text:
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- 1 Only five English words?
- 2 QWERTY Spelling
- 3 Excellent Resource
- 4 Keyboard diagram
- 5 "h" looks like "n," "j" like "i," etc.
- 6 Fast enough
- 7 Two unsubstantiated claims
- 8 Improper phrasing
- 9 Backslash Key
- 10 Purpose
- 11 UK-Extended Keyboard
- 12 Alternatives to QWERTY
- 13 Clarity of "0" and "1"
- 14 Half-qwerty image
- 15 "QWERTY not made to avoid jamming."
- 16 Remington No. 389
- 17 ASDF ocurence
- 18 Bias
- 19 Y as a vowel?
- 20 Source
- 21 Introduction
- 22 Backquote not a "dead key"
- 23 An illustration of the first keyboard
- 24 Qwerty and Azerty
- 25 Previous keyboards
- 26 Deleted section "effects" on "negative connotations"
- 27 Is there a QWERTY copyright?
- 28 International variants - move to separate article
- 29 Could modern computers be made without QWERTY?
- 30 New historical research challenges "slow the operator down" story
- 31 Contrary to Popular Belief
- 32 Home Row
- 33 Fixed font or picture to display layouts?
- 34 UK-extended - in two places?
- 35 Persian keyboard?
- 36 Where's the French standard?
- 37 QWERTY is not from International Telegraph Alphabet No. 2
- 38 Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2014
- 39 Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2014
- 40 Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2014
- 41 US International in the Netherlands.
- 42 This is JUNK Keyboard :(
- 43 Canadian Multilingual Standard?
- 45 Alternative historical explanation
- 46 Properties / teh
- 47 Memories of Old Typewriter Keyboards
- 48 External links modified
Only five English words?[edit]
"...there are only 5 English words that can be spelled using just the letters in the top row: perpetuity, prerequire, proprietor, repertoire, and typewriter." Oh, yeah! Obviously tree, pet, pretty, propriety, require, type, writer (and hundreds more) aren't English words then, right?
This only proves my theory: Wikipedia editors are morons. And they protect pages so that their moronic articles stay untouched... in perpetuity.
Mmmmmm no. It says 5 Ten letter words. Who's the moron now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:08, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
QWERTY Spelling[edit]
May I know why someone is documenting how to spell a word that is on the screen? (first line). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:25, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Excellent Resource[edit]
I'm surprised the following article has not been referenced:
QWERTY keyboard: A review. Noyes, J INT. J. MAN-MACH. STUD. Vol. 18, no. 3, pp. 265-281. 1983
Abstract: The standard typewriter keyboard (nicknamed QWERTY) was designed over a century ago. During this time, QWERTY has become a controversial issue, because many individuals feel that the sequential keyboard market is being monopolized by a sub-optimum layout. Despite these feelings, in 1971 the International Standards Organization recognized QWERTY as the standard keyboard, and a year later Alden, Daniels & Kanarick (1972) concluded that QWERTY was "the de facto standard layout for communications and computer interface keyboards". This article reviews the origins of the QWERTY keyboard, and other sequential keyboards which have been developed since 1909. The reasoning behind the design of these other keyboards and the subsequent impact they made on the keyboard world are discussed. Various explanations are suggested as to why this previous research has not had any effect on the design of the QWERTY keyboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Good resource indeed. Here is another reference that future editors might want to look at:
Paul A. David. 1997. Path Dependence and the Quest for Historical Economics: One More chorus of Ballad of QWERTY. Economics Group, Nuffield College, University of Oxford http://ideas.repec.org/p/nuf/esohwp/_020.html (Accessed December 8, 2009).
This ref is of relevance in particular with regard to the debate on efficiency in the final section and the suggestion that the work of Liebowitz and Margolis [2] represents more rigorous research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:04, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
In the end of the first paragraph, there is an unsupported claim as to the rational for a non-optimized standardization, Economic efficiency has been idealized and imagined to exist where good the economic reality does not support it being the rational; there for economically optimized selection of key board lay out. technological, behavioral lock-in and technological pathway dependency are similar effects to the reference of network theory. I would like to see this expanded upon perhaps in a subjection and remove the unsupported inference to efficiency. Tests have been done to show typing speed which is a principle indicator of keyboard output. There is a contradiction in the reasoning that is applied and the reference to network theory. It seems like network theory is the social manifestation of the phenomena. I very much like this quote from David (1985) "I believe there are many more QWERTY worlds lying out there in the past, at the very edges of the modern economic analyst's tidy universe; worlds we do not yet fully perceive or understand, but whose influence1 like that of dark stars, extends nonetheless to shape the visible orbits of our contemporary economic affairs. Most of the time I feel sure that the absorbing delights and quiet terrors of exploring QWERTY worlds will suffice to draw adventurous economists into the systematic study of essentially historical dynamic processes, and so will seduce them into the ways of economic history, and a. better grasp of their subject." Alaskanwarrior (talk) 03:49, 22 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alaskanwarrior (talk • contribs) 03:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Keyboard diagram[edit]
I'm of the DIY school of Wikipedia editing, but I'm not sure how to go about this. Not everyone has the QWERTY layout printed on their keyboard keycaps. Shouldn't the article include a diagram of the keyboard layout, like most other articles? —INTRIGUEBLUE (talk|contribs) 22:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
- There is one in the Computer keyboards section. I don't know why it's so tiny as to be unreadable, though. Shreevatsa (talk) 23:19, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
"h" looks like "n," "j" like "i," etc.[edit]
Was the QWERTY keyboard arranged so that letters that looked like each other were closer together?
B is like H, N is kind of like H, R is maybe a little like F, and E like R. But probably it's just coicindence and the ones that don't look like each other are more frequently together than those that do.
By the way, IE8 CANNOT handle a lot of text on screen. Right now in this discussion/edit box, it's typing really, really slow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:00, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
- No. As the article states, the QWERTY keyboard layout was designed to prevent mechanical keys from jamming. That meant using a configuration that slowed typists down somewhat, since typing too fast was one of the things that caused jamming. As the article notes, the mechanical jamming issues have been otherwise resolved, and QWERTY is merely a legacy of the early days of the typewriter. There have been many keyboard designs which are demonstrated to be faster than QWERTY, because the other keyboard designs are optimized purely for human speed without regard to the mechanics of early typewriters. One reason these others have not caught on is that it has been shown that QWERTY-trained touch typists do not become faster when retrained on a different keyboard, since it is impossible for touch typists to completely unlearn the QWERTY training. This has been studied as an example of the "installed base" advantage, of which another notable example is Microsoft Windows. (Software designed for Windows typically performs sub-optimally when "ported" to another operating system. Thus, technically better-performing operating systems do not supplant Windows in the marketplace because of the advantage Windows enjoys in terms of the installed base of compatible software.)
- Bob99 (talk) 17:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
- Your two statements:
- "the QWERTY keyboard layout was designed to prevent mechanical keys from jamming."
