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Thought it was a fun one today, even with our original big surprise having to be pre-empted. Have at it, gang.
Sunday, December 13, 2009
38 comments:
After showing why I am not public speaker material, getting flustered after having to condense my argument in the last minute, I'll just put the outline here:
My point was gonna be about the similarities between Nazi Germany in spirituality and Christianity. While people make the argument that the Nazis were sufficiently different as not to be considered, say catholics, the amount of differences were not greater than than which exists between existing branches of Xianity. Simply put, if protestants, evangelicals, methodists, catholics and eastern orthodox can all fit under the christian label, why not the Nazis?I started writing an email to disagree with the way you had made the distinction between weak and strong atheism and then determined during the writing that I didn't disagree very much after all.
My issue was that Russell equated "strong atheism" with "certainty," and I'm concerned that this conflates the strong/weak atheism distinction with the gnostic/agnostic distinction. While I agree with Martin's distinction that it's possible to be "certain" about specific self-contradictory god claims, I think it's also possible to be a strong atheist -- i.e. someone who not only rejects theistic claims as unjustified but also goes so far as to make the active claim of believing that no god exists -- who is simultaneously agnostic.
I believe that all evidence indicates that we live in a universe that is unthinking and unfeeling and that no god exists at all, making me a "strong" atheist, but I would still not say I am 100% certain that no god exists, because like Dawkins (who, by the way, I would categorize as a firmly "strong" atheist who believes actively in a godless universe rather than passively rejecting god-claims as presented), I don't think that absolute certainty is an intellectually tenable position.
This goes to the distinction between gnostic and agnostic and how the popular label of "agnostic" as a statement of belief is nonsensical, which is the main reason I take issue with it. The less belief vs. strength of belief are intertwined, the easier it is for people to understand the atheist position, particularly the position of the "weak" atheist.MVP: Just thought I'd go ahead and get the thread going for folks who could watch the live stream, not to deprive the rest of you who must wait for the podcast. Sorry. It will come.
BathTub: Prepare to be enlightened. As soon as the photographic evidence turns up in my inbox. (At least one of us had a camera!)I wouldn't say that nothing is inviolable. But I would say freedom of expression and conscience are, inasmuch as I believe they should in no way be curtailed. But since I think I know where you might be going with your question, allow me to reiterate that criticism and even mockery are not curtailment. The AFA is completely free to boycott whomever they choose. Just as we are completely free to point and laugh when they do it over silly, imaginary "wars on Christmas."
And let me also ask that, to avoid thread drift, if you wish to keep discussing this topic, please do so on the appropriate thread.I think the reason we don't have too many atheists getting onto a Hard 7 is a little thing called "intellectual honesty."
Personally I think that theist caller would have gotten it a little bit more if one of the guys had said "look, we don't claim this to an *absolute* degree of certainty."But since I think I know where you might be going with your question, allow me to reiterate that criticism and even mockery are not curtailment. The AFA is completely free to boycott whomever they choose. Just as we are completely free to point and laugh when they do it over silly, imaginary "wars on Christmas."
Oh, no no, that's not where I was going with it at all.
I absolutely agree with you that criticism and mockery aren't curtailment or "censorship" in any sense. I'm sorry for confusing things by bringing up that other post, you just used the word "inviolable" there and it reminded me of you using it -- in a completely different context, I am fully aware -- on the show, and compelled me to ask about it.
I was just curious because I personally side more or less with Pat Condell on the issue -- if anything is "sacred," it's freedom of expression and conscience, and when you said "nothing is inviolable" (or words, it seemed, to that effect) it piqued my curiosity. Obviously if I'm with Pat I'm not going to consider criticism or mockery to be a curtailment, but more an exercise of free expression.
Believe me, I'm on your side and no concern troll. I was just curious, and interested in some clarification. :)Well, when I say "nothing is inviolable" I'm referring to the ideas/beliefs themselves and their merits, not the right of people to hold and express them. Kind of like Voltaire's old principle of defending your right to say whatever you wish though I may disagree with it.
Didn't think you were trolling.Before starting a debate on Dawkin's position... this is what he has to say about it himself:
Let us, then, take the idea of a spectrum of probabilities seriously, and place human judgments about the existence of God along it, between two extremes of opposite certainty. The spectrum is continuous, but it can be represented by the following seven milestones along the way.
1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
2. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'
3. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
5. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical.'
6. Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
7. Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'
I'd be surprised to meet many people in category 7, but I include it for symmetry with category 1, which is well populated. [...] I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7 – I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.[Richard Dawkins, "The God Delusion"]
@Philosopher's Mess
Where's the double standard exactly?
You perhaps believe that all theistic claims (of which atheism is a rejection) are inexplicably linked to other supernatural claims? That would indeed explain why so many believers seem to not only believe in god X but also in phenomenon Y and Z (e.g. astrology, vampires and ghosts) even though they often contradict the prevalent dogma and their respective holy books say nothing of that sort to begin with.
Nevertheless, those are actually different independent claims. Atheism doesn't address them at all. It's not a world-view. There's no dogma. But the host are humans and as such do have other world-views, beliefs and skills and use those to work on those claims.
Or are you saying Atheists are not allowed to have other beliefs as well?
Perhaps some of the confusion stems from a misunderstanding of the show's title? It's not trying to purport a wide statement about all atheists (and how could it?) but rather think about it like this:
Every Sunday you can turn on your TV and in front of you inside that little box you can see two particular atheists. Like in a zoo you can look at them, listen to them, study them, call them, challenge them; in short: experience them. Ergo: Atheist Experience.
In any case: "Sledgehammering" on most supernatural beliefs is easy: If it manifests, it can be investigated. If it can be investigated, it's part of nature. If it's part of nature, it's not supernatural. Consequently, since it doesn't manifest and cannot be investigated, why do "you" charlatan claim to know anything about it in the first place?
Furthermore, never ever has there been a single bit of compelling evidence in favor of those claims; to the contrary, every investigation so far either shows nothing or reveals someone as a fraud. Randy still has his million bucks and recently, even Uri Geller conceded that he lied for more than three decades and admitted that it was all bogus.I almost wish you had put a unicorn in his mouth.
My goodness what a blowhard. He was so deep into thought that he completely missed the pedestrian meaning of the word "positive". I bet in his daily life he misses completely obvious things in somehow not thinking on his "level". "Well how can you know I wanted ONE grilled cheese sandwich when I say I would like one because you can't define one and...blah blah". Dude, come back off that ledge sometimes. It's a great ability to be able to think on such a level, but you can't live that way or you'll go mad.- Anonymous12/14/2009 5:25 AM
Wow, was just listened to the show. This problem of people confusing abstract concepts with something that physically exists in reality (reification) seems to be happening way more frequently these days.
Coincidently (or maybe a miracle/prophesy if you're into that sort of thing) i wrote this for the TAG argument page on www.ironchariots.org no less that 2 weeks ago:
"To summarise, a simple analogy to the logical absolutes would be abstract mathematics. The number 4 is "transcendent" by the TAG definition. It isn't a 'thing' that 'exits'. It cannot be photographed, frozen, weighed, or measured. It is always the number 4. It always remains the same. It always remains true."
"However, if there were no minds in existence to conceive of the number 4, the shape we currently call a square would still have the same number of sides it has now. It would not physically gain or loose any sides. The abstraction of the number 4 is conceptual, but the concept isn't dependent on a transcendent mind for the real world underpinning of the concept to remain true."
-murphy - Anonymous12/14/2009 7:19 AM
Thanks for letting me announce the local group, Atheists Helping the Homeless. We'd love to have more volunteers or you can either reach out and help by going to http://www.atheistvolunteers.org/Austin or http://www.youtube.com/user/aajoeyjo
ReplyDelete With the second caller I sadly actually think i picked up on what he was getting at.
a) you argue from methodological if not philosophical naturalism
b) he believes that there is a Platonian world of forms and world of shapes
c) therefore he believes in extra-universal realities that are physically real, are not conceivable to humans save as abstracts, and by nature affect the universe. ie, ONE is not just a label we put on a single unit of a like objects, there is a physical source of ONEness outside our universe. numbers are real not just as a concept but as a physical reality.
d) you're philistines because of the above.
Of course Oscams Razor comes into play here. either
a) abstract concepts like numbers are abstract concepts representing heuristics and mental models for examining the universe
b) There are vast real parts of reality we can't see, yet effect us and are physical and are indistinguishable from a mental construct.
You were too kind in letting him go so far with this to quote Novella "Magical thinking". He dressed it up in classical philosophical buzz words but he might as well have been arugeing for Ze Sommerland or Faysworth.
My answer to him is that yes the concept of one exists and it exists physically in the synapse connections in the brain that make up that concept. If you remove them from the brain, isolate them, put them in a jar, you will have isolated "oneness". You can do the same thing with "love", "happiness" "a Child's laugh" and even "Pauli Shore".
He's basically looking at his computer screen and saying that somewhere out there there is a room decorated with flying toasters and covered in magical clicking icons. He doesn't realize that the physical reality of his OS exists in really tiny electron sequences."I think the Atheism hard vs. Atheism soft discussion is interesting. I see what the critics were saying. The show does operate under a double standard, claiming atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief, but then you guys sledge hammer all other supernatural beliefs."
I don't see that as a double standard. Soft Atheism is starting with the null hypothesis. Any supernatural claim must be presented and convincing before it is accepted. If giving those claims the scrutiny they deserve when raised is sledge hammering to it than I don't see that unreasonable."My point was gonna be about the similarities between Nazi Germany in spirituality and Christianity. While people make the argument that the Nazis were sufficiently different as not to be considered, say catholics, the amount of differences were not greater than than which exists between existing branches of Xianity. Simply put, if protestants, evangelicals, methodists, catholics and eastern orthodox can all fit under the christian label, why not the Nazis?"
While you're getting into "Godwin's law" / "Hitler ate Sugar" I think you have hit upon something valid. Read "Flight From Freedom" which explores the sado-masacistic tendencies in portions of populations and makes them gravitate towards fundamentalism/fascism due to a fear of the responsibilities of democracy.I wants to elaborate a bit more.
'God' as a concept, throughout time, has been used as a placeholder, a wildcard, a "I don't know" for a multitude of seemingly supernatural events... say, lightning, for example. Time and time again, these attributions have been falsified.
"Being wrong", to me, is not a very useful concept. Nor is it useful as a substitution for a regular placeholder/wildcard. We don't need another word for "We don't know". It's called "We don't know".
For example, "God" is not a useful explanation for the beginnings of the universe. There's multiple possibilities for the beginning of the universe.
1) God done it.
2) It's an unending chain of big bang to heat death.
3) The first mover was the big bang
4) There's another natural mechanism that we don't know about yet.
When one just picks god out of those 4, it's not useful.. it's arbitrary. It doesn't explain anything. It's just a person picking what he/she wants the answer to be.
In reality, the current status is "I don't know", not "I don't know therefore a supernatural fartknocker done it.".@Ing "I don't see that as a double standard. Soft Atheism is starting with the null hypothesis. Any supernatural claim must be presented and convincing before it is accepted. If giving those claims the scrutiny they deserve when raised is sledge hammering to it than I don't see that unreasonable."
From what I understood, the double standard is that the show says "We just don't believe", then then goes onto dismiss all these various gods as false, which isn't very "Neutral". It seems, from the external viewer to be asserting that the gods don't exist. Or something like that.
The problem for this supposed double standard goes back to the "IF you don't believe in gawd, why do you hate him so much?". They juxtapose our irritation with the followers' deeds with the supernatural entity they worship.
What we rail against is their beliefs, irrationality, deceit, misrepresentation, willful ignorance, and so on. It's the way their beliefs form, and are sustained, that are battled on the show.
They could be right about a god existing, ultimately, while at the same time being right for the wrong reasons. It's the reasons that are at issue, not whether the god exists or not.I have a problem with the whole "strong atheism" and "weak atheism" thing. Strong atheism isn't atheism, it's a belief, whereas atheism is the exact opposite, the lack of a belief. Instead of referring to a belief that there are no gods as a contradictory type of atheism, just lose the label and simply say that you believe there aren't any gods. It would help make things clearer to those who aren't familiar with what the word "atheism" actually means.
Also, I haven't listened to the episode yet, so this might have been discussed on the show. I just wanted to go ahead and throw my two cents in.@JT
No, it's not a double standard. Present something with evidence, IE a reason to believe it exists, and that's accepted. Saying unfounded assertion is unfounded assertion is not activily attacking it.
Look at it this way, every other fucking fact on the planet is scrutinized for evidence. If I say "The Sky is filled with delicious cheese" you have grounds to say call me an idiot due to my lack of evidence and the abundance of contary evidence. For some reason labling these claims as 'spiritual or supernatural' now makes it untouchable? Any other claim is subject to scrutiny. It's a double standard to let bullshit slide by because it's dressed up in a Woowoo mask.
At the end of the day the two claims
"we should kill Xpeople because they are immoral savages"
"Everyone should be atheist or die"
"We should stop giving vaccines because Xgod says so and homeopathy works even better!"
have AS much grounds to be criticized. All are stupid and harmful."They could be right about a god existing, ultimately, while at the same time being right for the wrong reasons. It's the reasons that are at issue, not whether the god exists or not."
If someone provides ANYTHING other than the "wrong reasons" then the idea of god is worth discussing. No sooner.I was the first caller yesterday and I found something Martin (I think) said very curious. I've always thought (perhaps, subsconsciously, wanted to think) that Christians and other people who attacked Darwin for his supposed views on race were just ignorant or misinformed. But Martin commented that religious people are so desperate to disprove evolution that they'll use anything. Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? I'd never considered that before.
I don't doubt it for a second.
Darwin wasn't the first guy to propose evolution, exactly. He's the first one to propose a non-God powered explanation.
It's basically a direct contradiction to the Biblical Genesis, which is like Christianity 101.
It's actually an insult to many of these people. My former employer commented once that he just doesn't want to believe that he came from a monkey. One of the antagonists in the Nova documentary about the Dover trial said basically that it says that we aren't the "Special" creation of god. Evolution doesn't support the idea that we're special, but are just animals. We're an "accident", not a "creation".
They've built their entire world view, self worth and hopes and dreams on this God thing, and Evolution's existence says, "Nope, you, all your beliefs, dreams, hopes and worth are false."
I think it's the main drive behind the mass anti-intellectualism, anti-science dumbing-down of America. They can't deal with Evolution's supporters, so they're trying to weed them out over the generations.From the documentary...
Bill Buckingham - "I find it [evolution] personally offensive because I'm a Christian. I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and that the book of Genesis tells it like it is, as to how we came into being.
God didn't create monkey and then take man from a monkey. He created man."Re: the second caller,
This really reminded me of P.Z. Myers response to Richard Dawkins critics. (i.e. Emperors New Clothes) He was out there trying to show off abstract language, and unnecessarily obfuscatory words without ever giving something concrete to talk about. Not once did he define the concept of god in clear (let alone concise) terms.
I'm sure he left the call thinking he had somehow 'won', and looked really intelligent. Unfortunately, to me he came across as a pseudo-intellectual.
The number 'four' may indeed not be a physical thing. However, this does not mean it can ever be comparable to a deity. For one thing, a number never claims to have existence as anything more than an adjective in reality. God apparently exists as a noun. You can have 'four oranges'. You can't have 'God tambourines'.
Numbers, and mathematical symbols are all part of a human made closed system based upon set axioms. Given the axioms, the rest of mathematics follows. Our axioms are founded from properties we notice of reality. That doesn't mean there exists some kind of detached reality where maths is 'real', it just means that any intelligence that creates a closed system with these same properties as axioms will create the exact same field as us.
Logic is the same; it's one of the many reasons TAG holds little allure to me.
As for the strong v weak atheism thing - the problem here, at least imo, is that god is routinely defined as omnipotent, in which case, by definition, there is no possible way of disproving it. Personally I call myself a weak atheist, but a strong atheist with the proviso that logic always holds true.
(Which I guess is a truism, actually)
Finally, to Ing, as for Godwin's Law, it doesn't actually comment on whether bringing Hitler up helps or hinders a point. It's become a bit of a corollary (a false one in some situations imo) but originally, all Godwin's Law is:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
If you're as sad as me, you can look at the Godwin's Law wiki page! :)
Anyway - I guess I'm just agreeing that Cafeeine Addicted's point was a valid one!I'm with you, though, it seems reasonable. I just can't imagine how unpleasant that must be; constantly hiding from real evidence because of the implications. I've been going to church ever since I was a young child (I still attend with my parents) and I've always found that people who argue against evolution have no idea what they're talking about. I had one lady tell me that evolutionists think that "a horse evolved into a bird" or something to that effect. Perhaps, then, they don't educate themselves because they like what Christianity gives them.. I remember my brother telling me something along those lines.
It's just difficult for me to understand because I'm willing to go wherever the evidence takes me. Maybe I have an idealistic view of most of humanity."Finally, to Ing, as for Godwin's Law, it doesn't actually comment on whether bringing Hitler up helps or hinders a point. It's become a bit of a corollary (a false one in some situations imo) but originally, all Godwin's Law is:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
If you're as sad as me, you can look at the Godwin's Law wiki page! :)
Anyway - I guess I'm just agreeing that Cafeeine Addicted's point was a valid one!"
Oh I know Godwin's law. I also know that people will cite Godwins Corellery (First one to mention Hitler forfeits) constantly. I personally have no problem godwining myself if the situation calls for it. I agree with CA. I might have a link to a video somewhere of a lecture exploring some shared themes between certain religious mindsets and certain fascist mindsets. I am fairly swayed by the argument that there is a shared sado-masacistic root to both. the argument boiled down to both populations having two main desires
a) to have a strong ultra masculine alpha male force dominate and lead them
b) to while subjecting themselves to their father figure, they also want to find easy targets to exert their own power/masculinity over."I'm with you, though, it seems reasonable. I just can't imagine how unpleasant that must be; constantly hiding from real evidence because of the implications. I've been going to church ever since I was a young child (I still attend with my parents) and I've always found that people who argue against evolution have no idea what they're talking about. I had one lady tell me that evolutionists think that "a horse evolved into a bird" or something to that effect. Perhaps, then, they don't educate themselves because they like what Christianity gives them.. I remember my brother telling me something along those lines.
It's just difficult for me to understand because I'm willing to go wherever the evidence takes me. Maybe I have an idealistic view of most of humanity."
Having been a fan of Buddhism and some of the Dali Lama's writings I can imagine wanting to hide from evidence. I remember distinctly a very strong fight/flight reflex activating when Penn and Teller or Skeptoid brought up the issue. My first instinct was to skip those episodes and ignore them. Recognizing this I forced myself to view the counter opinion and have thus had my own views change greatly, I think for the best.
Everyone with deep held beliefs/preferences can fall into hiding from data when it's challenged. It is very important to be vigilant against it and force yourself to learn, even the hard stuff. ESPECIALLY the hard stuff.Guy,
Oh absolutely. Evolution deniers will reach for any rock they can (or think they can) throw against Darwin. There is nothing they will not stoop to.
The funniest part, of course, is that the racial and political views of Darwin are wholly irrelevant unless it can be shown that they caused him to dishonestly present his case.
Put another, more Godwinesque way... did the nature of Wernher von Braun's employer mean his rockets didn't work?
Chuck D was no more racist - indeed, markedly less - than your average man living in the middle 1800s. So what? Evolution is not true because one man says so. It's true because it simply is.
Next time someone brings this up, respond with:
"You know, Isaac Newton was a sincere devotee of Alchemy, so clearly his work on mathematics and physics is unreliable..."Newton was also a major asshole
Edison a plagiarizer
Franklin a lecher
Einstein an adulterer.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And René Descartes was a drunken fart,
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!The real kicker here is that any historically literate Protestant Christian has already wrestled with this... in the person and legacy of Martin Luther himself.
Luther had a number of despicable traits - those who see him as some kind of late medieval CS Lewis are simply delusional - yet that doesn't change the quality or impact of his achievements.
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First a plug for the theHumble ebook Bundle – thirteen books by authors like Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean, John Scalzi, Cory Doctorow, Lauren Beukes, Kelly Link, Randall Munroe and (my favourite) Zach Weiner. Choose your own price and how much goes to the authors and to charity. Only available for two more days. Ad ends.
Second, if you haven't read the comment thread in the Artists in the Mist thread, then you're missing out on a treasure trove of interesting stuff. There are dozens of talented writers, musicians, cat whisperers and artists of all kinds. I particularly liked the beautiful image above by commenter Fuck ALL the chickens! (né Studly Pantload, t.e.u.u.), a delightfully odd poem by Aaron Baker and the lovely ceramics by Peter at Acookblog:
I'm also going to plug this song by Applejinx because he asked so nicely, because he has a sexy voice and because I'm hoping some brony will explain to me what the fuck it is about.


