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1. Why is there something rather than nothing?
Our presence in the universe is something too bizarre for words. The mundaneness of our daily lives cause us take our existence for granted — but every once in awhile we're cajoled out of that complacency and enter into a profound state of existential awareness, and we ask: Why is there all this stuff in the universe, and why is it governed by such exquisitely precise laws? And why should anything exist at all? We inhabit a universe with such things as spiral galaxies, the aurora borealis, and SpongeBob Squarepants. And as Sean Carroll notes, "Nothing about modern physics explains why we have these laws rather than some totally different laws, although physicists sometimes talk that way — a mistake they might be able to avoid if they took philosophers more seriously." And as for the philosophers, the best that they can come up with is the anthropic principle — the notion that our particular universe appears the way it does by virtue of our presence as observers within it — a suggestion that has an uncomfortably tautological ring to it.
2. Is our universe real?
This the classic Cartesian question. It essentially asks, how do we know that what we see around us is the real deal, and not some grand illusion perpetuated by an unseen force (who René Descartes referred to as the hypothesized 'evil demon')? More recently, the question has been reframed as the "brain in a vat" problem, or the Simulation Argument. And it could very well be that we're the products of an elaborate simulation. A deeper question to ask, therefore, is whether the civilization running the simulation is also in a simulation — a kind of supercomputer regression (or simulationception). Moreover, we may not be who we think we are. Assuming that the people running the simulation are also taking part in it, our true identities may be temporarily suppressed, to heighten the realness of the experience. This philosophical conundrum also forces us to re-evaluate what we mean by "real." Modal realistsargue that if the universe around us seems rational (as opposed to it being dreamy, incoherent, or lawless), then we have no choice but to declare it as being real and genuine. Or maybe, as Cipher said after eating a piece of "simulated" steak in The Matrix, "Ignorance is bliss."
3. Do we have free will?
Also called the dilemma of determinism, we do not know if our actions are controlled by a causal chain of preceding events (or by some other external influence), or if we're truly free agents making decisions of our own volition. Philosophers (and now some scientists) have been debating this for millennia, and with no apparent end in sight. If our decision making is influenced by an endless chain of causality, then determinism is true and we don't have free will. But if the opposite is true, what's called indeterminism, then our actions must be random — what some argue is still not free will. Conversely, libertarians (no, not political libertarians, those are other people), make the case for compatibilism — the idea that free will is logically compatible with deterministic views of the universe. Compounding the problem are advances in neuroscience showing that our brains make decisions before we're even conscious of them. But if we don't have free will, then why did we evolve consciousness instead of zombie-minds? Quantum mechanics makes this problem even more complicated by suggesting that we live in a universe of probability, and that determinism of any sort is impossible. And as Linas Vepstas has said, "Consciousness seems to be intimately and inescapably tied to the perception of the passage of time, and indeed, the idea that the past is fixed and perfectly deterministic, and that the future is unknowable. This fits well, because if the future were predetermined, then there'd be no free will, and no point in the participation of the passage of time."
4. Does God exist?
Simply put, we cannot know if God exists or not. Both the atheists and believers are wrong in their proclamations, and the agnostics are right. True agnostics are simply being Cartesian about it, recognizing the epistemological issues involved and the limitations of human inquiry. We do not know enough about the inner workings of the universe to make any sort of grand claim about the nature of reality and whether or not a Prime Mover exists somewhere in the background. Many people defer to naturalism — the suggestion that the universe runs according to autonomous processes — but that doesn't preclude the existence of a grand designer who set the whole thing in motion (what's called deism). And as mentioned earlier, we may live in a simulation where the hacker gods control all the variables. Or perhaps the gnostics are right and powerful beings exist in some deeper reality that we're unaware of. These aren't necessarily the omniscient, omnipotent gods of the Abrahamic traditions — but they're (hypothetically) powerful beings nonetheless. Again, these aren't scientific questions per se — they're more Platonic thought experiments that force us to confront the limits of human experience and inquiry.
5. Is there life after death?
Before everyone gets excited, this is not a suggestion that we'll all end up strumming harps on some fluffy white cloud, or find ourselves shoveling coal in the depths of Hell for eternity. Because we cannot ask the dead if there's anything on the other side, we're left guessing as to what happens next. Materialists assume that there's no life after death, but it's just that — an assumption that cannot necessarily be proven. Looking closer at the machinations of the universe (or multiverse), whether it be through a classical Newtonian/Einsteinian lens, or through the spooky filter of quantum mechanics, there's no reason to believe that we only have one shot at this thing called life. It's a question of metaphysics and the possibility that the cosmos (what Carl Sagan described as "all that is or ever was or ever will be") cycles and percolates in such a way that lives are infinitely recycled. Hans Moravec put it best when, speaking in relation to the quantum Many Worlds Interpretation, said that non-observance of the universe is impossible; we must always find ourselves alive and observing the universe in some form or another. This is highly speculative stuff, but like the God problem, is one that science cannot yet tackle, leaving it to the philosophers.
6. Can you really experience anything objectively?
There's a difference between understanding the world objectively (or at least trying to, anyway) and experiencing it through an exclusively objective framework. This is essentially the problem of qualia — the notion that our surroundings can only be observed through the filter of our senses and the cogitations of our minds. Everything you know, everything you've touched, seen, and smelled, has been filtered through any number of physiological and cognitive processes. Subsequently, your subjective experience of the world is unique. In the classic example, the subjective appreciation of the color red may vary from person to person. The only way you could possibly know is if you were to somehow observe the universe from the "conscious lens" of another person in a sort of Being John Malkovich kind of way — not anything we're likely going to be able to accomplish at any stage of our scientific or technological development. Another way of saying all this is that the universe can only be observed through a brain (or potentially a machine mind), and by virtue of that, can only be interpreted subjectively. But given that the universe appears to be coherent and (somewhat) knowable, should we continue to assume that its true objective quality can never be observed or known? It's worth noting that much of Buddhist philosophy is predicated on this fundamental limitation (what they call emptiness), and a complete antithesis to Plato's idealism.
7. What is the best moral system?
Essentially, we'll never truly be able to distinguish between "right" and "wrong" actions. At any given time in history, however, philosophers, theologians, and politicians will claim to have discovered the best way to evaluate human actions and establish the most righteous code of conduct. But it's never that easy. Life is far too messy and complicated for there to be anything like a universal morality or an absolutist ethics. The Golden Rule is great (the idea that you should treat others as you would like them to treat you), but it disregards moral autonomy and leaves no room for the imposition of justice (such as jailing criminals), and can even be used to justify oppression (Immanuel Kant was among its most staunchest critics). Moreover, it's a highly simplified rule of thumb that doesn't provision for more complex scenarios. For example, should the few be spared to save the many? Who has more moral worth: a human baby or a full-grown great ape? And as neuroscientists have shown, morality is not only a culturally-ingrained thing, it's also a part of our psychologies (the Trolly Problem is the best demonstration of this). At best, we can only say that morality is normative, while acknowledging that our sense of right and wrong will change over time.