- "That meant using a configuration that slowed typists down somewhat,"
- Don't hold up. The first is true, but the second isn't a corollary of that. The point of the QWERTY layout isn't to slow anyone down, it's to carry on working at full speed whilst avoiding the type bar clashing problem. It does this by trying to keep the most common sequentially-used typebars physically separated from each other. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
- If any of this is really true about the design of the QWERTY keyboard, why are "E" and "R" next to each other? These are extremely commonly used next to each other in English and other Romance languages, and I remember from typewriter days of having trouble with words like "here" and "there" causing type bars to clash and get stuck. If the QWERTY designer was really trying to avoid that, I'd say he failed. Jpp42 (talk) 06:19, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
- Your two statements:
I'd have to disagree with the statement "QWERTY-trained touch typists do not become faster when retrained on a different keyboard, since it is impossible for touch typists to completely unlearn the QWERTY training." I learned to touch-type on a QWERTY keyboard in 1967 and spent quite a few years earning my living from the QWERTY keyboard. In 1986 I trained myself to use the Malt Layout
I was still able to use the QWERTY layout and for about 5 or so years after I was still able to exceed 50 words per minute touch typing, without any difficulty. In 2010 I can still use QWERTY, though I prefer (and choose) not to. There was no question of "unlearning" QWERTY since it was never "replaced" by Maltron, but was in "parallel"*.
I've now moved on to "touch typing" in software based shorthand (on the Maltron keyboard), and I've certainly trebled my QWERTY speed.
On Edit: 21 Jun. *My first MALTRON keyboard had a switchable QWERTY/MALTRON layout with dual-engraved keytops and I made a deliberate decision when I started using the MALTRON keyboard to use the Malt layout. Because of the vast difference between the 3D curves of the MALTRON keyboard and the flat QWERTY keyboard, and the resultant kinaesthetic muscle memory essential for touch typing, there is little or no confusion between the two keyboards, any more than there is confusion between a QWERTY computer keyboard and a musical instrument keyboard.
Proword (talk) 07:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Fast enough[edit]
I guess it's just my opinion, and since it's just my opinion it doesn't matter, but I think QWERTY keyboards type plenty fast. I already type too fast on them, frequently typing words I didn't mean to (not typos, exactly, because they're spelled correctly and the grammar usually stays fine). So for me the problem is that I wish the keys were harder to hit, like on a typewriter. But maybe if I switched to such a thing I'd regret it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Two unsubstantiated claims[edit]
The article makes two claims for which no citation is provided.
1. "it was designed to prevent jams while typing at speed"
The prevent jams bit is correct. The "while typing at speed" is unsubstantiated. The article cited and linked to, aside from the fact that it's not terribly scholarly, mentions nothing about facilitating speeds, simply about reducing jamming. Sure, the obvious inference is that spending less time unjamming means spending more time typing (resulting in an effective speed increase), but that's not the same claim.
Moved the footnote reference from speed to jams; added "citation needed" after speed.
2. "enabling salesmen to impress customers by pecking out the brand name "TYPE WRITER" from one keyboard row"
Aside from the issue of why pecking out "typewriter" from a single row should impress anyone, there is no citation for this claim. Added "citation needed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by CNJECulver (talk • contribs) 12:50, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Again leaving aside the question of "why", is there any necessity for a citation? The simple, observable fact is that, regardless of the intention of the design, the word "TYPEWRITER" can be typed (by anybody) on a single row of keys, with a single finger.
Proword (talk) 01:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the claim that he struggled for "60 million years" is also stretching the truth a bit. Someone want To Change That ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:41, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
More dubious claims are found in the Effects section. Although this refers to genuine research, it is quite controversial - the results in the individual languages did not reach the level of statistical significance. There's a blog about it here: http://chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2012/03/15/bad-science-reporting-effect/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Physicsisshiny (talk • contribs) 01:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Having TYPEWRITER on the top keys cannot be anything but a bit of deliberate whimsy, and if this is 'unsubstantiated' then how about using common sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:42, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Improper phrasing[edit]
I object to this phrasing:
"While it is often said that QWERTY was designed to "slow down" typists, this is incorrect – it was designed to prevent jams[1]"
It is not incorrect to say this if it was designed to prevent jam's, as a jam only occurred when you pressed two keys in rapid succession. You could say speed up bumps were designed to prevent accidents and NOT to slow down cars, which would be nonsense because going FAST over speed bumps wouldn't really be safe. It's simply not fair to say it's INCORRECT. None of the citations reference original designers or quotes about their intentions so the word "designed" is questionable.
A better wording would be:
While it is often said that QWERTY was designed to "slow down" typists, there is no documentation to support the claim this was an intentional design decision. The inefficient layout does help prevent jams in "up-stoke" models.
Stevemulligan (talk) 13:02, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
- I'd agree there. Certainly such a statement is not NPOV. Why did you do it (talk) 21:26, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
- I've gone ahead and removed it. Besides, the source that was cited doesn't conform to the reliable sources guidelines. Why did you do it (talk) 21:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
In September 1977 Lillian Malt presented a paper to a conference of PIRA - the Printing Industry Research Association - in which, on page 1, she says:
"One piece of equipment which is universally recognised as being ill-fitted to human operation is the ubiquitous typewriter keyboard. The standard Scholes-designed keyboard with its qwerty layout, must be one of the very few pieces of equipment which has entirely resisted improvement, which could and should have been made to complement our advancing technological ability.
It has been said of the Scholes letter layout that it would probably have been chosen if the objective was to find the least efficient - in terms of learning time and speed achievable - and the most error producing character arrangement. This is not surprising when one considers that a team of people spent one year developing this layout so that it should provide the greatest inhibition to fast keying. This was no Machiavellian plot, but necessary because the mechanism of the early typewriters required slow operation."
This would seem to be a fairly reliable source.
Proword (talk) 03:02, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Backslash Key[edit]
The "standard layout" shown has an enlarged enter key and the backslash key to the left of the backspace key. But most keyboards (e.g., Dell, HP, IBM, Apple, Matias, iHome, LifeWorks, Advanced Logic Research) have the backslash to the right of the right bracket key, and this goes back to PS/2 keyboards. Somebody should update the layout or show both variants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 00:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
What is the justification for stating that being able to type many words using only the left hand helps left-handed people?
For someone who actually can type with both hands, the typical reason to type one-handed temporarily is to free up the other hand to do something else like turn a page, adjust the mouse position (on a computer), etc. Most people use their dominant hand for that, so freeing up the right hand and typing with the left is more advantageous for a right-hander. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 00:57, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest that given the minuscule amount of time a typist would spend typing "one-handed" (using a mouse, turn a page etc) there would be no advantage for "right-handers" in this situation. The mouse is a device which is used to perform tasks which cannot be performed as easily (if at all) by keystrokes.
Proword (talk) 01:59, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
UK-Extended Keyboard[edit]
Can somebody check the keyboard shortcuts for typing letters with accents? I believe that in many of the listed cases Ctrl should be used instead of AltGr. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Alternatives to QWERTY[edit]
It says:" I love you!!!! " at the end of this chapter, i welcome it but not so sure that is the right place for that phrase. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 12:21, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
At the bottom of the subtopic header there is a link to footnote reference ten. I am going to replace this link with a citation needed template as there is conflicting (or mis-sourced) data contained within the link. The data is as follows:
There is no mention of Blickensderfer in the immediate link. There may be a mention within the article, but that requires a membership, and;
In the link they make mention of Dvorak, which had the reported '70% of English words on the home-row' within the line 'aoeuidhtns' according to a link shared on the Dvorak page as a source, featured on Discover Magazine.