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I don't know if these are real – I haven't had (or, arguably, taken) the time to check them out, but even if they aren't, this is definitely worth a read!
For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued the McDonald's in New Mexico where she purchased the coffee. She took the lid off the coffee and put it between her knees while she was driving. These are awards for the most outlandish lawsuits and verdicts in the U.S.
Here are the Stella's for the past year:
7th Place: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son.
6th Place: Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles, California won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.
5th Place: Terrence Dickson, of Bristol, Pennsylvania , who was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage. Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight, count 'em, EIGHT, days on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the homeowner's insurance company claiming undue mental Anguish.
Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson $500,000 for his anguish. We should all have this kind of anguish.
4th Place: Jerry Williams, of Little Rock , Arkansas , garnered 4th Place in the Stella's when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor's beagle – even though the beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. Williams did not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.
3rd Place: Amber Carson of Lancaster , Pennsylvania because a jury ordered a Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113,500 after she slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.
2nd Place: Kara Walton, of Claymont , Delaware sued the owner of a night club in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge, the jury said the night club had to pay her $12,000….oh, yeah, plus dental expenses.. Go figure.
1st Place: (May I have a fanfare played on 50 kazoos please) This year's runaway First Place Stella Award winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski, of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, from an OU football game, having driven on to the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver's seat to go to the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich.. Not surprisingly, the motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly, Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually leave the driver's seat while the cruise control was set. The Oklahoma jury awarded her, are you sitting down, $1,750,000 PLUS a new motor home. Winnebago actually changed their manuals as a result of this suit, just in case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home..


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The 2024 eclipse in South Branch, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
A rough animation of what the 2024 eclipse will look like from South Branch.
(In this view, the top of the frame is always "up", toward the highest point in the sky.)
What will the 2024 eclipse look like from South Branch?
Map of South Branch and vicinity
Current Weather Forecast for South Branch
Visit our "Weather" links above for other great cloud cover forecast maps!
Xavier Jubier's Interactive Map for South Branch
All eclipse circumstances have been calculated for each city using that city's latitude and longitude as sourced from public records. Eclipse2024.org has taken all reasonable measures to ensure the accuracy of the latitude and longitude shown; however, the user of any eclipse information on the Eclipse2024.org site should verify that these coordinates are correct for the intended viewing location. You can do this using web tools such as Google, latlong.net, lat-long.com or gps-coordinates.net. Please let us know if you believe the coordinates need to be updated for any city in our database.
The eclipse in South Branch will be TOTAL, and we've calculated the local circumstances (using the lat/long noted above and ΔT=69.2s), as follows:
City | Lat | Long | C1 (NDT (GMT-2.5)) | V | C2 (NDT (GMT-2.5)) | Duration | Alt | Az |
South Branch |
16:03:00 |
05:00 |
17:09:48 |
3m 4.4s |
28° |
248° |
View the instructions for the values shown in the table
In this table, we've listed the following information:
Location identifier and latitude/longitude
The times in the table have been calculated based on this exact location. Times can shift by several seconds as you get several miles/km away from the location shown.
Start time of the partial phase ("C1")
All times are given in local time or Universal time [UT] (also known as GMT or Zulu time). You can convert the entire table by clicking on the time zone you want to see it shown in!
Where to look for that first "bite" of partial eclipse ("V")
We've called this value "V", because that's what astronomers call it. If you imagine the Sun's disk as a clock face, this is the hour hand value of where to look on that "clock" to see that very first little bite that the Moon is taking! (Remember, you must use eclipse glasses to look at the Sun at this time!)
Who will be the first to see that bite and shout "First Contact!"?
Start time of totality ("C2")
This is what you came here to see! When does totality start? Again, this time is given in Universal time [UT] and you can convert it if you like.
Remember, due to edge effects unique to your viewing location, this time may be "off" by a few seconds, and different observers will see things differently. Therefore, you have to remember the most important safety rule: Use your eclipse glasses to view the eclipse at all times until the very last bit of the Sun's bright disk has been covered by the Moon! When you can't see anything through the eclipse glasses any longer, then it is safe to look! (But put them back on IMMEDIATELY as soon as totality is over!)
Duration of totality
How long totality will last – given in minutes and seconds, or just seconds if the location is close to the edge of the path. This is an approximate time, again due to localized edge effects. It is correct to within a very few seconds, though!
Altitude and azimuth of the Sun at the time of totality
This will let you know where the Sun will be in the sky during totality, so you can check to make sure that trees, buildings or mountains won't be in your way. (You can also go outside to your planned viewing location on the day before the eclipse at eclipse time and check it out yourself. The Sun's location in the sky at that time won't change enough in one day for you to notice the difference.)
Altitude is given in degrees. The horizon is at 0°, and straight up is 90°. So 45° would be exactly halfway up, 30° would be 1/3 of the way up, and 60° would be 2/3 of the way up. Anything in between is, well, in between!
Azimuth is given as an angle so you can tell exactly where the Sun will be, and here are some references: 90° is due east, 180° is due south, and 270° is due west. So, if you see 200°, that's a bit less than 1/3 of the way from due south to due west. 135° would be straight southeast.
The total eclipse path near New Glasgow
Here are some helpful links to let you research the total eclipse as it will be seen from South Branch:
The South Branch community page
A page of information about the plans that South Branch officials are putting in place for eclipse day!
Also includes links to weather and an Interactive Google Map.
What will the 2024 eclipse look like from South Branch?
Opens the amazing, full-featured eclipse2024.org eclipse simulator, to show you exactly what the eclipse will look like!
(If this is your first visit, you'll want to open the Eclipse2024.org Eclipse Simulator Instruction page first!)
See all the great FREE resources we've put together for educators, media, and community leaders in South Branch
Detailed 2024 eclipse viewing information for regions that include South Branch
We've written some very detailed information about viewing the 2024 eclipse from the area surrounding South Branch.
You'll be able to find out when and where the eclipse will happen, and see animated maps of the eclipse throughout the region!