8. What are numbers?
We use numbers every day, but taking a step back, what are they, really — and why do they do such a damn good job of helping us explain the universe (such as Newtonian laws)? Mathematical structures can consist of numbers, sets, groups, and points — but are they real objects, or do they simply describe relationships that necessarily exist in all structures? Plato argued that numbers were real (it doesn't matter that you can't "see" them), but formalists insisted that they were merely formal systems (well-defined constructions of abstract thought based on math). This is essentially an ontological problem, where we're left baffled about the true nature of the universe and which aspects of it are human constructs and which are truly tangible.


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Agency Staff
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subset: commoncrawl


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'The Mighty Ducks: Game Changers' Trailer: Welcome Back, Gordon Bombay
25 years after their last live-action appearance, the Mighty Ducks are flocking to streaming.
(I'm so, so sorry.)
The story of the live-action Mighty Ducks franchise gets its first new entry in a quarter century in The Mighty Ducks: Game Changers, a ten-part series coming to Disney+ next month. The series, set decades after the events of the original Mighty Ducks trilogy, is about a new team of lovable losers — I mean these guys are a regular bunch of bears who are bad news, or even a crew of giants who are little — who get some very reluctant help from Gordon Bombay, the coach of the original Ducks. Somewhere along the way Coach Bombay (Emilio Estevez) lost his love of hockey. What are the odds these new Ducks help reignite it? Yeah, probably not going to happen. He's just going to remain a grumpy old stick in the mud the whole time. That's my prediction.
Here's the full trailer for the new series, which also stars Lauren Graham:
And here's the show's official synopsis:
In the 10-episode season set in present day Minnesota, the Mighty Ducks have evolved from scrappy underdogs to an ultra-competitive, powerhouse youth hockey team. After 12-year-old Evan Morrow (Brady Noon) is unceremoniously cut from the Ducks, he and his mom, Alex (Lauren Graham), set out to build their own team of misfits to challenge the cutthroat, win-at-all-costs culture of youth sports today. With the help of Gordon Bombay (Emilio Estevez), they rediscover the joys of playing just for love of the game.
The Mighty Ducks: Game Changers premieres on Disney+ on Friday, March 26.
Gallery — Surprising Movies Available on Disney+:


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Watching sunset at river gangesby rupaghosh As the sun went down at Krishnaghat, Patna, Bihar on Ganges, the holy
Location (click the links to see all photos for each location)
Country: India Sunsets State/Region: bihar Sunsets City: patna Sunsets Tags: skyline, sky, beautiful, light, bright, fiery, lovely, summer, black, scenery, colour, Nature, Outdoors, cloud, scenic, glow, color, shine, background, relaxation, sunlight, travel, heaven, Scene, Amazing, wind, incredible, gorgeous, White, space, idyllic, view, high, clear, beauty, mind, ENERGY, weather, freedom, day, fluffy, MARVELLOUS, wonderful, awsome, paint, draw, TREAT, CANVAS, STUPENDOUS, BEST SUNART, FILL UP, HOMELY, elegance, classic, top, ultimate, air, brightly, climate, cloudscape, condensation, cumulus, environment, meteorology, open, ozone, pattern, purity, skylight, stratosphere, transparent, BIHAR, India. Patna
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Photo Name: Watching sunset at river ganges
Country: India State/Region: bihar City: patna Camera: canon is 3300
Ageless. Classy.
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Country: INDIA
State/Region: WEST BENGAL City: KOLKATA |


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Planar LED Video Wall Serves as Focal Point in Bank's New, High-Tech Executive Boardroom
Founded in 1834 and headquartered in Harvard Square near the center of Cambridge, Massachusetts, Cambridge Savings Bank is a full-service banking institution with 17 branches located across Massachusetts. In 2019, the bank consolidated its back-office operations from three sites into a new operations center in Waltham, renovating a 76,000-square-foot building to create office space with amenities, abundant natural light and an open design.
The operations center also includes a large executive boardroom with a 28-foot-long conference table. When the boardroom was being designed, Dan Fraine, Cambridge Savings Bank senior vice president of facilities, said the vision was to create a modern, high-tech space fitted with the latest in audio equipment and video wall technology. "The driving force behind our search for a video wall was to incorporate something large enough, and with high enough quality, to offer clear viewing from any distance in the room," Fraine said.
As the bank's team investigated options, bezel size became a concern, said Daniel Martell, Cambridge Savings Bank first vice president of facilities. "For displaying graphics or spreadsheets, bezels can interrupt the data on the screen," he said. "We wanted to minimize that."
InfoComm informs choice of direct view LED
To advise on a solution, the bank's facilities team began a consultation with audio visual integrator and technology solutions provider Adtech Systems and Senior Account Executive and Systems Designer Jim Ares, who invited Dan Fraine to meet him in at the InfoComm tradeshow to look at display technologies.
"InfoComm provides a unique opportunity to evaluate different solutions and compare resolutions to really understand what you would be getting with projection, a four-panel video wall or fine pitch LED," Ares said.
At InfoComm, the investigation soon began to focus on direct view LED and the difference between varying pixel pitches. "We took a deep dive into understanding how close or far away people would be sitting from the video wall, as well as what kind of content would be shown," Ares said. "Is it Excel spreadsheets? PowerPoint? Video? How good does it need to look? The experience of standing in front of each option and understanding what was going to be displayed helped the client to become fully engaged in the technology and make the best decision, weighing different costs based on clarity."
Ultimately, Fraine and the bank team selected LED display technology from Planar, leading to the installation of a nearly 10-foot-long, 6-foot-high Planar® TVF Series LED video wall with a 1.5mm pixel pitch (TVF1.5) in a 5x5 configuration—the focal point of a boardroom technology package that includes video conferencing, camera voice tracking system, retractable table microphones and wireless presentation capability.
The Planar TVF Series LED video wall gives the bank's operational teams a tool for video conferencing, presentations and supporting large-scale meetings, according to Martell. "The quality is great. Whether you're in the closest or the farthest seat at the table, the image is seamless and clear," he said. "It makes quite the impression on people who walk into the room."


