text:
Location of the Indiana Agricultural College ---- Mr. Stein's
Bill, S. 156 ---- Debate in
TUESDAY, May 4, 1869.[IN CONTINUATION p. 153.--FIRST COLUW.]
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR announced the special order for this hour (10 o'clock a. m.) being Mr. Stein's bill [S. 156] accepting certain donations from John Purdue and others, and locating and naming the college contemplated by the act of Congress, approved July 2, 1862; providing for its organization and management; adding a member to the Trustees of the Indiana Agricultural College, and changing the corporate name of said Trustees, and declaring an emergency. [Locating it in Tippecanoe county, and naming it "Purdue University." See a digest of the bill on page 250-1 of this volume of the BREVIER REPORTS.]
Mr. HANNA had moved to recommit the bill with instructions to strike out from the enacting clause and substitute therefor new matter, locating the Agricultural College at Bloomington, in connection with the State University.
Mr. MORGAN said:
Mr. President: I have always been in favor of an Agricultural College being established in connection with our State University. I have been in favor of it for this reason: There is nothing to be taught in an Agricultural College that should not be taught in every good College or University in the land. To establish an Agricultural College you have got to establish one with professors teaching the same branches that are taught in all the colleges of the land. In establishing an Agricultural College at Bloomington, the only thing I can see that is necessary to make the State University an Agricultural College is to expend a certain amount of money for an experimental farm - a large farm with good soil and well adapted for experimenting with all the serials. And it should be located where there are facilities for procuring the best breeds of animals, raising them and spreading them out among the farmers of the country. It is very important to every citizen of the State that the Agricultural interest should be husbanded; that it should be fostered and brought to its fullest and most perfect position.
In establishing a College it will be necessary, therefore, to have a man to oversee an experimental farm, and as far as professorships are concerned, the only thing that would be required by the interests of the College would be to have the very best talent to fill the chairs of Philosophy, Chemistry and Mineralogy.
Now if we are to establish another University, and have a sickly, weakly institution forced upon the State, to be supported by appropriations from the State Treasury, it will continue a drain upon the Treasury for generations to come. If the State of Indiana will take hold and build up one institution they can do a great deal better, and a great deal more for the interests of the State than by having half a dozen. The more we have, the worse we will be off because it will cost twice as much to support two as one, and probably the two will have no more students than the one.
I am decidedly in favor of uniting this Agricultural College with the State University, and if the friends of another locality shall overpower the friends of the University I would be for removing the State University from Bloomington to that locality; and let us build up an institution that will be an honor to the State.
If we are going to build up an Agricultural College and nothing else I would say, there is page: 348[View Page 348] nothing a farmer should know that every person should not know. There are some practical things about farming that it is not necessary for a merchant or a mechanic to know, but the general details every person should be acquainted with.
I am in favor of but one institution. If Senators are determined not to unite this Agricultural College with the State University I say let us give it to some institution of learning;-give it to them to build up an Agricultural College on their own hook; and not make the State liable to be called upon to give money for its support from year to year. It is better to build up but one institution. One professor can lecture just as well to five hundred students as to fifty. I am decidedly in favor of making but one institution instead of two.
Mr. GRAY. Mr. President: I came up as a passive Senator on this question at the beginning of the last session. I was passive because my constituents were making no petitions upon this question; and I believe they have no preference as to where this College shall be located. I was consequently left free to vote as my own judgment dictated. When this question was up at, the last session I voted seven times for Bloomington, several times for Marion county and several times for Greenfield, Hancock county. I voted for wherever I thought my vote would be likely to locate it. I felt but little interest in this location from the fact that the bids were nearly all of the same character. But when I heard the proposition of the Hon. John Purdue read I remarked at the time, that I thought I would vote to locate it there, from the fact that the offer was made by an individual against which no objection could be made. I agree with the Senator from Sullivan [Mr. Hanna] that the appropriations made by the county Commissioners to secure this location are very uncertain. I know the counties are expecting great results from it-they are expecting an increased population to result from its location in their midst, and they expect a large enhancement of real estate in their vicinity, but I am of opinion that they will be somewhat disappointed.
But in case of the county propositions there is nothing easier than for some tax paver to enjoin the treasury and prevent the donation being made. I think the individual proposition infinitely the best that has been made. Not only because it is made by an individual but also because that individual is a man of honor, integrity, enterprise and means. But, sir, this is the smallest consideration why I should vote to locate this College in Tippecanoe county. I understand that Mr. Purdue is anxious to do something that will cause the people to remember him hereafter; therefore he is interested in the success of this University. And when John Purdue is interested success is more than likely to follow. Thus we will have connected with this College individual enterprise-a man who has his heart set upon it and desiring to make it a grand success.
And there is no telling how much money Mr. Purdue may spend in the furtherance of this, the favorite object of his declining years Putting it under the fostering care of Mr. Purdue may give the State of Indiana one of the best institutions in the west. In this case I have no reason to expect that this College will come here time after time knocking at the door of the treasury for additional appropriations. I believe that putting this College under the fostering case of such a wealthy individual as Mr. Purdue may prevent its coming here in after time asking for donations from the State treasury. I know that when we locate this Agricultural College if there is not connected with it anything like individual enterprise it will stand in the same relation as other institutions of the State and its Directors will not have that concern for its success that an individual would have who is directly interested in its success.I am also impelled to vote for Tippecannoe-county, because the House of Representative has located this College there; and if we locate it this session we must agree with the House-. In all probability there is but one more Legislature that can take this matter into consideration and if they have no better success that, past Legislatures there will be a poor prospect for its location at all. As I understand it, the donation by the General Government is for a particular purpose and for no other. Other States are going to establish separate. Agricultural Colleges, and I do not see why Indiana cannot do the same. I am as anxious-to build up a University at Bloomington as any other person on this floor, but 1 look upon Agricultural education as being different from all the branches of learning taught at Bloomington, and the probabilities are that the Agricultural College would receive an unfair consideration there. Therefore I am in favor of establishing it as a separate institution where it may be given those efforts necessary to a fair trial.
Mr. RICE. Unless there is practical knowledge taught in an Agricultural College I have no definite idea of what such a school should be.
Mr. GRAY. I understand that when an Agricultural College is established everything that is necessary to make it a success is taught. As a matter of course, I cannot tell everything that will be taught in such an institution and I suppose no Senator on this floor can. The people of the United States being ignorant on this subject the National Congress has made page: 349[View Page 349] a donation to learn the people in that direction.
Mr. CRAVENS. Mr. President: I do not want to discuss this question for my views are well known. The amendment of the Senator from Sullivan [Mr. Hanna] is altogether in the line of my preference; and I will ask the Senator, to save time, to modify his motion so that the question may come first direct upon the amendment proposed by him. I desire a test vote upon this question. My reason is this: as far as all local propositions are concerned, it seems to me they have not the weight of a feather. The State of Indiana is a bidder for this Agricultural College and the State has the disposition of this matter. The State has but one institution of learning and, as has been well said, by the incorporation of this fund with the University fund the State I can make a creditable institution out of the State University. The State is the best bidder in the market. Her resources and her ambition to make it what it should be will far exceed any locality in Indiana. If upon a test question it is decided that the State will not add this fund to the State University, then I have my preference. There is but one valid bid before the Senate as far as localities are concerned, and that is the bid of an individual who has the ability to carry out his designs and the ambition to back his ability.
Mr. HANNA. I was laboring under the impression that I could not offer it as an amendment. If I can offer it as an amendment I have no objection.
Mr. STEIN. Mr. Presideet: As far as the State University is concerned I confess to as great an interest in it as any Senator upon this floor. My past votes upon this floor clearly establish the fact that I am a friend to the State University. It is but a short time since I cast a vote here for making an allowance of twenty-five thousand dollars to that institution; and I stand here to-day willing to vote as large an allowance to it as any Senator. We have a bill on our files which has passed to the second reading allowing ten thousand dollars, and I stand ready to vote for that as the best I can get.
But Senators should understand that we are called upon to give practical effect to this donation by Congress, and the past sessions of our General Assembly show the difficulty of doing it. No practical effect has yet been given to this donation by the General Government. On the fourth day of July 1872, our days of grace expire, in which event, unless some action is taken by Congress we become responsible to the United Slates for a return of the national bounty. Under the circumstances I conceive it to be of the highest importance that we proceed to the location of this college. We are here possibly in the last week of our session; this bill is a Senate bill, and, admitting its passage through this Chamber it must be sent to the other end of the Capitol and possibly pass three readings on three successive days there; hence it becomes us to make dispatch if the College is located this season. And now I come to the practical question: Is it possible that the location can be made at Bloomington? The chances are altogether to the contrary. A bill was introduced into the House several weeks since which passed the consideration of a Committee, locating the College at that point--
Mr. HANNA (interrupting.) Mr. President: The Senator has no right to disclose to the Senate what the House has done.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR I believe it is held to be improper to refer to the action of the other House.
