousands of progressives from across the country will meet in Washington, DC to organize.


text:
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Designer colour: 4100 BLUE
Made in Italy
Designer Style ID: UMQ90LO7K24
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Measurement Information
Model's wearing: 48 IT/FR
Model's wearing: 48 IT/FR
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Brioni was founded in 1945 at a humble tailor's shop in Rome. Since then, the brand has transformed into one of the world's leading gentleman's outfitters, renowned for luxurious tailoring with a refined Italian style.
Please Wait
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text:
Category: Religious News
Lawmakers - Prayer
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - Dozens of Oklahoma lawmakers are heeding a
call to prayer.
About 75 state senators and representatives participated in a
ceremony at the state Capitol on Monday organized in part by the
bipartisan Oklahoma Legislative Prayer Caucus.
Gaylene Stupic of the Oklahoma Prayer Caucus Network says the
event is modeled after the Congressional Prayer Caucus in
Congressman James Lankford is a member of that caucus and
delivered opening remarks on Monday to a group that included
several hundred participants.
Stupic says dozens of House and Senate members signed a pledge
reaffirming "In God We Trust" as the national motto and
emphasizing the importance of regular prayer.


text:
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 422
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted: Fri 17 Oct 2008, 08:26
Post subject:
Project Ripple [in development]
Subject description: A Compiz-Fusion Puplet without any other window managers
Usually Compiz-Fusion will run on top of an existing window manager such as XFCE, GNOME or KDE. So what Ripple will hope to achieve is a desktop environment where Compiz-Fusion itself is the sole window manager. Therefore, in order to replace functionality usually provided by panels/taskbars/desktops, we're planning on using Cairo-Dock, gDesklets and ROX.
Colour-Memories Database
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 422
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted: Fri 17 Oct 2008, 08:33
Post subject:
dinky wrote:
I'm not as partial to screenlets Tom, the project seems much less supported and last look it was a bugger to install things... gdesklets is so much easier.
I know what you mean there, but you thing I remembered is that we're going to need to provide the XDG menu system somehow, you know, like a start button. I don't think Cairo-Dock can do it, can gDesklets? I know that there is a "Menu" Screenlet, that just pops a window of the menu system, pretty handy for us.
I like the latest cairo dock, now that it's more stable
Where are you getting that from?
I also really like Avant Window Navigator, and wonder if it could be included as well.
Aswell? can they both be used at once?
Had no luck with your rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-filer/PuppyPin script Tom, nothing happened.
Do you have ROX installed!?
Also the JWM (or is it ROX?) desktop doesn't support anything other than icons... no files placed there, no folders, etc.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of that either, but it is standard Puppy, as provided in Barry's official releases.
Colour-Memories Database
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Sat 18 Oct 2008, 11:22
Post subject:
Ok, had a few more minutes to play around with it. Firstly, I'm not a fan of JWM, and definitely not too excited about Rox. It's just too basic... that said, I have gotten Rox working with compiz-fusion, and there are definite benefits. That hotpup works as it should is one of them, with drive icons appearing on the desktop. I still find Rox really irritating as a file manager.. I wonder what other options there are?
The problem with starting rox was the code you gave me... needed to have a capital "F" in the /ROX-Filer , not "f".
Re the menus, that is an issue. Not sure about Cairo Dock, but with AWN there is support for menus. That's one of the things I like about it. I'm fairly sure Cairo Dock has something similar, but will have to get back to you about it. I've seen screenshots from Wow with both AWN and Cairo Dock, so I know they work together. Wow's mentioned lots of libraries for AWN... actually, I don't think there are that many if you don't run a gnome desktop... I'll look into compiling that. If nothing else works, we can always use submenus in cairo dock to create a menu... just creating launchers for the programs in /usr/share/applications. Tedious, but might be a good way to go if we can't get menus functioning properly.We could also use screenlets, but lets see if there's a better way first.
The thread for Cairo Dock is here, Wow recently updated it:
Will keep playing around over the next week and let you know how I go.
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 11:54
Post subject:
Hi Tom, ripple i awesome. Ditched the rebuild idea from unleashed for the time being, until I figure out all the configuration issues. So I'm using Puppy 4.1 straight, and simply adding things to it. Rebuilding from unleashed will be better once I sort out what goes where, as we can take out most of the programs we don't need. But for now, I am running Ripple, and loving it!
Am using Rox for file manager, wallpaper, and desktop manager; compiz-fusion for windows manager; cairo-dock for panel, taskbar, and system tray! And gdesklets for added functionlity. I'm starting to enjoy Rox. There are lots of features I didn't know existed... being able to iconify onto the desktop is a great one...
Anyway, more later, I'm knackered and am going to bed.
