text:
To be honest, I have been quite surprised by comments that show up on various threads concerning a variety of prejudicial statements. They range from gender prejudices, to cultural prejudices, religious prejudices, and, of course, racial prejudices. What is disturbing is not necessarily the person/s making the statement/s, but the implicit support received from other comments.
You can always count on certain individuals, usually under some nom de plume, to be the source of such derision. I often wonder if they used their real names, if they would be so willing to make such outlandish statements.
It appears that as we get closer to elections, the prejudicial statements increase in frequency and intensity. With Barrack Obama's election in 2008, I sincerely hoped that we had passed a major milestone in accepting a person of color to the highest office in the land and racial prejudice was now behind us. But, from the many racially motivated comments; it seems that we have yet to pass that milestone.
Congressional Rep. Tammy Baldwin's run for the vacated U.S. Senate seat is also marred with prejudicial statements about her well-known sexual orientation. Often times I can't tell which prejudice is more intense, her sexual orientation or the fact that she is a woman running for a traditional male seat. As far as I know, Wisconsin has never elected a woman to the U.S. Senate or the Governor's office in its entire history.
I have also seen a number of prejudicial comments made about Mitt Romney's religious affiliation with the LDS Church. This is unfortunate and indicates a severe intolerance of religious diversity. For some, his religious beliefs are prima facie evidence of his unsuitability to serve as president; it is equal to, if he might have come out and admitted to being an atheist.
Prejudices and bias plays such a role in our society's structure and values orientation that it's hard to dismiss as inconsequential; especially at a time when we are looking at electing representation and leadership. How do people come to such prejudices in the first place?
Sociologists have identified three primary means for acquiring prejudices. The first is attributed to "nature" and is something that humans are born with; the fear of strangers or the unfamiliar. The second source of prejudice is an element of nurture, which is learned prejudice. The final source of acquisition of prejudice is through experiential personal events.
Natural Prejudice
The fear of the unfamiliar, including strangers, can easily be identified as something that is genetically hardwired into the species as a survival mechanism. The unfamiliar and strangers represent a danger to the primitive mind. Part of the socialization process of all humans includes a means for assessing the danger of the unfamiliar. In many cases the prejudices that are reinforced in the socialization process are necessary to provide for the well being of the individual. For example: Teaching a child to refuse to talk to strangers is a self protection device that must be continuously reinforced until the child displays a certain level of wariness to be able to afford a certain level of awareness to potentially dangerous situations.
Learned Cultural Prejudice
The accumulation of prejudice through cultural learning is something else entirely. These are values and attitudes that are separate from actuality and are based on presupposed beliefs of an individual or group about target individuals or groups. The target group is stereotyped as having certain negative characteristics that define them as less than fully human. It may include culture, gender, skin color, body type, dress, religion, sexual orientation, etc. A good example of this is classical racism. A racist is not born that way but must be taught to be that way. The holder of the prejudice assumes a higher status just by not being a member of the targeted racial group. What lies beneath all learned prejudices is a structural belief and value system that supports a superior status of the prejudiced individual and is reinforced by the natural proclivity of ethnocentrism and in extreme cases, xenophobia.
I often hear members of the white majority talk in terms of reverse racism. That is a different type of prejudice, all together, and will be covered in the third means of prejudice accumulation. However, what some call reverse racism is nothing more than a reaction to the racism of the majority, with the majority the initial instigator of the prejudice. This is a common reaction of any minority to a majority that claims a higher status simply by means of being within the majority.
The acculturated (learned) prejudiced seems to constitute the most destructive type of prejudice or bias. In order for the individual to continue to hold their prejudicial views and beliefs, they must be continuously validated. Therefore, the holder of such views is unable or unwilling to perceive anything about the targeted individual or group that doesn't validate the prejudiced belief. This is called selective perception. For example: Some are unable to accept that a person of say, a racial minority, was able to get into a prestigious education institution based strictly on their abilities and record, but must have been given some special status and consideration by lowering the requirements just to let in someone who is automatically less qualified because of race. The underlying belief is that it isn't possible for someone of the targeted minority to have the attributes to have qualified independent of their race.
The destructiveness of this type of prejudice has plagued this nation for centuries and in many ways holds or society back from progressing and adapting beyond a certain level. It wasn't that all long ago that it was illegal in many states for members of different races to date and marry.
In short, learned prejudices are not rational positions and evoke a response within the prejudiced individual that can't be supported outside of the irrational beliefs.
Experiential Prejudice
The third means of acquiring prejudice is through that of personal experiences. This is when a detrimental act or acts are perpetrated on an individual and the individual attributing a negative characteristic onto the group as a whole who were the perpetrators. For example: My ex-father-in-law hated all Japanese. He served in the Navy during World War II and was severely wounded by a Japanese kamikaze, which killed the rest of his gun crew. He took this hatred to his deathbed. His prejudice is attributed to an incident of negative outcome.
Experiential prejudice does have a core element of justification for the irrationally held belief. Many people learn to be prejudice against a certain group because it is necessary to be able to dehumanize them for survival. Often enemy combatants must be characterized in this way so that the natural prohibition against harming others is overcome.
The so-called reverse prejudice is always initially learned as an experientially prejudice. This is prejudice taken up by the minority against the majority who has dominance over the minority. This also happens when a ruling minority subjugates, in some manner, the numerical majority. This was most evident after the fall of Hussein's Iraq when sectarian violence sprang up between the ruling minority Sunnis and the subjugated majority of Shiites.
Although, there is a core element of truth to the acquired prejudice, it can and does have negative consequences to the holder of the prejudice as well as the group, at which the prejudice is directed.
Prejudice in any form is something that divides society and creates differentiation that is counterproductive to social order and functioning. All of us are guilty of having and holding prejudices. It takes a great deal of effort to rid oneself of such beliefs. Some find their prejudices like the old tattered overcoat that makes one feel warm and secure.
As we draw ever closer to the election this November, I would encourage all to search their inner most being and to evaluate whether or not your selection is based on something other than deeply held irrational prejudices. Search one's soul first before making your selection.
The Donny Show
1:06 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Any sentence that begins with, "to be honest" is never taken seriously.
The Donny Show
1:07 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
The biggest joke is Tammy Baldwin. She doesnt want this to be about lesbianism. Great. BUT she takes tens of millions from Gay Rights Groups who REALLY want her elected so they can trumpet her lesbianism. Makes NO sense to me. No sense at all.
Keith Schmitz
4:35 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
What the hell would you expect her to do? It would be political malpractice for her not to.
James R Hoffa
4:59 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@low life scum bag con artist Schmitzy -
It's also malpractice for you to renege on the fifty ($50) that you owe Hoffa!
H.E. Pennypacker
1:21 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
You forgot your prejudice against people who are smarter than you and worked harder than you who happen to be more wealthy than you.
John Wilson
11:44 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
H.E. Pennypacker -
Thank you for your fascinating and extraordinary comments.
The new DSM-V [Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders] is scheduled to be released in 2013, and we were searching for a nonprofessional's definition of the mental disorders, DELUSIONAL IDEATION and COGNITIVE DYSFUNCTION, to augment these sections of the manual.
Your post is exactly the type of narrative we desired to include. Therefore, we would kindly request your permission to include it; we would only be able to do that if you give us your permission, are legally mentally competent to sign a legal document – we would require certification of that from a court – and are not currently confined to a psychiatric facility…
If you think, you may want to have your fascinating comments memorialized in this prestigious and authoritative book, please just post your desire to have it included on the Patch and I will make sure you are contacted, psychiatrically examined, and given all the required paperwork, at no cost to you.
Thank you again for your fascinating and extraordinary comments.
James R Hoffa
2:05 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Lyle -
You forgot about the ideological prejudices against Ayn Rand that Paul Ryan is constantly being slammed with by the left.
2:49 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
I couldn't care less about that. But she was a horrible writer.
3:00 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
She may have been a horrible writer, but she certainly knew how to write a best seller...
Keith Schmitz
4:38 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Right Dung, proving once again that nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
In this case it was providing "intellectual" justification to cover greed in the minds of juveniles. A can't miss formula.
4:49 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
I guess you just answered Lyle's question about using one's real name. Some of you are willing to make such outlandish statements...
James R Hoffa
5:02 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@low life scum bag con artist Schmitzy -
And you apparently never went broke honoring your financial agreements, as you instead renege on them!
Where's Hoffa's fifty ($50) - it has been nearly 4 months now?!?!
6:19 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
I take exception to individuals claiming to be the moral gold standard of our country hypocritically embracing the teachings (gagging a little here) of proud atheist adulteress passport bride B-writer Social Security/Medicare moocher Ayn Rand. Either you support Christian beliefs or you don't. It's not something a true Christian cherry picks.
Steve ®
8:38 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Keith - pay your bet. Prove us all wrong that you are not a typical liberal scumbag.
10:15 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Bren is OK with someone embracing the teachings of Bill Ayers. Ayn Rand was a sci-fi author, Bill Ayers is a domestic terrorist.
5:00 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
What are you really saying, Bren? Are you suggesting that Christians cannot embrace the writings of an atheist? Should Christians also ignore Lyle's articles because of his non-Christian beliefs?
It sounds rather bigoted to judge a writer based on their religious beliefs or the lack thereof...
7:10 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I don't that Bill Ayers has coined a philosophy as Ayn Rand did, first called Existentialism, then Objectivism after she realized her first choice was already taken. I know we're now trying to dismiss Rand as a science fiction writer but that's not quite correct if you've thumbed through one of her screeds. This meme should only work on those who haven't read her books or have forgotten them since middle school.
I don't believe Mr. Ruble has created a new philosophy either. A few years ago my Onion horoscope told me I'd start a new philosophy or world religion but I haven't gotten to it yet. ; )
10:48 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I don't know that Bill Ayers was creative enough to "coin" anything, but William Ayers' forgotten communist manifesto: Prairie Fire, Political Statement of the Weather Undeground, was chocked full of philosophy.
Avenging Angel
3:19 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
So, if we don't vote for Obama, we couldn't possibly be opposed to his policies, rather, we are racist. Did I get that right, Lyle?
