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Editor's note: We take a break from our regularly scheduled program of food nutrients and depression, analysis of beef liver, phytic acid, surviving rattle snakes and forest fires, and enjoying fantastic sunflower pictures, to bring you a lively discussion of raw milk. Below is my own response to an analysis of my "raw milk white paper" by the Weston A. Price Foundation's Ted Beals.
Raw milk is a great drink but there are a good many people who will ascribe to it many diverse properties. One of these properties is that the beneficial bacteria and enzymes in the milk protect it from contamination. There actually is not debate over whether raw milk has some pathogen-killing properties. It does. The key question is whether there is enough research-based evidence that raw milk kills pathogens quickly and thoroughly enough to provide safety guarantees to consumers. Raw milk consumers should be keenly interested in this topic.
As background, I write about raw milk politics on the Ethicurean and recently published a "white paper" on raw milk's ability to kill pathogens. A good part of my rationale in writing the white paper is posted on the Ethicurean (Memo to raw-milk advocates: Improve information or get sued, an article that is still receiving lively comments).
Basically, raw milk advocates have a poor track record in providing raw milk safety information to consumers. If you have heard that raw milk can never be contaminated because it has built-in safety mechanisms that kill pathogens, then you do not have the full story. Raw milk, like all other food on the planet, offers no safety guarantees. It might kill pathogens; it might not kill pathogens. That conclusion is at least what I found in reviewing the research on raw milk's ability to kill pathogens in my "raw milk white paper." The issue is even more complex because each pathogen (e.g, Campylobacter, E. coli O157:H7, Listeria, Salmonella) behaves differently in raw milk: some populations die-off over time, some grow for awhile then die off, some show no growth or death when put in raw milk. Temperature is also important; most pathogens will grow in raw milk left out on the counter at room temperature; Listeria may die.
Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) member Ted Beals, M.D., disagrees with my basic premise in the fall 2009 issue of the organization's journal, just weeks after the white paper's release (PDF).
In general, Beals does not address the key concern in my paper: Does the research on competitive exclusion provide consumers a guarantee of raw milk safety? Does raw milk kill pathogens quickly and completely so that consumers can be sure of safe milk even when the milk is subject to low levels of contamination? I do hope that if there is an on-going discussion of my white paper, the discussion centers on this key question. However, in this particular instance, it did not.
Appeal to authority
Beals opens his piece by incompletely describing my background and questioning my motives. I have a Ph.D. in political science and I had an expert in infectious disease review my paper to ensure that I described the research properly. Recognizing that I am not a scientist, I have no issue revising the white paper (or anything else I have written) so that it provides the most useful information to consumers. This material is not being presented in order to begin a debate or to "win" an argument, but rather to provide an unbiased viewpoint on a body of research that I read about raw milk killing pathogens.
Beals positions himself as an expert and should provide us with expert quality analysis. He has many years of experience in the medical field and has made a study of dairy microbiology in his retirement. He provided expert testimony for California's raw milk producers last year in an on-going political battle. He lends his expertise to the WAPF and the FTCLDF. You, the reader, may have paid for his analysis of my white paper or at least for its production and distribution as a member of the WAPF. Beals is one of the foundation's biggest guns and I feel honored that they used their best for this particular task. His analysis should be of the highest quality even if it does not address the core concern in my white paper. Let's take a look.
Pathogens are killed
Beals' key argument is that raw milk does kill pathogens, a point I do not actually take issue with. However, in his review of the same scientific literature I examine, he comes to a different conclusion than I. On the second page of his review he discusses my analysis: "She fails to inform readers that in each of these papers, the results and conclusions of these authors is that the inoculated pathogens are killed."
More specifically, Beals reviews a study by Massa and colleagues on E. coli O157:H7 and states: "Even with these huge numbers of pathogens, the E. coli O157:H7 strains failed to grow and died off gradually."
I direct readers to the abstract of the Massa paper because that is as far as we need to go to examine Beals' claim. In the abstract, Massa and colleagues state:
"There was essentially no change in the viable population of three EHEC strains for up to 14 days. The remaining four strains showed an increase in population from <2 log to 3 log cfu ml^−1 in a time period of between 9 and 17 days."
If you own the white paper, you can see the data visualization that makes the finding clear. However, let's review this point for further clarity:
Beals: "..the E. coli O157:H7 strains failed to grow and died off gradually."
Massa et al.: "The remaining four strains showed an increase in population from < 2 to 3 logs cfu / ml in a time period of between 9 and 17 days."
Rose: There is no evidence that raw milk kills pathogens enough to provide consumer guarantees. In fact, this paper shows that some deadly strains of E. coli O157:H7 actually grow in raw milk.
Let's take a look at another example of Beals' analysis.
On the second page of his review, Beals describes the Pitt paper on Listeria monocytogenes. He says: "After fifty-six hours no viable cells of L. mono were detected." As I describe in my paper, that experiment was at room temperature and it does provide evidence that raw milk kills Listeria monocytogenes. Beals and I agree. But the story does not end there. In reference to Beals' more general criticism of my white paper – that the research shows "the inoculated pathogens are killed" – this particular paper on Listeria monocytogenes finds something different when the milk is kept at refrigeration temperatures:
"After incubation at 4°C and 7°C for 288 h (12 days) the true psychrotrophic nature of L. monocytogenes was apparent. The concentration of L. monocytogenes increased from an initial inoculum of approximately 10^4 cfu/mL to a final density of 10^6-10^7 cfu/mL at 4°C and 10^7-10^8 cfu/mL at 7°C."
"Psychotropic" means that the bacteria can survive or thrive in a cold environment. In contrast, bacteria such as Salmonella generally do not grow in the refrigerator, but can grow rapidly at room temperature (again illustrating the complexity of the topic since each pathogen, and sometimes even different strains of a species, behave differently in raw milk).
Again, for clarification on the Pitt paper:
Beals: "She fails to inform readers that in each of these papers, the results and conclusions of these authors is that the inoculated pathogens are killed."
Pitt et al.: "The concentration of L. monocytogenes increased from an initial inoculum of approximately 10^4 cfu/mL to a final density of 10^6-10^7 cfu/mL at 4°C and 10^7-10^8 cfu/mL at 7°C."
Rose: Raw milk does kill pathogens in some circumstances, as I describe in my paper. In other cases the pathogen counts stay the same or grow. As stated in the paper, Listeria monocytogenes numbers increased (were not killed) in a cold environment.
Huge numbers
In the literature on competitive exclusion, researchers inoculate milk with large numbers of pathogens – seven or more logs (tens of millions of pathogenic cells). These large numbers are not a realistic snap shot of actual outbreak situations. That is a point I make in my paper. Beals spends a great deal of ink space describing why these "huge number" studies are flawed and why they should not serve as a basis for judging the pathogen-killing ability of raw milk. Beals' review reads as if the weakness is in my analysis – as if I had never considered this issue.
Reading Beals, I recognized a circular argument – WAPF appears to be using these same "large number" studies to tell consumers that raw milk kills pathogens and yet Beals is critical of their application to this research question. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I asked him by email if he has other studies (using smaller numbers of inoculum) that support his conclusions that raw milk kills pathogens. He has not responded as of the time of writing this response.
As it turns out, we need to look no further than my own paper for studies that used smaller numbers of pathogens to determine if they die, stay the same, or grow in raw milk.
A 1997 study of E. coli O157:H7 examined the growth and decline of the bacteria in pasteurized and raw milk (Wang et al. 1997) using inocula of two sizes: 3 logs and 5 logs. If we are concerned that the "huge number" studies represent situations in which the raw milk pathogen-killing properties are overwhelmed and, at the same time, we argue that raw milk does quickly and completely kill pathogens in a small contamination event, we would expect smaller inocula studies to show increasing effectiveness in pathogen-killing.
Put simply, the less E.coli you spike the milk with, the better job the milk should do killing it under Beals' argument.
