text:
2011-01-30 SunMornBrnch plus
** Chats Lobby*SunMornBrnch
** Chats Lobby
Start: 15:01:23
keli1: are you here
3rdthawkins: yeah, I'm here
keli1: wow, it switched us on Ruth's birth certificate, does it say where she was born? and her date?
3rdthawkins: yeah, chat closed, we can go to this chatroom also http://www.gendepository.com/chat.html just in case this one shuts us out too I have not gotten my grandmother's birth certificate yet, but I am planning on getting it, perhaps it will shed some light on her mother's birhtplace
keli1: and that would be Ruth Hawkins, when did she pass
3rdthawkins: if you mean death certificate, unfortunately, it just gives U.S. for birthplace, and only gives her age my grandmother passed in 2005
keli1: did Dennis do anytime in the military
3rdthawkins: no, he died during the war
keli1: what is ruth's married name
3rdthawkins: do you have to ask lol Hawkins
keli1: her married name, not maiden
3rdthawkins: right, married name :} her married and maiden name both are Hawkins
keli1: ruth is the child of Mada and Dennis Hawkins, oh okay..got it
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: hawkins hawkins, lol
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: interesting she died in NY?
3rdthawkins: no Florida
keli1: she died in Florida, what is hubby's name
3rdthawkins: Thomas
keli1: ruth marie hawkins
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: well we know she was born in NY, did you find her birth record?
3rdthawkins: no, I am planning on ordering it I know when she was born, just have to get her BC
keli1: the one I see has different parents, Thomas and Valerie oh valerie is her daughter 23 aug 1930 n ny, ny
3rdthawkins: oh please, ignore that tree
keli1: k
3rdthawkins: someone was helping a famiy member do research and I gave them information for my grandparents
keli1: did she die in St. Pete
3rdthawkins: yep well, no, but that is what the SSDI says last residence,
keli1: lol who was in the Navy, thomas?
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: okay I am trying to see if her death record is online
3rdthawkins: SSDI should be, I think there's also an obit in Ancestry's Obituary collectio but I do have her obit though
keli1: yea I am reading her obit now when did Dennis die? and did he die in NY?
3rdthawkins: 1943, yes, Queens
keli1: it will be interesting to find out what mada really stands for,
3rdthawkins: yeah, I know, wonder if it will be on my grandmother's birthcertificate and if it says Mada, I'm gonna pull my hair out
keli1: it might be, lol..
3rdthawkins: I'm not sure where my grandmotehr got her mother's name from, who gave it to her, or if she knew it all along
keli1: who knows, Mada is going to drive me crazy...
3rdthawkins: lol welcome to my world
keli1: oh I have a "mada" in my family as well, her name is Nellie Giles
3rdthawkins: oh, ok, so you know what I am going through then, hehe
keli1: oh yea, Nellie died between 1910-1915 and was living in Iowa, and she didn't die there, cant find her or her second husband
3rdthawkins: oh, wow
keli1: she married my gg grandfather named William Michael Murphy, can't find the marriage certificate either, my grandfather was born in 1887, so they should of married before then, but her second marriage was in 1896, as is her second child finding the marriage record is key in both situations
3rdthawkins: yep, definitely if nothing else, timeline
keli1: where did these folks meet is what is critical....did the jefferson's go to NY
3rdthawkins: right, it is and I'm not sure if she went with her parents or by herself, or with Dennis, and when she went
keli1: no oral history
3rdthawkins: nope the two who would know died young, and that was Dennis and Ruth.....My grandmother and her siblings were too young when their parents died, no one else in the family would know, any information that was known died with the person/people.
keli1: you have to track all family members, pull death, marriage etc, you never know where the clues will come from
3rdthawkins: no one knows really, she died so young, all people know of her is what she looked liked wish I could find marriages of Dennis' siblings, can't find them either, and I believe most of them married in NY that went to NY
keli1: or SC
3rdthawkins: there's a few siblings I cannot find in 1930 that I am certain was still living
keli1: the presentation I am working highlights the importance of researching the whole family
3rdthawkins: I'm doing that now keli1, trust me, just hard to find them all, I have got in contact with a Hawkins cousin, actual a 3rd cousin of mine just a few years older than me, hoping to get more info, but she explained no one knows anything about Dennis she's also doing research and trying to find info on all of our great great grandparents' children, so we will exchange info
keli1: there is hope!
3rdthawkins: one thing, I am trying to see where she was buried, she was buried in Saint Stephen, SC, but no cemetery is listed, and I am not trying to call the funeral home because I am afraid they won't have anything for that time, just too long the funeral home in South Carolina that waas involved doesn't exist anymore, the one in NY still in existent but not sure about calling that
keli1: that is in Berkerly, so they took her home
3rdthawkins: no, she was born in Virginia
keli1: her hubby was from there, why is she buried in SC
3rdthawkins: I think because that's where her husband wanted to bury her, he was in charge of her burial, he was given a permit (I have the paper)
keli1: wonder if the Jefferson' also moved somewhere down there
3rdthawkins: I don't know, they were white, not sure if they wanted anything to do with them, but then again, you could be right
keli1: lol, you never know, you are sure Mada was white? or was she mulatto
3rdthawkins: she was definitely white my grandmother and three of her sisters are all white, except the youngest who is the same complexion as the father, he was tan complexion, his mother Jessie was also white (or at least half white)
keli1: and Dennis was negro?
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: if the jefferson's were white, maybe they were not legally married (Hawkins)
3rdthawkins: well, it was not illegal in New York for interacial couples to marry, Dennis' second wife was also white, and there is a marriage record for them, I just have to order it
keli1: correct
3rdthawkins: I believe they were, just have to find a marriage date for them
keli1: yes, I agree, if there is one, it is time for apple pie. where in MS are you?
3rdthawkins: Joplin, MS MO
keli1: okay MO
3rdthawkins: so, no birth records in VA around 1910?
keli1: yes there are
3rdthawkins: wonder if it would be possible to get or find Ruth's w/o knowing exact DOB
keli1: I think it was in her obit, she was born in 1931 NY has city directories as well
3rdthawkins: no, I mean my grandmother's mother for Queens? everytime I try for Queens, there's nothing
keli1: mada?
3rdthawkins: yes, her, for her BC or birth record in Virginia
keli1: there are tons of James Jefferson's in Virginia,
3rdthawkins: born between 1870 and 1890? not being able to find them makes me doubt the name or question whether he had a nickname or something, not sure what it is. I also wonder if they were actually bo in VA, and instead, in another country and immigrated to this country to VA, and then moved from VA to NY, something like that or middle name
keli1: yea, but you never know you will just have to back track by getting the death and marriage records, make sure you get Ruth's marriage record, something might be there
3rdthawkins: who, my grandmother's I mean, which Ruth keli1, my grandmother's?
keli1: you only told me of one Ruth, and that is Ruth Hawkins Hawkins, daugther of Dennis and Mada Jefferson, daughter of James and Anna
3rdthawkins: yes, I have my grandmother's marriage record to her husband, doesn't say much other than residence. keli1 and date of birth
keli1: where did she marry? new york? and where does it say she was born, residencey
3rdthawkins: they married in Washington, D.C. 1949, residence was Long Island, NY no birthplace, only date of birth to verify that she was of age to marry
keli1: wonder why in DC
3rdthawkins: my grandfather was stationed there, and that's where he was living when he was going to school there
keli1: and why was she there
3rdthawkins: that's where my dad was born and where they raised their children, I was born there I'm thinking about some point she was dating my grandfather and moved to D.C. with him about-At some point she moved there as early as May of 1949 she got a job with the government by June of 1949, and married my grandfather Sep of '49
keli1: interesting, her children should of known why, is there a family bible
3rdthawkins: no, no family bible, they kept a lot of their family past hidden from their kids my dad and aunts and uncles only know a few family members, those who their parents allowed the mto know them to know still there keli1 ok gotta go keli1, nice talking with you, thx for your help
keli1: oops
Start: 11:17:20
deannie: hi 3rd you are in early
3rdthawkins: hey Khathu
Khathu: good morning
3rdthawkins: Khathu, you havent' done much research outsie of Texas, have you? like East Coast
AYWalton: Well good morning, folks! greetings, Khathu!!! I see you are early birds.
Khathu: I have done research in the Carolinas, Virginia, Alabama, Georgia and Louisiana outside of Texas, the Carolinas and Virginia is where I have done a bulk of research Hello AYWalton
3rdthawkins: ok, was looking into migration from the South (South Carolina) to the north (new York) wondering if there would be any paper trails to follow them, how they got up there and when they left the south, things like that, they seem to have left in groups or something
AYWalton: Do you have any presentations coming up soon, Khahtu?
3rdthawkins: in the 1920s
Khathu: Nothing yet AYWalton But I did make myself available to the Baltimore Chapter
AYWalton: to answer that question you have to research the people in those groups even if they are not your family----the reason why looking at people outside your family---because your family associated with people---relatives or not.
Khathu: cluster research
AYWalton: otherwise you are caught in a tunnel and won't get out. can't have blinders on. several folks from Baltimore were at your presentation in Columbia Khathu!
3rdthawkins: yeah, that's what Im doing now AY, I am looking at a census for 1930 with my great grandfather's brother, there is a group of people all born in South Carolina and parents born in South Carolina, and am diong some research on them
AYWalton: I was delighted to see that many did show up, in fact. well that's good to hear, 3rd.
Khathu: yes.....Doriene stated that Baltimore would be interested in having me present
AYWalton: I know a few chats ago you indicated that you were not interested in people who were not related. Glad that you have taken a look at others. You can answer many questions that way, and open up some doors. Khathu will you be going to NGS this year?
Khathu: I haven't planned on going
AYWalton: you should consider presenting in 2012 at NGS. They have a deadline of April 1, I believe. time to submit some proposals. I have not yet seen the deadline for FGS.
Khathu: i will definitely consider it
3rdthawkins: yes, I'll do research on people that possibly can help me locate family and understand their movemnts, but just not on someone that's totally has nothing to do with my family, you know...... that's what i was saying
AYWalton: how do you know they have totally nothing to do with your family? If you don't research them----you don't know. that is why it is called research----to find out the things that you don't know. otherwise if you know----then there is no reason to search---because you already know. if you know every maiden name, every spouse, then you don't have to research.
3rdthawkins: ok :}
AYWalton: to say totally-----means that other possibilities---don't exist. any interesting seminars coming up for you khathu?
Khathu: none i need to start promoting myself
AYWalton: I have been looking at some of the seminars offered at NGS, though I am not certain that I will attend or not. you ned to Khathu, you have good experience. and we need to have more speakers.
Khathu: i want to submit a few more articles to the historical and genealogical societies in Indiana, Virginia, South Carolina and Texas of course
AYWalton: I talked about that in one of my podcasts----I see some of the same people taking notes on the same things every year. have you been updating your blog of late? If so, you need to promote your updates on Twitter. there is a very large genealogy following there and that is how I am connecting with a cadre of other genealogical researchers. will you be attending Samford in 2012 Khathu? you should try to schedule it if you can. for the Afr. Am. track.
Khathu: i will have more vacation time next year so i will definitely try
AYWalton: I was amazed at the number of Afr. Americans who attend the Samford institute. And not just for the Afr. Am track, either.
Khathu: i am trying to blog at least once a week
AYWalton: then you have to let the world know about your updates. I used Twitter exclusively for genealogy updates. and I now have 378 followers. small number in comparison to some who have over 1000.
Khathu: okay...i think the unique thing apart my presentation is that i do not start with 1865 but i start in the present and work to 1865
AYWalton: but that is the way it should be done, and that was correct. what organizations have you joined for 2011, khathu? and will you present at Ft. Wayne in the fall/
Khathu: i haven't joined any yet
AYWalton: I have to renew memberships. Plus waiting for the Call for papers for AAHGS and for Ft. Wayne. You should also present, khathu. it's time. just schedule your days off for those events.
Khathu: with the new job, i am still trying to build up my leave and the schedule
AYWalton: Yes, I know how that can be with leave time. Build up that leave and use it when you can, for genealogy events that might occur on weekdays. Most are around weekends, thankfully.
Khathu: i just started so i have no leave yet
3rdthawkins: hey alt, feeling better?
alt: hello All, 3rd, Khathu & AYWalton
AYWalton: Howdy alt!!! How are you feeling?
alt: Much better 3rdthawkins, starting to feel 'alive' again.
AYWalton: Hope that flu bug has been shaken!
3rdthawkins: great!
Khathu: Hello alt
3rdthawkins: Khathu, have you ever found your other family you were looking for, not the one from last nite?
AYWalton: Don't try to do too much, alt, that flu can get you down again.
Khathu: 3rd - i did some follow-up online on Lorenza Williams from Anderson Co, TX. Now I need to start examining county records
AYWalton: Khathu do you have research travel plans for this year?
3rdthawkins: ok, what about your other family you were looking foor, I forgot the name, but I think it was a tough name to search for
Khathu: Virginia and the Carolinas
alt: thanks AYWalton, an don't worry I'm not in the mood for a relapse.
Khathu: in particular South carolina
AYWalton: I hear ya, alt.
Khathu: 3rd, i am not sure which surname you are referring to - boozer maybe
3rdthawkins: that may be it, been a while just seeing if you found anything.,........but
Khathu: 3rd, i have so many surnames i am reseaching it is hard to keep track
3rdthawkins: lol, ok, i understand
Khathu: keep in mind i am doing all of the collateral lines as well
3rdthawkins: I see.....
Khathu: as well as the communities in which my ancestored lived
alt: I've had time to do some reflecting and think I have a good story to relate. the story involves, genealogy, family history... UGRR, USCT, FPOC, community and covers the period of ca 1820 up to the CW... goona do it for a BHM story. and it involves really only two families.
3rdthawkins: all of those letters, huh?
alt: great to hear your approach has become much broader Khathu
Khathu: that has been my approach for the past few years now
alt: I did an UGRR Seminar last May (2010) one of the safehouses we toured built in 1850 was a house I'm sure involved my ancestors... as the owners and my ancestors were children of parents who chartered an AME church in 1824.
AYWalton: Greetings, daviss!!!!!!!
alt: hello daviss
daviss: hello there y'all!
AYWalton: good to see you this morning. Hope all is well. has Mariah popped up, daviss? lol
Khathu: hello daviss
daviss: lol AYwalton I was just scrolling back to catch up on chat
AYWalton: just thought I would ask, daviss.
daviss: lol lol hey you know you would not even have to ask I would find the nearest mountain top
3rdthawkins: seriously, if she did, we wouldn't even have to ask, daviss would let us know
daviss: khathu I am reading up on your talk of a new job, is it in your same area of town?
AYWalton: Greetings, Ms. Selma!!
daviss: glad to see you here alt. You must be feeling better
Selma: Good Sunday morning everyone..
alt: hello Selma,
daviss: hello Selma!
alt: able to sit up and take nourishment daviss, that's about it daviss.
daviss: soon alt! you will feel much much better
AYWalton: brb
Selma: Well at least in the chat..you only have to keep your eyes and fingers busy alt... No exertion..
daviss: I guess a couple of days ago when I asked for your phone number it was for a good reason under disguise. To check up on my buddy
alt: and that's good Selma LOL
Selma: Unless somebody types something that makes you mad..LOL
daviss: lol @ Sel
alt: and I appreciate being checked on daviss...
Selma: Afternoon Ingrid
alt: hello Ingrid
AYWalton: Greestings Ingrid_Doweary!
Khathu: Hello Ingrid
Ingrid_Doweary: Hey 3rd, Selma, AYWalton, Daviss, Alt and Khathu.
AYWalton: hope you are doing well, today, Ingrid.
alt: well, I guess this Friday we get out chance to 'nitpick' season 2 of WDYTYA LOL
Selma: Yes we do.. LOL "nitpick" is good
Khathu: i feel the inspired to write a blog post in preparation for it
Ingrid_Doweary: I'm good, got "Carmen Jones" playing int he background on cable.
daviss: I did download that freeby of rootsweb but I am using it "only" for a cousins line to see how far I can work it. His grgrgrandmother is listed as the mother of his grandmother on the census. She is actually the step grandmother I believe
3rdthawkins: I notice how hard you all can be on the black celebrities opposed to the white ones, what's up with that? lol lol
Ingrid_Doweary: Yeah, Alt. I hope so. How are you today Alt?
Khathu: who are you referring to?
3rdthawkins: you mean rootsmagic daviss lol (about to call you cavis lol)
AYWalton: Ingrid, do you follow Kimmaytube? She recommended it on her weekend show.
Ingrid_Doweary: Nothing, 3rd. I'm equal opportunity critical.
daviss: right 3rd sorry I meant rootsmagic
3rdthawkins: all of you Khathu last year with Emmit Smith lol
Ingrid_Doweary: This is my first time hearing of Kimmaytube, AY. I wasn't critical of Emmit Smith.
AYWalton: hard on Emmit Smith the person, or on the researchers who jumped to conclusions? He was not the researcher and if there was criticism it was about the people who presented the data to him.
Khathu: i have more experience with AA research so I feel very confident in my critique and analysis of the proposed methods
AYWalton: I don't recal even ONE criticism about him the man, 3rd.
3rdthawkins: I thought emmit smith would have to run for the borader from y'all lol
Khathu: in researching AA and their enslaved ancestors
AYWalton: have no idea why, 3rd. He was at fault for nothing in the progam, and not one person criticized him.
3rdthawkins: well, the Emmit Smith episode AY, I Just say Emmit Smith
Khathu: anyway, any new developments with the research
AYWalton: then he would not have to run. He was the recipient of research, and we as researchers had something to say about the data, not about him the man.
3rdthawkins: ok AY, gosh!
AYWalton: and he, the recipient would probably be quite interested in what a team of experienced researchers would have to say about some conclusions hastily researched on his family.
Ingrid_Doweary: Working on two display layouts for the BHM exhibits at work- University of the District of Colubmia.
alt: perahps this year there will be a little more explaination as to how conclusions maybe infered from the records researched.
AYWalton: quite true, alt. I wonder who the researchers will be.
Ingrid_Doweary: Good point, Alt.
3rdthawkins: if they have gotten enough complaints alt, which they probably should have
AYWalton: did they get many/any?
Khathu: the notion that the research can be done entirely online drives me crazy
Selma: That I agree with Khathu
3rdthawkins: don't know AY, I would think so, I was trying to make a comment, but they weren't receiving any, so not sure
Selma: and that goes for white and black researchers
AYWalton: true, Selma.
Khathu: i get frustrated trying to explain to people this fallacy
AYWalton: I know what you mean, khathu.
Ingrid_Doweary: You know you're right, Khathu. All of the research isn't performed online, but offline also.
alt: drives you crazy Khathu.. what about some of us who started before the online 'explosion' like 20-25 years ago.
Khathu: or people thinking they can start researching with slavery
AYWalton: and they see something on TV and then think it is all there just waiting for them.
Khathu: the vast majority of it is perfomed offline i would estimate that 15-25% can be done online
Ingrid_Doweary: See that's how the research process is undervalued. The process clearly entails identifying sources, leads, guide, references and so forth.
alt: IMHO what is seen on TV is the 'marketing' or 'hawking of genealogy products.
Khathu: and the 25% might be a little high
AYWalton: Well for census research that is tru, but you know we miss a lot by not using microfilm as much.
3rdthawkins: and there's a difference between Searching and REsearching
AYWalton: with Soundex you get a lot of people related whose names were misspelled.
Ingrid_Doweary: I concur, Alt.
Khathu: one still have to cross reference and verify what they find online
Ingrid_Doweary: You said it, 3rd. I'm proud of you!
3rdthawkins: that's were my last name comes from alt :} "occupational"
AYWalton: Ingrid who are the speakers for this Saturday at the Museum?
Ingrid_Doweary: Right On, Khathu! Search, identify, verify and analyze.
3rdthawkins: I'm ordering SSA's, looking into city directories, and ordering deeds to do research on my Hawkins family
Ingrid_Doweary: You know, AYWalton. I haven't heard yet.
AYWalton: ahhh ok. Wish I could make it one of these days.
alt: online and digitization of records have greatly enhanced 'older' resources such as Census and indexes,but ........
Ingrid_Doweary: Happy to hear you are on the right track, 3rd
AYWalton: This week I will be in NY presenting at Rockland College.
Khathu: Oh, maybe I can do a presentation at the AA Civil War Memorial Museum as well
AYWalton: One of these days I hope to give a presentation as well.
Khathu: I will contact Hari Jones to discuss the possibility Mine will be on slave era research
Ingrid_Doweary: I agree, Alt. The digitization enhances the preservation process. PLease contact Hari Khathu.
Selma: You should also send them a link to your USCT blog AY...they should have links to all the AA CW blogs
alt: books, Wills, Estate Papers, etc. can now be found online.. and the Library services of some of the larger facilites are a blessing.
AYWalton: Yes, I have to do that.
Khathu: As part of a libation ceremony honoring our enslaved ancestors, member of the CMC AAHGS were asked to submit the names and information on their enslaved ancestors
AYWalton: And now that Dru has one as well, they need hers as well.
Ingrid_Doweary: Oh Khathu, the presenter who appeared after Seventies turns out to share the same USCT ancestor as frmr Miss America, Vanessa Williams. Her episode airs this friday on WDYTYA.
AYWalton: I posted one yesterday about Lewis Martin, the soldier with the famous photo---the one who was injured.
Khathu: so yesterday afternoon i went through my RootsMagic and was able to i.d. 45 direct ancestors who were enslaved
Selma: Will check it out
AYWalton: I wonder if they know each other.
Khathu: their date of birth ranged from 1787-1860
Ingrid_Doweary: Good for you, Khathu.
AYWalton: that is great info, khathu.
alt: I sure hope this 'flash' of CW150 will last the whole 4 years fo the celebration.
AYWalton: I hope so as well. one of the things that I have pointed out----the CW discussions will go on for 5 years. Of course we are mostly silent about the Civil War.
Ingrid_Doweary: Well Alt. It's up us researchers to make that last for 4 years.
AYWalton: look how few folks are writing about it now.
Khathu: Selma - it looks like the Lorenza Williams from Anderson Co., TX was in the CW as a bugler
Selma: Ah...
AYWalton: and as I mentioned in this week's podcast----so far the only Afr. American blogs about the CW are by women. Not a problem in itself, but still a problem---males did the fighting and women are doing the writing.
alt: most States are doing things in a sequential manner. and this emphasis on USCT's maybe 'deferred' by some until 2013...let su be aware of that.
Ingrid_Doweary: And like AY pointed earlier, we need more the male descendants/researchers/genealogist to come forward and make a variety of presentations.
Khathu: i think he died before 1920
AYWalton: and men are usually aficianados of war type discussions. most CW buffs are white males.
Selma: But contrabands start in 1861 Alt..so we don't have to wait until 2013
AYWalton: which is how they can make up stories about us---since we are not out there. my point exactly.
Selma: Ok so that rules him out Khathu
AYWalton: and I am not waiting anyhow. I don't care when we entered---we have to start talking about it now.
Ingrid_Doweary: We of Africa Descent can not wait until 2013. We need to present as much relevant historical contributions as possible.
AYWalton: there is a contraband blog, in fact.
Khathu: not necessarily
AYWalton: exactly Ingrid.
alt: I know Selma... my point is to take the CW150 history in context... so why are WE not talking contraband in 2011.
Selma: Oh where AY
AYWalton: lastroadtofreedom.com
Selma: Well thats what I wanted to do..when I get off my bu&*
Khathu: i will continue to research him to see if their is a connection
AYWalton: created by Dr. Alesea McCloud.
Ingrid_Doweary: Great question Alt. Hear hear.
AYWalton: Well get off it, Ms Selma!
Khathu: the cousin could have been mistaken
AYWalton: I will help you if you need a nudge. I wrote a piece last week about one of the Ft. Monroe contrabands, who became a soldier.
Khathu: on who he actually saw. in addition, the 1910 listed him as being married twice
Selma: Thanks AY..gonna read this afternoon
alt: and so far I have seen no discussion or mention, except the NYTimes series, on the actions of AA's leading up to the CW.
Ingrid_Doweary: See that is the least we all can do. Put the role of African Americans and the American Civil War in context.
Selma: I hate to say the name Lorenza is a unique name, cause then you go on Ancestry and there are a Million, but it seems to me there might be a connection somehow
3rdthawkins: hello jhonora
AYWalton: and we need to be blogging bit time.
jhonora: Afternoon all!
AYWalton: hey hey hey, it's honoray!
daviss: just the fella I have been looking for.. Hi jhonora!
AYWalton: howdy jhonora!
Selma: Afternoon jhonora
Ingrid_Doweary: Hang in there, Selma. You know your perseverance will pay off. Hey Jhonora!
3rdthawkins: there was someone searching for a female version of the name, Florenza
jhonora: Hey AYW!
alt: hello jhonora
daviss: @ selma I am thinking the same thing re Lorenzo/za
3rdthawkins: I think! oops, someone else wsa researchign an ancestor wiht that name Lorenza, it was hard to find him also, in AR
daviss: jhonora I sent an email to you the other day @ coin C
jhonora: Ohh yess daviss. I never replied, forgive me. Let me pull it up now.
daviss: I am hoping you heard of the name heyyyyyy thats no fair jhonora lol
alt: an interesting twist on the Black Confederate Soldier thing will be the upcoming discussion of Blacks who passed for white and served in the Union Army prior to the formation of the USCT's.
3rdthawkins: hmm, that would be interesting alt that is, if they could present it where it makes sense
Selma: Where is that discussion being held alt
Ingrid_Doweary: That does sound interesting, Alt.
Khathu: have a great day everyone
AYWalton: that could be interesting, alt.
alt: the known cases in SE Ohio Units been discussed and documented by the GAR camp# ?? in Marietta, Ohio and some of it is on Bennie;s site. A collegue of Bennie's... Henry Robert Burke .. is the primary researcher.
3rdthawkins: as they say, never say enver
Ingrid_Doweary: lol
Selma: Jhonora..when I was at the library last week, saw a book entitled A History of the Catholic Church in Virginia by Gerald Fogarty Alt..do they continue to pass for white after the War is over
3rdthawkins: but would they be fighting for the same things the southern white folks fighting for?
jhonora: Yes, Selma, Commonwealth Catholicism, a good book.
Selma: Ok good you know about it..looked like it was 600 pages long
AYWalton: I had better run, folks. have a great day!
alt: No Selma, and they passed for white only to get into the military.. they were black in their community before and after the war... Henry Site for statrers http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/HRB_SEO.HTM
3rdthawkins: ok, that makes sense alt
Selma: Ok..will check it out
jhonora: Yeah, it was dense but includes a about ten pages on blacks
alt: 3rdthawkins, i think you misunderstood the concept...
3rdthawkins: probably
Selma: Folks I have to run...have a great day.
daviss: bye
3rdthawkins: you said they only did to get into the war, so was asking if they were fighting to keep slavery, I understand that wasnt' teh case
daviss: 3rd does your hawkins line go to VA or SC?
3rdthawkins: that's why I don't get into that discussion with you guy,s cause I don't what you all are talking a bout or why
jhonora: daviss, was Geo. Richardson her step-father?
3rdthawkins: North Caroling to South Carolina daviss
freeaainnc: hi all
3rdthawkins: hello free
Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Free.
jhonora: Hello free
daviss: I dont know if she really knows for sure jhonora
freeaainnc: can someone do a quick lookup for me in ancestry census records? I don't have access from home
3rdthawkins: I can try and use HQ free
freeaainnc: thanks 3rd! 1850 census, Craven Co. NC page 346B family 1291
daviss: name
freeaainnc: Pettiford what does the age show for Caroline? looked like either 17 or 7 when I originally viewed it about 2 years ago and forgot to check again when my eyes were better oh, and for Willis
alt: view record on ancestry says born ca 1839 she would be 11 y/o?
jhonora: daviss, has she found a marriage for Evaline and Geo. Davis?
freeaainnc: ok, that could be
3rdthawkins: looks like17 free 17
Ingrid_Doweary: What's the 1st name, Free/ ?
freeaainnc: Carolina Pettiford and Willis Pettiford ok 3rd and what about willis?
alt: Wiilis looks to be 2 y/o ?
daviss: all I have is what I sent you jhonora. I tried to find one online as well as a bc but no luck
3rdthawkins: not sure what that last marking
freeaainnc: yeah, same here 3rd, that is what I was unsure about too if it was 11 or 17
3rdthawkins: 3 free, if you look down at Vicy, it is written again with a 0 at the end, looks like 30, so Willis is 3
freeaainnc: ok, thanks 3rd!
3rdthawkins: yw the enumerator writes his 3's differently each time
alt: Oops 3 for Willis
freeaainnc: I put for Carolina "11 or 17" yeah, I hate when they are inconsistent lol
alt: Indexed as 11 & 3
freeaainnc: alt but I don't trust ancestry's index, it is riddled with errors
jhonora: Well, daviss, researching Louisiana outside of New Orleans is a challenge. Births and deaths were not kept until 1914. The only records are marriages which almost never give parents. Brenham does not seem to be a common name in Catahoula. I can check to see if there is Catahoula courthouse records on microfilm here in N.O.
3rdthawkins: it is a pet peeve
alt: so that why you cross check them free
freeaainnc: i know alt LOL
daviss: did you get Brenham off of that jhonora
freeaainnc: I'll see if I can find time at lunch tomorrow and look at the actual microfilm, maybe that will help
Ingrid_Doweary: Have you cross-checked for Carolina on the 1840 or 1860 censuses, Free? There you go, Free. Good thinking.
3rdthawkins: names not gonna show on 1840 Ingrid for those in the house other than Head of House
alt: jhonora. what can you tell me about the Freedman's Aid Society In NO ca 1915-1920? WAs it Gov't operated? fed/state?
daviss: does that brenime look like it could be a surname jhonora
freeaainnc: Ingrid, I'm sure I have at one point, but I did all the census stuff on the Pettifords about 2 years ago and don't remember for sure
jhonora: There may be some hope. I just noticed she's the only colored person on the page. Did you see "master" written next to the folks above them in '80?
freeaainnc: but that doesn't always help either because age is not always consitent from census to census
Ingrid_Doweary: Okay, Free. Just putting it out there.
freeaainnc: yep, I know and appreciate the reminder
daviss: what does that mean jhonora
Ingrid_Doweary: I concur/
3rdthawkins: I think it's good to check free, you never know, it kind of looks odd having 17 year old and then the next oldest is 3, of course we don't know relationships (you may)), 11 and 3 may be better
jhonora: Not sure just yet, daviss, but it may be something to go off.
freeaainnc: right 3rd, I don't know the relationships yet. she could be a sister, a cousin, an orphan who was bound to them, an apprentice bound to them, etc. even if she were 11 the age wouldn't fit as a daughter
Ingrid_Doweary: Interesting possibilities, Free.
freeaainnc: so I need to look through the original records from Craven Co. for this family to figure out who she is
alt: especially a 17 y/o with a 25 y/o father .. looks the mother is 29 y/o so the 25 y/o male may not be the father, huh?
