text:
Thursday, October 18, 2007
Purdue Football Managers Mock Michigan at Big House
In the clip below, a couple of Purdue football managers were inside the Big House ("setting up the field" according to YouTube) and decided to "recreate" the blocked FG that gave Appalachian State its victory over Michigan in A2 last month...
Funny stuff. I haven't laughed that hard since I watched the team that lost to Appy State crank slap Purdue 48-21 last Saturday.
Of course, these Purdue staff members had to reference the M/ASU game because to recreate a Purdue victory over Michigan in the Big House, they'd have to ask their grandparents what that would be like, as it hasn't happened since 1966.
Maybe if Joe Tiller's staff had prepared their team instead of being so busy making wacky YouTube clips on their opponent's field, they might not have been completely embarrassed last weekend.
Then again, what can you expect from folks associated with a coach who has his team kick an onside kick with :08 seconds left and down by 27 points (after having them kick another onside kick before that with under two minutes left and down by 34 points).
Ed. Note Update: Since it's hard to read tone sometimes in a post, for the record, I was actually more pissed off about Joe Tiller running onside kicks with :08 seconds left than the knuckleheads in the video above. I know we're going to be hearing about "that game" for a loooong time. Fair enough. Hell, we poked as much fun at our team as anybody after The Debacle.
But as T9 and a couple other commenters basically said about the clip above:
Making fun of Michigan on their own field...pretty funny.
Video taping it...kinda dumb.
Posting it on YouTube AFTER losing by 27 points?...Pricelessy stupid. And thus ripe for a little reverse mocking.
72 comments:
- Sirputtsalot said...
As I read this, my first thought was "maybe they should have actually been working..." and then you went and said that.
I think it's a rather strong testament to Michigan as a program to show the amount of heart (and Hart) it has since falling to 0-2. I wouldn't have minded a 1-3 start from y'all, but it says more that UM bounced back than it would have if it rolled through. Good luck the rest of the way and give OSU their second loss.
- October 18, 2007 8:30 AM
- Catie said...
Ok, my question is, after losing so terribly......would you put that up on Utube?? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that is a stupid idea. We may be the team that lost to Appy State, but (as has been said before) they are the team that lost to the team that lost to Appy State........aside from the fact that it is amazing disrespectful to do that in OUR house. I guess this proves that we are a better team, in more ways than one.
- October 18, 2007 8:43 AM
- DaBraylon17 said...
I believe the word "assholes" comes to mind.
No, that's not right. Maybe the words "pieces of shit?"
Nah, too nice. How about "losers?" That is better since we fucking destroyed those fuckface shitbreak faggots.
- October 18, 2007 9:11 AM
- Mikoyan said...
I think morons is more appropriate. It's one thing to make the video. I can understand cutting loose a little bit. But to put it on Youtube AFTER you have lost so badly takes a pair.
- October 18, 2007 9:23 AM
- Andy said...
I look at it this way... This is the only color video ever captured of someone linked to Purdue football program celebrating a win on the turf of Michigan Stadium.
Good job boilermaker guys -- you have captured history !!!
- October 18, 2007 9:27 AM
- schwatt09 said...
Haha, u of m lost to app state, nothing you can say about that.
good call, expanding the crap house so even more fans can watch a team blow thru millions of dollars in recruits that go 8-3
any chance it will be done on nov 17th? i'm sure a few thousand more fans would enjoy another beat down of Llllloyd by the sweater vest
- October 18, 2007 9:39 AM
- Dex said...
those are some angry comments.
we did lose to app state, i mean, it happened. and it's going to be a punchline, possibly forever. haven't you folks moved from "irrational anger" to "humorous pratfall" yet?
- October 18, 2007 10:04 AM
Stay classy schwatt09
- October 18, 2007 10:10 AM
- WingRG said...
it's idiots like you that are the reason people are tired of ignorant buckeye fans on this site. Disrespecting the tradition that is the "Big House" means disrespecting cfb tradition. Go back to your trailer.
The rest of you guys might be over-reacting just a little bit, i mean, these aren't players doing this, it's managers (whatever they do). They wanted to have a memory that they could take home from the Big House (along with the ass whooping that their team got). It's silly, but it's all in good fun, IMHO.
- October 18, 2007 10:13 AM
- TitleIX said...
1) Making fun of Michigan on their own field.....kinda funny
2) Making a video of said ridicule...kinda dumb
3) Posting video on YouTube?...
- October 18, 2007 10:13 AM
- schwatt09 said...
i've moved on to "humorous pratfall" cracks me up anytime i see anything relating to it
u of m deserves anything that comes their way after losing to app state, this has to be expected, to defend it only makes it worse
- October 18, 2007 10:16 AM
- schwatt09 said...
i guess we're writing letters...
losing to a 1-aa school is disrespectful to the crap house, much worse than any stupid post i can put on some stupid site.
i've been to louder stadiums with half the capacity, what's the point? Hardly tradition when it changes every 10 years
what are you going to do about it, throw a marshmallow at me, oh no make it stop!
- October 18, 2007 10:21 AM
- WingRG said...
i don't think you know anything about college football. Appalachian State is a very good team, no matter which designation they have, or how many scholarships they offer. Every program goes through down turns, and kicking UM when it's down isn't the smartest thing for any OSU fan.
If you don't respect your hosts (and people that host this site are UM fans), you're a shitty guest, and you should leave.
- October 18, 2007 10:30 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
This is what happens when the game passes your coach by- people end up laughing at you. Doesn't matter if they'd be smarter not to, you're still a joke. That's what Lloyd's done to the program. Winning out the schedule & beating Oregon in a Rose Bowl rematch won't change that.
Were these kids from Purdue stupid to post this after their own beat down? Certainly. But "App St - Michigan" is a punchline for the rest this season. And smart or not, we're going to keep hearing it.
On the good side? Memories are short and by next season there will be something else- my bet it'll be ND's continued losing streak reaching "Duke" levels. But that's next year.
- October 18, 2007 10:41 AM
- schwatt09 said...
Thank you for your response, you're right App State is the best program in the country, so good in fact I'm sure they will easily go undefeated. This year was a down year for michigan as can be expected with all that talent returning. I'm mixing up a glass of kool-aid now to excuse away the App State loss, thanks for the ingredients.
Thank you for enlightening me, a supposed osu fan, you do indeed know everything about me and college football, little did I know that blogspot.com was a UM site. I appreciate your time and effort spent corresponding with me. Best of luck in all your future endeavors.
Schwatt, xoxo
- October 18, 2007 10:45 AM
- WingRG said...
i'm the last person selling michigan kool-aid, but there're lines of respect that you don't cross. If you don't understand that (after i tried explaining it to u twice) i got nothing else to say to u.
- October 18, 2007 10:51 AM
- Dex said...
we should make fun of app state losing to wofford. that'll make us feel better!
/curious how fellow UM fans would have handled OSU losing to Youngstown ...surely it would have been pure "class"
- October 18, 2007 10:51 AM
- The Dude said...
I jus wann say, Schwatt is right, Appalachain state is the best program in the country, shoot, last week we beat Northwestern louisana state tech A&M by fordy. I think tdem shirts with calvin peeing on michigan is right, AnnArbor is a whore. Yeee-haw go dale Jr!!!
- October 18, 2007 10:52 AM
- TitleIX said...
Hey schwatty...
Point of clarification.
Is the 09 for your graduation date from High School or Grade School?
just checkin'
- October 18, 2007 10:53 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
I'll bet no one would have run out & wasted money buying Penguin's gear.
- October 18, 2007 10:58 AM
- schwatt09 said...
hey "chicks should be offered more scholarship sports than foxy boxing", i.e. TitleIX,
i didn't know there was graduation date, just signed up today to make fun of michigan fans.
maybe it's the default date. but we'll go with grade school, not sure why it matters. you want to go toe to toe with a grade school kid? maybe those marshmallows will hurt more
- October 18, 2007 11:02 AM
- WingRG said...
i don't know, that penguin is awfully cute.
- October 18, 2007 11:06 AM
- Catie said...
At times to be silent is to lie. You will win because you have enough brute force. But you will not convince. For to convince you need to persuade. And in order to persuade you would need what you lack: Reason and right. ~ Miguel de Unamuno
- October 18, 2007 11:10 AM
- schwatt09 said...
it's been real, i'm out for the day
i hope michigan runs the table leading into ohio state, the game is always best when both teams are playing good football.
best of luck with school
- October 18, 2007 11:13 AM
- The Dude said...
I'm jus glad Al Gore invented the intranet! I cood talk about my favorite things with some people, App state, OSU and Dale Jr!! Hey remember when App State blocked 2 field goals , yeee-haw!!
- October 18, 2007 11:13 AM
- TitleIX said...
thanks for the props to the foxy boxing team.
we kick ass everyday of the week, and look damned great doing it, too.
a word to the wise while Yost is obviously away:
enough with the faux fencing of 'wit' --you'll lose everytime in this crowd.
And besides, it's SO pathetically pedantic and pedestrian (dictionary.com)
you want to play in our sandbox? that's cool as we welcome intellect and good-sportsmanship, but we don't take kindly to sand-throwers.
- October 18, 2007 11:15 AM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Ok, I MIGHT have gone out & bought an Arnold Palmer vintage style munsingwear golf shirt (w/ their little penguin on it) but that's it. And only cause penguins are cute.
- October 18, 2007 11:16 AM
- TitleIX said...
case and point!
- October 18, 2007 11:17 AM
- Dex said...
i absolutely would have bought a YSU shirt. and i would have called my friend at OSU once a week, every week, for the rest of my life, whenever I saw the YSU score on espn.
- October 18, 2007 11:19 AM
- TitleIX said...
I'm with you.
I would have been replete with YSU Penguin gear AND would have mailed some to my tOSU friends....
oh wait.
NO App State stuff my way PLEASE@!
- October 18, 2007 11:25 AM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
Twatt09 - Save the vitriol for Nov. 17th. You'll need it to face all those marshmallows. Just because Michigan fans don't throw feces and batteries at opposing fans and burn furniture doesn't mean we don't care. Go troll somewhere else.