Lyle Ruble
4:19 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Avenging Angel...Just because you don't vote for Obama doesn't mean you're a racist. If the only reason for not voting for him is that he is a man of color, then that would make you a racist.
4:22 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
I suppose that would also apply to those who only voted for Obama because he is a man of color...
Keith Schmitz
4:36 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Not always, but certainly quite a lot Angel is a centerfold.
James R Hoffa
5:03 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@low life scum bag con artist Schmitzy -
And Schmitzy is a reneger who fails to pay his debts and obligations - such as Hoffa's fifty ($50)!
Hoffa's 'Detroit collection agency' is just a phone call away!
Bob McBride
7:41 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
What does it make you if your only reason for voting for him is that he is a man of color?
James R Hoffa
4:36 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Lyle -
Is Obama pandering to African Americans, in an unequal way in which he panders to other racial/ethnic groups for votes, considered racist?
4:45 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Hoffa -- I'm going to write to Barack Obama right away to suggest he make a video to promote 'Yoopers For Obama'. We mustn't leave anyone out.
James R Hoffa
4:53 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Randy1949 -
How do you think the MSM would react if Romney came out with a video promoting a White Americans for Romney targeted campaign strategy?
Hoffa's just expecting an equal standard be applied here, that's all - and what's so wrong with that?
5:01 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
So it has to be a YouTube video, rather than a group geared to specific sensitivities for the candidate? Because, as i brought to your attention, there are several of those for a variety of minorities in the Obama/Biden website. And here you claimed there were no Native Americans for Obama.
So how detailed would you like to get -- Left-handed Lithuanian-Americans For Obama?
5:03 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
"How do you think the MSM would react if Romney came out with a video promoting a White Americans for Romney targeted campaign strategy?"
Just like all the girls at Vassar being laid end to end -- I don't think they'd be a bit surprised.
James R Hoffa
5:09 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Randy1949 -
They'd be painting Romney as an extreme racist and you know it, whether you care to admit to it or not!
5:14 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Given that Barack Obama is just as much white as he is black, I'm not sure I get your point. Mitt has his Afro-Americans For Romney Facebook group.
James R Hoffa
5:31 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Randy1949 -
Mitt treats the races equally though in the way he campaigns towards them - if there's a facebook page for one, there's a facebook page for all.
Obama made a video solely targeting African Americans, and no other racial/ethnic groups. Why the special treatment for African Americans from a President who claims to value all Americans equally?
If you honestly can't see the difference...
John Wilson
12:48 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I think that if you gave White Americans 235+ years of slavery – embedded in the Constitution, "Whites are only 3/5 of a person" – physically abused them, economically deprived them, academically disadvantaged them, raped their women, hung, burnt, drowned, and simply killed them for looking at a tanned person; then, deprived them of the right to own land, to vote, instituted Jim Crow laws, now shoveled them off to ghettos of poverty, put up tremendous barriers to voting and obtaining meaningful employment; I would suspect that Whitey would have some valid reason to "come out with a video promoting a White Americans for Romney targeted campaign strategy."
In truth, that is what Willard's comment in Michigan, regarding "No one asked me for my birth certificate" comment was all about. His 47% comment was a classic in overt race-baiting code – which he now claims, "Was Completely Wrong" as he slithers to the middle; the radical right has given him permission to do so, as long as he defeats OBAMA!
However, even without this horrid 235+ year old history Whitey has created the KKK, and many White Supremacy groups, all, of course, supporting and voting for Willard.
Furthermore, Willard and his campaign has used all of their resources thus far – the new Charles Manson Party – to stir up racial hatred throughout this election, and you may expect his surrogates to be screaming NIGGER, at the top of their lungs, long before November 6 arrives.
1:05 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@John Wilson -- Years ago, discussing that current election with an African-American acquaintance, I heard a telling statement: "Growing up in Mississippi, we kind of got out of the habit of voting." I think that alone would be reason for an outreach to African-American voters in particular.
James R Hoffa
1:27 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@lyin' John Wilson & @Randy1949 -
That's the biggest crock of crap that Hoffa's heard all week!
And Hoffa supposes that Wilson favors paying reparations to African Americans, right? Or maybe we should just provide them all with free transportation back to Africa.
The only effective way at combating racism is to start treating everyone equally! By trying to make up for years of racist policy with preferential treatment, you're just continuing to stir up racial sentiments and prolonging the problem. Too bad you guys can't see or realize this!
You know who gets treated even worse than any racial groups in this country - people inflicted with albinism! And yet, Hoffa doesn't hear Wilson or Randy1949 out championing their cause for equal treatment from others!
Please, WAKE UP!!!
2:06 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@JRH -- Weren't you drawing conclusions about 'racism' based on the fact that you'd 'scoured the net' and couldn't find other minority group for Obama? And then I found three, right on the Obama website? I hope you scour your bathtub better than that.
James R Hoffa
2:28 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Randy1949 -
Where's the lofty speech and video announcement from Obama about the targeted campaign strategy towards those other groups?
Obama said that he treated all Americans equally in response to Romney's 47% comment, remember?
So, if that's true, where's the speech/video promoting White Americans for Obama, Asian Americans for Obama, Native Americans for Obama, Albino Americans for Obama, etc?
Doesn't appear to be very equal to Hoffa.
According to Obama, African Americans are worthy of his time and effort in giving a speech and making a video.
But not Latino Americans, Aboriginal Americans, Eskimo Americans, Hawaiian Americans, ...
Get it yet?
5:08 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Lyle, how do you explain the cultural pressure for blacks to vote againt their own self-interest and continue to support Democrats? Being the Democrats have supported policy that has destroyed initiative, incentive, the family unit, and the need for male father figures in general? Where moving on up in the world isn't a deluxe apartment in the sky, but qualifying for yet another government handout? We are talking generations of wasted human potential, Lyle.
Wouldn't you think more would take a chance on the Republicans, if for nothing else adopting the blind squirrel theory? 60 years of demonstrated Democrat failure is an eye-opening record, one would think.
James R Hoffa
5:32 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@GearHead -
Wasn't the "deluxe apartment in the sky" a public housing project?
5:40 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Hoffa -- You're confusing two different shows. George and Louise Jefferson made it good with their dry-cleaning business and moved into a nice apartment in New York City, after living next door to Archie Bunker for several years.
You're thinking of the family in Good Times, who lived in what might have been Cabrini Green.
Lyle Ruble
5:45 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@GearHead...I don't think that your comment accurately reflects the facts on the ground. I see a great deal of hyperbole in your statement. Both the Democrats and Republicans have contributed to the disenfranchisement of many. In the first place there are more working class white people receiving government benefits than people of color. The situation took a definite downturn during the Reagan Recession and Recovery. The Great Recession of 2008 has thrown even more people onto government assistance. Between these two events and the 30 years in between has adversely affected people found at the lowest end of the SES. There isn't enough jobs they can participate in. As far as blame goes, it can be shared equally by both political parties.
James R Hoffa
5:46 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Randy1949 -
Thanks for the clarification - Hoffa always gets those shows mixed up ;-)
5:20 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
While we all carry prejudice, I think your concern over the upcoming election is overblown. Most of us will follow King's vision and consider the content of the candidates' character. Having said that, prepare for the ugliest and most vile character assasination ever to be hatched out of Chicago politics: The vicious attact against Romney/Ryan for the next 30 days, of course. Will you be condeming the practice and calling for civility then? Because if you do, you too will be labled a racist.
Lyle Ruble
5:48 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@GearHead...I sincerely hope that you're wrong. Yes, I will call out those participating in racial slurs and accusations.
Steve ®
8:16 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
I hate Obama because he is a socialist liberal dictator. All liberals are a cancer on my freedom but this southern black white African hawaiian Indonesian racist dictator liar uses the race card anytime he gets into trouble. And liberal fools like Lyle buy into it every time. They even write meaningless articles on the Internet trying to mask their own prejudices.
Lyle Ruble
8:49 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
@Steve...Thanks for your honesty. There can't be any doubt of where your prejudices and bigotry lays. Also, if my articles are so meaningless, why do you waste your time in reading them and commenting on them?
Steve ®
9:15 pm on Friday, October 5, 2012
Oh I don't read your socialist drivel, my brain is cancer free.
Brian Carlson
1:28 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Steve you couldn't get through two sentences without showing your racism, ethnocentricism and political fundamentalism.
Steve ®
2:48 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
You couldn't get through one calling a conservative a racist.
5:33 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Steve, just remember that according to Barney Rubble and the rest of the extreme left, only the conservatives are prejudiced. That keep squawking that over, and over, and over! Nothing new here folks, move along!
Lyle Ruble
7:55 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Bob McBride....I don't care about the debate and the fact that Obama had his head handed to him. We all must make our decision based on how we see the facts and not some manipulation to cloud the issues. My life isn't going to be substantively changed no matter who wins the presidency. I think most will fall into that same category. My concern is what is the lame duck congress going to do with the fiscal cliff looking us in the face on 1/1/13.
Bob McBride
9:45 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
"We all must make our decision based on how we see the facts and not some manipulation to cloud the issues."
How is this article anything other than a manipulation designed to cloud the issues as it relates to the upcoming elections?
As for seeing the facts, it's very evident that people see the "facts" differently and that effects the degree to which many claimed "facts" can even be categorized as such. That's the true effect of prejudice as it relates to decision making and it's not limited to the simplistic versions everyone is familiar with. All of us hold prejudices developed in large part as a result of our personal upbringing and life experiences, rather than being defaults automatically ascribed to us as the result of being born into a particular racial, sexual, ethnic, religious or economic category.
This is the point many on the left seem to miss completely. They're so concerned about identifying and categorizing groups of individuals and assigning pluses and minuses to being associated with those groups that they miss out on the individual aspects that truly make a person what he or she is. They're effectively doing the same thing that they revile in others. Categorizing based on stereotypes, albeit ones developed under the guise of educated research. That's every bit as prejudicial as is making blanket statements about people of a particular race, ethnicity, sexual preference or religion.
