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Difference between revisions of "Charter schools"
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==Myths about charter schools==
==Myths about charter schools==
===Charter Schools Don't Do Any Better===
This claim is based on older research on charter schools which overall indicates they do not perform better than public schools.
This claim is based on older research on charter schools which overall indicates they do not perform better than public schools.
Revision as of 09:17, 5 February 2017
Charter schools are a form of public school designed to be autonomous while still adhering to the same state testing of other public schools. They provide school choice options to parents while offering the school staff significant opportunities to explore better teaching methods.
Currently 5% of students who attend public schools in the United States are enrolled at charter schools. This 5% is composed predominately of African-American and Hispanic students and the charter school's enrollment is overwhelmingly low-income. This is because there is a demand for charter schools in areas where these demographics comprise a larger portion of the population.
Myths about charter schools
Typical Opposition Postion: Charter Schools Don't Do Any Better
This claim is based on older research on charter schools which overall indicates they do not perform better than public schools.
However, this claim is now being disproved by the most recent studies.
For example, a 2009 report, "Multiple Choice: Charter School Performance in 16 States" from the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University paints a different picture when charter schools are examined on a state by state basis.
"Multiple Choice" found that charter schools definitely do outperform regular public schools in five of the 16 states the report examined.
Those states where charter schools outperform regular public schools include: Arkansas, Colorado (Denver), Illinois (Chicago), Louisiana and Missouri.
Furthermore, this same CREDO study showed that once students have been in charter schools for three years or more, they do outperform their regular public school. Furthermore, a recent supplement to the first CREDO study, which examined charter schools in New York City, found that students in that city's charter schools definitely performed better than regular public school students.
The findings in the CREDO report are replicated by another report on New York City charter school performance by Stanford researcher Caroline Hoxby. Hoxby found New York City's charter schools have dramatic performance advantages using a very high quality research approach that is basically a random sample study.
There are more, recent examples of specific charter school models that do remarkably better than the regular public schools.
For example, the Knowledge is Power Program (KIPP) schools are posting extremely good results despite the fact that these schools serve predominently minority populations. For example, the KIPP schools in the Bay Area of San Franciso outperform the regular public schools in their school district.
Finally, charter schools in Boston were recently examined. This report also used the high quality random sampling approach used by Hoxby. Once again, the performance findings strongly favored charter schools. In fact, the middle school charter school advantage in Boston was found to be truly remarkable, and it grew strong for each additional year that a Boston child was in one of the city's charter.
On this graph, the performance of regular public school students is represented by the black horizontal axis as a constant zero performance and the added performance of charter schools in math and English Language Arts is shown by the two colored lines. For example, by the eighth grade, the charter school advantage in math was found to be 0.8 units better than the regular public school performance. To give this arbitrary performance number some meaning, the report says this 0.8 performance increase equates to moving from the 50th to the 69th percentile of student performance, a remarkable improvement.
Thus, as Kentucky considers charter school laws, it is important to consider those states where charter school performance is better and those specific charter school models that also outperform. It is also important to understand that older reports on charter schools do not reflect findings in the latest studies. It took time for successful charter school models to evolve and prosper, but that clearly is happening now. However, only recent reports can capture the true charter school picture accurately.
Finally, it is now definitely incorrect to universally claim that charters don't outperform public schools. That is a myth. In cases where state laws and implementation have been effective, and where the best research models are used to make the analysis, charter schools do outperform.
Typical Opposition Position vs. The Facts
Typical Opposition Position Charters drain money from public schools.
The Facts Charters are public schools. No money goes to private/parochial schools here. Also, depending upon the model Kentucky actually chooses, charters have proven more efficient than regular public schools, as well.
Typical Opposition Position Unions don't favor and can't exist in charter schools.
The Facts Some charter schools have adoped unions, on January 10, 2010 the Los Angeles Times reported that unions there are even talking about starting their own charter schools. The concept is flexible. That is the whole point. Union resistance, however, has been very inflexible.
Typical Opposition Position Poor performance in public schools is parents' fault.
The Facts Charters thrive on parent engagement and many polls show charters have been very successful at engaging parents. Regular public schools in contrast have a weak record of engaging parents. Parents should have the option of choosing their schools. We trust them to choose their children's health care providers, why not their schools?
The Bluegrass Policy Blog also took a look at how charters in two of the largest charter states, Texas and Florida, did with their African-American kids. Both states had notably lower scores for African-Americans on the National Assessment of Educational Progress back when KERA began in the early 1990s. Today, blacks in both states outscore us. The score trend change started around the time both states started their charter school programs and was especially notable in Texas.
By the way, charter enrollment in both states has skyrocketed since the mid-1990s. It is over 100,000 students in both states now. Do you really think that would happen if charters were not popular with parents?
Typical Opposition Position Reports show charters don't do any better, and often do worse than regular public schools. For example, a June 2009 report from the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University says that charters don't do well.
The Facts Actually, that CREDO reportsays that once students have been in charters at least three years – they outperform regular public schools.
Furthermore, CREDO since issued another report on charters in New York City. That shows charters in the Big Apple most definitely do outperform their public school counterparts. Furthermore, that latest CREDO study just echoes findings from a report by Caroline Hoxby, released a few months earlier, that found amazing results in favor of charter schools in a reasonably random sample type study, which is the gold standard for such research. Right now, CREDO is being asked questions about why their two reports look so different, while Hoxby's solid research remains stable and has consistently shown charters are performing very well.
Typical Opposition Position Charter schools accept teachers who don't have certification. They may not be qualified, and they don't have the background checks and monitoring that regular public school teachers have.
The Facts Private schools don't require certification, either. Sadly, certification is no guarantee of competence, something many key educators are admitting and trying to change. What charters do provide, if they have a good principal, is the ability to remove ineffective teachers from the classroom. Due to overly protective union contracts, that never happens in Kentucky's regular public schools. So far as the background checks go, that can be addressed in a good charter school bill with little difficulty.
Typical Opposition Position Kentuckians don't want charters.
The Facts Not true. The results of a poll sponsored in 2007 by the Bluegrass Institute showed that more than three out of four Kentuckians want charters after they learn more about what they really are.
Typical Opposition Position Charters won't help rural schools in Kentucky.
The Facts Why not? They already work in the rural Albany, Georgia area, as you can see in a You Tube we featured in the Bluegrass Policy Blog on December 18, 2009. Charter schools can also be organized district-wide, as is happening in some other states. A district charter would give every school in the district the flexibility it needs to really do reform right while offering parents some choice options.
Typical Opposition Position Charter school principals don't have the same training as we require for regular public schools.
The Facts That's generally wrong. The KIPP program, for example, won't let a person take over a KIPP school without completing a full training program.
Typical Opposition Position Charter schools just cherry-pick the best students.
The Facts Actually, charter schools are overwhelmingly populated by minorities and children from low-income homes. Furthermore, most charters select students by blind lottery. That makes it impossible to cherry-pick students.
Charter schools in Kentucky
There are currently no charters schools in Kentucky. Louisville Rep. Phil Moffett is the primary sponsor of (HB 103) during the 2017 session of the Kentucky General Assembly, which would allow local school districts, the mayors of Louisville and Lexington, Kentucky public and private universities with accredited schools of education and the Council on Postsecondary Education to serve as authorizers of charter schools. Moffett's bill would allow the Kentucky Board of Education to authorize charter schools for applicants previously denied at least twice.
Kentucky lags behind other states
Charter schools have only been in existence in the United States for a quarter-century. Yet more than 6,000 charters are now operating in 43 states and the District of Columbia. California, Arizona, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Texas lead the way with the most charter schools. Kentucky currently is one of seven states without a charter-school enabling law.
No charter schools in Kentucky: Big deal or little concern?
Everything is big in Texas, even its charter school program
Enrollment is big
…so is performance, especially when compared to Kentucky
- Texas' black students increased their math scores by 23 points – more than twice the progress of Kentucky's blacks – all during an era of dramatic enrollment increase at charter schools. Adding charter schools to the commonwealth's educational tool chest will doubtless help close the growing white minus black achievement gaps in Kentucky.
Why Kentucky needs Charter Schools
- In 2008, more than 10,000 students were trapped in Kentucky's 34 Tier 5 schools – schools failing to make adequate progress for at least six years.
- Despite the abject failure of their schools to improve, six of the 2008 Tier 5 school principals held their jobs since at least the 2002-03 school year.
- In 2009, not a single one of those schools earned its way out of Tier 5 status. Most – 27 of them – sank further into the Tier-5 abyss. These schools could be turned into charter schools.
- Failing schools disproportionately affect poor, black and disabled students.
- Of the 34 "No Child" Tier 5 schools in Kentucky in 2008, 29 failed student groups other than the learning disabled. After the learning disabled, the worst-served student groups are Kentucky's black students, followed by students from low-income households.
- Stanford economist Caroline Hoxby asks in the title of one of her publications on charter schools: "Could School Choice be a Tide that Lifts All Boats?"
- Most poor parents cannot afford to send their children to private schools. Kentucky has more than 400 nonpublic schools where tuition averages between $4,500 for elementary school and $6,700 for high school.
- "Fears that school choice negatively affect public schools aren't merely overblown. They're simply wrong." --Hoxby
Grad rates & charter schools: What's not known can hurt Ky
Q: What is Kentucky's graduation rate for minorities?
A: We don't know.
Q: Why?
A: The Kentucky Department of Education won't tell us.
Q: Considering the state is reporting either no – or unreliable – information, what does the Bluegrass Institute's research reveal about Kentucky's graduation rates?
A: They're not good. Using a formula developed by Johns Hopkins University, Kentucky's graduation rates are not only unacceptable but going in the wrong direction.
Q: What do the lines shaded in gray in the table reveal about Kentucky's graduation rates?
A: The percentages of students graduating in those schools and racial groups fell between the 2003-04 and 2007-08 school years. Notice, for example, that graduation rates for Atherton High School's black females dropped an average 1.4 percentage points every year since the 2003-04 term.
Q: Would charter schools help improve Kentucky's graduation rates?
A: Yes. Consider:
- Dayton, Ohio's graduation rate rose by more than 28 percent between the 2000-01 (51.1 percent) and 2005-06 (79.5 percent) school years. During this time, "Dropout Recovery Charter Schools" were introduced in the Buckeye State. Cleveland and Cincinnati, which have similar charters, also had notable improvement.
- Two charter high schools in Providence, R.I. graduated all of their Class of 2008 students. That's compared to 61 percent average among all state schools.
- Nearly one-half of all minorities fail to graduate each year. What will Kentucky do?
- Nationwide, reducing the dropout rate in half would reduce health care, welfare and crime-related costs by $45 billion, a significant amount of which would find its way into Kentucky coffers. It's likely that charter schools will lead the way. What is Kentucky waiting for?


