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The 2013 Veterinary Teaching Hospital Open House will be held on Friday and Saturday, April 5-6, 2013.
The open house is a yearly event coordinated and run by the students in the Professional Veterinary Medical Program. Our open house events include lectures, demonstrations, tours through the hospital, and more than 15 displays. View the 2013 VTH Open House brochure.
6-7 p.m. – The Basics of Raising Backyard Chickens – Dr. Kristy Pabilonia
7-7:15 p.m. – Refreshments
7-8 p.m. – What is Equine Sports Medicine and What Role Does it Play in the Life of the Equine Athlete? – Dr. Melissa King
7:15-8:30 p.m. – Live Chicken Demo – Dr. Kristy Pabilonia
9:30-10:30 a.m. – Weird, Wild and Wacky - Zoological Medicine at CSU – Dr. Matt Johnston
10:30 a.m.-12:30 p.m. – Equine First Aid Lecture and Workshop – Dr. Dean Hendrickson
12:30-1:30 p.m. – What CSU does for the Community – Dr. Ruch-Gallie
1:30-2:30 p.m. – So You Want to be a Veterinarian – Dr. Sherri Stewart
12:30-2:30 p.m. – Police Dog Demo with Officer Giddings
2:30-3:30 p.m. – Understanding Your Cat's Appetite: Nutrition in Cats and Tips and Tricks for Feeding the Finicky Feline – Dr. Jessica Quimby
Hospital tours will be conducted every 15 minutes on Saturday. Large groups are encouraged to make a reservation by calling (970) 297-1269.
All open house events are free and open to the public! View a Map for directions and parking information.
Please do not bring your animal to this event. You will not be permitted to tour the hospital. Thank you for your cooperation in keeping every person and animal safe and healthy!
Apply to CSU | Contact Us | Disclaimer | Equal Opportunity | Privacy Statement For feedback regarding this site, contact Webmaster at firstname.lastname@example.com. © Copyright 2012 by College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences Colorado State University. All Rights Reserved.


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Nalgene* Repairable Hand-Operated PVC Vacuum Pumps with Gauge
Thermo Scientific* Nalgene PVC Hand-Operated Vacuum Pumps with Gauge are ideal for siphoning, filtration, liquid transfer, bleeding fluid lines, and checking for leaks.
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Coming in September, The Star-Herald will recognize working women of Central Mississippi with the selection of "Woman of the Year" for 2012.
Nominations for the title are being asked. If you know a woman whom you think is deserving of the title contact The Star-Herald.
Send nominations with brief comments on why you think she qualifies for the honor. Include your name and telephone number with your submission and mail to The Star-Herald, 207 N. Madison St., Kosciusko, MS 39090, or email email@example.com.
Nominations should be submitted by September 7.
Community Information
Working Women nominations sought
Anonymous The Star Herald The Star Herald Fri Aug 17, 2012, 08:12 AM CDT
- Community Information
'Dig Into Reading' activities planned at library
"Dig Into Reading" is the theme for this summer's 2013 Summer Library Program co-sponsored by the Attala County Library and the Mississippi Library Commission.
May 15, 2013
MHS cheerleaders planning pageant
McAdams Cheerleaders will host the 2013 Beauty and Beau Review at the Tipton Street (Bobcat) Gymnasium in Kosciusko, on Saturday, June 1.
May 15, 2013
FFA Chapter selling plants at CT Center
The Attala Future Farmers of America Chapter is offering plants for sale which have been grown in the greenhouse at the Kosciusko-Attala Career and Technolgy Center.
May 15, 2013
Basketball tourney set at B&G Club
All basketball semi pro leagues, church teams and high school teams are invited to participate in a tournament planned May 18, 10 a.m. until, at the Oprah Winfrey Boys & Girls Club on Knox Road in Kosciusko.
May 8, 2013
Planning meeting for school reunion Saturday
A planning meeting for the New Garden School and Community reunion will be held Saturday at 10 a.m. at Gin and Kee's Restaurant in McAdams.
May 2, 2013
Mother's Day luncheon May 10
Helping Hands Mother's Day luncheon fundraiser will be held May 10, 11 a.m. until 1 p.m. at Williamsville Baptist Church. Tickets are $10. There will be second time around jewelry, devotional books, purses and a silent auction.
May 2, 2013
Weir Flea Market Saturday
A flea market will be held in Weir on Saturday 7 a.m. – 2 p.m. There is no vendor fee. For information, call the Choctaw County Extension Office at 285-6337 or email email@example.com. Application is available at http://msucares.com/counties/choctaw_10/info.html
May 2, 2013
Prayer Thursday at Redbud Springs Park
Citizens of Kosciusko, Attala County, and the surrounding area are invited to join the Attala County Ministerial Association for an observance of the 62nd Annual National Day of Prayer today (Thursday) at Redbud Springs Park at the corner of South Natchez Madison Street and East Monroe Street in Kosciusko at 12:20 p.m.
May 1, 2013
Durant Clean-up Day Saturday
A citywide clean-up day in Durant will be held Saturday, 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.
April 25, 2013
Shady Grove reunion Sunday
Shady Grove homecoming and Shady Grove School reunion will be held Sunday. Homecoming service will be held at 11 a.m., lunch at noon, and school reunion at 1 p.m.
April 25, 2013
- More Community Information Headlines
'Dig Into Reading' activities planned at library
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- Jodi Arias: Death Penalty Would Cause More Pain Looking for Love? Take the Prague Metro Crews Race to Find Survivors of Okla. Twister First Person: Baby Falcons on a New York Bridge Oklahoma: Images of Devastation, Reunion Reunited Dad, Son: 'We Just Praise God' Slow Pokes: Acupuncture Helps Sick Turtles Moore, Okla. City of Reunions, Tears After Storm Former IRS Chief: Can't Say How List Happened Gov. Fallin: Okla. Facing Horrific Disaster Tim Cook Defends Apple's Tax Accounting AP Photograher: 'It Was a Miracle' They Got Out Raw: Crews Search for Survivors of Okla. Tornado Raw: Tearful Reunion After Okla. Tornado OKC Hospital Describes Treating Tornado Wounded Obama Pledges Urgent Aid for Tornado Victims Raw: Massive Funnel Clouds in Oklahoma
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Baseball Prospectus Premium
Baseball Prospectus is a collection of the game's finest analysts, committed to providing intelligent, high-caliber analysis of our favorite game in books, online, and on radio and television.
Each weekday, Baseball Prospectus Premium brings you the best baseball content on the Web from its stable of talented writers. Whether you're interested in news, commentary, analysis or humor, BP's staff brings you the best around on a daily basis--and with over 1000 articles a year, you'll be paying less than five cents an article.
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Matching 2 Tags
Genesis and the Genome
This article provides an overview of genomics evidence for common ancestry and hominid population sizes, and briefly discusses the implications of these lines of evidence for scientific concordist approaches to the Genesis narratives.
Matching 1 Tags
Engaging Today's Militant Atheist Arguments
In this paper, MIT professor Ian Hutchinson addresses the question of how to engage arguments put forward by the New Atheists. In doing so, he offers a critique of scientism, the assumption that scientific knowledge is all the real knowledge there is.
Understanding Adam
In this paper, Pete Enns looks at from a unique angle to some: Adam is the beginning of Israel, not humanity. He follows through with how this line of thinking affects our reading of the Genesis account.
Science as an Instrument of Worship
NASA astronomer Jennifer Wiseman asserts that studying creation can show us the nature of God; science can inform us of what we need to do as stewards of God's creation; understanding the natural world gives us a deeper knowledge of Jesus Christ; and science can give us a better understanding of ourselves. This essay was presented at the November 2009 Theology of Celebration Workshop.
