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Faust: The Prison (Kerker) Scene: A Commentary (Kerker – Szenenanalyse)
Wednesday, April 11th, 2012(Das ist meine Analyse der Kerkerszene (die Schlußszene) aus Goethes »Faust: Der Tragödie Erster Teil«. Wenn Sie Englisch nicht sprechen, können Sie die Folgenden auf Google übersetzen. Danke.)
Having read some of Goethe, but also having read Faust many times over two decades, I can humbly offer that the Kerker scene in Faust Part I is, like the first movement of the 5th symphony, perfect in its structure, immaculate in its detail, resonatingly powerful in its connections and conclusions.
Here, generations have found that theme rolls upon theme, idea falls upon idea, reality and possibility intertwine; the highest (and lowest) human things coalesce in one passionate drama with its detailed picture of existence that moves, and continues to move and improve, the greatest of minds the world over.
If you have read Faust, I must ask, and if you have not, I must tell: What facet of human existence does not figure in the Kerker scene? For the ordinary reader, drama versus reality. For Gretchen, the tragic female protagonist, Reality versus Wish. Wish versus further reality (for Mephistopheles, the truest devil we have yet seen). For the Angels, that same "further" versus the Lord's ultimate impulse. Death and life; fear and courage. Day and night; routine and instinct. Tragedy and comedy versus resignation and disbelief. Repeats of a theme versus staccato sentimentality. Male versus female; fight versus flight; Being versus Doing. God versus the Devil, intuition versus reason, Yes against No, all presented in a physical setting that seems impossible except by divine intervention, affording four elements as I see it: The climax of the romantic drama, the setting for the ethereal beginning of Faust Part II, the ultimate meaning of romantic love, and the final pronouncement on Man's Hand in the state of things.
Those who have not read the great man might ask, How can all this possibly come together? Those who have read Goethe might ask, if they have not dwelt upon it long enough: "The Kerker scene is the conclusion of part I, but what is superhuman about it – the superhuman being addressed, so to speak, in Part II?" To answer both those questions is the following compilation of points of comparison.
I offer these points and the following prose as a mere guide to those who might not have dwelt upon the matter long enough; Goethe did say, as we know: "Why have I sought my path with care, if not to bring my brothers there?" (Wayne's translation.)
It is the comparisons between entities – comparisons apparent by contrasting dialogues across contexts – that are Goethe's key to meaning here. There are a few other elements, notably individual focus:
1. Mephistopheles, the spirit of denial, is ever focused on the present, with himself as centre.
2. Faust, the aspiring but yet incomplete man, is ever focused on the future, with himself as centre – and with his unconscious focus being the power that Mephistopheles grants him.
3. Gretchen, here the archetypal woman (albeit one who is in the deepest immediate distress), is focused on past/present/future; she might have been the centre, but Faust affects all her aspects in a manner that she sees as good, but which she knows inwardly is doomed. In fact, therefore, the centre for her is the Faust/Gretchen union.
For the following, I am referring to the voices as in the production with Gründgens as Mephistopheles, Will Quadflieg, and Elisabeth Flickenschildt. (Quadflieg, by the way, shares my birthday.)
Here, then, is my listing of the dialogues in the Kerker scene most worth the reader's attention, and where the Master's word holds its greatest weight.
Entering the prison cell, Faust pronounces:
FAUST: "Der Menschheit ganzer Jammer faßt mich an." (I am gripped by the tragedy of the human condition.)
Claiming universal comprehension of some sort, Faust fails to be moved even a little by Gretchen's individual tragedy, enormous though it is.
Faust soon admonishes himself, noting his fear of seeing her again:
FAUST: "Du fürchtest, sie wiederzusehen!" (You're scared of seeing her again!)
There is a parallel within the scene. Gretchen ultimately declares that his mere presence horrifies her, marking the scene – and Faust Part I – for the unparalleled tragedy that it is. Whereas Faust is focusing on his hesitation to act, Gretchen pronounces the reality behind that hesitation.
Speaking to Gretchen, Faust has assumed his role of reassuring her:
FAUST. "Still! Still! Ich komme, dich zu befreien." (Quiet! Quiet! I've come to free you.)
The contrast here is that Gretchen had been expecting her jailers to arrive – to bind and take her away. Faust reassures her that the situation is exactly the opposite: Her lover has come to free her. But Gretchen's resistance to her imagined jailer is less severe than her resistance to Faust later in the scene (which we shall come to), with the words she utters in each case being almost identical. In effect, if we take Gretchen's situation as the grim reality, Faust is as far from the truth in his intentions and beliefs as he could possibly be. The tormentor is preferred over the saviour – and with good reason!
The absolute negative here is the confidence with which Faust sternly reassures Gretchen: The "Still! Still!" by Quadflieg is entirely convincing in its urgency.
Speaking to Faust as though he were the jailor, Gretchen says:
GRETCHEN. "Bist du ein Mensch, so fühle meine Not." (If you're human, feel my pain!)
"Bist du ein Mensch?"? Is he, or is he not, human? Is it an ordinary question to ask if one is human/humane, or is it not? This super-play between the ordinary and the unforeseen runs through the Kerker scene: Here, the ordinary translates to a question of humaneness; the super-question is one of whether the man in question is ordinary or not.
Later in the same dialogue, Gretchen's piteous yet poignant question appears:
"Wer hat dir Henker diese Macht / Über mich gegeben!" (Hangman, who has given you this power over me?!)
The question can plainly be divided into all its possibilities, if only Gretchen were to know the facts. Consider:
(a) As though Gretchen were asking an ordinary hangman. It is then a common-sense question of how so wretched a person as a hangman has power over a prisoner.
(b) As though Gretchen were asking the Faust of the past. The answer is, then, his charm and lust (in simple words); by this he misled her and is now, factually speaking, in a position to free her or to condemn her.
(c) As though Gretchen were asking the Faust of now. Here the answer is Mephistopheles.
If one were to tie the beginning to the end – we are reminded of "laßt dem Anfang mit dem Ende," as Goethe urged us – common sense and deep reality become one and the same: It is the Devil that gives Faust his power. For now, at least; the story is quite different in Faust Part II.
GRETCHEN. "Nah war der Freund, nun ist er weit" (My friend was near; now he is far away)
It is again the imaginary versus the real. In the imaginary (surreal?) world, Faust is far away; in the immediate world, he is here, which points to the fact that Gretchen is hallucinating. In the ultimate analysis, however, Faust is far (weit) because of his purpose, his orientation, his obligation.
GRETCHEN. "Faße mich nicht so gewaltsam an!" (Don't hold me so forcefully!)
This is one of the centrepieces of the scene. Elisabeth Flickenschildt's voice is perfect here with its urgency and indignance: To the jailor, Gretchen says "nicht so gewaltsam." To Faust in the end, this very line becomes "nicht so mörderisch," as though confirming to us that we are to compare Faust with the imaginary hangman. Only, the imaginary and literal hangman is to Gretchen less terrible than the real Faust – who is, at first thought, unfathomably – in the same role.
In the very next line, Gretchen protests to the hangman: "Was hab ich dir getan?" (What have I done to you?)
Towards the close, Gretchen says in a different context, in the context of closing her own confession: "… dir alles zulieb getan" (I have done everything out of love for you). The reader must take the lines together. Madness is because of the separation, where Gretchen imagines her tormentor to be a physical jailor while Faust is her lover, her saviour, her present reality.
FAUST: "Werd ich den Jammer überstehen!" (I will survive and overcome all that has happened!)
The declaration would have been noble; indeed, it is noble as of now. It is still noble a minute from now, when he declares that he has come "die Jammerknechtschaft aufzuschließen" (to completely remove your bondage). A few minutes show not only that he is incapable of this, but also that he is not even courageous enough. It is entirely Mephistopheles' strength being drawn upon.
A few lines later, Gretchen, lapsing into what seems her insanity, reveals her idea of reality to Faust:
"…Unter der Schwelle, siedet die Hölle!" (Hell boils underneath.)
Here, it is clear, her lack of clarity shows her the truth. Mephistopheles is indeed lurking outside the prison door. In Goethe's supreme scheme, nothing must contradict what is visible. The apparent, the real, the omen, the vision, the madness, the reality, the physical, the intangible, must all point to the same "Ur-Phänomen," the "pre-phenomenon": the basic reality.
"Er rief Gretchen! Er stand auf der Schwelle.
Mitten durchs Heulen und Klappen der Hölle,
Durch den grimmigen, teuflischen Hohn
Erkannt ich den süßen, den liebenden Ton."
