text:
Algeria: 32 militants killed, with 23 hostages
ALGERIA: In a bloody finale, Algerian special forces stormed a natural gas complex in the Sahara desert on Saturday to end a standoff with Islamist extremists that left at least 23 hostages dead and killed all 32 militants involved, the Algerian government said.
With few details emerging from the remote site in eastern Algeria, it was unclear whether anyone was rescued in the final operation, but the number of hostages killed on Saturday — seven — was how many the militants had said that morning they still had. The government described the toll as provisional and some foreigners remained unaccounted for.
The siege at Ain Amenas transfixed the world after radical Islamists linked to al-Qaida stormed the complex, which contained hundreds of plant workers from all over the world, then held them hostage surrounded by the Algerian military and its attack helicopters for four tense days that were punctuated with gun battles and dramatic tales of escape.
Algeria's response to the crisis was typical of its history in confronting terrorists, favoring military action over negotiation, which caused an international outcry from countries worried about their citizens. Algerian military forces twice assaulted the two areas where the hostages were being held with minimal apparent mediation — first on Thursday, then on Saturday.
"To avoid a bloody turn of events in response to the extreme danger of the situation, the army's special forces launched an intervention with efficiency and professionalism to neutralize the terrorist groups that were first trying to flee with the hostages and then blow up the gas facilities," Algeria's Interior Ministry said in a statement about the standoff.
Immediately after the assault, French President Francois Hollande gave his backing to Algeria's tough tactics, saying they were "the most adapted response to the crisis."
"There could be no negotiations" with terrorists, the French media quoted him as saying in the central French city of Tulle.
Hollande said the hostages were "shamefully murdered" by their captors, and he linked the event to France's military operation against al-Qaida-backed rebels in neighboring Mali. "If there was any need to justify our action against terrorism, we would have here, again, an additional argument," he said.
President Barack Obama said in a statement Saturday that the U.S. stood ready to provide whatever assistance was needed in the wake of the attack.
"This attack is another reminder of the threat posed by al-Qaida and other violent extremist groups in North Africa. In the coming days, we will remain in close touch with the Government of Algeria to gain a fuller understanding of what took place so that we can work together to prevent tragedies like this in the future," the statement said.
In New York, the U.N. Security Council issued a statement condemning the militants' terrorist attack and said all perpetrators, organizers, financiers and sponsors of such "reprehensible acts" must be brought to justice.
In the final assault, the remaining band of militants killed the hostages before 11 of them were in turn cut down by the special forces, Algeria's state news agency said. The military launched its Saturday assault to prevent a fire started by the extremists from engulfing the complex and blowing it up, the report added.
A total of 685 Algerian and 107 foreigner workers were freed over the course of the four-day standoff, the ministry statement said, adding that the group of militants that attacked the remote Saharan natural gas complex consisted of 32 men of various nationalities, including three Algerians and explosives experts.
The military also said it confiscated heavy machine guns, rocket launchers, missiles and grenades attached to suicide belts.
Sonatrach, the Algerian state oil company running the Ain Amenas site along with BP and Norway's Statoil, said the entire refinery had been mined with explosives, and that the process of clearing it out is now under way.
Algeria has fought its own Islamist rebellion since the 1990s, elements of which later declared allegiance to al-Qaida and then set up new groups in the poorly patrolled wastes of the Sahara along the borders of Niger, Mali, Algeria and Libya, where they flourished.
The standoff has put the spotlight on these al-Qaida-linked groups that roam these remote areas, threatening vital infrastructure and energy interests. The militants initially said their operation was intended to stop a French attack on Islamist militants in neighboring Mali — though they later said it was two months in the planning, long before the French intervention.
The militants, who came from a Mali-based al-Qaida splinter group run by an Algerian, attacked the plant Wednesday morning. Armed with heavy machine guns and rocket launchers in four-wheel drive vehicles, they fell on a pair of buses taking foreign workers to the airport. The buses' military escort drove off the attackers in a blaze of gunfire that sent bullets zinging over the heads of crouching workers. A Briton and an Algerian — probably a security guard — were killed.
The militants then turned to the vast gas complex, divided between the workers' living quarters and the refinery itself, and seized hostages, the Algerian government said. The gas flowing to the site was cut off.
Saturday's government statement said the militants came across the border from "neighboring countries," while the militants said they came from Niger, hundreds of miles (kilometers) to the south.
On Thursday, Algerian helicopters kicked off the military's first assault on the complex by opening fire on a convoy carrying both kidnappers and their hostages to stop them from escaping, resulting in many deaths, according to witnesses.
The accounts of hostages who escaped the standoff showed they faced dangers from both the kidnappers and the military.
Ruben Andrada, 49, a Filipino civil engineer who works as one of the project management staff for the Japanese company JGC Corp., described how he and his colleagues were used as human shields by the kidnappers, which did little to deter the Algerian military.
On Thursday, about 35 hostages guarded by 15 militants were loaded into seven SUVs in a convoy to move them from the housing complex to the refinery, Andrada said. The militants placed "an explosive cord" around their necks and were told it would detonate if they tried to run away, he said.
"When we left the compound, there was shooting all around," Andrada said, as Algerian helicopters attacked with guns and missiles. "I closed my eyes. We were going around in the desert. To me, I left it all to fate."
Andrada's vehicle overturned allowing him and a few others to escape. He sustained cuts and bruises and was grazed by a bullet on his right elbow. He later saw the blasted remains of other vehicles, and the severed leg of one of the gunmen.
The site of the gas plant spreads out over several hectares (acres) and includes a housing complex and the processing site, about a mile (1.6 kilometers) apart, making it especially complicated for the Algerians to secure the site and likely contributed to the lengthy standoff.
"It's a big and complex site. It's a huge place with a lot of people there and a lot of hiding places for hostages and terrorists," said Col. Richard Kemp, a retired commander of British forces who had dealt with hostage rescues in Iraq and Afghanistan. "These are experienced terrorists holding the hostages."
While the Algerian government has only admitted to 23 hostages dead so far, the militants claimed through the Mauritanian news website ANI that the helicopter attack alone killed 35 hostages.
One American, a Texan — Frederick Buttaccio from the Houston suburb of Katy — was among the dead. "Fred spent a lifetime experiencing the world and always respecting everyone he met, no matter their position, culture, or religion," the family said in a statement Saturday.
President Barack Obama said in a statement Saturday that the U.S. stood ready to provide whatever assistance was needed in the wake of the attack.
"This attack is another reminder of the threat posed by al-Qaida and other violent extremist groups in North Africa. In the coming days, we will remain in close touch with the Government of Algeria to gain a fuller understanding of what took place so that we can work together to prevent tragedies like this in the future," the statement said.
French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Saturday that a Frenchman killed, Yann Desjeux, was a former member of the French special forces and part of the security team. The remaining three French nationals who were at the plant are now free, the Foreign Ministry said.
