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To get ready for next Monday's GREASE 2 Blogathon, I thought I'd devote this week's "What Ever Happened to" to two stars from that film, Jean and Liz Sagal.
While Michelle Pfeiffer was probably the biggest star to come from GREASE 2, in some ways you can say that the Sagal twins were the FIRST stars to emerge from it.
Jean and Liz came from a show business family. Their father, Boris Sagal, was the director of THE OMEGA MAN, RICH MAN POOR MAN and other films and TV shows (he was tragically killed in 1981). Their sister, Katey, would later go on to fame as Peg Bundy on MARRIED WITH CHILDREN.
The twins began as dancers, and were two of the most memorable Doublemint Twins in the famous commercials.
Then came GREASE 2, where they played the cheerleaders. You remember them, at the opening, greeting Miss Mason.
"I love your hair Miss Mason."
"Oh, thanks" She leaves
The twins in unison "All 300 pounds of it".
They were there in most of the big musical numbers, and sang, "Brad" in the talent show.
After the release, while Michelle Pfeiffer was still doing supporting roles in features (and afterschool specials like ONE TOO MANY, anyone remember that?), the Sagal twins went on to star in the leads in an NBC sitcom, DOUBLE TROUBLE.
DOUBLE TROUBLE had an interesting history. It ran on NBC in 1984-1985, where the girls played the daughters of a single father (Donnelly Rhodes) who ran an exercise studio (allowing the girls plenty of time for dancing). Patricia Richardson (who would go on to star in HOME IMPROVEMENT) played his girlfriend.
Then, it came back as a midseason replacement, only it was revamped, set in New York, with the girls living with their aunt, Barbara Barrie. I didn't care for this format as much, but it ran longer than the earlier season. It was soon cancelled, but lived on in reruns for years.
They worked together again in episodes QUANTUM LEAP, 21 JUMP STREET and a 1992 episode of PICKET FENCES.
On their own, Liz appeared in HOWARD THE DUCK as one of Lea Thompson's bandmates and a few TV episodes. Jean appeared in a lot of episodic TV (CAGNEY AND LACEY, TRAPPER JOHN M.D., KNOT'S LANDING).
But since the early 90's, they have retired from acting.
So, what ever happened to them?
They are both still in the industry, both behind the camera.
Jean wrote and directed several sitcoms, including JUST SHOOT ME and even MAD TV. She directed a TV series starring the Olsen Twins. I guess she probably was a good choice to work with them. She is now married and has a child.
Liz has written for such shows as MAD ABOUT YOU, TWO GUYS AND A GIRL, and was a story editor on CHARMED.
It is good to see they are still working, but I'd love to see them in front of the camera again. Maybe do a DOUBLE TROUBLE reunion movie. Ya think? Or at least release the series on DVD. 23 episodes, that could fit in one box set.
For even more information, be sure to visit SagalTwins.com
Thursday, June 07, 2007
What Ever Happened To: Jean and Liz Sagal
Posted by TALKING MOVIEzzz at 3:23 PM
Labels: Jean Sagal, Liz Sagal, What Ever Happened To
17 comments:
- Damian said...
Oh man! Here I thought I was the only one who remembered the sitcom Double Trouble. Never knew that those were the same two girls from Grease 2 (which I've seen only once) and those gum commercials! Too bad they couldn't turn their "twin fame" into the kind of multi-zillion empire the Olsens did.
- June 7, 2007 at 7:45:00 PM EDT
- Moviezzz said...
Who could forget DOUBLE TROUBLE!! It aired on USA even in the 90's.
And yes, they were much more talented than the Olsens. But, I guess they started too late. - June 7, 2007 at 8:33:00 PM EDT
- Anonymous said...
I remember this show and the Sagal twins fondly. Thanks for this balst from the past...but it was Barbara Barrie and not Cloris Leachmanwho played the aunt in season two. Cloris took over for the girls on Facts of Life.
- June 12, 2007 at 12:41:00 AM EDT
- Moviezzz said...
Thank you for the correction! I knew when I was writing I had to doublecheck that it was Leachman, but posted before I did. Like I said, I haven't seen it in years.
I guess I got my 80's sitcoms confused. - June 12, 2007 at 11:08:00 AM EDT
- Craig said...
Both Jean & Liz have emailed me that they will be at the GREASE 2 25th anniversary reunion this July 20/21 in Burbank, California! Stop by and say hello because they have never done an autograph show before and are interested in meeting everyone!
http://www.hollywoodcollectorshow.com/Burbank.htm - June 14, 2007 at 6:04:00 PM EDT
- Moviezzz said...
Wow! Both are going to be at the convention? That makes me want to fly out for it.
- June 14, 2007 at 9:39:00 PM EDT
- TB said...
I went to the Grease 2 reunion at the Hollywood Collectors show specifically to meet Liz & Jean. They were every bit as sweet and nice and playful as any fan could ever dare dream they'd be!
I'm still on cloud 9!! - July 26, 2007 at 10:31:00 AM EDT
- Anonymous said...
I miss this show. Why don't they ever play reruns. I was just a little girl when it airred but for some reason I remember so vividly the Maxie Burger Commercial Episode! Maxi Burger, Maxi Buger yum yum yum Maxi Burger, Maxi Burger makes you wanna hmmmmmm.
I'm a little embarassed that I know that! I hope it makes it to DVD soon. - April 25, 2008 at 12:48:00 PM EDT
- Ross Ruediger said...
I had no idea they were related to Katey Sagal, yet my earliest memories of them predate her by several years. Learn something new every day, right? ;-)
- October 18, 2008 at 11:13:00 AM EDT
- Fox said...
These two ladies have always been on my mind! I loved that show and seeing them even more. Great to know that they are together and doing well. Definitely a teenage boys dream at that time of my life 6th - 7th grade.
- January 5, 2009 at 4:54:00 PM EST
- Anonymous said...
I may be wrong but isn't that a Sagal twin sitting next to the 800 lb gorilla on a jetliner in the new commercial. She looks alot like sister Katey.
- April 15, 2009 at 5:26:00 PM EDT
- Marc Edward Heuck said...
It's worth noting that "DOUBLE TROUBLE" also featured, as the twins' friends, Jonathan Schmock and James Vallely, who worked as a comedy team called "The Funny Boys." They had sketches that aired on shows like "NIGHT FLIGHT" and "TELEVISION PARTS" with Mike Nesmith, and they each worked with John Hughes. Schmock is probably best recognized as the snooty (or is it snotty) maitre'd at Chez Quis in FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF.
- September 6, 2009 at 5:51:00 AM EDT
- Anonymous said...
After having watched Dazed and Confused, I believe Michelle Renee Thomas (played Jodie Kramer) must be a clone of either Jean or Liz Sagal.
- September 6, 2009 at 8:10:00 PM EDT
- Moviezzz said...
I remember seeing TELEVISION PARTS during the run of DOUBLE TROUBLE and recognizing the two.
Although I liked the early years of the show better than when they joined the cast. - September 6, 2009 at 9:03:00 PM EDT
- Anonymous said...
WOW, I'm not the only one who remembers this show!! I use to have all the episodes on tape...I wish I still had it. I thought it was a cute show. Glad to see Liz and Jean are still in the business.
The maxi burger episode was great..and I remembered the jingle too lol. would love to see this show on DVD. - September 30, 2009 at 1:24:00 AM EDT
- Anonymous said...
I miss the show Double Trouble. I use to watch it all the time. I wish they would put on their reruns. I would really enjoy watching them dance.
- June 20, 2010 at 10:28:00 PM EDT
- curriculum vitae said...
