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Nvidia Claims PS4 Is Only as Good as a "Low-End" PC
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Pros of Consoles:
If those pros get taken away from being part of the console arena then steam boxes will start to look a lot more attractive. I am hopeful that pcs will be the future but I am also somewhat concerned. For example, if Sony does not exist, would games like the inFamous series ever be made? It seems like this fragmented platform market may generate a larger volumn of games than would otherwise exist. I don't know if that's valid but it's something to consider. Also, the existence of consoles establishes a market standard for the processing power a game should demand. This prevents the average joe from being unable to play certain games because one component of their pc is off.
So here's hoping the consoles stick around if they're that beneficial to our market with large companies so invested in having games for their own hardware.
Disclaimer: I prefer pc gaming by far for most single player game. But it also costs a lot more money to make a computer and is not for everyone. I also happen to have a ps3 and 360 and enjoy them for other reasons. The ps3 is my main entertainment system (netflix, huluplus, preferred gaming machine) and the 360 is my main party system (Kinect, Halo, etc). Just because I have a powerhouse of a computer (i7 quad, 32GBs RAM, decent video card and such that I can bridge multiple ones when necessary) doesn't mean I don't have a need for consoles. The two are not mutually exclusive unless you're on a budget which most people are. But a lot of people have a computer and a console. You should think of computers as the Ferrari and consoles as a more general sports car meant to appeal to most people. Demanding to know why everyone doesn't own a powerful computer is a little like demanding to know why some people don't have jobs and potentially related.
Wow, talk about sour grapes.
How "unprofessional" to publically bash your competitors and former customers. Burning bridges like this is never a good idea. So you lost the bid, better luck next time.
Now they pissed off both MS and Sony. LOL.
I can see your points, but I have problems with some of them. You're $300 console might afford you hours of playing Skyrim, but so does my PC, and it looks better and I can mod it to boot.
Launching a game on my PC is just as easy, if not easier than launching it on a console. With the console I have to change discs if I want to play a different game, on my PC I just double-click an icon and bam.
Integrated multiplayer is nice, but with steam I have many of the same features as xbox live, I can instantly join my friends games and I can see exactly what they are playing, I can message them and I can even talk to them when we are not playing the same game.
Console exclusives are well... they suck tbh, I don't have the money to afford every console every generation and being locked out of certain games is terrible. What can ya do about it though...
And as for noise, my gaming laptop makes less noise than my PS3 does.
So how is it then, a system like the PS3 can do Metal Gear Solid to the standard it is (visually more impressive, smother and less glitches), but not ME3?
No, I have been concise with examples to prove my points. You have not. You might want to start putting in some actual data to back up your claims.
In a word, yes. Look at EA's release schedules; 1 new game per franchise per year. You can't make a problem free "AAA" title in one year, you cut the schedule and the devs have to cut their work on it. It's easy enough to blame the hardware when you don't fully optimize the code. Yes there are hard limits, but, given time you can make it seem like the hardware is capable of things it is normally not.
That a brand new P.C video card released at the same time as the PS3 was capable of rendering lava.
Given time you can make it seem like the hardware is capable of things it is normally not.
Yes, arcades used to be the best and I mentioned that in my original post. The consoles used to be compared to the arcade machines.
Arcade style gameplay - Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, any side scrolling shooter, any fighter or brawler. PC games (for whatever reason) tend to feel all the same because the character that you control feels glued to the center of the screen. I could list more "arcade-style" games but I'm talking about games that you would see in an arcade - not much story involved because you're out with your freinds and it's about interactive entertainment - not sitting and watching a movie or TV show.
Well, here's my question: just precisely how much processing power do we really need to have a fulfilling gaming experience? It seems to me that we had long ago passed the point where there is sufficient processing power to create a wonderful gaming experience. As far as graphics, we've long passed the point where, for most people's visual acuity, there is any distinctive difference attained in higher resolutions, higher polygon counts, higher frame rates and more realistic lighting model: humans don't see beyond 85 fps; human reflexes don't react beyond 60 fps; and the pixels in most current 4+ Mpixel monitors at normal desktop viewing distances subtends an angle at the edge of human visual angular resolution. Lighting is something that requires an artistic eye to get right, as far as creating proper moods and balance; calculating your way to quality lighting only goes so far. In terms of the processing power necessary for the underlying engine, from what I've seen and my own understanding, the main problem there is that the software is just being poorly implemented and not well optimized. So, escalating processing power is being used as a compensation for unoptimized or just plain clunky algorithms and code. If game developers wouldn't use processing power as a crutch to compensate for unoptimized code, I think we would find we could do a lot more with what we already have than we have so far realized. I feel we have seen peeks into this possibility a number of times in comparing games that perform superbly versus games that perform less than superbly (some being down right shitty).
In my opinion, the only people for whom this continuing race for escalating processing power has any relevance are the hardware manufacturers, who are fighting to maintain revenue, the enthusiasts, who simply like having the most powerful, highest-end machine around, and some publications/bloggers, who have a vested interest in the page views that come from the PC vs console flamewars. However, for the rest of us, I think we've all long passed the "good enough" threshold and just don't see any benefit to the processor arms-race. The games themselves need to actually catch-up to the hardware in terms of sophistication and craftsmanship. This is not the same as cramming in a ton of features and visual effects, but making the software more streamlined, cleaner, and better optimized to use the hardware in smart and creative ways to achieve results that create a full experience for the gamer. It's also about improving the design of the games themselves. In my opinion, the PC-console war has simply long since lost its purpose and relevance in the modern gaming market.
Powerful Processors and graphics cards have never promised a good game. frankly I don't care about any of that stuff, and it seems that the game developers that do are usually the ones whose terrible business practices ensure Im not buying they're games anyway.
Yeah, yeah, and the new God of War looks better than most other games on the PS3. That doesn't mean it's feasible for every game to look like that, I'm going to leave you to ponder on exactly why by yourself. I'm not going to get bogged down in completely irrelevant "examples".
Is parroting the same nonsense all you're gonna do? I already said it's possible that they could've been able to cram that animation in there. I asked you why you think it's a fitting way to spend devs' time when they could simply add the animation in there and move on and do other things.
You have neither provided one example - one - that directly contradicts anything I've said, nor have you provided any data whatsoever. Don't make me laugh. It's your baseless assumptions versus the words of the developers who actually make these things.
The point being? You want developers to spend excessive amounts of time optimizing their games when that optimization is sluggishly approaching a point that wasn't amazing six years ago? When they could be far more efficient with their time and push out higher quality assets (for instance) in a shorter amount of time?
And what the fuck are you even trying to say, anyway? Okay, developers are capable of squeezing more juice out of the consoles now than they were able 7 years ago. Everybody knows it, and everybody knows that what the consoles are capable now is still shit, and it takes ludicrous amounts of time to polish those games to that state of shit.
Yes, yes, I thought we already figured this out. The N64 was capable of doing "lava" too. It still looked like shit, and were CCP to try doing something with their previously planned lava planets, it would suck shit through a straw too.
Way to non-sequitur it up again. What you originally called design problems are hardware problems, it's as simple as that, and you yourself admitted it. Developers purposefully gimp their games right off the bat because the hardware can't handle much if it isn't a corridor, and then they keep cutting up their game all the way until release. This frivolous sort of "B-b-but they can still optimize" nonsense is overrated for one thing, and misguided for another thing. You simply can't expect developers to spend exponentially more time in development to get minuscule improvements if you actually care about the quality of games.
I'm done by the way, this makes my brain hurt.
I know there are 7 pages of comments precisely like this one, but it's just typical Nvidia/Intel comments to call AMD CPU/GPU/APUs trash despite them being very high value in price/performance comparisons, allowing the PS4 to retail for less than it would if other companies won the bid.
The truth is, the 64-bit 8 core AMD Jaguar CPU is a pretty big upgrade compared to previous gen hardware, and the GPU has 18 compute unites and is capable of 1.84 teraflops. That's somewhere between a Radeon HD 7850 and HD 7870, the latter of which sells for $249 at any major marketplace such as Newegg or TigerDirect. Mind you, the PS4 itself is retailing at $429, so I'm guessing AMD gave them some major discounts.
Obviously, highest of high end PCs will outperform this hardware easily, but it's still nothing terrible. I'd hardly call it low-end.
"March 2012, more than a year and a half ago"
Is this interview from the future?
You know, there's another facet of technology that's much less discussed than graphics but IMO far more important for game quality: loading times. I give zero fucks whether a game's shadows have slightly jagged issues or if the reflections from the water aren't perfect, but if I have to wait 30 seconds or more every time I go into or out of a different building we're going to have a problem. As far as I'm concerned, the ideal next-gen console would be about as powerful as a 360 and use the money they would have earmarked for a snazzy new GPU on a solid-state hard drive. Unfortunately, that will never happen, because faster loading times don't really translate into ads as well as highly detailed screenshots.
