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Mark Shea's Blog: So That No Thought of Mine, No Matter How Stupid, Should Ever Go Unpublished Again!
Wednesday, April 20, 2011
I don't know if you have time to respond to individual questions like this, but I thought I might at least try. I've been trying to find someone who can explain to me why Venerable John Paul II's actions were correct regarding the whole "Assisi thing" that seems to be running rampant on blogs and sites these days. Most of the detailed articles are on the offensive, and most of the defensive articles are of more of a "don't be silly" nature than doing any explaining about WHY it was okay for him to pray with people of other faiths. While I think of him with reverence and I love his Theology of the Body etc, I have to admit that the "traditionalists" have me a little confused about the interfaith thing and how it meshes with not compromising on the first commandment. For example, somewhere it said that Pope John Paul II participated in a ritual that had to do with scattering water in honor of one's ancestors, and another place it had him kissing the Koran. Being that my dad (a fallen-away Catholic) espouses the "there are many roads up the mountain to God, not just Christianity" philosophy and it took me a long time to get rid of that error myself, I feel sort of like the Pope was encouraging my dad's error. Can you explain to me why it was okay?
R. Sungenis: It is encouraging to see this questioner appeal to the traditional understanding of the sensus fidelium. It really bothers him that the pope, whom he loves (as we all should) undertook such a disturbing and novel departure from the sensus fidelium upheld by all his papal predecessors. I'm glad to see he is troubled. It shows that the faithful retain the capacity to see Assisi for what it was.
M. Shea: Re: Assisi. Go here.
R. Sungenis: I'll give Mr. Shea credit for at least trying to answer the question. That's more than I can say for the rest of the "Catholic apologists" who work in Shea's circles.
M. Shea: Bottom line: there was no prayer in common at Assisi.
R. Sungenis: Let's just say, for the sake of argument that Shea's distinction is valid (that is, that Assisi was legitimate because the pagans prayed to their false gods separately from Christians who prayed to the true God). So what does Shea make of the fact that John Paul II traveled many times to foreign countries, met there with pagan religious practioners, and prayed in common with them? For example, in August 1985 John Paul II went to a pagan sanctuary in West Africa. His own words state precisely what happened there: "the prayer meeting in the sanctuary at Lake Togo was particularly striking. There I prayed for the first time with animists." This is prayer in common at its utmost, and it was not an isolated incident.
Moreover, if Shea's reasoning were correct, then what was the point of gathering at Assisi in the first place? John Paul II and his pagan practioners could have prayed separately in their respective countries without, among many other horrendous things, subjecting Catholics to seeing pagans put a statue of Buddah on our sacred altar.
In the end, all the talk about Assisi "not allowing prayer in common" is merely an attempt to divert our attention from the real issue. The real issue with Assisi is that the Catholic Church invited pagans to come to one place to pray to their false gods, thus promoting idol worship and giving the message that the Catholic Church condones and encourages such idol worship. Whether or not the Catholic Church prayed with, by, next to, around, separately, or co-mingling is all beside the point. It is just an attempt to defend this abomination by using semantics. John Paul proved it when he went to Lake Togo.
The second problem with Assisi is that these same pagans were never given the Gospel. They were sent home believing that praying to their pagan gods was perfectly acceptable. Instead of the pagans being encouraged to seek conversion to Christianity, the message resonating in them after Assisi was that their religion was just as good as Catholicism, enough where they, by some strange vicarious exchange between their false gods and the true God, could seek for divine favors just like Catholics.
With the above in view, let's look at Assisi in perspective. The first Assisi was in 1986, two years after John Paul II did a "consecration" in 1984. Many claim that the 1984 consecration fulfilled the Fatima request to consecrate Russia. Let's say for the sake of argument that it did. Then peace should have reigned, since Russia would have been neutralized of its reign of terror around the world by heaven itself. But such wasn't that case. In fact, John Paul II's own biographer, Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, who wrote A Life with Karol, says that there was a political impetus for Assisi, particularly the cold war with Russia and the communist block; and that because of it and further trouble spots (e.g., the Balkans and the Persian Gulf), John Paul II was searching for a way to attain peace in the world. According to Dzisisz, an idea came to him by a sudden inspiration – calling all the world's religions together to pray for peace.
But wait a minute. If John Paul II did a legitimate consecration in 1984 that fulfilled the Fatima vision, then where was the peace promised from such a consecration, and why was John Paul II so worried about not seeing any peace in the world? Keep in mind that his Assisi gathering was just two years after his alleged Fatima consecration, which also means that the planning of Assisi must have occurred earlier than 1986, for large events like Assisi are not put together overnight. So within a year or so after his 1984 consecration, John Paul II is already fretting about not seeing world peace. Did heaven miss its call? So he organizes Assisi to take care of the problem. But why? Why didn't he give ample time for his 1984 consecration to work? Didn't he trust Our Lady and her Son to give what they promised if, indeed, a valid consecration was performed in 1984? After all, hadn't we been waiting for a valid consecration of the Fatima vision since 1929 when it was first issued, while we watched pope after pope fail to fulfill it? If the Fatima consecration were finally fulfilled in 1984 wouldn't we be expecting heaven to just shower us with peace and prosperity after 50 years of hell on earth?
Be that as it may, why did John Paul II call all the pagan nations to pray to their false gods in 1986 when at his 1984 consecration he was told by heaven to call all the bishops of the world together to pray? [not to mention the fact that he never did call the bishops to the 1984 consecration].
I'm sorry, but this whole series of events simply doesn't pass the sniff test. Perhaps the real reason John Paul II wasn't seeing any peace in the world after his 1984 consecration was that he didn't do a valid consecration. He failed just as Pius XII failed in 1942 and 1952, by both failing to mention "Russia" in the consecration and failing to call the bishops to do the consecration with him. No wonder there was no peace forthcoming. Why would we expect heaven to answer such blatant disobedience?
So in desperation, in 1986 John Paul II makes up his own method of appeasing God by bringing pagans to Italy to pray to Him; and thereby he denies heaven's specific directives given at Fatima – consecrate Russia and pray only with the bishops, not pagans. Additionally, in his disobedience John Paul II seems so infatuated with himself and his own ideas that he not only calls pagans to Assisi to break the First Commandment, he gives himself first billing in the Fatima vision by saying that he was the "bishop in white that was killed with arrows" – an interpretation that even the secular press thought was ludicrous.
Of course, departing from God's plan and implementing one's own is nothing new. The Old Testament is filled with such instances. From Abraham's taking of Hagar as his wife, to Moses striking the rock twice instead of once, to Ahaz refusing to take God's help and instead going to the cultic nations around him. The Jews were always making things more difficult than they really were. By their meticulous adherence to legalizm they made it seem as if God wanted them to climb mountains and cross seas in order to attain heaven. But God said no. Neither mountains nor seas need to be conquered; only humble submission to his word is all that is needed (cf. Deut 30:12; Rom 10:6).
What was John Paul II's "mountain" and "sea" he made for himself? The six Assisi and Assisi-like interreligious prayer gatherings from 1986 to 2002; until in 2005 he died never attaining the world peace he sought after. All John Paul II had to do was obey the simple request of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia with all the bishops. But instead he consecrated his humanistic views of man (that he demonstrated at Lake Togo the year after (1985) when he prayed with an animist) by calling all the pagans of the world to pray to their false gods for the peace he missed at Fatima.
I think Mr. Shea knows, in his heart of hearts, that Assisi is wrong, but being a typical modern Catholic apologist who has more or less sworn allegiance to the powers-that-be to continually produce positive messages of John Paul II, he has to seek for some escape along the lines of taking the focus off the real problem – the promotion of idol worship. God forbid that "St." John Paul II would be accused of promoting idol worship. That would crumble the whole Neo-Catholic regime in a matter of seconds. But trying to form an apology for Assisi is like quicksand. The more one tries to escape, the more one is trapped, as we shall see in the following statements by Mr. Shea.
M. Shea: Basically, it was a good faith effort to work with others of good will on what could be done in common for peace.
R. Sungenis: Shea has had nine years since 2002 to think about his apologetic for Assisi, but this is apparently the best answer he could muster. So we must assume from Mr. Shea's reasoning that, as long as a Buddhist, Muslim, animist or Voodoo priest has a "good will" and wants peace on earth, then everything is copacetic. We can safely encourage him to pray to his false god.
And if the pagan prays, who might answer and give him peace? Would it be his false god? But false gods are an illusion, are they not? The only God we know is the Trinity, besides what St. Paul calls "the god of this world," namely, Satan (2Co 4:4). So if the pagan receives peace for his prayer, either Satan answered him or God answered him. If Satan answered him, then we are promoting devil worship. If God answered him, then we are promoting worship of God through the means of worship of false gods. Either way we have broken the First Commandment. The First Commandment, in case we forgot, says that we should not worship idols and that we are to separate ourselves from anyone who does so. Since prayer is a form of worship, Assisi fits the parameters.
Let's suggest a more appropriate scenario. Let's say that John Paul II invited all the pagan religions to Assisi because he wanted to give them a wonderful, life-changing message. His drawing card is to have the attendees work for world peace. So they all come to Assisi for the same goal. But when they arrive the pope says these words to them:
So John Paul II, standing in the middle of Assisi, said: "Men of the world, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found altars with these inscriptions: To Zoroaster; To Buddah; To Hindi; To The Great Thumb. You worship these gods but this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in Buddhist temples made by man, nor is he served by the hands of the Voodoo priest, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything. And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us, for 'In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your prophets have said. Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like the Great Thumb, or a statute of Buddah, or anything from the imagination of man. These times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."
