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The Community of Disc Golfers and About All Things Disc Golf
I've been using a 2004 Super Roc, very stable Rancho. I use a 2005 SB Roc for short drives, holds hyzer well. I beleive that one is an Ontario.
Best disc ever made.
My favorite disc is a very old seasoned ontario dx roc,for some reason this disc has held on to the flight path real well even after 8 years of heavy use,i also throw a star san marino and it works great on those windy days when you need a little more stability.
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© 2013 Created by Terry "the Pirate" Calhoun.


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We recently stayed at this Red Roof to be close to Ann Arbor for our daughters graduation. What a mess - the main bed area was clean but the bathroom, external sink/counter area was filthy and the lights over the bed didn't work. We didn't have many options since we checked in quite late and every other area hotel was... More
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We have heard commisioners of sport use the term above whenever they want to do something that might not be popular. The comissioners have perpetrated the charade for years that they are stewards and protectors of the games...that they are the fan's voice and will make decisions in a wise and measured manner to keep the games humming along. What a crock. The commissioners are employees of the owners. They do the owners bidding. And it has never been clearer than right now in both the NHL & NFL. How many weeks of these hopeless replacement officials do we have to endure before Roger Goodell throws in his worthless cards in the dispute with the regular men in stripes. To put a multi-billion dollar industry at risk( and it is at risk...fans are furious...players are pissed... coaches are'nt even hiding their disdain anymore...and tv announcers are openly mocking the hapless efforts of the scabs) over what amounts to pennies on the dollar is so ludicrous that it doesnt even merit an argument. The only thing keeping Roger Goodell from having the title of most worthless comissioner is the reign of ineptitude that Gary Bettman has laid on the National Hockey League.
The NFL Players Association has finally broken their silence and said that the league has to settle with the regular officials and soon. Before this season becomes anymore ridculous then it has already.
The Packers & Seahawks tonight on Monday Night Football. It has seemed forever since the Packers have played. It will be interesting to see the Packer D try and contain Russell Wilson.. Packer Game Day begins at 5pm on WSAU
The Brewers are 2 1/2 back going into the final week & a half of the season. They are the only team in the arce that finishes with six straight at home. Let's see if they can stay in it for the next four...today in Washington (11:30 on WSAU) and then three in Cincinnatti.
Had a real good time with some old friends playing Trivia Unplugged in Stevens Point on Saturday. It was a fundraiser for the Portage County Arts Council and put on by the Trivia folks at 90fm WWSP. This event features no books or electronic devices...only your combined brains. We finished 5th out of 26 teams. I was able to contribute a few key answers but let an Arnold Horshak question get away that is going to bug me until next year.
It's my wife Sandy and my 29th wedding anniversery today. Thanks for her support in allowing me to work in this business for this long and also spend my summers coaching Legion baseball!
Songs of The Day (from my I-pod)
Kid-Pretenders (1979) one of their early ones. You can have all your half-baked pop tarts and preening diva's, Chrissie Hynde was one bad mutha!
Kiddio-Brooke Benton (1960) one smooth operator. He's an R & B treasure


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Decent-sized room, adequate bathroom, good selection of television channels. Breakfast very modest. Pleasant staff. Apparently secure. Close to Las Vegas Bl. and frequent buses to The Strip. The adjacent shopping center is mostly vacant. Not far from monorail station and convention center.
- Also Known As:
- Rodeway Hotel
- Rodeway Hotel Las Vegas
- Rodeway Inn Las Vegas
- Las Vegas Rodeway Inn


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Au Cheval
Au Cheval is not your typical greasy spoon diner. It's house-made foods, creative interpretations on classic dishes, and comfortable, easy-going atmosphere— It's big cozy eats. Playful takes on old-school favorites like a fried bologna sandwich, or a pork porterhouse are all made to order, before your eyes in the open kitchen. At the bar, 30+ international beers on tap, speciality cocktails, and a rockin' wine list make Au Cheval an inviting place to kick back. And we haven't even touched on the custom crafted music... yet. Come in and check it out. Hours and Contact info is in our "Nitty Gritty" section. To see an current list of our beers on tap, check out our "Beers on Tap" section.
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Colored kernel message output Let's work more on Linux's cuteness! [http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/10/4/431] The following patch makes it possible to give kernel messages a selectable color which helps to distinguish it from other noise, such as boot messages. NetBSD has it, OpenBSD has it, FreeBSD to some extent, so I think Linux should too. Inspired by cko (http://freshmeat.net/p/cko/), but independently written, later contributed forth and back. Already posted at: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/1/162 Signed-off-by: Jan Engelhardt <email@example.com> --- drivers/char/Kconfig | 29 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ drivers/char/vt.c | 14 ++++++++++++++ 2 files changed, 43 insertions(+) Index: linux-2.6.23/drivers/char/Kconfig =================================================================== --- linux-2.6.23.orig/drivers/char/Kconfig +++ linux-2.6.23/drivers/char/Kconfig @@ -58,6 +58,35 @@ config VT_CONSOLE If unsure, say Y. +config VT_PRINTK_COLOR + hex "Colored kernel message output" + range 0x00 0xFF + depends on VT_CONSOLE + default 0x17 + ---help--- + This option will give you ability to change the color of + kernel messages printed to the console. + + The value you need to enter here is the ASCII color value + composed (OR'ed) by one foreground color, one background + color and any number of attributes as follows: + + Foreground: + 0x00=black, 0x01=blue, 0x02=green, 0x03=green, + 0x04=red, 0x05=magenta, 0x06=brown, 0x07=gray + + Background: + 0x00=black, 0x10=blue, 0x20=green, 0x30=green, + 0x40=red, 0x50=magenta, 0x60=brown, 0x70=gray + + Attributes: + 0x08=highlight foreground + + Thus, 0x17 will yield gray-on-blue like in OpenBSD and + 0x02 green-on-black like in NetBSD. + Using "highlight foreground" is said not work when you use + VGA Console (Framebuffer not affected) with a 512-glyph font. + config HW_CONSOLE bool depends on VT && !S390 && !UML Index: ...