Accommodationist and Proud of It
Science and religion scholar Michael Ruse gives a personal account of his experiences as an author and public speaker on the compatibility of Christianity and biological evolution.
Human Evolution in Theological Context
In this scholarly paper, physicist, theologian, and minister George Murphy offers a theological look at human evolution and the implications it has for Christianity.
Scientific Fundamentalism and its Cultural Impact
Giberson's essay makes the case that scientific fundamentalists are not merely arguing for the supremacy of science but also presenting science as a quasi-religious replacement. The agenda of the "New Atheists" is not merely to refute mainstream religion but to replace it. Unfortunately, the scientific community is poorly represented by these aggressive public figures.
Christian Geologists on Noah's Flood: Biblical and Scientific Shortcomings of Flood Geology
Geologists Davidson and Wolgemuth address the widely promulgated notion that the Flood can account for the earth's complex geology, and that all genuine Christians should accept this viewpoint.
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My wife and I booked two nights at the Long House because we had a good experience there in 2001. Sadly it has really gone downhill. We were given room 159 and found the two beds had not had the sheets changed from the last visitor, the beds only having been made. There were hairs on the sheets and one... More
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Newborn baby routines
Your newborn baby's typical day
The first few weeks are usually chaotic, but a pattern starts to emerge at around 5-6 weeks.
Young babies typically feed 6-8 times in a 24-hour period. Feeds may last from 20 minutes to 1 hour. They are not always spaced regularly and can be from 2 to 5 hours apart. Newborns need at least 15 hours sleep in 24 hours. Each sleep will last from 1½-4 hours, day or night
By 2 months:
By 2 months:
As babies grow, they may cut back to 5-6 feeds in 24 hours. Feeds are usually more frequent during the day, with 3-4 hour gaps compared to every 5-6 hours during the night. Babies should sleep for periods of 1-2 hours during the day (after each feed), and for periods of 3-5 hours during the night. Sleeps should total about 15 hours
You will have learnt the differences between cries of pain, hunger or tiredness, and your baby will most likely be smiling in response to people smiling and talking to him.
What is your baby doing now?
- During the first few weeks: Take advantage of your baby's short waking times to get to know one another, even if it's just a 10 minute cuddle and chat.
- By 2 months: Baby is more responsive to people and the environment. Each day they should have 2 - 3 playtimes, lasting about half an hour, before or after feeds.
Playtime tips:
- Tummy time on the floor lying on a bright towel or blanket, with a few toys.
- At change time, leave nappy off for a few minutes, and do "bicycle" motions with baby's legs, gently moving their legs backwards and forwards as if they were pushing the pedals of a bike.
- Mobiles over the change table (Black and white mobiles are good, as baby responds more to contrast than colour during the first few months.)
- Listening to music on the bouncer or rocker chair while you prepare the meal or iron.
- Never leave your baby alone on the change table or bed, or in a bouncer on top of a table or bench.
Communication tips:
- Babies learn about the world by seeing and hearing activities around them, and by seeing their parents as role models.
- Use an exciting voice for play and a soothing voice for settling.
- A baby who is talked to a lot will not simply copy the words they hear, but also invent language and learn to like using it.
- During feed time, talk calmly and softly about what you will do today, or sing your favourite song.
- At bath and nappy change time, talk and play, count baby's fingers and toes, sing songs, and play talking games, like "Round and round the garden...."
- When you are out shopping, describe what you are buying. In the park, talk about the trees and birds.
- Turn taking. When you're having fun, baby will make happy sounds, then stop and listen to what you have to say. When you respond, baby will make more sounds. This is the beginning of taking turns, which leads to conversation.
Crying is the only way babies have to communicate their needs. At the beginning, it's quite normal to have at least one or two unsettled periods a day (where there's a lot of crying), and at least one unsettled day per week. Responding to your baby's cries promptly in the early weeks helps them to feel safe and secure. It helps if you make sure your baby is not overtired.
Bedtime safety
When you put baby in a cot, make up the cot so baby's feet are at the bottom end (rather than baby's head at the top end). This avoids the risk of baby wriggling down and slipping underneath the bedclothes. For more information see SIDS and kids safe sleeping.
Tips for safe sleeping
- Sleep baby on their back in a cot.
- Barren is best - no pillows, no quilts or doonas, no bumpers, no canopies, no fluffy toys.
- Use a firm well-fitting mattress.
- If swaddling don't cover baby's head.
- Don't overheat with heavy blankets.
- Make sure the room is smoke free.
Find more relevant articles and information about newborn baby routines:
- Find more about your baby's feeding
- Read more baby sleep advice
- Discover how your baby learns to play
This article was created from the Children's Panadol First Five Booklet.
ALWAYS READ THE LABEL. Use only as directed. Incorrect use could be harmful. Consult your healthcare professional if symptoms persist. Panadol is a registered trade mark of the GlaxoSmithKline group of companies.
Last revised: Monday, 1 February 2010
This article contains general information only and is not intended to replace advice from a qualified health professional.


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Friedrich Schiller: Detached Reflections On Different Questions Of Aesthetics
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A Friedrich Schiller
's essay.
All the properties by which an object can become aesthetic, can be referred to four classes, which, as well according to their objective differences as according to their different relation with the subject, produce on our passive and active faculties pleasures unequal not only in intensity but also in worth; classes which also are of an unequal use for the end of the fine arts: they are the agreeable, the good, the sublime, and the beautiful.
Of these four categories, the sublime and the beautiful only belong properly to art. The agreeable is not worthy of art, and the good is at least not its end; for the aim of art is to please, and the good, whether we consider it in theory or in practice, neither can nor ought to serve as a means of satisfying the wants of sensuousness. The agreeable only satisfies the senses, and is distinguished thereby from the good, which only pleases the reason. The agreeable only pleases by its matter, for it is only matter that can affect the senses, and all that is form can only please the reason. It is true that the beautiful only pleases through the medium of the senses, by which it is distinguished from the good; but it pleases reason, on account of its form, by which it is essentially distinguished from the agreeable. It might be said that the good pleases only by its form being in harmony with reason; the beautiful by its form having some relation of resemblance with reason, and that the agreeable absolutely does not please by its form. The good is perceived by thought, the beautiful by intuition, and the agreeable only by the senses. The first pleases by the conception, the second by the idea, and the third by material sensation.
The distance between the good and the agreeable is that which strikes the eyes the most. The good widens our understanding, because it procures and supposes an idea of its object; the pleasure which it makes us perceive rests on an objective foundation, even when this pleasure itself is but a certain state in which we are situated. The, agreeable, on the contrary, produces no notion of its object, and, indeed, reposes on no objective foundation. It is agreeable only inasmuch as it is felt by the subject, and the idea of it completely vanishes the moment an obstruction is placed on the affectibility of the senses, or only when it is modified. For a man who feels the cold the agreeable would be a warm air; but this same man, in the heat of summer, would seek the shade and coolness; but we must agree that in both cases he has judged well.
On the other hand, that which is objective is altogether independent of us, and that which to-day appears to us true, useful, reasonable, ought yet (if this judgment of to-day be admitted as just) to seem to us the same twenty years hence. But our judgment of the agreeable changes as soon as our state, with regard to its object, has changed. The agreeable is therefore not a property of the object; it springs entirely from the relations of such an object with our senses, for the constitution of our senses is a necessary condition thereof.
The good, on the contrary, is good in itself, before being represented to us, and before being felt. The property by which it pleases exists fully in itself without being in want of our subject, although the pleasure which we take in it rests on an aptitude for feeling that which is in us. Thus we can say that the agreeable exists only because it is experienced, and that the good, on the contrary, is experienced because it exists.
