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Mplus Discussion
Latent Variable Mixture Modeling
Jon Heron
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 2:08 am
Hi Bengt/Tihomir
thanks for a very inspiring few days in Utrecht.
There was a brief discussion last thursday on the topic of how to deal with missing data amongst covariates when you get to the third step of the 3-step approach. I meant to quiz you further on this but didn't get the chance.
I am about to submit a paper where I dump my data into a chained-equation imputation model prior to the "modal-ML" third step as a way of filling in gaps in the covariates. This seemed to work quite well.
I also have an applied paper in print where I tried imputation as the first step - this was a nightmare as I had to fit 100 mixture models and pool the results.
My sense is that this is far from an answered question and that there are still many interesting avenues to explore - would you agree? perhaps you already sort of know the answer. My reason for asking is that i'm toying with the idea of making a PhD project around this, combining simulations and real-life data.
all the best, Jon
Bengt O. Muthen
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 6:31 am
Good to see you there, Jon; great meeting. Our current thinking is that you do step 1 and 2 as usual and only deal with missing on x in step 3, doing the missing on x by Mplus multiple imputation (perhaps using other variables to impute). So step 3 will be a Type=Imputation run over the different x-imputed data. It is a research topic as you say.
Jon Heron
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 7:02 am
Thanks Bengt, I'll have a play around with that.
On a semi-related note, I have just finished estimating a 3-step (C on X) model in Mplus v6 and can report that the model based on modal assignment agrees perfectly with Latent Gold - no surprise there!
I have also attempted to implement Vermunt's "Proportional ML" 3-step model which uses the probability weights and an alternative classification matrix. Here the estimates are great, but the SE's are attenuated as Mplus' "weight" command is rescaling the sample size so my assignment probabilities will no longer sum to 1 within respondent. I think you said there was a trick for this?
Linda K. Muthen
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 7:19 am
Try WTSCALE=UNSCALED in the VARIABLE command.
Jon Heron
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 7:23 am
Needs a two-level analysis apparently :-(
Jon Heron
posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 - 8:33 am
Not to worry, I'm planning on sticking with modal-class anyway, just be nice to finish that off neatly.
Last post (promise!). I set my self the challenge of 3-step model where exposure and outcome are derived separately from mixture models (C on C). Turned out to be simple:-
usevar = mod_y mod_x;
nominal = mod_x mod_y;
classes = new_x(4) new_y(3);
new_y on new_x;
model new_x:
model new_y:
Bengt O. Muthen
posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - 12:58 pm
Looks good. You are certainly an "early adopter". Be sure to take the misclassification errors from a separate analysis for each latent class variable and not the joint one.
Jon Heron
posted on Thursday, September 06, 2012 - 5:54 am
Thanks Bengt, good tip. These are both from separate already-published LCA models.
Something that comes out of Vermunt's paper that is a real surprise, though consistent with your own simulation study is that proportional assignment is actually *worse* than modal-class. We are having trouble convincing colleagues of this fact.
If you calculate Vermunt's D-matrix (the flipside of Mplus' classification table) for the two approaches then the one for modal-class is better in terms of the magnitude of the probabilities on the main diagonal compared with proportional assignment. I was initially shocked to discover this matrix was not actually the identity matrix when using proportional assignment, but you can't argue with the math.
Jon Heron
posted on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 7:31 am
Hi Bengt/Linda
I've been having a play today - attempting to incorporate imputation prior to the final step of the 3-step approach.
Parameter estimates look believeable, and pleasingly similar to the complete case findings, however the p-values look too high
For instance, with a 4-cat exposure and a binary outcome, I obtain 3 odds ratios:-
1.30 [0.84, 2.00]
1.70 [1.11, 2.62]
1.89 [1.34, 2.66]
but model test gives an omnibus p-value of 0.0513.
I have replicated the estimates in latent gold but obtained a lower p-value (0.0001). I have also removed the fancy 3-step bit from both programs and fitted simple logistic models - there is still a discrepancy in p-values.
Incidentally, without the imputation, both packages agree totally, so it's not a mistake in my model-test statement.
I know we need to be wary of significance testing when working with imutation - you can't pool LR-tests - but it was my understanding that the Wald was OK.
any ideas?
thanks, Jon
Bengt O. Muthen
posted on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 9:54 am
Could you send the data?
Jon Heron
posted on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 11:40 am
OK, I'll try and replicate with a small example so I can send.
Of course that usually leads to a solution in itself
posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 4:21 am
Hi, I am trying to manually compute the error rate for N using the output "Average Latent Class Probabilities for Most Likely Latent Class Membership by Latent Class" in Step 2 of the 3-Step Mixutre Modeling method.
