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SPEAK OUT: Should MCPS Close Schools For Muslim Holidays?
Montgomery County Councilman George Leventhal suggests MCPS should adjust its calendar to provide two school closing days for the two most religious Muslim holidays.
Christmas and Easter fall during winter and spring breaks. Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the two most religious holidays on the Jewish calendar, are granted off-days by Montgomery County Public Schools.
Montgomery County Councilman George Leventhal thinks two additional high holidays should be added to that list.
Leventhal wrote to MCPS Superintendent Joshua Starr and Board of Education President Shirley Brandman on May 23 urging the school system to "provide two school closing days each school year in order for American Muslim members of our community to observe Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul-Fitr, the two most significant holidays in the Muslim calendar," according to a report by Maryland Juice.
Currently, the two holidays are designated as non-testing days for MCPS and Muslim students' absences are excused.
"Thousands of our neighbors fill mosques throughout the county for religious observement and deserve the same recognition of their most sacred holidays that other faiths enjoy," Leventhal wrote in his letter to Starr and Brandman.
In response to the letter, MCPS spokesperson Dana Tofig said the school system would consider a change.
"We appreciate Councilman Leventhal's letter and will certainly take it under consideration during our calendar-setting process, which includes parents, community members and staff," Tofig told Patch in an email. "As a school district, we embrace and celebrate our diversity and are committed to ensuring that all religious faiths are respected.
"MCPS will continue to respect the rights of our students and staff to observe religious holidays and customs. If a student is absent due to observance of a religious holiday, it is considered an excused absence."
SPEAK OUT: Should MCPS make adjustments to its future school calendars to give an off-day recognizing the two most religious Muslim holidays? Tell us in the comments.
Saqib Ali
5:20 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Dana Tofig said: "As a school district, we embrace and celebrate our diversity and are committed to ensuring that all religious faiths are respected. MCPS will continue to respect the rights of our students and staff to observe religious holidays and customs. If a student is absent due to observance of a religious holiday, it is considered an excused absence."
But the reality here (which Mr. Tofig pointedly failed to address) is that MCPS gives preferential treatment to certain religions over others. There needs to be a policy of parity. Mr. Tofig failed to explain why MCPS treats Jewish and Christian holidays one way while treating Muslim holidays a different way. That is the opposite of "embracing and celebrating diversity".
bill marshall
11:09 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Perhaps a more rational argument would be to state the demographic make up of the community instead of accusing MCPS (and the community as a whole) of giving preferential treatment to one religion over another. It has a lot more to do with the fact that the schools would be virtually empty on Christmas and Jewish holy days.
If the muslim numbers support it then the problem will be resolved because individual schools will have attendance and staffing problems.
Just because Islam is responsible for so much death, killing, terrorism and subjugating women does not automatically mean that everyone who is not a muslim hates muslims.
11:05 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
"Just because Islam is responsible for so much death, killing, terrorism and subjugating women"
What a troll. Yeah, history and the current geo-political state of the world definitely prove Christians and Jews are way superior to Muslims. #sarcasm. Good lord. Read a history book or pick up a newspaper. You go on and talk crap below about Islamic law that you obviously have no grasp of. I can't believe your blatantly bigoted posts are allowed to stand. Great, I fed the troll, but seriously you're a shameful and embarrassing person and only topped by B Allen (who we all already know from his hundreds of posts is a complete racist when it comes to anything he views as not of the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", i.e. anything that isn't white or christian).
Soffie Ceesay
12:35 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Yes, MCPS should also close on Eid ul Fitr and Eid Ul Adha, the two major holidays celebrated by a good number of county citizens who practice Islam.
Jane Abraham
4:15 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Because Muslims are a very tiny minority in this county. In other states, and I can name some, Jewish holidays are not celebrated because Christians make up the vast majority of the population in that area. Not all Christian religious holidays are celebrated; Orthodox Christmas and Easter are NOT observed. Why? Because a small percentage observe those days. Also, Easter is always a Sunday and does not take away from attended school days. In agreement with France, headscarves should not be allowed in public schools; hats are not. The problem is Montgomery County tries to be so PC and in doing so, is making a negative impact. If people do not like what they currently receive in public schools, go to a private one for your religion or home school. Many Catholics have done so. It is IMPOSSIBLE to accommodate all people, all religions. Deal with it.
Rashid A. Makhdoom
11:58 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Rashid A. Makhdoom
11:57 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
A religious observance that can only be observed or performed on a specific, ordained and prescribed time of the day, and if not performed or observed at that prescribed time of the day it is considered not observed or performed, and that prescribed time of the day conflicts with the school time, then for that religious observance the school should be closed. The two Muslim holidays proposed by Councilmember Levethal had to be performed at a prescribed time of the day and if not performed during that prescribed time period are considered not performed, so the schools should be closed to allow Muslim student to perform their religious practices. If there are other religious obserances which are ordained to be performed or observed during a perscribed time of the day and that time of the day conflicts with the school time then those days should also be observed as closed days for the schools.
Rashid A. Makhdoom
B Allen
7:15 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
@jag...you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. You try to pontificate on every subject here and we can clearly see that you don't know "jack". What I do see is a typical spoiled little brat who wants to get his way and when you do not, you go on attack mode. I give facts, figures, comments about how absurd you people on the left are in your thought process and you can't take it, so you go on attack. HAHA, funny watching you people squirm.
Laurie Halverson
4:35 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Wow-so many comments generated here! I think all religions should be valued and everyone should be allowed to practice and not have the learning suffer as a result -an observance of no tests on these two holidays is an example of MCPS's consideration for the growing number of Muslim families in our school system. However, when does it end? There are not just 3 religions with special days of observance. There are already so many days of disruption, that it becomes more challenging to provide a continuing routine that our kids need to learn. (State testing creates weeks of disruption as well, and may even create more days of disruption as common core state standards are tested in 2014/15). I think it is best to keep school open on days when most staff can be in the schools. If a majority of the staff is Christian then it makes sense to close schools on Christian holidays. Many of our teachers and subs (and I don't know the percent) are Jewish so it also makes sense to close on these days as well. Remember, the focus should be about learning. As long as there are MCPS policies that protect our families so they can observe their own religions, I don't think we need to add more days off. We can still observe holidays and respect other religions while keeping school open.
Esther D
12:51 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
We need to consider our childrens education. If we keep adding days and days off the children of the United States will lag further behind. It is hard to satisfy everyone in our great nation that accepts people from other countries and we are a great melting pot of diversity. Let us be content with the acknowledgment of an excused absence for that/those days. Some schools do not have "Christmas parties" they have "Winter Soltice" or "Holiday" parties to accomodate other cutlures. How far do we want to push this issue? Let our children focus on what is needed education.
Esther D
1:43 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
@Jag I know and I have an understanding of the difference between religion and race/ethnicity/culture. "African American and Hispanic people don't have holidays...." is incorrect ,but I will let you do the research on that. The Hispanic community in their countries take off for Saint (religious) holidays. " I also have not seen any proposal to cut the school year short, like you fear." My fears were never stated on this blog. "Presumably, these two holidays would cut short the summer holiday by two days" We can also rule out any snow days or catestrophic events. We have had a earthquake in Montgomery County. In the end, I intrust that education will be the main and primal focus and if the system finds it suitable for days off, then it is. Let us stay clear of any underlining jab matchs on here, it is a waste of everyones time.
Ananya Bhattacharyya
3:20 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012
This is in response to Bill Marshall's comments about Islam being responsible for so much death, killing, terrorism... This is factually incorrect. History tells us that no community has been free from fanatics who kill in the name of religion. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," (including killings) and included the belief that "Jesus was the first Klansman." Also hundreds of thousands of people were killed during the Crusades. What's more, it's not just religious communities that were violent. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in the USSR in the name of communism. The LTTE which pioneered the use of suicide bombs, consisted a majority of Hindus and a minority of Christians.
5:20 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
The reason MCPS closes for the Jewish holidays is the fact that a significant number of teachers and substitute teachers are Jewish and staffing becomes an issue.
Faisal Hassan
5:58 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
With the increasing Muslim population in the area and professionals working in Montgomery County Public Schools, there should be some sort of measure taken to make the two Eids a holiday should they fall during the school year or school week. I believe if we are going to have our Jewish neighbors have their holidays recognized, we also need to do the same for the Muslim students and faculty.
farhana shah
12:00 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
If this is the case, then we need to look at the data.
B Allen
7:24 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Again, it is the left pandering to yet another group to get their votes. Cmon people, get over it. It just so happens that Christmas is at the end of the first half of the school year and has been set up that way and easter falls around the middle of the marking period. Maybe what needs to be done is take away the spring break thing at easter, so you people have one less thing to complain about. Easter always falls on a sunday, kids can go back to school the following day. I never had a problem with that and I went to a Catholic School. The libs always make a big deal and get "their panties in a bunch" over something that concerns them and them only, it is NOT about the people as a whole, they just think that they are the champions of all good causes...the liberal egotism is the anestetic that dulls the pain of stupidity...and the dems have a lock on egotism.
Esther D
1:02 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
At what point does this become an proof of existance or acknowledgment, noone is being ignored. If they honor Muslim holiday(s) lets add the far share of Asian holidays, Hispanic holidays, Native American holdiays, African American holidays etc. etc. they all have voices too. It just simply is impossible to accomodate. The suggestion in a previous thread stated that going to a private school were the holidays specific to that school are observed might be the best way. Before you think I do not empathize; I am of a minority.
Saqib Ali
5:22 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Beth, what is the number of Jewish teachers as compared to the number of Muslim teachers?
Emil Farkwarp
6:34 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Is there a reason you have to ask someone else to find out the info you want?
Greg Cohen
6:35 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
This comment has been deleted for a violation of Patch Terms of Use: http://gaithersburg.patch.com/terms
B Allen
9:07 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@Saqib...is there a reason why you would even ask a question like that, are you anti-semitic? That would be like a white parent asking how many black teachers are there, now that would be considered by the leftists, democrats, so called progressives, or whatever you people call yourselves today, as "racist"...not trying to go off on another tangent here, mearly stating the facts that the ol double standard is being brought up here. Heck, I am friends with a lot of people who are muslim, because of the high tech industry I am from and they NEVER have said once that we should add these days to the days off. It is leventhal (as other democrat politicians in MD are doing) just trying to "stir up the pot". The kids should go to school all year long, with a couple week break in between quarters. Maybe the USA will get back on track instead of dropping in the worldwide rankings. Look who runs the education system, leftist, eliteists, peolple who think what is best, oh yeah and those who spend more time trying to stir things up about religious holidays...I REST MY CASE.
Mary Bulla Sanchez
9:24 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
And yet, @B Allen, you don't rest your case. You go on and on and on ad nauseum. Even if I agreed with you after reading all your tirades I'd deny it.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:42 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brother Saqib let us not compare Muslims with Christians or Jews. We should treat all religions equally. I recommend Muslim parents just get their kids excused for prayers and then they go back to school. We have so many few school year days, our kids need all the milliseconds needed to stay ahead.
B Allen
7:35 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
I agree with Hussain Ali Usmani...maybe you Saqib Ali need to listen what he is saying. It is NOT about your "special interests". It is about everyone. Schools, companies, advertisements, banks, fundraisers, etc etc ALL had to drop the reference to Christmas, hell banks are NOT even allowed now to have Christmas trees in them during the holiday season or any other reference to religion and they are gvmt agencies. All this agitation from the left needs to stop. @Mary Sanchez ...too bad you can't handle it. I could care less if you agree or disagree, I am giving the facts. Youn can live in your lala land and "carry the water jug" for people like leventhal.
Asim Awan
5:52 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I agree with Saqib...Another point to bear in mind is, even if a student is given an excused absence, a 'significant number of students' miss out on classes and fall behind, and because of this, may choose not to participate in their religious holiday.
Hena Khan
6:01 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Having gone through the Montgomery County public school system, I remember this idea being discussed at various times over the past 30 years. I applaud the Councilman's effort to include the Eid holidays among the days off for teachers and students alike, including my own children, and hope it will be fairly considered. It is important to realize during this debate that in certain years, observing the holidays will not require actual days off since they may fall during the summer or other breaks or on weekends.
6:22 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I think the school system should observe Columbus day with a Monday Holiday.
6:28 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Are there any Chinese or Korean holidays we should consider, too? If we are going to be fair, we need to include everyone? Also, to be fair, aethiests should get to choose one day.
mary anne
9:53 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Mark- is atheism a religion? I thought the definition of religion included a belief "in" something???
7:11 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Mark, absolutely correct, if we had a day off for every religion we would never go to school!
I think we should have Pastafarian Friday's off. Maybe Wiccan Wednesdays!
<sarcasm>Just have your kids learn how to think in church </sacrasm>
Mary Bulla Sanchez
7:44 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I agree, Mark. At this rate, I'm thinking Montgomery County should just go to year-round school in order to accomodate all of these holidays.
Joan Anders
2:37 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I agree with that. Everyone needs a holiday! Heck lets just take off school and work on all holidays in all religions, since we are so diverse. That would leave about 50 days in the school year for learning.
Raza Ansari
4:45 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Most definitely. Mark - You brought up a valid point, since Chinese, Koreans and aethiests pay taxes in your community then it is only fair they get their rights as you do. Thank you for bringing up this point.
Emil Farkwarp
6:37 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Winter and spring break just happen to coincide with Christmas and Easter. How stupid do you think we are? Most of us did NOT graduate from MCPS so we can see through that bull.
NO religious holidays until we can get Nowruz off as well as a few indiginous-people's celebrations (say, commemorating the Trail of Tears and various massacres). Oh, and equinox, though my Reform Druid friends tell me they just pick up a salad.
On a side note, when are these great brains gonna go to a full-year term?
Saqib Ali
6:39 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Emil, yes.
Beth is making the implicit argument that the population size of one religious groups warrants different treatment over another smaller group. So I'm asking her for those population sizes. I have no way of knowing those numbers and I'm curious if how someone else might have obtained them.
Agoes Soendoro
9:10 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
If you want the Islamic community to get approval for the two holidays, it's not going to get it by winning an argument and going through a debate. It's not about being right or wrong, this is not a court room. It's about winning the hearts and minds from other religious views as well as getting respect and support from people in the Montgomery County in general. How do you expect to get any kind support from anybody in the community if your best efforts are to prove people that they are wrong and getting them offended in the process? This kind of attitude needs to stop. Focus on tolerance, compassion and getting others (whatever point of views) to be on your side.
Saqib Ali
6:41 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
"Winter and spring break just happen to coincide with Christmas and Easter."
This is false. Those school breaks were specifically placed to accommodate Christmas and (in some cases) Easter holidays.
mary anne
9:50 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Winter break and spring break did not "happen to coincide with Christmas and Easter". They were originaly called Christmas and Easter holidays until the government decided to put religion out of public schools. Back in the 1960's when I was in school, there was even prayer in school
B Allen
7:10 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@saqib, the winter and spring breaks have been and always have been around Christmas and easter...it is a fact of life in AMERICA. Get with the program. They used to be called Christmas break and Easter break but with the nitwits on the left with their race baiting and religious baiting to put ALL people against each other, they have taken away the words CHRISTMAS and EASTER...and are anti Christian...(REMEMBER AMERICA was built on CHRISTIAN beliefs) I WOULD NEVER go to a muslim country and complain that I want Christmas and Easter as holidays, because I know it is against your beliefs. What Leventhal is doing here is pandering to get votes and keep his job as a council member. He is worthless at that also. Leventhal and all the other council members need to sit down and shut up. In fact, they ALL need to be voted out. Including Leggett. So my answer to this, is forget adding more days off, the kids get enough. They should make the school year longer, especially when 80% of the kids that graduate from MCPS have to take remedial classes when they go off to college, even community college. KNOWN FACT, which was passed on to me by a guidence counselor.
8:21 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@B Alllen, America based on Christian beliefs? Where in the constitution is this stated? In 1797, the Treaty of Tripoli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli) under no circumstances is the United States a Christian nation.
I think someone needs some history lessons.
B Allen
8:54 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@gburgathiest...I NEVER said Christian as a religion, I was referring to "all men are created equal" as a Christian belief and the fact that we ALL have the rights to be all that we want to be, with free will to become what we want to become. If you want to be rich and famous...well then go for it, you want to be uneducated and get handouts all the time...well there are programs set up to allow people to do that, you want to have a major ego problem well then noone is stopping you there either...because Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity...next time read what is commented, don't spin the words to reflect your beliefs, or non beliefs. NOONE is stopping muslims, or anyone else for that matter, from practicing their religion, the kids don't need more days off. They have already put a band on christian groups from participating at schools...hell they even make a big deal about graduation ceremonies held in churches, that ALL religious artifacts need to be covered up. The lack of mentality on the left. WE THE PEOPLE don't need the likes of leventhal forcing his "idea of the day" in this case religion, down our throats, just like the taxes they force on everyone without our say. Evidently, YOU need the history AND reading comprehension lessons. I would venture to say that you are a graduate of MCPS...I am through with you, you will NEVER get it.
9:03 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@B Allen, what is Christian if not a religion? You said "REMEMBER AMERICA was built on CHRISTIAN beliefs". I was pointing out, that America was not built on that. I guess being Christian (a majority in the US), entitles you to be more equal than other religions or lack of religions.
That was quite the non-sequitor moving to the banning of religious groups, religious organizations from participating in school ceremonies. That is just adherence to the first amendment.
Hmm, I'm just suggesting that we follow the constitution of the USA.
And I love the ad hominem attack on me, shows class in an online argument.
Mary Bulla Sanchez
9:15 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Geesh @B allen and @gburgatheist why don't y'all just take it out in the street and duke it out. Or at the very least agree to disagree. I'm really not finding anything enlightening or educational in your back-and-forth rants...although I do get a kick out of B Allen's spelling abilities (MOCO education, B?) and LOVE the atheist's polysyllabic offerings.
B Allen
7:49 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Mary Sanchez, HA! you are pathetic, guess the only thing you have now to attack now is my spelling? As you can tell I do not have a MOCO PS education, I can think and do for myself. I don't "drink the kool-aide" or "carry the water" (like yourself) for those who think they know what is best for everyone. I don't need jokers like leventhal and his cronies shoving more crap down our throats. Go to a full year of school, NOT TO ACCOMMODATE RELIGIONS, which is the ONLY way you people look at it, but to give the kids more time in school and bring them up to the levels of other countries, not to be mediocre at best. BTW, you see who runs the educational system, the lefties. No wonder the kids are having to take remedial classes when they go off to college, they are NOT prepared. Just the facts again.
B Allen
7:53 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Gburgatheist, why would anyone REALLY care what you have to say. Someone who is an atheist, who is just trying to stir things up??? What are you a Saul Alinsky, wannbe? Too bad you are not getting your way again...call your doc to increase your med...not an attack, just and observation.
Mary Bulla Sanchez
9:15 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
@ B Allen - nope, I don't have a MOCO education either and yet, amazingly I can spell and express myself in a civil manner. Zowie. Neither does my daughter go to a Montgomery County school - she goes to a parochial school where she celebrates only the holidays that relate to our faith. But that doesn't mean that I don't see both sides of this argument. I carry nobodys "water jug" - and if anyone has finished off any koolaide, I would guess it to be you. It appears that you have had more than your share of bigoted hateful rhetoric koolaide...and thanks for sharing all your insightful comments with us. It makes us more cognizant of what we DON'T want to be.
B Allen
3:20 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Mary Snachez, oh excuse me, I had one word out of 100 that was spelled incorrectly. Sounds to me you are carrying the water jugs for the left and you have a lock on the kool-aide jug too. Sounds as if you are an out of control lib because you make an issue out of an NON-issue. If the jackass leventhal had not said a word, we would NOT be discussing this NON-issue. If you went to catholic school, then your parents did not get their money's worth. You should have been paying closer attention in the classroom. There is NOTHING racial or bigoted or hateful coming out on my posts, I am making statements that are TRUTH, FACTS AND OBSERVATIONS, as to how you people make up issues just to create the second rule of Alinskys Rules for Radicals "Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy". This is what you people are up to now.
Theresa Defino
6:52 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
In the alternative, how about we recognize the separation of church and state and show no preference to any religion in public school?
5:17 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
anything fair will do, wathever is decided should be applied to all.
B Allen
3:25 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
yeah, if the politicians would just stay out of peoples business and stop trying to create controversy, there would not be a problem. But then again the dems just cannot keep out of peoples business, or their pockets.
Saqib Ali
6:59 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Theresa, that is also fine with me. As long as religions are treated fairly/equally, I'm OK with it.
B Allen
3:26 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Noone even said anything about religions until leventhal opened his big fat mouth.
David Ryner
7:06 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I agree with Saqib Ali, We should honor all religions equally. In fact, this would be a great opportunity for Montgomery County to start a Nationwide celebration of Islam. Very forward thinking and democratic.
bill marshall
10:00 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Yes, we could ,institute sharia law for a day so that Americans can see what Islam is REALLY all about. We could beat some women and kill some infidels in effigy like they do in the middle east.
B Allen
8:11 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@David, MoCo is a sorry excuse to use as an example. The thought process of those who are running this place (and the republic of MD) and those of you who vote for these nutjobs, have made this area brunt of jokes around the country. Even my family who run unions, are die hard democrats and always vote party line (well, they may not be doing that this time aound), think that we have a nutjob as a governor and they hear some of the rediculous stories coming out of this area (you know ike the one about the woman whop could smell her neighbors smoking from inside her house with the windows shut, DUH!!!) and they can't believe that I still live here. I will be starting a new business within a year and it WILL NOT be in MoCo and three more years I will be out of here, so MoCo will lose yet another REAL taxpayer. Your comment, even though you are entitled to making it< is a definite 'THUMBS DOWN"
B Allen
8:18 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@David, oh and btw, should the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA start celebrating islam, then women won't be able to go to school and get an education, have a job, won't be able to vote, have to wear clothes to cover every part of their body except their eyes (then we won't have women to look at at the beach (which is a fovorite AMERICAN pastime). Also, if they would want to have an "affair" and get caught, they will get stoned to death, should I go on....NOT SO VERY FORWARD THINKING. I would say they ar emore REgressive, NOR THE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM OUR COUNTRY WAS BUILT UPON. If you want to celebrate islam, move to the middle east...you can do it all you want.
Hafizur Rahman
7:54 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
It is a positive proposal. It will meet constitutional guarantee of equal opportunity and non discrimination towards religious diversities. Councilman has rightly brought a subject of tremendous importance that the faith community was expecting for a long time. As a US citizen, I trust implementation of this proposal will open a new era in the educational arena of Montgomery County.
Hafizur Rahman
8:44 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Islam McNeal
I think the school district is on the right track by considering the holidays of Muslims. I believe in doing so will allow for greater respect and understanding amongst non muslims. Integrating all the religous holidays on the school calender sends a very unique message which is Understanding. Good Job Montgomery School District.
mary anne
9:47 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I think all major religions' holidays should be ovserved. However, since we now have winter break instead of Christmas and spring break instead of Easter, all religions need to be treated equally. What would these new holidays be called??
10:22 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Absolutely, the two Major Muslim Holidays should be observed in Montgomery County Schools. This shows that the public schools system is tolerant and respectful of all students and staff.
B Allen
3:33 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
DUH!!! AF... You mean to tell me, everyone that sends their kids to MoCo PS are sending them into the lions den? You mean to tell me the teachers, staff, administrators, school board, superintendent, county council, leggett, (should I go on?) do NOT respect and are intolerant of my (and YOURS) children... I guess it took a comment from that big mouth leventhal to get things going and get the school system back on track and to be tolerant and respectful of ALL students.
Arshad H. Qureshi
10:27 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Having raised two children and now two grand children in the Montgomery County over the last 39 years, my (muslim) family has always taken great pride in our school sysyem and the openminded and fair attitudes of our neighbors.
Number of children of muslim faith going to our schools has now increased significantly. It would be a very positive affirmation of our American values to give them days off for two important religious observances. I and my wife whole heartedly support and applaud the initiative taken by Councilman George Laventhal and urge all fairminded citizens to support it too.
Arshad H. Qureshi,
B Allen
3:37 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Let them say their prayers in the morning and send them in with a late note. I don't think MCPS will be "intolerant nor disrespectful" of your religious views. I know I would not and I would go to bat if any staff member would make a big deal out of it.
10:31 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Absolutely, the two Major Muslim Holidays should be observed in Montgomery County Schools. This shows that the public schools system is tolerant and respectful of all students and staff..
10:39 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I applaud Councilman George Leventhal for advocating two school holidays in recognition of Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul-Fitr. The Councilman exhibits courage and leadership on this issue that many other elected officials have ignored for one reason or another. I agree with the tone of some posters that all religious holidays should be equally treated. The Councilman isn't advocating preferential treatment for Muslims, just fair and equal treatment.
B Allen
3:41 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
leventahl is a big mouth and wants to stir up controversy...
10:44 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
This trail of thoughts was very frustrating to read. As someone who spent several years in MCPS I'm shocked that the focus is on equality of religion when the quality of education is so terrible. You are all so concerned that your religion is recognized that you seem to have missed the point that school is for learning, not a medium to push religion.
At this rate the kids will be spending almost no time in school! All the holidays we had while I was still in school were disruptive enough, I can't imagine there being more to contend with.
I would much rather restructure the summer, winter and spring breaks to allow the kids to get a much needed break and enjoy their youth while they have it. Let's not force everyone to miss school because of a religious holiday, and I mean any religious holidays including the standard Jewish and Christian ones. I'm all for complete separation of church and state.
Further, as an atheist, whether atheism is a religion is largely debated, but it is a belief, namely the belief that there is no god or superior being. I think it is particularly ignorant to question whether someone's belief system is actually a belief system just because there are no holidays, temples, churches, or books involved. You are all looking for equal recognition of religion, maybe we should just aim for tolerance and respect for our beliefs.
B Allen
3:47 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
yes, it is not only frustrating but it is also comical to read the comments on the thought process of the left in MoCo. Leventhal ALWAYS tries to stir up controversy, as do MANY other dems in the republic of MD. It is their own special interest that they are concerned about and those who "carry the water" for them, take their side. This was NOT an issue until leventhal opened his mouth. He needs to sit down, shut up and let residents of MoCo live their lives without controversy.
3:58 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
The heck are you talking about B Allen. Leventhal wrote a couple paragraph letter to the BOE president asking that she consider moving two vacation days to whatever dates these holidays fall on. Its about as inherently controversial as watching paint dry. YOU are one of the few on here trying to stir up crap by trying to relate this to everything under the sun that you don't agree with just because you get pleasure from spewing hate. It's psychotic. Goodbye. Enjoy your life. It seems oh so pleasant.
Nicole Perez
11:57 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012
I believe we should include the two Muslim holidays - it seems only fair. We teach our children lessons of diversity and inclusivity, now let'd DO it!
12:34 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
The Christian and Jewish holidays are not treated the same. MCPS employees are paid holiday pay for Christmas and Easter, but no pay for the Jewish holidays.
4:52 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Yes Muslim holidays should be recognized and school should be off.
7:06 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
No! Stop catering to all religions! We have something called the constitution. The first amendment states that government (public schools) should not get involved with religion. This is really simple.
Winter break - yes, we know its origins, is a federal holiday
Spring break - there is no need for it to coincide with easter/good Friday
How about being innovative and go to a 4 quarter system with 2-3 weeks off between each quarter?
But then again, those Hindus, the Pastafarians, might get upset because their holy days are not observed. This is ridiculous...but the ridiculous usually follows religion.
B Allen
9:17 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
For crying out loud, we should add all the made up holidays like, Festivus, Kwanza and all that are listed here. http://holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/index.htm There is a day for EVERYONE...omg...WHAT A JOKE THIS IS!!!
B Allen
9:28 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@Gburgathiest... "This is ridiculous...but the ridiculous usually follows religion." What would you say if someone said that anyone who would want to be an athiiest is rediculous...don't you know In some Islamic countries, atheists face discrimination including lack of legal status or even a death sentence in the case of apostasy. There YOU have been educated again...but I suppose youw ill try and spin the truth!
2:59 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
This is ridiculous...but the ridiculous usually follows religion. And Secular Humanism.
T Cosgrove Jones
7:34 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
If your going to do that then St Patricks day should be honored.
8:23 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
St. Patrick would just be another Christian Holiday ;o)
8:23 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
MCPS must be close on Muslim Holidays. Its a question of Family tradition. Muslim kids miss out on this religious family celebration specially because the importance we give to going to school and fulfilling the American Dream.
8:27 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
If we add more days off (which are aimed at permitting observance of religious rituals), let's cut out some of the current ones. I would start with Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I've never understood how we honor him by *not* learning on that day. And, as influential as he was, he does not deserve to be the only person honored with a day.
I'd probably also be willing to forego Presidents' Day, given that we've watered it down to a holiday that purports to honor all Presidents, great (e.g., Washington, Lincoln) and not great (Pierce, Carter).
8:36 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
One more factoid to consider. According to figures I have seen, 8.7% of the county is Jewish, compared to 1.6% Muslim. While certainly sizable in number, I think you have to consider whether a school should be closed to accommodate the religious practices of 1.6% of the residents.
Theresa Defino
8:39 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
It is not right to ignore the holidays of the much larger Asian population, which exceeds the size both of these, if holidays are to be granted to a smaller group. But see my earlier comment at 6:52 pm on Wednesday, May 30, 2012.
8:49 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Theresa--what are those holidays observed by the apparently monolithic Asian population?
Saqib Ali
11:45 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
MoCoLoCo, Where have you seen these figures?
I have never heard them before but am interested in taking a look myself.
11:58 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I see 4% of county as Muslim. Though it's based on 2000 info so it's likely different now.
my guess based on the county and country's demographic trend would be that % is higher now and is also significantly higher % when considering only school-aged children.
4:11 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
MocoLoco, Where did you get thes false statistics? I'd probably guess it is the opposite.
Jeff Hawkins
8:37 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Super Bowl Monday would be great................
B Allen
3:54 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
I MOST DEFINITLY agree with that. I have been saying that for years. Way too much wasted time on the day after with people recuperating (worldwide) from watching the super bowl. You won't get the libs to go with it though, not controversial enough.
9:13 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
No need to recognize these "holidays" by closing schools. Enough that Muslim students can get off for the day by bringing in a note from parents.
3:02 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Brad is correct. There is no need to have a holiday. All the Muslim students need to do is bring a note from their parents.
Sanja Grujic-Vlajnic
9:13 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Also, consider Eastern Orthodox Christmas on January 6&7 as well as Orthodox Easter that were never even mentioned! Lots of Eastern Orthodox Christians in the Montgomery County, too!
9:20 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
0.7% of population. Not enough to close schools for the other 99.3%.
Seriously, though. I've been on Patch for many months now, and I have never ever noticed as many Muslim-sounding names. Are you all responding to some email campaign to weigh in on this issue?
B Allen
4:01 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Sanja, give the lib democrats time and they will get to those. Anything to stir things up and get you people on the left attacking people who think that this whole thing that leventhal brought up is ridiculous...he is another Alinsky wannabe...Alinsky would say, "The first step in community organization is community disorganization." Seems all you libs feel "empowered" with the chief community organizer in the white house.
9:26 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Its the usual leftist Muslim propaganda from FORMER state delegate Saqib Ali and his buddies
Theresa Defino
9:32 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Why wouldn't they weigh in on an issue of direct concern to them? Leftist propaganda? More intolerance. The proposal isn't being made by a Muslim, should you care to read, "Brad." Scan UP.
4:13 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brad -
What type of propodganda are you in favor of? Teh propoganda that favors harted and exclusion?
5:26 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I am amazed to see that religious biggots never learn a lesson, they always end up loosing no matter how long it takes, but they are always coming at full speed with garbage comments beieving they know something about islam.
This country belongs to no one faith, get real and deal with it.
B Allen
4:05 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
amazing how lefties try to spin things. The democratic party, the party of the Ku Klux Knal and racial intolerance... because of your ego, you people think you are so righteous. egotism is the anestetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.
Jeff Hawkins
9:47 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
"Seriously, though. I've been on Patch for many months now, and I have never ever noticed as many Muslim-sounding names."
This same thing happend during the boycott Lowes campaign. Whatever happend to that?
5:29 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
It could be that you are not familiar with muslim sounding names, but should that really matter if you want to be fair and honnest?
B Allen
4:05 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
the libs got them started and then it wwas just a "flash in the pan"
Ken Sleeman
10:02 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
As a secular humanist, I don't support recognizing any religious holidays. However, students should be able to miss a day of school for any reason, with parental permission.
Jeff Hawkins
10:10 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
As you know students are already allowed to do that...........
Neelofar M
10:19 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Eid holidays would help tremendously. I remember when my kids were going thru MCPS, there were times when they missed morning events on these two important holidays because they had 'testing' or some exam or the other. Sensitivity to Muslim holidays would be great! Thank you Mr. Levanthal!
10:27 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I think closing schools for Eid is a good and fair to community members that celebrate these holidays. MH
10:49 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
If there are enough Muslim students submitting leave requests that it causes disruptions to a normal school day then Eid becomes a holiday (population driven). Otherwise the current system works well for all non-recongnized holidays. Testing is already moved for Eid.
4:16 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Is there enough leave requests to instate Easter Monday as a holiday? The holiday is on Sunday, Why Monday is a holiday then? Was their so many leave requests on Jewish Holidays to doubt schools? I doubt that.
11:07 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I am a muslim but recognize that there are people of many faiths in our wonderfully diverse Montgomery County. And as such, if we are to be truly fair to all our neighbors, we should have schools closing on religious holidays for all faiths (we have hindus, sikhs, buddhists for example). That becomes impractical since we would then have an abundance of schools days off for religious reasons! I dont know a solution that would please everyone or perhaps even most people. The only one that comes to mind is to treat religion as a private matter, and focus public life to matters of general interest to the community. This would mean cutting out all religious holidays in public schools (and I shudder to think how many people reading this will not like my saying this). If it helps, Christmas wasnt even a holiday in the US until the 19th century!
5:33 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Ahmed, anything fair should be okay, let's treat all faiths equally so no children feel as they are less of citizens than others.
Fairness should be the key.
B Allen
8:23 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
I doubt if the children are "feeling as if they are less of a citizen". It is you people that act like children and complain because you feel that you are superior, you feature yourself as being sanctimonious, champions of ALL social programs and testify to your own goodnees. I see conservatives being more level headed, fair to everyone ALL Americans and not catering to every little "pet project", "special interest" thought for the day, as leventhal has conjured up to create controversy.
11:07 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Ah, let's just 'fit in' our children's education 'around' the holidays!!??? Hummm! From what I am reading, that is basically the agenda here. We can then not only demonstrate that we are accepting and tolerant of 'all' religions but accepting and tolerant as well of illiterate generation who certainly will not (majority of) spend that holiday 'singing the praises of (their) Lord' or cracking an English Literature book either. More great days off to witness school age kids walking the streets aimlessly with cell phone up to their ears (like implanted devices) or 'just hangin'' at the local mall. This comment thread is more for adults & what they want or expect for 'religious equality' than for the kids. Has anyone contributing to this topic happened to notice e.g. any high school student on this thread joining in with 'thoughtful insight' or demonstrating, at best, any writing or cognitive skills! Rhetorical! I also wonder if even placing this on the table is not just an advanced step for next political run! Hey, guys, hasn't anyone heard (or experience) that "you can't make EVERYONE happy; can't please everybody!".
11:28 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
My holiday (self-proclaimed) is the 'Feast' of St Patrick. Can you add that to your list of holidays? Hummm! Sarcasm fully intended 'cause this holiday 'thing' is getting out of hand! And, by the way, JFK was 'also' (Martin Luther King Day) assassinated in case anyone missed that 'day in history'. Yet, barely a mention of that horrendous day in November let alone National holiday! Or a national holiday for Robert Kennedy. He was indeed highly involved in civil rights movement. We could go on & on with adding holidays, Councilman Leventhal. And with each one what rings in my ears most is the bombardment of commercials advertising socalled 'special holiday store sales' (Mattress Discounters being the most annoying). Ah, 'the Church of Mattress Discounters'! I guess adding more holidays might indeed boost the economy! LOL!
Temperance Blalock
2:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Mentioning the dates when JFK and MLK and RFK were killed reminds me of the different reactions I witnessed. When President Kennedy was killed I was living in Yemen, a 100% Muslim country, and the outpouring of love and respect and compassion from the Yemeni people to us Americans was memorable. I still remember seeing many Yemenis with their eyes streaming with tears extending their affection to us; they truly loved JFK and were devastated by the tragedy. Even the Soviet Russians put aside their Cold War animosity that day and came to the US Embassy, where they grieved along with Americans. Absolutely no one expressed anything other than sorrow and empathy at that time - there was no happiness expressed by anyone.
Contrast it with 1968, when I was living in rural Kentucky. On both days of assassination I saw and heard Americans, who called themselves Christians, hoot and holler and laugh with joy to learn that those men had been murdered.
B Allen
8:28 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Temperance...you are so full of it... certainily not what I saw on the news, read in the papers and experienced first hand growing up. I can still remember whree I was and how I felt when they announced it over the loudspeaker in the catholic school I attended. We prayed... you are trying to stir up crap...typical liberal.
11:12 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
The Republic of America was founded on Christianity NOT Islam or Buddhism or anything else. Our $ says 'In God we trust'. - if you don't like what this country is, feel free to leave.
11:30 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
if you like this country, read up on US history: The US was founded to free people from the oppression of state-sponsored religion.
11:36 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@Caine, History lesson, "In God we trust" was not placed on money until the 1950s as a result of McCarthyism and the "red scare", likewise the change in the pledge.
Where are your sources that state America was founded on Christianity?
I love this country, only think we should treat all equally. I think we should follow the laws of the constitution, one of the greatest documents every created, and keep religion/governement separate.
5:11 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
You sound idiotic. Who told you that Muslims do not 100% believe in " In God we trust." They do believe in God and they trust in him. Besides the point, this country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion. And who are you to tell people to leave if they do not have the same believes like you do? Anyways, you name says it all "Caine".....full of Jealousy and hatred. the bible says so, doesn't it???
5:38 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
This is not true, get some enlightning readings so you know what this country has been about from creation.
On the other hand, you are not more american than musmims, jews, hindus and sikhs, but i can see that you are one of the ignorant biggots who satisfy their urges in batching others.
what a sad life !!!
Ammar Najar
11:16 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Why Not !! The Islamic Faith Is world wide recognized. Christianity is well respected and recognized in the Muslim world.
12:06 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
About Christianity being well respected by Muslims? Of course that's not a joke. I guess you'd be surprised by a lot of things if you ever took an Islamic studies course or two. The massive overlap between Christianity and Islam (including that guy named Jesus) isn't lost on most of those who practice the latter.
Jane Abraham
4:34 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Christianity is well respected in the Muslim world? How soon can we build a church in Syria, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran
etc. etc.?? Please, do tell!
5:16 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Jane Abraham....
There are hundreds of churches in Syria, Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Iraq, etc. But unfortunate for you, the apparent lack of education and worldly travels prohibit you from knowing so. I urge you to read a book or take a trip abroad to learn.
Amir Dar
11:30 am on Thursday, May 31, 2012
In my opinion, since United States of America was not found on any religious beliefs, as the constitution highlights, therefore we should stop all religious holidays, especially from Public School System. Otherwise, we should accommodate all religions, regardless of their population size.
Jane Abraham
12:01 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Mr. "Fisher" - please reveal yourself to us your real name - why hide? You did not read what I said....which is 'build' a church in the Muslim world. Sorry for you, I am educated and have traveled and have seen firsthand - that is how I am sure. Yes, there are churches in Egypt (New Year's massacre at a Coptic church), churches targeted in Iran after the collapse of Sadam's regime, etc. etc. What is left of the churches in the Muslim world, they are doing their best to extinguish. So, I ask again: Where can one BUILD a church in the Muslim world? Your faith does NOT bend to us. All of this is off the mark of this debate anyway but does impact it. The real truth behind this matter is that at the turn of the century, immigrants wished to assimilate as quickly as possible - language, clothing, etc. Now, everyone wants us to bend to their native culture and there are 160 countries represented in public schools in Montgomery County, clearly making it impossible to please everyone. But, this is America - you have a chocie if you don;t like public. Private school or home school. The mission of a school is to educate children.
farhana shah
12:01 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I have to applaud the Councilman's effort and hope that the Board of Education will accommodate the Muslim students and Muslim teachers in the county. Maybe we can lead the way for the rest of the public school systems in the country. :-)
Sarwar Faraz
12:13 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I support closing schools for the two muslim holidays during the year.
12:51 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Real deep, Jeff. I definitely value you well-stated opinion over that of my religious upbringing, a double-major that included Theology, and multiple personal experiences visiting various Islamic countries. Bu-bye.
Jeff Hawkins
12:35 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Actually since April 22, 1864
1:16 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@Jeff, you are correct about the money. It was the pledge and the US motto that was changed in 1957
12:42 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Stop pandering. This has nothing to do with 2% of our population. It has everything to do with having to pay MCPS employees two additioanl holidays. We are broke. Stop spending money we do not have!
12:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
....nonsensical. Teachers aren't going to be paid more. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? And they aren't going to work any less either - obviously the schools would still have to meet the same number of days of instruction, overall. Presumably, the BOE just pull from vacation days in June or August.
Temperance Blalock
1:01 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
This is an excellent time to determine whether we've reached the point where we must explicitly divorce days-off from specific religious holidays. MCPS is a good forum because of its diversity, along with an intelligent group of parents, educators and students.
My solution would be a two-pronged one. First of all, we should continue the deep cultural American traditions that correlate with the Christmas/mid-winter break and the Easter/Passover break, along with the secular holiday of Thanksgiving.
Then I would grant each student the option of taking their own days off, similar to "floating holidays" that are used by some employers. Since the majority of students would end up taking rather limited groups of days off, I don't think this would be too disruptive.
If we continue to negotiate a limited number of holidays between specific religions, based on percentages of students in the school system (which can change quickly with erratic demographics), then no one will ever truly be satisfied.
I grew up mostly overseas and attended eleven different schools, ranging from an Italian Roman Catholic convent school to one with >60% Muslim students, and learned very early on that no one ever is satisfied - there's always someone who feels that they're being slighted. And although I was raised atheist in the midst of environments that were saturated with religion, I was taught to not take offense at the non-aggressive expressions of faiths of believers.
Jeff Hawkins
1:09 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
A very honest and well said comment. Your solution seems like a fair and good idea.....kudos.
Theresa Defino
2:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
So, how would this work for kids who do not practice any religion? Do they get two days off for no reason, or would they have to stay in school? My kids have been told they couldn't take off to attend family events such as weddings or birthdays.
I'm also uncomfortable with any policies that require kids to say WHICH holiday they're off to acknowledge. Unless you've had kids in MCPS, you have no idea how difficult it is to get an actual excused absence.
Maybe it's time for a full review of the whole absence policy. Remember the controversy when MCPS said it was closing schools so kids and their parents could to attend Obama's inauguration? Are we going to have a repeat of that next year?
Jane Abraham
4:36 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I completely agree with 2 floating holidays, similar to personal days employees have. Kids are in school to learn and this is getting way too twisted.
Jane Abraham
12:07 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
I totally agree with the floating holiday idea (or excused absence which is what it was caleld in my day), such as personal days are given to employees. I do NOT believe for a millisecond that a student who chooses to stay home for a holiday is forced to fall SOOOO far behind. Hooey. How many times have you had to remove your kids for doctors appointments, sick days, even a vacation that perhaps overlapped with a school day. One or two days missed per year max. will not cause major disruption.
5:24 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Thanksgiving is not a secular holiday, it is a religious holiday.
B Allen
9:02 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@jrentz1...you are being educated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving
Jeff Hawkins
1:05 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
The level of deepness was appropriate. As for your Islamic travels.........who cares. It's just the usual spin
Shayan S.
1:24 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I am a product of MCPS, the husband of an MCPS teacher, the father of three MCPS students, a tax-paying resident of Montgomery County, a registered Republican ... and a Muslim-American. Our county is known as a beacon of tolerance (religious, an otherwise) and - despite the efforts of the VERY few who view tolerance as evil - has attracted Muslims, Jews, and minorities of all shape and size for generations. The result is that we ALL now get to live in one of the most affluent, best educated places in the country. While I agree with some of the posters here who wish that more effort would be devoted to improving the efficacy of our public schools, it should be noted that no one is lobbying for a change to the required number of instructional days or the curriculum. We should also recognize the educational value that our children obtain from the tradition of tolerance we have so painstakingly cultivated here. Mr. Leventhal and I share little when it comes to political views, but I applaud the Councilmember here for taking a stand in favor of tolerance and equal opportunity.
2:05 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Well said. Seems weird that a handful of people here are railing against this - some simply calling it impractical (or trying to relate it to Mattress Warehouse - yes, my brain still hurts from that one) and some others going as far as calling it un-American (hooray for our resident racists making an appearance). Does having two days off for these holidays instead of having the two days off during summer vacation seriously detract from your livelihood or something? Who cares. Allow the community to have the holidays. It's a mainstream religion (like 2.3 BILLION people, mainstream) and it's two days. If it's a non-mainstream religion asking for a dozen holidays then go ahead and have a debate. Leventhal's request for consideration is so obviously a non-issue.
2:09 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Any suggestions on what happens if montgomery county residents who are NOT muslims or christians or jews (i.e. hindus, sikhs, jains, buddhists) would like to see MCPS closed for their holidays as well? Shouldnt the main purpose of schools be to educate children? Isnt "religious education" best taught by emphasizing the core values that are common to all religions (being honest, caring for others, seeking knowledge - the reason the Quran tells us Allah created mankind in the first place!!) rather than rituals and traditions? And isnt this education in core values much better taught at homes and schools where children from different religious backgrounds spend time together in schools than by going their separate ways in "places of worship" where priests and molvis assure them they have the worlds best religion?
2:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Islam is "mainstream" world-wide but not here. Let the Muslim students take the day off and not disrupt school for others. Jewish holidays are not taken by all school disctricts, only those with a critical mass of Jewish students.
B Allen
9:13 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
good points Shayan but again, he is pandering for votes and support and following Saul Alinskys rule Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy, in order to pit groups against groups, neighbor against neighbor, family members against family members and people against people. He and other like him need to go. I see through their charades, too bad many people are living with blinders on. There was NO need to bring this up in the first place.
2:33 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Islam has no respect for Judiasm or Christianity in the Muslim world. Are Saudi schools closed for Jewish holidays? Are there Jewish temples in Saudi?? Churches?? lol
5:07 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brad -
Jordan, Turkey. Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, etc. are all Muslim countries with Christian minorities. They all observe Christian holidays out of respect. The only example you mentioned is Saudi Arabia where Jewish holidays are not observed. For your information, Saudi Arabia does not have any Jewish population.
Aside from political and modern problems that arose from colonialism, Islam highly regards Christianity and Judaism. Islam refers to them as people of the Book, meaning the holy books. Both the Torah and the Bible are considered holy in Islam and therefore you will never see them burnt or disrespected. Islam allows marriage between Muslims, Christian, and Jews as well. Islam also allows Muslims to have food prepared by Christians and Jews. Probably you should read about Isam more to educate yourself about the positives rather than following a blinding media that promotes hatreds.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:31 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brad I am Muslim but I am not Saudi. There are many internation expatriate communities living Saudi Arabia and the people do get excused for their holidays. You have to differentiate between Saudis and Muslims. Other Muslim countries do have Christian holidays and those with Jewish populations do have their holidays off.
Two totally separate things. Moreover, we as Americans should not stoop to the level of Saudi Arabia.
As a Muslim, I prefer Muslim kids only get excused for their holiday. I cannot speak for right wing Saudis, but I can speak for majority of Muslims and I do respect all faiths.
Mainstream Islam and Quran recognize Christians and Jews as Ahley Kitab or People of the Scripture. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) actually had Christians from Najran visit him. The Christians actually stayed in his mosque, debated with Muhammad and Muhammad even made room so the Christians can even pray in the mosque of the Prophet.
As a result, the Saudis are actually not following the true Islam. Brad I encourage you to visit me or my mosque during Ramadan and have Iftar dinner with us and please invite me during Christmas or Easter.
6:03 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brad, learn from genuine sources before you adventure to comment on something you don't know.
AntonFischer gave you a summary to get you started with.
Saleem Akhtar
2:43 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
This is long over due. We appreciate George's great history making efforts. U R JUST.
4:06 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
This issue is not about promoting one religion over another. It is really about logistics and the quality of education. Although the population of MoCo is 8.7% Jewish, the staff of many schools is much higher, proportionallly. There are some schools down-county that have 20-25% of the teaching staff that are Jewish. The ability to find enough quality substitute teachers (who are also not Jewish) is the primary reason the schools are closed.
4:28 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
The issue here is that not all faiths are being treated the same.
There is no honest explanation that can justify why schools are closed on major religious holidays for christians and jews, but not closed on muslim holidays.
Maybe MCPS never thought of this before as being unfair, but now it has been brought to their attention, let's hope that they will update the policy and treat all three faiths the same.
4:11 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
If the comments about celebrating diversity are genuine, all religious faiths should be treated the same. I don't see how can the school district justify the fact that schools close on christian and jewish holidays, but will not close on muslim holidays.
Even if muslim children are excused on their holidays, they are still missing classes they will have to catch up with, it is just not fair to the children, and it cannot be said that citizens of all faiths are being treated the same.
Let's stop acting as hypocrites and be fair to all.
4:28 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I love your comment. You sound level headed. You summed all the wise comments.
Jane Abraham
1:16 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Repeat and reiterate: It is a numbers game (Christian and Jewish teachers probably make up at least 80%). Schools would be empty without them on Jewish and Christian holidays. Not true with Islam or any of the other small religious groups. It truly is a logistics issue, not a discrimination issue. This sounds like little kids whining "It's not fair." No, life isn't.
4:37 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I believe we should include the two Muslim holidays .
Zaffer Mirza
4:40 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Zaffer M.
I want to thank Mr. Leventhal for his leadership and courage which he has shown on the issue of Muslim Holidays in MCPS. This proves that he is not just a "WORSHIPPPER OF THE RISING SUN" like most other politicians. He believes in fairness and equal treatment for his constituents. This issue has been raised on and off for the past thirty years. The Councilman is not advocating a prefrential treatment for The Muslims. He is simply asking the same treatment as Christian and Jewish student in the MCPS in regards to time off on their Holy Days. As a member of the muslim community in Motgomery County I applaude his resolve. I certainly will support if there is NO holidays for any religion. The MCPS focus all its attention and resources to the educations of our childrens as that should be the core and fundamental objective for the MCPS. That will also be in compliance of our costitution: SEPERATION OR CHUCH & STATE.
Zaffer M.
B Allen
9:21 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Zaffer, he is just pandering for your vote. Also a smoke screen to take our minds off the tax and fee increases they just passed and the reduction in services that our tax dollars are already paying for.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:02 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
As a Muslim, I don't we need to have Eid days for all students. In Islam, we cannot compel non-Muslims to our religious beliefs or celebrations. As a Muslim, I prefer we allow parents to give notice to teachers about the holidays and not compel non-Muslims to have a day off on a day they don't want to. American schools already have less schools than all other developed nations and the schools don't need more holidays.
Hindus have Diwali, Muslims have Eids and Sufi Muslims also have Mawlid celebrations and Shia Muslims have Muharram and Sikhs have Guru Nanak Day and there are so many religions.
If we do cater to all religions then we should have year-round schools. Only then we can accomodate to all religions. I think Eid day off should be only for Muslims as an excused absence.
Hussein Ali Usmani
6:17 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Hussein i desagree with you.
This is not about compelling non muslims to observe muslim believes, but if you want to put it this way, we can say that children of other faiths are currently being compelled to observe christian believes just because they are staying home on christian holidays. We are talking about days-off, and not worshipping, the same way muslim children stay home on christian and jewish holidays but don't have to go to churches or Syngogues.
When children are just excused they still have to catch up with whatever they missed during those holidays.
Let us just treat all the children the same way, accomodtae all for religious holidays, or accomodate none.
This will not prevent muslims to invite non muslims for Iftar, separate issues.
Rashid A. Makhdoom
11:57 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
A religious observance that can only be observed or performed on a specific, ordained and prescribed time of the day, and if not performed or observed at that prescribed time of the day it is considered not observed or performed, and that prescribed time of the day conflicts with the school time, then for that religious observance the school should be closed. The two Muslim holidays proposed by Councilmember Levethal had to be performed at a prescribed time of the day and if not performed during that prescribed time period are considered not performed, so the schools should be closed to allow Muslim student to perform their religious practices. If there are other religious obserances which are ordained to be performed or observed during a perscribed time of the day and that time of the day conflicts with the school time then those days should also be observed as closed days for the schools.
Rashid A. Makhdoom
Jane Abraham
12:14 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Bravo Mr. Usmani; what you said goes hand in hand with excused absence or floating holiday. One or two days per year will not cause failure!!
5:06 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
There is no need to waste to more school days on holidays for groups with small populations in the County. Leventhal is the lowest form of politician in the County. He just raised our taxes and then hired a food consultant and other unneeded county positions to cater to his whims. He supports illegal immigration and other lawless activities. When Islam or any other religion has enough weight in terms of students impacted by being out on non-traditional hoilidays, then raise this issue. Otherwise, dream on.
B Allen
9:37 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Brad, you are ABSOLUTLY right. leventhal and all the rest of the worthless dem councilmembers and exec, has continuously taken advantage of the taxpayers in MoCo by voting to raise our taxes and spend our money like it was his own. He also encouraged groups like ACORN and Casa to sign up illegals to vote, get drivers licenses, get on welfare, get free housing, medical, dental, education, etc. He and others like him are trying (as I stated before) create controversy in order to create a revolution here. He feels he is more empowered now with the community organizer and Saul Alinsky follower in the white house. All the more reason I don't trust leventhal.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:15 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Before Muslims ask for time off, I think we should invite our non-Muslim friends and neighbors, teachers and classmates for Iftar dinner at our mosques or in our homes. I think it is useless to have a Ramadan debate at the political level when there has not been much done at the grassroots level.
Historically, many Jews did not have Jewish holidays off right away. The Jewish community invited people to join them for Seder dinners regardless of the faith of their guests.
Muslims should focus on more interfaith activities during Eid Holidays and invite more non-Muslims to visit them. We should have that but not use political tools to notify the world about our holidays. It should be the other way around.
First and foremost we need more businesses to have discounts on food items for Ramadan and clothing apparel sales for Eid holidays. Once the community benefits as being guests and feel that we welcome them, the people who oppose us will be interested in taking time off as well.
I think we need share a drink of Rooh Afza and bowl of Siwaiyan with every American during Ramadan. You really can't hate people who provide such yummy food.
America fought with Japan, Korea and Vietnam. but if you ask an American about Japan, they will first think of sushi, with Korean they will think about Kimchee and Vietnamese people it is pho.
Muslims should focus saying Salam and feed their fellow man.
6:30 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
You know what, contrary to what you think, i don't believe muslims have to accept to suffer or to be mistreated or to disregards their rights, or to endure anything the jewish community had to endure in the past for unfortunate reasons, this is the 21st century America my brother, we are not going back to what shouldn't even be there in the first place.
With all due respect, please stop telling muslims that they should not be lobbying for things they believe are only fair!
As far as inviting non muslims for Iftar, it has been happening every year, and will still happen every Ramadan, this has nothing to do with muslims lobbying for accomodtaions and fairness.
Please stop demobilizing a community that's only asking to be treated equally.
Arshad Qureshi
11:01 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Just following up on Hussein Ali Usmani's suggestion, The Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring has been doing just that for a number of years now.
This year, Ramadan starts July 20, 2012. Iftar (breaking of the day long fast) will be held at sunset each day. State and County officials, Schools Teachers, Police and Firemen, neighboring churches. Interfaith groups have been routinely invited in the prior years and will be invited this year too.
Center is open to ALL. Please stop by anytime and feel free to join us for Iftar during the month of Ramadan.
Arshad Qureshi
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:23 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
We shouldn't care about the pecentage of the staff member's faiths. We are all one human family. We should focus on improving the stupid American school system. We have the least amount of schools days compared to other industrial countries.
We actually need to have at least 20 more schools in our school year. American students take Algebra in 10th grade while 7th grader in other countries complete Algebra and Geometry.
We need to have meaningful education content discussions and improve your schools. India celebrates almost every religious holiday (Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Muslim, Jain etc) but they have more school days!
We need more schools days and smaller summer breaks. American is no longer an agricultural nation and it does not need kids help with the harvest during Spring Break. Spring Break should be killed and Summer vacations need a liposuction. We need lazy brains of American kids to be drowning in math equations and more science. We need to do this otherwise our kids will loose more jobs to my homeland, India!
6:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Well guess what Ali usmani, muslims have only two Eid the entire year, so i wonder why you are making it sound like they are asking for a week or more, like chrismas break for example.
Please drop the drama, only two days trough the entire year !!!
B Allen
9:44 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Hussein Ali, you sound more level headed then that M. Diallo...His post sounds like he is trying to "stir things up" and create controversy. @Diallo, they don't call it Christmas break because of you people ranting and raving and throwing temper tantrum, about it and to seperate church and state. Well you got your way and you want more??? Now you want to reinstate a bond between church an state by giving more days off for religious holidays? You people want your cake and eat it too...you definitly do not make any sense at all because you cannot keep track of what you post.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:38 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Basically majority of Muslims go for Eid prayers in the morning, visit some relatives and take a long nap and have celebration parties in the evening. As a result, I never took the whole Eid day off. I only took time off for Eid prayers and went back to school to catch up with my Calculus and AP classes. When I came home from school, most relatives were still napping. Eid dinner parties started around 8 PM.
So instead of napping at home, I stayed at school and kept up-to-date with my studies. I recommend all Muslim parents encourage their kids to take easy electives in the morning and difficult classes in the afternoon.
Just take time off for Eid prayers because majority of Muslims do not do anything after Eid prayers but nap. At least all the Indians and Pakistanis. We need to make sure our kids stay ahead in the education game.
I think the only day that Muslims should take off is the day after lailultul Qadr. Because we spend the whole night praying, I think the after is important for our kids to rest. I always to the day after lailututal qadr off but only prayer time for Eid.
6:53 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
You family would nappe after Eid prayer, it doesn't mean all muslim families do the same thing.
There is a way Eid is supposed to be celebrated, muslims are trying to make that possible for their families, don't make it sound like they are asking too much.
Hussein Ali Usmani
5:46 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@ Jane Abraham - Your comment - "In agreement with France, headscarves should not be allowed in public schools; hats are not."
Now you are against the first amendment. I agree schools days should not be decreased for another holiday but no one should prevent any child from practicing their first amendment right. Jews can wear yarmulks (skull caps), Sikhs have their Padgee and Muslim girls wear a Hijab (only a minority of girls do and younger girls are not required to wear a Hijab).
Hats are banned because some hat symbols are used for gangs. This is a different case.
6:39 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
You see Ali usmani, this is what you have started by getting out there and talking like muslims are asking too much, when they are only asking to be treated like others.
Now these comments about banning the headscarf and the like, you allowed them to be brought up against your own community.
I wonder if you truly have any clue about how Eid is supposed to be celebrated, you are speaking like you know it all, but you are only creating trouble for muslims.
As a muslim, the least you should be doing is to be at least fair to all, but everything you wrote is telling muslims they should let go off this, or they should let go off that, why aren't others letting go off what they believe is necessary for them.
I cannot believe this is a muslim talking?
B Allen
9:47 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@M.Diallo...don't be disrespectful to someone who is clearly heads above you in intellect. I would definitly say that Hussein Ali is more level headed than you would ever be. You are all over the place with your comments...get a life.
6:26 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Like you know what is intellect :-) LOL
I am following you all over the place because of all you nonsensical comments trying to spin the facts.
You seem to have an agenda here based on personnal issues with Leventhal, that have nothing to do with schools or muslim holidays.
The problem you have with me is that i am not playing in your hands.
By the way, I can clearly see that you having a life.
B Allen
8:40 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
yeah, leventhal is a lier, cheat, crook, loves stirring things up and loves picking MoCo taxpayers pockets using us at ATM machines (just as the unconstitional cap and trade tax he shoved down our throats). He thinks it is his way and not our way (including you and others like you). He wants to control your life and you let him by defending him. Politicians work for us, not us for them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7iyT9HEDZs
B Allen
8:46 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
and btw Diallo...I would expect you to not (as you put it) "play into my hands" You are a typical left wing nutjob who only see what you believe. Too bad you can't see through the deceipt and the lies from the leftist like leventhal...you can attack me all your want, I expect you people to do so when you cannot accept the truth. That is all you people know what to do, but you can't handle it when you are called on it...you are not as smart as you may think you are
10:15 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Interesting, you came after me and you are now playing the victim? :-) LOL
Wether i am smart or not is a different debate.
Mohamed Ibrahim
6:50 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
First, I like to thank George for the recommendation he made to the school board. I have a proposed solution that does not involve religion:
Why doesn't MCPS allow their teachers to submit a vacation plan, showing the days they know for sure they want to take off before advertising the calendar?.
If there are a significant number of teachers taking off certain days, to the extent that warrants the whole MCPS to close, then MCPS should mark those days as closed days for that reason.
However, if those teachers are concentrated in few schools, then may be those specific schools can take a professional day off on those days, without shutting the whole MCPS.
The same argument can also be applied to students. Can parents before the end of the year tell which days their kids will not go to school the following year ? May be there are certain areas, with higher concentration of certain groups that would like to take a specific day off. This is worth considering since it doesn't help sending in teachers while the majority of the students are off.
That would also give MCPS a chance to plan ahead and provide enough educational hours for the students.
6:53 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
The discussion so far strongly reminds me of Theodore Roosevelt's famous "hyphenated American" speech, in which he warns that the greatest threat to peace, prosperity, and indeed the very existence of the USA is the over emphasis of our differences. Although arguably he might have had mostly national origin in mind, for example, "Swedish-American," the logic certainly applies to religious preference as well, for example,"Hindu-American." I think Teddy would be rolling in his grave if he knew the present course of Montgomery County. For those who sing praises of celebrating our diversity, I would argue that it would be more productive to celebrate our common interests. To that end, I find that official designating school holidays to accomodate, and to name them for, any particular religion (not just Islam), offensive and divisive. It smacks of "in your face" religion, that is, imposing your religious preferences upon everyone else by means of a designated public holiday. We ought to do away with all of them in favor of simply taking "personal days" off, with no penalty for missing exams. On the other hand, students deserve a break from the tedium of attending classes five days per week. I suggest evenly spaced holidays, for example, on the equinoxes, the solstices, and perhaps midway between the two. Perhaps students could adjust their religious observances to fit into those.
7:05 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Your proposition is at least fair to all.
I beleieve we should either accomodate all students or accomodate none at all, because you cannot gine an honest convincing explanation to the muslim children as to why school is closed on christian and jewish holidays and not on muslim holidays.
So let's be fair to all by accomodating all children or not accomdating any children for religious holidays.
7:49 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
jerry: this does not make sense. easter, christmas, rosh hashanah, yom kippur, christmas are set days/seasons, have been for hundreds of years. How could students adjust their religious observances?
6:58 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I feel so good having all these experts on Islam sending e-mails today. Cause I know that Islam is the religion of tolerance. Despite what my Coptic Christian friends from Egypt tell me and what I see on TV with the "Arab Spring". And despite what I have heard about Jews who were forced to leave every Arab country in the late 40's-50's or face persecution and death. Lets not forget the problems now being faced in the Netherlands, France, Sweden, etc, that are in the press week after week. Yes the religion of tolerance George Bush told us. What ever happened to the Victory Mosque in New York City??
7:24 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
My fellow Americans, please do not think these holidays are anti Jew or Christian. We are all the religions of the desert, whether we like it or not we are the followers of Abraham or Ibrahim. We should support each other in American way. Support the Muslim holidays, so my child can also say that this is my holiday. Just remember, some of us still can not believe an Afro American is the President of United States and most powerful man in the world. I'm sure when Mr. Obama was born, none of your parents would have even thought about having a Black President. Don't you think those people regret that now. Do you want to be one of those people who still live in past. Spread love not hate. Bring our nation closer and fill the gaps. God bless America and down to haters..........
7:30 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Very well said, this should be the spirit driving this debate, love, not hate!!!
Hussein Ali Usmani
7:28 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Brad, I understand where you are coming from. All of us who are Muslim on this wall do not relate with the punks on the other side of the world who have been following extremist views. If you visit one of our local mosques or visit mine, you will be amazed to see how diverse the Muslim community is here.
Then you mention stuff about Europe. I have been to Europe and majority of Muslims are living peacefully. There are
Yes it was wrong what many Middle Eastern countries did to their Jewish citizens, but it was also wrong for Israelis like Irgun and Hagganah to do what they did to Palestinians. I agree that Coptic christians do not have the same rights that Muslims do in Egypt, but we American Muslims want to fight back against that.
You can't blame a religion for the actions of those who practice it. Many white christians in US burned African american Churches and did not allow black people from even drinking from the same water fountain. But that doesn't mean I go around yelling at all white people.
Brad, give me something original, you seem to be a parrot repeating everything Foxnews says.
Again I already invited you to visit our mosque and I hope you invite us to your Church. Sarcasm aside, Islam and Christianity and Judaism all have the same Abrahamic roots.
Speaking of Coptic, ignorant people have burned and Arab American Churches and Coptic friends in the US have been assualted in the US and their only crime is that they looked like a Muslim.
Hussein Ali Usmani
7:34 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@M.Diallo - Majority of Muslim parents are happy getting time off for their kids for the holidays. We never want to force our holiday on everyone. I'd rather invite y'all to have iftar dinner with me.
When it comes to schools, let us talk about more important issues like improving Math and Science skills! More foreign language class and mandatory AP classes for all high school students.
If all students take a full load of AP classes, then all students can be sophomore when they are in college. Students can actually graduate from college in 3 or 3.5 years. Imagine millions of dollars saved in grants and loans!
We need more career oriented and more rigorous classes that challenge our children's minds to be more creative, scientific and focus on how they can improve the economy.
Holidays are important but these discussions keep us behind from more serious problems. The number one problem - American schools suck. We prepare a huge chunk of American college prep high school students to become future college dropouts.
We need more discipline in American schools and more challenging teachers.
10:00 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Unbelievable !
A non muslim has proposed this policy change in order to be fair to muslim children in the school district, it is incredible to see that it is a muslim that come out here and throw a campaign to discredit the proposal calling it not important or not needed.
I am even not sure what to make of your comments Husseyni, you are talking like observing two days total in a year for muslim holidays will make it impossible for the school system to survive, how many days are these schools observing for christmas and easter breaks?
As long as time-off is not for observing a muslim holidays you have no objections, right?
Are you a muslim or are you posing as a muslim?
If you are truly a muslim, well understand that what's not important to you is important to a big majority of muslims, and i encourage the community to go for it and not let you discourage them.
Fact is you will find guys like Husseini in every community who don't take their own community needs as important as other communities needs, you just need to know how to work around them when you need something that's only fair to all.
Contrary to Husseini, i don't think too much is being asked here.
By the way Husseini, Sharon gave you the Kudos you were looking for, i hope you are enjoying it!
B Allen
9:52 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Hussein...YOU DA MAN!!!! like I said before diallo can't keep up with the number of lies, untruths, non factual info that it has posted here. His comments sound more like a radical wannabe and we have NO PLACE for people like that here.
5:37 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
I was also thinking that you are a radical whose only objection is that muslims are being accomodted.
I know your type, people like you cannot bring themeselves to approve anything that has the "muslim label", be it fair or not.
So what you are doing here is nothing new, we muslims have seen worst, and we have dealt with it.
Call me a radical if it satifies your urges, that will not change the facts here, and Leventhal was honest enough as a leader to see it, and courageous enough to bring it up.
Whatever grieffs you have against this man is your problem to deal with, do not mix it up with the current proposal asking for fairness on behalf of muslim children.
6:55 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
I am not sure what you mean by wannabee but it sur sound like another ignorant comment.
I am a muslim, a citizen of this country who will not shy away from claiming what he sees fair for his community.
Your agressivity and dishonesty about this subject will not make any diffecerence, but you can certainly keep on going that road, not sure you can help it anyway!
B Allen
8:58 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Diallo...you throw the lable "bigot" around, you sound like you are the bigot. Attacking a "brother" muslim because of what he believes? Give me a break, you bouce all over. Get off your "soapbox", drop the subject becuase you assume too much and you definitely take the cake on the first three letters of the word ASSume...you are a fool playing into the hand of leventhal
10:20 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Now you want to make it sound like i am attacking a brother muslim, you are too good!
But you know what, my opinion will remain the same wether i am addressing a muslim or a non muslims, so drop it, it won't work.
Hussein Ali Usmani
7:45 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
@Jerry - there are some religions where you cannot adjust your religious observances. Islamic holidays are on a lunar year and the lunar year is 354 days. So ever year Ramadan starts 11 days earlier. In 2000, we had Eid Al Fitr on January 6th and this year we will have Eid Al Fitr in mid-August.
Moving right along, we already have a solution. Religious day off with parent note.
Since we have a solution, we should not reinvent the wheel!
I would love to have more people learn about Ramadan and my culture's holiday foods. Indian Ramadan dinners are the best by the way!
I don't want to shove my holiday into someone who already doesn't understand my religion (i.e. Brad). I'd rather invite him to an iftar dinner instead. I don't need the government to notify about my holiday. That is my community's job.
During Ramadan, Americans spend lots of money on food, clothes, and travel. Unfortunately American companies have not taken full advantage of this besides Best Buy and Whole Foods.
Macy's, Safeway and Coca Cola are considering doing more marketing during Ramadan. American Muslim community is the fastest growing population and we did not suffer from subprime mortgage mess because shariah law is against subprime loans. We have a lot of disposable income and companies should take advantage of that.
11:28 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
It isnt reinventing the wheel. It is respect. In Dearborn Michigan they respect Ramandan. even this past summer 2011 when Ramadan was during the summer, the islamic athletes don't eat or drink while in football/ baseball/track practice until after sunset so the PUBLIC schools are flexible and have practices AT NIGHT.
B Allen
9:04 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Hussein, it is not shoving anything down peoples throat (as leventhal is trying to do to get muslims to vote for him next go around) that we are saying. You bring up a good point about "So ever year Ramadan starts 11 days earlier. In 2000, we had Eid Al Fitr on January 6th and this year we will have Eid Al Fitr in mid-August", should the school days off schedule be different every year??? What if the holidays fall on days when school is not in session, like during summer break...should MoCoPS give the days off anyway? I wonder...now that will stir up some debate for the libs to sink their teeth into.
Hussein Ali Usmani
7:54 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
More importantly we need to ban junk food in schools. We are preparing our kids to become future cancer or heart fail statistics. In Africa people die because there is no food. Americans eat themselves to death. We need healthy food options and rigorous aerobic and strength training PE classes. PE should be mandatory throughout high school.
We should not make fun of fat kids but fat kids should not be fat. Fat kids make future heart attack patients and cost millions to treat. We need to end kids from being fat! American fat kids eat more in one day than Africans eat in one year in calories. So let's get our kids' bodies moving and their minds enriched.
We need healthy and smart high school graduates.
Al Khan
9:45 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
As we have holidays on Jewish religious days the same should be allowed for Muslim Holidays in Montgomery County. Compulsion is not the style of Islamic faith, as such , it could be voluntary holidays for Muslim Students
Joe Thomas
10:50 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
George Leventhal is just trolling for Muslim votes. If these holidays are so important then let the Muslim students stay home for the day. We don't need anymore of these phony school holidays.
B Allen
9:05 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Joe, exactly but you can't tell these kool aide drinking libs that...it may hurt their egos when they find out it is true.
10:23 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Joe Thomas
trolling for a community's support is not new in politics, if he cares about our needs enough to bring them up, why will muslims not support him?
Shomail Haider
10:56 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
It should have been done long ago. However; still a positive thing and should be done.
Mimi Hassanein
11:01 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
Yes, I support George's request. I have been asking to close MCPS for Muslim Holiday since Dr. Paul Vance was the Superintendent of MCPS when I had my 3 children in the school system. Now I have 15 grandchildren that I have to worry about.
This request IS LONG OVERDUE.
Thank you George for hearing our voices and taking action!
Mimi Hassanein
Brien Kinkel
11:23 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I am an MCPS substitute teacher. I have taught Muslim students at all grade levels, and have worked with Muslim teachers and staff in schools throughout the County. It would be appropriate and welcome to observe the two main Muslim holidays by closing schools for a day of observance.
11:58 pm on Thursday, May 31, 2012
I applaud all of those with differing faiths who are asking for consideration for their major observances. As a teacher in the county, I get amused by those who are not involved in the day to day operations of schools to make comments on what is needed to make schools better etc. "If you could only walk in my shoes...."
Please do not confuse the issue of having off for the Jewish holidays as being preferential to Judaism and slighting other faiths. Honoring all major religious holidays is impractical. MCPS recognizes the demographics of the staff and students when deciding which holidays to observe.
As I stated in an earlier post, some schools have 20-25% of their staff who are Jewish and in many of those schools the demographics of the students are even higher. (My school is much less).
Currently, there are not enough QUALITY substitute teachers available who know content and can handle student behaviors to accommodate all of the jobs on a daily basis. Any student will tell you that when there is a substitute teacher, significantly less learning is going on. "Subs" are easy prey for many students. If a school has 5, 10, or even 20 % of their teachers gone, what learning is really going on that day? Would you really want your student in a school with that scenario?
When and if, other religious groups have similar demographics within the school system (teachers and students), that is when this discussion needs to begin.
Saeed Rana
12:02 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
George: Thanks for the thought and support. Islam must be recognized as a follower of the Abrahamic faith. It will be a just act.
1:51 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Motivation aside, (George Levental- votes from the ultra left wannabe MoCo idiots; Saqib Ali- some clout in his Christian household- sorry buddy - your wife is doing a fantastic job raising your kids CHRISTIAN and they are getting CHRISTIAN holidays off- deal with it) they've gotta show the data. The numbers have to support the Jew days and the Muslim days.It's all or nothing. I think it's hilarious that Ali spends so much time talking about issues in defense of Muslims, but he's married to a lilly-white Christian women...even he prefers Christians.. where it matters most. lol
10:55 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Jo I know his neighbors and I've been told his wife is stuck with him and would leave if she had the money. Ali is a controlling monster who pushes his wife around and is a obnoxious jerk to his kids.So controlling that he tired to force her to have an abortion when they found out their first baby was going to be mentally retarded. Read about it online. You can't make this stuff up. He resents her for being Christian and she regrets marrying someone who hates Christians and Jews. They put on a good act, but it's a horrible marriage. Why a good Christian girl would want anything to do with the likes of this MUSLIM creep is beyond me. I suspect it has nothing to do with religion, but all about economics. She married him for money (cause it wasn't for looks!) and he wanted a trophy. Period end of story. I'm warning my daughter against making such a foolish choice.
6:35 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
The fact that you and BFP are reduced to such shameless personal attacks says nothing about Mr. Saqib Ali and volumes about you.
B Allen
7:07 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
@all those who vote for the likes of leventhal and all the other dem crooks in MoCo and MD and like to attack me and call me names here for what I post. Attack me all you want, I LOVE to see ALL you people get flustered. That is the reason why you people call me names. That is the typical attack method used by you libs. You people live in la-la land. I post my comments to make you people look stupid, I know you don't get it, but it is fun to hit you with the truth, because you cannot handle it. I care about eveyone, even you people who don't get it. What I don't care about is all your stupid little "pet" special interests...It is NOT about you and YOUR so called "special interest", it is about everyone around you, your friends, your families, your neighbors, etc. The left are following , in this case, Alinsky's Rules for radicals i.e. "Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy" and step by step the Communist Manifesto. Read both of these and you will see, if you don't , then take the blinders off and "think outside the box", if you are capable.
11:15 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
People, vote for whoever you believe stand for values of justice and fairness in the country, don't let anybody tell you who you should or should not be supporting, this is your decision to make based on your own sense of truth, justice, fairness and love (not hate) in society.
B Allen
4:22 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
yeah, that is why I vote for those who are LESS likely to bring up NON issues such as this just to cause controversy, in the name of "fairness". That is why I would NEVER vote for someone like leventhal. If only you people knew how much of your hard earned taxdollars he has scammed form you, I know you would change your tune about him. If not, I feel sorry for you...not really
4:54 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
B.Allen, don't feel sorry for me, as know better than you what is or is not right for me.
Please quit insulting people just because they don't agree with you, try respecting others and make your point without behaving the way you are right now.
Don't waste your time telling me who is doing what or what not, you have the right to your opinions, people who vote for this guy have the right to their opinions as well.
So quit feeling sorry for us, and please stop insulting people !!!
B Allen
9:57 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Not insults Diallo, just the truth and the facts...too bad you can't take it. I DO feel sorry for you with your one sided viewpoint. We don't need people like leventhal and you trying to create controvery. This is a NON issue and should never have been brought up...unless now you people want to reinstate a bond between church and state.
5:28 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
B.Allen, it is clear that this is a NON issue for you, everything you wrotes shows that.
But who are you to speak for us muslims?
You really are a case my dear!
B Allen
9:11 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Diallo, you tell me I am a case??? sounds to me like you have an anger management problem or maybe just a chip on your shoulder. You are the one that attacks, as you did you fellow muslim (Hussein Ali) because he came out with a realistic viewpoint on the non issue that leventhal made into an issue. Leventhal is really a scumbag if you follow what he has done to the taxpayers in MoCo. If you look and see how he likes to use us as ATM machines and increase our taxes for as he calls it, the social good, but takes away our services that we pay for...you may change your tune. I did after being in the democrat party for 30 yrs. I could not stand to see what he and others like him were doing to ALL taxpayers, even the ones that voted for him and others like him.
8:17 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
On 2nd thought I think I want to take up the Muslim official's offer to attend a ramadan feast one evening at the local mosque. Meet some new folks and a free meal. Can I bring my girlfriend or does that violate Sharia Law?
11:02 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
You can bring anybody you want to any mosque or muslim community center in your area. The invitation is not meant to convert you or chanjge your way of life.
The only goal behind it is to give non muslims the opportunity to know how muslims in their communities live and worship.
To put it differently, get to know the muslims by personal experience, not by listening to muslim haters.
B Allen
10:01 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Diallo, get the chip off your shoulder. Noone dislikes muslims, I have been to many homes and have had great food with my muslim friends. Democrats are the ones that try to pit everyone against you, don't let them fool you. You will find more friends that are conservative than you will in the democrat party, the party of the Klu Klux Klan. Hell the democrat party are the biggest racists out there, why do you think after 50 yrs kids in inner cities are still failing in schools, on drugs, on welfare, are unemployed, etc. It is because the dems run the cities...look at the facts.
5:26 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
For saying that nobody hates muslims, you must not be living in this country, you are soooo out of touch it is unbelievable.
But it doesn't matter anyway as you seem to have a pretty clear agenda here, go for it, it will not stop us for asking what we see as fair and just.
Mitch Joy
8:53 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Yes, MCPS should indeed give these days. As a teacher in a diverse MCPS school, when the Eids (Muslim Holidays) starts, students have to take off school therefore missing work for religious reasons. Furthermore, I believe that since the other 2 Abrahamic religions get their high holidays off, so should this Abrahamic religion.
Mary Bulla Sanchez
9:23 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
But Mitch, do you only think that Abrahamic religions should get their holidays? What about Hindu festivals? Buddhist holidays? Where do we stop? I'm not saying that I don't think they should be given those days - I'm just saying that the picture is bigger than the yes or no that some people give so easily. The size of the Christian and Jewish population within the Montgomery County Schools (including teachers, of course) makes it difficult to effectively have classes on the holidays for those faiths. Is it the same for the Muslim population in Montgomery County? Has it proven disruptive when those students take their excused absence on those days? Has it proven difficult to replace Muslim teachers who observe those holy days? That's the real crux of the matter in my opinion.
11:05 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Well said Mitch, treat all children equally, two days out of the entire years will not kill the school system.
B Allen
10:03 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Mitch, you just want a couple more days off. I am sure you would want it with pay also? I am sure the worthless teachers union will then try and press for that.
Captain Cook
9:31 am on Friday, June 1, 2012
Excellent! The liberal cake eaters can't get enough of this 'new' cause.... Let's just close everything and sing songs around the ole camp fire - oops, sorrry liberals, I forgot we need 'fake' fires so not to foul your air..... get a grip people - stop drinking the kool aid....
12:46 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
While I do not support the proposal (for reasons I have already explained above), I also think that it is incorrect to label this a "liberal" issue. If anything, my experience both in Pakistan and here in the US is that it is the "devoutly religious" people (any religion, including christianity, judaism and islam) who seek to promote religious rituals and traditions, and sometimes (as in this case) this is at the expense of promoting core values of the kind that are best learnt by children in schools and homes and not in "houses of God". And guess what "religious people" are in every society? "liberal" or "conservative"?
Hussein Ali Usmani
12:30 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Brad - You and your girlfriend are most welcome to visit my mosque or any mosque. (and no she doesn't need to wear a Hijab.) Just visit us as if you were going to a friends Thanksgiving dinner, Christmas dinner or Passover Seder dinner.
Again you cannot violate Shariah law anymore than you cannot violate Canon law in a Catholic Church or Halacha Law in a Synagogue. A true Muslim (like me) would like to convey that the first thing about Shariah Law is that you have to obey the laws and respect the customs of the country you live in. There is no complusion in Islam. Majority of American Muslims have nothing to do with the radical punks in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
Brad, You and your girlfriend really really have to try Rooh Afzah. Most Arab Muslims don't have it but most Indian and Pakistani Muslims always have it. It is a rose syrup you mix in milk, water or ice cream. Once you taste it there is no going back. More over you have to try Siwaiyan, and Samosas. If you go to an Arab iftar, you have to try Molokhiya and Koshari. If you come to my home, you will have to try Biryani.
Just one warning, please let us know if you are full. Muslims are compelled by Shariah Law to keep filling empty plates of our guest with more food. We really need news articles about Iftar foods during Ramadan.
To all Muslims, the best way to stop people from hating is to share our food. Say Salam and feed your fellow man!
B Allen
4:35 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Hussein, noone hates you. I have been to muslim friends homes and have been fed things that I had no idea what I was eating but I enjoyed all of it. What we don't like is politicians like leventhal (and their water carriers) shooting their mouths off, as liberal democrats do, about issues just to cause controversy and conflict between people. We would NEVER have been discussing this topic if leventhal kept his mouth shut.
5:10 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Hussein, i don't live where you live, but this interfaith dialogue and iftar invitations have been going on for years, i will say that again, they have been going on for years, so i am not sure what is your point!
As to people who hate muslims, some will come to understand that they are wrong, but some will only stop hating when muslims make themeselves disappear somehow, and we all know that will not happen.
We are all americans, the fact that some people don't want to accept this fact is not ending anytime soon. Therefore muslims will gladly work with those (like Leventhal) who are open minded and are willing to take us as fellow citizens, to accept that we all have to be treated equally as americans etc...
As to those who think that muslims are less americans than they are, we will stand up to this argument anywhere the need arises.
Wether you like Leventhal or not, that is not the issue here, so let's not avoid the issue.
All these children need to be treated eqaully regardless of their religious belief, and that is not happening right now. So this proposal from Levnethal is only fair, either accept is or drop or the religious breaks out of MCPS to make it a leveled field.
This is about being fair to all the children, it doen not matter how some are trying to spin the whole story here, fact is there is currently no fairness.
Jeff Hawkins
12:33 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Mary Bulla Sanchez
Excellent point and comment.....kudos
12:46 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
The easiest way to solve this "problem" is to vote Leventhal out of office. He continues to be a blight on the citizens of Montgomery County. Property tax increases, bag taxes, energy taxes, speed cameras, ambulance fees, day laborer centers for illegal aliens - George Leventhal loves it all and more. Tax and Spend. George and the rest of the ountyy Council stooges needs to be sent on a permanent Hajj.
B Allen
4:41 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
@Brad, exactly what I have been trying to get through top the libs that vote for the guy and others like him. If people only knew what he has done to this county in the name of fairness and testifying to his own personal goodness. If they only followed the money and see the waste that he has given away, hard earned taxpayers dollars, to people and groups to buy his votes. The whole county council is running a ponzi scheme, tapping those who work hard, running up our taxes and taking more and more services from us. This criminal activity goes all the way up to OWEmalley. But then this is an another topic of discussion. If people would follow the money and not try to pontificate their so called goodness as a liberal, they will see that they are getting screwed, especailly when they try to mask everything with an issue like this. I guess it is being brought up to ease our minds for all the tax increases we will be seeing here real soon.
5:18 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Money trail, taxes and what not....whole different animal that has nothing to do with this current proposal.
This issue at hand is clear, MCPS closes schools on christian and jewish holidays, but it does not close them on muslim holidays.
The guy thinks that the policy lacks fairness, and he is right on the money!
Let's make it fair, close schools for the two muslim holidays or drop all religious breaks out of schools.
There is no need to keep on spinning the story, facts are clear !!!
5:44 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
are you telling me you don't know on which christian holidays school closes?
i am sure you areoking right? :-)
5:55 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
I have nothing against christian or jewish holidays, but if you feel like closing on only two days to accomodate muslim holidays is a problem, then how can you then tell me that there any fairness in treatment of these kids?
B Allen
8:59 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@Mdiallo, you have not clue. Now what you are saying is you don't want to see a separation of chuch and state. You want to see days off for a religious holiday. You people on the left want your cake and eat it too. No wonder dems screw things up all the time, they can't remember which lie they told 5 minutes ago, so the story keeps changing. There is NO mention of Christmas break or Easter Break...it is winter break and spring break now, because you people wanted no reference to the christian holidays and to keep the separation between. Get the facts straight and quit spinning the lies to try and cover up for a worthless county councilmember and all the other dems that screw things up. Not insults, just the facts and the truth...we know where leventhal is going with this and you people cannot fool us. As a dem for 30 yrs, I sat in meetings and heard all this crap and that is why I tore up my membership card and stopped giving to them. I don't hear any GOPers starting issues like the dems do...like I said before...spoiled little brats.
7:15 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Be whatever you want to be, democrat, republican, independent or whatever else out there, that is your problem, we don't need to know all that !
The current proposal is not linked to your political colors, so drop the useless comments about your political life.
If you have something against Leventhal then vote against the guy, end of story !!!
As to the way MCPS children are treated when it comes to religious holidays, there is currently no fairness, and thanks Leventhal for being courageous enough to bring the subject back to the floor.
5:20 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Good Grief - they barely go to school now! Can we please cut back on the holidays and days off? My high schooler has not been to school for a full day in over a week due to exams, HSA testing, and AP testing. Seriously, how many full weeks did they attend school this year?
6:05 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Diallo and others, this so-called debate is over. Nothing against our Muslim friends but you just don't have the student/teacher count to justify my children missing yet another 2 days of school. Maybe that will change in time. But for now save it cause its not going to happen.
B Allen
9:15 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Diallo, all of your posts here just shows that you have a chip on your shoulder. You need to get with the program.
6:50 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Fortunately, this kind of decision is not up to one individual, it is called democracy.
Let's wait and see!
7:05 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
By the way, i don't see anything wrong with this kind of debate, i think it is a healthy one to have in the community if we can look at each other as equals.
7:54 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Yes, Diallo democracy is a wonderful thing so you should consider yourself a lucky Muslim. I can't think of one muslim country that has it. But u know that. Islam and democracy don't mix well. I look forward to the debate as your followers are such a small portion of our community.
9:13 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
"I can't think of one muslim country that has it."
LOL, i REALLY hope that's a joke going over my head or something, but judging from your other comments I would guess you just don't know very much of anything on this subject. Feel free to read a bit or think a little harder before coming up with these nonsensical comments.
9:49 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Brad -
No matter what people say here, you will not enlighten your mind. It appears that you have never read a book about Muslim countries or Islam. It seems that you follow someone with deep hatred to Islam and is full of Islamophobia. Could you enlighten us with what is your religious affiliation so I can avoid it or convert away from it, because it surly sound full of hatred.
9:50 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Brad -
No matter what people say here, you will not enlighten your mind. It appears that you have never read a book about Muslim countries or Islam. It seems that you follow someone with deep hatred to Islam and is full of Islamophobia. Could you enlighten us with what is your religious affiliation so I can avoid it or convert away from it, because it surly sound full of hatred..
5:18 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Brad, you are only showing your ignorance about islam.
First, those country you are refering to are not following
Second, we are american muslims living in america, why are you telling us about what's happening in other muslim countries?
You won't admit that you are being hypocrites but this is one example, you just cannot digest the fact that american muslims are as american as you are, but you better accept this fact because there is nothing you can do about it.
Saqib Ali
8:49 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
"Yes, Diallo democracy is a wonderful thing so you should consider yourself a lucky Muslim. I can't think of one muslim country that has it. "Yes, Diallo democracy is a wonderful thing so you should consider yourself a lucky Muslim. I can't think of one muslim country that has it."
Most people who say such silly things are willfully ignoring the numerous Muslim democracies due to their own entrenched Islamiphobia. It is well known that Turkey, Tunisia, Mali, Tanzania, Bangladesh, Bosnia and many other countries are democracies. They are all Muslim-majority countries.
10:10 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Oh please. What's that got to do with anything? The point is you want us to figure out how to find the money to hire a sitter (all day) for yet another day when I have to work! You can get your holiday just as soon as your wife comes here to babysit my kids on all the days YOU want off. Hypocritical jerk.
11:00 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Gosh, how could I forget those world leaders Mali and Bangladesh. Tunisia, the jury is still out. Where are the arab countries? Oh wait, the muslims who live in Israel proper are experiencing democracy in a first world nation. Not Phobia but facts.
12:39 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
brad: ? this related to having 2 muslim holidays in MCPS how ?
6:12 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
You should be rushing to the library instead of waisting your time talking about a subject you have no clue about.
If only you knew how bad you are displaying your lack of knowledge, you would be carefull when writing.