The removal of the 70% line may or may not be necessary pending a more tributable source. Typenolies (talk) 04:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Clarity of "0" and "1"[edit]
The original presentation is cited thus:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - ,
However, the article then suggests that the patented version of 1878 did not include "0" or "1". I would assume by this that the original design *did* include the "1", but it was removed in 1878? If so, should this be made clearer? 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC) Woops, should have logged in... This comment is from me Nsmith 84 (talk) 15:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Half-qwerty image[edit]
I've just restored the half-qwerty image The silent gnome removed. Eir edit summary was "Removed pic. The description is clear enough, the pic isn't and it messes up the page."[1] I personally find the picture useful; it makes it immediately obvious what is being described, without needing to read the detail of the text at all. I have, at the same time fixed up the layout. —me_and 23:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
- I too found the pic useful. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
"QWERTY not made to avoid jamming."[edit]
" Contrary to two common misconceptions - the QWERTY letter arrangement was not derived to slow down typists nor to avoid jamming.[1]" CITES: http://yasuoka.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html
The "not to avoid jamming it" bit goes against everything I've ever read on the subject. Not saying it necessarily wrong, I think it should have a better citation than a random blog on the subject. The claims of Research Papers on typing, etc., should be presented in the opening paragraph. A "other claims" section would be fine, but elsewhere on the page.
126.96.36.199 (talk) 18:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
- Done clearly a dubious citation, and it certainly contradicts other sources. —me_and 19:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be controversy on this. E.G., this presents evidence that preventing jamming was NOT a criteria: http://repository.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2433/139379/1/42_161.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Remington No. 389[edit]
"Remington No. 2 and No. 3 and No. 389 of 1878" seems kidding. What's Remington No. 389?--22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:44, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
ASDF ocurence[edit]
I added the folowing observation to the entry refering to the QWERTY keyboard on the asdf page: "this sequence of four characters may often be observed as meaningless text input, by itself or followed by other characters, (where any random sequence would suffice), with the possible explanation that this type of keyboard is the most popular, the user's right hand might mostly be on the mouse (or a similar device) and these four characters are the most accessible alphanumeric characters to the left hand with respect to the fingers used in typing" It might not be the apropriate place for such an observation, but I think it's worth mentioning. I often heard programmers saying "Don't use 'asdf', use something meaningfull". My personal perception is that people use it as a jargon, and if right, it's also worth mentioning. However, I think that the place of the observation should be on the QWERTY keyboard page and the entry should link there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 19:47, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Once again, approved Wikipedians concur that 'God's in his Heaven and all's well with the world.' In this instance, the article, from the outset, favours QWERTY over its rivals, on the basis of flimsy evidence: two named economists in a referenced link which can be accessed only by subscribers (is it even proper for Wikipedian 'evidence' to depend on a subscription-only link? Is a subscription-only link indeed acceptable evidence?). Having thus expressed bias in favour of the QWERTY layout, the article naively ignores and omits to mention the enormous commercial interests presumably (if quietly) in play between rival keyboard layouts, making its casual, predictably conservative bias particularly ill-advised and foolish.--220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Y as a vowel?[edit]
Perhaps someone could come up with a definitive (ie: non Wikipedia) reference that actually states Y "can be a vowel" as Opera hat suggests. At best, I found http://www.reference.com/browse/y which states it is a semi-vowel - If Opera hat is correct, this would mean a semi-circle "can be a circle" also... a a semi-detatched house can be a "detatched house also". Additionally, on reverting my edit, he suggests I read up on "VOWEL" and gives a Wikipedia link (is referencing Wikipedia an acceptable source anyway?).
The article states "There is not necessarily a direct one-to-one correspondence between the vowel sounds of a language and the vowel letters. Many languages that use a form of the Latin alphabet have more vowel sounds than can be represented by the standard set of five vowel letters." thus clearly indicating not only 5 vowels, but that a vowel sound does not HAVE to use vowels to be produced. MrZoolook (talk) 02:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Obviously no evidence is forthcomming. MrZoolook (talk) 08:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
- No - it means that vowel letters can stand for more than one sound (got and go, for example), and that combinations of vowel letters with other vowel/consonant letters can make a variety of sounds (met and meat/meet, moot, cat, cart etc.) I can't think of an English word that creates a vowel sound without using a, e, i, o, u or y. As for your logic about if semi-vowel=vowel then semi-circle=circle, this depends on treating language as if it were built up entirely from small units of consistent meaning. It isn't. Compare half-pint, which is not a pint, and half-bottle, which is still a bottle, only a small one. The letter "Y" in English functions as both a consonant and a vowel - such as in the word "yearly". The problem is not that Y is in some strange uncertain quantum state, it's that our division of letters into vowels and consonants can't be made absolutely cleanly.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 09:35, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
- At least in french:
- * 6 voyelles écrites : A, E, I, O, U, Y.
- * 16 voyelles phonétiques, ou vocoïdes : a, ɑ, e, ɛ, i, o, ɔ, u, y, ə, œ, ø, ɑ̃, ɔ̃, ɛ̃, œ̃. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Source 6 references in this former paragraph below is a blog
Sholes struggled for the next five years to perfect his invention, making many trial-and-error rearrangements of the original machine's alphabetical key arrangement. His study of letter-pair frequency by educator Amos Densmore, brother of the financial backer James Densmore, is believed to have influenced the arrangement of letters,[5] but called in question [6]
^ Yasuoka [1]
I have therefore edited the paragraph to read.
Sholes struggled for the next five years to perfect his invention, making many trial-and-error rearrangements of the original machine's alphabetical key arrangement. His study of letter-pair frequency by educator Amos Densmore, brother of the financial backer James Densmore, is believed to have influenced the arrangement of letters[5]. However this is called into question elsewhere 'citation needed'
Can someone stick in the 'Citation needed' in the right format
SeldomSerious (talk) 22:19, 25 August 2011 (UTC)Seldom Serious
"particularly in the United States" doesn't sound correct... I think the QWERTY keyboard has been universally adopted in all English speaking countries. I don't see why the US is specifically mentioned. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 01:00, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Backquote not a "dead key"[edit]
I would suggest that Backquote is not a "dead key" - when typed on its own it generates a ` symbol, which at the very least is used in LaTeX to represent an open quote. The Wikipedia entry for Dead Keys states, "The dead key does not generate a (complete) character by itself", which doesn't hold for the Backquote key. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 13:22, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
An illustration of the first keyboard[edit]
Here is an illustration of keybord, on page 195 http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6212491s/f211.image They say that before, some keyboards were circular.