(He said my name… he stands between hell and the howling sounds … in the midst of all this, I hear his sweet voice.)
Much can be said about the centrality of what Gretchen says here; I shall limit myself to pointing out that here, the dual-nature of Gretchen's speech throughout the Kerker scene – moving back and forth between reality (but which is ultimately not true for her) and imagination (which ultimately is the truth for her), between meaning (which is apparent but temporary) and madness (which is frightening but more real than what seems to make sense) – is at its starkest.
In physical terms, Faust's voice (which Gretchen is speaking about) is literally between the Devil (standing outside the prison door) and her; it literally emerges, as a saviour to her, from the howling of hell (which the prison and its atmosphere seems to be for her). Faust's voice comes out of the darkness to save her, but in actuality, it cannot; the "sweet sound" she refers to is ultimately (and, in fact, immanently) her undoing.
Immediately thereafter come Faust's urgent declaration:
"Ich bin's!" (It's me! OR, more dramatically, "It's me you're looking for!")
For now, these words, though simple, are false: Faust cannot save Gretchen. Only much later – in fact, as late as at the end of Part II – does Faust turn out to be the one Gretchen has been waiting for.
After Gretchen recognises the voice as Faust's, and goes off into a little realm of sentimentality, Faust's words – only one exhortation – are of interest because they suspiciously echo those of Mephistopheles at the end of the scene and of Part I:
"Komm mit! Komm mit!" (Come on! Come on! OR Come with me! Come with me!)
There might have been nothing to read into this were it not for the fact that some minutes later, Mephistopheles is in a position to say "Her zu mir!" (Come to me!) to Faust – in which Gretchen is left out.
GRETCHEN: "O weile Weil ich doch so gern, wo du weilest." (ROUGH TRANSLATION: Please be with me here; I like it when you're near.)
This, from Gretchen, serves to remind the reader that this one scene brings together all the pieces of the drama thus far; once reminded, the reader is full aware that each word is to be noted.
What Gretchen says is the exact opposite of what Faust's pact with Mephistopheles is about; in that sense, Gretchen and Faust may be seen as polar opposites – as verified by Faust's words immediately following: "Eile!" ("Rush!" OR "Move!") Taken in this sense, Gretchen fits into Faust's scheme of not lingering in the moment.
It is, however, presented in an absolutely contrasting frame of time and space: Here, Faust would actually do well to sit awhile; he would do well (in the ultimate sense) to linger in this space and not move at all, because outside, Mephistopheles awaits him.
Such dramatic contrast – a contrast not just between the emotions but between fact and reality, within not just one person but within two at the same time, both in the same physical space but in no less than different universes – mark the Kerker scene as the greatest micro-drama ever penned.
GRETCHEN: Warum wird mir an deinem Halse so bang?
Wenn sonst von deinen Worten, deinen Blicken
Ein ganzer Himmel mich überdrang…"
(NON-LITERAL, DRAMATIC TRANSLATION: "Why do I feel so uneasy as I hug you? There was a time when your words, even just your gaze, would open up the heavens for me…")
There is no conflict here; I mention this dialogue only because of the heart-rending emotion Elisabeth Flickenschildt infuses into it. Also, here is one of the few places in the Kerker scene where Gretchen is neither being insane nor hateful, nor sentimental to the point of incomprehension; she is being human.
FAUST: "Komm! Folge mir! …" (Come! Follow me!)
It is interesting that for much of the scene, Faust has been saying just this much: that Gretchen to follow him, to escape with him. In fact, much else that he says leads to the same point: "Follow me." This is, to the very root, exactly what Mephistopheles has been saying!
In other words, it might appear that Faust, in all that he says in the Kerker scene, is accomplishing nothing but echoing Mephistopheles.
GRETCHEN: "Und weißt du denn, mein Freund, wen du befreist?" (But do you know, my friend, whom you are trying to free?)
Throughout the scene, Gretchen alternates between reality and fantasy; here is one of the best examples (within the scene) of her ties to reality – deeper, it may be noted, than Faust's. She asks whether Faust is aware of the danger he faces if he were to help her in her current (imprisoned) state; this, despite her own benefit were she to be indeed freed. But on the face of it, as through the scene, Gretchen still seems insane when she asks this!
FAUST: "Komm! komm! schon weicht die tiefe Nacht." (Come! Come! The night is soon passing.)
The theme of the night (which belongs to Mephistopheles) versus the day (which belongs to the Lord, to the "guter Mensch" the Lord refers to in the Prologue) repeats itself through the scene, its strength being that it is always only a word. Never does Goethe resort to dramatic clichés such as, one might say, "The dark night gives way into the bright day," or anything of the sort; the drama is in the contrasts within the manner in which the three participants of the scene refer to night and day. "Schon weicht die tiefe Nacht" (the night will soon pass), "Der Morgen dämmert auf" (the dawn is breaking), and more: All refer to the same thing – Daybreak. But they differ in tone, in intent, and most of all, in the words themselves. Examples will follow.
FAUST: "Laß das Vergangne vergangen sein, …"
A minute later comes this quick dismissal from Faust: "Let the past be." This is perhaps one of the most ridiculous utterances in the entire drama; it is hypocritical, unreal, selfish, and insensitive while being seemingly useful; it is contextually distorting and self-contradictory while seemingly philosophical. This is Faust at his worst; rather, it is the old Faust – Faust the Professor – at his worst while in the real world.
GRETCHEN. "O Heinrich, könnt ich mit!" (O Heinrich, would that I could! OR O Heinrich, I wish I could!)
As in #14 above, there is no conflict here; the emotion Elisabeth Flickenschildt infuses into this little speech makes it for me, personally, the most profoundly sad words of the entire scene. ("If only I could!") Words are unnecessary where a voice speaks, but to play with words, Flickenschildt's voice conveys factuality, resignation and pathos at the same time, within the space of three words.
GRETCHEN: Es ist so elend, betteln zu müssen
Und noch dazu mit bösem Gewissen!
Es ist so elend, in der Fremde schweifen
Und sie werden mich doch ergreifen!
("It is so miserable to have to beg, and furthermore, to do so with a bad conscience! It is miserable to wander around in strange places, with the possibility of still being caught!")
What Gretchen describes here – her fate, if she were to be free in her current state of having had an illegitimate child – parallels that of Faust. Faust is, and has been for some time, the servant of the Devil; he does not beg in the literal sense, but figuratively, all his desires he must submit to him. And all the while, he wanders (as best exemplified in the Walpurgisnacht scene) "in der Fremde" – foreign, unknown, unfriendly places, while always in danger of being revealed to be powerless.
Gretchen's fate, if free, is real, physical; it is what she describes here. Faust's fate, if free (as he perceives himself – and himself alone – to be) is in the world that Mephistopheles has created. They run parallel.
FAUST: "Ich bleibe bei dir." (I will be by your side.)
This, as in #18 above, is falsity on the part of the most learned man alive; he promises to be "by her side," which he has never been able to be; which he is not even as he speaks (for he depends on her antithesis for his existence and power); and which he cannot be on account of his indebtedness to that antithesis and on account of his own reality.
GRETCHEN: "Sie winkt nicht, sie nickt nicht, der Kopf ist ihr schwer,
Sie schlief so lange, sie wacht nicht mehr.
Sie schlief, damit wir uns freuten.
Es waren glückliche Zeiten!"
(My mother's eyes and head are still; her head is a weight upon her. She slept so long that she didn't wake up. She slept so that we could enjoy ourselves. Those were wonderful times!)
At this point, towards the end of the drama, through words the reader is taken beyond the realm of words: What Gretchen says here is too complex to analyse, too sad for one to wish to analyse to the extreme. Suffice it to say that, while explaining to Faust what she has done to her own mother (poisoned her with a substance prescribed by the learned doctor himself, and which has resulted in her death), she lapses into the reality she shares with Faust: "Those were happy times."
Melodrama and guilt, on the one hand, blend here with a sentimental recollection that maintains the necessary bond with reality. It is so complex, the opposites of emotion and fact so utterly interwoven, that as the reader's eyes well up, the image of the master dramatist and poet rises ever stronger in the mind's eye.
FAUST: "Hilft hier kein Flehen, hilft kein Sagen, / So wag ich's, dich hinwegzutragen." (If my pleading and explanations are of no use, I think I'm going to take you away by force.)
GRETCHEN: "Laß mich! Nein, ich leide keine Gewalt! / Fasse mich nicht so mörderisch an!" (Let me be! I won't allow any force! Don't hold me in this murderous way!)