OSU has never had class, save a few readers. I will go to any Big Ten stadium and have fun, except that toilet in Columbus. People there take the game way too seriously. Honestly, these are 20-year olds that bucknuts have become so emotionally invested in that they'd injure an opposing fan over. Grow up asshats!
Yeah its damn embarrassing to lose to Appy State and it sucks. But it takes pure idiocy to put that up after getting shellacked by the team you are mocking.
- October 18, 2007 11:27 AM
- Andy said...
Schwatt: Welcome to the site. You are continuing a long line of buckeye fans educating us poor Michigan fans on how pathetic our program is.
I personally look forward to your thoughtful insight, superior football knowledge, and creative humor. Good luck in efforts to enlighten Wolverine fans everywhere and change the standard image we have of Ohio State fans.
Please feel free to stop by anytime as you are always welcome here.
- October 18, 2007 11:29 AM
- WingRG said...
i will take exception to you calling the 'Shoe a toilet bowl, while you're (and righfully so) chastising that idiot for mocking the Big House. If you have so much more class than us Buckeye fans, why don't you demonstrate some, instead of sinking to that dumb-ass's level.
- October 18, 2007 11:38 AM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
I lost my classiness when I moved to ohio.
- October 18, 2007 11:55 AM
- The Dude said...
Hehe what's funny is you guys think Schwat is a buckeye fan, hehe I know him and he ain't. I like how this went from making fun of Michigan for losing to App State to "Well we're (Michigan fans) smarter than you (OSU fans)" especially when you're target ISN'T even a OSU fan and for the record he does have a more prestigeous degree than any of yours. Ivy league anyone? Who's smarter? the guy who riles up the Michigan fans anonymously without revealiing his loyalties, or the person who falls for the bait? Nice work, Michigan, Hail to the Victors!!
- October 18, 2007 11:55 AM
- Andy said...
It must be troll season
- October 18, 2007 11:59 AM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
So Twat is an Ivy-league brainiac that anonymously trolls college football sites to piss off fans? Yeah, that's a real show of his intelligence.
All us simple Big Ten folk know that Ivy League is as much nepotism and grade fixing as it's real education. So these lofty claims of brain-busting degrees are not impressive - and most likely, a bunch of bullshit.
- October 18, 2007 12:05 PM
- WingRG said...
Even if the TWAT had a degree from MIT, he lacked 2 things: common sense and class.
- October 18, 2007 12:05 PM
- The Dude said...
Common sense and class? Seems like that post loses credibility when you start it with an inappropriate term for a part of the female anatomy, now that's class, good work Michigan! You can't be serious...
- October 18, 2007 12:08 PM
- The Dude said...
Actually it's not trolling when you get directed here from deadspin.com. It's funny how the nation is mocking you. But continue Michigan, would you like another shovel to help dig that hole?
- October 18, 2007 12:10 PM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
And by bullshit, I mean a lie. Anyone can come on here and claim to be a Nobel laureate, anonymously. If he was so well educated, he could at least punctuate his posts correctly (the "shift" key makes capital letters). From his writings it appears as if he is an uneducated malcontent with a penchant for making noise.
- October 18, 2007 12:11 PM
- WingRG said...
Now, who's the dumb one? You think i'm a UM fan? You might have an Ivy League education, but you surely can't read. As far as me calling you (cuz i'm pretty sure you and the TWAT are the same person) "an innapropriate term for a part of female anatomy" i'll call you what i want to call you. You got a lot of balls to question my credibility, buddy.
- October 18, 2007 12:12 PM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
I never claimed to be the king of Class. I'd probably be the guy pissing on your rug, Dude. By the way, its funny that you use that handle, when you definitely are not as cool as The Dude. He'd be out rolling a game as high as a kite, not trolling the Michigan blogs to get a rise.
- October 18, 2007 12:14 PM
- The Dude said...
It's hard to question credibility if you know one has none. But ok brother. Do you think I care if you like UM or whoever? Nice civilized conversation we have here. Just hurl some explotives at me and beat your wife.
- October 18, 2007 12:17 PM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
Its foolish to ask if one thinks you care if we like Michigan. It's self-evident that you care by the simple fact that you come here and post to get a rise. If you didn't care that we are Michigan fans, then you wouldn't even troll here.
- October 18, 2007 12:22 PM
- WingRG said...
Oh, i'm sorry, i guess your idea of civilized conversation is to come someplace and call your host's fooball stadium a "craphouse". I'll make sure i keep that in mind. When you come in and disrespect people that frequent this blog, you remove any possibility of being engaged in a civilized discussion. I don't know how many times i have to keep typing it, for you to get it.
"Those who want respect, give respect"
- October 18, 2007 12:28 PM
- Catie said...
I really don't find pot stirrers as intelligent people, insecurity is their big trade mark. You Dude, are a pot stirrer, and your behavior does not show respect or intelligence. This post started as a look at what was a classless act by some guys from Purdue. We have laughed at ourselves over the Appy State loss, probably more than anyone else. We get that it is a joke, nevertheless, for a team that was totally creamed by us, it shows incredible stupidity to post that. That is all that is being said here, then the pot stirrers arrived and began a another classless act. Get Lost.
- October 18, 2007 12:30 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
Did I miss anything?
- October 18, 2007 1:26 PM
- Yost said...
You and me both, WS. This is what I get for doing my job and attending that damn TPS report meeting this today.
Ok, time to be "the filter guy" from this point forward.
Who knew "Ivy League" trolls could be so witty.
- October 18, 2007 1:37 PM
- kristy said...
Can't we all just get along? Is it time for some people to take naps?!I love coming to this site for all the comedy and banter and this string of posts has gotten overly serious and ugly.
Time out everyone. Back to your corners and deep breaths....
- October 18, 2007 2:03 PM
- kristy said...
screw this- I'm going back to the eye candy from Hawaii!!
Feel free to post more pictures of the eye candy persuasion!!
- October 18, 2007 2:10 PM
- Yost said...
Hey, wing and other Buck regulars,
I'm quick to criticize and I just want to be as quick to say thanks for attempting to keep things civilized while I was away this morning during our troll infestation.
You guys sticking up for Michigan, me sticking up for our Buck readers here. What the fuck kind of world do we live in these days, people?!
- October 18, 2007 2:30 PM
- WingRG said...
not a problem (i'm glad you're back, though).
- October 18, 2007 2:32 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
"You guys sticking up for Michigan, me sticking up for our Buck readers here. What the fuck kind of world do we live in these days, people?!"
My first inclination is to scan the eastern sky.
- October 18, 2007 3:00 PM
- TitleIX said...
- October 18, 2007 3:24 PM
- Unknown said...
hell has frozen over ... no no wait the temp in columbus is 77-deg in mid-Oct. Sorry to cause a panic there.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
- October 18, 2007 3:40 PM
All we need is some U of Fla fans to stop by to continue stirring the pot.
BTW, where's Sparty been lately... they've been awfully quiet since the B10 season started.
- October 18, 2007 3:44 PM
- Catie said...
It is safe to return!
I am grateful for our regular tOSU guys, you all rock!
- October 18, 2007 4:42 PM
- WingRG said...
you did pretty well for yourself, you don't take no shit off nobody, that's for sure.
- October 18, 2007 5:10 PM
- Hemlock Philosopher said...
I agree. It was Katie's stern comment that stopped the nonsense.
- October 18, 2007 5:12 PM
- Catie said...
Thanks guys! It's the mother in me ;o) There are some incredibly witty people here. T9 is one of them that always impresses me with her wit! (Among many others of course!)
- October 18, 2007 6:02 PM
- beast in 'bama said...
Wet Rock Buck: you've got my vote for "poster of the day" - for whatever it's worth. Things certainly have been lively here today... must mean November isn't far away.
Oh, and happy 79th birthday to Keith Jackson.
- October 18, 2007 6:02 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
Damn it, people, it's a trap! For all you know the tosu "regulars" created fake IDs, logged on & said nasty things, then logged back on as themselves to appear to be reasonable, thus luring us into a false sense of security and eventually getting Yost to let his guard down.
Believe me! Santa,the Easter Bunny, & "reasonable" buckeyes all live in the same place- imagination.
- October 18, 2007 7:42 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
"Damn it, people, it's a trap! For all you know the tosu "regulars" created fake IDs, logged on & said nasty things, then logged back on as themselves to appear to be reasonable, thus luring us into a false sense of security and eventually getting Yost to let his guard down."
I wondered when this would surface.
I feel compelled to defend myself and the other "regulars," but my unmarked black helicopter needs servicing.
By the way, is my tin hat off-center? Being good starts with looking good.
- October 18, 2007 8:45 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
What a cotten-picken' minute.
You mean...there's...no...SANTA?
- October 18, 2007 9:12 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
I know YOU are up to something. now YOU know that i know that you are up to something. but what you don't know is that i know that you know that i know that you know that i know that you are up to something, you know?
time for the x-files. and remember- i know.
BTW- McGuffie is on the Deuce (the high school stadium seats 11,000), for the truly dedicated(or truly paranoid- you know who you are, and so do i).
- October 18, 2007 9:20 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
I knew that.
- October 18, 2007 9:29 PM
- WingRG said...
the only problem with your logic is that all the posts are traceable (sp?) by either the domain from which the user logs on or their IP. So, either me and WSBuck can exist in several different places at the same time (which is impossible even for the "evil Bucknuts") or you're a little paranoid :-)
But, of course, since we're on the UM site it's us, it's not you.
- October 18, 2007 10:32 PM
- surrounded in columbus said...
you could all have multiple computers signed in under multiple IDs creating multiple blogger names. picture you all now in your lairs/mothers' basements w/ multiple screens/pc's/game cubes, wearing your troy smith jerseys, photo shopped pic of you and tressel in the back grounds...
and just cause i'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me.
besides, whetstone never makes eye contact and wngrg is always looking down at the ground,shifting his weight from one foot to the other, and even you two suspect srudoff, so what's to trust?
