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Wherein a surgeon tells some stories, shares some thoughts, and occasionally shoots off his mouth. Like a surgeon.
Sunday, February 10, 2008
Tortured Logic
President Bush told the world, "The United States does not torture." (I did NOT..Have..Abusive... Relations...with that prisoner... Mister Zubayda...) The CIA now admits to waterboarding at least three prisoners. So there are two possibilites: Bush is a liar, or the US has undefined waterboarding as torture. Either way, it only adds to the degradation of our image in the world.
After WW II, the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding our own. During the Vietnam War, a GI was convicted in a court martial for waterboarding a Vietnamese prisoner. It's a technique used by the Khmer Rouge, the North Vietnamese, in Chad, and in the Spanish Inquisition. And, it should be noted, its purpose was to get people to confess to things they hadn't done. Like being witches, or pawns of the criminal US government (as in the case of North Vietnam.) Not, in other words, to get at the truth. Under such torture, it's said, people will say anything. It's not a lie detector. Except, evidently, in the US.
But that's neither here nor there. The point is this: waterboarding is torture, and has been so designated by the UN Convention Against Torture, not to mention the US's own standards. Until now. So. Who do you think we are, George Bush? If you want to argue, like Jack Bauer, that torture works and is justified, then do so and make your case. Does it, in fact, produce reliable information? Is it the best or only way? Is it in our long-term interest to be known as a nation that tortures? To survive, must a democracy be as bad as the baddest? People so argue. Man up, as they say, and give us your best shot. Just don't lie to us, or insult us by saying black is white. There's already more than enough bullshit to go around.
And, for the record, I happen to think that becoming like our enemies, in the case of Islamic terrorism, is exactly the wrong way to win the war, which, in the most final of final analyses, is a war of ideas. I think our ideas have transformative power, which is, in part, why Osama, et al, keep convincing George Bush to piss all over them. Is what I think.
37 comments:
- A'Llyn said...
I think so too...thanks.
- Susan from the Pacific Northwest said...
How can we let our country do this??? Thanks.
You left the Gestapo out.
The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn't-somehow-torture - "enhanced interrogation techniques" - is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.
- Andrew Sullivan - 2/10/2008 6:41 PM
I'd encourage you to weigh in on the coming election. I think that it is important to hear reasonable voices discuss the issues, rather than the usual babble from the chattering classes.
- Sid Schwab said...
Jscarry: there are plenty of weekends between now and then!
- Patrick Bageant said...
You are in good company. Today I read Hamdi v. Rumsfeld in which Justice O'Connor, writing for a plurality, states:
"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
She was talking about detaining citizens without due process, but she would likely apply that same conclusion to water-boarding, too.
Only kind of relatedly, I would like to make a humble suggestion for a weekend post, if I may. Us young buckaroos don't even remember Reagan. I'm twenty five years old, and my first political memory is candidates Dukakis and Bush posted above the blackboard . . . in my kindergarden classroom.
Tell me, do you trust this administration more or less than Reagan? Than Johnson? The more I learn, the more I feel like the country is controlled by a small group of crooked snakes. I guess people have felt that way to one degree or another for the last forty odd years. Are things worse today?
I realize it's a little outside the scope of Surgeon's Blog, but hell, why not share some experience with us kids? - 2/10/2008 8:32 PM
- rcktgrl88 said...
Hi Sid,
I heard you on a download of Dr. Anonymous last night. Can't wait to read your book.
Keep these political screeds coming. What's just as appalling as waterboarding is the fine young men and women accused of employing such tactics who now say they were only following orders. Gee, where have we heard that phrase before?
Love your blog, even though I am new to it. Keep on truckin'
Rocketgirl - 2/10/2008 8:34 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
Patrick: Reagan is and was a mystery to me in so many ways: revered quite literally (the Republican debates when they were all but praying to him and claiming his beatific smile from heaven), despite having raised taxes, having questionable personal "family values," engaged in clearly unconstitutional practices (Iran/Contra). I always considered him a willing vessel -- not unlike George Bush -- for the ideologues hiding behind the curtain and pulling the levers. Spoke very well, especially when reading the words written for him; and like GWB, not so much when on his own. His invasion was successful, however; albeit on a country the size of a postage stamp, done to save the world for medical students who couldn't get into US schools. Then claimed we were once again "walking tall." There's where it all began!
- Bongi said...
great arguement. wrong is wrong whether it is done to us or by us, whoever the us may be. the us and them mentality can be so destructive. i see a similar disproportionate appropriation of guilt in my country. it seems when you are in a position of power it is easy to excuse abuse of that power, even when you know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of abuse of power.
i look forward to reading your blog on weekends. - 2/11/2008 2:11 AM
Oh, man, you're a subversive.
Welcome to the club; we're in good company (Tom Paine, Tom Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Sam Adams, Martin Luther King).
Right on! - 2/11/2008 4:13 AM
- rlbates said...
Thanks, Dr Sid. Torture is torture. Can't think of any time I would feel it was justified.
- Justine Johnston Hemmestad said...
Dr. Schwab,
I have two parts to my question, if you don't mind:), both from an objective standpoint...you know that I'm a passionate Obama supporter, but in an objective way, (not an apologetic way), do you think that Bush may suffer from PTSD? Some of the historical leaders of the world regarded their countries as more than as their responsibility, but kind of as their children, of them, an extension of them. I know first-hand that in PTSD a major symptom is avoidance, and being as how he avoids diplomacy with suspect countries and jumps to react, it may stand to reason. I don't think it would justify his heady actions but I think it might explain a bit. Just a thought I've had and wondered about.
Also, I'm studying connective tissues in my A&P course now and I (little do I know) was surprised to learn that blood is a connective tissue. Therefore, I wondered what some of the effects of trauma like torture are on blood, if their are any... It seems like there would be, which is what made me think of it while reading your post. There must be effects on nervous tissue, but it seems likely there may be effects on blood too? - 2/11/2008 6:15 AM
- Justine Johnston Hemmestad said...
A slight amendment to my comment:)...I didn't explain why I though Bush may suffer from PTSD, so I meant to suggest PTSD due to the devastating physical blow to his country in the first year of his administration.
- Not Important said...
Dr. Schwab,
Thanks for the discussion. More people need to be aware of these issues. - 2/11/2008 8:00 AM
- Sid Schwab said...
Justine: as to PTSD, I don't see it. It was a trauma to us all. For a while after 9/11 nearly everyone in the country was with him. Afganistan was okay, the world agreed. He could have gotten to and kept the high ground. Addictive personality? Maybe. Daddy issues? Perhaps. A need to believe he's right in all things, for whatever reason, and surrounding himself with people who serve that end, and some who used his defects to manipulate him (Cheny, et al): that's what I see the problem is.
I don't recall hearing blood referred to as a connective tissue, but I suppose it could be so considered. WIthout looking it up, I think of connective tissue as having certain proteins, fibroblasts, etc. Among the effects of trauma of any sort on blood are the rendering of it hypercoagulable; DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulopathy); hemolysis... - 2/11/2008 8:12 AM
- Justine Johnston Hemmestad said...
Dr. Schwab,
Thank you so very much for your help and direction in the traumatic effects on blood. I found DIC extremely interesting.
Thank you also for your input on Bush having/not having PTSD. Your interpretation of his problem is probably much more accurate. - 2/11/2008 9:28 AM
I've read many descriptions, but your picture trumps them all. I do believe there is a strong case to be made for charging Cheney and Bush and more with war crimes. If someone were doing it to our soldiers, it would be!
- Pete said...
Dr. Schwab,
That successful Reagan invasion you reference has gotta be Grenada...I was buttoning up my combat fatigues and mentally reviewing my own combat plan as a Hospital Corpsman back then, but before I could finish tying the laces on my boots, the damn war was over. Heck, the flight from San Diego to Grenada lasted longer than the entire "war". It seems so naive now, but back then, when I was young and stupid, the cold war was frankly, boring, so Grenada had me all pumped up for about 48 hours.
Your Tortured Logic post is spot on.... - 2/11/2008 7:49 PM
- SeaSpray said...
Presidential candidate, Senator McCain is a prime example of what you are talking about. He was in the Hanoi Hilton enduring torture for 5 years or so. Confessed to war crimes against the North Vietnamese that he didn't commit because of the torture.
I know there are people out there calling him a traitor but maybe they should have walked in his shoes first. He also refused release but opted to stay with the other soldiers instead in spite of the torture.
Didn't he stand up against torture being used when all the news about Abu Ghraib made it in the headlines? McCain Amendment?