In case you were wondering, that passage, albeit with a little paraphrasing from me, comes from Acts 17:22-31 when St. Paul preached to the pagans at Athens. Now what would be so difficult about giving that kind of message to the pagans gathered at Assisi? We could certainly tell these pagans to seek for peace, but it would be the peace which passes all understanding, the peace we receive when we are no longer enemies of God (cf. Rm 5:1; Ph 4:7). World peace would be much easier if we could instill in them the peace of God first.
Wasn't Acts 17, in fact, put in the Bible so that we would model our approach to the world after it? If John Paul II had done so it would have been the most astounding evangelical event in the history of the world, rivaling Pentecost itself in significance. But John Paul II didn't even come close to modeling himself after Pentecost. He told them to continue praying to their false gods and then sent them all home without breathing a word of the Gospel to them. They are still in their homelands thinking that praying to their false gods is perfectly acceptable and none of them have shown any signs of wanting to convert to Christianity, not one. Why would they? No message of only one God was preached; no warning of judgment if they do not forsake their false gods; no presentation of Jesus Christ as the Savior from their sins. Nothing except "I'm Ok, You're Ok" worldly-thinking dressed in religious garb.
Why? Because the modern prelature hardly preaches the Gospel any longer, that is, if they remember what the Gospel is. The Teilhardian, Rahnerian, Balthasarian gospel of either 'every man is saved' or 'salvation is his to lose' has taken over many in the prelature today. We have prelates who preach a gospel of man-centeredness instead of God-centeredness; who question or doubt that hell or the devil really exist; who exonerate past heretics from Protestantism, Judaism and Islam as if they were merely misunderstood visionaries that were mistakenly maligned by the Church; we have a prelature today who, in the final analysis, believes that conforming to the world is better than converting the world. This is where the monster of Assisi originates. It just didn't pop on the scene overnight. It had been brewing for many years. Like the proverbial frog in the heated pan, we were being desensitized to its juggernaut for decades until the proper charismatic figure felt it was the right time to release it.
M. Shea: It has become a byword among Reactionaries (and not all Traditionalists are reactionaries, by the way) who loathe JPII, for no good reason I can see.
R. Sungenis: This issue is not about whether some likes or dislikes JPII. It is about the Gospel and the First Commandment. Were they transgressed or not? If they were transgressed (and all the evidence leads to that conclusion) then the only stance is to be a "reactionary," and those who do not react have forsaken the Gospel and are no longer Catholic.
M. Shea: The illogic of their attack on it depends, from what I can see, on a sotto voce rejection of Dignitatis Humanae (The Decree on Religious Liberty) and wishing for a world in which the Church outlaws and persecutes all religions but itself.
R. Sungenis: Mr. Shea is wrong on both counts. One can reject Assisi without rejecting Dignitatis Humanae. More importantly, no authentic teaching of the Catholic magisterium has ever called for the "outlawing and persecution of all religions but itself." Mr. Shea's comment is just an outright falsehood.
M. Shea: If that's not it, I can see no other rational basis for it, for I can see no sane basis for saying that adherents from other traditions are free to pray according to their consciences in synagogues, mosques, and temples throughout a Catholic country, but are forbidden to do so in the country called the Vatican. At no point was there prayer in common at Assisi, precisely because we are Catholic and not Jews, Muslims, pantheists or polytheists. Rather, there was simply an appeal to men and women of good will to work together in common.
R. Sungenis: First of all, Assisi is not "in a country called the Vatican" and there are no mosques, synagogues or temples in the "country called the Vatican."
Second, Shea is merely showing us that he doesn't understand either the issues or the theology, and he is badly confusing Dignitatis Humanae (DH). Laying aside the ambiguities of DH with which many argue, one thing we know for sure is that DH cannot be promoting idol worship. On the one hand, if pagan religious adherents in a foreign country pray to false gods, there is little we can do to stop it except, if we have the opportunity, preach the Gospel to them as St. Paul did at Athens, telling them that their pagan worship is wrong and that they will be damned for it if they do not forsake it. If they refuse our Gospel, so be it. They have the "freedom," as DH teaches, to refuse the Gospel because God gave them the same free will he gave to Adam and Eve.
On the other hand, interpreting DH by insisting that man's "freedom" is really a mandate from God to promote pagan worship for the sake of ecumenism is a monstrous distortion that has no precedent or sanction from Tradition, Scripture or the Magisterium. Measured toleration of paganism is one thing, but direct promotion of pagan worship under the guise of "an appeal to men and women of good will to work together in common" is a devilish confusion, and it is sad to see that many Catholics are falling for it. It is the same kind of double-talk that the Devil used on Adam and Eve in the Garden – taking one small truth that God revealed and subtly twisting it until it is made to say the exact opposite.
M. Shea: …so that we might not be incinerated in our beds--which makes proclaiming the gospel much harder when the world's population has been slaughtered in a Holocaust.
R. Sungenis: These are the typical scare tactics used by those of Shea's persuasion. They try to force us to the position that if we don't accept the prayers of these pagans then either the pagans will rise up and slaughter us or we will blow each other up in a nuclear exchange. No thought is given to how the promotion of pagan worship will make God angry at us and cause him to slaughter us in judgment (either by using pagans to slaughter us or start a war of nuclear proportions).
I suggest Mr. Shea read the Old Testament. Israel was confronted with the same option Mr. Shea gives us. They were told by God not to make alliances with the pagan nations, since the pagan nations would eventually paganize Israel. They were also told not to fear the threats of war and destruction from the pagan nations, since God would protect Israel if she remained faithful to him. But Israel didn't listen. They decided that "ecumenical" relations with the pagan nations was better than separation, just as many in the Church do today. After all, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Ammonites, the Moabites, even though they all worship and prayed to false gods, seemed like people of "good will" who wanted peace just like Israel did. What could be wrong with that? Well, you know the rest of the story. Not long after they made these alliances with the pagan nations, God used those very pagans to destroy Israel. The same thing is going to happen to the idolators in the Church, sooner or later. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
M. Shea: Some critics labeled all this as "utopian" and insisted that suffering makes us stronger, so it was futile to oppose war. I wonder if these same critics oppose that damn new Catholic innovation called the hospital. After all, we'll never wipe out disease or death either, so is it also "utopian" to fight these things?
R. Sungenis: This is nothing more than a misplaced analogy. No sane person is against hospitals. But as Jesus said of the poor, the same is true for death and disease – we will never end them totally. But that doesn't mean we allow them to take over our lives or frustrate us beyond all hope. We do what we can in this sin-cursed world. That is common sense. The same thing is true with the Gospel. We do what we can. The important point to understand here is that a peaceable life style does not come from placating pagans. It comes from honoring God who in turn will bless us with peace, both physical peace and spiritual peace. Mr. Shea seems totally oblivious to that element of the discussion, but it is common among those of a more political than spiritual persuasion. The focus has been taken off of God and placed on man.
If Mr. Shea would only realize that if we obey God and honor his First Commandment (and we do so by telling the pagan that his worship of false gods is wrong and condemnable), then God will bless us with peace beyond Mr. Shea's imagination, not to mention the fact that our hospitals would be emptying instead of filling up. But unfortunately, modern man has lost faith in God, and it is the very reason that Jesus says in Luke 18:8: "when the Son of Man returns, will he find faith on earth?" The real problem is sin. Prelates and parishioners have been sinning against God in this past century at an alarming rate. And when God judges them for their sin (e.g., by filling up our hospitals and increasing war and the threat of a nuclear holocaust), the same men who are doing the sinning and causing God's judgment upon us are the same men who pretend they haven't sinned and then start blaming God for all the woes of the world. They then start justifying their departure from God by consorting with the world and making alliances with it to help to overcome their problems, until we reach a point in which Assisi is conceived as the bastard child of the Church having intercourse with the world.
M. Shea: Dunno about the scattering water thing, but since the Church has a long history of accomodating pagan customs (recall the recent brouhaha about Easter Eggs, aka "Spring Spheres") I'm skeptical that those hostile to JPII are going to be entirely reliable on what is and is not an embrace of pagan content as distinct from the honoring of a common custom.
R. Sungenis: Once again, Mr. Shea's analogies are misplaced, and perhaps deliberately so. The world has its idols, to be sure. But there is little we can do to rein in those idols except, when the opportunity presents itself, tell those who are making the idols that it is wrong to do so. We are the moral and spiritual conscience of the world. As Jesus said, we are the salt of the earth. But tolerating the making of Spring Spheres in Seattle is light years apart from inviting the makers of those Spheres to Assisi to help them promote prayer to the Great Sphere god for world peace. This goes back to Mr. Shea's misunderstanding and misapplication of Dignitatis Humanae. DH recognized a certain "freedom," but it did not give a license to promote pagan worship. If a question arises regarding how far a pagan society is allowed to promote its paganism, DH inserted the all-important "within due limits" clause. Obviously, the Church is not going to tolerate a Spring Sphere parade right into the sanctuary of St. Peters Basilica since the "freedom" of paganism has its limits. Toleration of something you cannot control is one thing; promotion of something you can control is quite another. Assisi was the latter.
M. Shea: Likewise, with the Koran thing, it constituted no scandal for the Iraqi Christians who were part of the delegation to Rome that brought the Koran. It was simply a polite act in response to a polite diplomatic gift.