On slide 53 of the Mplus 7 version training handouts (New Developments in Mplus Version 7: Part 2) there is an example for a 2-Class model and I was just wondering how to do this for a 4-Class model.
Also I just had a question about using AUXILIARY=x(R3STEP) with multiple predictors- when you look at main effects for each predictors does this covary for other predictors?
Thank you
Bengt O. Muthen
posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 11:34 am
Going from 2 to more classes simply means that you have to compute more log odds of the kind shown on the next slide, using the values of the classification table ("Average Latent Class Probabilities...}. So compute log of the value for a certain class divided by the last class - with 4 classes this gives 3 such log odds. You do this for every row (every class). And your 3rd step will then have 4 classes instead of 2.
The R3STEP procedure gives you a multinomial logistic regression for the covariates included in the auxiliary list. So in line with regular regression, each coefficient is a partial regression coefficient showing the effect of one covariate holding the other covariates constant.
A revised version of the Mplus Web Note 15 with more extensive instructions will be posted shortly.
Jon Heron
posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 11:58 pm
This 3-step approach where we correct for the classification error in a categorical manifest variable has got me thinking about another potentially interesting application.
I've recently published an LCA model of repeated measures of self-reported smoking frequency. (there are now a fair few of those!!).
We've since acquired some measures of cotinine taken from blood samples. I'm wondering about the possibility of using this additional information to get an idea of the accuracy of the self-report and then using this to adjust the manifest measure.
Unlike the 3-step which is based on nominal measures, this would be ordinal, but it feels to me like it might be a go-er.
Not really a question that, just an early-morning ponderance.
Bengt O. Muthen
posted on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 8:52 am
I like the idea of trying to get a better understanding of the measurement error. What would you say to a Devil's advocate who would want include the cotinine measures in the first step?
Jon Heron
posted on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 9:09 am
We don't have cotinine assessed at each wave and it may be a year or so before we have it for more than one wave. Hence I envisaged a one-time point comparison that would then inform the next stage of modelling, based on the (dubious?) assumption that self-report accuracy is constant.
My initial hope was we would have repeated pairs of self-report and biological samples and to do a one-step. Is that enough our a reason not to?
posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 2:10 pm
Hi, I just wanted to confirm that I am correctly computing the error rate for N using the output "Average Latent Class Probabilities for Most Likely Latent Class Membership by Latent Class" in Step 2 of the 3-Step Mixutre Modeling method. My main concern is what do I do when I am taking the log of 0, or in the special case where the last class has 0. Otherwise it makes sense, it is just in these cases I am unsure what to do. I have copied a section of my output and the calculations for the first 2 classes below.
Thank you so much.
Average Latent Class Probabilities for Most Likely Latent Class Membership (Row)
by Latent Class (Column)
1 2 3 4
1 0.936 0.000 0.000 0.064
2 0.000 0.959 0.021 0.020
3 0.001 0.016 0.860 0.124
4 0.011 0.000 0.029 0.960
Log (0.936 /0.064) = 2.6827
Log (0.000/0.064)= 0
Log (0.000/0.064)= 0
Log (0.000/0.020)= 0
Log (0.959/0.020)= 3.870
Log (0.021/ 0.020)= .0488
[email@example.com Class4#2@0 Class4#3@0];
[Class4#1@0 firstname.lastname@example.com Class4#3@.0488];
Tihomir Asparouhov
posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 2:57 pm
You should fix these values to -15, not 0.
Alternatively in your computations above replace the 0 probability with 0.0001.
Lewina Lee
posted on Sunday, April 07, 2013 - 8:25 pm
Drs. Muthen,
I am trying to compare classes on multiple distal outcomes, which have significant missingness. I attempted multiple imputation and realized that MI only works with R3STEP but not DU3STEP. Is there a workaround to this?
I noticed the earlier posts by Jon Heron addressing perhaps a similar issue. If the manual 3-step can be implemented along with MI, at which step do I perform MI?
Thank you,
Linda K. Muthen
posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 11:59 am
If you want to do this using multiple imputation, you must do it for each data set and then correctly combine the results. If you can use FIML, it would be a lot easier for you.
Lewina Lee
posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 7:31 am
Thanks, Linda.
When you suggested using FIML to handle missingness in class predictors and distal outcomes, did you mean outputting the most likely class assignment for each person, and doing the analysis (e.g., C on X) with a regression approach? I have an entropy of .80.
Linda K. Muthen
posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 1:32 pm
No, I meant instead of using multiple imputation to impute missing values to use TYPE=MISSING which is the default in Mplus.