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King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,552
3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles
This is the first draft of the chapter 3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles.
Our basis text is that of QS77 given on page 16-17. Were ever the text is different from that this is marked by an editing mark.
The markings are:
DE-SC-xx for Dwarves and Ents, Script, to document the backward development of the basic text, to the source text as given in HoME 11. I normally will not comment on this. The reasons for these changes should be easily found in HoME 11; part 2; chapter 13 and part 3; chapter IV
DE-EX-xx for Dwarves and Ents, Expansions
Some conventions of my writing:
Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned)
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information
example = text inserted for grammatical or metrical reason
/example/ = outline expansion
Normally if an inserted text includes the beginning of a new § these is indicated by a missing > at the end of the § and a missing < at the beginning of the next.
The title of the chapter might be explained best here: It is combination as is the chapter itself. The first part is documented as title of the replacement for the first part of the LQ 1 chapter 10, the second part is taken from the title given by Christhoper Tolkien to a appropriate chapter in HoME 11 documenting the text of Anaxartaron Onyalie.
DE-EX-02: This was an expansion for grammatical reason done by Christopher Tolkien, which we should follow.
DE-EX-03: The draft for the Letter was contemporary to the text, but it adds some information missing from the text. In this case the possibility to distribute once being, which corresponds nicely to the dispersion of Melkor.
DE-EX-04: I toke this up because it exemplifies that speaking does not mean that being has a soul.
DE-EX-05: Where if not here are we ever to hear the laughter of Eru?
DE-EX-06: This passage goes with the laughter I think.
DE-EX-07: Both the information about Durin being alone and of the elvish guess when the Dwarves awoke are want, from my point of view.
DE-EX-08: The info about the beards should not be lost.
DE-EX-09: I think that is a good way to introduce the false believe of the Elves and the Dwarvish believe of Mahal taking care of them.
DE-EX-10: Here I replaced a part of the text with a more sophisticated and probably later text.
DE-EX-11: To put this younger much short version into this footnote seems to be the best way to include the info it contains.
DE-EX-12: Both the info that the reanimated Kings did posses memories of their former lives and that all this info a marvel to the Elves and only was gained by the friendship of Legolas with Gimli I desire to give in our version.
P.S.: I had to do the chapter all over again, since when I tried to find the sources of my original draft, I found other passages to be added. What as well came up was the fact that for the chapter 20 Of the Naugrim and the Edain not enough about the Naugrim is left. Some passages might be used, but I think we will place them rather in chapter 17 Of BEleriand and it's Realms.
P.P.S.: Please do not expact that I follow up with the next drafts in the same frequency. I put up chapter 1, 2 and 3 get the bridge to the already posted draft of chapter 4.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
I loved all your additions, and the Legolas thing adds a very nice Bilbo-ish dimension to everything. I had only a few comments.
DE-EX-10: I had a question.
DE-EX-11: There is a minor grammatical issue that arises out of combining different sources.
That was it!
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Posts: 497
I actually noticed one more issue. If much of this lore is said to come from Legolas, then how can these be "the words of Pengolodh." I would say the Pengolodh subheading should be removed, since the Legolas bit is later, but that is a matter of debate.
King's Writer
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DE-EX-10 and DE-EX-11: I had some doubts about the naming of Durin here, but I am open to retake the mentionings of Durin. I would only remove the last:
DE-EX-11: gramatical issue: Agreed.
The Legolas/Pengolod issue: Our text is an amalgament of diffrent texts, so I wouldn't say it is a problem.
King's Writer
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I have forgotten to add one important bit from Of Dwarves and Men:
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
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I would hesitate to chop up Of Dwarves and Men, as I have said before. I feel that by removing all the references to the Third Age, we are gutting an essentially complete work for no reason, especially when we can easily include it in its entirety in Volume II.
King's Writer
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I don't think that Of Dwarves and Men is useable complete in volume 2. If at all the essay would fit in volume 3. Of Dwarves and Men is in over all a linguistic essay. But its story content ranges from the awakening of Dwarves to the end of the Third Age.
But I anyhow think that the content is needed in many parts. Pushed in part 3 it is fully out of sequence. I agree that the forward references that are included are valuable. But the question have we to remove them all? In The Silmarillion we as well such forward references. Not over much but a few are there.
King's Writer
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Okay at long last I have made up my mind about the footnote concerning the additional dwarves add by Ilúvatar. I think they are needed. Therefore I propose the following:
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
For this chapter, I produced two texts, separating "Of Aule and the Dwarves" from "Of the Ents and the Eagles".
The basic text is the QS77, with only a few alterations and additions. I used "AD" for the text "Of Aule and the Dwarves".
As usual:
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information
example = text inserted for grammatical or metrical reason
/example/ = outline expansion
AD-01: This opening paragraph of AD was omitted from QS77.
AD-02: Christopher Tolkien says in XI that his father eventually settled on using the formal, "you", throughout AD, whereas QS77 uses "thou". I have reverted all instances of "thou" to "you".
AD-03: As AD-02
AD-04: As AD-02
AD-05: As AD-02
AD-06: Changed per Tolkien's emendation to LQ1.
AD-07: Taking the later version of the statement about the Dwarf-fathers returning to life.
AD-08: The "Longbeards" were later the Dwarves of Khazad-dum, not of Belegost.
AD-09: Removal of Aelfwine.
For my text of "Anaxartaron Onyalië", with QS77 as the basis, I will only indicate the beginning, end, and changes, as the rest follows QS77.
EE-01: Per XI; 'betray' in QS77 was an editorial alteration of 'bewray'.
EE-02: Per XI, as EE-01; 'Iluvatar' in QS77 for original 'Eru'.
EE-03: As EE-02.
Last edited by Aiwendil; 10-09-2017 at 07:04 PM.
King's Writer
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This comparision is a difficult task. I will try to order the differences by occurrence and give some editing mark or some such as reference, so that the discussion might be at least easier to follow.
Happyly we both have chosen in this case the same basic text found in Sil77 page 16-17.
DE-SC-01 / AD-01: we added both these opening back in, but you toke up a bit too much. In your Version It is told that in their beginning the Dwarves were made by Aule in the darkness of Middle-earth; for so greatly did Aule desire the coming of the Children, to have learners to whom he could teach his lore and his crafts, that he was unwilling to await the fulfilment of the designs of Iluvatar. is redundant.
AD-02 to AD-05: I was not so clear about this changes. Was it really all instances that Tolkien changed? If you think so, we can take these changes up into our common version.
DE-EX-01 to DE-EX-07: All these expansions of my draft Aiwendil did decised against or did not consider.
AD-06: The change reporte here is done in Sil77. Therefore I did not mention it.
AD-07: In my version I created a much fuller account of the rebirth of the fathers with DE-EX-10 to DE-EX-12. But I positioned it differently.
In the darkness of Arda already the Naugrim wrought great works, : This passages I did not take up into this chapter. I tried to use as small a portion of Concerning the Dwarves to use it later in its proper place.
DE-EX-07 / The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, ...: This paragraph from AD both have taken up into the draft.
The father-tongue of the Dwarves Aulë himself devised for them, ...: This passages I did not take up into this chapter. I tried to use as small a portion of Concerning the Dwarves to use it later in its proper place.
In their own tongue the Dwarves name themselves Khazâd; ...: This passages I did not take up into this chapter. I tried to use as small a portion of Concerning the Dwarves to use it later in its proper place.
AD-08: I did a change in this passage of course, but quite differently. See the thread about The Siege of Angband.
AD-09: I did not take up this reference to Pengolod, but we might consider it. BY the way was {Pengolod}[Thingódhel] a decision taken by the project? I cant remember.
DE-EX-09 to DE-EX-12: All these expansions of my draft Aiwendil did decised against or did not consider.
Sub-title: Aiwendil used the English title first and the Elvish second, while I did it the other way around. Since both were written of difrent amanuensis typescripts, we are completly free to chose, or was an other idea beyond your choice, Aiwendil?
DE-SC-04 / EE-01: These change was done in both versions. So I assume we agree on it.
DE-SC-05: this footnote found in HoMe 11 explaining kelvar was not taken up by Aiwendil into his draft.
EE-02: This change from Iluvatar to Eru I missed in my Version, so I agree that it should be made.
DE-SC-06: This halfsentence was omitted from Sil778 because Christopher Tolkien thought it might imply that the sun was already in existence when Manwë thought about the Ents. This might have been Aiwendils reason not to include it as well. But since that vision is anyway a look into the future, I dont think the omission is necessary. By the way I wrongly dedicated the source here as HoMe 12, as a matter of fact it is HoMe 11.
DE-SC-07 / EE-03: These change was done in both versions. So I assume we agree on it.
DE-SC-08: This passage was marked by Tolkien for exclusion, but Christopher Tolkien toke it nonetheless up into Sil77. In my draft I skipt it, Aiwendil kept it. I am open to both. In the event it is staing the fact of Middle-earth history that the Ents were doomed to die out in the Fourth Age and the dominion of Men.
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
A few quick comments for now.
The other points require me to look at things a bit more carefully, so I'll do that when I get the chance.
Last edited by Aiwendil; 11-08-2017 at 10:27 AM.
King's Writer
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Posts: 1,552
AD-02 to AD-05: Okay, we take up these changes, but number them all. Also in DE-EX-04 we have:
AD-06: I will include the edditng marker in the text, so that we can trak it.
AD-09: I think that we deciseded against using any diacritical signs in the normal text like ð. Therefore I assume it is Pengolodh. But in the case of Maedhros we have a late text of Tolkien naming him Maedros which was what we adopted. Looking up many of the references we have already included, I think I agree on taken this one up into our version as well, but I think it should go with the passages left of Concerning the Dwarves to the end of Of the Coming of the Noldor
Titel: If your choise was arbitrary, I agrue that the Elvish should be first, since the English seems to be a kind of translation, or not?
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
AD-09: OK. Personally, I don't trouble myself too much about things like ð vs. dh, as this is purely a matter of English orthography. We should, however, go with Tolkien's latest convention.
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
I've finally looked at the rest of the items.
DE-EX-01: I'm uncertain about this. I think there are three issues. First, the fact that Tolkien rejected this passage (and omitted any statement on Dwarf-women in the final version of this text), and second, the fact that some of the five passages here contradict each other, and it is difficult to tell which story has precedence. It is true, however, that of these versions, b, d, and e all seem to be more or less in agreement. Third, in 'Dwarves and Men', we have the note that 'Durin slept alone', in reference to the other six dwarf-fathers being placed in pairs. This seems to offer a different meaning for Durin's 'aloneness' than that in the passages from LQ/'Concerning the Dwarves'. Of course, it doesn't directly contradict LQ/'Concerning the Dwarves' - Durin could have been 'alone' in both senses. But we might consider whether it implicitly suggests that the story of the six brides for seven brothers had been abandoned.
DE-EX-03, -04, -05, -06: Here Findegil combines the dialogue between Aulë and Iluvatar from LQ with that between them from Letter 212. I find myself uncertain about this, and I'm tempted to suggest that we should take one or the other. On the other hand, the additions are not very disruptive and it reads fairly well. So perhaps this combination is OK.
I think a word got dropped in DE-EX-04; it should be:
DE-EX-07: This goes hand in hand with DE-EX-01, of course, and depends on whether we are going to retain the story of the six dwarf-women.
It feels slightly odd to mention the departure of the Elves across the sea here, since that has of course not happened yet. When this text was written, it was obviously intended to come much later in the Quenta Silmarillion. But I suppose it's not the only case of forward-looking references, so it may be fine.
DE-EX-07.1: I can't agree with this one. The source is Christopher Tolkien's statement:
DE-EX-07.2: In this long addition from 'Dwarves and Men', I worry more about the anachronisms. The whole passage comes very much from a later point of view. It does contain good information that I think we would definitely like to include somewhere, though. I wonder if it would work better later, when Dwarves first enter Beleriand and meet the Sindar. Of course, the 'Third Age' reference would still be an anachronism, but that could be either tolerated or removed.
Actually, this brings up a fundamental point that I don't think we've discussed. We have so far assumed that we are following QS77 in moving the creation-story of the Dwarves to just after the building of Valinor and combining it with 'The Ents and the Eagles'. But is there not something to be said for the option of following Tolkien's placement of it in LQ? That is, not telling about the creation of the Dwarves until after the flight of the Noldor, when it is then told retrospectively? Of course, that would leave 'Ents and Eagles' somewhat homeless. I'm not necessarily arguing that we should do that, but we should at least think about it and be able to enunciate why we are following QS77 in this regard.
DE-EX-08: This is a debatable one - on the one hand, Tolkien left this information out of the revised version of this text, which normally I would say means we should consider it rejected. But on the other hand, in LotR appendix A we have closely matching information on dwarf-women, so it seems the ideas here were not rejected.
DE-EX-09: I don't see much value in this addition. It doesn't really add anything beyond what is immediately after stated about Dwarvish and Elvish beliefs.
DE-EX-10: I think this is good. But the footnotes (particularly the second one) strike me as very much informal commentary/speculation by Tolkien, and I think we may want to reconsider including them.
DE-EX-11: This addition seems completely redundant with what was said before, and I would remove it.
DE-EX-12: This looks good, and in this case I think the footnote is fine.
DE-SC-05: I missed this footnote, but I agree it should be included.
DE-SC-06: I think I'm still inclined to omit this half sentence. Yes, it's true that it is explicitly looking forward in time, but Yavanna's reference to the sun makes it sound as if the sun is something already known and familiar to both her and Manwë, which I don't think can be the case.
DE-SC-08: On reflection, I think I agree we should omit this, as in Findegil's draft, since Tolkien rejected it.
Last edited by Aiwendil; 11-10-2017 at 01:48 PM.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
DE-EX-01: I would say that simply logically, the Dwarf women would need to be there. If there were no dwarf-women that were laid to rest with the fathers, then the Dwarves could not have begun their race. It seems to me like a logical fallacy from Tolkien's part to suggest that they did not have spouses, and if he omitted it I cannot think that he was suggesting they did not exist, but rather simply chose not to mention them. Therefore, I think we can assume that the dwarf-women story was not rejected, simply because it cannot be rejected, on a simply logical basis.
DE-EX-03,04,05,06: I think it is a good combination, since as you said it reads well, and I would personally consider an actual text by Tolkien as a better primary document than the Letter. Fin's inclusion of the pieces of dialogue that are not in the other version seem like simply filling in the gaps, and I think it flows well.
De-EX-07: As I said above, I think we cannot reject the dwarf-women. In terms of forward references, this was a main point of contention between Fin and I in the inclusion of the D&M material. But overall I think he has convinced me that it is better to include it in its natural place, and a few forward references are not bad.
DE-EX-07.1: I think this argument makes sense, so I agree with you.
DE-EX-07.2: This addition contains a wealth of information that is definitely needed for inclusion. As it is, this whole chapter is a treatise on the Dwarves as a people, and I think it does belong here. If it does not belong here, then it belongs in the Third or Second Age material, but I think that is too late a placement certainly. I think losing the Third Age references as Fin has done is simple enough, and does not lose too much information that would be good to include. If we really decide the two minor points are worth including later we can do so as well, but I think we wont need to.
As for the placement of the chapter, I believe the reason for its inclusion here is to a) allow for a part 1 of the Ents and Eagles text, which assumes knowledge of the creation of the Dwarves and b) because the creation of the dwarves happens chronologically at this time, and therefore makes most sense to include here. If we include it later, it would be as a flashback, and then as you said, the problem of where to include the Ents and Eagles chapter becomes quite thorny. As it assumes the creation of dwarves is known, we cannot place it before that tale is told, which would mean it must be told sometime after the Coming of the Noldor. This is an issue, as it helps also to set up the Eagles of Manwe which come into play when Fingon rescues Maedros on Thangorodrim, and needs to be before it. Thus, I think we must stick with this placement of the chapter. It will make this chapter unusual due to its nature, but it will be unusual no matter where it is placed.
DE-EX-08: I am in favor of retaining the addition, since, as you said, the ideas were not actually rejected.
DE-EX-09: If you think it is redundant then I am not opposed to removing it.
DE-EX-10: While the footnote is somewhat off in style, I do think it contains information not found elsewhere which would be a bad thing to lose.
DE-EX-11: How is this redundant?
De-EX-12: agreed.
DE-SC-05: agreed.
DE-SC-06: I think yoou are right, as it makes the Sun look expected at the least, when in SM they struggle to think of what to do when the trees die.
DE-SC-08: agreed.
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,552
DE-EX-01: What is more important then the fact that b, d and e agree to each other is that these agrees to Letter no.212. Since Rhona Beare who recieved that letter was a leader of a group of Tolkien fans. It was clear to Tolkien that his answeres would be pronounced in that group. This is of course far from publication, but nonetheless giving the letter an extra portion of priority.
DE-EX-04: The missing "you" was a good chatch. I changed the source info and shortedn it by CD for Concerning the Dwarves and D&M for Dwarves and Men.
DE-EX-07.1: Okay, I can see your concerns. In stating that Eru added the other dwarves we would generate a fact in Middle-earth that has no source in Tolkien. And as much as I think this changed story makes a lot of sense, I agree not to use it.
DE-EX-07.2: I agree to the argument of ArcusCalion that the placement here of the chapter and this passaged from D&M fit best here. The conetent of the chapter must be shifted anyhow, since in its original place the first mentioning of the Dwarves in the narrative (in chapter 13 Of the Sindar) would come before the story of their making. We could of course shift this passage from D&M to the end of chapter 16 where the first encounter of Noldor and Dwarves is reported. But I doubt very much that its incooperation would be smother there.
DE-EX-08: If we would discard this passage because Tolkien did not take it up into his final version, we would need to form some text from LotR, Appendix to contain the information about the female dwarves. In other cases like that we prefered to restore the rejected passages, and I think that is here the better way as well.
DE-EX-09: I don't see that this is redundant with what follows. What I includes from that Letter is: 1. That what was told so far is the Elvish version of the story. 2. That Elves and Men know nothing of the fate of the fëa of the Dwarves after death. Only the second could be said to be redundant to the false belief that Dwarves return to earth and stone. But is that a statment about the dwarvish fëa at all?
DE-EX-10, second footnote: If, as Aiwendil thinks, this is Tolkien think with the pen, then taking the footnote as it is would change Tolkien's uncertainty to one of the author of our text. To avoid that we could edit out the uncertainty.
DE-EX-11: As ArcusCalion I think this is not redundant but complimentary.
DE-SC-06: In the later conception of the Valar it is unthinkable that they would not know about the sun before its making. They might not have precived the importance or greatness of that source of light, but even so the Vision of Eä cased before the dominion of Men began, I don't belive it cased before Men awoke. And anyhow the Ainulindalë was over all. All the Valar therefore must have been a rough idea about the history of Eä to come and must have include some idea about the sun. In addition Yavanna is speaking about Middle-earth and here words are reported by an unknown author in retrospec. So what ever she actually said in reffering to the light to come over that part of the world would in retrospec of the author be interpretable as the Sun.
And about not knowing what to do when the Trees are dead: It is one thing to know roughly what is the final result and quiet another to archive that result when the time for your action comes along, especially if (as we are told they were not) the Valar did not have a clear vision of the time scale of the Music and the Vision. It seems that none of the events in the history could be fortold by the Valar with precise timing.
DE-SC-08: Okay, we will restore that passaged.
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
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DE-EX-07: I found a contradiction that we must adress: In Quendi and Eldar, dated 1959-60, it is said that, the Dwarves 'claimed to have known Beleriand before even the Eldar first came there'. This is contradict, in a way, by the Passage (e) from Concerning the Dwraves, dated 1969-70, that we toke up into our text: "But it is not known when Durin or his brethren first awoke, though some think that it was at the time of the departure of the Eldar over sea." Even so we could argue that 'some think' as a qualifier is enough to make the contradiction bearable, but I would here rather use principle 2b and skip the second half of the sentence.
Beside that I will again break a lance for DE-EX-07.1. How do we think that with the 6 couples and one additional male and the reported unprolific behaevier of the Dwarves with in such a short time as given between the awakening of the Elves and the Eldar reaching Beleriand such a variation like the Petty-Dwarves would be reached? I think that their is no question that these additional Dwarves are needed. The question then is hwo we could take that info up into our text without stating unkown facts like who made these additional Dwarves.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
DE-EX-07, 07.1: For the first one, I think simply removing the second part of the sentence is the safest bet, like Fin suggests. As for the issue with the Dwarves propagating, by the old relation of YT to YS, there is a period of around 700 years from the awakening of the Elves to the time when the Vanyar and Noldor first entered Beleriand. I know we are not necessarily abiding by this timeline due to the uncertainty of the relations, but this is the timeframe imagined (any revisions only make this time period longer, so this is the shortest time frame possible.) I would say that 700 years is plenty of time for the Firebeards and Broadbeams to have exiled the smaller and more deformed of their race (i.e. the Petty Dwarves) and for them to have grown enough. Obviously having an entire race formed from a single pair of people presents a bunch of genetic issues, but as this is a fantasy world that may be overlooked. I would say 700 years is enough time for the pairs story to make sense.
King's Writer
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700 years is for Dwarves not so much. Let assume the Fathers started at once to beget children, since each generation takes 100 sun years get children of their own, generation no 8 would be just born when the Elves entered Beleriand. If we calculate that 3 generations are alive at the same time and each generation would 1.5 times greater as the one before (which is a very high rate considering what we are told about the dwarves):
Generation 6 (the grandparants): 4 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 30.375
Generation 7 (the parants): 4 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 45.5625
Generation 8 (the children): 4 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 x1.5 = 68.34375
And this is calculated for both Nogrod and Belegost together. How could they already push out a portion of this? And how could these develop to a smaller varity?
If at all this would function with the 144 S.Y = 1 V.Y. calculation, where generation 106 is just born when the Elves enter Beleriand.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
As for the smaller variety, random mutations occur in any generation, especially since the Dwarves are a very small gene pool. That there would be a portion of them born even in the third or fourth generation with mutations is not unreasonable, and that they would be ostracized is canon.
King's Writer
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Okay, lets have a bit more of these calculations:
Form AAm we learn that, the earliest time for the awakening of the father of the Dwarves is Valian Year 1050 (that is when the elves awoke). The Eldar enter Beleriand in Valian Year 1125. So the maximum time we have is 75 Valian Years (VY).
In LotR, Appendix A we are told that the Dwarves get their first children about the 100th year of the Sun (SY) of their life. That would mean that the average time between one generation and the next is a bit longer, but for the easier calculation let us stick with 100 SY.
In addition we learn: The number of dwarf-men that marry is actually less than one-third. In the Line of the Dwarves of Erebor the greatest number of sons recorded for one Dwarf is 3. If that would be a general fact the race would not grow but dwindle. So we have to assume that earlier the Dwarves that married got more children, let us assume 4 sons of which 1.3 in average would marry and beget children on their part. (This is already a stretch, since it would mean 5.3 children in average for each couple including the daughters.)
For easy reference I will now call the 7 Fathers generation 0 (G0), their sons and daughters G1 and so on.
Now we are told that Durin had no wife and that his people were gathered from other houses. That means that Durin did take part in the propagation of his race only starting from generation 1 (G1) and that we have to split the total number of Dwarves starting from generation 1 by 7 to get the number of Dwarves in each House.
The split between the Petty-Dwarves and the Dwarves of the Ered Luin will not be taken into account by the calculation. It must have occurred early in the time period described above, but probably later then generation 2 and the gathering Durins people.
The mathematic:
A) The Second Generation:
We do not want the total number of Dwarves in that generation, we are only interested in the couples for producing the further generations: The prolific of spring of the 6 fathers plus Durin and his wife: 6 x 1.3 + 1 = 8.8
We will round that to 9 and start from that number after a time of 100 SY.
B) Assuming 1 VY = 9.582 SY:
75 VY x 9.582 SY/VY = 718.65 SY.
That means we have G7 as children, G6 as parents and G5 as grandparents. To calculate the total number of Dwarves in G5 we need the number of prolific couples in G4:
9 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 = 9 x 1.3**3 = 19.773
Total number of Dwarves in G5 is: 19.773 x 5.3 = 105
Number of prolific couple in G5: 9 x 1.3**4 = 25.7049
Total number of Dwarves in G6 is: 25.7049 x 5.3 = 136
Number of prolific couple in G6: 9 x 1.3**5 = 33.41637
Total number of Dwarves in G7: 33.41637 x 5.3 = 177
Total number of Dwarves alive: 105 +136 + 177 = 405
Total number of Dwarves in Beleriand and Ered Lindon: 405 x 2 / 7 = 116
I dont think that is enough.
C) Assuming 1 VY = 144 SY:
75 VY x 144 SY/VY = 10800 SY.
That means we have G108 as children, G107 as parents and G106 as grandparents. Doing the same mathematic as above would yield 38.5 x 10^12 Dwarves in Beleriand and Ered Lindon, which is far too much. That means in this case we could go with fare more realistic procreation rates and would none the less come to realistic numbers of Dwarves.
If we assume 1 VY = 9.582 SY we need the additional Dwarves laid to sleep near the fathers. If we assume 1VY = 144 SY we do not need them.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
Fin that was amazing kudos!!!
It appears that the issue of the Years of the Trees to Years of the Sun ratio is far more important than we thought. Hopefully it only becomes material in this instance, but perhaps we really do need to tackle the issue after all and come to a definitive answer on which is correct?
As for me, with the LotR appendix and the "Aman" essay, along with Tolkien's notes that the time before the Sun needed to be expanded, I think we have clear indications that the YT -> YS was 144 rather than ~10. The lengthening of time was proposed by him to give adequate time for the expansion of Men, but as we have decided to reject the Sun from the beginning or the Men awakening before the Sun versions of the story, this cannot apply. The Awakening of the Elves and their march would suddenly become much much longer than they were before, but only if we used the dates from AAm, which were based off of an older system, which certainly would no longer apply under the new conception. Thus, to me, it seems the biggest obstacles to the 1YT = 144YS is the time of the Sindar in Beleriand. If they existed (and the Noldor in Valinor) for hundreds upon hundreds of years, their society as the Noldor found it would appear to be far too scanty and unestablished for the time period allotted. On the other hand, we are told that Elves have few children, and do not necessarily marry young, so they increase their numbers very very slowly, which might account for it. Along with that, the Second and Third Ages make very little sense from a population distribution point of view, and they are indisputable canon, so there are clearly population-based flaws inherent in the Tolkien mythos. Should we simply agree that 1YT = 144YS without ever explicitly saying so? This would allow us to leave out the (risky) other Dwarves near the Fathers, as well as justifying a longer period before the stars (as was Tolkien's wish). Thoughts?
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
I've been a bit under the weather for the past few days, and thus moving more slowly with this. But I may as well post what I have at the moment. A few more thoughts should follow soon.
DE-EX-01: You both make good points, and I agree the story of the dwarf-women was not rejected. The part that chiefly concerned me was that the possible re-interpretation of 'Durin slept alone' in 'Dwarves and Men' might mean that the detail of six dwarf-women, and Durin without a mate, might have been rejected. However, that detail was well-established, and I think much less ambiguous evidence would be needed to conclude that it was rejected. So I agree to use this passage.
In any case, I think that there is sufficient doubt expressed in both passages that they neednt be considered to contradict each other. The Dwarves claim to have been in Beleriand before the Elves; others say that the Dwarves did not awaken until the Eldar departed over the sea.
I cant quibble with the calculations Findegil has provided, though I would question whether it is necessarily a valid assumption that the information about Dwarvish marriage and reproduction found in Appendix A applies equally well to the first Dwarves as it does to the Dwarves of the late Third Age. I could easily imagine that early in their history, Dwarves were more likely to marry, married at a younger age, and had more children.
As for 9.582 vs. 144 - as I explained in the other thread, I am now convinced that the 144 figure for the Elvish yén and the 9.582 figure for the Valian Year coexisted simultaneously, and that the idea of a 144 year Valian Year entered later and was part and parcel of the proposed revised chronology, with Men awakening much earlier. But I think it would be best if we can retain ambiguity on this.
All in all, then, I think that we cannot add these additional Dwarves, but must either:
a) reject the statement that Dwarves were in Beleriand before the Elves
b) accept the statement about the Dwarvish claim but deem in non-contradictory (either because it is only a claim or because we can imagine the early dwarves being more prolific than their descendants) or
c) somehow leave the text ambiguous so that even though additional Dwarves are not explicitly mentioned, nothing contradicts the possibility that either Aule or Eru added additional Dwarves
DE-EX-07.2: Yes, as I look more carefully at other possible placements for this material, I think I agree that this is the best place for it. I still find it a little awkward that it jumps forward to talk about the awakening of the fathers and the dispositions of the Dwarvish clans, but that is not a problem per se.
King's Writer
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DE-EX-07: For the sake of safety I am still inclined to skip the speculation about the Dwarves awakening at the time when the Eldar left Middle-earth.
DE-EX-07.1: Since we did not specify in our text what ratio we assume between VY and SY, we could simple leave the issue with the Dwarvish procreation necessary for the story of the Petty-Dwarves unaddressed.
a) Does sound simple, but would mean some changes in the farther chapters where the story of the Petty-Dwarves is retold. Even in the Narn and RoD so it is not made explicit the story is in the background. Therefore this option does not work for me.
b) This option would work for me as descript above, so I would, as said in DE-EX-07, at least skip the impossible speculation of the late awakening.
c) I can see a way to be ambiguous about who made these additional Dwarves, but how we could edit a text that implicitly suggest the additional Dwarves without mentioning them within our rules, is beyond me imagination in the moment.
DE-EX-08: Good, we will keep the passage.
DE-EX-09: I agree that the circumstances of the statement suggest that it applies to the dwarvish fëa. But what fate would that be? Imprisoned in the stone/tomb forever? Annihilation of the fëa? Good that we do not have to solve that riddle! I agree to your suggestion to remove the statement about Elves and Men knowing nothing of the fate of Dwarvish fear after death and to keep that about this being an Elvish myth.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
DE-EX-07: I agree with Fin
DE-EX-07.1: I agree that leaving it ambiguous is best, so I would also go with b)
DE-EX-09: Agreed.
If there's nothing else, is that the end of Chapter 3?
Late Istar
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Posts: 2,149
King's Writer
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Aiwendil get well soon!
And take all the time you need for this.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
Aiwendil. I hope you´re well soon.
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
Thanks for the well-wishes! It was nothing really serious, but I was in bed with a fever for a week and simply not able to muster much brain-power for anything. But as I'm well on the road to recovery, here are the few remaining comments:
Not necessarily redundant, I suppose, is the second sentence:
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 497
DE-EX-10: agreed
DE-EX-11: This is true, it does seem to only repeat the same thought in different terms. I am leaning towards Aiwendil's point of view on this.
DE-SC-06: The Sun reference should definitely be omitted.
DE-SC-08: This was indeed agreed to be removed, I am not sure what Fin is saying here.
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,552
DE-EX-10: Agreed.
DE-EX-11: Okay, we skipt this.
DE-SC-06: Okay, if both of you think we should removed it, we will do it.
DE-SC-08: Opps, sorry it seems I wrote it wrong way around. We will removed the sentence.
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,149
Great - I think with that, we have resolved everything for this chapter.
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2017
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This is going great guys! Can I just take a moment to say how awesome it is to be a part of this project? Thank you guys for starting this all those years ago, and for continuing on with it. It's really amazing!
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text:
UW-Platteville scored seven passing touchdowns to take a 62-20 win over UW-Stout Saturday at Pioneer Stadium.
The Pioneers ran out to a 35-3 lead before Stout scored a TD with a minute left in the first half, giving Platteville a 35-10 halftime lead. The Pioneers added 21 more points in the third quarter, with all three scores coming through the air.
The Pioneers' quarterback Bryce Corrigan was 23-of-34 for 356 yards and seven touchdowns. Trevor Whitehead had TD pass receptions of 57-, 40-, 10-, 64-yards, finishing with five receptions for 181 yards.
The Pioneers (7-2, 4-2 WIAC) took advantage of good field position on their first drive of the game, going 38 yards in seven plays to score on a Corrigan 8-yard pass to Ryley Bailey at 9:57 of the first period. After picking off a Stout pass on the next series, the Pioneers scored on a Corrigan to Paul Reit 4-yard connection at 7:22.
The Blue Devils (3-6, 1-5 WIAC) scored on their next drive. With Hank Kujak (So, Blair) making his first start in place of the injured Michael Blizel, the Blue Devils got in position for a Ricky Marteney (Jr, Greenfield) 29-yard field goal just before the end of the period.
It would be Corrigan and the rest of the Pioneers pretty much the rest of the way, as the Pioneers scored three TDs in the second period, including two TD pass receptions of 65- and 40-yards by Whitehead. Stout did get on the board when Kujak drove Stout 70 yards in 13 plays, capping of the drive with a 6-yard TD toss to Mike Gervanek (Sr, Baxter, Minn) with just over a minute left in the half.
Whitehead scored on receptions of 10- and 57-yards, and Reit, who finished with nine catches, scored his second TD of the day in the third quarter. Eric Brown (Sr, St. Paul, Minn) scored from four yards out to open the fourth period. The Pioneers scored their final TD of the day on a 77-yard run by Travis Nelson early in the fourth. Marteney closed out the day's scoring with a 27-yard field goal with eight minutes remaining in the game.
Kujak completed 16-of-32 passes for 149 yards, with one score, but was intercepted twice. Tight end Josh Peterson (Sr, Cedar Grove) had six receptions for 64 yards to lead Stout.
Stout finished the day with 314 total yards of offense, 156 passing, 158 rushing. The Pioneers tallied 477 yards of offense, 358 passing, 119 on the ground.
The 62 points is the most a Stout team has given up since a 62-34 loss to UW-Stevens Point in 1998.
Stout will close out the season, Saturday, Nov. 10 when they host conference champion UW-Oshkosh at 2 p.m.
Pioneers blaze path through the airwaves on way to seven aerial TDs
|UW-Stout (3-6)
|No. 13 UW-Platteville (7-2)
UW-Platteville scored seven passing touchdowns to take a 62-20 win over UW-Stout Saturday at Pioneer Stadium.


text:
dmm necesitaba un nuevo diseño de otro y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 38 diseños de 7 diseñadores freelance.
I have a 3-pg document at http://www.portfoliopathway.com/fil…iagram.pdf. Pg 1 is a drawing that attempts to visually explain rolling up layers of accounts. Pg 2 is simply my logo (I'd like to keep this in mind when designing). Pg 3 is a document that will need to made into a thumbnail to be used within the graphic.
What I am trying to get across is the following:
My system allows people to see reports at three levels.
- The lowest being the account level (Pershing account in my drawing)
- The second level (group level) rolls up data for any accounts in the lowest level (Dad's IRA in my drawing), or
- The highest level (Household in my drawing) rolls up data for any group(s) and/or single account(s) (Kids' 529 Account in my example) not in a group
- AI and high quality jpg file.
- Simple, clean, professional look
- Model after my logo maybe
- Use Calibri font
- Maybe use colors to help explain (I attempted this in my drawing)
- Nothing too flashy


text:
|Biosequences .. Software .. Molbio soft .. Network News .. FTP
On August 14-17, 1995, UCLA Extension will present the short course, "Computational Chemistry for Materials and Drug Design", on the UCLA campus in Los Angeles. The instructors are Richard Judson, PhD, Senior Member of the Technical Staff, Sandia National Laboratories; Tony Hopfinger, PhD, Professor, Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy, University of Illinois at Chicago; and Michael Colvin, PhD, Senior Member of the Technical Staff, Sandia National Laboratories. This course provides a broad introduction to computational molecular modeling. A variety of methods are discussed which range from statistical methods based on experimental data to high-level ab initio quantum chemical calculations. The course stresses how different methods can be appropriately applied in a variety of situations. These methods include molecular dynamics, quantum chemistry, and statistical methods such as QSAR (Quantitative Structure Activity Relationships). Lectures also introduce homology-based protein modeling and general-purpose optimization methods used across a range of computational chemistry methods. The course combines descriptions of methods with applications to specific areas, including predictions of physical properties of molecules (solubilities, conformations, pKa, diffusion coefficients, etc.), predictions of binding properties of drugs (binding geometries and energetics), and statistical prediction of various properties from experimental data. Methods are illustrated with case studies, and the course also addresses the use of available commercial modeling software both in lectures and hands-on sessions. Specific topics include: Molecular Modeling, Computer Lab Session, Quantum Chemistry, Case Study, Continuum Solvent Models, Case Study, Polarizable Treatment of Metals, Computer Lab Session, Quantitative Structure Activity Relationship (QSAR), Molecular Diversity and Computer -Assisted Molecular Design, Case Study, Computer Lab Session, Applications of Computational Methods to Polymeric Materials Design, Commonly Used Optimization Methods in Chemical Calculations, Protein Homology Modeling, and Commercially Available Modeling Software. The fee for the course is $1395, which includes extensive course materials. For additional information and a complete course description, please contact Marcus Hennessy at: (310) 825-1047 (310) 206-2815 fax mhenness at unex.ucla.edu


text:
Dilafruz Williams, Education faculty and Portland School Board co-chair, participated in a White House Meeting with urban school leaders.
On March 16, the Council of the Great City Schools, a coalition of the nation's largest urban public school systems, led some 30 urban school superintendents and board members to a roundtable discussion with Secretary of Education Arne Duncan and Obama Administration officials at the White House to discuss how best to utilize the economic stimulus package to improve and advance American urban public education.
"We had an opportunity to learn how we might take advantage of the stimulus funds in creating and saving hundreds of programs to help our inner city children achieve, implementing shovel ready projects to aid in modernizing our school buildings, and investing in initiatives to provide the best school teachers and principals in underserved schools," said Council Executive Director Michael Casserly.
Dilafruz Williams, secretary-treasurer of the Council and co-chair of the Portland School Board, noted that the roundtable discussion highlighted the provisions of the stimulus funds. "We will need to spend the funds effectively and wisely in a rather short period of time. With this meeting we were able to clarify the guidelines and how best to put the funds to use to accelerate reform. There is a sense of urgency to use the stimulus dollars; we must be prudent and show results."
Joining Williams were school leaders from New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Miami, Detroit, Philadelphia and other major cities throughout the nation who attended the two hour session.
In addition to Secretary Duncan, the urban educators also met with President Obama's senior adviser, Valerie Jarrett.


text:
CINCINNATI, OHIO - Kathleen "Kate" Kelly, of Cincinnati, Ohio, passed away on Thursday, Sept. 13, 2012 in Seattle, Wash. with her family by her side.
Kate was born in Troy on Feb. 28, 1950, the daughter of Barbara (Tyrell) and the late Charles E. Kelly.
She is survived by a daughter, Tyrell Loring Pentz of Cincinnati; her sisters: Barbara Kelly Balatero and brother-in-law Pru Balatero of Seattle, Carol Kelly-Rohach and brother-in-law Kendall Rohach of Denver, Colo.; her brothers: Joseph Kelly of Aspen, Colo. and Douglas KellyChaison and sister-in-law Deb KellyChaison of Montpelier, Va.; a niece Katy Balatero and nephew David Balatero, both of Seattle; nephews: Scoti Kelly of Longmont, Colo. and Charles Kelly of Loveland, Colo.; her long-time partner Paul Ravenscroft, of Cincinnati; her former husband Douglas Pentz; and Peggy Ramundo, her close friend and co-author of the popular ADD book for adults, "You Mean I'n not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?"
Article Photos
Kate has been internationally recognized by the ADD board for her work in coaching adults with ADD and also for training and mentoring new coaches. In 2008, she attended and graduated from the "One Spirit" seminary in New York City, where she earned the title of Reverend Kate Kelly.
Kate attended the University of Connecticut, majoring in theater, and then spent a year with the Hartford Ballet Company as a teacher trainee.
After moving to Colorado, she received a degree in nursing from Arapahoe Community College and then completed her bachelors degree with New York SUNY and her masters in psychiatric nursing from the University of Cincinnati.
A memorial for Kate will be held in October in Cincinnati.


text:
Possible Duplicate:
Error 404 when Tags are clicked
How to make link on tag cloud web part works?
I am getting error "404 Not Found" when I click tag link on tag cloud web part, I have created tag, using tag tool on ribbon , and it showed on tag cloud webpart, but when i clicked link on tag cloud webpart, the page show error "404 Not Found".
Suggestion please.....,


text:
Two UNC football players talk about academic fraud on HBO, ESPN
Two more football players say in national cable TV reports Tuesday that UNC-Chapel Hill's tutoring program for athletes steered them to suspect classes to help keep them eligible to play sports.
Deunta Williams, a former defensive back, said he and other football players took no-show classes within the African studies department that were advertised as lecture-style classes but actually never met and only required a paper at the end. Grades were typically good. Bryon Bishop said he was steered to African studies when he showed up at the university because it had plenty of easy classes.
Williams spoke on ESPN's Outside The Lines program Tuesday afternoon, while Bishop is featured in an HBO Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel report that begins airing Tuesday at 10 p.m. Michael McAdoo, another former UNC football player who previously spoke to The News & Observer and The New York Times about the classes, is also on the HBO report.
Williams has given numerous interviews since he received a four-game suspension during the NCAA's investigation into improper financial benefits from agents and others nearly four years ago. While he's been critical of other ways in which athletic demands impeded academic opportunities for athletes, this is the first time he has acknowledged being in the no-show classes.
He told ESPN that the no-shows were a crutch for the tutoring program and for coaches who wanted to keep football players on the field.
"I think the coaches knew enough to understand what was going on," Williams said. "I think they knew about the system itself, and if a guy was in trouble the immediate response was, 'Why not put him in a paper class where he can receive help, get an A or a B out of this class for writing a good paper.'"
Bishop graduated with a degree in African studies. He told HBO that he was steered to that major when he entered the university.
He said advisers told him to take the classes because they were easy. "To stay on course for graduation, you need to take these courses," he recalled them saying.
HBO reports Bishop is working a low-skill job for a drug treatment facility.
"You can't see the things that's going on in the system until it's over with, until it's too late and I'm pretty much facing that now," he said.
The HBO report also looks into academic integrity questions at the University of Memphis and Oklahoma University.


text:
The Typehouse necesitaba un nuevo diseño de logotipo y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 99 diseños de 30 diseñadores freelance.
UK-based IT company needs a compelling new logo that reflects its clear, professional direction as experts in Enterprise Architecture and IT Consulting.
There will be one prize: US$300.
No building architectural designs please – it's not that kind of architecture!
C S Wilson Limited (can be abbreviated to Ltd.) -- cswilson.co.uk & cswilson.com
We're launching a company concentrating on IT EnterpriseArchitecture and IT Consulting. Consequently we are lookingfor something fresh, unique, memorable and, most importantly, willstand the test of time...we want the logo to grow with our companyinto a strong brand, whilst being clean and simple.
For clarification:
Enterprise Architecture is theapplication of architectural processes and techniques across theenterprise, leading to a holistic architectural model for the wholeenterprise.
It is closely aligned, even joined, tothe enterprise strategy.
The Logo will be used both for web and print purposes.
Upon contest completion and full transfer of payment, the designerwill be expected to sign a contract transferring all ownership(copyright and title) of the final design over to C S Wilson Limited.The Logo will become the property of C S Wilson Limited, with thedesigner retaining the right to display the artwork in theirportfolio and advertising materials. Please do not participate if youare not prepared to comply with this standard-industry procedure.
We will give regular feedback and eliminate designs that are adefinite "no".
- Logo should give 'feeling' of – creativity, top-quality, credibility, reliability and professionalism.- The logo should be instantly distinguishable with an original design feature/graphic element or unique font.- The graphic element should be able to be extracted for use as a favicon.- Please no templates. Original artwork only.- Transparent background- Color is great, but keep in mind the logo should also translate/work well in B&W
- Vector CMYK Format (logo needs to enlarge w/o quality loss for large exhibition sized posters for conferences). Adobe Illustrator
Winning designer will be required to hand over the completed vector file and some bmp/gif images in various sizes.
- The domain names should not appear in the logo
- Logo needs to work well in print - so please no 3D effects or complicated colour gradients.
- No building architectural designs please – it's not that kind of architecture!
- No busy/fussy designs.
Descubre cómo funciona un concurso de diseño u obtén más información sobre nuestros servicios de diseño de logo.


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Roses, lilies, carnations and foliage in a glass cylinder vase.Approx. 21 W x 25 H
Price: $79.99 USD
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In most cases same day delivery available for orders placed before 2:00 PM in the recipient's time zone (noon on Saturdays)
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text:
Bu necesitaba un nuevo diseño de camiseta y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 75 diseños de 26 diseñadores freelance.
I speak around the world to youth. This t-shrt should be relevant and VERY attractive to this audience. Culture of our company is youthful, edgy, and fun.
The target audience for this t-shirt would be middle school and high school students. The kids who will buy this shirt and the ones that wear t-shirts that have a simple message and are unique. This is what the shirt should encompass. It should not be your standard everyday shirt.
Here are the parameters.
I do not have a ford pinto image, but one must be on the shirt.
The title "Pimp my Pinto" must be on the shirt.
Must be unisex design.
I am open to designs with just one color, but would also like ideas for multi-color shirts.
Simple. Clean Bold. If you have extra image ideas to incorporate into the shirt, go for it.
maybe the website http://www.pimpmypinto.com should be placed somewhere as well.
Lastly, I would like these fairly soon. So preference will be given to the first tier of designs coming in. Thanks.


text:
Java Desktop crashes during Sun's CEO keynote at CTIA
Usually these kinds of things only happen to Microsoft, nevertheless, here we are. Scott McNealy, CEO of Sun Microsystems, was delivering a keynote speech to a full room at CTIA Wireless 2004 when his Linux machine, running Sun's Java Desktop unexpectedly became completely frozen.
He had to reset the machine and they quickly switched to a pre-recorded standby video presentation.
In the words of our on-the-floor journalist covering the event for LXer, "it was embarrassing."
He did not disclose which distribution he was running, as the talk was primarily centered around Java and their thin client architecture, with an emphasis on Sun but brief mentions of open source.
Update 2004-03-24: Due to the gloating from the Microsofty crowd, I feel obligated to point out that it was Sun's Java Desktop that crashed, NOT the Linux operating system. Sorry to disappoint! ;-)
|Topic Starter
|Last Post
|Um, Sun's Java Desktop is Linux......
|Jan 8, 2005 7:20 PM
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text:
Nanix necesitaba un nuevo diseño de página web y lanzó un concurso de diseño en 99designs.
Un ganador ha sido elegido entre 13 diseños de 3 diseñadores freelance.
Phase Fat Burner (http://www.phasefatburner.com)
I'm an internet marketer looking to launch this product with a new design. Phase Fat Burner is a newly developed weight loss supplement that works in three distinct steps to provide lab tested results.
I want this site to stand out from the rest in the industry and give it a new web 2.0 feel while still maintaining a trusting feeling. If you feel like your the designer that can give me the edge, please submit a design.
The target audience for this product is females ages 20-45. It is a very competitive industry so focus on graphics and colors that would be compelling for someone in this category. Women like to see what they could be like which is evident in today's magazines.
They fit in the low - average income range and often have a lot of interest in the general health industry.
I'm looking to get a complete website redesign of the first page on my site phasefatburner.com. I want a site that will have a high conversion rate for sign-ups to a trial of the product.
I don't want to give too many specifics because I want a wide variety of designs to choose from. The design should keep the same content that is currently on the site as well as a place to include testimonies and room to expand the page downward with more content.
I would like some emphasis on the three step process.
Heat Blend - Burns unwanted fat
Muscle Blend - Re-sculpts your body
Energy Blend - Replenishes your energy
This site must have a sign up form with the similar fields as the one the site currently has which will be located near the top so it is visible for a new visitor immediately.
This site currently does not have much of a logo to speak of so feel free to change it as much or as little as you like, whatever fits your design best. We will be modeling the product label after your overall design.
I am open to any colors as long as they work together.
Examples of websites that I like:
socialengine.net - overal feel of the web 2.0
trials.idolhealth.com - landing page layouts
The sites above are just to give a general direction. Please use your creativity.
Color scheme: open but would like a lighter background. Show me what you think works best.


text:
CALGARY - Janet Baker says her life ended the day her son died in a training accident in Afghanistan nearly three years ago.
The mother of Cpl. Josh Baker was so emotionally fragile that she was already crying as she was assisted by a soldier on her way to speak at the sentencing of a Calgary reservist convicted in her son's death.
"I don't really have a life anymore. It's just an existence," said Baker through her tears.
"Two people died on the field that day in two different ways. Joshua and myself.
"There is no life. I'm just waiting for that time when my life is over and I can join my son," Baker said, her voice barely a whisper.
Baker said she saluted her boy when his flag-draped coffin arrived at CFB Trenton and told him how proud she was of him.
A few days later she was able to say a private goodbye at a funeral home.
"I said, 'I'm your mother and I brought you into this world. I was supposed to keep you safe but I couldn't save you this time.'"
Several people inside the military courtroom joined Baker in her tears during her testimony.
Baker was one of six witnesses called by the prosecution Monday to testify about what impact the accident had on them.
Last month, Maj. Darryl Watts was found guilty by a military jury of unlawfully causing bodily harm and negligent performance of military duty in the accident.
Josh Baker, 24, died when a Claymore anti-personnel mine loaded with 700 steel balls peppered the platoon on a practice range near Kandahar city in February 2010.
Four other soldiers hit by the blast were seriously injured.
Keven Ellis got to know the Baker family after the accident through an organization that provides support to military families.
He said he was worried about Janet Baker.
"I would say this woman has suffered the pain of five lifetimes," Ellis said.
"She would go to his grave every day for two or three hours. She has continued to do that to this day."
The morning session of the court martial continued into the afternoon Monday so that Baker's mother could finish testifying and return home to Ontario to visit her son again.
Baker's stepsister was also in tears.
"I just miss him," said Heather Middleton, who became Baker's stepsister when he was just 10.
She said attending the ramp ceremony at CFB Trenton was devastating to the family.
"We saw the casket come off the plane. I had trouble standing and my daughter beside me was just so heartbroken," she said.
"It was just the worst thing. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was just unbearable and so unbelievable."
Master Bombardier Daniel Scott, who was one of the wounded in the accident, said he has a 25-centimetre scar on his chest to remind him of what happened.
"I was pretty lucky. It was unlucky to be hit, but the best thing is to be able to carry on. It was a series of unfortunate events," Scott said.
"I know the impact on (Baker's) family. It wasn't a combat death and I guess it was just a sad thing to happen."
The prosecution had argued that Watts, who was the platoon commander, turned a blind eye to safety standards and abdicated his duty as leader when he handed over responsibility to his second-in-command, Warrant Officer Paul Ravensdale, who was an expert on the weapon.
The day of the accident, the range was divided into four training sections. The first two tests of the anti-personnel mine went off without a hitch. But when the second firing occurred, the ball bearings fired backward, hitting Baker and the others.
Videos show several soldiers, including Watts, standing around watching the test. They are not inside armoured vehicles or standing behind them for cover, as set out in Canadian Forces safety guidelines.
Lt.-Col. Michael Prendergast was Baker's commanding officer in Edmonton at the Loyal Edmonton Regiment.
He said the death hurt morale among members of the platoon back in Edmonton.
Prendergast said it was wartime and, although accidents do happen, this one shouldn't have.
"This one ... Cpl. Baker ... it just seemed quite frankly senseless and useless," he said.
"Rules were either bent or broken and when I say rules, I mean safety rules."
The maximum sentence for unlawfully causing bodily harm is up to 10 years behind bars. Negligent performance of duty can bring dismissal with disgrace from the Canadian Forces. Watts could also face a reduction in rank and a severe reprimand.
Also on HuffPost


text: Written by Mariam Touba, N-YHS Reference Librarian Even as we are told that newspapers are a dying medium, each of us can remember their banner headlines announcing momentous events. Such headlines, however, did not always come with newspapers. How then did early newspapers alert their readers to important occurrences? The answer is, "very subtly," at…Read More


text:
Politics & Government
White House to announce $14 billion in new deals with Africa
President Barack Obama today will announce more than $14 billion in investments in Africa by U.S. companies as the administration seeks to bolster trade ties with the rapidly growing continent that is already being courted by China.
Obama will deliver remarks at the U.S.-Africa Leaders Summit, the first of its kind and the largest event any U.S. president has held with African heads of state and government. China and Japan have held similar events for years.
The White House says the businesses include construction, clean energy, banking, and information technology.
"These investments will deepen U.S. economic engagement in Africa, fueling growth that will support broader African prosperity and emerging markets for US businesses, which will support jobs in both the United States and Africa," a White House official said.
Obama's remarks will come at a U.S.–Africa Business Forum, hosted by the Department of Commerce and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Obama will also participate in a discussion with CEOs and government leaders at the forum. He and first lady Michelle Obama will host the leaders at a White House dinner tonight. Singer Lionel Richie will perform.
Former New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who founded Bloomberg Philanthropies, opened the business event Tuesday, calling Africa "today's biggest market opportunity." He noted the continent boasts six of the world's 10 fastest growing countries and a rapidly expanding consumer class.
"Africa is no longer emerging, it is here now," Bloomberg said.
Other nations are already deeply engaged on the continent, Bloomberg said, adding "I realize we have some catching up to do. We have let Europe and China go faster than the U.S."
He suggested there remained a "disconnect" in the United States over the perception of Africa, versus the reality.
But he warned, that "countries and companies that ignore Africa do so at their own peril."
Former President Bill Clinton, who moderated a morning session on business in Africa, said the U.S. is playing catch up.
"It strikes me we're missing the boat," Clinton said.
General Electric chairman Jeff Immelt, chairman of General Electric, said the U.S. "conceded" African business "to the Europeans first, to the Chinese later."
But, he said that given the continuing growth on the continent, "today it's wide open for us."
He warned against Republican opposition to shuttering the Export-Import Bank, saying it would harm U.S. companies interested in working in Africa.
"The fact that we have to sit here and argue for it is just wrong," Immelt said.


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Cadillac DeVille Electrical/Lighting
h2h Posts: 3I had the same thing, plus check engine lights. I replace the battery and all was corrected. I got the battery from Walmart for 75.00 and they installed it, but I had to remove back seat 1st. Change the battery... hope this works for you.0
searimd Posts: 1my headlights stay on all the time, the only way it will go off is by pulling the fuse. Also the enterior light dont work at all. What is the cause of this?0
bjssteffes Posts: 1I am having a hesitation problem with my 1994 deville concourse. This doesn't occur every time that i accelerate, however, 2 out of 4 times it does. I Just had the motor manufactured and I am still having the same problems. The alternator has also been replaced. I am starting to wonder if this is an electrical problem. If anyone has any advice on what the hell i need to do I would greatly appreciate it.0
I changed the ign control module, spark plug and wires and the camshaft sensor that is under the distributor cap and it still hesitates and even stalls. I also changed the fuel filter.
I am stumped. Any other suggestions out there? Please help.0
I had the heater coming on for no reason and would not shut off even after turning off the engine. It was a bad Body Control Module. I found one at the local salvage yard for 30 dollars. It has not done that since. You must take the chip out of the old BCM and put it into the one you are going to install. The chip is unique to just your car.
The same with an ECM, you must put in the chip from the old one into the new one. Good luck.0
Hi All!
I have a 1998 Cadillac Deville, base model, and the cluster lights just went out on it. Just the center section where the fuel gauge, speedo, coolant temp, and all that stuff in the middle is at. The lighted panels on either side works fine. I checked the cluster fuse in the trunk and it appeared to be fine.
I tapped the dash a few times, figuring it would jog something, nothing happened.
I took someone to the bus stop and when they got out and shut the pass. door it seemed to try and light for and instant.
Do I need to replace the cluster or is there something else that may be the problem somewhere. Also are those things, clusters, hard to take out0
fborgxx Posts: 1how do I reprogram my key which has a chip in it and reset the security system. My 1999 cadillac deville had given me a couple of dash warnings that my theft system problem car may not restart0
I have the same problem on my 2000 dts. Hve you been able to solve this dilema.0
My brake lights work properly when the headlights are off. All three of them come on, and no bulbs are out.
With the headlights on:
When I turn my headlights on, the third brakelight (above the license plate) does not work. The license plate lights are extremely dim, not really illuminating the license plate at all. The light-up pattern of the taillights is different also. The entire taillight is lit, except for the lower inside quarter of each taillight (not applying the brakes). When braking, they light up properly, and they blink properly with the blinker on. If I disconnect the third brakelight, the normal taillight pattern comes back (a thin stripe on the outside edge of each taillight), but all other problems remain.
The trunk courtesy light is always dim. When it is removed, the license plate lights go off. The license plate lights also go off when the trunk release is disconnected.0
pricelessjojo Posts: 1Hi, do u remembered what rhe other things were when u had them replaced? I may have the same exact problems. The hubby changed the Alternator, I went and replaced it again because it wasn't charging the battery, everyday I had to jump start the Cadillac. Its a 97 Deville that has been kicking my butt since we move from Orlando, FL to New JErsey. The car dash board computer has the service engine soon light on, it also reads, limited to 90mph and when I try to give more gas, it will not go over 20mph and there's a popping sound when I hit on the gas to go faster, which it isn't going any faster. Im sick and tired of the car, and the husband refused to dump it. Battery is dead, my front tires are losing air, I have to spray inside the Hood to get it to start when I'm getting a jump. It will not start on winter, summer, no seasons at all. What can you suggest?0
Had the same problem, checked the internet. The solution is there. Built a bypass resister chain to match the resistance in the key chip, hooked in on the steering column wires under the dash and cut the key out of the loop. Car would not even start before, now starts fine and doesn't need security key. Cheaper than replacing the ignition switch and I could care less if the security system works. There's another way to bypass the security module if need be. Cost me $5 for the string of resisters you can buy at Radio Shack.0
I had a similar problem on a 90 Seville. Checked out the wiring harness in the trunk area, found no problems. Replaced the tailight bulbs with new ones and the problem went away and never came back. Worth a try and cheap! I figure, I don't care if they whack the problem with a magic stick as long as it fixes the problem.0
nitared Posts: 1hello all i just purchased a 2000 deville from an auction and the front left headlight is dim i have changed the top and bottom bulb and it is still dim, i don't know what the problem is the right side is strong and bright but the left side looks as if its going out, can someone tell me what may be the issue or what i need to do, also where can i find a radiator overflow tank?> thank you for your help0
2001dts Posts: 6explain the vin codes, I was told mines was a "9"0
bigkahoona Posts: 1All my interior lights, door and compartment stopped working suddenly. Is this a fuse, relay, or circuit breaker issue? 2004 Deville0
It's probably a 'short to ground' problem, that then blew a fuse.0
Yes I have a 2002 DeVille and I have the same problem the rear door and the windows do not work from either place. In the manual it does say there is a fuse for this but It does not seem to be the problem. If anyone has a solution let me know as well.
I have a 2002 and it happened to me and my mechanic found out that the relay for the accelerator wire is too short and the gas pedal cable sometimes push this connection and it makes the car stall. The cadillac dealer diagnostics for $78.00 did show the part and the problem. So go and get this done they should tell you what it is. if no help I will try to fing the part number and you can ask them to look at that area.
Good luck,
alimo130 Posts: 1To " Recorder"I can only tell you that I also had the same problem which turned out to be in the wiring that goes from the door to the B pillar, seems that the wiring gets stretched and then either almost breaks or completly breaks, hence sometimes the windows will work with the door shut ( not fully broken wire ) or will cease to work altogether ( fully broken wire ) as a note, one side on mine broke within the rubber covering between the door and pillar and the other side actually broke inside the door pillar ( which was harder to repair). In your case I suggest that you look either side of the rubber cover and if its not failed there then splice the cover to see if it has broken inside.
Hope you find that its the problem.0
temj12 Posts: 450I purchased this car recently as a used car. It was driven by an older guy who took good care of it. The problem that I am having is oil consumption. I have only driven the car 1000 miles since I got it. It had 65,000 when I bought it. Is this common with the Northstar engine of that generation? If so, what causes it?0
Carboned up, stuck rings from people 'taking care' of it. The Northstar needs to be driven aggressively occasionally to not have and/or cure this problem. Stuck rings will cause massive (a quart every 600 miles) oil consumption. And, just driving it fast (70mph on the freeway) will not cure it, and will not keep it from carboning up.
Take the car out on a highway with light traffic. You don't have to be stopped, a rolling start at 5-10 mph is fine - then floor it (keep it floored, make it shift at redline) thru two upshifts - you will probably be going 80+mph at this time, so a ticket is your problem, don't complain to me. Then let the car 'coast' back down to 10 mph, and do it again. Do this 4 or 5 times and you will probably break a lot of the carbon out. And reduce the oil consumption by a lot.
I had a 95 Concours with the Northstar and it suddenly was taking a quart in 600 miles. And it developed a 'carbon knock' which sounds exactly a stuck lifter. A carbon knock is when the carbon in the piston get high enough to actually strike the head (or a valve) at the top of its motion. A few of these Wide Open Throttle (WOT) runs took it back up to about a quart in 2500 miles and the carbon knock went away.
Cadillac has a service procedure for this problem. It involves removing all the plugs and pouring in a solvent and letting it sit for 2/3 hours. Then sucking it out with a special tool. Then they take it out and run it aggressively, and then give it an oil change. I don't know what they charge for this, but it will not be cheap.
I know this sounds like a 'shade tree mechanic' fix, but it works. And it shouldn't hurt the car. If you break something, it was about to break anyway.
The Northstar was designed as a 'sport car motor', and puttering around in one, using premium gas which is actually harder to ignite than regular, will carbon up the motor badly.0
boliva thanks will look at the door boot.0
plzngod Posts: 1Just purchased a 1992 Deville. Both brake lights came on, then the check engine light. Called the dealer and they said it was nothing to worry about. A week later the car stalled and I had to coast to a stop. When I turn the key the engine ignites but will not stay on. Ended up being towed home. Does anyone know what the problem could be?0
sqiii Posts: 1Did anyone ever come up with a solution to this problem. I have the exact thing going on with my 2002 Deville. In addition, my traction control light is on.0
amkdevile Posts: 19I have a 2005 DeVille. I had my traction control light come on several months ago. I could not turn it off manually with the button. At first I thought there was something wrong with the traction control. Took it in to dealer. There was a short in a wire that goes to the truck for the third brake light. I guess opening and shutting the truck will eventually pinch the wire. Hope this helps some.0
I have a 2002 DeVille and had similar problem, it was the harness connection which sits in the engine compartment. I will look for the name of the part but according to GM the wiring to this part was too short and sometimes it pulls slightly and the connection does not make full contact and it gives off false reading and it stalls the engine
I will get back to you .0
mjanus Posts: 2
I Have a 1995 Deville. My dash lights suddenly went off. car will run, but roughly. also the blower motor comes on and blows air harder than it ever has. I have no control over anything on my dash. can anyone help?0
Mr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
First thing to check when many items go haywire at once on a modern car is the battery and charging system. A drop in voltage will cause all kinds of disruption, bad connections at the battery cables, corrosion in electrical connectors, etc.0
imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,719
@mjanus said:
..., but roughly. also the blower motor comes on and blows air harder than it ever has. I have no control over anything on my dash. can anyone help?
I'd start with grounds. If the battery is under the hood, check for corrosion on both ground and positive connections. Be sure you've turned the HVAC controls to off before turning your key OFF. If your car has multiple positive connectors check between them for corrosions. Check any small wires for ground running to fenders from the battery. Clean the connection area on those at the fender.
I do not know if the wiring setup in your car is similar to the Park Avenue/lesabre 92-95, but it may have ground busses under the doorsill like Park Avenues and other H-bodies had until Park Avenue changed--was that in 96? These ground bars are under the plastic of the door sill bottom and the carpet. Water from shoes and rain corrode them.
I think of those grounds, or a ground under the dash, because the HVAC system should default to defrost, the AC compressor and radiator cooling fans came on at high speed, and the HIGH blower motor for safety in case of electrical problems. That's what my 93 leSabre did occasionally before I traded it in. And the power door locks would not work. I knew it was the ground bar but never got around to fixing it.
Do some reading and searching in Cadillac repair-oriented forums for that kind of problem.
2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT0


text: Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums :: View topic - U.F.O Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!" FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in U.F.O Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> The Strange and Mysterious View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message ela2004Joined: 11 Jul 2004Posts: 303 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: U.F.O I going to tell one strange story. It was at night and I was standing on the balcony in my home in Russia.Then I was lite up my cigarettes and then I saw U.F.O. It was like a ellipse and on the top of something was plenty of lights. Unfortunately it was too fast and one minute later U.F.O was disappear.After that accident I was very happy, but when I was tell somebody about that nobody trust me. by SASHA Back to top A,IJoined: 20 Oct 2004Posts: 11 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: Hi! I'm A,I. I have also seen UFO. I was very much surprised. I believe you. Back to top reiJoined: 20 Oct 2004Posts: 6 Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: Hello! Did you see UFO really!? Although I have not seen UFO until now, I want to see it. Therefore, I believe your talk. You who were able to see UFO are enviable. Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> The Strange and Mysterious All times are GMT - 8 Hours Page 1 of 1 Jump to: Select a forum Student Forums----------------ComputersCurrent NewsCultureEnglish SchoolsFamilyFilm and CinemaFoodHealth and FitnessHelp CenterHobbiesHolidaysLearning EnglishLiteratureMaking FriendsMusicOpinionsPetsScienceSportsThe Strange and MysteriousTOEFL and Other English ExamsTravel You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forum Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group