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Friday, July 31, 2009
How we feel about things is the central concern for people, because emotions mediate between our bodies with their physical perceptions and images of the world and our minds with their concepts and ideas. Physical experiences and the biochemical reactions in our bodies trigger emotions in the consciousness, and the conscious and subconscious responses of our emotional feelings stimulate biochemical processes in the body. Human beings are well integrated systems, and any separation between the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual is artificial, merely for purposes of analysis.
Anger: a very active with forceful emotional energy directed toward someone. It is usually triggered by some outward event which provokes a reaction. This event may be a direct attack, threat, or insult or the frustration of a desire or attempt to control or manipulate a situation.
Anxiety: experienced when many fears, which are not clearly perceived or understood, are felt subconsciously. The complexity of our contemporary society tends to promote anxiety because of the dangers which are difficult to understand, remedy, or avoid.. A variant of anxiety is related to desire and is impatience or being anxious for something to happen or afraid of what might happen.
Desire: a sense of longing for a person or object or hoping for an outcome. The same sense is expressed by emotions such as "craving" or "hankering". When a person desires something or someone, their sense of longing is excited by the enjoyment or the thought of the item or person, and they want to take actions to obtain their goal.
Eagerness: an enthusiasm that anticipates the fulfillment of a desire. Thus joy is experienced solely because of expectation. Young people tend to be more eager, because they have less experience but more energy and desire. The excitement of eagerness can cause impatience and, if the pleasure anticipated is delayed, consternation. Yet somehow the joy in eagerness prevents it from being sorrowful.
Fear: originated in the basic evolutionary instinct for survival in perceiving and avoiding life-threatening dangers. Thus fear warns us of dangers and moves us to take adaptive action.
Fear can be used to manipulate motivations in order to control people's behavior. Fear of punishment is the main weapon of social control by threatening either to do something negative or remove something positive.
Greed: commercial society constantly promotes it in the process of trying to sell products. Thus these feelings can be very common and socially approved. Nonetheless they can cause discontent and even ruthless competition. Greed is a feeling of never being satisfied with what we have but always wanting more.
Guilt: understood as a social phenomenon that happens between people as much as it happens inside them. Guilt appears to arise from interpersonal transactions and vary with interpersonal context. In particular, guilt patterns appear to be most common, and most consistent in the context of communal relationships, which are characterized by expectations of mutual concern. Guilt serves various relationship-enhancing functions, including motivating people to treat partners well avoid transgressions and redistributing emotional distress..
Jealousy: a specific kind of anger resulting from possessive love, attachment, suspicion, mistrust, fear, and selfishness. Jealousy is a bondage where we place chains on our love and try to hold on to someone or something by restricting them. Basically it grows out of insecurity in a relationship and fear of losing the object of desire.
Love: a good feeling that is actively directed toward someone or something. Love brings enjoyment to what we do; we say, "I love to do that.". Love is also the emphathy; we feel someone's emotions and concerns. Love uplifts people into a higher joy.
Modesty: reluctance to reveal oneself to others either physically, emotionally, mentally, or spiritually. A modest person does not necessarily feel inferior or superior but rather private. Inhibitions against exposing oneself can also prevent sharing and communication. Yet often modesty is a sense of dignity and self-worth which can extend into exclusivism and elitism. Everyone has a right to privacy; and when not extreme, modesty is usually respected. On the other hand, the lack of all modesty in exhibitionism usually indicates vanity or the desire to shock.
Shame: located primarily as a social emotion, with a normative function of monitoring social bonds between people - rather than, as it is usually framed, as a 'self-conscious', 'negative' and 'pathological'emotion. This reframing of the healthier experience highlights the function of shame in building and strengthening relationships.
Worry: a continuing fear or an anxiety that is focused on a particular concern. Worry comes from a lack of faith, a negative view of the future, and a failure to take the needed steps in the present. Fears are designed to warn us to do something or avoid something; but if we fail to act, the fear continues to worry us. If we are wise, worry is completely unnecessary.
170 comments:
- Id it is said...
"An emotion is an emotive reaction of a person to a perception."
Does that imply that if an individual were to have existed in isolation for an extended period of time,say a lifetime, he would not have any perceptions about his reality and would therefore not experience any emotion? Just a thought...
...perhaps this is why and how hermits and monks have a serenity about them which is almost transcends the human; they have established a disconnect from the reality that surrounds them ...
- July 31, 2009 at 6:08 AM
- Rick said...
Hello, Mariana!
Is emotion always in response to perception in your opinion? In my arts we practice the techniques of creating emotion via imagery. So although the imagery (we use body postures, etc. as well) may be caused by the link back to prior circumstances, would you see a difference between "created" emotion and "spontaneous reactive" emotion?
As always, thanks for bringing up such an interesting topic.
- July 31, 2009 at 8:04 AM
- human being said...
emotion is a non-Euclidian locomotion...
emotions are not bad and good in themselves... they are stepping stones in the journey of growth... we should know them one by one (when we encounter them within or without) so that we can pass by them... supressing or ignoring them results in a halt in the journey... thus an immature or defective character...
the knowledge we gain through them leads us to true love and inner peace...
thanks again for starting another thought-provoking and fruitful discussion...
you are a gem!
- July 31, 2009 at 8:35 AM
- Jim Murdoch said...
You can't really define an emotion as an "emotive reaction" because "emotive" means "of or relating to emotion". A better definition (although clearly not a definitive one) would be: "a mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes".
- July 31, 2009 at 11:29 AM
- Charles Gramlich said...
the man who mistook his wife for a hat is also one of my favorite books. But I'm not high on the metamorphosis.
- July 31, 2009 at 12:07 PM
- Carlos Dante Ferrari said...
And what about repentance????
- July 31, 2009 at 12:55 PM
I believe our emotions have created and shaped the outside world rather than vice-versa.
- July 31, 2009 at 5:34 PM
- Harlequin said...
I like how this looks like a closed flower and then it opens... a nice effect.
also, the list and the descriptions are compelling; it reminded me of my return to the world of feelings after many decades of self-medicating with numerous substances.... at the time I was experiencing what I thought was profoundly weird sensations and confusion ... my sponsor at the time told me not to worry... I was " only disappointed" ( !! ). I remember how worried I was after that because I began to suspect there was more in store...
anyway, enjoyable and thought-provoking as usual...thanks.
- July 31, 2009 at 7:44 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
I like: Emotion- the latin emovere, to move out, stir up, excite.
Meaning definitely does this. Where does meaning come from? What makes it move out? What makes it stir up? What excites it?
- July 31, 2009 at 11:08 PM
- TC said...
A brilliant turn of the corner here. Have we all been thinking too much?
Can we really think about a feeling?
Can you think yourself feeling?
A curious synchronicity, just as you posted these thoughts about feelings I was thinking to myself that I've been
feeling funny lately
- August 1, 2009 at 12:33 AM
:) thanks for this Mariana. Very nicely articulated.
- August 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM
- Paul said...
Have you read Sartre's "Sketch For A Theory Of The Emotions"? You have divided them up in a most rational way. I find it a very rare experience when I only feel one with real clarity. As soon as I start thinking about it, others trickle in and muddy it up.
- August 1, 2009 at 1:38 AM
- Uncle Tree said...
I am being pulled in a dozen directions, wondering which emotion(s) I should call to the 'front and center'. One of them may be embarrassed if I choose it over the others. Modesty it is.
Anger expects to be first because it starts with the letter 'a'. It did not desire to be first in the first place. It was born at the top. That's all it knows, so it expects to stay there. It never 'desired' to be there, that's what I'm saying.
Desire has to be placed first. Right? Some desires are inborn, and the world presents the answers for fulfillment. There is no such thing as shame or guilt in a world that is not of our making. Those two emotions have to be taught to people, therefore they are invented and artificial. Or may be accidental. No matter. It's not our 'fault'.
If I could somehow give an extra helping of one of these to a new born baby, which positive emotion would I choose? Or should I say which 'helpful' emotion would I choose? (I doubt that Nature looks upon all these emotions as being divided, as in some good/some bad.)
Looking them over...I find myself wishing to choose 'eagerness'. But I have a hard time seeing it as an emotion. To me it is more like a catalyst. Desire is specific and pertains to the world. Eagerness has to do with the Universe, and naturally it chose 'Life' as the way it wished to express itself.
I'm off on a 'tangent' here, but I did not put it there, either. Mariana, did you have any specific questions in mind about all of these?
- August 1, 2009 at 3:12 AM
- the walking man said...
"Human beings are well integrated systems, and any separation between the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual is artificial,..."
I have to quietly disagree with the above statement. I choose in which state I "live," not according to the capricious whim of outside influence but rather what the goal of the moment is.
I will not be eaten by emotions but rather I will eat them and let the outcome fertilize the world as i am within it.
- August 1, 2009 at 5:00 AM
- justAnotherGeekgirl said...
i love to see all these just like little digital ants on a white surface...and not like terrible forces fighting with my body :) ahhhhh....so nice!!!
- August 1, 2009 at 1:27 PM
- Rob Bryanton said...
Hi Mariana, interesting stuff as always. In my blog today I talked about how maps can be important because they distill information into more useful structures, and you've published a mapping of our emotions. Fascinating.
I've remarked before that music seems to have patterns that resonate at basic levels for us, which is what allows it to communicate emotions across time, space and culture. I see that the picture you published comes from the work of psychologist Robert Plutchik, who I hadn't heard of before - and according to wikipedia he believed these "basic" emotions are biologically primitive, evolving in order to increase our reproductive fitness.
I think it's clear that music, emotions, and empathy are all intimately tied together, don't you?
That has been a recurring theme in my writing. Have you read these older entries?
Your fan,
- August 1, 2009 at 4:24 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Id it is:
It is pretty good your tought, but what that sentence means is that an emotion is a reaction
from a human being, a reaction to a perception (perceiving something, either human being, a sound. an inner sensation any kind of thing). So if this person is going to be in isolation all of it's life it is still
capable to experiment emotions even if it does not ever see another human being in all it s life. Because all you need to
provoke an emotion is a perception and this perception can be of many different kinds.
Anyway I think you are right about heremits and monks having something different than habitual
human beings that live in a society. And they do seem kind of disconnected. This requires deep study, cause I think being isolated from other humans must have an important chemical effect on the brain. I am going to study this deeper and come back.
