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WEDNESDAY, Oct. 31 (HealthDay News) -- Women who first learn how to maintain their weight regain fewer of the pounds they shed in a weight-loss program, a new study suggests.
The study included 267 overweight/obese women who were assigned to two groups. One group spent eight weeks learning how to maintain their weight and then began a 20-week weight-loss program that emphasized greater consumption of vegetables and fruits, increased physical activity and the use of proven dieting strategies, such as keeping daily food records.
Women in the control group did the opposite, first doing the weight-loss program, and then learning how to maintain their weight.
Initially, both groups of women lost a similar amount of weight, an average of about 17 pounds (9 percent) of their starting weight. The women were then on their own for one year. At the end of that time, the researchers checked the women's weights.
The women in the maintenance-first group regained an average of three pounds and those in the control group regained seven pounds, according to the Stanford University School of Medicine researchers.
They also found that 33 percent of the women in the maintenance-first group and 18 percent of those in the control displayed a "favorable pattern" -- that is, losing at least 5 percent of their body weight without regaining more than five pounds during the follow-up year.
The findings, published online Oct. 31 in the Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, suggest that learning about weight maintenance first may help reduce the chances of yo-yo dieting, the researchers said.
"Those eight weeks were like a practice run. Women could try out different stability skills and work out the kinks without the pressure of worrying about how much weight they had lost," study author Michaela Kiernan, a senior research scientist at the Stanford Prevention Research Center, said in a university news release.
"We found that waiting those eight weeks didn't make the women any less successful at losing weight. But even better, women who practiced stability first were more successful in maintaining that loss after a year," she noted.
More information
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has more about healthy weight.
Copyright © 2013 HealthDay. All rights reserved.
HealthDayNews articles are derived from various sources and do not reflect federal policy. healthfinder.gov does not endorse opinions, products, or services that may appear in news stories. For more information on health topics in the news, visit Health News on healthfinder.gov.


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We have an impressive track record of working with associations to shape laws and regulations that impact their members. Because we manage nonprofits, we understand that your public policy program should support other objectives: attracting and keeping members, cultivating new volunteer leaders, enhancing publications to improve advertising revenue, increasing the industry's visibility with important external audiences, and more. We will also take this same objective-oriented approach when providing your association's operational infrastructure, managing your public relations, or counseling your organization on employment, antitrust, corporate, and campaign finance law issues.
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Whether you want to launch a new organization, affect the policy process, or ensure compliance with existing laws, we can help. OFMK: Managing the intersection of business and government.

subset: commoncrawl


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Luxurious Kitchen Furniture Designs
Luxurious kitchen furniture and concept
Luxurious kitchen furniture designs can be painted or hand-built with recycled wood. You'll need to think about the kind of style that are suitable for you when planning your luxury kitchen designs. You can make your luxury kitchen counter tops that are colored or just a basic neutral color counter top. If the counter tops are colored, you can use the storage rooms or cabinets, or to adjust a color that will compliment the counters. For example, if you have a wooden counter top design, can be stainless steel or chrome accents or finishing. You can find a luxury kitchen design styles, online and in magazines. (more…)


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House Points | |||
Gryffindor: 170 |
Slytherin: 48 |
Ravenclaw: 880 |
Hufflepuff: 1022 |
Follow @HIRPies |
Date: January 16th, 2013
Today's Forecast: The air is reminiscent of spring. The snow, turning slowly into a fine carpet of slush, is slowly disappearing after a decidedly warm spell. |
It is now: Year 7 - Day 4 - Free Period
Happening now: Azkaban Trip Breakfast is now out of time. Feel free to continue all plots as planned. Feel free to finish all plots out of time. |
Next: Day 4: Quidditch Practice or Dinner |
Read Today's Daily Prophet: Knights of Walpurgis attack Hogwarts; Belleford steps down as Hogwarts closes until further notice |
1:24 AM Jun 20 |
Follow @HIRPies |
HIRP has a Vlog! Click here to read the announcement! |


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PASLODE 30 degree Cordless Framing NailerIn very good condition. Has battery and battery charger, and an extra gas cartridge. Also, comes with a few nails. All in the factory hard case.Call: 469-231-1438asking $250.00 Sells new at home depot for $425+tax. More info Email a friend |
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text: Just got back from a lovely trip to the Italian Riviera, where we stopped at Camping Miraflores. We looked for somewhere else to stay for ages and everything was so over priced for that time of year so we decided to stop at Camping Miraflores.for 100 euros a night. We stopped in a superior mobile home with a friend and... More


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Chegg does not guarantee CDs, access codes, or lab manuals with this book.
PUBLISHER: Indiana University Press
AUTHORS: Conrad Cherry, Stephen J Stein
The Theology of Jonathan Edwards: "... the Edwards of Cherry sits for a[n]... intellectual portrait, done with concepts as colors and with reason as the brush. It is a... picture... faithfully and competently drawn." —New York Times Book Review, 1967"... this is a very... Show more»
Rent The Theology of Jonathan Edwards today, or search our site for other Cherry Religious textbooks. All of our textbooks come with a 21 day Satisfaction Guarantee, 14 days for eTextbooks.


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Monitor breaking maritime news and insights for profitable, efficient and safe shipping.
The police officials have classified the robbing of some crew members onboard a cargo vessel offshore near Miri on Monday as a case of robbery at sea.
Mun Kock Keong, who is police chief Asst Comm at Miri told whether or not the accident was the work of pirates or just local robbers is being investigated by the maritime and police officials.
"The crew members have lodged an official police report on the accident. We have referred the case to the maritime enforcement agency since it is a case of robbery, which occurred at sea.
"Whether or not pirates are involved in this robbery, they are being investigated," he added when asked about the accident where 3 crew members were told to be injured during a scuffle with a group of masked people that boarded the cargo vessel while it was sailing from the Kuala Baram port to Bintulu.
It was also said that the masked people boarded the cargo vessel in the dark of the night and robbed the crew members of cash and personal items like hand phones.
It was presumed that the robberies were the work of locals and not pirates from other places as there are no nearby islands where pirates can hide out.
The nearest island from Miri is Labuan, which is well-patrolled by security officers.
MOL Comfort (ex APL Russia) sank due to yet unclear reasons, sailing from Singapore to Jeddah and after that to North Europe, leaving behind hundreds of drifting containers and a huge aftershock hitting liner sector and all of the maritime industry.
Even the scale of the consequences is hard, impossible, to estimate, not to mention consequences themselves. This is the 1st case in liner sector, when modern ocean-going liner container vessel (built in Japan!) sank in the ocean after breaking in 2 parts, like a poorly built and managed bulk carrier or over aged coaster. Nothing like this ever occurred, and no one believed it was possible, even theoretically. It just could not happen, but still, here it is.
At present stage, even the weirdest theories of the real cause of this accident can not be ignored, something like explosion or several explosions, or whatever else one may fantasize.
Putting aside some exotic versions, most likely causes that come into mind are some basic design and building faults; serious disbalance of the loaded containers weight due to false cargo weight declarations and faulty cargo plan; faulty ballasting of the container ship. Most probably, if that's the case, the sinking was caused not by just one of the above-mentioned factors, but by their combination, and triggered by rough weather.
If it is going to be found, that there were a few factors involved, then, the questions arise which require sound and unequivocal answers.
The questions of insurance and cargo loss coverage for shippers, especially minor ones, is also important, too.
We do not also have to forget another risk quite a number of experts are already worried over – the risk of major fire on a giant ocean-going container vessel.
One thing is clear, though. The liner sector, 1st of all majors, are going to do whatever it takes to hide unfavorable factors and especially, basic faults, if there are any. The awesome container transportation mechanism they created may not stand serious modifications, called by safety needs.
Koichi Muto, President of the Tokyo - Mitsui O.S.K. Lines reported that the container vessel MOL Comfort (ex APL Russia container ship) couldn't continue sailing under its own power because the vessel's hull suffered a serious crack amidships while sailing on the Indian Ocean. The container ship was fractured in 2 parts, fore and aft.
At 7:00 a.m. local time on Tuesday, 18th of June, 2013, the fore part of the hull is drifting around 13' 00" N 60' 40" E, and the aft part is about 19 nautical miles southwest from that point. At present, both parts of the container vessel MOL Comfort are laden with containers and drifting in an east-northeast direction. We are also arranging tug vessels to tow both parts of our container ship.
Related: Lost containers as MOL Comfort Suffered Damage due to bad weather
There are no indications as yet of a major oil leak of MOL Comfort near the site. Continue reading →
Mitsui O.S.K. Lines announced in a statement that the MOL-operated container vessel MOL Comfort experienced a crack amidships and ingressed water in the hold while sailing from Singapore to Jeddah on the Indian Ocean on 17th of June, 2013 due to inclement weather conditions.
Due to bad weather it was impossible for the container ship to continue on, under its own power.
Some of the onboard containers on the MOL Confort were lost overboard or suffered damage during the accident. Details are being confirmed.
The damage to the MOL-operated container ship, MOL Comfort is extensive, while the twenty-six crew members took to life boats. All people onboard the container ship were safely rescued by other ships in the area.
Mitsui O.S.K. Lines instantly set up the Emergency Control Headquarters for the accident, and is taking company-wide measures necessary to address the matter properly.
The container shipping entity of Danish shipping industry and oil group A.P. Moller-Maersk has entered into a brand-new alliance with its 2 biggest rivals CMA CGM and to Mediterranean Shipping Company S.A. in order to enhance operations and services.
The 3 biggest container shipping companies in the world measured on capacity, intend to start operations in the 2nd quarter of 2014, depending on regulatory approvals, according to the statement of Maersk Line.
The mega alliance, the P3, is going to be an independently operated network, which is consisted of 255 ships with a total capacity of 2,6 million TEUs, and is going to be serving the Asia-Europe, Transpacific, and Transatlantic (North Europe and Mediterranean) trades, reported the company.
Maersk Line, as the biggest international shipping company is going to contribute with over 100 ships.
In the statement, Maersk Line announced that alliance is lead by declining volume growth and over-capacity in recent years and this has underlined the need to enhance operations and efficiency in the industry.
The 3 international shipping companies are going to continue with their fully independent sales, marketing and customer service work.
The alliance is going to allow each of the shipping lines to offer more weekly sailings in the combined network, which they do individually. Additionally, the network is planned to offer more direct ports of call, Maersk Line told in the statement.