R. Sungenis: Once again, Mr. Shea seeks to minimize the malfeasance by coating it with innocuous verbiage. It wasn't merely a "Koran thing." It was the vicar of Christ kissing the scriptures of a false religion and telling the Muslims that he reads a passage out of the Koran every day – a religion that denies Christ, the Trinity, and the basic tenets of Christianity. To kiss and study an object means much more than tolerating its existence. It means you are giving it the highest honor; that it is a sacred book worthy of veneration and affection from its readers. If the pope had kindly received the Koran and then placed it on a table, it would have been more than appropriate. It would be much like St. Paul recognizing the religiosity of the men of Athens as a lead into his preaching of the Gospel to them. But note well, St. Paul did not kiss the pagan idols at Athens. If he did, he would have been sending the Athenians a completely different message than the one he sent about the Gospel and the looming of Judgment Day against idol worship.
M. Shea: People who are determined to see in JPII yet another enemy of their sect of Purely Pure Puritan Catholicism can and have inflated the incident into Still More Proof that JPII was a Destroyer of the Church. But I think the strongest case you can make is that it was an inadvisable gesture, though ultimately one up to his discretion.
R. Sungenis: Well, at least Mr. Shea admits the "Koran thing" was "an inadvisable gesture." But we'll have to correct him in thinking that it was an act left to John Paul II's discretion. It rests with the discretion of Jesus Christ and the Catholic tradition, since the pope is Christ's and the Church's servant, not vice-versa. Jesus Christ would no more kiss the Koran than he would kiss the scroll that held the Corban law of the Pharisees. To do so would be to accept the contents of the scroll. For the pope to kiss the Koran means he accepted the contents of the Koran. Unfortunately, from what we know of the modernistic tendencies in the theology of Karol Wojtyla, it is not unimaginable that he did accept the contents of the Koran as another means to God.
M. Shea: For a sane take on the Church's relationship with other religious traditions, both Christian and non-Christian, I strongly urge you to read the following:
The Decree on Ecumenism
Dignitatis Humanae
Nostra Aetate
Dominus Iesus
R. Sungenis: This will do no good unless Mr. Shea shows the wording from each of these documents that gives sanction to an event such as Assisi or the kissing of the Koran. My guess is that Mr. Shea did not do a thorough study of these documents. My other guess is, if he were to provide a passage from them that he thought gave sanction to Assisi, it would be filled with the same kind of rationalizations and minimizations that we see in his present essay. If Mr. Shea wants to prove my guesses wrong, I invite him to do so.
M. Shea: Basically, the habit of the Church is to affirm what can be affirmed in common with people of good will, while distinguishing what cannot be affirmed in common and maintaining the proclamation of the gospel in respectful disagreement where other religious traditions contradict the gospel.
R. Sungenis: But that is precisely what was NOT done at Assisi. As Catholics, we cannot affirm or promote prayer to pagan idols, but Assisi both affirmed and promoted it, and did so without any precedent whatsoever from Catholic tradition. As Catholics we are required to preach the Gospel at all times. As St. Paul says in 2 Tim 4:2: "preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching."
And why do we do so? Precisely because of the idolatry and debauchery we see in pagan religions and the rest of the world:
"3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths."
I dare say we are there. We are at the place where many in the Church "will not endure sound teaching" from our Catholic tradition but have itching ears to hear the modern gospel of Teilhard, Rahner, Balthasar, DeLubac mixed with Judaism, Islam, Buddhism & Existentialism, and every other modernist who has become ashamed of the Church Militant and Christ-crucified and seeks a gospel of Church Milquetoast and Christ-conforming. As long as they do so, God's judgment will remain. The way to remove God's judgment is to preach the true Gospel, and Assisi is not the true Gospel. It is a perversion of the highest order; and because of it God's judgments are upon us and will only increase.
M. Shea: Since grace builds on nature, this means, among other things, that where indigenous cultures contain the "seeds of the word" they are to be affirmed and judiciously incorporated into Catholic tradition (which is, again, why you are probably coloring Easter eggs, which used to be pagan fertility symbols and now are images of the Empty Tomb or New Life in Christ). It's why we have Christmas trees, wedding rings, Latin, and lots of other bric-a-brac from pagan culture knocking around in the Church. What always happens is that something pagan gets filled with Christian content. What does not happen (with the Church's permission, I mean) is that Christian forms get filled with pagan content.
R. Sungenis: While it is true that a Christmas tree can be reinterpreted with Christian truths, that is not the case for the Koran or the pagan prayers at Assisi. Mr. Shea needs to know where to draw the line on his analogies and metaphors, otherwise he confuses the issue more than he clarifies. If paganism and its artifacts could be reinterpreted into Christian truth, then St. Paul would have told the Athenians to keep their pagan statues; Moses would have told the Israelites to keep the golden calf; and there would be little reason to have a First Commandment, for we as Christians could simply reinterpret any pagan prayer or act with Christian meaning and all would be well. But that's not the way it works. Toleration is one thing; promotion is quite another. We are not supposed to conform to the world; they are supposed to conform to us. If Mr. Shea is trying to tell us that Assisi is acceptable because we can just reinterpret their pagan prayers with Christian content and everyone should be happy, then he just doesn't understand the Christian Gospel.
Mr. Shea: When *that* happens, it's generally called "heresy" (as, for instance, when a Catholic theologian embraces the pagan notion that nature is The Ultimate and therefore decides that a transcendent God can't *really* raise Jesus from the dead since that would mean God is higher than Nature). I see no indication at all that JPII denied the essentials of the Faith.
R. Sungenis: It's not often that a person overtly denies the essentials of the faith, (provided we are agreed on what those "essentials" are). John Paul II did not come out and say "I deny the existence of God" or "I deny that Christ was God and man," or anything of that material nature. Instead, he couched his language so that the meaning could often go either way. For example, in 1980 and 1981 John Paul II said that "the Old Covenant was never revoked." This was an unprecedented and extremely provocative statement. No one had ever said such a thing in Catholic history. Most of the scholars and clerics who read that statement believed John Paul II was giving a new teaching – that, contrary to all of Catholic tradition, the Jews retained the Old Covenant and that it was a separate covenant from the covenant Christ made with the Church. I know this because there are dozens of books, speeches, papers, and even catechisms, that give that interpretation. In fact, some cardinals, based on what the pope said, began teaching that the Jews are no longer candidates for conversion to Christianity since God has given them their own salvation program. Even Mr. Shea believes, in part, that the Old Covenant still remains in force for the Jews. But all this is heresy, since the Church of tradition, as well as Scripture, has been crystal clear that the Old Covenant has been superseded by the New Covenant in Christ, and that there is only one covenant existing today, the New Covenant.
But who led them there? It was John Paul II. He never once in the remaining years of his pontificate, clarified what he precisely meant by his provocative statements given in 1980 and 1981. He just let these new-fangled interpretations proliferate. Instead, he prayed with Jews in their synagogues and prayed at Jerusalem's Wailing Wall. He spoke of Judaism as a viable and God-glorifying religion to the rabbis he courted. We had absolutely no indication from John Paul II that the interpretations being placed on his 1980-1981 words were wrong, or even taken out of context. There was only one short statement he made in a 1986 speech which said that the Old Covenant included the covenant God made with Abraham, but even then he never clarified which of the two covenants that God made with Abraham he was referring to, or if it included both. (NB: One covenant with Abraham was made exclusively for the Jews; the other was made with all men in reference to the New Covenant in Jesus Christ). Moreover, John Paul II never denied that the Mosaic covenant was included in his term "Old Covenant." This is, perhaps, what led the authors of the 2006 United States Catholic Catechism for Adults to claim on page 131 that the "Old Covenant" that John Paul II had in view was precisely the Mosaic covenant. This is just one small example of the same kinds of problems in many statements from John Paul II (e.g., making ambiguous statements that could be interpreted such that all men will be saved or that humans may not be involved with hell; suggesting that the resurrection and return of Christ are merely symbolic; implying that Original Sin is not a fact; suggesting that non-Christians need not convert to Christianity).
Then again, some of the statements and actions of John Paul II are much more overt. Whether it was kissing the Koran; praying with animists; refusing to allow a statue of Our Lady at Assisi but allowing a Buddah statue; discouraging Catholic proselytism toward other religions; praising Martin Luther as a great theologian but apologizing for past popes of the Inquisition; allowing a cardinal to sign the Lutheran/Catholic Joint Declaration that said "man is justified by faith alone"; giving communion to non-Catholic politicians; harboring bishops involved in the pedophile scandal or ignoring accusations of pedophilia and homosexuality among his clerics; removing the excommunication of Masons from Canon Law; saying the Old Covenant was never revoked; condoning the idea that Scripture contains historical errors; having "holy" cow dung placed on his forehead in honor of the god Shiva; allowing Voodoo witch doctors and snake charmers to pray to their false gods; honoring the Dalai Lama; wearing the religious garb of pagan religions; downplaying traditional Marian doctrines and interpretations of Scripture applying to her; failing to consecrate Russia; seeking to redefine and lessen the primacy of the papacy for the sake of ecumenism; or having scantily clad women perform dances at his masses, etc., the moral and doctrinal aberrations of John Paul II were far graver than most of the other bad popes.
When we consider the fact that, in the sixth century, Pope Honorius was condemned as a heretic by two popes and three councils, and that his name was displayed as a heretic in the Liber Diurnus for the next one thousand years, for merely writing a private letter to bishop Sergius in which he stated that Christ had one will instead of two – an esoteric doctrine that was not easily understood then or now – how is it possible that John Paul II can do all the above in public and not only escape being censored but actually be put on the fast-track to sainthood? By his own admission, John Paul II read the Koran every day, a book denying not only that Jesus had two wills but also denying that he had two natures. And we are going to make him a saint yet condemn Honorius for a private letter? What does this tell us about the condition of the Church today?
