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Object Description
|Bethel Yearbook 1978
|Alternative Title
|Passages 1978
|Academic Year
|1977 - 1978
Bethel College (Saint Paul, Minn.)
College yearbooks
|This volume documents the people, events, activities and ideas of the Bethel community during the 1977-1978 school year
|Date Published
|Digital Publisher
|Bethel University
|Bleeker, Laurie (Design Editor); Hansen, Denise (Copy Editor); Johnson, Steve (Photographer); Nelson, Darrel (Technical Advisor);
|Digital Collection
|Bethel Yearbook Collection (1909-1989)
United States
Saint Paul
|Time Span of Publication
|Published annually from 1909 to 1989 except for the years of 1933-36, 1982, 1984-87
|Original Publisher
|Bethel College
|Images are available for educational and research purposes and are covered by Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported license. This image may not be reproduced for commercial purposes without the express written consent of Bethel University Digital Library. Contact Bethel University Digital Library at 651-638-6937 or firstname.lastname@example.com.
|Physical Dimensions
|21.5 x 21.5
|Local Item ID
|The name, Passages, suggests the passing of someone or something. It may call to mind the passing of seasons or the movement of people through a hallway. It may suggest people moving in and out of the lives of others, or it might bring to mind our own movement through the stages of growth. This all has to do with "change," for how else do we know that passage has occurred except by changes in time, in place, in ap-pearance, in attitude, in spirit. It is this element of "change" that Passages 1978 is all about. In large measure, this is what Bethel College is all about too — people who have come to cause change and to be changed. BETHEL COLLEGE SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA 1978 LAURIE BLEEKER, DESIGN EDITOR DENISE HANSEN, COPY EDITOR STEVE JOHNSON, PHOTOGRAPHER DARREL NELSON, TECHNICAL ADVISOR RIVER THOUGHTS As the stream flowed quickly over the fall, it came at last to the open sea. Through seasons hot and cold and all, the endless terrain, to an island's lea. It paused to rest in a tidal pool before it passed through the delta straights. "What a journey," it thought, "from the calm and cool beginning, till now I'm at Neptune's Gates." "Yet what I've learned and how far I've come has made me unique, and that strength is great. But it's frightening to leave all I've known and done up to this time, to enter the gate." "What will be seen there? What fortune meet? How lost all my waters I've gathered before! But no, not lost, many others will greet these new droplets that slip through the salty shore." "And so with a crashing and splashing of glee, I'll try my own way, I'll sing my own song. Soon I'll be caught by the arms of the sea. I'm glad to be going, but sad to be gone." MEGAN HASTINGS These cloistered woods are wreathed in garland soft, Rough oaks glisten, The pond is glazed Winter's marbled wilderness is still my thoughts aloft. Seclusion shares a journal not in print— her discoveries, imaginings, bright joys, and loneliness —the dialog with God. Our solitary meetings with one King are strengthening as on the path we trod. I sojourn in His glittering cathedrals— A woodland wonderment of lauding bells. BARB TROSTAD "There are two perceptions we ought to get very carefully about our lives, the possibility that God is going to give us options for everything we do. An option to live your life fully, completely, totally alone, or the privilege and the gift to live with a mate." Mark Lee "The key to our problems today is a new type of education." John Perkins "The ennumeration of the constitutional rights of people accused of crime in the constitution was intended to prevent the government from doing to you what it would otherwise like to do." Judge Joe Summers "A Christianity that is unrelated to a historic Christ, and a Christianity that is unrelated to a living Christ, is a Christianity that cannot, under any circumstances, have strength." Stuart Briscoe As the years go by, things become more familiar. I have relaxed, open-ed up, and discovered America. I find out that Americans are just as helpful and friendly as Indians, and that friendship overcomes cultural differences. It has been three years since I came to Bethel. Through those years I have learned to think like Americans, and spell like they do. However, I am still an Indian at heart and will never be completely Americanized. That is why I want to return to India — the land of jungles, elephants, snakes, cows, and grass huts. The India that I know is also a land of the snow-capped Himalayas, roaring rivers, and peo-ple who need Christ. It is a land of diverse and ancient traditions, cultures, and languages. "Hey, I'd like to go home with you," several friends have said. These friends are Americans who have learned to say my name right, and put up with my crazy Indian. ways. THANGI CHHANGTE ONE IN A CROWD "Hi! What's your name?" "Thangi." "Tiny? That's a cute name. Where are you from?" "India." "Isn't that somewhere near Bang-ladesh?" That's what my first few days at Bethel sounded like. Looking back, I think the prob-lems I faced my freshman year were caused by feelings of insecurity. I felt that I was treated differently because I was from another race and culture. As a result, I was of-fended easily. I was also confused because I didn't want to lose my Indian culture by becoming Americanized. At the same time, I realized that I could not adjust without adapting. Adjusting did not come easy. I was used to thinking that the American way of doing things was not always right. For instance, I had been taught that the only correct way of spelling "check" was "cheque." Such spelling mistakes really bothered me at first, but I gradually got accustomed to them. DISCIPLESHIP Stephen said as he was stoned, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit ... Lord, don't charge them with this sin." (Acts 7) These two themes of Stephen illustrate well the "radicalized" nature of my Christian discipleship. A student came into my office one day, several years ago, and asked, "If you were me, could you fight in the Viet Nam war?" I said, "Why do you ask?" "I'm thinking of applying for a Conscientious Objector status," he said, "but my pastor says that a good Christian cannot be a pacifist and that he will not write a supporting letter." Last fall a student knocked on the door and said, "Can I see you for a minute?" I said, "O.K." She replied, "I saw you on the World Vision telethon; I was wondering why God allows so many people to starve to death. Why isn't the evangelical church doing very much about it?" This past January, a student in my Human Rights in the Modern World class related to me a passage from the prison memoirs of Georgi Vins. This preacher of the gospel in the Soviet Union experienced prison brutality at several points in his life because of his faithfulness to Christ. The student asked, "Is my faith strong enough so that I would be able to continue living for Christ in that type of situation?" When Stephen said, "Lord, receive my spirit," he could say so because Christ really was the Lord of his life. He had captured the essence of what it means to say, "If Christ is Lord, no one else can be." Christians need to make sure that the State, the accumulation of material goods, and the desire for personal survival don't shape our values and become "Lords" ®f our lives. When Stephen muttered, "Lord, don't charge them with this sin," he echoed a principle of Christian discipleship which is "radical" in nature. Christ's teachings demand that we be peacemakers, that we love those who persecute us. (Matthew 5) Christ also demands that His followers live simply, abhor injustice, and serve Him totally. Christians are dissenters whose "radical" lifestyle frequently confront the ethics and values of the communities in which we live. This we should expect. Lord, I struggle with my friends to learn what it means to be a disciple of yours. Give me the courage to adopt those distinctive characteristics which will allow those around me to know that your life dwells within me. Lord, give me that kind of "radicalness" that allows me to confront injustice proclaim thy salvation give witness of thy love. Lord, give me the strength to recognize that thy people will always be the Provocative prophetic dissenting community in a world that does not want to recognize your existence. G WILLIAM CARLSON TEACHING TO LEARN After 20 years of teaching college students, I have learned: First, I am no judge of human potential. My batting average for predicting the success of my students is so low as to be unmeasurable. Some of those I thought would set the world on fire haven't even struck a match, and some whom I considered to be wet ashes are glowing steadily. One student who enrolled in a beginning writing course told me he wanted to become a professional writer. When his papers began corn-ing in, they were unbelievably bad. I called him in for a conference. Seeking a lead into a delicate sub-ject, I asked about his background. He told me he had dropped out of school at age 14, had bummed across the country, joined the army, spent a lot of time in libraries and, after his discharge, had passed the General Education Development Test as a substitute for a high school diploma. He was admitted to col-lege. But he had missed at least four years of putting words on paper and the gap was showing. I decided to postpone my advice for at least another semester. I'm glad I did. He has made a living in freelance writing for the last 15 years. Second, I have learned there is a vast difference between criticizing and producing. It takes very little skill to point out the weaknesses in someone else's work. And that's how most teachers of writing spend their time and energy. I was reminded of that a year ago when a book manuscript of mine ended in the hands of an editor who had been one of my students. It came back with a contract on condi-tion I would do a rewrite. The editor outlined the kind of changes he wanted and then wrote, "I feel as though I am reproducing your class notes in this letter." Trouble was, he was right. The very things that I had thundered at him I had failed to do. Third, I have learned that teaching can become an ego trip. The temptation to brag, "He was a student of mine," is almost over-whelming. It implies that I am par-tially responsible for his