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1.Applicant should be less than the age of 40
2.Applicant should hold Bachelor's degree in correlated disciplines 3.HSK level 5 or above 4.Be in good health condition
1.Photocopy of valid passport
With photo, passport number &expiration date and name included. 2.Passport-sized photo A passport-sized photo taken recently of the applicant. 3.Bachelor's degree diploma Graduation certificate should be in Chinese or English.If not, it should be translated into Chinese or English and be notarized. 4.Transcript of undergraduate school 5.HSK Certificate (No need for English-taught program) Level 5 or above 6.Two recommendation letters(optional) From professor,associate professor or equivalents. 7.Photocopy of 1st page to 7th page of your valid passport Concerning about your entering/exiting any other countries. If students have never been to any other country, please give us the copy version of passport from the 1st page to the 7th page which demonstrated that have never been to any other country. |


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Samuel Adams Is Selling $200 Beer That's Illegal in 12 States
Talk about a stiff drink.
Samuel Adams is now offering a beer that is 28% alcohol by volume -- it's so potent that it can't be sold in a dozen states. It's part of the brewery's Utopias line of beer and fetches a whopping $200 per bottle.
Only 13,000 bottles will be released, but even with the limited run, that's a lot of cash for a bottle of beer.
"Samuel Adams starts with a blend of two-row pale malt combined with Munich and Caramel 60 malts, which gives the beers its deep, ruby color," reports Esquire. "Three varieties of German Noble hops, including Spalt Spalter, Hallertau Mittelfrueh, and Tettnang Tettnanger, are added to balance the malt's sweetness. Once the beer is brewed, special yeast strains are added including one that's usually used in the making of champagne and a 'ninja yeast,' which can survive in a highly alcoholic environment."
We're not exactly sure what that means, but we love the phrase "ninja yeast." That's gotta be worth some of the $200 price tag, right?
"My original idea for Utopias was to push the boundaries of craft beer by brewing an extreme beer that was unlike anything any brewer had conceived," said Jim Koch, who heads Samuel Adams' parent company. "I'm proud to present to drinkers this lunatic fringe of extreme beer worthy of the Utopias name."
Now, please excuse us while we go to the bank to apply for a loan.


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Bobby Olejnik
Shaun Brisley
Mark Little
Michael Bostwick
Grant McCann
Joe Newell
Nat Knight-Percival
George Thorne
Lee Tomlin
George Boyd
Saido Berahino
Joe Day
Craig Alcock
Gabriel Zakuani
Danny Swanson
Kane Ferdinand
J Clarke-Harris
Dwight Gayle
Ipswich frailties on full view against fellow strugglers Peterborough
Mick McCarthy has a big task ahead to reverse Ipswich's cycle of decline, as a stuttering draw with Peterborough demonstrated.
Perspectives are changing at Portman Road. Mick McCarthy, in his fifth game in charge of Ipswich Town, saw a draw at home to Peterborough United, bottom club in the Championship, as "a point won". After their first-half performance, described by one diehard as "the worst 45 minutes I've seen anywhere", the manager was right. This was Tosh v Posh and only an equalising penalty before the hour kept them off the bottom themselves. Twelve seasons ago they finished fifth in the Premier League.
In their 11th season in the second tier they are its oldest inhabitants. For the first three, despite falling into administration, they threatened a return to the first. For five of the past seven they have ended in the lower half. Their malaise appears chronic. Off the field they present as fine a front as ever. On it they presented nothing on Saturday, most notably confidence.
Ipswich had no entitlement to it. They had lost their last game 6-0 at Leicester City and McCarthy admitted his hurt. "I pride myself on my teams being hard to beat, resolute and organised," he said after that. In eight minutes here they looked a pushover, irresolute and chaotic and it got no better until the second half.
Lee Tomlin gathered Joe Newell's pass forward from the left, feinted to slip on to Saido Berahino, covered by Aaron Cresswell, and found that Danny Higginbotham had bought the dummy and left him clear. The rest was as easy as the penalty conceded in the same minute at Leicester. McCarthy called it "another soft, milky one" and promised to "pick the bones out of how we conceded it". It will not take long. Bones were absent, as was understanding. Higginbotham, from Stoke, was one of five loanees in the starting XI and is better than that. "Our passing was nervy," McCarthy said. "At half-time I asked if they could pass to the right team-mate."
In the second half they occasionally did but how their fans must yearn for Arnold Mühren and Frans Thijssen looking forward where Nigel Reo-Coker, another on loan, looks square or back. In the season's first game a midfield of average age 20 and mostly homegrown ran a seasoned Blackburn Rovers off their feet in a 1-1 draw. Saturday's four averaged 29 and no cheer was more heartfelt than that greeting Luke Hyam, 21, in the 80th minute. DJ Campbell, also a loanee, converted the penalty but Darren Ferguson, Posh's manager, was justified in seeing "a missed opportunity to get three points". His three-man defence was untroubled. "There's a great trust between myself and the players," he said. McCarthy has yet to establish it.
Arguably he has stopped a rot that was spreading under Paul Jewell. In five games he has landed as many points, seven, as Ipswich got in 13 before, though their other defeat was by 5-0 and their goal difference is minus 25. In a season and a half Jewell took them from 19th to 24th. In the same time before that Roy Keane led them from ninth to 19th.
All three appointments suggested a cultural switch from the club's aesthetic tradition to something harder-nosed in supposed keeping with the needs of the age. Jim Magilton was last of the old guard. Matt Holland, another stalwart, remains in touch as patron of the club's charitable trust. But the continuity that marked Ipswich with a special distinction seems to have been lost under the ownership of Marcus Evans since 2007, blessed though his arrival was with sponsorship guarantees to 2013 and David Sullivan sniffing.
Bringing in Simon Clegg, formerly CEO of the British Olympic Association, as chief executive bespoke business. Clegg introduced Keane and this season Steve Williams, Olympic rowing gold medallist, as a high-performance consultant to give the club an edge. Evans's credo is "cutting-edge issues addressed by cutting-edge speak". Ipswich have scored 14 goals in 18 games. Crowds have fallen by another 1,400 from last season's 7% drop. McCarthy said on arrival: "The club has a terrific fan base." At least the end boo was less than the interval one.
Jeremy Alexander (The Guardian)


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273. Of all the paths the Eightfold Path is the best; of all the truths the Four Noble Truths are the best; of all things passionlessness is the best: of men the Seeing One (the Buddha) is the best.
274. This is the only path; there is none other for the purification of insight. Tread this path, and you will bewilder Mara.
275. Walking upon this path you will make an end of suffering. Having discovered how to pull out the thorn of lust, I make known the path.
276. You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way. Those meditative ones who tread the path are released from the bonds of Mara.
277. "All conditioned things are impermanent" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
278. "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
279. "All things are not-self" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
280. The idler who does not exert himself when he should, who though young and strong is full of sloth, with a mind full of vain thoughts — such an indolent man does not find the path to wisdom.