M. Shea: On the contrary, he proclaimed the faith to more people than anybody else who ever lived--literally.
R. Sungenis: No, that is simply not true, if by "the faith" we are referring to the traditional Catholic faith passed down from our Fathers, saints, doctors, popes, councils and catechisms. John Paul II certainly talked to more people outside the Church than any other pope in history, but it wasn't to preach the Gospel of the Last Four Things. As I said earlier, we have a perfect example of John Paul II's modus operandi when at his various Assisi meetings he never preached the Gospel of salvation and judgment to the pagans gathered there, and instead, allowed the pagans to foster their own anti-Christian religions. As we said, this action of John Paul II's was the very opposite of what St. Paul did when he met the pagans of Athens, and John Paul II continued this same paradigm in the whole of his 26 years in the papacy, everywhere he went. Whether it was Muslims, Jews or Voodoo priests, John Paul II made it seem like their religions were sufficient not only to pray to God but to provide them salvation. Not once in 26 years of speaking and writing did John Paul II tell these non-Christian adherents that they would be judged and sent to hell if they did not convert to Christianity. In fact, he suggested that hell may not even exist. That was "the faith" of John Paul II.
M. Shea: He was a great gift to the Church, I think, and constituted a great threat to those who prefer to think of the Church as a besieged fortress rather than as a battering ram against the gates of hell.
Posted by Mark P. Shea at 11:35 AM
R. Sungenis: Why the "I think" from Mr. Shea? Either John Paul II was a great gift or he was not. The hesitation in Mr. Shea's remarks shows once again that even an apologist who is trying to be as positive about John Paul II as possible, harbors doubts about his own apologia. Be that as it may, John Paul II was certainly a "great threat" but it wasn't against the forces of evil and unbelief. More immorality and doctrinal confusion was unleashed in the pontificate of John Paul II than any other pope in history. John Paul II may have thought he was "a great gift" to the world. That's one reason, perhaps, why he made himself the "bishop in white" of the Fatima vision when in reality, the more likely candidate was John Paul I who had plans to clean up the filth at the Vatican that John Paul II decided to live in, but whose life was cut short by those who wanted the filth to continue. The reality is, John Paul II was one of the worst popes we've ever had. Immorality is a terrible offense against God, but when that is compounded by a perversion of the Gospel, then the sins cry out to high heaven for judgment, and that judgment is coming very soon.
October 22, 2011 will be the feast day of John Paul II. Not coincidentally, Benedict XVI plans on continuing the Assisi tradition in October as well. I don't believe this timing is a coincidence. Although Benedict XVI is not as ostentatious as John Paul II, at the beatification in May and the Assisi in October, Benedict will be accepting the torch from the grave of John Paul II. I wonder how far he will travel with it until he realizes that it has incinerated much of the Church.
Two recent events show that I am on the right track in making these objections. (1) Benedict's upcoming Assisi meeting in October has been severely modified. There will be no prayers from even non-Catholics, much less pagans, animists and Voodoo witch doctors. That tells us that Benedict knows instinctively that what was done at Assisi 1986 and Assisi 2000 were wrong, otherwise the prayers would be continued. This is the third time the Benedict has contradicted his predecessor. The first was the excommunication of the SSPX; the second was the relevance of the Fatima visions for the future.
(2) When Cardinal Angelo Amato was quizzed as to why John Paul II was being put on the fast-track to beatification, he stated that it is "not because of his impact on history or on the Catholic Church, but because of the way he lived the Christian virtues of faith, hope and love." This is a very telling statement, since it implies that Amato cannot or will not defend the commonly known doctrinal aberrations and moral laxities occurring in John Paul II's pontificate. It is also very telling because, if a separation is made regarding the criteria for canonization between John Paul II's personal life and the governance of his pontificate, it would be the first time in history. Be that as it may, Amato's new distinction is predicated on the fact that John Paul II's personal life can be shown to be a holy one. That, of course, is just begging the question.
Robert Sungenis
April 25, 2011
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Our list of titles on autism and Asperger's Syndrome is now amongst the foremost in the world, and our books are published for people with autism and Asperger Syndrome themselves, as well as for their families, carers, and the people that work with them. We place a strong emphasis on the voice of the individual. We welcome book proposals and ideas for further development in this field. You can email us or write to us.
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This is an entertaining social skills storybook that will help children with ASDs to understand the importance of taking care of their bodies. Fully illustrated with colour photographs, it sets out fun, simple steps that explain what caring for yourself actually involves – how you can do it, where it is done and why it is important. more »
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Zach Maxwell
Sports Reporter
A win is always good, but it's not always pretty. The Savage Storm women proved that axiom in a 73-58 decision over winless Southern Arkansas on Thursday.
What is pretty: The basketball team's first win streak of the season. Southeastern improves to 4-7 after posting a pair of victories this week – albeit in different years. The Savage Storm started the week by defeating Oklahoma Wesleyan 77-73 on New Year's Eve back in 2012.
This game was sluggish and plagued by poor shooting nearly from start to finish. A whopping 49 free throws were shot between the two teams, with Southeastern going 23-31 from the line and Southern Arkansas 11-18. Forty fouls were called, and there were 48 turnovers (22 on the Storm).
The Lady Muleriders were 20-58 (34.5 percent) from the field, while Southeastern fared a little better at 24-54 (44.4 percent).
Emily Williams led Southeastern with a game-high 17 points. Haley Schaefer added 12, while Taylor Richards and Cheree Kiser had 10 each.Ronay English and Breanna Small-Peppers had seven points each, while Bailey Welch and Natalie Ruud had five each.
Southeastern out-rebounded the Lady Muleriders 43-33 by committee, with five Storm players grabbing four or more boards. Williams topped out the list with seven.
The Savage Storm women held a slim 33-26 lead against SAU (0-10 this season) at halftime. They outscored the Lady Muleriders 40-32 in the second half, but didn't put the game away until the final minutes.
A pair of highlight-reel reverse layups for Richards and a close-range basket for Kiser gave Southeastern a 62-50 lead at the four minute mark.
The ladies of the Savage Storm move to 2-3 in the conference ahead of a 2 p.m. Saturday game against Arkansas-Monticello (2-7, 0-4 GAC). The game will be held at Bloomer Sullivan Arena.


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The Global Decline in Violence |
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Jan13-13, 11:34 PM | #1 |
The Global Decline in Violence
We've occasionally discussed this, but I hadn't seen this talk before:
Basic point: we live in the most peaceful time in human history....But our media and even school system tries to convince us otherwise. Lots of good stats. And discussion: "Why are so many people so wrong about something so important?" |
Jan14-13, 12:33 AM | #2 |
Weird, I was just thinking about this earlier. It's obviously a step in the right direction, for science and just for life in general. We will worry less and less about the violence issue and be able to focus more on 'important' aspects of life.
I did have a counter thought watching the video though.. as human-human violence has declined, has human-nonhuman species violence increased, overall? Of course, on average, humans are more sympathetic towards the suffering of other species (animals/trees) through groups (PETA, Green Movement, etc.) however, it's not seeming to stop our mass-slaughtering of animals and destruction of the world, which could certainly be considered as violence. As human-human violence declines, it seems to be necessary that we find easier ways to satisfy everyone, and we found that solution by ravaging the land and its other inhabitants. Just some food for thought. |
Jan14-13, 12:46 AM | #3 |
By definition, a "hunter-gatherer" does nothing but pillage the land, so I would say that no, "human-nonhuman species violence" has not gotten worse, if "worse" is even an applicable description.
Jan14-13, 12:55 AM | #4 |
The Global Decline in Violence
Hunter gathers did not place animals in slaughtering factories from birth which they have no chance or escaping, nor did they clear-cut forests, set off atomic bombs, nor did they drill into the Earth to extract natural gases to use for energy resulting in the change of the composition of Earth's atmosphere, etc. Also, we are no longer hunter-gathers.
The only point I'm trying to make is violence isn't necessarily exclusive to human interaction. |
Jan14-13, 04:52 AM | #5 |
The global environmental impact of world human population might be considered to have a one to one correspondance with population growth. But that would only be true, if it is at all, if society did not progress technologically as well as by other methods. Addressing what the earth would look like with a hunter-gatherer population of 7 billion, might be one way to compare present society with the past.
Jan14-13, 05:37 AM | #6 |
As long as there is ample quantity and quality of food at the grocery store, or the fact that I can feel warm in my dwelling by just moving a dial, what need do I have of violence? I feel physically threatened by nothing nor nobody. I think MPKU touched upon something when he stated " Case in point: the roman empire had one real reason to invade and conquer the islands of Great Britain - control of supply from the mining operations of gold, tin, copper, silver, and other materials necessary to satisfy the demands of the population back home in Rome. |
Jan14-13, 12:01 PM | #7 |
For what it is worth, I saw a report the other day pointing out a large increase in assaults that are survived; i.e. what would formerly have been homicides now end up as survivable assaults, thanks to modern medical care. In other words some violence is being re-categorized by technology.
