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In accordance with federal regulations set forth by The Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, below is a summary of consumer information that must be made available to all students at Marygrove College. Each topic listed gives a brief description of the information that must be disclosed and explains how it can be obtained. If you need assistance obtaining information listed or you would like a paper copy, contact the Office of Financial Aid.
Current tuition and fee information can be found at http://marygrove.edu/future-students/financial-services/tuition-a-fees.html.
Financial aid comes in the form of grants, scholarships, work-study and loans. Your financial aid package may consist of any and all of these resources depending on a variety of factors. For information on the types of financial aid available, visit http://marygrove.edu/future-students/financial-aid/financial-aid-overview.html.
The financial aid process for Marygrove College can be found at http://marygrove.edu/current-students/financial-aid/financial-aid-process.html.
Method and Frequency of Disbursements
Financial Aid is disbursed your student account in different ways depending on the type of aid and other factors. The earliest date that aid is disbursed is the Friday following the end of the add/drop period for the semester.
Thereafter, aid will be disbursed:
Financial aid awards will require adjustment if you are not enrolled for the number of credits for which your aid was awarded.
Grants, scholarships, and loans administered by the Office of Scholarships and Financial Aid (OSFA) are first applied directly to your MGC student account to pay charges for tuition, fees, book card, residence hall, meal plan, insurance, and other MGC charges.
Students whose financial aid exceeds the charges on their MGC account will have a credit and will receive a refund. This refund will be mailed to your current address as listed in your MGC record within 10 days after the credit appears on your MGC account.
Private Scholarship Checks
If you are awarded a private scholarship check and it is sent directly to MGC, it will be applied directly to your MGC account after all terms and conditions of the scholarship are met. The donor will be contacted if there is a need for additional information. The funds will be applied one half for the Fall semester and one half for the Winter semester unless otherwise specified by the donor.
If the scholarship check is sent directly to you but is made out to MGC you should take or send it to the MGC Business Office for processing.
If the scholarship check is sent directly to you and is made co-payable to you and MGC, endorse the check and take or send it to the MGC Business Office.
If the scholarship is made payable to you only, it is your responsibility to report this resource to the OSFA.
This information can be found at http://www.marygrove.edu/current-students/financial-aid/loans.html.
Carl Perkins Loan Program
Marygrove College has access to the Carl Perkins Loan Fund. This is a low interest federal loan program (5%) with cancellation benefits. Funds are only available to students who are:
Priority is given to students who:
The amount of the award is limited to a maximum $5500 per year or tuition and fee charges remaining after all other aid is applied, whichever is less.
This information can be found at http://www.marygrove.edu/current-students/financial-aid/grants.html
Work-study programs are available to needy students. The federal or state government subsidizes the wages earned by the student.
Students must file a FAFSA and must indicate an interest in work study by answering "1" or "3" for question 26. Students who indicate an interest in work study and who have eligibility will have work-study included on the financial aid award. If you do not have work study on your financial aid award, you may request it in the Enrollment Center.
A number of work-study positions are available for eligible Marygrove students. ISIDORE shows all Marygrove College available work-study positions and the rate of pay. The current range for pay rates is $7.15 to $9.15 per hour. Students must have a login and password to view postings.
Students are not permitted to work more than 15 hours per week. Student schedules are arranged with their supervisor. Students are paid bi-weekly. Students must turn in legibly and fully completed time sheets by 9:30 AM on the Friday ending the pay period. Students who submit late time sheets will not be paid until the following pay date. Students may pick up their pay check from their work study supervisor. Pay checks not retrieved within one week of the pay date are mailed to the student's current mailing address.
This information can be found at www.nslds.ed.gov.
This information can be found at www.nslds.ed.gov.
This information can be found at http://www.marygrove.edu/current-students/financial-aid/satisfactory-academic-progress-sap.html
Federal and state governments mandate the establishment and enforcement of a satisfactory academic progress (SAP) policy. Failure to maintain SAP requires the student receive financial aid on a probationary basis or that financial aid eligibility be cancelled all together until SAP as defined by the Office of Scholarships and Financial Aid (OSFA) is met. Students have the right to appeal their status if they have mitigating circumstances they believe prevented them from maintaining or achieving SAP. Students are notified when they are not meeting SAP and told what they must do for continued aid eligibility. Undergraduate students are considered to be making SAP and are financial aid eligible if they:
Students who consistently fail to meet this standard may jeopardize their eligibility for financial aid, including student loans and work study. The Office of Scholarships and Financial Aid (OSFA) will notify you when your eligibility for financial aid is in jeopardy. The notification will include what you must do to regain eligibility or avoid losing eligibility.
The OSFA SAP policy may differ from that of Marygrove College. While a student may be considered in "good standing" with Marygrove College, they may not necessarily be making Financial Aid SAP.
If you cannot complete a course or if you cannot attend any courses for which you registered, you must withdrawal ("drop") officially from the class or from the College.
The date on which the Registrar's Office receives and signs the withdrawal request will be the official date of withdrawal and will determine the amount of any adjustment of tuition, fees and financial aid after classes have begun.
All refunds will first be applied to any indebtedness which you may have with the College.
If you need to withdraw from one or more classes, you must obtain a withdrawal form from the Registrar's Office or Enrollment Center.
If you need to withdraw from all classes for the semester, you must contact the Office of Academic Advising and Career Services to complete a "Withdrawal from College" form.
If you withdraw from the College and are the recipient of Title IV funds, they will be subject to the prorated calculations for determining the refund.
The College will use the following table to determine your refundable tuition and fees.
Withdrawal from Fall and Winter
10 - 15 Week Classes
First Week: 100%
Second Week: 50%
Third Week: 25%
Fourth Week or after: 0%
5 - 9 Week Classes
First Week: 80%
Second Week: 35%
Third Week: 0%
Fourth Week: 0%
1 - 4 Week Classes
First Week: 75%
Second Week: 25%
Third Week: 0%
Fourth Week or after: 0
Withdrawal from Summer
10 - 15 Week Classes
First Week: 100%
Second Week: 50%
Third Week: 25%
Fourth Week or after: 0%
5 - 9 Week Classes
First Week: 80%
Second Week: 35%
Third Week: 0%
Fourth Week: 0%
1 - 4 Week Classes
First Week: 75%
Second Week: 25%
Third Week: 0%
Fourth Week or after: 0
Refunds are calculated on the basis of the number of class sessions scheduled to be completed at the time of the withdrawal, not the number of class sessions attended by the student.
If you do not officially drop your classes within the specified add/drop period or withdraw before the designated deadlines (see Academic Calendar), you are responsible for full tuition and fees for these courses.
Students may be eligible to receive a refund check from Marygrove College when payments posted to their student account exceed tuition and fees charged. Student can log onto the Webadvisor and check the Account Summary link to confirm their refund eligibility.
For Example:
If posting of Title IV Financial Aid (Pell, SEOG, & Stafford Loans) results in a credit balance on your Student Account. A refund check will be mailed to your permanent address within 14 days of the aid posting to your student account.
If your credit balance is a result of a Parent PLUS loan posting to your account, a check will be mailed to the borrower of the loan within 14 days.
Refund checks are mailed to the permanent address that you have provided to Marygrove College. If your address is incorrect, you must show proper documentation through the Registrar's Office.
All refunds are reviewed for eligibility prior to processing. If you become ineligible for Financial Aid, all balances due to the reduction or loss of Financial Aid funds are the responsibility of the student.
It is College policy that all refunds are mailed to the current address on file. Refund checks CANNOT be picked up at the Business Office for any reason.
Program costs vary, but many are comparable to spending a semester living and studying at Marygrove. Some programs may even be less expensive. You can apply for study abroad scholarships to help cover the cost of your program. And, all of the financial aid that you receive for study on campus (except for work-study) can be applied toward study abroad. The OSA can help you with this process.
Students eligible for financial aid grants and loans from state and federal sources can defer tuition payments based upon acceptance and receipt of these awards. If, for any reason, these awards are not forthcoming within a reasonable length of time, the full balance of tuition and fees is due and payable upon the demand of the College. Should it be necessary to place a delinquent account with a collection agency, all fees — including reasonable attorney fees — become the responsibility of the student.
Tuition and fees are payable in full by the last day of the add/drop period (see tuition due dates below). For students pre-registering for classes, statements will be mailed to their permanent address approximately 4-6 weeks before classes begin. It is the responsibility of the student to maintain their permanent address with the Registrar's Office. All e-mail communication will go to the student's Marygrove e-mail address only.
Students MUST pay for the entire cost of the semester by the end of the first week of classes (See Tuition Due Dates). Upon registering for each term, students must enter into a Tuition Management System (TMS) payment plan for any tuition or fee not covered by financial aid. If you intend to spread payments out over the semester, these payment options involve additional charges and fees.
If you are in dispute about your federal student loan, contact the Federal Student Aid Ombudsman Group as a last resort. The Omfudsman Group is dedicated to helping resolve disputes related to Direct Loans, Federal Family Education Loans (FFEL) Program loans, Guaranteed Student Loans, and Perkins Loans.
For online assistance: http://studentaid.gov/replay-loans/disputes/prepare