Mr. STEIN. I shall be excused then from making an allusion to the action of the House. Yet I presume I may safely say that 1 do not believe the Bloomington proposition can prevail in the House. I suppose I am in order in saying that And if there be a reasonable expectation that such a proposition after prevailing here should fail in the other Chamber why simply waste an effort that will result in nothing at all this session but the frustration of any attempt in the way of locating this College. I therefore shall oppose such a proposition on the ground of impracticability. And furthermore I am not certain whether, under the law of Congress, we can amalgamate this fund with the University at Bloomington. The act of Congress says:
Any State which may take and claim the benefit of the provisions of this act shall provide, within-five years, at least not less than one College, as described in the fourth section of this act, or the grant to such State shall cease; and said State shall be bound to pay the United States the amount received by any lands previously sold, and that the title to purchaser under the State shall be valid.
What is meant by that ? There have been in other States wise heads who hold it to mean to support an independent institution. The proposition before us seems to merge this fund in the State University and give that institution the benefit of the increase arising therefrom. If this be not its intent then the design must be to found a separate establishment at Bloomington in conformity with the manifest purpose of the act of Congress. But why do this unless Bloomington, or its county, (Monroe) offers inducements overriding those tendered by other localities? Now the inducements of my county are infinitely greater than those coining from Monroe County. We have only from that locality an offer of fifty thousand dollars, I believe, And I think they are infinitely greater than those form Marion County. But the consideration of offers firm Monroe is not a question before us now; as the page: 350[View Page 350] resolution in favor of the Bloomington location based itself simply upon the propriety of fortifying the State University with the Agricultural College fund, irrespective of any auxiliary bonus from Monroe County.
Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: I said nothing with reference to the proposition from Tippecanoe or Marion counties. I said whenever the matter turned upon either of these points it would be time enough to discuss them. Senators have assumed that this proposition ought to be voted down because better offers were made from other places. This necessitates my saying something with reference to that point. There has been nothing said in favor of the proposition from Marion County; the friends of that proposition seem to be silent. Therefore I shall refer to the proposition offered by Tippecanoe County as published before us. The first section of this bill is defective in this.
Mr. H. read the first section as follows :
That the donation offered by John Purdue, as set-forth und communicated to the present General Assembly in the message of the Governor on the 16th day of April, 1869, and the donations offered by the county of Tippecanoe, and the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute, and the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute of the Methodist Episcopal Church, as set forth and communicated to the General Assembly at its last session in the message of the Governor of the twenty-seventh day of January, 1869, be, and the same are, hereby accepted by the State of Indiana.
The first section accepts all the donations offered by the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute and the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute of the Methodist Episcopal Church and all the donations of John Purdue, and all the donations of Tippecanoe County. Now I say these offers are distinct and separate. The offer made by John Purdue and Tippecanoe County was distinct and separate from the offer by the Battle Ground Institutes, and cannot be amalgamated.
Mr. STEIN (interposing.) The proposition of John Purdue is to donate one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It is possible that a majority of the Trustees of this College may locate the institution at the Battle Ground ; and in that event it will give us the benefit of that donation; hence in order to provide for the contingencies of location it became necessary to accept all.
Mr. HANNA. Suppose they don't locate it at the Battle Ground: and I understand, outside of the record here, (as Mr. Purdue requires that he shall be a member of the Board of Trustees) that he expects the. Agricultural College to be located south of the Tippecanoe river, nearly adjoining the city of Lafayette, and not at the Battle Ground, so that excludes the idea of taking into consideration the proposition made by the Battle Ground Institutes. Therefore I say the first section is defective.
In considering the propositions made the Battleground we ought not to take into consideration the donations proposed by Mr. Mehary or Mr. Purdue. Mr. Mehary offers three hundred and twenty acres of land at Shawnee Mound, in said county, valued at one hundred dollars per acre, on condition that the college be located on the same. Neither of these offers have any connection with the Battle Ground offer. I say that advisedly.
We ought to consider the proposition of Mr Purdue, standing isolated and alone, except perhaps the offer of Tippecanoe County of fifty thousand dollars which amounts to nothing. What is the offer of John Purdue ? To pay fifteen thousand dollars a year for ten years You spend fifteen thousand dollars a year for ten years in building and it will take all he offers to build, and then you don't have a building costing as much as the normal school building at Terre Haute. True he says he will give one hundred acres of land, but you cannot sell that. Then his whole offer is fifteen thousand dollars for ten years, and it will take it all to build the building, and not be enough at that, and it will be ten years before it is ready to be occupied for the purpose of an Agricultural College. You can't take the fund i which comes from the donation of Congress to build a building with. Then you must look to the offer of Mr. Purdue and the manner in which it is to be paid.
I do not desire to say anything disparaging of the offers from these two very liberal gentlemen ; but I say where the buildings are already erected by the State-and they exist at Bloomington-this Agricultural College should be located there. I would rather, as far as I am individually concerned, that it should be located in this city. You have either got to extend a helping hand to the State University I or it cannot be made a good institution. It don't compare with the institution of Michigan or with those of surrounding states. You have got to extend a helping hand to it in some form or abandon it.
The idea I have got is this: that this fund would give to the Bloomington University that much help; and it would give it character abroad. If the time shall come when I w' have to vote between the proposition from Indianapolis and particular localities then of course I shall decide as I think will be for the public good. As I am now speaking I am not looking to any particular place. No matte where the State University would be my language would be the same.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. Mr. President: I believe this is the third session that the question this College location as been discussed here. I think, as far as question has been considered, heretofore I have not taken part in the discussion, but simply cast page: 351[View Page 351] my vote. To be consistent with my votes I propose to discuss the propositions before us now for a few moments. In the first place the argument used by the friends of Bloomington we have a College there and in that College all the branches of learning usually taught in Agricultural Colleges are now taught. It seems to me that Senators have a mistaken idea as to the purposes of this grant by Congress and when they argue that this College should be located at Bloomington because the other branches of learning are taught at the State University I am led to think that they have not read the laws of Congress upon that subject. The fourth section of the act donating [his fund to the several States reads as follows:
"SEC. 4. And be it farther enacted, that all money derived from the sale of the lands aforesaid, by the State to which the lands are apportioned, and from the sale of the land scrip hereinbefore provided for shall be invested in stocks of the United States or some other safe stocks, yielding no less than five per centum upon the par value of said stocks, and that the money so invested shall constitute a perpetual fund, the capital of which shall remain former undiminished, except so far as may be provided in section fifth of this act, and the interest of which shall be inevitably appropriated by each State which may take and claim the benefit of this let, to the endowment, support, and maintenance of it least one college, where the leading object shall be, without excluding other scientific and classical studies, and including military tactics, to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and the mechanical arts, in such mariner as the legislatures of the States may respectively prescribe, in order to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions in life.
Now Mr. President that is the object of this donation, and still for three sessions we have had an argument for locating this College at Bloomington because an Agricultural College excludes the teaching of these other sciences. The express provision of this grant is that in this College shall be taught all the branches that no branch shall be excluded, but Agriculture shall be made a specialty. That is all there is in the provision, yet gentlemen argue because the Bloomington University teaches these other branches, therefore this Agricultural College would not be separate because it teaches nothing else. Now, sir, as to their other argument; they say Bloomington University is the University of the State. That is true enough, sir. It has cost the State of Indiana, and is now costing, and perhaps will for all time to come cost perhaps thirty thousand dollars a year. Now this section of the act provides that this shall be the endowment of the Agricultural College. As a matter of course the principal is not drawn upon twenty-five thousand dollars is properly the endowment fund. Now I maintain under the provisions alluded to by the Senator from Tippecanoe, that we have no right, under the at of Congress to connect this Agricultural College with any University of this State. This whole act goes upon the principle that the State of Indiana is to establish a College-
Mr. HANNA (interrupting.) I would ask the Senator if a University is not an aggregation of Colleges?
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. Certainly, but a University does not necessarily embrace a college in which is taught agriculture and the mechanics arts or military tactics. The bill has no reference to this.
Now, Mr. President, as I have stated, this question has been considered here for three sessions and I have voted in favor of the location in Tippecanoe county. They have shown us that this College there should be made a success. The county of Tippecanoe has offered much the best considerations and inducements for the location there. I remember in 1867 when her citizens were here manifesting their wonted enterprize and zeal for the purpose of securing the location of the College there, about the time the Legislature was prepared to take a vote the County of Marion came in with a proposition of one hundred thousand dollars. I submit to Senators for what was that proposition made? Every Senator well knows it was for no other purpose but to suspend the location till 1869; we know gentlemen interested in the Marion county location made a report to that effect. It was not to locate the College, but that it might put off the location until another session; and now, after the matter has been investigated by a Committee and they see that Tippecanoe county is still in earnest, the Committee regarding her proposition as the only legitimate one now before this body and recommending the passage of the bill locating this College there, then Marrion county comes in with an additional offer of seventy-five thousand dollars; and I am told you may go and search the records of Marion county in vain, and you cannot find that proposition upon record to-day. What is the purpose of this? Is it not that this location shall be postponed so that we will be compelled, when the enterprise of the people is exhaused, the people of Indiana will do, as they have done in the past, give it to them as a gratuity?
