text:
Wednesday, June 6, 2012: I awoke this morning after yesterday's election to be greeted by people on various social media, making threats, either directly or indirectly, against the life of Gov. Scott Walker, his wife and even his children.
This is absolutely irresponsible and unacceptable behavior by those making the threats.
I don't care how impassioned the contest is and how disappointed one is, no elected official should ever be subjected to threats towards them or their families. This type of behavior makes it impossible to engage in a meaningful dialogue. It cheapens the cause in which one is supporting and detracts from the credibility of one's position.
We saw this type of behavior emerge shortly after the budget repair bill protests began and now that Gov. Walker and Lt. Governor Rebecca Kleefisch have been reaffirmed after winning the recall against them, it is rearing its ugly head again. We on the left must make a stand and strongly condemn this thuggish behavior, stopping it whenever it emerges.
It is my hope that the media investigates the perpetrators and when identified, spread their names and images all over the front pages and the TV screens; followed by prosecution to the full extent of the law.
We on the left must take the moral high ground and refuse to be a part of such unsavory activity. I know how disrupting and unsettling such threats can be after experiencing threats from the extreme right. Let cooler heads prevail.
Bob McBride
8:05 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
"We on the left must take the moral high ground and refuse to be a part of such unsavory activity."
It's not a matter of a moral high ground, Lyle. This kind of activity, really, is perfectly understandable as a part of the whole recall process, which was primarily driven by emotional appeals, not logic. This is the course your side decided to pursue and these are the aftershocks. Slaps in the face, death threats and now, the continual insistence that the election results were bought and paid for, simply because your side's national organization realized early on that this was a lost cause and had no will to dump resources into it. Until your side comes to grips with the reality of the situation, rather than clinging to the imaginary and hyper-inflated story line that drove the recall in the first place, this will not stop.
Lyle Ruble
9:16 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Bob McBride....I don't care if it is understandable, it is completely unacceptable. Whenever the extremes take over, even if it is emotively based, we as a society and individuals cannot tolerate such behavior. This is not only a problem on the left, but on the right as well.
As a member of the left, I feel a responsibility to do what I can to bring some reason to the situation. The left is always being accused of calling out the thuggish behavior of extremists on the right, but ignoring it on our side. I am of the mind to rein in such behavior on the left before it gets to far out of hand. If we are ever going to heal the societal rift with honor, then we must de-fang the extremists on both the left and the right and promote zero tolerance..
Bob McBride
9:35 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Of course its unacceptable, Lyle, but unless you acknowledge its source you can't address it properly. This is not about a moral high ground. it's about one side hyping up the emotions of its base via false claims and scare tactics to a degree that produced such a sense of panic that when it failed, it produced a reaction of this nature. And it continues on, today, with this whole 99% and Occupy nonsense. It's the methodology employed and the mentality behind it that results in an absolute inability to accept defeat on the part of some. You toy with people's emotions, this is what you get.
Lyle Ruble
10:11 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Bob McBride...Are you claiming this is only a tactic of the Left?
Jay Sykes
10:18 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Lyle.... As, i am blinded by the recent Wisconsin events, please cite some comparable examples over a similar time frame.
J. B. Schmidt
10:32 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Yes, I think that Bob is hinting to the Left being the problem in Wisconsin and that you liberals lost the high ground when you sided with the people harassing Walker's family in Tosa.
As further proof, after Barrett's concession, you liberals were slapping each other. So yes, the unbridled emotion and irrational actions belong to the Democrats.
Bob McBride
10:36 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle, I'm claiming its a tactic and its use results in the kinds of things you're seeing now. The time to call it out for what it is, is now. It's got nothing to do with a moral high ground.
James R Hoffa
2:09 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Lyle -
I believe that what Bob is trying to say is that the left ran a campaign that preyed upon the emotions of its members. A doom and gloom campaign, convincing its members with propaganda and rhetoric that if Walker were to win the recall, it would be the end of everything that your side believes in for all eternity - an apocalypses of biblical proportions if you will. And many on your side drank the koolaid - the guy who was interviewed on CNN claiming "tonight, democracy died," the supporter who slapped Barrett for conceding, and the non-stop denial of the leftist media on election night are all a perfect exemplification of the mindset that this year and a half long indoctrination had produced.
In other words, you guys mixed-up a particularly strong brand of poison and now your members/supporters are hooked like junkies. What we're seeing right now are withdrawal symptoms, which would naturally be expected once you get someone hooked / DEPENDENT / addicted.
5:00 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Before these leftists start making death threats against ANYONE, they should stop and ponder that Wisconsin issued 600,000 deer permits to hunters last year. That's 600,000 people "under arms" and I SERIOUSLY doubt many of them were "liberals." That's more armed men and women than in the whole Iranian Army and in only ONE State. By the way, not one was accidentally killed, even with all that shooting going on. Add in the other States and you're looking at around 50 MILLION people with arms...most of them with extensive shooting experience. Take notice, you on the left and your thugs in the unions.
Lyle Ruble
5:12 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@pappadave...What in the hell is wrong with you? We are attempting to tone down the rhetoric and threats. You pop up about gun ownership and an implied threat to armed conflict; thanks for helping the situation. If conservatives are in full control of the state are you proposing a hunt for liberals? As ridiculous as it sounds, if you carried out your train of thought, then something like that is not out of the realm of reason. Please tone it down and remain respectful.
James R Hoffa
5:48 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Pappadave -
I agree with Lyle. That kind of talk is stupid, immature, unnecessary, and counter-productive. It is in complete contrast with what Lyle is advocating for in this blog.
It also is a poor representation of the conservative side of the argument. Please, think a little more before your next post.
10:26 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle - I would love you to comment on the event that took place in MKE last night. What is the purpose of this exactly? And look at the endorsers:
Endorsers - Occupy, 9 to 5, Amalgamated Transit Union Local 998, MKE Teachers Education Association (MTEA), Milwaukee Graduate Assistants Association (MGAA), Voces de la Frontera, Welfare Warriors, Casa Maria, WI Bailout the People Movement, Iraq Veterans Against the War, AFSCME 82, Move to Amend, Milwaukee Students for a Democratic Society, Peace Action WI, Milwaukee Fransiscan Action Network, Milwaukeeans for a Better Tomorrow Tomorrow, Act Everywhere, Occupy Riverwest, Occupy the Suburbs, Milwaukee Transit Riders Union, Progressive Democrats of America.
The student arm of Voces de la Frontera called YES was also very active in Racine on election day. Where did they get all of the money to pay for all of those vans? Isn't it interesting that the Labor Center is using students to push their agenda? Do you think RUSD would be so tolerant if a conservative student group did the same thing? It would be one thing if this were all innocent, but it's not.
Interesting that Voces Received an award for community organizing by progressive radicals in Sept. Van Jones? Frances Fox Piven? They are known street fighters.
Lyle Ruble
1:37 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@conservachick...The first question that has to be asked is what do these groups have in common. Clearly, they all feel that they have been disenfranchised in some manner. Now, whether they have or not, is an issue for debate. But, what means do they have to address their grievances? Even though they are organized into identifiable organizations; what official standing do they have? Other than being organized, they have no real power to affect change.
Going to the streets, to protest, is the only way to exercise limited power and manifest it beyond personal dissatisfaction. Street protests are designed to raise awareness of the uninvolved,. uncommitted and the unaware members of society. It is all about creating conditions to force change.
Social institutions, whether governmental, financial, educational, religious, or business are all designed to be resistant to change and to maintain the status que. Change occurs when the uncommitted majority are convinced that change needs to occur. Individuals, by nature, are also resistant to change and will resist making such changes until they have been sufficiently motivated that change is required. The whole purpose of demonstrations is to motivate such change. It is well documented in the disciplines of social science that the more politically conservative one is, the more resistant to social change one is.
Lyle Ruble
1:54 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@conservachick...There is a fine line separating awareness raising and rabble rousing and traditionally the young have difficulty separating the two. The trick in public protesting is to walk the fine line to get your message heard without inciting too strong a reaction or physical violence. It should also be noted, that if you believe that "such and such group" have not been disenfranchised or harmed, that you will discount their message and the reasons for demonstrating their discontent. It is curious to watch those who condemn the current protest movements who are actively engaged in the Tea Party movement and their demonstrations. People on the right see the reasons for Tea Party demonstrations as legitimate and demonstrations on the left for social justice as illegitimate. It is all a case of perspective and belief. Now who is really legitimate? It all depends on your personal beliefs.
I am a socialist, actually a social democrat, and see that the problems of society can best be rectified through collective or communal actions. This translates that people's basic needs should be guaranteed by the government since no one private entity is large enough to adequately address such. I know, that in this society that I represent a small minority, but I continue to express my beliefs, even in the light of continued criticism. This is one of the privileges of living in this democracy.
James R Hoffa
2:28 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Lyle -
"People on the right see the reasons for Tea Party demonstrations as legitimate and demonstrations on the left for social justice as illegitimate."
This statement could not be further from the truth. The problem that those on the right have with the leftist demonstrations is not that they view them as illegitimate, but rather take issue with the way in which the leftists conduct their demonstrations.
