text:
The Toshiba Standoff
Many others have fought this battle in the past, but my education into the specifics of Microsoft's monopoly began a little over a month ago when I became interested in a Toshiba Portege 2000. While customizing the laptop with a sales representative at 1-800-TOSHIBA, I inquired as to whether I could purchase the device with no operating system installed. This question seemed to confuse the salesperson, who needed to pass the question on to a supervisor. Eventually, I was told that I could not purchase the hardware without a copy of Microsoft's OS pre-installed and this stipulation was not open to negotiation. At this point, I realized that on some level my rights as a consumer were being violated. I knew I needed to take a step back and educate myself before continuing this conversation. Here is what I found out:
(Taken from the Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional End User License Agreement)
After spending a few days researching other people's similar situations when dealing with these OEMs, it became clear to me that I was not going to be allowed to order a piece of hardware without a bundled OS. I would have to exercise my rights as defined in the EULA if I wanted justice. I called 1-800-TOSHIBA again to place my order for my new Portege 2000. Because I wanted to exercise my rights as defined by the Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional EULA, I confirmed with my sales representative that this OS was to be pre-installed on the system before I committed myself to the sale. Additionally, in an effort to be proactive, I informed a supervisor in the office that I would be pursuing this refund.
The laptop arrived sometime during the first week of August. After taking special care to leave the bundled software media (and associated documentation) in it's original packaging, I plugged in the laptop, connected the USB floppy drive, inserted a floppy disk and performed a network install of Red Hat Linux 7.3.
The following is a history (cleaned up a bit for readability) of the e-mail thread I have since engaged in with John Smithson of Toshiba America Information Systems, Inc. (TAIS):
Subject: re: License To: email@example.com From: firstname.lastname@example.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:15:59 -0700 Adam , please send me your complaint. Thank you, John Smithson 800-272-0569x4034 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:55:00 -0400 From: "Adam Kosmin" <firstname.lastname@example.com> To: Adam Kosmin <email@example.com> , email@example.com CC: email@example.com Subject: Re: License (Correct Version) John, I sent the wrong license. Here's the correct attachment and snippet from Windows 2000 Professional. *********************************************************************** YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND. *********************************************************************** Please note, that upon receiving the laptop, I inserted a Linux boot disk and formatted the contents of the hard drive. This means that I never accepted the terms of any End User License Agreement (EULA) that would have been presented. I did not install, copy, download, access, or use the software and therefore, am requesting a full refund as well as instructions (if any) on how to return the unused product. Also, please note that when I say "product", I am not speaking of the laptop but rather the software as defined in the EULA. Thanks, Adam Kosmin Content-Disposition: inline; filename="EULA.TXT" Subject: re: License To: firstname.lastname@example.com From: firstname.lastname@example.com Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:22:06 -0700 Adam Kosmin, I have received the following regarding your complaint. Please consider this as an answer to your question. "The Master EULA (C1192-4) is a standard item on all BOMs, shipping with all units. It is part of the documentation set inside the pizza box, which means it is shrink-wrapped along with the Resource Guide, Warranty booklet, etc. However, now that we moved away from the pizza box to a "pouch", it is may or may not be in a separately shrink wrapped package inside the pouch. It is a single half sheet of paper, printed on one side. The language referred to is in capital letters in the 1st paragraph from the Master EULA copied below for your convenience. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the separate terms provided by the Software supplier, TAIS does not accept the return of component parts, or bundled Software, which have been removed from the TAIS hardware product. Pro-rata refunds on individual PC components, or bundled Software, including the operating system, will not be granted." Thank you for your inquiry, Sincerely, John Smithson Case Manager Customer Relations 800-272-0569 x 4034 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:33:36 -0400 From: "Adam Kosmin" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.com Subject: Re: License X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.1claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-redhat-linux) John, This is totally unacceptable. If I do not receive instructions on how to collect the reimbursement for my unused software by the end of the week, I will start filing my complaints with the Federal Trade Commission. Please note that my complaints will target Toshiba since the license clearly defines the manufacturer as being the party who is responsible to provide this refund. It is clear to me that you have not actually read the EULA and you have just forwarded me a generic response from your Microsoft contact. Again, I must remind you that your company is violating the terms of this license. I will not accept this reply. Adam Kosmin Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:53:21 -0400 From: "Adam Kosmin" <firstname.lastname@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.com Subject: Re: License John, In your last email, you pointed out the Master End User License Agreement. I have found the copy of the agreement in my "pizza box" and offer the following observations... *** taken from the MEULA ******* IMPORTANT: Use of any software or any related documentation (collectively, "software") preinstalled on, or shipped with a TAIS hardware product or otherwise made available to you by TAIS in whatever form or media, will constitute your acceptance of these terms. ******************************** Well, looks like I was able to avoid that trap since (as explained earlier) I haven't used any software or any related documentation. My legal foothold just keeps getting stronger and stronger with every rebuttal that Toshiba offers. The bottom line here is simply that Toshiba cannot bind me to terms that I did not agree to. As stated earlier, I am giving Toshiba until the end of the week to provide me with instructions on how to collect the refund I am entitled to. If I do not receive an appropriate response by that time, I will file my complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and take this to a lawyer. Best, Adam Kosmin Subject: Toshiba License Agreement To: email@example.com From: firstname.lastname@example.com Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:59:33 -0700 Dear Adam, I have relayed your message to the Legal Dept. They have replied below. The user has two chances to return the system. [The user accepts the license when] 1. The user first sees a shrink wrap label on the computer baggie, reads about Toshiba's policy regarding no pro-rata returns, ignores the written policy, and tears off the shrink wrap label. On the plastic baggie that contains the notebook there is a shrink wrap label that reads substantially as follows: Toshiba America Information Systems, Inc. (TAIS) currently sells personal computers with a Microsoft Windows operating system pre-installed, based on general customer demand. In order to maintain the highest quality standards under the Toshiba brand name, TAIS is committed to delivering computing solutions to the customer as a total PC system. TAIS does not accept the return of component parts, or bundled software, which have been removed from the PC system. Pro-rata refunds on individual PC components or bundled software, including the operating system, will not be granted. If you wish to return a complete PC system, contact the TAIS dealer where you purchased the product, and comply with the dealer's standard return policies and procedures. Sincerely, John Smithson Case Manager Customer Relations 800-272-0569x4034
This was the final e-mail exchange between John Smithson and myself. On Tuesday, September 3, 2002, I called him and explained that I was not satisfied with the position Toshiba had taken. He replied, "see you in court".
Along with filing my complaint with the Federal Trade Commission that same day, I am charging Toshiba Corporation with making a conscious decision to deny me the refund I am entitled to for my unopened and unused copy of Windows 2000 Professional. Additionally, I am charging Toshiba with trying to strong arm me into accepting unwanted product through the use of additional licenses that make broad assumptions about my acceptance when, in fact, I never consciously made any effort to forfeit my rights regarding this refund. Although I am not a lawyer, my instincts tell me that Toshiba's "little sticky label" and MEULA violates article 2 of the UCC, which states:
2-204. Formation in General (1) A contract for sale of goods may be made in any manner sufficient to show agreement, including conduct by both parties which recognizes the existence of such a contract.
My take on this is that both parties need to know they are entering into a contract for it to be worth anything at the end of the day. Toshiba's MEULA does not disclose to the user the opportunity to enter into any such agreement. Rather, it wrongfully interprets a totally unrelated (but yet predictable) action made by the user as acceptance of an offer that may never have been reviewed.
In closing, I have a few questions for the community:
1. Has anyone actually gotten refund program this work? I would appreciate hearing about your experiences, and I promise to post them (with your permission) so that others can benefit and gain additional insight.
2. Are there any law students who would like to explore this situation for a research project or school assignment and publish their results? I can only imagine how cheap law school would seem if enough momentum was created and a class action lawsuit was won that once and for all rid the world of this violation against consumer rights.
John Smithson is a heartless snake.....
Currently the Hollywood Film Company of which I am C.E.O. has had Mr. Smithson hold one of our company notebooks without cause. It is under warranty till 2011 yet it has been over a month and still no laptop in our hands. Our investors are ready to go to war over this. We thought that Toshiba would be a good brand to go with however because they failed to fix it 4 times and didn't even plug in the LCD screen properly (a no brainer) all pixels that are to be black are now red. From now on I would suggest Fujitsu. A very stable unit. Even their older units were very good. As far as the situation now. They claim that the warranty that was purchased is now invalid and that a refund will be made for it. They didn't expect a Hollywood film production company to be on the other end of the call. Mr. Smithson acts like a saint but has no heart thus he has been promoted from the position that is stated above and is now head of the department at Toshiba America Information Systems corporate Headquarters as the person who handles hazardous notebooks / laptops. They also didn't expect that I was able to speak Japanese and will be calling Japan's corporate headquarters. I am sure that when I finish talking to the C.E.O. in Japan Mark Simons will fire Mr. Smithson due to his gross negligence in relation to this matter. I am also certain that others that did not work with me on the phone will be fired as well. It is ignorant of Mr. Smithson with his fake halo to underestimate who he is talking to. Very apologetic but all fake apologies. We will be sure to insure The Japanese corporate headquarters leaves Mr. Smithson where he belongs "In a garbage heap". Because our company bought one of the high end laptop / notebooks we will not be in small claims court. We have all the investors lawyers to back us. We will win this war.
Get a life!
Honestly man, do you really have nothing else better to do than to piss and moan about warranty or other agreements you agreed to when buying that laptop? Toshiba, or any company for that matter, isn't responsible for you mucking up your computer with third-party crap! There may be some legitimacy in the fact that you didn't use the OS as stated in the EULA, but that doesn't mean that you somehow negated your warranty or some other agreement by trying to put something on your notebook that wasn't there originally and especially something as big as a completely different OS! Why don't you just give it a rest and realize that you are a gnat trying to damage a freight train at ramming speed, and for no good reason to begin with. You apparently don't realize that big companies like Toshiba, most especially Microsoft, have a room full of lawyers just waiting for a moron like you to show up with a legal challenge that they can squash into the ground. Why do you think lawyers, the blood-sucking parasites that they are, drive cars that cost more than your pathetic life? Give it up, no one cares.
4 years too late, but I think I have a solution...
I know this topic has been and gone, but a solution occurred to me and it goes like this (I've only read the first page of comments, so forgive me if someone has already thought of this):
1. It seems pretty clear to me that Toshiba's offer to offer a refund for the whole laptop is enough to satisfy Microsoft's promise of a refund on the Software.
2. But, if Toshiba refuse to do pro-rata returns and the EULA promises you a refund on the software if you don't use it, then couldn't you just use the laptop for a few years until it is well and truly depreciated, and then present the unused software to Toshiba, demanding a full refund for the whole software/hardware package? It would then be up to Toshiba to try to force a pro-rata refund on you when they had explicitly "promised" not to do pro-rata refunds.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Toshiba the most anti-consumer company in the world. I was suckered into buying a pocket PC that they decided not to support, despite thousands of petitions by angry PDA owners. I vowed then and there that I, nor anyone in my company would ever buy a Toshiba product of any kind again.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
My questions (and these are questions not necessarily for or against this lawsuit, which may be reiterations of previous posts) are:
Can an OEM "sell" you a copy of Windows? Whether it be Windows 3.1, WindowsXP, or what have you, can they "sell" you licensed software? From my (maybe limited) understanding of an OEM contract the company, in this case Toshiba, acts as an agent to provide you with a licensed copy of whatever software and as a condition of your buying the laptop have agreed (insists) to pre-installation of that software. As such, shouldn
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
This is a reply to my own post. After posting my opinion, I realized I had never really read the EULA that came with the computer I was using to type the post. So I went back and read the section on refunds and would like to post my opinions on them. I would like to state that I am not now or have ever been an employee of Toshiba or any other PC OEM or otherwise employed by the Software industry. IANAL and the opinions refelected here are my own, if you disagree, please don't flame me.
Excert found from the EULA.txt file on a Dell OEM Windows 2k + Service Pack 1 disk:
IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between
you (either an individual or a single entity) and the
manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the
Microsoft software product(s) identified above ("SOFTWARE
PRODUCT" or "SOFTWARE").
My understanding from this is that the EULA is actually an agreement between the Purchaser and the Reseller/Distributor of the software, not Microsoft. That would put EULA responsiblities in the hands of the OEM.
If the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT is not accompanied by new HARDWARE, you may not use
or copy the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. The SOFTWARE
PRODUCT includes computer software, the associated media, any
printed materials, and any "online" or electronic documentation.
This EULA is valid and grants the end-user license rights ONLY if
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is genuine and a genuine Certificate of
Authenticity for the PRODUCT SOFTWARE is provided with the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT. Any software provided along with the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT that is associated with a separate end-user
license agreement is licensed to you under the terms of that
license agreement. You agree to be bound by the terms of this
EULA by installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise
using the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. If you do not agree, Manufacturer
and Microsoft Licensing, Inc. ("MS") are unwilling to license the
SOFTWARE PRODUCT to you. In such event, you may not use or copy
the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, and you should promptly contact
Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s)
in accordance with Manufacturer's return policies.
And here is the rub. The "tag" on the "baggie" that stated Toshiba's stance on the returns/refunds of Pro-rata software is a statement of the Manufacturer's return policy. As such it appears that policy is upheld in the EULA.
From my statements above, I am of the opinion that Toshiba is NOT breaching contract, as company policy states that bundled OEM copies of can only be refunded by returning the entire system (usually this is because the price of the software is bundled into one invoiced payment for the hardware.)
The question is not whether Toshiba is required by the EULA to give you a refund of only only the price of the OEM operating system, because they are not. The EULA only binds them to their internal refund policy. The question is, should OEM's be legally allowed to bundle a licensed Operating System, which is an intergral part of the Total Computing System that you purchased, without allowing a means of recourse. In essence, should OEM's be allowed to distribute a non-free (free as in freedom) OS without an equally satisfing alternative? I myself (from a legal stand point) have no idea... does anyone out there?
Please show your support by visting the new website. The forums are up and running now so I'm looking forward to hearing your comments and viewpoints.
Adam Kosmin
Toshiba *does* ship a Linux laptop?
says "The new DynaBook SS S4/275 will go on sale in Japan on May 13.
In addition to Hancom Office 2.0J, it includes both the Windows XP
operating system and Caldera OpenLinux Workstation version 3.1.1.
More information about this product is at
Toshiba's Libretto L3 and DynaBook SS M3 notebook computers also come with Linux preinstalled. "
Could this be true? I haven't checked yet...
Time to relocate
windowsrefund.net is waiting for you.
Adam Kosmin
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
I can understand your frustration. I can offer an alternative for you. I am a consultant in the Pacific Northwest and have been a reseller for Equus Computer Systems for several years. They are a fairly large manufacturer of desktop, laptop and server systems and will happily provide systems with or without OS. They are wholesale only so you would need to find a reseller near you. Their systems come with 1, 2, or 3 year warranty and are well put together. Check them out at: www.equuscs.com
David Rapp
It refuses to call back defective floppy drivers in China market while it does in other markets.
"keep talkin..."
- Carl McCoy
Fields of The Nephilim
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
could you not send them a letter through the mail with your own contract that becomes valid upon their opening..or an email that becomes valid upon their viewing of the data?
on the back of a standard envelope would be just fine.
play their game and see what happens
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Exactly. You will make contract with Toshiba xor MS. Not both, because their terms are contradict. You should either get back the MS Windows Tax or you can freely distribute the MS Windows, with is really a "bad thing to the world" (tm).
Toshiba says: You cannot refund all the softwares.
MS says: You can refund the software.
Simon says: Oops.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
This isn't true - the contracts don't contradict. Toshiba's contract is simply more strict than Microsoft's.
Microsoft says: You can refund the software.
Toshiba says: You can refund the entire product (which includes the software).
By offering to refund the entire product, Toshiba are implicitly offering to refund the software, thereby honouring both the Microsoft EULA and their own EULA.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Take them to small claims court. The ammount you want refunded cant be more than the $500 limit can it? Anyways they cant bring lawyers to small claims court and as a result most likely will just give in and pay you what you want.
recovering Items and /or monies for items taken
Items ,2002 Fantom Vacume cleaner,value 120.00,car stero value 100.00
in automobile taken from place of employment of son in law.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
I dont believe the answer to this problem is in small claims court. We need a state or federal judge to rule on this, as I don't believe Adam is that worried over a $200 software package, as he is worried that his rights are being violated, even the rights that Microsoft has "given" him in their own EULA. More people should be like him, he has even inspired me to order a system from Toshiba, just to do the exact same thing(Although my distro of choice is Mandrake :) ). I know, maybe I shouldnt give my money to a company that would do this to its customers. But someone has to make a stand, and I'm standing behind Adam!
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
I think we are missing the most basic elements here:
Microsoft have a EULA that you must either accept or decline.
If you accept it you are bound by the terms. If you do not then you cannot use the product in any way and, according to it, can return for a refund.
It's pretty obvious one must have the opportunity to READ it before being able to accept it.