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Home | myCampus | Directory | Employment | Calendar |
The faculty and staff of the School of Nursing welcome you to our website. Information is available about a career in nursing and about opportunities available to you at the University of the Virgin Islands.
We have two generic nursing programs on two campuses. On the St. Thomas Campus we offer the Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree and on the St. Croix Campus we offer the Associate of Science in Nursing (ASN) degree. Graduates of both programs are eligible to apply to take the licensure exam, NCLEX-RN, in any state or territory. For registered nurses interested in completing the BSN degree, programs are available on both campuses.
Both degrees are fully accredited by the National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission (NLNAC).
We hope that you will feel free to contact us or come by and visit us in person to find out more about our nursing programs.
The School of Nursing, in a learner-focused and multi-cultural environment, prepares its graduates to enter the humanistic profession of nursing which serves the client by facilitating optimal health or a dignified and peaceful death through the implementation of various roles. The graduate employs empirically based processes and theoretical formulations that guide understanding and interpretation of the client's needs, behaviors and outcomes. The School is committed to preparing graduates who demonstrate competence, critical thinking skills, commitment to societal and individual betterment and professionalism while upholding an ethical code of conduct.


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Caption This! Cat in a Christmas Tree
In our Caption This contest, we ask you to come up with your funniest caption to this great photo.
We had nearly two dozen captions submitted for the photo of two dogs seemingly playing hide-and-go-seek in last week's Caption This contest.
The Patch judges awarded title of best caption to Dad for: "1-1000 2-1000 3-1000 4-1000..........."
Both Dad and Skokie Patch editor George Slefo, who submitted the photo, will get a digital copy of the photo with the caption affixed. You can click on the thumbnail above to see what it looks like.
For next week, we've got another holiday themed picture, this time a cat perched in a Christmas tree. You can start posting your funniest captions in the comments section now.
Here's how it works:
* In the comments section below, write in your best idea for a funny caption for this photo. Comments must be in by noon Friday.
* The esteemed Patch judges will pick our favorite and announce it Monday, along with a new photo to caption.
* Both the caption writer and the reader who submitted the photo will get an emailed copy of the captioned photo.
Want to upload your own funny pet photos for future caption consideration? Please do by clicking through to this article.
Deb Fischer
9:27 am on Monday, December 31, 2012
Santa, About that little dog incident .... I can explain ...
Vicky Kujawa
12:55 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012
....this wasn't what you meant when you told me to go play on the cat tree....?
Lisa Bradford
2:54 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012
You mean there's a pickle in here some where???
3:44 pm on Thursday, January 3, 2013
I left meow mix out for santa Lets see if he actually eats it this year.


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Tags: Reference, Writing,
Book Description:The best-selling college rhetoric for nearly 25 years, The St. Martin's Guide has achieved an unparalleled record of success by providing practical innovations for the ever-changing composition course. Comprehensive yet flexible, The Guide's acclaimed step-by-step guides to each type of writing offer sure-fire invention strategies to get students started, combined with thorough advice on critical reading, working with sources, and careful revision. Axelrod and Cooper's class-tested guidance on visual rhetoric, online teaching and learning, and more is available for instructors who incorporate these topics into their courses — but not intrusive, for those who don't. The new edition has been re-engineered to reflect and build on the actual writing processes of students and does even more to prepare them for the writing they will do in other college courses.
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Digital Planet: Creatures of the Watery Abyss!
Did you miss the Summer application deadline? Apply for the Youth Design Team School-Year Academic Course.
Epic filmmaking. Darkest ocean depths. Secrets of the Museum revealed. Your best summer yet.
Join the Digital Planet crew and embark on an epic filmmaking adventure in Summer 2013! We'll explore the most remote part of the planet: the ocean floor. Travel (virtually) to depths rarely seen, learn the secrets of bioluminescent fishes, and get an insider's view behind this summer's exhibition, Creatures of Light. Then, make your own movie magic! You'll meet with scientists and see the specimens that are not only changing science but also changing the future of your world. You'll also get to work with real-world filmmakers who can help you improve your cinematic skills.
- Learn film techniques like storyboarding and movie production basics
- See amazing, logic-defying underwater creatures that will blow your mind
- Meet scientists who go on expeditions in underwater submersibles
- Meet and work with real film professionals who make movies for a living
- Go behind-the-scenes at the Museum
- Produce your own movie that will be seen by Museum visitors and be posted on the Museum's web site
- Make new friends with awesome teens like you!
Related quote
When: 9am-3pm, July 8th-12th OR 9am-3pm, July 15th-19th
Who: 14-18 year olds
Program is FREE. Public transportation assistance is available. Snacks and lunch provided. Space is limited to 20 participants.
APPLICATIONS ARE DUE May 20th, 2013.
Need a paper application? Download one below!
Questions? Send us an emailRelated Content
Plan your visit
Open every day except Christmas. 9am - 5pm
1400 S Lake Shore Drive Chicago, IL 60605


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We are experts in delivering Enterprise Performance Management solutions: helping Chief Financial Officers plan, budget, consolidate actuals, integrate accounting data sources, report and achieve international financial reporting standards compliance. Our services cover all industries and all corporation sizes.
The company started its activity in August 2002 and more than 10 years later it has served close to 200 customers in more than 10 countries, on three continents!
The group operates today offices in Zug, Geneva, Düsseldorf, Vienna and Paris.


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Welcome to Oprah.com
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Oceans of Fun: The Aqua Nail Polishes You Have to TryWith so many shades to choose from, it's time to give blue a hand.
Jenny Bailly
Photo: Ben Goldstein/Studio D
Dip your toes in the sea early and often this season—even when you're far from the beach. Spring's most alluring, pedicure-perfect polishes capture the varied, vibrant colors of the ocean, from azure to turquoise to deep cobalt blue.
From the April 2012 issue of O, The Oprah Magazine
Related ResourcesKeep Reading52 Week-by-Week ResolutionsHere's our list of gradual, fun and doable changes, one for each week of 2012, that may just add up to some big changes in your year and life. 15 Beauty Must-Haves for May 2013Polishes that span the color spectrum, a five-setting toothbrush, spray-on body lotion and more. 14 Reasons to Wear Pink Makeup This SpringFrom electric Pepto and fiery fandango to powdery rose and soft salmon, there's at least one pretty pink in this season's brilliant color wheel guaranteed to brighten your face and mood. Advertisement
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Rank: 1805
active 5 days, 15 hours ago
Search the Street Team
Jaasiel's Badges
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I love the color pink so much that I felt like i should have pink hair c:
Kameko's Corner
https://twitter.com/hvanevery https://www.facebook.com/hlly.ve
so lost but not alone.as somehow i learn to overcome ill be okay.
its just a complex life. ive been bullied for being myself.... umm i love chatting with the guys and gurlz on here so request e if yall got questions!!!
My life story hmm. that would be a good question.. There has been tons of stuff going through my life so its a bit hard to say and honestly I have done a lot as far as creating a better impact in the world. I have developed some cool apps I play drums even participated in a few in the past but, it really comes down to what is my life story? I don't know.. Its hard to tell and understand.
i dont care what anybody says about me haters going hate ive been a vegetarian for 1 year now find me on youtube under 21darkstitches o im 15
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Calculate the average commission (name it as AverageCommission) earned by "Jeremy Tylor" between August 15, 2012 and August 31, 2012.
How do I get it to retrieve only one (Jeremy Tylor's) earnings?
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The Community Cafe needs a new home, and we hope there's a Lake Wylie organization that can help keep this ministry alive here.
Started by River Hills Community Church volunteers, the cafe has been dishing out free soup and sandwich meals since January 2010. The brainstorm of church members, the effort was launched during the coldest months to help families during the economic recession. With more than 33,000 meals served in Lake Wylie since opening (plus 7,500 in the Fort Mill location that opened in 2011), it has been nourishing more than bellies.
The Cafe has filled a vision, too, of sharing in community fellowship – "creating new friendships and new relationships with people in the community," as River Hills Community Church leaders said at its start. Every Wednesday at lunchtime, strangers sit down together to share a meal at the cafe. But they leave knowing a little bit more about their neighbors, their friends and families. The Cafe encourages a greater sense of community – togetherness.
In a time when, studies show, one in 10 families never eat a meal together, the Cafe has extended a hand in reaching out, welcoming its community to come in and sit down for a meal together. It has pulled a community together. It has been a unifier. The Cafe uses such a welcoming model, in fact, it draws in people from all walks of life – those in financial struggles and those who can donate to keep the meals and the ministry afloat.
It's unfortunate this outreach program no longer fits in the church's vision.
The value of this successful outreach program is priceless. We hope someone else will step forward to save this community ministry.
Lake Wylie Pilot is pleased to be able to offer its users the opportunity to make comments and hold conversations online. However, the interactive nature of the internet makes it impracticable for our staff to monitor each and every posting.
Since Lakewyliepilot.com does not control user submitted statements, we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted on our website. In addition, we remind anyone interested in making an online comment that responsibility for statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not Lake Wylie Pilot.
If you find a comment offensive, clicking on exclamation icon will flag the comment for review by the administrators, we are counting on the good judgment of all our readers to help us.