The Tea Party obtains permits, hires private security, does not inconvenience others, and ALWAYS cleans up after themselves. Contrast this with leftist demonstration that usual invaded public property en mass without the appropriate permits (the cornerstone of the Occupy movement), inconveniences others for their own selfish purposes (like closing down bridges during prime time rush hour traffic), relies upon government for security and crowd control, engages in uncivil behaviors such as defecating/urinating on public property, use of illegal narcotics, destruction of public and private property, etc., and almost ALWAYS leaves behind a big mess for others to clean up.
That is the problem that the right has with the leftist demonstration - not that it finds them illegitimate, but rather finds their means disrespectful to others, the public infrastructure/resources, and rule of law in general - because in reality, THEY ARE!!!
Lyle Ruble
2:59 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@JRH...I get what Bob is referring to. But it impacts both sides. Leaders of the Tea Party movement have fanned the flames of discord in their own manner. Sarah Palin never condemned the rhetoric and things going out over the internet that resulted in death threats to public officials. Now, you want to hold Democratic leaders responsible for the escalation, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but you don't want to hold Republican and conservative leaders responsible, since you claim they haven't engaged in throwing gasoline on the fire. Republican leadership calling union members thugs, people working for government as feeding from the public trough, etc is OK in your book. What about all the threats I've personally received with reference to exercise of someone's second amendment rights?
You seem to want things to change on the left when you won't even admit that the right has been doing the same thing. I am attempting to clean up on the left, but you on the right are claiming it's the left's problem and the right is lily white. I'm not buying it for a "New York minute". Our koolaid may be grape flavored, but your koolaid is cherry flavored. Whether or not you attempt to clean up the right or not is your decision, but I will continue to work to clean up my side.
J. B. Schmidt
3:37 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Having been at a Tea Party rally in Madison, I saw first hand the thug behavior of the unions. When our group tried to leave, the Iron Workers cut off and choked off our exist to a point where we were almost marching single file through the union members. As I walked away, with my then 7yr old son in toe, I had profanity yelled at the back of head.
Maybe the 'leaders' of the tea party used the coarse languages to identify actions that deserved the coarse language. My story is one of many. While your side has few if any stories like that. It is hard for me to experience that and then listen you and other liberals beg for unity and to tone down the rhetoric. The number of mainstream liberals that have called us tea baggers is almost 100%. Such actions do not have an equal on the conservative/republican side.
3:53 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
What's your point, J.B.? Since someone used coarse language at you and because the term 'tea-bagger' has been generally used that makes all of us vulgar and negates our political views?
Union thugs, sucking at the public teat, public trough, get a job, stop living in filth and squalor -- that's all been directed at me and Lyle, and it's a constant strain not to descend to that level in return.
The bad behavior of a very vocal few does not tarnish the whole side. At least I hope not for your sake.
5:08 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Lyle -- One isn't "disenfranchised" when one is permitted one's constitutional right to vote. However, one should also understand that a right to vote is a right you may exercise only ONCE per election. If any of these "protestors" were "disenfranchised" of anything, it was the "right" to commit voter fraud...which, oddly enough, REALLY disenfranchises honest voters...and voter fraud was rampant in Racine, apparently, and took many forms. How the left an be "pleased" to eke out a win by cheating is a mystery to me. If I won a golf match by cheating, I'd never be able to look at myself in the mirror again...let alone cheat to inflict destructive policies on the body politic.
5:13 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Plus, demonstrations like the OWS craziness aren't designed to "raise awareness" of the uncommitted, uninvolved and uncaring. They are designed to INTIMIDATE--much like the union thugs hanging around polling places and listening to pollsters forced voters to lie about how they voted, lest they be attacked in one way or another by these thugs if they told the truth. THAT'S why the exit polls didn't agree with the actual votes counted.
Lyle Ruble
5:47 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@pappadave....It sounds like you have a lot of open wounds that you want to use as justification for further inflammatory rhetoric. I would think that you are of the opinion that we are still fighting over public union collective bargaining and the recall. That's done. Now it's time to reconcile and get ready for the next round of policy disagreements.
Ima Hippee
8:41 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle? Just what on this great earth are you saying? You are so knotted up in your own unresolved violence guilt you can't type straight.
"Sarah Palin never condemned the rhetoric and things going out over the internet that resulted in death threats to public officials."
Great Scott Lyle! Talk about an attack on women. Ms. Palin has literally been in the "crosshair" of your side since her introduction on the national political scene. You knew nothing about her and her face was in the crosshairs.
Stop with your sanctimonious pacifist drivel.
Lyle Ruble
7:27 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...Why would you ever take a seven year old to a political demonstration?
J. B. Schmidt
9:16 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
I took my child to a Tea Party rally because I knew it would be a good experience for my child. I was right. Everyone was respectful, the tone was upbeat and it was great to show my child that adults can gather peacefully. It was upon our exit where we were shown the contrast in sensibilities.
What you fail to accept is the different approaches taken by the opposing sides. We will you remove your plutocrat oligarchy B.S. (since those words can be applied to almost any authority figure and produce a false positive). The tea party rallies were filled with people exhibiting a strong love for country and a determination to leave it better then they inherited it (something that cannot be said for the majority of the boomer generation). They were supporting the democratic process and political figures willing to stick their necks out to return power to the people.
In contrast, the unions, teachers and public employees were marching around the capital (many with kids and strollers) mad that they had lost some of their privileges they had been falsely been told were rights. Unions had pumped them full of anger from propaganda and lies. Hence, they interacted in mass with the tea party with hate (a reaction not displayed in reverse). Emotion fueled their rage and not logic.
This is why I think your article is grossly disingenuous. The divide was not equally produced. You can't now take the high ground, when your side excavated the low ground.
Lyle Ruble
10:14 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...You never cease to amaze me. Subjecting your son to a situation like that would hardly be something that I would call a "good experience". A reasonable person would understand that there would be a high probability of confrontation given the mood of participants, especially with union activists there. Why is it so difficult for you to see and admit that you probably didn't exercise the best judgement.
When all else fails, blame it on the "boomers".
J. B. Schmidt
10:55 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Oh Great One, what is the proper age for a political rally? Were the kids the teachers were walking over to union protests in Madison old enough? In fact, why were teachers walking kids there anyway, at least my son was under the supervision of his parent.
You are completely missing the problem here. It is not my poor parenting, as I will restate there were many children walking around the capital that day holding 'Support the Teachers' signs and I personally know of teacher families that made the trip to protest the governor over the course of the past year; this is about the liberal demonstrators lacking all self control because they were emotional charged by union/democrat propaganda.
Had I known that your ilk lacked all decency and was willing to attack a man and his child with vile verbal insults; my son would not have come. Hindsight being what it is, I know understand that liberals have no bottom floor when it comes to civility. If my open mindedness and tolerance allowed me to accept that liberals were still virtuous people, that rally and your present attack on parenting only supports my complete lack of respect for the liberal mindset.
Let me be clear, the Tea Party was good and the speakers respectable. It was the union thugs as we tried to leave that instigated the situation. Even then, the Tea Party participants left peacefully not lowering ourselves to the behavior of the liberals.
Lyle Ruble
1:04 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...Anyone who take their kids into a situation like those demonstration, no matter their political leanings, is not using the best judgement.
J. B. Schmidt
1:28 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Of course your right. I take full responsibility for the childish actions of the liberal left.
Just curious though, is your attack on my parenting the proper way to "dial down passion and rhetoric"? I thought maybe that meant getting back to the issues within politics, not the same old personal attacks liberals have made famous.
There I go again keeping an open mind to the idea of liberal virtue.
Lyle Ruble
2:10 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt.... Some things aren't right including what occurred in Madison. However, when you used your experience as anecdotal evidence to make the point defining your point, it is my contention that both sides need to clean it up and dial it down.
10:29 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Also notice that Mr. "I talk to the White House everyday" Trumpka is in the photo for this organization that awarded Voces de la Frontera. Obama agenda at play? I think so.
10:38 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Here is one of the people egging on the Alinsky style tactics:
FRANCES FOX PIVEN: "I teach at the Graduate School of the City University of New York. I am here because I am so enthusiastic about the possibilities of this sit-in, over the marches that are occurring over postal worker issues, the sister demonstrations that are starting in Chicago and Los Angeles, and maybe in Boston. I think we desperately need a popular uprising in the United States. None of us know. I study movements. None of us know the exact formula for when those movements erupt, but it could be. And if that is true, then these people who are here are really wonderful. I would do anything to help them." (TV Show: "Democracy Now!")
Who will denounce this? Cory Mason with his union endorsed fist t-shirt? John Lehman who said he would have run to IL, too? Doubtful.
The people have spoken that they do not support these antics, so will the Democrat Party keep on it's progressive course that is being rejected by the majority of the public?
And progressive Republicans, we're watching you too.
10:45 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Also, notice how the left is complaining about money on our side, but not theirs. Like this for instance:
"Imagine that, a whole university funded by one of the most controversial figures in the world. Soros has used that $400 million worldwide to indoctrinate students and teach them to promote liberal, and in some cases extremist, causes. But don't expect the American news media to make it a big issue, even though they have done so for the Koch brothers."