- October 18, 2007 11:12 PM
- whetstonebuck said...
"So, either me and WSBuck can exist in several different places at the same time (which is impossible even for the "evil Bucknuts")"
Uh, thanks for coming to the rescue, but I can, well, what I'm trying to say is...hmmm. Things are not always as they appear. Okay, here goes: I can be several places at once. Now, that's just between you and me so keep it on the down low.
Whatever you do don't tell SiC. He's on to me. I purposely don't make eye contact with him. To do so would reduce him to a heap of maize and blue ashes.
- October 19, 2007 1:15 AM
- Mikoyan said...
Did I hear X-files?
- October 19, 2007 2:13 AM
- WingRG said...
SiC, WSBuck,
Tony (to Junior S.): "So you're like a double agent?"
- October 19, 2007 7:39 AM


text:
Leather Checkbook Wallet, Black only
Contact Supplier for pricing
Supplier Details
Verified Supplier (2005)
[ Bridgeville, Pennsylvania, United States ]
Business Type: Wholesaler, Dropshipper
Supplier has 1,492 products
Product Description
Checkbook Wallet, can be used as boot wallet
Basic Information
United States
Business Type:
Wholesaler, Dropshipper
Year Established:
Total Employees:
11 - 50
About Us
Western Express, Inc. is a whole distributor of a wide variety of cowboy hats, country western accessories, and other products. We ship worldwide.
Member History
Year Joined:
Membership Type:
Verified Supplier
Send Supplier a Message
You must be signed in to contact this supplier.
Not a Member?
Already a member? Sign In

subset: commoncrawl


text: Far be it from me to be opposed to dog nudity (assuming she's good looking, of course). I must say, however, that dog clothes can add a certain something to a dog's presence. A perfectly cut hem, a splash of color and a sunny disposition allow dog clothes to affect a certain rise in one's social prospects, no? In our quest for the perfect dog clothes, we have sniffed the crotches of designers in New York, France and Italy to bring you only the absolute finest in designer dog clothing. You're welcome. BaxterBoo has the world's largest selection of dog clothes. Possibly even the universe's largest selection of dog clothes. We're still waiting to hear back from our dog clothing emissaries in the Running Dog Nebula. But even if someone out there has a better selection of dog clothes, it's a good bet that their delivery times will be a hair over 20 years.


text:
Canucks shake things up, land centre Derek Roy in trade with Dallas Stars, re-sign Chris Higgins to four-year deal
Deal 'gives us more flexibility … We're still looking to be active,' says GM Mike Gillis
'I was really excited to hear the news I got traded to a great organization like Vancouver,' Derek Roy said from Dallas after being dealt away by the Stars. 'Things didn't work out the way we planned here with Dallas.'
Photograph by: Glenn James , NHLI via Getty Images files
VANCOUVER — Centre Derek Roy is coming, left-winger Chris Higgins is staying and the Vancouver Canucks are still trying to make more moves to strengthen their roster for the NHL's stretch run and playoffs.
A trade for Roy led off Tuesday's events as he was obtained from the Dallas Stars for a second-round pick in the 2013 entry draft plus minor-league defenceman Kevin Connauton.
The team then signed Higgins, 29, to a four-year contract extension worth $10 million, the deal kicking in next season.
General manager Mike Gillis was also deeply involved in talks on hulking San Jose left-winger Ryane Clowe, who eventually went to the New York Rangers for a second-round pick, a third-round pick and a conditional second-round pick.
The NHL trade deadline is Wednesday at noon Pacific time.
With Ryan Kesler expected back soon from his broken foot, the Canucks seem reasonably solid at the centre-ice position and can look to bolster their depth at wing and right-side defence. Gillis, of course, has one big chip to play in netminder Roberto Luongo.
"I liked a lot of things about the Derek Roy trade," explained the GM. "I like the fact he's a winner and an MVP at the Memorial Cup (2003). I like his points per game average. I like his playmaking ability and the opportunity to add another layer of offence.
"It also gives us more flexibility. Instead of being focused on that one piece of the puzzle, we can now look at other areas we'd like to strengthen, and other possibilities and maybe three-way deals or something along those lines. We're still looking to be active."
Roy, 5-9 and a left shot, will likely slot into a third-line role behind Henrik Sedin and Kesler, once the latter returns. Roy is 29 and on an expiring contract worth a pro-rated $4 million this season. Talks between the Stars and Roy on a contract extension did not produce an agreement, putting him on the trade market.
"I was really excited to hear the news I got traded to a great organization like Vancouver," Roy said from Dallas after the deal was announced. "Things didn't work out the way we planned here with Dallas."
Higgins has played against Roy both in the minors and at the NHL level and provided a solid scouting report on him.
"I've seen a lot of him," said Higgins. "He's a real savvy player with the puck and he makes some really smart passes out there. He likes to win pucks in the corner and he's good around the net so he'll be a great addition for us."
Higgins, of course, was also delighted with his new deal. Despite his New York roots, he feels at home on the West Coast.
"Throughout the year, I told my agent that if you and the team talk, I'd obviously be interested in returning and then things started heating up the last couple of days," he explained. "I'm absolutely thrilled that it got done. I really enjoy playing for this organization and I have a lot of respect for the guys on the team. It made the choice a little bit easier knowing the type of character we have here."
The Canucks consider Higgins an invaluable "seventh forward," a player who can move up and down the depth chart depending on need.
"Chris is a highly versatile player, he can play in a lot different situations and he's been a very good player for us since we acquired him," said Gillis. "In a normal season, he'd be well on his way to 20-25 goals."
Roy was originally drafted 32nd overall in 2001 by the Buffalo Sabres, where he spent eight seasons. His best year was 2007-08 when he scored 32 goals and collected 81 points. He has also had seasons of 70 and 69 points but dipped down to 44 points last year.
He was dealt to the Stars last summer for Steve Ott and Adam Pardy. In 30 games with Dallas, Roy scored four times and added 18 assists. He had six points in his last five games. He said a lingering groin injury caused him to miss some games with the Stars but that he was completely healthy again. He also had off-season shoulder surgery.
"The shoulder has been great," Roy said. "I had some groin issues and they finally went away the last five or six games so I'm ready to join the Canucks in a healthy position."
Roy will wear No. 15 even though Zack Kassian, currently in the minor with the Chicago Wolves, offered him the No. 9 that Roy wore during his Buffalo days. He was No. 11 in Dallas. Roy and Kassian were teammates in Buffalo for a brief period.
"I talked to Kassian but I won't be taking that number from him," Roy said. "He's a good kid. It's been first class so far and I've heard only good things about the organization."
Roy, a bilingual native of Ottawa, admitted he doesn't know much about the Canucks or the players but expects to easily fit in. He was philosophical about having to switch teams for the second time in less than a year.
"We're professional athletes and that's what we do," he said. "This is a business, as we know. It's pretty easy to move. All hockey players are nice guys and accommodating. Hopefully, I can do all those things they wanted me for and do all those things that made me successful throughout my career and that will help lead to some wins and, hopefully, a Stanley Cup."
Connauton, the player going to Dallas, is a former Vancouver Giant and was the Canucks' third-round pick (83rd overall) in the 2009 draft. A hard-shooting left-side blueliner, Connauton had seven goals and 18 assists for the AHL Wolves. Connauton, 23, has not played a game in the NHL and spent all three of his professional seasons in the minors.
ICE CHIPS: The Canucks sent rookie centre Jordan Schroeder back to the Wolves. The 22-year-old had no points in his last four games after a four-game point streak. Overall, he had nine points in 31 games ... Eighth defenceman Cam Barker was placed on waivers..


text:
1961 Article "Lessons in Judo for Juveniles"
Life Magazine Article
Heritage Bookseller
AbeBooks Member Since 1996
Heritage Bookseller
AbeBooks Member Since 1996
About this Item
Bibliographic Details
Title: 1961 Article "Lessons in Judo for Juveniles"
Publisher: Life Magazine
Publication Date: 1961
Binding: magazine
Book Condition: Very Good
Dust Jacket Condition: No Dust Jacket
Store Description
Check, MC, Visa, American Express, Discover.
We ship within 24 hours so if you order your book today, it will be shipped
tomorrow. Gift wrapping, if requested, is free!
We ship media mail in the US unless requests are made for faster shipping.
Overseas, it is first class or priority as requested.
If you require special shipping please specify.
Shipping costs are based on books weighing 2.2 LB, or 1 KG. If your book
is heavy or oversized, we may contact you to let you know extra shipping is
Payment Methods
accepted by seller
Direct Debit (Personally Authorized Payment) Cash PayPal


text:
PEACHTREE ESTATE SALES is in JONESBORO for 2 DAYS!!
estate sale•2 day sale •sale is over
Sep 28
9am to 3pm
Sep 29
9am to 3pm
CASH/ Debit-Credit only -- 3% added to all cards.
Come prepared to take your items home with you.
Peachtree Estate Sales does charge sales tax
Now that I have your attention...We are in Lake Spivey Golf Club subdivision. It's an enormous "tub" sale. Come see what's in all these tubs!! We have china (24 place settings), sofas, lamps, bowls, speakers, lawn furniture, umbrellas, all sorts of decorative items for your home and MORE, MORE, MORE!!
9-3 Thursday, September 28
9-3 Friday, September 29
8225 Seven Oaks Drive
Jonesboro, GA 30236
You know the drill.
Please READ BELOW:
***ALL SALES ARE FINAL!*** It's up to YOU to plug something in, try it out, etc. This is not kindergarten friends. (Although I really did love kindergarten. Just sayin')
NO PRESALES over the PHONE unless OTHERWISE STATED:
Peachtree Estate Sales DOES charge sales tax –ALL SALES ARE FINAL! – 3% charge on all cc/debit cards in addition to the sales charge.
*Keep our sales orderly! Do not 'dump' items out of things, if you move something put it back!