In fact, we do not see this. The Wang study shows that the 3 logs of pathogenic E. coli grow at temperatures of 8 degrees Celsius and above for the first few days. The bacteria do then begin to decline. At 8 degrees, 15 degrees, and 22 degrees Celsius, the pathogen grows first before it begins to decline. In only one experiment was it killed completely — at 22 degrees Celsius the researchers do not recover the bacteria on Day 14, but did so on Day 7. Indeed, consumers could chug the milk on Day 14 without worry if they kept it under those warm conditions. Those who chugged it on Day 7 or earlier (and perhaps a few days later) could well end up in a hospital. In the best case, the E. coli in milk kept at 5 degrees Celsius did not grow at all and did decline over the four-week period. Consumers would have been zapped by this milk as well (because the pathogen was never killed completely and the infectious dose is low), but it declines in raw and pasteurized milk nevertheless.
The researchers do not present the data from their 5 log experiments. They do state that the results from the two sets of experiments are similar, contrary to what Beals would predict.
As a second test of Beals' argument, there is a study underway at UC Davis by Linda Harris in which researchers inoculate commercial raw milk from Organic Pastures and Claravale with Salmonella. They inoculate the milk with only 2 logs of Salmonella and hold the milk at room temperature and at refrigeration temperature. As an aside, Harris' research is noteworthy in that it uses raw milk from legal, licensed and inspected raw dairies in its experiments.
Since Harris is using smaller counts of Salmonella – hundreds of cells instead of tens of millions – we would expect to observe the milk's good bacteria and enzymes working hard to protect the consumer. Minimally, it should be less "overwhelmed" by the lower levels of Salmonella put into the milk by the researchers. Harris' work is unpublished but you can see preliminary evidence in slides 15 and 18 of this PDF.
From page 15 of version 1.0 of my raw milk white paper:
Harris also studied fairly low levels of Salmonella in milk – two logs of Salmonella or hundreds of cells. This low level of Salmonella may be closer to real-life contamination events, particularly compared to studies that added seven logs of the pathogen (10,000,000+ cells).
Preliminary findings from Harris' work show that the Salmonella numbers do not decrease over a seven-day period when the milk is held at refrigeration temperatures. Held at room temperatures, the Salmonella numbers grew from hundreds of cells to hundreds of thousands of cells within two days.
Let's read Beals again: "She fails to inform readers that in each of these papers, the results and conclusions of these authors is that the inoculated pathogens are killed."
Now read Harris as cited by Jay-Russell: "Conclusion: 3+ log increase of Salmonella at room temperature" (slide 18 here: PDF).
Rose: Raw milk, like life, provides no guarantees. In fact, raw milk from California's licensed raw dairies can grow Salmonella if left to clabber outside of the refrigerator.
In fairness to Beals, the Harris research is not yet published but I do know that the researcher is easily found and, in fact, I describe the study in my white paper. I asked Beals for clarification on this omission but he has not responded to my email.
Allow me to add as well that I learned about the "huge numbers" literature in the first place from raw milk advocacy sources. If the "huge numbers" problem is such a critical flaw in the research, why then do advocacy sources cite it as evidence that raw milk is safe? It is not logical that the Doyle study would be cited for years as evidence that raw milk is "uniquely safe" only now to find out that the Doyle experiment was flawed in the first place according to WAPF because Doyle used "huge numbers" to conduct the experiment. Where are the non-flawed experiments that WAPF bases its claims on? They should form the core part of a WAPF rebuttal should there be one.
"Human strains"
The most intriguing part of Beals' analysis is that I fail to discuss the origin of pathogen strains. Let's discuss that now.
As background, Beals offers a graph of the decline in Campylobacter jejuni in raw milk. He questions why I do not use it. I did not include the graph because I needed permission from the publisher and I did not have the support of a million dollar foundation to get permission for me. Basically, the graph I use and the graph he uses tells the same story: consumers have no guarantee that raw milk will kill Campylobacter jejuni quickly enough and thoroughly enough to guarantee consumer safety. I have no intent to deceive people using a different graph. Again, look closely at the graph, especially the x axis that shows the number of days it takes before the Campylobacter population is completely dead. Beals' blanket (and oversimplified) statement that raw milk kills pathogens does no service in educating consumers. Consumers would be sick if they drank this milk fresh.
It is from this graph that Beals' comment emerges about the nonhuman source of that Campylobacter jejuni strain.
Referring to the graph, Beals implies that only three of the strains actually matter: "Only three of these strains are from human sources (a fact that Rose omits from her report). All strains do show reduction in pathogens with time. The only line without a steep decline (the steeper the line the faster the pathogens were dying) tracks a nonhuman strain."
Indeed, the strain that does not die off very quickly and is still present in large amounts on Day 21, is not of human origin. What that means is that the strain was isolated in a nonhuman specimen. The strain may or may not make humans sick. We do not know. Even Campylobacter jejuni isolated in humans may or may not have made those same humans sick. In this particular Campylobacter jejuni study, these researchers had access to these various strains in their lab and they used them.
Our key question: Does the origin of the strain matter? Not really.
What matters are these questions:
(1) Can the strain make us sick?
(2) Can the strain make it into raw milk?
I do not have information on the first point. Some Campylobacter jejuni strains make us sick, some do not. I asked an expert in Campylobacter jejuni to confirm whether this particular strain has been implicated in an outbreak. The strain number could not be found in the DNA typing databases where outbreak strains are catalogued. What this means is that we do not have enough information to know if the strain is pathogenic. It is like all Campylobacter jejuni strains: it may or may not be pathogenic.
Let's explore the second question: Can the strain (the one that won't die off completely) make it into raw milk?
Let's consider some examples. If we are concerned about pathogens in raw milk, what sources would concern us most?
Would chicken sources of Campylobacter jejuni concern us?
Perhaps. Chickens hang out near cows and goats and could possibly contaminate raw milk.
Would human sources of Campylobacter jejuni concern us?
Perhaps. People milk cows and goats and could contaminate the milk.
Would bovine sources of Campylobacter jejuni concern us?
Absolutely. Bovine are cattle and cattle give milk. Perhaps not all bovine strains would make people sick, but some do.
Back to the campy graph. What is the source of that one strain that does not die off?
Take a guess.
Remember Beals' words:
"Only three of these strains are from human sources (a fact that Rose omits from her report). All strains do show reduction in pathogens with time. The only line without a steep decline (the steeper the line the faster the pathogens were dying) tracks a nonhuman strain."
What is the source of the strain?
The answer: Bovine.
We should only be concerned about this strain if our topic has something to do with cows. The strain that does not die off completely is a bovine strain. To answer our first question, "Can the strain make it into raw milk?," the answer is "Yes, if a cow is involved."
I asked the Campylobacter jejuni expert if bovine sources of Campylobacter jejuni have made people sick. She responded, "There are many Campylobacter jejuni strains of bovine origin in these databases that have caused human illness." She added an educational tidbit: "Humans have not been shown to be reservoirs (carriers) of Campylobacter jejuni. It is a transient infection, so the ultimately humans are picking up these strains from animals or a contaminated environment (food, water, mud, etc.).
And it may all be irrelevant
This week, food injury attorney Bill Marler posted on his blog part of his own response to a WAPF review of his work (Marler response to WAPF). Part II includes the issue I raise in my white paper: "Does raw milk kill pathogens quickly and thoroughly enough to ensure consumer safety?"
What is fascinating about the review is not that Bill Marler and I agree on something related to raw milk, but the comments left by a couple of scientists. Read the Marler review and read the comments carefully because these experts in microbiology are saying that even though the pathogen levels appear to decline in some of these lab experiments, the milk may still be infective. Campylobacter jejuni, in particular, may appear to decline in lab tests but the apparently dead cells may still be able to infect you. Apparently the cells are actually dormant and come back alive when they enter a better environment like a human gut. One commenter also mentions that the infective dose of Campylobacter jejuni in milk is much lower than it is in other foods. These issues are far beyond this review, but perhaps are issues the WAPF can tackle in its rebuttal.
Finer points
The core of my argument in the white paper is that raw milk kills pathogens except when it doesn't. The rest of the details in the Beals' review are somewhat irrelevant but I'll address them briefly. Read Beals' review for background on these points (PDF).
• 5 log reduction
In my paper, readers get a realistic tool for judging the evidence and that tool is this: Does raw milk kill pathogens thoroughly enough and quickly enough to ensure consumer safety? I describe how to examine the data to determine the answer to that question. The 5 log reduction is a measurement used in food science. Beals criticizes me for mentioning this measurement but what is surprising is that Beals does not define what he means by "kills pathogens."
If my raw milk has 500 cells of E. coli O157:H7 and I take a big swig, would the death of one cell in 500 be enough for Beals to declare that the "raw milk kills pathogens?" If so, would that definition be useful to me as a consumer? As a consumer myself, I do not want to split the proverbial scientific hair over the definition of "pathogen-killing," I want to know if the milk would make me sick. Indeed, that is the framework I provide in my paper that Beals criticizes.
• "Competitive exclusion" versus "competitive inhibition"
Beals is concerned that I use the term "competitive exclusion" instead of his favored term "competitive inhibition." WAPF uses the term "competitive exclusion" in a 2007 press release. Both terms are appropriate. What I cannot imagine is that consumers would care about this terminology issue when print space could be used educating them about whether raw milk kills pathogens enough to guarantee its own safety.
• Miscarriage
I do make reference to Listeria monocytogenes and miscarriage in the context of the question: Does raw milk kill Listeria monocytogenes enough that pregnant women need not be concerned? Personally, I think it is a good question and I certainly do not have the answer. The minimum infective dose of Listeria monocytogenes is about 1,000 cells and we end up with fluish symptoms. The minimum number of cells that need to cross the placenta is apparently one cell. The odds of a cell making it into the placenta are awfully long, but if it makes it, baby is very likely to be born early or die. That too is a fact. I do not know what the odds are of that happening and neither does Beals. I do not write this to "scare" people away from raw milk. I know women who drink raw milk, eat soft cheeses, and sushi in their pregnancies knowing that they are consuming high-risk foods. It is their decision. I feel great when I drink raw milk and I understand the appeal of choosing to drink it in pregnancy.
I discuss none of my own choices in the white paper because they really are irrelevant but I will say here that I did not consume raw milk in my recent pregnancy. With my history of depression in pregnancy, the last thing I needed was to worry about what was in my food. I grew my own food and avoided all high-risk foods whenever possible. I do not expect to be judged harshly for my decision by raw milk consumers because I know that raw milk consumers place a high value on the right to choose. I exercised my own right to choose what was best for my family under my own unique circumstances.
• Raw milk kills pathogens better than pasteurized
An implied criticism of me is that I leave out a study on Listeria monocytogenes that shows that raw milk outperforms pasteurized milk in killing pathogens. Beals mentions the study at the bottom of the second page of his review. Someone sent me the study in August and I considered adding it to the paper at that time but it offers no new evidence for the paper unless I want to extend the review to other pathogens. I will include it in version 2.0. To clarify, I do already discuss the issue of raw versus pasteurized milk in the paper and the evidence is favorable toward raw milk.
Criticizing me for leaving out that particular study does make me wonder where all the citations are that support Beals' argument. From his second page: "A lot more on this subject can be found in the scientific literature, but I will focus on the reports that Rose cites in her paper." Indeed, he does add a paper I missed and criticizes me for excluding it.
The body of literature on this subject appears thin, and many papers are old (the Doyle paper was published in the early 1980′s, and the raw milk was probably nothing like today's WAPF style raw dairies). I implore Beals to share additional research papers on this subject, especially anything that is more current.
I asked Beals by email for his omitted citations but he has not responded.
• "Position Paper"
Beals refers to my paper as a "position paper." I actually take no position in the paper and that may be part of the confusion. Consumers need to make their own decision and I do not actually care one way or another what they choose. If folks are like me and know there is a real long chance of getting a parasite from sushi or a bad bug from raw milk and consume it anyway, more power to them.
• Emotions
Beals argues that my white paper is emotional — I do mention miscarriage and preterm birth as a possible consequence of a Listeria monocytogenes infection. I never considered that speaking about issues of concern to us women of child-bearing age might appear emotional to a 75-year-old man. So be it.
If this current writing appears emotional, it is because I am right now feeling profound and utter disappointment that the analysis of my white paper by a respected physician was so superficial and full of inaccuracies about the scientific literature.
Black and white
Some people need their world to be white and see the rest of the world as black. You will find interesting black-and-white information at the RealMilk.com website. I hold the apparently controversial notion that the world is far more complicated. If you enjoy reading more diverse opinions, you may be interested in the Raw Milk White Papers website. The tag line at the site is:
"I don't tell you about raw milk research, I show you."
I provide data visualizations that help you understand the research on raw milk. I do not expect raw milk to be more than it is – a really great food. I do not expect it never to be contaminated. It can fall victim to this deteriorating and pathogenic world just like everything else can. It is neither "uniquely safe" nor "uniquely dangerous."
As I get a wild hair, I will put some useful information there for consumers. I sell the white papers to support the site, but I include less thorough articles for free.
I should mention that the white paper in question is available there for seven bucks. That seven bucks is the only way I can figure out how to fund my no-nonsense approach. (Come to think of it, however, your money may be better spent buying my book on nutrients and depression since we all may have a mild case after reading these 4,000 words — I leave you with a nice image below.)
If you are a blogger or food writer and would like a review copy, feel free to contact me.


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Galaxy Quest
Decades after the success of the sci-fi series "Galaxy Quest," the show's washed-up stars — Jason Nesmith, Gwen DeMarco and Alexander Dane — are unwittingly recruited by actual aliens to pull off an intergalactic rescue mission.
Decades after the success of the sci-fi series "Galaxy Quest," the show's washed-up stars — Jason Nesmith, Gwen DeMarco and Alexander Dane — are unwittingly recruited by actual aliens to pull off an intergalactic rescue mission.
The BFG is no ordinary bone-crunching giant. He is far too nice and jumbly. It's lucky for Sophie that he is. Had she been carried off in the middle of the night by the Bloodbottler, or any of the other giants—rather than the BFG—she would have soon become breakfast. When Sophie hears that the giants are flush-bunking off to England to swollomp a few nice little chiddlers, she decides she must stop them once and for all. And the BFG is going to help her!
Gladiator is an epic film of love, death and betrayal set in the Roman Empire. General Maximus' success in battle earns the favour of an elderly Emperor at the expense of the Emperor's son. In a fit of jealous rage the son slays his father before turning his anger towards Maximus. Now reduced to a slave, his family dead, Maximus must fight as a Gladiator to gain his freedom, and his revenge.
Aibileen Clark (Viola Davis) is a middle-aged African-American maid who has spent her life raising white children and has recently lost her only son; Minny Jackson (Octavia Spencer) is an African-American maid who has often offended her employers despite her family's struggles with money and her desperate need for jobs; and Eugenia "Skeeter" Phelan (Emma Stone) is a young white woman who has recently moved back home after graduating college to find out her childhood maid has mysteriously disappeared. These three stories intertwine to explain how life in Jackson, Mississippi revolves around "the help"; yet they are always kept at a certain distance because of racial lines.
When 14-year-old Susie Salmon is murdered, she watches from above as her family deals with her tragic death — and as her killer prepares to strike again. Torn between vengeance and healing, Susie's loved ones are forever changed.
Eleven-year-old David is the first android with human feelings. He is adopted by the Swinton family to test his ability to function. Before they are done testing him though David goes off on his own following his wish to be a human. He is on an odyssey to understand the secret to his existence. A science fiction film from Steven Spielberg taken over from Stanley Kubrick.
A young couple living in a Connecticut suburb during the mid-1950s struggle to come to terms with their personal problems while trying to raise their two children. Based on a novel by Richard Yates.
Lester Burnham, a depressed suburban father in a mid-life crisis, decides to turn his hectic life around after developing an infatuation with his daughter's attractive friend.
A lighthouse keeper and his wife living off the coast of Western Australia raise a baby they rescue from an adrift rowboat.
An American lawyer is recruited by the CIA during the Cold War to help rescue a pilot detained in the Soviet Union.
A cab driver finds himself the hostage of an engaging contract killer as he makes his rounds from hit to hit during one night in LA. He must find a way to save both himself and one last victim.
CW Briggs is a veteran insurance investigator, with many successes. Betty Ann Fitzgerald is a new employee in the company he works for, with the task of reorganizing the office. They don't like each other – or at least that's what they think. During a night out with the rest of the office employees, they go to watch Voltan, a magician who secretly hypnotizes both of them.

subset: commoncrawl


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Water ponds are often used as landscaping features or for commercial farming. They must be managed in a suitable manner so as to ensure that the plants and other living organisms do not die as a result of adverse conditions. There are several adverse conditions that prevent the living organisms from thriving. It is important to know these conditions and take the necessary measures to prevent them from affecting your water pond.