The British government said Saturday it is trying to determine the fate of six people from Britain who are either dead or unaccounted for.
Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain said, "There is no justification for taking innocent life in this way. Our determination is stronger than ever to work with allies right around the world to root out and defeat this terrorist scourge and those who encourage it."
The Norwegian government said there were five Norwegians unaccounted for.
Romanian Prime Minister Victor Ponta said Saturday one Romanian hostage was killed in the course of the siege, while the Malaysian government said two of its citizens were still missing.
The attack by the Masked Brigade, founded by Algerian militant Moktar Belmoktar, had been in the works for two months, a member of the brigade told the ANI news outlet. He said militants targeted Algeria because they expected the country to support the international effort to root out extremists in neighboring Mali and it was carried out by a special commando unit, "Those Who Signed in Blood," tasked with attacking nations supporting intervention in Mali.
The kidnappers focused on the foreign workers, largely leaving alone the hundreds of Algerian workers who were briefly held hostage before being released or escaping.
Several of them arrived haggard-looking on a late-night flight into Algiers on Friday and described how the militants stormed the living quarters and immediately separated out the foreigners.
Mohamed, a 37-year-old nurse who like the others wouldn't allow his last name to be used for fear of trouble for himself or his family, said at least five people were shot to death, their bodies still in front of the infirmary when he left Thursday night.
Chabane, an Algerian who worked in food services, said he bolted out the window and was hiding when he heard the militants speaking among themselves with Libyan, Egyptian and Tunisian accents. At one point, he said, they caught a Briton.
"They threatened him until he called out in English to his friends, telling them, 'Come out, come out. They're not going to kill you. They're looking for the Americans,'" Chabane said.
"A few minutes later, they blew him away."


text:
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Ceres Organics
Ceres Organics From across the ditch this organic food range commenced in New Zealand in 1982. Australians can now enjoy more than 150 premium organic whole food products.
Weight | 0.25 kg |
Brand | |
Dietary |
$12.21 incl. GST
Out of stock
Ceres Organics From across the ditch this organic food range commenced in New Zealand in 1982. Australians can now enjoy more than 150 premium organic whole food products.
Weight | 0.25 kg |
Brand | |
Dietary |
You'll find tons of organic products on the market these days. It seems like every one of them claims to be the best at fulfilling your nutritional requirements. Ceres Organics stands out from the pack by having a lot of loyal customers and a proven track record for quality and nutritional value.
This healthy product brand is a great way for you to improve your overall health, and their products make great gifts for those people in your life that you care about.
Natural Foods and Skincare Products With Ceres Organics, you get a wide range of natural, organic foods that can be used every single day. They offer diced apricots, diced tomatoes, organic nuts and coconut chips, among others. New products are added to their line-up all the time, and you'll find just what you want to keep your tastebuds excited and your body working at its best.
All the beauty care products and foods that Ceres Organics produces are designed to be safe for anyone to use. They use organic ingrains to minimise side effects. Their skincare line can help you achieve healthy, glowing skin and strong, healthy hair.
Great Tasting Products
Organic food produced by Ceres Organics is different from a lot of the competition. They use efficient supply methods to ensure that their customers get their food in a timely manner. You are guaranteed food that tastes fresh and has a great flavour.
The products taste great because they are made in a healthy manner. The farmers that produce them get to work on farms that are clean and environmentally friendly. Many farmers experience lung infections or diseases of the skin due to their hazardous working conditions. On the farms where Ceres Organics sources their products from, farmers experience toxin-free environments without pesticides in the air or on the plants. This makes for safer working conditions for them and safer products for you. By purchasing from Ceres Organics, you are preserving the health of farmers all around the world.
You can protect the environment by picking organic foods. These are foods that are grown in an efficient way and that don't require any fossil fuels. Farmers don't need to use conventional energy that adds to global pollution. Biodiversity can be preserved thanks to sustainable production methods that preserve the soil and water.
Organic food is where a lot of people are shifting their focus these days. They know about the benefits that these kinds of foods offer them and their environment. Ceres Organics gives you the option to go the natural way and protect the environment for yourself and for future generations. You can feel good about what you are putting on your skin and in your body as well as the effect you are having on the environment.


text:
Rs. 780.00
Rs. 870.00
Embroidered lace 9 metres roll
Embroidered lace 9 metres roll
Price stated is for 9 metres.
Length : 9 metres
width : 1 inch
The laces can be used for saree, dress, lehenga or dupatta. You can use this lace alone or add it with other laces to create a new design. Be your own designer and adorn your dresses with the extra touch of laces.


text:
The following is a list of all non-DGA member directors to whom at least $25 of foreign levies have been assigned, but not yet paid. Directors who are owed at least $25 and less than $50 are on one list, and directors owed at least $50 are on the second list. To efficiently manage the foreign levies program, the Guild's priority is to find those directors who are owed more than $50 in foreign levies. An active search is conducted once a director's accrued foreign levies reaches that amount.
Because these directors are not DGA members, the Guild has no internal base of information from which to contact them and must start from scratch to find them. The DGA has employees whose work includes locating non-member directors (or their beneficiaries) who are entitled to foreign levies. The DGA has also employed the services of an outside search firm to locate directors (or their beneficiaries) to whom foreign levies are owed. Even with these extensive efforts, many non-member directors (or their beneficiaries) have been very difficult to find and, even when located, many have not responded to our letters. For these reasons, there are examples on this list of prominent individuals and their estates who have been contacted multiple times, but have not responded to our inquiries.
In the case of some of the deceased directors listed, their estates are involved in protracted probate litigation or other legal disputes preventing anyone from claiming the director's entitlement. In other cases, the beneficiaries have been identified, located, and contacted, but have not responded and thus not yet been paid.
This website list has been created as an additional tool the Guild is using to reach the directors (or their beneficiaries) who have not yet been located, so that they, or anyone who has information about them, can contact the DGA. Some of the directors who appear below have been located by the DGA but remain on the list because they have not yet submitted the necessary documentation required to disburse their foreign levies.
If you are a non-member director on this list, or know how one of the directors on this list can be reached, please contact our Foreign Levies Department: 310-289-5328 or email@example.com.


text:
Enclosed Motor Starter, 9A, 1ph, separate coil voltage, Start/Stop, 100-250VAC/DC coil, 5.7-7.6A O/L, NEMA 4X poly
In stock
Additional Information
▼Springer controls manufactures a complete line of IEC enclosed AC motor starters up to 60HP or 80A. Assembled motor starters consist of a contactor, overload relay and a NEMA 4X rated polycarbonate enclosure. To select the proper starter for your requirements:
1) Refer to the motor or equipment nameplate to verify the Full Load Amperage (FLA) at the input voltage you will supply. Be sure to confirm whether it is 1phase or 3phase power to the motor. Choose a starter rated for current (Amps) higher than the FLA of your motor.
2) Choose the control power used to close the contactor.
