text:
Obama's going to take your house, your car and anything you might have more of than the other guy or gal. Sad. Very sad, too, that 23 million Americans are without a job. They probably don't have any stuff and are just praying for a place to sleep and eat. Infuriating, too, that under Obama for the first time in 100 years America's credit rating has been downgraded. How did this happen? Obama promised "If I don't fix the economy in three years, then I'll be a one-term president." Instead Obama's promises focused on Obamacare with its taxes, death panels, abortions and doctors answering to government rather than patients. Obama dolled out-- free cell phones, lots of entitlements, lies, and added his handpicked czars free from America's Constitution ensuring no one branch of government becomes too powerful.
Now, pack up and hide your stuff cause Obama is going to take it. Maybe not this moment, but he's coming after what you've worked to earn. Obama has his believers who think that they are entitled to America's stuff. Each believer is waiting for Obama's second term. It will be the end of America as we loved its capitalism. The lines will form to dole out all that cash from " the rich" who Obama seems to hate (yet he's a millionaire). Are you prepared to protect your stuff from these entitlement lines?
Right now, King Obama's edict is that he's going to take some from the rich to give to the other folks. Obama defines these "rich" now as those who earn $250,000. Why $250,000 and not $450,000 or $95,000? If he is elected another four years, heaven forbid, his edict could change.
But the stuff? If this president plans to take from the rich to give to other folks, what else is possible? Why not cars, houses, land, trucks, boats, jewelry? You might own something the other guy doesn't. No doubt you worked for it. You had your American Dream and saved and sacrificed till it became yours. What happens if the other folks don't have stuff? Obama's plan to share the wealth might not end at cash.
Voters we must stop Obama and his socialist insanity. In America, we work and sacrifice one thing for another. Americans are CAPITALISTS. Capitalism makes America rich in so many ways and better and different from other countries.
Obama's promises are hot air on a teleprompter. Four more years of Obama is a nightmare to imagine. November 6 is the most important election in America's history. It's about saving our stuff; our pride in America, the American Dream, Capitalism, the Constitution. We must vote Obama fired! The only promise he's read off that teleprompter that I'd wish he'd keep is to be a one-term president. Voters we must vote him out cause it appears he's not keeping this promise either. November 6 will be our turn to help him keep that promise. Vote Romney/Ryan.
James Thomas
9:26 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
From the Democratic Press. Where else do lies originate?
Does the NY Times support its own unions? No it crushes them like fascists.
12:35 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Free cell phones ? The "Obama phone" or free cell phone program she's touting doesn't give out free phones to minorities. And it wasn't started by President Obama. . The free cell phones began back in 1996 under the Telecomunications act of 1996.
Garry Kanter
2:32 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Hey! Come to think of it, why *isn't* Fox News reporting on the DEATH PANELS!!! ??
I'm not in the news biz, but that sounds like a big story to me.
8:43 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Now that's 100% incorrect. Monorities are the top recipient of Obamaphones.
3:56 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Holy cow. I thought that the headline had to be a joke and then I actually read this steamy pile. This author must be a little schizo, because I just looked at her article history and her last article was about how we need more government to control our obesity.
I still can't tell if this article above was suppose to be for real or is this one of those hyper-exaggerated pieces that are suppose to be funny because they are so absurd; kind of like a Colbert skit.
Ed Fisher
7:00 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
This short but hysterical sounding rant has all the stupid right-wing buzzwords right in it! "Death panels", "socialist" "abortions". All rolled up into one strident plea that has so many ridiculous statements that it's hard to know if this lady is serious (jeez, wouldn't that be a shame?) or just demented and raving (my guess). Either way, it does come across as a naive rich lady who might be better served reading the society pages and not trying to understand or follow politics.
Gina J.
8:03 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
What stuff???? George W. and Pickles made sure that none of us have any stuff-like jobs! The problem with our current situation is that we have a black man in the white house. From day one of his office white Republicans vowed to tussle over any agenda the President put forth and they kept their word. It's Tea Baggers like Kathleen that really prove that ignorance in this country is truly bliss.
Phyllis Stager
11:39 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Fort the first two years of our president's term it was a democrat controlled congress. Anything Obama wanted could have been passed without any GOP input or interference. Why wasn't anything passed in regard to the floundering economy? Why did Obama reject the Simpson-Bowles recommendations? He had every opportunity to do some REAL fixing and botched it. That is what brought forth the Tea people. He was too focused on the ACA to the neglect of more pressing issues, like balancing the budget...for that matter, there has been no budget for more than 3 years. This administration is a disaster...but I know, it's Bush's fault. LOL!
Mike S
10:11 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Your racism is showing. Color of the skin has nothing to do with any of it. The Tea Party message is simple: The Constitution guaranteed equal opportunity, NOT EQUAL RESULT. This is the most corrupt administration in the history of this country. God help us all if that corrupt, anti-American, anti- Capitalism idiot is re-elected.
8:14 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
To support Obama at this point one must either be a socialist, a supporter of class envy, a blind political hack or just looking forward to the coming downfall of the American way of life. Look at how low this country has sunk in the past 3+ years under Obama - he's systematically attacked our way of life and successfully blinded so many to his goals - he won't talk about his record for fear of drawing attention to what he has really accomplished so far. This is no regular election. If this guy gets another four years the America left to us will undeniably be unrecognizable and by that time those of you who foolishly voted for him to have a second term will realize the error of your vote and that it is, sadly, too late to do anything about the largest mistake in American presidential history.
Garry Kanter
9:41 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
"Look at how low this country has sunk in the past 3+ years under Obama - he's systematically attacked our way of life and successfully blinded so many to his goals - he won't talk about his record for fear of drawing attention to what he has really accomplished so far."
How come Fox News doesn't report on this? You'd think they would mention this, rather than the First Lady trying to get kids to eat better food. Or how much vacation they take.
Lynda Zielinski
8:36 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Be afraid, be very afraid. I'm coming after your wig.
John McMillan
5:09 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
hahaha by far the funniest post I've read all year!
Cynnairia Caver
8:51 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Wow, this article has to be a joke... Right?
Rhonda Lee Starr
9:19 am on Monday, February 18, 2013
That's how I feel about every Wilhelm post. I'm convinced they're all written by a psychology professor using us all as lab rats.
9:43 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
What I have found astounding in this election cycle is the lack of courage displayed by Republicans in their posts. The President will win the election because the people don't respect the Chicken Little "the sky is falling" message from the Republicans. Can you imagine where the country would be if cowardice was allowed to prevail in past difficult times in our history?
Glinda Smith
10:08 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
You need to stop watching Fox News, Kathleen.
Ed Fisher
11:04 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Phyllis, who in their right mind gives a flying hoot what they write in the Dallas News? Come on, housing is up. The Dow is slowly climbing. Construction is up. Home prices have risen about 10 % in the last 18 months. VERY SLOWLY, things are getting back TOWARDS the good. Rom/Ry will not improve upon any of the VERY SLOW BUT DELIBERATE GROWTH that we are experiencing. How's your 401k doing ? Mine is SLOWLY growing after a horrifying slide in 2008-2009. Have patience. The economy tanked for the worst recession since the Depression. It just can't jump right back because some rich guy thinks he's got all the answers. He doesn't. Employment will come back when corporate America stops outsourcing our jobs. THEY'RE the reason we're losing jobs to China. Grow up and look around. Stop acting like children that want things right now.
Phyllis Stager
10:55 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Frankly, I just about fainted when I read the DMN article. Its the first left leaning journalistic publication to rationally approach our candidates, their positions and accomplishments with facts and a fair analysis. No screaming, no emotion, no artificial constructs....really worth a read!
Diane Stresing
11:02 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
DEAR AOL: If Patch is going to be taken seriously in the new era of journalism, it needs to actually vet its bloggers and other contributors before allowing them to publish. I know Patch has rules regarding blogger approval; please enforce them.
Phyllis Stager
11:28 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
@Ed Fisher...well, maybe no one gives a hoot as to what the Dallas paper writes. My point is that DMN is a left leaning newspaper. In my opinion the 'editorial' was a common sense assessment of our candidates accomplishments and plans.
I admire your optimism as to a future with President Obama. What you are saying is that everything is looking up, and just keep on keeping on with the same type of decisions and leadership. As to the Dow, many investors worry that the recent gains by stocks aren't justified. The jump in spending was a big jump but it was driven by higher gas prices, rather than by spending on general merchandise.
Setting that aside, our debt and deficit need far more attention than hope from a rising stock market. Discontinuing the tax cuts as of January first will bring in enough $ to run the government budget for only 8 days. As to outsourcing, Obama gave $50 billion to GM and GM started building cars in China and Mexico to save on labor. The unemployment rate has been above 8% for 43 months...and it is not even the TRUE unemployment rate, its actually higher.
So...we both have our assessments of hope for the future....my hope rests with a change in leadership.
Ed Fisher
5:12 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
"Many investors worry".....well, gee, imagine that....investors that worry. That's a surprise ? "Obama gave 50 billion to GM"........we LOANED the money to GM, and they paid it back! And their shareholders greed drove them to outsource to China. Do you just make stuff up to shield yourself from reality ? Do you really not understand how this free market works ? Don't blame the President (ANY President) for the mess that profit-at-any-cost corporate greed creates.
10:00 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Why do people keep repeating this? Just who is making stuff up?
Taxpayers are still on the hook for $25billion from GM!!!
And, guess who else hasn't paid money back? Ally Financial (formerly GMAC,you know - that old GM financing firm). They owe about $12billion.
As I wrote a few weeks ago,
To followup, the Treasury (the government, that's us) owns 500 million shares of GM - that's 26% of GM. For the government to breakeven on its "investment", it would need to be at $53. Initial IPO was $33. Today, it is trading at about $23/share.
Today, would be about $25billion loss - per the White House.
So, unless monies have been repaid that I have missed in the news, between GM and their financing arm, that's currently a $37billion loss to the American taxpayers.
Dan Marol
4:41 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
You are 100% right about the taxpayers being on the hook for $25 billion. GM did pay back the original loan, but the government still has ownership in GM shares, amounting to $25 billion. Time will tell if we end up losing on that investment.
However, you should not lump Ally Financial, formerly GMAC in with GM. GMAC had spun off of GM way before the bankruptcy, and has been an independent bank for awhile.
Also, why don't you correct Phyllis? Her comments about "Obama gave GM $50 billion and GM started building cars in China and Mexico" is so misleading, it's not funny. If she did her research, any car maker that wants to do business in China (the world's largest auto market), they first have to partner up 50/50 with a Chinese company (Chinese law). Then, they have to manufactuer their cars in China to sell to the Chinese. GM is selling a ton of Buicks in China, for the Chinese market, which ends up helping GM's bottom line. Also, GM and many other auto companies have been building plants in Mexico for years, so that is nothing new. Lastly, why didn't Phyllis mention the thousands of American jobs that were created by GM after the bailout? Isn't that the most important thing, and she conveniently leaves that out???
Phyllis Stager
9:17 am on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
@Dan Marol..I think the auto bail out saved more jobs than it created. And in yesterday's auto industry report Toyota had a major bump in sales whereas Ford and GM were status quo.
So, it's okay to open manufacturing plants in other countries while going thru the machinations of bankruptcy recovery on our dime, even though we need the jobs here. Is that sort of like 'out sourcing', the big bad no-no? Yes, GM created thousands of jobs...just not all in the USA.
Dan Marol
2:15 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
"General Motors announced this morning that its U.S. sales last month accounted for the best September since 2008, selling 210,245 units. Overall, GM's sales were up 1.5 percent compared with a year ago with passenger cars in particular seeing a 29 percent increase." Phyllis- this is good news. Why is it so hard to accept? Note the part where it says best September since 2008. Yes, Toyota had a bigger percentage increase over last September, the reason being most Japanese automakers had huge losses last year over the Japanese sunami.
Sounds like you want the government to tell GM where to build their plants....very un-Republican of you.
11:41 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
I agree with you Ed F., our society has come to expect instant gratification. Throughout American history when a severe economic meltdown has occurred it has taken a long time to recover. This instance will be no different. Those who have educated themselves as to the underpinnings of this systemic meltdown know that an individual in an Oval Office is not capable of waving a magic wand thereby erasing 15 years of economic sin in 4.
1:53 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
ROFL. This lusional article is what happens when a person ODs on FAUX/GOP propaganda services!
2:51 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
And throw in a little Meth to reach the level of spasticity with which that whole muddled mess is regurgitated back in this piece. The whole time reading it, the image in my head was some rabid animal with its head swinging back and forth, frothing at the mouth.
What makes this funny, is far more than whatever message it was suppose to be communicating, but it the absolute raging writing style. It is so random and maddening, kind of like if you found two teenagers in the middle of a street fight and then grabbed one and set him immediately down to a keyboard and asked him to type out what why he was fighting the other kid. I honestly have not seen a more "off the rails" piece from any other Patch contributor.
Jeff Mittiga
3:01 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Kathleen forgot to complain about all the horrible government regulations that protect citizens from Wall Street scammers, consumer ripoffs, and poisoning of our environment. She also forgot to advocate for an increase in military spending so that the USA can continue to be the police force for the world. Just kidding! The republican party has gone to a bad place ..... the lunatic fringe.
3:26 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
I agree that some of these rants are ridiculous bordering on the hilarious. The problem is though, if the election does not go the Republican's way, then their sour grapes will lead them to freeze Washington at a most critical time in the country's history. That will be no laughing matter.
3:37 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Actually, there has been quite a bit of honest, intelectual anaysis as to why Republicans will be put into a place where they will have to compromise in Obama's second term:
3:45 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6 19:21
In order to remove the desire for wealth and material possessions as an obstacle to faith, some Christians have taken vows of poverty. Christianity has a long tradition of voluntary poverty which is manifested in the form of asceticism, charity and almsgiving.
Maybe it's time to really be a Christian, instead of just offering up lip service.
Ed Fisher
5:21 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Anyone who has read my blog today will immediately understand why I'm so glad not to know what this has to do with anything. Nor do I care.
7:00 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
If you truly didn't care, you wouldn't even bother to reply. By the way, nice plug of your blog. Your narcissism might just pay off.
Ed Fisher
8:36 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
Ahhhh.......a zealot AND a shrink. Proves my point.
Christopher London
9:56 pm on Sunday, September 30, 2012
ROMNEY THE RACKETEER: Romney & Priebus Led RNC Are Engaged in Election Fraud, Voter Suppression & Other Criminal Acts:: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10151023931102030
2:51 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Wow Kathleen I almost soiled myself when I read this! You are about 2 blogs away from being s full on zombie doomsday prepper. When I think about little innocent children going trick or treat in Avon Lake - the thought that they may knock on your door scares the heck out of me. You need to go see a doctor and tell him about your hallucinations. My only question is "where do you get your weed?"
2:57 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Kathleen - your writing is incredible. You solved a mystery that has remained in Avon Lake for many years. Many people think that the water is polluted and there is a significantly higher risk of cancer to Avon Lake residents. Well you finally proved it! The water is definitely contaminated and I'm certain your neighborhood has been affected the most. It is obvious your body has reacted and it likely that you have suffered severe brain damage. If I had a grenade I would stick it in my mouth and pull the pin so I would never have to read something as dumb as your article again. You should send it to the President, I'm pretty sure after reading your blog he would lose faith in humanity and quit.
Chris M.
6:43 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
At first I thought this was a joke - something from Onion. But now I think she might be serious. She seems like she's having some sort of nervous breakdown or paranoia attack. Maybe she's off her meds. Who knows. But she definitely needs psychiatric attention, especially on election day.
joe ponikarovsky
9:18 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
wow. thanks kathleen. this is just what i needed to wake me up and get me giggling on a monday morning.
you are seriously, without a doubt, 100% out of your friggin' mind.
9:41 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Thank you for the chuckle over my morning coffee. Most of my relatives are Republican, and therefore are basically paranoid, so this isn't new. However, the care to which this was drafted was... wait, nevermind. There was no thought to it. Just more paranoid ranting. Funny as all get-out, though.
10:06 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Lyn's numbers are correct on this point Ed F. That said, a $25B stimulus to save so many jobs, in my opinion, was warranted. I don't like government bailing out private industry but I can't imagine the carnage on the Ohio economy had they not.
Phyllis Stager
10:24 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
It seems to me that had the bail out for GM not occurred there could have been a simple Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing with subsequent reorganization of the company. They could have carried on as have many companies have done and recovered. The bail out saved Union pensions while ignoring 20,000 Delphi pensions. Why couldn't they save all the pensions?
10:25 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
But when do you say that this company is more deserving than that one?
As I recall, Ford did not take any money, but maybe memory is wrong. So, why should our money go to private industry? As GM and Chrysler did emerge from Chapter 11 with the governments help, how would it have been without, following the natural order? After all, people still would want to buy cars.
Also, it bothers me that the government had a hand in deciding how the company would operate and dealerships closing. And all this had a domino effect on other businesses as well. Shouldn't businesses succeed or fail on their own? Isn't that capitalism?
And, I'm not so comfortable with government owning private companies.
BUT, even with these thoughts, I do think the government needed to intervene with the financial institutions because it just might have meant a collapse of our economic system.
I don't know. I think I'm OK with GOOD loans, but not GIVING money or OWNING companies.
Phyllis Stager
10:40 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
@lyn..yes, Ford did not take any $. I agree with you, businesses should succeed or fail on their own. At the DNC convention in Charlotte they presented a video which said, 'The Government is the only thing we all belong to.' So, its not such a stretch for business, etc., to also become owned by the 'government'!
I always thought the government was to serve the citizens, not own them. I always thought the government was to work for us not for us to work for the government. Interesting philosophical dichotomy.
10:47 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
'The Government is the only thing we all belong to.' - Kinda spooky.
tom m
11:04 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
phyllis you need to get your facts straight before carrying the party line .... Bush started the bailout of GM and obama just continued it ...and so you will believe it I will link the fact right out of the huffington post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/obama-dnc-auto-bailout_n_1865584.html
Phyllis Stager
8:51 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
@tom m: Right, Bush started it. So...I guess its Bush's fault, along with everything else. Fact: GM appeared before congress and begged for financial help. Nov. 4th, 2008, Obama had won the presidential election. November 7th, 2008, congress agreed to $4.6 Billion prior to O taking office. The congress was Democrat majority, as it had been since 2006. The other $45 billion to come a few months later on Obama's dime.
And as to party-line...I am NOT a Republican. When Kinky Friedman was running for Governor in Texas, he got my vote.
Duke of Earl
10:17 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
The President has had to spend his entire first term cleaning up the wreckage left by the Bush administration and trying to save the auto companies from bankruptcy and deal with the unnecessary war in Iraq that the Bush administration started. The Bush administration spent 8 years letting Wall Street and the big banks do whatever they wanted; ignoring and weakening numerous environmental laws and regulations; engaging in reckless and ill advised foreign policy decisions and generally screwing up everything they touched. Ignorant people like you are attacking the guy that's trying to clean up the mess instead of the guy that caused it; the worst president in US history; George Bush. The truth is, the POTUS has very little effect on the economy. Blame the large corporations that are sitting on trillions of dollars hoping we elect a president that will let them destroy labor unions, ignore environmental regulations and stop giving their employees health benefits before they expand or hire new employees.
10:19 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Hey Mike S., where is the Tea Party's concern with the Constitution in Florida? Seems like the Tea Party was caught red-handed, at the Republican Party's own admission, creating fraudulent voter registrations. Do you have to abide by the Constitution as a whole or can you pick and choose when it's applicable?
10:30 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Kathleen, you poor, uninformed, misguided soul. You probably aren't even aware that unrestrained hatred has overtaken your life. It's not too late to seek help from a professional. Please do.
John H.
10:31 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Regardless political affiliation or how you feel of about the President's policies, Ms. O'Brien Wilhelm's post here is so full of ridiculous assertions and ignorance it has moved from sad to simply dangerous. It is so full of illogical paranoia and so devoid of facts that Patch editors ought to be ashamed of themselves and delete it immediately.
There is no room for falsehood and insane rants in this political process. Please let's stick to facts and data that you can prove. If you truly believe Romney is the better choice for President, present his plan and credentials, and if they are better, then that should be all you need. This type of irrational paranoia and threats from either side only turns people off from the process entirely.
10:39 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Phyllis, GM and Chrysler could not go the bankruptcy route. That would have necessitated large inflows of capital at a time when the credit market had seized up.
Phyllis Stager
10:46 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Well, I don't understand the ins and outs of bankruptcy, so you may be correct. They had to have had some financial assets, just not enough. Doesn't bankruptcy allow you to sort of be able to decide that which you can pay now and stuff you can put off? And you decide where you MUST cut the fat Then once you reorganize and cash flow hopefully begins to increase you start paying off that which you owe as you can afford it? Otherwise how does bankruptcy do anyone any good?
10:54 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Also don't know a lot about bankruptcy, but I do think there are different avenues within the bankruptcy code besides Chapter 11, which they both did follow in 2009.
Brian Andrews
7:51 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
MS, Your post indicates you don't understand c11 reorg.
10:53 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
You're essentially right Phyllis but this particular situation was vexing. GM and Chrysler debt aside, they both needed huge infusions of money to continue to operate. There were no buyers to be had. Experts generally agree that they would have had to close down operations and sell off their operations piece meal to car companies around the world. There wouldn't be a GM or Chrysler w/o government intervention. When the credit market froze up, car sales fell off a cliff and money to continue operations was not flowing in.
Brian Andrews
8:16 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
MS it is only outside of c11 that GM needed government cash. The whole point of c11 is you legally stop paying your vendors and with court oversight, the business continues to collect its receivables -cash while it renegotiates it's payables, labor costs and other debts. GM would of had the protection from creditors and the power to right size it's labor contracts under c11. This is what Obama wanted to prevent. Don't forget the injustice done to GM bond holders. I don't know if you know the difference between being a bond holder v. a share holder but a bond hold trades higher potential returns in exchange for being a secured creditor in the event of a collapse or bankruptcy. Our government screwed them for the UAW.
8:28 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Not true BA, liquidation was the only path for GM if not for the government bailout. What don't you understand about a frozen credit market? Sure they would have had protection from their creditors and restructuring of their labor contracts but w/o a significant capital infusion they were dead. You can't stiff your creditors and then expect them to extend more credit. Equity and Hedge funds could not have acquired the financing to intervene in the credit freeze that was 2008. As a result of that freeze car sales fell off the cliff, so much for receivables. Ford was able to hang in there because they had $150 million salted away. This was not the case for GM or Chrysler. As far as bond holders go, they were bailed out by the government in the bank mess and were completely undeserving of such treatment on the publics dime.
Brian Andrews
11:39 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
MS your response to my post indicates you didn't understand GM's condition at the time, the worldwide finacial markets, c11, what occurred in 2008 or the legal rights of bond holders. You suggest the federal gov rightly spent billions of borrowed dollars to prop up a company to weak for c11. Do you understand the difference between a corporation viable enough for c11 And one headed for c13? I, at the time, had more cofidenced in GM than you or Obama. GM makes great products ( I own a Buick) and could of emerged from c11 as strong company with a great future. But the unions would of taken a haircut so Obama could not have that. In the end he spent money we don't have to buy a political faction he needs. Lovely.
cost, high retiree costs
10:58 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Lyn, with all due respect, I think you have it backwards. The reason for the 2008 financial meltdown was the the Wall Street banks "owned" the government. They took ridiculous risks to maximize profit knowing the government would have to bail them out if things went wrong. Wall Street used the government and it's people as a total tool. The fools in Washington were owned by Wall Street and not vice versa.
Phyllis Stager
11:08 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
I thought that the meltdown was a result of millions of bundled sub prime mortgages 'sold' to Wall Street investors (bundled mortgages historically excellent money makers because of the long term and the interest within). But the fly in the ointment was that the multiple Community Recovery Acts, starting in the Carter 70's administration all they way up to Clinton Administration, were being implemented by pressuring banks and loaning institutions to give these non credit worthy home loans. The pressure was subtle but nonetheless there. When these home owners found themselves in over their heads, they walked away and Wall Street was holding a monstrous government backed disaster. One of my sons got one of these deals....great house, he was between jobs, didn't find another job good enough and lost his downpayment AND house. We, as a family, tried to warn him...but the deal was too good and the house was magnificent.
11:02 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Not sure what you are getting at.
Are you replying to my comment:
"I do think the government needed to intervene with the financial institutions because it just might have meant a collapse of our economic system."
11:20 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
But, just to comment on what you said.
There were risks taken.
The beginning of the the crisis goes back to Barney wanting everyone to have a home - which meant the banks were forced into lending to those less than credit worthy. Then they tried dumping those mortgages off in packages. And, risks did mount. And everyone jumped in on trying to make money.
And you also had Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac helping to bring about the subprime mortgage crisis.
I don't know that Wall Street expected Washington to bail them out, as that was not the norm and it was under Bush, a Republican, who stay out of private industry. But, he believed, against many in his party, that TARP was needed. And, I think he even had a potential amount set for the auto industry in his $700 TARP plan.
Phyllis Stager
11:31 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
I agree, lyn. I disagreed with much of the Bush policies. It is all such a mess and it has only gotten worse. I do think unless we pull in our belt government $-wise as we are heading for a cliff. Our financial situation as it stands will not get better. A change in leadership to someone experienced in matters of finance and financial successes rather than community organizing might give us a leg up. Ideology should not take precedence over the survival of this nation. Once we get back on our feet economically we can then tend to our ideologic differences and commonalities. But first, we need to save this great country.
11:27 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
I'm enjoying talking to you both Lyn and Phyllis. There is a new book on the market that I think you two would love. It is written by a women named Sheila Bair and is entitled "Bull by the Horns". I've enjoyed Sheila's interviews throughout the years. Her unemotional and unbiased intelligence just jumps right out at you. You know many believe if women were in charge of the government and Wall Street that 2008 wouldn't have happened. Anyhow, Sheila Bair was head of the FDIC for the years just prior to 2008 and just after. The FDIC, as you know, secures bank deposits as well as protects the taxpayer's money. She tried her best to head off the problem and then resolve the problem when it hit. She doesn't try to impress the reader with sophisticated jargon, rather, she gives a great overview of the egos and special interest that resulted in the bail out of Wall Street and the no concern for Main Street. I highly recommend this book ladies.
11:46 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
I'll check it out.
She seems very well respected.
Always good to get another perspective.
Phyllis Stager
11:38 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Thanks, Murphy...same goes here! Will see about getting a used copy on Amazon. From the date of publication she was on top of this before the 'get-go'.
11:46 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
Phyllis, I've followed Sheila Bair for years now and she's one of the smartest people I know of. She doesn't try to impress with her intellect nor does she place a political slant on things. It's such an easy read for such a complex subject. As a funny aside, a few months ago I purchased an iPad 3. Don't get me wrong, I love old bookstores and books, but I'm inhaling books on this tablet. And how it's changed publishing. I was watching CNN one night and she was being interviewed about her new book. With this iPad, by the time the interview was over, I had downloaded the Kindle edition for $12.99 and was flipping through the initial pages. These ebooks have become impulse purchases like the products at a store register are. It's wild I tell you.
Phyllis Stager
11:53 am on Monday, October 1, 2012
My son wanted to buy me a Kindle several years ago....I couldn't imagine 'not turning pages' and told him never mind. I was just as recalcitrant about an Iphone until I got one. Wow...I love my Iphone!! Maybe I will think about an Ipad...but I just can't give up yet on the idea of holding the book in my hand. Reading is probably my #1 hobby! LOL!
12:03 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Phyllis, you sound just like me. I bought the iPad for other purposes than reading books. My attitude was that you would have to pry an actual book from my cold dead hands. The iPad quickly changed all that. The display is so eye- strain friendly and you can read from any position w/o the logistical problem of holding a book. You can highlight sections and print out your highlights to easily refresh the important points quickly. Heck, I'm reading as the notification of your posts show up in the middle of my screen. Some think that you need to buy a Kindle to read a Kindle book but Apple has an Kindle eReader app at no charge so that you can read their books on the iPad. Apples new retina display is incredible.
Phyllis Stager
12:41 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Welllll.....I will explore! Your resounding advocacy is making me think about some consideration. I assume it must connect to the internet and where I live in out in the boondocks I cant really access the internet thru a 4G type tower (even though I pay $20 per mo for the service from ATT. I access the internet on my computer and phone from a separate (not ATT) provider tower that is not yet equipped for high speed. I wonder if down loading a book from the internet would take an eternity. They say that they will upgrade the tower in the next few months....
12:49 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
I can't speak to that Phyllis, but I have AT&T high speed and by the time I've ordered the book off the Amazon website and return to my bookshelf, the book is just finishing the download process....about 15 seconds in all. Another nice feature is that you could read in the dark and not have to disrupt a significant other.
Phyllis Stager
1:01 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
When my tower upgrades....I will definitely seriously consider it! Thanks, Murphy!
1:30 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Who wants to talk about why we're in this mess? It took 8 years to get us here! Did people really think it could all be reversed in 3 to 4 years?!!!!!
Kate Bigam
1:38 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
How do dreck & lies - poorly written ones, at that - like this get published on Patch? I know it's easy to get a blog post published on this site, but it really tarnishes Patch's integrity & news believability when any old Joe can click "publish" on her uneducated, nonsensical views & share them with the community. I wish Patch would rethink its blogging policy to ensure that posts are, at the very least, coherent - even better, truthful.
joe ponikarovsky
1:56 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
i know. this poster is the antoine dodson of patch. "hide your wife, hide your kids cuz obama rapin' everybody up in here!"
isn't there some filter or base level of professionalism a blog poster needs?
John McMillan
8:05 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
If you take a gander at this blogger's history, you will understand that this type of nonsensical ranting and raving that has become her hallmark, has been developing for some time now. It's almost funny...almost.
Phyllis Stager
1:55 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Gee, Kate, whatever you think of the presentation, free speech is alive and well in the USA. The Patch is pretty decent and tolerant to allow a forum for any and all. Are you one of those who want to control what we read, eat, wear, hear??? Isn't it great that you can express your opinion...but the inclination to decide for others what they should think, write or read is a bit off putting. Express your disagreement with what you read but to want to make decisions that are not yours to make is a bit disappointing.
Patrice Tyler
3:28 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
I think that Kate's pont is, yes, everyone has a right to their opinion, but, when you are trying to maintain some form of professional style writing, you probably shouldn't post a piece that sounds like it was written by your confused Grandmother who forgot to take her meds. This lady literally sounds drunk or at the very least medicated. Doesn't matter what side you are on, this story is ridiculous.
Patrice Tyler
3:40 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Anyone who wants to praise this blog post should go and read a few other gems by this author. No joke, she sounds drunk. You'd think that patch would have a better political point of view to publish than what sounds like a bored housewife on Xanax.
4:08 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
All of you bashing this woman don't have to agree with her.
There have been extremes on both sides blogging here.
But, you have to admit it also generated a discussion of other topics other than her statements. It is hard to tell if she is trying to make a statement by stating the extreme. It did get peoples attention. There are 73 comments so far, and not all are about analyzing her motives. It did provoke some intelligent exchange on here.
A blog is a persons opinion. If you have another, write it.
4:33 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
One other thought... I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but....
How many of you have a relative who have an opinion that they openly state, or do something in public that is embarrassing? So, what would your reaction be if someone walked up to your table at Wendy's and bashed them? Its different sitting there in front of your computer, isn't it, to call someone a drunk or druggie. Let them say what they will, and be a little more kind. And, then just give your differing opinion. You bunch of coldhearted excuses for a human being! (sarcasm, in case you morons didn't get it)
joe ponikarovsky
10:06 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
lyn: a private conversation is different than going onto a local news site and writing a blog post. if someone interjected into a private conversation and started bashing you, yes they'd be a total jerk. if someone does so here, well they may still be a jerk, but you invited them to comment just by the forum in which you've stated your views.
4:30 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
I believe that the net effect of the 24/7 talking head networks like Fox and MSNBC has led to a cranking up of the volume in the heartland. I don't believe it to be a coincidence that the hardened political positions in the heartland have coincided with the hardened political positions in Washington. It is my hope that, when the election is over, Democrats, Independents and Republicans will prevail upon Washington to find common ground in order to address the major issues that confront us as a nation. Are we willing to put aside our pride and egos for the good of future generations?
4:46 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Well said!
That's why I will not listen to either. OK, maybe once a month I'll listen to BOTH to see how each might analyze the same event - just to see how extreme the comments will be. But, I do prefer when the one network at least will have both a Rep and Dem to discuss an issue, rather than just represent one party.
Christopher London
5:15 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
This is what happens to a woman who has lost her mind living in the darkness of misguided fear
10:43 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
This lady has definitely lost her mind. If this was a comedy piece, it would have worked better, because the insanity of it, would have been understood as supposedly being funny. But this isn't a comedy piece. This is some scary stuff pouring out of the authors head that represents how she really sees the world around her. It is like a massive overdose of conservative talking points, all blended together in a windstorm.
John Patton
11:02 pm on Monday, October 1, 2012
Hey you guys - Come on don't pick on Kathleen. It's not her fault she thinks Obama is gonna steal our stuff. After all Kathleen lives in a semi-gated (all Strictly White) suburban Avon Lake neighborhood - so she has never seen a black person before, and Due to the way her father raised her, she assumes immediately, that the black guy is gonna steal your stuff. The pain killers she has been hooked on since her knee injury 8 years ago probably don't help, but at her core it's the racism that really drives her paranoia. However wacky we may think she is - she does have a right to post her opinion (and random paranoid thoughts) just like you or I do in whats left of America. So here's to Kathleen! Make it a double 10mg hydrocodone night & throw in a Gin and Tonic so your more comfortable throwing around your racism.
Note to editor of the patch. This post is strictly my opinion, and in no ways represents the actual Kathleen Obrien Wilhelm person who posts blogs on your site. This is a fictional representation for comical purposes only, similar to her post on our President. Awww who am I trying to kid. Anyone who thinks Im tellig the truth just add a reply with "truth" in the body.
Bottoms up count chocula!
Garry Kanter
12:33 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
You beat me to it! She expects to see him beating it out of her neighborhood with a bunch of TVs and 8-track players.
Ed Fisher
7:07 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Thanks for throwing the humor into this. Sure did need it. I guess these threads become too serious most of the time. I get caught up in it, too. I'm a supporter of the President, and have been personally offended by Romneys attitude toward a group of Americans that I'm a part of ( the 47%). But I have to lighten up some. Sincerity causes us to become far too dry. We all need to laugh at this stuff a little more.
Joe Giles
7:08 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Has the President actually kept any of his many promises regarding the economy?
Garry Kanter
8:20 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Certainly not all of them. This makes him unique among politicians, especially presidents.
It's also proof that he was born in Kenya, is a card-carrying Socialist, and of course, observes the Muslim faith.
Ed Fisher
7:31 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
You have asked a question that you believe you already have the answer for. This is a tactic to either provoke or prove superior mentality. Doesn't matter. At this point, I think most peoples minds are made up. We know who we are voting for, and we know why. The rest is just pointless rhetoric.
AL Parent
9:27 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
This is why we cannot agree on anything. A lot of you are acting like ignorant uneducated bullies by belittling Mrs. Wilhelm. She may have her own opinions and views because it is a "free" country and freedom of speech is one of our constitutional rights last time I checked. If you have such a problem with what she has written, write your own blog. I might not agree with what she wrote, but I am not going to become a "psychiatrist" and diagnois that she may be a substance abuser or needs psychiatric help. There are other candidates to vote for besides Romney and Obama. Democrats or Republicans should stop voting in the same people year after year that have not continued to help this state or any other!
Garry Kanter
9:47 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Yes, but the "psychiatrists" are entitled to express their opinions as well.
Phyllis Stager
10:01 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Well said, Mr. Parent. Discuss the topic, pros, cons, etc. Personal attacks which have nothing to do with the topic are somewhat inane. The blogger provides an avenue for us to express our opinion. Just think, if she hadn't contributed her blog...what ever you think of it, none of us would have written a word here! LOL! Some people are just have mean hearts.
2:44 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
You are free to use the "Flag as inappropriate" link on any one of the posts you find offensive, or otherwise deserving of moderation.
Phyllis Stager
10:04 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
@ Garry....even an 'armchair' psychiatrist can have opinion, but these opinions are usually based in no knowledge of psychiatry, and grounded in vitriol.
Garry Kanter
10:38 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
I generally will only defend the words and ideas that I post.
I will follow that in this case, as well.
10:09 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
I agree that some of the responses were out of bounds. That said, the blog writer did not put forth a logical argument. You must know your audience. The people on this site expect more than just flame throwing. If you through a ball against a wall softly, it returns to you softly. If you throw a fastball against a wall it just might come back and smack you in the head.
11:37 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Class division
Capitalism is the social system which now exists in all countries of the world. Under this system, the means for producing and distributing goods (the land, factories, technology, transport system etc) are owned by a small minority of people. We refer to this group of people as the capitalist class. The majority of people must sell their ability to work in return for a wage or salary (who we refer to as the working class.)
The working class are paid to produce goods and services which are then sold for a profit. The profit is gained by the capitalist class because they can make more money selling what we have produced than we cost to buy on the labour market. In this sense, the working class are exploited by the capitalist class. The capitalists live off the profits they obtain from exploiting the working class whilst reinvesting some of their profits for the further accumulation of wealth.
This is what we mean when we say there are two classes in society. It is a claim based upon simple facts about the society we live in today. This class division is the essential feature of capitalism. It may be popular to talk (usually vaguely) about various other 'classes' existing such as the 'middle class', but it is the two classes defined here that are the key to understanding capitalism.
11:37 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
It may not be exactly clear which class some relatively wealthy people are in. But there is no ambiguity about the status of the vast majority of the world's population. Members of the capitalist class certainly know who they are. And most members of the working class know that they need to work for a wage or salary in order to earn a living (or are dependent upon somebody who does, or depend on state benefits.)
11:38 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
In capitalism, the motive for producing goods and services is to sell them for a profit, not to satisfy people's needs. The products of capitalist production have to find a buyer, of course, but this is only incidental to the main aim of making a profit, of ending up with more money than was originally invested. This is not a theory that we have thought up but a fact you can easily confirm for yourself by reading the financial press. Production is started not by what consumers are prepared to pay for to satisfy their needs but by what the capitalists calculate can be sold at a profit. Those goods may satisfy human needs but those needs will not be met if people do not have sufficient money.
The profit motive is not just the result of greed on behalf of individual capitalists. They do not have a choice about it. The need to make a profit is imposed on capitalists as a condition for not losing their investments and their position as capitalists. Competition with other capitalists forces them to reinvest as much of their profits as they can afford to keep their means and methods of production up to date.
11:39 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
As you will see, we hold that it is the class division and profit motive of capitalism that is at the root of most of the world's problems today, from starvation to war, to alienation and crime. Every aspect of our lives is subordinated to the worst excesses of the drive to make profit. In capitalist society, our real needs will only ever come a poor second to the requirements of profit.
It is widely assumed that capitalism means a free market economy. But it is possible to have capitalism without a free market. The systems that existed in the U.S.S.R and exist in China and Cuba demonstrate this. These class-divided societies are widely called 'socialist'. A cursory glance at what in fact existed there reveals that these countries were simply 'state capitalist'. In supposedly 'socialist' Russia, for example, there still existed wage slavery, commodity production, buying, selling and exchange, with production only taking place when it was viable to do so. 'Socialist' Russia continued to trade according to the dictates of international capital and, like every other capitalist, state, was prepared to go to war to defend its economic interests. The role of the Soviet state became simply to act as the functionary of capital in the exploitation of wage labour, setting targets for production and largely controlling what could or could not be produced.
11:39 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
We therefore feel justified in asserting that such countries had nothing to do with socialism as we define it. In fact, socialism as we define it could not exist in one country alone—like capitalism it must be a global system of society.
It is also possible (at least in theory) to have a free market economy that is not capitalist. Such a 'market economy' would involve farmers, artisans and shopkeepers each producing a particular product that they would exchange via the medium of money. There would be no profit-making and no class division—just independent producers exchanging goods for their mutual benefit. But it is doubtful whether such an economy has ever existed. The nearest that may have come to it would have been in some of the early colonial settlements in North America. Some Greens wish to see a return to this kind of economy. We do not think that it is a viable alternative for modern society. Such a system would almost inevitability lead to capital accumulation and profit making—the definitive features of capitalism.
11:39 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
This concludes the lesson of "What is Capitalism". Thank you and have a nice day.
Phyllis Stager
12:04 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Just a thought. The so called working class, I guess includes anyone working for someone else or any business enterprise. Are they not motivated to make 'more' money, say, more than they need for the essentials? Would this be considered somewhat of a profit if it is more than they need? In the communist/socialist system they would have their 'income' dictated by the gov't, not by their own enterprise nor would they have a union to represent them. In our capitalistic system these options are open to them. So even though the communist/socialist system is capitalist per your explanation, there are certain liberties denied them. In our system the opportunities are there for anyone to break thru the barrier from working class to 'profiteer', whereas in communist/socialist system that would be near impossible.
James Thomas
2:59 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
One Question Rex,
who is this "We" you keep refering to? Is Rex T Jeeper a cabal or just an old fashioned aristocrat using the imperial pronoun?
Phyllis Stager
11:49 am on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Wow, Rex, why don't you start a blog so we can discuss this and the pros and cons? I find what you have written interesting. I am not sure what I can conclude by your excellent dissertation. It is a 'definition' without an analysis of advantages and disadvantages. And...what is the alternative?
Phyllis Stager
12:13 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
I guess I should ask, what would global socialism look like? Would we all be whistling into our house , driving our cars, watching our TV's, using our cell phones..... carbon copies of our neighbors, whether state, national or global citizenry, happy as larks in the meadow?
Stow Resident
12:29 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
An article like this just makes the Stow Patch look like a joke and not a reliable place to come to for news. Makes me want to find another website to go to for local news.
Amanda Harnocz
12:32 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Hi there, just to clarify ... this is not an article. It is a blog.
Stow Resident
4:04 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
Amanda, no offense but don't you have some type of review process to be sure a blog you put on your site meets some type of standards for truthfulness? A blog you put on your site is a reflection of the content of your site. I am willing to bet that many people won't see much of a distinction between an article on here and a blog on here.
2:26 pm on Tuesday, October 2, 2012
You neer- do -wells Bully a person who gave her free speech and opinion, and you didnt even read her entire Blog. Wow how pathetic. How predicable you are. kathleen will survive another day, but you?? Barack Hussein Obama failed me as a citizen I gave him a chance, and just like a bad plummer or investment company he didnt please me " he's fired..
9:41 am on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
I essentially agree with you Phyllis. I would like to point out that there is a distinct difference between the bailout's affect on jobs and an improving credit market's affect on jobs. Also, it is correct that China demands a 50/50 partnership requirement for any foreign company doing business in Chinese markets. I understand why GE has to compete there butvI don't care for China's heavy hand.
Keith Best
4:34 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of this country was recently downgraded to 1.3%.
This is abysmal. The upcoming jobs report will show America to have a 44th month of unemployment over 8%. When you figure in those that have given up looking for work, it's closer to 19%. THAT is abysmal.
Median Family Income has dropped $4,000 under Obama. More people are out of work now then when Obama took office.
The above are the facts. Why are some Americans continuing to support a president who's only experience was as a US Senator in his first term, who spent most of that first term running for higher office. Before that he was a state senator in his first term who voted "present" over 100 times instead of a yea or nay vote.
Romney has run a business, a successful Olympics and a state.
One has "Executive Experience" , the other is still trying to figure out what that is after almost 4 years.
5:38 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
Keith Best, I compliment you on your accurate facts but disagree with your interpretation. A financial meltdown and the resultant housing meltdown that it created equals a tough, hard road. I voted for McCain but didn't delude myself into thinking that "happy days are here again" could be achieved in 3 or 4 years. 15 years of economic sin will take longer than 4 years to resolve. It would be helpful if Congress would quit bowing to the banking industry on loan modifications at the expense of Main Street. Until the housing market recovers, we're just farting in the wind.
Christopher London
8:06 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
It is pure lunacy to make the President of our country one of the most dishonest, deceptive, hollow fraudulent con-men to ever seek political office; a vulture capitalist who during a period of increasing globalization, basically led the effort to gutt America's industrial heartland, extract American wealth and ingenuity, bankrupt companies, lay off workers and collapse communities so that a handful of suits could stuff $100's of millions in the Cayman Islands. This is not the kind of capitalism that I support. As stated by Conservative Republican Newt Gingrich:
"The Bain model is to go in at a very low price, borrow an immense amount of money, pay Bain an immense amount of money and leave. I'll let you decide if that's really good capitalism. I think that's exploitation." He added: "Criticizing one businessman for one set of practices is not an assault on capitalism. I am totally for free enterprise, I'm totally for capitalism," Gingrich said. He "believes the big institutions are dangerous, whether they're big banks, big government, or big labor. I find powerful rich people rigging games very distasteful."
Romney is running around America like he is a true builder and titan of American industry, the veritable reincarnation of Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller or Michael Dell and he is not. Romney is the Mormon Madoff, a Gekko who is a Racketeer: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10151023931102030
James Thomas
3:03 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
And he stepped on flowers and kicked puppies too!!!!!!!
Christopher London
12:13 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Romney And Ryan: The Right Kind Of "Welfare Queens" http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2012083422/romney-and-ryan-right-kind-welfare-queens
3:41 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Tell it to your own areas Patch readers and get out of this states Patch unless you really have an interest in this city.
Phyllis Stager
8:04 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@ Mr. London: I have to say that was a well written article. But some of the conclusions based on fact are a little skewed. Interesting that all the companies that he lists that Romney was involved with took advantage of what various states offered as enticements to build businesses in those states would be classified as 'welfare' or government help. I think, you might look at these as 'incentives' to boost the economy of what ever state that offers them. Maybe Romney's companies should have turned down these incentives? Is that what is implied? Or maybe not even try to start or improve businesses....is that what the author is saying?
And should Ryan have turned down the social security benefits for 2 years from his father's death to help with college? Even though his father had paid in to SS or all his working life for purposes such as helping the children of a dead parent? His father, dying at age 55 probably paid in more than the 2 years of support Ryan received. And Ryan's mother, after the death of his father went back to school and started a small business. This disqualified her for SS death benefits from her husband's death. Just think, she could have kicked back sat at home and eaten Doritos and received SS benefits (to use a 'metaphor' supplied by the author).
Phyllis Stager
8:41 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
And, why, Mr. London, do you think Texas is the #1business state for 2012? Why did all those companies rush from California to Texas? I guess you could class those moves into Texas as providing for 'Welfare Queens' of business, instead of business incentives. Texas also has a $9 billion 'rainy day' fund. Although Kasich has helped Ohio out of some of its mess, it still has a long way to go. I sure would rather have Texas's financial outlook than Ohio's. Ohio could use some of the 'Welfare Queens' as described in Mr. Heath's piece.
I grew up in Ohio, I love the beauty of the state and my fond memories of Ohio, but right now I am glad I live in Texas. I wish for Ohio the same fiscal advantages that we have in Texas. You need some of those alleged 'Welfare Queens' to come into your state to provide jobs and boost the economy.
9:19 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I agree with you Phyllis but think Mr. London was suggesting that Romney/Ryan engaged in some of the same activities that they now criticize. People will avail themselves of benefits the government offers. Why then turn on those people and suggest they're dependent on the government when you've taken advantage of similar programs?
Phyllis Stager
10:34 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@ Murphy: Can you honestly equivocate making choices based on 'saving' money, or taking advantage of a fiscally friendly setting for 'success or profit' to becoming 'dependent' on other peoples money as a lifestyle? I don't think they have 'turned' on those who avail them selves of this hands-up option, they want to provide an alternative, such as jobs.
9:14 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
BA, you keep insisting that I don't understand chapter 11 , then go on to avoid my primary question: Yes chapter 11 would have given GM relief from their creditors but that just one side of the balance sheet. car companies have huge cash burn rates per month. Once again, in a frozen credit market where was GM to raise additional capital? The bond holders?
Brian Andrews
11:32 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
MS the whole point of c11 is to temporarily, dramatically reduce a company's burn rate so it can reorganize.
10:38 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Phyllis, if you lost your job in 2008 as a result of the financial meltdown then it seems to me that those folks needed legitimate help every bit as Ryan did. Secondly, if Romney can use tax loopholes to stash money in the Caymans then why would one be a bum to take advantage if the child income tax credit? I wasn't responding to tax abatement w for businesses per se.
Phyllis Stager
11:00 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Gosh, Murphy, I am all for legitimate help for those in dire circumstances. We need to be there for them as a nation. I just don't think there is an analytical equivalency to needing welfare, food stamps, medicaid to being desirous of 'saving' money/taxes where ever you can and taking advantage of those settings/laws which legitimately provide this.
11:04 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Sure there is Phyllis. It's called life. If we kicked middle class seniors out of nursing homes by taking away their Medicaid subsidies, then business interests would definitely be affected.
Phyllis Stager
11:22 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I don't think the plan is to take away Medicaid subsidies. Also, those in nursing homes if 'penniless' are required to apply their SS income to the nursing home costs. As a former DON in a few nursing homes I observed interesting financial machinations. One very wealthy elderly lady had 4 kids who made sure that all her assets were in their hands so she could be declared penniless and the government would pay her fare. One son headed up the company she founded which had evolved into providing McDonald's fried pies, one son had a huge cattle ranch, another son retired to Wimberly, Texas and would visit her twice a year in one of those huge RV's with bedroom, etc. She was such a delightful lady, I will never forget her....or the manner in which her kids rigged the system. She could have been is a 'high dollar' nursing home, or at least have a room in one of those mansions the kids lived in. She was not bed-fast or incompetent.
4:45 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
What I have a problem with, is that "Mrs. A" might have $800,000 when she enters a nursing home and "Mrs. B" might have $200,000 when she enters. Both have to spend all that but $1500 before their care is completely subsidized. But "Mrs. A" had to pay $600,000 more of her own money for the same amount of care. That does not seem equitable and seems very wrong. Both receive the same amount of care, but the system penalizes the lady who was more successful.
11:25 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
You missed my point Phyllis. My point was that, be it tax breaks for business or subsidies to the people, business in general is affected by government policy.
11:34 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Well BA, we've reached a stalemate in our discussions. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Enjoyed the back and forth.
Brian Andrews
11:52 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Enjoy the rest of your weekend and go ND tonight and the Browns tomorrow!
Phyllis Stager
11:37 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I don't disagree with you...business and subsidies to the people ARE affected by government policy. So..does that make businesses which take advantage of policies 'Welfare Queens'? I don't think so. And there is a difference in looking to the government to 'provide', which the $$90 billion to green companies in the past four years seemed to have done, from and using legal means to 'save' money and increase profit.
11:47 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I think he overstated his case with the "welfare queens" label Phyllis. Businesses would be foolish not take full advantage of the system. I do take exception to your green energy comments. The Apollo program comes to mind when the green energy issue is debated. New frontiers in science always have a high failure rate in the early years. That is the nature of the business. Solyndra was troubling because the government had a heads up about their issues but, in general, as you see in medical research, when we expand the frontiers of our knowledge we should expect to experience a certain level of failure. In the past the U.S. has had the luxury of turning it's back on green energy but now the rest of the world is forging ahead in that field and we would be foolish to forfeit our place within the green energy field. Enjoyed talking to you Phyllis but I'm going outside to enjoy the day..Talk to you later....
Phyllis Stager
12:09 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Well, for when you come back to you computer....(LOL). I am all for Green research and alternatives to current fossil fuel usage. However, before we cut the pipeline by shutting down coal mines and stopping oil and gas recovery, lets have that green system assuredly in place. Its far from that and we are paying the price. The ethanol (corn additive) gas has been discovered as more polluting than if we had not added it. It reminds of the retooling of 'smaller' toilet tanks to save water and it ultimately demanded greater water usage. We are simply led around by the nose, victims of the passion of the idiocracy which has the restricted tunnel vision of their idealistic goals overlooking a common sense approach to think out all the consequences of jumping on the bus with a snowstorm coming forgetting your coat and gloves.
9:22 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Phyllis, I had a great bike ride yesterday. I think we've had a pretty balanced approach to energy. We've drilled for more domestic oil than we have the past 20 years. Natural gas is an exploding industry in this country. Texas has been the beneficiary of high oil prices and states like Ohio will be increasingly benefitting from the vast reserves of natural gas we have beneath us. This natural gas situation might prove to be a game changer for this country. I'm excited about it's prospects. I would like to take this moment to put in a good word on behalf of toilets everywhere. Don't give up on toilets Phyllis!!! The original water-saving toilets did require two flushes thereby defeating the purpose. The situation has changed. It has become a "you get what you pay for" proposition. A couple of years ago I purchased and installed a Koehler toilet for my mother in her advancing age. My original intent was to purchase a seat level toilet which is higher than the old toilets so she could have an easier time in her fragile condition. It was a water efficient toilet that works perfectly with one flush. The Koehler uses 1/2 of the water as a traditional toilet and it's new design passes with flying colors. My brother, on the other hand, purchased a Chinese-made toilet and one flush is not satisfying let's say. So please Phyllis, don't lose faith in toilets..........
Phyllis Stager
9:42 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Thanks for a great laugh this morning. Good way to start the day. When I bought this house 22 years ago it had one of those small tank toilets in the master bath. Some years later the old codger of a plumber I used was able to find a discarded old big tank toilet and he replaced the thing. He did let me know that what he was doing was illegal! Can you imagine?
A few days ago Daryll Hannah made national news as she was arrested a few miles from my place for protesting the Keystone pipeline on a local ranch. Now here is my quandary: I am FOR the Keystone pipe line but had they chosen my property to run that pipe thru...I would be up in arms, too! I know that is selfish and even irrational. My nephew who is an environmental 'engineer' told me my place would not be at risk because there is some 'wetlands' protection in regard to my property. You would never know it after the 5 years of severe drought we just went through!
9:55 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I'm not opposed to the pipeline per se Phyllis. Canada seems willing to redirect the pipeline around the aquifer that was at the heart of the debate and that's fine with me. What I think a lot of folks don't realize though, is that the purpose for extending the pipeline to the ports of Louisiana is ultimately to ship the oil overseas to the world market. The highest bidder is going to receive that oil. Excluding the estimated 5,000 jobs, it really doesn't matter if the pipeline is directed to the southern ports of the U.S. or the western ports of Canada. It's less expensive for the Canadian oil interests to use our infrastructure and southern ports as opposed to their geographically challenged infrastructure. It just seems to me that this issue has been used by both parties as a way to incite political passion more than true American interest.
Phyllis Stager
10:13 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I don't get it. Why must it be 'exported'. Why not refine it and increase the domestic supply reducing the arab import needs? I agree, its all politics. Its mind boggling. I read somewhere that if the price of a barrel of oil went down to $75.00 Iran would be so crippled economically they would pretty much fold from the disruption. The sanctions are stirring that up right now, but is that enough?
10:22 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Phyllis, if the Canadian oil companies built a pipeline to their western port cities, then their transportation costs would be much greater. They would have to ship the oil down the west coast of the U.S. and continue down the west coast of Mexico, through the Panama Canal and then over to Europe. By directing the oil to our southern ports they avoid significant transportation costs. They just have to transport the oil around the tip of Florida and then on to Europe. Canadian oil interests care about $$$$ and not necessarily U.S. interest. Well, off to Sunday brunch, will catch up to you later. Enjoy your Sunday Phyllis.
Joseph Robert
11:25 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
This column puts the Cuyahoga Falls Patch in league with the low-life "National Enquirer" and "Dog Fancy" magazine. Get real, LOL.
9:48 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Joseph Robert - Alameda, CA
If you don't like it - get off our local Patch and quit posting your garbage all over the country's different Patch networks.
Keep your comments local and quit using the Patch as a nonpaid forum for promoting your platform or candidate or biased links.
I wish the Patch would kick off those people posting the same comments in more than one Patch area.
Joseph Robert
10:08 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Are you doing your Hitler impersonation again, and ordering people to do things! Doesn't look good!
P.S. -- You have no idea if I am in Alameda, Cuyahoga Falls or Miami! So, stop your jumping to conclusions with ZERO evidence. And, I am not in California, FYI! So there!
Joseph Robert
11:27 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
1. Romney said Obama is "cutting $716 billion from Medicare." FALSE
2. Romney said there are 23 million Americans out of work. FALSE, the correct figure is 12.5 million, or about half that number.
3. Romney said there is no tax provision that gives companies a tax deduction for moving jobs overseas. FALSE
4. Romney said that Obamacare "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have." FALSE. The law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care.
Phyllis Stager
12:03 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Hey Joseph....you do NOT get tax deductions when you move jobs overseas FOR moving them over seas...you get established tax deductions for the expenses of shutting down or relocating businesses anywhere... not a law SPECIFIC incentive to move overseas.
As to the unemployment figures...check out how the survey is done. 150,000 households are called. They say whether they got a job or not. There ARE 23 million who are either unemployed, stuck in part-time jobs because they can't find full time jobs, or want a job and have STOPPED LOOKING. These are not counted in the above survey.
The Medicare $716 billion is in part a reduction of the amount of fees paid to providers (hospitals, docs, nursing homes, rehabs, etc.) These entities have said that they will just refuse Medicare patients, as the cut in fees will ruin them.
I read that specific part of Obamacare which provides for the so called board to agree or disagree with a doc's decisions on patient care and require that the doc comply with THEIR dictum. READ it, Joseph.
In a column a couple of weeks ago in the NY Times, former Obama advisor Steven Rattner wrote: "We need death panels. Well maybe not death panels exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently, rationing by its proper name-the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.'
Phyllis Stager
12:11 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Even Barney Frank is against the 'board' which cloaks its purpose in terms of being a board whose purpose is to cap the total amount of money Medicare recipients could receive for care. The decisions will be base on cost instead of the best possible health care outcomes for the patients.
Joseph Robert
11:29 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
5. Romney disagreed with Obama saying that Romney planned a $5 trillion tax cut over the next decade." HALF TRUE. Romney does plan such a cut, and Politifact said Romney hasn't explained how he will fully make it revenue neutral.
6. Romney accused Obama of double the Federal deficit. FALSE.
7. Romney said incomes are down $4300 since Obama took office. FALSE.
8. Romney said he "…will not reduce the share (of taxes)" paid by high-income individuals." FALSE. Romney wants to cut personal taxes by 20 percent for everyone, including the wealthy, as the Romney campaign website states.
What else is Mitt LYING about? His promises to the American people?
You can't trust lying extremist, Mitt Romney.
Read about the 27 total Mitt Romney debate lies at:
http://factcheck.org, http://mediamatters.org , http://thinkprogress.org and the Washington Post Fact Check Blog at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker
Phyllis Stager
12:23 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
OH Joseph...you are so funny! Lets just face it...Romney is a certified liar and Obama has never lied in his entire life! Obama the only TRUTHSAYER to ever hold the office of the President of the USA. Obama's 4 years are so transparent and honest...I am just flummoxed at how we got so lucky to get such a great leader.
Joe Giles
11:30 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Biden says he, Obama want to raises taxes by $1 trillion
If you think he is going to stop there, you are crazy
12:33 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I have to wonder what would happen to all that "stuff" everyone worries about if the electricity stopped and the oil was gone. No need for any of it. Can't take it with you anyway. You know the saying, "You can't eat money." You also can't eat all that stuff you've worked so hard to hoarde. The best things in life are free. If you can't truly see that, my condolences to you. The sun rises and sets without money, without stuff. Seeds grow and die all without money, without stuff. Your heart pumps blood, your lungs process the air, all without money, without stuff. Children laugh and play without worrying about money, about stuff. Maybe you'd be a happier lady without all your "stuff" that you're so worried about losing. Travel the world and see how those exist without mountains of "stuff". Drive through the state and see how others live. "Walk a mile in their shoes", as they say. Those cheap clothes can keep you warm just like the expensive ones. Life is short. Life is what you make of it. And all the money and stuff in the world isn't going to change that fact. Look around at what really matters and learn to see with your own eyes. Stuff is just stuff. If your house burned down but your family and pets we're all alive and well, I'd like to think you'd realize how blessed and lucky you are. But I fear you'd just be worried about your stuff...
12:47 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
That was very profound RTJ. You focus on the greater picture which we sometimes in the frustration of day to day life lose sight of. All I need for happiness is my family, food, a warm fire, my ipad and my bicycle. I can even do w/o the double stuff in the middle of an Oreo.
Phyllis Stager
12:57 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Well, Rex, I agree with you in principle. Just thinking back to childhood. We did have electricity and enough food and a roof. But what would it be like with no electricity, no computers, TV, cars, and so forth. I know it would be a little more difficult, but some would actually survive and would be so busy doing so, these current issues and entertainments would have no place in our day to day lives. I have my horses and donkeys for transportation, plenty of seeds for planting the garden for food, a small lake for fishing, 11 chickens, a well with a hand pump, 10-12 acres of trees for the fireplace....it really wouldn't be all that bad. I would certainly be more busy and probably more fit. All my kids and grand kids would leave the big city and come out here to survive so I would have plenty of help. Not a bad picture. LOL!
1:00 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Thanks. I lose sight too and can get plain old frusturated like anyone else and sometimes let it out too, but over the years I've found the most important and most cherished things weren't bought in a store. I learned some hard, painful lessons and am thankful for them, although I wasn't thankful or in the right frame of mind at the time. Life is about learning. And passing on the knowledge. The little things can obscure the view, the big picture. You'd think the "big picture" would be easiest to see.
1:00 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Life was so much simpler back in the day. A women could only judge you based on the quality of horse you mounted................
1:41 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Steve Field
I have posted this, after reading the rhetoric, to inject maybe some observations of my own from real life experience.
I am a Resident Alien since 1979, apart from not being able to vote, I live as any American, paying taxes etc.
I am a professional in manufacturing that has allowed me to work in several different countries for financial gain.
One instance had me working in the middle east for several years where I was exposed to the Hebrew / Islamic population. As a useful visitor I was accepted.
My observations and personal experiences, .......
The Jewish people and the Israelite, wish to live free.
The Islamist hate everything western. It is preached in their places of worship, and has been witnessed by myself in conversations with these people as a visitor.
Our current president is an Islamist, our latest coin does not include the words "In God we trust"
A previous democrat could have eliminated the threat that concluded in the Tower attack, Bush warned the democratic majority congress in 2007 about the excessive spending and its repercussions. Our current president did not attend memorial day at Arlington Cemetery. Do you see a trend here ?
I feel he holds the American constitution in contempt.
3:00 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
What a stink bomb of a post.
Here in America we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The lives lost fighting for these freedoms are overwhelming and underappreciated to this day. We have freedoms sought after but rarely attained elsewhere in the world. Many countries are still engaged in ruinous wars just to speak their minds.
I don't care, nor should you, if Obama is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Catholic, Mormon, Buddhist, Wiccan, Bah'a'i, an atheist or anything else. Religion and politics do not and should not mix.
"In God we trust" should not be written on the monetary currency of the United States of America because this truly is the melting pot of the world. Peoples of the world, all peoples of the world, are represented in the population of our great nation. America will still be America if "In God we trust" isn't plastered all over our currency.
America has survived nearly 4 years with President Obama in office and I haven't once looked around and thought, Gee, America is so Islamist these days."
I still turn out of my driveway and pass four Christian churches in the first 1 mile of my journey. The only thing I see is more fear and people stoking the vile flames of fear. It's such a powerful emotion. So easy to lead with and abuse.
I could write a novel posting my observations and personal experiences, but to what avail? We all walk our own path, and even those walking next aren't seeing the same view.
6:27 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Field, speak your mind and don't worry about comments from others. They have no problem sharing theirs but don't appreciate any that differ from their point of view. That sentiment certainly exists from both "sides" but my experience shows the comments become quite personal and directed at the individual when folks from e left side disagree with you.
Rex, ones religion or lack there of tends to guide their perspective on right and wrong. It certainly shouldn't be the only indicator in choosing a leader, actions do matter more, but I don't think it should be ignored. I take Obama at his word in that he is a Christian from reverend Wrights church. His actions as president matter way more to me then does his religion.
Murphy, how very tolerant of you.
1:45 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Hey Field, go back to where you came from. Your vitriol is not helpful.
8:56 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I don't see why it has to be anyone's fault. The bank bailout and auto bailout straddled two administrations. Bush and Obama did what they felt they had to do given the info they were receiving.
Phyllis Stager
9:21 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Yeah but.....the Bush administration is notoriously responsible for Obama's problems, per the Mantra we have heard for the past 4 years. Both parties have been nothing but disasters as to where we are today. tom m wanted me to know that Bush started the 'bail out'. I thought the amounts, the timeline and noting of the dominant political party at the time gives a bit more clarification. Is that okay?
9:38 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I see it the following way Phyllis. For about 15 years American society behaved badly on all levels. The government overspent, greed brought our banks to the verge of collapse, regulators looked the other way when the banks (their future employers) behaved badly., the accounting firms and rating agencies were more interested in protecting their client bases than report honestly, mortgage lenders doled out ridiculous loans because the resultant risky mortgages could quickly be sold to Wall Street, mortgage brokers allowed profits to prevail over common sense, the people were living beyond their means by carrying too much mortgage and credit card debt. My point Phyllis is that for 15 years our society acted foolish and I derive two unescapable truths from this; First, to blame a single individual or party for the fallout is an attempt on the American people's behalf to avoid responsibility and second, no man or woman is capable of resolving this problem in short order, we're going to have to pay our dues for many years to come, no instant gratification will emerge to wipe away years of foolishness.
Phyllis Stager
9:47 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I agree with every thing you say. But the political trend is to blame and take no responsibility in order to get votes. I am tired of that. If you familiarize your self with the Community Recovery Acts...quite a few of these since the 70's, there was government push for giving mortgages to less qualified buyers. There was gov't pressure to do so. The lenders carried it to the extreme. If lenders had followed traditional and acceptable standards for credit worthiness we would not have had such a mess. It says to me, gov't interference in private enterprise never turns out well. I see it over and over and over again.
10:04 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I don't totally agree with that Phyllis. The big banks came up with a scheme to print money. They bundled risky mortgages and securitized them into investments. They filled these investments with subprime garbage that the ratings agencies slapped AAA ratings onto. Then the banks bought credit default swaps betting that the very investments that they created and sold all over the world would fail. The mortgage lenders are normally the gatekeepers. They don't want loans to fail because they lose money but in the brave new world mortgage securitization, they new they would sell the mortgages to Wall Street within a month and the risk would be off their books. Therefore, the gate came down. Finally, in Sheila Bairs book "Bulls by the Horns", she describes how 73% of these bad mortgages were refinanced mortgages. Within the backdrop of low interest rates, mortgage brokers were marketing people with 30 year fixed into sophisticated mortgages with high resets. That's what the brokers new customer, Wall Street desired. The homeowner extracted equity out of their houses and Wall Street had a steady supply of mortgages that were likely to fail in which they could place their bets against. Wall Street's obsession did not lie in helping the unfortunate access housing. There intent was to lure safe money out of home equity and into the marketplace for their own greedy manipulative purposes.
Phyllis Stager
10:18 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Here is the latest on the GM situation. It may yet fail:
Joe Giles
10:12 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Obama's Plan for Ohio
Making suburban taxpayers prop up failing Democratic cities.
President Obama aims to help Ohio's Democrats bail out your state's struggling cities by forcibly transferring suburban tax money to urban treasuries. It's a bold plan to redistribute the wealth of Ohio's suburbs. It also calls for halting the sort of highway and commercial development that brings jobs and taxes to the suburbs. The shorthand for this is "regionalism." Should Obama be reelected, a redistributive city-based regionalist agenda will likely be imposed on Ohio's suburbs. The best way to envision the future of suburban Ohio in a second Obama term is to see how close this regionalist agenda came to enactment in Obama's first four years.
Joseph Robert
10:23 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Republican Leaders Agree that Mitt Romney Cannot Be Trusted
"We are going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20 percent, including the top 1 percent. " (This is contrary to what Romney said in his first debate.)
– Mitt Romney, Republican politician and presidential candidate
"This is someone (Romney) who doesn't have a core. He has been on both sides of almost every single issue in the past 10 years. "
–Rick Santorum, Republican leader and former Republican Senator
"He's certainly beings dishonest about his own record? When he says that he had the endorsement of the NRA, he did not. When he says he didn't raise taxes, and in fact, there were $500 million in fees raised during this time. When he talks about my record or John McCain's. "He's making up stuff, it's just incredible. In Arkansas, we call it DISHONESTY."
- Mike Huckabee, Fox News commentator and former Governor
(P.S - Sound familiar with Romney's dishonest tactics in his first debate?)
"This is someone (Romney) who will say anything to get elected."- Rick Santorum
–Rick Santorum, Republican leader and former Republican Senator
Republican leaders agree – Romney Can't Be Trusted! Most voters agree!
Phyllis Stager
10:54 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
I don't know this columnist and have never read anything of his before, but this column is quite detailed and it seems researched. Since it is discussing Ohio and its 'tax redistribution' future, it is should be mandatory reading for all Buckeyes.
I honestly don't know whether it is a good idea or not. Its up to you Ohioans to decide.
11:34 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Phyllis, I've never been a fan of this regionalistic approach. The wealthier suburbs of Cleveland do not support this approach for obvious reasons. From my observations, I don't believe this movement has the legs that the article you sourced suggests.
Phyllis Stager
11:41 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Thanks. Never really heard of this sort of thing before. Although in Texas they have tried and succeeded in taking school taxes from the wealthier school districts to equalize and distribute to the less affluent areas. In a way, I can see that is reasonable in regard to education. If it is used to the kids advantage.
11:47 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Well, people have left the city of Cleveland and it's inner suburbs for the outer suburbs in droves for various reasons. That has left those areas in bad shape fiscally. I understand the concern but I'm pretty confident that the people won't except regionalism as a solution. Though, the ring of urban decay seems to be expanding farther outward. I don't know what the solution to this problem might be. It is unsettling though.
11:53 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Sure, like take the largest redistribution of wealth in this country's history. The financial fraud on Wall Street in 2008 drained pensions, 401k's and homes of their equity while the fat cats walked away with millions never to see the inside of a court room let alone a jail cell. The gap between the top 10% and the bottom 90% is wider, adjusted for inflation, then at any time in American history. I guess that's redistribution that you can believe in.
Phyllis Stager
12:06 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
How about Enron....why wasn't that bailed out in Bush's reign? Regardless, I resent the 'too big to fail' bail outs. Jon Corzine former gov of NJ and CEO of MF Global, Inc., lost hundred's of millions of investor's funds in 2011. He was allegedly offered 12 million severance upon his resignation but turned it down. He was already wealthy enough, I guess. Why wasn't he and his MF cronies indicted?
12:22 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
From what I've read Phyllis, the government has been trying to figure out where all the bodies are buried in the Corzine mess. Their still trying to find the Madoff money. Politically though, Corzine has no political allies and it's just a matter of time until he gets his. As for the bank bailouts, may I suggest that is easy to sit here in 2012 and criticize the bailout. If you recall, when the original vote was taken in Congress to authorize TARP it failed. The stock market lost 692 points that afternoon and the whole financial system was on the verge of seizing up. I can't fault Bush here at all. When the Federal Reserve chairman, the Secretary of the Treasury and numerous others are telling you that by not bailing the banks out the country and world could slip into the grips of a depression, If you were Bush, what would you have decided?
Phyllis Stager
12:37 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I know, I know...but when you fail, you fail. If I ever flunked a subj in school, there was no bail out. Lesson learned. If it is incompetence...tough, if its criminal off, to prison. There should be consequences for their actions. Where are the lessons or consequences for these guys? AIG had a ball after their bail out. It is so ridiculous. It is all politics. And in the GM bail out, union pensions saved, Delphi (20,000 employees), ignored. There is such inequity in the system. Vote for me and I'll save you.
2:00 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Complete lack of excitement for Romney is what will solidly Democratic victories at the state level.
Look's like Romney's debate bump was smaller than most people thought and not a game changer:
James Thomas
3:02 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Mr. Watts,
apparently you "don't know anyone who voted for Nixon". Excitement is high in my corner of the woods to see the next President of the United states on Tuesday.
3:12 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
OK, time to get your head out of the glue bag. That post is complete gibberish and the election isn't this Tuesday, it is still 4 Tuesdays away.
3:39 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
YOUR post shows complete lack of knowledge of what is happening in THIS area on Tuesday. So, keep your uninformed and misleading comments to your own states Patch.
James Thomas
3:52 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Like all the democratic statewide victories here in Ohio in 2010? Oh....wait.
James Thomas
4:29 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
It makes no sense to you because you don't live here in NE Ohio and you don't know your history either. Research "Paula Kael" and you'll understand the quote. Mitt Romney is in the area this Tuesday (Oct. 9) and I have tickets. It gives me the warm fuzzies that you didn't get my reference, it means that you'll probably be on the wrong end of repeated history.
3:20 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Watts-Another California Patch Invader
Go back to your own local Patch, at least your own state. I wouldn't mind if you had an interest in this area. But I have a problem with all of you spreading your garbage on other Patch networks just to promote you agendas, for free and going unchecked.
3:27 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Christopher London-Another out of the area poster
I guess the new way to get free advertising and to promote your candidate is by using the Patch throughout the country.
When will the Patch editors around the country start catching on to the strategy of their form of media being used? Or are you condoning this because of who is benefiting by these tactics?
3:39 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Lyn, what tips you off that a post is from out of the are? I can't seem to get a reading on that.
3:49 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Their posts usually contain statements that are offbase and either outright lies or exaggerations. Anew name and comments are slightly more extreme than others. Also meant to offend or anger one against an issue or candidate. And then they also contain links (which if I check out, I WILL NOT GO TO DIRECTLY!!). So, I then just "click" on their name and you can see where they are from and most of the time it shows the same comment being sent to possibly 20 different Patch across the country.
Really bothers me that they are getting away with this because I don't think this is permitted. I have seen many times that a posters comments have gone from say 20 different Patch to maybe 12, which means 8 editors did the ethical and proper thing - deleted them.
4:20 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Not sure what your issue is with people from around the nation being engaged in a dialog about an article that has a national (and not specifically local) interest. I don't firebomp Patch's (as you seem to want to describe it) in some sort of spamming technique. I may use a same or similarly stated comment in many Patch's to try to engage people in those areas and to represent information that I find significantly over looked in certain regions. My goal is to enlighten, through genuine engagement with people around the country, where I sometimes find dark abysses of ignorance dominating a local conversation.
4:28 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Problem is, you don't want to "engage", but rather you bring your own brand of "ignorance" attached to your uninformed comments. Perfect example was your comment about this Tuesday - you are in the dark about what the poster was saying so you have nothing to add here. So, just quit trying to spread misinformation and biased links.
7:35 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Sorry that when reality doesn't go your way, that you feel like bashing it as a brand of ignorance or being uninformed. I provided a link to a very unbiased and rather dry (but accurate) meta level analysis of the state of the current polls. This is hosted on the website of one of the longest standing and well respected news publications in the world. It isn't as if I am providing information or links to some fringe site that has no obligation to the truth. Just scrolling up through this thread I can see a person named Phyllis Stager who posts regularly from such nonsense fringe sites as freebeacon.com or dailycaller.com or even this crazy looking conspiracy theory site; dprogram.net.
So if I am understanding your position here, I am suppose to be the quack because I am currently out of state and post thoughtful statistical analysis of the current race, as hosted at the New York Times, but Phyllis is totally sane with her positions that she backs up with crazy conspiracy theory sites displaying space aliens and burning phoenix's as their header.
I know that people who aren't happy with the current realities of this race are going to probably still jump on board with you, no matter how weak your opinion is. But most people, even those who may ideologically agree with you on most things, are going to see what a vapid argument you have just tried to make.
6:23 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Lyn, short of telling Mrs. B that she's out of luck, what do you suggest?
8:40 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Not sure.
Just doesn't seem right or fair - and I know life isn't always fair.
But, I think there should be a better, more equitable system where Mrs. A and Mrs. B are paying closer to the the same amount when they are receiving the same benefit/service. Why should another have to pay $600,000 more, as in my example and not a far fetch reflection of what actually happens?
8:14 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
You know Lyn, after thinking about it, I must point out a major contradiction here. Ohio's state elections are being heavily influenced by a couple of billionaires from Texas by way of heavy television spots. The Republicans defend this in the grounds of freedom of speech. This Watts fella posts his thoughts to a finite group of people and yet you consider this an undue influence?
Dan Marol
8:44 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I agree, Murphy. I also keep waiting for Lyn to attack Phyllis because she is from out of state, but for reasons that I can only assume, she is staying silent.
8:48 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Its not just Watts. Its Christopher London and Joseph Roberts to name a few. And they are using a local discussion board in a way that in was not meant to be used - as clearly agreed since other editors have deleted their comments for violating terms.
I would rather try and keep the discussion to those with a local interest on this forum, wouldn't you? I think that is what most of us feel this is for.
And you are comparing to paid ads. They are not paying for these ads - they are plastering all these Patchs around the country free of charge with whatever they want to say, without restrictions. With paid ads, you have to abide by certain rules. They are circumventing those and misleading readers.
8:59 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
2 things...
1) Patch is doing all that they can to reach the largest audiences by working on elevating in search engine results that are global. Go google "Obama's going to take your stuff" and you will see that it is a top result and is so all over the US. This is because Patch actually wants this level of exposure and contribution. In fact, I have spoken to certain editors who are trying to elevate the issue at Patch to figure out how to address this at the local level for individuals like yourself who, instead of welcoming an open discussion, feel that it is some kind of violation.
2) "since other editors have deleted their comments for violating terms" - If you are implying this about me, you are lying; plain and simple. I have never had a single post deleted for any sort of violation of any policy that seems to exist exclusively in your own mind.
9:05 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
@ Dan
Obviously, lyn is not going to call out Phyllis for being from out of state, because lyn ideologically agrees with Phyllis. Same as I pointed out above, where I posted using a link to one of the longest standing pillars of journalism in this country and Phyllis uses links to fringe sites like these: freebeacon.com, dailycaller.com or even this crazy looking conspiracy theory site; dprogram.net.
There is a well known word for what lyn is. She is a hypocrite. Her sole agenda is to manipulate people on here to demonize anybody, for any reason, who is ideologically opposed to her world view.
8:49 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Well Dan, Phyllis is a good example. I've enjoyed talking to Phyllis. In my opinion Phyllis has been a good contributor to this patch. She is able to offer a Texas perspective that I've found very interesting. The benefit of the Internet is to expand our horizons. I welcome Phyllis.
Dan Marol
8:55 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I agree, I personally have no problem with Phyllis posting here. Even though I disagree with her 99% of the time, I enjoy the debate.
Phyllis Stager
10:39 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Well y'all...My internet connection has bee down more than 24 hours. I think it was back as of a few minutes ago.
And let me just say, I haven't caught up with all the postings, but you guys are great to have exchanges with. As to my 'foreign' credentials, I lived on Little Mountain Road in Mentor, attended Mentor Elem, and MHS and attend alum reunions. I went to school in Cleveland and Columbus. My 3 sons were born in Ohio. I love Ohio as the people I grew up with had wonderful values, there was a sense of community and caring. My oldest friends live in Ohio. But...I love Texas, too. And we in Texas are FAR better off budget and economy-wise than is Ohio. I want Ohio to make a real comeback. Cheers
8:52 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I would "attack" her if she wasn't from this area and didn't have an interest in this area. Also, I would do the same if I saw she was plastering 20 Patchs with the same comments.
If you think I'm being hypocritical, so be it.
But, then you haven't read anything I have written about this issue.
8:57 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I've read some of your posts Lyn and have been impressed with the depth of your thoughts. I don't mean to sound dismissive on this particular issue. I just haven't noticed the influx from other patches. You've piqued my interest on this issue and I'll watch more closely in the future.
9:09 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Now in all fairness Watts, Lyn has been a substantive thinker on this patch. I like your overall argument but let's play fair dog.
9:49 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
OK, then lets see how you feel when you are on the wrong end of a false description of the Patch policies and a bold face lie about your posts being deleted for having violated these policies that do not actually exist.
You can sing Kubaya with lyn, but until she actually provides a link to such policies for posting on Patch sites outside of your signed in region or proof that I have ever had a post removed for violating any such post, to me she is somebody who is not above lying to manipulate people on here.
And if local people were not inclined to question that post of hers, then maybe her posts are only as substantial, in as far as nobody has questioned them or delved deeper to see how truthful they were.
So lyn, the floor is yours. Are you going to prove your accusations against me or are you going to apologize to me and your fans for your lies about the Patch policies and that I have had posts removed for having violated these fictitious policies?
9:57 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
And on a side note, not everybody lives or has personal interests in just one location. For instance, I currently reside mainly by the beach in SoCal, but have residences and/or operate businesses based in 7 states. So once you start paying taxes into so many locations, your interests are certain to follow.
And I would agree that if somebody was posting opinions on topics for which they have no possible knowledge or interest (for example, to be commenting on local zoning decisions), that they are simply trying to muck things up for the fun of it. But if the topic is of a national interest, where would be the concern of lyn's that somebody from another part of the state was contributing to the dialog? Except if that person's opinion did not match her own.
10:00 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
This: "But if the topic is of a national interest, where would be the concern of lyn's that somebody from another part of the state was contributing to the dialog?"
Should have been: "But if the topic is of a national interest, where would be the concern of lyn's that somebody from another part of the nation was contributing to the dialog?"
9:58 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Watts, I've conceded already that you have a valid argument. You dilute that argument when you use words like "fans". Calling Lyn hypocritical is to impugn her integrity. My observations, based on her posts, is that she is deserving of better consideration. The hard headed Irishman in me does not provide for fanaticism.
10:48 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
"Fans" may not have been the best choice, so let's say "regulars(?)" if that is more fitting.
10:02 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I agree with you in principal Watts. Sadly, I've never been to California
10:51 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Beautiful place to visit and may I be the first to welcome you to post as freely as you wish if you have some valid contributions on national issues that may originate on CA Patch sites.
10:52 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Regulars is cool. Well I'm going to hit the sack. A good nights sleep might do you well to Watts because when Phyllis catches up with the nights posts in the morning........She'll team up with Lyn and leave you feeling like you live in Watts. LOL
8:18 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Thanks for attempts at defending me.
I've been "ignoring" Watts and just deleting the messages when I saw his name, so I had to scan back to see what the discussion was. I figured the best way to deal with that pesky gnat buzzing around was to swat at it after I got tired of first seeing his remarks and then just ignore him.
Anyway, even though we do not always agree, there are several areas we do. And although this time I prefer anyone but the Dem candidate (I wanted Hilary last time), that doesn't mean I disagree with all Obama has done or agree with Romney 100% - but the scales are tilted in his favor (I wanted Huntsman this time).
And, as far as outside of the area posters, once again, I would welcome them, as Phyllis, if they already had an interest in this area. But to use the nationwide Patchs as a platform and get free ads to further a candidate is wrong, IMO - and in the past the editors of some Patch editions have deleted their comments. And one can assume that this is being done because it does violate some terms that violates using the Patch in an incorrect manner. If they deem it inaccuracies, advertising or what -I don't know. But,I did not single out that Watts guy.. For all I know, he may or may not have had comments deleted. However some repeated posters have!
1:17 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
@ lyn
"one can assume that this is being done because it does violate some terms that violates using the Patch in an incorrect manner."
Yes, one could assume this (read: pull this fiction out of thin air) if it agreed with something that you are personally predisposed to believing in the first place. So, given that logic, you see nothing wrong with creating any type fo fictional story to support anything that you want if you feel legitimized in assuming it. Why does this sound so familiar? Oh yeah...
(start at the 50 second mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSE_saVX_2A
lyn's no brainiac on the nerd patrol, no member of the factinista! No, lyn goes from the gut. Patch is banning out of state contributors and deleting their posts, because her gut told her so.
lyn, you had a great chance here. You could have proven yourself; either as being correct or in showing the level of character to apologize to me and your "regulars" on here for intentionally deceiving them with this fiction that you brought to the discussion to further your personal agenda. But now you have left Murphy Salon and anybody else reading this thread with the indelible knowledge that your posts have questionable credibility, because nobody is going to know where facts end and where the fairy tales begin. And even if caught and called out, that you will only then begrudgingly, insultingly and without apology; admit to making stuff up. Murphy Salon calls it substance, but I call it...
1:29 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
I really do not care to debate you on ANY issue.
But, you keep baiting me. So....
You question what is written in the policy. I do not care to take the time to research this for you. The fact remains that posts have been deleted. I do not know if your comments have or have not because I did not pay much attention to you when you first made comments here, and didn't "track" you.
If posts were deleted, there was a reason. So, I gave some guesses as to why. It doesn't take much to figure it out, if you remain openminded. But obviously you only want to push on with your agenda. Go ahead. And, I will go back to ignoring and not reading what you write - that's how much I value your opinion.
1:54 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
There are a lot of reasons that posts can be deleted on Patch. The end of my previous post that left the reader to fill in the blank is a nod to the fact that if I used the exact words that came to mind, my post could have (and should have) been deleted.
It is interesting that you are not only this lacking in the knowledge of the policies of Patch, but are also flagrantly indifferent to taking the time to learn them. But those are your choices. Somebody's Patch of origin frequently has nothing at all to do with where they live. My girlfriend, for example, moved to CA 7 years ago from Hopkins, MN. She started on Patch, from CA, by logging into the Hopkins Patch. So she will forever be showing as somebody in MN, no matter where she posts in the country. I own residences in multiple states, as well as operate my business with locations in multiple states, but my account shows up as only the one place that I first signed on. In fact, where I signed up isn't even correct for where I live, because when I signed up, there wasn't a Patch for where I live...but there is now.
1:54 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Unless you are Ted Stevens behind this "lyn" identity, you should be able to grasp all of this and not be thinking that the internet is a series of tubes and that I happened to come through one of those tubes. And hopefully this all opens your eyes to how it works. And keep in mind that this thing between you and I all started because you objectified me based on a false understanding, so I recommend that you do take the time to read the Patch policies before you throw around any further false accusations at people on here.
2:05 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Do people in Alameda, CA have a reading comprehension problem??
Repeated posts across the country were deleted. FACT.
YOU want to know why - I'm not going to do your research. But logic should prevail on that answer as to why some editors took this action.
Time for me to be a better person again and do as I said - ignore you and engage in more civil debates.
3:56 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Yes, multiple Patch posts have been deleted when they have been solicitations for goods or similarly having nothing at all to do with the article and/or discussion. None of which my comments would have qualified as, nor have they at any time.
At this point, I have given up that you will actually be forthcoming about the realities of your deceptiveness to all readers nor that you will show the strength of character to apologize. You have shown more about your lack of integrity to the frequent readers here, than you have done to actually demonize me. I laid myself out for you to have an inward directed, self-deprecating Sister Souljah moment to show that using unknowable, unconfirmed and inevitably false information to attack anybody in a forum, is not acceptable.
I didn't post here for this type of conversation. You went down this path as if you were in a cliche Hollywood movie where it is the "townies" versus the out of state college kids. Now if you see my posts again and you want to engage with me on the subject of the post and not try to do a character assassination job on me based on some fiction, then I welcome that. But don't think that you are going to bring false accusations against somebody (at least not me), without it coming to this inevitable conclusion.
Christopher London
12:19 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Mitt Romney's life is a highlight reel of hypocrisy: see the evidence below:
1) The Mormon Madoff: http://tinyurl.com/9dusohs and
2) Romney the Racketeer: http://tinyurl.com/9h2xstg
3) Republicans on Romney: http://tinyurl.com/9nydqtg
Regardless of which candidate we as Americans choose to support or which party we may traditionally support, we must recognize, accept and understand that with Willard Milton "Mitt" Romney we have a character of an entirely different beast than we are used to evaluating for President; a pathological liar with sociopath personality disorder. Romney's shape-shifting on taxes for example, a central economic issue for families, individuals & small business owners & ultimately the solvency of our republic does not reflect an evolution of understanding and policy sincerity being articulated thoughtfully by the Romney campaign but rather a deceptive level of opportunism which quite clearly goes to the heart of his trustworthiness. In that vein, when you consider Romney's position on taxes, consider that he has chosen to maintain a great percentage of his wealth in secret off-shore accounts outside the purview of the United States government and he has also chosen to provide not even the most minimal level of disclosure that candidates for the Presidency traditionally provide to the American people.
8:30 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Lyn, it's interesting that you mentioned Jon Huntsman. He was my favorite Rep. candidate as well. It frustrated me that he could not get traction. The Republican Party does not accept a moderate influence anymore. That was his undoing but he stayed real to his beliefs and I respect that. Romney, on the other hand, has a past moderate record but he does this ultra conservative dance which puts his leadership ability at question.
8:52 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
I think most candidates campaign a certain way, and then once elected they govern as they really are and their past had revealed them to be. As in Obama - before elected, known to be VERY left, campaigned and said he would govern to the middle, and once elected, VERY left. So, I would expect Romney is speaking to the vocal part of the REP party, the most right, in some case, and that is what the news media gives us. However, when you have a background that shows to be more to the middle, I would tend to go with what has been shown in history. I just don't understand the Ryan pick. I know it probably did satisfy a lot of his base, but they would vote REP anyhow. I think he should have gone with someone like Huntsman, Portman or Condoleezza Rice. Why not try and capture those middle votes and those are all 3 good people?
9:05 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
MZ, I think you miss my point. Good moderate Republicans are finding it hard to coexist with the far right. Many moderate Republicans have announced plans not to run for re-election. Those moderates, like Lugar, who haven't left voluntarily are being kicked out by the Tea Party. I'm an Independent, therefore, this purging of moderates has estranged me from the Republican Party. If moderates were being purged from the Democratic Party, I would be equally concerned. Truth can usually be found in the middle. For w/o a middle we're left with extremes and that never ends nicely.
1:38 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
I think its too bad that a local forum has now been hijacked by these outside posters.
Thanks for diminishing and trashing a site where many of us came to discuss local and national events with our neighbors and those who care about our area.
These outsiders have found a place to spread their agenda and ruined why we were first drawn to the Patch.
Joseph Robert
10:22 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Lyn, please provide proof that you are indeed a Cuyahoga Falls area resident. Start by providing Social Security number, address, phone, and date of birth. (LOL).
Why are you so quick to condemn other readers who have different opinions than yourself? You act a lot like your "leader" Mitt Romney with his condemning, "47 percent" comments.
2:20 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Lyn, I'm from the Solon patch not the Salon patch. For the record, I've never set foot in a salon despite what you might have heard.....LOL
Sandra Fairchild
3:05 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
To think I used to be proud of living in North Canton where neighbors were friends and co workers got along no matter your race, religion or political views. A town where you felt safe, a "hometown"where you could raise your family and live the "American Dream" ! A place where people came together to help others in need. I believe everyone should be allowed "to agree to disagree" and have "freedom of speech"! For all of you who wanted "Hope and Change" and voted for Obama, there is a saying "Fool me once, shame on you"..."Fool me twice, shame on me"..."None are so blind as those who refuse to see" what is happening to America, when two Communists, "Chavez" and "Raual Castro" have endorsed "Obama" . You still have a chance to save the "America" we have grown to love and save it for our children, grandchildren. If you want a "Socialistic Country" why don't you leave America and move to one. "A Wise Man changes his mind...A Fool Never Will" I pray for our candidates and for our country! God Bless America, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
3:47 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Miss Fairchild, your foolish vitriol renders your opinions irrelevant.
Jeanne Fencl
9:12 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Well said Mrs. Fairchild. I believe it is not only in North Canton, but a continuing problem everywhere. Actually, I have my Obama sign from last time, and will be putting it out in the yard. Except it will have an attachment that says NOT THIS TIME.
Sandra Fairchild
5:59 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
A wise man once said "you are a fool to try and reason with a fool" I am no fool!!!
Sandra Fairchild
6:05 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
My above comment was aimed at Murphy-Solon Patch!
6:36 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Another wise man said " I've seen the enemy and it is I" Educate yourself Fairchild
8:09 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Actually John, I bear some responsibility. I like to debate issues but when I see a post that is just meant to slander, I should just ignore it. I gave her what she was seeking....my bad.
Sandra Fairchild
8:49 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Murphy ,This is Mr. Fairchild this time ... my wife is not "Fairchild", she is "Mrs. Fairchild "... poor manners and a lack of respect for others is unacceptable to those of us who have had a proper upbringing. The correct quote is "I've seen the enemy and it is us"! We are conservative Christians, we would have backed any Republican who won the Primary, in order to get Obama and his Marxist ideology out of the people's "White House". We are voting for Mitt Romney! Maybe you should watch "Fox News Channel" and see "fair", "balanced" and "honest" debates from all sides!
tom m
9:01 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Mr fairchild ...you are acting like a child ..put the adult (wife) back on since she makes a lot of good points (which the angry libs hate) but now because of your silly comments she will now have to start over
Jeanne Fencl
9:14 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Sandra, you are one lucky woman to have you husband, stand up for you. That is what gentlemen do.
John McMillan
11:05 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
OMG you're saying Fox "News" is fair, balanced and honest? LOL...that is really funny. But of course I suppose you think all other media are guilty of liberal bias? That is the hogwash you have been led to believe.
John McMillan
11:11 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Hmmm that says it all, doesn't it..."we would have backed ANY Republican who won the primary..." Because you're not voting FOR anything, just AGAINST everything. LOL@ "Marxist ideology"...that's just crazy talk. Funny how someone who feels they have had a "proper upbringing" just appears to be "acting like a child" to others...the word "pompous" comes to mind.
Jack Kelly
6:23 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Citing Fox News Channel as fair, balanced and honest?
OMG. Thanks for the laugh. You probably believe 19 Action News' positioner that they're "honest, fair and everywhere."
Oh again, thanks for the early morning chuckle.
8:03 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Husband has to come on Patch to defend poor wifey.
Just like as if she was a twelve year old girl being picked on.
I may not always agree with Murphy, but I respect his views and feel he is entitled to them.
But didn't poor wifey also say "I believe everyone should be allowed "to agree to disagree" and have "freedom of speech"! HA-HA, guess you don't really think that!
Although I do think Fox may give a TAD more info from both sides than say MSNBC, your strong support is more than a bit blindly following them to a point of scary worshiping at their feet - and that leads to intolerance.
Also, I don't think your post reflects the Christian attitude you are thumping around. A compassionate conservative you are not.
This is one of the reasons why nothing is getting done the last 1 1/2 years in Washington - either your way or no way. First Obama wouldn't budge, now you and yours.
8:57 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Well Fairchild, I should not have responded to your wife. She wasn't interested in debating policy but rather just spew hate. I thought your mention of upbringing and Christianity coupled with referring to our duly elected leader as a Marxist was really rich. I want no further contact with you two.
tom m
9:07 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Murphy you are one of the angry libs who spew nothing but hate...... in your eyes it is either you are right or everyone else is wrong......after thursday night when biden shows the world why he is not allowed to speak in public without HIS tele-prompter ..... I am sure your hate filled comments will become worse
9:12 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Actually Tom M, I'm an Independent who voted for McCain in 2008. You can check my past posts and you won't find me referring to Romney as bleep this bleep that. I've debated folks on this patch w/respect to issues. It's counter productive to refer to our President as a Socialist or Marxist. You can't seriously debate words like that. Not to worry though, I won't be responding to the Fairchild's of the world in the future.
11:14 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
We need to do ourselves both a favor John and just ignore them.
Sandra Fairchild
3:09 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
My comments were not made for the "world", I thought I was replying to a blog regarding comments from someone in "my hometown" ! We have worked hard our entire lives and dedicated ourselves to helping others. We have lived by the quote of our late President John F. Kennedy "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". It is a shame that our country is being divided by our President who said he wanted to bring us together. I feel he has failed and lied to the American people. When our Diplomats were killed in Libya by terrorists on 9/11, he was apologizing to the Middle East for a you tube video instead of defending our fellow Americans and admonishing the dastardly deeds of the terrorists. We are not bigots, or racists. we are Patriots. We "hate" no one! I was unaware you were conducting a "debate". I was exercising my opinion and right to "freedom of speech", as a concerned American citizen. My husband has traveled thru out the world and witnessed the failed results of "Socialism". To systematically dismantle our Constitutional Republic and replace it with a failed ideaology to "Fundamentally Change America", per Obama, is unthinkable. You might want to see the movie "documentary" "2016" or read the books Obama has written in his own words to understand why I feel so strongly against his re-election!
Proud to be an American!
Dee McMane
3:45 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
You are several slices of bread short a sandwich. Is the staff at Laurelwood looking for you?
9:38 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Lyn, I don't know how you feel about it but this charge that Obama is a Socialist or Marxist seems wild eyed to me. It seems made up of the same kind of stuff that the Dems used to call Bush a war criminal and intellectually stupid. I think the monied special interest lobbying in Washington has hijacked this country. They run the show and a socialist system is not in their interests. Furthermore, the Executive branch, under our Constitution, cannot appropriate a dimes worth of spending. There exists no scenario by which a man w/o spending authority with a Congress that is bought and paid for by special interest can turn our system of government Socialist. In fact, the exact opposite has happened. Take the Wall Street example for instance. These cats placed risky bets with our money to maximize their profits and brought the whole economy down in the process. Not a single one of these fools have seen the inside of a court room let alone a jail cell. They effectively privatized profit and nationalized their losses. To this day the Fed still has the overnight lending rates to the banks pegged at zero percent. That's akin to giving the banks a printing press to print their own money. I could train a fifth grader to take interest free money from the government and buy Tbills and make endless amounts of money on the spread. I don't make enough money on my CD's to keep up with low inflation because my interest has been sold by the government to the darlings on Wall Street.
9:52 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
I do think Obama is very left leaning, approaching socialism philosophy, more than capitalism. But I don't think I would call him a Socialist, though.
His ideas, at least IMO, do seem to be wealth redistribution and more and more people are being taking care of by the government - and now, they are expecting it, more and more. What bothers me is, I am not wealthy, or anywhere near, but I don't expect anyone to take care of me and I resent that my taxdollars going to those who EXPECT to be taken care of. I have no problem with those in need,temporarily, or the ill or elderly. But I do believe in rewarding success and not demonizing those who have done well.
I also don't like that we own part of GM - the government owning private business????
Isn't that part of socialism?
So, although there are things I like about both parties, what I have said above tips me away from Obama and to the other guy. Now, if it had only been Hillary last time...
10:09 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
As you said,"I don't make enough money on my CD's".
I know! So, we can work and save but then our savings just are not working for us. And the stock market is just too risky - it might be high now, but it sure isn't a true reflection of the economy. So, I don't want to be that person holding too much or the wrong stock, because I really think its headed down, very soon. And, I know you probably will not agree, but I think it will come down worse if Obama is reelected. I would capture the best interest rates now before they fall...starting next week!!!
10:08 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
You see Lyn, that's the part of the Republican argument that I take offense to. Wall Street destroys the economy and walk away with untold millions. Those people that lost their jobs and were left wanting our receiving the lions share of the blame. Did you want Obama to say to them "look, I know Wall Street collapsed the economy but you people who paid the highest cost our just going to have to starve. In the meantime, we'll keep the overnight lending rate at zero so the perpetrators of this collapse can make millions more". Is that how you think it should have gone? And let's be clear about one thing. I've heard this same redistribution argument out of the Republicans my whole adult lifetime. Now, 30 years into my adulthood, what do you find? You find that the wealth gap between the top 10% and the bottom 90% is wider than at any time in our history. Either the Dems have done a poor job of this redistribution over the last 30 years or the Repubs were full of it. Also, the 2008 financial collapse was the largest wealth redistribution in our history. The average Americans equity in their homes, 401k's and pension plans tanked and was redirected to Wall Street. I challenge you to show me a time in our history where more wealth changed hands. That wealth went from the bottom to the top and not the other way around. Even GM, was affected. The immediate reason for their failure was a frozen credit market brought to them by their friends on Wall Street.
10:21 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
I don't like what happened on Wall Street either. But I do think the bailout was needed there because our entire economy might have collapsed. Most Rep didn't like that Bush created TARP, but what would have happened to our country otherwise?
But, lets remember how and when that economic crisis began... back in the 1990's when , wouldn't it be nice for everyone to own a home. Yes, but practical? So, the lending was eased and the banks were forced to lend to those not credit worthy and then they dumped those packages of bad loans and mess, mess, mess... Everyone scrambled to make a buck. Plenty of blame to go around. But, how about those homeowners not taking responsibility? What about their neighbors who were "good citizens" and paid their mortgages, but got no breaks, yet those who did not, got free "rent" while not paying and living there, reductions in payments, or how about $2000(?) if your home was foreclosed. I know, lots of generalities, but again... all people taking, but ME! When do I get mine? I'm not rich or poor, pay my bills. But, I do not want the government taking care of me, and I do think we ALL should be paying some federal income tax...and the rich should be paying a little more.
Joseph Robert
10:12 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Republican Leaders Agree that Mitt Romney Cannot Be Trusted
"If Governor Romney would like to give back all the money that he has earned from bankrupting companies and laying off employees, over his years at BAIN, then I would be glad to then listen to him. "
-Newt Gingrich, Republican leader and former Speaker of the US House of Rep.
"This is someone (Romney) who doesn't have a core. He has been on both sides of almost every single issue in the past 10 years. "
–Rick Santorum, Republican leader and former Republican Senator
"He's (Romney) certainly being dishonest about his own record! When he says that he had the endorsement of the NRA, he did not. When he says he didn't raise taxes, and in fact, there were $500 million in fees raised during this time. When he talks about my record or John McCain's. He's making up stuff, it's just incredible. In Arkansas, we call it DISHONESTY."
- Mike Huckabee, Fox News commentator and former Governor of Arkansas
P.S - Sound familiar with Romney's dishonest tactics speaking in the first debate with Obama!
Republicans and Democrats alike agree; Romney cannot be trusted!
10:29 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Still waiting for Hillary and Bill's comments about Obama during the last primary.
Joseph Robert
10:12 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Learn about Mitt Romney's campaign promises, from Mitt Romney!
1.5 million views this week!
10:16 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
That's the conundrum Lyn, I feel the same way. With the European debt crisis winding it's way down an uncertain path, I don't want to touch the stock market. Even the bond market is overextended but CD's are paying zippo. There really isn't a decent option.
10:29 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Look Lyn, I've told you in the past that our society behaved badly in this housing mess straight up and down the chain of command. I've also accepted that government policy to expand home ownership was too aggressive. But if you think the Wall Street shenanigans had anything to do with some moral imperative to help the homeless, then I don't quite know what else I can say to you on the subject. Don't want to sound like a broken record, but, I think you would find Sheila Bair's book " Bull by the Horns" to be ver enlightening. P.S. proud of the way you're not responding to those other posts.
10:37 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Other posts?? I don't see them, do you???
I'd like to forget about yesterday and being drug into the gutter.
Anyway, I think I rambled on in my last post, brain bouncing all over.
I need breakfast.
10:39 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
LOL, you're an able combatant Lyn. I can sense the softer side of you. Eat a good breakfast. Catch up to you later.
10:46 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
I missed you Phyllis. I've always liked Mentor particularly Headlands State Park and Pickle Bills (Grand River). Ohio is actually doing better than the national norm right now Phyllis and the natural gas potential that is being developed can turn out to be a boon for us like oil is for Texas. I've always thought that Ohio has an exceptional metro park system. In your opinion, how does the Texas park system stack up?
Phyllis Stager
10:54 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Gosh, there are parks all over the place here in Texas. There is State Park a mile from me on Lake Bob Sandlin. I spent several days camping at Big Bend National Park, canoeing down the Rio Grande a few years ago. And...Caddo Lake about an hour from me...the ONLY natural lake in Texas! (all our lakes are reservoirs) Texans are really proud of their heritage and their land. The state plants wild flowers on the side of almost all the roads and the Blue Bonnets in bloom are a sight to see. But....if it wasn't for air conditioning, our population would be a lot less!
11:00 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Phyllis, I've never been to Texas but was planning to visit your state in November for a Browns - Cowboys football game. Unfortunately, my mother's health is in a precarious position and I had to tell my friends to plan the trip w/o me. That bums me out because I've always wanted to visit Dallas. I'm a history buff and for years I've wanted to visit Dealy Plaza and the Texas Book Depository and the phenomenal new stadium that Jerry Jones built.
Phyllis Stager
11:11 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
I am sorry to hear about your mother. Prayers that all turns out well for her.
Dallas is filled with Yankees, so you would not feel as though you are in a foreign land. You would have to go to Fort Worth to the Stockyards to get a sense of Texas. I take my Ohio friends there when they come to Texas. It is really pretty great, museums, country music, twice a day cattle drives, etc. Dallas is a pretty sophisticated city, also a lovely place but only traces of true identifiable 'Texas' character!
3:48 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
I can't believe I'm just finding these articles! These are amazing!
Oh and how'd that election work out for you there....?
Richard Parker
1:30 pm on Sunday, February 17, 2013
I work my ass off for $34,000 a year while the rich enjoy the riches they were either born into or happened to be in the right place at the right time. It has nothing to do with what you "worked for." Obama's plan sounds fair to me.
5:49 pm on Thursday, May 9, 2013
Maybe Al Ghore can get you a better job. Call him. He's been killin it during the Obamination years.
Wally Hayman
8:23 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
No, it's deer that are going to take your stuff.
And they're going to take it because that dang gomint constructed deer signs everywhere to let them know where they can cross to get to your house.
Dortor Wu
3:33 pm on Thursday, May 9, 2013
So if President Obama gives your stuff to the deer, it'll be all good, right?
6:22 pm on Thursday, May 9, 2013
Geez, you two are bored. You're just looking for an argument on a blog that's months old. I understand, I'm kind of going through withdraw myself. C'mon Danarino, write a one line blog like "is Obama a socialist?" and then it will be on.
Phyllis Stager
9:26 am on Friday, May 10, 2013
@ Murphy-Solon: Hey, where is that blog? Weren't you going to put one up as a 'debate' center? Hope all is well with you, its been months. Did you ever get to Texas? At least Obama made it to Texas yesterday! LOL! Maybe he can take home to the nation a rational economic policy! So much has happened nationally since we all had our 'exchanges'. To my way of thinking we are in a mess, particularly, culturally. Ohio is not the Ohio I knew and loved as I safely walked that mile to and from school. At any rate: Cheers!
9:35 am on Friday, May 10, 2013
Hi Phyllis, I'm doing fine. Haven't written that blog yet but the topics have been so boring on the Patch lately that I just might have to blog something. You shouldn't worry about the moral fabric of the country. Things always seem to go the way they're meant to go. I understand the tendency to fight it but, throughout history, society evolves as intended. If not, life for women in this country would be totally different than what it is today. A big thunderstorm is heading our way in a few hours and I want to cut the lawn before it arrives. See you later !!!