One of the necessary features of water ponds is air flow. This is important for the plants and water animals live. If there is no air supply, then they will not get oxygen, which will lead to the death of the organisms. Algae is one of the hindrances of air flow in water ponds. Algae in small volumes is necessary as they provide nutrition for fish. However in great volumes, it will use up oxygen and other necessary nutrients which will deprive the fish and plants of these things which will lead to their eventual death.
It is important that you ensure that there is adequate air flow in your water pond. The best way to do this is to use a method of pond aeration. This will assure you that the pond is always getting enough oxygen. The pond aerators work in such a way that oxygen is uniformly distributed in the pond so that there is enough oxygen all the time. They also support the growth of aerobic bacteria which helps control the growth of algae in the pond. This will help balance the pond conditions so as to provide
conducive conditions of all the living organisms in the pond to thrive.
Common Methods of Pond Aeration
There are different methods you can use to aerate your pond. Some of these are using a mechanical system. This system works by using pressure which pushes the air at the bottom of the pond to the top, towards the surface. This ensures that the pond gets the oxygen rich air from the bottom of the pond. Bottom aerators are used to push the air to the surface and they are best used in ponds which are deeper than six feet.
Another mechanical method causes splashing in the pond. Through this method the water in the pond is constantly being moved around so that there is gas exchange throughout the pond. This is done by surface aerators and they best work in small, shallow ponds. In deeper ponds, the agitation motion may not reach the bottom of the pond and so the pond will not be well aerated.
Pumps are another method of pond aeration. The first type of pump is a submersible pump. This is a bottom aerator type of pump as it pushes water from the bottom to the surface of the pond. It is best used in ponds that have particular water features. They use electrical power. It is best to have a professional install this kind of pump so that it is done correctly.
Factors To Consider When Choosing A Pond Aeration System
To choose the right aeration system for your pond, there are some factors you must put into consideration. The first thing to consider is what type of aerating system is best for your pond. The two aerating systems are a surface aerator and a bottom aerating system. This will depend on the depth of your pond.
The next thing to consider is the number of aerators that you will need. A small pond may need one or two aerators while larger pond may need more aerators. The shape of the pond will also determine the number of aerators that you will get. This is because if it has corners or bends that will not allow the whole pond to be adequately aerated.
Surface aerators are often cheaper than bottom aerators and you may have to take this into consideration. You will also have to consider the additions that come with the aerators. These additions are things like wiring. You also have to consider the voltage of the whole system and the plug type so that you are sure that your electrical structures can support the pond aeration system.


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Gotham Gets a Logo, A Synopsis, Describes Mini-Bruce Wayne as "Hauntingly Intense"
Holy Rusted Metal Batman!
Looking forward to Fox's Batprequel Gotham? An official synopsis has been released. Not looking forward to Fox's Batprequel Gotham? The synopsis has been released anyway. You cannot escape.
The synopsis, available in full at /Film, starts with two paragraphs describing what we already know—it's an origin story of sorts for James Gordon and various Batvillains, including Catwoman and the Penguin. The Riddler, Two-Face, and the Joker are also name-checked, though those roles have yet to be cast.
Then we get into the not-so-boring stuff:
Growing up in Gotham City's surrounding suburbs, James Gordon (Ben McKenzie, "Southland," "The O.C.") romanticized the city as a glamorous and exciting metropolis where his late father once served as a successful district attorney. Now, two weeks into his new job as a Gotham City detective and engaged to his beloved fiancée, Barbara Kean (Erin Richards, Open Grave, "Breaking In"), Gordon is living his dream – even as he hopes to restore the city back to the pure version he remembers it was as a kid.
Good so far. Wanting to restore the city to the way it was under a beloved father. Batparallels.
Brave, honest and ready to prove himself, the newly-minted detective is partnered with the brash, but shrewd police legend Harvey Bullock (Donal Logue, "Sons of Anarchy," "Terriers," "Vikings," "Copper"), as the two stumble upon the city's highest-profile case ever: the murder of local billionaires Thomas and Martha Wayne. At the scene of the crime, Gordon meets the sole survivor: the Waynes' hauntingly intense 12-year-old son, Bruce (David Mazouz, "Touch"), toward whom the young detective feels an inexplicable kinship. Moved by the boy's profound loss, Gordon vows to catch the killer.
Emphasis mine. First mini-Bruce Wayne has "tragic gravitas," now he's "hauntingly intense." Gotham, you keep presenting ickle Bruce Wayne as the emo-est of baby superheroes and it'll make it really hard for me to take you seriously. So by all means, continue. What's next: He's a 12-year-old with "sorrowful dignity"? One of those hairflap-obscuring-the-eye haircuts? Does he attempt to glare his teachers into not assigning homework because "what's the point, it's all meaningless anyway?"
As he navigates the often-underhanded politics of Gotham's criminal justice system, Gordon will confront imposing gang boss Fish Mooney (Jada Pinkett Smith, The Matrix films, "HawthoRNe," Collateral), and many of the characters who will become some of fiction's most renowned, enduring villains, including a teenaged Selina Kyle/the future Catwoman (acting newcomer Camren Bicondova) and Oswald Cobblepot/The Penguin (Robin Lord Taylor, "The Walking Dead," Another Earth).
I have nothing of substance to say here. I just want to have a little excited dance party about Gotham casting Jada Pinkett Smith as a mob boss named Fish Mooney.
Although the crime drama will follow Gordon's turbulent and singular rise through the Gotham City police department, led by Police Captain Sarah Essen (Zabryna Guevara, "Burn Notice"), it also will focus on the unlikely friendship Gordon forms with the young heir to the Wayne fortune, who is being raised by his unflappable butler, Alfred (Sean Pertwee, "Camelot," "Elementary"). It is a friendship that will last them all of their lives, playing a crucial role in helping the young boy eventually become the crusader he's destined to be.
A crusader who will only get more hauntingly intense and tragic gravitas-y as the decades go on.
(via: /Film)
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Hertfordshire Constabulary were called to reports of a large disturbance at The Ox pub in Bridlington Road at around 11.20pm on Friday.
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Vita's Biggest Problem: Price Or Lack Of Available AAA Software?
The PlayStation Vita isn't selling as well as expected and speculation is widespread: Why is Sony's new portable struggling at retail?
Well, it depends on your definition of "struggling," first of all. Sony has said they're not too far behind internal expectations for the time being, and the handheld did enjoy a solid Black Friday showing. But no matter how you slice it, the system could definitely be faring better.
For the most part, there are three common explanations: 1. Price, 2. Lack of compelling AAA software, and 3. The rapid expansion and proliferation of mobile gaming. The latter is a complex topic and extends beyond the realm of hardcore gamers, so we're going to stick with the first two possible explanations. Remember, this is a unit specifically designed for the avid gamer. So which is the culprit? Do you see the price as being formidable for too many consumers? Is the product simply not worth what it costs? Or is it the software? Some will say the system had a great launch in terms of solid titles, and that's a legitimate argument.
But since then, not much has arrived to help prove to gamers that the Vita is something they need to have. For instance, the two titles this holiday season that were supposed to boost hardware sales were Assassin's Creed III: Liberation and Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified. One was abysmal and the other was good, but not great. Still, didn't they help Vita sales...? They did to some extent, right? So maybe it has more to do with secret explanation number three: The lack of promotion and heavy marketing. But wait...wasn't I constantly seeing ads for the Black Ops Declassified Vita bundle during November? I think I was.
What's your take on the issue?
Tags: vita, playstation vita, vita games, vita titles, sony
12/5/2012 9:32:10 PM Ben Dutka
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Legacy Comment System (93 posts)
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:34:07 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:31:48 AM
I have a 4 gig chip it came with and bought an 8 gig chip, with no music or movies they are both full. 8 gigs isn't much and is very expensive.
Its definitely not a cheap device either. A tablet costs less, often has more memory and can overall do way more. Ofcourse it won't have the AAA titles the vita has but most people don't see it that way.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 9:54:58 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:23:56 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:10:14 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 3:01:06 PM
I think it really shows how out of touch Sony is when they charge $60 for 16GB. I saw USB that size for $7. I paid $85 for a 2TB external a year ago on BF. I don't care if it REALLY even did cost that much to make. Who cares if people won't buy it. It's very ill conceived.