BE RESPECTFUL to one another — it's just 'stuff'. No need to be ugly or rude to another customer. If we feel you continue to have aggressive behavior or don't use your 'MANNERS' we will ask you to leave.
All LARGE items are priced, and smaller ones of significant monetary value. All smaller items are priced in a 'group' pricing. Make a stack of all items at checkout and we will give you a price on your group of items. Happy Treasure Hunting! Woot! Woot!
**Parking — Can only park on ONE side of the street ONLY! Park on the side of the street that house is located on. Do not block driveways or mailboxes, please. Thanks!
NO CHECKS ACCEPTED – CASH OR CREDIT/DEBIT ONLY (3% added for all cards)
*Because of the many people who attend our sales, questions re: individual items are very hard to answer —- just come to the sale!
We accept CASH/CREDIT – Debit run as credit (add 3% on all cards)
Come prepared to take your items home SAME DAY.
For insurance purposes, staff members are not able to carry heavy/large items for you.
You must arrange for your own people to carry/load/deliver your items.
We price 'to sell' the first day and throughout the length of the sale.
We have the 'right' to go through any bags you bring into the sale.
Peachtree Estate Sales is not responsible for accidents nor is the homeowner.
**Children must remain with parents at ALL times.
Bring bags/totes/boxes/newspapers for wrapping — to help with your items. We do not provide these.
If we SELL OUT of items before the end of sale time, we will close the sale down early.
We APPRECIATE our customers – and thank you for coming to our estate sales!
Please note – owners may remove items that were originally to be part of the sale for whatever reason. We apologize if this happens. We know you come for certain items. We try our best to make sure we are as accurate as possible with our photos and advertising.
Thank you for using EstateSales.NET. You're the best!


text:
Find Our Latest Video Reviews on YouTube!
If you want to stay on top of all of our video reviews of the latest tech, be sure to check out and subscribe to the Gear Live YouTube channel, hosted by Andru Edwards! It's free!
Top 10: Arrow On The CW
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Television, DC Comics,
Are you looking forward to Arrow as much as any other comic book or archery fan?
It debuts October 10 on the CW. Arrow is loosely-based on Green Arrow, the venerable and outspoken liberal DC Comics' super-hero blessed with the powers of a longbow.
The mark of any successful show is whether or not fans can start quoting favorite lines like they do for Monty Python, The Simpsons and, of course, Mike And Molly.
Our spies at Comix 411 were able to get a copy of the script for the first episode and gave it an immediate reading to see what dialogue gems lurked inside. What we found are 10 sample dialogue snippets from Arrow that we're hoping will catch on as easily as Monty Python's "It's just a flesh wound," The Simpsons' "Batman was a scientist" and Mike And Molly's "You gonna eat that?"
Click to continue reading Top 10: Arrow On The CW
Read More | Arrow
Bullet In The Face: Alan Spencer & Alex Maleev
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Television, Marvel Comics,
One of the shows that I'm really looking forward to is Alan Spencer's Bullet In The Face. It debuts on IFC on August 16.
And why am I looking forward to it? Just one reason, really: it's Alan Spencer. He created the great Sledge Hammer! sitcom and based solely on that, he gets a free pass from me for life - I'll check out anything he's involved in. Plus, this stars Eddie Izzard and Eric Roberts.
To promote his new show, Alan took to Facebook and posted the following: "Here's something I'm proud to share. IFC's publicity team made a classy move by commissioning Alex Maleev to create this artwork for Bullet In The Face. The artist cited Robert McGinnis' posters for James Bond as an inspiration, making this doubly meaningful… or shall I say 007 meaningful."
Maleev, of course, is perhaps best known for his work on Daredevil with Brian Bendis. Looking at his poster for BITF, all I can think is that he should do more.
Click to continue reading Bullet In The Face: Alan Spencer & Alex Maleev
Roger Slifer Could Use A Hand
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Television, DC Comics, Marvel Comics,
You've probably seen this all over the internets, but a little more won't hurt. Veteran comic book writer Roger Slifer was hit by a car this past weekend.
Roger worked for both DC (where he created Lobo) and Marvel (where he worked on Avengers and Marvel Two-In-One), and later produced and/or story-edited the TV shows Jem And The Holograms, Transformers, Street Fighter and others.
Here's the story, as reported by Flint Dille:
"Roger Slifer is in intensive care after being run over in a hit and run on Friday Night around 1:00. We had originally thought of keeping this quiet, because Roger is a fairly private guy, but as word is out and time might be of the essence if we're going to find the hit-and-run driver, I'll post what I know.
Click to continue reading Roger Slifer Could Use A Hand
Latest Gear Live Videos
- Subscribe:
- YouTube
- iTunes High Definition
- iTunes Standard Version
Weekend Reading: Avengers, Alan Moore and Don McGregor
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Movies, Television, DC Comics, Marvel Comics,
A friend of mine has a bet that The Avengers' will gross $2 billion (with a "b") by the end of the year, so I guess we're all still talking about Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
If you're still talking about them, Longbox Graveyard looks at Thanos and The Infinity Gauntlet.
Then LG's honcho Paul O'Connor passes along this link with everything you need to know about Thanos.
Alan Moore, critical of movies made from his comics, is writing his own movie, which I hope someone adapts into a comic.
It's never too late to read a story or two from Don McGregor about his father.
My pal Steven Thompson has been streamlining his collection and just recently posted a bunch of great bargains at Booksteve's Bookstore: Kirby, Captain Marvel, Robert Crumb, Superman, Batman, Wonder Wart-Hog...you can't go wrong!
Click to continue reading Weekend Reading: Avengers, Alan Moore and Don McGregor
Planet Of The Apes, Back To The Future And James Bond!
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Movies, Television, Independent,
My pal Rich Handley at Hasslein Publishing has a big favor to ask. He publishes a great bunch of books on shows and movies like Planet of the Apes, Back To The Future, James Bond, Red Dwarf and lots of others. He's asked for a no-cost favor, so I'm posting it here, mostly verbatim.
"Paul and I at Hasslein Publishing are trying to qualify for one of 12 small-business grants from Chase in order to build up Hasslein into something bigger than it currently is. We need 250 votes within an eight-day period to qualify, so please vote before June 30!
"Each grant is for a whopping $250,000. It's a huge long-shot, as I'm sure a lot of people are submitting their companies to this program, but if we were to win one of the grants, we'd have a ton of money to do amazing things with our company, which would be a good thing.
Click to continue reading Planet Of The Apes, Back To The Future And James Bond!
Unbound: Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Drew Struzan, Kaluta, Chaykin
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Movies, Reviews, Television, Independent,
Interested in a book that features Mike Mignola (Hellboy), Drew Struzan (Shawshank Redemption, Indiana Jones), Duncan Fegredo, Frank Quitely, Walter Simonson, Chris Weston, and Howard Chaykin? Of course you are. Then you're in luck. My buddy Joel Meadows is prepping the 20th anniversary edition of Tripwire, his comics/TV/movies magazine, in a beautifully crafted 200-page hardcover book.
Says Meadows: "It will be filled with the sort of content that has garnered praise from many of the biggest and best names in genre over its twenty-year existence."
Click to continue reading Unbound: Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Drew Struzan, Kaluta, Chaykin
The Situation Makes A Comic Book
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Television, Wizard Entertainment,
What's the biggest comic book coming out this year? Is it Before Watchmen? AvsX? Archer & Armstrong?
Nope, the most exciting news out of comics this year is that The Situation, the gym-tan-laundry rehabbing co-star of Jersey Shore, is putting out his own series, in association with Wizard.
Not many details have been released about the series yet, but our imbedded industry spies have revealed to Comix 411 that a number of new characters will be debuting.
Here then are the Top 10 new characters featured in The Situation's upcoming comic:
(10) The Macaroni Rascal
(9) Hook-Up
Click to continue reading The Situation Makes A Comic Book
Read More | The Situation
Comic Book Jobs: Concept Artist
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Movies, Television,
Who wouldn't want to work in New Zealand (that's the place where Peter Jackson filmed Lord Of The Rings).
Oktobor Animation is now accepting "portfolio and reel submissions for super-cool digital concept artists for pre-production including character, prop, and environment design on interactive, transmedia and CG animation projects."
That's fine, but what kind of thing are they looking for? They'd "love to see fantastical and epic environments, creatures, stylized characters, robots, vehicles, etc."
If that sounds like a lot like comic book work, you're not far off. Concept art for movies, TV shows and animation looks a lot like comic book art. And what are comic book artists if not conceptual artists?
Applicants need to be self motivated, and able to adapt to different styles with a great sense of lighting, color and composition. But my favorite is this: "a strong knowledge of anatomy and proportion, human and creature."
Click to continue reading Comic Book Jobs: Concept Artist
Read More | Concept Artist
Comic Book Jobs: Checking Out Craigslist
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Conventions, Editorials, Movies, Television, Independent,
Regular readers know how much I love the craigslist, the big box store of odd comic book jobs, and this week is no exception!
Some producers in New York are looking for an "American Comic Book Geek" for a Japanese TV program promoting the new Avengers movie.
A new band in Manhattan called The Super Friends needs a bass player.
Are you an actor who wants to be in a superhero hip-hop music video? "The actor does not have to rap, just act."
Click to continue reading Comic Book Jobs: Checking Out Craigslist
Comic Book Jobs: Nelvana
Posted by Tom Mason Categories: Editorials, Television,
Do you love the animated cartoons? Of course you do.
This isn't technically a comic book job, but if you have some comic book skills, you could handle it. Nelvana, the Canadian animation powerhouse, is looking for an Art/Design Coordinator for one of their animated series (name unknown, for now). It's a 12-month position, which isn't bad in the world of television animation. You'll report to the Art Director and be "responsible for providing administrative assistance to the Design and Art team" on the series.
What does that mean?
Just the following: "Provide administrative support to Art Director, Assistant Art Director, Design Supervisor; Act as a liaison for all activities relating to the Art/Design Teams; Review Scripts/Boards to prepare Design Lists," and quite a bit more in terms of administrative and managerial.