success, or that his being successful means that I am a good teacher. A teacher may have students who become famous in spite of him. I know that the only credit I can take for a student's suc-cess is that I was not a roadblock along his way. The most important function I have is to encourage each student, to blow gently on whatever flicker-ing flame of creativity burns within him—not hard enough to extinguish it, just to make it glow a little stronger. ALVERA MICKELSON , I II ill III I -1-_,i1.1L1 I ILtL 11 1 11 1111111:, 111._ I 101$110. PROCRASTINATION AGAIN Six forty five A.M. announced itself via Glen Campbell and "Southern Nights" full volume on my clock-radio. From beneath institutional-white sheets, a 98 degree electric blanket, and a moun-tain of text books came a moan of disbelief. By the chorus of the song our subject was snoring again. It was not until unreasonable roommates began shouting that I rolled from my artificially-heated nest into the cold, stark reality of morning. I completed the every day miracles of bathing in my sleep and applying mascara with both eyes closed. At 7:45 I was shocked to find my weary body on a bus heading toward New Campus . . . and the Library. Procrastination was about to be opposed. Final deadline for my research paper didn't fall till 4:30 that afternoon. "No more fooling around." I told myself sternly. "To-day you are going to choose your topic and get that thing written!" There would be no visits to Doc's Corner. Breakfast was out of the question. And today, the number of hopeful sojourns made daily to my P.O. would decrease. Sitting in the drafty interior of the bus I felt sufficiently sorry for myself. I savored the titles "Martyr" and "Saint" for a delicious, dramatic moment. With arms stretched around an impressive mound of LRC thrillers, Existentialism and the Modern Man among them, I began an unac-customed journey toward the Bethel library. Midway between the coat racks and the drinking fountains, my asser-tive strides halted. I listened ner-vously. "Doughnuts, Coffee, Socializa-tion ..." I recognized the familiar call that drifted up the gym stairs from the Coffee Shop. "Nope," I answered. "Today I am not procrastinating. I am writing an 'A' paper." An amazed passerby stared. I smiled proudly at my courageous words, but my posture drooped as I thought of the im-possibility of holding a caramel roll in my hand. My feet took two rapid, brave steps toward the intellectually-stimulating domain of the library. "Steaming tea. Toasted English muffins ..." continued the voice coaxingly. My confident arms trembled slightly as I opened the gym doors. Doughnuts and sweet rolls pummel-ed a nose caught unaware. I heard a chorus of carefree Bethelites moan in epicurean ecstasy over their leisurely breakfasts. "My paper," I thought. "I have to write a paper." "Tomato juice ... muffins ..." The voice paused for the climatic addition, "a waffle." A crazed smile emerged from behind a coffee cup. An arm curved joyously about a butter-dripping waffle. The battle with procrastina-tion was lost again. SHELLY NIELSEN Walking through the Art Department I was distracted by a small huddle of people. Out of curiosity I stopped to take a look. "It's a bronze pour," said the guy standing on the outside of the huddle. I stepped closer feel-ing a sense of tension and an-ticipation in the air. I fixed my eyes upon a sweat-soaked professor, and I watched him dip a long iron thermometer into the pot of molten bronze. Above the roar of the kiln he yelled, "It's ready now. We've reached 2200 degrees." As if a race had begun the waiting workers began to replace their tension with action. Chains clanged, rattling as they were set in motion. The ceiling hoist squeaked, bearing the weight of the spewing and spit-ting red-hot bronze. Motionless, I watched the lowering pot reach the empty molds. Before the last mold was speedily filled, beads of sweat rolled from my face. "O.K. we've got them all," said the professor. I stepped from the crowd as the excited feeling slow-ly escaped me. Never had I felt so much excitement, anticipation, and tension at Bethel. MIKF.ROSE LI. High on a edged cliff my hunger resounds through canyon walls; in feathery thicket does my appetite cry out empty echoes. Delay not, 0 Lord, for this starving soul awaits for you alone; swiftly attend my distress, for in you is my trust secured. Unexpectedly, the span of stalling wings shadows the air. Hope fastens firm, stretching me outward for prey— life giving food. My mouth widens, expressing joyous reliance upon you, 0 Lord; From open lips flow forth the praises of my provider. TED LEWIS PSALM OF PRAISE Behold, the Lord is an eagle whose wings shall ever shield me; faithful is he who nurtures the offspring of his nest. THINGS PEOPLE GO TO SEE AT BETHEL When I was in high school I asked my brother, then a Bethel student, what he did in his spare time. "What spare time?" he responded im-mediately, apparently not having to think about it. Despite my efforts to pry from him the drawing cards of collegiate life, he insisted that "spare time" was a term little known in the land roamed by Keith Tekautz and Dr. Berglund. It seemed a strange change of at-mosphere, three or four years later, when I heard fellow Bethel students arguing that "you can hardly expect students not to break the lifestyle policies when Bethel doesn't give us anything to do here." I wondered how they had escaped the profs I was facing. But, I felt for Bethel's desperate element and set out to find something enticing enough to keep such people off the streets. I found a number of things to see at Bethel, and once caught in the flow of things I couldn't help but drift along. It began with Welcome Week. The first night I went to see a typical Welcome Week movie. It was very academic (because Bethel is a learn-ing community) and many people were asleep. I realized that was good because the Welcome Week staff was going to wake the sleeping freshmen (and poor innocent RAs) at 3 a.m. to go see silly skits in the gym. If exhaus-tion won't keep them off the streets I don't know what will. I tried to see several Bethel foot-ball games. It seems I was always behind some girl who jumped up and screamed on every play so ac-tually I didn't see much football at all. I wished the girl was in the streets. Festival of Christmas involved so many students that hardly anyone was left to be on the streets. "The Rainmaker," was a play directed by Dr. Rainbow who is famous for not giving his cast any spare time. It was well worth the sacrifice. When I went to see baseball games I recalled how we used to play baseball in the streets. I can only begin to l ist the movies, concerts, plays and athletic events I attended. At the end of the year I went to the all-school banquet with people I had met at concerts and football games. My grades were lower, I was poorer, and I hadn't had any spare time. But I stayed off the streets, and I'll never forget the things I went to see at Bethel. DAVID SHELLEY , i_ ,..,--- v s--': -'.-4,-, - - =.• ' '" - Irrr.t".•••• . --;- - ... . ., , . ,..s.: ........... 7 -•-•7•-7 >-i- .: - :L. ,_- f. - : ......-•••-,, . ,.., ••• ,-,- ,,,,..... -•'' ... • — ....... . _ .., , .....,....:-.... • .,,... .. ,....... , --• .c.......... ..... -.,- --.7.*-T_I-7-, '-:Ne-4, -- .,;.7 • . - ----.7,..--. .........,. ,.,.,. ,._. .:. .."-, . 4:7 44. - -...-•-,- -_-,.. ', -. t•. •_ - - . ..-.-. t. ..." ''''",'," :.-_,•• •••-:_-:'".":- ..'.. . .. .:. -__ - • - • =4,.. ..•., t4t-- - =,■e-... ya '.437-11;i-_'--..i.4.-:-.' -'•-•••• : : 7 ' ;:-,,,-; 4.....,-r.•-,.,4,,..,-7. -fit .._ ... • - - ., .....,..-sr• ac, ---.,-.. '...1'... • -, . :-.7 , • --.! 2 .. •• :: .-. •;,._%-i-g -.0 . . . -. -.i.. • ..2..,..... .,... ■--...;...... --. . .... ■..; .. . . ... , .•.7 .,..,...4,H. : ....":".....: _ , ... tr......;:c_ ,..... .,,: ... s • ,.. _ . ,. :- -. 1.71.\--.',...0,k . ,-,..-•0; - , ....,-., • - ,!.• • 1. . ��� " .• .' ' • • ' ;.-..-T"..2. v:.-.:- .1.** 7 .. - - . . - .";F:,:•.-.1-44-!- .•.-4- .--:•- -- ;•.: .;..-. -....""'...., . ' ,-i:,, , IL' 2 .. • .. • • s '.- ' ' *, • 1..*: .. ., • . • .. . • • N . -, • ,...,...t...t .srr-4,-,',- '', I.:. 2. -, .• { ,••••...,--:. '.."'• ''!".1' a ■10-, 1.• `••: "1.- s , ..`•••• ••■• • . ....1 .. -..i ,': .ti.. 4 V• ••• .' 1 1,- 'N. .1' A-----•• k- 4 • . 7 . ....... , iv."'" •-• :717''' . .751i . ....... :4.),-..2', v... •••'-• , 7 . -1, .• • ,. "..t,';'..:r.4".... -, 4,, ...irti - -'04-i. 4-1.1!:-;,;,..i., :.-..,:k:,, . .A., 0441.17; • ...". .- _,..v. .k • ,:-.1 . ,,.. ..., - 4 ,...-,.., •-. ...,,... .. 1',..., .:. -,..- 7." • . 4-A* ,-, , •'' '-''' ''. - - 7 - • Alk- — tY ■ r • 1.;•••1 • ;46'`■ 1- i 1164khiaii4 4". •rAl (11114.11771 • Ric YOU GOTTA WANT IT "You gotta want it" is a phrase that has stuck with me while I've played football here at Bethel. Win-ning a game was important, but more important was whether I gave my best. "Wanting it," meant giving my best. One lesson I've learned through sports is to face defeat squarely (unless you're unfortunate enough to win all the time). When my at-titude is right I can face defeat honestly and evaluate my own per-formance and character rather than blaming others or rationalizing the game away. The discipline sports has taught me helps me give my best. I wasn't born strong. I knew in order to be good I would have to work at it. The first few practices of the season my freshman year were real-ly hard. Most of my teammates were bigger than I was, and this made me wonder if I could make it. But the friendship of my teammates helped me stick out those first few but-terflies. When you sweat together, bleed together, and pray together you can't help but get close to your teammates. No one becomes a champion in a matter of weeks. Sacrifice, sweat, soul searching, ups and down, giving your best are all parts of a true champion. Our Lord was that kind of champion. MIKE ANDERSON IN THE LIMELIGHT It may be true that "all the world is a stage," and everyone has his moments in the limelight. But some of us place ourselves in its beam by choice, in theatre, athletics, music ... We take our talents before crowds hoping and trusting that what we do will bring a favorable response, for once we are out there we cannot leave until the job is done. The limelight makes us vulnerable. Mistakes leap out when we least expect them. We fumble lines, notes and footballs. We trip up in public performance. Though our minds amplify inaudible whispers and snickers, there is no place to hide, and we must charge on—alone. Hours and days and weeks of exhausting practice are spent in preparation for those short moments under the lights, a time during which the demands on us are high. We have a responsibility to do no less than our very best. The audience has paid their good money to come and see what we do—which means we'd better be at least as good as a large pizza, or a drive in the country, or Star Wars. The light demands greater responsibility in everyday life as well. Though it is less bright, the light follows us off-stage. We hear, "There's the villain of the play. D'you suppose he's like that in real life?"