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Thursday, July 10, 2014
Are The Rank-Amateurs With Their Hooks In Knox Dividing Into Two Flocks Of Sheep?
Posted by Peter Quennell
Confusion Increasingly On Display
Publicly berating the Sollecitos, Kerchers, Italy and Europe has had a detrimental effect on Knox's public persona?
So says Sophie in the forum text above. Smart take. But Clive Wismayer himself has posted some pretty wild accusations against Italian officials which absolutely dont help Knox at all. People like him should go.
Click here for more of those postings by those supposedly helping Knox. (Guede did it alone? Really?) The postings are a month old, but we hear the internal disputes are now way worse. Three obvious problems stand out.
1. The Sollecito Headache
They dont know as a group whether to try to hug Raffaele Sollecito and his family closer, or to nuke them, in the FOA's usual mode. Some now incline one way, some the other, and it is splitting them apart.
The Sollecito backlash almost certainly isnt done yet. They dont like Knox at all, and further talk of resisting extradition and further demonizing of Italy and justice officials hardly helps them, and will see them back in front of the press.
In no circumstances will Bongiorno ever again let Sollecito get attracted back to the people who have their hooks in Knox - Bongiorno took the harder line at the press conference, and burying the very damaging claims stuffed by the Knox people into Sollecito's book is sure on her radar now.
2. The Bloodmoney Headache
There's rarely much money to be made legally out of trashing murder victims and their families and justice officials as the Bruce Fischers have set out to do. Amanda Knox did get a windfall payment out of her hapless book - but is THAT turning into a two-edged sword…
There's nothing like a huge pot of money unfairly distributed to make people who feel used and unrewarded walk off. So says Clive Wismayer in the text. Knox is clearly acting cheap, maybe because she sees no career ahead, and may have squirreled much of her bloodmoney away for the reasons given here.
Some like Ted Simon seem to have had a very big payday, the lawyers and experts and Marriott and travel and hotels have all had to be paid-for. Media sources tell us that none of their reporters get within miles of Sollecito or Knox without a greedy hand coming out.
And Knox still has to pay the damages awarded to Patrick for maliciously wrecking his life, or risk more time inside.
Knox is to be charged for the false claims in her book on the same lines as Sollecito and the damages awarded could be huge. Knox's publishers have their own liability, but may have been misled, and if they are made to pay damages, they could set their lawyers on Knox.
3. The False-Labels Headache
That "guilters" smear used freely in the text above is an albatross around their necks. It stops them seeing straight and being fully informed and (especially) trying to convince in reasonable terms.
Competent American lawyers and PR would have stopped Knox supporters painting themselves into such a corner long ago on the grounds that it just doesnt work. They dont know their enemy as a result.
What they are really up against is not only people posting translations and analyses on websites (people much more qualified than themselves) but also all the forces of justice in Italy and 90 percent of the population who clearly can see guilt.
The pro-Knox conspiracists are in fact a very small faction. The in-group at the core is a dozen or two at most. Perhaps a few hundred now who might lift a finger for Knox.
In contrast, those who see a case for guilt - and who revere the victim and Italy and its officials and system - are not a mere faction at all. Between them, they are huge. Good smart reasonable people who are very well informed and are certainly not driven by hate.
A lot of what websites like this do, in a media-created vacuum of hard facts, is to simply pass on reliable information from Italy in competent translations of key documents and timely and comprehensive reports.
This "guilters" smear has blinded them to that, and so "garbage-in-garbage-out" and paranoid suspicions and ranting language have become their plagues.
And with no real help, Knox faces 28-plus years.
Archived in The former defendants, Amanda Knox, Officially involved, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, More sockpuppets, The many hoaxes, Italian justice hoax, No-evidence hoax, The Dr Mignini hoax
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Sunday, July 06, 2014
Spitting In the Wind: Sollecito News Conference Backfires On Him AND Knox - What The Media Missed
Posted by SomeAlibi
Raffaele looks for divine inspiration? Precious little showing at press conference on Tuesday
What on earth were they thinking?
At Tuesday morning's press conference Raffaele Sollecito's team did at least two completely inexplicable things.
Firstly, they scored a spectacular own-goal on the facts surrounding the murder of Meredith Kercher, which has been missed by the press.
Secondly, they did it all for no legal benefit.
In the run up to the press conference it was widely trailed that Sollecito would throw Amanda under the bus by removing her alibi - that she spent the whole of the night of the 1st of November with him at his apartment. After the press conference, it was widely reported he'd done that very thing.
Wrong. Very wrong. In fact, Team Sollecito did the opposite and put a position forward entirely consistent with how the prosecution says Knox, Sollecito and Guede all come together.
Speaking in tongues
There are only a few grains of sand left in the hourglass before Cassation and confirmation of the sentence, which will see Sollecito return to jail until he is well into his forties. You would have thought that it would be "absurd" for him to do anything other than speak clearly and unequivocally.
But that is precisely what didn't happen…
Sollecito and lead counsel Giulia Bongiorno performed a bizarre tip-toe dance, avoiding saying anything clear or direct. Instead, they made points by reference and allusion, with an unhealthy assortment of metaphorical nods, winks, heavy coughs and adjustments of the lapels at key points.
Did Raffaele say that Amanda left his apartment in the early evening? No. As Bongiorno tortuously phrased it: "Raffaele takes note of the fact the court of appeal found there was something of a lie over Amanda's whereabouts… of the fact the court [says] she was not with him in the early evening".
Takes note? What on earth was that all about? Well, the sentence mangling was because at the final Cassation hearing next year, no fresh facts can be heard. The only arguments that can be heard are on failure of due process or failure of logic and reasoning as pmf.org Italian legal expert Popper explains extremely clearly here:
I think we should clarify a number of points after discussions of past few days:
1) Corte di Cassazione does not hear evidence and can only discuss the possible invalidation of a sentence or part of it ref the points appealed, not other points. Corte di Cassazione does not hear defendants or private parties. In public hearings only a specific category of lawyers (Cassazionisti) can speak before them
2) Corte di Cassazione therefore cannot take into account evidence now given spontaneously by the defendant RS directed against AK (eg open door of Filomena) as in Court he has never accepted cross-interrogation of AK's lawyers, except if on some points RS' lawyers appealed in writing for manifest illogicality of reasoning but what he says now cannot be used. Keep in mind Cassazione cannot discuss the merit of the judgement of Nencini and Massei, only invalidate it if this judgement and reasoning were based on clearly illogical arguments or neglected key evidence
3) Only if Cassazione invalidated Nencini and remanded to a further appeal a possible renovation of "istruttoria" (evidence discussion) may take place. Otherwise all RS has to say now, even if he confesses she did it and he only helped clean [unlikely IMHO], cannot be taken into account by Corte di Cassazione and would have to be the possible argument for a "revisione del giudicato" (a case in which, after a final judgement, a convicted person claims there is a clear error and brings solid evidence to prove it, it is quite rare only in case of obvious errors. Procedure can be easily denied and IMHO will be denied if he said he just helped clean as Courts have already considered that scenario and rejected it)
4) any discussion on cocaine was not taken into account to convict (even if true, no evidence they sniffed that night) and will not be taken into account by Corte di Cassazione, in theory will not be taken into account for extradition hearing in US Court as this only verifies there is a conviction and treaty respected. PR is another matter, but I think it is not correct to say that would be added to extradition request and may change legal course. Same goes for garage video.
5) The press conference of RS was useless, the panel of Corte di Cassazione judges has not even been appointed and, while not illegal, it is completely unusual for a defendant to hold a PC talking about an appeal (RS is not a public figure or administrator). What counts is the appeal document that we have read. The "great" point that AK does not talk about RS in memoriale is too stupid for me to discuss it here. We must conclude this was only publicity for Bongiorno, she knows she is likely to lose and wishes to make it seem it is a close call. She has minimal chances, approximating 0%.
6) RS has very low chances to succeed, and LG for AK even less, as Corte di Cassazione explained well what they wanted and Nencini gave it to them. Court presided by AN explained who the people concurring with RG in the murder are and gave clear logical explanation for such conclusion. Also, Nencini confirmed first instance, a trial that was perfectly valid for Cassazione after first appeal was invalidated.
There have been cases of a double iteration at Cassazione eg in very complex terrorism trials, evidence was scarce mostly based on witnesses who wanted to sidetrack other investigations. Here, as Alan Dershowitz said [he does not know much about case but this and a few other points he got absolutely right] all pieces of evidence point exactly in the same direction creating a good case [AD does not know it is overwhelming; maybe he did not read all docs].
One other thing AD said, most FOA and JREF and IIP tend to forget: Court is the judge, not them, Court has the responsibility to evaluate all evidence and issue a judgement that, as long as explained logically and legally in writing [something a US jury would not be required to do] using all available elements, will stand and be final after Cassazione.
So, Team Sollecito needed to phrase all of their "points" as things already said by the Appeal Court, which are now facts in law unless overturned due to failure of logic etc.
From there they must then try and make insinuations about these 'facts', all the while dressing it up as if it were procedurally in accordance with the pre-Cassation phase. Even though … and here one should be allowed a Pepto Bismol given all the twisting and turning… as Popper explains, it will have no effect on the outcome whatsoever.
In the real world, it was quite clear that what Sollecito was actually saying was, "Yes, she did go out in the early part of the evening, even though I'm not personally saying it, those are the Court's words."
He left a massive hanging dot dot dot in place of: 'Hey everyone - Amanda went off and performed the murder with Guede, not me! No, I haven't stated the time of her return, because it's not me talking, it's the court, but she was out, so figure it out for yourselves…'
Not with him in the early evening, which is not the night, we are told, that begins around 11:00 pm
The light at the end of the tunnel has steam billowing underneath it
Here, Team Sollecito run into a horrendous brick-wall of facts which lays Raffaele and Knox out cold. It's not hard to work it through, but the world's weary press are too fatigued by this case to even do some simple "if-then" calculations and draw the appropriate conclusion.
So, let's do it for them here…
- Team Sollecito are saying Knox went out before she sent her SMS reply to boss Patrick Lumumba at 8.35pm. This is in accordance with the case for the prosecution from day dot. They now agree, as the prosecution have always said, that Knox is out of Sollecito's flat sometime before 8.35pm. (In fact, we know it's by at least 8.17pm because this is when she received Lumumba's text to say that she didn't need to go into work).
- Team Sollecito then pause and wink to let you do the math(s). If the murder occurred circa 9.30pm by their estimate (which it didn't, but let's go with this for a second) and you don't know when she returned to Sollecito's for the night, then he couldn't have done it, because he was at home, but she could.
Here, the Press stop and report Amanda is under the bus. Thank heavens for that, not a stain on Raffaele's Warren Beatty white suit and can we all go home now?
Wrong. In fact, it's a horrendous own-goal, which ricochets in hard off the testimony of both independent witness Jovana Popovic and Raffaele's own father Francesco.
- At 8.40pm, Popovic arrives at the front door of Raffaele's apartment and testifies that Amanda Knox opens the front door. It has been suggested that Popovic's self-estimated timing of 8.40pm is wrong, but this rings very hollow indeed. Popovic had done the walk from her late class ending at 8.20pm many times, and knew it took 20 minutes because she lived on the same road – Corso Garibaldi – as Raffaele himself. Both Massei and Nencini agreed with this too. Ouch.
- So Knox, who was out previously, is already back, at least 50 minutes before even the putative time of murder put by the defence and a couple of hours plus before the real time.
- In fact, Raffaele's father Francesco testified to the Massei court that he was certain that Amanda was with his son when he spoke to him at 8.52pm that night. And this was not contested by the defence. Double ouch.
So, even if Knox went out in the early evening, she is objectively shown to have been back at the apartment well before 9pm. And, if that is the case, both Knox and Sollecito are 100% back in the frame. And this is even before they are also seen by a third person who corroborates that they were together that night – Antonio Curatolo. Triple ouch.
Confirming how three became company
Worse yet, Knox has argued for 7 years that she never left the apartment. If Sollecito now "says" she did, but we know objectively that she is back at least by 8.40pm, it supports the prosecution case.
This was that Knox left for work and walked to near the cottage, in the area of the basketball court at Piazza Grimana, around where she received the text from Patrick saying not to come to work.
This is the exact time that Rudy Guede was having a kebab, only a couple of hundred yards away. This provides the opportunity for Knox and Guede to have seen each other. Knox, suddenly at a loose end, makes a plan, which involves asking for Guede's help.
What might that help be? Well, the resurfacing story of Knox's link with a cocaine dealer chimes nicely with the idea that Knox asked Rudy either to supply her or help her get some sort of drugs and that they arranged to meet back up once he had secured them.
Knox then returns to Raffaele's to fetch him, is seen by Popovic and her presence acknowledged at 8.52pm by Papa Sollecito and son, before they both head out to connect with Guede back at Piazza Grimana. (Remember, this is where Knox "saw" Patrick Lumumba, when she tried to frame him).
Guede, as was his wont, managed to get himself invited back to the cottage, perhaps for a shared line. This is consistent with Knox's prison piece "The Story of Marie Pace", where there are at least two++ men present in a kitchen in a "party" type atmosphere taking drugs which ends up with a hospitalised victim.
It's only one theory and there are others. However, what Team Sollecito managed to do this week was to confirm that Knox left the flat. Objective facts and witness testimony tell us the time by which she had returned.
And, in that round trip lies the entire timing, location and mechanism for how Guede became involved, which otherwise makes little sense. Now all confirmed by Team Sollecito…
One of Raffaele Sollecito's telling grimaces when Amanda Knox's name is mentioned
What silence gets you
So what was the point? Face-saving for Raffaele? Hoping to key up populist support? Fat chance in Italy, where the case has been properly reported.
An opportunity to allude to a "truth" (the best one he can think of for now – other truths are available) and say that he and his family believe Knox is innocent? Pull the other one Raffaele!
It is quite clear that several members of the Sollecito clan think that Knox absolutely is guilty and their Raffaele is still too "honourable" to tell the truth. He merely aided the clean-up perhaps. Well in that case, why hasn't he said exactly when she came back? Was it 11pm? 1am? Was it at 5am when the music starts playing. Why won't he or you say?
Or… was it face-saving for Bongiorno, as she faces defeat and seeks to protect her valued public persona? Well, as much as I've tried, I have no idea what they thought they were doing.
And to be honest with you, I honestly don't think they were entirely sure, nor did they think through the consequences of the brick wall objectivity of Popovic + Papa Sollecito.
In the meantime, a family sits in Surrey listening and watching the weasel words and once again is insulted by this "honourable" all-in-white character who knows what "Amanda Marie Knox" did that night, but simply will not say.
Which of course he could choose to do at any moment, court proceedings or not, the way us normal human beings do it: not making allusion, not tipping a wink, but speaking the truth.
But he hasn't and I suspect he won't, even though it actually would now be the only thing that could mitigate the length of his inevitable prison term.
And for his acts and that silence he still won't break - and at least here it is possible to finally speak with certainty - I believe he deserves every one of those 25 years.
Archived in Italian justice v others, Officially involved, Public evidence, Sollecito's alibis, Appeals 2009-2015, Cassation appeal 1, Diversion efforts, The Sollecitos, Reporting on the case, Media news, The wider contexts, Italian context, Raff Sollecito
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Friday, July 04, 2014
The Status Of The Various Computers In The Case And Whether Anything Nefarious Happened To Them
Posted by Sallyoo
Trial court 2009 on one of several days computer and internet activity was testified to
1. Computer use as high-stakes evidence
There have been many arguments about computers during the case.
They began at the very beginning, and there is even now, in the final appeal by Sollecito to the Court of Cassazione, one remaining somewhat fantastical theory.
The facts surrounding the computer evidence collected by the prosecution have been obfuscated and contradicted by the defence using exactly the same techniques as have been used about the DNA and other forensic evidence in the case.
Blind the court (and the public) with hypotheses which very few people can follow, and use this ignorance to spread confusion and doubt.
Let's try to shed some light.
2. Five key computers, plus
We know that Sollecito is pretty familiar with computers, he had two at the time, a MacBook and an Asus [1], both portables.[2] His apartment had a decent broadband connection, supplied, (using the Telecom Italia infrastructure) by Fastweb.
We know that both of these computers were sequestered from his apartment on the morning of Nov 6 2007, when Sollecito accompanied a squad of policemen despatched to search his apartment.
We know that the police removed, (on Nov 7), from the house in Via Della Pergola (where there was no telephone nor broadband service) a MacBook belonging to Meredith, a Toshiba belonging to Knox, and a portable computer belonging to Laura Mezzetti.
The police also took an HP portable from Lumumba's apartment.
There is even another computer which the police already had possession of, and that is a Sony portable belonging to Filomena Romanelli. This computer Filomena herself had taken away from her bedroom shortly after the discovery of the murder, and which the questura, in the evening of Nov 2, required her to hand over to them because it formed part of the 'crime scene'.
3. The police HD analysis begins
On Nov 13 a postal police technician (Marco Trotta) received a box containing five computers (two from Sollecito, Knox, Meredith and Lumumba).
On Nov 15, in the presence of Formenti, (a consultant nominated by the defence) Trotta took them apart (removed the hard disks) and attempted to make copies of the data recorded on them.
This is the point at which it is alleged the destruction of three hard disks occurred.
It is difficult to believe that this is the case. Not only because the equipment used had never before (or since) managed to trash a hard disk (and it had no problems with Lumumba's disk) but also because of the state of Filomena's computer, which never got anywhere near Trotta.
All of the computers had of course been in the hands of the squadra mobile for some days before being consigned to Trotta, allowing for the possibility of some earlier interference by some malfeasant policeman.
This isn't likely, not only because Trotta insists that the computers were complete and superficially undamaged, and the hard disks factory sealed when he dismantled the computers, but also because of Filomena's computer.
4. Filomena's Sony machine
It is now time to go a little deeper into the history of Filomena's Sony.
This was a fairly new machine, which she kept in a substantial computer carrying case. It was working perfectly on Oct 30 when she last used it. She had left it in her bedroom, the case standing upright beside her bed, when she went off to spend the brief holiday with her boyfriend.
She found it, still in the carrying case, lying flat in a pile of stuff under the broken window of her disturbed bedroom. [3]
The defence commissioned a Computer Expert Report, entered during the Massei trial, which talked about the reason for the data being irrecoverable on the three computers' disks.
Their conclusion was that the electronic circuitry controlling the hard disks had, in all three cases, suffered damage, most probably due to an electrical overtension. The circuitry had been 'fried'.
They were unable to be certain how or when this might have occurred, or to opine on whether it was deliberate.
Filomena, in the presence of Gregori, (another communications police officer), at the Questura on the evening of Nov 2 attempted to turn on her Sony. It wouldn't work. The hard disk would not respond properly.
When she got it back on Dec 18 and gave it to a private computer technician, he said the control circuitry on the hard disk is 'fried'. Exactly the same fault as had occurred on the other three, which we are expected by th defense to believe was either a deliberate piece of police sabotage, or proof of police incompetence.
5. The Sollecito computers
The important computers, of course, are those owned by Sollecito because he is, even now, still trying to force an alibi out of them.
The MacBook has been accurately interrogated to death, most particularly by a defence expert named Antonio d'Ambrosio who gave very clear testimony at Massei on 26 Sept 2009.
He was even generous enough to acknowledge that the investigations carried out by the postal police were correct, and well interpreted, and that he was able to uncover a little more information simply because he wasn't limited by forensic protocols (and could therefore reveal information not visible to the Encase software used by the police) when he examined a copy of the cloned disk from the Mac.
Basically the only 'news' in this interesting testimony was an interaction with the Apple website at 00.58 on Nov 2, which he did consider a human interaction with the computer.
6. Activity on the Internet
Sollecito maintains he spent the whole evening and night in his flat. At first his story was that he was sending e-mails and surfing the web. This was quickly demolished by reference to the IP log supplied by Fastweb, the broadband supplier.
It's necessary to get slightly technical here.
Most of what we call The Internet, and certainly everything which is called The Worldwide Web, including e-mail clients, subscribe to a protocol which (in shorthand) means everything is a Port 80 request.
The individual computer, via its router, contacts the ISP (Fastweb, in this case) and identifies itself by means of a unique IP address. The ISP then directs the communication to the IP of the website requested.
This is all recorded on the Fastweb network. It is certain that no Port 80 requests were made from Sollecito's apartment (whichever computer he may have been using) between 18.00 on Nov 1 and 00.58 on Nov 2.
There are parts of the international communications network which don't use Port 80 protocols. The most 'innocent' of these are Peer to Peer (P2P) networks – in widespread use for distributing and downloading music and video files.
Sollecito certainly availed himself of these services, using a program called Amule on his Mac. He had a folder containing downloaded files, which was accessible to the program, and thus also accessible to anyone in the world who wanted a copy of something which Sollecito had in this shareable folder on his computer.
If he wished to save the file for posterity, he would move or copy it from this accessible folder into his own archive.
Video files are large, and they take a long time to download. Clearly, to download a file, or to make your publicly accessible folder available, the computer has to be turned on and connected to a router.
If you use these file sharing services extensively, it implies that you keep your computer turned on and connected all the time. It seems likely that this was Sollecito's habit.
Clearly, you need to automate this sort of transfer – often a large file will be accessed in part from one remote computer, and another part will be located on another remote computer – so you simply instruct Amule to get you a film, or a list of films, and you can walk away from the computer.
Even D'Ambrosio is unable to be certain that a human interaction occurred at 21.26 on Nov 1, or whether a pre-requested download of Naruto commenced.