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA
Posted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 12:35
Post subject:
actually if you use rox as the desktop you can get icons instead of using compiz's half butt wallpaper support (no icons AFAIK but offers multiple wallpapers)
I don't remember if rox can do multiple wallpapers
but... that shoots the whole idea of using cairo-dock etc... since the whole idea is to get rid of the icons and prevent the clutter
compiz + rox
dock/allpurpose panel
also notice from the first screenshot it includes an xdg menu and another upshot is that rox is probably smaller than cairo-dock + awm etc...
follow the instructions here:
and here
to install rox and it is meant to be... awesome that is
oh and the zeroinstall crap is a pain so if you use any roxapps please .pet them and disable zeroinstall
Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
X86: Sager NP6110 3630QM 16GB ram, Tyan Thunder 2 2x 300Mhz
Sun: SS2 , LX , SS5 , SS10 , SS20 ,Ultra 1, Ultra 10 , T2000
Mac: Platinum Plus, SE/30
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 23:54
Post subject:
Thanks for that! I'm being convinced differently about Rox... it's just the default puppy install that I find boring and too simple, this looks great!
Spent a long time playing with it last night, and think we should definitely keep it for Ripple.The default install on Puppy is able to be spiced up quite a bit... I had no idea that applications can be iconified onto the desktop! Found out that using Cairo-dock they are also shown in the dock... now that's cool.
I'm more inclined to use what puppy already has, rather than recompiling rox differently. Also, keep in mind the point of Ripple is to use Compiz-Fusion as the window manager, not anything else. Perhaps Rox is a possibility for the WM as well if Compiz won't work on some computers.
I think it's possible to have a nice balance using Cairo-dock and Rox desktop icons together. I also like the current support in Puppy for Rox... icons appearing on the desktop for drives and usb devices is great.
You're right, Compiz only support multiple wallpapers, which is kinda cool... but for now I think the Rox Desktop is better. Would be great to get them both working. I'm having another think about AWN, I don't think it's necessary. If I can get Cairo-Dock properly configured, and sort some kind of xdg menu working, that should do us. Any thoughts on the xdg? WHat do I need to install using Rox to get this going? Also looking at Wow's suggestion of lxsession-lite. Anyway, see how I go.
I'm playing with this on my eeepc, using an intel graphics card. Do you want me to make an iso of what I've done (remaster of puppy 4.1 at this point) to post up here? You'll have to play around with it to get compiz working on your machine, assuming it's different from mine. After it's configured properly (going to take some time, I'm afraid), we can work out what applications to include. If you want to keep it small, we can have sfs extensions available for people to add onto Ripple once installed. (i.e., 100ish Mb, then sfs add-ons with gimp, Xine, Openoffice, etc.)
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 1169
Location: USA
Posted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 09:53
Post subject:
Rox (the app itself) isn't a wm... it is a panel/dock file manager and background manager though
for the menu app you will need to have python and pygtk installed (the non tombh ccsm .pets neet python too... the ones he made are static IIRC)
also rox has a session manager... called rox-session i think
rox in puppy is striped down a bit... missing its auto installer (0aliaz and 0install... if you had them you would just download the Rox-All launchers and when you click on one that is not installed it is downloaded and installed also not the installer is distro independant and therefore not really ideal)
Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
X86: Sager NP6110 3630QM 16GB ram, Tyan Thunder 2 2x 300Mhz
Sun: SS2 , LX , SS5 , SS10 , SS20 ,Ultra 1, Ultra 10 , T2000
Mac: Platinum Plus, SE/30
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Posted: Fri 24 Oct 2008, 10:46
Post subject:
Cairo-Dock has an "Applications Menu" applet, called GMenu, since the 1.6.3 version.
it is merely a port of the Gnome-panel menu applet, so it should work on any XDG compliant plateform.
Also, consider using the Cairo-Dock's Desklet, it may save some memory/CPU compared to a combination with Gdesklets, and it may lighten your dock by reducing the number of icons inside.
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Sat 25 Oct 2008, 08:20
Post subject:
Thanks Fabounet, aren't you one of the main developers of cairo dock? Great program. Unfortunately I'm stuck for the moment using 22.214.171.124, as that's the latest version wow has compiled... my time is limited and I've been hoping not to have to make another build...lol. Any advice on this one? Or better yet, are you able to provide a build for me yourself? Either tar or pet would be so wonderful.
i don't think tombh was ever that keen on avant-window-navigator, and from what I've seen now I'm not that keen on using it either. I think Cairo dock will be more than enough. Re widgets, good point. I've thought of just using Cairo dock's, and run into 2 issues.
1. gdesklets has many more desklets than cairo dock currently does, and it seems fairly easy for people to make more... using gdesklets would garauntee a wider base than what cario dock currently offers. Likely we'd use one or two desklets installed by default, then provide a link to users where they can download more. Desklets are also ridiculously easy to install... simply drag the tar package onto the manager, and they're in.