281. Let a man be watchful of speech, well controlled in mind, and not commit evil in bodily action. Let him purify these three courses of action, and win the path made known by the Great Sage.
282. Wisdom springs from meditation; without meditation wisdom wanes. Having known these two paths of progress and decline, let a man so conduct himself that his wisdom may increase.
283. Cut down the forest (lust), but not the tree; from the forest springs fear. Having cut down the forest and the underbrush (desire), be passionless, O monks! [20]
284. For so long as the underbrush of desire, even the most subtle, of a man towards a woman is not cut down, his mind is in bondage, like the sucking calf to its mother.
285. Cut off your affection in the manner of a man who plucks with his hand an autumn lotus. Cultivate only the path to peace, Nibbana, as made known by the Exalted One.
286. "Here shall I live during the rains, here in winter and summer" — thus thinks the fool. He does not realize the danger (that death might intervene).
287. As a great flood carries away a sleeping village, so death seizes and carries away the man with a clinging mind, doting on his children and cattle.
288. For him who is assailed by death there is no protection by kinsmen. None there are to save him — no sons, nor father, nor relatives.
289. Realizing this fact, let the wise man, restrained by morality, hasten to clear the path leading to Nibbana.


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About the Episode
Ade Olonoh, the founder of Formstack, Formspring, and Jell, shares his unique perspective on current times as a Black tech founder and investor in America. From the causes of systemic racism to the disparities holding the Black community back, Ade sheds light on these struggles and why they still exist. Join us for a conversation about race, diversity in tech, and why now is the time for tough conversations.
Episode Highlights
Meet Our Guest
Ade Olonoh can't remember a time when he didn't love technology. As an entrepreneur, CEO, and tech founder, Ade is an inspiring leader who has the needed mix of brain, drive, and heart that leads to success. He's grown companies to 30 million users and raised over 16 million in funding. Yet one hurdle has always stood in his way. "You never really know what opportunities you lost because of the color of your skin."
Episode Transcript
Chris Byers: Welcome to Ripple Effect, a podcast from Formstack revealing how simple decisions can have a lasting effect on others. I'm your host, Chris Byers. Today, we're doing something a bit different than what you may have heard in previous episodes. 2020 has been a year many of us did not anticipate from the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic to the injustice and inequality that we're seeing more clearly here in the U.S. And we want to do our part in sharing voices and perspectives to our community and how we can think about being more proactive and take action to really just improve the world around us. At Formstack, we've come to our own realization that not only do we need to say something, but we also need to do something. And so we started with our own statement that Black Lives Matter. And we affirmed that we want to be a support to the Black community today.
In addition to that, we've hired a diversity talent specialist to help make our organization more welcoming to diverse candidates, as well as helping us bring in a more diverse candidate pool. We're finding ways for our employees to give their time and money to help fight social injustices and inequality. And then, we're starting conversations. And if you hear anything today, I think the most important thing you should hear is about conversations and really education. What we all need to do right now is think about having conversations with people around us about race, racism, et cetera. And so in this episode, we have Ade Olonoh on the show. He is Formstack's founder and he is here to have a conversation with us about a personal story he shared. And it's all about sharing his story on racism and how we can improve diversity and inclusion in our own workplaces. So take a listen.
Today, we have a really cool opportunity to get to talk to somebody who has been really important in the history of our company and the history really in my life. He's going to help us explore a topic today that I think is really top of mind for a lot of us and trying to figure out how do we best approach going forward. And that topic actually covers a lot of things. It's about racism, the challenge of the Black community, and ways that we need to help overcome those challenges. It's about equality. And, you know, who I've got today with us is our founder, Ade Olonoh. Ade has founded really a number of companies, one of them being Formstack and we've gotten the benefit of being able to be a part of this organization and grow together. But more importantly than that, he and I have been friends for 23 years, I think at this point. And I just think it's a really cool opportunity to be together and be able to talk about some of this. And so I want to welcome Ade.
Ade Olonoh: Thanks, Chris. Excited to be here.
Chris Byers: Excellent. Well, maybe just as a quick aside before we get into more serious things. Where was it we met 23 years ago? Do you remember? I think we were both working at the same place. I'm not sure exactly if that's what caused us to meet, but where was that?
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, I don't know if that was really the first time we met, but the first time I remember is when we were both working in I.T. at Anderson University. Where we were both going to school. Is that what you remember?
Chris Byers: That's what I'm remembering. Who knows exactly where we met along the way. But I know we got to work together in I.T. off and on over a couple of years and then that eventually led to founding a company together and then Ade founded Formstack later on and it kind of worked out well, then he founded yet another company. And so at the time I said, hey, if I can come help be a part of finding the future for Formstack, I can do that. And that turned into just kind of a long term role. But what's really interesting is Ade and I have talked about everything over the course of all these years, and especially in the past 10 years, we've talked about family and business and we've had endless meals together and endless meals with our families. And yet, you know, what's fascinating and sad is one of the conversations we never talked about until three weeks ago was race. And the impact of that on Ade, the impact of that around us in the world. And right now, I think it's a really important time where we need to be having these conversations. And the fact that we haven't been having them has created an unnecessary just kind of layer of just not talking about the right things in our country. And so Ade, you wrote an article and it was titled I Can't Breathe. And you share your personal experiences with racism, prejudice, injustice, and in the opening you mentioned struggling on whether you should write or not. Can you talk a little bit about what made you write it? What helped you decide to finally put that together.
Ade Olonoh: So I wrote that about a week after the news about George Floyd came up. And like I start out in the piece, I really struggled for a number of different reasons. One of which is that I felt like as I was thinking about, and how the whole country was talking about George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and Breonna Taylor. I felt like I was a little bit uncomfortable talking about my own struggles because they pale compared to those stories. I mean, clearly, I'm still here living and breathing. I haven't had incidents where I've been really attacked by police or anything, you know, to that extent. And so I really struggled with how do I talk about my struggles being Black in America in the context of those stories, which are just much more tragic. So I think that was part of it. But then in general, I struggle with kind of what you alluded to. I think growing up in the 90s here, it was almost like there's kind of an unsaid thing. You know, we shouldn't talk about race. And I've always struggled, you know, as somebody who's trying to succeed professionally. I think a lot of Black people in the workplace kind of struggle with this. If you talk about race, then you're kind of going to be pigeonholed into this point of view where, you know, you're somebody who always brings up this issue and it makes it uncomfortable for others. I have unfortunately swung too far to the other side where I don't talk about it publicly. It's kind of a struggle on what's the right way to approach that? How do I tell the story in a way that people would listen. Like finally just got to the point where I felt like I had to write something. And that article was kind of the outpouring of my background and what was on my mind.
