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Biden-Ryan Vice Presidential Debate: Who Won?
Vice President candidates Joe Biden and Paul Ryan squared off in the VP debate on Thursday, Oct. 11, a week after presidential candidates Barack Obama and Mitt Romney had their first debate. Here's how Massachusetts Republicans and Democrats reacted.
Massachusetts Democrats were more enthusiastic about Joe Biden's vice presidential debate performance than Bay State Republicans were about Paul Ryan's performance: that's the major finding of the Red and Blue Commonwealth flash polls sent out to local politicos immediately after the debate ended on Thursday night.
Biden and Ryan faced off on Thursday, Oct. 11 at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, with ABC News' Martha Raddatz moderating the debate that covered both domestic and foreign policy.
Of the 14 local influential Democrats who took the survey, 12 of them (85.7 percent) voted that Biden won by a large margin, with one voting that the current vice president won by a slim margin and one voting "neutral."
Meanwhile, of the 25 local influential Republicans who took the survey, seven of them (28 percent) voted that Ryan won by a large margin, with 13 (52 percent) voting that the congressman won by a slim margin. Five Republicans voted "neutral."
That's a switch from the presidential debate on Oct. 3, when in similar flash polls by Patch, local Democrats were less enthusiastic about President Barack Obama's performance and local Republicans were more enthusiastic about Gov. Mitt Romney's performance.
Asked who would be the consensus "winner" as declared by the national media, Democrats were unanimous in voting that Biden would be declared the winner, with 10 voting it'd be by a wide margin and four voting it'd be by a slim margin.
Republicans were almost evenly divided on who the national media would declare the consensus winner: seven voted it'd be Ryan by a slim margin, seven voted it'd be Biden by slim margin, seven voted "neutral" and four voted it'd be Biden by a wide margin.
What Moment Stood Out?
Asked for a moment that will stand out in the minds of conservatives in Massachusetts, many of the local Republicans who took the flash poll took issue with Biden's demeanor and behavior during the debate, during which the vice president laughed and smiled during some of Ryan's answers. Several characterized his behavior as "disrespectful" and "rude."
"Biden was incredibly rude and condescending throughout the debate," wrote one Republican respondent. "His demeanor—the smirking and eye rolling—was offensive."
Others focused on Ryan's behavior in contrast to Biden's, which Republicans characterized as "cool and collected," "composure" and "honest, sincere."
Democratic respondents focused on the debate's exchanges on the economy and taxes when asked for a moment that will stand out in the minds of liberals and progressives in Massachusetts. Some chose Biden raising Romney's "47 percent" comment caught on tape, while others focused on Biden's exchange over the economy and taxes, saying "still no specifics" and "the R's math does not add up."
Two people chose Biden's line, "Now you're Jack Kennedy?" in response to Ryan mentioning tax cuts passed under John F. Kennedy.
A few Democratic respondents expressed concern that Biden's "laughter" and "arrogance" would stand out in the mind of Massachusetts' swing voters, but others characterized the vice president's demeanor as aggressive: "Joe Biden calling out Paul Ryan's malarkey" and "Joe putting Ryan on the defensive" were two respondent's comments.
Other Democrats focused on economic issues, from the "47 percent" comment to Romney and Ryan's tax plan.
Most Republican respondents stuck with Biden's "boorish and bizarre" behavior, as one respondent put it, when asked what moment would stand out for Bay State swing voters.
"Paul Ryan's comments on Romney's bipartisianship," one Republican respondent wrote. "Also, no matter who you were, Biden's smirking was something you couldn't ignore. I don't think anybody liked it."
Two Republicans also focused on Ryan's statements regarding Social Security and Medicare.
Democrats Bullish on Biden's Effect on Mass. Votes, Republicans Lukewarm on Ryan's Effect
Most of the local Democrats surveyed said Biden's performance would increase the number of votes Obama gets in Massachusetts, with nine strongly agreeing it would increase Obama's Bay State votes and four somewhat agreeing. One somewhat disagreed Biden helped bolster Obama's Massachusetts vote totals.
Republicans were somewhat split when asked if Ryan's performance would increase the number of votes Romney gets in Massachusetts. Two strongly agreed it would and 11 somewhat agreed, while eight were neutral, three somewhat disagreed and one strongly disagreed.
In closing opinions, Democrats gave favorable reviews to Biden's performance, saying he spoke with "passion and caring," that he "trounced" Ryan and that he "referred more to fact than did Ryan." They also gave favorable reviews to the debate as whole, calling it "thoughtful," "heavy on policy and specifics" and lauding Raddatz's performance as moderator.
"Biden owned this debate. Paul Ryan came across as evasive, dogmatic and amateurish," one Democratic respondent wrote.
Some Republicans weren't as happy with Raddatz's job as moderator, saying she "allowed so much interruptions by Biden" and that her "raising abortion issue appeared to be a 'set-up.'"
Others praised Ryan, saying he did a "great job of sticking to the issues that matter the most," that he "gave a sincere, factual debate" and was "very gentleman-like and much better spoken than I anticipated."
One Republican respondent said that Biden "probably succeeded" in bolstering the Democratic base.
"But Biden's statements will not survive a thorough fact check," the respondent continued. "Ryan was polite, he made his points despite being interrupted, he said the things he needed to say to continue making the case that the Obama administration is a failure. Ryan was a bit too deferential, nevertheless he held his own and succeeded preventing the tide which is definitely moving in the Romney/Ryan direction."
Who do you think won the debate? Tell us in the comments below.
Red and Blue Commonwealth Surveys
Our surveys are not a scientific, random sample of any larger population, but rather an effort to listen to a group of influential local Republican activists, party leaders, candidates and elected officials in Massachusetts. All of these individuals have agreed to participate in Massachusetts' Patch's surveys, although not all responded to this story's questions.
Patch will be conducting Red Commonwealth and Blue Commonwealth surveys throughout the 2012 election season in hopes of determining the true sentiment of conservatives and liberals on the ground in Massachusetts. If you are an activist, party leader or elected official and would like to take part in periodic surveys that last just a few minutes, please contact Associate Regional Editor Daniel DeMaina at firstname.lastname@example.com.
1:26 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I think vice president Biden won the debate. And really spoke up for the middle class. And they are saying he kept interrupting and was rude. That's what I thought about Romney last week rude and like a bully
11:04 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I agree whomever was wearing the Biden costume won the event. Not sure I'd call it a debate as the only voice that could be heard was Biden's as he continued to ramble on like an old timer that is out of touch with reality, and seeking to teach high school students who are not aware of the facts; nor where to attain facts... So on the real question - Who was in the Biden costume? My guess "Jack Nicholson"!
Mark Ouellette
4:46 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
A comment was deleted for violating Patch's Terms of Use: www.patch.com/terms
Joe Veno
7:12 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Good job Mark. This should be done more often when people attack other people personally on Patch.
Joe Veno
5:53 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
It's great that Biden is so fed up, frustrated, feisty and willing to fight. I just wish he'd take that fight to reduce the deficit instead of belittle and bully his fellow countrymen. Never have I seen a VP be so belligerent and undignified in a national debate.
He acted like a petulant child. He acted like Ryan was taking all the time of the debate. Obama did the same tactic with Romney last week. But Joe "the fact is" Biden and Barack "the empty chair" Obama both had more speaking time than Romney and Ryan respectively. THAT'S THE FACT. Obama and Biden will soon be out of office. That's soon to be a fact
Ryan won the debate hands down !!!
Mark Ouellette
7:21 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Thanks, Joe. We try to keep an eye out for commenters who use swears (or asterisks to cover part of what obviously is a curse word) and so forth to keep the dialogue clean and moving forward.
peter lucci
8:34 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Great job of cutting and pasting Joe!!! There is no way you could write a paragragh without at least a half dozen mis-spelling and gramatical errors, especially when you used such big words. Hands down win for Ryan, ya okay.
Alan Leo
2:29 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Joe's 5:33 a.m. post was copied verbatim from an earlier facebook post by a Tea Party group, "Obama Must Go." How are the acoustics in that echo chamber?
6:52 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I would not want to sit down at a table with Joe Biden.
8:03 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I agree and I think we got a view into why there is gridlock in DC. He and Obama don't respect anyone with opposite opinion. If you don't agree with them they will ignore (Obama) or belittle and laugh and yell out (Biden). Remember the animosity didn't start when Obama was elected. It started after the Democrats basically told the Republicans that elections have consequence and they were solely in charge. They ignored any differing opinion or options and when the Republican's won in 2010 they wanted to continue that until they were parroted with "elections have consequence". Then they didn't like that and wanted to work together.
IMHO, Ryan and Romney seem to be more the adults at the table looking to solve problems by negotiation which is the only way this will get better.
8:26 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Well put Bob. Thought I'd add this: "National Democrats keep confusing strength with aggression and command with sarcasm. Even the latter didn't work for Mr. Biden. The things he said had the rhythm and smirk of sarcasm without the cutting substance."
10:50 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Nelly, re-read my post. They are not because the Chicago syndicate rammed through legislation without even a glance to Republican idea or opinion. Now Republican's have the hammer and they are using it. I hate it but I understand it in our government.
It is why Democrats have a hard time in understanding the Romney plan and it's lack of detail. It is a business plan that gives and outline, start point, end point and parameters for success. The details will be filled in in conference with Republican's and Democrats. If Obama or Biden ever ran anything they would be nodding their heads in agreement instead of looking on with blank expressions.
2:06 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Nelly, Obama in 2009 said "you don't raise taxes on anyone during a recession". Now to get elected he wants to raise taxes. And who is trying to kid whom?
Kevin N
2:51 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Bob - You can not have a revenue neutral 20% tax cut without raising taxes on someone. Under the Romney plan, taxes will go up for people who itemize their deductions. They can negotiate all they want but the only deduction they can eliminate that can cover that cut is the mortgage interest deduction. Ryan could not refute this when Biden confronted him with this fact. Romey wants to raise taxes on middle class families during a recession.
3:23 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Nelly, YES. Every time Obama says raise taxes on the wealthy 1% the liberals faint from the tingles up their legs! You people want "fairness" ignoring the FACT that the top 2% pay @40% of all taxes. Yea let's tax them more!
Christina Walsh
4:59 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has basically said that Romney can't cut taxes across the board by 20% with only eliminating corporate loopholes. The math doesn't add up. And I disagree with you about it being a simple business plan. I think you can compare Romney's approach to someone trying to pitch a business plan to investors which went something like this: We want you to invest lots of money in our business. "We plan to make widgets but we have no idea how we are going to do it. But you should trust us when we say there will be widgets."
9:05 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Not exactly. The Tax Policy Center is a left leaning think tank. Their study ignores the overall Romney plan of job creation. By rolling back some of the more onerous regulations that have strangled the economy and clarifying things like the Frank-Dodd definition of a good loan.
Also Romney never said "only corporate loopholes" nor did I. What he said was to close loopholes to corporations and the wealthy so there is no reduction in effective rate of tax. If he can increase the working American count by the 12 million he said, that would make up for all of this. The studies don't take this part up because they see them as separate un-related pieces.
Will it work? I don't know. Can we continue with the regulation and tax policy we have today? No!
Christina Walsh
6:12 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
The Tax Policy Center's website states that they are a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. So you are saying the Brooks Institution is left-leaning? Did you read the editorial in the Globe today about supply-side economics? I think there are real questions as to whether tax cuts grow the economy and whether the additional jobs needed to add tax revenue would actually materialize. The article looks at recent history. Also, they provide a list of the tax deductions that would add up to $480 billion which is what they would need to cover the tax cut. Most of them are deductions important to the middle class. If Romney/Ryan can make the tax cut revenue neutral without eliminating any of these deductions then he owes it to the American people to show us.
Vincent DiRico
9:40 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
The TPC, your GLOBB article and many comments here never take all the points of Mitt's plan into consideration:
Proper tax reform would:
- Improve economic performance by lowering marginal tax rates and making other growth-oriented changes;
- Enact a new tax code that raises the same amount of revenue as the previous tax code (revenue neutrality);
- Broaden the tax base to achieve revenue neutrality; and
- Maintain the current distribution of the tax burden across all income levels (distributional neutrality).
The Tax Policy Center (TPC) conducted an analysis of Governor Mitt Romney's tax reform plan. Governor Romney's plan follows all four requirements of tax reform. However, the report's authors conspicuously chose to ignore the requirement for distributional neutrality. The results of their analysis have garnered much attention because they erroneously claim that the plan would necessarily cut taxes for the rich, whom their report defines as those with incomes over $200,000, and raise taxes on middle-income and low-income taxpayers (all other taxpayers).
The authors' assumptions largely determine the report's conclusions. The carefully chosen assumptions underlying TPC's analysis misrepresent the outcome of Governor Romney's plan and misrepresent the results of pro-growth tax reform in general.
Vincent DiRico
11:00 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Also if you read the Simpson and Bowles report you will see that the feds forgo $1.1 trillion per year (first paragraph in section 2 Tax Reform), using the math the dems like the most that is $11 trillion over 10 years. $11 trillion is more than $5 trillion ("arithmetic") so it is doable. The dems just want to negotiate it now during the election. I think Mitt is correct to just lay out the outline and the principles he'll use. This is far more than Mr 0 has said about the next 4 years.
7:13 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I think Biden lost on his boorish behavior alone. It was hard for me to take his points seriously after all his smirking, laughing, interrupting, and using the word "Malarkey". Romney drew some criticism for his interrupting last week, but at least he seemed far more polite about it when compared to how Biden came off last night.
9:24 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Republicans seem to be coalescing around this response to last night's vice presidential debate: Joe Biden laughed and smiled. A lot. Oh, and he was rude.
But that's all they've got. Considering their other option was that Paul Ryan had his rear-end handed to him, it's probably the best they can do.
10:13 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Malarkey: Exaggerated or foolish talk, usually intended to deceive.
10:21 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
It's not just Republicans, it's Independents (like me). I thought Ryan held his own against a highly experienced Biden. He was articulate, knew his stuff, and didn't seem chained to scripted responses. Biden seemed equally as confident, but I expected this. A lot of people seemed to expect another Biden gaffe, but I didn't think he was going to give one. However, he didn't help himself at all by being so rude.
Overall, I think Ryan achieved his goal by not being a pushover against Biden and not screwing up (and being a bad headline the next day).
10:55 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Stiv, CNN and CNBC polls thought Ryan won because of Biden's antics. It isn't just Republican's.
11:19 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
ACtually the CNN poll was a draw, not too bad considering that the pollster admitted that the poll takers were weighted towards Republicans :
"The Thursday night debate between Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) resulted in a split-decision, according to a snap poll from CNN/ORC International.
Forty-eight percent of registered voters who watched the debate in Dansville, Ky. said that Ryan was the winner, while 44 said Biden ended up on top. That's within the poll's margin of error of 5 percentage points.
Keating Holland, polling director for CNN, urged caution to those trying to derive too much meaning from the poll, highlighting the limits of such a survey. Holland also acknowledged that the poll's sample of debate watchers included more Republicans than the average of recent CNN polls."
But Biden was the clear winner from a CBS snap poll of uncommitted voters and also from an NBC focus group after the debate. Uncommitted votes is really what is important because the others are not going to change their minds.
11:34 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Stiv - So 48% Ryan and 44% Biden is a draw to you? You stuck with the old math Biden and Obama are stuck with? Not able to figure out Romney/Ryan's tax plan?
12:06 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Bob, do you really not know what 'margin of erro'r is? Did you miss the comment from the Polling Director that stated that there were more Republicans than usual in the polling group? The CNN people themselves called it a draw. Are you now interpreting their own data for them?
1:12 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
XBox Live viewers also saw Biden as decisive winner in debate. Aslo Biden picked a smore truthful:
1:33 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Stiv - now I know where ABC/CBS/CNN are really getting their facts from..."XBOX LIVE" good points on that one! (Perhaps they are the 47%'ers that are still cheering for no more Bush & looking to have their rent paid by the working class...)
3:37 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Stiv, evidently someone does. 48% to 44% is a win for the 48%. To then say "but it is in the margin of error" doesn't change the data. Margin of error is for extrapolation to a larger "national" type audience. It has nothing to do with the poll numbers themselves. They asked 100 people who won. 48 said Ryan. 44 said Biden and 8 gave no answer or called it a draw. Margin of error says if we asked 1,000 people 480 (+-5%) would have said Ryan and 440 (+-5%) would have said Biden.
Make up the population of the poll also has no affect on the raw data unless your poll was trying to be representative of the general population. If so, CNN's poll master is an idiot. STILL doesn't change the outcome of the poll.
3:50 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Yoohoo Bob!
From the small print (font size 2) at the bottom of the quoted CNN snap poll:
"SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #1: This poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the debate. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public."
So CNN itself claims that the results are not representative of the broader public, as determined by their concurrent national polling. So CNN itself is admitting that the partisan gap they're seeing at the national level isn't reflected here.
What would be helpful would be to see how independents and undecided voters viewed the debate. And on that score? CNN blows it. Their poll memo does not include crosstabs.
Hence we have no broader context other than according to the Republican-heavy sample that watched the debate, those Republicans liked the Republican. If that's what they were going to give us, they might as well have saved their money. I could've told them that for free.
Thus, the CBS News poll of undecided voters (where Biden crushed Ryan) is decidedly more informative.
Christina Walsh
5:03 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The CBS poll had Biden at 50% and Ryan at 31%. And here is a quote from the CNN website about their poll:
"This poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the debate and by definition cannot be an indication of how the entire American public will react to Wednesday's debate in the coming days," cautions CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.
One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats, and 34% identifying themselves as independents.
"That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is more Republican than an average of recent CNN polls of all Americans," adds Holland.
9:16 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Christina and Stiv,
I understand what each says. My point is very simple. In the CNBC poll, Ryan won. In the CNN poll Ryan won. They BOTH had Ryan winning with more than just Republican votes. So Independents and/or Democrats also thought in each poll he won.
The CBS poll which I didn't cite, had Biden winning.
Stiv, I understand what CNN poll master said. I am not arguing that the poll or the CNBC poll represent the larger population. I simply said both polls said Ryan won PERIOD. No further inference from me. Again the RAW poll data is the votes actually cast in each and in each Ryan received the greater number of votes.
Eric J
7:29 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Once again Bidens ignorence comes into play. Malarkey "What is that all about" (Oh I forgot we are talking about Joe Biden.) No question Paul Ryan took the debate .
10:14 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
If so, I guess I must have been watching the wrong channel.
2:00 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
hey quasimodo - if you were watching anything other than Fox; indeed you are getting it wrong to begin with...
peter casolaro
7:48 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Biden was rude and ignorant. Where has the tough Irish attitude been for the last 3+ years. Neither candidate changed my mind about where this country has been and where it's heading.
Iron Mike
8:14 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I saw what I hoped will be the final nail in the cartel's coffin.
Biden – our National Village Idiot – started off smug, smirking, and rudely interrupting Ryan.
Then he blew his cool. May have revealed highly classified intelligence – may have signed death warrants for several people. Then he threw Hillary and her State Department staff under the bus - "We weren't told...."
By the end he was snarling and shouting at the moderator – Martha Raddatz. He was the perfect buffoon.
Ryan remained calm, collected, and focused throughout – VERY presidential. Gave a GREAT closing statement.
10:21 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
The only comments by Republicans are about Biden's demeanor, but nothing is said about the content of his data. A large part of Ryan's comment was, well..., just malarkey. If you don't think so, just go on factcheck.org, you might learn something.
2:13 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Quasimodo - you elude to 2 false claims here... A) that the sensable and non bias responses are republican (of which I am not) B) that there was and data provided by Biden last night... There were a few comments such as his ignorance to the ongoings in Lybia - but unfortunately factcheck does not have much on Bidens mental state. (But seriously - I do pray for all Americans lost not only in Lydia, but for all lost in the senseless violence stemming from the hatred of Americans by extremists.)
Craig Foster
8:15 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I rate the the debate a draw with a lean towards Biden.
The problem with Ryan yesterday he was all fluff and no real substance. Please tell me how you are going to cut taxes 20% across the board and make it revenue neutral. Don't just say the math works or this study says it. Tell me how you're going to do it. It's hard to believe something is true if you don't tell us how it is done.
Don't say your not going to spend more on defense when I can go to the Romney website and see he wants to spend 4% of GDP on defense which is about a $2Trillion increase over 10 years.
Iron Mike
8:21 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
So you essential angst is that you want to see the Republican budget in finite detail BEFORE November 6th? Will you be voting on the candidates – or their budget?
When have you EVER seen ANY of Obama's 'budgets' – in finite detail? Do you yet know the finite details of ObamaCare? [Wait til you try to sell your home.]
Romney/Ryan want to work out a budget – in cooperation and consultation – with Congress. How hard it THAT to understand?
Vincent DiRico
10:24 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
4 more years of Mr 0, 4 more budgets that even dems in the senate won't vote for, next stop 25 TRILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is that hard to believe? that is what you'll get with Mr 0, ...
10:33 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
This is why I believe Biden Lost, instead of smirking and laughing etc he should have grilled Ryan on their budget plan and let Ryan try to explain it rather than interrupting him.
And no..no one is asking for a finite detailed line item budget but it would be good to know how Romney and Ryan plan to get there. Just saying they are going to do X or Y is not good enough. Unless they ACTUALLY Cut defense, they are not going to be able to get there and I believe (I may be wrong) Romney and Ryan have said they are not going to touch defense.
Otherwise what is the difference between the two (Not that there is much difference between the two any way, on issues that really matter..both parties are the flip side of the same coin) their only argument is trust us vs them and frankly I don't trust either of them.
10:59 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Craig, Ryan tried a couple of times to lay out the plan and Biden jumped in each time. He didn't want Ryan giving the detail because they would have nothing to harp about. Romney spelled it out last week in his roll over Obama...
Cut tax rates, eliminate loop holes for the wealthy and expand the tax base by adding up to 12 million jobs.
11:05 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Smerls, so you think 4% of the US GDP is the make or break part? Military budget is the shiny object that get's the liberal base foaming at the mouth. $1.2 Trillion over 10 years of cuts is only $120 billion per year in an approximate $4 Trillion dollar budget. Like saying a cup of coffee a year at a coffee shop will crash your home budget.
That was the same as Biden's claim of the wealthy tax cut killing the budget "120,000 families getting $500 billion in cuts over 10 years..." $50 billion a year is what the government pays in TP!
John Froio
8:30 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
In my opinion, although somewhat biased, I think Biden won the debate. My favorite response from Biden was when Ryan tried to tout Romney's bi-partisan record in Massachusetts and Biden said: "If Romney did such a good job in Massachusetts why isn't he even contesting Massachusetts?"
11:07 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
John, the answer is simple... Massachusetts voted for Ted Kennedy. If Jack the Ripper ran as a D in Massachusetts he would win. And what Vincent said...
John Froio
1:10 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The Republicans had control of the Governors office from 1990 through 2006. A Democrat could not beat the Republicans until Mitt came back to Massachusetts. 6 out of our last 9 Governors were Republicans (Volpe, Sargent, Weld, Celluci, Swift and Romney) and one of the three Democrats, King, was a DINO and should have been a Republican
3:53 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Define control. In Massachusetts the single most powerful politician is and has been the Speaker of the House. With 86% of one party there is little the SotH can force in the state. Remember Romney vetoed over 400 items and over 400 were over ridden. I think it was 4 that were upheld.
Kerry Heally not Mitt lost the Governor race. The R's have all been RINO's. Romney is not conservative by most measures.
8:41 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
The scariest part of all: Biden is one seat away from the Presidency!! Can you imagine him in control, the crazy uncle Joe?.
He was rude and condescending, as is the whole current administration. Ryan can run circles around Biden.
Iron Mike
8:48 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
TO: Nelly Bly...
>> not hard to understand Mike -- it's hard to believe.
And I suppose you still 'believe' that Biden is a distinguished attorney, legislator, foreign policy expert, diplomat, FULLY qualified to lead the Free World on a moment's notice? Even after that embarrassing display of utter buffoonery?
Were you aware of the CLASSIFIED information he was broadcasting – without even thinking about the consequences?
Iron Mike
10:15 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
>> OK, I'll bite. What CLASSIFIED information did he leak
Without saying too much - he revealed way too much detailed knowledge about somebody's elses building project. Loose lips sink ships - and get our friends killed.
Frankly, the man is widely regarded in military and intel circles to be too stupid to be trusted. Another perfect example was when he couldn't contain himself and blurted out 'SEAL Team 6'...thereby painting a bulls-eye on their backs - and their families' backs. He is a joke, a buffoon, and an ongoing danger to America and our allies.
10:29 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
That's OK, Nelly, with Republicans, opinions trump facts.
9:01 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Ryan came across as one of those plastic guys with red ties and Brylcreem in his hair. He looked boyish and there was little hunmanity in his answers. He was steely cold, just throwing out talking points and acting wonky actuarial. Sometimes he just didn't know what he was talking about, especially on the foreign policy questions
On Medicare, on taxes, on abortion, on middle class opportunity and on foreign policy, Biden made Ryan look like he was trying out for the college debate team, and on substance, he pinned him to his and Mitt Romney's least popular policies.
Biden laughed during the debate but that's only because the Romney-Ryan plan is literally laughable on its face. Claiming you're going to make a $5 trillion tax cut without getting rid of vital middle class deductions like those for mortgage interest and the like doesn't pass the straight face test. It's comical. It violates basic principles of arithmetic. It's a joke.
Joe Biden wiped the floor with Paul Ryan at the debate.
Doria Alberg
9:04 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I feel Biden won the debate. In fact, I feel he tore up Ryan: although I will admit he was a bit over the top with the rudeness, he at least called the Republicans to task with their ever changing campaign promises, lies and numbers. Ryan never gave specifics. I feel that Mittens and crew don't have a clue about what they need to do in office. Look the simple fact is Obama inherited a mess from the Bush regime, it's going to take more then four years to clean up that mess. Mitt is just going to create more of a mess.
10:33 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Sometime, given the perpetual "malarkey" of the opposition's argument, a little rudeness is necessary.
Doria Alberg
9:07 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Also forgot to add this, Ryan was specifically asked by Raddatz what deductions will you eliminate? And he refused to answer. That's because he has no idea, which scares the hell out of me, because they could start eliminating anything!
Kevin N
9:33 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Doria - Biden called him out on his plan to eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. It is the only deduction large enough to cover the Romney 20% rate deduction to keep things revenue neutral. The Republicans stopped mentioning the mortgage deduction months ago because they know that they will lose elections everywhere if they continue to push this plan. The Romney/Ryan plan is to raise taxes on moderate income people who itemize their deductions and it was great to see Biden call them out. Ryan had no response.
9:37 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Doria, so you are telling me you like the plan the Obama administration has put forth to reduce our crushing deficit? Do you realize what this deficit is going to do to our kids? That's right - Obama has NO plan.
Ryan scores big time over the Obama/Biden disaster. Also, calling Mitt Romney Mittens just reduces your comment to childish temper tantrums. I
Iron Mike
9:39 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Which ones are you AFRAID of? Is your whole life constructed around a specific deduction?
Democrats who pretend to want to micro-manage the Republican budget - BEFORE they'll vote for the TICKET - are just blowing smoke screens.
For four painful years we've had a questionable/suspect pResident, and a JOKE as a Vice President. Our national debt rose by $6 TRILLION, the Muslim Brotherhood is set to rule the Islamic world - and the oil routes - Iran will have a bomb within months - and thanks to the BROADCASTING of secrets - nobody out there wants to work with us. Other countries DON'T TRUST Obama. Biden's secret-leaking last night is a PERFECT example of why they shouldn't.
So, you still want to micro-manage possible deductions - with the Levant ablaze?
10:51 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Personally, I believe he knows which ones, but he wont say, because they are the modest "loopholes" that most middle-class people use on their tax returns. In particular, the mortgage deductions, which, if cancelled, would also put a real break on the housing industry.
10:50 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I guess you like democracy only when it's convenient for you, otherwise dictatorship will do?
Ed E
10:50 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I think "Iron Mike" needs to relax here...also, check YOUR facts sir. Not even going to attempt to argue with him, but clearly Biden was the winner last night and the person who ANYONE is going to say won last night is the person they're voting for.
10:50 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
After that debate last night i fear for the safety of this country under Obama/Biden...they lied about the terrorist attack in Benghazi and Biden wants to sit there and say that we will KNOW when Iran has created a nuclear weapon we should be happy with that answer because we will KNOW..after 911 and the attacks in Benghazi that response is exactly the problem with this administrations Foreign Policies. The bigger problem is that the press has not made that big of a deal out of the lies and coverups the bias in the media is unbelievable there was more coverage regarding Romney's 47% comment than on the blatan terrorist attack on a US Embassy!!
10:57 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
I agree, why is the administration so silent on what happened 9/11/12? The massive failure of our Sec. of State Clinton really took me off guard. I gave up on the media years ago, their approval rate is on par with congress for a reason. But Up until then I had a lot of respect for Clinton, thought she' be a great contender in 2016. But, we were lied to and now they are trying to whitewash the whole "bump". Deplorable.
Iron Mike
11:24 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
BINGO!! You captured a KEY truth:
Per Biden - they DIDN'T know what was happening in Benghazi - even as the press was reporting the details...
BUT,..they want YOU TO BELIEVE...that somehow they know what's going on in Iran? Just proves they really DO think American voters are stupid.
Craig Foster
10:56 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Plain and simple - Romney and Ryan don't want to say what loopholes and deductions they will close because they know it would be the end of the campaign. If we found out the truth that the ONLY way their tax plan works is that you have to get rid of the Mortgage Interest Deduction, Get Rid of Charitable Deductions, Lower the Child Tax Credit.....he would lose plain and simple.
It is the same reason he team decided not to release his past taxes because they know the information in them is more damaging than not releasing them.
Basically the Romney-Ryan campaign thinks most voters are stupid and will by the stuff they are selling even without details.
Let me ask everyone a question:
If someone said to you I am going to make you 20% more money but wouldn't tell you how they were going to do it would you believe them?
Vincent DiRico
11:03 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
well then there is the problem, you do not understand the goal, it is not a 20% tax cut so no one should expect that, you should read about the principles he'll use and the real goals
12:13 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
It's more than semantics, but rather, like Joe would say, malarkey on the part of the Romney. It's a 20% reduction in taxes for everybody, but it's also supposed to be revenue-neutral and the way to reach this goal is to remove some deductions on the tax returns, which in turn will result in collecting more taxes from you and me. Did I miss something there? Its a basic fact of Nature that you cannot get something for nothing.
Joe L
12:36 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
quasimodo...I think you did miss something. Every time Biden said killing the mortgage deduction, Ryan reitterated they would only close loopholes and deductions for the wealthy. I believe the number he used was those making over $1 mil.
12:52 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Interesting response Craig F.
However there seems to be a gap in your analysis, including the points where the R-R proposals are working under a premise of voters having some intelligence and doing their homework on topics; not to mention listening & the ability to comprehend the points of discussion. As for the economy - it's not a simple 1:1 and unfortunately the equations are a bit more complex than simple Obama math. But at a big picture simple explanation to those whose lights have not gone on all the way let me say this. If you increase tax, you are pulling money out of the economic flow. If you reduce tax, you are allowing money to continue to flow. As the economy flows it grows... so in simple enough math for perhaps Obama to comprehend, (or perhaps not)
{Part 1 of 2 & this is a short response and you are wondering why the Romney-Ryan reply is not defined...}
12:52 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
{Part 2 of 2}
Let's say the economy needs $80 in "flow" to be stable & is currently at $100... (this is a theoretical point & could have been any $)... Now you are going to establish your tax % on the $100, if you tax over 20% you will not have a stable economy.
We are currently taxing at a rate of 50% in this perspective and this created a bottleneck in the economy. There is no stimulus that can positively impact this if you do not reduce the tax percentages...
This examples barely touches the surface of the actual complexity with the economy, but is just a perspective of the concept one needs to realize.
I am a lower middle class citizen and just paying in the first tier of federal taxes... there are people making just a bit less than I (pay no taxes come yearend) and it makes no sense... A) We need to implement a flat tax B) limit the economic "assistance" to those who are legitimately in need to food/shelter and education (and of course U.S. citizens only).
11:07 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
They both had good and bad moments, same as there are positives and negatives to each campaign. However, without a doubt the big talk today is how creepy and odd Bidens bizzare laughing and mannerisms were. They really did overshadow much of the talk, it was such a distraction.
Kevin N
11:13 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Vincent - Mitt's plan for individual taxes is below. This is from http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax. The first part of his plan is to make a 20% cut to all individual tax rates and then he adds a great benefit for low level investors and adds some huge breaks for the rich. Please explain why you believe a 20% tax cut is not his goal.
Individual Taxes
America's individual tax code applies relatively high marginal tax rates on a narrow tax base. Those high rates discourage work and entrepreneurship, as well as savings and investment. With 54 percent of private sector workers employed outside of corporations, individual rates also define the incentives for job-creating businesses. Lower marginal tax rates secure for all Americans the economic gains from tax reform.
•Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates
•Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
•Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains
•Eliminate the Death Tax
•Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
Vincent DiRico
11:53 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
you need to read more
If you listen you will hear Mitt say he intends to use principles like these on tax overhaul:
- work with congress
- not lower burden on upper income individuals
- relief to middle class (making us more competitive due to this being most small businesses)
- keep it deficit neutral
Joe L
11:40 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
So nothing in here says anything about mortgage deductions for people making less than $1 mil? This is what Ryan kept saying about closing loopholes and eliminating deductions for the wealthy.
On a separate note, I wish when Biden said I mean what I say and say what I mean Ryan would have said, 'like when you said you need an Indian accent to work in a convenient store?' But Joe & company are tolerant of other races, religions and view points.
Kevin N
11:48 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Joe - I really don't care about which candidates are tolerant of other races. I'm sure they have all made inappropriate comments in their lives.
The point Biden made was that it is impossible to have a revenue neutral 20% tax cut without eating into the mortgage interest deduction. Of course the Romney website does not say this because it would scare off too many voters.
Dave Gray
11:41 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Not for anything, but if someone said some of the things Ryan said to me, I'd laugh in his face too. What really troubles me is the choice we have - Romney/Ryan or Obama/Biden. Either way, we're doomed. If this is the best we can do, it's no wonder the rest of the world hates us and is laughing at us.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
11:43 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
Lower tax rates increase tax revenues. Kindly study the Laffer curve.
For a really scary thought imagine Biden with his hand on the actual tiller of progress as President . The man is one taco short of a Mexican special platter.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
12:19 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The Laffer curve. LOL. Coming from you, I am not surprised.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
12:38 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I've met Arthur Laffer and he does not question the validity of his law. To confirm a few points on the curve check out Europe.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
12:53 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
IN June 2009 Arthur Laffer wrote an article for the WSJ in which he stated:
"With U.S. GDP and federal tax receipts at about $14 trillion and $2.4 trillion respectively, such a debt all but guarantees higher interest rates, massive tax increases, and partial default on government promises....... We can expect rapidly rising prices and much, much higher interest rates over the next four or five years, and a concomitant deleterious impact on output and employment not unlike the late 1970s."
How'd that prediction work out for him, Reverend?
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
1:18 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
"Forecasting is a risky business, especially the future."
This is why economists have two hands..."But on the other hand."
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
1:29 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Why would Lafleur, sorry Laffer, question his own law? I don't think the Pope would question his own church either. ;~))
PS. Who paid for the drinks?
Craig Foster
11:55 am on Friday, October 12, 2012
But here is the biggest falsehood in the Romney/Ryan plan - Lower Taxes DO NOT create more jobs or economic growth . It has been proven.
Let me show you (Thanks Ezra Klein)
Richard Jertz
12:20 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Does it really matter. What does the vice president do other than attend funerals and do what the president does not want to. The vice president actually does less than Kevin MacDonald.
1:36 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Sorry, Richard, some VPs start huge wars based on lies.
Robert L Homeyer
8:24 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Richard - The VP sometimes becomes President. It has happened twice in many of our lifetimes (Truman & Johnson). Biden as President is a very scary thought.
12:22 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Well, the BIGBT sees it this way. Putin is laughing at us. Either way we are in a boatload of trouble.
12:23 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I am ok with my taxes being lowered and it not leading to economic growth or jobs, there are other ways you can accomplish that, raising them certainly doesn't accomplish it either!! Maybe it will just lead to more $$ in the pockets of struggling hard working Americans. I'm OK with that!!! Sorry I feel strongly that there are a lot of cuts/reform than can be made to save us all some $$.
SD From T-Bury
12:49 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Picture this.... the VP is speaking with a foreign leader, one hostile and dangerous to the US. Do you want that arrogant, condescending VP Biden talking to them, or do you want the calm, composed, studied responses Paul Ryan showed last night? Biden was embarrassing and Ryan was, well, presidential! Ryan won by a slam dunk!
Vincent DiRico
1:30 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
How has Joe's foreign policy expertise helped shape our direction, when will Iraq be split into 2? Joe is a gaff machine, a plagiarizing gas bag, oh sorry I forgot dem dementia blocks that out.
2:31 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
That is truly a scary thought indeed. Could you imagine crazy uncle Joe across the table from some of these middle eastern nut cases? Whose nuttier? Imagine the impression the USA give with crazy Joe's wild eyes, laughing, smirking in a foreign policy capacity. Its bad enough he's too close to the button.
1:19 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I'm more republican--but ill admit I'm not sure Ryan won every point, I think Biden had a couple....but his crazy demeanor really did overshadow the debate.
Doria Alberg
2:51 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Patricia, I don't like Obama's 'plan' either, but I believe he at least has one. So in your opinion, which is better?? Raising taxes on the middle class-47 percent of us t, doing away with medicare and substituting it with a voucher plan, letting the rich get richer, or keeping Obama in office. The devil you know etc.....
3:53 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Doria, not knowing how old you are, you do realize if you're in your 20's, chances are social security is not going to be what it is now because by then someone needs to have the balls to correct the problem. If you're 55+ you do realize the ryan plan does not involve you. The sound bites of rich getting richer are lame and provide no substance to the conversation, sound bites just negate your post. What exactly is the Obama/Biden plan for Medicare and social security? I haven't heard one. I might add that you are probably aware that this "voucher" plan would allow you to keep a plan very similar to the existing medicare plan. If you have kids, you should be hoping that someone like Ryan can try to fix what is broken for the future generations. It's not all about us you know.
Doria Alberg
2:55 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
And another thing to consider....what about our women? Do you want abortion to be kept as it is? I don't care if you're for or against abortion...personally for myself, I'm against it. But who the hell has the right to tell me what I can do with my body??? Who has that right with anyone's body, man or woman. I feel Romney/Ryan are too extreme. I'd rather keep someone like Obama in. Let's be honest, no one is going to be 100 percent what we want, there's always something about a candidate that could be better, I feel Obama is the lesser of two evils.
3:55 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
You can do whatever the hell you want with your body, just don't make me pay for it. No one's stopping you and no one plans to stop you. Do you really know the issues? How are Romney/Ryan too extreme? What has Obama done?
1:18 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Patricia sez: "You can do whatever the hell you want with your body, just don't make me pay for it. No one's stopping you and no one plans to stop you."
Is it possible that you've never heard of the Republican Party? Do you really not know that their party platform for 2012 supported a constitutional amendment banning abortion that would allow no exception for terminating pregnancies, even those caused by rape? Perhaps you are the one who does not know the issues.
3:47 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Obama is a racist radical and Biden is an senile old coot.
Obama racist views are well documented with his shoot from the hip comment about the "Cambridge Police Acted Stupidly" and "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon". His known radical friends are associated with cop killers and anarchist. Bernadin Dorhn and Bill Ayers of the Weather Underground. Obama listened and took to heart Rev Wright's racist hateful agenda.
As for Biden..... Well he's either lying or he's senile. He claimed he didn't vote for the two wars. Well he better check again, because he voted for both of them.
They both have divided Americans and have pitted us against one another. Time for them to go!
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
3:48 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Only the naive or misguided would come to believe that abortion could be outlawed in the United States, no matter who is in charge. Why do women, for either root cause, focus on this issue at election time?
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Kevin N
10:31 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I think the fear comes from political candidates like Ryan who may be in a position to change laws who say that they want to make abortion illegal. Ryan is now following the Romney campaign line but he has said in the past that he will oppose abortion being legal. I agree that it is unlikely to be outlawed but if only the naive or misguided believe it could be outlawed then what do you say about someone who votes for a candidate who has said he wants to try and outlaw it?
3:50 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I am a female and all this focus on the phoney war on women is an insult. Smart women have much more going on in their lives, we take care of our families and ourselves, we are not victims. The dems would like us to feel victimized but I refuse. This phoney war on women is for the stupid
4:01 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The Obamacare war on women will require medical professionals to only recommend mammograms for women over 50 "EVERY OTHER YEAR" up to 74 years old. The American Cancer Society states that women should be screened EVERY YEAR after 40 years old with no cutoff age.
Remember this when you hear about the war on women and when you vote in November.
Listen to someone who actually read the bill here explain it:
Nadine Houston Dalo
4:44 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I agree that we all think "our" candidate did better in the debate, but in all honesty I could never imagine our former governor as the leader of the free world..........Nor would I want Paul Ryan as V.P............As a senior female (baby boomer) the only option is to vote for democrats - and that includes Warren over Brown. I don't comprehend any one voting the republican extremists............and if they tell women what they "should" do with their bodies they are too extreme for me!
5:40 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
The Obama/Biden ticket will get you all the free Type 1 Carcinogenic, cancer causing contraceptives you want. And when you or your mother, wife, sister or daughter is diagnosed a little too late with late stage breast cancer, remember how you voted.
6:10 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Perhaps the best-kept secret of modern medicine is the link between oral contraceptives and increased breast cancer risk.
While combined oral contraceptives, better known as The Pill, rank as Group I carcinogens according to a 2005 report released by the International Agency for Research on Cancer, an arm of the World Health Organization, doctors continue to routinely prescribe the pill for a variety of conditions, ranging from acne to birth control (American Cancer Society, 2008)….
Kevin N
10:25 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
MO - Are you really trying to claim that Obama is pushing the pill and Romney will protect women from taking it? I 100% guarantee that there will be no change in the number of women taking the pill no matter who wins the election.
11:24 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Not only will countless more women be taking Type 1 Carcinogens on a daily basis if Obama gets another 4 years, but these same women also won't be able to get the mammograms they'll need to detect the cancer it can and will cause many of them. One more victim is one more too many.
I think you put too much trust in Obama's unelected and unaccountable 15 person panel of bureaucrats that will make your health decisions beginning next year.
saul glick
6:48 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Yes, there is a war on women. Every four years, whoever wants the female vote, says there is a war on women. The next war on women will be in 2K16. The war on women has become a campaign slogan, and a media sound byte. See you in 2K16
Don Ordway
7:42 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
It was the female moderators fault. Strong women like strong men do not look for excuses when critizised. They provide answers or ignore the people that ask stupid questions. The Vice Presidential Moderator may agree with the criticism and become a better person. It may have been criticism the moderator deserved, we are not perfect people. It also is not the first time a moderator has been criticised. For decades there have been people that make a comfortable living dividing one group against another. Those that participate in this divisive behavior are destroying their own lives. When one group of people can tear down another group of people they both are at fault. Do not tolerate people that want to weaken you by making you victims. They are not your friends. They will bleed you for as long as they can and you will pick up the bill. Be yourself and you will receive the respect that you deserve. We are Americans and we are fair. We get no pleasure from having our wives, mothers, daughters or sisters abused by anyone. Don't follow the pack, chart your own course and you will find the success that you deserve.
Mark Ouellette
6:13 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Two comments have been removed from this thread for violating Patch's Terms of Use: www.patch.com/terms
7:36 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Being Independent...I believe that laughing at someone speaking is some form of bullying...supposedly not to be tolerate! Great examples from the WHITE HOUSE!
Robert L Homeyer
8:17 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
I was a little disappointed in the debate. No one hit a home run but it is difficult to debate someone who interrupts you nearly 100 times. Our sitting Vice President is a clown. The CNN poll reported 48/44 Ryan/Biden.
8:40 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Instead of arguing endlessly about the candidates' made-up "facts" and lies, and repeating them ad nauseum, why don't you check them first on websites, such as factcheck.org or.politifact.com? It will save you lot of energy, minimize your frustration, and as a bonus, you'll be able to vote intelligently. iso based on unfounded opinions.
8:53 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
@ Robert
As J-P Sartre once wrote (I paraphrase) "one gets the advice that one seeks." The CBS poll gave Biden as the winner over Ryan, 50/31!
The CBS poll was conducted among uncommitted voters, which constitute 15 - 20% of the electorate, while the CNN poll asked 381 registered voters. You are most likely a Republican registered voter, otherwise you would have considered BOTH polls, and also abstained calling the VP a name.
Robert L Homeyer
9:18 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Quasimodo - I had not seen the CBS poll but just looked it up. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. How we vote in Massachusetts generally does not matter much since we live in a very liberal state. The new Florida polls offer a much clearer picture as reported yesterday. Florida is a swing state and how they vote is important. I tend to track www.realclearpolitics.com. Romney/Ryan gained 2 points. I do not always trust polls but they have a lot of them and since the numbers all moved after the debate it looks like Ryan won. Even NH seems to have moved Romney/Ryan (based on the polls). We will know much better after the next two Presidential debates.
9:23 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
The only thing that came out in this debate that mattered to me in the least was the question of Pro-Choice..Pro-Life................if there are any women out there who vote Romney/Ryan you might as well hand your uterus to them now
Vincent DiRico
10:08 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
this is an oldie, WOW those suffering dem dementia must think the wheels surely have come off of Mr 0 campaign if they see the need to play this card, ...
FACT: If RvW were struck down then abortions (yes/no) would fall to each state.
Vincent DiRico
1:50 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
"Living in MA it is hard to believe this is going on in our country"
-> I think you are saying YOU know better how others should live their lives, ... dem dementia for sure
Vincent DiRico
1:59 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
just so we are clear dem dementia is:
- re-electing a failed president
- re-electing a gas bag vp
- not holding the president accountable for his failure on the economy
- not holding the president accountable for his failed foreign policy, lying about the 9/11/2012 terrorist attack
- not holding the president accountable for using class warfare as a campaign strategy
- > $6 TRILLION!!!!!! added to the national debt over 4 years and no plan in action to get it under control
- driving Ds and Rs as far apart as they currently are, not leading
- changing from "hope and change" to "mope and blame"
- ...
- voting for someone because they have a D next to their name
9:39 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Jo - we have heard thst same lie for the past 25 years along with Roe v Wade is doomed.
Just because you keep repeating a lie does not make it any more true.
I support to do whatever it is you wish to do to your own body, just try to deal with reality.
9:50 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
I believe "jo" is correct. During the next 4 years, there will be at least 2 vacancies at the US Supreme Court. You can bet that a Romney victory would result in couple more Scalias on the Court, and in the next challenge of Roe vs Wade, the outcome would be obvious.
3:02 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Hey Mark........who asked you first of all.........I was stating a fact, did you not hear what Ryan had to say during the debate or are you deaf??
"Personally, I believe that life begins at conception, and it is for that reason that I feel we need to protect that life as we would protect other children,"
As a pro-life congressman, it's no surprise Paul Ryan has supported bills including the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act and the No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act.
But he's also lent his support to more controversial legislation, recently backing a bill that would require a woman seeking an abortion to receive an ultrasound from her doctor to make sure she sees the fetal image
Is this not ruling against a women's right to choose?
Or are republicans deaf, dumb and blind?
saul glick
10:54 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
No one is ever going to win the abortion argument. Never. Every election, it is like the war on women slogan. It comes up every 4 years and then dissapears until the next election. Yawn, is it 2k16 yet?
There is not a lot of talk this year on gloabal warming? Not a lot of talk on gay marriage either.
3:16 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Maybe you haven't paid attention lately? There are always groups in different States which promote bills to stop abortions. These cases eventually end up at the SC. You know full well that if the Romney's appointees, just one of them get hold of the case, Roe Vs. Wade will be rejected at least 5-4.
4:05 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Global warming is a HOAX. That's one pretty BIG reason not to trust science. Most likely the biggest hoax in American history. The EPA intentionally buried a study proving it. Alan Carlin, author of the EPA study on climate change stated "My view…there is not currently any reason to regulate carbon dioxide. Global temperatures are roughly where they were in the mid-20th century." "They're not going up. If anything, they're going down."
Everyone needs to watch this:
6:34 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Alan Carlin has a Ph.D in Economics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a B.S. in Physics from the California Institute of Technology. My favorite quote of his "The Obama Administration has made many efforts to support its climate religion. Since this viewpoint has no basis in the scientific method, it is not science and would seem best characterized as religion."
Sorry that hearing the truth via Fox news is mental torture to most Progressives and Liberals as you can't stand the truth or reality.
9:29 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
It's a HOAX about redistribution of wealth, and scientists from all over the world including employees from NASA have become whistleblowers. Did you read the letter sent by 49 NASA employees including astronauts stating the claims are unsubstantiated considering the thousands of years of empirical data?
It's over, time to face the truth. We know it's a hoax.
Watch this to learn more about Obama's Green Agenda and see how corrupt the EPA has become.
Note to Parents: this is a must see to catch a glimpse of the brainwashing going on in our local schools.
Wind Dummy 25
11:05 am on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Old man Joe B won what? May I remind you all..
President's budget sinks, 97-0
The Senate voted unanimously on Wednesday to reject a $3.7 trillion budget plan that President Obama sent to Capitol Hill in February.
Ninety-seven senators voted against a motion to take it up.
Democratic aides said ahead of the vote that the Democratic caucus would not support the plan because it has been supplanted by the deficit-reduction plan Obama outlined at a speech at George Washington University in April.
Good old boy Joe had nothing in the trunk to argue intelligently, never has.
Of course he had to play class clown, instead of a 40 year Washington insider.
And Some of you defend that weird Biden display? "yes we want more", no thank you.
You think the math is bad now, wait till China goes broke. Most of you would not survive what you envision.
Vincent DiRico
1:47 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
"No Democratic senator was willing to support it, however, after Obama discussed a more ambitious plan at George Washington University to save $4 trillion over 12 years. Republicans criticized his speech for lacking detail."
- Nelly: how is that $4 trillion reduction plan working out? and this happened every year Mr 0 held office (no budget passed the senate).
Vincent DiRico
3:37 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
seems reading comprehension is an issue ;) did uncle Joe the gas bag (aka Mr the words don't always come out correctly) post that last comment?
4:17 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Who needs a budget?? Democrats AND Republicans haven't agreed on one in over decade. May I remind people that it takes two to tango. Something that both parties have been unwilling to do. My guess is that whoever wins the election it will be more of the same.
The last time that we had a full-on, real-life federal budget that was signed into law, it was 1997. Bill Clinton was president, and Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House (and only on his second wife).
Vincent DiRico
4:36 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
I could say "what # cigar was Clinton on?" but I won't that was just an example ;) talk about a war on woman and dem dementia (blocking out traumatic events)!
Vincent DiRico
5:07 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
and all it takes is one LEADER who knows what he is doing, willing to compromise, that clearly did NOT happen during Mr 0's first big boy gig!
5:42 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Yes, Vincent, there is certainly blame to be shared by both sides of the aisle. However, I will remind you that it was the Republican policy, EXPLICITLY and PUBLICLY expressed by Mitch McConnell, Republican Minority Leader of the Senate, to have the Obama Administration fail, and counter all of its efforts to pass absolutely everything: it almost have worked.
Vincent DiRico
6:43 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
exhibit A: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR2010102502408.html
The roots of Obama's demise
By Marc A. Thiessen
Monday, October 25, 2010
The decline of the Obama presidency can be traced to a meeting at the White House just three days after the inauguration, when the new president gathered congressional leaders of both parties to discuss his proposed economic stimulus. House Republican Whip Eric Cantor gave President Obama a list of modest proposals for the bill. Obama said he would consider the GOP ideas, but told the assembled Republicans that "elections have consequences" and "I won." Backed by the largest congressional majorities in decades, the president was not terribly interested in giving ground to his vanquished adversaries.
Vincent DiRico
6:52 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
exhibit B: http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/pelosi-healthcare-vote-democrats/2010/03/16/id/352913
Democratic leaders already plan to employ the parliamentary maneuver known as reconciliation. Under reconciliation, Congress agrees on general objectives and uses reconciliation to plug in specific numbers later. It is intended to streamline legislative debates and amendments related to budget-related legislation.
Reconciliation became necessary following Sen. Scott Brown's upset win in Massachusetts, which cost Senate Democrats the 60th vote they need to head off any filibuster of new legislation.
Vincent DiRico
6:56 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
exhibit C (checkmate): http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/24/Dems-Lie-McConnell-One-Term-President
Dems' Favorite Lie: McConnell Wanted Obama to Fail From The Start
Back in December 2010, two full years into Barack Obama's presidency, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) remarked, "Our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term." He was speaking after two years of Obama ramming through exponential spending increases, Obamacare, and a feckless foreign policy that had crippled United States policy in the Middle East. He also stated that he didn't want Obama to fail, but to change.
8:28 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
read'em and weep? why? I'm not personally vested in them unlike others. Why shouldn't I choose IBM?
Some people have waaayyyy too much time on their hands and should get off the grid.
Question, do you have these thoughts and then goggle them looking for some article to back up your thoughts? Or do you actually read and memorize all these mostly obscure articles? Either way it explains a lot. I know I know it is the FACTS. lol
Vincent DiRico
8:42 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
"waaayyyy too much time on their hands" like time to post a gem like this over on the liquor license thread
9:01 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
hey now ;)
you lose
11:02 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
you like that one don't you ;)
glad to see your cut and paste clicks are working, you must be a software engineer :)
There is a benefit to laughter to which I find somethings amusing. In particular some peoples comments. Such as:
"Vincent, Jesse James' name, as he just stated above, is also a pseudonym. Like Alex, he's also welcome to comment.
If you're interested in reducing the "poison", what I would recommend is that you become more positive and constructive in your comments to those you disagree with and request the same from others of all opinions."
But don't worry Big Blue will do just fine. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/mitt-romney-says-big-business-doing-fine-after-criticizing-obama-for-similar-remarks/
7:27 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
I wonder if Mitt will close this "loophole".
Big corporate tax evader IBM. Keep in mind that neither political party ever actually cuts spending significantly, so every dollar this company avoids paying is one that will come out of the paychecks of working America.
CEO: Samuel Palmisano (He also serves on Exxon Mobile's board of directors. Palmisano ranked 21st on Forbes' list of CEO pay, pulling down a tidy sum of over $25 million last year.)
2010 Pre-tax Profit: $19.7 billion
How IBM avoids paying US taxes: Over three years in the early 2000s, the company exploited "a litany of tax breaks" that allowed it to slash its taxes by 95 percent! Bet you wish you could do that.
IBM fun-fact: According to Reuters, IBM has cut 30,000 US jobs since 2003, which is good news for Indian tech workers – the company added 69,000 jobs in India over the same period.
Vincent DiRico
7:35 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
ummm, ya, that is his message
and you numbers are OLD, China is the growth market in tech now, I know all about it ;)
8:40 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
you have nothing new to offer the conversation so don't even bother
last time I checked the WSJ, India still was one of the top leaders in tech growth
Vincent DiRico
8:55 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
check again -> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9169678/IBM_stops_disclosing_U.S._headcount_data
are you saying you chose IBM by accident? I guess everyone gets lucky, just not on the numbers/FACTs!
9:10 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
straight from the article you just posted
Ron Hira, an associate professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology, said the workforce data is critical to helping policymakers understand the dynamics of offshoring. "By hiding its offshoring, IBM is doing a disservice to America -- through omission the company is providing misleading labor market signals and information to policymakers," Hira said.
Exactly might point. Thanks for backing it up!
Vincent DiRico
9:17 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
Did I dispute any of that? The article clearly states IBM no longer reports headcount and you think you know where they are adding headcount (based on old stale data). I told you I know more about their headcount than you do and that Mitt's policy is to lower tax rates and close loopholes (where we started) and you proved what exactly? you are almost out of time once again
Vincent DiRico
9:31 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
another very relevant question is why did you skip all the way down to IBM when GE sits as a poster child in this area? General Electric's CEO Jeffrey Immelt has served as chair of Mr 0's Jobs Council
Obama Jobs Council Packed With Outsourcing Companies
Bam's angry adviser
Immelt appalled at O'nomics
Report: Members of Obama's Job Panel Outsourced Jobs to China
read'em and weep!
7:31 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
exhibit C (checkmate)
Nice try, Vincent, but the obstacle course started right from the beginning of the O Administration. It became "official" in 2010, with McConnell's pronouncement, but it was there for already 2 years. Don't you remember Rush, the Republican court jester, bragging about it right in his first show, following the presidential inauguration?
Robert L Homeyer
10:23 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
geesh...when I left this discussion this morning it was centered on the debate...lol. Now I read it has turned into evolution, global warming, and redistribution of wealth. For that I will put my two cents in.
Global warming is real. It is happening and does happen periodically. We are helping it along at a faster pace and we have no intention of slowing it down. We should but we won't.
Evolution is real. The bible is real. The Roman Catholic Church supports science and faith and science do not have to dovetail.
Redistribution of wealth is real and is ongoing. This is the basis of taxation. According to 2007 figures, it costs $8,500.00 per person per year to live in this country. If you pay more, you are paying some elses fair share. If you pay less, someone else is paying your fair share.
11:26 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012
If you truly want to understand Sustainable Development and the Redistribution of Wealth scheme, this video is the perfect place to start. This refers to the Rio Summit (aka United Nations Agenda 21) that John Kerry and his wife attended in the video I posted above titled "Obama's Green Agenda".
After watching check to see if your city belongs to ICLEI.
9:45 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Obama's education plan, ObamaCore (the Common Core Standards), have been vetted by The Pioneer Institute of Boston. Pioneer has stated that the Common Core standards are mediocre and aim for community college-level, and also that the promotion of national standards and assessments by the federal government is illegal.
Adopting Obama's Common Core Standards were an enormous mistake and a huge step down for education in MA.
Read a letter here explaining how MA came about adopting these "illegal" standards:
10:44 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Non-partisan Pulitzer Prize-winning website, PolitiFact.com, rates political statements "True", "Mostly True", "Half True", "Mostly False", "False", or "Pants-on-Fire." Using PolitiFact.com ratings Truth Quotients for politicians and political organizations are calculated based on the ratio (2T+MT)/(MF+2F+3PoF) and then ranked. A TQ above one indicates mostly truthful. Below one, not so much.
The pressures of the campaign have indeed taken quite a toll on Mitt Romney's TQ. While a year ago Romney's veracity was a slight favorite over the toss of a coin (TQ a tad greater than 1), he has steadily declined to a TQ of just 0.58. His disgracefully mendacious performance in the first presidential debate was no help at all. However, President Obama's current TQ of 1.49 is almost exactly the same as it was in September of 2011.
If you care which candidate is more truthful, the choice is clear. If you don't care who is telling the truth the country respectfully requests that you refrain from voting. You're not helping.
1:27 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Biased, indeed, as their URL indicates.
Fred Oleary
12:14 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
here's an experiment folks: turn off your computer. Now review how good a use of your time all these comments have been.
Did you really think you'd ever convince anyone here to think the way you do? Or are you just scoring worthless points on people you'll never meet and who are in no way interested in changing their opinion even when faced with indisputable fact?
How can we expect our politicians to be productive if this is what constitutes a decent use of the electorate's time?
Go throw a ball with your kids, cook a new meal or read a book....or at least turn off the computer. If there is anything contributing to the apathy of this Democracy or the sluggish economic growth its millions of people sitting around yelling at a wall we call Comments. Here's an idea: go start a company, since you all have so many great ideas and know how to fix the economy (actually, every societal problem). Then when you are rich you can either give all your money away to charity or use it to buy politicians. Either way, you'd stop being part of the 99%. Now I made an unfounded assumption about the socio-economic status of you folks...but I feel its safe to make that one because I guarantee no successful person (in business or life) is sitting around repeating these patterns you are...and then expecting their life to get better.
Don't thank me, thank Tony Robbins.
12:39 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Or if your golf game got rained out you could hop on over to this site and see how Obama's Race to the Top funds are supporting a UN Curriculum.
Vincent DiRico
3:20 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
hi, with all due respect: Why do you care, I bet TR would tell you to mind your own P & Qs, in case that was not a TR lesson I sent it along free of charge. Is it OK to watch the PATs? ;)
Fred Oleary
12:44 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
"I guarantee no successful person (in business or life) is sitting around repeating these patterns you are"
I wonder when we'll see the day where it's legal for hack partisans to fight to the death (preferably via pay per view), so we can get the Internet back to the productive, wholesome place it otherwise would be. In the plus column for you types, you'd get some fresh air and sunshine at least....do it up like hunger games or something that the young kids like, maybe that would get them into lessons on civic duty and politicking.
I bet we'd have plenty of takers too...it's easier to fight than it is to live on realizing you are merely a fleshy conduit for poorly sourced Google searches. Not to mention all the wasted data being shuttled across the wires. My god Sierra Club ought push a ban Commenting on the grounds its causing global warming. Or at the very least, making people buy Carbon Credits based on the volume they "comment."
I personally love the idea of attaching a credit card verification to all comments on non-paid websites. Pay a penny to verify once and post to your hearts content...with your own full name. Would cut out the tide of the chattering class who confuse being informed with "can type in a search box". But if we can get Net Neutrality killed then it may well come about, so there's hope....and our man Mitt will probably help in that regard. Still, I'm undecided. See what happens Tuesday.
Til then, as you were (and will be)....
1:29 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
By Josh Barro:
Mitt Romney's campaign says I'm full of it. I said Romney's tax plan is mathematically impossible: he can't simultaneously keep his pledges to cut tax rates 20 percent and repeal the estate tax and alternative minimum tax; broaden the tax base enough to avoid growing the deficit; and not raise taxes on the middle class. They say they have six independent studies -- six! -- that "have confirmed the soundness of the Governor's tax plan," and so I should stop whining. Let's take a tour of those studies and see how they measure up.
1:43 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Ed Gillespie went on TV this morning and said Romney would only reveal the details of his tax plan after he's sworn into office as President. That alone should be enough to disqualify him. There are a number of reports that suggest the only issue is specificity. As in The Hill reporting that Gillespie is "defending the GOP nominee against criticisms that his tax-cutting plan lacks specifics."
But every independent expert who's looked at Romney's plan says that the math simply doesn't work. You can't cut rates by 20% for the highest income earners and then make up the lost revenue by closing loopholes and deductions unless you dramatically hike taxes for middle income families. That's the conclusion of the most comprehensive study of the plan. This isn't because Romney or his advisors are bad at math. It's because they're lying, trying to get elected based on a fraud.
Yesterday Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation reported that their study showed cutting all the deductions and loopholes would only pay for a 4% cut in rates. 4% vs 20%. The mammoth difference in those two numbers gives you a sense of the nonsense Romney's peddling.
Romney says there are "six studies" which validate his math. But those are articles and blog posts from his supporters which in most cases don't even themselves back up his math.
This central claim of his campaign is a fraud. People are pressing for details because he's saying 2 + 2 = 6 and that should make people suspicious.
Vincent DiRico
11:42 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
if you read the Simpson and Bowles report you will see that the feds forgo $1.1 trillion per year (first paragraph in section 2 Tax Reform), using the math the dems like the most that is $11 trillion over 10 years. $11 trillion is more than $5 trillion ("arithmetic") so it is doable. The dems just want to negotiate it now during the election. I think Mitt is correct to just lay out the outline and the principles he'll use. This is far more than Mr 0 has said about the next 4 years.
1:49 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Anyone else tired of all those bike lanes popping up like weeds in our cities? It's all part of Obama's "Sustainability" plan:
"Bikes. What does that have to do with it? I like to ride my bike and so do you. So what? Bicycle advocacy groups are very powerful now. Advocacy. A fancy word for lobbying, influencing, and maybe strong-arming the public and politicians. What's the conection with bike groups? National groups such as Complete Streets, Thunderhead Alliance, and others, have training programs teaching their members how to pressure for redevelopment, and training candidates for office. It's not just about bike lanes, it's about remaking cities and rural areas to the 'sustainable model'. High density urban development without parking for cars is the goal. This means that whole towns need to be demolished and rebuilt in the image of sustainable development. Bike groups are being used as the 'shock troops' for this plan."
2:26 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Hey that reminds me about Dick Morris' new book "Here Come the Black Helicopters". It's a book about UN Global governance and the loss of freedom.
8:57 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Anyone else tired of all of those cars, cars, cars clogging the roads of our cities? It's all part of the Republican Party's "Paveability" plan:
"Cars and oil. What does that have to do with it? I like to drive my car and so do you. So what? Automobile and oil/gas advocacy groups are very powerful now. Advocacy. A fancy word for lobbying, influencing, and maybe strong-arming the public and politicians. What's the connection with auto groups? National groups such as the American Petroleum Institute, the US Oil and Gas Association, the National Petroleum Association and others, have training programs teaching their members how to pressure for redevelopment, and training candidates for office. It's not just about more highways, it's about remaking cities and rural areas to the 'auto-usable model'. massive urban reconstruction with more roads and parking for cars is the goal. This means that whole residential areas need to be demolished and rebuilt in the image of high auto-usage development. Auto groups are being used as the 'shock troops' for this plan."
Andrew Sylvia
3:37 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Comments have been deleted for violations of the terms of service.
5:07 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Ryan won. More poise, more professional, more dignified, more of a leader. Biden is an obnoxious, smug, unprofessional. How can you trust a guy like that?
8:33 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Joe Biden reminding me of a drunk old man sitting at the VFW or Moose Lodge solving the world's problems while buying everyone another round!! I suggest anyone that thinks Biden is for the middle class look into what he has done for the Credit Card companies. And, look at how his son got a job with one of the Credit Card compaines. Has anyone ever wondered why a lot of credit card companies are based in MD? Biden, Obama the only thing they want to do with the middle class is to make the middle class vanish. The more people dependent on the Government the more votes for them
7:40 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
The Republicans are predictably having a case of the vapors over that horrible Joe Biden's terrible manners, which is hilarious from the people who had no problem with Newt Gingrich browbeating the moderators to their faces or audience members screaming out "yeah!" when Wolf Blitzer asking if people who don't have insurance should die. To hear them go on today, fainting couches have sold out all over the country.
Like all petty bullies, the Republicans hate most when someone fights back.
8:36 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Obama's education plan to transform our children in Global citizens is explained in the video below.
All parents with school age children need to see this.
Knowledge is power.
8:37 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Something genuinely disturbing and scary got said at the debate by Paul Ryan that is, I think, easily missed and still worth brooding over.
Paul Ryan did not say, as John Kennedy had said before him, that faith was faith and public service, public service, each to be honored and kept separate from the other. No, he said instead "I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do." That's a shocking answer—a mullah's answer, what those scary Iranian "Ayatollahs" he kept referring to when talking about Iran would say as well. Ryan was rejecting secularism itself, casually insisting, as the Roman Catholic Andrew Sullivan put it, that "the usual necessary distinction between politics and religion, between state and church, cannot and should not exist." And he went on to make it quietly plain that his principles are uncompromising on this, even if his boss's policy may not seem so.
10:17 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Stiv, I agree and that is a huge issue I have with the far right Republican's. I long for the Golwater Republican's that would separate the moral from the legislative.
I do think you are engaging in hyperbole when you call his answer "a mullah answer". I see his answer no more or less concerning than those on the left who continue to speak and attempt to legislate for a "wall of separation" such as trying to make a nativity scene on public property and validation of one religion.
8:47 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
I don't think that it's hyperbole. If you asked a mullah about faith and public service, don't you think that they would say something very similar to "Our faith informs us in everything we do." ?
10:11 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Sure Stiv, but tell me the where Ryan, or Romney for that matter, said "all law must come from the bible". That is mullah territory.
11:51 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
I'm glad we agree. As for the other half of your comment, you are stating something that was never said or implied.
P.P. Longstocking
5:16 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Paul Ryan's faith is very convenient. I don't doubt that he believes that Opus Catholic idea of womens' primary role being as vessels for children. That's old school Catholic. And 8th century misogynistic. When a man who may become the second most powerful person in the world genuinely believes that's what women are good for, he'll make choices based on those beliefs. God will tell him to. And that's exactly what a mullah does. The comparison is spot on.
Vincent DiRico
7:00 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
"womens' primary role" -> surely their role is not crawling (or being thrown) under a bus for the big dem in office, is it? Oh wait poor Hillary crawled under the bus for Mr 0 and was flatten by the BC bus. Imagine a world where the President of the USA stood up and took responsibility!
Donal Waide
9:09 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Paul Ryan was asked a direct question about abolishing mortgage tax relief and he avoided the answer. That secures a vote right there for anyone with a mortgage. Sure, he won't raise taxes, but by removing all your deductions, it's the same end result....less money in your pocket.
10:21 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
Donal, not if they lower your tax rate. If they lower your rate 5% and remove deductions to equal that 5% number it is a wash. That is their stated goal. Since deductions are after tax and a rate decrease is pretax, your effective rate may even go down.
Kevin N
10:26 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
That is the only relevant thing in this discussion. Anyone who itemizes their deductions and earns under 250K will see a tax increase under the Romney/Ryan plan.
10:40 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
@ Bob
What you wrote would be correct if this was the Romney/Ryan intention, and in this case, the Government would see no increases in its revenues and therefore this "exercise" in duplicity would have been for not: we would remain in the present big mess! It's like taking a $ from your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket (or vice versa ;`), and in that case the average tax payer has no more free cash than he/she had before. In other word, the Romney/Ryan plan is at best a bad joke, but more exactly a first class swindle, which hide their true intention.
Vincent DiRico
11:16 am on Monday, October 15, 2012
folks, vote how you like but why lie?
Long-Term Goal: Pursue a Fairer, Flatter, Simpler Tax Structure
In the long run, Mitt Romney will pursue a conservative overhaul of the tax
system that includes lower and flatter rates on a broader tax base. The approach
taken by the Bowles-Simpson Commission is a good starting point for the
discussion. The goal should be a simpler, more efficient, user-friendly, and less onerous tax system. Every American would be readily able to ascertain what they
owed and why they owed it, and many forms of unproductive tax gamesmanship
would be brought to an end. Conversely, tax reform should not be used as an
under-the-radar means of raising taxes. Where reforms that simplify the code
or encourage growth have the effect of increasing the tax burden, they should
be offset by reductions in marginal rates. Washington's problem is not too little
revenue, but rather too much spending.
1:25 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Quasi, it would if that were the end of it. It is part of a larger plan to get American's back to work. If those two things happen as they plan, it would mean about 12 million more tax payers and the income would far outpace. One must open one's mind stop looking at it in a phone booth.
Also it would mean more money in your pocket if it was tax rate vs. deduction. Deductions are taken after tax income. Tax rate is before/during. Any benefit pre-tax is better than an equal post tax.
In your example I have $2 dollars in my left pocket and I can put one in my right pocket without paying fees or taxes. I then pay government taxes and fees on the $1 dollar still in my left pocket but not on the one I already moved into the right! More money in right pocket!
Dave Gray
1:01 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
I feel the hand of government in my pocket again. While Governor, Romney increased just about every fee he could think of, some by more than 50%, all the while claiming he reduced taxes. I'm sorry, but money paid to the government, no matter what you call it, is a tax. Claiming it's not is horsehockey.
We've been down this road before. It was excessive and punitive taxes - The Stamp Act, The Tea Act, and later the Coercive and Intolerable Acts - that led directly to the formation of this country. Now it seems the only way to stop runaway taxes and deficits is to initiate a tax revolt. Remember what gets grabbed when the hand goes into your pocket deep enough.
saul glick
4:29 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Yes Dave, fees are a tax. So are fees at Arlington High. Music, Drama, and Athletic fees. These are all taxes, according to your opinion. Right?
5:01 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
If the moneys collected exceed the expenses then the fee is a tax.
Dave Gray
6:31 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Yes, they are, just as they were when I paid them when my kids were in school. Any monies paid to a government entity to provide or supplement a public service or program are taxes, despite the spin the pols try to put on it. Especially egregious is a fee for kindergarten, but sport and club fees are also taxes.
Dave Gray
6:47 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Stephen, while Emerson v. Boston may be the case law, that doesn't make it good law. It's 28 years old and probably didn't contemplate people having to pay a $3000.00 kindergarten fee. For example, the three prong test is: 1. Based on services being performed or delivered;
2. Legitimate when the services received for the fee are provided only to the beneficiaries of the services; and 3. Paid by choice. Sure, you could argue that you have a choice about sending a child to kindergarten, but is it a viable choice? By not paying it, you have insured that your child is a year behind starting first grade. A pig by any other name is still a pig.
9:12 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
"YOUNGSTOWN — The president of Mahoning County's St. Vincent De Paul Society is "shocked" and "angry" that Republican vice-presidential nominee Paul Ryan used the soup kitchen for a "publicity stunt."
Brian J. Antal, who runs the society, said today the campaign "ramrodded themselves in there" without getting proper permission for the visit Saturday that followed Ryan's town-hall meeting at Youngstown State University."
Another example of "malarkey," I guess...
Vincent DiRico
10:16 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
YES complete "malarkey"
the campaign followed its usual protocol for impromptu, on-the-road stops by candidates: A staffer was dispatched to the St. Vincent De Paul Society ahead of Ryan's visit Saturday morning and spoke with a woman in charge on site, who said that it would be fine for the congressman to stop by. The campaign did not contact Antal ahead of the visit.
The woman on site told the Romney staffer that some of the volunteers had already left, but that most were happy to remain until Ryan arrived, according to the aide. After Ryan left the soup kitchen, the woman approached a campaign staffer and expressed gratitude for Ryan's visit, the aide said.
11:42 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Yes, Vincent,
What a spin!!!!! Ryan went in the kitchen with his wife, put on an apron, picked up a pot (a dirty one?) , and pretended to be an average-joe, "compassionate" citizen. He was there just enough time to fool the public with the picture shoot. This is a blatant example of how Ryan and his buddy operate. What a bunch of liar!!! And you try to justify this malarkey? I guess people like you deserve what they get: a bad government.
Vincent DiRico
11:47 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Get on the bus! Get on the bus! Get on the bus!
wait are you in the drivers seat?
all politicians do these, wake up!
spend some time digging into the 2012 terrorist attack (the lies, the cover-up, ...) and start thinking how you are going to spin your way out of that after Mitt hits Mr 0 over the head with it tonight!
Vincent DiRico
2:41 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
hmm Mr 0 is going to have a headache tomorrow morning
Battery builder A123 Systems that won $249 million federal grant files for bankruptcy
"No company has embodied Washington's hope for an American-built electric vehicle business like A123 Systems. The Massachusetts-based company was supposed to become the leading home-grown supplier of lithium-ion batteries for automakers in the United States and around the world -- fueled in part by a $249 million grant from the Obama administration. Today, A123 Systems filed for bankruptcy, saying much of its assets would be sold after losing $857 million over the past several years."
- not ready for prime-time "green" energy or as reality proved lack of energy (like Mr 0 in a debate)
- the feds should not be doling out $ like this
- ...
9:23 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Romney-Ryan ticket will take away my mortgage deduction but abolish estate tax for the millionaires. They won't pass the middle class tax cut unless their millionaire friends gets the same benefits and larger chunk of the pie.
This is not only scary but sad an I am ashamed how the republican party has sold out to the rich and stopped caring about the middle class.
Vincent DiRico
10:32 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
MRS. OBAMA: Get on the bus! Get on the bus! Get on the bus! Yes, get on the bus
Andrew Sylvia
12:59 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Comments have been deleted due to violations of our terms of use.
Mark Ouellette
1:07 pm on Friday, October 26, 2012
A comment was deleted from this threat for violating Patch's Terms of Use: www.patch.com/terms