text:
Guns in Public Places: Where Do You Stand?
On Feb. 19 and Feb. 22, the state will stage public hearings to discuss a new concealed carry handgun law for Illinois.
Gun control hearings will convene before an Illinois House committee later this month, says Speaker Mike Madigan, and there will be much talk about a new concealed carry law.
"In light of events in recent months in Illinois and in other parts of the country, it's appropriate and necessary that we give a full vetting to proposed state legislation on this matter," reads a statement from Madigan. "These hearings will provide an opportunity for gun-safety advocates, gun-rights supporters and members of the law enforcement community to offer their views and argue their cases to legislators and the people of Illinois."
A federal appeals court in December opted to give state lawmakers 180 days to craft a concealed carry law instead of nullifying the state ban. The state has until June 9, according to the court ruling.
The governor would like to keep guns out of schools, parks and shopping malls.
A bill that is gaining bipartisan support would restrict Illinois residents from carrying guns in bars, airports, courthouses, casinos, stadiums, libraries, child care businesses, schools, colleges, jails and mental health facilities. Some lawmakers believe guns should be allowed in shopping malls and movie theaters.
This post is published throughout the Chicago-area Patch network.
If Illinoisans are allowed to carry concealed handguns, what places would you want to be off limits?
Comments on this post are now closed.
5:56 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
We have all seen the failures in gun-free zones. Law -abiding citizens, I repeat, law-abiding citizens, after passing all background checks, should be able to carry anywhere. Guns are here to stay and instead of enacting assinine laws to control or ban them, we need to focus on punishing criminals and better background checks. No one but a bad guy has anything to fear from a good guy with a gun.
Bob Loblaw
7:56 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Lol, "no one but a bad guy?" Let's not forget the two officers with fifteen years on the force each that shot nine innocent people outside of the Empire State Building. Or, you know, the countless deaths at the hands of "good guys" and "responsible gun owners." How about the guy that fatally shot his son in the chest because he broke the primary rules of gun safety? But keep telling yourself guns are only dangerous in the hands of "bad guys." And what a hilariously binary classification to begin with.
8:06 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
So what is your answer to guns in this country Bob? Do we call a timeout and everyone, including the criminals, turn in our guns? Would that make you happy? There will always be unfortunate cases where guns are involved. Please be informed that the majority of cops are terrible shots. I have shot with them and it makes me wonder. Cops are human and just as prone to panic as anyone else, despite their training. Anyone who chooses to carry a weapon, owes it to their fellow citizens to be trained how to use it.
Harry Callahan
8:21 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@Bob Loblaw, you have been listening to the messiah to much and his brown shirts,just go to the library and read up on Germany or Europe 1930's ,there are quite a few similarities that are happening here in the U.S. that happen back in that time,some are scary,and I'm sure the lefty liberal media won;t do a segment on it like 60 Minutes or 20-20, so you can laugh all you want,but I go back to the old saying "Becareful What You Wish For You Might Get It".
8:59 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I agree. You can make all the laws you want it isn't going to stop a bad guy from getting a gun and committing a crime. The only thing that gun laws limit is the good guy from protecting themselves.
Walter Bruun
9:22 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Let me ask a question of the Concealed Carry supporters - why don't we ensure that the guns don't get in the hands of the "bad guys" to begin with? Why are you against background checks, licensing, insuring & registration? @ Harry Callahan - Germany in '28s & again in '38 (under Hitler) greatly relaxed gun ownership laws for German citizens - they did prohibit Jews from owning weapons because jews, by legislation, had become non-citizens by that time. When Regan got shot (and almost killed) he was surrounded by extremely well trained agents as well as Capitol PD (the "good guys") who were heavily armed - and a single nut with a .22 cal. revolver managed to get off 6 shots, wounding 4 (including the President) - it was an unarmed civilian who finally subdued the gunman because he had run out of bullets - if he had had a Glock w/a 30 round magazine the Presdent would likely have been killed, along with a whole lot of others. @ Kris - right now all a "bad guy" has to do to obtain a weapon is to go to any of the hundreds of gun shows in one of the 33 states that don't require a background check, walk in w/cash & get a gun from a private (non FFL) dealer - how about we start with those laws?
9:50 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Walter....why don't you pass a law that guaranties everyone that someone will not buy an automobile and the drink and drive? Myself and others would feel so much safer if you could handle that for us!
10:00 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Walter, If your question made any sense, I might be able to give you a sensible answer. MANY more people die from auto accidents and heck, even baseball bats every year than guns. How many kids die from abortions that you liberals look the other way at every year? Gun violence is nothing compared to the mayhem cause by putting liberals in a place of power!
Brian H
10:41 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@Walter Bruun: I feel you're jumping to conclusions in your assumption that all concealed carry supporters are "against background checks, licensing, insuring & registration." I, for one, am a concealed carry supporter, but also feel that there should be exhaustive background checks, licensing, insuring, & registration. I would actually go on to suggest that there should be comprehensive psychological evaluations. Yes, it would cost more to own a gun, but I don't think the second amendment ever said that we have the right to bear arms and that it must be cheap to do so.
Why can't people develop their own thoughts on subjects such as this? Everyone seems to regurgitate whatever rhetoric their favorite pundit has spewed recently. Of course both sides are going to take polar-opposite sides on these issues. It's called posturing. When you go to buy a car, do you start at the highest price you're willing to pay?
Clark Canada
11:09 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I have to agree with CCW and Kris, while disagreeing with Bob and Walter, both of whom sketch scenarios and vaguely hint at data they think prove their points. In fact, there are no such data. This is not a topic for warrantless assertion. You cannot just suggest your own world of data or argue from compelling hypothetical scenarios you sketch in a comment box.
There are, according to varying studies in peer-reviewed academic journals, anywhere from 150,000 to 4 million instances per annum, depending upon how the data are acquired, of successful defensive gun use (DGU) in the United States. Many of these happen outside of the home. Compare those numbers to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports from 2011: 6,220 killed by handguns and 323 by rifle. At the low end, that's still 415 lives a day affected by or saved by firearm usage, and at the high end that's 11,000 lives a day.
Please educate yourselves. I would begin with the FBI's Uniform Crime Data tables. I would move on to the 2004 National Academy of Sciences meta-analysis, a 328 page study aggregating 253 academic articles, 43 government publications, 99 books, and a survey of roughly 80 different gun-control laws. It concluded that *no correlation can be found between gun control and crime rates* -- meaning despite decades of trying, there is no evidence gun control works. It is entitled "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review."
BTW, this isn't a Rep vs Dem issue. 40% of Democrats are gun owners. I'm one of them.
11:19 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I'll probably get beat up for this comment but, while I totally agree with you part of me doesn't want anyone to be able to carry. Do background checks really prove that someone won't use a gun in a bad way? I don't know what background checks show but just because someone has a good medical history and no prior crime history, doesn't mean they won't snap someday in the checkout line at the grocery store. I really don't want to be going to the store knowing that there are people walking around with a loaded weapon. That is putting a lot of faith in people that they will be responsible. Then again maybe most of them are good and you'd never know they had one on them. I wouldn't partake though, in 2013 to have to arm myself everywhere I go? What has our country come to? Maybe if bad guys know that people are armed they are less likely to try something but I am mainly referring to the unstable people. There have been many stories on line about legitimate gun owners who use their weapons in a bad way.
TP Resident
11:26 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@Lucy do you know how many bad guys are already carrying to the places you go? Many of them. While your thoughts of someone snapping and having a gun. Guess what if someone is going to snap and want to do harm to others they will. But if that happened at a store right now we would be screwed. If that happened at a store and we were able to Conceal and Carry there would be how many guns pointed back at that one guy? Saving us all.
11:33 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Lucy...you ask "what has our country become?" LIBERAL. Its the bleeding hearts that feel sorry for criminals at the expense of good people. I would rather live in a country where the bad guys are scared of the good guys. Maybe you like it the other way around. The concealed carry law in Illinois does not make weapons carriers into policemen, it only gives the carrier a chance to defend himself. If you choose to live in fear then, by all means, stay at home. I have been the victim of violent crime and I legally carry when I leave Illinois. I don't feel big and bad when I carry a gun, I pray I will never have to use it, but I will never again feel exposed and unsafe. The instances of law-abiding citizens using their guns in a bad way, as you describe, are very rare....good old fashioned American street violence happens several thousand times a day so I guess your argument is shot. You have a chioce...be a victim or not.
tony Kay
12:29 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Shall not be infringed. That is what 2nd Amend. states. Even at time when it was amended the Pennsylvania rifle was so technologically advanced even more so than todays Glocks, etc...
When we awoke this morning 100 million gun owners did not go out and commit crimes with heir weapons. The only suggestion to all this anti- gun rhetoric and anti constitutionalists is to leave and go to a so called safer nation. We still allow you to leave! However, once they have control of your guns they will not allow you to leave. They the gov't will have them pointed at you, inside your government ruled nation, not allowing you leave. Sounds far fetched and radical doesn't it? Ask the folks from Eastern Europe. But can happen because people who want to be controlled will be controlled. So please, leave us independent types alone and go live in your utopia in some far fetched land where you think you will be safer.
1:37 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
That's why we need federal laws, because all gun free zones are bordered by areas that aren't gun free. 1/2 of the guns used in crime is Chicago is from out of the area.
J. Ann
4:09 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I agree, leave the guns alone. I think they need to focus on the mind-bending prescription meds for depression, anxiety, etc. a lot more, and make the psych docs a lot more accountable for their patients. Period.
4:10 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Not all gang members have arrest records, they are able to purchase guns for other gang members.
5:20 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Here we go again with the comparisons to Nazi Germany and drunk driving. Why bother with the conversation if some people don't deal in reality and aren't willing to even compromise on anything. Paranoia rules their world.
5:39 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ Stones I never liked the driving/gun argumnet. But NOW times have changed. Driving is NOW A RIGHT in IL.,no longer a privilige. When they give ilegal's the RIGHT to drive it now can be a IL. argument.
For my RIGHT for a concael carry permit I MUST be fingerprinted. For the RIGHT to drive in IL. you do not.
It was the politicians who used THE RIGHT TO DRIVE in getting the law passed
8:03 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I agree totally with CCW. Criminals will always have a way to get guns, there's no way around it. Why should my rights be taken away because of the nuts out there. I want to feel safe when I leave my home and have a way to defend myself at all times. Everyone that wants to carry a handgun should have to go through training and safety. And anyone who's been in trouble with the law should be denied. Do you honestly think that if a criminal has any doubt if you have a gun or not that he/she would take the chance? I don't think so. I'd rather be safe then sorry. Nobody's telling you that you must carry....so if you are against it then don't carry but don't take away MY RIGHT to carry one!!!
11:50 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
"MANY more people die from auto accidents and heck, even baseball bats every year than guns."
Hmmm, not so much.
Homicides 2011:
Total Firearm Deaths: 8,583 (of which 6,220 were handguns)
"Blunt Objects" i.e., Bats: 496
Lest pesky facts get called into question, here's a link:
I'm all for healthy debate, but let's not make stuff up just to attempt to prove a nonsensical point.
9:47 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
How can you possibly not trust the government to watch out for our best interest, after all they do know what is best for all of us. Just look how well they have handled the BUDGET,SOCIAL SECURITY,AND PENSIONS, not to mention how well they have kept the promise of no increase in taxes or health care. I guess you're all a bunch of non- believers huh?
6:54 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
CCW, I agree. Responsible gun owners are not the problem. I haven't ever felt that my life was in danger on the streets. That being said, I don't go places where I know that is an issue. But there are increasing amounts of violence in places that you have assumed to be "safe". I think that it would make someone think twice before opening fire on a crowd of people, or coming up to you on the street to rob you. E bad guys carry guns all the time. It's about time for those law abiding citizens to be able to do the same.
6:54 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
A "gun free zone" simply defines a target area for someone with the intent to do harm. Will any person that wants to hurt or kill others be impacted by a law or sign that says "no guns"? The courts have said that the residents of Illinois are finally allowed to defend and protect themselves outside the home. The state of Illinois wants to continue to deny us that right in a long list of public places. There will probably be a greater risk of injury by making citizens arm and disarm themselves so many times per day.
Katherine Willis Pershey
7:33 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I encourage readers to consider this piece that explores how people really react in crisis. Civilians carrying guns will not make anyone safer. http://swampland.time.com/2013/01/16/your-brain-in-a-shootout-guns-fear-and-flawed-instincts/
7:53 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Kathy, if you really want to know how many firearms are used by civilians in crisis situations, visit the NRA website and click on The Armed Citizen. There are literally thousands of examples of how people have used guns to successfully save themselves or others in high-stress situations. Can I ask why you think more of a common criminals life than you do of a law-abiding citizen? Criminals carry guns and all the gun laws in the country do not dissuade them from doing so, so why do liberals find it so preposterous that we poor unwashed peasants should be able to defend ourselves? I certainly know people who should not even be allowed to own guns, much less carry them, but it is their RIGHT to do so that is guaranteed by the Constitution of this country. I will never understand why so many people are more than willing to give up their Rights for the false belief that the government will keep them safe. Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility that no one should take lightly and there are people in the world who are responsible enough to be trusted with that responsibility. Most intellegent people agree on sensible gun laws and the abilility to defend themselves. What part of that don't liberals understand? Millions of law-abiding. armed Americans killed no one last night.
7:56 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ Katherine, You need to take your liberal blinders off and look at true facts. Everyday an armed citizen with a gun saves there own life or someone else's. Case in point, The oregon mall incident a few months back. As the network news doesn't broadcast the entire story (imagine that) a man with a CCW drew on the assailant but didn't have a clean shot. When the perp saw this he took his own life. Good guys with a gun 1, deranged maniac dead. Do yourself a favor and research your own news instead of watching the propaganda on the networks.
Walter Bruun
9:09 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
CCW wants you to go the the gun manfacturers lobbying arm (NRA) website to get "facts" on guns, and merk wants you to go the a "minuteman" website. We would have a lot more ACTUAL facts at our disposal about gun safety and effects of gun ownership by "law abiding" citizens, but Republicans in Congress - in their infinite wisdom - decided to defund the Centers for Disease Control's research into the subject, maybe they want us to rely soley on the "unbiased" folks at the NRA & "minutemen" sites. Oh, and merk - that article about the guy in the mall, there were no other witnesses & the guy with the gun (who never fired a shot) wasn't sure the gunman even saw him - that would be a "fail".
9:31 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Walter, you can liberalize all you want but you are going to get your hat handed to you in this forum. Most people who believe in what this country was founded on will stand on the side of guns any day. If you would, please post a sign in your yard stating that you are proudly gun free and the rest of us are all slobbering gun-nuts. Some of us still honor the Founders of this country and revere the Constitution as the Supreme law of the Land and God the Supreme being in the universe. You liberals have moved so far from the Bible that you believe the moral decay of this country, while sickening, is perfectly ok.
Kurt Bihler
10:00 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Katherine and Walter. If you don't want to carry a concealed firearm, then don't. But why do you want to interfere with those of us to decided to take that responsibility? It has no effect on you. Is it just passive/aggressive meanness?
Walter Bruun
10:03 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ CCW - I never said I was gun free & i never said I was against guns - why don't you directly answer my statements? I know why, because you can't in any logical fashion. The Constitution's 2nd Amendment reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the protection of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". The "Well Regulated" part refers to US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, clauses 14 - 16, I suggest you read it. Yes, you will "stand on the side of guns anyday" but not on the side of murdered schoolchildren. There is a patchwork of gun laws in this country that enable crooks and crazies access to all kinds of weapons, all one needs to do is cross the border into Indiana to purchase a weapon at a gun show with no background check - the Constitution clearly gives the US Congress the responsibility to regulate arms & who should be able to access them.
10:08 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you get? All law-abiding gun owners want to tighten up the screening process of who can legally own a firearm. That just makes sense as the Lamestream media portrays ALL gun owners as violent crazies when someone blows an o-ring and goes on a shooting rampage. I am not advocating handing a loaded weapon to everyone like you make it sound.
11:24 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
ccw, just because it is a right doesn't mean you have to own a gun. You say you know people who should'nt own a gun but do because it's their right. That right there shows it's wrong. I don't give up my rights by not owning a gun. I have the right not to. Not many realize the responsiblity of owning a gun, that is why I don't want everyone to own one, just because it is their right to do so.
11:44 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Lucy...I also know people who drink themselves into a stupor and then climb into their 3000 pound missle and get on the road with the rest of us. Do we ban cars because someone MIGHT get drunk and drive? You have a better chance of getting killed by a drunk driver than you do a concealed weapons holder...how does that make you feel? Can you agree that we have a serious irresponsibility problem in this country or do you feel ok knowing that at any time of the day you could be killed or seriously injured by a drunk? If someone is going to flip out with a gun, I want the chance to shoot back but I know the chances of a law-abiding citizen doing that is so rare that it is almost non-existant. Like I said earlier...IF YOU TRAVEL OUT OF ILLINOIS , YOU ARE IN A STATE WHERE PEOPLE ARE CARRYING GUNS!!
5:47 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Whats the matter Naperville mom, was I the easiest target for a drive-by smear attack? If you don't have a constructive comment to add then you should keep your arguments up there in Snob City.
Ernie Knight
1:06 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Katherine and Walter,
Look up the Virginia School shooting stopped by law school students. Check out ALL the media sources. You'll find that 2 of those students were ARMED when they stopped the school shooting and detained the shooter for police.
7:42 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
No "gun free" zones. Only the law abiding citizens honor them. We have the right to keep safe and the bad guys don't honor the zones...or carry FOID cards...or carry registered and legal weapons. We need to enforce the current laws on the books.
Walter Bruun
9:26 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ DK - the problem with "enforcing the current laws on the books" is that 33 states do not require background checks by non-FFL (Licensed Federal Firearms dealers) sellers - who account for about 25% of the sales at gun shows. That's where (for the most part) "bad guys" get their guns. Make it harder for thugs to get guns & they won't be able to get as many! BTW - Adam Lanza's mom was a "law abiding" citizen - her guns certainly didn't protect her.
9:35 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Adam Lanza was mentally defective, was his mother supposed to hold a gun on him while at her home? He was not legally able to own guns and killed his own mother to get hers. My God, you liberals and you ass-backwards "reasoning" is astounding!
Walter Bruun
10:07 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
The fact that Mrs. Lanza was a "law abiding" gun owner, and her multitude of guns could not protect her should wake you people up. She was supposed to be "responsible" yet kept high powered weapons in a home where a mentally unstable and dangerous individual lived - who then turned her own weapon on her - this happens more times than you would like to admit. 26 families, whose lives are forever changed, have paid for her decision.
10:13 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Well Walter, I would love to sit and talk guns all day but I have things to do. We will be carrying concealed handguns on June 9th of this year. whether you like it or not. The courts have ruled in our favor so you control freaks can go suck hind tit...AGAIN! Have a great day!
Baba Wawa
3:16 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I wouldn't be so sure we'll be conceal carrying on June 9 or 10. The 7th Circuit said they have to craft a law by then. God only knows what kind of law the legislature is going to craft, mainly when it will take effect. Will it be July 1? January 1, 2014?
Naperville Mom
4:53 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
CCW--you are beginning to sound like an individual who may not pass a mental health assessment (like the one you mentioned in your first post). You are doing the pro-gun folks a disservice and undermining a useful discussion of the topic for everyone.
Arthur W. Wiggins Jr.
7:50 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I am a pro gunner, if data supported the elimination of guns because it either threaten the existence of society, or because it offered no security to liberty then I would change my to anti guns.
One armed mentally ill person or criminal does not have a chance in a room full of armed sane people.
Also I recognize that a large number of people, once motivated can become irrational and violent.
Seeing that it is more likely that we encounter mentally ill and criminals that are armed compared to large groups of armed citizens, then the safety would remain on then side of the public being freely armed.
simply because we have the right to be armed does not mean everyone will be.
Regardless of how people think, the purpose of the 2nd amendment is to insure freedom and liberty. There are far greater examples of this working in America than there are examples of it not working.
Spencer D. Smith
11:10 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
"One armed mentally ill person or criminal does not have a chance in a room full of armed sane people."
It worked out really well for that sniper guy who was killed at a gun range a couple of weeks ago. He was armed. So was everyone around him.
I'm not against people owning and carrying weapons by the way. It just should be very strictly regulated. The "gun show loophole" is also super ridiculous. I can't believe it has stayed open as long as it has.
1:51 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Spencer- All the accounts of Chris Kyle's murder that I have read seem to infer that the 3 guys were ALONE at a rural gun range and that both victims were shot multiple times at point blank range.... possibly the 2 guys weren't even facing their killer?
Kurt Bihler
7:54 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Illinois is the ONLY state left without concealed carry. I don't understand why there is even a debate. None of the "bad" things happen. Cross the state line in any direction and you can experience the result. OMG, Illinois will become Iowa! Pulleese!
9:44 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
What most of the anti-gunners forget is that if you travel outside of The Peoples Republic of Illinois is that they are automatically in a concealed carry state, and all of the bloodshed and mayhem that they say will happen here, never happens anywhere else, or should I say, rarely happens anywhere else. Leave Illinois and you are surrounded by people packing guns. Hows that argument working for them?
Walter Bruun
10:10 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ CCW - per FBI statistics, Chicago's gun murder rate is no.31 out of US cities - you know who is no. 1? New Orleans, where they have both concealed & open carry - their murder rate is almost 3 times that of Chicago.
10:17 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Does it say anywhere in those statistics how many legal CCW permit holders are the victims of those murders, or do you think it is ghetto crime like it is in Chicago? Better get some more statistics there bud.
J. Ann
4:45 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
There's a debate because of people like Rahm Emanuel and other liberals controlling Chicago who seem to think they control the rest of the state. It's crazy, but no surprise.
Anthony Cheng
7:55 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I agree with one point that Katherine brings up. To be responsible gun owners, we need to train regularly. That includes tossing lead down a line to put holes in paper. This should occur regularly. Also, a CCW state creates a deterrent when criminals cannot guarantee that law abiding citizens are ripe (and unarmed) for the picking.
7:55 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ Katherine, You need to take your liberal blinders off and look at true facts. Everyday an armed citizen with a gun saves there own life or someone else's. Case in point, The oregon mall incident a few months back. As the network news doesn't broadcast the entire story (imagine that) a man with a CCW drew on the assailant but didn't have a clean shot. When the perp saw this he took his own life. Good guys with a gun 1, deranged maniac dead. Do yourself a favor and research your own news instead of watching the propaganda on the networks.
Arthur W. Wiggins Jr.
8:02 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
By the way we do not need any more laws to punish bad guys..... and we do not need anymore laws to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill either. We have enough.
The level of gun violence in American society has not increased but has decreased. The sensationalization of gun violence by the news media has increased 2000% ( not a true stat, but a point)
In any society where a dangerous object exists mistakes and perversions of that object will happen....it is our responsibility to respond appropriately IF the use of these objects occur with a frequency so high that it threaten genocide ...... 15 thousand deaths annually in a population of 311 million does not threaten our population or any race there of.
Walter Bruun
9:35 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
In 33 states anyone can go to a gun show & buy a weapon at a gun show with no background check - where do you think the "bad guys" get their guns? "15 thousand deaths..." you might think differenlty if one of those 15,000 was your child in the 1st grade. Adam Lanza's mother was a law abiding citizen - did her guns protect her?
9:46 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Like it or not Walter...we will be packing come June 9th. You can try to figure out who is carrying and give them a good scolding.
Ernie Knight
12:52 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Being at a gun show does not change the law. All FFL dealers MUST do a background check, regardless of where the transaction takes place in ALL 50 states.
Illegal Straw Purchases, like ATF was allowing to happen under Fast and Furious, are a major source of illegal guns. Those straw purchases have been felonies for decades.
bridget tully
8:13 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I do not believe there should be any gun free zones for anyone who is legally carrying a firearm. The criminals would not adhere to the gun free zones just like they do not go through the legal means to obtain their firearms.
Naperville Mom
5:36 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
But you wouldn't suggest eliminating "drug-free zones" around schools, I'm sure. The zone heightens penalties for drug offenses. However, even in a drug-free zone, a student with a prescription drug can leave his/her medication with the nurse to be appropriately administered. Perhaps there are sensible solutions like this to the gun issue as well.
9:06 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I am retired law enforcement and as such am legally allowed to carry concealed in every state including Illinois. I also associate with active and retired officers and we all carry concealed. Point being every time you go out there are firearms all around you and there is no issue; this includes the people that carry even though they are not legally allowed to do so. We are not somehow more special because we are or were law enforcement, there is no issue with us because we are not mentally ill as was the case in the three most recent nationally publicized incidents. The media has a clear anti firearm agenda which is why you'll never see an article in which a citizen uses a firearm to either thwart a crime and/or protect themselves or someone else. Life by it's very nature has risks. According to the CDC every year about 700 kids under the age of 14 die as a result of accidental drowning but nobody is demanding that swimming pools be banned. Hundreds have also died since the '70's due to government mandated cafe standards for automobiles but our government doesn't seem to take issue with this either. This is not about safety it's about agenda.
9:15 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
As far as I know retired law enforcement are not allowed to carry in Illinois once their employment has ended. My father was CPD.
You better check to see if you were really law enforcement.
9:29 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Have your dad go here:
It will explain the process and he can submit an application.
Walter Bruun
9:42 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ german - the CDC has had their funding to research gun related deaths and accidents cut by Republicans in Congress for the last several years, so we don't really have any recent, accurate numbers for gun related incidents. Swimming pools are regulated - if you have a pool & a kid dies in it you're sure going to be raked over the coals & probably sued. Swimming pools & autos have a primary purpose other than killing, a firearms' primary purpose is to kill. Firearms should be regulated just like autos - you should have to take a test, make sure you're physicaly & mentally stable, you should register & insure it & renew every 3 yrs or so.
10:09 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
You mention accidental drowning, and that nobody is demanding that swimming pools be banned. I don't think anyone here is talking about accidental shootings. I find it silly to compare something accidental to something intentional.
10:14 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
That's the system used by the politically connected. They are deputized as auxiliary deputies or some such and are allowed to carry. They don't want you to be as safe as the important people.
Ernie Knight
9:07 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
The National Safety Council keeps accurate statistics. Why would the CDC need to be funded to perform political research?
IPA Drone
9:14 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
If a location is labeled a gun free zone they should require that the location provide armed security.
9:17 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
A concealed weapon is like wearing a pair of shoes while out and about,
should be standard attire in the Chicagoland area now days.
For safety's sake, like wearing a seat belt is !
9:32 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Isn't it true that Chicago Aldermen, many of them gang members and convicted felons , have always given themselves the right to be the only Chicago Residents to own and carry guns ?
J. Ann
4:54 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
How about that---like the "honorable" Bobby Rush---or how about Jesse Jackson Jr.? (he got "busted" for who he really is) Then there's Blago whatever---bet he packed a gun. Isn't it crazy who they will allow to rule and reign?!
9:33 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
we allow our sporting venues, our politicians, our malls , our campaign events, to have armed guards ,,,,,, but not our the places our children spend most of their waking hours, our schools
9:36 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Since Jan 2012 , over 540 shooting deaths in Chicago,,, over 30 have been school age kids,,, not one by an NRA member,,,, and 96 % of shooters and victims NON WHITE
1) PER the DNC, 93% of shooters would be DNC supporters,,,
2) if the proportion of shooters or victims had been white,, THE NATIONAL GUARD WOULD BE CALLED IN
10:17 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Good thinking brotha.........blame the caucasians for all the woes
Could it be that they have more common sense than the Drug dealers, Pimps
and Gang bangers doing the majority of killing in CHA'CONGO
So let's blame them for being too law abiding and civilized !!
9:37 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
There was more access to guns 50 years ago then now. There was also less gun violence than now. Society changed. A gun is nothing more than a tool, no different than an ax.
Walter Bruun
10:13 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
50 years ago - hmm, 1963 - what event happened in 1963? Oh yeah - JFK was assassinated! Blacks at the time probably wouldn't agree with your assessment about "less violence" in that era. A gun's primary purpose is to kill something, an axe's is to chop wood - big difference.
Don Buck
9:48 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I would be in favor of banning the carrying by "good guys" in taverns, libraries, schools, etc., if it could be assured that the "bad guys" with guns would not be allowed in those places as well. Any ideas as to how this could be accomplished??
9:53 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Ask Walter up there^^^^...he seems to have all the answers. I'll bet my tinfoil hat that he is one of those who fled the city...and brought all of his bad habits with him.
Walter Bruun
10:17 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ CCW - there are ways to make sure that bad guys and mentally unfit people have a harder time accessing weapons - of course they won't completely be prevented, but presently it's very easy for anyone to get a weapon in the 33 states that don't require background checks. Require background checks, licensing, registration & insurance for every firearms that's solde in the US - that should be required for licensed gun dealers and also for individual sellers.
Ernie Knight
9:11 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
You're forgetting that every firearm sale by a Federal Firearms Licensee (dealer)MUST include a background check, in ALL 50 states.
10:18 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Illegal guns coming into the United States is almost as bad as illegal people crossing the borders yet nothing is being done.We have tough laws against gang members having guns ,excons having guns, dope peddlers having guns, yet these people are arressted and released every day of the week. Some cities have passed laws that don't allow any firearms within the city limits which have been very successful and with the law comes the provision that anyone caught having a gun within the city limits will get a maximum sentence . I would like to see laws like this spread to counties, I think a lot of people would chose to live in a gun free county.
11:12 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Tony, please go to second city cop site It's a Chicago Cop blog. You can read all about your "successful" laws where criminals get the maximum sentance. You can also check out the other sites you can go to on this site. Sorry, It will prove that you are wrong. You wil read about felon after felon out and about commiting crimes.
10:19 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Everyone is a "responsible gun owner" right up until the point they're not.
11:09 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
― Ronald Reagan
Ernie Knight
9:13 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Except for the gun owners who are violating Federal Law by making illegal straw purchases. Amazing how little goes into the investigation and prosecution of those.
Your slogan is not compelling.
10:26 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I won't pretend to know the stats, but I'd like to think that more lives have been saved by guns then have been taken by guns, but again, I don't know of any stats to confirm that. Since I live in "Mayberry" I don't experience the gun violance that is seen daily in Chicago, and I'm grateful. My concern is, the guy in the bar, who had a few too many, that gets into an arguement and shoots someone. The people on roads everywhere who get cut off in traffic, suffer a single bout of road rage, and someone dies. I'dhate to find myself in a theater, and some mentally disturbed idiot starts shooting and 10 movie-goers, start shooting at the bad guy. How in the world, in a dark theater do you know who is trying to protect themselves, and others and who isn't? Where do you draw the line, and how many innocent people could die because someone, anyone "felt threatened" and kills another person. I'm not against guns, I own guns for my own protection, but I also know that I am not a mental-case, or someone who would just snap cause something didn't go my way. I think along with the discussion about gun laws, we need to also talk about raising our children to respect human life, and to know that with freedom comes responsibility. I know I'll get hammered for this, and that is OK, I believe in Freedom of Speech. I think if 1 parent was home, raising their kids, and more people were in Church on Sunday instead of plopped in front of TV's playing video games, we'd all be better off.
Naperville Mom
6:29 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Kimberly, last year in Naperville a school teacher was stabbed at Frankie's Blue Room, remember that? The thought has crossed my mind, "What if he had had a gun," a semiautomatic one with 30 rounds... Tragedy worse than what we had right? Now, what if the bouncer had had a gun? Would the drunken wretch have even pulled out a knife? What if the bouncers had Tasers at least. I want protection too, but not in the form of something that gives the enemy the advantage. I'm sending a daughter out of "Mayberry" in the fall. The other day she cut someone off at the MacDonalds on Ogden (not intentionally). The guy partially rolled down his tinted windows and with a his fingers pointed pretends to shoot her. Whatever happened to beeping, flippin the bird? Geez, really, shooting at my girl? She was shaken up by it.
TP Resident
10:59 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Any of you out there that want to ban fire arms please answer this question/scenario.......At 2am when someone breaks into your house. Whats your plan? How are you going to save your family and yourself? If your answer is to pull that baseball bat out from under your bed and run after the person(s) who with no doubt will be carrying a gun (because it is 2am they know you are home. They are breaking in clearly at this hour to do harm to those in the house) you are out of your mind. Ever hear the saying "You don't bring a knife to a gun fight?" Yes I am sure you will call 911 but guess what, count on them being to your house in 2-5..minutes. I am pretty sure the bad guy would have already taken care of you with your baseball bat and sadly the rest of your family and be gone.
By wanting to ban firearms your mostly hurting law abiding citizens who want to protect their families. Cause no matter what the bad guys looking to do harm will always have their hands on a gun. And we the law abiding citizen will continue to be the victims. Guns don't kill people. People with the intent to kill, kill people.
TP Resident
11:13 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@Oldeegee...Your right thats just a TV scenario. It never just happens in real life....OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!
Don Buck
11:32 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
oldeegee - there was an incident in Wheaton, a few days ago, where a stranger entered a house and when confronted said "I have the wrong address". It does happen.
11:26 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Murder Stats from the World Health Organization
Murders per 100,000 people
Honduras 91.6
El Salvador 69.2
Venezuela 45
Colombia 33
Brazil 21
Kenya 20
Greenland 19
Russia 10
Pakistan 7
Thialand 4.8
11:26 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
The gun laws this country was founded on were from a different time and place. I wonder if those same men would feel the same today?
11:49 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
The Founders of this country recognized the need for its citizens to be armed for only one purpose: the overthrow a tyrranical government, which we have right now. I am convinced the Founding Fathers would want us armed more now than ever before in history. I guess you were absent the day they taught History in school.
3:06 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Our Founding Fathers were well aware of the constant improvements in firearm technology. Rifle improvements helped us win the Revolutionary War. Cannons used in the war were mostly borrowed from private citizens.
The Federalist Papers also discuss this issue at length. "Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Our Founders were very bright, and lacked neither imagination or foresight. They also knew their history and understood very well what governments do to unarmed populaces. They believed, as I do, that the only way a free people can remain that way is if they have the ability to defend themselves.
11:29 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
By AWR HAWKINS, Breitbart.com
According to the FBI annual crime statistics, the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outnumbers the number of murders committed with a rifle.
Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.
For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.
Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-rights...#ixzz2GxeyQ9SK
11:31 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Just a little more on statistics...US is NOT the world leader in murders.
Jeff Gaspar
11:52 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
We are the leading developed country by way of firearm deaths.
11:35 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
great blog.....................
11:44 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Lets look at the problem in California The X cop that went nuts. He had a LOT of background checks and slipped through the cracks. This proves your not going to stop everyone with backgroud checks. I read his unedited manifesto. He stated he was in a conforntation in grade school and never was going to be treated that way agian. He took and passed a lot of background checks.(police-military)
I always hated the car/gun arguement. Driving a privilige, Firearm ownership a right. WELL that's changed for me now. The state of IL. now see's driving as a RIGHT not a privilige so it now can be brought up in the argument.
11:53 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
There are numerous incidents of bad cops who slip through the cracks. Go to Youtube or Copwatch if you don't believe me. There was a day when cops were respected but now they are feared. Something is wrong with that, no?
Jeff Gaspar
11:51 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
The NRA worshipers here are crazy. Guns in the home are 10 time more likely to kill a family member or visitor by accident than in defense of one's life or liberty. Gun crimes committed in the heat of passion make them even more dangerous. The 2nd amendment was written at a much different time in our country's history. It's time for change. It's just too bad the NRA has such a huge budget an can control almost any election it chooses. It's no wonder our country is the laughing stock of the developed world.
12:00 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Our government and all the thieves and liberal idiots that run it, is why we are the laughing stock of the world. Guns are everywhere in the world, it is not just an American thing. Last night I slept with a gun in my nightstand and it did not kill me so how do you say that guns kill people? Or did you mean that a person killed another person with a gun? Go to the end of the line and come back when you have an actual argument.
Jeff Gaspar
12:23 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Guns are not owned by private citizens everywhere in the developed and civilized world. Get your facts straight before commenting. But then again, if you did that, you wouldn't be the gun toting, NRA worshiping idiot you appear to be.
Yes, people pull the trigger, but if those guns were not so readily available, heat of the moment killings and crimes of passion would not occur. The accidental injuries would drop as would the number of suicides.
Wake up you feeble minded moron!
1:00 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ Jeff: I'm not going to do your homework for you. However, you say that guns are not owned by private citizens elsewhere in the developed and civilized world.
Maybe you should take a look at Canada. Perhaps they don't meet your definition of developed and civilized I guess. All they need for most firearms is a PAL, a license similar to our FOID.
1:31 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Jeff, in response to your "heat of the moment/crimes of passion" comment, what EXACTLY is stopping a person from committing that crime with or WITHOUT a gun? Seems to me that if someone is that out of balance, they are going to pick up whatever is handy? Maybe a hammer or a knife or a baseball bat OR a gun..... now if someone was coming at you (in the "heat of the moment") with a baseball bat (pretty deadly, look up the stats) how are you going to defend yourself? With a spoon?
4:03 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Number of guns per capita by country:
Gun ownership per country:
Ernie Knight
9:17 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Your psuedo-statistic only includes intruders KILLED. It completely ignores MILLIONS of lawful uses of firearms by civilians defending their lives and their loved ones WITHOUT killing the violent criminal.
Edward Andrysiak
11:51 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
All the bla, bla won't change the facts which are:
The only defination of an Assualt weapon is it must be capable of full automatic fire and have a bayonette slot. Anything else is a sport weapon. PERIOD
All people will not give up their guns....ever!
All people will not register all their guns...by type and number....ever!
Some people will carry everywhere regardless of the laws.
Stupid laws will be ignored...by good people.
Bad guys will always find a way to kill...guns or ????
You can not be protected by your government from violence.
Accidents and bad things happen, even to good people.
( reality check!)
Tom Koz
12:20 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
My guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car!!
How is it that you need a background check to own a gun...but not run a country?? - Uhhm think Obama!
IF guns kill people, then: Pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, forks make people fat, and matches cause arson!
Why do I carry a gun....because a cop is too heavy!
Average response time to 911 calls: 23 minutes. The response time of my .357: 1,400 feet per Second!!
OH and Liberals, I'll pay for Your contraception when you pay for my Ammunition!!
1:09 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
My shotgun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car too! Since 1974 the shotgun has been well behaved, not once has it jumped out of the closet and shot someone.
1:36 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Hey!!! my .270, .243, .22, .50cal or my 12ga haven't killed anyone either!! (well, that I know of anyway, maybe they sneak out at night and cause mayhem?)
J. Ann
5:13 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
That background check comment is right on target! :D Yet he gets away with it. Gun control is about an evil agenda to disarm us, it really is. People, don't believe the liberal media---they are just capitalizing on crises---remember Rahm's comment? Never, ever wate a good crisis! Don't let them stir your emotions or stimulate fear! It's all in their plan to control.
12:31 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ CCW If you want to see somthing thats funny and off the wall google jessie jackson on the turks show around 1/3/2013 You will not beleive what jj says. It has got to be one of the funniest thing I have ever seen. Even the liberal host almost laughed.
I just hope it's still up and not edited. People out there beleive this stuff.
Tom Koz
12:32 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
5 "Recent" worst mass murders in the US with a firearm:
1: Ft. Hood: registered Decmocrat/Muslim.
2: Columbine: too young to vote; both families were registered Democrats and progressive liberals.
3: Virginia Tech: wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff.
4: Colorado Theater: registered Democrat, staff worker on the Obama campaign., Occupy Wall Street participant, progressive liberal.
5: Connecticut School Shootrer: registered Democrat; hated Christians.
12:35 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
957 deaths in Illinois by car accidents on are roadways and not once have you heard about a ban on driving! And now will even give illegals a license. It's are AMERICAN RIGHT TO CARRY !!!! GOD BLESS US ALL cause this country is falling apart! Pay the poor and tax the working till they lose everything!!!!!
12:44 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Chinaestablished gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemalaestablished gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Ugandaestablished gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodiaestablished gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Ernie Souchak
2:20 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@nick - and the left-wing liberals would respond to you and say, 'that would never happen HERE.' Which is exactly what they said in all your above examples. If anyone thinks that the Democrats aren't trying to move from background checks to registration, to confiscation, then I've got a bridge I want to sell you. Gun control is not about guns. It's about control. Remember, slaves aren't allowed to have guns.
12:50 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Has anyone read the bill thats up? It's HB0997 Citizens safety & self protection defence trust fund. I found a interesting thing.
Section 15 Subject to APPROPRIATION moneys in the fund shall exclusively be used to assist the dept. with administrative costs associated with this act.
Watch the money fly out of it as soon as they think they have enough to run it.
Patrick Sennett
12:54 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
No guns in courtrooms or on airplanes. There should be no other "gun-free" zones. Any place that is a "gun-free" zone is just telling bad guys that they're safe there. To get a Concealed Carry permit, you should have a background check and pass some sort of a recognized training program, and you should have to re-qualify periodically, much like a drivers license. Any conviction for violence or threats, or order of protection filed against you should cause your status to be reviewed and possibly revoked.
Naperville Mom
5:57 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Agree. Plus, insurance, much like car insurance. These are solutions! I really believe that we can come up with sensible gun management if we just stop hurling insults.
What about schools and universities Patrick? Should we have a guard(s), but be otherwise gun-free? Can you see a freshmen dorm packed with 19 year olds carrying guns? I have a daughter going to college in Chicago in the fall so safety is on my mind.
Maybe folks like Skully, retired and licensed to carry (hopefully background checked and mentally stable) should be hired by our schools to protect our kids. I went to a school that had a metal detector for admittance, armed guards (who were really nice), and barbed-wire fencing. I felt safer inside the school than out. However, I am completely opposed to arming school teachers.
12:56 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
PEOPLE ASK ...Why carry a gun?
The old Grandpa said
I don't carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
I don't carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.
I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
I don't carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.
Police protection is an oxymoron.
Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.
I carry a gun because God gave me the Right to do so; it is inalienable.
Old Grandpa
1:01 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
First if the State of Illinois is going to jump on the bandwagon do not make more dumb laws that nobody can enforce. CCW everywhere or nowhere. Second I don't know how I feel about law abiding citizens joining the gangsters in carrying a gun. I can say that in my opinion those vocal in proposing the right to carry are the same crazy sounding nuts that are scaring people out of the Republican Party. Sorry but when I read some of these posts I visualize a fat old guy with a John Wayne attitude and a beer gut. Multiplying the amount of crazies with guns. Last thing I want is to be pinned down while these two factions shoot it out. With that said I feel everyone will be forced to carry whether we wanted to or not. This is what drives the new gun manufacturing led nra.
1:40 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
WOW A law abiding citizen joining gangsters. crazies with guns Nobody if going to force you to carry. Go read the proposed bill HB0997 Then come back and talk with us OK I have a Florida carry permit,and in the traing I went through for it I did learn new things. I have been around firearms my whole life almost 60 years. Years ago in a I shot about once a month with a lot of Cops,out shot most of them. Now I live in kendall county and if I want I can go shot in my backyard (yes I checked it's legal where I live) so know I can practice anytime I want. I keep guns locked up except for 2 for home protection. When not at home all guns locked up. What do you want us fat old beer gut John Waynes to do??
Tom Koz
1:04 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
The Supreme Court has ruled on various occasions that the police are under NO legal obligation to protect you or keep you safe!!
1:11 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Now Tom don't scare them with the truth And yes your point if a FACT
1:12 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
People watch this Video for a wake up call !!!!
To see just what and who are doing most of the killing in the USA
Eric Blair
2:12 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I do like many of the available autoloaders, some are very fine pieces. However when traveling with my family I prefer my Ruger LCR (Lightweight Compact Revolver) 357cal. Only five shots but that's enough. New technology hasn't been reserved only for smart phones, the new shooters now available are state of the art. Find one that suits yourself and pick it up. Even if you never fire it off the range just having it with you gives piece of mind. "Better to have a gun and not need one than to need a gun and not have one". Most police never fire their weapon while on duty, all the way to retirement. Most guns used in self defense are never fired, just showing the aggressor/robber you are armed defuses most situations.
2:31 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
There are a conservative estimate of over 280 million firearms in this country not including military or law enforcement. Will any of these meetings on gun control come up with a way to control them? I doubt it!
George Pickett
2:46 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
There sure are a lot of interesting comments on this issue. But the BOTTOM line is what would you do if someone broke into your house with a gun and threatened your family? Reason with him? Call the police and WAIT? Or, if you had a handgun, aim to kill him? Law abiding gun owners who have been trained to use guns and secure them are not the problem. It's the thugs, gangbangers and septc tank dwellers tha are the problem.
3:37 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
this video is rather shocking but it Nutshells what pro gun people feel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXm9_MwQBm0
the point the goal is to effect a good arrest and not to act as bodyguards While some cops may decide to do so its always in the back of there mind all these things i worfk for may disappear in some suit .... The police have no legal duty to protect you
3:28 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I stand behind the gun owner..... literally No one gets those double actions with a hair trigger is a very very hard thing to aim .....
3:35 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
First our guns
Then our freedom of speech
Then our liberties
Then our freedom
Then pilfer our 401-Ks
Jeffrey Clouser
3:40 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Hitler confiscated guns from the citizens and look what happened. When the 2nd amendment was drafted the Armies of the world had smoothbore muskets Like the citizens had. Ban "Assault" rifles and 30 round magazines ? Sounds like Germany in 1933 !
Walter Bruun
5:04 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
That is actually a false statement. The Weimar Republic that was the name of the German Government from 1919 to 1932 had very strict gun control due to the Treaty of Versailles - basically all german citizens were disarmed. In 1928 the laws regarding firearms were relaxed, citizens 20 and over were able to have rifles and handuns, but they were required to be registered. In 1938 (under Hitler) the laws were relaxed even further - the age of ownership was lowered so that citizens 18 & above could have guns, rifles & shotguns no longer needed to be registered and large blocks of people (Nazi party members & etc.) could have a handgun without registering it. Note tha I said "citizens" - in that same year (1938) German citizenship of Jews was revoked.
Ernie Knight
9:24 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Right Walter,
Hitler never took firearms from Jews, Poles, Gypsies, etc. who were being marched off to concentration camps. He did confiscate guns. He may not have been the first, but he did do it.
Martha Hanna
4:21 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
People are idiots and they need to be educated...the NRA or the US Government should run public service ads reminding people if they own guns and live with children or persons that are depressed they should make sure to lock them up and be safe with guns. People need to be educated!!! Remember the public service announcements about curfew? We need to start running ads reminding people to use guns safely, read to your kids, curfew reminders...and so on.
5:52 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Martha Most people that own weapons are trained and train the family in safety. Accidents happen. YOU want goverment to engage in a safety campaign about firearms. Most Liberals want a complete ban on firearms.
LOOK at goverment,today nancy pelosi stated she was in favor of the FIRST amendment about firearms. Yes granted it was a slip,but if a Rep.sliped like this it would be front page news.
4:43 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Let's pretend that I'm a mentally ill individual, intent on carrying out a mass killing. I'll probably end up taking my own life at the end, but first I want to take at least 27 people with me; I certainly don't want anyone shooting back and getting in my way. Lets see, I suppose the best place to do this would be in one of the follow locations, where I know that no one else is armed: "bars, airports, courthouses, casinos, stadiums, libraries, child care businesses, schools, colleges, jails and mental health facilities." I'm sure thankful to the IL government for making the people in these places such easy targets for me
Now let's stop pretending. Hopefully its clear that I don't want to this, but its also pretty clear, if history is any indication, that there is someone out there with a similar idea. We can continue to clearly label ideal target areas for them, or we can wise up and accept that, while a society completely and 100% free of weapons is the safest, that being impossible, the only alternative is to allow those who choose to do so to be completely free to safely carry a weapon to defend themselves and others.
5:26 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Illinois residents that have a FOID card should be able to carry anywhere they want.
6:04 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Well some say if a new law is not in place they will be able to carry. But truthfully haveing taken the firearms course and learnig some things I would say a training course is welcome. Having a FOID card is not the same as conceal carry. You jsut can't have people with no training carry. Hopefully some that slipped through the cracks on FOID cards will be caught with concael carry restirctions and everyone will be safer. Safety is all in traning. You can't get type training from a book or video. I am getting close to 60 and try to learn somthing new everyday
1:13 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
AS a FOID Card Holder, I agree training and testing to qualify is a must!
5:27 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
"Where do you stand"? All of the law abiding citizens stand for the same thing.....The Constitution! If you think the second amendment was written for hunting purposes you should probably read what the author of the amendment had to say. "Disarming the citizens is the quickest way to enslave them"--- George Mason
"The working end of a musket keeps the government honest"----Patrick Henry
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."---Declaration of Independence
They knew exactly what they were doing.
5:29 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
For all of those who are quoting the Consititution, why is there even a debate when it says the federal government doesn't have control over this issue? It's a state by state basis. What about that gas station attendant that works the overnight shift & has a gun under the counter, that the business owner trained & obtained that gun legally is their life less valuable than that gang member selling drugs on the corner who made that gun off the internet because they are band in their state? I think it should be regulated like a drivers license, take a test, apply, & even a dr sign off. But guess what.... NO MONEY! But everyone should be able to get one if they "qualify" & would like one. Period. One of the main reasons that we aren't generally attacked on our soil, is because they know people are armed. That's why when there is war, it's not fought over here. Want more 9/11, on US soil? No. I didn't think so. What this gun thing is doing is segregating the country even further. We all agree that crime is a major issue involving guns. & instability. Gang crime, hate crimes, so what if we targeted that & made less segregation? You think if more people were working & actually caring about other people, crime rate would just go down? Illinois is one of the worst with crime rates, because we have the 2nd highest unemployment rate. I don't think taking away guns will solve anything, especially the taxes for the government. Get with it people indivisible & justice for all.
8:04 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Because states CANNOT pass laws that violate the Constitution.
8:30 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Not exactly, it says anything that is not specified for congress (federal government) to handle, it's to be handled by the state (local government)
Walter Bruun
5:14 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
The US Congress regulates the states' Militias (US Constitution Article I, Section 8, clauses 14 - 16), that is what the "Well regulated Milita" refers to in the 2nd Amendment.
11:16 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Not disagreeing with you, but owning guns now a days & forming a milita in the 1800's, not the same thing, nor what anyone as refurring too. But they both act as a detourant. (:
Chronicles of Bob
6:14 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
CCW, another idiot... However, I am sure you are the same, just with another name...
Tyranical gov't... The jews... Hitler... safer with guns... All so laughable... No one is banning guns...
6:28 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
They are trying to ban some guns. I'd like to know a time where, when you give in an inch & they didn't want a foot? Eventually. Are you satisfied that you are accurately represented in your current government?
1:11 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Uh yes they are... if you understand firearms, you would see that some of the bills out there are very carefully written... "assault rifle" is a made up BS term the list of "features" they are providing would ban 80% of our weapons... including pump shot guns, and anything capable of using a magazine or ammunition feeding device. and any firearm capable of holding 7 rounds this include 1 in the chamber for anything that really can hold 6 rounds... WHY BAN ANYTHING? EVEN FULL AUTOMATIC WEAPONS ARE LEGAL (IF YOU HOLD A CLASS III)
6:33 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
No Bob I don't think they will be banning guns,not in the time I have left on this planet I hope. But reading pelosi's list of what she wants banned is alarming. An "assault weapon" ban last time changed nothing. It's a very emotianal issue on both sides.
Calm down Bob be part of a discussion,lets not call people names.
6:34 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
"In a puzzling, unexplained development, the Obama Administration has been buying and storing vast amounts of ammunition in recent months, with the Dept of Homeland Security just placing another order for an additional 21.6 million rounds.
Several other agencies of the Fed gov't also began buying large quantities of bullets last year. The Social Security Administration, for instance, not normally considered on the frontlines of anything but dealing with seniors, explained that its purchase of millions of rounds was for special agents' required quarterly weapons qualifications. They must be pretty poor shots.
DHS has been silent about its need for numerous orders of bullets in the multiple millions. Indeed, Examiner writer Ryan Keller points out Janet Napolitano's agency illegally redacted information from some ammunition solicitation forms following media inquiries.
According to one estimate, just since last spring DHS has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly.40 caliber and 9mm. That's sufficient firepower to shoot every American about 5 times. Including illegal immigrants.
To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, DHS is armed now for a 24 yr Iraq war..."
Just sayin.
Link to the rest of the Investors.com article: http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/020813-643707-obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases.htm#ixzz2KXpTpmH9
Brian H
8:00 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@Katt: I read the article you quoted and also read the Examiner article by Ryan Keller that it was based on. I even went as far to look at the RFQ on the fedbid.com site that Keller references and even links to. It appears that Mr. Keller can't do simple arithmetic as the RFQ merely solicits a bid for 240,000 rounds of ammunition. That or he was deliberately distorting the facts. I'm prone to believe the latter.
This is exactly how simply regurgitating information without first checking sources can set everyone off in a panic. But I guess that's what it's designed to do.
6:58 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
@ Naperville Mom Get your dahghter some legal pepper spray. Have her keep hornet spray in the housing area she will be in, it works just as good and shoots farther. You may want to have someone teach your daughter how to shot a great learning expereance. You get classroom before picking up a weapon to shot. Check out the NRA site with a open mind.
As far as the incendent in the bar the new law would not let guns in bars. Most states have laws that keep guns out of bars if they want to.
Jon Georgis
7:08 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I always hesitate to allow the government to create limitation or expansion to any statute. A perfect example of this is the public place exception to misses or battery. I would always rather the individual decide whether or not they want the situation to occur.
7:51 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Handgun control Inc, proposal from 1993
forums.1911forum.com › General › Legal & Political News
Tom Koz
8:49 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
I am prior military. 11Bravo Infantry. All I will say is that the Federal Goverent is not necessarily concerned about your Individual rights and / or freedoms. I will also state that I will NEVER give up my Right, nor allow the government to restrict my right to "keep and bear arms" for lawfull defensive purposes, and Niether Should YOU!
Homewood Jim
4:57 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
as a former 1st Cav soldier I feel the same. Isn't it strange - they trained us and made us carry a weapon - now here in Illnois we can't. Tax us like citizens and treat us like subjects.
9:05 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Law abiding citizens that have had a background check and extensive training should be allowed to carry a gun everywhere except where alcohol is served, where young children are always present, jails, courthouses and transportation hubs. Gun owners should have to reapply for a permit every four years.
Tom Koz
10:02 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
A "gun free" zone - will NOT stop anybody. The Only way to stop a bad guy is a good guy!
10:24 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Ask the guy who was accosted on Jan. 29th outside the chase bank 57&95 by two males wearing hoodies and a covered face..just after leaving the atm...shame the patch did not give an offender description better than two males....bet they had city addresses
Mr. Libertarian
10:34 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
Concealed carry will be more of a benefit than a detriment. By several orders of magnitude. Why shouldn't we be able to protect ourselves and our family in public?
Do "Gun Free Zone" signs really protect anyone? No, they don't. All they do is advertise that the people inside are, essentially, sitting ducks. Signs that may stop some madman from entering an establishment or school and slaughtering people and kids is one that says "Various Employees Conceal Carry. Attempt Felonious Actions At Your Own Risk"
Background checks are already performed when you get your FOID card. What would make more sense is to require the ability to demonstrate proficiency with your firearms, and possibly tactical training, in order to get your CCW.
10:39 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Mr. Libertarian For a CCW a saftey course is required as per IL HB0997 Please google IL. HB0997 and it will come up. It's a long read. This is the first draft I think.
Like I stated before I took a NRA safety course to get my FL. Carry permit and learned some new things. People will slip through the cracks in the FOID background checks and probably some will slip through on CCW.
Mr. Libertarian
12:17 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Thanks for the info! I will definitely read up on HB0997. I admit I haven't followed it as closely as I should; just lack of free time on my part.
A safety course is never a bad idea, and I'm happy to see the safety courses are a part of the license. As is the ability to place rounds on a target, which seems to be similar to what law enforcement must be capable of.
This is all I could find pertaining to police training, in the sort time I had to search for it. http://www.ptb.state.il.us/pdf/pa94103.pdf I'm guessing the 70% minimum passing score for police implies round placement, as well as timing.
The CCW license, as proposed, include a 70% on-target placement of rounds fired.
People will unfortunately always slip through the cracks.
Buford Pusser
11:36 pm on Sunday, February 10, 2013
If and when CCW is passed any business owner can deny guns in their establishment. Plus many will have a false sense of security with CCW.
1:06 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Fact, gun control does not work!
Fact Criminals do not follow laws.
Fact Firearms can be manufactured illegaly.
Fact Criminals will have firearms regardless of law.
Fact Law abiding citizen firearm ownersship will be restricted.
THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST FIRE ARMS IN SOCIETY, you have been PROGRAMMED TO FEAR them, you most likely have never held a firearm or have been properly taught about firearms. If your parents had taken the time to teach you the proper handling and safety of a firearm, and actually had you use a firearm. You would gain respect for them and not a fear. The fear, the THREAT is the criminal, the mentally ill person that wants to harm you, NOT the FIREARM.
Support our 2nd Amendment before it's too late... If your afraid of firearms don't own one, but don't take my right, and the rights of the PEOPLE away, that follow the laws... WE ARE NOT THE DANGER!
2:50 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Also ask the question "Are the very politicians who threaten our 2nd Amendment rights, who all to frequently have concealed weapons on their person OR have armed bodyguards, any more important nor should they have greater rights to self-protections than you and your family." I cannot believe any intelligent, sane person would agree they should have greater rights than the private citizen.
Mike Conroy
7:27 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Could not have stated it any better. Illinois pols need to get their mess they made cleaned up. Worry about having the worst state credit rating, that should be a priority. Draconian gun laws do not work, never have, never will.
1:18 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Back to the topic at hand, I AM FOR CONCEALED CARRY in PUBLIC PLACES!
2:42 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I believe it is the duty of every competent, law-abiding and TRAINED citizen to be able to protect themselves, their family, and those around them in public places as well as at home with a MODERN firearm, should insane or simply criminally violent individuals threaten. Concealed carry is but part of the 2nd Amendment. To argue otherwise is to declare utter ignorance of the antecedents leading up to the addition of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. And such a firearm should be state-of-the-art, NOT a muzzle-loading, black-powder or other antique weapon as apparently certain the politicians are trying to foist on an all too uninformed and gullible public.
Chronicles of Bob
8:17 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
What polititian wants you to carry and muzzle loading, gun powder gun? The same ones that fel that women have anti-rape muscles... Funny thing is, one of those statements are true...
10:08 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Does that include the escaped slaves that the militia were to round up? When u refer to modern weapon I assume it means any weapon that Ammoland can sell including M 4 CARBINES, GLOCK 22-23 like any local law enforcement has, I personally like any Ruger for shoulder or ankle and Glock for quick drawing but balk at carbines for Deer hunting or rounding up escaped slaves!
Rick Winninger
7:19 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Any non-believer in CC I would l like you stop by and talk with an open mind.
Rick Winninger
Firearms Safety Academy
1211-B Deer Street
Yorkville, IL 60560
10:46 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Rick I wish people would do things with a open mind but the MSM, IMHO is Anti Gun. Most won't look @ NRA website either. People can also go to Illinoiscarry.com for information. As I have stated before a lot of question can be answered if they look up IL. HB0997
7:23 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Obama has created this gun control frenzy as a smoke screen to the issues he has done nothing and will do nothing about like unemployment, taxes, corruption in our government, and the decline of our country as an economic and military superpower, replaced by China and India.
Maybe if these people in Chicago had jobs they wouldn't be robbing and killing.
David Kaiser
7:45 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
No background check system, no matter how comprehensive, will ever stop a single criminal or madman from from obtaining a gun, because legitimate gun purchase channels are not how criminals or madmen obtain guns. They get theirs on the black market. At best, background checks will make it less convenient for robbers, muggers, rapists, thugs, gang bangers, and the mentally unstable to get their hands on a gun. A concealed carry system, now in every state except Illinois, has several benefits. Foremost, the bad guys are no longer sure that their intended target is not armed and this acts as a deterrent in 49 states, but not in Illinois. Here, crooks know with almost absolute certainty that their target is defenseless. Another benefit of Concealed Carry is that it provides an avenue for police to provide training, as part of the CC licensing process, to a large pool of gun owners in proper handling, storage, and self-defense techniques. The more of this kind of education that is given, the safer gun owners and their families will be. Concealed carry has been found safe and effective in 49 states. It's time Illinois entered the modern age and trusted the people to exercise their Constitutional right to "keep and bear arms" as more than a mere abstract principle.
Chronicles of Bob
8:15 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Non of this is true... You idiots repeat a bunch of garbage, make up unsupported claims and throw the slaughter of jews around when it satifies your argument. No one is taking your guns. No amendment is protected from being altered and changed. This is about public saftey, not that the US and it's socialist, commie, marxist, Kenyan leader is going to come in and take over with tyranical rule.
I will admit you people are entertaining.
Tom Koz
7:50 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Why is it that you need a background check to own a firearm - but you don't need to pass one to run a country??
Chronicles of Bob
8:10 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
That's dumber than most of the crap you put on here...
Chronicles of Bob
8:11 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
What conversation? And I didn't call anyone a name.
10:52 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Bob you called CCW a idiot @ 6:14 on Feb 10 and agian called us idiots @ 8:15 this morning
TP Resident
8:22 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Its simple. Illinois is the only state that does not allow some sort of conceal and carry. Are 49 other states out of control like its the wild west? NO! Chicago is though! When the bad guy knows 10 other guns might be pointed back at him chances are he won't pull out his gun.
8:29 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Also as I've stated before, how much respect do most people have for each other. Why do kids join gangs? A lot of our issues with gun violence in Chicago is gang related. Lets get to the root of the problem and reduce the base causes of a lot of crime. Gang violence, I personally believe, is related to the lack of respect for each other, bullying, and a need to feel wanted and liked. Other crimes are based off of greed. Why do people steal and rob from others? GREED. These crimes will be committed no matter what if the opportunity presents itself and the criminal will pursue these crimes and use whatever means are at their disposal, even if they are not allowed to possess a firearm they will find one in some way.
Ernie Souchak
5:24 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Dave-you said you want to get to the root problem. That's exactly what the local politicians in Chicago DON"T want to do! The cause is not handguns, assault weapons, no CCW, too few police. Those are symptoms. The root cause is, long ago, the Democrats who ruled Chicago. Years ago the Dems instituted the ADC program, which is 'aid for dependent children'. Children from single-parent (read: mother) households were given ADC payments to support them, because their father wouldn't, and their mother couldn't/wouldn't. The payments were based on number of children: more kids, more money. And the Democrats KNEW that if these little babies reached voting age, they were DEMOCRATS. Well, when the welfare mothers figured this out, they knew that more babies meant more money and the Dems knew it meant more votes. Today, 72% of the black babies born in Chicago are born to un-married mothers. The kids get NO life skills, no home parenting, and no education in Chicago schools. With no skills, they are easily recruited into one of the gangs that run the drugs and prostitution in Chicago. And the Democrats pretend we have a gun control problem, to avoid looking at the ROOT CAUSE That's only a symptom of what happens when the illiterate masses have no skills and no job prospects - they join gangs, sell drugs, take drugs, and kill rival gang members. The problem evolved over 40 years and the politicians think that passing some gun laws will fix the problem.
bob busch
8:23 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Guns in school
I was at Bogan about a month when this happened. One afternoon during passing period I was watching the hall when I saw a boy slip a Beretta semi auto into his belt above the crack of his butt. The hall was full of kids so what to do?
What would you do?
TP Resident
8:30 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Teachers should be able to carry. Teachers in I believe Utah go to a class for conceal carry in school.
8:36 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Students under 18 should not be allowed the firearms, and what of these schools with security systems to prevent students from bringing weapons in like metal detectors? How do they get past them? I can think of ways to by-pass these security checkpoints but will NOT disclose them except to appropriate parties. Colleges if a student wishes to carry a firearm in a concealed fashion and they have passed the requirements (IL requires a FOID card and for CC the CC requirements). Heck students have drugs in their dorms and those are supposed to be drug free zones. A responsible CC owner would only be using their weapons in self defense, which a lot of people think it will be like the Wild West. When I get my CC it will be strictly used in self-defense. Let the police do the offensive role. But they will NOT be there in the instant an incident happens. Procedures should be put in place for those personnel who are staff for example on what the ROE are in that situation. Again it is a self-defense concept, not a search-and-destroy mission for the person.
9:16 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Transfer to Calumet or the one near Gately where they have Glocks and ankle holsters with a 380!
9:24 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
yer right Tired that's why I go to Trader Joe's or Meijers!.
8:25 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I am for conceal carry pretty much anywhere. Just secured areas that should be not allowed past a "checkpoint" such as the airport & a courthouse & mental hospitals should also not be allowed. Church I'd totally accept a CC because its CONCEALED and it should ONLY be used in self defense. Same with a theatre and other unsecured locations. How easy is it to get into a theatre through a backdoor if you work as a team, or even by yourself. As I've stated on my Facebook page, I have to think like a criminal in my profession to help keep the "bad guys" out.
About gun control issues, here is a good site that a friend of mine sent me on FB the other day since she knows I am for gun rights.
Buford Pusser
9:16 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
If and when CCW is passed , there should be a renewal once a year and one should get mandatory insurance for at least a million dollars!
10:03 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Well it will be a WHEN not an if cause it is already in process. Renewals I have no problem with, except it should be something like 2-3 years. For an EMT in the state of IL its a 4 year license with 120 hours of CE in there. National Registry its 2 years with 72 hours. I have no problem with mandatory training for CC, but there should be no insurance requirement. Insurance should be offered and recommended, but the right to bear arms is a right and not a privilege like driving a car is a privilege. I would recommend insurance for the cost of the legal fees and some for the accidental part, but not require it. USCCA offers this "insurance" for its members at different levels. Making the requirement for being a $1M amount is just satisfying the lawsuit happy people. This country would not be so lawsuit happy. Again back to my main point of RESPONSIBILITY. If gang members are already doing the CC without the laws in place and without insurance, why would a law abiding American citizen be required to possess the insurance to protect themselves from such unlawful people.
11:02 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Mandatory insurance laws work great in IL. don't they.
@ Dave In IL. when Ileagals and able to get drivers Licenses driving is no longer a privilege,it's a right. Many elected used the they have "the right to drive" in getting this passed. As I posted before I hated the driving/gun argument but as it will become a RIGHT in IL. in can be used now.
Frank Zeman
9:25 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
as soon as guns are banned from one kind of venue, that's where some idiot with a gun will go to cause havoc and make his/her inane statement.
guns s/b allowed everywhere - then an idiot will think twice...
and the penalties for misuse of a gun need to be stiff!
11:10 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Frank Penalties/laws for gun misuse are there,most times are pled down. Jails are full and we have no place to put people that break laws. It's a sad situation.
Go check out the second city website it's a interesting blog from Cops on the street.
Buford Pusser
9:34 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Don't forget people business owners can ban guns in their establishments.
3:40 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I see you've posted this a couple of times. I can't tell if you think it's a good thing or a bad thing.
9:38 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I am all for conceal carry by informed and TRAINED people. I have been to the range on multiple different occasions where I did fear for peoples safety. I understand that when someone first starts out they need some practice before becoming a proficient shot. I do agree with the current bill and its Florida style proficiency requirement. In a stress situation the very lax requirements for proficiency are not enough. If you wish to carry, it is your duty as an informed American citizen to do so, please practice and realize what you are agreeing to. Most people who carry on a daily basis have no need to ever draw their weapon let alone fire it. This includes some police officers. People need to realize that just because you can pull the trigger doesn't mean you should. I t is always a last line of defense. you need to realize that should you ever pull your weapon and use it you can and will be charged with some type of a murder or homicide charge. There will be a police investigation, there will be a trial. most people fear that because people will be carrying legal firearms that the system will fall in to complete anarchy, however responsible gun owners know that it will be just another day. Seriously people think about how many around you may already be carrying even though it is against the law?
10:07 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I am for training also and would encourage it. Safety and training. Heck even with Airsoft guns which are legal to possess but not carry unless in a gun bag, etc, safety is a major concern when on the field. A lot are common sense rules. Being taught to properly respect the firearm (talking about real guns now), and the dangers of it, when to use it, how to use it, how to handle a situation when involving a police officer encounter to show you are not the threat in a situation that it was required. Remember the idea is CC for self-defense, not for playing hero (except when it was a self-defense action).
9:38 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I know some people who do it for self defense "just in case" that have never drawn their weapon and why, because they know they will be tried and they must do everything in their power to exhaust all means before taking another human beings life. Can you live with the scene playing over and over again in your head after you take the shot? Can you live with the lawsuits that will come from the "victims" (yes I said victim you were the original target, it doesn't mean they didn't become the victim in the end) family? Most people hear conceal carry and they see the stereotypical John Wayne movies. CC is a huge responsibility, yes we have the right to do, but it is up to each individual to decide if they have the ability to handle. When it all boils down, it is up to each gun owner, responsible or otherwise, to decide if they will arm themselves, or continue to allow others the privilege of defending them.
*I now step down off of my soap box*
9:53 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
If you are against the private ownership of firearms, then you should post a sign in the front window of your home declaring it a " gun free zone". Then you can let everyone know that your home does not have a gun . Great idea! Some people want to revisit the 2nd Amendment since they do not think it applies in this era. Fair enough. But I also suggest we revisit all of the amendments for the same reason. Why should Hollywood make movies and video games that desensitize out youth with violence and sex ? So lets look at the 1st Amendment. And,you want to be more like Europe? The lets look at the 5th Amendment. Most Europeans ( and all of Asia and the Middle East) people do not have the right to remain silent when accused of a crime. They must testify in court. That would go along way in curbing crime, don't you think?
9:57 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Slowly but surely the Dems with the Repubs help are chipping away at the Constitution-the 2nd amendment included. First it's a few gun laws ...STOP! Why is our govt doing this in the first place? To disarm us. Not good. If you're thinking conspiracy theory right now, ge your head out of the sand.
Mr. Libertarian
9:59 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Since everyone is all up in arms about violence that happens to involve guns, we should do something about violence in general instead of those incidents involving guns.
I propose we draft laws that make it illegal for someone to murder someone in cold blood. Self defense would be an exception to this. The details would have to be worked out, but this is the basic idea.
Oh wait . . . those laws exist . . . and people still don't follow them.
The problem is not guns. It's people, and external influences in their lives.
Sarcasm aside, we need to take a look at our society in general. The mental healthcare system was dismantled by Regan in the 80's. The "family unit" has degraded due to high divorce rates, among other reasons. Kids are put in day care so both parents can work, and it's *not always* to make ends meet.
We outsource jobs to cut costs, which sends our money to other countries. Then we wonder why there are no well paying jobs left for us.
We have trash TV like Honey Boo Boo and The Bachelorette that people eat up, instead of spending quality time with their families. Our news is the worst fear mongering biased trash in the world.
Let not forget the entitlement attitude of so many in this country.
But go after the guns. As if that's the root cause of the problem.
12:05 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
I agree 100% that its people not guns. We don't need, any "violation" of the Constitution.
I also agree that mental health should be tackled WAY MORE.
but if you want to talk about the protecting rights, we have the right to outsource jobs overseas, well the businesses do. It's all about making the most revenue. Even the government needs to make revenue. I look at it this way, everyone get taxes taken out of their paychecks, can't argue that people individually don't pay taxes. Businesses, get tax cuts.... like Americans. The tax cuts big businesses get, is the getting interest on your money at a bank. If you keep your money in the bank you'll get more, if you keep your business here & not send jobs overseas, well give you a tax break, but it's okay because all your employees will be paying taxes (along with everyone) & they will have jobs, & contributing to society. Sounds like a win/win to me.
& all about revenue, even the news. Americans are selfish, & if they want something so bad, nothing is going to stop them. I hear the entitlement for sure. It's pathetic, I'm sure this country was built on entitlement & not hard work....oh wait.
12:06 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
I don't understand why people who think that way think this country will become better, under that thinking. But back to the gun issue. Many people have great ideas, that it should be regulated more, background checks, & training classes, but if the government makes it mandatory, normally they have to pay for some of it, or raise taxes. State. But Illinois I believe just went to A, (might still be AA.) we are broke as a joke. There is NO MONEY. So this s defiantly an issue that needs to be tackled thinking outside the box, & we all know those Illinois politicians don't do that.
12:25 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
ALS I agree with you on this quote:
"I hear the entitlement for sure. It's pathetic, I'm sure this country was built on entitlement & not hard work....oh wait."
To quote Mark Levin the other night on XM radio. (Yes I did write this down cause it's so true) "Liberty is hard work!" We are not entitled to our freedoms, we need to maintain those freedoms instead of just giving them up to a government to regulate. What does that mean for us citizens. As I stated before, be responsible for yourselves and your actions. Don't blame someone else for your faults. Take the responsibility and resolve and fix the issue. All comes down to those dreaded R words every time. And another one which my economics teacher in high school put up on the board: TINSTAAFL (There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). We need to work for not only the money, but also in the sense of liberty and freedom, need to work for that. It isn't just granted to us. It is something we deserve, but need to prove we actually deserve it and can responsibly handle it.
Naperville Mom
12:30 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Hi Mr. Libertarian, I agree with you about the breakdown of family as being a factor in all this. However, we cannot mandate that people stay married or stay home to raise their children. That is the stuff of God and faith.
But something we can do is improve our mental health services. What is a mother to do with a mentally unstable child who becomes an adult and is still "mainstreamed." All the support offered by the school and child services falls away, and you have an Adam Lanza. I know from a friend how a mother can fear her own mentally-challenged child who is suddenly taller and stronger than she is, and is prone to outbursts. What are the options for these parents, and what is the cost of care for an indefinite number of years? And if they own a gun, shouldn't it be safeguarded somehow?
Mr. Libertarian
2:23 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Yes, we do have the right to trade with other countries. I only stated that as one possible component of complex issue.
Stringent background checks and training should definitely go into CCW licenses. Insurance should be an option, not required.
@ Naperville Mom
We certainly should not mandate people stay married. I know of several instances where divorce was a very good choice. Of course, I've also seen people treat their marriages as disposable; which is sad when there's kids involved.
I completely agree that the mental health system needs improvement, and a lot more funding and research. I don't know exactly what choices parents of mentally challenged kids have, but I do know it's not enough. One thing is for sure, guns that share a home with mentally challenged people should be safeguarded.
Also, kids that are labelled ADD/ADHD should not automatically be given medication. Techniques should be developed to teach/engage them first. Medication should be an absolute last resort, not the first attempt at a solution.
My main point is we need to figure out why people are snapping. I cited a few possible reasons. Perhaps some of them are petty, like the lousy TV shows. Perhaps not.
10:07 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I saw an interview yesterday between a army man and a news woman. They were talking about guns and the man was training boy scouts and he said were going to teach them how to shoot safely and smart. The woman said shoot?!? Arent you giving then the ability to become horrible murderers? The man said "you have the the ability and tools to become a prostitute...but you aren't, are you?" the woman stopped the interview there and she saw a new way to think of gun control. I think teaching law abiding citizens and their children at a young age to handle and shoot guns, CAREFULLY and SAFELY and of course have good aim, we will hav less violent crimes when we're allowed to vary guns becuase we will all know how to shoot and when a criminal is thinking about robbing you or hurting you or killing you, they will think twice cuase they know you have a gun too. They attack innocent law abiding citizens cuase they know they're obeying the law and have no gun on them but if we could carry then they woul think different.
Ray Hamilton
10:31 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
See this site for acutal federal government data on firearms plus. http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html
Some info I extracted.
Last Year Cause of Death Deaths Population
2010 All Injury 180811 308745538
2010 Firearm 364483 3530708217
2010 Firearm 31672 308745538 Base
2010 Suicide Firearm 19392 308745538 61.23%
2010 Unintentional Firearm 606 308745538 1.91%
2010 Homicide Firearm 11078 308745538 34.98%
2010 Legal Intervention 344 308745538 1.09%
2010 Overall Vehicle 35498 308745538
There is some survey data that indicates the percentage of times guns are used in self defense. It is about 1.44% annually. See this article http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck2.html
I believe non police concealed carry guns should not be allowed in buildingssituations where all entering are screened for weapons.
11:19 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
about your buildings/situations where screening is occurring is where I agree with places like the Airport at the checkpoint to the terminal and courthouses. Businesses on the other hand, let them make their own decision. If a business states it is a gun free zone, I'll just respect that and not goto that business and not support them. Government should keep its hands out of business affairs in this as its the business choice. Don't force them one way or another. It's private property at that point.
bob busch
10:35 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I was at Bogan about a month when this happened. One afternoon during passing period I was watching the hall when i saw a boy slip a Beretta semi auto into his belt above the crack of his butt. The hall was full of kids so what to do?
Well, I went up to him and said, "What is in your belt?" If he had so much as blinked his nuts would have visited his liver.
Thank god he said "A prop gun for the school play..." Sure enough out came a copy of a real pistol. it was a perfect working replica of a Beretta semi-auto.
I took him to security, and after telling the cop I proceeded to verbal unload on him. The fear did not kick in until later. But if it was real and he was bent on destruction that would have been it for a lot of people.
If a cop had observed what he did he might have been shot. God was I stupid.
That is the rest of a real situation that confronted me as a teacher.
I believe in the second amendment and in concealed carry laws.
But nobody seems to remember that along with the right to carry comes a responsibility to act in a rational mature way.If i was armed that day I might have
acted out of fear and shot the kid.I hope along with weapons training everyone
granted a permit to carry has to pass a psychological test to determine if they have the mental capacity ,and judgement, to be armed.
The day that happened i was the only adult around.Every school needs armed guards,but they must not be adults in name only.
11:09 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
As the withdrawal of Afghanistan begins, the CPS should start interviewing BLACKWATER and other mercenaries who will be out of work for study hall monitors and guards in the Killing field schools they could moonlight as negotiators with the local gangsters a job they are overqualified for but some of them may be patriots!
Minister Gayl Caul
10:45 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
There are too many hot heads and I see at least one here. Some people don't know how to argue. We've got idiots like George Zimmerman who chase down people like Trayvon because they don't think they belong in the neighborhood--gang members do the same thing. Too many drunks, drug abusers, too many people who beat their spouses now. Lets throw concealed carry in and if you think Chicago has an incredible murder rate now--what do you think will happen state wide? No, thank you!
11:23 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
I see You know George Zimmerman personally so you can call him a idiot. Why not let the case go through the court system and see what happens. I hope your not a Minister that councels people on their behavior. You IMHO have convicted someone before a trial.
9:44 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I do a lot of traveling in Indiana and Michigan to Florida. I know a lot of you people do too. Look around at the people in those states you are probably the only one not carrying a firearm and your safer there than you are here. Firearms are all over the United States. No one has spoken that if people would keep their hands off other people things like this wouldn't happen. I was always taught if you commit a crime you bad things could happen to you. The city of Chicago has a problem with people thinking they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Beating people robbing store mob actions no one is stopping that the jails are full. They let them out and it starts again we are the laughing stock and the butt of all jokes because of this. What happens when the monies stop coming to Chicago because of the lawless acts of these people and its coming. The only ones getting rich off this are the LAWYERS. We are the victims every time this happens even if it isn't you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mac Miller
11:42 am on Monday, February 11, 2013
Naperville Mom---" I have a daughter going to college in Chicago in the fall so safety is on my mind." Perhaps sending your daughter to college in the most violent city isn't such a good idea if safety is on your mind. I have seen many comments regarding gun laws and such but not much in the way of what we should do to those responsible for such heinous crimes. Maybe we should shoot off the knee caps of anyone who kills or hurts someone with a gun. Maybe we should not spend time suspending and arresting children who are playing make believe in school and focus that energy on locking away the murders and trouble makers of this world. We are supposed to be a civilized nation but clearly that isn't working. Our society has no qualms about taking someone's life for some minor indiscretion. It is disgusting that we are not an eye for an eye society. Make killing and violence less appealing by implementing the harshest sentences! Start realizing that it is the INDIVIDUAL who is perpetrating these crimes and not the tools. As for the guns, make the guns activate only to the person it is registered to. Think 007 Skyfall when the gun used by Bond was only able to be used by him. It was completely useless to anyone other than Bond. I think that is a no brainer. I know, as a gun owner, that I would be willing to pay more for that awesome safety feature. Adam could not have been able to use those guns registered to his mother. Food for thought.
Naperville Mom
12:10 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Hi Mac Miller. We disagree on a lot, however, we agree on one really important thing that could make a big difference for everyone involved. You said: As for the guns, make the guns activate only to the person it is registered to. Think 007 Skyfall...I know, as a gun owner, that I would be willing to pay more for that awesome safety feature. Adam could not have been able to use those guns registered to his mother. Food for thought."
Yes, I was actually chewing on that last night. Thought about Skyfall, and the fingerprint feature at the grocery store checkout (instead of a PIN)...why can't a gun have a fingerprint lock? It probably can. But gun owners must create a demand for it. How to create a demand for a feature many won't be willing to pay more? Tie safety to the cost of gun insurance. If you have a fingerprint lock, your insurance is a lot less.
I also thought about how lethal a gun is. The last thing I want for my daughter is for her to shoot someone and live with that. What if gun manufacturers put more effort and technology into defensive weapons that don't kill, but stun or blind or tranqulize. If a tranquilizer gun can temporarily put down a tiger, I would think we could come up with something for an angry human.
Then you could have your eye for an eye. As things stand now, the crazies always shoot themselves first. What if we could just knock them out and have them suffer the consequences?
12:18 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Problems with the gun to be used that type safety issue is how do you teach someone else how to shot. costs in selling firearm. Any system can be buy passed. Gun Mfrs. are working on systems like this but they have many costs drawbacks to them
adams mother taught him how to shot with those firearms aslo so he would have been cleared to shot them anyway if they had this type of safety issue on them.
Ernie Knight
9:04 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Fingerprint or other personalized locks are a problem, even if it could ever work without reliability issues. No one else in the family can use it to defend against a violent attack. No other authorized lawful user could use it.
12:05 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ Mac, capping is a option for killers in the killing fields or murderers in public places make it less appealing how about or castration maybe give em a choice nah just do it!
Cheney a civilized leader of the NEO CON looter party and draft dodger shoots his buddies in the face who don't pony up enough money in the pot! The prisons are being privatized because when the aroused public gets wise they will all be banished they believe they could end up in some dungeon they are covering their backsides to make them country clubs! Get a petition on it I'm in, I also have relatives going through the no mans land to law and Med schools..
Mac Miller
12:32 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Naperville mom---Stun guns are illegal in IL. I totally agree that we should be able to carry these. I would much prefer to carry a stun gun or tranquilizer gun than a real gun. However, we live in a state that seems hell bent on leaving us law abiding citizens unarmed in every fashion. What would be wrong with stun guns or the like? It would give someone the ability to neutralize a perp until police get there to apprehend him/her. Perhaps in order to lessen the cost to add the finger print feature, we can get a credit of some sort for being more responsible. Maybe a break on insurance premiums. They do this type of stuff all the time for other things like not smoking/drinking, having a certain type of car, etc. Reward good behavior. I know this is a new concept for this country, as of late. We typically reward bad and slothful behavior so it may take some convincing but I think in the long haul it would work with tweaking.
12:52 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Mac Yes stun guns are illegal. the problem with them is most are bigger and more bulky than a handgun. Then you have to be a better shot with them than a handgun. darts must go in and through cloths. For personal safety i would recomend a hand held tazer also not allowed in IL. I think. IMHO I think a lot of people would like a hand held tazer for safety if they new more about them. I have one kept in another state that allows them when I go there.
12:38 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ naperville Mom Did you see my comment to you for safety ideas for your daughter. have her get some peper spray,also hornet spray shots farther so should be kept in houseing enviroment. I have taught a few women to shot,some scared at first. Everyone of them loved it and went back to shot & learn more.
I wish more states would offer training and use of tasers,the new law in IL does not. It still outlaws tazers in IL. I think a tazer law and safety course should be looked at.
Naperville Mom
1:37 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Hi Skully, yes thank you for the hornet spray idea--cheap, legal, effective but not lethal, and I don't even have to conceal it! I've got hornet spray and I'm not afraid to use it! I used some last summer on wasps and it blasted a powerful stream as high as the garage roof. I also thought a fire estinguisher might be a good idea. Keep it under the bed--apparently more people die each year from a blunt object than a gun (I've heard), so my chances are probably better.
I checked Amazon for tasers. Some of them look just like guns; others like cell phones and flashlights. 7.8 million volts, ouch. It CANNOT however, be shipped to my Illinois address. Now THAT is something we can all agree on needs to be changed, right? Can we start there?
My sister in Virginia and my other sister in California can both have tasers that look like cell phones and pepper spray that looks like lipstick, tomorrow wtih free super-saver shipping. I'll be the one with the hornet spray til further notice.
Likes the Facts
12:55 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Illinois politicians need to clean up their mess they made. I agree with MIke.
1:31 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
you should have to inform law enforcement that you have a firearm . what the should not restrict we can carry it except for bars. simply because firearms and Alcohol don't mix. and you shouldn't carrier firm to the bar either that's just as bad to leave it alone in the vehicle and that's what's going to happen if they serve putting all the stipulations on it.
3:32 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
You will find info if you google the proposed bill google IL. HB0997 This is what's proposed. Some states allow carry in bars,you are not allowed to drink alcohol when you carry. Hope this helps with your questions
1:38 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
It could happen here folks !!!!
This year will go down in history for the first time a civilized nation has a full gun registration. Our streets will be safer,our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future !
SAID by "ADOLPH HITLER,1935, ON WEAPONS ACT OF NAZZI GERMANY"
Gene Adams
2:12 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
OOOhhh, I know. You know what works really well? Wars on things. The War on Drugs is a great success. So is the War on Terror. So clearly, we need a War on Guns.
2:57 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ Jay & Gene A u have it wrong all of the wars registration and diversionary tactics by the TPARTY- Charlatan Christian right the Gun bearers for AMMOLAND have gone alll in for the CHENEY'S think tank AEI and the Zionist Lobby and lobbyists, they are the creators of the Wars for Drugs-Terror- Guns for the Banksters-AIPAC.They also are the reason the SUPREME CT CHF JUSTICE made OBAMA CARE happen it is not TAX or benefit of health care, it is part of the old KOREAN WAR Manchurian Candidate MK ULTRA mind control through the PHARMA'S, and the bonus gift to the insurance lobby.
The few Americans who know only because they DO NOT drink the KOOL AID, include the Judaic -Hebrews here and Israel who do not pay homage to the ZIONIST banksters and the Goy who are not circumcized nor listen to charlatan bible thumpers few it seems are on these threads.
3:01 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ SKULLY and MAC is Adams mom Ishtar or the whore of Babylon or?
4:46 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Why are the majority of women who are heavily tattooed over weight?
Paul S
3:45 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Here's the problem: Anyone who references God in any debate regarding guns and the ability to carry them is a nut. The next generation of American people, the majority of which as was proven by the last election are more liberal minded than future gens. We want this planet to have less guns, not more. So call it idealistic and rooted in liberalism, but it's a better goal for mankind than strapping up every Tom, Dick and Harriet with a piece. And being a pro-gun Christian is an example of perfect irony. And comparing the US to Nazi Germany or Cuba is totally insane and frankly offensive to people actually living under fascist or socialist rule.
Naperville Mom
4:36 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Hi Paul S--Well I did something nutty (you said referencing God is a gun debate is nuts).. I just searched for "guns" on OpenBible just to see what would come up. I was expecting no results. Here are the first few results:
Matthew 26:52-54 ESV Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled?"
Exodus 22:2-3 ESV If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
Matthew 5:1-48 ESV "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. ...
Romans 12:19 ESV Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
I thought this one might come up: Exodus 20:13 ESV You shall not murder.
11:37 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
You make the usual liberal arguement: anyone who does not agree with you is a nut! You had better hope this country never experiences a real coast to coast national emergency. When the storm hit New Orleans the police rounded up all private owned firearms and the unarmed common person suffered not only from the bandits but from the police and other government officials. I am sure the victims were praying for God to send someone to help them and wishing they were armed so they could help themselves.
4:02 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
With all due respect, Paul, your arguments are naive. Please read some history and understand how free states become tyrannies--it happens all the time. Naomi Wolf wrote a great book detailing this several years ago--"The End of America". Great read.
Wanting "the planet to have less guns" and having a realistic plan to achieve that are two very different things. Many people much smarter than you or I have written many great tomes on how to best achieve peace for all people. None suggest disarming everyone, for the simple reason that they live (or were living) in reality and trying to come up with actual solutions. Thinking persons recognize human nature and likely outcomes of actions rather than rushing in to ill-thought out feel good plans.
4:18 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
This isn't an issue of left or right.Some Dems own and some Reps don't. What they need to do is enforce what's already on the books which IL is failing miserably at. If we can't rely on those who enforce, what good is more rhetoric, cuz that's really all it would be. And we need not to give these shooters any more than 10 minutes of our collective time. I can't allow the one event of a young person from a better neighborhood to be any more important than the 5 year old playing in the front yard of a house in a crummy neighborhood. Both are so sad. One can afford a bounty, the other couldn't even entertain the thought. It's a sad day when the only way of catching the perptrator is for it to be bought.
Tired of the B.S.
4:23 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
This whole conversation-argument is extremely entertaining. It is the same conversation-argument that happens anytime the Patch has an article about guns.
I will only add one thing:
How many people do you think conceal/carry right now? Without some license from the state that "allows" them to? Not the criminals, we all know that laws mean nothing to them, I am talking about the "law-abiding" citizens that carry. I think that many of you would be surprised to find out that the guy behind you in line at the Jewel is armed.
5:01 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Yes I think people would be suprised how many Law abiding cirizens carry now. I do know a few. I used to years ago,many Cops new it and didn't care. It was not around here.
In talking to people that grew up around west Kendall county they say it was no big deal to see hunting rifels in racks (pickups) at high school during hunting season. Times do change
5:02 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
I have to agree with you. Many people are out there carrying illegally. The problem is that it is only illegal in Illinois and they would be innocent anywhere else.
I'm pretty much tired of these posts. This one and recent similar ones have been running for a long time and dominated by half a dozen people who have a lot of free time on their hands to come up with some pretty absurd arguments.
I'm moving on.
9:06 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Skully, I grew up in New York (the state, NOT the city) and my shotgun was almost always in the back window of my unlocked truck in the school parking lot, along with a lot of other rifles in other vehicles... Yes, times have changed and not really for the better...
Paul S
5:04 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Naperville Mom you forgot the one about turning the other cheek. Jesus was a pacifist against committing acts of violence.
7:21 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ Cheryl Thinning the herd eh, does that mean u won't be in Vera's anti abortion vigils? Concerned has to move on he-she is exhausted after he she reads words that are not in his five -six word unimaginative expletives!
5:19 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
The above article that I linked in gives an interesting opinion on gun control/concealed carry with facts attached. It is long but worth the read.
Chronicles of Bob
5:22 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Nick... youre grampa why i carry a gun post is beyond stupid... "god gave you the right to carry a gun" really? Thats just stupid.... police dont protect you? Really?, thats even dumber!!!
Ernie Knight
9:38 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
You're saying that its stupid to believe that the police won't protect you? The Newtown victims were well-protected by the police were they? Anyone that believes that the police can protect everyone is delusional.
11:42 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I agree. The courts have long ago stated that you do not have any legal recourse when the police fail to protect you or your family. They try, but cannot be everywhere and some commnuities ( Iam sure you can name them) have poor and corrupt police departments. The police are only minutes away when seconds count. Iwish there was a better way for a family to protect itself, but now that the horse is out of the bar so to speak, I really do not know what that would be.
5:32 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
TO:bobloblaw, there have been more people killed in car accidents than by guns. So, do we ban cars? More people killed by smoking, hell more people killed by second hand smoke. So, all you gun banning idiots, go move to another country that has no guns, we will see how long it takes until you are a victim of a crime!
Chronicles of Bob
5:40 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
When did i say to ban guns. Your example of cars is stupid. The purpose of a car is for transportation. Yes accidents happen. And when they do, things change. The sole purpose of a gun is to kill.
5:53 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Bob The sole purpose of a gun is to kill self protection,hunting and used in war times Now there are shooting events,collecting as well millions are spent and made
Cars are made for transportation Now there is racing,collecting as well millions are spent
I don't like the car/gun stuff but as you can see things change
4:44 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
hey Chronicles of babs, get out off the library computers. Stop believing what bloomberg writes. The truth is out there!
Chronicles of Bob
6:09 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Ok... correction. A gun is designed to to kill as effectively as possible. Same point still stands. The car argument is ridiculous. And ive never advocated for the banning of anything.
Ernie Knight
9:42 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Wrong again. Firearms are generally designed to injure and/or stop a threat. They are not designed to kill. The military, in fact, chooses firearms which will leave injured enemy on the battlefield, so that it requires resources to care for them. Of course that does not include the firearms that were designed PURELY for target shooting/sport.
6:31 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
You un-armed anti gun advocates should do this one hourtest, to prove your point to us pro gun nutsTake a leasure stroll thru the south side or west side of Chicago any hour of the day you choose. No sane weapon free person would !!!!
7:29 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
And why would a TPARTY law abiding vigilante want to venture into the Killing fields? Bet u leave yer flaming cross and White robes and masks at home sweet home! I do that at least twice a week going from !30th to the Loop and then to the near West side still here but then again i am not going there to purchase CONTRABAND or do anything illegal how bout u? And I leave the heavy Arty and mortars in the trunk, not a good idea to have them in plain sight right?
Chronicles of Bob
11:06 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
I work on the west side every day... stop with ylur stupidity.
9:56 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
All you liberal "NO GUN" sign toters, how about putting your address up here for everyone to see you don't believe in guns...let the criminals know they're entering a gun-free home that they're in complete control of....and please don't be a hypocrite and call the police to come save your dumb ass...they carry guns, instead try to talk to the crooks over a nice hot cup of tea. Best wishes.
Cheryl Walker
6:39 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Quit whining about gun deaths already. We have overpopulation problems. Let natural selection take it's course.
Dan Cox
7:53 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Conceal Carry is allowed in all 50 States, including Illinois!!! The Ban was found Unconstitutional and struck down Dec, 2012. There is no law against carrying anywhere you want RIGHT NOW! It is called Constitutional Carry, the Illinois Legislature has not been able to get a CCW Bill Passed yet and the idea of a "stay" by the 7th Districy Federal Court is non-sense, Unconstitutional Law is an unenforcible law.
10:21 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Illinois has no state preemption of local laws, which mean individual counties may exempt themselves completely from state restrictions. Several county district attorneys have stated that they will no longer enforce state concealed carry restrictions. This effectively means that these counties have constitutional carry. Extreme caution is urged however as gun attitudes vary wildly by county, from pro-gun attitudes in rural counties to extremely anti-gun attitudes in urban counties such as Cook County (Chicago). Anyone considering concealed carry in Illinois is urged to determine the specific laws in the county in which they plan to carry.
8:18 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Wise up to the facts here they are in BLACK & WHITE!!!!
This is the the real truth causing the problems, BROTHA
Mac Miller
8:57 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Amanda and the Patch appear to be a joke considering that BUTCH has yet to be banned for his constant dribble and ignorance! Why don't we try to find a better web site that would encourage intelligent and coherent conversation and exchange of ideas?
9:45 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@Jay what is wrong with the internet is the cartoons are as goofy as your posts and utube contribution, have u figured out how to leave home yet without the cross setting your car on fire?
10:06 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Don't blame Amanda she's doing a good job.
She cannot psychoanalyze and weed out all the psychotic
*&&^%^%$#@ fools that post here.
Amanda Luevano
10:19 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Mac, FYI this article is posted across 30+ suburban Chicago sites. Butch is not a commenter from Downers Grove (most of them aren't, actually) so I don't have much jurisdiction unless he violates our terms of use. We put articles out there hoping for intelligent conversation, but this is the Internet and we can't control everything that's posted.
Brad Drake
10:42 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Butch and Mac...you may not share the same views and that's what keeps America interesting. Nobody should be banned for what they write unless they are using profanity, etc. And two things you both should be able to agree on is that Amanda does a good job and she's also very pretty!
9:18 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
@ mac U are taking yer ball and goin home? Shocking and what would u call intelligent? Knee capping or shooting a buddy in the face?
You said," capping was a civilized thing to do", and i replied" castration is a better option"! I thought all righteous god fearing Christians and wannabe Jews would jump at it I said get a petition I'm on board and now u want to leave me! HAVE U EVER read a serious comic Book u know Prince Valiant or ? Change yer reading cable watching and listening habits and u will not be so overwhelmed by yesterdays news and events!
9:47 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
You can take the guns away from the real owners but the thieves will never give them up. look how many people are killed by drunk drivers , have they stoped manufacturing alcohol? In the middle east they still stone some of their people have they taken away the stones? look how many people are killed with knives , have they taken them away? Also take a real big look at drugs there are more people killed using drugs and protecting drug king pins that makes the number of murders here in the United States Of America look like nothing. All U.S. citizens of sound mind should be able to conceal carry at all times. ere in Chicago almost every month there are more people killed than was killed in that school up east. and here in Chicago they complain about it but there appears to be a code of silence because of the gangs. If these gangs had enough people to fire back at them maybe things might change.
10:42 pm on Monday, February 11, 2013
Frank that seems to be the problem they are shooting back most of the time but it sometimes takes a while and the innocents get in the way, but if you had yer way there are no innocents everyone is shooting now this is Mac's kind of debate. The key words are ?? let's take a poll? Ah shucks protecting Kingpins like BUSH 41 taking out the PANAMANIAN DRUGSTER NORIEGA protected by the Colombians and MEXICANS alike see how great that ended up?
5:41 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Just because you went to an all girls school shouldn't mean you can't still play hockey.
Left Wing Conservative
1:34 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
No matter what is decided or enacted, the fact still remains that some nubag will undoubtedly commit another brutal shooting within the year. Whether its in a shopping mall, movie theatre, sports arena, grocery store, library, etc its simply going to happen somewhere. If you're that afraid of this fact then ya might as well never leave your house. So Stay inside and hide and continue to listen to your pundits and cavetch all you want on the Internet. Good grief.
1:36 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Criminals do not obey laws! Illinois has never allowed it's citizens to carry for protection so we have armed criminals and unarmed victims. The criminals will always find ways to get their hands on guns despite any laws, it's the lawful citizens falling at the merciless hand of a criminal. As long as they're are criminals with guns the playing field needs to be a little more fair allowing us law abiding citizens to protect ourselves. Drugs have been illegal for some time....how's that going....making something illegal does not stop someone with no regard for the law.
Criminals that know their intended victims are unarmed are...well you get the idea.
C'mon folks, wake up!
6:46 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Fewer guns means fewer shootings, legal or not. FEWER, not none! Why are you gun whiners so bad at math?
Ernie Knight
8:38 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Funny. According to your logic we'd be safer disarming the police and military.
9:41 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Illinois has the strictest gun laws and the highest violent gun related crimes.
8:01 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@concerned, back in the day I was on the the first JUNIOR A team (and only) on da sou side (Burbs), this was old time hockey, not a tooth in front on the first two lines or defense but unlike u and yer hubby MAC we all could read, write and comprehend the playbook which u and yer husband Mac have so no ability to comprehend I thought u love birds took your pucks and went home!
9:43 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
When you get to the middle, what direction are you facing?
8:19 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I do a lot of traveling in Indiana and Michigan to Florida. I know a lot of you people do too. Look around at the people in those states you are probably the only one not carrying a firearm and your safer there than you are here.
8:46 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Good point to remember before you flip another motorist the bird.
2:39 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@ concerned what's the middle? Like everything else u goofed that up, does your half wit mind mean Center?
William Beagle
8:45 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
No place should be gun free as that is just an invitation for anyone with evil desires to go there to do their deeds! Especially Churches.
9:47 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I do a lot of traveling in Indiana and Michigan to Florida. I know a lot of you people do too. Look around at the people in those states you are probably the only one not carrying a firearm and your safer there than you are here. Firearms are all over the United States. No one has spoken that if people would keep their hands off other people things like this wouldn't happen. I was always taught if you commit a crime you bad things could happen to you. The city of Chicago has a problem with people thinking they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Beating people robbing store mob actions no one is stopping that the jails are full. They let them out and it starts again we are the laughing stock and the butt of all jokes because of this. What happens when the monies stop coming to Chicago because of the lawless acts of these people and its coming. The only ones getting rich off this are the LAWYERS. We are the victims every time this happens even if it isn't you!!!!!!!!!!!!
3:56 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@ pssst50
go down to the alley going west out of W Palm Beach next time where the prisoners and illegals are in the fields not swamps, it is there they privatized the prisons like Az,to local TPARTY magistrates, Wardens and Governors and other petty officials.These scum OUTSOURCE anyone in their jurisdiction for $$ pay them 50 cents hr to ranchers, farmers and other campaign contributors, the FED'S in the past got into the act by experimenting on them like they were POW in KOREA (MANCHURIAN CANDIDATES) called MK ultra in the day before the Pentagon papers blew the whistle on it, I bet AZ TPARTY prisons still do! IT is just called mind control now! So much to learn so little time aren't u a bit pssed u wasted it all?
Mac Miller
9:47 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Clearly, this topic will always be hot. Discussing the intricacies of keeping people safe while allowing people the right to defend themselves is very important and should not be taken lightly. Most of us on this blog are clearly interested in finding a common ground that will work for the majority of citizens. We live in a very uncivilized world these days and that should be taken into account when attempting to provide resolutions. We will never be able to become a kind and safer nation when we glorify violence with billions of dollars via movies and video games. Our priorities are insanely screwed up and we only have ourselves to blame. We need to find entertainment that doesn't involve murder and bloodshed. We have reality TV on pretty much every channel. Most of the time the participants are not at all worthy of our time or attention, nor are these shows even REAL most of the time. We hear time and time again that they are staged and that the meaner a character is, the better the ratings. What does this say about our society? Why do we gravitate towards these types of individuals? Who would want to portray that type of person? It certainly makes we wonder what TV will be like in 10-20 years. I would like to think we can't go much lower but I am not so convinced. SIGH.....No easy answers and no real viable options. What a quandary we find ourselves in.
11:09 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Sorry, we can't blame all that's wrong on hollywood and video games! We have crooks running the government. We have broken families, single parents having to work 2 jobs just to feed their kids, the poor (Too poor to send their kids to the movies or buy them video games). Many of these poor kids choose crime for fast money, something they never had growing up. It's easy to point a finger at a fraction of the populace and say this is why everything is wrong (very liberal thinking), a little bit of fantasyland.
10:05 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
All you liberal "No Gun" sign toters, how about putting your address up here for everyone to see that you don't believe in guns....let the criminals know they're entering a gun-free home that they're in complete control of....and please don't be a hypocrite and call the police to come save your dumb ass....they carry guns, instead try to talk to the crooks over a nice cup of hot tea. Best Wishes!
2:41 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@ Kari I got a M2 90MM if that counts!
I'll show u mine if u show me yers?
Lived in 5 other metro areas...
10:09 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Hey, everyone. I'm glad there is talk. I'd like to see conflict resolution at the earliest of ages. Kids instinctively retaliate around age 2. Opportunity is knocking. At around age 3, revenge can enter - instinctively. At these ages, they trust what they hear and see. After this age, they must choose to change. In an ideal world, there would be a caregiver/parent/nanny to intervene at these young ages, but this rare today. By ages 6 to 7, the desire to protect self can translate into introversion or bullying. You can project from here...
10:15 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Yes...in an ideal world...never has been and never will be. Too many variables!
11:27 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
We already have laws against murder....we dont need laws against inanimate objects...Man has been killing man long before gunpowder was invented....There are no firearms in prisons yet the inmates kill each other all the time....Gacy killed 33 kids without a firearm......you cannot control insane people.......Guns protect more people than they kill.......
Mac Miller
11:37 am on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Kari, I completely agree with you. The breakdown of family values is tragic. The constant RE-ELECTION of the criminals running our government is mind numbing. How in God's name do people live Mike Madigan, Daley, Emanuel, Dillard, and the like keep getting re elected? Why are people so enthralled with an entrenched politician? I am fairly positive that if you take the lobbyists and corporations out of the contribution ring, this incestous relationship would cease to exist. The politicians should be controlled by the PEOPLE they are supposed to represent. Right now, we the people have no one looking out for our interests. It is such a me me me me society and people are so quick to resort to aggressive and retaliatory behavior. Our problem solving skills are sorely lacking. Speaking of single parents working to feed their kids, we certainly should address this. How many people do you know that have kids and clearly can't afford to care for them? I personally know quite a few. They are loving people but are not able to financially care for themselves let alone one, two or three kids. It is hard for me to feel their pain when they chose to have kids knowing full well they couldn't afford to provide a comfortable life with, at least, food. On that note, maybe if we weren't taxed to death and burdened at every level, we could afford to spend more time with our families. You will see a lot more two and three job households with obamacare, etc. IMHO
Mac Miller
12:00 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Thank you for your response. I have emailed you about BUTCH in the past. He has called people names and been very antagonistic. I am certainly not trying to censor him. If he wasn't always rambling on about TPARTY, colombian drug king pins, thor, babylon, hockey pucks, killing fields, and the list could go on, I wouldn't have said anything. The fact remains that he hardly offers any real solutions. I have only really witnessed him making fun of other peoples ideas, calling people idiots and morons and things like that. I find it interesting that you know he is not from DG. How would you know that considering he uses an alias like the majority of your commentators?
Bob Laird
2:30 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
not to play devils advocate or anything, but as kookoo as the guy is, I believe it's another poster that was calling everybody "idiot". A couple us commented about it. I may be wrong, because I skip over his/her posts most of the time.
Amanda Luevano
12:14 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
If you click on a commenter's name, it shows their profile on a specific site. Yours shows up on Downers Grove. Others do not.
3:31 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@Bob Laird, if u mean me and u skip over my posts how are u going to catch up on the times wasted under the ice?
chris denny
12:41 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Gansters will always have a gun so y can't I
have one on me if one of them try to rob me or harm me I should b able to defend my self bet it will make them think twice if they know o this person might have a gun too
3:19 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@ Chris, IS THIS A PLAN?
all we need to do is make it a long time in hard time for ANY CRIME with a gun and more with a WMD like street sweeper, Kash,M- 4 carbine,AR 15 etc..
Then we finish up with BANKSTERS and Corp laundering money or trafficking in Guns such as what the GOP before they were the TPARTY did in the basement at 1600 ( white house) when we had a GOP POTUS with Alzheimer's for those who never read anything but the comics and or slow on the trigger or with a damaged amyglia,i feel yer pain!
Brad Drake
1:34 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I, for one, laugh hystericaly at BUTCH's comments and think that he / should should definitely consider writing a blog or, at the very least, consider hosting a radio show. I cannot understand a single thing BUTCH is talking about; however someone, somewhere is bound to understand BUTCH's truth. He should partner up with Raleigh Sakers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pka1WhVNhY
Put a bird on it
2:09 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Haha! I didn't even bother to read BUTCH'S comment, but I'm sure it didn't make one bit of sense. His posts on other articles have also been completely nonsensical. Based on prior comments he has left (i.e. Illinois Takes Step Toward Gay Marriage) were pretty sick and twisted. The site admin should ban him...
2:36 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Put a bird on it......
Butch probably IS one of the site administers. They delete a lot of harmless stuff from everyone else but let this lunatic ramble on.
4:16 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
BINGO...That just may be him at his home /compound in Pullman!!!!
3:42 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Butchy boy could you stay on topic just a bit. This article was running on 2 maybe more patch sites,not sure if it still is. I started comments on a patch out in the far west burbs. I see most of the comments coming from Oak Forest. If anyone missed my early posts you can google IL.HB0997 to see the proposed bill thats up That's the topic.
4:43 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I wouldn't waste my time talking to Butch. He's obviously got a lot of issues. Must not have gotten enough attention from his mama. I would guess that this guy was not breast fed.
4:37 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
@ SKULLY just curious how did u get a FL concealed permit if u live in Kendall cnty?
PS how bout inviting me over to shoot my 90MM in yer back yard?
4:45 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
I hear you were born on a farm. Any more in the litter?
4:58 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Butch If you don't know you are not a well iformed firearms owner. Saftey course.paperwork,fingerprints,background check and money. Easy to do
A 90MM I don't think you own any type weapon
4:40 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
All you idiots including glock22shootsblanks, get off of the library computers!!!
4:53 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
If you were twice as smart as you are you'd still be stupid.
5:02 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Well I am done for the day Thanks to all that stayed on topic
5:11 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Sorry Skull I could not get a concealed PERMIT from Fla would not look at my ID and ILL DRV lic, u must have some clout to fast track something! I LIVED THERE 7 MOS for years but did not register with the TAX MAN u know who that is?
Did u register to vote in FLA? No u caught me don't own a 90 MM COULD NOT bring it home nor the quad 50, not many people here know what it is!
Do own 3 smaller weapons 380-357 and 22 GLOCK not the 23 with muzzle suppressor! and I really don't want to go shooting with someone who may have voted for Cheney!
Tired of the B.S.
5:34 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
You could not get a concealed carry permit from Florida or anywhere else because you are insane.
Anybody that does not suffer from mental illness can get a Florida concealed carry permit, no matter what state they live in, as long as they meet the states requirements. Florida permits are honored in many other states as well.
Here is the link:
5:36 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Maybe if we all ignore the fool here he will go away.
The topic is guns not a brain dead retarded idiot !!!
Drugs have taken their toll many years ago, I'd say.
Anyone second my diagnosis?
Brad Drake
7:07 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
BUTCH...you need to sign up for this immediately: http://www.blogtalkradio.com
If you can speak as you type, we are all in for true enlightening and information we have all been missing for years. I, personally, really want to hear about these Castro-released-felons who went to Florida strictly to vote for the GOP. I mean Scarface was an awesome movie about a released Cuban convict, but I have a feeling BUTCH's story would be far better. This is great stuff! (I'm sure you can get ahold of Raleigh's agent to sit with you for the show!)
Bob Laird
8:15 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
The topic was guns. Everybody here has an opinion, and nobody is going to change their mind. 349 comments at this point and the last hundred or so were about butch. What does that say? I've read a lot, not all, but I'm not gonna say how I feel. My business and I won't try to change anybody elses mind. Go butch go!
8:24 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
Thanks to the Chicago orgainizer rabel rouser that got your vote !!!
Working stiffs !!!!
11:42 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013
The comments here are like seeing a stupid argument in a bar, leaving and returning a week later and the same few people are still blathering nonsensically repeating the same brainless opinions as if anyone in the real world cares. Find some hobbies that don't involve things that go "bang" and you may have lives.
6:54 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013
I agree with you totally. The purpose of these posts is really for the editors to report inflated number of hits to the site for their advertisers(?) and superiors.
Most of the half dozen or so people who participate view the site hundreds of times a day to argue their nonsense. They might only visit the site once a day without them and the number of hits reported would be miniscule.
These people need to get up off of their butts and join a health club or something more productive than what they do all day going back and forth.
The editors throw out the same arguments based on which ones got the most response from these losers. The whole gun argument has been presented in different disguises quite a few times her.
Now that I think about it, I'm not interested in this site anymore!
1:56 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Or....you can have a hobby that goes "bang" and preserve your life.
Why should I have to depend on the government?
7:40 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Other that the fact that we ARE the government, thank you for proving my point. Remember "Rev", we're not laughing WITH you.
4:02 pm on Wednesday, February 13, 2013
So, Old.....I should depend on you? Riiiiight, of course since you are of the "where are my food stamps" crowd, I guess more government works for you.
8:29 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013
Let's ban cell phones! There are way more idiots causing death while texting on their phone, than there are gun related deaths. Of, course our bleeding heart liberal cowards in the media only report on gun related incidents since it is a hot topic now. Go report, or do a study on cell phone related deaths.The numbers speak for themselves, just you won't see them published!
8:53 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
These are the Born & Bred USA terrorist spreading like a plague !!!
Detroit Facing Surge Of Black Violence
12:13 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
@ jay maybe if 5,000 of the 50,000 factory's were to move from BAINLAND in CHINA back to the Rust Belt the natives would not be restless or if they had the same education opportunity's instead of a Tsunami of guns sold to them by the RIGHTY White Robes!
ALL u all low info Geeks like to absorb this phony Wars on terror and drugs and now GUNS, IT IS All misinfo and a distraction from the Banksters,and Zionist looters by their TPARTY surrogates making a KILLING on Guns, LOOTING, transferring technology and everything that is pro MURKAN or anti American.
U ever read anything on HIGH TECH national security stuff being transferred from the Rust belt to the PEOPLES REP of ROBME?
Do u know where the RUST BELT is ?
Tired of the B.S.
1:13 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
I hope that your "RUST BELT" is the name you and your fellow inmates have given to the fence that surrounds the institution that you have been placed in.
J. Ann
10:16 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
try to cease from pandering your wacky politics will you? Like I said, an illegible insult in progress. Can you not stay on one topic at a time?
4:25 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Tired of the B.S.
Look for him in GARY, INDIANA
Could be at any bar in town !!
Tired of the B.S.
4:49 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Don't care where Butch is as long as it is nowhere near where I am. I only stop by to point out his insanity.
I would never actively try to find him nor would I want to find him. I try to stay away from crazy people.
9:54 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Tired, do you have the same feeling that I do? everytime I see something from Butch I feel like that is a totally wasted moment that I will never get to use for anything worthwhile.
10:02 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Well I am no longer go to get messages from this blog. It was interesting until a few got on here. Carry on butch keep spouting BS
John Feeney
10:25 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
After everything we here in Chicago have been through the last two years, if for some crazy reason "citizens" are allowed to carry concealed weapons, I'll just have to move. The image we are giving the youth leads to no-where. It's not the gun that bothers me, it's the "Citizens". And the way we go about things, it will not stop at Concealed Weapons.
10:53 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
John sorry you feel that way. But were you going to go we are the only state that doesnt have ccw you will be surrounded buy people with guns. I travel all over the country and they don,t have half the problems as we do and they have ccw. The fact that people are afraid of this is they are uniformed. When you travel out of state look arround your probably the only one unarmed so good luck looking for some were you can feel safe
10:47 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
@Skull remember NEVER invite tricky DICK CHENEY to a backyard shootout!
Is Skully as in Bones!
Franklin Marshall
10:55 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
This is the entire 2nd Amendment. The truth is that "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA" is precisely what the Presidents comments are directed at in their entirety. When all the weapons magically turn back into one-shot muskets, we can stop here. Since that won't happen, the gun owners must accept the return to Reasonable People creating and upholding Reasonable Laws for the betterment of We The People.
11:22 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
The 2nd Amendment is an individual right, not a right reserved for government sanctioned entities like military, police or even the national guard. Insinuating that 'well regulated militia' was included to protect the rights of these groups (in the Bill of Rights mind you - right between free speech and no quartering) because there was a fear that the people would see these organizations disarmed is absurd. This is basically what you are saying when you attempt to interpret the 2nd as anything less than an individual right.
3:56 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Jeff is absolutely correct. The Second Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms without regard to whether he/she is connected with an organized militia. The United States Supreme Court settled that issue in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008).
John Feeney
11:24 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
@ pssst50, let's be clear I have a problem with the caliber of "citizen", not the Law. Move ? a more rural area that will not have the number of "citizens" that are of concern. Dealing with 5 or 6 is one thing, dealing with thousands that in all truth should not be allowed anywhere near one is total different story. Hell they will steal and Senior Citizens purse because they just left the ATM. If they know the "take" would obtain a Gun, it would be stole "before" they got to the ATM.
People's character and mutual respect for each other has deteriorated to the point, carrying a gun will change that? Please - you're all Nuts.
Ernie Knight
1:46 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
It's the violent criminals that are the problem, not citizens in general. The 8 MILLION licensed, trained, law-abiding concealed carry permit holders in 49 states are not a problem.
No one is saying CCW is a recipe for mutual respect. It is a protective measure against violent predators.
John Feeney
2:10 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
@ Ernie - I'm not calling into question the 8 million. As for the State of Illinois | City of Chicago the governing authorities, they will @#%%% this up. One governor when to Jail because a Driver License Scam, so now they just give it to anyone.
My contention is simple, I don't trust the idiot citizens and I sure as hell don't trust authorities to administer this. This has nothing to do with "Rights". But everything to do with how (and who) will handle this. Madigan has not said (1) word in public where he stands on the issue. Just wants to hold public hearings so each side can best voice their opinion, fair enough.
Ernie Knight
3:34 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Yeah John,
But citizens have rights. Calling citizens "idiots" seems less than constructive.
Distrusting the politicians, OK. Distrusting everyone?
11:50 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
@butch, have you ever noticed that nobody on here has any use for or interest in your inane rhetoric? And yet YOU have the audacity to ask me if I've thought of changing AMMO when I personally don't think you have ever had a RATIONAL thought of your own. I did hear that one time you had a rational thought but it got lonely and left.
12:10 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
What you call inane, i CALL FOIA and enlightenment so who cares what you think of or call anything I or anyone thinks, who gave u the right to have exclusive audacity to question my anything because you personally are not equipped to think what I think, I also have the audacity to think yer major hangup has to do with the loneliness of being only one of the empty suits and 17,999 other PO BOXES in the Caymans!
11:58 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
@John right the meth and hillbilly cokers are not as dangerous as the skinny tattooed bangers in the KILLING FIELDS! As for the Rambo recent episode, the citizens in the neighborhood were not scared or intimidated because they went to bed and under their pillow was their alarm responder, it was not even as scary as the TYLENOL scare of years ago but the Media failed to get the response the AMMOLAND lobby was hoping that you are giving by the way!
J. Ann
2:18 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Killing Fields/ Ammoland/Tylenol----what the heck are you ranting about?!
3:21 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
"...Besides the advantage of being armed, it forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. The governments of Europe are afraid to trust the people with arms. If they did, the people would surely shake off the yoke of tyranny, as America did. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors."- (Source I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789) - James Madison
Tom Koz
5:47 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Franklin, it IS settled LAW. The Supreme Court has ruled INDIVIDUALS have the RIGHT to Keep and Bear arms, arms that are in common use TODAY!! Get over it !! Conceal Carry IS coming to Illinois !! Should have been here all along.