Related: Fornmstack's Stance Against Inequality, Injustice, and Racism
Chris Byers: I do just fully agree. There's some message and I can't tieback exactly when it happened, what it was, but there was some message along the way that was definitely if we don't talk about this, then it's not an issue anymore. And I've kind of thought about the stupidity of that, I guess, in the past couple weeks where, you know,= if you had some sort of maybe disagreement with somebody or if you had an issue that was not helping your relationship with someone kind of succeed. And if you ever said to your friend, you know what I'm going to do? I'm not going to talk about it. The response would be like, that's stupid. Like that is totally not going to be the way you ever actually communicate with somebody. You're just going to bury these thoughts and ideas. And if you never talk about them, then you've, like, lost an opportunity in your relationship. And I think it's just fascinating how this conversation. I mean, between you and I, even about this article was just extremely eye opening for me to say. Oh, actually, it's also OK to have this conversation. And it's OK to say we do have different backgrounds and that does mean something and has impacted the way that we've lived or grown up. You'll get to see a link to this article if you're listening, and we'll post that in the shownotes or otherwise here in a bit. But definitely worth a read to kind of get some more color here. But we'll talk through this a little bit more.
So, you know, in the article, you I mean, first of all, just extremely eye opening, moving, and beautifully moving in a way where I saw so many people who I know care about you, share it with other people. And it was great for them to be able to say, you know what, I now see something I might not have otherwise. But how as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, as a tech founder, how have these experiences shaped your professional journey?
Ade Olonoh: I talk in the piece and I won't rehash the whole thing, but essentially I talk about how eye opening and kind of my journey growing up here in the U.S. is different because I'm Black and how that gets reinforced in all these small ways throughout my career. And just as I'm growing up and yeah, I guess in terms of my professional journey, I mean, I'll say I talk in the piece about how one of the things that I allude to in the piece that's really hard is that, you know that racism exists in the country. It's empirical, but you don't always know the ways it impacts you. There were jobs that I thought I was qualified to get, that I didn't get an interview or didn't get a job offer, and maybe none of them were because of racism or implicit bias. But maybe some of them, more statistically I would have to assume so.
Similar in terms of raising capital, as an entrepreneur, there are times where many, many times that I heard no from investors, which is common for entrepreneurs, whether you're White, Black, Brown, male, or female. But sometimes you kind of walk away from those experiences wondering, like, was it because of the color of my skin or is it just because they didn't like my idea or something didn't really click on the pitch? And so what when you think about your question about how it shaped my professional journey, I don't have any of the stark stories. Nobody ever kind of kicked me out of their offices saying, I'm not going to invest in you or I'm not going to hire you because you're Black. But it's something that was top of mind as I kind of walked through my journey. The end result was I always felt like I had to work a little bit harder. I always felt like, both in terms of output, just in terms of my own psychology as well, to kind of put my head down and ignore the reactions from the outside world and carve my own path. So that's a very nuanced answer. But in terms of how it affected me. I would say it's something you think about all the time, but never really know what opportunities you lost because of the color of your skin.
Chris Byers: If I think about my own life and how I've never left an interview, left a capital raising opportunity, left a conversation and thought because of the color of my skin, it mattered. It's not even a thought that comes to my mind. And so I can completely understand how that is a weight you carry. You're trying to raise money, and that's already hard enough work. And if there's just one more thing that causes your own doubts or causes you to just wonder. It works against you and it makes it all the more difficult to get done the job you're just trying to get done like everybody else. It is challenging.
Ade Olonoh: One way to think about it, too, is, you know, walking into a VC pitch. And as you walk into a boardroom and all the investors you are pitching to are white men and they tell you no, and you look at their portfolio website and it's predominantly white founders, again, men. And I think the stats are that only about one percent of venture investments are to Black founders. And I forget, I actually forget the number of women that are invested, but it's, again, single digit percentages. You know, you have to think there's a pattern here that the industry has shown. And then similarly, if you're applying to work in a company and you look at their website, and it's predominantly white men, then you have to wonder, like, do I really fit in here? And, you know, despite their best intentions, am starting a few steps behind other entrepreneurs or other candidates, you know, when you see kind of the results of who they're investing in and who they're hiring.
It's not enough to say we welcome everybody. You actually have to seek out and maybe work a little bit harder to make sure that people from underrepresented groups know they're welcome and that you're reaching out to hire those people.
Chris Byers: And I think it's fascinating, you're talking about technology, where we think of ourselves as the most progressive, the most, you know, ahead of the time in terms of whether it's anything from benefits or hiring more diversely or being open to new ideas. And yet, even in technology, you still have those questions. I'm curious, how do you think this does impact technology, what have you noticed that how it applies still to technology, even though we think of ourselves as forward thinking?
Ade Olonoh: It's really interesting to look at because as you said, I'm sure if you pull the people who work in technology and compare them to other industries that we think of as less progressive, that is true, that personally we probably have more progressive mindsets than other industries. But the interesting thing about technology is the systemic racial problems really are compounded when it comes to technology, because usually access to computer science education is something that's afforded to the wealthy people in this country or people with access to great schools and good backgrounds. And even something as maybe even something as specific as the people who are more likely to be good at coding are more likely to have laptops in the home or access to a computer at home.
I don't remember all the details about this, but I remember reading something relatively recently talking about how, kind of before the explosion of the PCs, kind of in the 80s, male female participation in computer science was about equal. But then what happened was that this article is speculating that with the rise of PCs in the home and PCs especially focused around gaming and the types of games that were on the early PCs, what happened is inevitably boys would kind of push out the girls from using the PCs because they were the ones playing the games and the action games. And then, you know, over time, that compounded to mean that there are fewer and fewer women that were in the computing field and then felt comfortable taking computer science classes and stuff like that.
So back to my point being that I think those types of effects compound. If you have fewer Black people able to succeed in school, especially around computer fields, and maybe that's because of access at home or access to great schools that are providing that, then that shows up kind of later with an attack. Similarly, when thinking about entrepreneurship, one of the big problems with venture and investing is that venture capital funds are typically looking for a lot of traction with the companies that they invest in. But in the very early days, it may be that Black entrepreneurs have much less access to kind of those friends and family rounds that they need to kind of get an idea off the ground before they even get the traction that gets the VCs.
It may be that even just kind of the lack of a safety net where they feel like if they tried something risky and failed, that they'd be able to brush themselves off and either get, you know, get a loan from friends and family or get a job to kind of replenish their bank account. And maybe they don't have a safety net that their White counterparts do. So that compounds as well to why, I think we see the problem so much more starkly in tech versus other industries that might be less risky.
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Chris Byers: You know, I think technology is really interesting here, too, because in technology, we're always thinking about solving problems really quickly. We're always thinking, oh, we're five minutes away. We're weeks away. We're a couple years away from solving major problems at speed. And yet what you're talking about is there are so many things that we've got to go so far back or wait a ways into the future to really make serious impact. We need to start an education and finding more fundamental ways to provide education on entrepreneurship or finding, to your point, access to capital or helping people even see there's an ecosystem that maybe they can join or be a part of to help new ideas. I'm curious, you are an investor, you've thought about these things. I'm curious if you've ideated on your own ways to how we could think about having some more long term impact.
Ade Olonoh: Yes. You're right in saying that. I mean, it's a very complicated issue. There are no overnight successes here or silver bullets to kind of solve the problem. So, yeah, I think it spans all of those things you touched on. I think it's, you know, it's education at an early age. It's access. It's even just things like people seeing themselves represented. So, I mean, just even the archetype we have of this successful entrepreneur, we look at people like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, you know, all white men. I'm not going to take anything from their accomplishments. They're incredible entrepreneurs. But some of it, I think is even just socializing more of the successes, people of color and women who are successful and kind of changing the way we have a conversation about what an entrepreneur even is. I think it's a systemic things; I think it's in some ways, it can also be a copout to kind of say, well, it's a pipeline problem or that these issues are too complex. I think sometimes it really just does come down to trying to make a difference by being conscious of your own biases and working on that personally. I think for every investor really working on their network and make sure that they are talking to founders of color or they're talking to female founders just as much as they are talking to White male founders or at least in proportion to the population. Right. And so maybe working a little bit harder to make sure that you're in the right networks, that see that kind of deal flow and be conscious of your own biases and working through that when talking to people, because, yes, the systemic issues are definitely there. But I think we can all grow in the moment in terms of how we approach our business.
Chris Byers: Yeah. And, you know, I think you make a great point. I hope that we all walk away from this conversation hearing there are things to do. Absolutely. Now, I think one of the things, I will say as a White person, I have come to realize is, first of all, just in general how much racism still exists and how much, in a way, I support those things and have supported systems that create this longer term kind of systemic racism. And I don't tend to think about my past a lot. I don't think about where I came from. And yet I don't see, therefore, how many bits of access I guess I've had over time, whether it's capital or otherwise. I can think about, you know, one of the things I've learned in the past three weeks is just how difficult or impossible it was to get a mortgage as a Black person in the 1950s. And, you know, I think about when I was trying to pay off some debt. My wife and I were trying to pay off some debt early in our marriage. And one of the things that allowed us to pay off that final bit of debt was an inheritance I got from my grandparents, who I know got a mortgage in the 1950s, and part of that inheritance was from them selling their house. And so these are things that most days I would never think of as like, oh, that's an advantage I have. And yet have completely played into some of the ways that I've been able to to move forward.
I wonder, as we do think about things that we can do now, you've brought up some of them. I know as a company there's really a couple of messages that I've been trying to just begin to talk about. One is I want to make sure we have a space for conversations. As you and I both know, as we all know, social media is a horrendous place to have a conversation. It's all about headlines and you know my dramatic view on the world. But I think one of the challenges is we're not talking about these things and we're not able to say, hey, can we sit down and have a pure level one to one conversation about your views, my views, how can we learn together and grow together? I'm curious if you've seen some good examples of conversations beginning in the past, in the past month. You know, one of those things that we're talking about is having conversations, and as a company, we're trying to begin to facilitate that so we can have maybe a third party come in and help us just have some better, real conversations together about race, racism, equality, and how we as a people can make sure we are treating the people around us on a pure level and truly as equal and making sure they feel comfortable being around us. The other thing that we're talking about is really diversity at a greater level. So we have had a very broad, very broad diversity kind of plan in the past week. We've talked about it internally, but we've not made a big deal of it, frankly. And in fact, I've also taken a very inbound approach to it. I guess where I said, yes, everyone is welcome here. I hope this feels like a comfortable place. But one of the things I'm realizing that really just recently is that's not enough. We need to be much more proactive at saying both what are the things that we do in our hiring practices and our onboarding, even in our marketing. How do we show up and how do we look to people who might not look as much like us? And how do we make sure that feels less like the case? And so, you know, I think one of my questions is, what do you think some things technology companies can do to improve diversity, inclusion, and really making a better effort here.
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, I think you're thinking about things the right way. I guess to start I mean, just to underscore the point, I think being proactive about it is the right approach. And I think that's what's encouraging about the conversation that a lot of people are having right now, is that realizing that it's not enough to just not be racist, but you actually have to be anti-racist and especially recognizing that there's systemic racism in this country. You have to be proactive to counteract that. And so, yeah, like you said, it's not just enough to say, oh, yeah, we welcome everybody. You actually have to seek out and maybe work a little bit harder to make sure that people from underrepresented groups know that they're welcome there and that you're reaching out to hiring those people. I think, as you know, the longer you go as a company and the less representation you have in your company, the harder it is. Nobody wants to be, or very few people want to be the only Black person in a company or the only woman to work in a company. Right. And this gets magnified.
So in terms of your question, what can tech companies do about it? I think understanding that, prioritizing it in a way that maybe it hasn't been prioritized before. And I think at this moment, we all have to ask ourselves. Yes, we care about these issues, but how much we care about it. Do we care about it enough to really make it one of the key corporate initiatives and put money and time behind it? And that may mean hiring people within the company to really kind of spearhead these initiatives. To that point, I think one of the most important things, anything within business, you need to measure what's happening within the company and have accountability behind those numbers. I think when I think about it, I'm certainly no expert around H.R. and may not have all the tricks in my tool belt in terms of how to solve the diversity equation within companies. But I know like foundationally, you have to start with understanding well, measuring your pipeline, measure throughout the interview process to better understand that retention around all of the dimensions of race and gender and sexual identity. Understand like where we're falling short and where is there room for improvement. And so just creating that mechanism and that infrastructure to measure and hold accountable is one of the first places to start to make sure that, like, something meaningfully changes, and it's not just a nice sounding initiative, but that there's actually teeth behind it towards making change.
Chris Byers: Yeah. And I think for us, we hired a diversity talent acquisition specialist early this year. And I will say, frankly, we probably wouldn't have done much reporting, maybe in terms of a leadership team or something, but not publicly. Again, out of a naivety that like this is going to work itself out over time. And one of the things we said last week to the team is you're going to start to see a monthly report on this. And I know as an organization, we've always thought transparency is a huge key to creating good, accountable systems and showing reporting, because if I am showing this to you every month, then I better show some progress and show that we're doing a better job of finding the right places to both show up and are we learning how that talent funnel is working out or are we letting people drop out that shouldn't drop out. And so I like that thinking. Anything else that comes to mind you just think companies should be doing to improve diversity, making sure it's more comfortable and engaging place for diverse team members?
Ade Olonoh:I think that, as I said, I think it's important to kind of look at the whole picture. So not just in the hiring process, but what happens to what the company looks like once you hired somebody who's unrepresented within the company. And so looking at retention, I think is important and really focusing on that inclusion part or diversity and inclusion. And so that means that they feel their voices are heard, does it feel like they're safe and comfortable and welcome at the company. But some of that also means do they have the same opportunity for growth within the company as do others. Right. And so I think back to measuring and measuring what retention looks like measuring what, you know, pay, looks like within the company across different diversity dimensions, measuring what kind of promotion looks like. Focusing on that part of the cycle and that part of the funnel is important, too. I mean, just in the same way that we think in our business, and Formstack is a SaaS business, we think about acquisition and retention and churn and kind of all those. And when we think and measure how we're doing as a business and think about the customer, I think you need to do that from an employee perspective as well. Look at the whole lifecycle and the holistic picture of what it means to work at a company.
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Chris Byers: Yeah, that's good. You know, 2020 has been a tough year as I think everybody knows. And, you know, if any of you were to ever be in the room with a Ade and I, one of the things you'd notice is, you know, both CEOs, both founders, we wouldn't necessarily, though, be the loudest person in the room. And in fact, you might not even notice we're there at times. And Ade, you've put yourself out there in a huge way, being extremely vulnerable. What are the things you're doing to kind of just stay mentally healthy figure out like, how do I both respond and frankly grieve at times of what's going on? But then also say, you know what, maybe there's hope in the world. Maybe there's something I can do.
Ade Olonoh: Yeah. So just, you know, personally, it's been a tough few weeks. And I would say, I guess to explain that a little bit more, because I think I've had a lot of conversations with Black friends, I think, who are kind of in the same boat. I remember vividly, you know, the Rodney King incidents back when I was as much younger. And there have been a number of incidents, kind of similar to that, that have broad visibility within the public sphere from Rodney King to George Floyd. And I think one of the struggles that I've had is, you know, each time a story like that flares up, like it brings a lot of emotions. There's anger, there's sadness. But in the end, it leaves a lot of hopelessness and thinking that nothing's changed. Right. And we've known about issues, especially surrounding kind of police brutality and criminal justice and how that's affected people of color disproportionately in this country. We've known about it for a while, but if anything, it's probably gotten worse in the last 20 years when you look at the number of Black people in prison and, you know, the militarization of police. Those trends have gone in the wrong direction.
And so I'll say one of the hardest things, to be honest, when I first heard about George Floyd, I was just kind of coming off a few weeks ago the Ahmaud Arbery case just really shook me. And when I heard about George Floyd, I read the headline and just went on to the next story. And I just wasn't in a place emotionally where I wanted to process it. And it took a few days before I was able to watch the video, before I was able to read the details of that. And the great thing that's happening now is there's a lot of conversation about all these problems and injustices. But I think one of the hard things emotionally is to wonder, like, is this really going to change? Is anything going to come out of this or are we just reopening old wounds but not really going to find any healing from that? And so that's a very indirect way to answer your question. I think it's helpful to give context just because I know I'm certainly not speaking for all Black people in the country, but I know for a lot they're going through a similar emotional journey. And that's why it's tough right now. It's hard sometimes. And I think we all need to be mindful that not every person of color really wants to have these conversations at the moment, just depending on where they are in their emotional journey.
But for me, I mean, I've had to do a number of things to kind of help myself stay healthy and sane. Some of it is just kind of fundamental things that I try to do on a regular basis. Exercise, meditate, eat well. Spend time with family. But some of it is just taking breaks from social media, taking breaks from the news, especially when I feel myself get caught up in the anger and emotion that's spurred by those mediums. And then I'd say the last thing is I really try to focus and kind of step back and say, well, how do I want things to change, like, how can I help contribute to that conversation in a positive way and what can I do? So that's practically it for me. I've been spending a lot more time learning and understanding these issues from a policy perspective or a sociological perspective, where my background knowledge, I'm a technologist and entrepreneur, so spending time learning more about these things I think kind of helps me understand the process better.
Chris Byers: If you're listening to this, everybody's going to get a broad set of responses to what's going on right now. And I know for me, I have, I'll say had to, and had to because I just understood something needed to be done in my own mind, in my own life. But I had to spend a great deal of time reading and watching videos and watching documentaries. I will say even I had to watch the video of George Floyd. There was a moment where I was like, you know what? If I really want to actually step forward and be a positive part of the change, I need to see some of the lows and be a part of some of the lows, I guess. And that was I mean, to anybody listening, I'd say if you've really just done surface level headline reading, if you're really just done a surface level attempt here, if you've frankly not had a conversation with somebody of color like around you, those are things you're missing out on. And I don't think you're going to progress in the way that I think we all need to to have the right conversations. And so I appreciate everybody who's taken time to really spend time reading and thinking and trying to understand like what is my perspective and how does it need to change and how do we need to improve to move forward. I know as a company, we have brought in some outside help to help us, first of all, as a leadership team. But then eventually as an organization to see where frankly, even where are we on this subject? Because, again, we're all at different places and we need to kind of begin to move toward the same destination. I know we've used an outside coaching group to help allow our team to call any time they want for coaching, counseling through this. Any particular subject matter, be it books, blogs, podcasts, etc., that you point people to to say, this is a great place to start?
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, there's been a lot of good ones that I've come across, especially recently. But I guess rather than rattle down a list, I'd say to your point, I think it's important for people to start somewhere that really kind of touches on both the history of systemic racism in this country and then kind of a full comprehensive overview of where we are today in terms of the criminal justice system. Probably the best thing that I've come across, and there may be others, but the documentary 13th on Netflix, I think does an excellent job of piecing all these things together. I'd say you start there and that at least kind of helps launch a starting point to see where you might want to dig deeper to kind of understand different components better. So personally, I'm reading Just Mercy right now and find it really eye opening on digging into the criminal justice system. But yeah, if anything, start with 13th, it is probably the easiest thing to consume.
Chris Byers: That's good. So, you know, one of the conversations that I've noticed is not kind of being had in this country is what certain things mean. And I guess I'd love your perspective. And I I think we should all note that it's your perspective. And I think you will say it's not everybody's belief exactly. But there are a couple of kind of thoughts, phrases, movements that I think might be valuable for the audience to kind of hear about what's going on here. And the first one is Black Lives Matter. Tell us what that means to you and what you think that means to the people who speak it and are out kind of thinking about it and kind of moving it forward.
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, certainly I don't claim to speak for all Black black people or for any particular organization or anything like that, speaking of Black Lives Matter. But yeah, to me, that just means that at its surface that, yes, Black lives matter. And I think that's highlighted because, you know, especially when you look at the history of Black lives in this country. And again, what's happening today, like the incidents, again, like George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, you know, Elijah McClain and so on, so forth, is that it's easy to feel like Black lives don't matter to the system. So all it is, this is highlighting the fact that, yes, they do and they should in this country. And that's not to say that other other people don't matter. Certainly they all do, but it's that this is one sector of society that has been long ignored. And we need to make sure that there is equality and justice for Black lives, just as there are for White lives in this country.
Chris Byers: Thank you for sharing that. I think one of the things that's been just eye opening for me in this time is if you look at the Hispanic community in the U.S., it has on the whole, especially at the size that it is and how much it represents to the U.S. today, not been in the U.S. Nearly as long as as kind of the Black community. And yet the Black community is behind the Hispanic community in terms of income, net worth. And as I looked at that, I thought, wow, there is definitely a problem when a community has been with us all, nearly always, is that far behind. There is something that speaks to why we need to speak about Black lives mattering today and why we need to point that out and make it a thing and make it make it the point. And so I thank you for sharing those thoughts.
Ade Olonoh: Yeah. And just speak on that real quick. I think the thing that's easy to forget and I mean, I think part of even going back to what we said in terms of during the 90s, the last couple of decades, it's almost been that the conversation has shifted in this country to talk about like we live in a post-racial society and feeling like racism was solved during the civil rights era. And clearly, I think we're saying very clearly that that's not the case. But even given the progress that was made in the civil rights era, it's discounting today, like how much of that history does matter. And like you said, that the injustices that happened in this country really weren't that long ago. When you think about it in the context of how it's affecting people's lives today. And maybe that's like the example you gave in terms of receiving an inheritance that helped you pay down loans. Well, you know, when Black people in this country started with nothing and weren't allowed to accumulate wealth and weren't allowed to have the freedoms to just basic freedoms within this country, and kind of starting so far behind, those things still matter and still make a difference today. That's the reason why the average net worth or the median net worth of Black households today is a tenth of that of White households. That that's still affecting us today. The things that happened, you know, 400 years ago, much less 50 years ago in this country. And Jim Crow and such. So, yeah, it does still matter to them.
Chris Byers: Thank you for that. The other thing that I think would be great to kind of express what you think is happening right now is there are protests going on all around the U.S. and in fact, if you think they're not happening because they're not hitting the news, it is actually because I think a number of very peaceful protests are going on right now all over the country. And so that's not making the news. But there is a message that is still trying to be kind of delivered at the moment. What do you think that is?
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, I mean, the protesters are asking for a bunch of different things. But I think, you know, right now the most critical issue, again, goes back to just we want changes in the policing systems in this country. We need changes in the criminal justice system. And I think and again, I don't speak for everybody, there are different perspectives in terms of what people want. But I think we need meaningful change beyond just I think what we saw a few years ago when the start of the Black Lives Matters protests. Largely inaction. But then I think there was a lot of talk and superficial things about like, you know, let's add training or like let's increase training within police forces to help them overcome racial biases. Let's add body cameras and invest in body cameras to help make sure that we're catching things that are happening.
And the reality is, as far as I can tell, most people are saying that didn't do much. And I think one thing real quick. The reason why the word systemic racism is so important, that term systemic racism, is because it highlights the fact that we have a system that in and of itself is disproportionately affecting people of color in this country. The issue is systemic. And so that's everything from, me personally, just really passionate about removing cash bail out of our system. The fact that we have people who can get arrested and though innocent until proven guilty just because they can't afford to pay a few hundred dollars or a few thousand dollars for bail, they're held in the system, which creates all these ripple effects. Like that in itself, it disproportionately affects people of color. And that itself is systemic racism. The war on drugs itself is an example of systemic racism. So I think we need to rethink fundamentally what are the things that we make illegal in this country and what are the punishments behind them? Why did that happen in the first place? And you can kind of look at the history. Understand why, you know, why was crack cocaine, sentencing for crack cocaine 10 times more than sentencing for powdered cocaine, the equivalent amount of powder cocaine? Why was marijuana made illegal in this country to begin with? And the answer to those, unfortunately, were racist things. Right. And so I think protesters are asking for a lot of things, but I think they're asking for meaningful reform to the criminal justice system so that we're not locking up people of color at disproportionate rates. We're not killing Black people at disproportionate rates. These systemic things need to change before we see the results that we want to see.
Chris Byers: So as we take all of this conversation in and as we think about kind of where we go from here, what are the things you hope people... How do we move forward? What is it so that we actually have that positive ripple effect and can look back days, weeks, months, years from now? What do you think the things are that we can do to move forward?
Ade Olonoh: Yeah, ultimately, I should start by saying that I'm more optimistic now than I probably ever have been that things will change. And one of the reasons why is because people are having conversations like this that are meaningful. And people do seem to, on a wide scale, trying to understand where and why systemic racism exists in this country. So, I mean, in terms of moving forward, I think just one, that needs to continue. Like you said earlier, I think if you haven't had conversations with people in your life, just ask about these issues and ask with an open mind and an open heart. I think that will do a lot towards just improving your own understanding and towards getting the change because of awareness and understanding needs to proceed change. And so starting there and then to deepening understanding. And then I think, you know, what will come from that is really understanding. You know, like I touched on a couple of things like bail and, you know, the drug laws in this country. But I think that change that needs to happen is political. I think the change that needs to happen is that we need to push our politicians to readdress some of these issues and kind of fix some of these issues. And the way that we do that individually is, you know, by voting, by encouraging others to vote and then, you know, by calling politicians and sending them letters and demanding change. And I think it may take some time, but that's the real answer, is that we need. We need to change the system.
Chris Byers: Well Ade, thank you for joining us today. I hope that everybody who's listening is really thinking about how can I be a part of a positive change? Be a part of raising my own awareness, starting conversations with people, thinking about the ways that I might have supported racism in the past and do today even and how can I break that and become anti-racist? And Ade, just I thank you for many things in life, but in particular today being just a help to us moving forward and opening up your story so that we could learn from it and kind of grow going forward.
Ade Olonoh: Thank you. It's great to chat about this. Great to talk with you, as always. So glad we're having this conversation.
Thanks for joining us today on Ripple Effect, what we heard today was a really powerful story, and it was the powerful story of a Black individual who, first of all, has been really important in my life. But I hope his story has become important in your life to really reframing what we think about in terms of racism and how it still persists today in this country. And I hope it causes you to want to take some action. If I can encourage you to take any action, it is really start a conversation or begin researching. Where can you find people or resources to help you take the next step? And how can we move forward this conversation on race and equality in the U.S.
Well, thanks for joining us today on this special episode of Ripple Effect. You can read Ade's full story at adeolonoh.com or follow him on LinkedIn.