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Thursday, June 12, 2008
It's Rude to Stare
Thursday, June 12, 2008
I have a confession to make: I really don't like attending baby showers. There's all the frippy little decorations, lots of cooing "mom" types, and those obligatory shower games which were undoubtably invented by a woman on the verge of a murder/suicide. However, I think this cake would liven up your average baby shower. I mean, just watching a room full of women in flamingo capris and sun dresses trying to compliment, much less cut, this cake would be bona fide entertainment. "Why, Doris" (looking mom-to-be up and down) "it looks just like you! Er, would you like a slice of boobie?"
Thanks to Kate E. for the photo!
46 comments | Post a Comment
Wow the mom to be sure had some crazy cravings.
- June 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM
A friend e-mailed my your blog address, and I have to say I had the best laugh!!
What a great site you have!! - June 13, 2008 at 12:24 AM
I just found your blog and this is hysterical! We are showing some of the pics here in the office and people are amazed.
Keep it up. I will check back and send you something if I find a "Cake Wreck:. Well done. - June 13, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I want to know two things. First, how one goes about carving up such a cake. I mean, I guess the kind of person who thought this was a good idea is unlikely to have much in the way of sensitivity, but sheesh. There simply is no good place to start.
Or finish, for that matter.
The second thing is this: What kind of baking pan is needed for such a creation? I mean, do professionals go through their collections of pans, setting aside the "fitness model", "slender", "anemic", "overweight", "morbidly obese" and "quintuplets" molds to get the perfect one, labeled "plumply pregnant mother-of-one-to-be"? It's impressive and daunting, to say the least. - July 5, 2008 at 11:27 PM
LOL! This is one of my cakes. Yes, I found the requested design to be a little creepy. I understand that there were a few c-section comments made. Ewwww. However, there was a lot of laughter over it.
In response to anonymous's question about cake pans, this cake had a sheet cake on the bottom, and the Wilton ball pan for the wachungas. The belly was baked in a pyrex bowl. I covered everything in buttercream and then fondant. - July 7, 2008 at 11:10 PM
BTW, I'm not a professional, and the cake wasn't paid for. Not sure if that means that I'm ousted or not. The design is a copy of one from Freed's Bakery in Las Vegas.
- July 7, 2008 at 11:46 PM
- Jen said...
Kate - Wow, our first baker claims a creation! Welcome, and thanks for taking the comments in the spirit they were made: all in good fun.
Oh, and "wachungas"? That's going in my slang book for boobies, right next to "golden bozos". - July 7, 2008 at 11:56 PM
Hi Jen! I just about died when I read "Er, would you like a slice of boobie?" I've emailed my friend (for whom the cake was made) about this, and she's gonna love it!
Great blog subject! LOL! - July 8, 2008 at 12:01 AM
"Wachungas" is a great word. :)
- July 8, 2008 at 12:02 AM
- kylakae said...
Heh. I have to admit that I once made a cake very like this one. It was for a baby shower for the Father-to-be who was feeling a bit left out. They held it at a strip club.
Apparently the strippers thought it was the coolest cake ever. - July 22, 2008 at 8:03 PM
HA! I have a good buddy who had a child back in April '07, and the baby shower cake was exactly the same but in pink. He thought it was hilarious. His wife was mixed.
- July 23, 2008 at 2:55 AM
- Bunche (pop culture ronin) said...
While this may be a conceptual horror, you've got to admit that the craftsmanship is excellent. But, yeah, the edible C-section aspect is just plain nausea-inducing.
Excellent site, by the way! I was just alerted to it and now you have a new regular reader. - July 23, 2008 at 8:54 AM
- Jamie said...
Is it wearing lingerie?
- July 23, 2008 at 10:44 PM
I made a cake like this for the shower they did for my husband when we had our second child. Only thing is mine wasn't wearing clothes....and during transport one of the breasts fell off. :)
- July 24, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Uh oh...I think it's adorable and really well done. I would happily giggle with the girls over a slice of boobie. :P Do I get beheaded now? I know...I'll stay anonymous to avoid the onslaught, lol.
- July 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM
- badfae said...
It's a little odd, but incredibly well-made. I'm amazed to see Kate saying she isn't a professional.
- July 25, 2008 at 1:51 PM
@bunche- I have to admit that I was proud of the result- craftsmanship-wise. It's pretty gross to think about cutting it, though.
@jamie- I think it's supposed to be a blouse, but, again, it's a copy of a Freed's Bakery design, so I'm not sure.
@carad- I'm glad that I wasn't asked for nudity!!! (I'd have had to say no!) :)
@anonymous- I'm glad that you like it. It made for a lot of laughter!
@badfae- Thanks! (I agree that it's odd, but I'm O.K. with that.) :) - July 25, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Yay, someone who agrees with me about baby showers! I'd rather have a root canal, thanks.
I'm a cake decorator and have actually had to make a few preggo-belly and boob cakes, and I always have to wonder what's going through the 'friend's' mind when they order this to serve up at the party-crazy. - July 27, 2008 at 2:51 PM
- Valraven said...
"the wachungas"
Best euphemism I've ever heard! - July 27, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Trust me, when you have a kid, you'll see the point of baby showers. You sound a wee bit defensive about your childlessness, I have to say. It coms out when you write about showers.
- July 27, 2008 at 11:22 PM
- Kristin said...
"Okay, now who wants a piece of the womb?"
"No takers?" - July 28, 2008 at 3:54 PM
- Jenna Z said...
Here, here! I concur, baby showers are ANNOYING and terribly painful to sit through. I dread being invited to them. And to anonymous, I know *I'm* a bit defensive about my childless status because every other person tries to push their child-ful agenda on me. "children are the future, you won't understand until you're a mommy, it's the greatest job in the world, aren't you trying to get pregnant?, and on and on!" Gag!
- July 28, 2008 at 3:58 PM
- Momof4 said...
Hmmm, I dunno, I kinda like this cake. I mean, it's quite a compliment to the mom. In a weird way.
- July 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM
It kind of reminds me of those plaster-of-paris casts that pregnant women sometimes do of their pregnant bellies, only with clothes.
The workmanship on the cake is really great though, just the "theme" is a little odd. - July 31, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Fun, fun, FUN BLOG! And the cake certainly looks professional for an amateur, friendly baker!
@anonymous re: childless people & baby showers? I have given birth to and raised to adulthood two children. The point of baby showers is to give the expectant mother the items she needs for the coming child. The inane and revolting games have nothing to do with the gathering of friends who want to support her.
Having or not having had children does not diminish one's capacity for recognizing nonsense. - August 3, 2008 at 3:29 PM
A "conceptual" horror??
What a terrible, wonderful pun. - August 5, 2008 at 12:05 PM
- Jammer said...
Yum! The placenta is my favorite part!
Someone should make a Mardi Gras cake like this. But instead of putting in the little plastic baby, they can put in a balled-up Cabbage Patch Kid.
Great site, by the way. :) Thanks! - August 7, 2008 at 5:21 PM
While the cake idea is a little odd, it really is a well made cake.
With that said, what kind of cake was it? Red velvet would be funny. - August 12, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Um, yeah, it WAS actually red velvet cake. Hey, I just bake what I'm told to bake! LOL!!! (But, ewwwwww!!!!)
- August 13, 2008 at 11:46 AM
I will be spending much time browsing your wonderful site.......not many things make me smile at 7 a.m. in the morning, but seems I have found a site that does...thank you so much.....
- August 20, 2008 at 11:59 AM
i think the cake is beautiful, and very well done...i mean, it's a cake, not a real belly! if you did made a cake the shape of a fish or something you wouldn't be all grossed out by eating it's tail...anyway, love the site!
- August 28, 2008 at 1:09 AM
Don't know if you've ever been pregnant, but that "gynormous rack" is pretty standard fare for a pregnant body. In fact, when I announced my third pregnancy, my husband's hands shot up as if he were making a field goal and he yelled, "Yah!! Poor Star Boobs!!" ;)
But that cake...just disturbing. There are plenty of things that happen to a body during pregnancy I wouldn't want to stare at in mixed company! - September 8, 2008 at 8:06 AM
I think that this cake is bloody BRILLIANT.
I think, if/when I ever get pregnant, I'll want a cake like this. But naked, so you can see the stretch-marks. And with all the internal organs. And a plastic baby doll. We could play, "Find the Uterus"! And you can choose whether you want a liver, a kidney, or some intestine as your piece of cake. Or, of course, one of the boobs. Or a bellybutton!
...I need to lay off the sugar. - September 9, 2008 at 10:52 PM
My six year old daughter just glanced over my shoulder, saw this cake, and said, "Is that supposed to be a butterfly?"
I responded, "If only it was..."
I love your blog. - September 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM
- threenorns said...
to the person who said you have to have a child to appreciate baby showers: bollocks!
i have three kids (22yrs, 19yrs, and 21 months old) and i HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE baby showers. even worse is when i'm dragged to baby showers of ppl i don't even know just to make up the numbers. the games are lame, inane, and just plain stupid (the clothespin grab, that stupid paper plate hate with all the ribbons, talk about a giant leap back for womankind!). - December 24, 2008 at 1:24 AM
Please, please, please, tell me that there was so "surprise" inside the cake... I would check the rest of the comments if only I could see through the tears, or stop laughing.
Carmen. - March 6, 2009 at 7:19 PM
- Kate said...
Ha!!!! No, Carmen. No "surprises" in this cake, fortunately! Just the red velvet cake was bad enough!
- May 11, 2009 at 12:31 AM
Oh, lay off her! Aren't you allowed to not have kids and not like baby showers without being 'defensive'? Some people...
I ate her placenta with some fava beans and a nice chianti... I just watched 'Silence of the Lambs' and I'm sorry but this cake reminds me of Hannibal Lecter... AHHHH!! - May 18, 2009 at 12:18 AM
I think it was really well done. I've done a few of these cakes for people and they thought they were just the cutest cakes! I can't say I agree or disagree. I'm cool with either. Even the naked one I would do if they asked (I can't say that one appeals to me now....but hey - what people like is what they like) That being said, that frigging cake that says "push olivia push!" on google images, much like the one you have above, is just gross. I mean, I make penis cakes, 'boob' cakes, etc... but that one is just a special kind of gross to me. Exhibiting body parts is one thing in the name of fun and levity, but showing a delivery that's edible (although the craftmanship is cool) is just a bit icky to me. I'd probably still make it if someone wanted it though...
Overall though, I love this site. My sister introduced me to it and I've just about peed everytime reading it! I actually laughed so hard I got patiki eye out of it!!! Great job Jen and keep it up! - August 8, 2009 at 2:13 AM
I think it is a well made cake, so it isn't the baker's fault, the swirls and all are kind of nice. It is the basic principle of a torso cake which I cannot understand- especially a pregnant one. Still, not as bad as- I think it was the Holland Belly Cake?
- August 21, 2009 at 1:13 PM
- The Whiz Kid Forte said...
Debbie Brown of the cake decorating book Naughty Cakes would love this project! It's so saucy, yet wrong!
- November 3, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Wow, I bet every other mom to be is hoping to have boobies twice the size of the baby they'll be having, too! Holy geeze, who would ever order that? Some cake artists have entirely too much fun.
--Catens - November 11, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Ok, I admit it, I love baby showers. And bridal showers. (any shower really--April, meteor, daily...) Love the whole thing. Love the pink carbonated punch, the games (I am VERY competitive and love winning prizes lol). Love the glowing, overstuffed mom to be (or the bride to be). Love the decorations, love it all.
WV demogo "You can leave de gate open for da horses, demogo right to the feed" - September 21, 2010 at 12:23 PM
- Cupcakes Lady said...
lol "Wachungas" great stuff! lol x
- October 7, 2010 at 1:42 PM
- Pregnancy Symptoms said...
"Wachungas" ? Did you just discover it? lol Great blog you have here. I am subscribing. take care
- December 23, 2010 at 10:52 PM
I'm posting late. I also don't care.
I had to tell you that I went to a bridal shower for my cousin that had a similar cake to this - it was a lingerie shower, and the cake was a torso wearing matching bra and panties (brown with blue polka dots). Anyway, it was hideous - even more so once it had been hacked to pieces - and the funniest part of the evening was when the entire right cup was hacked of, put on a plate, and given to my cousin, who promptly said, "I can't eat a whole boob!"
I'm not commenting on most of these posts, because I'm reading through the old stuff since I just now discovered the hilarity that is your blog. However, I couldn't keep that to myself. - July 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM
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Damaged Items
If your order arrives at your door damaged, broken, or defective, we will either replace the broken parts if possible or ship out a new one at our discretion and at our expense. Please be sure to inspect your item(s) carefully for any concealed damage.
Contact Baby Biz within 7 business days of the delivery date to report the damage. Please be sure to have information such as model number, serial number, date of manufacture and any part numbers available. We will not be able to replace damaged merchandise if we are not notified within 7 business days of the delivery date. This applies to canceling and returning a damaged item as well.
Requests for replacement parts will be processed as quickly as possible. Please note that we are not able to express ship replacement pieces.
Canceling An Order
If you have placed an order and would like to cancel it, please contact us by either calling 432-520-5405 or email us email@example.com within four hours of placing your order to cancel it free of any charges. If you have placed the order before or after business hours, please leave a message to ensure no penalties occur.


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Home Improvement
Leverage the equity you've built in your home to upgrade it.
Whether you're looking to increase your living space, make much needed repairs, or invest in energy efficient upgrades, home renovations can help improve your quality of life, all without moving.
Whatever the scope of your project, your Mortgage Centre specialist will work with you to help you find cost effective financing options to help you achieve your renovation goals.
Lifestyle Renovations
Additions and remodels are a great way to incorporate new life and style to any home. And renovating may be a more practical and cost-efficient solution than moving, especially if you like where you live. From additions to increase kitchen, bedroom, or family room space to finishing the basement, or creating an outdoor living room, your Mortgage Centre specialist can help.
Retrofit Projects
You can significantly reduce your energy consumption by retrofitting your existing home with high-tech insulating materials and heating equipment to make your home more comfortable and reduce your operating costs for years to come. Enjoy the benefits of your energy efficient home:
- Increased comfort level
- Lower operating costs
- Increased equity/re-sale value
- Reduced carbon footprint
- Maintenance and Repair Renovations
While maintenance and repair renovations aren't really a choice - they are part of owning a home and protecting your investment. The renovations may also increase your equity and/or re-sale value.
Regardless of your reason, we're here to help you find the financing you need. Contact your local Mortgage Centre specialist to learn more about your options.
Careful planning lets you get the most from your home renovation dollars:
- 1. Set renovation goals that reflect your lifestyle and priorities. By defining your end goal, the contractors and tradespeople you hire will be able to deliver better results.
- 2. Think about your current and future needs so the renovation choices you make today will accommodate your future lifestyle changes.
- 3. Create a wish list which includes things that must be included in the project as well as other items you would like to include, if your budget allows.
- 4. When you renovate your home, you should have your planning decisions made before the work begins. Whether you're renovating to improve your living space, or making necessary repairs to your home, careful planning will help you get the most out of your home renovation dollars.


text: While working with Sarah, you will also need access to the Parent Portal online that contains videos, reading assignments, handouts and report forms. Once you join, you will have ongoing access to the resources to continue your parent development. When working with a coach, you receive a special discount to gain access to the online parent portal for only $50 (regular cost is $199).


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Vivienne Westwood was like a Maurice Sendak character that runs away to start her own kingdom, AKA, what I would like to do, all the time, a lot. Paper crowns, crayon scribbles (some of which read "Prince Charming") and drapy dresses that could've come out of an older sister's dress-up box..plus, only Vivs could put her models in marker moustaches (time for me to revisit TOMAS, perhaps?) and it still make sense.
And, going back to the Maurice Sendak thing: Wild Rumpus crowns, anyone? That star on that grey sweatshirt is TOTALLY Really Rosie? LIFE COMPLETE.


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Shipping & Returns
Ordering Process
Production: The Life Cycle of Your Order
- Day 1: Your order is received, processed and sent to production.
- Day 2: Depending on your items, size and quantity, production time may vary. All items are MADE TO ORDER and requires approximately 3-7 business days for production (print, cut, sew)
- Day 3 Quality Control verifies your order is perfect and packages it for delivery.
- Day 4: Your order will depart our Beijing, China facility or our Jacksonville, FL location.
All items are made to order. No cancellations accepted after 24hours. Production takes anywhere from 3-5 days and free shipping is 15-30 days after production by USPS. Upgraded shipping is always available and takes 3-5 days for delivery after production by DHL Express.
FREE Shipping Option: Receive our order in approximately 15-30 days. Delivery dates are not guaranteed and you will receive tracking. Please track your order at www.usps.com with the tracking number given. Initially it may take 5-10 days for the United States Postal Service to update their tracking details. Please check the www.usps.com website daily for updates.
DHL Faster Shipping: Choose to this option and you will receive your order in 7-15 days.
If you require your item by a specific date please keep the above timeline in consideration and email us at firstname.lastname@example.com to inform us of the due date. Please keep in mind that we cannot guarantee all deadlines but we will try our best to meet them.
We also suggest that you upgrade to our DHL Express delivery method to receive your item in 7-15 days after the life cycle production process.
Applying Discount Code
If you have a discount code or gift card you can enter this on the final checkout page. We cannot apply the discount code or gift card for you after you have placed your order, so please make sure that the discount has been applied before your complete your purchase.
Order Cancellation
Please email/call/text us immediately: (904) 990-7496, firstname.lastname@example.com. Orders are automatically sent to production every day at midnight, 12pm EST, including weekends and holidays. If you need to cancel your order please call us immediately. Once in production, we cannot cancel, refund or exchange any order for any reason. This is a strict policy.
Sizing Guide
Please refer to our sizing guides on their respective product page links. For any additional sizing questions, please contact us by E-mail / firstname.lastname@example.com.
Holiday Season
If you are ordering any of our items as gifts please order early (no later than November 20th in most instances with FREE Shipping and by December 8th with DHL Fast Shipping) to have in time.
Update: We are currently on a 7 day delay due to heavy order volumes.
DoYou247™ guarantees all orders to be delivered within the estimated arrival time. If your order has not arrived within time, you may be entitled to free shipping on your next order. This guarantee may have restrictions and is outlined below.*
Tracking information will be available and emailed once your order departs our facilities. Please allow 12-16 days to receive your tracking number, we cannot provide one until your order is completed and shipped.
Regular Delivery: 15-25 business days transit via USPS
International Delivery: Based on your country, delivery can take up to 90 days through your local postal service.
DHL Express Delivery: 7-15 business days transit via DHL based on your location.
DoYou247™ will do everything in its power to ensure fastest delivery for all customers and locations. However, in rare circumstances, some countries may hold packages for any number of reasons. This is out of our control and for that reason we do not honor our guaranteed delivery times for orders held in customs. Additionally, we do not guarantee estimated arrival times inclusive of any major holidays or weekends. DoYou247™ further reserves the right to amend this guarantee at any time and without warning or notification. We will do everything we can to ensure delivery, including re-shipping your order free of charge when necessary and solely at the discretion of DoYou247™.
Because we deal with many different manufacturers ordering more than 1 item will result in receiving your order in multiple packages. By ordering from us you are acknowledging that you are aware of this and approving the receipt of several different packages at different times.
PO Box Delivers
DoYou247™ cannot deliver Express DHL to PO Boxes of any kind. You must provide a mailing address for all DHL Express deliveries.
Address Changes
We cannot accept an address change once an order has been shipped.
International Shipping
Some online orders are shipped worldwide via DHL or Epacket then final delivery by your countries preferred shipping carrier. This can sometime take longer than expected based on your country. Unfortunately, this is out of control and delivery times cannot be guaranteed. You acknowledge this when you purchase from our website.
Some countries require very specific importing instructions that need to be supplied by the receiver. DoYou247™ cannot provide these documents on behalf of the receiver, so please be sure to provide such documents if your country has strict importing regulations.
We are not responsible nor honor our shipping guarantee for delayed delivery due to customs and regulations.
Select countries have been removed from available shipping locations due to high levels of fraudulent activity. We apologize for the inconvenience, but we cannot make any acceptations to this policy.
Most of our items such as tracksuits and baseball jerseys are custom made to order and not returnable so you must make sure to view our size chart.
The image appearing of our Tracksuits and Baseball Jerseys may be a digital version of the item so there will be 1-2 variations in color and artwork.
If you are approved to return any products the items must be sent back in the condition you received it, unworn, unsoiled, unwashed or undamaged and with tags attached (if applicable), within 6 days of your purchase.
Please note: If we find that after receiving the item that it has been worn, soiled, or damaged we will NOT issue a refund.
We issue refunds on the original payment method excluding all taxes and shipping costs. A restocking fee of 30% will be charged unless returned due to our error or our damage.
Returns Address:
Attn: J. Williamson
7823 Fawn Brook Circle E
Jacksonville, FL 32256
Include Name, Order Number and Reason for Return
Please contact us before shipping your return: email@example.com.
We cannot issue a refund or exchange until we have received the returned items.
Processing your return will take 10-14 days. After we have processed your return, we will contact you with further information. Please check your spam box periodically.
Please allow up to 30 days for your bank information to reflect your refund.
Customers are responsible for all return shipping expenses. Returns will be processed in 10-14 days upon receipt. Refunds or exchanges will not be given until we have received and processed your order. Returned orders which are not in original condition will not be accepted and are subject to a 15% processing fee and all return shipping costs.
Exchange Policy
We offer a satisfaction guarantee on all purchases. Your exchange item must be sent back in the condition you received it, unworn, washed or damaged and with tags attached, within 7 days of your purchase. We issue store credit for all exchanges on items excluding taxes and shipping costs. A restocking fee of 30% will be charged unless exchanged due to our error or damage.
Custom made and personalized items cannot be returned.
Exchange Address
Attn: J. Williamson
7823 Fawn Brook Circle E
Jacksonville, FL 32256
Include Name, Order Number and Reason for Return
Please contact us before shipping your exchange: email@example.com
Customers are responsible for all shipping expenses. Exchanges will be processed in 10-14 days upon receipt. Exchanges will not be given until we have received and processed your order. Exchanged orders which are not in original condition will not be accepted and are subject to a 15% processing fee and all return shipping costs.
Received Faulty Item
Please contact our customer service team at firstname.lastname@example.com and include the following information:
--Clear photos of the damaged product
--Full name and order number
After you have submitted all relevant information about your faulty item our customer service team will review your request and contact you as soon as possible.
Payment Options:
We accept all major credit cards and PayPal. We do not accept checks, moneygram, western union, bitcoin or cash on delivery.
Payment Declined
If your credit card is being declined please check that the credit card or PayPal information you entered is correct.
Occasionally a credit card will fail to make a payment if there are insufficient funds, if this is the case, try another card. If you are an international customer, please make sure your bank will allow you to make an international transaction.
International Trans Fee
International orders may be charged a small fee by either your bank or PayPal during purchase. Please note this is not a charge from DoYou247™ and we are unable to amend this charge.
All transactions are made in USD. We offer the ability to change the display currency in our online store for your conversion rate convenience only. The final amount in USD will be displayed on our secure checkout page before completing your purchase.


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Authenticity is the foundation of our business, and every item we sell is inspected by our expert team. Our authenticators are the most experienced and highly trained in the business.
Sale Adidas Nemeziz 19+ FG Black Orange Green 39-45
- Stock: In Stock
- Model: Adidas Nemeziz 19+ FG_21010703
- Weight: 1.00kg
Ex Tax: $108.40


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Judy Blue High Waist Destroyed Back Shorts
- Regular
- $54.99
- Sale
- $54.99
- Regular
- Unit Price
- per
How is the fit?
Turn heads in these Judy Blue High Waist Destroyed Back Shorts! Made with comfort in mind, these shorts are the perfect length - not too short and not too long. Don't sacrifice style for comfort. Get the best of both worlds with these quirky, fun, and playful shorts.
Rise: 12.5" (High-Rise)Inseam: 28" Cuffed / 31" Uncuffed
- Shipping is Calculated by weight.
- Orders are processed and shipped out within 1-3 business days.
- We also offer pickup (just choose this option at checkout) at our storefront in Weirton, WV during business hours! Just place your order and when it's ready for pickup (within 2 business days), you'll get an email letting you know!
- We have a 7/30-day return policy, which means you have 7 days after you receive your item to notify us and request a return and we must receive the item within 14 days after you receive your item. Exceptions will be made on a case by case basis if your purchase was a gift or if your item was a gift and received or given after 7 days. The 14 days will still apply to all returns. No exceptions. No returns on Clearance items. Clearance items will end in .00. No exceptions.
- To be eligible for a return, your item must be in the same condition that you received it, unworn or unused, with tags, and in its original packaging. You'll also need the receipt or proof of purchase.
- To start a return, you can contact us at firstname.lastname@example.com. If your return is accepted you will receive instructions on how and where to send your package. If your item is damaged or needs returned due to a mistake on our end, we will provide a paid shipping label. Items sent back to us without first requesting a return will not be accepted.
- You can always contact us for any return question at firstname.lastname@example.com.
Damages and issues
- Please inspect your order once received and contact us immediately if the item is defective, damaged or if you receive the wrong item, so that we can evaluate the issue and make it right.
Exceptions / non-returnable items
- Certain types of items cannot be returned, like perishable goods (such as food, flowers, or plants), custom products (such as special orders or personalized items), and personal care goods (such as beauty products). We also do not accept returns for hazardous materials, flammable liquids, or gases. Please get in touch if you have questions or concerns about your specific item.
- Unfortunately, we cannot accept returns on sale/clearance items (items ending in .00) or gift cards. We will also not accept items that appear worn, washed, have pet hair on them, have make up stains on them, or smell like cigarette smoke. No exceptions.
- The fastest way to ensure you get what you want is to return the item you have, and once the return is accepted, we will send out your replacement item. The customer is responsible for return shipping charges unless there was a mistake on our part or a manufacturer defect is the reason for exchange.
Store Credit
- We will notify you once we've received and inspected your return, and let you know if the return was approved or not. If approved, you will be issued store credit equal to the amount of your purchase.
Buy now, pay later.
Split your entire online purchase into 4 interest-free payments, over 6 weeks with no impact to your credit.
2 weeks
4 weeks
6 weeks
Here's how to Sezzle
Shop and add items to your cart as normal!
Choose Sezzle at Checkout! You'll be redirected to Sezzle to Sign Up or Log In to complete your order.
Sezzle it
Your order will be shipped out right away* and your payments will be split up over 6 weeks.
*shipping times subject to merchant shipping policy
Download the App
Shop directory. Reschedule payments. Plus more!


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Barbour Elisha T-Shirt - White
Experience comfort and style with the Barbour Elisha T-Shirt. This casual shirt features an oversized fit, perfect for a relaxed look. The Barbour graphic on the chest adds a touch of sophistication and showcases your love for the brand.
100% Cotton
Barbour mineral ink graphic to chest and Barbour branded block back neck tape
Back length: 66cm
Machine wash 30°C - very mild process
Standard delivery is delivered within 3-5 days (Monday - Saturday).
Security checks and cut off time
Orders placed after 12pm on Friday or on public holidays will be not be despatched until the next working day, subject to product availability.
Orders are despatched as soon as possible. We have a 12pm cut off time; orders which pass payment verification after this time are treated as having been received on the next working week day. Payment verification generally takes 1-2 hours from when an order is placed, but occasionally can take longer. We recommend you place your order as early as possible to avoid disappointment.
Returns address:
Returns department
Armstrong Country Store
304 Clabby Road
We hope you are delighted with your order. However, if it is not up to scratch, don't worry, just send it back to us within 28 days and providing it is in its original condition with tags attached, we'll gladly refund or exchange it for you.*
- Just email us at firstname.lastname@example.com to notify and we will provide you with the returns information. We recommend you obtain proof of postage.
- Once we have received your returned item(s), we will process it as quickly as possible. However, if we're really busy, it can take up to 7 days from the date of receipt. Should you have any queries about the status of your return, please email us.
- We hope that your order arrives in one piece, but in the event of any items being faulty; we will either refund or exchange the items for you. If you receive any broken crockery, don't worry about returning it to us, just send us a photo to (email address) and we'll either exchange or replace the item(s) for you.
- If you are returning items that are not faulty, then the cost of returning the product to us is your responsibility.
- Before returning any undamaged or non-faulty items to us, we do ask that it is in the same condition as when you first bought it, ensuring the tags are still attached.
Please ensure you have taken reasonable care to make certain that it is returned safely and not damaged in transit. Please include original packaging where possible.
*this excluded firewood deliveries. Please see below for more details.
Firewood Information:
When you are in receipt of your order, it is important to check the packaging for any visual damage to the goods and then sign for its safe arrival. If you are unfortunate enough to receive damaged goods or there are missing items, please make sure it is noted on the courier's paperwork. We also strongly suggest that you contact us directly as soon as possible to make sure we are aware of the problem.
If your order arrives as arranged but we are unable to deliver because you are not home (and have not agreed in advance to unattended delivery at your own risk being made), or there is insufficient space available for the vehicle to safely manoeuvre on the road AND operate a tail lift with goods weighing up to 1000KG, you will be liable for any additional costs incurred for the failed delivery and the goods either being returned or redelivery having to be arranged. The return delivery charge for failed deliveries incurs a £35.00 minimum charge.
Where goods are refused on delivery that are found to be undamaged on return, we reserve the right to pass on FULL carriage charges that we incur in returning the goods to us.


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If you have valuables or irreplaceable items you need to keep safe and secure, what is the best option for you? Whether it's cash, jewellery, gold bullion or just important paperwork you need to keep safe, there are a number of things you should consider when deciding between a home safe or a safety deposit box.
1. A safety deposit box is better value. A small, mid-range home safe will cost approx. £1,000-£1,500 (before fitting costs) – whereas a safety deposit box starts at only £150 per year – giving you over 5 years total safety and security, with 7 day access for less than the cost of the home safe.
2. A safety deposit box will offer better protection from fire. The aforementioned home safe would have a fire rating of Grade 1, this will only offer protection from fire for 30 minutes whereas the safety deposit box in this instance is in a Grade 8 vault, offering a hugely increased fire and security rating.
3. A safety deposit box offers much more protection from thieves. People believe they can 'hide' their home safe from thieves and burglars. The latest research and expertise from the police proves this is rarely the case. Burglars are now breaking into homes complete with handheld metal detectors (easily available to buy online) – they can then 'sweep' the entire property in 5-10mins and will almost always find the 'hidden' safe. Thieves will then cause major destruction to property in removing these home safes. It is also worth bearing in mind that if they cannot remove the safe, they may then wait until such time as the homeowner or family is actually in the home, to return and under use or threat of violence make the homeowner comply with their demands to open the safe.
4. Home Safes are notoriously easy to 'crack' open. All one has to do is watch an episode of 'Storage Wars' on TV, or many other similar TV shows, to see just how easy it is to open a home safe. Alternatively, a quick google search of 'how to crack a home safe' returns findings of over 7 million results! (a lot with videos). safety deposit boxes however, are housed within a secure vault, which is practically impossible to open.
5. You can save money on home insurance with the use of a safety deposit box. If you have a home safe, your valuables will still be included in your home insurance – which means you will still be paying for their cover – especially if they are 'specified items'. When you rent a safety deposit box you can remove these 'specified items' from your home insurance policy therefore lowering your premium.
While there are many more advantages to having a safety deposit box over a home safe, it is worth pointing out that any additional security measures you take with your valuables at home will normally be justified. For more information on renting your own private safety deposit box contact: www.columbusvaults.com or call: Call: 0115 857 2640.


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Purple Tutu Baby Girl Gift Box
Ships within 24 hrs | Delivery Info
Ships within 24 hrs | Delivery Info
Click & Collect Available. Pick up from Cromer, NSW 2099
Your order will be dispatched within 24 hours or NEXT BUSINESS DAY (excluding personalised items) delivery information page
All orders are shipped from our SYDNEY warehouse.
Standard Post = from $8.90 / 2-8 Business Days
Express Post = from $12.90 / 1-3 Business Days
Returns Policy
Returns Policy
Here at Bespoke Baby, we want all our customers to love their purchases and be 100% satisfied.
Bespoke Baby has a strict 14 day returns policy, from the date your parcel was received.
All SALE / CLEARANCE ITEMS are final sales. Please choose carefully as there are no refunds, or exchanges for items purchased from our SALE / CLEARANCE section.
Returns, Exchanges & Change of Mind
If you would like to exchange your product that is purchased outside a sale event, you will need to return the unwanted item, in new condition, unwashed, unused, tags still on. Upon receipt of the unwanted item, we will provide you with a credit note & discounted shipping of $5.
If you would like to return a Bespoke Baby product because you have changed your mind, we will happily assist with providing a store credit for the cost of the items (excl. shipping costs).
Unfortunately CUSTOMISED items or MADE TO ORDER items can not be returned or exchanged due to change of mind or wrong size ordered.
This includes all nursery prints and baby gift boxes, hampers and nappy cakes.
Faulty / Damaged Items
If any of our products are faulty or damaged, we will happily replace them or offer a refund. You must notify us by emailing email@example.com advising us of the issue within 14 days of receiving the item.
We will provide you instructions on how to return the item to us. We may request images of the faulty or damaged item be sent prior to issuing replied paid details.
Bespoke Baby must receive the faulty or damaged product before we apply a refund, credit or exchange.
Please note, your returned item must meet the following conditions:
- Goods must be in their original condition – unused, unwashed and with all tags attached.
- You must notify us by email firstname.lastname@example.com advising reason for return and if you're seeking a credit note or exchange. If requesting an exchange, please specify which product/s you would like as a replacement in your email. You will be provided a return postal address.
- We encourage you to look at the size charts available. The customer will need to post the items for exchange to us and we will send the replacement item back to you once original item has been checked.
We take care in packaging up our gifts to ensure the items inside the box are not damaged during the courier and Australia Post handling. Unfortunately sometimes the outer box can appear damaged however our careful packaging means it is unlikely the inside items are damaged. If your return is about the outer packaging being damaged, please contact us or send photos of the outer box to email@example.com
* In order to receive a credit note you will be required to register as a returning customer. The credit note will be applied to your login for use within 24 months from the issue date.
Got a question?
Got a question?
We are here to help. Talk to a real person or email us
give them a call on 1300 33 BABY (1300 332 229)
Warehouse Open Hours
Our Purple Tutu Baby Girl Gift Box is a fun gift idea for a baby shower or newborn present. A complete outfit featuring our cute soft tulle tutu bloomers with matching soft soled shoes and adding a pop of difference with our zebra bodysuit! Bubs will look like a total rockstar!
What's included:
- Lavender Baby girl bloomers
- Purple soft soled baby shoes
- Zebra short sleeve bodysuit made from 100% cotton
- Gift box finished with a beautiful satin bow
Excellent quality and value for money, this adorable baby girl gift is guaranteed to stand out from the crowd of baby gifts and leave a last impression.
Shop safely & securely online


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This item (P15329) is not currently available for purchase.
Wintergreen Lighting's line of FlexFilament patio string light sets offer the look of vintage incandescent visible-filament lights in tough, energy-efficient LED. The curved filaments are lined with LED diodes that produce a beautiful light. Yet their operating costs are a fraction of incandescent, and of course they always remain cool to the touch, making them ideal for any application.
Bulbs and tubes are guaranteed to light for one year of seasonal usage from the date of purchase. This warranty is void if light set is damaged by abuse, misuse, neglect, improper handling or storage, or if any of the identifying labels are removed. In no event shall the seller or manufacturer be liable for incidental, consequential, direct or indirect damages, including, without limitations, property damage, personal injury or lost business profits resulting from any defects. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. All returns should be initiated with the authorized re-seller and must include the original receipt of purchase. The defective product will be repaired or exchanged for a new product or a refund will be issued as determined by Wintergreen Lighting or the authorized sales provider.
Item Number | Key Features |


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Here is a list of veterinary practices in your area. Those with a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum icon alongside the practice name are Compassion Understood accredited practices which have undergone special training in end-of-life care for pets and their owners.
Those with "registered only" alongside their name have shown an interest in compassionate care and requested access to our veterinary professional site.
For more information, please contact the veterinary practice or contact us https://www.compassionunderstood.com/contact
We try to use the most up-to-date database of veterinary practices in the UK, however, if you notice a mistake with the details that we hold or you prefer your veterinary branch not to be listed, please contact us letting us know your branch name and updates required or request to remove from the system. You can use our online enquiry form, email firstname.lastname@example.com or call 01788 228811 during office hours.


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Table for blood pressure values of 174 over 88 mmHg
Blood pressure numbers are generally divided into categories according to the following table.
The given numbers of 174 over 88 mmHg are highlighted in color and result in Medium Hypertension (Stage 2).
Category | systolic (mmHg) | diastolic (mmHg) |
Low Blood Pressure (Hypotension) | < 99 | < 59 |
Optimal Blood Pressure | 100 - 119 | 60 - 79 |
Normal Blood Pressure | 120 - 129 | 80 - 84 |
High-Normal Blood Pressure | 130 - 139 | 85 - 89 |
Mild Hypertension (Stage 1) | 140 - 159 | 90 - 99 |
Medium Hypertension (Stage 2) | 160 - 179 | 100 - 109 |
Hypertensive Crisis (Stage 3) | > 180 | > 110 |
Low blood pressure
In case of low blood pressure numbers (Hypotension), direct health risks are normally not to be expected, but the following symptoms can occur:
- Circulatory problems, dizziness, collapse or fainting spells
- Reduced ability to concentrate
- Fatigue
- Cold hands and feet
Normal blood pressure
Within the categories optimal/normal/high-normal, usually blood pressure can be considered harmless. However, if the numbers are in the upper range of these categories, you should be careful to avoid an increase to hypertension numbers.
Regular measurements of blood pressure at home or regular medical examinations by a doctor are therefore a good preventive measure, even if the numbers seem to be normal.
At numbers of 140 to 90 mmHg and above, high blood pressure (Hypertension) is usually diagnosed. This does not necessarily mean that medication is needed, but there is an increased risk of health impairments.
Even if you feel healthy and comfortable with high blood pressure numbers, it is definitely recommended to talk to a doctor. If high blood pressure is left untreated, there is a risk of serious illnesses, including strokes and heart attacks.
What is blood pressure and why is this important?
Blood is pumped through our bloodstream by the heart. This creates pressure on the vessel walls. If the arteries are elastic, this pressure can be cushioned well.
With age, the elasticity of the blood vessels decreases. Their ability to expand is reduced and your blood pressure will rise. This can lead to an increased risk of cardiovascular diseases. It can even lead to a heart attack or a stroke.
Learn more