Marion county has her proposition to give one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars in bonds. What are her bonds worth? If good faith were preserved the county might pay them, but suppose some tax payer steps in and asks the Court to enjoin their payment? I ask what authority has Marion county to issue one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars in bonds for such purposes? It is said there may be an act passed to legitimize and authorize the issue of such bonds. There is no act to authorize the county of Marion to page: 352[View Page 352] issue one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars in bonds.
Now here is a plain, tangible and fair proposition coming from Tippecanoe County. It is one that the Legislature can enforce. It is that Mr. Purdue will give one hundred and fifty thousand dollars conditioned upon the location of this Agricultural College in Tippecanoe county. And suppose the persons having charge of the location determine to locate it at the Battle Ground, in addition to this one hundred and fifty thousand dollars the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute tender their buildings and grounds, and the Trustees of the Battle Ground Institute of the Methodist Episcopal Church tender their buildings and grounds, which they have the power to do. Then here are propositions a-mounting to ninety thousand dollars and one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, making a total of two hundred and forty thousand dollars which is legal and which the law would authorize the collection of.
Mr. RICE (interposing.) The Senator says that some tax payer might step in and enjoin the collection of the appropriation made by Marion County to secure the location of the College. What would prevent a tax payer in Tippecanoe County from stopping the payment of the fifty thousand dollars appropriated by that county on the same conditions?
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison. Nothing under Heaven.
Mr. STEIN. If the Senator will permit me I desire to meet that question right here by offering the following assurances-a written guarantee-which will be deposited with the Secretary of State, and which I desire read.
The Secretary read a written guarantee that the fifty thousand dollar donation proposed by the Commissioners of Tippecanoe county should be paid as agreed, which guarantee was signed by H. W. Chase, Martin L. Pierce, John Purdue, Mr. Sample, Mr. Reynolds and others.
Mr. STEIN. And I will add my own name. All with the exception of myself are worthy citizens of my county. By this paper we guarantee that our county subscription will be made good.
Mr. HANNA. What is the consideration for the guarantee?
Mr. STEIN. In consideration of the location of this College in Tippecanoe County. It is a valid and legal consideration.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison, (resuming.) As to this guarantee now introduced by the Senator from Tippecanoe [Mr. Stein] I do not know whether, as the Senator from Sullivan [Mr. Hanna] suggests, but that it may be here,as no consideration for it--
Mr. STEIN (interposing.) It is expressly stated that the consideration is the location the Agricultural College in Tippecanoe county.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. But I without any consideration, the gentlemen signed that paper are well enough known the State, and the fifty thousand dollars guaranteed by them will be paid. But suppose the Tippecanoe Battleground proposition is rejected, you still have two hundred thousand dollars and one hundred acres of land. Then here are four legal propositions these people of Tippecanoe have presented to us.
Objection has been made that this one hundred and fifty thousand dollars is to be paid in enstallments fifteen thousand dollars yearly but I see from this paper before me that Senator Stein has notified the Legislature that Mr. Purdue will make the payments in such sums and at such times as it may direct. I think, without prejudice on this subject, as far as my part of the State is concerned, they will be content with the location in Tippecanoe county. I believe I never have heard of any general expression on this subject from my people, but they desire that this College shall be located at some point this session; and Tippecanoe county has certainly manifested a zeal and energy that is entitled to consideration. Therefore as at the two previous sessions I shall favor the location of this College there.
Mr. RICE. Mr. President: The proposition before the Senate is the location of the Agricultural College as contemplated by the statute of July 2, 1862. Now let us understand what this statute means, first.
Mr. R. reads:
And be it further enacted, That all moneys derived from the sale of the lands aforesaid by the States to which the lands are apportioned, and from the sales of land scrip hereinbefore provided for, shall be invested in stocks of the United States, or of the States, or some other safe stocks, yielding not less than five per centum upon the par value of said stocks; arid that the moneys so invested shall constitute a perpetual fund, the capital of which shall remain forever undiminished, (except so far as may be provided in section fifth of this act,) and the interest of which shall be inviolably appropriated, by each State which may take and claim the benefit'of this act, to the endowment, support, and maintenance of at least one college where the leading object shall lie, without excluding other scientific and classical studies, and including military tactics, to teach such branches of learning arts as are related to Agriculture and the the mechanic arts, in such manner as the Legislatures of the States may respectively prescribe, in order to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions in life.
Now what is the object of this statute? It is to build up in each State a College for three objects; to teach such branches as are related to Agriculture and the mechanic arts and military science. Of course it don't exclude other branches, but you can't use one cent of this interest in endowing a professorship page: 353[View Page 353] other branch that don't teach agriculture of the mechanic arts, or military science.
The great point to be settled by this Senate is: What kind of a school are you going to build up? I take it from reading this act that it related to these three subjects and nothing else, and you can't put one dime or one cent either in the erection of a building or the endowment of a professorship, the leading object of which professorship does not tend to teaching agriculture, mechanic arts or military science.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison (interposing) Do I understand you to say that under this act we have no right to introduce any other branches?
Mr. RICE. I say you have no right to endow a professorship to teach the languages.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. I understand that you favor locating this College in connection with the University at Bloomington.
Mr. RICE I do not know how the Senator understood that. I have not come to that yet.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. I understood so from your acts last session.
Mr. RICE. The Senator has no reason for understanding any such thing yet. I am talking about this law of Congress and how to construe it. If I have put a fair interpretation of this law how are you going to build up a University embracing only these three branches? I need not refer to the fact, for it has been reiterated, and gentlemen have been defied to point out a successful institution of the kind in the new or old world. They don't live by themselves. It aint in the nature of things that they can live by themselves. It is a question of relieving the people of the State from an additional burden of taxation,and that is the main reason why I shall vote for the amendment. Take the Agricultural College to Bloomington where there is a University perfect and in tact-where the professorships are endowed and a building furnished; and you will have the whole fund in tact to build up an Agricultural Department. And the reason I am not for its location in any other place is simply this: it will take all your fund-the interest of two hundred and thirty thousand dollars at five per cent to endow the processors' chairs of these three departments. It will take all the fund to get necessary apparatus to experiment in Agriculture and the scientific arts. Where is your other fund that goes to make part of the Purdue University? Where are you going to get money from to endow your professorships?
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison, (interposing.)You ask the question: Where are we going to |et a fund to endow the professorships in the Purdue University? Now I ask: Where are you going to get a fund to endow the professorships at Bloomington?
Mr. RICE. They are endowed.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison. Where is the fund?
Mr. RICE. It is at interest and paying the professors at Bloomington now. The State University lived on her fund till two years ago.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison. Has it run out now?
Mr. RICE. No sir, it is there. This amendment contemplates an appropriation for the State University till 1872, when the amendment proposes to strike it out. That part I am not in favor of. I say foster your State Institution. Its building was destroyed by fire a few years ago, but the people of the County gallantly built it up for the State again, and it stands a monument to the friends of learning in Monroe county. You propose to shear her of this fund; and propose where the people are loaded down and burdened with taxation, both State and National, to start an institution which shall sap the revenue of the State every year, to support the very thing you are getting up. You cannot put up your buildings with the Purdue grant, magnificent as it is, and I honor the man for it.
My people have never canvassed this question, but they sent me here to take care of their interests, and while here I am going to do it. I do not propose to vote to create another Institution which shall be a leach on the State, when we have a dozen hanging on us now. We have an institution of learning perfect in all its parts which is in successful operation. I shall vote for the State University-the child of the State-until she goes down, and then I will look around for the next best thing.
You propose to establish an Agricultural College; and the fight now lies between Tippecanoe county and Marion county. You have got from Mr. Purdue a proposition to donate one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in ten years; but if it were proffered all now it would not furnish the buildings necessary. The interest won't more than support the three professorships which the act of Congress contemplates. Then to carry out the institution, I take it as a proposition no Senator will deny, that the institution can't live by itself-it has got to be connected with a University. You propose to establish an institution that in the next five years will take from three to five hundred thousand dollars to build up, and in doing this you propose to put down your State University now in successful operation at Bloomington.
How does your account of appropriations stand? you propose to vote eighty thousand page: 354[View Page 354] dollars for the Hospital for the Insane; about forty thousand dollars for the Blind; about as much more for the Deaf and Dumb; fifty thousand dollars for the Soldiers Home; fifty thousand dollars for the Reform School; seventy nine thousand dollars nearly for the School at Terre Haute; and as if that is not sufficient you propose to throw away what you have got-your University which you are bound to foster-you propose to throw that aside and get up another pet Institution which shall tax the people and bleed them worse than they are. I propose to lop off these leeches as far as we can, some of them are necessary, however. But when there is no necessity to throw away an investment the State has been making for forty years and it is proposed to create a new one which will cost the State from three to five hundred thousand dollars, I fail to see the necessity for it. These are the reasons I shall vote for the substitute : because it is but justice to the people you and I represent. These are all the reasons I think of for the present. I wish Senators who favor retrenchment and reform to look well to their record in the future before they cast their votes to throw aside the State University. I have no word against Tippecanoe County. I honor her citizens. I think Mr. Purdue has acted nobly, and in a gallant manner. I like his spirit. And I like the interest that has been taken in this matter in Hancock County, in this County and in every other county which^desires to build up a creditable institution of learning; but I will not vote to tax the people when it is not necessary.