The distinction between the beautiful and the agreeable, great as it is, moreover, strikes the eye less. The beautiful approaches the agreeable in this--that it must always be proposed to the senses, inasmuch as it pleases only as a phenomenon. It comes near to it again in as far as it neither procures nor supposes any notion of its object. But, on the other hand, it is widely separated from the agreeable, because it pleases by the form under which it is produced, and not by the fact of the material sensation. No doubt it only pleases the reasonable subject in so far as it is also a sensuous subject; but also it pleases the sensuous subject only inasmuch as it is at the same time a reasonable subject. The beautiful is not only pleasing to the individual but to the whole species; and although it draws its existence but from its relation with creatures at the same time reasonable and sensuous, it is not less independent of all empirical limitations of sensuousness, and it remains identical even when the particular constitution of the individual is modified. The beautiful has exactly in common with the good that by which it differs from the agreeable, and it differs from the good exactly in that in which it approximates to the agreeable.
By the good we must understand that in which reason recognizes a conformity with her theoretical and practical laws. But the same object can be perfectly conformable to the theoretical reason, and not be the less in contradiction in the highest degree with the practical reason. We can disapprove of the end of an enterprise, and yet admire the skill of the means and their relation with the end in view. We can despise the pleasures which the voluptuous man makes the end of his life, and nevertheless praise the skill which he exhibits in the choice of his means, and the logical result with which he carries out his principles. That which pleases us only by its form is good, absolutely good, and without any conditions, when its form is at the same time its matter. The good is also an object of sensuousness, but not of an immediate sensuousness, as the agreeable, nor moreover of a mixed sensuousness, as the beautiful. It does not excite desire as the first, nor inclination as the second. The simple idea of the good inspires only esteem.
The difference separating the agreeable, the good, and the beautiful being thus established, it is evident that the same object can be ugly, defective, even to be morally rejected, and nevertheless be agreeable and pleasing to the senses; that an object can revolt the senses, and yet be good, i.e., please the reason; that an object can from its inmost nature revolt the moral senses, and yet please the imagination which contemplates it, and still be beautiful. It is because each one of these ideas interests different faculties, and interests differently.
But have we exhausted the classification of the aesthetic attributes? No, there are objects at the same time ugly, revolting, and horrifying to the senses, which do not please the understanding, and of no account to the moral judgment, and these objects do not fail to please; certainly to please to such a degree, that we would willingly sacrifice the pleasure of these senses and that of the understanding to procure for us the enjoyment of these objects. There is nothing more attractive in nature than a beautiful landscape, illuminated by the purple light of evening. The rich variety of the objects, the mellow outlines, the play of lights infinitely varying the aspect, the light vapors which envelop distant objects,--all combine in charming the senses; and add to it, to increase our pleasure, the soft murmur of a cascade, the song of the nightingales, an agreeable music. We give ourselves up to a soft sensation of repose, and whilst our senses, touched by the harmony of the colors, the forms, and the sounds, experience the agreeable in the highest, the mind is rejoiced by the easy and rich flow of the ideas, the heart by the sentiments which overflow in it like a torrent. All at once a storm springs up, darkening the sky and all the landscape, surpassing and silencing all other noises, and suddenly taking from us all our pleasures. Black clouds encircle the horizon; the thunder falls with a deafening noise. Flash succeeds flash. Our sight and hearing is affected in the most revolting manner. The lightning only appears to render to us more visible the horrors of the night: we see the electric fluid strike, nay, we begin to fear lest it may strike us. Well, that does not prevent us from believing that we have gained more than lost by the change; I except, of course, those whom fear has bereft of all liberty of judgment. We are, on the one hand, forcibly drawn towards this terrible spectacle, which on the other wounds and repulses our senses, and we pause before it with a feeling which we cannot properly call a pleasure, but one which we often like much more than pleasure. But still, the spectacle that nature then offers to us is in itself rather destructive than good (at all events we in no way need to think of the utility of a storm to take pleasure in this phenomenon), is in itself rather ugly than beautiful, for the darkness, hiding from us all the images which light affords, cannot be in itself a pleasant thing; and those sudden crashes with which the thunder shakes the atmosphere, those sudden flashes when the lightning rends the cloud--all is contrary to one of the essential conditions of the beautiful, which carries with it nothing abrupt, nothing violent. And moreover this phenomenon, if we consider only our senses, is rather painful than agreeable, for the nerves of our sight and those of our hearing are each in their turn painfully strained, then not less violently relaxed, by the alternations of light and darkness, of the explosion of the thunder, and silence. And in spite of all these causes of displeasure, a storm is an attractive phenomenon for whomsoever is not afraid of it.
Another example. In the midst of a green and smiling plain there rises a naked and barren hillock, which hides from the sight a part of the view. Each one would wish that this hillock were removed which disfigures the beauty of all the landscape. Well, let us imagine this hillock rising, rising still, without indeed changing at all its shape, and preserving, although on a greater scale, the same proportions between its width and height. To begin with, our impression of displeasure will but increase with the hillock itself, which will the more strike the sight, and which will be the more repulsive. But continue; raise it up twice as high as a tower, and insensibly the displeasure will efface itself to make way for quite another feeling. The hill has at last become a mountain, so high a mountain that it is quite impossible for our eyes to take it in at one look. There is an object more precocious than all this smiling plain which surrounds it, and the impression that it makes on us is of such a nature that we should regret to exchange it for any other impression, however beautiful it might be. Now, suppose this mountain to be leaning, and of such an inclination that we could expect it every minute to crash down, the previous impression will be complicated with another impression: terror will be joined to it: the object itself will be but still more attractive. But suppose it were possible to prop up this leaning mountain with another mountain, the terror would disappear, and with it a good part of the pleasure we experienced. Suppose that there were beside this mountain four or five other mountains, of which each one was a fourth or a fifth part lower than the one which came immediately after; the first impression with which the height of one mountain inspired us will be notably weakened. Something somewhat analogous would take place if the mountain itself were cut into ten or twelve terraces, uniformly diminishing; or again if it were artificially decorated with plantations. We have at first subjected one mountain to no other operation than that of increasing its size, leaving it otherwise just as it was, and without altering its form; and this simple circumstance has sufficed to make an indifferent or even disagreeable object satisfying to the eyes. By the second operation, this enlarged object has become at the same time an object of terror; and the pleasure which we have found in contemplating it has but been the greater. Finally, by the last operation which we have made, we have diminished the terror which its sight occasioned, and the pleasure has diminished as much. We have diminished subjectively the idea of its height, whether by dividing the attention of the spectator between several objects, or in giving to the eyes, by means of these smaller mountains, placed near to the large one, a measure by which to master the height of the mountain all the more easily. The great and the terrible can therefore be of themselves in certain cases a source of aesthetic pleasure.