3) Choose the overload by selecting a current range that contains the FLA of the motor from step 1
Once you have done this it should narrow down the starters to only options suitable for your motor and power requirements. Then select your starter based on the following optional criteria:
4) Incoming power
If the line power will be used as the control power as well, this is referred to as a "direct-online starter".
If the control voltage is not the same as the line voltage we refer to this as "separate control voltage"
If the starter needs to be activated from an external switch, we add terminals to accept the control power input from that switch. We refer to this as "remote start terminals". It is assumed, in this arrangement that the line voltage and control voltage are the same
If you would like remote start terminals and will be using different voltage for line power and control power, we refer to this as "separate control voltage + remote start terminals".
5) Buttons on enclosure cover
Start/Stop buttons
Reset button only
We have a variety of educational tools in the NEWS section of our website. For more details on motor starters, you may refer to our detailed guide on selecting a contactor if you want to read up on contactors first. https://springercontrols.com/news/how-to-size-a-contactor/ Or if you would like an overview on contactors and overloads and how they work you may refer to our guide on the basics of motor starters. https://springercontrols.com/news/magnetic-motor-starters-basics/
Springer Controls has a certified UL508A panel shop to build custom starters and control panels up to 500V. For any custom options like HOA (Hand-Off-Auto) starters, pilot lights, control transformers, or volume purchases, please contact us at 904-225-0575 -
▼Weight 2 lbs AF Starter Amp Rating 9Amp
AF STARTER- Control Voltage 100-250V AC/DC
AF STARTER COVER CONTROLS Start/Stop Butttons
AF STARTER MOTOR PHASE Single Phase
AF STARTER OVERLOAD CURRENT 5.7-7.6Amp


text:
Mobile Unlocking Steps
Reach out to your provider to learn about its specific unlock policy. Most major mobile providers will unlock your phone as long as your contract is finished or you've paid the early termination fee to cancel your existing plan. They might also unlock your phone if you are travelling to another country and need to use a local carrier there.
Some companies are happy to unlock a phone if it is from one of their rivals. Reach out to your desired carrier and learn what their policy is.
Many phone manufacturers release unlock codes, which are very helpful if you are unlocking your phone on your own. You can run a Google search to find unlock codes for your phones make and model.
Check forums dedicated to cell phone unlocking. They are a great resource with a lot of people who are very knowledgeable.
If the above options dont appeal to you, there are also third-party sites and local retailers that specialize in unlocking phones
Regardless of which route you take, beware of one caveat


text:
My name is Thiana and I am a German-Brazilian sworn translator from beautiful Brazil. I am happily married to my prince charming and the proud mother of two lovely princesses. When I am not busy with work or family, you can catch me reading, running, listening to music, or planning our next Walt Disney World Resort visit. I hope to help you plan a magical Disney vacation that will be filled with wonderful memories.
Visit Walt Disney World Resort to explore the magic.
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We've had a policy of (mostly) not commenting on the various drafts, misquotes and mistaken readings of the Fourth Assessment report ("AR4" to those in the acronym loop) of the IPCC. Now that the summary for policy makers (or "SPM") has actually been published though, we can discuss the substance of the report without having to worry that the details will change. This post will only be our first cut at talking about the whole report. We plan on going chapter by chapter, hopefully explaining the key issues and the remaining key uncertainties over the next few months. This report will be referenced repeatedly over the next few years, and so we can take the time to do a reasonable job explaining what's in it and why.
First of all, given the science that has been done since the Third Assessment Report ("TAR") of 2001 – much of which has been discussed here – no one should be surprised that AR4 comes to a stronger conclusion. In particular, the report concludes that human influences on climate are 'very likely' (> 90% chance) already detectable in observational record; increased from 'likely' (> 66% chance) in the TAR. Key results here include the simulations for the 20th Century by the latest state-of-the-art climate models which demonstrate that recent trends cannot be explained without including human-related increases in greenhouse gases, and consistent evidence for ocean heating, sea ice melting, glacier melting and ecosystem shifts. This makes the projections of larger continued changes 'in the pipeline' (particularly under "business as usual" scenarios) essentially indisputable.
Given all of the hoopla since the TAR, many of us were curious to see what the new report would have to say about paleoclimate reconstructions of the past 1000 years. Contrarians will no doubt be disappointed here. The conclusions have been significantly strengthened relative to what was in the TAR, something that of course should have been expected given the numerous additional studies that have since been done that all point in the same direction. The conclusion that large-scale recent warmth likely exceeds the range seen in past centuries has been extended from the past 1000 years in the TAR, to the past 1300 years in the current report, and the confidence in this conclusion has been upped from "likely" in the TAR to "very likely" in the current report for the past half millennium. This is just one of the many independent lines of evidence now pointing towards a clear anthropogenic influence on climate, but given all of the others, the paleoclimate reconstructions are now even less the central pillar of evidence for the human influence on climate than they have been incorrectly portrayed to be.
The uncertainties in the science mainly involve the precise nature of the changes to be expected, particularly with respect to sea level rise, El Niño changes and regional hydrological change – drought frequency and snow pack melt, mid-latitude storms, and of course, hurricanes. It can be fun parsing the discussions on these topics (and we expect there will be substantial press comment on them), but that shouldn't distract from the main and far more solid conclusions above.
The process of finalising the SPM (which is well described here and here) is something that can seem a little odd. Government representatives from all participating nations take the draft summary (as written by the lead authors of the individual chapters) and discuss whether the text truly reflects the underlying science in the main report. The key here is to note that what the lead authors originally came up with is not necessarily the clearest or least ambiguous language, and so the governments (for whom the report is being written) are perfectly entitled to insist that the language be modified so that the conclusions are correctly understood by them and the scientists. It is also key to note that the scientists have to be happy that the final language that is agreed conforms with the underlying science in the technical chapters. The advantage of this process is that everyone involved is absolutely clear what is meant by each sentence. Recall after the National Academies report on surface temperature reconstructions there was much discussion about the definition of 'plausible'. That kind of thing shouldn't happen with AR4.
The SPM process also serves a very useful political purpose. Specifically, it allows the governments involved to feel as though they 'own' part of the report. This makes it very difficult to later turn around and dismiss it on the basis that it was all written by someone else. This gives the governments a vested interest in making this report as good as it can be (given the uncertainties). There are in fact plenty of safeguards (not least the scientists present) to ensure that the report is not slanted in any one preferred direction. However, the downside is that it can mistakenly appear as if the whole summary is simply up for negotiation. That would be a false conclusion – the negotiations, such as they are, are in fact heavily constrained by the underlying science.
Finally, a few people have asked why the SPM is being released now while the main report is not due to be published for a couple of months. There are a number of reasons – firstly, the Paris meeting has been such a public affair that holding back the SPM until the main report is ready is probably pointless. For the main report itself, it had not yet been proof-read, and there has not yet been enough time to include observational data up until the end of 2006. One final point is that improvements in the clarity of the language from the SPM should be propagated back to the individual chapters in order to remove any superficial ambiguity. The science content will not change.