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WANT Les Essentiels de la Vie
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Editors' Notes
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Liven up your off-duty outfits with this organic cotton-canvas and leather tote bag from esteemed accessories brand WANT Les Essentiels de la Vie. The nautical shades of blue, white and red will make a sophisticated statement whether you're heading to the beach or into town. Shown here with a Levi's Vintage Clothing shirt, Oliver Spencer T-shirt, J.Crew trousers and Quoddy shoes. This bag is part of a limited, numbered edition of 400, available first at MR PORTER
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So, who wants a beta? Since news has been so achingly slow as of late I figured what the hell why not. I dont have the means to rip all of mine right now so you have a limited selection. Im gonna impose a poll on you, and once I get an unspecified amount of responses on it I'll release it to forum members only. It should be noted that only the E3 one is an actual beta, the other two are hacked versions of the retail demo releases with the debug menu activated. Either way you'll be playing something that only one person has a copy of, so enjoy it. If someone screws around and this leaks to P2P or it starts getting traded there'll be dire consiquences for future releases.
In short dont share it beyond the community. If I see that I'm gonna be pretty angry.
Time to choose Mr. Freeman...Time to choose (View comments to vote on the poll).


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Invite a friend
Santa and the Ice Queen
New Dawn Theater Company, 3087 Main St, Duluth, GA | Get Directions »
It's almost Christmas and Santa has no letters to tell him what toys children want this year. Why aren't the children writing? Santa and Mrs. Claus decide to make some changes to get the children's attention, but they get more than they bargained for when the Ice Queen comes to the North Pole to help. It will take elves, reindeer, trolls and most importantly, the audience, to make sure Santa is ready to make his deliveries on Christmas Eve.
Audience participation; Great introduction to the theater for young children.
Nov. 29-Dec. 15: Thurs., Fri., Sat. 11am; Tickets: $6 each reserved; $7 at the door; GROUP RATE AVAILABLE. New Dawn Theater Box Office: 678-887-5015; firstname.lastname@example.com; http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rising-Stars/233366310010455
Event Details
Where | New Dawn Theater Company 3087 Main St, Duluth, GA 30096 |
Next on | This event is over. |
Time | 11:00 am–12:00 pm |
Who to bring | Everyone, Kids, Families, Seniors |
Website | http://www.newdawntheatercompany.com |
Phone | 678-887-5015 |
email@example.com | |
Price | $6 reserved; $7 at the door |
Tickets | Buy Tickets |
More About New Dawn Theater Company
The New Dawn Theater Company is in the heart of historic Duluth. Owned and operated by the Inbritsens, it's the perfect place to enjoy many of your favorite productions. The theater also helps foster new talent through its "Rising Stars" casting opportunities and it puts on several productions each year. Tickets are inexpensive so show your support for the arts by booking tickets for the next show.
Other events here
- New Dawn Theater Moving Sale May 24, 2013 / May 25, 2013, 8:00 am–3:00 pm
- New Dawn Kids June 3, 2013 / June 10, 2013, 3:30 pm


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Healthcare policy refers to the government regulations and guidelines that exist to operate, finance, and shape the delivery of healthcare. Healthcare policy covers a range of health related issues including: the financing of health care, public health, preventive health care, chronic illness and disability, long-term care, and mental health.
Currently there is a debate concerning the availability of birth control coverage to American woman and religious freedom protected by the 1st Amendment. The problem is the reality that not all women take the pill to prevent unwanted pregnancies. In fact, women are often prescribed the pill for the therapeutic benefits it offers including protection against:
- bone thinning
- cysts in the breasts and ovaries
- ectopic pregnancy
- endometrial and ovarian cancers
- extremely irregular menstrual cycles
- headaches and depression associated with menstruation
- iron deficiency anemia
- pelvic inflammatory disease
- serious infection in the ovaries, tubes, and uterus
As such, the Obama administration views birth control as merely a women's health issue. However, for some, the whole notion of birth control violates a religious belief that life begins at conception. Should employers be forced, as mandated by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, to provide a service that violates their personal religious conviction? In other words, which liberty is more important, the privacy rights of the employee or the religious freedom of the employer?