M. Jameel
12:39 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Holy days.......schools are closed for only one religious group or two, and not for any other ? One Nation Under God.......of only one or two religious groups? It is not a numbers game! Equal Justice for all, means for ALL! Either every American is treated Equally in the 'holidays policy' or no one has the right to be given a preferential treatment. Given the logistics of abiding by the Bill of Rights, let there be Two floating Holidays, i.e. two days in a year, chosen/selected by each group, and only its children take off while the schools stay open. By eliminating schools closings on any holiday, the school year can be actually extended by additional at least six days to stay open for at least 186 days a year instead of 180. More instructions, better education.
5:57 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@ M.Jameel
Great comment you posted there, like i said this issue is about the lack of fairness in MCPS policy.
You nailed it very well.
9:49 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Earlier, B Allen commented:
B Allen
9:02 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
@jrentz1...you are being educated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving
B Allen, thank you for your contribution.
However, I still assert that Thanksgiving is a religious holiday. The article states that Thanksgiving is celebrated as a secular holiday, and it is by many. Christmas is celebrated as a secular holiday by many, though it and Thanksgiving are still religious holidays.
12:17 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Do those of you who advocate for the closure of Montgomery County Schools for Muslim holidays, support the right of Israel to exist in peace as a sovereign nation state, and homeland for the Jews?
6:05 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Are you serious?????
What does Israel has to do with us making decisions for our school system in the US?
I told you people (jnrentz1 and the like of B.Allen) but you won't listen, it does not matter how hard you try spinning the subject, the facts are very clear, and they will remain so.
So keep on trying! :-) LOL
1:02 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Diallo, I tire of this conversion. You clearly need to feel "equal" to others and you demand respect. Clearly you must be on welfare or similar public dole to have so much time to preach your hate and disrespect of others. Respect is earned and given to others in mutual doses. Unfortunately Your religion does not allow for equal repect of others. We are all infidels! Lol. Like the vast majority of muslims globally u are undereducated and your boasting is hollow nonsense. Muslim contributions to the world ended with the global age of islam centuries ago. Its quite sad, so many people and so little education or technology or knowhow. Seriously Americans treat their dogs better than u treat muslim women. I could go on but I must go. Be well. Hopefully you can learn to make things better for your people. In shahla!
9:32 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
everybody on this forum has noticed you as a biggot and a muslim hater, it shows all over your postings, and more than one person called you on it, so your comments about hate are describing yourself.
What you cannot stand is having someone stand up to you and tell you how ignorant you sound, well nothing but ignorance shows in your writings, and i am not the only one telling you this.
You are so ignorant, that it is clear you have never left your city let alone the US, you know nothing about the outside world, but you certainly can run your mouth.
I do not need to begg for respect because i know that people who respect themeselves will respect others, your posts show clearly that you are not one of those who respect themeselves, that is why you are here being a biggot and a hypocrit insulting muslims to satisfy your addiction to hate.
9:32 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Well i am not one of those muslims who shy away when a biggot shows up trying to bully people with ignorant statements, if you start up a debate being disrespectful you should be met with what you deserve, period.
When it comes to education and know how, it shows clearly that you haven't accomplished 1/10 of what i have accomplished, so don't even go in that arena because you honestly sound like a high school drop out who has no clue about anything at all. If this forum was about showing our education and intellectual credentials you would be eating nothing but dust following me, no doubt about it.
Thanks to God, I am well educated with one of the highest degrees of the US education system, i have a good job, and i have a life that you and Fran can only dream of, so if you think that spining the debate in that arena will help you, you are mistaken. This forum is about fairness towards muslim children, and biggots like you want to make it something else against muslims, as long as i have time to participate in it, i will not stand by and let you do that.
9:41 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Don't be surprised, people like Brad only have their hate to strive on, as you can see he is ignorant and know nothing about anything at all.
So he suffers from a combination of hate and ignorance, this is really hard for him to get read of, so i can see why he cannot help it.
Many people do not agree with this current proposal from Leventhal, but they will never allow themeselves to write hateful statements Brad and some other biggots have been writing.
When hate becomes an addiction, it becomes a serious one you cannot get read of easily, these haters need help, trust me on that!
9:43 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@ Frank
My postings bellow the ones i addressed to you are all for Brad, i don't want you to think they are about you.
Saqib Ali
1:47 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Dear Diallo.
You should be aware that Brad (whose full name is Brad Botwin) is head of a group named "Help Save Maryland". This group strongly opposes illegal immigration. Notably it has been designated and extremist/nativist group by the venerable Southern Poverty Law Center: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/sinister-intentions/nativist-extremis
It is not surprising that a nativist/extremist group would oppose Eid holidays in MCPS. But that is what we who seek equal treatment from all are up against. Keep up the good fight!
9:53 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Saqib Ali
I don't know this guy Brad but i could tell he is one of those deranged extremists living in a buble. This country is made of peolpe from all over the world, and religions from all over the world. People like Brad are still thinking they can tell others what to abide by, well only the laws of the land can do that, not their creasy ideas or stands against anything muslims try to better their community's life.
We muslims appreciate all the good hearted people out there who can relate to what we are going trough, i can put themeselves in our shoes, and understand that we are asking for nothing else but fairness. Even if you don't agree with Leventhal's proposal, why should you get out there and start disrepecting muslims and islam?
We must stand uo to these haters, that is the only way that will make them back off, trust me !
5:55 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
While I appreciate all the good work you have done for Maryland, I think it is important to remember that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". That is, in this case, we cannot simply talk of "fairness" for all religious groups while ignoring the impact on school education if this "fairness" is applied to everyone in the community by incorporating hindu, sikh, and any other religious holidays. I know you support this idea of extending this "fairness" to all religions, but before taking any position I think should be thinking through what seem to me perfectly valid concerns of those opposing this idea on this forum. Specifically: 1. While muslim parents and children benefit from the day off on Eid day, what do the rest of the students do on their day off? Is it fair to expect the parents in non-muslim families to take the day off in order to have their children spend the day "home alone", or to make arrangements for someone else to take care of them? 2. Have you considered how many "religious days off" there would be in any school year if this "fairness" is applied to all religions? I have not done that either, but it seems to me that in an increasingly competitive world we cannot ignore the fact that schools are there to educate children.
I think at least one reasonable solution has been offered here (i.e.. a couple of floating holidays that students from all religions can take) that could serve as the next step to move the discussion forward.
7:07 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Saqib Ali,
What is wrong with opposing illegal immigration?
8:43 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
M. Diallo,
First, I am serious.
Second, your "response" above to my question regarding Israel is totally unresponsive.
Third, "Do those of you who advocate for the closure of Montgomery County Schools for Muslim holidays, support the right of Israel to exist in peace as a sovereign nation state, and homeland for the Jews?"
12:04 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
The question is not irrelevant, and deserves an appropriate response.
3:43 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
The question remains relevant, and deserves an appropriate answer.
Additionally, the question was addressed to M. Diallo, and others who support the suggested policy change.
Let us hear from M. Diallo, and others and hope they answer the question
4:26 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I did not respond to your question because i don't have time for nonsense.
If you want to keep on asking it, you go for it, as far as i am concerned responding to your irrelvant question is more than a waste of my time.
I have better things to do.
B Allen
9:23 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
@Ali, so now the real you comes out... with the name calling and the bashing of a group that is looking out for ALL taxpayers in MD. The operative word there is "illegal". What don't you get? $4Billion a year in taxpayers dollars in MD goes to illegals, that would certainly cover some of the costs of giving a couple days off to the kids for muslim holidays and take care of the people living in poverty and are homeless in MD that are REAL citizens, instead of having to panhandle on the street corner. Leventhal (and others like him) supports illegal immigration...you know which is a crime and if you went to Mexico or even some other country illegally, you would be put in jail and not be given free housing, meals, education, medical and dental...and taking away services from the taxpayers
11:08 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Is it true that Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul-Fitr are celebrated on different days by differing denominations?
Do Sunni's and Shiites celebrate these holidays on the same days?
Who determines what the appropriate days are?
If the holidays are celebrated on differing days according to denomination, would that mean Montgomery County Public Schools might have to close on four days as opposed to two?
Saqib Ali
10:32 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Ahmed, you asked
"While muslim parents and children benefit from the day off on Eid day, what do the rest of the students do on their day off? Is it fair to expect the parents in non-muslim families to take the day off in order to have their children spend the day "home alone", or to make arrangements for someone else to take care of them?"
The rest of the students and their parents can do the same thing that non-Christians do on Christmas (when school is closed) or non-Jews do on Yom Kippur (when school is closed) or all students do on In service days (when school is closed to students). Isn't this obvious? If it is fair to ask parents to make arrangements for other faiths holidays then it must be fair to ask them to make arrangements for Muslim holidays too.
"Have you considered how many "religious days off" there would be in any school year if this "fairness" is applied to all religions? It seems to me that in an increasingly competitive world we cannot ignore the fact that schools are there to educate children"
This is a fallacy being pushed by opponents of equal treatment. Obviously the reality is that there would certainly not be less school days in the year. MCPS can simply shift one day from summer break and one day from winter break onto the 2 Muslim holidays without reducing the overall number of days of academic instruction.
9:00 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
@ Saqib Ali,
I think you addressed well the questions, i totally agree with your solutions.
If you think about it, all the faiths mentionned by Ahmed can be accomodated with the one or two days they need for religious holidyas, and those days can be deducted out of summer break, and it will still remain plenty of time for children to enjoy their summer vacation.
So if there is good will in finding a solution, there should be no problem at all.
11:18 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Thanks for your response. I will have to take issue with it though. First, it is not just two additional days off for eid if you include hindu, sikh and other religious holidays. So it is a valid and practical issue, and it is not correct to brush it off as a "a fallacy being pushed by opponents of equal treatment". Second, the christmas holiday is close enough to winter holidays (not to mention that it is a tradition going back to the 19th century in the US) so that does not present a practical problem. Yom Kippur is a different case, and I assume under the proposal for a "floating religious holidays", jewish families would simply use the "floating religious holidays" just as muslim families would use the same for Eid and hindu families would use the same for Holi and no doubt many parents (regardless of religious background)would simply chose not to utilize these holidays.
10:31 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Forget diversity and let's stay with separation of church and state. Look at the failure and dropout rates of the school system. These children need to be in school not out celebrating holidays. If parents want their children to succeed, they would be against holidays and truly seek as many days of education for their children as possible.
Saqib Ali
10:56 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
M. Diallo and others who support this effort, please connect with me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/saqib.ali1
2:49 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Saqib Ali:
"Do those of you who advocate for the closure of Montgomery County Schools for Muslim holidays, support the right of Israel to exist in peace as a sovereign nation state, and homeland for the Jews?"
How about you, Mr. Ali, do you support the right of Israel to exist in peace as a sovereign nation state and homeland for the Jews?
3:14 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Just to be clear then since you have not responded to what I wrote above and excused yourself from further debate by calling for those agreeing with you to come to your facebook page: The effort you want support for is having MCPS declare eid days off (with burden of adjustment being on other students), and not the compromise solution that someone suggested and which I brought to your attention of 2 floating religious holidays which would not only permit muslim students to take two days off for eid, but also allow jewish, christian, hindu, sikh students to attend yom kippur, holi and so forth without shutting down school for everyone else in the process.
If you wish to clarify this, that might be useful. If not, I will assume (as it seems) that you are referring to the first solution.
I should note btw that even this compromise solution is not fair (to use the term you have been using) to those parents (who also spoke up here) who wish to treat religion as a personal matter and not have schools adjust to accommodate religious preferences. Nor do I think is this entire issue attacking any practical problem (and I say this from 30 years of experience as a parent raising children in this community where teachers were always understanding and we never had any problem with children taking the day off for eid!).
Personally, I would be surprised if MCPS agrees to what in my view is an impractical, short-sighted and self-centered solution. But what do I know.
Saqib Ali
3:45 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Ahmed, I strongly disagree with you that we should remove Jewish and Christian holidays from the MCPS calendar. Obviously, such a proposal is *far more* self-centered than anything George Leventhal or I am proposing.
It is certainly interesting that anyone would consider a request for equal treatment "self-centered". Perhaps the suffragettes who fought long and hard for the right of women to vote were also "self centered"? We simply have a very different understanding of civil rights. I favor equality in all cases. Your view is different.
3:56 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Saqib: How is calling for 2 floating religious holidays rejecting a "request for equal treatment"?
5:01 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I respect your 30 years of experience dealing with the current situation the way you think was perfect for you.
But i do believe we should try a better way in which no children is treated unfairly when it comes to religious holidays.
To your following points:
1. "The effort you want support for is having MCPS declare eid days off (with burden of adjustment being on other students)"
I say we need to remember that holidays that are being ovserved currently are not seen as burden to muslim children, muslim holidays should not be seen as burden to other children.
2. "I should note btw that even this compromise solution is not fair (to use the term you have been using) to those parents (who also spoke up here) who wish to treat religion as a personal matter and not have schools adjust to accommodate religious preferences"
Let's remember that MCPS is already adjusting to accomodate religious holidays,
So asking that the two muslim holidays be added to the lot is (in my opinion) not out of ordinary.
5:05 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I am for anything that's fair to all the children, by that i mean the same treatment for all MCPS students.
3:15 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
2:57 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Jn, asking your silly question for a fifth time in 50 hours doesn't make it any more relevant to the topic of holidays in the Montgomery County Public Schools.
The question is not addressed to you.
3:36 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
It seems that no one has the courage to properly answer the question regarding Israel.
For the record, I support the right of Israel to live in peace as a sovereign nation state and as a homeland for the Jews.
3:44 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Mr. Rentz: you dont need "courage" to answer your arrogant and insulting question. merely the patience to suffer a fool. rest assured if muslims were the monsters you and your kind try to make them out to be, Pakistan (which has had nuclear weapons for 14 years now) or the democratically elected Islamist government in Turkey would have acted accordingly by now. So just be glad muslims dont fit the stereotype you are trying to fit them into.
Saqib Ali
3:39 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Jrnrentz1, I demand to know your position on the Greek Currency crisis.
3:48 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
What is arrogant and insulting about my question?
Mosters? I never said anything about muslims being monsters.
Simply answer the question.
Saqib Ali
3:51 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Jnrentz, Do you prefer Coke or Pepsi? This is a really really important question. Nobody else has the guts to ask it. But I will. Admire by bravery!
4:08 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Rentz: you unintentionally have already made clear what is arrogant and insulting about your question when you wrote "no one has the courage to properly answer the question regarding Israel." And the question you now ask about what is arrogant and insulting in your original question is already answered in the same post I have above - i.e. re-read what I said above about this being a lack of patience, not courage as you presume to think.
4:16 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
arentz: as for who said anything about muslims being monsters, i agree you didnt say that in so many words although that is an implication one can easily draw from your question. anyway, i dont like to accuse people of things they didnt say, and will take that part back. my response on your other question ("what is arrogant and insulting about my question?") stays. Shalom.
4:25 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I am puzzled by your characterization of my question as being "arrogant and insulting."
What is arrogant and insulting about the question?
I am aware of the many, related meanings of Shalom, but will assume that you mean Peace.
Peace to you, Ahmed.
3:49 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
jrentz: you asked if I really meant "Peace" when I wrote "Shalom". I dont know of any other meaning of the word Shalom, and I was simply wishing to well in what I understand to be the jewish tradition.
Cheers!! and I mean that in a good sense :-)
Saqib Ali
3:55 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Jnrentz, Someone told me that you prefer iPhones to Android?
Is this true? If so, it is truly shocking.
For the record I believe Android phones to be the finest piece of machinery ever crafted by human hands and will remain unrivaled until the end of eternity!!
Saqib Ali
4:11 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Dear, Jnrentz (the blogger who is so courageous he won't even use his full name)
Paper or Plastic?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Saqib Ali
4:56 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Belt or Suspenders?
I demand an ANSWER! <fist pounding on table>
1:13 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Esther, I believe you have a very basic misunderstand of the difference between religion and race/ethnicity/culture. African American and Hispanic people don't have holidays.... It's common for those minorities to be Christian, which the school system already heavily weighs. I also have not seen any proposal to cut the school year short, like you fear. From Mr. Leventhal's letter, we know that he's asking for school to be closed on these two dates. He's not asking that the number of instructional days, which is set by law, be altered or amended. Presumably, these two holidays would cut short the summer holiday by two days.
Jeff Hawkins
1:58 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Do you think these should be paid or unpaid holidays? Paid holidays and snow days or any other day off with pay for 22k employees comes out of a special fund and it isn't cheap to pay staff.
Should it be a 10 month (school based) holiday or should 12 month staff be included? I believe the (2) Jewish holidays that fall in September are unpaid holidays for school staff. Currently Christmas break and Easter break are unpaid holidays except for the "specific" day.....the rest of the week is unpaid. Ultimately it's the taxpayers that will fund holidays everytime they are implemented.
There is alot more to the equation than just adding 2 days to the schedule. There are Union issues as well........
2:56 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Is summer break considered unpaid? I don't get the real-world impact of the designating (if there is one), but as far as I've seen reported, everything would remain the same re: salaries and number of days of instruction. Is that wrong? Teachers/staff get paid more when there are snow days?
I'd imagine whatever the designation is for the gazillion other religious and non-religious holidays and breaks would remain applicable in this instance. It sounds like that'd be unpaid.
3:37 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Diallo: Thanks for your thoughtful response.
You say: "I say we need to remember that holidays that are being ovserved currently are not seen as burden to muslim children, muslim holidays should not be seen as burden to other children."
In response to this, I will say that I think the suggestion of two floating holidays for all religions would mean that MCPS would no longer have a special holiday for Yom Kippur and instead jewish families would simply use the two floating holidays just as muslims would use eid. The reason this suggestion seemed like a good one to me was that it addresses the "fairness for all religions" issue once and for all regardless of how many religions or traditions are represented in MoCo, and it also permits MCPS to focus on what I am sure everyone would agree should be the most important concern - namely, school education.
Jeff Hawkins
3:53 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Teachers and other 10 month staff have the option to have their paychecks spread out over the summer if they choose. Their pay is based on 10 month service, so summer is "unpaid" unless they seek other employment, which many do.
Snow days pay for MCPS staff comes out of a "different" account, has something to do with the formula for hours actually worked. It's very, very expensive to shut down the school system for a day.
So teacher/staff do not get paid more on snow days, but it costs the school system more and ultimately the taxpayer.
Unpaid holidays can be a burden/stressful situation for MCPS staff that are NOT high up on the salary ladder. The day off is is nice, but when the paycheck arrives....it's not fun. It's something at least to consider and then again.....there are the (3) unions that represent MCPS..........never an easy proposition.
4:53 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Right, teachers can choose between being paid their annual salary over 22 pay periods or 26 pay periods. The distribution doesn't affect their per annum pay, just like Jewish "unpaid" holidays don't negatively or positively affect their pay. I don't get "The day off is is nice, but when the paycheck arrives....it's not fun" - each paycheck is exactly the same distribution every single payperiod (except in years there have been furloughs). Annual salary divided into 22 paychecks or annual salary divided into 26 paychecks. This proposal wouldn't change the salaries one way or another, as far as I know.
Jeff Hawkins
9:20 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Don't know if you are aware of it or not, but there are many other positions in MCPS other than a teacher's position. Teacher's are paid on a set salary basis. There are many 10 month employees who work on a "hourly" basis.
I'm sure you "get" the concept of a 40 hour work week and when you take 8 hours away..........the result...........is less money.
As I said before, there are (3) unions in MCPS being the Teacher's, Professional and Supporting Services. Most folks who work for MCPS are "hourly" employees. Any change in hours worked or not worked creates budget "headaches". Lastly, the "unpaid" jewish holidays and christmas week and easter break "are" factored in to a teachers annual salary.
Now do you understand?
10:10 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
"Most folks who work for MCPS are "hourly" employees."
Very interesting. I had no idea. I tried to look it up - your original statement of "22k employees" (which I found out was the entire system, including all the teachers, administrators, etc. who are sure to be salaried) threw me off. Thanks for explaining it.
Jeff Hawkins
10:27 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Salaried employees make about half of the work force, so my comment of "most folks" is in error. We are talking roughly 8 to 9K salaried people in MCPS.
Mekim Muhammad
10:54 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
I pray MCPS makes this happen. It's long overdue.
Jeff Hawkins
11:39 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
No praying allowed concerning public schools..........it's not long overdue, it's not overdue..........it may not even be due at all.
2:59 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
You are right, it is long everdue, it is overue, and it may very well happen.
Just stay mobilized for what you think is necessary, don't let any opponent discourage you.
3:08 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
@jeff hawkins
Good thing this is not up to one individual.
Good thing plenty of open minded individual understand why this needs to happen.
There were be some people opposed to any kind of project, but opposition should be justified by factual arguments, otherwise it become biggotery.
The facts in this case are that shool dyas will not be affetced in any way, people on hourly pay will not loose any day of salary.
Beside the fact that you do not agree with an accomodation for muslim children, what else factual argument can you bring up against this proposal?
We get it Jeff, we have dealt with such criticism in many occasion, once it is labeled "muslim" we expect there will be oppositions.
With the help of non muslims who get it, we will deal with oppositions as we have in the past.
Saqib Ali
1:15 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Jeff Hawkins, its certainly possible that I'm missing some obvious fact here, but can you please explain this to me?
If the total number of instructional days in the year remains exactly the same, how would the total yearly pay of any staff member change (regardless of weather they are hourly or salaried)? In my understanding, their salary would by definition remain completely unaffected. No?
Jeff Hawkins
1:40 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Surely you realize the pay of an hourly worker would be impacted immediately by the loss of hours worked. This is already an issue for many employees within MCPS with unpaid holidays at christmas, easter, jewish and teacher days.
Let's put it this way.......a worker is on a 80 or less bi-week pay schedule, throw in a "unpaid" holiday within that 80 hour time period.......it now becomes 72 or less for that person at that time and as we all know (bills don't take a holiday).
Do they get the pleasure of working an additional day at the end of the year to make it up? Who knows.....that normally has to be worked out within the (3) unions. There are many issues within each union that have to be dealt with in order for something like this to pass. Contact them for further clarification.
Saqib Ali
1:53 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
No Jeff, that's not correct.
Any days-off given for Muslim holidays would be balanced by one less day of summer (or winter) vacation. The total number of school days should remain exactly the same. That's what we keep emphasizing here.
I believe the state law mandates 180 days of school every year. So that would obviously remain the same.
Jeff Hawkins
2:18 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Yes Saqib, it is correct.
I know what you are emphasizing and I know what you are ignoring. Did I mention the number of school days of instruction? No....I do not believe I did.
The conversation I was having was concerning the unpaid holidays for staff at MCPS. I explained how it works.
Do you agree that a worker scheduled for a 40 hour work week that now has to take an "unpaid" day off for that week will now be paid for 32 hours and not 40 hours for that week?
I assume that you are gainfully employed? Take tommorrow off "without pay", will that effect you next paycheck?
Let's stop playing political, Idealogical football with our children, quit using them (everybody concerned on all topics) for political and personal gain.
3:14 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
@jeff Hawkins
As Saqib pointed out to you, the worker who has 40 hours week is not loosing any day, the two days allocated to muslim holidays are deducted from summer/winter vactions, they are not lost.
8:31 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
No doubt Jeff is not correct, but it is amazing to see how all the sudden the pay of hourly employees become an issue. The same employees are dealing with other holidays (religious and none religious), as well as snow days that close the schools, all that is okay.
But when it comes to muslim religious holidays, then we are told it will affect these hourly employees, what a caring thought !
Jeff Hawkins
3:40 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
"The facts in this case are that shool dyas will not be affetced in any way, people on hourly pay will not loose any day of salary."
Other than the obvious mistakes, your facts are not facts. You might enjoy twisting them to your delight, but they remain.
I explained it many times and I will now offer you the same question. I assume that you work a 40 hour week, now...... take tomorrow off "without pay", I assume that you realize that you will now be paid for 32 hours this week.
It's really not that hard of a concept to learn. As for your bigotry rant........look no further than your own mirror. I will not lower myself to that level, if you want to crawl around down there........be my guest.
If you want to reduce the discussion to "slurs", then proceed as you have with others, but let me suggest something to you...........it does NOT help your cause one bit.......in fact it detracts.
8:19 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
What your are saying does not add up, but you can keep on saying it, that is your right.
As to reducing the discussion to slurs, there is no need for me to do so.
But i did say that opposing something without factual arguments, just because you want to oppose it for reason you don't even have the courage to admit, that is nothing but beggotery.
Wether this detracts or not, no worries at all !
keep going with it.
Jeff Hawkins
3:45 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
"As Saqib pointed out to you, the worker who has 40 hours week is not loosing any day, the two days allocated to muslim holidays are deducted from summer/winter vactions, they are not lost."
Saqib was mistaken and I pointed that out already. Salaried employees are handled differently than hourly employees. If you don't want to accept an honest answer, than just say so or rather maybe you already have answered that question. Have a good day....
Linda Stein
12:07 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
This has been a needed change and I hope it comes to pass.
Jeff Hawkins
7:53 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
1. "What your are saying does not add up,"
Let's try this again:
40 takeaway 8 = 32
80 takeaway 8 = 72 (for those on a bi-weekly pay schedule)
2. "but it is amazing to see how all the sudden the pay of hourly employees become an issue."
It is an issue for those employees impacted and has been an issue for those impacted for some time.
3. "as well as snow days that close the schools"
Snow days are "paid"....it comes out of "emergency leave"
Lastly I have family members who are MCPS teachers, I have family members who are 10 month MCPS employees, I have family members who are 12 month MCPS employees. I believe I have a little insight to how MCPS operates.
9:25 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@jeff Hawkins
The desagreement is not about the basic math you keep typing.
What we have been telling you all this time is that these two days will be replaced as they will be deducted from vacations i mentionned earlier, so they are not lost or taken away.
9:09 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Mr. Hawkins,
Good fortune to you, though I think you will continue to have trouble reaching consensus.
Jeff Hawkins
9:19 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Thank you jnrentz1, yes some only see what they want to see. Good fortune to you as well.......
9:34 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Mr. Hawkins,
Additionally, because of the negative response I recently received in these Patch comment pages, I have gone from being favorable towards the goal of the two Muslim holiday days in Montgomery County Public Schools, to being opposed.
12:55 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
You have been asking questions about Israel's rights to exist, what does that have to do with this subject?
As far as being opposed to the holidays proposal, fact is some will be for and some will be against.
So feel free................
Jeff Hawkins
9:50 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
"The desagreement is not about the basic math you keep typing.
What we have been telling you all this time is that these two days will be replaced as they will be deducted from vacations i mentionned earlier, so they are not lost or taken away."
One last time......the loss of pay of 1 or 2 days will impact the paychecks at that specific time in history for those employees. For salaried employees the impact is not felt, for hourly employees it is. There is no guarentee that 1 or 2 days will added at the end of the year for non-salaried employees (that will have to be bargained for by the Unions). Instructional days "tacked on" at the end of the are pretty much useless....teachers and students are "ready to go". Good luck trying to get the (3) Unions to give up a day or two from the Christmas break (it ain't gonna happen). I'm for separation of Church & State so this kind of "crap" does not take place in the first place. Quit using children as idealogical/political/religious pawns to further someones agenda. If you have a beef with National/Federal holidays.....contact your local Congressman or Senator. I think I'm done explaining things to you.............good luck!
1:00 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Jeff Hawkins
You know we have read many arguments from those who oppose this current proposal, but what these opponents failed to tell so far is, why the reasons behind their opposition does not apply to the other religious holidays?
Jeff Hawkins
10:28 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion or belief. Many out there can't seem to handle a difference of opinion, so they will use personal attacks, name calling, divert attention,anything other than address the issue. It's an age old tactic and easier than trying to formulate a civil thoughtful response. It's hard to do, but it's better to stay above actions like that......don't stoop to their level.....often when you examine the history of their "posts" you will find they never really add anything to the conversation........regardless of the subject.
10:38 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Mr. Hawkins,
As usual you have made an excellent observation.
1:22 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
As to adding to the debate, i haven't seen any of the opponents adding anything to these debates except false assumptions that turn aout to be confirmed as false.
You may not like what we are saying, but it doesn't mean we are not adding anything to this dabate.
Once you drop the "double standard" and say something different from this proposal that's at least fair to all the children regardless of religious backround, then we may reach an agreement. But you are opposing the proposal for reasons that shouldn't allow any other religious holidays, and you want us to agree with you on what ground? don't tell me fairness or equality !
B Allen
12:18 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
OMG!!!!!!!! I cannot believe that the leftists are still trying to cover up the fact that leventhal is like the democrat mascot (jackass) for even starting a controversy like this. What needs to be done is to vote out guys like leventhal, then you will not have ANY problems whatsoever. The conservatives don't stir the pot like the dems do...nor do they lie and cheat as much as the dems, just look at DC council, another one bites the dust...soon it will catch up to the mayor. Also, look at Wisconsin, people ar etired of being taken advantage of by the left...with the high taxes, big government spending, taking services away, raising fees, forcing labor unions down the throats of private industry (just like MD forcing daycare owners to be in a union), etc etc etc. If you like to live in a third world country, move to California...look how they are going down the tubes. They lucked out with Facebook going public, that is the only way they could get some money to stay afloat. Diallo and Ali, there are more important things going on than your one "special interest" issue here.
1:21 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Still pulling your speeches that have nothing to do with this proposal?
You have issues with Leventhal, you should deal with those with him, don't mix up everything.
B Allen
12:20 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
It is not about the issue brought up, it is the principle...the left pitting groups against groups, races against races and sexes against sexes. That is what the community organizers are trying to do and if you cannot see it, you are a fool.
1:17 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Once you drop the double standards, we may then reach an agreement.
The opponents failed to show so far, why the reasons behind their opposition does not apply to the other religious holidays?
First they tried the scare tactic of "less school days", didn't stick with the facts.
Then they went to "Separation of church and school", which is not currently the case anyway, so this proposal is not out of ordinary.
Then they seem to care all the sudden about the impact on hourly employees, like it will be the muslim holidays that will be creating the issue, if any!
What other argument is comming next ?
It is probably better that you stop the "gymnastics" with words and facts that seem to only matter now, be courageous and get to the point!
If you can point to a single reason behind your opposition and then tell me why it does not apply to the other religious holidays that are currently observed, please go ahead, you have the floor.
Jeff Hawkins
1:35 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
1. "Once you drop the double standards"
a. I didn't pick up any double standards
2. "we may then reach an agreement."
a. It does not matter to me if we reach an agreement or not, one was not sought.
3. "Then they went to "Separation of church and school", which is not currently the case anyway"
a. Not sure what you mean by this?
4. "Then they seem to care all the sudden about the impact on hourly employees, like it will be the muslim holidays that will be creating the issue, if any!"
a. Ummmm....if these 2 holidays are passed it WILL be an issue for those employees. Thank you for making my point!
1:59 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Jeff Hawkins
In case you missread my posting, i will repeat it for you with more emphasis.
Let the opponents bring a reason behind their opposition and tell us why it does apply to muslim holidays, but not to the other religious holidays.
If you cannot do this and you keep opposing this proposal, then there is a double standard.
I am not sseking an agreement with you either, i know there won't be any with you.
That is why i made it clear in my first response to ypou that there are a bunches of non muslims out there who get it, with the help of those we will be fine.
Fact is that you cannot expect everyone to be just, unbiased, free from double standard, etc...
B Allen
3:24 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Diallo, you leftists have the corner on the market of double standars...you want your cake and eat it too. As I stated before, which you keep thinking I have an issue with leventhal, himself. Other than then fact that leventhal has no clue as to what he is doing as councilmember, he does know what he is doing as far as creating controversy. That is what this is all about. It is NOT the 2 days off (but what happens when the muslim holidays just happen to fall in the summer?), it is the fact that leventhal is trying to ram more crap down the throats of the people in MoCo. He gets away with another one of his "stunts" he will try something else. Maybe he REALLY thinks you people are stupid and will fall for his lies and deceit. Then you will have the rest of those people trying other stunts to try and outdo the other and pander to other groups. BTW FRANK is an idiot also.
B Allen
8:35 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
@Frank... another comical statement. I sat around for 30 yrs as a member of the dem party listening to these characters with their ridiculous "ideas" at meetings and that is why I tore up my "card". I KNOW how the process goes, evidently you do not, but you carry their water like they want you to. These guys think that it goes their way and their way only. It is because of people like you who need them to tell you what to do and how to run your life, you keep voting these idiots in. You need to get a clue how the process works. They work for us, we don't work for them. If you need to live in a nanny state, go elsewhere. Last comment from me to you because people like you cannot understand what he is doing...pandering for votes.
3:50 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
I understand your frustration, but it has nothing to do with this subject.
Let's suppose that Leventhal is only after our votes, i ask whta's the problem with that?
Don't all politicians do the same thing?
If he is only after our votes (according to you and a few other people), and the proposal he comes with is fair and not out of ordinary, we will then give him our votes.
This scenarion happens all over the US, it is not starting with Leventhal if that's what he is doing.
So take some rest B.Allen, you must be really tired by now :-) LOL
B Allen
7:47 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012
@Diallo and Frankie...both of you sound like you are the typical kool aid drinking left wing nutcases. For crying out loud, the holidays in question do NOT fall on a particular day and would have to be "floating" from year to year. You don't even have the same day for the Islamic new yr from yr to year. You people think you have the "solution" but you know what, all you people do is add to the problems. Frank says the politics reflects the population, well there ARE a lot of fools living in MoCo, if=diots that vote for guys like leventhal, in the dumbocrap party. I have seen and heard it from you spoiled little brats for too long, that is why I left the party when I did. I did not want to be "guilty through ASSociation". You people let your ego get in the way of a coherent thought process. "Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity"...I must admit you people have such inflated egos. Your biased comments contain no facts whatsoever just hear-say . Next you will be asking for the month of Ramadan off, that is the way you libs are. Just like spoiled little brats, give you an inch and you want a mile. There, I said it and I mean it.
1:17 pm on Sunday, June 10, 2012
I definitly enjoyed your comments, but you are just not addressing the subject, and you are seriously starting to sound like a broken record.
"Just like spoiled little brats, give you an inch and you want a mile"
Well, this proposal is not asking for "a mile", just what's already happening for other religious holidays.
And i know you meant everything you said so far, but most of them don't make sense and are not even related to the subject.
Take a rest my friend, you need it :-) LOL
B Allen
9:58 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Diallo (and @Frank) I am glad you enjoyed my comments but again, you are NOT listening. OK, I have asked this before. My question a few times was, why have (floating) days off every year to accomodate the muslim religion? http://www.when-is.com/eid-al-fitr-2014.asp This website gives the days listed by year as to when the muslim holidays fall. What happens if MCPS add the 2 days but tells you that you have those 2 days to celebrate, when they do not coincide with the muslim calendar? Do you get those 2 days and when the actual day the holiday is celebrated, which can result in 4 actual days, depending on when the holiday is? Also, while we are at it, maybe we need to add Chinese New Year, Muslim New Year, Israeli New Year and so on, to the days off? Then that would be a great excuse to have the kids in school all year. One thing good about that is a lot of people would save on childcare, but the daycare places won't like it, because it will take away from their business. My comments are more to show how comical you people are on the left. You discuss isses that have NO meaning. AND @FRANK, The principle feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. Your one sided thought process ceases to amaze me. I look at issues from both sides, you on the other hand look at everything with blinders (or the dumbocrap way). You people only see things that you believe. I am glad I am not a NARROW MINDED fool, like you.,
Jeff Hawkins
1:22 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
"You know we have read many arguments from those who oppose this current proposal, but what these opponents failed to tell so far is, why the reasons behind their opposition does not apply to the other religious holidays?"
1. I can't speak to how others feel on the subject.
2. I can only speak for myself.
3. Perhaps they were not asked?
4. Perhaps they were against those other religious holidays?
5. Perhaps they were not against those other religious holidays?
5. Lastly.........ask them!
2:01 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Jeff Hawkins
This post you are responding to was not addressed to you alone in case you misread it, it is addressed to the opponents, have you noticed the plural at all?
So don't bother telling me to "ask them" , as i am not asking you for their opinion.
2:32 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Mr. Hawkins,
Does the Establishment Clause of our Constitution impact on this?
Jeff Hawkins
2:46 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
"In case you missread my posting, i will repeat it for you with more emphasis.
Let the opponents bring a reason behind their opposition and tell us why it does apply to muslim holidays, but not to the other religious holidays."
I believe I answered that, it's up to them.....
"If you cannot do this and you keep opposing this proposal, then there is a double standard."
All religious holidays should be done away with, so yes....I continue to oppose this proposal.....no double standard here!
I'll say it again.....our schools and children should not become an idealogical battleground between religious zealots or their respective agendas or political fodder for election strategy. All religious holidays should be abolished, if a child needs take off for religious reasons.....then they get an excused absence. This goes for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, Shinto's, Buddhist's.........whomever!
5:13 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@jeff hawkins
Well this sounds fair, but it is not the case right now, that is why it is called "double standard".
I wonder why it took this long for you to make this position of yours clear, you came out strongly against the muslim holidays in your previous posts, like there was no other religious holidays taking place in MCPS,......., i get it !
Anyway, I am all for one standard for all students, if this cannot happen then there is double or even multiple standards.
4:13 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
The article, concerns whether or not Montgomery County Public Schools should close for the two Muslim days, Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul-Fitr. No the school system should not close, but any student and any staff member should be allowed an excused absence should they wish to attend to the holidays. Montgomery County Public Schools has already addressed this issue by declaring those days non test days.
5:16 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
The call is for equal treatment in MCPS, what you just explained is not equal treatment when you compare it to what's happening on other religious holidays currently observed,
Equal treatment for all, as simple as that.
6:21 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
M. Diallo.
The call, may in your mind be for, "equal treatment' which apparently means to you and others, "same treatment" but that is not an appropriate solution.
The appropriate solution or reasonable accommodation, is to allow those who wish to participate in the Muslim holidays to take an authorized day off. The school system has already addressed this issue as stated above, by designating the two days as non test days in anticipation that some Muslims will be absent.
Because a reasonable accommodation has already been reached, there is no need, or valid reason to close the schools. No one who wishes to not participate in the Muslim religious holidays should be forced to miss instruction, a day of work, or have any of their summer vacation shortened.
10:17 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
It is really sad to see so many angry posts on the topic. Yes, diversity requires hard decisions and the raison d'etre of the political process is to make civilized choice possible where multiple view points exist. There are two issues here: 1) fairness and equality, and 2) practicality. Fairness demands all religions to be treated equally and practicality requires that the number of school holidays should be limited. Democracy is a game of numbers and this argument does seem implicit in many of the comments posted here. The difficulty in applying this argument is that 1)reliable data are not available on the religious composition of the MCPS system--both teachers and students, and 2) there is no explicit rule regarding what a "sizeable" minority is. It is only in reference to the latter that the example of the Jewish community becomes relevant. Perhaps the only way to proceed logically and consistently forward is to collect religious affiliation data on MCPS students and teachers and to use the democratic process to arrive at a definition of a "sizeable" minority as a benchmark. And yes, I am a product of the MCPS system--and I learnt my lesson of fairness, equality and democracy in that system.
8:05 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
Fine - give every single religion it's own 2 days "floating holiday".
Make the teachers/students/families put in time off for it at the beginning of the school year - no exceptions. Lets see how well having to do that will go over.
BUT....I want my Christian Holidays given back and not part of "winter break" or "spring break".
Move "winter break" to the week of Thanksgiving so I, as a Christian, can celebrate Christmas as it should be. Move "spring break" to be AFTER Easter so again, I can celebrate it as it should be.....not lumped into politically correct breaks.
But I pose this question..... what is going to be given to multi-religion families? Are they now going to have to choose which Holidays to celebrate. Split them?? What happens if they can't because there are actually more than 2 Holidays within the family.
Jeff Hawkins
8:21 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
1. "Well this sounds fair, but it is not the case right now, that is why it is called "double standard". "
A. Thank you, then let's NOT add to the problem and lastly......it's NOT a double standard.
2. "I wonder why it took this long for you to make this position of yours clear, you came out strongly against the muslim holidays in your previous posts, like there was no other religious holidays taking place in MCPS,......., i get it !"
b. The conversation I was having with another person was concerning the impact "unpaid" holidays would have MCPS employees, you jumped in and yelled "bigot". Please show where I said I was "strongly" against "Muslim" holidays. I did not or do I feel the need to write a dissertation on the subject. Lastly you don't "get it" and most likely never will.
3. "Anyway, I am all for one standard for all students, if this cannot happen then there is double or even multiple standards."
c. If that sentiment is true, then you must realize that religious holidays have no place in the public school system. Then and only then can there then be "one" standard. So if you truly want one standard.........fight to abolish religious holidays in the school system and then one small benefit would be MCPS employees won't have to have unpaid days off............"Now do you get it"???????
9:03 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
@jeff Hawkins
This looks like a dissertation to me :-) LOL
I did not jump in and yell "bigot" as you want to make it appear, but i did say if you oppose something without any factual argumentation, that is being a biggot, if this bothers you well it is a fact.
Everything you stated against this proposal can be said against all religious holidays, but you guys make it sound like there is only a problem with this proposal.
By the way i get it very well, you may sound fair, it doesn't mean you are fair, your arguments about the impact on hourly employees is not proven, we had substitute teachers on this forum support this proposal, you don't know better than those directly implicated, your argument sounds like another false argument among many others brought up here. Wether i will get it or not, let me worry about that, one thing that is for sure, we never heard from people like you until this proposal was put on the table, so don't tell us you care about separation of church and school.
And if you really do care about this separation, that is your opinion, not all americans have to agree with you on that.
As of right now that separation is not there, religious holidays are being obeserved, so the current proposal is not out of ordinary.
To make our position clear, we are not calling for abolition of any religious holidays in MCPS, we are just pointing out the obvious double standard for those who can get it, because we know that some will never get it.
2:04 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
Umm, this isnt a fact, you're just clueless..
"Ibut i did say if you oppose something without any factual argumentation, that is being a biggot, if this bothers you well it is a fact."
The fact is a Biggot is 1.intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views.
You dont have to have facts....I'm a biggot, but I'm not a AH.......
4:07 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
Well, it looks like i am not as clueless as you are.
"The fact is a Biggot is 1.intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views"
You have copied/pasted a definition without really understanding the meaning.
Now what does the word intolerance in your definition means?
What does refusing to accept a different view means? should you accept a different view even if it is not factual?
Being a bigot goes beyond what you have put up there, try grasping the whole concept before rushing in with your "strong arguments".
Welcome to the debate, let's see what you got that makes sense, and that's free from double standards.
Jeff Hawkins
9:44 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
1. So you did not yell "bigot", but if I opposed it I'm a "bigot" and if that bothers me than it is a fact.........I believe you just called me a "bigot" again!
2. "Everything you stated against this proposal can be said against all religious holidays, but you guys make it sound like there is only a problem with this proposal."
a. That's true, but the subject of the article was adding Muslim holidays.
3. "your arguments about the impact on hourly employees is not proven, we had substitute teachers on this forum support this proposal, you don't know better than those directly implicated, your argument sounds like another false argument among many others brought up here."
a. I did prove the impact, you just do not want to accept it, that's your problem. I mentioned to you that I have MCPS family members, teachers, 10 month staff and 12 month staff. Substitute teachers would not be impacted.
4. "we never heard from people like you until this proposal was put on the table, so don't tell us you care about separation of church and school."
a. Well.........Einstein? Could the reason be this was the first time the article appeared on Patch, otherwise how could you hear from "people like me".
5. And if you really do care about this separation, that is your opinion, not all americans have to agree with you on that.
a. Never said they had to!
10:38 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
@jeff hawkins
Please try at least reading what is written, i will repeat it again with more clarity.
I said that If you (or anyone for that matter) oppose it without any factual arguments, making it sound like this propoasal will be the problem while it is only following on others (not out of ordinary) that are currently implemented, that is being a biggot.
Is that what you are doing or not? :-) funny!
As you stated, the subject of this article is about adding muslim holidays, so if you want to oppose this with arguments that should also apply to other religious holidays but are not, you fail at first to even mention this double standard until it is pointed out to you, then where do you fall my friend?
Are you being honest and fair or are you being a biggot?
By the way, you did not prove any impact on hourly employees, you stated your understanding of what may happen, but no facts.
We will get the facts from MCPS and will go from there.
Jeff Hawkins
11:52 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
Let me see if I have this straight?
You don't believe an "unpaid" holiday is really an "unpaid" holiday?
Let's try another example:
Christmas week break......10 month employees will get Christmas Day with pay, the other 4 days are without pay for that pay period. This year they are lucky, they will get Christmas Eve also because Christmas Day falls on a Tuesday. I take it you will NOT believe this?
Let's try another one:
Easter week break......10 month employees will get or got Good Friday and Easter Monday with pay, the other 4 days are or were without pay. I take it you won't believe that either.
Please contact MCPS for further information. Please show them the scenario that I have shown you right here on this comment and ask them if it is factual........
4:26 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
@jeff hawkins
I am sure MCPS knows what will impact employees better than you and me, don't you agree?
Let's leave it at that.
4:28 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
@jeff hawkins
I will remind you again that these days are not lost, they are replaced, remember that?
Shaz Akram
11:39 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
This is a great idea. The two Muslim holidays of Eid are celebrated with the same vigor of Christmas and Easter. It also promotes understanding and peaceful discourse amongst children of different religions. Go for it...and well done councilman George Leventhal.
1:56 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
This is wrong, and before we change anything, lets find out how many are affected. I'm going to guess that the numbers are really low, like less than 5% of the whole county...If thats the case, its NOT worth changing anything when all religions holidays are excused anyways. We are not here to "recognized" every religion out there....
4:21 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
This is right, and yes every religion out there should be treated equally.
When it comes to recognizing a religion or not, that is up to everyone, so feel free.
Jeff Hawkins
6:42 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
"I will remind you again that these days are not lost, they are replaced, remember that?"
Not once did anyone ever say that those days are lost....not once. That was never the discussion.....
8:26 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
@Jeff Hawkins
You said these days will be taken away, means the same as lost to me.
8:10 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
Mr. Hawkins,
They will not be reasonable, they will not compromise, they will continue to lie, they will continue to demand special treatment. They will never mainstream. They will never subordinate their religious beliefs to the betterment of our secular state.
I am enjoying my evening, drinking an adult beverage, listening to music. I respectfully suggest that you do the same.
This "stuff" is the result of a failed immigration policy. And we will be paying a huge price for a long time.
Jeff Hawkins
8:45 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
You are correct in your evaluation. You are a wise man..........
8:43 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
It was about time you come out man!
It is interesting that all these comments are comming from someone who entered this debate asking if Israel has the right to exist, as Israel has anything to do with MCPS policies. From your very first post you stated your intention without saying it, and you want to suggest that somebody else is being dishonest?
Hoooo Hypocrisy, when you get people.......
I knew it was just a matter of time before you show who you really are, these racist and anti-immigrant comments of yours will not make you more american as they won't make us less american.
At least you are coming to realize you cannot do anything about somethings, you may not like it but you cannot do absolutly anything that is not in accordance with the laws of the land.
So you can either calm down and stay cool, or you can keep on living with hate and racism and islamophobia and anti-immigrant sentiments, but they will take you nowhere.
Theresa Defino
11:41 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012
Do you know how to pull up a person's past comments? This posted is well know for all the things you already cite. Click on the name.
9:14 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012
M. Diallo,
There is nothing racist is anything I have posted, now or in the past.
I am opposed to illegal immigration.
The failed immigration policy comes about as allowing people into the United States who willfully fail to embrace the laws and ideals of America.
You brought up Israel again. And again, I support the right of Israel to exist as a peaceful, independent nation state and as a safe and secure homeland for the Jews.
You are quick to condemn and label. Condemning and labeling are part of the arsenal of the extremist.
For your information you may view all my past comments by clicking on my name.
10:13 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012
For those who are interested look up the court case, Koenick v Felton. This was a 1999 case out of Montgomery County decided in the 4th Circuit.
11:51 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012
First nobody is supporting illegal immigration here, what does this proposal has to do with illigale immigration anyway?
You were the one who brought Israel in this debate, asking us if those who support this proposal support Israel's right to exist, did you forget or are you being dishonest again?
Now you want to pretend that i am the one bringing Israel in this debate?
What does it have to do with this proposal if not for a dishonets move on your part?
I am just reminding you in case you forgot that you were dishonest since your very first post for trying a manouever we understand perfectly, but i will wait until you get to the point and i will let you know what i think about it.
If you think that living is this country while practicing our religion means failing to embrace the laws and ideals of America, then you don't know much about the laws and ideals of America then. Go hit the books of history and find out what America has been about since its creation, people like you want to rewrite history and make it your own, your ideals are not America's ideals my friend, don't confuse things.
Truth is you cannot stand people who advocate for their faiths, and you want to call someone else an extremist? unbelievable.
Even though you are not saying what your real problem is, we know what's troubling you, i will wait until you say it openly and then i will address it accordingly.
Jeff Hawkins
2:34 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
"You said these days will be taken away, means the same as lost to me."
For the pay period.....numbskull.....for the pay period. Every time I mentioned it I put my answer in that context.
Remember this?
Let's try another example:
Christmas week break......10 month employees will get Christmas Day with pay, the other 4 days are without pay for that pay period. This year they are lucky, they will get Christmas Eve also because Christmas Day falls on a Tuesday. I take it you will NOT believe this?
Let's try another one:
Easter week break......10 month employees will get or got Good Friday and Easter Monday with pay, the other 4 days are or were without pay. I take it you won't believe that either.
Remember this?
"One last time......the loss of pay of 1 or 2 days will impact the paychecks at that specific time in history for those employees. For salaried employees the impact is not felt, for hourly employees it is."
Remember this?
Let's try this again:
40 takeaway 8 = 32
80 takeaway 8 = 72 (for those on a bi-weekly pay schedule)
4:05 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
@jeff hawkins
I am thinking you must be a numbskull too, so no need for me to keep repeating myself.
Maryam Khan
10:50 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012
Yes, schools should definitely close for the two Muslim holidays! Imagine if schools were open on Christmas or Hannukah holidays... it would be very sad. The same consideration should be given to Muslim holidays. My son will be starting KG next year, and I'd love for him to be able to enjoy the two holidays at home with his family. Thank you for your efforts!!
Saqib Ali
12:55 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
B. Allen wrote:
"Also, while we are at it, maybe we need to add Chinese New Year, Muslim New Year, Israeli New Year and so on, to the days off?"
Ah, the irony! What Mr. Allen refers to as "Israeli New Year" -- Rosh Hashanah -- is already an MCPS holiday.
B Allen
9:06 am on Thursday, June 14, 2012
You people are SO "stuck on stupid". My comments are meant as a joke, because you people are a joke. You people think you are so "well informed" but the truth is, you are narrow minded and think things should go your way just like spoiled little brats. Everytime you libs make a comment or open your mouth you "REMOVE ALL DOUBT". Look at the knucklehead in the gov mansion in MD and the dumbocraps running MD, no wonder MD is in a mess Moco is not much better because of the dumbocraps running it. (I am sure you people are going to say "well move", which would be a typical comeback by you people) Just look at all the crap going on in DC, crack smoking, hooker loving, tax evading Marion Barry lecturing on ethics. The funniest thing is, you people are so uninformed, you vote people like him back into office, NOW THAT IS WHAT TYPICAL DUMBOCRAPS DO. You people have NO ethics at all, just look at the FAST AND FURIOUS fiasco. You think your way is the only way...HA...and you can only see what you believe. @Frank, I withdraw nothing, I still maintain you are narrowminded. Ali, I know what you are all about. Community organizing is nothing more than being an agitator. Just like that nitwit in the white house and his administration. Go drink your kool aide, take your drugs and go back to your worthless lives and have the dems tell you what to do. The way you people act is the reason why I give NO credence to anything you say.
3:13 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
a 'howler' feature? dude, every article on here is a 'howler' article. or more acurately, a whiner feature.
perhaps you are new to the area, but dc has more whiners than any-freakin-where in america. by that, i'm mean self-important silly peeps whose mommies told them they were more special than anyone else. sadly, they believed it.
welcome to whiney-ville, usa, sweetheart!
B Allen
9:09 am on Thursday, June 14, 2012
that is the lib dems way...that is why they are all a bunch of spoiled little brats now. They got "particiapation" trophies for playing sports or other activities, just so they were not feeling "left out".
3:56 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Montgomery County should not adjust its calendar to provide two school closing days for the two most religious Muslim holidays.
jodi hinegardner
11:08 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
The United States of America was founded, defended, and thrived under the protection of GOD. The people that first started coming here did so to have the freedom of having a personal relationship with JESUS The CHRIST, the Annointed one. Now we, as a nation, are turning our backs on the very HAND that has fed us. What do you think is going to happen as all of you continue to lobby out GOD?
Steve Itman
8:36 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
What do you think is going to happen as all of you continue to lobby out GOD?
We will free ourselves from the ignorances and barbarisms of ancient superstitions and usher in a new golden age. It would be one of the largest leaps forward in human history.
Steve Itman
8:46 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Students and staff should be provided with a set of "personal days" which they can take for their respective religious holidays at their discretion. This way the school system does not have to recognize specific holiday's or can at least minimize the practice.
It is hard to deny Muslims their holidays on the grounds that "we can't do it for everyone" as Muslims are quite numerous in population, in fact their are far more of them than Jews. So it would seem arbitrary to deny them but not Christians or Jews.
We probably can't avoid a blanket holiday for Christmas since everything else is closed, but to the vast majority of Americans, Christmas is a secular "santa clause" day and not a holy day, even among believers.
Denise M.
12:49 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
First of all, let's get this straight. There used to be two holidays that were recognized as christian school holidays (Easter and Christmas). This is no longer the case. These holidays are now labeled sping and winter holiday. This is fine with me. It would also be fine with me if they did away with these holidays altogether from the school calendar. What isn't fine with me is the fact that they basically removed the catholic holiday names from the calendar. The school is not closed because it is Christmas, but rather for winter break. However, on Yom Kipur, the school is closed because it is Yom Kipur. How is this showing diversity toward the Catholic religion? Anti-semite or anti-christian? You decide.
2:27 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Wow, Denise. Way to fail. "First of all, let's get this straight" - you're completely wrong. Students get off TWO days for Christmas and TWO days for Easter.
Maybe educate yourself a bit before whining, next time.