text:
Comments on "Common Everyday Sociopaths"
BELOW ARE comments on the article, Common Everyday Sociopaths. You may add your comments at the end. Look to the sidebar for resources.
When you leave a comment, click the box that subscribes you to comments, so any further comments on this page will be sent to you via email. Ask questions, give advice, provide another resource, or tell your story.
The article, Common Everyday Sociopaths, article has gotten so many comments (see original Comments Page) that I created this page so comments can be added automatically.
Scroll to the end of the COMMENTS PAGE and leave your comment.
Please identify yourself in some way if you are leaving your message anonymously. This will give us a way to answer you (or respond to your comment) more easily.
2,346 comments:«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 2346 Newer› Newest»
I suggest that the label is less important than the impact of the individual on others lives. It doesn't really matter what something is called. If a person or situation is ultimately bad for you, how you deal with it and grow and heal is far more important. The question that I would ask those who wonder or call themselves SP is; now what? What is your grand plan for life? Do you intend to seek more victims or are you willing to avoid others to cause less harm? A true SP will feel it is their destiny in life to teach the rest of us a lesson of pain and destruction simply because we can feel and they cannot. We are at odds and therefore enemies forevermore. I also wonder if coming here for them is about finding help or answers or if our stories of pain and disillusionment are a pleasure source for them between victims. I personally have found that sharing my story and support with others like myself who "get it" in a way that my friends and family cannot helps me feel better. If I can help or support one person, it gives purpose to what I have endured.
- January 26, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Anonymous with the daughter who she thinks is a sociopath. My mother is going through the exact same thing. My sister will do and say horrible things to her and about her but she refuses to walk away from her. My mother lost a child four years ago after telling the child no she couldnt stay with her and now she feels this intense amount of guilt about cutting my sister out of her life. She plays the what if game. I have tried to tell her to call my sister on her games and lies and horrible things she says but my mom chooses to ignore it and pretend it isnt happening. Enabling the behavior to continue at others expense. My sister uses people until they can be used no more then casually throws them away like trash and moves on to the next victim she can suck the life out of. I have been seeing a phyciatrist for over a year now and I think part of my issues stem from her & my mother. I accept that and distance myself from the situation as much as possible however my mother seems to think since we are sisters we absolutely should love one another which I can honestly say I do not love my sister. I do not hate her either I pity her and what she is and what she will never have in her life and that is to feel emotion. Not just pretend emotion. Also I posted under anonomyous about three posts ago so if you want to check out my story it is there.
- January 26, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Justamama and Joy:
Thank you both for your words of wisdom, I have truly taken them to heart. I am so glad I stumbled across this website! I am not a foolish or needy woman, in fact this man had to pursue me for months, I didn't make it easy for him as I really wasn't looking for a relationship, but we seemed to have so much in common and he seemed to understand me more than anyone. He also told me the same, that I was more understanding than any other woman and that he never trusted women but I had earned his trust.
I need to burn or throw away the few items I have left from him, his pictures, poems I wrote him, flowers he gave me...all of it needs to go but I am still having a hard time letting go. Why I feel like I need to hold on to these bad memories I haven't a clue.
I think you are right about my new name because I am Soooo very lucky. I have since found out that he abused past girlfriends, apparently I never made him angry enough. I told my mom the hardest part of all of this is I still love who I thought he was, makes me want to go find that song you spoke of! I am horrified by the person I now know he is, and I feel so sad deep inside that the person he harmed will never be the same, he disfigured them for life and left them for dead over a verbal disagreement...that could have been me, it makes me shudder to think about it.
Thank you again, I feel like I have finally found a place and people who truly understand my feelings, so far my friends and mom just keep telling me to get over it, he is a monster so just go on with my life. Not as easy as they make it out to be but I'm trying really hard.
"I'm so Lucky" :)
- January 28, 2009 at 4:03 AM
Dearest pSP;
So much for your sociopathic manipulation. The post stating that you had an abusive childhood gained exactly the response I had hoped for and you wrote volumes about your family and even came to their defense.
Your anger is palbable even on the written page.
Aside from the nearly singular run-on sentence that you wrote the most revealing statement came at the very end;
"Anyway, any intelligent responses will be read".
How would you manage to decide which responses would be UNintelligent without reading them? Are you psychic as well as being sociopathic?
I don't believe you are sociopathic at all. I think you are just one more of the thousands of hot headed guys out there filled with self importance from being spoiled as a child. Most likely drinking too many energy drinks.
It's one thing to be a sociopath it's a whole other thing to WANT to be thought of as a sociopath.
Take off the black nail polish and goth clothes and join the real world. No one is really afraid of you just because you walk around saying "BOO" to everyone all the time.
The TRULY?? scary people in this life??? look like everyone else.
- January 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM
What do you do when your 12 year old Godson is diagnosed as a sociopath? His mother is overwhelmed, depressed and afraid of him. His father is a pedifile, exposes him to violence and pornography...and the therapist suggests that she just give him to the father. PLEASE HELP!!!
- January 30, 2009 at 2:07 AM
And we are to believe that a licensed therapist that knows the child is exposed to a pedophile and violence and pornography suggests to give the child to the father?
I smell fish in Denmark.
I also marvel at how this child was diagnosed at the age of 12 as a sociopath when the diagnostic criteria is that the person must be at least age 18 and have displayed this behavior since the age of 15.
Nice try.
- January 30, 2009 at 6:46 AM
I have been in a relationship for 4-5 years we are nor apart I had to move away from area hrs 55 he was diagnosed with drug psychosis,schizophrenia, and is sociopathic heres the signs no emotinal attachment no affection he gives nothing that costs him anything he takes your money time my energy was drained he made fun of my flaws cruelly he at first was nice and flattered me alot,But after the last year of our relationship he said things like I'll find someone better, he would leave me if I had yo go to the hospital from stress related ulcers do to his control and say call me when your done?I also moved because I outed him to his friends some who knew already some who didn't he has parasitic relationships all drug reelated he says he has no friends they are just to use to get drugs trhese are the drugs he uses oxycontin,morphine pills,vicodin, he logs on his gridsheet he has online news articles on missing women,peolpe killed in accidents he went to my friends grandfathers funeral and stood by and watced them cry,grieve aftre che said hre doesn't go to funerals or weddings he also was declared insane by US Army. He is a full-blown socio or what?
- January 30, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Sounds like you already know the answer to your question. You were with a bonafide Sociopath.
The overwhelming theme with these people again and again seems to be that we are left damaged, drained and disabled and they just go on their merry way.
What I find frightening is how many of them that are out there. It makes me never want to date again.
- January 30, 2009 at 6:18 PM
- uinaz said...
Hi, I am so thrilled I found your article because my son's bio-dad is for sure, in my personal opinion a sociopath. He has dragged me through the court system attempting to take this child away from me almost non-stop for the past 4 years. I am afraid that unless he finds some sort of girlfriend, this will continue for the next 9 years. Had I not filed for child support, this snake would have slithered away and left us alone but since he was ordered to pay support he has been on a full blown revenge kick and the Judges, court psychologists, all fall for his lying and tall takes. It is amazing. Actually, being the charming con-men that they are, he seems to have very good luck with women, these last two male judges haven't fallen for his whining oh whoa is me tactics that the women seem to buy. Thank goodness he has lost his bids for sole custody twice, but he keeps at it!!
These men are a complete night mare. Since they have no feelings they will do just as you said, win at all costs. He is a great performer, I can only hope that my son will not pay the price for having to be forced to have this man in his life. Its very sad, but hindsight is 20/20. Thank I will have to try the support sites since I cannot totally be rid of this individual because of my son.
- January 30, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Ask your lawyer to have the judge bar him from attempting to bring you before the court for this again due to the financial and mental burden it has placed on you and your child.
Then have your lawyer tell him that if he continues with this you will SUE HIM IN CIVIL COURT for mental anguish.
You are correct, these freaks NEVER quit. How they have the energy for this is just beyond me except it is some kind of obsession with them that they cannot have control or have their way.
Also when he starts with the whinning in court tell him to PROVE IT. Keep him from talking too much. These people LOVE to get into court and "have their day". Yes, they are a complete nightmare.
Best of luck to you dear.
P.S On what grounds is he seeking SOLE custody? What is he coming up with that makes him think he can win sole custody?
I'm very curious. As a side note, I was married to a sociopath for 12 years and it completely side swiped me, I had never been around anyone like him before or since thank God. But because he had a documented history of domestic violence I was awarded FULL physical and legal custody of my children!!
He was more worried about the farm land than he was about the custody of the children.
These people are some SICK people.
- January 30, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Also, the courts look at where the child has been living all this time. So unless you two were living in the same house right up until recently and then split (then usually there is joint custody), but if the child has been living with you and just visiting him then the court would take that into consideration.
I went through this as I was saying in the post above and now my X sister in law who is married to my X's brother is going through the EXACT same thing and saying the same things to her about "You'll never get the kids if you leave". and all these stupid childish threats that they come up with at the time.
MAN OH MAN I wish I would have found this site back then and known what I know now. Like you say hindsight is 20/20.
- January 30, 2009 at 9:16 PM
You can legally RECORD any conversations you have with this jerk over the phone or in person and anyone related to him as well!!!
I was having just one h@#ll of a time in court with his parents showing up and they could have won an Oscar let me tell you the performance they put on!! So I got permission from local law enforcement and then my lawyer told me also that it is absolutely legal to record ANY CONVERSATION THAT YOU PERSONALLY ARE INVOLVED IN.
I got 'em all on tape saying some of the worst crap you can imagine but you know what? Fight fire with fire. They were ruining my life and I wasn't going to lie down for it.
And there's NOTHING better in this world than playing those tapes back and they can't argue one bit because it's them and their own words right there for the world to hear!
People's jaw just DROP when they hear some of the stuff dear old mommie in law said to me ect...ect...
Hang in there!
- January 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Do sociopaths feel pain? I am fairly certain my exboyfriend was a sociopath, and I don't think he really understood or felt love. But, he seemed to get angry and have his feelings hurt when he was excluded from group activities-he would just disappear and insist he didn't care, but then avoid those people later. Is this normal sociopathic behavior?
- January 31, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Check out 'Avoidant Personality".
Quite frankly I think that everyone of us has behavioral differences that work within and outside of other people's 'normal' behavioral framework and that doesn't mean that the behavior is a disorder. (My humble opinion only).
For instance, I detest it when I receive unannounced company. You know, people that just show up without calling ahead first. I consider this to be the most rude of behavior but is it a personality disorder? I don't think so, it's just behavior that is outside of MY personal acceptance range.
Also, displaying the emotions we feel covers as broad of a spectrum as the color of each person's eyes. My own mother guards her emotions very carefully because she was taught that a lady does not have outbursts and lose her temper ect... This does not mean that she doesn't feel joy or pain she just displays it in a different way than some other people.
Take a look at different cultures, in some cultures during a funeral procession it is perfectly 'normal' or acceptable to WAIL and cry loudly and fling yourself on the ground near the coffin in a display of mourning and grief. Where I come from this would not be acceptable behavior and even under the worst of circumstances a person is expected to keep a "stiff upper lip".
I think (again my opinion only) that with any and all of these disorders it is the BROAD PICTURE that is important when determining if there's a personality problem and not a single incident.
Lastly a good friend of mine gave me some of the best advice I have ever heard..."It's not a problem until it causes you trouble". I nearly laughed myself unconcious because really when you think about it, it's very true.
I think most likely the key word in your whole post is EXboyfriend.
I am thinking about writing to the psychiatric board and having them change this disorder from Sociopath to TORNADO PERSONALITY DISORDER because with this disorder it is like looking at where a tornado has touched down. This leaves the cardinal signs of a sociopath.
Just as you are able to see the path of destruction from a tornado, you are able to see the path of destruction from a sociopath and in my opinion THAT is the definitive diagnostic criteria for this disorder.
Also in my opinion? WHO CARES if they can be cured. Just stay away from them at all costs. Eliminate them from your life, inlist law enforcement for help and protection.
We know sharks and grizzly bears exist in this world but we don't keep inviting them into our houses because why? We know they are dangerous.
Same thing goes here.
Look to nature for our answers and we will be alright.
- January 31, 2009 at 9:08 AM
I know what avoidant personality is and he does not have that. He fits all of the criteria for sociopathic behavior, it's just I have seen (or maybe he was acting) him feel "hurt." Regardless, he seemed to thrive on pain, in his relationships and especially in sex. Not so much physical as emotional, he was not violent in any way, but once remarked "pain always goes away so it's ok to have it." He almost seemed to seek it out, and liked to mentally and emotionally inflict it. I'm just wondering how often are sociopaths sadists and masachists? Do they actually feel pain and have it hurt, or does it really give them a rush or just tirgger them to want to control it and manipulate it as well?
- January 31, 2009 at 10:48 PM
(Kim)Ok Adam and Eric, from all my reading, the only thing to do if there's a sociopath in your life is to run away. What if that's not possible? My husband's ex-wife is without a doubt a sociopath and will, as you well know-stop at nothing to destroy our lives. She was fine and even remained "best buds" with my husband after their divorce. She did everything, including schedule parent/teacher conferences together for their 12 year old son and sign my husband up for the daddy son camping trips-then call him and tell him when to be there. That was, until he met me. When he tried to exert some control over his own life-that's when the proverbial S**t hit the fan. Next thing you know, we're in Friend of the Court-he's being accused of being a neglectful father, sexual accusations that weren't true-and tons of money, lawyers, resulted in her getting full custody of their son, and full contol of our lives. She's tried to get my son taken away from me, she's tried to pit us against each other, she's tried to make my step-son hate me. She's GOOD. I see her for what she really is, and I know that bothers the heck outta her, and makes me a bigger target-although she still trys to avoid me and hit my husband at every turn. Everything we do or don't do is twisted to her advantage, she's had therapists, courts, lawyers, friends, family thinking she's a saint, and we're horrible people. It's exactly the opposite-but everyone believes her. When someone calls her out, points out contradictions in her stories, says no-all hell breaks loose. She always gets what she wants. We have visitation with her son every other weekend, and he's supposed to go home on Sunday. She'll drop him off, without asking us, tell him he's staying until Monday. This weekend I decided to put my foot down and texted her to say he would be home Sunday night. She proceeded to text my husband at work saying that I had texted her and if her son was coming home early-we needed to bring him-regardless of his work schedule or the fact we only have one car. If I make him walk to six blocks home, I'm a bad person. If I take him home, I'm allowing her to play me like a puppet. She's got the upper hand and it's a never ending uphill battle with her. She'll leave us alone for weeks, sometimes a month at a time-then it starts again. It's tiring, draining and pissing me off. So what exactly is a person to do when they can't just run away? I'm worried for my step-son, being controlled by a sociopath, and worried for my family-since she'll stop at nothing to see us in ruins. By the way-this won't work, it only makes my husband and I stronger-something she will never understand. I think she's also confused or something by me, she's tried to break me, and I don't let her see that's she's winning, will she give up on me or does that make me a bigger challenge? What do I do? Thanks! :)
- February 1, 2009 at 7:52 AM
Be BORING. You are absolutely correct when someone calls these people out or figures them out for what they are they then become the biggest target.
Of course they do because they also are the biggest threat then to showing who this person really is.
Be as boring to this person as possible. If children are involved you can get a court ordered guardien ad litem and you can have the Unbrella tree or something similar as a drop off point for the visitation.
So what if she has full custody? She loves this because it allows control. NO CONTACT is MUST in these situations.
Continuing to try to "be nice" and "make it work" because there is a child involved won't ever be a success. You have to turn the tables here and enlist the court system to help you.
The truth DOES prevail it really does but only if you use your head now and stop falling into this woman's trap.
Restraining order. She can't text you call you write you.
Middle person to act as a go between for the visitations.
If your husband wants anything to do with his son he needs to understand that this woman is poison and she's already tainted the kid's thinking.
I cannot stress to you enough that even though you think that you are not showing her that she is winning this battle she is winning this battle because the two of you remain drained.
Court ordered visitation and a safe haven drop off area and a restraining order for no contact. It worked for me it will work for you to.
STOP playing her game. She won't.
- February 1, 2009 at 9:04 AM
I keep re-reading your post and I tell you what just because she has full custody of their son does not mean she has full control of your lives.
Please post more if you feel willing on how it was exactly that she gained full custody of their son.
Thousands of people each year enter the court system making claims of neglect and abuse in order to win in divorce and child custody cases. What evidence did she present? Just her word? She had to have something, anything?
Be honest with yourself and take a good hard look at your husband was there any truth to what she said?
I'm not understanding the full custody thing in your post nor in some of the other posts on here that I've read.
Maybe it's different in every state? I don't know.
In my divorce I did win full custody of my children but it was only after I was able to PROVE that there was domestic violence and there was a history of this from the X. The laws in our state are very clear about abuse and custody. These laws always side for the child.
As I was saying, take a deep breath, set aside the emotions of the moment and if you would feel willing please post something of detail that would help explain how on earth this woman won full custody other than her own ability to lie.
Thank you.
- February 1, 2009 at 9:11 AM
(Kim) Ok, the full custody. Long story. She originally sent a ten page letter to the courts with accusations about my husband not spending any time with his son and how her current husband (whom she's divorced from now) was a better father. The courts still awarded joint custody at that point. Well, I have two sons (now 14 and 9) at the time I believe they were 4 and 9-my step-son was 7. Supposedly they were playing, you show me yours, I'll show you mine, and daring each other to kiss one another's privates. When my husband and I found out, we sat the boys down, talked to them about "curiosity" and the inappropriateness of what had happened. My step-son had to go home that night and his mother was going out after picking him up. My husband and I were planning on calling her in the am and telling her what had happened and what we had done about it. INSTEAD the next day we get a call from CPS (the ex's brother actually works for them in our county) telling us there was an allegation of sexual abuse and that we could not see our step-son. The result was her having full control of an impressionable 7 year old mind for two weeks, in which time she managed to convice my step-son that we locked him in his room alone at night with his brothers, that this had been occuring since me and the boys moved in, etc, etc. She accused my boys of being sexual deviants. She sent CPS to my youngest son's pre-school to have him interviewed insisting that my husband was a deviant that had watched and encouraged this behavior getting off on it. All three boys had to go to therapy, along with us-interviews with CPS agents, etc. She had met with the therapist several times before we went in and had conviced him that we were liars, even went so far as to get statements from him saying that we were lying. My husband and I were ordered to take parenting classes, the kids and us remained in therapy, husband had supervised visitation at the court, for a year and she was awarded full custody. After about six months, our therapist started seeing that maybe we weren't liars, and she was manipulating him. He petitioned the court to remove the visitation restrictions and offered to testify in court for us that we were good parents. She called him at his office and threatened to have him disbarred if he testified for us. This I believe is when he realized she was not right. She then pulled her son out of his care and transferred him to a new therapist she could manipulate and had it approved by the courts. Even with his testimony, the courts still believed her and the CPS agent she tricked. This whole time mind you, her and my husband had to go to therapy alone together as well, and those meetings were always full of her telling the therapist and my husband that I was a liar, a manipulator and was trying to destroy my husband's life. Her biggest complaint to the both of them is that he didn't want to be her friend anymore, and that was my fault! She went so far as to bring in emails they had sent each other since being divorced to "prove" how great of buddies they used to be.
She has since re-married again and for awhile, all has been quiet, there's been issues in between, but now she's starting her crap again, so she must be bored with her new man. My husband in always afraid that she'll drag him back into court, because they always believe her, never us. There is no proof of anything, except our word, as she's very good-she won't put things in writing, it's done now through her son or on the cell phones. There's just so much, six years now of BS and games, and horror, I think I got the basics down for you-ask if it seems I missed something, because like I said, there's so much to it, I'm bound to leave something out somewhere. Just so you know, my husband and I care about our family more than anything, we would do anything for our kids, money means nothing so long as you have your family. We are extremely caring, devoted parents and she knows this and uses it as well. Thanks for your comments.
- February 1, 2009 at 9:40 AM
(Kim) P.S. another HUGE issue with her when all this was going on was that her and her husband remain on contact. That talking to each other about everything going on was vital to her son's well being, because he had been damaged. For about a year and a half now, she's decided that my son's are no longer a threat to her son and he's allowed over here whenever she has something to do and doesn't want him along. She's also decided that telling my husband what's going on with his son is only neccesary sometimes. He'll call her out on things, like failing to tell him his son was caught smoking, etc. and she says, "I left it up to him to tell you" or "we handled it". Then other times throws a fit if my husband doesn't tell her every little thing. The rules change constantly, depending on her mood and what it'll do for her.
- February 1, 2009 at 9:53 AM
Thank you so much for your open willingness to share these obviously painful events.
All I can say is WOW. That and I shake my head because after what has happened to me I have sought out other people to hear their stories in order to maybe understand how in the world all of this gets to the frenzied point that it does.
Your first problem there was that the X's brother worked for CPS. Manipulative freaks just LOVE authority like that holy crap I'm surprised that you even have a house left to stay in. My X's mother was the county nurse (now retired) and she just LOVED to use that as a threat! Her office sat directly across from the sheriff's office and you know it's with the treats each day and the shmooozing at coffee breaks ect..ect...
So she threatened me with a 'psychological evaluation'. No threat of course because I have nothing to hide. The only thing that saved me is that like I say I had enough proof against my X and also her husband is a complete psychotic freak that the sheriff has had years of problems with so she knew there was still that thread of doubt where someone might not believe her lies.
You have been through a lot. I honestly struggle with this daily at trying to understand how one single person can cause so much trouble in our lives.
I am just going to add this however...
Small children do not get the idea to pull their pants down and dare to kiss each other's privates all on their own. Whether by some accidental exposure to porn at someone's house or by the suggestion of an older child somewhere along the line.
I'm only saying this because somewhere one of those boys was exposed to someone either through pictures or suggestions that showed them how to do that.
Curiousity is 'normal' but in some cases, like whenever my eyebrow tenses up when I learn of these things then I think there's more to it.
I'm not saying your husband did anything I just saying this for your own benefit that you might want to take a look at the people who come in contact with your kids...neighbors, babysitters, even the X wife's new husband? Who knows.
Every day I'm tempted to delete this link and stop reading here, but then I think that by reading other people's stories I understand that I'm not alone in this effort and that my story is just another in the millions that have gone through this.
Best of luck.
- February 1, 2009 at 10:14 AM
(Kim) Believe me, I'm glad you didn't, because it DOES help to know that other people at the very least do understand the terror and helplessness we feel sometimes. Try telling it to someone who's never been there-they just look at you like ooookkkkk.... it takes someone who's been effected to understand, and it helps to know I can at least get some kind of empathy here. I know I won't get that from ERIC, but I am hoping I can hear his opinions on all of this-knowledge IS power, and I need some power. :)
BTW-I do not know with the sexual things, we don't keep anything like that in our home, it could be at the other parent's houses. The kids won't say on that front. But since all of this started (it's been about 5 years now), there have been reoccurences with the step-son. Ie: he's attempted things with his mom's other two kids (his half sister and brother) and with two of her brother's kids (his cousins). So I tend to lean towards him being exposed and teaching my boys instead of the other way around. we've attempted to get him back into therapy-but she refuses, and I know in part that's because 1. we want to do it, she can't manipulate a therapist as easily if we go in first and 2. if he does go back in, with all the previous therapy sessions being documented, she might be caught in a lie.
Thanks again for your support. :)
Together maybe we stand a chance.
- February 1, 2009 at 10:24 AM
(Kim) I have another question-I am wondering what a sociopath was like as a child? I know there are "warning signs" and they can't be "diagnosed" until they are 18. But did they ever experience feelings? Or have they always been void of emotion?
- February 1, 2009 at 2:24 PM
(George Cromwell III) HAHA... this is great. As a SP I never thought I would come across so many dumb-asses willing to spew their hearts for me to make notes. Eric you are great as well. Nothing more fun then playtime with another SP. Fear and happiness is all excitement/rush. Thats all I've ever felt is the rush and the anger towards the walking toys I move from playing with to destroying... Tata all, sweet dreams; remember life is a game, just play.
- February 1, 2009 at 9:49 PM
I was the employer of a sociopath. Unfortunately, for most people, the discovery of the sociopath's true nature comes too late. However, if by chance you think you have identified one, I can offer you the following advice.
1. Never, ever, let him/her know you know.
2. Practice your pokerface. This is vital. It is very important not to flinch or show emotion of any sort when he/she speaks to you - no matter what they say!
3. As soon as the person has made a comment, make a mental note to check the facts by whatever means necessary. Phone calls to previous employers, friends, family, etc.
4. Remember that a "good" person does not use emotion to manipute. Do not feel sorry for them, not ever.
5. They are very verbally astute and almost able to read your mind. I would even go as far as to say they can guess your deepest disires. When they make comments that hit a nerve, do not breakdown. You must stay strong.
6. Without the person knowing, enlist support from co-workers, friends and family, so they cannnot continue to perpetuate their lies (but still thinking they are fooling everyone) Soon, they will feel a loss of control as suddenly no one believes them anymore. This is almost soul destroying for the sociopath.
7. When the sociopath realises he/she can no longer "win" they will retreat faster than you can say "get lost".
8. I cannot emphasise how important it is to always stay true to your personal values. These people are so manipulate they will have you doing and saying things that are totally out of character. In desperate times,do not rely on your emotions as a guide around these people. You must use your logic and stick to rules. For example, if you do not believe in drug use, never, ever, be persuaded to do so. Do not lower your personal standards for anyone. Do not be lulled into demeaning sexual scenarious to keep them happy. You must always keep your dignity and make it clear that you are not prepared to compromise your standards - not for anyone (and that includes sociopaths).
These people are realling testing you out to see how far they can control you and to what extend they can twist your mind and your personal convictions.