It is interesting that, whilst one cannot purchase the hardware without the software, one is given the opportunity to return the software after the purchase in any event (according to the EULA).
It would seem that Toshiba have slapped an extra notice on the packaging (talking about not accepting part-returns, etc) to try and stop any such returns as a means to circumvent a "loophole" (I'm sure that's what they'll call it) in their contract with MS.
Remember, keep it simple - you were "asked" BY MICROSOFT "do you accept?". You said no and then followed the resulting directions.
Help needed
Please contact me if you are a web designer and would like to help. I can do the hosting.
Adam Kosmin
Another angle for Adam:
Hi Adam,
Anonymous 13 yr old posters don't understand 'freedom' except in the sense that THEY don't pay for electricity. ;-) now calm down trolls:
Contracts exist to protect the rights of both parties, and are usually derived through negotiation. Would you buy $10,000 software that came with a five page license that said "we don't promise that the software is suitable for any task"?
This is one reason why shrink-wrapped EULAs haven't yet been upheld in court. AFAIK you can't give someone an envelope that says "by opening this opaque box, you agree to all terms and conditions that we put inside, even though you can't review them first."
The Daimer-Chrysler analogy fails since cars don't come with a door-seal EULA (sic) "When you open this door you agree not to sue us; We don't warrant that this the car is suitable for driving, riding, emergency travel, or life support systems...
Adam received a 2nd EULA in the glove box that says if you don't like the seats, return them to the dealer for a refund.
This simply boils down to, Does the Microsoft EULA (contract) supercede the Toshiba one?
You "agreed" to the following contracts:
1. "Store" will sell me a Toshiba laptop but can't/won't ship it without Windows.
2. Opening package = signing a contract (!?) with Toshiba, the rights of which may vary state to state.
3. Microsoft proposes an agreement that you will not pirate, reverse-engineer, resell, etc your copy of Windows 2000. Microsoft further says that if you don't want to abide by their terms you will get a refund from the authorized seller.
Common sense (not law!) says the Microsoft EULA takes precedence, unless the Toshiba license speficically says "We won't be bound by, nor honor, any other EULA in our package."
OEMs can't get volume pricing without agreeing to Microsoft terms. Returning an unopened copy of Windows clearly entitles you to a refund ($20? but the amount is not important!)
Determining your recourse is simple. Correlate
-The Toshiba EULA you may have (legally) agreed to i.e. Did you surrender any rights?
-Your state law Some states don't allow you to surrender certain rights
-the Microsoft EULA you did NOT agree to invalidating any warranty claim but expressly permitting a refund from the OEM
-the Microsoft-Toshiba OEM supplier contract to see if Toshiba is allowed (within the constraints of the Toshiba-Microsoft agreement) to refuse your refund.
Re: Another angle for Adam:
I've been following this thread for a couple of days. I also followed a similar case for a while when it surfaced a few years ago.
I think this post is one of the best summarised in this entire thread, which is why I chose to reply to this one out of all of them.
Until a couple of days ago, I used to be of the opinion expressed by Adam. However, after reading all of the posts on this thread, I have been convinced otherwise.
I agree that Toshiba's obligation to refund the product depends on their OEM contract with Microsoft. Ie, Microsoft can't (through their EULA) force Toshiba to refund the software unless Toshiba agreed to this as part of their OEM deal with Microsoft. I believe it is highly likely that Toshiba did make such an agreement with Microsoft, and are therefore obligated to refund the software.
However, I think the point that Mike and Adam are overlooking is this: By offering to refund the entire purchase, Toshiba are implicitly offering to refund the software as well! Nowhere in Microsoft's EULA does it state that the vendor must refund only the software - so long as the software is in fact refunded, then the MEULA is fulfilled. So by offering to refund the entire product (and therefore refunding the software), Toshiba are in fact offering to fulfill their contractual obligation, as stated in Microsoft's EULA. They are not (as suggested by mike, the poster to whom I am replying) actually refusing the refund.
The fact that Toshiba's own EULA (which I gather said that they would not refund part of the product without refunding the entire thing) actually strengthens their position.
I acknowledge that a couple of people have pointed this out already, but I think they were simply flamed and accused as being Toshiba employees because their presented their point in an antagonistic way. Hopefully, by presenting this point in a calm and logical way (as I have attempted to do), people might see past that prejudice.
Given that Toshiba are not in violation of their contract, it would seem that your only recourse is to see if there is any provision in your state or federal law that explicitly prohibits Toshiba from forcing you to buy a piece of software bundled with the hardware. If there is no such law, then you are out of luck and you should either keep the laptop (and software) or return it. Otherwise, you are trying to take away Toshiba's right to sell whatever the hell they want bundled however they want to do it.
Re: Another angle for Adam:
Simple question: since Toshiba chose to include a copy of Windows as a part of their package, wouldn't that automatically obligate them to honor the terms (responsibities) of the EULA that applies to the product that they chose to sell?
Seems to me that Toshiba bound themselves by including Windows in the first place.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
You made 2 mistakes here:
1) You bought the laptop knowing full well Windows was installed on it.
2) You broke the seal which said if you break it you agree to all, including software licenses.
They win, you lose. Simple. If you get your money back I'll be really,really suprised. People can be so stupid sometimes....
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Hey Adam,
You admit that before you made the purchase that you talked to them and "Eventually, I was told that I could not purchase the hardware without a copy of Microsoft's OS pre-installed and this stipulation was not open to negotiation."
Then you made the mistake of reading the EULA from an unrelated (to this transaction) MS software product, and then assumed you could return the software product from this transaction under the terms of that unrelated one.
When they sent you the item THAT YOU ORDERED, before you opened the package (not the MS package, the shrink wrapped notebook itself) they gave you another oportunity to understand: "TAIS does not accept the return of component parts, or bundled software, which have been removed from the PC system. Pro-rata refunds on individual PC components or bundled software, including the operating system, will not be granted."
You chose to ignore them again and pretend that they've somehow duped you into an agreement without your full knowledge.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
No is position is that an agreement was forced upon him by Toshiba that he did not be aware of at the date of purchase. Also he could not be certain that the specific MS EULA he would get with his product would be the same as he had read from another source.
He was actually duped into two agreements without his prior knowledge. First the Toshiba MEULA, and second the MS EULA. While he would have a fair chance defending that both agreements have void parts, he is nonetheless always allowed to accept those agreements and ask the other party to uphold them (The MS EULA is a two way agreement, where you either agree upon the terms, or not agree and are entitled to a refund. He uses the second option from the MS EULA and wants to hold the other party to that part of the agreement.)
Re: We are going to court
Email me at akosminATnyp.org if you feel you are entitled to a refund.
Adam Kosmin
Re: Name both Toshiba & Microsoft as co-accused
You should charge both Toshiba & Microsoft. If Microsoft say Toshiba must provide a refund, then Toshiba are screwed. If Toshiba say they do not accept the return of bundled software, then the EULA is screwed. Either way you win.
Re: Name both Toshiba & Microsoft as co-accused
Either way you win?
Unfortunately the real world is not as simple as planet Archerfish. Your two choices left out the third - the actual case in point. Toshiba is perfectly willing to honor Microsoft's EULA, but they want the rest of their product back too, and they made that clear before the product was opened.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Dear Daimler-Chrysler:
I wanted to purchase your Chrysler model XYZ, but I didn't want the bundled Mitsubishi engine. Your sales people told me I could NOT by the XYZ without the Mitsubishi engine. I bought it anyway, loaded it on a truck and brought it home (without starting the Mitsubishi engine). I've removed the engine and replaced it and would like you to take the enginge back and refund me the full retail value of the Mitsubishi engine.
I added the "full retail" at the end. I don't know how much refund you expected, probably $300 or so, even though an OEM copy is much, much less.
Anyway, my point is: This is stupid. I don't know why you want to be so hard-headed about it. Just think of the implications across so many industries if this sort of thing is allowed.
As others have said, if you don't want a notebook with Windows, don't buy one. If you don't want a Chrysler with a Mitsubishi engine, don't buy one.
Yeah, sure, what if every make car worth owning had a Mitsubishi engine, wouldn't that change things? And what if YOU think they were forced by the Mitsubishi monopoly to put them in? Granted.
Well, what if THEY feel 99.9% of their customers want the Mitsubishi engine, and to change their production process would cause them undue expense?
Did you offer to pay them NOT to put windows in? I think if these frivolous cases every make it to the Supreme Court (assuming US) it will boil down to just that - that's the most anyone cold hope for and it probably won't fly either.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
The thing is, Daimler-Chrysler is in the car selling business. They sell cars. Engines form an integral part of a car. In case you wanted to use a different engine you have the option of selling your engine to someone else, and receive a resonable price for it as it is "new". The problem with the OS is threefold:
<li>A computer company is in the computer manufacturing business, not the software sales business, and the OS is not so much an integral part of the computer as an engine is of a car.</li>
<li>An engine doesn't enforce you to agree upon an aditional license that appears to you for the first time you start the engine.</li>
<li>An engine is transferable (you can sell it) while the preloaded copy of the microsoft OS is bound to that particular machine, and is not allowed to be transferred.
Even then there is also the point that the MS EULA clearly states that someone not accepting it can get a refund from the person he got the software from (in this case Toshiba)
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Apples and ornages. Software is added to the laptop after it is built, and, unlike an engine, costs virtually NOTHING to copy/install. I would suggest that you investigate an issue at least to some degree before commenting on how "stupid" it is, lest you may appear "stupid" yourself.
Not comparable
Except that in the case of a car, he could legally sell the unused engine to someone who DID want it in order to recoup (part of) what he was forced to pay.
Not only was he forced to buy an MS product he didn't want, he's not even allowed to sell it to someone else.
Re: Not a good example
Did the engine come with a provision for a refund? If not, then this is not a good example. If so, (which you didn't mention) then you should go get your money! (assuming you don't want to use it)
Keep it simple,
Adam Kosmin
Re: Not a good example
You've got your provision for a refund - return the entire item that you purchased, not just a part of it. And consider yourself lucky, because if it had been the Chrysler and you had tried this cockamamie scheme, especially after being expressly told that you couldn't, you wouldn't get a refund at all.
I know you're basically preaching to the choir here, but this has such a "been there, done that" kinda feel to it. It's been going on for years - has anyone actually won one of these? Even if anyone did ever win, you probably exempted yourself by admitting that you specifically asked about it before the purchase, were told no, and decided to make the purchase anyway. And in your case, if the Toshiba rep was correct, before you opened the notebook itself they warned you again that you couldn't do it. The fact that once you had gone past that point and found MS' EULA and it seemed to give you new rights, it still couldn't nullify your agreement with Toshiba, which had warned you at least twice that it would not accept it.
Re: Not a good example
"The fact that once you had gone past that point and found MS' EULA and it seemed to give you new rights, it still couldn't nullify your agreement with Toshiba, which had warned you at least twice that it would not accept it."
Regarding rights granted by the EULA, I believe all it says is that you can return it for a refund. It doesn't say that you can define the terms of that refund. i.e. remove the software from a larger product and then ask for a refund. THe software was not purchased separately so why should it be refunded separately.
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Very smart indeed. But you forgot that Chrysler or others
do NOT offer the kind of EULA being offered by Toshiba/MS!!!
If it says I am entitled to a refund, then I AM entitled to a
refund. What part of that is so hard for you to understand?
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Exactly, Chrysler wouldn't give you a refund, even on the whole car, especially after they told you they wouldn't sell it to you without the engine.
At least he can return the whole package for a refund, even after buying the thing in spite of having been told it wouldn't be un-bundled.
I was just making a point about the greater ramnifications of this whole un-bundling concept. It's just plain wacky to me.
If someone wanted to pursue the "monopoly" angle, I wouldn't blame them. That is, that Toshiba didn't have a choice, etc. which has already some court backing. But just buying something and then taking it apart and trying to force the vendor to refund you for individual parts is a go-nowhere proposition. I think that's basically well known and why the first poster called this "old news".
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
That would indeed be the case if it were a PART (ie video card, HDD, etc) Softwware is not a PART
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
Although I lament Toshiba's stated position, I can't really find legal fault. They have offered a full refund, but not for the software alone. They say that they are selling a product comprised of both hardware and software, and that they can't (or won't) sell their product in separate parts. That's surely their right.
I suppose you could liken it to saying that you want to buy the product sans keyboard, and in which case probably they would sell you, not a single product (laptop without keyboard), but a bunch of spare parts: battery, case, power supply, screen, and so on. That may well be the crunch: You certainly can buy spare parts sufficient to assemle a Toshiba laptop without Windows, but I bet it would cost a signifcant amount more than a new laptop (including Windows.)
davidn at rebel dot net dot au
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
I would do either:
a. file a case with the small claims court.
b. return the laptop for a full refund and buy one from a reputable company.
Taking the Toshiba cocksuckers to the claims court would give a greater amount of satisfaction but considerably more effort than the latter option.
Re: Your suggestions
Thanks for taking the time to post. I will comment on your suggestions because I see these misconceptions too often in our community and feel obligated to try and enlighten those that are making the same mistakes.
Small claims court: According to my understanding of this approach, it just seems unproductive since although I'm sure I would receive a favorable ruling, I would be left with no way to collect the refund that is owed to me. Hence, nothing would get done. Also, it's important to acknowledge the lack of effect this would have on changing "the monopoly" as we know it. There is a bigger picture here, a bigger problem, and we're going to fight it in a bigger court room this time.
Regarding your suggestion to return the laptop and go buy from some other company, I don't think this is the right thought process. Why shouldn't you be able to buy the hardware that YOU want just because you're trying to avoid being affected by this issue. It is important to realize that by trying to avoid the issue by purchasing from another vendor, you are actually allowing yourself to BE affected since you are now compromising and limiting yourself.
Adam Kosmin
Please send me your contact information if you want to support t
I am working to create a central location for us to keep up to date with this information. In the mean time, it's imortant to realize that this story's headline will continue to drop lower and lower on the Journal's front page and eventually lose the ability to generate attention. If you support this issue, I would really appreciate it if you send me your contact information so I can follow up with you when the new site is ready. This message is especially being directed to those of you that feel you are entitled to a refund for your unused copy of a Microsoft operating system. Please send your info to me at akosminATnyp.org
All the best,
Adam Kosmin
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
I am impressed with the suport for Adam from the community. I too am tired of seeing large or even small companies pushing the consumer. I suport your interest in this matter and I very interested to see what would be the out come. It is good to know when there is a good cause that the comunity can and would stick together to fight for the common good. I hope you find what you are looking for. I like both the argument of getting your refund and the notion of reaching into their pocket books for future, not wanted purchases. As an individual consumer, I have not been able to change things but I hope as a comunity at large will. I belive in when there are number of people banning together, there is power. I am a person of principle and agree with sticking to what one belives.
I am not much help with the wintell situation, curently I use and purchase Apple Macintoshes for which I use the Mac OS (digital imaging) and I install and use Linux on other Power Macs for servers and workstations. But I do suport your cause and hope you find what you are looking for, weather it is the return of the procuct (windows) or making an important inpact on future purchasing descison of other companies.
Good luck and keep us informed.
-Adam D. (not Adam Kosmin)
Simple ! Boycott Toshiba !
Simple ! Boycott Toshiba and buy a notebook from the chinese ECS. I have a desktote (www.desknote.biz) that comes with no operating system installed and with a CD of ThizLinux distribuition :-)
Chinese are more smarter than japaneses :-))
Re: Simple ! Boycott Toshiba !
As an American working in Japan I will tel you BS. As for the origional post I wonder do we have enough people to sign on and start a class action suit against this illegal practice???
Re: Yes to the question about a class action
Yes we do. I need you guys to start contacting me. Please send your contact information to me at akosminATnyp.org and I will fill you in the plans.
Adam Kosmin
Re: The Toshiba Standoff
You people have to understand this:
Toshiba (or any ohter) have not realy a choise of choosing the OS of your pc.
Imaging a company begining a war with M$ over the OS for a market less then 10%. Not too logical for any company.
The only good thing with toshiba is that they care to help you (of the record ) on pages like this:
they are begining to use linux (see the magnia SG20 server)
and they are thinking about using linux in the future
(so go vote)
We can not change the world in one night, but if we are asking for it sometime in the future toshiba (and other companies) will use linux on theyre pc's if there costumers that ask for it(there is money in it)
Some Ideas
I am not a lawyer, but I have discussed EULAs and copyrights with several of them. The MS EULA is a sham, a fraud, and a joke. It is time that it is torn down. These comanies hide behind their EULA when it suits them, but run away from it when it is inconvenient.
I believe you should look for an attourney to file suit in Federal Court against both Toshiba and Microsoft. Consider making the following claims:
1) Misusue of Copyright - ask for a declaritory judgement that MS and Toshiba are jointly committing "misuse of copyright" and that the copyright on Windows should be unenforcable *for all Toshiba customers* until the misuse is fixed.
2) Class action breach of contract - ask the court to find that Toshiba and Microsoft have jointly breached their own EULA against anyone who wants a refund
3) Antitrust violation for tying the OS to the computer. Sue both Toshiba and MS jointly for this on behalf of all of their constomers.
4) In the alternative, ask for a declatory judgement that the MS EULA is NEVER enforcable because:
A) It is preempted by federal copyright law if it is part of the conract of sale and therefore not an "extra element" to the "first sale"
B) It is "unconscionable", no matter how it is formed
C) In the alter-alternative to A: It is not valid under the UCC, since it is not a valid amendment to the contract of sale (it lacks the elements of a contrat needed to stand alone)
4) Class action deceptive trade practices: you and others like you bought something you didn't need or want only because you relied on the refund policy
Advice for finding a lawyer: you should look up some published cases where Microsoft was the defendent to see who the firm representing the plaintiff was. Contact those firms to see if they will take your case on a contingency basis. Contact the EFF. Find some law professors who wrote amicus briefs against MS in the antitrust case and write and ask for their advice on how to proceed.


text:
I don't see any use to clemency for Jin'rokh. Tank damage is laughable so 2sacrifices doesn't matter, 2salavations not useful either since no adds or aggro pb, 2prot neither since no dispellable debuff with it, and 2freedom useless since no snares.
Really, clemency is great on lots of fights, but for Jin'rokh, those 2 divine shields to heal up the raid during storms and those DP for self-dispell+storms, US is king on Jin'rokh.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
'Ubiquinol is the reduced version of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10, aka ubiquinone). They're actually the same molecule, but when CoQ10 is reduced it takes on two electrons, which turns it into what we call ubiquinol.
In your body, this conversion occurs thousands of times every second inside your mitochondria — the "engine" of each cell in which energy is produced'


text:
The A' Design Awards & CompetitionCategories Articles
The A' Design Award is an annual showcase for the world's best design concepts, prototypes and finished products. Registrations for the new edition are still open until September 30 btw! We were asked to select 5 of our favorite winners from the 2011-2012 edition and I must tell you it was a hard process because their winner list has literally tons of great designs. Here we go:
Smart Media System by Alexander Werbickas
Wirelessly streaming any media to any device that is connected to the network is unique in today's market. The Hub acts as a central gate and also has the ability to send a split data signal to the TV and the Smart Controller. Mandatory advertisements are sent to the Smart Controller periodically while your media continues on the TV. This allows the user to gain metadata from the advertisements creating a one of a kind interaction. The transforming Smart Controller is also unique in its ability to give the user multiple options for interaction along with the Camera and Charging Dock.
Club House by Kris Lin
This case is positioned to be a high-end club, where celebrities are expected to gather. The overall style is a new style of Orientalism based on the concept of [resort hotel in Southeast Asia]. Its functions include a lobby, bar, tea, video hall, VIP room, swimming pool, gym and dance studio and so on. Its interior space is very open, it has a very inclined roof, the ceilings are expected to show the feeling of wooden buildings of Southeast Asia, so the use of [Truss] in the ceiling design and integration of the lighting in the trussed ceilings, make the whole building full of harmony and a new Orientalism of Southeast Asian-style.
Good Morning 2012 "farm" Calendar by Katsumi Tamura
Farm is a kitset paper animal calendar. Fully assembled it makes a delightful miniature farm complete with six different animals.
Dhyana Armchair by Salvatore Guzzo
Armchair intended as an everyday meditation pod, with seating option inspired to yoga practice. the Armachair/Bergerè is suitable for cross-legged position (loto position in yoga meditation) with the optional position of the headreast: The conch-shell shape inspired design, the 8-shape figure symbolism shoud convey and inspire mind response of profound stillness and concentration
Glasson 40″ Led Tv by Vestel Id Team
It's a frameless design collection with different design solutions in variable sizes with glass element. Design elegance created with the transparency of glass continues through metal finishes encircling the display in big sizes. Without the accustomed plastic front cover and bezel, design relates through the virtual world and the audience with drastically reduced thickness in 40″, 46″ and 55″ products. The whole metal frame holding the glass front enhances the design quality.


text:
Sunday's rain in Augusta brought welcome relief to lawns and gardens -- and to city water officials, allowing them to lift a outdoor watering ban Monday for part of south Richmond County.
Utilities Director Max Hicks lifted the ban that had been in effect between Bobby Jones Expressway south to Spirit Creek and from U.S. Highway 1 on the west to Doug Barnard Parkway on the east.
Residents in that area now are under odd-even restrictions and may water outdoors one hour on their designated day, Mr. Hicks said.
"That will give us data that we need for another week on how that area does under one-hour odd-even watering situations," he said. "Then, if we can go to the odd-even period with no restriction, we'll do that."
The rest of Augusta is under odd-even restrictions.
Odd-even restrictions mean residents whose addresses end with an odd number can water on odd days of the month.
But predictions are for more drought into next year. That is expected to tax the city's water distribution and storage systems, which need at least $70 million worth of improvements. And this does not take into account the millions that will be needed for sewer system improvements.
City officials said they hope to borrow an additional $40 million to $50 million through a water-revenue bond issue next year. The rest of the needed money would come from a 1 cent special-purpose sales tax -- if the tax is extended by voters next year.
Water rates will go up 1.5 percent April 1. And in 2001, water customers will be called on to help pay off the bond debt with a much larger rate increase, officials said.
Meanwhile, Mr. Hicks has proposed a pared-down $30 million utilities operating budget for next year in hopes of assuring New York bond officials that Augusta can abide by the terms of its previous $66.6 million bond issue.
The money from that 1996 bond issue is being used to construct the 60-inch water line from Augusta Canal to the water treatment plant on Highland Avenue.
The terms of that issue put limits on the amount of money the city could divert from water and sewer revenues to the city's general fund. Next year the limit is $1 million, but Mr. Hicks said he could not balance the department's budget if that much is taken out.
Siphoning off money from the water department to keep the city running created many of the current problems with the water system, Mr. Hicks said.
The former city of Augusta transferred $80 million from water and sewer revenues to keep the city running during the nine years before consolidation. Repairs to water and sewer facilities and equipment were neglected because there was no money for them, Mr. Hicks said.
Last summer, the main turbine and backup pumping equipment at the pumping station failed, triggering months of outdoor restrictions and bans. This year, the shortages have centered in the Tobacco Road area, where the demand has outstripped the city's capacity to provide water during peak usage times.
Friday, the Faircrest tank at Tobacco Road and U.S. Highway 25 dipped dangerously low for the first time in 10 years, Mr. Hicks said.
To keep the year 2000 budget at $30 million, many needs have been postponed, Mr. Hicks said.
"We will not buy new trucks. We did not provide sewer to additional pockets of unsewered areas. We did not buy a new utility billing system or put our customer-service division in one facility," Mr. Hicks said.
"And there were other water-line expansion projects we did not put into this budget," he said. "But what we did do is be sure we can meet the conditions of our bond covenants, so that when we go to the lending institutions they will know we are people of our word."
Sylvia Cooper can be reached at (706) 823-3228 or firstname.lastname@example.com.
|Area watering limits Richmond County:
A water ban has been lifted for neighborhoods between Bobby Jones Expressway and Spirit Creek from U.S. Highway 1 to Doug Barnard Parkway. Residents in these areas must follow even-odd restrictions. However, they can water only one hour on the designated days.
Even-odd restrictions, with no one- hour mandate, are in effect for the remainder of the county.
Columbia County:
Even-odd watering allowed 5 to 9 a.m. and 5 to 9 p.m. (including Harlem and Grovetown).
Odd-even restrictions mean residents whose addresses end with an odd number can water on odd days of the month, while residents whose addresses end with an even number can water on even days of the month.
-- Staff Reports
© 2018. All Rights Reserved. | Contact Us


text:
Welcome to my CRB Photography web site. You will find the photography in the Gallery covers many genres including landscape, macro, abstract, and still life. The work is presented as photographs, artistic media, or altered reality.
Featured Photographs
The photographs below have been selected by the publishing house, Image Conscious of San Francisco, for sale on their website and third party art websites. You can connect to www.imageconscious.com or google my photograph title with my name to find websites from around the world that sell the photographs.
"Sand Dunes I"
"Nature's Palette"
"Radiant Dawn"
"Caribbean Waters"
"Rise and Shine"
"Fall Colours"
"Stairway to Paradise"
"Evening on the Bay"
"Cherries in Bloom"
"Sand Dunes II"
"Island Haven"
"Ebb Tide"
"Sea Grapes at Sunset"
"Cherry Blossom Trail"
"Cherry Blossom Path"
"Quiet Retreat"
"Garden Entrance"
"Quiet Morning"
"Morning at the Beach"
"The Road Ahead"


text:
This is a reader-submitted post written as part of the "Come write for OTE (and me)" feature running while Kristi Gustafson, blog moderator and author, is out of the office.
The post is not written by Kristi Gustafson. Jennifer Roman and Melissa Turley are the authors. (They are associated with the store.)
Many of us Capital District residents may hide our love and affection for the area by calling it Smalbany, but deep down we all know the 518-region holds a special place in our hearts. Why not show everyone our Upstate NY allegiance by wearing "(518)" and "Troylet" tanks? Whether you call Saratoga, Troy, Albany or any town in-between home, these tanks make a recognizable statement.
Not only are they fun, but they are also made and sold locally at Some Girls boutique in Troy. The "(518)" and "Troylet" tanks are part of the House of Bimbo line, available at Some Girls boutique at 13 2nd Street in Troy, NY. The fun and fresh Some Girls boutique not only carries and produces the House of Bimbo line created by its founder, but it also has great merchandise from NYC, L.A. and your favorite up and coming brands.
Check out Some Girls boutique on Facebook at www.facebook.com/somegirlsboutique, follow us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/somegirlsbtq, or check out the website at www.somegirlsboutique.com. If you are looking to find out more about House of Bimbo, check out the website at www.houseofbimbo.com.
Mention "On the Edge" when you come in to shop and receive 20 percent off your entire purchase at Some Girls boutique.


text:
Sara Gilbert - who guest starred on three Big Bang episodes last season as Leslie Winkle - has joined the cast of the series as a regular.
Gilbert played a colleague and sometimes love interest of Leonard's (Johnny Galecki). Interestingly, Galecki and Gilbert also starred together as romantic interests on Roseanne.
Wonder how this will impact the burgeoning Leonard/Penny relationship...
Source: THR


text:
nmlci is a wonderful command to configure the network profiles on Redhat Enterprise Linux 7. nmcli also supports the command completion function by pressing "tab" key but still you need to use the quotes properly. nmtui is an alternative command for nmcli which is based on "Text User Interface". It will be useful for RHEL-7 Beginners but experienced system administrators will still prefer to use nmcli. Let's play with nmtui .
Note: nmtui can be executed from putty and it doesn't require graphical display.
Adding the new connection using nmtui
1. Login to RHEL7 and execute "nmtui" in putty terminal.
[root@server1-UA ~]#nmtui
2. Select edit connection and enter OK to continue. (use tab key to navigate).
3. Here you can see the current network profile(System eth0). Select the "Add" and press enter to add new connection profile.
4.Once you select "Add", you will get the below screen . Select "Ethernet" and create it .
5.Enter the new profile name and device name(existing device) for the new connection. Select the "Automatic" and press enter.
You will get a option to select the connection type like below. Select "Manual" , if you want to configure the "static" IP.
6.Click on the "show" for IPv4 configuration.
7. Enter the IP,gateway and DNS servers details. Click "OK" to complete it .
8. Quit the nmtui .
At this point, we have successfully created the new network connection profile.But yet to activate it .
9. Let me activate the newly created profile using "nmtui". Launch nmtui again. Select "Activate a connection" and press "OK".
10. Select the connection and activate it . At this point , your system will be switched to the new profile. So always activate the connection from console.
11.Let me check the connection details using nmcli command.
[root@server1-UA ~]#nmcli connection show NAME UUID TYPE DEVICE UA_NEW 52569531-42ff-4b0d-91e8-b7d07d19c697 802-3-ethernet eth0 System eth0 5fb06bd0-0bb0-7ffb-45f1-d6edd65f3e03 802-3-ethernet ---- [root@server1-UA ~]#
12. Check the IP and route details using "ip" command.
We have successfully configured the new network profile and activated using nmtui
Hope this article is informative to you .
Share it ! Comment it !! Be Sociable !!!


text:
Le Dame Footwear is the brand associated with Walk a Mile in Her Shoes®. Our international initiative has been associated with Bernie Fatla and Le Dame for over 10 years. Our trademark shoe, the "Natalie" was designed by Bernie himself. We love the shoe for it's class, sass and durability. The Le Dame Footwear brand is associated with high quality and high style. Bernie Fatla is energetic, professional, tireless and full of ideas and charm. We love our trademark shoe and we love our association with a person who cares deeply, works tirelessly and maintains integrity, dependability and professionalism in all his interactions with ourselves and our constituents. Bernie is fantastic with people and sales. His energy and ideas have contributed to the success of our initiative. Every year we receive offers from other shoe vendors to beat his price or give us some kind of deal. Nothing could woo us away from the relationship we have with Bernie Fatla and Le Dame Shoes.Patti Dengler, Walk Program Director Walk a Mile in Her Shoes® a project of Venture Humanity, Inc. - Patti Dengler, Walk Program Director
Classic ballet flat in a soft full grain nappa leather with a rounded toe character for a more comfortable fit. Full cushion insole and flexible outsole.
All sizes come in a Men's medium width D
Comments are closed.Write Your Own Review
Le Dame Footwear is committed to bringing our customers fashionable, feminine-styled footwear in a large shoe size. Our high-quality, affordable footwear is designed to specifically to meet the needs of customers who wear a women's size 10 ½ to 17 (wide) or a men's size 9 to 15 (medium) in the latest styles.Read Testimonials Here
Contact Us
Sitemap | Blog | Visit us on Google+
© 2015 Le Dame. All Rights Reserved.


text:
For Sale
Build your dream - take in the serenity
If you are after the peace and tranquility and the natural beauty of a bush block, close to the river, and to amenities, then this 2.8 acre piece of land is for you. This block is not on a main road, but has town water and power at the front gate and you will enjoy the fact that you are only 15 minutes to town. Build your own home to capture the views and maintain the serenity that this block offers. You will enjoy the swimming hole which is a short walk down the lane. Certainly worth an inspection to start making your dream a reality.
Location maps are provided by Google Maps. Elders accepts no responsibility for the accuracy, completeness or timeliness of the information displayed


text:
Artist Fellowship Applications
Download the 2017 Fellowship application here.
SWAIA YOUTH FELLOWSHIPS: 4 Awardees
Our youth fellowships are for young artists who participate in the 2017 Indian Market. The monetary award is intended to help them with the purchase of supplies or research projects to assist them in enhancing their skills. Youth Fellows will receive:
- A $500 monetary award
SWAIA DISCOVERY FELLOWSHIP: 2 Awardees
The SWAIA Discovery Fellowship intends to assist Native artists in the exploration of their artistic process and push the boundaries of their respective art form. Traditional or contemporary, emerging artist or established; this fellowship rewards innovation and encourages applicants to expand their work into undefined areas. The fellowship funds may be used to purchase materials, equipment or to cover research expenses including travel, but a highly detailed project plan should drive the fellowship. Higher scores will be given to applicants that provide specific outlines of the project and their use of the fellowship funds.
Discovery Fellows will receive:
- A $3,500 monetary award ($2500 initial payment upon Award of Fellowship; $1000 balance to be paid at the completion of your project. Deadline for completion is December 31, 2017.)
- A complimentary booth at the 2017 Santa Fe Indian Market (Excludes writers and filmmakers)
Thank you!


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soundtrek product serial number download now eVas full file
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The main advantage of the personal computer in a MIDI system is that it can serve a number of different purposes, depending on the software that is loaded.xLyrix.com the best place for reading lyrics and karaokeWelcome to DriverRequest.com! One of the very few, totally volunteer-supported device driver websites on the Internet. There are no gimmicks, or spyware traps just ...
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text:
What foods are kosher for Passover?
I am planning a seder dinner for several friends and came across a seder menu in which a salad made with quinoa was used. I am not Jewish and was wondering if anyone knew if quinoa was kosher for Passover? And if it is not kosher, is there another type of grain or unleavened product that could be substituted like couscous or barley? Thanks so much!


text:
Johny,

Wow:

'would be helpful if NB had a "real" mission statement like that -- in addition to the fake legal one.'

There is no time like the present ;)

Note: "accountable" does not mean "criminal" or "indicted" or "penalized" it could very well mean that the membership is entitled to say 'Hey, what happened here'? and perhaps: even everyone who ever used the oscilloscope maybe admits or accepts that, yes, used equipment breaks but that's why we have insurance or a budget; or on the flip-side, a very negligent user can say 'Oops, sorry, I'll chip in for the new one' or 'Jeez, I don't have any money, but I just finished fixing the door system ;)' or 'I didn't know what I was doing, it won't happen again!'

To which you can reply "I'll be happy to show you how the new one works."

Naomi,

I think we're at 99.9% agreement. I like this term "minor scaling problem" it seems apt and more contextual than a divergent array of narratives I've been picking up.

We perhaps agree more in my eyes because I simply think there are good systems for inventory, but neither NB or sudo are currently using them. In fact @Juul is working on a prototype of a decentralized inventory solution for all hackerspaces--MyceliaĀhttps://github.com/Juul/mycelia-zero

Also, your general assessment of the situation is clarifying, helpful, and courageous. The Board must then do near-nothing and defer to the membership, acquiesce to consensus--and participate as members in their own right! It is painful, but you build something more, you weave the fabric of your community, and you reap what you sew.

Quickly, to the oscilloscopes! We have to hackĀthe planet.

// Matt

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Naomi Most <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote:

Thank you for all of this, Matt.

 You and I agree about 99%. ĀThe part where we diverge is what Johny
 brought up: that it would be nice if things could Just Get Fixed.

 I submit that we have a minor scaling problem (things get broken and
 it's very hard to hold anyone responsible, toilet paper is out, people
 are sleeping in the space, etc).

 We can solve these problems by assigning the elected board with
 certain power and responsibilities that fill in these "tragedy of the
 commons" types of gaps.

 But this minor scaling problem has been escalated in importance to an
 "OMG EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE" problem in which, suddenly, we need to
 have an authoritarian oligarchy.

 The majority of the board is now wasting no time in claiming powers
 that override the membership in every possible way, and which assign
 to the membership a merely symbolic gesture of deciding its own fate.
 Because if the board can always decide, by fiat, to rewrite everything
 about how Noisebridge works, what real power does the membership have?

 We should be getting on to fixing the oscilloscopes.

 --Naomi

 On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Senate <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote:
 > First and very important: What is "Noisebridge"? What is "Sudo Room"? What
 > is a community? Is it the same as the mandated corporate structure that
 > allows one to receive certain designated benefits and constraints from the
 > state as a corporate entity or for that matter a non-profit corporation or
 > further a 501(c)3 or other specific form of education-focused or similar
 > federal tax-exempt entity? Or does this corporate entity exist in order to
 > protect a community from liability? What is a "mission" versus a dynamic,
 > reinventing, practical reality grounded in interpersonal interactions,
 > physical infrastructure, social webs, cultural protocol, documentation,
 > bureaucracy (both good and bad), institutional knowledge, etc? Is every
 > action grounded in some abstract "mission" or does the "mission" rather try
 > to capture and explain to particular audiences what a community is generally
 > about that could never really fully be captured?
 >
 > Also critical: Why was the Noisebridge mission written? Why were the By-Laws
 > made, and the board of directors formed? I can tell you that the board
 > exists because it was a hack--a necessary hack in order to continue existing
 > in the current dominant system. To incorporate. To file paper work. To
 > become a federal 501(c)3. There are benefits, and there are costs, risks,
 > liabilities, protections, opportunities. Trade-offs. Sudo Room is using this
 > hack too given the constraints and the current state of affairs. There are
 > other options, but we've chosen this path and are accepting the risks, with
 > resolve to counter negative effects.
 >
 > Your responses are provocative along several very different assumptions
 > about my arguments, fun! Perhaps you should read sudo room's Articles of
 > Association first and get back to me after that:
 > https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Articles_of_Association Especially read our values
 > section, including "do-ocracy over bureaucracy" pasted below as well.
 >
 > Any participant who contributed to breaking an oscilloscope should be held
 > accountable and there should be an easy system to replace infrastructure
 > speedly--not everything needs to be a centralized decision. Purchase order
 > wiki page? Reimbursements for low-cost items? Internal insurance process for
 > high-cost items? However, in my opinion, for those things that could not
 > easily be sorted on their own, if all else fails, an ultimately democratic
 > consensus process should be used.
 >
 > sudo room is an open, collaborative community of creators and practitioners
 > working toward positive social change. sudo room chooses to:
 >
 > Value open, public discourses over closed, proprietary processes.
 > Value access and transparency over exclusivity.
 > Value solving real problems over hypotheticals, while respecting visions of
 > the future.
 > Value community and collaboration over isolation and competition.
 > Value human judgment over automation and efficiency.
 > Value do-ocracy over bureaucracy.
 > Value safe space over ideology.
 >
 >
 >
 > On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Johny Radio <email@example.com> wrote:
 >>
 >> ------ Original Message ------
 >> From: "Matthew Senate" <firstname.lastname@example.com>
 >>
 >>
 >> By making decisions more "effective", I mean hacks to more accurately
 >> represent the interests and sentiments of the individual participants
 >>
 >>
 >> I think you're saying that your priority is to make sure everyone has a
 >> "voice". For me, effective means creating a project that fulfills it's
 >> Mission. If NB's Mission is to provide technical infrastructure, and it
 >> fails at that, then the process is not "effective"-- even if everyone has a
 >> "voice."
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Otherwise decisions can be hasty, rough around the edges, and misfitting.
 >>
 >>
 >> Well, we already have "rough around the edges, and misfitting" at
 >> Noisebridge-- if we're talking about technical infrastructure. I sense you
 >> don't much care about that.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> I personally contend that efficiency and speed are not always the most
 >> important aspect of a decision-making process
 >>
 >>
 >> i contend that if an oscilloscope is broken, i'm very comfortable
 >> delegating the authority to get it fixed or replaced to someone else. I
 >> don't need a "voice" in that. What i need is an oscilloscope.
 >>
 >
 >
 >

> _______________________________________________
 > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
 > email@example.com
 > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
 >

 --
 Naomi Theora Most
 firstname.lastname@example.com
 +1-415-728-7490

 skype: nthmost

 http://twitter.com/nthmost


text: In searching for threads on making a router extension for my TS 2424 I find plenty of write ups, but most are from 2002 and 2003. As such, the links to most of the photos are no longer available. Do any of you have some more recent photos of your solutions to this add-on? I'd be most grateful if I could have a peek.


text:
Ever since I was a kid I have always loved New Year's Eve. Maybe it's because it gives me the opportunity to spend time with friends and family while I eat appetizers, drink champaign and celebrate what the new year has in store for all of us. For some, the thought of hosting a New Year's Eve party can be a little daunting. The cost, the stress and everything else attached with having people over can be a little overwhelming. The good news is it doesn't have to be. You don't need to spend a lot of money to have Pinterest approved decorations, appetizers and fun games. By following some of these simple tips, you can keep the cost inline with your budget, reduce stress and still ensure that your guests have a great time.
New Year's Eve Decorations
New Year's Eve decorations might be one of the easiest things about throwing a New Year's Eve party. A quick trip to a destination like Party City and you can have all your decorations bought for less than you might expect.
Use Leftover Christmas Ribbons
A great idea for decorating your home is to use any leftover ribbon that you might have from wrapping all of your Christmas presents. Lightly run a knife through it so it give the ribbon slight curls and then hang them from your ceiling. If you want to take this idea a step further you could fill a bunch of balloons with helium, add the Christmas ribbons and then attached different photos of events that happened throughout the past year.
DIY New Year's Party Hats
There is no better way to keep yourself within a budget than getting things for free. Instead of purchasing New Year's party hats, you can make them yourself. All you need to do is print out these free templates, add a little glitter and you're good to go.
DIY Votive Candles
If you are anything like my wife, then you probably love using candles. They make the house smell great and give any occasion a little extra ambiance. The only problem is that the basic candle can get a little boring. Instead, you can try taking your standard votive candle and cover them with gold thumbtacks. To give your New Year's Eve party a little extra sparkle you could even ad a little glitter to the candles.
Appetizer for New Year's Eve
Preparing food tends to be one of the most expensive and the most stressful part of hosting any type of party. Luckily, this doesn't have to be the case. There are several great food options that are quite simple to fix and your guests will love them. Keep in mind that your guests are not looking for you to fix them a ten course meal. A few appetizers that will keep them comfortable, but not make them want to unbutton their pants is perfect.
Cream Cheese Crescent Rolls
A few years ago, my wife and I were celebrating the New Year with some friends and they fixed cream cheese crescent rolls and they have quickly become a go-to appetizer when we have friends over. They are super easy to fix and everyone loves them.
- 1 can of Pillsbury crescent rolls
- 1 container of flavored cream cheese (we use garden vegetable)
- Start by laying your crescent rolls flat on a greased baking pan
- Place approximately 1 Tbsp of cream cheese in the middle of the crescent roll
- Roll up the crescent roll and place evenly on the baking pan
- Cook at 350°F for 13-17 minutes or until golden brown
Slow Cooker Cocktail Meatballs
Another popular appetizer that my wife and I like to fix for our friends is cocktail meatballs. These are super easy, because all you need to do is toss all of the ingredients into a slow cooker. Ingredients
- 1 bag of turkey meatballs (you can use beef)
- 1 jar of chili sauce
- 1 can of jellied cranberry sauce
- 1 package of onion soup mix
- Start by spraying your slow cooker with cooking spray and then add the meatballs
- In a mixing bowl mix together the chili sauce, cranberry sauce and onion soup mix
- Once you have combine the ingredients you can add the mixture to the top of the meatballs
- Cook on high or low until the meatballs are hot
Herbed Cheese Spread
A couple of years ago, I was introduced to Boursin cheese and I absolutely love it. It's perfect on crackers and you can buy a three pack of it at Costco for the price you would pay at the grocery store. If you love Boursin, then you and your guests are going to love this recipe for herbed cheese spread.
- 8 oz whipped butter
- 16 oz cream cheese
- 2 cloves garlic
- 1/2 tsp dried oregano
- 1/4 tsp basil
- 1/4 tsp dill weed
- 1/4 tsp black pepper
- 1/4 tsp thyme
- Mix all of the ingredients in a food processor and then transfer to a bowl
- Place in refrigerator and let sit for at least two hours
New Year's Eve Party Games
A lot of times when we have a party at our house, we have a few different groups of friends that all come together. Sometimes there are people there who don't know each other. A great way to get people introduced is by playing games. It's an easy way to break the ice and make people feel more comfortable. If you are going to be playing a few games at your New Year's Eve party this year then here a few great options.
Guess the Resolution
Here is a great game to see how much you really know about your friends. Everyone should write down what their New Year's resolution is going to be. You then go around and read them to the group and people need to decide who it was that came up with each.
A game that is always a hit is Charades. You could come up with words that are related to New Year's Eve or go with a more general theme. Charades always lead to a lot of laughs and is a guaranteed winner at any party.
Two Truths and a Lie
To get started with this game each guest will need to sit or stand in a circle and think up two truths and a lie about themselves. You will then go around the circle and everyone will try to guess which of the three statements is the lie. This is great way to see how much people really know about you.
Final thought
New Year's is such a fun time of the year because you get to spend time with your friends and family while you eat amazing food and have a few laughs. If it's your turn to host the New Year's Eve party, then it's easy to cut out not only the stress, but also the huge expense.
Sean Bryant
Latest posts by Sean Bryant (see all)
- How Much Debt is Too Much Debt for Your Financial Wellbeing - February 14, 2018
- 4 Ways to Cut Costs and Save Money This Month - February 8, 2018
- Data Privacy Day: 10 Ways To Stay Safe Online and Offline - January 22, 2018


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text:
6th January 2006, 1:32 AM
The swear filter should be made so that you can turn it off or on. Or, members who are too young/don't state their birthday have all the little bad words blanked out in *, but members who are old enough, or turn it off or something can view the cusses. Not that I like swearing or watching people swear, but lots of people are evading the swear filter, rules or no rules, and... yeah. Just my opinion.


text:
Backup dancers may refer to:
- Courtney Gears' backup dancers - backup dancers who appeared on Courtney Gears' music videos.
- Pirate backup dancers - Space Pirates who danced with Ratchet when he used the Holo Pirate Disguise to a Pirate Doorkeeper.
This is a disambiguation page (a navigational aid which lists other pages which might otherwise share the same or a similar title). Links in articles should lead directly to the correct page, not to a disambiguation page.


text:
Stanford and Cal take the field to play for the Stanford Axe in the 113th Big Game this Saturday in Berkeley. All this week, the Farm will host Cardinal spirit events to prepare for the biggest college football game of the season for Stanford, Cal, and the Bay Area. Here's a calendar of notable events in the next 6 days.
- Noon, White Plaza: The Bearial. The Stanford Band leads the impalement of a (fake) bear atop The Claw.
- 11:00 AM-3:00 PM, White Plaza: Bone Marrow Drive. This one's pretty self-explanatory.
- 11:00 AM-3:00 PM, Arrillaga Rec Center: Rivals for Life Blood Drive. Also self-explanatory, except your good deed goes not only to saving lives, but also to beating Cal. Win-win.
- 2:00 PM-Midnight, Jack in the Box Restaurants: Free Tacos. This has nothing to do with Big Game, but everything to do with getting free food. Two tacos normally cost only $1, but so what? Free is free.
- 8:00 PM, 155 Dwinelle Hall, Berkeley: The Big Sing. Stanford and Cal student a cappella groups perform in an event that takes place at Stanford in odd-numbered years.
- 8:00 PM-12:00 AM, Arrillaga Alumni Center: Steve Aoki and Kid Sister. This won't be either artist's first gig for an institution run by Hennessy.
- 11:00 AM-3:00 PM, White Plaza: Bone Marrow Drive.
- Noon, White Plaza: Fan Central (Freshmen vs. Juniors): Lots of class v. class yelling and some free stuff.
- 8:00 PM, MemAud: Gaieties. Annual student show exhibiting lots of naked people and why Stanford hates Cal.
- Noon, White Plaza: Fan Central (Sophomores vs. Seniors). Same as Wednesday, with different classes.
- 8:00 PM, MemAud: Gaieties.
- 10:00 PM, Old Union: Big Game Rally.
- 8:00 PM, MemAud: Gaieties.
- 12:30 PM, California Memorial Stadium: Big Game.


text:
Location & Date
Distinct Views: 29,782
Photo Added: April 15, 2009
Photo Added: April 15, 2009
Comments (5)
The Dutch lion pattern is cleary visible on this pic, well done Mo!
The coolest F-16 flying around today. Full stop. End of.
Thanks for pointing out the bigger picture (comment 1). Cool catch or should i say Cool Cat? :-)
That paint scheme is extraordinary!
Kick-ass paint job, and of of the most awesome planes ever therefore in my opinion, seeing that it is the best demo c/s ever for me and that the F-16 is the moreorless tenth most beautiful plane ever anyway.
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text:
Tony Coe for EMI Lansdowne Series from 1976.
Mary Thomas (vo), Norma Winstone (vo), James Gregory (fl, piccolo), Alan Hacker (cl, bcl), Francis Christou (cl, bcl, ss), Edward Planas (cl, bcl). Tony Coe (cl, bcl, ss, ts), Derek Watkins (tp, flh), Henry Lowther (tp, flh), Kenny Wheeler (tp, flh), Martin Drover (tp, flh), Chris Pyne (tb), Geoffrey Perkins (bass tb), Bill Geldard (bass tb), Trevor Tomkin (perc), Frank Ricotti (perc), Pat Smythe (p, elp, org), Bob Cornford (p, cond), Philip Lee (g), Jennifer Ward-Clarke (cello), Peter Willison (cello), Allen Ford (cello), Vivian Joseph (cello). Daryl Runswick (b)
Recorded under the personal supervision of Denis Preston at Lansdowne Studios London.
Based on poems by Jill Robin
First time out in blogland for this obscure piece of British jazz - a colossal work that blends jazz, rock and classical music.
The composer writes:
When I first thought of the opening of Zeitgeist I soon discovered that the five notes which comprised it suggested a twelve note row - the remaining seven notes following almost as a matter of course - and it is upon this row that the whole piece is based .It opens with a solitary B- flat high on bass clarinet.This is symbolic of the flower and on the words "take this flower" this same note is joined by one a tone below,"Her Days Are Numbered" being reflected musically by a three note figure based on fourths.After some more spoken lines the speaker Mary Thomas becomes singer introducing a chorale like theme "Ah This World" which is heard in canon.
Soon we are plunged into a most violent section expressive of the dissonance and relentlessness of our industrial age and also symbolic of the vicissitudes of modern life.As the noise fades we find ourselves in a rock section.This introduces Norma Winstone who in the spell of the unyielding and hypnotic rhythm attempts to persuade Mary to "join the dance" Mary resists but Norma, after an improvised solo of seductive persuasiveness, finally wins her over.
Then follows some soliloquising from Mary ending in a plea for help, and this takes us into a duet for trumpet (Henry Lowther) and myself on bass clarinet, in which we utilise the note row as a basis for improvisation and during which the ensemble enters periodically to eat up, so to speak, some of our available notes limiting us to more and more with each entry. On the very last brutal cord of this section we are forced to two high notes from which we subsequently descend to "Brother and Sister" sung by Mary & Norma.This culminates in a drum duet by Trevor Thompson and Frank Riccoti in which there 12 drums are tuned to a note row.An ensemble section which ends on a held note on soprano saxophone brings us to the close of side one.
This last note is picked up by Norma at the commencement of side two and leads into the "Love Song" the bass notes and harmony which derives from the note row.To follow there are solos by Phil Lee (guitar) and Kenny Wheeler (fluglehorn) and then Mary sings an inverted version of the song accompanied by Bob Cornford who lays down his baton for the piano keyboard.
A return to the original version of the "Love Song" is followed by a cadenza written for Alan Hacker in which he plays canons bringing out different voices thereof by using contrasting registers of the clarinet and ending with one of his celebrated harmonic glissandi which leads into the final section. Here Norma and later Mary sing "We are Together" with solos from myself on soprano saxophone, Henry Lowther, Frank Ricotti, on vibraphone and Phil Lee. The singers then re-enter and the song is gradually undermined by the chorale like theme which starts on 'celli and is canonically treated .This section reaches a climax then there is a disintegration into an atonal passage.The work ends on a solitary note with which it began-a note transformed in meaning now symbolizing not the doomed flower but the eternal spirit of man-in other words a note of hope.
I should like to dedicate this work to memory of Alban Berg.


text:
Storms are sometimes accompanied by arcus, a roll cloud. Cold air rushes out of a downdraft and lifts warmer air in front of the storm complex up to condensation level, making both a fascinating and menacing sight while it is approaching at high velocity.
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