Brian Dey
8:58 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Lyle- Sorry, but most of this piece is again slanted one way and with some inaccuracies. I'll point to your paragraph in dealing with reverse prejudice. You see, there were as amny, or more of the populous, admitted to voting for Obama because he was a black man. They felt the country needed to vote for Obama to finally show that this country had moved past racism. If that is the case, it is just prejudice than the white person that didn't vote for Obama because he's black. There is absolutely no difference. Prejudice is prejudice.
But I will submit to you that Obama and Bien both show prejudices in their body language and dialect when in a room full of African-Americans. Speaking in a heavy southern-drawl, accusing the "man" of holding them down. Biden did so in a recent speech, and one only needs to see the video put out by the Daily Caller of Obama speaking to an all black crowd in New Orleans which pitted the "man" against victims of Hurrican Katrina.
Or how about the ads in all blck neighborhoods to get on government assistance. Or the vans pulling up in all black neighborhoods to give out free cell phones.
No, you conveniently omit these from your piece and are all hard facts that racism exists in the White House.
Bob McBride
9:59 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
White prejudice against other races can be explained with one word - racism. Explaining black prejudice against other races requires traversing a convoluted path paved with lefty rationalizations back to white racism. Implicit in those rationalizations is an attempt to deflect attention away from their own innate fear and misunderstanding of others and to lay blame at the feet, as usual, of those on the right.
The correct explanation is that within each race, economic segment, religion and nationality you're going to find prejudice against those outside the group. It's human nature. It's always been there and it always will be there. It can be shamed away to an extent, it can be made unacceptable by societal and political pressures, but it will always be there.
We're all human, equally capable of having the same set of faults and qualities. Someone truly interested in equality would argue that point, rather than trying to excuse one segment of the population based on stretching logic to the snapping point. The question is, why would someone do so? The answer is to justify government functions designed to compensate for and correct the imbalance implicit in following that convoluted path.
Lyle Ruble
2:14 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Brian Dey....What is called reverse racism, is in fact racism and a learned prejudice. It cannot exist outside of the initial racism of the first cause and is a logical effect. Unlike first cause racism, it is understandable, although it is just as destructive to social order. Only by meaningful dialog and interaction can racism be erased. I point you to the US Military and the success they have achieved in making racism a non-issue. They adopted a zero tolerance forty years ago and it has done wonders in the elimination of the problem.
I cannot comment on how many people voted for Obama in 2008 simply because he was a person of color. If Hillary Clinton had been the Democratic candidate and won the general election; I guess the same claim could be made about why she had won the election, people only voted for her because she was the first woman. I don't think you have sufficient proof to make such a claim.
As far as Obama and Biden or Bill Clinton, for that matter, speaking to specific segments of the electorate in language they understand; how is that different than George W. Bush speaking Tex/Mex Spanish to Latino voters. The donors meeting that was videoed of Romney speaking to wealthy donors can also be speaking in a language of the group.
Your statement about ads in African American neighborhoods informing them of program availability is not out of line. They have to get the message out someway. Your statement about cell phones, means what?
James R Hoffa
2:50 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Lyle -
How exactly are you defining the term 'reverse racism?' 'Reverse racism' only exists in government and in those who feel racially guilty and compelled to the point to take affirmative action against perceived racism.
In reality, there is no such thing as secondary or post-initial racism - something is either racially prejudiced or isn't. Any kind of affirmative action is originally racist in and of itself - there's no getting around this or spinning it with liberal bs.
The only way to effectively combat racism is to stop trying!
Lyle Ruble
4:08 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Bob McBride....In the first place, where did I call out the political right or whites? I simply pointed out that all prejudice is illogical, even if it is part of our nature to be prejudicial. The process of cultural assimilation teaches us to overcome our basic nature to live in society. Using your logic, then we would have to accept murder as a proper and logical means for solving problems.
My logic concerning the accumulation of experiential prejudice is straight forward and isn't convoluted. Your claim that I am trying to justify reverse prejudice is wrong, in as much as, it is understandable in light of cause and effect. However, since prejudice cannot be justified, whether first cause or secondary response, then all prejudice must be illogical. Therefore, anyone who practices unwarranted prejudice is not only wrong, but is immoral. To use reverse prejudice as justification to continue prejudice is illogical and immorally wrong.
People who continue to accuse Obama of reverse prejudice since a majority of African Americans, a majority of women, and a majority of Latinos support him; must necessarily accuse all three groups are also guilty of reverse prejudice. It would appear that the majority of those claiming reverse prejudice are in fact being prejudicial themselves. Where is the logic in that.
Lyle Ruble
4:36 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@JRH...To deny the existence of reverse racism is to be the fool. You can't simply wish away a societal value nor can you deny four centuries of history. There are distinct groups that are not fully assimilated into society, including people of color and Native Americans. The research completed by the social science disciplines confirm the existence of the prejudices that I am referring to.
With your implicit support of people like AWD, you have outed yourself. As far as white guilt, does that mean we shouldn't accept responsibility for what has happened and that we shouldn't attempt to change the present and the future to eliminate the ugly stain our ancestors committed? I would like to have a meaningful conversation about reparations, there is a good argument for such. Forty acres and a mule never did happen.
Bob McBride
4:39 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
From the above:
"The so-called reverse prejudice is always initially learned as an experientially prejudice. This is prejudice taken up by the minority against the majority who has dominance over the minority. This also happens when a ruling minority subjugates, in some manner, the numerical majority. This was most evident after the fall of Hussein's Iraq when sectarian violence sprang up between the ruling minority Sunnis and the subjugated majority of Shiites. "
This argument is oftentimes used to justify black prejudice. You don't have to look any further than the comment section of this blog to see it used in such a fashion by one particularly delusional lefty.
It's BS. Prejudice is prejudice and it's a natural outgrowth of human nature - the grouping of "likes" for protective purposes against outsiders. One group's prejudice is neither more understandable nor is it more acceptable simply because of some convoluted explanation of how it came to exist involving "initial" prejudices and resultant, reactionary prejudices. You can't blame the prejudices of one group on those of another and expect to be able to address the subject successfully, any more than you'd accept the "well he did it first!" excuse of a child and incorporate that into a successful resolution of conflict between children.
Do you believe some whites voted in 2008 as they did because Obama was black? If so, you're holding Brian to a different standard (above) than you do yourself.
James R Hoffa
4:57 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Lyle -
Again, how are you defining the term 'reverse racism'? What is 'reverse racism' in Lyle's mind/world? How is it different from what you refer to as 'original racism'?
Hoffa merely supports some of the points that AWD makes - that does not make Hoffa a racist.
And why should anyone be held accountable for the sins of their father? Under your logic, all the chidren of criminals should also be locked up for their father's/mother's crimes, and also held civilly liable to the victims of such crimes, even if they had nothing to do with it, right?
If you truly want to end racism, then the best way is to stop trying to combat it! Combatting it only acts to continue to stir the pot!
Lyle Ruble
4:58 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Bob McBride....The continuance of prejudices once the individual is aware of such prejudices is illogical. To acquire a prejudice through experience is no more valid than acculturated prejudice, just more understandable.
I don't know any whites who voted for Obama just because he was black. I can't speak for all of those who voted for him. Therefore, your question is unanswerable.
Bob McBride
5:05 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Are you claiming to know there are whites who voted against Obama because he is black? Are you even suggesting that? And if so, how can you logically differentiate that from Brian's claim that there are blacks who voted for Obama because he's black?
If the answer to everything is you don't know and you can't offer proof one way or the other, nor can anyone else, then what's the point of this article, other than you just speculating on a bunch of stuff?
Lyle Ruble
5:24 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@JRH....You can't be serious about not combating racism or prejudice. You can't change society and make it just by just ignoring the truth, but that sounds like what you want to do.
The agreement with AWD is dangerous at best. He is explicit in his desire to go to war in defense against the evil others.
Lyle Ruble
5:49 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Bob McBride....I know that there were some whites that I know admitted that they didn't vote for Obama because he was black. I don't know any blacks who stated they voted for him because he was black. Beyond that I don't know. However, the piece that I wrote was directed against using prejudice as a deciding factor in how one votes. If a black is voting for another black just because they are black, it's just as wrong as a white not voting for someone other than a white.
Bob McBride
6:40 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
So other than your knowledge of some folks who didn't vote for Obama because he was black, you don't really have anything else to support the rest of the conclusions you've come to above, including the one you've come to regarding Brian's suggestion that there are black people who voted for Obama because he is black.
Lyle Ruble
7:00 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@Bob McBride...I am not particularly deterred by your comment. If you go back to my original post; I don't think that I singled out any particular prejudice, but others are determined to make it racial prejudice. I used as an example of racial prejudice since most are familiar with the issue.
Bob McBride
7:25 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I wouldn't expect you to be deterred. If your point is that some, or even most, people cast votes based on personal prejudices, I don't think anyone would argue with you. You used race as an example, you referenced the upcoming election and you included (or someone included for you) a picture of the two presidential candidates. If folks came to that conclusion and it was an erroneous conclusion, you may wish to revisit the way you structured and presented your original post.
I'm not really buying it, to be honest. I think this is yet another attempt, convoluted as it may be, to suggest that people who vote for Romney are doing it based on racial preference or fear or stupidity or gullibility - anything but his qualifications and character. I'm not surprised to see it, frankly. I think there's been a concerted attempt ever since Wednesday's thrashing of Obama by Romney to inject anything and everything but the obvious into the discussion surrounding the upcoming election - the obvious being that Romney is every bit the worthy opponent of Obama and that he has the capability to attract those in the middle who've yet to make up their minds. Obama's supporters were completely caught off guard, as was Obama himself, and now we're seeing a scramble to deflect, distract and denigrate Romney and those who support him in any way possible.
John Taxthepoor
9:16 am on Saturday, October 6, 2012
I just hate all liberals and their policies that promote slavery for a vote. Irresponsibility, rampant single mothering, abortion, and love of criminals. Not to metion asking people to get a job for welfare benefits. My hate covers all spectrums, race, sex, sexuality. and religion. PHFFFFT!
John Wilson
9:00 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
John Taxthepoor -
You have just described the GOP!
You must be a really happy person to be around...
oak creek resident
3:30 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Prejudices will be in full force, just like they were in 2008, with blacks voting 98% for Obama.
oak creek resident
3:37 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Lyle is just like Obama and many blacks - he hates white people and has MAJOR white guilt.
I wish the laws of nature were active in our society, liberal twats like Lyle would die out in a generation or two.
Lyle Ruble
4:50 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
@oak creek resident....I don't have any self hate or is my guilt dysfunctional. BTW, the laws of nature are active in our society. Since it is hunting season, are you suggesting that it should be open season on liberals? I don't know about you, but my genetic and philosophical legacies are already realized.
oak creek resident
11:33 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Lyle, laws of nature are not active at all. In fact, it is the opposite. The ignorant have more kids than the educated, vote Democrat for more government cheese and handouts, and it is all supported by liberals like you in order to increase the democratic voter population.
You can try to skew it some other way, but it is a fact. Dems would rather have most of america poor and ignorant, rather than affluent and conservative. Pretty disgusting.
oak creek resident
11:34 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Laws of nature would dictate that the lazy and ignorant get off their arses, clean up, dress respectfully, speak English, get educMAcated, and get a job. Or, go hungry and die.
Now I guess you'll argue against that?
John Wilson
1:19 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Oak creek resident –
(aka: Southern Boy)
9 of the 10 worst states for children are Southern Republican... Jul 28, 2010...
Southern Republican states are 9 of the 10 worst states for childhood...
Red = GOP carried state in all 4 most recent presidential elections (1996, 2000, 2004, 2008).
Here are the 9 masterful achievers: Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, West Virginia, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi.
Additionally, GOP = Red states collect the most food stamps and likes its voters uneducated and stupid like sheep.
Yes, oak creek resident, I really do understand exactly what a highly educated person as you are attempting to convey…except, except, ALL THE FACTS ARE AGAINST YOU!
oak creek resident
2:41 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
@ John Wilson
Simple people only see the surface, like you. Of those people on welfare, food stamps, etc, what % vote for Obama?
Oh, that's right, so STFU.
Brian Dey
6:38 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Lyle- As the infamous Bart Simpson would sa; "What a load of crappy, crap, crap!" Your hearsay is no proof of white racism regarding Obama's election. I believe that there may have been, but I know from video evidence that certain black sectors that some blacks only voted for Obama because he's black and would "give them stuff."
We also can ascertain from the unusually high turn out of black voters in 2008, most who have never voted before, that Obama' being black was a primary factor.
We also know by his actions, that Obama is a racist in the comments I made before.
I didn't hear Romney go into a southern drawl when he spoke to the NAACP Convention earlier this year. And we didn't hear him pander to their fears of the white man like Biden did.
You have made several twisted attempts at labelling all conservatives as racist, all TEA Party members as racist, and anybody voting Republican as racist. And this is all from hearsay with no other proof.
The liberal agenda is purely racist in it assumes that blacks need to sit next to whites to get an education; that without affirmative action, blacks would fail; and that rich white folks have been holding down blacks. Those go to the very meaning of racism and I dare you to find such social put-downs in the Romney - Ryam plans.
Lyle Ruble
7:07 pm on Saturday, October 6, 2012
Brian Dey....OK Brian, what's your point? You want to call Obama and all liberals as racists, how does that change the metric? White racism has been alive and well in American Society for centuries and studies indicate it still exists. I can't believe you'd quote something from the Simpsons, which probably reflects the depth of your knowledge on the subject.
Quite simply, do you support, overtly or covertly, racism?
oak creek resident
2:40 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Look at the way Lyle only plays one side of that card. It points to the fact that Lyle obviously supports racism so long as it helps democrats.
Lyle we don't need to defend ourselves against the very tactics that you and other liberals use.
Brian Dey
7:18 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I don't support any racism, and you know that from my past article on this topic. Put to put out one side as being racist without pointing out the others is disingenuous. And then to go further and excuse racism for a certain sector that happens to align with your political views is downright dishonest.
I'm sorry Lyle, but Obama has been and still is running a campaign based on prejudice. Pitting certain segments of society against another is just as divisive than overt racism, and from the language in his speeches to black audiences, it is far more than just speaking to thm in their own language (which happens to be English), than Bush speaking Spanish to a crowd that truly speaks a different language. All politicians on some level pander, but usually to be inclusive; not divisive. Again, Obama and Biden seem to reflect the latter as apparent by the angry tone that goes along with it.
Your argument just doesn't hold water until you can admit the above. And the load of crappy, crap, crap comment reflects the pure b.s. you try passing off as intellect. Racism, is racism. Be it black, white ,Democrat or Republican. So let me quote it another way, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
Lyle Ruble
8:47 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
@Brian Dey....Prejudice is a funny thing; one person's facts are another person's spin. You are confusing the acquisition of prejudice with an apology for one type of racism. I clearly stated that culturally acquired and experientially acquired prejudice are both destructive to society and order.
I don't understand your focus on the concept of "divide and conquer" rather than speaking to the concerns of an identifiable group. In theory, there isn't a singularity of what an American is or represents. We are a nation of many special interests, that routinely come into conflict. I see Obama speaking to the concerns of people who are at different positions of the SES. You claim that Romney is speaking to all Americans; but, those that have a certain sensitivity and awareness, perceive his message as speaking only to those who aren't part of the 47%. In his way, he is also speaking of the division of groups, but he's speaking to the "haves verses the have nots". Whereas, Obama is addressing concerns of social injustice; Romney is addressing maintaining the status quo and/or returning to a time of perceived social order that favors the conservative view where structural social injustice was the rule rather than the exception. If you didn't realize it yet, but chronic social injustice creates anger.
You deal with my presentation as B.S. simply because you can't seem to get your mind around the concepts I have presented.
7:28 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
We never hear it discussed but any party that simply votes FOR a politician as well as against is practicing racism. Yes this does pertains to the left as well as the right. Many people vote for Obama simply because he is black and they have no idea what he stands for or against. Let's hear how the lefties try to spin this one.
Lyle Ruble
8:55 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
@Mike....How is preferring one candidate over another racism? Racism is only one type of prejudice. What about voting for someone simply because they are labeled as a conservative or liberal? Or, voting for someone because they hold certain values that you agree with; is that prejudicial? If you don't vote for Baldwin because she is a woman or you don't vote for Thompson because of his age; is that prejudicial? What about religious affiliation; do you think that the most Mormons will be voting for Romney? Is that prejudicial? I don't think people vote for anyone without exercising some type preferential standard.
John Wilson
3:53 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Mike –
NOW you tell me… President Obama is black… I only see an Anglo-Saxon, intelligent, JOB-CREATOR (think 7.8 here), elected after the most mind-numbing, language mangling, stupidest president in the entire history of the Republic… that would be the faith-based, neocon King George…
Brian Dey
10:55 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
As usual, Lyle tries to portray some middle ground to advance his ridiculous theories. While your initial article didn't show the bias, your comments that followed did. I simply can't read this crap anymore. You have shown that you are exactly what you are trying to portray others.
Lyle Ruble
11:22 am on Sunday, October 7, 2012
@Brian Dey....The thread was not about racism until some folks on the right took off on that. My comments to them were specific to which they wrote. You initially accused me of slanting the article toward the right, but I didn't. It was the people on the right that took up the racial gauntlet attempting to prove that Obama is a racist as well as me. Now you have reached an impasse and you wish to not continue further. That's fine, but the issue is far from closure.
Brian Dey
8:50 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Lyle- I want to assure you that either side of the aisle that makes racial overtones will not be tolerated by me. I do not think you're a racist, but I do believe you are more tolerant, or at least turn a blind-eye to it when it comes from the left.
I will not make excuses for either candidate when it comes to racism or prejudices. My point is, not Obama the candidate, but Obama as President, is being extremely divisive. Whether you want to call it pandering or something else, almost everything he has proposed, claimed executive order on, or policy claim he's made, has been divisive.
Pitting one class against another, blaming someone else four years later, or putting on the "I can speak to you like I'm a black from the south act" is not getting things done. We need a leader that is going to accept or take responsibility for his own actions, try to find common ground, and get the job done. He is not doing that and the tactics he is using are only pulling people further apart.
It all goes back to what I said when he was a primary candidate. He doesn't have the experience to lead.
patchreader 123
12:17 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
How does "selective perception" relate to the below video? What is sought and/or accomplished through the use of dialect (particularly as utilized within the last minute of the video)?
Such dialect is curiously absent when addressing the United Nations.
I detest prejudice. However, how does the foregoing help to eliminate it?
patchreader 123
12:18 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Furthermore, I also find it curious that you detest prejudice (rightly so) while nonetheless relentlessly engaging in purely partisan rhetoric (i.e., left vs. right; red vs. blue; conservative vs. liberal). Prejudice transcends party lines, while purely partisan rhetoric ignores the fact that many issues are not party specific.
You thus appear to detest the subject while reinforcing the mechanism that fails to diminish it.
Lyle Ruble
12:53 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
@patchreader 123....My original intent was to call out all the prejudicial rhetoric that was building on various threads. I did not make it partisan and wrote about the acquisition of prejudice. On the comments the usual suspects started in on their racial agenda and some of it is pretty ugly. I don't know what you expect me to do, but I responded to those unjust accusations. Just like NObama 2012's comment just above. How can that not be interpreted as just blatant racism? Should he be called out on it or not? And, if not, why not?
patchreader 123
1:47 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Yes, much of the comments illustrate blatant racism; and I have voiced my opposition to it with my past comments. And yes, your article was, in itself, not partisan. However, you yourself (as well as many other bloggers and commenters) appear to be entirely partisan.
Our nation has been rendered almost a "failed state" by partisan gridlock. Nowhere is bi-partisanship mandated within the U.S. Constitution. And as an acquired form of "check and balance," it has outgrown its usefulness and mutated into nothing more than a diversion from the aristocracy created by and serving certain life-long politicians. Through the fiscal policies of BOTH parties, be it Clinton's deregulation of financial services, Bush II's unpaid-for wars or Medicare prescription drug programs, or Obama's spending on green energies, this country has been steered to the point of bankruptcy. We have also seen an erosion of civil liberties under both parties as well.