Titre : La Télégraphie à l'exposition universelle de 1867 Éditeur : imp. Impériale (Paris) Date d'édition : 1869 Type : monographie imprimée Langue : Français Format : Gr. in-8° (4°) Format : application/pdf Droits : domaine public Identifiant : ark:/12148/bpt6k6212491s Source : Bibliothèque nationale de France, département Littérature et art, V-17654 Relation : http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb336228498 Provenance : bnf.fr Date de mise en ligne : 16/07/2012
Qwerty and Azerty[edit]
Artile gives:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 -
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - ,
It is often say that Azerty comes from Qwerty. But it looks closer from the previous one, no?
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - ,
Previous keyboards[edit]
When this article deals with the Murray Qwerty Keyboard; it might make sense to indicate that other keyboard were considered before, such as explained in Ticker Tape page article (See Illustration). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 09:27, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Deleted section "effects" on "negative connotations"[edit]
I've just deleted the section of the article entitled "Effects". It's based on only one source, a blog post at [2] which doesn't look at all reliable to me. The original paper [3] talks about the "emotional valence" of words, which I think isn't the same as "connotations". And the research has been strongly challenged at [4]. If we're to cover this topic on Wikipedia, we need to give due emphasis to both sides of the debate. But personally I don't think it's significant enough to deserve coverage here, unless further and more reliable sources can be found. Jowa fan (talk) 02:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
Is there a QWERTY copyright?[edit]
Is there a copyright on the original QWERTY keyboard layout still extant? I raise this question not merely by way of 'original research,' but because, if there were still in existence such a copyright, still accumulating royalties to a current copyright owner, this would clearly have huge potential implications in terms of their continuing accumulation of wealth and power to influence/suppress customer choice of keyboard layout.--188.8.131.52 (talk) 22:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- IANAL. Copyright duration depends on country. However, the article states:
The QWERTY layout became popular with the success of the Remington No. 2 of 1878,
- Something copyright in 1878, in the US for example, is now in the public domain. (See Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Duration_of_copyright) I expect that other countries would also have long since expired. You may also be thinking about patents: those are 20 years in the US, so again, long expired.
- Deathanatos (talk) 08:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
International variants - move to separate article[edit]
I don't think that this edit listing all of the international variants (the content was moved from Keyboard layout#QWERTY was a good idea, as it clutters the QWERTY article unnecessarily. I suggest that the text should be in a separate article, with a summary in both QWERTY and Keyboard layout. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:59, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Could modern computers be made without QWERTY?[edit]
I heard on The World at One on Saint George's Day 2013 that modern computers could be made without the familiar QWERTYUIOP keyboard - if any one knows anything about this, it could go in the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
- It's covered by QWERTY#Alternatives to QWERTY. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
New historical research challenges "slow the operator down" story[edit]
Recently, new historical research has come out debunking the idea that the keys were arranged to slow people down, rather it was designed to assist the first customers - telegraph operators.
News coverage on the research: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/qwerty-keyboard_n_3223611.html?ir=Technology
PDF on the research: http://repository.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2433/139379/1/42_161.pdf
--Wowaconia (talk) 20:23, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
From Huffingtonpost:
Most of us were taught that the man who invented the keyboard created the QWERTY design to slow typists down. This popular theory was just debunked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Proword (talk • contribs) 03:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
The paper by Lillian Malt referred to above
is a refereed paper submitted to the Printing Industry Research Association in 1977, and shows quite plainly that this Huffington article is false. The story is NOT an urban myth. Whether Malt's assertions are correct is a different matter altogether. However, if anything she presented in her paper was incorrect, it would not have been accepted for presentation. Proword (talk) 03:53, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Contrary to Popular Belief[edit]
Contrary to popular belief[5], the QWERTY layout was not designed to slow the typist down
This expression should removed as it is merely unsupported assertion, and cannot be verified in line with Wiki guidelines.
I would suggest that it be rewritten:
Some have claimed that the QWERTY keyboard was designed to "provide the greatest inhibition to fast keying"[1] while others say that this is merely an urban legend.
Proword (talk) 08:42, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Home Row[edit]
There is an unspoken assumption in this article that the "home row" is the central row of letters or the second row up from the space bar.
Almost every word in the English language contains at least one vowel, but on the QWERTY keyboard only the vowel "A" is located on the home row, which requires the typist's fingers to leave the home row for most words.
This makes it sound as if the design of the keyboard was so poor as to have one common vowel on the well-established "home row". The fact that touch typists today are trained to think of this as the "home row" is merely a convention that has resulted from this having been found to be the best way to teach typing.
I don't have a direct citation, but I did read once that the presence of all the vowels on the top row was because, when it was first designed, it was the top row that was thought of as the "home row" by the designers (who weren't after all trained touch-typists or expert ergonomists, but making the first mechanical writing machine). Other alternatives to QWERTY definitely thought of the top row as the home row, placing the least common letters on the bottom, most difficult to reach, row. (Possibly I'm thinking here of the DHIATENSOR on which the home row was the bottom row.) Silas Maxfield (talk) 18:05, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Fixed font or picture to display layouts?[edit]
The boxes on the page that display the evolution of the layout are confusing. They use a proportional font which does not preserve the alignment of the characters at the right ends of each row. For example, on a real QWERTY keyboard, the 8 key is above and to the right of the U key, but in the article, it is shown as to the left of the U. Similar, the L is below and right of the O, but in the article it is left of the O.
These could be fixed by using either (a) a monospaced font, or (b) an image, instead of a proportional font.
Any reason not to? Marzolian (talk) 07:37, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
UK-extended - in two places?[edit]
Section 18.104.22.168 seems largely to duplicate the section near the top; some rationalisation is probably desirable.
G6JPG188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Persian keyboard?[edit]
The section on the Romanized Persian keyboard says nothing about it being QWERTY, and the image is of the standard Persian keyboard (which , transliterated, is more like ZSSGhFKh).
22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:36, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Where's the French standard?[edit]
Under Canada it's mentioned that French Canada uses a different system than France does. However the French keyboard isn't anywhere in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:43, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
QWERTY is not from International Telegraph Alphabet No. 2[edit]
I think this should be included in the article, if it can be found in a published source. I was just doing analysis on ITA2 and realized that when the numbers are put in order, they spell QWERTY, so I got excited. But then reading the "Donald Murray" article, it becomes apparent that ITA2 is based on QWERTY, not the other way around. From this article, it's apparent that QWERTY is based on arranging symbols so that common letters are spaced out and don't jam the works of the typewriter. I also wanted to put this here in the Talk so that should someone else find this, they'd be the faster to realize what's going on.
I also want to mention here that along with the above, I recently did work analyzing the etymology of the numeral (and letter) encodings in Bar Codes, Zip Code Bar Codes, ASCII, Binary, Morse Code, ITA2 and Van Duuren's, with maybe more to be added. I hope to put this work online for free. If it could be in some way encorporated into Wikipedia, that would be great, but finding published material about it might be difficult to do. Or it might be easy. Best wishes to whomever works on Wikipedia articles like this one. Whew.
Oh, and one more thing. I didn't look, but in ITA2 and Van Duuren's, there are Telegraph Commands which are abbreviated in my listing. I want to suggest that the Wikipedia article give the unabbreviated forms and explain sufficiently the frequency and operations of said commands. Many thanks.