Lewina Lee
posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 2:52 pm
Thank you, Linda. I can see that FIML can handle missingness on distal outcomes.
When auxiliary variables used in R3STEP are missing, they are treated as exogenous variables and so FIML doesn't apply (i.e., listwise deletion on cases missing Xs). Is there a way to "trick" M+ to treat them as endogenous in the mixture model?
Linda K. Muthen
posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 5:16 pm
You can bring them into the model by mentioning their variances. However, each variance would constitute one dimension of integration so this would not be practical.
Corey Savage
posted on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 1:41 am
I have a similar issue as above. I have a few hundred missing cases on distal outcomes and 1 covariate I want to use in a latent profile analysis using the BCH method. If I use either the outcome or covariate in the analysis, there is listwise deletion of all cases missing on x or the distal outcome before fitting the model right? Or would FIML apply? If the only approach to retaining the hundreds of observations is either MI or lw-deletion, how would I go about imputing? You mentioned above that it would be a daunting task. Thanks!
Jon Heron
posted on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 11:39 pm
In principle FIML would apply for your distal outcome, however, while I think FIML can be justifiable when considering missingness in one of many class indicators, I think the MAR assumption can be more questionable for a distal outcome subsequent to you latent class model. (Class indicators are excellent predictors of other class indicators).
I've had a recent unsuccessful grant which had the aim of addressing the missing covariate problem and I'm currently re-working this for resubmission. There have been a number of pragmatic solutions adopted in the applied literature. These may satisfy reviewers but perhaps not the bias-police. Ultimately the solution is probably Bayesian but this is likely to rule out the more complex problem, and the less-hardened analyst.
Of course your adopted method should depend on your missing data assumptions. Have you considered sticking with the listwise deletion of covariates and employing IPW (probability weighting) to re-adjust your sample?
best, Jon
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As Mayberry goes, so goes America
If the South cares to learn a "what not to do" lesson from the North, it will begin formulating a strategy to turn back heroin trafficking before the drug drives ol' Dixie down.
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ECB May Be Even More Accommodative
The European Central Bank may not move rates or adjust policy at its meeting later Thursday. But after recent events in Portugal and the return of contagion fears, Geoffrey T. Smith expects the central bank's governor, Mario Draghi, to stress more than ever that he's going to keep policy accommodative for a long time to come.
This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.
I ... the the ... all the latest policy meeting late Tuesday ... that a few days ago this meeting was expecting a quiet ... uneventful ... but the food goes well set free ... you know there's been a lot going on and it does look is that this could really be a problem for me to ... expect ... important in terms of communications promoting stands out for policy and ... you have to say that in terms of expectations was can happen rates were probably ... was certainly remain unchanged ... an OB know of a special policy measures the maps ... but all beastly will toughen the last couple of days as Portugal is called ... what exactly I mean not only have we seen the coming teaching on the engine ... is laughable since the Eels ... Golf young levels the ready sustainable I mean ... there's a fear of contagion ... yesterday he had levels ... on the ten year cookies ... you are going to put his phone of a ransom seventy some fifty ... that's way inaccessible you would normally consider sustainable ... that's definitely crisis levels ... and see if that is also a level at which the seat you would think ... is it time for the ECB to stop thinking about ... active ACA's OMT program which is really ... a big step because it is a year ago so empty isn't to say Spain the same signal system and that I mean just the promise of them of what that that ... that that actually use the ... Kremlin a sunny side of the system they've just gotten from collapsing sought ... custody ... yet so so so far so boss ... I ... but said the the the point here is of course that be the OMT use ... according to a message on his told us ... are only eligible for countries that aren't afraid of a check ... of the to comply with the program ... will really well going missing the targets ... this have to have them adjusted ... and thirdly ... to countries that have ... already acted in all segments of the bull market Gumport who has only released one new bone to ... sew the small ... recent conditions ... that doesn't mean that we have seen the conditions and expenses that cost the strict conditions have been going to you can say that ... any any room Commission the euro zone isn't is any existing to be banned the sense that okay with that speaks to the guy let's move on to the ... fact is that despite everything else ... is that ... you don't like it moves to borrow from the ECB ... but let's face it ... wasn't all he has over the last few weeks and months suggesting that this is quite like it needed to be ... the ECB will be the whole Mormon ... what am I when they aren't ... or a loan to cover basic and ... I'm the ... the consensus was that destroys top priority ... would be ... too stressed the Fed and ECB exit from its coldest it was loose Munnetra policy is still a long way down the road ... because of this the will we see the last ... couple weeks ... is fussy about the U S stores earth I am ... Coming a solicitor a CIA says is his policy ... and about triangles ... switching to a structurally types of Munnetra policy in the medium to long term ... so ... be it the ... bus but will still be a priority for Mr. arguement said the ECB is so so very firmly committed to in a coma that policy will be ... about with will be used at least in college ... um ... even more ... if you expect him to be


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The Once—And Future?—Governor Moonbeam
Next month, irate California voters will go the polls to decide if their next leader should be the same starry-eyed, hot-tempered Zen Buddhist who pulled the state back from the abyss three decades ago. A candid GQ+A with Jerry Brown
He's back! Thirty-five years ago, Jerry Brown surged into the national spotlight as the doe-eyed young governor of California, with a floppy mop of rumpled hair, a quirky passion for outer space, and some of the earliest initiatives of the coming green revolution. In the span of two terms, between 1975 and 1983, he passed the nation's first efficiency standards for appliances and homes, made California the global leader in alternative energy (with 90% of the world's wind power), and set countless new benchmarks for clean air and water, even while presiding over a staggering budget surplus of more than $4 billion. . . that is, until California taxpayers made him give it all back.
In an infamous 1978 referendum known as Proposition 13, voters slashed their property tas, obliterating state revenue and emptying Brown's coffers overnight. By the time he left office in 1983, the $4 billion surplus had slumped into a billion-dollar deficit, and today, many political analysts trace the state's financial decline to that first blow on Brown's watch. Yet the man himself has proven remarkably resilient. In the years since he left Sacramento, he has served as Mayor of Oakland, competed with Bill Clinton for the presidency, and in 2007, returned to statewide office as California's Attorney General — even while traversing the world in his spare time to seek spiritual enlightenment from figures like Mother Teresa and Japanese monks. At one point, he actually disappeared inside a Zen center for six months to meditate about "the essential emptiness."
Next month, California voters will choose between Brown and Republican candidate Meg Whitman, the former CEO of eBay. If Brown wins, the 72-year-old will become, by the end of his term, the oldest governor and the longest serving in state history. He will also become the first governor to win a third term since the state made it illegal to serve more than two. (More on that below.) We sat down with the notoriously feisty lifelong pol for two extended sessions, to probe the man nicknamed Governor Moonbeam about his contentious candidacy, his polarizing past, and his grand plan for the ultimate comeback.
How has this campaign been different than your last run for governor?
It started earlier. Never stops. Endless barrage of commercials. More expensive.
So the bullshit quotient is higher?
Well, the consultants and the manipulation are greater, particularly on the part of the Whitman campaign. She's a completely invented product, that is financed by the greatest sum of money ever spent in California.
So why put yourself through it?
Because California has got to be fid. Who else is gonna do it?
Nobody else can do it?
Well, who are they?
Don't you have faith that somebody else could be governor?
Who would it be?
You tell me.
I waited for someone else. They all dropped out.
** What about Gavin Newsom? **
He didn't run. Talk to him. He decided to run for lieutenant governor instead.
** Only because you pushed him out of the race and locked up the unions.**
No. It had nothing to do with that. I didn't do anything. I declared after he dropped out. I waited.
** That's not what I hear. **
Are you suggesting I don't run?
** I'm asking why you want to. **
Why I want to?
** Yeah, from what you described, it sounds like it sucks.**
But this is what I do. I've done it before. I understand the process. And I think I can fix it.
When you were running for Attorney General in 2006, you said you wouldn't run for governor this year.
That's what I was thinking.
What changed?
The state is in a huge mess, and I don't see anybody changing it. You wouldn't say there's anything wrong with running, would you?
I don't know. It might be wrong to run for a third term in a state that only allows two terms.
Is that wrong?
Well, the only reason it's legal is because your last term was before the term-limit law.
Well, that's not the law. You have the law, or you don't have the law.
There's also the spirit of the law.
What does that mean? The law is the law.
** Well, the law was written for a reason: to prevent a third term.**
That's not the issue in this campaign.
** Maybe not, but it's the issue I'm asking about.**
What? Whether the term limit really applies to me, even though it doesn't say so?
Whether it violates the spirit of the law to run for a third term in a two-term state.
I don't think there's a spirit to the law. They passed the law to achieve a certain goal.
What was the goal? That's what I'm asking.
The goal was kind of—there were a lot of interesting questions. But if you're asking, "Can other people do this?" No. But I can. And we need some experience in Sacramento. The state has never been as screwed up as it is today, because of the inability to summon the courage to make the tough choices.
What does "the courage to make the tough choices" mean?
To deal with the budget in an honest way, and lay it out to the people.
Do you feel like fixing the state's finances would remedy your history with Proposition 13?
What's my history with Prop 13?
The last time you were governor, voters passed 13, which stunted property tas, gutted state revenue, and has been catastrophic for California's finances.
No, that's not the case.
You think Prop 13 was good for California's finances?
In many ways—it's kept people in their homes.
But what has it done to state revenue?
Real estate revenue is much higher than anyone ever imagined before Prop 13, because of the turnover in property.
But the rates were much higher before Prop 13, and that money funded schools, which are in a state of crisis now.
But the value of property is much higher.
Of course property values have gone up since the 1970s. Expenditures have gone up, too.
My answer is no. I am not advocating the repeal of Prop 13.
Do you think you should have stopped it in 1978?
I should have offered more property-tax relief. But that would have cost the state money. I was too tight-fisted. I'm not a big spender.
You were also the last governor to have a veto overridden by the legislature, weren't you?
I had a lot of tension with the legislature.
So you've had 30 years to look back. Have you used this time to reflect on what you would do differently as governor?
I hope so.
How would you operate differently?
I've learned that you've got to respect legislators, number one. Because most governors don't. And that's very important to move the ball along. Number two, you have to craft a very focused agenda. You really have to build one brick on top of another. The legislature has 4,000 bills. Those bills represent hundreds of lobbyists, hundreds of millions of dollars of investments and concerns and loyalties and desires. Now the governor comes along and says, "Guess what? I've got a plan. I want a water plan. I want to change education. I want to do this." Well, the governor has to connect that to what the legislature wants.
Does Meg Whitman understand that?
No. She's from a corporate culture.
What's the difference?
Well, she has more of a CEO mindset. Businesses run on a more autocratic process, where the CEO has much greater control than an elected official does. The civil service, collective bargaining, the free press—all these things are very different than a private office where you can shut the door and say, "We've got to slash 10% of the work force," or, "We're going into this business and selling that business." That flexibility is alien to the government process, which is more cumbersome, more conflict-ridden, and requires compromise at every turn. There are all these conflicting vectors of power pushing against government, and the leader has to persuade. A CEO can coerce.
Do you think her self-funding is a problem?
It's the same problem. When you're raising money, you've got to listen to a lot of people. So you see a diversity that you wouldn't otherwise see. If you have a billion dollars and just write a check, then all you have to do is make speeches. When you have to raise money, you're on the telephone, you've got to meet people, go to dinners. . .
Is there any way you can compete with her funding?
No. Because there's no limit to what she can spend. If she fills up television, she can do radio. If she fills up radio, she can do mail. If she fills up mail, she can do newspapers. If she fills up newspapers, she can do skywriting. . .
Let's talk about illegal immigration, which has the potential to be a flash point in this campaign.
You don't think so?
Well, let's talk about it, anyway. What's your policy on sanctuary cities [those cities that don't enforce federal immigration laws]?
I don't support sanctuary cities. What are we talking about, two or three cities?
Two or three huge cities: San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego.
San Francisco has changed. And I'm not familiar with San Diego. The answer is a national reform, which I support. Meg doesn't. She doesn't want a path to citizenship and comprehensive reform. I think that's the only thing to do.
Do you think we have a problem with illegal immigration?
I think it's a problem. Because you have people who are here against the law. They're living in a shadow world. It's not a good thing.
So if you could snap your fingers and have the 11 or 12 million undocumented workers in this country leave, would you do that?
Well, that's not possible. That's a counterfactual.
It's a hypothetical. But all questions in political races are hypothetical, such as: What will you do as governor?
But how would you bring it about?
I don't know, but the first question is whether you want to: Would you like to see the undocumented workers go home?
We also have to spend more time worrying about Mexico—they need to raise their standard of living, and that will calm the immigration flow.
But I'm asking about the people who are already here. Would you want them to stay or go?
The only way forward is a comprehensive reform bill.
With amnesty?
I would call it, "A path to citizenship." That's the only human thing to do.
Do you think this country is hypocritical about illegal labor?
There are a lot of contradictions in our individual lives, and in our collective life. That's been true since Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, and had slaves. Contradiction is inherent in human nature.
That's a pretty big answer to a specific question.
All right, well, ask it again.
Do you think it's hypocritical for us to. . .
I'm not going to say America is hypocritical, if that's what you want me to say.
I don't want you to say anything. I just want to know what you think.
I don't want to say that. I don't think they're any more hypocritical than you or I. We don't always notice all the nuances and contradictions inherent in our lives.
After leaving the governor's office, you spent a lot of time just talking with people like Noam Chomsky and Mother Teresa about the big questions.
I did. A lot of interesting people.
What did you learn from Mother Teresa?
Well, she was a very powerful woman. To be in her presence was a very special kind of privilege. It's totally different than politics. It's a different aspect of life. And during my life, I've always pursued that path, that you might call religion and spirituality. That's why I studied to be a priest, why I went to Japan.
Talk to me about your time in Japan.
Well, I went to the Jesuit university and I met with Father Lassalle, who was an older Jesuit priest, who I learned later was in Hiroshima when the bomb actually dropped. He was a missionary there. And I asked him about Zen practice and we talked, and I decided to come back and practice Zen meditation. I spent six months with him. It was a time for reflection, for lessening the attachment to ways of thinking, habituated perceptions. You're able to just sit. I would read and write during the day, and then meditate for two hours at night, and then, once a month, there would be a two-day intensive, and then four times I spent six days at a retreat doing meditation.
Does that make you better as a political leader?
I think you can see the arbitrary and subjective quality of one's own views, one's own thinking, one's own desires, as well as everyone else's. And so I think that fosters a certain amount of compassion. A certain amount of empathy.
That brings up Proposition 8, which banned gay marriage in 2008.
What about it?
It seems like you had a hard time finding your political footing on that.
I don't think so.
You don't think you changed your position on Prop 8?
I defended the law as Attorney General.
You defended it until you challenged it.
No, I defended the law. And the Supreme Court did not take our position, they struck down the existing statute.
I'm not asking about the previous statute, I'm asking about Proposition 8. When it passed, you said it was okay.
No, I didn't say that.
You didn't say that?
What I said was that the existing law was valid.
Not the existing law, Proposition 8.
Which Proposition 8?
The Proposition 8 that banned gay marriage.
Oh, okay. Well, we've got three things here. We have the existing law. We have the Supreme Court opinion striking down that law. Then we have Proposition 8. Then we have the Supreme Court upholding Proposition 8. And then we have the federal case challenging it. Those are five distinct topics.
Right. And I'm talking about Proposition 8. When it passed, you said you would defend it because it represented "the will of the people."
No, I didn't say that.
You did say that.
No. No, I didn't. I didn't say that.
All right.
Show it to me.
I will.
I said that I supported Proposition 8?
You said that you would defend Prop 8 as Attorney General.
No, what I said was — I did say something right after it passed. I said that I didn't think it was a Constitutional revision.
And then later, you said it was.
No I didn't.
You did. You challenged it in court on Constitutional grounds.
No I didn't.
You didn't?
In December?
I don't think you're listening.
Sure I'm listening.
I don't think so. You don't act like it.
Just because I'm asking questions doesn't mean I don't hear your answers.
Well, what did I say?
You said, "No, I didn't." That was the last thing you said — that you didn't challenge Proposition 8 on Constitutional grounds. But you did.
This is. . . relatively. . . I don't think so. What I said was this. I'm going to say it, and you can disagree if you want. I said I didn't believe it violated the, uh — I didn't believe that it was a revision. Then, as our office did more and more research, some of the lawyers said it violates a fundamental right created by the Supreme Court. Based on that, we articulated a pretty novel theory that a fundamental right cannot be swept aside by a mere majority. I hadn't thought of that when I said it didn't constitute a revision.
And that's what I'm asking about.
The development of an idea by our lawyers.
Right, which was very different from what you said originally.
It was totally different. Totally different. I hadn't thought of it before.
What about "determinate sentencing," which the rest of us call "mandatory minimums"? As governor, you pushed for the law, but as mayor of Oakland, you tried to repeal it. Why?
Originally, the hope was that it would minimize the arbitrariness of treating some prisoners differently than others. But the way it turns out, when people know exactly when they're going to leave prison, the motivation to get into education or therapy is reduced. We also didn't envision that every year the legislature would say, "We've got to make the sentence higher!" Every year, they keep escalating the determinate sentence, and they have created a much harsher regime than we ever had.
It seems like your thinking on nuclear power has also evolved over the years. Do you consider yourself open to it now?
Yeah, I'm open to that. Because of climate change.
So would you be open to a new nuclear plant in California?
I would like to see a national policy getting serious about climate change, so that's one of the alternatives. My advisor on this issue is John Holdren, who is the science advisor to the president, and another fellow named James Lovelock, who says the world needs a thousand nuclear power plants almost immediately to prevent catastrophe. Now, that's an extreme view, but it's something that people have to think about. The alternatives to burning carbon have to be taken very, very seriously.
But I'm asking specifically what you would support as governor?
Whatever I can.
Including a new nuclear plant?
Including anything that's honest and reasonably effective and doesn't cause undue damage.
Do you consider it honest and reasonably effective to build a new nuclear plant in California?
I would not rule out any reasonable scientific steps to block the impending catastrophe of climate change.
But you won't say whether you're in favor of a new nuclear plant?