Mr. BELLAMY. Mr. President: I do not know that the proposition is directly before this Senate to establish an Agricultural College in Marion County; but if I avail myself of the latitude others have taken I presume I shall not trespass upon the courtesy of this body. I have nothing to say against the wonderful child of the State alluded to by the Senator from Parke [Mr. Rice.] The proposition of the Senator is that we will relieve the State of the expense of teaching additional departments by locating this College at Blooming-ton. We will meet that very difficulty by locating this Agricultural College with the University in the city of Indianapolis. The several branches of learning usually taught in Colleges are being taught successfully at the North-Western Christian University at the present time. When we locate this College at the North-Western Christian University we obviate every objection expressed by the Senator from Parke.
Mr. RICE (interposing.) That is a sectarian school, and will continue to be such. This is a non-sectarian school and was established by the fostering care of the State.
Mr. BELLAMY. It makes but very little difference whether a man acquires his education at a Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist or Christian University. The proposition is that the school shall be controlled by a Board of Directors equal with them.
Mr. MORGAN (interposing.) Would you consider it in accordance with the Constitution to draw money from the Treasury and put it in a sectarian institution?
Mr. BELLAMY. There comes the Constitution again! The Constitution has nothing to do with this question. So far as drawing money from the Treasury is concerned, we are to use this money proffered by Congress; - it is not drawn from the State Treasury.
Now what are the inducements? The only two questions are: Its location and the inducements offered for its location. As to the point of location Marion County is decidedly preferable, as it is a central point and one easy of access. As far as that is concerned it must be conceded that Marion County has decidedly the advantage. Now the only question is as to the inducement offered by any point. How does Tippecanoe compare with Marion County in this particular? The Senator from Madison candidly tells me that I don't understand the bill when I say that the propositions of Tippecanoe County don't go together. I say I speak advisedly; I understand the bill, and they don't go together, Mr. Purdue offers one hundred acres of land near Lafayette and one hundred and fifty thousand dollars payable in ten years, and it is not Mr. Purdue's wish that this College shall be located at the Tippecanoe Battleground: so that proposition by the Battleground Institutes was laid aside. This bill makes Mr. Purdue a member of the Board of Trustees, and puts the location of this College in his power; and he expressed himself before the Committee that he did net desire it located at the Battleground. Now what would you receive from Tippecanoe County? one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Mr. Purdue and fifty thousand dollars from the County: that is two hundred thousand dollars, to be received at the end of ten years. If located in Marion County you would receive one hundred and ninety thousand dollars in cash : two hundred thousand dollars is all that would be received from Tippecanoe County at the end of ten years. But that is not all the donation to be received from Marion County. Her bonds will draw six per cent, interest, which at then d often years would amount to one hundred and forty thousand more; which will make three hundred and thirty thousand dollars from Marion County in aid of this Instituiton outside of the donations of land and the buildings of the Northwestern Christian University.
Mr. STEIN (interposing.) In reference to this donation of Marion County: does it amount to more than one hundred and seventy- page: 355[View Page 355]five thousand dollars?
Mr. BELLAMY. I think it does; and these amounts are drawing six percent. interest, and the Purdue donation does not.
Mr. STEIN. I understand all that; but where do you get you building fund from?
Mr. BELLAMY. For five years we will need no building fund. The interest upon one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars of bonds will constitute almost as large a yearly dividend for a building fund as the proposition coming from Tippecanoe County. Not only that, we have five years in which to accumulate this fund, and with this proposition pending before them the trustees can easily acquire sufficient means to erect all the buildings that may be required without difficulty. That is no objection in the way. The proposition coming from Marion County, outside of the land and the generous proposition of the Christian University, will net in the aggregate, three hundred and thirty thousand dollars which this institution will receive in the way of endowment instead of two hundred thousand dollars from Tippecanoe County.
Mr. RICE (interposing) Was there any minority report on this bill?
Mr. BELLAMY There was not. This additional seventy-five thousand dollars appropriation from Marion County was not in. That was the last straw that broke the camel's back of Tippecanoe County; and I think it is an additional inducement for the location here. I offered a motion to refer this bill back to the Committee after this proposition was made, in order that they might regard it in connection with all the other propositions. Therefore it now comes in as a question to be discussed as the Committee's report does not cover the ground contemplated in this.
As to the legality of the bonds issued by Marion County: - and upon that I suppose most Senators will base their ground of objection: - the Senator from Madison insists that we can't legalize them. I want to ask the Senator from Madison, or any other Senator, if his County did not issue bonds to pay soldiers during the war by the hundreds of thousands, and did not the Legislature legalize them? If these bonds were legal, if the Legislature did a proper act; if they were Constitutional, I would like to know why the bonds issued by Marion County are not just as proper?
Mr. STEIN (interposing) Can the Senator assure the Senate that the Board of County Commissioners have passed an order voting this seventy-five thousand dollars?
Mr. BELLALY. All we can have is the official order of the Board of Commissioners.
Mr. STEIN. I was at the County Record's office yesterday and found no such order.
The paper presented here don't certify to any official act of theirs. Let it be read.
Mr. BELLAMY. The proposition of the Northwestern Christian University, and the proposed donation, of lands have been sufficiently ventilated for the Senate to have a proper knowledge of them.
Mr. STEIN. Mr. President: I move to lay the motion to recommit on the table.
The yeas and nays having been demanded by two Senators, in compliance with a constitutional provision they were ordered and I taken, resulting-yeas 27 nay 10-as follows:
YEAS-Messrs, Andrews, Armstrong, Beardsley, Bellamy, Bradley, Carson, Case, Caven. Church, Eliott, Fosdick, Gifford, Gray, Green, Hadley, Hamilton, Hess, Hooper, Jacquess, Kinley, Reynolds, Robinson of Madison, Robinson of Decatur, Scott, Sherrod, Stein and Turner-27.
NAYS-Messrs, Bird, Cravens, Fisher, Hanna, Humphreys, Lee, Montgomery, Morgan, Rice and Taggart-10.
Pending the roll call-
Mr. CRAVENS, in explanation of his vote, when his name was called said: I want to vote for this motion and I want to vote against it. I want to lay the motion to recommit on the table but not the amendment, so I shall have to vote "no."So the motion was agreed to.
And then-
The Senate took a recess till two o'clock p. m.
Mr. RICE asked unanimous consent to insert a section that the State of Indiana shall never be called upon to make any appropriations for the erection of buildings, buying grounds, or endowing professorships.
Mr. STEIN objected.
The bill was then read the third time.
Mr. STEIN made an ineffectual demand for the previous question.
Mr. CAVIN. Mr. President: The assertion that Marion brought in propositions to delay the location of this College is wholly unauthorized. I am not able to say at what time the proposition of Indianapolis was brought in here; for I believe the Journals do not show, neither does the BREVIER REPORTS. On the first day of March, 1867, the bill to locate this College in the county of Tippecanoe was indefinitely postponed, [see page 356 BREVIER REPORTS, vol IX, ] but the Legislature did not adjourn till the 11 day of March. How then could Marion county have delayed this location?
Mr. STEIN (interposing.) At the time the Committee made a report on the Agricultural College bill at that session Judge Niles presented a minority report which is printed on pages 237 and 238 of the BREVIER REPORTS of 1867, and it closses off by saying:
page: 356[View Page 356]Surely there can be no injury from some further delay in order that the opinion of our constituents may be fully matured and find definite expresssion.
Judge Niles' name is signed to this report and he was the champion of the Marion county interest. I always claimed that Marion county was procrastinating, and it is proven by their own champion.
Mr. CAVIN. How Judge Niles was constituted the champion of Marion county I do not know. I presume he presented his views and opinion as an honest man, and not as the champion of any interest. We discover that this Senate had our proposition seventeen or eighteen days at the last session, before the adjournment of the Legislature. Ten days before the final adjournment they indefinitely postponed the whole subject. Here was plenty of time to act upon the proposition. At the last session Tippecanoe county was--
Mr. TURNER (interrupting.) As the Senator alludes to the motion I made last session, I would say this; that it was by a coalition, a partnership, or any other name by which it may be called, upon the part of those disposed to indefinitely postpone the consideration of the location of the Agricultural College and the Marion county interest that it was indefinitely postponed. It was agreed to by the Marion county interest upon the simple ground that they could not carry the location.
Mr. CAVIN. I was not a party to that arrangement, and I don't propose to be now. I entered into no contract of that sort; and if the Senator from Marion county on that occasion violated his duty, I only say I regret it. But I say this Senate had an opportunity to locate this College. It was not done. What the motives were I am not disposed to inquire into. Tippecanoe county was in the field at the last session, and again Marrion county made a proposition. Hancock County, Putnum County and other Counties made offers, but none of these propositions were acted upon. But we find alter Marion county made a proposition for one hundred thousand dollars, at a later day Tippecanoe County comes back with a proposition of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from John Purdue. So we find Tippecanoe behind us with some of her propositions. We then met them with the proposition of the Northwestern Christian University. At a still later day Tippecanoe county returns with one hundred acres of land. Then Marion County comes with an additional proposition to appropriate seventy-five thousand dollars in addition to the one hundred thousand dollars heretofore appropriated. So we find this matter of new propositions has not been confined to Marion County alone.