I wish no one ever tortured and there were no innocent people being killed anywhere.
No I haven't been inspired by any one candidate as yet but thought of him because of your post and the comments. - 2/11/2008 9:53 PM
- scalpel said...
Sometimes we have to do things we'd rather not do. For example, we would prefer not to kill any innocent civilians during wartime, but sometimes we do anyway, because we feel that the end justifies the means. Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.
Regardless, George W. Bush won't return to the White House again, unless Laura decides that her experience as first lady qualifies her to be president. And none of the candidates remaining this year are likely to support torture.
Unless something really bad happens that makes them reconsider. Again. - 2/12/2008 1:06 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
scalpel: I suppose I could split hairs and say the civilian casualties are, at least in some sense, accidental. The decision to torture is deliberate, and is the prime intention. In the ticking time-bomb scenario, I admit to thinking if it actually works, it might be kept on the table. But there are pretty credible sources that say it doesn't, unless the aim is to produce a false confession. Bush tells us it has averted attacks. He also raised terror alert status every time there was bad news about him out there; and the few arrests that have been touted (remember Ashcroft trotting out to announce the latest triumph?) have all ended up to be overblown, and under prosecuted.
- scalpel said...
KSM was one of the three who were reportedly waterboarded, and we supposedly got quite a bit of useful information from him (and he probably squealed like a pig, too).
If you are going to split hairs, I guess I can too. Our forms of "torture" don't physically harm the prisoners. Saddam's henchmen used to hang people from hooks on the ceiling by their wrists tied behind their backs, for example, long after their shoulders dislocated. And cut off fingers and tongues, among other things. And push people off of buildings.
But the war was unjust, nevertheless, I suppose. And we are no better than them, as long as you split the proper hairs. - 2/12/2008 1:23 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
scalpel: I'd love to know how much of KSM's info came from torture, and how much from the non-torture techniques that were described as used on Saddam. In the best of all worlds (well, until there's world peace and everyone is holding hands) we'd be seen as better than all of that, even the "lesser" torture methods. If we are trying to export our ideals, yada yada... I think it's important in the long run.
And I wouldn't call the war unjust (which is not to say it isn't). I'd call it stupid, because it's given OBL exactly what he wanted. Every day we stay, he gets more of what he wants. Which is why it's so stupid: if we leave too precipitously, he gets more. It was the worst thing any president has done, ever, and if it doesn't literally destroy us, it'll have brought us down for a long, long time. It was unjust to US, I guess. - 2/12/2008 3:06 PM
It doesn't matter whether torture works. It debases both the torturer and the tortured.
It debases our humanity.
In that way, it's like capital punishment, it's horrible for its victims but even more horrifying is the degradation of the torturers and executioners.
THEY become less than human and those who are tacit approvers acquire the same corruption. - 2/12/2008 4:20 PM
- Doctor David said...
I couldn't agree with you more! I can't imagine we gain ANY useful information from torturing prisoners. I'm sure they eventually will say anything to make it stop, just as the victims of the Spanish Inquisition did.
Your most important point, though, was your last one. This is a war of ideas, and if we have to sacrifice our ideals to "win the war", we haven't won at all. They have. Because we will be no better than them. - 2/12/2008 5:37 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
beauzeaux: your point is an excellent one, although I'm sure there are some who'll say it's just another unfortunate but necessary side effect, like the tens of thousands who return from war permanently ruined. The intransigence of such a mindset is a big reason why it may never change.
- Midwife with a Knife said...
I totally agree. I once read (sorry I don't remember where) someone who wrote that if we can't do something to our own prisoners/crime suspects, we probably ought not to be doing it to prisoners of war/terrorism suspects.
- Sid Schwab said...
There's also this issue.
- scalpel said...
There's also the issue of where do you draw the line between coercive interrogation techniques and torture? Clearly the "comfy chair" approach isn't going to extract much needed information. Is harsh questioning torture? Is a cold room? How cold? How about making someone stand up for a long time in one place? Or listen to music they don't like? Or deprive them of sleep?
Heck, so far it sounds like my third year surgery rotation. - 2/13/2008 10:29 AM
- Assrot said...
I agree with you 100% Sid. If becoming the Devil is what it takes to beat the Devil, then I want no part of it. Go ahead and behead me and have done.
Torture is wrong and immoral. If you use it, then you have become wrong and immoral. How then can you say you are different than your enemy?
By using torture, you have become the same as your enemy. So why then are you still fighting him if you have become the same as him. You are brothers. - 2/13/2008 5:48 PM
- kimberly said...
Some of you are talking like Neville Chamberlain, the wimpy Prime Minister of England,who tried to placate Hitler,
even as he began to ride roughshod over Europe. Thank God for Churchill.
Otherwise the history of the 20th century might be very different.
The terrorists would blow any of you to bits, just as quickly as they did your fellow citizens.Don't tell me if your families were on a plane, about to be blown out of the sky, and waterboarding a terrorist would prevent that diaster from happening, you would sit there and whine about his/her mistreatment. I doubt it.You will probably never be asked to make that decision, but think about it. If waterboarding a few terrorists would have saved all the marines that were killed in Lebanon, or those lost at the twin towers, would you still object so strongly?
I certainly would not.
I cheered when Israel or whoever dispatched that last miserable terrorist, from the 1985 hijacking. Less we forget, a young American sailor was tortured,murdered, and thrown from that plane.
Unfortunate as it may be, we are not waging an Emily Post War.George Bush,whatever his shortcomings, understands that. So did F.D.R., and Harry Truman. I will never cast a vote for any candidate, who wants to follow the wimp trail of Jimmy Carter.
I would wager that Ariel Sharon regretted many times not dispatching Yasser Arafat, when he had chance. How many innocent lives would that have saved?
One last question. Would you have objected to the torture of Nazis, if that torture had prevented the slaughter of several thousand jews? - 2/16/2008 10:59 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
kimberly: what George Bush has done, for the most part, has been to see to it that there are more terrorists in the world, more willing, more anxious, and more able to attack us. No one doubts there are terrorists who represent a very real and very significant threat. George Bush seems the least able to understand what they actually are and how best to deal with the essential nature of the threat. As to your final question: it's like asking if you'd torture if it'd make world peace.
And you may have missed the point of my post: Bush said we don't torture. Waterboarding is torture, and the US has defined it as such. So, rather than lie once again to the world and make us look even worse than he already has, why not stand up and make his case for why we must torture? If we are going to be like the terrorists, like the Khmer Rouge, like the North Vietnamese and the Spanish Inquisitors, then tell us why it must be so. Don't just undefine the word, like unwriting the Constitution. - 2/17/2008 8:52 AM
- kimberly said...
What George Bush has managed to do is prevent another major terrorist attack on American soil.
To equate anything,
America has done with the savagery of what Pol Pot did in Cambodia is to show a complete miunderstanding of history. The idea is utter nonsense.
Since world peace isn't even on the table, I will move on. Would I be willing to torture a terrorist if it meant saving American lives. You bet I would.
Being the sister of two marines and the neice of another, I have little patience with armchair generals, so please pardon me if I seem rude.
The first duty of an American President is to protect American citizens. Harry Truman was critized for doing just that in 1945. History has vindicated him.
I am not suggesting wholesale torture of terrorists. Far from it.
But in select cases if waterboarding, or some other technique saves innocent lives,then so be it.
I do agree that Bush should step forward once and for all, declaring that in some circumstances, controversial techniques will not be ruled out.
There is far to much concern with what the world thinks of us. Many countries should be more concerned with what we think of them. They call us the great satan, and imperalists among other things, but when diaster strikes, they are whining like a spoiled child for the good old U.S.A. to bail them out. If America is so terrible in the eyes of the world, why do we have an immigration problem? Why are the people filling our schools and hospitals, costing the American taxpayer billions of dollars, not making a rush for the Mexican Border? Strange, I have never heard of anyone trying to sneak out of America.
Some countries, such as France (until recently), have repeatedly
shown their ingratitude to the U.S.
Never mind the thousands of American lives it cost to free their behinds from the Germans.
There are exceptions. Eastern European nations, such as Poland, are very much aware of what it costs to skake the yoke of tyranny.
This is an odd place for this coversation, and I will not post here again because I know that neither of us will change our position. I have had this conversation many times with my aunt's ex-hippie husband.
In the end I will probably vote for John McCain,although I am not thrilled with him.In a perfect world, HIllary Clinton would be a Margaret Thatcher. There is a woman after my own heart. She did not play the gender card. You never saw her husband. Best of all, she knew how to deal with terrorists. Just ask Bobby Sands.
Your blog is excellent, for the most part, and You are probably a nice guy. Nice guys don't always finish last, but when it comes to war and terrorism, nice guys to often get killed.
Good luck to you. - 2/17/2008 5:43 PM
- Sid Schwab said...
Kimberly: I spent a year in Vietnam. Got wounded, but not killed.
The question is whether torture works anywhere but when Jack Bauer does it. Both CIA and FBI experts say no, that the info thus obtained is unreliable.
Pol Pot waterboarded. It's a fact, not a misunderstanding. I didn't equate anything else.
And as I've said elsewhere, saying George Bush has kept us safe is like the guy falling off the Empire State building passing the thirtieth floor and saying, "So far, so good." The Iraq war has not made us safer in any way. The Afganistan war did, for a while, but he went to Iraq before sealing the deal, and things are heading toward getting as bad there as they ever were. The things Bush did that are useful, he has also screwed up: remember the airport screeners at first? He opposed the department of homeland security. He has spent so many resources in Iraq that we don't have the money properly to protect ports, nuclear plants, etc. Even the white house itself said recently that al Queda has increased its ability to attack here. I don't for a minute discount the danger. I just think that nearly everything Bush has done has made it worse: and the fact that there have not been attacks in no way proves otherwise. And, of course, the number of terrorist attacks world-wide has gone up enormously every year he's been in office. Winning the "war on terror?" Only in his mind. Such as it is. I think McCain is probably as honorable a guy as there is on that side of the aisle, even though he just voted against outlawing waterboarding after saying over and over that it's torture and shouldn't be used. Kissing up, anyone? - 2/17/2008 6:00 PM
get off your high horse
- Sid Schwab said...
anonymous: brilliant rhetoric, cogent argument. Convincing grasp of and response to the issues at hand. You've shown me the error of my ways.
Enhanced interrogation techniques probably means using Versed/Midazolam. If they can't remember being tortured, then it isn't torture, or is it? Sid, this drug is used on unsuspecting American citizens so that they can be tortured by medical professionals and Police every single day with this drug. I can't feel any real sympathy for TERRORISTS while our own population is abused with impunity. If that makes me a bad insensitive person, so be it.
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And this morning, we're following the progression of a major storm, hurricane Sandy, which is turning toward parts of the mid-Atlantic and Northeast. The National Hurricane Center briefly downgraded Sandy to a tropical storm, but this morning restored it to a category one hurricane. Parts of the east coast are bracing for destructive winds and heavy flooding once Sandy makes landfall in the coming days.
Storm is already blamed for at least 43 deaths across the Caribbean and some forecasters say it could be wider and stronger than the worst East Coast storm on record. And hurricane Sandy is upending election activities, too. Both Mitt Romney and Vice President Joe Biden have cancelled scheduled appearances this weekend in Virginia. The storm could also hamper early voting in several states and overshadow the candidates' final arguments in these final days of the presidential campaign of 2012.
Please stay with NPR and NPR.org for the latest on hurricane Sandy's progression. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

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With Easter coming up I was looking for a new recipe for a special breakfast or brunch on the long weekend. While I was going through my bookmarks I came across this recipe for a spinach and feta clafoutis that I had saved a while ago on More Than Burnt Toast and my search for a tasty breakfast was over. A clafouti is a French dish where an egg batter, generally filled with something, is baked and up until I had come across this recipe I had never even considered the possibility of a savoury clafouti. I immediately knew that I would have to try a savoury clafouti and this one was perfect as it was filled with some of my favourite Greek flavours with the spinach and the feta. In fact the flavours reminded me of spanakopita, a Greek spinach pie which I have had no end of fun spinning into different dishes over the years.
This clafoutis is pretty easy to make which makes it perfect for brunches or light weeknight meals. You pretty much just need to saute some onions, wilt the spinach, pour over the egg batter and cheese and bake until golden brown. Despite the minimal effort require to make it, this clafoutis is one tasty dish! The spinach and feta combination along with fresh dill definitely works well in a savoury clafoutis! I now have my breakfast planned for the weekend and I already have other ideas for savoury clafoutis dancing in my head.
Spinach and Feta Clafoutis
A savoury take on a clafoutis with all of your favourite flavours from spanakopita the Greek spinach pie.
- 1 tablespoon olive oil
- 1/2 onion (diced)
- 2 green onions (sliced)
- 5 ounces baby spinach (roughly chopped)
- 1 tablespoon dill (chopped)
- 1 tablespoon parsley (chopped)
- salt and pepper to taste
- 1 cup milk
- 3 eggs
- 2 tablespoons all-purpose flour
- 1/2 cup feta (crumbled)
- 1 cup kasseri or mozzarella (grated)
- Heat the oil in a pan.
- Add the onion and saute until tender, about 5-7 minutes.
- Add the green onion and spinach and saute until the spinach wilts.
- Remove from heat and mix in the dill and parsley and season with salt and pepper.
- Pour the spinach mixture into a shallow 6 cup baking dish.
- Mix the milk, eggs, and flour in a food processor and pour it on top of the spinach.
- Sprinkle the feta and mozzarella on top.
- Bake in a preheated 350F/180C oven until puffed and golden brown on top, about 20-30 minutes.


text:
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Race | |
Men | |
General Information | |
Other names | Atani, Secondborn, Hildor, Apanónar |
Origins | Children of Ilúvatar |
Locations | Hildórien, Beleriand, Númenor, Gondor, Arnor, Rohan, Dunland, Harad, Khand, Forochel, Rhûn, Rhovanion |
Rivalries | Orcs |
Languages | Taliska, Adûnaic, Sindarin, Rohanese, Westron, Quenya |
People | Bëorians, Haladin, Hadorians, Easterlings, Númenóreans, Black Númenóreans, Dúnedain, Arnorians, Gondorians, Corsairs, Forodwaith, Haradrim, Rohirrim, Dunlendings, Men of Dale, Beornings, Bardings, Drúedain, Hobbits |
Members | Bëor, Hador, Barahir, Beren, Húrin, Morwen, Túrin, Niënor, Tuor, Elros, Ar-Pharazôn, Elendil, Isildur, Bard, Denethor, Boromir, Faramir, Théoden, Éomer, Éowyn, Aragorn |
Physical Description | |
Lifespan | Middle Men - c. 80-100 years Númenóreans - c. 200+ years[1] Kings of Númenor - c. 400 years[1] Dúnedain - Thrice the life of lesser men but later slightly diminished[2] Hobbits - c. 100 years Drúedain - Shorter[3] |
Distinctions | Mortality, rulers of Middle-earth |
Average Height | Dúnedain - 6'4" (average)[4] Númenóreans - 7'0" (average)[5] Middle Men - Shorter Drúedain - 4' to 5' Hobbits - 3'6" (average) |
Hair | Black, brown, chestnut, blond, auburn, red, and (when older) grey or white |
Skin | Fair, pale, sallow, ruddy, tan, dark tan, light brown, dark brown, black |
Weaponry | Swords, knives, bows, axes, spears |
Gallery | Images of Men |
West, North, and South the children of Men spread and wandered, and their joy was the joy of the morning before the dew is dry, when every leaf is green.
Men were one of the Kindreds of the Children of Ilúvatar. Men were called the Secondborn (or the Second Kindred[6]) by the Elves, their Elder brethren, because they were the last of all the incarnate races to come into being. Though they were born after the other sentient races, Men were destined to inherit and rule Middle-earth.
Origins and nature
The race of Men is the second race of beings created by Eru Ilúvatar. Because they awoke when the Sun first rose in the heavens late in the First Age, while the Elves awoke millennia before them, they are called the Secondborn (Quenya: Atani, Sindarin: Edain) by the Elves. Men awoke in a land located in the far east of Middle-earth called Hildórien. When the Sun rose for the first time in the far West, Men began to wander towards it, a journey which culminated in some of them reaching Beleriand centuries later.
There is much evidence that, soon after their awakening, Morgoth came to Men and incited them to worship him and turn away from Ilúvatar, and that they complied. Though all were seduced by the Enemy, some Men repented and escaped; they were said to be the ancestors of the Edain.
Men bear the so-called Gift of Men, mortality. Elves are immortal, in the sense that even if their bodies are slain, their spirits remain bound to the world, going to the Halls of Mandos to wait until they are released or the world ends. In contrast, Men are released from Arda and the bounds of the world and have rest from its troubles. Ilúvatar also gifted Men with the freedom to shape their own future, being rather free from the designs of the Music of the Ainur.[7] However, the influence of Morgoth has caused Men to fear their fate, and view Death as a Doom instead of a Gift.
Groups and alignments
Although all Men are related to one another, there are many different groups with different cultures. The most important group in the tales of the First Age were the Edain. Although the word Edain technically refers to all Men, the Elves used it to distinguish those Men who fought with them in the First Age against Morgoth in Beleriand. The Edain were divided into three Houses.
The First House of the Edain was the House of Bëor, and entered Beleriand in F.A. 310 and were granted the fief of Ladros in Dorthonion by Finrod Felagund. The Second House of the Edain, the Haladin, was led by Haldad and later by his daughter Haleth and settled in the Forest of Brethil. The Third House, which became the greatest, was led by Marach and later his descendant Hador, and they settled in Dor-lómin. This house was known both as the House of Marach and the House of Hador.
Other Men did not cross the Misty Mountains or fight against Morgoth. However, some, such as the Easterlings, fought openly on his side. In later Ages, the Haradrim and Easterlings would fight on Sauron's side against the descendants of the Edain. Here below follow the short descriptions of the most important groups of Men in the First, Second and Third Ages.
Edain and Dúnedain
As a reward for their services and assistance rendered to the Elves and the Valar in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age, the Edain received a new land of their own from the Valar, between Middle-earth and the Undying Lands. This was the land of Númenor, an island in the form of a five-pointed star that was far away from the troubles of Middle-earth.
They were led to this island by Elros with the help of his father Eärendil, who sailed the heavens as the bright star of the same name and guided the ships of the Edain to Númenor. Once they arrived, Elros became the first King of Númenor and took the name Tar-Minyatur. The Edain became known as the Númenóreans or Dúnedain (Sindarin for Men of the West). The kingdom of Númenor grew steadily in power, and the Dúnedain became the noblest and highest of all Men on Arda. In their early days, the Dúnedain remained allied to the Elves of Middle-earth, and aided them in battle against Morgoth's lieutenant Sauron.
As the Men of the West increased in power and happiness, they came to resent the Gift of Men, Death. They wished to become immortal like the Elves and enjoy their possessions for all time. Most of the Númenóreans, including the line of the Kings, began to turn away from the Valar, and spoke against the Ban of the Valar that forbade them to sail west beyond sight of Númenor or to enter Valinor. The Númenóreans also became increasingly hostile to all Elvish influences in their realm, and in 2899 of the Second Age, Ar-Adûnakhôr became the first king of Númenor to take his royal name in Adûnaic, the language of Men, instead of Quenya, the tongue of the Elves of Valinor.
During the early part of their rebellion, the Númenóreans became divided into two factions: the first, the King's Men, enjoyed the support of the King and included the majority of the people. They wished to gain immortality and break away from their ancestral allegiance to the Valar. The King's Men also wanted to end relations with the Elves, and thus they favoured Adûnaic as the official language and eventually punished those who spoke the Elven tongues. The persecuted minority faction, the Faithful, were led by the Lords of Andúnië, the westernmost province of Númenor, and remained loyal to the Valar. They also tried to maintain friendship with the Elves.
When Sauron was apparently defeated and taken to the Isle by the Númenórean army near the end of the Second Age, he took advantage of the pride of the Númenóreans. By teaching the Dúnedain many things and flattering the King, Ar-Pharazôn, he worked his way into the King's counsels and won the hearts of the people. Ultimately, Sauron advised Ar-Pharazôn to attack Valinor and claim immortality. This he foolishly did, and as a punishment Númenor, the island of the Men of the West, sank into the Sea and only the Faithful escaped. When the Faithful returned to Middle-earth, they founded the twin kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor.
Black Númenóreans and Haradrim
The Faithful weren't the only Númenóreans left on Middle-earth when Númenor sank. When Númenor grew in naval power, many Númenóreans founded colonies in Middle-earth. Many of the King's Men settled in Middle-earth because they wanted to conquer more lands, and the Faithful because they were persecuted by the Kings. The Faithful settled in Pelargir, while the King's Men ruled the Haven of Umbar and other colonies in the South. When Númenor was destroyed, the King's Men became known as the Black Númenóreans and remained hostile towards the Faithful of Gondor. Eventually, Umbar was conquered by Gondor in 933 of the Third Age.
In Harad another group of Men lived called the Haradrim or Southrons. They were dark skinned Men and waged war on great Oliphaunts or Mûmakil. They too were hostile to Gondor, though they were subdued in T.A. 1050 by Hyarmendacil I.
Both Umbar and the Harad were left unchecked by Gondor's waning power by the time of the War of the Ring, and presented grave threats from the south. Many Haradrim fought with Sauron's forces in Gondor in that War.
Most Men who fought in the armies of Morgoth and Sauron were Easterlings who came from the regions beyond the Sea of Rhûn. Some Easterlings offered their services to the Elvish kingdoms in Beleriand; among them were Bór and his sons, and Ulfang the Black and his sons. This proved to be disastrous for the Elves in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad when Ulfang and his clan switched sides and defected to Morgoth, though Bór and his sons died bravely fighting on the side of the Eldar.
After Morgoth's defeat Sauron extended his influence over the Easterlings, and although Sauron was defeated by the Last Alliance of Elves and Men at the end of the Second Age, the Easterlings were the first enemies to attack Gondor again in T.A. 492. They were soundly defeated by King Rómendacil I, but they invaded again in 541 and took revenge by slaying King Rómendacil. Rómendacil's son Turambar took large portions of land from them.
In the next centuries Gondor held sway over the Easterlings. When Gondor's power began to decrease in the twelfth century of the Third Age, the Easterlings took the complete eastern bank of the Anduin except Ithilien and crushed Gondor's allies, the Northmen.
The Easterlings of the Third Age were divided in different tribes, such as the Wainriders and the Balchoth. The Wainriders were a confederation of Easterlings who were very active between T.A. 1856 and 1944. They posed a serious threat to Gondor for many years, but were utterly defeated by Eärnil II in 1944.
When Gondor lost its royal dynasty in 2050 the Easterlings started to reorganize themselves, and a fierce group called the Balchoth became the most important tribe. In 2510 they invaded Gondor again and conquered much of Calenardhon, until they were defeated by the Éothéod who rode to Gondor's aid.
In the War of the Ring, the Easterlings were among the fiercest warriors deployed at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields by Sauron.
Not all the Men who remained east of the Blue Mountains and Misty Mountains during the First Age were tempted by Morgoth or Sauron, and they were joined after the War of Wrath by those of the Edain who did not wish to travel to Númenor. The Northmen who dwelt in Greenwood the Great and other parts of Rhovanion were friendly to the Dúnedain, being for the most part their kin, and many of them became Gondorian subjects. The Men of Dale and Esgaroth were Northmen, as were the Woodsmen of Mirkwood, the tribe of skin-changers later known as Beornings, and the Éothéod, who became the Rohirrim or Horse Lords.
When Elendil founded the Kingdom of Arnor, its borders were quickly extended towards the river Greyflood (Sindarin: Gwathló), and Gondor likewise extended up through Enedwaith. In Enedwaith and Minhiriath (Sindarin for Land between the Rivers) lived a group of Men related to those Men that became the House of Haleth, and they were known as the Dunlendings. They had lived in the great woods that covered most of Eriador, and when the Númenóreans started to chop these woods down to build their ships in the Second Age, they earned the hostility of the Dunlendings. The Dunlendings later became bitter enemies of Rohan, as they believed the Rohirrim had stolen their lands.
Because of their enmity with the Rohirrim, the Dunlendings served Saruman in the War of the Ring and fought against the Horse Lords in the Battle of the Hornburg.
Another group of Men were the Drúedain, also called the Woses. They were small and stooped, and were always few in number and shortlived compared to other races of Men. They lived among the House of Haleth in the First Age, and were held as Edain by the Elves, who called them Drúedain (from Drûg, their own name for themselves, plus Edain).
At the end of the Third Age a few Woses still lived in the Drúadan Forest. They held off Orcs with poisoned arrows and were vital in securing the aid of the Rohirrim in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. King Elessar granted the Drúadan Forest to them "forever" in the Fourth Age.
Hobbits were strictly a race of Men rather than a separate species. The origin of Hobbits is obscure; they first appeared in the records of other Men in the middle of the Third Age.
Tolkien employed a peculiar usage of the words Man and Mannish: these terms came to replace the word "human" found in drafts of The Lord of the Rings.[8] It has been suggested that Tolkien might have preferred Man and Mannish being pure Germanic roots, unlike the Latin-influenced Human (cf. homo).[9] This usage also reflects old Germanic practice, where Man originally meant mankind, not merely the male gender; this was found (and in many of them, still is found) in all the Germanic languages (i.e. German Menschen, "people").[10]
Other names
The Elves called the race of Mankind with poetic names that refer to their later coming, and their mortality. They are mostly called Atani in Quenya, literally meaning "Second ones" (the Elves being the First), but also Hildor ("Followers" or "Aftercomers"), Apanónar ("Afterborn"), Secondborn, Younger Children of Ilúvatar, Strangers and Usurpers[11] because they dominated Arda after the Elves. Sindarin names were Ephedyn or Aphadrim ("Followers").[12]
The name Atani is cognate with Sindarin Edain, but the latter term was later applied not to the race, but only to the peoples of Beleriand who aided the Elves in their war with Morgoth in the First Age.
Other names were Fírimar (Q. Mortals),[11][13] Engwar (Q. "The Sickly"), used to describe the mortality of men[11] the Self-cursed and the Guests[11] because their fate was outside Arda.
Other names by the Elves, apparently referring to their differences from themselves are Inscrutable, the Heavy-handed, the Night-fearers, and the Children of the Sun[11] because they awoke with the Sun.
Hobbits called them the Big People or the Big Folk, especially in Bree.[14]
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A, "The Númenorean Kings", "Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The Drúedain"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), Unfinished Tales, "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Peoples of Middle-earth, "Of Dwarves and Men", p. 310.
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, "Words, Phrases and Passages in Various Tongues in The Lord of the Rings", in Parma Eldalamberon XVII (edited by Christopher Gilson), p. 89
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Silmarillion, "Quenta Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Peoples of Middle-earth, "II. The Appendix on Languages", p. 61
- ↑ Peter Gilliver, Edmund Weiner and Jeremy Marshall, The Ring of Words: Tolkien and the Oxford English Dictionary, pp. 156-8
- ↑ http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=man&allowed_in_frame=0
- ↑ 11.0 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Silmarillion, "Quenta Silmarillion: Of Men"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The War of the Jewels, "Part Four. Quendi and Eldar"
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, "Words, Phrases and Passages in Various Tongues in The Lord of the Rings", in Parma Eldalamberon XVII (edited by Christopher Gilson), p. 70
- ↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony"


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Be safe in your home
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For further questions and assistance, please contact us.


text:
OnPoint: MSD's Leaky Servers
629 Responses
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Holy crapola. Word.
I'm really shocked to read this, its appalling that information about vulnerable people is so freely available. Good on you Keith for drawing attention to this situation. Happy to support independent journalism.
Holy shit.
I'm also aghast at the implication that any WINZ / MSD staff member can see sensitive information held by another unit. Have they no concept of information security? Do they not care that there have been prosecutions of their staff for committing fraud based on the internal information, and still done nothing to do basic folder / directory security?
Crimes Act s252 (1) "Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally accesses, directly or indirectly, any computer system without authorisation, knowing that he or she is not authorised to access that computer system, or being reckless as to whether or not he or she is authorised to access that computer system."
Did you get any legal advice before a) breaching the security of the MSD systems, b) putting up this post?
You got a response from WINZ on a Sunday?
That was the 2nd thought that occurred, after the obligatory wtf?
I'm worried about how short the administrator passwords are. It almost looks like they're the same as the registered owner, altiris.
Thomas, I would love to see them go after him for this. LOVE TO. He may well have technically broken the law but public opinion if they tried to charge him for it could get very messy.
And yeah, I've seen statistics that suggest a significant amount if not the majority of benefit fraud is committed by MSD staff, so the fact that the staff can access this stuff is pretty horrifying in and of itself.
I'm pretty sure I know why this happened... Some bright spark decided because people had to print this CVs they had to be on the network.
Now why that data wasn't locked down tighter than the safe at the nakatomi plaza is anyones guess. I expect this will be big news thanks to ACC
...yippie kaiay mother fucker
A) What Thomas said. My immediate reaction is "wow Keith you could end up in a lot of trouble". Bravo!
B) I'm sadly not very surprised. I'm surprised the kiosks can see the data, but I'm not surprised by the shitty internal security. These departments spend hours and millions making sure their users can't access Twitter, but couldn't give a crap if a file server is one click away from unauthorized access.
Fucking. Hell.
I cannot believe this. This is sysadmin 101. What the fuck were they thinking?
My experience with VMs is limited but I think the data you show is significant, especially the clear text password. Without command line or explorer access, I think you'd have had difficulty launching them but you could possibly have copied them to a large enough USB key for off-site study. But FFS their firewall is a virtual server on the corporate network??? Surely not!
Mind blown.
Well done you.
Nigel McNie, in reply to
Thomas, don't be silly. He asked the servers if they would give him the information and they said 'OK!'
Chris Miller, in reply to
Agree Nigel, I don't know that you can really call it breaching the servers! He went to the File menu of a public computer and clicked Open File. Mega hax there. If he wasn't supposed to have it, surely they wouldn't have put it there, as I'm sure plenty of lawyers would argue.
They contained sound recordings which I couldn't open, but which I suspect (for various reasons) are NOT complete recording of calls.
When you phone the W&I call centre, there's always a message that says calls may be recorded "for our purposes". I assume those sound files are the result of such a recording. I'm still very intrigued to know what these 'purposes' are.
BTW, you know what's almost as scandalous as this network sharing issue? The W&I kiosks block access to Google Docs/Drive, which surely is an extremely valuable tool for a job seeker with no home computer.
I just hope someone somewhere has still got the cover your ass email/memo where they pointed this lack of security out years ago but were told the solutions were too expensive.
I don't think there are enough /facepalm gifs in the world to express my feelings right now.
I mean, I've worked in some sloppy/cack-handed corporate IT environments in my time, but this...
And also, someone ask Bradley Ambrose if he thinks the govt would need a cut and dry case before sicking the cops onto Keith out of embarrasment and the need to shoot the messenger.
I think it would be a PR disaster, so I hope you don't mind that I'm kind of rooting for them to give it a shot, Keith.
I'll donate a little bit more to your legal fund if they do though.
Wow! In theory you could have copied the hyper-v folders and stood them up with very little effort on any other machine. I'd like to assume they have some form of encryption on the network/virtual disks to stop that happening but it appears that's not the case.
This is IT security 101. You can have them all connected to the corporate network (although why you wouldn't have them in their own workgroup/domain is beyond me) you just make sure the user account associated to the kiosk machines can't see anything other than itself and a printer. The fact that the network and it's shares are open internally is extremely poor work on the sys admins behalf.
If I'm not mistaken the kiosk machines have full access to the internet too which could be exploited pretty easily. As I'm typing I realise that this is probably how the files were copied off the machine.
nzlemming, in reply to
James Harden, in reply to
Phone recordings are used for quality assurance, training and in investigations of complaints or fraud. It's pretty much as you'd expect from any call centre. Remember, you are entitled to request a copy of a recording of you via the Privacy Act.
mark taslov, in reply to
For sure.
Chris Miller, in reply to
Or from the WINZ kiosk, apparently.
From the NBR article this evening it states - "A security issue was raised with us during the establishment phase for these kiosks. This was investigated and the system was rebuilt soon after. " - so in theory someone has looked at these kiosks twice (at least) and thought they were all good.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.


text:
Rahm Emanuel on EducationDemocratic Rep. (IL-5); Chief of Staff-Designee | |
EMANUEL: To the larger economy, the biggest thing that is happening is a skills deficit that inhibits us from doing what we need to do. Having a four-year college degree or better is key. I am not for this [smiles mischievously], but B.P. in Indiana is expanding a huuuuuge refinery. They are bringing in people from Alabama and Kentucky because we don't have enough pipefitters up here
Q: This isn't an issue where you seem angry, yelling that Wall Street needs to pay.
EMANUEL: Look, I am not defending Wall Street. Wall Street has screwed up enough. But let me answer it this way: Wall Street is not to blame that we had a 7% graduation rate in city community colleges. I fixed it--it is now 14%. I doubled it in two years. Wall Street is not responsible for that. We allowed the colleges to deteriorate.
The situation was unfair and unsustainable. So Mayor Emanuel canceled the teacher's pay raise. "I can't, in good conscience, continue an implicit understanding between parties that left our children on the side of the road," Emanuel declared. "I will not accept our children continuing to get the shaft."
Not only did Emanuel cancel the pay raise, he also demanded a series of reforms, such as lengthening the school day (at 5 hours and 45 minutes, Chicago's elementary schools had the shortest day of any urban district in the country), modest changes in health care, an expansion of charter schools, and merit pay.
And we need to transform the weakest link in our education system: high school. A nation with many of the best colleges on earth must no longer tolerate having some of the worst high schools.
Our current school year wasn't designed for the Information Age; it's a remnant of our agrarian past. We need to increase the amount of time young people spend learning--by lengthening the school day, extending the school year, and keeping young people engaged in learning over the course of the summer.
Although the US is justly proud of having the finest system of colleges and universities in the world, the rest of the world seems to understand the value of college better than we do. America was once first in the world in college enrollment. Now we rank ninth. We're also the only industrialized country not to increase its college graduation rate in the last twenty years.
College is vital to our individual economic success, our collective economic survival, and, above all, our faith in a better future. Yet instead of spreading this miracle of college, Washington let it be priced out of most American's reach. Yet the Bush administration pushed the largest cut in college aid in history, and failed to keep its promise to significantly increase Pell Grants
Proponents support voting YES because:
Rep. OBEY: This bill, more than any other, determines how willing we are to make the investment necessary to assure the future strength of this country and its working families. The President has chosen to cut the investments in this bill by more than $7.5 billion in real terms. This bill rejects most of those cuts.
Opponents recommend voting NO because:
Rep. LEWIS: This bill reflects a fundamental difference in opinion on the level of funding necessary to support the Federal Government's role in education, health and workforce programs. The bill is $10.2 billion over the President's budget request. While many of these programs are popular on both sides of the aisle, this bill contains what can rightly be considered lower priority & duplicative programs. For example, this legislation continues three different programs that deal with violence prevention. An omnibus bill is absolutely the wrong and fiscally reckless approach to completing this year's work. It would negate any semblance of fiscal discipline demonstrated by this body in recent years.
Veto message from President Bush:
This bill spends too much. It exceeds [by $10.2 billion] the reasonable and responsible levels for discretionary spending that I proposed to balance the budget by 2012. This bill continues to fund 56 programs that I proposed to terminate because they are duplicative, narrowly focused, or not producing results. This bill does not sufficiently fund programs that are delivering positive outcomes. This bill has too many earmarks--more than 2,200 earmarks totaling nearly $1 billion. I urge the Congress to send me a fiscally responsible bill that sets priorities.
Proponents support voting YES because:
I believe that our Pledge of Allegiance with its use of the phrase "under God" is entirely consistent with our Nation's cultural and historic traditions. I also believe that the Court holding that use of this phrase is unconstitutional is wrong. But this court-stripping bill is not necessary. This legislation would bar a Federal court, including the Supreme Court, from reviewing any claim that challenges the recitation of the Pledge on first amendment grounds.
If we are a Nation of laws, we must be committed to allowing courts to decide what the law is. This bill is unnecessary and probably unconstitutional. It would contradict the principle of Marbury v. Madison, intrude on the principles of separation of powers, and degrade our independent Federal judiciary.
Opponents support voting NO because:
I was disappointed 4 years ago when two judges of the Ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that our Pledge, our statement of shared national values, was somehow unconstitutional. I do not take legislation that removes an issue from the jurisdiction of this court system lightly. This legislation is appropriate, however, because of the egregious conduct of the courts in dealing with the Pledge of Allegiance.
By striking "under God" from the Pledge, the Court has shown contempt for the Congress which approved the language, and, more importantly, shows a complete disregard for the millions of Americans who proudly recite the Pledge as a statement of our shared national values and aspirations. No one is required to recite the Pledge if they disagree with its message.
Create World-Class Public Schools
Now more than ever, quality public education is the key to equal opportunity and upward mobility in America. Yet our neediest children often attend the worst schools. While lifting the performance of all schools, we must place special emphasis on strengthening those institutions serving, and too often failing, low-income students.
To close this achievement and opportunity gap, underperforming public schools need more resources, and above all, real accountability for results. Accountability means ending social promotion, measuring student performance with standards-based assessments, and testing teachers for subject-matter competency.
As we demand accountability, we should ensure that every school has the resources needed to achieve higher standards, including safe and modern physical facilities, well-paid teachers and staff, and opportunities for remedial help after school and during summers. Parents, too, must accept greater responsibility for supporting their children�s education.
We need greater choice, competition, and accountability within the public school system, not a diversion of public funds to private schools that are unaccountable to taxpayers. With research increasingly showing the critical nature of learning in the early years, we should move toward universal access to pre-kindergarten education.
The National Education Association has a long, proud history as the nation's leading organization committed to advancing the cause of public education. Founded in 1857 "to elevate the character and advance the interests of the profession of teaching and to promote the cause of popular education in the United States," the NEA has remained constant in its commitment to its original mission as evidenced by the current mission statement:
To fulfill the promise of a democratic society, the National Education Association shall promote the cause of quality public education and advance the profession of education; expand the rights and further the interest of educational employees; and advocate human, civil, and economic rights for all.In pursuing its mission, the NEA has determined that it will focus the energy and resources of its 2.7 million members toward the "promotion of public confidence in public education." The ratings are based on the votes the organization considered most important; the numbers reflect the percentage of time the representative voted the organization's preferred position.
| |
Other big-city mayors on Education: | Rahm Emanuel on other issues: |
Tom Barrett (D,Milwaukee) Bill de Blasio (D,NYC) Rahm Emanuel (D,Chicago) Bob Filner (D,San Diego) Steven Fulop (D,Jersey City) Eric Garcetti (D,Los Angeles) Mike Rawlings (D,Dallas) Marty Walsh (D,Boston) Former Mayors: Rocky Anderson (I,Salt Lake City) Tom Barrett (D,Milwaukee,WI) Mike Bloomberg (I,New York City) Cory Booker (D,Newark,NJ) Jerry Brown (D,Oakland,CA) Julian Castro (D,San Antonio,TX) Rudy Giuliani (R,New York City) Phil Gordon (D,Phoenix) Tom Menino (D,Boston) Dennis Kucinch (D,Cleveland,OH) Michael Nutter (D,Philadelphia) Sarah Palin (R,Wasilla,AK) Annise Parker (D,Houston) Jerry Sanders (R,San Diego) Antonio Villaraigosa (D,Los Angeles) |
Budget/Economy Civil Rights Corporations Crime Drugs Education Energy/Oil Environment Families/Children Foreign Policy Free Trade Govt. Reform Gun Control Health Care Homeland Security Immigration Infrastructure/Technology Jobs Principles/Values Social Security Tax Reform War/Iraq/Mideast Welfare/Poverty |


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We reserve the right, in its sole discretion, to reject, refuse to post or remove any posts (including email) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the mobile application and website and/or Services at any time, for any or no reason, with or without prior notice, and without liability.
If you consent to receive commercial/ marketing email, text, and other messages from us and agree that we may use your email address, phone number, and other personal information for the purpose of initiating commercial messages, you will be able to opt-out later.
We also collect your email address at the time of registration. Once the email is confirmed we send transactional emails depending on specific actions. Such as; when someone sends/ accepts your friendship request, sends you a message, visits and/ or likes your profile, comments on your photo etc. These emails are to notify you of said actions and are separate from email marketing and promotional emails. If you want to opt-out of these emails you can do so easily from your account settings.
Go to Account settings--> Email Notifications.
From there you may disable types of emails you would like to stop receiving.
We reserve the right to change these Terms of Service at any time. We will notify you through your confirmed email address or within the mobile app and website. You are responsible for keeping yourself apprised of any such changes if you dismiss these notifications. If you object to any Terms of Service or any subsequent changes or you become dissatisfied with our Services in any way, your only option is to delete your account. Your continued use of our Services after we post revised Terms of Service means that you agree to the revisions. You must be at least 18 years old to download our Services. By requesting to use, or using our Services, you represent and warrant that you are not required to register as a sex offender with any government entity.
Our Services are free, but your Internet provider's or mobile operator's fees and rates may still apply. However, we do have in-app purchases that you can buy if you want to use some of our extra features.
You may sign in using your email, Google account or your Facebook account. If you use your Facebook account to sign in, you authorize us to access and use your Facebook account information, including but not limited to your public Facebook profile and information about Facebook friends you share in common with other Waplog users. You can read more on our Privacy Policy, which has detailed information on what information is used.
We may collect information about your actions on the Services. This may include information such as the pages and profiles you view, how you use the Services, your Coin balance, and purchases you make through the Services such as Boosts, Coins, VIP etc. It can also include the various functions and features that you use, such as the connections you make, other friends or contacts you invite to the Services and profile searches you perform, how often you log in and with what/ which platform you log in from, your IP address and how many profiles you have created, or your use of our applications. Read more on our Privacy Policy.
4.1. You understand and agree that our Services may review and delete any content, message, photo, profile, video, sound, musical work, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that is in the sole judgment of us.
4.2. You are solely responsible for the Content that you publish or display (hereinafter, "post") on the Service or any material or information that you transmit to other Members.
4.3. By posting any Content to the public areas of the mobile application and website, you hereby grant us the non-exclusive, fully paid, worldwide license to use, reproduce, publicly perform and display such Content on the mobile application and website, including without limitation distributing part or all of the mobile application and website in any media formats and through any media channels. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on the mobile application and website or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) your Content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyright rights, or other intellectual property rights of any person. You agree to pay all royalties and fees owing any person by reason of any Content you post on the mobile application and website.
4.4. The following is a partial list of the kind of Content that is illegal or prohibited on the mobile application and website. We reserve the right to investigate and take appropriate legal action in its sole discretion against anyone who violates this provision, including without limitation, removing the offending communication from the Service and terminating the membership of such violators.
Prohibited Content includes Content that:
i. is patently offensive and promotes racism, sexism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual, any content that is obscene, pornographic or otherwise may offend human dignity.
ii. Harasses or advocates harassment of another person or contains language which could be deemed offensive or is likely to harass, upset, embarrass, alarm or annoy any other person;
iii. involves the transmission of "junk mail", "chain letters," or unsolicited mass mailing or "spamming" or pyramid scams;
iv. promotes information that you know is false or misleading or promotes illegal activities or conduct that is abusive, threatening, obscene, defamatory or libelous;
v. promotes an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's copyrighted work, such as providing pirated computer programs or links to them, providing information to circumvent manufacture-installed copy-protect devices, or providing pirated music or links to pirated music files;
vi. contains restricted or password only access pages or hidden pages or images (those not linked to or from another accessible page);
vii. provides material that exploits people under the age of 18 in a sexual or violent manner, or solicits personal information from anyone under 18;
viii. provides instructional information about illegal activities such as making or buying illegal weapons, violating someone's privacy, providing or creating computer viruses;
ix. solicits passwords or personal identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes from other users; or
x. involves commercial activities and/or sales without our prior written consent such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, or pyramid schemes.
4.5. You must use the Service in a manner consistent with any and all applicable laws and regulations.
4.6. You may not include in your publicly accessible Member profile any telephone numbers, street addresses, last names, URLs, usernames from any social platforms or email addresses.
4. 7. You may not engage in advertising to or solicitation of, any Member to buy or sell any products or services through the Service. You may not transmit any chain letters or junk email to other Members. Although we cannot monitor the conduct of its Members off the mobile application and website, it is also a violation of these rules to use any information obtained from the Service in order to harass, abuse, or harm another person, or in order to contact, advertise to, solicit, or sell to any Member without their prior explicit consent. In order to protect our Members from such advertising or solicitation, we reserve the right to restrict the number of messages which a Member may send to other Members in any period to a number which we deem appropriate in its sole discretion.
4.8. You may not attempt to impersonate another user or a person.
We reserve the right to investigate, suspend and/or terminate your account if you have misused the Service or behaved in a way we regard as inappropriate or unlawful, including actions or communications that occur off the Service but involve users you meet through the Service. The following is a partial list of the type of actions that you may not engage in with respect to the Service. You will not:
We reserve the right to freeze your account if we see that your actual location is different from the location you provided, or your IP address changes continuously varying between countries. You agree that all information that you submit upon creation of your account, including information submitted from your Facebook account, is accurate and truthful and you have the right to post the Content on the Service and grant the license to Waplog. You understand and agree that we may monitor or review any Content you post as part of a Service. We may delete any Content, in whole or in part, that in our sole judgment violates this Agreement or may harm the reputation of the Service.
In consideration for Waplog allowing you to use the Services, you agree that we, our affiliates, and our third-party partners may place advertising on the Services. By submitting suggestions or feedback to us regarding our Services, you agree that we may use and share such feedback for any purpose without compensating you.
You agree that we may access, preserve and disclose your account information and Content if required to do so by law or in a good faith belief that such access, preservation or disclosure is reasonably necessary, such as to (i) comply with legal process; (ii) enforce this Agreement; (iii) respond to claims that any Content violates the rights of third parties; (iv) respond to your requests for customer service; or (v) protect the rights, property or personal safety of the Company or any other person.
Though we strive to encourage a respectful user experience, it is not responsible for the conduct of any user on or off of the Services. You agree to use caution in all interactions with other users, particularly if you decide to communicate off the Service or meet in person. You should not provide your financial information (for example, your credit card or bank account information), wire or otherwise send money, to other users. You are solely responsible for your interactions with other Members. We reserve the right but have no obligation, to monitor disputes between you and other Members.
You may not engage in any activity involving spam on our Services. Violations of this policy may result in immediate termination of service and legal action against any spammer. Accordingly, you may not upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available junk mail, commercial advertisements, or any other form of commercial solicitation on our Services. Violations of this policy could subject you or your agents to civil and criminal penalties.
We are always striving to improve the Services and bring you the additional functionality that you will find useful. This means we may add new product features or enhancements from time to time as well as remove some features, and if these actions do not materially affect your rights or obligations, we may not provide you with notice before taking them. We may even suspend the Services entirely, in which event we will notify you in advance unless extenuating circumstances, such as safety or security concerns, prevent us from doing so. You may terminate your account at any time, for any reason. We may terminate your account at any time without notice if we believe that you have violated this Agreement.
Membership in the Service is void where prohibited. By using the mobile application and website and the Service, you represent and warrant that all registration information you submit is truthful and accurate. You represent and warrant that you are 18 years of age or older and that your use of the Service shall not violate any applicable laws or regulations. Your profile may be deleted without warning if it is found that you are misrepresenting your age. Your Membership is solely for your personal use, and you shall not authorize others to use your account, including your profile or email address. You are solely responsible for all Content published or displayed through your account, including any email messages, and for your interactions with other members.
You may purchase a subscription product (such as VIP, VIP GOLD) in various packages, such as one-month, three-month, or six-month subscriptions. For all mobile subscriptions, payment will be charged to your iTunes or Google account when you confirm your purchase. Your subscription will renew automatically for the same amount of time as your original subscription unless you switch off the auto-renew feature at least 24 hours before the end of your current subscription. This is because your account may be charged for renewal within 24 hours prior to the end of your current subscription period. You can manage your subscription and switch off auto-renewal by accessing your iTunes or Google account settings. You may not cancel your current subscription during the subscription period, although you may cancel automatic renewal at any time.
Both Apple and Google facilitate "50% OFF" of subscription products (such as VIP) for first-time users, and we take advantage of that ability. For example, from time to time we offer a free initial week to our first-time VIP subscribers. Eligibility for any such trial is limited to users who have not previously subscribed to our VIP subscription, through either a current or prior Waplog account. If you are a previous Waplog VIP subscriber and try to claim a discount, you should be aware that Apple or Google may recognize your ineligibility. If so, you may not receive a discount, but instead may be charged immediately for your first subscription month. This is a feature controlled by the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store, depending on which platform you use for our Services.
Purchases of Subscriptions are non-refundable and non-transferable, even if they expire or are discontinued. We may change the purchase price for Subscriptions at any time, as well as the features included in Subscriptions. We reserve the right to stop issuing Subscriptions at any time and to set expiration dates for Subscriptions. Subscriptions may not be redeemed for any sum of money or monetary value.
When you purchase or receive Virtual Currency products such as Coins, Points, etc you do not own them. Instead, you receive a limited right to use them for eligible services and merchandise on our Services such as VIP, etc. You agree that we will have no liability to you based on the exercise of our rights with respect to points, coins, etc.
You may use Coins to boost your account, unlock locked stories, add stories for other users, etc. The price for each in-app purchase item will be displayed at the point of purchase. We do not offer refunds for any purchased in-app purchase items. We are not responsible for repairing or replacing in-app purchase items or providing you with any credit or refund in the event that we modify, suspend, or terminate any in-app purchase item programs, or for loss or damage due to any service error, or any other reason. Purchases of Virtual Currency may not be sub-licensed and are non-refundable and non-transferable, even if they expire or are revoked or discontinued. We may change the purchase price for Virtual Currency at any time, as well as the ways you can use Virtual Currency. We reserve the right to revoke or stop issuing Virtual Currency at any time without notice, refund, or compensation, and to set expiration dates for Virtual Currency. Virtual Currency may not be redeemed for any sum of money or monetary value. If you delete your account or your account is terminated for any reason, you will lose all accumulated and unused Virtual Currency (Coins, Points, etc.) without refund or other compensation. You agree that we will have no liability to you based on the exercise of our rights with respect to Virtual Currency.
Purchases of Subscriptions are non-refundable and non-transferable, even if they expire or are discontinued. We may change the purchase price for Subscriptions at any time, as well as the features included in Subscriptions. We reserve the right to stop issuing Subscriptions at any time and to set expiration dates for Subscriptions. Subscriptions may not be redeemed for any sum of money or monetary value.
To Redeem your points, you will have to verify your account from appropriate pages. If your account is not fully verified, you may not redeem your Points. All unused in-app purchase items in your account are forfeited if you delete your account or your account is terminated, banned, or suspended for any reason.
a) Paid Services
Paid Services may be purchased through your accounts with certain third-parties, such as your Apple iTunes account or your Google Play account (a "Third Party Account"). If you purchase any Paid Services through a Third-Party Account, billing for these Paid Services will appear through your Third-Party Account. You should review the Third-Party Account's Terms of Service, which we do not control.
If you purchase a subscription through a third-party account, you will need to cancel your subscription through that third-party and in accordance with that third party's terms of Service. If you cancel your subscription, your subscription benefits will continue until the end of your then-current subscription term, but your subscription will not be renewed after that term expires. You will not be entitled to a prorated refund of any portion of the subscription fees paid for the then-current subscription term.
This Agreement shall remain in full force and effect while you use the mobile application and website and/or the Service. We may terminate your membership for any reason, at any time, without notice. If we terminate your Membership in the Service, you shall not be entitled to a refund of any unused portion of subscription fees, if any. Even after membership is terminated, this Agreement will remain in effect. our Services' Terms of Service and/or subscription fees, if any, that were provided to you at registration is subject to change if needed. By using the Service and becoming a Member, you acknowledge that we reserve the right to charge for the Service and has the right to terminate a Member's Membership, should a Member breach this Agreement or fail to pay for the Service if necessary, as required by this Agreement. Standard usage charges for SMS, MMS, and other data charges may apply and may be billed on your wireless service bill or deducted from your prepaid balance.
We are not responsible for any incorrect or inaccurate Content posted on the mobile application and website or in connection with the Service provided, whether caused by users of the mobile application and website, Members or by any of the equipment or programming associated with or utilized in the Service. We are not responsible for the conduct, whether online or offline, of any user of the mobile application and website or Member of the Service. We assume no responsibility for any error, omission, interruption, deletion, defect, delay in operation or transmission, communications line failure, theft or destruction or unauthorized access to, or alteration of, any user or Member communication. our Services is not responsible for any problems or technical malfunction of any telephone network or lines, computer online systems, wireless phones or other devices, servers or providers, computer equipment, software, failure of any email or players due to technical problems or traffic congestion on the Internet or at any mobile application and website or combination thereof, including any injury or damage to users and/or Members or to any person's computer related to or resulting from participation or downloading materials in connection with the mobile application and website and/or in connection with the Service. Under no circumstances shall Services be responsible for any loss or damage, including personal injury or death, resulting from the use of the mobile application and website or the Service or from any Content posted on the mobile application and website or transmitted to Members, or any interactions between users of the mobile application and website, whether online or offline. The mobile application and website and the Service are provided "AS-IS" and Services expressly disclaims any warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or non-infringement. Waplog cannot guarantee and does not promise any specific results from use of the mobile application and website and/or the Service. We take no responsibility for third-party advertisements which are posted on Service's mobile application and website or through the Service, nor does it take any responsibility for the goods or services provided by its advertisers.
Software from this mobile application and website (the "Software") is further subject to United States export controls. No Software may be downloaded from the mobile application and website or otherwise exported or re-exported (i) into (or to a national or resident of) Cuba, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Iran, Syria, or any other Country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods; or (ii) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Commerce Department's Table of Deny Orders. By downloading or using the Software, you represent and warrant that you are not located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any such country or on any such list.
You agree that any dispute relating in any way to these Terms of Service or Waplog including without limitation your or third-parties' access to or use of our Services, will be resolved by binding arbitration and not through litigation in any court (except in small claims court if the claim is within the court's jurisdiction and proceeds on an individual basis). Claims are subject to arbitration, regardless of what they are based on or whether they seek legal or equitable remedies. Arbitration applies to any and all such claims or disputes, whether they arose in the past, may currently exist, or may arise in the future.
You agree to indemnify and hold Waplog and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, and other partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third-party due to or arising out of your use of the Service in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above.
There is no agency, partnership, joint venture, employee-employer or franchisor-franchisee relationship between Waplog and any User of the Service.
The mobile application and website is for the personal use of Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except those that are specifically endorsed or approved by the management of our Services. Illegal and/or unauthorized use of the mobile application and website will be investigated. Commercial advertisements, affiliate links, and other forms of solicitation may be removed from member profiles without notice and may result in termination of membership privileges. Appropriate legal action will be taken by Service for any illegal or unauthorized use of the mobile application and website.
Waplog provides assistance and guidance through its customer care representatives. When communicating with our customer care representatives, you agree not to be abusive, obscene, profane, offensive, sexist, threatening, harassing, racially offensive, or not to behave inappropriately. If we feel that your behavior towards any of our customer care representatives or other employees is at any time threatening or offensive, we reserve the right to immediately terminate your account.
We make no warranty that our Services will meet your requirements, or will be uninterrupted, timely, secure and error-free. We make no warranty that the results obtained from us will be accurate or reliable. We make no warranty that the quality of products, Services, information, material or purchased features obtained through our Services will meet your expectations. Any of downloaded or obtained material through our Services is done at your own risk. You will be solely responsible for any damage to your or others' devices directly or indirectly from the download of any such material. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of such warranties or the limitation or the exclusion of liability for incidental or consequential damages. Some of the limitations of warranty may not apply to you. In such cases, the warranties and liability will be limited to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law.
You may not post, distribute, or reproduce in any way any copyrighted material, trademarks, or other proprietary information without obtaining the prior written consent of the owner of such proprietary rights. It is the policy of our Services to terminate membership privileges of any member who repeatedly infringes copyright upon prompt notification to Service by the copyright owner or the copyright owner's legal agent. Without limiting the foregoing, if you believe that your work has been copied and posted on our Services in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide our Designated Copyright Agent with the following information: (i) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (ii) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed; (iii) a description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on our Services; (iv) your address, telephone number, and email address; (v) a written statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; (vi) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. Our Services' Designated Copyright Agent for notice of claims of copyright infringement can be reached as follows: firstname.lastname@example.com
We do not currently conduct criminal background screenings on our Members. We reserve the right, however, to conduct any criminal background check we deem appropriate, at any time and using available public records. By agreeing to these Terms of Service, you hereby authorize any such check.
You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the username and password you designate during the registration process, and you are solely responsible for all activities that occur under your username and password. You agree to immediately notify us of any disclosure or unauthorized use of your username or password or any other breach of security at firstname.lastname@example.com and ensure that you log out from your account at the end of each session.
Your correspondence or dealings with, or participation in promotions of, advertisers found on or through our Services, including payment and delivery of goods or services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties or representations associated with such dealings, are solely between you and the advertiser. We will not be liable to you for any failure by an advertiser to provide any service or product you ordered from it.
The sites linked to by the Waplog mobile application and website are developed by people over whom we exercise no control Waplog cannot and does not screen the sites. Some people may find these sites objectionable, inappropriate, or offensive. We cannot guarantee that our Services will not link to unintended or objectionable content and assume no responsibility for the content of any site linked to by the Services.
In no event shall our Services be liable to you or any third-party for any indirect, consequential, exemplary, incidental, special or punitive damages including lost profit damages arising from your use of the mobile application and website or the Service even if our Services have been advised of the possibility of such damages.
Waplog's liability to you for any cause, whatsoever and regardless of the form of the action, will at all times be limited to the amount paid, if any, by you to us for the Service during the term of Membership.
This Agreement is accepted upon your use of the mobile application and website and is further affirmed by you becoming a Member of the Service. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between you and Waplog regarding the use of the mobile application and website and/or the Service. The failure of Waplog to exercise or enforce any right or provision of this Agreement shall not operate as a waiver of such right or provision. The section titles in this Agreement are for convenience only and have no legal or contractual effect. Please, contact us with any questions regarding this Agreement. Waplog is a trademark of VLMedia. I have read this Agreement and agree to all of the provisions contained above.