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Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Run Away! Instinct of Survival
Definition: A bicycle is a single-seat, human powered, two wheeled vehicel with a wheel diameter not in excess of 27 inches. No mopeds, mini-bikes, motorbikes or motor scooters.
I was particularly incensed by the draconian wheel diameter limitation, to which I have the following reply:
Also, what's that crap about a bicycle only having one seat? Are they trying to tell me I can't ride the train with my "retambent?"
That's some bullshit right there. I'd threaten to take by business elsewhere, but the Long Island Railroad's rules are even worse:
Types of Bicycles: Single rider bicycles only; No tandem, motorized, or three wheeled bikes; no protrusions which could cause injury or damage. Maximum bicycle dimensions are 80" long x 48" high. Bikes must be clean and free of excessive dirt and grease at all times. Cyclist mus have a suitable elastic cord to secure the bike on the train.
That "free of excessive dirt and grease at all times" thing is a total dealbreaker, because each and every one of my bicycles is filthy at all times. Never trust anybody with a clean bicycle. It means they're hiding something and most likely suffer from Lady Macbeth syndrome. Who has the cleanest bicycles? Roadies. And they're all on drugs. Think about it. Also, the "no protrusions which could cause injury or damage" thing is kind of ridiculous, since pretty much every part of a bicycle is a protrusion which can cause injury or damage, and I have the scabs on my shins to prove it. If you remove every dangerous protrusion from a bicycle, you wind up with this:
No thank you.
By the way, yesterday I mentioned bicycles and the apocalypse, and a reader was kind enough to forward the following article:
I'm reading some after-the-electromagnetic pulse disaster novels where the electric grid has collapsed. Lots of people walking home or fleeing home on foot. In the vast majority of these novels there is no mention of any means of human transportation between a car and walking. So some guy has to walk home hundreds or thousands of miles across a post-apocalyptic landscape to get back to his family. Every person he comes across either is on foot or has some Mad Max truck fuel. What's with that?
In my opinion, the answer to this is very simple: Most Americans would rather perish than ride a bicycle. It's a fate worse than death. Therefore, if you're going for realism in your post-apocalyptic fiction naturally you're going to omit them. Maybe--maybe--you have a scene in which someone's getting attacked by some post-nuclear zombies, and he looks at a bicycle, then he looks at the zombies, then he looks back at the bicycle, and finally instead of fleeing on it he surrenders himself to the zombies and lets them eat him alive. Even in real-life disasters people only ride bicycles for as long as they have to and not a second more. Sure, after Supercane Hurristorm Sandy there was a temporary uptick in bike commuters in New York City, but vastly more people chose to wait on line for gas for 12 hours instead. I'd wager that most Sandy bike commuters pretend it never happened, like some ill-advised drunken liaison or that one time they ate horse in Belgium.
It is worth mentioning though that there was a shopping cart in Cormac McCarthy's "The Road," and it is pretty easy to graft a bike onto one of those:
Naturally though they didn't, because it would have diluted the effect of the shopping cart as a metaphor for consumerism.
Speaking of survival, I've recently been coming to terms with how ill-suited to it I really am. In particular, like many cyclists, I am physically completely useless without a bicycle. Sure, at any given time I can manage a hundred mile ride without too much trouble or preparation, but once you take that bike away I'm utterly helpless. More to the point, I can't run. At all. This is pathetic, since running is our most basic means of danger avoidance. Sure, maybe if a lunatic came at me the burst of adrenaline might carry me for a block or two, but what about a post-apocalyptic scenario where mutants have already stolen my bicycle and my own two feets are my only remaining mode of transport? Shouldn't I at least be able to manage a brisk interborough trot in the interest of self-preservation?
Therefore, in a sad burst of stereotypical midlife shame over my body's depressing lack of functionality, I've resorted to running every now and again, during which I listen exclusively to this:
Sure, there were times in the past when I would run every now and again under the delusion that it would help me in cyclocross (it didn't, because when you suck, you suck, and I suck) but now I've been doing it just to do it, and I'm concerned about two things: 1) My knees possibly falling off, because they hurt; and 2) One day accidentally doing a triathlon. Obviously, it's that second one that's the scariest. Now don't get me wrong, I certainly don't plan to ever do a triathlon intentionally, but what happens if through no fault of my own or some bad planning I end up riding, swimming, and running all on the same day? Right now I feel like I'm messing around with two out of three ingredients in a triathlon, and if that third one falls into the mix somehow it will become volatile and I'll perish in an explosion of tri-dorkitude.
Still, the fact is that as the years go by you do all sorts of things you never thought you'd do, like running, or spraypainting your bald spot with barbecue grill paint, or participating a Gran Fondo--which I did last fall to my lasting shame. Even so, it's very unlikely that I'll do the Gran Fondo New York, though I did just receive a press release informing me that it's now the Campagnolo Gran Fondo New York:
The Gran Fondo New York is of course most famous for the fact that they tested for drugs last year and caught some sad Fred doping. It also costs $250, and between you and me, for only $175 I'll be happy to take you on the same route. Sure, you won't have a state-of-the-art timing chip, but there will be numerous "shaming climbs" during which I remind you of how badly you suck. (Provided I can keep up with you, which I almost assuredly can't.) Also, while I don't actually have drug testing equipment, you're more than welcome to pee in a cup anyway. Best of all, each participant in my gran Fondo gets a jersey. Unfortunately, it's this one, and you'll have to order it from Nashbar and pay for it yourself.
And if I get dropped or simply decide to turn around and go home, there will be no refunds.
Lastly, on the subject of survival, subway deaths have been in the news quite a bit recently, and due to the public outcry there is now talk of installing sliding doors on the platforms:
Before we get to the MTA's plans, let's quickly look at the stats you are most interested in—how often do people actually get hit by the subway. And the answer, in 2012 at least, was 141 times. Of those incidents 51 were people who "contacted a moving train while on the platform," 54 were incidents were a passenger was "stuck on the tracks," 33 were suicides or attempted suicides and three were cases were a customer fell between cars.
Interestingly, the MTA is considering a safety measure that would cost $1 billion. Meanwhile, 176 cyclists and pedestrians were killed in traffic in New York City during fiscal year 2012. Practically none of which were suicides, though arguably many of them were homicides, even if the police dismissed them with their standard response of "no criminality." I suppose to some degree bike lanes and pedestrian plazas are the equivalent of sliding doors in that they are meant to make the roads safer, though I still find it odd there's not a similar public outcry over the dangers of private cars.
I'm surprised nobody has suggested that subway riders should wear helments.
139 comments:
- 3G said...
- January 29, 2013 at 12:44 PM
Ich bin immer noch kein Roboter !
- January 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
- recumbent conspiracy theorist said...
Ding Ding!
6061 goleus
- January 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
No comments?
- January 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
fucking robot shit.
- January 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
- babble on said...
goooooood morning!
- January 29, 2013 at 12:46 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 12:47 PM
- Christopher Ryan said...
Twenty minutes into The Walking Dead, the sheriff is on a bike, stumbling toward his home. Then you never see one again.
- January 29, 2013 at 12:50 PM
- Garrett@UncommonWares said...
Dude, Spoiler!
- January 29, 2013 at 12:52 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 12:53 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 12:54 PM
- babble on said...
Thanks for reminding me how hopeless I am without my bike, Snob.
- January 29, 2013 at 12:54 PM
and that his how my fat-ass collapses before i reach the podium.
- January 29, 2013 at 12:59 PM
Top twenty and read; and how do I sign up for Gran Fondo WCRM?
- January 29, 2013 at 1:02 PM
- ken e. said...
- January 29, 2013 at 1:02 PM
So, you've skipped right past shopping for a folder to running. Oh, the humanity of it all!
ipnsmitt 50
- January 29, 2013 at 1:04 PM
Do the tri, Snob, do it!!!
PS I think the Google police may have stolen my underwear (photo). It was there Sunday and now it is MIA.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:05 PM
747 sit us me. Of course, I could be just making that up. (ZOD)
- January 29, 2013 at 1:09 PM
- Mike in Dallas said...
Stephen King's characters in "The Stand" make use of bicycles to get out of Dodge. In fact, Larry smacks himself in the head when he realizes that he could have ridden a bicycle and be on the Maine coastline already instead of walking himself into exhaustion...
- January 29, 2013 at 1:09 PM
- mikeweb said...
frilly, the Google are known to filch lady's unmentionables.
babble, glad to see you're feeling better.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:10 PM
The reason you never see bicycles in the post apocalytic movies is the the characrters realize that it is harder to get shot whilst huffing and puffing and staggering from side to side down the road that it is to get shot whilst riding in a straight line and an even pace. Although Rob Lowe and that blonde goofball from Coach who voices Sponge Bob's friend did ride a bike cross country in the movie version of Stephen King's "The Stand"....Oh my Lord I need to read a book...
- January 29, 2013 at 1:10 PM
- recumbent conspiracy theorist said...
Wolf And Iron by Gordon Dickson has the main character headed west by mountain bike if my memory is correct. The book came out in 1993 and I read it around that time. That was ages ago.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:15 PM
- leroy said...
I only run when it's too cold to ride.
No wonder I hate running.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:16 PM
- leroy said...
I read a book once.
I can see how some folks might like that sort of thing.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:17 PM
now that you're a runner you should consider a trip back to brooklyn for the semi annual prospect park duathlon. Every march and september. It's Fredtastic and at least it's not a tri. A good opportunity to remind yourself you can suck at two sports. it's fucking hard to make out these anti robot codes
- January 29, 2013 at 1:18 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Mmm, there's nothing better than a nice Belgian horse sausage.
Also, I think the big non-evil doers might be using the commentariate to help with the ocr robots for streetspy. For example, my robot challenge says "ichretra 600", but entering "ichretra 800" works too.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Didn't they ride motorcycles in The Stand? I seem to recall a bit in the book about how they had to use the overflow valves to siphon gas at the filling stations. Although, in their defense, there was no line, with everyone being dead and all.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Top XXV -ish
- January 29, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Cool town, evening in the city
Dressing so fine and looking so pretty
Cool Fred, looking for a kitty
Gonna look in every corner of the city
Till I'm wheezing like a bus stop
Running up the stairs, gonna meet you on the rooftop
- January 29, 2013 at 1:20 PM
- mikeweb said...
Tri-dorkitude, a.k.a. TDT, is the most explosive compound known to mankind. Also to mankini.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:20 PM
i'm a long time runner (slow) and cyclist (slower) and i have to admit that as annoying as runners are cyclists, roadies specifically, are considerably more annoying. Now that you're a runner you'll have to share your thoughts on the subject in a future blog. I generally find runners to be just annoying dorky A-types, whereas roadies are inappropriately aggressive in addition of being annoying dorky A-types. probably it's the fact that they are on a bike so they can't be as easily chased down and beaten up for being an asshole to a total stranger.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:24 PM
- Comment deleted said...
I've resorted to the shameful practice of running, too, as it is a more compact (time-wise) workout. I kill myself in about an hour, rather than the three it takes to get really uncomfortable on a bike.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:25 PM
I don't wear a helmet on the subway, but sometimes I show it off.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Mike in Dallas, I was totally thinking about that and then you went and said it.
The blue hand-grip on that ostrich bike could easily go into your butthole so that shoots a hole in your theory. And your butthole. Ergons would help.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM
Cipo Industries on the heels of the smashing marketing success of our ladies line of ciopdexx women's cycling kit wear is proud to announce the introduction of CipoGoggles which allow the viewer to view ladies wearng cipodexx clothing sans said sportswear.
$499.99 at most discerning cycle supply botiques and porno dildotoriums.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM
Anon @ 1:24 PM
"whereas roadies are inappropriately aggressive in addition of being annoying dorky A-types."
It's the dope. True Freds dope just like their King.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:34 PM
where's the sign up sheet for the bikesnob grandefondue? who do i make my check out to?
- January 29, 2013 at 1:34 PM
- mikeweb said...
After t-bonng a car on my bicycle at the end of the last millennium and waking up in the E.R., I found it 'psychologically difficult' to ride in the city for about a year. I went back to running for the first time since I was about 13 and had figured out that riding is more fun. A few months of that cured me of my cycling anxieties better than years of therapy could have.
My girlfriend has been wanting to get back into the gym routine for a while now. I recently suggested that, even though I loath it, we should do some running together, as a means of getting fitter and having a shared activity. I would've suggested cycling, but she is scared to death of riding on the streets.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM
The first part of the blogging post answers the last part. The deaths by subway get attention (and deaths by car do not) for the same reason that bikes get ignored, and walking is associated with civilizational collapse, in those post-apocalypse stories. To wit: cars can do no wrong, and life without them isn't life, or at least real American life.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:38 PM
- Comment deleted said...
Here's a fun fact about Amtrak (apropos almost nothing): you may carry firearms and ammunition in your checked luggage, but not archery equipment.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:41 PM
- Olle Nilsson said...
Never trust anybody with a clean bicycle Gold, Snobby, Gold. I'm taking that one to the grave. That and Do not put anything in my flower box
Passed one of those shopping cart bikes once. The rider yelled out to me "weird bike!". I was on a Brompton, so I guess I could see his point of view.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:42 PM
- DB said...
Hey! Now you can write a column in Runner's World, too!
Not to mention RunningSnobNYC.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:47 PM
Comment deleted - yeah that old rule is one of America's earliest attempts at racial profiling to keep terrorists off trains in the 19th century.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:48 PM
There's something wrong with my seat... you guys go ahead.
- January 29, 2013 at 1:52 PM
WCRM Tri-Fondo NY, $350.
There, just doubled your profits, you're welcome.
As Prad Bitt says "Amerika is a bizness, now PAY ME!"
- January 29, 2013 at 1:57 PM
- recumbent conspiracy theorist said...
Don't exclude race walking from your repertoire el Snobo. Much lower impact than running.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:00 PM
They have those plexiglass subway partitions in China. Seems to work well, but of course the gov't doesn't give a shit about public discourse. On the flip side, people ride and drive aggressively out there and people are apparently mauled--not mulled--all the time.
I don't know what my point is other than to share about my experience.
It annoys me when people do that.
The main reason people don't ride in the apocolypse must be one of the following:
1. Lack of snow bikes to have true off road capabilities.
2. Wanted to ride but couldn't find a helment.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:00 PM
I'd use PEDs if I could find them... Unfortunately the only thing i'm worse at than riding my bike is finding drugs... and the internet... and maybe love making... and changing a tube... and getting enough fiber... and parenting (I don't have any kids but still)...
- January 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM
- Comment deleted said...
RCT - it's very admirable, the way you just don't give a shit about looking like a dork. Recumbents and race-walking -- now that's a coolness perfecta!
- January 29, 2013 at 2:02 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 2:06 PM
I've got $175. Do you take paypal? Or can my Nigerian cousin wire it to you? All I need is your bank account info and we're all set.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:07 PM
- CommieCanuck said...
No protrusions? But what if I'm REALLY excited about public transit.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:10 PM
That's not a shopping cart; that's a perambulating wire basket, silly!
- January 29, 2013 at 2:10 PM
I advocate mandatory helmet use for the subway, but only on the platform, not on the train.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:13 PM
- CommieCanuck said...
$1B for safety doors.
$1B for armed security guards in schools.
$1B for kevlar footy pyjamas
...caring and treating for the insane..priceless, because zero is priceless.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM
I have a suggestion: subway riders should wear helments.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM
It's pronounced "helemt"
- January 29, 2013 at 2:19 PM
S.M. Stirling's Emberverse novels feature a good deal of bicycle use in the post-apocalypse.
I actually have a problem with it because in the later books, set 40 years after The Change destroys modern manufacturing, people still have working bearings and chains.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM
- Agravaine said...
Yeah, just finished a zombie book called Devil's Wake where the female lead character use a bike to cross a long distance 'much easier'. Yep, bike is soon replaced by a bus and siphoning gas.
decent if teenager-ish book though
- January 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM
- recumbent conspiracy theorist said...
@deleted, Nope I never tried the race walk thing. Just thought it might be something BSNYC/WCRM could easily do with his chicken suit on. But you're right I don't a give a shit.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:31 PM
- bk jimmy said...
That indignant cartoon guy is actually riding an old-time trike.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:36 PM
- CommieCanuck said...
Campagnolo Gran Fondo.
Without Campagnolo, you cannot make a $15,000 biek.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:38 PM
There was a rather good TV programme broadcast by the BBC in the 1970s entitled, "Survivors". It was set in a post plague world and I distinctly remember one of the characters nicking a bike, yes of course it was a road bike this was aeons before the knobbly tyred brigade appeared, and riding away on it. It sticks in my mind because the swine threw it over a wall when a tyre punctured. This vulnerability to punctures is probably why bikes don't feature much in older post-apocalypse fiction. Now that we have Schwalbe Marathons and kevlar liners we should see an increase in the No. of bikes in p-a fiction.
- January 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM
- Marcel Da Chump said...
Scranus of Fire
- January 29, 2013 at 3:07 PM
There's a recent book called Post-Apocalypse Dead Letter Office in which bike riders deliver letters after... well, it's not clear. The apocalypse, I guess that's clear, but what the apocalypse is isn't. Anyway, the book is about as exciting as it sounds.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:10 PM
Four quick comments:
1). There aren't any bikes in a post-apocalyptic world, because there is no place for smug people. They get eaten or killed first, just because they are smug.
2). The wooden bike with no protrusions will eventually develop splinters. I wonder if the paint contains lead?
3). The old timey bike is really a tricycle. And no trikes are allowed on the train. But I guess that's a distinction that doesn't make a difference. (My odd-ball brother recently bought a recumbant trike. He's going nowhere on that thing.)
4). If you can run and ride a bike, you can compete in a duathlon. It's a "special" multisport event for people who can't swim, i.e. it's for people who too dorky to be triathletes.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:14 PM
- bikesgonewild said...
...so there i was, out on a bike ride along the hudson river greenway whilst visiting nyc when i happened to look over towards the river & spot a poor dolphin caught up, entangled & trapped in a large piece of free floating fishing net...
...without thought to personal danger, i dropped the bike, dove into the murky depths, swam over & began the struggle to free the terrified little guy whilst we were carried along downstream by the current...
...finally achieving success & the chattering approval of my new little water borne buddy plus the applause of several cheering bystanders, i swam back to shore wherein once there, being chilled by the hudsons cold waters, i ran back upriver to collect my bike & began the long ride back downtown...
...so, the obvious moral here is that as much as one despises & makes fun of triathletes, be careful of your cruel words because triathlons sometimes just happen in real life...
...okay, okay, so i made this story up, it didn't really happen but i think i made my point, ya ???...
...was it the fact that i didn't choke & drown on a piece of crap in the dirty hudson that gave me away ???...the reality that the bystanders would a' been yelling & jeering ???...
..."...yo, bro...ya, i'm talkin' ta youse, wiseguy...bring 'at little fishy ova here...my uncle sal at da fish n' poultry ???...he'll give a couple bucks for 'at guy, ya ???..."...
...or were you laughing 'cuz you knew the bike would a' been gone before i hit the water ???...
...anyway, hey, i'm just sayin'...
- January 29, 2013 at 3:21 PM
- Unknown said...
Quote of the day "Who has the cleanest bicycles? Roadies. And they're all on drugs" Love it.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:22 PM
Hey Bikes GW,
and it wasn't a dolphin in a net. It was a condom (Hudson river trout)caught in some pantyhose.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:28 PM
- Tek-Ninja said...
S. M. Stirling is a Fantasy writer who has a pretty successful series about a post apocalypse America. A snippet from the synopsis is here:
"The survivors are those who adapt most quickly, either by making it to the country and growing their own crops—or by taking those crops from others by force. Chief among the latter is a former professor of medieval history with visions of empire, who sends bicycling hordes of street thugs into the countryside."
So, there are exceptions to Mad-Max stories! Bicycle hordes of street thugs!!! Imagine the horror! Unless you were one of those thugs, than imagine the power!
- January 29, 2013 at 3:32 PM
- PBateman said...
first, if you do a triathelon then SO HELP ME GOD i'm going to KILL MYSELF!!!! and i'll do it by RUNNING and throwing myself in front of a train.
Second, bully for you SNooBers for providing us with content that on most days primarily consists of complete and udder rubbish, but then on other days surprises with journalistic excellence.
I think that is an incredible point you make about the money that will go to some crazy subway barrierway contraption, whereas NO money or legal resources (legal like lawyers/judicial system, not legal like "she's 18 and loves to swallow") to protecting cyclist.
Very well done Sir. Very well done indeed.
(p.s. - udder rubbish is the dried creamy residue left on a nursing mothers nipples after a feeding)
- January 29, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Whew! I just caught up after reading the previous seven days of entries.
Let me catch my breath here...
Nippolini. Love It!!!
The David Byrne Urinal. Fucka Funny!!
German Ellens. Voom-Voom Vunderbarrr!
uditaxp 1736. Only if it doesn't make my balls itch.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Stating the obvious: ye olde 28 x 1 1/2" wheel diameter is larger than 27", so my Pashley Guv'nor would not be allowed on Metro-North Commuter Railroad, and I would have to ride it through everyday pre apocalyptic reality (given I live there which of course is not the case).
10 shooch !
- January 29, 2013 at 3:43 PM
- bikesgonewild said...
...@ flyover bc...hey, this was MY 'moral' story...
...you see what you see, i get to see what i wanna see, ya ???...
...besides, i was just tryin' to be chill for frilly chick & all those other deluded triathletes...
...ooops, sorry, frilly...
- January 29, 2013 at 3:44 PM
In Stephen King's novel The Stand, a key character (Nick) rides a bike across much of the US.
Nick, it turns out, is the Christ-like figure in the novel, who dies as a martyr for the others and comes back later as a ghost, all Obi-Wan-Kenobi ish.
Also, Steve Tilford is racing the cyclocross WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS at least you could have the blogular courtesy for a shout out.
- January 29, 2013 at 3:48 PM
- bikesgonewild said...
...why should we care if stephen king is riding cross worlds on his custom scranus ???...
- January 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM
Bikes GW
Fair enough. But that's how I knew the story was a fictional.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM
The cycle-shopping cart pic must be post-apol because the cart is empty.
The piano could be hooked up to a bike the same way as the shopping cart was. Then you can tool on down the highway smoking a cig and drinking a cuppo, while also playing the piano. I mean the guy in the vid did it (drank, smoked and played).
bikesgonewild@3:21: Chesley Sullenberger would have saved both of you.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM
Anon 3:48, a Christ-like figure? You mean like this?
- January 29, 2013 at 4:06 PM
I'm Scroticus
- January 29, 2013 at 4:13 PM
You should consider recumbent running.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:13 PM
William Devane in Testament is a kick-ass rider in an L.A. suburb who enjoys the heck out of life and bike riding and gets nuked by the R$%^skies. But there weren't any bikes after the bomb, though, so I don't know if it qualifies. It was a very touching movie.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:20 PM
- bikesgonewild said...
...flyover bc...i guess i coulda had it with me saving the two people in that plane that just crashed into the hudson on sunday but frankly, i'd rather save a dolphin...even if it's wearing a condom & pantyhose...
- January 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM
Had gowANUS cANAL Flipper VIII been wearing a Helment he would still be alive!
- January 29, 2013 at 4:25 PM
- bikesgonewild said...
...let's not lose track of the real issue here & i believe that would be that while it's okay to make fun of triathletes for their funny cloths & lousy bike handling skills (& prob'ly a lotta other stuff), we must accept them because they're almost like real people & we shouldn't forget that, ya ???...
...you can almost hear bob marley in the background, right ???...
..."...one world, one love..."...
...ya, that even includes tri-geeks...
- January 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM
That's way too kinky for me to wrap my mind around.
In my imagination, I've only saved a boatload of marooned cheerleaders. It was sort of like Gilligan's Island, except I was the only guy and the girls' luggage was lost at sea, and their clothes were in very ragged condition.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM
- PhilboydStunge said...
There are a bunch of knuckleheads with engineering personality disorder where I work who LOVE to discuss post-apocalyptic lifestyles. Mostly about guns and secret hideouts and guns. When I ask them about their vehicle choices I get blank stares from most. One guy launched into a description of his 3 cylinder turbo diesel pickup and how he will grow, harvest, process his own bio-fuel. None of them have ever even thought about a bicycle, because bicycles just aren't part of the fantasy. Kurt Vonnegut said that scifi and porn were both unreasonably optimistic; maybe post apocalyptic fantasy is too pessimistic to include sex or bikes?
- January 29, 2013 at 4:39 PM
My triathlon was the time I ran around Washington Square Park in the morning, then rode my bike to the East River and fished under the FDR near 23rd street and drank beer.
- January 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM
- babble on said...
Oh dear God, I've heard it all. My brother and his wife are spending a couple of months touring India, and today I received a letter detailing how her SheWee suffered catastrophic failure on a twelve hour train ride. EEEEEEWWWWWWWW.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:00 PM
- crosspalms said...
It's pre-apocalypse and we don't take care of the roads. I'm betting we'll be even more lax post-apocalypse. And since zombies don't use vehicles (they just shamble), a bike should be OK to outrun them. Just don't turn around to look at them and then fall down. Common mistake among runners. I think chamois cream will become scarce post-apocalypse, so maybe I'll invest in some. And food. No guns though. The people who sell the ammo will probably charge a lot -- like taking my guns away from me once they figure out I'm out of ammo. There's certainly a lot to think about.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:02 PM
- babble on said...
It's a slippery slope you're running down, dearest Snobbums. Careful. Before you know it, you'll be falling off your bike trying to unclit from your clitless pedals.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:02 PM
Hey, "bike salmon" gets borrowed yet again (without attribution):
- January 29, 2013 at 5:04 PM
One time I rode a cruiser from my hotel in Mexico across the street to the beach. At the beach I jumped in the ocean. Then I realized I was about to miss happy hour so I jogged over to the bar.
Bef careful out there - an accidental triathalon is a real thing.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:05 PM
- Unknown said...
Regarding the Bicycle-lessness of Post-Apocalypsia, I have a few questions to ask US citiziens here: http://domm.plix.at/bicycle/2012_11_bicycles_vs_zombies.html
- January 29, 2013 at 5:12 PM
- crosspalms said...
If you get travel insurance, I'm pretty sure you can be reimbursed for accidental triathlons.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:21 PM
The Bob Marley from the post-calypso world of Caribean music?
I suspect there are plenty of zombies in the post-calypso world.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:27 PM
Re: Babble's sister in law's SheeWee. Your peeps have some crazy adventures. How does a SheeWee suffer a catastrophic failure?
And, Babble, on a SheeWee related topic, how's your pink canoe?
- January 29, 2013 at 5:32 PM
- January 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM
Been mounting some new rear rubber on my nephews KTM 125.
Another reason for me not to get a fat tire bike.
I forgot how much fun it its.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:40 PM
- babble on said...
HAPPY!!! My pink canoe is very happy, thanks.
- January 29, 2013 at 5:45 PM
- babble on said...
re: the catastrophic failure... you don't want to know. really
thoopsy 3353
- January 29, 2013 at 5:48 PM
- Perico Delgado said...
Nice comment Comment deleted.
- January 29, 2013 at 6:51 PM
- Perico Delgado said...
Another nice comment. wow you guys are doing great today.
- January 29, 2013 at 6:54 PM
I am not a fucking robot...I'm a ZOMBIE!!!
- January 29, 2013 at 7:00 PM
Ummm, thanks, I think, bgw.
Delusional? Really?
We'll see if the Google cops yank my profile pic again!
- January 29, 2013 at 7:05 PM
- Grump said...
Snobby, I'd be happy to charge people $125 to ride a $25 century with me (10 people minimum)
- January 29, 2013 at 7:10 PM
This Irish lass I'm physically acquainted with. Just the dearest lass. Been married five times previous. I do get unlimited access to her pink coracle on occasion. Nice and roomy if ya catch me drift.
- January 29, 2013 at 7:23 PM
babble on'
At any point in your life were you equipped with a penis? Just curious.
- January 29, 2013 at 7:44 PM
- Unknown said...
The reason there is no bicycle riding after the Apocko'lips is because Strava will be down, so really, what's the point?
And dirty greasy people can ride the train but not bikes?
- January 29, 2013 at 7:52 PM
Hey, I read one of those S.M. Stirling books. Dies the Fire. The so-called "Change" had just happened. Definitely plenty of bikes mentioned. But also, in a move that betrays the author's probable sci-fi-fantasy-geek/S.C.A. origins, I noticed a lot more of the horseback with the swords and the archery and the chainmail and whatnot. Probably the main reason he decided to write about a future that so closely resembles the past in terms of technology, was to include all that stuff.
Referring to th'pocalypse as "the Change" made it easy to write, a few too many times in one book, lines like "My scranus is always itchy. Or WAS, before the Change." Or "People are always getting run over by the subway. Or DID, before the Change."
I'd still recommend it.
Know what else, I'm about to experimenting with totally blowing-off the fucking illegible numeric part of the KAP-TCHAW.
ro-EE feen-YAY
- January 29, 2013 at 8:22 PM
It worked, people. ROBOTS TAKE OVER NOW
- January 29, 2013 at 8:23 PM
Late to post because I'm a roadie and today's ride left my bike mighty schmutzig, but....get on it SNOB and organize a disorganized ride. Please waive the entry fee for all dopes or doped riders. You'll have a quite a crew, if you decide to indulge your audience.
- January 29, 2013 at 8:30 PM
- babble on said...
Dear Curious Kat,
Nope. Definitely not. But I have been known to accommodate a penis quite nicely. In fact, you might even say it's one of my favourite things, the penis.
- January 29, 2013 at 8:44 PM
Dammit babble! I'm trying to post something relevant, and now you've got me punching the clown.
- January 29, 2013 at 9:25 PM
- Allen said...
James Howard Kunstler writes a lot of post-apocolypse "speculative fiction" which he thinks is going to come true ANY DAY NOW. It's really good, fun to read because it shows people actually figuring shit out and making the best of it. In "World Made By Hand," he addresses the uselessness of the bike by pointing out that nobody will be able to get a tire or a tube. And the roads will be fucked (the badasses in his book ride horses). Seems to me that for the right incentives, people will find a way to make bike tires in their kitchen or garage After The Shit Comes Down. And we won't care much about the state of roads. But hey, he's the one writing the books.
- January 29, 2013 at 9:31 PM
It appears that some people think a pair of bike tires lasts about as long as a tank of gas. We would eventually use up all the bike tires if no one made more, but it's not exactly a high tech undertaking. Millions of people would starve first, so there would be plenty of tires to go around.
- January 29, 2013 at 9:39 PM
- leroy said...
Can someone help me settle a bet?
I say BGW said Frilly's undergarments were "fetching."
My dog says he said "fetch."
- January 30, 2013 at 12:20 AM
- bikesgonewild said...
...dammit, leroy...that dog of yours could get me in (further) trouble if i answer the question that settles the bet...
...holy shit, captcha...you're gonna get me in trouble too...
...'366 clicylt'...i mean, really ???...might as well just come out & say it...
- January 30, 2013 at 1:42 AM
WCRM, you've a fellow spirit in Robbie McEwen. This is from his autobiography that I just finished: "You see a lot of ex-professionals who never got over their careers, and I've got no plans whatsoever to be one of them. Other guys I've known who have retired have told me that, when the moment comes, be sure. Otherwise, you just end up talking about it a lot, pining for it, and the next thing you know you're entering triathlons."
- January 30, 2013 at 6:02 AM
Pump that Bump and make a Dump then your Stump is just a Lump.
- January 30, 2013 at 6:40 AM
If bgw wants to fetch my panties, he knows how to find me.
Now, Leroy, if it's your dog doing the fetching, please let him know I have StL County Animal Control on speed dial.
- January 30, 2013 at 11:38 AM
" I have been known to accommodate a penis quite nicely."
Are we talking upstairs, downstairs or both?
- January 30, 2013 at 12:02 PM
what is your position on otic?
- January 30, 2013 at 12:04 PM
- Sarah said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- January 30, 2013 at 9:40 PM
The book "One the Beach" is a classic post-apocalyptic novel where they ride bicycles to get around because gas is too precious. But it is set in Australia, not USA. I also do not recommend reading it unless you like stories where everyone dies in the end.
- January 30, 2013 at 9:47 PM
If your knees are killing you from jogging you might try fruit smoothies with flax seed oil and protein powder. Trail running is low impact too, and you don't have to breathe truck fumes and dodge pedestrians while as you go. Just a thought. I enjoy your blog. Cheers.
- January 31, 2013 at 9:14 AM
- jon wilson said...
Excellent information provide for us.....................thanks for sharing
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- February 1, 2013 at 5:46 AM
Bringing my old British roadster (635 diameter rims aka 700B) on Metro North, documenting their acceptance of this wheel size, and then getting the personnel responsible in deep shit for allowing it (aka not doing their job)!
- February 1, 2013 at 10:07 PM
No, please have a ride, spend th emoney on liability insurance and have people sign waivers, then just do what you want.
- February 1, 2013 at 10:26 PM
- Unknown said...
To get the best quote on Street Bike Insurance. visit our site for special discounts and rates for good riders with safe records on bikes.
- February 5, 2013 at 10:49 AM
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- March 23, 2013 at 9:43 AM
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- April 28, 2013 at 4:31 PM
- Mini Bikes Gas said...
No mopeds, mini-bikes, motorbikes or motor scooters. ... minibikesgas.blogspot.com
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- November 23, 2015 at 9:51 AM
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Menghilangkan Kutil Pada KemaluanTapi sayangnya kebanyakan yang terjadi, kutil tersebut akan kembali muncul setelah disembuhkan atau dihilangkan. Hal ini juga yang kemudian membuat banyak penderita yang beralih ke metode pengobatan yang lebih intensif seperti cryotherapy. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungklik disin
obat wasir herbal yang mujarabLada dapat menyebabkan wasir. Dikonsumsi dalam jumlah sedang, lada hitam tidak menyebabkan wasir. Tapi bagi sebagian orang, makanan pedas dapat menyebabkan gatal-gatal dan iritasi dubur.untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungsite kami
obat keluar nanah dari kelamin priaJika pada pasien sipilis biasanya akan ditemukan ruam-ruam merah di sekitar alat kelamin, namun tidak demikian dengan pasien kencing nanah. Mereka tidak akan mendapatkan ruam merah di sekitar kelamin, namun pada pasien pria gonore bisa menyebabkan lubang penis memerah dan membengkak.untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungsite kami
obat ambeien yg alami
- November 17, 2016 at 1:17 PM
- Unknown said...
خدماتنا متميزة عن غيرنا في مجال التسريبات سربات المياه والعوزال وحل بطرق سليمة دون التدمير فعندنا في شركة ركن البيت افضل يوجد افضل الفنين الممتزين في مجال التسربات والكشف عنها بدون اي مشاكل من خلال الطاقم التي تم تدريبه في شركة كشف تسربات المياه بالدمام فتعاملك معنا ستحصل علي خدمات متميزة
شركة كشف تسربات المياه بجدة
شركة كشف تسربات بجدة
شركة عزل خزانات بالرياض
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كشف تسربات المياه
- March 4, 2017 at 5:42 PM


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Teen Night
Teen Night for grades 6-12. Wii games, computer games, crafts, movies, book clubs, new books... Events change weekly.
Promoted by:
Vineyard Haven Public Library
Vineyard Haven Public Library
Venue Information:
Directions: 200 Main Street. Follow Main Street past the business district. It is on the left side of Main St. at the intersection of Greenwood.
Handicap Accessible

subset: commoncrawl


text:
As the first decade of the new century comes to an end, we asked a handful of LACMA staffers for their thoughts on the biggest stories of the last ten years, as they pertain to LACMA or to Los Angeles. We'll share their answers over the course of the week. First up, museum president Melody Kanschat.
With twenty-plus years under my belt at LACMA, coming up with a long "best of " list of great moments at the museum should be a piece of cake… but zeroing in on that "game-changing moment" is a little bit tougher. There is plenty of competition for the number one spot… the Klimt painting exhibition, the opening of BCAM, raising $200 million in the first phase of our capital campaign, serving nearly 1 million visitors to the King Tut exhibition… all great moments but none quite as institution-changing as the 2001 architectural competition to create a master plan for our campus.
If you knew LACMA in 2001 you'll remember that it was loved locally, had a growing collection, was known as a player nationally on the art exhibition circuit, and that it ranked fairly low when it came to its architecture and its international appeal. The Board of Trustees decided to take on architecture and international recognition all at once by hosting a highly publicized architectural competition. We set out to attract some of the world's foremost architects to look at our campus, buildings, collections, staff, and visitors and propose a master plan that would provide world-class facilities for a world-class collection and a growing world-wide audience.
I was lucky enough to be the staff person in charge of the competition and to witness firsthand how it was a game changer in LACMA's growth as an institution. The competition required that the staff begin to work together at an in-depth level to evaluate our facility needs and the growth potential in our programs and our collections; the Trustees had to investigate their own capacity regarding leadership, campaign donations, and their desire to promote LACMA on the worldwide stage; and the international art and architecture community had to begin to notice that the thirty-five-year-old encyclopedic art museum in Los Angeles had the potential to "run with the big dogs."
As the process unfolded, I saw architects Steven Holl, Daniel Libeskind, Rem Koolhaas, Thom Mayne, and Jean Nouvel wrestle with LACMA's problems and its tremendous potential, and I watched our staff, trustees, donors, members, and visitors energized with the spirit of self-awareness and of institutional change. In the end we did not build the building competition winner Rem Koolhaas envisioned, but we did build the collective vision (and a little buzz) that makes LACMA so compelling today. For me, that moment in 2001 will remain LACMA's best of the decade.
Melody Kanschat, President


text:
(NewsUSA) - Data from many studies suggest that the incidence of Alzheimer's disease is on the rise. However, many of the symptoms associated with early Alzheimer's disease are the same as those associated with hearing loss.
According to a recent study led by Frank R. Lin, MD, PhD, of Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, the risk of dementia increased among participants with at least a mild 25-decibel hearing loss. Participants with more severe hearing loss were most likely to be diagnosed with dementia -- and even Alzheimer's. The relationship between Alzheimer's and hearing loss should come as no surprise. After all, you can't remember what someone said if you didn't hear them say it.
Several symptoms are common to both Alzheimer's and untreated hearing loss. These symptoms include depression, anxiety, feelings of isolation, and problems talking and understanding what is being said. In addition, people with either Alzheimer's or unidentified hearing loss may have inappropriate responses to social cues, lower scores on tests of mental function, attitudes of denial, defensiveness or negativity and increased distrust of others' motives, even those of family and friends. Individuals with unidentified hearing loss may appear paranoid and excessively concerned that others are talking about them.
"Untreated hearing loss is a significant quality-of-life issue," said Sreek Cherukuri, MD, a board-certified ear, nose and throat physician based in Chicago, Ill. "It can cause marital and family strain, lead to social isolation, depression and anxiety. And the solution is so simple."
To help more people improve their lives by improving their hearing, Dr. Cherukuri designed the MDHearingAid, a comfortable, cost-effective way to improve hearing. "I could see no reason why we couldn't develop a quality hearing instrument for about the price of an iPhone," he said.
If you are concerned about a loved one who is experiencing any of the symptoms mentioned above, talk to a doctor about testing for hearing loss. In several studies, even patients with Alzheimer's showed improved ability to understand and communicate after they were fitted with hearing aids.
"Our mission is to remove cost as an obstacle for the millions with hearing loss that cannot afford a custom hearing aid," said Dr. Cherukuri.
For more information about a safe, affordable way to improve hearing loss, visit www.MDHearingAid.com or call 800-873-0680.


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These records are arranged according to an organizational breakdown ending with the regiment or the independent battalion or company. Compiled service records typically contain card abstracts of a soldier's original muster and hospital rolls, descriptive books, lists of deserters, returns, notational cards, and possibly enlistment papers, casualty sheets, death reports, prisoner of war papers, and correspondence.
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Springbank 21 Year Old 1992 Cask 248 1992
See all Springbank
|Tasting Notes
Please note that these tasting notes/scores are not intended to be exhaustive and in some cases they may not be the most recently published figures. However, we always do our best to add latest scores and reviews when these come to our attention. We advise customers who wish to purchase wines based simply on critical reviews to carry out further research into the latest reports.


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Christ Is Risen!
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Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
who's the conductor? Is it Solti? IMHO, this was the only time, unfortunately, that the Chicago Symphony was worth its salt.Aside from that, Mussorgsky's awesome!
Our oldest, now 14.5, who has just wandered by and read your post, TinaG, just quoted The Incredibles "Leading experts say that Beethoven makes babies smarter". He has a growing sense of humour.Ebor
Why do kids never ever think they get their intelligence from their PARENTS? Sigh. Your son is just too young to admit it yet. That usually happens about the time they have kids of their own, or so I've heard. Mine are still young enough to think I know something because Mommy said so.
Well, to be fair, he was trying to be funny as he then quoted more of the movie.And he and his sister *do* still come to us for information (the youngest coming to us more for things like ice cream) and sometimes get the answer "I don't know, but I know how to find out!"Ebor
I'm always amazed at how my kids can't seem to remember who left the fridge door open or why the cat is wearing someone's superhero underwear around its head, but they can quote line for line from their favorite movies, TV commercials or potty mouthed Cartoon Network show.
The Incredibles must be a favorite of his if he can quote the movie.
I'm always amazed at how my kids can't seem to remember who left the fridge door open or why the cat is wearing someone's superhero underwear around its head ...
Boy, you aren't kidding about that Maya Nasri!
Bringin' us back on track... Has anyone heard of Jamie Cullum? He's an awesome jazz pianist who plays not only the classics but has an interesting take on Jimi Hendrix (Wind Cries Mary) and Radiohead (High and Dry)! Check out the CD Twentysomething if y'all are interested.Oh yeah, for the [wiser and more experienced ] crowd, he also does great renditions of Singin' In The Rain, What A Difference A Day Made and I Could Have Danced All Night.
Karen Carpenter Cheesy but addictive.
I just finished listening to the "Walking With Strangers" CD by The Birthday Massacre. Now I'm listening to my MP3s. Currently: "Duality" by Slipknot.
I don't have the Slipknot albums, just a few (legal) MP3s. I don't think I'd want to buy the albums, seeing the cover art!
. I don't like the Iron Maiden covers, though.
One of my favorites is playing in my office, whilst I prepare for my last parish council meetings of this year:Clancy Bros & Tommy Makem"Irish Songs of Drinking & Rebellion"
if it were possible to wear out a cd, it would have been worn about by now, since it's almost 12 years old!
I never could make a cassette last very long... my crappy players would eat the ribbons before the tape would wear out. Yay for CDs.
Kings XEverclear
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why was Harrison Schmitt the last man on the moon in 1972 and howcome no one has been since
im begining to think that a) we have never actually been to the moon or that aliens really exist and have warned us never to return or else
its one or the other
why was Harrison Schmitt the last man on the moon in 1972 and howcome no one has been since
im begining to think that a) we have never actually been to the moon or that aliens really exist and have warned us never to return or else
its one or the other
He wasn't
There was no color television in 1969, yet some c*nt built a spaceship and sent people to another planet?
Yes ok.
I don't work for free Grapefruit
im just not buying the lack of funds as reason for there being no futher explorations of the moon
Why are you calling me grapefruit
anyway ive just watched transformers dark of the moopn and they revealed that the decepticons made the americans do some creative accounting so that it will appear too expencsive, so that we wouldnt discover their portal
i much more inclined to accept that explaination
I thought that for the life of me people were aware that man has never stepped foot on the moon...strange that in 2012 people still believe this
truly odd
Quote:Are you serious?
Quote:Stop trying to be controversial.
Quote:So If I put a photo of you on Everest Rocky up it wil prove no one ever climbed Everest
Actually its what I really believe
ebo has rocky said there was no spaceship landed on the moon, I think he only said no man had gone to the moon, objects can be left on the moom without man having been there
Quote:RockstaarQuote:So If I put a photo of you on Everest Rocky up it wil prove no one ever climbed Everest
No Padre, Everest is on earth and we had plenty of time and trial and error to figure out climbing a mountain
we're talking about a human being going to the moon in a spacesuit for the first time and everything went perfectly well..give me a break
do you know how many test runs you would have to do to be in the position Armstrong and co were in..planting flags and sh.t lol
no its the radiation problem that is the problem, the space shuttle ever went into outerspace as it could not handle it, yet we are to believe 25 years earlier we had craft that could, did we just forget how they coped
Quote:So now all is revealed. Over the course of several years billions of dollars were spent and men's lives were lost while two countries pretended to be racing to do something that each knew was actually physically impossible.
There are tons of people who don't believe this
Quote:There are tons of people who believe in God. Tons of people read the Sun and think it's all true. Tons of people voted for Hitler. People are f.ucking idiots which accounts for why there are so many AKBs still at large.
Quote:Do you believe in aeroplanes? I expect you've been on a few or do you go by boat to America? Do you think anyone knew what it would be like thousands of feet above the ground? And yet man built aeroplanes.
I mean common sense would tell you that if you wanted to make a suit that could be submerged under deep water for an extended time, you would have to test quite a number of times in that environment and that along the way there would be ups and downs..and thats on EARTH! you wouldn't have a televised perfect run in 1969!! Having NEVER EVER stepped foot on there before
No wait, that's exactly what they did f.ucking do.
Quote:rocky you pumpkin what do you mean you dont believe in God
Quote:i know that God exists because of my faith
when you act in faith your have no doubt
Quote:In the same way that if you find a cake sitting on the kitchen table, someone must have put it there.
Quote:celine dion
well, Jesus used to teach that blessed were the humble Jack.
Im guessing you missed that page out.
But the concept of a higher being is not so easily explained away.
Quote:so when you put your key in the ignition to start you car in the morning do you have faith that it will start or do you just know because it has been proven to start the car in the past
Quote:A relationship with God is a personal thing
Quote:you dont have to know exactly how a car works in order to start it and drive itg were it need to go, you do that because you have faith in what people have told you about what a car is supposed to do and based on that info you`have exercised faith and found it to be true
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text:
Blog: PAMM and Overtown Youth Center Prepare for El Bibliobandido's Arrival
Anticipating this Saturday's arrival of El Bibliobandido, the story-eating bandit who terrorizes little kids until they write and offer him stories they've written, Studio REV- (lead artist: Marisa Jahn) facilitated a bookmaking workshop at PAMM with Miami's finest from Overtown Youth Center.
After discussing the origins of this book-thieving villain, whose scariness they rated between a level 6 and 8, they prepared their own literary offerings lest El Bibliobandido strike Overtown.
Highlights included a 9-word poem by Faith, who ingeniously got away with 10 words: "Hot chilli pepper sauce, what in the name of…" They deliberated the source of existential angst in the poem "Squeaky sneaker, you wake the baby because you're jealous." (Was the sneaker jealous because babies get more attention for their noisiness? Was the sneaker envious of the baby's newness and mortality?)
The group mused that if El Bibliobandido was going to strike Miami, he probably would go to Overtown first (everyone knows the kids in the Overtown Youth Center have the juiciest of stories). And if he did, it might even be an honor (but this was not to be publicly acknowledged).
To increase this likelihood, they began choreographing a "Summoning Dance" at PAMM, replete with grapevine steps suggestive of a ravenous Bibliobandido, intimations of a galloping horse and a conga line. Luckily, a camera was on hand to document this spontaneous irruption of energy, which will be soon converted in a Miami-hot dance video. Stay tuned!


text:
Christ Is Risen!
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22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
So....I really have a hard time with this concept of perpetual virginity. It just doesn't make any sense. There is no need for it one way or the other (IMO). It adds nothing to the work of Christ.
Besides, for me the most important matter, is it plainly contradicts the record of Scripture. So, in that sense, it is one of those issues that to me is an error in the teaching of Tradition (or tradition, not sure which or when to use the upper case lower case -- to me it's all the same) vs. the teaching of Scripture.Matthew 1:22-25 That word "till" says it all. After Christ was born of Mary, while still a virgin, she and her husband had physical sexual union. The inclusion of "till" assumes and concludes that there was a point at which Joseph did have sexual intercourse with her. At that point she was no longer a virgin. They even had other children of their own.Virginity (in this case for a female) is not having had sexual intercourse (specifically vaginal penetration by a man). Clearly, as God intends in marriage, where such is holy, Mary and Joseph were intimate as husband and wife. He "knew" her. She was then, at that point, no longer a virgin.
If it makes no sense, why then do you say it makes no difference? Non sequitur.
My apologies I misspoke. I did not mean it makes no difference either way. I meant i makes no difference in that it adds nothing to the work of Christ. I was attempting to emphasis why it is (to me) unnecessary.
Unfortunately, this is where English cannot help you understand the Greek. The Greek word which is translated into English as "until" is eos. This particular word, like so many other two and three letter Greek words, have almost no direct and immediate translation. In Greek, the sense of this particle is "up to a point and continuing past." Of course, we have no way to render that complex word in such a simple word so we choose the closest (but not exact word) which is "until" or "'til". This word is also used in the last chapter of Matthew where our Lord exhorts His apostles and says, "I will be with you until [eos] the end of age." Will Christ no longer be with us even when this earth is gone? Of course He will. If you wish to inquire further, may I recommend looking up eos in Denniston's Greek Particles? It will give you plenty of other examples in Greek, both koine and non.By the way, the EO look upon Ezekiel 44 and Psalm 44 as directly witnessing about the Mother of God. Read Ezekiel, about the temple being shut and you tell me what it is referring to.{Edit - I added a space between the words "is" and "eos," since for some reason there wasn't one there. That's all I changed. - Cleveland, GM}
Cleopas,I can appreciate that you are coming from an Evangelical background, but you frequently add "to me" when it comes to doctrines. How can this doctrine be if it doesn't make sense to me? Perhaps I'm the last person to say anything about this, but the holy fathers of the Church are MUCH smarter and wiser and are in communion with God whereas I am not. Attempting to disprove a belief of the EO, which has been held for 2000 years, well before you and I even were a consideration for existence simply because it doesn't make sense "to you" is not going to convince anyone. Not one of the fathers stand in a vacuum; they must be collectively understood in the wholeness of the church. And with that, I think it is obvious as to who has the truth on their side. Forgive me, if my response seems to be phrased too harshly.
Yes, but the content of the passage limits the use and application of the word to it's first meaning. The context is the Jewish espousal period. The point is to confirm the virginity of Mary, her faithfulness to Joseph, and Joseph's faithfulness to the custom of marriage in his day. The write makes a point of saying she was a virgin up until and after the birth of Christ. But that Joseph did sexually join with her, as all Jewish males did after the espousal period had concluded. His joining with her was delayed because of her carrying and birthing Jesus. It was delayed but not forbidden. In fact it would have been forbidden for her not to have joined sexually with Joseph. To defraud him thusly would be sinful.
Yes, but the content of the passage limits the use and application of the word to it's first meaning. The context is the Jewish espousal period. The point is to confirm the virginity of Mary, her faithfulness to Joseph, and Joseph's faithfulness to the custom of marriage in his day. The write makes a point of saying she was a virgin up until and after the birth of Christ. But that Joseph did sexually join with her, as all Jewish males did after the espousal period had concluded. His joining with her was delayed because of her carrying and birthing Jesus. It was delayed but not forbidden. In fact it would have been forbidden for her not to have joined sexually with Joseph. To defraud him thusly would be sinful.
Christodolous,Ahaaaaaa. I see! Even though she was joined physically with her husband and is no longer free from sexual experience she is still yet a virgin. Makes perfect sense. It is utter contradiction to say she was a virgin while at the same time attesting she was joined with her husband.
Let me ask How can I best share my thoughts and differences and still present a cordial tone? I don't mind speaking on an issue (obviously) and what I believe about it. But I don't want to lift anyone, including myself, up above the infallability of the word of God. I want to leave room for the possibility I may be wrong. And I want to leave room for endearment and fellowship in the midst of passionate disagreement. How would one best do that among Orthodox believers? How should I adress such things in a way that is respectful to you guys and true to my convictions?
You were trying to make a linguistic argument based on the word "until" which you boldfaced in your initial post. I refuted it. Now you're saying that that was not what you were intending to do. You can't have it a different way if your first attempt backfired.
And now you say that there was some sort of conspiracy against Joseph? Why would he not want to preserve Mary's virginity? If you look at icons of St. Joseph which are quite ancient, Joseph is always an old man and way past his child-bearing and coupling years (they didn't have viagra back then, either ). Your whole argument seems to be based on that everyone is a slave to their biology and then trying to find some religious rite to justify it. not the case.
Part of what I perceive to be faulty logic is the application of English-language expectations (that the word "until" implies action after the set condition) to a language that is completely different than English (which New Testament Greek is).I don't have any of my Ancient/New Testament Greek resources with me here at work, but I don't think έως has any other meaning than the complete "up to a point and continuing past." I can't think of any passages where it implies stop-action at the designated point. Then again, I don't have my references, and don't have the time to cross-reference it.
It is first of all important to remember that Mary and Joseph were only betrothed, not married. (Notice in Matthew 1:18b, for example the NRSV[1] says "engaged" NIV says "pledged to be married" and NKJV says "betrothed.") In the Jewish tradition, betrothal lasts for a year and was legally binding. There is no mention in the original Greek that they were ever married. Thus, the Church had always taught that the fact that they were never married is further evidence that there was no physical sexual relationship.
I think my responses below, to other quotes, will clear up my argument and premise. I am seeing this through the lens of Jewish marriage at the time.I realize many of the modern English versions use engaged as an equivalent to espoused. betrothed may or may not be an equivalent. But engagement (at least in the modern sense) is NOT equivalent with the Jewish concept of Espousal.I will assume you are familiar with the Jewish wedding of that era. If so you know that the espousal period is the period of separation between he purchase of and covenant with the bride and the return to steal her away to the prepared bridal chamber (where physical union took place) and to the home place prepared for her by her husband.Though hard for a Western mind to understand, yet very practical on the other hand, despite the marriage being already inaugurated they did not live together, but were still under covenant. It is the covenant that is the means of union (on the human side at least). Once the bride had been purchased and had accepted the covenant (sealing it with the cup of wine) she was the wife, albeit the espoused wife, of her husband. The marriage was binding, though considered incomplete with regard to ceremony and custom. It required a divorce to break it (substantiating that espousal was marriage). Joseph (not her father) paid taxes with her to Rome. When the Scriptures says that the angel instructed Joseph to take unto him his wife (not fiance), if one understands the espousal custom, he was being instructed to conclude the espousal period to go and bring his wife home with Him. If they were never married her father would not have permitted her to be taken from his home. But the father permitted it because the groom had covenanted and paid the price for the bride. he had the proof of purchase (if you will) and she was his property. She was only in the keeping of her father until the groom came to take her away.Scripture then concludes that Joseph did as instructed. So he ended the espousal period. The only thing that was different was he had to wait till after the birth of Christ to be intimate with his bride.Furthermore, If Mary had of been under a vow of celibacy she could not have been espoused. Espousal = marriage, & marriage assumes sexual union. Especially in the Jewish weddings of that time.
She was only in the keeping of her father until the groom came to take her away.Scripture then concludes that Joseph did as instructed. So he ended the espousal period. The only thing that was different was he had to wait till after the birth of Christ to be intimate with his bride.
Except her father had been dead for some time, as was her mother. Neither lived to see their daughter betrothed to Joseph; she was in the care of the High Priest as a child of the Temple until her betrothal.I have to repeat: again, you are assuming facts not in evidence. One cannot assume that Joseph did all the things required by Jewish law, since he did not have Mary stoned for having a child out of wedlock, nor did he divorce her. This made him unclean, just for being in the same house with her and not putting her out. He knew that something supernatural was going on, and acted accordingly.I think you need to read and understand the reference I posted above, and present a refutation of it if you feel so inclined.
Pardon me. I mixed metaphors subjects. I was alternating between the generic "espoused virgin" and Mary and the generic "groom" and Joseph without clearing delianting which I spoke of and when. I attempted to give a basic overview of the espousal/marriage custom.I will look into your links when I have time. However, if it is long burdensome reading I would prefer to dialog with you about it. I prefer interaction, and fresh dialog, seasoned with reference about the same way I enjoy reading a good essay or article with cited works, but do not care to grab a literary encyclopedia for reading enjoyment.
And now, a brief study of the concept of "until" as used in Matthew 1:25a "...but he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son." (NIV)"...but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; (NRSV)"...and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son." (NKJV) The Greek word most often translated as "until" is eos (pronounced āōs), and is negated by ouk at the beginning of the phrase, meaning "not."The modern-day meaning of the word "until" might lead us to think that Joseph "did not know her until..." but that he did afterwards. However, the biblical usage is quite different. In ancient and biblical usage, the word eos is used to designate a "boundary formed by a historical event."[2]The Greek conjunction eos (till), like the Hebrew ad-ki and the Latin donec, while expressing what has occurred up to a certain period, leaves the future entirely aside"[3] Here are some cross references to illustrate that ouk...eos it more accurately translated as "not until this important event, but still not after" (i.e. never.) 1) Note Luke 2:36-37, the story of Christ's Presentation at the Temple. The verse describes Anna the prophetess as having lived with her husband for 7 years after their marriage, and then, "she has lived as a widow until (eos) ." At the time of The Presentation of Christ she is still a widow, and will continue to be so after this. The "boundary" historical event is the Presentation of Christ. 2) Another good example of this is Acts 8:40. The verse says "Phillip.... traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until (eos) he reached Caesarea" (NIV) Did Phillip the deacon preach the gospel after he reached Caesarea? Of course he did. The "boundary" historical event is Phillip the deacon's arrival in Caesarea and the word eos is used to denote the importance of this event. He preached before, until this significant event, and still after. 3) Another example is Matthew 24:21, where the use of the word (eos) as having an action as continuing into the future is actually clarified in the text: "then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until (eos) now – and never to be equaled again." This great distress has not been seen until now, and still, will never be seen again. 4) See John 5:17. Jesus is speaking: "My Father is always at work to (eos) this very day, and I, too am working." (NIV) or "My Father has been working until (eos) now..."(NKJV) "My Father is still working, (eos) and I also am working." Clearly Jesus did not mean that His Father was working only until that very day, but still. Jesus' presence on earth was a "boundary" historical event. The Father worked until that day, and still afterwards. 5) other examples: Genesis 8.7 "Noah...sent forth a raven; and it went to and fro till the waters were dried up from the earth." Psalm 110.1 "the Lord said to my Lord: Sit thou on my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool." See also Isaiah 22.15, Matt 12.20, 1 Tim 4.13, Psalm 90.2, Psalm 72.7 Finally, back to Matthew 1:25a, the birth of Mary's Firstborn Son is a "boundary" historical event. In the same sense as the examples above, Joseph did not know Mary before the birth, but also after this watershed event of the birth of the Messiah.[2] According to Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker in "A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" p. 334.[3] Fillion, in Rev. George Mastrantonis, The Virgin Mary, Theotokos, OLOGOS.
The Ever-Virginity is not a miraculous act but an attitude. The virginity of Mary after the birth of Jesus Christ was not a miraculous act of God; it was merely her preference for the rest of her life.
It seems my assumptions or predispositions caused me to overlook a very important point.I read this and it just did not hit me. So, you are saying then that Mary (and Joseph) chose not to have sexual union? That it was not a miracle? I had this idea that you guys (at least Catholics) believed God preserved her physical attributes of virginity in spite of her having birthed a Son and (in my initial view) having been sexually active with her husband.Let me also ask, what historical documentation do we have to attest the age of Joseph compared with Mary? How close to the actual events is such documentation? Is there any secular documentation especially (so that I am not just taking the Orthodox/Catholic word for it)?
Okay, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but... this is why the church has ALWAYS referred to Joseph as the "Bridegroom," because they were forever engaged, never married. Cleopas, I understand where you are coming from. I took a class called "Christ in the Old Testament" from a man named Father Eugen Pentiuc. The name of the book pertinent to the class is Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible (I suggest you read it. It is awesome!). Father Pentiuc speaks all of the ancient biblical languages fluently, and usually proves his point by tracing the etymology of the words in the text to find the original meaning intended by the writer. He is nothing short of brilliant (can I get an amen, Cleveland and FrChris?).During the class, he brought up this sticky little word "until" and pointed out that this was the reason that the church had never "officially" made the ever virginity of Mary an official dogma (one student walked out at that point). Then he went on to trace the etymology and usage of the word eos (just as these gentlemen have so kindly done)to show that they COULD, and talked about how the church had done that by proclaiming its beliefs through the saints, councils, etc. rather than canonizing it (somebody feel free to clarify here if I'm not making my point well enough). Now, we know from the writings of the hierarchs, confessors, ascetics, hymnographers, and especially the protoevangelion of St. James that the Theotokos did not, in fact, ever marry Joseph, but remained forever betrothed. For me, personally, more than the etymology of "eos," it is this fact that seals her ever-virginity. Had she married Joseph, the marriage would have been consumated. But in fact, it never was, they never were. And Cleveland is correct in saying that Joachim and Anna had already passed away. Though we may have seen the Nativity Story, this is part of the artistic license they took- keeing Joachim and Anna alive. But I digress here.While this is one of the more controversial dogmas of the EOC, it is one of our most sacred and, I can assure you, has been "proved" (theologically), and confirmed and proclaimed throughout the ages. She is the All Holy, Ever-virgin, the pride and jewel of the Church, the salvation of the human race, and the mother of all... why? Because in her infinite love, she sacrificed like no other mother ever would and CONTINUES to sacrifice by interceding for us every day. Hope this helps!Through the prayers of the blessed Theotokos...God bless
Let me also ask, what historical documentation do we have to attest the age of Joseph compared with Mary? How close to the actual events is such documentation? Is there any secular documentation especially (so that I am not just taking the Orthodox/Catholic word for it)?
Hello,I think that most Orthodox would age him at the age of 90 at the time of his betrothal to Mary. This comes from an early work known as the Protoevangelium of James. Catholics will generally age him between his teenage years (an uncommon but still existent opinion) and age 90. The two most common thoughts are age 90 or mid-30's at the time of the betrothal. Catholics will cite any number of different sources for their opinion. Of course, how old Joseph was when he betrothed Mary is not a matter of doctrine and so differing thoughts are permitted.
What we do know, though, (and what is important for us to know) is that Joseph was a widower (and thus old enough to have had another wife), and had children by his first wife. This is why some icons of the flight to Egypt show that St. Iakovos was with them. This is also why we know St. Iakovos (James) as the brother of the Lord. The EOC holds that St. Iakovos the Brother of the Lord was Joseph's son by his first wife. These things are more important for us to know than his exact age.
12 ...But Mary had forgotten the mysteries of which the archangel Gabriel had spoken,...
19. ...And the midwife went forth out of the cave, and Salome met her. And she said to her: Salome, Salome, I have a strange sight to relate to you: a virgin has brought forth—a thing which her nature admits not of. Then said Salome: As the Lord my God lives, unless I thrust in my finger, and search the parts, I will not believe that a virgin has brought forth.20. And the midwife went in, and said to Mary: Show yourself; for no small controversy has arisen about you. And Salome put in her finger, and cried out, and said: Woe is me for mine iniquity and mine unbelief, because I have tempted the living God; and, behold, my hand is dropping off as if burned with fire.
Don't get me wrong. I believe Mary was a virgin, that she gave birth as a virgin. Perhaps (though I doubt it) she remained a virgin, in that she never had sexual relations with a man. But the hymen did not stay in tact through child birth. Mary brought forth a son. She actually birthed him. By the time dilation was complete, much less pushing the baby out in delivery, there was no hymen left in tact. Sorry, I will not say anymore about that at this point as I do not wish to be offensive. But I don't buy it.
And you ... get caught up on the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos based on what you believe is a scientific argument? Give me a break, surely you see why it's hard for me to take this objection of yours seriously.
No. I have said I personally doubt Mary remained a virgin, but remain open to the possibility. However, I cannot seriously consider the Proto. of James as a source to help determine the validity of that claim (that Mary remained a virgin all the days of her life) and interpretation of the Biblical text.
No. I have said I personally doubt Mary remained a virgin, but remain open to the possibility.
Is it not the heresy of Helvidius to deny that St. Mary remained ever-virgin? When was this dealt with does anyone know please? (RCs may be able to help us out here as I think it arose in the West?)
Ezekiel 44 makes it clear that the gate through which God entered the world must remain shut and noone else was to enter by it.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that metaphorical interpretation of the text.
Hello,Don't some of the Fathers teach that Jesus passed through the womb of Mary miraculously, as He passed through the walls after the Resurrection.
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