text:
Georgia voters gave the state more authority over charter schools on Tuesday, passing a constitutional amendment empowering a commission to overrule local school districts that reject charter school petitions.
With all counties fully reporting, the hotly contested amendment had support of 58.5 percent of voters. See selected county results below.
It was an emotionally charged issue that in some ways united Georgians across political and demographic lines. A Peach Pundit poll from late October had found "no significant difference [in support] based on whether a voter is a Republican or a Democrat, a male or a female, or based on race."
Camille Cottrell, an Emory University instructor and card-carrying Democrat, is an example of the ambiguity many voters felt about the issue. Cottrell, who voted yes because she feels something needs to be done to turn around failing school systems, continued to waver even after casting her ballot.
"It was a very, very tough vote for me," Cottrell, a Berkeley Lake resident, told Peachtree Corners Patch. "I believe very much in the public school system... I'm voting against my basic beliefs."
Terrence Morrow, who has children at two charter schools run by the Gwinnett County school system -- New Life Academy and Gwinnett School of Mathematics, Science and Technology -- voted against the amendment.
"They could do more, but I think they should go through the same process," Morrow told Suwanee Patch.
Duluth resident Mark Bender, who spent his post-voting time at a Suwanee Starbucks, said he supported the proposal.
"If one child can come out the better for it, that's why I voted for it," Bender said.
Dana Gerard of Canton also voted yes, saying that "getting the state involved can only benefit the creation of more charter schools."
But in Athens, Beth Hall Thrasher voted no, because, she said, the amendment "wouldn't give everyone the same opportunities."
Opponents have filed a lawsuit to prevent the amendment from taking effect, arguing that the ballot language misled voters about the proposal's intentions.
Patch editors Steve Burns, Rebecca McCarthy, Judy Putnam and Justin Ove contributed to this story.
Below are results for the state of Georgia and selected counties. For full results, see the Georgia Secretary of State's website.
Voting Yes | Voting No | Precincts Counted | |
Georgia total | 2,162,283 | 1532,451 | 100 percent |
Athens-Clarke |
17,622 |
20,878 |
100 percent |
Barrow | 15,454 |
8,638 |
100 percent |
Bartow | 18,839 |
15,673 |
100 percent |
Cherokee | 56,090 |
38,646 |
100 percent |
Cobb | 190,168 |
106,964 |
100 percent |
DeKalb | 187,326 |
105,542 |
100 percent |
Douglas | 35,813 |
17,609 |
100 percent |
Forsyth | 51,982 | 26,734 | 100 percent |
Fulton | 244,714 |
127,281 |
100 percent |
Gwinnett | 179,441 | 104,815 |
100 percent |
Liberty | 9,075 | 6,077 |
100 percent |
Oconee | 8,160 | 8,825 | 100 percent |
Paulding | 34,183 |
21,137 |
100 percent |
Walton | 22,235 |
13,554 |
100 percent |
Note: Oconee County numbers were revised on Nov. 12. They have been updated.
Steely Dan
12:30 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Wow, those are huge, huge margins in metro Atlanta counties. Resounding majorities.
12:44 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Mr. Chapman, based on these numbers Mr. Geist is serving the majority in the county by supporting CCA. Oh yeah, and by the way, if you don't like it, you can MOVE!
Rae Harkness
12:52 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
We spoke with our ballots tonight. Big win for parents!
MA Evans
8:43 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
And a big loss for Georgia's children. Hopefully it'll be challenged in court.
3:02 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
More polarization and divisiveness. We're going backward instead of FORWARD!.
Pam Steen
1:21 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Charter supporters owe a big THANK YOU to Elizabeth Hooper. Those who read her articles will know what I mean.
Charles Schwable
4:33 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
well if I voted I would vote yes, because Cobb School board cannot even do right with SPLOST so what would they do with Charter school money?
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:13 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Couldn't get to a poll?
It ALWAYS amazes me when people vote for higher taxes and ever more layers of government rather than fixing the issues first...
What this amendment costs us nothing? check back in 6-12 months.
Teresa Johnson
6:58 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
I don't think the full impact of this vote will be realized until its implementation. They claim higher success rates yet they don't have to take children with disabilities. Segregation will return reducing opportunities for all children. It's not equal. And sadly we live in a world that already draws lines around disabled and economically disadvantaged citizens. It's heart breaking to see how this will negatively impact our most vulnerable. Not to mention the impact of the significant reduction in funding an already struggling school district due to deep budget cuts. Be careful what you wish for. You may get something you never expected.
Steely Dan
9:14 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
they do have to take children with disabilities, as they're public schools.
the good news is that your opinion, based on misinformation, got completely destroyed across the state yesterday. Children with disabilities currently being ignored in traditional public schools will now have an alternative to their educational dead-end, thanks to the 60% of Georgians who wisely voted YES.
Charlie Russell
10:43 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Yes, but my question is why did I get numerous phone calls from California urging me to vote for this? Did any of you get these calls? Someone paid a lot of money for the telemarketing.
Think about the Kids
2:55 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
You have no idea what you are talking about. Of course we have chidlren with disabilities. Where on earth did you get information like that? Our children with disabilites get served, and they are very successful at our charter school!
North Georgia Weather
4:29 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Excuse me dan, my wife is a Special Ed teacher and you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. Ignored?
Athens Mama
6:06 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
@North Georgia Weather: Excuse me, I've worked in Special Ed and I know exactly what he's talking about! A child with a learning disability gets lumped in with children who have other types of special education needs and gets minimally served! A child who truly has a chance at succeeding, a child who exceeds in other areas of the CRCT and will not pass a certain grade unless higher level service without behavior districations. The students with the severe behavior issues have a small likelihood of passing, and this is coming from me - a major advocate for kids with severe behavior issues. CHARTER SCHOOLS WILL SAVE MANY WHO WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN TREATED POORLY IN REGULAR PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!
Steely Dan
7:34 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
N GA Weather, you're flat wrong. The charter schools have to take all children. And do so. There are numerous articles elsewhere on the Patch of people with spec. needs kids in charters who are thriving.
For someone allegedly in public schools, you're woefully misinformed on charter schools.
Good news: 2 million GA voters know better.
North Georgia Weather
4:48 am on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Dan, trust me, I'm a lot more informed about it than you are. And for the record, I never said that they didn't have to take special ed or disabilities. Your reading comprehension is lacking, is that because of public schools?
And here's the fallacy to the whole thing. Charter schools that are successful have fantastic parental support. Charter schools that don't do well almost always have a low amount of parental involvement. Following that logic, public schools that are the lower end of the test scores, have less parental involvement versus schools on the other end.
I say this because the whole problem with our education system is not the system. Sure, there are things that can be done better and I know they are constantly trying to improve. But the real problem lies in the breakdown of the family unit in this country. This breakdown contributes to a lack of disipline in the home which then carries over to school. How many of you whiners and complainers have spent just one class period in a school since you graduated? The school environment is very different than it use to be. Kids are rude, have a total lack of respect for any authority, they are disruptive, and have very little initiative to do anything on their own.
So don't count on your charter school to be any better than a public school, because in many cases, it won't be.
Steely Dan
9:02 am on Thursday, November 8, 2012
N GA Weather, I know far more about this amendment and charter schools than you can possibly imagine.
I do agree that parental involvement is the key. So why do you hate a successful charter school that manages to get active parental involvement just because somewhere there's a public school with slack parents? Why do you seek to punish all children for the failures of a few parents?
Your argument is exactly why I and 2 million others voted YES - to give parents trapped in public school hellholes with no parental involvement an option for a better education. And that's the biggest difference between you & I: You seek to keep kids trapped in failing schools, just hoping for the best without any real actions taken to improve the situation. I seek to get those parents' kids out of such schools and into an ed. environment where they can thrive. Why hold back everyone due to the actions of a few?
And if you weren't referring to special ed, why did you type "Excuse me dan, my wife is a Special Ed teacher and you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. Ignored?"?
I know exactly what I'm talking about and exactly the failing type of school system I'm glad parents may now be able to escape in some areas, though they had to fight people like you tooth & nail to do so.
You can have the last word - I'm not wasting any more bandwidth on anyone that wants to keep kids trapped in failure. You're a waste of time.
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:17 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
If charter schools take all children why is Ivy Prep all GIRLS?
Or has that changed now?
Rebecca McCarthy
7:21 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The language of the amendment has been challenged in court (as misleading), and, if past is prologue, it won't stand and the legislation will be tossed out. So stay tuned.
1:10 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Exactly. It was worded " provides for improving student achievement and parental involvement through more charter school options". If you didn't know anything about the actual amendment you would vote yes. I know many folks who voted yes only to realize they would have voted no if they had known the truth. This was very misleading and made me really disgusted. It shows the intent of this leadership. Very misleading people here. There will be multiple lawsuits. A large firm is already on it.
3:18 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
I agree that the language was misleading. I read it a few times and decided to vote no; as I wrote, "It is polarizing and divisive." I spoke with a very well-educated, intelligent couple who have children in a charter school; they did not pick up on the hidden agenda (my words). The surprised look on the father's face when he realized what he had just voted for. The mother, who had not voted, said, "Thank you very much because I did not realize the effect of voting yes for this." After that I continued to discuss it with a few other parents because I felt they may not have understood the effect of voting yes; and I was correct. We each have our understanding of this amendment and voted accordingly; unfortunately, many people thought this would provide better education for all children. We say the federal gov't. should not control certain issues, so why should the state have this kind of decision-making authority on local schools? Why can't we work on improving the public schools, vote out the ineffective council members and work with the schools as parents need to? Some schools can't even get parents to pay 4 or 5 $ to support the PTA.
3:24 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
I just looked down at jeff's response and my eye caught this wording from the amendment: " provides for improving .................... parental involvement through more charter school options". Parents are supposed to have more involvement in a charter school, but that is not always the case. Who "enforces" this? It is most often the same parents who worked with the school before it became a charter school, who are working afterwards.
5:32 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
It does seem to just be an inclusionary term to create another "board" of commish at the state level. And, as someone mentioned, the bill is 100 pages long, so I haven't read it. Is there somewhere to actually read the (bill) law?
Julie Beem
7:32 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
As the mom of a child who has been attending a state chartered school for the past 6 years (with numerous disabilities and a very complicated IEP), I know the voters made the right choice! And I thank Georgians for giving a choice to those children who need it. Charter schools are public schools and are an important part of providing free, appropriate education to many.
Athens Mama
6:09 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Thank you so much Julie!! We need more parent and student voices to support this amendment and to support charter schools!!!
Aaron Hunter
8:00 am on Thursday, November 8, 2012
"Charter schools are public schools and are an important part of providing free, appropriate education to many."
"FREE"? Is your reference of "FREE" to be considered the same as in "FREE HEALTHCARE"? You may certainly feel "FREE" to toss around such a term loosely but the "FREE" mentality is this country is eroding it's true definition. (hence our recent election outcome) "FREE" is the new term for Entitlement.
Just note that there are millions of tax payers who have no children in school. Please explain to them how any of this is "FREE".
Stephen W. Ramsden
7:42 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The wording of this amendment was nothing like what the people on each side of the issue were claiming. I dont have a dog in this fight but the way this amendment was written on my ballot was confusing at best, voter fraud at worse. I voted NO because it smelled of hi heaven, just like the TSPLOST debacle earlier in the year.
Stephen W. Ramsden
7:45 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
I mean, Charter Schools have been a success in my opinion and who could vote against them? The bill allows the State of GA to overturn local communities decisions as to whether they want them, right? This was NOT on the ballot.
Mary Lamb
8:06 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Charter schools are public schools. They are required to take any student who enrolls, even those with special needs. The state process is as rigorous as the local process. This is a victory. It allows excellence to overcome local prejudices and politics that have high jacked our public education system.
North Georgia Weather
4:39 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
You haven't seen politics until you see how this plays out. Go read the stories about many of these schools, and how public funds are mismanaged and misappropriated. And when something happens at your charter school that you don't like, who are you going to cry to? No one locally, that's for sure. People have no idea what they've voted for but they sure made it sound good.
And we have several charter schools here in Gwinnett (part of Gwinnett County School System) that are doing well, and there is a place for them, but not by this method.
You all are so gullible.
Athens Mama
6:11 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Actually, she is not so gullible, but you are so closed minded North Georgia Weather. Not much will change as a result of this, except that more charter schools will be approved! Hooray for the people of Georgia! If you don't like what's going on in your charter school - guess what NGW?!?!?! You can go enroll in your local neighborhood school! YOU'LL HAVE A CHOICE!! That's more that what I had when they wanted to throw my child to the wolves.
M lind
8:31 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
It is important to educate yourself BEFORE you go to the polls. You cannot make a decision based solely on the blurb on the ballot. You must read the entire text before you vote and make your decision based on that.
8:35 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
the voters have spoken - all you detractors should eat a teaspoon of sugar to offset those sour grapes you're passing around. Georgia voters aren't happy with the state of public education, and if you're part of that establishment, fasten your seatbelts, change is coming!
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:22 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Before those grapes get passed out , might want to wait through a budget cycle or 2.
Gina Hill
8:39 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
My son attends a charter school that was originally turned down by our dysfunctional local school board and then approved by the state. If that had not happened, the school would not exist today. It is an AMAZING school with lots of diversity -- both racially and socioeconomically.
Athens Mama
6:12 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Thank you Gina Hill! Please keep posting on this issue!! We need more parent and student success stories to be heard in support of charters!!!
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:23 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Charters really aren't the issue, it's how the state will operate the new board that's front and center.
Frank Jones
8:54 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Yesterday was a sad day for Georgia's kids and Georgia as a whole. Yesterday, the right-wing, pro-business politicians successfully manipulated the voters into passing Amendment 1. Without the overtly biased ballot language and mis-information campaign by Governor Deal and others, Amend 1 would have failed!
Unfortunately, Governor Deal, his cronies, and the outside for-profit charter groups knew that citizens of Georgia could be manipulated with great ease. They out-smarted over half the citizens. What a sad day!
So now...for-profit charter management companies will have free reign to siphon money from the state. They'll set up shell not-for-profits and charge excessive management fees for their services. They'll purchase real estate via another shell company and lease the buildings to the not-for-profit at excessive rentals -- creating another profit stream for the for-profit company. They'll sign contracts with other service providers without open bidding. And they'll do this with our public tax dollars...with little to no public oversight. Can you say fraud and corruption?
And what will they give us? A promise, a pledge, that they'll educate our students better than traditional schools followed by, if we fail you can have the kids back and fix our mistakes. How thoughtful! How nice of them after pocketing millions!
IMO, the fight shouldn't be over. It's time to sue the state over the bias ballot language. Who wants sue? Is their a suit in process?
Steely Dan
9:22 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Why waste money on a lawsuit that will fail? I thought we lacked all sorts of funding. Yet now you want to burden the taxpayer with a frivolous lawsuit? Where's that money coming from? Complete hypocrisy, as usual, from the loser NO crowd.
Your side lost. Over half of GA has tired of your do-nothing, idea-less behavior that has crapped on our kids' education for decades. Time to step aside for reform.
The people have spoken.
Common Sense
10:17 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Frank, there is one in place, so we should all stay tuned.
And now, IMO, it's time for the counties to sue the state for withholding almost $6 billion from public education over the last 10 years. The last time I checked, QBE IS LAW. Don't give me the 'it's broken crap' - if so, no one has bothered to fix it yet! So... you lawyers out there... wherever you are. Get yourselves together, march down to the Gold Dome, and wipe the floor with our moronic legislators that are more concerned with the 1% of GA's kids attending Charters, than the 95% of kids SUFFERING from austerity cuts.
Think about the Kids
3:01 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
You are insulting over half of the citizens of Georgia if you are implying that the Governor somehow "tricked" them into voting yes. I think everyone is smart enough to know that with all campaigns it is up to the voter to seek the facts. If the wording was an issue, surely one could read up on the amendment. Aren't all responsible voters required to get the facts? I know where I live hundres of lies were being tossed around trying to convince people to vote know.
I am sorry that you feel this way. However, rather than waste countless dollars on a law suit, why doesn't everyone just get to the business of spending money on educating our children?
North Georgia Weather
5:53 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Common Sense is correct on every point.
The wording was not a neutral question, it basically said "if you want better schools, vote for this". While some charter schools do very well (we have two in Gwinnett that are great) but others are worse than public schools. I don't understand why we need another level of government just to manage privately run (for profit) and government funded schools. Despite what you might think, this isn't the "fairy tale" ending you think it will be. All the kids in Georgia will suffer because of this short sighted attempt to privatize the school system.
MA Evans
8:55 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The purpose of this amendment and charter schools in general is to destroy the public school system. And not just in this state but the US. The Koch brothers, Ann Walton and groups funded by them are supporting charter schools.
There have been many studies and reports showing their success rate isn't higher than public schools. I hope this amendment will be challenged in court.
Athens Mama
6:14 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The purpose of this is to give parents and students in Georgia more choices when it comes to public education. In some schools, the admins and certain teachers rule like warlords. Long live the people!! Long live more choices for the people!!
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:27 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
So lets NOT fix the main problem but ADD yet another layer of government to fund and let go just as far off the deep end...
barbara goda
9:07 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
big l0oss for public schools who have to try to teach illegals and others who do not care. watch the money go into ANOTHER BOARD with great salaries to "run" this.
shame on our governor for selling out public schools which are his job
Steely Dan
9:19 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
local supers and admins...and some teachers...sold out public education long ago. 60% of Georgians are fed up with the current system. Those in public education have only themselves to blame but of course, these folks have never embraced accountability.
No More Bullies
10:17 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Accountability? Look at your own charter school that won't put its test scores on its website, won't allow parents to elect representatives to its council or board, won't put contact information for board members on its website, won't comply with Open Meetings law, and if a parent has a complaint, they have to call Florida.
Steely Dan
10:31 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
had your heroic superintendent & local board approved that charter school, you could complain about it. But they didn't so you can't. My neighbors rave about its effects on their children though, so it sounds like they're doing a great job doing what the dismal school they left couldn't do: inspire and educate their children.
I had no problems finding test scores though. The Patch published them months ago. Getting a copy of the real, 500+ page CCSD budget has been like pulling teeth though. I refuse to pay several hundred $$$ for something I've already paid for.
No More Bullies
11:17 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
So you admit there is no accountability to taxpayers for a state charter school? Even a state charter school uses Cherokee County money through local fair share dollars that fund the state education budget AND through state income tax. More than 250 parents removed their children the first year, so not all had rave reviews. Real accountability does not rely on someone else's website for information.
Steely Dan
12:21 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
" Real accountability does not rely on someone else's website for information."
and yet, with the CCSD Budget, that's all either of us has to go by!!!
No More Bullies
2:47 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
And what do we have to go by with a charter school budget? 3 pages of vague line items you had to be hounded into posting a day before the primary? Cherokee County schools have months of financial reports, SPLOST reports, a 75-page budget summary (for the last 3 years), more than 50 different documents right there on their own website-- not on Patch!
Steely Dan
4:31 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Bullies, the real CCSD budget is 100s of pages long and not easily available to the public, as my fruitless efforts have shown. I'm not interested in the watered-down version on their website - I'd like to see a line x line itemized budget but have been told it'll cost me $100s, though I've already paid 1000s in property tax. So much for accountability.
North Georgia Weather
4:48 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
dan, what if 1000 people went up to get a copy of the budget... how much money and time would that cost the school system? Do they eat that money or attempt to be good stewards and recoup those losses?
And let me tell you something, you know nothing about "those in public education". I've worked for two school systems for 25 years and my wife is a teacher. I live the life every day. You simply DO NOT know what you are talking about.
No More Bullies
6:06 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Dan, the point is not to hear you whine about how you want public schools cater to your every whim, the point is you have claimed charter schools to be superior in every way, including accountability. Show us how your school provides more/better budget info. Show us how your school meetings and agenda packets are more accessible. Show us where your meetings are recorded. Show us how your board members are elected/selected. Show us one thing that equals greater accountability.
Steely Dan
7:27 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Bullies, give the charter school a call for that information. And Amendment 1 isn't just about Cherokee County's schools but the entire state.
N GA Weather - You've spent 25 years in public education. You've no idea how life is in the private sector, where we can't take taxpayer's $$$ when we fail at our jobs (unless we're Wall St - then Obama will bail us out!). if schools had done a better job educating children over the years, this amendment's passage wouldn't have been necessary. Unfortunately for tens of thousands of GA school children over the decades, that wasn't the case.
Those in public education need to get their act together and start educating our children rather than whining about funding. We're tired of the excuses as we continue to throw good money after bad. Thankfully, parents will have alternatives to failing public schools now, regardless of short-sighted local boards.
Overwhelmingly, GA voters agreed with this yesterday. You folks need to stop living in Denial - your monopoly on education is over.
Juan Dela Cruz
8:18 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Make more than the gwinett dude who rakes in $410K (not to mention what his staff makes)? And then there are all the other superintendents raking it in. That's big government we don't need.
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:28 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
NOW THERE"S a Charter that makes sense - take all English as second lanuage students
9:17 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Hopefully this is the beginning of an improvement in the horrible, wasteful and corrupt public school systems in our area.
A B Alcott
12:25 am on Saturday, November 10, 2012
Please explain, Dean. I'm interested in hearing more about what you deem "horrible, wasteful and corrupt" in public school systems.
Georgette T
9:19 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
It was disheartening to watch so many voters entering their voting booths and take a long time to read the amendments, that is not the place to "learn" about what they are voting is for. So many scream about keeping the government out of our business, yet look what they just gave away. The need for Charter Schools should be a local issue . This State can be bought, and it just was.
In spite of..
9:50 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
It was definitely disenchanting Georgette. Also, it is sad to know that if the only choice presented is a republican party (name) & the other choice is (write it in), that many are totally baffled because they do not know a name to (write in)....bad bad politics...bad bad practices.
Juan Dela Cruz
8:19 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
The state can't be bought. We've been funding these district fat cats and their fat cat staffs for too long. Time to get that liberal mindset chucked out. The state is helping the locals take ownership and the big government crowd doesn't like it.
North Georgia Weather
9:11 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Juan, the ownership of schools is local now (or was in the case of charter schools). There won't be anyone local to go to when your charter school has issues, that will all be at the state level.
If you voted yes, you voted to create ANOTHER level of government, in addition to the State Department of Education.
MA Evans
9:30 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Some opponents have filed a lawsuit in Fulton County Superior Court arguing that the amendment should be invalidated because of the language. http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=254923
Steely Dan
10:04 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
yep - sue and drain even more taxpayer funds, even after crying for months about a supposed lack of funding.
It was a victory for the realists and a crushing defeat for the hypocrites!
NO ideas + NO interest in fixing a broken system == NO CHANCE OF WINNING.
Rebecca McCarthy
9:49 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The lawsuit was filed before the vote. http://athens.patch.com/articles/teacher-pastor-file-suit-over-language-in-charter-schools-amendment
Common Sense
10:23 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Let's hope it's more successful than the idiots (some local!) that got together with Glenn Delk to sue the school systems for supposedly campaigning against A1 (even though PUBLIC Charter Schools advocated for it all around the state). I'm assuming Steely thought that was a big waste of money, too?
Steely Dan
10:34 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
that didn't waste a dime of my money nor yours, Common Sense.
which apparently isn't so common.
I need to get my wine-making equipment together - there's bushels of sour grapes in this thread going to waste!
jim ponsoldt
11:31 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
it will be interesting to see whether the court allows a hearing on the lawsuit challenging the highly misleading ballot language. perhaps some voters from counties like fulton and dekalb, which heavily supported the "yes" vote, might be recruited to describe why they voted "yes". for the courts (upon whom there will be quite a bit of political pressure) not to grant a hearing would be to allow our government to defraud the voters into amending the constitution. that's serious stuff. think about the ballot language appended to the next "initiative". what's next?
In spite of..
10:28 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Hi Steely,
To spite is to intentionally annoy, hurt, or upset. Spiteful words or actions are delivered in such a way that it is clear that the person is delivering them just to annoy, hurt, or upset.[1] When the intent to annoy, hurt, or upset is shown subtly, behavior is considered catty.[2]
The Underground Man, in Fyodor Dostoevsky's novella Notes from Underground, is an example of spite. His motivation remains constantly spiteful, undercutting his own existence and ability to live.
Steely Dan
10:49 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Hi, spite!
To ignore is to to refrain from noticing or recognizing. To tune out. To disregard.
I.E. what the traditional public ed. system has done for years to the children and parents of GA, resulting in the overwhelming # of YES votes we saw yesterday.
Had the traditional ed. system done its job and put children FIRST all these years, yesterday's A1 passage wouldn't have been necessary.
You can shoot the messenger all you want but the message was clear yesterday. LOUD and clear.
In spite of..
10:35 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
(Spite house)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A spite house is a building constructed or modified to irritate neighbors or other parties with land stakes. Spite houses often serve as obstructions, blocking out light or access to neighboring buildings, or as flamboyant symbols of defiance.[1][2] Because long-term occupation is at best a secondary consideration, spite houses frequently sport strange and impractical structures.
Spite houses are much rarer than spite fences.[1] This is partially attributable to the fact that modern building codes often prevent the construction of houses likely to impinge on neighbors' views or privacy, but mostly because fence construction is far cheaper than home construction.[3]
Stephen W. Ramsden
10:39 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
come on guys, the issue isnt charter schools, its who gets to approve the spending of taxpayer money on charter schools. No rational person could read what was on the ballot yesterday and then read the actual amendment and say it was written clearly on the ballot.
In spite of..
10:42 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Amen...Common Sense.
In spite of the lack of some peoples common sense....like take Steely Dan for instance
North Georgia Weather
6:18 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
How many kids do you think will benefit from this Dan? And then let's weight that against what is good for the rest of the kids in Georgia that you've now crapped on.
10:51 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Anyone who says that this is taking money away from the public schools is just spewing the propaganda put out by school boards. The money follows the child. If a child leaves, that school doesn't need to retain the money for that child. They speak of their budgets in terms of "per student" costs. When a student leaves, those costs go down. So that argument is invalid.
Secondly, charter schools do not have to perform better. They are run DIFFERENTLY, and that works better as a learning environment for some students who do not perform well in their traditional public schools. And EVERYONE has the same opportunity. It is a public school. There is no selective admissions process. Another invalid argument.
Charter schools are there for one simple thing. CHOICE. When parents have a choice where to educate their children, then schools will have to compete to retain those students. Better performance will equal higher enrollment.
Schools will no longer be able to perpetually underperform with no repercussions.
Competition is good. And the school boards are afraid of this, thus the fierce opposition. Thus the reason they shoot down charter schools in their districts. Thus the reason this amendment needed to be passed.
Shame on any parent who cannot see that. Shame on anyone who would vote to retain a monopoloy control over the education of your children instead of giving children a CHOICE of where and how they would like to be educated.
Christy Taylor
11:39 am on Friday, November 9, 2012
If it were a zero sum equation, you would be right...but it is not. These new charter schools will be funded at 2.5x what the traditional school student is funded. (about $7400 per student for new charter vs. $2995 per student at traditional public school. Do the math!
In spite of..
11:01 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Amen....my hat tips to Anastasia!
Steely...don't try to fool us about your wine equipment, we can surely see your making moonshine.
Steely Dan
11:09 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
In spite of.... are you for or against A1? On one post, you praise Frank 'NO' Jones but here, you tip your cap to 'YES' Anastasia.
My moonshinin' days are long past. Can't afford the liquor tax!
Steely Dan
11:05 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
excellent response. The vast majority of GA parents and voters are in agreement with you.
And when a student leaves for a charter school not approved by the local board, the money does NOT follow the child, but stays within the district. A1's passage doesn't change this. So not only are costs lowered, but the available tax $$ remain the same. Result is a net gain for such a district, like Cherokee County, which has never approved a charter school even as its board makes the laughable claim to be 'pro-charter'.
In spite of..
1:39 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Steely...yes I do know what I am talking about. Why have you been so antagonizing to everyone. The problem is you dish it but can't take it. I can see why you take a stance with crooked practices. This is so much about what was done & how it was done to get the yes votes...it shows that some people don't play by the rules and can't win by the rules so they stoop low and get what they want anyway they can...and your singing praises about it and shooting everyone down that can see what was done.
North Georgia Weather
11:08 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Where do you think this money comes from, thin air?
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
10:33 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Its Obama money...
QE forever!
In spite of..
11:18 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Hi Steely, In case you didn't notice & even though I don't owe you an explanation, the comment for Anas was included with the comment for you. Get it?
Steely Dan
12:03 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
You make no sense, InSpiteOf. In one post, you praise Frank NO Jones and in the other you tip your cap to YES Anas.
Please continue the weak personal insults, for they are always the first sign of a lost debate. Though 2 MILLION+ GA voters are a pretty good sign too!
In spite of..
11:21 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Oh, & Steely,
have another sip of shine. How is it made these days. do you still use corn.
In spite of..
11:46 am on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
"initiatives have moved away from empowering the average citizen" and toward becoming a tool for well-heeled special interests to advance their agendas.
Jodi Haisten
1:03 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
The amount of voters who voted yes for Amendment 1 speaks highly of how many folks realize there are issues in the public school systems in this state. Whether they had kids in the system, have kids now in the system or will be having kids in the future in the system they stood up and boldly told the superintendents and school boards "you need to get your act together" because we want and now have other options if you don't. The finger pointing can and needs to stop and we need to own up to the fact that Ga is in the bottom of the heap for education not only with other states but other countries as well!! Instead of having Ga on the news as a state that fights among their neighbors and friends over school issues, let's be the state know for kicking butt on school scores and leading the way to producing the next generation of awesome adults. Time to put down the yard signs, car flyers and let's try sharing what works for each set of schools and use it to build UP our kids, not tear them down because they go to charter or go to public.
To those that voted yes, thank you from the bottom of my heart for hearing charter parents plea of "our kids, our choice". I hope you don't have to go through issues some of us have gone through to have had us make the choice to go Charter. Education for our kids has and always will be our primary concern.
North Georgia Weather
1:28 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Where were you raised? Georgia? And where do you live?
Athens Mama
6:16 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Thank you Jodi!! Keep blogging in support for charters!!
Christy Taylor
9:12 am on Thursday, November 8, 2012
A NO vote was not a vote against Charter Schools. I was a vote against THIS PLAN. This plan will fund Charter Schools at 2.5 times the amount that our public schools are funded. From where will this extra money come?
North Georgia Weather
6:23 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Great point Christy, and you notice that no one has answered that question.
Jodi Haisten
10:12 pm on Friday, November 9, 2012
@North Georgia Weather. Where I was raised isn't an issue. What was instilled in me is the issue and that was, that as a parent I am MY child's advocate. And as his advocate keeping him in the public school system was robbing him, I tried working with my prior school over my child's issues. But as some point I have to step back and say "we are at an impasse and it's time to move on". The charter school is a welcome for those parents who feel they are beating their heads against a wall with school officials. Would anyone in your circle of family or friends expect you to go to a job day after day after day where you are getting nothing out of it, so stressed over bulling and other issue I won't dredge up. A job where you are actually being left behind in furthering your career becasue you are not being shown any new technology. Thats all we as parents are looking for, for our kids.
1:12 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
It was worded " provides for improving student achievement and parental involvement through more charter school options". If you didn't know anything about the actual amendment you would vote yes. I know many folks who voted yes only to realize they would have voted no if they had known the truth. This was very misleading and made me really disgusted. It shows the intent of this leadership. Very misleading people here. There will be multiple lawsuits. A large firm is already on it.
Miles Rich
3:04 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Jeff, that is good to know. When I saw the ballot, I was hoping there would be a legal challenge if it passed. So misleading. The Romney Campaign must have coordinated with Deal to get that wording on the ballot.
Juan Dela Cruz
8:21 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
TSPOST or whatever the acronym is was worded to "trick" us into voting yes. We voted no. So, it seems the voters are smart enough as to what to accept and what to reject.
In spite of..
1:59 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Steely...yes I do know what I am talking about. Why have you been so antagonizing to everyone. The problem is you dish it but can't take it. I can see why you take a stance with crooked practices. This is so much about what was done & how it was done to get the yes votes...it shows that some people don't play by the rules and can't win by the rules so they stoop low and get what they want anyway they can...and your singing praises about it and shooting everyone down that can see what was done.
Steely Dan
2:42 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Spite, it's sad that...to the NO crowd...one who presents facts is an "antagonizer". Additionally, your buddies Frank Jones, Monty Brewster, and numerous others have been just as antagonistic - your silence on their behavior is both hypocritical and deafening. Finally, if board chair Mike Chapman can figuratively give the middle finger to thousands of parents who desire school choice (58,000 of them in Cherokee County), I can advocate for Amendment 1 on a public website.
I don't care for being politically-correct with your feelings nor self-esteem when discussing the futures of my grandchildren and their education. It's time to speak frankly about the sorry state of GA public education. Yesterday was the first step to real reform. 2 million Georgians agreed with me.
Don't like it? You can just move.
North Georgia Weather
4:19 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Tell me dan (I like Steely Dan too much to call you that), where do you live? Maybe it's just YOUR school system that is bad. And why you think that all of a sudden charter schools are just gonna start popping up everywhere?
In spite of..
3:44 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
I'm not moving..I'm staying. I look forward to big changes around here. Not talking about underhandedness & stealing votes.
Your unwillingness to stand before me alone is a bit childish. You don't have to try to throw the others under the bus as well by being a tattle tell. I called you to my office because you are so all aglow about the yes & don't give a care about how it was obtained. Says a lot about you doesn't it. That's what I am talking about lil' buddy ole pal. Anyway, the name of the forum is (Georgia Charter School Amendment Appears To Pass)...
Appears means seemingly.
Steely Dan
4:07 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Spite, you really need to stop drinking so early in the day.
5:14 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
WSBtv just showed a "map" of how the counties by state ga voted. All were yes save a few counties in the south ga. But the vote count seemed disparaging (2.5m Y, 1.5m N).....
5:18 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
One Spammer, many names - Emily, Make Mine A Double, DunwoodyWorkingMan, Roger That ......
5:18 pm on Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Might can find the map here: http://www.wsbtv.com/s/charter-schools/
I can't see the vid because I won't download adobe.
Miles Rich
3:01 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
This vote proves two things: 1. The electorate is totally uninformed; and 2. Any amendment, if worded right, can pass. When you look at the numbers in Fulton or DeKalb and compare those to the Presidential Race, it is obvious that the African American Community just voted to destroy their own schools and bring back Jim Crow without even knowing that they did it. The fact that this is going to allow Governor Deal and his cronies to take $2.50 and give it to these for profit charter schools, for every dollar that goes to a "regular" public school, is going to put such pressure on local school boards that the only result can be the degradation of non charter school. Fortunately, my son is in high school and we will not personally suffer. Perhaps the public high schools, like Johns Creek, or Chattahoochee, or Milton can become Charter schools like Walton did, and keep their neighborhood school designation and still get the funding they need.
Mike payne
4:15 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Miles are you saying African Americans are not smart enough to understand the ballot? I guess that is easier than admitting that the schools in Fulton and DeKalb are awful. Shame on the "uninformed" for voting for school choice. They should just be happy with what they have. School choice is here and you will just have to swallow it.
Athens Mama
5:05 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Following that logic, then only white children will be allowed to attend charter schools? Ri-freaking-diculous.
Miles Rich
4:41 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Mr. Payne, where did you get that from? I didn't say that anyone was not smart, I said they were uninformed. The schools in Fulton County, especially North Fulton County, are NOT AWFUL at all. They are some of the best public schools anywhere. You are one the one that is uninformed. Check the SAT scores at Northview High, or Johns Creek, or Chattahoochee, or Roswell, or Milton, or South Forsyth, etc, and you will find they compare very favorably with many if not most private schools and certainly well with most charter schools. This plan you support is just another way to destroy the public school system, by stripping state funds from the schools we already have. Fulton County and DeKalb have Charter Schools. They don't need Nathan Deal appointing a board of his friends and cronies to go around local control of our schools..
Athens Mama
5:07 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
Mr. Rich, I just voted for President Obama's re-election; I am certainly not racist. The charter school amendment will help children of all backgrounds and skin colors. It will help mothers, fathers, and caregivers of all skin colors to have choices so that they can deliver the best quality of education to their children. Your argument is, in my opinion, quite ridiculous.
Mr. B
6:14 pm on Thursday, November 8, 2012
How does voting for Obama determine whether you are racist or not? Surely, you're not suggesting only racists voted against him.
Athens Mama
11:45 pm on Friday, November 9, 2012
Mr. B, you need to take a class in text analysis. If I say that I am most certainly not A because I did B, that has nothing to do with C. I purport that it is highly unlikely to vote for a man who is half black for President if you are a racist. This has nothing to do with those who voted for someone else. CHOICES, NGW. How many times does it have to be typed? CHOICES. You have children, that's been established. So, if your wife works, and you work, and you need someone to care for your baby, you aren't confined to the choice of one nanny or one day care center. If one person has bad references or doesn't deliver high quality service to your family, then you have CHOICES. Charter schools offer CHOICES.
Nancy Sistrant
12:55 am on Saturday, November 10, 2012
Athens Mama, I don't have children. I'm not a racist either and I don't feel like I should have to pay for your child's education problems. I feel that you should consider all this before having sex.
I ask you, do you feel that I should be forced to pay for your child's education?
Miles Rich
8:38 am on Monday, November 12, 2012
Athens Mama, you have been deceived then, as many voters have been. Taking 250% of the funding allocated to non state chartered schools, (all public schools), is going to divert funds to these schools, and rather than helping your children or those of your friends, these funds are going to be used to set up schools for the privileged. With the anti tax mentality of Georgia voters in general, any siphoning of the limited funds available will only go to denigrate the schools we have now. This amendment most importantly takes control away from local school boards and turns them over to the politicians in Atlanta, and their cronies. Nathan Deal's board is not going to be elected. This deal sounds to me just like the unethical business deals (google Nathan Deal and salvage titles) that Deal was involved in that made him resign his US House seat, before he was fully investigated by the non partisan ethics panel in that body. You have made a known crook the head of the public schools.
A B Alcott
12:48 am on Saturday, November 10, 2012
It looks like the Charter schools will now need to prove the promised success. I would like to see success all around. As we know that each child is different, and the charter environment may work for some, while the district school environment may work better for others.
People, I don't know how to tell you this, but you have to stop fighting the charter schools. You're only hurting the kids. And the others that are clearly anti-public schools - the same goes for you. The amendment passed. Make the charter school the best it possibly can be. Make the management company be accountable to the taxpayers and transparent with its goals.
But most of all, we must hold our legislators accountable. We got the amendment passed, and we seem to have the funding needed regardless if they are approved locally. Now we also need to make sure that all public schools are being funded to support the children that are attending them. If the public schools are under funded, they will truly fail. This failure is every Georgian's failure. The divisiveness has to stop, and it will begin with us - the people that voted yes.
We need to prove to those that voted against the amendment that we are for ALL children, instead of just saying it. Did you really mean it, or were you just looking out for your charter school? Take your kids to the Capitol and rally for full educational funding for ALL schools. That is what choice is, right? For everyone, not just you.
A Decatur Mom
8:06 am on Saturday, November 10, 2012
I agree that folks better look at overall funding for public education in Georgia. A slice of too small a pie may be better than no slice but both the pie and the slice are too small. And don't forget that high school is what makes or breaks a student's future. Many charter schools end at 5th or 6th or 8th grade. You better start working on improving and supporting your local public high school now. Your children won't be in a bubble forever. Even if you find a protected place for them to go to school, teens find friends all over. And then they move out of the home. If you have only worried about your child's bubble and not the world around them, they are doomed because you cannot bubblewrap them forever.
Mr. B
8:38 am on Monday, November 12, 2012
High schools may make or break a students future, however, if they can't read by the time they get there, they don't have much chance.
Martin Selwin
9:51 am on Monday, November 12, 2012
I'm very surprised that folks with a stated belief in smaller government and more local control of everything would have embraced this amendment. All it does is remove approval for new charter schools from the locals and turn it over to a state board compose of political appointees. The main proponents of this amendment were the for-profit school organizations and lobbyists. It may be overturned in court, and, if so, perhaps we can have an honestly worded description upon which we can vote. In all the yammering above, I've yet to see a single argument in favor of losing local control. I think there are too many people in Georgia (and in the country as a whole) who have been taken in by one phony ideology or another. As a general rule of thumb, when someone is using misleading language and asking you to vote blindly, they're crooks. They might be portraying themselves as "conservatives" or "liberals" or "libertarians," or "populists," but they're liars and crooks, and they inhabit in part all the political spectra. Forget the ideology, find out the facts, see who is behind the push for an change, and think skeptically. The greatest scoundrels cloak themselves in the most glorious language and will try to smother dissension by portraying self-serving motives as patriotic or religious or populist or in defense of freedom.
9:56 am on Monday, November 12, 2012
"I'm very surprised that folks with a stated belief in smaller government and more local control of everything would have embraced this amendment."
You shouldn't be. It illustrates how bad most local school boards are.
Steely Dan
10:13 am on Monday, November 12, 2012
I'm very surprised that folks who ask others to 'find out the facts' are themselves so misinformed about Amendment 1.
Nowhere in Amendment 1 is approval for charter schools removed from the local boards. Rather, it provides an appeals process for when local boards deny charters. Local control isn't lost.
In the scenario where a local board denies a charter petition that is subsequently approved by the new state charter commission, not a single dime of local $$$ would go towards the funding of that new school. Local money isn't lost.
Such a school would not be overseen by a local board but why would the local board care, as it already denied the passage of the charter.
Such a school would be filled with children of parents whose property tax $$$ still wouldn't be spent on education of their own child.
The folks begging people to blindly vote NO are the ones mainly responsible for the educational mess we're in right now. Of course they want blind approval of the continuation of their squandering of billions of educational tax $$ each year.
The greatest scoundrels cloak themselves as victims and wrap themselves in shrouds of mediocrity, all so that the flow of tax $$$ into a broken system will continue without accountability. The greatest of scoundrels decry such accountability - like roaches, they want to run & hide when the lights are turned on.
North Georgia Weather
1:03 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Great post Martin and very true.
And Dan... who is hiding what? You always talk about lack of accountability, you have no idea how little accountability these new charters will really have. and did you know that the old state charter commission itself declined 76 percent of applications that had previously been turned down by local districts for charter schools?
Marsi Thrash
12:13 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
I am astounded by the apathy and downright rejection of the educational system by non-parents. School systems have a direct correlation to property values. Not to mention the overall well-being of a community, county and state. It behooves economic development because communities can attract businesses to Georgia by having an attractive educational system. Georgia does not have educational system to envy by any stretch. It's time to come into the 21st century!
Mike payne
5:50 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Steely Dan,
We won they lost (and it was not even close), no need to waste your time arguing with the earth is flat crowd. It feels better to just feel sorry for them rather than debate them. All they have is emotion and scare tactics on their side and the election results proved nobody is buying what they are selling, anymore.
Common Sense
8:22 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Wow, Mike! Your post sounds like you really have ALL kids at heart. I can rest a little easier tonight knowing I've got such valiant educational warriors like you and Steely Dan looking out for my kid in traditional public school... NOT!
'We won, they lost!' What are you, 5 years old?
8:33 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Common Sense, what do you expect from adults these days? These are the same idiots that think ANYONE won after electing Obama again.
This nation is screwed! Democrats spew hatred, racism and division and that is exactly how America is responding in every way.
Heil Obama And Power To The Liberal!
Tom Doolittle
10:13 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
Earth is flat crowd. You can count the number of issues where conservatives are the progressives on one hand. On the other hand, I have friends that have NEVER sided (never, not once, would eat their left arm first) with Republicans--except on this. I'd like to chalk it up to bipartisanship, big tents and common sense, but their are too many legitimate arguments on both sides to explain it. Gotta be something else...like confusing the fact that several metro jurisdictions are so corrupt, it trumps any legitimate discussion about the proposed law.
Debbie Pascoe
8:12 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012
And -- To overturn a popular vote, you would have to get a vote of 2/3 of both the house and the senate and then get another popular vote to overturn the amendment. Too wide a margin for any hope of that.
7:21 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Sorry, I'm a little late to the game, but why is there such fear mongering going on about charter schools? If the school district is doing their jobs, there would be no reason or need for alternative education institutions. Coming from 2 different states in areas that had the option, I saw a huge difference in quality of the education coming from a charter system, vs the public education in that given area, namely because of the core teaching curriculum and methods/philosophies. As a parent, I want the best education opportunities for my child, and judging from the vote tally, I am not alone.
For those spouting doom and gloom, I suggest you educate yourselves about the charter system, because there are several. I also think you need to look past your own prejudices about what you "think" it is about, and look at the success of the program in area that have undergone the choice. Speak about corruption all you want but it is no different than what we already deal with in our current system, which seems to already ask for a dollar every chance they get.
Mike payne
9:05 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Common sense,
Maybe you should try looking out for your kid first, please do not count on other people to do that, unless you like being disappointed. I wanted options for my kids so I went out and found a charter school and it was the best thing for them. The people of Cherokee spoke loud and clear and we chose not to leave Janet Read and Dr. P as the gate keepers of how we educate our kids. And watching Mike Chapman kick and scream on his way out is icing on the cake.
Tom Doolittle
9:21 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
This didn't take long--http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/dunwoody-push-separate-school-district/nS9fX/
So why is this headline under an article for charter schools? The people who voted for uncontrolled, proliferated CharterGeddon have no idea what the unintended consequencws will be This is just one--I'll bet very few people considered this--nor any other seemingly unrelated issue.
MA Evans
9:34 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
This isn't the unintended consequence but the intended consequence. A lot of people considered this and that's why they wanted the amendment to pass. Let's just hope it's challenged in court and overturned.
Steely Dan
9:41 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
If I had a child in the miserable, thoroughly-corrupt, completely-inept Dekalb Cty School District, I'd want the hell out of there too!
Good for these parents for caring enough to try to make a difference on their children's education. Anyone paying any attention to Dekalb County knows what a complete hellhole that district is. The near-2:1 margins of YES votes for A1 in Dekalb Cty (which went heavily pro Obama) prove beyond a doubt that Dekalb parents are well-aware of the disasters of GA public schools and that American taxpayers both D & R are fed up with the status quo.
What kind of people want to stand in a parent's way of a better education? What kind of people want to keep children trapped in failing schools?
Tom Doolittle
10:01 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Every parent--every school zone--every neighborhood--every child? Heck--the Dunwoody schools were some of the most successful in the state. Also, this won't be a "public" system. I can see an accountability nightmare when the system is essentially privatized. When charter clusters were introduced by Dan Weber, everyone thought he was talking about managing the existing public schools. I'm willing to bet none of the existing schools will be operated with public employees. This will be the first "system" completely relegated to private interests.
Very few people argue the need for charter schools in specialized circumstances, but obviously CharterGeddon is an unmanageable idea.
Steely Dan
10:12 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Charter schools are the perfect answer to the unfolding disaster that is the Dekalb Cty School District. Only a complete fool would want their children in a district that generates headlines like these:
These headlines are the epitome of GA public education though. It's why 2 million GA voters voted for a change to this joke of a system!
Again, anyone who defends this system and heaps disdain onto parents wanting something better for their children's education is completely out of touch with reality and is only interested in protecting a clearly-failed status quo.
Tom Doolittle
10:40 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Yes Steely--you're correct. The vote was very inflluenced by news about DeKalb, Clayton and City of Atlanta. The rest of the state must have tired from all of the page space dedicated to five years of three-county coverage--or perhaps the press did a good enough job of spicing things up to keep people interested. How about you, Oconee and other Patches, want to weigh in on how the DeKalb news affected you?
Steely Dan
11:52 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Actually Tom, I think the vote was very influenced by years and years of sub-standard education being received by the children of millions of GA voters.
The NO crowd made 2 mistakes during the A1 debates: They wrongly assumed that people in GA were satisfied with the quality of GA public education and they wrongly assumed that people would blindly follow the electoral advice of the very people who'd help cause much of this sub-standard quality: Local & State superintendents - all of whom spent time campaigning against A1's passage. 2 million GA voters paid no attention to the advice of these contractors.
Hopefully, these mandate, landslide numbers will make these superintendents do the job they're being contracted to, rather than wasting taxpayer $$ lobbying against measures that the public resoundingly is in favor of. They need to stick to being school superintendents, not political lobbyists.
The people have spoken. The NO people who still think this will be overturned expose their ignorance to the process that would be required to pull that off. (See Ms Pascoe's description of that above) In hindsight, I think it's the NO crowd who didn't read the ballot's wording correctly, seeing how wrong they were on every single other aspect of the A1 debate and landslide victory.
North Georgia Weather
12:12 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Maybe your school system is bad...
Pub Ed is Broken
3:36 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Wow, I cant follow your logic Tom. Looks like this is the EXACT consequence we want from the new ammendment. How people continue to defend an outdated and corrupt school system is beyond me.
Tom Doolittle
5:03 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
The original reference I made was about the new city of Dunwoody proposing its own (as in owning the Legislature) school system, which unless they simply re-hire public employees will be entirely made up of charter schools. No--that's not the EXACT consequence anyone ever envisioned with the new law--nor was it ever envisioned by the public when Dunwoody Senator Dan Weber proposed "charter clusters" (most people surely thought he meant existing public schools guided differently by community).
In fact, I'm betting "charter clusters" made up entirely with privatized schools, will be seen as overreach (especially for a city that has only existed for two years) when one itemizes the implications--no time for that now and I'll wait until the article is done via Patch.


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text:
New Drug Claims It Can't Be Used to Make Meth
By: Gretchen Bolander
Updated: December 6, 2012
JOPLIN, MO-- There could soon be a new development in Joplin's prescription-only requirement for pseudoephedrine, or PSE. A Missouri company claims to have come up with a PSE based drug that can't be used to make methamphetamines. The St. Louis drug maker says its product has a different chemical reaction than other versions that would interfere with the meth making process.
Joplin Police Chief Lane Roberts says he'll track progress of the new development. "We could certainly look at the idea of making an exemption for that product. Obviously it's premature not knowing what the products are and what analysis we should be looking at. But I can tell you that the sole purpose of that ordinance was to prevent people from using pseudoephedrine to make meth."
Pharmacies we spoke with said they don't yet carry the new drug but are tracking the progress of testing to see when it's commercially available.


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i am making this friendship bracelet quilt for my daughter, who absolutely loved making them as a kid. | |||
i noticed the grey part of the bracelet is a light grey gingham. i cannot find this.This message has been edited. Last edited by: mandylifeboats, | ||||
i did find something similar but i am not sure it will be the right fabric when it is cut up. what do u think? http://tinyurl.com/8bpzba6 | ||||
very cool! lucky daughter! | ||||
That is a lovely quilt and it will mean so much to your DD because of the memories. And, I like that it used traditional blocks in a different way. www.floridafarmgirlsworld.blogspot.com Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain. | ||||
That's a beautiful quilt. She will love it forever. Nicki We live in the home of the free...because of the brave. | ||||
cute quilt! i think the grey you found will work, it'll just add a little more movement in the grey area which will work fine with the 'braids'. I teach jewelry making during the summer and the friendship bracelets are a perpetual favorite. Since there are only a jazillion different ways to make them YOUR braid can be a little different if you want it to I can't wait to see how it turns out! | ||||
What a cute idea. And so bright and colorful! Please leave a comment on one of my blogs....go to http://shogunsworld.blogspot.com/ or http://rememberingmadison.blogspot.com/ | ||||
Nice idea!! | ||||
This is a very nice quilt idea!! And nice and bright, happy, sunshiney, makes you feel good looking at it!!! I think you should send this idea (if it yours!) to your fav. quilt magazine and share this idea - who knows!! You could be published! I know I would be thinking of making one myself for that special friend!!! Love this!!! Great Job!! And YES, the grey will work!!! | ||||
Mandy...great idea...the grey can be anything you want it to be...I think a tone on tone or the one you found will work fine. Since I constantly look for Lt. grey fabrics,I know it can be a challenge to find it. May "In Michigan" | ||||
it is not my original design. i actually purchased the PDF pattern from this gal http://www.notyourrunofthemill.com/ ok, thanks for your input. grey gingham seems to be a hard item to find. | ||||
Grey was the color my mom always wanted to find, not too dark or too light, but just right. I was glad when we found just the right shade of grey in the shoe that she could wear. We searched for months and had a great time doing it. (I know OT, but the grey search reminded me of Mom, I miss her) I'm sure that grey you found will be a great substitute, I checked my stash not the right color gingham. Have fun making this cute quilt. | ||||
OH!! Now that is just tooooo darn C~U~T~E!!!!!!!!!!!! The gray looks ok to me, too! I think I still have some friendship braclets tha MY DD made when she was younger!! They are still very popular!! ****************************** Take time for kindness & for giving. Take time for friends & happy living! **************************** | ||||
Definitely a nice quilt! Sherry Does this hat make my butt look big? www.keepyouinstitches.blogspot.com http://s193.photobucket.com/al...9/keepyouinstitches/ www.friendsofthedaingerfieldpu...library.blogspot.com | ||||
after i order the half yard at the place above at $6.95/yd, someone on twitter found me the gray gingham here and it was $8.95 yd. i only needed a half yard so i think i am good. http://www.hawthornethreads.co...e_up/gingham_in_gray | ||||
That is a cute pattern. Nicely done!!!! | ||||
Thank-you for sending me to that blog!! Way to much fun and yes, the original quilt is there!!! good find, fun quilt!! | ||||
i need u all to encourage me to actually finish this quilt. i start so many projects and go to the next but i want to give it to her for christmas. so every once in awhile, ask me how it is going. maybe i could post pics of its progress. | ||||
Mandy. I will ask you every time I think of it. | ||||
ok Catwmn27 | ||||
I completely understand the starting so many project issue!!! So, yes, I will ask about it!! And my trick is to sew 20 min a day. Granted, I just took the summer off - no reason, just did and am now playing catch up on my time {I write a little '20' in the bottom left hand corner of all the days on my calender... then when I sew that day, I cross it off. No sewing, no mark on the 20. I can catch up anytime I want, but it makes me realize that I haven't sewn, and for how long. Today, I just managed to mark off the whole month of June!! Now, I need to sew through July and August and up until Sept 10th!!! And you know what? I will!!} So, since this is a gift and it has to be done by a certain date - just have fun and work on it as much as you can. When you feel the urge to start another thing - ask yourself, is this helping or hindering my plan??? When I ask myself that, I usually stick to my agenda!! But it is such a temptation to pull out something to make a new item.... or in my case, to create another UFO!!! : A habit I really have to change!!! We will keep you on track because we want to see this quilt finished!!! | ||||
thanks for the encouragement L.L.! | ||||
LOL...I have about 20 "something new to do" in my quilting mess...SIGH will I ever learn,if I don't have time to finish one how will I ever get all the new ideas done..... May "In Michigan" | ||||
(but that 'starting something new' habit is so much fun....) common ladies and gents!! We can finish our starts!!! can't we??? | ||||
yes we can!! | ||||
Oh what a cute quilt that is!!! If I don't sew every day I get real grumpy. "It's bad to supress laughter. It goes back down and spreads to your hips." | ||||
I'm doing good to get 2 - 3 "sessions" in a week. Sometimes 1/2 hour, sometimes a litte more, if it wasn't in the basement it might be different, OK, it wouldn't - cross that excuse off the list | ||||
Well, here is a update on projects and getting them done: Went to a Stiches Alive Festival this weekend, and shopped! : I had fun and with the other stuff I brought home, I also brough home a kit! (like I needed like a hole in the head, but anyways....) this was Friday. On Sunday, I pulled it out of it's wrapping and by that night, I had the center done, Monday, border on!!! I have a quilt TOP!!! Not 1/2 done, loose blks waiting - I finished it!!! Now to get it quilted and out of that room!!! Binding is already waiting to be sewn on!!! Since then, I have gone to a planning meeting and (stupidly!!! ) got myself into a 'tell people about Bonnie Hunters leader/ender idea and what to do with those small pieces we end up with..... So today I sewed samples.... and found a stack of star blks my guild had done as a group and shared... They are now sewn together - in pairs, some in bigger pieces, but I have that one almost done too!! Am thinking if I should just call it 'done' or put on a border or two????? Not sure, but I am feeling good about not letting these things sit anymore. I want this feeling to stay with me. I have tons of things 1/2 done. I like the feeling of DONE better then, "what is this" and "what was I thinking????" Hope you are sewing up a masterpiece in your area too!!! Each stitch you sew is one stitch closer to the finish line!!!! Keep having fun, and no getting grumpy Nancy!!! So go sew!!!! This message has been edited. Last edited by: L.L., | ||||
i am still gathering my fabric for the friendship bracelet quilt.... | ||||
This is so lovely quilt. | ||||
Beautiful quilting. | ||||
cute nickname monaliza! | ||||
uh oh, I almost did my bad habit again.... was on my mind till I re-read this post..... Now, to get back to my finishing my project (again) (well, as many times as it takes I guess.... Make October a great month everyone!! Have fun sewing in the winter!!! | ||||
still haven't started my quilt.... | ||||
Very cute and what a nice idea!!!! Sew, sew, and sew some more that's my motto! | ||||
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text:
LAPD apologizes to family of rapper Notorious B.I.G. for autopsy release
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Police detectives apologized to the family of Notorious B.I.G. for failing to warn them about the planned release of his autopsy report more than 15 years after he died in a drive-by shooting, the Los Angeles Police Department said Saturday.
The detectives had intended to notify the rapper's family, but the report was released prematurely "due to an administrative error," the department said in a statement.
"Our detectives personally spoke with the Wallace family (Friday) night, and apologized for not notifying them prior to the release" said Capt. Billy Hayes, who heads LAPD's Robbery-Homicide Division, which is investigating the killing. "Obviously this has been a challenging case for us to solve. We hope that witnesses or other people with information will come forward and give us the clues we need to solve this case."
Los Angeles County's Chief Coroner Investigator Craig Harvey said a security hold placed on the report's release was lifted last week. The 23-page report revealed the rapper, whose real name was Christopher Wallace, was hit by four bullets after leaving a music industry event in March 1997, but one that hit his heart, left lung and colon caused his death.
The attorney for the rapper's family complained Friday that he was not given any notice that the report would be released and criticized police for not closing one of Los Angeles' highest-profile unsolved murders.
Both Los Angeles police and the FBI investigated Wallace's killing, which came just months after another rap superstar, Tupac Shakur, was gunned down in Las Vegas. The FBI looked into whether any Los Angeles police officers were involved in Wallace's shooting.
The deaths of Wallace and Shakur have been the subject of rampant speculation about the motives. The one-time friends became rivals and instigators in an East Coast-West Coast rap rivalry during the mid-1990s.
A 2011 book by former Los Angeles police detective Greg Kading claimed both murders had been solved, although no arrests have been made and federal prosecutors in 2005 declined to file charges after a lengthy, bi-coastal investigation. Wallace is from the New York City borough of Brooklyn.
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Thursday, August 25, 2011
words worth reading
Sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You've got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle.
Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
Sources: 1, 2
16 comments:
- SomeKindOfStyle said...
such true words, indeed! and most important to follow in life! xoxo
Might wanna win this lovely "Goodie" Bag of your choice?
Spread the word if you like!
xoxo - August 25, 2011 at 7:11 AM
- marissa at the boot said...
that is truly awesome. "don't be trapped by dogma" needs to be a bumper sticker, i love it.
- August 25, 2011 at 7:49 AM
These are very true and intelligent words!
- August 25, 2011 at 7:55 AM
- Liz {Sequins And Stripes} said...
so inspiring! I was somewhat heartbroken when I heard he resigned last night.
- August 25, 2011 at 7:56 AM
- Nastassja said...
what an awesome, inspiring post. In fact, the entire blog is inspiring!
www.mrsrogero.blogspot.com - August 25, 2011 at 8:29 AM
- jen @ design blossom said...
What an amazing speech. Thanks for posting these inspiring words!
- August 25, 2011 at 8:40 AM
- siddathornton said...
such inspiring, comforting, & true words. words i need to remember, as i tend to over-analyze my career & second-guess myself. thank you so much for sharing!
- August 25, 2011 at 10:03 AM
- AM said...
This is such a great excerpt - thanks for sharing! I need to print and post this on my wall :)
Ann Marie
www.believewishes.com - August 25, 2011 at 10:22 AM
- Maura said...
amazing! i needed this today! thanks for sharing
- August 25, 2011 at 10:30 AM
- Samantha said...
absolutely love this!
sami - August 25, 2011 at 10:50 AM
- Jada said...
I love commencement speeches! They are so inspiring and powerful. Steve Jobs def. speaks the truth here.
Minestrone Soup For the Teenage Soul - August 25, 2011 at 10:55 AM
- Ashley Fine said...
So true and so inspiring! Thanks for posting:)
- August 25, 2011 at 2:35 PM
- victoria | vmac+cheese said...
Thank you so much for sharing this... great wisdom, even though it's not always easy to follow. Steve Jobs is such an inspiration on so many levels!
- August 25, 2011 at 4:05 PM
- Kimberlee @ Brown Button said...
Brilliant words. I think i'll have to write them down and refer to them regularly! x
- August 25, 2011 at 11:04 PM
- Charlotta Ward said...
What a powerful post. I feel totally inspired by it and wanted to say thank you for sharing it with us.
Have a brilliant weekend.
x Charlotta
Space for Inspiration - August 26, 2011 at 4:47 PM
- Basil B said...
Imagine leaving university to start a new chapter in your life with those words ringing in your ears..... Some 12 years after my own graduation and they're as true to me today as they would have been then! Thanks for sharing x
www.basilbe.blogspot.com - September 1, 2011 at 8:01 AM


text:
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Synopsys invites you to join us for highly informative sessions covering the latest design trends, challenges and solutions. Listen to leading industry experts present best practices and their success with Synopsys implementation products. Learn how customers have accelerated innovation for their Gigascale, GigaHz+, low power and advanced geometry design challenges. If you are a design engineer or manager, you won't want to miss these special events.
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Jun 03-04, 2013
PrimeTime SIG Dinner: Technology Panel - Advanced ECO Methodology
The event will feature a technology panel of timing leaders from various fields. Panelists will share their vision and experience on advanced ECO methodologies that accelerates design closure on the most advanced technology nodes. After the panel session and dinner, please join us for our Meet & Greet, dessert, drinks, prize drawings and entertainment by Lincoln Durham.
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This event will feature a technology panel of timing leaders from various fields. Panelists will share their vision and experience on advanced ECO methodologies that accelerates design closure on the most advanced technology nodes. There will be a Question and Answer session at the end of the presentations for direct panelist-audience interaction. This event is open to Synopsys PrimeTime users and engineering managers.
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Synopsys invites you to join us at PCI-SIG for highly informative sessions covering the latest design trends, challenges and solutions. Plan on attending our technical presentations titled "PCI Express' New Low Power Modes Driving Tablets, Cloud" and "Migrating PCIe Designs to M-PCIe". Stop by our booth to see how to accelerate your design with Synopsys DesignWare IP for PCI Express.
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The E/E decision-makers of OEMs, suppliers and service providers meet for one of their most important industry get-togethers for the 17th International ConferenceAdvances in Automotive Electronics. In the year 2013, the focus is on technical presentations in the areas of electromobility, architectures, advanced driver assistance systems, connectivity and HMI.
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The D43D workshop brings together key players from semiconductor companies, system design houses and the EDA industry to build a vision of the next step in 3D IC design. Topics addressed include: applications requiring 3D, interconnect architectures and thermal management for 3D ICs, application partitioning, floorplanning for 3D architectures, modeling, characterization and testing for 3D ICs.
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Wormed is a band that has unearthed some serious fucking sickness in a fresh new concept that has never been seen to this extent in the world of brutal death metal. Let me start out by giving you an idea of their idea: Wormed has come to the realization that we are miniscule creatures in a vast universe that sees us as exactly that. Exploring the brute natural forces in space and portals to other dimensions, they present their ideas in highly educated and scholarly researched forms and fuse them w/ some of the most brutal fucking slam grooves and ultra-guttural vox ever.
First thing you'll notice is the very unorthodox cover art and professional insert layout of the disc. There is not a trace of traditional gore in sight, whether it be in image or words. Reading the lyrics is like reading any book by Stephen Hawking. It is a "galactic journey" that does a much better job of instilling any kind of fear or emotion than gore because #1: It swiftly takes you to a completely different plane of existence, and #2: It opens your eyes to the vast power and nature in a violent universe. This trip is going to start out w/ "Tunnel of Ions". First few things I noticed were a crunchy as phuck guitar tone and that bass is actually being used as an instrument, as opposed to just following along supporting massive detuned power chords. The guitarwerk gives the music a spacey feel right off the bat. The music itself is technikill in a "loose" sort of way, flowing from point A to point B, encouraging the listener to keep a close eye and ear as to what's going on. Drum sound is very good, w/ a kick drum that packs solid punch and a tight snare that maintains a "latin" feel if you will. As I mentioned vox are unbelievably low and take you to new depths of depravity. Tunnel of Ions is a brilliantly structured song that slams you from ceiling to floor w/out warning. At the 1:30 mark it unexpectedly goes into a riff that truly defines the word "lurching". Just giving you a taste, they retreat to the mainframe of the song, then at 3:00 return to the lurcher, but slow it down even more to crawling pace. Holey headbanging mania! Careful not to overuse riffing, they leave it quickly and thus berthing the rewind factor. "Geodesic Dome" is another monster mosher of Spanish sickness. The bulk of this song is unbelievable heavy. Starting out w/ speedy chunk chords and struggling natural harmonics, it almost breaks to a Cryptopsy-esque string-slap, then prepare for the wrecking ball at 1:56. Guitars berst chunk then suddenly stop while "Phlegeton" sustains his immense guttural growl. Resume sickness w/ a surprising free-jazz break w/ spoken werd underneath. The song ends out w/ the heavy as hell open chord abuse. "Voxel Mitosis" has genius touches of latin drumming and very interesting bass lines. "Ylem" could quite possibly be the flagship of the album in terms of concept & heaviness. Jumping out of the gate w/ a semi-polyrhythmic riff that drums follow w/ a very odd-time beat (think Fear Factory's "Obsolete" beat), it proceeds to a super-grind-athon mid-point that just churns out "I am Ylem". Lyrix to this song are superb. By the time "Planispherium" rolls around, your cranial capacity to absorb Wormed's angle of attack has exceeded it's limit. More amazing gutter-crunch slam grooves w/ supporting hyper-speed double kick underneath will have the grimace on you in no time flat. "Pulses in Rhombus Forms"..Man, do these super-slams ever end? The highlight of this song is actually not the chunk break, but the escalating emotional guitar whirlwind vortex at midpoint. "Dehydrating" employs creative use of "harmonizing" and layering guttural vocals, proving you can werk w/ more than one level of vocals down in the pig-grunt area.
Wormed is a band w/ undeniable potential and could very well change the face value of brutal death. I see very good things in the future for this band provided they "stick to their guns" w/ their very refreshing and in-depth plunge into the cosmic world and equally refreshing latin type feel to their percussive work in their weighty blast of brutal death.
Werds of caution to lots of you however: This is not for your every-day metal fan. The sheer ultra-brutal status and ultra-ill vox may be enough to shun away fans of happy-go-lucky melodick death, and power metal and black metal fans you can look elsewhere. Without a doubt, Wormed is for fans of the "extreme" punishment factor.


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Consumer Reviews of DUCANE central air conditioners
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Satisfaction Rating:
Our system has worked perfectly for 11 years and the condensor fan just went out the other day. A $135 dollar fix and we are back in business. Thanks!
Location: Williamstown, NJ
Satisfaction Rating:
"ac 12b30 a"
Works great since 2006! Never had any problems.
Satisfaction Rating:
Have 95% eff. furnace w/ 12 seer condenser for my house that is 10 years old. The units have never been serviced! I was in the business for thirty years, installed thousands of units. 90 percent of my service call backs were from my guys doing some thing wrong. Once or twice I miss- matched the wrong parts, (maybe several times).
Years owned: 5
Satisfaction Rating:
"Ducane WINS"
I had one issue. It was from installer incompetence. The condenser unit was miswired when placed into service. It caused my condenser fan to blow out. Otherwise, it has been awesome. DUCANE is great. 2005 and going strong. Most BAD reviews on here are from INSTALLER incompetence.
Years owned: 8
Satisfaction Rating:
"Owener/ Service Tech."
92% Furnace/13seer a/c system, Have always work great, I'm a Commercial hvac service tech and install Ducane equipment on the side, after reading the comments on this site I felt compelled to reply. "good service" is the name of the game, all the problems that were listed so far are service/installation related. Do your homework, ask the dealer for referances, ask your neighbors, In 8 years I've never had a repair/service call for any of my own installs. Also Commercial Equipment isn't warrantied the same as residential. If you don't get good service from the install company, don't wait around, keep looking were out there. Good Luck
Location: Belvedere, IL
Years owned: 2
Satisfaction Rating:
"Mr. K. Reididnger"
Installed new 80% variable speed furnace and 13 S.E.E.R. Air conditioner. Could not be happeier. looked at 14 S.E.er. and 15 also but my savings here in illinois over 5 years was only $80.00 when you compared 13 seer to 14 seer. So that related to only $16.00 per year savings for 14seer over 13seer. Cost difference between 13 and 14 seer I would never re-coup my money. Looks like anything above 13 S.E.E.R. should not even be offered in Illinois
Location: south jersey
Years owned: 5
Satisfaction Rating:
I have been a contractor in the Nj area for quite some tie now. I only offer Ducane because I beleive in the technology they use. most systems try to stay state of the art and get lost in warrenty claims because new technology is never flawless. I want to say for the most part that the reviews given on this website are the result of poor service, I only wish this trade wasnt flooded with companies that ( regardless of how big they are ) dont back up there work. My only message is shame on them.... good luck everybody. sorry for your troubles. Bryan sigmund
The opinions expressed in these reviews are the opinions of consumers that submitted reviews to FurnaceCompare.com. They do not necessarily represent the opinions of FurnaceCompare.com.