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 10:24:43 PM
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:09:03 PM
You've gotta figure, a lot of people would want a 32GB card, for movies, games, music, and that stuff takes up a lot of room, so 32GB is really the only way to go if you plan to use your Vita for more then just 1 or 2 games, and I really cant blame them for not wanting to commit another $100 just for a 32GB card. Ofcourse, this is only part of the problem that's holding the Vita back, lack of software is another problem, no true BC is another, heck you could even blame some of it on competition with the 3DS/tablets/smartphones.
Sony needs to do something to make the Vita attractive to consumers, and I think with the current software we have for it right now, a price drop is really the only route they have to take.
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:28:08 PM
I completely agree that it's a software issue. There are too many games even in the PSP era, where the portable versions are half the qualities of the PS3 counterpart. Uncharted was an exception, but still can't compare with the PS3 version. I preordered my Vita and i have yet to find another game to play on it.
Most frustrating thing about the memory cards is that there 32gb microSD are a third of that price. I can't justify to purchase this at all. I felt like a sucker just buying the 16gb.
You make a good point with BC. One reason i think Nintendo's handhelds are always successful is because of BC. There is a limited hardcore/casual gamers out there. To sell them the new gen system, you will have to expect them to upgrade and abandon their old system. Why would anyone buy your Vita if you lack games. I certainly wouldn't want to repurchase the PSP library.
Sony gave you all the options to play PSP games as DL. but when you do the math, you will have to buy the game again and then buy another memory card for the premium price. It's not worth playing the old games anymore.
(Thumbs up for the PS+ game collections though.)
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:11:04 PM
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:31:42 PM
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:44:07 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:01:38 AM
Cheers :)
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:10:29 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:43:11 AM
Norrin Radd
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 10:57:54 PM
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:43:50 PM
If you're looking for a 16GB Vita memory card for almost $15 cheaper than the regular price, I just posted a better deal on it, for only $45.
Just go into the forum, click on the "Gaming Discussion" link, then click on the last page of the "Good deals for gamers" thread.
It's posted at the bottom of the page.
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 @ 11:58:50 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:01:11 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:26:33 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:03:53 AM
Plus on vita helps, but in reality there aren't that many of any particular genre available for the system. The truth is most people have a preference and if there's only a couple of games in their favorite genre they won't see a need to buy the system.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 7:21:51 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:16:22 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:04:50 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:43:31 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:52:49 AM
The problem is *not* the price. People are used to pay a lot for small gadgets today - more so than before.
The problem is that people don't want to pay that much for *this* gadget. And why is that? Because they don't want it enough. That's the problem! When people first want something, it's crazy what they are willing to pay in order to get it. So it's not the price.
It would of course help with a lot more titles, it always would, but it's not that easy. If people believed in the product, if they felt they needed it, they would have bought it. But they don't. And that takes us to your point number three, quoted above.
Back in the days of the PSP, I went and got me one. Of course I did - it was such a cool little thing - you could even surf the web with it! At cafes with free wi-fi I could read my mail and check my employers message board! I could play music and watch videos on it! And I could play games on it. Not Snakes or Tetris on a stamp sized mobile screen, but real 3D computer games in full colour and animation. And the prices of those games were fair too - after all, all I had to compare them with were console and PC games.
It was always with me on travels. There was no real alternatives for me since that Nintendo thing looked way too childish, so there you go: It was the PSP or nothing. *Nothing*.
Today it's a *completely* different reality. And it is this reality that bites Vita in the arse. Vita is the wrong product at the wrong time. Not even Sony can create a market that is no longer there.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/6/2012 2:57:53 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 7:51:23 AM
Unfortunately, today every kid wants an ipad / iphone because it's "cool".
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:23:11 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:01:48 AM
But the way I see it is that the 3DS has a quite different target audience, and that makes all the difference. The 3DS reach out to a younger market than the Vita. The part of the market who don't own a smart-phone or want a tablet for Christmas, or are into "iOs", "Android" or what's hot'n'not right now.
Let me ask you this; If you had a small kid you wanted to buy a handheld gaming device to, and you put all brand preferences aside, what would you buy: A 3DS or a Vita?
But one thing I'd like to state at the end here: This is not a question about being "pro" or "con" the Vita. This is an ever returning problem with discussing anything Sony on this site: It becomes a question of being "with or against Sony". Having a "second agenda" or be a "hater" or "troll". This is not about that at all.
You seem to want me to write positive things about the Vita. Well, sure, I can do that, but it would be irrelevant!
The topic here is that Vita struggle, and struggle hard. WHY? And that is what I respond to.
It's not cause of the hardware, cause that looks to be absolutely splendid. It's not cause of the capabilities as a gaming machine, cause that is likewise top notch. The design is typical Sony, ergo excellent. It looks darn good. It's not even the price, as I stated. The price is, objectively speaking, right. So there you go, some positive words about the Vita from me.
But what can I say... I am merely responding to the question. And the problems of the Vita is obviously not due to its strengths, ergo taking about those would be irrelevant.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/6/2012 11:20:05 AM
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:17:29 AM
We all know the mobile expansion has hurt the Vita. The only point I made is that because it's a unit designed specifically for the hardcore gamer, it would automatically appeal to the hardcore more than any smartphone or tablet. If you give any avid gamer a choice between a Vita and basically any other handheld device that isn't dedicated to gaming, they're not going to take the silly smartphone. Not ever.
The only reason it's a problem is just because people don't want to carry two or three different units around. Because the Vita only does gaming, it's a problem. I didn't say otherwise; I was merely clarifying.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:45:46 AM
Oh, and to clarify: I OWN and LOVE my Vita!
Last edited by Dukemz_UK on 12/6/2012 11:46:30 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:13:53 PM
In other words, if they halved the price and doubled the amount of AAA titles, I believe that would have lead to just a highly temporary boost in sales because the audience - including the hardcore gamers - is not on the market for this kind of product at this day and age. That kinda renders the two other alternatives dead, if you catch my drift.
Had it been so easy as to cut the price or boost the triple A's or pump a lot more into marketing, well then this would have merely been a temporary headache for Sony. But I highly doubt it's enough.
Sadly, and tragically for Sony, but I suspect we will get the answer to all these questions as soon as within the next couple of years. I doubt there will be titles of any significance released for the Vita two years from now, and the platform for all practical purposes will be dead soon after.
Such is my sad predictions, and this is *not* something I say out of hate, but pure observations.
Only time will tell if I am right, and you may quote me on this come 2015/16 - I will happily stand corrected. :)
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/6/2012 12:49:38 PM
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:12:58 PM
The Vita is for gamers, not mobile gamers. And there's a huge distinction. I know it seems odd because the Vita IS portable, but Sony is going after a very different audience. That audience doesn't give two sh*** about what smartphone or mobile gaming does in the next few years, because they're relatively convinced it won't measure up to what the Vita can do. And gamers only care about games (and price). Not what ELSE a device can do.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:26:36 PM
Fair enough, I will leave it at that.
As far as my son is concerned I would not buy him a 3DS over a Vita. My son is 5 this month and my wife and I have already decided that come Christmas 2013 he will receive a Vita. We'll have a great time playing the LEGO games, PSASBR, Sonic Racing, Rayman Origins and LBP via adhoc COOP. My son has a Leap Pad 2 for any educational games.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:39:41 PM
I am a gamer. More than that, I am a gamer that has owned and loved a portable gaming machine, the PSP.
Now, the million dollar question is: Why am I and other gamers with me not interested in the Vita? Just, why? What's happened?
And to find *that* answer, we must look elsewhere than the price. The price could theoretically have held me back from actually buying it, but not from *wanting* it. That is a significant difference, and *that* is the problem here: Most gamers don't CARE about the Vita.
Why do so many of us not care any more, when we used to care for a similar product years ago? What has changed in this picture?
That's where I am getting at.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/6/2012 2:43:56 PM
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 3:45:45 PM
Friday, December 07, 2012 @ 2:51:22 AM
The lack of software can't be the *only* explanation. It's just one theory. And according to that theory all gamers should then own all major gaming platforms, and we know that is not true.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/7/2012 3:13:17 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:38:28 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:49:03 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 4:07:51 AM
the biggest problem with the vita, is exactly the biggest problem with the wiiu.
it feels outdated!
there are so many things phones, the 3DS, tablets can do, hell even the f*cking PSP, that the vita cant!
whole point of a new product is to support old features, and new ones.
not support only new features, and useful cool things old devices had are thrown out the window!
tablets and the PSP for instance could be connected to the TV to play games on that, a feature i used ALLOT with my PSP GO!
another feature i really miss the pause game feature so you could pause the game, go play something else, than return where you left off.
the vita feels really outdated, it cant do allot of stuff the competition can, and it really does not have a LOOK AT ME feature!
the 3DS has its no glasses 3D, and iconic nintendo franchises.
the ipad has its infinite apps and raw power, did you know the ipad 4 actually scores HIGHER benchmarks than the vita?
the ipad 4 is MORE powerful than a dedicated gaming device, how pathetic!
what does the vita have to suck customers in?
dual sticks?
the 3DS has the gamepad PRO for that, and most android phones and tablets have applications and controllers for that.
so no.
rear touch pad?
really, is that going to get you to go splash 300+ bucks on something?
i dont think so!
there really is not a single thing that will make people go out and buy a vita, its heavily relying on its software and that is really lacking ATM so it has nothing!
as ive always said with the ps4, people will pay a premium for a product if they feel its worth it.
so no the price is not the problem, the software is not the problem, the vita would still be selling well despite those handicaps, if it actually had something else, something it could wave in front of the customers face and say no one else offers this!
as ive always said the vita would not be in the position it is if it did not have these pain in the a$$ annoyances.
you cant hook it up to the TV, you cant run multiple games, you cant do 99% of things other competitor devices can.
put it this way, why would you pay 300 dollars on x music player that can decode only MP4, when you could spend same money on x music player which can decode much more?
thats the problem with the vita, it does not offer half the amount of abilities its competitors do.
in this market you either A offer EVERYTHING, or B offer only a few things but do them so well the limitations dont matter.
thats vitas problem, it does neither.
it does not offer everything, and it does not do anything so well its lack of features dont matter.
everything about it is meh.
the high price point and lack of software would not matter if it did something unique, if it had a card to wave around and say no one can offer this.
but it doesent, and that is why its selling so poorly!
same goes for the wiiu, its just like the vita its heavily relying on its software to sell it.
and im not so sure thats enough to carry it and make it a worthwhile system to support for 5+ years.
another problem you have to think of is time.
chances are 99% of the people who would be interested in a vita already own a ps3, and a sort of smartphone.
so that brings 2 problems, 1 why buy a vita when your smartphone does so much more and you already have it!
2 would you have enough time to use the device?
thats another problem allot of people ignore.
chances are 99% of people would only use the vita outdoors, if your at home you would be using your ps3.
are you outdoors long enough that you would use the vita enough to warrant a purchase?
and why spend money on said purchase when your phone already does everything the vita does and more?
if you could connect the vita to your TV, i could see allot more people using it at home but you cant.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 9:49:27 AM
The OLED screen is amazing and I shouldn't have to say anything about this unbelievable screen.
It has Always-On technology which is fantastic and allows me to play a game and then press the Playstation button to pause the game, turn the screen off and then come back later and start right back up where I left off. This was a god send for me while I was playing P3P, Uncharted and Gravity Rush. You know what, it's been a god send for every Vita, PSP and PS1 game I have played. Right now, actually from last night I am in the middle of fighting a boss in Ragnarok Odyssey which I cannot fight right now so it's paused and waiting for me to continue later on today.
Cross Play and Cross Save which I know Nintendo is now getting into but is still a great feature. I enjoy PSASBR more on my Vita than on my PS3.
PSP and PS1 compatibility! This is huge as it opens gamers up to an already huge library of games! You want Monster Hunter, well you have it, just download Monster Hunter Freedom Unite. Next time I play Final Fantasy VII will be on my Vita. What a great feature this is that no other handheld platform has!
Remote Play when and if it is more widely implemented. God of War II is so much fun on my Vita! When I get to ICO and SotC I will play it on my Vita as well. I wish they would do more with Remote Play so I guess you could say so far Sony has failed with Remote Play.
Graphics on this handheld are great if not the best for a handheld. It's not fair to compare the Vita to the Ipad since Apple releases a new version every year. So of course the Ipad going to be better. For $729.99 the Apple Ipad 32GB is ridiculously over priced so it better have more power under the hood. A Vita 32GB is only $350. Am I missing something here! It's over half the price!!! Also, Sony is selling the Vita at a loss and trying to make up some of those losses with memory card sales.
Playing the Vita on the big screen is a bummer omition. But it is a handheld and is supposed to be played on the small screen on the go. So you really cannot knock Sony for removing that feature. For the tech they offer they had to omit something to lower costs.
This is a dedicated gaming machine similar to the X360, Wii and PS3. This is not an android device. That is another huge system seller for me. I can get the franchises I love and play them on the go.
Sony is just the victim of a lot of hate mongering as well. Sony has done a lot of good and creative things yet those hate mongers never mention any of it. But people like you only focus on the bad and don't always get it right. You might want to try focusing on the positive instead of focusing on the negative.
Last edited by CrusaderForever on 12/6/2012 9:54:47 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:40:20 PM
Friday, December 07, 2012 @ 10:52:54 AM
two sticks in the right place, christ dude if you went into a marketing meeting with that crap you would be laughed out the door!
plus mobile phones now have stands out there that let you plug them into your DS3 controller and use that to control your games, so no the vita is not the only portable device with dual sticks in the right spot.
as for the ps1 and PSP emulation, you do realise theres PSX and PSP emulators out there for pretty much every android phone right?
exactly the reason why i ended up selling my go, i was using it exclusively to play ps1 games but my S3 does that just fine so i sold it.
exactly my point, EVERYTHING the vita does other devices do.
and other devices do many things the vita cant.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 8:57:13 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:36:21 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:52:43 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:52:54 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:24:43 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 3:19:50 PM
Question, I have never owned the PSP, what is the battery life for it?
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 4:23:22 PM
The battery for my psp is around 5-6 hours, and pro-tip: its AWESOME for emulators! :D
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 7:27:00 AM
Long story short a price drop. The 3ds didn't take off until Nintendo dropped he price. When a potential handheld buyer goes to a store 9 times out of 10 a person is gonna get the 3ds, its cheaper and has imo better games.
Last edited by Wrote on 12/6/2012 7:33:31 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 8:52:36 AM
I believe it's the price, maybe not the $250 price tag but the price of the memory cards. It's not mobile gaming because all you have to do is take one look at the 3DS sales figures which are amazing!
Cut the price of the memory cards in half and get a huge mainstream game on the Vita and it will take off. Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy or Resident Evil would do it. Here's the catch, these AAA games have to, HAVE TO be AAA quality games. I am thoroughly enjoying ACIIIL and think it's an impressive game on a handheld. So I think they did a great job with ACIIIL. There are a lot of critics that don't think they did a great job on ACIIIL. CoD, no, they failed miserably. If they would have given it to a proven studio and gave them another 6 months and actually called it BOII Declassified with Zombies the Vita would have exploded. Killzone Mercenary could be that killer game, but it is exclusive. They need a game that X360, Nintendo and Playstation gamers are hooked on. A multiplatform juggernaut that cannot be bought anywhere else. P4G is great but it also has been on a prior console.
I know it's a marathon not a sprint. But they need to take Vita games more seriously.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 9:00:11 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 9:53:50 AM
People don't say anything about the 3DS and their memory cards because they are cheaper and Nintendo already did a price cut. The 3DS isn't even worth $169.99. They really skimped on a lot of tech as they did with the WiiU. They had a chance to right the ship with the XL and failed with that as well. The big screen is awesome but why not incorporate the Circle Pad Pro into the 3DS XL and have twin sticks in non-awkward location!!!?
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:34:50 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 3:27:40 PM
I know, the 3DS XL was such an exciting idea. I was like could Nintendo actually do it right this time. Unfortunately no. I am not a Nintendo hater, I just don't agree with the direction they have taken.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 9:41:54 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:09:17 AM
Last edited by CrusaderForever on 12/6/2012 10:09:39 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:18:06 AM
Personally I just rather not do all of that just to continue to play. I also don't like deleting the free games I get from Plus either. Having a tough time doing that on my PS3 itself b/c I pretty much snag everything possible. Given what you said I guess it just comes down to price for me then. I'm weary of dropping $250 on a handheld when I know a new Xbox or PS4 will be releasing soon
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:53:20 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:16:56 AM
Speaking for the majority, I think that it's a combination of all 3 of the reasons Ben listed. Specifically, I don't think there is a market for this type of product as big as Sony would like to think. It's marketed as "console-quality games on the go" but yet it's biggest holiday titles (AC Liberation and CoD Blops) are not even as good (and in CoD case, no where near as good) as their console counter parts. I think people are content paying LESS for a Xbox 360 or PS3 system than they are shelling out more for a portable system. I think Sony has done an awful job at marketing the Vita and estimating how the market would react to such a powerful piece of hardware.
Casual gamers aren't going to care much about what's under the hood of a Vita if the price was about the same for 360 and PS3 bundles this past Black Friday.
Add in the fact taht most people that play portable games just do it on their phones and you have a system that just might not do as well as expected.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:46:14 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:29:56 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 10:36:17 AM
There's no time when I would use a Vita. I wouldn't pull it out while waiting to be seated. I wouldn't pull it out in any scenario that I'd pull out my iPhone instead. Even on a plane I'd rather watch a movie on an iPad or play one of those silly games.
I wouldn't use a vita at home when I've got a PS3 and a TV.
There's just no point to the vita. In order for the vita to have been successful it would have needed to do something unique that you couldn't do anywhere else. Actually it would have needed to do everything that every other gadget can do plus do something that only it can do.
It would have been a good idea to treat it like apple treats their products too, like an accessory that people want to carry, even if they don't know why.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:05:45 AM
Now if you are saying you just don't like handhelds then I can respect that. But saying there is no reason to buy a Vita doesn't make any sense.
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:19:09 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:22:22 PM
Why would I want to buy an $800 accessory? That is one expensive accessory, even with all the things it can do. I don't have that kind of money. That's why I have a Vita, even with a game price point of $30-$50.
The Vita is my accesory.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:38:58 PM
For all those games you listed for Vita, there is a BETTER one on PS3. So, sitting at home, would we prefer to stare down at the Vita and play games or sit in front of the PS3+HDTV and play a comparable game? Remember, most people don't have the money to buy every game out there and have to make choices. So, AC3 or AC liberation? R3 or R:BS? Plus, almost all of those games has lower scores than their console counterparts.
MonkeyScarf is making a fair point. The average person will not see a need for a Vita. And we all know Sony (and everyone else) want's the casual gamer. That market has to be ceded to mobile gaming in my opinion. Now, if Sony wanted in with them, they should have made a cell phone that could do what the vita does. But, I think that is asking way to much. Can't be all things to all people. Vita is a fine piece of hardware. Like I said below, Sony needs to figure out who they want their market to be and then act accordingly.
Last edited by JoebooSauce on 12/6/2012 2:42:22 PM
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 3:48:02 PM
At the same time, it's a portable device. It's not supposed to compete with the PS3 for your play time; one is portable and one isn't. Of course few are going to opt to play the Vita when they've got the PS3 sitting there; they're at HOME. The Vita is for top-quality on-the-go gaming, a level that any other mobile gaming device cannot aspire to.
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:56:49 PM
I could see, maybe if I had a long commute to work (which I do) but I didn't have to drive myself (which is not the case). Then I could almost see a need for a hard core gaming device. But in that scenario, you're back to what everyone else said about there being no software to support it.
There's just no point to it. It's too big to accidentally take it everywhere. So you'll have to purposely make the decission to bring it with you, when you leave the house. It doesn't do anything cool other than play games, that every other portable device does better. It's not unique.
They really should have given it the ability to make calls, exclusively through a speaker phone or blue tooth. Plus they should have put a forward facing camera on it and made video calling the standard.
I have the first PSP and the PSP Go. Although I never used the PSP Go for anything. (I did take it out of the box though.) I used to use the psp to play games and watch movies on airplanes, but now there are better solutions for that. I haven't used an exclusively portable gaming device since sometime before 2008. I would have loved to buy a Vita, but since I never used the GO, I just couldn't see what I'd do with a Vita. There's just no point to them anymore.
Friday, December 07, 2012 @ 3:18:42 AM
Monkeysnarf describes how he thinks as a consumer and a gamer. And this is how the vast majority of gamers think of the Vita today. There's just no room for it - not anymore.
And *that* is the core problem for Sony. Not the price, not the software.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/7/2012 8:22:42 AM
Friday, December 07, 2012 @ 4:31:23 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 11:16:12 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 12:48:55 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:09:15 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:24:25 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:29:11 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:35:23 PM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 1:37:30 PM
Friday, December 07, 2012 @ 4:36:04 AM
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 2:28:38 PM
I think the price would be fine if there were MUST HAVE games. I like uncharted but the game did not have that grab factor that #2 had. COD and AC? Need I say more?
Lower price if your games aren't able to draw people in. At that point, needs to be evaluated whether or not you should even produce such a product. Don't get me wrong, I like the Vita, but its not strong enough to get strong sales that Sony wants. And I won't get into overpriced memory cards while Sony wants to encourage digital games. How the hell did they come up with that failed strategy??? The average person does not want to cart around cartridges...
Thursday, December 06, 2012 @ 6:15:44 PM
Monday, December 10, 2012 @ 1:55:04 PM
More AAA titles that offer cross play functionality with PS3 counterparts will definitely sell more units, as well as additional good third party games
Monday, December 10, 2012 @ 7:55:21 PM
-Lack of UMD drive.
-No haptic feedback vibration.
-Way too f*n expensive proprietary memory cards.
-No damages resistant screen.
-No IrDA.
-No HDMI-out.
-Stupid CMA that won't let you transfer shit unless you're connected to Sony servers all the time.
Last edited by Josuemental on 12/10/2012 8:36:25 PM
Monday, December 10, 2012 @ 9:11:44 PM
I say there is nothing wrong with a few ports. Until the AAA titles start rolling in.
Ninja Gaiden 2 sigma would be just what the doctor ordered.:)
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text:
BROCKTON (AP)- Brockton Police Chief Emanuel Gomes says cityofficers followed department rules during a car chase that ended in a fatalaccident.
Gomes told The Enterprise of Brockton that officers followed the department's pursuit policy while chasing28-year-old Antwoin Moore on Oct. 12. Moore caused a multicar accident duringthe chase that killed 49-year-old Mary Anne Kotsiopoulos of Brockton.
A Plymouth County grand jury has indicted Moore on second-degree murder andother charges.
Gomes ordered an internal review of the chase and says it concluded officersfollowed policy step by step.
Police say Moore fled during a motor vehicle stop, striking a police cruiserand nearly hitting an officer. Police say they had stopped Moore as part of adrug investigation.
State police are investigating the crash.
RELATED:Brockton man facing murder charge in fatal Oct. crash
© 2018 Cox Media Group.


text:
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text:
The Iota Sigma chapter of Alpha Phi was only installed last spring, but after a successful first formal recruitment in our brand new chapter house, it is obvious that we have a great year (and many more!) to come at Carnegie Mellon. With elections just around the corner and our first Red Dress Gala quickly approaching, I cannot wait to see what wonderful things my sisters and I will accomplish in the coming year.
Just three days after a very exciting bid night, Iota Sigma was lucky enough to have a very special guest visit our new house – Alpha Phi International President Linda Boland (Gamma Kappa-CSU/Long Beach)! Along with Linda came other members of the Alpha Phi Executive Office to join our chapter in a ribbon cutting ceremony to officially celebrate the opening of our brand new chapter house on the Greek Quad. Just one semester after being installed we proudly have a home to call our own, in one of the largest Greek facilities available on our campus, right in the middle of all the exciting things happening at Carnegie Mellon. The ceremony included a gift from Alpha Phi Foundation—a photo of the first Alpha Phi chapter house at Syracuse University—a great reminder of just how proud we should be of our new home and what it represents for Alpha Phi. After the ceremony we had a nice luncheon and I gave tours of the newly renovated home to members of other Greek organizations on campus, parents and a group of Alpha Phi sisters from Duquesne University. It was a very memorable day and we loved being able to show off our beautiful new space to everyone in attendance!
I am also lucky enough to be one of the 29 women living in our house for this year. As the first ever residents of the new facility, it has been an exciting experience for us to learn just what "living in" will be like. It's great to be able to walk down the stairs for meetings, socials and sisterhood events, and living in the house has made being a member of Alpha Phi even easier. I also serve on the executive council as the Director of Finance so it's convenient to be able to collaborate with other executive members just by walking down the hall or down a flight of stairs. With elections on the way, I am so excited that our new board will be able to live together in the house next year. Living in the house has helped me become closer to so many of my sisters. I already have so many great memories of staying up late, or lounging in bed on the weekends, just hanging out and catching up in the midst of all of our hectic schedules. Having the Alpha Phi house has been a great experience for our chapter so far and I cannot wait for more women to experience how great it is!
Catherine Spence is a collegiate member at Carnegie Mellon (Iota Sigma).


text:
Imagine turning your 70's style bathroom into the beautiful and modern spa like room you just saw in a magazine. Some people tend to take their bathrooms for granted, but we all know that this is one of the most important places in your home. Once you've realized that your special sanctuary requires some home improvement, you might think twice before making any decisions, because let's face it, most likely the solution isn't cheap.
When you begin to notice that your bathroom tiles and ceramics are chipped, peeled and have lost their luster, you also realize that there are cracks, holes, and wear and tear due to natural exposure on your bathtub or shower. Your bathroom can slowly turn into a nightmare. This is where Melga Sales Corp. comes in!
Our company has been in the business of re-glazing bathtubs, showers, tiles and other ceramic surfaces for over 25 years. We are leading professionals in Bathroom Remodeling, Bathtub Reglazing and Shower Installations throughout New York. If you are looking to renovate your bathtub, or even your entire bathroom, Melga Sales Corp. offers you a practical alternative to help grant your wish for a better bathroom in less than one day! Here are three reasons why to choose Melga Sales Corp. for your renovation project:
- Reglazing is more cost-efficient.You can actually save thousands of dollars if you choose to re-glaze instead of replace because you do not have to pay for demolition and reconstruction costs.
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- Reglazing is much more convenient and fuss-free. Re-glazing is a mess and dirt-free process. Our well-trained professionals can be trusted to do a quick and clean job in covering and protecting all surfaces to make your bathroom look good as new in no time.
The reglazing process is started by preparing the tub and removing any surface impurities. Then, chips and cracks are filled and the tub is then sprayed with primer. The surface is inspected to assure a quality finish and three coats of synthetic porcelain finish are the sprayed onto the tub to give it a glossy durable surface that is easily maintained. The bathtub will dry in four to six hours and is then ready for use. We even give you the option to decide on a new color for tiles and fixtures. It is easily as good as having a new bathroom without the long wait and sky-high labor fees. Imagine what you could do with the thousands of dollars you will save!
In today's economic climate, you can be assured of huge savings when you re-glaze instead of replace. By leaving your re-glazing needs to Melga Sales Corp. you can give your bathroom a new look without sacrificing quality.


text:
Not much remains of the Twin Oak race horse farms owned by Marvin and Alan Gaines on Old Lexington Pike in Walton. The house the farm manager called home is still there and one small building in the old pasture, but nothing more.
But on a cold winter's night in 1957 the farm was abuzz with the impending birth of a colt. Earnest Price, farm manager, and his teenaged grandson Alvin "Shorty" Price, were anxiously awaiting the moment when they could assist the mare in the foaling of her colt.
The pair trudged across snow covered ground between the small building and the nearby barn through the night until Bally Ache was born. The colt, sired by the Irish import Ballydam out of Celestial Blue, was special from the night of his birth.
Unsuspecting passers-by driving north or south on the old highway watched as the young colt grazed in the white fenced-in pasture, never too far from his mother's watchful eyes. On visits to Walton other grandchildren of Earnest Price ventured near the fence to watch the bay stallion dash from one end of the pasture to the other.
No one was aware the horse's great-great-grandfather was arguably one of the greatest race horses in history, Man O War, winner of 20 races in 21 outings, including the Preakness and the Belmont in 1920.
A local newspaper featured a photograph of Alan Gaines and his wife Anna Pearl with the colt soon after his birth. A sign along the old two-lane highway proudly proclaimed the name of the farm and "home of Bally Ache."
As a yearling the horse, described as a blocky short backed colt with a short, choppy stride, was sold as part of a two horse transaction for $5,000 to Leonard Fruchtman, a steel company executive from Toledo who had a small string of horses racing under his Edgehill Farm colors.
Trained by Homer "Jimmy" Pitt, as a two-year-old, Bally Ache had an outstanding year of racing. Of his 16 starts, he won five stakes races, set a new track record at Jamaica Racetrack for five furlongs, and finished out of the money just once. He ended the year ranked second in earnings.
In her book "American Classic Pedigrees (1914-2002)," author Avalyn Hunter wrote that Bally Ache was "a crowd favorite" who "won hearts by his sheer determination." The horse knew only one way to race – run as fast as he could for as long as he could.
At age three, Bally Ache was even more impressive, winning the Flamingo Stakes and Florida Derby, which made him eligible for the Kentucky Derby. In the Run for the Roses, Venetian Way, already beaten four times by Bally Ache, won the race.
Despite Bally Ache's second place finish, the Turfland racing syndicate bought the colt for what Sports Illustrated magazine described as the "staggering price of $1,250,000."
Bally Ache promptly went on to win the 84th running of the Preakness Stakes by four lengths.
Entered in the Belmont, he came up lame on the eve of the race and had to be withdrawn. After returning to racing, in his fourth outing he suffered a career ending ankle injury. Scheduled to stand at stud for his owners, Bally Ache developed an intestinal ailment that led to his death on Oct. 28, 1960. He was buried at Bosque Bonita Farm in Versailles.
Marv Price is the grandson of farm manager Earnest Price.


text:
To find out the serial number of your version of Dragon Naturally Speaking once it's installed:
Option 1
- Open the Dragon NaturallySpeaking software.
- Click "Help" on the Dragon menu bar and click "About NaturallySpeaking…"
- The window that opens will contain details of Dragon NaturallySpeaking including your serial number.
Option 2
(if Dragon NaturallySpeaking will not load)
- Navigate to the folder where Dragon is installed which is usually one of the following:
- C:\Program Files\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking11
- C:\Program Files (x86)\Nuance\NaturallySpeaking11
(Folder name will vary based on your version.)
- Open the Ereg folder.
- Open the ereg.ini file (it is a text file).
- Look for a line beginning with Ser_Num=
The serial number will be written after it.
25 Responses to Find out your Dragon NaturallySpeaking serial number
Dennis Raphael January 30, 2013 at 20:37
Thank you! A lifesaver as my son discarded the sleeve with the number.
i tried finding this location a bunch of different ways, but can't find it.
i need the serial # for when it asks me at the begining before i install it, so this might be a reason.
any help?
Deanna September 15, 2013 at 20:07
Nothing comes up when i copy and past the folder to find my serial number I have it installed and used it already it says i can use it two more times before I have to put in the serial number any suggestions
Thanks, putting it on a second computer that can 'hear' me better. I do love techies. 🙂
Thanks for that.
I tried to contact nuance, but no response. Just as well there are sites like this.
James monfregola March 11, 2014 at 21:15
Thanks it worked !
This saved me from 2 -3 hours of frustration calling Dragon Shitupport.
Renata Petrson March 23, 2014 at 13:19
Hello, Nice to be here. I just wanted to encourage you more in your work and wish you good writing all the time.
I used to work at a relative's computer store for a while, but didn't know too much about computers but now I feel a slight urge in wanting to know more about new technology – Computer products, Mobile phones, Tablets, etc.
Brian May 2, 2014 at 05:04
Worked for me with version 12 too. Got a new computer and lost the serial number. Life saver!
Thank you so much for this! I had almost given up and purchased a new copy.
Bonnie January 3, 2015 at 03:47
My old computer crashed. I am trying to install it into my new computer, but my daughter threw away the protective sleeve. I have the box and instructions, but no serial number. Is there anything I can do?
Bonnie January 5, 2015 at 02:13
My old computer crashed. I have the CD, box and directions. I kept the CD in a CD wallet and misplaced the sleeve. How can I load the software on my new computer?
Nila Spitzack Hetteen April 12, 2016 at 00:41
You are a life saver about where to find the serial number. God bless!
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