And this is the physical culmination point of the drama, where Gretchen speaks more strongly to her lover than she did to the prison guard she imagined.
To the prison guard she had said, "Fasse mich nicht so gewaltsam an!" (Don't hold me so forcefully!) That "gewaltsam" (forcefully) is here "mörderisch" (in a murderous way). Here is the final, the bitterest, the most damning pronouncement possible upon Faust's actions: He is worse to her than the prison guard from whom he has come to free her. (Gretchen's final pronouncement upon Faust's existence comes a few lines later.)
FAUST: "Der Tag graut! …" (The day is breaking!)
Faust, still insistent upon the escape, states that they must leave soon. "Der Tag graut" is a perfectly normal way of saying that the day is breaking, but the choice of word – "graut" ("turns from dark to grey") versus "dämmert" (dawns), for example, could be an indication of the state of affairs within Faust's internal world. Goethe might have intended that for Faust, the dawn seems grey instead of bright; "grau" means "grey."
Contrast with Mephistopheles' complaint, soon to come: "Der Morgen dämmert auf." (The day is dawning.)
GRETCHEN: "…der letzte Tag dringt herein…" (DRAMATIC TRANSLATION: The last day comes upon us.)
She echoes what Faust says as fact; for her, in her reality that seems a fantasy, it is the last day. (It might not be, were she to follow Faust.) This is almost the tenth mention of the words "day" and "night," in the context of the transition. The transition reflects the transition in Faust; it also reflects the transition, not yet complete, of Part I of the Tragedy to Part II.
GRETCHEN: "Stumm liegt die Welt wie das Grab!" (Silent lies the world, as silent as the grave! OR Still lies the world, grave-like.)
This ends Gretchen's delineation of her world. Her speech is over; she speaks again only because Mephistopheles emerges from outside the prison door.
FAUST: "O wär ich nie geboren!" (Would that I had never been born! OR I wish I had never been born!)
Faust has crumbled; it is the immediate reaction to Gretchen's statement about the world now being akin to the grave. By itself, it is only a reaction; it is of the utmost significance – in fact, perhaps the most significant statement in the entire scene from the point of view of time. At this precise moment, when Faust's will has weakened, Mephistopheles emerges.
For all the scene, Faust has urged Gretchen to come with him; at the moment that Faust loses heart – at the moment he moves back into his nihilism – the Devil appears with unimpeded sovereignty, with an impudence that defies description.
MEPHISTOPHELES: "Auf! oder ihr seid verloren.
Unnützes Zagen! Zaudern und Plaudern!
Mein Pferde schaudern,
Der Morgen dämmert auf."
(NON-LITERAL TRANSLATION: Come on out, otherwise you're lost! Worries, vacillation, small talk! My horses are shivering… it's almost dawn!)
His words are deliberately crude, ruthlessly uncaring. They are true to fact, but the point is that he could have come into the prison room earlier; his entry at this precise point indicates much more than urgency.
His intent is to ridicule, to subdue Gretchen, to mock and undermine Faust's spirit.
GRETCHEN: "Was steigt aus dem Boden herauf?" (What is that rising up from the ground?)
The word here, "Was" (what) as opposed to "Wer" (who) says more than the sentence itself. For Gretchen, in this moment, Mephistopheles seems to be an apparition, not Faust's corporeal companion. She knows him well, but she now says "what" instead of "who." Within that difference lies the entire matter: Gretchen knows, in her confused way, everything that is going on.
The apparition fills her with a hatred that defies rational thought. In the lines that follow, she identifies Mephistopheles as Faust's companion, the one she has distrusted all along; perhaps even the one at the root of her fate, insofar as she is bound to Faust.
FAUST: "Du sollst leben!" (You shall live!)
By this time, the reader has learnt to accept that Faust's voice is scarcely his own; this is Mephistopheles speaking. What might Faust, on his own, possibly mean by this? If he were trying to save her, it is in vain, for she has recognised the evil behind the scene; if he were trying to reassure her, it is meaningless, for she has already declared (and Faust has accepted) that she shall not move away from the prison with him.
Mephistopheles is, for the first time, completely in control – except that Gretchen can (as she does) give herself up to the Lord.
GRETCHEN: "Gericht Gottes! dir hab ich mich übergeben!" (Lord, I give myself up for you to judge me!)
MEPHISTOPHELES (to Faust): "Komm! komm! Ich lasse dich mit ihr im Stich." (Come! Come! Otherwise I'll leave you with her in this hole.)
GRETCHEN: "Dein bin ich, Vater! Rette mich!
Ihr Engel! Ihr heiligen Scharen,
Lagert euch umher, mich zu bewahren!
Heinrich! Mir graut's vor dir."
(I am yours, Father! Save me! You angels, you heavenly hosts, stay to protect me! Heinrich, you horrify me.)
To summarise up to this point: Gretchen gives up all hope, declaring the world a grave; Faust loses heart, wishing that he "had never been born"; at that moment, the spirit of evil rises up in full power, taking over the scene. Gretchen, initially horrified at the apparition, gives herself up to the Lord, at the same time ending the drama in the worst possible way – or, shall we say, in the most tragic of ways: To declare that she loathes and dreads her lover, while he stands in front of her still declaring himself her saviour. The path for Mephistopheles is clear.
MEPHISTOPHELES: "Sie ist gerichtet!" (She has been judged!)
VOICE FROM ABOVE: "Ist gerettet!" (She is saved!)
Mephistopheles seeks victory. Here it is as though the Lord (from the Prologue) has intervened for the first time, for we must assume that the voice is from the heavenly hosts: He says that Gretchen is saved, and therefore, that Mephistopheles has lost this battle.
MEPHISTOPHELES (to Faust): "Her zu mir!" (Come here to me! OR Hither to me! OR Here, here! To me, this way!)
Gründgens' voice here powerfully captures the essence of what is being said. It is not a mere directive, which one might say to a person in the vicinity; it is about absolute direction. In this direction, Faust moves away from Gretchen and her fate, and towards nothing in particular – only to Mephistopheles himself.
In terms of the physical drama, it is in the opposite direction, with Gretchen inside, Faust somewhere in the middle, and Mephistopheles waiting outside with his horse carriage.
Figuratively, since Gretchen has given herself up to the Lord, going "to him" would mean, for Faust, going away from the Lord. The drama is complete.
Faust is helpless; he must follow the command.
As Gretchen might see it, Faust is lost. As Mephistopheles might see it, his power has prevailed. As the Lord might see it, we might say here what He said in the Prologue: "Ein guter Mensch, in seinem dunklen Drange, ist stets immer den rechten Weges wohl bewußt." (A worthy man, in his dark struggle, is ever aware of the right path.)
VOICE FROM WITHIN, FAILING: "Heinrich! Heinrich!"
Gretchen, in spirit, will meet Faust again – also in spirit – only at the end of Part II.


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Note 13 by Blair and Associates for the 2011 Town of Paonia audit was a doozy. "In 2011, employee fraud was detected during the audit process.
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North Fork
Delta County Economic Development (DCED) has visited the town councils for Hotchkiss, Paonia and Crawford. It was looking for funding in the form of membership dues.
Page 157 of 290


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A goal of the American Studies program is to have students develop a course of study that integrates academic work across a range of disciplines.
• A goal of the American Studies major is to have students synthesize and critically evaluate knowledge from diverse fields.
- Students work closely with faculty mentors to develop their individualize curriculum, develop an integrated course of study, and produce original thesis projects.
• A goal of the American Studies program is to create a community of learning among faculty and students that is sustained trough classroom instruction, internship and study abroad experiences, program field trips, activities, and lectures,
- The American Studies community of faculty and students engages in sustained interaction and conversation.
- Faculty and students regularly engage in active learning experiences both within and outside the classroom.
• American Studies aims to provide students with general knowledge of the field and to develop an area of substantive concentration.
- Students have the flexibility to develop concentrations in particular areas of American Studies that reflect their own interests and goals.
- Students use digital portfolios to assemble and integrate their coursework and related academic experiences as they progress through the major and to provide a foundation for the development of their senior thesis project.
- Every American Studies major is required to complete a senior thesis that reflects their area of primary interest, and which is the culmination of their academic program.
American Studies seeks to develop and use innovative approaches to teaching and learning.
• A goal of the American Studies program is to develop and implement innovative instructional techniques both in the classroom and through related activities and practices.