The particular sociopath that I came into contact with had a history of causing one woman to have a sex change. They are dangerous people and must be treated with the utmost seriousness and carefulness. Do not make hasty decisions. Play your cards close to your chest, go behind their back, do whatever you have to "expose" the person. However, you must never let on that it is you causing him or her to "lose". In the meantime, patch up your life and your relationships and get everthing back on track. Life is joyful and fulfilling for good people who know how to show love and receive love. God Bless.
- February 2, 2009 at 4:07 AM
(George Cromwell III)
" I cannot emphasise how important it is to always stay true to your personal values."
"Play your cards close to your chest, go behind their back"
The juxtaposition is hilarious. I think all you people who think you are seeing SP boogie men are just jilted lovers grasping at straws. Who ever hurt you, hurt you because you are the messed up one. Accepting that is the first step to your own recovery.
A real SP can only exploit what is already in you. So if you have met a real SP, it is ultimately your own faults that drew them to you.
- February 2, 2009 at 8:48 AM
(George Cromwell III)
"Every day I'm tempted to delete this link and stop reading here"
Do it, Kim. Your stupidity shines through in your attempts to gain power from Eric.
- February 2, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Hey George, unknowingly you've given us all another insight into sociopaths. You've proven that they aren't all intelligent. And your attempt to bait, anger or stop people from coming here, getting peace or posting is laughable. Thanks! :)
- February 2, 2009 at 11:31 AM
(George Cromwell III)
What insight would that be... that SP's like to bait and anger people? I think that's already been, uhh, you know covered to some extent. I'm glad I could give you some insight you didn't glean from Adam's article or Eric's musings.
Really though, keep posting people. The guy who posted above is correct, my attempts are laughable. Keep fighting the good fight! LMAO :)
- February 2, 2009 at 11:49 AM
george you sound like a numero uno jerk. this shouldnt be a place for trolls like you. everyone should be able to feels safe because maybe they cant in life. the internet isnt a place to troll people.
- February 2, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Hi George! Why do you hurt people. Do you do it for the same reasons as Eric? Seems like a hollow and emty life I couldnt imagine wanting to be like that. Eric what do you think of George?
- February 2, 2009 at 12:21 PM
GC III, your comments are vomit. Notice how we have ignored you until now? You started with trying to trash Adam, but unsuccessfully b/c you didn't know what you were talking about. No one dignified your posts with an answer until you became a nuisance. You're a pimple on this web site. Why don't you find yourself a nice toilet & slither down?
- February 2, 2009 at 12:46 PM
I think everyone needs to go back to IGNORING George. Let him be a nuisance, let him say outrageous things, let him do what SP's do best. Everyone answering him, making comments to him is feeding him. It's what he WANTS. The person who posted that George was unintelligent was absolutely correct-if you notice from his post, he didn't even pick up on the fact that someone called him stupid. Anyway, let's ban together and show him that there ARE indeed people who aren't affected by SP's, those who can ignore him. Just expect a major tantrum and lots of "baiting" when he's ignored. :) Buh-bye George!
- February 2, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Please also read his posts VERY closely, anyone who's dealing with or attempting to understand a sociopath can see what's there. He's attempting to make everyone here feel like it's their fault they met a sociopath to begin with. Trys to break you down, displaces the fault, makes you angry. Read his posts again, see that it all makes sense and use your logic for understanding, let it be a LEARNING experience for everyone here. He can be your labratory rat, study him, just don't respond to him.
- February 2, 2009 at 1:27 PM
reading all this is starting to really scare me.
I feel like i am possibly in a relationship with a sociopath. When i first met him he said he was 25 and never married. Come to find out he is 34 and has been married and divorced. I am 20 so this age difference was a big deal. I left and quit talking to him until he told me that i liked him when i thought he was 25 and the only thing that has changed about him was a number. He was still the same guy. So stupid me i took him back. here recently we got in a bad arguement which ended with me having a black eye. He didnt punch me he pushed me down and my face hit the tile floor. I left him again and was nothing but mean to him but he kept begging me back. I have been nice to him because he tells me im his only friend here and i just feel bad for him ....what does everyone think??
- February 2, 2009 at 2:56 PM
(Eric) Wow these postings have taken quite a turn from people helping people to people asking a sociopath for help, to a sociopath criticizing your insecurities and now to everyone bitching at George. Personally this blog had gotten quite boring for me so I stopped answering questions and responding in any way. First off, George is not stupid, he displays intellect in his answers, he just has no concern for what you think of him, and he wants you to bitch at him because he thinks it is funny, and honestly it is a little humorous. I never responded to Kim's remarks about me having no control over my life etc, because she 1) has no idea what she is talking about, 2) brags about an intellect she does not have and 3) she has been abused over and over and saw me as someone she could release her anger on and gain back a bit of her lost pride. I also did not want to have an uneducated argument with an emotional little baby. I did not come here to be criticized or praised, I simply thought it would be mildly entertaining to hear your stories and give advice and see if the victims here would be so quick to open up and give into the very thing they were trying to escape, a sociopath, and they did. I really don't care about any of your lives but I am not trying to ruin your lives because its not entertaining to me. It's true, to sociopaths life is a game, but there are some games that don't look fun, and this became one of them. Now someone asked what I thought about George. I thought he was funny and he could read into your answers better than the rest of you, it is a gift of the sociopath which I share. Geroge clearly acts more aggressive than me in these posts however, I do not think he is more sociopathic than me, in fact I believe it is the ones that seem the most normal and trustworthy that are the most dangerous. I also don't choose to attack people on this blog because even if I do destroy your life I don't see your reaction and I don't know you, so it means nothing to me. I also don't seek out victims, they are drawn to me and they don't become prey until they annoy or inconvenience me. Also, do you guys realize this isn't real life? It is just a internet blog, if it becomes too emotional or offensive to you, you can just click the X in the top right. Most of you seek help, well I would suggest a therapist or a support group but if you spill your guts on the internet your asking for people to mock or tease you, even if they are not sociopaths, becuase to most people this isn't real, it is a place where people can be whoever they want to be without others knowing them. Be careful what you say, and don't insult me becuase I think it is quite obvious I have a better understanding of the truth in this world than the rest of you. I will still answer your questions but it is unlikely I will respond to your ridiculous attempts to make me angry that's actual purpose is to make yourself feel better. Remember I can read you people better than you can read me.
- February 2, 2009 at 4:24 PM
I have known that my almost 18 year old son is a sociopath for a couple of years. He's been in and out of juvenile hall like 6 or 7 times. He's been at a juvenile camp twice and a group home for 6 months. He's used up everybody in his life, including his "friends" and especially me, his mother, and now he is homeless and breaking into my garage and sleeping on the floor. He had a great job but messed that up so now he's just mooching off anyone who will support him. I gave him an iphone for christmas and he's already brought the bill up to almost 300.00... that I have to pay because until he turns 18, it is in my name. He can make himself appear so darn sweet but he always has ulterior motives. He doesn't care about anyone and looking at him, I can't see how he can sink any lower but he doesn't even seem to think there is a problem! I'm about ready to have a nervous breakdown and I want to know if anybody knows of any support groups for parents of sociopaths???
- February 2, 2009 at 4:34 PM
(George Cromwell III)
"The person who posted that George was unintelligent was absolutely correct-if you notice from his post, he didn't even pick up on the fact that someone called him stupid."
I live every day just to turn people into the things they hate, it's just so easy. Think I'm stupid, think I'm smart... it's just the start.
"Geroge clearly acts more aggressive than me in these posts"
No need to cater on the internet. Plus, the emotional knee-jerking in communities like these full of jilted lovers, jealous friends and vindictive relatives makes for easy button pushing.
"It is just a Internet blog, if it becomes too emotional or offensive to you, you can just click the X in the top right."
I think all the people hear would feel a bit better if they learned from our kind and just let things/people go. Take a walk, volunteer and forget about your pithy lives.
Everyone one this forum needs to realize how unimportant they really are.
I'm out, I feel validated and better... who knew a place like this could really bring peace. Thanks guys! ;P
- February 2, 2009 at 10:01 PM
How do you get rid of a sociopath? My ex daughter-in-law is a nightmare. And after 2 years still spends everyday making my sons and our entire families lives hell. There are 3 children who suffer at her whim daily. Will she ever move her attacks to someone else? Is ignoring her best? She tends to avoid me because I believe she knows I am not afraid of her and would stand nose to nose at anytime. I do not cover up or run away and it does seem to comfort my grandchildren to see someone who will stand up to her. Now I never name call, accuse, curse, yell or anything like that. I state facts and make statments as to what is and is not acceptable. But how do you deal with this type person?
- February 3, 2009 at 8:43 AM
Eric or anyone else that has any thoughts. My old live in boyfriend of 5 years has seriously lost his mind. He had a not so good, but steady job when we met, then quit 6 months after moving into my condo. He has always been lazy, unkept, reckless, and lacking goals or future plans. I am a happy independent business owner who normally doesn't take crap from anyone. 1 1/2 years of unemployment went by with no looking for a job. Numerous fights would be twisted on to me with low blows and then his tears that "he has problems" whenever I threatened to kick him out. Now i know that all the tears were manipulation. i finally got him a job and then the real abuse began. he started with-holding sex and drinking till 5am EVERYDAY. He liked the fact that i felt unattractive and unwanted. once i reached my breaking point he said that he has feelings for someone else at the bar, but loved me and wanted to do anything to save our relationship. he said he would stop drinking and stay out of that bar. that last 2 days, back in the same bar and very verbally abusive to me when i caught him there. Then again, tears the next morning about how many problems he has. this went on all summer he watched cry in bed and continued to text this girl, ( who never had any interest in him )hang out at the bar, and lie to me that he was going to get his life in order. he finally quit the job that i got for him after 6 months, and just 3 days before a cat scan to detect blood in his urine and stool. i was so upset cause now he didnt have health insurance. his response was "who cares iam going to be dead in 10 years anyways".
That was the final straw. Once i kicked him out he became very verbally abusive and then, as always, turns on the faucet to stay. when i said get out, he beat the shit out of me, pulled out a knife and threatened to kill me. Since that day, he has tried to break in my condo twice, has left numerous voicemails, not to apologize but to put me down, has shown up at my neighborhood hangouts to scare me, and has threatened suicide to me and to his friends. i have spoken to him once in this 5 month period. i asked him when he was planning on apologizing and he said " for what, i just fell for someone else". He is 37 years old, has NO money, no job, no credit and is living on his parents couch.
This person has ALL the characteristics of a sociopath. Will he ever leave me alone or will i have to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life?
- February 3, 2009 at 10:24 AM
ok so ive read alot of thing that were on this page. and i do feel that i am a sociopath also, but how could i know for sure? the thing that really tipped me off was that fact that i hate my father to death, and he hasnt done a thing to me.(well alot of emotional damage, hes an alcoholic.but ive gotten to the point where it doesnt phase me anymore) he is pretty nice(when hes not drinking) and sweet and trys really hard for me not to hate him. and some times i feel bad that i hate him so much, but it passes . i am openly mean and i dont know why. and i know some of you will just think im some bitch. but what ever. when i see someone that looks great and has a smile on their face , i will break them down to make them feel horrible(and i love it) i ALWAYS have to pick out bad things about the way people look even if i dont say it to their faces. like sometimes i will be walking through the halls at my school ( haha im only in middle school) and i will look at each person that passes my way and find a way in my head that i could break them down with. weather it be calling names or doing something. i dont really put MOST of these into action but theres always that thought. so tell me what you think. am i crazy, some dumb ass 14 year old making problems for herself(ive gotten that one alot) or what ever.
- February 3, 2009 at 5:24 PM
im the same person who just wrote that comment. and oh ive always been drawn to people who have problems whether with their home life or what have you, why do you think this is? maybe its because they are easier to control, i dont know.. and i said yes to most of the questions on that page, but ive also always wanted to be a psychologist, i also dont know if that has ANYTHING to do with it but what ever i guess.
- February 3, 2009 at 5:40 PM
question for Eric...have you ever cried for any reason? I am trying to figure out if my guy is this type of person. He has EVERY sign. I don't want to go into detail for it would sound just the same as every story on here.I have seen him cry once and I'm pretty sure it was real. Does that negate all possibilities? One other question... do you ever tell people you want to be a better man when caught or when losing the game? Do you use this as a manipulation tool? As a man who wants to show no weekness, do you still show it in manipulation in any way, or is that something that you couldn't stand to do even to win back power?
- February 4, 2009 at 3:11 AM
SP's seem to cry on demand. My male SP cried the day I met him to show me how sweet & sensitive he is !! They can cry without sorrow; they can attack without anger; they can display any dramatic emotion without feeling it. At least, that's my experience, but I, too, would be very interested in Eric's response.
SP's are emotional people. They are not as emotionally impoverished as these comments would lead one to believe. While they have no empathy for others, they feel their own pain profoundly. They have very deep concern for their own wellbeing and seem to feel sorry for themselves all the time. So, I would imagine that tears can be real at times, even if exaggerated. It's all about exploiting other people's feelings.
While we're at it, I have another question about women for Eric. In your answer to my previous questions, you said, "... even if I ever fell in love ..." Do you think you're capable of falling in love? Are you able to give & receive love? You said something about being able to make girls fall in love with you rather easily. Do you feel any tenderness towards a woman who loves you? Do you appreciate her love in any way other than using it to your advantage? And does it always have to be tit-for-tat? Always deals? Do you ever do anything for somebody else without getting something in return? Do you keep score in your head and feel they owe you one? I mean, your girlfriends in particular.
- February 4, 2009 at 7:24 AM
But what about if your own child is a sociopath??? This is the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with in my whole life? My baby (even though he is almost 18) he just turns on that charm, long enough to get what he wants but I'm onto him and I WILL NOT ENABLE HIM!!! God, this is tough!
- February 4, 2009 at 11:01 AM
To Mama and Lucky, I've been away from the site trying to settle into my new home. I love my new home and it has never been tainted by the SPex which makes it even better. I spent the evening catching up on all the new posts. It seems there is no end to the victims and the world is full of people hurting people. But I am living proof that life does get better. It is still hard at times. My ex stepdaughter has a birthday soon and I'm torn between not wanting to hurt her by not acknowledging it and doing what is best for me in the long run and letting it all go. I guess what is still so hard for me to understand is the way that almost a decade of time with someone with kids involved just ends with no contact. I don't get the ability to disconnect with people that you spent so much time with as a family. But when it comes to Sp's, I guess there will never be a true understanding of how they live their lives.
- February 4, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Congratulations on the new home, I wish you much peace and happiness there :)
As for your ex stepdaughter's BD I don't feel I am qualified to give you advice or even voice an opinion on that one, I have chosen not to have any contact with my ex BF's family because we never saw each other anyway and had no communication so what would be the point now? It is different for you, so I wish you luck in dealing with that very sensitive issue.
As for me, I have started meditating and I have gone a full 7 days without looking up any info on him. I know he has another pre-trial date Feb 18th but I have not looked for anything new on him.
Day by day it gets easier, the hardest part is coming up, his BD is Feb 26th and I am trying really hard to block it out of my mind :)
Take care of you!
- February 5, 2009 at 6:30 AM
I would like to hear from Eric or someone with some insite on this. My son was 2 months shy of 4 years old when his father shot himself. He was alone in the house with him when this happened. It is believed that he (my son) woke up to find his father dead. I arrived several hours later from work to find my young son and his dead father. Growing up my son and I had a pretty close relationship. Although I had my own healing to do my children were the reason I woke up out of bed everyday and FACED the painful healing proces. My son is now 16 years old and is flunking out of school. As silly as it may sound I believe he is flunking purposely. It seems to be a control issue. He knows I care about school and grades so he is "showing" me. Since puberty he has developed some personality traits that are disturbing....VERY disturbing. Not normal teenage lying but it is as if he believes his own lies. Very grandious sence of self. ALWAYS right. Very black and white. There is the wrong perspective and the wrong answer and then there is his perspective and his answer and of course this is the right answer. No grey areas whatsoever. Control, blaming others, lack of empathy, manipulation, and a very high regard to his own sence of self. And I somehow get the feeling that although I have loved and nurtured him his whole life he doesn't "feel" the love? He asked me EVERY day of his life if I loved him or his brother more? (during the ages of maybe 6-10 years of age) I always answered that I loved them both the same. And although I thought the question odd at the time because it wasn't coupled with other troubling behaviour I just thought him to NEED the answer to that question. In hindsight that was the earliest troubling behaviour I noted other than after the suicide first happened he had some display of anger that wasn't his normal behavior before the suicide. The therapist said it would cease and to always just let him talk his "baby talk" about events as he sometimes did.
Many of the personality traits I see in him now that are surfacing seem to fit the steriotype of severe personality disorder, including sociopath.
I have lived the last 12 years of my life feeling that somehow my son was going to have dificulty with the death of his father. Suicide feels like the ULTIMATE rejection....The ultimate F___ Y__, if you will. I know this to be true. However, I guess even in my worst nightmare would I have thought that if i were asked to write a list of my sons personality traits at the age of 16 years old that they would scare the hell out of me. His mother who should only be able to see the good in him. PLEASE anyone with any advice that is legitimate advise me. Is this signs of him being a sociopath or another personality disorde, is this post tramatic syndrome?? what avenues should I be reaching out to? He is currently been seeing a councelor but a state funded deal and it is going nowhere.
- February 5, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Eric...Where are you? We are all waiting anxiously for your responses!!
- February 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I think the batteries on Eric's LEAP PAD have finally gone dead.
I have read through these posts off and on and as any of you know, any amount of time you spend on the internet you will ALWAYS seem to find some of these types of people who feel compelled to come on here and play childish games and call names and try to come across as some type of authority.
Who cares.
And YAWN.
Just ignore these flakes that come on here and spew their immature attempts to look witty and intelligent. I have no idea what kind of personality disorder they have but there are millions of them out there in the world and I think the best policy has been for me to keep walking past them like I would ANY other piece of trash.
Having written that, I wouldn't bother begging Eric to come on here and post his response. WHO CARES.
Now for the above post about the young man who now is grandiose behaviors.
I say to you this...
WHAT is it about teenagers that will absolutely drive us to pull at our hair I have no idea. I personally think he's just testing you and because of the trauma of his childhood you perhaps are attempting to read into his actions.
I have nearly the exact thing going on in my home and I finally set boundries down. I explained to my teen this: "I love you, you know I love you but I won't be afraid in my own home NOT BY ANYONE. If you insist on acting violent I will call the police and you will be sent off PLAIN AND SIMPLE".
Understand that his behavior had spiraled out of control by then. It's time for parents to take back control in their own households. Hey, we loved, fed, sheltered, clothed and took care of these kids and now this is how they are going to treat us? I taught him better than that and he knows it.
I got caught up in thinking that simply because he was older he wasn't throwing fits like a two year old anymore. Not true! They still are pushing buttons and testing the boundries in every way they can think of.
Oh, the other thing that has worked marvelously for me is to not show my anger. I use to get very angry with him and raise my voice as if somehow that would teach him who was in charge. I think it was an adrenaline rush for him and after awhile it just became a game. Now? Cool as a cucumber don't let 'em see you sweat.
This will bother them worse than anything because then their little brain is just a twirling to try to figure out what is going on. I'm not talking about sweet talking them, I mean just cut and dry conversation when they are out of control. Don't buy into their games.
I think the reason we suspect our teens of being sociopaths is simply because at that age they are so manipulative.
This is all simply MY OPINION. I hold no degree.
Take care.
- February 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM
Eric please talk to me....I guess the reason I am asking you this question (does it seem odd or pathetic to be asking a sociopath to recognise symtoms of another) is because somehow I have the feeling you will know. You are young and it wasn't so long ago that you were 16.
Although it might seem odd or pathetic to onlookers me asking you this question I personally don't see it as ood. I suppose I believe in the old saying...Takes one to know one.
I know I can instantly feel the pain when I meet another whos loved one has died by suicide.
- February 5, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I appreciate the above comment about hormones and defiant teenage behaviour....I really do. However I wouldn't be looking on the internet for symtoms of sociopathic behaviors or other personality disorders if I felt that I hadn't exausted EVERY thing I know how to do as a parent. The LAST thing I want to believe is that my son has a disorder or illness that is not treatable in the sence of having a good outcome.
I have an older son that I went through all of the "normal" teenage frustrations & pulling ones hair out.....
It is something in his eyes when I am trying to get through to him. They are cold, distant, and expressionless. He doesn't show emotions. He seems very much in control and doesn't seem to respond to reason, emotions, anything for that matter. It is almost "chilling" the kind of thing that makes the hair stand up on your arms. During these times he seems to be much older than his years although in some other ways he seems VERY imature to me.
- February 5, 2009 at 1:27 PM
This is for Eric,
Eric, I believe I've been a victim from a Sociopath. I've met him at work, and lets call him John. We both work in the Compute Technology field. When we met, it was an immediate close friendship. He was very charming, funny, highly intelligent....he reeled me in, when his sad stories about his ex-girlfriend....let's call her Doris. He would tell me how she abused him, broke his nose, locked him up in the basement, how she was a total control freak, a manipulator...just lot's of negative qualities about her....however he was still living with her. He decided to quit our current work place, because he said he needed to make things work at home, because Doris was threatening to soak him for everthing he's got...she wanted half of his house, if he decided to leave her, and she was going after him to pay for child support (not his kids, from her previous marriage)....
So John hands in his resignation, and the day after, he comes into work, and tells everyone at work, that Doris served him with papers....We were all devastated for John, so we tried to see if he can stay longer at work instead of the 1 month deal, him and management agreed upon. Management said no, because management and John were not on very good terms.
Anyhow, during the last month John remained at work, he would give me compliments such as; you're f'n hot, you're a babe, any guy would be so lucky to have you....just lot's of flattery...he also knew my marriage was coming to an end...so he made me feel desirable, and fed me the attention I was seeking.....
However, the day came he left our work, and we sort of lost contact.
Because I knew many people in our industry, I was able to land him a very high paying job...and I emailed him months later and asked him if he would be interested in the job? He said sure....and he would email me and tell me how horrible his life has been since he left is work, how doris kicked him out of his own home...and how her kids hated him, and how he was forced to live on the camp grounds....just made you feel so sorry for him....we met up just before he started his work, and tried to kiss me....and I just didn't feel right about it....however I was attracted to him...anyhow, he continues on stating that now that he is employed he is working with his lawyers to get Doris and her kids out of hte house....mind you he is also telling the same story to other people that know me....and he describes Doris to be a real wacko..and describes her to be ugly and old (she is 10 years his senior)...
Anyhow, now that he started his new job, at the beginning he was very grateful and so appreciative for my help....then the nightmare began....he would blame me if the boss would upset him, and he would blame me, and say that I'm stupid for having such friends....
Then days or weeks go by, and he would apologize and say that he was just having a bad day, and that I shouldn't take what he says to heart....
I ask him how are things progressing with his ex situation (Doris) he says that he decided to look into an apartment, because her lawyer said that she should live in his house until the kids finish school...
he would tell me how she stalks him and ocntinues to harass him, and how she would threaten to do something horrible if she finds out if he dates another girl...and apparently Doris found out about me...meanwhile John and I are just friends, talking stage, we would go out for dinner, and talk dirty on the phone which John loved to do with me.....and he would promise me if I'd give him teh chance to make love to me, I wouldn't want any other man....just lot's of blah blah blah...
So last fast forward to my birthday in November...he calls me one night and tells me that if I were to go to his apartment right there and than, he'd give me a million dollars...I said what for? he said he had a birthday present, and he is really anxious to give it to me.....
I had to decline, and I told him I'll see the following day....
Whatever happened after that...was a total nightmare....he ignored me, and one time he called me a f'n WACKO and to STOP calling him...
I had no clue what I did? that had him turn on me to this magnitude, I demanded to know why?
He told me he doesn't need to give an explanation, and he said he NEVER Cared about me...
So I never called him for a couple of weeks, and then I decided to call him again to test the waters to see what had him so upset and angry towards me...
...Guess who calls me that evening? Doris phones on his Cell phone...and she tells me that her and John were always an item, they never broke up, that wasn't his house, he was never abused by him, he isn't worth 500 thousand, he is in a hole(debts), she was the one who was abused, he is an alcoholic, and smokes pot on a daily basis...
...He told Doris that I'm OBESE/Ugly, I have a face of a pig...and that is the total opposite...he denied to Doris that her and I had this type of relationship or that he said all those things about her....
I saved all the corresponding emails and forward them to Doris....I even had Doris listen in on a conversation with John, where he currently still denies he is with Doris, and she heard this...(The day Doris called me, he was so doped up and drunk and he told Doris to call me and to stop calling him)...meanwhile I had no idea Doris and JOhn were still together? He told Doris I was Stalking him or Harassing him? Meanwhile he would tell me the same things about Doris to me....
Doris and I became very good friends....He was living in an apartment, because Doris has two children, and she asked him to move out of the house until he gets his act together, to control his drinking and substance abuse(marijuana), but they always were together....
What triggered John to turn on me? Was it because I rejected him when he asked me to go to his apartment? Doris and I compared dates, and shortly after my Birthday he asks Doris that he wants a baby with her?
I totally stopped talking to him, after I heard that him and Doris were an item....
He confesses undying love to Doris, he says that I'm a liar, and I'm doing this because I always wanted him...just so much B.S.
He says he hates me, and that he wants to kill me now....
John tells Doris that I'm waiting for him, and that eventually I will call him....
Not sure why he would think that?
I want to get even with him....by me not communicating with him...is it bothering him?
Why do sociopaths smoke marijuana? Do they find relief in that?
He says he has low self esteem, that is why he lied to me??
Sorry for the lengthly letter....tell me your thoughts, thank you Eric...