Dwarfkingdom (talk) 00:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2014[edit]
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Change "Additionally, there are only 5 English words that can be spelled using just the letters in the top row: perpetuity, prerequire, proprietor, repertoire, and typewriter." to "Additionally, there are only 5 ten-letter English words that can be spelled using just the letters in the top row: perpetuity, prerequire, proprietor, repertoire, and typewriter." (add "ten-letter" since the statement is incorrect... there are many shorter words (e.g., owe, tripe, yet, quiet, quite, quieter...) Jeffmodell (talk) 20:14, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2014[edit]
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Please remove citation #4 because (1) the link is no longer valid and (2) the cited page is of dubious quality: it provides no references of its own and is not a first-hand source. The Wayback Machine last successfully crawled this page on 12 Nov 2013. Presently, the cited link returns a 403 Forbidden error and, in fact, the entire home.earthlink.net subdomain is no longer in operation. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
- Done The refs. were added (or re-added) by three September 2011 edits, so should any content be removed as well? The editor who added these even acknowledged that the source was a "blog post cite" (in their edit summary). I'm dubious of this: While it is often said that QWERTY was designed to "slow down" typists, this is incorrect – it was designed to prevent jams while typing at speed, yet some of the layout decisions, such as placing only one vowel on the home row, did have the effect of hobbling more modern keyboards. Well yes, I think it was intended to "slow down" typists—for the purpose of preventing jams, no? And any particular layout "hobbles" modern (electronic) keyboards?? Maybe it hobbles typists, but not the keyboards themselves! Wbm1058 (talk) 03:15, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2014[edit]
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Under Section 3. Computer Keyboards, the footer on the image on the right side says that the "\" is omitted on U.S. keyboards, which is false. Please fix. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:49, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
- Done Reverted edit from April 2013, thanks for noticing and reporting it. The backslash is in the top row in that picture. Wbm1058 (talk) 02:34, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
US International in the Netherlands.[edit]
Many computer-experienced Dutch people have retained the old habit of using Alt + number codes to type accented characters; others routinely type without diacritics, then use a spelling checker to produce the correct forms.
While true, afaik this mostly goes for people (sysadmins,programmers) using US-standard to avoid dead keys for quote and braces combinations often used in programming, not US-international. Since accent occurrence in Dutch is lower than e.g. German or French this quite doable for even non trivial amounts of text. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
This is JUNK Keyboard :([edit]
OUT qwerty!!!!!--188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Canadian Multilingual Standard?[edit]
I'm a Canadian with a French background and have been working with computers since the 80s. But I've never heard of or seen this apparently "standard" keyboard before until I read this article. If it truly does exist and is used at all by "some Canadians" as the article states (beyond some idealized concept promoted by Microsoft or someone trying to standardize something that never caught on), a reference is direly needed. Failing that, it should be removed as being irrelevant to Canadian keyboardists. The Quebec French keyboard also mentioned in the article exists, and I know of its use. But in my experience, even more common are keyboard layouts that use a "standard" english QWERTY layout translated by the keyboard map of the host OS - this doesn't split the shift or enter keys and instead remaps the keys differently. Though unfortunate that there is no good French standard keyboard in Canada, and I wish there was, in my experience, the so-called Canadian Multilingual Standard is not it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 10:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
A little limited, hey? My keyboard does not have a win key, not to speak about an ALTGR key (how do you pronounce ALTGR btw?). I guess this article could be made to a more cosmopolitan level by getting rid of Windowsisms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 12:04, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Alternative historical explanation[edit]
The May 2013 article here in The Atlantic, "The Lies You've Been Told About the Origin of the QWERTY Keyboard", by Alexis C. Madrigal, references a study by Japanese researchers, who make the case that the QWERTY keyboard layout evolved over time under the influence of telegraph translators. Perhaps this should be noted in this article. — Loadmaster (talk) 20:10, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Properties / teh[edit]
Alternating hands while typing is a desirable trait in a keyboard design. [...] (The common typo teh shows that alternating hands is a natural tendency.)
How so? Typing "the" uses alternating hands, while "teh" doesn't.
--CyBot (talk) 13:43, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Memories of Old Typewriter Keyboards[edit]
The sequence QWERTY just specifies the sequence of the capital and minuscule letters. That for numerals also stands without comment. But the sequence of characters that get printed or inputted when the numerals are keyed along with the shift key did have a change from typewriter to computer keyboard. Even though the computer sequence is that which the ASCII sequence specifies as the binary code for the corresponding numeral - with one bit changed - both sequences are completely arbitrary, especially VISUALLY. I think a note on this used to appear on this Wikipedia page, but does so no longer.
Maybe it used to be:--
! " # $ % _ & ' ( ) * + 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =
as opposed to:--
~ ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( ) _ + ` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =
But I think there were other differences. My own idea is that the topological features of the shifted numerals should have been comparable to those of the numerals that lie beneath them [say: & 3, # 4, $ 5, ( 6, ^ 7, % 8, ) 9, @ 0] - rather than having to be memorized by rote - which had to be changed for the transition from the old typewriter sequence to the new ASCII form. I still have to look at the keyboard. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:31, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
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text: James Paul (jamesinthesky) wrote in i_heart_sofia, 2012-02-01 09:30:00 James Paul jamesinthesky i_heart_sofia 2012-02-01 09:30:00 Previous Share Next Sofia in Vanity Fair March 2012 sorry about the quality (crappy cell-phone snap), but here's a photo of Sofia Coppola's feature in Vanity Fair's annual Hollywood issue where she talks about her favorite things. I don't have a scanner in my dorm to scan it, but someone will hopefully scan it soon and you can see an HQ version. In the meantime, here's a grainy one, but you should still be able to read the text. Post a new comment Error We will log you in after post We will log you in after post We will log you in after post We will log you in after post We will log you in after post Anonymously switch LiveJournal Facebook Twitter OpenId Google MailRu VKontakte Anonymously default userpic Insert Bold Insert Italic Insert Underline Insert Strikethrough Insert Link Insert LJ User Insert Photo Insert Media Your reply will be screened Post a new comment Preview comment Help 3 comments Post a new comment 3 comments sophie_ann wrote in i_heart_sofia: ←ROBERT MAPPLETHORPE | SOFIA COPPOLA | GALERIE THADDAEUS ROPAC | Paris | 2011 jaime_beaucoup wrote in i_heart_sofia: →Marni/H&M commercial


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EPA promulgated the Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Effluent Guidelines and Standards (40 CFR Part 439) in 1976 and amended the regulation in 1977, 1983, 1986 and 1998. The Effluent Guidelines are incorporated into NPDES permits for direct dischargersdirect dischargerA point source that discharges pollutants to waters of the United States, such as streams, lakes, or oceans., and permits or other control mechanisms for indirect dischargersindirect dischargerA facility that discharges pollutants to a publicly owned treatment works (municipal sewage treatment plant). (see Pretreatment Program).
Facilities Covered
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text:
- Report: #254911
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Reportage Georgio Armani (Alfonso Merolla)
Reportage Georgio Armani (Alfonso Merolla)Napoli Italy Irvine, California U.S.A.