There is not in the Greek mythology a more terrible, and at the same time more hideous, picture than the Furies, or Erinyes, quitting the infernal regions to throw themselves in the pursuit of a criminal. Their faces frightfully contracted and grimacing, their fleshless bodies, their heads covered with serpents in the place of hair--revolt our senses as much as they offend our taste. However, when these monsters are represented to us in the pursuit of Orestes, the murderer of his mother, when they are shown to us brandishing the torches in their hands, and chasing their prey, without peace or truce, from country to country, until at last, the anger of justice being appeased, they engulf themselves in the abyss of the infernal regions; then we pause before the picture with a horror mixed with pleasure. But not only the remorse of a criminal which is personified by the Furies, even his unrighteous acts nay, the real perpetration of a crime, are able to please us in a work of art. Medea, in the Greek tragedy; Clytemnestra, who takes the life of her husband; Orestes, who kills his mother, fill our soul with horror and with pleasure. Even in real life, indifferent and even repulsive or frightful objects begin to interest us the moment that they approach the monstrous or the terrible. An altogether vulgar and insignificant man will begin to please us the moment that a violent passion, which indeed in no way upraises his personal value, makes him an object of fear and terror, in the same way that a vulgar, meaningless object becomes to us the source of aesthetic pleasure the instant we have enlarged it to the point where it threatens to overstep our comprehension. An ugly man is made still more ugly by passion, and nevertheless it is in bursts of this passion, provided that it turns to the terrible and not to the ridiculous, that this man will be to us of the most interest. This remark extends even to animals. An ox at the plow, a horse before a carriage, a dog, are common objects; but excite this bull to the combat, enrage this horse who is so peaceable, or represent to yourself this dog a prey to madness; instantly these animals are raised to the rank of aesthetic objects, and we begin to regard them with a feeling which borders on pleasure and esteem. The inclination to the pathetic--an inclination common to all men--the strength of the sympathetic sentiment--this force which in mature makes us wish to see suffering, terror, dismay, which has so many attractions for us in art, which makes us hurry to the theatre, which makes us take so much pleasure in the picturing of great misfortune,--all this bears testimony to a fourth source of aesthetic pleasure, which neither the agreeable, nor the good, nor the beautiful are in a state to produce.
All the examples that I have alleged up to the present have this in common--that the feeling they excite in us rests on something objective. In all these phenomena we receive the idea of something "which oversteps, or which threatens to overstep, the power of comprehension of our senses, or their power of resistance"; but not, however, going so far as to paralyze these two powers, or so far as to render us incapable of striving, either to know the object, or to resist the impression it makes on us. There is in the phenomena a complexity which we cannot retrace to unity without driving the intuitive faculty to its furthest limits.
We have the idea of a force in comparison with which our own vanishes, and which we are nevertheless compelled to compare with our own. Either it is an object which at the same time presents and hides itself from our faculty of intuition, and which urges us to strive to represent it to ourselves, without leaving room to hope that this aspiration will be satisfied; or else it is an object which appears to upraise itself as an enemy, even against our existence--which provokes us, so to say, to combat, and makes us anxious as to the issue. In all the alleged examples there is visible in the same way the same action on the faculty of feeling. All throw our souls into an anxious agitation and strain its springs. A certain gravity which can even raise itself to a solemn rejoicing takes possession of our soul, and whilst our organs betray evident signs of internal anxiety, our mind falls back on itself by reflection, and appears to find a support in a higher consciousness of its independent strength and dignity. This consciousness of ourselves must always dominate in order that the great and the horrible may have for us an aesthetic value. It is because the soul before such sights as these feels itself inspired and lifted above itself that they are designated under the name of sublime, although the things themselves are objectively in no way sublime; and consequently it would be more just to say that they are elevating than to call them in themselves elevated or sublime.
For an object to be called sublime it must be in opposition with our sensuousness. In general it is possible to conceive but two different relations between the objects and our sensuousness, and consequently there ought to be two kinds of resistance. They ought either to be considered as objects from which we wish to draw a knowledge, or else they should be regarded as a force with which we compare our own. According to this division there are two kinds of the sublime, the sublime of knowledge and the sublime of force. Moreover, the sensuous faculties contribute to knowledge only in grasping a given matter, and putting one by the other its complexity in time and in space.
As to dissecting this complex property and assorting it, it is the business of the understanding and not of the imagination. It is for the understanding alone that the diversity exists: for the imagination (considered simply as a sensuous faculty) there is but an uniformity, and consequently it is but the number of the uniform things (the quantity and not the quality) which can give origin to any difference between the sensuous perception of phenomena. Thus, in order that the faculty of picturing things sensuously maybe reduced to impotence before an object, necessarily it is imperative that this object exceeds in its quantity the capacity of our imagination.
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Holy Mother of Carp, LinkSwarm 2.0 Is Live
Confused? Freaked out? Alive with pleasure? If you think you've found a bug, post to the LS 2.0 Bug Thread, or pop into IRC and see what's what.
OK, we're finally here. That took a while, but I've been promising it forever and didn't want to be a fink. I wanted to finish it up before my boy was born, and I've actually managed it, so hoorays. He's a week and one day old, and he's the one hitting the switch to go live with the new stuff.
This thread should be our migration thread -- in it, I'm going to attempt (miserably) to explain all the new features and differences, and hopefully here's where all new mysteries will be revealed to all SwarmKind via your thoughtful questioning and my hopefully-not-embarrassed-at-having-forgotten-to-keep-some-crucial-feature-around explanations. There's bound to be a plenty of meep that is broken. When you see some of it, post to the LS 2.0 Bug Thread and let me know.
There will be also be plenty of things that seem wierd that aren't actually broken because you're used to the old engine and in the last 14+ months of my laser-focused coding derangement I've gone quietly off the rails and created something too sublime and/or retarded for a casual human glance to interpret. If something wierds you out, post here and let me know.
Because this is an entirely-new engine, it gives us a chance to do a total refresh. I've kept old features that were integral, seemed well-loved or cool. You may notice stuff you liked missing. If so, post it, and we'll see about getting it in.
Firstly, all the old data was migrated over with a few exceptions noted below. (FYI, we have made over a quarter of a million comments total.)
Firstly.5, you can now change your own avatars. Please go do so now, so we can stop looking at the same old meep and enjoy some glorious new meep. Attached to your avatar? Download it to your box, plant something festive on it for the holidays, and re-upload it as your new avatar.
(Firstly.8, when I say Thing or thread, I mean one Link, Forum, or Journal. Links, Journals, Forums -- collectively, these are Things, because literally that's what the code calls them. And because you post comments to them, I also call them 'threads' interchangeably.)
Secondly, let's explain that wierd little box to the right where the sideblocks used to be. The Xray Shoutbox is the old shoutbox, plus the old Talking meep page, plus the old RSS feeds. That is to say, it's a window displaying chat and realtime system updates. Any time anything happens -- nocal submits a link, smurfbarf comments on a forum, wotak submits his 9 millionth comment and wins the "Planetary Commenters Club" achievement -- you'll see it pop up in this window, like an Xray machine for LinkSwarm. If you click the 'More' link at the bottom, you'll see the full Xray page, which is the same as the Xray shoutbox, only bigger, and it'll eventually have clickable links so you can walk backward through time if you're of a mind to.
All things now appear on the frontpage instead of forums/journals appearing in sideblocks, and act just like Links used to. This means you can...
- ClipSwarm Forums and Journals as well as Links. (Used to be just Links.)
- See Links, Forums and Journals on your RapeDAR. (Used to be just Links.)
- Get notified when someone posts to any of your things: Forums, Journals, Links. (Used to be just forum threads.)
- Etc. Literally, they're all the same basic stuff and should Just Work.
Obviously we've kept Journals. A non-tiny number of you saw a distinction between Forums and Journals so I left them in. If you don't see a distinction, then you can use either one. When in doubt, post it to the Forums.
Private Journals are nixed. They weren't really all that useful, as no one really wants to keep a private diary on LinkSwarm. People used them chiefly as a place to hold drafts, so that tells me we should have a draft feature, not private Journals. Journals marked private in the old system were not migrated over. I can grab them from a backup if you have something important in there -- a public service I both feel it important to offer and understand no one even remotely needs.