—and realize we are being watched. But along with the vulnerability, work, and increased responsibility come rewards. Solid relationships develop amid the stinky socks of the locker room and greasy make-up backstage. Friendships grow strong behind the lights. However, it is under the heat of the actual glare that the great exhilaration comes. We experience conquest and adventure and fulfillment. For us the stage becomes Hillary's Everest—we must mount it "because it is there." Its call is irresistible, and we leap into its blizzard of emotional tenseness, stomach butterflies and dry throats, emerging victorious regardless of whether we win or lose. We have extended ourselves out of the realm of the ordinary. We have stretched body and mind; muscles and imagination. We have discovered new worlds within us. And when we descend from the heights reached under the lights we are stronger, wiser, fuller people for having done it. It is then we begin to await with eager an-ticipation the next time the lights come up and the static spark of a live performance crackles through the air. In the limelight—its our life, our world, and we love it. BRUCE R. BONNE • ,'44' 1'1 . 2 .. •'• ri t.,.1.i..,'.:; ; ,' 1 .1 . . .., .f ,,, .. r-'... '-1-. -- , ' • ' I% 000., 00 r ..7' .. : t' . AV '*. '• .. )j i4 t fi "-NNW !; • 4."'"'"11•40••CM0-0. �� 14.111111, a DEC. 6, 8 A.M. Trod stiff kneed, wind chilled. Approach frosted vehicle with caution. Anticipation is fed with a free turning lock. Peer in at the abandoned space capsule, dungeon cooled. Vinyl is never meant to get this cold. Plop in. No other way. Grunt and vow you'll move while seat accepts life again. Key rises like a hopeless twig swallowed in gloved fingers. Gumption risen, pump and turn. Eternal seconds turn you over breathless and familiar snap sparks life and warmth that emanates every where but your toes. Check rearview mirror and go. STEPHEN B. STARR COFFEE SHOP Hum of carefree chatter melts into steady drone. Numbed fingers having lost the battle with sub-zero windchill, seek warmth on coffee cups. Oven-warm chocolate-chip cookies, still bendable, melt in savoring mouths. Townhouse dwellers speak of cold evenings and turned up thermostats. Bible and chem majors discuss alternately, theological problems and chemistry equations. Cash register's ring sounds endlessly, contributing to buzz of conversations. Words and sounds mesh together; Bethel is represented. CHAR EKLOF PASSING THROUGH Three journalists interviewed a renowned concert pianist. "How does it feel to be famous?" asked the first. With answers to that and similar questions, he wrote the story of a celebrity. "How long should a beginning student practice each day?" the second asked, and compiled advice about good piano-playing. "How do you eliminate the air space from your flawless arpeggios?" asked the third writer, who even-tually composed the profile of a unique artist. Three students came to Bethel fora four-year inter-view with the artists here—teachers, librarians, janitors, deans, RA's, other students. "What's for lunch?" asked the first, and graduated with a lot of 'neat' memories. "How many pages does this paper have to be?" asked the second, who compiled an impressive resume and pleased his parents, graduating magna cum laude. "But what does it all mean . .or what do I mean?" ask-ed the third, without presumption. He graduated quietly, equipped to live. HOLLY SCHM1ESS
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text:
|Newby - Need Basics Help
|Page 1 of 1
|newby [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:14 am ]
|Post subject:
|Newby - Need Basics Help
I am new to all of this and would like some kind of manual that teaches the basics of this system. Doing search engine research is hard and creates more questions.
I used LinuxMint for a short period, but this system is different and all is new to me. Including "yum".
|tristan [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:35 pm ]
|Post subject:
Newby ;-) (am one myself)
What system have you actually installed?
is it Blag140000 or Blag160000?or a Fedora 20 ?..
They are both no longer maintained ,most of us run a Fedora 20 with a
http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/li ... /freed-ora
As a newbie wishing to use a 100percent GNU/Linux operating system i
recommend you ::
most distribution have documentations,wikis,Forums,IRC,but remember
wiki's are generally community made so they are not exhaustive in the
manner of how to ;-)
it takes time to apprehend it all and does demand some world wide web
search..at least you have successfully booted into a GNU/Linux
system..that's a big leap into ...an adventure!
you can join the IRC #blag
if you find the "configuration"of your IRC client(Pidgin/HexChat)too
dificult ==>
and join the channel #blag
you can use Yumex==>system>administartion>yumex to do updates
& install stuff you may want to try or want installed.
Some Non-Libre distributions offer interesting documentation to have a
general view of GNU/Linux such as :
What is Blag?
Blag is a 100% free GNU/Linux distribution, which means that it features
only free (libre) software - in the live cd and in the repo - according
to the Free Software Foundation definition.
Among the main differences between Blag and other GNU/Linux
distributions, Blag features a special Kernel, from the linux-libre
project which doesn't include any non-free firmware. It also uses Icecat
instead of Firefox.
Blag is Fedora-based, but provides more content by default : you may
find some new software in the repositories like educational softwares,
games, newer version of some existing softwares.
Finally, Blag is not just only a GNU/Linux distribution. It's also a
political, philosophical and technical community. All of its members
work to overthrow corporate control of information and technology
through community action and spreading Free Software.
|newby [ Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:07 pm ]
|Post subject:
Hello Tristan,
Thank you for your reply. I would like to ask some questions. Forgive me in advance, I have not read through all of your links, they are very many.
-I have a Blag 140, I guess. I got it from this site - blagblagblag (dot) org
-Do you know why they are no longer maintained?
-How did you learn that they are no longer maintained.
-If you no longer use Blag, may I ask what you are doing here?
-What is an IRC client and why would I want to configure it?
|Junichirô [ Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:14 pm ]
|Post subject:
I have a question too: why your IP addresses are spammers IP?
|tristan [ Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:53 pm ]
|Post subject:
spammers go away!
since i've left an email address on blag-forum/Fedora.fr/Fedora.org..i get this kind of crap everyday:
1 new e-mails in your Spam folder
Status report from 23.02.2014
Number of e-mails in your Spam folder: 1
Number of new e-mails in your Spam folder: 1
[H] From: Teodoro Chapman <arozaso>
Subject: Zwei Vakanzen zugÃ?nglich
|newby [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:46 pm ]
|Post subject:
[quote="Junichirô"]I have a question too: why your IP addresses are spammers IP?[/quote]
First, I can use what IP address I wish.
Second, I am not a spammer. If take the time to look at what I am actually writing, you will see that the content is not that of a spammer.
Third, you sound like a spammer. Could you explain why you are not answering the questions asked?
|newby [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:49 pm ]
|Post subject:
Hello Tristan,
You recommended using Fedora 20. Weird! You don't seem to understand the Freedom Software movement. Fedora 20 is not supportive of this movement, as found in the gnu official web-site. Therefore, why are you in a Freedom Software forum when you clearly don't share the same values?
|Junichirô [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:03 pm ]
|Post subject:
newby wrote:
Hello Tristan,
Thank you for your reply. I would like to ask some questions. Forgive me in advance, I have not read through all of your links, they are very many.
newby wrote:
Third, you sound like a spammer. Could you explain why you are not answering the questions asked?
Why answering to a guy who doesn't read the answers?
|tristan [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:07 pm ]
|Post subject:
Quote from Matthew
The definitive guide to Trolls
In response to this thread I decided it was time to sit down and compile a clear definition of a troll followed by some examples, links and ways to deal with them. Please feel free to add your thoughts. I am not the original author of much of this material, in fact most of it is blatently borrowed from the sites linked at the bottom. I am merely the one who compiled the information for this thread.
An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Trolls delight in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
A classic troll tries to make us believe that he is a skeptic. He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. A troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them.
While he tries to present himself as a skeptic looking for truth ... his messages usually sound as if it is the responsibility of other forum members to provide evidence that what forum is all about is legitimate.
]He (and in at least 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.
Sometimes, he is skeptical, trying to scare people, trying to plant fear in their hearts. Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.
Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it, or to report a message to a forum moderator. Ubuntuforums moderators usually move troll messages to the jail and may even ban trolls after a few unheeded warnings. Negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.
Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.
When trolls are completely ignored they sometimes step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed. Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a moderator is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, we have to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself. For this reason the staff here often intervene, either with a warning in a thread, jailing one or more posts, sending private messages to offenders, and even banning people--temporarily or permanently--from these forums.
As an idea, the next time you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, maybe you could just write a follow-up message in the thread entitled "Troll Alert" and type something like this:
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and not to respond to trolling messages. It is well known that most people don't read messages that nobody responds to, while 99% of forum visitors first read the longest and the largest threads with the most answers.
The goal of the Ubuntuforums is to provide a place where people wanting to share experiences using Ubuntu or Linux in general can do so as well as give and receive technical assistance in a friendly, pleasant environment. Trolls disturb and disrupt community and are neither welcomed nor tolerated. There are lots of "free speech" forums available for political, religious, "not safe for work" and family-unfriendly sorts of interactions. If you feel the need to troll, please seek out one of these places.
----Troll Spotting----
Trolls often have many basic characteristics in common:
1. Low post count. Trolls usually do not last long enough on a forum to rack up a large number of posts. Be particularly suspicious of any poster whose count is not yet in double digits and who appears to be causing trouble.
2. Suspicious IP addresses. Puppet accounts will have IP addresses identical to that of the TiQ.
3. Suspicious E-mail Addresses. Accounts that are similar in nature to those of the TiQ can indicate a puppet account. AOL accounts, for example, are particularly suspect, because AOL allows multiple usernames for a single account.
4. Syntax and grammar. Trolls, particularly Deceptives, invariably have trouble hiding their writing styles. Puppet accounts, or serial accounts created after previous accounts have been thoroughly discredited, will display traits similar to that of the TiQ.
These links are the source of much (almost all) of what is contained here. They also go into much greater detail than I have.
|newby [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:51 pm ]
|Post subject:
Trista and pretty much all the others so far in this forum.
You guys are idiots. No one here has answered my questions. They are all legitimate questions. Questions that a newby like me would have.
You guy need to be kicked out of here.
Trista, you still have not answered my last questions, which could only mean you are the troll here. Fedora 20, pathetic. You don't belong here.
|Junichirô [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:58 pm ]
|Post subject:
Maybe you don't know (Because you didn't read the links Tristan gave) how to totally free a Fedora and add Blag themes and icons? There is no new blag release for now. So you can use a f20 totally free or test GdNewHat.
newby wrote:
Hello Tristan,
You recommended using Fedora 20. Weird! You don't seem to understand the Freedom Software movement. Fedora 20 is not supportive of this movement, as found in the gnu official web-site. Therefore, why are you in a Freedom Software forum when you clearly don't share the same values?
Because he read the forum and the links he gave; so he knows how to free fedora 20: http://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/freed-ora.en.html
The idiots who know are less idiot than the idiot who doesn't know!
|tristan [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:56 am ]
|Post subject:
newby wrote:
and pretty much all the others so far in this forum.
You guys are idiots. No one here has answered my questions. They are all
legitimate questions. Questions that a newby like me would have.
You guy need to be kicked out of here.
Trista, you still have not answered my last questions, which could only
mean you are the troll here. Fedora 20, pathetic. You don't belong
If you continue in such a manner i will personally demand that you be
warned or
simply banned from this forum.
Blag is a community
We respect Freedom & the philosophy of free software that is well
explained by the FSF,FSFLA,GNU.org...
Blag has a bit more to it.In many senses it is not an ordinary
GNU/Linux distribution.
II can understand certain frustrations or misunderstandings(you can
read all my threads ..and as a newby i encoutered many difficulties but
got a lot of help .
our systems become LIBRE=FREED-ORA
see all the threads on this (FREED-ORA) that have been posted on this
But i encourage anyone to read ancient threads .
We also have been very happy with the development of GdNewHat(read
threads for further info)....!they have done a great job ;-)
FSF,FSFLA,EFF;GNU.org fight for peoples FREEDOM..by acting the way you do
is harmfull to all the community .
here is
is the best way to have a FREED-ORA
and running
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RV Rental Firm CanaDream Creates iPad App
July 21, 2011 by RVBusiness Comments Off on RV Rental Firm CanaDream Creates iPad App
Calgary-based CanaDream Corp. has been renting out recreational vehicles for more than 15 years, with locations in six provinces and territories. Although there are various high-tech aspects to the company's business, including the software it uses for booking and reservations, it was a recent digital endeavor that got customers buzzing – an iPad app.
The Globe and Mail, Toronto, reported that six years ago, CanaDream began working on a project to develop a GPS-based tool that would offer RV users access to nearby points of interest, CEO Brian Gronberg says. CanaDream initially designed the software for GPS navigational units, which at the time were still growing in popularity. But that all changed in 2010.
"We were all set to launch (the software) a year ago on GPS screens," Gronberg explains. "And then they announced the iPad, and we went 'stop' – the technology has caught up with the idea."
The company quickly reworked the software for the larger tablet screen, and it soon signed deals with its carrier partners to give RV customers access to data through cellular or Wi-Fi connections, making the CanaDream app accessible on the road.
The idea is simple. The app essentially picks up a user's location and offers information about nearby points of interest such as camping sites. The almost 3,000 options are collected from CanaDream's 700 or so partners. In addition, customers get access to special discounts from those partners.
Just as they rent RVs, customers can now also rent iPads from CanaDream, or bring their own and download the app from the company's website or on Apple's iTunes store. A version of the app is publicly available for anyone to use, but only the RV rental customers get access to the discounts feature.
The explosive growth of consumer tablets has proven to be a boon for many small businesses, from restaurants that now use them as menus, to traveling salespeople who can do video displays of their products on the spot. Unlike major technological investments, tablet apps often cost relatively little, and they are easily distributed through various app stores.
But there's another advantage. Unlike the somewhat more fragmented smart phone market, the tablet industry is still essentially a one-device arena. Because Apple's iPad still dominates sales, small and medium-sized businesses can usually get away with designing an app specifically for that device, rather than paying extra for a presence on multiple platforms.
For now, Gronberg says CanaDream is focusing on adding more destinations and discounts to the app, in the hopes that the location-specific information and discounts it provides RV users will distinguish it from the competition.
"Yes there's all kinds of guidebooks out there," he says, "but sifting through it all to make the information applicable is always a very tedious job."


text:
Digitally Downloaded writes: "While Sony hasn't mentioned anything with regards to pricing, if we look closely at modern technology business models, and Sony's own directions in recent years, the idea of selling the PlayStation 4 for free is not one that would surprise me if it eventuates."
It won't be free. It will have a price tag. Gamers are not in the habit of paying an on-going subscription fee for hardware. Software/services, sure. Hardware that they can resell? No.
So, I won't be surprised that it is "free" because I know it won't be free.
You clearly didn't read the article.
I read the article. It made it pretty clear...
um, I'm pretty sure he did and he pretty much summed it up.
"It's a sales model that Sony has already experimented with - I bought my PlayStation Vita that way last year. "
Seriously? I don't remember Sony going this way, I remember there was layaway and such, but nothing from Sony.
This is pretty much using a credit card in a way. There's no way it'll be free, that's just plain dumb. Sony won't be able to keep up with the demand, and no one wants to lock-in a contract for a hardware that isn't specified to a retail. The difference between Phones and this is that i can go to Verizon wireless if I can pay my contract, ect ect.
Lets not forget, Retailers buy these consoles, it's not sony selling them directly to us. When they say "Shipped" sales it means sold to retails.
I read it
***The idea here is that, rather than buy the console for an upfront cost, Sony could consider offering a mobile phone-style contract that comes with a monthly bill. So for instance you take the PlayStation 4 home with you for free, and then pay $AU50 a month for the console and a PlayStation Plus subscription over the course of two years. ***
That's an on-going subscription fee for hardware. Meaning a few things:
1. You can't sell it to someone else because it has the contract that is tied to you and your account until you've paid the full subscription period out. It may even restrict account usage on the machine during this period of time.
2. If you decide to get rid of it early, you pay a fee.
3. You are paying for a service that you may not even need and will only increase the cost of the console itself.
4. Overall cost will equal at least 25% more, closer to 50% more, as if you had just paid for the hardware. They will want to make money in interest to make up for not getting the money in one flat sum up front.
5. Gamers are very big on the concept of 'I own it, it's mine to do with as I please' which is not going to be possible with a device like this. As it is covered by a subscription fee, there will be limitations that you will have to agree to during the subscription period that will make it impossible to do things some people normally would.
The people who buy the $99 360 consoles w/XBLive for 24 months (which are not many to say the least) are not 'gamers'. Gamers buy their hardware at a set price and use it from there. They don't like to be tied down with subscription rules and needs based on this hardware.
Don't see what else there is to understand about there not being a 'free' PS3 at release.
Yes, I know I'm generalizing gamers, but I'm doing it in an arena where I'm sure most would agree that they wouldn't want to pay more for a console just to pay it off overtime when they already are invested in a hobby with higher costs than others (and have done so through times when it was even more expensive to afford).
If you want proof of my opinion, check out a few of the response already on here. Specifically #3 and #4.
@Logicwins: It's not going to cost $25/month or anything close to that low. It's going to be priced at least 25% above MFG Retail price with a plan to make the money back within 2 years, if not sooner. Couple that with the 'service' they are providing, which currently is on its own $50/year. If they did this, it will cost upwards of $45/month using this sort of methodology. Sure, it would be neat to pay $350 for a new console on lay-away. But, the PS4 likely isn't going to cost that low to begin with. And they're going to want to make interest on the money that they are not getting up front as well.
They've been doing stuff like this in Australia for years.
eg. https://www.optus.com.au/sh...
@BityByDeath: That's also in the U.S., though it's $99 to start and 24 months of XBox Live Gold subscription at some ridiculous price per month. I guarantee that the people who by that don't even comprise 5% of the market, let alone 1% in the U.S.
Yea, i agree. It'll never take off to be only going that way as many would rather just pay and be done with it.
Even mobile phones give you the option to buy outright.
"Yea, i agree. It'll never take off to be only going that way as many would rather just pay and be done with it.
Even mobile phones give you the option to buy outright"
MOST people would rather spend $100-$200 for a smartphone and then pay $30 a month. Unless you buy prepaid, EVEN if you buy a smartphone outright($500-$700 for a decent one), you still have to pay that monthly fee for minutes, data, and text.
Two year financing is a great option for people who don't have the money to buy outright. People who usually wait two years for a price drop can buy a console at launch.
And Cgoodno, if Sony does this...it WON'T be $75 a year. Thats ludicrous. I understand how u gt to that number, but Sony would never charge that much. It'll be $200-$250 upfront, then you'll be locked into a $10-$20 a month contract for two years.
Yeah, I'd much rather buy the console at a flat out price, I pay too many bills as it is, I don't want another one to remember...
The subscription plan is basically just poor people financing... Like Rent-A-Center. It's designed to take advantage of people who can't amass the $400 (or whatever price) to pay flat out, and also don't have good credit. So they charge a small down payment (enough to recoup any potential loss if the buyer quits paying x months in) and the HUGE price per month for the subscription to cover the rest of the console and basically a finance charge. I don't think Sony would do it... Why are we even having this discussion??? Who writes this stuff???
while I don't think it'll be free, it would be nice to get it cheaper with a ps+ subscription. I mean, I'm going to subscribe anyway, so it would be nice to have the price off the console cut, basically, for nothing.
and if they can make an interesting gaikai subscription (something like games unlimited) I would subscribe to that to.
It didn't do anything substantial to sales for the 360; why should Sony try it?
I think we've matured past the "oohh, cell phones are hot right now! Let's do everything that the phones do and expect the same success!" fad. Yes, cell phones are successful....as phones/mobile computers.
Then again, lots of publishers are still trying to duplicate COD and its success, so maybe I'm giving too much credit...
I love what you have to say except for one part.
"...they wouldn't want to pay more for a console just to pay it off overtime..."
They have actually done this for millions of consoles already. Remember the argument that the PS3 was too expensive at launch and the Xbox 360 was cheaper? Look now 7 years later how much has been paid for that cheapera ta launch Xbox. Many, many people forked over Xbox Live for 7 years, some paid for Wifi, some paid for a larger, outrageously more expensive HDD, some even paid for a HDD DVD player.
There are plenty of gamers that put over $1000 into their Xbox buying basics such as online MP and a HDD.
Quite a few people are willing to pay a ton of money in the long run for something that appears cheap up front. Places such as Rent America thrive on these types of consumers willing to pay $5000 over time for $600 worth of furniture.
While I do not think this will be Sony's only pricing model at launch I do think it will be available, if not at the premiere of the console then shortly after.
"Gamers are very big on the concept of 'I own it, it's mine to do with as I please' which is not going to be possible with a device like this."
I don't know what "data" you base your findings on, but my personal experience with others, is they just want the latest and greatest now, and they spend gobs of money to get it, even if it is at a loss i.e. early adopters unwilling to wait for a sale.
That is why they rush out to buy games, the first day it is released!
"You can't sell it to someone else because it has the contract that is tied to you and your account until you've paid the full subscription period out."
I have not read the fine print, but I believe with phones you can sell it, anytime you want. As long as the creditor (or the phone company in this case) gets their monthly fee. The creditor at least hasn't had a history of banning sales of contract locked phones sold to consumers.
"Gamers buy their hardware at a set price and use it from there. They don't like to be tied down with subscription rules and needs based on this hardware."
Are you sure, this isn't just you? I meet a lot younger gamers, and they are cash strapped. They want their iphone, and their xboxes, not thinking much about their finances long term.
"Don't see what else there is to understand about there not being a 'free' PS3 at release."
I don't think there will be a "free" Playstation either, as there will be an "good faith" payment of some sort.
"If you want proof of my opinion, check out a few of the response already on here. Specifically #3 and #4."
That's hardly proof of anything, merely a VERY SMALL sample supporting your OPINION. Show me real proof, like a market research study. At least, that is based on something.
I could easily point you the opposite, as indicated by:
a) PSN Plus as you don't own the games, you rent them for the duration of your subscription
b) lots and lots of gamers use their console for netflix viewing, which again you don't own the movies
c) Steam and digital sales in general, where there are far more restrictions and less ownership than retail disc, yet plenty of gamers buying it up!
Sorry, I think you are wrong. Instant gratification is basic human nature, and it applies to gamers too!
The thing is, if it were free, they would be the first do to this wouldnt they? The drawback is like all the computer sellers selling all computers for free but to gain the money via a subscription or w/e. But a lot of computer users dont necessarily have to spend anymore money besides internet service provider.
It's gonna cost money and be cheap rather than completely free. If they made something free it would be like a sackboy plush doll or something that cost way less if they wanna throw some freebie out there.
***Look now 7 years later how much has been paid for that cheapera ta launch Xbox.***
That's not a subscription for the hardware, that's a subscription for the service. Two completely different things considering almost 75m 360s sold but ony 40m XBLive accounts. Only half of those estimated to be XBLive Gold memberships. See how the difference here is people can own the hardware, play games, and not have a subscription service?
do to the aronastic-nes of the simplisity i suspect that the ignitial costs and or value of the electronic system (home console) will be in the ranges of what best ocomidates the public opion of self righestness so take that into account and you have the price off the ps4... that price is going to be $400 base and $500 with a larger then base hard drive disk and they will also have a system that cost $100 this is the system that will have monthly fee this subscription also includes playstation plus membership sorry for my english i am not speak english
Ya id rather just buy it with my own low interest credit card, then its mine and i can sell it or what ever i want
***And Cgoodno, if Sony does this...it WON'T be $75 a year. Thats ludicrous. I understand how u gt to that number, but Sony would never charge that much. It'll be $200-$250 upfront, then you'll be locked into a $10-$20 a month contract for two years.***
I'm not sure where you get the $75/year and I think you also aren't understanding that an upfront fee is not "free". That's completely different than what the author is talking about. They're talking about a solely subscription based model of paying off the console, not an upfront fee w/a subscription cost.
***Are you sure, this isn't just you? I meet a lot younger gamers, and they are cash strapped. They want their iphone, and their xboxes, not thinking much about their finances long term. ***
You've met a lot of younger gamers with reasonable credit scores and the ability to sign long-term subscription agreements?
***That's hardly proof of anything, merely a VERY SMALL sample supporting your OPINION. Show me real proof, like a market research study. At least, that is based on something. ***
Wait, you're asking me for proof and not the author? I can provide more proof of the issues people have with subscriptions in general on N4G responses, at the least. At that time, when the article was very early, already two people had said "No" and left it at that. I didn't consider that 'all the proof I needed' but some proof as to how people would respond to a subscription-based console purchase.
Don't go off on me for that if you're not going to recognize that A) there isn't a trend for this sort of thing in video games B) no proof has been provided by the author who shared solely opinion on this matter without any proof, not even equal to what I provided last night.
If you want, you can take in the other responses that have come since then. At least it's a bigger poll of what people think than what the author of this op-ed used for his thoughts on this.
***a) PSN Plus as you don't own the games, you rent them for the duration of your subscription ***
Is not buying hardware with a subscription plan.
***b) lots and lots of gamers use their console for netflix viewing, which again you don't own the movies ***
Is not buying hardware with a subscription plan.
***c) Steam and digital sales in general, where there are far more restrictions and less ownership than retail disc, yet plenty of gamers buying it up!***
Is not buying hardware with a subscription plan.
***Sorry, I think you are wrong. Instant gratification is basic human nature, and it applies to gamers too! ***
We will agree to disagree, but as I ask you to at least understand the basic differences in a subscription model for hardware versus buying/subscribing to digital content. Even Cell phones aren't a subscription model for hardware, you're only paying for the service each month. That's why you can buy a cellphone with that model and sell it if you want. As long as you continue to pay them for the monthly service, they don't care. They will charge you a hefty fee for cancelling early, though.
We clearly have a failure to communicate lol.
50$ a month for 2 years. Comes to a total of $1200 for a console. Yes it makes a lot of sense. The difference between mobile and consoles is because mobile requires a data plan in order to access internet where wifi is not available. Consoles are home devices and can access internet if you have internet. That is the reason why you can buy you vita the way you did. Xbox went this similar route which I dunno anyone in there right mind would do.
they won't be charging you 50$ a month for nothing... while for a mobile phone you will anyway want to have a data plan, for a console you will want to buy games.
what if the subscription grants you a free game download a month. yeah you're still paying 1200$ over 2 years, you will have spent less on games
I agree with Kayoss. Fifty Aussie bucks a month is about $52 in the US. That's so unsustainable for many, many people. Including kids, who are still a target demographic group for the system, and would most likely get a console as a gift.
To directly link this with smartphone payments is to totally miss the boat on the modern necessity of smartphones. They're pretty much what a major phone company offers now, and they're a de facto communication method. People gave up their landlines and adopted cellular, and now it's moving on to smartphones. They replaced one payment with another. Consoles would be an entirely new payment if it's that much per month. It's an *extra* monthly payment. Plus, there's hardly any competition in the smartphone biz - data plans are jacked up because big phone companies can do that. There isn't that level of, or potential for, collusion like that in the games industry because of PC's. So far, at least. Heck, maybe the next consoles will be N-Gage taco phones, I don't know.
There's no way they'd start out of the gate with day-one free downloads of good games every month. Not because that wouldn't be fair, or possible, but because of game publishers and the price they put on their IP and titles. It's way easier to have an instant collection of older games - making those deals with third parties is way easier to do. "Want kids to buy Warhammer: Space Marine used, or want *us* to pay you some cash to make it a free Plus download? That's what I thought."
I'd say a $20 per month subscription which includes Plus the way it is (only cloud-enabled with Gaikai) and a smaller ($300 or under at launch) price on the console would remove loss-leader status from the console itself and net Sony a ton in the long run - way after they've paid for the extra cost in making that console, they've got you there for years. Can't make the payments - all your licenses to play games (including physical-media games) goes away. We're already getting there anyway - it's why I'm moving toward the PC Dark Side.
That, of course, assumes they'd cater to only those who have a broadband connection. Which isn't everyone yet.
***what if the subscription grants you a free game download a month. yeah you're still paying 1200$ over 2 years, you will have spent less on games***
How many people will play that many games in a year?
What type of games are available? Are they even all available?
Will we get day one releases of games?
Will we be able to always own and play those games or only for as long as we subscribe?
PS+ is an awesome tool for $50/year. You get a ton of games you can play anytime you want, great deals on game sales. But even then, it's not for everyone. People don't like the restricted game model because they don't know if they will like the game or not. The very same issues can arise when you take that subscription model to the next level.
Well...just for giggles, lets look at this scenario.
Sony says you can buy the PS4 $150 cheaper if you pay for the quarterly subscription to PS+ for 2 years. The quarterly cost for 2 years of PS+ is $144.
Now for people like me that would be great, because I would have PS+ anyways...and while I'd spend $50 more over 2 years, I'd still save $100 overall. Not too shabby.
But then you get the people who see $18 every three months as a pretty good way to get the system...after all it's only $6 a month. Sony now gets lots of people on board with PS+, and they are drawn to the cheaper system. It's not too much to assume that when the 2 years is up that many people would continue to use the service, thus continue paying for it. Many may never update their payment info, which means they will just continue a constant revenue stream.
In this scenario it gives them a bigger install base, with more games being sold(generating more revenue), and a possibility of a long term revenue stream through subscriptions. The actual amount they'd lose would be higher at the beginning, but they would recoup a lot more over the long term, without as much need to advertise PS+ to get people interested in it.
I agree with most of your comments though, it's unlikely to happen, and if anything they'd make a monthly subscription at $9.99 or something to recoup more money. I find my scenario to be pretty decent though, but business doesn't work like that.:(
yep. if they sell you the console for 150$ less because of a subscription, they are having a bigger loss upfront and will want to make more money overall to compensate. they would have to find a was to make a more expensive subscription.
Exactly! See, this piece is designed to make you think, explore things that aren't commonplace business decisions.
One other thing: imagine the absolute crazed insanity at launch if there's a Free-$200 buy in price (plus subscription contract). People will see the low price first and foremost, and the media will eat it all up, putting massive attention onto Sony's PS4, while reversing the idea that the console isn't affordable at launch.
It's risky, it's really risky, but it's a risk that could pay off big time in the long term for Sony.
***Sony says you can buy the PS4 $150 cheaper if you pay for the quarterly subscription to PS+ for 2 years. The quarterly cost for 2 years of PS+ is $144.***
Sony already sold the PS3 @$600 at a loss this generation. Do you really think with a subscription plan that they are going to start making even more of a loss over a 2-year period?
Sorry, but that logic isn't sound. If it's going to be a subscription plan, they are going to end up charging you more for the hardware over time, not less.
What you describe would make absolutely zero sense as not only would they not be making any money up front, but they would be losing that money over two years now, meaning a slower intake of cash to put towards further development with less to put towards it over the first two years.
No, I don't think Sony would do it, probably not with the example that I used up above at least. They would have to recoup a significant amount of money over 2 years(or whatever) to make it worth the time spent waiting for the money to come in. Same principle with cell phones, and why they lock you into an overpriced data plan to get those expensive smart phones cheap.
What I described was more of a general example, and not meant to be specific. I felt numbers would help elaborate the point better.
There are certain advantages to Sony with a subscription plan, namely in making the system more affordable to more people at launch. It could go a long way in helping them becoming a dominate force in the market like with the PS2. Whether it's widely accepted really depends on the perceived value of the actual plan itself.
N4g is trolling with the new ps4 and xb720 sections lol ;)
I can see it happening imagine if they had say 10 million users paying them $50 a month for 2 years? That's some serious CASH! Of course it would be far cheaper to go our and buy a console but MS proved last generation getting it cheaper day 1 rather than in the long haul is what people prefer. As the 360 over 7 years was far more expensive thanks to XBL than PS3.
This functions the same way Microsoft's does except there isn't an upfront fee.
" Gamers are not in the habit of paying an on-going subscription fee for hardware. Software/services, sure. Hardware that they can resell? No. "
Not to take of the argument, but software (games) is something that gamers are able to resell as well.
Uhh Avast reports malware virus on this site guys, don't go and someone with permissions needs to report this now.
is what is going to happen!
Though not free, subsidized PS4 or not, PS+ with Gaikai will be the new Netflix of video gaming content...I promise you.
no way jose
Why not? Explain yourself. I think its a great idea. Telling someone that they can get a PS4 upfront for cheap with the addition of monthly payments(with the inclusion of PS Plus) is an exciting proposition. It would also make more people aware of PS Plus. Once the 2 year contract is up, people will see how many features/games they will lose by not having PS Plus...therefore, they will resubscribe.
I'd actually go as far to say that Sony would be stupid not to at the very least give consumers this monthly fee option. Microsoft's already doing it with the 360, so you know they will do it with the 720...the only difference is that Sony subscription fee will likely be the one to offer the most value.
No, logic, it is not a great idea. I cant even believe anyone would say this. Are you a business man, or a gamer? Ps plus is already enough. What they can do is give you ps plus for free for a couple of months when you pay full price for the console. Then, people will see if they like the service or not.
I think it would be a great idea, and I say this as a gamer, because it would make the console very affordable for a lot of people at launch, and that would put them way ahead on the market and make the system a lot more appealing for studios and publishers (the more consumers available, the more games they will sell). The only thing that I wonder is what measures would they take against people who don't pay. I'm going to imagine that they will put a lock on the unit itself, but that also means that the console will require to always be online to work? I guess they could also go around that by making it where you have to sign in at least once a month for the system to check status. idk, just brainstorming
You're basing this off the assumption that all consumers pay their bills on time. A deal like this might attract those who don't make a steady living. For any company, that's a liability.
n4g HATES subscriptions haha. So much so, it doesn't even want the option to be available.
Nice thinking there, Darth. It's hard to think of a way to treat people who wouldn't pay without it being anti-consumer. The best way would be that every time you connect the console it unlocks until the end of the month, but they would have to be pretty confident the PS4 is unhackable. Blocking the whole console for not paying is also a bit harsh...
Ya I don't see why logic gets disagreed to. What is wrong with the scenario that you can CHOOSE this kind of payment? To you as a gamer? To Sony? To anyone? Seriously what is wrong with it?
I think it's possible we'll see a $200 USD (approx.) price tag, with a PS+ subscription/contract stapled along with it. Heck, I'll buy day one, without a moments hesitation if this is true - I'll stay subscribed to PS+ regardless.
"The idea here is that, rather than buy the console for an upfront cost, Sony could consider offering a mobile phone-style contract that comes with a monthly bill. So for instance you take the PlayStation 4 home with you for free, and then pay $AU50 a month for the console and a PlayStation Plus subscription over the course of two years."
I'd actually be up for something like that(for $25 or $30) a month.
I think it would be 20-30 dollars as well. Making the overall cost of the system to be around 480-720 dollars after the 2 year deal. That doesn't include late fees or interest.
It all comes down to the cost of the system at the end of the day, before anyone of us can tell if this will work out for Sony. I believe it's working fairly well for Microsoft.
we already do this in our country . even poor people have iphones and stuff like that because they pay every month for the device...
we also have something called (jm3yh). 3 is a letter in arabic, english doesnt have it.
people them selfs do it and sometimes schools do it (teachers not students though).no benefits like the way the company's do :) . lets say 10 persons joined and each pay 10bd for 10 months . so the total will be 100bd each month . this 100bd will go to one person and that will make him pay 9 months without getting anything because he already got the 100bd ..
you see . this way people will get over some bad conditions or to get money faster for something they want or Guarantee they will get 100bd in one of these months ( in other words keeping money for future)
I am a gamer that likes to pinch his pennies, but I would rather save and pay up front than have this monthly bill hanging over my head. Something goes wrong, lose a job or emergency car problem then you come up short on the fifty a couple of times, bang no more PS4.
My credit is crap so I'll take a PS4 upfront thank you.
I can only imagine over 1000 people waiting in line and then suddenly hearing it's free, it would be hilariously chaotic
nah, monthly payments are a hassle.
i'd rather just save up and pay for it whole
Its not really free, u still have to pay.
I want some of what's the autor is smoking !!
How do you sell something that's free?
LOL I can't believe you have 3 disagrees.
To the idiots that disagreed with you....
In order to "sell" something, there must be an exchange of either monetary or product/service of equal value (like an Iphone for a Galaxy or hard labor) determined by both parties...buyer and seller.
If something is for free then that product or service is being "given away" and not sold since there is no exchange being made of anything of equal value...
Bottom line is, you can't "sell" something for free since there is no actual sale being made.
And that is why "free" is in quotation marks. All you and CommonSense are doing is pointing out the obvious.
Regarding of pointing out the obvious, you can't disagree with it. Obvious or not, you don't disagree when captain obvious points it out.
All anyone EVER does on N4G is point out the obvious or troll.
BTW, "the idea of selling the PlayStation 4 for free is not one that would surprise me if it eventuates" does not have quotes around free or selling.
yeah... screw this who wants more options to purchase a console that makes no sense -_-
Yeah no. I'd rather pay a flat amount and own the thing. Reason? Because I can afford to do so and I'd rather not involve myself in any contract bullshit whenever avoidable.
Screw that Xbox 360 contract bullshit. Yea just pay more over time for both XBL and the Xbox 360.. Sounds logical.
If you have that much trouble saving money for a console maybe you shouldn't be buying them in the first place.
So something similar to the $99 Xbox deal with 2 year contract.
Let's wait and see what M$ has to offer before jumping ship.
Maybe they can come up with something even better than ps+, maybe M$ will give us money for using their service. Lol
will sony next gen console have plus? i have plus for the ps3. can i use the plus services for my ps3 on my ps4?will you have to pay for plus for the ps4 seperately? will the ps4 plus be connected to cloud gaming? i have alot of questions. i hope they get answered soon.. lol
"While Sony hasn't mentioned anything with regards to pricing..."
sony hasn't mentioned anything with regards to anything related to the next playstation, let alone pricing...
and no, they will not sell it for $0, nor will they implement any kind of rent-to-own/contract system.
Was microsoft Succesful with there $99 console payment plan?


text:
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High Performance Computing Solutions
- Life sciences research organizations
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text:
|Ridley Park, Pa.
|High School:
|Business Administration
2012: Begins his senior campaign with the Spartan squad ... named a captain for this season ... possesses great size and strength ... will be a disruptive force on the defensive end ... has gained quality experience over his career that should translate into quality performances this year.
2011: Played in 11 games for the Green and White, starting eight contest for York ... collected ten ground balls on the season.
2010: Played in eight games for the Spartans as a defenseman ...battled injury during the season ... grabbed seven groundballs ... caused four turnovers.
2009: Appeared in nine games for the Spartan squad ... started in his first collegiate game, York's season-opening contest against Roanoke on February 21 ... snagged five groundballs on the year.
Personal: Is a business administration major ... is the son of Jim and Shelia Glenn ... born on February 16, 1990 ... played for Headstrong Lacrosse Club ... accolades include High School Nick Collelouri "Relentless" Award and Club National Championships runner-up in 2008 ... names his parents as the people he most admires ... hobbies include skiing, mountain biking, hiking, and ice hockey ... favorite athlete is Scott Hartnell ... chose York because the campus is beautiful and the Grumbacher Center ... most significant athletic achievement as making it to the club lacrosse national championships in high school ... most memorable athletic momment while at York as the 2009 home game vs. Salisbury ... after graduation he plans on moving west for awhile to enjoy the outdoors and begin a succesful career in business.


text:
I personally am loving this Zoomie Kids Cristina 2 Drawer Nightstand. First it arrived when it said it was going to. And then when it did I just loved it. Perfect color and price. I will probably buy another color for my friend too. Recommend this product!
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2. Prealert your packages. For packages under $100 save $3 of AeroProtect.
3. Use our online calculator to get an estimate of the import costs for the product you're interested in, and make sure it's more convenient to buy it online.
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5. Ask your provider to send your order in as few shipments as possible.
6. Sign-up with your favorite online stores and receive their notifications when they have sales and special offers.
7. Take advantage of US holidays; it's when they offer the best sales.
I was searching for a gift to send someone in a secret santa exchange and as soon as I saw this nightstands I knew it would be perfect! So cute! Simple and elegant. Bought one for myself and for a friend and she loved it.
I bought this nightstands as a New Year gift for my daughter. It is just as described online. nightstands looks nice although i feel it's over priced. Should come with nicer packaging for the price. Top 0 Reasons Why Online Shopping Is Better Than Offline Shopping
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I needed a simple nightstands, and found this at the top of the search. I can see why it's so popular. The nightstands is PERFECT. Yes I'm shouting but this is a great nightstands. If I ever need another color, I'll happily purchase. It also fit true to size. I purchased my usual as well as one size up, and the usual fit perfectly.
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NU Council considers TIF District for apartment complex
NEW ULM – The question of whether the City of New Ulm should approve a TIF district for a proposed 50-unit apartment complex will be discussed during the next few months after the City Council approved looking into the issue on Tuesday.
The apartment project is part of the recent development on a site near a portion of the MLC campus. It hopes to attract senior renters from MLC graduates and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod retirees. The private business Doneff Companies is running the project and its construction near 5th North and Highland Avenue is tentatively scheduled to begin in June.
Doneff requested a TIF district after a bank indicated the project would not be financially feasible without a TIF district or similar assistance.
James Thomas, representing management of Sunset Apartments in New Ulm, told the council he was concerned about a private business being subsidized by the City if it would compete with Sunset, which is a nonprofit business. Sunset Apartments, which was originally for senior citizens, is severely limited in what it can do about rental rates due to heavy regulation, Thomas said. Although he is not necessarily opposed to a TIF district, he urged the Council to consider whether the project is a good idea for the city.
City Manager Brian Gramentz said the motion, which was unanimously approved by the Council, only allows the City to charge Doneff the cost of looking into the negatives and positives of the development. The entire process would take four months to complete if the Council choses to proceed, Gramentz said.
TIF districts operate by having the recipient pay regular property taxes, then be reimbursed a portion by the county. The process would not cost the City. The intent behind TIF districts is the projects are not a loss of property tax revenues, because they are targeted at projects that would not have happened without the assistance.
Tax Forfeiture Sale
The Council approved Brown County's plan for selling the property obtained through tax forfeiture of the Dakotah West Subdivision and the Minnesota River Valley Subdivision.
Because the property was not sold and taxes were not paid on the properties, the City must cover the unpaid special assessments. The sale is aimed at recovering money for the special assessments. The proceeds beyond covering unpaid costs will be split among the taxing authorities of the City, Brown County and District 88.
The individual lots will be auctioned off on April 30, with the lots being sold individually. However, the entire Dakotah West Subdivision can still be bought before the auction if an interested party contacts and buys the property from Brown County.
Legislation Support
The Council also approved official support for two bills in the Minnesota Legislature that could benefit New Ulm.
The first bill proposes reforms to Local Government Aid (LGA), which also increases the state's total appropriations by $80 million. The new formula would be less complex and consistent with its funding levels, as compared to the current system. It also calculates the LGA funds distribution based on a city's needs and adds a formula that would keep pace with inflation.
Gramentz said the City supports the bill because the current system prevents it from accurate budgeting. Furthermore, New Ulm would get a slight increase in total funding over several years.
The second bill will allow Minnesota cities to establish Municipal Street Improvement Districts, The Council's resolution is only based on passage of the bill. City participation would be voluntary.
The program would allow the City to designate a specific area as a district and set up an annual fee for future street repairs. It would be less burdensome than special assessments. It would save money by not requiring bonding for the street repair funds, because the fees would be paid before a project begins.
The Council noted that if the bill does pass, it will hold discussion on implementation of the program. One issue is how to be fair to people who paid the fee, but moved before the project is completed.
(Josh Moniz can be e-mailed at email@example.com)


text:
New open source benchmark provides an alternative to Dhrystone
WHAT: ARM today announced their support for the new EEMBC (Embedded Microprocessor Benchmark Consortium) CoreMark processor benchmark.
CoreMark is a synthetic benchmark, but carries out meaningful calculations, and is claimed to be a significant improvement on current Dhrystone benchmarks which is overly dependent on the performance of the C library.
"ARM has been a board member of EEMBC since its formation in 1997 and welcomes the introduction of the CoreMark benchmark," said Eric Schorn, VP marketing, Processor Division, ARM. "We believe that CoreMark represents a significant improvement on the current Dhrystone benchmarks by measuring processor behavior that could more realistically be expected in a real application. Combined with greater access to the results, this new benchmark should enable developers to obtain an unambiguous representation of processor performance enabling comparisons between competing processors to be made."
EEMBC was established to develop meaningful performance benchmarks for the hardware and software used in embedded systems. Through the combined efforts of its members, EEMBC® benchmarks have become an industry standard for evaluating the capabilities of embedded processors, compilers, and Java implementations according to objective, clearly defined, application-based criteria. Since its formation, EEMBC's membership has grown to more than 50 members.
WHO: ARM designs the technology that lies at the heart of advanced digital products, from mobile, home and enterprise solutions to embedded and emerging applications. ARM's comprehensive product offering includes 16/32-bit RISC microprocessors, data engines, graphics processors, digital libraries, embedded memories, peripherals, software and development tools, as well as analog functions and high-speed connectivity products. Combined with the company's broad Partner community, they provide a total system solution that offers a fast, reliable path to market for leading electronics companies. More information on ARM is available at http://www.arm.com.
ARM is a registered trademark of ARM Limited. All other brands or product names are the property of their respective holders. "ARM" is used to represent ARM Holdings plc; its operating company ARM Limited; and the regional subsidiaries: ARM, Inc.; ARM KK; ARM Korea Ltd.; ARM Taiwan Limited; ARM France SAS; ARM Consulting (Shanghai) Co. Ltd.; ARM Belgium N.V.; AXYS Design Automation Inc.; ARM Germany GmbH; ARM Embedded Technologies Pvt. Ltd.; and ARM Norway, AS.
ARM Press Contacts
Lorna Dunn
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Email: firstname.lastname@example.com
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Email : email@example.com


text:
- It has a 1.8 Inch TFT display.
- The Phone comes with 10 MB RAM .
- The device comes with a 0.3 MP Rear camera .
- It comes with 10MB of built-in storage which can further be expanded using a microSD, Up to 8 GB.
- Connectivity includes Dual SIM.
- The Device has a non-removable Li-ion 800 mAh battery.
Inflix N6 Price in India
Last Available Price of Inflix N6 is 627. Currently, it is out of stock on online stores in India.. You can search on Flipkart, Amazon.
Inflix N6 Price Chart
Price of Inflix N6 in India today is Rs. 627.00, updated on 19th November 2018
Find dealers & shops for Inflix N6 mobile phone in your City:
Inflix N6 Specifications ( Release Date: 24th November, 2016 )
Inflix N6 full specifications and features.
|Screen Size
|1.8 inches
|Screen Resolution
|128 x 160 Pixels
|Pixel Density
|113 Pixels per Inch(PPI)
|Display Type
|Rear Camera Resolution
|Camera Features
|Digital Zoom
|Digital Zoom
|Internal Storage
|Card Slot/Expandable
|microSD, Up to 8 GB
|Expandable up to 8 GB
|Operating System
|Battery Capacity
|800 mAh
|Battery Type
|Removable battery
|SIM Card Slots
|Dual SIM
|SIM Card Type
|SIM 1: Normal-SIM
SIM2: Normal-SIM
|Yes, v4.0
|3.5 mm Jack
|Yes, GSM 1800 / 1900 / 850 / 900 MHz
|Other Features
Inflix N6 Key Specifications Review
- Very Small Screen - 1.8 inches Reading, browsing internet and watching videos is more pleasing experience on a bigger screen.
- Not Very Sharp Screen - 113 PPI Lower Resolution will lave less sharp display. Images, videos and text will look less sharp or may appear a bit blurr.
- TFT TFT Screens offer good viewing angles and decrease battery life
- Less RAM - 10 MB Having lots of RAM allows more applications to run at the same time making the phone faster.
- Has Dual SIM Multiple SIM Phones allow you to use multiple sims at the same time without the need to carry multiple mobile phones.
- 0.3 MP Rear Camera Rear Camera enables you to take photos.
- No Front Camera Front Camera enables you to take your own photos and do videocalling (on supported devices).
- No Flash Having a camera flash allows you to take photos in low light.
- No Autofocus Without Autofocus, the camera of the mobile is will not be able to focus on the subject automatically.
- Limited Storage Capacity - 10 MB Less internal storage may limit installation of more apps, storing songs, images, videos, etc.
- Supports Memory Card - microSD, Up to 8 GB Having no Memory cards restricts extra storage capacity. You cannot store more songs, photos and videos.
- Low Battery Life - 800 mAh Lower Battery Life causes quick battery drain & results in frequent charging. The Battery life also depends on screen size, processor, OS, personal useage and other factors.
- Supports 2G With 2G connectivity option you can get all cellular features but stay limited to basic internet facilities.
- Supports Bluetooth You can wirelessly listen to music and calls using bluetooth headsets or even share data.
- Has 3.5mm Headphone Jack 3.5mm Jack enables you to connect to large number of other devices such as speakers, headphones etc...
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Inflix N6 Questions & Answers
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text:
When most people think of an allergy, they think of the sneezing, congestion, and itchy eyes caused by pollen. In fact, allergies can be caused by just about any substance that you inhale or swallow, or that touches your skin. You can also be allergic to shots.
Your body's immune system is designed to attack harmful substances like bacteria and viruses. These reactions are important because they fight infections. But when you are allergic to something, your body develops allergic antibodies (IgE) against it. Your body develops IgE to things you normally come in contact with, such as pollen, pet hair, mold, and dust mites. Most people tolerate these substances without problems. When you have an IgE antibody to something, however, your immune system over reacts. These allergic reactions (hypersensitivity) can be uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous.
Allergies are extremely common, and they are on the rise. Already, about 50 million Americans suffer from allergies, leading to a lot of missed work and school days each year. Annual medical costs already exceed $4.5 billion.
Not only do allergies cause a range of annoying symptoms, such as sneezing and itchy eyes, but they can aggravate or trigger other conditions such as asthma, sinusitis, and ear infections. For example, when allergies cause inflammation in your nasal passages, the opening to your sinuses can become blocked, leading to sinus inflammation, sinus infections, and sinus pain. Similarly, allergies can cause the ears not to drain properly, which can lead to ear infections.
Allergies can cause different skin-related symptoms, such as hives, swelling, and eczema. Some types of allergies (often food allergies) can lead to nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea.
One of the most deadly kinds of allergic reaction is called "anaphylaxis." This is when the entire body has a swift, severe reaction to something such as foods (peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish), latex, medications (penicillin), or insect stings. If anaphylaxis is not treated quickly, the body can go into shock, with a large drop in blood pressure, difficulty breathing, and possible heart failure and death.
To continue to the next step of the allergy guide, click "next" below.
Brozek JL, Bousquet J, Baena-Cagnani CE, et al. Allergic rhinitis and its impact on asthma (ARIA) guidelines: 2010 revision..J Allergy Clinical Immunology. Sept 2010:126(3);466-76.
Meltzer EO, Bukstein DA. The economic impact of allergic rhinitis and current guidelines for treatment. Annals of Allergy and Asthma. Feb 2011:106(2);Suppl 1:S12-16.
What is an Allergic Reaction? American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology, Public Education Committee;2006.


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Bailey's - The Saw Chain Authority
Nobody knows chainsaw chain like Bailey's. Our company started selling chainsaw chain to loggers and arborists back in 1975, so we have several decades of experience serving our customers. Today, we sell to everyone from professional loggers to suburban homeowners. We stock and sell more chainsaw chain than anyone in North America, and our buying power ensures a great price. We have the widest selection of saw chain available, and unlike your local dealer or box store, we stock all major brands. If it's available, we probably have it. Buying chainsaw chain can be confusing at first, but once you understand some basics, it is quite simple. We have broken all chainsaw chain offerings down by the two basic chain measurement, pitch and gauge. Just select an icon below to see all of our options. If you want to see all the chainsaw chain options for your chainsaw model, check out our Saw Chain Selector Guide. It is the best and most up to date selector guide out there.
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text:
Storybook Ball
Guests followed the yellow brick road to The Wizard of Oz-themed Storybook Ball at Heinz Field, benefiting the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Pittsburgh. The 290 guests wandered through Munchkin Land, bidding on auction tables flanked by large lollipops before reaching the Emerald City, where dinner was held amid poppies and emerald-hued décor. Photography by Megan Wylie.Read More


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Network Design should be simple! Simplicity is the first network design best practice that I want you to remember. If you have been in the field long enough, you have probably heard about the KISS principle.
If you are a regular follower of my blog, you have maybe heard about the SUCK principle as well.
KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. But do you really know what the simple part is ? Can every part of the network be a simple ?
Unfortunately NOT ! It just cannot be ! But still you should on simplifying as much of your network as possible.
As I have indicated in the past here, intelligence should be at the edge of the networks and network core should be as simple as possible. If you read the above article, you will see some examples. ( There are different opinions about the place of simplicity in networks. Some researchers believe that if the core has some intelligence the overall network complexity is reduced ).
Networks have many protocols, technologies. Understanding each of them might be easy but interaction between them creates complexity.
In my CCDE training sessions, I like to give the Pepper and Salt example to explain this point.