While I agree it is true that in terms of comparison there is simply no way we can compare a ps4 to a high end pc, there are other things to consider. I mean the first is of course optimization, but the more important matter in my opinion is how the release of new consoles affects the market and developers. I mean the current gen of consoles lasted how long before devs really were able to put it through its paces and utilize the entire hardware capabilities? And lets not forget some of the great console exclusives that have come from the market as well, which while I am sure could be much better on the PC, may have not existed at all in the first place if not for the console market. Some devs just roll that way I guess. So personally, I am excited about the new console generation, not because I think it will be anything special hardware wise, but because it will open the floodgates to encourage developers to make new franchises and higher end games to better suit the hardware.
It sounds more like you're missing specific types of games which is completely your prerogative. It used to be that arcades were the cutting edge of technology and consoles became able to do what they do in people's homes. This is largely why arcades died away. If they existed today the same way they used to, then they'd also not have as many side scrollers either because advanced technology is what did away with those games types as well as the demand for games utilizing 3D and advanced processing. Those things don't really make a better game, but they can make a more atmospherically immersive game (e.g. resident evil would not have been as ground breaking in 2D, this point can be arguable but I don't think there's ground to oppose that sentiment). That is to say, a game that you can stop and look around in makes you feel like you're in that world a lot more than a 2D screen. As for fighting games, they come out all the time, don't know what you're missing in that category. Indie games are also providing a lot of the 2D scrolling fix and are becoming more and more available from console stores.
Right, but your pc is not a $300 machine if it's playing Skyrim. Remember, I have a very high end pc in addition to my ps3. I know the cost and quality difference. This is why I call gaming PCs ferraris compared to consoles that are powerful but more like a middle range sports cars. PC's may be more powerful, but to get them even just as powerful as a console you're talking about several hundred dollars more and what's the point of building a gaming pc if it's only as good as consoles? So we're talking about a lot of hundreds piling up. And if you're talking gaming laptops? Throw another couple hundred on that price point. You should be able to make a more powerful desktop for around $1,000. But I suppose that depends on just how optimized the ps4 is since as stated, the hardware is not directly comparable with that same hardware in a pc.
So, with the price in mind, not everyone is has a full time salary like I and probably you have. Gaming is also my favorite hobby and so it isn't really competing with other hobbies. Some people are ok shelling out $400 for a console they're going to be able to play good games on for the next five years but would easily balk at $700 or more. Look at the ps3 launch and you'll understand that sort of debacle and that console was worth that money at the time. Regardless of whether or not you have a Ferrari or a mid-quality sports car, there will still be speed limits. In this case, a pc can process a lot of stuff but what's the point if games are designed to function on the mid-range consoles? The benefit will be negligeable unless it was designed on a pc and then downgraded for consoles. Even then, the average joe is going to have a middle quality machine or a console. So price is an important point here.
This shouldn't be the case in the next generation of gaming. I'm anticipating much larger HDDs for storing digital copies of games. Just as with the PC, you have to download or install the game from disk first. This is no different than a digital ps3 download except that games are more intuitively categorized in a games category that is seperate from other file types. I'd say they're about equal at best. Games from disk, consoles win out since inserting a disk goes directly into the game if set to do so and pcs still have to boot their weighty OS. Installation from disk also takes less time and can speed up game processing by splitting up data between the disk and drive. Games from HDD, about the same as far as I can tell. So overall it's a leg up but this just regards patience and not gameplay.
A lot of help that does with a group of friends in your living room. "Want to play Halo/COD/Etc? Alright, everyone go home." And god forbid that my wife ever want to play something like dance central with a group of her friends.
I've found that a PC and the ps3 means you can play most games. It also looks like Microsoft is poising itself to make its games available on PC's which could be interesting and may even be the future of the big boys (Steam competitors, essentially). But I've also established to positive side of these exclusive games and the fundamental positive effect that sperate consoles may have on the market by trying to compete on one another. They have deep pockets and are solidly invested in bringing quality entertainment on their consoles. That means better games for both consoles because the mere existence of one with good exclusives means the other has to do the same.
My original ps3 that is backwards compatible certainly has a noise problem. But most desktops are even noiser. It's great if you spent a few extra bucks on noise reduction devices, higher quality fans, or an HDD/SSD that produces less noise but not everyone is willing to pay more for that or are even aware of how noisy they can be. Note also that there are many reasons why a person may not want their box in the living room, not the least of which is that most pc games are still not optimized for TVs, God bless Valve for starting to change that though.
But that's it, the PC elitists we are talking about are the ones that are the first to talk about how their computers stomp this hardware, and how console gamers wouldn't know quality tech if it hit them in the face.
I mean I suppose we could start using the term PC douchebags, I guess we will let the PC crowd pick which they like better.
The funny thing about this thread is that people still dont know any real specifications about the gpu of the PS4 other than its name. Defending something as arbitrary as its name is fanboyism and you would be excatly as correct by defending Zelda on the sole principle that it is published by Nintendo.
I am very sceptic that the PS4 will shine in more than a year at most, if at all, compared to the PC, simply because of the PCs ability to make changes in specific parts of its specs without having to change everything. That said, lets see how the PS4 actually fares and judge it on its actual merits instead of just guess-work because, since no-one knows anything more substantial than what can be attributed to "turbo-powered"-naming conventions, no one really knows anything about its true specs - however crappy they may or may not turn out to be.
I all I know, is that I will wait at least a few months to get an actual representation of how the specs are, rather than jumping the wagon and buying one instantly or outright refusing it all together
Tony Tamasi says, Translation: I think PCs are better because my company can potentially sell you a 600 dollar video card every year. Where as with consoles you potentially only buy one video card every 5-10 years. This is bad business for me. Also I am butthurt that my company couldn't get the price we wanted to supply the PS4 with video cards therefore we missed out at selling PS4 gamers a video card at all this generation.
The arcades also died away because it became financially difficult to own and run them. I'm talking local arcades, not the ones you'll find in Dave and Busters.
The most important thing for me is engaging gameplay.
Zeno Clash Ultimate - a 1st Person Brawler/Shooter that made me feel like all FPS/TPS should have brawler combat.
Perhaps you can find a comon thread in the games I've picked? That's what I mean about the arcade-styled gameplay. It's not about physically owning a cabinet, it's way that modern games borrow from the past. The arcades had something beyond technology and nostalgia. They did a lot of things right in their time. It wasn't just about the graphics.
I've got it backwards, I have a great graphics card but I am in serious need of upgrading everything else :P
You wanna hear something funny? Nvidia is going to provide PhysX support for PS4.
They want the piece of that sweet console pie so much.
Huh? We know almost exactly what it is, we just haven't seen it in action:
I'm not agreeing with the article but it's a quick summary of what the numbers mean along with screen shots of Sony's released pdf PS4 spec document. The article also generally fails to acknowledge efficiencies gained in consoles over pc hardware.
It is pretty darn clear that it isn't top of the line. But it also isn't low end either. In any event, it is already several TIMES better than the ps3 which, again, is capable of playing Skyrim and is most limited by the proprietary processor. So whether or not it is top of the line may not mean much considering the degree of advancement in capabilities with contrast to what we can already do with systems that have piss-poor processors and 512Mbs of RAM (in the PS3's case, RAM divided into two 256Mb segments that make it less). So, do a little more research before claiming that we don't know what we're talking about.
Due to a typo in the event, a lot of people still think it's an x86 machine too (which would make the RAM over 4GB pointless), but note that it's x86-x64. There are some things that are still an unknown, but most of it is largely known. Enough to say what the ps4 is capable of at the minimum.
Here, compare the ps3, a very known entity with the ps4 specs. Keep in mind the best games of the system and imagine what an improvement of this magnitude can mean to gaming:
CPU: Eight-core X86 AMD Jaguar
Here's a decent article on what the ps4 specs actually mean:
They take the right things into account.
"Specifications suggest the PlayStation 4 isn't impressive when compared to a PC.
That's true, but also ignorant of history. The PlayStation 3, for instance, uses a graphics component derived from the Nvidia G70. Graphics cards built with that technology were widely available in PCs at the time of the PS3's release. Even so, the PS3's visual fidelity was impressive at release."
I swear, it's like we forget this at every console release once we became capable of understanding system specs.
You're saying that you found popping a quarter into a system and seldom getting to the end without enough quarters more engaging gameplay? Very few arcade games have real story development. It's pretty hard to design them that way with the stop and go quarter design.
I'm sorry, but your use of arcade-style doesn't seem appropriate with these in mind. These games have almost nothing to do with classic arcades aside from arcade like games being their distant ancestors. I have to ask, did you grow up with arcades? The best thing that ever happened to us was when we started getting things like Time Crises and such. I just so happened to have owned time crises on a system along with the gun and recall having spent significantly less money on that than I had been spending on the arcade game (which broke down for long enoughf or me to look for alternatives). As is, we still have two arcades in town and I'm not seeing ANYTHING like Arkham City, Ratchet and Clank, Dragon's Dogma, Kingdoms of Amalur. Consoles basically opened the world for us to have ongoing multi-hour long developing stories. Something arcades were never capable of.
Perhaps you mean immersiveness? I'm really not sure. Good games though.
Ah, so it shall be a huge improvement. I approve of this.
But on a serious note, cmon, this just makes you look like a sore loser, and nobody likes that.