I remember them, I think they were also in quantum leap - now that was a great programme
- January 14, 2011 at 11:17:00 AM EST


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"The locals have an enviable pace of life here. The sense of tranquillity is assisted by the daily siesta which, while initially frustrating, became a favourite part of my day… A good time to practise pronouncing most of the place names here…"
"Places like the mysterious Tikal and Palenque, home to magnificent Mayan monuments peering out of the jungle. The fantastic market in Chichicastenango, visit the beautiful colonial cities like Antigua, San Christobal de las Casas and Merida, treking in the jungle of Peten or climb the active volcano Pacaya. When it came to chilling out again, the Caribbean island of Caye Caulker provided the clearest waters and the most relaxed atmosphere of the entire trip. Central America has never stoped amazing me since I visited for the first time in 1995. I'll see you there!"
JP - Traveller
Capital Cities:
Mexico: Mexico City
Guatemala: Guatemala City
Belize: Belmopan
Official Language: Spanish and Amerindian languages, including Quiche, Cakchiquel, Kekchi, Mam, Garifuna, and Xinca.
Please Note: If you spend time in smaller towns and villages you may wish to bring along a phrasebook to help you pick up a few words of the local language.
Voltage: 220/110v twin prong round European and twin prong flat US sockets.
Citizens of the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and almost all European countries do not require a visa for Mexico. A government tourist card, available from embassies and border crossings, is required for stays longer than 72 hours. You will have to show a Yellow Fever Certificate if arriving from a country where the disease is endemic. You will have to fill out an immigration form on arrival which will be checked, stamped and left in your passport for the duration of your stay. If you do not have this paper on departing Mexico you must pay a fine of approximately US$42.
Most nationals do not need a visa to enter Guatemala, but it is important to check the rules for your nationality with your nearest embassy or consulate. Entry is granted on production of a passport valid for more than 6 months and proof of funds to support yourself. As a tourist you are entitled to 90 days; however, depending on the immigration official, you may be allocated 30, 60 or 90 days. You will probably be asked to fill out an immigration card. A copy of this card should stay in your passport until you exit the country.
Passport holders from the EU, US and Commonwealth countries do not require a visa for Belize. Most other nationalities do. Belizean consulates and embassies are located in Australia, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Guatemala, US, UK and Mexico.
The monetary unit in Mexico is the Mexican Peso which is divided into 100 cents. Usually the dollar sign ($) is used as an abbreviation. Current exchange rates (as of May 2008) below:
The monetary unit in Guatemala is the Quetzal (GTQ). Usually a "Q" is used as an abbreviation. The quetzal is divided into 100 centavos. Approximate exchange rates (as of May 2008) below:
The monetary unit in Belize is the Belizean Dollar (BZ$) which is divided into 100 cents. Approximate exchange rates (as of February 2005) below:
XE.com is a useful site for currency conversion.
US dollars (cash) are accepted for some purchases in Mexico, Guatemala and Belize. However, you will need local currency for most purchases. Even if you have the choice of paying for things in US$ it will be in your favour to use local currency. Therefore we advise you to obtain a considerable amount of local currency as soon as you enter each country.
Remember that once out of Central America you will generally not be able to use or exchange local currency (except at the border towns). Therefore you must make sure you spend/exchange/donate any left over money before leaving the country. US dollars and travellers cheques can be changed at Change Houses (Casas de Cambio), banks and border crossings. Change Houses are privately owned, usually have longer opening hours, attend to you faster than banks and have roughly the same exchange rate. Hotels/restaurants will sometimes change US$ cash, but at a much poorer rate. Airports are just about the only places in Central America where you can exchange currencies other than US$. Therefore it is recommended that you do not bring other currencies.
Often the easiest way to obtain local currency is to use the ATM machines (cajeros automaticos) located in most cities. Visa, Plus, and Cirrus/Maestro are accepted in most ATMs, as long as you have a 4 digit pin number. ATM machines will ONLY give you local currency. You should also be able to get a cash advance on a Visa Card at the bank. Note that some banks will require a copy of your passport.
Credit cards are accepted in some shops/restaurants/hotels. The most accepted credit card is Visa, although authorisation can sometimes be denied due to poor computer connections or other problems. Note there may sometimes be commission charged when paying by credit card (up to 8%).
Although bank cards are often the easiest way to go, there are times where they will not work for you even if your bank at home tells you it will. Do not rely on your card as your only source of money. Always have a few back-ups with you. In Guatemala and Mexico you will NOT be able to use US$ notes which are torn or marked even slightly. If your notes are at all damaged you may use them in Belize, but NOT in Guatemala or Mexico.
Traveller's cheques can be very time-consuming to cash in Central America and many personal details are required. If you choose to take them, make sure they are in US$ and 'American Express' cheques (they are by far the most widely accepted). They may also have a limit to the amount of US$ you can exchange. Always try to exchange as much as you can at one time and try to ask cashiers for small notes billetes pequeñas as you will find it very difficult to break large notes throughout Latin America. Always make sure you put your cash inside your money belt before you leave the premises. Pickpockets tend to loiter near banks and change houses.
The Pre-Departure Information contains general information about the things you will need to consider when budgeting for your holiday. Below are some specific notes relevant to our tours in Mexico, Guatemala, Belize.
There is no fee to enter Mexico by air, but crossing a land border will incur a US$23 fee to be paid at a Mexican bank or at the airport on departure.
There is a US$1 fee to enter Guatemala, and you are usually charged about US$2 to exit the country by land.
There is no fee to enter Belize, but a departure tax of approx. US$19 is applicable.
Adventurer style trips do not include any entrance fees. Please see your tour dossier for a guide of these expected costs. While you can always try, student prices are usually only available to the local people.
Some breakfasts, lunches and dinners are included in tour itineraries; however outside included meals you will have the freedom to explore your own lunch and dinner options. Approximate costs for meals in Central America are as follows:
For a guide to the type of food you will find in Central America see the Local Food & Drink section of this dossier.
Tea and coffee is provided with breakfast but all other drinks (i.e. bottled water and soft drinks) are at your own expense. Approximate costs for drinks bought in a shop in the street are shown below, but note that prices in restaurants and hotels can be as much as double those specified.
Local tap water is drinkable in Central America's major towns and resorts; however the same cannot be said of Central America's smaller villages. Caution should be taken not to drink surface water in remote regions. Bottled water, soft drinks and fruit juices are widely available throughout the country.
Taxis are recommended for all journeys within a city. Taxi meters are generally not in evidence, so you may have to haggle with the driver to agree upon the fare. This can be fun, but it is a good idea to find out in advance, from your tour leader or the hotel receptionist, approximately how much the fare should be. It will also help if you can speak a few words of Spanish. You will almost certainly have to accept that you will pay more than the locals do.
The Pre-Departure Booklet that you will receive once you have booked your tour contains a comprehensive list of items that you should consider bringing with you. Please also check your Trip Dossier for any special requirements.
The Imaginative Traveller Recommends: Bring a backpack or easy to carry luggage and travel light. You will have to carry your own luggage frequently – don't let this be an ordeal.
As a general guideline, clothing should be lightweight, loose fitting, hard-wearing and easily washed. In the hot summer months, cotton clothing is much more comfortable than man-made materials like nylon. Be prepared for cooler evenings - for this reason you will generally find it better to pack several thin layers rather than one thick layer. A fleece can be invaluable and double as a pillow. Water resistant jackets are essential during the rainy season between June and September.
Prepare Yourself
Whilst few of our tours can be described as physically demanding you will find all activities more enjoyable if you are reasonably fit and active.