Link/Forum Categories are nixed. In their place, we have Tags. You can assign multiple Tags to a thread (currently, up to three), which is a lot cooler than having to decide what single category something belongs in. You can now click the meep Tag and see all Links, Forums and Journals tagged as meep. The frontpage shows only the first Tag in a Thing's list. All a Thing's Tags will show up on that Thing's comments page, and it'll be searchable by whatever Tags are assigned to it. We can do even do nifty combo searches, like "Show me all Links that are tagged Funny, meep and Bizarre".
Summaries: When posting a thing, the first paragraph of your description will be used as a summary. This will be visible under the thing's Title on the frontpage. This means you don't have to be super-clever about describing the whole damned thing in the title -- peeps will now also see some of the description on the front page.
- Not only are all textwars now visible on a not-just-when-I-remembered-to-update-the-page basis, but you can launch your own without my help. At least, you can launch your own free ones. Unfree textwars -- you're either not an Alpha, or you are but you've used your free monthly textwar already -- will send an email to me once you've paid, and I'll then hand you a passcode. Then you can launch the textwar on your own without my help. If there's a lot of these, I'll automate that passcode generation, so the minute you purchase the Textwar on PayPal, you'll have the passcode, and can rock out.
- The only kind of textwar currently available is the Beheading -- changing someone's avatar. The other textwars were used so infrequently that I didn't bother making them possible. meep if humans aren't some visual-meep people. Plus in the new engine at least two of them don't really make sense anymore, and there are other ideas that will make more sense, so I mostly wiped the slate clean here and we can create more Textwar methods as we come up with the ideas. For example, maybe we can create a Comic Sans font Textwar where you make some poor meep post in pink Comic Sans for a week.
Alpha Queue
- All users can now see their own things in the Alpha Queue. They can comment on their own things throughout the voting process.
- All users can see the titles of all things in the Queue, so they don't submit duplicates.
- Alphas can now comment on things as they sit in the Queue.
- When an Alpha's vote on a link is the deciding factor, they'll get a little notice telling them so (and there's an achievement tied to getting a lot of these).
- We now have an achievement system. We dreamed up probably 40-45 of these and I've got the code in for about 20 of them. Your profile page will show you the ones you've won and the ones you haven't won yet. Hope you dig these because they were a mothermeeper.
- The way I'm calculating popular things is a bit different. I was using a complicated thing where, when one of your things breaks 1000 hits, you'd get 2 rads for every 100 hits. I think that's confusing and overkill, so now, you'll get 50 rads for every link that breaks 1000 hits. This change means your rad number may change slightly -- probably increase, actually.
- Rads are now smarter about time. Instead of only being able to compare across the last three months, we can now compare across the last 90 days. This means if you rocked the meep out in December but got AIDS in January, your ranking won't immediately take a giant meep when we go from February 28 to March 1; instead, it will gradually taper off as the December days fall one by one off the back end of your running 90-day total.
- Your lifetime rad count displays with your submissions.
- Since I'm now storing rads intelligently, we can do meep like automate textwars and transfer rads among users pretty easily. (Latter feature doesn't exist yet. Post if it seems awesome.)
Scoops. If you're the first to submit a URL, you'll get free Rads every time someone else tries to submit that URL later on, cause you scooped them. This means it pays to get your meep in early, and it pays to check the queue for duplicates before submitting. - Search now uses a Google Custom Search Engine. This wasn't my first pick, since it gives me less control over the results, but my preferred way waited until I was entirely done with the entire thing and then started being a serious mothermeeper about keeping itself updated, and the Google search seems pretty solid and I technically have no complaints, so it'll handle our searching at least for the time being. Google is pretty good at search, after all.
There are three new comment controls that might be a bit confusing, so I'll describe them...
The first one is a cool paging feature.
- @ symbol (AKA twitter notation) If you say @SOME_USERNAME in a comment, the system will send that user a notification that you've said his name in a comment, along with a link to your comment. This is useful for paging people to a thread, and also lets you know when someone's quoting you. So if you post "@meepbox @vasudeva 9/11 was an inside job rite?", meepbox and I will both get notifications with a link to your comment, and will race there to agree and vilify, respectively. These next couple should save you some typing.
- Quote/Reply
If you hover over someone's comment, you'll get two little pop-up clickables saying 'quote' and 'reply'. 'Reply' will put their name in your comment box so it's obvious to future readers who you're commenting to. 'Quote' will copy their name and entire comment into the comment box for you, with a clickable link to the original comment, so that once you finish your response and hit post, people can click the link in your post and jump to the post you're replying to.
- Respond
This one's even better than Quote/Reply. Kind of a merge of the other two, the 'Respond' clickable pops up when you select some text from someone's comment. Clicking it does a quote of their comment using just the text you selected. Saves you typing. Just play with these and they'll make sense instantly.
- We're now using Markdown for comment formatting. Here's a wonderful demo you can use as a tutorial...
You've been able to use Markdown all along (well, since I installed that crappy/nifty live-preview commentbox), but historically I've been wishy-washy about my commitment to it, and that includes my making domeepentation on it accessible. Here's that.
Some quick notes about meep that bugs me and maybe bugs you too...
If you want to create text like this and have your linebreaks honored...
then put two blank spaces at the end of each line. This will make Markdown treat them as separate lines. If you don't put two blank spaces at the end, Markdown will do this annoying thing to them...
one two three
When in doubt, use the handy preview -- the green checkbox icon above the comment box. There are a few cases where the preview may not tell the truth and this is mostly when using the very small set of HTML tags I've left accessible. I'm willing to bet that Markdown does 99% of what we need it to and that we don't need much HTML at all. If you find you need something that isn't there, let me know, and we'll hash it out.
Linking YouTubes and such.
- I've got some code in that should preserve your YouTube embeds. In fact, you shouldn't even have to copy the embed code -- a direct link to the YouTube video should get the embed code automatically wrapped around it. This is true of a couple other video hosting domains, too, but no one cares about them.
- I'd like to get a wiki going to replace the FAQ, About Us, and etc. The plan is to have two flavors of wiki pages -- ones that admins can edit, and ones that anyone with an account and some reasonable trust level (e.g., has submitted 10 things) can edit. This way we can have known-good official docs and pages, and then we can have pages you guys can edit to be helpful or idiots as the whim strikes you.
Yeah. The bookmarklet is the meep niz.
Also, the RSS feeds are in a meepty spot at the bottom. Maybe an "About Us" page too?
Where's the "Last Read" business?
Yup -- thought I mentioned that in the original post but I guess I missed it. You can change your older votes on a thing up until that thing gets processed out of the queue.
You can also vote on your own things -- why not, right? That vote is implicit in the fact that you swarmed it in the first place.
Using literally any browser other than IE will fix the layout issues until I've had a chance to fix it properly.
I tested this part. I used Chrome, IE, Firefox, Starfire and Opera. PM me if you need help.
@spankerchief The footer issue should be gone for you now, by dint of the meep thing just not appearing at all until I can figure out a more long-term fix for IE users. Also, as you go from IE to Firefox to Chrome you enjoy more and more of the LinkSwarm magic bits, so I really can't stress enough how much just meep IE entirely. Unless you're on Windows 7, in which case, IE9 is supposed to finally be decent.
I've got a line on a fix for the uploader and am going to be trying it out over the next few hours.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping me head around the idea that forums and journals are main-paged, and go down the line as links are added. Take the Sekret Satan thread, for example. Dragon participated, but he's known to be away from here for weeks at a time. There a good chance he would never see it.


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"Can I get a "hell yeah" for Ms. Banks!!!"
This series is so incredible and when I thought it couldn't get any better Ms. Banks just hit another one out of the park!!!