"The Koch brothers were vilified by the American political left for donating almost $7 million to universities while their beloved Soros gave more than 50 times that amount to the same type of groups."
11:13 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
I don't see it happening anytime soon, Lyle. Not as long as your side is represented at the top by the likes of Zielinski, Tate, Miller and Barca; all regular practitioners of the impertinent remark. They still fail to acknowledge the reason they lost, continue to point fingers, and endorse this vitrioll. I've been wondering for a long time when an adult on the left would step up and condemn this nonsense. Like his policies or not, Walker is a statesman and a leader who is changing the country. Where is there a similar statesman on the left? Certainly not the President, who is a master practitioner of divide and conquer. But thanks for your effort anyway, although neither of us have a very big megaphone.
James R Hoffa
2:34 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Precisely - the membership/supporters won't begin to tone things down until their leaders do.
In the face of death threats to himself and his family, constantly being shouted down and interrupted at public speeches, etc - Walker has maintained his cool throughout and has been nothing but an exemplary statesman in his reaction to all of the antics. He has proven himself to be of very high class, character, and integrity and deserves the respect of Wisconsin residents whether they agree with his policies or not.
11:38 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle, there are -- how shall I put this -- low-intelligence, low-self control personalities on both sides. Never was it so evident to me since i began coming to the Patch and observing the tenor of both sides. I condemn death threats -- they are stupid and counterproductive. But I refuse to be painted with that brush as long as some of the gentlemen on the other side turn a blind eye to the name-calling, personal insults, and second amendment remedy talk of the worst offenders here on Patch. I won't mention any names, but you all know who you are.
J. B. Schmidt
12:39 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Many of us on the Right have called out people for insults and name calling. However, I don't believe I read a post calling out Jason when he wrote a blog associating Walker supports to sex acts or his dog pooping on a Walker sign. Your entire statement is full of hypocrisy.
1:37 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@J.B. -- As long as you tolerate the AWDs and the Alfreds of this site you may not call me a hypocrite.
J. B. Schmidt
2:08 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Over time I and others have called out both. I refuse to address every comment they make. There comes a point where it is better to ignore, then give them the pleasure of being recognized.
Yet, I have never seen a lib call out Jason. Why? In fact most defend him and congratulate him for blogging as he does.
James R Hoffa
2:46 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
AWD - really??? Who doesn't love that guy!?!?
I've called out bad behavior on both the right and left, including Alfred (again most recently in fact). And everyone knows how I feel about AWD/AudiFan/SaxonRealm, but I've even called them out when they either cross the line or go over-the-top.
In addition to calling out the bad apples, I've also defended the good apples from unnecessary and undue personal attacks against their character, such as HRG, Lyle, Randy1949, etc all know.
Being a good and decent person has nothing do with being right or left. It's just a part of our core as humans. And there are many good and decent people in our Patch community on both sides of political aisle, and a few bad apples as well. But how we judge the integrity of a person should have nothing to do with their political affiliation/ideology, but rather by their character and virtuosity as human beings.
3:02 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
True, JRH. You are one of the few who will do that. I just hope the rest of you understand how difficult it is to remain civil in the face of what amounts to schoolyard taunts.
Eugene Kane did a piece on the day of the election about gloating and how anyone who did it the morning after, no matter who won, would make things worse. Just saying.
This was a close election. Neither side got ground into the dust, and neither side should be encouraged to eat crow here on the Patch.
I'm grieved that there were death threats. I'm shocked and embarrassed that someone slapped Mayor Barrett the night he conceded. That's how high emotions were running, and it needs to stop.
Sam Vedder
4:17 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Eugene Kane? Really? You're going to site Eugene Kane and expect to be taken seriously? The only reason he wrote that article is because he knew his guy was going to lose. Eugene Kane... PLEASE!
4:22 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Sam Vedder -- so you disagree that it's a good idea to just let the 'hurrah for our side' rhetoric drop?
4:31 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Randy: Kane is perhaps the worst writer for the Milwaukee Unrinal.
You have not commented about my picture here on the left. Is this taunting?
I left the sign up for less than 24 hours- I had people standing on my lawn taking pictures, some posing next to it. I never thought I would have to worry about taunting people into violent acts. Maybe it is good I removed it when I did, but I did so out of respect to the houses for sale across the street. I didn't want the prospective new neighbors to think I am a Republican Redneck. At least not until they meet me, then they are free to form an opinion.
4:40 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Craig -- I can't read your sign. It's probably just as well. I might take your opinion of Eugene Kane a little more seriously if you could spell 'urinal'.
Gloating, mocking, insisting your defeated opponent eat crow are all divisive, and I can see it won't be ending soon.
Sam Vedder
5:04 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Give us through the weekend. This was an historic win. Unions will no longer be able to take money by force from members, hire hundreds of political operatives and give them salaries to work on campaigns, then call them "volunteers" so their work isn't reported as a campaign contribution. We the taxpayers have taken back our state, and soon our country. We have fixed a 50 year old mistake when public unions were given collective bargaining privileges. I think it's appropriate we celebrate for a few more days.
7:29 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Randy: Ohhhh, a typo. I am so ashamed. Guess I don't have piano fingers.
Maybe I will put my sign back up and add a plug for voter ID to it.
FYI: I am not sure if you know how to work 'puters, but if you click on the picture you can expand it. They even make big pc screens for the legally blind ;)
12:02 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle: You are a good man to stand up and speak about this. I fear that it is falling on deaf ears.
There are people who will never be happy regardless, they will continue to act out just for the sake of acting out.
90% of us on both sides of the aisle feel it is now over and we should move on. But the 10% will continue which will further divide us all. I can tell you that for me personally, when I see out of controll 'protesting', it makes me move further to the right. This became very evident to me during the occupy Madison event, when protesters were sleeping in the Capital. Yet the homeless still had to find an alley to sleep. The double standard pissed me off, and it affected how I treated other people of differing opinion. You pointed out how I was being obtuse using a term that offended you, remember? I never intended to offend people of your heritage, it just happened because of a paradigm shift in what became common behavior. I hope that I proved I am not a complete piss-ant by keeping my word to refrain from using the 'term'.
I don't think I am very different than the rest of us. I think we all have said or done some things that were not typical behavior because of the elevated emotions.
My honest opinion is this: The protesting will go on. People are looking for anything to set them off, they want to demonstrate, they want to be angry. If we take the anger away, they will find another reason to be angry.
James R Hoffa
2:48 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Yes, Lyle is most definitely a good man of sound character and has earned the respect of the Patch community. I look forward to meeting him one day in persona as someone that I've come to consider as a friend.
5:43 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Bren - What have YOU lost? Stabilization will only come when the left finally concedes that individual liberty and self-determination makes us ALL more secure than any government-provided, collectivist "security." Collectivism will inevitably devolve into tyranny...as any true student of history knows--largely because of human nature. Collectivism ALWAYS degenerates into a government where a group, considering themselves to be smarter than everyone else, and possessing the power to do so, will start exercising that power by dictating what we eat and drink, what sort of light bulbs we can buy for our homes or how much water we are permitted to use in our flush toilets. (Sound familiar.)
8:37 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Pappadave, since you (apparently) believe that allowing yourself to be fooled by Big Money is a strike for freedom, we really have no point of reference for discussion.
2:08 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Most of us live one or two degrees right or left of center. The political and emotional violence of the Scott Walker/ALEC agenda has traumatized many people, especially (I imagine) those whose wellbeing depends on having a job or access to care that Walker has cut. Stabilization is not going to occur under this governor.
2:46 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
What makes you think your prediction skills have improved since your prediction that the latest Marquette poll would be wrong because of it's bias? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Your problem is, your time hasn't arrived.
James R Hoffa
2:56 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Bren -
I honestly expected better from you - especially on such a topic as this!
This is exactly the kind of over the top propaganda and rhetoric that has created the current environment which has led to en mass death threats being made against our Governor.
Scott Walker has not been emotionally violent towards anyone and you know it! That's more than I can say for the people that have followed his every move and do nothing but emanate and espouse hate for the man.
If stabilization doesn't occur, it will not be the fault of the Governor, but rather individuals with such mindsets as the one you're now advocating.
Again, I honestly expected better from you on this topic.
@Lyle -
I believe this to be a perfect example of what McBride was trying to say above, and I tried to clarify.
Steve ®
3:04 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Marquette poll was spot on correct, 7% bought and paid for by ALEC i'm sure.
3:56 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Well, we will see what happens. Based on what I know, is Scott Walker the one to throw off the ALEC agenda, meet with the groups that he has hurt with his policies, develop humility and an honest desire to serve his state? Sorry, can't write the answer to that one without laughing out loud.
Ben Hogan
4:19 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Bren looks like it is time to pack up your bongos and head out of state
6:34 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Figuratively I die, slashed to ribbons, my final narrative breath gasped in grudging admiration of Ben Hogan's rapier wit.
8:40 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Well Mr. Hoffa, I think you love ALEC more. We'll find out how much ALEC loves you.
8:47 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
No matter how much Hoffa and ALEC love each other, their love can never be. Not in this state. :P
James R Hoffa
9:10 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Come on Bren, don't be like that!