- February 5, 2009 at 1:43 PM
(Eric) Wow, I'll try and answer these questions, I've been pretty busy lately, I got kicked out of my residence and moved to another one. I'll start from the first about crying. Personally, I don't cry because I would completely ashamed of myself. However, this way be because I was raised this way and not because I am a sociopath, but regardless I have not actually cried since I was about 10. When I was young I realized I could cry on command, tears and everything and I used this to manipulate or prevoke certain emotions in others, I was never actually emotionally hurt. I also noticed that if I am physically injured I can immediately control my reactions and become completely calm even if I just suffered a major physical pain. I can switch my appearance in a second, from furious to joking, from joking to furious, and because this seems impossible I have come to the conclusion that I choose what emotion to display and in fact do not have these emotions, I just mimic them. Crying does not negate the possibility of being a sociopath if he has a specific plan for his crying, for example you have confronted him about being a sociopath he might cry and tell you he was abused as a child and has never been able to get over it, making you disregard your beliefs and believe whatever he tells you. I would never result to crying to follow through with my plan; I use alternate tactics that are much more challenging and keep me appearing as someone who is better, tougher, stronger and more intelligent. Don't get caught up in determining if he is a sociopath based on crying because he will do anything to get what he wants, it means nothing to him, if he a sociopath, it's just another emotion to mimic. I never tell people I want to be a better man, because in my opinion I have yet to find someone better than me. It is incredibly narcissitic I am aware, but when you constantly manipulate and outwit everyone you come in contact with it's hard to believe that others are better than you when I consistently take advantage of people and leave them broken down as I laugh and feel empowered. I never show weakness, and in some way I guess that is my weakness. I cannot allow others to feel better than me, more intelligent or that they are winning. I will win in the end, I always do. Okay next question from Bell about women. No, I do not think I will ever fall in love because I seem to be unable to experience the same feelings and attachment that others are able to. Some may say it is because the right person has yet to come along, this is plausible but in my opinion not likely, but you never know I am still young. I do not give affection to people but I certainly take it, I live a life of relationships where I am constantly taking but I do not give back anything. To me it seems like a waste of time when I can just sit back and have people do things for me while I do nothing for them. I do not feel tenderness towards a woman that loves me. To me getting people to fall in love with me is a game and once they do, it's game over, I have won. I can now use these people and take advantage of them because they know how much it would hurt them if they anger me and I suddenly dismiss them from my life. However, it is not as though I have no female friends, I have several close female friends that have no idea what I am. Not everyone is a target to me, some people see me as a normal, caring, sensitive friend they can talk to. I do not exploit these people because I sometimes want to be around them so I am less bored and it is also more enjoyable to be around beautiful women whenever I want. I want and need these types of relationships to appear normal; even though they say sociopathy is an anti-social personality disorder I do not believe that means we want to be alone all the time. I would not do something for somebody for no reason, even if it appears that way. Everything I do, even generous acts have a motive behind them that are selfish. I do not keep score in my head, because it is rather obvious who has power in the relationship but the second the other person makes an attempt to create a balance that relationship ends. This exact example has just happened to me in real life. I will answer more questions later, I am getting tired. And don't comment about mistakes in my grammar because I am not looking over what I wrote it is too long.
- February 5, 2009 at 2:53 PM
(Eric) Oh and justamama your an idiot. You say it is a game to me answering these questions to feel empowered or whatever, I'm just curious what your doing? Immediately after you said disregard my answers some people come here just for attention you answer a question for the same purpose. It seems as though your little intro is an exact definition of what you are doing... You also say some people feel compelled to come back and answer questions, well once again what are you doing? By saying don't listen to me because I am unintelligent then telling someone to listen to your advice is your contradictory way of saying, "Hey look at me I am the intelligent one here, everyone disregard Eric because I need attention too." Your a walking, talking contradiction. I don't even read your advice or constant babbling because it is idiotic nonsense from which your only experience on sociopaths is when you were severely abused and emotionally scarred by one. What advice are you going to give? How to get screwed by a sociopath? How to avoid a sociopath, even though you were clearly targeted? How to get back at a sociopath on the internet so you can feel better about yourself? Or just how to appear to be intelligent on the internet? If you were giving helpful, knowledgable advice people would ask you things, but you don't because your an idiot. You also tell people not to anger a sociopath and to avoid them yet you are confronting a sociopath right now? Why do you give advice to which you don't follow? Other people aren't insulting me, and they don't seem to be being targeted by me, maybe idiocracy is what attracts sociopaths? Or maybe we target retards who think they have intelligence just to knock them down to the level they should be at? Would you like to have some type of insult fest with me? Do you really think you know more about sociopaths than a sociopath? Are you really justamama or justamoron? Are you just angry that your overweight and ugly and the only people that will touch you are sociopaths who want to abuse you? P.S. you are sooooo much more intelligent than me it's too overwhelming for me to reply, please stop intellectually raping me.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:09 PM
I'm loving this.
Eric the self-proclaimed Sociopath.
You've decided your only "intellectual" recourse is to call an anonymous poster names on the internet! HAHAHAAAA AHAHAHAHAHAAA
And you consider yourself a master manipulator.
This is so entertaining I might just cancel my cable!
Oh, and P.S. there Erica...just because YOU think you are stronger, smarter, faster, wittier? Doesn't mean you are.
Carry on.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:22 PM
And for the rest of you?
I'm a writing student at the University of Berkeley and this was one of my writing assignments.
I was able to show how people not only believe what they read on the internet but also was able to garnish an emotional response as well.
I'm getting an "A" so far.
You shouldn't believe what you read on these forums no matter how sincere the person comes across.
P.S. I'm not even a woman.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Oh ERIC PLEASE PLEASE WRITE TO US PLEASE!!!
We all need to know what we can do about the abusers in our lives!! HELP!
You are the ONLY one with any insight!
We will all be coming in here tomorrow to read what you have written.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:33 PM
(Eric) Seriously no way? I'm a student at the University of Toronto doing a study on psychology about human trust. I am showing the standard deviation of trust and advice through 3 experiments, personal interview (therapy), internet blog advice, and Q&A at the various residences at the university. I have not recieved a mark yet but I do show frequent recap analysis' bi-weekly and I believe the class is quite interested. However, I am a man named Eric, I didn't lie about that because there didn't seem to be a need to. Your research doesn't seem to be very ethical though. I believe your experiment goes against the ethical standards of your university's procedures, in fact I am positive it does. You were giving false aliases and advice to people who have been severely damaged and you are using them as guinea pigs, this is quite shocking and sociopathic. I am a little disheartened by your experiment and I hope that Berkeley looks into your ethical violations that were associated by your experiment. Also you say that you were anonymous, however on each post you said you were (justamama). If you were anonymous how come people seemed to respond to you personally by your name, that doesn't seem very anonymous to me. Anonymous means you don't know who is replying, but by stating a name and responding to that name you well, gave yourself a name rendering you no longer anonymous. I suggest your school raises its acceptance average to rid them of people with such low IQ's.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:40 PM
I was married to a sociopath for six years and I cant agree with justamamma enough that these people are extremely dangerous, I was almost killed last summer by my ex husband. Even now as he sits in jail he is sending me letters (violating protection orders) saying that I am to blame for the fact he injured me. He has completely distorted the facts and events of that day to see if he can "get off" for his crime. You know what really scares me? Sociopaths are so cunning and deceitful that they often do get away with hurting people. SP's are not like us the very core of them is evil and they lack any kind of concious.
I also have been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress due to the hell that I've went through in this dysfunctional relationship. Any person can become a victim-- it has nothing to do with wits. I compare it to walking through a forest and unknowingly picking up ticks! The only way to rid yourself is SEVER ALL TIES. If you give them any room to maneuver or come back into your life, they will exploit it to the fullest. My ex has been in and out of prison his whole life, prisons are full of sociopaths. Sociopaths know your personality better than you know it yourself. Just a work of advice when dealing with SP's cut your losses and leave. Sociopaths are often Batterers, Child Abusers, Molesters, and Rapists.......even the one's who are not deviants will leave your life ruined. My ex still to this day wants me back and could care less about the pain and suffering he's caused in my life.
The basic Sociopath profile is a lack of remorse, no sense of accountability, pathological liar, and exploits others for personal gain! I would rather be alone than get sucked in by another psycho!
All you people asking for advice from Eric onw how to fix your loved ones need to wake up there is no help for sociopaths. Look into finding ways to fix yourself and start by learning what codependent means.
- February 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM
So this is what university students do to get better grades. Exploiting people when they are opening up and are vulnerable in telling their stories.
- February 5, 2009 at 4:25 PM
(Bell) You shithead, Justamama. You're not even a woman? Hell, you're not even a person! What kind of maniacal psycho plays with the wounded and then TELLS THEM about it ?!? Feel driven to make people feel like fools, do you? The word for you, my dear chameleon, is PSYCHOPATH, which is SOCIOPATH squared. Go ahead and write your assignment exposing yourself to the university. Eric's right that your posts have been full of contradictions. And your writing isn't so hot, either ... perhaps you should change your major.
- February 5, 2009 at 5:11 PM
This is for Eric....Hi Eric, I've posted my story February, 2009, 1:27pm. I realized I never provided you with my name. It is Mary(that is my real name:))
In addition, I'd like to thank you for your advice in this matter. It is very informative..sorry for the many spelling errors, I never proof read before sending it to you!
In addition to John's character traits, he has no friends, just working colleagues, doesn't like his parents, or siblings or any relatives...whatever friends he had or short lived. Everyone has a problem, and all his ex girlfriends, he described them to be stalkers/wackos or crazy....meanwhile I met Doris and she isn't any of those traits...
Why did he have to lie about her in such a manner? She allowed him to live in her home for 3 years, for free, fed him, loved him, took care of him....yet he spoke so poorly of her behind her back....and fabricated such far fetched lies...In turn, here I thought he was a very single guy, who had a really bad relationship with Doris, and I helped him out by cooking for him, buy him nice gifts, land him a nice 6 figure job....and he hurts us like this.....I don't believe he thought he was going to lose both of us at the same time. i don't communicate with him at all.....however Doris still does, but just freaks out at him....he continues to deny he had anything to do with me....he professes his undying love to her...cries...etc....yet, she recieved his visa bill that still went to her address, and she decided to open it, and guess who joined lava life? Yep...John Joined lava life...didn't take much for him to get over Doris....
I believe he tells Doris that I still want him, because he is trying to make her jealous? Not sure whats up with that...there were many times I just wanted to tell him off...because he comes across so sure of himself and conceited....It's been 2 months exactly that I haven't had any correspondence with him what so ever, however he still mentions me to Doris, continuing to deny that he had any interest towards me, and he twisted everything around, as if it was me seeking him?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhh...I'm frustrated....anyhow...thank you for this forum...
Please reply to my inquiries at your convenience....
Once again, thank you in advance Eric....Mary
- February 5, 2009 at 7:54 PM
My Grandmother is a sociopath and its really hard for me. I always knew something was wrong about her but never knew there was a name for it.
My mom always called her scizophrenic.
She makes my life and my childrens life a living hell she purposely sets things up so my children can get hurt. She tells them I dont love them.She put my dog to sleep behind my back and told me she ran away. She always pinched, pushed, and shoved my grandfather. She tells me she loves me and then I hear her talking behind my back right after. This is just a few of the lifelong things she has done. The worst part is that people feel sorry for her because she is a senior citizen. She complains about pain and uses a cain but we always catch her without the cain and moving around just fine. She always wants us to feel sorry for her and uses us for everything. She really is strong Im sure she could beat up a man if she wanted to. She also loves talking about childrens genitals it fascinates her. Im sick of it I wish somone would commit this woman she is a danger to society but you would never believe it.
- February 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM
(Mary)...another question for Eric, I told John, that I believed he is Anti-Social personality disorder....was that a mistake, to let him know I believe that is what he is? He in turn told me, that he lies because he has low self esteem? However, he is pretty full of himself......I believe it's because he got caught from myself and Doris...so he is continuing to make us feel sorry for him, and he is trying to justify his faults....
- February 7, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Mary, you seem a sweet & trusting girl, probably the kind of woman that normal guys would pray for. But you are dangerously innocent when it comes to SP's, so here's a crash course in SP101. I want you to know that I thought about this for a couple of days, not wanting to hurt you, but I think it is the lesser of two evils considering where you may be heading with the SP in your life. You may be inadvertently playing into his hands.
SP's do not respond well to begging, as you have been begging Eric, for example. Tears only annoy them & turn them to stone. Things that would melt the heart of most men only serve to spur on the SP to more dastardly heights. This is the main thing you should know. Every soft & loving emotion you show will be used against you, while strength and lack of concern will be cause to back away. Never let him see you sweat. As hard as it is, you will only receive backlash from showing humanitarian emotions. I'm so sorry, but that's the way it is. It is difficult to accept. SP's just don't think like us. Charm is an illusion and hurting is the goal. The last thing you will see is the enchanting, mesmerizing eyes of the jaguar before being devoured. You are losing yourself in trying to figure out this guy's motives when, in fact, his motives are irrelevant and probably twisted beyond the understanding of a nice sociophile like yourself. I doubt if Eric can offer any insight into his motives, since they are known only by that individual. Concentrate instead on removing this insanity from your life. I would suggest that you band together with Doris, but Doris does not seem ready. It seems like she has not yet been able to stop loving him, in spite of everything. That is the power, that is the charisma, that is the terror of the SP.
- February 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM
(Eric) K to the person who asked me about their 16 year old son, I actually have a lot of personal experience with your situation. First off I am fairly certain your son has Post traumatic Stress Disorder and puberty has enchanced his insecurities and issues pertaining to his father. Although your husband may not have killed himself because of your son, your son will not be able to get past the fact that the father decided to leave this world and leave all the pain he held inside for his kids. 16 is an age of rebellion, most kids have small rebellious acts such as staying out past curfew, saying they hate you etc but because your son has such baggage from his past he will release this feeling in a much more noticeable and serious way. Know that he is trying to get a rise out of you, he is trying to make you concerned about what he says and does because he is cocnerned about it himself. It is true that he could possibly rid himself of empathy and concern for others but I doubt he is there yet, but if he is not helped he will get there. Make sure that you frequently talk to his counsellor to make sure he is telling him/her the truth. He may want help, but be unable to express his feelings. Clearly he has to move on from his father's death, this will be incredibly hard because he will have to re-live and experience the intimate sadness he felt and I believe he is rejecting these feelings from entering his mind. Basically I believe he is most likely acting out, the fact that he is seeing a counsellor makes me think he is aware of is problem but cannot fully express himself because it is very uncomfortable for him. I would suggest not acting as such a strict and protective parent but more as a caring parent. I am not saying let him stay out all night, I'm saying your son will either view you as a helper or a hurter, positive or negative. You want him to have a positive view of you so perhaps it is time to express some of your personal feelings about your husbands death and what you have been doing to move on. Also make sure he knows it is not his fault, simply saying it is not your fault will not make him beleive you. In unrelated news what I said about doing a report on behaviour for school was completely false, I did this to prove a point to justamama who i believe has gotten it as he/she has not responded since. Also to those asking me for help I do not know who is who or how far back you asked a question and as Bell said I do not like begging, this is not a way to ask for my help. Also please don't write a novel as a main symptom of sociopaths is boredom, although this may not seem boring to you, I do not wish to sit down and read pages about your life. Put small inserts and I will respond and then you can expand on it. thank you
- February 8, 2009 at 3:01 PM
I tend to agree with Bell. If you are involved with a sociopath and you do not have children with them nor are they your child, why in the world are you using up all your energy on them?
Mary is doesn't matter what he said to Doris about you it doesn't matter what he told you about her. WHAT matters is that he lied to both of you and will continue to do so. Not to mention the manipulation involved. Walk away and don't spend another second trying to figure him out because you won't. If he is a sociopath he will never do anything but hurt you. If he is an alcoholic/drug addict he will do the same.
Use your energy to heal yourself and forget him.
- February 8, 2009 at 3:01 PM
(Eric) P.S. I would rather answer questions pertaining to sociopaths not how to put the pieces of your life back together. I may try and help you though. The primary advice I will give to anyone here asking about someone they believe is a sociopath is to ask yourself if your happy with them in your life. If this person is constantly hurting you and making you feel bad then leave the relationship. I know this can be hard for some of you, but I believe deep down you all know this is what you have to do but come here asking for ideas that seem easier when there isn't one. Your primary concern in a relationship should be your happiness, if your unhappy you need to do something about it. Don't try and help someone who doesn't ask for your help and is constantly blaming you for their problems that is absolutely ridiculous. Some of you need to wake up, get motivated and stop letting people walk all over you. You all have the ability to stand up, be strong and go after what you desire, so do it. To those who have questions about a family member, this is a lot tougher situation as sometimes you cannot just cut them out of your life. To these people I would suggest expressing your feelings to other family members and coming up with concise plans of action to take. Sitting back and watching your family get worse and worse and watching your happiness fade is not an option. Take initiative people, sociopaths get what they want because we don't sit back and bitch about our problems, we do something and we don't stop till we get what we want. Take a lesson, just don't follow our means.
- February 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Eric thank you for your insite on my son. My son does not respond whatsoever to being grounded for the consequences of his actions. Instead of improving his grades he gets very mad and goes in shut down mode. He also does not respond well to positive reinforcement. I found it insiteful that you told me to be a caring parent as I do believe that he in his own way doesn't feel the love and support that I have tried to give him throuout his life. Being a single parent it is hard to be the bad guy/good guy and yet be the same "guy" with a troubled kid. I am wondering how to deal with a teenager and teach him that there are consequences for his actions when his way of dealing with it are anger. He wants to win and essentually he does because he refuses to do his schoolwork.
The counsellor was my idea not something he asked for. My son although I am convinced he has inner turmoil has not admited that he has a problem. He says the teachers are the problem. He passes blame alot and then gets angry when you don't believe his story.
- February 8, 2009 at 3:31 PM
I would like to add that the most dominant side to my son that seems troubling past what I would consider the regular teenage rebellion is that he has a very grandious sence of self. He feels the rules don't apply to him. He is above rules and feels a real sense of entitelement to anything he does want. He is intolerant of others opinion and told me once that the difference between himself and other teenagers is that they might THINK that they know everything but he DOES know everything. The scarey part of that comment is that he seems to actualy believe it. He can come up with a lie that is so over the top that it is an insult to your intelligence that he is even saying it and yet, I swear he believes it himself. He never feels bad for a wrong doing and never apologizes or shows any remorse. It is as if he believes that he is always in the right and justifies whatever he has done. When he gets mad at me he has a look in his eyes that is very hardened, without emotion and very detatched.
- February 8, 2009 at 5:01 PM
To Bell, Eric, and others...
Thank you for your advice! Yes, I agree Doris is still very much hurting over this revelation...her relationship was far deeper than the one I held with John.
I just have a quick question...I told John that I know he is ASPD, but he just laughted...like an almost scary laugh...but he obviously denied it....Should I worry? I've read that if you know someone is diagnosed with SP, it is advised to keep that revelation to yourself..however I read about this afterwards...after I told him I know what he is...
Should I worry?....John and I know the same people, as mentioned, I helped him land that job.....Hopefully by me not having any contact with him...he'll forget me...and just leave me be?
P.S. To Eric, Sorry for the previous lengthy postings...this is just all so overwhelming to know I was entangled with a SP, who no doubt found great enjoyment playing with my emotions...
- February 8, 2009 at 7:03 PM
An SP never forgives. As Gina Davis said in The Fly, "Be afraid ... Be very afraid".
John will continue until he has the last laugh. He must break you & Doris down to size.
Your best chance is for him to move on to his next victim.
As for Doris, there's a song by Peter, Paul & Mary from about 1970 that I can barely remember. It went something like this:
That's what you get for loving me.
Everything you had is gone, as you can see.
I'm moving on,
I won't think of you when I'm gone.
Now there you go, you're crying again.
Someday when your poor heart is on the mend,
I just might pass this way again.
That's what you get for loving me.
- February 8, 2009 at 7:47 PM
(Eric) It's true, I have never forgiven anybody and always hold it over them, always have a grudge against them. I also refuse to apologize to anyone. Why forgive someone? They chose to do whatever action has enraged you; I cannot look past the fact that they thought of this action, knew what would happen and and still chose to do it, how can you forgive someone for purposely trying to harm you?
- February 8, 2009 at 9:28 PM
I totally agree....as I mentioned I have moved on....and I will not look back....I'm just worried he'll fabricate or make up lies about me...defame me in some way to people I once worked with..(he currently works with them now)...John is a genious with the lies he can fabricate!!! It just leaves me dumbfounded how he can lie so naturally, without missing a beat....
- February 9, 2009 at 8:28 AM
Mary your best hope is to not have any contact whatsoever with him or Doris. By having contact with her it is just fueling your fire. When relationships end it is common prcatice to push each others buttons. However you can't win if he is indeed a sociopath.
He might very well make up lies about you in the work circle. You have no control over that. Maybe if you just totally drop out of both of their lives he will focus on something else maybe not but it is your best hope.
- February 9, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Oh my God! I need you! Until yesterday, I had no clue what a sociopath was. Today, I know it is my hustand! I will have to divorce him! After 17 yrs., it all makes sense. I see who he is, for real. He is a perfect picture of a sociopath. I have tried so hard to make him love me. I cringe to think we haven't had sex in 6 yrs. Now I know why. He also is an alcoholic.
We have retired and have our life set!! Now, I have to start over. I am so scared.
- February 10, 2009 at 6:01 AM
As much as the future and starting over can be a fearful thing. If you are married to a sociopath and you believe him to be one, the best thing you can do for yourself is leave. He should be feared over and above starting over. A sociopath doesn't feel love. But they do feel anger and so be very careful. Don't do anything rash. Think carefully about where you will go and how you can leave without creating more problems for yourself. Be good to yourself and build yourself back up again.
The worst part of a sociopaths control over your life is how they make you feel about yourself.
- February 10, 2009 at 7:39 AM
Yet another question about women for Eric. Everyone wants to find a "soul mate", a person who is in sync. So, would your soul mate be a fellow sociopath? Would you consider it fun to get together with a female SP?
- February 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM
(Eric) First off, I don't believe in soul mates, I believe there is a degree of compatability and if the relationship develops people may gain this infatuation we call love. I do not want a soul mate that is a sociopath, that would be torture. Sociopaths have an endless need to win, it would be a constant battle over winning and having the upper hand which would ultimately go nowhere. Also I don't think a sociopath will ever be in a relationship with another sociopath because neither one wants to make an effort for the other and so there is no taking to receive and certainly no giving. This couple would quickly realize they cannot taint and manipulate the others feelings because they don't have any and the relationship would end abrubtly. I would consider it fun to get together with a female sociopath because I know I could break her, it would be an entertaining and amusing challenge, an ego inflation if you will. I truly believe that there is no person that can break me down or manipulate me, I can see through everything and never display my true self and therefore can never be personally attacked. It would be fun for me for the simple reason that I would enjoy showing her how pathetic and less intelligent she is when in comparison to me. However, when I am in a relationship I am quite the gentleman, it is the sudden break up and put downs where my true nature is revealed.
"We stand before the light and our true nature is revealed, self revelation is anhilation of self." This quote truly describes the life of a sociopath. When we come to the realization of what we are and what we are capable of, our past and confusion disappears and we are left with the truth, we can do whatever we want, we have no restrictions.
- February 10, 2009 at 4:36 PM
(Bell) Holy shit!
- February 10, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Eric I would like to know what your family dynamics were when you grew up. Especially during puberty/teenage years. Was there a time when you believe that you could have recieved help when you were young that might have changed things? I guess I am still wanting to understand if you think your a sociopath because you were born that way and destined to be one? OR if circumstances in your life contributed? Or genetically?
Did you ever feel any love or affection for your mother or family members? Do you feel your parents loved you?
I don't understand how someone doesn't have the ability to feel good feelings like love and affection. And yet be able to feel such intense anger.
And I guess what I really don't understand is why you wouldn't WANT to be able to feel love or affection for anyone?
Is it that you were born without these normal feelings. Or did something in life "condition" you to not feel these feelings?
- February 11, 2009 at 7:50 AM
ERIC....my long term sp boyfriend has been very verbally and emotionally abusive. when i didnt fall for his bullshit manipulation anymore and decided to kick him out... he physically attacked me and threatened my life. since then, there is absolutely NO remorse. he has threatened suicide to me and his friends and plays the victim role perfectly. he has contacted me once every three weeks for the past 5 months, leaving verbally abusive voice messages. i have not picked up the phone once, and really am trying to move on. i would say, that i was beaten down to the point of any emotional breakdown 5 months ago. wouldn't that mean he WON? do i actually have to fear for my life? will he ever go away?
- February 11, 2009 at 11:59 AM
- Adam Khan said...
Anonymous, I urge you to change your phone number. And if you must, move to a new place. Do not wait for him to go away. Take control of your own life and make happen what you want to happen. You want him out of your life? You cannot convince him or persuade him. YOU must make sure he is out of your life, and that he can't find you.
It is entirely possible that if you continue to leave his calls unanswered he will grow tired of it and leave you alone. But he may not, and if it tortures you, YOU can do something about it. Restraining orders are almost worthless, although might be a good idea for legal reasons. But you can take steps so you will not have to be harassed with his phone calls. You can block his number. You can change your number. You can move. Many others here have lots of experience. Does anyone else have a suggestion on how she can protect herself?
I know your question was to Eric, but I had to put in my two cents also. Take steps yourself. Don't leave yourself in a hopeless or helpless position where you are waiting for him to do something or hoping he will do something. YOU do something.
- February 11, 2009 at 1:26 PM
To 6:09 PM: I won't preempt Eric. His view will undoubtedly be different from mine.
I've done a lot of reading on the net and the consensus is that sociopaths are conceived & born that way, with environmental factors determining their direction and goals.
Sociopathy has been likened to color blindness in that SP's miss out on feeling the full range of emotions. A person who is born color-blind never knows what he is missing. (And nobody could ever imagine a new color, one they've never seen before. Yet they exist in nature.) Non-SP's can hardly imagine what it's like to have no empathy; conversely, SP's can only know empathy intellectually.