Here is a short story I like: I once trekked to a high mountain where a hermit lived and asked him, "What value is progress?" The old hermit lit a pipe and thought on it, then nodded and gave me an answer. "It keeps people busy," he said. "But to what end?" I asked. He thought on this some more, and then an answer came to him. "It makes them feel like they matter," he said.
Thanks a lot for stepping by
- August 1, 2009 at 11:16 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Our brains thinks in pictures (among other things). The brain is therefore strongly influenced by the use of vivid imagery. Images are important because they can make us feel a certain way. In other words, Images can affect our emotions. So in this case emotion can be triggered by an inner state, and not by an external perception.
well a spontaneous emotion is easy to understand and know what it is, I think the different with
a created emotion, is that the created one is done on purpose unlike the other one.
Here is an explanation which is pretty clear from a great neuroscientist:
What I found to be perhaps the most revolutionary of Damasio's ideas was his neurobiological explanation for mental imagery and memory. He sets out to disprove the common conception "that what is together in the mind is together at one place in the brain where different sensory aspects mingle." When we conjure up an image in our mind, we are putting together all sorts of remembered sensory information about that image – shapes, colors, smells, feels – and because these all come together in one image in our mind, we assume they must all be stored together in the brain. What Damasio counters with however, is that "there is no single region in the human brain equipped to process, simultaneously, representations from all the sensory modalities active when we experience simultaneously, say, sound, movement, shape and color in perfect temporal and spatial registration." What causes us to perceive all of these factors as linked to one object is in fact only their simultaneity in time, not their interconnectivity in the brain. Damasio calls the integration of different sensory information into one concept a "trick of timing". With obvious Kantian undertones, Damasio places time (and space, in terms of where on the body a stimulus acts) as the ultimate concepts that create our understanding of "absolute reality." A mental image is nothing more than a specific pattern of simultaneously firing sensory neurons. Additionally, Damasio asserts that there is no difference in the mechanism of creation between the image we have in our mind of something as we actively perceive it (the first time that pattern of nerve firings has occurred), and the image we create in our mind when we remember something.
Thank you rick for making me think, and making me wanna learn more stuff, I did not even imagined myself before.
- August 1, 2009 at 11:45 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
human being:
cool opening phrase.
I completelly agree with your long paragraph, it is a fantastic one, thank you for sharing it.
Emotions can leads us to heaven or to hell, depending on how we handle them, how our own brain functions, and also how are things going for us in the outside world. But one thing is for sure, refering to what you said, we could not reach heaven if we didn´t have them.
Thanks to you human for sharing your thoughts, I hope you know I do respect you a lot
- August 1, 2009 at 11:53 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- August 2, 2009 at 12:13 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Charles Gramlich:
Well I guess we share an intrest for psychiatry, but evidentelly not for kafka's work, which does not mean we did not both enjoy other books.
If would recomend you one book that I just finish, very easy to read and very interesting: My Stroke of Insight By Jill Bolte Taylor, who you get interest in it.
- August 2, 2009 at 12:17 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Jim Murdoch:
Let's see if this definition by a scientists works better, cause you are right that the other is not a very happy one.
Defining "emotion" is a notorious problem. Without consensual conceptualization and operational ization of exactly what phenomenon is to be studied, progress in theory and research is difficult to achieve and fruitless debates are likely to proliferate. A particularly
unfortunate example is William James's asking the question "What is an emotion?" when he really meant "feeling", a misnomer that started a debate which is still ongoing, more than a century later.
I like a lot from your definition that you say that they are accompanied by physiological changes. Because I think that is one of the things that clearly distinguish one emotion from the other, your reptil brain functioning, I mean how quick is your hart beating how tense are your muscles, how alert are you and so on ...
Bye JM
- August 2, 2009 at 12:22 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Carlos Dante Ferrari:
Repentance definition:Turning away from sin by changing one's actions to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ. The repentance process consists of feeling sincere regret or sorrow for doing wrong, confessing the sin(s), asking for forgiveness, making restitution for any damage done, and promising not to repeat the sin.
It says is a feeling in most definition, it does not say emotion, which do not seem to be exactelly the same, therefore we can avoid talking about it.(Although I can be wrong about this, I would like to hear from you if you do not think like this what is your opinion about it)
- August 2, 2009 at 12:27 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- August 2, 2009 at 12:41 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I do not agree with you completely, I think is like you say but also upside down. The outside world shapes our emotions, and our emotions shapes the outside world for us.
And what I also think is: Wisdom and peace are found within our selves, not outside our selves.
Take care
- August 2, 2009 at 12:45 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
If you double click on the image you are going to see that it is a diagram of the emotions arranged in a certain way, which I find pretty interesting cause it makes you think why are some emotions near other and some more strong.
Hello my friend, thanks for sharing your story about coming back. I experienced something similar myself, I still find it so hard to feel something and not to freak out, to be sensitive and aware also being calm, the feeling of being alive makes me want to run away sometimes. But I always have hope about life, it always can get better, they can never take awat that chance as long as you are alive.
Thanks a lot for the compliment H
- August 2, 2009 at 12:53 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Ted Bagley:
Intresting, I did not know that definition, thanks for the information.
Where does meaning come from?
Not from individual genius or passive transmission through history. But from collective creation of individuals in everyday interaction.
Meaning is lost when there is a loss of cultural objects related to explicit identity (logo, headquarters location, name).
Individuals rely on culture to express meaning in their lives; here in merging experience.
On everyday basis, people expressing meaning in mergers via cultural object of meetings.
Hope this clarifies some of your doubts Ted
- August 2, 2009 at 1:04 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
You got me Tom I have been to rational for a while.
God question you are asking me there. I was wondering if you can really feel an emotion when you are feeling it and thinking that you are feeling it or if it goes a way the moment rationality comes to stage.
I do not think rationality kills emotions, they certainly do afect them dough, according to your rational thoughts you alter them, tune them towards one place or another. But they can be thought and felt at the same time.
You probably like this sentence tom: Anyway it is always true that the observer alters what it is observed.
Very nice post let me quote a part from yours:
of the dream..
- August 2, 2009 at 1:14 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
lash: I am glad you liked it, and very nice compliment the one you told, cause I am trying with this blog to write as clear and well as possible. By the way you made me learn a new word
articulated: Endowed with the power of speech. Expressing oneself easily in clear and effective language: an articulate speaker.
I guess (proudly with myself) those where the meanings you refered to.
Take care good friend
- August 2, 2009 at 1:53 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I do not think so, I read sartre a very long time ago dough I probably read just a couple of books and I did not liked his philosophy at all, too much existencial questioning for my kind of philosofical reading.
Its curious what you say about my division, it was totally random the process, and specially the ending, where I sort them by alphabetical order.
Interesting what you say about feeling only one emotion clearly; that happens to me when is a really strong and overwhelming feeling what I am experiencing.
But unlike what happens to you I do not feel invaded by other emotions when I start thinking about that single one that is in me now.
I think most of the time we are experiencing several at the same time.
I am honor by your presence Paul, txs for stepping by
- August 2, 2009 at 2:06 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
uncle tree:
If you double clikck on the image you are going to see a diagram about how the emotions are arranged. This diagrame makes sense in a lot of ways, for example it puts order in the strength.
I like you idea of putting desire first, I think you are so right about that, because that emotion is our principal motor, the one that makes us live our lives, do stuff.
Eagerness is not consider an emotion most of the times, but some it is. I like what you say about this one, it is really interesting.
I agree that they are not divided in a good/bad way, people just clasify it like that, but if you think about it a little bit, as long as they help us survive they are usefull and good for us. So all of them can be good, the problem is when they are aplied, because even the so called
"good" emotions can be highly disfunctional.
I was thinking that people could tell what is the one they feel more time, the one they almost never feel. What do people think emotions are usefull for, either each one or all of them. Which one do they think it should not exists.
Thank you for the question uncle, you read my mind actually, I was thinking what did I wanted people to tell me about this. Always ahead my dear uncle tree.
Send you love
- August 2, 2009 at 2:23 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
the walking man:
You are perfectly welcome to disagree about that statment, just think that inside the brain all the different parts and systems are mixed among each other, it is almost impossible to distinguish which neuron belongs to what part of the brain.
I guess that when you say you live your life according to your goal of the moment, you are refering to your own personal desire or will, or am I understanding things bad here?
Your last sentence about eating the emotions seems to be fantastic, in my humble opinion, you are such a good poet, you have it in you.
Thanks for sharing with us your smart thoughts
- August 2, 2009 at 2:34 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
It feels great to see it from the outside, doesn't it? Because from the inside, and on top of that alone it can get pretty ugly.
That was the idea of this post, for people to share and lighten up their thoughts.
Thanks for stepping by justanothergkgl, take care
- August 2, 2009 at 2:36 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
rob Bryanton:
rob, it is amazing how many coincidence and sincronicities we have, It is too much to blame it all on random casualities. Well part of it is probably that our interests are similar, and a weird idea of mine is that our brains might be similar as well.
I read dr jill book, sacks book, minsky book, several of the articles you mention and the book goedel escher and bach which I think it is pretty much related to your posts, specially regarding the music stuff, and I am obsessed myself with patterns, I want to understand if there are innate human patterns, if so which are they, for example the music people like the most, and what characteristics do they share in common.
I loved the entry the gemetry of music, very interesting one.
I am also conviced as you are that music, emotions and emphaty are connected, some of them for obvious reasons. I do not know if you read something about mirror neurons, which is related to empathy http://www.interdisciplines.org/mirror
I do not know I supposed you saw my post about music and language:http://singyourownlullaby.blogspot.com/2009/04/music-and-language.html
Thanks a lot rob for all the valuable information you shared with us
- August 2, 2009 at 3:13 AM
- firstname.lastname@example.com said...
Hi mariana, great post here, thanks for your information you are providing us with. I wanted to ask you, if you know, What are the functions that emotions serve human beings? What are the theories of their purpose for existing?
- August 2, 2009 at 3:19 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Here is some of the information I found that you might be intrested in.
Physiologically, emotions aid in survival. For example, sudden fear often causes a person to freeze like a deer caught by a car's headlights. Because animals usually attack in response to motion, at its simplest level, fear reduces the chances of attack. When Mandy froze in response to a car racing by her, this was an example of a physical response to an emotion that improved her chances of survival.
Emotions also help people monitor their social behavior and regulate their interactions with others. Every person unconsciously learns to "read" the outward expressions of other people and apply past experience to determine what these outward signs indicate about what the other person is feeling. If a person sees a man approaching who is walking very aggressively, holding his body stiffly and frowning, the person might correctly assume that the man is angry. Using this information, the person can decide whether to leave or to stay or what tone of voice and body language to use when approaching the man. Emotions appear to serve several physical and psychological purposes. Some scientists believe that emotions are one of the fundamental traits associated with being human. Emotions color people's lives and give them depth and differentiation. For many people, strong emotions are linked to creativity and expression. Great art, music, and literature deal on a fundamental level with arousing emotions and creating an emotional connection between the artist and the public. Some scientists also believe that emotions serve as motivation to behave in specific ways.
- August 2, 2009 at 3:23 AM
- raul said...
What is the basic structure that the brain has, and how do emotions fit in?
- August 2, 2009 at 3:28 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
These three cerebral layers appeared, one after the other, during the development of the embryo and the fetus (ontogenesis), recapitulating, chronologically, the evolution of animal species (phylogenesis), from the lizards up to the homo sapiens. According to Maclean, they are three biological computers which, although interconnected, retained, each one, "their peculiar types of intelligence, subjectivity, sense of time and space, memory, mobility and other less specific functions".
Actually, we have three cerebral units in a single brain. The primitive one is responsible for self preservation. It is there that the mechanisms of aggression and repetitive behavior are developed. It is there that occur the instinctive reactions of the so-called reflex arcs and the commands which allow some involuntary actions and the control of certain visceral functions (cardiac, pulmonary, intestinal, etc), indispensable to the preservation of life. The development of the olfactory bulbs and their connections made possible an accurate analysis of olfactory stimuli and the improvement of answers oriented by odors, such as approach, attack, flight and mating. Throughout evolution, some of these reptilian functions were lost or minimized (in humans, the amygdala and the entorhinal cortex are the only limbic structures that connect with the olfactory system). It is also in the R-complex that started the first manifestations of the phenomena of ritualism, by means of which the animal tries to define its hierarchic position inside the group and to establish its own space in the ecological niche
In 1878, the French neurologist Paul Broca called attention to the fact that, on the medial surface of the mammalian brain, right underneath the cortex, there exits an area containing several nuclei of gray matter (neurons) which he denominated limbic lobe (from the Latin word "limbus" that implies the idea of circle, ring, surrounding, etc) since it forms a kind of border around the brain stem ( in another part of this text we shall write more about these nuclei).
The entirety of these structures, that, years later would receive the name of "limbic system", developed with the emergence of the inferior ( primitive) mammals. This system commands certain behaviors that are necessary for the survival of all mammals. It gives rise and modulates specific functions that allow the animal to distinguish between the agreeable and the disagreeable. Here specific affective functions are developed, such as the one that induces the females to nurse and protect their toddlers, or the one which induces these animals to develop ludic behaviors (playful moods). Emotions and feelings, like wrath, fright, passion, love, hate, joy and sadness, are mammalian inventions, originated in the limbic system. This system is also responsible for some aspects of personal identity and for important functions related to memory. And, when the superior mammals arrived on the Earth, the third cerebral unit was finally developed : the neopallium or rational brain, a highly complex net of neural cells capable of producing a symbolic language, thus enabling man to exercise skillful intellectual tasks such as reading, writing and performing mathematical calculations. The neopallium is the great generator of ideas or, as expressed by Paul MacLean, "it is the mother of invention and the father of abstractive thought".
- August 2, 2009 at 3:29 AM
- Brad Frederiksen said...
An interesting post, Mariana. I was surprised to see modesty in the list of emotions. That seems to fit more into the class of virtues, though I guess it could be argued that there is a fine line between virtue and emotion. I'll have a ponder on that. Thanks, Mariana.
- August 2, 2009 at 5:20 AM
- Renee said...
Great post Mariana.
- August 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
brad Frederiksen:
I think you are right there is a fine line between virtues and emotions, here you have lists of them so you can enjoy and amuse yourself:
Joy Sadness Acceptance Disgust
Fear Anger Surprise Anticipation
Optimism Disappointment Love Remorse Submission Contempt
Awe Aggressiveness Affection Lust Longing Cheerfulness Zest Contentment Pride Enthrallment Relief Irritation Exasperation Rage Envy Torment Suffering Shame Neglect Sympathy Horror Nervousness
The past ones are emotions according to Pitchuck and/or to Parrot.
Here are the famous seven virtues
prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, faith, hope and love or charity.
- August 2, 2009 at 7:15 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
hello my friend, since I know you are becoming a more skeptical person, I am going to give you a link, specially for you to have fun
"The model shown on this web site is based on Robert Plutchik's psychoevolutionary theory of emotions.
We are drawn to Plutchik's circumplex model of emotions because we find his visual articulation of the relationship of different emotions compelling and nuanced."
here is the url: http://www.seewhatyoufeel.com/emotion.html
Thanks for stepping by my friend
- August 2, 2009 at 7:22 AM
- geek said...
Can an emotion occur without a physical reason? If so, what are the possible drive to that emotion.
I'm asking because there are some days when I don't feel well (bits of irritability, anxiousness, and restlessness). My roommate always asks me why I'm having those emotions, and I would say I don't know. She'd reply to me, "but there's always a reason to everything". But to be honest, I don't really know what drives me to have those emotions.
- August 2, 2009 at 8:14 AM
- Ted Bagley said...
Meaning then seems to be the imaginary affect of the desire to be in unity with others.
- August 2, 2009 at 8:39 AM
- Debra Kay said...
Worry is probably the biggest time waste/energy suck of all-and yet we continue the practice. I always felt that worry was somehow a terrible mutation of anticipation.
- August 2, 2009 at 11:36 AM
- Rayuela said...
Interesante yxcelente post, Mariana!
*Me gustaría ser
para no
Mil besos!
- August 2, 2009 at 1:12 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Yes it can my friend, I guess I did not explained myself very clear at the beginning of the post. Here is what I said to another friend:
Our brains thinks in pictures (among other things). The brain is therefore strongly influenced by the use of vivid imagery. Images are important because they can make us feel a certain way. In other words, Images can affect our emotions. So in this case emotion can be triggered by an inner state, and not by an external perception.
I think the emotions that you are talking about triggered by who knows what neuron / chemmical / hormon,etc.. in your brain and also by things from the outside word are mostly chemical imbalanaces and bad wited neurons in your head. But remember everything can be modified nowadays, you might not even need pills (maybe you do I do not know), just by taking advantage of the neuroplasticity you can modify how your mind behave and therefore how you behave as well.
To tell you the truth, I think your roomate is being kind of plain, she should try to think beyond stuff.
Send you a big hug my friend and do not hesitate asking, I will reply whatever I can.
- August 2, 2009 at 2:18 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
ted bagley:
I am not sure I would call it just meaning, what do you mean by meaning here? I think what you are saying here is describing a desire that most human beings have inside them.
thanks for your thoughts ted.
- August 2, 2009 at 2:22 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Debra Kay:
I like a lot what you say, and I kind of agree with you, I think it is useles to worry about tons od stuff, because you are being concerened in advance, suffering because of that, and in most cases unable to do anything about it. For exam´ple when you are about to get on a plane, is completely useless to worry, also when you are about to start a test, it even lowers your performance due to all that stress. But worrying is usefull for survival in some cases, for example you can forsee that some danger will probabbly come and then take the appropiate measures to avoid the harm. So it is not all bad about warring Debra.
Here is an article you might like:
From "Don't Worry, Be Happy" to "Hakuna Matata," popular culture warns that worrying interferes with happiness and health. But results from a new study at the University of Arkansas show that worrying actually may have healthful benefits - shielding people from the effects of anxiety, at least in the short term.
These protective benefits stem from the way people process potentially threatening information, explained Nathan Williams, assistant professor of psychology and lead investigator on the study. Williams presented his study at the Association for Advancement of Behavior Therapy meeting in Reno, Nevada.
While anxiety tends to arise from fearful imagery, worry manifests in the form of words, Williams said. This difference is not just a matter of form, but it represents a difference in the way the brain interprets, processes and responds to information. Mental images have more instantaneous power to evoke emotional reaction, and this can lead to less logical, less effective responses to threatening information.
"Anxiety is driven by imagery, and that imagery leads to pure, raw emotion - often fear," Williams said. "Engaging in worry allows people to translate those images into words, and that process of translation can circumvent the efferent command center in the brain and reduce the raw, negative emotion associated with the imagery in the first place."
So you see maybe was anxiety what you where refering to, or maybe your worrying skills are extremelly high, both can be a problem in your life
Take care Debra
- August 2, 2009 at 2:31 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Rayuela says:
Interesting and excelent post, mariana!
*I would like to be
not to
thousands kids
ps: in spanish to worry is preocuparse and the particle pre means in advance so she puts (pre)ocuparte which mins to be worried or busy in advance
- August 2, 2009 at 2:34 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Thanks a lot, really your comment is amazing, it is pure poetry, I admire people like you who can bend the words anywhere they like.
By the way I would like that too, if I can
Lots of hugs
- August 2, 2009 at 2:36 PM
- AM said...
Nice catalogue & useful pocket glossary. What about resentment? Is it not missing here?
- August 2, 2009 at 4:03 PM
- geek said...
Thanks for the reply. It was very helpful.
I just wonder though, how can one manipulate neuroplasticity without taking pills? Is it like the placebo effect where one thinks s/he's going to be ok, therefore he heals? Or something like being optimistic?
- August 2, 2009 at 7:51 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Hi, how are you doing? thanks for your compliment man, the catalog I made here is not exhaustive, but I can send you several ones, they all vary according the author and the model they choose to build it. If you double click in the image above you are going to see the drawing of the model that I used in this case the Plutchik one, this one does not have resentment among the emotions it considers.
Resentment is the experience of a negative emotion (anger or hatred, for instance) felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done. The English word has become synonymous with anger, spite, and bitterness.(maybe because it became a synonymous of that words it does not appear in the model I used).