2. Cairo dock's widgets, while good, aren't as clean. For some reason they have a sqaure border around them, haven't figured out why yet. This doesn't look as good.
On the possitive side though, it would make the iso smaller. Currently I have gdesklets set on the widget layer in ccsm.
How do I define the cairo dock desklets to be on this layer also, without hiding the dock? Thanks!
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Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4850
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posted: Sat 25 Oct 2008, 10:19
Post subject:
With a name like Ripple you should totally use a Pug as the mascot or even just name it Pug (which could also stand for Puppy Users Group) ... I'm only half serious but at least it would be more distinguished from RiP Linux (Recovery is Possible) which is roughly the same size as Puppy Linux.
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Sun 26 Oct 2008, 05:14
Post subject:
Hmm. Pug. interesting thought... I'm more inclined to think of perhaps a water logo, with ripples... not too sure about this whole puppy dog mascot thing, a little bit sacharine for me. What do you reckon tombh? I'm able to be swayed...lol
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 699
Posted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 08:05
Post subject:
Have just been playing around to get an xdg meni working... arrghhhh....
Rox would be great, except that the xdg menu is an applet for the panel... scratch that idea. unless mistaken we're unable to use it independently of it's own lovely accord. So Rox xdg out the window. Had a go at compiling cairo dock 1.6.3, and failed everytime with glitz.... glitz is installed, as it's needed for the version of Cair Dock I have running, but can't get the new compile to recognize or find it.... it is, of course, entirely possible that I have no idea what I'm doing. Anyone able to give any advice on compiling, or to be so kind enough as to make a pet for version 1.6.3 of cairo dock, and move this project ahead?
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Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4850
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Posted: Mon 27 Oct 2008, 22:57
Post subject:
Sorry this is the closest I could get using the
online Petch
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Posted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 05:34
Post subject:
perhaps a water logo, with ripples...
3401 Time(s)
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Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 263
Location: UK
Posted: Tue 28 Oct 2008, 06:08
Post subject:
tombh / dinky,
I've sent you message. Check your inbox.
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The Winston-Salem Police Department is pleased to announce the creation of a new Citizen Volunteer program in partnership with Volunteers in Police Service (V.I.P.S.). This program was created to help coordinate volunteer activities and make communities safer, stronger, and better prepared to respond to emergencies. This program will provide opportunities for citizens to work in a volunteer capacity inside the police department performing various clerical and administrative duties. The goal of this program is to allow volunteers the opportunity to have a direct effect on their community by assisting the Winston-Salem Police Department make Winston-Salem a better place to live, work and play. Some of the reasons that a person may wish to volunteer with their police department may include:
Completion of or enrollment in the upcoming Citizens' Police Academy is a prerequisite to be able to participate in this program. Additional information on the Citizens' Police Academy can be obtained by contacting Officer Claudia Morgan at (336) 408-8126.
1. Application Process Form [pdf/576 kb/1p]
2. Application [pdf/156 kb/3p]
3. Confidentiality Agreement [pdf/408 kb/1p]
You must complete and sign both forms in their entirety and return them back to:
Winston Salem Police Department
Attention: Officer Claudia Morgan
Community Resources Unit
725 N. Cherry Street
Winston Salem, NC 27101
The Volunteer Coordinator will review your application to ensure it is complete and signed. Any application received that is incomplete will be denied.
After the Application is received and reviewed, you will be contacted for an oral board interview to further discuss the position.
Each applicant who reaches this stage in the process will be fingerprinted along with a criminal history check, clearance for current warrants, and a driving records check. Previous employers and the 4 personal references listed will also be contacted to determine an applicants suitability to become a member of the Winston Salem V.I.P.S. Program. All written references must be received within 30 days of the original mailing date in order to be accepted.
All applicants will be notified by mail of their acceptance or non-acceptance to the program.
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These are the comments originally appended to the article. Many of them are thoughtful and worth reading in their own right.
As with the article, please do not submit this to reddit.
- Chris Morris Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 6:51 am e
" experts in several different languages were given a simplified spec taken from a real problem and asked to implement it."
So, was the use of Haskell an integral part of simplifying the original spec given to the experts in the first place? To me, the essential difficulties of programming are in figuring out what the hell to really build in the first place. None of the programming languages in that study helped them do that. They skipped the bulk of the essential difficulties and went right into studying the effects on the accidental portion.
- Craig Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 7:41 am e
I really enjoyed that, looking forward to your next blog.
- Functional Lover Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 8:21 am e
You know why? Because all the colleges have been brainwashed by Java. Damned be they.