However, no IP addresses are exchanged when connecting to a P2P network, and so it is impossible (from ISP records) to trace any traffic.
It is possible though, from the hard disk, to discover what has been downloaded and saved to a computer on a P2P network, and exactly when – but to distinguish an automated process from a user instigated one is not possible.
7. Computers and Hellmann appeal
Now we move onto the Hellmann appeal, where a report from this same consultant D'Ambrosio was accepted into the case files. I haven't been able to find this report, and Judge Hellman doesn't even refer to it in his sentencing report.
However, the gist of this D'Ambrosio report is included in the current ricorso (appeal) from Sollecito to the Court of Cassazione.
8. Computers and Cassation appeal
We hear a bit about screensaver behaviour, and quite a lot about post Nov 1 interactions overwriting earlier actions.
The major 'fresh' theory now depends on asserting (more than four times in the ricorso) that the postal police destroyed Sollecito's Asus, and that this action has meant that Sollecito's alibi cannot be proved.
The lack of any signs of interaction on the Mac can be explained (so we are informed) by the Mac and the Asus being networked together, using a file sharing utility named Samba, and if the (broken) Asus could have been accessed it might have shown that it had been controlling the Mac.
So the Mac would have been doing things at the command of its owner, but because the owner was interacting with the keyboard of the Asus rather than that of the Mac, these actions are undetectable on the Mac.
This is what we are now being asked to believe.
9. Conclusion and way forward
I think this is an accurate summary of the relevant parts of 'computer evidence' discussed, or deposited, during the hearings and in the ricorso. I look forward to any comments, clarifications, corrections, but above all, to any new theories about how and when the four hard disks got trashed.
From other sources there are an additional two hints at possible new or ignored evidence:
The BBC reported, on 14.03.2009, the following sentence. "A second computer belonging to Mr Sollecito also showed no activity but the suspect had himself admitted it had been broken before the crime was committed." [4]
And then we have Sollecito, in his prison diary of 11.11.2007, being rather more than aware that his computer is not going to be useful to him as an alibi.
I have been very anxious and nervous in the last few days, but to see my father who tells me "do not worry, we will get you out" makes me feel better. My real concerns are now two: the first one derives from the fact that, if that night Amanda remained with me all night long, we could have (and this is a very remote possibility) made love all evening and night only stopping to eat… it would be a real problem [casino] because there would be no connections from my computer to servers in those hours…
No connections in those hours? Hmmm.
10. My references
[1] This computer is sometimes referenced as an Acer. In Trotta's testimony (he is reading from notes) it is listed as an Asus, so I have used this name. There is only one computer whether it's an Asus or an Acer.
[2] There is a reference to a non portable computer in Sollecito's apartment (in the testimony of Popovic). This is the only mention of any non-portable (i.e. desktop or tower cased machine with separate monitor). Given the position from which Popovic saw the screen (on a desk, with Knox sitting in front of it) it seems likely that she was mistaken.
[3] Amanda Knox frequently refers to seeing Filomena's computer on her desk after the 'break in'. At one point in her testimony she changes her mind and corrects herself to change the computer to camera.
[4] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7943828.stm I have not found another source for this comment.
Archived in Officially involved, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, The computers, Trials 2008 & 2009, The Massei Report, Diversion efforts, Sollecito's book, The many hoaxes, Raff Sollecito
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Wednesday, July 02, 2014
A Mistake Or Lie By Bongiorno On The Location Where Knox Texted Doesnt Let RS Off The Hook
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
1. Bongiorno's Claim About Knox's Location
Giulia Bongiorno claimed yesterday that Amanda Knox texted Patrick while she was away from Sollecito's house.
Mobile-phone-tower records show that Knox's phone received Patrick's incoming text telling her not to come to work when she was already somewhere on the route to his bar in Via Alessi.
Knox apparently then turned around and went back to Sollecito's house, because mobile-phone-tower records show Knox texted back, responding to Patrick, from Sollecito's house in Corso Garibaldi at 8:35.
They both claim this in their books - Sollecito himself claims it too. Those books are pretty suspect throughout, but for once they both tell the same truth.
Some five minutes later, Knox and Ms Popovic met at Sollecito's house so Knox was still there then. That is still three to four hours away from the best estimate of Meredith's death.
So the time-period prior to 8:35 pm when Knox texted from Sollecito's flat was the only time-period when there is hard proof that Knox and Sollecito were ever apart that night. In her unforced statements on 5-6 November Knox did claim she went out alone to see Patrick, but we have only her word she was alone.
It seems Bongiorno made a serious mistake or lied - and Sollecito sat beside her happily nodding his okay.
2. The Narrative From Judge Massei's Report
− 20:18:12: Amanda receives the SMS sent to her by Patrick Lumumba, which let her off from having to go to work at the 'Le Chic' pub on the evening of 1 November. At the time of reception the phone connected to the cell on Via dell'Aquila 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto sector 3, whose signal does not reach Raffaele Sollecito's house. The young woman was therefore far [i.e. absent] from Corso Garibaldi 30 when the SMS reached her, as she was walking in an area which was shown to be served by the Via dell'Aquila 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto sector 3 cell. This point of her route could correspond to Via U. Rocchi, to Piazza Cavallotti, to Piazza IV Novembre, bearing in mind that Lumumba's pub is located in Via Alessi, and that Amanda Knox would have had to travel along the above-mentioned roads and the piazza in order to reach the pub
− 20.35.48 Amanda sent an SMS in reply to Patrick, at No. 338-7195723; the message was sent when the young woman's mobile phone was in Corso Garibaldi 30 or in the immediate neighbourhood. The cell used, in fact, was that of Via Berardi sector 7.
3. The Narrative From Judge Nencini's Report
At 20.18 and 12 seconds, Amanda Marie Knox received a text message sent to her by Patrick Lumumba, in which he informed her that it would not be necessary for her to go to the bar to carry out her usual work. At the time of receipt, Amanda Marie Knox's handset connected via the sector 3 mast at Torre dell'Acquedotto, 5 dell'Aquila, as shown by phone records entered in evidence. This mast cannot be reached from the vicinity of 130 Via Garibaldi, the home of Raffaele Sollecito. According to the findings of the judicial police entered in evidence, this mast could be reached by anyone in Via Rocchi, piazza Cavallotti or piazza 4 Novembre, all locations in Perugia which are intermediate between 130 Via Garibaldi, the home of Raffaele Sollecito, and Via Alessi, where the "Le Chic" bar is located.
From this set of facts established in the case, Amanda Marie Knox's claim, according to which she received Patrick Lumumba's text message while she was at 130 Via Garibaldi, appears false. Given the mast connected to and the time, it is reasonable to assume that, when Amanda received the message, she had already left Raffaele Sollecito's home and was on her way to the "Le Chic" bar. Presumably, she then turned around and went back.
Here, then, is the first crack in the account of the young woman who, in her narrative, claims never to have left the house at 130 Via Garibaldi from the moment of her entrance into the house in the afternoon of 1 November 2007, together with Raffaele Sollecito. There is oral evidence (the deposition of Popovic) and evidence obtained through phone records that, at around 18:00 on 1 November 2007, Amanda and Raffaele were at the home of the latter. Later, at precisely 20:35 and 48 seconds, when Amanda Marie Knox sent a text message to Patrick Lumumba, connecting to a mast serving 130 Via Garibaldi, both were once again [118]together at Raffaele Sollecito's home. This fact is confirmed by Popovic, who went there to cancel that evening's appointment with Raffaele. In fact, the witness reported that she had visited Raffaele's home at around 20:40 in the evening.
In essence, it can be established with certainty that Amanda and Raffaele were apart, albeit for a limited period of time, on the evening of 1 November 2007, contrary to what is stated repeatedly in multiple statements made by Amanda Marie Knox.
Archived in Officially involved, The defenses, Appeals 2009-2015, Cassation appeal 1, Diversion efforts, The Sollecitos, The wider contexts, Italian context, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito
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Amanda Knox Left Sollecito's House By Herself? Both Claimed It But Neither Of Their Books Back It Up
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
1. Current Contexts Of Sollecito's And Knox's Books
Neither book is exactly riddled with truths.
The claims throughout Sollecito's book are soon to be the subject of a trial in Florence and the claims throughout Knox's book are soon to be the subject of a trial in Bergamo. So both will need to endorse or reject what they wrote.
Plus Knox will need to endorse or reject this, from the first unforced statement she insisted on making without a lawyer on 6 November 2007. This is what Sollecito is gleefully using against her now.
Last Thursday, November 1, a day on which I normally work, while I was at the house of my boyfriend Raffaele, at around 8:30 pm, I received a message on my cellular phone from Patrik, who told me that the premises would remain closed that evening, because there were no customers, and thus I would not need to go to work.
I responded to the message by telling him that we would see each other at once; I then left the house, telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work. In view of the fact that during the afternoon I had smoked a joint, I felt confused, since I do not frequently make use of mind-altering substances, nor of heavier substances.
I met Patrik immediately afterward, at the basketball court on Piazza Grimana, and together we went [to my] home.
2. From Sollecito's Honor Bound (Simon & Schuster 2012)
Amanda and I smoked a joint before leaving the house on Via della Pergola, wandered into town for some shopping before remembering we had enough for dinner already, and headed back to my place. Shortly before six, a Serbian friend of mine named Jovana Popovic rang the doorbell and asked if I'd mind driving her to the bus station at midnight to pick up a suitcase her mother was sending. I said that would be fine. When she left, Amanda and I sat down at the computer to watch a favorite movie, Amélie.
We had to stop the film a few times as the evening wore on. First, Amanda got a text from Patrick telling her it was a slow night because of the holiday and he didn't need her to come in after all. It was like getting an unexpected snow day—we were thrilled. Amanda texted back: Certo ci vediamo più tardi buona serata! Sure. See you later. Have a good evening.
Then my father called. He and Mara had just seen the Will Smith movie The Pursuit of Happyness, and he told me how beautifully it portrayed the relationship between a father and his son. My father was always making phone calls like this. It was sweet that he wanted to share his experiences, but he also made everything he said sound vaguely like an order, as if laying out the parameters of how I should react to things before I'd had a chance to form my own opinion. But he never stayed on the line for long—he is too nervy and impatient—so I listened calmly and the call was over in less than four minutes.
In the meantime, Jovana dropped by again and told Amanda that I didn't need to drive her to the bus station after all. Now we didn't have to leave the apartment. The evening was ours, and we couldn't have been happier. We switched off our cell phones, finished watching Amélie, and discussed what to make for dinner…
When Amélie ended, I went into the kitchen to take care of some dishes left over from breakfast before we started making dinner. I soon realized that water was leaking out of the pipe under the sink, and I cursed under my breath. I'd had a plumber come and fix the sink just a week earlier, and he had made me buy all sorts of replacement parts that clearly were not put together properly. I suspected he had left them loose on purpose to force me to pay for another visit. As Amanda and I threw kitchen towels onto the puddle on the tile floor, I decided I was going to let my landlady deal with it from now on.
"Don't you have a mop?" Amanda asked. I did not. She offered to pick one up from Via della Pergola the next morning and bring it round.
We cooked a fish dinner, did our best to wash the dishes again, and tumbled gratefully into bed in each other's arms. Only later, when I lay in the dark, unable to sleep, did it dawn on me that Papà had broken his usual habit of calling to wish me good night.
It turned out he did so out of consideration. He had been about to pick up the phone when my stepmother talked him out of it. "Stop bothering him," Mara said, as they got ready for bed around eleven o'clock. "He's with Amanda, and they want to be alone. Why don't you send a text instead?"
My father took her advice, but because my cell phone was turned off, I didn't receive the message until six the next morning.
It was a desperately unlucky combination of circumstances. If my father had tried my cell and then called me on the home line—which he would have done, because he's persistent that way—I would have had incontrovertible proof from the phone records that I was home that night. And the nightmare that was about to engulf me might never have begun.
My father called my landline a little before nine thirty the next morning to make sure we would be ready for our day trip to Gubbio. I was too groggy to talk. I'd been up several times in the night—listening to music, answering e-mail, making love—and wanted only to go back to sleep. Amanda got out of bed and said she was going home to shower and change her clothes, so I walked her to the front door, gave her a kiss, and crawled back under the covers.
3. From Knox's Waiting To Be Heard (HarperCollins 2013)
Raffaele and I were good at being low-key together. We chilled out in the common room and smoked a joint while I played Beatles songs on the guitar for an hour or so. Sometime between 4 P.M. and 5 P.M., we left to go to his place. We wanted a quiet, cozy night in. As we walked along, I was telling Raffaele that Amélie was my all-time favorite movie.
"Really?" he asked. "I've never seen it."
"Oh my God," I said, unbelieving. "You have to see it right this second! You'll love it!"
Not long after we got back to Raffaele's, his doorbell rang. It was a friend of his whom I'd never met—a pretty, put-together medical student named Jovanna Popovic, who spoke Italian so quickly I couldn't understand her. She'd come to ask Raffaele for a favor. Her mother was putting a suitcase on a bus for her and she wondered if he could drive her to the station at midnight to pick it up.
"Sure," Raffaele said.
As soon as she left, we downloaded the movie on his computer and sat on his bed to watch it. Around 8:30 P.M. I suddenly remembered that it was Thursday, one of my regular workdays. Quickly checking my phone, I saw that Patrick had sent me a text telling me I didn't have to come in. Since it was a holiday, he thought it would be a slow night.
"Okay," I texted back. "Ci vediamo più tardi buona serata!"—"See you later. Have a good evening!" Then I turned off my phone, just in case he changed his mind and wanted me to come in after all. I was so excited to have the night off that I jumped on top of Raffaele, cheering, "Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo!"
Our good mood was only elevated when the doorbell rang again at 8:45 P.M: Jovanna had come back, this time to say that the suitcase hadn't made the bus and that she didn't need a ride after all. With no more obligations, we had the whole rest of the night just to be with each other and chill out.
After the movie ended, around 9:15 P.M., we sautéed a piece of fish and made a simple salad. We were washing the dishes when we realized that the kitchen sink was leaking. Raffaele, who'd already had a plumber come once, was frustrated and frantically tried to mop up a lot of water with a little rag. He ended up leaving a puddle.
"I'll bring the mop over from our house tomorrow. No big deal," I said.
Raffaele sat down at his desk and rolled a joint, and I climbed into his lap to read aloud to him from another Harry Potter book, this one in German. I translated the parts he didn't understand, as best I could, into Italian or English while we smoked and giggled.
Later, when we were in bed, our conversation wound its way to his mother. His dad had divorced her years before, but she'd never gotten over the break. In 2005 she had died suddenly. "Some ¬people suspect she killed herself, but I'm positive she didn't," Raffaele said. "She would never do that. She had a bad heart, and it just gave out. It was horrible for me—¬we were really close—¬and I miss her all the time."
I felt terrible for him, but it was hard for me to relate. The only person I knew who had died was my grandfather, when I was sixteen. I felt sad when my mom told me, but my grandfather had been old and sick, and we had expected his death for a few weeks.
I'm sure Mom and Oma must have cried, but my strongest memory is sitting around the dining room table telling funny stories about Opa. My grandmother's message—that grieving was something you did in private; that you didn't make public displays and you kept on moving forward—had remained with me.
Hearing the pain in Raffaele's voice, I hurt for him. Nestling my head on his chest, I tried to be comforting.
As we started kissing, Raffaele gave me a hickey on my neck. We undressed the rest of the way, had sex, and fell asleep.
We'd known each other for exactly one week and had settled so quickly into an easy routine that one night seemed to melt happily and indistinguishably into the one that came after.
We planned to break our routine the next day, All Souls' Day, by taking a long drive into the countryside, to the neighboring town of Gubbio. The November 2 holiday wasn't usually observed with as much fanfare as All Saints' Day, but since it fell on a Friday in 2007, a lot of people, including us, were turning it into a four-day weekend. I thought, Italians having a good time again. And I couldn't wait.
Archived in Officially involved, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The Sollecitos, Sollecito's book, The many hoaxes, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito
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Tuesday, July 01, 2014
Twice Today Amanda Knox's Long-Running Interrogation Hoax Turns On Her To Bite Her In The Tail
Posted by Peter Quennell
1. Today's Sollecito Claims
Take a look at this Knox statement and this Knox statement and this Knox statement.
If you think Knox was in a planned police interrogation, and her framing of Patrick was forced, over some hours, by tag-teams of cops, with no food, no drinks, no interpreter, and no lawyer, then the cops look bad and Knox is maybe home free.
But in fact voluminous testimony at trial by a whole host of those present in Perugia's central police station on the night of 5-6 November 2007 confirm that absolutely none of that is true.
In fact Knox rolled over on Patrick in a heartbeat, and it happened during a quiet session of name-listing of possible perps, a task in which Knox was pretty eager - perhaps so eager because none of them were herself and one of them was Rudy Guede.
Knox had turned up late at the police station, unwanted and grumpy, was advised to go and sleep, refused, agreed to build that list of possible perps (she listed seven), spontaneously broke into a wailing conniption over a message she sent to Patrick, was semi-calmed-down and repeatedly provided refreshments, and insisted on writing three statements without a lawyer all of which said she went out on the night of the attack, all framing Patrick, one even pointing at Sollecito.
Knox's erratic claims of pressure were of course disbelieved by the Massei trial court, she was convicted of calunnia, her appeals failed both at the Hellmann appeal court and the Supreme Court, and she served three years in Capanne Prison. Knox still owes Patrick a major payment and she herself continues to propagate the interrogation hoax repeatedly - in her book, on TV, in her email to Judge Nencini, and in her appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.
Sollico is now taking advantage of those three statements, and a claim that Knox's text message to Patrick was sent from outside Sollecito's apartment, to hint that Knox told the truth there, and he was not with her at the time when Meredith was killed.
2. Why This Might Resonate In Italy
This might lead to some review of "new evidence" though it cannot happen before Cassation confirms conviction.
Not so much because of the hard facts, which belie him, but because of the growing recognition of the enormous damage done to Italy's reputation by Curt Knox, Chris Mellas, and the paid thugs of their campaign.
And the threats to fight extradition, and the appallingly large sums of blood-money.
3. The Curt & Edda Defamation Trial
In a double whammy, a judge ruled in Perugia that Curt Knox and Edda Mellas must go on trial in the hard-line Florence court for their role in propagating that same interrogation hoax.
That is the same court that is already staging felony trials against Frank Sforza and Luciano Aviello and will soon stage defamation trials for the ironically titled Honor Bound against Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumbel.
This is from Andrea Vogt's latest website report (Update June 30, 2014) which as usual leaves in the dust all other non-Italian reporting except Barbie Nadeau's and John Follain's (though that is sadly behind the UK Times pay-wall).
Amanda Knox's biological parents, Curt Knox and Edda Mellas, faced a trial hearing in Perugia Monday on charges of defaming the local police with allegations in the international media (and reported in Italy) that their daughter was abused during questioning during the 2007 investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher.
The case Monday came before Perugia Judge Noviello, who opted not to hear witness testimony, but instead moved the case to Florence. This because the judge reportedly noted that the Perugia prosecutor was also defamed, even though he did not make any official complaints, therefore it is a case that should be handled outside the sphere of Umbrian influence.
Amanda Knox was convicted on appeal in January in Florence, but still faces another trial there – that of allegedly slandering the police (calumny) with false accusations on the stand, which in Italy is a more serious charge than just defamation\libel. Knox and her parents now both face decisions by Florentine courts about the outstanding charges
The claims being targeted for trial were made in 2010 so the Florence court has another three-plus years before the statute of limitations cuts in.
And this (tick tick) is from a TJMK post by Jools in January 2012.
The name of Amanda Knox was included in the list of trial witnesses that the defence for Kurt Knox and Edda Mellas, lawyers Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga intend to call to testify in court.
So Amanda Knox could want to testify under oath on the interrogation hoax - either that or see her parents go down. (Knox will probably also face trial in Bergamo for extensive defamation in her book. Amanda Knox could again want to testify under oath on the interrogation hoax - either that or see herself go down.)
We understand it was Knox lawyer Dalla Vedova who first asked for the Knox-Mellas trial to be moved to Florence. That was when Dr Mignini was the subject of a phony prosecution in Florence and Dalla Vedova seemed intent on embarrassing him.
Now Dr Mignini is riding high nationally, and is maybe having a few grins at Dalla Vedova's predicament.
Archived in Officially involved, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The many hoaxes, Amanda Knox
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Monday, June 30, 2014
Apart From Cassation's Unyielding Mandate, More Problems With The Belated Sollecito/Bongiorno U-Turn
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
1. The Appeal's Grounds For Separation
That bizarre infatuation of Bongiorno's with Knox as Jessica Rabbit is clearly long-gone.
Now the poor boy was home alone and the absent Miss Rabbit had reason and opportunity. Tiziano posted these ten translated points from the new Sollecito appeal to Cassation, which seems to have the highly nervous Knox camp's tongues tied.
Among the numerous flaws the proceedings appealed against present, the one linked to the claimed impossibility of differentiating between the two accused stands out.
On this point the Appeal Court denied any in-depth analysis at all of the individual roles - an investigation urged by the defence - avoiding taking any position about alternative constructive hypotheses.
10 points are enumerated by the defence in this regard:
- AK's memorial referring to events at via della Pergola was in the singular
- AK reported receiving SMS not to go to work from Lumumba, but went out just the same
- AK admitted having lied to RS
- RS did not calumny anyone: the accusation against PL was never confirmed by RS
- AK in her memorial positioned only herself at the crime scene at the time of the scream
- only AK's blood was on the knife blade
- no mixed traces RS/MK were found and highlighted by luminol in the house
- Quintavalle claimed to have seen AK the morning of November 2nd, not RS
- RS did not know RG and had no reason for wanting MK's death
- the alleged bad relations and the question of disappearance of money regarded only MK and AK
2, Popper Explains Why They Will Go Nowhere
Popper the highly informed Italian commenter on TJMK and PMF has explained on a previous post why this will fall on deaf ears in Cassation.
if RS said something he has not said before it would make no difference now. No more evidence can be admitted at the trial.
Fase istruttoria is over as judgement of merit. Cassazione can only respond on points appealed and they must be points of law otherwise they are not admissible. Defendants do not talk in hearing.
Once they are convicted, for example, if he had new information on the case and new evidence that proved (in a convincing way) he is not guilty, he could ask for revisione, basically a review of the trial.
He clearly has nothing to say though ... if he said she went out, judges knew that already. If he said that night he was in Milan and could prove it conclusively, that could trigger a review of a final sentence.
We are clearly talking in theory, no such thing will happen.
3. Could The 10 Points Have Worked Previously?
If Judge Nencini was still in the saddle could the ten points have had merit?
Our continuing Interrogation Hoax series has been hammering on the fact that on 5-6 November 2007 quite unpressured Knox herself did state that she went out alone without Sollecito on the night Meredith was murdered.
But these ten cherrypicked points above and a claim that RS was not even at Meredith's house that night are self-destroying over-reach. They would not have caused a win or partial win for Sollecito. Not one of them stands up as a get-out-of-jail-free card upon close readings of the reports of Judge Massei and Judge Nencini.
The lower courts did NOT deny analysis of the individual roles - the two themselves opted to be tried together, while Rudy Guede, fearing two snakes, chose to be tried separately.
WHEN did the defense urge investigation of their differing roles? What did the Massei trial court miss? It had many months of the sight of Sollecito - sitting there sulky, saying little, not taking the stand. Yes, not assisting Jessica Rabbit with an alibi, but that was not so obvious.
The wounds on Meredith and the evidence points in Meredith's room point overwhelmingly to three attackers. They prove the use of two knives from opposite sides. It was Sollecito's knife that was used for the fatal blow; that remains unshaken - actually, more confirmed by the Carabinieri.
See Ergon on the implacable knife evidence. Sollecito was the knife fetishist, and the one who was already into the cocaine or crystal meth that Knox was probably on judging by her telling smell the next day, her bizarre behaviors through the week following, and her odd money trail.
See the implacable evidence against him on the bathmat by SomeAlibi and Yummi. That footprint had to have been imprinted within a few minutes of the end of the attack on Meredith.
After the hijacked Hellmann appeal in 2011 Sollecito was deeply craven to Knox and her family and entourage on the US west coast. Craven to the extent that his own family (which despises the Knox-Mellases and blames Knox for his predicament and their lost name and enormous expenses) once hurriedly hopped on an aircraft to Seattle to enforce their separation.
Sollecito's hapless book-agent Sharlene Martin and shadow-writer Andrew Gumbel both live on the West Coast and Knox's radioactive FOA obviously provided most of the malicious fantasy that constitutes his defamatory book.
Playing chicken with the Italian justice system is notoriously suicidal. The crazy aggression of the Prestons, Fischers and Moores did not help Sollecito at all at the Nencini appeal (though it helped Knox even less - she got handed the longer sentence.)
The gods-in-their-own-minds in the FOA got Sollecito no US job and no US viza. The email to Judge Nencini and the appeal to ECHR and the promised fight against extradition for Knox are to him merely insults, and attempts to separate Knox off.
So, back in Italy, he is confused, let-down, disgruntled, and loaded for bear. Knox was the loose canon in 2007, Sollecito is the loose canon now.
Here is a key exchange between our main posters SeekingUnderstanding and Hopeful from previous threads.
4. Take On RS Now By SeekingUnderstanding
[t does seem so very sad and frustrating that Raphaele did not open the window of opportunity, as Judge Nencini tried to nudge him to do, just before Christmas.
He is less easy to read than Ms. Knox , for a number of reasons - more introverted, less articulate (certainly in English; but he also doesn't seem expressive in his own language), and because of the psychology itself.
You may remember I suggested AK finds it unbearable to acknowledge her darker side, to own her projections; unbearable to be thought of as 'a monster', to be unlovable, or indeed hated by people. This may be a strong component in her lying.
I believe Raphaele also finds things unbearable, but whereas Amanda appears to turn this unbearable feeling into lashing out to others, - I think in Raphaele, he finds himself and 'what has happened to him' (passive aggression) unbearable. His judgement has not only been poor, but catastrophically poor, - and he must know this. One wonders why the self-destruct.
He knows his life is ruined, and he knows his appalling judgement was instrumental. He truly doesn't have confidence in himself, but bluffs anyway. His 'ex', by contrast,has too much. If only she could have self-doubt, and feel shame.
He is not unintelligent, by no means, yet his choices and decisions at times have seemed near idiotically stupid. So there must be something else going on, something deep in his psyche that causes such confusion in his mental and emotional universe.
He seems unable to organize his emotions. He appears to want or expect or need a woman to 'sort them out' (sort him out). His relationship with his mother would probably reveal the source of this. How did she manage her emotions? Or did they rule her? . These are the sort of questions I might be asking. He seems overwhelmed, swallowed up by the juggernaut that AK set in motion.
Was his mother easily overwhelmed by life's problems? Something has gone wrong (drastically) with a healthy model for his 'anima'.
Where Amanda is the arch manipulator, he is highly manipulable. He seems to copy. Like her, his self-identity is weak, but for different reasons. Drug use, I would suggest, has been both crucial and disastrous for his mind. From this point of view, prison will be a constructive environment for him, (as AK too). Perhaps without the distorting and illusory aspects of drugs he might begin, over many years, to experience true spiritual (and therefore moral) issues.
I always think drugs give a delusion of spiritual experience ('the highs'), - wanting them can be (for an introvert) indicative of longing for something more spiritual, but using them will actually prevent such an experience, emphatically.
So then there is bitterness and emptiness, as well as despair and, still, confusion. Thus the addiction which starts as a cycle in the mind.
I knew a psychologist who worked with highly motivated and successful people in the Arts - people who would have burn out, creativity, and performance issues. He was extremely clever. But he was adamant that there had to be a hierarchy for dealing with problems.
That is to say, if someone was using drugs and/or alcohol to the point of misuse (extremely common in the performing arts), - this problem had to be mastered and dealt with FIRST, before anything else could even be addressed. This may seem irrelevant (as Sollecito hasn't shown he is creative), - but I would
say the signs are that his past (and current?) drug use needs to be sorted before anything else can possibly be.
Such a destructive shame that this has all dragged on for 7years.
I don't think he has any idea as to how to give a 'press conference' - even supposing , by a miracle, he was going to tell the unadulterated truth. He is way out of his depth. I doubt he has sufficient communication skills in his own language, let alone In English for the American media.
5. And The Take Of Hopeful On RS Now
As he is back in the spotlight for the July 1 press conference, your observations about him are timely. He does seem more introverted than Knox, and less articulate. Correct me if I misinterpret what you said about him, that rather than lash out at others aggressively like Knox does to disperse and blame others for her awful feelings about her dark side, Sollecito does the opposite and feels the weight of shame but turns the unbearable feelings inward. He is poster child for passive-aggressive.
I also believe he does have a sense of deep loyalty and faithfulness to his family, since his father has never abandoned him nor did his mother. He has misplaced loyalties at times, and combines a stubborn streak with false sense of need to persevere after he has made wrong steps.
This comment is mainly a review of what you conclude about Raf, but bears repeating. He is ashamed of his "catastrophically bad judgment." I agree, his pride is wounded, his vanity more than his love for Knox.
I believe Raffaele sincerely regrets what he realizes he has done to his own family, but still can't quite confess it. Maybe part of him is sorry but part of him is secretly glad he is controlling his father's destiny, in punitive action for divorcing his mother. He also sent his sister's career down the cliff. His sister is really to blame for that so with true passive-aggressive deceptiveness he can hide his responsibility for it while causing it.
His wanky emotions have made a trainwreck of his intelligence and caused him to do "idiotically stupid" things and self-destruct.
His drug use to relieve inner confusion caused by lack of self-identity is a coping method that does more harm than good. His patience is more of a drug stupor that makes him slow to act, than real gritted teeth patience, which may be why we've waited this long (6 years) for him to reveal the truth about Knox.
He stayed in a cloud of marijuana until she came along. She liked the drugs, too. He allowed her to set the course of his life because he needed or wanted a woman to sort out his emotions. Maybe he was competing with dad with a new hot blondie, too. He didn't fathom that Knox would become so extreme and so terrifying.
He underestimated Knox, and she saw she could manipulate and destroy him with one hand tied behind her back. She reveled in the besotted weakling, and she felt superiority over Guede too, and soon despised them both. She wouldn't fall into some darkened room or quiet void of depression like Raffaele's mom had done giving up on life. The insulated quiet Italian boy raised scrupulously did not see that with Knox he would be "swallowed up in the juggernaut AK set in motion". He wanted her power and excited vision, but he couldn't understand her mental illness that went with it. Love is blind.
As long as he could blame her and not himself maybe he was OK with it, especially with drugs to dull the pain, until he felt the full impact of her punishment and years later her treachery. Finally he grew a brain and saw it was Knox who betrayed him, not vice versa. Maybe the press conference is to set that straight.
His drug use got him through much of his first year of prison when he lost all sense of time and space. He was a basketcase. He probably used meds his last 3 years behind bars as well. Perhaps Dr. Sollecito saw that his son got legal prescriptions for him, maybe even purchasing prison favors that way, who knows?
Maybe Knox scoffed at Raf's crutch, and she continued to compete with him behind bars. She scoffed at her mom for taking antidepressants. Knox had no room to talk as she herself was reportedly a massive drug user at UW and in Italy found a job where liquor flowed.
Has Raf continued the drug use? Does Greta his new girlfriend use drugs? Or has he sworn them off motivated by anger and determination to clear his head for his legal fight?
The concept of "anima" is unknown to me, although the term is familiar. I will research it online, thank you. Your insights are always valuable, thank you for sharing them. Thanks for educating us in the short comment format which can't do justice to your full knowledge of the subject, but does shed a lot of light and points the way.
Raffaele's mother and her sad demise seem to be at the root of her son's depression. Raf has lack of confidence and the need to bluff where he feels no real power. He and Knox are still learning tricks from each other.
I think Knox may have been a father-figure to him in a twisted way, because Amanda is energetic and adventurous and for a short while in Perugia seemed to have it all together and be a hard worker like his dad. Raf met Knox at the peak of her exhileration with her new life in Italy. Like a drug high, it might not have lasted. He was completely deceived.
He may have felt he could never compete with his older sister who might have seemed to him like Amanda and his dad: energetic, capable, feet on ground. This is probably what Raf needs in his life.
Raf commented on Knox living life as if in a dream, there was no reality in her mind, she lived only for pleasure. Maybe he did not like this side of her. This was his wakeup call and he spoke about it openly because it was something he didn't like, having thought at first glance she was a strong American. He didn't know whether to attribute her odd mental impracticality to her nationality, her genetics, her femaleness, or her unknown religious upbringing. He had no clue, and maybe it even made him feel stronger and more grounded by comparison since he had formerly thought of himself as a tetherless dreamer but he didn't want another spaced out confused dreamer like himself for a partner and was having second thoughts. He preferred her rough kick-butt side. She was the brother he never had, a wild West type, a cowboy to climb trees with and roam the range, the key to a new country after his launch to Munich didn't work out.
In early childhood Raf maybe got labeled or saw himself as "slow" or "dumb" and began to live a self-fulfilling prophecy. He might have felt misunderstood knowing that he did have a lot of intelligence, but that he did not have the same personality as his dad or sis, and not wanting to be equated with his pushed aside mom. He must have felt very alone.
He also may be carrying a lot of shame about his MPD Psycho habit and his secret fantasy life of violence.
Raffaele may have been turned off yet partly tantalized by his father's profession. A doctor sees a lot of blood and gruesome things with the body.
Raffaele may hero worship a father who can face such grotesque things without wincing, and a sister who had power with the police and saw crime victims.
You mention the Arts and a psychologist who treated performers with burnout and creative types who needed help or a life coach. Maybe Raffaele does see himself as more that artsy type of person, someone wanting to create computer games, sci-fi fantasy, or be an "Experience Teller". He did write a book, so maybe he does fall into the category of artistic temperament, which often needs a guide or an infusion of stiffened backbone to face the realities of life in a business sense.
Knox seems to be struggling with math, yet her mom is a math teacher and her dad an accountant.
Archived in Officially involved, The defenses, Diversion efforts, The Sollecitos, The many hoaxes, Spezi/Preston hoax, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito
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Sunday, June 29, 2014
Sneak Preview Of Giulia Bongiorno Making Silk Purse Out Of Sow's Ear At RS Media Nonevent This Week
Posted by Peter Quennell
What is the Sollecito lawyer and politician Giulia Bongiorno most famous in Italy for?
Well it sure aint her grasp of the finer points of Italian law. Or her ability to win in court without over-the-top PR and peculiar tricks. Or her accuracy on those pesky facts of the case. Or her foolish tongue before a very key judge.
Most of all, what Bongiorno IS known in Italy for is being shrill, bullying, and high-key - most especially when yet another of her hapless clients is going down, or when she is on the political stump.
Watch this spot-on satirical impersonation by the terrific Italian impersonator Dario Ballantini which was aired nationally on Italian TV and made a lot of Italians laugh. You can hear the audience there.
It doesnt need a grasp of the Italian language to amuse long-suffering Bongiorno skeptics seeing her taken down a peg. Meredith, the name of the victim here: does Bongiorno even know that? If the victim's suffering family was Italian and regularly on Italian TV would Italy tolerate her callous, cruel act?
Here is an Italian woman one really can admire.
Archived in Officially involved, The defenses, The wider contexts, Italian context, Raff Sollecito
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Saturday, June 28, 2014
Sollecito Suddenly Remembers He Wasnt There But Cannot Speak For Knox Who (As She Said) Went Out
Posted by Peter Quennell
1. The State Of Play
Sollecito is becoming intent again on digging himself out (really). But he na dhis own team have created definite problems.
Consider for example the last two public performances by Raffaele Sollecito's defense, both in Florence. They consisted of:
- 1. Giulia Bongiorno in her summation back in January, in Florence, at the tail-end of RS's and AK's appeal, ranting on foolishly about Perugia and Rome justice officials, in an apparent attempt to outdo even the nastiness of Amanda Knox's earlier email to Judge Nencini which also ranted on foolishly about those officials.
2. Giulia Bongiorno fooishly taking strong offense to Judge Nencini wondering why Sollecito remained so bound to Knox and so little forthcoming, and then Bongiorno foolishly having her political allies advance a complaint to the Supreme Council of Magistrates, dropped after a brief investigation.
Yes that is the same Judge Nencini who already reacted firmly to abrasive pressure from the Knox camp. And the same Judge Nencini to whom Cassation MUST refer tha case back down if there is to be any hope of adjustment of the outcome of the appeal.
Bongiorno's were not exactly the smartest of moves.
3. Today's New Development
An apparent u-turn, or at least a blink and slight deviation, in the suicidal game of chicken the Knox and Sollecito camps have long thought to be so smart.
Bongiorno or others very close to Sollecito, probably including his father and an aunt, seem to be again shooting for an additional degree of separation.
This familiar loosening of bonds with Amanda Knox was apparently explicit in his appeal to Cassation and today it is made slightly more explicit by Sollecito in a magazine interview.
And next Tuesday the Sollecito team will stage a press conference.
2. Fraught With Problems
The Sollecitos would be wise to bump up their plea to Cassation about 100-fold. Substantial evidence that Sollecito was at the house still looms like an 80,000 pound gorilla - see a listing of it in one of our next posts.
And one key thing about the Italian system: it has immense capacity to hit back very hard in response to out-of-court pressure and attempts to poison public opinion.
As we have explained previously, these strong powers originate in the endless fight against the mafias, which have long used defamation of justice officials as a way of seeking some relief for their guys.
The reason why Knox is sentenced to 28 and a half years on top of her three years served for calunnia doesnt yet seem to have sunk into the slow minds of Knox or her family or her vigilantes..
But Sollecito is increasingly alive to the ability of Italian justice to hit back very hard when the justice system and its officials are impugned.
Yesterday Sollecito and his lawyer Alfredo Brizioli were being interviewed for the multiple false charges of crimes in Honor Bound The book is pretty horrific and new charges seem certain.
The foolish shadow-writer Andrew Gumbel has surfaced, and appointed a lawyer, and is expected to join him.
Our guess? Sollecito will need to tell all, and make a major plea for forgiveness from the Kerchers, if any adults with real powers are to give him any break.
Archived in The former defendants, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, Officially involved, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, The Sollecitos
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Wednesday, June 25, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #8: Testimony Of Interpreter Donnino And Central Police Officer Giobbi
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
Knox shortly before rising to try to persuade court against this damning testimony
1. What Really Happened on 5-6 November
The intros to Posts #1 to #7 explain what really happened at Knox's recap/summary session on 5-6 November 2007.
In a sentence: Knox was there unwanted and grumpy, was advised to go and sleep, refused, agreed to build a list of possible perps (she listed seven, including Rudy Guede), spontaneously broke into a wailing conniption over a message she sent to Patrick, was semi-calmed-down and repeatedly provided refreshments, and insisted on writing three statements without a lawyer all of which said she went out on the night of the attack, all framing Patrick, one even pointing at Sollecito.
The headers of all previous posts in this series can be found at the end of Post #1.
2. Testimony Of Interpreter Anna Donnino
Click below to open up Anna Donnino's testimony kindly translated by Catnip. She did a lot of the case-related interpretation and translation throughout November 2007. She was present at the recap/summary session with Rita Ficarra on 6 November from around 12:30 am which concluded with a first statement Knox insisted on dictating at 1:45 am.
Anna Donnino was also present at the formal legal-rights session with Dr Mignini on 6 November from around 5:00 am which conclude with a second statement Knox insisted on dictating at 5:45 am. Donnino translated both those statements and the third Knox scribbled around noon. .
The transcript below describes this and other work done also. She was not the only interpreter or translator used by the police in November, but she did the bulk of the work, and she was present at several key sessions.
3. Relevant Testimony Of Officer Edgardo Giobbi
Click below to open up Edgardo Giobbi's testimony kindly translated by ZiaK. An officer from Rome, he was in the central police station that night. He doesnt make a fully credible witness, as he includes claims about his role that night which we are told are inflated and perhaps beamed at his superiors in Rome.
These exaggerations were skeptically challnged by Dr Mignini. However for what it is worth his testimony backs up certain aspects of the statements of those who actually were face to face with Knox and Sollecito that night. Nobody else testified that Knox was called to the questura and several testified that she wasnt and turned up and insisted on staying on her own account.
ZiaK's full translation of Dr Giobbi's testimony can be found on McCall's Wiki.
Click here for more
Archived in Officially involved, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, The many hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax, Amanda Knox
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Monday, June 23, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #7: Full Testimony Of Witness Lorena Zugarini To Knox Conniption 5-6 Nov
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
[Perugia cental police station: Meredith's house is several miles away directly behind]
1. Place In Series Arc Of This Post
This translated transcript continues the testimony of Inspector Lorena Zugarini quoted in the post directly below.
It is a further description from the fourth of about eight police staff who testified to Knox agreeing to help out with a list of possible perps and then melting down at the central police station on 5-6 Nov.
We'll have one more eyewitness post and after that what the oversight judges made of this in 2008. Thereafter, Knox's disbelieved claims on the stand at her trial in 2009 when she tried to deny framing Patrick, and accused the police of crimes, and the reasons why all the trial and appeal judges from 2009 to 2014 concluded she had lied, and all the many witnesses had told the truth .
Then we enter an alternative universe, that of Amanda Knox herself (really) and the many Knox addicts mainly in the US who amazingly have shrugged off all of this rock-solid arc, and have pushed the interrogation hoax to its present ludicrous shape and size.
Those alternative-universe posts should put the shrill conspiracists on the put-up-or-shut-up spot and determine whether Knox continues on the same futile, damaging tack.
6. Testimony of Inspector Lorena Zugarini At Trial
To the co-prosecutor at trial Dr Mignini Inspector Zugarini describes her role in the summary/recap session in which Amanda Knox built her list of seven possible perps.
Yet again the main thrust is that Knox was being treated pretty nice, and that if anyone dropped her in it, it was Sollecito and Knox herself.
Inspector Lorena Zugarini was there along with with Rita Ficarra (see posts 1-4) and Anna Donnino (see posts 5 and 6) and Ivano Raffo from Rome who, Rita Ficarra testified, held Knox's hand to calm her down.
This also is new translation by the professional translator ZiaK. "GCM" who often seeks clarifications is Judge Massei.
Prosecutor Dr Giuliano Mignini
Dr Mignini: Did you question Amanda by any chance?
Lorena Zugarini: Yes.
GM: Therefore? [sic: typo "quindi" instead of "quando" = "when"]
LZ: The 5th.
GM: Did you do anything particular from the 2nd to the 5th other than these routine investigations, crime-scene investigation, I don't know ...
LZ: No. Granted, one couldn't go inside the house because there was the Forensic Police, so we, as the Flying Squad, we are not supposed to enter until the Forensics have finished, always because of the question of contamination of evidence.
GM: The Forensics, when [did] they finish the initial operations?
LZ: Initial - if I'm not wrong - the 6th; either the 5th or the 6th.
GM: So on the 5th, you heard Amanda?
LZ: I was there, in the Questura [Police station] because very few hours of the night, not days, but very few hours of the night, and like me also other colleagues - especially those who were from the Section that was more or less, shall we say quote unquote, in charge of the murder issue - we almost stayed overnight in the Questura, except for two or three hours at night, when we'd go home.
GM: Do you recall when Amanda arrived?
LZ: So on Amanda, I remember that Raffaele Sollecito was called and invited to come and be heard/questioned. They told me that Raffaele was out to dinner, that he'd been given the possibility of finishing dinner, of eating, etc. etc., and to then come to the Questura. And I remember that along with Raffaele there was also Amanda, and honestly, I said to myself: "But how on earth is it that these two are always together?" Because we, on that evening ... that is to say, we, our staff, we had called only and exclusively Sollecito.
GM: So you were together with Rita Ficarra that evening?
LZ: I was there in the Questura - when Raffaele was called, Rita Ficarra wasn't there [yet].
GM: So you were present when Amanda arrived?
LZ: Yes, I was present when Amanda arrived, and Raffaele Sollecito. Raffaele Sollecito was taken up to a room that was ..., he was to be heard/questioned by other colleagues if I'm not mistaken, also by Deputy Commissioner Napoleoni. After which, Amanda was made to leave the room, and I personally accompanied her to the outside of the Flying Squad [offices], to where there were seats, and she was made to sit [NdT: also "made comfortable"] there. Then after [doing] that thing, I instead returned back inside the Flying Squad [offices].
GM: And so you carried out, you heard/questioned various people that evening, no?
LZ: I heard/questioned more than one person. Raffaele Sollecito, I didn't hear/question him, me, because there were already colleagues who were hearing/questioning him. I was there inside the Flying Squad [offices], [where] maybe I was reading the recaps/summary informations of the others, or else I was looking for a moment at the case files.
GM: Do you remember when… When Inspector Ficarra started to hear/question Amanda, you were - shall we say - in the Flying Squad [offices]?
LZ: I was there, in the offices of the Flying Squad. I was going out of the Flying Squad [offices], together with the Deputy Commissioner, in order to go down[stairs] to the little machine that we have; a drinks and snacks machine. We wanted to go down[stairs] to get something, and I saw that Amanda was talking with some colleagues from the SCO. What she was saying, I have no idea. And in the meantime, I saw Inspector Ficarra come out of the lift on the third floor, that gives access to the Flying Squad [offices].
GM: So you went down[stairs]. And then?
LZ: I went down[stairs]. In the meantime, however, I noted that Amanda, while she was there, was an extremely relaxed person, and I even felt very upset/ill because at a certain point she suddenly did the splits there in the corridor. She did the splits and did a cartwheel, saying "I'm doing a sport". She said it in English, but in English I don't know it, me. Translated into Italian, like I know it, it's a sport that she climbs on rocks with bare hands and no ropes, without anything. In order to show what level of training/preparedness she had. Then I went down[stairs] and I went to get something to drink, in fact, and then we came back up and [Amanda was] together with Rita Ficarra, because Amanda was stating the [names of] people who probably would have visited the house on Via della Pergola, whom she and whom Meredith ... [in short, those] who might have known her…
GM: So, excuse me, let me understand; so you were coming and going in the various rooms?
LZ: Yes, I was coming and going because in that moment Raffaele Sollecito was inside one room with [some] colleagues, and I didn't think it was expedient/advisable to enter.
GM: Did you stop [in] then, at a certain point, while Amanda was being heard/questioned?
LZ: I went down[stairs], as I'm coming back, to reconfirm, having got the drink, I went back up and I noticed that Amanda was talking with Inspector Ficarra outside [the offices], and that she was saying to her "I'll tell you the people". And right there and then, she wrote them down herself in a notebook, on a sheet [of paper] that she had with her. Afterwards, together with Rita, with Inspector Ficarra, then, when we saw the facts/information, we said "Ok", we said [agreed we needed] an office where we [could] go to hear/question Amanda for a moment, and take her recap/summary information, since in any case she had to wait for Raffaele.
GM: Without telling us the content of the declarations, obviously, [can you] if checks were carried out on the cellphones?
LZ: Well, so, Amanda, she had her cellphone with her still, because there was no reason to need to take it from her, and Amanda handed over her cellphone to a colleague from the SCO, after Amanda said "I'll write down the names with the telephone [numbers] of the people who probably could have known Meredith too".
GM: So she handed over the cellphone to the individual from the SCO. Who was that [individual]? Do you remember?
LZ: I don't remember because there were various colleagues [around] from the SCO.
GM: So this [individual] belonging to the SCO, what did he do?
LZ: He took the cellphone and went out for a moment. I don't know where he went because I remained inside the room. Shortly afterwards, he came back, and together with Amanda they started to scroll – Inspector Rita Ficarra and the colleague from SCO – they started to scroll through the messages and they asked her "This one, who is it? This other one, who is it?" and Amanda was answering.
GM: [And] then?
LZ: After, at a certain point, this [officer was] still taking [down] the report/minutes, since the message was reached that, if I'm not mistaken, was from Patrick, that there was written Patrick above it, she was asked who is Patrick, and there [at that point] Amanda …
GM: If I can just show [her] the … [shows cellphone screen image].
LZ: Yes, that one there.
GCM: She was shown the copy of the message taken from the cellphone.
LZ: [The] SMS on Amanda's cellphone.
GM: And then?
LZ: Yes, she was asked for explanations regarding [the] "Certainly, see you later, good evening" ["Certo, ci vediamo più tardi, buona serata"]. We asked her who Patrick is, and in that moment Amanda shed tears – whether she was crying sincerely [in earnest] I don't know – however she shed tears.
GM: Did she make any gestures/movements?
LZ: Yes. She put, I remember that she hiked up/drew up her legs, she crouched on her chair, put her hands around her head, on her ears, and started to say "He's bad/mean, he's bad/mean", to shake her head, she said: "I remember hearing Meredith who was screaming, and Patrick who was hurting her".
GCM: One cannot report on the declarations made unless… Please.
LZ: I beg your pardon.
GM: What thing…
GCM: So she had this behaviour?
LZ: Yes.
GM: You saw this behaviour?
LZ: Yes.
GM: So then what happened? What did you [all] do?
LZ: At that point, Inspector Rita Ficarra decided to suspend the minutes/written record because the position had changed a bit, because she said to us "I was …" – Ah! I cannot…
GCM: Yes, you cannot. So she was changed, and you suspended the minutes/written record, and …
LZ: Yes, we interrupt [sic] the …
GM: They were in accordance with Article 63.
LZ: We interrupt [sic] the minutes/written record. I personally said to her if she wanted ...
GM: Because indications of guilt had emerged?
LZ: Yes, exactly. I said [sic] to her if she wanted the presence of a Lawyer, [to] which she said "No, I don't need one".
GM: Can you describe for us what you did after, that is to say, what happened afterwards? Did she continue to cry? What did she do?
LZ: I repeat, I can't say whether [she was] crying: she was shedding tears: a behaviour that was still strange. She had a moment of, if I may say this, of crisis, seeing this type of message and [us] asking who this person was, after which I left the room …
GM: Bu you, excuse me, did you ask "But why does he frighten you? Why are you crying?" Did you ask her that?
LZ: Yes, certainly that was asked of her. She, [in answer to] such a question, said to me: "I remember that inside, that I was inside the kitchen".
GCM: Enough. On this, obviously, you cannot report, unless it is necessary/helpful. So you asked explanations about the behaviour…
LZ: Yes, for me it is helpful/necessary because I didn't understand such a type of behaviour on [NdT: i.e. "in response to"] a completely normal message.
GCM: And you asked for an explanation.
LZ: Yes. I said to her: "What on earth? What is happening? Who is [NdT: my emphasis] this person?"
GCM: In the scope of the interrogation?
LZ: Yes. Because until 5 minutes earlier, she was a completely normal person.
GCM: So you asked for explanations of this behaviour. Ok.
LZ: [Until] 5 minutes earlier she was completely normal, [and] then when she saw this message, and at the question "Who is this Patrick" she flew off the handle [NdT: "escandescenza" is actually a fit of rage, with violent words and menacing gestures", I don't know if the witness used the word in the sense of "fit of rage", but this is the meaning of the word she chose.]
GCM: These fits of rage, what did they consist of? [Did] she shed tears and shake her head?
LZ: Yes. She drew her legs up, [and] put her hands on her head.
GCM: Hands on the ears?
LZ: She put her hands on her head, [and] started to do like this.
GCM: She was shaking her head.
LZ: She was shaking her head, and said to me "To me, this person …"
GCM: You cannot. That is to say, you can report the declarations made only if they were useful, and to give us an indication about the subsequent investigative activity.
LZ: For me, personally, I repeat, it was a moment in which I see this message, that is I ask [what] the presence of this message [means], and I see a reaction of this type, I ask myself "What on earth What has just happened?" [sic: NdT: Zugarini also speaks often in the present tense.]
GCM: And she gave the answer that she [NdT: also "you"] gave.
GM: Had you Did you, in the investigations that you carried out, had you conjectured [the occurrence] of a sexual assault?
LZ: I personally, yes, because she [NdT: i.e. Meredith] was naked.
GM: Because she was naked. But what are the elements that made you think of sexual assault? On what basis did you carry out investigations…? You said that one element was the fact that the young woman was naked.
LZ: Yes.
GM: What other elements? I mean, these declarations, shall we say, were they the cause for carrying out investigations on a sexual assault?
LZ: I'll go back to reassert that, from the moment when she was shown a message and a reaction of a person to the question "But for what reason are you doing these things? Why are you reacting in this way to this message?, she says to me "I see this person who is doing evil, and I hear my friend Meredith who's screaming"; in all honesty, we also had a doubt, in short.
Maria Del Grosso [Knox lawyer]: President, I am trying to reiterate the objection, because here there's a continuous… it's a continuous violation.
GM: However it is impossible…
GCM: Because the Prosecutor's question concerned at a certain point [whether] the investigations also turned towards a hypothesis of sexual assault, and she gave him a positive answer saying that yes, because the body was naked, [so] there are other elements too…
LZ: Other elements of people who knew – especially Meredith's English friends, who Meredith visited in a regular way, who said to us that Meredith, from what they told us, was a very serious person, who did not give absolute familiarity/intimacy, that is to say, she did not give much familiarity/intimacy… naturally being a girl, and being also a [burdened/serious] type of girl, the young men who gave recaps/summary information said that… that they also, if one can say this, tried it on with her, to which she absolutely never gave them any encouragement…
GCM: So on the basis of these [pieces of] information the investigations were directed towards …
LZ: Yes, also the recaps/summary information of people, of people who were heard for recaps/summary information.
GM: After this, to when the minutes/written record was interrupted, between the interruption of the minutes/written record and the presentation… to the spontaneous declarations: how much time passed?
LZ: I didn't understand [you], excuse me.
GM: Between the moment when the minutes/written record was halted by Inspector Ficarra to the moment when I heard her [give her] spontaneous declarations, how much time passed?
LZ: That, honestly, I can't tell you, because from the moment when Patrick Lumumba's name came out, and we knew that he was in fact the owner of a pub located on Via Alessi, etc. etc., I personally went together with other colleagues …
GM: So you left …
LZ: I left Amanda. Also because, to be honest, I didn't really discuss it earlier, but I had, shall we say, a bit of an exchange of ideas with Inspector Rita Ficarra, because Inspector Rita Ficarra went down[stairs] several times with Amanda to get drinks from down there, from that same little [drinks-and-snacks] machine in the Questura.
GM: Listen: can you recall for me whether she was subjected to aggressions, to pressure, to blows?
LZ: Absolutely not! Even if I remember perfectly that, still with Inspector Rita Ficarra, I said to her "We're talking about a girl [who's had her] throat slit", and the owner [NdT: in the feminine] of the actual/current bar that is located within the Questura [premises] was made to come up with a hot drink and little baked goods that were brought to Amanda, and I made a joke that not even in 20 years of [being in the] Police had any colleagues ever brought me these kinds of things like that, in the [same] way as Amanda was being treated.
GM: So therefore you were present then for the [written] spontaneous declarations?
LZ: Of Amanda?
GM: Of Amanda.
LZ: No. The minutes/written record was interrupted…
GM: Was there an interpreter?
LZ: Yes, the interpreter. In fact, Amanda's recaps/summary information were even taken with a bit of delay because, if I'm not mistaken, Inspector Rita Ficarra came back to the Questura, or at any rate she came out of the lift of the Questura, at around about 23:00 hours, and if I'm not mistaken the minutes/written record began around 01:00 a.m.: around about 01:00 the minutes/written record was taken in the waiting for an interpreter of the local Questura, Anna Donnino, to come from her house to the Questura to be able to take Amanda['s declaration], even though she [Amanda] spoke in a fairly passable Italian.
GM: So you, in effect, lose contact with Amanda, and you deal with ...
LZ: From the moment when the minutes/written record was interrupted…
GM: [So when] the minutes/written record is suspended, you begin, you participate in the search for Patrick.
LZ: I participate in the search for Patrick.
GM: And then what other activity did you carry out?… [continues on other subjects]
Patrick Lumumba Attorney Pacelli
CP: Just a few clarifications on the questioning by the Public Prosecutor, to follow up on a question that Dr Mignini made a short while ago, with regard to how your investigations turned to the, shall we say, sexual aspect, or as if to the sexual backdrop of the crime, because in fact, in answering the Prosecutor, you said "I had formed my own personal opinion of a sexual backdrop, seeing the body of the poor victim semi-naked, or at any rate, naked.
Inspector Lorena Zugarini: Naked.
CP: So, to follow up in what was perhaps the Prosecutor's intentions, I wanted to understand: was it also because of the content of the declarations made by Knox on the night of 5 November that your investigations turned towards the sexual backdrop? That is, was it also because of what Knox said to you that night?
LZ: I'll return to reconfirm, Attorney, that from the moment when Amanda – who previously had been [one of the] most calm people in the world, because after we had given her hot drinks, water, she had kept her cellphone with her, and all that – from the moment in which a colleague, together with Inspector Rita Ficarra, showed her the message and from the tone of the message – it is a very normal message as far as I'm concerned, it's an extremely normal message – [so], not understanding Amanda's reaction, if until three minutes before she was [one of the] most calm people in this world, not understanding Amanda's reaction in relation to the message, logically questions were asked of her: "but why do you have this behaviour as soon as you read this message?"
CP: So after her answers, also because of her answers, you turned towards …
LZ: When a person says to you: I see, I hear Meredith's screams…
CP: Yes, but you were perfectly clear. A final clarification: at a certain point, you go away. However, before leaving, [did] you witness/were you present at Amanda's declarations of accusation, what Amanda declared with respect to Patrick Lumumba?
LZ: Absolutely, yes, because I turn again to reassert that if you read the message…
GCM: Yes, absolutely, yes. Please, Attorney. The question?
CP: In making these affirmations, before making these affirmations, or while she was making these affirmations, was Amanda struck with kicks or punches or slaps?
LZ: In the most absolute way [No].
CP: Was she in any way, by any one of you, forced to make declarations, or … the declarations that she made, some of the declarations, or all of the declarations that she made in that moment?
LZ: Attorney, I tell you again that what we are doing, it is not an interrogation, [but] what we are asking …
GCM: Yes, yes. Excuse me, but it's enough to simply say no.
LZ: When we ask things of a person, we ask them [sic], it's logical. Maybe tiredness might take over…
CP: Were any of the subjects that Amanda made declarations about suggested to her in any way, or were they all carried out on her own completely spontaneous will? There was no suggestion of names, of ways, of circumstances?
LZ: Me, I never saw Amanda before, before 2 November.
CP: No, but I'm saying 5 November. Was something of what she had [NdT: "had" as in "posssessed" not as in "was made to". I.e. it is the Past Simple of the verb "to have] to declare that evening suggested to her?
LZ: Absolutely not.
CP: So you can confirm to us that, at any rate, even in those circumstances and for the whole period from 2 to 5, until all her declarations, even until the arrest, she was always treated with respect, with humanity, and with absolute…
LZ: I repeat again, I made that joke with Inspector Rita Ficarra, even the current owner at that time of the bar inside the Questura, brought her I don't remember if it was a camomile tea or a black tea, with little pastries and a croissant.
CP: I have no further questions.
Sollecito Defence Attorney Bongiorno
GB: You participated in the preliminary hearing, you were present?
LZ: Yes.
GB: All the preliminary hearings, some?
LZ: Almost all.
GB: Even the one when Stefanoni was heard/questioned?
LZ: No.
GB: In the one when Kocomani was heard/questioned?
LZ: No.
GB: When we did the pleadings/summation and the prosecutor's final statement?
LZ: Some, yes.
Knox Defense Attorney Luciano Ghirga
LG: ... Listen, now let's turn to the evening of the 6th when you participated with Inspector Ficarra in the recaps/summary information of Amanda Knox.
LZ: Of the 5th.
LG: No, of the 6th, because it is after midnight, [it is] one-forty-five. The night between 5 and 6, that is the beginning of the minutes/written record, and 01:45 hours, so we understand each other, and they are called summary informations/recaps.
LZ: Thank you.
LG: No, I didn't mean anything. You said the 5th, for me it is the 6th, that's all: it's not contentious/a contradiction.
GCM: Please Attorney.
LG: And then, it's not actually necessary.
LZ: No, no.
LG: Do you recall whether, having begun these interrogation activities, one or other of your colleagues who was participating in Sollecito's interrogation came in to inform you in some way of the progress of Sollecito's interrogation?
LZ: Yes, there was Deputy Commissioner Napoleoni who every so often came there to see how it was going, and the thing that she then told us that Sollecito was not longer giving the big [sic] alibi as far as Amanda was concerned.
LG: And the operation regarding the SMS message of which you spoke, [that] came about after this information, shall we say, let's call it information, communication.
LZ: I believe so, yes.
GCM: Excuse me on this; did you communicate this immediately to Amanda Knox? This is what the Attorney was asking.
LG: I have said, this quote-unquote interrogation began …
LZ: Yes. I beg your pardon, Attorney.
LG: And a colleague comes, you say that a colleague comes, I don't know whether it's Napoleoni, at any rate someone comes …
LZ: No.
GCM: Please. Continue, Attorney.
LG: I am referring to this thing that you precisely reported: Sollecito returned [sic] the alibi to Amanda.
LZ: Yes.
LG: Something of the sort. He no longer gives a big [sic] alibi; he removes the alibi, I don't know: the operations concerning the little message found in Amanda's telephone, did these occur after this communication?
LZ: Anyhow I tell you that when the Deputy Commissioner, or whoever entered inside that room on her behalf, it's not that they spoke in front of Amanda, so Amanda could not hear the content of our discussions. After which, I honestly, I believe that the message was shown to Amanda after the presence of Deputy Commissioner Napoleoni or someone on her behalf.
LG: Last question, Mr President: these courtesy activities – a hot drink, a croissant, or whatever – did they happen after the conclusion of the two interrogations of Amanda, shall we say?
LZ: Absolutely not.
LG: So when did they take place then?
LZ: Well, they took place either before taking [sic] Amanda for the first time, also because we had to wait for the interpreter, if I'm not mistaken, Anna Donnino, who had to come from home because they had called her from the Questura to bring herself [sic] to our offices because we had, in fact, to hear a girl, in the English language, even though she spoke Italian fairly well: for reasons of our own peace [of mind] and for reasons of Amanda's ease/peace of mind, the interpreter was called. So during the wait for Anna Donnino to arrive, Amanda was provided with both hot drinks and water, and whatnot.
LG: And later you don't recall whether there was another… You said it first, yourself.
LZ: No, also later.
LG: Also later?
LZ: Also later.
LG: That's what it seemed to us. Thank you.
LZ: No no, I have said [that] the lady from the bar – the bar is closed at night in our place; if I'm not mistaken [it closes] around 5, 5-thirty – the bar must have been open already, I already said that the owner of the bar came to bring her chamomile or tea, in short.
LG: Thank you.
Judge Massei
GCM: And a last thing: when the circumstance about the alibi came to light, that Raffaele Sollecito thus did not seem, no longer confirmed the alibi, [when] this fact came to light, did you bring it to the knowledge of Amanda Knox, this fact?
LZ: No, no, absolutely no. Absolutely, not, because ...
GCM: How was it brought to [your] awareness.
LZ: I remember that the Deputy Commissioner came there and said to us: "Listen carefully to/Question carefully Amanda, because there are discrepancies on what Raffaele has said, even during the previous days".
GCM: As far as you know, [this] was not brought to Amanda Knox's awareness?
LZ: As far as I am concerned, no.
GCM: Very well.
Archived in The former defendants, Amanda Knox, Officially involved, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, The many hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
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Friday, June 20, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #6: Sollecito Transcript & Actions Further Damage Knox Version
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
1. Breaking News From The Sollecito Appeal
It is in effect being reported (see below) that the Sollecto team have asked Cassation to concede that back in 2008 they - Cassation - maybe made a mistake in the law.
That, the Sollecito team said, directly caused a disadvantage to their guy. And they may very well be right. If Cassation agrees, it may leave Knox with no further effective fight.
2. What Happened When Knox Was "Interrogated"
To fully understand this, it will pay you to have read this series which includes major new translations by the professional translator ZiaK. And especially Part 2 of the previous post.
You will see repeatedly confirmed by those who were there these key facts:
(1) Amanda Knox turned up at the Perugia central police station late at night, unwanted and grumpy, and was advised to go home and get some sleep.
(2) Inspector Ficarra later said if she really wanted, she could help, she could build a list of possible perps, in a recap/summary session (not an interrogation).
(3) For maybe 45 minutes, starting at 12:30 am (when the interpreter arrived), Knox quite calmly listed seven names along with maps drawn.
(4) Knox was then quietly told Sollecito had contradicted her alibi (see his newly translated statement below). Knox had no immediate reaction.
(5) Soon after, Knox had a wailing conniption, which really startled the four others present, when Knox saw an outgoing text to her boss she had just said wasnt there.
(6) Police did what they could to calm her down, and she insisted on writing out three statements (see below) in supposed elaboration in less than 12 hours.
(7) She was warned she should have a lawyer each time, the second warning by Dr Mignini, but each time she shrugged off this advice and pressed on.
3. More About Knox's Three Statements
Cassation ruled in April 2008 that the first two statements could not be used to indict Knox at the murder trial, but all three could be used to argue her framing of Patrick.
All three of Knox's voluntary statements of 5-6 November say she was at her house with Patrick; the main thrust of the third statement (handwritten when she knew Patrick was being held nearby and may have proved her a liar at any minute) was to spread the accusations around a bit more, and drop Sollecito also in the soup
But the voluntary 1:45 and 5:45 statements also include these damning claims:
Statement 1:45: "I responded to the message [from Patrick] by telling him that we would see each other at once; I then left the house, telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work.
Statement 5:45: "I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called "Le Chic" located in Via Alessi where I work periodically. I met him in the evening of November 1st 2007, after sending him a reply message saying "I will see you". We met soon after at about 21.00 at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana. "
See the possible opportunity for Sollecito's team via the new appeal here? That's one supposed "proof" that he wasn't there (or at most came late, to explain his footprints and DNA).
And see the really big problem for Knox? She says she went out from Sollecito's place on the night - and quite specifically says he did not come along.
4. Dr Mignini's View On Cassation Ruling
Dr Mignini has several times observed that Cassation misunderstood that Knox herself had insisted on all three statements, ignoring advice he and investigators gave her.
But he did not think it was a make-or-break issue, and to him Cassation is almost invariable respectful and benign. And many Italian legal precedents say yes, in those circumstances those statements really should have been permitted exhibits at the main trial.
5. Now Sollecito Team Agrees With Mignini
1) Read the excellent new report by Andrea Vogt here (her Update of 19 June 2014) which in part quotes the Sollecito appeal saying this:
"The trials lacked an adequate review of the "individual" role of Sollecito, generating instead a sense of his guilt due to… a "confession" made by her, which never mentioned him at the scene of the crime. 1a) That declaration should be used as a favourable element showing Sollecito was not at the scene of the crime, not as a piece of evidence that confirms his guilt.
2) Also read the new report by Barbie Nadeau here [with the caution by Popper in Comments below] which in part says this.
Now, for the first time in this seven-year long, painfully epic case, Sollecito wants to be judged independently from Knox—if not on the case as a whole, at least on the issue of the so-called "false confession."
6. Sollecito's Statement Early 6 November 2007
Perugia Police Headquarters
Flying Squad General Affairs Area.
SUBJECT: Witness statement of person informed of the facts given by SOLLECITO Raffaele, already identified.
On November 5th 2007 at 22:40 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Perugia Police Headquarters. Before the undersigned of the Criminal Investigation Dept. Deputy Commissioner MONICA NAPOLEONI, Chief Inspector Antonio FACCHINI Vice Superintendent of Police Daniele MOSCATELLI, Assistant Chief Ettore FUOCO is present the above-mentioned who, to supplement the declarations made [November] in these Offices, in regards to the facts being investigated, declares as follows: [*A.D.R. = Question Answer = QA]
QA I have known Amanda for about two weeks. From the night that I met her she started sleeping at my house. On November 1st, I woke up at around 11, I had breakfast with Amanda then she went out and I went back to bed. Then around 13:00-14:00 I met her at her house again. Meredith was there too. Amanda and I had lunch while Meredith did not have lunch with us.
QA Around 16:00 Meredith left in a hurry without saying where she was going. Amanda and I stayed home until about 17:30-18:00.
QA We left the house, we went into town, but I don't remember what we did.
QA We stayed there from 18:00 until 20:30/21:00. At 21:00 I went home alone because Amanda told me that she was going to go to the pub Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends.
QA At this point we said goodbye and I headed home while she headed towards the center.
QA I went home alone, sat at the computer and rolled myself a spliff. Surely I had dinner but I don't remember what I ate. Around 23:00 my father called at my home number 075.9660789. During that time I remember Amanda had not come back yet.
QA I browsed at my computer for another two hours after my father's phone call and only stopped when Amanda came back presumably around 1:00.
QA I don't remember how she was dressed and if she was dressed the same way as when we said goodbye before dinner.
QA I don't remember if we had sex that night.
QA The following morning around 10:00 we woke up, she told me she wanted to go home and take a shower and change clothes.
QA In fact at around 10:30 she went out and I went back to sleep. When she went out that morning to go to her house, Amanda also took an empty bag telling me she needed it for dirty clothes.
QA At around 11:30 she came back home and I remember she had changed clothes; she had her usual bag with her.
QA I don't know the contents of her bag.
QA I remember we immediately went to the kitchen, we sat down and talked for a while, perhaps we had breakfast. In that circumstance Amanda told me that when she got to her house she found the entrance door wide open and some traces of blood in the small bathroom and she asked me if it sounded strange. I answered that it did and I also advised her to call her housemates. She said she had called Filomena but that Meredith was not answering.
QA At around 12:00 we left the house; passing through Corso Garibaldi we arrived in Piazza Grimana, then we went through the Sant' Antonio parking lot and reached Amanda's house. To walk there it took us about 10 minutes.
QA As soon as we got there she opened the door with her keys, I went in and I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open with some glass on the floor and her room was in a complete mess. The door to Amanda's room was open and I noticed that it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked. Before this I looked to see if it was true what Amanda had told me about the blood in the bathroom and I noticed drops of blood in the sink, while on the mat there was something strange - a mixture of blood and water, while the rest of the bathroom was clean.
QA I went to the kitchen and saw that everything was in order, then went around the rest of the house, I went to Laura's room and noticed it was tidy. In that moment Amanda went inside the big bathroom, next to the kitchen and came out frightened and hugging me tight telling me that earlier, when she took the shower, she had seen feces inside the toilet, while now the toilet was clean. QA I just took a rapid glance at the bathroom trusting what Amanda had told me.
QA At that point I was asking myself what could have happened and I went out to find Meredith's window to see if I could climb to it. I went outside with Amanda and she tried to climb to it, I immediately stopped her telling her to not do it because it was dangerous. I then told Amanda that the best solution was to break down the door, I tried to kick it and shoulder it open but I didn't manage to open it. Then I called my sister on her cellphone and asked her what I should do since she is a Carabinieri lieutenant. My sister told me to call the Carabinieri (112, the Italian emergency number), which I did, but in the meantime the Postal Police showed up.
QA In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies. I heard the first statements that she made to the Postal Police who intervened at the place.
QA She always carried a big bag that she also had the night of November 1st.
The investigating officials acknowledge that the deposition ends at 3:30 (AM) of November 6th 2007.
7. Our Analysis Of What RS Signed
Chimera (who is currently working on identifying all of the lies in Amanda Knox's book) offers these notes.
QA Around 16:00 Meredith left in a hurry without saying where she was going. Amanda and I stayed home until about 17:30-18:00.
QA We left the house, we went into town, but I don't remember what we did.
Really? Some alibi.
QA We stayed there from 18:00 until 20:30/21:00. At 21:00 I went home alone because Amanda told me that she was going to go to the pub Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends.
QA At this point we said goodbye and I headed home while she headed towards the center.
In both books, you and Amanda claimed to have spent the evening together.
QA I went home alone, sat at the computer and rolled myself a spliff. Surely I had dinner but I don't remember what I ate. Around 23:00 my father called at my home number 075.9660789. During that time I remember Amanda had not come back yet.
You don't remember what you ate, yet both you and Amanda remember vividly the pipe leaking, although you contradict each other on if it happened before.
QA I browsed at my computer for another two hours after my father's phone call and only stopped when Amanda came back presumably around 1:00.
A false claim: In both books, Knox and Sollecito admitted they turned the phones off
- (a) In Honor Bound, Sollecito says the phones were turned off so they could fool around undisturbed.
(b) In Waiting to be Heard, Knox says she turned her phone off so Patrick couldn't text back if he changed his mind about her working.
(c) In the December 2007 questioning, Knox says she turned her phone off because it had a limited charge, and she didn't want to drain it prior to the Gubbio trip.
(d) In the trial, defence lawyers spent much time disputing that the phones were ever turned off.
A false claim: It was shown that the computers were not active. Sollecito also claimed to be emailing many people. Odd, as this would be a solid alibi ....
- (a) Not a single person came forward to say that they received anything from Raffaele.
(b) Raffaele doesn't name a single person that he emailed.
(c) Not a single sent email was ever traced to his computer at that time period.
QA I don't remember how she was dressed and if she was dressed the same way as when we said goodbye before dinner.
(Unless the police specifically asked him this), why would Raffy bring up Amanda's clothes? Were they blood soaked?
QA I don't remember if we had sex that night.
You were a virgin until Amanda, and you don't remember having sex?
QA The following morning around 10:00 we woke up, she told me she wanted to go home and take a shower and change clothes.
QA In fact at around 10:30 she went out and I went back to sleep. When she went out that morning to go to her house, Amanda also took an empty bag telling me she needed it for dirty clothes.
QA At around 11:30 she came back home and I remember she had changed clothes; she had her usual bag with her.
You remember the bag in clear detail, but not if you had sex?
In Knox's statement (one of them), she says she doesn't remember if she read or made love, but in WTBH, insists they slept together.
QA I remember we immediately went to the kitchen, we sat down and talked for a while, perhaps we had breakfast. In that circumstance Amanda told me that when she got to her house she found the entrance door wide open and some traces of blood in the small bathroom and she asked me if it sounded strange. I answered that it did and I also advised her to call her housemates. She said she had called Filomena but that Meredith was not answering.
Amanda asks you if finding blood is strange?
You immediately went into the kitchen and talked, but don't remember having breakfast?
Funny, why not mention the mop?
QA As soon as we got there she opened the door with her keys, I went in and I noticed that Filomena's door was wide open with some glass on the floor and her room was in a complete mess. The door to Amanda's room was open and I noticed that it was tidy. Then I went towards Meredith's door and saw that it was locked. Before this I looked to see if it was true what Amanda had told me about the blood in the bathroom and I noticed drops of blood in the sink, while on the mat there was something strange - a mixture of blood and water, while the rest of the bathroom was clean.
QA I went to the kitchen and saw that everything was in order, then went around the rest of the house, I went to Laura's room and noticed it was tidy. In that moment Amanda went inside the big bathroom, next to the kitchen and came out frightened and hugging me tight telling me that earlier, when she took the shower, she had seen feces inside the toilet, while now the toilet was clean.
QA I just took a rapid glance at the bathroom trusting what Amanda had told me.
Is this normal in Italy for people to not flush smelly toilets, or just these two?
You noticed Filomena's door was open and was a complete mess, but you didn't notice the broken window coming in?
And at what point did you ''realize'' or ''conclude'' nothing had been taken?
You noticed blood in the sink, but on the bathmat, was it an ''orange'' like described in WTBH? Or more like a footprint?
But in your recent Porta a Porta interview, did you not tell Bruno Vespa that Amanda didn't even mention the blood?
QA At that point I was asking myself what could have happened and I went out to find Meredith's window to see if I could climb to it. I went outside with Amanda and she tried to climb to it, I immediately stopped her telling her to not do it because it was dangerous. I then told Amanda that the best solution was to break down the door, I tried to kick it and shoulder it open but I didn't manage to open it. Then I called my sister on her cellphone and asked her what I should do since she is a Carabinieri lieutenant. My sister told me to call the Carabinieri (112, the Italian emergency number), which I did, but in the meantime the Postal Police showed up.
This might have been plausible except for that ''minor'' detail, of Amanda telling the postal police Meredith locking her door was no big deal.
And that ''minor'' detail, that phone records show the call was made well after the Postal Police arrived.
QA In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies. I heard the first statements that she made to the Postal Police who intervened at the place.
QA She always carried a big bag that she also had the night of November 1st.
You are asked about inconsistencies in your alibi, and your immediate response is to say Amanda told you rubbish?
You told the police first that you were at a party with Amanda, then a story that you were together at your place. Now you say it is rubbish, and you were on your computer (even though that was proven false). At the Massei trial you stay silent, at the Hellmann appeal and your book tour you say you were together. Later, at the July 2014 press conference, and February 2015 Porta a Porta interview you say Amanda was with you in the evening, but not the night.
You didn't see the inconsistencies? It is Amanda's fault you keep changing your story?
In your book ''Honor'' Bound, you complain that if ''... we, [You or Amanda], deviated one iota from the version you broadly agreed on, it could mean a life sentence for both of you''. Gee, nice proofreading job, Gumbel.
You tell the police that Amanda always carried a big bag? Really ''Honor Bound'' aren't we? That bag has never been found and Knox has never explained where it is. Knox might have carried a large knife in it, and bloody items the other way. No wonder she ''broke up with you''.
So, this is the first whack you'll take at Amanda? Let's just hope she doesn't retaliate by making up some story about you having ''fish blood'' on your hand.
Conclusions: I think this statement alone is enough to render most of his book total B.S, not that there isn't a lot more to do so too.
Archived in The former defendants, Amanda Knox, Officially involved, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, The many hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
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Wednesday, June 18, 2014
Legal Nightmare For Knox: How Tough American Laws Could Wind Back Blood-Money Profits & Spendings
Posted by The TJMK Main Posters
The 40-Plus State Son-of-Sam Laws
David Berkowitz or Son-of-Sam as he called himself during his killing spree is a convicted American serial killer. Watch a documentary at bottom here.
In New York State (where Knox's publisher is) and Washington State (where Knox herself is) and about 40 other American states Son-of-Sam has a much-exercised and now rarely-challenged law named after him.
After early challenges and some revisions, many of those State Son-of-Sam laws continue to be strengthened and almost all are enforced regularly. From Wikipedia:
A Son of Sam law is any American law designed to keep criminals from profiting from the publicity of their crimes, often by selling their stories to publishers… Son of Sam laws are designed so that criminals are unable to take advantage of the notoriety of their crimes. Such laws often authorize the state to seize money earned from deals such as book/movie biographies and paid interviews and use it to compensate the criminal's victims…
In certain cases a Son of Sam law can be extended beyond the criminals themselves to include friends, neighbors, and family members of the lawbreaker who seek to profit by telling publishers and filmmakers of their relation to the criminal. In other cases, a person may not financially benefit from the sale of a story or any other mementos pertaining to the crime—if the criminal was convicted after the date lawmakers passed the law in the states where the crime was committed.
Son-of-Sam Laws In The News
The Son-of-Sam laws are in the American news almost daily. See these for example:
- Here is an article about the admitted killer Jodi Arias who could have otherwise been in line to profit from a movie showing her killing of her former lover Travis Alexander from her point-of-view.
- Here is an article about the former university football coach and male rapist Jerry Sandusky who may be writing a book to benefit himself and his family.
- Here is an article about OJ Simpson, the former footballer and convicted killer of his wife and one other, who is essentially in prison now for trying to circumvent a Son-of-Sam law mandating payments to the families of his victims.
How Son-of-Sam Laws Work
Here from the Criminal Lawyers website is a generic description of how such State laws work.
Each state's law is different, but here some of the things you may see in any particular Son of Sam law:
What's covered? Practically just about anything a criminal defendant might gain or profit from his crime. Some state laws generally define "profit from crime." For example, a law may state it's "any property obtained through or income generated from the commission of a crime." Other states are very specific and may, for example, state "profit of crime" is money or other property with value a defendant may receive for a book, movie, television show, play or newspaper article about the defendant and his crimes.
Who's covered? In some states, only the criminal defendant is covered. In other states, members of his family are covered, too. They may be related by blood or by "affinity" or kinship, such as a spouse or father-in-law. The idea is to make sure a family member doesn't get the money and hold it for the defendant.
Payment. Most states require the person paying the defendant - the book publisher, movie producer, etc. - to pay the money directly to a court or special state agency, like the state's Crime Victims Assistance agency. The money is held in a special account for the crime's victims.
Getting the money to the victims. In most states, once money is deposited, the court or the state agency in charge of the money notifies victims the money is available. In other states, the person or company paying the defendant must notify victims. Either way, victims are usually notified by ads or "legal notices" in local newspapers where the crime was committed. It's also possible the names of specific victims may be found in the court records connected to the case, and those victims may get personal notification, such as by mail.
Ten Grave Weaknesses In Knox's Position
Under these 40-plus Son-of-Sam state laws Amanda Knox and her agents appear to be in an extremely weak legal position. Here are 10 reasons.
- 1) Knox was confirmed convicted without further recourse by the Italian Supreme Court of calunnia (against Patrick Lumumba) in March 2013 and she was also provisionally confirmed guilty of murder and other crimes when her appeal before the Florence Appeal Court failed six months ago.
2) That final false-accusation conviction occurred prior to Knox's book Waiting To Be Heard being released. The British and Italian arms of the publishers, HarperCollins, refused to release the book in the UK and Italy, citing major legal liabilities. The New York based HarperCollins publishers and therefore Knox herself knew that there were very serious legal questions.
3) Amanda Knox was represented by Washington DC lawyer and book agent Robert Barnett who touted the book to various publishers for a claimed $4 million. If Robert Barnett was misled as to the truth of the book, Knox may find herself kicked under the bus by him. If he was not misled, he too is entangled.
4) Knox's book (available globally via Amazon Kindle) includes many serious misstatements on (among other things) the nature of her false-accusation crime, the nature of her police discussion on 5-6 November 2007, and the real reason for her felony conviction and sentence.
5) Knox also misstated the nature of her false-accusation crime, the nature of her police discussion on 5-6 November 2007, and the real reason for her felony defamation conviction in (a) an arrogant email to Judge Nencini at the Florence appeal and (b) an arrogant press release after the judge's sentencing report was released.
6) Knox appears to have misstated the nature of her false-accusation crime, the nature of her police discussion on 5-6 November 2007, and the real reason for her conviction in a submission to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg. She also uses those false claims for her continued refusal to pay damages to Patrick.
7) Large numbers of opportunists appear to have directly profited. While we don't know for sure, it seems Knox blood-money may have been used (a) to pay off her parents' legal debts; (b) to pay her Italian and American lawyers; (b) to pay David Marriott's public relations outfit; (d) to pay travel to Seattle and other expenses for some of her wackiest supporters, Sforza and Fischer included. Fees for abusive work by many in online support of Knox are rumored
8) We have repeatedly been told that any media request for access to Sollecito or Knox results in a greedy hand being stretched out. Any media who paid anything to Knox or her family (CNN? ABC? CBS? The Guardian? Oggi?) for access since 2007 could be seriously vulnerable.
9) Knox will face a new trial in Italy in due course for numerous new felony accusations in the book, including a very serious false charge against Dr Mignini. Also she and her followers are widely on record as disrespecting and harrassing the real victim and her ailing family.
10) And a mandatory Son-of-Sam Law investigation by State Attorney Generals can be triggered in over 40 American states via a simple report from a citizen. The Italian Government could also trigger such a criminal investigation.
And Amanda Knox still has her greedy paw out for contributions. See her highly misleading website. Tread warily, folks. Up to 40-plus investigators could come calling at your door…
Early Death To Any Political Support
American politicians almost all favor the Son-of-Sam Laws. The thought of a convicted killer profiting is something almost 100% of American voters wont tolerate. Anything that encourages crimes and the flouting of laws is a really big American no-no.
And if Knox is trying to assemble any bought-and-paid-for political support to resist extradition, such political support will dissipate in a heartbeat when Son-of-Sam again rears his head.
Not a very nice slippery slope for Knox. On multiple counts she looks like a sure-fire loser.
Archived in The former defendants, Amanda Knox, Officially involved, Other legal processes, Others elsewhere, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The many hoaxes, The wider contexts, American context
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Thursday, June 12, 2014
Fifty Of The Most Common Myths Still Promoted Without Legal Restraint By The Knox PR Campaign
Posted by The Machine
Fooled ya! Knox's parents have the mythmaking machine's pedal to the floor, and arent slowing it
I've listed the 50 most common myths circulating in the media with regard to the Amanda Knox/Meredith Kercher case and refuted them using as far as possible the official court documents and court testimony.
1. Knox was called to the Perugia central police station on 5 November 2007.
Neither the police nor the prosecutors brought Knox in for questioning on 5 November 2007. She was there unwanted, and stayed after it was suggested she go home and sleep.
Amanda Knox herself testified in court that she wasn't called to come to the police station on 5 November 2007.
Carlo Pacelli: "For what reason did you go to the Questura on November 5? Were you called?"
Amanda Knox: "No, I wasn't called. I went with Raffaele because I didn't want to be alone."
Monica Napoleoni, the head of Perugia's homicide squad, said they told Knox she should go home to rest, but Knox insisted on staying:
Amanda also came that evening, the evening of the 5th. We said to Amanda that she could go home to rest. Since, during those days, she was always saying, always complaining that she wanted to rest, wanted to eat, we said: 'Look, you've eaten; you can go and rest yourself. If there's a need, we'll call you.'
Instead, she was very nervous, and insisted on staying there.
Inspector Rita Ficarra was the one who led the discussion on a list of possible perps with Knox.
Rita Ficarra: My astonishment was that I saw, I found her there, and I found her doing – demonstrating – her gymnastic abilities: she was doing a cartwheel; she had shown the back arch, she had done the splits, and it seemed to me, sincerely, a bit out of place, that is to say given the circumstances, the moment and the place. For which [reason] I admonished her, and I even asked her what she was doing there.
She, and my colleagues also confirmed this, said to me that she had come because they had called Raffaele Sollecito, he had been invited that evening to give another recap, and she had accompanied him.
Judge Massei [GCM]: You said this to her in English or in Italian?
RF: In Italian. I reiterate that she speaks Italian, with me she speaks only in Italian. I do not understand a word of English, so … My colleagues confirm that there was Sollecito who was there in another room and in that moment the Deputy Commissioner Napoleoni and other colleagues were listening to him.
And continuing to speak, the girl told me that she was rather shocked at the fact, annoyed at the fact that she had been called and recalled several times by the Police and [that] she was totally tired.
At that point, I also admonished her because I said: you're tired, yet nonetheless you came this evening, when nobody has invited you: you could have gone to rest. And furthermore – I said – you don't understand that we are talking about a murder, of a person that you say was your friend, [who] lived in the same house as you, it happened in your house. If the Police call you, put yourself in our shoes: we need useful information.
2. Knox was subjected to an all-night interrogation on 5/6 November.
According to Barbie Nadeau in The Daily Beast, Amanda Knox's questioning began at about 11:00pm.
"Since Knox was already at the police station [in the company of Raffaele Sollecito], the head of the murder squad decided to ask her a few questions. Her interrogation started at about 11pm."
After Amanda Knox had made her witness statement at 1:45am, she wasn't questioned again that evening. She decided to made another witness statement at 5:45am, but she wasn't asked any questions.
3. Knox wasn't provided with an interpreter for her questioning on 5 November 2007.
This claim is completely false as shown through the trial testimony of Knox and her interpreter. Knox's interpreter on 5 November 2007, Anna Donnino, testified at length at trial about Knox's convesrsation that evening. And Amanda Knox herself spoke about her interpreter when she later gave testimony at the trial.
4. Knox wasn't given anything to eat or drink.
Reported by Richard Owen, in The Times, 1 March 2009:
Ms Napoleoni told the court that while she was at the police station Ms Knox had been 'treated very well. She was given water, chamomile tea and breakfast. She was given cakes from a vending machine and then taken to the canteen at the police station for something to eat.'
Also reported by Richard Owen, in The Times, 15 March 2009:
Ms Donnino said that Ms Knox had been 'comforted' by police, given food and drink, and had at no stage been hit or threatened.
John Follain in his book Death in Perugia, page 134, also reports that Knox was given food and drink during her questioning:
During the questioning, detectives repeatedly went to fetch her a snack, water, and hot drinks, including chamomile tea.
This is from the relevant court transcript:
Monica Napoleoni: Amanda was given something to drink several times. She was brought hot chamomile; she was taken to the bar of the Questura to eat. First she was given brioches from the little [vending] machine.
Carlo Pacelli: These methods of treatment, how did they translate into practice? With what behaviour/actions [were they carried out] in actual fact? Earlier, you recalled that they actually brought her something to eat…
MN: It's true. That morning, I remember that Inspector Ficarra actually took her to the bar to eat as soon as it opened. But before [that], we have little [vending] machines on the ground floor, and she was brought water, she was brought hot drinks, she was brought a snack. But also Raffaele, he was given something to drink; it's not as though they were kept … absolutely.
Giuliano Mignini: Had types of comfort been offered to her?
Anna Donnino: Well, during the evening, yes, in the sense that I remember that someone went down to the ground floor; it was the middle of the night, so in the station at that hour there are those automatic distributors; there's nothing else; someone went to the ground floor and brought everybody something to drink, some hot drinks and something to eat. I myself had a coffee, so I believe that she also had something.
Above: Several of the myth inventors and disseminators: Sforza, Mellas, Preston
5. Knox was beaten by the police.
The witnesses who were present when Knox was questioned, including her interpreter, testified under oath at the trial in 2009 that she wasn't hit. (Under Italian law, witnesses must testify under oath, while defendants do not, so are not required by law to be truthful on the stand.)
These are from the relevant court transcripts:
Giuliano Mignini: Do you recall, shall we say, that night between the 1st and then the spontaneous declarations and then the order for arrest, who and what was with her, other than you, whether there were other subjects that spoke with us, how they behaved? Did [she] undergo/experience violent [sic: NdT: "violente" in Italian, probably typo for "violenze" = "violence/force/assault"] by any chance?
Rita Ficarra: Absolutely not.
GM: Was she intimidated, threatened?
RF: No. I, as I said earlier, I came in that evening and there were some colleagues from the Rome SCO, I was with Inspector Fausto Passeri, then I saw come out, that is come out from the entry-door to the offices of the Flying [Squad] the Assistant Zugarini and Monica Napoleoni, who appeared for an instant just outside there, then we went back in calmly, because the discussion we had with her was quite calm.
Giuliano Mignini: ... violence, of …
Monica Napoleoni: But absolutely not!
Mignini: You remember it… you've described it; however, I'll ask it. Was she threatened? Did she suffer any beatings?
Anna Donnino: Absolutely not.
GM: She suffered maltreatments?
AD: Absolutely not.
Carlo Pacelli: In completing and consolidating in cross-examination the questions by the public prosecutor, I refer to the morning of the 6th of November, to the time when Miss Knox had made her summary information. In that circumstance, Miss Knox was struck on the head with punches and slaps?
Anna Donnino: Absolutely not.
CP: In particular, was she struck on the head by a police woman?
AD: Absolutely not!
CP: Miss Knox was, however, threatened?
AD: No, I can exclude that categorically!
CP: With thirty years of prison… ?
AD: No, no, absolutely not.
CP: Was she, however, sworn at, in the sense that she was told she was a liar?
AD: I was in the room the whole night, and I saw nothing of all this.
CP: So the statements that had been made had been made spontaneously, voluntarily?
AD: Yes.
Carlo Della Valla: This…
Giancarlo Massei: Pardon, but let's ask questions… if you please.
CP: You were also present then during the summary informations made at 5:45?
AD: Yes.
CP: And were they done in the same way and methods as those of 1:45?
AD: I would say yes. Absolutely yes.
CP: To remove any shadow of doubt from this whole matter, as far as the summary information provided at 5:45 Miss Knox was struck on the head with punches and slaps?
AD: No.
CP: In particular, was she struck on the head by a policewoman?
AD: No.
Even Amanda Knox's lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, distanced himself in the Italian media from these allegations and never lodged any complaint:
There were pressures from the police, but we never said she was hit.
6. Knox was refused a lawyer.
Rita Ficarra and Anna Donnino testified that Knox was several times advised to have a lawyer, but each she declined the offer:
Anna Donnino: ...she was asked if she wanted a lawyer.
Giuliano Mignini: And what was her response?
AD: She had answered no; I remember that she replied with no.
Before she insisted on drafting her 1:45 and 5:45 am accusations Knox was advised to have a lawyer advise her, but she declined and pressed on.
Dr Mignini has wondered if the Supreme Court really understood this in banning the two unprovoked accusations from Knox's main trial.
7. Knox was tag-teamed by two police officers every hour.
According to Anna Donnino, who arrived at the police station at about 12:30am, there was a total of three people in the room with Knox:
Anna Donnino: "I had been made to enter a room where in fact there was Inspector Ficarra at a small table, another colleague from SCO (I only remember his first name; he was called Ivano), a police officer, and there was Miss Knox seated. I seated myself beside her."
Above: Several of the main myth inventors and disseminators: Fischer, Sforza, Moore
8. Knox was asked to imagine what might have happened.
According to the corroborative testimony of the three others present, including Rita Ficarra and Anna Donnino, Amanda Knox voluntarily and spontaneously accused Patrick Lumumba of murdering Meredith.
Here is Rita Ficarra.
We found only that one [text message] sent by her. She was given the mobile into her hand, and it was said, who is this person, and did you go out later or not? She said the name of Patrick Lumumba, and gave the declaration that then ...
GM: And what behaviour did she then adopt/assume?
RF: She suddenly put her hands to her head, burst out crying and said to us "It's him, it's him, it was him, he killed her". It was the only time that I saw her cry.
GM: This behaviour, did she then continue like that during the course of that morning, by now we were at what time?...
RF: No, she was as if she was giving vent in that moment, she cried, she began to say that he was crazy, he was crazy.
Here is Anna Donnino:
Judge Massei: This change, at what moment did it happen, and in what did it consist of?
Anna Donnono: The change had occurred right after this message, in the sense that the signorina said she hadn't replied to the message from Patrick, when instead her reply message was shown to her she had a true and proper emotional shock. It's a thing that has remained very strongly with me because the first thing that she did is that she immediately puts her hands on her ears, making this gesture rolling her head, curving in her shoulders also and saying "It's him! It's him! It was him! I can see/hear him or: I know it.[Lo sento]" and so on and so forth.
Carlo Pacelli: So the statements that had been made had been made spontaneously, voluntarily?
Anna Donnino: Yes.
Here is Judge Massei.
[After hearing and weighing up the testimony of these witnesses and Amanda Knox, Judge Massei stated that it couldn't be claimed that] "Amanda Knox was persuaded by the investigators to accuse Diya Lumumba, aka Patrick, by means of various pressing requests which she could not resist." (Massei report, page 388.)
[He noted that there had been] "no corroboration of the pressing requests which Amanda was seemingly subjected to in order to accuse Diya Lumumba of the crime committed to the detriment of Meredith." (Massei report, page 389.)
Judge Massei concluded at trial in 2009 that Knox had freely accused Patrick Lumumba of Meredith's murder and awarded her a prison sentence for calunnia confirmed in 2013 by the Supreme Court for which there is no further appeal.
9. Amanda Knox claimed she had had a "dream-like vision" in her witness statements.
Amanda Knox makes no mention of a dream or vision in her two witness statements. She categorically states that she met Diya Lumumba at Piazza Grimana and that they went to the cottage on Via della Pergola. In her first witness statement, she claims that Lumumba killed Meredith.
This is from the 1:45 am statement.
I responded to the message by telling him that we would see each other at once; I then left the house, telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work. In view of the fact that during the afternoon I had smoked a joint, I felt confused, since I do not frequently make use of mind-altering substances, nor of heavier substances.
I met Patrik immediately afterward, at the basketball court on Piazza Grimana, and together we went [to my] home. I do not recall whether Meredith was there or arrived afterward. I struggle to remember those moments, but Patrik had sex with Meredith, with whom he was infatuated, but I do not recall whether Meredith had been threatened beforehand. I recall confusedly that he killed her.
This is from the 5:45 am statement.
I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick… I met him in the evening of November 1st 2007, after sending him a reply message saying "I will see you". We met soon after at about 21.00 at the basketball court of Piazza Grimana. We went to my apartment in Via della Pergola n. 7.
I do not clearly remember if Meredith was already at home or if she came later, what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith's room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. I cannot remember how long they stayed together in the room but I can only say that at a certain point I heard Meredith screaming and as I was scared I plugged up my ears.
10. Amanda Knox was questioned in Italian
The police provided Amanda Knox with an interpreter, Anna Donnino, so that she could be questioned in English.
11. Dr Mignini questioned Knox on 5 November 2007.
Dr Mignini did not question Amanda Knox that evening. She wanted to make further declarations, and he came to the police station on the night only because he was on duty and had to witness Knox being cautioned. After Knox was cautioned that she need not say anything without a lawyer, Knox nevertheless insisted that she draft a second statement in front of him.
Mr Mignini explained what happened in his e-mail letter to Linda Byron, a journalist for King5 in Seattle:
All I did was to apply the Italian law to the proceedings. I really cannot understand any problem.
In the usual way, Knox was first heard by the police as a witness, but when some essential elements of her involvement with the murder surfaced, the police suspended the interview, according to article 63 of the penal-proceedings code.
But Knox then decided to render spontaneous declarations that I took up without any further questioning, which is entirely lawful.
According to article 374 of the penal-proceedings code, suspects must be assisted by a lawyer only during a formal interrogation, and when being notified of alleged crimes and questioned by a prosecutor or judge, not when they intend to render unsolicited declarations.
Since I didn't do anything other than to apply the Italian law applicable to both matters, I am unable to understand the objections and reservations which you are talking about."
In Amanda Knox's written witness statement, she explicitly states that she's making a spontaneous declaration:
I wish to relate spontaneously what happened because these events have deeply bothered me and I am really afraid of Patrick, the African boy who owns the pub called Le Chic located in Via Alessi, where I work periodically.
12. Knox didn't confess until 6am.
Amanda Knox's first written statement was made at 1:45am. It was not a confession, it was a false accusation.
13. Knox retracted her allegation against Lumumba immediately.
Amanda Knox didn't retract her accusation immediately. In fact, she never did formally. Knox reiterated her allegation in her handwritten note to the police late morning of 6 November 2007, which was admitted in evidence: From the Massei report:
[Amanda] herself, furthermore, in the statement of 6 November 2007 (admitted into evidence ex. articles 234 and 237 of the Criminal Procedure Code and which was mentioned above) wrote, among other things, the following:
I stand by my [accusatory] statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrick…in these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer…
This statement was that specified in the notes of 6 November 2007, at 20:00, by Police Chief Inspector Rita Ficarra, and was drawn up following the notification of the detention measure, by Amanda Knox, who "requested blank papers in order to produce a written statement to hand over" to the same Ficarra. (Massei report, page 389.)
Knox did not withdraw the false accusation at her first hearing in front of a magistrate on 8 November.
The Massei court took note of the fact that Amanda Knox didn't recant her false and malicious allegation against Diya Lumumba during the entire time, two weeks, he was kept in prison.
14. In the days following Meredith's murder, Knox voluntarily stayed in Perugia to help the police
This claim is contradicted by Amanda Knox herself. In the e-mail she wrote to her friends in Seattle on 4 November 2007 she categorically stated she was not allowed to leave Italy:
"i then bought some underwear because as it turns out i wont be able to leave italy for a while as well as enter my house"
Knox actually knew on 2 November 2007 that she couldn't leave Italy. Amy Frost, a friend of Meredith, reported the following conversation (Massei report, page 37):
"I remember having heard Amanda speaking on the phone. I think that she was talking to a member of her family, and I heard her say, 'No, they won't let me go home; I can't catch that flight.' "
15. All of Meredith's friends left immediately.
The police also told Sophie Purton that they needed her to stay on in Perugia on precisely the same basis as Amanda Knox. Sophie had been counting on leaving Perugia to fly back home as soon as her parents arrived, but the police called to tell her they needed her to stay on; they would let her know when she could leave. Her father stayed on with her.
In chapter 19 of Death in Perugia John Follain states that Sophie Purton was questioned by Mignini and Napoleoni in the prosecutor's office on 5 November 2007.
16. There were only two tiny pieces of DNA evidence that implicated her, but they were probably contaminated.
The Italian Supreme Court explained how DNA evidence should be assessed in court; i.e., contamination must be proven with certainty, not supposition. The Court stated that the theory "anything is possible" in genetic testing is not valid.
The burden of proof is on the person who asserts contamination, not the person who denies it.
In other words, if the defence lawyers claim the DNA evidence was contaminated, they must describe the specific place and time where it could have plausibly occurred. Nobody has ever proved that the bra clasp and knife evidence were contaminated. Even Conti and Vecchiotti excluded contamination in the laboratory:
"Laboratory contamination was also excluded by these experts [Conti and Vecchiotti]." (The Supreme Court report, page 92.)
(1) The bra clasp
The fact that the bra clasp was not collected immediately because defense witnesses were not available is irrelevant. The cottage was a sealed crime scene and nobody entered the room during this time:
...the flat had been sealed and nobody had had the opportunity to enter, as shown in the case file." (The Italian Supreme Court report, page 92.)
Alberto Intini, the head of the Italian police forensic science unit, excluded environmental contamination because "DNA doesn't fly."
Even Conti and Vecchiotti excluded contamination in the laboratory because Dr Stefanoni last handled Sollecito's DNA twelve days before she analysed the bra clasp.
Professor Francesca Torricelli testified that it was unlikely the clasp was contaminated because there was a significant amount of Sollecito's DNA on it. His DNA was identified by two separate DNA tests. Of the 17 loci tested in the sample, Sollecito's profile matched 17 out of 17.
David Balding, a Professor of Statistical Genetics at University College London, analysed the DNA evidence against Sollecito and concluded that the evidence was strong"
"…because Sollecito is fully represented in the stain at 15 loci (we still only use 10 in the UK, so 15 is a lot), the evidence against him is strong…"
(2) The knife
Dr Stefanoni analysed the traces on the knife six days after last handling Meredith's DNA. This means that contamination couldn't have occurred in the laboratory. Meredith had never been to Sollecito's apartment, so contamination away from the laboratory was impossible.
The knife and bra clasp are not the only pieces of DNA evidence.
According to the prosecution's experts, there were five samples of Knox's DNA or blood mixed with Meredith's blood in three different locations in the cottage. After the trial in 2009, The Kerchers' lawyer, Francesco Maresca, said the mixed-blood evidence was the most damning piece of evidence against Amanda Knox.
The Scientific Police experts concluded it proves that Meredith and Knox were bleeding at the same time.
17. The knife has essentially been thrown out.
The knife hasn't been thrown out. A further DNA sample (36-I) was extracted from the blade last year and tested by the Carabinieri RIS DNA experts Major Berti and Captain Barni. The sample was attributed to Amanda Knox, the second. Judge Nencini stated in his report that Knox stabbed Meredith with the knife.
Above: Several of the myth inventors and disseminators: Hampikian, Burleigh, Heavey
18. The knife doesn't match any of the wounds on Meredith's body.
The prosecution experts, multiple defence experts and Judge Massei in his report have all agreed that the double DNA knife DID match the large wound on Meredith's neck.
"On these matters, the considerations already made must be recalled which led this Court to evaluate the outcome of the genetic investigation as reliable, and this knife as absolutely compatible with the most serious wound." (Massei report, page 375.)
Barbie Nadeau, an American journalist based in Rome, reported directly from the courtroom in Perugia that multiple witnesses for the defence, including Dr. Carlo Torre, conceded that the double DNA knife was compatible with the deep puncture wound in Meredith's neck.
According to multiple witnesses for the defense, the knife is compatible with at least one of the three wounds on Kercher's neck, but it was likely too large for the other two. (Barbie Nadeau, Newsweek.)
He (Dr. Carlo Torre, defence expert) conceded that a third larger wound could have been made with the knife, but said it was more likely it was made by twisting a smaller knife. (Barbie Nadeau, The Daily Beast.)
19. The DNA on the blade could match half the population of Italy.
Vieri Fabani, a lawyer for the Kerchers, pointed out that there is the possibility of 1 in 1 billion 300 million that the DNA on the blade does not belong to Meredith.
20. Meredith's DNA wasn't found on the blade of the knife.
A number of independent forensic experts—Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni, Dr. Renato Biondo, Professor Giuseppe Novelli, Professor Francesca Torricelli and Luciano Garofano—have all confirmed that sample 36B was Meredith's DNA.
Even American experts Elizabeth Johnson, Greg Hampikian and Bruce Budowle, who have been critical of the Scientific Police's work in this case, have conceded that the DNA was consistent with Meredith's DNA profile.
It should be noted that none of these American experts testified at the trial or played any official role in the case. They became involved in the case after being approached by supporters of Amanda Knox. They had no bearing on the legal proceedings in Florence.
Judge Nencini accepted that Judge's Massei and the prosecution's assertions that Meredith's DNA was on the blade of Sollecito's kitchen knife and that it was the murder weapon.
21. No other knives were taken from Sollecito's apartment.
Judge Massei discusses a jack-knife that was 18cm long with an 8cm blade at some length and the results of the DNA tests that were carried out on it:
"He [Armando Finzi] recalled they found another knife whose total length was 18cm, with an 8cm blade…" (Massei report, page 106.)
"On the jack‑knife, four samples were taken, with negative results where blood-derived substances had been looked for; on the fourth sample, which involved the handle, the genetic profile was found to be of Sollecito plus Knox." ( Massei report, page 194.)
22. The knife was chosen at random.
Armando Finzi was the police officer who bagged the knife. He testified that he thought it was the murder weapon because it was compatible with the wound on Meredith's neck. Andrea Vogt explained this in the same article:
"Armando Finzi, an assistant in the Perugia police department's organized crimes unit, first discovered the knife in Sollecito's kitchen drawer. He said the first thing he noticed upon entering the place was a 'strong smell of bleach.' He opened the drawer and saw a 'very shiny and clean' knife lying on top of the silverware tray.
" 'It was the first knife I saw,' he said. When pressed on cross-examination, he said his 'investigative intuition' led him to believe it was the murder weapon because it was compatible with the wound as it had been described to him. With gloved hands, he placed the knife in a new police envelope, taped it shut with Scotch tape, then placed it inside a folder, he said. There were smaller and bigger knives in the drawer, but no others were taken into evidence from the kitchen, he said." (Andrea Vogt, The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 28 February 2009.)
23. No control tests were done.
John Follain pointed out in Death in Perugia that the control tests had been filed with another judge:
"The tests had been filed with an earlier test, and Judge Pratillo Hellmann later admitted them as evidence." (Death in Perugia, Kindle edition, page 409.)
The judges at the Supreme Court in Italy noted in their report that the negative controls had been carried out:
"…since all the negative controls to exclude it [contamination] had been done by Dr Stefanoni…" (Supreme Court report, page 93.)
The judges at the Italian Supreme Court criticised the court-appointed independent experts Conti and Vecchiotti for assuming they hadn't been done.
24. There is no evidence of Amanda Knox at the actual crime scene.
The crime scene involves the whole cottage and isn't limited to Meredith's room. Knox and Sollecito were both convicted of staging the break-in in Filomena's room. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence placing Amanda Knox in Meredith's room on the night of the murder.
For example, her DNA was found on the handle of the murder weapon, her bare bloody footprints were revealed by Luminol in the hallway and her own room and, according to the Scientific Police, her blood was mixed with Meredith's blood in different parts of the cottage. Knox's lamp was found in Meredith's room, and a shoeprint in her size of shoe.
25. None of the Luminol* stains contained Meredith's DNA.
Two of the traces revealed by Luminol contained Meredith's DNA:
"Amanda (with her feet stained with Meredith's blood for having been present in her room when she was killed) had gone into Romanelli's room and into her [own] room, leaving traces [which were highlighted] by Luminol, some of which (one in the corridor, the L8, and one, the L2, in Romanelli's room) were mixed, that is, constituted of a biological trace attributable to [both] Meredith and Amanda…" (Massei report, page 380.)
[* Luminol is a substance used in crime-scene investigations to reveal blood that has been cleaned up. It reacts with the microscopic particles of iron in the blood and turns it fluorescent.]
26. Mignini is persecuting Amanda Knox.
As shown above Dr Mignini was absent when Knox made her false accusation. Because of checks and balances, prosecutors in Italy have far less power than their American counterparts. The decision to send Knox to trial was actually made by Judge Micheli in 2008, not by Dr Mignini.
Judge Massei, Judge Cristiani and six lay judges found Knox guilty of murder in Perugia in 2009, and Judge Nencini, Judge Cicerchia and six lay judges confirmed Knox guilty of murder at the appeal in Florence in January 2014.
Dr Mignini is just one of several prosecutors who have been involved in the case. Manuela Comodi was Mignini's co-prosecutor at the the trial in 2009. Giancarlo Costagliola was the main prosecutor in the first appeal, which was annulled by the Italian Supreme Court. He and Giovanni Galati appealed against the 2011 acquittals. Dr Mignini played no part in the new appeal in Florence. Alessandro Crini was the prosecutor.
27. Mignini claimed Meredith was killed as part of a satanic ritual.
Mignini has never claimed that Meredith was killed during a satanic or sacrificial ritual, and that's the reason why no one has been able to provide a verbatim quote from Mignini supporting this false accusation.
Mignini specifically denied claiming that Meredith was killed in a sacrificial rite, in his letter to the Seattle reporter Linda Byron:
"On the 'sacrificial rite' question, I have never said that Meredith Kercher was the victim of a 'sacrificial rite.' "
Mignini also made it quite clear that he has never claimed that Meredith was killed as part of a satanic rite in his interview with Drew Griffin on CNN:
Drew Griffin: "You've never said that Meredith's death was a satanic rite?"
Mignini: "I have never said that. I have never understood who has and continues to say that. I read, there was a reporter – I don't know his name; I mention it because I noticed it – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it's not like that.
"I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite. I've never said it, so I would like to know who made it up."
Above: Several of the myth inventors and disseminators: Kassin, Dempsey, Douglas
28. Mignini claimed Meredith was killed in a sex game that went wrong.
Mignini didn't say anything about there being a sex game that went wrong when he presented his timeline to the court at the trial. Please be warned that there is some extremely graphic content below:
[Timeline of the attack on Meredith]
23:21: Amanda and Raffaele go into the bedroom while Rudy goes to the bathroom.
23:25: A scuffle begins between Amanda, helped by Raffaele, and Meredith. The English girl is taken by the neck, then banged against a cupboard, as shown by wounds to the skull. She resists all this. Rudy Guede enters.
23:30: Meredith falls to the floor. The three try to undress her to overcome her; they only manage to take off her trousers. The girl manages to get up, she struggles. At this point, the two knives emerge from the pockets of Amanda and Raffaele: one with a blade of four to five centimetres, the other, however, a big kitchen knife. Meredith tries to fend off the blades with her right hand. She is wounded.
23:35: The assault continues. Sollecito tries to rip off the English girl's bra.
23:40: Meredith is on her knees, threatened by Amanda with the knife while Rudy holds her with one hand and with the other hand carries out an assault on her vagina. There is first a knife blow on her face, then straight away another. However, these blows are not effective. The three become more violent. With the smaller knife, Sollecito strikes a blow: the blade penetrates 4 centimetres into the neck.
There is a harrowing cry, which some witnesses will talk about. Amanda decides to silence her, still according to the video brought to court by the prosecutors, and strikes a blow to the throat with the kitchen knife: it will be the fatal wound. Meredith collapses on the floor.
23:45: Meredith is helped up by Rudy and is coughing up blood. The English girl, dying, is dragged along so that she can continue to be undressed.
29. Mignini called Amanda Knox a "she-devil."
It wasn't Mignini who called Amanda Knox a "she-devil"; it was Carlo Pacelli, the lawyer who represents Diya Lumumba, at the trial in 2009.
Carlo Pacelli's comments were widely reported by numerous journalists who were present in the courtroom. Barbie Nadeau describes the moment he asked if Knox is a she-devil in some detail in Angel Face:
"'Who is the real Amanda Knox?' he asks, pounding his fist in the table. 'Is she the one we see before us here, all angelic? Or is she really a she-devil focused on sex, drugs, and alcohol, living life on the edge?'
"She is the luciferina—she-devil.'" (Barbie Nadeau, Angel Face, Kindle edition, page 124.)
30. Dr Mignini was convicted of a felony and faced prison.
The Florence Appeal Court and Cassation scathingly threw out a malicious prosecution for which both the prosecutor and judge suffered. Dr Mignini has never faced the slightest risk of prison. Often now seen on national TV, Dr Mignini is expected to be the next Prosecutor General of Umbria.
31. Rudy Guede was a drifter.
Rudy Guede lived in Perugia from the age of five, and he had his own apartment at the time of the murder.
32. Guede had a criminal record at the time of the murder.
Rudy Guede didn't have any criminal convictions at the time of Meredith's murder. He was not a drug dealer and not a police informant. As Judge Micheli scathingly noted, there is no proof that he committed any break-ins.
33. Guede left his DNA all over Meredith and all over the crime scene.
There was only one sample of Guede's DNA on Meredith body and there were only five samples of his DNA at the cottage. His DNA was found on a vaginal swab, on the sleeve of Meredith's tracksuit, on her bra, on the zip of her purse and on some toilet paper in the bathroom that Filomena and Laura shared.
"…also a genetic profile, from the Y haplotype on the vaginal swab, in which no traces of semen were found; DNA on the toilet paper in the bathroom near the room of Mezzetti, where unflushed faeces were found; on the bag found on the bed; on the left cuff of the blue sweatshirt (described as a "zippered shirt" in the first inspection, discovered smeared with blood near the body and partly underneath it); and on the right side of the bra found by the foot of Kercher's body…" ( Judge Giordano sentencing report, page 5.)
34. Guede left his semen at the crime scene.
Guede's DNA semen wasn't found at the crime scene.
"…also a genetic profile, from the Y haplotype on the vaginal swab, in which no traces of semen were found…" (Judge Giordano sentencing report, page 5.)
"In one of these swabs was found biological material belonging to a male subject identified as Rudy Hermann Guede. This material, which turned out not to be spermatic [158], could be from saliva or from epithelial cells from exfoliation…" (Massei report, page 158.)
35. Guede left his DNA inside Meredith's bag.
According to the Micheli report, which was made available to the public in January 2009, Guede's DNA was found on the zip of Meredith's purse, and not inside it.
"…b) traces attributable to Guede: ...on the bag found on the bed…" (Judge Giordano sentencing report, page 5.)
36. Guede left his bloody fingerprints all over the crime scene.
He left zero fingerprints. According to the Micheli report, the Massei report and Rudy Guede's final sentencing report, Guede was identified by a single bloody palm print:
"…b) traces attributable to Guede: a palm print in blood found on the pillow case of a pillow lying under the victim's body – attributed with absolute certainty to the defendant by its correspondence to papillary ridges as well as 16-17 characteristic points equal in shape and position…" (Judge Giordano sentencing report, page 5.)
It is confirmed that Guede was identified by a bloody palm print in the Micheli report (pages 10-11) and the Massei report (page 43). There was not a single fingerprint of his or Sollecito and almost none of Knox at the crime scene—which consists of the entire apartment.
37. Guede left his hair at the crime scene.
The Scientific Police didn't find any hair that belonged to Rudy Guede at the crime scene. That's why there's no mention of this in any of the court documents.
38. Guede pleaded guilty or confessed.
Rudy Guede has never pleaded guilty or confessed to Meredith's murder. He offered to testify against Knox and Sollecito at trial in 2009, but the prosecutors did not want to give him any breaks.
39. Guede's prison sentence was reduced because he made a deal with the prosecutors.
Guede was sentenced to 30 years in prison by Judge Micheli in 2008. However, his sentence was reduced because he opted for a fast-trial, which means he automatically received a third off the sentence of Knox and Sollecito. Generic mitigating circumstances—i.e., his young age—were also taken into consideration.
40. Guede didn't implicate Knox and Sollecito until much later.
Rudy Guede first implicated Knox and Sollecito whilst on the run in Germany on 19 November 2007 in an intercepted Skype conversation with his friend Giacomo:
Giacomo: "So they [Knox and Sollecito] killed her while she was dressed."
Guede: "Yes, here it says that they [clothes] were washed in the washing machine, but that's not true. She was dressed."
41. Amanda Knox didn't know Rudy Guede.
Amanda Knox testified in court that she had met Rudy Guede on several occasions.
Here's the court transcript:
Carlo Pacelli (CP), Patrick Lumumba's lawyer: In what circumstances did you meet him (Rudy)?
Amanda Knox (AK): I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening when I met the guys that lived underneath in the apartment underneath us, and while I was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.
CP: So it was on the occasion of a party at the house of the neighbors downstairs?
AK: Yes. What we did is, they introduced me to him downtown just to say "This is Rudy, this is Amanda", and then I spent most of my time with Meredith, but we all went back to the house together.
CP: Did you also know him, or at least see him, in the pub Le Chic, Rudy?
AK: I think I saw him there once.
CP: Listen, this party at the neighbors, it took place in the second half of October? What period? End of October 2007?
AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.
42. Raffaele Sollecito had never been in trouble with the police.
Raffaele Sollecito had a previous brush with the police in 2003.
"...Antonio Galizia, Carabinieri [C.ri] station commander in Giovinazzo, who testified that in September 2003 Raffaele Sollecito was found in possession of 2.67 grams of hashish." (Massei report, page 62.)
43. Sollecito had an impeccable track record.
Sollecito was monitored at university after being caught watching hardcore pornography featuring bestiality:
"…and educators at the boy's ONAOSI college were shocked by a film 'very much hard-core…where there were scenes of sex with animals with animals,' at which next they activated a monitoring on the boy to try to understand him. (Pages 130 and 131, hearing 27.3.2009, statements by Tavernesi Francesco)." (Massei report, page 61.)
44. Sollecito couldn't confirm Knox's alibi because he was sleeping.
The claim that Sollecito couldn't confirm Knox's alibi because he was sleeping is completely contradicted by Sollecito's witness statement:
"Amanda and I went into town at around 6pm, but I don't remember what we did. We stayed there until around 8:30 or 9pm.
"At 9pm I went home alone and Amanda said that she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to meet some friends. We said goodbye. I went home, I rolled myself a spliff and made some dinner." (Aislinn Simpson, The Daily Telegraph, 7 November 2007.)
Police said Raffaele Sollecito had continued to claim he was not present on the evening of the murder. He said:
"I went home, smoked a joint, and had dinner, but I don't remember what I ate. At around eleven my father phoned me on the house phone. I remember Amanda wasn't back yet. I surfed on the Internet for a couple of hours after my father's phone call, and I stopped only when Amanda came back, about one in the morning, I think. (The Times, 7 November 2007.)
Above: The two provisionally convicted who originated some of the cancerous myths.
45. Amanda Knox had never been in trouble with the police.
According to Andrew Malone in an article on the Mail Online website, Amanda Knox was charged with hosting a party that got seriously out of hand, with students high on drink and drugs, and throwing rocks into the road, forcing cars to swerve. He claimed the students then threw rocks at the windows of neighbours who had called the police. Knox was fined $269 (£135) at the Municipal Court after the incident (crime No: 071830624).
Barbie Nadeau also reported that Knox had had a previous brush with the law:
...and her only brush with the law was a disturbing-the-peace arrest for a house party she threw." (Barbie Nadeau, Angel Face, Kindle edition, page 6.)
According to the police ticket written by Seattle Police officer Jason Bender, Knox was issued with an infraction for the noise violation and warned about the rock throwing:
I issued S1/Knox this infraction for the noise violation and a warning for the rock throwing. I explained how dangerous and juvenile that action was.
46. Amanda Knox was retried for the same crimes.
All criminal cases in Italy are subject to three levels of review. No verdict is final until it has been confirmed by the Supreme Court.
Amanda Knox was not retried. She simply appealed her provisional 2009 convictions. The first appeal was held in Perugia in 2011, where she was provisionally acquitted by Judge Hellmann.
However, the Italian Supreme Court annulled the acquittals because Hellmann was found to have made a series of grave legal errors, and ordered a new appeal in Florence.
47. The Italian Supreme Court ruled that Amanda Knox's interrogation was illegal.
The Italian Supreme Court has never stated that Amanda Knox's recap/summary session on 5 November 2007 for the building of a list of names was illegal.
Bruce Fischer, who runs the Injustice in Perugia website and had heatedly denied this, eventually admitted this was not true on Perugia Murder File.net website:
"When it comes to the admissibility of the written statements, you are technically correct. The interrogation itself was never ruled illegal."
Note that as stated above it was not an interrogation.
48. The Supreme Court threw out Amanda Knox's statements.
The Supreme Court ruled that the 1:45am and 5:45am statements Knox insisted upon couldn't be used against her in the murder trial because she wasn't represented by a lawyer when she made them, even though she declined the presence of a lawyer.
However, both her statements were used against her at the calunnia component of the trial.
49. Dr. Stefanoni and the forensic technicians broke international protocols.
There is no internationally accepted set of standards. DNA protocols vary from country to country, and in America they vary from state to state. For example, New York state accepts LCN DNA tests in criminal trials.
Conti and Vecchiotti cited obscure American publications such as the Missouri State Highway Patrol Handbook and the Wisconsin Crime Laboratory Physical Evidence Handbook, not international protocols.
50. Amanda Knox is being railroaded or framed.
It would be immensely difficult in the Italian system for police or prosecutors to frame anyone and sustain this through two levels of appeal. With all its checks and balances and its professional career paths, it may be the system least prone to false final convictions in the world.
A number of Knox's supporters, including Judy Bachrach, Paul Ciolino and Steve Moore, have claimed in the US media that Amanda Knox is being railroaded or framed, but they mis-state multiple facts and provide no hard proof or any reason why. The Hellmann appeal was wiped off the books, but they wrongly still draw upon that.
The collection of the DNA and forensic evidence was videotaped by the Scientific Police and, as the judges at the Supreme Court noted, defence experts were actually in the police labs to observe the DNA tests and reported nothing wrong:
"…the probative facts revealed by the technical consultant [Stefanoni] were based on investigative activities that were adequately documented: sampling activity performed under the very eyes of the consultants of the parties, who raised no objection…" (The Supreme Court report, page 93.)
The legal proceedings against Sollecito and Knox have been monitored throughout by US officials from the Rome embassy, and they at no time have ever expressed any concerns about the fairness or legitimacy of the judicial process.
Court documents
The Micheli report
The Massei report
Judge Giordano sentencing report
The Supreme court report
The Nencini report
Court testimony
Amanda Knox
Anna Donnino
Monica Napoleoni
The Daily Mail
The Times
The Telegraph
The Daily Beast
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Death in Perugia, Kindle edition, John Follain
Angel Face, Kindle edition, Barbie Nadeau
Television programmes
Drew Griffins' interview with Giuliano Mignini on CNN
The Freelance Desk: http://thefreelancedesk.com
Perugia Murder File.org: http://www.perugiamurderfile.org
Perugia Murder File.net: http://perugiamurderfile.net
CPS website: http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/lcn_testing.html
Seattle-Post Intelligencer: http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/files/library/knoxincidentreport.pdf
Archived in Officially involved, Diversion efforts, The Knox-Mellases, Steve Moore, Bruce Fischer, The many hoaxes, Italian justice hoax, No-evidence hoax, DNA contam hoax, Spezi/Preston hoax, The Dr Mignini hoax, RS AK normal hoax, Knox interrog. hoax, The Guede hoax, Amanda Knox
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Wednesday, June 11, 2014
Congratulations To Andrea Romizi! Surprise Winner In The Election For Perugia's New Mayor
Posted by Peter Quennell
Andrea Romizi wins with 58% of the vote.
He has served for 10 years on the Perugia City Council and has recently occupied the post of vice-president. He represents a center-right coalition, the first time that Perugian politics has moved to the right in 70 years. He was a very late candidate after several withdrew.
He is now aged 35, he is a Roman Catholic, he practices as a lawyer, and he is engaged to be married to another lawyer. He's a lover of Tolkien (think: The Ring). His family's palazzio, famous for its haunting Nightingale courtyard with a fountain, which he recently opned to the public, is in the highest point in town and looks over Meredith's house about 300 yards to the north.
His father is a respected pediatrician, his mother Maria Rita was a herbalist, and his twin brother Francis is an anthropologist who just moved to Brazil. His grandfather Renato taught for forty years at the Greek and Latin High School of Perugia and was a university fellow at the Scuola Normale of Pisa.
He is said to be determined, cool and low-key. He's very popular among the youth vote, and always the subject of embraces and big grins when he walks around. Sounds like the kind of modest super-achieving guy that Meredith would have had a lot of time for.
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Thursday, June 05, 2014
Explaining To Lisa Marie Basile Why Smart Feminists Have Rightly Been Extremely Wary Of Amanda Knox
Posted by Hopeful
1. Late Joiner Of The Dwindling Knox Parade
A week ago in the Huffington Post Lisa Marie Basile asked why feminists are not storming the barricades for Knox.
The gullible Lisa Marie Basile had obviously swallowed whole Knox's avid self-promotion and serial demonizing to create a muddled article at best, confused about feminism, poorly researched on the case, nasty to good Italians who are in no easy position to defend themselves, and hugely disrespectful to the real victim.
I want to explain what real feminists are seeing that the faux feminist Lisa Marie Basile has managed to miss. Above all feminism means justice to women, and the many women who post on and support sites like TJMK are upholding justice, for the only woman who counts in this case.
2. An Attack With Indisputable Sex Aspects
Remember, Meredith is the innocent woman who was slain by an undeniably jealous and unhinged fellow female who used two males as her henchmen. No Italian court disagrees with that, and Italian courts (except when hijacked as with Hellmann) are extremely careful. .
The victim was left partly nude and in a staged position on the floor to suggest to whoever found the body that it was a sexual attack. Has Ms. Basile forgotten this actually was a sex crime for which all three were charged and sentenced? This surely opened the door for examination of the sexual behavior of the former suspects.
There was no "gendered expectation" among Italians investigating this crime, only a " truth expectation."
Articles like "We Are All Amanda Knox" which Basile mentioned try to normalize and even exult in Amanda's behavior as a wild woman, but she is not at all the norm there.
Raffaele had led a more restrained sexual lifestyle, actually more typical of a coy young woman than a randy man. Raffaele, in keeping perhaps with the church doctrines in which he had been reared, had not taken any sexual partners except possibly for one, other than in his extensive fantasy life.
Guede's sex act on Meredith was never in question, as he left behind his DNA to prove he had no boundaries. His nuisance behavior hitting on girls in nightclubs in Perugia was fully discussed, and he got no breaks from anyone on any front.
Knox herself bragged about her liberation ethics and fast work with men. Nobody else turned her into a "filthy, sex-obsessed slut" but herself. The media mostly rather neutrally reported the facts, and even when her track record of casual sex became clearly documented, it was never made a focal point of the trial at all.
What was focused on was Knox's alibi, her lies that her boss had killed her "friend" and her phone records. Knox was under the microscope for her DNA being found mixed with Meredith's blood in five locations of the cottage.
Knox was not questioned in court about how many boyfriends she had, or her one-night stands. She was never ever questioned about her sex partners or asked to list them, simply about what males had visited the house who might have had an interest in Meredith.
Again, this after all was staged to look like a sex crime, and had signs of sexual activity on the body. The Italians were hardly rushing off on detours for false reasons of prurient interests.
3. Morphing Into A New Knox Persona
For several years starting in Seattle Knox had adopted a dangerous and very irresponsible lifestyle, which she first bragged about but has tried to back away from since she left Italy. She pretends now to have a monogamous relationship with James Terrano.
Now Amanda manages to visit the television studios in a somber manner without cartwheels or doing splits and laughing. Amazing how serious she has become about her own tragedy while telling it to microphones for the world to hear after giggling about Meredith's death and sticking her tongue out sitting on a male lap in the police station, making fun of it all when it wasn't her death involved.
Amanda's "offness" as Ms. Basile refers to it raised a red flag of disrespect for the victim, which was why it was significant. Her lack of dramatic weeping outside of the cottage was never an issue.
Italians are very savvy. They are hardly the logic challenged numbskulls that Ms. Basile seems to fear they've been painted. Her hints that a godfearing Mignini is somehow inept shows her own bias to the godless and ruleless, the lawless and the stupid. I won't even go into issues of spiritual faith, it is too divisive. Surely we can all agree with the mandate "Thou shalt not kill."
4. There Was No Witch Hunt Or Inquisition
Sadly Ms. Basile has bought into Knox's warren of lies about "forced confessions" (in actuality accusations of an innocent man!), and the cleanup that was somehow "impossible" and a "tortured five days of brutal interrogation".
All have again and again been proven false and didnt stop her serving a three year sentence. Amanda Knox was challenged on her alibi, the presence of her blood at the scene, and her ownership of a key to the non-broken-into cottage.
She herself brought forward her alcohol and drug use, and blamed it for intoxication and lost memory for the night in question.
To rid herself of her most fundamental misconception about Amanda Knox, Lisa Marie Basile should read this series on the interrogation hoax which Knox still pushes and Basile gullibly swallowed.
5. Why Respect The Virtues Of Sexual Purity?
Modern Italian women are more fast, colorful, liberal and worldly than Americans may realize. They certainly dress a lot better. Naturally they try to live out their Catholic faith as best they can, even if we all fail to meet our highest ideals.
At the same time Italians tend to arrive at very close loving enduring families. How women prepare themselves is a very big component of this success - a success which Americans could use a lot more of.
Here are some practical reasons why Italians value sexual responsibility, which have nothing to do with faith, religion, or patriarchy, but only the safety of innocent children.
Italians as all cultures do, prefer women who are cautious and circumspect with their sexuality, as a sign of the woman's self-discipline, a natural caution toward males as a survival instinct which she will pass on to her offspring.
A female's self-discipline in sexual matters is a hallmark of her personal self-respect and a sign she is able to envision her larger future as the wife of a dignified man.
Most such men hope to marry a woman clean of physical disease who also carries little emotional baggage from multiple sexual affairs and heartbreaks with multiple men.
The fewer of those encounters before marriage, the better chance the children she bears him will be in no doubt of their parentage.
This is supremely important to the man, who will be working to pass on his entire life's work and heritage to the children he feels he has truly engendered and who carry his genes and his bloodline.
The children will more likely have a safe lifestyle of similar circumspect behavior and self-discipline inculcated by their mother who will be a large influence on their morals.
The mother's reputation can add or detract from her children's social position and can expand their opportunities as people of trustworthy background or its opposite.
There can be a safety aspect. A woman who has had a raunchy past may have unfinished business with various men who may possibly come back into the area, begin to harass, taunt, spread rumors, or even physically threaten and cause difficulty for a new husband's family, suspicious that perhaps one of the offspring is his own.
In this day of twitter, instagram, Facebook, email, and YouTube, sordid rumors that were once easily squelched now become known worldwide on digital media.
It is simple logic that if a woman while in the heyday of her youth and good looks in the full bloom of health and optimism, could not make attachments or command loyalty and devotion despite going all the way to sleeping with a man, that this person somehow has her radar broken or uses poor judgment.
Perhaps she simply prefers the lust for pleasure over saving herself for marriage to the man who would one day do her the most good and with whom she would develop a lifetime relationship. At any rate, she may have a sex drive that overwhelms her judgment. It may motivate her even after marriage, to break the ties of marriage.
The husband of such a woman will also inherit her personal history and may grow to resent behaviors in her past that might tarnish his future and their children's.
This is merely a common sense outlook on why it is smart to abstain from sexual intimacies with lots of strangers who have no ongoing goodwill toward the person whose body they use, nor any commitment to the offspring of such union financially or physically.
A woman's body at any time could conceive despite using birth control.
In each normal sex act she takes the risk of facing the horrendous consequences of pregnancy without emotional support, finances, and then she faces 15 to 20 years of her life required to raise the child while trying to introduce him to various father figures who may never feel the natural bond to the child that a married father would.
Talk to single moms anywhere, their path is no piece of cake. To choose this hard path by one's own lack of self-discipline and lack of insight is a foolish act. Society is left buying the diapers and formula and helping the exhausted young mother survive her day job and come home to night feedings.
In other words, all the hard duties of childcare are foisted upon those who didn't ask for them, who may be tired from raising their own legitimate offspring, a hard enough job with two parents committed and working on the children's behalf.
Social services are stretched hard enough when emergencies, accidents, death or desertion of the male parent leave women and children stranded and abandoned in financial straits.
To jump over this cliff by choice or lack of foresight is foolish of a woman who knows a child needs two devoted parents. It's self-absorbed, pleasure loving behavior with refusal to delay gratification.
It is selfish to the community.
Governments have to chase down these fathers for non-support of their own children.
Taxpayers and others who had no joy of the sex act or the union however brief it was, are forced for decades by welfare agencies (and basic compassion) to fork out child support dollars for strangers, rather than see the infant starve.
The child of these hasty and ill-fated unions already may face for a lifetime the hardship of feeling unwanted by his father. He or she may suffer embarrassment at his mom's unwise youthful choices that were predicated on her lack of logic or poor self-control and willful betrayal of her children's best future for one of difficulty and poverty.
Where is the love? It was love for self, not others.
An aside: Thank goodness God in heaven does love us all, no matter what our parents made a mess of. All can be resolved in peace and love, but the path of natural life will be much tougher and more limited when the child will not learn problem solving skills from two parents of the opposite sex nor have the benefit of the greater security. "Two are better than one, for they have more reward for their labor."
6. Precisely WHO Are Today's Feminists?
There are many forms of feminism. Oddly Ms. Basile is determined to argue for the imparting of partiality and favoritism to a woman who has been found to have killed another woman using two males as proxies. Ms. Basile's biased view is based on Amanda Knox being wrongfully condemned because Basile thinks she is attractive and sexually free.
But this never happened. There was hard proof against her in DNA in three rooms and a corridor in the house and on a knife handle and upper blade..
Where are all the feminists? Those who have their facts right are allowing justice to take its course, that's where. Justice is blind, and does not favor the pretty over the ugly or the rich over the poor. Yet all these things may be factors in the cause of any crime.
There are as many flavors of feminist as there are ideologies in the world. Consider this list.
- Liberal feminism
- Radical feminism
- Conservative feminism
- Ecofeminists
- Separatist feminism
- Materialist feminism
- Socialist feminism
- Marxist feminism
- Anarcha-feminists
- Feminist punk movement
- Feminism as a social construction
- Lipstick feminism
There are dozens and dozens. There are Christian feminists (I am one). All are equal before God, Mary is the mother of the Church, she was allowed to usher in the Savior of mankind. God uses women to restore what women through Eve lost.
Look at Meredith's heel being exposed under the duvet. (see Genesis 3:15 prophecy from God that the seed of the woman would crush Satan's head, but Satan would bruise his heel.)
Meredith was even worried she'd packed no socks when she first came to Perugia, and she told friends she hoped her dad would bring some, revealing concern about uncovered feet. .
There are the early feminist suffragettes who worked for women's right to vote and birth control. The second wave campaigned for legal and social and political equality for women. Equal work for equal pay. The second wave feminists declared, "The personal is political".
The second wave in about 30 years splintered off into various feminist camps divided on the issues of pornography *is it exploitative of women or a celebration of sexuality?, male equality versus misandry, homosexuality, the racial issues of women of color, the cultural (some Islamic, some Jewish, some WASP, etc.) women in developed countries versus poverty stricken nations.
Feminism is not a monolithic entity. Arguments abound whether we're now living in a postfeminist society, whether gender equality has been achieved.
Then there's third wave feminism.
7. Feminism In The Case Of Meredith's Murder
The truth of whether a person committed a crime rises above all of these feminist ideologies. All of them. It is not a traditional role problem, it is a problem of no respect for Meredith's particular life.
If she had been male, the bullies would not have dared.
So it was her femaleness that made her a target. Ironically her vulnerability was caused by another female's envy and anger management issues and extremely irresponsible lifestyle.
Knox is a very misguided cause for smart feminists.
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Wednesday, June 04, 2014
Hard To Believe Anti-Italy Website Owner Rachel Sterne Haot Works For A Prominent Italian-American
Posted by Peter Quennell
New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, brother of CNN's Chris Cuomo, with the President of the US
Haot "Secretly" Owns Inflammatory Ground Report
The shadowy founder and owner of the bitterly anti-Italian Ground Report "citizen journalism" website works for one of the most prominent Italian-Americans in the United States.
He is Andrew Cuomo, the very pro-Italy governor of the State of New York. Brother of Chris Cuomo who in his CNN TV persona has twice interviewed Amanda Knox, each time seemingly unconvinced and underwhelmed.
In contrast, for Rachel Sterne Haot it has been a case of rabid pedal-to-the-floor Knoxiana and rabid anti-Italian demonizing for the past few years to boost her anemic readership and to try to make a buck. Other website owners with better judgment had previously kicked off these dangerous crazies.
See very typical examples of false accusations of serious crimes by Italian officials here and here and here and here and here. If any media request this help, we can provide links or captures for 150+ more.
Pro-justice pro-Italy pro-Meredith points of view have been remorselessly edited out for nearly four years. Protests of defamation have been repeatedly brushed off with the claim that "a lawyer" who is never named says the defamation is just fine.
This new post below on Ground Report was by the (of course) anonymous "Jay Rap" and represents his sixth inflammatory and highly defamatory post in just three weeks.
Later in the Interrogation Hoax series, when we have finished laying out what really happened, we'll take apart all such misleading and defamatory posts. May note be taken of them in Albany and Italy.
The Rudy Guede Hoax
Here's a quick rebuttal of Jay Rap's untethered rant about Rudy Guede, who will be the subject of a second hoax series soon. Prior to the attack on Meredith, police had no knowledge or written record of either Rudy Guede or Patrick.
Dr Mignini had never even heard of Guede till analysis days after the murder of his handprint surfaced who he was (Knox didn't name Guede but carefully pointed at him, as this series of transcripts shows).
Guede did not ever work for the police. Guede did not ever get even one break in this case.
Milan police released him after he was found staying overnight in a Milan pre-school only because he had no prior record, not because anyone in Perugia told them to. In 2009 Guede offered to testify against RS and AK at trial in exchange for a break. HE WAS TURNED DOWN. No breaks at all.
"Knox Was Intentionally Framed By Italian Police"
Rachel Sterne Haot may wish to note that Jay Rap's made-up accusations here go away beyond what already cost Amanda Knox three years. Everything shown here in bold (and more) is untrue. All of Jay Rap's histrionic posts are pure fiction.
If you are following our Interrogation Hoax series, you will see immediately how wildly wrong this all is. If not, scroll down to "2. How Knox helped police with recap/summary"
Following up on the Italian police motive, this series will explore the positive indications that the Italian police intentionally framed Amanda Knox and Raffaelle Sollecito for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Here we review the pre-planned illegal interrogations of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. This is a summary of a review here (link).
Again, the motivation for framing Knox and Sollecito is to deflect attention away from Rudy Guede in the killing of Meredith Kercher, so as to conceal the culpability of the Perugian authorities and Giuliano Mignini for having protected and thus enabled Guede to murder Meredith Kercher. In short, self preservation. (For a review of the Police motive for framing Amanda Knox for the murder of Meredith Kercher, please see this previous article (link), or a summary of that article here (link).
The first indication of intentional framing by the Italian police, is the text book characteristics of the intensive and regimented pre-plamnned program of interrogations that were conducted by the police, resulting in falsely incriminating statements from the defendants.
It should first be said, that no confession taken under any circumstance whatsoever, can overcome the overwhelming physical evidence that the murder of Meredith Kercher was committed only by Rudy Guede. The lack of any physical trace of anyone else in the tiny blood soaked room where Meredith was killed, renders it a scientific impossibility that anyone but Rudy Guede, and he alone, killed Meredith Kercher. There is no evidence of a 'staged break-in', that claim is simply a distraction from this basic and obvious truth. Having said that, let's discuss the interrogation.
It is undisputed that in the five days from the discovery of the Kercher murder, to the arrest 5 days later, Amanda Knox was subjected to 43 hours of questioning by the Italian police. The last overnight session went from 10:30pm to 6am the next morning. We need look no further than Steve Moore's analysis in his contribution to the book; "The Forgotten Killer; Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher", to understand this process and objectives.
One of the most striking elements of Moore's narrative, is the extraordinary degree of consistency between the program of interrogation applied against Amanda Knox and Raffaelle Sollecito by the Italian police, and that described in a declassified FBI manual discussing techniques for "brain washing" used by the communists in North Korea.
Moore, quoting the FBI the manual; "Deprivation of sleep results in more intense psychological debilitation than does any other method of engendering fatigue. The communists (North Koreans) vary their methods. "Conveyor belt" interrogation that last 50-60 hours will make almost any individual compromise, but there is danger that this will kill the victim. It is safer to conduct interrogations of 8-10 hours at night while forcing the prisoner to remain awake during the day. Additional interruptions in the remaining 2-3 hours of allotted sleep quickly reduce the most resilient individual."
At 43 hours over 5 days, the Italian police interrogation of Amanda Knox is perfectly consistent with the formal brain washing techniques favored by the North Korean communist totalitarian regime. It is a clear violation of human rights in any civilized country operating under any recognizable rule of law.
Moore also draws special emphasis on the last day of the interrogation, the overnight session. Remarking on the number of detectives, he writes; "The fact that there were twelve detectives in the police station overnight is an indictment in and of itself. If you are going to have twelve detectives available all night for an interrogation, you need to let them know well in advance. You need to schedule them, to change their days off, etc. You need to pay them overtime. In the real world, twelve detectives all night is something that has to be signed-off on by higher ups. What does that tell us? It tells us the interrogation was planned well in advance and intentionally overnight." (emphasis Moore).
That this process was pre-planned, is also suggested in Amanda Knox's own account in her book, "Waiting To Be Heard". When speaking with Rita Ficarra, whom Knox describes as 'her main interrogator' and has identified as the officer who twice struck her during the last crucial session, Knox had asked if she could leave Perugia to stay with her Aunt in Germany, and Ficarra's response; "You can't leave Perugia. You're an important part of the investigation". When Knox inquired how long she would be needed, Ficarra's reply; We don't know- maybe months". When Knox responded that she was planning to go home for Christmas. Ficarra's response; "We'll decide if you can do that. We'll have to hear what the magistrate says when he calls in three days". This conversation occurred on the morning of November 3rd, the day after the crime was discovered. The decision to specifically target and frame Amanda Knox, was likely made no later than on the evening of November 2nd, 2007, the same evening of the day the crime was discovered.
Regarding the last overnight interrogation, Moore continues; "The reason they interrogated Amanda all night was to break her. Not to get the truth, not to get answers, not to make Perugia safer, but to break her so that she would say what they wanted her to say."
Reflecting on the overall process, Moore adds; "Amanda Knox was interrogated for eight hours. Overnight. She was denied food and water. She was denied the use of a bathroom. In a police station. In a foreign country. In a foreign language. By a dozen different officers. Without being allowed a lawyer."
Moore continuing; "The inquisition Amanda Knox endured in Perugia was no more legally or morally defensible than the Salem Witch Trials. No rational person should believe that the results of what she went through are reliable evidence. If you gave me the same amount of time with Knox's prosecutor (Mignini), I could have made him confess to the crime."
Moore's contribution and the book itself are well worth the read for anyone wanting to understand the injustice of the case against Knox and Sollecito, but let's turn lastly to Moore's comments on why an interrogation stops.
Moore; "There are two reasons an interrogator stops an interrogation: 1. He/she gets what he/she wants, or 2. He/she gives up. If the interrogator gives up, there is no written statement by the suspect. Therefore if the interrogation ends with a signed statement, you know the interrogator got what he/she wanted and can easily determine what that was. And what did Amanda say that satisfied her inquisitors? 'I confusedly remember seeing Patrick come out of Meredith's room.' So what did they want? They wanted to implicate Patrick Lumumba."
Moore explains; "Amanda did not bring up the name of Patrick Lumumba. The police did. And they repeatedly told her to 'imagine' Patrick and herself being at the cottage that night. Amanda did not give in to the brainwashing. But the police achieved enough with her to obtain a statement that let them do what they had intended to do all along: arrest Patrick Lumumbra"
As has been said, the motive of the Italian police and Mignini was to defect attention away from Rudy Guede, but in any event, to absolutely deny that Rudy Guede acted alone. For that to be the case, the break-in had to be staged, because otherwise, its just Rudy all by himself breaking in, and killing Meredith Kercher.
But by embroiling multiple people in the crime, the police could if not keep Rudy out of the crime entirely, they could at least minimize his role. If Patrick Lumumba had remained as a defendant, no doubt all the judges would have put the knife in his hands. But since Rudy Guede could not be kept out of the picture, it became necessary for someone else to play a more dominant and leading role.
And of course such a person had to be someone capable of manipulating others, and who better for that role – in the mind of Mignini, than a seductive manipulative woman. So in the fantasy world of the Italian prosecutors, judges, police, and an unfortunately significant segment of the populations of Italy and the UK, the knife that killed Meredith Kercher ended up being placed in Amanda's tiny hands, in their fantastic false imaginings.
Of all the lies that have been invented and repeated in this case, among the worst is that of those who misuse the confused statements that were extracted through psychological torture, as evidence of deception on the part of Amanda Knox and Raffaelle Solecito. It is the exact equivalent of blaming a rape victim for the consequences of a violent sexual assault. This lie is repeated by major news outlets, unscrupulous or careless reporters, and has become part of the lexicon of the case. It's both tragic and profoundly unfair.
The cruelest and most criminal hypocrisy of Mignini, the Italian police and judiciary, is to blame Knox for the confused statements induced through these abusive coercive means. The Italian police charging Amanda Knox with Calumnia, after forcing her to name Lumumba as part of their process and their own objective, must surely be a violation of human rights that all civilized countries and people must deplore.
When Knox herself testified to the ordeal she was put through at trial in her own defense, she was further charged with calumnia against the police, a charge which the prosecution itself would be allowed to investigate, an obvious conflict of interest. In Italy, defending oneself against fraudulent charges by the prosecutor, is apparently a criminal act.
The criminal, brutal, illegal, and supposedly unrecorded interrogation by the Italian police should shock the conscience of the civilized world. Yet this criminal conduct by the Italian police must again be concealed by blaming the victim. Charging Knox with calumnia for being tortured into naming Lumumba, is the arrogance of unrepentant criminals. And it is a marvel to behold how pliant and cooperative the Italian, UK and international media have been in simply passing along the prosecution's malicious self-serving slanders.
It may be the Italian authorities simply no longer have the ability to recognize the wrongfulness of their own behavior.
Knox's final conviction for calumnia by the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation is being appealed to the European Court of Human Rights, where we must all hope this shameful miscarriage of justice will finally be corrected.
The last word is perhaps best left to Moore: "How could this happen? It is either inexperience combined with poor training or corruption – or both. I have had rookie FBI agents come out to the field and conduct vastly superior investigations to what happened in Perugia in this case. I do not think the Italian system is inferior. In fact, if I thought so, I would not be criticizing those detectives in this manner."
Significantly, Moore concludes; "Every country has prosecutors and investigators who make mistakes. Every country experiences the shame of corruption. No country should be judged on whether these things exist; it should be judged on how it deals with them."
When Patrick Lumumba was released, and Rudy Guede was brought back from Germany, Rudy was substituted in for Patrick in the prosecution's case. But now the role of chief instigator would pass from Patrick, and be applied to Amanda Knox. Because from the perspective of the Perugians authorities, Mignini, the Italian police, and the Italian judiciary, Rudy Gude could not have acted alone (which is why the break-in must have been staged), or at worst, Rudy must have been a lesser player in this crime which was as has been stated, was by necessity a group effort in the prosecution's theory – for otherwise, the Italians themselves are responsible for Meredith Kercher's death.
Other commenters have said that the police erred by not changing their theory of accusation, when they slotted in Guede for Lumumba, that they suffered from 'target fixation' or other innocent mistakes. I disagree. There never was an 'accusatory theory' in the sense of one supported by evidence. The police objective of minimizing Guede's role, and therefore their own culpability in the murder of Meredith Kercher, was intentional, premeditated, and ultimately unaffected by Guede's formal emergence as a culprit. The Italian police objectives remained unchanged; under no circumstances, could Rudy Guede be found to have acted alone, because otherwise, Kercher's killing was the fault of the Italians.
There has never been an investigation in the usual sense of the word. It has been an exercise from the beginning of intentionally framing two innocent people for crimes they had nothing to do with, to deflect attention and criticism away from Mignini and the Perugian authorities – and there is a clear conflict of interest in allowing the Perugians and the Italian judiciary, to investigate themselves.
And so, the frame-up proceeded accordingly.
With Amanda's and Raffaelle's coerced statements in hand, now all that was necessary for Mignini and the Perugians, was to fabricate the evidence, and build their 'case'.
Below: the eager host to the dangerous Knox crazies Rachel Sterne Haot
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