No, I won't. Because I think I've said it very clearly. Very clearly.
You've said that you're open to anything reasonable, but you haven't said whether or not a new nuclear plant is reasonable.
Yeah, that's right. I'm not a nuclear scientist.
But you want to be governor - you'll have to make these decisions.
I'll have plenty of time to think about it.
Will you discuss your position on offshore drilling?
Yes, because I have a long record on that.
But you have a record on nuclear power, too. In 1975 you stopped a nuclear plant in San Diego, much to the chagrin of the mayor, Pete Wilson.
I did, and it saved San Diego because they couldn't afford it.
So what's your position on a new plant now?
I will weigh all the options and look at it. Being deliberative is not bad.
Being willing to state your position is not bad either.
Mindful of slogans is not helpful for governance, and my mind is not such.
I'm not critiquing your mind, but let's talk about something else: Proposition 19.
What is Proposition 19?
It's on the ballot this fall to legalize marijuana.
Oh yeah.
You've said that you oppose legalization.
Those are your words.
No, you said that.
Well, I don't support the legalization of drugs.
That's what I just said.
Right, okay. I'm just being careful.
Legalizing pot is a serious issue in California these days. In 2008, the state arrested 60,000 people for possession.
You know, the number one drug on the street is marijuana. The cartels are increasingly taking over. This is a serious problem.
Do you think legalization would make that better or worse?
I've given you my position.
Yes, you have. I'm asking you why it's your position.
I think it's more prudent for California not to embrace a legalization strategy.
I don't think fostering chemicals is a smart move.
Should we illegalize alcohol?
I think the advertising and the excess of alcohol is a serious problem, and even legal drugs in the form of prescriptions is a serious problem.
I've never heard of a cartel killing somebody over ambien.
I understand you like pot. I don't.
I'm not saying I like pot. I'm saying nobody wants to illegalize alcohol, and I'm asking why pot is different.
What do we call that? A noble experiment.
If Prop 19 passes, will you challenge it?
Generally speaking when a law is passed, the Attorney General defends it.
But you managed to find a "novel theory" to challenge Proposition 8.
I did, but that's unusual.
So, would you find a novel theory to challenge Proposition 19?
You know, I'd want to look at that.
Let me ask you another question about Prop 8, since we just stumbled back onto it. In 1977, you signed a law that illegalized gay marriage.
No, I didn't.
You changed the law from allowing "two persons" to get married, to saying "a man and a woman." Does it bug you that you signed that?
Come on.
Don't impute your subjectivity to mine.
I'm trying to understand yours.
Well, I'll tell you. Before I was governor, the law was de-gendered. So where we had "workman's comp," it became "worker's comp." Where it was "firemen," it became "firefighters." And when it came to marriage, it was between "a man and a woman," and it became "two persons." But when the legislature did that, they did not intend to legalize same-sex marriage. That was not the intention of the governor, nor was it the intent of the legislature. So I felt that I was upholding the law, and effectuating what the legislature intended.
But that language has become very important again. Do you think the language should say "two persons" now?
I think the debate has evolved, and marriage is of far more significance in the gay community than it was 30 years ago, 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago. So it definitely is embedded in the sense of a fundamental right.
What will you do as governor to help gay couples marry?
We'll see what happens. Maybe an initiative comes up, and I would certainly support some measure to change the law.
Are you willing to fight for gay marriage?
Certainly if the initiative comes up, I would be counted as a supporter.
Will you propose an initiative?
I don't know. My first goal is the budget. Budget and jobs are my first objectives. But we're out of time.
You know you want to spend another hour with me.
No, I don't.
Admit it.
You love this.
I want to go somewhere. Get out of town. I work too much.


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Paul Baan needed a new logo design and created a contest on 99designs.
A winner was selected from 57 designs submitted by 23 freelance designers.
XMLHolland is a non-profit organisation that focuses on spreading knowledge and best practices on the use of Open Standards. Of course, XML plays an important role as it is the foundation for many open standards. We have a website, we organise events, distribute a magazine etc. XML Holland is one of the largers user-groups resorting under Oasis.
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BBC News
- Brexit: Greg Clark, Amber Rudd and David Gauke issue delay warning
- Ministers spend £100m on Brexit consultant contracts
- Eltham crash: Two dead in crash with van pursued by police
- Birmingham stabbing: Boy stabbed in Small Heath named
- Most mortgages go to first-time buyers, Halifax research shows
- Beavers to become protected species in Scotland
- NHS told to ditch 'outdated' pagers
- Flexible working: Labour pledges new employee rights
- Alesha MacPhail murder: Judge lifts ban on naming killer Aaron Campbell
- 'MI6 conman' Mark Acklom extradited to UK
- Man charged over Portsmouth police officer park stabbing
- Police force 'discriminated against white heterosexual male'
- Are controversial adverts for fashion brands accident or design?
- Wet wipes a sewer nemesis for Anglian Water
- Flypast for WW2 US bomber crash crew
- The Independent Group: The breakdown on the breakaway MPs
- Isle of Wight cerebral palsy author writes autobiography with his nose
- Insects decline: What do insects actually do?
- Why is this horse dressed like a zebra?
- BBC News Channel
- Newspaper headlines: 'Revolt' and quit messages for PM
- How Queer as Folk broke the mould for gay people on TV
- Brexit and identity in NI: A delicate issue
- Roy Hodgson: The Premier League's oldest manager - by those who know him best
- How are MPs deselected?
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- Jamie Genevieve: Don't call me an 'influencer'
- Shamima Begum in Syria: Where now for IS bride?
- From Gormley to Rodin: The famous artworks hidden in plain sight
- University Challenge: What's behind Freddy Leo's rapid buzzing?
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text:
It's been almost a month since Zoosk announced its Romance FTW competition to find America's most romantic couple. Couples from around the country have been creating their couple profiles, posting their romantic moments and inviting their friends to like and comment on the milestones of their relationships. And, of course, the couple with the most friends, likes and comments – according to the Zoosk Leaderboard get to win a trip to one of America's most romantic cities, as well as a whopping ten-thousand dollars!
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Not to be outdone, Irene and Jeff from Castro Valley, California are engaged and they've been turning up the cuteness with their romantic moments. Along with some vacation shots that are sure to inspire pangs of jealousy for those of us sat in an office instead of poolside!
Theresa and Steven who are married and live in Maine, have gone so far as to share a romantic moment of their six guinea pigs!
Sheila Lach and John Walker from Florida have been sharing their romance with each other – and with bloody marys – on their couple profile. We're big fans of both!
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Zoosk's Romance FTW contest ends August 5th so every couple still has a chance to join in! Stop by the Romance FTW Contest Page and get started by creating and sharing your romantic journey for a chance to win!
The Zoosk logo is available for use in any media outlet or publication. However, any modification of the logo or combination with other marks is not permitted. If you have questions about Zoosk's logo and usage requirements, contact firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Smith Hall, built in 1908, is the smallest and oldest residence hall on campus. With just under 100 residents, it feels more like a home than a hall and with an International Living theme, the Smith Hall family spans the globe. Although the proportions of International and American students are always changing, the Smith tradition of internationally aware and culturally enthusiastic students still remains.
The United States is one of the most diverse countries on earth, jam packed full of amazing sights from St. Patrick's cathedral in New York to Mount Hollywood California.The Northeast region is where it all started. Thirteen British colonies fought the American Revolution from here and won their independence in the first successful colonial rebellion in history. Take a look at these rolling hills carpeted with foliage along the Hudson river here, north of New York City.The American south is known for its polite people and slow pace of life. Probably they move slowly because it's so hot. Southerners tend not to trust people from "up north" because they talk too fast. Here's a cemetery in Georgia where you can find graves of soldiers from the Civil War.The West Coast is sort of like another country that exists to make the east coast jealous. California is full of nothing but grizzly old miners digging for gold, a few gangster rappers, and then actors. That is to say, the West Coast functions as the imagination of the US, like a weird little brother who teases everybody then gets famous for making freaky art.The central part of the country is flat farmland all the way over to the Rocky Mountains. Up in the northwest corner you can find creative people in places like Portland and Seattle, along with awesome snowboarding and good beer. Text by Steve Smith.


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Air Service From Victoria Airport Delayed
It looks like we will have to wait a little longer for the already long-awaited flights between Victoria and Houston.
Commercial air service to Houston from Victoria will start later than anticipated. According to the Victoria Advocate, Victoria Regional Airport Manager Jason Milewski said the new start date for Sun Air International, Victoria's new air carrier, is Oct. 1, pushed back two weeks from the Sept. 17 estimated date. Milewski spoke during the Victoria County Commissioners meeting Monday, updating the court on changes. He said the later date is "just part of the process," and he hopes details regarding booking and traveling are finalized by the week's end. "They're looking forward very much to starting Oct. 1," Milewski said.
Pinnacle Airlines Corp., parent company to Victoria's former carrier, Colgan Air, announced in March plans to pull essential air service from Victoria. Although the plan called for flights to continue until a replacement was up, the company discontinued service June 30. The airport commission selected Sun Air in mid-June.
Sun Air will make four daily flights between Victoria and Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport. Tickets will range from $29 to $69 each way.