I'm NOT a fan of narrator changes in a series because you establish the characters in your mind. HOWEVER, this narrator was absolutely incredible and hope he continues in more of this series!!!! Speaking of which........hurry with the next book please Maya!!!!
Do not start this book unless you have alloted time to do a marathon finish!!! I haven't been this obsessed since the Fifty series!!!
Fabulous Listen!!!! Great story; wonderfully written and the narrator was incredible!!! Bravo!!!!
"This series is so addictive............."
Pamela Clare is one of my favorite authors and this series is incredible!!! It is probably best that all of the books in this series didn't release at the same time, because I would have lost my job and entire life put on hold!!
Also, Kaleo Griffith makes this series as well; yum yum yum!!! Thank you!!!!
"Love love love..............."
Waited for second book and it did not disappoint! Now I have to wait for the third....UGH!!!
"The BEST one!!!"
This is by far the best book of the series!!
All the books are good with a little light-heartedness; however, this book is not only a little dark but has wonderful banter between the band members!!
"Very happily surprised....."
Of course I'm an addictied fan of Fifty; so I'm very quick to point out copy-kats. This book of course does follow the usual path of broken and trying to be in-love.
However, I'm not sure if it was the clever writing or the fabulous narrator that had me glued to it? Either way; I enjoyed the book and look forward to the next.........
PS - Narrator did an incredible Scottish Male accent that almost made me start smoking ..... HELLLLOOOOOO!!!
The book has gotten a ton of hype, thus my download. However.........
I did get pulled in with the first half of the book, but then felt the overwhelming urge to punch Tru in the head!!!! The narrator was very talented, so I do not want to take away from her, but I can say that I will not be downloading the next book. Way too much anxiety and overwhelming angst.
After reading on Goodreads what a fabulous series this was, I couldn't believe that it was finally added!! The narrator was incredible and I loved the characters and story! I would have given it 5 stars, but didn't like some of the turns the story took.....just personal preference.
I will be downloading in anticipation the next book.......lets not let it be too long!!!
Many times when there is a series that you fall in love with at the first book, you don't expect them to keep the momentum. As listening to them (FABULOUS NARRATOR), I considered Book 3 as being my favorite!!!!! UNTIL THIS ONE!!! Holy Baby Jesus Miss Clare.......bravo on this book! I was gripped from the beginning and sleep deprived until the end!
I felt all the emotions which was from the clever writing and the delivery of the narrator. Passion, anxiety, heartache, fear and love; I cried and laughed!!
Can I just say May 2013 is TOOOOOOOOOO long for the next!!
Well it's very obvious that Miss Reisz wants to make sure I die a slow death!!!!
With the ending of The Prince and the next book not in sight; this book gave me an hour and half of some relief to be back in the story.
The narrator was very good as well, good choice!!!


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We stayed 4 nights. The room was spacious and clean. There was a bit of noise from the surrounding rooms, ie doors closing showers etc but this seems to be every where Overall good value. Would stay again.
- Also Known As:
- Albany Best Western
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- Metro Inn Albany are designed with families in mind and include a selection of standard and deluxe rooms, as well as two and three bedroom units with fully equipped kitchens for convenient meals. All 60 rooms include ensuite bathrooms, reverse cycle air-conditioning, telephone, Foxtel, television and Free in house movies, tea and coffee making facilities and fridge. Parking is available for all guests. ... more less
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FINAL SALE Chiffon Short Caplet Dress with Brooch
Style 1463W
Final sale. This item cannot be exchanged or returned.
This item is available online only. *
Polished and sophisticated, you will be picture perfect in this gorgeous chiffon dress!
A sheer, flowing fabric that drapes well on the body. A sheer, flowing fabric that drapes well on the body. A bodice with a high waistline directly below the bust. A great look for most body types. |
*Color & Style representation may vary by monitor. Not responsible for typographical or pictorial errors. Product availability varies by store and online. Some in-store purchases require special order and markdown styles cannot be special ordered. Contact your local store for details.


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WASHINGTON -- American International Group Inc., said Wednesday its board of directors decided not to sue the U.S. government over the bailout that rescued the company.
News that the insurance giant was considering joining a shareholder suit led by former Chief Executive Maurice "Hank" Greenberg provoked outrage and undermined AIG's high-profile advertising campaign thanking America for the bailout.
The company's board met Wednesday to listen to presentations about the federal suit by Greenberg's Starr International Co., which alleges the U.S. government shortchanged AIG shareholders in a bailout that at one point had taxpayers on the hook for more than $182 billion.
Quiz: How well do you remember 2012?
AIG took about $125 billion of the money and the government received a 92% ownership stake in the company. Last month, the Treasury sold its last shares of AIG stock, formally ending the bailout with a $22.7 billion profit.
AIG said the board had a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to consider joining the suit, a move that Starr had demanded. But the board quickly decided not to join the suit.
"In considering and ultimately refusing the demand before us, the board of directors properly and fully executed our fiduciary and legal obligations to AIG and its shareholders," Robert S. "Steve" Miller, AIG's chairman, said Wednesday.
"America invested in 62,000 AIG employees, and we kept our promise to rebuild this great company, repay every dollar America invested in us, and deliver a profit to those who put their trust in us," he continued. "To date, AIG has returned $205 billion to America, including a profit of $22.7 billion. We continue to thank America for its support."
AIG considers joining lawsuit against U.S. over bailouts
Sale of last AIG shares brings U.S. bailout profit to $22.7 billion
AIG might get special oversight as potential financial system risk


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HealthWise KnowledgeBase
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Friday's concert will feature eight bands, all with a different sound. A local band, "Ballroom Ballroom", says their music is more indy rock, while some of the other bands will be more country pop and hard rock. But Friday's concert isn't just about playing music, it gives the bands a chance to connect with their audience and share their beliefs. Brett Callaway of "Close Your Eyes" says his band will use Friday's concert as a witness opportunity. "We can reach kids who would never step inside a church and we can just love on them and give them a reason to hope." Callaway warns that the concert will be drug, alcohol and conflict free, and they intend to keep it that way, "we'll escort someone out of the concert if we have to". The concert will be at Cobb Park's activities center and doors will open at 5:30. Bands featured: Close Your Eyes The Last Starfighter Ballroom Ballroom The Urgency and The Exit Once Called Ghosts The News Can Wait Swing The Lead Speeding On Silo
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New Art Academy 3DS
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Learn and master new drawing, painting and artistic skills and show off your work in New Art Academy for Nintendo 3DS… See more
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Released on 28-Jul-2012
Discover creative skills you never knew you had with New Art Academy on Nintendo 3DS.
Packed with over 30 brand new lessons, New Art Academy will soon have you painting and drawing your own masterpieces that you'll be proud to show off to friends and family.
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[SECURITY] [DSA 2502-1] python-crypto security update Jun 24 2012 08:37PM Moritz Muehlenhoff (jmm debian org) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Debian Security Advisory DSA-2502-1 security (at) debian (dot) org [email concealed] http://www.debian.org/security/ Moritz Muehlenhoff June 24, 2012 http://www.debian.org/security/faq - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Package : python-crypto Vulnerability : programming error Problem type : remote Debian-specific: no CVE ID : CVE-2012-2417 It was discovered that that the ElGamal code in PythonCrypto, a collection of cryptographic algorithms and protocols for Python used insecure insufficient prime numbers in key generation, which lead to a weakened signature or public key space, allowing easier brute force attacks on such keys. For the stable distribution (squeeze), this problem has been fixed in version 2.1.0-2+squeeze1. For the unstable distribution (sid), this problem has been fixed in version 2.6-1. We recommend that you upgrade your python-crypto packages. After installing this update, previously generated keys need to be regenerated. Further information about Debian Security Advisories, how to apply these updates to your system and frequently asked questions can be found at: http://www.debian.org/security/ Mailing list: debian-security-announce (at) lists.debian (dot) org [email concealed] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/nejoACgkQXm3vHE4uylpcwQCgy8NI7uK5JDoG1wECP5DalcHJ Sh8AnArv97xwCBREhnhWhALGIDxEFiOO =c1sj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- [ reply ] |
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Over the course of the last 2 years, both here in Wisconsin and on the national scene, we have been treated to numerous concepts that have pitted one group of people against another all in the name of securing votes. For instance, the occupy movement is attempting divide the 1% against the 99% based on personal income. The Democratic Party attempted (both locally and nationally) to create a divide between Republican candidates and women. Those opponents to Voter ID bills have insisted that supporting such bills is akin to having literacy tests at the voting booths. Now we have a President using power not invested in the Executive Branch that creates a divide between the US Constitution and your morality.
Last week the President announced that he is side stepping Congress, the will of the people and granting amnesty to a certain population of illegal immigrants. Taking his ideas from the unsuccessful Dream Act, the administration will no longer be deporting people who:
- Came to the United States under the age of 16.
- Have continuously resided in the United States for at least five years preceding the date of the memorandum and are present in the United States on the date of the memorandum.
- Are currently in school, have graduated from high school, have obtained a general education development certificate, or are an honorably discharged veteran of the Coast Guard or Armed Forces of the United States.
- Have not been convicted of a felony offence, a significant misdemeanor offense, multiple misdemeanor offenses, or otherwise poses a threat to national security or public safety.
- Are not above the age of 30.
In doing this he has created a divide between those that feel the US is morally responsible for caring people who live in this country illegally and those who demand a President who respects the constitution and want lasting immigration reform.
Many on both sides of the aisle understand that deportation of 800k of immigrants (as most assume exist within this age group) is impractical and something in the style of the Dream Act is a good starting point. However, it has been cut short because it does little to stop the influx of new illegal immigrants. This is where the President is attempting to insert a battle over your morality into the equation.
The age group and lifestyles of the people listed in the Presidents Executive Order are younger individuals. There are dynamics at play within this age group that could have a broader effect on amnesty. You could have children attending school while living with their parents, who presumably would be over the age of 30, you have people with in the normal age of child bearing and a group may have little history and highly mobile. All of which can easily lead to more then the expected 800k currently residing in the US being granted visas. Why? Lets look at some examples that have been used in the past.
First case, let's assume we have an illegal immigrant in high school that live with their presumably illegal parents, who wants to toss parents out of the country while the child is left behind. This would also draw into play any siblings that fail to meet this criteria, can we justifiably deport them also? Second case, our illegal immigrant is now out of high school or college and has a job, in that time he or she has married and had kids. Of course the children born here belong here legally, but does the other parent or children that may not have been born in the US. Can we break up that family? Third, every Mexican with a dream of coming to the US now knows what must be accomplished or better yet, he knows what must be said to have been accomplished. What is the price for falsified school and/or employment records?
While the idea of solving our immigration problem becomes tantalizing, the President is using what he feels is your morality as a way to buy the votes of the Hispanics. He knows when one of these immigration scenarios makes the 24hr news cycle, those wishing to protect our country by the implementation of common sense immigration will be pitted against those asking were the morality is in sending someone back to Mexico. They will ask: "Don't all people have the right to a better life?", "How can you separate this family?", "Are you some kind of racist?". All the while completely ignoring the breach of constitution that is this Executive Order. Obama said as much:
In an interview with Univision television earlier this year, President Obama said that he can't just "waive away the laws that Congress put in place" and that "the president doesn't have the authority to simply ignore Congress and say, 'We're not going to enforce the laws that you've passed."'
So here is the new divide as created by the President, Democrats and the left in the America. They will exploit the problem of immigration, promising a solution they cannot uphold and subverting the will of the people in order to secure votes from Hispanics. Those mindful of the constitution will be told of the immorality and inhumanity of their position. Not unlike the false accusations of wealth creation in America, Republican hatred of women and those who are called racists for wanting to secure our voting process; US citizens expecting true immigration reform will be demonized.
James R Hoffa
8:03 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
It amazes me that we can deploy and bring back nearly 12 million of our armed forces during our active involvement in WWII, which lasted all of four years, but for some reason or another, we've had trouble containing our own borders and expelling those that have no right to be here over the last 30 years!
The only policy that makes sense all around is that if you're here illegally, then you're GONE as soon as you get caught, period - no exceptions!
Lyle Ruble
8:17 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...An interesting and well written blog, but I have some problems with your supposition and following logic.
I don't see the the "morality argument" as a problem. This argument has been used now for decades and has had very little impact on people's actions or positions. I really don't think it is a choice of morality verse constitutionality. The best argument put forth in support of the executive order is a rational utilitarian one. It is cheaper and easier to allow this group of individuals to become legal than continuing this charade of ignoring potentially good and productive citizens.
President Obama's executive order may or may not be unconstitutional. Even if it is ruled constitutional the congress can take it upon itself to pass a law vacating the executive order and replace it with something else.
Therefore, it is neither a issue of morality verse the constitution or even a constitutional issue.
J. B. Schmidt
11:58 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
I think the problem lies in the fact that the morality of the country, which the people have a chance to influence with their vote, has be subverted by a president telling people in his administration to no longer follow the law.
Secondly, that this was done for no further reason the vote buying. If Obama had made this decision when he first came into office or directly after the congress voted down the dream act, I might find some respect in what he is doing.
The problem with allowing this group of citizens to just become legal is that could be a never ending amnesty program since you have no way to stop in the influx of new illegals. If the door remains open, we could repeat the process every 5 years and make any attempt at immigration control useless.
Lyle Ruble
6:46 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...What is the morality of the country? There are national normative values, but that doesn't necessarily translate into morality. The normative values are influenced by voters, but there is constant dickering over which values to affirm and which to not affirm. The issues that the president is addressing are matters concerning very practical matters and are also social justice issues. The action of an executive order is only taken when congress either refuses to act or can't act because of partisanship. This is the case with the "Dream Act". At this moment in time, illegal immigration is down because of large scale unemployment.
It is obvious to me and anyone else that the president choose this time for the E.O. for political reasons. Is he buying the Latino vote, sure he is. I think it is legitimate to criticize the timing and intent, but he is definitely doing the right thing. The same can be said for his new found support of same sex marriages, but again it is the right thing to do.
The long term solution to the problem is to start up a liberal guest worker program and to create severe penalties for those who employ illegals. I have been in meat packing plants when INS moved in and started loading illegals onto buses. The companies employing them were given warnings and this is a continuing process.
J. B. Schmidt
8:23 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
However, the voters decided what the national normative values were. The dream act does not have national support. Whether or not you think the President did the right thing is meaningless in our style of government. The president is using his authority to allow laws to not be enforced. If something like that is allowed, where does it end?
Lyle Ruble
2:37 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...It stops when congress passes legislation. This congress has gotten away with shutting everything down over ideological issues. Congress is the ultimate arbitrator over the laws passed, if they refuse to cooperate and pass laws, then the president has a duty to put in place regulations that continue to do the nation's business.
J. B. Schmidt
3:13 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Obama did not issue new laws nor did he issue an executive order renouncing any others. He simply is telling portions of his administration to ignore current laws on the books. Accepting that your leader has the ability to ignore laws (or allow his administration) is to accept a dictator. Congress has no effect on which laws the administration chooses to follow. Congress has spoken with the will of the people and said that the provisions Obama wants to ignore, are current law. Whether you or he find this to be the correct course of action is meaningless. For the Executive Branch of US to ignore one law is as dangerous as an Executive Branch that can ignore all laws.
Lyle Ruble
3:28 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...You need to look a little deeper into the issue of Executive Orders. It is highly controversial and the constitutionality has been questioned. You need to look at precedence. It could be used by a dictator, but congress does have the power to change the E.O. by passing a law overturning the specific E.O.
J. B. Schmidt
3:41 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
How would congress overturn this? Obama has not changed immigration law. The laws as passed are still in existence as the laws of the land. Obama is just telling his administration to ignore them, allowing immigration officials the luxury to deport or not deport illegals on a whim or allegiance. Congress has its hands tied. That is a dictator style move, to side step and/or eliminate the authority of Congress.
Lyle Ruble
3:44 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
@J.B. Schmidt...Congress could enforce the current law by taking it to the courts. The second is by passing a new law specifically addressing the breach of regulations. If the president continued not to enforce the law, then he can be impeached.
8:55 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Back in 2005 Jim Sensenbrenner was at the heart of the immigration issue. I attended one of his town hall meetings that year. His main point on the issue was that business fuels illegal immigration. As long as people want a nanny, cheap roof repair, labor, etc., we will have this issue.
Emotions aside, the cost to find and process illegal aliens is high in terms of price and effort. A relative worked for a fair sized company and learned that they employed illegal workers. Their names were changed on rosters, etc., about every 6 weeks. They earned less than half of what documented workers made. With this much effort put into hiding illegal workers, magnified by the number of businesses and households that use/exploit illegal workers, little cooperation could be expected.
James R Hoffa
9:33 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
@Bren -
Ok then, here is the solution to that situation: If a citizen gets caught knowingly harboring, hiding, protecting, employing, etc an illegal alien, then that person's citizenship is immediately and summarily revoked and they too are deported!
Problem solved!
Dirk Gutzmiller
11:43 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
Illegal immigration was fueled by business people, and some individuals, looking for cheap labor. These illegal sponsors were, by a great majority, Republicans. I find it ironic that the Republicans want to get real tough with those hard working people they once hired and employed. Use'em, then jerk'em. Republican morality.
Let that be a lesson to all those who buy into Republicans wanting to help the working man, or working woman, or any woman, or any child except their own..
J. B. Schmidt
12:00 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Ouch! That is even extreme for me. I can't justify a punishment that is more harsh then the one currently handed out for things like murder or child molestation. If you wish to include murderers or child molester in that deportation plane, then I am good with your plan.
J. B. Schmidt
12:04 am on Friday, June 22, 2012
Please site your source that Republicans are sponsoring more illegal via breaking immigration law in their business practice.
I can show you liberal socialist policy over and over that wishes to provide government money to illegals for things like medical care, schooling, housing and fully functioning rest stops on the dirt trials between the US and Mexican Border.
Which is more likely to sponsor illegals? The Republicans forcing them to work for a business doing manual labor or the Democrats giving everything for free.
9:44 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
After that, I'd really like to hear Dirk's take on the Republicans involvement with slavery.
Dirk Gutzmiller
12:39 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
@J.B. - You have your typical, ugly view of humanity. And your last resort defense of asking those opposing your view to cite their references, even when the facts are overwhelmingly accepted and obvious, displays a desperate, reclusive view of the outside world.
The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants came here for jobs, and those jobs were not with the government. Are you actually denying that?
They were mostly with private companies looking for cheap labor. Are you denying that? Most private companies are run by Republicans. Denying that?
Now that the Great Recession hit five years ago, many of these illegals are surplus.
Republican response: Toss'em, don't need'em, get'em out of here, blame the liberals baby.
When you spin and spin and spin, you get dizzy.
Dirk Gutzmiller
12:45 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
@Greg - Slavery. Once again, cheap labor imported by private companies and individuals. Then tossed into the refuse pile. .
2:02 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
Jim Sensenbrenner also blamed businesses for hiring illegals. The teeth were pulled out of the legislation that fined businesses heavily for being found using illegal workers during the Reagan administration (according to JS). Now it's a "cost of business" he said.
I asked him about the Bush administration's suspension of the prevailing wage laws in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina, and giving contracts to out of state businesses instead of local companies to help the area rebuild. Those out of state contractors subcontracted, and the employees of many of the subcontractors were illegal workers brought in primarily from Central America. Many of them stayed, creating a Hispanic population in the region that hadn't been there before. Sensenbrenner asserted that he was on record as not being in agreement with GWB on this issue.
So 8 years ago there was dissent between the radical wing of the GOP (Bush) and the traditional conservatives (Sensenbrenner).
Mr. Hoffa, it seems that hiring illegals is tied to greed. We cannot punish greed for this course of action without doing the same for Wall Street, can we? That would be hypocritical. There are millions of illegal aliens in this country. Barack Obama has been deporting far more of them than George W. Bush has, but I believe JS's estimate in 2005 was 20 million illegals in the U.S. What is the logical, best solution to this issue?
Johnny Blade
1:12 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
Stop all the freakin handouts .. and everyone is free to come here like ellis island. Where is the morality of forcing me by gun, jail or fines to pay for someone elses life
9:48 pm on Friday, June 22, 2012
I think to be naturalized, an immigrant needs to understand more about the Constitution and powers of Government than Obama does.
Dirk Gutzmiller
12:48 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
Greg - Good thing you were born in this Country. By your own standards, you would be forced to be an illegal alien to get into America..
2:12 am on Monday, June 25, 2012
I remember hearing about a study some years back about how many Americans would fail the immigration test. It was surprisingly high.
Immigration is important for our country, and I respect the people of other nations who follow their dream of American citizenship legally. As a teenager I was given the assignment of processing all of the paperwork for a relative by marriage who seeking their U.S. green card. Later, that experience came in handy when I actually worked with an immigration consulting firm. It's important to follow the rules carefully in filing papers in a timely manner, and the U.S. Government is on the whole very willing to work with immigrants who have not committed crimes in the U.S. or their home country and provide information as and when required, even if a visa has expired.
12:25 pm on Monday, June 25, 2012
J.B., agree with your analysis, the administration is just campaigning to secure support from its various constituencies. But that after all, is an essence of democracy. Granted we were lead to believe this president would be above such cynical things, but we've also heard the president is a very competitive person. So while the president's political behavior may be disappointing to some, it should hardly be surprising.
Regarding the two layers to the immigration question:
1) Moral: Should the child be held accountable for the sins of the parents?
2) Legality:
a. Enforce immigration laws at the borders
b. Eliminate incentives to break immigration law: prosecute employers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants, address the misuse of the constitutional amendment intended to insure the citizenship of former slaves (NOT citizenship for the children of foreign nationals born on US soil), penalize those who have entered this country illegally
The easy legal answer appears to be that the sins of the parents should be revisited on the children, but some will argue lax government enforcement of the borders and employment laws would appear to make our government complicit, and by extension all of us.
Politically I don't like what the president just did, but it's understandable, predictable. Regarding minor illegal immigrants, as you point out, it is a complicated policy issue, but morally, when do we require children to pay for their parent's sins?


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Contact Sports Desk: Call: 603-742-4455, Ext. 5512 / E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com You have 2 stories left before being redirected to Clickshare to login or register.H.S. soccer: STA relishes its underdog role
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DOVER — On paper, it looks like a slam-dunk ticket to the Division II championship game for the Hollis-Brookline High School boys soccer team. The No. 1 team in the state playing a Cinderella No. 12 in the semifinals? Thanks for coming, St. Thomas, and enjoy it while it lasts. |