Jan15-13, 05:02 AM | #8 |
With the invention of modern weapons war is no longer profitable to the nation as a whole, and instead is almost always a net loss even to the winner. With profit gone war has dropped off radically. Nowadays in modern countries special interest groups profit from war at the expense of the nation in general, so the wars are much smaller. As to why people have such a warped and pessimistic view of the world, a lot of it is that violence sells. No one ever sold a newspaper with headline "MILLIONS LIVING CONTENTED LIVES." The US in particular is saturated with images of violence, but little actual violence. I study a lot of history and it is very clear that the world is much better off than 100 or even 50 years ago. I talk to people about this and they are stunned. They just never thought of it that way. Reading about England 200 years ago, it's like Hell. |
Jan15-13, 05:09 AM | #9 |
Jan24-13, 06:43 AM | #10 |
-Idealized past - people don't know how it looked like, past crime rate is not part of curriculum (there might be however, a hint when we learn about wars in Europe, both after Napoleonic wars, and especially after WW2 one might notice that this "hobby" seem to slowly fail out favour) -Better access to information - a century ago one African tribe could exterminate another tribe, and no-one in Europe would know about it, nowadays there would be horde of journalist soon. -Not calculating statistics for rare events, but merely checking - "Did I hear about committed murder in last week? Yes? Oh, no the crime is up." without checking how far it was from place that one live. |
Jan24-13, 07:46 AM | #11 |
How man people are wrong? How many people really think that the world has not gotten more peaceful? Of course we all deplore violence and commit less violence than in previous ages. Pinker explains this development very well, but nothing of what he said was any news to me. He just presented it in a very clear way. Everybody hopes that we continue on this improving path. I personally dont know anybody who thinks we are going backwards. Can anybody here give a link to a survey on peoples opinion about the trend of violence over recent centuries? . |
Jan24-13, 09:31 AM | #12 |
http://www.people-press.org/1999/10/...ll-of-promise/ A pessimistic one. ;) |
Jan24-13, 02:35 PM | #13 |
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Having said that in a world of decreasing violence it's not surprising that the rare events of violence get more intense media coverage. The knock on effect being that when violent crimes do happen and are reported they seem more severe and scary. |
Jan24-13, 09:51 PM | #14 |
Violence might be declining as a ratio on the population, but the world is becoming more and more populated. There are more human slaves today than there have ever been in history. I will not even go into human to animal violence, because the numbers there are simply staggering, due to the increasing popularity of the meat-based diet in the last few decades. In evolved countries the standard of what is acceptable violence and what is not might be increasing, which might partly explain why we still perceive a lot of violence (i.e. if a couple of centuries ago it might have been considered ok to decapitate a person in public, today it would be considered horrendous by most civilized cultures). Moreover whereas physical violence might have gotten more under control thanks to more protecting laws, mental violence is ever difficult to detect and in my opinion may actually be increasing.
I think violence is a basic property of human nature: I don't think it is decreasing, rather it is mutating in different forms, which are today perhaps more acceptable. It is in my opinion possible that someone from the past would consider horrible some of the actions that are acceptable in the present, and vice-versa. |
Jan25-13, 07:02 AM | #15 |
Pinker says it is a "common understanding" that the world has become a more dangerous place. This is the basis for his interesting talk, but there is no evidence that the majority of people think this. Its a straw man argument. . |
Jan31-13, 01:46 PM | #16 |
the hypothesis of global decline in violence is claimed to be proven on wrong assumptions and uncertain historical estimates from previous unproven reports. A fine example of bad science. In fact the artificial definition of "violence" by King and the funny "time" binning would even show that Hitlers Germany was only a little more violent than what we have today. But, the more important cheating is to take funny time averages. Everybody in his right mind and who wants to be objective can see how war is a great partner of the views promoted by king just this for example .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hsDn2kNriI or the potential to destroy us all with a fingertip not yet used! correct but the weapons are just waiting .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY |
Jan31-13, 01:48 PM | #17 |
sorry the name is Steven Pinker not King
Thread Closed |
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ferretsrluv wrote:I've bought 2 Chinese scooters and NEVER again! They got me to and from work, but once the weather got a little cold, I was left stranded 30 miles from home until it decided to start and STAY running. It was dangerous to leave work and turn the corner and it stop running. Could have easily gotten myself killed.
kwaidonjin wrote:Hi,
Anyone drive a Chinese scooter??? If so where did you buy from? and, would you do it again??? Thanks.
billmeek wrote:Actually, it is a Burgman clone (design-wise) with a smaller engine.
JustPassinThru wrote:Yeah. Hit 800 miles on my Xingyue Son-of-VOG XY300t-4 this morning.
So far, the ONLY complaints I have are, poor fit/finish and poor brakes. ALWAYS starts; and it's been cold here this spring. Started this morning with an outside temperature of 31. Fuel injection makes all the difference - especially over a Chinese carburetor.
I read some of these gripes, and wonder if they're living on the same planet. NONE of these problems - NONE! Not on the 300; and not on the Rowdy-Big-Ruck clone I got for the hell of it.
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I checked out the Pretender last night... lots of venetian blinds in that one!
I checked out the Pretender last night... lots of venetian blinds in that one!
I re-watched Babs Stanwyck and Barry Sullivan in 'Jeopardy' last night. Didn't really hold up from the first time
I saw it (in the middle of the night) some years ago, but still a nice little diversion...
Last edited by David; 01-19-2010 at 06:53 PM.
Watched Inside Job.
Over past few days, add Human Desire and The Mob.
Also viewed Conflict.
I Was A Communist For The FBI
Born To Kill I'm still recovering after being thoroughly blown away.
Dark Passage to relive those two trips I made up the Filbert steps at Noir City last week.
The Big Heat
A double-bill of My Name is Julia Ross--terrific 35mm print--and Two O'Clock Courage in 16. I hadn't seen Ross in 20 some years--great film. Two is a fun if minor B. But there is at least one funny amnesia gag, when Tom Conway replies "Forget it. I did."
I recently re-watched Raw Deal, probably for the sixth or seventh time. It's one of my all-time favorite noirs so I tend to watch it at least once a year. My first exposure to it was years ago when I first discovered film noir. I went to a double feature at a local college....Raw Deal and T-Men. It doesn't get much better than that!
I find Raw Deal to be almost hypnotic...John Alton's stark shadows and mist, the eerie theremin music, and Claire Trevor's weary narration. It's a peek at another world.
And what a great collection of actors...Dennis O'Keefe, Marsha Hunt, John Ireland, and Raymond Burr with his flambe fixation. I could keep going on about this one.
Murder by Contract. A near excellent b noir, with some perfectly taut and brilliant scenes. Edwards is perfectly stolid and menacing in the lead; his terse, gruff delievery reminded me of Eastwood in some of his later flicks. The screenplay felt a little rushed and the two gangsters Vince meets in LA were too clichéd to be effective as humor, but some of the dialogue written was memorable. Another knock would be the back and forth mix of location shots with scenes filmed in studio with projectors but I heard Lerner didn't have much of a budget and the film was shot in one week so I suppose he did the best he could. Perhaps the best thing about the film was the awesome guitar score, which really enhanced the athomsphere and tension in it.
'Blast Of Silence'. Perfect for winter-noir-watching, and Criterion's extras are sensational (as usual).
Such a terrific film (imho)..
I kept thinking about Blast of Silence when watching Murder by Contract. Only a few years apart and simililar in plot (from memory, a Cleveland hitman travels east to NYC in Blast, Ohio hit man travels west to LA in Murder). Not quite the same style directorially and the screenplays diverge about the details and overall characterization, but both films are pretty close to each other and make for a good contrast.
"Clash by Night" (1952) - another great performance by Robert Ryan.
Robert Ryan / Gloria Grahame double feature: Odds Against Tomorrow / Crossfire
Watched 3 last night "The Big Steal " ,"They Live By Night " & "Side street" The Granger/O'donnell pair up is great !
Last two watched were 'Born To Kill' (which I like less and less every time I watch it), and 'The Hitch-Hiker' (which I like more and more)..
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therapy-g 3-Step Kit for Thinning/Fine/Chemically Treated Hair
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RebeccaWashington StateHairDark BrownNormal HairColor Treated HairFine or Thin HairBad Products...very Disappointed!Results aren't in on helping with shedding but after using this system for a few weeks I have already switched back to Kerastase Age Recharge products. The reason being because I touched up my roots then used the Therapy G system on my next shampoo and the color all but disappeared and I had to touch up again! I have been using the same touch up color for years and it has always lasted until my next professional color so this was a little disturbing and I can only think it happened because of the Therapy G products. I have used Vichy Dercos products for over 6 months and although they did not help with shedding they did not strip my color at all. The only reason I even tried the Therapy G system was because it is supposed to be for chemically treated hair, which mine is and I had thought it would be better for my hair and possibly leave my hair in better condition. Wrong! I used the shampoo, treatment and leave in product (with my favorite conditioner) each shampoo and my hair was actually very dull, lifeless, frizzy and dryer than ever before. For that reason, I would think the sampoo is very drying.The spray on treatment which is done in the shower is very tricky to use because wherever it touched my skin, it burned and left redness behind for at least an hour or more. There are warnings on the label about this. It is pretty impossible to spray it only on the scalp (especially if you have any amount of hair) while in the shower and not have some get on skin around the hair or run down the body while waiting and then while it is being rinsed off. It may help to apply while bending over and keeping the head hanging down until it is rinsed off for the recommended amount of time although doing so may be pretty difficult. In my opinion, this spray would be best used and safest if applied by a hair dresser with the head back over a shampoo sink. The leave in spray thickening product left my hair dull and dirty feeling no matter how little I used. Since these products failed to deliver on protecting color or giving me hair that looked even ok, I would certainly not recommend even 1 of the 3 products in this system.posted Oct 25, 2010Link to this post
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Quality Inn & Suites CN937
Choice Preferred Platinum Award
Hotels that achieve the prestigious Platinum Award represent the top 3% of hotels within each Choice brand. The awards are based on a ranking system that measures guest satisfaction, product quality, room condition and cleanliness, and staff service. These properties have a proven track record of providing exceptional guest service and facilities.