Shouldn't the default at least be what we already had? Somehow grey on blue sounds pretty hard to read to me. -- Len Sorensen -
Indeed it should be 0x07, should it go in. Otherwise the openbsd camp might start another flamewar. (On a personal note, would 0x1F work better for you?) -
No, I actually find most things hard to read on a blue background. Besides black uses less power on a CRT (and probably OLED as well) monitor. LCDs probably don't care. :) -- Len Sorensen -
Ah you seem to be a proponent of http://www.blackgoogle.com/ then :-) Unfortunately, it seems like Xft uses Grayscale AA (http://antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/index.html) so black background make the font look thinner. -
I was mainly thinking someone with a server with a screen showing their console might like to not make too much heat in the server room. Google can be solved by simply closing the browser window. :) -- Len Sorensen -
"Ha, ok, I see where you're going with this one." This patch is perfectly suited to reduce heat at home and in the server room, especially during kernel development and debugging, but the average kernel usage already pays off. Just add vt.printk_color=0x08 and all your kernel messages and oopses will be printed using low-power electrons. Extremely useful on SGI Altix 4700, which does print a lot (number of CPU cores), or SunFire X4500 (number of disks). Even if not using one of these systems, CKO can contribute to the lower power usage of PetaBox™ [http://www.archive.org/web/petabox.php]... ;-) -
I like it. A somewhat related nice feature would be to print different loglevels with different colors. Cheers, Emil. -
I'm certainly not a native English writer, though I think it should be "composed of" or maybe "composed from". I'd say "HF is known not to work with VGA console" or just "HF doesn't work with VGA console". I wonder how accurate is it. -- Krzysztof Halasa -
ANSI: \e[31m R-- \e[32m G-- \e[33m RG- (yellow) \e[34m --B \e[35m R-B (magenta) \e[36m -GB (cyan) \e[37m RGB (white) ASCII: 1 --B blue 2 -G- green 3 -GB cyan 4 R-- red ... e.g. just the other way around. 0x17 is gray-on-blue, what I use, Since I do not use 512-glyph fonts, I do not know. I suppose no, since that is what is written in the manpages or so. With FB where the hardware draws the font, I do not know either, I suppose yes. With FB where the software draws the font (read: fbiterm with CJK), it worked as usual, last time I tested. -
Actually I meant "how accurate my remarks are" :-) Not convinced WRT ASCII color codes, though. ASCII doesn't contain codes for changing colors. Perhaps some specific "extended ASCII"? -- Krzysztof Halasa -
Start up QBasic, issue COLOR 1 => blue. Apply said patch, issue vt.printk_color=0x01 => you get what? So! :) -
What we see here might not be "ASCII", but "VGA-specific color values". It's just that I call it ASCII since it's the mirrored opposite of ANSI. -
I see. Then perhaps "VGA color value" would be better. -- Krzysztof Halasa -
looks really good to me! Reviewed-by: Ingo Molnar <firstname.lastname@example.com> small nit: + vc->vc_color = printk_color; + update_attr(vc); that should be in a set_vc_color() function and the new code should do: + set_vc_color(vc, vc->vc_color); (and same at the other places that call update_attr() as well) feature request: would be interesting to have a color table (defined in the .config) dependent on message loglevel. That way KERN_CRIT messages could be red, KERN_INFO ones white, etc. Ingo -
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 01:08:35PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote: > feature request: would be interesting to have a color table (defined in > the .config) dependent on message loglevel. That way KERN_CRIT messages > could be red, KERN_INFO ones white, etc. If we do this, please let there be a CONFIG_ option to turn it off (and that should probably be the default too). Bootup text looking like a fruit salad doesn't really sound like something that will make debugging any easier. Dave -- http://www.codemonkey.org.uk -
This approach in GIGO-like, IMHO. Ugliness of (default) boot process messaging itself can and must be solved in the userspace. I don't know if anybody read sub-thread about size reduction by moving static printk string to userspace "message codes" (there were one more person than me, but still). The main problem, is the very narrow perspective of such "kernel" See? In the userspace one can make anything freely, try do it in the Linux kernel. With userspace {codes, messages} -> messages tool, any console printing frontend is possible. Of course, when kernel OOPes before or in early userspace, where nothing other than photo viva is Is it possible to have a macro for this, which will be `do { } while(0)' in case of "NO, thanks" configuration? -- -o--=O`C #oo'L O <___=E M -
I like it, although having a boot option would be nice (I have a friend with color perception issues). I start my root xterm in white on blue for identification, so color coding sounds like a great idea to me. -- Bill Davidsen <email@example.com> "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -
sysfs attributes can be set at boot time (and not only that). Here, try the "davej's salad" configuration :-) vt.default_red=0,192,128,170,0,170 vt.default_grn=0,0,170,128,64,0 vt.default_blu=0,0,0,0,128,128 This has nothing to do with xterms, this is "VGA color console" only. xterm config is in /usr/share/X11/app-defaults/XTerm-color. -
Try reparsing that... I said I use color coding in root xterm, so I am generally in favor of the color coding concept to make important messages obvious. Is that clearer? -- Bill Davidsen <firstname.lastname@example.com> "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -
Pretty interesting feature. I modified your lastest patch a little bit so now you can set the message color for each log level in the kernel config. diff -ruN linux-2.6.23.orig/arch/x86_64/kernel/early_printk.c linux-2.6.23/arch/x86_64/kernel/early_printk.c --- linux-2.6.23.orig/arch/x86_64/kernel/early_printk.c 2007-10-02 05:24:52.000000000 +0200 +++ linux-2.6.23/arch/x86_64/kernel/early_printk.c 2007-10-06 23:00:39.000000000 +0200 @@ -20,7 +20,8 @@ static int max_ypos = 25, max_xpos = 80; static int current_ypos = 25, current_xpos = 0; -static void early_vga_write(struct console *con, const char *str, unsigned n) +static void early_vga_write(struct console *con, const char *str, unsigned n, + unsigned int loglevel) { char c; int i, k, j; @@ -89,7 +90,8 @@ return timeout ? 0 : -1; } -static void early_serial_write(struct console *con, const char *s, unsigned n) +static void early_serial_write(struct console *con, const char *s, unsigned n, + unsigned int loglevel) { while (*s && n-- > 0) { if (*s == '\n') @@ -185,7 +187,8 @@ simnow_fd = simnow(XOPEN, (unsigned long)fn, O_WRONLY|O_APPEND|O_CREAT, 0644); } -static void simnow_write(struct console *con, const char *s, unsigned n) +static void simnow_write(struct console *con, const char *s, unsigned n, + unsigned int loglevel) { simnow(XWRITE, simnow_fd, (unsigned long)s, n); } @@ -209,7 +212,7 @@ va_start(ap,fmt); n = vscnprintf(buf,512,fmt,ap); - early_console->write(early_console,buf,n); + early_console->write(early_console, buf, n, 0); va_end(ap); } diff -ruN linux-2.6.23.orig/drivers/char/Kconfig linux-2.6.23/drivers/char/Kconfig --- linux-2.6.23.orig/drivers/char/Kconfig 2007-10-02 05:24:52.000000000 +0200 +++ linux-2.6.23/drivers/char/Kconfig 2007-10-06 23:06:55.000000000 +0200 @@ -58,6 +58,111 @@ If unsure, say Y. +config VT_CKO + bool "Colored kernel message ...


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Assistant Professor, International Affairs
Ph.D., Politics, University of London
M.A., Political Science, Northwestern University
Sean Jacobs, a native of Cape Town, South Africa, holds a Ph.D. in Politics from the University of London and a M.A. in Political Science from Northwestern University. He is currently writing a book on the intersection of mass media, globalization and liberal democracy in post-apartheid South Africa. He is co-editor of Thabo Mbeki's World: The Politics and Ideology of the South African President (Zed Books, 2002) and two other books. His most recent scholarly articles have appeared in Politique Africaine (2006) and Media, Culture, and Society (2007); and, is a regular contributor to the Guardian's Comment is Free site. Previously he taught African Studies as well as communication studies at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. He worked as a political researcher for the Institute for Democracy in South Africa, and founded Africa is a Country.
Africa and the West
Documenting International Affairs
View a list of Sean's publications here.
Milano School of International Affairs, Management, and Urban Policy66 West 12th Street, Room 622New York, NY 10011
212.206.3524 x2446


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Displaying review 1 Water Liliesby Claude MonetArt Print99 x 71 cm Item #: 324383
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Product InformationDissatisfied with the limitations of traditional art, Claude Monet (1840-1925) founded Impressionism. Along with Auguste Renoir and Camille Pissaro, he was a groundbreaking forerunner of the movement. His serene, classic series of water lily paintings, with their dreamlike atmosphere and vivid colors, continues to provide strong inspiration for abstract artists worldwide. This art print displays sharp, vivid images with a high degree of color accuracy. A member of the versatile family of art prints, this high-quality reproduction represents the best of both worlds: quality and affordability. Art prints are created on paper similar to that of a postcard or greeting card using a digital or offset lithography press. About the ArtistClaude Monet (1840 – 1926) pioneered Impressionism, profoundly influencing landscape painting. From Paris, Monet met the nucleus of his Impressionist group while attending the studio of Glenyre. Making a break from established painting techniques, Monet captured the fleeting effects of time of day, atmosphere and season upon color and light. Like a prism, his artwork broke color into individual elements, and completely lacked black and gray tones. Monet often painted the exact same view numerous times to depict changing light and weather conditions. Refining the portrayal of natural light's transient effects, his work broke ground for 20th century modernism. © AllPosters


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02-10-2012, 12:39 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Cricketer Of The Year
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 7,837
The Indians should take T20 seriously, and play accordingly. They seem completely misfit in T20- almost like they were in Tests in England and Australia lately. I'd prefer to see players good enough for T20 playing T20Is for India- and the likes of Tiwary, Harbhajan and Chawla don't count. Ideally, a completely different team for T20 is needed for India, for the next two years, but I don't mind having a few blokes not established in Tests (Rohit, Gambhir, Irfan, Mishra) being T20I regulars. Dhoni should quit T20Is for good, and concentrate on fixing his Test batting and keeping.
And get rid of Duncan Fletcher. We've had enough of failure under this has-been.
"Talent is nothing without opportunity" "You're not remembered for aiming at the target, but hitting it" Twenty20 used to be boring. Sponsored...by...nothing!!! |
02-10-2012, 06:04 PM | #17 (permalink) |
School Boy/Girl Captain
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 117
Aside from Steyn, Robin Petersen, Duminy and Faf, everyone has come out of this debacle looking terrible. I don't even know where to begin.
Firstly, questions need to be asked about AB's captaincy. Very poor team selection (e.g. keeping Levi in the side for so long), poor batting orders, bowling the wrong bowlers at the wrong time etc. I don't know what part the team management had in the first two but whoever it was has to be held responsible because opening with Levi in 2 super-8 matches and batting AB at 6 is just shambolic. Also, AB's batting form has taken a nosedive since the start of the England tour and I don't really know whether he is cut out to be captain, keeper and pivotal batsman. Secondly, I don't want to see Levi in international cricket ever again. This pathetic excuse for an opening batsman pretty much guaranteed we were one down before the match ever began, putting pressure on those coming in from virtually the first over. He needs to learn to bat properly and develop his offside play and and in the absence of noticeable improvements, his international career is effectively over. If the team are insistent on not playing Albie Morkel then please don't replace him with Mr. I-Got-Smacked-For-32-Runs-In-An-Over. Wayne Parnell is regressing at an astonishing rate, it's actually embarrassing to witness his decline from an all-rounder of immense promise into the depths of mediocrity. If the team are insistent on playing Albie then bat him at 3 or 4 and not at 7 or 8 when he has 3 balls to make an impact. Also, if you play him then he must play as an out-and-out batsman because his bowling simply isn't international standard. Amla and Kallis in the same side isn't working out. Both bat too slow and don't work together in the top 3. I feel Kallis was brought back for his experience and bowling ability mainly and I doubt we'll see him in T20I cricket again. Botha leaves now and we need another spinner to replace him for the 2014 T20I WC and I'm thinking Prenelan Subrayen who is a similar type of bowler. Finally, what the hell is Behardien doing in this squad over the likes of Miller and Ingram? It's one thing if you have absolutely no talented batsmen and you're selecting the best of the worst but Miller is a gun T20 batsman with a fantastic record and to see him miss out to a limited batsman like Behardien speaks to the muddled thinking of the selectors. All things considered, it's been a hopeless display and everyone needs to get their act together. This simply is not acceptable. I'm sure we'll continue to be there or thereabouts in ODIs and I feel we have a strong enough team to be no.1 in Tests for a considerable period of time but these types of brain-fades in major tournaments needs to be rectified quickly. |
02-10-2012, 10:46 PM | #18 (permalink) |
International Captain
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hyderabad India
Posts: 5,148
AB de Villiers is overdoing the straight talk. It wasn't a choke this time, just poor cricket.
India v South Africa, Super Eights, World Twenty20, Colombo : De Villiers owns up to South African choke | Cricket News | ICC World Twenty20 2012 | ESPN Cricinfo Last edited by 8ankitj; 02-10-2012 at 10:47 PM. |
03-10-2012, 06:10 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Hall of Fame Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: dxb
Posts: 18,865
No Mercy look a bit gay in the photo
And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta Last edited by smalishah84; 03-10-2012 at 06:13 AM. |
03-10-2012, 06:51 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Eyes not spreadsheets
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: England
Posts: 56,346
Indeed, the rest of the bowlers went about 7 an over through the tournament whilst he was only just under 10. Bloke is ****e.
marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good! Anyone want to join the Society? Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently. |
03-10-2012, 07:27 AM | #26 (permalink) | |
State Vice-Captain
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 1,027
zzz, i know im going against the general notion and he has been erratic... but compared to a load of bowlers england bring through he has a much higher potential peak. Why? He can bowl easily high eighties with a good action, gets conventional and reverse swing, and has a wealth of variations. He also has completely the right attitude. Always wanting to bowl regardless of game situation and with a passion for the game. No doubt he was expensive but he also bowled at the start during powerplays and the last 2(out of 3) overs of the innings. More than anybody he had the toughest of the jobs during the WC Look at the alternatives. Chris Woakes - early 80's with no variation. easily hittable. but decent batsman although not outright hitter James Anderson - Worse career international T20 record than Dernbach. Bowls mid 80's length balls. goes to pieces when hit. Tim Bresnan- Another worse record than Dernbach. Bowls too many balls sliding down leg at medium pace. So who would you replace Dernbach with? |
03-10-2012, 07:35 AM | #27 (permalink) | |
Cricketer Of The Year
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: .
Posts: 8,797
03-10-2012, 07:56 AM | #28 (permalink) | |
Hall of Fame Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North East England
Posts: 18,557
You seem to be missing the point. Dernbach is ****. The only reason he has a better record is because he had a honeymoon period before everyone in international cricket worked out his slower balls. If he actually bowled properly he could be an asset, but he doesn't. He bowled one very good over against Sri Lanka and then reverted to his usual shower, spraying the ball everywhere at 70mph. Doesn't matter if he has potential or not, he's **** and so shouldn't be anywhere near the national side.
National Scrabble Champion 2009, 8th in 2009 World Championships, gold medal (team) at Causeway, 2011 Masters Champion 24 Hour Scrabble World Record Attempt for Charity, in aid of Daisy Chain and End Polio Now Countdown Series 57 Champion King of the Arcade Reply from mods to my prank bans in public: Reply from mods to my prank bans in private: MSN - evil_budgie @ hotmail.co.uk |
03-10-2012, 08:25 AM | #30 (permalink) |
First Class Debutant
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 870
This idea that only some players really have a passion others not as much is a narrative bull**** perpetuated by media. ****s are intl cricketers, all of them are passionate about the game otherwise they wouldn't be there.
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Salmon grilled directly on a cedar plank is a Northwest favorite. But can you enjoy wood-perfumed grilled salmon without hunting down hard-to-find planks?
Grilled Chicken Teriyaki
Chicken teriyaki can often turn into a salty disaster. The secret to flavorful, crisp (but not charred) skin is to hold back on the sugar until the last five minutes of cooking.


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LUMBERTON — Fred C. Britt Jr., 80, of 2067 Broadridge Road, died March 3, 2013, at Southeastern Hospice House in Lumberton.
The funeral will be 3 p.m. today at Revels Funeral Home Chapel in Lumberton, the Revs. Tom Britt and George Connor officiating. Burial will follow in Gardens of Faith Cemetery.
Britt was a retired farmer. He was born in Robeson County on Aug. 25, 1932, and was a son of the late Fred and Estelle Britt of Lumberton.
He was preceded in death by his granddaughter, Stephanie Fralix; three brothers, James Britt, Cecil Britt and Harold Britt; and two sisters, O'Neal Caulder and Georgia Gore.
He is survived by his wife, Louise Cox Britt; children, Linda Britt of Hampstead, Jerry Britt of Lumberton, Elizabeth Fralix and husband Junior Fralix of Mullins, S.C.; a grandson, Jason Fralix; two brothers, Juluis Britt of Lumberton, and Thomas Britt of Tucson, Ariz.; three sisters, Sherry Stanley of Bladenboro, Peggy Parker and Betty Parker, both of Lumberton; and several nieces and nephews.
Paid obituary


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For some odd reason, this one made me think of Space Odity and Bowie.
A red medusa and some other cool stuff.
These bags needed their own photos. Can you see my excitement?
Fantastic bracelets. The photo is a bit blurry because I was moving to much.
After buying dinner and the movie tickets this was the only item that I love and could afford. My darling Judith got it for me before I got to the register.
Afterwards we went to the movies and got into The Hangover 2 instead of Pirates of the Caribbean 4. It must been meant to be, because we saw the first Hangover together as well and we both loved it.
However, this movie was funny but not as good as the first one, and at times it felt flat. Also how many times are the guys going to be drugged by their friend before they kick his ass for good?
I just came from seeing the wizard, the wonderful wizard of documentaries: Mr. Ken Burns at the Parker Playhouse in Ft. Lauderdale. My nerdy heart is beating so fast...
Off course I'll be posting about it later.


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Monday, May 22, 2006
Exodus: The Brain Drain in Churches of Christ
Though unknown there has also been a steady stream of folks who have left the Churches of Christ for one reason or another. These "exoduses" from our fellowship were often quiet and unrecognized. Ironically some of the first to leave were those who thought we were not sectarian enough. John Thomas first brought the "rebaptism" heresy into the Stone-Campbell Movement in the mid-1830's but was vigourously opposed by Alexander Campbell. Thomas ended up leaving and founding the Christadelphians (perhaps the slippery slope is true after all!!)
The Churches of Christ received a rude wake up call in 1966 when a book called Voices of Concern: Critical Studies in Church of Christism was published. Many of the essays from this book can be read here: http://www.unc.edu/~elliott/VofC/ This book revealed that for a generation many of the brightest and best known of the Churches of Christ had in fact left or were in the process of leaving. So troubling was this book that James D. Bales was invited by Leroy Garrett to respond for an entire year in Restoration Review to this book. Names like Logan Fox, Norman Parks, J. P. Sanders and Roy Key were widely recognized and their departure (among many others) was a blow to our sense of identity.
In 1973 Dr. Tom Olbricht wrote a short article in Mission Journal reflecting on this exodus by especially the (then) younger people. He writes "It is no secret that a whole generation born between 1930 and 1950 has become Church of Christ drop-outs. Visit churches in St. Louis, in Houston, in Nashville and you won't see them" ("Is there a Message? Mission [June 1973], 357).
In the 60s and 70s many young people were disillusioned over the seeming disinterest of brotherhood leaders in issues of biblical justice. They believed many were simply mirroring the racial prejudice and lost in a maze of irrelevancies (institutional controversy, premillennial controversy, etc) but with no word on how a Christian should handle segregation, the raging war questions, how to address poverty. So they left. Most did not leave Christianity as such but they did leave Churches of Christ because they felt there was no place for them here.
Have things changed? There is still a brain drain in Churches of Christ. I know many preachers, extremely gifted men of God who have simply given up. From appearances it would almost look as if there is greater exodus now than before. Young people are more interested in spiritual matters than ever before and yet many leave. Is it because they don't love God? Is it because they simply have no respect for "biblical authority?" Is it because they have, possibly, discovered that Jesus may not be in our assemblies? I am just asking the questions not proposing answers.
These are musings . . . only musings. I am interested in your input. I believe we have a message even in our heritage. One that is relevant and vibrant. How can we connect with these Postmoderns before its too late?
I think we need to emphasize the cross of Christ afresh.
I think we need to emphasize the life of the Spirit.
I think we need to model prayer in our lives and assemblies.
I think we need to model compassion to the disinherited. Our churches need to be concerned about the sound doctrine of ministering to the poor.
I think we need to refocus the marks of the church on the marks of the cross . . . specifically in discipleship.
On the flip side (briefly) there are those who never left even though they had "a lover's quarrel" with "us." Some of these brothers and sisters others would have preferred for them to leave . . . but they never have. Leroy Garrett speaks of his trials and tribulations along his pilgrimage in his recent autobiography called A Lover's Quarrel. Rather than leave he vowed to be an instrument of God to bring about healthy change . . . as he sees it. Carl Ketcherside calls his life through the Church of Christ as a Pilgrimage of Joy despite his often critical observations on the life and teachings of the CofC. These make for interesting contrasts with those who leave.
What say you?
Stoned-Campbell Disciple
20 comments:
I was amazed you included JP Sanders among the departees. Dear JP won his final victory after several years a member of our congregation here in Reno. Perhaps, following his retirement from Columbia and move to Palm Springs he and Gloria chose to meet with a non-CoC -- something I can't imagine. He was certainly active in a CoC during their short stay in Grass Valley, CA, before coming to Reno.
Can you give evidence of his departure?
BTW, it was great to meet you, finally, at PU.
Dan Smith
Sparks, NV - 7:12 AM
- Stoned-Campbell Disciple said...
Dan it was certainly great to meet you at Pepperdine. I wish we could have visited longer.
Unfortunately, I think we have some slight confusion here over our Sanders. In our small section of the kingdom of God there were two well known men with the name "J.P. Sanders" though they were very different people.
The Joel Pilant (J.P.) you speak of was born (1906) and raised in Texas, preached for the Hillsboro church in Nashville, was first editor of 20th Century Christian,became President of Pepperdine.
The other J.P. Sanders was born in 1917 in Nashville. Being blind did not slow him down in the least. He graduated from ACC with honors in 1940, earned an MA and BD from Vanderbilt and continued to do graduate work at Yale. He was associate editor of Christian Leader and preached for many churches including the Killburn Avenue church in Rockford before leaving the CofCs for the Disciples in 1954. You can read Tom Olbricht's recollections of Sanders and his controversies in Hearing God's Voice pages 165-178. You can read Sanders own testimony in Voices of Concern, pp. 34-47. Sorry for the confusion.
I am gratified you are reading my blog. Blessings on you.
Bobby Valentine - 7:44 AM
- cwinwc said...
I too have noticed in the 20-something years that I've been involved with our local Bible Camp, that today's "young people" are more interested in spiritual matters than their 1980's counterparts. You can't miss the sense of irony in being aware of this phenomenon and yet we're still losing our kids. If that isn't a wake up call I don't know what would constitute one for our fellowship.
Thank you for your post. - 7:57 AM
- Stephen said...
Thanks for raising the question, Bobby!
Since this is a blog, I guess we can just blurt things out.
My first blurt is to raise a question: If there is a Brain Drain, is there also an Ignoramus Drain, and a Normal Intelligence Drain? In other words, are people leaving Churches of Christ all over the intelligence spectrum, or is there a spike in the numbers toward the brainier end? If people with all kinds of brains leave, then it might just be normal atrophy. If brainy people are leaving in disproportionately high numbers, then there might be some flaw in the church's traditional logic or attitude or something, and thoughtful people see this. And if huge numbers of nincompoops are flocking out of our churches, then I guess we have the answer why they are leaving: because they are nincompoops! Whatever the case, we ought to at least cast an eye over the whole range of data.
Now another blurt. I love the idea of healthy change from within. But doesn't that require some stretchiness from the institution that is being changed? If it won't stretch, it will split, and if it won't split, it will expel. (Yes, yes, non-stretchiness will also prevent un-healthy change--but only by preventing all kinds of change whatever.) So if the prevailing culture of Churches of Christ, or of the local church, is to remain inflexible, healthy change becomes difficult. But health itself might be defined as knowing when to stretch and when to hold firm. Now it seems to me
ironic that what begins as a desire for unity, truth, and the message of God in Scripture can so rapidly become inflexibility in matters of ecclesiology and liturgy. But your list, Bobby--cross, Spirit, prayer, justice, and willingness to learn (i.e., discipleship)--leads in the right direction.
Massachusetts - 8:04 AM
- Keith said...
I can empathize, Bobby. I toyed with leaving the CoC as well at times. Not recently but earlier own in my academic life.
Perhaps it is because there is a disconnect between the very Enlightenment-based approach to Scripture/doctrine and the very Post-modern approach of today?
Or maybe some of us in ministry simply get tired of beating our heads against a proverbial wall?
Bottom line for me - I am a follower of Christ. No fellowship or denomination is going to be perfect. Only Christ is perfect. In the end, I chose to "dance with who brung me" rather than switch partners in the middle of the dance. It is easier to stay in the CoC, knowing all the potholes to avoid, than to switch to another fellowship and be unaware of them.
That's my take.
What to do about it? I don't know. I like your ideas (especially refocusing on the Cross, Spirit, compassion ministries). - 8:07 AM
- Stoned-Campbell Disciple said...
Cecil I have been involved with camp myself and have noticed the trend too. But I also notice on my thursday trips to the coffee shop speaking with college types. I think there is movement in our churches but I think we have a ways to go.
What an honor to have you on my blog! I think you ask a very good question, or series of questions. I suppose I am less concerned about the "ignoramus drain" than I am the brain drain. That folks will quite because they don't get their way or whatever seems to be different ball game to me.
But by "brain" I do not mean just the linear academic types but I mean the right brain creative folks. I know several folks truly gifted in the arts and have left because their is simply no place "here" for them. I think 1 Cor 12 pts us in the direction of cultivating this diversity.
There does seem to be an institutional tendency towards "self-defense." Is this an indication of "principalities and powers" taking up residence in our "institutional church." C. S. Lewis seems to think the one place you can be sure these powers will be is in "church." (cf. Screwtape Letters).
You have given me lots to think about Stephen. Thanks for continuing to be my teacher.
I have wrestled with it. I cannot say that I have ceased. When I was fired over the issue of race I was ready to throw in the towel.
I do think the CofCs have moved in a positive direction. I just think we need more movement. But as Stephen has pointed out . . . if the institution does not want to stretch division will take place. Sadly I believe that is already taking place.
Stoned-Campbell Disciple - 8:59 AM
I talked with a brother twenty years ago about this very thing. We looked around and saw that there were no men who could be elders. There was a significant gap between the older (greatest generation) and the next. I think this has contributed to some of the problems we face today. Then again, it might be beneficial in the sense that a new generation of leaders is coming with less of the baggage of the old - shepherds rather than a broad of directors. I'm sure there are any number of contributing reasons for this and you have mention a few of them. I also think it is just a blindness to reality as well.
Thanks, George (from Houston) - 11:47 AM
- Ancient Wanderer said...
"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe...Greeks look for wisdom,...For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength."
"Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?"
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others. Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer."
Just wondering what God had to say about brain-drains and ignoramus ship jumpers.
But, Allah be praised that our Universities have remained strong in academics and integrity.
I thinks therefore i's smart.
"we have found the enemy and they are stoopid" - 3:59 PM
- Stoned-Campbell Disciple said...
As always I am delighted to have you come by. Thank your for your comments.
Bobby Valentine - 8:54 PM
- john alan turner said...
Andy Wall wrote his dissertation from Fuller on this topic. He conducted interviews from folks who had left the Churches of Christ in California. You might want to see if you could get a copy of his research. - 11:44 PM
- Stoned-Campbell Disciple said...
JAT thanks for the heads up on the work of Andy Wall. I am sure that would an insightful read.
Bobby Valentine - 5:38 AM
I can't speak for others, but I can give you my story.
For years I lived in absolute CoC bliss as a voluntary youth minister, worship leader, teacher, etc. We then gained a MSOP diehard fundamentalist preacher who set about the most shameful series of actions I have ever witnessed in the confines of a church building in an effort to "convert or divert" everyone who wasn't up to his particular standard of truth.
It prompted greater study on my part in which I began to give the Bible the sort of study time I always knew I should.
My first realization was that CoC doctrine was indefensible to the honest observer. My second was that the Bible and subsequently the Christian faith is equally indefensible.
I am now a happy agnostic. - 8:33 AM
- Wes Woodell said...
Speaking personally, I am not concerned with leading people into a Restoration Movement Church of Christ - I am concerned with leading them into Christ. I appreciate many aspects of our tradition, but I appreciate others that are centered around Jesus too and intellectually "left" the RM CoCs a long time ago. I'm just a Christian, and that's it. Perhaps some of the leaders who have chosen to leave shared this sort of sentiment?
- Gardner Hall said...
I appreciate so much what Wes said.
There are two ways to use the term "church of Christ"
(1) A network of local congregations found in Mac Lynn's directory.
(2) All the saved people in the world known only by God.
I think when you are talking about those leaving "churches of Christ" you have the first concept in mind. Maybe we all need to think of "leaving" the "CoC" in that first sense, and just try to identify primarily with Christ and therefore be satisfied with just being a part of his body. I know this is probably a naïve wish. Historically "we" can't deny the influence of Campbell, Stone, Lipscomb, et. al, but that still doesn't mean we have to identify so much with a "network." The Corinthians were influenced by Paul, but he would have begged them not to be a part of a "Pauline network." - 5:46 PM
- Wiley Clarkson said...
Execellent article! I have heard a number of sermons in the past couple of months at our congregation about the reasons the Millenial Generation, the 19-29 year olds, is leaving and not coming back. Our preacher was only talking about that one specific generation! You pretty well covered alot of what these young adults are saying, along with other generations. However, for some reason, those who talk about this departure from our fellowship miss a very important point, and this is something that crosses many age boundaries. People see us as being full of contradictions and very hipocritical in our practices. We say one thing, then do another. We teach "do not discriminate for any reason" in secular society and then come into the church and we discriminate against gender. The racial discrimination has been more or less handled, along with the class discrimination issue, but we discriminate against women in the worst imaginable way in a free society and we do it in the name of God. We preach a heretical doctrine of service in the church being because of gender instead of service in the church being because of giftedness by the Holy Spirit, which is heresy! Remember the ACU Lectureship race discrimination apology of about 1996 from Dr. Money? So far, there has never been an apology for the discrimination against women in the church (and that does carry into the CoC universities as well!).