I supposed this Senate was inviting competition; and hailed with satisfaction every new proposition. I suppose the true question submitted to us is: Who has the best before the Senate? I say if Tippecanoe county comes in with the best proposition to-morrow we should locate it in Tippecanoe County I suppose we have been waiting and inviting competition and encouraging it; and say "come into the field, we want to obtain as large an endowment as we can possibly obtain."
Even conceding that Marion County had been seeking delay, the State owes that Count a debt of gratitude. My understanding is that the first proposition from Tippecanoe County was some building erected for some College or school and twenty acres of land; and I have been informed that the building was not suitable nor the land desirable. That was a proposition in 1865, and we are told that Marion County was here to bring about delay. Is there a Senator who does not rejoice that she did cause delay? Even if she was in the field for the simple purpose of delay, it was a good purpose and has brought about a most valuable end. What has Marion County brought you by her proposition? Instead of the little school house, Tippecanoe has brought you the magnificent donation of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Marion County proposed the Northwestern Christian University, and again Tippecanoe comes up with one hundred acres of land. Credit this to Marion County. I regret to see a feeling of impatience to get this matter out of the way. I maintain it is a most fortunate thing if it has been delayed.
If the State University were located at the proper place my own view would be to connect with it this Agricultural College, but the opinion has been entertained that the location originally at Bloomington was a mistake, and to invest further in that institution would be unfortunate. I want to maintain that institution with honor and credit; but it seems to be conceded that this Agricultural College cannot be located at Bloomington. Then the question seems to be narrowed down as to whether it shall be located in Tippecanoe or Marion county.
The proposition of Marion County consists of several propositions. First is the proportion of the Northwestern Christian University. That is a large building, situated at the verge of the city, a handsome building in point of architecture, and capable of accommodating five hundred students. There is usually about one hundred and fifty, leaving accommodations for three hundred and fifty more than are usually in attendance there. They propose to the State of Indiana this: "We will cede to you forever the use of the grounds-twenty-five acres-with permission to erect such buildings as you choose; and after erecting such buildings you shall be entitled to in absolute control of those buildings without in page: 357[View Page 357]terference from us." This furnishes you grounds near this city on which to erect buildings. There is also an additional proposition which is probably not entirely acceptable, but which if understood would be, it is this: "As we have ample room to spare, in addition we offer you the privilege to come in and occupy this building with us." This is no entangling alliance. The proposition provides that neither shall have control or supervision over the other, during the five years we are to occupy a portion of this building with them. We have the choice of entering at once into a large College building; this is an additional liberality and not something to depreciate the original proposition.
We are not compelled to move in there, but they say: "Inasmuch as you are not provided with buildings, come in with us, and we will make this arrangement; it shall be under the direction of seven directors, you appointing the three and us three and these six the seventh." Is this not generous? They have not the absolute control and ownership of these buildings, and they put it in our power to equally control. It provides that the property shall revert to the grantor on the removal of the Agricultural College. This is superfluous, because the law provides that where a donation is for a specific purpose, the effect is it at once reverts to the original doner or his heirs without reservation.
Another proposition is from the Fletcher heirs of twenty-seven acres of land adjoining Northwestern Christian University, or on a line within about one thousand feet from it. Twenty-seven acres of rich, valuable land, lying between two gravel roads. They have two propositions; one is: they donate these lands and the Agricultural College may be located there, or if the State accepts the Christian University proposition they will donate. As we find that donation is in addition to the Northwesterd Christian University. In addition have a proposition from Marion County to donate one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars in bonds, payable one half in ten one half in twenty years. The interest on will amount to about ten thousand five hundred dollars per annum.
Mr. STEIN (interposing.) How about this seventy-five thousand dollar donation? Is that founded upon a legitimate order of the county Commissioners?
Mr. CAVIN. It is made and copied literally, among the abstract of propositions attached to the printed bill. There is no misrepresentation. It is not of record. This paper is not an official record, but the one hundred thousand dollars offer is official. But I was a little surprised at the Senator's making that point, for the reason that he argues the official as well as the non-official record was void. If the official record is void there is no difference between them. The question lies deeper than this. It is asked: Has this Legislature the Constitutional power to authorize such legislation by County Commissioners? And it is said: It falls under special legislation and cannot be made under the Constitution.
The point was made that similar bonds for the payment of soldiers were held to be illegal, and the act of the Legislature legalizing them has been determined to be valid by the Supreme Court. I claim that it does not i'all under the head of special Legislation. This is one of the excepted cases in the Constitution, and an act legalizing the bonds issued by Marion county would be good. As 1 understand the proposition from Tippecanoe county, it is a donation amounting to fifty thousand dollars paid in annunl installments of ten thousand dollars for five years. That donation is about equal to the interest on the Marion county bonds so long as they are upon interest. Another proposition is that Mr. Purdue will give one hundred and fifty thousand dollars payable in annual installments of fifteen thousand dollars each.
It seems to me to be open to the objection that you would have a building fund of only twenty-five thousand dollars, and I presume that fund would not be sufficient to commence with. It should be a considerable building and with twenty-five thousand dollars to expend the first year, it could not be erected at the end of the second year with fifty thousand dollars nor at the end of the third year with seventy-five thousand dollars,or the fourth, year with one hundred thousand dollars. Then how are buildings to be erected by means of a fund collected in this manner? It seems to me this is a cogent objection against this proposition.
Another objection is that by an irrepealable law it is to be called the "Purdue University." That is not a handsome name to begin with. It don't impress me favorably any how. But there is one thing I must say: I don't regard this as a liberal proposition. It is simply a trade. Here is an old gentleman having plenty of money who proposes to indulge his vanity. It is not liberality or generosity. I say when it conies to a question of motive, it was not one of generosity. If the College is not given that name it sticks out that the proposition is withdrawn. If it had been simply liberality on his part he would have made this proposition, and allowed the State to name it after the doner if she would. This might have been in good taste; but to present himself here and say "If you will name it for me, I will present you my money, but if you don't I won't," is not in good taste. Then he requires that "I shall be a member of the Board of page: 358[View Page 358] Trustees and on ceasing to be an active member shall be an advisory member during lifetime and have visitorial power."
Does this Senate propose to put this institution under the control of any man or body of men? Then how can you correct any mismanagement? Do you propose to part with the control of this institution forever? Marion County asks nothing, except that you locate it in our county and accept from us these donations. But we cannot tell where this College will be located in Tippecanoe County. The Marion County donations are fully equal to those of Tippecanoe; and in this place the College would be centrally located. That is an argument all will appreciate at once. Another is that you can to-morrow, if you accept of this proposition and secure your professors, you can enter at once the College buildings of the Northwestern Christian University entirely separate from their control. And the preference is that the Agricultural lands close by are fenced and you can enter upon them as soon as you desire to do so. You enter at once into possession of an Agricultural College and upon your grounds.
If it is any argument that delay is best we need not enter into this Christian University; we can wait and erect our buildings; so we have the advantage of entering upon the building if we choose to or refuse if we choose to. It is another advantage, that in four or five years you will acquire an experience, and you will know what buildings you will need. Time and circumstances will develop what an Agricultural College will result in. While with the other propositions they commence building as soon as they can get the funds, with us you can begin the school in a large building at once. In the meantime these Trustees, appointed by the Legislature, will acquaint themselves with the working of Agricultural Schools. Even at this date we are groping in the dark. Tippecanoe owes Marion County a small debt of gratitude for bringing her out.
In order to satisfy the Senator from Parke [Mr. Rice] I will say, that the bill which I have presented provided that the State of Indiana never shall contribute one dollar for the maintainance of the College, nor be liable for one dollar of its liabilities. Marion County furnishes the building and the agricultural grounds, and the interest arising from the fund is ample to maintain the College and professorships for all time to come.
When gentlemen remark that an individual would make a pet of it, and it might possibly be the recipient of a further donation, we have no proposition of this kind to make. We make this proposition because we want the College located here;because we are willing to pay this price to have it here.
There has been some doubt expressed about the legality of these propositions. I propose to legalize them. As I have already said: we have the same guarantee of good faith that we have from any County or from Mr. Purdue. I have no doubt of the good faith of Tippecanoe County. They have said they would pay their fifty thousand dollars, and I have doubt they will. The Senator from Tippecanoe and other citizens there have guarantee its payment; and the Senator and his Count deserve a great deal of credit for the prominence they take in this act here; and I am sure that if the Senate shall decide that the proper situation from Tippecanoe County is the best for the State, as far as the county is concerned there is no person on the floor that will more heartily congratulate them than myself. But we must recollect that we are acting for the credit of the State; and Marion or any other county is not to be snubbed because she came in at a late day with an additional seventy-five thousand dollars. I have no doubt that Senators will be actuated only by the highest sense of duty.-I believe I have presented this question as fully as I care to.