By telephone: 877-577-2575
By fax: 202-275-0549
By mail:
U.S. Department of Education
FSA Ombudsman Group
830 First St., N.E., Mail Stop 5144
Washington, D.C. 20202-5144
Patricia Chaplin Director, Enrollment Services and Financial Aid
(313) 927-1249
Julie Wilson – Associate Director, Enrollment Services and Financial Aid
(313) 927-1553
Roxanna Reeves – Financial Aid Officer
(313) 927-1248
Chiquita McKenzie – Financial Aid Officer
(313) 927-1552
Stephanie Durham – Financial Aid Officer
(313) 927-1247
Jill Moore – Financial Aid Specialist
(313) 927-1292
Tendai Mumbiro – Enrollment Representative
(313) 927-1750
Hattie Barnes – Enrollment Representative
(313) 927-1754
Jo Fletcher – Enrollment Representative
(313) 927-1752
Shavon Wiggins – Enrollment Representative
(313) 927-1266
Annual Notice to Students: The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (F.E.R.P.A.) of 1974
Annually, Marygrove College informs students of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974, as amended. This Act, with which the institution intends to comply fully, was designated to protect the privacy of educational records. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) afford students certain rights with respect to their education records.
These rights include:
Source: AACRAO
Marygrove College is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC), a commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA), the largest of six regional associations, recognized by the United States Secretary of Education and the Committee on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation, whose mission is to establish standards for institutions of higher education and to ensure continuous improvement of programs.
To maintain its accreditation, every ten years Marygrove College conducts an intensive self-study following NCA's criteria. Our last review was in 2007, which was very successful. For each review, we are required to conduct an intensive self-study and generate a report for the HLC. The Commission, in turn, will send a team of evaluators to assess what we have reported. This team will make their own report to the Commission with their recommendation.
Accreditation is enormously important to our institution for two reasons. First, accreditation is the mark of a quality educational institution. And second, every institution in the United States must be accredited for students to receive federal financial aid such as Pell Grants and Work Study funding. Without accreditation, institutions will not get that funding, and neither will their students.
To review copies of our latest review, visit http://www.marygrove.edu/home/who-we-are/accreditation.html.
Information on the degree (undergraduate and graduate) and non-degree programs offered at Marygrove College can be found in the Academics section of our website.
There are 3 buildings on campus that house classrooms, smart classrooms, laboratories, studios, etc.
A directory of faculty can be found on our website under the Faculty/Staff tab.
You can begin the process of joining other transfer students by completing a few simple steps.
First, request that an official transcript be sent to Marygrove College, Office of Admissions, from each college or university you have attended. If you have earned fewer than 24 semester credits, a high school transcript is also required.
For admission to Marygrove, your college transcripts must show a minimum of a C (2.0) or better cumulative grade point average. Most of our transfer students excel in their studies and qualify for academic scholarships at Marygrove. However, students who have been academically dismissed from other academic institutions may not be considered eligible for admission to Marygrove College.
If you attended a community college and do not have an associate's degree, you may need to submit proof of your high school graduation (i.e., diploma, transcript of GED scores) to be eligible for financial aid.
Generally, Marygrove will accept college level courses from accredited institutions on transfer if you achieved a C (2.0 grade point average) or better grade in the course and if the classes are comparable to course offerings and programs of study offered at Marygrove.
You need to be certain you have included all colleges attended on your application. Any college or institution not listed on the application at the time of admission will not be considered for transfer credit later.
NOTE: Failure to disclose all colleges/universities attended may result in immediate disqualification from admissions process.
There are some differences in the number of transfer credits that Marygrove will accept depending on the kind of institution previously attended. If you attended only two-year colleges (community colleges), you may transfer a maximum of 64 total semester hours of credit. If you have attended only four-year colleges or universities, you may transfer a maximum of 98 semester hours of credit, but the maximum number of transferable lower division credit hours (100 or 200 level or their equivalent) is 84.
If you have attended both two-year and four-year institutions, you may transfer a maximum of 98 semester hours of credit from all institutions attended. A maximum of 84 credit hours of lower division courses will be accepted and a maximum of 64 credits will be accepted from the two-year institutions.
Once you are accepted and enrolled at Marygrove, you will need to complete at least 30 semester hours of credit at Marygrove. Of the 128 credit hours needed for graduation, at least 36 must be upper- level courses (300 or 400). You will also need to fulfill the other requirements for a bachelor's degree.
Interested students can obtain general education and academic program transfer guides from the College and/or Marygrove Admissions Department.
All applicants must submit an official copy of their high school transcript completed by the last high school attended, along with the results of your ACT examination or your general education diploma (GED) transcript.
For more information, please contact:
(313) 927-1427 or
At Marygrove, the only thing more important than you education is your safety. We are blessed with a peaceful, beautiful, and friendly campus — and we take every precaution to keep it that way. The Campus Safety Office, located in the Liberal Arts Building, handles all safety and security issues, from crime/injury/accident reporting to lost and found and parking stickers. For an outline of criminal offenses on campus or for more information, visit http://www2.marygrove.edu/home/campus/campus-safety.html.
Routine immunizations should be current prior to your arrival on campus. Immunizations are not a College requirement. Marygrove College recommends that students come to school fully immunized to protect their health. Immunizations are one of the most effective public health measures in preventing communicable diseases and adult vaccines are recommended by the CDC. www.cdc.gov/vaccines
The recommended immunizations include:
Mandatory Health Insurance Waiver Form
Health Insurance is mandatory at Marygrove College when staying in the residence hall.
NOTE: All students are automatically billed for the student health insurance. Once the waiver statement is completed and submitted, the charge for the student health insurance will be removed.
All student-athletes must have proof of medical insurance and a physical examination prior to being allowed to practice or compete within the intercollegiate athletic program. Please contact the athletic department for more details.
State of Michigan website: www.michigan.gov
It is the intent of Marygrove College Library that all members of the college community adhere to the provisions of the United States Copyright Law (Title 17, United States Code, Sect. 101, et seq.). The following policy statements and guidelines constitute a manual for anyone at the College who wishes to reproduce works that are protected by copyright, or anyone wishing to place protected works on reserve in the library. Since copyright protection applies to a variety of creative works - printed materials, sound recordings, video recordings, visual artworks, computer software, and others - the manual has been constructed to address issues related to particular types of media.
Members of the Marygrove College community who willfully disregard the copyright policy do so at their own risk and assume all liability.
In cases of plagiarism or cheating at Marygrove:
Marygrove College maintains standards of academic excellence. The faculty and administration expect that students will conduct themselves with honor in their academic work. Marygrove does not tolerate any form of academic dishonesty, plagiarism or cheating. Students will be held accountable for any form of academic misconduct under the terms that appear below. Plagiarism means to present the ideas, words or images of someone else as one's own. It is a general term that covers a number of serious academic problems, such as:
In cases of plagiarism or cheating at Marygrove:
In cases involving penalties of failing a course or expulsion from the College, the Dean will schedule a consultation with the student and the instructor(s) involved. The Dean of Student Affairs may be requested by the student, faculty member or Dean to be present as an objective observer at any such conferences. The student will also be informed of this decision by mail.
If the Dean receives two notifications of academic dishonesty for the same student, a consultation will be scheduled with the student, the Dean, and the Dean of Student Affairs and serious academic consequences will be assigned.
The student has the right to request an appeal at any stage of these processes through the regular academic appeal procedure that appears in the Marygrove College Undergraduate and Graduate Catalogs.
The Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool is brought to you by the Office of Postsecondary Education of the U.S. Department of Education. This analysis cutting tool was designed to provide rapid customized reports for public inquiries relating to equity in athletics data. The data are drawn from the OPE Equity in Athletics Disclosure Website database. This database consists of athletics data that are submitted annually as required by the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act (EADA), via a Web-based data collection, by all co-educational postsecondary institutions that receive Title IV funding (i.e., those that participate in federal student aid programs) and that have an intercollegiate athletics program.
Access the The Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool below.
In accordance with requirements issued by the U.S. Department of Education, Marygrove College is "providing its students or prospective students with contact information for filing complaints with its accreditor and with its state approval or licensing entity and any other relevant State official or agency that would appropriately handle a student's complaint." This information is now part of the standard Consumer Information and annual disclosure procedure of Marygrove College.
SHEEO State Complaint Process Links
Should it be necessary to place a delinquent account with a collection agency, the student will be responsible for all collection, interest, late and legal fees.
Should it be necessary to place a delinquent account with a collection agency and the student is a minor, the parents/guardian will be responsible for all collection, interest, late and legal fees.