SP's are stunted emotionally. They cannot force themselves to develop missing emotions any more than a retarded person can expand their intelligence. (There's only so much to work with, if you catch my drift.)
Sociophiles spend the majority of their time and energy thinking about other people. Take that away, and you are left with an empty, shallow existence of self-absorption.
- February 11, 2009 at 3:18 PM
I am newer to this site and therefore have been reading my way back to the older postings.
I originally posted about my 16 year old son whom seems to have some major issues that have been a concern for about the last year or so. I believe that from what I can see from reading backwards that the reason many seem to ask Erics advice is because we think that he can give us some "inside" insite because he admits to being a sociopath
himself. He seems very intelligent and other than when provoked by a few, seems to give us some of the answers that we seek. It's not as if you have several therapist reading this blog giving out advice....And to be perfectly honest there were times in my past when seeking therapy after the suicide of my husband where I felt although in the company of a therapist I wasn't really getting through to him where I was coming from. He had never "walked in my shoes". I would suppose that is why people seek support groups or blogs such as this one.
I feel alot of urgency right now. I guess I feel after my quest for information on personality disorders, sociopaths, post tramatic stress etc that my son is at the age where possibly he could be helped and yet I am not so sure? There seems to be alot of overlapping of the disorders themselves and because he hasn't really been evaluated by his councellor I don't know how to deal with him.
Justamomma had been the first to reply to my posting and I was to later find out she was not a "momma" at all. Is there anyone out there who can relate with a teenager who is dealing with some of the same issues?
- February 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM
(Eric) Ughh, I wrote out a response to the questions about my family but I hit backspace and it went back a page. I will answer the question at another time.
- February 11, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Met this man, we were both married with kids. We began an affair that was extremely fast and intimate and had explosive chemistry. Months into the affair he tells me he's in love with another woman. I about fell over. She lived in a different state and I assumed I could just keep him captivated and could ignore that he said that. We carried on for months, guilt weighing heavily on me. He was a professor at a christian college and I would hear from some people that knew him that he was a little "off" and made comments about the young girls in his classes that weren't appropriate. I asked him whether or not he had ever made a pass at any of them and he, of course, said no. Sex was amazing with him---the feeling it gave me. He couldn't keep it up long (12 years older than me) so it went fast, but he would make me feel as if I was the only person in the entire world. Well, until he told me he was in love with someone else. Mind you, he was married, having an affair with me and "in love" with another woman. Things went down....he left me "for my own good"...thinking he didn't want to destroy me or my family. I was devastated and ravaged with pain for years after his exit. Well, 8 years later, he calls me out of the blue. I felt all the blood drain from my head and my hands when I heard his voice. He called to "see how I was doing" and to let me know that he was "still in love with me and wanted to say 'I love you' because he never said it to me 8 years ago". Knocked me off my feet. I went through counseling and was put on anti-depressants, thought I had finally gotten over the entire thing (in my mind though, I had never had a day go by that I didn't think of him). He asked me to meet him and I said I couldn't. Chatted for a little while and after we hung up I kind of did a "victory" dance...thinking to myself that I won---that I didn't succumb to him on a whim after all these years! Of course, I messaged him and asked why he would feel the need to do that after all this time, which led to chats and calls and internet sex. Yeah, I liked the attention and the fact that he hadn't forgotten about me so I was there in it with him again. He lives 400 miles away, so I haven't seen him. Disturbing thing is...after an intimate conversation he decides to let me know that he is seeing a former student of his (he's a college professor and is 52) that is 27 and he had a threesome with her and one of her friends. He said she comes to visit him every few weeks and they are intimate. What the hell is he thinking?? Why would this guy bother calling me when he's getting it from some young slut?? The description of sociopath fits him perfectly. He runs hot and cold, is on and off...wants to see me, then says we should just say goodbye...he's all over the board. I am part of his madness. I am going crazy. I need to exit and find it difficult.
- February 12, 2009 at 10:49 AM
(Eric) You are what is wrong with this world, not sociopaths. Your married with kids so smarten up, if you upheld your wedding vows this would never have happened. You wonder why this happens to you, well its because you let it happen to yourself. If you had just been a good mother and wife you would be living a happier life without drugs. Also he doesn't sound like a sociopath, he sounds like an old man that has an intense fetish for younger women. You disgust me, you deserve what you got. Stop thinking about yourself, think about how your husband feels and how your kids would feel if they knew this. Your a terrible role model for your kids and I hope your husband is cheating on you. And why are you calling the other girls sluts, what the fuck do you think you are, at least they are getting a better grade out of it. If the pain is too much, perhaps you should leave this world altogether so that we can be free of one more depressed, selfish whore.
- February 12, 2009 at 11:46 AM
You're right. Thanks.
- February 12, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Bell thanks for your answer to my question. Likening it to being color blind put a perspective on it that I hadn't thought about.
I would still like to know about family dynamics during the teenage years on what family members might do or maybe more importantly NOT do. It seems that much of the research that I have read even the researches themselves debate on much of what is said. So it is hard to know what is true or not true.
- February 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Lucky, If you still read these comments after all the Justamama not a Mama drama and Ask Eric comments, Thanks for your kind words and for sharing in the blessing of my new home. Join me on lovefraud. I think you will like the advice and the caring community. I post as always as myself. I'm really named Joy. I'm really a pysch nurse, and I was really married to an SP. I post under the article, How do we heal? Part 3.
- February 12, 2009 at 6:14 PM
(Eric) Around puberty and my early teenage years my relationship with my family had become incredibly strained. I lived in a highly critical family where my parents seeked out my faults for pleasure and seemed to enjoy finding new things to get me in trouble for. My brother and I fought every day, literally every day we got into a fist fight. One day I stumbled upon my brother after he attempted suicide and he had blamed me in a pathetic suicide note and was taken to the hospital for a few months. From this time on I lived very independently and very rarely spoke to my father but frequently got into verbal fights with about how he wants to kill me, kick me out, not pay for my education and burning me alive if his marriage collapsed. I found this amusing and constantly taunted him about pursuing these things so that I could laugh at him in jail. The next few years everything was pretty much the same, I never asked for help with anything, and nobody ever offered. I did everything for myself, when I wanted and ignored the rest of my family. I do not believe I could have changed, it was me who changed everyone else. I was taken to counselling twice at ages 5-6 and 8-9 about violence with my brother and constant disrepect to my parents. Counselling did nothing because I found it to be an opportunity to prove how tough and intelligent I was for my age. I do not I could have been changed because I had never grown any type of respect for anyone, this is why sociopaths have constant problems with authority, especially the police. Good questions, Nature vs. Nurture is the ultimate question, unfortunately I cannot give you a definite answer. It could possibly be a little bit of both. Personally I believe that I was born like this and my childhood just increased my sociopathic tendencies and anger. On the plus side it made me invincible to all types of abuse, death threats, fights, and hate were something I dealt with everyday and so, when these happen in the real world I don't blink an eye. I often create these situations to see how others react and to show the degree of composure I can keep at all times. I have never felt affection or "love" towards my parents, I always saw them as people I could benefit from. I wasn't always indifferent to them, when I wanted something I would lay down the charm and fake emotions to get what I wanted. At young age, about 10 I realized how severe my lack of empathy and care for others was. When my parents would be late coming home, I often found myself wondering if they had been in an accident and died. I would then start to fantasize about their death and how I could benefit from it i.e. inheritance, time off school etc. I believe that my mother "loved" me and still does but I do not believe that my father does. He is told me several times that he doesn't and that he regrets having me. I don't know why I cannot feel "love" and affection but have so much hate and anger, it is as if my hate made up for the lack of "love" I have. I don't want to have affection and love because I believe it would tie me down, I don't like having obligations and with relationships there are numerous times you are somewhat obliged to be with them. Without this emotion I am able to go through life doing whatever I want, I have no restrictions, no conscience and nothing that can stop me from getting exactly what I want. I don't know if it is better to live with or without affection because I have only experienced my side. All I know that I am very content with who I am, and I would never choose to be someone else or suddenly have all these emotions "normal" people have. I believe that I do benefit from the lack of empathy because I have much more time to plan and analyze and ultimately have a better understanding of humans as a whole. Finally, yes, I do believe I was born this way, since I was young I've always known that my thoughts and beliefs differed greatly from others.
- February 13, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Hello everyone. I have read many posts and am a complete mess. I don't even know where to begin other than to say I am in love with a person that may display these "sociopathic tendencies"...He has 3 kids by 3 different moms, yet has been able to weasel back in my life as well as any other woman's life that he has wanted for as long as I have known him.He has no job, owes me 20,000 dollars child support, plays in a band, and when he leaves us doesn't even call his 10 year old son. This time I took him from prison in August and he has left me for a few days every few months. He just left us again 6 days ago. My son is devastated and he hasn't even called him. He tells everyone he knows that my son didn't like him anyways, so what did it matter if he stayed? He tells everyone I am a psycho..yet I found out that he had cheated on me, after telling me that he would never cheat on me again. He has stolen things from me, used me, and dumped me again...yet as stupid as it sounds..I KNOW that he could find a way back into my heart again. I miss him so much, yet I know anything he did for me..he did because he wanted something. He used to start kissing my ass in the morning the days he ran out of pain pills so I would leave him money before I went to work and I KNEW IT!! I would accuse him of using me and he would become extremely angry. He even fooled our therapist! She thought I had the trust and insecurity issues..I watched him fool the courts, the jails, the women, the therapist.the hospitals..his grandparents...and me. Yet I am still a mess. Thank you for listening and any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't even know where to begin.
- February 14, 2009 at 7:57 AM
I think you already know what you need to do. You have pretty much said it all.
What do you miss exactly? The fact that he is stealing money from you? Or the cheating? The manipulation? The lies?
Make your self a pro/con list as see if there is ANYTHING that you might list on the pro side. BE HONEST. If he was nice to you one day but he wanted something in return that does NOT count.
And if that doesn't help to convince you, then do what you really need to do anyways. Think of your son before you think of yourself. Put him in the priority position in your life. Do you want him to grow up not respecting you? Do you want him to be just like his father when he relates to women when he is older. He will pick up on every negative behaviour if he hasn't already.
And finally it is always easier to see how he has conned the therapist, courts, jails and other women etc. Even though you know intelectually he has done the same to you your feelings tend to distort that.
Just try and see that hurt your son. As a mother you wouldn't let a complete stranger hurt your son. Don't let his father do this to him either.
Change your phone number, put a bolt on the door. Don't talk to him. If you talk to him he will sweet talk you again. Chances are if he is leaving all the time he has other women you are not even aware of.
If you think he is dangerous do not confront him. Just ease out...No contact.
Do not feel sorry for him. He feels nothing for his victims.
- February 14, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Wow, Thank you Eric for being so candid in your explanation of your family dynamics.
My emotional response was pretty extreme. I cried. I have never met you or your family. However I felt really saddened by the disfunction.
I also grew up in a disfunctional home. My father was an alcoholic. I often wonder if there are any people out there who grew up in a Beaver Cleaver household?
I think as parents most of us try to raise our kids "better" than we felt we had been raised. At least that is the intention. But in turn we might not make the same mistakes our parents made but different ones.
My fears are growing with my son. He has not yet been diagnosed. I would have to be in complete denial as a parent to not see that he has alot more problems than what can be seen on the surface.
When someone you love commits suicide it can leave lots of complications for those left behind. I was devistated when my husband died. He was the love of my life. Suicide complicates the grieving process tremendously.
It is like a paradox. The "WHY" they did it question consumes your waking hours and keeps you from sleep at night.
Does it take courage to put a gun into your mouth and pull the trigger or is it being a coward? Are they making a choice to die or do they believe they have run out if choices to live? Is suicide really "silent" or does it speak volumes? What could I have done to make a difference? And the hardest of all.....Did I do something to possibly contribute?
When I read your story of your brothers attempt it chilled me to the bone. It said alot about how a sociopath can't feel emotion.
It also put into perspective my own feelings I am feeling right now about my son. I am terrified. I feel that everything, all my lifes experiences so far are maybe a drop in the bucket compared to what is coming. When you said that you didn't believe there was a time in your childhood that you could have recieved help to turn things around....
That was something I didn't really want to hear.
It is still to soon to tell what my sons prognosis will be.
- February 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM
(Bell) It would be very helpful if people would assign themselves a handle for responses. Could you folks please give some kind of a name?
To 12:55 PM: The hold SP's have over us is that we tend to place our hearts above our heads. They are counting on that and seeing us as stupid because of it. You have a decision to make. You must know that. If you decide to stay with the man you love, you will need a kind of strength he can never recognize or appreciate or give you credit for. Abandon the whole idea of loving him out of it. You will have to accept a life of abuse and abandonment punctuated by moments of bliss which keep you holding on.
Your main concern MUST be your son. Unfortunately, you didn't mention his age, so I dunno if he's old enough to understand about his Dad. You will need to have a serious talk with your son as soon as he is old enough to understand. (Count yourself lucky that your son does not have his father's condition and keep it that way!)
My own thought, and this is ridiculous even to me, is that, if you really, really, really can't give him up, at least be rid of him until your son is in college or married so you only hurt yourself.
To 7:57 AM: Right on.
To 10:19 AM above: These are questions with which you can really torture yourself. The answers to your paradox can never be known. You don't deserve to be your own tormentor. Since he was "the love of your life", I'd wager that you prevented him from checking out sooner than he did. Please give yourself a break with these soul-crushing questions.
- February 14, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Thank you Bell. I gave myself a handle.
The suicide was a long enough ago that I have stopped torturing myself with those questions. I have come to the other side and made peace with the suicide the best I can. Those questions can really only be answered by the person who can't possibly answer them. And as time goes on you have to come to your own conclusions to the best of your ability.
Unfortunatley for me I am a thinker by nature. I have always been that way. And that sometimes means that I can be my own worst enemy. My therapist(the one I saw after the suicide) used to say that I had the best instincts of anyone she had ever encountered. However those words haunt me now all these years later....
I did not instinctively know that my husband was going to take his own life. As well as I "felt" I knew him. I didn't see that coming. That completely blind sided me. However he was a recovering alcoholic and I did know that he was going to drink again....And he did, and he killed himself.
The nagging feelings that made me start my quest for information leading to what my sons problems might be are somewhat two fold. He had started to see a counscellor awile back. I am a reasonable person and realize that therapy takes time. However sometimes I just want to shake this guy (the counscellor). I feel an urgency in this situation. I feel like my son has suppressed alot of this emotional stuff. He is 16 years old and he is not going to go in and see his counscellor and just spill his guts one day.
The more information I find the worse I feel. Its like a double edged sword. There is NOT alot of good news when you are researching these personality disorders. Knowledge is NOT always power.
Many of the feelings (I feel now) the urgency esecially take me back to when I felt that urgency before and knew that my husband was going to drink again. Knowing that something awful is going to happen and yet not being able to do anything about it.
I feel much the same about my son. What I see in him indicates to me that he has alot of problems. All the meetings that we have had at school and the sessions he has had with the counscellor (although all seemingly steps in the right direction) there seems that no progress is being made.
I think that the decisions I make now are very important ones. That weighs heavy on me. Do I get him another counscellor and start over? Be patient and see what unfolds? Hard to know...
- February 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM
(Eric) HIM, I don't really know what to tell you about the tragedy you experienced, although I have gone through similar scenarios it has not had the same effect on me. All I can tell you is that he obviously had demons pulling at his insides everyday, he may have thought this was best for his family or he could have just been escaping reality, I don't know. Personally I over think everything and live a life of paranoia, and this is not something you want to pursue. Do not look for the answers about his death, look for the joy you had while he was alive. I'm sure he did not want to pass his pain onto you, so out of respect for him remember him as he was when you were both happy, hold onto those memories and it'll get you through each day. I have somewhat of an expertise in your other situation regarding your son though. In my opinion I think he most likely has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and has learned that by shutting off all his emotions he can live without stress and pain. Unfortuantely, the effect is quite the opposite; all his emotions and feelings will be bottled up and he will often release unimaginable insults, threats, abuse, and pain on anyone he can hurt. I do not believe he has Anti-social personality disorder simply because he has experienced a tragedy at young age. You should ask yourself if he displayed these sociopathic tendencies as a child, before your loss. Also, in my opinion I would get him help and not be patient and see what happens. If he wants help and opens up then it would contradict him being a sociopath, look to see if he is enjoying therapy and finding it amusing and playing it like a game. I know for me, I never went in or left upset, I always came out with more knowledge and information I could use in every day life. Therapy for me, was completely a game, make sure he is not doing this as it would be better for him to just sit at home. Do not start labelling your son as a sociopath becuase 1) I do not think he is a sociopath and 2) people become what you label them, if you constantly tell someone they are bad, they will begin to do bad things becuase they think that's who they are, and its what you expect. Let's be serious here, nobody lives that Beaver Cleaver lifestyle, every family has issues and every person has issues. I have a very negative, bleak view of human life that I believe is true to each person. Do not seek this route, instead seek the good in people before you criticize their negativities. The world is full of pain and constant suffering but also joy and happiness, your eyes will see whatever you tell your mind to believe.
- February 15, 2009 at 6:28 PM
- Unknown said...
I think your article is an extremely manipulated bias. Who are you to say that every sociopath, is out to manipulate, hurt, cheat, and steal? I myself, am I very giving and selfless person, and I am also not chained by the self fabrication of self-gratification. Being without emotion, does not mean with out rational thoughts and motives. You should be worried about the people that can feel, and still hurt other because they like that type of negative produce. To bunch sociopaths into one group, of evil maniacal is something that of Hitler. There are not enough studies to provide any proof to your obvious unintelligent, and veiled bias. Wake up.
- February 15, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Well then Steven tell us more. If your saying that you are in fact a sociopath but your motives are not to hurt and manipulate others than that is not what many of us have experienced in our relationships with a sociopath. When a person doesn't feel emotions for others, or have a coscience, it stands to reason that they would hurt people without remorse. They don't feel remorse.
Are you a sociopath or a wanna be?
Yes, people with feelings do also hurt other people. And there is no excuse for that. The difference is that they generally do feel remorse. This blog isn't about that. Its about sociopaths.
- February 16, 2009 at 9:58 AM
(Bell) From what you say about yourself, Stephan, you are NOT sociopathic. SP's are not without emotion. If you are able to be giving and selfless, yet lack emotion, it sounds more like you're wounded. One web site has SP's classified into 4 categories -- Common (without conscience), antisocial (without conscience and unable to give or receive love), criminal, and sadistic. Your impressions are flawed. If you ever meet a bonafide SP, heaven help you, you'll know whereof we speak!
- February 16, 2009 at 11:04 AM
(Eric) Stephan we are out to manipulate, hurt, steal and cheat... These are four basic things that I do every day and will continue to do. I would never and have never done a selfless act. I am in no way giving, I take from people everything and leave them with nothing. Why waste time giving, when I could be taking? Bell I am interested in your four categories, where did you see this, I would like to read up on this. And yeah Stephan, leave your insecurites at home because your a naive insecure target to sociopaths.
- February 16, 2009 at 7:14 PM
(HIM) Have been asking myself many of the questions that you presented about my son. My son was really just a toddler when his dad died so I would say no, he did not have these tendancys before this happened.
Today my son would would say that he doesn't remember his father.
Right after the suicide and for at least a year after, he would "chat" about what he experienced in a childlike manner. Over and over again. Such as "mommy daddy had a "REAL" gun". Or he would question...."Mommy, I never even saw the bad guys that came." (He believed as a child that there must have been "bad guys" involved because his father had a gun and was shot by a gun.) And to my horror he also told me how he over and over tried to get the gun. He wanted to "see" it better and touch it. Thank God the gun was locked between his fathers legs and he was unable to pry it out. He also said stuff like daddy was "very sick" because he told his daddy he was hungry and he wouldn't get up and get him something to eat.... During these child like "conversasions" he had with me he was usually very matter of fact (in a childlike way) and more or less just reliving what he had been through.
Also during this same time occasionally (not often) he would have what I can only describe as fits of "rage". And throw himself on the floor, in a full fledged tantrum, screaming and crying, stiffing his body, and just about everything but foaming at the mouth. He had NEVER done anything like this before. These would come out of nowhere not when he was talking about what happened etc. Just out of the clear blue...These fits were very disturbing. I was told that this was an age appropriate way of dealing with the major frustration he must have felt while being alone in the house for all those hours, with his dead father and no one to care for his needs. This troubled me deeply but I was told that they would cease and they did. I was told that he was of an age that he wasn't able to comprehend suicide, and really wasn't able to fully comprehend death for that matter. He was at an age where he expected someone to feed him when he was hungry, put him for a nap when he was tired, play with him when he wanted to be amused etc. And he didn't get that from his father what might seem like eternity for that entire day.
This is what the therapist back then told me. As he got older and as he asked questions he was given more age appropiate information. Such as there were no bad guys and at some point he was told that his dad took his own life.
As a child growing up I don't see some of the things you described in your childhood. He wasn't a habitual liar, (I see that in him now). He was a challenging & somewhat difficult kid to raise but not what I would call MAJOR issues. Argued alot.....Wanted to always be right. Stubborn. thise kinds of things. He seemed to show "feelings". A few years ago in middle school at a baseball game he messed up and I saw his eyes well up with tears.... And he was mad at himself. That kind of thing.
However, what concerns me now is what I see going on with him for the last year and a half or so. Complete turn around. Its as if he is a different person.
He told me recently when I asked him if he knew why he was going to councelling? He said he supposed it was to try and improve mine and his relationship. And then he also said that the therapist was going to say whatever I wanted him to say because I was the one that paid the bill.
- February 17, 2009 at 6:10 AM
(HIM) Just to clarify when he said the therapist was "going to say what I wanted him to say"....What he meant by that was the counscellor would maybe tell my son should apply himself at school, or not agree with him that he should quit school. In other words the counscellor would be on my side and not his. That is so far how he sees his sessions from what he has said.
I have never mentioned to my son that I think something is "wrong" with him or that he has a personality disorder.
- February 17, 2009 at 8:44 AM
My youngest sibling is a sociopath. Combine that with alcohol and drug addictions and you get an explosive situation. Pair that person with a parent who is co-dependent, enables, and refuses to say "no" despite the toll on the rest of the family, it's a deadly combination. From an early age (4) I could witness my sibling do something and they would "convince" me I had not seen what I knew I saw. Never held accountable for their own behavior, never stood on their own 2 feet, and never told no, the child has destroyed our family (generationally). The ONLY way to deal with a sociopath (besides getting them out of your life,) [good advice, which I've done. Thanks.] is to convince them it is in their OWN best interest to "go along with the program." This individual is extremely bright, manipulative, has a short fuse, cunning, conniving, convincing and will NOT give up until their desired result is achieved~no matter the consequences to others. Therfore, the rest of the family feels confused and hurt because other's needs are always placed at the end of the line beneath the sociopath's (wants). Sociopath's behaviors often kick into overdrive during family events and social occacions. Everyone is always hoping, "this time it will be different" and it never is. Escaping from a courtroom while in shackles, convincing a teller to cash a check on an account that has been closed for years, and stealing the wedding ring off the hand of a deceased mother are things that would make most folks quiver. In fact, most people probably wouldn't believe much of what I share (and I only know a tip of the iceberg). I married and moved thousands of miles away when this child was only 7. At 15 he was incarcared for 6 years and has been in and out constantly for the last 30. Yet, this individual could convince his parents to pay for lawyers, cars, mobile homes, owes them thousands of dollars which other family members went lacking. People who do not know the history try to "save" this person and tell me the person "doesn't seem to understand." My response is, "The only thing not understood is the word 'NO.'" There's more I can't share. I just hope one day he'll be in a "safe place" so the rest of the (surviving) family can remain safe. I have no guilt over severing my relationship with this sibling. I also tried to help for years, prayed, did whatever I could. Eventually, I realized I could not change this person's behavior. Once I said, "NO" I never went back and they basically quit asking; although they continued to steal from me and lie and decieve me. They often claim, "they're going to do better, they're going to AA, they're going to church." (yadda yadda), whatever they need to say to get what they want.
- February 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM
MY SON is a sociopath. He wrote hateful emails to people AS ME,and stole money from me twice.
He wants to,and tried to ruin my relationships. He will be 17 in AUG. He also has the FLAT EYES look. If I was old and in a nursing home,he would push me out into the rain and leave me to get pnemonia. Isn't it just GREAT?
I AM scared of what he could do to me,and others. His mom is one to,and of course I DID NOT KNOW THIS when I married her. She then divorced me,and then THE UN-WARRANTED PUNISHMENT BEGAN! SHE WANTED the DIVORCE,NOT ME. I JUST LOVE HOW THEY are "PUNISH-ERS" and "TARGET-ERS". He has had opportunity to apologize-I feel-and WON'T. Cause he is NOT NORMAL and CAN NOT BE FIXED.
THEY ARE EVIL. I have always been a good father to him to. I DO believe in the LORD,and I realize that I WILL STAND BEFORE GOD WHEN I PASS AWAY,and I run my life accordingly.
Sincerely,MR. TIRED OF THE PUNISHMENT
- February 19, 2009 at 12:09 AM
(HIM) I would be interested to know from both the above entrys from the anonymous-sibling and Mr Tired of The Punishment of some of the early signs that you saw in your son/siblings temperment and personalities that determined that they were a sociopath.....I am still struggling with my son and his issues and still not sure where he fits in.
I am told that a person under the age of 18 should not be labeled or even tested as a sociopath.
Was either your sibling or son actually tested or just labeled as such. AND if you know this information what testing is actually done to determine this.
My son might be Post Tramatic Disorder, however what continues to trouble me is his personality traits....And lack of remorse over making bad coices. The fact that he seems to think he is "above" punishment or consequences and his lying issues. Everything seems to be spiralling downward on a daily basis.