Had it been up to us, we'd have tried to get everything together so that they could be released at the same time, but maybe that would have been impossible. We note that Arctic Climate Impact Assessment in 2004 also had a similar procedure – which lead to some confusion initially since statements in the summary were not referenced.
How good have previous IPCC reports been at projecting the future? Actually, over the last 16 years (since the first report in 1990), they've been remarkably good for CO2 changes, temperature changes but actually underpredicted sea level changes.
When it comes to specific discussions, the two that are going to be mostly in the news are the projections of sea level rise and hurricanes. These issues contain a number of "known unknowns" – things that we know we don't know. For sea level rise the unknown is how large an effect dynamic shifts in the ice sheets will be. These dynamic changes have already been observed, but are outside the range of what the ice sheet models can deal with (see this previous discussion). That means that their contribution to sea level rise is rather uncertain, but with the uncertainty all on the side of making things worse (see this recent paper for an assessment (Rahmstorf , Science 2007)). The language in the SPM acknowledges that stating
"Dynamical processes related to ice flow not included in current models but suggested by recent observations could increase the vulnerability of the ice sheets to warming, increasing future sea level rise. Understanding of these processes is limited and there is no consensus on their magnitude."
Note that some media have been comparing apples with pears here: they claimed IPCC has reduced its upper sea level limit from 88 to 59 cm, but the former number from the TAR did include this ice dynamics uncertainty, while the latter from the AR4 does not, precisely because this issue is now considered more uncertain and possibly more serious than before.
On the hurricane/tropical strorm issue, the language is quite nuanced, as one might expect from a consensus document. The link between SST and tropical storm intensity is clearly acknowledged, but so is the gap between model projections and analyses of cyclone observations. "The apparent increase in the proportion of very intense storms since 1970 in some regions is much larger than simulated by current models for that period."
We will address some of these issues and how well we think they did in specific posts over the next few weeks. There's a lot of stuff here, and even we need time to digest it!


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Dead dolphins have been washing up in alarming numbers on mid-Atlantic beaches since July as scientists struggle to find a cause for the largest such die-off in a quarter-century.
More than 160 Atlantic bottlenose dolphins have turned up dead from New York to Virginia, says Charley Potter, a marine mammal collection manager at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History, tells NPR'sWeekend Edition Saturday.
Potter, who is working with a rescue team from the Virginia Aquarium and Marine Science Center , tells host Scott Simon that the die-off involves "all age classes, both males and females" and that it "seems to have two centers of concentration – one in New Jersey and the other in Virginia."
While no definitive cause for the dolphin deaths has been determined, Potter says one possibility is the morbillivirus, a member of the same family of virus that causes measles and canine distemper.
Morbillivirus was pinpointed as a cause in a 1987 dolphin die-off that killed some 2,500 animals. Potter says it "has been found in some of the animals to date."
Scientists must now determine "whether or not the [morbillivirus] infection is something that's always been there and that we're picking it up because of increased surveillance, or in fact it's the smoking gun," he says.
Delmarvanow.com quotes Teri Rowles, National Marine Mammal Stranding coordinator with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, as saying the suspect virus is "at the top of our list to rule out."
Rowles tells the news website that the virus requires close contact to pass between dolphins, but that some of the marine mammals have antibodies that protect them.
According to Delmarvanow.com:
"There are four near-shore populations of dolphins from New York to North Carolina, said Lance Garrison, research biologist with NOAA Fisheries.
There is an estuarine North Carolina population that also moves north into Virginia, a southern migratory group off the coast of Virginia and a northern migratory group from Delaware to New York. In addition, there is a genetically distinct, offshore population, he said.
The northern group likely will likely begin migrating to the coast of North Carolina coast in October.
The southern group, which will also [begin] migrating in October, moves as far south as northern Florida, he said."
Copyright 2021 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.


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We manufacture the vast majority of our products at our Linn Creek, Missouri manufacturing plant, which also houses our product development, package and creative design, marketing, sales and customer service operations.
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Ikards Fine Home Furnishings in Las Cruces, NM is an authorized dealer of Aspenhome Products. Aspenhome has evolved from a small family owned home entertainment business based in Phoenix to a full line furniture company specializing in thoughtfully designed innovative products for the way people work, play and relax at home. Recognized as a resource for functional family furniture, the aspenhome collection includes bedroom, dining, home office, home entertainment and occasional furnishings.
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So if you are looking for Aspenhome products in Las Cruces, El Paso, Deming, Silver City, Almogordo and Truth or Consequences, or if you have any questions about Aspenhome products, please feel free to call us at (575) 526-6691 or simply stop by Ikards Fine Home Furnishings at any time and we would be glad to help you.


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Wednesday, February 17, 2010
Racial composition does not imply a group's ideology
and this
Then yeah, I think it's not unreasonable to speculate that there is some latent racism going on in the Tea Party movement.
But he didn't stop there; he went on to say that the tea party protests are mostly composed exclusively of white guys. Then he said something to the effect that if they aren't racist, how come there aren't more black people?
And I say: MEH. It's not as easy as Keith imagines to get a diverse group to support an activist cause, and it's a terrible fallacy to conclude that the movement is racist because it doesn't attract more black people.
I've been through seven years of college with a computer science/engineering background, okay? There were not many women in the programs. Why? Beats me. I wish more women would be computer nerds. I have worked in many companies where there was a good mix of genders, but I've noticed that the women in the companies far more commonly fill non-techie roles: testers, administrators, office assistants, HR, some managers. Stuff like that.
This is not a sexist claim. It's basic statistical observation. It is not a statement of "ought," it is a statement of "is." It's also obviously not universal, as I knew several women who made up, I'm guessing, 5% of my Master's program; and I know plenty of female engineers, including Jen and Elze in the ACA. But still, as I look around my cubicle area at my job, almost everyone within view is male.
By Olbermann's logic, computer software development must be a fundamentally sexist undertaking. The entire practice must espouse some core values that hates and derides women.
It doesn't stop there. The Atheist Experience has a relatively good mix of men and women... by which I mean that among the hosts and cohosts are only twice as many men as women. There are also only twice as many heterosexuals as homosexuals, which is actually overrepresentative of gay people. We have no African-Americans (or "black people," if you're not keen on politically correct language, which I'm not). From my ten year memory of the ACA, I can think of two black women and no black men who were members. (Deepest apologies if you are somebody I left out.)
Edit: There are seven total hosts and cohosts, not six as I first thought, making the ratio of male to female 5:2, not 4:2. Same with sexual orientation.