Click to continue reading Comic Book Jobs: Nelvana
© Gear Live Inc. {year} – User-posted content, unless source is quoted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Public Domain License. Gear Live graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, videos, articles, blogs, forums, scripts and other service names are the trademarks of Gear Live Inc.


text:
"Gangster Squad" director Rueben Fleischer was stepping out of the shower on the night of July 20 last year when he received a chilling phone call from a studio executive at Warner Bros. There had been a deadly shooting at a midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora, Colo. The studio was pulling the trailer for its "Gangster Squad" movie.
The problem was that the preview, which had been scheduled to debut before some showings of the latest Batman film that weekend, featured a peek at a pivotal moment in the 1940s true-crime romp when Los Angeles mobsters ruthlessly shoot into a movie theater audience.
Thus began an arduous odyssey to the screen of a film loosely based on violence 60 years ago impacted by the real-life violence of today — from the Colorado massacre that forced the reshooting of a key scene, through the country's mourning following the Connecticut elementary school shooting last month, to this week's replaying of the July theater horror in a Colorado courtroom just as the film prepares to finally open on Friday.
U.S. & World
Fleischer couldn't initially process what was happening in that moment when he was on the phone last summer but eventually, everyone involved with "Gangster Squad" agreed: The scene was just too similar and had to be cut — not just from the trailer, but also from the movie, which was set for release two months later.
"Many conversations followed that, and we talked about it and very quickly decided that the appropriate action would be to take the scene out of the movie out of respect for the families who suffered that loss in the tragedy," said Fleischer. "Because we didn't know when we were gonna come out or what was happening, we decided we have to come up with a new scene."
So the entire movie theater sequence featuring Josh Brolin's hard-boiled cop John O'Mara being ambushed inside famed Hollywood movie palace Grauman's Chinese Theater was excised from "Gangster Squad."
For many of the film's cast and crew members, it was their favorite scene in the highly stylized gangster flick, which tells the tale of the real-life tussle between off-the-books LA police officers and an army of mobsters.
"I was really impressed with Rueben (cutting the scene) because it was the best scene in the movie," said Ryan Gosling, who plays reluctant squad member Jerry Wooters. "There was an alchemy about it. Everything came together. It was the most cinematic part of the film because it happened in a cinema, as well, but there was just something special about it."
The scene was filmed over four nights at the real Grauman's and outside on Hollywood Boulevard, where the shootout between the squad and the goons of mob boss Mickey Cohen (played by Sean Penn) spilled out. The iconic theater and surrounding area was meticulously transformed for the action sequence with vintage vehicles and extras clad in period costumes.
"It was really eerie," Brolin said of the original scene's parallel to the real-life shooting in Aurora. "I respected and supported the decision immediately. It's still a violent replacement. It just happens in Chinatown. It's just as violent. It just doesn't remind you of this thing that happened. It's probably going to anyway because everyone knows it's been replaced."
Several members of the cast and crew reassembled nearly a year after filming completed on "Gangster Squad" to shoot the new sequence in LA's Chinatown section just north of downtown.
The scene, which cost several million dollars to reshoot, fits seamlessly into the film and functions narratively in the same way as the original: Brolin's O'Mara is ambushed, only this time by an exploding laundry truck instead of gun-toting gangsters.
The film's debut this week coincidentally comes at the same time that 25-year-old James Holmes, who is charged with killing 12 people and injuring 70 in the July theater shooting, is appearing at a weeklong preliminary hearing to determine whether the case will be sent to trial.
"The tragedy that everyone suffered in Colorado is so much greater than having to change a scene in a movie," said Fleischer. "I'm not gonna begin to say that I suffered as a result, just in context, it's inappropriate. We just said, 'We have to do this.' Luckily, all the actors made themselves available, and we got together and we figured it out together."
There are no current plans for the original scene to resurface, but Fleischer said he would eventually like to see it put back into "Gangster Squad" one day.
The filmmakers are also hopeful that audiences in search of entertainment this weekend won't have any issues separating recent real-life gun violence from the bullet-ridden adventures depicted in "Gangster Squad."
"This isn't a movie promoting violence," said "Gangster Squad" producer Dan Lin. "It's a movie about unsung heroes. These characters were real guys who were doing the right thing, stopping gangsters and saving the city that we all love. Yes, in the cause of trying to save your city and take down the bad guys, sometimes the cops had to use guns."


text:
66 comments:
- Unknown said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- 21 October 2010 at 12:30
- Unknown said...
See Jenny Jones comments on The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/
- 21 October 2010 at 12:32
- Brockley Nick said...
Thanks and I can certainly believe that's the probable outcome - but would Lewisham import (as a relatively affordable borough) or export poverty (as an inner London borough), in this scenario? How many people will be forced to move? And will they move within Lewisham or elsewhere? What does all this mean for waiting lists, etc?
- 21 October 2010 at 12:34
- Graham said...
Some people were fearing 80% cuts so the 50% cuts have been viewed as positive and does mean that the HCA will be able to fulfill their current commitments so the affordable housing/regeneration and stock transfer schemes which are currently funded should be fine.
The rise in rents, needs to be fleshed out, but it will apply to new developments and new tenancies I understand. Without capital funding, this is the only alternative to ensure that some affordable housing is built in schemes with private housing.
The real area that needs to be explained is how these new rents will work with the Housing Benefit caps, in London. I think Housing Association's will be pragmatic in applying this because it is in their interest to keep non HB arrears down but still unlock some of the value in their stock to allow them to develop new homes.
Housing Associations in Lewisham are some of the strongest and best funded in London with L and Q, Hyde and Family Mosaic major players. So expect to see them taking a role in housing more of the "inbetweeners" in the Borough. (i.e. not social rented residents, but those that need help to purchase or raise a deposit) That said rents at 30% of market value, other than for those on existing tenancies look to be a thing of the past.
- 21 October 2010 at 12:41
- Matt-Z said...
I don't know what affect it will have on Lewisham - as Nick says we are something of an 'in-between' borough.
I do know that there is a surprising amount of social housing (council and housing association) in Brockley, both in and outside the conservation area, and not just the obvious GLA blocks like Syringe House. Much of the Victorian stock is carved up into council-let accommodation. The new policies will certainly lead to change on these roads as long-time council tenants are moved on (either downsized, or booted off council lists all together). Will they be able to stay in the borough or not?
I remember when cardboard city at Waterloo was still going (and embarrassing politicians). What chance a successor springs up in the next five years?
- 21 October 2010 at 12:51
- patrick1971 said...
Good to see some common sense (for a change) in the comments on that Guardian article. This pretty much sums it up: "To sum up, some people are effectively being given a pre-tax income of £77,000 for doing nothing, and people far poorer than that are paying for it through taxation. The chancellor claims this is unfair and you disagree. Right?<"
No one's paying any of us to live in central London. We moved to where we could afford.
- 21 October 2010 at 12:56
- Brockley Nick said...
@Patrick, while I agree on some levels, it does mean uprooting many people from their communities and their family homes.
Whilst it's true that those people who buy or rent their own homes at market prices have to move where their budget allows, they do at least have some freedom to choose where they go. Some of the people forced to move will be extremely vulnerable and will struggle to adapt to new surroundings, without local support networks.
Housing is a really difficult issue.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:00
- shrink the state said...
Good to see some common sense (for a change) in the comments on that Guardian article. This pretty much sums it up: "To sum up, some people are effectively being given a pre-tax income of £77,000 for doing nothing, and people far poorer than that are paying for it through taxation. The chancellor claims this is unfair and you disagree. Right?<"
No one's paying any of us to live in central London. We moved to where we could afford.
Just cutting and pasting Patrick's commetn, with which I totally agree.
How anyone can DISagree with the concept that working people are to encouraged and to be better off than those who don't, is beyond me.
I am also delighted to see the back of 500k public sector "workers" a.k.a. paper pushers and their pension schemes.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:03
- Brockley Nick said...
@Shrink the State - very enlightening, thanks.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:04
- shrink the state said...
@Patrick, while I agree on some levels, it does mean uprooting many people from their communities and their family homes.
Whilst it's true that those people who buy or rent their own homes at market prices have to move where their budget allows, they do at least have some freedom to choose where they go. Some of the people forced to move will be extremely vulnerable and will struggle to adapt to new surroundings, without local support networks.
Housing is a really difficult issue.
Nick, once people accept money from others, they have to accept restrictions and to do what they are damn well told. You know what? Some people MOVE and uproot their families to get work. Some parents commute really long distacnes to get a pitiful post tax and childcare pay, because they have pride and energy and guts. Why should those who don't work get anything in terms of housing? Most peopel would say shelter is a basic but start from zero provision and and work upwards. If you take help, be prepared for it not to include "central London near a tube and my mates".
It is not acceptable to live off the UK State (aka the working poor) any long, thank goodness.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:07
- patrick1971 said...
Take your point, Nick, but it just drives me mad when well-educated, liberal, upper middle class Guardian columnists start shrieking about "ethnic cleansing of the poor". The vast majority of people have to move to where they can afford, and one of the reasons people are so fed up with the housing benefit system in particular is because they see a small group of people freed from that necessity by huge payments. It just can't be right that people are paid more than the average wage just in housing benefit to keep them in Kensington. It just can't.
And (and I know this is going to make me sound like a totally heartless bastard) whenever I hear the word "vulnerable" alarm bells start to ring. It's become such a catch-all expression, but what does it actually mean? Mentally ill? Living alone? Poor (but in relation to whom)? Or does it mean someone who's lived in the same area for a long time? It's a bit of a catch-all.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:08
- Brockley Nick said...
"It is not acceptable to live off the UK State (aka the working poor) any long, thank goodness."
So if people are unable to find work (or incapable of it), they should just drop dead? And their children?
Look, I don't disagree that people who are in work shouldn't be worse-off than those who do not work. Nor do I deny that the benefits system leads to some undesirable outcomes.
But your arguments are cruel and facile.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:10
- patrick1971 said...