- February 19, 2009 at 5:55 AM
god what childish crap...
all of you are wandering about with your problems. Im desperately looking for company.. why? because here I am, and i dont feel anything, I love my family because I should. I am loyal to my friends
- February 19, 2009 at 8:53 AM
I got to this site because im trying to find an actual sociopath to talk to, and all I get are fake lil women types.
- February 19, 2009 at 8:54 AM
dont you get how silly it is to pretend to be a sociopath? your posts are dripping with emotion.
I mean maybe you should hang it all up and go goth or something.
being a sociopath isn't a fad, its not cool. it sucks arse
its lonely
it means you have to lie to your family every day
- February 19, 2009 at 8:56 AM
Mmmmmm. This site isn't just for sociopaths. It is also for those of us who love them. Or have loved them in the past. Many of us are trying to heal from our experience with them. And many more come here for information because we are still not sure what hit us.
You can pretty much assume that the post that you read that are dripping from emotion are from those of us that do feel emotion.
And trust me. Those of us that feel emotion don't try and be like the sociopath. We do not mimic to have feelings we really FEEL them so we don't have to mimic that. We don't destroy someone elses life for the fun of it. Because the difference is we can feel someone elses pain as well as our own. It just goes with the territory of actually having a conscience. When we do make bad choices or hurt someone we generally feel what they call the G word. That would be guilt. Or maybe the R word. that would be remorse. And we can even say I'm sorry and actually mean it.
Whoever told you we the NON sociopaths of the world think being a sociopath is cool or the latest fad has lost his or her marbles.
- February 19, 2009 at 2:03 PM
(Eric) Uhh, I would not refer to myself as being a lil woman type... While I do understand some of what you are talking about, I do not understand your loyalty, your affection and your belief that being a sociopath is worse than being non-scoiopathic. You seem jealous and envious of those who feel emotion but you also say you love your parents-love is an emotion, referred to as the most powerful emotion. I also haven't seen anyone here pretending to be a sociopath, with the possible exception being you. Explain why you think your a sociopath because I don't think you are. You seem very soft and girly as if you are reflecting your true self "lil woman type" into your response as a deflection. You seem to be pouring out emotion and pain, we do not do that. Look back in my responses and check how many times I expressed my pain and suffering. Little boy, how was your childhood... really? I expected it to be full of love, not criticism and abandonment... I can read you quite easily little boy. You are confusing yourself and inflicting this pain upon yourself, your not lying to everyone else your lying to yourself. You picked a bad personality disorder to mask yourself with. Your correct though, being a sociopath sucks. I hate having power over everyone and always getting what I want, I hate how i can manipulate any situation and elude consequences, I hate having complete control over my emotions, I hate having control over other peoples emotions and I hate being able to create any persona. Your right living as a sociopath is torture... if your not really one.
- February 19, 2009 at 9:32 PM
(HIM)I have some questions for Eric again if still willing to answer.
I don't believe I have ever felt so helpless or vulnerable in my entire life. I started to worry about the troubling personality traits that I saw in my son about a year ago.(when he was almost 15)But they seemed to be presented to me somewhat slowly. He didn't just wake up one day and seem like a different person. First I saw him having these very grandious ideas about what he was going to accomplish in life. But without the discipline, motivation or even a realistic plan to even begin to make it happen....It seems like he is almost delusional about this and really BELIEVES that just wanting it will make it happen. Then I saw the grandious sense of self, where he just didn't think the "rules" in life seem to apply to him, although they certainly do apply to everyone else.(in his opinion) Then alot of lying. Way out there lies that he actually seems to belive himself. and expects me to believe as well. Now he seems to have forgotten how to tell the truth. Passing blame, anger, lack of respect, MANIPULATION. This is something that he is getting so very good at. He can be a very obvious manipulator but also very subtle. He doesn't show any affection, or compassion or empathy and although I have mentioned these things before I am afraid that everything seems to be escalating very quickly....
I feel like things have escalated so quickly that I am living with a stranger. Before everything was pretty much directed at me. I was the person in his life that he lashed out at, disrespected lied to, and manipulated. now I see him manipulating his older brother (does not live at home his brother is 25), he is now disrespecting his teachers instead of just getting the bad grades. He has pushed this all up another level.
Everything I saw in him before has escalated so quickly that it is almost hard to know what to do next. The eyes that I described that are cold and empty, and distant.....I see that more often than I care to admit. It is as if his entire demeanor changes. When he has the "look" he appears almost in a trance-state like state. I swear his skin takes on almost a pasty white very pale look or maybe that is because his eyes are so cold and dark and empty. It is chilling. and when I see him like this I am terrified. Not only for him, because I don't know who he is anymore, I swear it is like he is a complete stranger to me during these moments. But to be honest I am also terrified for myself because I don't feel like I know what he is capeable of. These episodes last for just minutes but it is as if he transforms himself into this unrecognizeable person that doesn't in any way resemble a 16 yr old boy. This so far has only happened when we are having a discussion about school or a lie he has told me or whatever, he gets very angry it esculates into an argument and this is how the argument ends. When he has that look or goes into this "state" he is done. He doesn't talk anymore or yell or scream. Its like he is there in body only but mentally he has checked out. He is in another world.
Awile before this happened yesterday he told me flat out that he didn't love me. Not the usual teenager I am angry at you....I HATE you....And run up to their room and slam the door kind of thing, but a very methodical, very matter of fact...I don't love you. He didn't yell it in an argument, he didn't scream it, he just said it. As if it was something he has known for awile and it was time to "put it out there".
Was it manipulation of sorts, is it how he actually feels, is it anger? I don't know.
I do know that something between both of us has changed. Those words and they way he put them out there ripped my heart out. But I didn't shed a tear....I wanted to, they were there, right on the surface, but I was AFRAID to. It is almost as if these past few weeks he has been "conditioning" me for this particular moment in time. Part of that subtle manipulation that has been happening the past few weeks that I can't seem to put into words but I KNOW is happening. And as hard as it was to hear those words, it was almost as if I saw it coming....
God I am sorry....I know you don't appreciate long winded, yadda, yadda, he said she said. But things these are happening so fast recently and I almost feel like much of it is sur-real. He saw his counscellor this week and seems worse than when he hadn't seen him for several weeks.
- February 20, 2009 at 11:20 AM
- Adam Khan said...
A new study shows that psychopaths (another word for sociopaths) are two and a half times more likely to be released from prison than ordinary criminals, even though the psychopaths are more likely to commit another crime.
Why? Because they are good at fooling people.
Read a BBC article about this.
Read a BPS article about it.
- February 20, 2009 at 12:55 PM
- janet said...
How do I start. My son is 26 Years old - changed dramatically when he turned around 16. He lies compulsively and believes his lies. He cannot keep a job nor friends.
The current situation is this - I have not spoken to him for approx 2-3 months due to when he had his baby son Xander in late October - i went to visit and found out that he is doing speed, not paying rent has a guy living in the house who sells drugs and on top of this smokes in the house with the little baby. Consequently I told him we argued blah blah blah - mind you this has been the usual scenario for 10 years - my husband and I have pulled him out so many times and then found out about the lies etc - anyway I could go on and on but to get to the crunch, I received a phone call on Thursday just gone with Daniel crying on the phone saying Mum Mum Xander is dead!!! I screamed why - he said he died in his sleep. My husband and I drove 3 hours to them immediately. I was devastated. when I got there, I found they lived in another dump, with the same druggy friend. he told me he was working and telling us all about it why he was home when the bay died because he was on days off etc etc. anyway I went to the hospital and held the little darling and apologised for not seeing him or being there for him. The supposed death is SIDS - It was the mo0st horrible experience of my life.
We all sat around that night and had a few drinks etc - daniel got drunk and started going off as usual and then he walked away and was mouthing off at people in the street - disgraceful behaviour.
We went back to our motel - the girlfriend stayed at her mums. We went around the next day - they were drinking again at around 12. we told them we would go home as the baby had to go away for an autopsy and we have no idea when the funeral will be. so we came home - the next day Catie rang and asked could they come out here I said of course - as they wanted to get away. They arrived yesterday afternoon - all was good. Her mother rang that night and said the night previous they had had a run in with some drug dealers and there were guns and the police involved. They told me they only had 3 drinks. I also found out he did not have a job he left after 3 days. told catie he had hit his head - told them at work he had a dr's appt and just never went back - she is on the single parents pension. we had a talk he of course blamed everyone else and said it had nothing to do with him , I then asked him to show me his arms he would not. i asked them to leave. Is this heartless of me. I cannot cope _ I cannot feel that this poor baby should not be dead. I think there is more to it. I seriously do not want to go to the funeral because I could not stand to see his lying deceitful face there showing remorse when I no he has none. we all though he would change for the baby but to my horror it got worse.
I feel numb, emotionless. I do not want to see hime ever again. obviously there is a great deal more to this story.
Please I just need some sort of direction as to whether I am doing the right thing??I feel terrible that I asked him to leave but the lies and deceit - I just cannot accept it and how it has all turned around and is about him and not that poor defenceless baby is amazing and sickening.
- February 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM
To cherish 03. It is a very difficult thing when the person you are trying to deal with is a sociopath and also your son. It is very hard to break the bond between mother and child regardless of your chlds age. But if anyone can break you down to the point where you are willing to cut all ties it would be a sociopath. The sociopaths lack of emotion can cut you to your very core. You can spend years trying to understand how your own flesh and blood could make you feel like you are in a terrible nightmare and can't wake up. Nothing they do makes any sense, nothing they do can really be understood. Our brain simply doesn't function like a sociopath and their brains don't function like a normal persons. If your son is in fact a sociopath and you do any research on this you will see that he will never change. Read Bells comment on Feb 11th. I think she said it best. How a sociopath can't change any more than a mentally retarded person can't gain more intelligence.
Good Luck with everything and don't feel guilty about what you are doing. If you want to exit out of your sons life I am sure his behaviour warants that.
- February 20, 2009 at 5:34 PM
- janet said...
Thank-you Anon - every post I read I can relate to somehow. Its frightening and as you said being a Mother it is extremely difficult. He contacted his sister yesterday who is away at boarding school and wanted to see her today - she rang me up crying saying she did not want to see him, I advised to text him back and be honest. The funeral is on Monday but as I said previously I cannot attend, I have seen the psychologist and talked through this and I believe I said my goodbyes to my grandson at the hospital. I simply cannot face him, her or their friends. I am cranky at the maternal grandmother as she was aware of what was going in the house and did not contact me?? Maybe I am just placing blame because I had turned my back on him but truly deep down I never ever thought he would be injecting himself etc with a little baby in the house!! Deluded I know especially considering all the lies and deceit. anyway we have cut ties - I have organised for flowers and a teddy bear to be sent to the funeral of my grandson. When I really think about what happens i start shaking and it just sickens me so much that I have to change my train of thought because I cannot believe i spawned this person
- February 20, 2009 at 6:08 PM
After reading all these comments and having just writen a long letter to my mum for the millionth time asking and pleading for her to love me nurture me and all the rest AND TO try and make sense of all the neglect and emotional abuse and meanness i realised and had a rude awakening that she too is a SOCIAOPATH I AM THE UNFORTUNATE FOOL WHO WAS BORN TO A SOCIOPATH AND THEN REMAINED MARRIED TO ONE AS WELL FOR TWENTY YEARS , BEING OF AN EASTERN CULTURE ITS INTERESTING THAt MY MOTHER CHOSE A MAN just LIKE HER SELF TO BETROTH ME TO AND GIVE ME AWAYA TO AT THE TENDER AGE OF 17 i was married to a sociopath , I THANK GOD FOR BRINGIN THIS INFORMATION TO MY ATTENTION NOW AT THE AGE OF 40 I REALISE WHY I WAS SUBJECTED TO SO MUCH CRUELTY IT WAS NOT ME !! aslo more interesting is that i once at in a session with her and my x husband for siritual healing and the healler saw both of them inthe thickest and heaveiest of chains around them holding them tight , ive never been able to make sense till todaya the common factor , why it would be these two people that i loved in these chains
wow !! wow !! wow !! thank you !!
- February 21, 2009 at 12:47 AM
After reading all these comments and having just writen a long letter to my mum for the millionth time asking and pleading for her to love me nurture me and all the rest AND TO try and make sense of all the neglect and emotional abuse and meanness i realised and had a rude awakening that she too is a SOCIAOPATH I AM THE UNFORTUNATE FOOL WHO WAS BORN TO A SOCIOPATH AND THEN REMAINED MARRIED TO ONE AS WELL FOR TWENTY YEARS , BEING OF AN EASTERN CULTURE ITS INTERESTING THAt MY MOTHER CHOSE A MAN just LIKE HER SELF TO BETROTH ME TO AND GIVE ME AWAYA TO AT THE TENDER AGE OF 17 i was married to a sociopath , I THANK GOD FOR BRINGIN THIS INFORMATION TO MY ATTENTION NOW AT THE AGE OF 40 I REALISE WHY I WAS SUBJECTED TO SO MUCH CRUELTY IT WAS NOT ME !! aslo more interesting is that i once at in a session with her and my x husband for sPiritual healing and the healer saw both of them inthe thickest and heaveiest of chains around them holding them tight , ive never been able to make sense till todaya the common factor , why it would be these two people that i loved in these chains
wow !! wow !! wow !! thank you !!
- February 21, 2009 at 12:54 AM
i need help my sister is a sociopath. I have to be involved with her because after my fathers death from cancer she stole all his money out of his account over one hundred and 77 thousand dollars We own my fathers house together I want to sell it but she wont, but I am the executor in the will. I need permission from her to sell it I spent so much money on lawyers and nothing can be done because she is so unreasonable and callous . I am so sad you have no idea what she has put my family through for 30 years My children are 22 and 16 and she absolutely has no feelings for them. She is dangerous around them calling them names and she does not care about anyone else but herself. Like I said we have this house and my husband and I take care of it collecting the rents to pay all the bills and she does nothing but sit in a coffee shop all day. She doesnt shower, she hordes all of this money and gets away with it she has always done what she wants. My parents were kept prisoners in their own house because she lived downstairs from them and she tortured them. I am afraid of her but we do live in different states about 1 1/2 hours away. But we always have to deal with her about the house. We are living a nightmare. What can I do can someone help us?
- February 24, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Well because laws vary so much from state to state I would try to find out if there is any way possible to force her hand to sell the house. And then follow through with your fathers will and be done with her. No contact. Just let it go as you will never get your share of the money she has stolen. If she got away with it and wasn't thrown in jail evidently it is a done deal. And you can anguish about it the rest of your life or just cut your losses but if you don't have to have further contact with her in the end it might be worth it!
Once you have tried every legal aspect of seeing if you can force her hand to sell the house, if that fails, then you have a very big decision to make. If she made your own parents prisoners in their own home, imagine what she will do to you and your family if you continue to be co-owners of this house. A sociopath will do anything to win. And if this house is her next battle, are you and your family really willing to be her next victims? I am sure that the LAST thing you want to do is walk away from the house after she already stole your parents money. But it seems that you have 2 choices. Stay in the nightmare with her as co- owners of the house and let her torment you. OR bow out, and I know that must be awful to just let her win as she doesn't deserve to get away with it. But I don't think there is a win/win situation with a sociopath? It is very difficult to walk away from something your entitled to such as half of your parents estate. And yet sometimes peace of mind and less stress in your life can be so worth it. Once you accept the fact that you won't win this battle with her maybe the next step will seem possible.
- February 24, 2009 at 7:42 PM
What does a parent do when their 16 yr old son is a sociopath? I am his grandmother and MY heart breaks when I look into his eyes. He has fit the sociopath definition since he was 4 or 5. Hard to believe, but true. His IQ is high, his love for anyone is less than caring. My son and his wife were locking their bedroom door at night, because he said he would kill them. Toren is now in a lock-down facility and will be there (again) for the criminal behavior he demonstrates. It's as if he's possessed. So, how does a parent get out of that child's life? My son said to me just yesterday, "Ma if you only knew the peace that is in our home now, you would understand." Toren strangled their dog when Toren was only 4. Months later, he drowned the cat in the toilet. When I asked him about it, he said, "oh gramma, you don't want to know cuz they made terrible noises and the dog foamed around his mouth." Still, it's difficult for me to comprehend. So, are there any teen-sociopaths reading this? I would like to hear from you.
- February 25, 2009 at 9:58 AM
My husband has always seemed a decent family man, but has had a habit of lying about little things, over many years. I have battle to understand this, as it seems so out of character. He is generally a reliable person - but this lying is consistent, even predictable, and after many many years of marriage, I am all the more sure that I cannót believe almost anything he says, be it big or small, for he simply has no regard for the truth in any matter. He just says whatever he thinks of at the time.
This habit has eaten away at our relationship until I feel that I don't even know him anymore. He doesn't seem to be affected by the distance that has developed between us. He carries on with life, continuing to do whatever he does, without any feeling of obligation to do the things he has said he will do ... I am at my wits end, but genuinely feel there is just no point in talking to him .. nothing ever changes ... nothing means anything to him ... he just continues on with a kind of happy go lucky approach, all the while, ignoring any relational boundaries or commitments. I don't think he is unfaithful, but he might as well be ... there is no intimacy between us anymore, and he has always been uncomfortable expressing any deep desires or feelings - or rather, says he doesn't have any.
We have 4 children who believe we are a family, and love us both ... can I just continue to live this way .. it seems too late to try to change anything now.
Please help me ...
- February 26, 2009 at 4:04 AM
Eric??? What would a sociopath do if I called him a fucking sociopath? excuse my language but I just confirmed that the guy I am dating is 100% sociopath... so much so that I don't even have to give senario's or ask questions... he def is!!!!! For sure!!! I have been trying to leave for a while but of course... he has manipulated me... so now I'm done but I want to let him know, that I know, that he is a sociopath!!! Bad idea, right!?! But I sooooo wanna say it!!!
- February 26, 2009 at 7:12 PM
i am not eric, but in my opinion, he isnt going to give a shit what you have to say. he will probably laugh in your face and somehow twist it on you. secondly, you dont want to anger him, cause who knows what sociopaths are capable of. i dated one for 13 years who became extremely violent and threatening when i called him out and kicked him out of my life. it has been 6 months and he still wont leave me alone. he is very smart and does little things to scare me, that do not warrant an arrest. he knows if he comes near me that he will be arrested. i refuse to allow him to know that he scares me and affects me the way he does. i will laugh in his face the next time i see him. everything is a game to sociopaths. your guy doesnt care what you think. he may use your fear as an advantage to fuck with you. run away and dont look back!
- February 26, 2009 at 8:38 PM
I agree!!! I have figured that out!!! I am never going to talk to him again... I like to believe that through Christ all things are possible... so I will leave this one to God... and just pray for him and more importantly those around him!!!
- February 27, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Eric or Adam,
Would a sociopath be able to manipulate another sociopath? Do you ever feel vulerable about anything or at anytime? And are you impervious to criticism?
- February 27, 2009 at 3:38 PM
- Miss Sweet said...
I do recall from previous statements that you don't care about what others think with the exception of if they feel superior to you. However, does that mean that sociopaths have no insecurities?
- February 27, 2009 at 3:41 PM
- Adam Khan said...
Those are great questions! I don't know the answers to any of them. Eric?
- February 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM
- Miss Sweet said...
I almost forgot. If superiority is necessary for a sociopath, then would the best insult be indifference to their attacks and continuously expressing your belief that you're the superior one/more intelligent? Never allow them to (even if you are) believe their winning the game?
- February 27, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Amber I guess I don't understand why you are trying to insult a sociopath? Or trying to win them at their game? If you believe the person you are dealing with is a sociopath then your concern should be more for your saftey and your focus should be more on getting AWAY from them. If you still are under the notion that you will win them at their own game then I don't believe you have seen what the sociopath really is capable of.
The sociopath might call it a game but it really isn't. Games have rules and there are no rules in a sociopaths lifestyle. If the questions you ask are for the sake of acting upon them such as expressing your belief that you would be superior one, I believe you are playing with fire.
Unless the sociopath in your life is one of your dependants and a child you are responsible for I don't even know why your focus would be on winning a game where the rules don't apply to the sp your playing the game with? Even if you are ANGRY beyond belief at the sp in your life this is not a game you will win by trying to gain the upper hand.
- February 27, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Could someone tell me if they believe this person i know is a sociopath?
They in high school would purposfully write obscene and cruel things on the chalk board in the (sometimes) successful effort to make a sub. teacher cry.
They make friends with people/ become someones roommate and while these people are in the shower text message their boyfriends telling them that the girlfriend has to work tonight but they can hang out and have some fun.
They talk about their friends behind their backs and when confronted on it start calling to harrass their parents, siblings, friends, and boyfriends and husbands.
They pretend to be the perfect girl, everything they guy wants trying to get him to start cheating, then starts calling the girlfriend trying to be her friends and after she feels accepted as a friend sends her information suggesting she's the "other woman" who's pregnant and then plays between wanting to help her get out of the relationship (appearing to want to genuinly help) to sending messages with the intent to be cruel and hurtful. Not to mention the crazy calls from all sorts of people.
Starts acting like the ideal woman for a guy when he's around they proceeds to act the exact same way with other guys when he's gone.
Tells people when she was in high school that she'll perform sexual favors for them (while she's in another relationship)
- February 28, 2009 at 11:32 AM
You SP's are laughing at us here on earth for the short time you'll be here... but you won't be laughing in hell for eternity!!! So that makes me laugh here on earth...
- February 28, 2009 at 3:35 PM
(Eric) Wow, k there a lot of questions I'll start with from the first ones. It is a terrible idea to call out this sociopath becuase it seems as though you want him to know how clever you are to have figured this out and that you are independent and well, the sociopath will show you just how insecure and unintelligent you really are. I always wonder why people call me out on the way I am or try and criticize me for it because they know what I'm capable of and many have seen just how damaging I am but they still choose to confront me. These people now become an immediate target because I show them just how stupid and ignorant they are to confront me on this. Why would you want to try and gain an upper hand on someone you know could cause unimaginable pain to you? It is hard for sociopaths to maniuplate other sociopaths because a sociopath is constantly weary of others and untrustworthy. However, I have tricked and ruined the lives of a couple sociopaths because of their inherent arrogance and false superiority. The sociopaths I have met have all been quite intelligent and it only took a short period of time for them to establish me as one of them so it is much, much harder to attack them. I don't believe I feel vulnerable in the same way that you would, I am never nervous or uncomfortable with any situation. I thrive off of uncomfortable and tense situations because it is here the true nature of people are revealed and to sociopaths this is a gold mine. When people criticize me I don't view it as criticism although most people would be upset about being called a heartless bastard to me its just a pat on the back for doing a good job. To be honest nobody really criticizes me, people don't like to confront or try to piss me off because they fear the repercussions. Hmm good question about insecurities. I believe that there are varying degrees of sociopaths and those that have become one from the nurture retrospective would have more insecurities than a normal person, however I would not consider these people as a sociopath, although they have no remorse or empathy. Sociopaths are incredibly narcissitic so no, I don't really have insecurities because I view myself as better than others. Although I am narcissitic I am also a realist, I can see the truth in world but I may become intolerant of it if it coincides with my ego. Sociopaths win, period. Life is a game, relationships are a game, power struggle is a game and sociopaths win. People think they are not showing a tell, but as humans it impossible to lie and hide your true feelings without some sort of tell. When people lie their heart rate goes up, when a sociopath lies nothing happens, they often twist it in their mind that they are even telling the truth. You cannot trick a sociopath, we know how you feel. Although some people act tough in front of you, sociopaths can tell you go home, cry and stress about that 5 minute confrontation for days. I think the problem is that some people think they are smart enough or tough enough to beat a sociopath but this is actually an impossiblity. Sociopaths know you have an insecurity and if you think you don't ask yourself if you care about anyone or yourself. If you said yes, than sociopaths can attack that person until you break; because sociopaths don't care about others there is no way to hurt them, you can only piss them off.
- March 1, 2009 at 1:31 PM
(Eric) Wow, won't you be surprised when you discover what really happens when you die... I laugh at you now because you are an idiot. You should really think about heaven, hell, purgatory and earth and see which platform you are currently in. You talk as if you have lived a thousand lives and have an expertise on life after death, tell me how many times have you died and gone to heaven and laughed at those you saw in hell? Why do you assume that heaven and hell are physical places and not states of mind? Why do you assume you will go to Heaven? It has been over 2000 years since Jesus opened "the gates of heaven" and you assume Satan has just sat by content that God has a commanding power over him and earth. Consider the idea of saints and demons and their role here on earth, consider where they came from and their purpose and perhaps you will have a better perspective on the truth. I am not crazy, you just follow the rules of ignorance and bliss...
- March 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM
(Eric) If God died tomorrow would you notice?
- March 1, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Unfortunantly, Eric, because of who you are... you could never understand the Truth... so I won't waste my time trying... I understand that you can never feel what we can, just as we can never feel what you can... it's even... a draw... but as you love who you are... I too love who I am... you actually are missing out... Love feels awesome!!! It's worth all the other emotions the having a conscience brings!!
- March 1, 2009 at 5:10 PM
(Bell) If God made sociopaths, and they can't help being sociopaths, how much of it is really their fault?
- March 1, 2009 at 8:21 PM
Gosh thats a loaded question. As if you look at it that way then God made alcoholics, drug addicts, serial killers, and the list goes on and on. As more and more research is being done on addictions much of this is genetic as well.
I guess the way I see it is that if you love the alcoholic (or fill in the blank, sociopath, drug addict ect) you have to learn to seperate the person from their sickness. And although seperating the sickness from the person might help explain why an alcoholic does much of what they do.....It is still just the REASON WHY, not an excuse. So maybe it's not their fault that they are born alcoholic, anymore than it is a sociopaths fault. But it is what it is. People still need to be held accountable for their actions.
I think that is one of the biggest mysterys on this earth. It is why people question faith. If God is good, how is it that he can make people so evil?
