text:
Two-time winner of the Pulitzer Prize David McCullough tells the dramatic story behind the story about the courageous brothers who taught the world how to fly: Wilbur and Orville Wright.
On December 17, 1903, at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, Wilbur and Orville Wright's Wright Flyer became the first powered, heavier-than-air machine to achieve controlled, sustained flight with a pilot aboard. The Age of Flight had begun. How did they do it? And why?
"Not as much as expected"
These 24 dramatic lectures examine key events from ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome to medieval Europe and Asia. Spanning thousands of years and three continents, this course illuminates fascinating historical dramas on the individual scale.
"Excellent material, engaging presentation."
Daniel James Brown's robust book tells the story of the University of Washington's 1936 eight-oar crew and their epic quest for an Olympic gold medal, a team that transformed the sport and grabbed the attention of millions of Americans. The sons of loggers, shipyard workers, and farmers, the boys defeated elite rivals first from eastern and British universities and finally the German crew rowing for Adolf Hitler in the Olympic games in Berlin, 1936.
"Do you believe in miracles??"
"This is your country, this is your world, this is your body, and you must find some way to live within the all of it." In a profound work that pivots from the biggest questions about American history and ideals to the most intimate concerns of a father for his son, Ta-Nehisi Coates offers a powerful new framework for understanding our nation's history and current crisis. Americans have built an empire on the idea of "race", a falsehood that damages us all but falls most heavily on the bodies of black women and men.
"A Heartfelt Self-aware Literary Masterpiece"
At the end of the last century, Johnstown, Pennsylvania, was a booming coal-and-steel town filled with hardworking families striving for a piece of the nation's burgeoning industrial prosperity. In the mountains above Johnstown, an old earth dam had been hastily rebuilt to create a lake for an exclusive summer resort patronized by the tycoons of that same industrial prosperity, among them Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, and Andrew Mellon.
"A page-turner! HIstory that reads like a novel"
From the development of the U-2 to the Stealth fighter, the never-before-told story behind America's high-stakes quest to dominate the skies. Skunk Works is the true story of America's most secret and successful aerospace operation. As recounted by Ben Rich, the operation's brilliant boss for nearly two decades, the chronicle of Lockheed's legendary Skunk Works is a drama of Cold War confrontations and Gulf War air combat, of extraordinary feats of engineering and human achievement against fantastic odds.
With the Pulitzer Prize-winning The Looming Tower, Lawrence Wright became generally acknowledged as one of our major journalists writing on terrorism in the Middle East. This collection draws on several articles he wrote while researching that book as well as many that he's written since, following where and how al-Qaeda and its core cultlike beliefs have morphed and spread.
In a thrilling narrative showcasing his gifts as storyteller and researcher, Erik Larson recounts the spellbinding tale of the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition. Also available abridged.
"A Rich Read!"
Bill Bryson has been an enormously popular author both for his travel books and for his books on the English language. Now, this beloved comic genius turns his attention to science. Although he doesn't know anything about the subject (at first), he is eager to learn, and takes information that he gets from the world's leading experts and explains it to us in a way that makes it exciting and relevant.
"Very informative, fun to listen to"
From the New York Times best-selling author comes the definitive history of one of the greatest battles ever fought - a riveting nonfiction chronicle published to commemorate the two-hundredth anniversary of Napoleon's last stand.
"Not a close run thing!"
In White Trash, Nancy Isenberg upends assumptions about America's supposedly class-free society. Poor whites were central to the rise of the Republican Party in the early 19th century, and the Civil War itself was fought over class issues nearly as much as it was fought over slavery. Reconstruction pitted poor white trash against newly freed slaves, which factored in the rise of eugenics. These poor were at the heart of New Deal reforms and LBJ's Great Society; they haunt us in reality TV shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo and Duck Dynasty.
"Makes a lot of conclusions without direct facts"
Why we think it's a great listen: Seabiscuit was a runaway success, and Hillenbrand's done it again with another true-life account about beating unbelievable odds. On a May afternoon in 1943, an Army Air Forces bomber crashed into the Pacific Ocean and disappeared, leaving only a spray of debris and a slick of oil, gasoline, and blood. Then, on the ocean surface, a face appeared.....
Autumn 1944. World War II is nearly over in Europe but is escalating in the Pacific, where American soldiers face an opponent who will go to any length to avoid defeat. The Japanese army follows the samurai code of Bushido, stipulating that surrender is a form of dishonor. Killing the Rising Sun takes listeners to the bloody tropical-island battlefields of Peleliu and Iwo Jima and to the embattled Philippines, where General Douglas MacArthur has made a triumphant return and is plotting a full-scale invasion of Japan.
The 13 chapters of The Art of War, each devoted to one aspect of warfare, were compiled by the high-ranking Chinese military general, strategist, and philosopher Sun-Tzu. In spite of its battlefield specificity, The Art of War has found new life in the modern age, with leaders in fields as wide and far-reaching as world politics, human psychology, and corporate strategy finding valuable insight in its timeworn words.
"Aidan Gillen needs to narrate more books"
The Last Punisher is a bold, no-holds-barred first-person account of the Iraq War. With wry humor and moving testimony, Kevin Lacz tells the story of his tour in Iraq with SEAL Team Three, the warrior elite of the navy. This legendary unit, known as The Punishers, included Chris Kyle (American Sniper), Mike Monsoor, Ryan Job, and Marc Lee. These brave men were instrumental in securing the key locations in the pivotal 2006 Battle of Ramadi, told with stunning detail in this book.
"A must read"
Celebrated historian Winston Groom tells the intertwined and uniquely American tales of George Patton, Douglas MacArthur, and George Marshall - from the World War I battle that shaped them to their greatest achievement: leading the allies to victory in World War II.
"Nothing new here"
Initially dismissed by US President Barack Obama, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has shocked the world by conquering massive territories in both countries and promising to create a vast new Muslim caliphate that observes the strict dictates of Sharia law. In ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror, American journalist Michael Weiss and Syrian analyst Hassan Hassan explain how these violent extremists evolved from a nearly defeated Iraqi insurgent group into a jihadi army of international volunteers who have conquered territory equal to the size of Great Britain.
"Hard to follow"
Why we think it's a great listen: If you ever thought history was boring, David McCullough's performance of his fascinating book will change your mind. In this stirring audiobook, McCullough tells the intensely human story of those who marched with General George Washington in the year of the Declaration of Independence, when the whole American cause was riding on their success.
"Amazing how little you know"
A classic since its original landmark publication in 1980, Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States is the first scholarly work to tell America's story from the bottom up - from the point of view of, and in the words of, America's women, factory workers, African-Americans, Native Americans, the working poor, and immigrant laborers.
"Amateur hour in the production booth"
In Foundation the chronicler of London and of its river, the Thames, takes us from the primeval forests of England's prehistory to the death of the first Tudor king, Henry VII, in 1509. He guides us from the building of Stonehenge to the founding of the two great glories of medieval England: common law and the cathedrals. He shows us glimpses of the country's most distant past - a Neolithic stirrup found in a grave, a Roman fort, a Saxon tomb, a medieval manor house.
"The Most Annoying Narrator EVER"
For more than a decade, Katherine Zoepf has lived in or traveled throughout the Arab world, reporting on the lives of women, whose role in the region has never been more in flux. Only a generation ago, female adolescence as we know it in the West did not exist in the Middle East. There were only children and married women. Today, young Arab women outnumber men in universities, and a few are beginning to face down religious and social tradition in order to live independently, to delay marriage, and to pursue professional goals.
"I could not stop listening"
McCullough's John Adams has the sweep and vitality of a great novel. This is history on a grand scale, an audiobook about politics, war, and social issues, but also about human nature, love, religious faith, virtue, ambition, friendship, and betrayal, and the far-reaching consequences of noble ideas. Above all, it is an enthralling, often surprising story of one of the most important and fascinating Americans who ever lived.
"An outstanding biography"
On May 18, 1860, William H. Seward, Salmon P. Chase, Edward Bates, and Abraham Lincoln waited in their hometowns for the results from the Republican National Convention in Chicago. When Lincoln emerged as the victor, his rivals were dismayed and angry. Throughout the turbulent 1850s, each had energetically sought the presidency as the conflict over slavery was leading inexorably to secession and civil war.
"Beautiful, Heartbreaking, and Informative"
More than a million listeners have thrilled to Bill O'Reilly's Killing Lincoln, the can't-stop-listening work of nonfiction about the shocking assassination that changed the course of American history. Now the anchor of The O'Reilly Factor recounts in gripping detail the brutal murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy—and how a sequence of gunshots on a Dallas afternoon not only killed a beloved president but also sent the nation into the cataclysmic division of the Vietnam War and its culture-changing aftermath.
"Nothing of Substance New"
Benjamin Franklin is the founding father who winks at us - an ambitious urban entrepreneur who rose up the social ladder, from leather-aproned shopkeeper to dining with kings. In best-selling author Walter Isaacson's vivid and witty full-scale biography, we discover why Franklin turns to us from history's stage with eyes that twinkle from behind his new-fangled spectacles. In Benjamin Franklin, Isaacson shows how Franklin defines both his own time and ours. The most interesting thing that Franklin invented, and continually reinvented, was himself.
"My kinda founding father...mostly..."
At the height of World War II, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, was home to 75,000 residents, consuming more electricity than New York City. But to most of the world, the town did not exist. Thousands of civilians - many of them young women from small towns across the South - were recruited to this secret city, enticed by solid wages and the promise of war-ending work. Kept very much in the dark, few would ever guess the true nature of the tasks they performed each day in the hulking factories in the middle of the Appalachian Mountains.
"Important story of this secret city"
In Washington: A Life celebrated biographer Ron Chernow provides a richly nuanced portrait of the father of our nation. This crisply paced narrative carries the reader through his troubled boyhood, his precocious feats in the French and Indian War, his creation of Mount Vernon, his heroic exploits with the Continental Army, his presiding over the Constitutional Convention, and his magnificent performance as America's first president.
"Great book!"
From electric lights to automobiles to the appliances that make our lives easier at work and at home, we owe so much of our world to the Industrial Revolution. In this course, The Great Courses partners with the Smithsonian - one of the world's most storied and exceptional educational institutions - to examine the extraordinary events of this period and uncover the far-reaching impact of this incredible revolution.
"Incredibly entertaining, balanced, comprehensive"
This comprehensive series of 84 lectures features three award-winning historians sharing their insights into this nation's past-from the European settlement and the Revolutionary War through the Civil War, 19th-century industrialization, two world wars, and the present day. These lectures give you the opportunity to grasp the different aspects of our past that combine to make us distinctly American, and to gain the knowledge so essential to recognizing not only what makes this country such a noteworthy part of world history, but the varying degrees to which it has lived up to its ideals.
"Everything You Need to Know about US History"
In this magnificent biography, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of American Lion and Franklin and Winston brings vividly to life an extraordinary man and his remarkable times. Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power gives us Jefferson the politician and president, a great and complex human being forever engaged in the wars of his era. Philosophers think; politicians maneuver. Jefferson's genius was that he was both and could do both, often simultaneously. Such is the art of power.
"A Man and Biography Relevant to Our Day"
This is the story of the rise to national power of a desperately poor young man from the Texas Hill Country. The Path to Power reveals in extraordinary detail the genesis of the almost superhuman drive, energy, and ambition that set LBJ apart. It follows him from the Hill Country to New Deal Washington, from his boyhood through the years of the Depression to his debut as Congressman, his heartbreaking defeat in his first race for the Senate, and his attainment, nonetheless, at age 31, of the national power for which he hungered.
"The Best of all Biographies"
He was a husband, a father, a preacher - and the preeminent leader of a movement that continues to transform America and the world. Now, in a special program commissioned and authorized by his family, here is the life and times of Martin Luther King, Jr. Featuring King's I Have a Dream Speech.
"A Fascinating Slice of History"
This is a sweeping narrative history of the events leading to 9/11, a groundbreaking look at the people and ideas, the terrorist plans, and the Western intelligence failures that culminated in the assault on America. Lawrence Wright's remarkable book is based on five years of research and hundreds of interviews that he conducted in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, England, France, Germany, Spain, and the United States.
"Riveting... Sobering... Chilling..."
One of the most admired nonfiction writers of our time retells the story of one truly fabulous year in the life of his native country - a fascinating and gripping narrative featuring such outsized American heroes as Charles Lindbergh, Babe Ruth, and yes Herbert Hoover, and a gallery of criminals (Al Capone), eccentrics (Shipwreck Kelly), and close-mouthed politicians (Calvin Coolidge). It was the year Americans attempted and accomplished outsized things and came of age in a big, brawling manner. What a country. What a summer. And what a writer to bring it all so vividly alive.
"Why 1927?"
In this epic, beautifully written masterwork, Pulitzer Prize–winning author Isabel Wilkerson chronicles one of the great untold stories of American history: the decades-long migration of black citizens who fled the South for northern and western cities in search of a better life. From 1915 to 1970, this exodus of almost six million people changed the face of America. Wilkerson interviewed more than a thousand people, and gained access to previously untapped data and official records, to write this definitive and vividly dramatic account of how these American journeys unfolded, altering our cities, our country, and ourselves.
"Superior non-fiction"
The anchor of The O'Reilly Factor recounts one of the most dramatic stories in American history—how one gunshot changed the country forever. In the spring of 1865, the bloody saga of America's Civil War finally comes to an end after a series of increasingly harrowing battles. President Abraham Lincoln's generous terms for Robert E. Lee's surrender are devised to fulfill Lincoln's dream of healing a divided nation. But one man and his band of murderous accomplices are not appeased....
"History Made Interesting"
The definitive account of the O. J. Simpson trial, The Run of His Life is a prodigious feat of reporting that could have been written only by the foremost legal journalist of our time. First published less than a year after the infamous verdict, Jeffrey Toobin's nonfiction masterpiece tells the whole story, from the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman to the ruthless gamesmanship behind the scenes of "the trial of the century".
"I wanted more after the 2016 mini-series..."
The Mongol army led by Genghis Khan subjugated more lands and people in 25 years than the Romans did in 400. In nearly every country the Mongols conquered, they brought an unprecedented rise in cultural communication, expanded trade, and a blossoming of civilization.
"Brilliant, insightful, intriguing."
In an era of hardening religious attitudes and explosive religious violence, this book offers a welcome antidote. Richard Holloway retells the entire history of religion - from the dawn of religious belief to the 21st century - with deepest respect and a keen commitment to accuracy. Writing for those with faith and those without, and especially for young listeners, he encourages curiosity and tolerance, accentuates nuance and mystery and calmly restores a sense of the value of faith.
"Excellent "in a nutshell" book!"
Prosecuting attorney in the Manson trial Vincent Bugliosi held a unique insider's position in one of the most baffling and horrifying cases of the 20th century: the cold-blooded Tate-LaBianca murders carried out by Charles Manson and four of his followers. What motivated Manson in his seemingly mindless selection of victims, and what was his hold over the young women who obeyed his orders? Now available for the first time in unabridged audio, the gripping story of this famous and haunting crime is brought to life by acclaimed narrator Scott Brick.
"Everything I remembered about the case was wrong.."
Fingerprints of the Gods is the revolutionary rewrite of history that has persuaded millions of listeners throughout the world to change their preconceptions about the history behind modern society. An intellectual detective story, this unique history audiobook directs probing questions at orthodox history, presenting disturbing new evidence that historians have tried - but failed - to explain.
"pretty heavy material "
In the summer of 1944, a handpicked group of young GIs - including such future luminaries as Bill Blass, Ellsworth Kelly, Arthur Singer, Victor Dowd, Art Kane, and Jack Masey - landed in France to conduct a secret mission. Armed with truckloads of inflatable tanks, a massive collection of sound-effects records, and more than a few tricks up their sleeves, their job was to create a traveling road show of deception on the battlefields of Europe, with the German Army as their audience.
"Bring a balloon to a gun fight."
This is the first volume in a bold new series that tells the stories of all peoples, connecting historical events from Europe to the Middle East to the far coast of China, while still giving weight to the characteristics of each country. Susan Wise Bauer provides both sweeping scope and vivid attention to the individual lives that give flesh to abstract assertions about human history. This narrative history employs the methods of "history from beneath" - literature, epic traditions, private letters, and accounts - to connect kings and leaders with the lives of those they ruled.
"An Historic Achievement"
Almost all accounts of D-Day are told from the Allied perspective, with the emphasis on how German resistance was overcome on June 6, 1944. But what was it like to be a German soldier in the bunkers and gun emplacements of the Normandy coast, facing the onslaught of the mightiest seaborne invasion in history? What motivated the German defenders, what were their thought processes - and how did they fight from one strong point to another, among the dunes and fields, on that first cataclysmic day?
"Great story, but the accent... "
The celebrated 2010 HBO miniseries The Pacific, winner of eight Emmy Awards, was based on two classic books about the War in the Pacific, Helmet for My Pillow and With The Old Breed. Audible Studios, in partnership with Playtone, the production company co-owned by Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman, and creator of the award-winning HBO series Band of Brothers, John Adams, and The Pacific, as well as the HBO movie Game Change, has created new recordings of these memoirs, narrated by the stars of the miniseries.
"This is the second audio book of Sledge's work"
Beginning in the heady days just after the First Crusade, this volume - the third in the series that began with The History of the Ancient World and The History of the Medieval World - chronicles the contradictions of a world in transition. Impressively researched and brilliantly told, The History of the Renaissance World offers not just the names, dates, and facts but the memorable characters who illuminate the years between 1100 and 1453 - years that marked a sea change in mankind's perception of the world.
"Almost Great"
Virtually all human societies were once organized tribally, yet over time most developed new political institutions which included a central state that could keep the peace and uniform laws that applied to all citizens. Some went on to create governments that were accountable to their constituents. We take these institutions for granted, but they are absent or are unable to perform in many of today's developing countries—with often disastrous consequences for the rest of the world.
"Best Summary of Political History I've Read"
Based on remarkable new research, acclaimed historian Alexander Rose brings to life the true story of the spy ring that helped America win the Revolutionary War. For the first time, Rose takes us beyond the battlefront and deep into the shadowy underworld of double agents and triple crosses, covert operations and code breaking, and unmasks the courageous, flawed men who inhabited this wilderness of mirrors—including the spymaster at the heart of it all.
"The Story Behind the Story"
The decade of the 1790s has been called the age of passion. Fervor ran high as rival factions battled over the course of the new republic - each side convinced that the others' goals would betray the legacy of the Revolution so recently fought and so dearly won. All understood as well that what was at stake was not a moment's political advantage, but the future course of the American experiment in democracy. In this epochal debate, no two figures loomed larger than Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.
"Well presented and insightful"
The celebrated 2010 HBO miniseries The Pacific, winner of eight Emmy Awards, was based on two classic books about the War in the Pacific, Helmet for My Pillow and With The Old Breed. Audible Studios, in partnership with Playtone, the production company co-owned by Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman, and creator of the award-winning HBO series Band of Brothers, John Adams, and The Pacific, as well as the HBO movie Game Change, has created new recordings of these memoirs, narrated by the stars of the miniseries.
"Engaging Account of the War in "The Pacific""
A magnificent history of the opening years of the Civil War by Pulitzer Prize-winning author Bruce Catton. The first book in Bruce Catton's Pulitzer Prize-winning Army of the Potomac Trilogy, Mr. Lincoln's Army is a riveting history of the early years of the Civil War, when a fledgling Union Army took its stumbling first steps under the command of the controversial general George McClellan.
"Very poor reader with great material"
In a ranch south of Texas, the man known as The Executioner dumps 500 body parts in metal barrels. In Brazil's biggest city, a mysterious prisoner orders hit men to gun down 41 police officers and prison guards in two days. In Southern Mexico a meth maker is venerated as a saint while enforcing Old Testament justice on his enemies. A new kind of criminal kingpin has arisen: part CEO, part terrorist, and part rock star, unleashing guerrilla attacks, strong-arming governments, and taking over much of the world's trade in narcotics, guns, and humans.
"Eye opener"
On August 5, 1942, giant pillars of dust rose over the Russian steppe, marking the advance of the 6th Army, an elite German combat unit dispatched by Hitler to capture the industrial city of Stalingrad and press on to the oil fields of Azerbaijan. The Germans were supremely confident; in three years, they had not suffered a single defeat. The Luftwaffe had already bombed the city into ruins. German soldiers hoped to complete their mission and be home in time for Christmas.
"great, but difficult to follow"
On the first Sunday in December 1941, an armada of Japanese warplanes appeared suddenly over Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and devastated the U.S. Pacific Fleet. Six months later, in a sea fight north of the tiny atoll of Midway, four Japanese aircraft carriers were sent into the abyss. Pacific Crucible tells the epic tale of these first searing months of the Pacific war, when the U.S. Navy shook off the worst defeat in American military history and seized the strategic initiative.
"Superb narrative history"


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text:
- Report: #68876
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Adelphia Publishing
Adelphia PublishingPO Box Newport, Rhode Island U.S.A.
Adelphia Publishing is a liar and a thief. They guarantee satisfaction, then split. Newport Rhode Island
*Consumer Comment: I feel badly for you
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Then the shop I worked in closed due to poor management and I lost my $55,000.00 job. I saw the ad for Adelphia Publishing and thought a work-at-home-job might just be the thing.
Adelphia Publishing asked for a guarauteed refundable deposit of $40.00 up front for materials and promised it to be returned when I sent out the first box of stuffed envelopes they were to provide me with.
Instead I got another letter requesting another $120.00 for the privledge of receiving the highest amount of envelopes to be stuffed.
This was in May 2003.
We cannot find a website to contact them through and have requested a refund of our $160.00 which has fallen on deaf ears.
Quincy, Michigan
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/12/2003 04:42 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Adelphia-Publishing/Newport-Rhode-Island-02840/Adelphia-Publishing-is-a-liar-and-a-thief-They-guarantee-satisfaction-then-split-Newpor-68876. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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#1 Consumer Comment
I feel badly for you
AUTHOR: Boz - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, October 12, 2003POSTED: Sunday, October 12, 2003
If you want to work at home, you really must find an actual firm who requires your unique service. Since you can recognize bad management, perhaps you should consult for other shops, so they do not suffer the same fate as your previous job. What ever you do, please remember that anything that comes to you via email or on the web is going to be suspect; it is the new American Way.
In closing remember, if you are not working and net below $50,000 you are poor. Do not forget that poor people cannot afford new cars and cell phones, so don't even think about that sort of thing until you are back on your feet.
Best wishes and luck.
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Room No2, Ajjappa Block, 4th Cross, OppWhite House Appartment Dinnur Main Road RT Nagar, 560032 http://www.attestationservices.in Attestation Servicesbanglorekarnataka
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$199,0003 beds, 2 baths2,409 sqft lot 2.90 acWalk Score® 8MLS 4512266
2,200 sqft lot 2.60 acWalk Score® 77MLS 4508229
3,808 sqft lot 1.12 acWalk Score® 78MLS 4506672
$244,9001,579 sqftWalk Score® 65MLS 4498128
$275,0001,624 sqftMLS 4475725
2,000 sqft lot 15,246 sqftWalk Score® 38MLS 4465478
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- Report: #1023450
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Complaint Review: Equinox
Equinox1285 Baring Blvd Sparks, Nevada United States of America
Equinox Equinox Beauty Cream On line ripoff ..free trial sample Recurring shipments not requested..refused to issue credit Sparks, Nevada
*Consumer Comment: Equinox is a rip off
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Does Ireland's public service still serve the public?
Published 30/08/2014 | 02:30
Is it time to ask if policies and procedures in all sections of the public service have become so focused on management systems that the primary function of public service, namely to serve the needs of 'the public', has been compromised.
Surely the way in which a society is governed is a reflection of the importance our Government, local governments and our heads of public service place on their responsibilities to every citizen of the State?
Media coverage on issues relating to principal private residence taxes, health service inaccessibility, educational disadvantage, homelessness and many other social issues suggests that the systems, policies and procedures and legislation are the primary determinates of how people are treated.
I had always been reared to believe that leaders were people with vision and integrity. When issues were raised in all areas of social governance, I expected that those leaders would respond honestly and openly to provide the rationale for matters that affected ordinary people.
More and more, I have become disillusioned by the silence that seems to permeate the higher echelons of all those with leadership responsibilities
It is not acceptable that countless people are homeless in this country. It is even more unacceptable that Government and local councils claim to be unable to address this problem in a much shorter timeframe than currently proposed.
There are solutions, but only if our 'leaders' recognise the cancerous nature of this deprivation.
It is not acceptable that those in need have huge difficulties in accessing treatment in the public health service. It is not acceptable that access to education is becoming more dependent on economic status and that the notion of equal access for all has been erased.
It is not acceptable that the avoidance of admitting any liability for past injustices governs the responses of our public representatives and indeed the leaders of our public services. It is not acceptable that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.
There are so many things in our society that are not acceptable and yet those who have been tasked to govern and lead, namely our Government, local councils and heads of the public service, take no responsibility and hide behind systems of governance, policies and procedures which they have constructed.
Fred Meaney, Dalkey, Co Dublin
Nash steps out of bounds
I think Junior Minister Ged Nash needs a quick lesson in political boundaries. Private sector employees' wages are ultimately determined by the businesses that employ them, and should not be the concern of politicians.
The factors that shape such determinations are staggeringly varied, depending on the particular business in question. Interestingly, one significant influencing factor on wage levels in the economy is employment, and this determinant engages the straightforward economics of supply and demand.
If Mr Nash could take Jobs Minister Richard Bruton's lead and contribute ideas that may assist job-growth generally then perhaps he will be doing the State some service - after all, the greater the number of people at work, the higher average wages will be.
It is bewildering to see a Labour minister's focus on increasing the wages of those people already lucky enough to be in employment at a time when unemployment is still exceptionally high.
Talking up the economy is all well and good, but it does little to put money into the pockets of struggling small and medium enterprises, the businesses that have to pay the wages. It might do the minister no harm to remember that.
Keith Winters, Riverview, Waterford
Perpetuating smoking
As someone who has worked for decades on policy measures to reduce the horrendous toll from smoking, it was a great pleasure to read Dr Ruairi Hanley's column on e-cigarettes (Irish Independent, August 29), while I was in this country to drop my daughter off at medical school.
Those people, including some misinformed and misguided officials at WHO, who are seeking to put barriers in the way of a massively less hazardous replacement for smoking are perpetuating smoking.
As Dr Hanley points out, what we need are policies that encourage smokers to reduce their risks rather than the pursuit of an unscientific and inhumane abstinence-only campaign against nicotine. If his clear thinking and compassion for the people he treats is any indication of the views of the profession here, it reassures me that my daughter's choice to study medicine in Ireland was a good one.
David Sweanor, Adjunct Professor of Law, University of Ottawa, Canada
Coalition needs a reality check
We have an official unemployment rate of more than 11pc in Ireland and continuing emigration of our talented young people, yet a big campaign for same-sex "marriage" is the Government's priority for next year (Irish Independent, August 29)?
The current Government needs a further reality check.
John B Reid, Monkstown, Co Dublin
The cock-up to bonus ratio
I wish to ask your readers a simple question, one which they should be able to answer in less time than it takes to read this letter: do they think that Bank of Ireland CEO Richie Boucher's next bonus will be affected by the recent cock-up over payment of wages to various account holders?
Brian Cosgrove, Cornelscourt, Dublin 18
Thank the taxpayer
A Dublin bus just passed me with an advertisement for a building society that reads "We wouldn't have this house if it wasn't for ...".
Wouldn't it be nice to see a large billboard display on behalf of our Irish financial institutions that reads, "If it wasn't for the Irish taxpayer, we wouldn't have a business".
How about it Enda? It would win some votes.
Darren Williams, Dublin 18
Coexistence in the Middle East
Siobhan O Connor's article (Irish Independent, August 29) was inspiring and bold, especially as it comes at a crucial time when we hear about Christians being driven from their homes in droves in Iraq, and other minorities being humiliated and mistreated by Islamic extremists.
It is true that spirituality is seeing things more clearly and that it is through adversity that we gain strength. The recent bombardments of Gaza, and Western governments' repressive policies in Iraq and Afghanistan, have undeniably inflamed tensions between a myriad of religious groups and cultures.
However, religions have always coexisted harmoniously with each other and the Middle East has always been a sanctuary for those fleeing religious persecution.
In Jordan, Christians constitute 7pc of the population. They were in Jordan 600 years before Muslims, making them the most ancient Christian community in the world.
They enjoy political, religious and social rights equal to Muslims, and their rights are safeguarded by the state and the law. They continue to play a leading role in interfaith harmony and all walks of life.
Even in Syria, Christians were safe for centuries. Armenians used to have al Arman neighbourhood (the Armenian quarter in the capital city, Damascus), where they prospered.
At the present time, Jordan is an oasis of stability, tranquillity and peace in a region ravaged with atrocities committed in the name of God.
Dr Munjed Farid Al Qutob, London, NW2
Irish Independent


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Definition of British Broadcasting Corporation in English:
British Broadcasting Corporation
(abbreviation BBC)
A public corporation for radio and television broadcasting in Britain.
The BBC was established in 1927 by royal charter and held a monopoly until the introduction of the first commercial TV station in 1954. It is financed by the sale of television viewing licences rather than by revenue from advertising and has an obligation to remain impartial in its reporting
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Skip to comments.All Roads Lead To Rome (A Southern Baptist's Journey into the Catholic Church)
Posted on 02/19/2008 11:55:18 AM PST by NYer
I know that I was not the first Protestant to learn the truth about the Catholic Church; I am sure that this is a story you could probably hear from countless other people, changing only the names and places. I know that many have walked the road that I have; that road which leads home, to Rome!
I was born in 1975 to two God-fearing Southern Baptists in Dallas, Texas. My father had grown up Methodist, but became Baptist when he married my mother in 1968. From what my father has said, his family was mostly Methodist. His father and his paternal grandfather were both Thirty-Third Degree Masons. My father's paternal grandfather's father was even the founding pastor of the First Methodist Church of Dallas. Though I have heard the history of my father's family, I myself knew only a very few of them. A great majority of my mother's family was Baptist, with a smattering of Methodists here and there. I am fairly certain of one thing, however: there were no Catholics.
Since a very young age, I can remember going to church and Sunday school on Sunday mornings to listen to the preacher and my Sunday school teachers talk about Jesus, and how He would save us from the fires of Hell. Every Sunday morning, my parents and I would sing in church and listen to the sermons. Though we didn't usually attend the Sunday evening services, I knew that once a month on a Sunday evening, an event called The Lord's Supper would happen. At this Lord's Supper, the preacher would begin passing around large round trays made of chrome. One of the trays had tiny crackers on it, and the other one had little cups of grape juice. I can remember that before I was baptized I wanted to take part in this event, but my parents would not let me. They did not explain why I shouldn't, other than I hadn't been baptized yet. Just as it is in the Catholic Church, Baptism is an initiation of sorts into the active life of the church community. (Of course, to a Catholic, it is that and much more. I would not know this until much later.) A few years went by, and when I was about eight years old, I decided that I wanted to be "saved" and get baptized. To get "saved," you would pray a little prayer like, "Dear Jesus, please come into my heart and forgive me of all of my sins. I ask you to become my personal Lord and Savior. All these things I pray in Jesus' name. Amen." From a Baptist viewpoint, being baptized is only a symbol, and nothing more. In other words, for a Baptist, baptism isn't really necessary for salvation. After I got baptized, I was able to partake in the Lord's Supper. I asked my father what the Lord's Supper meant, and he said that it represented the body and the blood of Jesus. That is to say, it represented the sacrifice that He made for us on the Cross. My father then read the passage from a King James Bible that told about the establishment of what we called The Lord's Supper: "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luke 22:19-20, KJV)" I asked why it was that we only did this once a month, and even then at the evening service (most people went to the morning service). My father thought about it for a minute, then he said that the Catholics do it every Sunday at all of their services. (In actuality, most Catholic churches have at least one Mass every day except Good Friday; Catholics are bound to attend Mass only on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.) He said that perhaps we do it less often so as not to imitate them. As you can imagine, I did not understand this for what it was. The Baptists, and many other Protestant groups, were concerned that the "Lord's Supper" would become the focus of the church service rather than the sermon. Though there are some Protestant churches that have communion every Sunday, none of them place the same importance on the Eucharist that the Catholic Church does.
My father had nothing personal against Catholics; in fact, of all the people in my family, he probably liked them more than anyone else in our family did. My mother had a problem with the Catholic Church, but if you asked her why, she really couldn't tell you. She would give the same rote answers that many Protestants had been giving for centuries. "They worship the Pope, Mary, and the Saints." "They think a person can forgive their sins rather than God." She couldn't explain why she believed these things, or in the case of the last statement, she couldn't explain why a person couldn't say that your sins are forgiven. When I finally asked her why she thought a person could not forgive sins after the Bible said that Christ gave that power to the Apostles, she said she'd just rather confess directly to God. I believe that the real reason that she did not like Catholicism was because her father did not like it. I really believe that was the main reason. For some reason, my maternal grandfather (whom we have always called "Smittie") has a fairly wide streak of anti-Catholicism in him. Even as a child, I remembered him complaining every time the Pope was on television or in the newspaper. Whenever we were at a restaurant or shopping and we saw someone with a large family (four or five kids or more), he would often joke that they must be Catholic. The ironic thing about his dislike of the Church is that virtually all of his friends (excepting those from his church) since he became an adult were Catholic. I don't think that he had anything personal against individual Catholics; it was the Church that bothered him. Smittie was in England during World War II, and he found many friends there, all Catholic. He always spoke highly of them. He missed them all very much, too; all but a few of them had been killed in the war and those few survivors had died since. To this day, I do not know what makes Smittie think that the Church is somehow diabolical or at the very least, misled. I've often wondered if it had something to do with his association with Freemasonry. By the way, he is a Third Degree Mason (Master Mason), though he has not been an active Mason for many years.
Now you can see where I came from. A Southern Baptist upbringing with lots of anti-Catholic influence from just about everyone in my family and my church, with the possible exception of my father. If, when I was in high school, someone had told me that I would one day become Catholic, I would have literally laughed in his face. By the time I was fifteen, I had truly learned to have contempt for the Catholic Church. Not Catholic people, you understand, just the beliefs of and possibly the clergy of the Church. I figured that most Catholics were simply misled, and too ignorant to realize it. After all, "everyone knows" that Catholics are forbidden to read the Bible, right?! [a common Protestant myth]
I entered high school and turned fifteen at about the same time, and high school was a much bigger place than the middle school where I had attended. I decided to get involved in some of the clubs in school to make friends, and one of the clubs was called Raiders for Christ (the Raiders was the school mascot). This club was made up of mostly Protestant and "Evangelical" Christians of various denominations. In the meetings, we talked about "witnessing" to people, getting "saved," and how we should carry our Bible around as a good example to others. I decided that I would try to talk to people in classes and invite them to church with me. From some people, I got a fairly good response. Some would say they had already been "saved," and currently attended another church. Some would say that they had been "saved" and that they felt that church was not necessary because they read the Bible often anyway. I had no problem with these people. However, I ran into some that caused problems. As you can guess, these were the Catholics.
Many Catholics that I met did not know their faith very well, but they did go to Mass every Sunday. I derided them for not knowing why they believed the things that they believed. I said that it was apparent that the Catholic Church was based on blind faith and that reason was nowhere to be found. I told several people that if they did not renounce the Catholic Church and accept Christ as their "personal Lord and Savior," that they would most certainly go to Hell. I'm sure that these people did not appreciate what I was saying, and I am quite thankful that they were more charitable to me than I was to them. One particular Catholic with whom I made friends was a teacher at the school. In fact, she was one of the sponsors of an extra-curricular organization of which I was a member for three years. She knew her faith VERY well, and for that I am glad. I admit, however, it was quite frustrating at times. After all, I couldn't win a debate with her. While she did not convert me to Catholicism, she did put me on the right track. I quit harassing the Catholics so much and tried to see them as fellow Christians rather than "the enemy."
I graduated from high school, still a Baptist, though not a particularly devout one anymore. I didn't go to church very often, and I had begun to lose faith; not so much in God as in being Baptist. I felt that there were contradictions between what the Bible says and what the Baptists teach. For instance, Baptists teach that once you are "saved," you are always "saved." That is practically a dogma of the Baptist Church, as well as some other Protestant churches: "once saved, always saved." The problem here, is that there is no support in the Bible for this position. Scripture does refute this position: "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:12, KJV)" (If you notice, I quote from the King James Version of the Bible because it is the universally accepted version of the Bible in Protestant churches.) Considering that a favorite saying of the Baptists was "No creed but the Bible," you can see why I was beginning to be skeptical. Here are some more (though certainly not all) doctrinal paradoxes:
The Baptist Myth
What the (King James) Bible Says
"Alcoholic beverages are inherently bad."
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1 Timothy 5:23, KJV)"
"So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. (John 4:46, KJV)"
"Dancing is bad."
"And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. (2 Samuel 6:14, KJV)"
"Salvation (being saved? occurs in an instant."
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Phillipians 2:12, KJV)"
"We only need Scripture, not traditions."
(This is an attack on the Catholic belief in Sacred Tradition. It is a pillar of the Protestant Reformation known as Sola Scriptura)
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6, KJV)"
"Everyone can interpret Scripture for him/herself."
(In other words, we dont need an authoritative body like the Magisterium, or teaching office, of the Catholic Church to interpret for us.)
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20, KJV)"
"Faith alone, not works, will get you saved."
(This is one of the other main principles of the Protestant Reformation: it is called Sola Fide)
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26, KJV)"
The list is seemingly endless, so Ill stop here. As you can see, many of the beliefs of both the Protestant Reformation in general as well as the Southern Baptist Convention were at odds with the Bible. And not just any Bible, but even the one that the Protestants so cherished! (Rest assured, these verses are not much different in a Catholic Bible.)
At any rate, I was nineteen years old, and attending a major public university. I was exposed to many things that I had never been around before, mostly because my parents were somewhat over-protective of me. I felt quite far from God during my first year in college. Toward the end of my freshman year, my girlfriend from high school, whom I had been dating for over three years, and I broke up. I started dating a younger Catholic girl who lived in the Dallas area. Her uncle was actually a bishop in the northeastern United States. She was not particularly devout, but at the time, it didnt matter to me. Actually, I figured that if we ended up together it would be easy to convert her to Protestantism and away from the Catholic Church. After we had been dating for about a month, her sister was graduating from high school, so I went to see her sisters baccalaureate Mass. I had never been to a Mass before; I had been inside a Catholic church maybe once or twice before in my whole life. When I got home that night, I cried because I thought that since she was Catholic, she would be doomed to Hell if I couldnt help her "see the light". However, the more I thought about what I had seen, the more intrigued I became.
First of all, the Mass was not what I had been told that it was: a pagan ceremony. To those of you reading this who are Catholic, this may seem humorous, but many Protestants, especially those leaning toward "fundamentalism," seem to think that Catholics are pagans or Satan worshippers or something along those lines. I dont know where this myth got started, but I would sure love to put it to rest. For those of you not familiar with the Mass, here is the basic structure:
You'd think apostasy was a new thing.
"It seems standard OP on FR much of the time for alot of vitriol to be directed both at Catholics and Mormons (please excuse if you have great objections to the latter especially). And I mean vitriol. While I dont see enough threads, I have yet to see that heavy and endemic vitriol hurled in other Christian directions."
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm tired of the rampant (unwarranted) bigotry and venom hurled both at Catholics and Mormons here.
Because you made the statement, and I'm not aware of any official Church pronouncement regarding such an understanding.
I would not countenance gratuitious assertions about your theology predicated on untraceable anecdotes; I'd like a substantive explaination on why you've done so with mine.
I don't think you are the only one who gets tired of it.
Amazingly the Catholic Church has survived centuries of such hatred and I think that the Mormon Church will to.
I like the Mormons better because of the people here who attack them ... and Rick Warren, too :-).
My acronym stands for "Scriptural Tourette's Syndrome" and thus does not fall into the category of profanity.
Excellent post.
The very fierce, hostile, super demeaning . . . probably even demonically inspired attacks on Rick Warren and Joel Olsteen
are very incredible, imho.
They are big boys . . . but still . . . it boggles my mind where such feelings originate from given the stimulus.
I would not countenance gratuitious assertions about your theology predicated on untraceable anecdotes; I'd like a substantive explaination on why you've done so with mine.
I'm sorry you have decided that your quarrel is with me. How can someone who's been on this forum for so long be ignorant of the evolutionist/errantist position of most Catholic FReepers? I don't get it. I don't get it at all. All you have to do is read their posts.
There are a few Catholic inerrantists on FR, but you can count them on the fingers of one hand. I wish this weren't so, but it is.
We are at a time when all believers of our Lord Jesus Christ need to come together and seek only Him. We need to encourage others to seek Him while He still may be found. I have learned to only trust His Words. I now understand why he says that no one gets to the Father except through Him.
I have been both Catholic and Baptist. I have seen both apostates and true believers in both denominations. I believe that right now, in this present day, the biggest danger to all believers of Jesus Christ is the ever present compromise of Jesus by these apostates in order to push a relative truth. A false truth where we can all coexist in interfaith dialog under a universalistic works based theology.
That is the bottom line. Will you, as a Christian, put a man made religion, of any religion, of any Christian denomination, before your Savior?
I don't think any of you will. I love you all.
Whoa, Nelly. Try that again, this time accurately: The vast majority of Catholic FReepers believe that God directs evolution, i.e. we believe in Intelligent Design as hypothesized by those legitimate scientists who see that evolution has clearlly occured throughout the Earth's natural history, but believe that "chance" or Darwinian evolution is impossible, and that all creation seems to show the guiding hand of a creator.
If you're saying the vast majority of Catholics reject the totally scientifically unsupported Young Earth silliness that uneducated folks have insinuated into, and therefore severely harmed, the Intelligent Design movement, you're darn right we do. God, in his Almighty wisdom, gave us brains and wants us to use them, and, I would hazard to guess, not to build museums in which Adam and Eve hang out with T. Rex
But what really amazes me and saddens me is that before I joined FR, I truly believed that Catholics and Fundamentalists were compatible. Now I see that Fundamentalists see Catholics as useful idiots to be used in the political process and then consigned to hell as worshippers of a Satan-driven Church. I suppose you could say, therefore, that being on FR has made me more liberal. Like the left-wing, I now wouldn't vote for a Fundamentalist for any reason, but unlike the left-wing, I started out in your corner and you drove me away. I am sure there are some wonderful Fundamentalists on this site who can convince me I'm wrong, but the constant bigotry of folks like the usual suspects (who have, naturally, already posted in this thread), has made me want to steer very clear of the whole movement.
Let me rephrase something. please replace the word "danger" with "challenge".
Danger was not an appropriate word to use in that sentence.
Quix, I know you and I disagree on some stuff. Oh, WELL! Doesn't keep me up at night.
Even when people decide to be bigots ... Okay, knock themselves out. I have to write a skit in Spanish for Girl Scouts by tomorrow at noon.
But then, they expect that *nobody will say anything*! Well, sorry. Earth to Planet Zongo! It's like when I tell my 16-year-old to "wash, rinse, dry, and put away the dishes," and then she's just *astonished* that everything she put in the dishwasher is back in the sink in the morning ...
If somebody decides to be ugly, eventually it's going to come back around.
I'm garbled, I know ... not enough sleep the last few days ... but I just don't understand the hatred. Aren't we all trying to be what we think the Lord wants us to be?
Here's one example of the rejection of total Biblical inerrancy, papertyger.
For what it's worth, cammie, I once believed that Catholics and Fundamentalists were on the same page too. In fact, I was Catholic for six years. But I somehow got the notion that Catholics saw Fundamentalists as "useful idiots" to achieve certain political goals while regarding them as idiots (as you obviously do).
I might add that some may want to try reading this book:
Then I take it by your turning your response directly back at me you do not intend to substantiate the assertion that :
...most Catholics ... feel that in order to be loyal to their church, they must hold the Word of G-d to be full of errors and contradictions.
Young's Literal is only useful if you speak Greek or Hebrew. I wish I read Hebrew -- but I do read Greek and Latin. Worth learning if you want to read the New Testament in the original!
I hope everyone on FR reads this paragraph, and then reads it again, and then reads it again carefully.
If you want to destroy conservatism as an effective political force, drive wedges in it. Drive wedges between Mormon conservatives and everyone else, and tell the Mormons, "Keep out -- you're not wanted here". Drive wedges between Catholic conservatives and everyone else, and tell the Catholics, "Keep out -- you're not wanted here". Drive as many other wedges as you can think of to drive.
Divide and conquer has always worked, and it will always work if it's permitted to.
If you want to know why I voted for Mitt Romney and not Mike Huckabee, you have your answer. I can name 5 or 6 FReepers who alone convinced me to have nothing to do with Huckabee before ever looking at a single one of his positions.
Every one of the 5 or 6 is a vehemently anti-Catholic Protestant.
Would it change anyting about your Confession if I told you of the man I know who has been in a traveling Gospel singing troupe for thirty years that asked me if the book of Romans was in the Old or New Testament?
What about the public school teacher that tried to publicly humiliate my wife as a child because she knew "Son of God" means "God incarnate" and he, as a lifelong Baptist, didn't?
Of course these things aren't going to change the good things you know, just as I will keep the good things I know.
Of what value is holding a doctrine of total biblical inerrancy when it manifests itself as our functionally illiterate brother boldly standing up to proclaim Acts 7:54 of the King James Bible *clearly* proves the Sanhedrin where so mad at Steven they actually bit him!
Would to God we all took Paul's advice about meat sacrificed to idols as a general instead of a specific.
Hatred usually comes out of childhood junk . . . at least at its roots.
But a LOT of fierceness is taken hereon as hatred when it's not—NOT AT ALL. It's just a fiercely intense style of saying profoundly emotional and profoundly important RELIGIOUS/spiritual things.
I think in those cases, folks need to roll with the punche and go on. Either they believe what they believe for good reasons or not. If not . . . change. If so, what does it matter how fiercely intense someone's communicating style is???
People have mocked, derided, been haughty and hostile and even demeaning, insulting and satirical about Pentecostalism all my life. So what. They don't know. Many times they haven't a clue what they are talking about. They certainly haven't traveled my path in my shoes. They certainly weren't there the many times God has met me and my need rather dramatically and miraculously. They weren't there the many times God confirmed a lot of very interesting and startling things in my life. So what.
I'm not going to convince them. And I don't need to take things overly personal.
A lot of RC folks have responded to a lot of my dramatic fierce statements as hatred, etc. etc. etc. But I haven't felt a microgram's worth of such feelings toward ANYONE hereon—at all.
Much of my life is fiercely intense—just the way I'm made. And, I have a very intense pointed fierce communications style—particuarly about things I care deeply about—spiritual things.
But I'm that way teaching my classes—very in-students'-faces—literally—horseshoe seating . . . walking around a lot —off the wall demonstrations and surprises—role playing—satire etc.
But the students know I'm serious, play for keeps AND PARTICULARLY THAT I LOVE EACH ONE OF THEM. Not sure how all that successfully gets across but it does.
Doesn't so easily get across in this text medium. But surprising numbers of even lurkers have noted that it's there.
So, I end up coming back to the conclusion that too many RC's have too thin a skin to detach themselves from the issues and icons and rituals and whatever ENOUGH to take someone else's intense whatevers at it with a grain of salt or whatever.
I find MarkBsnr's hostile stuff toward Prottys ABOUT AS INSULTING, DERISIVE, . . . . whatever . . . that he and his buddy find my words about some RC stuff.
It's just differently put . . . but about as intense and IF I HAD A CHIP ON MY SHOULDER OR THIN SKIN—I'D HAVE JUST AS MUCH CAUSE to get and stay all irate, indignent etc.
But it's not worth it. It's not where my heart is at. Jesus is a Big Guy. He can take care of His priorities far better than I can.
I can speak out as well as I feebly can when I feel so moved. But it's all just noise. Some of it is hopefully noise of some use to some lurkers and maybe some others occasionally. But that' God's affair.
Anyway—I hope you get some rest. If you don't take care of yourself, you can't well take care of anyone else!
I don't know what to do with "bigots" and "fanatics" besides conclude that they evidently believe some things more rigidly and more intensely than I do.
I'm not going to give you the Catechism answer, just something to think about. The saints are with God! It is ONLY through CHRIST that they are in Heaven.
Let's take a purely secular analogy. Say you work at a huge conglomerate and you are at the bottom of the rung, making minimum wage, you have no power or prestige, you are just a little nobody. Then, one day the CEO sees you and just knows that you are someone so he takes you under his wing to show you the ropes. Everyone knows that you're in the office next to the big boss and you are communicating about everything, when you speak everyone listens because they know that, ultimately your words are coming straight from the top. People can ask you for favors because they know you and the boss are tight because the boss chose you to be where you are.
The saints are in Heaven. They are no longer bound by human frailties, they are in the heavenly realm that human minds can't even comprehend. They SEE God! They have power THROUGH GOD! NONE of the saints are in Heaven by their own power but by the grace of God. There is no power besides God but we know that God uses people on earth to further His kingdom, why would he not use the saints in heaven? Emmanuel, God is with us and NOTHING separates us, nothing, God is with us, the saints are with God and therefore with us also.
'Even So then at this Present Time Also there is a Remnant According to the Election of Grace.
And if by Grace, then is it No More of Works; Otherwise Grace is No More Grace.
But if it be of Works, then is it No More Grace: Otherwise Work is No More Work.' (Rom.11:5,6)
OMG, I know just what you mean. I had already felt it with some Fundamentalist friends that I had but they don't have the anonymity of the internet to let it all hang out.
Hey Quix,
did you ever read Eusibius and his History of the Church?
Do yourself a favor and read what he so painstakingly documented on Christian life in the first and second centuries. It is a real eyeopener.
I don't know what "confession" you're talking about, so I don't know how to answer that questiion.
What about the public school teacher that tried to publicly humiliate my wife as a child because she knew "Son of God" means "God incarnate" and he, as a lifelong Baptist, didn't?
What about him? Are you expecting me to defend his public humiliation of your wife or something? Or is that supposed to somehow "prove" that the Bible has errors?
Of course these things aren't going to change the good things you know, just as I will keep the good things I know.
Maybe not, but it wouldn't hurt the two or three Catholic FReepers who do believe in total inerrancy to speak out once in a while instead of allowing the errantists and evolutionists to be the public face of the Catholic Church on FR.
Of what value is holding a doctrine of total biblical inerrancy when it manifests itself as our functionally illiterate brother boldly standing up to proclaim Acts 7:54 of the King James Bible *clearly* proves the Sanhedrin where so mad at Steven they actually bit him!
Anyone functionally illiterate would be unable to read the verse you cite (or any other verse), so I don't understand your point there. But one thing I do believe is that the Catholics of past ages who didn't read the Bible much (note that I didn't say there were "forbidden" to read the Bible; I said they "didn't read it much") were better off for acknowledging that G-d does not lie than the modern Catholic who reads the Bible every day--along with higher critical commentaries written by the likes of Raymond Brown--so that however well he knows the contents he ascribes them to ancient Babylonian mythology adapted much later and then dishonestly attributed to Moses (or Daniel, or whoever). It is one of the greatest tragedies of the Catholic "Biblical movement" that Biblical literacy has been indelibly polluted with "higher criticism." Yes, Catholics who read the Bible but believe it's a forgery are in much worse shape than people who never picked it up but who believed it was inerrant. I suppose you want to argue with me?
Would to God we all took Paul's advice about meat sacrificed to idols as a general instead of a specific.
And now I have no idea what you're talking about.
What about him? I suspect the lifelong Baptist knew that Jesus didn't become incarnate to take multiple wives and father multiple children...
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
- Genesis 6:1-4
I think this is the first time I can remember, when the "Neverending Story" between Calvinists and Catholics has not occupied the majority of the recent posts on the Religion Forum. It appears the Evangelical Protestants v. Mormons is now the leading battle.
We've been supplanted, I'll admit, I am ambivalent, lol.
God Bless
I notice that you place all the burden on Fundamentalist Protestants. Have you ever considered that it is possible for a Catholic or a mormon to be a bigot? Or is this that "poor little minority vs. the masses of illiterate hayseeds" thing again?
It's not as if Fundamentalism owns conservatism. I'd say if conservatism had rulers those rulers would be Catholic rather than Fundamentalist--whether considering William F. Buckley Jr. or the place the Catholic Church holds in the hearts of the "palaeo" worshipers of "western civilization." In fact, the traditional Catholic hostility to Jews and Israel was very dominant in conservatism for a long, long time, despite the fact that pro-Israel Fundamentalists outnumber Catholics in the United States.
I don't suppose the fact that so many Catholics think that people who insist on total Biblical inerrancy are brain-damaged or retarded bothers you in the least? But I forget, I'm addressing the inventor of "Billy Bob's Glory Barn." I forget myself! Blacks can't be racists, and Catholics can't be bigots (except in Spain)!
No, the context was He insisting that my wife's assertions about the Incarnation were wrong.
I did neglect to mention the dispute was in the context of the identity of Christ. Thanks for pointing out my oversight.
Where are you getting this idea that most Catholic Freepers believe in evolution?
I'm puzzled.
**. In fact, I was Catholic for six years.**
Didn't know this about you. You can always come home.
Only a few paragraphs, I think.
Maybe a few pages.
Do you have a handy link.
What would you hope I'd get from such reading?
Your "denomination" or "tradition."
What about him? Are you expecting me to defend his public humiliation of your wife or something? Or is that supposed to somehow "prove" that the Bible has errors?
It is intended to demonstrate theological ignorance is not solely a Catholic fault.
Maybe not, but it wouldn't hurt the two or three Catholic FReepers who do believe in total inerrancy to speak out once in a while instead of allowing the errantists and evolutionists to be the public face of the Catholic Church on FR
You are assuming the Bible is as foundational to Catholics as it is to you: that would be a mistake.
Anyone functionally illiterate would be unable to read the verse you cite...
"Functional illiterate" is not the same as "illiterate." The latter can't read at all, the former can read the words, but doesn't know what they mean.
And now I have no idea what you're talking about.
Paul writes in Corinthians about some brothers being critical of others either because their faith is not as strong, or stronger than our own. This is typified by the controversy over "meat sacrificed to idols." A good modern analogy would be something like the use of alcohol.
Sure, it's possible, but that's not relevant to my point.
Ever heard of the "religious right"? Who do you think wags the tail of that particular dog? It isn't Catholics. Perhaps it should be, but in the real world of real American politics in the late 20th and early 21st Century, it isn't.
I'd say if conservatism had rulers those rulers would be Catholic rather than Fundamentalist
Buckley is hardly a "ruler" of conservatism, unless you conceive of conservatism as some sort of dry intellectual exercise conducted in the pages of a magazine. I don't. Who else? Buchanan? A fringe goofball any more. Sobran? Ditto. Brownback? Good guy, but how far did he get? Nowhere. Who else? Anyone? Buehler?
Know how many Catholic Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidates the Republican party has ever nominated? Oh yeah, that would be *zero*, right?
So much for "ruling" conservatism.
In fact, the traditional Catholic hostility to Jews and Israel was very dominant in conservatism for a long, long time
Yeah, it was accompanied by the traditional country-club Republican hostility to Catholics, or didn't you notice that?!?!.
Sometimes I wonder what world you live in, ZC.
But I forget, I'm addressing the inventor of "Billy Bob's Glory Barn."
Speaking of which: Wrong, buddy. My only connection with that was that I found someone else's joke amusing. I guess I've now morphed in your mind into the inventor of same. Whatever.
Of course it is possible for both to be true. HOWEVER, most Catholics and Mormons on this site came here with the same opinion I did - that we are all of a piece, and that our similarities far outweigh our differences. I still feel that way about Mormons and the mainstream Protestants on this site, but I no longer believe that about Fundamentalists; I feel that I have been rudely awakened as to the truth of the Fundamentalist movement. The simple fact is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a Catholic thread around here without some virulently anti-Catholic Fundamentalist barging in with a "whore of Babylon" story or other. I assume the same is universally true on Mormon-related threads. You will not find such to be true on the Fundamentalist threads. The fight-picking around here is nearly always done by Fundamentalist Protestants on threads dealing with Catholicism. Perhaps if you steered clear of Catholic threads and talk amongst your own we wouldn't have these issues? Like Campion, I out-of-hand rejected voting for Mike Huckabee for exactly the samer reasons he stated.
I don't regard Fundamentalists as idiots. Prior to my joining FR, I regarded you as my fellow Christians. Now I regard you as dangerous to the ideals of American democracy. And as I said, I hope that view is only formed by the few uninformed Fundamentalists who troll every Catholic thread looking for trouble, but you have all formed that view in me. So be it.
What about the letters to the 7 churches mentioned in Revelation? How do you view those?
Thanks for your encouragements, Dear Sister in Christ.
the way "Christians" rant and rave about petty chaff
DISTINCTIVES of their RELIGIOUS CLUB
I suspect God is thoroughly disgusted with CLUB BRAND names on church doors and church yards.
His Son didn't die for ego-driven pettiness.
Some differences are substantial and deserve their distinctive treatments . . .
But so many are just noise, chaff . . . originated in political ego driven conflicts and perpetuated in much the same or a similar spirit, imho.
To think God has any respect for such over his 2 HIGH PRIORITY COMMANDMENTS . . . is, imho, delusional.
Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Revelation 2:1-5
My explanation is that they are given a special grace by Christ to do so.
Excellent points :-).
Thanks for your kind words. I hope you got some good rest!
Have a blessed Wed.
Good Post and Well Said --
Not as much as I should have. I dreamed about some people I haven't seen in over 15 years, and spent some time praying for them.
I appreciate what you said about being passionate and dramatic, and how that's not the same as being angry or hostile. It can be so easy to misunderstand, particularly in this text-only medium.
I hope you have a terrific day!
"I see now that Toplady was a contemporary of Wesley, so that might explain the passion. After all, Charles Wesley at the time was spouting Calvin was the first born son of the devil. Im sure they all have time to reflect on this now in Gods presence where no doubt Wesley is being schooled by Whitfield, Calvin, Augustine and the Apostle Paul. ;-)"
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text: I have the shortcode <?php echo do_shortcode('[testimonial_rotator id=57]'); ?> inside of a PHP code widget 2.1 widget. When the page first loads only a single testimonial displays and they display in sequence properly. But when the page is refreshed, it flashes the display of all testimonials at once, before then rotating through displaying them one at a time. How do I stop that from occurring on a page refresh?


text:
Faried's Oop Dunk
Iguodala Finds McGee
Nuggets vs. Bocats: First half
Nuggets vs. Wizards
Denver D
Nuggets vs. Wizards: First half
Protecting paint key for Nuggets in rematch with Wizards
The paint is where the Denver Nuggets like to inflict punishment.
On Jan. 18 against the Washington Wizards, it was a late-game source of pain.
Washington's final four baskets came inside the paint, and the Wizards also had two critical offensive rebounds in a 112-108 victory over Denver at Pepsi Center.
"They beat us up inside," Nuggets coach George Karl said.


text:
Where The Wild Things Are
Similar Titles | Children's, Picture Books On Video, family, forgiveness, friendship, storytelling, imagination, fantasy, creature, book to film, runaway, literary classics, bedtime, dream sequence
Max is the hero of this beloved children's classic in which he makes mischief, sails away, tames the wild things and returns home for supper. Video features music and narration by Peter Schickele.
This title is available for 72 hours after you borrow it. This title is available for streaming and downloading (mobile devices only).
"...a zesty interpretation of this timeless tale. "
"Children and adults alike will relish this viewing experience."
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Eddie Murphy & Ben Stiller Clown On Rick Ross' Seizure!! [Video]
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Who is the interviewer with the hairline pushed back further than the NBA season? He should go ahead and cut that off… it starts at his ears!


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The deal will make Reactiv the largest single shareholder in the ambitious club.
Chairman Michael Steele said: "Tony has made a major contribution to the club in his four years associated with it, and we're delighted to have his support and contribution."
He added: "Whilst we have a robust business consistently generating modest profits in difficult circumstances, working capital is always an issue, and this investment will be a significant boost to the club."
Abbott said: "I am determined to see Halifax RLFC back where we know they belong, in Super League."
- Sports & Recreation


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Belle's feelings for Alex being to affect her work performance, and the timing of her problem couldn't possibly be worse.
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text:
Waiting for Godot
by Samuel Beckett
Character Analysis
Pozzo: God or Not?
Pozzo is tyrannical, cruel, focused only on himself, and seems to possess some sort of mystical watch. But one thing at a time—we'll get to the weird watch in a minute. The first thing that happens when Pozzo comes on stage is that Estragon mistakes him for Godot. A lot. The name mix-up that follows practically begs us to compare Pozzo and Godot, which we will gladly do.
Godot, as we talk about in his character analysis, is an absent deity. Pozzo, too, seems sort of like a God: he has complete control over Lucky, he tells the men the land is his, laughs at the thought that they are the same species as himself, and even outright says that he is "not particularly human." But if Pozzo is a god, we have to reconcile that with his being—what was it? Oh, yes, "tyrannical, cruel, and focused only on himself."
This is a very different kind of god than we imagine Godot (Godot, get it?) being. One popular scholarly belief is that Godot is the Christian God—he's omniscient, uninvolved, and without human form or characteristics. Pozzo, on the other hand, is like something out of Greek mythology. He is subject to the same emotions as people are, has the same character flaws, and is motivated by selfish concerns. The only difference between him and a mere mortal is his power. What do you think—does that sound reasonable?
But if Pozzo has divine power, it is certainly limited. His memory is defective, he's helpless, needs to be asked to sit down, can't rise to his feet without assistance, and is dependent on the presence of others for any sort of function ("I cannot go long without the society of my likes" (1.336), he says). He even credits Lucky with having taught him all he knows. Pozzo may be a god, but if so, he sure is an imperfect one.
Pozzo O'Clock
And for a powerful being, Pozzo is incredibly bogged down in the same inane trivialities as Vladimir and Estragon. His vaporizer plays the same role as Estragon's boots: an everyday object that occupies an absurd amount of his time and without which he cannot function. Losing his watch devastates Pozzo and may even have something to do with his going blind.
What? Losing the watch makes Pozzo go blind?
Sure does. Observe:
1) Pozzo is a strict believer in his ability to understand and measure time. He asks how old Vladimir is, he consults his watch to determine how many years have passed (sixty) since he supposedly stopped being trivial, he rhapsodizes on twilight (a temporal grey area between day and night), he functions by a "schedule," and he tells Vladimir to believe whatever he likes except the notion that time has stopped.
2) Pozzo loses his watch. He thinks he hears it ticking, but discovers that is in fact only the human heartbeat. Time isn't controllable anymore because he's now forced to measure it in terms of human life—the counting down of a pumping heart. This is a terrifying thought (and Pozzo even cries out "Damnation!"). A pumping human heart can only mean one thing: that heart will, at one point in time, stop pumping.
3) In fact, this thought is so terrifying that Pozzo decides to become blind.
Yes, that's right: he decides to go blind. Vladimir points out at the end of Act 2 that Pozzo may have been faking... and from what we've seen, we know that suffering in Waiting for Godot is self-imposed. We have no trouble, then, convincing ourselves that Pozzo has caused his own blindness. He has chosen to be blind because he doesn't want to face the fact of his own ticking heart.
Does this seem like a long-shot? A stretch, perhaps? Does it seem like time has nothing to do with sight? Look at Pozzo's violent outbursts in response to Vladimir's questioning of when he went blind:
(violently) Don't question me! The blind have no notion of time. The things of time are hidden from them too. (2.702)
Pozzo himself makes the explicit connection between his going blind and his refusal to deal with time—what has become for him a ticking clock measuring out the remainder of his own life. He chooses to be blind because it means he can stop thinking about time (and, consequently, his own inevitable death). The same goes for Lucky becoming mute; the only time Lucky speaks in the entire play is when Pozzo commands him to speak. We have little to reason to believe that Lucky lost his ability to vocalize—if he is a mute, it is because Pozzo chooses not to hear him speak (perhaps because he'll end up talking about time again).
Pozzo even goes so far as to blame time for the meaninglessness of life. Vladimir will disagree with him and blame habit ("the great deadener"), but Pozzo is quite adamant that the fleeting, transient nature of one man's existence makes it impossible for that man to have any purpose:
(suddenly furious) Have you not done tormenting me with your accursed time! It's abominable! When! When! One day, is that not enough for you, one day he went dumb, one day I went blind, one day we'll go deaf, one day we were born, one day we shall die, the same day, the same second, is that not enough for you? (Calmer.) They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more. (He jerks the rope.) On! (2.773)
Pozzo envisions a baby being born into the air above a grave; his life is the amount of time that passes during his fall from the birth canal into the ground below him. Ugh. That's grim. But it also reminds us that life is too short to not eat that pint of Ben and Jerry's in the freezer.Pozzo Timeline