Reportage Georgio Armani Alfonso Merolla Jacket Scam Ripoff Irvine California
*General Comment: Alfonso Merolla you scam I will find you
*Author of original report: CON ARTIST
*Author of original report: RGA Armani Alfonso Merolla
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He offered me 3 jackets as a gift and told me that once he got back to Italy he would wire me the money. It was sketchy, but I was dumb enough to trust him. I've always been a nice person when it comes to helping others and I figured I should help him out since out felt so bad for him. I did however ask him why he didn't contact his family, company, and the embassy. For the family he told me that time difference made it difficult for him to reach his family, which after i thought about it later shouldn't have mattered in the situation he was in. For the company he told me that he was new in the company and that if he contacted his boss then he would have been fired, and interms of embassy he said they couldn't help.
Oviously I got taken advantage of and got fooled. I've never been in this kind of situation, understanding him was very difficult, I never would have imagined this kind of thing happening in a town like Irvine, but it did and after this incident happened and I did some investigation on this site it seems it's happened in multiple Southern California locations: Long Beach, Lake Forrest, Costa Mesa, Redwood, Holly Wood. The rental car fee was $176, but I ended up giving this man $200, the money lost is lost, but I'm more upset and hurt by the fact that how someone could do this to another person. I know in this world there are alot of sketchy people, but this was by far the worst human interaction experience I've had. I'm a optimist so I'm not going to rent, but I do want others to be informed of this case so this does not happen to anybody else.
This scam artist will probably read this report and I hope he does and realize what kind of person he is. For others this individual physically is about 5'10 - 5'11 on a chubby side and his partner in was more leaner and wore glasses and remained silent the whole time because he soposedly didn't know any English at all. The scam artist name is Alfonso Merolla his fake passport indicated that he was born on Aprill 28th 1985 and the passport number was AA1309321. He will most likely approach his next potential victim differently so be on a look out for his feature. (chubby cheeks and pointy noise) He looked some what latino with dark tonned skin. If anyone of this character approaches you just call the police.
Irvine, California
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/16/2007 11:12 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Reportage-Georgio-Armani-Alfonso-Merolla/Irvine-California-92606/Reportage-Georgio-Armani-Alfonso-Merolla-Jacket-Scam-Ripoff-Irvine-California-254911. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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#1 General Comment
Alfonso Merolla you scam I will find you
AUTHOR: unknown1992 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 04, 2012POSTED: Sunday, November 04, 2012
approx. 10:00 am
Shell Petrol Station, Bass Hill, Hume Hwy
I had just filled up my car with petrol. After paying for it and walking to my
car, I was approached by a man in a rented beige Nissan X-trail that had a
Victorian number plate. He had asked me if I knew how to speak Italian. Which
coincidently I am from an Italian background and responded in Italian. He had
told me that he was from Rome, Italy and had travelled to Australia for
Business. He said he was down in Melbourne and had rented a car to travel to
Liverpool, Sydney where he had future goals to open up a boutique store selling
Italian clothing such as Giorgio Armani, Dolce & Gabana and Versace.
He then told me as a gift he would give me three jackets for free if I helped him. He said that the previous night he had met a girl from Liverpool Best & Less by the name of Jasmine and had slept
with her that night. He said when he woke up in the morning, all his money
(apparently so he had $3000 AUD) and credit cards were stolen and his main
concern was to return to Italy immediately. I had asked him if he contact his
parents and he said he has not due to the time difference (which made me think
afterwards if its an emergency, time wont make a difference) and he said he had
reported it to the police. I asked if he had called the Italian Embassy and he
said it was too much effort and they wouldnt help. He said he needed to drive
back to Melbourne to take back the car to the airport as he had changed his
flight to return Monday night.
showed me his itinerary and was recorded to depart Melbourne on the 9th
of December. I offered to call the rental car company to see if he could
possibly drop the car off here and he said they wont do that and it would be a
hassle as he has already rescheduled his flight from Melbourne. He believably
explained to me he had no money for petrol and no food and was asking for help,
as I was apparently a good Samaritan. I ended up buying his story due to the
innocent face he had including the two rosary beads that he had hanging around
his neck. He asked for $200 to get him to take the car back to Melbourne, which
will cover petrol and food. I offered to pay for his petrol and buy him
something at the petrol station but then he said he was already running on half
a tank and one tank wouldnt be enough from Sydney to Melbourne. He gave me his
business card and said he will transfer the money into my account once he
returned to Italy. I felt that maybe it was God giving me an opportunity to
complete a good deed so I went back into the petrol station to withdraw $200 from
the ATM and I took multiple photos of his passport and drivers license
(attached) and he wrote down my mobile number, name and account, BSB details to
transfer the money once he arrived.
Once we exchanged information he thanked me and
said when I return to Australia he will offer to take me out for drinks. He was
believed to be 27 years old and about 5 foot 10. Chubby built. His passport
indicated that his name was Alfonso Merolla.
If anyone sees this man driving in Sydney or Melbourne (Australia), please contact crime stoppers or Australian Federal Police
Are you an owner, employee or ex-employee with either negative or positive information about the company or individual, or can you provide "insider information" on this company?
#2 Author of original report
AUTHOR: Kenny - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, June 16, 2007POSTED: Saturday, June 16, 2007
Are you an owner, employee or ex-employee with either negative or positive information about the company or individual, or can you provide "insider information" on this company?
#3 Author of original report
RGA Armani Alfonso Merolla
AUTHOR: Kenny - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, June 16, 2007POSTED: Saturday, June 16, 2007
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Get Born
The Skirl Records launch party began with an announcement: Trombonist Curtis Hasselbring and his wife had had a baby two nights prior. So the applause was already congratulatory as Hasselbring, rumpled and beaming, brought his New Mellow Edwards onstage for the first of five mini-sets. Opening with a romper impishly called "The Infinite Infiniteness of Infinity," the band revealed its strengths forthwith: streamlined grooves, courtesy of drummer John Hollenbeck and bassist Trevor Dunn, and frontline tensions, by way of Hasselbring's trombone and Chris Speed's tenor saxophone. Speed was another proud father; Skirl is his baby, conceived and delivered in Brooklyn but baptized (circumcised?) on the Lower East Side. So after the Mellow Edwards set, which concluded with a sludgy "Double Negative," he stayed on to play with the Clarinets, an all-clarinet trio who were engrossing if a bit geeky. Speed, Oscar Noriega, and Anthony Burrstanding in order of ascending height, as in a Cingular adfashioned a dissonant coherence out of altissimo feedback (via Noriega's bass clarinet), didgeridoo drones (Burr's contrabass), and austere multiphonics (Speed's B-flat). The overtone interaction was unstable, unpredictable, and entrancing.
Only the last of those adjectives describes My Ears Are Bent, Ted Reichman's band with Hollenbeck and guitarist Mary Halvorson. Reichman, on piano rather than accordion, struck a melodic low-fi vibe that Halvorson intensified. Hollenbeck kept supple time even when doubling on melodica for the band's theme. That piece was as potent, in its self-effacing way, as the earlier distortions of TYFT, guitarist Hilmar Jensson's band with saxophonist Andrew D'Angelo and drummer Jim Black. Skirl hasn't released a TYFT record yet, but it will soon, along with Noriega's Trio de Oscar, which closed the celebration, and Human Feel, Speed's confab with D'Angelo, Black, and guitarist Kurt Rosenwinkel. Baby steps? Hardly.
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Ingham County prosecutors will ask a court to decide who has control over Ricky Holland's body.
The seven-year-old was murdered in 2005. His adoptive parents are serving time for his death.
Wednesday a special prosecutor will ask to have the Tim and Lisa Holland's rights terminated. That would allow the Ingham County Medical Examiner to make funeral decisions.
The remains of murder victims are usually handed over to the next of kin, but the court must make this decision because the parents have been convicted.


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- Report: #142531
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Complaint Review: National Small Business Alliance
National Small Business Alliancenatlsba.com Washington, District of Columbia U.S.A.
National Small Business Alliance Promised to make amends Washington District of Columbia
*Author of original report: NSBA did make good on its promises
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He may be just as much a victim of an unscrupulous telemarketer as I was - or he may be deceiving me as well. I will keep you posted on how he responds.
Boise, Idaho
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/12/2005 05:04 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/National-Small-Business-Alliance/Washington-District-of-Columbia/National-Small-Business-Alliance-Promised-to-make-amends-Washington-District-of-Columbia-142531. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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NSBA did make good on its promises
AUTHOR: Martin - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, May 16, 2005POSTED: Monday, May 16, 2005
Dennis has fulfulled what he promised me on Friday, May 13.
Unfortunately, I lost several hours of work. As a self-employed person, that's more than the cost of what I would have lost to the telemarketing scam. The National Small Business Alliance should be particularly concerned about troubling small businesses in this way. But I consider this a lesson learned and I will never, never, ever give my bank account information to someone who calls over the phone.
While Dennis said I did the right thing in calling him directly, he has forgotten to include the phone number to call him directly. According to the BBB, he can be reached at (760) 322-5572, (800) 506-6722 or (877) 478-8080. I believe I reached him at the first number.
If anyone else has a problem such as this, I urge them to call Dennis. Speaking just for my dealings with him, he was courteous, professional, apologetic and immediately did what he promised to do.
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- Report: #938375
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Complaint Review: Triple C Landscaping
Triple C Landscaping909 W Poinsett St. Greer, South Carolina 29650 Internet United States of America
Triple C Landscaping Zane Neugebauer Didn't provide services as paid for -- will not provide refund Internet
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After collecting the check, he has never visited my house in a time period less than 3 weeks, and at times, longer.
Now, my yard which was once beautiful and green is brown from the grass getting so long and then being cut.
I have heard so many excuses for why he was unable to come, lawn mowers being broken, rain (when there was none), getting behind schedule with other lawns, poor help and "personal emergencies".
For a weekly service, no excuse explains or justifies 3-4 week gaps in cuts. And of the few times he actually did cut my lawn, there were always an abundance of very large gaps in my lawn, and my mulch beds were buried in grass clippings.
Several weeks ago I fired him and demanded a refund for the remaining amount - for cuts which I prepaid for, only to be told that I must wait for his accountant to return, which would be in a couple of weeks. That time has since come and gone, and despite multiple messages and phone calls, I have heard no response.
It seems clear that he has no intention of providing a refund for services not yet rendered.
It is no surprise that the BBB has given him an F rating.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/08/2012 10:13 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Triple-C-Landscaping/internet/Triple-C-Landscaping-Zane-Neugebauer-Didnt-provide-services-as-paid-for-will-not-provi-938375. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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Love & Marriage Returns: Musical Revue Celebrates Love's Many Faces
* Additional fees apply. No coupon or promo codes necessary to enjoy the displayed discount price.
The last date listed for Love & Marriage: What a Difference a Year Makes was Sunday October 20, 2013 / 7:00pm.
Most Popular Under $10 Event Nearby
Joke Joint Comedy Club: Laugh It Up With National and Local Stand-Ups
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Laughter and charm are in full effect at the Joke Joint, where chandeliers and an ornate balcony… More
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Reviews & Ratings
Featured review from Vicki SchmelingRed Velvet
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Really enjoyed the professionals who were part of this show (AE Union members). There was at least one cast member who was not only a bad singer, but she nearly ruined the show.The good performances did outweigh the poor ones.
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Loved it! I would see it again. The music was Awesome.
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Beautiful singing voices and quite talented. Very much enjoyed seeing the couples in the video. It was also interesting to see some of these couples in the audience! Loved the songs!
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Heartwarming and fun production! I especially enjoyed the second act, which explores the complexities of love a little deeper. The music and video vignettes are enjoyable. And, most of all, Dennis Spears is great, as are many of the cast members.
Quotes & Highlights
Read Goldstar member reviews from the 2012 show.


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Would like to move over to SlimStat from the unsupported WordPress.com Stats package by automattic. Is there any way to preserve my wp-stat data? If there's any way, I'd rather not lose it, as I've been tracking with WordPress.com Stats for a couple of years now.
WordPress.com Stats were good, but I do NOT want to bloat out my WordPress installations with JetPack, and don't like the pressure to switch, the risk, as well as the loss of control.
Please advise.
[ Signature moderated. ]
Sorry, I got the name confused with a different plugin. Putting this in a fresh thread...
Please advise.


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Thread: D&D Next Blog: Tone and Edition
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Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:30 PM #1
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
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D&D Next Blog: Tone and Edition
Have to admit I like the idea of tagging the races with common, uncommon, rare as it applies to what a DM allows in his or her campaign:
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Last edited by Elodan; Friday, 27th April, 2012 at 08:31 PM. Reason: spellingCertainty of death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for!
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:38 PM #2
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That idea was pretty much what I've been saying about the "class (and race) rarity" system since the idea was first floated over our heads -- it's an excellent shorthand for world-building (or perhaps world-defining).Your signature contains too many lines and must be shortened.
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:41 PM #3
Guide (Lvl 11)
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Put rules / guidelines for creating races / classes into the DMG. That way you can A) put a "core" set in without muddying the waters and still allow people to create their own stuff to bring their old campaign or settings along with them and B) give incentives for the more creative players to pick up a traditionally "DM only" book. The DM can still have approval over what goes into their campaign and modify the player's creation, but they'll know if the guidelines were followed, then the race / class should be playable.
D&D has always been about home-brewing stuff. If someone really wanted Tiefling in their game, they can always make it. Giving guidelines makes it explicit that you're expected to homebrew stuff.
As for the rarity system, I like it. You can even define setting stuff using it. "Dragonborn are considered Common in this region of the world."
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:46 PM #4
Lama (Lvl 13)
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Dragonborn and Tieflings in the core PHB is good news. I forsee a lot of player vs DM trying to talk the DM into allowing things.
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 09:42 PM #5
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
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As a way to address the divide between lovers and haters of dragonborn, this seems a pretty good solution.
<mild tangential rant>It does touch on a longstanding gripe of mine, however, which is D&D's eternal assumption that Everything Has Elves And Dwarves, and Almost Everything Has Halflings. I mean, if you look at the broader range of fantasy fiction and classify the protagonists, what you come up with is something like this:
Common Races: Humans.
Uncommon Races: Part-humans, cursed humans, transformed humans, superior humans.
Rare Races: Everything else.
Slim, pretty, bow-shooting elves and stout, gruff, axe-swinging dwarves are cribbed directly from Tolkien and show up almost nowhere else, except in the works of people who are imitating either Tolkien or D&D or both *cough*Eragon*cough*. Protagonists in other works are overwhelmingly human. Those that aren't human are usually human-plus, being either a hybrid of human and something else (half-faerie, half-demon, half-god), or a human subjected to some kind of transformation or enchantment (vampire, werewolf), or a Human Who Is Better Than You Boring Regular Humans (anyone with hereditary special powers).
Protagonists who were never human at all are quite unusual and tend to be one-offs. In all of fantasy, there is to my knowledge only one Melnibonean protagonist. I think you'd find more talking animal protagonists than elves or dwarves.
I don't know that there is much to be done about this. For better or worse, we seem to be stuck with elves and dwarves as part of the baseline in D&D, for the same reason we're stuck with Vancian wizards and +1 swords: They've been part of the game forever. But it would be nice to get at least a nod to the idea that a campaign without them is not a crazy radical thing.</mild tangential rant>
Last edited by Dausuul; Saturday, 28th April, 2012 at 03:49 AM.Originally Posted by Agent Elrond
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:51 PM #6
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I think, instead, names that reflect the style of fantasy those races are associated with:
Classic (Human, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings)
Traditional (Half-elves, Half-orcs, Gnomes, High Elves, Drow)
Modern (Dragonborn, Tieflings, Deva, Warforged, Wilden, etc.)
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 08:54 PM #7
Lama (Lvl 13)
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A more useful division of races would be:
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 09:02 PM #8
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Sure, I can live with that. I initially wanted those rare races to appear in supplements, but I'm sort of leaning to a core where everyone gets the races they want.
It's easier to just say 'no dragonborn' for the group that doesn't want them than for the group that does want them to have to stat them up themselves.
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 09:25 PM #9
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Not a fan. I don't need lizards with chesticles or poor misunderstood emo-tieflings.
I hope they reconsider and modulize them.
Friday, 27th April, 2012, 09:37 PM #10
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Think back to when you were a child. What did you dream of becoming...
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Life-Changing Moments with God: Praying Scripture Every Day
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- Report: #233830
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Complaint Review: Academy Of Art University - Academy Of Art College - Grant And Weber isa Stephens
Academy Of Art University - Academy Of Art College - Grant And Weber isa Stephens79 New Montgomery Street San Francisco, California U.S.A.
Academy Of Art University - Academy Of Art College - Academy Of Art - Grant And Weber - Elisa Stephens "At the Academy of Art in San Francisco Ripoff Students Credit Cards according to it's own student newspaper Private college promises to forgive debt for classes that were locked to the student, 2 years later attorneys threaten to destroy student and disabled veteran spouse, executive management chose to forgive debt, now they've changed their mind San Francisco California
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Classes were disorganized, education was not primary focus, sales were primary focus. Education was lacking if anything. I learned more at one hour of class in a state college than one semester at this school.
They have an attorney, Grant and Weber, who uses abusive tactics to include threatening liens on your home, repossesion of car, anything and everything to get you to pay, even if you don't have the money.
Kevin "director of billing" would not give me phone number or name of executive level management that I spoke with in the past, nor anyone else.
Left message with receptionist for President and Owner Elisa Stephens with no response. Elisa does not have voicemail. Only little sticky notes that get crumbled up and thrown away.
Starving Artist
San Francisco, California
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/31/2007 06:48 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Academy-Of-Art-University-Academy-Of-Art-College-Grant-And-Weber-isa-Stephens/San-Francisco-California-94105-3410/Academy-Of-Art-University-Academy-Of-Art-College-Academy-Of-Art-Grant-And-Weber-El-233830. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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Adilynn Jo Ronning - April 21, 2010
To Kenneth and Tiffany Ronning of Gothenburg, on Sunday, April 4, 2010, at Great Plains Regional Medical Center at North Platte, a daughter, Adilynn Jo, weighing seven pounds, 12ounces.
Paternal grandparent is Justine Heidebrink of Kearney. Great-grandparents include Delores Lindemon of Cozad, and the late Kenneth Parsons.
Maternal grandparents are Tim and Theresa Holley and David and Jan Ellison, all of Gothenburg. Great-grandparents include Ken and Donna Kenning and Margaret Ellison, all of Gothenburg.
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44 of Our Favorite Potato Recipes Ever
Mashed, roasted, fried, or stewed, we'll happily eat potatoes every night of the week.
You Should Really Be Pickling Your French Fries and We're Not Kidding
We know, it sounds crazy. But you should really be pickling your french fries. Let us explain…
6 Easy Hacks for the Best Homemade Fries
Homemade fries are worth the effort. Make 'em even better with these DIY fry hacks.


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15 September 2012
Frinton-on-Sea's only pub has re-opened its doors following a refurbishment that marked the building's 100th year anniversary.
Licensees Carol and Pete Cooper of the Lock & Barrel, Frinton-on-Sea toasted the opening, plus the launch of their new charity partnership last night (Wednesday 12 September).
Read more
08 September 2012
Richard Frost, Shepherd Neame's new head brewer, celebrates his first Kentish hop harvest this month, having witnessed at first hand how the county's farmers and growers have overcome challenging weather conditions to bring in the crop. Richard, who joined Britain's oldest brewer in January, after spending 33 years brewing in the Midlands, has relished the opportunity to be up close and hands-on w
07 September 2012
Quick action and a concerted team effort has kept the Hatch pub in Redhill, Surrey, open for business despite a lorry collision that caused £30,000 damage to the popular community pub.
The Hatch was back serving regulars within a few hours, and will be going ahead with a high profile charity event to mark Battle of Britain Day on September 15.
03 September 2012
Shepherd Neame is offering licensees expert support to build successful food businesses with the appointment of award-winning licensee Carol Haime as development chef for tenancies. With food now essential to the success of almost every pub, Carol will work with licensees looking to add a successful menu to their established drinks trade, as well as those who want to develop their existing food op
22 August 2012
The Wings & Wheels launch got off to a flying start as two Hawks swooped in to help the team with their Guinness World Record attempt.
Having looked long and hard at the thousands of recent records, discarded the longest distance to squirt milk from your eye and the most forward rolls in one minute, the team at Wings & Wheels created the longest ever line of toy cars.
Contact us by email
Contact us by phone
Shepherd Neame LimitedThe Faversham Brewery17 Court StreetFavershamKent. ME13 7AXUnited Kingdom
Shepherd Neame is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority for consumer credit regulated activities.


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When I right click the image link is there and can right click to open link but the physical image is not shown. Where would this be stored in the WordPress file structure for setting permissions or is this a bug with API updating?
Edit solved seems to be a caching error.