- March 1, 2009 at 8:45 PM
I always find it strange that when people talk about God... they forget completely about Satan... who is just as real... maybe it is just easier for Satan to prey on people of no conscience... and you are forgeting that although they have no conscience they do know the difference between right and wrong... as Eric has stated... they can still act accordingly... they just don't care is the only difference...
- March 2, 2009 at 5:30 AM
I hope I can make good use of this resource as I am married to a sociopath and see no way out. He doesn't make enough money to live on his own and I have not found it in myself to just abandon my home, esp. since I have elderly pets. I guess my core question is, what is the best way to minimize damange to one's self while living with this? My strategy has evolved to one of just playing along with whatever he is obsessed with and trying to stay very self focused in my own head and stick to an exercise program, routines, in touch with friends,etc. There are big issues with boundaries (he moved into my house but feels he is entitled to all my income and all the space in the house) and periodic blowups between us regarding that have held some boundaries intact, like he hasn't spent MORE then my paychecks so far. I think the best boundary guard has been, of course, other people knowing about what he does. Probably the worst part for me is that I'm still hooked into wanting to believe he cares about me, and he acts caring of me when he senses I've hit the point of walking out (and no longer supporting him). Or maybe I just feel safer when he is more caring and less passive aggressive. I've been sucked back in time and again but when I try to create more distance between us he confronts me and verbally backs me in a corner about it. He claims to love me more than his prior 3 wives and countless girlfriends. He claims this is the first time he's ever really loved. Once the pity play if over he's right back to the back handed putdowns followed by a maniacal sounding laugh. Anyway, what can you tell me to help me stay under the radar for the time being? I try to give him just enough attention to not bring on confrontation, at the same time I try my darndest to not let him self stimulate by gigging me for emotional responses. He does make me feel almost ruthless in my inability to shower him with love when says he cares so much about me, but those are just words of the moment and the big picture never fits with them at all. What is the best way to just stay under the radar and keep him focused on other avenues for playing his game? Thanks.
- March 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM
I just had a run in with a sociopath. An old acquaintance from high school who contacted me via Facebook. I have to say, I'm in the field of therapy, and I didn't see it coming - probably because my blinders were on for a friend. We reconnected as old classmates and then started connecting on lots of topics. He's a 38 year old who has never been married or had a girlfriend that lasted over a month. I'm happily married and never allowed him to talk to my husband and videophone with us thinking we were building a friendship. Along the way he shared his affinity for dating girls in their early 20's, frequenting prostitutes, strip bars and a dysfunctional home life that made my heart go out to him. Although the questionable conduct concerned me, he was masterful at explaining how normal this was given the fact he wasn't dating anyone steady, and how judgemental of me it would be if I discounted him for his actions. Several times, due to serious disagreements, I tried to cut him out of my life. EAch time he convinced me I was being judgemental and he cared very much for our friendhship and me and wanted us to stay connected. This last time I cut him off his response was completely different. He lashed out at me regarding person conversations unrelated to the incident. He began parroting psychological diagnosis and phrases that seemed to be given to him and projecting them onto me. He went so far as to call me a sociopath and insane and that's when it clicked. Though I tried to reason with him, calm him down and disengage, when I suggested he might benefit from help was when he flipped out on me. I finally backed off, blocked him completely from any contact and frankly was shaken from the intensity of the interaction. I have met many disturbed people in my field but I had never gotten close to one and cared about one so much that I let my guard down and felt their wrath straight away. This went beyond a hurt reaction straight to a I must win at any cost and empathy be darned. I caution anyone, much like this author states, who decides to end a friendship or relationship with someone like this not to suggest therapy to them. It was like waving a red scarf at a bull. Just walk away calmly and shut them out.
- March 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM
The "never" above was meant to read "even allowed".
- March 2, 2009 at 12:02 PM
And I want to add one more thing, there were many many signs to what was coming. But as the author said, this person was so good at mimicing feelings, even sounding convinced he felt them at times, that ignored them.
Some of the signs were as follows:
1. he told me he didn't understand feelings or love
2. he was put out on a curb by his mom as a child and completely isolated by his dad so he walked the streets or our hometown knowing he wasn't wanted at home
3. he had a relationship with his mom that was beyond disfunctional; called her by her first name; lent her money then repo'd back things when she didn't pay back
4. he started diagnosing people (I saw this as mimicing my field of which his is unrelated) so his mom was a narcissist, sister a controlling anorexic, other sister inferiority complex, aquintence of ours both a narcissist and sociopath, his friend down the hall a religious zealot bipolar; etc.
5. when he did date a 20 year old he met on sugardaddy.com, he played a cat and mouse game with her filled with emotional blackmail and regressive behaviors (a 38 year old acting like a 20 year old) which was very disturbing
6. he was obsessed with the election and Obama's presidency creating anti Obama websites filled with painstaking "facts" and sinking in person monies to have these sites posted in all newspapers that would allow it
These things on their own seem like nothing. And they unveiled themselves over the 8 months we were friends. In retrospect instinct should have prevailed but I post this not only because I'm still trying to make sense of it but because if anyone sees too many signs like this in someone it is unhealthy to continue the relationship.
- March 2, 2009 at 12:12 PM
To Anonymous that is married to the sociopath that isn't wanting to leave.
Well first off I guess it is a trade off. You get to stay in your house (and of course you deserve that)However by staying in the house and living with a sociopath you are also never going to know peace of mind. So there is your trade off. You can walk around for days on egg shells but there are always going to be the moments when he goes off on you. And as you yourself admit you WANT to believe that he loves and cares for you. If he is a sociopath he loves and cares for no ONE but himself. You are listening with your heart when he proclaims love but your intellect knows that he is not capable of love. So there is also alot of manipulation going on here.
I don't care how many friends you have or what kind of connection you keep to the outside world. When you live with a sociopath and passive aggressive behaviour you are not going to be able to minimize this pain. Only you know the degree of negativity that you live with on a daily basis. What is your peace of mind and well being worth to you? That is a question only you can answer. Once someone degrades you on a daily basis it becomes harder to see that you do DESERVE more than your getting.
Ask yourself this question. Be HONEST. If your best friend was living with the man you described. Same EXACT situation. What would your advice be to her? Would you advise her to stay or advise her to go? However you answer, it might be wise to follow your own advice that you would give to someone you care about.
- March 2, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Answers: I wrote about sibling. To Amber: Just ignore them. They're not used to being told "no." You may have to prove you don't care and honestly, for me I had to not care before I could prove it. I don't know when or how, but one day I woke up and realized I was there: I didn't care any more. My mother got there years before I and I thought she was terrible. Unfortunately, she suffered unto her death (which the cause of is still questionable). Her wedding ring disappeared the night she died. Lies, lies, lies. (HIM) my sibling was not tested young. My mother kept trying to get help and was always told 'until the child breaks a law, there's nothing we can do.' To the father (who had something stolen from him twice). Count your blessings. Everyone in our family has been stolen from countless times. What you have to watch out for is their 'repentence.' Although my sib. never admitted doing anything wrong, the charming, charasmatic, personality makes you WANT to forgive, believe, and love them. When others criticize you for cutting yourself off from the socio, just know you're doing the right thing and you have to protect yourself and others in your family. It is such a confusing disorder. The author of this post is correct. The only saving grace is to cut yourself off and not go back. It sounds cruel, but it's better than condoning co-dependent dysfunctional and criminal behavior and they keep calling you to bail them out. You need to live your own life and let the socio live his/hers. God bless you all as you struggle. I know first hand.
- March 2, 2009 at 7:46 PM
WOW! two days ago I finally put words to what was happening in our lives. My Fiance's X fits all this to the tee. I Couldn't put my finger on it until my fiance broke down the other day proclaiming that he hates her and proceeded to tell me in detail what she has put him threw the last 13 years with all the lying ,cheating, manupliating, controlling. I'm not sure if I should be worried for my own saftey, but she has broken us up in the past and now back at it again. This time she went as far as going to OUR church which she knows we are very passionte about and seeks out a counseler there to manuplate and lie to, to get this counseler on her side and then sets an appointment for all three of us and told the counselor that she just wants to get along, makes and theatens my X that if we don't show up for the counseling meeting she won't let my Fiance have the custody of their child that they agreed apon.( My Fiance has had full custody for the past 12 years) She was given 1/2 custody a year ago and when my finace broke up she just diappeared and out of the picture.. She was out doing drugs and her thing sleeping around until she found out we were back togeter and engaged and all of a sudden appears, she has harrased their daughter to point that she is in tears and doesn't know who to trust. I thought I was going insane with all the stuff she has put us threw. My fiance and I are trying to make our relationship work we love each ohter dearly, but after the meeting we had ...I just couldn't sit there and listen to all the lies,I rolled my eye..she starts quit rolling your eyes...I felt so violated inside I just couldn't take it any more and I proceded to tell the counselor that she was lying and I said to my Fiance...TELL the counsler the truth, tell him what you told me..My Fiance is afraid of her because he knows that if he says anything that will upest her she will come back with avengence..she will attack when you not expecting it, she will catch you off guard, she belittles him and manipulates him into a place of submission and until she gets what she wants. This happens over and over again. The one time he did stand up for himself, she came to his apartment and wanted their daughter and he said no and she slapped him in the face and He called the police and she took off and was arrested. He got a restraing order but when they went back to court the judge would not even listen to his side of the story and dropped it. My Fiance and I can't even have our own life and now that the X is back in the picture she has managed to win her daughter over with her fake bible reading, being interested in anything she is interested in...but mad when she doesn't call her mom or pay attention to her. I tell you what.. I know that if I were to leave again, which I am about to do because I can't mentally and physically take this anymore, I know she would just go away again. I don't know what her next move is..but after that meeting which turned out into a brawl you can bet she has something planned .. and I don't know if I should be worried. I don't know what to do.
- March 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Sociopaths will never stop... from the experience I have had (dated one)... I think the only solution is to run as fast as you can away... I know you love your fiance but this will never ever stop!!! And it is hard to explain to anyone the destruction they cause... unless you are a target of a SP, one can not understand what they do to your life... Also, if this woman is truely a SP (I am not sure because I haven't got enough details from your story) then do not let them know you have caught on to them... just go away as quietly as you can... the only other thing, if you don't want to leave your fiance, is to get full custody and move away and allow no contact from the ex... Good luck...
- March 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM
I don't know what this relationship is worth to you. You said your fiance is afraid of her and will not say anything to trigger her to the counsler. That is a good and REAL indication that you should be afraid of her to. If she has any idea that you would move away with your fiance and her child you can bet that he will not get full custody. She doesn't want the child she wants to win. And she will. One way or the other. If you get married things will go from bad to worse. and the only time you will get a moments peace is when she finds another target. Once she gets done with that she will pop right back into your lives and do her thing. If she is a sociopath know that when you marry him you are getting her as part of the lifelong deal.
- March 3, 2009 at 8:51 PM
I have been struggling with whether or not to contact the mother of my ex's (the SP) child... we have many mutual friends from highschool and I am sure she has a negative view of me and it is really bothering me... esp since we know the same people... I want to email her and tell her this... all I want to say is that I'm sorry for how I am sure he has made me out to be and that he manipulated and "tricked" me... I would not mention that I have figured out he is a sociopath but I think he may know that I figured him out... and I'm not sure that she won't tell him I emailed to tell her sorry for getting involved with him... as I know he still messes with her head too and they sometimes still hang out when he doesn't have another target... they have a child together... do you think it would be a bad idea to email her? I just don't want her telling all of "our" mutual friends that I'm a bitch or making them think negative of me...
- March 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM
Actually the more I think about it... I don't think I will say anything or try to contact her... I am not sure that she won't say anything to him... even though she is not with him anymore, he still is able to manipulate her... they are "on again off again"... and I know he would be PISSED if he knew we talked and I am afraid of him really... I'm not sure what he is capable of... I guess I'll just have to not worry about what people think... because those who really know me, know I am a good person and love me... I feel so bad for her and her child because they do not know what they are truely dealing with... but I guess I have to look out for my own safety... it will blow over eventually because I am pretty sure he will never contact me again because I think he knows I caught on to him... IF YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH A SOCIOPATH... GET OUT... RUN... BEFORE IT RUINS YOUR LIFE IF IT ALREADY HASN'T... since leaving I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders!!!
- March 4, 2009 at 8:43 AM
I completely understand the advise to get away and fast, but what about those of us who can't do that immediately? Are there any support groups for coping strategies for those of us who are stuck in the short term? One of my strategies is to fill as much of our time with routine activities as possible, and a fair number of those being seperate activities. I also work really hard on keeping the facts front and center - this person will never care about me beyond what it scores for them. They know their business, but then so does a cobra. I have to play along to a certain degree so that what I call the "super sensitive sucker detector" doesn't go off signaling dangerously low usability. When it goes off, the manipulative charm comes on. You have to be a master of evasion. But keeping the facts clear does help. Any one else in my shoes?
- March 4, 2009 at 9:42 AM
(Eric) If your stuck with a sociopath for whatever reason. never confront them. Every person has certain triggers that immediately switch them into a rage but a sociopaths rage is much different and much worse. They are able to think clearly during a rage and because of this they can hold their composure and think out possible verbal or physical abuses that will break you down. They most likely already know your insecurites and the second you confront them or do something to anger them they will release this with no care about the damage it will cause you. I don't understand why you people that are in a relationship with a sociopath cannot leave. If you know this relationship is bad for you and you know they mistreat you then why do you stay? They may be charming but how naive and gullible must you be to stay with someone who constantly hurts you for fun, I've always wondered why this in my own relationships. Don't look at how hard it is going to be to leave, look how hard it is going to be to stay with them... And don't tell me I don't understand because I haven't experienced love, that's a cop out for your fear of being alone.
- March 4, 2009 at 1:25 PM
I agree with the fact that alot of people can't reach closure even when the truth is staring them in the face. I am this person's immigration sponsor. I signed an affidavit of support and they have no other means of support. That's why I keep asking for coping strategies because I'm thinking if I'm not that good of "game" they will focus their energy elsewhere. And granted, I am living with a fantasy that maybe this will happen without my having to go through hell.
Maybe you can tell me this: You said that you wonder about people who've stayed in a relationship with you even though a sociopath constantly hurts their partner for fun. Can you characterize this "fun" relative to, say, getting praise for being such a wonderful partner and person? Is the "fun" more stimulating? Or does it just come in as part of the using - being all take and no give? If you can dispassionately create any dynamic with another that you choose, why is it that you do not choose to be elevated in the eyes of everyone around you? Or is the empathy piece what makes that difference? And one more question: What kind of person would you avoid a relationship with or lose interest in? I know you (or someone) said that you can't beat a sociopath at their own game, but I have had to really put my feelings in an airtight container and send them out to sea for the time being and get in survival mode. I know I'll never "win" but I'm hoping to be as incidental as possible for now.
- March 5, 2009 at 9:18 AM
Okay so here is my question... I thought the SP ex was done and bored with me because I was done dealing with him and told him to F off basically... that was before I had a name for what he is... a textbook sociopath... but of course the phone calls have started again and he is leaving messages like nothing has happened... so... should I just keep ignoring the calls or should I text to not call anymore... that I am done and moving on... remember he doesn't know that I know that he is an SP... would it be better to just ignore or to calmly tell him that I just don't think I am interested in him anymore?
- March 5, 2009 at 5:57 PM
Eric I would like your input if you would so indulge me?
- March 5, 2009 at 5:58 PM
(Eric) The "fun" I am describing isn't hysterical laughing or anything like that, I have never really experienced this type of happiness. As a sociopath I do live a shallow emotional life and so the "fun" I am descibing is simply an amusement. For me, it is amusing to abuse someone and watch how they sit there and take it because they are scared of confrontation. I find it funny to see how far I can push someone until they break down just because a negative reaction against me may result in their discomfort. It is amusing "fun" to me to see how demeaning I can be to someone and still have almost complete control over their choices. I have no desire to be faithful and caring to someone, so yes this amusement and abusing creates more stimulus because I feel nothing from being in a positive relationship, it is unimaginably boring for me. This boredom I speak of, I believe is beyond your comprehensive but is a secondary root in my behaviour. Where some people would be content being in a give/give, positive relationship I am not, I would feel as though the other person has somewhat of an upper hand or a balance in the relationship. Although I do feel inclined to control my relationhips I believe the boredom and lack of motivation is a key role in anti-social personality disorder a.k.a. sociopathy. It is this boredom and severe lack of morals and remorse that create the "evil" sociopathic image. This boredom eventually must be coincided with some type of amusement, and the lack of a "conscience" opens the door for abuse in relationships. I believe I am elevated in the eyes of others in the areas that I value. I value a military man's beliefs, pride, honour and mental and physical toughness. To be viewed as a great guy and very caring means nothing to me, however it is imperative to my ego and self esteem that others view me as someone who is unable to be affected by others. This appearance does come natural though because I do not care about others or their problems I only pretend to care to attain a personal goal, i.e. sex, money, or a relationship of only taking. The lack of empathy is the backbone to a sociopath; I know I can do whatever I want without remorse and guilt so there are no limits or considerations in my actions, this leads to our compulsive behaviour. The type of person I would avoid is someone who is full of themself, stuck up. Someone who believes they are King S*** and would immediately view me as less than them. I would avoid this person in a girlfriend scenario however their disregard for others is incredibly irritating for me and so these types of people become targets to me. I have recently ruined a girl who fits this description because I could not stand her arrogance and false entitlement, quite ironic that a sociopath would attack these people? Although I am very intolerant I cannot stand another's intolerance. I've said this before but the best way to avoid sociopaths is to be caring, intelligent people with positive self esteem. Too much self esteem, reaching an inflated ego will become a target and low self esteem will become a target that will never recover.
- March 6, 2009 at 2:18 AM
(Eric) Do not text him. Texting him will only further your communication, although a piece of you still wants that relationship, giving into it will only cause you pain and eventually regret. It would be very unwise of you to give in to your emotions. In the battle of rational and emotional, rational will always result in a better conclusion.
I seem to answer a lot of questions here so I would actually like to ask one to you people. These are not trick questions, they have just aroused my curiosity.
Why do sociopaths experience such a high degree of boredom?
Why do sociopaths tend to have an unusually high IQ?
Nature Vs. Nurture
Is there a correlation with sociopaths and sleep abnormalities such as excessive sleep, sleep deprivation, constant R.E.M. sleep and lucid dreams.
Do all sociopaths have such a profound innate knowledge of human understanding, i.e. emotions, reactions etc. and if so, why?
Why are sociopaths attracted to violence and murder?
- March 6, 2009 at 2:34 AM
I think you have good advice, Eric. Who could argue with being caring and having good self esteem? I will give you speculations on your questions, although it seems you already answered the one about boredom in your post. What I've read is that "normal people" use lots of their mental energy on interpersonal relationships i.e. feeling stuff, but without that, the boredom comes in - makes a certain amount of sense. Perhaps people with lower I.Q.s can have the same lack of empathy but aren't too deep when it comes to manifesting it, so they don't really pull off much of recognizable personality profile? Like they're just shallow unfeeling people who aren't smart enough to be good manipulators? Whereas the smart ones really get into the games? I have no idea about the dream stuff - but I know that I experience lots of emotion in my dreams, so what about you - do you dream but in an emotionless way? Maybe the innate knowledge of human psychology also comes with the smart sociopath, i.e. most smart people have that, sociopaths just use it differently? And because they aren't distracted by their own feelings, they can observe and learn even more acutely? I think the violent and murdering types are acting on their boredom and need to control for entertainment, right?
Honestly, Eric, I do feel somehow empowered by having a supposedly true sociopath tell me I need to be caring and maintain my self esteem in my situation with my husband. I know you don't care - ha! But, thanks. It is honorable that you give this advice.
Here's another thing I'm curious about - I noticed with my husband and other people who seem to be somewhat sociopathic, if you have a conversation with them and go away feeling like there was some "understanding" or resolution about an interpersonal issue, later it's as if it never occured, and they seem to recreate the past according to their self image regardless of the facts. Like my husband tells people lots of details about our initial meeting and early relationship that are fabricated and totally slanted to elevate him and make me look needy or foolish. I correct him, yet he'll tell the same things again right in front of me - with various embelishments. Another thing he has done is stand right next to me and expound my original words and veiwpoint on something as if it was his original thoughts. Any insight into that stuff????
And to the person asking about texting the ex boyfriend - STAY OUT OF THE GAME!
- March 6, 2009 at 8:00 AM
yeah... I'm not texting... I'm just facinated by this whole sociopath thing... it's all just so clear to me now... it is funny how much they(SP's) must be alike because I feel like when I'm reading Eric's post it may as well be my ex... it's crazy!! I have a question for the women who have been involved with one... thinking back on it... they really aren't good lovers... they are too selfish in the bedroom to be concerned with all that comes with being a good lover... at the time it might have seemed good, at best, because you are under their "spell" but now that I think about it... he wasn't very good... because their is no emotion in it... and we all know women need emotion for sex to be good... so I've determined they just aren't good lovers??? Anyone second that? Sorry Eric...
And Eric doesn't it bother you that you have never had a true laughing fit from the gut? like when you see someone in histarics? I was just thinking that I have never seen my ex laugh like that in all the years I have known him... he is witty and funny but a true honest laugh... Never! It is such a good feeling to laugh like that... it really is a bummer you can't experience emotions like that... what an empty life you all lead!
- March 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM
And also to Eric... it did seem like my ex took an awful lot of naps (excessive sleep)... he wasn't working of course...and had an acute awareness of body aches... and very smart... and was a master manipulator which comes with knowing how to get to people... but I wouldn't say a great human understanding... because you can't possibly understand "normal" people... although you think you can...
I think the previous person's post hit perfectly on the reason for the boredom... and I think it is a combination of nature and nurture when looking at the case of my ex...
- March 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM
And Eric thank you for all your advice on here... it is honorable!
- March 6, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Many of the questions you ask Eric are ones that have already been answered by you and I'm not sure if your testing us or if your really wondering about our opinions?
The violence/murder....I would suspect that is a combination of reasons. First off the easy answer the boredom . And this is just speculation.If sp spend a good amount of their time hurting and abusing their victims, and above all being master manipulators of their own "game" then doing a major violent act such as murder would be the ulimate conquest? I can't imagine murder being a conquest or a game to anyone. It doesn't even seem possible to me.
However the more I read on sociopathic behaviour the more horrified I become.
The highly intelligent sociopath would have a better grasp on peoples emotions and responses etc because in order to pick a victim they need to be able to read into their vulnerability. A victim is only a victim when they fall into certain criteria.
Those very people that you describe that you personally like to target, the arrogant, and the people who think their s___ don't stink. Even though, these particular people come across as thinking they are "it" usually deep down these people do have low self esteem and the arrogance is just on the surface. The intelligent sociopath sees this as a bigger triumph than maybe just taking down an easier target???
I believe sociopaths come in all shapes and sizes. Meaning that yes, many are highly intelligent but not all of them are. So I would think that the intelligent ones have alot more ability to size people up to be their next target than the unintelligent ones.
The dream/sleep question. Not real sure on that one what to think? I would say sociopaths do sleep alot because they do find themselves bored alot of the time and they don't enjoy spending quality time with others. But as far as the dream part of the question I don't have a clue?
- March 6, 2009 at 9:02 PM
I can't believe how difficult it has been to get an evaluation for my son. Much of the problom is lack of good insurance coverage it seems. The counsceling he is recieving is not by a top notch doctor. He is maybe a certified social worker. But in order to get my son evaluated by the doctor who over sees him I need him to turn in a request for this evaluation. THIS has been an ongoing uphill battle or so it seems.
I am starting to blame myself and think maybe some of the problem is my inability to define what I see on a daily basis going on at home. I am not the most articulate person. So much of what he does that is troubling it is one thing to "live" with it and another to convey it in words.
The lying is a good example of this. My son lies so much it is as if he has forgotten how to tell the truth. Lying is one thing. ALL teenagers lie. The troubling part is when it seems that he believes his own lies. BUT what I find even more concerning is when I catch my son in a lie he doesn't even respond. Most people when caught red handed in a lie do one of a couple of things....Tell another lie to try and cover up the first one. Or become defensive. Or even possibly confess to lying and say they are sorry, or SOMETHING.
My son doesn't even have a reaction when he is caught lying. He seems so out of touch with reality that it is as if he doesn't even "get it" that he DID just get caught in a lie. And he not only doesn't own up to it or even defend himself, he has NO reaction to it at all & acts as if it didn't just happen. It is as if he doesn't make the connection of what is REALITY vs his own little world. It doesn't even make sense to me and I SEE it on a daily basis. So how do you explain something that is so hard to put into words you almost have to see it to believe it? Especially to a couscelor that comes across as pretty arrogant?
Eric any suggestions?
- March 6, 2009 at 9:54 PM
That is exactly how I feel about trying to describe the sociopath ex to people. It is too hard to convey what they do in words. Unless you are a target (victim) you can't understand the full extent of the harm they cause. My ex did the exact same thing with the lying. I would catch him red-handed, if you will, and it was like no response, no remorse, no sorry! It was like it was no big deal. I think one time I said that I didn't understand all the lying and all he said was " yeah, I'm working on that". All nonchalant and went back to whatever we were doing. No emotion about it. It is the hardest thing to try to describe to my friends... so I quit trying. I don't know what I would do if it were my son... I'm sorry for you and will pray for you...