As Randy1949 and Lt. Governor Kleefisch have made clear, I could never be with ALEC in this state no matter how much I love it, just as I could never be with a table.
Now, Ms. Hendricks, well, that's another story and she's almost like ALEC, right? ;-)
Cheer up Bren, it's not the end of the world. You still have November to look forward to! And despite what you may think, I do like you and always have. We both want the same thing - we just disagree as to how to accomplish those objectives.
2:56 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
AWD: Hunger drives people to do desperate measures. If there was a total collapse, neighbors in the burbs would be killing eachother to feed their kids. The castle law would do nothing for a family who was armed and protecting their home when a gang burns it down because they can't get inside to steal the food.
I know it sounds like a late night TV show, but parents will do anything to avoid watching their child starve. I doubt it would come down to race in this situation, it would be the 'haves' vs the 'have nots', and he who is better armed will last longer.
Chris Larsen
3:24 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@ Lyle,
My respect level for you grew today. There are calm voices on both sides, and then there are the nuts. I'm ignoring the nuts and discussing with the calm voices.
Lyle Ruble
4:28 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
We are at a point where we have to leave the past behind us and move on. We have major policy discussions coming and also a national election. Hopefully we will be able to put limits on the rhetoric when it becomes out of hand. That will take all of us calling BS when someone steps over the line, whether it is a blog or comments on a thread. By the time the election is finished, we should have a pretty good idea what the next couple of years will be like. I see the right as wanting to address a new mining bill, right to work, a state wide education voucher system and phasing out public schools in certain areas, and privatizing much of government services. All of which will be heavily discussed and fought over.
Kevin Presser
4:37 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Lyle, I applaud you for your words today. If only the leaders on the recall side practiced the same type of personal responsibility you just did. Perhaps I should say both sides. Someone blaming their actions on Scott Walker is wrong,unless he pulled out a gun (an actual gun, not a metaphorical one) and made you demonstrate. I don't think that happened. Everyone who demonstrated recklessly, who disrespected others, who boycotted businesses did this on their own, and to blame it on Scott Walker is just plain wrong. Lyle took responsibility for his own actions and condemned those who made death threats. Thank you Lyle. Holding him responsible for what others did or say who fall in Lyle's camp is also just plain wrong.
Greendale Dad
5:09 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle, thanks for this. I think the rhetoric will go down soon. We're seeing a lot of people who spent the last months getting harassed by Walker supporters, flipped off by Walker supporters, cursed at (in front of my 5 year old daughter none the less!) by Walker supporters, attempted to be driven over by Walker supporters, yelled at by Walker supporters, etc. for having the gall to exercise a state constitutional right. And while the behaviour you reference, Lyle, is unacceptable, hopefully their well-paid-for victory will allow those Walker supporters the strength to resist the urge to key-gouge cars that have recall bumper stickers on. And that will probably go a long way towards dialing down all the rhetoric.
8:47 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Great job at dialing it down. Just be honest, you don't want it dialed down.
Brian Dey
10:47 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Greendale Dad- What planet are you on? What will allow civility is when you simply accept defeat. Your side lost. The recall was a joke to begin with. It's funny that most of the violence came from the lefties. Intimidation tactics, burning signs, death threats, boycotts, assault, vandalism, destruction of property. The list is a long one and the bottomline is that none of it worked.
That Walker won by a bigger margin, despite the national effort to oust him speaks volumes. Your side put only yourselves first, not the good of all, including our children and the good people of Wisconsin sent a clear message. Crystal.
12:05 pm on Sunday, June 10, 2012
I live in Shorewood and am one of the very few conservatives that live here. I put up an I stand by Walker signed and was continually harrassed, flipped off, cursed at (in front of my elderly dad that served in WW2). Literally fearing that my tires may be slashed or lawn ornaments stolen I took it down in less than 3 days. Greendale Dad - don't call the kettle black please.
6:08 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Lyle seem polite enough but I should remind him that conservatives have been trying to "get along" with progressives for 100 years and look what it's gotten us. Half the people in the country paying no income taxes and (probably the same half) drawing some sort of "government check." Unemployment the highest it's been since the Great Depression in terms of the number of people out of work. (Don't believe that 8.2% nonsense. It doesn't even COUNT those who've simply given up looking and withdrawn from the workforce.) Home repossessions at record levels because government REQUIRED banks to finance houses they knew the buyers couldn't afford--which affects the entire market. Two, expensive wars that our government is deciding were "draws" because we refused to fight them logically until the enemy surrenders...which is how ALL wars should be fought--or never entered into at all in the first place. Unimaginable debt that our GREAT GREAT GRANDCHILDREN won't be able to pay off in THEIR lifetimes. Everyone with a job paying virtually HALF of what the earn in some form of tax to support the half that, for whatever reason, can't or won't work. And now we have a MAYOR, of all things, trying to dictate how much sugar citizens and visitors to his city are allowed to consume because HE thinks sugar is "bad" for you.
Lyle Ruble
8:21 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@pappadave....Everyone can come up with a laundry list of discontents. It has been a constant conflict between those who feel that the sovereignty of the individual is primary and those that feel that the sovereignty of the community is primary. Both groups agree in the goal to provide a stable, prosperous and nurturing society. What people disagree upon is the best means to achieve the goal.
Those supporting individual sovereignty are focused on the exercise of individual freedoms even at the expense of others. Supporters of communal sovereignty are focused on the benefits to the whole even at the expense to some individual freedoms. Individual sovereignty was a good approach whereas you have a relatively small population. However, in larger populations it requires social contracts to support the benefit to the whole.
You seem to want to hold the left responsible for everything negative that has occurred, while exempting the right from any responsibility. I think, you will find that if you dig enough you'd find that what is behind all of this mess is the plutocratic oligarchy. Their goal is to maintain their wealth, position and power; the rest of us are nothing more than simple pawns. As long as we are fighting between ourselves, nothing will ever challenge them and their manipulations.
Lyle Ruble
10:51 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
@Brian Dey...You must not be very familiar with Marx or the Communist Manifesto.
Brian Dey
11:03 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Very familiar. Maximizing power under the guise of the common good. Government can not make blanket decisions that benefits all society. This country was founded on individual freedom, not collective. That is not selfish; quite contrare. Government can provide a temporary safety net, but we have too many that have turned that satety net into a way of life.
Sorry, I have seen people milk the system. The democratic/progreesive/socialist agenda plays on peoples fears, perpetuates reliance on Government to gain power. Much like the communist Manifesto. We all saw how that played out and the collapse of that belief. The only ones that remain are ones where government forceably controls its populous. And if they don't, the are on the verge of financial collapse.
Take your beloved unions for example. Why are unions afraid of giving workers the freedom to choose whether to be in a union or not. Its about control, and the fear that if given the choice, many have opted out of their union. And organization that will throw others under the bus to protect themselves is not for the common good.
Bob McBride
6:27 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
I think, you will find that if you dig enough you'd find that what is behind all of this mess is the plutocratic oligarchy. Their goal is to maintain their wealth, position and power; the rest of us are nothing more than simple pawns.
Lyle, I wonder if you include within your group of plutocratic oligarchs those within the DNC who utilized the situation here in WI in their very successful May fundraising effort and then who elected to shortchange the DPW when it came to supporting the effort in the same fashion as did its opponents? Certainly their goals are the same and their usage of those in the recall effort here as their pawns are no different.
While I think you're a lot more open minded than many on your side of the political fence, in order for any of what you're saying to be taken to heart (to the degree to which that's possible), it needs to be acknowledged that, regardless of what you want to call it, the politicians on both sides use the little guy to attain wealth, position and power. And, while the methodology might be a bit different, I'm not convinced this is anything new.
I've called out the tea party in the past for some of their rhetoric, but never has anything they've done risen to the levels we've seen here in this state from the left. It's not good when either side does it, but to deny the left has embraced it rather wholeheartedly in this state is to deny reality.
Lyle Ruble
6:43 am on Friday, June 8, 2012
@Bob McBride...Of course the DNC is part of and controlled by the plutocratic oligarchy. I lobbied in Washington long enough to learn the rules of the political game.
If you remember correctly I stated that it was a mistake for the Occupy Movement and the 99% to align themselves with the Democrats. The Democrats attempted to subvert the movement for their own purposes just as the Republicans subverted the Tea Party Movement.
The longer the power brokers can keep us divided, the easier it is to control us for the purpose of their agenda and maintain their power. The money dumped into this recall election by both sides is absolutely grotesque, let alone the $16 million the government has spent to hold the election. Until enough citizens become aware of the situation, we will continue to give up our constitutional power to the plutocrats. The enemy is not the left or right, the enemy is the plutocratic oligarchy.
6:18 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
(Cont'd) Plus, we have a whole government department with over 100 employees, who are presumably spending an 8-hour day, 5 days a week, at princely salaries and "bennies" trying to decide how much SALT we all should consume...and if you cut out ALL salt from your diet, you die! We've come to this sad state of affairs because progressives seem to think that everyone who doesn't think like they do is a blithering idiot in need of "guidance" or even discipline to make them behave, at least, as progressives think they should. Conservatives were successful at thwarting SOME of what these idiots want but there simply IS no "compromise" with them--mostly because to the left, "compromise" means "Do it OUR way or take a hike!" Thus it has ALWAYS been and while most people were distracted by "Lost" or "Survivor" or "Dances with the Stars" or wondering who'll be the next "American Idol" the left has snuck a lot of this craziness right past them.