Ok, I'll start over:
Today, it seems like many of the most popular games play like PC games - your character is fixed to the center of the screen and you run around shooting or what have you. It has to do with the interface primarily - instead of a joystick or controller, you have a mouse and keyboard. Nowadays, you can use a controller for your PC games, but I feel that the original way that people played PC games had an effect on the gameplay design.
Gamplay is the most basic thing, and the arcades (in their day) delivered in every way. PC gaming however, is a different world, and it seems like consoles are moving towards games that play like PC games.
The basic fun/entertainment factor is being lost in this current generation IMO. There should be WAY more games like Arkham, but we only have two. I think it has to do with the money that MMO's and FPS bring into the gaming industry more than anything else... with all the technology available to us, there's no reason why we can't have solid titles with amazing gameplay and gripping stories.
I hope I'm a bit clearer now. It's hard to talk about this because it's so broad. Time Crisis was great. I would think that if you dug Time Crisis that you'd have been into Operation Wolf too.
I get his point about the closed idea of console gaming. It makes more practical sense to upgrade your computer for a lower cost than buying a new console every few years. Or, ya know, we could all really get into rugby and not play video games anymore. 8D
All hail Tony Tamasi, scribe of The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race! Okay that joke was a bit excessive. But I do believe that what he said is true. Especially the part where Sony wanted to pay peanuts for Nvidia's services. I don't know about you but I would not want to be screwed out of money either if I had my own successfully running company. And money still makes the world go round. Anyhow, it's maybe for the best that Nvidia decided to work on their own project SHIELD. By the way, they do have to find a new name for it when it's going to be released. Because every time I write something about it I check the room to see if a bald Samuel L. Jackson with an eye patch is standing behind me.
This is fine, he doesn't sound elitist to me, and I'm a console gamer, he would be elitist if he though console people were somehow inferior. He's just talking about the hardware.
I don't particularly mind that the spcs are low compared to a pc as long as they are higher compared to the previous generation of consoles.
I guess by today's standards, my PC would be considered "low-end", given that I built it almost 4 years ago and it's outdated in nearly every aspect...
...but it still wipes the floor with Xbox 360 and PS3. Games just look far better on my PC than either console, and I'm a proud PS3 owner. Just Cause 2 was a good looking game on PS3, but it absolutely blew my mind on my PC. Skyrim, Max Payne 3, Tomb Raider, etc... so if PS4 is only "about as good as a low end PC", well, I think that's alright.
I remember when the PS3 was said to be graphically inferior to the 360, too...
How is that relevant?
Developing software for a console and developing hardware for a console is quite a huge difference.
Yes, several of the old Nintendo and Atari games were arcade games and the fact that you could play them at home at will was wonderful. I actually recall having a pong machine that attached to the TV and loving it. I'll say that one of the reasons I loved consoles growing up was the comfort of home aspect. Pajamas: check, Cereal: Check, Video Game: Check, Saturday Morning: Check. The fact that it was like an arcade game didn't really cross my mind. I didn't think I like arcade games therefore I wanted it. Games in general were appealing and I spent time at arcades and playing games at home. Pong was great and all, but it was just one game and the Atari had some decent games but some (ok, most) were real stinkers. You want to know what games killed (or started the decline of) the arcade? Games like the Legend of Zelda which was the first console game to introduce internal saves. Before then I think the only alternative was on pc and required external floppies to save games. Zork from 1980 is the one I remember for having game saves but I don't know which pc game was actually first. The introduction of plots was something arcade games really couldn't successfully do. That's not to say that the arcade model was bad, or not very fun, it was a lot of fun, but if you wanted an actual ongoing plot then consoles were the ones to go with. I think the playstation finally signaled the most significant decline of the arcade and then ps2 tore it a new one. Then came the xbox and everything since.
Today it boggles my mind how much more game we can get for under $60. Skyrim, Arkham City, etc, these are games measured in multiple tens of hours. Skyrim cost me less than 50 cents per hour when all was said and done. No other media offers that kind of value. I mean, huge discount media maybe? I got an old leatherbound copy of The Scarlet Pimpernel (considered the first hero with a secret identity) for $1 once that certainly kept my attention for more than two hours and has retained its place in my memory. But my favorite classic aside, there's just something more to owning my own adventure in a way that modern games allow. I bring that up to stress that arcades cannot or will not own that kind of complexity. How can you when there are no saves and you're constantly having to fish for more quarters every few minutes so they can actually make money off of a system that only plays one game? I'm not going to say that there's no immersion in arcade games, because I very clearly remember being immersed, but I am saying that what immersion is regularly broken in a way that console games don't really do anymore.
Ah, yes. Tactile and perspective preferences. Game complexity and processing advances have largely killed those two things. First person perspective (brought on by legitimate 3D environments) adds a higher level of immersion (like you are looking at the world). Third person perspective (which has always been around, even in Pong you are represented by a bar) in modern games isn't that different [u]functionally]/u] from the original 2D side scrollers though of course it is a World of difference aesthetically with that third dimension.
It's only a different world in that it's a perfect blank slate that allows you to do anything on it. Old arcade games to new things, it's all possible.
I strongly disagree. Games like Arkham are all over the place as sandbox games. Check out infamous, spiderman 2, hulk, etc. All you're talking about is a sandbox game in which there are a lot of small things to do along your way. I'd include any GTA game if I wasn't considering mobility in the equation. Sure, Arkham does it really well but we're a far cry (haha) from having only 2 of them.
Thanks for the recommendation. The best place to get the kind of games we used to get in arcades would actually be games for your phone, interestingly enough. There is ought but nostalgia or limited processing that would keep true arcade style games adrift.
FYI, if you are ever in Orlando, I recommend devoting at least a half-day to Disney Quest (a large five story Arcade with a one-time door charge). https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/entertainment/downtown-disney/disney-quest-indoor-interactive-theme-park/
My wife and I went there on our honeymoon and loved it(she'd always wanted to go to Disney World for some unknown reason. A place I'd been to all my life).
Wow I had no idea about that arcade at Disney World, thanks for that information. My wife has been wanting to go forever, and now that we have a little one, we'll have an excuse.
You mentioned Skyrim, and I'm glad that you did. I have a very open mind when it comes to games, but Skyrim is the ultimate example of where I don't want games to go. I really don't understand what the draw is to that game, beyond the sandbox thing.The sandbox idea is only as good as the gameplay, and I find the gameplay for Skyrim to be terrible. Roaming around in a world where the people who you survive something traumatic with don't remember you the next day is not fun. The combat is atrocious. I seriously don't get what that game is about. It plays like a PC game on some kind of bad drug...maybe that's why people love it. Skyrim is the only game that I really can't understand why people play it.
As to your comment about games on my phone - I'm not a hand-held gamer. (No DS, or Vita, etc for me.) I can't see playing a game like 720, or Marble Madness on a phone, but I'm sure it's been done. The main reason is that I get dizzy if it's a game that I usually play on a console or in the arcades. The screen is too small. An ipad might work, but I'd rather play at home on a bigger screen.
The inferior technology required our minds to do more with less - we didn't have photo-realistic imagery, we had sprites and pixels. We had 2D side scrolling backrounds that moved slower than the foreground to create the illusion of 3D. This I think this was also part of the draw to the arcades. You saw sprites and etc, but you were convinced.
Nowadays I think that the technology is wonderfull, but the way that games are designed and the overall tastes from gamers has shifted significantly. Gameplay doesn't seem to be as important b/c the arcades are no longer the standard for gaming. If you watch the videos for the PS4, it seems to be more about trends and social media rather than skill based gameplay. But perhaps I'm getting old...
Five floors of awesome, from virtual reality to the oldest arcade games on the top floor. Seriously cool stuff and everything actually works. I'm pretty sure it's where arcade fans go when they die if they were pure of heart.
Ah, well a difference of taste is certainly subjective. I'll say that the Skyrim NPCs are responsive depending on what you've done for them. The cities slowly get to know you until the point that you're a respected member and leader. They may not remember specific events but there may be a future where processing allows AI to do that. The most common complaint I hear about Bethesda games is that there's too much to do and the player can often feel like they don't know what to do next. I find the combat to be a lot more immersive. If I want to block an attack I need to hold up my shield, if I want to strike them I need to swing my sword. Though I haven't played it as a mage so I don't know how that holds up.
You have an unfortunate combination of tastes and dizziness. Though I do have a friend who gets terribly sick if he tries to play an FPS.
Yes, but none of the modern games you mentioned had any element of this in them. The indie crowd may really be a boon to you now. Make sure you get a steam account and keep up with new indie games.
You say that, but I don't know of anybody that really likes that. What the social push is doing is working on data that shows people who interact socially in games are X% more likely to stay playing that game and invest in DLC. This is an additional reason why EA pushes always on modes instead of just for DRM.
I find that if I love a game, I am then likely to start reaching out socially on it. I never start socializing unless I was drawn to the game first. I haven't seen any data to indicate that younger people are more likely to do that.