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>OE3?, MEMOHIMJ LIBB&fif SIXTJSJEN I:. V THiE IiEADEB THUBSDJlY; MAY 15,71952 '^^^•••'"""'•"""•'"i"^^"^' Reg. 49.95 -Size 9ft. x 12ft. TOE QUALITY COTTON WOP RUGS. WASHABLE, NON-SKID LATEX BACK. ASSORTED, MOST WANTED DECORATORS COLORS. WEST Bfll^BlwHBHCTnHHHBB^HBIHI^HiBBBHI^^^^^^^^DB^^H BNHM^^B^H^^^H^Hj^^^R^B^^B^H^^^^^^^^HH^^^^^I^^^^^^^^^H ^^L^;:,;r::v:^y^:;^^^CT - • - : [ " : .'• t:'v7:^-^:^S^^!r?|^|M '-- ' - .•,vV-';:-^^1^^-#| , .._.'"_.;_.. ..;.V-V-r;-::-C££Ml$&^ OTHER SIZES AT SAVINGS1 SIZE 6' x 9' Reg. 29.95" ' SALE PRICE SIZE 4' x 6' Reg. 11.95 SALE PRICE SIZE 30" x 54" Reg. 6.98 SALE PRICE SIZE 24" x 48" Reg. 5.98 . SALE PRICE SIZE 24" x 36" Reg. 3.98 SALE PRICE 1- REG. 16.95-19.95 SAVE ON YOUR FIBRE RUG NOW ! Made of tough Kraft Fibre woven, Re-versible for use on both sides, in Multi- * ' . ' • Colors, Plaids and Interrupted Stripe weaves. In Grey, Green, Blue, Wine and Tan. 25.50-27^95 ! ANOTHEIfGREAT VALUEIi 3^ Save Tremendously!1 Hiirry in! EVES '.'' ••'., '.'/.,-.';• '• '•'-. ••'• ,'1'.' ''v'- . >i ; m§ ;^;§| ONE OF THE'LARGEST GOVERING ESTABLISHMENTS IN NASSAU COUNTY ' - MCE 18- MONTHS TO" PAY NCXTE! FREE PARKING AVAILABLE IN REAR OF QURSTpRE CARS — ENTRANCE ON SO; MAIN, OR SMITH ST 1 . ' ' 7 ' ' I ' . ' . - . • • • , - - , . ' • ' • ' . • , * - . • : FR. 9-2526 4 DOORS FftOM S. MAIN ST. OUR STORE POLICY WE ,OAB&Y ALL FAMOUS BRANDS OP mGH QUALITY MEECHANDISB IN LARGE Ai^bETmENTS! AT CJUABANTEED LOW PRICES! OVER 40 YEARS bp: HOME FURNISHING ^EXPERIENCE AT YOUR DISPOSAL I> . -. - • -.": '; - I - , - . . . - . - ' . . • - - ; W: .. ' - : '•• ., .V-' v*?.'•.'."-.•: (. LEHMAN'S—THE STOEE FOE jfOU1 FOLLOW THE LEADER FOR RELIABLE ADVERTISING • ' • "" . - • . : . . . - . , . . - . _' ,. -.'.-; ••' { •'(--• ..';_•"•'>' ViTif^frj Compliments of . - - • • • * • The Meadow-B- rook Nati•o nal-• -B-•a->n•k' •?^'•v^^ym•^mt;ci^l mt^ >; i -:-•>-..,-.',.,-1,:. .•>:.!/''!• "FREEPORT'S OFFICIAL NEWSPAPER" FOIXO^THE UELAJ>EBL I: ' FOR -^ NEIGHBORLY -NEWS 17th Year, No. 1 FKEEPOET, N. Y., THURSDAY, MAY 22,-1952 FIVE CENTS PEE COPY Lasting Public Zoning Hearing Four Hours Is Final of Series Davison Asks Change In Manner of Handling Setback Ordinances A crowd estimated at 50 persons attended the public hearing of Freepont's Zoning Ordinance No. 10 at the Municipal Building Monday night and consumed four hours dis-cussing -the 58 pages of -ttie ordin-ance in its new form under, tlje re-codification of village ordinances. The Village of Freeport formerly had more than 200 ordinances. Un-der the modification there will be only 10 main ordinances with all the former separate ordinances grouped under (the 10 main ordinances as sections or subdivisions. The Zon-ing Ordinance oh which Monday's hearing was held will be the last of the 10 ordinances. All members of tfhe Village Board attended the hearing, but Mayor Robert L. Doxsee asked Village Council Martin H. Weyrauch to preside after he had opened the meeting, stating that he would be in a better position to answer ques-tions and direct the discussion. Pre-sent also was George Malslen, who has worked on this phase of the recodiflcatlon. A number of attorneys took pant in the discussion, among whom was Alfred T. Davison of Garden Freeport's New Drum Majorette Marleigh Chandler, selected as drum majorette for the Freeport High .School Band to succeed Jane Yarow* who held the post during the current year. —Bagatelle Photo a former chairman of Freeport's Zoning Board .of Appeals during the time he was a resident- of the Vil-lage.—— -- _^ _____ Mr. Davison objected to including -~ieeittoacJC..'ttT<J |nt a n c e a anticipating — : street; ; widen/Ings In the zonln'g "or- . .. ••/ jnade ,, the point ..the ->; iwttttiudfc . orcUrmnoea . -wtire aidopfapd. lor1 . etree* as 'might some day be involved in widening projects and should toe treated apamt from the comprehensive zoning ordinance. Mr. Weyrauch and members of the Vil-lage Board indicated they were Im-pressed by the logic of Mr. Davison's argument and probably would make this change. The meeting was prolonged be-cause of the length of the ordin-ance and its many provisions, so thai It was about 12:30 -when the hearing was finally closed. The Board took no action on the ordin-ance at the meeting. Rotary Club Team Leading In Freeport's Little League (Scores on Page 13) The Rotary Club team has taken the lead in Freeport's Salvation Army Drive l Reports are Favorable Harold.P,. Strohspri,-^mlnnon of the Freeport Salvation Army cam-paign to raise $6,500 to carry on the work here during the next year ex-pects that regpterte to be submitted at the next report meeting In head-quarters, 76 Church street, JMtonday night, win show thtaft the drive is well on the way to success. Mrs. W. W. Sutton, -chairman of residential solicitations, has Issued a request that workers in the vari-ous districts turn all tfce money they have collected in to their cap-tains before the report meeting so as to have as near a complete ac-counting as possible. Marleigh Chandler Kew Drum Majorette Coveted Position Goes To High School Junior; Succeeds Jane Yarrow Marleigh Chandler, daughter &t Mr.' and Mrs, Wolcott C. Chandler, 74 Delaware avenue, was selected to succeed Jane majorette of Yarrow as drum-the Freeport High Harold A. WiOets, Victim of Accident, Buried in Greenfield 200 Attend Rites of Police and Firemen; ServicesTln Church Olhe Rev. Eugene K. Strebel offi-ciated at funeral services In Christ Lutheran Church yesterday after-noon for Harold A. Wdllelte, a mem-ber of the Freeport Police force who was killed in an automobile accident, in Massaipequa Sunday morning. Burial followed in Greenfield Ceme-tery. . More than 200 members of the Fire and Police departments and otftier friends gta/thered in the resi-dence of Richard A. Huhigerford, South Ocean avenue and Pine streeit Tuesday night for the rites 61 the -two- departments which were con-ducted by ths Rev. Reginald H. Scobt, rector of ths Transfiguration Episcopal Church and chaplain of the Fire Department. . Paibrolman* WUlets was "born in Freetporl 45 years ago and Hved in' .this village all his life,.; At .the re-cent insballaiUon__Ql ofificers-al the i -•-;) V;i: "''*1 E • •• Little League by defeating the and B'nai B'ribh squads. At the opening of the season. Saturday on the Elks Pieldr the ' tarians downed the Elks by a score of ' 11 to Ot in'.. a . game in \yhich Mike Madden^~theirrfaTirlerr:8laruok • out 17 out " " ''" Monday ' zuguill; "by B'nai. B'rlth team. ;6ff .GtridJ? in the *<».j*- -'1*11. m.- • l*i-r*A*+fm ' 4-\\'*i L<T>mfin nirt " JfM^h all "their runs .In -the first towo innings, though .they made only three, (hits, one In the. first when scored 6 runs, and two in the seconc when *hey added 4 more. Only four 'of the 12 runs were earned, and bases on balls also aided in the scoring carnage. Representatives. of. Justice (Lodge and-Chapter, B'nai B*rith, fought gamely and after scoring a run In •the initial .inning, added fcwo more to the second, .ffchree in the fourth and:-two in 4foe fifth at the end of *fjt"U^' School marching band at the annual twirling contest finals held Satur-;-Freepont Fire Department, he re-day, Dr. J. Maynard WtWtlaufer,' celved a 25-year badge as a member the director, announced today. I01* Hose C5o.» 2, ot wtoich:/ne_ was:a Miss Chandler, 17 years old, a' past captain. He was appointed to Junior and honor student, has oeen'tne police,force four, years-ago. He twirling "tor" six years and received served. In th$ Army durtog «Wprld many honors. She has been Warded. Warn. . ^, , - > ' . •'» i i--. -..c"o..v,>e-iat ed. ",-1v",. ^r.a^tjiznzgv,i .iet-x^c- ellent.1," ti pHniisn. gw . iinfe, ,,- WEaliszhabinegthb,o .n,vr,rptajsC:--,:,vtaacnad-- - *1i~"iJ>^ie' ^ nlane- afli^bon,as .ishb- """' ""* the --i^a^lmatifcdeath.' School rfour - , and has won medals and ,; honors in'i many .contests! ail •W«^*ie'. ev.1p -••'•o "-• r> •t» w~t>B"Viof^ y' -r:~2lr The Nassau County Police Boys' Club, Inc., lhas issued its annual ap-peal for funds. The Freeport Police Music Oaonp twirling school for three summers and is recognized as a champion. Miss Chandler has studied with Major John Totllas, Daniel Per-kins, Walter McShea and Maynard Veller, national commander of the , Surviving . betildeti '.hls^wife -WilletB, his and a BT,o ys', C«tl ubi- 4is n_oi.t af*f*ijl«i aAte dj _w_i.t*h« *t*h. e | Au^Am.erIcan Drum Majors Asso-county organizations and quently receives no financial assis-tance from it. Hundreds of conse- elation. She is entered in the East-ern Seaboard twirling con teat to appeals have been Fordham Instructor Stella_MarisVSpeaker , Kev. Hbnan-O. Bmhnigan, S.J., who is In charge of the Russian _Cen<ter at SFtordham UnUversity, spoke on "The Attitude of the Holy See , on Apostolic Work for __ Russia," at the ^ommtmlon- broak- -:-fast- otf -Court Stella 'Marfi, C. D. of A., in the Elks clubhouse SilndaV morning. • _ . . . ' , . - v - •He called for the_ education of title whlch-4ihe game was called on ac-count of darkness; All the B'nai B'rith runs were earned as the Ro-tary Olub played errorless-boll. — Dave Carver pitched to elgjhtt Ro- People to goin^on in of fwhat is areas so as be prepared" to combat the in-roads of Communism. Dr. Lufci Btilde, 'of Baldwin, na-tional chairman of Education for, the Catiholic Daughters, also spoke; Miss Elizabeth Hass, the district deputy, was introduced. Mrs. John S. Powers, grand re- . gejit-elect, 'officiated as mlsress of ceremonies. Mons. John J. Mahon and ,he Rev. John P. Drab were other speakers; The members of the Court attended <fche 8 o'clock m&es at Our Holy Redeemer Church and partook of communion, after which (they proceeded to ifche Elks club for breakfast Council's Annual Meeting Monday The annual meeting and ele-tftdon ?tois Jn the first iti-n<ny» and then Retired in favor of Franfc-Mte-daglla, *wiho after a hectic second inmtag, settled down and Oield the winners at bay ithereafter. Bob -Ramadell, wfib (started on. the mound for iRo^ary, gavc_way_$o. Steve Ros-asco aifter-itwo innings. V^~ The* contest between the^Elks and -Exchange, dub scheduled for-Tues-d& sr alghft was. called of f on account of wet grounds * _ T^he-seasoa was gotten underway according to schedule The parade, headed, toy a-pollce escort arid the Fire Department wtth tts apparatus and band moved almost on time. Then come .the Junior High School band, with sMlarilyn Heiler as dmm- (Contlnued on Page 12) received by Freeport residents and business /concerns asking them to contribute to the county campaign. t a cent given to this cause by Freeporters will be spent in iRree- . The patrolman, was> kUied' his car apparently 'aldddod &a'*• o. curve near West Shore Drive, Mass-apequa, and crashed Into a tree, throwing him into the roadway. He was dead wfrien Dr. Anthony Dl- Benetto arrived In an ambulance from 'the Meadcwbrook Hospital. He was on his way to the police station to report for duty ait 8 be conducted in Mineola on Satur-1 o*<;lcck when the accident happened. ji_ __ ^r~*** *>i 1^** — .port. The 'Freeport P. B. C., needs every cent it can raise <to carry on its work in this village. Patrolman Jo-seph 'Bomeika the director, declares. He suggests that residents of Jlree-port who are considering giving to county club, send any contributions they have"iii mind to the Freeport Police -Boys' Club instead. The Free-port Club's- iheadquarters are:- in the Municipal Building. day, May 31. Miss Grace L. Stenlafce, of Jersey City, ^a former national twirling champion, and now director of several outsbanddng twirling groups In New Jersey, Judged the contest-ante. Dr. Webtlaufer was in charge. Names of members of the twirl-ing staff will be announced later. CHUBBUCKfS DRUG STORE OPEN ALL DAY SUNDAY Chubbuck's Drug Store,' South Main street and Sunrise Highway, will remain open Sunday after the other .-druggists in Preepont close ait 2- P.M. The telephone is 9-5333. ' ' _ Girl Scouts Rally To Be Held Sunday The 4Dth anniversary rally for Girl Scouts In the South Nassau Council, which had to be postponed last. Sunday because of inclement weather, will be carried out Sunday from 4 to 6 o'clock in the Freeport Municipal Stadium. The program •will, be as .originally planned. Mrs. Arthur Cook, leader of Troop 207, of Freeport, former!? director of-women's programs (for the Ctolum-the-^ FreeiVort-Com-4-bia Broadcastin^System 4n-,6leye-munity Council will be held Mon-day night^;a/t;. 8:30 bictock' In the Court Room of tihe Municipal Bulldr ing. '-;r^7-;;:Tt.':.: .':••;.-:•. •' f Mrs. Hanson Blatz of member of the 'Baldwin/'-League of Women-Votere, -will tell the mem- ___bero about the yoirth. project BJXHI=. fiored ,fc|y that organization for Bald-win. , • ; land, will be in charge. Mrs. John Malarick end Mrs. Lou-is Treuman, program chairman for the Freeport Town Committee, will direct Freeport's pantomime, Home-making. It -will be based on the var-ious badges which can be .earned in'the foomemaMng field In scoait-r Ing, Ije.' hostess/ cook, nutrition, child care, housekeeper, sewing; etc. Athena President Gets Corsage - — • y—T- \ Mrs. Howard D. Mcpougall (right), chairman of the Athena Club luncheon:given in the Swan CluV. Glenwbofl Landing. Monday after-noon, pins corsag^ on the president, Mrs. Gerald I*. Drach. ': •" •.,''•- • / » - _ . . . .;•- - ' —Jerry BagateHe Kioto Viebrock Cites Need For Light Industry Village Trustee Speaks . To Southwest Civics; Would Relax Zoning Village Trustee Cord Viebrock ad- . dressed the members of the South-west Civic Association "at their monthly meeting "Wednesday, night In the-cafeteria of the Archer Street School.- He considered principally T-he need of zoning the Bennlnffton ParjHarea^foT_Llight- industry, and pointed out that'~to attract plants to Fieeport it -would^ be-necessary to relax some of ^restrictions prevail-ing a-t present; These j^elafe_t6"lyuiia- Eg Iinefl_re<iuhing" a considerable setback froni the sidewalk, fhe re-quiring of spaces between building and limiting the percentage of a plot which may be occupied by the plant. When a perspective buyer finds he must pay a high price for prop-erty and then can use a com-paratively small (portion of the area for his .plant, he is apt to seek a site elsewhere, it was indicated. jMr. Viebrock distributed maps of-the ^central portion of Ereeport and pointed out that iBennington Park occupies a considerably part of the area, which also is within close walking distance of all the mid-town section. Add to 'this are the railroad- tracks. At .present, Mr, Viebrock said, tax collections In the area- are.comparatively-low-be-- cause 'of the low assessed valuation of (residential property. . ; , ."When the slum clearanoe^hous-inpr program permits many ,* of these buildings can be replaced, by light industrial and ,: business ^ tmUdtngB-multiplying the tax .return to .the .village from three to'ten.times, the . (Continued on • Page '•• 4) • / - : " ' . ' ' • ' ' '=' - -:' ' • . " - : • ' . 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Object Description
Rating | |
Title | 1952-05-22 |
Subject | Newspaper |
Description | This is a newspaper distributed locally within Freeport and Baldwin, Long Island, New York |
Creator | Linda Toscano |
Publisher | L & M Publications, P.O. Box 312, 30 South Ocean Avenue, Suite 204, Freeport, New York 11520. |
Contributors | Nicolas Toscano, Michele Swersey, Joan Delaney. |
Date | 2010 |
Type | Periodical |
Format | |
Source | Freeport memorial Library |
Language | English |
Coverage | United States |
Rights | Newspapers are Public Domain before 1 March 1989; and Digital Rights after that date transferred to Freeport Memorial Library by L & M Publications. |
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The 41-year-old Irishman has masterminded Quins' scintillating start to a campaign that has yielded 12 successive victories in three different competitions.
They are top of the Aviva Premiership by four points, and Saturday's 28-9 Heineken Cup victory over Gloucester at Kingsholm kept Quins on course for a quarter-final place from Pool Six.
Northampton rugby director Jim Mallinder is the bookmakers' England favourite among Premiership contenders, but O'Shea - who previously headed up the Rugby Football Union's academy system - has many admirers.
Johnson quit three days ago on the back of England's dismal World Cup campaign in New Zealand when they made a quarter-final exit to France and were riddled by off-field problems.
O'Shea has no intention, though, of departing a club he has moulded into genuine domestic and European title challengers.
"My job is at Quins, full stop," he said.
"Players like Chris Robshaw and George Robson have committed to 2015, and I want to commit to them.
"We feel we are the start of a journey, not even midway through it.
"I will get a huge amount of pleasure if we are successful and we see a lot of guys go on to represent England.
"I want to be at Harlequins, and I am going to be at Harlequins."
While Quins march on towards potentially pivotal Pool Six home and away encounters against four-time European champions Toulouse next month, Gloucester face making an early exit following two defeats in a row.
First-half tries by full-back Mike Brown and centre Matt Hopper put Quins in charge, but once again it was goalkicker Nick Evans who underpinned victory as he booted three penalties and two conversions.
Quins' England number eight Nick Easter completed an emphatic away success when he touched down eight minutes from time, inflicting a heaviest Heineken home defeat on Gloucester since Stade Francais demolished them 27-0 at Kingsholm six years ago.
Gloucester created their fair share of opportunities in attack - Mike Tindall delivered another strong display following his £25,000 Rugby Football Union fine and being axed from the national squad - yet only had three Freddie Burns penalties to show for it.
And they are now left on the edge of pool stage elimination for a fifth time in their last six European campaigns.
O'Shea added: "I am delighted with that. This is one of the hardest places to come and get a result.
"We looked threatening when we had the ball, and we took our chances. We were clinical. Hats off to the boys.
"We were magnificent in defence. There is an energy among the players, and we have a hell of a lot of heart. Everyone gave everything out there."
Gloucester head coach Bryan Redpath offered no excuses after a defeat that he admitted leaves his team with little realistic hope of reaching the quarter-finals.
"You need a minimum four or five wins in the group stage," Redpath said. "It means we are going to struggle.
"We created enough opportunities, but we didn't take any of them. We didn't look after the ball or the contact area well enough.
"You need to have composure in games like that. If you create, but you don't take, then you are going to get punished.
"We knew it was going to be a tough game and we knew we had to perform, but we didn't. We have got to accept it and deal with it."
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MEXICO CITY, May 24 (Reuters) - Foreign investors nearly halved their investment in Mexican stocks and bonds in the first quarter compared to the same period last year, central bank data showed on Friday, scaling back from record heights. ...
Mexican peso falls to lowest level since mid-March
MEXICO CITY, May 24 (Reuters) - Mexico's peso fell sharply on Friday to its lowest level since mid-March. The peso dropped 1.28 percent to trade at 12.549 pesos per ...
EMERGING MARKETS-Latam FX drops as data adds to fear of Fed ...
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The Out-of-Towners
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(The following statement was released by the rating agency) MONTERREY/NEW YORK, May 24 (Fitch) Fitch Ratings has affirmed the ratings of Digicel Group Limited (DGL) and its subsidiaries Digicel Limited (DL) and Digicel International Finance ...
EMERGING MARKETS-Brazil stocks flat as OGX offsets Vale
* Concerns over Chinese economic growth, Fed stimulus weigh * Brazil Bovespa little changed, Mexico IPC falls 0.65 pct By Asher Levine SAO PAULO, May 24 (Reuters) - Brazilian stocks were little changed on Friday as concerns over weak economic growth in China weighed on shares of mining firm Vale, offsetting a gain in oil producer OGX. Mexico's IPC index edged towards its lowest closing level ...
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RPT-Fitch Affirms OHL BB- Outlook Stable
Fitch Ratings has affirmed Obrascon Huarte Lain's (OHL) Long-term Issuer Default (IDR) and senior unsecured ratings at 'BB-'. The Short-term IDR is affirmed at 'B' and Outlook ...
Mexican stocks fall more than 1 percent on Fed worries
MEXICO CITY | Fri May 24, 2013 10:07am EDT MEXICO CITY May 24 (Reuters) - Mexico's IPC stock index fell more than 1 percent on Friday on continued worries about a winding down of the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank's bond-buying program. The index fell 1.05 percent to 40,091.41 points, with telecoms giant America Movil and bottler Femsa ...
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We must define the nature and scope of this struggle, or else it will define us. Neither I, nor any President can promise the total defeat of terror. What we must do is dismantle networks that pose a direct danger.
Barack Obama
The U.S. president was speaking on his administration's counter terrorism policy.
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Mexico Star
Mexico Star – Independent Online News ServiceNewspapers the world over strive to provide readers with the ultimate news coverage.
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A Saab is always cool
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This is a post inspired by the thread "Troops : Quality v Quantity" . In this discussion, I'll like to see what mechanism (abstraction) should be put into the Tactical Combat (TC); and I'll assume few things first:
1. The Dragon does not use its Breath weapon. My focus is just the basic Melee combat here2. TC is done in a grid based map (regardless it is RT or not), as it has been shown in screenshot. All 50 or 500 swordsmen are located in the same tileFor the purpose of illustration, let me dissect the fight in to 1 minute segment (or 1 turn in TBS-speak). In the 1st minute of the fight, how many swords will be able to 'touch' the Dragon's carapace? 50? Not likely. 500? Not bloody likely. Despite the Gigantic size of a dragon, there is only so much space for the swordsmen to get close within their swords' reach. In this same minute, how many swordsmen will be killed by the dragon's bite and claws? Probably 10, give or take.My point here is, Weapon Reach and the Size difference between the combatants matter in the debate of "Quality vs. Quantity". There should be a calculation of "how many attacks that is possible from each side" per turn. This figure will change dramatically, if you replace the example above with Spearman (longer weapon reach = more contact) and the (smaller sized = less contact) Mongol Calvary.From the perspective of the Swordsmen, the amount of damage they can inflict to the Dragon equals to:"The number of attack attempts possible in 1 minute" * "Average damage of their swords"For the sake of illustration, let me assume in this case the math is 20 * 10 = 200 Damage. And please note this number is the same, regardless of whether you are sending 50 or 500 swordsmen to the dragon, because the area of contact remains constant. The remaining 30 or 480 swordsmen cannot move closer in that 1 minute, it is too crowded to reach.Unfortunately for the swordsmen, their attack is proved to be useless. None of their bronze sword can penetrate the Dragon carapace. Instead of the 200 Damage they hoped for, the dragon remains unscratched and 10 of its fellow swordsmen died in the 1st turn. Tragedy, tragedy…So, the 2nd turn comes. What will the swordsmen do? Now knowing their attack is totally worthless, their morale drops to 0 & they will flee regardless of what their hero/sovereign demands them (unless they are then ordered to attack something else). In a different scenario, if they are lucky enough to be equipped with a magical sword, they found that they have instead inflicted 200HP of damage to the dragon; their Morale will never drop to 0. They will continue the fight in the 2nd turn. So in the 2nd turn, is there advantage to send 500 magical swordsmen instead of 50 magical swordsmen, even both groups can only inflict 200HP damage per turn? Well, the 500 swordsmen will definitely the advantage. If the dragon is not killed in the next 4 turns, none of the 50 swordsmen survive. At the rate of 200HP per turn, the 500 swordsmen can inflict 200*50 worth of damage to the dragon, the beast must die within 50 turns. The 500 magical swordsmen will be victorious.
My point now is, Morale mechanism is important to high Quality units (Dragon) will not overwhelmed by Too Low quality units in huge quantity (500 non-magical swordsmen). The judge on whether your opponent is of "too Low" quality to bother with is to see if they can inflict meaningful damage last turn. The evaluation of Morale on each side should factor in the rate of inflicting damage and how many units (or %) has been killed in the group.
To recap, I would like to include "Weapon Reach", "Unit Size" in all units' stat, because it allows the calculation of "The number of attack attempts possible in 1 minute" between to combating parties. Include the Morale mechanism to make sure High Quality never lost to really low quality units in huge quantity.You might ask why the Dragon can kill 10 swordsmen in 1 turn. I don't have the best answer now, but Larger sized unit probably should be allow to multiply their normal # of attacks per turn when fighting smaller foes?So far so good, the only thing I don't like here is.. I want short TC that lasts no more than 12 minutes. In the example of 500 swordsmen, they need 50 turns kill the dragon if the dragon still stubbornly refuses to roast them…. Haha
How would the million archers kill the dragon? It would depend on whether they can penetrate the dragon's armor. If they can't. They can't.
While the battle system in Elemental is still something to be fully fleshed out, I'm of the opinion that when a unit rolls their attack and defense that the minimum should always be say 10% of their max value. I.e. if the dragon's armor is 50 then even if he rolls a 1, he's still going to get 5 and if the max of the archer's attack is say 4, then he will never be able to damage the dragon.
There are creatures in this game that will simply be unbeatable by any number of mundane peasantry armies.
A million grasshoppers could suffocate you
But that sounds good to me. I'm all for dragons being immune to some peasant rabble, etc. The only thing I'd want is to make sure that good units would still be able to do minor damage to a dragon. A regular division of archers - not even a scratch. But large numbers of decently well-trained, well-equipped and fairly experienced archers should be able to do some damage. Uber units (like elite Bear Cavalry of Doom) shouldn't be the only ones capable of doing any damage to other even more uber units (like dragons).
Alternatively, you could make it so that it really does take truly elite units to start doing damage to a dragon. But once some damage has been done, it gets somewhat easier to hurt it further. A weak archer with a bad bow and flimsy arrows might not be able to scratch a dragon's tongue, but if the dragon's got an exposed wound he can always get lucky and land his arrow right inside it. So to hurt a dragon via conventional (non-magical) means, you'd need to send in your elite troops; but as they deal more and more damage, less powerful units can start doing minor amounts of damage.
Have you ever been bitten by a grasshopper? I'm a gardener, so I know that when they do bite they can hurt Even a single lucky grasshopper can bite you in the eye. If 1,000,000 spears are thrust at a dragon, are we to assume that not a single one ever hits the dragon in the eye, strikes a molting scale, jabs it in the throat as it rakes soldiers into its jaws, or jabs it where its tallons meet its scales (thus opening up a wound and, hence a larger vulnerability)? But this is beside the point, and like I mentioned earlier, the issue becomes mired in people's personal resolve with how uuber they want dragons to be. I would appreciate it if at least 1 person in this thread would address my point on the grounds of what would make meaningful game mechanics rather than what gratifies their intuition, anyway.
Comparing the strongest unit in the game to the weakest is really beside the issue of my concern. The important thing to consider is the full continuum of unit strengths from weakest to strongest and deciding what part of the spectrum can hurt what. If less trained, less equipped soldiers are trounced too easily, players are forced, in order to be effective, to adopt a linear strategy of Build the Best Units and Only the Best Units as they become available. We have seen this the strategy of the day in many, many strategy games (as is the case in MoM).
By allowing even the weakest unit to have a chance (the key word is chance here, and that chance can be very small) it keeps other strategic options revolving around quantity, rather than quality, much broader. Programming this into the combat scheme wouldn't be hard.
Here's a hypothetical scenario based on a hypothetical combat system. Let's say, for instance, that a mighty Groglock (completely made up monster) has 20 defense rating, and a poorly trained archer has 5. The archer must exceed 20 defense to do any damage. When an archer rolls, they have a 1 in 5 chance of getting a 5. If they succeed, they roll again, adding the second roll to the first. If they score another 5, they roll an additional time (and so forth.) Now, the actual chance of that archer hitting the Groglock would be 1 in 625, and that only makes a dent. An archer one shotting a Groglock might only happen once every 1,000 games. You would need, naturally, many many archers to bring him down it's likely that, during most typical games, it would make more sense for the player to have used the resources needed to make an army of archers to instead train elite knights to bring down the Groglock, but my point here is that the strategic options in the game are broader and more diverse if you allow players who play their cards right to use these kinds of strategies effectively.
To eliminate a meaningful strategy from the game on the grounds that "spears don't kill aircraft carriers in real life" (10 spears jammed into an engine turbine?) can only make the game smaller. If you have any criticism of the idea presented above, please address it on the grounds of meaningful game mechanics and not ancedote.
Can 10000 Fire Mage kill a Fire dragon?
For example, 10000 fully trained Fire mage should still be considered as "peasantry armies" to a Fire Dragon, because their fire spells is ineffective. But the same 10000 Fire Mage is NOT an "peasantry armies" when they are casting their high level Fireball spells to an Ice Dragon, because they can inflict meaningful damage, & in a meaningful rate.In the OP, I've tried to link Morale with meaningful damage. And here I'll try to demonstrate "meaningful rate", which I think it is also important to the smooth flow of tactical combat and determine what units are the "peasantry army" to the Dragon or any other units.Can 10000 peasants all equipped with "Sword of Dragon Slaying" kill a dragon? Well, although their swords can easily pierce the dragon armor, there is only 20 peasants managed to get close enough to jab the dragon in 1 turn (assuming frontal assault, ignoring formation issue). They managed to inflict a total of 20HP damage to a 5,000HP Dragon. Theoretically, It takes 250 turns to kill the dragon. They are NOT inflicting damage in any meaningful rate. Once the peasants are aware of that, their morale drop drastically and all 10000 peasants flee or refuse to attack the dragon afterwards. NO, their morale tank once they know even their attack cause damage, but their attack is NOT quick/effective enough. (However, if the Dragon was already injured before the battle & only has 40HP, their morale will instead raise & keep fighting)
Assuming 10 turns of tactical combat is the desired length of tactical combat, a minimum of 500HP damage (combined from all parties) per turn is meaningful rate of damage to the dragon, in the determination of troop morale. Without morale mechanism, do we want the 10000 peasants keep doing 20HP per turn?
Dragon is of the highest caliber unit. A standard mechanism is needed to determine what is the minimal caliber required to hurt higher caliber units. ATT & DEF is one way, but maybe Damage & Morale consideration is better. And there should not be any hardcoding and extremely flexible, as units can be extremely diverse in EWOM.
In D&D Second edition (and all the others too) there are many types of creatures that can only be hit with magically enchanted weapons. As Frogboy already stated, without the ability to actually hurt something it won't matter how many people are fighting it, if they can't hit it they can't hit it. I like this. I like this a Lot.
This is really going to force the player to think about what kinds of troops they are sending into battle.
Yea, I like the idea of super-powerful dragons, and the general rule of minimums to be 10% of max.
when I was talking about maneuvering units, I was primarily talking about army vs army
The (dragons being super powerful) plus elemental being Magic: Total War ... is such awesome news to me.
I would like to ask if we will see different ages of dragons (even though dragons are rare) ... like would it be more likely to recruit a fledgling dragon than an adult dragon, or if there is even an extreme quest to complete in order to acquire and raise your own dragon egg.
Thus begins the slide toward the Monolithic Army. This mechanic limits player thinking. If you are always encouraged to build the biggest and baddest units, why even bother with the small ones?
Becauase not everything is a dragon. Dragons are rare. You can't build them. You can't easily recruit them. You won't even see them in every game. They're an exceptional and badass case.
Elite units you can build will not outclass a peasant rabble the way a dragon does.
I mean, if a God showed up on the map, should your peasants be able to kill it?
Once again, using ancedotes to argue against legitimate game mechanics doesn't produce good game mechanics. Whether peasants could concievably kill God or spears can destroy an aircraft carrier is irrelevant when you are making a balanced game.
That's silly. So if a swordsman has a defense rating of 5, the archer would only have a 1/5 chance of even hitting it?
In a game where armies might stretch into the 10s of thousands of units, low probabilities cannot be ignored. If I have 5,000 archers, 1/625 chances of hitting the Groglock would mean 8 archers hitting the Groglock per volley. Statistically, about 1.5 archers per volley would roll a 25/20 per round. About 1 archer would roll a 30 in any 3 volleys, a 35 in 15 volleys, a 40 in 75 volleys, etc. Now, keep in mind that that is statistically speaking. We haven't been talking about how much relative damage each of these hits would be doing, but it takes a really, really small probability to result in a statistically vanishing chance for something to occur when dealing with numbers in the thousands. And I don't ever want to see some measly archer one-shot (or even do significant damage at all to) a Groglock - whether it's my archer and my enemy's Groglock or the other way around. RNG at its worst.
But Tridus's main point is valid. If there is the occasional creature if incredible power that can only be hurt by units of a certain caliber or higher, so long as said units are really occasional then I don't see it as a terrible balance problem. And as long as it doesn't take crazy super elite units to be able to touch them. I don't see a problem with the lowest of the low being unable to do anything at all vs. something like a dragon, as long as reasonably well trained/equipped units can, even if just a little.
I still like the idea I put forward before, though - the more damage a unit like a dragon has taken, the easier it becomes to damage (this process of weakening defenses should be ~slow and small, though). Therefore as your stronger troops do more and more harm, more of your weaker troops can start to join in, even if the contribution is still small.
Killing all of the Gods worshipers. Or one of the peasants have his (extremelly) lucky day (blessed be Avandra) and get Godsbane from Cyric and manage to stab the God a la Tasslehoff.
Btw, the Fire Mages could consume the whole oxygen around the dragon to suffocate him (he still needs to breathe, right?) as long as they managed somehow to limit his mobility (traps, terrain...) and keep the flames long enough (being 10k, that's the easy part compared to the previously mentioned one).
Hey now, no mixing Dragonlance with Forgotten Realms
First off, I explicitly stated that my battle system post was hypothetical to illustrate a contest between a lowbie unit and a high end unit. I was positing a possible combat system, but made a crude version to illustrate combat outcome. You are absolutly correct that 5000 archers might match up to a Groglock, and that's precisely what I want to see for game balance reasons. I want to see 5000 archers be able to make a dent in a Groglock and, given enough archers, even kill it. It's not unknown that lowly defenders have killed great beasts in fantasy--- as a matter of fact, it's a staple of fantasy (think of the Hobbit and the defenders of Esgaroth). We can come up with ancedotes all day long about grasshoppers, aircraft carriers, and counters to those ancedotes. Personally, I don't see why the awe of a terrible and massive creature is reduced just because 5,000 archers can pitifully witle away at it (while the beast vanquishes scores of them with its breath weapon and rakes them into the air with its claws). But as I mentioned before, this is beside the point of game balance. I want someone to respond to this specific question:
"How does allowing low end units the chance of damaging a high end unit damage the balance of the game?"
I still haven't recieved an answer to this question beyond a response that distills down to, "Because it's uncool."
Now, this question should be stipulated by the fact that high end units should still grant vast and priceless strategic rewards. In otherwords, although this is a simplification, X resources worth of dragon added to a large army should be a vastly better than a purchase of archers with that same X resources. However, if I'm playing a game and my strategy has yielded a lot of extra citizens and a lot of extra food to support them, I want there to be a legitimate strategy to use them in a productive way without that strategy being dwarfed by a low hit cap ceiling, even in the late game.
If you want to make a balanced game, you don't make it based on what does and doesn't offend your sensibilities about dragons and Groglocks. Like I've said before, trivializing masses of lowbie soldiers by neutering them against high end enemies reduces strategic options and forces other options. If someone has an army of oober units and an opponent has spent the same number of resources on any army of lowbies, you can expect that army of lowbies to essentially never stand and fight. Allow the lowbies to do some damage (abliet, still not be as effective as their opposing army) and retreat becomes an option, rather than a mandate. And all other arguments aside, which battle would you sit up in your chair more? A battle with an impervious high end unit where you might as well click autoresolve? Or a battle you might actually have to manage?
Demiansky, rgds to your bolded question in Reply37, Frogboy has already answered it in Reply#23. Frogboy's Reply#23
all he is saying is that defense will have a 10% minimum (maybe attack too?) ... so that if a unit is out-classed in stats on the scale of 10:1, then scratches will be impossible. I think, maybe a critical hit could do some effectiveness (two max rolls in a row, or something) as in 1 damage, but no more than that. And thats talking critical hits.
One thing to keep in mind though ... is that if its truly an ancient dragon, elephant/rhino hide will be the LEAST of your worries, think closer to 10x that, plus a general magical aura.
Now, those types of units are EXTREMELY RARE.
If I were to, say, make a dragon-heavy mod with lots of lesser drakes, wyverns, more tribes of lizardpeople, ect, ONLY the most rare ancients will have such an advantage, and others will be able to be easily defeated by large enough numbers ... but will of course have the power of the lizard on their side
I believe there should be a new dragon, Greenhouse Effect dragon will breath out CO2 breathe, suffocating everyone around it!
Yeah, that's totally cool. I guess I'm just putting emphasis on chance-to-hit-ceilings. I have no problem with, say, the top 3 units in the game being invulnerable to the bottom 3 weakness. The key though is that you don't have too many units that have impunity, otherwise you end up with strategic loopholes, abundant blindspots, and predictable, monolithic armies of powerful units. After all, if there are too many units that can take no damage from low to low-mid range units, no one will ever develop strategies around building the weak units and there will BE no lackeys for your mightier units to wade through during an Epic battle (unless the AI is unintelligent or seeks to please the player by building them anyway).
I have no problem with this and actually really like it (so long as those critters are rare). However, I still think that those peasant armies should have a role against those critters even if it's just harrassing and annoying them or making them slog through them all. A couple of hundred grasshoppers (even if they can't bite) that for some reason decided to swarm me could easily drive me away from an area or make an opening for a real opponent to get easy shots at me. Let me put it this way: If I attack a dragon with 50 Elite Archers with Diamond Tipped, Angel Feathered, Acid Dripping arrows of Dragon Slaying arrows I expect them to die a swift death after dealing a bit of damage. They'll live longer if they spread out to make the dragon hunt them down individually, but they'll have a harder time hitting the dragon because it will be more mobile. If I attack that dragon with those archers defended by 500 pikemen as dragon fodder I expect to be able to take it down just because it has to slog through my pikemen to get to them and is less mobile as it does so (we'll call it a giant land wyrm so we can ignore the flight & breath weapon). I guess my point is that people should not feel bad about recruiting cannon (or dragon) fodder and using it as such. It is a valid and effective defensive strategy, althought it isn't quite a useful offensively.
For one, Smaug wasn't defeated by a horde of lowly defenders, he was defeated by Bard, a singular archer who was literally told of a missing scale in Smaug's armor by a little birdy. Sure, in this situation a horde of enough archers could get lucky and land an arrow in said weak spot, but maybe dragons in Elemental don't have such imperfections. And I can guarantee you that Glaurung, or Ancalagon the Black, for example, would never have been destroyed by even never-ended hordes of crappy little archers.
And I have nothing against 5000 archers being able to make a dent in a Groglock, so long as said archers are powerful enough to actually scatch it in the first place. But under no circumstances should any one of those archers ever do more than a menial amount of damage do said Groglock.
Also, I think Brad's method of determining whether or not a creature can be hurt by another is pretty good. If your Groglock has a defense score of 20, then he will roll between a 2 and a 20 (but never a 1). Therefore, any creature with an attack rating of at least a 2 will have a chance to hit. A creature with 2 ATK then would have a ~1/40 chance of hitting (could vary depending on how rolls are weighted etc) and doing minor damage. A unit with 1 ATK would have no effect. The result is that even if you have a unit with crazy high defense - to take Brad's example again, say 50 DEF for a dragon... It wouldn't take another uber powerful unit to be able to hurt it. It would just take decent units. Your crappy conscripted archers with 4 ATK will have no effect, but your slightly better-trained archers equipped with bows with actual tension, with 6 ATK would. And this mechanic probably wouldn't even be evident at all between mundane troops - the weakest regular troops would still probably be able to swamp the strongest regular troops.
Sounds epic!
Ever seen a Spearman defeat a Tank in Civ? That is your answer. Completely obsolete, underpowered units should not be able to defeat overwhelmingly superior units due to the RNG. A game that based on randomness is not fun, it's random. You start a fight and pray something unpredictably bizzare doesn't happen to screw you over.
A system like you propose carries the same RNG risk. Sheer randomness is bad for a serious strategy game, because fights should be determined by tactics and army compositions and not by the RNG.
Bard also had the Black Arrow which he used to hit that target, which the normal archers didn't have. The odds of a mundane archer with mundane arrows hitting the mark and burying it deep enough to deliver a fatal strike? Good luck.
yea, RNG shouldn't be an all-powerful god, enabling that one peasant to kill that one Sovereign or Dragon during that world-wide tournament game. Or something.
Why do people keep bringing up spearmen versus tanks? I can envision a ton of actual scenarios in which a man with a spear can take out a tank. ..
Oi, once again, I don't think we're properly understanding what I mean by randomness (I'm sorry if I sound rude, but I'm a biologist and have to confront people's statements about biotechnology on a regular basis based upon gut feelings and prejudices rather than technical discourse, so my patience is already a bit exhausted.) I'm not suggesting that there should be randomness in the game that swings so violently that nothing is predictable. Not even close. As a matter of fact, let's remove the word "random" entirely since it seems to be a loaded pejorative that sets a lot of people off. Let's instead call it "range of probability." If you are aware that your soldiers have an X chance of hitting a Groglock, and that 1 out of those thousand will end up hitting it per volley, there is really very little randomness at all, but instead an analysis of the range of probability with which you are acting. I am in no stretch of the imagination suggesting that every other battle, your mighty creatures will be insta killed by the lucky shot of a peasant.
I am proposing an exponentially diminishing, but potentially infinite ceiling for hit probability which does leave the possibility open that, at some point in the billions of games of elemental that will be played that a peasant will manage to drop a mighty end game monster in one shot. But seriously guys. one end game monster being single handedly slain in the history of elemental isn't game breaking. Not even close. The true effect that you'll see a billion times more frequently is that units will always have utility, even if it rapidly diminishes in the face of stronger opponents. This will reduce the supremacy of the classic mad-rush-for-endgame-units strategy that can make games of this type bland much quicker and it will produce a plethora of other viable strategies with which to pursue in the game. It remedies way, way more problems than it causes (even though it would seem to offend plenty of wishes for oober doober monsters, despite having almost exclusively a psychology rather than literal effect on their performance or strategic value).
And I'm still waiting for an answer to my bolded question beyond authoratative, but unsubstantiated, declarations of "it just doesn't seem right to me".
Really? I can't. Not unless the spearman is carrying explosives with him...


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ICE CUBE: Kevin James Goes Boom at the Prince
Why James brought his Boom to town when it was filmed in Boston and other cities throughout Massachusetts was simple.
ICE CUBE: Kevin James Goes Boom at the Prince
On Tuesday night I had two delicious options — the tony family and friends dinner at still-unopened Red Owl Tavern at Hotel Monaco or hanging with Kevin James as he premiered his new mixed martial arts/teaching comedy Here Comes the Boom at the Prince Theater.
My dad St. Alfonso is a big Kevin James fan and wanted to meet him.
Dinner had to wait.
Why James brought his Boom to town when it was filmed in Boston and other cities throughout Massachusetts was simple. "Philly supported me big time when I was in standup," says James of his comedy career up-to-and-including a stop here for his road show with Vince Vaughn to promote The Dilemma. It doesn't hurt that Philly's blue collar roots is in tune with James' own, to say nothing of his characters from The King of Queens, Zookeeper, Grown Ups and Paul Blart: Mall Cop. Yes even this week's number one film Hotel Transylvania and the character James voices, "Frankenstein" is the ultimate everyman. "Everyman is the perfect word. I am that guy."
Like Boom's high school biology teacher who becomes mixed martial arts fighter to raise money to keep the school's music program from being axed, James — wearing a black Adidas track suit and a bandage around his thumb — is all about being inspired by teachers. "I had teachers who taught me the meaning of diligence. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if it wasn't for a teacher. "It was during a public speaking class where I panicked that I learned to love stand up. I got laughs. That was addictive."
Ask if he played a better teacher in Boom than Tony Danza did in real life and James laughs. "Aw, I don't know about that. Tony did a good job."
After he left me (and my dad, who is still beaming about the meeting), James went up on the Prince's stage where was greeted by the Temple University marching band paying Neil Diamond's "Holly Holy" (his character's theme song in Boom), Sharon Pinkenson and Tony Luke Jr.
James thanked the audience for coming, told them to enjoy the film, then said "sorry I got fat again. I look good in the movie though."
He did, come to think of it
Here Comes the Boom opens Fri., Oct. 12.
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