From what I've heard, black atheists are really quite rare, and activist black atheists are rarer still. They're out there, of course, and Reginald Finley (who is the most famous one I know) has helpfully compiled a list of famous black atheists -- and I recognize almost none of them. (Sorry!) In the last few months I've heard the topic of come up at least twice on the show, prompting a string of black callers from around the country to offer their two cents on the nature of the problem. This puts us white hosts in the uncomfortable situation of having to speculate about what it is about either race or culture that makes it more difficult for black people to come out as nonbelievers.
Lest you think it's just our tiny minority group that shares this "racism," I'll point out that Yearly Kos, the convention for liberal activists sponsored by the liberal blog Daily Kos, has received similar pointless criticism that they are "diversity challenged." That because they can't attract more black members, there is some unspoken whites-only principle in the ideology of the group.
Which is stupid, and should be transparently stupid to someone like Keith Olbermann, who loves Daily Kos and has founder Markos Moulitsas as a regular guest on his show. And yet here he is committing this rotten fallacy on the tea party movement, which only serves to undermine the (IMHO) accurate message that many people in the movement are bigoted asshats.
If there's a lesson to draw here, it's that you can reach the right conclusion for very wrong reasons. Like a person who becomes an atheist because Zeitgeist convinced them of the truth of some very dubious claims about Christianity; once a person finds out that the underlying arguments are terrible, they're likely to dismiss the conclusion.
45 comments:
"There are also only twice as many heterosexuals as homosexuals"
Just because i'm curious, and "not that there's anything wrong with that", but who is the other homosexual on the team (other than Jen)?
I've taken 50:50 and narrowed it down to three Jeff, Martin & Don. So I thought i'd go ahead and ask the audience.By the way, I get similarly annoyed by people claiming that there should be more women in British Parliament, or more asians.
In my view there should be exactly the people there that deserve to be there, regardless of gender or race, or whether they have milk with their coffee. It should no more be an advantage to be a particular type of human being than it should be a disadvantage.
"Positive" discrimination is still discrimination afterall.MORE importantly...did you see the bit about the tea bag signs in Captain America?? ;-) haha I love the expert dude he talked to. I agreed with him completely. The was also more talk of racism in that party.
(You can watch it here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/02/17/wednesday-morning-runaround-2/)
(PS Yikes! I sure HOPE you didn't accidentally reveal new info!!)(PS Yikes! I sure HOPE you didn't accidentally reveal new info!!)
Ah well! Just in case he has, let me lighten the mood with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16wtwjyTzjAApart from Charlie Parker, I know none of these black atheists either, but then again I don't know many famous atheists and the ones I know better are dead (Sartre, Camus, etc.). But yes, Olbermann made a stupid mistake and being right on most things does not excuse being wrong on one thing. There are enough reasons to attack Teabaggers, there is no need to use intellectual dishonesty.
ReplyDeleteHey Russell,
I liked this post, and I completely agree with it. The Left cannot allow itself to become like the right, where hyperbole and sensationalism rule. We have to be tight with the facts, and keep on message. Something the Obama administration hasn't done enough of. They have made generally good economic decisions, and some good scientific funding decisions, but they haven't explained it well enough.
For example, last night I was listening to the "Quick Hitts" podcast from October 2008. Dave Hitt was complaining about the stimulus package, initially by the Bush administration, but of course the Obama administration has further pushed. However, the Obama administration seems to have lacked any sufficiently good way of framing it. It should be pointed out that the Republicans financial mismanagement was a big factor in this. However, despite that a good explanation of the "fix" is still required. One I came up with is this; imagine a large dam, with a reservoir behind it. This dam has been mismanaged for years, and it starting to leak. As the government, you have two choices, to pay a lot of money to repair it, if the water company can't, OR to allow it to fail, destroying the village in the valley below. This is the way I feel Obama should explain it to people - sure it will be expensive to fix, but not putting that money in is really not a viable option, because the consequences of failure would be so much worse.
Okay, well that was one specific example, but keeping to the facts and using good, robust framing could really help the Dems out a lot.I wish he wouldn't say stupid things like this, because it takes away from when he gets it right. It's important, at least I think, that there be someone calling the Republicans on their ridiculous crap who isn't a comedian, but they tend to get labeled in a fit of equivocation with nuts like Glenn Beck.
Then he says something stupid, making it harder to defend.
And as Computer Science student, I'll tell you this anecdotally, in my lone second-year class, computer architecture and digital design, there are about 30 students. There is one female.Russell -- I think you're overreacting, and being unfair to KO. When you have a small sample size (say, 7 co-hosts), it's not surprising that you might have a lack of diversity.
When there are hundreds of thousands of teabaggers, you're past the point where it's just coincidence that everybody's a white guy.
I'm going with Olbermann on this one.Olbermann's been kind of hit-or-miss for me, lately. I was hoping his discussion of the Teabaggers would focus more on the obvious racism displayed in signs and surveys, and less on a fallacious question about demographics. Last night was worse, as he talked about the terrible threats of nuclear power, bringing up the spectres of Three Mile Island and Chernobyl with a guest, both of whom were apparently totally ignorant of any science about either one or the current state of nuclear power technology. Blind fearmongering based on a misunderstanding of decades-old disasters that can't happen in modern reactors is not the way to energy independence and shouldn't be a cornerstone of liberal politics.
ReplyDelete@Andrew: It's not that there isn't a racist element or that the racist element isn't what is keeping black people from joining this movement. It's that the disproportionate number of white to black people is not a good reason to believe there is a racist element. Which is what Keith was implying.
ReplyDeleteTom Foss
Yes, I agree, regarding nuclear. It bugs the hell out of me when liberals overstate things (nuclear / food production / animals right / global warming). Don't get me wrong, there are legitimate concerns about all of these things, but we have to realise that nothing is perfect - we will always have to compromise some amount of safety for reality. If we want to combat global warming, nuclear is necessary. Even James Lovelock has said as much, and he hates things like nuclear. Still, we need to not be using fossil fuels for our electricity (happily I live in Japan, where a large proportion of our power is nuclear. Of course, all the rice produces lots of methane. Swings, roundabouts, anyone?). Sure, a nuke goes up and that's bad news for a few hundred thousand people. Storage facilities break? Could be bad. Remember, there is a fair amount of radiation in the background anyway. However, to do nothing about global warming could result in the deaths of tens or hundreds of millions. Nuclear is a good option. The only other viable option is reducing our standard of living - something which would certainly have to happen if resources are to be more uniformly distributed.Not to mention that the current third generation of nuke plants can't possibly melt down like the older ones and they're recursive enough that they can use their own waste materials for further fission until they get down to a handful of actinides (if I remember correctly) that have half lives of only a few hundred years, as opposed to the thousands of years it takes for wastes from older plants to bleed off their radioactivity.
And, in the states at least, the only way to make the ubersafe and almost entirely waste-free fourth generation ever actually happen is to start building third gen plants and get the industry funded, moving, and profitable.While I am not convinced that the teabagger movement is racist, I certainly can see the members as such. That does not make it a racist movement. I f there is an all gay bowling league, that doesn't make bowling gay. I can completely understand people from minority groups not wanting to associate with the teabaggers.