Joana Briggs
8:35 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
May I call your attention to Alinsky's rule #7 "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Name calling is dragging all sides down. Let us try another tactic. Perhaps "love thy enemy".
Dave Ruske
11:43 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012
Millions of dollars have been spent on negative campaign ads on both sides, packed with emotional imagery to energize the electorate through fear and anger. It'll take a while for all that bitterness to fade, and for people to realize that Walker is neither saint nor evil incarnate; same goes for Barrett. It's unfortunate we're coming up on a presidential election that will pour fresh poison into Wisconsin, and many will lap it up all over again, believing the lies they find most appealing.
We can do better.
I'm pretty new to Patch, but really, Lyle wrote a reasonable blog post here suggesting that it's time to be civil with one another, and that death threats are not only inappropriate, but deserve to be prosecuted. Liberal, conservative, or moderate, isn't that something we can all get behind?
6:29 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
WEAC still has inflammitory photos posted. WEAC members want to be thought of as professionals. I have never seen any other professional organzation's page that would allow the type of divisive photos on the WEAC Facebook page. They are very partisan images that have captions such as "GOP kinda rhymes with KGB", images of Scott Walker as a puppet to Koch, a picture of Scott Walker as the grinch, pictures of Republicans that say Koch-suckers...and on and on.
Do you think the realtor's association, for example, would allow such images on their member site?
Until WEAC and others decide to act in an adult and civil manner and show that they are willing to clean themselves up, I have no intention on negotiating on anything. My kids attend a public school. How welcome are we to feel if this is what we think the teachers think of those of us that hold conservative values? I have some conservative friends who work in public schools, so I kind of know how the liberal teachers feel. I also know it when I volunteer in a classroom and a 2nd grade student tells me that his whole family booed Scott Walker. Lovely.
What I would expect is that if most teachers do not accept the photos on WEAC's page, is that they would speak up and say that those photos do not represent them well.
lolo peeg
11:18 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
I agree . WEAC is THE problem. The demonstrations of 2011 at the Capitol showed us the true face of compassionate liberalism--Gov. Walker in crosshairs and likened to Hitler, etc. etc. I never saw the political right respond in kind. Au contraire, our Governor was the model of decorum and decency.
oak creek resident
11:21 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
"We on the left" - you ARE the problem, Lyle.
The left is unable to see an issue with any sort of logic. Hate, ignorance, and rhetoric have always been a staple of the left.
When Bush was president, liberals marched with signs saying "KILL BUSH", with pictures of Bush dead, hanged, or even decapitated.
If this were done to Obama, the left would whine and cry and call the right racist, hateful, etc. We all know it is the left that is full of blind hate and ignorance.
And for that, --I-- hate you.
Lyle Ruble
11:58 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@oak creek resident...How is it possible to hate someone you have never met or don't know? Although you and I differ in our political orientation, I don't see that as necessary or sufficient to evoke hate for you. I think it is perfectly logical for reasonable people to disagree. None of us are always correct nor always wrong. Only through open and honest dialogue can we find the best solution. I reject the notion that everything has to be a win/lose or a lose/lose; what is wrong with a win/win?
3:53 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Oak creek, you accuse liberals of illogical behavior, blind hate, ignorance, and violent poster art. Then you tell Mr. Ruble, "I hate you." Think about this. Is this logic? Is this peace?
You are ramped up, "us vs. them," "divide and conquer." What was your own story, not "as seen on TV" that led you to believe these things about liberals? Liberals, who in the past were called treehuggers, moonbats, etc. You do not have to respond to my post.
oak creek resident
11:23 am on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Lyle, oh learned one.
If you claim to know that the plutocratic oligarchy is purposely separating us peons into two warring camps, why do you knowingly carry the banner of one side, hence enabling it???
Lyle Ruble
12:04 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@oak creek resident....Whose banner am I carrying? I reject the plutocrats and oligarchs for what they are. It is only logical on my part to reject the policy and direction of an agent of the plutocrats. Why should I support someone who is clearly working on the behalf of those who want to take from the middle and working classes for the benefit of increasing their own wealth, power and position. That's not logical or wise. Again, show me the plutocratic banner that I am supporting.
Brian Dey
2:49 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
So then Lyle, are you saying you reject unions as well. I mean really, considering that the only reason they exist is to exert political power for personal gain. And they are not exclusive to which class they take from; be it poor, middle or upper.
Lyle Ruble
3:16 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Brian Dey...Are you suggesting that unions are plutocrats or agents of plutocrats? If that is what you're purposing, then I suggest that you look up the definition of plutocrat and oligarch. Labor is the counterbalance to the plutocracy representing the many over the few.
Now, whether labor is represented by unions or someone else, is another matter altogether. Your opinion is that since some unions are corrupt, then all unions are corrupt, clearly a logical fallacy.
3:37 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
All unions being grouped is a logical fallacy, but all plutocrats and oligarchs being grouped is not?
4:00 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
The division isn't right v. left. It's apolitical, money vs. not so much money, some money, and no money. If the Big Money strategists can get us fighting amongst ourselves, we'll be too engaged to realize the level of maneuvering that is going on. What Scott Walker described as "our Divide and Conquer strategy." And except for a small population of news junkies, it's working. Exhibit A: Wisconsin Governor recall election.
The Occupy movement, also apolitical (protesting against Republicans and Democrats), protest against Big Money. That's why Big Money organized a multi-state strategy to squash Occupy like bugs. They quickly found that every time they squashed, more "bugs" showed up. Now they are in "Ignore" mode, no mainstream media coverage.
These "1%'rs" take their money very seriously.
4:18 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
It is a heck of a lot more than "Big Money" that hates the occupy movement. Most people want nothing to do with them and really do not want to be included in their 99%.
Brian Dey
5:11 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Contrate Lyle; oh contrare. I'm not at all referring to corruption as my basis. Unionism is in its purist form, an oligarchy. The union society, run by a few, espouse to influence the government. The heirarchy of the union, rules its members by granting it favorable rules to remain in power. While claiming they represent the masses for the betterment of their union society, their representation is a forced membership collecting dues to wield power of the political process, for which their members usually have no individual voice.
You see Lyle, and for that matter Bren, the very instituition you despise in the corporate world, are in essence the same ideals the union leadership's have evolved to.
To claim that labor is the counter-balance is contradictory when in fact, the same structures exist in the unions.
7:39 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Greg, the people who don't support Occupy are the ones who listened to the corporate-owned media and didn't spend many hours studying live feeds of protests, General Assembly meetings, etc., as I did. Once I encounter something I cannot rest until I have learned as much about it as I can. Obnoxious, isn't it. I and others blame my well-rounded education (which included music, fine art, and literature) for my implacably curious mind. ; )
Brian Dey, my father (a private union retiree) tells me that they could earmark a portion of salary to the union to make donations. He was proud to join his union when he completed his studies because contract employers knew that he and his colleagues were the most qualified and skilled available in the area. He could take classes and advance in his field through the union. Part of his union dues also went toward health insurance benefits and pension, which helps greatly in his retirement.
When one regards medieval examples of stained glass in some of the great cathedrals of Europe, the guilds (predecessors of unions) are represented in some of the panels. Even then, a union/guild meant quality of craftsmanship and brotherhood. Perhaps this is an outmoded idea, but I believe in quality.
I'm not sure what you are referring to ("institution you despise in the corporate world") but I'm all for capitalism--as long as it doesn't hurt other people.
Brian Dey
7:52 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Bren- Yes, those are outdated ideas because that is not what public sector unions do now. Most public sector union members have no idea where their dues are going in regards to political activity, and all don't have a choice of opting out. Further, union dues in the public sector do not fund their pensions or health care. We, the taxpayers do.
The unions have evolved into something my father, a former national leader of the Steelworkers union in 50's thru 70's, finds disgusting. Unions have been a means to protect poor employees, not advance better employees. They have become the number one political arm of the Democrat Party. And the Democratis Party numbers far more millionaire and billionaire donors than the Republicans.
Your father's memories of his days in the union and the benefits received were of better days of the labor movement. Sadly, today 's unions are not the unions of your father's time.
Lyle Ruble
8:10 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Brian Dey...Who are the unions ruling? To be an oligarch you have to have the wealth and power to rule. That certainly doesn't describe the unions. At there strongest in the mid 1950s they only represented 50% of labor and by today they private unions only represent somewhere around 7% of the private work force. When you include public employee unions, it jumps to a whopping 13.6%. So where's the power and the oligarchy? Remember union leadership is elected and not appointed.
Unions lost most of their in 1947 with the enactment of the Taft-Hartley Act. They were prohibited from most job actions including, wildcat strikes, solidarity strikes, etc. The only action possible was strikes after contract termination and the support of political candidates.
For your information, it is illegal for union dues to be used to support candidates. My wife has been with AFSCME for nearly 16 years and for all of that time, if she wanted to contribute politically through the union, she had to contribute to the union PAC.
You just don't have a clue and most of your opinions are based on suppositions and inaccurate beliefs.
Brian Dey
9:04 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Lyle- Tell that to the National Education Association:
"93 percent of donations made by National Education Association political action committees and individual officers went to Democrats, according to OpenSecrets.org. According to the NEA's own "Status of the American Public School Teacher 2005-2006," (latest available data produced March 2010) only 41 percent of public school teachers are Democrats. A Wall Street Journal editorial revealed that the National Education Association — the nation's largest teachers union — "is spending the mandatory dues paid by members who are told their money will be used to gain better wages, benefits and working conditions. According to the latest filing, member dues accounted for $295 million of the NEA's $341 million in total receipts last year. But the union spent $25 million of that on 'political activities and lobbying' and another $65.5 million on 'contributions, gifts and grants' that seemed designed to further those hyper-liberal political goals."
It is not illegal so you should check your facts. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_67.htm. So before you ponificate to me, please read a little further than the Daily Kos.
Lyle Ruble
9:52 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Brian Dey...I can't justify the NEA using union dues to support political campaigns. It is just wrong. Thanks for the information.
Brian Dey
5:38 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Bren- You have a very interesting way of turning everything into a conspiracy. Is it that hard to figure out that the majority of the state wanted these policy changes and didn't need anybody to tell us they made sense? So much, that we elected him again and more came aboard.
7:23 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
A conspiracy is clandestine, is it not? There's nothing clandestine about it. Special interest groups backed by big money have been working toward business-friendly legislation for decades. It has reached a global stage and the opportunities to make even bigger money have increased exponentially. It's all out there for people who take time to read newspapers, newsmagazines and programs, etc.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It simply means you are underinformed. Study up! ; )
Brian Dey
7:42 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Are unions not special interest groups? Have they not been lobbying for more friendly legislation, pouring millions into politicians and ideas that favor their cause? Hasn't their cause gone global? It's all out there for you to read Bren.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it hasn't existed. It simply means you are uniformed. Study up ;p
12:20 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Here is some studying for you, Bren:
"Andy Stern's (one of Obama's favorite White House visitors) Service Employees Union has established a worldwide network of security-guard unions as the first of what the union hopes will be a series of organizing campaigns for workers in a variety of occupations here and abroad.
Former labor leader and U.S. Under Secretary of Labor Jack Henning eloquently explained why such steps are urgent and essential:
"We were never meant to be beggars at the table of wealth. We were never meant to be the lieutenants of capitalism. We were never meant to be the pall bearers of the workers of the world. Global unionism is the answer to global capitalism. There is no other answer."
Mike in OC
7:04 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
I was inspired a bit reading the headline but then read the article.... nice subtle jabs.... I too had hoped the rhetoric would subside but seeing the protestors at the Brats n Beer Summit I realized nothing will ever change with the Left until they grow up.
Lyle Ruble
8:15 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Brain Dey...I don't believe you know to play nice. You're position and attitude is only going to make things worse.
I understand your position and support of those who pay your bills and are critical to your livelihood. You are dependent on wealthy people, companies and the government contracts for your business. You know what side your bread is buttered on.
Brian Dey
9:08 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
Really Lyle? We've played nice with the lefties as they led us down a path to socialism. I believe if you win two elections in one term, it would be considered a mandate. It is time to finish the job started. I hope the Dems get a clue that at least in Wisconsin, the Socialist Agenda is dead.
And really Lyle, talk about suppostion when you presume to know my client base.
Brian Dey
7:21 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
I don't believe this is the time to play nice. Compromising with bad ideas are still bad ideas. The thugs are never going to stop so why should we? Walker has started down the right path and we need to step it up and win the Senate in November, as well as the White House. Liberalism is the bad idea, and we have a chance to finish it off once and for all.
It amazes me how the lefty politicians only want to talk compromise when they are out of power.
Lyle Ruble
9:57 pm on Tuesday, June 12, 2012
@Brian Dey...Liberals won't go away no matter how hard you try. As you are aware, these things are cyclic in nature and swing back and forth like a pendulum. The dichotomy is necessary to keep each side honest.
Brian Dey
7:46 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Public opinion is swaying right of center. Even former President Bill Clinton have moved right of center on fiscal policies. More and more are figuring out that all these social programs and benefits cost us dearly and have created fiscal nightmares.
Yes, I do think the ultra-liberal movement is dying and a lot of it is self-inflicted. Demonstrations such as the ones in Madison and the Occupy movement have exposed an idealogoy that the general masses don't agree with. Extremism by either side does not play well to the middle. But the right is in a center-right movement, not an extreme as some have suggested. The policies put forth by Walker and others is common sense and that is why since 2010, conservatives are winning elections.
lolo peeg
11:05 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
I agree with Brian and Lyle. Liberalism will never die (because there are lots of lazy people that would rather stick their hands out than work for a living), nor will conservatives (because many will want to work hard, get ahead, and live better). Conservatives need to be continually vigilant, because there will always be lazy people who try to appropriate what the wealthy have earned.
Money Bagger
5:32 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Only is Wisconsin!
Can Billionaires convince Voters they make too little,
And Teachers make too much!
Bob McBride
6:52 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Perfect example of how to dial down the passion and rhetoric. You must be chunky style.
Brian Dey
7:48 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Not just Wisconsin Skippy! You are seeing a national move to austerity measures.
Bob McBride
10:53 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Meanwhile, on the national front (Nick still around here? I'd enjoy hearing him explain this one away....)
I guess it all depends on whose billionaires are doing the convincing. Make sure you get out the vote for this guy in November in order to defeat the evil billionaires, Skippy.
J. B. Schmidt
10:59 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Billionaires convince me that I am not rich enough and that if I try hard enough I to can have their money and power. MUWHAHAHA
Steve ®
11:10 am on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Only in Wisconsin!
Did we take care of our budget deficit
and save public workers jobs
12:38 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Only in America
Can Obama donors convince voters, including the middle class, that they need to pay more for their energy
...while they get rich AND land high ranking positions
"Several of Barack Obama's top campaign supporters went from soliciting political contributions to working from within the Energy Department as it showered billions in taxpayer-backed stimulus money on alternative energy firms, ABC News and iWatch News have learned"
lolo peeg
10:56 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
The difference is this: Taxpayers pay the salaries and benefits of the government sector employees, whereas (most) billionaires made their money on their own.
Brian Carlson
5:41 pm on Wednesday, June 13, 2012
Reading this thread its obvious to me that the issue preventing any sort of collaboration in our state is fundamentalism, not the specific beliefs of either "side." The take that the OTHER is always wrong, the stereotyping and monolithic thinking behind saying liberals think this or Republicans do that.... the ignorance of assuming one's own perspective is accurate, all encompassing and that whoever doesn't agree with it is misinformed, deluded, or even your enemy.... these things... are what hold us back. My god one guy here wants to warn the other side that they will be attacked by conservative deer hunters who are very skilled with their weapons.... lunacy. But there are less extreme statements that come from the same sort of narrow mindedness and even desire for a fight.
lolo peeg
10:51 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
I agree with Lyle, amazingly enough. My only comment is that it is worth keeping in mind that the death threats and innuendos, and the raunchy comments about Lt. Gov. Kleefisch and female GOP senators, started February 2011, and I can't recall that Republicans ever responded in kind. Its dangerous to generalize, but I think conservatives are better at decorum and behaving themselves. Bad behavior almost seems endemic among some lefties. Lyle is a voice of sanity, but he will be drowned out by the radicals in his party


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The area is safe. The Hostalet is very conveniently located to the sea and cafes/restaurants (the next street). It is near the supermarkets and tourist office too. I could easily walk to Portligat and the bus station. The room and bathroom are very clean and big. The cleaning lady checked if I needed toilet paper even though I declined freshening... More
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My house feels like a home now.
i get by with a lil' help from my friends
My house feels like a home now.
25 comments:
- thetwistedruffle said...
i love that you had becky for help. your "new" place doesn't look like you just moved in!
and, i love your matching camera straps!
welcome back, i miss you when you're not blogging!!!! - March 5, 2012 at 11:08 AM
- Mary said...
this is seriously amazing!
your house looks like a H.O.M.E!
like a really homey home...already!
this whole post just makes my heart full.
i'm SO glad it all worked out so beautifully. :) - March 5, 2012 at 11:15 AM
- Cottage Mommy said...
I can't wait to see more of it, it looks gorgeous already! And your coats in that one photo? Oh my, lady, you two sure have the cutest ones around!
- March 5, 2012 at 11:24 AM
- katygirl said...
From that one picture, your new house looks more put together than my new one. My creativity is seriously lacking at this stage of pregnancy......
- March 5, 2012 at 11:28 AM
- Farmgirl Paints said...
memories...precious watercolored memories:) it was work, but so.much.fun! i'm glad we UNcanceled. we got to be the first ones in your new digs. YAY for us;) it definitely feels like home now. you needed that. love ya sista.
- March 5, 2012 at 11:38 AM
- jahorn12820 said...
I like the looks of your new place already! The floors are gorgeous! That picture of Sophie in the tub is too cute :)
- March 5, 2012 at 12:50 PM
- Smallgood said...
Your coats in the last picture of you two together are fantastic! I hope you bought them up (if you were just trying them on). How pretty!
- March 5, 2012 at 12:51 PM
- Mandy said...
first: i love your clothes!
second: what an amazing friend! i can honestly say i haven't had that in a while:(
third: your new home is beautiful! - March 5, 2012 at 1:24 PM
- Theresa said...
That is so sweet of Becky and her family!!! I just love the people I have met through blogging!
- March 5, 2012 at 1:38 PM
- Sabrina said...
You are a blessed girl to have such a wonderful friend! Your house already looks lived in & cozy! Whoo hoo! Please posts lots of pics when you are all settled. You have great decorating style!!!
- March 5, 2012 at 1:57 PM
- carissa at lowercase letters said...
um, that view of your new space is looking super pretty. is it weird that i am now giddy over the fact that not only you, but Becky also, has eaten at the Tupelo Honey?? because i just ate there last June. so glad moving went as well as it could! and that you have some sweet peeps helping you out!
- March 5, 2012 at 2:08 PM
- Randi~Dukes and Duchesses said...
What a blessing ... I love it! And I love the photo of you two with your cutesy camera strap covers!
- March 5, 2012 at 2:53 PM
- Jessie May said...
So good you had a fun, if hard working, weekend. It's great to have great friends. Enjoy your week : )
- March 5, 2012 at 2:54 PM
- Sarah said...
Welcome back, you were missed my friend! Can't wait to see the new place. Becky is just the bestest! :)
- March 5, 2012 at 3:35 PM
- Jennifer S. said...
Great pics! What a blessing to have such great friends! Can't wait to see pics of your new digs :)
- March 5, 2012 at 4:38 PM
- Elise said...
What awesome friends you have!!! Can't wait to see your new crib.
Elise - March 5, 2012 at 5:09 PM
- Stuff and Nonsense said...
what a way
to make moving again
a little less painful
and even fun
and the bestest thing about
hanging out with fellow bloggers?
they get the whole
alison - March 5, 2012 at 6:58 PM
- Biz said...
Such a blessing to have wonderful friends!
I can't wait to see your nest all done and ready for living in!
Biz - March 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM
- GLENDA CHILDERS said...
I remember the hours of fun/work with my friend, Anne, when we moved. So glad you had Becky!
Glenda - March 5, 2012 at 10:36 PM
- Blissful Blooms said...
AHHHHH! Love that Becky and her family made a crazy, hard working weekend fun! I love all your pics! I think I need to hire you two girls to come spiff up my place!
On a side note- you two are gorgeous and have beautiful families!!
Hope you're feeling more settled!! - March 6, 2012 at 12:22 AM
- The Frat Pack + Me said...
Y'all are so cute. You made moving look downright fun.
- March 6, 2012 at 10:32 AM
- Barbara said...
Two lucky girls!
- March 6, 2012 at 1:24 PM
- Handbags*N*Pigtails said...
I'm so dang excited that I found you through Becky's blog. I knew the minute I saw you on her post that I'd love your style. Cant wait to catch up on all I've been missing!
- March 6, 2012 at 7:29 PM
- Lemonade Makin' Mama said...
I love you BOTH to the moon and back. That Beckster... she'd be such a great next door neighbor! Well, really so would YOU... okay so how about we all move to the same street!! LOL
- March 6, 2012 at 10:49 PM
- Marissa said...
Wow, can you do it!! So awesome that you're getting settled already! Already looks wonderful!
- March 9, 2012 at 4:47 PM


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text: ARARAT — Mrs. Connie Jean Etnire Miller, 61, of 173 Badgett Road, Ararat, passed away early Wednesday morning, Dec. 26, 2012, at her home. Mrs. Miller was born Sept. 18, 1951, in Coles County, Ill., to the late Orpha Jean Cassady. Connie was a devoted and loving housewife. She is survived by her husband of 24 years, Charles Carlton Miller of the home; a daughter, Heather Lynn Scott of Ararat; and two sisters, Debbie Oakley and Diana Walker, both of Charleston, Ill. Moody Funeral Home in Mount Airy will be in charge of the cremation and arranging the burial to take place in Illinois. A memorial service will be held Saturday, Dec. 29, 2012, at 2 p.m. at The Sanctuary, located on Worth Street in Mount Airy, with Pastor Glenn Dulaney officiating. Online condolences may be made at www.moodyfuneralservices.com.


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David Wright happy to be staying with Mets
NASHVILLE, Tenn. — David Wright says he never considered leaving the New York Mets.
The star third baseman held a news conference Wednesday at the winter meetings to discuss his $138 million, eight-year contract, a deal finalized Tuesday.
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The fact that Israel has the only capital in the world that America refuses to recognize not only impugns our national integrity but telegraphs a suspicion that somehow the Jewish state is illegitimate. In fact, the two perceptions of America that emerge with every delay is that we are weak and indecisive and that it looks as if we're betraying the one true ally that we can always count on in that part of the world.
Is this any way to treat a proven friend, Mr. President? Israel is treated like a pestilence that disrupts the region's tranquility and burdens the West with its stubborn insistence on survival. Mr. Obama's recent treatment of Prime Minster Netanyahu was not only rude, but dismissive and offensive to Mr. Netanyahu.
What does all of this portend for the future? Nothing good for Israel, particularly when the buzz words from this administration are no, stop, don't, concede, wait and give. There is an apparent diplomatic paralysis in our government in dealing with Iran's mania to destroy Israel, as well as the United States. In addition, Mr. Obama's unrealistic, false appraisal of the anti-Israel. anti-America "Arab Spring" that masquerades as a push for democracy is suicidal. Can anyone believe that the recent rampage against our embassies in 27 locations and the murder of our Libyan ambassador and three Americans is not the result of the inept foreign policy of Mr. Obama?
How many times do terrorists have to tell us that their ultimate goal is our total destruction? We must start taking the threats against Israel and the United States seriously.
Strength, solidarity, moral integrity and determination are the only options our enemies will understand. This misguided, confused, weak and ineffective foreign policy of the president must be reset. America is still the last hope for freedom as we have known it and we must not let loyalty to a political party overrule our allegiance to our country. Citizens must take a stand and take back our leadership in the world. Time is running out for our nation and our future.


text:
Reviewing Linguistic Thought
Converging Trends for the 21st Century
Ed. by Marmaridou, Sophia / Nikiforidou, Kiki / Antonopoulou, Eleni
In coop. with Salamoura, Angeliki
Series:Trends in Linguistics. Studies and Monographs [TiLSM] 161
Table of Contents
- Frontmatter
- Introduction: Converging trends for 21st century linguistics: A theoretical background
- Part I: Relaxing level boundaries
- Putting the "same" meaning together from different pieces
- Motivation and convention in some speech act constructions: A cognitive linguistic approach
- Subjectivity in Spanish esperar-based constructions
- Part II: Focusing on level interaction
- Prolegomena to Default Semantics
- Expressivity as an option of tense-aspect in language: The case of Modern Greek imperfective past
- Focus: The interplay of phonology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics
- Part III: Drawing on different theories
- Greek tragedy as impolite conversation: Towards a practice approach in linguistic theory
- Pragmatic correlates of frequency of use: The case for a notion of "minimal context"
- Metaphor in Greek pain-constructions: Cognitive and functional perspectives
- Contrastive Linguistics: A 21st century perspective
- Part IV: Exploring field interaction
- The nature of language: Twentieth century approaches
- Micro- and macro-dimensions in linguistic systems
- Bilingualism as matchmaker: Towards a marriage of sociopragmatic and psycholinguistic research
- The social and psychological modalities of politeness
- Part V: Interdisciplinary perspectives on modularity
- New directions for research on pragmatics and modularity
- Hearsay devices and metarepresentation
- Subject Index
- Name Index
The social and psychological modalities of politeness
Kallia, Alexandra
Citation Information
Reviewing Linguistic Thought
Converging Trends for the 21st Century
Edited by Marmaridou, Sophia / Nikiforidou, Kiki / Antonopoulou, Eleni
Pages: 347-364
eBook ISBN: 9783110920826


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I hope he sticks with the Highlanders. I think he is a good fit there.
Posted 20:19 06th September 2012
Yeah he's 30 so may as well look for some decent cash and let Messam, Vito and the younger boys, Luatua, Shields etc have a crack. Awesome player though.
Posted 12:11 31st August 2012
this is the stupidest thing he can do! he was the second best blindside in the world not a year ago. he is essentially giving up on what he should become. how does he think messam got the number 6 jersey? worked his arse off. dissppointed in thommo to say the least
Posted 06:36 31st August 2012
This guy is a ball carrying cardiovascular freak! I'd put him at 8 so he could get his hands on the ball more often.
Posted 01:27 31st August 2012
he also carried the curse of being seen as a 'utility loose forward', played 6,7,8 and never fixed in any of those positions.
Posted 00:31 31st August 2012
Never quite reached the heights media and fans alike set for him.
Great player, penalty magnet.
Posted 22:57 30th August 2012
Agree with The Carp ! Good player but tended to get penalized a lot for the AB's.
Posted 18:23 30th August 2012
Good Luck, a good player and a nice bloke.
He must be one of the most frustrated players in NZ's history.
When he played openside flanker, he did exactly what McCaw always does, but he got caught every time, like in Durban last year.
He is still able to make a difference in the NH methinks.
Posted 14:02 30th August 2012
I'd love it if he could come to the Ospreys. Not very likely though...
Posted 12:47 30th August 2012
Bit unlucky really as finally Messam has had a run with the full top team and shown how good he is. Thompson has slipped down the pecking order so he may as well set the fishing lines out to see what he can catch.
Posted 12:34 30th August 2012
Kiwikev - 27 tests and started 16 of them. A lot have done worse. but at 30 why not head offshore, as he said not getting younger, after a lifetime of rugby nz schoolboy, u- 19, u-21, a good Super career.
A couple of years overseas - why not?
Posted 12:27 30th August 2012
Good Super Rugby player, who will contribute positively to any team in Europe or Japan.
Posted 12:25 30th August 2012
Agreed kiwikev, though I'd rate him as the best 'loose' blindside in his era. I think he has been utterly brilliant. But, loose seldom cuts it at test match level - the Kaino role is much more sought after and for good reason I guess.
But stunning player, years of amazing service to the Highlanders, deserves a killer contract.
Good luck to him
Posted 12:23 30th August 2012
Good move because he is not going to making the run on side....
Posted 11:04 30th August 2012
Fixture | Details |
All times are local | |
International Match | |
Saturday , June 8 | |
New Zealand vs France | 08:35 |
Saturday , June 15 | |
New Zealand vs France | 08:35 |
Saturday , June 22 | |
New Zealand vs France | 08:35 |
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2 | Australia | 6 | 12 |
3 | South Africa | 6 | 12 |
4 | Argentina | 6 | 4 |


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03-19-2012, 01:46 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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03-19-2012, 02:06 AM | #2 (permalink) | |
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008
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| Quote:
| |
03-19-2012, 03:05 AM | #4 (permalink) | |
Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany
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My Mood: | From March 1: Quote:
__________________ "V Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy." | |
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03-19-2012, 06:12 AM | #7 (permalink) | |
GAF *SLU Supporter*
Goth when goth was. Also,
socially unacceptable.
| Quote:
No. I think he's telling the truth. I think honestly that he has seen the face of the supporters of the GOP and is horrified by them. He had his moment of epiphany on national television four years ago. Before he ran for president, John McCain was someone you could disagree with, sure, but he wasn't BONKERS. He sold his soul to make that run for the presidency, and along the way I think he learned a lot of hard and awful lessons about is own party. | |
1 User Said Thanks: |
7 Users Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 06:22 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
GAF *SLU Supporter*
Goth when goth was. Also,
socially unacceptable.
| Quote:
Dont get me wrong. He's playing political chutes and ladders with the rest of them- he's definitely playing both sides against the middle. But his statement here is consistent with his overall sensibility throughout his political career, prior to his run for the presidency. He may not have been someone I often agree with, but he didn't fill me with HORROR the way his compatriots do. For the rest of my life, I will say that the most defining moment of the 2008 presidential race was this one: I really think he had a moment of epiphany here, where he realized that things had become wildly out of control, and that the very people who were supporting him were not only ignorant and hateful, but truly frightening. | |
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03-19-2012, 06:35 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Just call me Beth
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Business: Faerycat Designs Client: Firestorm | No, he voted for a different one - the one he said should be vetoed was on state level. I suspect the women in his life smacked him down and thus he's changing his tune. |
03-19-2012, 07:24 AM | #11 (permalink) |
Script Kitty Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Between our dreams and actions, lies this world
Posts: 8,194
SL Join Date: 2/16/2007
Business: Black Operations Client: Singularity | It's also worth pointing out that McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate was supposedly made without really doing any research on her at all (not even Google, apparently). From what I've heard, she was on a list of prominent Republicans, and he based his decision on the fact that she was a woman who had a reputation for being a maverick and speaking her mind (I'm willing to believe that he was not, at that point, aware of the contents of that mind). Of course, it was a poor decision made without enough consideration or forethought. But it's worth considering that a man who expresses an interest in a running mate because she's a woman who's willing to speak her mind, is probably not the sort of man who thinks women should be meek and submissive and all that other crap. The fact that he's raised a daughter to be outspoken and politically active also points in that direction. And yeah, I agree with bronxelf about McCain's change, although it was sort of gradual during the Bush years. I think he felt that his unwillingness to embrace the religious right played a role in his loss in the 2000 Republican primary race. It was over the next few years that he started moving more to the right on social issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he's having a bit of an "Ariel Sharon" moment, where he realizes that he's not got much time left and wants to undo some of the damage that he's done while he still can. Still doesn't explain why he voted for the Blunt amendment, though.
__________________ He pulled a Captain Ahab and Jaharpwn'ed her. - Trout |
03-19-2012, 07:29 AM | #12 (permalink) |
Who are you?
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SL Join Date: Early '06 or late '05, not sure. Client: Singularity | I suspect that he's counting on the large number of people who're too lazy to bother checking his record and will just go on his word. |
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03-19-2012, 07:31 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Just call me Beth
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Business: Faerycat Designs Client: Firestorm | I always heard he wasn't given much of a choice on Palin, that the party picked her. |
03-19-2012, 10:07 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Senior Member | McCain's pick of Palin was a cynical ploy to pick up women voters. The Democratic Party was coming off a highly contested primary that would have seen Hillary Clinton be the first woman to run for president for a major party had she won. Many of the women who had supported Clinton were quite publicly disenchanted over coming so close to nominate a woman and losing out. There was even talk of women Democrats not supporting Obama as some sort of protest. It was in this environment that McCain developed a short list of vice presidential candidates who were women. It was based on the Republican theory that minorities don't make thoughtful decisions in elections, but merely prefer to vote for one of their own kind. McCain didn't find out more about Palin because the only credential in which he was interested was that she was a woman, and he thought that alone would secure the woman vote and take him to the White House. Making the choice about her based solely on her biological sex without regard to her intelligence or competence does not comport with any feminist ideal. And we continue to see the legacy of that choice. |
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03-19-2012, 04:23 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany
Posts: 7,062
My Mood: | If I remember correctly, when McCain picked Palin as his VP candidate, he was still expecting Hilary Clinton to be his opponent in the presidential election. So he chose her to a.) appeal to women voters (expecting them to be easily fooled), b.) appeal to the libidos of male voters and c.) embody the fundamentalist Christian values he lacked. Palin was basically a blank page and supposed to be his Christian sex bunny. It was just karmic retribution when her mouth proved to be bigger than her brain, undoing his campaign. It was really sexist in both directions because the decision was based on the assumption that women would just vote for another women and men would vote with their penises. Last edited by detrius; 03-19-2012 at 04:32 PM. |
03-19-2012, 04:31 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Dead Guy
Expert Witless
| I think that is a little harsh on McCain. By the time he made his Veep selection, it was known that Obama was going to be running. Here was the first black American to make a viable run for the presidency, and he was filling stadiums. McCain knew he couldn't just offer another old white guy on his ticket; it would be a non-starter. He had to try to make his own kind of historic campaign. Had to, or he didn't have a chance. It just wasn't the history he wanted to make. |
03-19-2012, 04:39 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Bananas *SLU Supporter* | McCain was always a Party Man with a human being struggling to get out. He's also very self-destructive, a bit crazy and well.... He's John McCain, you never know when you are going to wake up and agree with something he said or want to kill him. |
4 Users Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 04:39 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany
Posts: 7,062
My Mood: | Quote:
| |
03-19-2012, 04:41 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Bananas *SLU Supporter* | I do think he was pressured into picking Palin. But that is as much an insult as saying he wanted her, himself. He didn't care, whatever, if that will help me win, get the wingnut chick. Even though she would be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office. |
3 Users Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 04:49 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
Hive Mind Director
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Business: ANOmations Client: Viewer 2 Blog Entries: 18 | Quote:
If anything, that wasn't harsh enough. Whether he was forced to by circumstance or by opportunity, picking Palin was another example of his incredibly poor judgement and willingness to sell out his legacy. You are seeing it repeating with Romney now. | |
9 Users Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 05:11 PM | #23 (permalink) |
Senior Member | It doesn't matter what kind of pressure was on McCain. He was the candidate, he was the final decision-maker, if he can't control his own campaign he can't run the country. He survived a prison camp, he ought to be able to handle his own campaign to make the big decisions for himself without giving in to any undue pressure. |
5 Users Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 05:29 PM | #24 (permalink) | |
Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany
Posts: 7,062
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Seriously, his entire campaign ran on the "I'm a war hero" meme and he couldn't make his own decisions? | |
1 User Agreed: |
03-19-2012, 05:53 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Senior Member | At the time, I had read one article that stated that Kay Bailey Hutchinson was at the top of McCain's list for running mates, but she had let his campaign know quietly through back channels that she wasn't interested. Aren't Palin and Hutchinson night and day when it comes to intelligence and competence. I do wonder how many other competent women were on McCain's first list who also let him know quietly they weren't interested. It's possible that Palin was chosen because, after everyone else wanted to part of it, Palin was the last woman standing. |
Tags |
arizona is insane, gop war on women, john mccain |
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