Toilet Paper
Sometimes on tour toilets are not available. When you do answer the call of nature please bring your toilet paper back to the camp where it can be placed in a rubbish bin and disposed of appropriately or bury it.
Whenever you use a western or squat style toilet please place your toilet paper in the rubbish bin provided – DO NOT flush it down the toilet as this may block the sewerage system. You may also want to carry your own toilet paper as not all toilets will supply it.
The Imaginative Traveller Recommends: You may find it useful to take along a supply of antiseptic gel (i.e. water free soap) and plastic bags to put your toilet paper in if it cannot be burnt / placed in a bin.
Throwing rubbish on the floor may be acceptable to some locals, but please hold on to your waste until you find a litterbin or somewhere appropriate to dispose of it.
Wooden/stone carvings, leather, textiles, hammocks, blankets, wall hangings, gold, silver, jade, typical costumes and ceramic potteries are attractive, cheap and plentiful. The Highland area of Guatemala has by far the best bargains and most variety, due to the strong indigenous influence in this area (Antigua, Lake Atitlan and Chichicastenango). Bargaining is expected whilst shopping in the markets of Guatemala. In shops it is considered rude to bargain, but you can ask for a 'discount' ('descuento' in Spanish).
Bargaining is not common in Belize, as shops usually have set prices on goods. Belize is not known for its handicrafts and textiles as the neighbouring counties are, but you can find some nice hand-made jewellery in Caye Caulker. In San Ignacio you can buy some interesting 'rainforest remedies' (health products), and throughout Belize you can buy world-renowned reggae and Punta music CDs.
Bear in mind that it can be very expensive and not always reliable to send packages home, so try to buy only what you can carry home.
The Meeting Point for your tour should be clearly marked on your travel vouchers.
If you decide not to book a transfer with The Imaginative Traveller to/from Guatemala City airport and Antigua (45km from Guatemala City) you will need to arrange your own transport. Taxi services are readily available within the immediate vicinity of the airport. These taxi services will be cheaper than a pre-paid service, however you may have to face bargaining and language barriers with the driver. Guatemalan taxis do not have meters, so you should agree on a price before getting into the taxi.
A taxi to Antigua should cost between US$20-25, but of course they will try to charge you more. A shuttle bus should cost approx. US$10 per person, and they usually need at least three people to depart. Public buses are very cheap, but extremely difficult to take if you don't speak Spanish.
Please note: Driving time from Guatemala City to Antigua can take anything from 40mins to 2hrs depending on traffic and other circumstances. Whichever way you decide to make the journey, you should be prepared for Guatemalan drivers.
If you decide not to book an arrival transfer with The Imaginative Traveller to/from Cancún Airport (50km from Playa del Carmen) you will need to arrange your own transport. Official taxis (approx US$80 per taxi) do not have meters; however drivers will accept taxi vouchers sold at the official taxi stands. Note that taxis are much cheaper going in the opposite direction back to the airport (about US$40). The cheapest option is to take a bus. ADO has a non-stop bus service from the airport to Playa del Carmen bus terminal. The cost is only 85 pesos ($8.50) each way, and they run until late (the last bus from the airport leaves at 12:30 am). Note that this is different to the airport workers bus which discourages luggage. Catch this bus at Terminal 2, at the other end of the terminal from where international arrivals exit customs. You will then have to get a taxi from the Playa del Carmen bus terminal to the hotel which will cost roughly 10-20 pesos (US$1-2).
Crime in Latin America is not as bad as the region's reputation suggests but you still need to be sensible and alert. Like anywhere in the world, you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Care should be taken, especially whilst walking around the larger cities. Try to keep away from dark quiet areas if on your own, particularly late at night and try to always take a taxi. We suggest that whenever possible you leave all of your important documents in the safe ("caja fuertes"). However you should always carry some form of ID or a photocopy of your passport.
It is advisable not to wear expensive looking watches or jewellery. Keep your camera concealed when not in use. Remember that most thieves don't use violence but rely mostly on diversionary tactics which can take place at anytime of the day or night. Do not be paranoid, but just be aware that it could happen at anytime. Always be vigilant and the chances are nothing will ever happen to you. The safety of our passengers is our tour leaders' number one concern and they will provide all necessary local information during the pre-departure meeting.
Your Tour Leader's role is to ensure all aspects of the trip run smoothly. He/she will share their local knowledge, advise on how to fill your free time and co-ordinate the day to day running of the tour – although occasionally he/she may need your understanding if things do not go according to plan. If you have any problems on the tour, please let your Tour Leader know so that steps can be taken to put it right. Tour Leaders are supported by our regionally based office staff and, in most cases, a locally based manager.
Please note that some styles of trip, such as Imaginative Escapes or Imaginative Honeymoons, do not have a Tour Leader. However, there will be representatives on hand who will be able to assist you in arranging any excursions that you wish you take.
Our main criterion for choosing hotels is cleanliness. On Adventurer tours hotels are simple, but comfortable. Bathroom facilities may sometimes be shared and rooms may sometimes be multi share rather than twin. Hotels on Traveller tours almost always have private bathrooms, air conditioning and bar / restaurant facilities. Please bear in mind that hotels can sometimes suffer from minor problems and technical difficulties.
At each hotel your Tour Leader will try to organise the rooming arrangements to suit everyone's requirements. If you are travelling alone you will be allocated a room with another group member of the same sex (unless you have paid a single supplement). If you are travelling as a couple please note that we cannot guarantee the availability of double beds.
Note: Single supplements are only applicable to single travellers who wish to have their own room. Single supplements are also only available on Traveller tours and are not applicable on overnight boats, trains and while camping.
People are often surprised by the quality and variety on offer in Central America. This is partly due to the number of ex-pats who have opened up a range of different international restaurants. There is also local cuisine to suit every budget. Chicken, pork and beef are available throughout. Most meals come with corn tortillas and sometimes salad, but often lack hot vegetables. Although you might expect the food to be spicy in this region ('picante' in Spanish), this is not usually the case.
Corn (maize), is the staple diet of Central America's indigenous people and you will certainly get a lot of it. Mostly it comes in the form of tortillas which are flat pancake-like objects made of corn dough and grilled. The following are a few Central American specialties: Guatemalan enchiladas - Different to the Mexican enchiladas, these ones are more like western taco shells topped with chicken/pork, salad and cream. You can buy 3 for about US$2
Bistec or Pollo Asado - Beef steak or grilled chicken. These are common meals, usually served with tortillas, rice, spring onion, white cheese and salad. Prices average around US$3-5. Note that steak in Central America tastes good, but can be very tough.
Platanos Asados - (roasted bananas) These are topped either with sugar or cream (or both) for less than US$1 a serving. Keep in mind that the bananas aren't bananas proper...they are a type of plantain, very sweet tasting and are also often served with savoury meals.
There is some seafood available in Belize – particularly lobster and shrimp. Chicken and pork are also readily available as well as steak on the mainland. Most meals come with some kind of salad. Other common side dishes include coleslaw, potato salad, rice & beans and sweet fried bananas (platanos). You can get a very good, cheap set meal for lunch, as this is the main meal of the day. Apart from the delicious local food, there are also many international restaurants to be found in Belize. Italian, Chinese, Indian and Sri Lankan restaurants are abundant. Some examples of local foods include:
Lobster or Shrimp - grilled, fried, marinated, served with various sauces and spices – not to be missed. You will pay US$10-17 a plate, depending on how big the portions are. Lobsters are only in season from mid-June to mid-Feb. The conch (shellfish) season begins when the lobster season ends. Shrimp are usually available year-round.
Central American burritos are some of the best in the world. You can get vegetarian, chicken, shrimp or lobster fillings. (US$1.50 to $4 each)
There is a fantastic chilli sauce to be found on every Belizean restaurant table called 'Marie Sharp' – it comes in mild, hot and extra hot. Beware.
If you have any allergies to foods, please come prepared with a list to give to your tour leader who can then translate it into Spanish for you to show every waiter who takes your order. If you are vegetarian you must always specify "no carne / puerco / pollo / pescado" etc.
Fruit juice is really fresh and really cheap. Go to one of the many juice stands and ask for a "liquado de fruta" (fruit smoothie) or "jugo de naranja y zanahoria" (orange & carrot). Papaya, melon, watermelon, mango, and pineapple are very popular, but you can also get fun things like celery, beetroot, & chaya (a spinach-like leaf). Liquados can be made with either water or milk. Always specify if you don't want sugar ("sin azucar"). Latin Americans have a very sweet tooth and will usually automatically add the sugar.
Coke and Pepsi are everywhere. You will also find all sorts of orange, grape, lemon, and lime soft drinks ("Gaseosas"). "Agua Mineral" is sparkling water.
Generally speaking it's best not to expect good coffee/tea in this part of the world. Be warned that Americano (weak black coffee) is the most common, followed by "café con leche" (more like milk with a bit of coffee), and cappuccino (sometimes good). If you ask for tea ("té negro") you will get teabags. Always ask for "leche fria a parte" (cold milk on the side) as the alternative is likely to be a hot cup of milk with a tea bag inside.
If you only learn one word in Spanish it's bound to be "Cerveza" – beer. There are countless lagers, and a few dark beers. A beer will cost you anywhere between US$1.50 and $3. In Mexico the world-famous Corona with a lime wedged into the bottle neck will help quench the fiercest thirst, you also find other ones like 'Modelo' and 'XX'. In Guatemala, the most common beers are 'Gallo', maybe the best beer in Central America.
Belize beer is a little stronger in flavour than the other countries. 'Belekin Beer' is the National beer. It should cost you between US$1.50 and $2.
White rum (ron) is definitely the most commonly drunk spirit in Central America which is not known for its wine. It is best to order Chilean wine (although this may be expensive).
There are cheap and reliable internet cafés located throughout Mexico and Guatemala. The average cost is US$1.50 an hour.
In Belize internet cafés are not as numerous. When they can be found, prices are generally upwards of US$5 per hour.
Most public phones in Mexico only take Ladatel phone cards, priced at US$3-5. Privately run casetas or telephone booths where you pay after phoning are generally more expensive. Pre-paid Ekofon accounts are the cheapest way to contact home from Mexico. You can open your account from anywhere in the world, online.
To call overseas from Guatemala (and all of Central America) you must dial '00' followed by the country code, city code etc. There are very few Guatemalan international phone cards (although this may change in the future). The ones that are easy to find are the standard local cards you insert into the phone, but these cards are not recommended for international calls as they will run out very quickly! (E.g. a US$12 card will only give you a few minutes to most overseas numbers.)
Internet cafes offer international calls via the Internet. This is catching on throughout Guatemala and it should only cost you approx US 30c per minute.
The telephone network in Belize is often criticised for being ineffective but things are improving. Payphones and card phones are common in Belize City and some of the bigger towns. An international call to UK and Europe will cost approximately US$3 per minute; to the Americas, US$1.60 per minute; all other countries US$4 per minute.
One of the most common ways to explore Mexico's cities is by Turibus or tram tour. The Turibus hop-on hop-off double decker bus takes you around the city with a commentary in every language from 9am - 9pm every day. Tickets can be bought on board and cost US$10 (1 day), US$14 (2 days), US$18 (3 days). The tram tours also take you around the cities, but with a live commentary (English-speaking guide in some cities). Tickets are also bought on board for approx. US$3-7 per tour.
In some places you will have the opportunity to take a day excursion. Tours vary in price, usually approx US$30-40 for full day which would include the transfer to/from the hotel and an English-speaking guide.
Optional activities in Mexico include:
Please note: Some of the above may be paid in US$ cash, but the majority should be paid in quetzales.
Caye Caulker
Visit 3 snorkel spots including Shark and Ray Alley and Hol Chan Marine Reserve & Coral Gardens.
Visit the breeding and feeding area of the manatees (Sea Cows), a protected sea mammal. From there you go by boat to the deserted island of Goffs Caye where you anchor the boat and have time to swim, snorkel or just relax.
Includes the hiring of the boat with a guide, and all fishing tackle. The price includes up to 4 passengers.
This excursion takes you out to sea and goes to 3 contrasting dive sites. You must already have your dive licence and the excursion will only go on days when there are enough people to fill the boat. There are also other cheaper dive options on offer.
San Ignacio
This is one of the most fascinating and adventurous things you can do on this leg of the tour. You will be taken by 4WD vehicle to the point where you must walk 45mins to the cave. You enter the cave by wading through the river, once inside you reach dry land and see the remains of Mayan ceremonial sites. This includes pottery and skeletons which you can walk right up to and which your guide will explain in full. The tour includes all equipment, lunch and guides. An unforgettable experience.
Visit the Thousand Foot Falls, the Rio On Pools, the Mountain Pine Ridge Reserve and the Rio Frio Cave. A relaxing day out, with very little trekking involved.
Float on your tube down the river through caves. Some small rapids, but not difficult. A really fun day out!
Please note: All of these excursions include guides and transport. You may pay in US$/BZ$ cash, traveller cheques or Visa/Mastercard (credit cards are subject to a 5% fee).
The wet season throughout Central America starts around May/June and gradually finishes in September or October. The only place where rain is almost guaranteed is Rio Dulce, located in the middle of the rainforest. Here the rainy season sometimes continues until February. The temperatures in Central America are similar to other northern hemisphere countries, where it's warmer in summer (July/August) and cooler in winter (December/January). In the highlands, temperatures at night are quite cool (Antigua, Lake Atitlan and especially Quetzaltenango). Dec/Jan nights in the highlands can drop to freezing. Generally, the hottest time in Central America will be the months of April to May (before the rain comes!).
The following shows average daytime temperatures in degrees celcius:
Guatemala City
Jan | Feb | Mar | Apr | May | June | July | Aug | Sept | Oct | Nov | Dec |
22 | 22 | 25 | 26 | 28 | 26 | 25 | 25 | 25 | 25 | 23 | 22 |
Belize City
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The Choking Game—Do You and Your Child Know the Deadly Dangers?
A Pine-Richland parent discovers a video on his child's cell phone showing teens participating in the dangerous activity, also known as the Pass-Out Game.
First in a Series "It looked like she was dying right in front of us." That's what a Pine-Richland father said after recently watching a video of his daughter playing the Pass-Out Game with a group of friends from middle school. He saw his child hyperventilating, then someone grabbing his daughter from behind and squeezing until she passed out. The PR parent said it took only seconds for his teenage daughter to wake up, but watching it felt like an eternity. The father, who asked for his name and that of his daughter to be withheld, said he recently found the recording during a routine check of the teen's cell phone. Also known as the Choking Game, the Pass-Out Game is anything but a game. It is more aptly described as a strangulation …
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October 17 2012
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This forum is based around the AS 2067-2008 HV standard which provides minimum requirements for the design and installation of high voltages above 1kV (ac) so as to provide safe functioning in operation. This topic will be of special interest to the electrical engineering community of Australia, as regulators are demanding continual improvement in safety outcomes in this area.
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These Ash wedge sneakers are the definition of comfort and style, made with soft distressed leather. A Velcro® strap secures the lace-up closure. Hidden wedge heel and dirtied rubber sole.
Leather: Sheepskin.
This item cannot be gift-boxed.
Heel: 3in / 75mm
Shaft: 4in / 10cm
Leather: Sheepskin.
This item cannot be gift-boxed.
Heel: 3in / 75mm
Shaft: 4in / 10cm
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FIT: This shoe is available in whole sizes only. If you wear a half size, please size down.
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8 | 5 | 8 | 38 | 24.5 | 24.6 | |
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10 | 7 | 10 | 40 | 26 | 26.2 | |
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Established in Europe in 2000, designer Patrick Ithier's Ash is sophisticated and chic. Always keeping with classic, European design, Ash flirts with the boundary between refined elegance and on-trend precision. Well-designed and well-made, Ash shoes are like a Chanel suit: they'll remain a wardrobe staple for years.
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9 reviews
Size UP not Down!!!
In my opinion this sneakers run Small!!! I did follow Shopbop advice and did size down.... It was the opposite! I wish i had order bigger size, returned immedietly.
Sizing: Smaller than Expected
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very good!
I like them so much!
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Comfortable and Chic!
Love my Ash Wedge Sneakers! These are really perfect for city living, since they have both height and comfort. I am very petite and am usually stuck wearing flats while I'm walking around the city. Finally a comfortable and cool shoe that gives me the height I can use! The leather is also a very supple leather...very good quality. These stand out!
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ash sneakers
love these sneakers, I wear them everywhere. they'er great when you want the comfort of a sneaker but want to punch it up with a heel : )
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More than happier!
Supple leather, great height, stylish... this sneaker truly lives up all the claims in the description. I actually ordered another two pairs of Ash's Bea Wedge Sneakers which I love so much as well, but this one definitely is my favoriate after struggling two days of deciding to keep which one.
The differences between this and Ash's Bea Wedge are: first, material. Cool one uses sheepskin which is even softer, lighter while Bea uses calfskin and sudes at the edges. if you like the look of shinny new sneaker, you can choose Bea but for me, i prefer the distressed look; second, style. The head of the Cool is round, just like your normal regular nike sneakers while Bea has a little bit spear head, more like a bootie than a sneaker. I like both, honestly saying. I am 5'4, the spear head makes me looks a bit taller. However, the tricky part is, although both models have the same heel height, the Cool one's head is a bit elevated which makes the wearing even comfy.
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Love, love, love
Love my ASH sneaks. So comfy - I wear all around the city in them. They go with almost everything!
Sizing: Smaller than Expected
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once i made my peace with paying my credit card and not splurging on a pair of isabel marant's ... i was quite pleased with this purchase! such a cute shoe, super comfortable and pretty versatile in my wardrobe. the leather is soft and supple and has a distressed look to it. overall good purchase!
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Nice sneakers
Good quality. The leather are soft. The wedges are a bit higher than I thought.
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Fab sneakers!
I've lusted after Isabel Marant wedge sneakers for the last couple of seasons but just couldn't justify the pricetag. I spotted these here on Shopbop about a month ago and have been um-ing and ah-ing over whether or not they would fit in with my style and wardrobe. I decided to order them as I kept thinking about them, and they arrived to me today - I could not be happier with my purchase! They are even nicer in real life than in the photos! Super comfy, I've tried them with and without socks and both options work well. The height is great for wearing all day to give you a lift without having crippled feet at the end of the night. The leather is nice and soft and has the perfect amount of distressing to it (you know when you get new sneakers and they're too 'new looking' and need to be worn in a bit? Well these come ready distressed which is great)! Will probably order another pair in a lighter colour as I already know I wont be taking these babies off all year :)
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PRADAXA (DABIGATRAN ETEXILATE) remains under close watch by prescribers that know, or have seen, "safety signals" and red-flags associated with use of the drug. A recently released report from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP): QuarterWatch, Monitoring FDA MedWatch Reports, Anticoagulants the Leading Reported Drug Risk in 2011, May 31, 2012, evaluates new data from 2011 for the 3rd and 4th Quarters. The reports opens by noting that "the most frequently identified suspect drugs in direct reports to the FDA were the anticoagulants dabigatran (PRADAXA) and warfarin (COUMADIN)". Ironically, PRADAXA has been marketed as a novel replacement for COUMADIN which has been in use for over 1/2 a century. Whether the results should simply raise more red flags or be interpreted as alarming is subject to interpretation. Regardless, here is the sum of ISMP's findings and numbers. Please note that, these are "reported" and there is no way to account for yet to be reported, or never reported events:
- 817 where PRADAXA (DABIGATRAN) was the leading suspect in a direct report to the FDA in 2011.
- 3,781 domestic, serious adverse events overall in 2011 including both manufacturer and direct reports.
- 542 patient deaths.
- 2,367 reports of hemorrhage – outpacing all other regularly monitored drugs.
- 291 acute renal failure.
- 644 strokes.
- 15 cases where it was suspect in liver failure.
Comparisons to WARFARIN (COUMADIN) are inevitable as it has been the generic anti-coagulant of choice since 1954 and remains a mainstay in therapy. It accounted for 1,106 cases overall in 2011 and 72 deaths according to ISMP.
You have to openly wonder whether or not "PRADAXA is PROGRESS" as claimed in the aggressive direct to consumer marketing campaigns that bombarded the airwaves and remain available on line.
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We are actively investigating, and representing, survivors of deceased family members that used PRADAXA (DABIGATRAN) since October 2010. We are also evaluating and investigating cases involving serious personal injuries, or injuries resulting in disabilities from use of PRADAXA (DABIGATRAN). A FREE CASE EVALUATION is available through use of the contact form below.


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By Mr. Winslow of Norfolk, a petition (accompanied by bill, House, No. 2492) of Daniel B. Winslow and others relative to collective bargaining and management rights of public employees. Public Service.
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Sunday, August 09, 2009
The 'Anti-indecency' Campagin and Cultural Dialog
So this whole anti-indecency campaign got me thinking: why is there a cultural clash here? The components are obvious, a large ratio of the UAE's citizens feel uncomfortable with the collective dressing habits of the expatriates. One culture is feeling apprehensive of the other. It accuses the other of being inconsiderate and insensitive. On the other hand, and although it's wrong to portray the expatriate population as a monolith, I'm going to assume their reactions are uniform: so they retort by stating that the rules aren't clearly displayed, the laws aren't well known, some of them assert that they are free to wear what they like ..etc..
To me, there seem to be something missing here. Questions aren't being asked. Words aren't being exchanged. Probably due to fatigue or wariness or apathy. But these, in my inexperienced opinion, are important and vital questions. Starting with the issue of imposing a formula of decent closing, one has to wonder how can we, as Muslims, demand that people dress to our liking, when we vehemently protest Sarkozi's statements and the head cover ban in France? What's our contention when we protest these rules? Isn't it that we think that people are FREE to wear whatever they like? and that we always never fail to counter by asking the obvious question: why should my sister's Hijab offend you? I mean, we DO ask these questions, don't we?
Similarly, aren't people who, according to you, are wearing indecent clothing FREE to wear whatever they like? and if your answer is no, then aren't they entitled to an explanation? Why is what a woman or man-- whose culture is obviously different to you, why is what their wear is a source of chagrin and discomfort to you? why is it offensive? Why are their actions, when they're totally irrelevant to your well being or to your physical existence, matter so much to you?
Although I come from a conservative family, I am not overly religious, so I posed these questions to a colleague of mine. Y isn't even an Emirati, he's a Jordanian national and a provider of a small family. He recounted for me once how he'd been in the Emirates Mall with his family –wife, 12 years old daughter, 8 years old son—and this guy starts fondling and kissing a girl on a bench in the walkway across Carrefure. He told me he wanted to walk up to him and give him an earful, except that he was tired and busy with his purchases. I asked him why did he feel offended or disturbed by what he'd seen, since it doesn't at all affect him (all he's got to do with the action is that he can see it). He said that it's not 'healthy' for his daughter, who is very near her puberty, to see such affection in action. I told him that he's having unrealistic expectations of the world when he demands that nothing unhealthy (again, according to him) be exhibited anywhere near his daughter. He said that unlike most of other unhealthy actions in the universe, body exposure and display of affection stir up certain desires in human beings that are better kept in check. And that SATAN will play unfair games with the feeble minds, and seeing such scenes doesn't help at all……
I had no further questions of Y.
On the other hand, one could very much ask: why do you, western (or generally foreign) expatriates and tourists, choose to wear revealing clothes? I understand that this is probably entrenched in your culture so deeply that you don't question it anymore, but come on, think of something. Also, is your culture really totally sexually permissive? What's your definition of 'decency'? What do you know about the Arabic/Muslim view of decency?
Before wrapping up, let me just reiterate that it's not me who's asking the questions or who's expected to come up with answers. I, personally, don't feel offended either way. Strip off naked and walk by me in the food court and I won't feel offended (it would be nice if you could cover your pubes though, I don't fancy motes of hair landing in my Humos): I'm just posing these questions in this context because this is how I think we could have a real dialog. Everything else is a photo-Op or a missing opportunity.
35 comments:
- the real nick said...
No, not everyone in Europe dresses like a gangbanger or slut although this seems to be par for the course for the twentysomething oversexed celebrity obsessed Big Brother generation; Incidentally lots of those people came to Dubai recently to work as financial advisors and quantity surveyors. Then there are of course the Lebanese gold diggers looking for a meal ticket and the Russian working girls.
But yes, we do not have hang ups in the West about public display of affection or the odd naked tit poppin out(within limits - a Michelle Palmer beach sex romp is illegal anywhere I know of).
And despite all that, shock horror, we are still the epicentre of modern, peaceful human civilization whilst regions populated by cavemen like your colleague remain mired in oppression and wars. But I digress.
Jazz, the discontent amongst expats regards the inconsistency of the local government.
On one hand there is clearly nothing being done about rampant prostitution and the associated human trafficking in Dubai. There are bars everywhere. Obnoxious behaviour by the local youth on their quadbikes and on Beach road goes totally unpunished - in short, there is a whole lot of filth and indecency going on in Dubai in broad daylight. Of course, two wrongs don't make a right: just because there is prostitution it doesn't follow that one can run around naked.
But a government that is not consistent in its actions loses credibility and respect and it subject to deserved ridicule, as we can see. - August 09, 2009 10:24 AM
- BuJassem said...
i think it's only a problem if we make it a problem.
if we were more open culturally, we'd find that many of those beastly fondling and kissing giants are very keen to learn about islam and arab-ness.. as well as emirati culture.
we should engage them more..
there's no need for laws here.. it's a cultural matter.
leave communism behind. - August 09, 2009 11:23 AM
- KJ said...
real nick said it better than I would have said it. It's all double+ standards here, and no one utterly knows what's going on - so it's pretty much a "you can do whatever till you're caught" kind of deal.
- August 09, 2009 1:17 PM
- rosh said...
Yes, nicely said Nick. Couldn't have said it better. What you're saying is what these people should hear and take on. Perhaps cross-post to UAECB.
- August 09, 2009 10:48 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Herr Nick,
While I agree with some of what you said, you still fail on so many levels.
First, how could you, without knowing the guy, assume that my colleague is a 'caveman'?
Secondly, 'peaceful human civilization' my ass. At the first sign of rising unemployment, citizens of Iceland and Greece smashed into banks and plundered shops and stores. Some civility, huh?
Your problem, on both the above contentious points, is that you appoint yourself as the morally superior among the lot. Heck, even though I agree with you on the freedom to wear whatever a guy/gal likes, I can't disagree more with your rather silly inference that liberal clothing leads to peace or that conservative clothing breeds war hungry people.
Thirdly, I'm not discussing the consistency of the government's policies. I've linked, through the UAECB, to a newspaper article that shows the Emirati point of view. These are the people speaking. If you want to know where they stand on prostitution (although I suspect you already know), you might research articles or ask Nationals you know. It might help expand your narrow-minded point of view. - August 09, 2009 11:41 PM
- programmer craig said...
But there's an important proviso for dialog; it has to be honest. You can conduct hundreds of conferences, shake hands, exchange words of flattery and diplomacy, but you won't get anywhere unless you ask each other the honest questions.
I disagree. I would say that the dialog has to be sincere. In other words, it has to be honest AND there has to be a willingness to compromise, from both parties. If there is no possibility of compromise, there is no reason for dialog. Such "dialog" is little more than self-righteous posturing, where both sides put forward their positions and lay out their grievances, and then walk away. - August 09, 2009 11:56 PM
- programmer craig said...
PS-A "dialog" where one side is expected to make all the concessions is nothing more than coercion. And that type of dialog is not only a waste of time, it is counter-productive in that it only adds to the grievances the other side has against you.
- August 09, 2009 11:59 PM
- Allie said...
I think the problem lies in variable definitions of the concept of "decency." For example, I usually wear jeans and tank tops; all of my private areas are covered (and therefore I am dressed with decency), but I'm comfortable in the 100+ degree, super-high humidity weather. It would not occur to me to dress differently unless there was a considerable and obvious difference in either the weather or in the culture.
However, if I go to synagogue (a place where there's a considerable difference in culture from the secular world) I'm going to put on clothes that also cover much of my arms and collarbone, as well as a skirt that's not especially form fitting, because a religious setting has a different standard of what is considered "decent."
People tend to be egocentric and ethnocentric, believing that only their cultural mores are truly valid. This works really well when the only people we (editorial sense) encounter are people who share identical cultural mores, but does tend to cause conflict when we encounter cultures that don't agree w/ our ideas. It manifests in sad displays of intolerance such as the head cover banning, or conversely people being upset when they see people who AREN'T covered. These kinds of conflicts will continue until people make a conscious effort to appreciate and understand the differences that exist from culture to culture, rather than attempting to force others to conform to their own ideas.
An interesting conversation I observed recently along this same topic was about swimsuits. Some Orthodox women were discussing where to get swimsuits that weren't indecent. There was mention of a few websites where you could order suits, and one person said they didn't feel comfortable wearing the ones that are sold to Muslim women because they felt that while the suits were more functional as well as cute/attractive/beautiful/pick-an-adjective, the form-fitting nature of the suits made them too inherently revealing to be considered decent. I thought this was pretty interesting, since both the Jewish and Muslim cultures place a HIGH emphasis on decency in how one dresses, but even minute differences in how one culture observes that standard could invalidate it for another one.
Anyway, it's kind of moot since it's unlikely we'll be making the world a more tolerant place anytime soon, but I thought I'd mention it because I found it fascinating. - August 10, 2009 12:17 AM
- rosh said...
Relax DJ, nick is being ...you know..a dick when he talks about "we are still the epicentre of modern, peaceful human civilization" - there's the good, the bad and the stupid in every society. That said - "Thirdly, I'm not discussing the consistency of the government's policies"
BUT - the government is all that MATTERS. We all know the majority of Emi folk (nope, not the nouveau rich / fake ones) but the real folks, are some of the nicest / warmest / giving people you shall find in the Arab world. They are simple in their ways of life, very down to earth, peaceful and conservative. I appreciate what DXB has done for the economy and sort of placing the nation on the world map, but I hate what it has done to the soul of the once beautiful simple place. I have a lot of respect for the real people in that land. However, they have little or no voice when it comes to having and enforcing laws. It is the UAE government. Hence I agree with what Nick said.
And you know what is the SADDEST part of all - UAE does not need these sort of tourists / gold diggers / whores and what else have you. There are tons of educated, worldly and worthy people in that land - nationals / expats. Only if UAE truly had confidence in itself - in the people that truly built / make up the back bone of its economy, its identity, its future and just about everything else the world identifies UAE with. In short, stop whoring out -- look within, create dialogue, reach out, be aware and respectful of who you are. It's one way to create solidarity and confidence.
As for another lousy "media campaign" - the less said, the better. - August 10, 2009 5:50 AM
- programmer craig said...
- This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
- August 10, 2009 10:09 AM
- the real nick said...
First of all I think that - seen fifteen years on- Samuel Huntington was spot on the money. clashes mostly arise from differences in civilizations; and that includes the way dialogue is being conducted. That's the clue here. Dubai's government is not consistent in the way they communicate with the great unwashed expat community. Maybe, in cultural terms, this is in line with their (perceived) higher social ranking of authority. Tey are, after all, not accountable and chose to communictae when and how they see fit. Occasionally, that is, and hapazardly - because there is no mechanism in place for review of laws and regulations, as there is in a democratic society.
So, I think the issue is NOT the definition of decency. And the issue is NOT what the "Emiratis" are thinking. Thye may well define the laws of the country, but it is up to their government to stake out clearly the legal perimeters of this country and guard them.
The issue is the lack of communication and lack of sincerity in dialogue as Programmer Craig (my old neo-con libertarian foe) suggests.
The impression is that the government talks "down" to the people whenever it likes to.
This is no way to conduct a sincere dialogue - and voila' - you have a clash (of opinions). - August 10, 2009 11:11 AM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Once again, you're missing the point. So let me reiterate: I'm not critiquing the Dubai government. This blog isn't the "Dubai government watch" blog. I'm not discussing that, period. Governments will change policies all the time. And when we talk about culture, do we also refer to governments' positions as well? Culture has little to do with how governments react and set out their policies.
So in other words: is it acceptable to you when the government permits something but citizens end up resenting it? even though Dubai government has been, for long time, lenient toward the way expat dress (and even behave), that doesn't mean nationals are happy about it. So when you conduct a cultural dialog: who do you talk to? A government press attaché? - August 10, 2009 12:13 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
I think this issue is more pronounced in Dubai because it's a transient city. Even in the US, where there are several cultures and norms at play, one could use discretion as to what to wear and when to wear it. This discretion is precarious in Dubai. Or let's just say everyone has a different discretional reference than everybody else. This is what gets people confused.
To regulate, though (legalize or legalize certain outfits) would be ridiculous. Let people wear what they please! If they get stared at or ridiculed, then they will use their discretion the next time around. Applying the law in this case, as Bu Jassem said, is somewhat dictatorial. - August 10, 2009 12:24 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Programmer Craig,
I liked your first couple of comments and agree with them. They are inline with what I've said in the post, anyway. But, please refrain from derailing the discussion with silly comments. Remember, takes only two clicks. - August 10, 2009 12:26 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Huh? I'm relaxed. I just like to take a jab at Nick whenever he utters something stupid. lol! - August 10, 2009 12:27 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Bu Jassem,
Hala wallah, agree wholeheartedly. - August 10, 2009 12:33 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
Let me expand on that a little: you can do whatever, get caught, and then get away with it, as long as you know the right people! - August 10, 2009 12:35 PM
- programmer craig said...
It takes 0 clicks for me not to come to your blog :p
Delete as you wish. No matter to me. I don't live in the ME, and don't intend to ever change that. Not as long as BuJ comments are considered valuable, and mine are considered silly. Because that's just ridiculous. BuJ has never said anything valuable in his life. - August 10, 2009 1:50 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
you're always welcome to this blog. Just one rule, please no ad hominem comments toward any of my fellow blogger and friends. In all of your deleted comments you were calling names.
And btw, I'd do the same if you were the target. - August 10, 2009 3:21 PM
- Allie said...
Yeah, I agree. Regulating attire is ridiculous. People will figure out on their own quickly enough what's appropriate to wear at any given situation (or in any given locality). - August 10, 2009 9:07 PM
- the real nick said...
Well, Jazz, then it is you who's missing the point. Discuss decency as much as you like, but the issue is the lack of clear communication form the government.
Let me put it this way: people by and large follow whatever rules prevail. Western expats in Singapore don't jaywalk, don't throw chewing gum and cigarette butts because they know the punishment could be draconian. Full stop. Our(western) sensibilities are not set in stone; they are flixible and can adapt if we (western expats) are given clear guidance.
The problem is that the government here does not say clearly what it means and doesn't mean what it says. No wonder they are misunderstood.
Culture has little to do with how governments react and set out their policies.
Huh? This is nonsense, Jazza, and you know that. Time to read your Huntington again. Or ask your friend Ahmedinejad. And puhleeze do not tell me that the Pali/ Israeli conflict has only got to do with land.... - August 11, 2009 10:09 AM
- Dubai Jazz said...
First, with regards to Huntington, I have to say that there might be 'some' grain of truth to his speculations. But his whole theory strikes me as opportunistic and over the top. Why, for instance, did he tie up his hypothesis with a time frame that is set AFTER the cold war? So in other words; what's new about the contrasts of cultures that suddenly make them more pronounced and elevated to the level of conflict? (AFTER the cold war)
Your citing of Singapore is irrelevant, and shows that you're still not catching up on the subject of dialog. What makes you expect that you, as a foreigner to both countries, could conduct your business and go about your life similarly in both of them? You do know there are unwritten laws here, don't you? You do know that when the law implores you, as an expat, to respect cultural sensitivities in certain cases, the same law doesn't go on and explain all the cultural sensitivities that had ever existed. You learn that by research and interaction, by dialog.
Again, I'd like to ask the same question that you've dodged earlier:
When you conduct a cultural dialog: who do you talk to? - August 11, 2009 10:36 AM
- the real nick said...
Re. Huntington's premise starting after the cold war: because that (the crumbling of communism) marked the end of the clash of ideologies as defining the attitudes of a nation state, by and large. Culture became instantly the way of defining identity; for example the several wars that broke out in former Soviet states from Chechniya, Georgia etc. were culturally motivated and the Soviet was no longer there to rein them in. The same happened in the former Yugoslavia.
With regard to your - forced- distinction between government and cultural sensitivities of the people I think you miss one point -with particular relevance to the UAE: As far as I am aware there is no laicism in Islam - no clear and statutory division between state and religion.
The state is also the representative and custodian of religious law. (More obvious in extreme cases like Iran).
This is why I put the blame for not having clearly defined the boundaries of acceptable social behaviour and attitudes in the court of the state / government. They are after all the self appointed (if unelected) custodians of morals and they should clarify laws, and then enforce them.
So, to answer your question: in an Islamic state the cultural dialogue has to be between the government and the (expat) community. In a Western democratic environment this dialogue would be between the people of different provenance, and, by election and thus political influence, the practical outcome of this dialogue at street level would inform future policies by statute, if adopted by the parliament.
Here, there is NO dialogue between expats and state.
(Come to think of it: this is what this country needs: an expat union, or an Austro-Syrian-Indian tribal council) - August 11, 2009 3:32 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
I still can't see how the Russian-Georgian or the Serbo-Croatian conflicts could have had cultural elements. What's so stark a difference between the Serbs and the Croats that made them stump the snot out of each other? I don't think culture has much to do with that; I see these two conflicts as natural outcome for when people scramble to delineate their respective states based on, admittedly, ethnic lines. But ethnicity doesn't entail cultural differences…..
As for laicism in Islam, well the ocean is the limit when it comes to interpretations. But if the current status of law in most of Muslim countries is anything to go by, then Islamic laws (or Sharia laws) are only limited to personal status laws and such. Religious edicts and statutory laws intertwine in no clear pattern. The ruler is not a source of religious authority, nor Muslim scholars are vested with any power to rule. Bottom line is: there is no hard and fast rules. States chose to meet religious requisites at some points, and divert from them at others.
Another thing that seems to muddle the conversation here: it's mostly assumed that religion is the single most powerful component of culture here. It's most definitely not: even in Saudi Arabia, there's a dominant tribal structure that almost contradict Islam altogether. i.e. certain tribes can not marry from certain tribes….. and even in cases when that happened, I've seen many announcements where the head of tribe annuls such marriages (because such unions might disturb the becking order). They probably have the legal power to do that. Or they could simply disown the tribe member. In any case this whole thing has nothing to do with Islam. Prophet Mohammad told the believers that they are all equal like the teeth of a comb. The Saudis console themselves by relying on old interpretation of one of marriage conditions: equivalence. So they consider social status, and in this case tribal status, as part of this equivalency. You see what I'm getting at? This is a case where culture, the tribal one in particular, trumps religion.
So in short, culture here is composed of many factors, religion is only one of them. Government job is to issue laws; they don't owe you explanations. If you want further information or if you want to debate, you should talk to the intellectuals, scholars, university teachers.. etc.. maybe go the extra mile and learn the language and its dialects, listen to radio and read what the Emiraties are talking about on online forums. But you have done none of that, I don't blame you, there's currently no incentives, unless you have a knack for these kind of things…… - August 12, 2009 9:14 AM
- the real nick said...
I still can't see how the Russian-Georgian or the Serbo-Croatian conflicts could have had cultural elements...
Those were distinct countries with different languages and even differnent religious majorities before they were cobbled together in the Soviet union, or Yugoslavia, and after the decease of communism as political / ideological glue they reverted back to those lines.
True, some ethnicities share similar culture, but of course ethnicity is related to culture (e.g. language) and religion, not just race.
Government job is to issue laws; they don't owe you explanations.
Spoken like a perfect citizen - intimidated, beaten, downtrodden, ignored by his government. NO, Jazz. IF the UAE wants expats, and they not just want us but most desperately need us, then they have an obligation to explain and interact and engage in dialogue to expats. Life's a two way street. Ironically, Dubai acknowledges this by appointing a global PR company to reowrk the brand. They should start at home. - August 12, 2009 11:19 AM
- Dubai Jazz said...
You must be confusing me with someone else, I'm a citizen of the Syrian Arab Republic, not the United Arab Emirates!
And yes, I believe that the UAE government doesn't have to explain to exapts its decisions, or convince them of them. Imagine having to tune yourself into the mentality of 190 nationalities, it doesn't work that way, I think.
Again, want to find explanations, it's more productive to interact with nationals, maybe learn Arabic and read Emarat Al Yoom daily. I'm not making fun of you, I'd do the same if I was you. (how long have you been here, btw? ;) ) - August 12, 2009 3:37 PM
- the real nick said...
Ah, yes, pardon me, Syria. That shining example of citizen engagement and democratic participation...
I have seven years Dubai under my belt, young man. Maybe I am having the "seven year itch" these days.
Where I can't reach. - August 12, 2009 4:28 PM
- rosh said...
"I believe that the UAE government doesn't have to explain to expats its decisions, or convince them of them"
Mr Jazz - that's not a very nice (or wise) thing to say, you know. Only if you'd lived through the experiences of what most folks in the UAE have prior to the federation coming together. And I'm not speaking from an "Expat" (I hate that fucking word) - but also of the true blue "authentic" Emirati stateless folk. The UAE government (whomever that might be at the very top), I think, should have an honest face to face dialogue with those who truly make up and made that country what it is today. It's the least they can do. I don't think they know the kind of people that make up the society or the kind of people that travel into the country. And I say this from reading comments of most citizens as well as from the statements of folks in the government. They seem oblivious to many aspects / factors.
I agree with almost everything Nick has to say (except of course the west being all that perfect stuff, it's not)
"An expat union, or an Austro-Syrian-Indian tribal council"
I'm not sure of Austro, there's just so few of them or about the Indians - way too many with vested interests (bite me). I'd say an Emi-EU-UAEian council ha! The UAEian encompassing of course, all ethnicities -- Arab, African, Asian, Persian and then some :) - August 12, 2009 6:04 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
That might have been a bit harsh, it was a part of a sentence in a sequence of thoughts. So What I must have meant to say is that UAE or Dubai's government isn't obliged to convince expats of its decisions.
Nick brings up good points, from the point of view of an uninitiated expat. My gripe with his perspective is that he's totally reliant on the government to inform him about the culture, this will not happen. All of my expat friends that have learned arabic, or learned substantially about the culture, have done so on their own. - August 12, 2009 9:39 PM
- the real nick said...
Your last statement is a silly cheap shot ad hominem to discredit my argument. We are not talking about me in particular having to learn about the local culture but the relationship between government and the expat population at large, and the absence of clear markers and dialogue as equals.
You obviously completely fail to understand this expectancy on part of the western expat population because you have no idea how a "western" mind works, or you have never lived outside the Middle East and you are simply used to being talked down to by a government rather than engaged, and being repressed in a myirad of small ways and daily ground down into obliging compliance, or resignation.
But I am glad you are happy this way. It saves you a lot of headache. - August 13, 2009 10:51 AM
- Dubai Jazz said...
It's interesting that you accuse me of cheap shot ad hominems when the second paragraph of your very comment (as well as many other previous comments on this post and other) is nothing but hominem!
OK. So you really thought the discussion was about western expats? Who told you that? what about expats from the far-east? Don't they probably have different concept about decency that Arabs? How about expats from FSU? Or Africa? Or Latin America? Or is it enough, according to you, to address western expats and the rest can go to hell? - August 13, 2009 4:03 PM
- Dubai Jazz said...
And Nick,
No, I haven't lived in the west for long stints, but it's still very interesting that I know more about western culture (in the broad sense) than you entire accumulative knowledge about Arab culture in the 7 years you've spent here. This isn't ad hominem btw, this is the case of probably 99% of 'western' expats. So it's kind of rich that YOU end up accusing the government of not reaching out to you.
Such 'expectancy' huh? - August 13, 2009 4:10 PM
- rosh said...
Stop it you two -- don't make me come down there! :p Though, I think people can read between the lines - you guys actually AGREE with each other, barring the low balls.
- August 13, 2009 6:09 PM
- BuJassem said...
i was going to suggest to those two love birds to GET A ROOM.. and battle it out there!!!
yeah, coz at the end u guys agree about almost everything, except the size of dem colhones :) - August 14, 2009 4:11 PM
I love the premise of the post and I was able to get about halfway through the comments before the point seemed to drift. I love dialogue. I like clearly written and fairly enforced laws. I believe everyone - visitor, resident and citizen has a right to know what to expect as a consequence of behavior. There are just too many inconsistencies around and let's admit to the elephant in the room. It's awkward to have decency laws in a state where its leaders abuse their power with girlfriends, boyfriends and other no-nos. You may not be able to publish this. That's ok. I just think that therein lies the problem. Some people are just fed-up with the double standard and some genuinely are unaware. Of course, some don't care but they are never the ones that stay very long.
- August 27, 2009 5:22 PM


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