As for the Atheist split, I am not sure what causes that. I am part of a group of Atheists in a city with a sizable black population, and we are almost completely comprised of whites, though our gender make-up is about 50/50.
Perhaps open Atheism is the luxury of middle class whites? If you are a minority in this country you have enough problems to deal with, no sense in drawing fire for your lack of religion. God is not great, but his fan club is huge.*face palm on the nuclear thing* Good lord, Liberals...why is this hard to understand. Yes despite the high half life of its waste, it still produces pound for pound less waste than combustion fuel. It also has other benefits
a) it produces more energy per unit of fuel used
b) To my knowledge we're not at 'peak' of it's fuel sources
c) its waste is containable, unlike combustion which gets released as gaseous pollution. We can in theory contain and isolate contaminates from nukeys.
d) Even with Cherynoble and the like, nuclear is STILL safer. The only difference is that those killed by nukes went all up in solid doses compared to the death/illness by inches that combustion pollution causes. It's like airplanes, by the numbers they're damn safer than cars...it's just that when things go wrong it makes a big Michael Bay display.
seriously why are liberals so goddamn stupid about this? Especially environmentalists. Nuclear IS an environmental friendly option.
I blame Captain Planet. YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS CAPTAIN PLANET!Kazim I'm sure you're aware that Monday's "Special Comment" wasn't the only time KO has touched on the subject of racism @ the Tea Parties.
Although that's the only real point he made the other night, I don't think it's accurate to state that KO's argument is simply "The Tea Parties are disproportionally white, and are, therefore, racist" and nothing more.
Have you heard of Tim Wise? The article "Racism, Right-Wing Rage and the Politics of White Nostalgia" I link below is a several months old, but I think clarifies the issue quite a bit:
P.S., I'm not sure if my link takes you straight to the article, but it's there and should be easy to find.So... how come there aren't more black people in the tea party groups? Why aren't there more women in CS? Why aren't there more black people who espouse atheism? I think those questions are worth addressing. Immediately jumping to racism on the part of the parties involved is definitely a stretch, but I don't think it hurts to consider those types of factors.
I've never watched Olbermann, so I think I'm missing a few things. ^_^
Just because observation shows that a particular proportion of different groups exist in a given area doesn't mean that there isn't sexism or racism at play somewhere. It can certainly be true that everyone you work with is male, that the observation is not sexist and a fact (although I'm not quite sure how it's statistical), and that you and they are not sexist. It can also be true that sexism occurs elsewhere so that those particular results could still be based on sexism.
If you're saying that Olbermann is making a faulty post hoc/third cause argument about a complex subject that probably involves a significant number of factors, including cultural and social dimensions, then I agree with that (based on the information here).
I think that the argument that sexism in CS means that "the entire practice must espouse some core values that hates and derides women" is a straw man, though. I don't believe that sexism or accusations of sexism are necessarily that blatant. There very well may be sexist aspects to the lack of females in CS and those aspects would probably be very hard to find and very hard to address (and probably occur elsewhere). What I'm not clear on is whether you're saying that the claim is the type of argument that Olbermann is making (particularly the sexism=blatant discrimination part) or if you're saying that. ^_^
I can also say that the group he questions certainly has racist elements- even from the pictures that you displayed (which I would categorize as blatant rather than latent :P)- and that those racist elements probably have something to do with the lack of black people associating with the tea party.
A-Astrologist, I think the problem is that both of those statements from your first comment could be correct. There probably should be more Asians or women in British Parliament, if all things were equal. There should also be exactly the people that deserve to be there. The problem is that one might expect those two things to be the same. The complicated bit is that we don't know why they're not, and people don't have good ways of addressing those issues.
I think the ACA has done a pretty good job in addressing some of these issues with regards to atheism, when it's come up.One thing I love about Russell is his exceptional commitment to intellectual integrity. Pointing out this sort of things is hard for some people. Often when we agree with somebody we tend no to criticize his arguments as it could weaken our position. Is hard for me, for example, to refute stupid atheist arguments. I try to do it anyway.
Obviously I listen to Keith regularly, and no I wasn't saying that this was his only argument. In fact, I heard all kinds of info about the actual evidence for the tea partiers being racist FROM either Keith or Rachel. Nevertheless, quoting Guillaume for truth: "Being right on most things does not excuse being wrong on one thing."Every time the right-wing media did a story about an anti-war protest during the Bush administration, there were pictures of vacuous kids holding up "Bush is Hitler" signs and generally making the entire movement look immature and wacko.
Now, in the stories about the teabaggers, you see quite a bit of craziness here as well. And, living in a red state, I have been exposed to many sane tea baggers.
My question is, has there been any real evidence that the teabaggers are more likely to be racist, or to cling to batshit crazy ideas?
I'm not defending them, but I honestly have not seen any evidence for anything more than the "f--- you! It's every man for his self" mentality.I'm about as far to "the left" as it's possible to be, and generally, I love Keith. He's third only to Stewart and Colbert at throwing right-wing hypocrites' (redundant) own words back in their faces. But there's no denying that Keith is weirdly hyper-sensitive about racial stuff. I remember the uproar about that political cartoon that, I'm sorry, I just don't think was racially-motivated. I think the cartoonist was mocking the stimulus bill as being unintelligent as though simply produced by a chimp banging a keyboard, and failed to make the extra connections that Olbermann and Jesse Jackson and all the other talking heads were shrilling about and insisting that he MUST have known. Hanlon's Razor, guys.
Like you say, I think there are perfectly good reasons to conclude that the tea party movement is xenophobic in general, and largely racist as a subset of that, but the composition of the movement is not necessarily the best of it.
Still, "taxpayer = niggar" can't be helping to attract non-whites, can it?"I think the problem is that both of those statements from your first comment could be correct. There probably should be more Asians or women in British Parliament, if all things were equal."
a)All things aren't equal. Both Males and Females tend to be more likely to pursue some careers than others. Maybe the same can be said for different ethnicities.
b)To honestly suggest that there "probably should" be more Asians or women in British Parliament, you need have a decent idea of how many women or Asians wish to become MPs, and you also need to be able to measure to some degree their suitability for the role. Until you can do that reliably, you cannot present any logical argument which starts with "there are only so many x in parliament" and concludes with "therefore x are being discriminated against".
"There should also be exactly the people that deserve to be there. The problem is that one might expect those two things to be the same."
Only if you were to look at things simplistically. You might also expect 1000 coin tosses to come up with exactly 500 heads. But this will rarely be so.
"The complicated bit is that we don't know why they're not, and people don't have good ways of addressing those issues."
Indeed. Which is why positive discrimination is such a bad thing. After all, it is quite possible that even though the numbers are seemingly low for Asians and women, that Caucasian men are still being discriminated against in the guise of political correctness, and the numbers for these in Parliament should be even higher.- Anonymous2/18/2010 2:37 PM
Oooh. It looks like I've been outed.
I haven't been open with that fact (or a couple of others about me) on the show because I think they're more of a distraction than a help to the topic of atheism. I'd rather people focus on what I'm saying than who I am or my other attributes.
BTW, I'm far from closeted in my real life. I think that's why Russell was comfortable dropping the name. I was running a gay and lesbian student group at my university over 20 years ago--back when doing such a thing wasn't so easy. Read my testimonial on the ACA web site for some insights in to how being gay led be to be an atheist. Kazim: "and I'm pretty sure I'm not accidentally revealing any new information"
Don has already pre-empted me, but I was going to say - didn't Matt 'out' him by mentioning this in the pre-show, over UStream, just moments before that show was broadcast?
I remember him mentioning to Don that some people has been wondering who the other gay person was.I don't watch Keith Olbermann, but I found your article interesting. I'm black, an atheist, and a woman, BTW. Those blatantly racist tea party signs you showed made me lol, though. I guess there aren't too many outspoken black atheists because in some ways, we already get enough shit just for being black. When you add atheism to the mix, it gets worse for some of us.
ReplyDelete"And to this I respond with; why aren't there any nuclear power supporters at the liberal rallies?"
Have we entered a tautology? I'm into ecological causes and I am in favor of the high tech route. The problem i've seen is most of the lefties into the 'cause' want to use herbs as medicine and tree moss as fuel.Personally I think the dynamics of race is focused too much on black and white. While I understand where Russel is coming from you would think that millions of people from an ideological perspective would have at least SOME diversity. To me it's not even just a white/black thing. You don't see any Latinos, Asians, Indians, Middle Easterners, Native Americans, immigrants, etc. It's pretty much exclusively white. While I can understand people not wanting to label the movement as racist, I wish people weren't so quick to write it off as some type of ambiguous coincidence that can't be examined through a racial lens.
To me it seems like the elephant in the room people want to ignore or write off. KO probably could have expressed his thoughts in a more rational manner but I really don't think his reasoning was that far off the mark. It kind of reminds me back in 2008 when you saw the Democratic National Convention and it was just swarming with diversity. Then you saw the Republican National Convention and trying to pick out a minority was like trying to find Waldo. And pretty much NO ONE wanted to talk about it. I think I heard Chris Matthews mention it once briefly but that was it.
These days racism is so subtle and covert that it seems people are more willing to give the benefit of the doubt more often than not when it comes to accusations of racism. Despite many of the blatant inequalities that occur in this country along racial lines. Although I suppose historically speaking that's always been the case. I just find it disheartening and sometimes extremely irritating how when an accusation of racism is made, even in some of the most blatant occurrences, there isn't nearly as much vitriol directed at the repeat defenders and apologists of such behavior as their is directed at the people who are willing to call it out. And that goes for racists and anti-racists as well.
It's a subject that makes people uncomfortable to begin with, and even the most well intentioned individuals I believe are more inclined to try to ignore/downplay/write off such occurrences than to actually address them, eloquently or not so eloquently.
So while I can understand why some people might disagree with KO's position, I still respect the man for taking on the subject no matter how ham fisted he was when doing it. Because actually talking about it is more than most people in this country are willing to do IMO.@ Jaesel
I disagree. People like Limbaugh and Beck are all too ready to label people as racist. They're ignorant of what the word means and are actively trying to dumb it down to be meaningless, but gosh darn it they're calling people on it!
On the teabagger question I thought I'd just throw it in that my school is the proud alma matta of one of the Acorn Undercover Agents...specifically one of the ones that got caught trying to bug a federal building. He was the founder of the school's local conservative rag. In it they frequently accused people of being racist (mainly any black person who spoke out against racial problems...cause you know talking about it is racist to white people), and published an election day issue after Obama's election showing the 4 horsemen with the title "IS THE END NEAR!?". I don't know about you but I'm very proud to learn how that guy turned out.
That's sort of the problem I have with conservationism (and the same problem I have with Christianity)...those really into it on the far right are what i'd call evil or in some cases psychotically evil (No offense George). It's those who aren't very right that I think have decent points and are reasonable.
The far left elements can be equally polarizing and stupid but due to their sort of dovish and accepting nature the most many of them due is annoy me with woo.@Ing
Anyone can label someone a racist. Just like anyone can label someone a rapist. Just because the accusation in some cases are false or misleading, doesn't mean all accusations should be written off.
There is a plethora of evidence to back up what KO said during his special comment. The same cannot be said for Beck's comments about Obama having a "deep-seeded hatred of white people" or Limbaugh claiming that a fight over a seat on a school bus was motivated by racism.
Also you aren't going to ever see those two calling out or acknowledging racism directed at minorities. They're simply playing up to their audience. The same argument can be made of KO I imagine, but like I said there is MUCH more evidence to back up his claim which is more than you can say for RL or GB.@Ing.
I do not know who the racist is. Who are you referring to? I do believe that the conservative movement is socially darwinistic, and that their policies are wrong, but I think the biggest hate they have is toward liberals. Had Barack Obama been a Republican, I feel that the vast majority of these people would be at home talking about how great a president he is and patting themselves on the back for being "the party of Lincoln".
Part of my disagreement, here, is that much of the argument I have seen has centered around either "they favor policies that are not in the best interests of African-Americans, therefore, they are racist", or "they're racist because they hate a black president who is a former law-school professor from a big city, is very liberal and who has spent time in a foreign country". (Can you be sure which part of that sentence they hate?)
You could very well be right, but I haven't seen it, yet. I have seen the media showing only the dumbest and most extreme members of this group (which is how they report on every group).@ Jasel
Yup, you're right. My point though was that while honest people have a sort of resistance to calling subtle racism or endemic racism when they see it (or in the case of the tea baggers, Whisky Tango Foxtrot out in the open racism bubbling to the surface) there is a concentrated movement to make the word meaningless.- Anonymous2/20/2010 3:07 PM
Black atheist, here! *raises ebony fist*
We're rare and usually closeted, since black American culture is typically centered around the church. Those of us who are "church homeless" are viewed as confused, and I've even been accused of hating black people and betraying my race. True story.
I'm also a *real* libertarian. This tea party nonsense is a turnoff for me, because it seems less about small government, liberty, and the Constitution and more about getting together to bash Obama under the guise of rightful dissent. This nationwide tea tantrum is about a decade overdue.
I'm all about taking the piss out of Washington, but this ain't the way. Very nice. I would add that even though you find racists in the teaparty movement, it is wrong headed to think that just because there are racists that it is a racist movement. You find racists in the Democrat party, as well as the Republican party. Does that make either party racist? What makes a movement racist is the goals of the movement.
You're going to find assholes in any group of people you find. The presence of assholes doesn't make everyone an asshole.@ Godlessons, yeah but when they're head speakers....