Solomon, professor of philosophy places resentment on the same line-continuum with contempt and anger. According to him, the differences between the three emotions are as follows: resentment is directed towards higher-status individuals, anger is directed towards equal-status individuals and contempt is directed towards lower-status ones.
Bye my friend
- August 2, 2009 at 9:21 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- August 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Hi my dear friend, I am glad my explanation clarified your mind regarding what can trigger an emotional state.
It is not the placebo effect, although that might help you to feel better without chemistry.
Regarding being optimistic, I do not think that is something you can do at will completelly,but it is not fully voluntary the choice of thinking that things are going to be ok, but it might help a little trying to put your mind in that state.
The discovery of neuroplasticity, that our thoughts can change the structure and function of our brains, even into old age, is the most important breakthrough in our understanding of the brain in four hundred years.
Neuroplasticity can work in two directions; it is responsible for deleting old connections as frequently as it enables the creation of new ones. Through this process, called "synaptic pruning," connections that are inefficient or infrequently used are allowed to fade away, while neurons that are highly routed with information will be
Current research suggests that neuroplasticity may be key to the development of many new and more effective treatments for brain damage, whether resulting from traumatic injury, stroke, age-related cognitive decline, or any number of degenerative diseases. It may lead to a breaktrough in the treatment of depression.
the theory upon which harnessing the brain's plasticity is based is a relatively simple one. With "directed neuroplasticity," scientists and clinicians can deliver calculated sequences of input, and/or specific repetitive patterns of stimulation, to cause desirable and specific changes in the brain. As further research reveals the best ways to create and direct these stimuli, the amazing potential of the brain's plasticity can begin to be taken advantage of in medicine, mental health, and a wealth of as-yet-uncharted territory in human behavior and consciousss.
Then comes the cognitive learning phase, here is where the individual is trained using different stimulus.
this is as far as I can tell cause I wont feel good talking about my personal stuff right now.Hope you liked it sir.
- August 2, 2009 at 11:43 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Debra Kay:
I found an old post of mine called worrying skills, that has exactely what you asked for , here it is:
We usually assume that no good can come of worring but it doesn't stop us doing it. We run our mental 'home movies' of future events as if they had already turned out bad. We re-run old conversations and worry that we should have said this or wished we hadn't said that. So can any good come of worrying?
Worrying is usually thought of as a bad thing because it focuses on the negative side. However, it is possible to use the same set of resources with a positive focus. You may be surprised to hear people speaking of worrying as being skill. But don't forget that skills are something we practise in order to eventually get good at them.. .Worrying actually involves two key psychological skills: the ability to form vivid mental pictures and to create inner dialogue.
Both are usually stuck with a bad connotation..Once we switch the emphasis to 'inspire' we can create and rehearse positive mental pictures and words instead of bad ones. Using these skills helps us support our goals, such as ttaking exams, going on a dates, giving a presentation, and so on. If you've got a desired end result in mind, the you can use positive worrying to builld yourself up rather than down.
Positive worrying involves creating a mental image of the end result, or the finishing line, not how you are going to get there. Focusing on the end result creates a sense that you've already succeeded and helps to build motivation.
hope you still wanted this, bye bye
- August 3, 2009 at 12:38 AM
- geek said...
Thank you, as always, for answering my questions Mariana.
Also, in connection to your very informative post, I watched in some documentary that some of our emotions had evolutionary functions to us. For example, the feeling of anxiousness or the fear that something bad might occur was a help to our ancestors to anticipate the danger that's coming.
Oh, and it's ok. You don't have to talk about yourself if you're not comfortable doing so. I'm already thankful that you take time replying to my silly questions. Get well.
- August 3, 2009 at 12:39 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Geek; your welcome my friend, although I think last one was not very good, please excuseme, I think I should have explained things better. Here I put together a bunch of examples for you
Exactely, for me is very interesting the function emotions have in our lives, I see them mostly from the evolutive and funcional side of it. To say it simple, what do emotions help us with.
The thinking is that the emotions systems developed to give us instant solutions to commonly experienced problems in our environment. That meant that very quickly the whole body could respond. So it's not just a thought thing but that literally the emotions play an important role in coordinating the internal functions; heart rate, respiration, muscle tension and the like. So these developed really to give us very instant kinds of solutions to commonly experienced – either threats or opportunities – in our environment; things that related to surviving in comfortable ways.
Here are a bunch of examples:
-Jealousy is seen as a negative force. It's the main fuel for crimes of passion and is linked with brutality, including domestic violence, and even murder. But the great psychologist Sigmund Freud believed that it's not only normal, it's actually desirable to feel jealous. And like all other emotions it's developed to give us the best guess at what's happening in our lives.
-My favourite one for example is shame, which help us adap ourself socialy by preventing us from doing embarrasing things
-Very beatifull poem walking man.
And you talk about my favourite topics of the time, once again. Darkness, solitude, complete isolation
-Sorrow teaches us that love with attachment is not free of pain. Only unconditional love for ourselves and others maintains freedom. If we care too much about the results of our actions and others', then we become emotionally enslaved by those effects. Loving God and the souls of people never causes sorrow by itself. When we judge situations as good and bad, we set ourselves up for sorrow.
-Regret is sorrow over a past action we feel could have been different. We are sorry it happened; we regret it. Regret has a futile quality, because we are wishing to change what cannot be changed. Regret is broader than shame and guilt, because we can regret something even though we do not feel responsible for it occurring. In fact we may feel regret that we did not know about something so that we could be responsible. We also regret our own actions when they turn out to be mistakes or unfortunate. The feeling of regret helps us to learn from the past so that we can correct our actions in the future.
-Desires tell us what we want and value with the various parts of our being. Yet we can evaluate our desires by projecting their probable consequences, analyzing their implied values, and exploring constructive modes of behavior that could enable us to fulfill the ones we choose to pursue. Desire itself is not wrong; it is merely an urging within us which we must learn to handle in one way or another.
It is not that I am not comfortable talking about myself, is that I do not want all the world to know about my personal issues, that's it. But I will be happpy to tell some stuff to you.
- August 3, 2009 at 1:18 AM
- Rinkly Rimes said...
What an interesting blog! I had no idea I was such an emotional person till I read your list. Are you a psychologist?
- August 3, 2009 at 4:19 AM
- ~pi said...
dear marianne
my fascination is indeed
´holiness` we are and in-it,
the im-possibility
to define these complex elements is always very effective on me.
ja, definitios have a limited
purpose, though they´re the better way
to some understanding - well, this is more or less what you say, at the beginning of the post...
i need integration, i don´t want to think too much. :)
kisses for you, my friend, and thanks for your coming to my
pas-s-ages :)
- August 3, 2009 at 4:31 AM
- Ande said...
I found your fascinating blog when looking the internet. A great post!
I am somewhat versed in science and I have always wondered about one thing: even though science is capable of analysing bio molecules and their relation to the immediate surroundings, science does not seem to be able to understand "life." ei the (symphony, life force, system etc) which makes the parts living in cooperation.
The poor results when moving from science to the clinical fields is, I guess a symptom of this neglect. What lies beyond the biochemical mechanism? Dawkin guessed "The blind watchmaker" suggesting it to be a sort of program. Noble (Oxford) suggested it to be a symphony. Myself, I don't believe it is possible to advance science much further if we don't overcome the need to mere mechanism, based on the intellectualism of past. For all we know, there might be fairies and gnomes stimulating the mechanism! :)
- August 3, 2009 at 4:57 AM
- Renee said...
Mariana thank you for the time and the thoughtfulness you took in commenting on my blog.
It gives me lots of food for thought.
Love Renee xoxo
- August 3, 2009 at 6:35 AM
- AM said...
"... resentment is directed towards higher-status individuals, anger is directed towards equal-status individuals and contempt is directed towards lower-status ones."
!! Great. Wonderful distinction. Sort of a Stairway to Hell. Thanks my friend.
- August 3, 2009 at 7:29 AM
- Ted Bagley said...
"I think what you are saying here is describing a desire that most human beings have inside them."
By "a desire", are you intending to say, Object of desire?
Is to "have inside" still to be separate from? If so, it seems to me emotions are maybe something other than ourselves. No?
My second comment was just the impression I got from your first response to me along with your other responses.
So many responses to give! How wonderful!
- August 3, 2009 at 8:39 AM
- foam said...
i sort of wish that anxiety wouldn't manifest itself so physically at times ..
but anyway, one of my favorite emotions is perhaps the emotion of wonderment ... the feeling of awe .. in a positive way ...
the emotion you get when you look at a wonderful work of art, something grand in nature or space, the wonderment and awe of a new discovery in science ...
- August 3, 2009 at 9:14 AM
- David said...
An excellent post. Keep it up, Mariana!
- August 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM
- Ted Bagley said...
I think the paper, A Freidian Ananlysis of Kokoro, on line, by Nancy Annett referencing "Civilization and Its Discontent gives a nice "classical" clarity to the bunch of examples in your last comment.
Could it be that emotions are the expression of the conflict between the Ego and the Super Ego in the individual? And the attempt to regulate that conflict is to take one side or the other? Could Freud be offering a third way?
- August 3, 2009 at 11:34 AM
- A Cuban In London said...
Great post, especially for someone like me, a sucker for psychology. The question is: can we control our emotions?
To me the answer is no, primarily, because as you well explained an emotion is a reaction. But I think that we can tone down the reaction. The upshot of this action is that we repress a feeling. Humans, humans, we're so bloody complicated.
Greetings from London.
- August 3, 2009 at 2:35 PM
- Val said...
My emotions discuss matters with me so I realize their importance. Without them, how would I/we know how to navigate our way from the cradle to the grave. I also think emotions are as individual as fingerprints. Of course everyone can identically describe feelings like hate, love, anger etc...but we all feel them very personally. Perhaps it has something to do with every person's unique experience of life: culture, gender, family structure and environment. I think age changes the way we feel emotions as well. I do love the way you've sorted them and what you say is very accurate for many reasons. Mariana, do you think emotions are becoming more refined now that we are socially progressing in terms of tolerance and compassion? I'm interested in your idea of this.
- August 3, 2009 at 3:58 PM
- Shubhajit said...
Not very complicated subject but seems very complicated.
I'm overwhelmed to see some of the wise responses.
I think...
1)Emotion is the backbone of any creature. The difference between animals and Humans is the difference in degree of emotions.
2)Just because of emotions we are human otherwise we will transcend to the highest level.
3)The variation of particular emotion(s)depends on the circumstances of person and conditioning from the childhood.
4)Emotion also depends on instincts. Instinct is also a very queer word. when a duckling first put into water, he knows how to swim. It's instinctive!!! When a new born infant loft little high in sky, he will cry. How? It's instinctive!!! I think it's previous experience and nothing more. And that's the possibly instinct(what scientist defined without a proper definition). and our emotions also depends on previous experiences that's why we can't explain the root of our anger, infatuation, worry, modesty, fear and so on. Why on the same plane, in same circumstances, same upbringing, two different person have striking emotional differences? Instincts are the only possible explanation.
I think I should stop here..
I will not thank you because some of your write-ups convulse some of the brain cells of mine. Now a days I'm more into romantic poetry and all shits because for the time being I want to get out of this extraordinary "nucleus thinking".
- August 4, 2009 at 6:11 AM
- geek said...
Sorry for the late reply.
And once again, you've given me a wonderful answer.
I was in a lecture today, and one of the professors in the panel raised the concept of the "anthropology of emotion". Now, it's my first time to have heard this and he didn't really elaborate on this much but I think it would also be an interesting area to pursue.
- August 4, 2009 at 6:36 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
"An emotion is an emotive reaction of a person to a perception."
Wrong, and a bad definition.
- August 4, 2009 at 8:43 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Rinkly Rimes:
thank you very much my dear lady, I want to check your blogs, but I am swamped with work, which one do you recomend for me? I am nos a psychologist, I do computer sciente, specially artificial intelligence and I studied informally psychiatry, although I am missing several areas of knowledge there, such as chemistry. I also worked on dna, plant breeding and nowadays I am doing linguistics which is pretty trendy. What do you do, or what do you like, or are interested into. I would love to know
Take care and thanks for steppintg by
- August 4, 2009 at 1:53 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
~pi: it is a really pleasure for me to see your arts of work.
Is great what you say, you know what I think, this impossibility appears because language is not enough, nor grammar, nor syntax, neither morphology. We need to exapand the field. Because it is not only sematics (what it is), sematics is nothing without context, without the culture, the group of persons that are communicating, it has to be a hole integrated and coordinated system of communication. You also need to understand if the speaker is being ironic, if it is talking in technical terms, in slang. IF what we are saying it is reasonable or not (A death person can't be breathing), and a millon more of options we need to include and understand.
Take care my new friend
- August 4, 2009 at 1:59 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Thank you very much for your complement, I completelly agree with you about the problem with science, there are very define and different areas of science and they do not work together well, that is not good. I learn that with budhism.
I agree also that clinical practice, specially in the medical field, tends to work really bad (both my parents are md) but that besides the desintegration has other problems that are from the medical field only, we can talk about it another day.
This is something I wrote before:"we practise science the criteria of which is falsifiability and measurability, in addition to presenting proofs,facts, evidence, the most common form of which is a picture (a certified photograph). We have a GPS and a calendar and time-keeping system in place, so we can identify anything visible in specific space by giving the georgraphical coordiates and the timing of that moment when a picture was taken as evidence.
It is commonplace knowledge that those who live or stay at one particular place at one particular moment of time share the experience of being there and more or less can agree on that experience. It is especially so if they speak the same language, are the same sex and age and education, in other words they have similar backgound in terms of knowledge and experience.
However such homogenous group of people are rarely get together unless the are organised for or round some common goal, such as attending a class, or working on the same object of work. In the first example a teacher is in charge of making sure that all the kids are equal in terms of chanches for understanding, and they can always start a dialogue to clarify."
Funny and interesting ending my friend.
- August 4, 2009 at 2:09 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
thanks a lot my friend for stepping by, I do enjoy visiting your blog, you tend to make me think and open my horizons. Not to mention that I find it esthetically very interesting.
Love to you
- August 4, 2009 at 2:14 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
AM: sadly it kind of works that way, it is pure and plain discrimination, though is not that evident, therefore people still use those expresions in that sense.
Thanks for stepping by. Love
- August 4, 2009 at 2:16 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Ted Bagley:
I guess you mean that emotions are directed for people or things or dreams or whatever, but not towards owerselves? Well that is true with desire (although you are highly narcisistic ) but there are many emotions that are directed or related mainly to ourself, like shame or guilt. You are making me thing that each emotion has it's on rule about that, some can be used with others, some with you, some with both, I do not know if there is a classification made of that ted.
- August 4, 2009 at 2:30 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I wish that to about anxiety, I hate when it shows.
I think I have to agree with your choice of emotions, I would choose those too myself. Probably wondernment in first place.
- August 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Thank you very much for your encouraging words. I am glad to see you are writting again, don't stop, keep going, that you are writing intereseting things, and you can get far if you keep that way
- August 4, 2009 at 2:34 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Ted Bagley:
Intresting paper, I liked what froid says for the first time in many years for example:" Freud states that there are two conflicting trends: the desire for personal happiness and for unity with humanity" I also like this:"Society imposes certain standards on its inhabitants, thus
restricting one's behavior to that which will benefit the group."
I think emotions are attemps to regulate what I mentioned before, among other things.
I do not understand very well what is ego and super ego, is ego conscious for us and superego unconscious? What do you think froid proposed, cause I can not see it yet?
I am happy man you open my mind regarding froid, is not that I love him now, but I can see he had interesting things to say to us.
- August 4, 2009 at 2:53 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
A Cuban In London
do you mean that you love psychology by saying a sucker for?
I do not think we can controll them either, but we can learn to handle them so they are not that hard or difficult for us (I wrote this before reading your second paragraph).
I think the art is in not repressing the emotions but in letting them go and letting them be, and also in learning to guide them at least a little towards where we want them to go. But no forcing that is when you end up harming yourself.
take care london guy
- August 4, 2009 at 2:58 PM
- paulandrewrussell said...
A very interesting post, Mariana. I enjoyed reading it.
- August 4, 2009 at 3:09 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I like what you say about emotions being very personal, I agree with that, but I was thinking that all we feel is very personal, for example what one people percieves is very different than from another. The inputs we recieve have no standards, they do not exist, at least I think, does it even one person see the exact color of red that the other one see?
I think it has to do with the famous nature/nuture debate the way we percieve things, and that they also change as we get older, sometimes.
I am glad that you liked how I arranged emotions and the accuracy of what I said, but to tell you the truth I kind of arrange them randomlly; Maybe luck got in the way.
Very interesting question val, not an easy one to reply.
What can be becoming more refined is our perception of them, and also the way we express them, apply them in reality, and percive them inside ourselves. I think that there is a high chance that the past sentence I mention is becoming true in more evolved selves.
Thanks a lot val for writing to me, always a pleasure to have you hear. Hugz
- August 4, 2009 at 3:11 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
my friend just answer when you have time to do it, I am out of time myself frecuently. Very interesting what you say, but I have been looking for it in several places and could not find anything similar to an easy about what it is or even a simple definition about it. I am going to search it again on the internet and see what it says regarding it.
Hugs my friend
- August 4, 2009 at 3:20 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
you are right it is not pretty clear.
What that sentence means is that an emotion is a reaction from a human being, a reaction to a perception (perceiving something, either human being, a sound. an inner sensation any kind of thing). so if this person is going to be in isolation all of it's life it is still capable to experiment emotions even if it does not ever see another human being in all it s life. Because all you need to provoke an emotion is a perception and this perception can be of many different kinds.
Hope that helps my friend
- August 4, 2009 at 3:24 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Thanks paul, I have been missing you before! welcome back, I want to read your poems asap
Take care
- August 4, 2009 at 3:27 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Intresting first sentence.
1)I think the backbone of beings is the ans autonomous nervous system, that control all the basic functions such as breading and temperature
2)I agree that it makes us human, but maybe we will go to a lower level if we do not have them instead
3)yes, nature/nurture, life circumstances, they all affect
4)I think you are very very smart to bring instincts in the conversation, nobody did so far and they are fundamental, completelly related to this subject.
Instincts come from our anscestors, we inherited from them, either our mom, pop, grandfathers, ..., they are based on previous experience, but not our owns, our ancestor ones.
To reply to your why question, well maybe the dna did not mix the same way, they did not experience the same situations will growing up. This can aply to many traits of two equally reaised people, not only emotions.
Emotions are alter through our life experiences, not our innate instincts.
I am going to thank you any way for making me think and visiting the blog.
take care my friend
- August 4, 2009 at 3:37 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
You flatter me that I'm making you think.
- August 4, 2009 at 4:54 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
Shame or guilt is instigated by the Superego side of the ego.
- August 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
Sorry...in the conflict with a split ego.
- August 4, 2009 at 5:50 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Ted Bagley:
I am glad can flatter you witout even trying.
I learned this "the superego is the component of personality composed of our internalized ideals that we have acquired from our parents and from society. The superego works to suppress the urges of the id and tries to make the ego behave morally, rather than realistically."
I do not understand how is the diagram of the 3 parts of the brain accordin to froid (id, ego, superego)Can you point me to one?
I did understood its functionalities dough
I am still confuse about your last words, they do not work according my superego definition in this case. Does the ego had a supergo side?
Sorry ted I am extemelly confused I will check it out tomorrow If I can not figure it out today.
Thanks a lot for trying to explain it to me anyway.
- August 4, 2009 at 5:57 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I thought there was something wrong, thanks for claryfing, cause I read the previous one so many times I was going nuts
- August 4, 2009 at 5:59 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
Freud never said they(id, ego,superego) were three parts of the brain.
I'll get back to you tomorrow, though.
- August 4, 2009 at 8:31 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
The partition of the psyche defined in the structural model is one that 'cuts across' the topographical model's partition of 'conscious vs. unconscious'. Its value lies in the increased degree of diversification: although the Id is unconscious by definition, the Ego and the Super-ego are both partly conscious and partly unconscious. What is more, with this new model Freud achieved a more systematic classification of mental disorder than had been available previous
According to what I just said we can see that for Froid, the mind can be divided into two main parts:
1. The conscious mind includes everything that we are aware of. This is the aspect of our mental processing that we can think and talk about rationally. A part of this includes our memory, which is not always part of consciousness but can be retrieved easily at any time and brought into our awareness. Freud called this ordinary memory the preconscious.
2. The unconscious mind is a reservoir of feelings, thoughts, urges, and memories that outside of our conscious awareness. Most of the contents of the unconscious are unacceptable or unpleasant, such as feelings of pain, anxiety, or conflict. According to Freud, the unconscious continues to influence our behavior and experience, even though we are unaware of these underlying influences.
According to Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytic theory of personality, is composed of three elements. These three elements of personality--known as the id, the ego and the superego--work together to create complex human behaviors.
The psychoanalytic perspective suggests that there is a structure of the mind that includes the id, the superego and the ego. These structures struggle for control of the energy of the psyche. The id attempts to have basic pleasure-seeking instincts satisfied and ego works to prevent the id from expressing itself inappropriately. The superego which is similar to a conscience takes this job one step further by attempting to enforce societal, religious and/or parental values about right and wrong.
Here: it says that these 3 parts form part of the mind structure : http://imet.csus.edu/imet3/drbonnie/personalitywebq/psychoanalytic.html
This is what I think I understood so far about the structure of the mind, cand you send me a link or something to coarify this?Or a simple explanation will be enough for me, and much apreciated also. Bear in mind I do not know anything about freud s theory.
Thanks a lot for your patience ted
- August 4, 2009 at 9:27 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
Sorry, but, you said "brain" before. Now you say mind , or psyche? And I don't think Freud had a "vs" in there.
I'll get back to everything after that. I have to go to bed, too.
- August 4, 2009 at 10:45 PM
- Ribbon said...
I haven't been this way for a little while and I can see that there is much for me to catch up on.
I don't have time right now, but I will be back soon.
Thank you for your visits to my blog as they are very much appreciated.
take care and best wishes
the stress management technique was a bit of a joke really as the last technique was about holding someone underwater :) not nice!
- August 5, 2009 at 1:03 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
It is nice to see you arround, really nice indeed. You do not need to catch up, it is nevera must, you just read when you can and you are relax to enjoy doing it. Please no obligations about writting here, I will hate that, this should be a place to enjoy, have fun and relate to new interesting friends.
Of course I am going to keep visiting your blog, I will do it because I like it, you are a great artist man.
I guessed that it was a joke, now that you say it, I did not notice before, first because the first items seem to be reasonable, and secondly because I do no know you good enough yet to detect when you are being ironic.
Take careand relax my good friend
- August 5, 2009 at 2:52 AM
- Dave King said...
There is more than one thought form - and I'm not sure that there isn't more than one form of emotional reaction. (As opposed to various emotions, that is - I think!)
- August 5, 2009 at 4:34 AM
- TC said...
This lovely thread has reminded me that
Some emotions are almost imperceptible
- August 5, 2009 at 4:44 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Dave King:
You are absolutely right, there is more than one thought form. I do not think I get you very well, you say that there could be more than one form of emotional reaction(if you search it in google there is not such thing as more than one form of emotional reaction) as opossed to various, what do you mean? you are saying the same thing twice? Your do you mean various at the same time?
Sorry I am kind of lost with this cooment, this is certainly not my field. But I found some facts that might help us clarify your quesion
Do you know the difference between a feeling and an emotion? You may say that emotions are much deeper and stronger than feelings. From one viewpoint, that's true. However, here's a detail about feelings that you may not know about: you can observe your feelings but not your emotions. When you experience feelings you are the observer and in full control; when you experience emotions, you cannot remain the observer and you are not in control.
Emotion Seems to Have a Life of its Own.
That's the reason why we have emotional reactions to things that we sometimes later regret. Like when we scream at our partners. Mostly, this emotional clone is reactive,incontrollable, and seemingly independent from our core selves.
Thanks a lot for your patience ted
So I guess there is more than one emotional model (I infer that each model has its own particular reaction), according to Paul Ekman.
Please feel free to correct me all that you need.
- August 5, 2009 at 5:22 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
thanks for your compliments, and hope you are doing all right.
I liked the poem a lot, really creative, you are mixing 2 subjects only you with your creativity can.
My favourite sentence is "The world still external but less distinct" I think this is excelent tom. I guess And you are right once again regardings that some emotions are almost imperceptible, but I guess wisdom in those cases consist if it is imperceptible because it is just how it is naturally expressed, or if it is imperceptible because it does not wan t to be shown by the one that is experiencing it.
Thanks tom
- August 5, 2009 at 5:30 AM
thought provoking
interesting post, marianna
as usual, but i don't know how i feel about it...
¤ ¤ ¤ (emoticons, hugz n kissz)
- August 5, 2009 at 12:56 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
thanks a lot my friend.
I think you might feel like Paul:
As soon as I start thinking about the emotion, others trickle in and muddy it up.
Anyway I loved your reply, made me laugh and think as usual.
Take care my friend
- August 5, 2009 at 3:02 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
1. A definiton must never contain the defined term:
"An emotion is an [emotive] reaction of a person to a perception."
Even so, it is wrong.
A perception includes 3 elements: object, sensation and idea (that gives conscienceness of the object).
Example: The visual sensation of an egg it is blind without the idea «egg».
2. Also a definition must be universal... it means that must include all the cases...
Can one not have an emotion for the absence of someone (no object)?
Emotions for dreamed persons, animals, even imaginary concepts?
An emotion it is not a reaction; sensations are, because sensations require some object (I'm using the philosophical concept of objec) to afect our perception for the sensation to occur.
Emotions don´t. Emotions are a duration in the mind without (and after) the object that produced the sensation.
- August 5, 2009 at 6:29 PM
- Ted Bagley said...
Good show Lord!
Freud- "Where it was, there I shall be."
- August 5, 2009 at 7:49 PM
- Lane Savant said...
Emotions are often created randomly by chance brain chemistry combinations
- August 5, 2009 at 10:01 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
1. you are right, nevertheless if you grab a dictionary you are going to see it happen lots of time
perception: you say it includes the object being percepted, the sensation???do you mean of the perception? and an idea, which I woud call concept or meaning instead
2. I would call the definition complete or exaustive instead of universal.
I agree with your las paragraph
To tell you the truth I have been doing research about this for several hours and discovered that one of the problem we have for understanding each other is that there are many diffrent theories about how emotions work and what do the terms used in each theory mean so far the best explanation I came up with is:
The simplest theory of emotions, is that emotions are simply a class of feelings, differentiated from my sensations and proprioceptions by their experienced quality. And they are originated by an external or internal simulus.
Thanks a lot lord for helping me think and learn, take care.(I will probabbly change the definition of emotion in my post)
- August 5, 2009 at 10:44 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Ted Bagley
Exately ted, I think I am going to start doing some rituals tu invoke mr freud, cause maybe he can help me.
Thanks pal
- August 5, 2009 at 10:47 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lane Savant:
I agree with that, indeed I have been reading some interesting articles about chaos and the brain I do recomend you to read them:
HAVE you ever experienced that eerie feeling of a thought popping into your head as if from nowhere, with no clue as to why you had that particular idea at that particular time? You may think that such fleeting thoughts, however random they seem, must be the product of predictable and rational processes. After all, the brain cannot be random, can it? Surely it processes information using ordered, logical operations, like a powerful computer?
Actually, no. In reality, your brain operates on the edge of chaos. Though much of the time it runs in an orderly and stable way, every now and again it suddenly and unpredictably lurches into a blizzard of noise.
Neuroscientists have long suspected as much. Only recently, however, have they come up with proof that brains work this way. Now they are trying to work out why. Some believe that near-chaotic states may be crucial to memory, and could explain why some people are smarter than others.
The focus at that time was something called deterministic chaos, in which a small perturbation can lead to a huge change in the system - the famous "butterfly effect". That would make the brain unpredictable but not actually random, because the butterfly effect is a phenomenon of physical laws that do not depend on chance. Researchers built elaborate computational models to test the idea, but unfortunately they did not behave like real brains. "Although the results were beautiful and elegant, models based on deterministic chaos just didn't seem applicable when looking at the human brain," says Karl Friston, a neuroscientist at University College London.
Hovering on the edge of chaos provides brains with their amazing capacity to process information and rapidly adapt to our ever-changing environment, but what happens if we stray either side of the boundary? The most obvious assumption would be that all of us are a short step away from mental illness. Meyer-Lindenberg suggests that schizophrenia may be caused by parts of the brain straying away from the critical point. However, for now that is purely speculative.
here is the full articl
thank you my friend for your nice company
- August 5, 2009 at 10:58 PM
- Stu said...
Mariana, what do you think of the concept of 'emotional intelligence'?
- August 5, 2009 at 11:52 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
To tell you the truth I was never very fond of it, I do not have a reason for that.
I just found there are 3 diffrent models of EI, the first one consits in:The four branch model of emotional intelligence describes four areas of capacities or skills that collectively describe many of areas of emotional intelligence. This model defines emotional intelligence as involving the abilities to:
accurately perceive emotions in oneself and others
use emotions to facilitate thinking
understand emotional meanings
manage emotions
Look what wikipedia says about the research done about it
"Research of EI and job performance show mixed results: a positive relation has been found in some of the studies, in others there was no relation or an inconsistent one. This led researchers to offer a compensatory model between EI and IQ, that posits that the association between EI and job performance becomes more positive as cognitive intelligence decreases, an idea first proposed in the context of academic performance. The results of the former study supported the compensatory model: employees with low IQ get higher task performance and organizational citizenship behavior directed at the organization, the higher their EI."
I guess my intuiotion was correct, at least scientifically.
Interesting question my friend, if you want to know more about it,ju st let me know that I can tell you some stuff else.
- August 6, 2009 at 12:10 AM
- Shadow said...
an excellent post. i enjoyed reading it. emotions and perceptions. the one triggering the other.
- August 6, 2009 at 2:11 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
thank you very much for your encourgaging words. I am happy you liked this post. To tell you the true of all the post I have publisehd this is the one that was the hardest for me. I had to read a lot about the subject, but that is cool, learning is always cool
Txs a lot man for visiting
- August 6, 2009 at 2:41 AM
- Citizen of Earth said...
Thanks for your comments and for your inspiration...
- August 6, 2009 at 10:58 AM
another wonderful post mariana.
thank you.
- August 6, 2009 at 11:19 AM
- Jordan Castro said...
- August 6, 2009 at 12:13 PM
- Carlos Dante Ferrari said...
Mariana, thank you for finding out an acceptable concept for "repentance". To be honest, I´m not so sure about a substantial difference between "emotions" and "feelings". Maybe that emotions are varying and spontaneus, often caused by punctual stimulations, while our feelings usually are deep and steady. If so, (sincere) repentance should be a feeling. Am I wrong?
- August 6, 2009 at 1:57 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
Don't care for a dictionary, it's a cemetery of dead ideas...
1. There are no perceptions without the percepted «something»;
2. Sensation is the firts step of perception;
3. Idea is the golden step of perception: it is perception itself, for there would be no perception without conscienceness, and conscienceness is formed of ideas, that are more then concepts but the metaphysical possibility of all concepts (read Kant);
4. Complete and exaustive is: universal (read Bertrand Russell);
[NOTE: before reading anything else, you should read John Locke, David Hume and Emanuel Kant; they are the first ground of the modern debate on perception.]
5. There are many theories... some are wrong;
6. Psychology is crap: good for sick people; reason is above disease: it is the golden kingdom of logic and methafisics;
7. True: emotions are a classe of feelings (nothing simple on that); the two are the result of the match between ideas and sensations;
8. An emotion is the match between an idea and a sensation where the sensation gains domination (example: fear);
9. A feeling is the match between an idea and a sensation where the idea gains domination (example: love).
P. S. By the way: I understand Spanish very well...
Want to know more about Portugal?... ;)
- August 6, 2009 at 1:59 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. P. S. The second video...
- August 6, 2009 at 2:00 PM
- Tape said...
Guilt is a useless emotion.
It doesn't avoid humans to kill themselves. That should be awakeness...life is but a dream though.
- August 7, 2009 at 6:40 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
The man who is rebuilding the western philosophy on the issue of emotions: António Damásio.
- August 7, 2009 at 8:21 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Citizen of Earth:
Thanks a lot Citizen of Earth for visiting and also for your compliment.
Take care my friend
PS:I like a lot what you do
- August 7, 2009 at 8:52 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I am really flattered for you comment my new friend, thank you.
You have really inspirational post for me (just wanted you to know that)
take care
- August 7, 2009 at 8:54 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
jordan castro:
Intresting comment, you left me without words.
PS: I found your blog intriguing, going to check it later
- August 7, 2009 at 8:55 AM
- Shaista said...
Dear Mariana, wow 126 comments - and such interesting thought provoking debates and arguments and follow-throughs. I liked the first response because I myself have used Zen meditation and mindfulness to observe the fickle nature of emotion. 'Emovere' is described in Eckhart Tolle's book as meaning 'to disturb' which I think is exactly what our emotions do to us. I liked your story about meeting the hermit and asking him about progress. It seems to be our great quest to progress, and yet great happiness usually only comes from stillness.
Thankyou so much for your comments on my blog - they were lovely and thoughtful.
Have a peaceful, undisturbed-by-emotion sort of day :)
- August 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Carlos Dante Ferrari:
Yourwelcome Carlosl, it is always interesting to learn new information.Hope the following clarifies a little bit the difference
"You can recognize any feeling, that is what makes it a feeling. If you are sad that is a feeling, but if you are depressed that isn't a feeling it is more like an emotion. You can't identify why you are depressed but you can usually identify why you are sad. Feelings are more immediate, if something happens or is happening, it is going to result in a feeling. However, if something happened a long time ago, you are going to think about it unconsciously and that is going to bring up unconscious feelings. Otherwise known as emotion."
Take care, if you still have doubts do not hesitate to ask carlos
- August 7, 2009 at 4:20 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
great definition of dictionary
an interesting paragraph about Kant:"Kant's solution to the quid juris in the Critique of Pure Reason was the argument of the "Transcendental Deduction" (in the "Analytic of Concepts") that concepts like causality are "conditions of the possibility of experience," because they are the rules by which perception and experience are united into a single consciousness, through a mental activity called "synthesis." Once the existence of consciousness is conceded (which not everyone, e.g. behaviorists, might be willing to do), then whatever is necessary for the existence of consciousness must be conceded. "
2.I think first you have the perception an that causes the sensation
4.True you need consiousness, I do not agree that much about what you say regarding ideas, I would stick with concepts, but I guess that is kantlanguage. Conciousness allows existing concepts and also all the possible ones.
6.I do not like psychology either, never did. I do not think is the golden kindom of logic, it sounds pretty non-locial to me.
7. read what I wrote above about the different among feelings and emotions. They start with sensations and I think they derive in ideas, you are probabbly true about that.
8.I think you might be right. But I do not understand why you say that the sensation gains domination
9.True also but I think instead of dividing it like you do point by point I would go: sensation->feeling->emotion->idea
Sorry these is all I can add to your thoughts, but I am open to your arguments and theories, so we can go on.
Below we talk about that we both speak several languages in common.
asi que hablas espaniol?
mira vos. Yo puedo hablar portugues bastante bien tambien, tenemos varios idiomas para usar entre ambos. Besos
- August 7, 2009 at 4:42 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
Sorry but I do not understand what you mean with the video, or did you forgot to put it?
bye man
- August 7, 2009 at 4:45 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I agree, well mostly, but it can help to prevent a few humans from doing harm to others the ones that are able to learn from that.
I liked a lot what you said at the end, it is lovely, I agree.
What I think it might be a useless emotion is being worry.
Hugs my friend
- August 7, 2009 at 4:49 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
DAmasio, yes, I read one of his book a long time ago, the problem I had isthat I do not know much about chemistry, and also the anatomy of the brain was hard to remember for me, but I thoght he had an interesting theory. I should read a lesss technical book from him, probably he had written one by now.
- August 7, 2009 at 4:51 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Intreresting that you used zen meditation. I instead read a lot about zen budhism, but never practice, that is probably why I used that in the answer. I knew emotions meant to disturb, the problem with that word is that it has a bad connotation in english, something disturbin is something bad per se.
It is very interesting what you say that happiness comes from stillness, because it seems to be a paradox contrasted with the quest. Well, life is full of that kind of stuff (paradoxical things).
I liked a lot your blog, thank you for writting it.
Thank you very much, and I hope you have a good day yourself too.
- August 7, 2009 at 4:57 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
Dictionary: So...?
2. «In philosophy, psychology, and the cognitive sciences, perception is the process of attaining awareness or understanding of sensory information.» (Wikipedia: Perception). «Our perception of the external world begins with the senses, which lead us to generate empirical concepts representing the world around us, within a mental framework relating new concepts to preexisting ones» (Wikipedia: Philosophy of perception)
4. «Immanuel Kant defines an "idea" as opposed to a "concept". "Regulator ideas" are ideals that one must tend towards, but by definition may not be completely realized.» (Wikipedia: Idea)
6. Reason is logic; the rest of the self is mind.
7. I did... I'm not an empiricist; that was the view of Locke. Kant proved he was wrong, with analytic a priori judgments and synthetic a priori judgments.
8. It is when the emotion only makes someone dumb...
9. [a priori structures of sensibility->object]->sensation->emotion]-[feeling<-idea.
Muy bien. Si hablas, no lo sei, pero escribes muy mal en Portugués... :)
P. S. Nevermind Damasio. I was being ironic: he is just playing the «cutting brains» mad doctor game...
- August 7, 2009 at 9:31 PM
- Klatuu o embuçado said...
If you want to understand my twin brother Lord of Erewhon, read him talking with «ALICE»... JAJAJAJAJA!!!
- August 7, 2009 at 9:53 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Klatuu o embuçado:
good, now I assume that is your othe blog, and your alterego, or am I wrong? if so I notice that you yourself are a bot so probably IU will be experimenting with speaking circular stuff and check if you can pass the turing test, or you are just a blef.
TAke care
- August 7, 2009 at 10:33 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon :
Sorry I left my dictionary in the car, it got wet, and now it is all messed up.
2. Something else about perception, emtions and so on
"A number of behavioural studies have already shown that emotions can have an effect on perception. When, for example, observers are asked to selectively pay attention to a target at the centre of the visual field while ignoring surrounding "distractor" objects, the prior induction of a positive emotional state leads to more interference from the surrounding objects than does induction of a negative mood. Likewise, positive moods are associated with a tendency to perceive global components, and negative moods with the local components, of a visuospatial stimulus. "
4. I do not like can't I do not agree with what he says about that
6. Reason is logic; the rest of the self is mind???why isn't the mind also reason?
8.I completely agree
How do you know I speak very bad portuguese? you never heard me? its true dough, maybe I tried to wrote on the web somewhere.
cheers to your twin
- August 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM
- Klatuu o embuçado said...
You may not agree with everything you want: all it's part of free will.
The part of the mind that is logic is called reason.
I've wrote: «Muy bien. Si hablas, no lo sei, pero escribes muy mal en Portugués...»; meaning this: Mariana Soffer said... Eh o massimo, ochimo, Pessoa e uno dos treis mellores escritores da lingua portuguessa, pra mi e muito similar a camus. O que eli diz no texto e escelente. Tambien meu lembra do borges, que voce podi ver algumais coisas no miño blogg.2:32 AM.
- August 9, 2009 at 9:23 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Klatuu o embuçado :
you made me laugh so much man, it is true, I wrote that, I just wanted to play see, what was going on with my never learned portuguesse, thanks for reminding me of that, brought me a smile.
-You are right logic corresponds to reason
-refarding free will there is a guy I think you might like to hear
cause I still can not make my mind about this hole free will new dilema everybody is talking about.
Take care my ffffffrienddd amigo
olha ahi cara
- August 9, 2009 at 11:18 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
What a mix between Spanish, Portuguese and Italian... LOL!!!
And... I'm not Brazilian, dear... In (european) Portuguese for «guy» we say «gajo» and not «cara»: that is in american Portuguese.
- August 10, 2009 at 1:33 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. S. By the way... If you want to speak Portuguese, it is easier if you learn american Portuguese; (european) Portuguese is hard to speak, because is the neo-latin language closest to Latin (even more then Italian). Portuguese is the only that don't have the staccato (meaning: when latins speak seems - for not latins - that they are singing); Portuguese is more gutural, because in the ditongues the second vocal is lower, while in the other neo-latin languages is always higher. Once a German friend told me that Portuguese seems like Russian with whistles; those are from the arabic influence: we prolongue the double «s» so much, among sounds from the throat (like in the German language). This is also because of the pre-Roman background of people in ancient Portugal; from north to south: north: Iberian/germanic; center north: Iberian/germanic/celtic; center south: Iberian/celtic; south: Iberian/arabic.
- August 10, 2009 at 2:06 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. P. S. The Brazilian speak with staccato because of the influence of Spanish and Italian (many had go to Brazil in the past); that's why is easy to sing beautifully in their Portuguese and so hard to sing in our Portuguese...
- August 10, 2009 at 2:28 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon:
I know I mix them all, my problem is that I am shameless regarding speaking in foreign languages, well mainly speaking, not so much writting in them, that is how I travel arround the world being able to communicate (or so I thought)will all kind of peoploe from this world.
I know european is pretty different, I can tell by the music, when I listen to madredeus the accent it is much hard to understand than when you listen to caetano veloso,or other brazilian guys.
I know what stacatto means when you are playing the saxophone. Anyway very interesting what you are telling me about neo latin language.
Your friend described amazingly portuguese. I liked a lot that you described me all that language details, cause as you knwo I am pretty much into linguistics, and specially in the latin brunch of them.
But seriously I doubt I could ever learn to speak portuguese, even less write in a descent way, but I am very happy with understanding the lyrics of my faviourite bahian songwriters, although I do need to understand better what pessoa intends to say with his words.
Hugs my new friend
- August 10, 2009 at 2:30 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
- August 10, 2009 at 9:28 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. S. Before Pedro Ayres de Magalhães «invented» Madredeus... he is the guitar player on the right.
- August 10, 2009 at 9:36 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. S. Their political and philosophical believes are the same as mine: we are quinto-imperialistas...
- August 10, 2009 at 9:45 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
lord of erewhon
Thanks a lot for the music, that was in portuguese so I could practice, it was a group I never heard of, dough I read the lyrics and found out what the song was about.
Where are they from? where they very popular in the eighties in your countriy?
It is amazing the amount of things that are unknown for us and yet to discover in this world (next time I send you one of my marvelous songs)
- August 10, 2009 at 9:47 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
The biggest avantgarde band of the portuguese 80's, from Lisbon.
- August 10, 2009 at 9:49 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
lord oferewhon
I can not belive you is the guy from madredeus, that is amazing, omg. Yeah I understood the lyrics motive and I do also kind of agree with what they say about politics and so.
By the way did you ever heard a group called virus from this country? also from the eighties, pretty much pop and glam, pretty crazy?
- August 10, 2009 at 9:50 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
OK, thank you.
- August 10, 2009 at 9:52 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
LOL! I know the guy...
- August 10, 2009 at 9:53 AM
- Mariana Soffer said...
I can not belive you know him, he is called federico moura, he has some amazing hits.
- August 10, 2009 at 9:56 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
From Argentina? This is my favourite band: Euroshima.
Must go. Cheers!
- August 10, 2009 at 10:02 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
I ment: I know Pedro Ayres de Magalhães, from Madredeus (and Heróis do Mar).
- August 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
I'm gothic, my dear...
- August 10, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Oh, my goodness, how did I miss my favorite topic in your posts, Mariana? LOL.
Now 155 comments later (which I cannot possibly read all), I just want to point out how much I like this comment of yours:
Some scientists believe that emotions are one of the fundamental traits associated with being human. Emotions color people's lives and give them depth and differentiation. For many people, strong emotions are linked to creativity and expression. Great art, music, and literature deal on a fundamental level with arousing emotions and creating an emotional connection between the artist and the public. Some scientists also believe that emotions serve as motivation to behave in specific ways.
Indeed. Emotions shape our values and goals in life on a very basic level, before the rational/intellectual analysis kicks in, and, I believe, only through employing emotions we can develop our personality and character throughout our lifetimes.
Goodness, I wish I had more time to linger here... You are a treasure. :)
- August 10, 2009 at 1:45 PM
P.S. Love the rainbow flower of feelings.
- August 10, 2009 at 2:02 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewon:
My dear friend I regreat to inform you that you where mistaken with the band, those people where from peru, which is pretty far and different from my country culture, anyway it is pretty particular that you knew them, cause I didn't at all.
So you like goth music, I used to, now I do too, but I just do not listen to it that often than before.
Here is the best music from the 80, ever, the first argentinian electronic/kind of music, an amazing song, the most talented people of their time, listen to the lyrics if you can, cause there are amazing, if not I will translate them for you
here they are:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5U5dM43AaM
los encargados is the group name
enjoy my very dear friend
- August 10, 2009 at 9:15 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Exactely my friend E, emotions come before than rational thoughts, I told this already but I will explain it to you once more, with an extra special knowledge for you.
You have 3 diferent parts in your brain, starting from the less evolved one to the most sofisticated of them: Reptilian Brain, lymbic system and Cortex
The reptilian brain is the brain we share with birds, and reptiles. Think of it as the "housekeeping brain". Just the basics: hunger, temperature control, fight-or-flight fear responses, defending territory, keeping safe -- that kind of thing. The structures that perform these functions within our brain are extremely similar to those in the brains of reptiles. Thus, this brain is called the "R complex" (R for reptilian).
The lymbic system is the part of the brain that appears to be most directly involved in human emotion-regulation problems. There are several main parts of this system, and recently the role of several of these parts has become a little clearer (we still have a long way to go). At least we can point to some parts of your brain that are clearly participating in your emotional experience of the world. The rest of this section will talk about one such part, the "limbic cortex". After that you can understand better how other limbic structures such as the memory center ("hippocampus") and fear center ("amygdala") fit in. Finally we'll look at the "master gland", the hypothalamus.
The cerebral cortex is divided into right and left hemispheres. It encompasses about two-thirds of the brain mass and lies over and around most of the structures of the brain. It is the most highly developed part of the human brain and is responsible for thinking, perceiving, producing and understanding language. It is also the most recent structure in the history of brain evolution.
Most of the actual information processing in the brain takes place in the cerebral cortex. The cerebral cortex is divided into lobes that each have a specific function. For example, there are specific areas involved in vision, hearing, touch, movement, and smell. Other areas are critical for thinking and reasoning. Although many functions, such as touch, are found in both the right and left cerebral hemispheres, some functions are found in only one cerebral hemisphere. For example, in most people, language abilities are found in the left hemisphere.
You can confirm if you check in your own body that the upper part influences less the lower one, lets say you are feeling sad, then you start thinking what to do about it, strategies, why, but it is very complex to modify this sadness with the apper part. Instead the emotional part of the brain has a tremendous influence on your cognitive thinking rational processes of the upper part, if you are really desbalanced emotionally you can practically not function in an intellectual way.
I will be here later on, do not worry if you do not have time now, we can come back to this subject tomorrow, or whenever we have some free time.
I am going to thank you now for all the marvelous compliments you told me so far, thank s to you very much!. And I am glad you ar einterested in these things and that we can have interesting talks
Have good luck!
- August 10, 2009 at 9:43 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
No, my dear... Euroshima fue una banda de post-punk/gothic rock formada en Buenos Aires, Argentina, a mediados de la década del '80, compuesta por Wanda (voz), Fabián Iribarne (guitarras), José Wyszogrod (synths) y Ricardo Parrabere (voz, bajo, synths, batería electrónica); editaron en 1987 su único trabajo discográfico titulado «Gala» (en cassette y vinilo).
There's no need for a translation, I speak, read and write your language... I even have lived in Madrid for a while.
- August 10, 2009 at 11:57 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon
Oh my god you are so right! I just found this link that says it all exactly as you explained it, it is argentinian music, so ackward for me, cause I used to know most of the groups that existed at that time here, because they weherent many cause when the military government ruled they forbade foreign music due to the war with england in the year 82 so most argentinnian bands appear that year, or later on. Ok check this http://www.discogs.com/Euroshima-Gala/release/897800, now you can say you are right!
So living in spain for a while, interesting place I love barcelona I go there almost every year cause there is where my sister lives.
I wanted to ask you 2 things
1. Are you a musician by any chance?
2. What was your brother's/cousin's name, that I can not remember?
Cheer for yourself my friend
- August 11, 2009 at 12:49 AM
- Klatuu o embuçado said...
See... ;) They are a cult band for millions of gothic all over the world...
Not a musician: we are like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, though both of us is Mr Hyde... JAJAJAJAJA!!!
- August 11, 2009 at 12:32 PM
- Klatuu o embuçado said...
- August 11, 2009 at 12:34 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Klatuu o embuçado
I noticed that both of you have a dark side, which I like, and find interesting at the same time. So I am going to infer you are some kind of medical doctor, because that is what the author of the book and one of the protagonist was, am I right?
Intersting band, I liked it, thanks for sharing that!
- August 12, 2009 at 8:32 PM
- Klatuu o embuçado said...
The vocal and frontman of the band and the drummer are my friends.
We are beyond help... and we love it! :)
- August 13, 2009 at 12:01 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Klatuu o embuçado
I guessed you have a connection that was too strong with this band, but not to the point that they where your pals, nice stuff!
- August 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
Wrong, Fernando and Mike do are my pals, dear... my good friends... ;)
P. S. Go to Bar do Ossian: posts with Nina Hagen and Siouxsie Sioux.
- August 13, 2009 at 7:39 PM
- Mariana Soffer said...
Lord of Erewhon
Klatuu o embuçado
guys you are making me laugh and driving me crazy at the same time (I like that)
I did check that post, it was a really good one, I left a comment, but I ll go and check it again
- August 13, 2009 at 7:55 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
Best of two worlds! JAJAJAJA!!!
- August 13, 2009 at 8:16 PM
- Lord of Erewhon said...
P. S. Check the link (white) in the post The Sick Rose: is to the blog of the V Imperialists Movement...
- August 13, 2009 at 8:21 PM