Mr. TURNER said: Mr. President: If I am not trespassing upon the courtesy due to the Senator from Tippecanoe, [Mr. Stein,] whose right it is I believe to open this subject upon his side as well as to close it, I will proceed to make a few remarks upon this question:
An allusion to the motives which induced the indefinite postponement of this subject at the session of 1867, has been made by the Senator from Marion; and some explanation is due from me upon that subject. That motion having been made by me to indefinitely postpone, I will state that it was induced and carried by the friends of Marion county, and the Democrats In this Senate whose object and design was to defeat entirely the location at that session; hoping at a future time that they might have the power and might locate it. They prevented its location then for another purpose: it would bring a degree of patronage to the Republican party at the last election. I am always ready to make my motives patent under any and all circumstances. The question of motive then being disposed of, the Senator has referred to the fact that we are not discussing counties, but we are inviting propositions, and considering these propositions.
As we are not discussing the merits of counties but are considering propositions which we have invited for the location of an Agricultural College, I shall confine myself to but two propositions, because I regard this question as being now reduced down to one; as between the two counties of Marion and Tippecanoe. And in discussing the question in reference to the propositions made I must say that I re page: 359[View Page 359]gard the proposition made by the Hon. John Purdue as the only one that has been made to this General Assembly that will hold good in law. But going upon the basis that the aggregate propositions from both of these counties are good in law and to be carried out in good faith; and, looking upon both of these propositions in that light, I have decided in favor of Tippecanoe County, being resolved that it is my duty as a representative of the people to aid as far as I can in the location of this Agricultural College this session. The proposition of the Hon. John Purdue is a proposition that does justice to the great mind, and the high character of that noble old roman, (as I would call him,) of Tippecanoe county.
As far as the question of counties is concerned, I have no partialities as between these two counties. Neither one of them sends representative to this Legislature that accord with me in political opinion. There is only a joint difference in their history in the past, and that consists in the fact that in one of these counties during the last five years it was at one time impossible for those of my political faith to hold a political convention. I believe, in the other county that right was never denied them. But that is going back upon the past, and has nothing to do with this question now.
The Hon John Purdue, of Lafayette, offers one hundred and fifty thousand dollars payable in such a manner as the State may demand, to secure the location of this College in his county-a munificent gift of wealth, accumulated by that man by his thrift and industry, which he proposes to give back to the public from which he got it by honesty, energy and thrift. This man of money and of I charity, throughout his life proposes to make himself-which I consider one of the high elements of his proposition-a guardian of this institution. And no man who knows the character of John Purdue would feel for one moment that he ever expected to charge the State of Indiana one cent for these services; he does it upon the ground that this institution is to be the pride of his life; and it is to be perhaps, his heir at the end of his life. And, sir, what better guarantee could we have against the filching of public money, or money to be disposed of for the benefit of the public at large; or, rather, that such a thing would not take place in the institution when this man who gives his money and his life to make it, his pride as a guardian of its interests, and who gives it these benefits that it may perpetuate his name hereafter? What better can we do than to let his great talents, in a financial point of view, guard it and conduct it, which will be sure to do, upon that system of that would not be practiced by any other individual in the State? It is to be his pride that this institution shall grow to perpetuate his name, and make it honored in future generations.
But I will consider these propositions under another head, and that is: that all are held to be good in law and will be carried out in good faith. Then what are the propositions presented by Marion County? They amount to simply nothing-admitting the fact that they are to be carried out in good faith. The first proposition is upon the part of the Marion county Commissioners donating-we will take the two propositions together-one hundred and seventy-live thousand dollars in the bonds of Marion County. Now admitting that these bonds are to be issued and are good in law, what are they worth? They are payable twenty years after date, and will only be a subject for speculation upon the part of the money sharks of Marion county and the city of Indianapolis. These bonds could not be sold for over forty cents on the dollar. True they bear six per cent, interest, but money will command readily ten per cent. Then what does that proposition of one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars amount to in cash?-and Hon. John Purdue proposes to make his proposition cash. It amounts to seventy thousand dollars far less than half his proposition.
But we go farther, and there is a proposition on the part of the Fletcher to give twenty-seven acres of land which is represented to be worth two thousand dollars per acre. What does that amount to? The Agricultural College ought not to be run on less than one thousand acres of land, and cannot possibly be run, with the number of student that will be sent to it, unpon less than four hundred; and what is the calculation? The calculation is that Flechers, and others having land surrounding this tract, are to give these twenty-seven acres, in order that they may raise the price of their other acres to three thousand dollars an acre. If the College is located upon that insufficient quantity of land it amounts to the taking out of the Treasury of Indiana, that is to be called upon hereafter for donations to this Institmtion, thousands upon thousands of dollars that it may go into the pockets of these would be givers to the State of Indiana. For where are the four or five hundred acres of ground to be added in the future unless it comes out of the State Treasury? I regard that proposition as nothing except an incipient step to make a grand speculation. I have seen such speculations made-perhaps have been a party 10 them, for I have been in a small way an humble real estate speculator in any life time. 1 have seen the time I would give acres to a public institution because it would raise my land adjoining; and page: 360[View Page 360] I always gave land upon which to build churches and school houses because it enhanced the value of may property adjacent.
Then comes another proposition from the Northwestern Christian University. And that proposition puts this College under sectarian influences, notwithstanding the fact that it is denied here. Now is a great institution like this, endowed by the General Government to be put under the influence of and controlled by them? But what do they demand? They say that it is to be under the exclusive control and management of the State, and afterwards they say that the grounds are to be under the control of seven directors, three to be elected by the Legislature or appointed by the State authorities, three to be elected by the Northwestern Christian University and the seventh is to be chosen by these six. Then if they get three and the State three and these six choose one I would like to knowT if they don't have three and one-half sevenths? And their proposition amounts to nothing-for the simple reason that they propose to give nohting-literally nothing except the use of their building for five years. And the probabilities are that under the head of charity they would claim a donation from the State upon the ground that they had assisted the State in starting this Agricultural Institution:-that they were needy and had assisted the State at a time when it needed assistance.
Now, sir, I have about done; the proposition of Marion County amounts-to sum it up: the 175,000 dollars-if these bords should be properly and legally signed,-not more than a seventy thousand dollars proposition. The proposition of the Fletcher's amounts to the fact that they expect to take out of the State of Indiana hereafter five or six hundred thousand dollars for additional land to be sold by them to the State. But what is the necessity of running this Agricultural College upon ground that is worth two thousand dollars an acre, when the best land in the country applicable to the purpose, can be had for one hundred dollars an acre ?
But the proposition of Hon. John Purdue is a tangible proposition. I have not regarded the proposition of the Methodist Episcopal Institute at the Battlegroucd-I have not spoken a single word about that for the simple reason that I put that proposition upon the same ground of that of the Northwestern Christian University. Unless John Purdue and the other commissioners may consent to locate this College there, and until it is located there, it amounts to nothing, and I shall so treat it-
Mr. CHURCH (interposing,) Would it nor amount to something if we had no other proposition before us?
Mr. TURNER I think the State should accept a donation from no sect, because it would place itself under obligations to grant to that sect whatever charities it may ask hereafter. Well sir, the proposition of Mr. Purdue, which I advocate is found fault with upond the ground that he wants his name attached to the Institution. What higher motive could impel any many to give away his money in great sums than that he should have his name attached to the institution appropriating it? Then it is claimed as an objection that he wants to be a Trustee throughout his life. As I stated before, what greater guarantee can we have for the fair and judicious appropriation of all the funds that may go to that Institution than that this man, who has proved himself to be such a great financier should have the management of it, when his interest for and in the perpetuity of his name has caused him to adopt it as his child? With these remarks I submit that I shall vote not in favor of Tippecanoe County but John Purdue.
Mr. HAMILTON. Mr. President: It occurs to me that this subject has been well ventilated. I thought of submitting a few remarks in regard to the matter, but I don't know that I can bring anything new to light. I remind myself of an anecdote I heard about a certain chap and a cider barrel. He said there had been cider in it and from the way it sounded he thought there might be cider in it yet. So I sometimes think I have a speech to make but when I get on the floor I feel that I am mistaken. [Laughter.]
I want to speak of some things alluded to by the Senator from Marion, [Mr. Cavin.] I have the highest respect for him as a gentleman and for his candor and fairness, and I am disposed to believe that in making his statements he has been candid and fair in all this matter. As far as the question with regard to the legality of these donations is concerned, I leave that for legal gentleman. In the first place let us look over the amounts of the donations from Marion and Tippecanoe Counties. He started out by specifying that the two propositions were nearly equal. I differ with him about one hundred thousand dollars. From Marion County I make it in round number? about two hundred thousand dollars, and when I take up Tippecanoe I don't know anything about these buildings at the Battleground I get in round numbers about three hundred thousand dollars. But let us look at it from the standpoint that the two propositions are equal as far as dollars and cents are concerned, and notice that Marion County is in a central position. Yet we ask the gentleman: What has the Northwestern Institute received? Nothing. We look at this city and see what has been done for it by the public money out of the people's pockets. Here are buildings all about it with spires pointing up to Heaven that give evidence of the liberality of page: 361[View Page 361]Indiana - if figured up it would amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it has had a great deal to do with bnilding up the wealth of this city. At the Wabash river we have an institution erected by the State, the Normal School; and between us and there we have the House of Refuge. Go east and there is the Soldiers' home; but look in the direction of Tippecanoe County. Has she not paid her part of the taxes to build up these magnificent buildings all around this city? An submitting this question in candor, - for I don't know any other way to talk except as a candid man, - suppose the propositions from Tippecanoe I ask Senators which should have the preference to-day? I ask you when you go to vote upon this bill to let this stand out before you.