1111 rue de L'Escale,
Val d'Or,
Supports Green Practices
"Supports Green Initiatives" designates a hotel's participation in an optional environmental program that includes the use of energy-efficient lighting, guestroom towel/linen re-use, and on-premise recycling. "Supports Green Initiatives" does not represent an official certification of any kind.ROOM RATES FROM
Continue(Price shown is in hotel's local currency)
The Quality Inn & Suites® is located near Centre Air Creebec Arena, Club Sports Belvédère and La Vérendrye Wildlife Reserve. Also nearby are local area attractions like the Galeries Val d'Or, Cité de l'Or, Tour d'Observation Rotary and Carrefour du Nord-Ouest & Grandes Surfaces. Whether travelling for business or leisure, guests will enjoy proximity to local shops and restaurants as well as several large mining and forestry companies.
This Val d'Or hotel offers convenient amenities such as a business centre and meeting rooms, teleconferencing services, free high-speed wireless Internet, an exercise room, multilingual staff and a delicious start to your morning with the Q Corner Cafe. Each of the tastefully appointed suites features mini fridges and microwaves, flat panel televisions, desks, and comfortable pillow-top mattresses.
Guests of the Quality Inn & Suites also enjoy:


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Serve Sweet Treats At Your Halloween PartyImpress your guests with the Halloween Cupcake Holder! This stand will dress up cupcakes, desserts, appetizers, or finger foods at your upcoming Halloween party. Your ghosts and goblins will love any Halloween goody displayed on this cupcake tree.
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text: Try Our Strongsville Hotel Near the Cleveland Airport Though there are many Cleveland area hotels to choose from, few offer an ice rink and the SouthPark mall, near our Strongsville hotel. Business travelers looking for Cleveland area hotels opt for this quiet, convenient location near area businesses, corporate headquarters, and the Cleveland Hopkins Airport. Hotel perks for business guests include 13,000-sq. ft. of meeting space, 24-hour Business Center and complimentary, hotel-wide Wi-Fi. One of the most recently renovated Cleveland area hotels, the Holiday Inn® Strongsville hotel is equipped to meet all your travel needs. Amenities include an indoor pool, Fitness Center, free Wi-Fi, on-site restaurant and complimentary airport shuttle. Reserve a room today at our Strongsville hotel and experience all the comfort and style we have to offer.


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Venue Dates/Times
Stonehaven Beer Festival Thursday, 1st November 2012 5pm - Midnight Friday 2nd November 2012 5pm - Midnight
Saturday 3rd November 2012
Stonehaven Real Ale Festival 2012Countdown to the festival starts now! 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes left
Venue Address
Stonehaven Town Hall
Allardice Street
Tel: +44(0)7840 678243
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This page will display the news items for the 2010 Stonehaven Real Ale Festival. All the 2009 articles can still be found here: Stonehaven Real Ale Festival 2009 News


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picking up the shuckle for my 4 scrumptious candies.
picking up the shuckle for my 4 scrumptious candies.
Trading my Nugget, Love Ball, Chest Berry, Oran Berry, Nanab Berry, Wiki Berry, Rabuta Berry, Petaya Berry, Lansat Berry, Starf Berry, Aspear Berry, Sitrus Berry, Sitrus Berry, Iapapa Berry, Nomel Beerry, Belue Berry and Olive Pokéblock (+ 20 Toughness) for Spectre's Combusken, Mystic Water, Blackglasses x2, Shell Bell, and 4 Candies.
Thanks alot for taking those berries off my back!
Last edited by ForeverFlygon; 10th December 2006 at 7:41 PM.
whoa..., taking the berries for my Combusken, Mystic Water, 2x Black Glasses, Shell Bell, and 4 candies.
Ryusuke, Level 28 (M) @Nothing
+Evolves into at level 36
Species: Wakashamo - Combusken
Classification: #256 Young Fowl Pokemon
Type: Fire/Fighting
Obedience: 0
Recieved: Caught in Volcano Moutain Zone on 7/11/06
Location: Training Center
Home: Pokeball
7: Focus Energy
10: Ember
*16: Peck
16: Double Kick
21: Sand Attack
*25: Fire Spin
28: Bulk Up
32: Quick Attack
39: Slash
43: Mirror Move
50: Sky Uppercut
+Move Tutor: Thunder Punch, Dynamic Punch
+Egg Moves: None
+TM/HM Moves: Rock Smash, Reflect, Endure
Last edited by Spectre; 11th December 2006 at 4:29 AM.
Trading Soft Sand for Ichi's lv.39 Sceptile, 4 candies, TMs Water Pulse and Shockwave, and Repeat Ball. Thanks so much dude, I'll take great care of her.
*trade closed*
Transferring my Sceptile into the Repeat Ball
Teaching TM Water Pulse to my Psyduck
Teaching TM Shock Wave to my Smeargle
Sorry to double post, but trading a Rare Candy for Ushi's female lv. 5 Dunsparce.
This oughta be fun. o0;
Rawst Berry, Rawst Berry2, Rawst Berry3, Rawst Berry4, Sacred Ash, Rabuta Berry, Salac Berry, Aguav Berry, Magost Berry, Iapapa Berry, Nomel Berry, Pecha Berry, Figy Berry, Qualot Berry, Soft Sand.
Oh, and a Pokeblock: Purple
Taste: Spicy
Effect: Raises Coolness by 20
Berries Used: Lum, Razz, Wepear
To Ichimaru.
In return, I shall recieve a Spell Tag, a Fast Ball, a Heavy Ball, a Lure Ball Psychic TM, a Metronome TM, a Dragon Rage TM, a Pay Day TM, a Focus Punch TM, a HP: Fire TM, and a Safeguard TM.
...Thanks dude o0;
volunteer work is great.
trading tms, spell tag, and my balls for the berries and cra-goods.
i am awesome!
Trading my Shoal Shell and my Twistedspoon to Jonouchi for his 2 Rare Candies! Yey!
Probably spelled your username wrong. >>;
No, you got it right =P
Trading two candies to Joe for his Shoal Shell and Twistedspoon.
*Trade Confirmed*
Trading a Pink Pokeblock (Cute +20) to Muyo for a rare candy.


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More Slideshows
1 of 13
By Fast Company Staff | 05-28-2010 | 12:23 PM
May 4, 2010: A ribbon of oil caused by the spill from the BP Deepwater Horizon platform is seen in the water near the Chandeleur Islands, Louisiana. The massive scope of the spill, which began on April 20th with an explosion on the BP rig, is slowly becoming clear.
May 9, 2010: A dead fish is seen on the beach in Lafourche Parish, Louisiana. It is unknown how the fish died. The wellhead of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig is leaking an estimated 5,000 barrels of oil a day into the Gulf and the slick has now reached nearby land. Efforts to contain the spill, including a 98-ton containment box to cap the leak, have done little to slow its flow.
May 10, 2010: One of the New Harbor Islands is protected by two oil booms against the oil slick that has passed inside of the protective barrier formed by the Chandeleur Islands, as cleanup operations continue. As of May 28, over 3 million feet of boom have been deployed in the disaster at a cost of approximately $60 million.
May 15, 2010: Trish Webster enjoys the beach as workers pass by as they search the beach for tar balls to be picked up as they wash ashore from the Deepwater Horizon site in Dauphin Island, Alabama. "It's tragic that this is happening," said Webster. Oil continues to leak out of the Deepwater Horizon wellhead as BP works on slowing the leak and containing the oil in the Gulf of Mexico. The growing slick threatens to hamper tourism in all Gulf states affected by the spill. Alabama raked in $2.3 billion from beach tourism in 2008 alone.
May 17, 2010: The letters BP, inscribed in sand and oil by a Greenpeace activist, are shown on a beach at the mouth of the Mississippi River near Venice, Louisiana. BP announced today that it is successfully siphoning off 1,000 barrels of oil per day from the Deepwater Horizon oil rig that exploded and sank to the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico April 22, killing 11 crew members. The amount of oil escaping from the well is a matter of dispute, making the success of BP's effort difficult for regulators to ascertain.
May 17, 2010: Greenpeace marine biologist Paul Horsman inspects oil washed in with the tide on a beach at the mouth of the Mississippi River on May 17, 2010 near Venice, Louisiana. The slick threatens migratory birds, mammals, and all manner of marine life in Louisiana's wetlands.
May 19, 2010: Crews conduct overflights of controlled burns taking place in the Gulf of Mexico. Controlled burns, skimmers, and chemical dispersants are just some of the tools that cleanup crews are using in the spill. Scientists also now believe that the spill has reached the Loop Current, a warm ocean current that could carry the slick to the Florida Straits.
May 22, 2010: An oil-covered crab crawls past a blob of oil on the beach on Grand Isle, Louisiana. More than a month after BP's Deepwater Horizon well exploded, oil continues gushing from the well and is coating beaches and marshland along the Louisiana coast.
May 23, 2010: A BP cleanup crew removes oil from a beach at Port Fourchon, Louisiana. The situation is growing increasingly desperate as BP's attempts to stop the spill fail.
May 24, 2010: BP CEO Tony Hayward answers questions from the media on an oil-stained beach at Port Fourchon, Louisiana. Hayward said that BP is doing everything possible to clean up the massive oil spill still gushing into the Gulf of Mexico. Officials now say, however, that it may be impossible to clean the hundreds of miles of coastal wetlands and islands affected.
May 26, 2010: Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal (3rd L) scoops crude oil from the water during a tour of areas where oil has come ashore with Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser (2nd L), James Carville (2nd R) and Anderson Cooper (R) in Blind Bay, Louisiana. As BP prepares to try and stop the oil leak with a 'top kill' method, the Louisiana coastline is reeling from the effects of the continued gusher.
May 26, 2010 Reporter Anderson Cooper is reflected in oil filled water during a tour of areas where oil has come ashore in Blind Bay, Louisiana. The next day, marine scientists identified a 22 mile underwater oil plume heading towards Alabama. Top Kill appears to be working, but BP won't make any definitive statements.
Photo by Stan Honda/AFP/Getty ImagesPhoto by Joe Raedle/Getty ImagesPhoto by Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty ImagesPhoto by Joe Raedle/Getty ImagesPhoto by John Moore/Getty ImagesPhoto by John Moore/Getty ImagesPhoto by John Kepsimelis/U.S.Coast Guard via BloombergPhoto by John Moore/Getty ImagesPhoto by John Moore/Getty ImagesPhoto by John Moore/Getty ImagesPhoto by Win McNamee/Getty ImagesPhoto by Win McNamee/Getty Images


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Of course we know that OU has a littl bit more proven talent in the passing game but the 'Horns are improving in the running game or so we hear.
I'd make a guess that the betting line will pick the Sooners by 3, but football is an emotional game and late in the second half lots of games are won by the Offensive Line and just plain old fashioned GUTS.
You can have the "pretty boys" I will take the best Offensive and Defensive Lines and TEXAS has the best of it in those departments.
I am picking Texas to go ahead in the 4th Quarter in a low scoring game. They will use Shiply and McCoy as decoys and the running game will be the deciding factor......but this is JULY - who knows - arrests, injuries, illness, etc add up.....it's a game of ATTRITION.
Attached Files
Edited by Exporter, 05 July 2012 - 07:01 AM.


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Hearts of the City: The Selected Writings of Herbert Muschamp
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With her acclaimed novels Harvest and Life Support, Tess Gerritsen has injected a powerful dose of adrenaline into t
J is for Judgment (Kinsey Millhone Alphabet Mysteries, No. 10)
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Adventure fiction |


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– Most of my wheat collection is older varieties plus a couple of more recent ones that are recommended for wheat weaving. They generally grow 3′ – 4′ tall and mature easily. They range from the Triticum monococcum varieties, which date back to the beginning of civilization, to the products of Canada's wheat breeding program this past century (with date of introduction in brackets following the name). Wheats are all very decorative but Utrecht Blue, the three Triticum monococcums, Polish, Vavilovii and Emmer would be especially attractive in dried arrangements. If you are thinking of growing your own wheat for eating, Spelt, Emmer, Utrecht Blue, and Triticum monococcum are very difficult to thresh by hand.
Each year I grow a part of my wheat collection at St. Peter's Abbey and invite the public to a field day to view the wheats on the third Sunday in August. People are also welcome at other times but please contact me first. To view photographs of my wheat collection, visit the Abbey website, and go to the section called "Organics" and then to "Ancient Wheats:" www.stpetersabbey.ca
(Triticum aestivum) has always been the main wheat grown on the prairies. Here is a selection of Canadian bred cultivars and ones used in early Canadian wheat breeding programs:
RED FIFE – First grown in Canada in 1843. Yield and quality are very good but this is a late variety and so risks frost damage.
EARLY RED FIFE – Selected from Red Fife in 1903, it is three days earlier than its parent.
MARQUIS (1910) – A selection from Hard Red Calcutta x Red Fife which has the quality of Red Fife and the earliness of Hard Red Calcutta. It was the main wheat grown in Western Canada in the 1920′s and 1930′s.
THATCHER (1935) – The main wheat grown on the prairies when I was growing up in the 1950′s. It was selected from a cross with Marquis.
SAUNDERS (1947) – Comes from a Thatcher cross and is two days earlier than Thatcher. It is famous as a show wheat.
PRELUDE (1913) – The earliest maturing wheat bred in Canada. It is a high protein variety. The heads have short beards.
HURON (1925) – A bearded wheat from a cross made in 1888 in Ottawa. Hardy and good yielding mid season variety that is still grown in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.
LADOGA – The bearded heads, which bend over when mature, are very easy to thresh. Came to Canada from northern Russia in 1887.
HARD RED CALCUTTA – Was imported from India in the late 1800′s. It was not widely grown in Canada as it was quite variable and its milling quality is poor, but it is very early and passed this quality on to Marquis.
I also have small quantities of the following hard red spring wheats which were bred or grown in Canada. They were all the work of Agriculture Canada except Ceres, Red Bobs and Kitchener. Wheat breeding is a long process so the dates are somewhat uncertain, sometimes the year of the initial cross and sometimes when they were first grown in farmers' fields.
BISHOP – Ladoga x Gehun, Ottawa, 1891.
STANLEY – Ladoga x Red Fife, Ottawa, 1903.
PRESTON – Ladoga x Red Fife, Ottawa, 1903.
GARNET – Preston x Riga, Ottawa, 1905. For more information about Garnet, see www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/19/garnetwheat.shtml
KITCHENER — Selection from Marquis, Seager Wheeler, Rosthern, SK, 1911.
RED BOBS – Probably Bobs x Early Red Fife, Seager Wheeler, Rosthern, SK, 1911.
CERES – Marquis x Kota, North Dakota Exp. Stn., 1918.
CANTHATCH – Thatcher x Kenya Farmer, 1959. Better rust-resistance than Thatcher.
SELKIRK – (McMurachy x Exchange) x Redman, Winnipeg, 1939.
CHINOOK – Thatcher x S 615-11. Lethbridge, 1952. Sawfly resistant.
RESCUE – Apex x S 615. Swift Current, 1946. Stem rust and sawfly resistant.
CANUS – Marquis x Kanred – U. of Minn, 1918. Selected at U. of Alta. 1929.
REWARD – Marquis x Prelude. Ottawa 1912. Licensed in 1928.
RELIANCE – Kanred xMarquis. Cross made by USDA, 1917. Registered in Canada in 1932.
RUBY – Downy Gehun x Onega –>Downy Riga WT Macoun 1891. Downy Riga x Red Fife –> Ruby CE Saunders 1905.
PARK – Early maturing cultivar from a Thatcher cross, 1963.
(T. sphaerococcum) – Short and very upright. The heads are rather short and look like bottle brushes. The kernels are plump and almost round.
(T. compactum) – Widely grown for food before common bread wheat dominated wheat growing. The heads and beards are short, the yield is good, and it threshes easily, producing plump blond kernels.
(T. polonicum) – Has large bearded seed heads. The seeds are long and about twice the size of ordinary wheat.
(T. durum) – Has seeds a bit larger than bread wheat. It is used in the production of pasta and is also the preferred wheat for wheat weaving.
PELISSIER came to the USA from Algeria in 1900. In 1921 a selection was made at U. of SK which was registered in 1936. A drought resistant cultivar with black beards. Known in the USA as Peliss. I have mistakenly offered this cultivar as Palliser.
WAKOOMA – Lakota x Pelissier, 1973.
MEDORA – Ward x Macoun, 1982. Blond beards.
I received two samples of decorative wheat and they grew well here. Although they are probably named varieties, I do not know their names.
BLACK has long (4″-5″) black heads and beards.
TAN/BLUE has short plump heads, tan with metallic blue highlights and beards.
(T. vavilovii) – Named after the great Russian plant scientist and collector. This old wheat has a very irregular seed head and is somewhat difficult to thresh.
RIVET or POULARD WHEAT
(T. turgidum) – An old wheat species with large blond grains that are used in the production of pasta.
RIVET (T. turgidum) is similar in appearance to Vavilovii except that the heads are bearded.
POULARD (T. turgidum ssp. turgidum) has plump blond heads with black beards, somewhat like durum wheat.
(T. timopheevi) – An ancient grain cultivated in the Republic of Georgia. With its slender stems and flat heads, it looks like a larger, more robust T. monococcum. Also difficult to thresh.
(T. zhukovskyi) – Another ancient cultivated grain from the Republic of Georgia. Heads somewhat longer than T. timopheevi.
– Has dark green plants with fairly short plump heads with long beards. Large blond seeds.
– Has tall blue-grey plants that are a bit late maturing. The heads are large and slightly branched with medium beards.
– Has grey-green plants with weak stems that lodge easily. The heads are slender with medium beards and the seeds are long and slender, looking more like a wheat grass than a wheat. Named after a city in Iran.
(T. monococcum) – Is most likely the earliest domesticated wheat.
BLACK EINKORN has flat black heads that are not very long and resemble the heads of crested wheat grass.
BLOND is very similar to Black Einkorn but the plants are shorter and the blond heads are also shorter.
Despite its name ALASKA SPELT is a T. monococcum, and as such resembles the 2 preceding varieties. It is the tallest of the three and has rich yellow brown seed heads.
– My most decorative wheat. The blue heads with black beards bend over when mature. This variety was still grown around Utrecht (Netherlands) in the early 1900′s.
(T. dicoccum) – tall variety with long bearded light brown seed heads that bend over when mature.
(T. spelta) – Has long (up to 6″) slim heads which break easily. Plants and heads bend over when ripe. Although most spelts are fall seeded, this is a spring seeded variety.
(Triticum X. Secale) – A cross between wheat and rye. The kernels are rather wrinkled and not as plump as those of wheat. WELSH TRITICALE (1978) was named in memory of the late Dr. John Welsh, who in 1955 performed the first wheat-rye crosses at the University of Manitoba. It has long bearded heads and is used for wheat weaving.
(Avena sativa nuda) – TERRA has large naked kernels and is (or was) grown on a field scale on the prairies. BATON is a newer variety that is a few days later than Terra, with a bit plumper seeds. It seems to thresh out more completely than Terra. VICAR was developed in Winnipeg in the 1940′s and was the first licensed hulless oat variety in Canada. A mid season to late variety. Named after George MacVicar of Portage la Prairie. We cook the oats whole and use them as a substitute for rice.
(Hordeum vulgare) – I now have two hulled barleys which are short and early and have black heads. BLACK ALBERTA is a 6-row barley and BLACKHEART a 2-row barley; Blackheart has the darker beards.
(Hordeum vulgare) – ETHIOPIAN has large dark brown pointed seeds. EXCELSIOR has attractive purplish bearded seed heads and purple seeds. SPECIAL MIX contains purple , grey , and blond seeded varieties.
Wheat, triticale, oats, barley 10g @ $2.50
– PROSO MILLET (Panicum miliaceum) has heads of loose panicles of blond seeds. The small seed is used to feed birds. The heads also look good in dried arrange- -9- ments. I now have a second cultivar of proso millet which came with the name BRONZE MILLET. It is very similar to the first except for its shiny brown seeds.
5g @ $2.50
(Phalaris canariensis) – Grown on a field scale in Saskatchewan for birdseed. The compact heads on tall stems are used in dried arrangements.
Packet @ $2.50
(Amaranthus sp.) – A traditional food, ornamental and dye plant. It is a domesticated variety of pigweed and a native American crop. The plants are sturdy, generally growing from 4′-8′ tall. The large leaves are green or red and the seed heads are red, yellow, brown or multicoloured. The grain varieties are grown for their heavy yield of small blond seeds which are rich in protein (16-18%). They also complement corn and wheat to make a complete protein. Sow them after danger of frost is past. When the plants have dried after a heavy frost in the fall, cut the seed heads, thresh and winnow. The seeds can be popped, sprouted, milled into flour or cooked whole. The young and tender leaves can be cooked and eaten like spinach.
R158 was developed by Johnny's Selected Seeds and Rodale Research Centre. The leaves and seed heads are mostly red. It is early and heavy yielding. POPPING AMARANTH has a large multicoloured seed head. GOLDEN AMARANTH has large golden brown seed heads on sturdy plants. BURGUNDY is a striking deep red plant over 7′ tall.
(Chenopodium quinoa) – The staple food of the Incas, Quinoa is grown for its seeds but can also be harvested young for its greens. It is a domesticated variety of lamb's quarters, growing 4′-8′ tall. The seeds and seed heads vary greatly in colour. The seeds are higher in protein than cereal grains and somewhat resemble millet and sesame seeds. The seeds are covered with a bitter tasting saponin which is removed by rinsing in cold water. Cook the seeds whole (cooking time about 20 minutes) or grind into flour. Quinoa produces a heavy yield of seeds, resists frost and drought well, and tolerates poor soil. Perhaps this plant has a future as a field crop in Saskatchewan.
TEMUCO gives a good yield of small blond seeds and is the variety I have grown most often. ISLUGA YELLOW has medium-sized yellow seeds. DAVE #407 has medium yellow – brown seeds and is probably the most widely grown variety in western Canada. KCOITO has large seeds which are either purple-red or slate-grey.
(Papaver somniferum) – I am growing 3 edible seeded varieties. They have large flowers that fade in about 24 hours, and large seed heads. The MAUVE-FLOWERED and PINK-FLOWERED varieties have grey-blue seeds. The PERSIAN (WHITE-FLOWERED) poppy has white seeds, but they are all used similarly in poppy seed cake or on rolls.
Amaranth, Quinoa, and Poppies 1g @ $2.50
(Helianthus annuus) – Each year I seed a row of black-seeded RUSSIAN sunflowers in the garden and they make a lovely show. They are tall with medium-sized heads and plump seeds. Sunflowers cross easily so you will surely have some plants with black and white seeds.
10g @ $2.50
(Plantago psyllium) – An annual growing 1′ to 2′ high and about as wide that produces a heavy seed crop. The ground seeds are consumed as a natural laxative, can be consumed as sprouts or to produce an edible oil rich in linoleic acid.
Packet @ $2.50
All the herbs are now found with Flowers, Seed Crops and Leaf Crops


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Categories in Apparel (6)
Revco Apparel
If you need outer wear or just a sturdy pair of work clothes we have the items you need to work hard and look good, from pants, to shirts and overalls as well as work gloves and boots, we have everything you need for a good days work.
Revco 15HVSpandex & Synthetic Leather Storm Cuff Hi-Vis Insulated Mechanic's GlovesStarting at: $10.89
Revco 19MXPFlexHand™ QX Stnd. Reinforced Padded Mechanic's Gloves - Synthetic LeatherStarting at: $11.19
Revco 99ACE-PWTool Handz Frost Snug-Fitting Insulated Reinforced GlovesStarting at: $16.89
Revco BW50Waterproof BSX® Reinforced Grain Pigskin Winter GlovesStarting at: $16.19


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Outside Sales Representative -Eugene, OR
Listing Info
ShiftJobSalesDay JobLike a healthy lawn, Scotts LawnService is growing! And it's the perfect time for energetic, team-oriented candidates to check us out. If you like working independently, with only general supervision, in a fast-paced team environment, Scotts is the perfect place for you. We offer excellent compensation-benefits plans and the excitement that's a daily part of playing on the best service team in the business. The Primary responsibility for the Outside Sales Rep is to sell in a neighborhood environment. Sales activity is driven by knocking on residential homeowner's door's and engaging the home owner in a sales conversation. Responsibilities:
- Knock on a minimum number of doors on a daily basis to meet or exceed daily and weekly sales goals assigned.
- After obtaining consent, accurately measure homeowners' lawns and provide to each prospect a professional, individualized lawn analysis and program sales recommendation, including extra services.
- Accurately complete all required paperwork. Leave behind approved Scotts LawnService sales and marketing literature.
- Make follow-up phone calls, as requested by prospective customer, on a daily basis.
- D2D sales rep must be able to consistently hit or exceed their sales goals. Consistency in performance is important.
- Competitive Salary
- Industry and Company Training
- Advancement Opportunities
- Full Range of Benefits that Include 401k & Discounted Stock Purchase Plan for Full Time Associates
We Are Looking For Highly Motivated Individuals Who Meet The Following
We are looking for highly motivated individuals who meet the following
- High School Diploma (or GED).
- Bachelor's Degree preferred.
- Valid Drivers License.
- Excellent oral and written communication skills.
- Ability to lift 15 pounds, and stand or walk for 8-10 hours/day while pushing/carrying lawn measuring equipment.
- Access to reliable transportation for independent use during work hours.
- Able and willing to work in various/extreme weather conditions (8-10 hours per day).
- Ability to work in a team environment.
- Advanced problem solving skills and proven time management are a must.
- Ability to work in a results-oriented environment.
- Previous industry experience not required.
To apply please click 'Apply now'
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More Information about Joe Satriani Tickets
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22500 Town Circle
Moreno Valley, CA 92553
(951) 653-6161
Fwy 60 & Center Point Dr., at Moreno Valley Mall
Showtimes available for purchase (clickable) are blue
example: 7:45pm
Showtimes not available for online purchase are grey
example: 11:30am
Child Tickets: 3-13 years old.
Senior Tickets: 60 years and older.
Not all ticket types are available for all performances.
BUY TICKETS - 5:30pm, 7:10pm, 8:10pm, 9:50pm, 10:50pm
BUY TICKETS - 5:10pm, 6:40pm, 7:30pm, 8:15pm, 10:00pm, 10:40pm, 11:15pm
BUY TICKETS - 5:20pm, 6:05pm, 7:00pm, 8:00pm, 8:40pm, 9:40pm, 10:30pm, 11:10pm
BUY TICKETS - 5:15pm, 7:15pm, 8:20pm, 10:15pm, 11:15pm


text: On June 21, at the San Diego County Fair, The Don Diego Fund Doobie Brothers Dinner and Concert Gala will support annual scholarships to outstanding, college-bound, San Diego County high school seniors and a program that introduces elementary students from low-income areas to farming and nutrition. Among the featured silent auction items are a large framed Phil Mickelson display containing an autographed 18th hole flag from the 2010 Masters and two photos, and a round of golf at the Rancho Santa Fe Golf Club. Guests will also enjoy hosted cocktails and a gourmet dinner in the Turf Club followed by VIP stage-front seating in the Grandstand for the concert. Individual tickets are $150. The Don Diego Fund is a nonprofit scholarship program of the San Diego County Fair. It was formed in 1986 as a lasting tribute to Tom Hernandez, who, in the role of Don Diego, served as the legendary goodwill ambassador of the fair from 1947 until his death in 1984. To date, the fund has awarded $536,000 in scholarships and grants, helping 126 students pursue higher education. (858/792-4210, www.dondiegofund.org) JANE SHIOMI