I really hope you're right about the social media and trends. I understand that those things are what business heads are looking at so that they create a product that will sell. The focus on the "share" button was very strange to me - the implication (according to the people involved with the PS4) is that gamers will be moving in this direction. I hope you're right. And this is another thing about the arcades - there was a very big social element. The internet has recreated the social element, but I can't get into it. I've played some Virtua Fighter online against people, but other than that, I don't record my gameplay and send it to people. I understand the draw, but I don't need it. I wish I could embed the video that I saw to get your opinion, but they were preaching about how the PS4 would reach out to all kinds of gamers (the "hardcore" and the "casual") and that it would do things simpler... you're probabbly familiar with all of it by now. I like simplicity, but let's keep building on what we've already got in the gameplay department.
Maybe I'll have to give Skyrim another try. To me, with all the advances in gameplay, there should be no excuse for the weirdness in that game. I mean...you start being a captive, you barely escape, sleep over someone's house, and then the next day it's like they forget who you are. I'll have to try again. I prefer Dragon's Dogma, or Kingdoms of Amalur's combat over Skyrim, but maybe Skyrim was originally designed for keyboard and mouse. Dragon's Dogma reminds me of an old school Capcom game (Magic Sword and maybe something else) because of the animation, the overall combat, and the graphics. Skyrim is a PC port onto the consoles right? I would even take 2 Worlds 2 over Skyrim. It wasn't so much that there was too much to do, it was that all the activities that you could get involved with weren't connected enough, IMO. I'm all for big games. Great conversation btw.
Well, keep in mind that the console's job is to merely make these things available. It does us no harm for the ps4 to enable it and the market will decide whether or not it's worthwhile. It is nice to be able to play with friends when I want to so the option only benefits me. The games trying to muscle us into using social features are missing the point of organically finding people online. People don't just socially reach out to anyone and everyone, there is a necessary common thread. Could be as simple as them doing a good job in a PuG raid or being cool to talk with while making a trade, but it generally has to be something. That common thread reduces the greater internet f-wad theory's anonymity requirement (It's a thing, I apologize if citing its name is offensive: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory).
The only difference between our generation and the up and coming generation is relative willingness and ease to engage in connecting that way. For us, the threads binding us together are more carefully constructed over time wherease theirs can be a lot more loosely made.
Either way, EA and companies like it fail when forcing all gamers to rely on social elements. The internet is a mean and fickle place and more often than not I find myself spamming the mute button.
All of the towns and cities have quests you can do for them. These improve your reputation with the people in the area and they come to know you. That being said, please understand that any interaction that would be based on what you've done requires running a query at some point, either to turn a flag off and other flags on to initiate certain dialogue and preventing other. This requires the information to be stored somewhere (save file) and to be accessed on the fly by these characters when you come into proximity. Something would also have to be done to keep track of what they've said so there's no chance of them randomly saying the exact same thing over and over.
Note that with advances in gameplay mean very little if the hardware does not change for 7 years. The consoles strangled Skyrim to function at 512Mbs of RAM. The PS3's asset categories further strangled the capabilities of the game because Bethesda games have asset bloating problems. It's not them being bad developers, it isn't a problem on standard hardware like the 360, it's a necessity for such a large world with such dynamic features. They did what they could within the realm of what is possible on the consoles and they basically performed magic in what they still accomplished.
With the advancement of hardware we may see one of their next games doing this. They've certainly been trying and far more than we see other games doing. So, as the best of the pack I don't know if we can levy this complaint against them so much as against gaming's lack of the ability to do it in general at the moment.
Yes, pretty much all of Bethesda's games were designed for pc use moreso than console use. It was likely designed with the 360 specs in mind as a limitation and may have even been developed on 360 dev kits but since the 360 used non-proprietary hardware architecture the there's not so much of a difference between that and developing for a pc. But I agree that a lot could be done to increase recognition for a job well done or for being a villain.
Yes, I've really enjoyed the discussion. It's nice to try to deconstruct modern gaming into classic elements.
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text:
Hey Everyone,
So curious if anyone else has experienced this problem playing as Parliament (1.03 patch) and even though I have an army in Norwich, the decision for Defensive Entrenchment is still not valid.
And I can't understand why, the MC in Norwich is 100% in my favor of me, and there's at least a level one city there, thus having a hard time trying to bring up the Loyalty in the Eastern Association so I recruit units here, since it seems that's only good way to do so. . (Side-note, maybe there should be more decisions to increase loyalty in certain regions?, it's very limited I find)
Bug by chance? or am I missing something?

subset: commoncrawl


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text:
The Bethel Clarion
Vol. XVIII No. 1 BETHEL INSTITUTE October 5, 1938
Religious Council
Appointments Made
At the combined chapel service Sep-tember
27, about sixty students make a
pledge of full time service in gospel team
work. Quite a few responses of part time
work were also given.
Emphasis is being placed upon smaller
groups this year. With smaller groups
it is possible to have more groups and
consequently reach a larger area.
Ned Holmgren, President
The gospel team work is under the
jurisdiction of the Council of Religious
Activities. Professor Reuben Nelson is
the adviser to the Council, which is un-der
the presidency of Ned Holmgren.
Robert Peterson is vice-president; Dor-othy
Beckman, secretary; Vernon Pear-son,
treasurer; and Herman Tegenfeldt,
missionary band representative.
The heads of the different gospel
teams are: Robert Person, team 1; Sid-ney
Larson, team 2; William Hagstrom,
team 3; Rawlin Johnson, team 4; Paul
Lindgren, team 5; Kermit Johnson, team
6; Grant Samuelson, team 7; Henrietta
Carlson, team 8; Gladys Peterson, team
9; and Alrik Blomquist, team 10.
Large Enrollment
In Boarding Club
Ninety-six students thronged their way
into the dining hall as the Bethel Board-ing
Club opened to serve its first meal of
another school year on Tuesday, Septem-ber
13. According to Jack Bergeson, the
club's new steward, this enrollment ex-ceeds
that of former years and establish-es
a new record for the organization.
Due to the increase in the number of
people being accomodated, Warren John-son
has been added to the kitchen crew
to help where most needed. Henrietta
Carlson, Gladys Peterson and Henrietta
DeCamp are assisting Mrs. Olson, the
cook, while Gus •Ferre, Ned Holmgren
and Stanley Rendahl busy themselves
with washing dishes.
In connection with the Boarding Club,
a cafeteria is maintained in the college
building to accomodate resident students.
Doris Moberg and Ruth Olson have
charge of this branch and give reports of
good business.
As has been the custom of previous
years, the Boarding Club truck will visit
(Continued on page 3)
Miss Platts, Dr. Lovegren
Added to Faculty _
Miss Enid Platts of Steamboat Rock,
Iowa, is a new member of the Junior
College faculty. She is teaching all of
the English and speech classes in the
college. Miss Platts was graduated from
Wheaton College, Wheaton, Illinois, and
received her M. A. degree from the
George Peabody School for Teachers,
Nashville, Tennessee. She has taught in
the Villa Park School, Villa Park, Illi-nois,
and in the Wheaton College Sum-mer
School this past summer.
Dr. Levi Lovegren has been appointed
to be a part time instructor on the facul-ty.
Dr. Lovegren will teach Mathematics.
He was graduated from Minnesota Uni-versity,
and served as a missionary to
China for several years. At present he
is doing research work at the University.
Rev. Reuben Nelson has become a full-time
instructor in the Seminary. He is
teaching the following subjects: Exege-sis,
Comparative Religions, Biblical
Archaeology, Homiletics 11, Bible, Bible
Appreciation, and Biblical Sociology.
During the past three years he has been
the educational and promotional secre-tary
of the school as well as a part-time
instructor for the past year.
Dr. Arvid ,Gordh, though having re-signed
from his position as instructor in
the Seminary because of ill health, found
it possible to be part-time instructor.
He teaches Beginning Greek and Greek-
Exegesis. He also has charge of the
Seminary library.
Rev. Wyman Malmsten has been ap-pointed
promotional secretary of the
Oct. 5. Alexis.
Oct. 7. Smorgasbord served by
Bethel Institute Woman's
Oct. 12. College Club.
Oct. 17. Gospel Team Rally.
Oct. 19. Missionary Band.
Midst the hacking of nervous throats,
and worried countenances, Prof. George
Hultgren, head of Bethel's music depart-ment,
listened to prospective singers go
through their much-troubled pace. Out-side
the "trying-out" studio, anxious voic-es
were mumbling those voice exercises
they tried to recall from former days,
with one ear intently listening to what
might be the fate of their friend who was
now facing judgment staff.
The studio door opens with a disas-trous
click—"Next". And the poor vic-tim
lets a nervous laugh pass his lips in
the word, "I guess I am." And In he
goes. What went on in there, only the
individual, Prof. Hultgren and his staff
will know.
The Male Chorus
An almost complete return of old
members to the Male Chorus eliminates
the usual difficulty of training to the ex-tent
that would be necessary had there
been many new voices added to the
group. However, the chorus has been
strengthened by several new voices.