- Students receive instruction in the use of innovative approaches for creating and sharing knowledge, such as digital portfolios, digital museums, digital stories, student-produced documentary videos, blogs, live performance, scripts, novels, poetry, and music, which are integrated into the curriculum.
- Classroom learning is enhanced by fall and spring semester field trips that correspond to the American Civilization curriculum.
- Students have the opportunity to produce, attend, and generally be part of lectures and events supported by the program that supplement and enhance their curriculum, such as performances, art and photo exhibits, film screenings, and conferences.
• American Studies seeks to have students incorporate innovative approaches to sharing knowledge into their coursework as well as the capstone thesis project where appropriate.
- Students should leave American Studies with at least a basic ability to use digital tools for displaying and sharing knowledge.


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Reading through the rules PDF, one of the examples makes mention to a Warpwolf Warrior model. Considering that we now have Feral Warpwolves, I'd figure we'll see a more trained (weapon-using, or what?) warpwolf in the future.
Reading through the rules PDF, one of the examples makes mention to a Warpwolf Warrior model. Considering that we now have Feral Warpwolves, I'd figure we'll see a more trained (weapon-using, or what?) warpwolf in the future.
Yay, more proxies from Rackham!
We know from the example that it's got an open fist, and probably just one open fist since they don't use it for a two-handed throw example. This, along with the 'warrior' name, implies a weapon in the other hand.
god would that be awesome. I was saying today we need a warpwolf with a nomad sword.
An armored Warpwolf Warrior with a Vougle(reach)
Or it could just be a misprint of "Pureblood Warpwolf", which is both STR 10 and can make throws.
I would love more Warpwolves though.
What about a solo that works like a Incubi? It starts off as a Warpwolf in human form then, when it takes damage, it transforms into a large base solo. It'd fit in the fluff and could be pretty cool, I think.
Nomads sword is POW 6. wolfies STR is 11.
POW 17 with reach? warping str for POW 19? Stoneskin POW 21? Primal POW 23!!!!
I do think that we will get a 3rd worpwolf and here is my reasoning. If you look warmachine jacks like the ironclad there are 3 jacks that go with that chassis and they will be sold in a box kit like we have seen with Retribution heavy jacks. So I think that we will see a 3rd worpwolf so that they can do that same thing with hordes.
Must have:
While that does make sense, consider the currently drastically different Warpwolf and Pureblood models. They will both need to be reworked from the ground up.
Constructs lend themselves to modularity and poseablilty due to the natural joints between components, Organics don't.
That being said, plastic beasts would be alright with me as long as they look good.
In MkI I agreed we needed more warp wolves, if only to let us have a point to a WW alpha.
Now it seems the alpha is less in need of buddies but still, at least one more would be welcome.
I think we WILL get a third Warpy.
plastic Boxset.
Seriously. They have brought the Pureblood inline with the Feral. I think its how were gonna get a box set.
Note. This is just conjecture. I have no proof, or inside info. But the moment i saw three different names for Warpies, that's what I thought.
On a related note, I was reading the NQ #27 article on Satyrs and as I read I was hoping for hints on a new Satyr warbeast. The article mentions that Druids tried to teach Satyrs to use weapons and I react: "YAY! I would love that!" then followed by:
"Satyrs would just drop the weapons so they can just go and beat face." or something like that.
Awww, man! Stupid goats! :>
and maybe his animus would be like bounding leap so that way kromac could be freaking awesome.
he would have a target for Ravager and he would have a better threat range in beast form
A leap-granting animus would easily be the best animus in the game. If Kaya had access to that, even if it cost 4 fury, she would be a stupidly-horrifying assassin, 'cause she'd regularly get the move 6", leap 5", swing-until-knockdown, Spirit Gate in a warpwolf, shake hands with opponent win, and that's assuming it would be RNG=Self.
I want that character beast. Finally, we'd have a slam-mage, which is Ganondorf's prestige class.
Is there a possibility that the warrior warp wolf is more like a werewolf with a weapon....i.e. a new light warbeast?
Part Tharn and part Wolf...however that would work....guess there really is no lore to back that up though.
New to circle and the Feral picture is very nice. I was just wondering my Feral has two claws at pow 15 and a bite at pow 14 plus an open fist for power attacks. But with the damage he is doing with the claws and bite why make a power attack (in most circumstances). If the wolf is given a vogue, axe or whatever. What would the wolf be losing. Will he get only one attack with reach bigger pow or something else. I know iI would be getting an awesome model.
Cordially yours,
The advantage to a weapon would be purchasing attacks at a higher P&S than 15. There is far too little to really speculate on, and all we can assume is a slightly more trained combat style.
I'm expecting something akin to the Nephilum Protector. Moderate DEf, High-ish ARM, POW 6-7 weapon, Reach, maybe Thresher.
Combined with a more guardian style Controlled Warping.
A warpwolf warrior...
Would make a awesome unit.
Just think. a 6/10 pt unit. Leader & 2 grunts/Leader & 4 Grunts
Medium base 8 wound models
2 warping effects - STR - SPD, with bonuses from other Warpwolf beasts 3" from the unit (such as FW gives Warped ARM and PW gives Ghostly).
Each with two claw attacks, @ P+S 10 with warp STR P+S 12
and a bite attack P+S 8 with warped STR P+S 10
Stats something close to:
Just an Idea would be a cool unit.
I'd like a medium-based warpwolf unit also. They would be smaller than a Feral Warpwolf, so what would they be, fluff-wise? WoO would drink the potion? I guess I will have to go back and do some research in Monsternomicon and old NQs.
6 pts for unit of 3 with 6 SPD, 2 P+S 10 and a P+S 8 would be priced about right. If they get additional warping, I think they would be a steal. Without Reach or a movement bonus they would only be good against multiwound infantry, but all factions seem to be getting more multiwoulds, except Cygnar I guess.
Make a great pKaya Tier list with them, that's for sure.
Last edited by DudeOfOrboros; 12-11-2009 at 09:31 AM.
Eh. I'm sure the model would look good but a Warpwolf with a weapon doesn't exactly strike me as something we need. What would it bring to the table, more damage? We already can do more damage with a Feral Warpwolf than any other model in the game based on accuracy combined with potential damage.
Frankly, I just assumed "Warpwolf Warrior" was a placeholder name while they were coming up with Feral Warpwolf, and they didn't change it.
OK.. What I want is a Warpwolf Cavalry model riding a Satyr and using Khador's blasting lances.... POW 21!!!!!
Bull Rush at POW 15.
SPD 6 & Leap.
But seriously. I'd like to see a new Warpwolf alternative.
All joking aside, if we were to have a "Warrior Warpwolf" what I'd like to see is a contingency model, not unlike the Incubi of the Legion. I think it would be rather utility (and fluff) to have a model that starts off the table, and is brought in at a later time, switching out an appropriate living Trooper model for the Warrior Warpwolf (i.e. it drinks its tonic to chang at the right time). This Warpwolf on the fly would not be a full sized Feral (you give that up for the convenience of surprise) but rather a Medium, wielding whatever weapon the trooper it replaced carried.
This would mean it would have to be a plastic model that came with a variety of weapon options. Wolves of Orboros weapons, Reeves weapons, and so on. It is probably too cerebral and complex an option, but it seems to me an interesting kind of unit.
I hope the Warrior looks like this:
or like this:
Last edited by DudeOfOrboros; 12-14-2009 at 07:35 AM.


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OAKLAND -- A former secretary, office manager and bookkeeper for two East Bay companies is facing federal charges that she embezzled from her employers and lied on her taxes.
According to prosecutors, Kristie Gale Meyer worked for Ansil Realty & Investment Co. Inc in Lafayette and its partner firm, Walnut Creek's KLP Properties Inc.
While she was there, she "stole money by several means, including paying her credit card bills with checks drawn on the companies' bank accounts, using those funds for her personal benefit, and by taking cash advances and making payments to online gambling websites," according to a new release from U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag.
Meyer tried to hide her crimes, Haag said, by making false accounting entries in the companies' accounting systems and by destroying copies of the fraudulent checks.
Meyer also filed false tax returns from 2006 to 2008, substantially underreporting her income, Haag said.
Haag did not say how much money Meyer allegedly stole or lied about, nor did she release Meyer's age and city of residence.
A grand jury indicted Meyer on Thursday. It was not immediately clear Friday whether she had hired an attorney.
Her former employers declined to comment on the case.
Meyer is due in court on Aug. 20.
Contact Sean Maher at 925-943-8013. Follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/OneSeanMaher.