- March 7, 2009 at 5:00 AM
I will keep this short cause he could be here anytime.My husband fits the whole sociopath profile. I finally know whats wrong.Now the problem is we have a son that he does love.Hes trying to mold him into himself and as soon as J does not do what he wants he pushes him away until lil J does what he wants hes only 4.He will not let me have J if I go.He said hes taking me to court to take him.Since he has a job car and money and I don't can he do that?? Hes in the army and non of the wives work here on base.We have to get away from him before he does anymore damage to any of us.What should I do?? Please help me.I can't not live like this and neither can the kids.We r afraid of him and no he does not hit us.Its all emotional abuse.Even lil J is afraid even though his dad favors him more than us.my email is firstname.lastname@example.com
- March 7, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Please know that if your husband is a sociopath he does NOT love your son. You need to know this as thinking that he is capable of love is dangerous for both you and your son. He might however find great pleasure in "training" your son to be a chip off the old block. Genetically your children could be at risk any way. But raising them with the sociopath playing his game with your little one is something you MUST do something about. It is your responsibility to protect him. Do NOT do anything rash! You need a plan and this might take a little time. You need to save some money or you need to get a family member to help you. You need at least one person you can trust and talk to and bounce ideas off to help you come up with a solution of how to get out of this situation safely. Being safe is very important as sociopaths thrive on winning. The army from what I know of it is a pretty close knit "family" but it is his family and NOT yours so the most important thing you can do is find someone you TRUST to be your support during this.
Good Luck
- March 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM
I will second the fact that if your husband is a sociopath HE DOES NOT LOVE YOUR SON... as they are not capable of loving anyone... not even their own flesh and blood... it's hard to comprehend I know... he does however see him as a posession... which can be confused by you as love... I would do all you can on reading up on sociopaths and find someone you trust and figure out a game plan... being that he is in the army, he may very possibly be capable of great harm (murder)... Be safe and act causiously!!! (sorry if i misspelled anything typing fast) Good luck!!
- March 7, 2009 at 2:37 PM
(Eric) No, my dreams are not emotionless that is why I was curious about it. I seem to have some type of sleep disorder as I never actually fall asleep, I am constantly in R.E.M. or a lucid dream. My dreams usually consist of either violence or sex but never together, unlike many sociopaths I do not get off on violence. I believe you had some good points about my questions however I do not believe you grasped the question on violence. We are bored, this is true but violence is a consistent desire and thought I have during all times, even when I am entertained. Catching a sociopath in a lie means nothing to the sociopath. I know for me if I am caught in a lie especially when I was younger and my mom figured out I lied I would often just stand there blank faced staring at her. I did this for a couple reasons, it made her very uncomfortable and often she would not bring it up again, it gave me time to think of a way out of the apparent lie and sometimes it just meant nothing to me, I had no reaction to it. When I just stood there blank faced, it was becuase I didn't feel the need to refute the allegation because I didn't think the truth being discovered was going to alter my lifestyle at all. I simply stood there out of an obligation that when someone is talking to you, you look at them. However, although his face may be blank it is quite possible he is running hundreds of ideas and arguments in his head for later. Also, sociopaths define themselves by being able to keep their composure at all times and never show emotion, so in a way calling out a sociopath on a lie is a mini game for the sociopath to prove to you and himself that he can at all times remain calm. Ahaha sociopaths are similar in some retrospect but a disheartened woman will sound the same as another disheartened woman... It is true there is no emotion in sex for sociopaths because they do not feel affection towards the person they are having sex with, however I wouldn't say that all sociopaths are bad lovers, you'd be surprised how well a sociopath can fake love and affection. Also, I do not take offence in having better control over my emotions than you, so don't worry about insulting me. Hmm, nothing really bothers me so no, I don't really care that I don't look like a fool while hysterically laughing. I am more concerned with sitting back and analyzing the person's reaction to better understand that person and others. We simply value different things. For example you may look at the muslim relgiion and say you feel bad for the way the women cover themselves up but they may look at you and say they feel bad for women in America because they are constantly degraded in the media and in real life by exposing themselves. You cannot tell another person how to feel, and feeling sorry for someone who feels sorry for you is a trade off, a balance. (I am not saying that there is a balance between you and I though) I believe you are wrong in the belief that I cannot understand people. I know for a fact that I can read people and predict their reaction to each action much better than you are able to. I may not experience their every emotion but I understand how that emotion arises, the reaction from that emotion, how to use that emotion and how to cease that emotion. Believe it or not my questions were actually not a test but I like your skepticism. Yes it is a bigger triumph to knock down an arrogant fool because you are not only breaking them down but also showing them the reality and the faults in their behaviour and beliefs. I will answer more questions a couple days...
- March 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Eric you say you are always thinking of violence. I am wondering how that makes you feel deep down? I mean you sound like an intelligent person judging by your responses here. If you think about violence all the time do you ever suppose you will act on it and then end up in jail? Or is it the thoughts alone that are entertaining enough? Generally speaking if an intelligent person gets angry at someone, wants revenge, for a moment, but thinks about it and realizes it isn't a good idea. Do you also think it through like that? The average person
does NOT spend a whole lot of time thinking violent thoughts. So I would suspect it is alot easier for them to come to the conclusion violence is not the answer.
If you were watching a football game or something else that you might enjoy are you able to turn off these thoughts or is your mind always still thinking about such things? When you say you don't sleep. Is it because you can't relax and your mind is always thinking/racing? Is that a common sociopath thing? Not sleeping? Does it affect you in your daily life? Are you always feeling tired or do you believe that you don't require sleep as much sleep as an average person?
If a sociopath mimics feelings is it so that you may develop relationships with people and they later become your target? Or is this just learned behavior and more of a survival tool to exist in this world?
You say you have no tolerance. Is that just with people and relationships. Did you ever care about lets say an animal. Ever have a pet? Animals are pretty nonjudgemental. Is that something you would take advantage of or would you respect that? Do you have respect for anything? Not necessarily people but anything else.
- March 8, 2009 at 9:18 PM
I have a question about a potential sociopath ive been dealing with--if anyone can help....a guy claiming to be my 'boyfriend' moves in with me and refuses to touch me (prior to moving in extremely abusive in many odd forms refusing to see me only seeing me 1-3 hrs a week and making me beg to see him keeping me 'addicted' never having a normal or any form of a relationship)...claims that he's going to be my maid and 'no sex' then makes me jump thru hoops for anything sexual while seemingly being turned on by my cat or wanting or or molesting my cat..or hitting on anyone around particularly lone males...there is more to it and a lot...but not sure what kind of freak this person is...writing might be kind of confusing
molesting or possibly sexually doing things to his
gf's cat, but not his gf! he is sick...sicker than anything
ie refuses sexual things with a human/female but goes around
searching for a cat incessantly....sexual innuendos towards the cat
grabs his dick in front of the cat....wants gf to leave most likely
so he can do things to the poor cat..no proof yet but enough horrid bizarre evidence total freak psycho....rejects gf but wants to fuck lone men
on the street or on sidewalks....or anyone anywhere....total weirdo freak
psycho....will not touch 'pretty gf' or lay a hand on her....but will fuck
anything....is a nutjob....stay away from---psychotic freak
unstable insane weirdo nutcase....rejects virgin gf, so he can tell ehr family
she's a sex fiend, and searches for cat constnatly....gives the cat
compliments on how she looks nice.....says to the gf "theres something
going on between u and ur cat or "ur having sex with ur cat" ie
projections of himself... stay far away from he is a total psycho extreme
freak...never be his gf....he will refuse to fuck or do anything with
gf but will be out in wal-mart in daytona beach fucking his fat co workers...
he's crazy psycho will fuk anyone/anything...he treats his gf like a platonic beer buddy or a roommate with no contact, but is trying to egt in everyone else's pants and treats the gf's cat like she's his sex partner and waits for the gf to leave so he can get with the cat...and goes around searching for the cat completely fixated on it abnormally...because the cat seems to be who he runs to for sexual release and is raelly turned on by the cat..he seems almost flustered and can't contain himself...acts shy and blushes or starts breathing heavy...even walks by her and says "oooh yeahh" and grabs his dick while walking towards her as a gesture towards her...horrendous sick and disgusting...grabs his dick when he wants gf to leave or anticipating...ie...wants hot gf to leave so he can have a sexual encounter with...the animal?.. once said to gf "want me to lick ur pussy" in a strange way as he was saying that the cat was on the couch and he went to grab for her...ie was talking about the cat...smiling in a creepy sick way...he even buys cat food and says that hes going to ask the cat to be his valentine and has made odd sexual comments with regards to it...was most likely molesting his own cat prior to putting her to sleep...and would make odd comments about her...how he'd 'roll around with the cat' and how he had 'food on the table for him and his cat' all while rejecting his 'gf' and refusing to see or be with her...almost treated his cat like she was his gf or partner...and there was something odd going on there... and treats the gf like an asexual being the way he shud be treating an animal.. he is a sex addict---always masturbating or trying to pick people up or driving an hour to daytona beach almsot daily to do sexual things with ex co workers at the super-walmart....he however refuses to do anything to his so-called 'girlfriend' who he calls his gf who he's staying with rent free...and leaves her sexually deprived...and plays horrid sadistic games with her...and she is a virgin and hasn't hadmuch sex in her life...so this mentally ill demon goes and gets it everywhere else so he can live at her house and torture her sexually...and tell her to go get it from other guys and hope that she goes nuts and turns into the psychopathic whore that he is...and then hopes he can pimp her out and make money off her that way....he is lower than satan and the devil unruly crazy and uncontrollable and unpredictable.. he then uses manipulation tactics to make the girl seem crazy and abnormal and say his horrid insane behavior is 'normal'...he then claims the girl is 'extorting' him for sex and it's illegal while he's wanting to fuck her cat and living off her parents rent free....the world is his 'sex partner' as he hits on anything or wants to fuck anything...truckers, tow truck people random men, maintenance guys...cable guys hookers..seems to be into random sexual encounters with random weirdos around...heavily into 'cock sucking'....will not let his gf sleep with him but will pay hookers so they can get in his bed....pretends to be moral monogamous all while he is refusing you and runing to animals for sexual
releases or anyone else...refuses to touch gf and withholds tries to drive her crazy...plays sick games..only aggressive with gf and even uses an electric razor to 'shave her vaginal area' and cut her making her scream in pain then calling her a crybaby...while shes saying no...and no sex or pleasure....all while constnatly keeping a look out for the cat...if u talk about female friends or any friends...he'll get turned on and ask if ur hooking him up with them for fucking....but refuses to fuck his own 'gf'...he is a whackjob/nutjob...when drunk he'll punch your car, spit on you or everywhere around your house, spit in your face, embarrass you in public, humiliate/degrade, insult, throw away your shoes, try to tie you up--he is sick....he'll fuck anyone/anything guy, girl whoever except his 'gf'..wil make 'gf' jump through hoops for any kind of sex or affection...for a hug will fight yell scream go insane....then tell the girl that if she wants a simple 'hug' she will have to swallow his cum and do sick degrading horrific things....that she finds repulsive...and not pleasurable and just sick...all for a simple hug...other than that...totally non existent, absent, horror and horrendously abusive, yells screams in frail gf's ear for her asking him for a hug with otherwise no affection touching nothing....and almost punches her out for it...but he will go out searching for women/men anyone and any chance he gets seems to try to do something to the gf's cat...sexually..will not let gf sleep in bed with him...no touching no affection...using a virgin girl to treat lower than dog shit and deprive her affectionately and sexually for kicks and fun...very sadistic nasty mean and cruel....instead of doing things to the girlfriend, she has to initiate anything even hugs then gets rejected by this sociopath and yelled at all while he is constnatly on the lookout for a cat...who he most likely goes and molests for sexual releases...and is an abusive psychopath.....he is a maniac and beyond insane....this mentally ill nutjob will tell his very beautiful girlfriend who he's living off of rent free no bills...that in order for him to touch her she needs to get dolled up gorgeous tons of make up high heels....sheer torture....just for him to be interested in her but this free loading mental case drives an hour to daytona beach everyday almost to go to 'wal-mart' where he says he has to 'take a leak' ie fuck/suck his ugly co workers that look like shit so he can come home and play games with and reject screw with his extrmeely hot 'girlfriend' while living at her place rent free and getting away with anything and abusing her emotionally physically and sexually ie giving no sex virtually....and treating her like an asexual puppet or just being abusive to her...no conscience no remorse...constnatly threatening so-called 'gf' that he'll punch her break her jaw, do horrible things to her....refuses/withholds sex affection company anything and everything while living rent free...but travels daily to daytona beach to have sex with people he used to know or his hair stylist. Tells 'gf' to 'get to sleep' if he wakes up tries to get her to sleep so he can most likely molest her cat....but won't even touch her and if he does touch her he is abusive aggressive hostile painful only...nothing pleasurable or gentle or nice....he is heavily abusive to frail girl of onyl 100 lb's, and a cat possibly and has made pedophile statements as well...he will hit on anyone and gets turned on by anything that breathes....his website is --- he also wants to 'pimp his virgin gf out" but refuses to have sex with her and hopes she will go crazy and get it from other guys---this is this whackjob psycho's strategy---most normal pimps do things with women to get them sexually addicted, but this sociopath decides that he's going to move in with women rent free use them give nothing not even sex and they are virgins, and tells them to "go out with other guys" while he goes out and does anything that breathes and rejects a hot girl who he considers his 'gf'...he is mentally ill beyond sick and insane....he is a predator, pedophile, zoophile, will fuck and get turned on by any guy/girl around...any creature.. even cat food turns him on he claims it's 'wet and moist' cats made him breathe heavy and he is sexually interested in a gf's 'cat' and nto the gf...go to a rsetaurant with him and if the waiter tuoches him on the shoulder he is breathing heavy so turned on then tryign to have a pick up encounter with the waiter right in front of his 'hot gf'..he will try to pick anything up---your mother, your sister, your pets, your children...he will fuck or suck anything he wants to-- no remorse morals or a conscience...he is a user and a nutjob...has no family and doesn't care about his sick actions....gets turned on by female cats, trees, dogs, men, homeless guys, gay guys, any guy, any girl or anything...he is also really mental and keeps saying to gf...you need to put out more...when he refuses to even touch or do anything to her or even sleep with her....
- March 8, 2009 at 10:09 PM
the other article i wrote might be a bit confusing posted it on a dating psychos website...but here is a clearer example of this person...and to date has been violent, angry, psychotic, reckless, aggressive, abusive, kind of uncontrollable dictatorial and insane...refusing any pleasure, sex...will not do anything with 'girlfriend' on a bed, lies makes odd lies/excuses manipulates, my q also is is he getting off on the fact that the girl is a virgin hasn't had much sex...is open to sex so he's making sure to deprive her of it...ie making sure he torments her in this way and using every tactic to do so--rejecting her but wanting her 'cat' or strangers or anyone or cheating....for most guys being with a sexually deprived hot virgin would be a dream but this low life seems to be using any vulnerability to abuse heavily and withhold, reject, deprive and only abuse---are these sociopathic tendencies/tactics intentionally used on a target victim or just the nature of the sociopath to torment the victim...I have been dealing with a narcissist...who outright refuses any kind of sex or intimacy except him giving me oral on the couch and that's it..at first he even lead me on about oral sex the 1st 7 months we knew each other n refused to give to me but lead me on..and teased/tormented me...we've never had sex as im a virgin and he claims it's too much of a 'chore' to break me in...this has been going on 1.5 years now...his abuse was extreme (refused to see or be in my presence n wud have me over 1-3 hrs then kick me out n had me begging to see him) can't get into but then he moved in with me...he claims when he moved in with me...he would be 'all over me'. Not the case--he moved in--refused to sleep in the same bed together, will not touch me...withholds sex/affection extremely...for long periods of time...never had a 'sexual or honeymoon' phase.. will not lie in bed with me, sleep with me...i have to ask him to even lay a hand on me...for hugs/kisses...when he does finall 'hug/kiss' me it is only aggressive and annoyingly...and almost painful--total degradation..I have to pry out of him any form of affection, sex, touching, anything...him being a male and me being a very attractive female it is shocking that he could be this way as men are generally more sexually inclined...He acts as if it is a huge chore or burden to touch or do anything to me and is doing it intentionally to get N reactions out of me, but I feel it is more extreme than the norm....I begin going crazy over the lack of any physical contact, and yelling, fighting...telling him he better treat me like a woman and that me being so attractive how can he not even want to lay a hand on me....I said I did not have u move in to be my 'platonic roommate' ...he claims he wants to be a 'maid' and 'no sex'....when I ask him to touch me...he angrily says "WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO NOW"...and I have to dictate to him what to do-- once he 'invited' me to sleep in bed with him--would not touch me, moved to the other side of the bed..two hrs i laid there asking him to hold me....he refused...then fought me, yelled...rejected...said 'LEAVE ME ALONE' scared me out of bed...finally i came back after waiting 2 hrs...i said u BETTER touch me...he refused...fought argued got mad...he literall will not touch or lay a hand on me..he seems to want to 'yell and fight' and we fight all the time over the fact that he refuses to touch me be intimate affection hug kiss do anything...I request that he does and explain to him he's about to get kicked out...for not being affectionate or intimate or sexual and he fights and yells as if...this is asking of something extreme...and he deosn't want to do it..being a very attractive woman who he was obsessed over, I am shocked that he does everything to keep away from me 24/7 and will not touch or go near me...have any intimacy, affection, or sex...I begin to go nuts day after day freaking out..I've never had a boyfriend and am very sexually open and almost deprived and he knows this and is using it all just to torment me more and more...He's smiling as he's 'yelling back' at me for me going nuts over this...he seems to be really sadistic and almost insane in my opinion...then he starts saying i dont need affection but to get 'oral sex'...then he gives me 'oral sex' to shut me up--says "do i have to hug and kiss now"???? does it in a rush...then says "ok it's done with" leaves...and will not touch me again make a move or advance..in order for him to even touch me he will have me shower, put make up on, wear lingerie, go thru hell, and even then still reject me...sleeps alone...wakes up---only to wake me up in my bedroom--say "hello" wont touch me...do anything to me...I freak out..b/c i am a very beautiful woman...and say--are you gay--how can u resist not touching me...he still refuses...seems to get off on me going crazy....and yells fights argues if i ask him to even touch me...makes fun of me laughs...withholds any form of sex/affection..any physical contact. I am so attractive and sexually desirable he would masturbate to my pictures...but wont touch me.. wont even go out places, do anything living in my place rent free..refuses to show any affection or sex...it not a chore for him it's a burden or torment...yet he is so turned on by me but witholds frustrates, degrades, humiliates...torment no pleasure...After i am very upset/pissed off an entire day for him not touching me....extremely tormented..Then he'll come treat me like a puppet or like retarded child...touch me in an aggressive horrific painful manner, bite me painfully...anything that is painful or unpleasurable he does to me..instead of hugging it's aggression and yelling...that's it...anything
that is degradation or horror....hug me really hard...squeeze his body against mine aggressively
will not lie in bed with me or do anything in a bed... is extremely abusive...will sit or lie there with a stiff body not moving...like a robot or stone just withholding anything, and I have to pry, or ask or beg...
I am really confused because even the odd narcissists ive read about have had a 'honeymoon period or phase' and have not been as abusive as this person is..he seems very extreme to me.. The things the narcissist are doing...ie cleaning my house sometimes are only to appease my 'mother'
Or family into believing he's a decent or good guy---he's more interested in pleasing my mother who he has never met by keeping the house somewhat clean, than being a partner in any form...even claimed he's just a 'roommate, maid and wants no sex from me" yet after moving in claiemd he was my boyfriend and loved me...I don't know what kind of horrific mind and sexual and emotional games these are...but I am so confused and going crazy...to the point of yelling in madness to him...he still won't budge...he fights and yells back...sexually emotionally absent and dead...He makes sure to torment me and anything i request of him so he can one day tell my family that i just want "sex" all the time and that he's my sex slave..even though all he does is give me no form of sex or anything..ie he wants to blackmail me after withholding any normal form of sex or affection and tell people I just want sex all the time from him...I don't know what to because never having had a relationship and dealing with this lack of affection or sex or for anyone would drive someone crazy....he seems to really get off on doing this to me...is he a sadist? I know some N's withhold sex, affection, but not on this extreme level...is he a sadist, narcissist or just insane...is this sociopath more extreme than just a crazy narcissist? a most recent experience...the person trying to 'shave' my genital aera with an electric razor and actually cutting or hurting me...unnecessary situation of course..as I was telling him not to go there..he assured me it was fine until I screamed in pain...and recoiled in horror...of course that can make u not want sex or anything sexual out of total fear...very damaging...so instead of giving pleasure, choosing to give pain...no pleasure
only horrific pain...sadism and sexual sadism seemst o be one problem with this malicious and sick person...I think there are a host of deep issues and problems...and even with the N the abuse then comforting avoidant approach, the abuse is slightly extreme and comforting a little too impossible...the lack of wanting to give pleasure only pain is kind of scary along with the type of pain involved in these situations.
- March 8, 2009 at 10:16 PM
To the post above. What in the world can you possibly be thinking? I didn't hear you say anything about this man, even before he moved into your house indicating that he was someone who you should have been attracted to? (the honeymoon phase) If someone is abusive to you before they move in the end result is always going to be worse not better. If you learn nothing else from this experience, learn that. I don't know how old you are, and am assuming that you are younger. But if you are old enough to be out on your own then you need to know that it doesn't matter at this point what this guy is labeled. He is toxic and you are in a toxic relationship. If he is a sociopath then he can be very dangerous. You need to be careful. Do NOT call him on it. But you do need to get away from this guy even if it means leaving your house with him in it. Whatever you have to do to get away safely. And NO CONTACT. No matter what you label him, he doesn't sound like a regular guy, sounds dangerous. And of you are as young as you sound, do not jump into another relationship right away! Heal yourself, build back your self esteem, and your vulnerabilities. Take the time to do this or you will find yourself in another bad relationship. Maybe not a severe as this one but definately not healthy. You are very vulnerable right now and sickos seem to pick up on this and will sweet talk you into a relationship. Be careful.
- March 9, 2009 at 5:35 AM
I have read alot of info about sociopaths and I am convinced my 22 yo daughter is 100%. She lies, cheats, steals from us, her parents, grandparents and her favorite cousin.
I am trying to walk away for my health and etc. I am on nerve pills and anti-depressants and am having trouble with this hole thing. My main concern now is she has a 4 month old, our only grandchild, and I am concerned for her. How do you walk away when there is an innocent little baby girl? We have changed all the locks on our house, all the combinations and every password connected to anything. She has not talked to me for 2 weeks since I had to RUSH her...her words, to the emergancy room only to find she was lying and wearing my shoes that I have not been able to find. Last straw.....what do I do about the baby?
- March 9, 2009 at 11:01 AM
(Mary) Hi Eric,
What is the best possible way to tell a Sociopath to leave you alone? Doris is being harrassed by John now....he calls her constantly, her home/her work sends her emails, and drops off packages to her home while she isn't there? I told Doris to just place a restraining order against him? Would that sort of wake him up? finally realize it is over? He can't accept the fact that Doris, nor myself want anything to do with him. He believes Doris is with another guy? He won't accept that...it's him, he is a total reject...he is very low on funds, and now needs his cushion supply...Doris and myself are both home owners....meanwhile, John is in deep with debt. He continues to lie to her about me....as for me, I've changed my number, and turn off my cell phone, I just use it when I need to phone someone...and I live 2 hours away from the loser, where as, Doris only live 10 minutes away from him....What will let John back off? I told Doris, just lie, tell him you have a boyfriend? Would that excuse let John move away? Or should she just threaten him with a resraining order? any recommendations?
- March 10, 2009 at 7:15 AM
My neighbor is a sociopath. She has set out to destroy me in every way. She is also the manager of the building and an officer on the building's coop board. Things she says always have a little twist, like she'll tell lies about two different things and make up a whole new lie! People are terrified of her! Yet everyone goes along with her crazymaking behavior and some actually support it. I cannot move from this apartment and have tried to get legal help to stop her actions or at least to make the building's residents not see me as a threat to them, as she has told them I am. She has told very damaging lies about me, some accusations implicate me as a criminal. I avoid all people in my building when coming and going from the building, so I don't have to hear about how I was doing something I didn't do. I am definitely am suffering from PTSD. I feel as if I will never have a normal life again. To her it's all about winning.
- March 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM
- HDFC INFO EXCHANGE said...
I posted above about the manager/officer in my building, a woman. There is another sociopath living here. I was targeted by him a few years ago. He is super charming. Very manipulative. Really super deceitful and malicious. I onced looked at his eyes and saw they turned that cold color that people talk about, when he was displeased that he wasn't getting over like he thought he was entitled to. He made false statements to people in the building about me, that he had a restraining order against me. I went to the courts and they said there was nothing. The damage was done and he was able to buy his apartment based on the lie. The nasty lady joined forces with him. It was all to humiliate me. Sick. And guess what! There's nothing I can do it seems.
- March 10, 2009 at 4:24 PM
I'm not sure that both of these people are sociopath's... they do not sound like the one I dealt with... maybe the guy is but it usually takes years of knowing someone to know whether or not they are truely an SP... I've known lots of bitches and assholes in my life and they were not sociopaths... there is all kinds of different disorders out there... I think people need to be careful about labeling everyone that is an asshole or weirdo a sociopath... infact it is hard for me to even put into words the things that my SP ex has done... I have known him on and off for 15 years and I didn't know it til recently... I have to go back that far and know his history as well as the things he has done currently for me to acuratly label him a sociopath... which I am 100% sure that he is... he hasn't even done anything really malicious to me... it's more the control thing and the pity card... and he doesn't have any real friends... just victims and accomplices... the pity card is a big one... if you were to meet him you would either find him charming (if he has his sights on you) or just an asshole, narcissistic jerk (if he doesn't)... I'm just saying that from what I have experienced and the info I have read and the posts from Eric... I think some of you are to quick to jump on the sociopath bandwagon! I'm not saying the people you have encountered aren't nasty people... but sociopath's I'm not so sure... that being said... there are def some posts that do sound like true sociopaths...