- Paul Johnson Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 8:26 am e
There has been some discussion of this at http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.424533.12
- Jonathan Allen Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 9:04 am e
From the study referenced:
> 1. The NSWC experiment was conducted in a very short time-frame with very little direct funding. Thus many corners had to be cut, including significant simplification of the problem itself; the largest of the prototypes was only 1200 lines of code.
> 2. The geo-server specification was by nature ambiguous and imprecise, thus leading to some variation in the functionalities of the developed prototypes. (On the other hand, the specification is probably typical of that found in practice, especially during requirements acquisition.)
> 3. The participants were trusted entirely to report their own development metrics. In addition, not all of the participants attended the first meeting at NSWC; those who did attend were advantaged.
> 4. No guidelines were given as to what exactly should be reported. For example, development times usually included documentation time, but there were major variations in the code-size/documentation-size ratios. In addition, different methods were used to count lines of code for each language, and it is not clear how one line of code for one language relates to that of another.
> 5. The review panel had very little time to conduct a really thorough review. For example, none of the code was actually run by the panel; they relied on the written reports and oral presentations.
The problem was grossly simplified, the code was rushed, the line count and time spent numbers questionable, and the final application never run.
This is your proof?
We don't even know what those 85 lines of Haskel actually work with good inputs, let alone if they correctly responded to bad data.
- Mike Griffiths Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 10:50 am e
I think you re missing the point with regard to the whole process of software development. Even orders of magnitude improvements in the process of writing code have no impact upon the problem of writing the right code - defining right as "fit for the required purpose" once the problem domain exceeds a remarkably small limit.
- v Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 1:22 pm e
While the arguments you present in the bulk of your post are convincing, the hard data presented hardly seems so. How does low LOC = high productivity except in the wierd world where CMM makes sense?
What gets put down as code is but the distill of all the knowledge stored in a programmer's head, and functional languages do demand a higher overhead of that storage space than imperative ones (more for historical reasons, i admit, but there it is).
Moreover, code building tools reduce the effort to actually input those high LOCs with automation that is improving by the day.
Can you present a better quantitative metric than LOC counts for functional languages being an order of magnitude better?
- thomas lackner Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 3:07 pm e
You should link to information about the STM implementation in Haskell.. sounds very interesting.
I refuse to comment on the constant debate about programmer efficency, as I'm sure the same program would be 72 characters in K/Q!
- hxa7241 Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 3:27 pm e
I have recently translated a minimal global illumination renderer from C++ to OCaml. It is about half the size — similar to the Ruby translation. The difference is in having class interfaces defined separately, and other small things.
The implication that functional is so much more compact and simple than imperative is wrong. Look at the granularity of abstractions: they are practically the same. If you still code with the same sized building blocks it will demand similar effort.
Also, well-made imperative code has many restrictions on state interaction. It is not so far away from functional code.
The only forseeable way to greatly improved productivity is with reuse: more, better libraries/frameworks and ways of using them. (As Brooks says.)
- Achilleas Margaritis Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 3:48 pm e
As always, benchmarks are biased.
Getopt is a parser.
You can write a command line parser in a few lines of code in C++ using a library like boost::Spirit. For example (code not tested, just an illustration):
rule letter = range('a', 'z') | range('A', 'Z');
rule digit = range('0′, '9′);
rule alphanumeric = digit | letter;
rule id = *letter << *alphanumeric;
rule num = +digit;
rule cmdLine = *('-' << (id | num));
There are many tasks in which functional programs are shorter and more concise, but these advantages are not due to the functional nature of a program, but due to design choices (better syntax, no semicolons, lambda functions etc). These advantages can happily exist in imperative languages too. The only difference is referential transparency, but, for me, it gets in the way.
Can we please see a MVC application with Haskell where the model is cleanly separated from the view?
- Achilleas Margaritis Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 3:59 pm e
As always, results are biased.
The command line parser could be written in C++ with a Spirit-like framework like this:
rule id = letter << *alphanumeric;
rule num = +digit;
rule cmdline = *('-' << (id | num));
The advantages of FP come from concepts that can also be used in imperative languages: lambda functions and closures (Smalltalk/Ruby), simplified syntax (Ruby), etc. On the other hand, in pure FPs many things are unnecessarily complex.
- anonymous Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 5:22 pm e
Your argument about the lack of states in functional programs is fundamentally flawed. FP-s appear to have no states simply because they describe what would happen (sort of.) However, in order for a FP to, well, run, someone, somewhere, must pull a lever so that the wheels start turning according to the spec of the FP, and what ticks under the FP ultimately does have state. I am not suggesting that there are no gains from functional programming, but the notion you offer is bogus as it stands.
- Edward Ocampo-Gooding Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 5:23 pm e
A popular excuse for why programming folks all don't immediately jump into functional programming is because it's not as intuitive a paradigm as the procedural style.
I'd like to see a psychology study that measures programming proficiency vs. time trained with "fresh" students unaware of either paradigm and have two separate groups be trained.
- You wish Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 5:34 pm e
And yet Lisp, which is considered a functional language, has been around since 1962 (it was spec'ed in 1958), and Brooks doesn't point to it in his paper. Functional programming isn't new, and it is certainly not a silver bullet.
- Sam Carter Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 8:04 pm e
The reason why the whole world isn't using functional languages is very simple: shitty library support. The real silver bullet for most programmers is access to large, high quality libraries, with the primary examples being the .NET runtime, or Java's libraries. Programming tests that require writing 100% of the code from scratch are just flat out inaccurate, because you are measuring the wrong thing. The bulk of modern development time isn't writing code from scratch. It's writing code that interfaces with libraries for networking, or XML parsing, or database handling, or whatever (see http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LordPalmerston.html for a fuller treatment of this topic). The functional programming language community is more interested in marginalizing their access to external systems rather than making it easier (research into monads being a great example of that).
- Larry O'Brien Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 8:50 pm e
I intended to post the URL of some thoughts on your post, but your comment engine diagnoses dashes in URLs as indicative of spam. (Not so, I think.) Anyhow, http://www.knowing.net/PermaLink,guid,659c9535-6674-48f9-a4f9-8bc34fe724b5.aspx
- Paul Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 9:39 pm e
Comparing Haskell to C compares a variety of design parameters at once: strong versus weak-ish typing, garbage collection versus hand collection, high level data types versus low-level ones, different libraries etc.
Based on my experience with functional languages and other high-level languages like Python, Ruby, Smalltalk, Javascript, Perl, C#, REXX etc,, I would guess that those other factors are MUCH MORE likely to be relevant than just the functional programming paradigm.
In addition, comparing lines of code for PROTOTYPING is pretty uninteresting. I'd like to compare lines of code for a functional application used by customers. What if the design decisions in a particular language are focused on robustness and maintainability?
- Larry O'Brien Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 10:19 pm e
I've posted a reply at my blog. Unfortunately, I can't paste the exact permalink, which your comment engine wrongly insists are spam.
- Indeed You Wish Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 10:19 pm e
Certain problems are more easily solved with certain tools — let's not fool ourselves, and believe FP solves all problems better.
- Jeff Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 10:37 pm e
You can make any language look good by comparing it to C++. If being functional is the magic bullet, then why do stateful languages like Python, Perl, Ruby, Lua, Lisp, etc. always do just as well as Haskell in this sort of omparison?
- Stuart Dootson Says:
December 7th, 2006 at 11:29 pm e
Unlike the rest of your commenters (as far as I can tell), I *have* used Haskell for real-world problems, and can confirm that (for the problems I've used it for), it is significantly more productive than imperative languages like Java, C++ or Ada.
I don't think it's quite ready for the maistream, but it's definitely got promise.
- Not Silver But Still Very Good Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 12:54 am e
I'm very sceptical about LOC as a measure. However, here's a very recent informal data point, which I'm mentioning partly because it's notable for the relatively controlled nature of the comparison: Lucian Wischik at Microsoft recently had to rewrite a 6,000 line F# program in C# (C# was required for unrelated reasons). It became 30,000 lines (references to comments by Lucian below). Now, this comparison is with essentially the same .NET libraries (F# adds a few minor libraries), the same (talented) programmer, the same .NET runtime, the same performance profile, the same problem specification, and the C# code has the advantage of being a reimplementation.
See Lucian's comments on the Google group at microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp at http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp/tree/browse_frm/thread/38a144ceaf101030/fb4664a7e4c27cf6?rnum=11&q=F%23&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fmicrosoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F38a144ceaf101030%2F38d9aa4dbda50892%3Flnk%3Dgst%26q%3DF%23%26rnum%3D1%26#doc_814fd26871c2c6b7
More extensive analysis of the differences by Lucian at http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp/browse_frm/thread/38a144ceaf101030/38d9aa4dbda50892?lnk=gst&q=f%23&rnum=1#38d9aa4dbda50892
- Josh S Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 1:53 am e
"However, in order for a FP to, well, run, someone, somewhere, must pull a lever so that the wheels start turning according to the spec of the FP, and what ticks under the FP ultimately does have state."
That's not the point. The point is that an FP utilizes a framework that *safely* translates from an abstract language without a concept of state to a concrete language that is basically nothing but state.
Likewise, object oriented languages do not actually have objects — whether they are detected at compile time or run time, they ultimately map to swaths of memory and functions.
It's all smoke and mirrors. But it's the magic of the smoke and mirrors that enhance our productivity. By building the funnel from a "safe", "imaginary" language to the "dangerous", "unproductive" one, we eliminate the problems inherent at the lower level.
- Joel Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 2:41 am e
Functional programming is not usually adopted because so many real-world systems are almost entirely side-effects. Look at all the things a shell script does; it's changing system state. What's that JDBC app doing? Changing database state.
In the world of web applications, you're always doing I/O. It's almost all I/O. And that is state (of your I/O streams).
I've been looking at Erlang a lot recently. I have a serious jones for its concurrency constructs. They are as awesome as advertised. But man, you can't do a decent thing with strings in that language. Seriously, it's not much better than C. Python, Perl, even Lisp can do a lot of manipulation of the strings - things you have to do in parsing protocols and HTML and so on. But Erlang here is almost a non-starter. Ugh!
Then there is the subject of libraries. Some major languages provide many things you don't have to reimplement. But do the functional languages? Lisp has been around the longest, but try getting a gui library that works on all of (SBCL,CMUCL,CLisp). Or a decent GUI on Erlang at all. Even Paul Graham, champion of Lisp as Solution To Everything, admits that you need massive libraries to be useful - it's a goal he has for Arc.
At least Haskell has GTK+ bindings. I haven't explored Haskell enough to comment on it. I just wonder why folks haven't used it to do Yahoo! Store. If it's that good, it will make someone money.
- fez Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 5:07 am e
I would love to see a shootout between the various web frameworks (including any based on functional languages).
Something like the following:
- well-defined spec
- basic CRUD functionality for the most part
- some integration(s) with a third-party API (thus existing off the shelf libraries will be of use)
Let the best coders from each language duke it out. Record time spent for each segment of app development & log all commits to a Subversion repository.
Have a panel of neutral judges look at not just the time spent but also feature completeness and any other niceties the teams added in the time alotted, and give a score to each team.
- Ulf Wiger Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 1:20 pm e
More references were asked for. Here's one:
"Comparing C++ and Erlang for Motorola Telecoms Software"
carried out by Heriot-Watt University together with Motorola.
Two applications were re-written from C++ to Erlang, and one of the applications was benchmarked. The pure Erlang version was 2-3x faster, much more robust, and had 1/3rd to 1/18th the number of lines of code, depending on how you compare the libraries. Detailed analysis suggested:
"- Code for successful case – saves 27%
- Automatic memory management – saves 11%
- High-level communications – saves 23%" (slide 31)
Like all other studies, this one can certainly be debated. Does anyone have a reference to a study concluding that functional programming does NOT lead to a productivity increase?
- tndal Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 3:04 pm e
You omitted that ISI Relation Lisp scored the most rapid development time by far: less than half the time required by Haskell.
Although the line count was greater, this version of Lisp cleaned the floor with Haskell as a productivity tool. And Relational Lisp is a mirror of Prolog.
- Jason Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 6:42 pm e
Some points:
- LOC does not imply that less effort was involved in crafting the Haskell solution. Just less effort in typing it in.
- Some problems have greater susceptibility to different approaches. One small "real world" problem is completely inadequate.
- Double-blind experiments in this regard are, in fact, impossible, so this will remain a bench-race forever.
- Joel Reymont Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 7:51 pm e
Paul, you may be interested in the latest article in my blog. See "Re-birth of a trading platform". http://wagerlabs.com/2006/12/8/re-birth-of-a-trading-platform
Thanks, Joel
- Larry O'Brien Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 7:51 pm e
Jason: "LOC does not imply that less effort was involved in crafting the Haskell solution. Just less effort in typing it in."
Not so. In industrial systems, lines of code produced per month is essentially constant, regardless of language. Also, defect rates per KLOC is essentially constant, regardless of language. (ref. Capers Jones works on "language levels") (In small programs, you definitely see greater variation.)
I agree with your other points.
- Larry O'Brien Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 7:57 pm e
"Not Silver But Very Good" ref's Lucian's claims. The threads have little substance. I've been following Lucian's Website and I feel that a grain of salt is called for. For instance, he wrote an F# program that displays a teapot in Direct3D; fair enough, but he makes it sound like the lighting and manipulation in 3D comes from a few lines of F# when, in fact, the "teapot in a viewport" is canned functionality that can be done in a few lines of _any_ language.
- Ben Moseley Says:
December 8th, 2006 at 9:24 pm e
The thrust of your article is very close to the thrust of our "Out of the Tar Pit" paper which investigates FP (along with the relational model) as being very relevant to the Silver Bullet question - http://web.mac.com/ben_moseley/frp/paper-v1_01.pdf .
- Not Silver But Still Very Good Says:
December 9th, 2006 at 3:26 am e
Re the teapot - you've got the wrong guy: Lucian works at Microsoft, and has never touched a DirectX teapot. I think you're thinking of Flying Frog consultancy.