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Molson Coors Drunk Dials Emerging Markets in $3.5B Beer Deal (Update 1)
Updated to reflect Goldman Sachs, Fitch comments and analyst estimates
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Molson Coors'(TAP) $3.5 billion push into heavy-drinking emerging economies may come up light on beer growth.
To combat declining sales in key U.S. and Canadian beer markets and falling profits, the maker of Coors Light and Molson announced a foray into recovering eastern European markets with the acquisition of Czech Republic-based StarBev, the brewer of Staropramen beer.
But the U.S.-Canadian beer conglomerate may be targeting the wrong emerging economy.
A closer look at Molson Coors' acquisition and its strategy of counting eastern Europe as a growth market casts doubt on whether the struggling beer company put its cash and balance sheet to work in the most effective way for shareholders.
"We are not as constructive as management is on the deal as we believe TAP is a more attractive story when deploying capital back to shareholders and focusing on an improving U.S. market," JPMorgan analyst John Faucher wrote in a note Tuesday.
Going into this year, Molson Coors shares were recovering from a big 2011 slide as the company launched its first post-crisis share buyback program in September and added to it at the end of the year. The Denver-based company also raised its quarterly dividend from 28 cents to 32 cents in June. Tuesday's deal could halt Molson Coors' share momentum, as the company is bottling up the buyback program in favor of funding the acquisition.


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Cellar/Tasting Notes "Another impressive Oloroso from Gonzalez Byass. This is a sweet, dark, brooding Sherry with prune and other sweet fruit aromas. The palate is rich but has good flow, while dark flavors of dulce de leche and burnt brown sugar are wonderful. Sweet but balanced by mild coffee-like bitterness on the..
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Baltimore prosecutors lighten up on marijuana possession
Caught with a couple of joints he didn't get the chance to light up, Eric Staton was ordered to appear before a Baltimore judge. Two weeks later, in a basement courtroom on North Avenue, prosecutors said they would drop the possession charge if Staton...Tags: Defendants, Health Treatments, Medical Marijuana Therapy, Prosecution, Justice System
UM student charged in child porn sting
A University of Maryland, College Park freshman was arrested this week on charges of distributing child pornography and crossing state lines to engage in illicit sexual conduct with a minor, according to a criminal complaint. The student, Akshay...Tags: Sex Crimes, Craigslist, Inc., University of Maryland, College Park, Pornography, Washington, DC
Former Hebron Savings Bank employee sentenced for embezzlement
A former vice president of Hebron Savings Bank in Wicomico County was sentenced to 18 months in prison for embezzlement and ordered to pay $456,665 in restitution, federal prosecutors said Thursday. Wanda Henderson, 56, of Westover had used her...Tags: Embezzlement, Punishment, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Prosecution, Justice System
House extends controversial DNA collection law
The Baltimore SunAs the U.S. Supreme Court weighs whether to strike down Maryland's controversial DNA collection law, the House of Delegates on Thursday voted to extend it. The 2009 law allows police to collect DNA samples from people arrested for certain violent...Tags: Chemical Industry, Justice System, Judges, Lawyers, Credit and Debt
Police in Md. holding DNA on people not convicted of crimes
Even as the U.S Supreme Court reviews Maryland's law on police collection of DNA samples, many law enforcement agencies in the state are collecting and holding genetic material from murder victims and people never convicted of crimes. The practices...Tags: Medical Research, Identification Technology, Chemical Industry, Crime Victims, Howard County
Supreme Court questions sides in challenge of Md. DNA law
Maryland's practice of collecting genetic information from people arrested — but not convicted — on serious charges took the national stage Tuesday, as the U.S. Supreme Court weighed in on what Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. called "perhaps the...Tags: Regional Authority, FBI, Chemical Industry, Police Arrests, Government
U.S. Supreme Court to hear arguments over Md. DNA case
In a Maryland case that's garnered the attention of the other 49 states, the federal Department of Justice and the national science community, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments Tuesday over whether to restrict police in collecting DNA to solve...Tags: Defendants, U.S. Congress, Civil Rights, Prosecution, Law Enforcement
Bill would give Washington Co. increasing share of state Disparity Grant
firstname.lastname@example.com Washington County lawmaker has introduced a bill in the House that seeks to provide the county a gradually increasing proportion of a wealth-based grant with every passing year. That wealth-based grant is known as the Disparity Grant, and Washington...Tags: Personal Income, Taxation
Washington County making effort for Disparity Grant money
firstname.lastname@example.com's disparity grant program was created more than two decades ago to provide state aid to less wealthy areas of the state. The policy was aimed at giving counties that have lower revenues from local income tax an opportunity to get money...Tags: The Herald-Mail, Personal Income, State Income Tax, Kent County, Taxation
Delegate gets funny, risks payback
In politics it's often said that what goes around comes around. Del. Kathy Szeliga better hope that isn't always true. The Harford County lawmaker is known for her caustic and sometimes witty emails to constituents and reporters. But her most recent...Tags: Sandwiches, Republican Party, Satellite and Cable Service, Justice System, Christopher B. Shank
Eileen H. 'Pat' van Breemen, 88, worked to help children with learning disabilities
Eileen H. "Pat" van Breemen, an advocate for children suffering from learning disabilities and a Wicomico County political activist, died Tuesday, from multiple organ failures, at her Salisbury home. She had recently celebrated her 88th birthday. The...Tags: Queen Anne (Prince George's, Maryland), Teachers, Elmhurst, Gaithersburg (Montgomery, Maryland), Culture
State budget has no tax increases, limited spending, leaders say
Gov. Martin O'Malley unveiled Wednesday a budget that is "on the verge" of closing a budget gap that once stood at $2 billion. The governor emphasized the more than 40,000 jobs he expected his $37 billion operating and $3.7 billion capital budget to...Tags: U.S. Congress, Budgets and Budgeting, Regional Authority, Thomas V. Mike Miller, Schools
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Venue: Concert Hall View Seat Map Presented by: The Australian Orchestra ATF Australian World Orchestra Foundation
Experience the Brilliance of Australia's Finest
The Australian World Orchestra (AWO) is one of the most exciting orchestral initiatives in Australia's cultural history, bringing together many of Australia's finest and successful classical musicians from around the world to form one of the country's most electrifying orchestras.
The AWO's vision is simple: to provide a totally unique, electrifyingly lush and impassioned sound showcasing Australia's musical Jewels. Over 110 musicians, representing over 47 orchestras including the Berlin, Vienna and Hong Kong Philharmonics, Chicago, London, Sydney and Melbourne Symphony Orchestras and the Scottish and Vienna Chamber Orchestras, will join together over three nights to form what is sure to be of the country's most talked about classical musical events.
The 2013 AWO season will be in the form of three exciting concerts, for one night only in the Concert Hall of the Sydney Opera House on Thursday October 3rd and two concerts in the Hamer Hall of the Melbourne Arts Centre on Wednesday October 2nd and Friday October 4th.
All three concerts of this remarkable orchestra will be conducted by internationally acclaimed Maestro Zubin Mehta and will include Stravinsky's 'The Rite of Spring' and Mahler's '1st Symphony ("Titan")'. Maestro Mehta has conducted the cream of the world's celebrated orchestras including the Berlin and Vienna Philharmonics as well as conducting the historic Three Tenors in their inaugural performance in Rome. In 1981, Zubin Mehta was appointed Music Director of the Israel Philharmonic for life in recognition of his dedication to the Orchestra.
2013 is the 100th anniversary of the first performance of Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring". When it was first performed in Paris it caused a riot as it's rhythms and tonality were considered to be far too progressive. Today however, the work is one of the boldest, most virtuosic and exciting works ever written for orchestras. With it's relentless power and rhythmic energy, it constantly brings the house down.
Mahler's 1st Symphony is perhaps his most popular and with good reason. It has everything anyone could wish for in a large symphony-passion, extreme emotion, fury, tragedy, excitement, pathos, the famous "Frere Jaques" slow movement and one of the grandest endings to any work ever written.
The AWO concerts will be an event not to be missed – described by Australia's Film and Music luminary Baz Luhrmann as "one of the most exhilarating projects in our recent history of classical music!"
Winner: Best Orchestral Concert – ABC Limelight 2011 Awards
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Running Time: 2 hours with 20 minute interval
"The performance achieved considerable power and brilliance…The virtuosity of soloist William Barton in fusing so successfully with the orchestra was dazzling…The overall standard of playing was… virtuosic" James McCarthy, ABC Limelight Magazine 2011


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4dr Sdn Man FWD
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The 2011 Suzuki SX4 is a compact car that is available in Sportback, Sedan, and Crossover trims. All models are powered by a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder engine that produces 150 hp and 140 lb-ft of torque. Transmission choices are between a 6-speed manual or CVT automatic. Fuel mileage ranges from an EPA estimated 22 mpg city and 32 mpg highway. FWD is the standard drivetrain for all trims with the exception of the SX4 Crossover that boasts AWD. Options include touchscreen navigation with traffic information, hands-free communication, steering wheel-mounted audio controls, heated front seats and fog lamps. Safety is comprised of eight standard airbags, anti-lock braking, electronic brake distribution, brake assist, and tire pressure monitoring. The SX4 is backed by a 3-year/36,000-mile warranty.
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My Points | |
My Games |
I know new stuff for Tannhauser will halt, and I wish it would not be so, but oh well..
Anyway, I would like to see a revised-revised rulebook, or at least a leaflet with all characters and equipments, skills etca… in the same place.
I find it is a little clumsy to have the revised rulebook and the small individual rulebooks of the other characters, in different places…
Maybe a different book for reference? They could even work on some campaign book?
Page 1 of 1 (1 messages) | 1 |
That's what you got the Equipment Cards for, I think.
Imho, there's no need for a extra rulebook including every character, because nearly everything you need takes place on the equipment cards.
To the point of a campaign book, I'm working on it…
Page 1 of 1 (1 messages) | 1 |


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Architektenehepaar. Der Architekt Hans Heinz Lüttgen und seine Frau
Der Maler Heinrich Hoerle portraitiert den Boxer Hein Domgörgen
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This photograph is the final plate in "Antlitz der Zeit" ("Face of the Time"), Sander's typological study of German citizens. A poignant image of disempowerment, the picture reveals Sander's prescient understanding of the social and economic forces at work in the Weimar Republic. Taking Sander's sympathetic portrayal of Germans of all occupations and ethnicities as a serious threat, the Fascists destroyed the printing blocks and most copies of this book in 1934. This print of the whole negative, showing both the "last" man and his desolate corner, is the only one known to survive.
Inscription: Signed on mat, recto, bottom right, below image: "Aug. Sander // Koln 1928"; inscribed in pencil on mount, verso, top left: "1.80.650"; inscribed in pencil on mat, verso, bottom left: "RMG#984.8"
Gerd Sander, New York; [Robert Miller Gallery, New York (1983)]; [Simon Lowinsky & Nancy Medwell]; Private Collection; [Simon Lowinsky Gallery, New York]
No other vintage print from this negative is known. Variant images of the same subject are held by MOMA and the Getty Museum.


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The Eagle Compact Computer Desk provides everything you need in a workstation in a convenient corner configuration. Form and function come together
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Not bad for the price
By JB
from Seattle
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Comments about Studio RTA Eagle Compact Corner Wood Computer Desk in Pewter and Teak:
Not a bad desk for the money. It is a little shakey
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from Endicott NY
About Me Midrange Shopper
Very nice desk, was looking for a corner desk that had upward storage--this was the perfect solution for us, easy to assemble and the satellite speakers and subwoofer fit beautifully in this unit. Plenty of room for computer and top storage shelf is also very handy.LOVE IT!
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Poll: Should Lawmaker be Barred from Speaking after 'Vagina' Remark?
Rep. Lisa Brown of West Bloomfield referenced her Jewish faith and anatomy while arguing against legislation restricting abortion.
A day after state House Rep. Lisa Brown used the word "vagina" while arguing against new abortion legislation, she was prohibited from speaking on the floor about an education bill.
While Brown (D-West Bloomfield), a Jewish mother of three, said she was not given a reason why Majority Floor Leader Jim Stamas (R-Midland) barred her from speaking on the education matter Thursday, she assumed it had to do with her earlier remarks that claimed House Bill 5711 forces contradictory religious beliefs upon her and others.
"Regardless of their reasoning, this is a violation of my First Amendment rights and directly impedes my ability to serve the people who elected me into office," Brown said in a release.
What got Brown in hot water? Here's what she said:
"Wherever there is a question of the life of the mother or that of the unborn child, Jewish law rules in favor of preserving the life of the mother," Brown said Wednesday. "I have not asked you to adopt and adhere to my religious beliefs. Why are you asking me to adopt yours?"
"Finally, Mr. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but 'no' means 'no.'"
Majority Floor Leader Jim Stamas (R-Midland) determined Brown's comments violated the decorum of the House, said Ari Adler, spokesman for the Republican majority, The Detroit News reported.
What do you think?
Was Brown's use of the word "vagina" offensive? Did it warrant her being prohibited to speak Thursday? Vote in our poll below and leave your comments, too.
Alan Stamm
8:51 am on Friday, June 15, 2012
Rep. Lisa Brown v. Republican men is getting wide national attention, with coverage and commentaries on ABC, NPR, The Atlantic, Rachel Maddow's blog, Politico, Jezebel, New York Mag and The Daily Dish.
Stay tuned for Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert and SNL?
Alan Stamm
10:48 am on Friday, June 15, 2012
"We've heard from people from California to Chicago, all across the country, cheering me on and thanking me for being a voice for women."
-- Rep. Lisa Brown | The Rachel Maddow Show | June 14, 2012
Video at http://bit.ly/MbkddI
Herb Helzer
12:27 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Lisa Brown, Rashida Tlaib and Gretchen Whitmer are true progressive leaders, setting examples that more Democrats at all levels should follow. The good news is that all three (and others such as Rebekah Warren and Jocelyn Benson) are at the relative BEGINNING of their careers.
We will hear more from these strong women long after the Republican men who tried to shame, mock and silence them are reduced to political footnotes.
11:10 am on Friday, June 15, 2012
This is stupid - her "vagina comment" was not directly related to the issue, but a "joke" - "No, means no" is reference to a joke and rape - that has nothing to do with the issue and is graphic and not appropriate in a public comment.
3:29 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
Actually, it's not stupid. It's not a joke. Your rape culture is graphic and an issue; it is inappropriate in society.
Marla Swartz
8:37 am on Monday, June 18, 2012
No means no, is not a joke Mack. just saying it is, is a problem right there. As a woman I'm affended that a man would believe "NO MEANS NO" is a joke or a refernce to one. No means no means no matter how hot and heavy things might have gotten, you do NOT have permission to have sex with someone. We definately need some laws about penis's. That's for sure. Vagina is the correct name for a woman's body part, what else would you expect someone to call it? A slang word? Vagina has everything to do with that topic Lisa was speaking about.
Marla Swartz
8:42 am on Monday, June 18, 2012
No means no, is not a joke Mack. just saying it is, is a problem right there. As a woman I'm affended that a man would believe "NO MEANS NO" is a joke or a refernce to one. No means no means no matter how hot and heavy things might have gotten, you do NOT have permission to have sex with someone. We definately need some laws about penis's. That's for sure. Vagina is the correct name for a woman's body part, what else would you expect someone to call it? A slang word? Vagina has everything to do with that topic Lisa was speaking about. Every woman reading your comment no matter what party she belongs to should be offended by your comment and I'm sure any with any self worth are.
Neal Charness
12:46 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
The Republican leadership is bereft of citizenship. They should read Animal Farm.
Herb Helzer
12:28 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
I'm pretty sure they did...and reached the conclusion that the pigs only failed because they didn't go far enough.
1:04 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
Republican men hate it when a woman says no. The Bible never gave them that right.
David Weaver
11:51 am on Tuesday, June 19, 2012
You are painting all Republican men with a broad brush Glenn. That's like saying all women who dress provocatively are asking for trouble. Both are wrong.
Dale Murrish
1:08 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
I agree with Mack on this one. Inappropriate comment and unrelated to the issue at hand; much ado about nothing. Will be blown out of proportion by the left-leaning media and it's not even newsworthy otherwise.
Very, very few pro-life people would disagree with the Jewish law she quoted. A woman could voluntarily give up her life to save the baby, but should not be forced to. How many abortions are done to save the life of the mother? Very few. There is no moral dilemma in that case. Most are done for convenience.
Right to Life of Michigan endorses candidates holding that view (exception to save the life of the mother) which she has used to bolster her pro-choice position. She has taken a pro-life argument and twisted it to serve her pro-choice view.
3:31 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
I wonder if she learned that technique from the "pro-life" population?
11:46 am on Sunday, June 17, 2012
Maybe we should be asking why Right to Life is WRITING legislation for Michigan? How is it appropriate for any outside organization to be drafting our legislation -- particularly one with a faith-based bias? Last time I checked, the United States of America was not a theocracy. Right to Life believes that terminating pregnancy is not an option even in cases of incest and rape. Let's look at the facts here -- almost 90% of terminations are carried out within the first trimester. Less than 3% are carried out in the third trimester, and these are ONLY in cases where the fetus has very severe health issues, or when the life of the mother is seriously threatened. There is no question that this Bill is attempting to make it more difficult for women to make choices about their reproductive health. 1950s, here we come.
ann galen
3:36 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
There is nothing wrong with the word vagina, I learned it in anatomy class. However, the comment sounded stupid, and she made the comment to get attention, not because the comment made any sense - which it didnt.
As far as "a woman voluntarily giving up her own life in order to save the life of her own child", every mother I know would do so............without hesitation.
We must travel in very different circles.
Dale Murrish
1:12 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
What is the content of House Bill 5711? That would be more interesting to discuss than Lisa Brown's comment.
Cathy Fucinari
4:59 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
This response is for Ann Galen: You could say we travel in different circles. You don't even live in Michigan. You live in Florida.
Beth Reeber Valone
3:21 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
You can catch up on House Bill 5711 here http://1.usa.gov/OSGZJj
Dale Murrish
7:54 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
Thanks, Beth. You can also find a summary of the bill, which passed 70-39, at
Herb Helzer
12:40 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Ah, yes, the fig leaf of bipartisanship. That is the true failure of the six Democrats who voted with all but one Republican for HB 5711.
They may have thought that voting "Yes" made no difference in the bill's passage -- 64-45 or 70-39 -- but that doing so might prevent inflaming emotions back in their districts for the upcoming election.
Uunfortunately, their shortsightedness gives the increasingly arrogant Republicans the ability to claim "bipartisan" support for a deeply offensive, poorly-written bill that is a blatant attempt to outlaw what remains a legal medical procedure with nitpicking, regulations and inserting bureaucracy between doctors and patients.
And it won't win any of them a single additional vote in their districts -- Republicans will never accept them no matter how they voted this one time, and Democrats will now be leery of helping them.
Donna Calandra
4:30 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
Her comment may be unapropiate but she should not be bared from speaking. Are we losing are fteedoms to a dictator government?
Herb Helzer
12:46 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Depends on whether your community or school district can avoid imposition of an EM Czar -- which of course depends on whether the Supreme Court will allow the voters to settle the matter, or cast yet another hyper-partisan 4-3 vote to shred precedent, disenfranchise a quarter-million voters (who signed the Repeal PA 4 petitions), and further diminish the Court's legitimacy as objective arbiters of the laws and Constitution of the State of Michigan.
Jerry M. Parr
4:53 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
Wether it is appropriate or inappropriate is not the real issue it is much more about the dictatorship of the leaders of our government legislative bodies.We see the same actions in Congress when the party with the power to control the body uses it to control and delete the other parties voice and opposition.
Mel Janney
10:14 pm on Friday, June 15, 2012
Mel Janney (Independent)
10:11 pm, Friday June 15, 2012
I'm more than a little fed up with the self-righteous males of our population, whom can neither conceive nor feed the results of conception, dictating to women what to do with their bodies (abort or breast-feed outside their homes) - & yes, I have children & grand-children; male & female, so I can speak with some authenticity.
8:05 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
No matter what she said, as long as it was not vulgar or demeaning, she should be allowed to speak for her mind. The only ones who should be allowed to quiet her voice is her constituency at election time, not the opposing party because they don't like what she said. This also goes for anyone who represents us.
8:19 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
The language is getting ugly because of the continued frustration. If we want to bring the abortion issue to a debate again, then confront it head on. It is my personal belief that many of the women who loudly claim to be pro-life, in the privacy of a voting booth would never actually place that vote to eliminate their right to choose. In the meantime the Republican agenda is is not only cowardly, it is hypocritical. To impose new "job killing" regulations on small businesses goes against everything they propose to stand for.
Cathy Fucinari
8:27 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
I find it interesting that the same people who defend Janice's right to use a slur and condemning Lisa for using an anatomically correct label for a part of a woman's body. A part that the legislation is putting at risk for many, many women. This legislation puts many healthcare issues at risk as well.
Republican men have NO business legislating women's healthcare, particularly since they have so little understanding of the issues involved (or apparently the vocabulary). This legislation was written by Right To Life, which is a single issue (which is a constitutional right since 1973). Immediately before the vote, the representatives received the last revision from Right to Life on the floor of the house! That suggests to
me, RTL has managed to work their way into the pockets of the 70 legislators who voted for this bill. Including our own Marty Knollenberg.
Cathy Fucinari
8:28 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
God gave us, men and women, free will. He did not suggest that women needed the supervision of a group of Good Ole Boy legislators in Lansing. I have respect for differences of opinion on this subject. I would never force someone into a decision they didn't want, and the Michigan legislature should never do that either.
Marty Knollenberg is dragging Michigan into the stone age
Brad Young
9:50 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
Knollenberg family is apparently out of touch with reality. That's likely why the old man finally got the boot.
Dr. Jeff Allyn
10:27 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
Freedom of speech, the Constitution, Liberty, Patriotism, Life, Privacy, War, Capitalism, Religion, Immigration, etc., ect.,... we define what these are and flip flop from definition to definition as we please! AAAAAA-men! Very truly yours, The Republican Party
10:33 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
This whole thing is absurd. She was out of line. For as much as that part of a women's body has to do with the legislation being discussed, she could have used "elbow" instead. What about the vagina of the baby girl she supports killing? She doesn't give a damn about that one, does she? Men, whether Republican or democrat should leave the choice to BOTH parents of the child. But no matter what the "choice", the TAX PAYERS should NOT fund ANY of it. That is the what's at the heart of the issue: who pays? Women sho choose to kill their babies always want someone else to pay for it. We'll all be held accountable one day.
Her comment was totally intentional to get the spot light off of her beloved DICTATOR, Obama. Notice how the democrats ALWAYS deflect the spotlight? There is no reason this comment should have gone any further than the floor of the MI chambers. I fault the media for keeping it front and central. But because they won't take it off the front pages, you better keep your eyes on what Obama is doing behind the scenes. Get a clue people.
Helen Rieland
11:30 am on Saturday, June 16, 2012
John - Maybe tax payers shouldn't pay for anything and the government should just pack up and go away. Based on your logic the tax payers shouldn't pay for anything that you don't want, or that any segment of society doesn't want. Sorry but that isn't going to work so well.
The need for almost all health care is the result of choices.
People don't eat right so they have heart attacks or high blood pressure or high cholesterol should taxes cover that? Should we pay for their choices? People exercise and play sports and get sports injuries. Should taxes pay for that?
Some people think the death penalty is appropriate, some don't. Should our tax money pay for that?
Some people think that war is inappropriate, some don't. Should our tax money pay for that?
Name one thing that you think tax payers money should pay for and there's someone who will disagree with you.
And if morals and the support of life were the key issue here, the same people should be screaming about the death penalty and war and providing food for all starving people etc.
Your arguments aren't making sense to me.
2:02 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
Helen, you said it: "The need for almost all health care is the result of choices". CHOICES! That's what our Constitution guarantees us all: FREEDOM to make choices. If you make a choice that results in healthcare needs, you pay for it. Your poor choices shold not become my responsibility. I agree with you that most of government should pack up and go home. Tax payer money should be used to protect our borders and our country's interests abroad, infrastructure and the like.
Do you know what I find hypocritical? Those who support abortion are the first to cry foul over the death penalty. Did you know that Obama (and probably Lisa Brown based on her staunch support of abortion) support the killing of a baby that survives an abortion? It's referred to as infanticide. A second doctor must come and kill the baby so the first doctor can't be sued over botching the job.
2:38 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
John, you do realize that the Affordable Care Act solves the very problem you are ranting about? Currently if someone has no insurance YOU pay for them to be treated in the Emergency Room. How's that working for you? How about instead we have some legislation that requires everyone to be covered -- it's a radical idea that the Republicans used to support. Remember when they used to have ideas and discussion and reach compromise instead of immediately taking the opposing view to the President?
hartland eagle
3:30 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
The Federal government doesn't pay for abortions, and hasn't since 1977.
Helen Rieland
4:26 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
John - the pro-life people are hypocrites too. Do you hear them talking about stopping the death penalty or stopping war. I don't. So it goes both ways.