I want to refer to one fact in regard to this proposition of the Battleground. My worthy friend over there and we ought to like each other because we are both Kentuckians-is laboring under a mistake when he concludes there is nothing in that proposition. They don't propose to ask the State to give them anything for it. I have a little farm over in Boone, and if I would propose to give that to the Senator wouldn't he think it would be worth ten cents? Let us compare it with the I Christian University. I never will give my ' vote to locate this Agricultural College Fund with any religious denomination. The people I am connected with have two institutions and they are building another in Warren County, of which I am a trustee, and if you were to ask me to take it with any of these institutions I would not do it. This Christian University by their plan might have four of the Directors, for they would be just as likely to secure the seventh one as the three chosen by the Legislature. Do we propose to throw this Institution under the control of a religious denomination? sectarian, I propose to say to a great extent: for to a great extent we are all sectarian. I take the position that the Tippecanoe proposition is decidedly the best to say nothing about the buildings at the Battleground which amounts to one hundred thousand dollars. That would give us quite a start in preparing material for a magnificent building there.
Then there is quite a difference between Marion and Tippecanoe Counties as to the security of the propositions coming from the County Boards;-the proposition coming from Tippecanoe County is vouched for by gentlemen of ability for wealth, yet the honorable Senator before us, [from Marion County,] could not present his in a shape that was legal, but relied on some future action of the Legislature to legalize it. I do not propose to operate in that way. I differ very much with him-they say great men do differ-with regard to the proposition of Mr. Purdue. He thinks it selfish. Let me tell you to-day I might regret if I had a mother and she was a widow that she could not marry Mr. Purdue, because, inasmuch as that gentleman has no children I would like him to be my step father so that I might receive his wealth,[Laughter.] He proposes to give one hundred and fifty thousand dollars and his proposition is to give it in ten years, but such is his interest in it, that he will pay it when it is needed, and in addition he proposes to give one hundred acres of land, and I understand that will be worth twenty thousand dollars more. Here is a gentleman having all the wealth necessary to live, without lacking for anything; he makes this donation, and because he only wants to look over this matter, he is said to be parsimonious and selfish. But our friend didn't tell us that this church was selfish because they want at least half of the control of this Agricultural College.
Mr. CAVIN (interposing.) The institution does not want any control over it at all.
Mr. HAMILTON. It does seem to me as though they want the control over it; but we will look after old Father Purdue. Can we be suspicious of an individual that has made such a magnanimous offer? And can we deny-that he should have some interest in that matter? I have a different conception of it. If some individual should propose to give that amount to me, and while he lived desire to control it for my benefit, I would say "sir, go it, because it would be safer in your hands than in mine."
Look at this question candidly. I want this thing located and got out of the way. At the distance of my people from the two counties, I look at it as a matter of justice that Tippecanoe should have it. It is not going to cost a great deal to get there from any part of the State. And as the darkey said when asked how far it was from such a place? It 'pends on how you is goin' if you is goin' horseback 'its fifteen miles, if you is goin' to walk 'tis thirty miles, but if you is goin' on the iron horse you is most dar now." [Laughter,] I think we had better have this thing out of the way. With these remarks I will add nothing more.
Mr. STEIN. Mr. President: At this late hour of the day and session I feel reluctant to add any thing to what has been said; yet as my silence might be reflected on in other quarters I cannot properly avoid, (even at the risk of indulging in a repetition of what I may have at one or another time already said,) to submit what occurs to me in relation to a comparison f the offers from Tippecanoe and Marion Counties. But allow me a prefatory remark or two.
I do not desire to travel back at this stage page: 362[View Page 362] and renew the long contest had over this College question. I will simply call attention to the great injustice done to the people by delaying the location of the College. A generation of scholarship lasts no longer than about five years, and by our protracted wrangles in the past we have lost one class forever. It is quite possible that the delay, as intimated by the Senator from Marion [Mr. Cavin,] brought about its blessings, by giving opportunity for the more liberal contributions now offered. But this result was not of man's seeking-it must be credited to the special Providence which overruled for good the obstructions interposed for evil. But we can no longer trifle with the subject in a like manner. The necessity of locating the College now is apparent. We have but another session between this and the expiration of our days of grace in 1872. The experience of four sessions wasted in futile effort is full of admonition against further delay. Therefore let us not go hence without executing our duty and putting a final quietus upon the contentions which have heretofore beset this great trust.
To return to the propositions now before us from Tippecanoe and Marion. They differ radically, as I conceive, in their character. The one comes to us in a spirit of unselfishness and of devotion to the sacred cause of education-unless, indeed, the honorable pride of a name be deemed a blameable selfishness. Can we say the like of the offer from Marion County? Let us investigate it; let us examine its underlying purposes; let us test its guarantees. I fear we have been deceived by pretentious and appearances. It behoves us in the settlement of this great benefaction of the General Government to walk by a sure path and on safe ground. We cannot fly off at hap hazard in the wake of a delusive will-o-the-wisp. We should be well assured that the considerations tendered as the price of location will stand fire in the courts of law and can be enforced.
The offer from Marion County, as a County, is one of money. In aid of this certain individuals, and more particularly a sectarian corporation, to which I shall again refer, offers grounds and buildings. The first in order is the County offer. It stands before us in two sections. The first covers an installment of one hundred thousand dollars and has been before us since the last session; the second came a few days ago and pretends to be an offer of seventy-five thousand dollars.
Now I may observe once again, what I have urged before, that all appropriations by County Boards to this object lack a reliable basis of legitimacy. They are open to the warfare of dissatisfied tax payers, who by the process of injunction may haply in a day dissipate the flourishing subsidies now tendered to us. It will require enabling legislation to valid such tenders and even then the question remains debateable on Constitutional grounds. But I merely recall this objection by way of suggestion. I do not insist upon it for the for the present as against the one hundred thousand dollar offer of Marion. I believe this offer is duly supported by the official action of the County Board.
But as regards the second offer-that of seventy-five thousand dollars. I am surprised that more indignation was not manifested on this floor at the shape in which it came to us. It is a communication to the Governor signed by three who describe themselves as Commissioners of Marion County, asking him to apprise the General Assembly that they will appropriate seventy-five thousand dollars &c. When it was read in this chamber, in the haste of the occasion we were all misled into the notion that it was an official appropriation, already duly made by the Board, But what is the fact? The Senator from Marion County admits on this floor that there never was such an order made. I charge here that I personally have had the records of the Commissionees' Court examined and that no such order can be found in them. This offer can have been pushed hither for no other purpose than to hoodwink and deceive us. I cast no imputation upon the Senator from Marion, who has my unbounded respect and esteem and who is a man of honor. The offer came to us through another channel-through a message from the Governor; who, also is not to blame, as he could do nothing but lay before us the paper which had been communicated to him, and with the origin and purposes of which he had no connection. But of the offer itself, as it is now clearly understood, I can only say that it deserves to be spurned from this chamber as spurious and calculated to delude. As an inducement for the location of the College in this city it is a snare and should be shunned and repudiated accordingly.
Then what have we from Marion county? One hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars; seventy-five thousand of which is a myth and a vanity. And how is this sum secured? By six per cent Connty bonds payable in ten and twenty years. And these are to form the building fund. We have nothing else to re* sort to for the erection of the necessary buildings. We cannot encroach upon the scrip fund. The act of Congress forbids that. Then what shall we value these County bonds as a present building fund? What per centage would they bring in the money market; running on such a time and with the risk of being stopped by the action of any discontented tax-payer? Ask the business men of this city. Would they fetch fifty per cent? I have been collecting some opinions from judicious and reliable page: 363[View Page 363] and find that the common judgment runs from twenty to forty per cent. By the time we have suffered this shave what becomes of your one hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars? We would find that these bonds are but part of a money scheme, hatched for speculation and ultimately inuring to the benefit of sharpers more interested in the discount than the College.
But I fancy I hear the Senator from Marion saying: "We bring you the Northwestern Christian University." True; and I look upon the offer from that Institution as even more obnoxious than that from the County. It comes to us covered and manacled with conditions all looking to the ultimate absorption of the Agriculture College and its government. The offer from the Fletcher heirs is simply in aid of the Northwestern Christian University. The two are together in the same bed. We sre told that we may be fellow lodgers with our College in the University for five years, provided, we in the mean while, work up a ouilding for ourselves on their grounds, and, when our term is out, quit and betake ourselves to our own roost. We must keep ourselves caged however on their campus-a patch of some twenty-five acres. They retain the title but for the sake of our company they fill give us an undivided half interest. One thing, however, they do not give us; complete control and government. Three of the seven directors shall be of their choosing and the seventh shall be chosen by the preceeding six. Thus they have half the government, and BOW long, in this city-where the Legislature sits handy and accessible to the continual pressure of the most interested party-how long I ask will it be before the Northwestern Christian University owns the whole College and its government?