@Hawkmom (the Slayer): I'm sort of in the boat where I'd have politic/ideals that might be 'libertarian' but I am not touch the label due to certain people taking a crap all over it.
On the taking piss out of the government, part of the problem is due to how our system grew. WE have what I can only call 'evolutionary baggage' from our past as a series of vaguely associated colonies. The little quirks that grew from this severely hold back our efficiency. But ALL systems have that, in polysci class they referred to it as 'path dependency'. Reform that moves forward rather than trying to undo the past is needed over voting in new blokes.I can agree with you on some of the 9-11 claims and conspiracies regarding Zeitgeist parts 2, 3 & addendum but, I cannot agree with hardly anything you've said about ZG part 1. I've done my own research long before the Zeitgeist movie was ever heard of and your claims are wrong - embarrassingly wrong and you're embarrassing all atheists by repeating the nonsense I've seen in your youtube video #634. The comments there by 'Hercules2345' proved that.
I notice that most here at the atheist experience consistently commit the fallacy of 'guilt by association' by conflating part 1/Acharya S with everything else. Acharya S had nothing to do with parts 2 or 3. She has consistently substantiated part 1 when it has come from her own work and I've yet to see anyone here go to her website or videos or forum or read any of her books or even make any attempt to contact her at all. So, the anti-Acharya S position here is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets. As an atheist, I find your website & videos regarding ZG1 & Acharya S a monumental disappointment that isn't any better than fundy Xians. Take that as constructive criticism.
If you have any interest in being honest invite her on your show via the phone or something but, it would be wise if you knew her work first or you will look like a dumb-ass. Or do a show on her mythicist position.
Read Acharya's Frequently Asked Questions at her Freethought Nation forum.
Read this FAQ & you'll see why atheists should not be SMEARING her: "Do atheists disagree with Acharya's basic premise?"
Search for the "Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence" thread and the post "The New ZEITGEIST Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)"
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Fedora 14 Boost 1.44 Uplift
This feature brings Boost 1.44.0 to Fedora 14.
- Name: Denis Arnaud
- Email: email@example.com
Current status
- Targeted release: Fedora 14 (and its Feature List)
- Last updated: 2010-09-07
- Percentage of completion: 100%
Detailed Description
That feature aims at synchronising the top of the Fedora tree with the current Boost upstream release. The current Fedora release is boost-1.41.0, folded into devel 2009-11-17.
As of Fedora 13, the canonical sources used for the package switched from the official Boost release (with BJam build) to an alternate repository (with CMake build, for boost-1.41.0). That alternate repository seems to be no longer actively maintained.
The challenge is therefore to go on packaging with CMake. If that fails, Fedora packaging will have to switch back to BJam build. In case it is successful, however, Fedora 14 should ship with Boost 1.44.
Some background:
- Boost package in Fedora
- Boost build status in Koji
- Fedora 13 Boost-1.41 Feature
- Boost ships with an ad-hoc build system named BJam. The Boost development community is exploring alternate build and source code control approaches, including the use of more standard build and release management tools like git and CMake. Which, frankly, the Fedora boost maintainers wish to support. Fortunately for us, a team of developers had worked for over a year on a more standard way to build Boost, thanks to the CMake tool, namely Boost-CMake. However, the activity of that group has stalled since December 2009. Some members of the group would help any initiative, but nobody has taken the lead yet.
Technical details are available in a Bugzilla-filed (#607615) enhancement request.
Benefit to Fedora
Syncing with upstream keeps Fedora current. This is part of regular package maintenance.
Upstream sources for Boost releases are evaluated, along with alternate repositories. One is selected, packaged according to Fedora package conventions and cognizant of existing package practices, tested, evaluated, and then built in Koji. This is then pushed to fedora devel. Dependencies are rebuilt. The unicorns are once again happy, and can go back to drinking champagne and complaining about slow build times.
How To Test
- No special hardware is needed.
- Testing of the Boost packages themselves requires the host system to have the boost-test package installed. Testing can then be enabled at package build time by passing --with tests. Note that that testing phase should be done only once per type of architecture and distribution version.
- Once the Boost packages have been built and checked according to the previous step, testing simply consists in installing them on Fedora 14 and checking that it does not break any other package dependency.
- Expected results: all the packages depending on Boost (for instance, gnash, pingus, kdeedu or k3d) should work properly on Fedora 14.
User Experience
Expected to remain largely the same.
There are a large number of dependencies for the boost package in fedora. Here is a non-exhaustive list.
aqsis asc avogadro barry bastet bmpx CGAL chess conexus dchroot deluge easystroke enblend esperanza fuse-encfs fusecommon 1:fife glob2 glom gnash gnote gnuradio gpsdrive HippoDraw hugin libpst-python LuxRender lyx k3d kdeedu linkage mapnik Miro mkvtoolnix openvrml pingus player pokerth pyexiv2 pymilia python-gnash python-polybori python-tag qbittorent qpidc QuantLib rb_libtorrent rcsserver3d rcsslogplayer rcssserver referencer rmol schroot simspark soci source-highlight spring torium twinkle urge usrp vegastrike vigra-python wesnoth widelands wp_tray xmms2 xsd
Rebuilt for f14, +24 hours
asc chess deluge fuse-encfs gnash mapnik pingus python-tag referencer source-highlight
Contingency Plan
Non-completion will result in the F13 boost version, 1.41.0, being used in F14.
- Boost: http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_44_0
- Boost-CMake: https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/wiki/CMake
Release Notes
- Boost 1.44.0 Release Notes
- Boost 1.43.0 Release Notes
- Boost 1.42.0 Release Notes
Comments and Discussion
- See Talk:Features/F14Boost144
- BZ: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=607615 (for Fedora 13 and Boost-1.41: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=529563)
- Status
- Boost-1.44.0-1, corresponding to the final 1.44.0 version of Boost, has been successfully built:
- Rawhide: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2416683
- F14: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2416759 => http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/boost/1.44.0/1.fc14/
- An alignment issue occurred, when packages built with boost-1.44.0-0.5 were running with newer boost-1.44.0-1 package. That alignment issue provoked segmentation fault, as witnessed for instance in hugin/nona (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=624937). The solution was to let boost-1.44.0-1 slip through to the Fedora package repository and mirrors, and to rebuild the packages dependent on it.
- Historical context:
- All the Boost-dependent packages had been successfully rebuilt with a Boost tar-ball afar from pristine final 1.44.0 release: boost-1.44.0-0.5
- The final version of Boost 1.44.0 has been built for the first time in boost-1.44.0-0.6 (rejected/unpushed from the Fedora package repository thanks to the segmentation fault issue), and then in boost-1.44.0-1. That latter has been pushed into stable for F14 (and is the current package on Rawhide).
- Koji build task for F14
- Bodhi package DB update for F14
- Boost-1.44.0-1, corresponding to the final 1.44.0 version of Boost, has been successfully built: