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Just because KDE has been designed to be portable across Linux,
FreeBSD and other UNIX/X11 environments for an age now, doesn't
mean we aren't up for the occasional challenge. With version 4, Trolltech released Qt for the
Mac, Windows and now even embedded environments under the GPL.
Since Qt is the base upon which KDE is developed, KDE is now free to
offer native support for these platforms. Today I am focusing on the KDE/Mac developments for KDE 4. Read on for the details.
Before I begin, I'd like to discuss some branding issues that KDE has had to face in previous releases. With KDE 3, does the term "KDE" refer to the Desktop Environment (KWin, Kicker, kdesktop, etc.) and if so, would it still be reasonable to refer to the Mac OS X port as "KDE" even if it was without these key desktop components? Or, is "KDE" a reference to the project as a whole, in which case we can still call Konqueror a "KDE application" whether it is running on Mac, Windows, or in Enlightenment...
These are some branding issues that have been discussed for KDE 4. The resulting decision has been to refer to "KDE" as the umbrella that refers to all things KDE. So, as a result, we have KDE Applications, the KDE Development Environment (libraries and technologies), and the KDE Workspace (this consists of KWin, Plasma, etc.) that refer to the three main components that make up the collection of KDE software. When referring to just "KDE" by itself, you therefore refer to all things KDE.
This also solves some issues with alternate release schedules for some applications. For example, Amarok has often released on a different schedule from KDE, and so some people have not considered it as part of KDE proper. Amarok for KDE 4 will be more clearly labelled as a "KDE Application" without the related implications of it being restricted to a given desktop environment. In KDE 4, Amarok is a KDE product, even if it is based on its own release cycle. As Amarok lead developer Mark Kretschmann says, "If Amarok convinces more people to use KDE technologies, that's perfect. If they use Amarok under other desktop environments like GNOME or Mac OS X, that's still nice for us."
Since this article deals with KDE on other platforms than X11, we need a way to distinguish between KDE for X11 and KDE for Mac. So, with the approval of some of the developers, I'm going to use the following terminology: KDE/X11 will refer to all KDE Applications that run on X11, the Development Environment on X11, and the KDE Workspace on X11. Likewise, KDE/Mac will refer to KDE applications that run on the Mac, the KDE Development Environment on the Mac, and since the workspace is not required on the Mac, it is not included here. Ditto for Windows. It is important to realize, however, that these distinctions are based on a subset of features that are available on each platform, and that for the most part the source code is identical, and there are not separate source trees for each platform. There are no forks or haphazard ports.
New KDE Development Environment technologies like Phonon and Solid will help ease this transition, since the platform-integration work will happen at the library level. KDE Applications need not be aware of the differences that might exist in the OS platform.
What is KDE/Mac?
KDE/Mac is the collection of KDE Applications that run natively on the Mac, including the underlying technologies, libraries, etc. that make these KDE Applications work. There are only a few differences between KDE/X11 and KDE/Mac. Most notably, the KDE Workspace elements, such as KWin and Plasma are not present for the Mac. The reason for this is that the functionality of KWin and Plasma already exist in OS X in one form or another, and reimplementing them would not allow for close integration of KDE Applications alongside existing Mac Applications. So instead, KDE has elected to not port the KDE/X11 Workspace to the Mac.
Since the beginning of KDE, its applications have been designed in such a way as to peacefully co-exist in other UNIX Desktop environments. Initially this meant Window Maker, and then later GNOME and Enlightenment. The KDE Applications use shared standards (such as those crafted at FreeDesktop.org), capable of sharing clipboard data, system tray icons, and so on without any issues on these compliant platforms. Now, because of the additional portability that Qt 4 offers, this same peaceful co-existence will also be true for non-X11 environments, such as the Mac.
KDE apps have been able to run on the Mac before, using Apple's X11 server layer that is built into OS X - however, KDE was still using Qt/X11 and as such, these applications simply looked identical to how they would look in good old KDE/X11 proper. The fact that they ran at all is thanks to the excellent efforts of the Fink project. If you're interested in running other UNIX programs on OS X, check this project out.
(For a time there was also a Qt/Mac Freeware edition which allowed some experimentation with a true KDE/Mac experience within the KDE 3.x series. However, The KDE/X11 version in Fink was usually used due to its stability.)
Here's a screenshot of a KDE application as it looked using KDE 3.5 and the Fink project's packages. Click for the full version.
Because the above was developed for Qt/X11, the whole KDE environment was able to run. The downside, however, was that it did not integrate well with the Mac, so it felt like you were running two totally different computer systems on one screen. Of course, KDE is all about the integration...
KDE 4 brings great advances to the Mac porting effort, thanks mostly due to Qt 4, and the new KDE build system, based on CMake. For KDE 4, the KDE/Mac applications are downloadable as standard issue, Mac .dmg files, available from the KDE on Mac OS X website. The KDE/Mac development snapshots are among the easiest to use for any platform, thanks mostly due to the great work done by KDE/Mac guru Benjamin Reed (a.k.a. RangerRick). Visit #kde-darwin on irc.freenode.org to help report and fix anything you see that is broken. This is pre-alpha KDE 4, so it's likely to crash until more development has taken place.
Once the downloaded packages are unpacked and installed, KDE/Mac applications can be launched using OS X's Finder as shown here:
As you can see, quite a wide variety of applications are already available for the Mac, including most of the official KDE applications. Because this is a development version, some things are still broken (like any apps using SSL) and some things are just plain ugly. But the same is also true of many KDE 4 apps on KDE/X11 at this point, so expect both offerings to improve throughout the KDE 4 development timeframe.
At the same time, some very important things have occurred in KDE/Mac integration. For example, the clipboard works. Keyboard shortcuts work. Extended language input works. Some things, like drag-and-drop remain sketchy. The KDE/Mac developers would welcome any fresh talent that knows a little about KDE and Mac technologies to help solve smaller issues like this.
Here's what you've been waiting for: the screenshot tour of a few KDE 4 apps that are working on the Mac to show off some of the progress so far. Some of these apps will surely be greatly appreciated by Mac users.
Since we've covered SVG in the first issue, I figured I would show a shot of SVG-goodness in action on the Mac. Below is Shisen Sho, a tile game that shares loadable SVG tilesets with KMahjongg, which was previously featured. This game looks beautiful on the Mac, and not at all out of place.
One of the main questions asked last week about KOffice was support for other platforms. I'm pleased to say that KWord, KSpread, and the rest of the KOffice suite should run on KDE/Mac just fine. In the development version I tested, KWord performed pretty much as the KDE/X11 version from last week. Additionally, I tried loading a few other KOffice applications to see if they work. Here's a shot of KSpread's Wizard, and the KDE 4 file dialog on the Mac.
Also notice how the KSpread icon shows up in the OS X dock. This didn't previously happen with KDE on Fink (The icon to the left of it is for kded, one of the KDE background processes, which will eventually be adjusted to hide itself when running on the Mac).
Of course, the real question everyone is asking is: does Konqueror work? Yes. The KDE 4 version of the Konqueror application is mostly a port of Konqueror from KDE 3.5 at the moment, but the backend libraries such as the KHTML rendering engine and Javascript support have seen a lot of fixes and improvements. On the Mac, due to the OS X user interface styling in Qt 4, we get centred tabs during tabbed browsing, as seen below:
The Mac has made a name for itself as a premier Desktop for graphical and multimedia applications. Unfortunately, the KDE Graphics package was not included in this snapshot so I can't show it off.
However, another niche that the Mac proudly occupies is that of education. Below are two of the great applications from the KDE-Edu project: Kalzium and KStars. New features that are showing up in KDE-Edu will be featured in a later article... for now, it's just important to note that these superb applications will be available and fully functional for KDE/Mac.
And now that the tour is done, a couple of other things that come up whenever KDE is discussed on other platforms.
While I was researching this article, I encountered some people that object to running KDE apps on a non-free platform, with sentiments on IRC alike to "Anytime you run OSS on a non-free platform, God kills a puppy. A cute puppy."
But KDE has good reasons for supporting other platforms: attracting developers, and fostering interoperability and standards. There are a huge number of Mac and Windows developers out there and therefore a large amount applications that can take advantage of KDE technologies. The best example of a KDE technology benefitting from exposure to other platforms is KHTML/WebKit. As a side effect, since there are so many users of KHTML-based browsers now, websites have had to improve their standards compliance in order to be more compatible, which means more websites work in Konqueror. This will hopefully also happen with OpenDocument and free software groupware systems as KOffice and Kontact push onto other platforms.
In the meantime, have a look at yesterday's KDE Commit-Digest for some information on the progress of Windows platform support.
but beside the apple look the kde look does look not good :(
the icons in the apps shown are not the oxygen icons, are they?
Oxygen icons are entering kdelibs in SVN today, unless something changed... so future shots should show the new icons...
Yay, it's on digg frontpage now :)
Great summary, a very interesting read! Good to see things are progressing so nicely.
As for KDE Workspace -- well, while getting just the KDE Applications over to those systems is already a really kool thing, I'd personally welcome an explorer.exe shell replacement. Very much even :)
you're right though the explorer thing just is not up to _anything_ with konqueror. it has more serious security issues however so it's leading somewhere.
anyways i myself will try and look how to get this kde windows stuff to work under wine properly. that'll be phun. foss rulez so waaaay more.
explorer.exe as in the Windows shell, not as in iexplore.exe the browser. Even if KDE Workspace isn't ported, Konqueror will be just as available (at least very likely, anyway), as it is on KDE/OSX.
I like my Windows for its hardware and multimedia support and gaming (not that that happens too often!) and for some applications that I prefer over there, but I love my KDE desktop (and several KDE apps too (hi, eric3 and amarok!)) -- much enough in fact that I'm usually on linux and rather put up with the hell that's sound support in this OS.
Don't forget Reactos
It's a very sweet project and I really hope they succeed in creating an open source Windows clone; and I'm more than willing to give it a spin!
But how does that help me (and others who are in the same boat), with having a KDE desktop and running Windows software I adore (irfanview and xmplay, in particular (okay, the first one runs with Wine), but there are a bunch of others I occasionally need as well), and not having to deal with Linux's inferior hardware and multimedia support? -- because I doubt ReactOS will have kdesktop and kicker :P
I agree that an explorer replacement would be a great idea. It would be a wonderful step for people migrating to OSS, as they could have a full K Desktop Environment, but be able to easily start their remaining native Windows apps as needed, and everything would appear consistent.
However, while KDE will have a much superior taskbar, menu and file manager to Windows there would be a problem with providing all the random dialogs and stuff that Explorer is supposed to provide. The ReactOS Explorer (which can be installed on Windows XP; much better for slow machines) seems to load the libraries that the original explorer would load (I have no idea how it works internally, but it certainly produces some windows which look just like the equivalents from the normal explorer). That would be a whole lot of extra work above just making things work on Windows.
Also, will Vista allow the shell to be changed? It's coming out very soon and everyone is going to "upgrade", regardless of the problems/benefits.
Troy, you are doing an awesome job with this "Road" series! I really love them, and they show what is indeed happening in the KDE development. It gets more people interested in KDE, and it finally shows the first real impressions of KDE 4 - some KDE users need this while they are waiting for KDE 4 ;)
I'm really looking forward for your next article.
Yay, Winnipeg!
I would content the more application (like firefox and OpenOffice) you can get people to use, the less reason they have to hold onto a closed source system.
If you want to build a wall and not let any closed source users in, you could certainly do that to your own detriment. I would contend this wouldn't be useful in the long term.
You should let you work stand on its merits not on it association.
I agree with your post, I would also like to add 2 points:
1) KDE already ran on closed source systems: UNIX. It has ran in solaris way before it was open sourced, and it runs on other UNIX variants. If indeed they wanted to prevent KDE from running in closed sourced systems, these "ports" should be killed as well.
2) Why is it KDE's goal to promote free software? KDE goal should be to promote KDE, which happens to be free software. Porting it to as many platforms as possible is a great way to make kde more popular.
You would be wrong. While the idea of porting open source applications to closed source environments DOES sound like it would attract people to OS platforms... there is overwhelming statistical evidence to show otherwise.
For example, the easiest way to get OS applications on a non-OS platform is by running OSX. By your theory, Apple users would be some of the quickest converts to open source operating systems. But the reality is that people are LEAVING open source to use OSX; in fairly sizable numbers in fact. When polled, the most significant factor in moving from Linux to OSX was "availability of both Mac and Linux applications on OSX."
In this case cross-platform applications actually facilitated people moving AWAY from open source.
Another example is Firefox and OpenOffice.org themselves. Their availability on Windows has caused NO (as in none, zip, nada) statistically significant movement to open source operating systems. While there are plenty of people switching to Linux from Windows... the fact that they had Firefox and OpenOffice.org available to them on Windows doesn't seem to be a factor in their decision.
do you have a source for those statistics?
"In this case cross-platform applications actually facilitated people moving AWAY from open source."
Are you saying cross platform open source applications facilitate people moving away from open source? Would you care to explain what exactly you mean here?
If you think that a few applications being available on other platforms caused people to move away from Linux, I think you either delusional or intentionally avoiding the real cause of that migration.
Having those applications readily available might make a transition easier but they would not be the impetus for such a move. I would guess that these people either had a compelling reason to migrate to another OS or they found Linux frustrating to use.
I am not so sure about this. My first experiences with linux were caused by my desire to get PostgreSQL running (and I haven't been able to use PostgreSQL on windows back then). Only after being somewhat forced to use it, I stayed on board and kept using it more and more - until linux finally has become my preferred OS.
I guess this is kind of typical for a lot of developers. They start using linux (or the BSDs or OpenSolaris) as their local server (for files, webapps, databases) and _might_ just stick with it because it simply works and it is finally a system where you know what actually is happening.
This is of course different for non-developers (sometimes referred to as users - as if we wouldn't use the systems ourselves). If there is a huge pool of free apps available that are actually used, they of course could switch faster. But I guess this is only relevant (as of now) at work where IT departments in conjunction with the execs of the company recommend which OS (and other software) to use. Whether they suggest (or even evaluate) a free OS or a proprietary one is among other things influenced by the availability of the used apps.
After reading this and the new KDE definitions, I'm a little confused as to the benefit of KDE on other platforms. From what I can understand of the definitions, KDE Workspace is the real meat of what I understand KDE to be. Without the KDE Workspace running on MacOS or Windows, what we are really talking about is KDE Applications running on the other platforms, correct? If so, I don't have an issue with it. But I fail to see how it will help convert users over to Linux. KDE Workspace is how they would see the benefit of KDE itself, but they won't see that part. So really all they get are the cool KDE apps native on their platform but no incentive to switch.
Am I missing something? Someone more knowledgeable, please enlighten me.
Why should the goal of the KDE project be to convert people to linux? What does the kernel have to do with a window manager/GUI toolkit? Are you opposed to KDE running on FreeBSD?
I'm not opposed at all to KDE running on FreeBSD. It is an open system and as I understand it, the full KDE system runs on it. You ask why should the goal of the KDE project be to convert people to linux? That's not my goal per se, but I thought it was stated by some KDE developers that part of the reason for running KDE on Windows and MacOS was to make it easier for windows developers to develop for Linux, thus pulling in more Windows users. If that is a goal, then I was trying to get clarification (or more like education) on how this strategy would do that.
I agree Troy's explanation wasn't very clear.
Putting aside "the convert people to Linux" part, there is one very simple benefit, and it is not "making it easier for windows developers to develop for Linux". It is Windows and Mac developers coding for KDE applications, and in time even kdelibs! They don't need to switch to Linux in order to be beneficial for KDE.
That means, for example, a physicist liking KStars so much, that he decides contributing that missing feature preventing him from dropping his commercial planetarium solution. Same with other apps. The source code improvements come from three operating systems now, Windows, Mac and Linux (and Unixes, of course). Everybody wins.
Ok, now that I understand. So the benefit is that KDE apps get a lot more potential developers who can improve the app. A "side" benefit is that some may convert to Linux/KDE, but that isn't necessarily the main objective.
also some users who need or like to run mac/windows may like to use good software on that platform too. For example me likes to use KMail and amarok while I am on windows (which I need to use for my win=>linux porting jobs :)
Many people find themselves tied, not to a particular platform but to a set of applications. If the applications they use everyday can be found on a different platform, wouldn't that make the switch easier for them? It did for me, when I started using FLOSS apss instead of proprietary ones on Windows. Not only makes it easier to keep using your computer as you did before switching, but also dispels any doubt you might have about the quality of open source software.
I had to use GNOME apps like GAIM or GIMP on windows. Just imagine people using Kopete or Krita... Using a Linux/KDE desktop would make much more sense to them after using kde apps. The learning curve would be way less steep, as they would only have to get used to the desktop per se, and kde can behave very much like windows if configured to. The key is making it easy for people making the switch one step at a time.
On the other hand, KDE apps (and also Gnome/GTK+ apps) looks alien in Windows and Mac environment. And while regular Windows users can accept such things, I guess Mac zea^H^H^H users won't, screaming that they want true Mac OS apps and not foreign shoehorned apps, just like Linux users complain when company X releases a Wine-based Linux version of their products.
I guess a proper iconset could help, yet other issues (HIG) are harder to conciliate.
So, open-minded people who uses multiple platforms at once (specially Unix/Linux people using Mac because its Unix fundation) can get interest on KDE/Mac, but getting hardcore Mac users interested in using KDE apps into the OSX desktop is not a task I believe possible.
As a Mac developer, a Linux developer, and a Windows developer, I think the "OS-centric" viewpoint is dated. No one cares about the OS, they care about the applications.
THAT is what is important.
As a developer I see this as significant because a) wxWidgets reallys sucks and b) QT is pretty nifty (yes, I've used them both).
As for reconciling the HIG with KDE - let me clue you in that there are a LOT of OS X apps out there that do NOT follow HIG.
As for OS X developers, frankly, I would rather write in a real OO language than C++. Sorry, but them's the reality. So, no, you probably won't see folks switch. What you WILL see is more people write cross-platform apps.
THAT is what is important here.
What about this:
KDE is good because it has many apps that are well-integrated together and to the underlying operating system (kio, dbus, ..).
By making it more abstract and by porting the apps on other desktops the efforts are put on dis-integrating the whole desktop.
The identity of the project is now split between those who only care about their apps, and those who want a functional desktop.
Porting to other platforms is an interesting thing if done afterwards, not first.
It is not because something can be done that it must be done.
Porting Kwin/Kdesktop&Kicker(now: plasma)/etc. over would mean writing replacements to the explorer shell and equivalent on the mac. Though if you really want to work in a KDE workspace, just grab a PC-BSD or Kubuntu disk and go nuts. And the argument that you can't install a different OS at work is probably void anyway, considering that you'd be wanting to replace the explorer shell. If you admin lets you do that, (s)he'd probably just let you use unix anyway :)
All of the important bits of KDE cross-application integration will still be there. You can still save to the fish:/ ioslave in the KDE file dialogs, and such, or write scipts to control applications via dbus. Things like KOffice scripting using Kross should be platform agnostic. Other than a few utilities, KWin/Plasma are the only two substantial applications that won't make the journey. KWin is totally redundant on non-X11 platforms, and Plasma is mostly redundant. The only reason one would want to use it is for the little plasma applets (plasmoids), but again, if they're that important to you, use Unix/X11.
Speaking of what you call a real OO language, is it possible to write KDE apps with ObjC?
There used to be Objective C bindings but nobody used them and they were dropped from active maintenance.
I want to second Fede's point. Most people care much more about their applications than their operating system. If people get accustomed to using KDE applications that run on Windows, Mac, and Linux, then they will care a lot less what operating system they're using. And at that point, the advantages of Linux (and other free systems like BSD) will become more compelling and people will start switching when they get tired of paying for Microsoft's cosmetic upgrades and bad security.
Over the short term, I think this will pull more people to Macs from both Windows and Linux. But over the long term we may see more of a shift to open source systems from both Windows and Mac. That's especially true if Mac and Windows developers do contribute to KDE and further improve the applications.
Actually, I think that there are several KDE applications offering great functionality on KDE, why should they be confined to the KDE Workspace only? I have a hard time finding a Latex editor on par with Kile and an email application with the features of KMail on the Mac. I am pretty sure that the developers of those apps will be very happy when they receive their first bug report from a Mac user :-)
KDE/Mac guys, keep up the good work!
Just a question, have you tried TexShop? It works very well for me. http://www.uoregon.edu/~koch/texshop/.
Simple - exposing developers and users to free (as in freedom) software, will benefit the free software community of users if they are accepted and promoted by these new users.
Every license out there puts limits on the freedom of others. Please stop misusing the word freedom. Open Source software licenses are merely more permissive in that they provide access to the source and the permission to redistribute derived works under the same license to other people. The GPL is one of the more restrictive licenses in that it restricts the freedom of developers to make use of the code in only GPL licensed projects. It is viral in nature and because of that, it actually can strip the rights of other developers if they do not educate themselves of all the terms and conditions before they touch the code.
Yeah, and that's intended and works toward keeping the end user's freedom, as opposed to the programmer's freedom which is maximized by using a BSD style license.
Can we please omit this discussion? I can't hear it anymore. Just accept that there isn't only one definition of freedom, and never assume that you know what's right and the other one is wrong. It's just a point of view.
Thanks for stopping this part of the thread.
Troy, you.... ROCK!
Your articles are simply wonderful! Is tomorrow Monday again? Uh?!?! Well... I'm definitely looking forward your next article!
Your feature lists make me desire KDE 4 NOW!!! Damn, it's going to be sooo coool and soooo great, absolutely the greatest DE in the world. I think the portability to Mac and Win is a killer-feature: we will have great free applications working anywhere, well, this is a dream becoming true.
Keep working on, The Road to KDE 4 is amazing!
Seriously. The only thing wrong with The Road to KDE4 is that it is posted so soon after This Week in SVN, so that I have to wait a whole week for my KDE news fix :) Any chance of moving it to, say, Thursdays?
i can only agree.... :D
Love the Road to KDE4 articles. Great work Troy!
Hi Troy,
Thank you for the great article! I'm perfectly fine with people using other operating systems and hardware, as long as they use KDE as their desktop environment/GUI ;-)
So the smart guys started wasting time porting their selfish little apps to more platforms instead of finishing KDE4. Does Qt4 suck or what ? :-)
This said, i am glad to see better integrated apps on the Mac, the ok/cancel buttons are finally on the right side.
PS: no puppies but kittens
KDE is based on Qt. Also on Mac. How do you distill any qt-suckage out of this article?
"So the smart guys started wasting time porting their selfish little apps to more platforms instead of finishing KDE4. Does Qt4 suck or what ? :-)"
Hey, developing for KDE4 base system is a totaly different work than building packages. Would you have complain if the article were about packaging KDE4 to Ubuntu ? Canonical doesn't develop KDE4 (they might help), but you can install somme of the 4th serie on your ubuntu OS.
Thanks to Qt, It's Nearly the same to make an Ubuntu .deb that a OSX .cmg or a windows .exe. (exept low level system specific library and file system and ???)
Just look these as two _huge_ new distrib suported by KDE.
>Just look these as two _huge_ new distrib suported by KDE.
Except these two huge new "distrubitions" (win/osx) are 100% closed source, 100% propietary and patented to hell and back. x.x
OS X is not 100% closed source. OK it's mostly closed, but hell, the kernel is open.
Windows OTOH doesn't deserve KDE.


text:
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
There's a review of my chapter contribution to The End of Christianity--the Salem Witch Trials argument here:
He argues that it is possible to consistently hold that they weren't witches at Salem, but Jesus really was resurrected.
Thursday, July 21, 2011
Review of the Salem Witch Trials Argument
27 comments:
- Truth Seeker said...
I think this guy basically pointed out something that I see as a huge confusion in your argument: you conflate what data needs to be explained, with what the best explanation of that data is.
Specifically, in the case of the Resurrection, people don't believe it because of the data we have concerning the empty tomb, the post-mortem appearances, and the origin of the disciples belief. Those facts aren't supernatural and are open to historical investigation. Rather, people think that the best explanation of that data is that God raised Jesus from the dead.
On the other hand, there are certain facts about the Salem Witch Trials which we know. However, unlike the "Resurrection case," there are plausible naturalistic hypotheses for Salem that aren't analogous and parallel to the specific historical circumstances surrounding the life and death of Jesus. Other strong disanalogies exist as well, but this one is notable.
I will say that you do address something underdeveloped in NT studies though: the relevance of modern cognitive psychology to historical sources. That is the real merit of your work on this in my opinion.
PS: Hume pointed out that if the worlds religions have historical evidence on epistemic par with one another then they cancel each other out. However, you have chosen a case that wouldn't cancel out Christianity. Specifically, magic and Christianity aren't incompatible. You should have chosen something like alleged miracles from Islam, or Buddhism, or Hinduism (Good luck though, these religions don't rely on miracles for their truth). - July 21, 2011 at 9:15 AM
- JSA said...
It seems that both sides are agreeing to frame the debate in terms of a "God of the gaps"; a God who needs to violate the Laws of Nature to make his presence known.
If that's the case, I think the Christian loses this one. - July 21, 2011 at 9:53 AM
- Truth Seeker said...
JS Allen ???????
- July 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM
- JSA said...
@Silly atheists - By conceding that the only proof of God's hand can be through a direct violation of the "Laws of Nature", jayman777 loses the debate from the onset. Verifying whether or not laws of physics were violated at an event 2,000 years ago, will always at best be inconclusive.
As an analogy, take the story of the destruction of Sodom by fire raining down from the sky. Let's assume for sake of discussion that the story was based on a kernel of truth. It's only within the last 300 years that we have a naturalistic explanation for balls of fire can fall from the sky (e.g. meteors). IOW, the story of Sodom being destroyed no longer requires God to violate the Laws of Nature. If a Christian has a problem with this fact, it's only because he's put himself in a stupid corner. - July 21, 2011 at 3:35 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
Thank you for your response.
What is your argument to support the following assertion that you made:
"Verifying whether or not laws of physics were violated at an event 2,000 years ago, will always at best be inconclusive." - July 21, 2011 at 3:48 PM
- JSA said...
@Some Guy - It's inconclusive, because you only have one instance in 2,000 years. So you could reasonably say, "we think the laws of nature might conceivably have been violated" (whatever that means), but that doesn't accomplish much. And I say "at best", because you're setting yourself up for a plausible naturalistic explanation to be found at some point in the future, as could be claimed for the firebombing of Sodom.
- July 21, 2011 at 4:48 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
Oh I see. Instead of arguing with you about this particular point, I instead wanted to ask you if you have ever heard of, or better yet, read a book called Hume's Abject Failure by John Earman? I think that you might have your mind blown if you read it... and/or I could just give you the meat of it here and now as well.
PS: Are you a Christian? - July 21, 2011 at 6:46 PM
- JSA said...
Sorry, I haven't read it. I don't ascribe to Hume's definition of "miracle". That's because, like Spinoza, I don't think it's what any believer prior to 1748 considered to be the definition of "miracle".
I am a Christian at least to the extent that Spinoza was a Christian. I'm sure that many Christians consider me to be atheist, and I am a former militant atheist. - July 21, 2011 at 8:00 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
Hmmmm... I am interested to try and understand what you mean by I am a Christian as far as Spinoza was a Christian, and what you think actually happen at the "Resurrection" event is you define a miracle like Spinoza did. So, humbly, would you describe your view of the Resurrection, and how you think you may differ from a "typical" Christian.
Thank you. - July 21, 2011 at 10:20 PM
- Havok said...
SillyAtheists: Specifically, in the case of the Resurrection, people don't believe it because of the data we have concerning the empty tomb, the post-mortem appearances, and the origin of the disciples belief.
In my experience people's belief is not based on this evidence at all. This stuff is brought out to justify the belief, post hoc.
SillyAtheists: Those facts aren't supernatural
Those aren't "facts", but are literary events. To establish them as probabilities requires further argumentation
SillyAtheists: and are open to historical investigation.
And/or literary investigation. Actually, the literary investigation comes first, since all we have are words...
SillyAtheists: Rather, people think that the best explanation of that data is that God raised Jesus from the dead.
This works back to my initial point - people use this sort of thing to buttress their beliefs, but these sorts of claims are not rationally coercive. - July 22, 2011 at 6:41 AM
- Truth Seeker said...
Havok, do you have anything to say about the actual topic of this blog. So far, you haven't disagreed with the point being made by Silly Atheists.
- July 22, 2011 at 10:52 AM
- Reginald Selkirk said...
jayman777: It should also be noted that the apostle Paul was not grieving the death of Christ.
What? Paul has never been considered an eyewitness to the resurrection.
In the case of the resurrection we are attempting to explain the empty tomb...
I have never found the empty tomb argument to be convincing. "Hey look, I have an invisible dwarf unicorn in the palm of my hand. You don't see it? That proves it's invisible!" - July 22, 2011 at 1:26 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
1) How do you explain the empty tomb?
2) What jayman777 meant by, "It should also be noted that the apostle Paul was not grieving the death of Christ" is that Mccormick's attempted grief hallucinations explanation for the post-mortem appearances of Jesus has weak explanatory scope and power because Paul who was not grieving, enountered the resurrected Jesus on the Road to Damascus while he was an enemy of the Christian movement.
Let's practice the art of representing our opponents accurately a little better and also do them the honor of putting thought into our responses to them. - July 22, 2011 at 1:45 PM
- Matt McCormick said...
One of my favorite passages from Julie Holland's Weekends at Bellevue. She was a psych. at Bellevue Hospital in NY for years. Saw every kind of mental illness:
Being preoccupied with religion is a classic manic symptom . . In a manic state, people have less desire for sleep; they will talk more, create more, do more. Commonly, bipolar patients get hyper-religious in their newfound frenzy and sometimes end up on a street corner and then a psych ER explaining that they are Jesus or the Messiah, or that they've discovered a new religion. They've had a vision, an epiphany, and they want to share it with the world. Their grandiosity can be charismatic and alluring. Religions and cults are fomed around this kind of energy. . . (Weekends at Bellevue, Julie Holland.)
The prevalence of people experiencing some or all of the symptoms of bipolar disorder in the general population is thought to be as high as 5%.
Every time I read passages like this, or talk to a student who's got hyper-religious thoughts and some mental illness problems, I think of Paul.
M - July 22, 2011 at 4:03 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- July 22, 2011 at 6:09 PM
- Truth Seeker said...
Hello Professor,
That certainly is an interesting excerpt, but you haven't done anything to demonstrate that Paul was bipolar. I wonder what justification you have for thinking that, if any?
Unfortunately, the genre of Psychobiography is rejected by historians.
Martin Hengel rightly concludes, "Lüdemann . . . does not recognize these limits on the historian. Here he gets into the realm of psychological explanations, for which no verification is really possible . . . . the sources are far too limited for such psychologizing analyses."1
So, if you are able to demonstrate your assertion with an argument, you will be responsible for an entire paradigm shift in the study of ancient history!
1. Martin Hengel and Anna Maria Schwemer, Paul between Damascus and Antioch, trans. John Bowden (Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1997), 342; cf. 40-41. See also Martin Hengel, The PreChristian Paul, in collaboration with Roland Deines (London: SCM, 1991),p. 79. - July 22, 2011 at 6:13 PM
- Havok said...
SomeGuy: Havok, do you have anything to say about the actual topic of this blog. So far, you haven't disagreed with the point being made by Silly Atheists.
Yeah I did. SillyAtheist was claiming that certain literary events are historical facts (as you do in a later comment).
SomeGuy: 1) How do you explain the empty tomb?
The empty tomb is a literary device. An explanation doesn't need to take it as a literal historical event, because we have no solid evidence of it - just cultic propaganda written 40+ years after the supposed event.
SomeGuy: enountered the resurrected Jesus on the Road to Damascus while he was an enemy of the Christian movement.
Paul didn't encounter the resurrected Jesus. The best I think that can be maintained is a revelatory experience, a vision, and not an encounter with a flesh and blood being.
SomeGuy: Let's practice the art of representing our opponents accurately a little better and also do them the honor of putting thought into our responses to them.
We also ought to represent out own position a little more accurately as well :-) - July 22, 2011 at 7:33 PM
- Jon Hanson said...
I can understand rejecting Psychobiography, but for me the best reasons to reject psychobiography go 10 times as well for rejecting supernatural interpretation of historical data, the claims far outstrip the evidence that can be presented.
- July 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM
- Reginald Selkirk said...
Some Guy: 1) How do you explain the empty tomb?
What's to explain? It is one plot twist in a story. There is no historical verification of any "empty tomb" outside the books of the New Testament, which were written by fervent believers decades after the alleged events.
Outside of those stories, there is no historical record that Jesus H. Christ ever lived, let alone died, or was buried. - July 23, 2011 at 11:13 AM
- Reginald Selkirk said...
And supposing that I granted, ad argumentum, that Jesus H. Christ lived, was crucified, and placed in a tomb, and that his followers returned one morning to find the tomb empty, there are many more probable and less miraculous explanations which could be entertained. Maybe the Romans noted that the tomb had become a rallying point for undesirables, and removed the body and burned it (parallel in current history). Maybe a fervent and demented follower stole the body to fuel tales of a resurrection. Etc., etc, etc. There is no shortage of non-miraculous explanations.
What is your explanation for the fact that insects have six legs, not four, as described in Leviticus chapter 11? - July 23, 2011 at 11:21 AM
- James said...
"While I accept a natural explanation for the Salem Witch Trials, I do not claim that I can definitively rule out a supernatural explanation."
How lucky for John Proctor and Rebecca Nurse they didn't have to rely upon jayman for their defense. - July 23, 2011 at 2:33 PM
- James said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- July 23, 2011 at 2:34 PM
- JSA said...
@Matt - That's a super interesting topic, IMO. We often admire artists who have certain types of mental imbalance, because the mental imbalance seems to actually contribute to creativity. And it's not just bipolarity -- I have interviewed several schizophrenics about their theories of the world, and they often have these amazing insights hidden among all of the insanity. Autism is another example. People with Asperger's are considered to be unreliable in many areas (like being able to think telologically), but it turns out that their insights in some areas are surprisingly good.
- July 23, 2011 at 7:44 PM
- JSA said...
@Some guy - Sorry I missed your comment. Basically, I agree with Spinoza that the very phrase "violation of the Laws of Nature" is incoherent and non-Biblical. The concept has always seemed like complete nonsense to me.
Like Spinoza says, a "miracle" is just something that is exceedingly rare, and of a sort to be interpreted as a sign. - July 23, 2011 at 7:58 PM
- Cian Eamon Marley said...
JS Allen,
Re: miracles as 'exceedingly rare' events & the so-called incoherency of the phrase 'violations of the laws of nature.'
The phrase is not incoherent at all. That is, not if you define a law of nature as an empirical generalization of observable physical relationships and behaviors for which we have thus far no confirmed, repeatable contradictory observations.
In a sense, albeit a limited sense, we could, if you like, define a miracle as an exceedingly rare event, but if we were to do that, we would sin against imprecision and include far too much in our definition of miracles. (Which would, ironically, have the ancillary effect of trivializing your 'signs' thus making interpretation impossible.)
E.g., the poker hand aside, the next time you walk into your bathroom, at any one time the micro physical particles which comprise the atmosphere in the bathroom will occupy a certain space. The probability of any one arrangement is, to say the least, 'exceedingly' low, but any one assemblage is not a miracle, no?
To the avoid being too inclusive, we ought to define a law of nature along the probabilistic lines stated above and then define miracles with respect to that definition.
I am sure the definition would be non-Biblical, but I am confident it would not be 'incoherent.' ;-) - July 24, 2011 at 12:02 AM
- Matt DeStefano said...
"The mere fact that one event has quantitatively more evidence than another does not mean we ignore the event with quantitatively less evidence. Seeing, hearing, and touching the physical Jesus is qualitatively better evidence for the supernatural than the visionary experiences of the afflicted girls in Salem."
We don't have "seeing, hearing, and touching" of the physical Jesus. We have anonymous, religious texts that claim that people have seen, heard, and touched the physical Jesus.
There's an enormous difference between the two. - July 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM
- Steven Carr said...
'We have anonymous, religious texts that claim that people have seen, heard, and touched the physical Jesus.'
Not one single person in the first century put his name on a document claiming he had touched a flesh and bone Jesus. - August 2, 2011 at 3:08 AM


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There are various types of indoor resin flooring, the most common being listed below.
One of the most popular surfaces we provide in Stourbridge is polyurethane resin screed which is applied to a thickness between 3mm-5mm for self smoothing and 6mm-9mm for trowel applied systems.
Our self smoothing PU screed flooring is a heavy duty surface that offers a smooth, easy to clean finish that is available in numerous colours.
When being applied by a trowel, the surface is applied 6mm-9mm and is the most used material for the food industry as well as heavy engineered facilities.
Our team can also offer MMA Screed flooring in Stourbridge which is typically laid at 2-4mm. The MMA smooth screed is a tough, chemical resistant floor finish that is perfect for the food and drinks industry.
These surfaces are hard wearing, abrasion resistant, hygienic, slip resistant and easily cleaned. These surfaces are perfect for a range of industries, so are the perfect surface for lots of clients.
If you have any more questions on MMA flooring, please make sure to speak to an advisor today.
Epoxy Terrazzo flooring is a mixture of Epoxy and Terrazzo which creates an easy pour system suitable for numerous areas including school canteens, industrial kitchens, car show rooms and more.
Due to its pristine appearance, this is often seen as a luxury surface used for commercial projects that are looking for a aestheticall pleasing finish and a clean look.
You may also come across this surface in restaurants and bars, as it is available in various colours.
Epoxy resin screed is a mixture of epoxy resin and various sizes of quartz aggregate. This surface is typically laid between 6-9mm and can withstand very heavy impacts.
Available in a range of different colours, the high-build epoxy resin coatings are great for professional flooring, warehouses and more. The flooring range is available for both indoor and outdoor surfaces and is a great option if you are looking for a glossy finish.
The high-build epoxy resin also offers chemical resistance, and excellent adhesion and the surface is hard-wearing and durable.
Our installers can also offer a 2-3mm Self Smoothing epoxy floor which is perfect for showrooms and other facilities where hygiene and a clean look are required.
Self levelling screed is a mixture of epoxy and fine filler sand that creates a smooth, seamless surface which is highly chemical resistant, hard wearing and easy to clean.
If you have any queries on the various installations we can offer including 6-10mm polymer screeds, PU coatings and more, please make sure to contact us now.
As professional industrial flooring contractors, we will ensure you receive the very best value for money.
Epoxy sealers are usually solvent or waterborne and are installed over concrete or timber floors to create a hard wearing dust free finish.
This type of sealant offers long term chemical resistance and is great for heavy duty areas, whether you are using forklift trucks or there is just heavy pedestrian traffic.
Water based epoxy resin floor paint is becoming more and more popular, as it is great for various uses. The water based epoxy resin is actually water dispersed.
This type of floor paint is usually installed in one or two coats at 150 microns thick. The paint is installed on cementitious levelling screeds prior to high build coatings.
High build epoxy coating is a thick material (approximately 5-30 mil thick) which is usually roller applied. This type of coating
This solvent free two pack product is resistant to water vapour permeability and provides water proofing protection. The coating also offers better crack bridging capability than other paints.
Due to its easy to clean, durable, smooth and non slip finish, this coating is often using in industrial warehouses and factories. It can also withstand heavy foot traffic.
Available in a range of different colours, the high build epoxy resin coatings are great for professional flooring, warehouses and more. The flooring range is available for both indoor and outdoor surfaces and are a great option if you are looking for a glossy finish.
The high build epoxy resin also offers chemical resistance, excellent adhesion and the surface is hard wearing and durable.
Subfloor preparation could involve shot blasting, glue removal or cleaning before installing the self-smoothing, heavy-duty surface.
Our company also offers a variety of colours and decorative systems for our epoxy floor in Stourbridge, which can also impact the price of the finished product.
This can also be added to walls as well as flooring if required. Our team also provides a high gloss finish for smaller and larger areas.
As an industry leader, we work closely with our clients to help them create the perfect flooring systems for their needs and offer industrial resin flooring to all businesses, from garages to schools and retail spaces.
To learn more about the self-levelling screed smooth surface systems, we offer and the cost of our services, please contact our customer service team today.
We can work with you to develop suitable resin flooring for your needs, focusing on quality and safety and allowing for decorative details and an aesthetically pleasing finish.
An epoxy resin floor is a plastic coating that can be added to all forms of flooring, from concrete to wood, to provide additional layers of protection, safety, and style.
An epoxy resin floor is extremely hard-wearing and smooth, making it attractive and ideal for safety measures in all settings.
From garages to food retailers, having an anti-slip, easy to maintain, and the attractive floor is highly beneficial, which is why we offer our resin systems across all fields.
When a floor is busy with foot traffic all year round, a new floor design with epoxy resins will benefit you as the natural biopolymers will not wear down over time.
Epoxy resin surfacing has many benefits, from offering a robust, chemically resistant surface to being abrasion-resistant. These flooring systems are also attractive and can be installed in any colour to suit the needs of your business.
Our company works to install, seal and perfect industrial resin flooring and has a great cost per unit. It is important to note that a certain ambient temperature will need to be achieved throughout the process, depending on which floor sealer is installed.
Contact us today to get specification advice and a free, no-obligation quote.
Our company can provide a wide range of epoxy floor coating systems, including self-smoothing floor screed, a 2-3mm finish suitable for various locations.
It can be sealed to offer additional protection in wet areas.
Epoxy resin floor coatings can be installed in a range of spaces. These include:
The benefits of epoxy resin, such as the chemical resistance and protection it offers to prevent substrate in concrete, make it suitable for all forms of settings.
Our company has worked across the board with industrial clients, commercial settings, warehouses and factories in Stourbridge to offer them this safe and hard-wearing surface.
The important thing to remember is that if the concrete floor is not sealed prior, you will need to seal it before the main poured resin floor is carried out to ensure you get the best possible result.
There are various types of industrial flooring solutions, but epoxy resin and polyurethane floor coating are the most common. Industrial spaces may refer to warehouses, automotive spaces, engineering settings, factories and more.
Our team have a number of contractors who are experts when it comes to the installation of industrial flooring. All of our team members are full skilled and have years of experience.
Keeping health and safety in mind, we ensure to carry out the very best installations when it comes to the application of industrial floors. We have extensive knowledge in all resin and polyurethane floor solutions and can advise you on the best type of product for your project.
With heavy duty flooring, it is important you use the correct specification, ie depth, ratio of materials, slip resistance, chemical resistance, etc. With plenty of experience within the surfacing industry, we can ensure you will receive the very best finish.
Another purpose for epoxy resin is for factory floors. We offer heavy duty factory flooring that is able to withstand pallet trucks, forklift traffic, HGVs, planes and various other vehicles.
Our experts can offer heavy duty factory flooring for engineering and automotive services as well as food factories and more. All our surfaces are chemical resistant and slip resistant to ensure safety in these areas.
For more information on installing factory flooring in Stourbridge, please contact us today.
One of the main uses of epoxy resin is for warehouse industrial floor areas. There is a range of warehouse floor options, including warehouse floor tiles.
However, epoxy flooring solutions are often chosen over other options, as they can handle pedestrian and forklift traffic.
Epoxy warehouse flooring is great for pallet trucks, heavy loads and vehicle traffic. Line marking and floor signage can also be added; this creates safe crossing points and pedestrian routes and allows for proper operation around the warehouse floors.
Along with epoxy surfaces, we can also install polyurethane floors. Polyurethane floors provide slip resistance in wet and dry conditions, perfect for warehouse flooring, storage and distribution centres.
If you are looking for an industrial floor solution, indoor resin might be your best surface type. Complete our contact form today to find out more about warehouse floor options.
Another popular use for resin surfaces is automotive industrial flooring solutions. This type of industrial flooring can be used for car showrooms, vehicle manufacturers, car park decking and even vehicle repair workshops.
When looking for a new car, consumers expect vehicles to be displayed in a clean and tidy environment. You will really want to give your clients the WOW factor! Our team have a range of car showroom industrial flooring solutions to create an appealing space for your customers.
If you are looking for a luxury floor, Quartz and Terrazzo would be the perfect fit. Both industrial flooring options are available in a wide array of colours and designs. You can even include your logo on the surface!
Our decorative industrial flooring is stain resistant, easy to clean and the perfect hygienic surface for car showrooms.
Similar to a factory, you will find that heavy duty machinery (such as pallet trucks and fork trucks) is used when manufacturing vehicles. our industrial flooring is hard wearing and abrasion resistant making it perfect for heavy traffic.
Our resin flooring is durable and can be painted on, allowing for walkways, hatched areas and more.
The surface can also be installed in various colours and designs to meet individual needs and requirements.
If you have a commercial car park that yu are looking to surface, our industrial flooring may be the perfect option. Specialist resin flooring for car parks are perfect, as they are durable and long lasting and they can also withstand heavy traffic.
We offer both resin and polyurethane floor systems which are both easy to clean and available in various colours with a gloss finish.
As professional industrial flooring suppliers, we also ensure the surfaces are waterproof and vehicle spill resistant, as it is not uncommon for cars to have oil leaks.
If you have an MOT workshop, you will need to make sure that your surfacing is chemical resistant, heat resistant and impact resistant. Vehicle repair workshops often have heavy objects being dropped on the floors along with fuel spillages and more.
You will want to make sure you get a surface that can be cleaned easily and does not crack with heavy traffic. Our surfaces are non slip and can be painted over to allow for bays, safety lining and more, as you will need to meet VOSA standards.
For further information on the industrial flooring solutions we can install at these repair workshops, please complete our enquiry form today.
As a professional installer of epoxy industrial flooring, we install the full range of epoxy resin coatings and self-smoothing and PU screeds from AFF (Epoxy Coatings) Ltd.
We also install MMA 3-4m systems made by Floortech Ltd.
Please contact us today for more information on our self-level floor suppliers and manufacturers.
Since we order our materials in large batches, we can ensure you will get good quality products at great prices.
We provide expert specification advice on the materials creating this hard-wearing finish, so please contact our team today. We can offer you a cost effective quote for various flooring solutions.
Self-levelling epoxy floor coating offers many benefits, which is why it is such a popular product and is suitable for all forms of settings.
Epoxy floor coating systems have industrial uses as well as being suitable for other areas as they are:
We can add colour to our epoxy floor coating for different finishes, making it available in various colours and for any surface.
Some of the most popular standard colours for our industrial flooring include:
If you require a different colour choice than what is included in our list, please get in touch with our technical team, and we can confirm whether this is possible.
The heavy-duty and medium-duty applications used for instalment provide the flowable resin flooring to be UV stable, so direct sunlight will not affect the colour or slip resistance.
Industrial flooring is a seamless floor that is used in an industrial setting.
There are various types of industrial flooring solutions including concrete floors, epoxy resin, polyurethane and more. The main features of industrial flooring will include durability, abrasion resistance and the ability to withstand heavy loads.
An epoxy resin floor surface is durable, long-lasting, solvent-free, and can be chemical or slip-resistant based on what is added to the wet mixture.
It is ideal for safety, style, and ease of use on every surface.
Epoxy resin floors are waterproof as the entire surface is fully coated.
The high gloss finish is made up of two parts which include the resin and the hardener. When mixed and cured, they create a waterproof surface that is weather-resistant and durable.
It is important to flatten and polish the brushed finish to achieve the gloss finish for two coats.
Adding metallic epoxy pigments can also help to pull the poured resin floor together for a seamless finish.
In most cases, epoxy resin can withstand up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit for a short period.
Clients may opt for a heat-resistant epoxy resin that can withstand more extreme heat (up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit).
Once the epoxy resin has cured, the surface is non-toxic.
This means that as soon as the mixed resin hardens, it is safe for users. The resin floor surface can be walked over and touched safely.
Epoxy resin surfaces can be applied on a sloped floor, usually by a short pile roller.
However, we recommend a flat surface with no cracks, etc., as these imperfections can show through a thin layer of resin.
Epoxy resin can withstand heavy loads.
Since epoxy resin is often used for warehouse flooring and other industrial areas, you can expect the surface to receive high traffic with heavy forklift trucks and pallet trucks crossing the areas.
Due to this, it is vital that epoxy flooring can hold heavy traffic, allowing for a safe workplace.
Epoxy resin is suitable for both indoor and outdoor use.
When used as external flooring, it can be used for driveways, paths and balconies.
Epoxy floor paint can last between 10 to 20 years.
It is important to research what type of surface you are looking for. We offer epoxy resin, polyurethane screeds and covings, and more. Each surface type may vary in longevity.
Epoxy indoor resin surfacing is one of the best options for warehouse flooring solutions, as it is hard-wearing and chemical-resistant.
An industrial floor must be chosen carefully to ensure the surface lasts long under heavy-duty traffic. We can offer choices for your warehouse flooring system, but epoxy resin is the most popular.
As professionals in the epoxy resin industry, we work in various environments and understand that clients have different needs.
Our team can offer various design options and alter specifications to meet your requirements.
Whether you require an industrial floor for the food industry or automotive purposes, we aim to offer the very best prices and can guarantee value for money.
For a cost effective quotation for epoxy flooring or any of our other services, please complete our enquiry form today.
Make sure you contact us today for a number of great Epoxy Resin Flooring options in West Midlands.
Here are some towns we cover near Stourbridge.
Brierley Hill, Kingswinford, Halesowen, Dudley, Rowley RegisWe used these guys for our industrial warehouse and we are so pleased with the results. Their approach is really friendly but professional. We went out to five different companies and found Epoxy Resin Flooring to be value for money and their service was by far the best. Thank you for your really awesome work!
Arthur PalmerWe have used Epoxy Resin Flooring for our factories for many years as they are certainly the best in the UK. The attention to detail and professional setup is what makes this company our go-to company for all our work. I highly recommend the team for the immense work - we highly recommend them!
Tommy RogersFor more information on Epoxy Resin Flooring in Stourbridge, fill in the contact form below to receive a quick quote today.
We Aim To Reply To All Enquiries With-in 24-Hours


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Woven Cross Strap Round Toe Sandals
Comfortable woven cross-strap sandals featuring a round open-toe design, perfect for pairing with your favorite summer outfits.
- Upper Material: Microfiber
- Sole: Microfiber
- Design: Woven Cross Strap
- Square Open Toe
- Occasion: Daily/ Party/ Vacation
KAFILOE has a 21-day return or refund guarantee.
If you have any problem with your order, please feel free to contact: firstname.lastname@example.com
More details of return & refund policy please see at: Return & Refund Policy
Each product we offer comes in standard sizes, please refer to the size chart for detailed product measurements before placing your order.
Please note: measurements may have a 2~3 cm difference. For the perfect fit, we may recommend to order one size up from your regular size.
Free Shipping on Orders of $29.99
Estimated Arrival Time = Order Prep + Shipping
Order Prep: 1-5 days (Due to meticulous crafting and quality standards)
Express: 3-10 days
Standard: 5-15 days
*For total arrival time, consider both prep and shipping durations.
More details please see at: Shipping Policy


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Life insurance, by its very nature, is deeply personal. It transforms the vulnerable into the secure.
It can also leave you wondering – how does that all work, anyway?
Keep reading for answers to a few curious questions you've probably wondered about life insurance… but were too afraid to ask.
Q: I have a dangerous hobby. Can I still get life insurance?
A: In many cases, yes – but expect to answer some questions and (probably) pay a little extra to account for the additional risk.
Before giving you a quote, your local insurance agent may ask you to fill out a written questionnaire to understand more about your hobby. At ERIE, that includes hobbies such as:
- Rock climbing
- Vehicle racing (stock cars, drag racing, motorcycles, etc.)
- Aviation
- Sky diving
- Scuba diving
The questionnaire will ask you some basic information to understand your hobby. This could include:
- How long you've been doing this hobby
- How frequently you participate
- Any training, education, or certifications you've received
- If you ever get paid or hired for your hobby (as opposed to just doing it for fun)
- Future goals or plans for your hobby
It's important to be honest when filling out your questionnaire. If you fudge the details in an attempt to seem less risky… that could be grounds for denying a claim later on. Your completed questionnaire is sent to the life insurance underwriter, who determines the scope of the risk – and ultimately helps calculate the rate you'll pay.
For example: Let's say you're into rock climbing. Does that mean you climb indoors with friends once in a while at the local gym? Or are you planning a trip to the Himalayas to go ice climbing alone? Similarly, if you have a private pilot license – are you taking occasional short trips for business? Or are you regularly stunt flying in air shows on the weekends?
You get the idea… it's all about calculating that risk.
Q: If I quit smoking, can I get re-rated to save money on life insurance?
A: First things first: Good for you!
As for your life insurance: Generally speaking, yes – you can ask your local agent to get your existing policy re-rated. Before you do, though, you'll likely have to show some stability in those lifestyle changes for a year or two to prove that you're in this for the long haul.
What happens next may differ, depending on the circumstances. (Your agent can explain the specifics as they pertain to you.)
If you quit smoking because you're just ready to live a healthier lifestyle – great! With no complications, you could get bumped from the "smoker "to the "nonsmoker" rate classification (and likely save some money in the process).
But, if you quit for a medical reason – such as a diagnosis of COPD or lung cancer – that's a health concern that could impact the cost savings you'd otherwise see from quitting smoking. Your agent will ask you to fill out a questionnaire to get the specifics on why and how you quit.
Q: What if I lose 50 pounds? Could I get re-rated then?
Similar to the smoking example above, expect some follow-up questions about your weight loss. For example: "How and why did you lose the weight?" There are risks that come with weight loss surgeries, such as gastric bypass or lap band surgeries. Similarly, if you dropped a bunch of weight without even trying to… that could be the sign of a worrisome chronic illness or depression. If you start or stop taking certain medications because of your weight loss, that could also affect your rate.
But what if your weight loss is the product of good ol' fashioned discipline, diet, and exercise? Once you show you can keep it off (and provide any necessary test results and information), you could get bumped to a more favorable rate class.
Remember, insurance rates are all about data and probability. When it comes to weight loss, most carriers will add at least 50% of the weight back when they calculate your new rate. Why? Statistically speaking, if you drop a bunch of weight, studies show you're likely to gain at least some of it back.
Ask your ERIE agent about re-rating your policy if or when your circumstances change.
Have a weird or embarrassing insurance question? Don't be shy: Our local agents are licensed professionals – they're not here to judge.
Talk to your local ERIE agent to get the conversation started.
Read about ERIE's life insurance offerings or check out these related blog posts:
- I Have Life Insurance Through Work. Isn't That Enough?
- Don't Let These 6 Reasons Hold You Back from Buying Life Insurance
- 8 Tips for Buying Life Insurance for the First Time
- Term vs. Whole Life Insurance: Which Do You Need?
ERIE life insurance products and services are provided by Erie Family Life Insurance Company (home office Erie, PA), a member of Erie Insurance Group, and are not available in New York.
A better insurance experience starts with ERIE.
Haven't heard of us? Erie Insurance started with humble beginnings in 1925 with a mission to emphasize customer service above all else. Though we've grown to reach the Fortune 500 list, we still haven't lost the human touch.
Contact Trent Insurance Agency today to experience the ERIE difference for yourself.


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Tag: Uncertain Times
About Us
Welcome to Pope2You.net, a vibrant hub for all who seek to take a closer look at the rich tapestry of the Vatican's legacy. As an independent fan page, our mission is to offer a window into the world of the Vatican, capturing its historical grandeur, spiritual meaning, and cultural significance.
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Adult Male
Name: unnamed
Species: Life Pygmy Gemdragon
Birthday: Tuesday, July 9, 2024
Owner: MillaMagia
Mother: unnamed
Father: unnamed
Element: Earth/Life
While other dragons may grow large enough to tower over buildings, pygmy dragons cease growing at a young age, and never reach large sizes. They grow to the size of a large cat, and no more. They are small enough to perch on a human's shoulder without trouble, and their small size allows them to fly extremely fast. It often seems as if these companions are not aware of their own size. They act much like larger dragons, and never back down. This is seldom an issue for them, as they can produce flame just as well as any other dragon. Their flames are smaller, but burn just as bright, and are capable of making even the most dangerous predator turn tail and flee. Though adult pygmys rarely attack humans, all bets are off should anyone enter their homes uninvited. Pygmy dragons usually choose to live in the mountains, but can be seen in the forest and around the castle as well. Some simply sleep on branches, while others spend much time finding the perfect cave. These caves are usually brimming with whatever treasures a pygmy dragon has found. Their nests are created from their favorite items, bright pieces of silk and odd shaped gems. These gems are created by the pygmy dragons themselves, who possess the ability to change the color and shape of any jewel or rock.
These tiny companions are known as pygmy dragons, and are the result of two different dragons producing offspring. As there are many known dragons, there are also many pygmy dragons. Like their larger counterparts, these small creatures come in a variety of colors, each possessing their own temperaments. Some pygmy dragons prefer human company, and are a common sight at the castle, often curled around their magi's necks. Others may be reclusive, wary of leaving the mountains or the Caves of Nareau. Sometimes like-minded pygmies will remain together, even flying as a flock. They are fiercely intelligent creatures, and can even understand human speech. This is a boon in times of trouble, as the dragons respond quickly, but this power has its downsides as well. People must be aware if a pygmy dragon is in earshot, and speak accordingly. Should one mention a particular jewel, or exotic food they spotted in the kitchens, then there will be trouble. In a matter of days or mere hours, the gem or food will be missing, no doubt taken by a spying pygmy. It's all but impossible to retrieve a possession from a pygmy dragon, and it's much better to just let them have it. Like the huge dragons, these creatures will guard their hoards with their lives, and do not forgive easily. Buying their favor is something more easily done, by offering them shiny objects or treats. A pygmy dragon may eat many things. Some solely consume plants, or berries, but there are some who feed on small mice, and others have been known to munch on rocks.
Sprite art: Lazuli (adult) | Description: Damien