Sir, I protest against putting this magnificent grant under sectarian influences. I share the sentiments of the Senator from Clinton [Mr. Hamilton,] on this subject, and trust the Legislature will be slow in lending ear to solicitations which strike at our sovereignty and the character of the Institution we are called upon to originate.
But consider the offers from my own County-Tippecanoe. We ask no subtraction of the severeignty of the State. We leave the government of the College and the scheme of education where it now resides-with the Legislature. As to our main offer it asks no conditions except such as the State can readily grant without a deduction of its own powers and supervision in all essential matters. It is the honor of a name in behalf of the munificent donor. I am surprised to find this mature of the offer the subject of censorious sm on this floor. It has been stigma-as selfish vanity for Mr, Purdue to ask that the Institution be named the "Purdue University."
Sir, it strikes me as a vanity worthy of all honor and imitation. It is the vanity of all the genuine philanthropists of our race. It is the honorable and praiseworthy vanity which associates itself with the sacred cause of education and public morals. We can look with contempt upon the selfish vanity of the Egyptian monarch who sought his immortality in the everlasting worthless pyramid, but he who seeks his fame in the advancement of his fellow man-in the dedication of his fortune and his efforts to mental enlightement and public virtue appeals to every sentiment of admiration and respect which can animate the human mind. To call this a selfish vanity is to misname things. May the kind Providence who has ever kept the destinies of our Commonwealth in friendly keeping, (shower down such selfish vanity bountifully upon our people.
As a legislator I shall always be delighted to assist and encourage it. And let me say in reference to this question of a corperate name-"Purdue University"-it is but a small return, and one which costs the State nothing, for the splendid donation he offers. I would deem it a wanton indignity to the liberal spirit in which he stands before us to deny him this distinction-or to couple it with qualifying words. What I said to the Committee which had this bill under consideration I say here; that I consider this name as a most harmless and reasonable demand on the part of Mr. Purdue, and that I cannot consent to have a, syllable or a letter added thereto or taken therefrom-and that rather than see it done I should feel myself, with all due respect to my colleagues on this floor, compelled to retire from the field with all his offers and leave the competition to other quarters. I say this on my own motion and not under instructions from, Mr. Purdue.
But, I may be told, Mr. Purdue makes further stipulations. True; but they are all for the benefit of the Institution, and with a view to its entire success. He asks to be added to the present Board of Trustees in order to have a voice in the selection of the precise point in Tippecanoe County at which the College is to be located. Is this unreasonable? We have auxiliary offers from two localities in our county. One from the old Battleground-the veteran applicant of many years for this institution-the other from Mr. Meharry of Shawnee Mound.
Who is better qualified to assist us this matter of location than one of our most intelligent citizens-familiar with our people and our localities for over thirty years? He also asks that should he during his life time, cease to be trustee, he may be retained as an advisory mem page: 364[View Page 364]ber of the Board. This confers no power and is for the advantage of the great trust. He also asks visitorial power; but of a limited kind. A general power of visitation would, I grant, on common law principles include the a right of dictating a scheme of education-but this he disclaims; and hence his visitorial power is expressly limited by the letter of the bill. He "shall have visitorial power for "the purpose of Inspecting the property, real and personal, of said University; recommending to the Trustees such measures as he may deem necessary for the good of the University and investigating the financial concerns of the corporation." These are the limits of his power and they are asked, to use his own words to me-"to see that no one steals or mismanages the funds." A better party to exercise such powers you could not find if you ransacked the State from centre to circumference. These are the conditions, and the only conditions which qualify the cash offer of Mr. Purdue. But he guarantees in addition one hundred acres of land, suitable and appurtenant to the University. As I understand his mind he inclines in favor of a location adjacent to Lafayette. If so, the land cannot be worth less than one hundred dollars, and may be as much as five hundred dollars an acre. This he guarantees. Here then you have the land and a building fund of two hundred thousand dollars for let it not be forgotten that Tippecanoe as a county by its Commissioners has tendered fifty thousand dollars and that the order of the Commisioners is guaranteed in writing by responsible parties in Lafayette.
Under the supervision of such a manager as Mr. Purdue you can with one hundred thousand dollars or one hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars put up such structures on the selected site as will be the pride of every citizen of Indiana. Then add what is left over-say one hundred thousand dollars, to the Congressional fund and you have an endowment of about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars to begin with-yielding a yearly revenue of from twenty to twenty-five thousand dollars-sufficient to equip the professorships with the finest talent of either hemisphere. Behold then the proud and solid foundation which invites your favor. It rests secure in private and local enterprise and casts no menacing side-glace at the Treasury of the State.
I finish, Mr. President, my comparison of the offers from Marion and Tippecanoe. I will avoid unnecessary prolixity. I am well persuaded that the minds of Senators under the discussions which have been had are measureably settled on this subject. Time is wearing. We have a great deal of other important legislation on our hands, and therefore, if I am not infringing on the desire f others to be heard, I now move the previous question.
Mr. HANNA. Will the Senator withdraw that motion for a moment?
Mr. STEIN. Certainly.
Mr. HANNA. Mr. President: It is Well, known by Senators here that I advocate the location of the Agricultural College at the State University. There is a spirit of restlessness exhibited here that shows that the Senate intends to locate it somewhere this session, as far as the action of the Senate is concerned There is now but two alternatives presented to my mind: one is the location in Tippecanoe County and the other in Marion County. Now if we are called upon to decide as between these two; for it follows that it is limited to these two, the proposition I offered having been voted down;-if we have to be limited to these two, then every Senator has to take his stand. I do not want to go back and discuss the question of the first donation of these lands It was of that vast system of stealing the public lands which has been going on for the last few years. It has been an expense to the State of Indiana from the time we took charge of it; and I myself, am willing to agree that we should get rid of it by indefinitely postponing or locating it. We are consuming too much time of the people in talking about it.
It is not necessary to rehearse the offers made by Tippecanoe County. The offer as made by the County itself, and the offer of the County of Marion as made by the County itself, I do not regard as of any availability at all. It is true we might proceed to compel a compliance with the conditions but how can we bind the tax payers, when they have a Constitutional right to interpose and prevent the payment of those bonds?
The other day the Supreme Court decided that the Board of Commissioners of Putnam County had no right to take money out of the Treasury and pay for a poor farm, because they possessed a piece of land they held for that purpose. Why did they decide so? Upon the principle that the Board of Commissioners were trifling with limited powers; and powers defined by the law which created the institution itself. There is no power to enforce a tax upon me for building up an Agricultural College. Then I regard these proposition as amounting to nothing.
The question is are we willing to locate this College upon the proposition on the part of an individual? If so I take my stand upon the proposition of the individual who I understand is able to meet his contracts. If he is able to meet his contracts it is that much towards the erection of that institution; and if the Senate is bound to locate this Agricultural College at this session, I do not see how we can do other page: 365[View Page 365]wise.
For myself I would vote for Tippecanoe County in preference to voting for Indianapolis, if there was not a dollar offered by Tippecanoe County. I never would give my vote for the education of children in Marion County since I stood in that room and saw her citizens chuckling while a military officer was training his cannon upon a Democratic meeting in this city. I am controled by poor frail human nature. If a man strikes me he must expect to be stricken back if it is twenty years afterward. Marion County can get no vote from me to educate children in her midst at the expense of the public Treasury. If driven to choose between these two propositions I shall vote for Tippecanoe as between the two.
Mr. STEIN. I now renew my motion for the previous question.
The demand for the previous question was seconded by the Senate.
The main question being shall the bill pass? a constitutional provision requiring the yeas and nays, they were ordered and being taken resulted-yeas 32, nays 10-as follows:
YEAS-Messrs. Andrews, Armstrong, Beardsley, Bird, Bradley, Carson, Case, Church, Cravens, Denbo, Fisher, Fosdick, Gifford, Gray, Hadley, Hamilton, Hanna, Henderson, Hooper, Huey, Huffman, Johnston of Montgomery, Montgomery, Rice, Reynolds, Robinson of Madison, Robinson of Decatur, Scott, Sherrod, Stein, Targgart and Turner-22.
NAYS-Messrs. Bellamy, Caven, Elliott, Green, Hess, Humphreys, Jaquess, Kinley, Lee and Morgan-10.
Pending the roll call-
Mr. BELLAMY, in explanation of his vote when his name was called, was understood to lay that there had been no fair chance to offer substitutes for the bill; and to object to rushing so important a matter through under the operation of the previous question; consequently he voted no.
Mr. RICE, when his name was called, in explanation of his vote said: Having decided this question fairly before this Senate against the location of the Agricultural College at Bloomington, in defiance of what I believed was right and for the best interests of the State; and being driven to a proposition to run this State in debt again, as between Marion County and Tippecanoe, to build up an institution of learning in this State, I shall give my preference for the County of Tippecanoe. I vote "aye."
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR Announced the vote-yeas 32, nays 10-as above recorded.
So the bill passed.