The membership list is as follows:
first tenors, Folke Ferre, Carl Holm-berg,
Roger Nordell, Virgil Olson, Gor-don
Peterson, Henry Rahn; second ten-ors,
Wyman Hanson, Ned Holmgren,
Maurice Lawson, Earl Sherman, Carl
Young; first bass, Bruce Fleming, Clay-ton
Halvorsen, Truman Halvorsen, Ker-mit
Johnson, Arthur Slaikeu, John Va-line;
second bass, Clifford Dickau, Rod-ger
Goodman, Hilton Hanson, Orville
Johnson, Earl Larson, Runo Palmqulst,
Herman Tegenfeldt.
The A Capella Choir
The A Cappella choir also has a tine
representation of old members but has
been strengthened considerably, with a
membership of close to fifty as compared
with a membership of approximately
thirty during the past year. It is believed
that with a larger group, more and bet-ter
work can be accomplished. The fol-lowing
are members of the choir: first
sopranos, Henrietta Carlson, Doris Mo-berg,
Dorothy Beckman, Gladys Biller,
Phyllis Tjernlund, Neoma Sund, Ethel
(Continued on page 3)
"God resisteth the proud, .. . Humble yourself therefore ... that (God) may
exalt you in due time." I Peter 5:5-7.
The closer walk with Christ is not the place of lesser but of greater
temptation. An imminent temptation—even after eliminating the false ac-cusations
of those feeling the condemnation of some Godly life—is spiritual
pride. Let us have the mind and the spirit of Christ: "he humbled himself) and
became obedient unto death even the death of the cross."
As a school we have occasions for spiritual pride. We must take care!
Several pastors have said—though they 'welcome a definite and conservative
stand—"Don't advertise Bethel's spirituality—especially in regard to prayer."
No, there is no need of that! "God will exalt in due time." We can not af-ford
to use spirituality for publicity, and then bend great efforts in promoting
displays and secular features. In every effort let Christ' be first. He giveth the
victory. EDWARD NELSON.
Page 2
The Bethel Clarion
1480 N. Snelling Ave., St. Paul, Minn.
Official School Paper of Bethel Institute
Published bi-weekly every month
except June, July, August.
Gordon Peterson
Carl Young
John Valine
Vernon Pearson
Alrik Blomquist Business Manager
Dorothy Drotz Asst. Business Manager
Stanley Rendahl Circulation Manager
Doris Eggleston Asst. Circulation Manager
Grace Widen—Elaine Youngquist Typists
Miss Enid Platts Editorial
Dean Emery A. Johnson Business
Versions of "Twinkle,
Starry-eyed college freshman:
"Oh, you ducky little star
Who'd ever think you were so far,
Nestled on the sky's dark bosom.
I haven't the teeniest idea what you are
Yet you shine as brightly as my flashing
Sententious Sophomore:
"Irradiate, corruscate, and scintillate in-consequential
sidereal atom.
There is not a modicum of dubiety in my
mind about your location or com-positional
By discovering your parallax it is but a
matter of extreme ease
To ascertain your solar situation to be
twenty-five thousand billion miles
from our cosmos.
Your similarity to a diamond is but an
assertion of assininity,
For you are but an ellipsoidal mass of
molten metal surrounded by a
nebulae of luminous gases.
Seminary Freshman:
"Are you a star or aren't you?
Do you twinkle or don't you?
It's presumptuous of me to wonder about
But three years hence return, and then
I shall have crystallized my con-viction
and systematized my
Perchance then I may adequately cope
with so inscrutable a subject.
Seminary Middleman:
Note: Being on the whole of a serious
and conscientious trend of mind the mid-dleman
spends all his evenings in the
sanctity of his study, buried in books and
engulfed in a halo of profound concentra-tion.
Consequently, never having an op-portunity
to observe the stars he is in no
(Continued on page 4)
Abandoning the custom of issuing o y one paper a month, the new Bethel, Clar-ion
will leave the press approximately very two weeks. Though the paper is slight-ly
smaller it is felt that the more freqUent plublication will prove of more interest
for the news will be more frequent.
It is encouraging to see the interestlhat the large group of prospective reporters
The school paper can function successfully; only to the extent which the student
body lends its support. And the paper rattst keep the tradition that has been estab-lished.
The Bethel Clarion is the paper thr the Bethel students. Shall We make use
of it?
"Esprit de corps" or Weather Forecast
A school has several barometers whereby it may guage the school spirit or loyal-ty
of its constituents. Scholastic achievement indicates a vital interest in the cur-ricula
of studies offered, but is by no means the only method of measuring extant.
Support of, and participation in, extra-curricular activities reveal even more clearly
the existence of that most essential quality—school spirit—"esprit de corps".
We are ever and again called upon to take inventory of our mental attitudes
and aims as we begin a new school year. We are asked to consider in the calm
light of reason, why we are here, and what we are seeking. If moments of elevated
thought are induced by these exhortations, might we not retain the vision long
enough to regard our relative responsibility to the religious, musical, and journalistic
activities of our Bethel family. If participation is impossible may we at least ask
ourselves before passing a depreciating remark, "Just what have I done to make that
particular phase of school life more than the object of jest?".
Voicing the feeling of the entire student body, we would extend our heartfelt
sympathy to Gustave and Folke Ferre, on the recent passing of their father.
Associate Editor
News Editor
Sports Editor
1573 University Ave.
Midway 9910
4209 Standish Ave. — Minneapolis
THE BETHEL CLARION Page 3
Largest Student Body
In School's History
Dean Emery A: Johnson reports the
largest enrollment in the history of the
school. As each year goes by with larger
enrollment than the previous year, the
potentialities are seen. This year there
are 138 students registered in the Junior
College. The Seminary enrollment has
mounted to 44. Eliminating the duplica-tions
the total student body of the school
is placed at 174. This year the increase
is figured at 17 per cent over the enroll-ment
or last year.
(Continued from page 1)
surrounding communities to collect dona-tions
of various food stuffs given by those
associated with and interested in the
The executive members of the Board-ing
Club include Dorothy Beckman, Carl
Holmberg, Edward Nelson and Carl
(Continued from page 1)
Tederman; second soprano, Ruby Swen-son,
Ruth_ Erickson, Ruth Olson, Con-stance
Swanson, Dorothy Webster, Ruth
Nelson, Elaine Youngquist; first alto,
Margery Ericson, Gladys Peterson, Olga
Shenning, Eveln Miller, AlveTa John-son,
Joyce Johnson, Blanche Sherman;
second alto, Alice Anderson, Ruby Chris-tenson,
Dorothy /Drotz Audrey Martin,
Ruth Tegenfeldt, Leone Smith, Grace
Widen; first tenor, Walter Julien, Virgil
Olson, Henry Rahn, Folke Ferre, Carl
Holmberg, Dean Nordell; second tenor,
Gordon Peterson, Ned Holmgren, Maur-ice
Lawson, Earl Sherman, Dury
first bass, John yaline, Wyman Hanson,
Truman Halvorsen, Clayton Halvorsen,
Alrik Blomquist; Bruce Fleming; second
bass, Rodger Goodman, Hilton Hanson,
Orville Johnson, Herman Tegenfeldt,
Clifford Dickau, Runo Palmquist.
The male chorus and A Cappella lists
are necessarily temporary. Additions, or
subtractions may 'be obligatory in order
to secure the correct balance and blend-ing
in both groups.
Programs Scheduled
An interesting series of programs has
already been suggested for the choir and
undoubtedly others Will be scheduled as
the year progresSes.
The Male Chorus will begin its singing
season on Wednesdity, October 12, when
it is scheduled to appear at the First
American Baptist Church of Minneapolis.
Do You Xeme• mber? The faculty tea given for the girls of
Bethel on September 15 was an informal
affair. Mrs. K. J. Karlson introduced
the ladies of the faculty. Music was sup-plied
by Ruth 'Fredine, piano, and Alice
Anderson, vocal solos. Mrs. W. Malmsten
favored with readings
The All-School party held in the Col-lege
chapel September 16, was attended
by a very large percentage of the student
The B. W. A. installed the new offi-cers
in a candle light service, October
22. Ruth Tegenfeldt is president; Jeanne
Tretsven, secretary; Marjorie Erickson,
vice-president; Henrietta DeCamp, treas-urer.
'Elliot James demonstrating Liquid Air
was the first Chautauqua program fea-ture
of the year; September 30. The
Bethel Band played a 20-minute program
before the experiments of Mr. James.
The "Hudor Ballou" Seminary seniors,
escorted their auxilliary to an entertain-ment
in the form of an open air service
Tuesday evening, October 3. The noctur-nal
steak fry took place at Hidden Falls.
Profs on Vacation
During the summer months, the facul-ty
of Bethel was traveling about the
country, studying, visiting, promoting,
and enjoying.
In the latter part of June, Dr. and Mrs.
Hagstrom and Dr. K. J. Karlson and
family attended the conference at Wil-mington,
Delaware, and visited other
points of interest enroute. Prof. Reuben
Nelson had just arrived at Wilmington
when he was called home because of the
death of his father, Rev. P. G. Nelson.
Dean Emery Johnson and his family
made an extensive tour to Washington,
and acquainted the churches along the
way with Bethel by means of moving pic-tures
of the school.
Some Teach; Some Study
The Wisconsin assembly had Prof.
Adolf Olson as a faculty member. Coach
William Adam took care of the athletic
work of the Minnesota assembly.
Miss Effie Nelson studied at the Uni-versity;
Miss Johnson visited Wilming-ton,
Del., and worked in the library at
Washington, D. C. The summer school
in Moscow, Idaho, profited by Prof. Hult-gren's
teaching; and Prof. Bergman con-tinued
his classes here in the cities until
August when he went to his summer
home on the North shore.
Activities and engagements at home
were carried on by Prof. A. J. Wingblade
and Prof. Olson. The repair work in the
Seminary and Junior College was under
Prof. Norstrom's direction.
After two months of promotional work,
la E. Carlson went to his home in
Bethel Band Begins
On Thursday, September 22nd, 20 play-ers
gathered together to organize the
1938-'39 Bethel College Band under the
direction of Gordon Peterson. It is a
larger group than last year's, which con-sisted
of approximately 13 members.
There are several new members to fill
the vacant places left by the non-return-ing
band members.
The functions of the band will be to
play at Chautauqua programs, basket-ball
games and various other programs
and entertainments.
Thor Kommedahl has been appointed
to act as librarian for the group. The
school has purchased a new baritone
horn to be added to the instrumentation,.
An attempt has been made to organize
an orchestra among the Bethel students.
Though only 15 members are forming the
nucleus, it promises to be an asset to the
School. The first rehearsal was held
Thursday, September 27, in the 'college
The school is cooperating in this new
endeavor to the extent of purchasing new
music for the organization. Gordon Pe-terson
will act as the director of the new
Alexis Meets
The Alexis Society will meet Wednes-day,
October 5, in the Seminary chapel.
This initial meeting will prove interest-in,
for the speakers, Wilbur Sorley and
Rodger Goodman, will speak on the ori-gin
and the purpose of the society. Ker-mit
Johnson will play trumpet selections,
and the Girls Trio will sing.
Male Chorus Pow-wow
The male chorus will frolic in a pow-wow
Friday, October 7. Henry Rahn,
program chairman, announces an inter-esting
time for both new and old mem-bers.
Gwynne, Alberta, Canada; Miss Sabel
spent the summer with her father in Chi-cago;
and Dr. Gordh visited his son in
Louisville, Kentucky,
Hamline Hardware Co.
F. O. Hagen J. W. Hagen
755 North Snelling Avenue, St. Paul
Complete Line of Bakery and
Delicatessen for All Occasions
1193 Payne Ave. TOwer 2910
Westlund's Market House
Quality Meats and Provisions
597 N. Snelling, cor. Thomas
We Deliver N Estor 1321
8th St. and 13th Ave. So.
Pastor, A. E. SJOLUND
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Bethel Baptist Church
24th St. and 28th Ave. S.
Rev. WALFRED HOLMBERG
Minneapolis, Minn.
Central Baptist Church
Roy and Shield St.
Rev. ERIC ANDERSON
St Paul Minnesota
Page 4 THE BETHEL CLARION
Pigskin Dusted;
Football Begins
The first football game for many years
was played on Bethel's gridiron, Friday,
September 23rd. The Intra-Squad game,
which was played to demonstrate the
possibility of six man football as a reg-ular
activity, was won 16-0 by the Red-shirts,
captained by Truman Halverson,
over the Greyhounds led by Vernon Pear-son.
The first score was made when a bad
pass from center was fumbled. Holmberg
recovered for his own team behind the
goal line for a touch-back. The touch-downs
were scored by Dahl, on a long-run,
and R. Nordell, who intercepted a
Those who took part in the contest
were for the Red Shirts: T. Halverson,
G. Ferre, R. Dahl, R. Nordell, R. Peter-son,
K. Karlson and R. Hovinen; for the
Greyhounds: V. Pearson, R. Applequist,
C. Holmberg, W. Hagstrom, D. Peterson,
D. Johnson, G. Samuelson and P. Lund-gren.
"B" Winners Organize
Under the leadership of Coach Adam,
a group of athletic letter winners organ-ized
a "B" club on September 22. Virgil
Olson was elected president; Clifford
Dickau, vice-president; and Ray Apple-quist,
secretary-treasurer. There are ap-proximately
25 "B" winners in school at
present and a great host of "B" alumni
throughout the country. The interest of
the club is not only social, but the group
will attempt to support the various ath-letic
activities of the school.
From the Coach's Desk
October 5th, was the first call for all
old and new basketball candidates. The
Wednesday practices will continue until
November 1, when a heavier schedule will
After November 1, the squad will be
divided into A and B groups. Practices
will be on Monday night at 8, and Tues-day,
Wednesday, and Thursday after-noons
at 4. Arrange your schedule to fit
these hours.
The first basket-ball work out for the
girls will be Thursday afternoon, Octo-ber
6, at 3. Regular practise will begin
about November 3.
"Duff" Is Dorm "Ma"
Maurice Wessman has been appointed
dormitory supervisor for the current
year. He fills the position vacated by
Clayton Bolinder to maintain quiet and
order with the men living in the Semi-nary
"Duff" has been active in campus ac-tivities
since he came to Bethel in the
fall of 1934. At present he is the presi-dent
of the Alexis Society, president of
the Boarding Club Board besides serving
as pastor of the Hillsdale and West Ellis
churches of Wisconsin. He is a seminary
(Continued from page 2)
position to make a statement concerning
Seminary Senior:
Dearly Beloved, the text we are to
consider today is, I am sure, familiar to
you all. How readily it lends itself to
analysis, and yet how cautiously we must
approach it and avoid the pitfalls of er-ror.
"Twinkle, twinkle, little star . . . ."
Observe four points, the star's activity,
the star's position, the similarity of the
star to the diamond, and lastly but most
important of all the attitude of man to-ward
What is your attitude toward the
stars? Science and the higher critics
have proved beyond the shadow of a
doubt that man is the most important
part of the universe. Do you believe
that? If not, spend more time beneath
the heavenly hosts and sense how im-measurable
your own importance im-pinges
upon your mind.
Just a kindly word of caution and I
close, beware the seductive snares of
that other nocturnal light, the moon.
Pittsburgh Coal Company
Cedar 185I
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Father's unexpected death motivated Carl Bradford to succeed
Green Bay — The pick made little sense. A 6-foot-1 outside linebacker? With 30-inch arms? No, the Carl Bradfords do not last as edge rushers. They're swallowed by NFL anonymity. Forgotten.
With the 121st overall pick, the Green Bay Packers essentially scribbled over the measurables, over 3-4 logic.
Arizona State's Bradford understands the draftnik doubt.
"People can't see the lion roaring inside of me," he said a day after the draft. "I can't cry about my height. I can't cry about how long my arms are. I control what I can control and that's my effort."
Part of you believes him, too. Because on March 12, 2013, Bradford's life changed.
That day in Louisiana, without warning, his father's eyes rolled back into his head. He collapsed. He took his final breaths in his son's arms, dying from a heart attack. And son would never be the same. This day had a lifelong effect on Green Bay's fourth-round pick, a fire-breathing finisher with 20 sacks and 39.5 tackles for loss his last two seasons.
He now plays for his father above all else.
After that call from the Packers on Saturday — family members screaming in pandemonium, the same family members present for that horrifying scene in Jonesboro, La., a year ago — Bradford stepped away. Everything, he exhaled, "rained down on me." Memories recharged. He remembered discussing this exact moment with his dad.
Then, he cried. Half the tears were joy, half pain. Bradford still copes with this loss. But he knows how to play with it.
Father is still with son.
"Man, I just wish he was here to experience it all," Bradford said. "He's here in my heart, and that's what matters."
Growing up in Norco, Calif., Bradford grew to expect the occasional "whupping." His dad, Roy Bradford, was a no-nonsense disciplinarian. The six brothers and sisters lived at a small home on a couple of acres. Horses, cows, pigs, you name it, the Bradford ranch had it.
Dad put son to work. Son stayed in line.
"He really believed in the beatings with the belt," Carl Bradford said with a chuckle. "An old-soul, old-school type of father."
So you can imagine Bradford's horror when he stole a student's phone in middle school ... and Dad found out. Roy Bradford came to the school, approached his son and Carl braced for the snap and crack.
What happened next forever changed Carl Bradford. His dad began to cry. He wasn't furious, he was disappointed.
He stared into Carl's eyes.
"That actually hurt me more than a physical whupping," Bradford said. "Man, it was a crazy feeling in my body."
He made a point never to disappoint his father again. That day forward, Bradford said he "shaped up." He never again got in trouble with a teacher, with the law. He feared that look — that chilly, empty gaze — from his father more than any belt. This became a bond forged in trust, in a son determined to make Dad proud. They worked on the ranch together, fixed cars.
And Roy Bradford, who played at Grambling State, was the one who introduced Carl to football.
Football was their glue. Back in his heyday, Roy Bradford stacked plates upon plates onto the barbell himself. So as Carl matured, he chased his father's weight-room numbers. In the Arizona State weight room, he became a gym-rat legend.
So the day Carl told his dad about his bench press (385 pounds), power clean (400 pounds) and squat (650 pounds) milestones, Dad gave him a much different look.
He smiled.
Said Bradford, "You couldn't shake us."
A year ago, Roy Bradford needed to take his family to his hometown — Jonesboro, La. — a town of about 4,000 people. So many brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles whom his own children never met still lived there.
This was a chance to connect. With Carl on spring break at Arizona State, the timing was perfect.
The Bradfords enjoyed a long day at the home of Roy's aunt and were ready to call it a night when Dad insisted they all see his brother, Danny, who worked at a casino bingo hall. The kids agreed. And they visited their uncle, played the slot machines, laughed and told stories.
Gathered in a circle, the family members sat on stools. Roy and Carl Bradford, naturally, were next to each other.
And unprompted, Dad turned to son, his eyes rolled to the back of his head and he crashed to the ground. Carl's sister pounded on his chest. Carl's brother gave him CPR. Nothing resuscitated Dad to life.
The ambulance arrived and he was pronounced dead. He was 70 years old.
Yes, Roy was a man of 350 to 400 pounds, but there were zero signs, zero pre-existing conditions that could have softened the blow. That entire day, he was "alive and kicking and laughing," Carl said. This was shock turned horror.
That moment his father's eyes turned white, Carl "felt dead" himself.
Said Bradford, "I can't even explain how horrible it was."
Almost immediately, he redirected to spring football practice — numb and confused.
"My feelings were gone," Bradford said. "I didn't know how to feel. I didn't know how to act. The man who raised me since I was young was gone ... and I can't do anything to bring him back."
Some days, he'd weep. Other days, he'd shut down.
Bradford never considered quitting football. To him, giving up on the game equated to giving up on his dad. But early on, he played in a lost daze. His head coach at Arizona State, Todd Graham, could see it, too.
Graham was in Louisiana for the funeral. He knew Roy Bradford was more than a father; he was "a hero" to Carl.
"There's a physical fatigue and a mental fatigue that come with the grieving process," said Graham, who also coaches the outside linebackers. "He dealt with that. It took him a little bit to come out of that. He never said anything. He didn't talk a lot about it. I could tell it was bothering him."
Bradford and Graham — two very, very Type A personalities — became closer. Bradford spoke more with the team chaplain. A renewed faith in God helped. He learned to, somehow, accept this tragedy. And as a player, Graham told Carl Bradford to take all this emotion ... and use it. "Rise up," he said. That's what his father would want.
One breakthrough was a 62-41 shellacking of USC. Bradford had five solo tackles, one sack and a game-long clear mind.
"That was a game where he really learned to let it out," Graham said. "He really takes it to another level in those big games."
Son pinned a photo of his dad in his locker. Euphoria replaced sadness. He played on emotion — at times, too much emotion. After one heated exchange against Oregon State, Graham benched Bradford for a half. Yet quickly, Bradford made each Saturday a salute to his father.
Early that season, Graham tinkered with X's and O's. He had Bradford drop in coverage. He moved him around. Finally, he stopped himself. Why bother? The best way, the only way, to use Bradford was to cut him loose. Graham capitalized on this unrelenting passion.
Bradford finished with 61 tackles (19 for loss), 8.5 sacks, three forced fumbles and one interception returned for a touchdown.
Graham once coached against Dwight Freeney in college, another short-ish pass rusher
To him, these two are similar.
"He'll make a tackle, be on the ground and do a hand spring off the ground," Graham said. "Like a gymnast. Really explosive. And he knows how to bend. He knows how to contort his body. And he's just so fast off the football ... he's the best I've ever coached coming off that edge.
"He's a guy who will start with the potential to be an all-pro."
So this is why Carl Bradford's Twitter account name reads I am my Father. This is the mentality.
"I am him. I walk in his vision," he says. "When I make a play, I know how excited he'd be. I just think in my head, 'Keep going. Make him more excited.'"
Again, it's no secret why Bradford dropped into the fourth round of the NFL draft. Brian Gutekunst, the Packers director of college scouting, even noted that Bradford isn't "your prototypical 6-4, 35-inch arm type of guy." He does see rare explosion. Gutekunst pointed to the 37-inch vertical and 10-foot-1 broad jump, saying this helps players with shorter arms defeat blocks.
Smarts help. Bradford decoded quarterbacks' audibles on a play-to-play basis at Arizona State.
Asked about the Packers' scheme and his skills, Bradford said it's a perfect match and that Green Bay drafted "one hell of a player."
Starting this weekend at rookie camp, he'll get a chance to prove it. The true fuel to his explosion — the key to an undersized pass rusher sticking — is simple. His dad.
The grieving process continues. By no means is Bradford over his father's death.
He does know how to cope with it all on the field.
"He's definitely still running through me," Bradford said, "still running through my blood and my veins. He's always and forever in my heart. And I'll always be motivated by that."
Packers Blog
The Journal Sentinel's beat writers provide the latest news, notes and analysis on the Packers.
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A simple variant on the classic Aviation, using Hayman's Old Tom gin. I chose the Hayman's because I have a problem with the Aviation; I think it's just a touch out of balance on my palate, with the lemon juice so heavy and the sweetening agents so light. (However, I know that if you bump up the maraschino and violet liqueur, you're going to get a drink that's just nasty.) Hayman's is only mildly sweet, as far as Old Toms go, apparently, so I thought I'd try it. I like it.
- 2 ounces Hayman's Old Tom gin
- 3/4 ounce fresh-squeezed lemon juice
- 2 teaspoons maraschino liqueur
- 1 teaspoon crème de violette
Shake over ice. Strain into a chilled cocktail glass; garnish with a lemon twist.


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Jina Bolton
Lars, I don't know what it was that I said that gave you the impression that I wanted lots of money. That was actually quite the opposite of what I was saying. Success is not about that — it's about feeling accomplished and pleased with the work you are doing.
Allessandro, by taking care of yourself mentally, I was referring to your stress levels and a work-life balance. Socially, I just meant taking time out to spend time with friends and family — which is something people can struggle with, if they work too much.
The point of the article was about balance. I know I used some personal examples, but it wasn't meant to be a superficial article. I was just trying to share examples that would tell the story of why I feel the way I do about work life balance and success in the work we do — which again, does not necessarily have to do with money.


text: Hello! Am 12.8.2007 8:07 Uhr schrieb "Carsten Aulbert" unter <carsten.aulbert at aei.mpg.de>: > Anyway, that's the reason why we want to include a dhcp client and some > means, possibly a ssh or rsh client along with the needed packetdriver > to the image and notify the server that way, that it successfully > flashed the BIOS and set our custom settings correctly. Only after that > the nodes should continue FAIing. Quite often, the flash tools even don't work when a extended memory manager like himem or emm386 is loaded - so you wouldn't have the chance to include a complete network stack. There are some basic TCP/IP stacks around. I remember XFS, this was a simple NFS client for DOS, the LANMAN Client and the Microsoft client which are located on a NT4 Server CD. Both provides access to a fileserver and are probably enough to store a semaphore file. More sophisticated staks were the IBM TCP/IP for DOS - I'm quite sure you wouldn't hve the chance to find the floppys anymore. It's probably the safest way to organize some students, give them a keyboard, a monitor and a memoy stick containing the flash files... Beat -- \|/ Beat Rubischon <beat at 0x1b.ch> ( 0^0 ) http://www.0x1b.ch/~beat/ oOO--(_)--OOo--------------------------------------------------- Meine Erlebnisse, Gedanken und Traeume: http://www.0x1b.ch/blog/


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DUBLIN — Dublin High School officials have shut down a gymnasium after a construction crew found signs of mold.
The school district hired an environmental consultant to conduct tests after signs indicating the potential for mold damage were found in the roof, according to a mass email sent by the school principal.
"We are grateful the facilities department took immediate action to notify us and close off access to this building while a comprehensive plan is being developed," Principal Carol Shimizu wrote in an email sent to faculty and parents.
Carpenters were working on the gym earlier this week, preparing for renovations to be done this summer, when they found water leakage and damage coming from the roof of the school's older gym, said Superintendent Stephen Hanke.
School officials immediately moved to close the gym, Hanke said.
"The safety of our students and our teachers and those who use our facilities is very important to us. … We don't know what the results of the tests will be, but we wanted to take steps as soon as we learned there was a potential issue, to test the area, and to develop a remediation plan if that is necessary."
The gym that was closed is not the only one on campus, which has a new sports complex that was recently opened.
The environmental consultant that Dublin High officials have hired is to inspect the gym Thursday, and will test both the gym and the locker rooms. If it turns out there isn't mold present, the gym could open within a day or two, said Hanke. Otherwise, it will remain shut until school officials are sure there is no more mold present. "Our intent is to communicate very clearly on an ongoing basis about the testing with our parents, teachers, and those who use the gym," Hanke said.
For now, until testing has been completed, Dublin High students are using their PE periods as an extra study period. But if mold is discovered, and the gym needs to be closed for an extended period, Hanke said he is confident modifications could be made to the PE program so students could still take part in physical activities despite not having locker rooms for changing.
Both the gym and the locker rooms were scheduled to be renovated during the summer, so the gym was going to be closed down starting at the end of this school year, said Hanke. Dublin High School has about 1,950 students.


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He was 76.
His long-time friend and co-accused, John Artis, said Carter died in his sleep after a lengthy battle with prostate cancer.
"It's a big loss to those who are in institutions that have been wrongfully convicted," Artis told The Canadian Press.
"He dedicated the remainder of his life, once we were released from prison, to fighting for the cause."
Artis quit his job stateside and moved to Toronto to act as Carter's caregiver after his friend was diagnosed with cancer nearly three years ago.
During the final few months, as Carter's health took a turn for the worse, Artis said the man who was immortalized in a Bob Dylan song and a Hollywood film came to grips with the fact that he was dying.
"He tried to accomplish as much as he possibly could prior to his passing," Artis said, noting Carter's efforts earlier this year to bring about the release of a New York City man incarcerated since 1985 — the year Carter was freed.
"He didn't express very much about his legacy. That'll be established for itself through the results of his work. That's primarily what he was concerned about — his work," Artis said.
Born on May 6, 1937, into a family of seven children, Carter struggled with a hereditary speech impediment and was sent to a juvenile reform centre at 12 after an assault. He escaped and joined the Army in 1954, experiencing racial segregation and learning to box while in West Germany.
Carter then committed a series of muggings after returning home, spending four years in various state prisons.
He began his pro boxing career in 1961. He was fairly short for a middleweight, but his aggression and high punch volume made him effective.
Carter's life changed forever one summer night in 1966, when two white men and a white woman were gunned down in a New Jersey Bar.
Police were searching for what witnesses described as two black men in a white car, and pulled over Carter and Artis a half-hour after the shootings.
Though there was no physical evidence linking them to the crime and eyewitnesses at the time of the slayings couldn't identify them as the killers, Carter was convicted along with Artis. Their convictions were overturned in 1975, but both were found guilty a second time in a retrial a year later.
After 19 years behind bars, Carter was finally freed in 1985 when a federal judge overturned the second set of convictions, citing a racially biased prosecution. Artis was also exonerated after being earlier paroled in 1981.
Carter later moved to Toronto and became the founding executive director of the Association in Defence of the Wrongly Convicted, which has secured the release of 18 people since 1993.
Win Wahrer, a director with the association, remembers Carter as the "voice and the face" of the group.
"I think it's because of him that we got the credibility that we did get, largely due to him — he was already a celebrity, people knew who he was," she said.
"He suffered along with those who were suffering."
Though Carter left the organization in 2005, the phone never stopped ringing with requests for him, Wahrer said.
"He was an eloquent speaker, a passionate speaker. I remember the first time I ever heard him I knew I was in the presence of a man that could move mountains just by his presence and his words and his passion for what he believed in," she said.
Carter went on to found another advocacy group, Innocence International.
"He wanted to bring people together. That was his real purpose in life — to get people to understand one another and to work together to make changes," said Wahrer.
"It was so important for him to make a difference. And I think he did. I think he accomplished what he set out to do."
Association lawyer James Lockyer, who has known Carter since they were involved in the wrongful conviction case of Guy Paul Morin, remembered how Carter called him just before sitting down with then-president Bill Clinton for a screening of his 1999 biopic "The Hurricane."
The call was to ask for advice on how to bring the U.S. leader's attention to the case of a Canadian woman facing execution in Vietnam.
"Even though this was sort of a pinnacle moment of Rubin's life — to sit at the White House with the president and his wife on either side of him watching a film about him — he wasn't really thinking about himself," said Lockyer.
"He was thinking about this poor woman who was sitting on death row in Vietnam that we were trying to save from the firing squad."
The film about Carter's life starred Denzel Washington, who received an Academy Award nomination for playing the boxer turned prisoner.
On Sunday, when told of Carter's death, Washington said in a statement: "God bless Rubin Carter and his tireless fight to ensure justice for all."
Carter's fight continued to the very end.
Never letting up even as his body was wracked with cancer, Carter penned an impassioned letter to a New York paper in February calling for the conviction of a man jailed in 1985 to be reviewed — and reflected on his own mortality in the process.
"If I find a heaven after this life, I'll be quite surprised. In my own years on this planet, though, I lived in hell for the first 49 years, and have been in heaven for the past 28 years," he wrote.
"To live in a world where truth matters and justice, however late, really happens, that world would be heaven enough for us all."
— with files from the Associated Press.
Follow @willcampbll on Twitter


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Pet-Friendly Apartments for Rent in University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK - 5 Rentals available
We found 0 rentals in University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK and 5 rentals nearby
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We found 5 rentals within a 5-mile radius of University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK
$1,125 - $1,600
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$1,155 - $1,230
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Renting a pet-friendly apartment in University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK
Some of us need service dogs either for everyday life or to do our jobs, while some of us keep pets just for the simple reason that they are awesome. Regardless of your arguments, though many landlords in University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK may not be on the same page with you, and there's not much to do about it. Excuses, they have plenty—birds make noise, cats sabotage curtains, dogs intimidate unsuspecting neighbors with violent outbursts of unconditional love, and so forth. We know these generalizing accusations MIGHT even apply to MOST other pets, and yours is an exception, but trust us when we say: there's no exceptions if the pet policy says your four-legged embodiment of innocence is a no-no in his community. To spare you the pain of sifting through University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK communities that won't accept your pet anyway, you can now filter the results to show pet-friendly rental properties only.
Check the breed restrictions at all University Heights Suburban Centre, Saskatoon, SK pet friendly apartments
Pet-friendly rooms and housing sound good and all, but you may still be in for a nasty surprise if you have a large breed dog. Yes, he's harmless, and behavior doesn't have all that much to do with size, but stereotypes are often stronger than actual arguments or a spotless record. See if the property you've set your eyes on offers no-breed-restriction apartments by scrolling down to the Pet Policy section. While you're unlikely to find neon signs that say "pit bull-friendly rentals HERE," this may give you an idea whether it's worth asking around if they'll accept your behemoth.


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How to Wear Spring's Strong Silhouettes, with Actress Zoey Deutch
Actress Zoey Deutch may have gone to the dark side for her role in this month's Vampire Academy, but for our shoot, she was playful and light, trying out bold prints, pops of color, and spring's strong silhouette. The 19-year-old, who recently attended her first fashion week, talked to us about rocking shoulder pads (mom Lea Thompson starred in '80s film Back to the Future!), crying at The Notebook, and talent-crushing on Natalie Portman.
Describe your style in 3 words.
Elegant and classic juxtaposed with funky.
What is your favorite piece of clothing?
Right now I'd say my favorite piece of clothing I own, and wear the most, would be a pair of bulky black boots from the '90s. They're super flattering and work with almost anything.
How do you decide what to wear on a red carpet?
I don't really have an exact process yet... Still in the works! For the most part I try to wear what I feel comfortable and good in. I loved this Stella McCartney white high waisted skirt and black loose-fitting top with patches.
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention your mom's '80s pedigree. Are there any '80s trends you'd bring back or be willing to try?
I could maybe rock shoulder pads at some point. Hey, the harem pant came back!
What movie always cheers you up?
What movie always makes you cry?
The Notebook... How original?
Is there an actor or actress you'd love to work with in the future?
I have such a talent crush on Natalie Portman it's not even funny. I think I'd spontaneously combust if I got to work with her.
Outfit Credits:
Look 1
Diane von Furstenberg Britta Animal-Print Jacket ($795) in Pearl/Blk; Topshop Gingham Half Sleeve Crop Top ($40) and Gingham Jacquard Treggings ($50) in Multi; Jacquie Aiche 14K Assorted Diamond Bezel Ear Cuff ($1690); H&M Platform Boots ($40) in Beige.
Look 2
Topshop by Boutique Brushed Mohair Jumper ($140) in Bright Coral; H&M Dress ($70).
Look 3 (outside cover)
Topshop Enjoy Coke Sweater ($60) in Burgundy
Photographer: Jose Pepe Leon
Fashion Editor: Laurie Trott


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The Washington Times contrasts John McCain's good relationships with conservative bloggers with the rocky reception he's gotten on talk radio:
Even as talk radio was brutalizing Sen. John McCain in the Republican presidential primaries, conservative bloggers reached a respectful truce with the Arizona senator over touchy issues and gave him what the campaign called a "tremendous positive psychological" boost.
As the Times notes, McCain's outreach to the bloggers has been effective because it featured McCain himself conducting frequent conference calls which he has opened up to questions. We've reported on a number of them. To me, the most significant thing about our contacts with McCain has not been the elucidation of his policy positions, although the calls have been a reminder that McCain is, by any reasonable definition, a conservative. What has been most effective is the candidate himself: his humor, his evident sincerity, especially when talking about security issues, and the frankness of our exchanges with him.
Patrick Hynes, who coordinates internet outreach for the McCain campaign, has done a good job. In the campaign's dark days last summer, there were several staff layoffs; each time, I wondered whether Patrick had survived. Luckily, perhaps, for McCain's campaign, he did.