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Word Lists and Tags
In yesterday's post and in another recent post, I talked about how you can use a list of words separated by commas and enclosed in parentheses to search for any of the words in that list. For example, entering (faith, hope, love) will find every occurrence of any of those words. The results are the same as you would get with an OR search such as faith <OR> hope <OR> love). Yet as I've explained in those other posts, a parenthesized word list has the advantage of acting as a single search term in a more complex search. Yesterday I showed how such a word list could be used as part of a phrase. Today I want to show how you can constrain such a word list using a grammatical tag.
Let's say I want to look for a series of words in the Greek New Testament which have to do with seeing or hearing. I could enter it as a word list, (ακουω, οραω, βλεπω), or as an OR search, ακουω <OR> οραω <OR> βλεπω. Both searches will find every occurrence of those Greek words.
But what if I'm really interested in finding these words when they're used as commands? I want to find where someone is commanded to "hear," to "see," or to "look."
If I've entered the search as a word list, all I need to do is add a grammatical tag after it, like this: (ακουω, οραω, βλεπω)@ [VERB imperative]. If I had created the search as a series of OR commands, I would have to add the imperative tag after each of the three words, like this: ακουω@ [VERB imperative] <OR> οραω@ [VERB imperative] <OR> βλεπω@ [VERB imperative].
Once again, either approach will work, but the word list is much more concise. Not only does it require less effort to enter, it is also much easier to follow without getting confused. That becomes especially important when you want to add additional criteria to your search.


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A gift from The Fruit Tree™ is a gift from the lush, fertile orchards of California and Oregon. Our fresh fruit assortment includes 5 crunchy Braeburn apples, 4 juicy Comice pears and 5 ripe-from-the-tree navel oranges. Measures 4"H x 13"W x 18"L
Measures 4"H x 13"W x 18"L
Would you like to ship each item to a different recipient or ship all items to one recipient ?
Ship to multiple recipients > - or - Ship to one recipient >

subset: commoncrawl


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Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by guitarsong, Jan 3, 2013.
You got the guitar. This guy got all of us and you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This thread is sick!
You guys are Fing terrible. What a sick, SICK bunch of instruments.
Wow! Some of these guitars are sick! Amazing. I have a 25th SAS on its way but of course it's not like some of these guitars!
SE EG, with some mods
I love NFs. Like I've been saying since day one though, I PERSONALLY still find the covered 57/08 is a poor match to the NFs in the Studio model. I switched the 57/08 to a Duncan CC RIGHT away now it's a balanced and killer axe. Even the split coil sounds great and keeps-up to the NFs.
Judging from this thread, a LOT of Studio owners also dumped the covered 57/08 in the Studio.
It's too bad PRS didnt address this issue right away. I thought from the beginning and I still think that it is probably one of the main reason for the Studio's dismal sales numbers.
I have a prediction. The Studio will soon be discontinued.
It's too bad. It's my favorite PRS. Great body, great ergonomics, has the AWESOME NFs, I love it's looks...but..as long as it comes with the covered 57/08..most people will never get to appreciate the Studio.
With some of the current models it's the PRS pups that are propelling them into Gem status. Unfortunately, with the Studio, the poor pick-up choice is hurting.
Of course YMMV but this thread and the Studio's eminent demise seem to tell a story. We know it isnt because of the Studio's shape, size, color, NF pickups or even the blade switch. WHAT do you suppose is killing it?
Hey...hopefully I'm all wrong and people LOVE the Studio and it's covered 57/08 and they are going to fly off the shelves and everyone who buys one will leave the stock pup configuration. We can debate and disagree but sales don't lie. I guess the truth will reveal itself one way or another.
Hi I am a newbie to this forum. I mainly joined the forum 'cause I wanted to agree with what blaren has written here and elsewhere in regard to the Studio model.
I gig minimum 4 nights a week since 1997.
I have a Strat Plus 1988; Telecaster American Standard 1999; Gibson Les Paul Studio 2011; G&L Comanche 2011; Reverend Sensei 290. And a 2011 PRS Studio.
I can take any of these guitars out and get what I want out of them over a 4 hour gig ranging from country, jazz to ACDC style rock
. After six months of trying I am about to give up on the PRS studio. I may try swapping out the covered 57/08 as blaren has done and the Duncan CC does read and sound like a good choice. Where I differ is I don't think I even like the narrowfields. The guitar is beautifully built and super comfortable to play but when I can turn up to a gig with the PRS and within half an hour want to switch to anything else I might have brought (including the Reverend that I picked up for $500) it's crazy.
Anyway it gave me heart to see I wasn't the only one pulling out the rest of my hair, so thanks for that Blaren.
I'd give an uncovered 59/09 a shot, I think it's a great match for the Narrowfields, and gives diversity and flexibility to the guitar. The squabbins match the NFs perfectly aesthetically too!
Yeah baby!
My goto guitar:
NF3 (now at the PTC):
My old Studio:
One of the best I have ever played.....
(Stupidly) Gone, but not forgotten.
And yes, this thread is full of sickness. WOW!!!
Might as well add my other one to level out the curve!


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To clarify, you are plugging your NAS and server into the router and your endpoints into your switch, which have the fiber in between? How would you rate the magnitude of the change vs upgrading roon server platform, endpoint platform, or USB cables? Just too many variables to say?
Electrically Isolate Your Networked Audio
The idea, implementation, and improvement are all simple; use two fiber media converters between all your noisy network stuff like routers, NAS, and server (I use the sonicTransporter running Roon Core), and your audio stuff. This way, all that electrical noise from the noisy stuff cannot get into your audio stuff because they are separated by a length of fiber optic cable which does not transmit electrical noise.1
Here's what my network side of this picture looks like, right up to the switch that serves my microRendu and any other network-enabled device I have here for review:
And here's the shopping list:
- ASUS (RT-AC68U) Wireless-AC1900 Dual-Band Gigabit Router ($158.25)
- 2x Cat 6 Ethernet cable (I use AudioQuest RJ/E Forest (0.75m $38.75/ea.)
- 2x TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter, 1000Mbps RJ45 to 1000M multi-mode SC fiber, up to 550m/1800ft, chassis mountable ($45.55/each)
- Tripp Lite Duplex Multimode 62.5/125 Fiber Patch Cable (SC/SC), 2M (6-ft.)(N306-006) ($16.99)
- NETGEAR ProSAFE GS108 8-Port Gigabit Desktop Switch (GS108-400NAS) ($39.00)
The Media Converters are powered devices so you'll need to plug them in.
- Connect Ethernet cable to Router and Media Converter 1
- Connect Fiber Patch Cable from Media Converter 1 to Media Converter 2
- Connect Ethernet cable from Media Converter 2 to the Ethernet Switch
The Sound Of Less Noise
Electrical noise sources are like opinions, everybody has one (OK, more than one). How many will depend on your setup and how much noise they introduce into your networked audio depends on damn near everything that's connected to your network and even things aren't. All this to say, your mileage may—OK it most likely will—vary when dealing with noise.
In my network and in my hi-fi, adding the TP-Link Media Converters and Fiber in between my router and switch improved the sound of my hi-fi. These improvements included an immediately recognizable lower noise floor as evidenced by an increase in perceived loudness, greater clarity across the board, and a larger and more focused sound image. In other words, all good.
I could go on talking about specific bits of specific recordings and how they changed but that's all really beside the point since these changes are not recording-specific: They are changes in the presentation of networked my hi-fi system.
A $108.09 Improvement
If you have a networked hi-fi system, I'd recommend trying this out for yourself. I purchased all the above gear from Amazon, so it can be returned for free (we're Premium Members). If you hear what I hear, you'll throw away the boxes, too.
1. see Optical Fiber Communications, Gerd Keiser, John Wiley & Sons (2003)
I am currently building a raspberry pi endpoint. My server is just a standard PC, nothing special other than being quick. I wanted windows so that I could run HQA and add parametric EQ filters. NAS is QNAP 251+. I have read with some interest your results on dedicated endpoint/server boxes and am trying to weigh the relative results of additional expenditures. :) Thanks for the great work on the site. Loving the reviews and the Lovely Recordings articles.
is the TP-Link plugged into the same circuit as the network, or hi-fi...or a third?
it will be even more effective if you put this setup between the switch and your streamer. The switch is also noisy
Also the last media converter (before the streamer) should powered by a clean power supply ; LPSU or smartphone power banks are working well there.
Hi Phil,
Can you elaborate on using a power bank to power your source?
Have you actually done so in your own system?
This is something I've thought about but hadn't heard anyone mention before.
Thanks, Hugo
this optical isolation setup is heavily used in the audiophile community where I am living.
I have powered the last tplink with various kind of devices.
for example this powerbank:
(I needed the extra outputs)
Most people are using that one or similar ones
it has a charge function that enables recharging while it powers a device
I have used my hdplex on it and also the mighty uptone JS-2. With the uptone, you get
the proverbial inky blackness. But with a powerbank, you are quite close
@Phil & Hugo,
FWIW, most people don't realize that these USB batteries and power banks use DC-to-DC boost converters internally (a switch mode power supply) to achieve various voltages from their internal lithium-ion batteries. Google 'boost converter'. Regards, ...Abe
I'm looking at getting the Power Zen battery to power my TPLink MC200CM as recommended in the article... BUT the Power Zen has only a 5v output and the TPLink takes 9v input. Are you saying the TPLink will work ok with as little as 5v?
I hope so as I REALLY like the charge and use at the same time feature of the Power Zen!
Greg in Mississippi
Hi Michael
I can agree with the improvement you hear, but I can say, that all these tweaks are endless when having devices without good enough common mode rejection any were in your audio setup, or having purely batterie powered those devices without good common mode rejection or having only devices with good common mode rejection. But sometimes, we need to play with "toys", if we would have the above mentioned ideal case, then we wouldn't have something to play with.
a schematic? I'm getting the Ayre QX-5, so it has a built in streamer and is a Roon end point. I have been going crazy trying to learn as much as possible. Michael has been as helpful as they come and I thank him. I have been talking about having Leon make me a sever or getting the Music Vault as that sounds great, has awesome support and is literally an all in one, but those are both 5k options. I think I should be able to get a Comcast internet account (switching from verse) so I'd get a new modem>router>QNAP 471 set up like Michael showed with Roon Core and possibly Audio Optimizer and one other program I was told about and can't remember>the fiber optic set up in this review. then I'd have a cable run from the room all of the gear is in to the Audio System and just plug in my DAC? If so, I'd only have to spend around 2k total for the modem, router, NAS, Disks and the optical equipment. Not sure how much it would be to have someone come in to run a cable through the attic over a room and drop the ethernet connection for switch into the audio room, but it shouldn't be that difficult (I can't do this anymore due to MS so I have to pay someone).
How close am I to understanding this set up? It really doesn't seem too difficult to understand isolation etc... Thanks all.
LPS is linear power supply
replace Aries by your Ayre
How do you know that the TP-Link's AC adaptor and ethernet output is any less noisy than the switch or router???
Looks to me like unless you have measurements to prove that this makes any difference in the audible frequencies, it could just be a waste of time and money plus another 2 devices plugged into the power bar.
But many switch mode power supplies which I assume these use may add distortions in the high frequency. So how do you know if it might be adding noise say up at 17kHz which might not be audible by an older male but the younger folks might have a problem with???
about electronics and measurements. I really do. The ears, if working properly, can detect slight differences and it's actually the whole auditory process. I don't know if the differences you hear are better or worse, but I've followed you long enough to have an idea as to what you seem to like.
How many times have we heard a system that measure's 'poorly' sound great and visa versa. Granted, certain measurements will tell you things ahead of time, but if you have Amazon Prime, then you can easily return everything, including a sound bar if that's what you are using. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The more I read forums, the more I wonder why folks who live and die on measurements even bother with those of us who listen first. Is it just to validate their laws and rules about life? This isn't even as costly as a decent pair or interconnects, lol.
Phil, thanks. Since my DAC has a built in streamer, I don't even need to use an external one. Dumb question, is the LPS a NAS device? If so, it seems like I can just keep all the gear in a separate room and then run one cable to the audio system and plug the DAC into the ethernet and forget all about USB or AES3, right? In that scenario I assume I'm running a Cat 7 cable from NAS to the other room for the audio and hook that directly into the DAC to bypass the need for a USB or AES3 connection?
Sorry, I have MS and often times mis read things. I just noticed the last two sentences. So you recommend getting a top shelf LPS to plug the second converter into? Then I can run the Cat (should it be 6 or 7? I read that folks feel 7 sends the packets in the proper shape.) to the listening room. Sounds very simple. Where does the NAS fit in? I'm assuming that I can get sound as good as a top shelf server by using a NAS since my DAC is a Roon endpoint so I'd have a totally headless and wireless system. I have a Linn Kiko system that I'll connect wirelessly to the NAS as it's simple and the sound doesn't matter nearly as much. Since I'm starting from scratch, is there a specific modem for Comcast that is best? Router recommended for a two story townhouse and how fast of an internet connection should I purchase from Comcast? sorry for so many questions, but this is starting to take shape for me. Thanks
My ISP modem, router and LAN switch are in a wiring panel in the laundry room. Some distance away, in my home office, the LAN switch feeds an Apple Time Capsule. My Mac Mini server hangs off the Time Capsule. In the living room, the microRendu is connected to an Ethernet drop from the main LAN switch. If I employ the fiber media converter, would I put it between the Time Capsule and the Mac Mini, or is there a better way to configure things?
So Michael, why don't you also use the media converters between your ethernet switcher and your microrendu!!!!
Sorry to jump in with an unrelated problem. Michael can you please delete my account so that I can join again without my email address being posted as my user name. Thanks.
On the subject - Amazon has some PRIME returns, a warehouse deal when you buy 2 and the 1meter cable is cheaper so your mod can be done for $62.40 and it can still be returned if you don't like it.
I'm not certain I understand how this works. Is the conversion of the ethernet to fiber optic supposed to eliminate any electrical noise that might ordinarily be present due to the fact that the fiber optic cable will not transmit such noise? In other words, it is not the converter that eliminates the noise; rather, it is the use of a different cable that simply cannot transmit such noise.
If that is so, what is generating the noise? Is it the power to the router and switch? And, assuming that is what is causing the noise, I don't understand how the hook-up described in the article achieves the desired goal. Wouldn't it make more sense, assuming arguendo that all of the underlying presumptions about noise and how it is transmitted and so forth are correct, to have the endpoint (whatever that is just before your DAC or stereo equipment) be connected by ethernet to the converter then have a fiber optic line to a second converter that is then connected to your switch or router? The connection described in the article has a switch after the fiber optic connection. Isn't this just adding the noise back into the system?
upgrade would be the ifi power supplies on the converters. They are amazingly quiet for what they are.
Michael, I'm interested in this product, but I'm not sure my set up applies. My current network audio playback consists of copying my cd's to my computer in flac; sync those files to my phone; using my network attached (wifi) Oppo bdp 103 and the oppo app on my phone I stream the music to the 103; the 103 is connected to the dac in my Peachtree nova 125se.
Would the device under review possibly improve the sound? Thanks.
Yes that does make sense. Thank you.
Michaels setup is probably different as he is reviewing stuff and needs more than one ethernet link to his media server(s) but Phil's diagram makes sense. Of course one could be extreme and put another set of these devices between the Modem and the LAN Switch. I read somewhere a while ago that it was a good idea to separate out the ethernet links serving the audio side (Network Attached Storage to Media Server) on a separate LAN switch from computers etc. to avoid cross talk contamination through power supplies but that's probably taking things too far, at least for me. I do however use inexpensive (Chinese) Linear Power Supplies for my switches.
"In your scenario, the place to put the media converters would be in between your LAN switch and the microRendu."
Which means I can put it in-line between the ethernet jack in the living room and the microRendu, also in the living room, right? The media converters are effectively an ethernet de-crapifier then -- do you agree?
I will be very curious to learn what people (esp M. Lavorgna) think of the new PS Audio LANRover, which conceivably will do the job of the media converters and the microRendu. But it probably won't, because nothing is ever that simple in this category.
Where to place the media converters in my crazy audio (and video) system?
The audio part of my system UP TO the microrendu:
Western Digital WDMyCloudEX4 16TB, ethernet cable to Linksys router/access point; Linksys with ethernet cable to CAPSv3 ZUMA running the main ROON program; Linksys with ethernet cable to microrendu running as ROON endpoint.CAPSv3 Zuma doubles as multi-channel media server via HDMI to Theta Casablanca IV SSP.
Should I use media comverters between:
1. WDMyCloudEX4 to Linksys router/access point
2. Linksys to CAPSv3 Zuma
3. Linksys to microrendu
Note that my cable modem and main Linksys router are far away in my home office, and I use a Linksys via the home electrical wire over to my dedicated theater room's Linksys router which is configured for use as an access point.
Says it all!@@@
This works fine for me!!!
I understand that it doesn't really matter where it goes in the chain - as long as it is after your ISP hookup, it can go before or after the router, or before or after the wireless access point - it just depends what is most convenient in terms of ports?
In my case,I think I'd be doing this:
ISP modem>Linksys AC 1900 wired/wireless router>gigabit switch>TP-link converters>microRendu
Make sense?
But what makes anyone think that these transmitting/receiving devices would result in any less noisy output?! And isn't the microRendu supposed to be good at rejecting noise and jitter after spending >$600?
In your case, how do we know whether the TP-link's ethernet output is any better in terms of jitter or noise than straight from the gigabit switch which could be an electrically "quiet" device? I know a hundred bucks isn't a big deal but this is adding 2 more devices in the chain, 2 more AC adapters.
a) The mR is noise reducing; the fiber connection is probably even quieter and adds real isolation from what comes before it.
b) lots of people - not just Michael - have reported it works, with much the same description as Michael.
a. Based on mR page:
External power input jack
RJ45 input connector
USB audio output connector
Micro SD port for operating system
*High quality low noise and ultra low noise regulators*
*Fixed frequency low jitter oscillators*
Multicore processor with DDR3 RAM
Don't know about noise reducing per se, but it is supposed to be good on the noise and jitter departments presumably for the USB port output which is ultimately what's important.
b. "Lots of people" have claimed lots of things and abandoned these ideas over time. This one seems dubious and excessive because of all the devices in place and likely lower quality switching power supplies in the chain.
I kept reading about optical isolation but was confused as to how to implement it. That clears a lot up.
With the setup above, you need another 3 electrical outlets in addition to what is needed in your setup right? For the media converters x2 and the switch. These come with switching supplies I presume. They do not need separate linear power supplies and good power cords I hope?
Micheal, my current source/eqipment stream is as follows:
wireless router-->Tidal-->Sonos--> toslink-->DAC -->amp-->speakers
If I understand correctly the fiber converter does not apply to me because I have no ethernet connections in my system.
It sounds like these converters only output 1000Mbps and aren't compatable with 100Mbps devices. At least that is what some of the amazon reviews have said.
Would inserting a switch that is compatible with both speeds allow you to use a streamer that only has a 100Mbps port?
Any specific features suggested to look for in a switch? Or just any standard switch from a reputable company?
So could you confirm that the TP LINK MC100CM will be as good for audio streamming as the one you have ?
Best thread Michael. BEST THREAD in ages. I greatly appreciate all your hard work on this site as you know, but this thread just takes the cake. I'm close with many of the guys on CA now through various contacts and some of the leaders have been working with me to discuss using optical. I'm waiting on my Ayre QX-5/Twenty (finally get to audition it at Audio Connection with Alex from Ayre next Saturday...yes!!) and will be getting rid of Frontier as I HATE THEM. I'm going back to Comcast and need to buy a new modem as well as a new router regardless. You know that I've been all over the board in this search, but since the Ayre is a true digital hub with streamer and 10 connections, I will use it that way. I don't need a server even though I was about to get the Music Vault, lol. So glad that I held off as now I'll get either the Melco to use as a NAS or the QNAP 471 set up the way you showed last week. Either way, I'll use the ethernet connection from either device. Still need to try and figure out which one will sound better with the Ayre. I don't have to have Roon and honestly, some of the guru's I've spoken with aren't totally sold on it either, but I still may. Either set up will be getting the optical treatment for sure. I'll pay someone to run the optical cable, but if folks want to go crazy, there are some different types of CAT cables to use in various places that probably increase the sound quality even more, lol. Just read what Phil showed above and it's easy to figure out. He KNOWS his stuff too folks. I've been told by more than a few that the PSU's you use with the converter etc... DO make a difference. You can get very good ones for $400 if you chose. Lot's of places for those. I would't buy one unless you like the sound difference in the first place and then go one at a time. I'm going to buy mine through Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio as he uses the Paul Hynes regulators and makes as good or better a PSU as Paul himself (although you can't get one from Paul anymore, lol). I have used one in the power station on my former DAC, the Empirical Audio ODSE/SE with upgraded caps etc... and also on my Mac Mini server I use now that used to be Steve's personal DAC with all the high res, well recorded stuff. I'll be selling that off as soon as I get THIS new set up in place.
Long post, but everything counts in the system from the 'sound' of it, lol. YEs even the PSU's count even with the isolation I guess. My assumption would be to do the last converter first??? Phil??? Michael???
Thanks to all of you who are sharing such great knowledge and making this tedious task fun!
I had this device hanging out from pre Roon/microRendu days. It was on the ethernet line going to my jRiver server. I now have it on the ethernet line leading from the switch to the microRendu and it is a definite improvement in lower noise floor as shown by a louder, fuller/richer sound.
I have the optical isolators Michael described on order and will try them and report back how they do against this device. I dislike having to add all of that complexity to my system so I am biased towards the SOTM Isolator being just as good. It is always good to admit your biases - especially to yourself.
If you do try the SOTM Isolator make sure you get the directionality correct as it makes a difference.
From http://docs.sonore.us/microrendu/microRendu%20Known%20Issues.html (my bold):
Quote: 2. Optical network isolation
50/50 chance that optical network isolators will cause connection and playback issues. The use of optical network isolators is not recommend.
Just sayin'..
..but presumably Andrew Gillis had a reason for writing what he wrote and that might have been based on a slightly larger sample. So I thought it would be worth pointing out since you are recommending a configuration known to cause issues roughly half the time to readers, some of whom appear to have very low computer literacy. You may want to loop back with him.
Steve, is this an alternative to the Intona isolator or do they both add something when used together?
Ah yes, thanks Steve. I did know that but forgot and got myself confused with this LAN isolator from Acousence:
A few people on the Meridian forum have reported good things from using it. I guess it is performing the same function as optical isolation, with the benefit of being passive. I believe it is about 300 Euros though.
Artistic fidelity is a company from Acousence.
Acousence is a recording company going strong for 24 bit recordings. The network/streaming products are byproducts now sold under an own brand.
..I thought you were somehow associated with the site and replying on Michael's behalf. Should have said "..Michael recommended it.."
Anyway, bowing out of this one, I'm not trying to score points here and I have no horse in this race. Was just trying to be helpful and save Michael some blowback if it turns out to be a problematic combination in other configurations.
TPlink works fine in my system, placed between Linksys AC1900WRT GB router and microrendu (I also use CAPSv3 for Roon core, using roon endpoint of microrendu).
However, just set up a Transporter i5 and microrendu for a friend, who has Cyberlink GB router and also Netgear GB switch,and TPLink did not work in his system Go FIGURE!
Running since Saturday with no dropout issues. They get warm (112F) but not hot. About the same temperature as my Netgear Switch (114F) and LPSU (101F).
Outside in VA the Heat Index is 104F so par for the course in this part of the country.
Sounds good so far.
Ok, so here is the part I get. My Mac Mini is plugged into my DAC with a USB cable. I use the internal hard drive of the Mac Mini to store music. NO Ethernet cable in my audio system. THis device does not apply.
OK. here is the part I am unsure about. I use a good Ethernet cable (AQ Cinnamon) from my cable modem to my router. From the router, I have a wired connection by Ethernet to my main computer and a wired Ethernet connection to my Apple TV (the wired up Apple TV has better video quality than when used with wifi). THe router also feeds my iPad through wifi.
Is there a place I could use this device to improve the feed sent to my Apple TV? ON the Ethernet cable between the cable modem and router? On the Ethernet cable between router and Apple TV?
SOrry for the typos. MY iMac is in the shop, and I have to type on my iPAd. I hate typing on the iPad!
I know this is off topic Michael, but I like the way that you called bullcrap on the people who took a dump on Ayre over on Stereophile. That whole slew of comments pissed me off. People ranting about stuff they imagine in their heads, then attacking others with nothing but their imagined obsessions.
I stayed out of it, because I hate trying to discuss rationally with people hell bent on spreading misinformation.
My local dealer is highly selective of the brands he sells. He has gotten rid of brands, and refused others for much less than what Ayre has been accused of in that thread. He sells Ayre and supports the brand enthusiastically. He would never accept that one of his customers would get shafted by a manufacturer.
The stuff in that thread is BS.
I was considering the sOTM iso-cat. Michael, how does that compare to the TP-Link? It is a less costly solution but are there audible differences. Maybe Lifer has already had the chance to compare like he says in his post?
Perhaps a week from now I will be ready to say how I feel about it versus the sOTm isolator.
I found a review of the sOTM where the reviewer already used Tripp Lite media converters -which seems pretty similar to the TP-Link (?) - in his system:
So I guess we need them all in a chain to be truly de-crapped.
The components to implement optical isolation are arriving piece-meal and so I decided to compare the AQ Forest to the SOtM cable that comes with the isolator. Sorry to say that the SOtM is the superior transmitter. Sorry because I can always get the AQ Forest cheaply. Now I know that when I switch the SOtM Isolator for the optical devices I will keep the SOtM cable in place. I can't try the SOtM versus the AQ Vodka or Diamond cables because the SOtM is only about 8 inches long.


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There is nothing on the internet at all that I can find. I would like information about it's history, rarity, value, and any help on who might be interested in this vehicle, though, technically it's a motorcycle, or if not that, then perhaps a lead as to who else I could try to contact.
It's owner, Bob, lives down the road and I've always admired all the neat junk he's had out over the 20 or so years I've lived here. I met him last week and just that quick he has decided that he wants me to help him get rid of it.
You see, his wife of 54 years has very recently passed away. They were both avid collectors, but now he just wants to move south to be with family.
The vehicle is a 1933 Tempo-Wagen I can tell you it works, everything is there, there's even the windsheild in perfect shape. The steering wheel is just raw exposed 4" peices of wood wired together. And if you can't tell, it's a two seater. The cushion for the first seat is completely deteriorated. The other one is in decent shape and says Bruninghaus.
I asked my husband if it was a basket case and he laughed and said ,"heck no, this is an easy fix!!!!." The paint seems to be original.
So I'm thanking you for taking the time to read this. I hope I haven't overextended myself and anxiously await a reply from you. Please do get back to me so I am assured that you even received this and so I'll know if I have to keep looking for more people to try to contact. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/album.php?aid=4690&id=100001776133463 here's pics and paperwork
Thank You, and have a nice day,Laurie Everett
email@example.com to help her out


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Very clear and honest. It's refreshing to have a well known reviewer that doesn't love everything. Sounds like there may be a rush to get the last 650's.
Sennheiser HD 660 S Over-Ear Open Headphones
I'll not wax poetic this time regarding the long and storied history and my experiences with the HD 6xx family of Sennheiser headphones. For that, simply go have a look at my "The Very Important Sennheiser HD 580, HD 600, and HD 650" review.
For now it's sufficient to state that the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 650 are probably the most highly regarded enthusiast headphone in the world, and I highly recommend both. The HD 650 is a bit too warm sounding for me (just a bit), and the HD 600 is my favorite of the two.
The only problems with them is that the clamping force on the head is a little too strong, and they can sound a little "veiled" or distant in the lower presence region around 800Hz to 1500Hzthe HD 650 a bit more so than the HD600. Some will say the HD 650 has more mid-bass bloom, which it does, but it amounts to the same thing relatively speaking.
The clamping pressure can be modified fairly easily: extend the earpads all the way; grip the headband with both hands close to the center of the headband; then rotate your hands putting pressur near the center of the headband so as to stretch them out. The headband is a very high quality plastic and will not break; just be firm and not over-zealous feeling the plastic deform slightly as you do it and repeat until the pressure is right. I've heard others suggest to bend the metal headband extensions; I don't like this idea as the shape of the metal extensions are set to slide into pockets in the headband and I think it's best to let them retain their proper shape.
Numerous modifications have been developed by enthusiasts over the years. I have to review headphones in their stock form so I have only a little personal experience with these modified cans. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest starting your journey with this SBAF thread pointing to wide variety of HD 6xx information resources, and this post indexing a number of the modification threads.
And with that, we'll dive right into the HD 660 S
Sennheiser HD 660 S ($499.95)
The HD 660 S visually has very close family ties to its older siblings and, to me, it's the best looking variant yet. Liveried in simple matte black plastic with new grills that include a raised area with the Sennheiser logo it strengthens my personal conviction that audio gear should be black. Silly, I know, but I think a stealth black look helps put the focus on where it belongs: sound quality, not looks.
The HD 660 S still has the somewhat tight clamping force, which can be remedied as mentioned above. Once set, the HD 660 S has the same quite comfortable, head-hugging fit and light weight of its predecessors. There are a few subtle differences.
Though the presentation case remains the same, the HD 660 S comes with two cables, both about ten feet long, one terminated in a 1/4" TRS plug, the other terminated in the new 4.4mm Pentaconn TRRRS balanced connector. Also included is a 1/4" jack to 3.5mm plug short cable adapter.
There has been a slight change to the earpad. From what I can gather the earpads are slightly thicker and have a slightly beveled inside circumference. In this Head-Fi post a Sennheiser representative said is was done to make them feel a little more "roomy and pleasant." I went back and forth between my HD 650 and the HD 660 S and felt indeed there might be a small improvement in comfort, but it is subtle.
Let's take a look inside:
As you can see there are a lot of similarities between the ear capsules of these headphones, if fact they are identical in a number of ways. Earpads, grills, and cables are interchangeable. The one big different is the driver assembly, which is completely different and not interchangeable. The diameter of the HD 600/650 driver housing is 1.722", the HD 660 S is 1.737" in diameter.
Obviously, these are quite different drivers. Rumors run rampant that this is an HD 700 driver. I wasn't able to find a definitive comment from Sennheiser, but in this post Jude claims it is a derivation:
The driver is based on the Sennheiser HD 700's driver, but it does not sound like an HD700 -- it sounds like an HD600-series headphone, through and through.
He's fairly privy to inside information, and a good hard look at the two make it fairly obvious they're related.
I don't have an HD 700 here to take physical measurements, but the resemblance is undeniable. The most distinguishing feature to my eyes is the very fine stainless steel mesh behind the outside edge of the driver formed to mimic the shape and ventilate that area evenly. Here's what the Sennheiser HD 660 S product page says:
The HD 660 S features a new transducer design developed by Sennheiser. This results in improved control of the diaphragm movements thanks to a specially manufactured precision stainless steel fabric, which is adapted to the contour of the diaphragm. Extremely light aluminum voice coils ensure the highest impulse fidelity.
Hm. Well they sort of state that it's a new design, but I'm betting that's a bit of poetic licensethe HD 700 is a relatively new design. Thing is, impedance and phase measurements are almost identical.
Man, it doesn't get much closer than that. By my reckoning, it seems very likely that the HD 660 S is using the HD 700 driver design with a redesigned outer housing to fit into slightly changed HD 6xx baffle plate.
The thing to me that's very interesting is that, assuming it is an HD 700 driver, how little the driver performance itself effects the performance of the headphone as a whole. In the 300Hz square wave responses above you can clearly see the HD 660 S response (middle) is very much like the the HD 600 response (top) and is quite unlike the HD 700 response (bottom)...and that's a very good thing. I found the HD 700 a very bright headphone with an uncontrolled treble. Just goes to show you how much the overall acoustic of a headphone is largely due to the acoustics of the ear cup and has less to do with the driver itself.
Alrightythen, let's have a listen.
The 660S is rather boring. I was excited at first but I got Sennheiser'ed.
Performance was to be expected given that the HD 700 and the HD 650 use transducers with almost identical TS parameters.
I'm sure if you were to stick an HD 599 driver inside a 650 it would sound similar aswell.
Used HD 580s for 150€ with new pads seem preferable.
However, I think I'll buy the 660S grills for my 650. Looks neat.
The closed HD 800 is next on the list. Then the new Baby Orpheus. And maybe they'll do something completely new in 10 years.
I am a headphone enthusiast but I started with my obsession with High Fidelity home audio, the headphone to me is 100% based on trying to get the best sound possible while being the most convenient.
I still havent fallen in love with any bluetooth so I am fine dealing with the discomfort of cords, but I have been wanting the HD650 but with the inconvenience of needing an amp to really enjoy makes it something that I would never use as I would rather listen to my home audio if I have to be stationary.
My currenty heavy in use headphones are the se535, HD558, AKG 553 MKII and one of my favs the AKG K240 (what a high value headphone!).
My question is, is the 660S is a significant upgrade over the 558/598 headphones? If so I may have a must buy.
Actually any of the 600, 650, and 660S would be an upgrade over the 558/598 series. The only thing you will lose is soundstage width, and also the signatures are a bit less bright and aggressive in the upper mids and treble region. Detail however is significantly improved vs the 5x8 stuff.
Based upon reviews, yes it is, but apparently the 650 is better than the 660s, so go there instead.
Did you buy brand new pads for your 600 and 650 units immediately before doing this review? If not, that has enormously colored your perception of these models' sound signatures. It is well known that older pads will give your 600 and 650 that "smoother" and more "organic" sound that you mentioned. As soon as the pads are replaced, the sound is significantly changed. I would like to hear full follow-up impressions and see measurements of all of these 3 units once you have replaced all pads, if that was not done already, for the sake of everyone who is going to buy pairs of these headphones brand new.
Agreed. Rin Choi measured a HD 650 with old and new pads, and switching from old to new pads increased 5-6kHz by more than 5dB, and generally everything above 1kHz got tilted up.
see: http://rinchoi.blogspot.ca/2012/04/introduction-it-is-generally-known-th... (scroll down to "Discussion")
I'm not sure if those measurements have been repeated elsewhere?
Solderdude also looked into this a bit, talking about older style 650 pads vs newer ones, in addition to pad condition.
All the Headphones Tyll uses for comparison are in almost brand new condition. He is more than 25 years working with headphones giving a huge contribute to all the Headphone World. Do you really think he messed up the review because of the pads? Man, this is ridiculous and disrespecful, you are not talking with a noob.
grainy A moderate texturing of reproduced sound. The sonic equivalent of grain in a photograph. Coarser than dry but finer than gritty.
What causes a transducer to produce grain?
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-f-h#5...
Although I don't ear this increased graininess when comparing my 660S to my 600 (indeed I ear the 660S to sound more "organic") I really appreciated this sincere review, as always.
Pads, schmads ... There's clearly evidence in the measurements that the treble responses differ from the past designs and I'd trust Tyll's ears to determine how those changes will effect the overall presentation of the headphone. That's why I'm here!
Excellent review once again Tyll!
"But I'll also steer buyers towards the HD 600—or Massdrop HD 6XX if it becomes available again—as the better sounding alternative."
Letting people know that the 6xx are indeed available on Massdrop now, yes with a delay, but still... a 650 for 200 bucks...
Is there a relationship here, really?
Aren't the factors that determine impedance in dynamic drivers
1) length of voice coil wire (L)
2) gauge of voice coil wire (AWG)
3) type of conductor in VC wire (what metal)
4) strength of magnetic field in VC gap (B)
5) acoustic and mechanical resonance (Ir)
6) acoustic and mechanical impedance (Imm)
7) voice coil geometry (underhung vs overhung)
Knowing of several examples of sound being improved by increased
sensitivity / lower impedances, rather than the opposite, I don't believe that design criteria (Sensitivity / impedance) is a determining factor in driver performance. Think, for one example, Sennheiser Amperior vs HD 25 II, even in aluminum for both. Requiring a separate special amplifier is becoming less and less popular.
Not to say that better amplifiers won't improve the sound of headphones, any headphones, sensitive or not. Not only are we moving away from chip amps in phones through a wire to the cans, but now it is the rage to be wireless, which involves inevitable signal degeneration. Compressed, lossy music files via Bluetooth to sensitive IC powered cans is the future, very sadly. It isn't the sensitivity of the cans that is the problem though.
The introduction of this model does seem a bit odd. It could/should have been a slam dunk in just improving a little on a classic to build on its cult following. If they had just made a unit just appreciably bettter than the 600/650 there would be a large market in devoted followers in upgrading.
I wonder how much of the desire to drop impedance is the reason for the miss fire? I also wonder if there were heated debates within Sennheiser regarding the impedance and direction of this model. Time will 'perhaps' tell.
For many of the reasons Tyll pointed to,these cans don't really cut the mustard anymore. None of them. Biggest problem...bass rolloff. Next to that, the veil..lacking low treble and high mids.
This is a failed attempt to address the real problems with these cans. I disagree that the Sennheiser HD 6XX Massdrop was such a deal. Personally I think AKG had a better can through Massdrop with the AKG K 7XX.
The fact that the housing of the drivers makes such a huge difference in sound points to how much differently we hear them with our various sized ears. I bet I fill a whole lot more of the cans cavity with my flappers than most do. The size,and shape of ear canals makes huge differences as well as hair, glasses (sometimes), head size (fit)...so it isn't too surprising that pairing drivers to the entire enclosure involved (cans and the individual wearing them) is critical and accounts for the varied responses from individual to individual.
Good review Tyll....very disappointing that after what, 17 years? Sennheiser hasn't made more progress.
I have to say that after your comment I was quite surprised to look at the AKG's 7xx frequency response... AKG are not exactly known for their deep bass. I agree with you that this roll off at 100 is kinda... Well there's something missing. What I was gonna say tough is that to get this bass, in a sub 500$ range, you have to either go closed, or planar, with the compromise associated with both these design and to me the 6XX is still very good value. But I was just thinking today that... Yeah, great classic, very good sound but I keep coming back to something with subs. My other cans are He-400is and Th-X00, which are both to me better than a 6 serie senn. but still more than twice the price of a Massdrop 6XX
That Massdrop version of AKG's 7XX has improved bass over previous versions..another good result for Massdrop. It measures down 5 dB at about 17 Hz...not too shabby at all. It has all the clarity and detail, if not a tad extra presence, which is from 3.5 kHz to 6 kHz, (not as Tyll has it) that is sorely lacking in the HD 6XX series.
For example the HD 600 are down 5 dB at 40 Hz,(17 Hz for AKG) and down 10 dB at 5 kHz, compared to the AKGs which are flat at 5 kHz. It adds up to much better bass, and even better detail and presence. $200.00...a great deal.
I haven't heard the HiFiman,HE 400, but it sure measures well! The AKG looks has much more similarities to it than the Senns.
Your Fostex TH-X100 and the AKG K 7XX also measure remarkably similarly, with the Fostex looking a bit better in the sub bass, and
slightly recessed in the highs than HE 400, and the AKG K 7XX. I imagine they all three represent better values than the Sennheisers 6XX series.
I'm guessing that Tyll never listens with a subwoofer, just his little Harbeths, which roll off like the Sennheisers, so it is understandable that he doesn't miss the bottom octave as much as people with flat systems. I design and build loudspeakers, and have been now for 27 years (seriously...with good measuring tools) and am spoiled by having flat in room response. Which do you prefer your HiFiman or Fostex?
Thanks, I like them both. I really like the punchy and dynamic sound of the Fostex, definitely have more slam but the Hifiman 400is could be called more neutral and with a larger image. Objectively I think the Hifiman is the better headphone but (even tough hifiman marketing suggest that) they are hard to drive and need a decent amp... Nothing fancy but just something better than the output of a phone. I'm having great result with the Bluewave Get that I've designed and put to market... I know, probably deserve to be flagged for self promotion... but threw it in anyway, I'll take the blame if need be...
No progress? You forgot hd800.
Moreover many find the hd660s an improvement over 600 and 650.
I think Tyll makes it quite clear the specific reason he prefers the 650, 6XX, or 600. Of course the relative importance of various aspects of audio gear differs from person to person (for example, soundstage isn't especially crucial to my audio decisions). It is very easy to imagine someone preferring the 660S based on aspects of it compared to the 650/6XX/600 that this review describes.
I very much appreciate how Tyll contextualizes his own personal preferences in his reviews. And in many cases will not review a pair of headphones (bright/treble heavy) that go against those preferences. Sometimes we gravitate towards reviewers whose taste in gear reflects our own. In other cases, we must triangulate our tastes with the reviewer's and hope that the review has enough detailed description to allow us to do that.
I hope that in the comments those who prefer the 660S also extend us the favor of giving their reasons why. Let's not forget the role that personal preferences play in this hobby.
I want to specify that I really appreciate Tyll reviews and opinions even when my sensation are different. I wrote a long post about my impressions on the 660S on headfi, and I will not repeat here :p It's not my preferred headphone, I like my hd800S more, and I might also prefer my hd700 on the hd660S. Nevertheless I like the 660S and this time I disagree not only in the preferences (obvious because we are all different) but also in some audio facts, which is strange as I always agree with Tyll on the "facts". For example, like others I find the hd660S to have less grain than the hd600, not more.
More specifically, there's a thing of the hd660S that really mesmerized me, that it's not mentioned in the Innerfi's review. It's the wonderful work on timbre and harmonics of cymbals and triangles that the hd660S does. It really surprised me. The hd600 in direct comparison seemed quite "muted" on high cymbals and triangles.
I generally assume that because Tyll tends to dislike strong treble that he percieves a hard edge on the upper frequencies as being grainy because of how harsh it sounds to him, rather than because there's any actual obscurity of detail. I get what he means when he says that being detailed and resolving isn't the same as merely having elevated upper mid and treble response, but his own preference towards smooth resolve over bright resolve is evident. Some people, including me, prefer to have actual presence of detail while having a bright edge to the upper frequencies to accentuate it.
But on the other hand, I once did hear an HD700 and I really did hear a grainy fuzz to it, but in a way that was markedly different from the very veiled (to me at least) HD650. I've only tried it once admittedly, but it left a bad impression. So I'm not all too surprised that Sennheiser may have fumbled a bit in trying to stuff the HD700's drivers into a 600 series shell to try and make for a lower impedance model.
I did not post this here - the buggy software did...
Appreciated the heartfelt review.
Hopefully in years to come, some of that HE-1 awesomeness will trickle down to the 600/700 series.
I really enjoy the HD 579, the older brother of the 569
I agree with some of your review but there are some issues that we are quite far apart on. Just want to say that its a mistake to suggest bending the headband in the middle. You'll have a contingent of hobbyist emailing you after the headband assembly snaps in two. ONLY stretch the metal section...imo.
Senn is replacing a headphone for an new and "improved" version instead of complimenting the HD650 with an easier to drive version. I have some theories why:
1) The HD650 isn't selling as well as Sennheiser would like, when there is the 600 selling for less (MSRP prices).
2) The HD700 is not selling well and Sennheiser created a new headphone using HD700 parts from the parts bin (driver, etc)
I'm disappointed, but only that the HD650 will be discontinued.
The pad differences could be interesting. Actually, Tyll did you try swapping the 660 pads with 650/600 ones to see if that alone might offer the subtle sound differences, or even just a change?
Another thing that would've been interesting, and granted them not including a 3.5mm cable seems to indicate they don't expect it in spite of their reasoning of making it more efficient, but a comparison out of portable players I think would be fairly important. The thing is, I'd almost guess that they'd actually be worse (with regards to smoothness), but perhaps that's the desire, or the bass blooms up more which is what more people would want. Or maybe after processing that might be typical on such devices, that the treble is enjoyed (basically it helps retrieve some of that lost that causes say the HD650 to sound too veiled)?
Summary Table
Frequency Range Frequency Values
Sub-bass 20 to 60 Hz
Bass 60 to 250 Hz
Low midrange 250 to 500 Hz
Midrange 500 Hz to 2 kHz
Upper midrange 2 to 4 kHz
Presence 4 to 6 kHz
Brilliance 6 to 20 kHz
...many,if not most, would call upper midrange (2 to 4 kHz ) low treble, with treble being 4 kHz to 6 kHz...presence and air (or brilliance) from 6 kHz up.
I think we should all use the same (or close) definitions for what we are talking about, otherwise it is just babble.
@ zobel - Sub-Bass is 15/20 to 40Hz.
150 Hz and up are lower middle frequencies
Sub bass...............1o Hz to 25 Hz
Low Bass...............25 Hz to 50 Hz
Mid Bass...............50 Hz to 100 Hz
Upper Bass............100 Hz to 250 Hz
Low Mids..............250 Hz to 500 Hz
Midrange.............500 Hz to 2000 Hz
Low treble..........2000 Hz to 4000 Hz..(with presence 3kHz - 6 kHz)
Treble............4000 Hz to 10,000 Hz
Upper treble....10,000 Hz to 20,000 Hz..(same as air or brilliance)
I think that it will work for all practical purposes..even if not quite the norm, I think, from most of what I've seen elsewhere.
I think the presence range has almost always been listed no lower than 2kHz, and extending to 6kHz (usually), and maybe the reason for that is because those frequencies are above the fundamentals in music far enough to change the distance perceived to them more than simply the quantity of them. Think a distant branch snap, or grass rustling vs a close by one. Low frequencies travel much further than higher ones. We may hear loud rustling or snapping, but our distance cues are frequency based. When using EQ for playback or recording instruments...including the voice, the cues to distance are found in the low treble..3kHz to 6kHz. You can prove this to yourself by playing with the EQ in listening sessions. If upper mids (800 Hz to 2kHz) are raised in level, to most, I think, it only makes those tones louder, not closer. It is all subjective, of course, but this is one area where there is disagreement. No matter, really, if we are all on the same page.
I agree that this looks right:
Sub bass...............1o Hz to 25 Hz
Low Bass...............25 Hz to 50 Hz
Mid Bass...............50 Hz to 100 Hz
Upper Bass............100 Hz to 250 Hz
Low Mids..............250 Hz to 500 Hz
Midrange.............500 Hz to 2000 Hz
Low treble..........2000 Hz to 4000 Hz..(with presence 3kHz - 6 kHz)
Treble............4000 Hz to 10,000 Hz
Upper treble....10,000 Hz to 20,000 Hz..(same as air or brilliance)
Someone on this site once defined "midrange" based on the frequency of middle C on the piano--failing to note that the piano is only a bass/midrange instrument. The keyboard does not present the full range of frequencies shown in Tyll's graphs, but only extends into the upper midrange or lower treble. Thus at about 256 or 260 Hz, middle C actually represents the transition from upper bass to lower mids--as shown in the post by Zobel.
Tyll, the presence region is roughly 2khz to 5khz. It's not for you to re-define according to your own predilections.
I'll be very happy if the above can be used as a reference.
Bass.........20 Hz to 250 Hz
Midrange....250 Hz to 2500 Hz
Treble......2500 Hz to 20,000 Hz
This represents the range of Human hearing, and divides the frequencies into the old standards of Bass, Mids, & Treble. These have been the widely accepted definitions for many years.
In the table below, the further subdivisions are useful to more accurately describe the audible spectrum, which have developed over time, to describe the ten octaves we can hear as illustrated below. Note also the frequencies that most refer to as ("presence") and ("air" or "sparkle"). It is important that we use these standards in naming the different bands of frequencies in order to have a common language. If not referring to this standard, the only alternative is to talk in terms of the frequencies in Hz, and mention only the numbers.
Sub Bass...........10 Hz to 25 Hz
Low bass...........25 Hz to 50 Hz
Mid Bass...........50 Hz to 125 Hz
Upper Bass........125 Hz to 250 Hz
Low Mids..........250 Hz to 500 Hz
Central Mids......5oo Hz to 1000 Hz
Upper Mids.......1000 Hz to 2500 Hz
Low Treble.......2500 Hz to 4500 Hz ....('presence region'.....
Central Treble...4500 Hz to 10,000 Hz ...3 kHz to 6 kHz)
Upper Treble...10,000 Hz to 20,000 Hz .('air/sparkle' 10 kHz & up)
Anyway, I find the absence of listened music for the review a strong defect on this and other reviews (excellent for all other things). I almost never found an headphone always better than another with different recordings.
You first said it correctly in your review, but then come up with thgis wring statement again:
No, the 660s is far from being loud enough on a usual smartphone like an iPhone.
Ok, I give up. This software just too stupid.
Thank you Tyll for yet another exemplary review. Being late to the party has its rewards. You are able to comment on the rumours and previous badly made reviews.
I can only assume other reviewers of these phones took too much notice of the Sennheiser hype and swallowed it.
These phones seem to have been designed and made via a committee, with the marketing and sales departments having the biggest say. At best, they are an attempt to be all things to all people and failing to build on the HD 600 heritage. It is as if they do not know the value of what they already possess.
Hats off to you Tyll, for being so exacting and honest with your evaluation.
Have you ever heard the 660S? I ask because I have them, and I'm entitled to partially disagree with Tyll impressions. I really appreciate his opinions, but it's not the only "truth" in HiFi. The fact that he disagrees with others, doesn't mean that the others are dumb hypey fanboys.
Have you ever bought a fake product? The more you pay for it the less likely you are to question its authenticity. I think its called self justification. If you are happy with the HD 660s then I guess that's all that matters.
Happy listening.
Ok, you never heard the 660S.
My comments were about the quality of the review and the reviewer not the product. For that I don't need to hear the 660s. I trust the reviewers integrity he didn't just comment about the sound he went into detail about how Sennheiser's misleading hype, the drivers, how they measure like the 700's etc etc.
I have bought 3 headphones without first hearing them, just going by Tyll's reviews and I am not disappointed or have found myself disagreeing with his reviews.
The fact is, that many headphones enthusiast, me included, find the HD660S perfectly good as an hair of the hd580/6xx heritage. This is respectable like other opinions. And I strongly disagree with your assumptions about 660S creation and judgement about who likes this headphone. Here we say that you "did a lick"... but you never heard the headphone. To be clear: I always appreciate the quality of Tyll reviews, except for the absence of indications of the music played for the review.
So why don't you take up your complaints with the author of the review? I cannot help you. I am happy with the review your not.
I was mainly commenting about your post, so I wrote to you. Why write to Tyll about your post? :D
Well if you cannot read I guess there is no point in commenting at all!
And I've also bought headphones despite Innerfidelity reviews and liked them very much with my ears/tastes.
Interesting review. Thanks!
My first thought was that 660s had hand-picked 650s drivers (with better THD and FR characteristic.)
Well, it's actually HD 700 driver after all. Makes sense. Probably Sennheiser doesn't want to throw away some HD 700 drivers which don't meet THD requisites (<0.03%) but still suitable for HD660s (<0.04%)
I still remeber that my first audiophile grade headphones were HD 650. :) Awesome.
Welp, that settles it, I'd been curious about these for a little while but seeing as I have some decent upstream gear I guess I'll pass.
I've been wanting to hear the difference between the HD650 & my HD600, and/or mod the former while having a sort of reference, guess the time to do so is now before they vanish.
Hopefully they're still $300-ish in January after I'm done traveling for the holidays...
I want to echo the sentiment expressed by an earlier commenter, that it's good to know that Innerfi is willing to call things the way you see (hear) them, even when it doesn't 'tickle'. Manufacturers shouldn't expect a 'free ride'.
As a longtime HD650 owner and advocate, the review eased the tinge of buyer's remorse I felt when learning of the 660S just after buying the Beyer Amiron which is $100 more. Despite my high regard for Senn's classic, I'd be hard pressed to name an area where the Amiron doesn't outperform the 650 to my ears (maybe the 650's smoothness makes it a little more 'forgiving' on some material.) For those who were considering the now-discontinued 650 or another open can in that range, the Amiron should be on your radar IMO although I will admit the overall signatures are quite different.
Do you want a HD700 to compare against? I'm in Bozo so it would be quick to let you borrow mine.
Now comes the HD58xx from Massdrop, looking almost identical to the HD6xx. There's only one man who can sort all this out.... Look! Up in the air! It's a bird! It's a plane!
Oh, and it's $149....
Great review. I get the impression that manufacturers are designing their products to play well with low level gear like smartphones. Think they have come a long way with pulling that off while still having a sound that is above consumer level products and more in line with audiophile level. The compromise being how well they scale and the grain you spoke of. I think they are working hard to disguise the grain as 'energy up top'. It is remarkable that they have been able to achieve this at all, don't think we would have seen a product like this ten years ago. That all being said, I won't be trading in my 650 anytime soon.
Hy Tyll,
Would you say the 660s is superior to the HD600/650 when driven by a cheap <$300 amp? If so it seems an easy explanation for its existence and positive reception in the forums. If not, who knows... maybe just personal preference of most people deviates from your own in this case?
Thanks, Tyll. Great review as always. You've given me all the excuse that I need, and have been looking for a long time, to buy another HD650! I'll use one with a CH650S balanced cable on my HDVD800, and the other with the stock cable on everything else. I also have an early HD600 (and 580 Precision) and although I fully understand why you and many others prefer the HD600, my preference is for the HD650. To me it is warmer, and yes, darker, but it has better resolution and soundstage.
One thing I'm certain about is that if Senn do discontinue the HD650, it will immediately go from legendary status to cult status!
I think Sennheiser is running into the Gibson/Fender problem... they have been doing things so right for so long either by nailing it right away or through trial and research an actually being great or by customers just expecting that sound or a combination of the two that if they make anything different it doesn't do well. I think Sennheiser should have improved the HD700 with an "HD700 S" instead of making a 660 and then the Massdrop "580" which is more of a 660 in 580 skin.
Another quick review with comparison to the elder models; from another point of view. Enjoy!
These headphones are really very great.
if Senn do discontinue the HD650, it will immediately go from legendary status to cult status! Read more.
Tyll, for your information, I've just replaced the ear pads on my original (pre Jubilee model) precision 580's with replacement Sennheiser pads (part number 050635), and they are identical to the new pads on the 660 S, i.e. a little thicker and slightly bevelled on the inside. This leads me to assume that all 600 series headphones will now come with pads like this, and it's not a difference specific to the new 660 S.
Best regards, Michael.
I now see that the Senn rep stated (in the Headfi post that you linked) that the replacement parts would be the new design from now on, but, again, one would assume that means that new HD 600 and HD 650 headphones will also have the new pads. It wouldn't make any sense to manufacture two slightly different shape pads and provide the old type only on new HD 600/650's and not as replacements for those headphones. All pretty irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things, but nonetheless, good to know.....maybe......
Hi, I have LCD2 Classic which I love it, but it gave me a headache most of the time because the weight and clamped to much near my ear. My question is should I get HD660S or HD650 if I decides to swap my LCD2 Classic? I did tried HD660S before but never try HD650. Cheers
Could you check whether the isolation graph correct? 4-5 db isolation across the audio band from an open back headphone? HD600 and HD650 did not do that.
Sennheiser started to sell the 660 with the 58x name on massdrop. The difference between the two models are 350 dollars and a 10 cent of felt againist the back of the driver...


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Webinar - Managing Entitlements with Oracle Identity Manager
by Deborah Volk on September 15th, 2009
To showcase some of the challenges and solutions of managing entitlements' lifecycle, we're putting on a webinar. The topic of entitlement management is broad so we're going to focus on what we think has the highest value proposition to the business - entitlement attestation. We're going to demo some of the design patterns for fine-grained attestation as implemented in Oracle Identity Manager. Take a look at our entitlement blogs and our whitepaper (registration required) for background information.
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The Facts About Continuous Glucose Monitoring
With the commercial availability of continuous glucose monitoring devices, we've entered a new era of diabetes care, says Howard Wolpert, M.D., Director of the Joslin Diabetes Center Insulin Pump Program.
While you go about your daily activities, continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) "reads" your glucose levels throughout the day and night. It gives you a window into the patterns of blood glucose highs and lows after eating different foods, activity and insulin, and allows you to gain better control.
- Can tell if blood glucose is rising or falling, indicating a possible need to treat
- An alarm sounds if blood glucose goes too high or too low
- Can improve diabetes control with a lower risk of lows
- Doesn't replace the finger stick: you still need to do a meter reading for accuracy
- Information overload: requires training and skill in diabetes management
- Costly: not yet covered by most insurances
Learning Curve
The sensor for CGM is an ultra-thin needle you insert under the skin, which transmits blood glucose measurements to a receiver, where they are displayed. You need to replace the sensor every three to seven days. You will also need to learn to align the monitor's sensor with your meter and understand the "lag" time difference between their readings.
Joslin has started classes for adults considering CGM and for those who have purchased one and want to learn how to use it. "We expect interest in using these devices will continue to grow," Wolpert says. "Especially when insurance starts to cover more of their costs."
For a schedule of upcoming programs and to make an appointment, please call (617) 264-2767.
Page last updated: November 07, 2019


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"Bee Season is a profound delight, an amazement, a beauty, and is, I hope, a book of the longest of seasons."
—Jane Hamilton, author of A Map of the World and The Book of Ruth
"Myla Goldberg's Bee Season is a bittersweet coming-of-age in which wise little Eliza Naumann's quirky passion for spelling bees unites and divides her family while revealing universal truths about the often crippling pain of love."
—Martha McPhee, author of Bright Angel Time
"There is such joy and pain thrumming inside Myla Goldberg's spelling bees! She delicately captures one family's spinning out by concentrating equally on the beauty and the despair. Bee Season is a heartbreaking first novel."
—Aimee Bender, author of The Girl in the Flammable Skirt
"In a story told with unique delicacy and brave inventiveness, a young girl, innocent and all-knowing, learns how much there is to lose, and what it takes to win."
—Elizabeth Strout, author of Amy and Isabelle


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The New American
by Alex Newman
Even as the European Union continues to pursue ever-closer "integration" in the name of "global governance," Obama is now working to form a "Trans-Atlantic partnership" between the U.S. government and the EU under the guise of a so-called "free trade" agreement. Formally announced in the United States during the president's State of the Union address, the highly controversial deal — a scheme that has been under discussion since before the current administration came to power — is expected to take at least 18 months to complete. It also has the backing of both Big Business and Big Labor.
The "Transatlantic Partnership," of course, is just one of the major sovereignty-threatening international schemes being pursued by the Obama administration simultaneously — closer North American integration and the so-called "Trans-Pacific Partnership" are two of the most prominent efforts. The latest plot, though, has far-reaching, global implications that critics argue represent a serious threat to America and freedom. If the U.S.-EU deal ends up becoming reality, the regulatory regime governing the new bloc, which accounts for about half of global GDP, would become the de-facto standard-setting entity for the entire planet.
"To boost American exports, support American jobs and level the playing field in the growing markets of Asia, we intend to complete negotiations on a Trans-Pacific Partnership," Obama said during his SOTU speech. "And tonight, I am announcing that we will launch talks on a comprehensive Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with the European Union — because trade that is free and fair across the Atlantic supports millions of good-paying American jobs."
Vice President Joe Biden, meanwhile, hinted at the plan even earlier, and since at least 2007, governments on both sides of the Atlantic have been formally working on the scheme. The New American magazine first warned of EU-U.S. integration in a 2009 in-depth cover story by author James Perloff, who concluded that the economic alliance would eventually and inevitably lead to a political merger.
More recently, critics of the "partnership" have also blasted the proposed plan, highlighting everything from concerns over national sovereignty to the fact that supposed "free trade" deals tend to be less about real free trade and more about transnational regulation of commerce by unaccountable bodies. The so-called NAFTA "tribunals" that overrule American laws and courts represent just one example of the dangers of "integration," according to opponents of the plan. The World Trade Organization (WTO) is another.
"Obama's open discussion of the two-oceans TPP and TAP free trade agendas during his recent SOTU attests to the persistence of globalists," noted celebrated author and WorldNetDaily investigative reporter Jerome Corsi, who has played a key role in exposing the myriad plots to subvert American sovereignty using international "trade" regimes. Dr. Corsi also offers some of the history and background behind the latest plot: "The Transatlantic economic integration plan was originated in 1939 by a world government advocate who sought to create a Transatlantic Union as an international governing body."
Among other measures, the agreement being worked out between the Obama administration and EU negotiators would seek to "harmonize" regulations between Europe and the United States. In simpler terms, American citizens and U.S. companies would end up being governed by rules developed and even implemented by supranational authorities — not elected officials who are accountable to the people. Because the U.S. economy, combined with Europe, represents almost half of the world's economic output, the new transatlantic regulatory regime would ensure that companies around the globe would have to comply with the new scheme, too; at least if they wanted to sell goods or services in the bloc.
The "Trans-Atlantic Grand Bargain," as the bold plot was touted in a recent New York Times editorial, would aim to reduce or eliminate some remaining trade barriers. However, tariffs on trade between the United States and Europe average just four percent. Reducing those figures further, of course, could easily be accomplished without ceding even more policy control and national sovereignty to unaccountable international entities.
Instead of worrying about tariffs, however — as supporters and opponents of the plan have both stated — the real goal of the emerging Atlantic union would be to do what the EU has already done to its 27 formerly sovereign nations: centralize authority in the hands of international bureaucrats at the expense of national sovereignty and individual liberty under the guise of promoting trade. In Europe, that has already happened, and now, even the Russian government is being brought into the fold.
As The New American has documented extensively, the vast majority of "laws" governing Europe today already come from Brussels — even with the EU widely considered illegitimate among Europeans — as opposed to national parliaments accountable to citizens. If Obama and his allies pushing the transatlantic scheme get their way, some or even all of those "laws" and regulations might someday be applied in the United States.
In a joint statement attributed to Obama, European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and European Commission President José Manuel Barroso, a former Maoist revolutionary, the top officials on both sides of the Atlantic said they were "pleased to announce" that the EU and the U.S. government were initiating "negotiations on a Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership." Noting that the "transatlantic economic relationship" is already the world's largest, the officials touted jobs, investment, and trade as the key motivations behind the scheme. So-called "sustainable development" will also be part of the effort, documents show.
"We are committed to making this relationship an even stronger driver of our prosperity," the three officials claimed in a controversial press statement released in mid-February by the Obama administration and the EU, using terms that have become standard whenever governments are promoting otherwise-unpopular policies. "Through this negotiation, the United States and the European Union will have the opportunity not only to expand trade and investment across the Atlantic, but also to contribute to the development of global rules that can strengthen the multilateral trading system."
Unsurprisingly, opponents of the scheme have already started to speak out forcefully. However, opposition to the transatlantic plan is facing a herculean adversary: a network of well-funded and well-connected think tanks like the Atlantic Council and the powerful, global government-promoting Council on Foreign Relations; Big Business; Big Labor; the "mainstream" media; members of Congress in the establishment wing of both parties; and more. The globalist CFR, in particular, appears to be at the forefront pushing the transatlantic integration effort.
"You have for the first time in Europe a clear commitment, not only in Brussels but among the major leaders in the national capitals, that this is an economic priority for the European Union," CFR Senior Fellow Edward Alden was quoted as saying in the Fiscal Times. "The Canadians are doing a certain amount of our work for us, because a lot of these issues are being hammered out in the Canada-EU negotiations, which are close to conclusion." The CFR also touts the integration schemes — within North America and across the Atlantic — all over its websites.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, meanwhile, has also jumped on the bandwagon, urging Obama and policymakers to act boldly on the controversial agreement with the EU. "For the sake of jobs and growth, it's time to forge a bold, new trade pact with Europe," explained chamber Chairman Thomas Donohue. "The stars are finally aligned."
Labor unions, meanwhile, despite having largely opposed such "free trade" schemes in recent decades, are lining up behind the transatlantic scheme as well, hoping to use it to score more European-style government favors for Big Labor in the United States. Multiple prominent unions have publicly voiced their support for closer alignment between U.S. and EU standards on labor laws, with the U.S. government, of course, expected to follow Europe's lead in terms of highly regulated, rigid labor markets that economists say stifle growth, damage the economy, and, ultimately, hurt the workers themselves.
"People in labor see this as an opportunity, not as a threat," senior director George Kohl with the Communications Workers of America (CWA) was quoted as saying in The Hill about the transatlantic plot, one of several major union figures cited in the article offering support for the plan. "Now we get to benchmark against a more progressive economy and raise up labor engagement here in the United States."
At the same time as he seeks to forge a union between the U.S. government and the EU, Obama is also pursuing more "integration" with governments and dictatorships in the Asia-Pacific region through the so-called "Trans-Pacific Partnership." That scheme, which includes the communist regime ruling over Vietnam as a member, has also been blasted by critics as a threat to national sovereignty and even Internet freedom. The New American has documented and exposed many of the dangers in recent years, too, but Obama wants it complete by the end of the year.
Meanwhile, closer to home, the U.S. government and its counterparts in Mexico and Canada continue pushing closer "integration" in North America as well — a highly controversial effort that critics and supporters have both said is aimed at eventually creating a "North American Union." Documents released by WikiLeaks confirmed that top officials in all three governments and corporate bosses were working largely under the radar to advance a merger in everything from military to monetary affairs. Again, the CFR's fingerprints are all over the plot.
While opposition to globalist integration schemes is growing, the trend toward ever-more ambitious and numerous "free trade" regimes is accelerating as well. Critics say it is time to restore U.S. sovereignty completely — not create even more entangling alliances, which the Founding Fathers warned against on more than a few occasions. Withdrawing from NAFTA, the UN, and the various other international entities that continue to usurp illegitimate authority would be a good start. Whether U.S. lawmakers will finally put the brakes on the plots, however, depends largely on the American people waking up to the threat in time.
Via The New American


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Here's an executive summary and link roundup for the Procter & Gamble Digital Hack Night that happened last night.
Disclosure: I don't work for P&G (I work for another CPG company, Combe). My interest is purely in learning how other CPG companies are using social media. Also, it's a good cause: I bought a couple of t-shirts to support it.
Click on the links above each quoted item to go to that person's website.
Procter & Gamble Co. paired 40 digital media and agency executives with 100 of its North American marketing directors in a contest to sell Tide T-shirts for charity last night as its much-awaited "Digital Hack Night" became a four-hour reality show aired largely in social media. (…) Fewer than 150 media and marketing people leaning heavily on their social-media friends and followers, resorting to big-name incentives and spending a total of about $4,000 on digital media can sell more than 2,000 T-shirts at $20 a pop for charity."
"So despite what I do for a living–work with companies to share the benefits of social media–I haven't ever been asked to pitch product, or prove via my own means that social media gets stuff done. Until today."
"I'm admittedly the most cynical analyst about social media and its measurable value to marketers. BUT, participating in this event is making me a believer. In 60 minutes through networking, well targeted ads, SMS messaging, and viral videos we have generated 1200 hits for a site that didn't even exist before 5pm tonight. We are tracking at about a 5-7% conversion rate…not bad. The other thing that is happening here is that we are adapting our marketing strategy based on feedback from people who are responding to our viral outreach. How often does that happen in a traditional marketing environment?"
"The teams that broke their groups down into smaller groups around specific strategies were able to test more ideas more easily and quickly, focus on the ones that did work and drop the ones that did not gain traction. (…) There was an amazing dashboard in every room that listed sales, site visits and conversion rate for each team with a Tide Twitter Feed running beneath this information."
"As the doors opened to our War room, the first thing I did was crack open the laptop and continue prepping my network while I sized up the challenge. P&G employees were embeded with every team and watching everything we did. I first summized that there was not enough information on the page where we were asking for people to buy shirts and so I quickly started writing a blog post with the information of who the charity was, where you could buy the shirts along with some popular Q&As. The post was done in less than 20 minutes to the surprise of some of the P&Gers and I didn't use the media they provided because the files needed reformatting. A big lesson learned was the power of speed in this space. 4 hours is not a lot of time."
"At the end of the evening, P&G's CMO Marc Pritchard remarked that in the future, all employees should get involved in activating connections similar to what had just been witnessed.
The significance of that idea is staggeringly huge. This is a company with 138,000 employees starting to realize the value from having all of its constituents connected and activated. They're also learning about new tools to change the process of engagement. Events like "Digital Night" help recalibrate the company's mindset.
P&G is taking steps to make social business a reality."
Speaking of Peter Kim, I should acknowledge that to create this executive summary I cribbed liberally from his list of links on his blog, here. Nobody does link roundups better than Peter.
"Marketers looking to access people's personal social networks must think long and hard about what they're asking those networks to do and whether the influencers have social currency they can provide ( a great cause, a great deal, or insider knowledge). Without that your effort is likely to feel like shilling and get very little pick up.
Personal networks trump paid placements. (…) cultivating deep relationships with key influencers will reap greater rewards than spray and pray. Don't simply put out a message hoping it will get pick up: identify the key players in your market place and the value your product or service brings to their readers.. (…) Can't identify your value-add? You're probably not going to get very far.
Social media is a full time commitment. (…) those of us for whom social isn't our sole focus were left in the dust by those who do it for a living. (…) don't think you're going to make an impact asking your current digital marketing manager to add Twittering and blogging to their current job description. Figure out what your role should be in the social media space and staff with people knowledgeable and connected who thrive on contributing to and participating in that space.
Suspicion runs rampant. (…) Anyone who thinks corporate America is welcome at the social party hasn't been paying a lot of attention. Corporate messages and their bearers are viewed with suspicion and in some cases, derision. Overcoming it takes patience, information and most importantly truly good intentions at the root of your efforts.
You can't please all the people all the time. (…) Take time to plan for worst case scenarios: how could your intentions be misconstrued and how and when do you respond? Accept that you will never be welcomed by all but with a good faith effort, honesty, transparency and a long term commitment you can at least get a chance to tell your side of the story."
"Here are some of my quick learning take a ways:
- Many of the P&G folks' thought the first task was to figure out the messaging of the campaign, where as the external folks just dived right in in plain English.
- The social web folks jumped on their networks first without necessary realizing the impact and focused on a long tail one-to-one approach figuring that network effects would take over.
- The P&G folks understood the need to identify where to get the biggest bang for their buck.
- The speed nature of the exercise brought out some incredible creativity. I had a sense that this freedom was very liberating for the P&G folks once they got into it. Some of my teammates quickly brainstormed a quick rap [yeah-it's dorky, but they did it without planning or thinking about it too much. We even got the team at Pandora to write a catchy little ditty. [Thanks Tim. It arrived a bit late, but kudos to them for jumping in. Compare that to the month long planning cycles most companies go through.
- The P&G folks were often very process oriented and the invitees where comfortable with more chaos – meeting somewhere in the middle brought out the best.
- Even the "digerati" who understand the principles of the social web stepped over the line a bit in the exuberance of the moment – to me this is a cautionary tale about the future of "influencers" and everyone's personal understanding of their relationships, networks and personal brand. Just as in the real world you are judged by your actions – so too are you judged online. Remember – Google is now the long tail of reputation.
- The need for a different set of skills and expertise – teams needed a human connector to bring it all together and a catalyst to kick it off. I see this as a growing skill set in business as a result of the social web. Think Community Manager meets Senior Executive."
"The P&G Digital Event was an internal training exercise for 100 or so of our senior marketing leaders. We wanted to create a hands-on event for them to see first-hand what Social Media is all about (…) beyond buzzwords and shiny objects like Twitter, the Long Tail, or CGM.We hoped to see our leaders come away with several realizations but a couple I'll mention relevant to my comments include:
- Social Media is mainstream. Facebook, Twitter, etc aren't just for college kids or geeks. It is being used by the young and old, by the geeks and the Soccer Moms (or Mommy Bloggers) alike.
- But despite being mainstream, it's not one size fits all and you need to build trust to have a conversation.
- And with all that said, the first step is listening in social media.
It is the last point I really want to speak to. As I've followed the conversation, it looks like some have thought we were "having a one night stand" with Social Media. That isn't the case at all. There are many P&Gers that are active in Social Media – as well as many of our brands. We wanted the event to help support those that aren't as active see first hand that you have to be wired differently than traditional marketing efforts to be successful in the space.
Every P&G marketer involved woke up the next morning having seen firsthand a world that is different than the world they know and that digital is having an impact on people's lives in new ways."
For a sense of what it was like while it was happening, check out this Twitter feed.
Dissenting Opinions
"The problem is charities are being used to get people over the ickiness of marketing for gigantic corporations. (…) even as a marketing exercise, the lessons it is teaching the world's largest advertiser is social media is a great place to broadcast stuff."
Tom Foremski (Former FT Journalist)
"It's like the hackers that create botnets of thousands of infected PCs and then use them to broadcast millions of spam messages. Can you create a human botnet army? Or a Twitnet army?"
While I generally think this was a great idea, I'll add two dissenting questions of my own:
- If all these social media micro-celebrities combined were only able to sell about $4,000 worth of merchandise for a great cause from a huge brand, what does that say about the "power" of social media?
- If we define the Tide event as a marketing success (and not just a learning success), how can it be replicated and built on
Nick Paris echoed these questions in his comments on Brian Morrissey's blog:
"150 determined salespeople sold 2000 shirts in four hours? That's 13 each. I've seen better results from bake sales. (…) It's great P&G wants to help employees understand. But, as a learning exercise, you put 40 invitees into crisis mode to sell T-shirts for four hours? Is frenzied Tweeting the behavior you want to impress on clients as how you work for them?"


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JR 5/17/2010 07:00:00 PM Tweet Edit
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Celtics has to win the 2nd game for KG's birthday present!
I love the calm and assertive vibe I get from the team. I really think if Rondo and KG get more offensively involved we can take this second game and really command this series.
I jus think that Celtics has to continue playing great unselfih defensive basketball 2nite with everyone playing there part to ensure that we continue leading the series and Rondo especially to shine as usual cause he's the hottest thing in the NBA now despite wat the haters say...GO CELTICSSSSSSSSS
ah forgot HAPPYBDAY K.G