- Ulf Wiger Says:
December 9th, 2006 at 12:50 pm e
I totally disagree with the idea that LOC wouldn't matter. It's not just a matter of the effort of typing in the code. Much of that extra code often represents "unnecessary" detail that distracts the reader, hides the core logic, and which also needs to be maintained. I've seen projects that have problems with keeping "boilerplate" code consistent when the system gets complex enough. Some projects resort to using modeling languages that generate the boilerplate. When judged as programming languages, these tools are usually quite crappy, but their supporters defend them based on the opinion that it's still a lot better than having to code the stuff by hand. But there are good programming langugages that work at the same abstraction level as those modeling tools. We've also found that the learning curve for e.g. Erlang is much shorter than for e.g. UML or C++, contrary to the statement that FPLs would be more difficult to learn, or less intuitive.
My own conclusions are based on 10 years of working in and around very large software projects, with code volumes in the order of hundreds of thousand lines, or even millions. I've had the opportunity to review several projects using C++, UML, Java and Erlang. I get the feeling that many of the comments above come from very limited comparisons. That's ok - you have to start somewhere. For me, it took 2-3 months to properly un-learn C++ and OO when I first started with Erlang.
- anonymous Says:
December 14th, 2006 at 12:57 pm e
Josh S:
"That's not the point. The point is that an FP utilizes a framework that *safely* translates from an abstract language without a concept of state to a concrete language that is basically nothing but state."
Brooks was talking about the complexity arising out of the sheer multitude of possible states (or combinations thereof). In FP, you retain (at least in part) this very complexity in order to be able to produce any useful behavior, and whether this complexity is state-based or not, is totally irrelevant.
What's left to argue about is whether complexity is significantly reduced by imposing the stateless view, and I for one am still a bit sceptical about any radical claims on that account, especially if well-designed programs/systems from both domains are compared.
Another point that comes to mind is that, paradoxically, FP actually inhibits stateful programming when you need it (and you almost always do when designing and implementing systems,) by making the complexity of combining states explicit. Inherently stateful models, on the other hand, will let you hide some of this complexity, be it at the still-present risk of coming up with something inconsistent.
It pays to note that, compared to the current state of the art in PP/OOP, the FP way of combining state is clunky even with the help of monads and monad transformers, in case you wanted to bring those into the argument.


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Featured News - Current News - Archived News - News Categories
Artpark's popular outdoor summer concert series offer an array of regional cuisine for thousands of hungry concertgoers each week. Opportunities exist for your business to become a food vendor at the "First Niagara presents Tuesday in the Park" concert series, which runs for 12 weeks (June 4 to Aug. 20) and the "Coors Light Wednesdays" series (June 12-July 17) in the newly renovated Artpark Outdoor Amphitheater.
Deadline to apply is April 1.
Food vendors are able to set up between the hours of 1 and 4 p.m., must serve from 5 to 9 p.m., and must be available to work all 12 "Tuesday" concerts. More details are available on the vendor application:
Click here for a 2013 vendor application (download a PDF)
Applications are also available at the Artpark Administration Office at 450 S. Fourth St., Lewiston. For more information, call 716-754-9000, ext. 141.


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College of Liberal Arts
Putting progress in perspective. At RIT, you'll have a unique opportunity to study traditional liberal arts subjects within the framework of a technological university.
The College of Liberal Arts offers 12 career-oriented bachelor's degree programs and more than 30 liberal arts minors, and it plays a central role in the general education of every undergraduate at RIT. A liberal arts double major or minor can give you a secondary area of expertise and help you fulfill requirements in our general education curriculum.
A community of learners
We offer the advantages of a small college and the benefits of a major university. You'll have the chance to participate in seminar-style classes, independent study, and faculty-guided research projects. You'll find professors who are respected in their fields but not too busy to get to know you personally.
If you're undecided about your career choice, you can pursue the liberal arts exploration option. Personalized advising will help you formulate your educational plans while you explore the college's majors. You'll sample courses in the areas that interest you and investigate which career path is best.
Twelve majors to choose from
In a multicultural society that must deal with rapid change, the liberal arts curriculum and the college majors lay a firm foundation for your life and your career.
An integrated approach to the study of communication and media distinguishes our advertising and public relations major from others. By combining liberal arts, advertising, public relations, marketing, and business courses with cooperative education experience and a focus on new media technologies, our program delivers a lot, including career success. You will gain an understanding of various media and acquire the technological skills your career will demand.
The communication major allows you to take advantage of current developments in the rapidly changing field of communication. You'll study the theory and practice of spoken, written, and visual communication, then add courses in business, public relations, photography, graphic design, or other areas. If you have specialized career interests, you'll have the option to create your own professional core courses. A semester of cooperative education will give you the opportunity to apply knowledge acquired in class to real-world situations.