text:
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More details will be posted soon here on the forum, and if you haven't already, be sure to create your free membership so that you'll be able to participate. It won't cost you a thing, but bring your earplugs...
We are in progress on confirming a date that both Mick and Greg can schedule an online chat here on the Music TalkBack forum. Keep checking back for details for date and time confirmation, if you haven't already, it's best if you also sign up for the NUGE Letter mailing list so that you'll receive updates direct to your inbox.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Frans's future remains uncertain
23 Aug 2010
Peter de Villiers is planning to discuss Frans Steyn's inclusion in the Springboks' World Cup squad with Racing Metro.
Steyn cut an impressive figure at Monday's training session, out-booting team-mates Morne Steyn and Butch James with consummate ease. He played in Racing's defeat to Montpellier last Friday and has been cleared to feature for the Boks in the remaining Tri-Nations Tests.
While team doctor Craig Roberts is yet to receive a full medical report from the French club, he can confirm the injury is nothing but a 'lammie' and Steyn is ready to play. Whether Steyn plays for the Boks beyond the Tri-Nations is an issue that's yet to be resolved.
'Those discussions are on the cards for the next few months,' De Villiers told keo.co.za. 'I had planned to go to France to speak to Frans, but I just haven't had the time. I will go and talk to his coach as well as the owner of his club about his availability. I will do the same with the coaches of BJ Botha [Ulster] and Butch James [Bath].
'There can't be any miscommunication. We can't have what happened before the Wales Test [in June, where James was withheld by Bath] happen again. We've learned from the disruptions of the past. I need to get my ducks in a row.'
The relationship between Steyn and De Villiers has been strained since the young fullback departed for France at the end of the 2009 Tri-Nations. De Villiers has hit back at criticism around this issue, and cited Steyn's agent as the primary stumbling block.
Speaking about their present relationship, De Villiers was reluctant to say that everything is hunky dory.
'This whole storm around Frans is about miscommunication. I've had a nice chat to him since he's arrived in South Africa and he understands his role in the next two Tests.
'It's a good thing you can't see people's hearts. You can't see what's inside, you can only see what's on the surface. It's like some people [the media] who smile in press conferences but then you see what's really in their hearts when you read the paper.
'Frans is interacting well with the others, but I think it's a bit premature to say he's happy.'
De Villiers confirmed that he hasn't softened his stance on selecting overseas players, and that he will consider local players before those based abroad. However, he added that quality flyhalves and fullbacks are in short supply in this country, a fact that leads to the exploration of European options.
'We struggle to find many in that [Test] class. There are still too many empty boxes, and with Frans, we tick more boxes.'
By Jon Cardinelli, in Pretoria
20 Comments
23 Aug 2010, 13:24 pmThe only issue to be overcome is snors own ego-trip. So far it has cost the 3N, including a good klap at soccer-city where he surely felt a right ***.
Specially after handing the game to NZ by replacing Hougard with MacD-man Januarie at the end.
FSteyn in bok team from game one would have given us a different edge, and we certainly could have taken 1 or 2 of those away matches. It should be enough to have tilted the scales.
I've no doubt was he there on Saturday we'd be smiling now. Even snor.
But that how expensive a coaches ego-trips are to the fans.
Farkin idiot.
23 Aug 2010, 13:30 pmNot just FB's and 10′s we're short of. We're pretty short of wings too.
The pick-any-black-player-on-the-wing policy is coming back to haunt us. The only wingers in the running at the moment who can tackle are Habana (yes he sometimes rushes up when he shouldn't) and Gio. Oh, and in Div's universe, Jean and Hougaard too. JPP is just an embarassment on defence. We need Frans not just because he's way our best FB but also so Gio can play on the wing instead of JPP.
23 Aug 2010, 13:31 pmWe need a change more at 10 than 15.
And frankly, Snor could do worse than sub Habana for F Steyn for this weekend.
23 Aug 2010, 13:36 pmfrans will make a difference, but we should look further than that.
j smit must go.
matfield must rest.
spies has had his chance, off the pace (excuse the pun)
hougaard must stay at 9.
morne must be given a rest.
steyn at 15.and now for the big one, we must stop kicking the ball away.
23 Aug 2010, 14:34 pmPDV's had to beg FS on bended knee to come to his rescue…
23 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm@TheTackler(TheTackler)-5: FS won't save us. The problem is not at 15.
23 Aug 2010, 15:55 pm"De Villiers told keo.co.za. 'I had planned to go to France to speak to Frans, but I just haven't had the time."
No, you promised, bloody unprofessional (which goes well in most circumstances seeing as it is a South African team, but coupled with SARU's incompetence, and you've got a media maelstrom.
De Villiers confirmed that he hasn't softened his stance on selecting overseas players……………We struggle to find many in that [Test] class. There are still too many empty boxes, and with Frans, we tick more boxes."
Which is another way of saying that there are no principles that PDivvy stands by, and that he and his cronies are incapable of utilizing South Africa's depth.
23 Aug 2010, 15:59 pmFrans won't patch things up here. It's not as if Morne's kicking at posts was a problem. It's creativity that is lacking for the backs. Morne keeps kicking posession away.
Frans cannot do much there, besides he is even dumber than Morne! People are just dreaming about 60 meter penalties to save their bacon, but that is not a look term sollution.
23 Aug 2010, 16:00 pmlong term
23 Aug 2010, 16:01 pm@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-2:
not sure what games you were watching, but aplon inability to tackle was the real problem, yes he made one good hit but was nothing more than a slight hindrance for most tackls excluding the 5 he missed totally…
JPP amde a certain try siving tackle and was solid on defense and was actually looking like a player that was eager to play and look for work.what a huge mistake to take hougaard off as well, man ricky is just useless and fear if he is in the WC squad..
JS might have missed the tackle, but it was one dim Morne who was supposed to be in that channel, Bring back Butch and Frans
and sommer Pienaar on the bench as well.spies has been ineffective long enough now, time to bring in some brilliance rather than just 'smash it' or lately trying to smah it… Kanko is a much better bet.
and what a difference Juan made on flank, wow we missed him. sam akkas happened when he was replaced, test rugby seems jsut a step to far for Louw
23 Aug 2010, 16:02 pm@TheBoksAreBack(bringbacktheboks)-1: Jy praat k@k. Who missed the tackle? John Smit, and how exactly was Frans Steyn's kicks at goal going to be better than Morne who didn't miss once?
Frans is not an intelligent rugby player. He has a big boot. Dis al.
23 Aug 2010, 16:11 pmHas Snor not heard of a video conference, heck whom I kidding!
The fool cannot even use a mobile phone nor speak coherently.
23 Aug 2010, 16:19 pm@rossoneri(rossoneri)-8: @rossoneri(rossoneri)-11: I agree with you on all points. Frans has a role to play but to consider him as the saviour that will redeem all is mad.
We do lack creativity in midfield, and Steyn doesn't have that. But he does do the basics well.
Just a crazy idea, but if Morne is solid and pretty much just a boot, wouldn't he make a good fullback?
On the creativity front we need options, JDV in form gives you some of that, so does FDP. Neither are working, for different reasons.
I must say that I'd hate to be a selector at the moment, because the really vexing problems have no easy solution.
23 Aug 2010, 18:02 pmFace it lads we have all the talent in the world, we showed it last year and with the super 14. There is only one factor that is withholding us from performing and that is management! Poor player management with senior players and just plain poor coaching. PDiv doesn't have a clue, no tactics and no plan. He has been found out and he doesn't know how to fix it. Players are out of form because they don't respect the coach which means the coach doesn't have control over any of the players. If we had a coach that was worth his salt we would have used all this abundance in experience and get the best out of the players when it is needed. I say if PDiv loves rugby he should put his ego aside and retire while we have a little time to salvage something for next year's world cup. I still think we can win if the players are fit and we have more than one game plan.
23 Aug 2010, 20:47 pmIn a totally unrelated sad event
Riot at rugby match leaves 10 year old dead.
THE 10-year-old son of a former Eastern Province rugby boss was killed and more than 20 fans injured in chaotic scenes after a clash between rival rugby fans in Uitenhage at the weekend.
Bevan, the son of former EP Rugby chief executive Philip Joseph, died when stampeding spectators pushed over the wall at the bottom of the Uitenhage Central sports field pavilion in a bid to flee after being pelted with bottles.
Keen rugby player Bevan would have turned 11 tomorrow.
About 6000 fans had gathered at the sports field on Saturday afternoon to watch the game between Progress and Gardens.
When the final whistle blew at 5pm with Progress running out 15-10 winners, alcohol bottles were hurled between supporters.
Bevan's devastated father compared the incident to a "war zone".
"As the game finished the players on the field started to fight, leading to supporters throwing glass bottles and at one another on the pavilion.
"It was crazy and all the people on the pavilion tried to run to the bottom so that they could get away from the bottles that were flying everywhere," Joseph said from his Mountain View, Uitenhage, home yesterday.
"People were jumping over the wall at the bottom of the stand to get away which is when it broke and fell on top of Bevan.
"While the game was on, Bevan and other children were watching and playing on the grass between the field and the pavilion.
"Once the game finished the bottles started to fly and we think one hit him on the head which is when he fell and the wall fell on him."
Joseph said he did not witness the incident but was alerted after someone yelled at him saying that his son was trapped under the rubble. "It was chaos and I started running towards him when some people stopped to lift the bricks so we could get him out," he said.
"While people were holding parts of the wall up, Lionel (Joseph's older son) managed to pull him out from the rubble while I ran and got the car so that we could rush him to hospital." Lionel, 15, carried his brother to the car and held him in his arms while their father drove them to Cuyler Clinic.
"There was blood everywhere and Lionel was trying to talk to Bevan and get some sort of response but he was just was not responding to anything," said Joseph.
"At hospital the doctors came to me and told me that he had passed on."
Bevan was a Grade 5 pupil who played scrumhalf at Muir College Primary in Uitenhage.
Joseph described him as a child with a "passion" for rugby. "We are trying to encourage the youth to take part in rugby instead of turning to crime and violence and now something like this happens and my son gets taken away," he said.
"It is really sad and my entire family is devastated."
EP Rugby chief executive Anele Pamba, who went to the sports field shortly after the tragedy, said the union "strongly condemned this type of behaviour". Police were investigating.
"From our side all management representatives are going to meet in the near future to decide the way forward."
The Herald team visited the grounds yesterday and saw pieces of glass and alcohol bottles scattered around the pavilion.
Numerous spectators who watched the game returned to see the damage and recover some of the items that were left behind in what they described as a hasty escape.
One Progress supporter, who declined to be named, described the entire incident as "something from the movies".
He said that bottles were allegedly initially thrown by fans of beaten side Gardens sitting next to Progress supporters in the pavilion.
"As the whistle blew, the bottles just flew and we all started running off the pavilion to get away," he said.
"They first threw the bottles at the roof and when the glass shattered and landed on everyone we started to run."
As the Progress supporters fled in their droves, the Gardens' fans allegedly started throwing bottles.
"It was complete madness and something that I never want be in again," the supporter said.
"There was glass everywhere and people were screaming and trying to run away."
Another supporter, who has been watching games at the ground for 15 years, said that there was usually security at the gates to stop spectators from bringing alcohol inside, "but at this game there was nothing".
Spectators said that around the same time another fight erupted between supporters on the opposite side of the field.
"They were stabbing and hitting one another with the legs of the chairs," he said.
"That was finally sorted out when the final whistle blew and I walked back to the pavilion where it was complete chaos."
Police spokesman Warrant Officer Marianette Olivier said the police were alerted by panicking supporters.
"We received phone calls from people at the game and responded," she said.
"But by the time we arrived the actual fight had stopped and there were only injured people.
"Ambulances came and transported the injured while others were taken to hospitals in private vehicles.
"We know of 20 injured spectators at Cuyler Clinic while other patients were taken to other hospitals," she said.
Olivier said anyone with video footage should come forward so that it could be used in the investigation.
A case of culpable homicide is being investigated -
23 Aug 2010, 20:48 pmSad to say this is what EC club rugby and too a large degree WP club rugby (though in the past) is all about. Thankfully there had been very little thuggery in Wp club rugby recently
23 Aug 2010, 20:55 pm@sparticus(sparticus)-16: thats a very very sad story, my condolences go out to the family…
23 Aug 2010, 20:56 pm@sparticus(sparticus)-15: terrible sad story.
23 Aug 2010, 21:15 pmThanks Poppa69 and while I have the chance I wanted to say to you and Cane both – congrats on a awesome Trinations you guys copped a lot of flak last year and you sticked it out!! Respect.
23 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm@sparticus(sparticus)-19: cheers mate… Ive been involved in my fair share of mudslinging too…so guilt is on both sides lol..
end of the day, there is a healthy underlying respect from both sides, and after a test match like this weekends its not hard to see why..
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Thursday August 18, 2011 03:28
Movie Quotes: Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey
This post is a part of 90s Month. Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey is the sequel to Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. Bill & Ted are slacker, wannabe musicians. In the first film they traveled through time. In this follow up they travel to the afterlife, awesome! This is the sequel that I always bring [...]
- Category: 90s Month, Movie Quotes, Movies/TV, Music
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text: Brin makes a good point about the talent of his team. Zack, Brin and Tyler could pretty much run all over most teams in the crhl with their talent. That is not knocking the other teams, its just a respect shown to those players. On the otherhand, OCC is a community college. Here is cali it is 11 bux a unit for community college and you only need 6 units for Division 3 status from CRHL am I right? Brin, remember that not every team gets to hand pick their team and if you're telling me that you guys did not have this planned for a while, you're full of it. I know your coach Dave is a very smart coach. I am sure he had everything figured out well before the season started. Is it wrong? no, but you guys have an advantage over schools like RIT. RIT is a very good school and is hard to get into unless you have good grades. Boston University is hard to get into too. Remember that these schools have academic standards that OCC does not have. I have a few friends at OCC so I know. Don't be so cocky. As much as California dominates at NARCh, we don't really do as well at CRHL finals and until we do, regardless of talent, we all have no room to talk because in the end talk is cheap and results are results. OCC won when? oh thats right, you haven't yet. I do wish you the best though as I have no ill will towards you. Every time I have played against the Predators you guys were really chill.


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necr0blivion wrote:Never say never, but I think that efforts would be wasted on an upgrade kit. Just release a newer, larger version Galvatron. X-Transbots teased a whole new figure, Tyrant, which I believe has been cancelled. Oddly enough, there have been some pretty interesting add-on kits or customs using the WFC Megatron or TFPrime Megatron as a base figure for Galvy.
Also, as pointed out already - if there were an add-on kit for Classics/Henkei Galvatron, what would be the purpose for alt mode? Both Rodimus Prime and Ultra Magnus had trailers, but Galvatron was just a laser gun not a tank as the figure is made.
Well as I said earlier I think they could use the armor to make him transform into his proper G1 cannon instead of a tank ya know?
I wasn't aware of an add on kit for war for cyber Meg's though. Sounds like it might be awesome if done right.
Is this out yet, who makes it and what of this matrix mr beast prowl spoke of?
Thanks guys!


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Discover how to intercept network traffic (IP packets) by putting a socket in promiscuous mode.
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Learn how to use a mailslot to broadcast information over a network.
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MFC Integration with the Windows Transactional File System (TxF)
The Transactional File System (TxF), which allows access to an NTFS file system to be conducted in a transacted manner through extensions to the Windows SDK API. MFC 10, has been extended to support TxF and related technologies. This support allows existing MFC applications to be easily extended to support kernel transactions.
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DUI Victims Are Not Always Strangers
Summer brings with it many opportunities for friends and family to get together for cookouts, concerts, and other festivities. Like it or not, many of these events include alcohol. Because drinking often causes people to make bad choices, it is important that the crucial choices, such as a designated driver, be made before the drinking begins.
I recently read this article that speaks about a group of friends who made some bad decisions which lead to the deaths of two of the friends. I was reminded of a similar experience when my best friend's younger brother was driving with some friends in his truck and was involved in a very serious accident. Fortunately, there were no permanent injuries to any of those involved, but the accident served as a wake-up call to my friend's brother.
In these situations, everyone involved suffers. The families of the deceased feel that their relative was blameless in the tragedy, but the reality is that bad choices were made by passengers and driver. The cost is unbelievably high for everyone. The best way to avoid this tragedy is to make better decisions, such as not getting behind the wheel if you have had too much to drink.


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Quote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081126/ap_ ... astro_penn What do you guys think? Also keep in mind I'm not an admirer of Raul. I just have an avatar of him because I want to be different. We have beaten you to the moon, but you have beaten us in sausage making.- Nikita Khrushchev Quote: Methods! Raul is a CIA spy!! Seriously though, I cant see Obama ever stopping the blockade. Saying they'd only do so if Cuba freed "political prisonors" is rediculous. What about these people? America have alot of "political prisonors" of there own so surely there regime is just as bad?! "The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win."
George Bush said he'd only end the blockade if Cuba had a multiparty government. Actually they came up with a whole "transition" plan that was basically Americanizing it. I think I made a topic about it...
http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=38634 The political prisoner thing is slightly less ridiculous to the point where just maybe Obama believes it. Also, I love it when the news makes up crap for how people are widely seen. When Raul came to power BBC said he was seen as more violent and tyrannical. Then he released political prisoners, and BBC said he was seen as more lenient. Now we have some minor but exaggerated reforms, and he's "widely seen" as pragmatic. Media is just reinforcing itself...
The real issue is what effect lifting the blockade will have on Cuba. We have seen one after another socialist centrally planned economies open up to trade and then collapse as a result.
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo
That's assuming an end to the embargo would mean completely open trade (or near enough to it) which wouldn't necessarily be the case.
Quote: Vietnam and China are examples of socialist centrally planned economies opening up to trade, from the 1970s to the early 1980s. They have not collapsed, though currently they could at best be called market socialist economies. The CPEs of Eastern Europe collapsed as a result of internal unrest and the abrogation of the Brezhnev Doctrine, rather than due to trade, though Poland, Hungary and Romania were hit hard by the international debt crisis in the early 1980s, exacerbating their socialist governments' problems in the late 1980s. I agree with your apprehension over the lifting of the blockade. Cuba has used it as a reason for its dire economic situation, and while this certainly is legitimate, I doubt that those in the leadership who have taken a historical perspective of fraternal nations experiences don't know how dangerous such a development could be. Hopefully, if they're genuinely interested, it isn't for the wrong reasons (ie using their connections to become personally wealthy). "The thing about capitalism is that it sounds awful on paper and is horrendous in practice. Communism sounds wonderful on paper and when it was put into practice it was done pretty well for what they had to work with." -MiG
I would love for Raul to meet Obama and I wonder if Obama would. I think Raul would make a great case for ending the block which is so ridiculous and stupid. The U.S. politicians should just get over it. I understand why it happened but I think it's time to change and make the 21st century about building relationships more than making enemies. I would love for the U.S. to have a healthy relationship with Cuba. I'm not asking for the two to be friends but to be civil and to work together. I know Obama at one point said he would like to see the end of the blocking but than he spoke in Florida and said opposite. *sigh* Maybe Raul can make it happen.
Quote: Cuba has a parliamentary type system. Check this out- http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/Cu ... cracy.html Here's a link telling about Cuba's prison system. It's actually pretty damn good and as someone (me) who is going into law enforcement I would like to see us have similar programs. http://afrocubaweb.com/elijah.htm Their system seems more about helping the people instead of harsh punishments and revenge "justice."
Soviet cogitations: 9243
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Old Bolshevik
The end of the blockade would piss off all the Cubans living in Florida, which seems to be a fairly large and active voting group.
As far as foreign relations goes, this is quite silly. If Cuba really wants to end the blockade why invite the Russian military onto it's seas and land. It's not like it's really trying to make any case to the US, but instead play a victim or make vague shows of force. Especially since America doesn't really have any incentive to normalize trade. So wtf is Raul on? Appealing to the kindness of their hearts or what? However the release of political prisoners is a relatively pain-free demand isn't it? Hypocritical perhaps, but it's a joke to say that Cuba is more democratic (or better at human rights than the US). Cuba may have the infrastructure for an innovative form of democracy (so does Libya actually), but they aren't democratic and that's plain to see. I've been to Cuba myself and it's probably one of the more corrupt places I've ever been to. Fitzy wrote:
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo Quote: I think these are just symptoms of the dilemma Cuba is facing. On one hand, the government wants all the restrictions associated with the embargo to end (after all many do have a strong impact on the Cuban economy and population - poor access to the internet as a result of having no access to U.S. run undersea cables for example) and I'm sure it can see the possible benefits of a trade relationship with the U.S.. It also needs to show a population who have been taught the embargo is a negative force that it is trying to do something, even if that something is ineffective, like appeals to the United Nations. On the other hand, it also quite correctly sees the U.S. as a possible threat militarily and has to take whatever measures it can to minimise that threat. For now, that means getting close with the Russians. It's a hard balance with no magic solution as of yet. Quote: All I can say to this is that Cuba has made some serious attempts to improve it's perceived human rights record in the last few decades, while the U.S. has only truly done so on and off mainly due to administration change. Quote: By what standard? By Liberal Democratic standards certainly not, but that is not the only there is to judge from. No-one can claim that the Cuban system is perfect and it certainly could use improvement as all political systems can, but to say it isn't democratic in the slightest is misleading in my opinion. It's version of democracy is simply different and by the judgment of most people here, more in line with Socialist principles. Quote: I've read several accounts from visitors of various persuasions which contradict this statement. Could you elaborate please?
Soviet cogitations: 9243
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Old Bolshevik Fellow Comrade wrote: Indeed, however surely they could've timed it better. Asked to meet Obama, but not at the same time as they invite the Russian Navy... Fellow Comrade wrote: I would say that in the US there are still significantly more freedoms available than in Cuba. Sure the 'US' is the great evil in the eyes of most socialists and 'Cuba' is perhaps one of the better functioning socialist states, they are still worlds apart. Fellow Comrade wrote: By normal standards. Only a small group of Marxists think a dictatorship of the proletariat is more democratic than western 'liberal democracies'. But it's certainly telling when one man has been in power for over 40 years and when he retires his brother takes power? That should certainly tell you something. And the judgment of most people here, well this is the one forum I post on where I see people talk often about getting rid of democracy and how it's bad blah blah. Fellow Comrade wrote: Cops would try and get money from us for just giving us directions (directions we didn't ask for.) That was on our first day there (my Dad and I). Now I've never been to sub-saharan Africa so I wouldn't doubt it's more corrupt there, nor have I been to Vietnam (generally regarded as one of the more corrupt places today), nor have I been to other Latin American countries. But I've traveled a bit, and I've never seen anything like that. Not even in Belarus. Not in Mongolia. Fitzy wrote:
Soviet cogitations: 4955
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 13 Feb 2008, 15:25 Ideology: Other Leftist Politburo Quote: I'm sure Chaz and others who have gone through situations similar to his would agree with you. Quote: It isn't relevant how many people believe this and how many believe that. The fact that there is more than one standard from which to judge is all I was pointing out. It could simply be that there are a Hell of a lot of people in the world who are wrong or misguided. There was a time when Democracy of any sort was only believed in and pushed by small fringe groups not too unlike Marxists and other progressives in developed nations today, but the ideals eventually spread and became accepted. I'm sure you would agree that it didn't develop out of a vacuum. Quote: All I see is that the Cuban system works differently to the ones we are used to. This is something which was been discussed on this board at great length. Let's not forget that there have been been governments in Western style democracies which have been in power for long periods (although I concede, not 40 years) and often under much the same people, that is of course in nations without a limit on how many terms a government can remain in power. Quote: Maybe they have some good points? In my time here, I haven't seen a great many people criticise Democracy so much as how it has been implemented in most places. Most Socialists simply want to create a democratic system geared towards advancing their cause rather than hindering it. Quote: That's little more than low level corruption. I've read of far worse examples in other countries. I've seen some quite disturbing reports of police corruption here in Australia and only within the last few years as well (I also have family who've experienced it to a lesser degree). I should be able to dig them up or at least give you an account if you would like. Would that make Australia one of the "more corrupt" places in the world today? It's entirely possible that you and your Dad simply had the misfortune of running into a couple of bad eggs. The fact that Cuba is still developing a decent reputation as a tourist destination would seem to indicated that the kind of corruption you experienced isn't very wide spread.
Soviet cogitations: 9243
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Old Bolshevik Fellow Comrade wrote: I haven't the faintest idea what (or which thread) you are talking about, or how it relates to my quote. You can link me, but I'd just bring up the same rebuttal you made to my own anecdotal evidence. Fellow Comrade wrote: Of course it's relevant. It's called legitimacy. And you can say that about any unpopular idea... o.O Fellow Comrade wrote: Sure but they've generally had multi party representation, freedom of speech was allowed to a much larger degree, and generally you were able to leave the country at your own volition. o.O Fellow Comrade wrote: This is getting rather out of hand. Those who were most against it probably were rather young, inexperienced and relatively out of touch. What people think on this forum about one concept or another doesn't really matter much to me. Not when I've been through Ixabert, Chernobog, and that guy that thought 1984 was the framework for a perfect society and that the USSR was comparable to a slice of rotting pizza (pretty good if you looked aside from the rot.) Fellow Comrade wrote: Of course it's low level corruption, it was anecdotal. However you always have corruption in neo-patrimonial states, and generally higher levels. Yes there is corruption in the Western world (my God look at Italy), but it's compounded in a patrimonial system where corruption is endemic and unavoidable. (Simply by how they are formed structurally.) Fitzy wrote:
How did I get brought up in this?
Soviet cogitations: 9243
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Old Bolshevik
I think you and I are a Marxian dialectic. Can't have one without the other! (or a bad sitcom)
Fitzy wrote: Cata wrote: What did Clinton say? What did Reagan? JFK? Eisenhower? What will Obama say? TRL wrote: The real question isn't the US's choice, it's Cubas. If the Cuban government still maintains a monopoly over foriegn trade, then not much will change other than an increase in prosperity between the two nations. If the Cuban government loses that monopoly, then we'll have another China, Vietnam, Laos, or worse. WCM wrote: American companies have lost billions of dollars in possible trade with Cuba over the years. WCM wrote: Cuba is more democratic for their working class than the United States. WCM wrote: According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Cuba is ranked in the 3rd tier (6th being the worse). Above most of the Latin American countries. Not saying that corruption isn't a major issue in Cuba, it is. WCM wrote: "It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness." -Marx. Really aren't any normal standards. WCM wrote: A brother who has been leading the country since the Revolution. And before you point at Nepotism, look at their children. Only Luis Alberto Fernández has a position of importance within the armed forces. WCM wrote: A country could have a 100 political parties that all represented the same class. Is that better than having one party represent one class? As for freedom of speech, with the exception of comrades and trollers, working class media generally doesn't get represented by them. It comes down to what class owns the private property (in this case the media). "Don't hate on me bro" - Loz Quote: Epic ownage. Quote: Link plz.
Soviet cogitations: 280
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 30 Oct 2007, 23:49 Ideology: Social Democracy Komsomol
Alot of the "prisoners" are actually paid American agents sent to incite revolt in Cuba, and then the USA turns around and wonders why these agents or false "journalists" are thrown in jail.
Soviet cogitations: 9243
Defected to the U.S.S.R.: 02 Mar 2004, 15:19 Ideology: Democratic Socialism Old Bolshevik Red Rebel wrote: A potential loss is not an actual loss. Red Rebel wrote: if you say so....? Now come on. How verifiable is that really? You're the Cuba expert here, I would love to see some in depth 3rd party (and hopefully independent) analysis or ratings or whatever on Cuban democracy. If you have any links. Red Rebel wrote: Oh I'm sure it's not incredibly corrupt like Zimbabwe for instance, just mildly corrupt. Red Rebel wrote: By normal standards, I meant the standards that most of society (with the notable exception of Marxist-Leninists) agree upon. Red Rebel wrote: That still doesn't make the situation look more transparent. I do believe that Raul is a competent leader, that was not what I was questioning about the transition. Red Rebel wrote: Western Liberal Democracies have working class parties, or parties that represent the working class. Once Labour actually had a connection to the meaning of it's name. The working class just doesn't seem to vote for communist parties that much in many places (although some places have relatively higher percentages of voters voting communist.) And that's a terrible argument for justifying the removal of freedom of speech, especially when we're discussing a society that removed the bourgeoisie from power. Fitzy wrote: Quote: Actually, a recent survey shows that more Cubans in Miami are now against the embargo. The media in Miami just gives the appearance that all Cuban-Americans would defend the embargo to the death. "Neither Maoist, nor internationalist, nor a movement" - heiss93 on the MIM
Huh, now some of that is interesting. Basically what that's suggesting is that the anti-Cuba immigrants haven't gotten any less anti-Cuba, but the newer/younger ones aren't following suit. So the ones who left before 1980 and the ones who are over 65 tend to be more anti-Cuba.
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As many are aware, many Agents who explored the Thymosphere were witness to a phenomena we at Espercorp had not ever witnessed before. "Santa Claus" appeared within the Thymosphere and gave any Agent willing to engage them a 'gift', presumably in celebration of the Holiday. Was this phenomena an 'Esper'? Or something new?
Needless to say, it's an alarming occurrence that requires explanation. Since Christmas I've had to fend off countless emails from inquiring Agents demanding just that. Well, I'm working on it. My whole winter break got taken up researching the subject. Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but I was hoping to have some time off and instead I had a business trip to the North Pole. Anyways, it's taken me some time to compile my notes on the subject, and compare my research with the Chief Spectrologists at Espercorp. But here it is, finally.
Initial Encounter
The best way to start this is to begin with a story. It was 12:03 am, the very beginning of Christmas Eve. The stockings were hung above the Espercorp Furnace with care, and we had decorated a Treant and let him loose in the main lounge. I was answering support email when I suddenly got a company-wide instant message from Scotty:
'everyone to the hub NOW.'
Scotty doesn't usually take the time to add periods to his sentences so I knew that this was important. By the time I got there everyone was already crowded around the Esper screen, looking at something big and red. "What is it?" I asked.
"It's Santa!" Rusty exclaimed with joy. I laughed initially, but after a closer look, the resemblance was unmistakable, even through the blurry resolution of the Esper Screen:


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His quest for answers ultimately required him to visit factory farms in the middle of the night, dissect the emotional ingredients of meals from his childhood, and probe some of his most primal instincts about right and wrong.
Brilliantly synthesizing philosophy, literature, science, memoir, and his own detective work, Eating Animals explores the many fictions we use to justify our eating habits - from folklore to pop culture to family traditions and national myth - and how such tales can lull us into a brutal forgetting. Marked by Foer's profound moral ferocity and unvarying generosity, as well as the vibrant style and creativity that made his previous books, Everything Is Illuminated and Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, widely loved, Eating Animals is a celebration and a reckoning, a story about the stories we've told - and the stories we now need to tell.
©2009 Jonathan Safran Foer; (P)2009 Recorded Books, LLC
"The everyday horrors of factory farming are evoked so vividly, and the case against the people who run the system presented so convincingly, that anyone who, after reading Foer's book, continues to consume the industry's products must be without a heart, or impervious to reason, or both." (J. M. Coetzee)
"A work of moral philosophy...After reading this book, it's hard to disagree [with Foer]." (San Francisco Chronicle)
"For a hot young writer to train his sights on a subject as unpalatable as meat production and consumption takes raw nerve. What makes Eating Animals so unusual is vegetarian Foer's empathy for human meat eaters, his willingness to let both factory farmers and food reform activists speak for themselves, and his talent for using humor to sweeten a sour argument." (O, The Oprah Magazine)
I believe a reviewer should finish a book before submitting a review. What do you think?
"Important Read!"
The author does a fine job here presenting the information in a well thought out and balanced way. Yes we have heard many of these horror stories about the factory farms and slaughter houses before and yet Jonathan Safran Foer presents all this in a provocative and dare I say friendly tone. This book actually caused me not only to think more about options but motivated me to make changes in the ways in which our household eats meat.
At first listening to thiese atrocities I felt powerless because we are meat lovers. We are not going to choose to become vegetarian yet I can no longer buy these factory farmed animal products.
Listening to this book has reminded me to be a better consumer. If we are going to eat meat we better be prepared to pay more for locally grown meats that come from small farms where the animals are treated kindly and in a humane fashion. I now am going to find out where the local slaughter houses are and be sure that any meats we consume are slaughtered in a humane way. So although this book was not fun or at all enjoyable I am glad I had a listen and I truly thank this author for reminding us to do the right thing and support our local family farms and encourage these farms to treat their stock with dignity and decency. This book was a difficult yet interesting listen, well worth the credit.
"Surprisingly Even-Handed"
As the author points out within the piece, I picked up this book with the expectation that it would be a straightforward case for vegetarianism. I'm pleased to find out that I was wrong. Of the handful of books I've read on the subject of animal agriculture and food production, this has been by far the most even-handed. Does he have an agenda? Sure. What writer doesn't? But he is relatively fair in its delivery. For example, within books of this type, it's exceedingly rare to find a well-written, logically-convincing, morally-reasonable passage written from the point of view of someone in the meat industry. There were multiple in Eating Animals, which I appreciated. I'm willing to listen to anyone who can present a PETA activist, a normal citizen, a local farmer and an industrial agriculture businessman within the space of 50 pages, and allow each of them to sound equally reasonable (albeit in very different ways).
My only problem with this book was the narration. I'm relatively new to audiobooks -- I've read fewer than a dozen. I thought perhaps it was just my inexperience in the medium that made this narration so jarring to me. The narrator has unnaturally long pauses between words and sometimes seems to emphasize the wrong word within a sentence. It makes it harder to listen to. That said, if you're genuinely interested in the topic, the narration shouldn't be enough to deter you from reading this book -- the writing was strong enough to make up for the poor delivery, in my opinion.
"Revelation for the Millennial Generation"
This book is groundbreaking in revealing a dark side of human behavior and an industry that most people view as benign or is invisible. The parental command "Eat your food!" takes on entirely new meaning with this book. In a sense, it picks up the thread started by Upton Sinclair over 100 years ago, revealing examples of unbelievable human behavior and greed in the factory meat industry, first described in SInclair's The Jungle.
The book is very well written, well documented and technically correct. After listening to the audiobook, I bought the hardcopy to verify his references. The audiobook is well spoken and does not indulge in theatrical voicings like some nonfiction book readers like to do.
Foer develops two critical questions that impact individual health and character, and the well being of society as a whole: 1) is it possible to raise and then kill sentient animals for food in an ethical and humane manner; 2) if so, how do we do that? He does not preach answers to either question, but explores the thinking and emotions behind those issues. It is perfectly conceivable that a meat loving omnivore would read this book and choose not to change eating habits; but no thinking person could read this book and then fail to question the culture and institutions that put her meat on the table.
If you are interested in the relationship between what you and your family eat and your health, and in the ethical quality of the institutions - governmental as well as corporate - that subsidize and invest in the factory farming industry, you must read or listen to this book. Then see the the movie Food, Inc. I don't know if Foer and Kenner worked together to make a package, but Foer's book and Kenner's documentary synergize for an astonishing impact.
"Great Food for Thought"
Safran Foer's work is personal, detailed, and broad. Therein lies its many strengths and some of its weaknesses. It's not a textbook or study so much as a personal reflection and personal investigation of how we produce (most of) the animals for consumption that we do.
In turns, it's horrific, painfully sad, and very funny--if darkly so. At points it meanders a bit and goes into detail that others may not. Over all, the detail and focus is riveting and well written.
The narration is performed at a rate, I feel, that matches very well the sense of reflection and poetic cadence of the book; and of course one has the option to speed up if one wants (at least with an iPod). I would not.
All in all, this is a book that you can turn back to again and again, that provides mental sustenance to support better choices in how you may choose to live and how to feed yourself and your family.
"Excellent book on the subject"
If you are curious at all about what goes on behind the scenes in the production of meat or if you want to understand the ethical, environmental, and epidemiological concerns of the meat industry then read "Eating Animals". I've read a few books on this subject already (Peter Singer, Gary Francione) and would recommend this book to anyone, particularly to those who are apprehensive about reading about such dark matters. Foer's style is engaging and highly readable. Though it's a book of investigative journalism it can also be enjoyed for its autobiographical digressions, philosophical speculation and Foer's fair treatment to the different actors in this drama.
"Must Read-this book changed my life!"
I found out how little I knew what I was eating
Food Matters, The Omnivore's Dilemma, The Way We Eat
No, this is my first book by Ross. He did a great job.
The evil of corporate factory farm. In the interest of making a few dollars, animal suffers, people eat unhealthy meat and cause environmental catastrophe.
I am so glad that I stubble upon this book. It changed my eating habit and my life. I am now a vegetarian (I have stopped eating all meats and most dairy products. I will stop eat egg white and cheese soon) with the full intention transition into a vegan in the next few months. I am doing this slowly so it can be a sustainable lifestyle change for me.
Most of us sort of know about these compelling issues (animal suffering, personal health and environmental concerns) why we should not eat meat. Like most Americans, I did not wish to face it. I was in DENIAL.
This book made me take a much closer look of myself and helped me to discover my inner compassion for the animals. It brought tears in my eyes and mad as hell! It helped changed me from being part of the problem and empowered me to be part of "solution" by "opt out" of mainstream, big corporate food system. If you have an ounce of compassion for the animals we eat; a slight concern about your personal and your family health; and passionate about saving our environment, read this book and then your heart will direct you to do the "right thing"!
"Powerful...this book will move you."
This book is not for the faint of heart. It exposes the factory farm system of meat supply in our country. If you are concerned about your personal health, the environment, and what you eat on a daily basis this book has things you need to know. Foer intersperses these accounts with personal and engaging stories about his personal life so it is not a total gloom and doom experience. I hope his book will have an equal or greater effect than Upton Sinclair's The Jungle did a century ago. It is an interesting and worthwhile read.
Dianne in Canada
"Fantastic Book"
This book is really really good. The author presents the information in a very objective way and based on a lot of reasearch. The book is a hundred times better and more interesting than Michael Pollans books. One of the most interesting and well written books I've read on the subject. Its also been translated into several other languages all ready.
"His Fiction is Much Better"
Otherwise known as My Leisurely Journey to Vegetarianism And Incidentally You're An Idiot If You Don't Convert To It Also
I was pretty let down by Foer's first stab at nonfiction, especially since the reviews said it was even-handed. This was not as detailed or remotely objective as Omnivore's Dilemma and Fast Food Nation. Although it had some interesting information - like the brief info about PETA and Smithfield - I felt like I was being force-fed (trying... to... avoid... puns) the conclusions instead of letting me have the facts and come to revelations/decisions on my own. And the conclusion-jumping was a bit much: If we stop eating meat > animals won't be hurt > factories won't pollute > Global Warming will cease > we'll be happy lettuce munchers.
With the two books mentioned above (which he openly criticizes) there was a pull instead of a push, and I didn't feel like I was being talked down to. This just made me feel entrenched in meat for no other reason than I was insulted... and it makes me want to bathe in steak and drink turkey blood.
Tone aside, this does present a good case against animal cruelty, which even meat-lovers would want to change. Reform is something we need to demand, but saying that the only way to change factory farming is to become a vegetarian is just plain naive.
"Nothing New"
This book makes some good points about the benefits of a vegetarian or at least ethically farmed omnivorous diet, but it's all been said before. For a better narrated, well written version of this book, I recommend "The Omnivore's Dilemma".


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I really am hesitant to ask this question--but I need some help so I'm going to reach out here since this is a pretty helpful group of people.
I am really struggling with binge eating. I keep bingeing on nonpaleo foods even though I KNOW that I feel awful when I eat them and that they tend to keep cravings going and exacerbate problems with bingeing. I am torn between trying to "solve" this problem (and the weight gain associated with it) by using a "food plan" where I weigh/measure my food OR by actually learning to eat when I'm hungry, stop when full, etc. I know it sounds really stupid, but I cannot figure out what to do. I am desperate to lose some weight--I am gaining at an alarming rate because of my binge eating--but attempts to follow "plans" (even at 2000-2200 calories) generally seem to result in failure and binges.
I'm just wondering if anyone would be willing to share their experience(s) with this and how you "solved" the binge eating problem. It is my Number One Problem in life--and I am a middle-aged woman with a husband and kids...in other words, I have a LOT of other issues in life--but I can't seem to "fix" this one. I am on medication to help--but it doesn't seem to help. I just feel like I don't know where to turn. In all other areas of my life, I'm quite functional--but I'm kind of a mess with food. I have issues with satiety and some mild issues with hypoglycemia--these things don't make it any easier.
Thanks in advance--I know it may be difficult for people to share personal information, so I understand if people are unwilling to do so.


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2011 Calendar
A dozen of the finest images from the Rouleur regulars, plus cover by
Richard Mitchelson taken from his splendid One Day in July, first
seen in issue 18. All major race dates are listed, accompanied by
work from Gerard Brown, Taz Darling, Marthein Smit, Daniel Sharp,
Yazuka Wada and Guy Andrews.
260mm x 240mm (480mm when hanging 'open')
Text on 150gsm silk, Covers on 250gsm silk
Thread sewn on the long edge.
Metal eyelet reinforced hole.


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Heh! One of my favorite travel stories is when TSA agents went through our luggage in the Orlando airport when we were traveling in between there and St. Croix. The TSA dude held up each and every toy (some were BDSM implements) and I loudly and proudly described each one and what it was for, laughing the entire time. Poor dude was thoroughly embarrassed when we were done but I had a fabulous time! :D
Report abuse
Now, that is funny.
Yet, it is sad to hear of the other stories. I just believe that all of you gals will have good luck and no problems.
See you soon!
I couldn't believe it when I heard about it. I can't imagine how they felt. I hope they get a huge windfall from their lawsuit.
It always sad to see the hatred some of the world still harbors against love!!
Recent news story from a couple that traveled through Houston.
Thanks for the witty responses & the sensible suggestions.
Feel free to ask me how I get on, for someone who is not shy I do blush easily though.
Yes to batteries out of device. Pack them in a clear baggie, and on top of your luggage, for if it is shipped under the plane it will be opened by the TSA. If you carry on, your bag will be opened by the TSA, so pack it on top and just tell them if they stop you that it is probable your personal toys they are questioning. Remember, they have seen it all. Just make it easy for them to see, and you will go thru the line quickly.
Good luck!!
i was thinking more along the lines of "water noodle"...
while i don't have any concrete info to share, i will say this...take the batteries out first, before you pack it. LOL!
happy and safe travels, see you in a few!!
You're going to be embarrassed by your pool raft!?! ;)
Okay slightly embarrassed to ask...am blushing as I type.
Will I have a have a problem with Mexican customs if I bring a toy or two?


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Author(s): Dawkins, E., M. Chadwick, K. Roelich and R. Falk.
Year: 2012
In: SEI Project Report. SEI: Stockholm, Sweden
Type: Project report
Link to SEI author(s):
Metals in a Low-Carbon Economy: Resource Scarcity, Climate Change and Business in a Finite World
This report, written as part of the partnership programme between the business leaders' initiative 3C (Combat Climate Change) and the Stockholm Environment Institute, examines the use of five metals in low-carbon technologies: cobalt, lithium, neodymium, indium and tellurium.
In the last two decades there has been rapid growth in the development and installation of low-carbon technologies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to mitigate climate change, as well as to secure energy supplies. However, interest in these technologies has been matched by concern that potential bottlenecks in the supply chains for various metals that are critical for low-carbon technologies could hinder the deployment of these technologies on a substantial scale.
A range of metals are essential for manufacturing and operating low-carbon technologies, and the majority of companies and governments supporting their development depend on imports for many of them. As demand grows and competition over resources intensifies, concerns have arisen that limited metal availability might slow deployment of the technologies.
The authors' analysis uses scenarios to explore the impacts of the significant uncertainty in potential supply, and a rapid growth in demand, for these materials. The outcomes of the scenario analysis were shared with businesses, and their responses and insights on these issues are also presented in this report.
Download the project report (PDF, 3.11MB)
Read a policy brief summarising the findings »


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Hey ya, we are looking for all kinds of game dev interested people for our 2D sci-fi action adventure rpg "Quantum Nucleus"
This is voluntary collaboration.
We are seeking programmers(Java), artists, designers, audio people and writers
So basically all kinds of people.
Please watch our video, for further information:
Thanks !
Team seeks collaboration for 2D action adventure RPG
Started by AlchemicTempest, Nov 04 2012 06:54 PM
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We Still In This Bitch (feat. T.I. and Juicy J) Digital Single
Strange Clouds Deluxe Pack
Strange Clouds Backpack
From 102.7 KIIS-FM Jingle Ball last night in LA. B.o.B with Katy Perry and Hayley Williams!
Katy looking good per usual.
Not sure if this is a holiday séance or prayer. Either way, it's hilarious.
Marry Me Bob?? :) yuuuuh #NoGenre


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Information about the Albuquerque Museum of Art and History.
One of the Duke City's top attractions, the Albuquerque Museum of Art and History offers a wealth of cultural and historical artifacts and works of art.
From the ancient to post-modern, the Albuquerque Museum has long been a must-see showcase in Old Town.
Plan a visit soon, whether you are a visitor to our great city or a longtime resident. We have fun for all!
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Explore the Collection
Enjoy one of the best collections of art and history in New Mexico. Learn more.
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The Albuquerque Museum is a wonderful place to serve as a volunteer. Learn more.
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Jazz and Blues Under the Stars
The Memphis P'Tails and the Pleasure Pilots perform at The Albuquerque Museum Amphitheater
Sunday Program: Lecture
Explore what it means to be a Westerner through voice and sound with writer, aural historian, radio producer, and sound collage artist Jack Loeffler.
Jazz and Blues Under the Stars
Pete Amahl & Friends and the JQ Whitcomb Quintet perform at The Albuquerque Museum Amphitheater


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With the Cling Mount stamp sets from Stampers Anonymous you receive the detail and long lasting quality of rubber with the convenience ... Full Description & Details.
As usual, great stamps from Tom Holtz. Clear crisp perfect stamp everytime great for making a collage or for single use.
saw a video for a bracelet using these products-had to have them


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House lawmakers voted 116-55 on Friday to approve amended Senate legislation. The bill now heads back to the Senate, which has backed different proposals.
The current plan would allow probate court judges to issue a license to carry a firearm to people who have received voluntary, in-patient treatment for mental health issues in the past five years. Right now, judges can deny permits to those people.
The bill would allow school districts to arm their employees, a response to a mass shooting in Connecticut.
Another provision would allow students with a license to carry a gun to take their weapons onto parts of public colleges and universities.


text:
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Renfrew's PRO GRADE™ tape is a thick woven cotton cloth tape that has a more consistent coating of adhesive creating a moisture barrier between the ice and stick, resulting in better adhesion and a longer lasting product.
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text: Bluwater Crossing in Carlsbad hosted a VIP event to preview the new development adjacent to Poinsettia Coaster station. Bluwater Crossing is a transit-oriented, mixed-use community featuring live/work lofts and town loft homes. Guests met and mingled and enjoyed cocktails, music, and a tour, along with presentations by guest speakers Brad Perozzi, Kevin Andraded, and Darin Schoolmeester from Trammel Crow Residential, as well as Carlsbad Mayor Claude A. "Bud" Lewis. Photography by Bob Stefanko


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Singer-actress Nicole Pryor was sad to leave Las Vegas, where she spent the past six years performing in "Phantom — the Las Vegas Spectacular," but she's excited to return to Moorpark, where she grew up. "It's a mixed bag of emotions," she says.
After six years in Vegas, singer-actress Nicole Pryor returns to Moorpark
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Online business columnist Jason Womack talks Lessons in Business Leadership.
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