I don't think I would ever have an abortion but I've never been in the situation where I would have to make that decision. I think we need to leave these choices up to the mother, the faher if he is in the picture and the doctors. I do not agree with the current legislation being put through the MI House. I am pro Choice.
From what I know the legislation is limiting choice for women and it has nothing to do with the government paying anything. Am I wrong?
Marla Swartz
8:40 am on Monday, June 18, 2012
John, you have more than alot of nerve and how dare you call any president that won with majority of the vote a dictator! We need alot more laws for penis's and their owners actions with those in this country if we can't get the right to decide what a woman can or can not do with her own body.
Cathy Fucinari
1:19 pm on Tuesday, June 19, 2012
Her elbow doesn't give birth, you moron. She is not supporting killing anyone. She is supporting the right to control your own body, without the interference of someone else's religion. Both parents don't give birth. Only the mother. It is her body, and any tissue inside of it is part of HER body. No one else's. No one is asking anyone to pay for their healthcare in this issue, and payments are not part of this legislation. She was asking you to get out of the way. This has nothing to do with democrats. Republican women have vaginas too, or haven't you ever noticed? Talk about needing to get a clue!!!
2:24 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
I would suspect without knowing of course that the "speaker" hates to talk about sex as it might lead to the size of his male anatomy and he might really be embarassed. Just a guess of course but some men to hate to talk about sex organs. hmmmmm
4:05 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
I am really sorry and didnt mean to offend someone when I use the word "organ"" in my posting. Please forgive me dont shut me off. Thanks I beg you
Cynthia Wiegand
9:49 pm on Saturday, June 16, 2012
This isnt about body parts nor abortion. Its about the Republican party taking away her constitutional right of free speech. I was a diehard Republican for decades but i am not ever going to vote a republican back into an office again. They hate women, nurses teachers, firefighters, EMS and police. They are a strange breed nowdays. I am Going Democratic.
Herb Helzer
12:50 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Welcome, Cynthia!
If you happen to live in Northville and have some free time this evening, the Northville Democratic Club is meeting at 7:00 p.m. at the Cady Inn at Mill Race Village (off Griswold). We'd love to meet you!
3:12 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
I was a Republican for years but I too have switched over. The Republican party has gone off the deep end in the ways you mention and so many more. It has become a closed minded, anti-scientific, environment destroying, male oriented, gun toting cult that is too busy sucking up to the Koch Brothers and other major donors to care what constituents want.
Formula For Fitness
11:02 am on Sunday, June 17, 2012
It sounds like this debate is all about who pays for the abortion. Who will pay for the unwanted child? The tax payers will pay the bill when the uneducated teenage mother and her child receive welfare for 18 years. It cost $230,000 to properly raise a child from birth to 17 years old. I would rather pay for the abortion, The Republicans are very short sighted.
12:01 pm on Sunday, June 17, 2012
OK, everyone should go and read this legislation. Apparently it's bad to coerce anyone into having an abortion (and really, is anyone going to argue with this?!), but coercing people into giving birth to a child who will be dependent on them for the next 21 or more years is just fine and dandy. Also it's OK for private lobbying groups to give medical advice, and to dictate to the medical profession how to treat their patients. This Bill dictates to doctors what they must do, what they should say, even if the medical information is nonsense.
Seriously, people -- this is not OK. Where is the small government the Republicans seem to want? Where is the freedom they claim we should all have? The personal choice? Instead you want religious lobbying groups to TELL OUR DOCTORS what they should do? Does no one see that this is not a good path to follow?
Herb Helzer
1:07 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
It is particularly revealing how the party that supposedly champions smaller government and less regulation is legislating the exact OPPOSITE in this bill. Just for starters in HB 5711, we see:
An entirely new bureaucracy for the preservation and treatment of fetal remains -- new forms to be completed and tracked, new regulations for burial or cremation, even the involvement of funeral homes (perhaps they expect a brisk sale in shoebox-sized coffins and thimble-sized urns);
Mandatory minimums for malpractice insurance imposed on doctors -- which is particularly interesting given how Sen. Roger Kahn (an incompetent cardiologist before he became a blowhard right-wing hack) wants to make malpractice all-but-impossible to prove or litigate in Michigan.
Mandatory involvment of law enforcement in the interrogation of pregnant women that they're not being coerced, and in the investigation of any stillborn babies or miscarriages that occur in the fifth month of pregnancy or later. Don't our police officers have enough on their plates as is?
New and onerous regulations on clinics designed solely to force many of them to close. But as we know from GOP rhetoric, new regulations ALWAYS mean more bureaucrats to inspect facilites, write reports, enforce the new law...and kill jobs. Odd.
This law, like so many others imposed on the State since January 2011, is hypocritical and intentionally punitive. Only by taking back the Michigan House can this blood-red wave be stopped.
Kevin Moser
10:09 am on Monday, June 18, 2012
Just one more great example of the parties doing everything but what we elected them to do. I really wish people would consider the extremists of both parties in Lansing as well as D.C. not working together to get sometyhing done instead of giving attention to things like this to grab headlines. They certainly are not doing what we elected them to do.
Herb Helzer
1:14 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Party, Kevin. Not "parties." I totally reject the false argument that "both sides are to blame" in what has happened in Lansing since January 2011.
Democrats do not hold a single statewide office, control neither the House nor the Senate, and even when they manage to challenge some of the more onerous legislation, there are four hyper-partisan Republican Supreme Court justices to quell even that hope for redress.
Fortunately, three Supreme Court seats are up for election this November. You want to punish partisan hacks what "are not doing what we elected them to do?" Start with the Michigan Supreme Court by sayiing NO to the incumbents and YES to the "Three Supremes" -- Johnson, Kelley and McCormack.
3:04 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012
Does anyone really think Stamas forbid Lisa Brown from speaking because he was offended? That is ludicrous. I have spent a lot of time around male legislators and they use much more foul language, even during debate.
This was an excuse to shut down people who have a contrary opinion and was particularly patronizing to women.
11:39 am on Tuesday, June 19, 2012
To all you so-called progressive democarts out there ( as well as those that appear to be men haters), Lisa brown's coments were inapproproiate because it had NO relativity to the issues being dicussed...whcih were simply a proposed bill that would limit abortios nAFTER 20 weeks! To te up on the floor and say...I am paraphrasing..."it's so nice to know you are so intrerested in my vagina". What the hell does that have to do with abortion or the bill being discussed?? No one was referring to vaginas..or penis's for that matter. It had to do with the innocent fetus within a prgnant women...living and wih a heart beat, and certainly nothing to do with what was between Brown's legs. And what is "no means no" supposed to refer to? If a women does not want to become pregnant there are many ways to prevent it, but the most effective way is to simply keep her legs together.
Cathy Fucinari
1:21 pm on Tuesday, June 19, 2012
I don't hate men. I only intensely dislike ignorant people. If the show fits......
Debra L. Van Buren
9:43 am on Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Rep. Lisa Brown's comment(s) were blown way out of proportion. She has the right to express herself, and I do not feel she was inappropriate in her remarks. Women have rights, too. Any penalties against her are totally unjustifiable in my opinion.
She is being blamed merely for taking a stand on a very important woman's issue.
Mentioning the word "vagina" should not be construed as offensive by any means in today's society. Women have come a long way . . . Those who deem her comment(s) as offensive and/or objectionable, ought to reconsider the issue, as she is only taking a "bold" stand in favor of women's rights. I defend her action(s) 100% and agree with her philosophy. Times have changed, and those who deem her comment(s) as objectional, must understand that we are living in America. Freedoms exist, and I applaud her for taking such a bold stand.
2:55 pm on Thursday, June 21, 2012
You still don't seem to get it. Probably because your liberality just gets in the way of your common sense. I guess she has the right to stand up on the floor of the house of represenatives and say "vagina" as many times as she likes and sound like the frustrated women she is...but what good is that if it has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand?? Her vagina has nothing to do with abortion. Who does she t hink is trying to legisslate anythin g abouyt her vagina. It has nothing to do with the debate at hand. She was just trying to be so very "progressive" by using that word. It only shows her limited ability to experss herself by using inappropriate verbiage and accusing someone (a man) of having undue intrest in her genitals. My god--what's wrong with you people? And..Ms Fucinari---it's SHOE, not show! I think you just might have an intense diislike about most anything.


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A strand set with thirteen round Tahitian Pearls, 11-12mm & blackish in color, and 42 gold bead spacers, with a 14K white-gold clasp set with six faceted round Diamonds totaling 0.03 carats, total weight, 17" in length.