The criminal justice major combines theory with practical experience and leads to a number of exciting career possibilities. Concentrations in criminology, law enforcement, corrections, computer crime, and security are available, but you can design your own concentration if something else inspires you. This program also provides excellent preparation for graduate or law school, including student internship placements.
Our economics major places great importance on the development of your communication, analytical, computer, and management skills. Co-op work experience is optional in this program, but it is a great way to expand your career options in business, finance, economic research, public policy, and law. Economics graduates may complete RIT's master of business administration or master of science in public policy with only one year of additional study.
The broad-based international and global studies curriculum includes three years of foreign language study. You'll be able to focus your studies on international business, science and technology issues, or on a particular region. Graduates are prepared for policy analysis and international affairs positions in government and the private sector. International studies also offers accelerated 4+1 programs that allow completion of an RIT master's degree in public policy or business administration.
The journalism major prepares students for the changing newsroom, where traditional reporting merges with media technologies to create the innovative delivery of information. Beyond writing and reporting, you will gain crucial skills in graphic design, photography, audio and video production, news and information management, and methods of new media publishing.
Museum studies is an innovative, interdisciplinary, technically based major that prepares students for careers in museums, archives, photo collections, and libraries. The major's core courses familiarize students with the history, theory, and practice of institutional collecting, conservation, and the technical investigation of art. Students choose one of two specialized professional tracks: museum studies or public history. Before graduation, students will be required to complete 200 hours of internship in cultural institutions.
The philosophy major sharpens your ability to evaluate complex problems, identify and examine underlying principles, investigate issues from diverse perspectives, and communicate clearly in both written and oral forms. You will combine your interest in philosophy with a double major in another discipline. This dual, cross-disciplinary approach makes you uniquely competitive for professional careers and graduate education.
Our political science major explores the traditional political science discipline while providing students with the skills they need to succeed in the world's ever-evolving political conditions and circumstances. Cutting-edge specializations in politics and the life sciences, digital politics, and political institutions enable students to explore the political implications of biotechnology and biomedicine as well as the political use of information technology. The innovative curriculum prepares students for careers in law; local, state, and national government; foreign service; business; and government relations. A 4+1 MBA plan is also available.
Our psychology major applies a science and technology focus to the traditional psychology curriculum. Degree options in biopsychology, clinical psychology, visual perception, social psychology and cognition sharpen your focus, and a cooperative education or internship requirement provides real-world experience. You'll be well prepared for graduate study or employment.
Our public policy major offers several unique features, including an accelerated five-year BS/MS option and a choice of specializations. This program's interdisciplinary education includes economics, history, political science, philosophy, and sociology. Explore a range of public policy issues in courses drawn from other programs at RIT. This is perhaps the only public policy major in the nation that requires a cooperative education component, providing preparation for both graduate study and careers.
The sociology and anthropology major capitalizes on RIT's strength as a career-oriented university with a technological edge. An interdisciplinary core curriculum encompasses science, computing, and the liberal arts, while individual tracks focused on archaeology, cultural anthropology, sociology, and urban studies let you choose an area of specialization. Experience using the same statistical and analytical technology employed in the field today will serve you well as you venture into the workplace during the required co-op/internship. The 4+1 program leads to a master's degree in public policy only one year after earning your BS degree.
The Liberal Arts Viewbook provides an overview of liberal arts related programs at RIT.


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Rochester Images -> Pathfinders -> Town and Village Pathfinders -> Hamlin
Living Off the Land
In 1852 the town of Clarkson was divided in half and a new town, named Union, was formed. Although its name was new, many people had already called the town home for several years. Aretas Hascall and his family were noted as the town's first permanent settlers in 1806. However, with vast swampy areas, dense forests and difficult travel conditions the region's population grew very slowly. As a tribute to Abraham Lincoln's first vice president, Hannibal Hamlin, the town of Union was renamed "Hamlin" in 1861. Six hamlets eventually bloomed within the town: Walker, North Hamlin (also known as Thomasville), Hamlin Station, Hamlin Center, Kendall Mills and Morton.
Hamlin borders Lake Ontario and is located in the northwest corner of Monroe County. It covers over 44 square miles, making it the county's second largest town in terms of size. With so much land at their disposal, town residents have utilized and beautified the land and its resources throughout the years. Use the links below to explore ways in which they have done so.
"Living Off the Land" was produced by Rochester Images, a department of the Rochester Public Library. It was funded by a grant from the New York State Archives and Records Administration for the town of Hamlin's Historian's Office. This pathfinder was written by Kathryn Heckle. Special thanks are extended to Mary E. Smith, Hamlin Town Historian, for her research assistance and to Colleen R. McBride of the Rochester Public Library.
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