My point is that both partisan-driven rhetoric and prejudice do nothing more than create divisiveness within an already contentious, political environment. So, how can you detest one form of divisiveness while regularly engage in another? That is my simple question in response to your article.
Lyle Ruble
2:50 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
@patchreader 123....We do live in a divisive period. If one looks back to previous periods of unrest and economic downturns, it seems that the ugliest comes out in people. They want to blame this person or group or that person or group for the ensuing chaos of social change. From my perspective, what we are experiencing now is the culmination of three or more decades of simmering resentment and unfulfilled expectations. By my writings have I contributed to the divisiveness, obviously I have, even though I have wanted to share different perspectives. As an observer of the social environment I am looking at the social forces at play. Are a number of them uncomfortable, yes they are. In my own view, political parties do a great disservice to this nation. It becomes to easy to become polarized. My own understanding and life experience has led me to draw certain conclusions, but there isn't a political party that I can easily identify with. I vote for the candidate and I am not locked into one or the other because of party affiliation. I would hope that most people are the same way. Obama nor Romney was my first choice, he was eliminated early in the Republican Primary process.
The period between now and the election is sure to bring out the worst in some and I'm not looking forward to it. If I continue to write as I have, I will be pelted with one ad hominem attack after another. That is my choice and the consequences of my positions and so be it.
oak creek resident
11:30 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Notice how limp wrist Lyle did not address the videos you mentioned? It's because he can't.
oak creek resident
2:42 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Giving me away? You might think I post under more than one name, but I do not. I really don't care what you think, to be honest.
Steve ®
12:45 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
The party of tolerance hides behind Obama to mask their true prejudice.
The Donny Show
2:24 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
Every single person who voted for Obama BECAUSE he was black is racist. There were millions that did that.
Brian Carlson
11:21 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Donny Show.... May we infer then that the whites voting for whites have all been racists, or the fact that, until this past election, black candidates would not have had a chance to win, implies that the country is predominantly racist, that institutionalized racism has ruled out, until this past election, a black contender, let alone President? Assuming you are white, from your statement above, may we assume as well that you did not vote for Obama but voted for a white man and white woman and that millions of whites did the same? Is this as logical as your statement?
oak creek resident
11:39 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Ignorant comments from a dunce who cannot do math.
SO all of a sudden all these racist people in America decided to magically not be racist, and vote Obama? LOLOLOL
You do realize how foolish you sound, don't you? And you need to go to such lengths, as you posted, in order to try to point the finger on the other side?
We all may infer from your posting that you have a low iq and live in a cave.
Lyle Ruble
3:36 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
@oak creek resident....Based on the statement that The Donny Show stated; Brian's statement is perfectly logical. I know you have trouble getting past your emotive responses, but he did not use a convoluted logic. Therefore, your statement about Brian's I.Q. is unwarranted and is simply, as usual, an ad hominem attack. I don't know, he may live in a cave, do you have proof?
Bob McBride
4:36 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Actually, Lyle, no it's not. Donny's statement was that anyone who voted for Obama specifically because he is black is racist. Brian attempts to infer from circumstances and votes placed after the fact a reason for the casting of votes in a certain fashion. Two entirely different situations.
The Donny Show
11:29 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
That is a lot of assumptions Brian. I have idea what it says.
My point is simple. There were millions of blacks who stated they voted for Obama BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK. If the opposite were true and people said they didnt vote for Obama BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK, we would have the accomplice media pissing in their pants with excitement and zeal. Both of the statements above are racist. Simple and to the point. It is racist to vote for some because they are black.
If whites vote for whites BECAUSE they are white, that is racist.
oak creek resident
11:35 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Donny, don't waste your time. As a racist himself, Brian is only going to skew it so that whites are racist. Just like liberal policymaking - only a black can be a victim of a hatecrime.
Brian Carlson
7:27 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I didnt make the assumptions Donny. You did. I used your logic to see what else it would infer.
Lyle Ruble
3:37 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
@oak creek resident...Where is your proof that Brian is a racist?
Brian Carlson
7:33 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Brian Who is a racist? Me? What in hell are you talking about? Conservatives, particularly those touchy about race issues claim that white people must be anti-white if they expose racism on the part of whites. This is a knee jerk attitude I hear and also hear the same move if an American says anything critical of American policy....I must be anti- American. I am getting very tired of such simplistic thinking. The fact is, if you are bothered by hearing a white person criticize whites you are probably insecure for some reason. If you are bothered by an American criticizing American policy...again, you are probably insecure. If you have to say, in response to this, well there are black racists too.... I agree..there are black racists....so what? This doesnt make white racism where it occurs better nor does it justify it. The same with negative aspects about American policy. You dont have to jump to...well so and so does this too...as if it justifies American misbehavior.
oak creek resident
9:24 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Because he blindly attributes that anyone who decides not to vote for Obama is a racist. Nothing worse than an liberal idiot who throws around the race card so quickly.
oak creek resident
7:47 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
How about the entire premise of his blog? Again, why not look at the extreme example of the black voting trends?
Brian Carlson
7:25 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Nobama are you a white suprematist? You are a liar. Obama never said this.....pure bullshit. Yo
You words are racist and bigoted and you know it and are aparently proud of this massive ignorance.
oak creek resident
9:23 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Brian how dare you say Nobama's statements are offensive, when you sit here with your ignorant and arrogant liberal smarmy idiocy and claim most of america is racist?
Again - you are an idiot.
Dirk Gutzmiller
9:43 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Nobama - You are an incredible liar. Go ahead and give us the page number on that, and why you put the quote in quotation marks. Disgusting display of any kind of fairness, and I note no ultraconservative even comes to the defense of your chicanery. Only the hopelessly pathetic "oak creek resident" even crawls out from his hole.
Brian Carlson
7:27 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
I would personally like to see the conservatives who may be anti-Obama but clearly see the extremism and destructiveness of Nobamas statements clearly distance yourself from his remarks. Certainly you dont agree with this nonsense nor can you see it as constructive dialogue in a challenging political season?
Born Free
8:19 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
The Democrates and their President Xerxes have overseen the execution of 2+ million NON black future friends and neighbors via abortion just counting only from the time Obama chaired ACORN. Now,...who's the racist party and racist President?
Just in the last 4 years alone the elitist Democrat party has overseen the genocide of close to 2 million black future friends and neighbors via abortion. Democracy or tyranny?
Then there's also the countless American dollars sent to foreign countries for abortions by Hillary Clinton.
Less then 1/2 of 1% of the abortions in the U.S. are preformed on women who are actually in a life or death situation.
Inventing any excuse to try to justify the insanity doesn't ever change the end result - - murder, murder of an unborn future friend or neighbor and whoever.
You Democrates, progressives, leftists, socialists, Communists, dictator's, Fabians, intillectuals, cosmopolitan avant garde, elitist liberal racists have reached a level that rivals barbaric ancient civilizations. "You've come along way, baby".
If you really care about womens rights you'd actually end rape
Since the Democrates love slinging around the word "Democracy" as if they actually believe in it then why not give the unborn future friends and neighbors Democracy too?
*Stats from: CDC, Life Education and Resource Network (LEARN), the largest African-American pro-life group in the country, Guttmacher Institute.
Lyle Ruble
7:34 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
@Born Free...You've got to be kidding, comparisons with an ancient Persian ruler. No one in this nation is forced to have an abortion. It's all about choice, not restriction of options. Is this your attempt to inject religion into the discussion?
Brian Carlson
7:49 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
BF, what is the "non-black" code supposed to do...? Soften the impact of saying that your concern is for WHITES? Do you not care about aborted black future friends and neighbors? Put your cards on the table. Unless I am wrong and you intended all the offspring of other non black races along with the whites....oh but that still leaves the black friends out, doesn't it. Please clarify...what you wrote could be understood as a white suprematist rant. Xerxes.... How about Darius? At least our leader recognizes his citizens equality.
Born Free
8:29 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
One more thing:
Voting fraud disenfranchizes everyone!
Brian Carlson
7:39 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
OCR... Find two people in this thread who do not self identify as racists and who agree with you that I have expressed anything in this or any other blog that is racist in content. Find one who agrees that I said that anyone who votes against Obama is racist. Your thinking is very skewed, illogical and extremist.
oak creek resident
7:45 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Brian, you and the rest of the liberal world believes that anyone against obama is a racist. You see political pundits stating this as fact every day, as ridiculous as it sounds.
You and lyle are racists, plain and simple. You sit there and wonder about whites not voting for obama, but how about NO blacks willing to vote for Romney. Talk about missing the larger picture.
John Wilson
11:26 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
oak creek resident –
IF, in fact, it were true that "NO blacks were willing to vote for Romney" that would prove that the entire black race had more intelligence, knowledge, political sophistication, and futuristic insight than another race in America…
However, because the "NO blacks were willing to vote for Romney" came about as a zero percentage from a bogus poll, and we have the 2 outliers Mr.999 & Alan West, we can only say that 99.9999999% of all blacks exceed all other races in America…
oak creek resident
8:17 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
@John Wilson
So why is there a huge achievement gap in all stages of life, if the black community is so much smarter for not voting for Romney? You really area stooge, just pathetic.
John Wilson
10:27 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
oak creek resident –
Think about unequal access to opportunities for more than a nanosecond…
oak creek resident
7:43 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Watch how Obama's sons are behaving, knowing that liberals like Brian and Lyle make excuses for their behavior. These animals are emboldened by the constant race baiting of the liberals. Lyle and Brian, and people like them, are partially to blame for what you see below:
Had this been a group of whites attacking a black teacher, the NAACP and all the rest of the democrats would be on TV 24/7.
Brian Carlson
7:57 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Or a black man dragged behind a truck on a chain until his body fell apart.... You see OCD, I don't like it when anyone is mugged, beaten, tortured or killed. I don't like black on black violence, black on white, white on black, white on white....or any other permutation. Violence is cancer and violent people act like rogue cells in the body of this world, killing other cells and potentially killing the whole. They have come very close. You see the world, to go by every one of your statements, as an , "it's them or us," sort of fear ridden proposition. Maybe I over estimate you. Maybe it's an " it's them or me," view you espouse. Whatever.... I see the world as a "they ARE us," scenario and if my right hand picks up a gun and blows my left hand off, I count this as unwise.
oak creek resident
8:51 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
As usual you miss the point of the statement, Brian. Read my 3rd paragraph.
oak creek resident
8:55 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
And if you believe its "they ARE us", then by all means take a stroll west of the I sometime around 11 pm. See what your liberal "sensibilities" get you. Let the laws of natural selection take full affect.
Brian Carlson
8:31 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
AWD, if you are the poster child for the Republican Party, "civilized society," and evolved life forms, Obama doesn't need to even pack a toothbrush. He can stroll across the finish line.
Keith Best
8:40 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
We don't care if Tammy Baldwin is a lesbian or a woman candidate. We care that she has more in common with Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez than the people of Wisconsin.
Now as far as the race issue, Artur Davis and Congressman Allan West are more capable to be president than Obama. They are leaders.
oak creek resident
8:53 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Ahh but Keith, liberals like Brian and Lyle, and most certainly the democrats in congress, call people like Allan West, or Condi Rice, "uncle toms" and even worse.
They are the true racists. Again, they won't address this issue.
John Wilson
11:23 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Keith Best –
An amoeba has more of a capacity to lead than both Artur Davis and Allan West…
Dirk Gutzmiller
9:49 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
It really makes one wonder if Patch has lost control letting oak creek resident in his blatantly racist comments continue, when civil comments that counter this kind of hate are censored.
John Wilson
8:13 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Craig, et al-
"NoBama's comment was flagged, obviously by more than a few people.
It was clearly over the line. There is rude and callous remarks, and then there is what he posted. I believe in freedoms, just not one that can incite riots."
I think I completely missed the comments that you a referencing here. [Probably good that I missed them.]
While I suspect that, in general, I do agree with you, as a Vet and strong supporter of the Constitution and one who clearly believes in free speech – and the few exceptions that the Supreme Court has carved out, such as screaming FIRE in a crowded theatre – I really do not believe in censorship of free speech.
I do understand that this is a blog and we all must function under the TOS of the Patch, which does, in fact, mean censorship.
I do not condone nor do I appreciate much of the coarse, innuendoes, prejudicial – racial or otherwise – vulgar, insensitive and blood-boiling comments on the Patch, but we do live in a democracy and a democracy in which we clearly almost worship FREE SPEECH, and we should. Once we start tampering with that, on a blog or in any public forum, I just like to know where it ends…
I understand that my comments here will not change the TOS of the Patch or probably anyone's opinion, however, I just needed to say it, someone should…
Brian Carlson
10:17 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
You should read Nobamas crap on my blog in saukville. maybe he is the same pathetic person. It's pure hate speech. The only reason to allow it is to allow people to see exactly what Lyle suggested...that there definitely is a serious racist factor in the elections. race is a factor and the silent conservatives listening tonfellow conservatives who truly are expressing blatant racist thoughts... Should, I think, dissociate themselves from these extremists...they should speak out against this hateful ignorance.
10:24 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Brian: I will speak up. I am conservative. I dislike Obama because he (IMO) sucks as a US President. The color of his skin has nothing to do with my opinion of him. Neither does his faith or Nationality. Sometimes I may sound like a Redneck, but I do not believe playing the hate card, or race card helps anyone.
This whole comment thread has taken a turn that makes me sick, have we as human beings not evolved at all?
My guess is this falls on deaf ears.
Bob McBride
10:36 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Why should anyone have to dissociate themselves from anyone else? The folks you have a problem with speak for themselves. I could point to a couple of race-baiting, hate-mongering lefties that speak for themselves as well. I don't automatically associate you, Lyle or any of the others on the left with them. I also don't see you guys criticizing any of them for their outlandish comments.
If you don't like someone's comments, use the "Flag" link and if Patch agrees with your assessment, they'll no doubt pull the comment. Your other options are to ignore them or take them on yourself. Don't try to drag others into your drama.
10:39 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
NoBama's comment was flagged, obviously by more than a few people.
It was clearly over the line. There is rude and callous remarks, and then there is what he posted. I believe in freedoms, just not one that can incite riots.
10:42 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Bob: The comment was borderline criminal. I understand your point, but sometimes we have to man up do the right thing. (regardless of what the other side does)
Bob McBride
10:55 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
If it's been flagged multiple times and its still there (I'm not even sure which comment you're referring to) then either Patch hasn't gotten around to actioning it or they don't agree that it violates their TOS. I'd suggest you write your local editor on it if you have a question. I've done that myself in the past and I've gotten a response.
11:19 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Bob It was removed. If you had the displeasure of reading it, you would agree it was beyond horrible.
Bob McBride
11:23 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Craig, if it's gone then the "Flag as inappropriate" link worked as it should, apparently. If we're still talking about it at this point then it's getting precisely what it was intended to get when it was posted. Attention.
Brian Carlson
11:07 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Craig, I appreciate your input. Bob, if lefties were posting hate mongering statements I would speak against them.... I haven't flagged anyone but if I was the editor I would watch this suprematist crap very closely.
Bob McBride
11:21 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Brian if you're not flagging them you don't have a thing to complain about. Why do you think that option is there? Do you really think the editors are going through the hundreds of comments made daily across numerous articles on each local Patch?
Good lord....
Jim Price
11:37 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Brian, Craig, and all – generally Patch tries to maintain the broadest platform for speech allowable within the confines of common decency. Obviously, it sometimes gets out of hand. For the most part, the local editor hosting the blog is responsible for moderating it. But we can't spend all of our time babysitting people who can't understand or won't follow the rules.
This isn't my blogger and I'm not really responsible for it, but I went in and deleted a couple of the most flagrant violations. It's late, and I, like other Patch editors, do have to sleep from time to time, and also do reporting of news and things like that, as well as sitting up until the wee hours reviewing and judging the asinine comments of some people who cannot control their vitriol.
To the extent you can, please continue to try to police things yourselves, as we will continue to try to put in place filters to keep recreant hatemongers from polluting our sites.
Thank you both for manning up.
Brian Carlson
8:47 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Jim et al,
It gets to the point where, beyond being flagrant provocation, its just what I call serious "blog vandalism." People hop in and spew their garbage, probably turning lots of otherwise interested readers off to the content of what the blogger was headed towards and the intelligent parts of the dialogue.
If I complain about the blog tagging as a blogger, I get attacked for being against free speech. I am an ardent supporter of free speech. However, if someone dumps a can of garbage on an interstate and it blows all over the highway...I am going to be very angry about that sort of wanton ignorance and intentional destructiveness.
Add to this, there is no reason to interact with people who do this, to take them as serious submitters...to respond to them at all. This isnt my blog...its Lyles... but I agree that a point was passed.
John Wilson
1:21 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Boffa -
Oct 10, 2012 "I have never FLAGGED ANYONE nor would I."
Little Yimmy Boffa, at the time I made that post, I had not flagged ANYONE nor could I foresee that I would have to take that drastic an action to silence Boffa and his derriere sniffing cabal of lemmings from flooding the Patch with their PERSONAL ISSUES.
Subsequently, after discussing the situation at length with Willard - he indicated it was his SOP to make a 180 degree turn every 24/7 – so, I thought you might just appreciate the irony…
Fire Fly
8:52 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Censorship by Jim Price !! Then he's got to tell everyone how hard he works judging
ASININE comments .. You don't have to look far Jim Bo.
Pocket protactor Journalism ..
10:04 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Mc Roy: It isn't censorship. I am all for free speech, but this needed to go. It was flagged and deleted- aprropriate!
John Wilson
10:44 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Craig –
Mc Roy –
Sorry, but you simply cannot be "ALL FOR FREE SPEECH" and turn 180 degrees and say, except in this instance, "BUT THIS NEEDED TO GO."
We – the logical world – call this an INCONSISTENT ARGUMENT!
Put more plainly, either you are PREGNANT or YOU ARE NOT PREGNANT… you cannot be both…
10:51 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Wilson: You did not get to read the comment, did you?
The comment was not even related to the subject matter but was more of a rant.
I doubt that you would agree with it.
Unless you feel we should have let Hitler go on and create a world of blonde hair and blue eyes, and exterminate the rest?
John Wilson
12:25 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Craig –
You are correct, I NEVER DID [GET TO] READ THE COMMENT, and I said that in my first post on this issue. You are more than likely correct too, in that I would have not agreed with or appreciated it. [Typically, here on the Patch, the original topic in the post ends up going all over the place.] So, IF it is off topic… DO NOT READ IT! IF you do not like the program on your radio or TV…CHANGE THE CHANNEL!
I suspect you will agree with this; there are some folks on this blog that I read, only about the first few sentences and I know where they are going and coming from… so I read no further and go on to the next post. You get to know after a short time, just who is worthy of some attention, some of the crazies that you just need to smack down and who and when to ignore.
I have never FLAGGED ANYONE nor would I.
One of the truly great things about America is FREE SPEECH and that is very precious to me. Let me be clear here, FREE SPEECH is the other side of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You simply cannot say something and then walk away from the consequences of that FREE SPEECH.
Enough, already!
James R Hoffa
12:50 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@Lyin' John Wilson -
"I have never FLAGGED ANYONE nor would I."
That's a WHOPPER - you previously flagged Hoffa over his wager with Schmitzy!
Stop LYING all the time!
Bob McBride
9:01 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
See what happens? You get this stuff. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Just use the "Flag" thing, stop making a big stink about it, ignore the stuff you don't like and move on.
Jay Sykes
11:32 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Well, now that we got rid of 'that' type of post lets 'self-police' as was suggested by the Patch editor-Jim Price and get rid of those blow hard cut and paste propaganda posting people/machines.
...then we can move on to eliminate those that don't display even a basic understanding of economics within their writings...... oh.... and then.... everything will be wonderful... it will be a lonely lonely patch..
Fire Fly
1:19 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Wilson I am for Free speech period , Don't know why you lumped me in with Craig
and your 180 comment but again that's your right since it's free speech.
John Wilson
10:56 am on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Michael McClusky -
Why don't you understand that WI imports - sometimes via ALEC - other states problems and issues, hence what is happening in another state is merely a prelude to what is going to happen in WI... now go get yourself a transvaginal ultra-sound and perhaps you will feel better...
Michael McClusky
11:22 am on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@John Wilson You are a moron if you think that someone from California can give decent advise on anything! That state is a basket case! I only wish we could export you there because you would fit right in!
James R Hoffa
12:48 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Lyin' John Wilson would fit in best in San Francisco, if you catch Hoffa's drift.... ;-)
12:51 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@Hoffa -- What's the drift? That he likes Rice-a-Roni? We all like tasty side dish as a break from potatoes.
John Wilson
1:28 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Michael McClusky -
I consult at 2 companies in CA and they are doing just fine...
James R Hoffa
1:29 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@Randy1949 -
LOL - Rice-a-Roni!
That's exactly right ;-)
Michael McClusky
5:25 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@John Wilson If you would just move to California then we would all be doing just fine! Your mindless insults could be better served where they are appreciated! Try the circus!
1:48 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Consider these facts before you vote:
1. Is the economy better off now than it was four years ago? Based on the evidence, I'd have to say no. Wages are down, the the prices of everything we buy is up. The price of gas has doubled. Good jobs are scarce.
2. Are the slight "up tics" in the economy a solid trend in the right direction? I don't think so. First, the gains are very slight. Second, I believe they are the result in the temporary stimulus by the Federal Reserve, in which they printed a lot of new money. It provides a slight bump now, but the cost will come later - after the election. Ben Bernanke is trying to save Obama's job, along with his own.
3. The continual misrepresentation of Romney on the auto bailout by the Obama administration. Obama appears to be taking complete credit for the bailout, while simultaneously saying that Romney was for liquidation of the auto industry. This is an absolute falsehood. It was Bush who initiated the bailout and TARP. Obama continued it and then expanded it, to his credit. However, Romney was one of the first to say that the industry needed to go through bankruptcy reorganization, and eventually they did exactly that. He also said that any needed loans should come from the private sector. He never said that the industry should be liquidated, or that he would deny federal funds if he were president, and private sector funds were not available. Obama lies!
4. The Benghazi coverup and lies.
1:56 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Tell you what -- you worry about the election in Virginia and let Wisconsin take care of itself.
Hoffa, why aren't you calling out this paid party spammer the way you did Jean from Ohio?
2:42 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
I like the "falsehood" that Bush didn't initiate TARP. Just because you "say" there's a "falsehood" doesn't make it true! ; )
Yes Randy, Virginia needs Colter95's attention far more than we do. S/He should focus on business at home.
3:20 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Or simply consider that nothing in the Coulter95 post is actually true and it shows the desperation with which the Republican party is willing to deceive people.
James R Hoffa
3:23 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
@Randy1949 & @Bren -
How come you guys don't comment about any of the liberal/leftist/Democrat out-of-state trolls? We've had far more of those in the past than conservative/righty/Republican out-of-state trolls - two just this last week in fact, Patricia and Jean.
Not to mention morninmist, who is constantly posting off-topic tweets and other crap!
James R Hoffa
3:30 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
@Watts -
How much are the liberal/leftist/Democrats paying you to troll a SE Wisconsin Patch site from Belmont Shore-Naples, California, spewing all of your crap?
3:44 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
@JRH -- The only thing that caught my attention about Colter was the same message posted on so many Patch threads. That led me to check the profile and notice that it came from out of state.
Sorry -- I tend to ignore morningmist.
James R Hoffa
3:48 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
@Randy1949 -
Well, now we have yet another left-wing out-of-state troll to add in to the mix: Watts.
That's now 3 left-wing out-of-state trolls in less than a week vs 1 conservative.
Honestly, what's going on with you guys on the left?
3:59 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Is Watts spamming with copy/paste repetitive messages?
However, you know what this tells me? Wisconsin is one of the important battleground states for once. Who'd'a thunk it?
8:06 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Beth Norquist is a third 'out of state Lefty' spammer this week. She's from Dunedin, Florida...
Lyle Ruble
9:36 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
@CowDung...I expect that since Romney is now showing emphasis on Wisconsin we will be undated with internet trolls from both sides. I remember when the legislature was debating the CC law, we got hit with all kinds of trolls.
Jay Sykes
10:09 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
Sure does make it more challenging to have a decent exchange when the trolls come out from under the bridge to post endless boilerplate propaganda.
I might need to go hide under the bridge for the next week or so...
12:33 am on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Little Jimmy Hoffa is crying that out of state trolling is challenging his in state trolling. Very solid argument you have there ;-)
Michael McClusky
10:17 am on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@Watts Why don't you worry about your own state's mess! Clean up your own act before setting foot into our problems!! What a nut!
John Wilson
7:02 pm on Saturday, October 27, 2012
"Search one's soul first before making your selection."
As an areligious person, I find the comment both, offensive and meaningless... it is obviously something blathered by a Faith-based religious person, making some farfetched assumptions about humans and a Fantasy World in general. I would call that a deeply prejudicial statement.
Racism, bias and prejudice are all too alive and well in America today.
America has a deep, rich history of racism, bias and prejudice; in fact, they are clearly institutionalized by our CONSTITUTION, our LAWS and by the most pernicious institution on the planet: RELIGION.
[Most Americans would be loath to admit that Jesus was a tanned Jew, and that the race of Tighty Whitey evolved from and contains the blood of many tanned and black ancestors...]
Only WHITE MALE PROPERTY OWNERS had the right to vote; BLACK PEOPLE ARE ONLY 3/5 of a PERSON; BLACK MALES only received the right to vote in 1870; WOMEN got the right to vote in 1920… Jim Crow laws largely kept BLACKS from voting, women too, until the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
I agree that Nature, Nurture, Experiential personal experiences all play a significant role in these phenomena; however, there is no greater enabler in this travesty than religion…
James R Hoffa
1:28 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Lyin John Wilson = extreme racist and religious bigot!
Brian Dey
6:21 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
Wilson- Get your head out of your butt and welcome to the 21st Century. Sorry, but you have not endured the racism of the past, yet you propogate it like it was your own experience. The only reason racism persists is that clowns like you won't accept that we have come to a point in history where it doesn't matter the color of your skin; that you can attain anything, even POTUS. So why don't you just shut your mouth and stop playing the victim. You are not.
I think Obama is at least the second worst POTUS in my lifetime not because of the color of his skin, but the content of his heart. Jimmy Carter would be first, at least up to the Benghazi events, which is putting Obama in the lead.
Do you want to know the true racism existing in our society today? Look in the mirror. It is people like you you loathe anyone not the same color you are.
And now we know that you are also a religion-hate. But you do have a religion. It is unto yourself. Me, Me, Me, Me.... All you care about is you. Be filled with hate for whatever reason it is you may have. If that is how you choose to lead your life, that is fine. But do us all a favor... next time you have a thought, let it go.
Nick Poulos
11:58 am on Sunday, October 28, 2012
@Lyle; thanks for presenting your readers with a forum in which they can reveal exactly who they are, together with their obvious prejudices, bigotry, concealed hatred, lack of education, lack of concern for others, and the belief that they are their own deities: whew!
They have said it all. The only comment I disagree with is that it does matter to all of us who wins and not just for the "cliff." If we support the R&R twins who have lied all the way along, we will lose our democratic republic; we will find even these bigots on patch.com crying for their own loss of liberty; jobs will not be created as promised; the wealthy will get more tax breaks, and sit on their accumulated wealth; education will continue to slide downward; the American Health Care Plan will be vitiated; and, we will find ourselves under an immoral ethics that deifies self-centered selfishness. But other than that, who cares, right?
Just two quotes if I might: "Only a God can save us." and
"What is most thought-provoking in this thought-provoking time is that we still are not thinking."
God Bless America: We do need to re-elect Obama/Biden and reject Romney Ryan (rejecting Ryan twice)!
Brian Dey
6:32 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012
One thought Nicky. Your guy had four years and did nothing to address any of your concerns. Education is getting worse, unemployment is still high and with Obama's policies will get worse (accarding to the CBO), there will be more cover-ups like Benghazi and Fast and Furious, and there will be much more divide.
I found it interestin that just yesterday, Obam admitted the same thing; "Don't judge me on the past 4 years, judge me on the next 4." Why would he say that? Because he can't defend his own record. Why should we trust him when he broke every single major campaign promise from 4 years ago.
I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. But I will not standby and reference me and my friends as bigots and racists just because we feel that Obama is not a good POTUS. It is prejudice to think that the reason we want him out is race. I can only speak for myself, but I want him out because he is destroying the U.S. I have lived in, worked in, started a business in and raised a family in. I fear his wreckless econmic views will truly put us in a Depression. His healthcare will backfire, his tax increases (on everyone) will bankrupt us all, and his incessant need to lie will cost more Americans their lives. Those are not black and white issues, bu American issues. I voted for Reagan to oust someone just like Obama, who happened to be a plantation owner in the South and white.
Michael McClusky
9:35 pm on Monday, October 29, 2012
@Brian Dey You have my vote if you can assure me that crazy John Wilson will be thrown out of the country permanently on the very day of the inaugeration.
Lyle Ruble
7:58 am on Tuesday, October 30, 2012
@Brian Dey....I don't agree with you that racism doesn't play a part in many people's decisions. They show up all the time on threads like this. Just as people on the left keep pointing out prejudicial attitudes and behaviors; the right claims that racism is no longer a problem. You can't make something go away just by denying its existence. Much of the expression of racial prejudice has moved to covert expressions. There is a coded language that is spoken concerning racial attitudes and beliefs.
I am concerned with people like you if Obama should retain the Presidency. You have worked yourself into a corner and I see it as very difficult for you to move on.
Brian Dey
9:20 am on Tuesday, October 30, 2012
I didn't say it doesn't exist. I spoke for myself and my friends. You have to get off this idea that just because we don't like Obama, its because of race. I don't speak in codes. Whether he is white or black, he is a lying buffoon. When I was plant manager, an employee came up to me and said I gave him a bad review because he was black. Being black had nothing to do with it. It just might have been that he called in sick every other day, came late to work often, and sometimes never bothered to call in an absence. What does that have to do with race?
I think you should have more concern for the violence perpetrated by the left. Have you seen what your fellow democrats have been doing? Nails in a parking lot of a Republican Rally, a state senator's son beaten because he tried to stop someone from stealing his Romney yard sign? Disconnecting trailers that carried campaign material? What will happen should Obama lose if this is already going on now? I don't see or hear of any Republican activity akin to this violence.
John Wilson
1:53 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Brian Dey -
Actually, when you were a plant manager, there wasn't a plant in the world...
John Wilson
2:03 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Lyle Ruble -
"You can't make something go away just by denying its existence."
I have to disagree with you here; Republicans have been doing it for decades, they use the "Wishful Thinking" methodology...
It goes along with the "If I say it is a fact, it is a fact."
Furthermore, there is no entrance into their delusional "Wishful Thinking."
Sorry, Lyle, it is what it is...
Brian Carlson
11:22 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Anyone who believes that racism doesn't effect people's perceptions of the President in varying degrees is in denial. If you are white in this country, you have to be oblivious not to have seen or sensed racist reactions or racially biased remarks about Obamas presidency and about his abilities for a second term. I am not saying that all of his detractors are stained by racism... I am saying that the entire country has been effected by racism and that some, with serious effort, hold it in abeyance or keep it locked away as best possible. Not all Republicans are racists but anyone who maintains the most would be happy with a black president...as long as he or she was republican are really in denial.
11:44 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Your ilk may have shamed us in 2008 and made some vote for that half-and-half guy due to the scare of being called racists if they didn't, but it will not work this time. I would vote for Allen West, for example, if he ran for president not because he is all black, but all brains compared to Obama. If you proved you weren't a racist in 2008, prove you're not an idiot in 2012. Elect Romney.
John Wilson
1:47 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Brian Carlson -
Spot on!
It is very refreshing to see a reasonable person – there are so few on the Patch – commenting.
H.E. Pennypacker
1:50 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
When in doubt, play the race card. Obongo can't compete on ideas, so blame whitey!!
Brian Dey
1:56 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you weren't a racist, then vote for Romney in 2012 to prove you're not an idiot. I am so sick of the left using race to excuse the poor performance of this lying, do nothing President. This guy is more interested in his golf swing then actually trying to fulfill the promises he made. Play the race card all you want, but black, white, yellow or brown, this is the worst President in modern times. Even if your your colorblind, you should see that.
2:07 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
If we wanted to stoop to their level, it wouldn't be too difficult to build a case to claim that those who don't vote for Romney are anti-Mormon bigots...
Brian Carlson
9:41 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
CD... I imagine there are people who won't vote for Romney due to his particular religious persuasion.
Brian Carlson
9:44 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Penny P, in case you didn't notice Obama has done quite well competing. He is the President of the US. This election is a dead heat. As to ideas, what are Mitts ideas? I really have listened for some.
9:53 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
It should never have taken us until 2008 to elect someone other than a white male for president. I did not vote for Obama in 2008 and certainly will not on Tuesday, that said, I think he is a very nice man, I actually like him but I do not think he has been a good president at all. I think he and his policies have hurt our country and will continue to do so if he is reelected. I wonder though, how many did and will vote for him, just because he is black. That is almost reverse racism.
Brian Carlson
8:38 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Cricket...quite right on the first point. Let me make an off the cuff litmus test for those who maintain that the race issue does not factor in this or all the previous elections, post slavery I guess because we can agree that black slaves had a poor chance of becoming President (hopefully?)
If you think you are not racially biased ask yourself:
1. How many friends have you had in life? What percentage of those approximately were members of another race?
2. In the main neighborhoods in which you have lived, what percentage, ballpark, were families of another race?
3. If you were homeshopping and found a house you liked, that firt your needs, and then noticed that the family pictures on the wall were members of another race, would you buy the home?
4. On a list of the twenty most revered people in your life, people you think are outstanding, how many are members of another race?
5. You need a heart operation. You meet the doctor who is assigned to do the work and find it's a member of another race. Does this concern you at all?
6. What percentage of people did you date who were not members of your race?
7. If your son or daughter had been raving about a new love they had met and then announced plans to marry, were invited to your home and you saw then that the person was of another race, would your joy for your child change?
I am not asking you specifically cricket....it's a general question.
9:18 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
I think neither race, gender or religious preference should factor in to presidency. Wasn't Kennedy the first catholic? and although I am too young to remember that, I believe that was a talking point at the time. Perhaps it is because other races and women have been too intimidated to even consider it. I remember Geraldine Ferraro seemed to be such a big deal at the time too.
I live in Shorewood and can honestly say I can not think of any african americans in my immediate area - 2, 3 blocks or so. I can also say, that it would not matter to me. Over the years I have had african american friends, one I would socialize with quite a bit. She however, never wanted to go to "white" clubs or bars or restaurants, didn't feel comfortable with it. She was the only african american in our office of strictly white, upper middle class males.
People are people to me - I can honestly say that. I would have no problem marrying someone of a different race. I do know my dad would probably have had a problem with it and remember my mom once saying that it would be tough on any children - these conversations would have happened 20 years ago however. Don't know how they would feel about it today. There is nothing about one's race or gender that makes them any better or worse at a job than anyone else. All humans are capable of all things. Unfortunately our society has led us to believe differently, starting with slavery. We can blame our forefathers for that ignorance.
Brian Carlson
8:49 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
As you rightly point out, it has been to long for this country to not have had a non-white President. Those who maintain that there has not been qualified people in the running, may well consider that, to gain the nomination of a party controlled by whites, the issue of race has been a damper to any would be candidates.....from the moment they tossed a hat in the ring. If there are literally never any qualified non-whites, an assumption I greatly disagree with, then one may assume that there are not equal opportunities for the sort of education required, the upward mobility that seems to be vital, the lower level jobs that typically provide platforms for Presidents etc. Safe to say that big money does not get behind non-whites until this past election. All race bias.
I expect many, not all, of those who imagine that race does not effect national judgement, is not institutionalized in ways that limit the upward climb, etc., also believe that gender bias isn't the reason we still have had no top of the ticket females let alone Presidents. No qualified women? Not enough of them around? Get real friends. I am not looking for excuses for the President....he IS the President...an historic and incredible achievement in a country still very segregated in life.
There are many questions I could choose that uncover racial bias or racism. I don't know that the bias has to be consciously maintained to qualify as racism nor does it seem to matter.
Brian Carlson
8:51 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Agreed that reverse discrimination occurs btw.... But do you believe that ALL blacks back Obama Because he is black? That would be assuming they are not like yourselves.... Race blind...above discrimination....
Michael McClusky
9:37 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Romney's spine was removed a long time ago. Vote for Gary Johnson!
Brian Dey
10:28 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
I won't change your mid, I'm sure. Just remember, Ross Perot gaves us Clinton, and Gary Johnson, will give us 4 more of Obama. Taking a stand is great, but remember risk/reward.
Michael McClusky
10:38 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
@Brian Dey I am discouraging people from voting for either the Republican or Democratic candidates. Both campaigns are ignoring the US Supreme Court's recommendations on full disclosure of contributions and the separation of the PACS from the campaigns. Both candidates have agendas that we will never know.
Brian Carlson
10:54 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Cricket....the reason there weren't many African Americans in shore wood is called steering in the realty world. Racism. The whites didn't want them there. Milwaukee has long held a title as one of the mostnracially segregated cities in the US. You seem to have decided to break with the tradition.... But this requires conscious effort. Many people dont think to even try to make it....Yes to Kennedy and the first
Catholic. Still no women. How many Jewish Presidents have we had? People that ignore these facts are willfully ignorant members of the ruling majority. They are non-issues. If Jesse Jackson had become President back in the day...does anyone believe he wouldn't have had assassination attempts on him?
11:03 am on Saturday, November 3, 2012
"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever."
12:12 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
I grew up in Bayside and can think of maybe 3 or 4 black families. This would have been in the 60's and 70's. Thought nothing about it at all. My freshman year at nicolet was the first for the 220 kids. What I remember most about that was that they all kind of clung together. I was pretty shy in high school so I didn't really gravitate towards anyone group at all initially but by sophomore and junior year I think things had pretty much settled down and I just don't recall it being an issue with them. There were never any fights or anything. As I think about it, it wasn't until I was in the restaurant business that I worked with more than one at a time either, again, it was a non issue for me at least, but I do recall some other coworkers perhaps raising their eyebrows - this was in the Northshore as well. I don't know what the answer is - I do recall thinking when Obama was elected that perhaps this would be a start to end segregation but to me it seems worse than when it was 4 years ago. You can't make people open up their minds if they are set against it. As to the Shorewood thing - we pride ourselves on being one of the most diverse suburbs and I know there are many african american family's here, just not in my immediate area that I am aware of. Then again, after more than 20 years I don't even know some people a block over. Perhaps it is because I do not have kids.
Lyle Ruble
9:50 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
@AWD....You have a deep dark cancer growing in your soul. You can now be categorized as sub human.
Brian Carlson
8:48 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
AWD.... What sick bastard does that pathetic quote come from?
10:08 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
It's a famous quote from George Wallace's 1963 Inaugural Address. I remember coming home from school when I was 10 years old and my Father telling me George Wallace was shot. I was sad, my Father supported George Wallace in his run for President and at that young of age I too could see the wisdom in what Governor George Wallace was predicting for America's future. George Wallace ended up being right. Black people as a whole are the single most drain on the United States and will ultimately result in its ruination. As of now, entire sections of our cities have been destroyed (Brown Deer for example) and it's only getting worse.
Brian Carlson
5:23 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
All White D.... What does the d stand for? The single refreshing thing about you is you wear your racism on your sleeve... Everything you have to say is ignorant... But you have been raised to hate people, to denigrate them and to draw sweeping conclusions from select examples. You can't see a difference between poverty and race, can't see causative factors in what little you see that are institutionalized....built into the structure of our system. I find your views pathetic.
Brian Carlson
5:23 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
But at least you don't fool yourself about your racism...
Brian Carlson
5:27 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
You have also made Lyles case and turned over the protests of those who hold that race is no factor in electing Presidents. You are the poster boy of racists on these blogs. Congrats.