@Nick: "I don't disagree that people who are in work shouldn't be worse-off than those who do not work."
Agreed. And I think Osborne explicitly said this, didn't he? He definitely made some comment about it not being right that workers were paying taxes to pay people who didn't work higher "salaries" than the original worker (if that makes sense!), and that that was the philosophy that had underlined much of the welfare reform.
I think that's also what's annoying me about the tone of so much of the Guardian coverage. You'd think people were being flogged and sent out to sleep in the streets, rather than having to move to an area more suited to their means. I had an argument on another forum with someone who thought it was absolutely heinous that an under 35 year old claiming HB would be expected to live in shared accommodation rather than his/her own flat. Astounding. I lived in shared housing until I was 30, and many of my friends did so until 34/35.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:14
- Brockley Nick said...
Vulnerable means lots of the things you mention, yes.
Yesterday night, a guy who lives a few doors down from me asked me for help to write capital letters on his computer, so he could access his email. He didn't understand how to use a caps lock or a shift key and it took several attempts to explain it to him. I don't know his circumstances, but my guess is that he has learning difficulties and would struggle to find work. But his flat could be turned in to a fairly nice place for a working couple.
Should he be thrown out? Forced to live in a community where he doesn't have any access to help?
The questions get harder when you move from the abstract to the real. But reality has a well-known liberal bias.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:14
- patrick1971 said...
@Nick: "Forced to live in a community where he doesn't have any access to help?"
But again, what does that mean? That he should be housed in an area where there's a nice fellow down the road who can help him out? How do you ensure that? You can't make policy on that sort of anecdote. And the principle that someone not working shouldn't be better off than someone who is really needs to be the cornerstone of a safety-net welfare state, which is what we seem to want as a nation (c.f. Scandinavian models, where everyone's on some sort of welfare).
Although of course if you follow this principle to the letter you come up against the independently wealthy, who are arguably better off than people who are working... I'm sure a 500% tax on Peaches Geldof would be a great vote winner!
- 21 October 2010 at 13:19
- shrink the state said...
THose who CANNOT work are in a different category in my view (and that of the benefits system) than those who... you know...err just... don't errr whatever fancy getting up today.
THere are plenty of *unskilled jobs in London - why are people not moving here to take them? They should have to before any support is given.
It is time to start supporting those who deserve support.
* eg apparently, the entire workforce of Pret a Manger
- 21 October 2010 at 13:22
- Graham said...
Oh dear, this has turned into a rant off hasn't it.
Those in current social housing, will be ok - here is an excerpt from the CSR
'Social landlords will be able to offer a growing proportion of new social tenants new intermediate rental contracts that are more flexible, at rent levels between current market and social rents.'
Lets not let a liberal desire to rubbish the CSR get in the way of facts. This will not affect current tenants.
What it does do, is unlock revenue to enable Housing Associations to fund new developments.
If people want to discuss this further and whether it means that more Mantle Road's will be build (in which I think the shared ownership will sell in seconds)I happy to, otherwise I more than happy to read some more generalisations.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:25
- Brockley Nick said...
@Patrick - usually, what people mean by this is not uprooting people from the places they have grown up, where they will still have some family or friends or support from a social worker who has been working with them for a long time and understands their needs. When these services are also being squeezed, people can fall between the gaps...
As for the independently wealthy - yes, if taxes have to fall anywhere, they should be on wealth rather than earnings. Unfortunately, our Government consists of Tories who want to get rid of inheritance tax and LibDems who want to replace Council Tax on property values with a local income tax, to put more of the burden on those in work...
- 21 October 2010 at 13:26
- Brockley Nick said...
@Graham, I appreciate your contributions, so please keep them coming. I'm not trying to rubbish the CSR, just challenge some of the lazy generalisations being thrown around.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:27
- Monkeyboy said...
@shrinkthestate..... "once people accept money from others, they have to accept restrictions and to do what they are damn well told" I'll leave that comment sitting there like a ripe turd.
Also existing benefits will only increase with CPI which I think explicitly does not include housing inflation? Great.
I don't know about anyone else but it seems obvious to me thet ghetos - whether based on rich and poor, race or class can only lead to those positions being reinforced. Great
As for the undesrving poor, hypothetically, if you've been working for years, paying taxes and national insurance and find yourself unemployed. Should you do as your damn well told?
Mr Shrinks bird brained (see other thread) analysis would make The Star blush. Poverty, or not, is as much about luck and circumstance as anythink else.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:30
- Anonymous said...
Just to clear up the vulnerability issue, Lewisham Council's definition of a vulnerable person is anyone who is:
• is old and frail
• has learning or physical disabilities or difficulties
• has mental health problems
• cannot always take care of themselves or protect themselves without help.
- 21 October 2010 at 13:31
- Anonymous said...
so the cuts will not affect those groups in any way? super.....
- 21 October 2010 at 13:39
- Anonymous said...
Cat(rap)ford, seems an ideal location to "ring fence for social housing" and export too... and it seems the council have a shinny new shopping centre the Lewisham market, 99p and bettings shops can be moved into also!
- 21 October 2010 at 13:40
- Graham said...
Again, existing residents will not be affected and the HB caps are will generally not apply to those in council or housing association as these rents are so low anyway.
Affordable housing will be a challenge to provide in very high values areas, but even with the biggest funding settlement for affordable housing between 2008-11it was a massive challenge. The land economics of these sites are the problem, not some ideological drive.
Areas will not become ghettos or ring fenced for social housing. Housing associations are very innovative at providing affordable housing in a range of value areas. The CSR was really saying to them "ok then, we'll de-regulate a bit of what you do and we can't really afford to give you massive amount of cash, so use this to unlock the £15bn of capital expenditure you have budgeted for over the five years to build affordable housing".
It's quite innovative really, and require some form of trade off. So rushing in and seeing it as some kind of neo-liberal conspiracy is a poorly considered.
- 21 October 2010 at 14:02
- Graham said...
A bit like my spelling and grammar... Damn you typing and being on the phone!
- 21 October 2010 at 14:04
- Hermit said...
Depending who you are,you can bypass waiting lists.
- 21 October 2010 at 14:25
- Anonymous said...
I cant believe so many people get free houses in the UK, its hilarious. No wonder they dont bother working when they get a free flat/house in one of the most expensive cities in the world, free money from the Gov and then get paid for the more kids they have. Its brilliant here, I might just pack in my job and join them! What a great country!
- 21 October 2010 at 14:41
- max said...
It's a bewildering subject indeed, but please note the difference between "affordable homes" and "social housing".
It seems to me that affordable homes schemes have rather a lot in common with Thatcher's right to buy.
What's really needed are social housing for those that are actually poor and can't afford much at all and now live on housing benefits instad of a council flat or housing association flat therefore costing much more to the welfare system than if they had access to social housing.
And as much as we hear of people that thanks to housing allowances live where their support network is, there are also people that within the existing housing benefits system already have to move home every few months to cheaper and cheaper places every time the landlord of the day increases the rent.
Last consideration, it seems to me that both affordable housing and housing allowance may have a seerious inflationary on the cost of housing for everyone.
- 21 October 2010 at 15:04
- Lou Baker said...
I applaud the coalition government for trying to tackle benefits culture.
There is a part of society which is detached from
the rest. Where there is an expectation that you will get a council house. Where working is optional. These people need to be tackled head on.
Not least because they are effectively stealing
money from the poorest people in society. Those who genuinely can't work, those with learning difficulties, the frail, infirm and disabled get a rotten deal partly because so much of the country's huge welfare bill is spent in the wrong way.
It is scandalous, for example, that the rich should get winter fuel payments, free travel and the like. Child benefit
should never have been universal - and it should stop at 2 children. If you want more than that, you pay.
The whole system is totally messed up. Benefits should be a safety net to help society's least fortunate to help themselves. For far too many people they've actually become a lifestyle choice.
- 21 October 2010 at 15:36
- Anonymous said...
yes they all live in mansions and money to burn.
- 21 October 2010 at 16:20
- Anonymous said...
"cant believe so many people get free houses in the UK" Yes, if you loose your job, or can't find work you should try and find a roof over your head for free. The country would be much better off if we had 2 million people on the street. Look at Calcutta, it's brilliant there.
I'm proud that we look after the vunerable. Tipping people into the gutter is not the way to go, please grow up.
And Lou, stop with the the crocodile tears. You are the most selfish, ignorant man I've ever heard.
- 21 October 2010 at 16:27
- Anonymous said...
Funny how they suddenly try to address the Benefit problem now there is a recession,this has been going on for years.
- 21 October 2010 at 16:29
- bumbags said...
I don't think anyone disagrees with helping vulnerable people, but people do seem to fall on one side of this line or the other- people who look at what they are 'entitled' to from the government, and others who try to work hard to better their lot.
I have never had a high-paying job, but I would not accept money from the government on principle, unless I truly needed help. I would LOVE to live in Kensington, and can't afford to. The fact I'm paying taxes which support other people to live there is ludicrous. EVERYONE who pays tax should be outraged- especially the lower end of earners.
The government should be there to help people IN NEED of help. They could afford to do this much better if this culture of taking what you can stopped. £1000 a week cap in housing benefit?!?!?! Absolutely CRAZY it ever got to this level.
- 21 October 2010 at 16:57
- Anonymous said...
So how many get this grand a week? How many choose to live on £60 a week? Once again this assumption that theres a class of people living in clover. There will be some. Who can play the system, just as some like Philip green who play it from the other end. Bumbags, when your money runs out and you can't pay the mortgage don't expect much sympathy when your tipped into a b&b. It happens you know
- 21 October 2010 at 17:40
- Anonymous said...
I think some of those homeless people would love B&B.
- 21 October 2010 at 17:55
- Anonymous said...
Philip Green has done nothing illegal. Taking benefit you are not entitled to is.
- 21 October 2010 at 18:00
- Carys said...
Lou Baker said: "There is a part of society which is detached from the rest."
You're right. It's called the government.
Many of us see living in London as a privilege, having moved to the big city for whatever reason.
However, many people born here have grown up in poverty, extreme overcrowding and have been disadvantaged from day one. Not having to pay to live in a shitty overcrowded flat in a dodgy estate isn't the gift some people seem to think it is.
- 21 October 2010 at 18:21
- Tamsin said...
If public transport really were "public" free travel wouldn't be an issue. It would be something that as a matter of policy the benevolent state could supply to those who need or deserve it for minimal cash cost. How much extra did it actually cost London Transport to allow a freedom pass to pensioners given that it was at that time limited to off-peak travel?
The problem is that now that the franchises are let to private companies with squinty eyes on both the main chance and the bottom line the government are having to pay hand over fist to fulfil these promises. And so,understandably but regrettably, are baulking at the cost.
The rotten decisions were made two decades ago and there is very little that can be done about it now. All truly depressing.
- 21 October 2010 at 18:23
- bumbags said...
@anon Philip Green also creates hundreds of jobs, and pays an enormous amount in taxes.
There should be a cap on public money hand-outs- it is lower-earning workers that are subsidising people, which is wrong. A limit on housing benefit is fair. If you aren't working, you shouldn't expect to live in a nicer place than someone who is.
Also, why are you presuming I am a smug home-owner with a mortgage talking out of my behind? I can't afford to buy a property. I am in a low-cost privately rented flat in a nice, but cheap area. This is where I can afford. Why should some non-workers get to live in a nicer flat in a nicer area? ALSO, for the many hard-working people in high-rise council flats/estates etc this situation is even less fair. They work hard and pay tax to live in crowded conditions, while someone who is a bit more nifty at filling in forms gets a nice flat in a leafy street?! Even if only a few people are doing this, it shouldn't be allowed to happen.
- 21 October 2010 at 18:37
- Anonymous said...
So bumbags.... If and when your out of work, your savings dry up you'll do what? I'm happy for my taxes to pay you to retain some dignity and don't think you should be shipped out to a sink estate in thamesmead. Philip green pays a lot of taxes, he earns a lot of money. He should pay more, he evades it. Is tax evasion to be encouraged?
If the state gives you nothing or you stick to your "principles" and claim nothing you'll be living in a box.
- 21 October 2010 at 19:18
- Tim said...
Anonymous, when Bumbag is out of work, and his savings dry up he should take whatever job is available, and he should have been working hard at retraining in the interim. State support (benefits and housing) shouldn't be permanent.
People blame bankers for this economic crisis, and yes they made massive mistakes. But every single person who spent more than they could afford on a credit card, or who extended themselves by buying a place they can't really afford is also to blame. And Labour consistently fudged the "Golden Rule" year after year to spend more than the nation could afford. Ideological or not, these cuts are necessary. The nation just cannot afford anymore to have people getting free permanent housing in nice areas, and claiming benefits when there are jobs available (even if sh*tty). Benefits are a privilege, and people need to recognise that.
- 21 October 2010 at 20:28
- bubble said...
Kensingston (and other so called 'nice' areas) should house lower income people just as boroughs such as Lewisham have to.
I don't think ghettoes of rich people are particularly good for society any more than poor ones are. Bubbles cause trouble when they burst.
- 21 October 2010 at 20:46
- Tim said...
Why? I just don't understand why someone on benefits should get that flat in Kensington, when the council could rent or sell it privately, and earn good money to recycle into less desirable housing elsewhere.
Ghettos of rich people (which are extremely this country) are generally low crime, high tax paying areas, which strikes me as a pretty good thing.
- 21 October 2010 at 20:53
- Tim said...
*extremely rare in this country
- 21 October 2010 at 20:53
- max said...
"Ghettos of rich people (which are extremely this country) are generally low crime, high tax paying areas, which strikes me as a pretty good thing."
It's not the ghettos of rich people the problem, it's those of poor people that we should avoid.
- 21 October 2010 at 21:21
- bumbags said...
@anon- Tim is spot on. I would not expect long-term handouts unless I was physically unable to work. Emergency State help should be available for people who lose their jobs.
Not working should not make you better off than working. That seems a pretty obvious thing to say. Unemployment causes many social problems, and mental health issues, and we should absolutely give people who are out of work opportunities for free training and more support in finding work.
But I personally KNOW people who are the opposite of me- that they should milk the system for what they can. Many justify it by pointing the finger at rich people, at inequality, and imagining it's nasty rich bankers that are paying the bill. It isn't. It's all the millions of low-paid workers, and it's not fair.
If Philip Green is avoiding paying tax, he shouldn't be. The point I was making was that he is also generating a lot of wealth, and creating employment for thousands.
- 21 October 2010 at 22:00
- Anonymous said...
"Benefits are a privilege, and people need to recognise that."
For every very rich person paying to support benefit scroungers, there are 1000s of much poorer ones. There are bus drivers, guys working in the print room of your and my office, security guards etc, all with a wife and two children to support, in addition to contribing to the welfare state.
It is the hard working poor who we must support, partly because they deserve it and partly because if we don't help them, they will fall down and become part of our underclass of the nonworking poor.
- 21 October 2010 at 22:19
- Anonymous said...
Bumbags, stupid name.... Appropriate really. The undeserving poor is a convenient cliche for someone who dosnt give a shit. Wht if if you have no savings and there are no jobs? In your world, you sink. No health care, no pension, no free education.... Jobseekers allowance is 65 quid a week. Now you can't pay a market rent and feed yourself out of that, how about we kill them? Either that or they will be sleeping on the street or breaking into your house. See how it works?
- 21 October 2010 at 22:27
- Sting said...
Im an Englishman, im a legal Englishman im an Englishman living in New Cross.
- 21 October 2010 at 22:40
- Anonymous said...
Anon, 2227, There are 1000s of unskilled jobs in London, currently held by foreign students/similar. If they can do these jobs, the Brits can too. Instead, the bus driver/similar income level is currently paying tax to cover their welfare bills.
- 21 October 2010 at 22:46
- max said...
I'm sorry, this is all rotten talk, you have fallen in to the trap set by the News of the World and are blaming "the undeserving poor" instead of thinking about the lack of an economic policy to deliver more jobs.
The vast majority of jobless indeed want to work and deserve opportunities to match their potential.
The argument that one should take any job is only valid for people without qualification and nothing to lose, just about every person that have careers and qualifications and a grown up cash flow if suffering temporary unemployment cannot afford to be paid the minimum wage without going bust not long after.
We were discussing housing policies, and we have a housing market that for most is inaccessible, a social housing stock that doesn't grow, a skilled workforce of the constraction industry that's inactive and no policy to improve on that.
Why are you blaming the poor?
Stop looking at the finger! It's the moon!
- 21 October 2010 at 23:34
- Anonymous said...
Housing Associations are non-profit making organisations...the chief exec of L&Q was paid £124,000 in 2001. The following year he was paid £133,000.
A list produced by the present government stated the chief executive of L&Q was paid £200,000 last year.
- 22 October 2010 at 00:51
- bumbags said...
@anon (my name may be stupid, but at least I've got one) 22.27
Where have I said there should be no healthcare/education/pension? What a pile of crap. Why not tell me what I think about baked beans and WW2 while you're at it- you're obviously psychic.
I'm making very valid points about the State benefits system being a total farce, and unfair. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO WORK, partners who choose to live apart as it would affect their benefits. If I know them, so do many others. I also know people who have worked like CRAZY to better their lives. I also know people who have lost their jobs and genuinely needed temporary help. Nobody is saying State help shouldn't be there for emergencies like this.
I have also mentioned the awful long-term effects of unemployment, and the need for education, free training and help in getting people back into work (yup, that sounds pretty uncaring too).
If you are unfortunate enough to be on £65 a week Jobseekers you are also eligible for housing benefit, which will cover your rent. My point is that some people are claiming A LOT of money for this, and exploiting the system. If I, and millions of other workers have to live in cheap places, maybe they should too? This country needs to cut back at the moment, and a reasonable cap is fair to everyone.
- 22 October 2010 at 01:01
- Anonymous said...
I've just seen Plly Tonbee on TV talking gloom and doom for the poor and needy because of the government cuts.
Why doesn't Polly 'adopt' a poor family and support them with housing and financially?
There isn't a law preventing her paying more money to the Tresuary if she wishes to choose so.
By the way the winner of the 130 million Euro lottery is now said to be the 500th richest person in the UK...mmmmmm.
- 22 October 2010 at 01:10
- max said...
Bumbags, it's human nature, if the system is full of holes there will be people taking advantage, but the underlying reason is that the benefit system is perversely designed, not the wickedness of the undeserving poor.
Any reform that wants to improve should go to the root cause, and in the case of housing it's the lack of it. Cutting housing benefits without providing new social housing is a bad reform.
- 22 October 2010 at 01:55
- Anonymous said...
Housing in Lewisham should have been resolved years decades ago.
Council minutes show after each World War there was a housing crisis, in the past 60 years there hasn't been such significant events.
In Lewisham one party has held the reins for 40 years, since 2002 that party has held the key post of elected Mayor.
Yet in recent years there was a significant increase in the council housing waiting list and overcrowding.
During the financial 'boom' things got so bad in Lewisham B&B accomodation for homeless families was re-introduced.
The politicians and systems they introduce and adhere to have failed to address a very simple problem....a shortage of housing.
Under the previous government a report was produced that showed the level of new housing was at its lowest for 60 years.
The current 'urgent' requirement for primary school buildings is another fine example of why Britain has failed to resolve basic requirements.
The women of Lewisham did not get pregnant in May of this year and give birth a 5 year old in September.
Politicians need to stop pointing the finger at the other lot and focus on the job in hand.
- 22 October 2010 at 09:06
- Anonymous said...
Back to housing....in the centre of Lewisham there is a great deal of new housing currently being constructed.
Silkworks has occupants, the Taylor Wimpey development is well underway, work at Loampit Vale has began as has Connington Road.
Yet Lewisham Gateway the scheme that was to suppose to kick-start all this regeneration is on hold with no indication when or if the scheme will be completed.
- 22 October 2010 at 09:16
- Anonymous said...
Meanwhile the News Shopper reports the Mayor has been turning the sod....
Resident representatives from the Heathside and Lethbridge estates in Lewisham joined together with dignitaries to hold an official sod turning event.
The event on October 12 marked the beginning of a major project to rebuild the estates into new, well-designed and desirable places to live.
The scheme was one of the first regeneration schemes to benefit from the Mayor of London's Kickstart targeted funding stream, aimed at delivering projects which had been affected by the adverse economic conditions.
- 22 October 2010 at 09:21
- max said...
This kickstart is a bit of a deja vu, I remember about a year ago the Mayor demolishing the old laundry building to... kickstart the works.
Anyway, BC reported about the plans here:
As much as one can appreciate the positives, and there are quite a few, this scheme does not include any new rented social housing at all, in fact it will lose 4 units of that kind. All of the increase in density here is made of private housing.
- 22 October 2010 at 11:06
- Anonymous said...
The savings in Lewisham could be really huge.
Council estates, victorian 4 beds house turned into Caouncil Villas, or housing associations facilities or in regulated rental accomodations (a thing of the past but not in Lewisham).
Put them all together and I think you reach more than 50% of the population.
However every house given with tax payers money is a secure vote for the party who gives the houses.
The many new Council estate developments that are mashrooming everywhere are meant to consolidate this position and the last election showed that the vote for a house relationship in Lewisham is stronger than ever.
I would not hold my breath for real change in the area. If you look for change better moving somewhere else.
- 24 October 2010 at 08:18
- Anonymous said...
"The many new Council estate developments that are mashrooming everywhere"
Really? Every report I've read says that social housing is in massively short supply.
By the way, when the mail whinges about housing benefit just remember that the money does not go to the mythical work shy claimant. It goes to the private landlord, your taxes goes in the pocket of a property developer - why is there no outrage there? I don't think either party would disagree that there is not enough affordable housing out there, does anyone know how much of the housing sold to tenants for a pittance is now being rented back to hb claimants? Thanks Maggie, great move.
- 24 October 2010 at 09:01
- Tressilliana said...
Anon, Lewisham Council won't be the landlord in any of those social housing schemes, unless I've completely misunderstood. Government-funded or subsidised Housing Associations or Trusts, surely?
Other Anon who talks about Lewisham not having enough social housing - absolutely not the council's fault, in this case! Are you aware that in the 80s the Tories made it possible for council tenants to buy their homes at a huge discount to the market price and forbade councils from using the proceeds to build replacement housing?
- 24 October 2010 at 09:36
- max said...
Exactly, those "massive Council Estates" aren't Council Estates at all.
They're private developments with a component of affordable housing that in turn is only in part for rent and in part for shared ownership schemes which I contend are not far away from the right to buy of Margaret Thatcher.
Ross had made the maths of how much social housing was being provided at the Catford Dogtrack development (link) that keep in mind, was largely a publicly funded scheme.
By the way, I think that Lewisham Council ownes quite a number of empty properties that it can't allocate to tenants only because it can't afford to refurbish them, and that's particularly true for Victorian houses that after a few years of being empty are very expensive to renovate indeed.
- 24 October 2010 at 12:02
- Name said...
Sir Steve Bullock was on Radio 4, this morning, I was rather proud of the approach he took to the assumed concern of housing benefit claimants coming to this area.
- 28 October 2010 at 13:33
- Brockley Nick said...
@Name - which was what?
- 28 October 2010 at 13:33
- Name said...
*Evan put it to Steve that HB claimants pushed out of rich areas, would go to poor areas of London...like Lewisham.
Steve agreed.
Evan this may be problem, as it causes exclusively rich & poor boroughs.
Steve agreed that is not such a good thing, as socially mixed areas are good, and that it may cause resource issues re schools and care of the elderly and private housing sector.
Evan then suggested that hoardes of poor people coming to an area is a problem in and of itself.
Steve sounded somewhat taken aback and replied that it would not be right to suggest that all HB claimants are poor, most work and just need a little help to top up their rent and his borough welcomes everyone.
*Pls note that the above is a paraphrase...I think this interview might on iplayer podcast.
- 28 October 2010 at 14:20


text:
Media outlets and blogs from around the nation are criticizing District Court Judge Douglas Walkers decision to sentence a baby killer to just 90 days in jail.
Walker, on Sept. 25, sentenced Dylan Kuhn to 90 days in jail for killing his infant daughter under a plea bargain that could have sent the 19-year-old Dolores man to prison for up to four years.
The judge cited Kuhns lack of a criminal history, his age and the likelihood that he would not be a repeat offender as some of the reasons for not sending him to prison.
Some of the blogs show photos of both Walker and Kuhn as well as photos of Kuhns daughter Sailor under headlines like Outrage as Colorado Judge sentences baby killer to 90 days in jail and Fury after father, 19, who killed his baby daughter is given 90 days in jail because judge feels prison only creates repeat offenders.
Most of the scathing articles target Walker and the light sentence he issued.
On Thursday, Bonnie Druker from the Nancy Grace show that airs on Headline News TV, called the Cortez Journal to inform the paper that it planned to do a segment on the Kuhn case and sentence he received from Walker.
Druker said HLN wanted to air the segment next Tuesday, and added the show plans to concentrate only on the lenient sentence it believes Kuhn received.
Stephanie Villafuerte, executive director of the Rocky Mountain Childrens Law Center out of Denver and a former prosecutor, was outraged at the sentence that included no prison time.
She said Kuhn would not even spend half of his 90-day sentence behind bars, and said it would be no surprise to her if he is released within a week with a GPS monitor attached to his ankle.
Villafuerte, who was chief of the child abuse division for five years as a prosecutor, has handled hundreds of child abuse cases, several that were similar to the Kuhn case.
She also took issue with the prosecuting attorney, saying he made a critical error in drafting the plea agreement that gave the judge the latitude of not imposing a prison sentence.
This, she said, was made possible by dismissing the child abuse charge for the plea to manslaughter, which she added should have never been done.
Kuhn, who was arrested in November 2011 after his daughter died, was originally charged with manslaughter and child abuse.
Besides the 90 days in jail, Kuhn was sentenced to four years probation, mental health and substance evaluation, a parenting class and treatment, and ordered not to be allowed to be alone with children under the age of 10, court costs and possible restitution.
Under the plea agreement the child abuse and DUI cases were dismissed.
Villafuerte said what she would have done, and has done in the past, is to offer a plea that included a prison sentence, but not to the length the child abuser would have received if convicted at trial.
Frankly, I was surprised to see the plea bargain in that matter, she said.
She said 22nd Judicial District Attorney Russell Wasley, who asked for the maximum four-year prison sentence, should not be surprised or disappointed with the final outcome because it was his office that drafted the plea agreement that gave Walker the option to sentence Kuhn to probation.
She said a child abuse death mandates a prison sentence, while a manslaughter charge does not carry the same punishment.
Based on 10 years of doing this, five to 10 years (in prison) for this would be fairly typical, she said. If the plea was not accepted, Villafuerte said she would take the case to trial where the sentencing range could increase substantially.
Villafuerte said she almost never criticizes prosecutors, but this time she is perplexed with how this case was handled by the local DAs office.
Its just a plea bargain that I have not seen in my past, she said.
When the executive director of the Rocky Mountain Childrens Law Center was prosecuting child abuse cases resulting in death, there was never a plea bargain where prison time was optional.
If you want prison then you plead him to a prison sentence, she said, and added the prosecutor in this case may not have wanted the maximum sentence for Kuhn, which took away a good bargaining chip.
She also said the case was cut and dried with a confession and medical examiner evidence, so a plea bargain was not really necessary because a conviction at trial would have been almost a certainty.
I am shocked. It was a very provable case, she said. There were a lot of options that were available.
Villafuerte said she has no idea what the judge did or why he ruled like he did in this particular case, but added a plea bargain should not be crafted to give a judge this type of leeway.
Its absurd. Its ridiculous, she said, adding a sentence of 90 days in jail for a child abuse killing diminishes the seriousness of the crime.
This is a very serious crime and is the most serious crime in our society, Villafuerte said.
A call seeking comment to Walkers receptionist was not returned.


text:
And, of course, DuQuesne does keep his promise--and also does escape from the ship eventually, and, of course, without injuring the vessel or any member of the party.[Seaton:] "I've heard that your word is good."
[DuQuesne]: "It has never been broken."
[Seaton:] "Will you give your word to act as one of the party, for the good of us all, if we don't iron you?"
[DuQuesne]: "Yes—until we get back to the earth. Provided, of course, that I reserve the right to escape at any time between now and then if I wish to and can do so without injuring the vessel or any member of the party in any way."
[Seaton:] "Agreed."
I wish I had some kind of guide to 1930s colloquial speech; his dialogue is quite different from that of other naturalistic authors of the day, but perhaps he was just catching a different style or social group. This little bit of dialog caught my eye:
Wentworth and Flexner's slang dictionary only gives one meaning for gay, "homosexual." Obviously it doesn't mean that, and just as obviously it doesn't mean "happily excited" or "keenly alive and exuberant" or "brightly colored.""Sit down, Miss Vaneman. Let them fight it out. Perkins has his orders to lay off you—you lay off him. I'm not taking any chances of getting you hurt, that's one reason I wanted you armed. If he gets gay, shoot him; otherwise, hands off completely."
Inspired by that, I'm now reading Isaac Asimov's novel Nemesis, which I'd missed. And I'm also nibbling at Does This Mean You'll See Me Naked?: A Funeral Director Reflects on 30 Years of Serving the Living and the Deceased, by Robert D. Webster, but don't know if I'll finish it. It's nowhere near as good as Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach.


text: Donate or raise money for your favorite charity. You can send an e-Card if your donation is a gift or tribute. Plus, you get 10 points for every dollar you donate and every dollar you raise. Points mean Prizes and a possible trip to the White House to receive some sort of medallion for being such a great person. The White House part probably won't happen but it'd be great if it did.