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SCSI vs. IDE: CDRW performance...
Posted by: Jim on: 12/08/2003 03:33 PM [ Print | 27 comment(s) ]
TBreak.com is taking a look at Plextor's 40/12/40S and trying to answer the question: "Are SCSI CDRWs worth it?"
While the Ultra SCSI interface didn
« MS-Linux? It Could Happen · SCSI vs. IDE: CDRW performance... · Monday Morning Speculation... »
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#25290 Posted on: 12/08/2003 08:36 PM
You mean they make IDE optical drives???
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#25291 Posted on: 12/08/2003 08:39 PM
[url="http://www.jimkirk.org"]jimkirk.org[/url] - Not a Myth any Longer. Just a Dad.
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#25292 Posted on: 12/08/2003 11:30 PM
I think that since the demise of easily available and frequently updated SCSI optical drives the PC market is worse off.
Waiting for the IDE drive is a right royal pain in the arse.
My workstation has 1 plextor CD-RW and 1 Toshiba DVD-ROM aboth 50pin SCSI. There are extremely quite in operation and have been flawless. No waiting on them.
I find it strange that there is a market for 3GHz CPU's, dual channel PC3200 DDR SDRAM motherboards chipsets (I'm writing this on a P4 2.6GHz laptop), yet the optical drives people use are making most of the waiting time on the system for the user. This needs to be addressed. Preumably some new SATA standard will cure the problem. But wait a minute there already is a solution SCSI! It works like a charm. Surely SCSI interfaces are cheaper to make than SATA?
Heres wishing for a nice DVD+-RW/RAM SCSI drive.....
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#25293 Posted on: 12/09/2003 12:22 AM
I actually have an older SCSI CD-ROM and CD burner (both Plextor), but don't use them because I couldn't get them to work as the first boot device in BIOS, like you can for IDE CD-ROMs. I wouldn't have switched, except that the WinXP installation floppies didn't work (doing an install on a completely clean machine). I don't know, maybe I just didn't have it set up right in the SCSI bios, but it seemed pretty straight-forward, except it didn't work. Anyone here have their SCSI CD working as the first bootable device, and/or has successfully performed an CD-driven OS install on a clean system?
Other than that, when I did have the SCSI CD burner installed, it was, bar none, the slowest in reaching a "ready to use" state aftering putting in a (regular, CD-ROM) disk, compared to the IDE CD drives in my other machines; although, I guess that could be because it was a burner, and would check for writable media types...
Sheik of SMP
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#25294 Posted on: 12/09/2003 01:37 AM
Does anyone else find it odd that dirve manufactures spend money developing and promoting newer/beter IDE technology, when scsi has been around for a ages?
SCSI is always promoted as "high end", "for server user", etc., and unfortunately it is priced as such.
AFAIK the main reason IDE stuff is cheaper, is that it is mass produced. Yeah, SCSI chips probably have a lot more instructions to implement, but it is not like they have to invent the chips, SCSI has been around for a while.
If manufactures would start mass producing SCSI, and drop IDE, then SCSI would be a reasonable price. They could still sell cheaper 7200RPM SCSI drives, then sell the 15K/longer warranty/larger cache/etc drives to server market.
IMHO, the main reason drive manufacturers continue keep the two lines very serperate is that this way it is easier to sucker the server market into paying the outrageous SCSI prices.
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#25295 Posted on: 12/09/2003 01:44 AM
why can't they step up to a 68 pin interface...and atleast u160 format...
clevo M570U intel 945 chipset t7600 cpu 4 gigs ram 160 gig HD 7200RPM
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#25296 Posted on: 12/09/2003 03:15 AM
The next SCSI standard called Serial Attached SCSI or SAS is supposed have controllers that will support both SAS and SATA drives since both standards use the same cables and only require firmware support on the host controller so in the future you could have your 15k RPM SCSI speed demon and your 350gig ATA storage giant on the same host controller. I'm hoping motherboard manufacturers negate the need for SATA controllers and just install SAS controllers on their mobos with dual use firmware for both kinds of drives.
2 x AMD Athlon MP 2800+, Tyan Thunder K7 S2462UNG, 1024MB Corsair DDR2100 Registered ECC RAM, 36.7GB Seagate X15-36LP, 18.4GB Seagate X15, 2x 36.7 GB IBM 36Z15, ATI AIW Radeon 9600 Pro, Creative Audigy Platinum Ex, Plextor 40/12/40 CD-RW, Lite-On LTD-163 16x DVD.
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#25297 Posted on: 12/09/2003 03:48 AM
Been using Plexies for years (see sig) and never had a problem using them as boot drives. Just enable it in the SCSI Bios, then tell it to boot CD first, same as you would IDE.
[color=blue][size=1]"The little BX that could"[/color][/size] P2BDS, email@example.com SL5QV|1GB Mosel Vitelic PC133|Herc GF2GTS Quadro Mod|UltraPlex 40TSi|Plexwriter 8/20|Audigy2|Sony DRU510A "If you give a man fire he will be warm for a day -but- If you set that man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life"
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#25298 Posted on: 12/09/2003 04:18 AM
For the longest time, my systems were all SCSI, nothing else. I had been using a Plextor 12/10/32S happily , but started playing around with video editing, and started creating SVCD's. 12x burning works, but I used a buddy's 40x burner, and saw the time saving.
I built a system for another friend and convinced him to go with Plextor, so I bought the 40x IDE, and loved the performance. I waited for Plextor to update their SCSI line, but alas, that took too long. I finally broke down and went IDE on the CD-Drives. Amazing the cost savings. Also, there are no SCSI DVD burners on the market except for Pioneers DVD Authoring Drive that is still $800 or more. I've got the Plextor 708A 8x DVD+R burner, which rocks.
I've owned the Plextor 2X, Plex 12/20, PlexWide (68-pin SCSI), Plex 8/2/20 CD-RW, Plex 12/10/32S, and still have them all sitting in a pile somewhere or in use in other systems around the house. That was quality construction. I still think SCSI is the way to go, but if you compare prices, the performance just isn't worth it. In a production server, though, only SCSI.
Oh, and Kaburo, I have never had a problem booting SCSI. With the newer BIOSes, just select SCSI as a boot device, be sure to boot to CD first and be sure to scan the SCSI ID of the boot CD device in the SCSI BIOS. With Adaptec controllers this is done with the CTRL- A command during POST.
MSI KT8 Master2-FAR|2x Opteron 250|2x 1GB reg. ECC DDR|On-Board SATA|1x WD 200GB 7200|2x WD 250 GB 7200 SATA|nVidia GeForce 6800GT|Plextor PX-712A DVD+-RW|Liteon 52X CD-RW|
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#25299 Posted on: 12/09/2003 05:57 AM
NOT a WarMonger
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#25300 Posted on: 12/09/2003 06:59 AM
i was a scsi fanatic until recently
i had scsi cdrw and cdrom and dvd rom, and disks
i dumped them because
1. i could get a 52x cdrw with burn proof for under 40$
2. i didnt want the noise and heat of 15k rpm hard drives anymore
3. could get rid of the scsi card
back before BURN PROOF, scsi cdrw's were king
IDE was pretty unreliable for burns, my 8x plextor i820 owned in its day, i replaced it with a sanyo 24x scsi w/burn proof
but now adays, there is no advantage to scsi at all
I dont even buy the multitasking thing, as i have done both recently, and i have a single cpu system now
I can multitask just fine thank you
you just cannot justify the price of the plextor scsi writer
oh, and to the guy who couldnt boot from his scsi gear...
2 words: USER ERROR...
#25301 Posted on: 12/09/2003 07:06 AM
I have a 12x plextor writer and a Ultra Plex 40 reader in my home system... when I find that 6 to 7 minutes is too long to wait to burn a disk (which I do maybe once every 3 months) Then I'll still upgrade to a Plextor 40 writer in SCSI...
I have no IDE in my box and don't want any... at work I use a dual Xeon workstation, IDE HD, IDE DVD and USD 2.0 Sony DVD burner... I can feel this box slow down when I'm burning disks, etc. That never happens at home.
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#25302 Posted on: 12/09/2003 07:44 AM
But, but, but ...
Fast Wide SCSI is only one-third as fast as USB 2.0!!!! (If prompted, enter dummy info for age and zip.)
SuperMicro X7DCA-L-O (mATX) | 2x Intel Xeon L5420 | 6x 2GB Kingston Reg DDR2-667 | Intel G2 160GB SSD + 2x WD2002FYPS + Seagate 4TB | GalaxyTech 8800GT HDMI| 2x Asus MS228H | Win7 Ultimate x64
#25303 Posted on: 12/09/2003 08:58 AM
Fast? Where do you think speed comes into play here?
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#25304 Posted on: 12/09/2003 09:38 AM
Heh, I wonder what that person would think then of FireWire800 in RAID 5 config'...
"If ah give 'er any more serial links, Capt'n, she'll bloooww !..."
Xeon - Experiment: 2x SL6EP 2.4/400@3450+|PC-DL 1.04-B05 BIOS1009|2Gb GeIL Ultra-X PC3200 2-2-2-5| Gigabyte 6600GT Fanless Heatpipes|silent Samsung HD's|Antec Titan550|stock voltages|IWT+Agilent cooler| AMD - Experiment: Opteron165 email@example.com CCBWE 0551WPMW|stock heatpipe HSF|HP/nVidia QuadroFX4500| Antec TPII 550W|Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe|4Gb Corsair TwinX2048-4000PT|2x Dell 2405FPW's|more 2 come..|
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#25305 Posted on: 12/09/2003 09:29 PM
SCSI all the way to hell baby! I will die with my scsi drives in my hands. I just don't see how you can blow hundreds of dollars on a computer and then cripple it with IDE harddrives, optical drives and other slow devices. I'd rather save up and do things the right way. In any case save money if you will, but IDE is still not as smooth as SCSI, and until SATA the limit on number of devices per channel and the whole Master / Slave thing was a big turn off. I will look at SATA but probably hold off for Serial SCSI. I run RAID 1 and All SCSI devices except for a floppy drive (an am looking for a scsi one of those too) so maybe I'm a bit zealous? I however see it as a good investment. SCSI gear for me lasts and lasts and I can multitask like no tomorrow with my all scsi setup....try that with IDE drives (burning, playing games etc all at the same time).
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#25306 Posted on: 12/09/2003 10:19 PM
Really? Try this:
1. Install both IDE drives (CD-ROM drive, CD-R drive, or DVD-ROM, DVD-R) onto the same IDE chain
2. Copy directly from CD-ROM to CD-R (or DVD-ROM to DVD-R)
Your point is disproven. Now for another test:
1. install two CD-R or DVD-R drives onto the same IDE chain
2. Load up the project you're mastering (be it an audio mix CD, a video DVD, or a software product)
3. Burn to both drives at the same time
Again, your point is further disproven. SCSI is still king, but unfortunately SCSI DVD-R drives come only at the Authoring drive price level, and Authoring media is still ~$10 a pop.
My configuration: Many hopelessly outdated SMP boxen. Any system which is shipping is already obsolete! u r lame if u insist on trying 2 b l337 by abbrev evythng u type when asking ppl 4 hlp. kiddie speak is teh sux. ppl. plz stop teh kiddie speak. thx. hint: aol kiddie speak is not cool, it just makes people not want to read your post.
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#25307 Posted on: 12/09/2003 11:24 PM
works fine...
why the hell would anyone want to do this???
Im not a software pirate where i need to be writing to multiple cd's at a time while unraring and compiling things simultaneously
actually your point is flawed, in that anyone who wants to do such thing would not be using consumer grade equipment, most likely a BUSINESS (or high end pirate operation) and can afford the money for a scsi drive if needed
Look, i have been on both sides of the fence on this issue, I just RECENTLY switched over from SCSI to IDE
and I can tell you, I notice NO difference whatsoever in optical drive performance
I had the pextor ultraplex 40 max which was supposedly the DAE king, my IDE CD-ROM/DVD-ROM rips just as fast
Burns are just as fast (faster, as the writer writes at 48x) and i spent under $60 for BOTH my drives, compared to HUNDREDS
I dont buy the multitasking thing, unless you have some computer from the STONE AGES or a K6-2 or something, you can multitask just fine with IDE
IDE has come a long way people, some of you scsi elitists who left the IDE world back before ATA/33 may want to take another peek, its not PIO mode hell anymore, IDE actually works pretty good, and todays IDE drives outperform most ultra2 and some ultra160 equipment
Ive been there, done that, and you can have it with the price, heat and noise, i will take IDE for my home system thank you
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#25308 Posted on: 12/09/2003 11:32 PM
im gonna have fun with this one...
this is my favorite excuse of all time
playing a game while burning a CD...
you go girl
you go...
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#25309 Posted on: 12/10/2003 03:10 AM
Besides the really sarcastic tone of your post nipster there are a few things that I'd like to comment on.
For one, I don't care if I pay more for my scsi components - They work together well, and I don't see
how it should be a bad thing if I pay more for SCSI and get a system (SCSI) that is
1) Hot pluggable - try that with your IDE optical drive without some sort of 3rd party removeable bay.
(Yes I know SATA can do this, but most devices aren't SATA yet.)
2) Yes I DO play games / do anything I wish without any issues while burning a CD. I also can use my
harddisks not worry about CPU utilization going through the roof...(Imaging the OS via V2i protector, etc)
3) My harddrives have a 5 Year warranty. Do you think they would give out this sort of warranty for your IDE
drives? I think not.
4) I did say I was enthusiastic in my love of SCSI devices, why jump down my throat? I didn't say they are
horrible, I just said that for an expensive computer to have these devices just doesn't make sense unless
you don't care if you have the best. I want the best, so I bought the best, why the comment about paying
my minimum CC payment? That's not relavent if you have already put as much time and money into a system like
the one I own. No, I'm not going to buy a 32 processor Power Dome server, but for my personal machine I want
a kickass machine, not a half hearted attempt at one.
Nothing wrong with IDE as long as you are satisfied with the compromises your are making....
Tyan Tiger MPX w/ Dual 1800+ Radeon AIW 9600 Pro, 4 Atlas 10K III SCA HD's, LSI Elite 1600 in Raid 0.
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#25310 Posted on: 12/10/2003 04:40 AM
this is going to be my last post on the subject
there are alot of misconceptions going around, and who be it for me to tell people how to spend money on their home PC system
I just think its foolish at this point to spend the premium on SCSI components for a home system unless you are some sort of video professional working out of the home and actually NEED the speed of scsi drives, or you have some other actual need other than "it multitasks a little better", which is not a quantifiable arguement. It will multitask "a little better" if you have a decent cpu and ammount of ram, no matter what your disk subsystem
when I was hitting my IBM 15k 8 meg cache u160 hard drives really hard, things did slow down sometimes
when I am hitting my new IDE 8 meg cache / 7200 rpm hard drives really hard, things DO slow down
any one noticeably more IDE vs SCSI? not noticeablly more than the other, really. Im talking exact same system (P4 2.8C / 1 gig cas 2.5 PC 800 DDR) with different sets of drives
I needed more capacity, and my 3x 36 gig scsi drives were maxed, and at $250 per 36 gig drive for additional storage, i decided that was not the route to go. I bought a single 160 gig 7200 rpm ata 133 for $80 after rebate (3 year warranty too) and 2x 80 gig 7200 which i got from newegg for less than 1 36 gig scsi drive
im not trying to be sarcastic, im just trying to see how you can justify certain things. dont take this personal, its not meant as a personal attack on you or anyone
im gonna bite on this. What hot swap chassis are you using??? Scsi by definition or design is NOT hot swap. SCA scsi DEVICES are, but require special drive chassis which they only put in servers, or special hot swap chassis.
To my knowledge, they make NO (none) hot swap CDRW, CDROM, or DVD ROM consumer level products, and i cant see any way to adapt 50 pin scsi to SCA. Things may exist, but i have not seen it done. SCA is also 16 bit, and every optical drive except the plextor 40 max WIDE version is 50 pin 8 bit, so by adapting such a thing, you just killed your scsi chain down to 8 bit 20 megabit fast/narrow scsi. If possible...
I dont know a whole hell of alot about serial ATA, but i have heard it is hot swap with some caviats, someone else im sure can chime in on this one, but get this, IIRC, most serial ATA drives are just regular IDE drives with a serial ATA bridge chip controller on the PCB
i have heard this before, but i just cant see it happening, not because its not possible, but for practicality sake, why WOULD you want to do this? Is your life so busy you are doing 10 things at once? I guess my life isnt hectic enough to realize all these things
You get what you pay for. And as i have said before, SCSI drives are built to higher standards, and such have longer warranty. FOR THE MOST PART. Seagate has dropped the warranty of their barracuda scsi drives to 3 years, only the top end 10 and 15k rpm drives have 5 year warranties
That said, do you honestly see yourself still having these drives 5 years down the road? Taking a current inventory of things i own, computerwise. The ONLY thing I still have from 5 years ago is my keyboard and case (supermicro SC750, kick ass case).
I know the warranty is great, just in case, but to justify a purchase based on a warranty is flawed considering you can buy 3 or 4 IDE drives of larger capacity for the price of 1 36 gig scsi drive. (and you can still get them with 3 year warranty if you look hard)
im not trying to jump down your throat, thats not my intention, i am just trying to see how you can justify some of these claims
SCSI is great, im a long time fan, but i think with prices the way they are now, and performance levels of IDE coming up to almost PAR with SCSi, its hard to justify the price anymore
ESPECIALLY on a CDRW, as this article was originally about
this is my last post on this, if i offended anyone, that is not my intention, i just think some bogus claims have been made, and having been on both sides of the SCSI/IDE fence for a long time, i think I am a pretty good judge of them both
Finally, it IS your money, do with it what you want, but IMHO, at this time, unless you NEED it, or its going to be in a production server, put an IDE drive in it
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#25311 Posted on: 12/10/2003 09:27 AM
Hi - if you really want the 'best' SCSI CDRW, it's the late lamented Yamaha FI . . .
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#25312 Posted on: 12/10/2003 04:54 PM
I do agree with you nipster about cost/price/storage , those are the hard facts. so if you are reading, after your last post on the issue, I realize that there are merits to having some slower IDE drives on your system for backup, and even for burning cd's. Where I see IDE in my system is a 200 GB Maxtor drive which I use as a backup storage device. Not as good as a 200 GB tape drive, but I don't have $3000 to spend on a LTO drive ofthat capacity. So I lied...just a little. I do have some IDE in my system. I still stand by my point that you will see a huge difference in performance, hence non of my data or OS is on the IDE drive, jus a full image of the system. For cheap huge drives, yes IDE is currently there. Oh and BTW my Maxtor U160 10K rpm drives (4 x 36 in a Raid0 array) are still in my system after over 3 years....going strong except for one I RMA'd to maxtor. Maxtor got me an advance replacement at no charge in 2 days! I any case no I won't take it personally but the flames get hot I think when we start talking about money and performance...always does!
Hope to keep posting, there are so many boards to post to on this Net thingy..
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#25313 Posted on: 12/10/2003 10:22 PM
Even a hobbiest writing shareware where she or he makes the software available on CD will care about writing multiple CDs concurrently. I care VERY much as I am about to begin shipping two software products and will be building a box to write CDs rapidly. SCSI is still king in this regard, and will remain so until SATA solves the multitasking and # of device issues.
My configuration: Many hopelessly outdated SMP boxen. Any system which is shipping is already obsolete! u r lame if u insist on trying 2 b l337 by abbrev evythng u type when asking ppl 4 hlp. kiddie speak is teh sux. ppl. plz stop teh kiddie speak. thx. hint: aol kiddie speak is not cool, it just makes people not want to read your post.
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#25314 Posted on: 12/11/2003 10:43 AM
I think Nipster touched on this, but I will re-iterate. For a particular need, SCSI makes sense. File Servers, database servers, etc. Or the situation you are describing, SCSI is great. Build an external case with 4 or 5 SCSI CDRWs, pop an old 2940UW into your system and go to town. But, there is no reason to update the HDD sub-system.
Believe me, I was all SCSI 2 years ago. The first thing I did when installing a new motherboard was to disable both IDE channels in the BIOS. IDE was a CPU hog and didn't need to be on my system. Well I got into video editing and needed more disk space, lots more. Soon I was looking at needing a "whopping" 100 GB of space. That was 3x 36GB 10k SCSI drives. For less than half the price of those 3 drives I was able to buy 2x 80GB drives and an IDE Raid controller to set up a RAID 0 set. I could use the money saved from the drives and buy a major upgrade in CPU and motherboard and still come out ahead.
On a side note, anyone know of a decent SCSI DVD writer? My wife "volunteered" me for a little project. I am creating a highlights DVD for my son's football team. The video will consist of at least an hour of video. All of the players are getting a video at the awards banquet. That's 23 DVDs to burn. On top of that, she offered copies of all the games (9 of them for the season) on DVD, also (1 game per DVD). If all the players want a game set, I'm looking at 207 DVDs to burn plus the highlights video. A burning tower sounds good right about now! (;p)
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Issue title: Mental Health
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Authors: Krupa, Terry | Kirsh, Bonnie | Cockburn, Lynn | Gewurtz, Rebecca
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Abstract: Background: Stigma has been identified as an important barrier to the full community participation of people with mental illness. This study focuses on how stigma operates specifically within the domain of employment. Objectives: The purpose was to advance the development of theory related to the stigma of mental illness in employment to serve as a guiding framework for intervention approaches. Method: The study used a constructivist grounded theory methodology to analyze over 500 Canadian documents from a diverse range of sources and stakeholders, and interviews with 19 key informants. Findings: The paper develops several key components central to the processes of stigma in the work context. These include the consequences of stigma, the assumptions underlying the expressions of stigma, and the salience of these assumptions, both to the people holding them and to the specific employment situation. Assumptions are represented as varying in intensity. Finally specific influences that perpetuate these assumptions are presented. Implications: The model suggests specific areas of focus to be considered in developing intervention strategies to reduce the negative effects of stigma at work.
Journal: Work, vol. 33, no. 4, pp. 413-425, 2009
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Punjab on the west, Uttar Pradesh on the southeast, China on the east, Haryana on the southeast, and Jammu and Kashmir on North border the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh. It extends from the latitudes 30°22'40" North to 33°12'40" North and longitudes 75°45' 55" East to 79°04' 20" East.
The entire region of Himachal Pradesh is hilly with the Altitude ranging from 350 meters to 7000 meters above sea level. Forming a part of the Punjab Himalayas, the altitude increases from west to east and from south to north. Geographically, Himachal Pradesh can be divided into three distinct regions, the Shivalik or Outer Himalayas, middle Himalayas or inner Himalayas, and Greater Himalayas or the Alpine zone. The Lower Himalayas include the districts of Hamirpur, Kangra, Una, Bilaspur, and the lower parts of Solan, Sirmaur, and Mandi commonly known as the Shivalik Hills. The altitude in this region ranges from 350 meters to 1,500 meters. The middle Himalayas comprise the region between the altitudes of 1,500 meters and 4,500 meters. The districts under this region are parts of Sirmaur, Mandi, and the upper parts of Kangra, Shimla, and Chamba. The Greater Himalayas or the alpine zone is at an altitude of 4,500 meters and above. The region is cut across by the river Sutlej and comprises the Kinnaur and Pangi tehsils of Chamba, and some part of Lahaul and Spiti.
The climate of Himachal Pradesh, depending on the altitude, varies at different places from semi tropical to semi arctic. Winters (October to February) are very severe and heavy snowfall is recorded during this Season. April to June is delightful and comfortable at the higher altitudes, though on the lower hills, this season can have more humidity than usual. July to September is the time for rainfall and the entire region becomes green and fresh with streams swelling and Springs replenished.
Out of the total area of Himachal Pradesh, 63.8% is under forest cover. The major flora mushrooming the state include deodar, kail, chil, spur, oak, etc. Due to its unique geographical location and divergent climatic conditions, the state has a wide variety of fauna species available. According to some estimates, there are around 359 species of mammals, 1,200 species of birds, and more than 20,000 species of insects in the state. To save the unique wildlife of the state from extinction, the government has established two national parks and a few wildlife sanctuaries in the state.The earliest known inhabitants of the region were tribals called Dasas. Later, Aryans came and they assimilated in the tribes. In the later centuries, the hill chieftains accepted suzerainty of the Mauryan Empire, the Kushanas, the Guptas and Kanuaj rulers. During the Mughal period, the Rajas of the hill states made some mutually agreed arrangements which governed their relations. In the 19th century, Ranjit Singh annexed/subjugated many of the states. When the British came, they defeated Gorkhas and entered into treaties with some Rajas and annexed the kingdoms of others. The situation more or less remained unchanged till 1947. After Independence, 30 princely states of the area were united and Himachal Pradesh was formed on 15th April, 1948. With the recognition of Punjab on 1st November, 1966, certain areas belonging to it were also included in Himachal Pradesh. On 25th January, 1971, Himachal Pradesh was made a full-fledged State. The State is bordered by Jammu & Kashmir on North, Punjab on West and South-West, Haryana on South, Uttar Pradesh on South-East and China on the East.
Geographical Area [1991] 55,673 sq. km
Average Rainfall 1469 mm
State Animal Musk Deer
State Bird Monal
State Language Hindi & Local Dialects
Major Rivers Sutlej, Beas, Ravi, Parbati
Major Lakes Renuka, Rewalsar, Khajjiar, Dal, Beas Kund, Dasaur, Brighu, Prashar, Mani Mahesh, Chander Tal, Suraj Tal, Kareri, Sreolsar, Gobind Sagar, Na
Shimla was once part of the Nepalese kingdom, and called Shyamala, another name for the goddess Kali, but Shimla never gained any fame until it was first 'discovered' by the British in 1819. Three years later, the first 'British' house was erected, and by 1864 Shimla had become the summer capital of India. After the construction of the Kalka to Shimla railway line in 1903, Shimla really boomed. Following independence, Shimla was initially the capital of the Punjab, then it became the capital of Himachal Pradesh. Today, Shimla is a lovely, sprawling town, set among spectacular, cool hills, with plenty of crumbling colonial charm. It has very good facilities, although accommodation, particularly in the high season, is expensive.
This museum opens daily except on Mondays and public holidays. It is located 2.5 kms west of the scandal point. The entry is free. It has got a good collection of statues, coins, photos and other items from all over the state as well as outside it. It has also got a library which houses many historical books and manuscripts.
On the Observatory Hills is located Viceregal Lodge which is called also called Rashtrapati Niwas. This magnificent building was the residence of the British Viceroy Lord Dufferin. The palatial building was the venue for many important decisions which changed fate of the sub-continent. This lodge was completed in 1888. It is said that every brick for the building was carried by mules. This is a six storey building and is surrounded by well maintained gardens and lawns. A cafe is also there. The lodge has now been converted into Institute of Advanced study. The lodge is further 2 kms from state museum.
Close to the Viceregal lodge is the Himalayan Aviary or the Himalayan Bird Park. This park has very good collection of birds found in Himachal such as Himalayan monal, pheasants, peafowl's and national bird of India, the peacock.
In 1846-1857 was built the second oldest church of Northern India. The Christ Church overlooks the ridge and is one of the landmarks of Shimla. The clocks on Christ Church were added later and none of them are functional now. The Church looks very beautiful with the stained glasses fitted on the windows. The other church of Shimla is just below the Central Telegraph Office and is Known as Michael's Cathedral.
This temple is dedicated to the monkey God Hanuman. The temple is located at an height of 2455 m and is the highest point of Shimla Ridge.
The lower Bazaar in Shimla is scene of Fanatic activities. Also known as the Subzi Mandi, the place is a maze of twisting roads and winding paths. Both sides of the steep lanes is covered by food stalls and other shops which include the dry fruit shops, the garments shops, imported goods shop one can get practically anything he can think of. Then comes the Mall one of the most famous places in Shimla. This place is again full of showrooms and some big names also have their showrooms here. A stroll in the evening on the mall has a pleasure of its own. The Mall is surprisingly clean. Just beyond the Ridge is the Lakkar Baazar. As the name indicates Lakkar baazar is market place for the wooden items. Here one can purchase souvenirs and many decorative items which are very tastefully carved.
Located in amidst Deodar forests is Sarahan which was the ancient capital of the mighty Brusher. The place provides some good opportunities for trekking and some spectacular view of the Ranwin Village and the Bashal peak.
This place is not particularly important to spend a night but there are few things which must not be missed. In the ancient times Rampur was on the trade route to Tibet. It was also part of the Bushahr empire which spread till Kinnaur. This place has the Padam Palace built in 1925. One can not enter the palace but can roam around the well maintained lawns and gardens which are flanked by a Hindu temple. The trail along the river is a place to be. The whole area is a maze of lanes, shops and temple like Sri Sat Nahan temple. In the month of November a Fair called the Lavi Fair is organised at Rampur.
This small village is famous for the hot water sulphur springs. Unlike the springs in Manikaran or Manali, these springs are not properly 'developed'. But their setting is very beautiful. The village is very relaxed and peaceful.
In the winters Kufri attracts ski loving people. Although it is still the primary sightseeing point in and around Shimla, the dirty roads, the haggling guides have found ill favor with the modern tourists.
Chail is hikers paradise. Chail was the summer capital of Maharaja of Patiala. The area is spread over three hills. One has the village of Chail, the other has the Snow View mansion and the third one has the Palace cum hotel of Chail.
In recent times Kasauli has developed as alternate accommodation for Shimla. It is 12 kms from Shimla on the way to Kalka. Kasauli has been coming up as a side trip from Shimla. It has some of the great walks. The walk to Sanawaris very pleasing and full of natural beauty. Sansar has the potential to become another hill station in the area. Nature has provided abundance of beauty and scenes.
Solan is the district headquarters and is the home to Meaken Brewery. Solan has been tried to develop as a hill station but it lacks the charm and grace of Shimla as the scenic beauty is totally absent.
This is the former residence of British Commander in Chief and was taken over by the Himachal Tourism to be converted into a hotel. This lovely building was burnt down in 1994. The White flower hall is located in Chharabra 13 kms from Shimla. Cedar Hill Lodge resides in this village called Chharabra
Narkanda is basically a transit point between Shimla and Rampur. This place is famous for Hiking and Skiing but not always only during season.
Mashobra is a small village just 11kms from Shimla which has a fair every May at Sipi. The lovely trail around takes to the Shiva temple. Nearby is Craignano which has some pleasant walk and trails. 15 Kms further North comes another small village Naldehra. This place is famous for one of the oldest and highest golf courses in India. Right in the middle of the Golf Course is the Mahunag temple. There are good accommodation and transport facilities at all these places.
After Indian Independence, a Union Territory of Hill states was created. It primarily constituted of hill states around Shimla. On November 1, 1966 Punjab Hill areas were merged into Himachal as part of reorganization of Punjab. Himachal Pradesh became a full fledged state of the Republic of India on January 25, 1971. Himachal Pradesh has been on the path of progress since Independence. The literacy rate of the state is 63% now and is improving every decade. The population has almost stabilized at about 5 million, thanks to high literacy and effective family planning programs. Every village in the state has electricity and drinking water now. Many young men from Himachal serve the Indian Army and have played significant role in the National defense. Dharamsala has a war memorial dedicated to the memory of those who lost their lives for their country. Himachal has one state university at Shimla, namely, Himachal Pradesh University. There is a Regional Engineering College (REC) at Hamirpur that has students from all over India. In addition, there is a Medical College at Shimla.
Himachal is literally a power house when it comes to hydro-electricity. The state has many dams that harness the hilly rivers to generate electric power. The electricity is used by farmers in Punjab, Haryana and by the industries in the northern plains. The beautiful mountain state of Himachal Pradesh (HP) was originally formed as a centrally administered territory on April 15, 1948 by the integration of 30 odd Punjab hill provinces. In 1951, it became a Part C State under a Lieutenant Governor, with a Legislative Assembly of 36 members and a Cabinet of three ministers. Till October 1966, HP consisted of only six hill districts—Mahasu, Mandi, Chamba, Sirmaur, Bilaspur and Kinnaur. In November 1966, it was enlarged with the inclusion of some of the hilly areas of Punjab—Shimla, Kangra, Kullu, Lahaul, Spiti, Nalagarh tehsil of Ambala district, and areas of Hoshiarpur and Gurdaspur districts. HP was organised into 10 districts and declared a state on January 25, 1971, with Shimla as its capital. In 1972-73, the state was re-organised into 12 districts—Bilaspur, Chamba, Hamirpur, Kangra, Kinnaur, Kulu, Lahaul & Spiti, Mandi, Shimla, Sirmaur, Solan and Una.
After Indian Independence, a Union Territory of Hill states was created. It primarily consituted of hill states around Shimla. On November 1, 1966 Punjab Hill areas were merged into Himachal as part of reorganization of Punjab. Himachal Pradesh became a full fledged state of the Republic of India on January 25, 1971. Himachal Pradesh has been on the path of progress since Independence. The literacy rate of the state is 63% now and is improving every decade. The population has almost stabilized at about 5 million, thanks to high literacy and effective family planning programs. Every village in the state has electricity and drinking water now. Many young men from Himachal serve the Indian Army and have played significant role in the National defense. Dharamsala has a war memorial dedicated to the memory of those who lost their lives for their country. Himachal has one state university at Shimla, namely, Himachal Pradesh University. There is a Regional Engineering College (REC) at Hamirpur that has students from all over India. In addition, there is a Medical College at Shimla. Himachal is literally a power house when it comes to hydro-electricity. The state has many dams that harness the hilly rivers to generate electric power. The electricity is used by farmers in Punjab, Haryana and by the industries in the northern plains.
WILD LIFE: Himachal Pradesh is the most beautiful state having different type of terrain, climate and heights. Which has given birth to variety of vegetation, wild animals and birds at different places and levels. The mountain ranges in the state rise from 400 meters to 6800 meters which have variety of forests like sal, rhododendron, oak, fir, deodar, birch, and pines. These forests shelter for large number of wild animal and birds. Himachal has two national parks and 29 wild life sanctuaries. The state abounds in wildlife among which some rare species like the musk deer, ibex, thar, Himalayan brown bear and snow leopard are still found. The rivers offer ideal fishing grounds for trout and masheer. Many of these sanctuaries located at higher ranges ,though not easily accessible, having marvelous trekking routes and also have facilities for camping in the wild. The gushing streams fascinating alpine pasture and high snow covered peaks provide an eternal pleasure to the tourists.
|Name of Sanctuary
|Shikari Devi
|Musk Deer, Barking Deer Goral, Black Bear ,Monal
|Goral, Barking Deer, Black Bear ,Kalij
|Serow, Musk Deer, Monal Black Bear, Barking Deer
|Goral,Sambhar, Red Jungle Fowl, Barking Deer
|Goral, Musk Deer, Panther Koklas, Black Bear
|Lippa Asrang
|Brown Bear, Ibex, Chakor Black Bear, Tragopan
|Chitkul, Rakcham
|Bharal, Musk Deer, Monal Black Bear
|Rupi Bhaba
|Snow Leopard, Goral, Monal,Koklas, Musk Deer.
|Musk Deer, Black Bear, Goral.
|Black Bear, Snow Partridge Musk Deer, Monal,Koklas
|Thar, Brown Bear ,Monal Snow Leopard, Musk deer
|Thar, Goral, Ibex, Brown Bear Monal, Black Bear
|Goral, Serow,Black Bear,Monal Chakor,Koklas
|Samber,Cheetal, Barking Deer, Leopard, Wild Boar, Partridge
|Ibex, Thar, Musk Deer, Monal Leopard, Brown Bear, Koklas
|Sachutaun Nalah
|Musk Deer, Brown Bear, Thar Snow Leopard, Black Bear
|Samber, Wild Boar, Rhesus Barking Deer
|Govind Sagar
|Water Birds like Ducks Egrets
|Gamgul Siya
|Thar, Brown Bear, Goral, Black Beer, Koklas, Monal
|Kalatop Khajjiar
|Serow, Goral, Leopard, Black Bear, Barking Deer
This Sanctuary which lies between Dalhousie and Chamba at the northwestern extremity Daula Dhar was recognized as a game sanctuary on July 1, 1949. Dalhousie-Chamba Road runs through the sanctuary, which contains about 15 villages. This reserve covers an area of 3069 hectares. Its altitude varies from 1185 meters to 2768 meters (3910 ft-9134 ft.) The terrain is steep and typical of the Outer Himalayas. It is drained by several tributaries of the Ravi River which lies just to the north.
The trekking season in Himachal Pradesh runs from mid-May to mid-October. The Himachal Pradesh tourist office has a brochure on trekking which briefly details a number of treks in the state. They also have three excellent large scale maps of Himachal Pradesh, invaluable for trekkers. In Manali, there is a Department of Mountaineering & Allied Sports which can advise you on trekking possibilities in the states and also on the numerous unscaled peaks. No trekking permits are required. In the lower country in the Kullu or Kangra valleys, or around Shimla, there are many rest houses and villages. The trekking Guide published by the HPTDC (Himachal Pradesh Tourism Development Corporation) lists 136 and more over 5000 metre high. The majority of them are unclimbed. It's virgin territory for mountaineers. The Shimla-Kinnaur region offers some exciting trekking opportunities viz. a) Shimla to Kulu via Jaloni Pass (66 kms). b) Shimla to Kulu via Bashleo Pass (56 kms). c) Sarahen to Sangla (106 kms).
Golfing : Nine hole Golf Course at Naldhera, 23 km from Shimla. Fishing : Trout fishing is available at Rohru 110 km from Shimla and at Seema 1 km from Rohru. Mahaseer fishing is available at Tattapani 43 km from Shimla. Licence fee Rs.10 per day per person. Licencing Authority :- Assistant Director-Fisheries, Khaline, Shimla (H.P.), Tel : 4732 & 6985. Skiing : HPTDC organises ski courses of 7 days and 15 days duration at Narkhanda (65 km) eve quipment It also has some of the most thrilling and challenging trekking and mountaineering opportunities in the world, along with Skiing, Kayaking, Para gliding and Hang-gliding.
Gaya : Height 6794 meters in Lingti valley spiti
Leo-Pargial : Height 6791 meters in Kinnaur district
Mount-Parbati: Height 6633 in Lahaul- spiti
Mani rang : Height 6554 meters in Kinnaur district
Mulkila : Height 6517 meters in Lahaul
Indrasan : Height 6220 meters in Lahaul
Sikarveh : Height 6200 meters in Lauhal district
Mukarbeh : Height 6060 meters in Kullu District
Kinnar Kailash : Height 6050 meters in Kinnaur District
Deo Tibba : Height 6001 meters in Kullu District
Hanuman Tibba : Height 5932 meters in Kullu District
Jeopango : Height 5870 meters in Lauhal District
Sarchu peak : Height 5741 meters in Lauhal
Kailash peak : Height 5656 meters in Chamba
Shri Khand Mahadev: Height 5227 meters in Kinnaur
Churdhar peak : Height 3647 meters in Shimla District Hatu peak : Height 3631 meters in Shimla District.
Ravi : Passes through Chamba
Satluj : passes through parts of Kinnaur,Rampur,Tatapani(shimla)
Beas : Passes through parts of Manali,kullu,sujjanpur,Dehra
Spiti : passes through parts of Kaza,Tabo and chango
Chandra: Passes through parts of Batal,Chhatru,Gramphooand Tandi
Bhaga : Passes through the part of Dharcha and Keylong
Chenav: Passes through Killar and Udaypur
Parvati : passes through the parts of Manikaran
Giri : Passes through Renuka
Pabbar : Passes through Rohru and Hatkoti
Yamuna : Passes through Ponta Sahib.
Most of the people in Himachal depend on agriculture for livelihood. Many people derive their income from sheep, goats, and other cattle. Ninety percent of the people live in villages and small towns. Villages usually have terraced fileds and small two storey houses with sloping roof. The villages are mostly self-contained with a few shops to take care of basic necessities of life. Most villages have a temple, where people congregate for worship. In many parts of the Himachal the village Gods are carried on palanquins to village fairs. On Dussehra the largest congregation of village Gods takes place at Kullu. The folk songs of Himachal Pradesh are full of charm. They are usually based on a religious or a romantic theme. People gather in a circle in village fairs and dance to the tune of these songs. The dancing is usually spontaneous during a village fair and is symbolic of the peace and joy of the people. In general people of Himachal Pradesh are honest, truthful, gentle, and good humored. Most of the children study at government run public schools. There are many private schools at Shimla and other parts of Himachal. top Religion Most of the people in Himachal are Hindus. There is a sizable number of Buddhists who live in Himachal. Hinduism practiced in the areas of Himachal that are closer to the northern plains is very similar to the Hinduism practiced in the plains. Upper hill areas have their own distinct flavor of Hinduism. Their practice of religion combines the local legends and beliefs with the larger Hindu beliefs. The temple architecture has also been influenced by local constraints such as availability or lack of availability of certain construction materials. Most of the upper hill temples are made of wood and more similar to Pagodas in design. Most of the people of Himachal who live in the areas that border with China are Buddhist. There are many beautiful Buddhist temples and pagodas in Himachal.
One km past the castle is the Roerich Gallery, a fine old house displaying the artwork of both the eccentric Professor Nicholas Roerich, who died in Naggar in 1947, and his son, Svetostav Roerich, who died in Bangalore in 1993. Its location is delightful and the views over the valley are great. It's open daily from 9am to 1pm, and from 2 to 5pm.
The colourful pleasant Tibetian Monastry has a carpet making operation. One can buy carpets and other Tibetian handicrafts.
A rich display of the states cultural, artistic and archeological heritage.This is a pleasant little museum that has precious little to show in the real sense, but whatever little there is, is rather nice to spend a chilly afternoon ducking the cold outside.Visiting hours: 1000 Hrs. to 1700 Hrs. (Monday Closed).
Named after Raja Bhuri Singh of Chamba, this is a treasure house of Chamba's ruling family . Much of the original craftsmanship can still be seen .
The Museum was opened in 1974. Preserved and displayed here are over 2000 art objects, a rich collection of Pahari paintings, antiques borrowed from the museums in Delhi and other parts of the country, besides bronzes, woodcraft, sculpture, etc.
A gallery of miniature paintings from Kangra, a representative collection of sculptures, pottery and anthropological items and many more such things are there in the Kangra Art museum.
This place is famous for the wall paintings and the temples.
The Valley of Gods, as the Kullu Valley has come to be known, if perhaps the most delightful region in the Western Himalayas. Situated on the banks of the river Beas, Kullu, the headquarters of the district, serves as a nerve centre of the valley and is the starting place for a number of treks. Kullu is famous for it's shawls, caps, gudmas, puhla, namdas,patoos and Handicrafts. Akhara bazaar is the best to shop out there.Kullu is best to visit during it's festival of Dussehra.Every year in October, tourists and Indians come for Dussehra, a massive, vibrant festival celebrating the gods of this glorious valley.
Shimla or the "Queen of hill stations", as it is often called is one of India's most popular holiday resorts. The capital of Himachal Pradesh, Shimla is named after its patron, Shamla Devi and was a tiny village until it was popularized as a hill resort by the British who established their summer capital here in 1864. Shimla is situated in the north-west Himalayas, Shimla is the capital of Himachal Pradesh. Spread across 12 kms along a ridge that overlooks terraced hillsides and cultivations, Shimla is magnificently robed in dense forests of oak and pine, fur and rhododendron, and it is best to travel here on the slow train from Kalka. Shimla also is a convenient base for variety of adventure sports such as Skiing, Trekking, Fishing and Golfing etc.
For a lavish display of natural scenery, it is one of the principal snow places of the Kullu region. And Manali is at an altitude of beauty and gateway to Dhauli and Spiti. Rhotang Pass is a common sightseeing point amongst Indian tourists searching for snow.
Perched on a flat mountain shelf, the town of Chamba is known for its ancient temples and Chaugan - a public promenade. It is one of the oldest princely state and dates back to the sixth century . It is well known for its splendid and beautiful architecture and also has a district headquarters .
Mandi, which means 'market', is quite a good place to break the journey between Shimla and the Kullu Valley - a far better option to stay than Bilaspur. In Mandi, there are some cheap hotels, you will stumble across some of the 81 Hindu temples in the area, and can take a day trip to a nearby lake or two. At less than 800m above sea level,Mandi is considerably hotter than other regional areas.
Dalhousie, nestling in the outer slopes of Dhaulandhar range, is a excellence hill station. It is known for its bracing climate and picturesque scenery.
Dharamshala stands on a spur of the Dhauladhar range amidst magnificient deodar and pine forests, tea gardens and beautiful hills. It is also known as 'The Lhasa in India'.
Located in the dizzy heights of the Himalayas, with passes that remain closed for six months, Kinnaur, Spiti and Lahaul were till now, a forbidden land. Now this area has been opened for the daring and adventurous who can discover what had been hidden from the world for centuries. From the riotous green of the Sangla Valley- filled with orchards of apricots, peaches, apples and Chilgoza pine forests, to the magnificent desolation of the Hangrang Valley, Mother Nature's portrait is everchanging in Kinnaur. This land lying on the ancient trade route between India and Tibet, ringed by the majestic mountains of the Himalayan and Dhauladhar range is a land of plenty.
It is the third largest and the oldest religion of the World. No one is actually certain how old is Hinduism but it can be said with certainty that Indus valley civilization contributed some ideas to Hindu religion. The earliest known Hindu scriptures are the "Vedas". Vedas describe the religion of Aryans, who invaded India around 1500 B.C. The Vedic religion was not Hinduism although Hindus consider Vedas as their scriptures. Of the Hindu "Trinity" Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Mahesh (Shiva) the destroyer only Vishnu's name appears in the oldest Vedas. The concept of Trinity dates back to 500 A.D. Around the same time, the importance of goddess began which appears in many forms of Shakti (Shiva's consort). However, Upanishads which were written several hundreds years later have characteristic Hindu ideas of unity of soul with Brahman, karma, reincarnation, and salvation (Moksha- escape from reincarnation). The notion of class and caste which was absent in Vedas starting appearing during this period. Hindus are mainly divided into three groups i) Shivites, who are devoted to Shiva, whom they consider as their creator and preserver of the universe ii) Vaishnavas, who assign the above roles to Vishnu and iii) Shaktas, who worship Shakti. These divisions of Hinduism are not very rigid as in other faiths and it is not strange for people of one belief to mix with others. The Hindus do not form congergations and mostly worship at home. They worship other God and Goddesses as well as these are considered as another reincarnation of main Hindu Gods. As a result, the major Gods and Goddesses are worshiped in many names and forms. Hindus have little missionary feeling because they believe that the proper way to become a Hindu is to born one. Hindu rituals cover all areas of a person's life. Hindu society has a high standard of conduct, with little immorality, crime, or violence.
The Himalayas are known to be young fold mountains. Young, because these have been formed relatively recently in the earth's history, compared to older mountain ranges like the Aravallis in India, and the Appalachian in the USA. They are known as fold mountains because the mountains extend for 2500 km in length in a series of parallel ridges or folds. The accepted theory about the formation of the Himalayas started to take shape in the year 1912 when German meteorologist Alfred Wegener developed his Theory of Continental Drift. According to Wegener, the earth was composed of several giant plates called tectonic plates. On these plates lie the continents and the oceans of the earth. The continents were said to have formed a single mass at one point in time. From this single mass, today's continents have "drifted" apart from each other over a period of millions of years. We pick up the story about 250 million years ago. During this time, all the earth's land was a single super continent called Pangea, which was surrounded by a large ocean. The continents, 180 Million years ago. Around 200 million years ago (also known as the Middle Permian Period), an extensive sea stretched along the latitudinal area presently occupied by the Himalayas. This sea was named the Tethys. Around this period, the super continent Pangea began to gradually split into different land masses and move apart in different directions.
As a result, rivers from both the northern Eurasian land mass (called Angara) and the southern Indian land mass (called Gondwana) started depositing large amounts of sediments into the shallow sea that was the Tethys. There were marine animals called ammonites living in the sea at the time. The two land masses, the Eurasian and the Indian sub-continent, moved closer and closer. Indian plate was moving north about at the rate of about 15 cm per year (6 inches per year). The initial mountain building process started about seventy million years ago (or the Upper Cretaceous period) when the two land masses (or plates) began to collide with each other. As a result, the already shallow seabed rapidly folded and was raised into longitudinal ridges and valleys. Soon afterwards, about 65 million years ago (Upper Eocene Period), came the second phase of mountain building. The bed of the Tethys started rising again. The sea retreated, and the seabed was elevated into high mountain ranges.
Later, about 25 million years ago (Middle Miocene Period) came another mountain building period, which led to the formation of the low Shivalik ranges. After this, periodic mountain building phases occurred as the Indian plate pushed against the Eurasian plates, which led to the Himalayan ranges rising further. The last major phase occurred 600,000 years ago. Although the phase of major upheaval of the Himalayas has passed, the Himalayas are still rising, albeit at a much slower rate. The Indian plate is continuously moving north at the rate of about 2 cms every year. Because of this reason the Himalayas are rising at the rate of about 5 millimeter per year. This means that the Himalayas are still geologically active and structurally unstable. For this reason, earthquakes are a frequent occurrence in the entire Himalayan region. It has to be understood that it is impossible to detect the movement of the plates and uplifting of the Himalayas by casual observation. However, a modern technology called Global Positioning System (GPS) has made it possible to measure even such a slow movement of the plates. The Alps in Europe are another example of a mountain chain that formed due to the collision of tectonic plates.
Over two hundred fifty million years ago, India, Africa, Australia, and South America were all one continent called Pangea. Over the next several million years, this giant southern continent proceeded to break up, forming the continents we know today. Pangea essentially turned inside out, the edges of the old continent becoming the collision zones of new continents. Africa, South America, and Antarctica began to fragment. What ultimately formed Mt. Everest, about 60 million years ago, was the rapid movement of India northward toward the continent of Euro Asia; India charged across the equator at rates of up to 15 cm/year, in the process closing an ocean named Tethys that had separated fragments of Pangea. This ocean is entirely gone today, although the sedimentary rocks that settled on its ocean floor and the volcanoes that fringed its edges remain to tell the tale of its existence.
To understand the fascinating mechanics of the collision of India with Asia we must first look beneath the Earth's surface. The Earth's tectonic plates, like people on an escalator, carry the continents. There are currently 7 giant plates sliding across the Earth's surface, and a handful of smaller ones. There may have been more or fewer plates in the past. Currently they slide, collide, and recede from one another at rates of 1-20 cm/year. They are driven by internal heat deep in the earth that is able to escape efficiently only by convection. Convection is the process that drives hot currents of gas or liquid upwards because they are less dense, and cold currents of liquid downwards because they are denser.
In some ways, the continents are like giant accumulations of rock debris lying atop the tectonic plates. Continents are the "scum of the Earth," consisting mostly of light minerals like quartz, which can't sink into the Earth's dense mantle. As the plates collided, the sinking ocean floor generated volcanoes in southern Tibet because the rock at the top of the descending plate melted, from friction and the huge pressures of collision. However, by 25 million years ago the fast moving Indian continent had almost entirely closed over the intervening ocean, squeezing the sediments on the ocean floor. Since the sediments were lightweight, instead of sinking along with the plate, they crumpled into mountain ranges -- the Himalayas. By 10 million years ago the two continents were in direct collision and the Indian continent, because of its enormous quantity of light quartz-rich rocks, was unable to descend along with the rest of the Indian plate. It was at about this time that the anchor chain must have broken; the descending Indian plate may have fallen off and foundered deep into the mantle.
Although we don't fully understand the mechanism of what happened next, it's clear that the Indian continent began to be driven horizontally beneath Tibet like a giant wedge, forcing Tibet upwards. Tibet, meanwhile, is behaving like a giant roadblock that prevents the Himalaya from moving northward. Under the peaks and under most of Tibet the Indian plate is apparently gliding along almost frictionless.
Over periods of 5-10 million years, the plates will continue to move at the same rate, which allows us to forecast fairly reliably how the Himalaya will develop. In 10 million years India will plow into Tibet a further 180km. This is about the width of Nepal. Because Nepal's boundaries are marks on the Himalayan peaks and on the plains of India whose convergence we are measuring, Nepal will technically cease to exist. But the mountain range we know as the Himalaya will not go away. This is because the Himalaya will probably look much the same in profile then as it does now. There will be tall mountains in the north, smaller ones in the south, and the north/south width of the Himalaya will be the same. What will happen is that the Himalaya will have advanced across the Indian plate and the Tibetan plateau will have grown by accretion. One of the few clues about the rate of collision between India and Tibet before the GPS measurements were made was the rate of advance of Himalayan sediments across the Ganges plain. There is an orderly progression of sediments in front of the foothills. Larger boulders appear first, followed by pebbles, and further south, sand-grains, silts, and finally very fine muds. This is what you see when you drive from the last hills of the Himalaya southward 100 km. The present is obvious, but the historical record cannot be seen on the surface because the sediments bury all former traces of earlier sediments. However, in drill holes in the Ganges plain, the coarser rocks are always on the top and the finer pebbles and mud's are on the bottom, showing that the Himalaya are relentlessly advancing on India.
Shimla /ˈʃɪmlə/ (Hindi: शिमला [ˈʃɪmlaː] ( listen)), formerly known as Simla, is the capital city of Himachal Pradesh. In 1864, Shimla was declared the summer capital of the British Raj in India. A popular tourist destination, Shimla is often referred to as the "Queen of Hills," a term coined by the British. Located in the north-west Himalayas at an average altitude of 2,205 metres (7,234 ft), the city of Shimla, draped in forests of pine, rhododendron, and oak, experiences pleasant summers and cold, snowy winters. The city is famous for its buildings styled in tudorbethan and neo-gothic architecture dating from the colonial era. Shimla is connected to the city of Kalka by one of the longest narrow gauge railway routes still operating in India,[2] the Kalka-Shimla Railway. Shimla is approximately 145 km (90 mi) from Mandi, 100 km (62 mi) from Chandigarh, the nearest major city, and 365 km (227 mi) from New Delhi, the national capital. The city is named after the goddess Shyamala Devi, an incarnation of the Hindu Goddess Kali.[3]
Shimla Holiday in a Homestay, Bed and Breakfast, Shimla Hostels, Shimla Hills, Guesthouse, Hiking, Trekking Shimla, Relaxation Retreat, Cottage in Shimla.


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BROWN: This is budget week, the administration trying to sell its budget for 2006 to the country, to the Congress. There are plenty of skeptics, skeptics because the plan calls for some of the most drastic cuts since Ronald Reagan was in office, but still leaves a record deficit. In fact, it's kind of a misnomer to call it the president's budget. It belongs just as much to Congress, or it will when Congress rewrites it. But, even in that regard, traditional roles have changed. We begin this with CNN's Bruce Morton.
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The first thing you need to know about the president's budget is that it doesn't exist. Sure, there's a book and all those briefings. But likely nothing close to what he's asking for will ever happen because it all has to go through Congress. Last year Mr. Bush asked Congress to eliminate 65 government programs for a savings of $4. 9 billion. Congress eliminated just four of the 65, saving less than $300 million. This year he's asking Congress to cut or eliminate 150 programs. How well do you think he'll do? For every government program there's probably an industry that gives money to politicians that wants the program kept alive. There may be a trade union that gives money that wants to keep those jobs. There will be a congressional subcommittee that supervises the program. And if it dies, what will they be in charge of? When Ronald Reagan said the closest thing to eternal life on this Earth was a government program he wasn't kidding. And it isn't just the programs. It's the little goodies, a park for your district, a research program for the college in my district that congressman stick into spending bills. Earmarks they're called. The watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste estimates that in fiscal 2005 there were 13,900 earmarks worth just under $26. 5 billion. A record. The president can veto appropriations bills, of course. The whole bill. He doesn't have a line item veto. But this president has never done that. In fact, the whole issue has changed. Deficit hawks used to be Republicans. The constitutional amendment to balance the budget was part of Newt Gingrich's contract with America back in the 1990s when the Republicans won control of the House. But it was Democrat Bill Clinton who actually ended deficits and ran surpluses. And so the issue has switched sides.
KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Now Democrats are almost twice as likely as Republicans to say that the federal deficit is a very important issue the Congress and the president have to deal with in the coming year.
MORTON: It's way too early to know what the budget Congress actually passes will look like. What we know is it won't look much like the one the president sent them this week. It never does. Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
BROWN: "New York Times" columnist Paul Krugman joins us. He's been writing about the budget. He's been writing about Social Security. Sometimes he writes about them both the same day. So I feel free to talk about them both. Nice to see you again.
PAUL KRUGMAN, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Good to see you.
BROWN: There's a little bit of a disconnect here, it seems to me, when we say that the Democrats have become the budget hawks, because, in fact, a lot of the programs that are being cut are programs that are traditionally supported by Democrats, talking about Medicaid programs, for one, assistance to the poor, education programs and others.
KRUGMAN: Well, but the elephant in the room, of course, is taxes. Under Bush, the taxes that fall most heavily on the affluent, which is the personal income tax and the corporate profits tax, are at their lowest level since 1942. So Democrats are deficit hawks in the sense they say, look, we need more revenue. And Bush is not prepared to do anything along those lines.
BROWN: I may have missed this, but the problem here is nobody really believes, do they, that they're undertaxed?
KRUGMAN: Well, I think you are. And I think I am, actually, relatively speaking.
BROWN: Speak for yourself here, if you don't mind.
KRUGMAN: OK. No, but the truth is that what we've had is a revenue collapse. If you look at why is there is a budget deficit, it's because tax collection, not on the middle class, who mostly pay the payroll tax, but on the high-income people, has really fallen drastically off, partly because of the Bush tax cuts, partly for reasons we don't -- you know, for other reasons.
BROWN: I think was yesterday -- I think I saw it this morning. The budget director said that, in fact, the rich, which in this definition -- whoever is rich, this definition seems to change a -- but I think it was $140,000 a year or more -- were actually paying a little bit more of the total income taxes.
KRUGMAN: That's the trick. That's the income tax, which is the one that -- but not total -- their share of the total tax burden has fallen quite a lot.
BROWN: Right.
KRUGMAN: So -- and the thing is -- the thing about the Bush budget is, if you're serious about tackling the budget deficit, you go where the money is, which is either tax increases or Social Security and Medicare.
BROWN: Right.
KRUGMAN: And where he is going is where the money isn't, like food stamps.
BROWN: That's chump change by comparison.
KRUGMAN: Exactly; $1.1 billion in food stamps does a lot -- which is the cut that is in the budget -- that does a lot of harm to a lot of people. But it's nothing. That's -- well, it's a day in Iraq -- not quite. But it's about a week's tax cuts for people over $1 million.
BROWN: One of the things you talked about today, which I think is the great -- I've been saying for a while -- going to be the great debate in the country this year, is what this -- what privatizing Social Security or parts of Social Security, whatever, what that really is about. And you make the argument today -- it's not the first time -- that this is really an attack on the central pillar of what conservative America considers the welfare state.
KRUGMAN: Yes. I mean, if you think of what -- look at what the Cato -- people at the Cato Institute, who -- it's basically people from the Cato Institute who are devising this plan, who are on the...
BROWN: This is a think tank on the right.
KRUGMAN: Think tank. And they -- you know, I quoted one this morning who said Social Security is the soft underbelly of the welfare state. Let's jab a spear through it. And if you look at the president's plan, there's been a lot of misunderstanding about it. People will say, oh, it's just a small part. Actually, if you look at it, by the time that people who are young, who are not yet in the work force, by the time they retire under that plan, Social Security as we know it would be gone.
BROWN: Do you think they see a world where this is no guaranteed at-retirement check of some amount?
KRUGMAN: That's what -- just run the numbers on the Bush plan. The typical worker who was born in 1990 will be getting 8 percent of his or her wages in guaranteed checks, which is nothing.
BROWN: And do you believe they see a world where there is medical care -- there is no Medicare at 65?
KRUGMAN: I think that's what they're looking for. Now, that, they have not said. That's -- I'm guessing. But they certainly have spoken out against a whole set of programs. And Social Security is the -- again, what we have, the hard stuff we have is a plan that will essentially eliminate any guaranteed retirement income.
BROWN: Just really quickly, yes or no, do you think the president will win on privatizing Social Security?
KRUGMAN: I don't think so. I think they weren't ready for the pushback.
BROWN: Nice to see you. I hope you will come back.
KRUGMAN: Good to see you.
BROWN: You're a splendid writer. Still ahead on the program, one of the more heartrending legal battles to flow out of the attacks of 9/11. How many can there be? We'll tell you that story. Morning papers are around again, so we've got some stuff to do. We'll be right back. This is NEWSNIGHT.
Originally broadcast, 2.8.05


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text:
Thank you, Karen, for that kind introduction, and good morning everyone.
It is my pleasure to welcome you to the 2018 SelectUSA Investment Summit.
This is an exciting event for me, for the U.S. Department of Commerce, for the economic development officials here from 50 states and territories, and for our entire country.
This is the second SelectUSA Summit that I have hosted, and this year we will have more than 3,000 delegates from 66 countries, including delegates from 15 new countries.
On behalf of President Trump and all Americans, welcome, all of you.
This year, we have scheduled 2,200 one-on-one meetings between state economic development officials and representatives from foreign companies attending the Summit.
We have also helped the attending foreign delegations plan 21 trips visiting states and local communities as potential investment opportunities.
And thank you to our dedicated Foreign Commercial Service Officers who have been so instrumental in introducing foreign companies to the United States and all that America has to offer.
We also have a new record, 14 American ambassadors and 18 Chiefs of Mission who are here.
Thank you for traveling with your delegations of foreign business partners from your overseas posts.
To give you an indication of how important this event is to the U.S. government, there will be five Cabinet Secretaries in attendance over the next two days.
Moreover, 10 state Governors are with us, up from only two Governors attending last year's Summit.
In alphabetical order, they are Governor Bevin of Kentucky, Bryant of Mississippi, Fallin of Oklahoma, Herbert of Utah, Hickenlooper of Colorado, Holcomb of Indiana, Otter of Idaho, Ricketts of Nebraska, Rosello of Puerto Rico, and Walker of Wisconsin.
A special welcome and thank you, Governors, for making this Summit a priority in your hectic schedules.
This is the premier global event for foreign direct investment.
We are here to help your companies grow and prosper in the most open and dynamic market in the world.
The path that you are starting at the Investment Summit is one that will lead to success not only in the United States, but the world over.
As the saying goes: If you can be successful in the United States, you can be successful anywhere.
This is the fifth SelectUSA Investment Summit.
Since its inaugural year in 2013, more than $93 billion of foreign direct investment has been announced by past participants in this event.
There are also some blockbuster investments from foreign companies that will soon be producing here, and selling their output directly to American customers and into foreign export markets.
Let me mention a few of them.
Formosa Plastics Group of Taiwan is investing $9.4 billion in a massive chemical complex in St. James Parish, Louisiana.
Over the next 10 years, building the new facility will generate 8,050 construction jobs, and 1,200 permanent jobs.
The average pay: $84,500, more than 60 percent higher than the median household income in St. James Parish.
Representatives from Volvo Cars have been working with SelectUSA staff since 2014.
They are now investing an additional $520-million in their production center in Berkley County, South Carolina, for the company's new line of sedans and mid-sized crossovers.
Volvo will hire more than 1,900 workers, and its investment is expected to create an additional 2,000 indirect jobs.
Volvo's investment in South Carolina totals more than $1 billion.
Fiat is planning a $1-billion investment to move production of heavy duty trucks from its plant in Mexico to a factory in Michigan.
The company says the move was possible due to the tax reform bill that was signed into law by President Trump last December.
Japan-based Teijin broke ground earlier this month on a $643-million, carbon-fiber production plant in Greenwood County, South Carolina.
The company will hire 291 American workers, and company executives said that the local and state economic development officials welcomed them like they were, quote, "family."
Last year, Taki-gawa Corporation, a Japanese company, met with representatives from Kentucky's economic development office attending the SelectUSA Summit.
Over the course of succeeding months, Taki-gawa executives met with state officials and, this past April, it broke ground in Bards-town, Kentucky, on a $46-million flexible packaging and high-performance films plant.
That plant is being built on an 18-acre greenfield site and will employ 180 new workers.
Swiss-based Lonza Biologics is expanding its operations in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, by one million square feet, and expects to create 1,000 new jobs.
Some investments are not as big financially, but are equally as important.
Last year at the SelectUSA Summit, I participated in a new business announcement with the French software and hardware company called Klaxoon.
At the time, the company announced a $5 million investment in the United States.
Just this month, Klaxoon secured $50 million in new venture capital.
Klaxoon is off to the races.
And the list goes on.
In fact, this Summit will have more new business investment announcements than any Summit we have hosted.
This afternoon, we will be announcing two new foreign investments in Ohio, plus new production projects in Idaho and Virginia.
Investments in the projects being announced during the Summit total more than $600 million, and it demonstrates why this conference exists: To boost the growth and prospects of all businesses that invest in the United States.
There really is no better place in the world to invest.
AT Kearney ranked the United States as the best destination country for foreign investment for the sixth year running. There are good reasons why:
- The United States has the world's third largest population with 325 million savvy consumers;
- We maintain a strong adherence to the rule of law and the protection of your intellectual property, your most valuable asset;
- We provide unique opportunities to tap into advanced research and the innovation and engineering capabilities that are plentiful throughout the country;
- We have adopted strong economic growth policies, including a new, low corporate tax rate, and drastic reductions in regulations.
- There is ready access to capital, inexpensive and plentiful energy, natural resources, and a skilled, energized, and optimistic workforce;
- And our states will work individually with you to make it easy to invest.
Having the world's most innovative, open system of capitalism is the reason why the United States continues to create entirely new industries that generate strong economic growth, with close to record levels of employment.
Please use every networking opportunity throughout the Summit — from coffee breaks to the time spent on the Exhibition Hall — to make as many connections as possible.
You can also use our SelectUSA Summit App to choose meetings to attend and search for partners.
We are doing everything in our power as a government to assure that your investment pays dividends long into the future.
Thank you, again, for being here and, please, enjoy the time you are able to spend in the United States.


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Latitude: 52.242 / 52°14'31"N
Longitude: 0.7172 / 0°43'1"E
OS Eastings: 585614
OS Northings: 263899
OS Grid: TL856638
Mapcode National: GBR QF0.G4J
Mapcode Global: VHKD4.DX05
Entry Name: 10, Crown Street
Listing Date: 7 August 1952
Grade: II
Source: Historic England
Source ID: 1076941
English Heritage Legacy ID: 466773
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, West Suffolk, Suffolk, IP33
County: Suffolk
District: St. Edmundsbury
Civil Parish: Bury St Edmunds
Built-Up Area: Bury St Edmunds
Traditional County: Suffolk
Lieutenancy Area (Ceremonial County): Suffolk
Church of England Parish: Bury St Edmunds St Mary
Church of England Diocese: St.Edmundsbury and Ipswich
639-1/11/301 (East side)
07/08/52 No.10
House. C16/C17 core, C18 front. Timber-framed and
roughcast-rendered; slate roof with a wood modillion eaves
cornice. A late C17 gable at the rear and a wing with brick
and flint walling along the south side, possibly covering a
EXTERIOR: 2 storeys and cellar; 4 window range: 12-pane sashes
in flush cased frames; one deep 18-pane sash to the left of
the door. A recessed 4-panel door is set in a heavy wooden
Gibbs surround with a keystone, cornice and triangular
pediment. A chimney-stack with 4 diagonal shafts on a
rectangular base.
INTERIOR: most timbers are hidden and some reproduction
Georgian features have been introduced. One ground storey sash
window has heavy ovolo-moulded glazing bars. Old internal
doors are 6-, 4- and 2-panel. In the front of the house,the
upper rooms have moulded wood cornices. The wing on the south,
in 4 bays, has the main timbers exposed at the east end: a
cambered tie-beam has a cut away section on the top, possibly
for a former crown-post. The remains of a moulded dado to the
Listing NGR: TL8561463899
This text is from the original listing, and may not necessarily reflect the current setting of the building.
Other nearby listed buildings


text:
No point in big QOF changes
Dr Chris Woodforde gives parents special symptom diaries to ensure diagnoses of childhood asthma are based on the fullest possible information.
The diaries have sections for details of day and night symptoms, treatment, smoking and 'unusual events'.
Dr Woodforde, a GP fellow in respiratory health at Halton PCT in Cheshire, said it was useful to have a 'physical record' of his patients' condition. He also stressed the importance of keeping alert for other possibly unusual causes of cough and taking a detailed history.
'The history is very, very important. We have to look at the history and see if there are risk factors such as atopy or family history of atopy,' he said.


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text: My kids have always loved joining me in the kitchen for my annual holiday baking sesh...but we don't typically bake together that often in the fall. How silly! So, I've decided to change that all this year and we're starting with these darling sugar cone teepees! Not only are these fall treats super ... READ the POST


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Daniel Rosenthal
Into the wild print Wall Print
or 4 payments of $100.00 with Afterpay
or 4 payments of $100.00 with Afterpay
In stock
Product Size: A1 / 594 x 841 mm
Cape Town photographer Sven Kristian meets his muse at the clay pit to bring us his stunning collection of images.
"Hanna was in Cape town for the season. I wanted to create something fun & spontaneous, a little trashy, yet natural. I loved pellet gun target shooting when I was younger, so this was a great addition to the story. I did not need to direct Hanna, she just went out there & started doing what I was hoping for, I just clicked the shutter, continuously."
Printing: Boutique printing on high-quality fine art paper (300gsm, 100% cotton rag) with a beautiful flat finish.
Prices are quoted for one size & unframed images only. Framing & custom sizing available on request.
Border: All images include a 50mm white border for framing with additional space (75mm) at the bottom for Sticks & Stones Mothership stamp of authentication & artist name.
*All prices listed in AUD


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Spirituality Within Your Business Enterprise With Out Scaring Consumers
You have been deepening your spirituality iawishka in peru , and it has seeped into every thing you do, or is beginning to. The thing is, will it freak your shoppers out when you go all woo-woo and weird on them?
Although you might be previously making use of spirituality strongly in your organization, I'm guessing there are destinations you just don't desire to go, things that are as well blatant or potent. You do not choose to evangelize, you are not looking to change any individual. But something's lacking.
In a workshop, I at the time met a well-known advertising guru who experienced a cadre of lecturers, books, along with a well-oiled technique of powerful promoting that he sold to hundreds of purchasers. We were being talking for the reason that, as he confessed to me, "I never consist of the non secular do the job I do myself in what I train, since I am fearful my customers won't be able to tackle it."
He is leaving out what he himself phone calls probably the most important ingredient, withholding it from his shoppers. Rather a quandary, eh? Do you withhold, and hope your shoppers by some means magically "get it"? Or would you go full-on punk rock gypsy priestess, as considered one of our consumers phone calls herself, supplying 'em all 4 chords of one's songs, letting the playing cards fall in which they may?
The Role of Spirituality within your Company You know that stating, "the purchaser is usually right"? Effectively, it ain't 'zackly accurate. When we are talking about spirituality, shoppers essentially frequently haven't any strategy what they really need to have, but they consider they are doing.
Allow me convey to you a story. Some yrs back, when i was starting up out, I was doing the job with dozens of purchasers who came desirous to work on their organization, having their internet marketing in position, producing it function. So, we went to operate.


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Only three places in the world! "Chiri-hama Nagisa Driveway" in Ishikawa Prefecture where you can drive on the beach
Posted on March 7, 2019
Do you know that there are only three places in the world where you can drive by the surf on the beach?
Waita Lele beach in New Zealand, Daytona Beach in Florida, USA.
And Chiri-hama Nagisa Driveway in Ishikawa Prefecture in Japan.
This time I will introduce the Chiri-hama Nagisa Driveway in Ishikawa
Prefecture in Japan!
Photo by @rillinjapan
Ready? Say, cheese!
Photo by @caroladeitinger
Hello from the heart shaped sand!
Drive on the beach with sea aside.
The comfortability is exceptional!
Photo by @caroladeitinger
There is a sand statue at the end on the north side of
the Chiri-hama drive way!Let me introduce a bit.
Photo by @poacewave
Bruce Lee
Photo by @poacewave
The height is 3 meters.
Photo by @poacewave
Please visit the sand statue !
Photo by @sarebear027
Car is not only the one that runs on the sandy beach!
Horses also run.
It is good to stop the car and take a picture.
If watching this video,
you can experience a bit the comfort of
drive on the sandy beach.
If visiting Ishikawa Prefecture, please enjoy the sandy beach drive.
【Chiri-hama Nagisa Drive way, Ishikawa Prefecture】
Address 〒929-1344
Imahamao, Shimizu-cho, Hodatsu, Hakuigun, Ishikawa Prefecture