3rdthawkins: wow, missed that alt
freeaainnc: definitely Ingrid right alt, could be step father or again not a child of either of them but some other relation
alt: another misconceptual conclusion on relationships for census records prior to 1880.
freeaainnc: a lot of the 1850 census pages I copied in my note book are tearing so I'm copying them again and noticed that about Carolina and Willis with their ages alt yes and I wish they did the relationship thing for all census records lol
alt: but you don't throw out all conclusions based on non-stated facts.
freeaainnc: right sorry, copying while we talk lol
Ingrid_Doweary: What are you working, Jhonora?
jhonora: In general, Ingrid, or at the moment?
3rdthawkins: wish there was some kind of paper trail for those who migrated from the south to the north (like SC to NY) also VA to NY
Ingrid_Doweary: historical/genealogy wise, Jhonora
alt: there is 3rdthawkins, you just have to find it...
freeaainnc: yeah
3rdthawkins: wow, thanks alt lol
alt: occuaption, education, military, residence, newspapers .. it all ain't in vital records.
freeaainnc: but there usually is, the trick is to figure out their route in order to find it
jhonora: I'm working on Medard H. Nelson, a private educator here in N.O. from 1870s-1933. Also Mother Theodore Williams, from Baton Rouge and foundress of Franciscan Handmaids, and a history of the Knights of Peter Claver, and my Compton family.
3rdthawkins: welll, I was looking more for like migration papers something like that, documents, it took place in the 1920s, between 1920 and 1930, city directories are no good for Queens
alt: no I'm serious 3rdthawkins, broaden your search parameters and perhaps community searches.
3rdthawkins: right free I don't think those are gonna help me alt in this situation vital records good as in marriage license if I could find where and/or where they married
jhonora: daviss, one thing, are the folks you know white?
Ingrid_Doweary: Thanks Jhonora. Sounds great.
freeaainnc: oh but they do 3rd because that is what helps u figure out their route from point a to point b
daviss: I am thinking they are black or mabe mixed jhonora
freeaainnc: and in a 10 year span from census to census, maybe they stopped somewhere and bought land, signed a petition (that is how I found the route for one of my own ancestors), etc.
3rdthawkins: I'm not interested in the route, just to know when they came to NY< I'm trying to find and track/trace my great grandmother's parents so I can find them in census it is very hard
freeaainnc: but 3rd, understanding the route they took and finding their records along the way helps you determine when they actually came to NY plus it helps give you a fuller picture of your ancestors
Ingrid_Doweary: Sometimes 3rd, the leads you're not interested in can lead you there.
freeaainnc: who they were, issues they dealt with personally, what they did, etc. right, exactly Ingrid
3rdthawkins: so, I need someone familiar with New York, cause I don't know what is there and what isn't, seem like very limited resources
Ingrid_Doweary: Have you contacted Seventies and or Amos, 3rd?
3rdthawkins: I plan to order BC for my grandmother and marriage license for her father's second marriage. I am trying to find marriage date for my grandmother's parents
freeaainnc: it always seems that way until you actually become familiar with them yourself lol
3rdthawkins: yes Ingrid
Ingrid_Doweary: and or Spivey?
3rdthawkins: lol probably so free.........yep Ingrid her too
freeaainnc: yes 3rd, i would start with the vitals and work back from death to birth records they left in their final place of residence may give clues to their previous place, and the records there may give clues to the next place, etc.
daviss: gotta run folks
Ingrid_Doweary: good you plan to order those aforementioned records. good luck, 3rd.
freeaainnc: 3rd have you hired a professional researcher? you may need to if you are unfamiliar with records in NY
3rdthawkins: I am studying the DC for my great grandparents and teh information they gave, also the 1930 census they appear on, need to get that marr. license for my gr gf's second marri. nope Free, I may also other census records that my graeat grandfather's siblings appear on in Queens
freeaainnc: yeah, you may need to invest in it, but first get all the vitals you can
3rdthawkins: I am more focused on Virginia migration to New York, but would research the ones from SC also
alt: 3rdthawkins, when you get to a period prior SSA records, do you have replacement resources for that type of information?
freeaainnc: and when/if you do hire someone be sure to tell them all the documentation you have, even if it seems nonconsequential because they may waste time trying to find something you already have b/c it is of consequence to them
3rdthawkins: hmm, alt, not really
freeaainnc: (I worked as a paid researcher for about 5 years before my current job so I'm speaking from experience)
3rdthawkins: ok, will do free
alt: truthfully 3rdthawkins, your research is too 'recent' for areas of expereince.
3rdthawkins: forgive me alt
jhonora: What time period 3rdthawkins?
freeaainnc: I would get so frustrated spending an hour getting a particular document only to be told "oh, I already have that!"
3rdthawkins: between 1920 and 1930 jhonora
jhonora: What time period 3rd?
3rdthawkins: lol free
jhonora: Are you familiar with Savanah to NYC move?
3rdthawkins: I would be considerate to inform them free no jhonora
alt: you're forgiven and that was a comment meant in good taste not as jab, but to reflect the areas of research that is different for us.
freeaainnc: yep b/c even if u don't, you are still responsible to pay them even if they waste time looking for something you already have lol
3rdthawkins: though one of my great granduncles married a woman who was from Georgia, her and her brother both moved to NY, that's why I am researching, wondering if they came with their "wives" or if they happened to meet them in NY. ok alt, thanks my great grandfather came to NY from SC and married a woman from VA right alt, I understand, I thought you all would be familiar sense you have at some point researched that era/time period but I guess different strokes for different folks
freeaainnc: well, I've done research during that time period, but different circumstances
3rdthawkins: right free
alt: Well 3rdthawkins, fro me from 1910 forward is contemporary for my parents and I have availability to all of those records here in the home area.
freeaainnc: my own research, my mom's side of the family lived in IL since 1820ish (before it was a state) and my dad's side always lived in NC since about 1770ish and they all lived around the same area so I didn't have to worry about migration and where they met etc like you are working with
3rdthawkins: I see free wish my great grandfather had of stayed in SC
freeaainnc: and with my research on free African American in antebellum NC, it's antebellum so the time frame is different than what you are working with. I think this is all an example of what alt meant lol 3rd! everyone wishes something was different to make it easier to trace
3rdthawkins: you all just started waay before I did, so not concerned about what I am doing
alt: I run into your situation in helping other folks and I find the more I know of the life styles, occupations, education. religion, community the more I can uncover about them not just from their records but the records of their comtemporaries.
3rdthawkins: I need to find someone "my age"
freeaainnc: what is your age 3rd?
Ingrid_Doweary: Just deal with what you have control of, 3rd. Helps keep you sane.
jhonora: Very true alt.
freeaainnc: totally agree alt all of that helps to answer what 3rd is looking for wb jhonora
Ingrid_Doweary: wb Jhonora.
3rdthawkins: well, as far as when my ancestors were born opposed to/versus when you all's ancestors were born and when you all started vs. when I started, no real literal age
freeaainnc: 3rd and it's not that we're not concerned about what you are doing 3rd I'm 34. I started when I was 11
Ingrid_Doweary: True, Free.
3rdthawkins: see, that's what I mean
freeaainnc: I started out WRONG as can be b/c I didn't know anyone who could help
seraph1959: hello
freeaainnc: hi seraph
3rdthawkins: though you are only 3 years older than me.............hello seraph
alt: it isn't a 'lack of interest' problem.. seems more ancestral & generational in the research approach. I"m impressed with what you have accomplished
3rdthawkins: jhonora is about 10 years younger, but started same time you did
Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Seraph1959
freeaainnc: 3rd it wasn't until I was about 16 and on the internet that I met folks in chats who helped me and gave me advice that I listened to and that is the only reason I am where I am with my research
seraph1959: Got a call from Jen that vkn is in Feb. Essence , that is so cool .
freeaainnc: wow seraph! cool, I'll have to check it out
Ingrid_Doweary: A 2nd cousin who is about maybe 6 yrs younger than me, inspired me with her Family Reunion Exhibit of a census record.
alt: hello seraph1959 .. Happy New Year!!!!!! LOL
seraph1959: Happy New Year geeze has it been that long?
Ingrid_Doweary: Yes seraph1959! Isn't it wonderful. and Happy New Year to you also.
freeaainnc: 3rd I understand where u are coming from, I was in your shoes before as all of us were at one point
jhonora: free, you started at 11. You beat me by two years.
seraph1959: Everyone plugging along in their research ?
freeaainnc: lol jhonora! yep! on AOL I was always the youngest genealogist and started the earliest and took a lot of pride in that until I turned about 25 and then all the sudden I was no longer the youngest LOL
alt: 3rd, we are not here to abuse you. maybe slap you around occasionally, but not to abuse you LOL lOL
freeaainnc: jhonora I had a hard time giving that title up lol
3rdthawkins: :o ok alt
jhonora: Well your topic is so significant you'll be in demand for a good while.
freeaainnc: jhonora - me? why thank you I'm glad I started out so young b/c it gave me a chance to spend over 20 years on my own family and now I have time to work on my current projects lol 3rd!!
seraph1959: Maybe to give you a hard time but not to abuse 3rd :-)
3rdthawkins: ok, thx
freeaainnc: 3rd we may be hard on you, but that is b/c we are coming from a place of experience and don't want you to make mistakes we may have made ourselves hi keli1
3rdthawkins: hello keli1
keli1: good afternoon everyone!
alt: hello keli1.. how goes it?
keli1: I am glad to see you are still here. All is well here@Alt
freeaainnc: brb, need some lunch, I'm hungry! wow, it's almost 2 here!
Ingrid_Doweary: Hey Keli1!
alt: time for me to split... nap time LOL later's y'all
Ingrid_Doweary: Laters Alt.
3rdthawkins: later alt
keli1: hi Ingrid, how are you
seraph1959: hi Keli1
Ingrid_Doweary: I'm good thanks for asking. How are you, Keli1?
keli1: doing okay, just returned, went to the grocery, it is nice outside here in Central VA
seraph1959: good to hear you are mot snowed in Keli
Ingrid_Doweary: You just got rain and now snow, Keli!? Keli!=Keli1
freeaainnc: 3rd, I just had a thought... have you checked with the state library of NY? if they have a genealogy dept., you should be able to write into them and ask questions and they may be able to help you I'm a genealogy reference librarian at the state library of NC and that is exactly what my job is - to respond to questions our library receives for genealogy research assistance I look in our books at the library here for them and also give advice on their next step we have guidelines for how to ask questions at our library, so be sure to check their website to see if there are any there
seraph1959: Take care , see you all around.
freeaainnc: bye seraph
Ingrid_Doweary: Bye seraph1959
keli1: we don't have anything but a bit of snow on the ground, it is all melting
3rdthawkins: you know what free, I called them, and all he did was send me a list for professional genealogist to hire
freeaainnc: really?? that's too bad
Ingrid_Doweary: Okay. A few feet melting here in DC/
3rdthawkins: they don't help with genealogy unless you pay
keli1: I forget you are in DC
freeaainnc: oy! I hate that but kinda understand
jhonora: I'm heading out y'all. Take care and happy hunting
Ingrid_Doweary: Cya Jhonora.
freeaainnc: what about a public library in the county where your ancestors resided?
3rdthawkins: that's why it's frustrating free, it seems all the avenues in NY been a bust, and I just about exhausted them that's the one I'm talking about free
freeaainnc: some of them have genealogy reference librarians
keli1: what are you looking for? if I may ask
freeaainnc: oh! well I meant before the State Library, not a local public library
Ingrid_Doweary: Things aren't always what them, 3rd. Step away for a breather and try back.
3rdthawkins: I even chatted with one online and they gave me a number to call, I called to get a look up in the city directory, as I said, he sent a letter with a list of genealogist
freeaainnc: but 3rd, the public libraries and the state library are 2 different things
3rdthawkins: maybe I'll check the state Lib free
freeaainnc: yes, check the state library state libraries are usually more government centered (they are there for the politicians in the state legislature usually), but if they have a genealogy dept., they should be able to help, and write in or email, don't just call
3rdthawkins: ok
freeaainnc: a lot of times if you just call, they can't do much for you, but if you write, they may have a specific genealogy reference librarian like me who responds to all the email and letters sent in
keli1: I have great luck with historical societies
freeaainnc: but of course not all of them are as good as me hehe\
3rdthawkins: I cant get one of them to respond keli1
keli1: ingrid do you make it to the archives? 3rd, are you a member?
3rdthawkins: nope
freeaainnc: 3rd, have patience with genealogy and historical societies as they are often volunteer staffed only
keli1: what county are you looking for in NY
3rdthawkins: patience is one thing, volunteer or not, when somebody writes a letter, Respond to it, one way or another Queens keli1
keli1: I am sure you already used the online resources right?
Ingrid_Doweary: I'm volunteering as a genealogy aide when my day job work schedule permits, Keli1.
3rdthawkins: what online resources?
freeaainnc: well, true 3rd, but it took me almost 5 or 6 months to get a response to my question
3rdthawkins: oh, ok free, it's been almost or close to that, so, ok
freeaainnc: ancestry, HQ, footnote, RAOGK, rootsweb for starters
keli1: familysearch.org
3rdthawkins: rootsweb for NY?
freeaainnc: USGenweb I meant
keli1: there are two sites on familysearch, are you close to a family history center?
freeaainnc: but rootsweb has the mailing lists and I'm sure there are tons for NY
3rdthawkins: oh, ok, you know, I have to try free I have to try that for NY free
freeaainnc: have you tried familysearch or RAOGK?
keli1: give me the surname and year and I will check familysearch right quick
3rdthawkins: Ancestry and Familysearch doesn't have too much for NY in the time period I am searching, footnote I do not have, RAOGK I may try
keli1: I have it up worldvitalrecords is another one I use
freeaainnc: 3rd - do you know what RAOGK is/does?
3rdthawkins: well keli1, it's not so much the surname, since I am researching betwaeen 1920 and 1930 and trying to track down my great grandmother and her parents so I can find them in 1920 yeah, I used them once before free
freeaainnc: ok 3rd, great! well maybe you can use it again to find someone to check the city directory you were looking for before
keli1: okay give me the names and area and let me check, also your email, in case I find something, you are trying to locate them via 1930
3rdthawkins: I need marriage record/license, city directory, something like that to know when they came to NY and where they were living before 1930 keli1
keli1: sometimes another set of eyes will see something you haven't
freeaainnc: right, exactly I need to go folks, got a lot of stuff I need to do around the apt.
keli1: okay, we are looking prior to 1930, are they in Queens in 1930?
freeaainnc: bye folks
keli1: byeeee free!
Ingrid_Doweary: Bye Free
3rdthawkins: iot's the same from a couple weeks ago keli1, the ones from Virginia, my great grandmother Mada Ruth Jefferson. I think the Mada may stand for something like Madaline, she was born about 1910 in Virginia, as was her parents. Her father's name was James Jefferson and mothers' name Anna Roxianna, I believe first and middle name, maiden name not known
keli1: do you know where in VA?
3rdthawkins: keli1, my great grandmother was living in Queens with her husband (my great grandfather) Dennis Hawkins, name transcribed on Ancestry as Harokins..............no don't know where in VA information comes from 1930 census and my great grandmother's death certificate I believe she was white
keli1: are they still alive? Mada Ruth?
3rdthawkins: no, I have her death certificate, she died in 1930s also have my great grandfather's death certificate, he died in the 1940s
keli1: all of them born in VA to your knowledge
3rdthawkins: yep my great grandfather was from South Carolina
keli1: which could mean different things when dealing with VA is dennis your ggrandfather
3rdthawkins: I don't know if Ruth's parents came with her to NY or stayed in VA yes keli1
keli1: do you have an approx age or birth year
3rdthawkins: I have found him in census keli1 in Berkeley County propr to 1930 living w ith his parents, he was born abt 1903 or 1905, but I have him
keli1: berkeley county west VA?
3rdthawkins: no, South Carolina forgot there's was anotehr one hehe
keli1: you are after Mada Ruth Jefferson, right how old was Mada when she died and what if any type of work did she do or her husband
3rdthawkins: yes, and her parents.........she was abt 25 and he was about 38. He wa a chauffer (sp) at the time of his death, she was a housewife at the time of her death
keli1: trying to get a range for her birth year, 1910, right?
3rdthawkins: in 1930 he was an auto mechanic......yes, 1910 1910-1936 for her, abt 1903-1943 for him
keli1: wait she was born in 1910 and died in 1930s?
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: what was mada husband's name, if she married
3rdthawkins: Dennis Hawkins
keli1: she was a youngin', did they have children
3rdthawkins: yeah, 4
keli1: wow...you tracked them all?
Ingrid_Doweary: Isn't that something/
3rdthawkins: my grandmother waas born in 1930, about 3 months after the census enumeration...........well, I had got in contact with my grandmother's niece, we are both looking for more info on Mada Jefferson her parents, grandparents, greats, etc.
keli1: james jefferson is common in VA
3rdthawkins: siblings
keli1: I do see a James Jefferson b. 1893, living in Roanoke, with wife Anna Jefferson
3rdthawkins: what year? any children?
keli1: they are Negro 1930 census, were they still alive?
3rdthawkins: oh, ok, I believe my great grandmother was white/rish
keli1: Dorothy, James Jr. and Allen
3rdthawkins: not sure about my great grandmother's parents, have not located them in 1930
keli1: head of household is Negro, do those children ring a bell
3rdthawkins: don't know if they were living in VA or NY in 1930 no, they don't
keli1: what are Anna and James's children's names
3rdthawkins: I just know Ruth
keli1: okay, Ruth is one child, good
3rdthawkins: the only info I have on my grandmother's mother is my grandmother's SSA, the 1930 census, and her mother's DC
keli1: that would be Ruth Hawkins right?
3rdthawkins: yes, keli1, last week I was searching, and I found a Madaline Ruth Jefferies in Texas, so that helped me determine that Mada could be a shorten form of Madaline/Madline, etc., my grandmother just wrote Mada on her SSA, also it is written that wy on my grandmother's DC
keli1: I was thinking of Mary, Madaline, Mattie..etc. Mary Ann
Ingrid_Doweary: It's my time to signoff. Happy hunting folks.
3rdthawkins: ok Ingrid
Ingrid_Doweary: Bye
keli1: what's your email?
3rdthawkins: firstname.lastname@example.com
keli1: what is your first name
3rdthawkins: Thomas
keli1: hi Thomas, I am Shelley
3rdthawkins: nice to meet you
keli1: lol, I live in Virginia, lol
3rdthawkins: :} and I live in Missouri
keli1: where did Mada and Dennis get married
3rdthawkins: don't know, not sure, but I am thinking New York around 1929 their ages at first marriage in the 1930 census was the same as their stated age
keli1: is dennis's parents or others in his family Levy and Jessie? b. 1904 in Berkeley
3rdthawkins: yes, those are his parents yes, that is him
keli1: that is in 1920
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: so he was not married in 1920
3rdthawkins: no
keli1: so he and mada were only together about 10 yrs, hmmmm
3rdthawkins: not sure ten, may be shorter than that
keli1: and had 4 kids
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: so dennis was still in SC in 1910
3rdthawkins: yep
keli1: have you checked for Mada and Dennis getting married in SC, wonder where they met, if she was born in VA, he is SC and they moved to NY
3rdthawkins: no, I can check though it's hard in Berkeley County, I couldn't get a marriage rec for my other grandparents in SC, and I think/thought they married in Berkeley Co. also could not get a marri rec for Dennis' parents, so it is tough in Berkeley Co.
keli1: he is still with parents in 1920 in SC, when and what made him leave for NY to meet
3rdthawkins: well, as what I have seen on the 1930 census for Queens Co. NY, a lot of folks moved from the south to NY, and there are a tons from South Carolina, including some of Dennis' siblings, and those siblings' spouses are from different states from the south I'm thinking a occupational better living, better opportunities this is between 1920 and 1930
keli1: still thinking of how they met...it is unusal for the woman to migrate, but not a male are in NY
3rdthawkins: I know, you're right, wondering if she came with her parents if she was from VA
keli1: right, just a thought, the marriage would be key, if they married in SC, I can see them leaving, but again where did they meet in SC...I just love this, I am working on a presentation on migrations, so it is interesting
3rdthawkins: on Dennis' death certificate (he died 1943) it said he was in the state for 15 years, which would put his arrival at 1928. He would have married Ruth in abt 1929 or early 1930, like Jan, and they were enumerated April 1930 and my grandmother was born that Aug (1930) well great, I was looking for someone who was working or as worked on migration as-has the 1928 is interesting, maybe it is a coincidence, but on his brother's obit (2003/'04), it said the Hawkins sibings went to NY in 1928
keli1: did you check for marriage records in SC for them
3rdthawkins: not yet, I will call the probate court, that's all I can do for now, they have no records online or anywhere else it is hard trying to track them down ,becaue they could have married in any adjacent county in SC
keli1: girls like to marry by their momma's, wondering if the Jefferson's lived in or near NY
3rdthawkins: but I am planning on ordering my grandmother's birth certificate, so hoping that will shed some light on her mother's birth place


text:
Currently prices for all grades of pumpkin are stable largely on account of the fact that, so far at least, crop conditions look good. It is possible that, if these good conditions persist, we may see a gradual weakening of prices.
The drought conditions affecting the north west of China (mostly Gansu, Shaanxi and Ningxia provinces) are not affecting pumpkin given the fact that pumpkin is generally planted on irrigated land.
Despite the overall decline in shine skin prices since last year's crop, the important north western Chinese provinces of Xingjiang and Inner Mongolia have both noticed an increase in plantings. This comes, however, as a surprise on the back of earlier relative price weakness which was said to have discouraged the cultivation of shine skin grades. On the other hand, GWS – which is now unusually priced at a premium to shine skin grades – is evidencing a decline in plantings. This is paradoxical given the fact that, of the two main grades, GWS has shown the greater price strength over the last few months. But the real reason behind GWS's decline is the fact that it is not consumed by the domestic Chinese market and, instead, is sold solely for export. And meanwhile, the fact that there are still quite high stocks of shine skin pumpkin – possibly amounting to 30,000 tons - strongly suggests poor export demand from both Europe and the US, although care has to be taken in the interpretation of these figures as some Xingiang stocks (in particular) are of poor quality with illegally high pesticide levels.
If all these factors – good weather conditions, poor demand, high stocks - continue, then it is quite possible that we will see price declines for new crop shine skin. But It is still too early to be definitive about this given the fact that new crop harvesting will only start in September/October.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
1) Why is it necessary for the federal government to require that institutions review proposed research projects? Don't all researchers take the appropriate steps to protect subjects on their own?
The vast majority of researchers plan and conduct their research in accordance with sound ethical principles. However, there is adequate documentation that some investigators do not take the necessary steps, either through conscious choice or as a result of ignorance, to protect the individuals who volunteer to participate in their research. When the researcher is affiliated with an academic institution, repercussions for failing to protect subjects affect not only the investigator, but the institution as well. For this reason, oversight by an institutional review board is necessary to ensure that projects include the appropriate safeguards to protect human subjects. The federal regulations found at 45 CFR 46 and 21 CFR describe those protections and form the basis for IRB policy.1) Why is it necessary for the federal government to require that institutions review proposed research projects? Don't all researchers take the appropriate steps to protect subjects on their own?
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2) What are the criteria for IRB review of a protocol?
When reviewing a protocol, the IRB must make the following determinations:
- Risks to subjects are minimized: (i) by using procedures which are consistent with sound research design and which do not unnecessarily expose subjects to risk, and (ii) whenever appropriate, by using procedures already being performed on the subjects for diagnostic or treatment purposes.
- Risks to subjects are reasonable in relation to anticipated benefits, if any, to subjects, and the importance of the knowledge that may reasonably be expected to result. In evaluating risks and benefits, the IRB should consider only those risks and benefits that may result from the research (as distinguished from risks and benefits of therapies subjects would receive even if not participating in the research). The IRB should not consider possible long-range effects of applying knowledge gained in the research (for example, the possible effects of the research on public policy) as among those research risks that fall within the purview of its responsibility.
- Selection of subjects is equitable. In making this assessment the IRB should take into account the purposes of the research and the setting in which the research will be conducted and should be particularly cognizant of the special problems of research involving vulnerable populations, such as children, prisoners, pregnant women, mentally disable persons, or economically or educationally disadvantaged persons.
- Informed consent will be sought from each prospective subject or the subject's legally authorized representative, in accordance with, and to the extent required by §46.116.
- Informed consent will be appropriately documented, in accordance with, and to the extent required by §46.117.
- When appropriate, the research plan makes adequate provision for monitoring the data collected to ensure the safety of subjects.
- When appropriate, there are adequate provisions to protect the privacy of subjects and to maintain the confidentiality of data.
When some or all of the subjects are likely to be vulnerable to coercion or undue influence, such as children, prisoners, pregnant women, mentally disabled persons, or economically or educationally disadvantaged persons, additional safeguards have been included in the study to protect the rights and welfare of these subjects.
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3) What are the different types of IRB review, and how do they differ from one another?
There are three levels of IRB review: exemption, expedited review, and full review.
Exemption: Protocols that present extremely low levels of risk to participants and include only procedures described in six specific categories of research may qualify for exemption. The investigator must complete a Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1), attach a copy of the research protocol and all relevant documents, and submit the packet electronically to the IRB for review. After administrative review is completed, the investigator is notified of the outcome by email.
Expedited Review: Protocols that present no more than minimal risk to subjects and include only procedures described in nine specific categories of research may qualify for expedited review. The investigator must complete a Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1), attach a copy of the research protocol and all relevant documents, and submit of the entire packet to the IRB for review. After review by the assigned IRB members, the investigator is advised of the outcome by email.
Full Review: Protocols that do not meet the criteria for either exemption or expedited review must be reviewed by the convened IRB. The investigator must complete a Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1), attach a copy of the research protocol and all relevant documents, and submit the entire packet to the IRB for review. After preliminary review by two IRB members, the protocol is presented and discussed at a convened meeting of the full IRB. The investigator is notified of the outcome shortly after the meeting by email.
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4) How is minimal risk defined?
A risk is minimal where the probability and magnitude of harm or discomfort anticipated in the proposed research are not greater, in and of themselves, than those ordinarily encountered in daily life or during the performance of routine physical or psychological examinations or tests [Federal Policy 45 CFR 46.102(i)]. For example, the risk of drawing a small amount of blood from a healthy individual for research purposes is no greater than the risk of doing so as part of routine physical examination.
The definition of minimal risk for research involving prisoners differs somewhat from that given for non-institutionalized adults. Per 45 CFR 46.303, when prisoners are subjects in research, "minimal risk" is the probability and magnitude of physical or psychological harm that is normally encountered in the daily lives, or in the routine medical, dental, or psychological examination of healthy persons.
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5) What is the deadline for submission of protocols for IRB review or exemption?
Investigators requesting full or expedited review of a protocol should submit the Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1) and all relevant attachments to the IRB office no later than the 1st of the month preceding the IRB meeting at which it will be reviewed. For example, submit by May 1 for the May IRB meeting.
The IRB meets monthly.
Applications for Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1) that meet the criteria for Exemption are accepted throughout the month, and reviewed on a rolling basis. There is no disruption of the exemption review process in the summer.
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6) If the project will not be completed by the IRB expiration date, what is the procedure for requesting continuation?
Federal regulations require that all non-exempt protocols involving human subjects be reviewed by the IRB at least annually. If any project, including data analysis, will not be completed by the approved IRB expiration date, then the investigator must complete a Renewal Application and return it to the IRB not less than two months prior to the original expiration date so that there is no interruption in the approval period.
Enrollment of new subjects cannot occur on a project if it becomes inactive. In addition, research intervention or interaction with already enrolled subjects must stop if a project becomes inactive unless the IRB determines that it is in the best interest of individual subjects to continue. If a protocol becomes inactive, submission of a new Human Subjects Review Form(HRS-1) may be required.
Research designated as Exemptions do not have expiration dates; therefore, continuing review is not required.
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7) Submitting an Amendment to an Existing Protocol (including Exempt): When it is necessary to change or add procedures on an approved protocol, what is the process for obtaining IRB approval of the change?
Note that any deviation from the approved research protocol must be reviewed by the IRB prior to implementation of those changes. For example, any changes in the consent form or the questionnaires/interview guides must be submitted to the IRB prior to use.
To request an amendment (change) or addendum (addition) to an approved protocol, send an electronic copy of the amendment request to the chair of the IRB Committee.
Include the following information: description of the change or addition, rationale for the modification, unmarked copy of new documents (e.g., consent form, study instrument, advertisement), and the revised documents (noting all changes by bolding additions and deletions via strikethrough; or via the track-changes feature in MSWord).
After IRB review, a Notice of Approval or revised Notice of Exemption will be emailed to the investigator. Changes to approved protocols may not be implemented until the change is approved by the IRB. Amendments to non-exempt protocols must be submitted by the 1st of the month for review at that month's IRB meeting.
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8) What are the researcher's responsibilities if an adverse or unexpected event occurs on an approved protocol?
An Adverse/Unexpected Event is defined as: (1) any medical, psychological or behavioral event that is undesirable and unintended, although not necessarily unexpected; (2) an event in which the outcome is fatal or life threatening, causes permanent disability, causes hospitalization or prolongation of hospitalization; (3) an overdose; or (4) a complaint by a research subject or family member of a research subject concerning the research or the protocol.
If an adverse or unexpected event occurs on an approved protocol, the investigator is required to submit an Adverse/Unexpected Event Report to the IRB. The form and specific instructions may be downloaded from the IRB website. The investigators must notify the IRB in a timely manner (within 48 hours of the event).
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9) What kind of review is needed for class-related projects?
For research done within an undergraduate class as a class project, the instructor should submit a Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1) with Department Chair approval for a course in which research is students commonly do research (rather than students submitting independently for approval). The instructor takes on full responsibility for monitoring the protection of human subjects, student training and keeping the project within the bounds of the IRB guidelines.
Undergraduate students doing independent senior theses, undergraduate research studies/projects, graduate students doing a master's research studies, and similar exercises must independently submit a Human Subjects Review Form (HRS-1) to the IRB as a student-researcher. A supervising faculty member ultimately is responsible for the protection of the subjects, even if the student is the primary researcher and actually directs the project. During the design of a project, the supervising faculty member should instruct students on the ethical conduct of research, help the student prepare the application for IRB approval, and review the application prior to submission. In particular, students should:
- understand the elements of informed consent,
- develop a readable consent form following the sample,
- plan appropriate recruitment strategies for identifying subjects,
- establish and maintain strict guidelines for protecting anonymity and confidentiality, and
- allow sufficient time for IRB review and completion of the project.
As assurance that the University's guidelines will be followed, the supervising faculty member is required to sign the student's application for IRB approval and obtain the Chair's signature prior to submission.
After IRB approval, the supervising faculty member should take an active role in ensuring that projects are conducted in accordance with the IRB's requirements. Meeting periodically with students to review their progress is one way to meet this responsibility.
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10) Who needs to obtain IRB approval?
The scope of the Institutional Review Board's (IRB) charge is broad. Generally, any University research that uses humans, human tissue, surveys of human subjects, or human subjects' records requires IRB review. The IRB's charge extends to research in the social and behavioral sciences as well as research in the health and biological sciences.
IRB review and approval is required for any research involving human subjects that:
- is conducted by University faculty, staff, students
- is performed on the premises of the University,
- is performed with or involves the use of facilities or equipment belonging to the University;
- involves University students, staff, or faculty;
- involves Davenport University data
- satisfies a requirement imposed by the University for a degree program or for completion of a course of study; or
- is certified by an institutional official to satisfy an obligation of a faculty appointment at the University, including clinical or adjunct appointments.
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11) To whom should I submit my IRB application?
Submit the completed Human Subjects Review (HRS-1) with certificate(s) of completion of Human Subjects training to email@example.com.
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|Informed Consent FAQ's
Informed consent is one of the primary ethical requirements underpinning research with human subjects; it reflects the basic principle of respect for persons. It is too often forgotten that informed consent is an ongoing process, not a piece of paper or a discrete moment in time. Informed consent assures that prospective human subjects will understand the nature of the research and can knowledgeably and voluntarily decide whether or not to participate. The prospective subject should be presented with the information, then given an opportunity to ask questions and have them answered, prior to signing the consent document.
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2) What information should be included in a consent document?
(a) Basic elements of informed consent:
- a statement that the study involves research, an explanation of the purposes of the research and the expected duration of the subject's participation, a description of the procedures to be followed, and identification of any procedures which are experimental;
- a description of any reasonably foreseeable risks or discomforts to the subject;
- a description of any benefits to the subject or to others which may reasonably be expected from the research;
- a disclosure of appropriate alternative procedures or courses of treatment, if any, that might be advantageous to the subject;
- a statement describing the extent, if any, to which confidentiality of records identifying the subject will be maintained;
- for research involving more than minimal risk, an explanation as to whether any compensation and an explanation as to whether any medical treatments are available if injury occurs and, if so, what they consist of, or where further information may be obtained;
- an explanation of whom to contact for answers to pertinent questions about the research and research subjects' rights, and whom to contact in the event of a research-related injury to the subject
- a statement that participation is voluntary, refusal to participate will involve no penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled, and the subject may discontinue participation at any time without penalty or loss of benefits to which the subject is otherwise entitled.
(b) additional elements of informed consent. When appropriate, one or more of the following elements of information shall also be provided to each subject:
- a statement that the particular treatment or procedure may involve risks to the subject (or to the embryo or fetus, if the subject is or may become pregnant) which are currently unforeseeable;
- anticipated circumstances under which the subject's participation may be terminated by the investigator without regard to the subject's consent;
- any additional costs to the subject that may result from participation in the research;
- the consequences of a subject's decision to withdraw from the research and procedures for orderly termination of participation by the subject;
- A statement that significant new findings developed during the course of the research which may relate to the subject's willingness to continue participation will be provided to the subject; and
- the approximate number of subjects involved in the study.
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3) Are sample consent forms available for review?
Yes. Sample consent forms may be found within the Informed Consent guidance material that is available online on the Institutional Review Board website. Sample forms are presented to provide guidance to researchers from various disciplines. Additional forms may be added periodically.
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Assent is defined as, "A child's affirmative agreement to participate in research. Mere failure to object should not be construed as assent [45 CFR 46.402(b)]". While children may be legally incapable of giving informed consent, they nevertheless may possess the ability to assent to or dissent from participation. Out of respect for children as developing persons, children should be asked whether or not they wish to participate in the research, particularly if the research: (1) does not involve interventions likely to be of benefit to the subjects; and (2) the children can comprehend and appreciate what it means to be a volunteer for the benefit of others. The IRB must determine for each protocol - depending on such factors as the nature of the research and the age, status, and condition of the proposed subjects - whether all or some of the children are capable of assenting to participation. Where appropriate, IRB's may choose to review on a case-by-case basis whether assent should be sought from given individual subjects.
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5) Under what conditions may documentation of informed consent be waived?
The IRB may waive the requirement for written documentation of informed consent, if it finds and documents either of the following:
a. Signed consent is the only record linking the subject to the research and the greatest risk of the research is a breach of confidentiality; b. The research presents no more than minimal risk and involves procedures for which consent wouldn't normally be obtained outside of the research context.
In situations in which signed consent will not be obtained, it is often advisable to present subjects with an information sheet or letter that contains the elements of informed consent, for their future reference.
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6) Under what conditions may some or all of the elements of informed consent be waived?
Consent is required from any human subject in research unless informed consent has been specifically waived by the IRB. The IRB may waive consent under two sets of circumstances:
a. if the project involves no more than minimal risk; the waiver doesn't adversely affect subjects; the research couldn't practicably carried out without the waiver; and, where appropriate, subjects are given information about the project afterwards.
b. the research or demonstration project is to be conducted by or subject to the approval of state or local government officials and is designed to study, evaluate, or otherwise examine: (i) public benefit or service programs; (ii) procedures for obtaining benefits or services under those programs; (iii) possible changes in or alternatives to those programs or procedures; or (iv) possible changes in methods or levels of payment for benefits or services under those programs; and the research could not practicably be carried out without the waiver or alteration.
Otherwise, written informed consent must be obtained. For additional information, review the applicable federal regulation online at 45 CFR 46.116.
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|Population Methodology FAQ's
1) How do the regulations apply to Oral History projects?
If the archived data will be made publicly available then the research must be prospectively reviewed and approved by the IRB before the research project begins. The IRB requires that the researcher make provisions for obtaining informed consent from all participants and document the process. Participants in oral history projects should be allowed to review the material prior to public archive and decide if they wish any or all of the oral history archived.
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2) What additional requirements apply to research with prisoners?
Under the terms of 45 CFR 46, Subpart C, prisoners are considered to be members of a vulnerable population and therefore entitled to special protections if they participate in research activities. Subpart C defines both the types of permissible research with prisoners, and the safeguards that must be followed. For additional information, review the regulations.
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3) For collaborative research at outside facilities, is IRB approval from both the Davenport and the IRB of the outside facility required?
Yes. As a result, investigators who propose to conduct research at an outside facility need to submit documentation to both Davenport IRB and the IRB for the outside facility.
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4) When is a Certificate of Confidentiality required?
A Certificate of Confidentiality is issued by a federal agency when protection against compelled disclosure of identifying information about subjects of biomedical, behavioral, clinical, and other research is necessary. For additional information, review the information posted by the federal Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS).
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Investigators who are considering submitting an application for a Certificate of Confidentiality are advised to plan well in advance, as the process can be very lengthy. If participation in research is likely to place an individual at risk of criminal liability, the IRB may require that a Certificate be obtained.
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|Certification Program FAQ's
1) What is the Human Subjects Certification Program (HSCP)?
HSCP is a web-based education program for all principal investigators, other key personnel and Department Chairs who are named on protocols that involve human subjects. As a requirement for an assurance of compliance, which allows an institution to receive federal funding for research involving human subjects, the federal Office for Human Research Protections (OHRP) has mandated that principal investigators and other key personnel involved in human subject protocols participate in education designed to increase understanding of the regulations, policies, and ethical standards governing the protection of human subjects.
The education program provides the means to satisfy the education requirement of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). All principal investigators and key personnel who are involved in human subject research for which funding by NIH is requested or has been awarded must participate in education on the protection of human subjects in research. Certification of successful completion of the education program is required before NIH funds will be awarded for competing applications or contract proposals involving human subjects. Investigators submitting non-competing renewal applications for grants or annual reports for contracts that involve human subject research must also include the certification in their annual progress reports.
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2) Obtaining certification for Human Subjects Certification Program (HSCP):
All researchers, key personnel and Department Chairs signing an IRB application ARE REQUIRED to complete a Human Subjects Certification Program (HSCP). Any NIH or NIH approved training program that provides a certificate upon completion will meet this requirement. The DU IRB recommends the NIH site found at http://phrp.nihtraining.com/users/login.php. Once registered, please select the Basic Research training. Please print the certificate once the training is completed and submit with your IRB applications. Certification is good for one year from the date of completion.
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3) What is the process for securing a letter for NIH, certifying successful completion of education in the protection of human subjects for all key personnel?
IRB staff will generate the letter of education certification upon request by the investigator, or in response to a request by NIH. Certification of all individuals named as key personnel in the grant application or contract proposal who are affiliated with DU will be verified internally. Key personnel who are not affiliated with DU may satisfy the education requirement by either of two methods: a) successfully complete the DU online education program; or b) provide written certification from their institution that they have successfully completed a comparable program. Key personnel who have no contact with human subjects, or with confidential data about human subjects are exempt from the education requirement; however, the principal investigator must provide this information to IRB in writing.
|For more information, email the Chair of the IRB at firstname.lastname@example.com
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text:
The U. S. Geological Survey (USGS) has released its first assessment of the Utica Shale in the United States and reported that this formation holds 38 trillion cubic feet of undiscovered, technically recoverable natural gas (mean estimate).
The USGS also said that the Utica Shale contains a mean of 940 million barrels of crude oil resources and 9 million barrels of natural gas liquids. Although most industry development has been in Ohio and Pennsylvania, the survey also assessed the Upper Ordovician Utica Shale in Maryland, New York, Virginia, and West Virginia.
The estimated range of undiscovered resources is as follows:
Crude oil - 590 million barrels to 1.39 billion barrels
Natural gas - 21 to 61 TCF
Natural gas liquids - 4 to 16 million barrels
The USGS defines technically recoverable oil and gas resources as "those quantities of oil and gas producible using currently available technology and industry practices, regardless of economic or accessibility considerations." Here is a map of the area assessed by the USGS


text:
Monday, September 26, 2011
Thank You
15 comments:
- Heather said...
Oh Alisa!!! I didn't know she had passed, I am SO sorry. I figured something was up, but didn't know. I feel terrible that I wasn't able to send my condolences.
This is a beautiful post, and I love the insight you shared.
Sending love and prayers!
- September 26, 2011 at 9:31 PM
- Robin Thomas said...
Oh gee Alisa,
Thiss took my breath away.
I am so glad you were there for her
- September 26, 2011 at 10:00 PM
- Charlene said...
Alisa what a great post!!! I had no idea what you were going through but, I LOVE the story of how 2 who thought they didn't like each other became soooooooo very close. HEALING HUGS SENT YOUR WAY! Can't wait to see your pretty. Charlene
- September 26, 2011 at 10:09 PM
- Jillayne said...
This post and the last are two of the most beautiful I have ever read....
There are not many people outside of our family who can take all we have, can hear the hard stuff, and can laugh with us at the end of a rant. You were lucky you found that together, she was lucky she recognized who you were. Wonderful memories...
- September 26, 2011 at 10:15 PM
- Tina @ TinyBear said...
What a beautiful post Alisa - so thoughing.
Sending lots of thought, prayers and hugs your way.
xo Tina
- September 27, 2011 at 12:43 AM
- Dorthe said...
Dear Alisa-such a beautiful post,
life with its downs and ups, --you was brave to accept your mil, living together with you- and got a beautiful gift, from doing it- love in return, for both of you.
- September 27, 2011 at 3:59 AM
- Sandy Michelle said...
I'm so sorry for your loss Alisa! What a touching post!!!
- September 27, 2011 at 7:26 AM
- kandeland said...
what a very beautiful post Alisa. it's amazing how life works out, and how things happen for a reason. wishing you and your family peace through your memories of her...xo
- September 27, 2011 at 8:52 AM
- Amanda said...
It bought tears to my eyes, so human and touching.
- September 27, 2011 at 9:44 AM
- Margaret said...
Beautiful tribute to your MIL ALisa. My thoughts are with you and yours at this time Mx
- September 27, 2011 at 3:01 PM
- Suz said...
Dear Alisa,
I am so sorry to read this. I had no idea. This is so full of true emotions. I love the "realness" of who you are.
I loved the post before this one, too. that is undoubtedly one of my favorite writings about dying.
Hugs and prayers,
- September 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I enjoyed reading about your mother-in-law. I can tell you were a wonderful daughter-in-law. She was blessed to have you--and you her.
- September 27, 2011 at 10:40 PM
- Tiedupmemories said...
It's been awhile and what a memorable post. Thinking of you. My condolences to you and your family. Your floral photos are simply gorgeous! Very inspiring.
- September 28, 2011 at 6:57 AM
Wow, Alisa, this is one of the most poignant eulogies I have ever read. Beautiful.
God bless!
- September 28, 2011 at 7:17 AM
- Debe said...
Hugs and prayers to all of you. Time passes and things change, some good, some bad, always unexpected...I for one never thought you were a c... b... but what do I know? :<)
Hard thing...
- October 3, 2011 at 3:27 PM


text:
Pets, Pets, Pets
It's Sunday midnight and I am just starting this column. It should have been submitted hours ago. I have too many dogs (and cats) stuck in my brain at any given moment, so I am easily distracted from one to another. Certain online tasks instigate a form of Dog ADD (Dog Attention Deficit Disorder).
Here's a sampling of the hounds (besides my own Afghans) running around my head at the present time. It reads like the cast of "101 Dalmatians":
** Rescue Calendar: 'Tis the time of year that we put together the Afghan Hound Club of America rescue calendar. I am in the midst of editing the pinups' bios while Marilyn Danko in Missouri does all the graphics, photofinishing and layout. In her real job she teaches computerflying skills to Air Force pilots.There are about 30 short rescue stories from all over the US (like Atheem from a New Orleans backyard breeder who tricked his foster Connecticut parents into loving him forever and now rides around in a convertible listening to Cajun waltzes), that go back and forth between us because they mustfit in a small space. I hate taking a hatchet to the owners' heartfelt words, especially when the story is well-written but just too long. Calendars have a short saleable shelf life, so the sooner wefinish, the sooner they are printed in Iowa and the more we will sell to help future rescued Afghans. ** Photo Editing: I take most of my Babylon Shelter and Last Hope photos on Saturdays, and go through digital cameras as if they were pantyhose because unruly subjects, especially bulldozing Beagles, like to knock them out of my hand. It takes me forever to edit and label the pictures because my skills are pathetic, and because I have hundreds of similar Beagle and Pit pictures. I am so thankful for the computerfilter. Otherwise I would be spending the rest of my life searching for specific shots. If I type in a common name like "Coco," all sorts of pet photos pop out. It is an unwritten law that if I delete a photo, even a dog from years ago, that someone will ask me for that photo soon after.
** Hotline Calls: Certain Last Hope hotline calls are relayed to me. Many of the pleas for help do not return my call, or they are phantoms like Eagle Scout candidates that ask for project ideas and then disappear. Right now the calls include requests for free rabies shots, even though the clinic was, months ago, a Meet n Greet for "Drake," the Pit that spent over three years at Babylon Shelter; Scout tours and a dog adoption day invitation to Walgreens.
** Special Needs Pets:They need rescue; transport; rides to the vet or microchips registered. I get at least 100 emails a day from the West Virginia transport network. An Afghan Rescue friend from Philly adopted a Devon Rex mix kitten from Babylon Shelter several months ago. His wavy-haired mother is still waiting for a home and we are trying to network from afar.There are several bent-legged dogs in my head. "Autumn," the Retriever mix from Babylon, needs an orthopedic consult and probably surgery. Her x-rays are on the front seat of my car. "Claude," the Chihuahua with bent front feet, is still at Babylon and Last Hope now has "Lucky," a Beagle mix hit and left at the side of a Kentucky road. Some kind soul there paid for his hip surgery but after a month post-op Lucky is not putting weight on that hind leg. Oh, no!
** Woof Street Journal: I write a weekly online newsletter for the Last Hope dog volunteers. Adoption, foster, application and new arrival details are always changing. By the time the issue is ready for the email blast, the information is often different.
** Facebook:Theflagship of social media is a powerful rescue vessel yet most distracting and quite addictive. As an administrator for Last Hope and Babylon Shelter's Facebook page as well as my own page which is primarily rescue and Afghans, Ifind myself procrastinating about longer pieces I have to write while posting quick, "clever" rescue messages on Facebook.The trick is to engage your followers in the process. It's cheerleading with text rather than megaphones.The feedback is instantaneous while the audience vast. Facebookfinds great placements for homeless animals, and is a huge help to lost & found. I am fairly certain the Chihuahua found at Belmont Lake that I posted on Babylon Shelter's wall last weekend was the Chihuahua lost in Flushing that Queens friends tagged me in. He went home.
**National Dog Show: Speaking of Philly, I am going there this weekend to help compile the Best of Breed sheets for the NBC broadcast that will air onThanksgiving right after the Macy's parade. I am a bit nervous because, unlike Westminster spread out over two days, more than 180 AKC breeds and varieties will be judged in one day. And to complicate dogs in my head, while I am gone, I arranged for "Mickey," a young German Shepherd, to come to Last Hope in Wantagh because his Kentucky shelter is facing a mass euthanasia day. He's one of six starving Shepherds and Beagles surrendered by a man now in jail. My pal Burt will be picking "Mickey" up in Stamford, CT on Saturday night but I just learned he has to be at JFK airport to pick up his family at midnight. Oh, no!
Babylon Town Shelter Adoptables (631-643- 9270) Lamar St. W. Babylon: "Claude" #13-663 is the lovable Chihuahua with the Charlie Chaplin feet. He was surrendered because his owner is ill. The Devon Rex Mama #3-279 is in the lobby, and she seems to be okay with dogs.
More picks of the litter: "Mae," a brindle long timer; "Betty," the one-eyed Shih tzu; "Nikki," the Pit Mama.


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Can any one explain how the heat dampers work to regulate the top and bottom temps?
The dampers are just extensions of the deflectors under the stones. The bottom and side deflection is taking the rising heat, and, rather than sending it right into the stone (bottom heat), it's redirecting the heat up the sides of the oven and into the top of the baking chamber, heating the ceiling and the top of the pizza (top heat).2" thick bricks will take a while to pre-heat- most likely at least 2 hours. They will also stay hot long after you're closed. They should give you stellar recovery between pies, though. A thicker brick should be naturally more diffusive, so you might not need that much deflection underneath- especially since, as you add more mass (in the form of deflection), the greater the extension on the pre-heat. The hearth heat, with all this mass, is going to be pretty unresponsive. If, for some reason, you need to turn the thermostat up, it will take at least a couple of hours for the heat coming from below to reach the top of the hearth. Not that thermal mass is bad- it's just slow to respond and will take some time to get used to.A steel plate ceiling might be the answer, but I think, due to the lack of conductivity of brick, the bricks will respond a bit better to a frequently opened door. Still, if you have better access to steel... I might give it a shot. 1/2" sounds like a good amount of thermal mass.
The ceiling bricks on the Marsal aren't insulating. They're plain vanilla firebrick- like the brick's you're using as a hearth. The decks are fibrament- cast reinforced refractory cement and the ceiling is traditional firebrick. They also offer a firebrick hearth option.
I don't think the Marsal has an adjustable damper. It's an interesting concept, but I'm not sure what it brings to the table. With the fact that, in a bottom heat source scenario, the top is rarely as hot as you want it to be, I'm not sure damper adjustment is really all that necessary. I would think that you would want the air flow to always be max coming up from below.
I don't know what vanilla refers to. Is it just the colour?However I don't think they are they are the same as the bricks I'll be using for the hearth. In the video they mention that they are "lightweight firebricks". I have seen similar bricks available here but they are very different from the 2.3g per cu cm that I will be using on the hearth.I have presumed they are insulating. They use the same bricks at the back of the Marsal where it would be disadvantageous to have radiant heat.
I'm still thinking to have a top burner but was considering a hybrid using maybe smaller vents at the side.
Richard, 'vanilla' is a another word for 'standard,' ie, nothing special. The narrator uses the term 'lightweight' in the context that the bricks are lighter than the 70 lb. fibrament slabs. I promise you, they aren't insulating bricks. Insulating bricks have very little mass. Without the mass, they don't radiate. The radiant heat from above is the entire purpose for the brick ceiling. The bricks absorb heat into their mass and then radiate it down onto the pizza. In non brick ceiling ovens, when you turn up the oven very high, the bottoms start burning before the tops are done. The additional top heat from the brick ceiling helps to balance this out. Without the brick ceiling, you're talking about 7 minute bakes, at a minimum. With the radiating mass of the bricks, you can get down to that magic 4 minute bake.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but I've never seen a top burner in a gas deck oven. The thermodynamics is pretty simple. Good deflection underneath, proper sized side channels, a brick ceiling to absorb and radiate heat, along with an abundance of BTUs. Top burners, on the other hand, seem far more complex. You've got to make sure the top burner has it's own air supply. It seems like, from home ovens, that gas broilers tend to work better pointed upward with a shiny metal sheet to reflect the heat back down. You're also talking about another pilot light/ignition.
I gotta agree with Scott here, although originally I thought a top burner would be easier to engineer then the deflectors and baffles of a bottom only oven, now that I've seen them there really is nothing to it. As an added benefit I feel it would be easy to add a top burner after the fact if the bottom burner only configuration isn't working for some reason, so you always have that as a plan b to fall back on.