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Get Amazing Services for Tile and Grout Cleaning in Cannon Hill
Back 2 New Cleaning – A leading name in the industry of tile and grout Cleaning. We provide professional tile caulking, grout cleaning, shower or bathtub, tiles regrouting, tile grout recolouring, tile sterling, bathroom tile and grout cleaning, shower tile mould removal and tile polishing services. Please call us on 0488 850 862 for same day tile and grout cleaner booking!!!
Back 2 New Tile and Grout Cleaners® are Specialised in:
- Certified and Experienced Tile and Grout Cleaners®.
- Bathroom Tile and Grout Cleaning Services.
- Tile Steam Cleaning.
- Shower Mould Removal Services.
- Shower Cleaning Tile and Grout Cleaning Services.
- Tile polishing.
- Emergency Tile Cleaning Services.
- Tile Stripping Services.
- Tile Sealing Services.
- Tile Re-grouting Services.
- Tile Resurfacing.
- Tile Restoration Services.
- Indoor Tiles and Grouts Cleaning.
- Concrete Floor Cleaning and Polishing Services.
- Same Day Tile and Grout Cleaning in Cannon Hill.
Our tile cleaning specialists works 24 hours and 7 days a week. At back 2 new we provide tile and grout cleaning services 365 days including public holidays. Our Tile and Grout Cleaners provide services to northern suburbs, eastern suburbs, western suburbs and southern suburbs of Cannon Hill.
First Class Tile and Grout Cleaning Services Cannon Hill
Tile and Grout Cleaning can be tough, time consuming and almost impossible for many. We are here to provide you quality tile and grout cleaning services with superior cleaning equipment.
Tile and grout cleaning we take pleasure in offering proper stone, tile, and grout cleaning and restoration. We hold our services to the highest level, ensuring that your restoration will stand the test of time, helping you avoid the cost of installing a new floor. We specialize in both grout cleaning and grout color sealing.
Local Tile and Grout Cleaners in Cannon Hill
Our tile and grout cleaners are local, experienced and certified in cleaning all types of surfaces. Our Tile and Grout Cleaners are available in northern suburbs, eastern suburbs, western suburbs and southern suburbs of Cannon Hill. We work 24 hours and 7 days in week including weekends and public holidays. Our Tile and Grout Cleaners are available for same day tile and grout cleaning service in Cannon Hill.
Back 2 New Cleaning Company offers two separate services that come with tile and grout maintenance.
- Clean and restore the tiles and grout using a spinner wand. This is the latest technology to safely remove embedded dirt and grime within the tiles and grout.
- Apply a sealer. Depending on the type of tile or grout, a good quality sealer is essential after the cleaning to provide longevity. Grout is very porous and without a sealer, spills will be absorbed making the grout weak and vulnerable.
You can put your trust in Back 2 New Cleaning Company Cannon Hill for all your tile and grout maintenance needs.
Back 2 New Cleaning Company wide discount up to 15% off!!! Same Day Service for Cannon Hill all suburbs i.e. 24 X 7 hours call us for more Information on 0488 850 862
Here are some Tile and Grout Cleaning Services provided by Back 2 New tile and grout cleaning Cannon Hill:
Grout Cleaning Cannon Hill
Grout is an absorbent material, which means that over time, light color grout will wear off soon after a few uses. To renovate your grout to its initial state, we being our cleaning with a citrus degreasing, followed by the application of high-pressure boiling water. This is unique, as we are the only company to use 1000 psi (pounds per square inch) of boiling water application. This combination of high pressure and high heat allows us to provide permanent results in your grout color sealing.
Grout Rejuvenation Cannon Hill
For all of our grout renovation jobs in Cannon Hill, Back 2 New Tile and grout cleaning Cannon Hill come equipped with up to 300 ft. of pressure hose and vacuum lines, both of which are able to run off of our own power supply. This means that you won't have to worry about your power breakers being tripped during the grout renovation process, and we can still complete the work even if there is a power outage in the area. Alternatively, if you live in a high rise building, we also carry smaller portable machines to ensure that we can still serve you.
Tile and Grout Sealing Cannon Hill
After cleaning, we suggest two options for tile sealing and grout sealing: clear grout sealing or color grout sealing. For our clear grout sealing, we apply a quality expert grout seal to shield the grout from staining. This is our more affordable option as a tile and grout sealer, and will typically last for two years.
Emergency Tile and Grout Cleaning in Cannon Hill
Accidents happen, and it's not uncommon to have to replace broken floor tiles. At Back 2 New Cleaning Tile Perfection in Cannon Hill we have perfected the art of broken floor tile replacement so you can correct and forget it.To replace the broken tile, we first use a carbide bit oscillating tool to cut the grout surrounding the broken floor tile. This tool is specially designed to allow us to accurately remove the broken tile, without cracking any other part of your floor.
Best Tile and Grout Cleaners® in Cannon Hill
For the initial time in life you no longer have to get on your knees with a tooth brush, or other types of deck brush and struggle with malodorous chemicals and acids that don't work.
Why you hurt your knees, dry out skin, struggle with harsh chemical smells etc, when you can get shining cleaned tile and grout cleaning without any bother?
Tile and Grout Cleaning Deals in Cannon Hill
We use and offers the NEWEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE way of tile and grout cleaning to date. We use latest, scientifically-proven methods, technologies and a variety of equipment. The key part of the process is HEAT that we apply consistently. In combination with vacuum and high pressure water cleaning we are able to provide fast and efficient service and long-lasting results. Turbo and mini-turbo attachments enable our crew to reach areas and surfaces of different configurations. Our service will help you get more "mileage" of hard floor surfaces you have invested into, and love!
We also complete SEALING, available by request, as an important component of the process designed to keep your floors clean and stain-free longer.
What to Expect From Back 2 New Tile and Grout Cleaning Cannon Hill?
Here are a few things you should know before we start…
Our cleaning process can, in most cases, return your floor to 95% or more of its initial condition. Back 2 New Cleaning Cannon Hill assures that we will do our best to satisfy you. But we need your understanding that sometimes we are dealing with situations beyond our control. And your helpful ways are highly appreciated, too!
Same Day Tile and Grout Cleaning in Cannon Hill
We can provide same day Tile and grout cleaning in Cannon Hill. Please have all areas cleared of furniture and knickknacks before we arrive. We will point out damaged and heavily stained areas, or any other problematic surfaces, BEFORE we begin. We would appreciate if you do such an inspection yourself in advance. As you understand, we will not be responsible for any pre-existing conditions such as loose tiles and grout, cracked or missing tile and grout, discoloration, fading, scratched tiles etc. Neither will we take responsibility for correcting damage, previously concealed by dirt, and uncovered while cleaning surfaces with heavy soil build-up. There could be areas of your floor that are beyond the reach of even the most advanced tools we use.
Tile and Grout Steam Cleaning Cannon Hill
Some products and food can stain grout permanently. We will know what will, and what will not come out until we actually clean the surface. Wax is our enemy too, as it is extremely difficult to remove from grout. We will do our best to get rid of it, and we pride ourselves on the fact that in most cases, the process is successful and effective. But we still cannot guarantee complete wax removal at all times and under any conditions. If we feel that our cleaning process could do more harm than good due to existing problems in the floor condition, we immediately STOP all work. If there is still staining or discoloration visible after the cleaning, you have an option of re-coloring the grout with a whole array of new products available on the market today.
Thank you for understanding some of the specific conditions we have to deal with while cleaning your tile and grout. We hope you will be able to enjoy your newly cleaned and refreshed tile and grout for years to come!
Tile and Grout Cleaner® Cannon Hill
- You will get the tile & grout cleaning that you deserve
- You will see a magic difference right before your eyes
- You will see the color the grout line use to be
- You will be Stunned
That's why you must see to believe it.
What to Remember in Tile and Grout Cleaning?
Is there a reason why it is harder to maintain tiles and grout clean compared to carpets and area rugs? Of course! There is nowhere for the dirt to hide on hard surfaces such as wood, natural stone, ceramic, porcelain and etc. This is why it is so important to have your newly cleaned floors properly finished and maintained.
After your floor is clean, the best thing to do is have it sealed. The grout sealer will need to "cure" within a 24 hour period. Contrary to popular belief, forced air will not speed up the curing process.
Bear in mind, that sealers are designed to make products repel dirt, but on its own, it would not prevent the floors from getting dirty.
Beware of store-bought "foreign" substances and chemicals: they can actually embed dirt and grime into your floor, or even cause permanent damage.
Same Day Tile And Grout Cleaning Service.
Tile and ground cleaning is must, it should be done properly to ensure the long life of the tiles if your tile and grout are dirty of they need emergency attention. Then, you're at the right place, at Back 2 New Cleaning we are proud to offer same day tile and grout cleaning and restoration services. We accept bookings of all our clients in Cannon Hill all day 24*7, if the tiles and grout in your kitchen, washroom or any other place need repairing or cleaning job, then we are here for, just call on our numbers and schedule an appointment.
Useful Tips for Tile and Grout Cleaning in Cannon Hill
After the service is complete, try to avoid the use of strong chemicals for cleaning your floors for at least two weeks. Never use muriatic acid, floor stripper or any other rough substances during the setting period. Be careful while hiring people to maintain your floors, as you have to make sure they do not use methods and substances that can damage your floors and put in danger yours and their own safety and health.
Safe and High-End Tile and Grout Cleaning Cannon Hill
We maintain the highest of standards with our tile and Grout Cleaning Services throughout Cannon Hill. We are committed to doing the job right the first time, every time. We offer you, the customer a 100% Service Guarantee for you to feel completely satisfied with your clean. Because customer satisfaction is most important to our business and we believe in long term relationship.
Back 2 New Cleaning Company, Cannon Hill also provide our services the same day of the order or in case of any emergency requirements by the clients.
Our Tile and Grout Cleaning Cannon Hill customer reviews
Healthy Tile Cleaning
Sparkling Tile Cleaning Services
Great Tile and Grout Shine
Professional Tile and Grout Cleaning Service
The Best Tile Cleaning services
Above Expectations
Superb Carpet Steam Cleaning
I booked the carpet steam cleaning service offered by Back 2 New Cleaning and got fantastic service. Their carpet steam cleaning procedure is just awesome. They change the look of my carpet. I am in love with the result and would like to thanks the Back 2 New Cleaning. I highly recommend this company. Just go for it and experience the best carpet steam cleaning service ever.
Total Satisfaction
I always recommend Back 2 New Cleaning to all my friends and family. This is one of the finest carpet cleaning company in Brisbane. You get total satisfaction when you hire Back 2 New Cleaning for the carpet cleaning job. All their cleaners are certified and highly trained. I am more than satisfied with their work. They provide unbelievable carpet cleaning service at unbeatable pricing. I called them last Sunday to clean my office carpets and they did a marvellous job. They use superb methods to clean the carpets. I have never received a bad result from this company. They highly aim at providing 100% customer satisfaction and this is the reason why I always choose this company whenever I want to get my carpets cleaned. Thanks Back 2 New Cleaning for always providing timely service and brilliant result.
Work With Utmost Professionalism
I highly recommend this company to everyone. I recently hired them for carpet dry cleaning and received a first class carpet dry cleaning service. You can completely rely on them for your carpet dry cleaning requirement. They value the time of their clients and don't waste a single minute. It was really great having the team at our place for carpet dry cleaning. The cleaners of Back 2 New Cleaning work with the utmost professionalism. They finished the dry cleaning job within the estimated team and didn't create and mess around. I am really very impressed and would like to use their other services too.
Professional Cleaners
If you are looking for the best and professional mattress cleaners, Back 2 New Cleaning is always a perfect choice. I hired them for mattress stain removal last week. The professionals of Back 2 New Cleaning arrived at the right time and did a wonderful cleaning job. They have a hardworking and result-oriented staff who puts extra efforts to please their customers. They cleaned my mattress in an efficient manner. I recommend their services to everyone.
Very Nice Service
In my opinion, Back 2 New Cleaning is one of the finest duct cleaning service provider in Melbourne. I have used both commercial and residential duct cleaning services offered by Back 2 New Cleaning and I am more than satisfied with them. They provide their services to all the suburbs in Melbourne. Their work is outstanding. Thank you Back 2 New Cleaning for always providing great duct cleaning service to me. I keep recommending their name to all my friends. The Back 2 New Cleaning cleaners have adequate knowledge and effective equipment to manage the duct cleaning task. They are not very pricey too. You will get value for your money. So hire Back 2 New Cleaning today.
Get Cleaned Carpet With Expert Facilities
I have been a consistent client of Back 2 New Cleaning for more than 8 years. Usually, They provide outstanding cleaning services. They have the soundest devices to clean carpet with expert abilities. I have been getting the best cleaning services from Back 2 New Cleaning. They employ safe and efficient elements to clean carpet securely. Uprightly, I prescribe them to all my buddies and families.
Thank You……..!!!
"Wonderful Pest Control Service"
Back 2 New Cleaning provides wonderful pest removal service in Brisbane. I had personally experienced their rat control service and I am so happy with the result. I had to call Back 2 New Cleaning a few days back when I saw a sign of rats at my place. I tried to remove them by homely methods but didn't succeed. The Back 2 New Cleaning team arrived on the same day of booking and used an effective method to remove these rats from my place. They use the latest equipment. My home is rate free now and I am very thankful to the team for this. They didn't create and mess and were very helpful. I would love to recommend them to you all.
Amazing Carpet Cleaning
Carpets are very tough to maintain and when it gets stained it looks very dirty. My carpet was in the same condition. Getting my Carpet Cleaning was like a nightmare for me because lack of good cleaners in Melbourne but thanks to Back 2 New Cleaning, they cleaned my carpet amazingly. Back 2 New Cleaning have an expert team of carpet cleaners. The cleaners went above my expectations. I was surprised when I saw my carpet after it got cleaned. They use great cleaning tactics. My carpet looks mind-blowing. Great job is done, guys. I am definitely going to recommend your services to all my friends and family.
We had our carpet,
We had our carpet, straight curtains and tiles/grout done today by back2new cleaning (Saturday), because it was wet through out the house so we didn't had a chance to go in and check the work. Therefore we went back later in the afternoon and found out the amazing work has been done, most tiles grouts clean look like new. But what makes me happy is our new painted wall have been saved from damaged. Enclosed are the damaged parts on the wall (due to the limitation of the photo attachment on this website, there are few more which I can't attach to show the areas which have been damaged to my wall). I asked the cleaner please be careful with the walls as they are newly painted and he promised he will. This is the the best experience I have ever experienced which really made my day 🙂
My Carpet Looks Shiny Once Again
I approached Back 2 New Cleaning for my carpet cleaning. They are simply amazing. They steam cleaned my carpet with the best techniques and made it new once again. Those nasty odors coming from the carpet are also gone. I love the great job done by these professional cleaners. I will surely call them in future.
Flawless Commercial Carpet Cleaning Sydney
I am writing this as a feedback for your commercial carpet cleaning service availed two weeks back for my office carpets. There were more than 10 carpets and I had to get the job done on a weekday. All my employees were working in the office and yet Back 2 New Cleaning did a great job. They didn't disturb the working environment and the work didn't suffer much. They were very co-operative. I have to say that you have got a great team. I am definitely going to use your services again. Thanks! – Renaira Frank
Mattress Cleaning Experts
I get my mattress cleaned every year by experts of Brisbane. Back2New Cleaning offers great service at an affordable price. What else can you ask for? I live stress free knowing that my mattresses are clean and hygienic.
Excellent Commercial Carpet Cleaning
I got some carpets of my office cleaned by Back2New Cleaning last month and I am very impressed with the results. They not just delivered a flawless cleaning service but also showcased much attention to customer satisfaction. They were keen to know my response and were willing to go extra miles to ensure I (the customer) was happy. Kudos for great work!
Affordable Upholstery Cleaning Solutions
If you are looking for affordable couch cleaning solutions without compromising on the quality in Brisbane then trust Back2New Cleaning. I have been using their upholstery cleaning solutions for more than 5 years now and I am happy with everything. Keep delivering satisfactory results. – Sandra
Tile Stain Removal
Can you imagine I got water marks removed from the tiles in my home? Yes, even I was surprised to see the results. I had called Back2New Cleaning for professional tile and grout cleaning. They not just did a great job but also got rid of the water marks from the tiles. I have fallen for their skilled hands and I am definitely going to show off my floors to everyone. You have got a permanent customer in me. – James Dam
Carpet Cleaning Experts in Brisbane
Back2New Cleaning is one of the best carpet cleaning providers I have come across in Brisbane. For more than 40 years, I have been residing in Brisbane and have tried numerous carpet cleaners. I have started recommending your name to whoever asks me for a reliable carpet cleaner. – Janet Lodge
Amazing service of Back2 New Cleaning
I am impressed with the amazing service of Back2 New Cleaning. They are really awesome. They follow the best method of cleaning. Back2 New Cleaning suggested me the best idea of doing the carpet cleaning at home, is to use a Powdered carpet cleaners. These are quicker to use as they can be vacuumed up. Anyone can do it. You just need a hard bristled brush along with a water solution. Take some carpet shampoo to eliminate the stubborn stains. It is better to test any cleaning products on a small area first, before applying them on the whole carpet. Is not it great!
Commendable Upholstery Cleaning Service
Leather upholstery is tough to handle, very tough. And when it is time to get it cleaned, it is a nightmare. I have been regretting my decision to buy leather upholstery for a long time because of lack of a good cleaner but thanks to Back 2 New Cleaning I have my lovely leather couch back into shape. Yes, last month I called them to get my leather upholstery cleaned and as always I was not much hopeful. However, the results were mind blowing. Even the lost lustre of my couch is back. Great job done. I am definitely going to recommend your services.
Thanks Back 2 New Cleaning Brisbane 🙂
I had tried lots of cleaning company to clean our mattress,carpet, duct , tiles and grout and so forth over the years. However, Back 2 New Cleaning Brisbane is definitely the best cleaning company. They have team of cleaners who are expert in different areas of cleaning. I called them to clean carpet at my home. They have done this job perfectly and the quote provided over phone call was accurate. I would happy to introduce Back2 New Cleaning to family and friends so that they could save up their time, money and energy in finding expert carpet cleaners in Brisbane.
Flood damage
After the recent floods in Brisbane I called to have the water extracted to prevent further damage. I would sincerely like to thank raymond who came out same day and was genuine and didnt take advantage of our situation. I had rang a few other places who were asking triple the price due to our predicament. I found him honest and hard working.
Grout cleaning
I recently had my tile and grout cleaned by back 2 new and am absolutely rapt with the result I knew the grout was really grotty and didnt think it was ever going to come clean again. The guy who came out was very professional and took his time. The end result was fantastic even my tiles look heaps better.
Amazing Mattress Cleaning !!
Back 2 new cleaning company is best cleaning in Brisbane. They have very friendly and professional cleaners. I always prefer them for mattress cleaning but this time I got chance to put some good feedback about their teams. Till date I have had no problem with anything from them. They are reliable, punctual, affordable, experienced, and licensed.
Affordable Carpet Stain Removal
I regularly clean my mattresses with the help of a vacuum cleaner but last week I had to call Back2 New Cleaning team to remove the carpet stain. I was really shocked to see the result! This company provides a good, professional, and affordable service.Thanks to your Eco-friendly cleaning solutions the stain and smell both are gone. Great service.


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For the growing number of teenage girls who are incarcerated each year, detention may be the only time they get health care.
But the care provided to girls in juvenile detention is often a poor match for their needs.
One reason: It's a system that was designed for boys.
Girls in detention are "one of the most vulnerable and unfortunately invisible populations in the country," says Catherine Pierce, a senior adviser at the federal government's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.
Up to 90 percent of these girls have experienced physical, sexual or emotional abuse, Pierce says.
Their health statistics are particularly grim: 41 percent have signs of vaginal injury consistent with sexual assault; up to a third have been or are currently pregnant; 8 percent have had positive skin tests for tuberculosis; and 30 percent need glasses but don't have them, according to research from the National Girls Health and Justice Institute.
Reylene, who asked that her full name not be used, was 17 a few months ago when she arrived in handcuffs at the Bernalillo County Juvenile Detention and Youth Services Center in Albuquerque, N.M., after being arrested for larceny and breaking and entering.
She received much the same treatment as if she were a boy.
First, Reylene was given a full pat-down to check for contraband, like drugs or weapons. After showering and putting on her uniform, she was given a brief health screening to make sure that she didn't need emergency medical services before being booked.
The screening lasts about 15 minutes and is given by the facility's staff nurse in a small room attached to the intake area.
The door remains open for security purposes, with guards and new residents passing by. Without privacy, girls are unlikely to reveal important health information, especially when they have previously been victimized, says Leslie Acoca, a psychologist and researcher who has studied the health care of girls in detention for more than a decade.
Reylene was weighed and measured, and had her vital signs taken. The nurse briefly evaluated her physical and mental state, noting her judgment, speech and mood. Next, the nurse asked a series of about 35 questions from the facility's medical intake form, including a list of her current medications, whether she had taken alcohol or drugs in the past 24 hours, was feeling suicidal, or if she had a history of self-destructive behavior.
There are a handful of questions given only to girls: Are you pregnant? If so, have you started prenatal care? What form of birth control do you use?
During the screen, however, Reylene didn't mention a major health issue: painful red burns across her breasts.
"Usually I'm pretty straightforward, but, like, I lied to [the nurse] when I first came in here, about my burns," says Reylene, who explains that she doesn't know exactly what happened because she was passed out when she was burned.
The nurse saw the burns through her tank top, but Reylene was evasive because she didn't want them to be investigated. "If we're in the detention center ... we don't know who to trust, because we're vulnerable," she says.
Reylene says she had to ask several times for ointment.
Acoca wants to improve the situation faced by girls like Reylene. She's developed a tool that she believes will vastly improve the situation — a health questionnaire specifically for girls that would replace the current intake procedure in detention centers.
The Girls Health Screen consists of 132 questions that would be asked of all girls upon arrival in a detention facility. The screen can be given by a nurse, or the girls can fill it out on their own on a computer.
The Bernalillo center recently agreed to try out the Girls Health Screen. Of the 30 girls at the facility who participated in the pilot, 12 were identified as needing immediate medical care, and 23 as needing medical care within 24 hours. Some of these health issues had been missed when the girls went through the center's standard health screening procedure.
Acoca says that if Reylene had taken the Girls Health Screen on a computer, the burns would have triggered an immediate medical response.
"There would be a little flag that would go, 'Ding, ding, ding! Ointment for burns!' " Acoca says.
But Veronica Crespin, one of the nurses at the facility, says that Acoca's screen takes too long and finds problems they already knew about. And they don't have the staff.
"It's just very busy. Most of the time it's one nurse per shift. And there's multiple intakes," Crespin says
Acoca argues it's worth it to make the time. Her research has yielded a surprising finding: Poor physical health seems to increase girls' risk of recidivism. In other words, girls who have health problems are more likely to reoffend and end up back in the criminal justice system.
The Albuquerque center hasn't decided yet whether to adopt Acoca's health screen. But Los Angeles County began using it in June, and six other California counties are considering it.
Jenny Gold is a reporter with Kaiser Health News, an independent, nonprofit news service supported by The Kaiser Family Foundation. The Kaiser Family Foundation also helps fund Leslie Acoca's research.
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Melissa Block.
And I'm Robert Siegel.
America's juvenile justice system was designed for boys and that can make life difficult for girls when they're locked up. For one, their health needs, especially after sexual, physical, or emotional abuse, are often overlooked. We have a story now about one woman's efforts to change the system and make it more sensitive to those needs.
Reporter Jenny Gold visited the main juvenile detention center in Albuquerque and sent this report.
JENNY GOLD: In the intake area of the Bernalillo County Juvenile Detention Center, a guard is patting down a 16-year-old girl brought in for breaking parole. She's shackled at the wrist and ankles with pink cuffs.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: So what I'm going to do is just going to go ahead and pat you down and see if anything is on you, OK? Spread your legs for me, please. Thank you.
GOLD: After the search is over, a staff nurse gives a girl a brief medical exam. Nurse Veronica Crespin asks the girls a series of 35 questions to find out whether they're sick or hurt.
VERONICA CRESPIN: Basically we, you know, go through if they were injured during the arrest, any drugs and alcohol, any history of rape within the last five days, any suicide ideation.
GOLD: She takes the girl's vital signs, asks her about birth control and gives her pregnancy test. It takes about 15 minutes. There's no physical exam. The door to the room remains open. A girl is often asked sensitive questions in front of male staff members or boys waiting to be screened. So is it any wonder that they often lie about their health?
REYLENE: If we're in the detention center, like, it's kind of like we don't know who to trust because we, we're vulnerable.
GOLD: That's Reylene. She was 17 when I talked to her a couple of months back. She didn't want us to use her full name.
REYLENE: Like, for example, if someone is being abused and they have marks and they can be treated for it, they're not going to want to say anything because they don't know what's going to happen when they get out.
GOLD: She's in detention this time for larceny and breaking and entering.
REYLENE: Usually I'm pretty straightforward. But, like, I lied to her, like, when I first came in here about, like, my burns and stuff.
GOLD: Reylene had severe burns across her chest.
REYLENE: My whole left breast is, like, scarred. And then, like, some of them are healing and the other ones are, like, really read.
GOLD: Reylene says she had asked several times for ointment, even though the nurse saw the burns during her medical screen. She was reluctant to talk about them.
REYLENE: I told her that I didn't know it was because I didn't want her to, like, investigate it or something. I knew what it was but I wasn't completely sure, because I was, like, passed out when it happened. But...
GOLD: Reylene's story is typical of girls in detention, and that presents a problem for people who run the juvenile justice system. They can't tackle the complex problems - addiction, trauma, mental and physical illness - if they don't know about them.
Bernalillo officials are trying a new approach. It was developed by Leslie Acoca, a psychologist and advocate who researches health care for girls in detention. Acoca says it's important to do more thorough exams because this may be the only time girls on the fringes encounter the health care system.
LESLIE ACOCA: If we don't ask these questions, who will, and at what point in their lives? And how sick do they have to get?
GOLD: An unpublished study Acoca conducted with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia found that 41 percent of 148 girls given detailed physical exams had signs of vaginal injury consistent with sexual assault or violent sex. Up to a third had been pregnant. And that's just the beginning, she says.
ACOCA: Issues like self-harming, hopelessness, anxiety, those things are not being picked up accurately or early enough.
GOLD: A separate study showed that fewer than half of facilities surveyed are following national health screening guidelines, and almost all of those tests were designed with boys in mind.
So Acoca set out to design a new screening test. It has 132 written questions about health, medical history, and self-esteem. It takes 13 to 45 minutes to do, depending on a girl's reading ability. And it's meant to be given with a full physical. Reylene agreed to answer some of the questions out loud with Acoca.
ACOCA: Have you passed out or lost consciousness in the past two weeks?
REYLENE: Yeah.
ACOCA: You have. Do you think you use too much alcohol or drugs?
REYLENE: Yes.
ACOCA: Yes.
GOLD: If Reylene's first test had been like this, but on a computer, Acoca says the burns on her chest would have triggered an immediate medical response.
ACOCA: There would be little flag that would go ding-ding-ding.
GOLD: Of the 30 girls who took the test in Albuquerque, 12 were identified as needing immediate medical attention. But Nurse Veronica Crespin says the test finds problems they already knew about. It's too long and they don't have the staff.
CRESPIN: It's just very busy. You know, most of the time it's one nurse per shift and there's multiple intakes. You know, on any given day, it's just constant.
GOLD: Acoca says they have to make time. Research Acoca published in 2000 with the National Council on Crime and Delinquency found that poor physical health increases girls' risk of landing back in detention or jail. Catherine Pierce works at the juvenile division of the U.S. Department of Justice.
CATHERINE PIERCE: I think that many facilitates really don't understand the extent of girls health needs and how complex they are.
GOLD: She says Acoca's screen is a valuable tool.
PIERCE: As many as 90 percent of incarcerated girls have histories of sexual and physical and emotional abuse, and that is stunning and it makes girls very vulnerable.
GOLD: Just being asked the questions seemed to have an impact on some girls, like 16-year-old Amanda.
AMANDA: At first I thought it was weird, like just taking a quiz out of nowhere. But then when I thought about it, it made sense. They just want to know about girls' health. And so, it felt as if I was a little bit important to put a dent into something that could be big.
GOLD: The day I visited, Amanda was released back into her mother's care. The other girls looked on enviously as she left, imagining the day when they'd get out too.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #1: I can't wait. I'm so excited to go home.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #2: When I get out, I'm going to Panda Express.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #3: Dude, when I get out I want to go eat some bomb Chinese food.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN #4: Yeah. It's like...
GOLD: At this moment, they could be any group of girls just hanging out. Acoca says she's amazed at their resilience.
ACOCA: We'd watch them play baseball in the gym, and do pushups, and laugh like little girls. When you take them off street, you don't see an offender, you see a child.
GOLD: A child, she hopes, with better medical care, might not end up back here. The Albuquerque center hasn't decided yet whether to adopt Acoca's health screen. But Los Angeles County began using it in June and six other California counties are considering it.
For NPR News, I'm Jenny Gold
SIEGEL: Jenny Gold is a reporter with Kaiser Health News, a nonprofit news service.
BLOCK: This is NPR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.


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Thursday, December 18, 2008
Comic 519: ARGHHHHHHHHHH
I know it's Rob's week but good god we have got some problems here. Make sure you read his post, but christ I just couldn't avoid a horrible rant of my own.
Ok I guess I will make a list or something.
1. This is yet another goddamn chart comic, making two comics in a row where the most complicated shape drawn is a parallelogram.
2. It doesn't make sense at all. Who's career is he talking about? His own? I think his drawing and "comedy" are probably helping him more with this particular career he has chosen, and I do believe he began this comic with drawings done...in class! For example, when he was in 11th grade! In fact, there is nothing about his career as a cartoonist that would be affected how much perl he knows except that he wouldn't be able to make jokes about perl, which isn't that often and they usually are lame anyway.
2a. Perhaps I am being to harsh on him. Perhaps he meant in general. Or wait, no, that's even stupider than the original idea. Very few jobs need to know perl. Sure, some do, and for those people "messing around" with it might be more helpful than class (unless you went to some kind of KRAZY PERSON SCHOOL where they taught entire classes about computer science!). Some jobs - chemist, biologist, mathematician, physisict, writer, historian, to name but a tiny fraction - are very much served by what the learn in high school. SORRY THEY CAN'T BE MORE LIKE YOU, RANDALL.
3. This comic goes against everything I think as a nerd. School was where learning happened! It makes people smarter! Now you've got a whole bunch of shitty forumites saying things like "glad to be unschooling with my kids" (I don't totally know what that means but I don't like it) or "Screw History, I'm not going to be a History teacher or a Historian!" which just makes me -and I'm not a historian, except of xkcd- feel terrible just a person who values knowledge and intelligence.
4. Randall, you are 24 years old. You graduated from college two years ago. Are you really at the right age to decide what skills are best needed for a career? Your career is currently selling t-shirts with pictures and words to people who find them amusing.
5. Leaving aside what actually helps you in life, for you to say that you know better than all your teachers - even if, miraculously, you are right about all this and the graph is 100% accurate - is still ungodly arrogant and I want to punch you in the face.
6. Oh, alt-text. You loveable little motherfucker you. "And the ten minutes striking up a conversation with that strange kid in homeroom sometimes matters more than every other part of high school combined." AWWWW, YOU SHOULD TALK TO STRANGE KIDS. IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT THERE IS FOR YOU TO DO! This is another of Randall's condescending "oh please, don't worry your little self, I know what is best for you to do" comments, like when he said "you should kiss people more!" or "the other time he told you to talk to strangers, as well as a lot more stuff" You know, I remember reading a comic once where a nerdy guy does this, he goes to talk to a girl because she seems quirky in an appealing way, and then it turns out she sucks. OH RIGHT THAT WAS XKCD, BACK WHEN IT DIDN'T SUCK WITH THE FERCIOUS POWER OF 2000 VACCUUM CLEANERS AND 8 BLACK HOLES. it was right here. It was a good comic! It made fun of the whole idea that it is a good idea to talk to strangers. It made you think it was going to do that preachy shit but then it didn't. Ahhh, the good old days...
7. I'm sorry, I just keep coming down to the outright lie of this. Really randall? You never used physics in your career? The one you had at NASA? You don't think math is important? And don't give me that "uhhhhh well the important stuff I learned in college" bullcrap because you sure as hell have to learn the basic stuff first, and you have to learn it somewhere.
8. All the stupid forum posts are about "duhhh this is true duhh school wuz boring ah ahm glad ah didn't pay atenshun" but the point of this comic isn't "school is useless" it's "the only really worthwile thing to do is fuck around with perl." And what the hell happened to Randall's "ha ha, perl SUXXX i'm using python now, bitches!" mindset? what made him change his mind??
9. This comic is terrible. Truly terrible, on basically every level. Sometimes I wonder how I would react if I met Randall Munroe, and I used to think I would be angry but at least polite. Now I am thinking I would just punch him in the face and leave. TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T LEARN HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM PUNCHES IN YOUR PRECIOUS SCHOOL
85 comments:
I think I'd punch him in the balls. Just to see if he had any.ReplyDelete
About the alt-text... I thought that was funnier than my first conclusion.
Amanda: oh my god. I just made the WORST LAUGHING NOISES EVER. Like, there was snorting and laughing and squeaking. COLUMBINED. I am going to hell. :(ReplyDelete
Also: I never noticed the alt text for comic 7 THAT IS CREEPY.ReplyDelete
LOL omg. I remember thinking vaguely: "um that is weird"ReplyDelete
But with the recent strings of emo-relationshippy comics? EW.
Rob, I was sure that the forum post you had about I WAS IN 11th grade! would be the best one ever but amanda's totally wins. Oh my god that was funny.ReplyDelete
and I just noticed your sekrit comic. Reaction: BAHAHAHAHAHHAHReplyDelete
Curses I have something that you could refer to but Photobucket is refusing to work with my crappy internet. OH WAIT HERE IT IS
Man, I am quite the Spam Monster today. So, first, credit for the above pic goes to The Hourly Comic. Second, Carl I think you need to include the phrase "tra la la i am a dipshit" in there. Just for fun.ReplyDelete
Goddammit I really promise this is the last time. Posted the wrong link for The Hourly Comic.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousDecember 19, 2008 at 2:42 AM
I must really agree with you this time. Awful comic. And I'm not saying that just because I'm studying to become a teacher.ReplyDelete
But your take on #304 is quite disturbing, Carl. Are you perhaps suffering from some traumatic memories of talking with strange kids? #304 is certainly not making fun of the idea of talking to strangers. It's making fun of the way geeks often idealize people they never spoken to, and the way geeks thinks love is all about agreeing on everything. (Just for the record, I agree with you that 304 was great.)
Digg up my digg comment, people actually like it there too... wtf.ReplyDelete
I think the point is more or less that when you learn something for yourself, not in a contrived learning environment, it sticks with you better. The fact that taking initiative and learning outside of school, at that point in your educational career gives you a solid boost on a personal level, and gets you in the mindset to learn more of the same, in this case programming.ReplyDelete
So yeah, taking the initiative to learn perl on a weekend in a way was much more important than just going through the contrived education and relying on that.
I think you're a little hard on the point. I laughed, because truth is, the same thing applies to me with my job... a lot of tinkering I did in HS really helped prepare me far more than my HS classes (not to say they weren't important)
- AnonymousDecember 19, 2008 at 6:00 AM
Yes indeed, a first class piece of Randall Munroe crap. Although the ridiculous alt-text almost makes me think he's doing it on purpose.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousDecember 19, 2008 at 11:18 AM
You forgot to add a bar for 'wanking it' to your graph. I can understand, though; there's not enough space on the screen. And it's really disturbing to think about.ReplyDelete
When I first read it, it was through Tonypedia's eyes, with the reaction, "that sounds about right, tinkering for fun is always better than rote lessons." Then I came here and realized, "oh wait, that comes off as snobby about programming being better than anything school ever taught him."ReplyDelete
And hold up a second -- Randall undervalues everything he learned in school so much, but relishes the hell out of obscure wikipedia history lessons (Mary Celeste)?! THE WORLD IS BORING EXCEPT WHEN IT ISN'T HUH RANDALL
- AnonymousDecember 19, 2008 at 6:53 PM
You know, when you look at the comic in a simple way, and let go of this preconceived notion that the guy who writes xkcd is an arrogant prick, the jokes actually come off as a light humor.ReplyDelete
No real depth, but that's the point of the minimalist style.
*sigh* At least you didn't take 10 minutes, Anon.ReplyDelete
I agree, at face value the comic is observant and lighthearted. Perl could just as easily be replaced with "reading [cool book series]" or "learning how to build [stuff]" and the message would be the same. But we're not working with a PREconceived notion. Our notion comes fully developed and documented, with its own blog!
So basically we have to pretend to be stupid in order to get a "light" joke.ReplyDelete
Did I miss xkcd's sudden leap from intellectual to anti-intellectual? When did this happen? And all the fans also seem to be cool with it. This is practically a "we have always been at war with eastasia" thing.
- AnonymousDecember 19, 2008 at 9:32 PM
'...a "we have always been at war with eastasia" thing.'ReplyDelete
Anonymous: Your mother and I are very disappointed in you.ReplyDelete
Carl: +1
lol Ramsey. Dirty jokes are always amusing.ReplyDelete
Anyway, I understand the point of the comic, Anon. I also understand that, yes, RANDALL IS RIGHT HA HA SCHOOL IS NOT AS USEFUL AS OTHER THINGS THAT ARE MORE FUN
But just because something is true doesn't make it funny. How is any bit of this humorous? I'll help you out here! Answer: NONE OF IT because it's just an observation, not a joke.
Hey guys, I think your site is great. I have a review of xkcd up on my site too, it's at http://comicsthatsuck.blogspot.com/ . You should come check it out!ReplyDelete
- John Calhoun
- AnonymousDecember 20, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Randall, if you're going to do graph comics AT LEAST USE A RULER FOR GOODNESS' SAKEReplyDelete
Didn't they teach you that in school?
Anyway, yeah, observation, not even a joke, unoriginal blah blah same old same old. Sometimes I feel bad about badmouthing someone else's work, but this deserves it because it is just that awful. It is the first XKCD since that sexual experimentation rigour one to make me wince. Randall, you are shortening my lifespan by many years and I WILL CLAIM THOSE YEARS BACK AFTER I AM DEAD
- AnonymousDecember 20, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Oh, and:ReplyDelete
John: it is a sad reflection on the state of the Internet that I had to read up to halfway through the second blogpost on your site to realise that it was a parody. Or maybe I am just an idiot. Who knows. Either way, that's some believable stuff you got there.
- AnonymousDecember 20, 2008 at 6:22 PM
It's not like I haven't seen the joke (or observation, or whatever) before, but I didn't really have the "HOLY SHIT THIS IS TERRIBLE" reaction you guys did.ReplyDelete
I mean, I got his point. You learn things much better when you're interested and when you're given the freedom to choose what's important to you. It seems sort of obvious, but it's also a valid observation.
Is it funny? No.
I'm okay with the comics that are more "witty observation" than funny, and really, some of my favorite xkcd's are chart comics. (The day I realized I could cook bacon WHENEVER I want, for instance). The operative word here is witty. I don't care about this observation, so I read it and then said to myself, "Oh. Ok." and that was the end of the reaction.
As for the alt-text, I sort of read it in a vaguely mocking voice for some reason, as if he was making fun of the statement while he was saying it. Maybe that's just something I do. It seemed like it was purposefully cheesy. I might be giving too much credit there though.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
Sweetie Pumpkin: This one wouldn't bother me so much were it not a complaint that every annoying high schooler makes throughout high school. Just look at the forum comments--the first several are HS students who are complaining 'yeah man this is dumb and I hate it'. It's not just not clever and not insightful, it's pretty much the opposite of clever and insightful. It is (a) inaccurate (b) whiny (c) inaccurate (d) I WILL BRING RANDALL MUNROE TO RUINReplyDelete
sorry i blacked out
So, like. It's not so bad if he's just saying "I will never let my schooling interfere with my education." That is fine. But it bothers me when he says "man you never learn anything in school you gotta hang out and do fun stuff on your own otherwise you won't get anywhere" etc etc and I could really go on for hours and hours on how you actually learn vital life skills in high school. And I hated high school. I wish I had an older more reasonable version of myself to tell me that I was not actually wasting my time etc.
Not everyone is required to hate it but I mean. I want everyone to understand that this comic is morally offensive and ought to be made a capital offence and I think we should probably write our congressmen guys.
- AnonymousDecember 21, 2008 at 12:06 AM
> Very few jobs need to know perlReplyDelete
Actually, most do. Perhaps not in the sense that "at this job you'll be using perl every day" but in the sense that if you knew it you'd be better at your job.
I knew a guy in college that got his degree in MIS. Graduated, and started his cushy job at a fortune 500 consulting firm. Two months later, they fired his ass. Why? Because he couldn't handle a simple data migration project.
He's whining "its not my fault... there was so much to do..."
I probably could have completed his project in a week... using perl.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
A parody of what? I'm totally serious, man, xkcd sucks and Randall Monroe is probably a faggot or a furry or something.ReplyDelete
Point #1 : Randall probably does use perl in his job. Because his comic is a webcomic, which means it is on a website. Websites are made up of code, guys. If I recall, the comics are uploaded by a perl script. Yes, content is what gets people excited, but it doesn't get there by magic.ReplyDelete
Point #1a : Learning perl helps you learn python. These are related skills, guys.
Point #2 : Look, I'm not saying this is a great comic, or that I didn't learn anything in school, but do you really have no cynicism at all about high school education? I went to a pretty decent private school, and even there things were hit-or-miss. Art classes taught by basketball coaches, the Latin department falling into ruin, etc. I've heard horror stories about public high schools.
So look, let's not pretend that school is the be-all and end-all. Just because Randall says it doesn't mean it's wrong. The best thing school can teach you, after a certain point, is how to learn more on your own. This is certainly what the U of C pummeled into me.
So maybe for Randall, perl was the turning point on that front. And after you've made that leap, hundreds of hours of (potentially) trite meomorization and tedious regurgitation don't seem all that thrilling.
In conclusion: not a great comic, but I question the philosophical assumptions you have made in attacking it.
Patty-Cakes: http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2008/12/comic-519-worst-comic-ever-made.htmlReplyDelete
I could talk for hours, /hours/, about how bad my high school education was for me. I was the kid who was complaining that I wasn't learning any useful skills. That was me. And you know what? While I am incredibly fortunate I was intellectually curious enough to go learn other things, I still learned important skills.
My Friend The Illiterate Anonymous Commenter, Who Needs A Name But I Am Fine Just Generically Insulting: Listen. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit. You might know this if you had basic grasps of social sciences. And again, that is a 'it might help you keep your job, possibly' more than 'you need it for your job, and it is a useful skill.' Most things are useful skills--math, science, the English language, social sciences. Depending on the job you will end up using the skills. And you learn and perfect those in school! You also learn corporate drudgery.
But look, that implies that the only worthwhile careers are a very select few. I don't need programming for any of the careers I would like to pursue--what I do need is the ability to communicate intelligently and perform some useful research and analysis. I have no use for Perl. Anything I might need it for? I Know A Guy.
Perl will not help me. It wouldn't help a lot of people I know. A weekend of dicking around is certainly not more valuable than all of high school.
- AnonymousDecember 24, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Actually, he admits that he learned something in school, he just claimed that it was significantly less useful than what he did with his free time. Read the chart. XPReplyDelete
Wait a minute, you think the "Nighttime" comic makes fun of talking to strangers?ReplyDelete
The guy in the comic gave up a girl merely because her reading tastes were different from his, and you think that's ok?
You don't do that in real life, do you?
I think it's making fun of the cliche about talking to strangers leading to lifelong friendship 'n' love. (I also think that within that comic, the idea is that anyone who likes "xenocide" best is a worthless person, and so the male character is justified in disliking her).ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMarch 21, 2009 at 10:51 PM
(Fashionably late comment)ReplyDelete
I think this comic is not far from having a valid point; my weekend in Grade 9 messing around with Applescript probably had more positive influence on my life than high-school did, and I probably learnt more from it as well.
The graph says "career success" though - not "intellectual development" or "character building" - and one can't get any kind of decent job without Grade 11, obviously.
So close.
- AnonymousMarch 24, 2009 at 8:21 PM
Okay, I think the point Randall was trying to make was not that "school is useless to [his] career," but rather the return of time invested proportional to the amount of time invested for each activity was greater for one weekend in Perl than in 400 hours of homework and 900 hours of classes.ReplyDelete
At least, that's what my biased interpretation tells me. I learned useful stuff in school, but they spent way too much time assigning busy work. It got to the point to where I stopped looking at school as education, and started looking at it as mandatory babysitting.
If that's his point, it's a good one. If it's not, you're absolutely right: This comic sucks more than a French whore in a black hole.
Hi Kobra! Thanks for an intelligent, if super hella late, comment. I can agree with you on one point: if he was merely saying that one weekend was more useful to his career proportionate to the amount of time spent, it would be a better comic (though still not, I think, a good comic--it would just no longer be the worst comic ever made).ReplyDelete
I don't agree that this is his point. Look at it more closely--he's just saying that the combined 1300 hours doing homework and schoolwork is less useful than one weekend playing with Perl. If he wanted to make it proportional, he would have reduced all of the hours down to that One Weekend, or, if it were me and I made bad comics, Two Days. Observe:
"Two days spent in school; two days spent doing homework; two days messing around with Perl."
Do you see? He's not just saying that Perl is proportionately more equal--he's saying that a weekend of perl is more useful than all 1300 hours of schoolwork he mentions in the graph.
You should comment more on our more recent posts. There is a dearth of clever people to respond to. Fill that gap!
- AnonymousApril 5, 2009 at 6:12 PM
You know, I was just looking at the about xkcd page, and couldn't help but notice that Randall doesn't even write his own site code. And this of course made me think immediately of this comic.ReplyDelete
hahahahahaha oh my god.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousApril 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM
I think the "strange kid in homeroom" was a tech joke of some sort... but I can't remember from what.ReplyDelete
Just the idea of a major company being founded that way though.
- AnonymousApril 30, 2009 at 7:08 AM
Randall wasn't trying to make any point about how self learning is more vital to character development than institutionalised learning blah blah blah...ReplyDelete
He is simply pandering to the teenage axiom that school is a waste of time and teaches you nothing relevent to your later carreer (which, presuming you are a geek who has taken the time to learn perl in their spare time, has most likely already been chosen by yourself). He went ahead and made the comic in a hurry before realising all the basic maths/language/social interaction he learned at school actually were quite worthwhile.
I have to assume XKCD's key demographic is high school students, this comic reminds me of a My Chemical Romance music video. Everyone over the age of 18 knows this shit isn't true, but it is frugal to sell the idea to impressionable teens.
- AnonymousMay 1, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Fuck you Carl.ReplyDelete
Randall is just saying that messing around with a programming language is much more useful for carer success than taking classes on it. I happen to agree with his statement.
Except, you don't take classes on Perl in high school. Especially not in the amounts of time he's suggesting.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMay 1, 2009 at 10:15 PM
I know C++. I bet you don't.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMay 1, 2009 at 10:19 PM
There are lots of things that some people know and other people don't know. What does that have to do with this? Carl is pointing out that Mr. Munroe is pandering to an audience based on an extremely inconsistent and hypocritical track record. I mean, the dude doesn't even do his own coding for his own retardedly basic website. How are we supposed to take anything he says about professional software engineering careers seriously?ReplyDelete
"I happen to agree" is the ultimate expression of butthurt.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMay 2, 2009 at 9:33 AM
1) fluffy, rob said "Except, you don't take classes on Perl in high school. Especially not in the amounts of time he's suggesting." and that was my response. His reply was stupid, so I sarcastically replied stupidly.ReplyDelete
2) Luckzeh, you should really go one of those places where they sell brains. You currently have less brains than fluff fuzz over there. That's really sad. Here is to you:
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
..........''...\.......... _.·´
- AnonymousJune 1, 2009 at 10:30 AM
I'm a little late to the party, but I do believe that people are allowed to indulge in exaggeration to prove a point.ReplyDelete
See, because you're all angry and riled up at his misrepresentation, you remember the damn thing. So do the rest of us geeks and nerds who looked at that and chuckled, whether it was out of pity or just mild amusement.
This big bitchfest also seems to reek of bitterness. Shit, if you can't understand the webcomic, don't read it. There's probably a webcomic aimed at mildly retarded people somewhere...
- AnonymousJune 1, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Wow, nobody's ever used the "you don't like this comic so it must be too smart for you" line before. Way to go, Mr. Clever.ReplyDelete
Bitterness? Really?ReplyDelete
Hey, it doesn't matter if people hate XKCD, even if it's for stupid silly reasons. It doesn't change XKCD for you and if it does, that's not their fault for making you realize something.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousAugust 27, 2009 at 5:33 AM
Not sure if this is the elephant in the room or anything, and I know I'm late as hell (reading backwards through the blog), but... uh...ReplyDelete
Isn't the 'weird kid in homeroom' a reference to school shootings, or like that weird guy-sniper in Happy Gilmore?
oh god, I hope not. that would be a terrible, terrible joke to make. way worse than any other element of bad taste that Randall has given us.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousNovember 5, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Oh man Carl, you are so cool you can spend the whole day on the internet and you made two friends who just keep stroking your dick when nobody else GIVES A FUCK HOLY SHIT. protip: there are 3 distinct posters in the first 8 posts, and one of those posters is you.ReplyDelete
i never even thought i could make a single friend on the internet, and then Amanda showed up. Also Rob but he is a douche human dickbag. I am sorry that I haven't made friends with EVERYONE ON THE INTERNET yet but i am trying!ReplyDelete
omg carl i didn't know i was your first friend on the internet, we're so totally internet biffles nowReplyDelete
- AnonymousNovember 25, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Ok, so I actually like most of the xkcd comics and just stumbled across this site. My two cents...just like a couple of posts ago, my first thought was that the alt text was referring to school shootings...you know talking to that odd kid in the corner and becoming friends with him so when he finally loses it he won't kill you...which would be a pretty big career boost wouldn't it? I imagine having a career would be rather difficult if you were dead. If that was his intention, it was a little bit in bad taste but I still thought it was funny (and I'm ok with being a terrible person).ReplyDelete
some people brought up that possibility, but I think that isn't what he was going for. I think that joke would be in really bad taste, and I'm usually ok with bad taste. But I think it would be beyond anything else he's ever written.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 2, 2010 at 11:08 PM
I make $116,000 a year coding Perl. I made $120,000 the year previous on a telecommute gig. I'm self-taught from some initial messing around with it.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 4, 2010 at 8:00 AM
Did you learn it in one weekend?ReplyDelete
- AnonymousFebruary 15, 2010 at 9:55 PM
Hey, so I'm pretty late on this one. Some of your posts are legitimate, and amusing, criticisms. Some of them are either pathetic or deliberately miss the point for some cheap shots. This is one of the latter. His words were not perfectly clear, but it was pretty obvious that he was talking about his own, pre-xkcd career.ReplyDelete
Yes, I'm posting this on a few of your posts: you, like Mr. Munroe, seem to have trouble figuring out which of your ideas are worth sharing with the world and which are better left in your own head.
He was speaking from his own experience, but surely it was meant as a lesson to us, to learn from him?ReplyDelete
Suppose I tell you a story about the time I ate sushi and got food poisoning. It sucked! so hard. Anyway, why would I tell you that story? a) I think you care about my personal life (rather self-centered of me), b) I just felt like telling it for no good reason (stupid), c) I want you to take some lesson from it (be careful around sushi). Only C is a justification that doesn't mean I deserve to get punched. I'm open to other reasons, of course, but the question is, why did Randall make this comic? Is it about himself alone, or is it meant to hint at a general pattern?
- AnonymousApril 13, 2010 at 6:03 AM
I'm going to defend Randy here, while everything you said here is true... i kind of liked this comic and related to it. Most of the time I spent in class was, in my mind, wasbasically a waste. What really ended up being important to my future career was the time i spent drawing during lectures, the goof-off stuff I did to get out of "real" work.ReplyDelete
You never know what will end up shaping you or influencing you forever. In reference to the ALT text, I once went camping and some strange hobo dude came by and started a conversation with us, we ended up talking for 3 hours and what he said really affected and changed my views about politics, philosophy, etc.
So even if this comic isn't LITERALLY true for Randall, I think it applies to some people.
i don't believe you. What is your profession?ReplyDelete
the point isn't that it doesn't work. the point is that it's a stupid, pretentious, bullshit thing to say that isn't actually true for anyone. no, not even you, Mr. 'Teaches Students How To Doodle In The Corner Of Their Notebooks.' guarantee you wouldn't be doing that, or anything useful, if you hadn't done high school, and it's not because you can't do anything without a diploma. it's because education's primary purpose is to socialize you into the workforce and the rest of society.ReplyDelete
every idiot nerd out there thinks that his hobbies are so much more important to his life than the stuff he learns in school, but this is really not true. it's just something you like more.
- AnonymousApril 14, 2010 at 6:49 AM
i'm a graphic designer and illustrator. i dropped out of high school and finished out in continuation school (although I do have a college degree now) and ended up turning my hobby into my professional career. I'm not going to say my education didn't help round me out as a better and more complete person... I love math, science, history, etc. and knowledge is valuable - that said, when I was a freshman I was told that taking AP classes and foreign languages was *very important* to my future collegiate career and was turned away from taking art and creative writing classes because those were frivolous and I was supposed to be a serious student. I really regret listening to the advice my parents gave me back then because I took a lot of classes that I couldn't stand and gained nothing from instead of taking classes that would have enriched my life in areas I was actually interested in. I mean, I love having a diverse education but its the doodling that pays the bills.ReplyDelete
It took me a couple of years to realize that instead of trying to force myself into an education that I didn't care about so I could perform a job I didn't want, that I should instead do what I love to do (my idiot nerd hobby) and follow my "dreams".
my best friend was smarter than me though. He is a professional game programmer for warner bros - he dropped out of HS and turned his hobby into a 100k a year career.
I'm not arguing with you or trying to provoke hostility, it's just my subjective experience based on the small sample size of my good friends shows that hobbies can turn into profitable careers:
1) I have a college education but turned my hobby into a career. (my hobby: drawing, art)
2) my best bud makes 2x as much money as I do with a G.E.D. because of his hobby (his hobby: game programming)
3) my older brother has 2 bachelor degrees ( english and education) but owns his own mechanic shop (his hobby: fixing cars)
4) my cousin has a masters degree in library science and is a librarian at the University of Tennessee... (his hobby: he loves to read)
- AnonymousApril 14, 2010 at 6:57 AM
by the way, until I realized I should turn what I love to do into my career, I was a directionless clerk at a bookstore with no real future making 9 dollars an hour doing chump work.ReplyDelete
I'm really really really really really lucky to have the opportunity to do what I love to do for a living, I realize it isn't the case for everyone but it was for me and so I related to the comic.
Also, sorry if all of this came off as defensive.
by the way, if you guys are able to monetize this site's popularity, wouldn't you guys be making money doing your hobby? wouldn't it be great? I actually really enjoy this site and think you guys do a great job.
oh one more example...
www.oldmanmurray.com was a couple of guys that wrote funny video game reviews as a side hobby, the site ended up landing them a gig as writers for Valve. they wrote "Portal".
I think in your case, you are probably completely right. Your career has been more directly served by learning art than other things. I don't think that means the other things weren't useful though - I think, for example, that any business will benefit from having people who speak other languages. Getting in the habit of studying and learning is always helpful for any profession.ReplyDelete
Of your other three examples, 2 also seems to be an example of what you are talking about, but with 3 I am not as sure - yes, fixing cars isn't something you usually learn in a high school, but you do have to learn it somewhere and it certainly doesn't happen from messing around for a weekend. And 4 I think is meant as a counterexample, right? Because that one helps prove my point - the stuff he learned in school was very important to his career (loving your career or not loving it being mostly irrelevant here).
As you say in your second comment, you are very lucky, and I'm happy for you. Randall Munroe is similarly lucky (though in his case, school was FAR more important than learning perl). But the comic makes it seem like this is a sort of universal truth, that he is saying this will generally be true of everyone. Or if it's not, it's him bragging that it's true for him. It's one or the other, I don't like either.
Anyway, thanks for writing this and I am sorry it took so long to respond.
- AnonymousApril 21, 2010 at 8:38 AM
hello again - thanks for the response :) Just one more thought on this subject: I think one of high school's most important functions is to expose people to a lot of the options and potential professions that are available to you. It's like high school throws a bunch of new ideas at you all at once to see if anything "sticks". Sure, 80% of people won't use chemistry in their daily lives, but without exposing everyone to those classes, people who love and end up wanting to pursue chemistry may never have been exposed to that option.ReplyDelete
I guess I am playing both sides here but while I have always loved art, I was really exposed to the digital side of it because I took a mass media class in high school and learned to use computers as a tool to create art. Likewise, my friend who is a game programmer started programming with a graphic calculator he would have never owned if it wasn't for a high school class he was in...
now to contradict the above, I will say that 1 weekend screwing around with dreamweaver exposed me to web development and because of that weekend I became interested in web work and I was able to pay my way through art and design school designing sites for people, if I turned web design into my career, it could be argued that the one weekend of me screwing around had as big of an influence on my future as the time i spent in classes in high school.
I don't know - I actually think its a combination of everything you're exposed to in life that makes you who you are and you never know what will influence you to evolve/change/grow...
anyways, thanks for the dialog and keep up the good work!
The comic suggests that it's only worthwhile studying something if it will help in your career. I know Randall looks down on "liberal arts majors" but you'd think some notion of being educated in history, literature, and philosophy in order to be a better citizen and human being might have stuck.ReplyDelete
Look at how much damage the brilliant monomaths running/regulating Wall Street have done. There's more to living a good life than having a successful career. There's more to education than vocational training.
- AnonymousJune 17, 2010 at 10:59 PM
School sucks, at least highschool, I always got super bad grades because I never really cared.ReplyDelete
When I took my BA. I was the first of my class.
One weekend messing with perl is much more useful than a whole month of class!
sounds like you have lousy classmates! Or, you have smart classmates who didn't try very hard. Or they tried but did badly on the test. Or maybe the test was a bad way to measure knowledge.ReplyDelete
or maybe if you'd cared, you would have been a success in life.
Sorry carl, I usually enjoy your criticisms, but I feel that you've missed the point of this comic. Teaching of computer science is usually very poor at a high school/secondary school (in the uk) level, and very often trying to learn it yourself is actually a better option.ReplyDelete
As an anecdotal example I'm pretty sure that I've learnt more about programming trying to teach myself c++ than the VB shit we were taught in my computer science course.
I agree that it is important to pay attention in classes, but the point about comparing cs to physics and maths is that its so much younger.
We've had hundreds if not thousands of years to work out how to teach maths and science and most other subjects well, but as cs is relatively young most courses do a bad job of teaching it, either focussing too much on one aspect or spreading itself too thin.
- AnonymousJuly 15, 2010 at 4:52 AM
Assuming Randall is ONLY criticizing the class-related aspects of ONLY 11th grade education, this is still a very weak argument that the value of the education can be marginalized. I'm not sure what high schools you all went to, but even my average public high school taught me plenty about math, chemistry, biology, languages, history, not to mention discipline, thought, interaction, motivation, etc. which would be helpful later on in life.ReplyDelete
Personal testimony aside, it's a cognitive fallacy to attribute the greatest contribution to an outcome to the penultimate factor. Would it have even been possible to learn PERL without the ability to read? the ability to comprehend logic or work math? the foundation that permitted the house to be built? Why do people have so much trouble realizing that the purpose of general education is not to provide specific instruction on how to do your future job. No, it's to expand the mind enough to give it the option to pursue more specific interest. And sometimes it's just vanity. Would a software company interviewer take you seriously if you thought that the Boston Tea Party occurred at noontime in a living room or that the sun lands on the ground at dusk? This is extremely basic knowledge you need and take for granted because you DID learn from school.
More likely, this seems to be a generalized attack on education, which is foolish and doesn't even deserve the coordinated response above.
Thank you for that, anon. i wish more people thought like you.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJuly 20, 2010 at 2:21 AM
Well perhaps I'm a bit biased because I'm one of those few people who actually enjoyed their education (still in college!) apart from the benefits it provides. But it just disturbs me whenever people attack education, so I always respond to such arguments.ReplyDelete
In fact the issue of the comic is much more complicated than I made it out to be above, but what really matters boils down to the effect of the comic rather than the intent. Randall made the comic ambiguous enough that I don't really disapprove of it fundamentally. But if it makes people go "ah well screw education in general - he's completely right!" then I must interject.
Common argument: high school didn't help me because I decided I'd do ___ instead which does not require high school education. How would (will) you have known that if you hadn't been exposed to the concepts and been given the opportunity to find out what you like? That's what I'd like to know: why are people so ungrateful that they've been given the OPPORTUNITY for higher education, an opportunity which was fought for and won by our predecessors. This idea of a sidetrack during high school proving more effective than the education itself also misses the crucial point that it is made possible by the learning environment created by being in institutionalized education (even the social exchanges made possible by such an environment). It still comes down to the notion that high school is an OPPORTUNITY. I think I've stressed that word enough.
Looking back on the comments, however, it seems that nobody actually seriously voiced those issues I argued against. So it seems we're actually mostly safe and on the same page. =D
PS: Are we just arguing about high school? Because elementary/middle school are more obviously necessary for anybody to experience. High school may seem redundant/unnecessary, but it's really a boon for the reasons above.
I think we're just talking about high school. You'd be hard pressed to argue that a basic primary education is helpful, or that the rudiments that you learn in middle school are something everyone is expected to know.ReplyDelete
Forgive my digression then.ReplyDelete
PS: It took me a while to realize both you and Carl write for this blog. Also. I made an account so I'm here to stay!
welcome kelvin.ReplyDelete
hey here is a joke randall would make:
ok with that out of the way: i do the vast majority of the posting here, though not all, and Rob sits around and is my fat lap dog who takes care of yelling at people in the comments. he sucks and no one likes him.
- AnonymousAugust 15, 2010 at 12:51 PM
I'm really nervous now, because I don't think you understand the point of this comic, or any of the others which you deemed "bad". All the things you say he means, such as talking to strangers/kissing people is good, etc, isn't meant, just like in this one he doesn't mean that school is overrated and learning computer science is the only thing that matters.ReplyDelete
You can't argue that the American school system isn't doing the best that it can, and anyone who sticks JUST with the curriculum is missing out on A LOT. You have to look at the big picture.
ok, and the big picture of this one is "school didn't do anything for my fictional perl-based career."ReplyDelete
writ large, this one reads, big picture-style: "high school is overrated guys"
- AnonymousJanuary 7, 2011 at 9:44 AM
You should name this site "Wooosh!" for the sound of the joke that consistently flies over your head.ReplyDelete


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The Eclipse Foundation has released Kepler for 2013 in its normal annual "predictable coordinated release" summer timeframe. This project involves 420 developers from 54 different organizations and over 58 million lines of code.
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"The Eclipse release trains are very important to the success and growth of the entire Eclipse ecosystem," said Mike Milinkovich, executive director of the Eclipse Foundation. "Users and adopters of Eclipse technology know they can rely upon a predictable annual release schedule, so organizations are confident about using Eclipse technology as their software development platform."
Highlights of the Kepler release include support for Java EE 7 inside the Eclipse Web Tools Project (WTP) 3.5 -- and support for JPA 2.1, JSF 2.2, JAX-RS 2.0, Servlet 3.1, EJB 3.2, Connector 1.7, App Client 7.0, and EAR 7.0. Eclipse WTP project and code generation wizards, content assist, and validation have been updated so Java developers can easily create, debug, and deploy Java EE 7 compliant applications.
There is a new Business Process Management (BPM) suite in the shape of Eclipse Stardust 1.0, where you can find a modeling environment to create and debug workflow models, a process engine to execute BPM applications, a web portal for browser-based execution and monitoring of business processes, and an Eclipse BIRT-based reporting component for runtime monitoring and reporting BPM applications.
Also addressed in this release are scalability and usability of web-based IDE considerations with the Orion 3.0 release. Orion can now be installed as a WAR file to a Java application server to deploy cloud services. Orion usability has been improved to include direct file navigation in the editor, new key bindings (vi and Emacs), auto-save/auto load, and a new look and feel.
New support for big data also features here. Eclipse BIRT 4.3 introduces support for the MongoDB and Cassandra databases, and allows for easy integration of the BIRT visualization capabilities into big data applications. This new support is in addition to the existing Hadoop support provided by BIRT.
The foundation also speaks of better integration for code reviews. Mylyn 3.9 is said to make it "a lot easier" to conduct code review within Eclipse. A new navigator view integrated with Gerrit shows the structured view of all the files and comments of a review.
Finally, there is improved integration with Maven for Java EE Developers with the Maven integration with the Eclipse Web Tools Project (WTP). This provides a set of connectors that add Maven support for Java EE related Eclipse projects, including war, ejb, ear, and rar projects.


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Paper of record is, in short, a term used to define a newspaper that functions as the legal organ of an area; that is, the newspaper is responsible, whether officially or unofficially, for publishing public notices required by law for certain instances, such as rezoning efforts or changes to statute.
For genealogists, the paper of record can be a goldmine of information as it contains legal notices that might be missing from court records, for whatever reason (e.g. the court minutes were destroyed). This includes notices to debtors and creditors for an estate, notice of two parties divorcing, and notice of sheriff's sales, or any other instance where public notice was required by law.
In Rabun County, the current paper of record is The Clayton Tribune. While the Tribune has been published off and on from 1897 to the present, it wasn't always the paper of record for Rabun County. During the late 1910s and early 1920s, the Tri-County Advertiser, published in Clarkesville, Habersham County, Georgia, was the paper of record for Rabun County.
Before the Tribune was published, other newspapers served as Rabun County's legal organ. During the 1850s, the Southern Banner out of Athens, Georgia filled this function. From at least 1878 to the time the Tribune was first published, the Gainesville Eagle, published in Hall County, was the paper of record, although the Clarkesville Advertiser, the Tri-County Advertiser's precursor, and the Clayton Argus may have been used as the paper of record during the 1890s. Issues of the Tri-County Advertiser, the Gainesville Eagle, and the Clayton Tribune are still on file in the Probate Judge's office at the county courthouse in Clayton.
A little research into local historical newspapers can yield a great reward for the family historian. Recent efforts to preserve these papers have resulted in the formation of newspaper projects by large universities and state libraries. The University of Georgia's Georgia Newspaper Project was the first such project I learned of and used. For information on other state historical newspaper collections, see the United States Newspaper Project, courtesy of the National Endowment for the Humanities.


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For some families, the end of summer means back-to-school mayhem. But for those near or in retirement, it could be time to move to a warmer climate to enjoy nice weather and a lower cost of living for more of the year.
Kathleen Peddicord (right), founder and publisher of Live and Invest Overseas, will be meeting about 250 people in early September in San Antonio to help them carefully consider their options.
ThinkAdvisor spoke with Peddicord recently about why more retirees think leaving the country may be the way to go, and what this trend means for advisors.
Who do you expect to speak with at your Sept. 4-6 event?
What we are finding is that the average age of our attendees is getting younger and younger.
For instance, at one of our events in Panama, where we are based, held about 20 years ago, some 80% of the 100 guests or so would be age 60 and up.
Now, more and more, we meet with people in their 40s and 50s, and even some in their 20s and 30s. For example, a 28-year-old came to a recent meeting in Panama.
These are people who are thinking big picture and long term.
Can you explain how people can live for $1,200 a month or less?
At our events, we have breakout sessions about 22 countries where this is possible and about focused topics, like taxation.
For $700-$800 a month, you can live in handful of locations on such a modest budget, though probably not in Mexico, which is more like $1,200 and up a month.
While there are off-the-beaten-track places in Ecuador, say, or Nicaragua, it's really Asia where you have the cheapest options — Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines.
In Mexico and other parts of Latin America, the trend has been for the cost of living to go up, but Asia is one of the most affordable parts of the world to live in. You can budget $1,000 or less if you go really local.
(Check out Top 10 Best Foreign Countries for Retirement: 2013)
This is about how you live: Do you take public transportation rather than having a car? Do you use your air conditioner some of the time rather than 24/7?
When you talk about places that are some distance from major cities, there are cheap places in Ecuador, Nicaragua and Panama where you can live for $400-$500 a month. But in parts of Asia, you can even live for as little as $200-$250 a month.
If you have a bigger budget, it's also worth noting that you can get household help — which is a big advantage — at an affordable price, say $100 a month or less in Vietnam vs. $200-$250 a month in Latin America.
How about health care costs?
This is a significant issue, and this is where Asia really shines with medical care that is a fraction of the cost compared with the U.S. and Latin America.
Note we are talking about places in Thailand well outside of Bangkok — say near Chang Mai in a village, where there are no Miami-style hospitals but local health care that you can get for a few dollars.
If you are not willing to get over the health care hump, which can be one of the biggest hurdles to a lower budget, then you need to stick to a major population center.
You can still cut costs and have an adventure by living overseas … but you'll need to be somewhere like Panama City or Quito, Ecuador, or Montevideo [Uruguay].
In other words, if you want first-world health care, you are not going to be able to retire on $800 a month. But with $1,200 a month, there are many good options, and you don't have to be so remote.
Why are so many people interested in living abroad today?
There are so many factors behind this. First, there's a big and growing population looking for the best possible way to retire.
The Baby Boomers are a huge force. They want the best retirement options and look carefully to identify them.
Also, they see threats to Social Security, have questions about the costs of Obamacare, and face high-cost assisted living and retirement communities. Decent housing is very expensive in the United States, as is health care.
Look at all the other cost factors. Maybe you've lost equity in your home or your retirement portfolio has been hit or isn't what you expected. Then there are the worries over Social Security on top these concerns.
People are better traveled, healthier, better educated and more interested in living overseas than ever before. Some Baby Boomers may be fed up with the U.S. government and worried about their financial future, so they decide to try something else. They are asking themselves, why not opt out and have some fun?
As people, especially from areas like the Midwest, ask this question, a very interesting migration is taking place.
What do you say to some of your clients about their relationship with their financial advisors as they move overseas?
We encourage them to keep this relationship.
Of course, when some people move overseas, they choose to break all their ties and cash out their portfolio, business assets, etc.
Much more common, however, is a compromise approach. They move overseas part time, say to Belize, and spend half the year in Florida with their grandkids. They might keep some of their money overseas in a foreign bank account.
With financial matters, there needs to be diversification. There's no 100% guarantee with anything.
To deal with that … we recommend that investors not take all their assets with them. The key to success is diversification: keep some presence and assets in the United States, which for some investors means maintaining their relationship with a financial advisor. There's generally no reason to walk away from that.
I also recommend working with that advisor to diversify what you have, so you have some holdings in foreign markets and currencies and are not 100% at the mercy of U.S. markets, politics, etc.
It's also important to maintain a relationship with an accountant or tax consultant in both places. When you move to a new country, your U.S. tax burden may be reduced. It depends on lots of factors, but discussing this with two tax experts is helpful.
Check out Top 10 Best Foreign Countries for Retirement: 2013 on ThinkAdvisor.


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WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama will let his jobs council expire this week without renewing its charter, winding down one source of input from the business community even as unemployment remains stubbornly high.
When Obama in January 2011 formed his Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, unemployment was hovering above 9 percent. Two years later, more than 12 million people in the U.S. are out of work. The unemployment rate has fallen to 7.8 percent, but both parties agree that's still too high.
A provision in Obama's executive order establishing the council says it sunsets on Thursday. A White House official said the president does not plan to extend it.
Officials said the president always intended for the council to fulfill its mission and then wind down, and said Obama would continue to actively engage and seek input from business leaders about ways to accelerate job-creation and economic growth. Among the steps Obama plans to pursue are expedited permits for infrastructure projects, plus programs to boost entrepreneurship and workforce development.
Even before it was clear whether Obama would renew the jobs council, Republicans seized on its likely expiration as evidence the president has devoted insufficient attention to creating jobs, which polling shows remains a top priority for Americans. The Republican National Committee dubbed it part of "the failed Obama record," while the House Republicans' campaign committee, in an online petition, accused Obama of laying off his own jobs council.
Adding to the concern about the job market's continued vulnerability, the Commerce Department said Wednesday that the U.S. economy shrank at an annual rate of 0.1 percent from October through December of last year, the first quarterly drop since 2009. The Federal Reserve said the economy appears to have "paused in recent months."
The jobs council was a successor to another economic advisory board Obama created at the onset of his presidency. The panel was chaired by General Electric CEO Jeff Immelt and was composed of prominent business leaders and economists. Immelt said Thursday that progress has been made on implementing 90 percent of the council's recommendations.
"While each member of the jobs council provided a different perspective, we were unified by a shared dedication to accelerating job creation and economic growth in this country," Immelt said in a statement released by the White House.
Obama met with the council only a handful of times. During the last meeting, in February 2012, the president and the council highlighted an engineering education initiative alongside school deans.
"The president treated his jobs council as more of a nuisance than a vehicle to spur job creation," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, arguing that the council's expiration exposed Obama's disinterest in learning from job-creators.
The jobs council's main work product was report released in January 2012, titled "Roadmap to Renewal." The council also organized a series of "listening and action" meetings across the country last year with business owners, local elected officials and academics, although Obama didn't attend those sessions.
Critics have argued that the council's primary purpose was to create the appearance of action at a time when the nation was pining for something — anything — to rein in soaring joblessness. The administration acted on many of the council's recommendations, including suggestions to streamline permitting and small business loans, increase tourist visas and boost energy efficiency.
But the White House was at odds with several council members on tax policies, particularly a proposal to exclude overseas corporate earnings from U.S. taxes. That idea divided even the jobs council, whose membership included labor and Obama's political allies.
The council's dissolution also comes as White House aides are optimistic about the prospects for a second-term detente with the business community, which bristled during Obama's first term at his harsh depiction of "fat-cat bankers" and his efforts to impose regulations, tax policies and spending initiatives they argued were unfriendly to business. Obama aides hope the softening of the relationship between the president and the business world can benefit the White House in future fiscal debates with Republicans.
White House officials said the president made a fresh effort to reach out to business in the days following his re-election. Between the November election and the end of 2012, in the height of negotiations to avert the so-called fiscal cliff, more than 400 business leaders, ranging from CEOs of large multinational companies to small business owners, met with Obama or his aides at the White House, officials said.
Associated Press writer Jim Kuhnhenn and AP White House Correspondent Julie Pace contributed to this report.


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