- March 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM
I should add to the above post that he (my SP ex) does... lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, conive, has anger management issues (although never with me), has a history of juvinile deliquency, can't hold a job, lives only in the moment... he doesn't worry about past... like what he said or did was no big deal... doesn't worry about future (although he'll tell you what you want to hear)... he is unreliable, can't stick to plans, only hangs out when it suits him, can turn anything around to make it your fault... and even though I am a smart woman, you begin to fall for it and think maybe you are the crazy one... all this stuff takes time to know and figure out... I don't believe you can make a judgement call about sociopaths without knowing and being around them quite a bit... although now that I have experienced one, I will look for the warning signs and get away before I have time to figure it out... because bottom line if a guy treats you like shit then why do you want them anyway... or in the woman in the apartments case... I'm sure you can find another apartment... if they are truely making your life a living hell then just move... it can't be that hard...
- March 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM
and to the girl with the weird guy living with her... the one who likes cats... i'm not sure if he is a sociopath... but def is a sexual deviant... he is a freak... weirdo... scary... gross... RUN!!!!!!!!! and don't ever look back!!!
- March 10, 2009 at 8:54 PM
I actually had fun hanging out with him in the moment... but I guess the main thing to look for is if their words don't match their actions... Eric... I have been meaning to ask you why did he or we seemingly have a good time when we did get together and hang out? Was it just to keep me wanting him so I didn't want anyone else? because he is "fun" to be around, witty, etc... Do your "friends" (I'm using that term very loosly) enjoy your company? Do the girls you date enjoy your company but you just play mind games with them ultimately? Like you want them to want you but you don't really care about them?
On a side note for some reason I'm getting confused on when to drop the "e" when adding an "ly" to a word... sorry about that everyone...lol..
- March 10, 2009 at 9:36 PM
(Eric) To be honest I have never really evaluated or analyzed why I enjoy violence, it's something I grew up with and have always known. My desire for violence may have nothing to do with being a sociopath and could have been caused by my childhood. I do not think I will end up in jail becuase although there are several times I have wanted to be very violent I have had enough sense to restrain myself because I am aware of the consequence. No, thinking about violence does not seem to quench the thirst so to speak. I may be coming off as a psycho here but the truth is I allow people to see the side of me I want them to see; if I don't want people to think I am violent, they don't. I am currently in a universiy residence so I cannot really involve myself in many violent acts for obvious reasons so instead I tend to attack people on a personal, verbal level. If I am watching a football game I can concentrate on football, it's not like I am sitting there fantasizing about killing people. If I am being entertained my mind does not wander into thoughts of violence, but if a fight occurs it seems to flip a switch in my head which stimulates these thoughts again. No, I am able to sleep in about 5 minutes at any time. Sleeping is a choice for me, if I am bored I will go to sleep but if I am playing a video game or whatever then I do not need to sleep. I don't know if sleep deprivation is a common trend with sociopaths that is why I asked lol. However, there have been a few times I have chosen not to sleep because I do not want to dream. I remember all my dreams very vividly and often have trouble distinguishing reality from my dreams. For example I may dream that someone has wronged me and I will act accordingly and in reality they have not done anything. My dreams are quite complex and well, not fun to be in. I have had nightmares every night for about 5-6 years and so I have somewhat lost the appeal of sleeping. It isn't that these nightmares are scaring me it's that they are so real to me it's like living 8 hours a night in hell. It has affected my daily life, I suppose. I can go 2-3 days without sleeping but when I do go to sleep, regardless of how long I have been up, I sleep a straight 10-15 hours. Sleeping this long ruins your whole day so that is another reason why I don't sleep as frequent as others might. It is true that I mimic feelings and reactions to appear normal, but I do not target people for no reason. If I enjoy hanging out with someone then I will continue to hang out with them, I do not target them simply becuase I see them. Mimicing feelings somewhat a surviving tool. I mimic the norm so that I appear normal; I cannot walk around appearing as a heartless narcissist. I also find it amusing to mimic different personalities, for example I may choose to be a very outgoing, fun person at a party or a very reserved calm person, it all depends on my motive for the night. I act in accordance to what I want. Yes, I am very intolerant of others, our society truly sickens me. Women walking the streets turning tricks as their kids lie asleep at home, politicians lying to their people to get elected and achieve their personal goal while saying a big F you to all those that voted for them, the wealthy firing constant lawsuits to get more money that they spend on themselves and it seems people in our society get wealthy by attacking others, ruining their lives and taking their wealth instead of earning it. If you look closely at our society today it is hard to see who the real sociopaths are. Which is worse, a person who feels nothing, constantly hurting others, or a person who chooses to turn their morals and ethics off to gain an extra buck by destroying someone else? It is true I lack empathy but I believe our society is lacking it as well. Anyway, yes I do respect some things; I said this before but I value an army's core beliefs, honour, integrity, strength and intelligence.
- March 11, 2009 at 12:41 AM
(HIM) Eric you made some good observations. And the paradoxal questions are always the hardest to conclude. When looking at society as a whole though you have to put things in perspective. For me I think of something my grandmother told me. Two wrongs don't equal a right. And justifying doing wrong just because there are other evil people in the world (plenty of them including polititions)doesn't make it ok. Did our society get into its current economical conditions because we made the right choices along the way or the wrong ones? Obviously we didn't make the right ones.... The REAL problem is accountability. And that is where it all begins. If we as individuals can't learn how important accountability is than neither will the polititions, banks, rich & prosperous, lawsuit chasers, attorneys,judges,or the common criminal. The double standard doesn't work. The people in "high places" don't have one set of rules & the rest of us another set. I agree with you, our society sickens me as well. However it is never going to improve without us taking the high road.
Neither is better/worse. Both should be accountable. A person who feels NOTHING such as a sociopath still KNOWS intellectualy when they are doing something wrong. And a person who turns off their morals also knows intellectualy they are doing something wrong. If a drunk driver gets in a car and kills someone, the alcohol is not an EXCUSE. They made a decision to drink the alcohol.
Although the alcohol might be the "reason" the accident happened in the first place it does not excuse it.
And I suppose that is why we struggle to understand the nurture/nature part of the sociopaths condition. And continue to ask so many questions. I find it very hard to DEFINE in words, especially since I am not the most articulate person to begin with what I "live" with. I have been enlightened by many of these post, particularly many of yours. However my son doesn't fit exactly into any one particular "mold". He is made up of many contradictions. He is both (worldly) VERY nieve, yet intelligent beyond his years. He is young, yet old. He can be sullen/withdrawn, yet without saying words he speaks volumes. Respects no one yet regards himself highly. Rules do not apply to him yet he holds others accountable to HIS rules. I want to believe that he is just troubled because of the early trama he had in his life. However his ability to lie and manipulate is way beyond his years. It seems to me that this isn't something he is in the process of "learning" how to master as he matures. It was already there within him. That brooding, dark side, personality, the cold "no one is home" stare in his eyes. A mothers absolute nightmare. If you believed that a persons eyes where the window to the soal, his leave alot to be desired. I don't know how someone just "checks out" like he does? On the upside his counscelor will point out that he hasn't broke the law yet or isn't on drugs. Wow....What I would like to hear from this counscelor for him to define what is GOING on with him. NOT what isn't.
- March 11, 2009 at 6:12 AM
My family has been dealing with a young ladie for about 4 years now. Wow what a long 4 years and it does not get better, just worse, she is the mother of my granddaughter now 2 years old and the latest is accusations of sexual abuse against my my son the babys dad , she is making these to her friends and she is making the same allegations against her own father to my sons friends and recently to my husband. How do I protect my son and granddaughter from this evil. I have tried to talk to her family and they will acknowledge she is a pathological liar, they have according to the sociopath been married to 20 different people each , had about 40 kids that have died horrible deaths, ect. but they find it hard to believe she would do this and accept her response that she never said no such things. I assure you the chaos she creates is unreal but this one is the worse, I can't walk away from this , I need help.
- March 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM
A question I'm thinking about today is: How do sociopaths excude so much control over people around them? I'm asking myself why I fell so hard for my husband initially when I should have seen so very many red flags that indicated his total narcisissm and lack of consideration. It seems that maybe their self absorption is like a black hole or a very high density gravitational pull. Because they are not putting out any empathy and don't have the back and forth flow of emotion that occurs when interacting with normal people, they just suck everyone in to the focus on THEM, it seems. I see so many people thinking my husband is just awesome and so worthy of praise and they have no idea he is so self absorbed; he cares only about others in terms of buttering them like bread for his own consumption. Initially, when I would question him about things that seemed unacceptably inconsiderate or lacked any understanding of how I might feel, he would "explain it away" with what I now clearly see as stories fabricated on the spot. Now I can hear him concocting stories literally as they flow from his lips. Anyway - I think alot of people mistake that totally calm, stoic, nonreactive demeanor for grace and wisdom, when really it's lack of empathy. And I think alot of people confuse their declarations of how much you mean to them as an indication that they value you for who you are as a person, when they actually only value you for what you provide to them. I can now clearly see that everything my husband says about me is actually about himself. He would never say "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings." Instead he would say, "I don't want you to leave." Time and again I see that I, as a seperate and equal individual, am simply not part of the equation for him.
As far as labeling, I think there is a huge continuum stretching from more or less narcissism in all of us to the extreme of total lack of empathy and desire to control in a psychopathic way, plus you can throw in there that lots of folks have overlapping personality disorders, so it is very hard to label someone strictly.
- March 11, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Seems that the sociopath personality is very good at drawing people in....And very keen at targeting just the right "fit" for the kind of person they are looking for to "compliment" their lives.
Think about it, as hard as it is for us to consider that an SP spends ENDLESS hours thinking of nothing more than meeting their own needs & pleasures. So no wonder they are good at profiling us.
And once in a close encounter with an SP I believe that not only the lies and deciet wear us down...That lack of them living in reality is a REAL part of it. After awile that "explaining it away" as you describe it can unravel your own interpitation of reality as well. In my opinion that is the worst thing that living with a sociopath does to you. They tend to turn everything back on you and you are standing there in disbelief wondering how this can possibly be happening day after day after day? It does mess with your own sense of "reality" because that is how they keep reeling you back in. After awile you aren't sure what is real and what isn't? You start questioning your own sanity. Our personal boundaries have been crossed so many times they become unclear and somewhat "fuzzy". I think what they do to
"work us over" before we know what hit us, THIS is what puts us in the "victim" role to begin with. I believe that many sociopaths look for people to marry or be in a relationship with that have a very nurturing personality. Again the label isn't important. What is important is healing from the toxic realtionship.
- March 11, 2009 at 5:20 PM
To the woman who is talking about protecting her granddaughter. Her family sounds like they are in denial. If she has been fooling them for all these years then you are not going to change that. Put your energy and focus on trying to protect your grand child to the best of your ability. And that will not be an easy task. children are the real tragedys in these cases. Hopefully your son is not still with her and can get either full custody or at least shared custody.
- March 11, 2009 at 5:27 PM
To the woman asking the question "How do sociopaths exude so much control over us?"... I don't know but I can tell you I know exactly how you feel... your post is like reading about my relationship... your husband or exhusband is exactly what my boyfriend was like!! Your statement about how he would never say "I'm sorry I hurt you" but "I don't want to leave you" is sooo true... now that I think about it he would say things like that too... make it about him... I do think alot of people mistake their calm, cool demeanor for wisdom, grace, and strength... you have made me see a few things clearer... thank you!
And to the next post... they totally mess with your sense of reality... you are left wondering how this can happen day after day after day... like you start to think you are crazy... and what you know to be true and factual... they twist and explain away and turn it around on you... and you start to believe it! And I am a smart, educated, attractive, caring, and normal person... and I fell for it... THANK GOD I CAN ACROSS THIS WEBSITE!!! or I might be still in the toxic relationship... reading your entries has made me feel more normal and it is nice to know others have experienced what I have gone through... because you can't explain it to friends or family... even though the few people I have told support me... they don't really "get it"... so THANKS!!!
- March 11, 2009 at 7:53 PM
I meant CAME...oops
- March 11, 2009 at 7:54 PM
My son does have 50/50 custody of his daughter and I just spoke with his attorney , because he was going for full custody, I was just informed that, because NO ONE will testify to the lies and manipulations the SP has committed (they are all glad she is out of their lives and want it to stay that way )it would be more or less in the courts eyes a "Character Assaination" The SP has agreed to a Psyhc eval. based on the recent DUI and gun charges she received, my thoughts are if her parents have been dealing with this since she was in 7th grade and she is now 20, she knows how to manipulate this also. This girl has lied about being pregnant with twins sons to one guy while pregnant with my grandaughter, so well he and his family built a nursery , fake ultrasound and all,this guy was devestated . she told one of her friends my youngest son was her's and I took him from her because he had a serious heart condition and I didn't think she could take care of him. She recently took a friend of hers to her now boyfriends home and tried to force her into a three-some , the young ladie escaped and called police but all charges were dropped because of a lack of evidence. The lies continue to mount and I am afraid that either she is going to physically hurt my granddaughter to , make one of the sexual allegations become reality or my granddaughter is going to be manipulated into becoming "a victim " , if you understand what I am trying to say. I have tried to invole CPS but unless I make a formal complaint against the SP's father or my own son, they can not help me . I know my grand daughter is not being sexually abused I know the SP is telling Lies that will eventually damage someone . But no one will help stop what looks like only I see. I understand to the rest of the world this whole situation is like some made for tv drama , any suggestions on what my son can do regaurding the evaluation of the SP ? Any suggestions on how to live a peaceful , "normal " life.
- March 12, 2009 at 8:41 AM
(Eric) HIM, I never tried to justifiy why I do wrong by saying others do wrong as well, I was simply stating a truth about our society. Regardless of how our society is or is to become, my behaviour will not alter. You did arise my attention when you stated that sociopaths are intellectual enough to know something is wrong, however without you personally experiencing it I don't think you have as good a grasp on the subject as you think. I only know something is "wrong" because of the ways others will react to it not because my conscience says this is bad, so I only know of what is right and wrong based on how others have reacted to specific situations. There have been several times I have made remarks or comments that others have been appalled by or offended and while saying it I did not know I was going to get that reaction. Sociopaths only know of right and wrong based on how our society deals with our actions. For example, if I were to steal an iPhone from someone I would only know it's "wrong" because it is illegal and would create a negative reaction from the person I stole it from. While doing the action and reflecting on it after there would be no point where I would think, that was wrong, I should not have done that. If you look at sociopaths and fidelity in relationships you'll notice that they have poor ties with others and often get divorced. This is because there is no punishment for cheating on someone or getting a divorce. When a sociopath becomes inconvenienced or just bored of someone they will often end the relationship. A way to get a feel for this is to think of everytime you have been mad at your partner or previous partners; you probably said something you didn't mean and it would bother you greatly if you were to suddenly dump them because later on you would feel terrible. When a sociopath is angered by a partner they will hurt them and possibly dump them becuase they will not regret it later, they do not say things they do not mean they tell the truth, which will most definitely strain the relationship if it doesn't immediately end it. A sociopath feels no obligation to have a closured break up, they would rather leave you in an emotional mess because they will feel empowered. Anyway, in conclusion, lol, comparing a normal person's wrongdoings to a sociopaths is quite different, although I may be aware that something is wrong, I will not understand it. I believe that most people would abide by the law and the 10 commandments even if there was no punishment based solely on the feeling of guilt afterwards, it is the guilt that stops most people not the law. The law is often an extra incentive not to do something but with sociopaths it is the sole reason not to do something. In regards to your son, I beleive I said this before but I will state my opinion again, I do not believe he is a sociopath. He most likely has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because of the tragedy he went through when he was younger. When most kids experience a tragedy at a young age they are emotionally ravaged by this night and day, until one day they refuse to continue feeling like s*** and they desensitize themselves. They usually lose empathy because they refuse to feel bad for themselves at any time and they will become very selfish and not want to have a strong influence from others. Having a strong relationship from others can create that same hurt they felt which haunted them and they cannot allow that possibility, instead they shut themselves off and push people away. I believe your son is going through this phase. It really is a matter of time before he will begin acting out in a more noticeable way and the time to help him is now. I believe to help him you must search and find what he fears most, intimacy. Although he on the surface refuse this, inside I believe this is what he truly wants. It is human for others to be close to other humans and that's why by pushing others away that person becomes miserable and lonely, although they may not show it. I believe he has his values mixed up and is living by values that are not important in life and only on a high school appearance. Relationships with girls will be one of two ways, he will either become like a sociopath in the sense that he will demean and disrespec girls and have no concern for a faithful relationship or he will become obsessed with someone and eventually ruin the relationship because of their "clingy-ness" and unstable relationship behaviour. It is a terrible idea to label your son a sociopath, for once you label someone a sociopath, you give up on them ever getting better because sociopathy cannot be cured. If the counsellor you have now is not working it may not be his fault, for counselling to work your son must share, and for your son to share, he must be comfortable with the counsellor. Perhaps, you could try a different counsellor. Also, another thing I would try is being very strict, yet loving. Do not allow him to win because you are sick of hearing the arrogant remarks he spews out because this is what he is trying to achieve. BE strict, but do not shut off you emotions towards him. That is my advice, you can take it or leave it and I will not be bothered either way.
- March 12, 2009 at 2:49 PM
(HIM)I'm sorry Eric I did not mean to imply that you personally were using being a sociopath to justify doing wrong. I was basically stating my observations/opinions. And in turn I learned something again from you. I would have not known that after you do something hurtful to someone, you learned more by their REACTION than by knowing this on an intelectual level. I mean I have heard enough times that the sociopath has no conscience and doesn't feel the guilt after doing wrong. But I guess I never made the connection that intelligence wasn't a factor in determining acceptable behaviour.
I have NOT labeled my son as a sociopath. Although I am deeply troubled by his symtoms I have to agree that I believe he initially went through this tragedy at a young age. Although in some way I knew that I was raising an "at risk" child I also had no instruction (other than some common sense)of what to do and what NOT to do. Being a thinker by nature I tend to over evaluate every thing I did do,(or didn't do) however that certainly doesn't mean I always did the right thing. He never had a father figure in his life growing up. As a young child the only male role model he had was an older brother. Because he was raised in a single mother household and because I am a nurturing type I guess the thing I find most perplexing now is that I honestly don't think he "feels" the "love" at this point in his life. He doesn't seem to get the fact that I do love him and have his best interest at heart. It truly seems that in the process of "turning off" his own emotions he has been unable to feel others emotions if that makes any sense.
After many closed doors in trying to get my son evaluated I FINALLY got an appointment for 2 months from now for a psyciatrist evaluation. Then in a sudden turn of events there was a cancellation and he was seen by this doctor. He spoke with both of us for about 45 min and took into consideration the paperwork/records from the counscelor he had been seeing. He gave him medication and because he wasn't given a full evaluation I am unsure of how to feel about this? Many of these drugs today do not work one in the same for teenagers as they do for adults. ALL of them come with a suicide risk factor. So you KNOW I am uncomfortable with that. BUT none of this is within my comfort zone. The very interesting thing is that NONE of these people, not the psyciatrist or the councelor seem to take into consideration the Post Tramatic disorder and to me that is the thing I think they should be concentrating on. I have been told that most psyciatrist have what THEY consider higher RESULTS by treating the outward systems rather than focusing on the inward suppressed issues. To a lay person like myself this doesn't make much sense. When I needed to grieve my husbands death I had to deal with all of the turmoil inside before I could even begin the process of grieving. They wanted to give me drugs to. But the drugs didn't correct the problem. FEELING the pain and dealing with it was the only way through it. But then again my pain wasn't suppressed as my sons might be.
And you are correct in the assumption that he is NOT sharing much when he goes to counceling. He pretty much doesn't want to be there. I believe the doctor is leaning towards bipolar. However I have a hard time seeing the "manic" part of bipolar in my son. He ouwtwardly shows signs of depression in my opinion but bipolar doesn't seem to fit?
- March 12, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Eric... thank you for explaining "how" you know something is "wrong"... by others reaction to things... this is so hard for us of conscience to understand... it is the law and nothing else that keeps you from doing "bad" things? Something as small as stealing? huh...that is crazy (I mean hard to grasp)!!! Thanks again for all of your insight!
- March 12, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Eric........ have you ever been victimized......car broken into, stolen from, cheated on,.....anything? did it affect you? most of us fell a sick feeling in our stomachs when something like that happens......anything?
- March 13, 2009 at 12:17 AM
(Eric) HIM I completely disagree with what you have heard about treating the outward systems rather than dealing with suppressed issues. I also do not think that most doctors do that, from my experience, psychiatrists tend to try and blame someone, leading to PTSD and try and deal with bottled up feelings and supressed issues. However, this way not be a general consensus but I believe doctors should focus on suppressed issues before anything else, after all that the root of all other symptoms. To answer your question, yes, the law is the only thing that stops be from committing illegal acts. To be honest if the law didn't restrict me, I would have without a doubt broken all 10 commandments. I never stop and reflect on my actions and feel guilty or anything like that, usually I regret not being more hurtful, or forgetting to say something that could have broken them down more. Now, I said I would be committing several illegal activities if the law didn't restrict me from it but I believe there is a massive differential between psychopaths and sadists and myself. Yes, I have been victimized, as everyone else has experienced atone point or another. It greatly affects me, I do not feel a sick feeling in my stomach, I am unimaginably enraged and immediately plan revenge. It is the principle that really bothers me not necessarily what was stolen or whatever; it is that the person thought they could do something wrong to me and have no consequence against them. This thought drives me to the edge. I cannot move on in life until I believe justice has been done and my justice is much, much worse than the law. I once had some kid kick my car about 3 years ago and I have not stopped ruining his life. I will not go into great detail about what I did but he was beaten up several times, was too scared to come to school, was robbed every time he tried to buy drugs, had both his cars broken into several times and had part of his house on fire. I don't know if this applies to all sociopaths but I am unable to forgive and forget anything, I believe that if the person did something then they thought about whatever they did, knew they were doing it to me, and continued to do it. Why would I forgive someone who knowingly tried to hurt me or cause harm to myself or someone else. There is no excuse for harming another and that is why I refuse to apologize and refuse to accept an apology. One my biggest pet peeves is someone apologizing to me becuase it just makes me relive whatever they did to me that is making them apologize. So to answer your question the only thing I feel when someone victimizes me is extreme anger and hate. I am not the person you want to screw with and people who know me are aware of that, and I am not trying to sound tough because I am not that big but I will ALWAYS win in the end without a doubt.
- March 13, 2009 at 3:44 AM
(ME) I'm going to start calling myself that so you know who the posts are from...
But if you are so enraged by an act of wrong doing against yourself then you must know how if feels when you "wrong" someone... you said it is the priciple that bothers you... I think that is how we feel as well... And you said "Why would I forgive someone who knowingly tried to hurt me or cause harm to myself or someone else"..... When you hurt someone physically or emotionally you are "knowingly" doing it... even purposly... so why do you think it is okay to do it then?? You are intelligent... and I get the whole no remorse thing... but you think different "rules" apply to you?
- March 13, 2009 at 4:54 AM
(HIM) Eric can you explain what the impact of what you were taught as a child growing up has made in your life? In other words I know that without conscience moral teachings might not mean much in how you act on a daily basis. I am still trying to wrap my brain around what you said about how you don't always know the wrong you have done until you see peoples reaction to it. Do you believe that the morals and principals,religious beliefs etc you were taught as a child have anything to do with who you are today? NOT that you follow them being without conscience but do you suppose that you would even be different if they were never taught to you as a child?
Did your parents back off at a certain point in your upbringing, knowing full well that something about you was "different" than other kids your age?
The not being able to forgive and forget thing. Is that something you had going on as a child as well? Did you hold grudges against family members when you were young and punish them for what they had done?
And if YOU were to give fair evaluation of your thinking in terms of revenge for when someone victimizes you.....Is it somewhat of a double standard? In other words do you feel like the person who victimizes you has it coming to them for what they did to you? Yet if you pick a victim more randomly in your life to hurt or destroy, why them? Is there any particular "system" involved in your process?
As a child were you able to recieve love even if unable to give it back? Or did you percieved those that loved you as a weakness? Do you feel that your parents failed you? Most of us when we reach your age or there abouts blame our parents for something if we had a disfunctional upbringing. However as we mature and work on this within ourselves, we are usually able to put it in a better perspective. Forgive, accept it, and move on.
In the big picture of things do you have a "plan" for what you would like to accomplish in life as far as career,marriage/relationship, kids etc?
And in referance to the kid that kicked your car....When will you be "done" winning? Does it have anything to do with his reaction to the torment you are inflicting? Or more so when you move on to someone else?
- March 13, 2009 at 5:26 AM
It's somewhat confusing that some sources say there is really no known cause of sociopathy and it's not curable, yet there always seems to be some degree of emotional abandonment in the early lives of these people. Anything from self absorbed parents to all out violence. I have read how the SP typically has to distance themselves from their own feelings for survival. I wonder if it is something like the fact that, if a child has no language before around 5 years old, they will never be able to use language because the neural pathways necessary for language are no longer available. (I learned this in Modern Languages class as an undergrad so I think it's accurate.) Could a similar thing happen with the emotional intelligence? There comes a point where the brain is no longer receptive and so they are left to function on these other factors like consequences and reactions that stimulate their minds but not through empathy? It makes sense that anger would still be in place - a drive to annihilate sources of harm to themselves. Alot of us have the ability to put up a wall when necessary and we learned it early on. I feel I can walk away from just about anything because my birth mother had to leave me at two weeks. Perhaps if the wall has to go up for a long enough time the brain just never learns empathy?
- March 13, 2009 at 12:26 PM
(Eric) I do not think it is okay for me to abuse others but others cannot abuse me. The rules and laws apply to everyone but I choose not to follow them. I am aware of how others feel when I break them down but I do not care about their feelings. I think the primary point is that I don't care if I hurt others but I care if others are trying to hurt me. I do not have a false sense of entitlement, if the world was fair then my actions would be reciprocated against me but it's not. I do not go out of my way to hurt random strangers, I wait until someone bothers me or tries to wrong me, and you'd be surprised how often that happens to everyone. Think of every time you have wanted to punch someone but didn't, the difference is that I will take action every time someone tries to take a shot at me; I honestly cannot allow someone to think they have an upper hand on me and I would never back down.
- March 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM