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The X90 sports the whole array of user-friendly features typically found in Pentax's compact range. There is Smile Capture, Blink Detection – the Face Detection can identify up to 32 different faces in a fraction of a second – and a new Baby Mode. The D-Range setting helps minimise over/under exposure and you've a number of Digital Filters for artistic applications (B&W, Sepia, Colours, Extract Colour, Colour Enhancement, Toy Camera, Retro, Soft, Fisheye, Brightness).
In-camera digital cropping techniques take the 26x optical zoom images up to 162.5x
Among the point-and-shoot options is a digital ISO-boosting mode that increases stabilisation by reducing resolution, which drops to 5Mp. Besides the Programmed AE Mode that selects the optimal aperture and shutter speed there's Auto Picture, which automatically sets the correct shooting mode for each given scene including macro. Other options include Scene, Sport and Anti-Shake with more creative manual or semi-manual modes available from control wheel above the thumb rest.
With good aperture selection and shutter speeds ranging from 4s to 1/4000s the X90 does have the potential to satisfy the enthusiastic photographer that wants to upgrade from the point-and-shoot without investing into a DSLR system. To increase flexibility, Pentax also added a pro-like macro mode that allows shooting close-up subjects just 1 cm away, which I found to be quite impressive in use. This function works only at the wide end of the zoom lens but it does produce a beautiful richness of detail.
The X90 has a very useful resolution selector that lets you reduce capture resolution, by increments, all the way down to VGA and a choice of four different image recording formats: 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 and 1:1. Alas, there's no RAW capture support. The LCD screen is quite sharp and bright with a decent angle of view and so is the viewfinder, although not really accurate enough for manual focusing.
This camera's best characteristic is certainly the new optical zoom lens that offers an effective focal range of 26-676mm at f/2.8-5.0. The build quality of the lens is excellent continuing Pentax's established tradition of manufacturing good affordable optics. It has a large dynamic range, edge-to-edge sharpness, almost no chromatic aberration and barrel distortion well within the expected levels. It is also surprisingly fast, traveling through its whole focal range in just under three seconds.
Besides various preset modes, there are manual exposure options too
To make this camera even more appealing to photo enthusiasts, Pentax has added what it calls an Intelligent Zoom function. If you keep your finger on the zoom lever, after arriving to the maximum focal length, the lens will keep magnifying the image, with increasing drops in resolution, up until a whopping 162.5x at VGA resolution (focal length 4225mm). The image of course is hopelessly degraded, as it is basically just a digital crop of the optical one, but if you are into 'binocular' photography this feature certainly adds a wow factor.


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It is an honor to address you as the new Dean of the School of Natural Sciences & Mathematics. I cannot imagine a more exciting time to join Team UTD as this institution is experiencing unprecedented growth in all academic areas.
I joined UT Dallas from North Carolina State University where I served since 1998 as head of the Chemistry Department and Chaired Chemistry Professor in the College of Physical & Mathematical Sciences. Attracted by the ambitious agenda set forth by our upper administration, I stand ready to meet the challenges associated with elevating this institution into the Tier One research university rankings.
Joining me in this quest for excellence is a cadre of new faculty performing research in topical areas ranging in size and diversity from the smallest nano-machines to the great cosmos itself. These new research programs join a host of others that in aggregate provide our students with hands on opportunities in frontier areas of science, math and technology. In our evolving research environment, NS&M students can participate in:
- developing remote sensing and monitoring systems on a global scale to provide real-time comprehensive pictures and measurements of both natural and man-made events;
- studying the fluctuations in the earth's magnetic field over planetary history to better understand the structural evolution of our planet and our futures;
- developing new flexible solar panels that can be incorporated into backpacks or clothing so that you can recharge your computer while walking between classrooms;
- studying the harsh "weather" in space, well above our atmosphere, where today's satellites, telescopes, communications channels and humans now routinely operate;
- discovering and furthering the mathematical underpinning of today's physical theories that will guide our future technological advances;
- learning new approaches of delivering science, technology and mathematics education to our Texas youth so that they too are equipped to share in these new adventures;
- un-teasing the intricate molecular dances that make up living organisms and create medical pathways of putting them back in-step when ever they falter.
All of this and much more awaits the incoming Freshman class whom make up the largest single incoming class of any of the seven UT Dallas Schools. To meet the needs of this growing student body the University is also building infrastructure that includes the Science Learning Center which provides more than 75,000 square feet of instructional space for our introductory-level courses in the basic sciences. By providing this first-class space to our newest students, UT Dallas is sending a clear message on the importance of great teaching and great teaching facilities.
To both visitors and UTD colleagues I invite you to take a look at the changing face of the School of Natural Sciences & Mathematics.
Bruce Novak, PhD
- Updated: December 17, 2018

subset: commoncrawl


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English Worksheets
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Activity Worksheets
Flash Cards
Craft Activities
PRINTABLE Tracing worksheets for pre schoolers..... Developing tracing skills
Activity worksheets for Preschoolers
Worksheets for Preschoolers
Worksheets for Toddlers
Tracing Homework Worksheets
Printable Tracing Worksheets
Developing tracing skills for kids
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Tips to Help Children Develop Healthy Habits
You can help your child develop healthy habits early in life that will bring lifelong benefits.
As a parent, you can encourage your kids to evaluate their food choice and physical activity habits. Here are some tips and guidelines to get you started.
Be a good role model
You don't have to be perfect all the time, but if kids see you trying to eat right and getting physically active, they'll take notice of your efforts. You'll send a message that good health is important to your family.
Keep things positive
Kid's don't like to hear what they can't do, tell them what they can do instead. Keep it fun and positive. Everyone likes to be praised for a job well done. Celebrate successes and help children and teens develop a good self-image
Get the whole family moving
Plan times for everyone to get moving together. Take walks, ride bikes, go swimming, garden or just play hide-and-seek outside. Everyone will benefit from the exercise and the time together.
Be realistic
Setting realistic goals and limits are key to adopting any new behavior. Small steps and gradual changes can make a big difference in your health over time, so start small and build up.
Limit TV, video game and computer time
These habits lead to a sedentary lifestyle and excessive snacking, which increase risks for
cardiovascular disease
. Limit screen time to 2 hours per day.
Encourage physical activities that they'll really enjoy
Every child is unique. Let your child experiment with different activities until they find something that they really love doing. They'll stick with it longer if they love it. check out these
activities for kids
Pick truly rewarding rewards
Don't reward children with tv, video games, candy or snacks for a job well done. Find other ways to celebrate good behavior.
Make dinnertime a family time
When everyone sits down together to eat, there's less chance of children eating the wrong foods or snacking too much. Get your kids involved in cooking and planning meals. Everyone develops good eating habits together and the quality time with the family will be an added bonus.
Make a game of reading food labels
The whole family will learn what's good for their health and be more conscious of what they eat. It's a habit that helps change behavior for a lifetime. Learn more about
reading nutrition labels
Stay involved
Be an advocate for healthier children. Insist on good food choices at school. Make sure your children's healthcare providers are monitoring cardiovascular indicators like BMI, blood pressure and cholesterol. Contact public officials on matters of the heart. Make your voice heard.
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PRINTABLE.... Alphabets ( A - Z ) Tracing Sheets
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KIDZ GURU : Printable -- Alphabets ( A - Z ) Activity Sheets
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Posts tagged 'Energy'
Hammarby, the eco-friendly district in Stockholm
As I already mentioned in one of my previous posts, I visited Stockholm some weeks ago. Stockholm is 2010 European Green Capital and a city full of nature, water and parks.
I was very curious about the new eco-friendly district of Hammarby. This new district is the result of the urban re-designing of an area situated in the southern part of the city. This was an industrial area occupied by workshops and small factories (in many cases without permission).
The City decided to expand to the south and the district of Hammarby was the best area to do so. The requirements were set very high from the very beginning, and the new constructions were built according to the latest environmental requirements.
Re-designing a new district is something that takes a very long time, from the planning to the implementation. Many aspects need to be taken into account, especially if the aim is creating a place where people want to live according to high quality standards and, at the same time, with the highest respect to the environment.
The new district of Hammarby is impressive. It is considered as a model of urban sustainable development. Again, green and water are everywhere, which is not new in a city like Stockholm.
I visited the GlashusEtt, Hammarby information centre, where hey encouraged me to walk around the district, take pictures and check the inner patios. The GlashusEtt plays a very important role as a place where citizens can look for information, and where they can get assistance concerning waste management, energy efficiency and other issues dealing with sustainability.
Waste and Energy
The buildings have been built in order to fulfill high standards of energy efficiency, and there is an advanced waste treatment system.
One of the things that got my attention was that the apartment buildings display big windows to capture the sunlight and save energy costs, which is so important in the long Swedish winter, and the not so sunny Scandinavian summer.
Some of the buildings have solar panels. Biofuel from organic waste and biogas from waste water (sewage sludge) allow that the district creates great part of the energy used, allowing a high degree of self-sufficiency (the aim is that, when the district is fully built in 2017, Hammarby residents produce 50% of the energy they require).
Furthermore, rainwater is drained into the Hammarby lake, after proper treatment, allowing it to re-join the natural water cycle.
A District Built at Human Scale
To walk through the streets of Hammarby is a relaxing experience, the district is built at a human scale and one has the impression that life happens in a continuum between the apartments and the streets. The "dividing line" between apartments and street is very blurry. People living in Hammarby can enjoy street life thanks to their gardens and community patios.
You can actually watch people in the street, basking in the sun, kids playing in the street. Hammarby is a living quarter, with shops, restaurants and small businesses.
Preserving Biodiversity
The planners have tried to preserve biodiversity, by preserving an old oak wood with old trees. At first it was planned that this oak wood should be cut down, however, protests from the people could save this area, which now connects the district with its rural past.
Furthermore, in order to preserve biodiversity, the planners have built eco-corridors that cross the highway (!). This way, seeds and animals can easily cross over the highway. These corridors are actually bridges fully covered with green (trees, plants etc.)
The City Bought the Land
I think that one of the secrets of the success of Hammarby is that the City bought the land prior to proceeding with the planning and construction of the district. This prevented from speculation and makes a difference compared to other new-built areas in Europe.
It's hard to think that such a project could raise criticism, however there are some things that were pointed out by people I was talking to during my holidays in Stockholm:
- Transport. Hammarby District is not in the centre of Stockholm and the lake acts a natural barrier between the district and the rest of the city. Many complained that it is not easy to reach Hammarby, however, the district is well covered by bike lanes and bus lines. The new tramway that will connect Hammarby with Slussen (Stockholm downtown) will soon be working. Furthermore there is a free ferry that connects Hammarby with Stockholm every 10 minutes.
- Housing prices. Living in a place like Hammarby is not cheap. It is a fancy, new, citizen-friendly district where housing prices are high, despite the fact that many of the apartments are public property. If Hammarby becomes a district for hipsters then the model will have failed; let's just hope it won't be the case.
- Transition model. There are allotment gardens in one of the blocks, and some of the neighbors grow their own vegetables in the balconies or in collective areas. However ,the whole idea of sustainability and green would be much more reinforced if the district would support other ways of sustainability, such as the transition model. In many ways, Hammarby is already a place where they produce their own energy, but I think that Hammarby should do more in terms of being less dependent from food coming from outside the district, that is producing their own food (in community gardens, etc) thus reducing the carbon footprint.


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Celebrating illustration, design, cartoon and comic art of the mid-20th century.
Monday, August 27, 2012
Gustav Rehberger: "He speaks softly but he paints with a big stick"
Since that time I've kept in touch with Pamela Demme, Rehberger's widow, who last week sent me some interesting new (to me) examples of her late husband's work.
Before we look at those pieces however, here are a few Rehberger illustrations I still hadn't scanned from some mid-'50s issues of Everywoman magazine I own.
Fortuitously, one of those issues included a capsule biography and photo of the artist...
I love how Rehberger is described as "painting with a big stick." How true! I have never found Rehberger's work to be pretty - it's appeal for me is in its energetic, unvarnished honesty.
Rehberger's ink line drawings have an appeal of their own - reminiscent of Ben Stahl's work.
And that finally brings us to the art Pamela recently brought to my attention:
"NEW YORK by Rehberger" - 1948 - is a show at the New York Transit Museum of 22 original subway cards (11x14) done in pen and ink in 1948 by Gustav Rehberger.
He illustrated 22 places of interest around New York: The New Public Library, The Bronx Children's Zoo, The George Washington Bridge, The Washington Arch, Square Dancing in Manhattan, the statue of Balto, Greeley Square, etc.
Pamela tells me the artworks will be on display until 12/2/2012. There should be more information on the exhibit at the Transit Museum's website, but I wasn't able to locate a specific reference to it. I've contacted the curator and will append this post if I hear anything back.
13 comments:
- Anonymous1:25 PM
My father was a personal friend of Gustav. When I was a very young boy, maybe 5 yrs old, my father and I visited Gustav in his Carnegie Hall studio. Gustav was very nice and talkative with me as I remember it. He asked me what my favorite thing in the world was. Being five, of course it was a super hero, The Incredible Hulk. He asked me what in the world is that, surely he was not watching much TV. He asked to describe it as he stood behind something much taller than I. I explained how Bruce Banner's muscles grow so big they rip through his clothes until he has nothing but riped purple shorts on and messy hair. I did my impersonation of a muscular figure, not really knowing what he was doing. Then he turned to his easel around and said does he look like this? I remember being surprised and saying "yes, but he's green"! Lot's of laughter and then he filled in with some green accents.ReplyDelete
I'll never forget that day and always cherish this picture. It's amazing to think that he had no idea what the hulk even was and this was his result. I'll also remember a warm hearted man who paid such special attention to a child and shared his gift.
My family has many of his dramatic paintings and drawings to this day.
I moved to NYC in May 1981 and decided after a time to overcome my trepidation and sign up for life drawing classes at the Art Student's League of NY. I chose to register for Mr. Rehberger's class because his robust, energetic work was just my meat, my having been a fan of Frank Frazetta's work since adolescence.ReplyDelete
I started in Fall 1982 and continued with Rehberger for about six years--12 months of each year--until he had to take a leave of absence due to his first bout with cancer. I moved on to several other excellent instructors after that, and did not return to Rehberger's class when he returned from his leave, (mostly because my schedule had by then changed and his classes did not fit it, but also because I saw that it was good to move on). In Rehberger's class my drawing really developed. Unlike many of his students, I did not try to ape his style, but the vigor of his work always stimulated me and kept me working at improving my drawings. I will always regret that the book he said he was preparing never was completed, (or was never published if there was a completed manuscript).
Bravo for the remembrance of this dynamic artist and character, (he WAS a character!).
I was a drawing student in Gustav Rehberger's class in 1985, when attending the Art Student's League. He made quite an impression on me too. To this day, 30 years later, I remember a teacher who would inspire everyone with his enthusiasm and passion for gesture and beautiful form. He would say something like, 'Look at that back!' and go into an artistic revelry. He took a couple of other students and me to his Carnegie Hall studio, showed us drawers full of amazing drawings of horses and ballet dancers. I wished so much I could have bought one. I would have loved to take a painting class from him. However, I was a student from California, so that was my only class with Gustav Rehberger. He loomed large in my artistic odyssey in New York City.ReplyDelete
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Frog Themed Spoon Pipe
- Frog themed glass smoking pipe
- Glass marbles on bowl
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We offers a variety of packages
Above you can compare our pet fence systems, and below you'll find our individual products. Our specialty collar-receivers may replace the typically included collar units to cater to your pets individual needs. All specialty receivers come standard with UltraCare™, a full lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects plus protection against accidental damage.
UltraElite Receiver
At 1.3 ounces, your pet will hardly notice the UltraElite Receiver® – unless they move into a restricted zone. We designed the UltraElite with your pet's day-to-day comfort and safety in mind. Each receiver can be individually programmed to meet the specific personality of your pet. We have also built several features into our receivers to help reinforce the initial training your pet receives.
Reaction Time
Pet Stop Smart Receiver collars react faster than any other brand of receiver. While the EcoLite Receiver reacts in just 80 milliseconds, the UltraElite® is not far behind. Don't be fooled by fancy names or competitive claims. Only Pet Stop is engineered to be the safest and fastest receiver available.
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Small yards are no problem at all for Pet Stop technology. Our boundary fences offer settings to create a one-sided signal zone around the perimeter wire in order to maximize the amount of yard your pet can enjoy.
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Knowing when to change the battery, or recharge it in rechargeable models, is a critical requirement for safe Pet-containment. The Pet Stop exclusive FlashAlert will remind you to replace the battery before your pet gets loose. This is a true battery-monitoring system — not a timed reminder like you might find in other brands.
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We engineer for safety even against rare situations. In the unlikely event your pet gets caught and held within range of the signal field, the patented Pet Stop SafetyStop feature limits the correction to a maximum of 20 seconds. Frighteningly, other systems don't include this fail-safe or they configure the receiver to cycle without end until the battery is depleted.
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Your dealer will help you select the mode best suited for your pet.
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The Pet Stop transmitters and receivers work in conjunction to provide a pure signal free from interference and false corrections from other devices.
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This highly effective Pet Stop exclusive puts an end to attempting-to-escape issues by extending the correction for different intervals. This feature is for pets who have started to challenge their learning by exceeding their boundaries on a regular basis. This allows us to extend the correction for preset intervals to further reinforce the training and solve the problem of the chronic tester always trying to find a way to escape.


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This video is almost certainly the launch video for Nvidia's new GPU, the GeForce GTX680, leaked ahead of schedule.
In the video, Nvidia's VP of corporate marketing Ujesh Desai walks us through the new features of the superpowered GPU, focusing on a new feature called "GPU Boost," which takes unused power and reroutes it to processing tasks, essentially overclocking the card on the fly.
He also demonstrates a new type of anti-aliasing he calls TXAA, which allows for much smoother, better-performing AA in games, as well as updates to the PhysX physics system and some high quality hair-simulation. At one point, a giant Bigfoot-looking thing gets blow-dried.
I haven't gotten a new graphics card in a while, and while I don't usually throw down for top-of-the-line stuff, I would like to see Skyrim running on four monitors someday...


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Looks like you waited too late. The publisher has decided to pull it from the shelves. (Hat tip: American Creation.)
Why they didn't get somebody to vet the text more carefully before printing and marketing it is entirely beyond me. I'm guessing Barton will self-publish it through WallBuilders, as he did with his earlier books.


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PureDWTS Karina Smirnoff and Ralph Macchio Attend 2013 Santa Barbara International Film Festival
Together again! This past week, Karina Smirnoff and Ralph Macchio attended the 28th Annual Santa Barbara International Film Festival. And check out Karina's new hair style. Do you like? I liked it long more, but, she's looks cute with it short too. Be sure you see Getty Images as they have this picture in a bigger size and others.


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A Moment in Time
(originally posted in February 2010)
The Hacienda Hotel, Old Town, San Diego. A warm November night. Two friends and colleagues, their hair still in wind-blown disarray from a shoreline geology field trip of San Diego Bay on a boat, full and happy from margaritas and a wonderful Mexican dinner, are heading to their respective rooms.
So, your talk is right after lunch tomorrow?
Yep. The start of the second technical session.
And you have a Powerpoint presentation?
Nope.... Linda, I *know* this stuff. I can give this talk with just speaker's notes. I don't need a slideshow.
You need a slideshow. Come on, we can make one right now.
[sort of pouting] But I'm tired.
Come on, Alison....I'll bring the laptop out to the table in the courtyard in front of my room and we'll work on it outside. [wheedling] I have a bottle of wine....Let's see if these California reds are anything to write to you about.
'Write home about'.
Merci. 'Write home about'.
[sighing] OK.
Some night-blooming flowers are scenting the air. The fountain on the courtyard wall splashes softly in the background. A lot of laughing accompanies the work on the laptop. The wine is very, very good.
Thanks, Linda. The talk will be better with a slideshow.
No problem.
You know, I could get used to this.
Which, Alison? The working out of doors? Or the wine? [grins]
All of it. Seriously, this is the way to live. Very civilized. Could you imagine doing all our work outside, with a glass of wine? We'd either be super-productive, or very liver-damaged.
[laughing] We couldn't do this in Ottawa though. I don't know if you would get people to participate into meetings outside in November.
Probably not. Here. Fill me up. [giggles] Hey, let me take a photo of this: "Linda, working hard at her laptop."
You are too funny. Wait, let me hold the bottle up. For effect. [grins]
Linda Guay
Tu me manques, mon amie.
Tu me manques, mon amie.


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Republican Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour has refused to denounce a Southern heritage group's proposal for a state-issued license plate to honor Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was a founder and early leader of the Ku Klux Klan.
Barbour is the current chairman of the Republican Governors Association, former chairman of the Republican National Committee and considered a potential 2012 Republican presidential candidate.
Raw Story reports:
The idea, put forth by the white heritage group Sons of Confederate Veterans, would create a state-issued license plate by 2014 in honor of Confederate General and KKK leader Nathan Bedford Forrest. It would include a car tag and a series of other Civil War license plates.
Mississippi lawmakers are considering the proposal, and Barbour said it's unlikely to be approved but refused to stake out a position against it. The NAACP's Mississippi chapter president Derrick Johnson called on the governor to denounce it. The Southern Poverty Law Center has identified the Sons of Confederate Veterans as a "hate group" known for its racist and white supremacist activities.
More on Forrest from The Associated Press:
Forrest, a Tennessee native, is revered by some as a military genius and reviled by others for leading an 1864 massacre of black Union troops at Fort Pillow, Tenn. Forrest was a Klan grand wizard in Tennessee after the war. ..
[Mississippi NAACP president Derrick Johnson] said he's not bothered by Civil War commemorative license plates generally. But he said Mississippi shouldn't honor Forrest, who was an early leader of what he calls "a terrorist group." "He should be viewed in the same light that we view Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden," Johnson said of Forrest. "The state of Mississippi should deny any vanity tags which would highlight racial hatred in this state."
Johnson and the Mississippi NAACP president Derrick has called on Barbour to denounce the license plate idea. "I don't go around denouncing people," Barbour told The Associated Press.
During a December interview, Barbour praised the Council of Conservative Citizens—successor to the hateful segregationist White Citizens Councils of the 1950s and 1960s. Barbour later walked back the comments.
You May Have Missed ...
White Supremacists Urge Boycott of "Thor"


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The Miami Dolphins have apparently targeted the player they want to fill Jake Long's shoes at left tackle.
According to ESPN, the Dolphins are discussing a deal with the Kansas City Chiefs that will bring tackle Branden Albert to Miami.
Talks have progressed so far that Albert is expected to meet with Dolphins officials at the team's facility in the next few days.
Before any deal can be worked out, Albert must agree to a long-term contract with his new team. The 6-year offensive lineman out of Virginia signed a franchise tender worth almost $10 million with the Chiefs for 2013, but Albert has sat out Kansas City's voluntary workouts in hopes of negotiating a contract that will take him beyond next season.
ESPN's John Clayton writes that Miami would have to give up one of their two second-round picks in next week's NFL Draft to acquire Albert.
The Dolphins failed to resign Jake Long who went on to sign a free agent deal with the St. Louis Rams.


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text:
We oppose Islam, not Muslims. We are against hate, not faith
MesMorial wrote:Firstly "Skynightblaze"'s distinction between "Message" and "ayah" is itself without distinction. He predicts I will assert that it refers to previous scriptures, and indeed I will. However the point was never entire scriptures, but rather specific ayat which are not contextual.
MesMorial wrote: That is to say, many verses of the Qur'an are contextual and examples derived from the specific circumstances (e.g. 66:1-5). The Qur'an is a book of examples (17:89) and so this is not surprising.
MesMorial wrote:My point in saying this is that 16:101 refers to the abrogation of one scripture by another scripture, but not in the instance of Message (i.e. belief in One God etc.).
MesMorial wrote:The Qur'an does not replace entire scriptures but actually it confirms them.
MesMorial wrote: 16:101 refers to specific ayat in one scripture abrogating specific ayat in another scripture. An example:
"Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful."
"And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful."
The above is an exact example of what 16:101 is saying, and it demonstrates that the word "ayatan" in no way mandates the abrogation of the Qur'an by the Qur'an. 16:102 drives his claim to the edge of credibility, but because he has so far provided no proof we will save that for later and move to his "example of abrogation":
MesMorial wrote:"O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand."
This ayah implies that one Muslim will defeat ten opposing soldiers.
"For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient."
This is a silly example from "Skynightblaze" since the key words in 8:66 are "for the present". This is therefore not abrogation, but rather an attempt at demonstrating contradiction. When taken together, the verses say that the Prophet (SAW) should urge his followers to battle against the unbelievers of Sura 8, and that under normal circumstances they would inflict ten times the damage which they receive. However, at the present time of that ayah they are not fully "urged to war", and thus they will inflict only twice the damage which they receive. In short, the believers are not fully roused for battle and they are weak (relatively), thus Allah (SWT) has made their task easier (e.g. the enemy may not be attacking or may be weaker). Due to their not being fully roused for battle, they will not inflict as much damage on the enemy and so Allah (SWT) tells Muhammad (SAW) to motivate them."Skynightblaze" is back to square one. Or should we say, back to beginners' school.
MesMorial wrote:Realising the poor quality of his debate, "Skynightblaze" has posted another question before I could submit my response:
2:4 just confirms that the Qur'an confirms the Message of the previous scriptures. It is another method of expressing this idea:
MesMorial wrote: "Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit."
"Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people."
Obviously belief in the previous Messengers is a part of being Muslim, and a part of believing in the Messengers is belief in the Messages they brought…… Islam thus encompasses belief in other scriptures also.
Mesmorial wrote:Skynightblaze" attempts to stand up to me by saying he does not wish to listen to my personal opinions. If he is able to read he will realise I mentioned that he had no proof and thus I did not need to do more than point out his whole point is a personal opinion.
Mesmorial wrote: Where does the Qur'an say that 16:101 was referring to specific non-contextual ayat?? Firstly that is "Skynightblaze"'s own point (i.e. he tried to say I believed it referred to entire scriptures)! How can he ask for proof of something on which is own point relies?
Mesmorial wrote:Secondly we both agree it refers to specific ayat!
Mesmorial wrote:Thirdly they cannot possibly be contextual ayat because that is not abrogation but rather decision-making for specific circumstances. He tried to bring an example of contextual abrogation, but it fell flat and soon we will address the worm that won't die.
Mesmorial wrote:He agrees that the Qur'ans says it substitutes some ayat for others, and thus the debate is over. When something gets substituted, it is replaced. Therefore any "abrogated verse" in the Qur'an will not be in the Qur'an today.
Mesmorial wrote: Rather 16:101 is referring to ayat as part of one scripture replacing the scriptural authority of ayat from another scripture. At the same time we know that the Message is itself preserved, and thus what "Skynightblaze" deems as "irrelevant" is actually a courtesy for readers:
Mesmorial wrote:"And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say: You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know."
The substitution spoken of here is concerned with one of two possible things:
a) The substitution of a scripture in place of previous ones.
b) The substitution of an ayah or legislation within a scripture with another in a subsequent scripture.
e know that more than one scripture has been seen through history:
"And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed."
We also know that the second meaning is true. For example we are told in 2:187 that sexual intercourse between married couples during the nights of the fasting month was made lawful, while it was prohibited previously.
The evidence for this meaning is given within the same ayah (16:101):
"You are only a forger."
Now here we must stop and ask: who is likely to tell the Messenger "You are only a forger", and why? For sure it cannot be his followers (they would not say that). It has to be those who do not believe in him, i.e. the followers of previous scriptures who feared that their scripture was in danger of being "abrogated" by the Qur'an. Jews and Christians would not care if some verses of the Qur'an abrogated other verses of the Qur'an. The matter is laid to rest by 16:102 (placing it in context):
"Say: The Holy spirit has revealed it from your Lord with the truth, that it may establish those who believe and as a guidance and good news for those who submit."
Mesmorial wrote:What is the guidance and good news (2:97, 2,2:13, 2:119, 4:165, 5:21, 6:48, 7:188, 11:2, 12:96, 16:89, 17:8, 17:105, 18:2, 18:56, 19:97, 27:2, 33:45, 34:28, 35:24, 41:4, 42:23, 46:12, 48:8)? The Qur'an is the guidance and good news, and thus it is the components of the Qur'an abrogating components of other scriptures. It is a "new criterion":
"And there does not come to them a new reminder from the Beneficent Allah but they turn aside from it."
The fact that there are "new" reminders implies that abrogation is concerned with scriptures, not internal verses.
Mesmorial wrote:Finally, why is there not one instance in the Qur'an where Allah (SWT) actually specifies that abrogation is taking place?
Mesmorial wrote: Where in the ahadith did Muhammad (SAW) ever talk about abrogation?
Mesmorial wrote: I must quote this for everyone to see:skynightblaze wrote: " Secondly quran does talk about belief in 1 God but it opposes the claim of bible that Jesus was a God so quran does contradict the previous scriptures with regards to message of God. It agrees that GOd is 1 but there is a dispute over who that God is and this makes a huge difference! You cant therefore make statements like quran confirms previous scriptures.
Firstly we do not know which parts of the Bible are authentic and not innovative (well to the people who accept the Qur'an some are obviously obvious), and secondly the Qur'an nowhere confirms that the previous scriptures said such a thing. The argument is irrelevant and circular (and desperate):
"The Messiah, son of Marium was but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away."
Can "Skynightblaze" explain just how Jesus (SAW) was God at one point, and then in hindsight he was not?
Mesmorial wrote: He then questions how 16:101 can refer to 6:145 when they are so far apart, but he maintains that 16:101 is general and thus should include everything!
Mesmorial wrote: "Skynightblaze" says that he expected a stupid comment from me. It is surprising that he included the 8:65 example because as I said it was a stupid example to bring. He said he forgot to explain why it was not stupid, so let us see:He seems to interpret the verse as saying that one Muslim MUST kill ten non-Muslims and the next verse as saying that one Muslim MUST kill two non-Muslims. The verses do not convey that. It is talking about the ability of Muslims compared to non-Muslims, not about a killing quota!
The explanation of why his example is not stupid suddenly makes it look even stupider. This is priceless. I write these things to demonstrate the stupidity that makes the world what it is, and I think everyone can see that the complicated problems really have simple solutions.
Absolutely every translator of 8:65 has rendered "yaghlibu" as "will overcome", not "MUST overcome". Once again it is talking about the ABILITY of Muslims with Allah's (SWT) help, not a killing quota. When "Skynightblaze" goes back to school and learns English, he will see how "stupid" my "stupid comment" really is.I was tempted to write "hahahaha".
Mesmorial wrote:I thought that the 2:4 example was even better, but with his explanation I do not know anymore.
Let us have a class in basic logic:
"(This Book is a guide for those)...who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter."
So a Muslim is one who accepts all of the scriptures because they have the same Message (5:48, 35:42-43). Therefore Islam is comprised of belief in all scriptures.
"And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
Now since we know that Islam is comprised of belief in all scriptures, those who desire a religion other than Islam are obviously those who do not believe in all scriptures! "Skynightblaze" calls me dishonest, but if anyone is reading this can they please explain where the contradiction is between 2:4 and 3:85?
Mesmorial wrote:Skynightblaze" needs to re-read my last response and explain how abrogation can exist in the Qur'an when "substitute" means to replace, not override. The substitution of verses means that one verse would disappear and the other takes its place, making it impossible for abrogation to be present inside the Qur'an itself.
I said to 'Uthman bin 'Affan (while he was collecting the Qur'an) regarding the Verse:-- "Those of you who die and leave wives ..." (2.240) "This Verse was abrogated by an other Verse. So why should you write it? (Or leave it in the Qur'an)?" 'Uthman said. "O son of my brother! I will not shift anything of it from its place."
Mesmorial wrote: As I have explained, we are talking about the substitution of verses, not the laws of the verses. 16:101 does not talk about laws, which is what "Skynightblaze" wants to prove.
Mesmorial wrote:We know that the Qur'an contains the same Message, but it if a new scripture containing new laws (in cases) and thus new ayat carrying specific laws REPLACE old verses containing other laws. Moreover, scriptures themselves are composed of verses and so to bring new verses could well mean to bring complete scriptures (replacing the old). There is still no real evidence that 16:101 does not refer to entire scriptures (since scriptures are composed of verses). Thus "Skynightblaze"'s insistence on the "personal opinion" argument simply shows that he is not answering the issue.
Mesmorial wrote:He defends himself a little, suggesting that he is only here to save face. He claims again that 8:65 is an abrogated verse, but we will get to that. Why is it that the burden-of-proof is always on me? I have noticed that with Islamophobes. They cannot bring evidence so everyone else is guilty until proven innocent.
Mesmorial wrote:So we get to the pith and "Skynightblaze" (just like "Muhammad bin Lyin") must start using scholars to hold his case.
Mesmorial wrote:He asserts that the people who call Muhammad (SAW) a forger could be pagans. That is true, but just like the people who jeered when the qiblah was changed, it is because the Muslims are not following the rulings of previous scriptures. It makes no difference whether it is the People of the Book or pagans, because it is the replacement of scripture which in their eyes made Islam look incompatible and weak. Moreover, the pagans call him a forger when referring to their fathers' faith:
So you see, they expected Islam to be in conformity with the religions that already existed. Whenever the notion of "forgery" comes up, it is always in the context of people who already had their own ideas.
To answer fully "Skynightblaze"'s case, the fact that new Revelation is sent down would cause any disbeliever (regardless of their ideas) to say "You are a forger!", and thus it makes no difference. They might not believe in any of the previous scriptures either, but it actually makes no differences because it is a new Revelation replacing older ones regardless of what they believe.
Mesmorial wrote:A new Revelation was sent down – i.e, the Qur'an – and regardless of who 16:101-102 refers to, the context is indicating they are denying the scripture and the religion because it does not agree with their ideas, not because of an instance of "abrogation".
Mesmorial wrote: Why would they label Muhammad (SAW) a forger only after an "abrogating" verse, and not before? His only defence is that some people might say it after an "abrogating" verse brings a clear contradiction, but firstly "Skynightblaze" has brought no example and secondly he cannot explain how substituted and substituting verses can exist within the same scripture. That is to say, there is definitely no abrogation in the Qur'an of today. If "Skynightblaze" is so convinced of himself, can he explain why Allah (SWT) never announced individual instances of abrogation in the Qur'an?
Mesmorial wrote:"Do they not then meditate on the Qur'an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy."
Mesmorial wrote:We know that the new Revelation is the Revelation comprising the Qur'an, and because verses comprise scriptures, there is no reason why it cannot be referring to the gradual replacement of entire scriptures by the complete Qur'an. There is also good reason to believe that it refers to the substitution of one law-carrying ayah in one scripture with another law-carrying ayah in the new Reminder. It does not matter whether the accusers are People of the Book or pagans, because it is the inconsistency either in the eyes of "spectators"/People of the Book between previous scriptures and the new one, or the fact that a new reminder (21:2) has been given which so happens to replace whatever else Allah (SWT) revealed in the past.
I am unsure how "Skynightblaze" can possibly say that a "new Reminder" is only a "new Reminder" because it contradicts the beliefs of the pagans. If the pagans were not following a divine scripture then they cannot have had an old reminder unless it confirms my point that they were commentators on the incongruity between certain aspects of Islam, and prior scriptures.
Mesmorial wrote:The Qur'an is the truth and it is the best interpretation of both itself (12:111, 75:19) and existence. There are no other sources required for us to be Muslims. The Qur'an explains everything and it is better than any hadith.
Mesmorial wrote:Spoiler! :"Skynightblaze's" "evidence" is inadmissible and based upon sources other than what we are discussing. He has provided no proof that either Allah (SWT) or Muhammad (SAW) mandated abrogation, and I will address the "examples" raised by the ahadith:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 299
This has the prophet (SAW) praying for evil to befall others. It is useless since it says that the verse was cancelled and is no longer in the Qur'an. This proves my point. The Qur'an of today contains no example of abrogation even if I believed the hadith, and "Skynightblaze" must now decide what he means by "abrogation".
Mesmorial wrote:Spoiler! :To the next one:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 54
It claims there is a contradiction between the following two verses:
"Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is Allah's; and whether you manifest what is in yourselves or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it; then He will forgive whom He pleases and chastise whom He pleases, and Allah has power over all things."
"Allah does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability; for it is (the benefit of) what it has earned and upon it (the evil of) what it has wrought…"
2:284 says that our thoughts and/or intentions will be considered by Allah (SWT). This is no surprise because lying is a sin. Saying you are a Muslim when you do not believe is lying. If we read 2:283, the verse is actually referring to someone who conceals a testimony (or will). That is to say, if you deceive people, then whether you inform them or not you will be held to account. However, one must acknowledge the sin and try to correct it if one is to repent.
We are a product of our thoughts, and any negative or dirty thought will incline us to negative or dirty things. Just because we are angry it does not mean that violence becomes legal. Just because we think dirty thoughts does not mean we can fornicate:
"Recite that which has been revealed to you of the Book and keep up prayer; surely prayer keeps (one) away from indecency and evil, and certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest, and Allah knows what you do."
Though we will be inclined by our thoughts, our faith will call us to recognise what is right and to seek refuge from and thus forgiveness for them. See the rest of 2:286:
"…Our Lord! do not punish us if we forget or make a mistake; Our Lord! do not lay on us a burden as Thou didst lay on those before us, Our Lord do not impose upon us that which we have not the strength to bear; and pardon us and grant us protection and have mercy on us, Thou art our Patron, so help us against the unbelieving people."
We seek forgiveness for low thoughts by recognising that they are bad and banishing them (or else they will brood and lead us astray), and if we commit an actual error, then we must seek forgiveness.
In summary, 2:284 says we should not deceive people and if we have low thoughts then obviously we should banish them. 2:286 says that the actions (which are a result of bad thoughts/intentions) will be considered in judgement. The latter verse is simply a complement or clarification for those who misunderstand 2:284.
Mesmorial wrote:Skynightblaze wrote:"Btw this is a command for muslims and not a futuristic statement because the verse 8:66 says GOD HAS LIGHTENED YOUR TASK!! . Why would it say GOd has lightened your task if it was merely pointing to the ability of muslims to do something??
If he had bothered to look at what I wrote in Round 1 I would not have to repeat myself here. I said that Allah (SWT) had indeed lightened their task by either making sure the enemies did not attack or making the enemy weaker. If Allah (SWT) can give or take the strength of Muslims then he can do so to that of non-Muslims. I also explained that Allah (SWT) was urging Muhammad (SAW) to motivate the Muslims as once motivated they would have the ability to fight ten times their number. However, at that present moment they would only be able to handle twice their number. Due to the weakness or tiredness of the Muslims, Allah (SWT) made sure that the enemies would not attack or that they would be weaker than usual (or some such other thing).
"Skynightblaze" must explain how Allah's (SWT) lightening of their situation ("task" is not in the Arabic, if he reads) means the "ability to fight" becomes a "kill-quota".
Mesmorial wrote:He seems to quote-mine me. According to basic Islamic theology (something "Skynightblaze" has never researched) everything that conspires does so according to the will of Allah (SWT). Every success is with the leave of Allah (SWT), but the reason I refer to Allah (SWT) as "helping" the Muslims in 8:65 is that he is making sure that the Muslims (when restored to strength) will be able to tackle ten-times their number. I use the word "help" since the Muslims would prefer there to have victory above defeat. "Skynightblaze" is welcome to insert another word in the place of "help". Indeed, Allah (SWT) could have made sure that the Muslims could fight a million times their number (or more), but then there would be little point in testing people's belief because things would become too obvious, would they not?
Mesmorial wrote:
The average Islamophobe will never acknowledge its errors and will attempt to cover them up by ridiculing in any way possible. It is off topic and so I will not elaborate, but there is no contradiction for a Muslim. 5:75 clearly says that Jesus (SAW) was never God. According to my reading, there is no reason to say that the Bible of today is one of the unadulterated scriptures referred to in the Qur'an. "Skynightblaze" must kindly provide some arguments before spewing venom.
For personal interest, readers can browse this article:
http://www.mostmerciful.com/quran-does- ... s-true.htm
I agree that substitution means replacement and hence you are correct to say that if verses of quran were substituted by new ones then the old ones should disappear however my claim is that inspite of this being true we still have verses in the quran which were meant to be substituted along with the substituted verses . Now I have given an example of 8:65 and 8:66. My claim is 8:66 cancels 8:65 which proves abrogation. Ideally 8:66 substitutes 8:65 in law and and hence 8:65 shouldn't exist in the quran but yet it does. This is the problem of the compilers of quran . Here is ahadith from Sahih Bukhari which would explain what I am trying to say..
Anyway you may not believe in it. I brought the ahadith to tell you my position.Its just for you to understand what I am saying. The problem lies with quran because it included abrogated verses which were meant to be substituted. This is another verse..
Allah abolishes, and confirms, what He wants! He has the real authority.
This verse talks about cancellation which would further support my case of 8:66 nullifying 8:65.
Verses contain laws and hence substitution of verses would mean substitution of laws. It's that simple.AS I said Muhammad or compilers of quran were stupid enough to keep verses in the quran even after their abrogation. 8:65 was abrogated by 8:66 and yet its present in the quran so until I am done with that issue you cant say verses cannot be present in the quran when abrogated.
I don't understand, what are you trying to say here? I said I just guessed that you were talking about quran replacing the entire scripture because that's the favorite muslim argument. I don't believe that the verse in question is talking about entire scriptures.
Its common sense that burden of proof lies on you because you are trying to exclude quran from that verse but then why quran should be excluded hasn't been explained by you. It's a generalized verse which says we substitute revelation/verses with the other. Since its not mentioned here specifically as to which scripture quran is talking about it's a generalized verse which would be applicable to every single scripture that Allah has revealed and hence it should include quran too . Nevertheless I should also bring proof to make a case and hence I brought 8:66 example.
Excuse me I didn't use a tafsir to make a case. I even said that since you don't believe in tafsir lets put that out of the equation. I brought a tafsir to show that I am not pulling things out of my arse. Tafsirs back me but I didn't use them in the debate to force a conclusion. I said you don't have a strong case since it could well be referring to pagans.Anyway I have excluded your comments on tafsirs here to avoid unnecessary debate. I can only say one thing that you seem to selectively pick up. If you trust Ibn Hanbal then you should also trust his works but sadly you dont because you are a hypocrite.
I have skipped the verses you brought for sake of reducing length. Anyway so the point that you want to convey here is that it doesn't matter whether it's talking about pagans or Christians or jews as it would simply be pointing to the beliefs of pagans rather than abrogation of its own scripture.
16:101 isn't talking about BELIEFS OF PAGANS. It uses the word "verses/signs" and not BELIEFS (I made a mistake in assuming this). Now if the word "verses" is used then it talking about a scripture and not a belief. Do you see where I am going with this? Now as far as my knowledge pre Islamic pagans never had any scripture so the fact is that 16:101 can't be talking about beliefs of pagans but of some verses which form a part of the scripture. That scripture obviously can be the quran because it would make sense for pagans to accuse Muhammad of forgery when they saw him substituting one verse for the other but however since I cant prove that this verse is indeed talking about pagans then we need to look at the quran alone.All I am saying is this is a possibility and hence you cant make a solid case that its talking only about jews and Christians alone.
I repeat the verse is a generalized verse. It talks about revelations or verses which Allah reveals which will include therefore by default quran also along with other scriptures. There is no good reason as to why quran is excluded from that verse. Anyway my example of 8:66 abrogating 8:65 will demonstrate that quran does indeed abrogate itself and will serve as a backing to 16:101.One more thing I did make a mistake about 16:102 which I have explained below..
I have answered this above. Quran talks about verses and not beliefs and hence it necessarily refers to some scripture which can be very well quran. Now lets see what you wrote in continuation..
I have brought an example which is yet in the process of reaching a final conclusion. Once we settle the issue of 8:65 and 66 then you make comments like I have brought no example. Secondly its possible that pagans would label Muhammad as a forger when they saw his substituting one verse from the quran with other. That would explain why they called him a forger.
Lastly you claim that I don't explain as to how substituted and substituting verses can exist in the same scripture. I explained that above.IT only shows the the compilers of quran were fools who kept the abrogated verses as they are even after receiving new revelations were received by muhammad .If you consult sources other than quran you can see that the meccan verses were abrogated by medinan verses and yet both are present in the quran. So my job is to show the existence of substituted verse and and its substituting exist at the same time in the quran. How they make sense is the question that you should ask yourself because you believe in such a book.
Well I find a lot of discrepancy in the quran so are you telling me that If I find discrepancies in the quran I can claim quran abrogates itself? I can show 'n' number of internal contradictions in the quran.
to be continued...
Actually I made a mistake in interpreting 16:102 and I do acknowledge it. Here is the verse…
Say, "The Holy Spirit (Angel Gibra'eel) brings the absolute truth from your Lord, in order to consolidate those who believe. It is the guidance and the glad tiding for the obedient."
The verse says that Holy spirit brings the truth to those who believe. Certainly pagans were not among the people who believed in islam and hence this verse can't be talking about a reminder to pagans about their belief but nevertheless it doesn't disprove the fact that this verse could have been addressed to pagans and not jews and Christians. Now how does this make sense? I have explained that above.
You are certainly a dishonest person. In the other thread you used sources other than quran to talk about wives of the prophet and here you are claiming that quran is better than any ahadith and it explains EVERYTHING. If quran explains everything then why the hell did you require other sources?
Well my dear friend do you understand the implications of what you are saying? What you said means that Allah abrogated the verses which he issued before . AT the max it would mean quran doesn't contain them but it still exposes the fact that an all knowing God shouldn't is required to cancel the verses in the quran.Since we see that Allah didn't get the verses right in the first place we can safely conclude that quran is not the word of God.I am surprised you even bothered to write such things here. It only exposes your fraud god Allah.
You simply didnt understand as to why this verse was abrogated.
Read this for understanding why the verse was abrogated..
The summary is the companions of muhammad were afraid that they cant control what comes to their heart and hence they would be punished as per 2:284 while 2:286 abrogated 2:284 by saying that Allah punishes for your acts and not what comes to your mind and that's why this is an abrogation. Read the tafsir for details.
Ok let me explain how lightened their situation means kill quota. Now we have 2 cases:
1) Either Allah reduced the target of muslims from 10 to 2 therby lightened the burden of muslims(my claim)
2) Allah weakened the disbelievers and thereby relieved the muslims of the burden (your claim)
Now all I have to do is prove that case 2 cannot be the possibility which would mean case 1 is the correct answer.
With the decrease in strength of the enemy 1 muslim should be able to attain full strength or more than full strength i.e 1 muslim should be able to kill now more than 10 or at-least 10. How in the world can the ability of the muslims reduce with the decrease in strength of the enemy??
First of all , if Allah weakened the enemies of muslims then the muslims should be gaining full strength of what was proposed i.e. 1 muslim killing 10 disbelievers. There is a fundamental problem with the argument that Allah could have made the enemy weak. I showed you above. Secondly why would an all knowing God take a test? Tests are taken to determine something that is unknown and not to know something which is already known. Allah being all knowing God doesn't need to take tests so the question is very much valid as to why Allah himself didn't destroy the enemy or make 1 muslim fight millions of non muslims. Weak muslim army shouldn't be a barrier to anyone when an all powerful God is on their side.
So finally we are back to my example . 8:66 was a command and not just mention of an ability and hence I am correct in claiming that 8:66 abrogates 8:65.
You simply don't understand what people say. Your book tells you to believe in the previous scriptures which means its endorses their content.i.e quran is endorsing the fact for e.g that jesus was the son of God but at the same time it says in its scripture that he wasn't. Quran contradicts itself hopelessly in that case. Now I had a discussion with Ygalg regarding mention of Jesus as God in the bible. HE claims that there is a dispute amongst christians about this..I trust him and to add more to it I am unfamiliar with previous scriptures so I would take this a a feed back from Ygalg and change my argument that Jesus was the son of God as per quran but not as per bible.Now the crux of my argument is your book contradicts the previous scriptures.
Secondly you claim " There is no reason as to why bible of today in unadulterated" Then similarly why cant it be the other way i.e quran is adulterated today?
Lastly assuming that bible of today is corrupted you must show us the uncorrupted versions of bible. You may ask why I am asking you to show them to me? They are required because your quran says we came to confirm the previous scriptures so anyone who wishes to verify this claim of quran needs the unadulterated copies of bible. So where are they? 6:92 of quran also asks the believers of quran to verify the previous scriptures and then warn the the mother of all towns but to warn then they need previous scriptures so that they can confirm with quran and then warn others so show us where are the uncorrupted versions of previous scriptures or else accept that quran is in error here.
MesMorial wrote:Could you tell me which verse abrogates 2:240? I am curious. If it is 2:234, interesting how a prior verse abrogates a later! It is sad for the world when it cannot be seen that 2:234 never says that women have to stay in the home for 4 months. It simply states they cannot be married for 4 months. Of course they may prefer to stay in the hourse during the "waiting period", and that is a "given". 2:240 says they should get a year's maintenance and should not be turned out (though they can travel as they wish). No contradiction.
Ibn Abu Hatim also related that `Ali bin Abu Talhah stated that Ibn `Abbas said, "When a man died and left behind a widow, she used to remain in his house for a year for her `Iddah, all the while receiving her provisions during this time. Thereafter, Allah revealed this Ayah:
(And those of you who die and leave wives behind them, they (the wives) shall wait (as regards their marriage) for four months and ten days.) (2:234)
So, this is the `Iddah of the widow, unless she was pregnant, for her `Iddah then ends when she gives birth. Allah also said:
MesMorial wrote: [013:039]
Allah abolishes, and confirms, what He wants! He has the real authority.
This verse talks about cancellation which would further support my case of 8:66 nullifying 8:65 "Allah makes to pass away and establishes what He pleases, and with Him is the basis of the Book."
Examine it in its context:
"And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector. And certainly We sent Messengers before you and gave them wives and children, and it is not in (the power of) a Messenger to bring a sign except by Allah's permission; for every term there is an appointment. Allah makes to pass away and establishes what He pleases, and with Him is the basis of the Book."
It states that Allah (SWT) establishes what He pleases, and with him is the mother/source/backbone of the Book. Allah (SWT) writes the Book (the Qur'an) and blots out what He wishes (of the previous Messengers' Messages (13:38)). The word is "eliminate" or "blot out", thus it does not refer to a verse that remains in the Qur'an. If the Qur'an is a true judgement (13:37), how then could it be decisive if some verses abrogated others? Furthermore, how can the "basis of the Book" (3:7, 13:39) be a basis if it changes within itself?
MesMorial wrote:"…it is not in (the power of) ANY messenger to bring a sign except by Allah's permission; FOR EVERY TERM THERE IS AN APPOINTMENT."
It is referencing every scripture ("any Messenger"), and not just the Qur'an. If it refers to any scripture then why would it be talking about individual verses (laws) within scriptures that are no longer relevant (in and of themselves since the Qur'an has since them been revealed)? It is not logical since Muslims would not care about "abrogation" in the Bible and nor would Christians care about it in the Qur'an. Allah (SWT) is making a valid point that He establishes things for appointed terms (e.g. see 30:8), and that He has always done this. There is no relevance to individual Qur'anic verses abrogating Qur'anic verses (i.e. things inside one term abrogating things within that same term). Finally, it does not refer specifically to ayat but to things (including signs) in general.
MesMorial wrote:I explained the example. You misinterpreted it in the first 3 rounds and you have not corrected yourself in this epilogue. See my last comment about the pagans. No proof they are pagans and if they are, no proof they are not commenting for reasons I specified.
MesMorial wrote:When you use conjecture to attack Qur'an and ask me to prove, then I can bring the like. If you use the Qur'an to attack the Qur'an, you get nowhere because it is all based on possibility. That is to say if we use Qur'an alone then I always win because Qur'an says Muhammad (SAW) was good person. I did not say the Qur'an explains everything. It explains everything for guideance (2:159, 16:89, 45:6). You put dishonest words in my mouth and call me dishonest.
MesMorial wrote:You simply didnt understand as to why this verse was abrogated.
Read this for understanding why the verse was abrogated..
The summary is the companions of muhammad were afraid that they cant control what comes to their heart and hence they would be punished as per 2:284 while 2:286 abrogated 2:284 by saying that Allah punishes for your acts and not what comes to your mind and that's why this is an abrogation. Read the tafsir for details.
If you replace the word "clarification" for "abrogation" then of course you are right. It does not make it abrogation though. I explained why 2:286 is compatible with and a clarification of 2:284. It is you who does not understand my explanation, and refuses to. I cannot argue against blindness.
MesMorial wrote:If any of your argument in this debate were to start holding water, it would be now because you attempt to explain your core at last. Nevertheless, it is an overlarge red herring. You claim case 1 which is not supported by the language of the Qur'an. Thus is it is false. You say that Allah (SWT) never said he made the disbelievers weak, but that is a red herring because it does not matter as making the disbelievers weak is one of many ways. E.g. if the Muslims were tired, so too would be the non-Muslims. First of the three main paragraphs is irrelevant.
MesMorial wrote:With the decrease in strength of the enemy 1 muslim should be able to attain full strength or more than full strength i.e 1 muslim should be able to kill now more than 10 or at-least 10. How in the world can the ability of the muslims reduce with the decrease in strength of the enemy??
Red herring. If the Muslims were outnumbered then they would be more tired than the non-Muslims. Hence they could not kill as many non-Muslims if they had to. You assume there is a proportional relationship between the strength of the two sides, but that 2-D assumption is without base. 8:9, 8:42-44 show that the Muslims were outnumbered. The rest of your rebuttal is therefore worthless. You ask why Allah (SWT) "made those specific adjustments". Allah (SWT) does what he wants and does not place a burden on believers (whom are tested) beyond what they can take (2:286 etc.). You should know that.
MesMorial wrote:You repeated the argument I just debunked. You raise the test again. Your supposedly intellectual rebuttal relies on an underhand tactic which could be presented to anyone of any faith. Allah (SWT) knows what people will do, but He created Man so that Man might have the opportunity to avail himself of His reward (being with/getting close to God). Allah (SWT) allows Man freewill, but he knows what choices they will take. This is their own doing, but everything that Allah (SWT) allows to happen is said to be by His will (since he has power over everything).
MesMorial wrote:I am glad that after a long discussion you agree that the Qur'an says what it says. It would have been easier if you just studied my response. You have to prove that the previous scriptures in the Qur'an are the "Bible" and "Torah" of today. They were not preserved at least from the time of the Qur'an.
MesMorial wrote:Secondly you claim " There is no reason as to why bible of today in unadulterated" Then similarly why cant it be the other way i.e quran is adulterated today?
Off topic again.
MesMorial wrote:Another red herring. Qur'an never says the scriptures were preserved. It accuses Jews of rewriting the Book whilst sometimes asking believers to confirm with them. This does not mean the books of today are spick and span.
MesMorial wrote:Finally, what Ibn Umar said is not relevant because it was Bukhari who wrote it 200 years later. Secondly if Umar got the idea of internal abrogation from somewhere it does not make it a divine saying. Does it say "abrogation" in Arabic? What did Umar mean by it? Why would Allah (SWT) change His mind TO ACCOMMODATE humans? Ahadith are not-verbatim and to expect me to accept such arguments is dishonest. You have provided no evidence of internal abrogation, and you have had a long time.
Mesmorial wrote:It makes no sense to be talking about verses in the Qur'an because the body of the new Revelations is Arabic (16:103). The Qur'an distinguishes the Arabic of the Qur'an from the source which they think it is coming from. I.e., the Qur'an is distinguishing the entire Qur'an from anther source which they allude to. Why would they allude to another source unless there was something about the Qur'an that made them think about it? We know it is not the Qur'an's message that makes them think about this (unless it were referring to the Qur'an replacing other scriptures as a whole or bit by bit - and what else would it be?) because they only start thinking when a "new ayah" is revealed. Unless SKB wants to say that the unbelievers here only suspect someone of teaching him when abrogation occurs and not when it is normally being revealed (in which case he must explain exactly why abrogation points them to that source), he must conclude that the new revelation is the revelation of the Qur'an as a whole, replacing old scriptures verse by verse or scripture by scripture
I am not going to reply to every argument of yours as I think I have said what I wanted to on 16:101.16:101 is a generalized verse and hence by default it will include quran but I must provide examples and hence I will provide them. All I have to do is show you the contradictions and you lose the case . if you refuse to accept abrogation then its internal contradiction so chose either of them . The outcome is always going to be the same i,e quran is not from any God.
You would claim that this is a fine argument and I ignored because I couldnt answer you. So I would reply to this You are asking perhaps as to why the people were alluding to a source other than quran ? You have this verse in mind I suppose.
We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
You hereby conclude that this must be talking of previous scriptures.Quran is refuting here the charges made against it .The first charge is seen in 16:101 and now this is a new charge made by disbelievers.This new charge is talking about language and not the scripture itself and hence it cant be alluding to previous scripture. The disbelievers are claiming that muhammad learns something from some foreign personality(not scripture) and is parroting the same in the quran. This is no reference to a scripture as you badly want to believe it. AS far as I understand 16:101 is one charge and the other charge against quran is muhammad is parroting whatever he learns from some foreign guy.These are 2 separate charges and have no interconnection.
Now quran refutes them by saying that the man doesn't speak arabic but he speaks some foreign language so how could quran be parroting what the man teaches muhammad?
Btw its not true that disbelievers accused muhammad only when new ayah came.16:103 is totally altogether a separate charge made by disbelievers. Quran doesnt say that when we substitute one verse with the other the disbelivers claim "some foreign guy teaches muhammad" otherwise you would have a point.
Frankly speaking the 16:101 -103 are too vague to draw any specific conclusion and hence by default they include everything or else you need to accept that your book is not clear( another reason for not being from God.)
If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days: When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And God is well acquainted with what ye do.
The verse 2:239 says there is no blame on the husband's family if the widows dispose themselves in a just manner after 4 months so the negation would mean that there will be blame of husband's famiy if they(the wives) do to themselves anything before 4 months. Why do you think the husband's family would be blamed if the women did whatever they want before 4 months? Doesn't that mean the family has to care of women for 4 months and after that they are free? So husband's family is free after 4 months according to 2:234 while 2:240 says husband's family isn't free till 12 months.
So here lies the contradiction.
Those of you who die and leave widows should bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence; but if they leave (The residence), there is no blame on you for what they do with themselves, provided it is reasonable. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.
Now as far order of the verses is concerned if you are cross questioning the tafsirs or ahadith then you need to see what they said about the order. They claim that 2:234 was revealed after 2:240. The verses of quran are not properly organized in that case. This is possible because quran was finally compiled by humans.
Its you who believe quran is the basis of book. I as a disbeliever know that your quran is a piece of sh!t. These arguments will work with those who believe. Of course I also don't believe it's a decisive book but rather a word of illiterate desert thug who had absolutely no connection with wisdom .Every liar makes tall claims that he is the most reliable person but he isn't so as I dont consider quran to be authentic and hence these questions wont convince me. If quran was a fraud then its very much possible that there is abrogation inspite of it calling itself basis of book and all crap.
???? Can you explain what you said above again. ITs not clear to me at all.
It doesn't matter which people are referred. One thing is clear that it makes no mention of any scripture and hence by default it means all the scriptures of Allah and not just Torah and the bible. I am not going to repeat myself again and that's why I have ignored your previous arguments because I think I have said enough on the issue of 16:101. You tried some arguments to explain how 16:101 talks about previous scripture in your last posts but I didnt find them convincing . I dont think they were worth responding so I leave for others to decide.Btw just above you said that pagans would not be interested in commenting over bible or vice versa. In short what you said contradicts what you said here.
Muhammad was a thief. Its proven using the quran but oh yes I forgot if someone distributes wealth among his family members by taking non muslims property he doesn't become a thief.. Yes I also agree that if Muhammad was a criminal then he would have said so in the quran and since he didnt say in the quran he musn't be a criminal. Its common sense that no criminal would sing bad things about in a book which he himself writes.
Now if you can use sources other than quran to find about wives of muhammad i.e not for guidance then why cant anyone dig in sources other than quran understand the character of muhammad? Certainly they are not referring to those sources for guidance. Your hypocrisy has no bounds.
I think this is going to be my last reply for this argument as well because I don't see a point in carrying out conversation with a person who simply wont accept anything other than what he believes.
Are you punished for your thoughts or are you punished for the actual actions? There was a debate over this. 2:284 says Allah will punish even for bad thoughts. 2:286 says you will be punished for actions and not bad thoughts. There is the contradiction. People cant control what comes to their mind or heart but however one can control his/her actions and this is what the companions of muhammad said to him and hence the abrogation. This is one more example of abrogation or else its simply a contradiction thereby proving quran cannot be a word of God. Bear in mind this is my 2nd example of abrogation in the quran. Forget about tafsirs I am using quran here to make a case out of 2:284 and 286.. If there was no abrogation then there is contradiction and hence quran cannot be a word of God.Period!
Finally even if we accept your argument that its clarification and not abrogation you still lose. This means that quran was not written perfectly in the first place and hence the need to clarify which means author of quran is not God.
Red herring means deviating from the point. You said Allah could have weakened the disbelievers. Now telling you that quran doesn't say so you is red herring?
You simply don't understand a simple fact that tiredness of muslims cannot be the excuse. The inequality or disparity that existed between non muslims and muslims because of numbers shouldn't matter when Allah is on muslim side and especially when he is helping muslims. If Allah really helped then the muslims should be able to achieve full strength /ability or else its stupid to say Allah helped them.What good is Allah's help if its making the muslims underperform rather than making helping the muslims to fight to their potential best? Enough of crap now . This is my last reply to you regarding this.
Again the effect of being outnumbered should be nullified in case Allah is helping. When Allah helps muslims how in the world can the ability of the muslims reduce from 10 to 2? Allah is making adjustments to disbelievers and hence no excuse is valid.
If even inspite of Allah's help muslims cant reach their full potential it means Allah is a useless God. He isn't any all powerful God. In short you have shot yourself in foot by making this argument.
regarding this.
Quran on plenty of occasions says that Allah tests to find out who is good and who isn't. It doesn't say it tests men so that men would know earn their rewards so you a re making an rubbish attempt . We will preserve that topic for later so for the time being I am ignoring this topic but however it doesn't answer as to why how abilities of muslims will reduce if Allah is helping them.
This no way answers my question. If you claim bible and torah are corrupted how is anyone supposed to see whether they confirm quran or not? 6:92 says that quran came to confirm previous scriptures so that people can warn mother of cities.Now before muslims warn the mother of cities they should confirm quran with the previous scriptures.How can muslims warn without confirming quran with the previous scriptures? Now if bible and Torah are corrupted today how is anyone supposed to verify what quran is asking them to do ? You need to have copies of uncorrupted bible and torah or else you cant verify and hence it renders a problem to quranic verses.
Please solve that issue . I repeat how in the world are we supposed to confirm quran by looking at previous scriptures especially when we dont have the uncorrupted copies of bible and torah?
You claimed there is no reason as to why anyone should consider bible as uncorrupted. Now either of the scripture is corrupted I,e quran or bible because they contradict each other. Why cant anyone consider the possibility that quran is corrupted? This isn't offtopic because you claimed that those books are corrupted and I merely told you the other possibility.
That is not the question I asked. How can we confirm what quran says unless we have the uncorrupt bible and torah? Quran asks the believers to do that. So the claim of quran is invalid in that case and hence quran cant be the word of God.
The ahadith clearly mentions the word Abrogate. Stop playing games here now.I guess Umar knew better than you because he was the one who spend time with muhammad.You are never going to accept any evidence presented to you. 8:66 is one of them and the other one is 2:284 and 2:286, 2:234&2:240. Now I don't need ahadith to show you the contradiction. These verses contradict each other and hence if you claim there is no abrogation then you have to accept a contradiction. Either ways quran cant be a word of God.
Mesmorial wrote:Firstly it is not a new charge. It refers to the same people. It is talking about how the Qur'an cannot be from the source they say because the language is different.
Mesmorial wrote: It would make no sense for people to claim "forger" based on abrogation because the language is different, and thus it must be the nature of the message that leads them to point to the source (saying it is parroted from someone is the same as saying "forger!"!).
Mesmorial wrote:Abrogation has nothing to do with the actual Message itself. SKB says they accuse him of parroting something from another source. That is true, but it is the fact that what he allegedly parrots is different that makes them do it. Regardless of whether they are "separate charges", it is quite clear that they are disbelieving in the whole thing and not just verses which abrogate. SKB cannot claim that Muhammad (SAW) is only able to speak Arabic because someone taught him!
Mesmorial wrote:The same disbelievers in these verses only begin to disbelieve when "abrogation" occurs (according to SKB and tafsirs) but 16:103 shows they are disbelieving the whole thing. If they already disbelieved before "abrogation" then it is not establishing those who believe! The Qur'an establishes who believes, not abrogation!
Mesmorial wrote:The Qur'an DOES say it can be used to confirm by asking those who were given the Book! That was for that time! Some people still followed the Message (3:199). It does not mean they are preserved today! You are asking that if the paperbacks called Bible and Torah today are not authentic, how could they be used to confirm the Qur'an at the time! That is ignoring 1400 years as well as the fact the Qur'an never said they were preserved at the time. SKB says that if we assume the Bible is corrupt, then we can never confirm the Qur'an. That is not relevant to the debate but is another squiggly complaint. If we cannot "confirm" with other scriptures then we look at the arguments of the Qur'an itself, which is what the Qur'an says to do a million times.
Mesmorial wrote: That is to say, we look at the Qur'an and not just the Qur'an! E.g. if there are any actual errors that can be verified, then I have not seen them. The basic Message of one God is the same, and that is the point (35:42-43). The Qur'an is enough to make one believe:
"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and in their own souls, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth."
We simply go with the best evidence. The criterion for believing the Qur'an is not just confirming with previous scriptures. It was simply one way which may not be feasible today. If it is the only criterion, SKB will solve the problem and bring the verse.
Mesmorial wrote:8:66 no example. You failed to prove. 2:286 no example, you failed to prove. 2:234 no example as we saw.
Mesmorial wrote:You can provide no evidence where Allah (SWT) OR Muhammad (SAW) mentioned abrogation, so you had best take your claims elsewhere. Umar was no divine and had trouble interpreting some words. Also hadith written by Bukhari not Umar.
Mesmorial wrote:2:184 is considered by Ibn 'Umar as having been abrogated while Ibn 'Abbas says it was not (Bu.); 2:240 was abrogated according to Ibn Zubair while Mujahid says it was not.
I think readers can see we need not continue.
Mesmorial wrote:Firstly it is 2:234 and not 2:239. There is no contradiction because we know that 2:234 hints that family should not turn them out before four months at least. It seems that the family has to look after them, and this does not necessarily mean keep them in the house anyway. It just means accommodate such that if the person left it would be "disposing of themselves".
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