The following link is to the story of Dr. Katie Hays, our only female preacher in the CoC in the first decade of the 21st Century. She and her very gifted husband, Dr. Lance Pape, both moved to the Christian Church DOC after a period of re-examination (there's alot that remains untold). He is now the Asst Prof of Homiletics at Brite Divity at TCU and her ability as a preacher is outstanding!!! Talk about Brain Drain!!! Her parents and his parents are still members of the CoC. Katie presented her story at the CBE Houston Conference the last of April. I'm proud to say I was the conference committee person who was the one who had the privilege of obtaining and working with Katie up to and during the conference. She has given me permission to publish her story in written form (pdf) on my web site about gender equality in the CoC and the video is available through CBE, Int. at a very reasonable price. I highly recommend the purchase of the video!
I have heard from many women, young and old, over the last few years who have left our fellowship because of the gender discrimination they have felt in our congregations. Many are very gifted but their gifts were being ignored. When a woman leaves the CoC for another denomination, she usually takes her entire family with her. This multiplies our loss! I have also heard from men who are just plain tired of hearing only male voices in the leadership or the worship of the church and they have problems with the traditional gender theology. I'm sure there are probably many other reasons included, some of which you have very appropriately pointed out as areas of needed change, but the gender issue is one that seems to be overlooked in the discussion and it is a very important reason. In the congregation my wife and I attend, it is strictly male only everything (except teaching children's bible classes with unbaptized boys), right down to boys handing out the attendance books during the service as this is seen as training for male leadership! If it is done in the worship, it will be done by a male and women are excluded from everything except sitting on the pew, singing a song, and passing communion trays from side to side!
I hope you will continue with more of what you have found in your study of this issue of "Brain Drain". The "Brain Drain" issue and the gender issue are well on their way to becoming the two hottest topics in our fellowship over the next decade.
Grace to you and peace.
Wiley - 6:59 PM
I wanted to respond to the happy agnostic...
Dear anonymous,
Welcome to the club. You say that conservative dogmatism drove you ultimately toward agnosticism. I certainly understand because the same has happened to me. But I want to stress that I am of the belief that all Christians, except those afraid of a little introspection, are in some sense agnostic.
It is not possible, in my humble opinion, to logically prove the existence of God (most or all of the world's best apologists say the same thing) and therefore it is impossible to know with any kind of real certainty that he/she/it exists. So we are all a little (or a lot) agnostic. That doesn't mean we can't still have faith. In fact, without some degree of doubt, faith cannot exist. I still have faith in Jesus. I love him. This despite the fact that I don't feel I can prove much about him, including his existence, his teachings, or resurrection. All/some/none of those may be true. But I believe in him. I have faith.
You have chosen a different path and given your background I can understand why. I almost chose the same path. If my friends and family knew the whole truth about me, they would probably accuse me of that very thing.
I have grown comfortable in my uncertainty and given the fact that you say you are happy, I assume you have as well. I choose to believe that there is some OTHER behind the universe... maybe there is not. So I will worship my own feeble concept of God, just like every other "believer" does, whether they want to admit it or not. We all worship a construct... our mind creates our conceptual understanding of God but that construct is not God. If there is a God he must, by definition, be far greater than our understanding of him. Or maybe reality is all there is. If so, I'll worship it.
Back to the article....
I believe that the biggest reason so many leave the CoC is that so many are sick of the ongoing arrogance of the "we are right and everyone else is wrong" mentality. The world is becoming philosophically savvy enough to recognize the stupidity of such an attitude. To think that we are smarter, or more dedicated to scripture, etc., has become such an irritation that most are no longer willing to accommodate it. My guess, I don't think the CoC will survive, at least not in any meaningful numbers. - 8:00 PM
I think we need to emphasize the resurrection. Tomorrow morning I am preaching on Acts 17. In Thessalonica Paul proclaimed Jesus had to suffer a rise from the dead. In Athens Paul cited the proof of God's activity is in His raising Jesus from the dead. It is only in Berea, in chapter 17, where the resurrection is not referred to specifically. However, I would hazard a guess that was included in Paul's message there, too. The key to Peter's first sermon in Acts 2 is the resurrection. Thus, I think we need to emphazied it along with the cross and suffering of Jesus.
- Vincent Eagan III said...
I think the entire "we/they" mentality should be rethought. I don't tell people right off the bat that I am a member of the church of Christ. I tell them I am a Christian. If I get asked to expound on that, or, "What kind of Christian?" I still don't jump into "Church of Christing". Why? Because such thinking DOES turn the church into just another denomination.
I specifically state to people that I don't believe in denominations. 1 Corinthians 1:10 is pretty straightforward in condemnation of that. (I recently had one guy say to me, "One verse! That's all you have for that whole argument!" I responded, "Oh - I'm sorry ... there are more, but I thought one was enough. So, how many times DOES God have to say something for us to follow it?")
Now ... God counts me as part of "the church of Christ," simply because I have obeyed the gospel. When I did, he added me to the church. It happens to come under a DESCRIPTION as "the churches of Christ" biblically ... not the NAME. It is helpful for us to use that name so that people who have moved into or are visiting our area have somewhere to start when looking for a church that is Bible-based ... but as soon as you start blathering on about how it MUST be called "the Church of Christ", you have turned it into denominationalism!
I'm not a "Church of Christer". I'm just a Christian. I thought that was the heart of the restoration movement anyway. Who cares if the people down the street have the same name as you but teach something different - YOU teach what the Bible says. If I move to a town and there is a "Church of Christ" NOT teaching the Truth, and a "Church" that DOES teach the truth, guess where I'll be? - 5:35 AM
- Eric Greer, MS LMFT said...
My family and I will soon join those who are leaving. Although we are only joining our cousin group the Christian church it is a departure nonetheless - one that brings some sadness to me. I announced my resignation to my church a few weeks ago and explained that we are moving to MA to be involved with church planting. I haven't flouted our decision in the face of our church but our shepherds know we are making the move to the Christian church and are very supportive of what God is doing. One of the reasons the Christian church makes good sense for us is that the Church of Christ does not really make much of an effort to do church planting aside from Kairos. And I don't see the Kairos model to be as helpful. The Christian church is making an all out effort to church plant while we languish around and do very little. Sad. I am looking forward to connecting with CoC people in the Greater Boston Area and will of course always have a heart for our group.
Eric Greer
www.fromlatoma.wordpress.com - 5:38 AM
- Royce Ogle said...
People who are committed to a cause, a church, or a dogma can easily be disillusioned and disappointed. People who are happily devoted to Jesus and his lordship will not be disappointed because he never fails, never changes.
I believe most people leave because of unscriptural standards imposed by churches, because Christ is not first in a congregation, and because one who joyfully expresses their love of Jesus is discouraged to do so.
I think most people are attracted to truth. Much of what traditional churches stand on is not true. - 6:50 AM


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Did you mean?
Wife and I are in our mid/late 60s with knee/ankle arthritis. For trip over July 4th weekend, will we be able to do most of inter-site travelling by 4 wheel drive and keeping hiking to reasonable levels?
I'll be in Albuquerque area from June 3 - June 7, 2013, just wondering if there are any special festivals, parades, etc. during this time period. I already have a balloon ride scheduled, can hardly wait.


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OMG! I think I found my match! I'm definitely interested!
Hi hi!
I have no specific plots in mind, I just know that I need to fill some sort of roleplay void that I'm having right now.
GENRE: Action, adventure, supernatural/fantasy, romance - ALL IN ONE
SETTING: I'm not too fond of the modern-day setting. I like Victorian Era settings the best, whether they are true to our historical Victorian Era or if this takes place in another universe that is very similar to this era. Other settings can be discussed if you have other ideas!
PLOT: As I mentioned, I don't have a specific plot in mind - but that doesn't mean we couldn't come up with something. I just know that I'd like this to involve action/adventure and romance on a very complicated level, between men. Maybe they have been friends for years pre-roleplay, maybe they just meet when we start playing. No idea! But I want it to be complicated, difficult, frustrating for our characters. Things that easy usually aren't fun.
OTHER CHARACTERS? In all of my roleplays I usually end up playing... 10+ people. It gets pretty large. I don't expect you to play that many people, but I think the more characters we have, the more dynamic it is. Of course, we don't play all of them at once (in the same post) but I can double up just fine. I can do up to four scenes in the same post without losing quality.
CHARACTER TYPES: I usually play very dependent, strong characters, but I have experience with just about every kind. Shy, annoying, frustrating, weak, well-mannered, quiet. Especially when I play more than one character in a game, I do my best to make my cast as diverse as possible.
LENGTH: My posts are shorter (1-2 paragraphs) but I don't sacrifice quality. It's a lot more interactive if you are posting shorter, quicker posts back and forth. If I'm playing more than one character in a post, though, sometimes I can get insane-long with my posts. I don't expect you to match it (especially if you're only posting for one character at the moment). The general rule for me is post as much as you need to say to get your point across. I don't even mind the occasional one-liner. Sometimes there just isn't that much to say, especially in a high-interactive environment.
LIMITS: I have none. Seriously. I've had people purposely try to gross me out and I can pretty much promise you that it can't be done. I say this just so you don't worry about whether or not you're going to upset me with something that your character does. If your character decides to go on a ravenous killing rampage, it won't really bother me. Maybe my character joins in.
MATURE: I do mature just fine. I'd prefer for it not to encompass the whole game but I don't mind tension here and there with mature scenes sprinkled about. That includes sexual, drugs/alcohol, gore and violence, etc.
WHERE? I'd -prefer- for it to be an IM game since it's the most fast/interactive (I think). I have MSN and Skype, the latter of which is a great RPing venue. I can do e-mail, though, and if none of these things suit you but you'd REEEEALLY REALLY like to play this anyways, I'm willing to talk about other options.
If anything interests you, you can either post in here or PM me!
... I'm sorry, I tried to keep that short. Wups.


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photographer Dimas Hendrajaya
May 02, 2012
A Year Older
photographer Dimas Hendrajaya
33 comments:
Happy belated birthday to you, Miss Claire. Wishing you all the best in your life :)
btw, please please please make some dresses on bonvieux available in bigger size :<
Oh and about the hair-dye, I think you need to bleach your hair first if you want the black to stay longer.
Come and hail to my cruise, yo mates!
Ahoy,Keenan!HAPPY BIRTHDAY GORGEOUS!!!!
darn i came home an hour before ur bday! that sucks...if only i could stay a day longer!
I had my blast in Yogya and u were the big part of it! Too bad we didn't have much time to catch up lots of stories! im wishing u all the happines, all the love and sincerity from everyone in ur circle of life! stay beautiful, stay Claire!
ps: sometimes i thank God that ur not the person i see in ur blog :)Happy belated birthday! I always wish for the best to you and your success! Keep inspiring us! =) X
http://rosalindatj.blogspot.comhappy birthday! you look gorgeous <3 wish you all the best
Pudding Monsteri thought you dyed your hair back into brown ci, and apparently you did not :/ well i have no idea of why it happened as well..
anyways, happy belated birthday ci, may God grants you with tons of happiness and luck! stay prettier, and keep on rocking & inspiring people :)
you look so adorable and enchanting here. i love the red dress and mary-jane shoes! <3 xx
Thank you for reading and willing to leave your thoughts here. I read and appreciate every single one I got!


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163 South 9th St
Springfield, OR 97477
By taking a page from Toyota themselves, Lithia Toyota of Springfield challenges many consumers' perspective of exactly what is the quintessential car-buying experience. When you visit our dealership, located at 163 South 9th St Springfield, Oregon, for complete car specs or to take a test drive, you'll find we deliver car drivers in the Eugene, Corvallis and Roseburg areas an extensive product lineup, deft service and auto repair, and perhaps most importantly - a one-of-a-kind mix of professionalism and approachability. That's right. While we're experts on every Toyota model, including the Camry, Tacoma, Pruis, Sienna and Tundra, we also have the ability to listen and talk about different autos in a language all different drivers can understand.
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- Date: 3 May
- Bristol, Avon
- £6.75 - £7.50 per hour, OTE
- 5 applications
posted by:
Proactive People
Proactive People
Telemarketing Advisor / Telesales Advisor (charity fundraising) Telemarketing Advisor / Telesales Advisor (charity fundraising). A Bristol based charity fundraising calling centre is expanding and requires new staff to start each Tuesday. Working on campaigns raising money for household name charities, you'll be calling supporters of charity or people potentially interested in donating money, letting them know about the...


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