text:
Wiktionary:Grease pit/2008/June
|Grease pit archives edit
June 2008Edit
Internet slangEdit
- This conversation is lifted from WT:BP#Internet slang. DAVilla
It would be nice to redesign the context labels to carry information such as formality and region. Yes,
{{internet slang}} could expand, as you say, but why shouldn't
{{context|internet|slang}} classify it under all three categories? DAVilla 06:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- Is that doable with template:context?—msh210℠ 19:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it is. I've just created a draft of
{{context class}}that could be used as
{{context class|{{{1}}}|{{{2}}}|...|sub=class name}}where class name could be region, formality, etc. If template such as
{{slang}}sets, in this example, formality=slang, then
{{context class|internet|slang|sub=formality}}returns Template:context class which could then be used by
{{internet}}for special categorization. I think I would let Robert decide how propogation should take place, since the context that determines the class (slang in this case) could come before or after the context label that does the categorization (internet in this case). It's possible to do in one direction, maybe both, without changing any of the context templates, but an extra parameter would be a cleaner design. I may also be generalizing the problem too much, but I think it's better than passing parameters like formality= and region= because if we then think of a new class to test for (like gender or something) then all of the context labels would have to be changed. Ideally by using
{{context class}}you would only have to set up a single template,
{{context gender}}, to redirect to
{{context class}}, and then the new class name could be checked for universally. DAVilla 02:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it is. I've just created a draft of
Template problemEdit
There is something wrong with
{{Icelandic formal personal pronouns}}. See it used at vor. It somehow causes the ---- and the L2 language header of the following Old High German to disappear from sight. —Stephen 20:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why that happened, but I've fixed it by removing the float: left; from the table's CSS. —RuakhTALK 23:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. :) —Stephen 00:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- For future reference, as a temporary fix, you can use
{{-}}after the template. See, e.g., [1].—msh210℠ 16:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
The accent template
{{a}} normally produces italic text in brackets, e.g. (Received Pronunciation).
For most uses this is exactly what is required, however where there are further qualifiers (for example at postulate) and it seems unnecessary to have the parentheses. So could a template wizard add an option to the template to accomplish this. Cheers Thryduulf 18:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- Do note that you can use:
* {{a|RP|noun}} ...
- and that it is designed to work that way. (barring someone discovering an obscure dialect called "noun" ;-)
- (Received Pronunciation, noun) ...
- (Received Pronunciation, verb) ...
- An alternative is to use ; Noun and then list the relevant things, then ; Verb and those; this kind of separation is more general. (Sort of what the badly formatted version before your edit was trying to do.) Robert Ullmann 19:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
IPA font too smallEdit
Recently (within the past few weeks), something has changed with the way my linux firefox displays IPA fonts. They now use a font that is about too points smaller than previously (and what my windows firefox uses) making some of the symbols difficult to read. The same font is used in the IPA edittools and in the display from the
{{IPA}} and
{{IPAchar}} templates, but not for IPA symbols used elsewhere.
Does anyone else have this problem? If so can it be fixed? If not, how can I fix the display at my end? Thryduulf 01:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't noticed this problem using Safari. --EncycloPetey 01:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- You can apply a custom style sheet in your browser, and change the formatting for the class, for example:
.IPA { font-size: larger; }
- I have the same problem, due to the fact that I don't have the fonts listed in MediaWiki:Common.css and it falls back to something silly, ugly and tiny - it annoys me just a tiny bit. Thrydulf: just add
.IPA { font-family: DejaVu Sans }to Special:Mypage/monobook.css. (If you just want to make that font larger, then use the code above instead of the code which uses DejaVu Sans). Conrad.Irwin 09:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- I have the same problem, due to the fact that I don't have the fonts listed in MediaWiki:Common.css and it falls back to something silly, ugly and tiny - it annoys me just a tiny bit. Thrydulf: just add
- Thanks. Thryduulf 10:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- A couple of days, several hard refreshes, a couple of browser restarts, a computer restart and a clearing of my cache later and what is in my monobook.css still isn't what I'm seeing. I do use the monobook skin. Does anyone have any ideas what is going wrong? Thryduulf 18:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- There's a dot at the start of the code.
.IPA { font-family: DejaVu Sans }. At the moment you have only
IPA { font-family: DejaVu Sans }. By the way I think we need to discuss this font issue further, I've seen other editors trying to fix it by putting Arial into their stylesheets, so it is clearly not right for a number of people. Conrad.Irwin 18:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
- There's a dot at the start of the code.
- It's still not working, nor is the right-floating TOC code doing anything (nor has it ever done anything now I think about it). Thryduulf 18:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Are you using the Monobook skin? It's the default one when you are not logged in - you can check in Special:Preferences. Conrad.Irwin 18:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)Whoops, you said above.
- Do any of the WT:PREFS work? Conrad.Irwin 18:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- I only use the option to display the UTC time, but that does work. Thryduulf 20:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks, that semi-colon removal has fixed it. Thryduulf 20:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
JavaScript handling changesEdit
It looks like improved support has been added at the MediaWiki level for importing scripts and stylesheets, along with an improved addOnloadHook function. The SVN changeset, applied two weeks ago, can be seen here: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=35064. It might be worth taking at look at the code we have here, although there are some differences between the wikibits.js version and what we have here in MediaWiki:Common.js. Mike Dillon 03:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know of any scripts using importStylesheet, and I notice that their importScriptURI is identical to our importExternalScript so we should probably deprecate that. The version of importScript they provide is missing a lot of the creeping featurism that we have in ours, so that'll have to stay. The changes to addOnloadHook were the result of a bug I filed which should make WT:PREFS work on the first page load for everybody (the race condition is removed). They also provide an appendCSS function which could be used by addCSSRule, although it doesn't even bother trying the CSS DOM and so it's probably nicer to leave it as it is. Conrad.Irwin 12:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Broken pagesEdit
Hi everyone, bugzilla:14406 documents a problem I'm having with Index:English/a (and a slightly different problem I'm having with Index:English/b). Just try adding {{Index:English/a/2}} to the page if you wish to replicate the issue. I'm a bit perplexed, as the length of the page is considerably less than our discussion rooms, for more details see the bug report. If anyone with communication skills would like to rewrite/comment on the bug I'd appreciate it. Conrad.Irwin 23:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
High time we subcategorize Category:Context labelsEdit
Category:Context labels currently contains some 800 labels. Given that these can be very different, it's time we categorize those. Here's my fairly simple proposal:
- Grammar context template are moved from this and Category:Grammar templates to a category of their own (simultaneously giving making the non-context tags easier to find).
- "empty" combining templates (e.g. "mostly") get a category.
- geographical templates (or "dialectal" so ) get one (more simply, do not liss stuff in both Category:Regional templates and Category:Context labels; make the former a child of the latter).
- Stylistic (slang, literary, etc.) templates get one.
- The topical tempates are split roughly between "sciences", "arts and humanities", "hobbies and crafts". Or whatever best split we can think of.
Circeus 00:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds like a good idea. to me. Here is a more detailed (but not comprehensive) version of the same proposal based on library cataloging and on what I know of our context tags:
- Category:Context qualifier tags
- Category:Usage context tags
- Category:Grammar context tags
- Category:Geography context tags
- Category:Topical context tags (with subcategories added as needed)
- Category:Humanities context tags
- Category:Natural sciences context tags
- Category:Sports context tags
- etc.
- The use of "tag" may be modified, but I prefer it to "label", which is more likely to generate a misspelling. --EncycloPetey 01:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- "context" qualifier tags, I assume, is intended to describe my "empty" category? While I was unsure about adding a "topical" level at first, it makes the issue of "thorny" placement easier. Circeus 01:36, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, by qualifier tags I mean "mostly", "only", etc. --EncycloPetey 01:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- "context" qualifier tags, I assume, is intended to describe my "empty" category? While I was unsure about adding a "topical" level at first, it makes the issue of "thorny" placement easier. Circeus 01:36, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- I created Category:Context qualifier tags but I could not recategorize any of the templates because the Context labels category is applied by Template:context- which I don't know how to edit. Unless we just want to keep everything in Context labels as well as more specific categories? Nadando 04:37, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- I like the way that (all but one of) the suggestions end in "context tags" because it's a little simpler if it's consistent. (The qualifier tags it might be possible to categorize automatically anyway. For the others) I've added a topic= paramter that will categorize under both "Topical" and the topic, and otherwise a type= parameter that will accept usage, grammar, etc. The parameter should go on the first line of the context template's code. For uniformity do not modify the second or third lines. All the labels are marked as "Uncategorized" at present. Although I left it as "label" for now, it could easily be changed to "tag". DAVilla 06:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- It does discriminate on namespace: in NS:0 it cats the entry, in Template (NS:14) it explicitly cats the template with sortkey " " at the top of the topic or region or POS (in the English cat). In any other namespace, it adds no cats. I don't really think the templates should appear in the content cats at all; but at the time I created the new version I was replicating the existing behavior. They probably should be removed from the content cats. Robert Ullmann 15:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Talking about that, is there any reasonable way to prevent stuff like
{{en-noun-note countable and uncountable senses}}from showing up in the context labels cat? Circeus 16:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Talking about that, is there any reasonable way to prevent stuff like
- It does discriminate on namespace: in NS:0 it cats the entry, in Template (NS:14) it explicitly cats the template with sortkey " " at the top of the topic or region or POS (in the English cat). In any other namespace, it adds no cats. I don't really think the templates should appear in the content cats at all; but at the time I created the new version I was replicating the existing behavior. They probably should be removed from the content cats. Robert Ullmann 15:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Re: "templates are already sorted topically": I've noticed, but I'm not a huge fan of continuing the practice. :-P —RuakhTALK 16:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- (Not sure where to indent this, or under what, but it's a response to RU's comment of 15:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC) and Ruakh's of 16:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC).) I think that the templates should be categorized in the "content" categories, listed first, as they have been, in order that a new editor, who doesn't know how to add an entry to a category (besides by hard-coding it), can, perhaps, learn how.—msh210℠ 19:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- I put the context template back. (DAVilla, for the Nth time, would you slow down and wait a week or two to find the best way of doing something; if it was a good idea it will still be a good idea. Otherwise it becomes crap for someone to spend a lot of time cleaning up.)
- As Ruakh points out, the Context labels cat is infrastructure, trying to sort it out as content is wrong, (horrendously wrong). There is no reason why a template can't be in more than one cat; there is no reason to "re-organize" the category.
- If you want additional cats for groups or whatever, put them in noinclude tags at the end of the desired context label templates. Adding a parameter for
{{context}}that it has no other use for is an extremely bad idea. Robert Ullmann 15:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Look, I'm not interested in coming up with ideas that are never implemented because they're put up and described and never discussed. If something were discussed and we were to come to a conclusion, that it wouldn't work or should be implemented another way, then fine, I'm all in favor of the process. But usually the process amounts to trying to explain a new idea that nobody can understand which therefore dies not from lack of fitness but from lack of discussion. That is, process kills ideas. I'm all for killing bad ideas, but not for weeding out the good ones as well. The point of categorizing through
{{context}}is simply to make sure that all templates are categorized, which was the purpose of Category:Uncategorized context labels, to locate those templates that are not subcategorized. Maybe Category:Context labels itself is good enough for that, and we don't need a duplicated master list. Fine, done. If topic= is not a good idea, fine, it's out. At first I'd only made a small change, describing topic as a possibility, then went back and decided some of my ideas would be pretty cool, which was dumb considering that you tend to roll back multiple changes wholesale without trying to understand them or considering the merits of any individually, for example this edit in which you rolled back a simplification that you then agreed to, and also hover text that just never got implemented "the best way of doing something" or any way at all, all on account of a single change, a reordering in presentation, commented as experimental in the first place, which I would gladly have undone if anyone came forward with objection. And then your newfound overconfidence rolls back changes like this one in which you're entirely wrong because translations tables should always have a gloss and simply titling it "Translations" isn't an appropriate default, but you win on arguments that it shouldn't be done just yet etc. etc. and I concede and then it just stays that way forever and the problem is never fully resolved. So, so what if I'm bold? You coming by and reverting me is not spening a lot of time cleaning up crap, it's completely ignoring the positive contributions that I've made. Great, you spent a lot of time rewriting
{{language}}, and now they're super efficient. Does that make the originals crap? You engineer the code and not the solution and because of that you don't think my contributions are worth paying attention to, but you're wrong about this one as well, about type= not having any other use. If it's a regional label then in the near future we would want to have categories for the intersection of region and formality, e.g. Category:US slang as just one example. And this was by no means tricky code. A parameter for topic was probably going too far, I admit I always go too far, but at least now everyone knows it can work, and how easy it is to do, and in fact how much more can be done that they hadn't even considered. The solution is not just a template that does this and that, it's a template that does and that maintains itself. If you remember how much people hated the error messages on new labels, organization was the principle of the design behind
{{cattag}}in the first place. So there's more than enough justification for why this approach is anything but as bad as you say it is. Duh, I do give some thought you know. What you don't like isn't that the deeper points haven't been discussed, it's that it's been done without explaining it all to you, and without your bessing and approval. So for the square root of Nth time, thank you for sharing your knowledge, thank you for your criticism, thank you for keeping me in check, go ahead and capture my queen which I pranced around far too early, but I'm still going to advance and one way or another develop the pieces of this wiki. DAVilla 09:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Look, I'm not interested in coming up with ideas that are never implemented because they're put up and described and never discussed. If something were discussed and we were to come to a conclusion, that it wouldn't work or should be implemented another way, then fine, I'm all in favor of the process. But usually the process amounts to trying to explain a new idea that nobody can understand which therefore dies not from lack of fitness but from lack of discussion. That is, process kills ideas. I'm all for killing bad ideas, but not for weeding out the good ones as well. The point of categorizing through
Sigh. Undoing the changes again. DAVilla: I rollback and undo things because they are broken.
Category:Context labels should, and does, contain all of them. Other categorization of context labels, tags, whatever is properly done in the templates themselves.
Frankly, you don't know enough to be doing this. Do you have any understanding that what you are adding to change cats on the templates causes processing overhead on every mainspace page? It is wrong. The categorization of templates belongs in the templates. (If anything, the Category:Context labels might be removed from
{{context}}, but it does seem useful.) You don't think through the conequences of a change, or take anytime whatever to ask what it might be. And someone else (which seems to be mostly me) has to clean it up. I've already spent a number of hours on this, and it looks to be taking a bunch more to get whatever we want done correctly. Robert Ullmann 12:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Also note that Circeus is finding it useful to put some templates in more than one category, which your code did not anticipate, as you didn't stop to think before mucking in with changes. Robert Ullmann 16:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, most of those are borderline cases (combinations of usage and something else, mostly regional templates) that could be easily dealt with one category should it be decided. The only "bad" thing it shows about DAVilla's edit is that it was not quite the most efficient choice implementation method (a {{#:switch}} would have been better and prevented incorrect categories). Circeus 00:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Nothing wrong with adding that later if it's needed. The more I anticipate the more complex the code. Anyways, at least a few of the dual cats should be rethought. It's unbelievable to me that we already know which ones those are. Thanks, Circeus. DAVilla 13:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Others should note this has caused repeated re-processing of every mainspace entry, with no resultant changes to the entry; and the changes would have caused permanent overhead on every instance of {context} on every mainspace entry, just to cat a few templates.
- We probably should do away with any categorization of templates by {context} entirely; they should not appear in the content categories, and should have the categories desired in the templates. Circeus has done a great deal of this. (DAVilla, do note I am not precipitously removing the template cat code; it is to be discussed, eh?) Robert Ullmann 16:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I went through Category:Grammar templates. Can an admin edit
{{transitive}} to replace the category? Now going to edit those of the geographical category. Circeus 15:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Nevermind that, I'll just add Category:Context labels to Category:Regional templates for the time being. I'm of the opinion a renaming should be considered, though. Circeus 15:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- As you note, we already had Category:Grammar templates, and Category:Regional templates, all that was needed was adding cats for qualifiers and perhaps topic classes in the same manner. Robert Ullmann 15:37, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- I felt a need to separate the grammatical context labels from other grammar tenmplates to make it easier to locate an appropriate non-label templates. When you have
{{imperative}}flaoting around and being completely different types of templates, it becomes very useful. Also helps noticing potential "missing" templates. Besides, Category:Gender and number templates are already separate, so I don't see why a much more distinct category can't be split off. AN example of a template better put in Category:Grammatical context labels cat than Category:Grammar templates is
{{of a person}}. If you can think of a better place, feel free. Circeus 16:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- I felt a need to separate the grammatical context labels from other grammar tenmplates to make it easier to locate an appropriate non-label templates. When you have
I notice we have a Category:Uncategorized context labels, which is actually an oxymoron since, by definition, all its contents are categorized. :P --EncycloPetey 16:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Semantics are relative. Of course "uncategorized" means "not placed in a context labels subcategory". It's just a temporary cache too. Circeus 16:53, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- If we removed the template cat code from {context} where it really does not belong, any template without categorization will show in the specials page, and we can find it in due course. Robert Ullmann 16:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Where we are now: User:Robert Ullmann/Context labels (do note that it doesn't reread or recheck templates that seem to be okay, see the "as of" date.
We could cat most of these by "magic", but we do not need a parameter to do it. The open question is whether we want to have overhead in every single NS:0 expansion to cat the tamplates more specifically? Seems better to put them where we want.
Yes, I realize I am irritating DAVilla once again, but this just isn't rocket science;
{{context}} already had what it needs to do this by magic if we are willing to take the overhead. Robert Ullmann 23:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- No, you're not irritating me by suggesting consistent positions. With subcategorization, if
{{context}}is going to categorize then it might as well subcategorize. If categorization is inappropriate through the template (which I don't agree with) then it might as well not categorize at all. Your suggestion I'd already known was possible with the qualifiers (since that was inherited from the previous design), and it's great that more may be possible. DAVilla 13:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
DAVilla, I apologize for all this. I have been exasperated because you do the same thing over and over: you don't slow down and think through all the consequences before plowing in to edit something important. In this case, your second round (type=) does not work correctly, on a template like
{{mostly}} if one used "type=qualifier" the template would also appear in the top category because the template recalls {context}. If you had thought it through before adding it, or tested it, you might have found this (and the simple fix). Again, I am sorry for all the invective; but please do slow down, take a few days, think about it, test it? Robert Ullmann 12:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
If we do want to have {context} auto-categorize the templates, most can be done without a parameter, the template already knows the "type", as it has the various cat= parameters. If the template uses topcat= it is a topical context label. (Ignoring for the moment the categories that are set up as topics incorrectly. ;-) There are a few other fine points, and at least one bug and another case that needed to be handled.
I set up a test at
{{context new}}.
It auto-categorizes into the subcats as Circeus suggested and set up. The subcat can be over-ridden with tcat=, for exaple to identify the grammatical labels (which often do not have cats). I also added cat= for an un-classed cat: for example
{{UK}} should be a regional label, but the cat is "UK", not "UK English" (which it probably should become ;-).
I changed a few templates to test {context new}:
{{East Africa}}, and
{{UK}}. The latter uses cat=UK and tcat=regional.
Have a look? The question is whether we want the overhead (not terrible) on all the mainspace pages, to get the label templates to cat. It does seem useful if done correctly.
We might also do something with "class" as discussed above (re internet slang), but I haven't had time to look at it having spent 2+ days sorting this. Robert Ullmann 12:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- If uniformity simplifies the code then I'm all for UK -> UK English. As for
{{context class}}that's clearly a lot trickier than something like type or even what you've been working on to solve template categorization, so put that aside. When you have time, though, I'm wondering how to do propogation, e.g. if one of the templates had a value (such as default language or whatever) defined then how could the others use this when ordered either before or after in the context labeling? Normally I would just do two passes, but with the way expressions expand here that would probably lead to O(n2). DAVilla 14:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that UK --> UK English will work, considering the way it's been used in the past. Since it is a geographical qualifier, it has been used like the name of a country, not like the name of a regional dialect. So, I seem to recall uses of mostly UK to indicate that a spelling is primarily found in the UK or that a sense is found there. The expanded form just sounds a bit awkward to me, as would an expanded US --> US English. I've also come across this template used (mistakenly) in the pronunciation section, where it should be
{{a|UK}}. Any switch would have to take that into account. I suggest we look at how the template appears in context on the pages where it is used before we make this change; any problems will then have to be found and edited by hand, unless a bot can find context for us. --EncycloPetey 14:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that UK --> UK English will work, considering the way it's been used in the past. Since it is a geographical qualifier, it has been used like the name of a country, not like the name of a regional dialect. So, I seem to recall uses of mostly UK to indicate that a spelling is primarily found in the UK or that a sense is found there. The expanded form just sounds a bit awkward to me, as would an expanded US --> US English. I've also come across this template used (mistakenly) in the pronunciation section, where it should be
- We don't need to address "UK English" and "US English" now, although that would be more consistent with (e.g.) East African English, etc. What
{{context new}}fixes is the problem where
{{UK}}used to have to use topcat=UK and that leads to
{{context|UK|lang=hi}}generating cat "hi:UK" instead of UK. If we do make the cat "UK English" later, then we can use regcat= and properly generate the cat "UK Hindi". And yes, we'd have to have some code hunt through an XML dump for other uses of {UK}, fixing the ones that should be {a|UK} and tagging others not used as definition context. Robert Ullmann 13:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- We don't need to address "UK English" and "US English" now, although that would be more consistent with (e.g.) East African English, etc. What
Subcategorization of Category:Topical context labelsEdit
First: WOuld someone please add categories to
{{obsolete}} and
{{rare}} please? Leaving the technical aspects of main label categories to the above discussion, should this category be re-divided? If so, should it use double categorization in topical and sub-topical cats? (I personally don't see an issue with things being put in Category:Topical context labels by
{{context}} and manually in subcategories)
Roughly we have the following unlumped categories:
- hard sciences (cf. physical sciences, maths, physics, informatics, biology)
- humanities (inc. philosophy & religion?)
- professions (e.g.
- arts & crafts
- hobbies
- sports & games
With the science categories candidate for splitting, but bugger me if I can figure how to name these categories, as well as quite a few oddball stuff that are not strictly speaking context labels, but that is for another discussion (I'll say I call those "definitional" or "categorizing" labels, e.g.
{{insect}} and
The naming issue shows up mostly in how to split and name the last three or four categories. I'm not doing another categorization run right now (let me breath :p), so ideas are very welcome. Circeus 16:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- A template like
{{insect}}should not exist. We went through this discussion before over the template (time). Definitional templates are incorrect, as any information they provide whould be in the definition only. Circeus, I don't see that any of the categories you've named above need to be subdivided. Some will be larger catgeories, but that's OK. I would go only with the list above, and worry about any splitting once we've recategorized and considered what is missing from the resulting lists. --EncycloPetey 19:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- There are _some_ cases where a template also serves for disambiguation in a foreign articles, but that's still incorrect. These templates (some of which I listed at category talk:Context labels) ended up primarily created to provide categorization (some times they are used almost only in one foreign language, such as
{{mushroom}}on Finnish page). I intended to start a separate discussion on the topic of what context labels where about once I could collect a proper list, so if we could keep this to the Topical context labels cat, I'd appreciate. Circeus 20:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- There are _some_ cases where a template also serves for disambiguation in a foreign articles, but that's still incorrect. These templates (some of which I listed at category talk:Context labels) ended up primarily created to provide categorization (some times they are used almost only in one foreign language, such as
- I think that for the sake of consistency, the subcategorization should follow some established scheme or w:controlled vocabulary like the w:Library of Congress Subject Headings. I don't think it much matters which is chosen, and it should only be carried to one or two levels, but why reinvent the wheel, when really smart professionals have already put so much work into it? —Michael Z. 2008-06-10 04:33 z
- A context template is not the same as a gloss. Foreign language entries needing disambiguation should use a gloss, if an existing context tag is not available. Glosses should follow the translation/definition, not precede it as a context label does. --EncycloPetey 21:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- Templates like
{{insect}}certainly should exist. But it should display (e.g.) (entomology) whilst categorising in Insects. Cf.
{{star}}which is set up properly now, catting in Stars, a sub-cat of Astronomy, and displaying (astronomy). Robert Ullmann 12:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Templates like
Lost watchlistEdit
In the course of editing my raw watchlist, I lost it. Is it readily recoverable? DCDuring TALK 02:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Um, no. If you use the Python wikipedia bot framework, then you have a local copy ... but I don't know what it would take to re-load it. It is in the non-public dump, (as of 25 May), but would take serious developer work to extract and re-load. Sorry, not a good answer. Robert Ullmann 12:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. I was afraid that was the answer. I suppose, I should have made a manual backup. But there was a lot of dreck in mine anyway and the long list was hard to maintain. I would love to set default expiration dates for watch items and have some kind of default that kept me from cluttering it up with non-lemmas, entries where my edit was minor, but kept all of my new entries, lemma or not. I don't usually remember to deselect "watch this page". If this were something fairly straightforward and entertaining for a developer to do, I'd appreciate it. If there were some way to use "my contributions" to create or refresh a watchlist, that would work. I don't know whether there are very many others who share any of these wishes. Any suggestions are welcome. DCDuring TALK 14:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Why do you need to deselect "watch this page" - mine is always deselected, and I have about a dozen items in my watchlist i.e. just the ones that I am particularly interested in. SemperBlotto 14:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- What Mike said. I like to keep track of what I'd worked on to check for response to changes, esp for RfV/RfD items. I've found that there are classes that are of low subsequent interest and that the volume of changes drops of dramatically after just one week, two if there is a holiday weekend. Obviously styles differ. Over time I have learned what is likely to generate adverse changes so perhaps my default should change. DCDuring TALK 15:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- I have (and like having) thousands of pages on my watchlist (4,497 as I write). What I'd like is to be able to filter out bots except AutoFormat. Thryduulf 22:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- There is an option to filter out all bots, in Special:Preferences iirc. Thryduulf 23:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- You're quite right (thanks! I was unaware of that), but it doesn't seem to work properly: it seems to pull the last changes to watched pages and then filter out bot edits, rather than to pull the last non-bot changes to watched pages. The real reason I want to filter out bot edits isn't that they're hard to skim (for me they're not, as I don't watchlist that many entries — right now only 537, and every so often I clear 'em all out), but that they frequently follow on the heels of human edits that I do want to see. Ah, well, I guess can't have everything. :-( —RuakhTALK 23:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, that's how it works. It irritates me on the 'pedia, where displaying the watchlist shows almost entirely reverts of vandalism, with no indication of whether they were preceded by substantive changes that I want to see. In this case, bot entries will suppress previous edits, and doesn't play well with AF editing something because someone else has and it finds something that needs fixing. For a long while AF wasn't bot flagged, and this worked a bit differently: you'd see the AF edit, but still not the precipitating edit. (A similar thing happens with iwiki bot edits working from new pages.) Would be very hard to fix in the WM s/w. (Well, not that hard; but would then be a much more complex and expensive database operation.) Robert Ullmann 12:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- In the Watchlist tab of Special:Preferences there is an option to "Expand watchlist to show all applicable changes". This does what I think you are wanting in that it shows all changes to watched articles rather than just the most recent. Sort of like a recent changes for watched articles only. Thryduulf 20:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
WT:PREF as a tab in Special:PreferencesEdit
Recently I saw that in meta:Special:Preferences, there is an extra tab 'Extensions' with specific functions for Meta, much like our WT:PREF. Wouldn't it be possible to include that in our Special:Preferences as well? H. (talk) 10:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh Frabjous Day!Edit
- 1871, Lewis Carrol, Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There
- "And has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.
- "And has thou slain the Jabberwock?
New XML dump ... Robert Ullmann 23:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- The last XML dump is four weeks ago. I noted that the June 24 dump of enWikt aborted. Because many others also aborted, I assume that it is not content-related. OTOH, if it is, can we do something to make it more likely the dumps will not abort? Is there an ETA for another effort to get one. There are so many good lists generated from the dumps that surface all kinds of irregularities and improvement opportunities. Perhaps we have to recognize the dump problem and manually update the lists that are dump-dependent so that they are more useful for identifying remaining problems. DCDuring TALK 00:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Various people have been poking Brion; his last note said (approximately) "yup, it's stuck" it has to do with allocation of disk and other hardware apparently. There are parts of things I have cached locally on my laptop as code runs (like Tbot), but nothing generally. Robert Ullmann 10:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- I noted that the 7/24 dump aborted. It will be two months by the time of the next dump. All the messages that suggest we don't need to manually update cleanup lists will need to be changed if we can't count on dumps. It is a little hard to understand why the same problem recurs for apparently the same set of dumps every two weeks. DCDuring TALK 11:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- It is a fundamental queuing problem, as I have pointed out over and over again, to little avail. Right now for example, there are four threads running. (see status) they are all doing monstrous tasks; en.wp takes weeks.
- It is like going into the bank where there is one queue for four tellers, and transactions take either 30 seconds or 10-15 minutes (common at my bank ;-). If there are 50 people in line, you are fine, but if there are 4+ people ahead of you with long transactions, you're screwed. We need to have a fast lane. (my bank uses a deposit-only window, and a window only for deposits/withdrawals in 500s and 1000s notes) I've suggested this: one thread should do only non-pedia or not language in [en, fr, de, ja, zh, (couple more)]. Or two threads with size limits.
- They need more fileservers apparently to keep it from failing. So it goes along for a while (days/weeks) we get close to the top, then gets stuck, is restarted, and the order of the queue reset or randomized, and we are half-way down again. This should also be fixed. Brion is just too busy, so we get to just be frustrated and throw things ... Robert Ullmann 12:34, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
- Can we get in league with the others that seem to be getting screwed on the same schedule as us? Are there "paying" customers ahead of us in the queue? Is there any thought about not letting the dumps get too far behind. (Ours will be 8 weeks.) There seem to be many that get their dumps every two weeks. Would it not be possible to give some priority to those who have the oldest previous successful dump? Things are getting so bad, we're going to have to start improving our Help just to keep busy. DCDuring TALK 13:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Uploading audioEdit
I've seen talks about a bot that uploads audio in batch mode. Is it still operational? Can it be used for FL audio? Which part is automated: uploading to Common or adding uploaded audio files to a Wiktionary entry? Thanks. --Panda10 21:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- DerbethBot will automatically add audio to entries and there is a piece of software called google:commonist that will upload batches of files. If you haven't recorded the files yet, you might want to look at the software that google:shtooka use (if you use IRC and you're lucky enough that he is online, then zMoo can explain everything about how that works). User:Dvortybot is also something audio related, but as far as I'm aware it is far less active than Derbeth's. Conrad.Irwin 15:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC) (fixed links 09:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC))
- I've been using Shtooka for a while now, but I was not familiar with the other tools. Wrote a message to Derbeth. Thanks. --Panda10 19:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Something is wrong with the optional language parameter for
{{rhymes|nl|ek}} now creates Rhymes: -nl, -ek, that is with :nl: in the link, that should be :Dutch:. I had a try, but that didnt work out, can someone else fix this?
Probably a nice time to introduce lang= in there, and get rid of the {{#if|{{{2}}}|, which is ugly. You'd have to review all non-English usages of the template, then, I'm afraid. H. (talk) 15:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- It might be possible to reduce the number of manual reviews needed if a bot could detect uses of the
{{rhymes}}template in non-English POS sections, and replace any instances of the iso code for that language as the first parameter with a lang= as the final parameter. Any instances of
{{rhymes}}in non-English POS sections with only a single parameter could have lang= added as a second parameter. Actually the second of these would be a useful addition to AF's duties. Thryduulf 16:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Oh dear, someone added the language (code) as an optional parameter before the suffix? Urk. Yes, we should have lang= instead. I'll look at hunting them a bit later tonight (e.g. after the Euro 2008 matches at 18:45 UTC ;-) if I can. We have a recent XML dump, so I can search it. Adding lang= to {rhymes} (and {IPA}) in non-English sections might indeed be a useful task for AF. Robert Ullmann 17:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Taken in isolation there is logic to having the language first in the rhymes template, as the output is Rhymes:language:suffix (e.g.
{{rhymes|fr|ɔ̃}}→ Rhymes:French:-ɔ̃). In the context of standardisation with other templates, it makes no sense at all though!
- If you are adding lang= to
{{IPA}}you should probably also do it to
{{SAMPA}}, even though only a few languages are defined with the latter). Thryduulf 21:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
- Taken in isolation there is logic to having the language first in the rhymes template, as the output is Rhymes:language:suffix (e.g.
- See User:Conrad.Irwin/foreign rhymes, generated from the latest dump. There's not that many of them - so maybe I'm missing a trick. Conrad.Irwin 09:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd usually wait and think about this a bit more, but since the template is borked already, I've fixed it. Initially to accept either lc|suffix or suffix|lang=lc; and allow language name or code. (E.g. use
{{langname}}). I added Category:Rhymes template with 2 parameters if so; it doesn't have to exist to look at it. Robert Ullmann 14:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- I've fixed the ones on my user subpage. This might be a good thread to think about the idea of using Categories to implement the rhymes pages (as proposed on WT:BP). The template would accept the rhyme and the number of syllables in the word, and thus generate a list under each number for each rhyme. Any thoughts? Conrad.Irwin 14:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, we'll see if anything else turns up. Cats would seem better. Is the number of syllables that important? (It may be, I have no particular opinion.) Using Category:Dutch rhymes -o etc would be good; the category can always have text like the existing Rhymes: page; it could be hidden and just linked from the template as now? If so, we would be very close to what we are doing now. Robert Ullmann 14:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikisaurus requests:Edit
- It would be nice to have a bot that checked to see that entries made in wikisaurus pages had entries in the wiktionary. If they did not and no other source was cited, an error report would be generated. This would give us a starting point for clean-up of pages without actually altering anything.
- Now I know we're nowhere near close enough to a usable wikisaurus to do this, but I didn't want it put off til the last minute. I'd forget, sure as shootin' This would give you a heads up on it and give us time to argue through the reasonableness of the bot as well as whether or not we want to have bots in WS or if they're going to be handled separately or any of a hundred other things that are sure to come up.
- I've got an objection/exception right off the bat myself. How can we possibly know if another source is cited? Amina (sack36) 06:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- Most useful would be a bot that checked the list of synonyms and antonyms on a page against head words that have already been made. If they aren't there or on the "to be made" page, the bot would add them to the "to be made" page.
- This bot would be needed sooner. There are tons of words already on the request list as well as on the cleanup list so there's no hurry here, either. But I'm on my way with the grunt-work. It'll get gone, don't you worry! Amina (sack36) 08:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not really sure what you're getting at, but it sounds like (in the first request) you want to generate a list of the pages in Wikisaurus that contain words that don't have dictionary entries? That should be reasonably easy to do. The second request, you want a bot to add synonyms and antonyms from the main entries to the Wikisaurus page? This will take some more thought, as we need to decide (or you need to just tell us) exactly how the bot will format these entries. Conrad.Irwin 09:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- You're exactly right on the first one. The second one is fairly similar to the first. It will troll wikisaurus entries looking for words that haven't been made into headwords. Then check the list of words that are waiting to become headwords. If the word is on the pending list or a headword, the bot does nothing. If the word is not on the pending list but is a headword the bot does nothing. If the word is not a headword and not on the list the bot adds it to the pending list. If the word is on both the pending and is a headword, it removes it from pending. Is that clearer? Amina (sack36) 15:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Page DeletesEdit
There are some Wikisaurus pages that are both incorrect and types it was agreed we would leave until later. Can some of them be deleted or routed somehow so they don't get referenced until they can be cleaned up? Amina (sack36) 07:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- If you want them deleted just replace the page with
{{delete}}. If you want the content later on though, just leave them. They'll do no more harm in the interim than they're doing at the moment. Conrad.Irwin 23:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
What does {{{2| }}} do? It's not a template is it?22.214.171.124 03:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- No, but that syntax is often used in writing templates. It means, "use argument #2, else..." --EncycloPetey 03:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Indic shaping & fontsEdit
I just noticed that applying the
{{Gujr}} (Gujarati) script template broke shaping for me so I did a quick fix by adding Shruti and Code2000 before the
{{unicode fonts}}. Should this actually be in Common.css though?
{{Deva}} also applies the same list of unicode fonts and although I haven't seen it breaking shaping behaviour, that list might not be optimal.
I noticed the Gujarati problem when using the
{{t}} template - is there any reason that template doesn't set lang/xml:lang attributes?
☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 09:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes it should be in common.css for IE6, however we shouldn't specify the font for other browsers because (as you notice) some fonts break for some people. I'll fix it. Conrad.Irwin 23:14, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Not sure about the lang= attribute, seems like a sensible thing to do though. Conrad.Irwin 23:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I've been trying to clean up the Javascript at the Irish Wiktionary and noticed that the Wiktionary code for these is different to the Wikipedia code. It seems to do the same thing but in a different way. Anyone care to enlighten me about the benefits of doing it the Wiktionary way? My talk here or at Vicífhoclóir if you don't want to clog the GP. ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 09:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I don't see a lot of difference in the basic code. Note that the second section of the Wiktionary code comes first on Wikipedia, which makes them look more disparate than they really are. Other than that, there are two differences I see:
- Wiktionary uses a visual icon to indicate show/hide rather than text. This resulted from extensive discussion over two concerns: (a) that many of our users don't read/speak English very well, and (b) that even native speakers weren't realizing that the nav boxes were expandable. Using the up/down triangles makes a bigger visual impact for new users.
- Wikipedia includes additional code to handle cases where one navigation box occurs following another navigation box. If just one box appears, then the box is displayed in expanded form. If two or more boxes follow each other, they will be displayed initially as collapsed. We've never wanted to do that on Wiktionary, so we don't have code to handle that situation.
- --EncycloPetey 19:54, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- As you say, they are very similar, even to the point that some of the comments are still identical on both sites. The Wiktionary NavFrame code is in a right mess (it was copied from Wikipedia in ~2006 and hasn't been touched since) and really needs cleaning up. I had a go at User:Conrad.Irwin/navframes.js, but will have a better go at some point. On second thoughts, are you talking about the difference between Collabsible tables and NavFrames, if so then collapsible tables, use table headers for toggles and table rows for content, while the NavFrames use divs for both. NavFrames are more flexible, though collapsible tables are more accessible (if used correctly). Conrad.Irwin 23:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I went to this page and checked the necessary checkboxes to start using it. It seems I can't. It slows down my browser (IE 5.04) rendering it useless. I'd like to uncheck the main checkbox but I can't see them any more. I see only the welcome text and nothing under the horizontal line. A script is running after every click and stops all action for several seconds, then a pop-up reminds me that a script is slowing down the browser. So how do I uncheck the preferences? I cleared the cookies, did not help. --Panda10 19:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- You might be able to get a later version of IE for free. Though we need for admins to keep using IE because so many users do, you would probably find Mozilla Firefox better. It works better than IE7 did for me. DCDuring TALK 19:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Mozilla Firefox is free. DCDuring TALK 19:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- But in the meantime, we probably should put a warning on WT:PREFS about slowing down IE users. Some folks who use IE do so because they're using a computer that isn't their own and don't have a chhoice about installing a newer version of IE. I've been in that situation many times before, especially when logging on through a school or library computer. --EncycloPetey 19:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Panda10, you may be able to fix the problem by deleting your personal /custom.js. This will delete your preferences file. BUT, please wait for someone who knows more about the technical aspects to verify this, as I am not sure of all the possible ramifications of deleting that file. --EncycloPetey 19:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I installed Firefox and checked WT:PREFS using that - nothing is checked, all checkboxes are unchecked, including the main one. I don't have a custom.js. IE works in other websites, but not in Wiktionary. It still has the 30-second wait after every click and the pop-up reminder. --Panda10 20:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Eek! that's bad, can you remember which PREFS you clicked? You can clear your preferences by clearing your cookies (Internet Explore -> Tools menu -> Internet Options -> General tab -> Delete cookies) - though this will have the annoying side effect of logging you out of all internet sites you are logged into. Conrad.Irwin 23:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I cleared the cookies immediately after this started happening, it did not help unfortunately. I think I checked the main checkbox, the IRC, and the TOC. But if I look at my prefs via Firefox, nothing is checked. So I'm not sure what script is running every time I click anything in Wiktionary, but not on other internet sites. --Panda10 23:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, PREFS are stored in cookies, and none of the javascript is loaded if the cookies aren't set, so you may have visited the PREFS page since you cleared them. (The problem does seem to be with WT:PREFS, though I've not worked out exactly what, clearing cookies fixed it for me) Conrad.Irwin 00:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
- I cleared the cookies again and everything that can be cleared on that IE page, temp files, stored passwords,etc. This solved it. Deleting cookies alone was not enough. Ok, I am all set. Thanks. --Panda10 00:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
- Let this be a lesson to you about using MS products. [2] --EncycloPetey 01:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Wait, what script am I writing in?Edit
Seeing as we've been standardizing our script templates as of late (i.e. to the ISO 15924), I was wondering if
{{polytonic}} should still be used, or if we should simply use
{{Grek}} for both grc and el. Ultimately, I am far too naive on the matter to have an opinion one way or the other. I just wanted to get the opinion of my betters. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:16, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
- The difference is the use of font "DejaVu Sans" in preference (see Mediawiki:common.css), apparently this is needed for Ancient Greek, but not wanted for Greek. See Rod's notes at
{{polytonic}}. But as with all these things, they can be usefully revisited as the browsers evolve. Robert Ullmann 15:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Recent changesEdit
On my screen setup the prefix information of "Recent changes" now takes up the entire screen and I have to scroll down to see any action. "Utilities", "Welcome" and "Wanted" each take two lines (each by just a word or two) and the new box around the "Recent changes" options fills the rest. Can anything be done to clean it up? SemperBlotto 07:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks to Conrad.Irwin I can now see the latest one and a half changes! SemperBlotto 11:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- The "GO" button really ought to be on the same line, doesn't need a line by itself Robert Ullmann 11:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC) (they explicitly use a table to use another line, go figure ...) Robert Ullmann 12:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- Add to your monobook.css:
fieldset.rcoptions { font-size: 80%; }
- and it will be smaller. You can even use display:none; to make it go away; but then you have to have your own nav bookmark or whatever as desired. Robert Ullmann 12:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Btw: has anyone else noticed that clicking on "50" (or explicitly putting &limit=50 in the URL) gets you the number of changes specified as your default in preferences, not 50? Or is it just me? If anyone else sees it, I will trouble myself with bugzilla ... Robert Ullmann 11:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- Bug confirmed. I tried asking in #mediawiki about moving the "Go" button, but they said moving it breaks some extensions... so we're stuck with it at the moment. Conrad.Irwin 12:03, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- thanks Robert Ullmann 12:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- bug 14659 Robert Ullmann 00:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
SB: if you put the following in monobook.css, you'll probably be fairly happy :-)
fieldset.rcoptions { font-size: 90%; margin: none; padding: none; border: 0px; } fieldset.rcoptions legend { display:none; } fieldset.rcoptions table { display:none; }
(unless you use the NS selection) Varying the font-size as you please. Robert Ullmann 14:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
If you want to lose the horizontal rule as well, also use:
fieldset.rcoptions hr { display:none; }
Robert Ullmann 15:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
- I do not possess (and never will possess) a monobook.css - I like my Wiktionary to look like that of our users. However, I have poor eyesight and have View => Textsize set to "larger" - so I am not about to reduce font sizes! SemperBlotto 07:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
- I agree, I do the same; not using monobook.css or WT:PREFS except for experimenting. However, RC is an infrastructure page, not a content page, so I'm not worried about it in this case; I'll probably keep the .rcoptions class changes. Robert Ullmann 16:19, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
FYI: the RC fieldset code has been removed (rev 36523, 21 June) it will go away when the running MW s/w is updated. Robert Ullmann 13:27, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Newbie question about inflectionsEdit
Over in the Russian-to-English section of en.wiktionary the veterans are saying that every inflected form needs its own entry, and that we eventually hope to get virtually every Russian word that is in print (or used in speech) into en.wiktionary.
Great, but there are something like 120,000 to 150,000 lemmas in Russian with an average of about 15 parts of speech each. This implies two million entries. In one sense this is an overstatement; for example with (gramatically) feminine nouns the singular prepositional and dative case inflections are usually homonyms. Nevertheless this needs disambiguation, so the workload probably isn't reduced.
If it takes a human ten minutes to set up a minimal entry for an inflected form, the total workload computes to 167 man-years (in addition to the workload of creating lemma entries).
However lemma workups have inflection tables. If the table templates have metadata describing the contents, it seems to me that preparation of entries for inflected forms can be automated, saving that huge amount of scutwork.
If I'm reinventing the wheel here, can someone please direct me to that discussion? LADave 09:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- In fact, we often do use bots for that. For example, thousands of Spanish and French verb forms have been added by bots. You just have to learn how to make a bot and get permission to run it. —Stephen 16:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Getting the length of a parameter in templatesEdit
Is there are way to get the length of a parameter in a template? I am updating the Hungarian noun declension templates and would need to know when the last latter is a double-letter (still one sound) such as cs since in some cases the last latter is doubled but not fully, only the first character (ccs). I am trying to avoid adding yet another parameter with this. Thanks. --Panda10 20:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think that this is possible with our software- see Template:es-conj-ar (u-ú)- the input can't be broken up, it has to be entered as 2 separate inputs. Nadando 20:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- Should be possible with StringFunctions, which we don't have (yet). There are lots of other good things we'd be able to do with StringFunctions, too.—msh210℠ 20:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
- Tim Starling has stated that he will not install StringFunctions as it is very poorly designed; I concur. It also has the problem that it will result in a lot more people using #if and #switch on the results, with no understanding that all branches of conditionals are fully evaluated. Thus a huge amount of additional parsing overhead. It would be good to design something better. Robert Ullmann 14:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


text:
Perhaps if you are reading this you are considering uprooting your life and taking a working holiday visa in another country. Kudos – it's an exciting decision, but of course with anything new there are difficulties as well. This blog is going to see a traveler with experience having done this – four times actually – give a little bit of advice how to make the transition as easy as possible.
If it's your first time going to live abroad and you have some money saved there is no panic once you arrive. A lot of travelers actually take a look around first in the country they have chosen in order to see where they might like to lay down a more permanent base of operations. Fast forwarding, we'll pretend that you have made that choice of city and you want to move from being on the fringes of said city right into its beating heart! Okay, I'm being dramatic, maybe just feeling a little more connected to it while suffice.
First things first, you need to find a place to live. Personally, I would suggest a hostel – at least at first. Find one that offers long term rates so you can get a discount by the week. You may be asking why choose a hostel? This is why – if you move to a new place you won't know anyone, so the hostel will let you meet liked minded people in a similar situation. Also, it will be a great way to eventually choose the people that you would like to move into a shared apartment with rather just tempting fate with strangers.
The next step after you have yourself in a hostel is to find a job. Now depending on your previous work experience I have noticed three main ways to do this. First, start hitting the bars and restaurants in the area. If you are in a country that speaks English and you have an accent it will give you an edge being chosen to be a server or bartender. Second, hit the temporary agencies and start looking for office temp work. Thirdly, if you have construction experience ask around in the hostel who else is on a building site and ask for a trial. Ply all three of these tactics at once if need be and something should materialize.
Now with your job found, you can begin to consider that next step living wise to relocate to an apartment. Or perhaps, you'll just work for a little while and do the same thing you've just done here in another city. That's the joy of traveling, you are the boss and you do what you want. Bask in this freedom… and enjoy!

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Hope you had a great weekend. I wanted to share with you a card I made for the latest CAS(E) this Sketch Challenge #14. I was at AC Moore the other day and found this cute bunny and carrot stamp in the dollar bin. Isn't it cute?
Thanks for stopping by,


text:
This is hilarious: The 'Backing Blair' website. I like the look of 'operation Henman'. C'mon Tony!
The introduction is like something from a seventies sitcom, very catchy.
I wonder how long before Boris links to this from his blog, his latest article was about Prescott and, amusingly, Liverpool.
In other news today, Charles and Camilla.... I do hope this doesn't saturate the television and radio for the next few months. There is much more important stuff going on in the world, and this is one issue about which I can't bring myself to care. Having said that, I may decide to go along on the day just for the hell of it. There has to be some sort of insignia which can be worn which says 'Here for the show, not the royalty'.


text:
Kitchen Fittings
Hanging chairs can be used to create the ultimate outdoor living space. Whether you want to transform your garden into a luxurious haven, or you're looking for the perfect statement piece to complement a contemporary outdoor lounge area, browse House of Home's wide range of stylish and comfortable hanging chairs online or in store today.
Imagine sinking back into the most comfortable chair, with the sun on your face and a gentle breeze in your hair, as you sip your favourite drink. Outdoor hanging chairs can take you to your very own private paradise island where you can forget the rest of the world exists, and you only have to travel as far as your garden to get there. Enjoy the gentle swaying and swinging motion as you lounge with a good book, or close your eyes and pretend you're on holiday. What could be better?
No matter what sort of style you're looking to achieve, there will be a hanging chair to suit your outdoor entertainment area at House of Home. Gather your dinner party guests on your luxury outdoor chairs for after dinner drinks around the chiminea, and play host from your stylish hanging chair. Or use it to complement the comfortable outdoor lounge area that your family use when they come to visit.
Maybe you want to update your outdoor space and create a more contemporary look. Outdoor hanging chairs make the perfect statement piece, and can revitalise tired outdoor areas. Take a look at these four simple tips for more ideas on how to transform your outdoor space.
What sort of hanging chair do you want to complement your outdoor furniture? Something that can be hooked on the wall in an area of your choice and easily relocated? A hammock-style chair that will make you feel like you're on the beach? A large wooden chair that can seat multiple people? Whatever hanging chair you're looking for to create the perfect outdoor space, you are guaranteed to find it at House of Home.


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Here is a list of the fabulous discounts and special offers that members have in their shops from Black Friday thru Cyber Monday! See individual shops for more details.
bonny beads
25% off everything Black Friday-Cyber Monday: Prices have been changed to reflect the discount. All items are shipped via U.S. Priority Mail for all shoppers!
Free Gift with every purchase made from 12:01am Friday, November 27, 2009 through 11:59p Monday, November 30, 2009 CST :)
Cut Out and Collect
Free worldwide shipping through Monday, November 30!
Eve M Metalsmith
Free priority shipping with confirmation anywhere for this holiday season, from November 25th-December 19th!
Free gift wrap and shipping!
Tefi Designs
Free pair of earrings for purchases over $50 through the end of the year! The $50 total does not include S/H and tax for Texas residents.
Sanctum Design Studio
Holiday Clearance: Every card is only $1. Sets are $1 per card. So an 8 pack is $8 and so on. Take advantage while you can - Sale begins 11/27 and ends 11/30/09
Signature Scentsations
3 bars for $15.00 special on all bar soaps!
ALL merchandise in the shop is 15% off! Sale prices are already marked down. (11/27-11/30)
The Pig and the Peacock
15% off your order! Discount taken off total (before shipping) and will be refunded through paypal. (11/27-11/30)
design roots
All posters are 50% off and all holiday items have free shipping from now through the end of the year!
All 8.5" x 11" prints are 2 for $30 from November 27-December 15. Let me know if you'd like to buy 2 prints and I will set up a custom listing for you with the correct pricing. $5 from each sale will go to Water is Basic.
Thanks for giving handmade this holiday!


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We round up some of the press reviews from last week's concert with Semyon Bychkov…Read More
On 20 February, we performed with Katia and Marielle Labèque in a programme featuring Saint-Saëns, Ravel, Debussy and Ibert. We've heard your thoughts so now it's time to look at what the press had to say…Read More
We opened our 2013-2014 Southbank Centre season with conductor William Christie and soprano Sandrine Piau (pictured) back on 30 September. Here's what you and the papers had to say…Read More
A couple of a reviews from our concert at the Edinburgh International Festival a couple of weeks ago:
"Vladimir Jurowski is having a devilish summer. Last month he was steaming through Liszt's Faust Symphony with the London Philharmonic at the Proms, but here he was in Edinburgh to embark on the same sulphurous journey with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, of which he is a Principal Artist.
It's a considerable challenge for a period orchestra to tackle the span and intensity of Liszt's most grandiose philosophical statement. But the OAE stared down the demons — sometimes literally — with verve" The Times
Full article (subscribers only)
"All in all, it was for me the most satisfying Usher Hall concert of this festival so far. They took a rarely performed work and made me wonder why; they took a frequently performed work and made it feel freshly minted. This was an evening filled with passion, drama and energy, one that frequently had me on the edge of my seat. " Where's Runnicles Blog
Full ArticleRead More
Last week we made our annual appearance at the BBC Proms, as part of the Glyndebourne Prom, a semi-staged performance of Handel's Rinaldo. Here's what the reviewers and bloggers made of it:
Music OMH
Classical Source
The Times (subscribers only)
Seen and Heard
There are some pictures from the Prom on the Proms Facebook Page here.Read More


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Shabby Chic Bridesmaid Chipboard Gift Tags Set of 6 – Vintage Wedding – Country Wedding – Farmhouse -Shabby Chic Wedding. $24.00, via Etsy. is creative inspiration for us.
Get more photo about DIY home decor related with by looking at photos gallery at the bottom of this page.
We are want to say thanks if you like to share this post to another people via your facebook, pinterest, google plus or twitter account.
Right Click to save picture or tap and hold for seven second if you are using iphone or ipad.
Full size is 640X460 (Link to full-size image) pixels.
Source: etsy.com


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Is That a Fat Joke?
I am a fat guy; There I said it. It becomes ever more comfortable as the years go by. Personally I think Iam more Bull than Hippo. Although, because Iam a fella who weighed in at 116 lbs on his first drivers license I reminded daily; both by myself and others that my current habitus is not what Mother nature intends.
Skinny People, if not overtly, tend to promote themselves to the level of all knowing when it comes to feeling pity for us poor fat people. Fortunately for us fat people, we are at no loss when it comes to trying to figure out how we got to this sad and lowly state. Fat people need not bother with reading magazines about weight loss, or scientific journals. We don't need an instructor or Jenny Craig, nor dietitian or genetics councilor. Simply ask your "friendly" neighborhood skinny person what ever you could do to loose some weight and you will be blasted with a smorgasboard of premediatated pontification; that has lay dormant for so long awaiting your request.
Near daily Iam approached with new fangled diets or a new exercise regimen offered by skinny people as a token of charity. Do I look so miserable I ask myself. I must look like the little old lady on the side of the road with a flat tire. Something about us fat people must scream out Help me Help me. maybe people believe in the BMI Body Mass Index. A system developed by an Insurance company to place Fat people into categories. The Higher your BMI the less they have to insure you. Consequently Higher BMI's have been associated with disease states. rubbish.
On behalf of fat people everywhere; Don't call us, We'll call you. Don't you skinny people realize that if we weren't fat, where would you be?? Your welcome (in advance).


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Personal Chef Service
Photo Gallery
Click Here to Salivate
Local Suppliers
Contact Info
Photo Gallery
Here's a little sense of the types of food I like to make and ingredients I work with (rollover photos for description)
Diver Scallop, Forbidden Rice, Kaffir Lime Butter...yea. Just...yea
Sous Chef Deisy Sporting Smoked Trout Crostini with Shaved Radish, Lemon & Cilantro
"Ramping" up for Spring!...Couldn't resist the pun!
Frenched rack of lamb and hangar steak ready to be seared
Watercress Salad with French Feta, Citrus and Champagne Vinaigrette
Classic Leek & Potato Soup with white truffle oil
Herb & Garlic Roasted Prime Rib..how good was it? Ask the Sawyer's...(psst...the good looking family to the right)
Sawyer and friends enjoying an outdoor gathering with some prime rib, classic steakhouse sides and my famous margaritas
Grilled wild-caught gulf shrimp and sea scallops with risotto of roasted sunchokes, asparagus and white truffle oil
Baby Zucchini...aww...aren't they adorable?
Warm brie in phyllo with fuji apples, honey and tarragon
Amish chicken browned to perfection in cast iron
French Feta, Blood Oranges and Grapefruit Supremes
The not so humble beginnings of flourless chocolate cake...
Ladies and gentleman...Sexual Chocolate!
Flinging fingerlings...!
Hangar steak...the best keep secret in beef...(I am obviously NOT good at keeping secrets)
Rigatoni with pancetta, San Marzano tomatoes and pecorino romano
Maine lobster salad with mango, red pepper, kohlrabi and kaffir lime dressing
My three-year old eating a Doritos Locos taco...everything in moderation...including moderation
Bruschetta done right...the best around...period.
Warm brie with toasted pecans, apricot preserves and jalapeno peppers
The perfect bridal shower: The brie to your left, plantain chips with mango salsa, bruschetta and lemon, saffron shrimp salad
Ever seen meat that could kill a man? You have now! Tomahawk Ribeye with Applewood Smoked Cipollini Onion & Shiitake Mushroom Ragout
Curry-Scented Veloute of Butternut Squash with Crema Mexicana and Chives
Need to cleanse the palate? I agree! Citrus-Lemongrass Granita
Pan-Roasted Filet Mignon with Shallot-Herb Butter and Truffle Fries.
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I am just now finishing posting the Summer 2011 issue of El Calendario de Todos Santos. This issue covers the months of June through October and features Vincent Lamote as the artist of the month. Vincent is a young new artist, son of Frieda (owner of Galeria Indigo) and Dany (head chef at Hotel California.) Vincent's art has come a long way in the last 2 years and the experienced artists in town have taken him under their collective wings.
This issue also has a story about the Fiestas Tradicionales (October Festival del Pilar) in Todos Santos that celebrate the founding of the town. The story is written by Chloe Johnson with photos by her sister Vivian Johnson. They hail from Portland but visit frequently.
Click the cover image below to view the issue.


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Your new home comes with the 10 year Buildmark Warranty from the NHBC. As part of this, we (the builder of your home) provide a more extensive warranty in the first 2 years. This warranty applies to your new home itself and transfers with ownership of it to anyone to whom you sell this.
We often refer to the 2 year warranty as the 2 year fixtures and fittings warranty – whilst most fixtures and fittings are covered by the warranty, it actually includes a little more. Below we have given you more detail about what is and isn't included within the 2 year warranty.
Further details on the NHBC 10 year Buildmark Warranty can be found on their website.
Your 2 Year Homebuilder Warranty (also referred to as 2 year fixtures and fittings warranty)
The 2 year warranty provides that we will put right any damage caused to your home by a failure by us to build to the appropriate NHBC standards.
Your home is covered by this warranty and includes:
*Good news! If these items are within areas you share with other owners, but you are responsible for maintaining or repairing those items, they are also be covered by the 2 year warranty.
It's not just the big things, the smaller things are covered too
Your home includes anything which is part of it when you purchase it from us and which is fitted at completion, the fixtures and fittings. The 2 year warranty covers the following fitted into your home by us, including:
The warranty however does not cover any consumable items for example bulbs and fuses within the electrical system or any clips, heads, rubber seals or mastic within the plumbing system or which is used to fit kitchen units or sanitary ware or similar items. It also does not cover anything which causes damage because it was not properly maintained or, for example in relation to the water and heating system, or any installation, not serviced as recommended, at least every 12 months
Under the warranty we will:
We are not responsible for:
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Taking reasonable care of your new home
In return for this warranty, we ask that you carry out all homeowners' maintenance including that recommended by the manufacturer for any item covered by the warranty. This requires that:
The full terms and conditions of the warranty are available from the NHBC website and are included in the file you were given when you moved into your new home, called: 'A Guide to your New Home'. If you have any queries or questions please contact your sales advisor who will be delighted to help.
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Free to try Patrice Rozet Windows 98/Me/NT/2000/XP/2003/Vista/Server 2008/7/8 Version 1.1.5 Full Specs
Publisher's Description
From Patrice Rozet:
BricoCalculette is a calculator for Windows dedicated to calculations for habitat and DIY. BricoCalculette combines in one software package, 40 calculators and converters designed to aid with DIY projects and handiwork. The original concept of BricoCalculette permits workers to easily complete various calculations, which often prove difficult, with the help of many different calculators and converters. After a short training period, which is necessary for complete understanding of the logic behind the collaborating calculators, you will be able to easily complete various calculations for your daily or occasional jobs. Main features of BricoCalculette: Standard Windows Calculator. Calculators that specialize in calculations for your DIY home improvement projects and handiwork. Calculators capable of performing principal mathematic equations required for construction and DIY home improvement projects. Calculators that specialize in geometric calculations. Converters capable of performing necessary conversions in different domains of home improvement. Collaboration system between calculators allows you to simply do sub-calculations with dedicated calculators. Easily copy calculation results in other software. Manage different units of measurement. Choose the desired unit of measurement for your calculations. Save and reuse previous calculations.


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My stamp that i used for this little mini banner i made is called "Give Thanks" and
actually has 2 stamps in the set. Both are beautiful sentiments and can be used lots of ways.
I stamped mine on a piece of printed ivory paper but I think i should have embossed it with dark brown to make it pop more but i still like the vintage ways that it all came out.
And the pumpkin i made with oval dies and then used some leaf dies to do the rest.
It was a really fun project to make and doing things like this with your stamps is a good
way to decorate for the holidays and fun little things for your kids to make too.
Thanks so much for stopping over and have a really good day!


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It's been said that next to the Olympics, the annual Winter X Games is the biggest winter sporting event in the world. In some ways you could argue that X Games is even more important, having included sports like ski halfpipe and slopestyle for a decade before this year's decision to make them Olympic events.
In that light, an X Games medal ranks among the biggest achievements in snow sports, and Canada is doing more than holding its own. Over the course of the weekend, Canadians earned 12 podiums including seven gold medals — despite missing some key athletes in sports we usually do well in.
The X Games got off to a good start with Kaya Turski winning her third consecutive ski slopestyle title, landing the first ever switch 1080 by a female competitor in a competition.
Like other Canadians, Turski dedicated the win to her fallen teammate Sarah Burke, an X Games champion who passed away on Jan. 19 as a result of a training injury.
"We have someone watching from above whom we need to make proud," she said. "She constantly pushed the sport, even when she didn't need to, by doing new and harder tricks. I think now it's our turn to keep pushing for her."
In her post-run interview, Turski said: "I always looked up to Sarah, I always will look up to Sarah, and just heading into the first rail I even said to myself 'let's do this Sarah.' She was with me the whole run."
Americans Devin Logan and Anna Segall were second and third. Also for Canada, 17-year-old Dara Howell was sixth overall and Kim Lamarre made the finals to place 10th.
Also taking place on Thursday were the Snowboard Street competition, the Snowmobile Freestyle final and the men's ski slopestyle final. The top Canadian in Snowboard Street was Phil Jacques in fifth. In Ski Slopestyle, an event Canada typically does well in; several of the athletes have been sidelined with injuries or, like JF Houle, are returning from injuries. Houle placed 10th overall. The podium was all-American with Nick Goepper first, Tom Wallisch second and Bobby Brown third.
On Friday, the big event for Canada was the snowboard big air, where 18-year-old Mark McMorris and 21-year-old Sebastien Toutant were first and third after four runs. Torstein Horgmo of Norway picked up the silver medal.
In the women's snowboard slopestyle the top Canadian was Spencer O'Brien, who had a few miscues in all of her runs. The top spot went to American Jamie Anderson, followed by Enn Rukajarvi of Finland and Kjersti Oestgaard Buaas of Norway.
Americans also dominated the women's snowboard superpipe on Friday — a sport where Canada has not been as competitive as in past years. Kelly Clark, Elena Hight and Hannah Teter were first through third in the rankings.


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Violin Limoges Box
Price: $342.00 Members: $307.80
Violin Limoges Box
Exclusively handcrafted for the Met, this Limoges figurine of a violin rests inside its miniature case, exquisitely hand-painted with a charming image of the Metropolitan Opera House, identified in elegant gilt script.
This one-of-a-kind and collectible piece makes a special gift for those who treasure the Metropolitan Opera.
- A Met Opera Exclusive
- Made of porcelain
- Hand-painted
- Handcrafted
- Made in France
Music Notes
Most Western music is based on a system of notation that evolved around 1600 out of earlier practices. The starting point for any opera is the full score, which contains all individual voices and instruments arranged in a specific order on the page. The written music—representing the sounds a composer creates in his head—then comes to life performed by singers onstage and played by the orchestra.
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Focusing on Media Preview Day at the AutoShow
TORONTO, Ont. (February 1, 2017) — Media Preview Day of the 2017 Canadian International AutoShow is getting a new, sharper focus with an increasingly global profile.
To accommodate an ever-growing number of brands in the AutoShow, and the rapidly transforming needs of the digital world, Media Preview Day will present a program that creates opportunities for manufacturers to share their stories in a tighter presentation format, giving media added time to revisit their highlight vehicles and stories for deeper examination.
"The media is rapidly evolving, and the Canadian International AutoShow is working to keep up with the changes," says Jason Campbell, General Manager of the AutoShow. "Deadlines in today's media are immediate. Reporters and social media influencers are giving us quick hits as events happen – so our format should adjust to this new reality."
A new, faster paced media day format will see 20 manufacturers present new products around the AutoShow before early-afternoon is out. The Canadian International AutoShow will feature 41 new Canadian vehicle premieres, including two North American reveals highlighted by the first global public showcase of the Aston Martin AM-RB 001 hypercar concept. In all, 16 concept vehicles – five more than 2016 — and 29 electric, hybrid or alternative fuel vehicles will be highlighted among the more than 1,000 cars and light trucks on display.
(A full schedule for Media Preview Day can be found in the Backgrounder, below.)
Media Day sponsor KPMG, a Canadian leader in delivering audit, tax and advisory services, is thrilled to be back supporting the Canadian International AutoShow during such an important anniversary year for our country.
"It's incredible to think Canada and the automobile here in Canada are both celebrating 150 years, and that the electric car — our country's first electric vehicle designed and built in Toronto in the late 1800s — is seeing a rebirth," says Peter Hatges, National Sector Leader, Automotive, KPMG in Canada. "Cars are more wired and connected than ever before, and automated driving is becoming a reality. We're pleased to speak with members of the media about these ideas and what will drive the country forward at the AutoShow – O Canada indeed."
Need to Know:
- There will be two media registration offices: In Room 204 off the main lobby of the North Building, just inside the Front Street entrance, and on the 600 level in the South Building near the entrance from the south parking garage.
- Media registration offices will close at 2 pm on February 16th. Once these offices are closed, the media office will be found in Room 712 on the 700 Level of the South Building.
- There will be a media working centre and a media lounge provided on the 700 Level of the South Building (rooms 711 and 709 respectively) during Media Preview Day on February 16th.
- Parking on media day is available in both the north and south parking garages of the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. Parking passes for the day will be provided in both media registration offices.
Media Day is sponsored by KPMG together with Canadian Black Book and Castrol.
Interested media can register at www.autoshow.ca/media-registra
The Canadian International AutoShow will be held at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre between February 17th and 26th. Please visit autoshow.ca for more information. Follow us on Instagram @cdnintlautoshow, Like us on Facebook and join the conversation on Twitter @autoshowcanada with the hashtags #AutoShowOhCanada and #CIAS2017.
About the Canadian International AutoShow
With more than 650,000 square feet of exhibits, displays and attractions at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, the Canadian International AutoShow is not only the largest automotive expo in Canada, it is also the country's largest consumer show — a leader in lifestyle, technology and all things automotive. Boasting more than 1,000 cars, trucks, SUVs, concept cars, exotics, classics, muscle cars, fully electric and autonomous vehicles, the 2017 AutoShow is helping celebrate Canada's 150th birthday by showcasing Canadian collectors in each feature of the show. For more information or to buy tickets, please visit www.autoshow.ca.


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Great little Beatle's tune with different words which I lifted from the Mad Jewess! She's got great taste! 😀
All the Liberal People
June 14, 2010
Uncategorized Leave a comment
Louisville idol bites the dust
June 14, 2010
Uncategorized 23 Comments
A few years ago, my husband and I were looking for a church. We finally found one. A fair size congregation of maybe 200 people — I'm guessing — maybe more. The pastor at the time was an ex-biker. He had built a minstry on Jesus alone. He was not in the health/wealth gospel. He boldly preached the truth, had a prison ministry and was a redeemed hippie. I finally found a place I could call home.
Within a couple of weeks he had to retire due to health problems. The church was left with a young couple; very sweet. They had a heart for people and still do.
But, people left and began going to this new church called New Vision. It was being said it had everything you could want. I saw Red flags. The more I heard about it the least impressed I was. I was told I was judgmental. Oh well. It wasn't the first time and won't be the last time.
Kind of like the first time I saw Robert tilton on TV back in the 80s. I said something isn't quite right about him. You're judgemental.
When Benny Hinn came out with his book, Good Morning Holy Spirit and I said something seemed odd. You're judgmental.
I could go on and on — but won't.
Anyway, this idol of a church, this idol of a pastor has bit the dust. It is coming down. Glory be to God. Glory to God for not putting up with this stuff anymore.
Below is a video that may explain why God allowed this pastor to resign. I hope the whole thing crumbles to the ground. Jesus was not the cornerstone of this ministry. If it be rebuilt, may it be rebuilt in the image GOD has for it and not pastors who feed the sheep entertainment!
Following article gotten here: My comments in green.
John David Boggs was dismissed as pastor of his high-profile Okolona congregation after nearly six years of leading it amid growth and controversy, according to an announcement Sunday by the governing board of New Vision Ministry Center.
"Based on information brought to the attention of the New Vision Ministry Center board of directors, and provided by the laws of the Church of God International, it is with heavy hearts that we have made the decision to dismiss David Boggs as pastor of New Vision Ministry Center, effective June 11," board member Bob Brown said.
The rest of the board stood behind Brown as he made the announcement before several hundred people gathered for worship at the Outer Loop church.
The directors did not say why they were removing Boggs, and dozens of people walked out, some in tears, during and after the announcement. Two were escorted out by security guards after shouting that Boggs, who was not present, had not been allowed to present his side of the story.
A church that has to have security guards is more than I want to deal with. There are hundreds if not thousands of real little churches all through the world — hardly any of them here in the U.S. — who have no security guards and they are persecuted. But some pastors here in the U.S. either feel so important or are afraid, that they must need body guards.
"This is probably the hardest thing that I have had to do in my entire life," Brown told the congregation. "… This board loves David and his family, and we are supporting his recovery in any way we can."
Does not mention what his recovery is. I wonder why.
Attempts to reach Boggs by phone and Internet were unsucessful Sunday, and he did not return a phone message left last week at the church office.
Boggs — who had been a bishop in the Church of God International, a Pentecostal denomination based in Cleveland, Tenn. — had led the Okolona Church of God to dramatic growth, but he and his businesses have also drawn repeated lawsuits, fines and other complaints over roofing operations in storm-damaged states throughout the South and Midwest.
Boggs will be replaced on an interim basis by Don Logan, a longtime preacher in the Church of God denomination who also served as interim before Boggs became pastor.
"David Boggs is a very, very close and dear friend," Logan told the congregation. He said he came with no "agenda of my own" other than to help the church recover.
"You had a very energetic young man as your pastor," Logan said. "You'll now have to tolerate an old … preacher, but I'll love you, I'll listen to you, I'll share with you, I'll pray with you and shout with you and rejoice with you."
I hope you will be a truth speaker and not be an ear tickler! I hope you will get rid of the flesh that Boggs brought in with his watered down entertainment driven church!
He added, "Don't we serve a good God?" as much of the congregation applauded.
"Whatever you do, don't lose your relationship or your experience of deliverance from your God," he said.
Logan declined to comment further when reached after the service.
Brown said the board would answer more questions at a members-only meeting Wednesday.
Phone calls to the Church of God's national and Kentucky headquarters — made last week to ask about then-unconfirmed reports about New Vision — were not returned.
Boggs, 35, who is married with three children, became pastor in 2004. The church began to grow under its new name amid high-energy worship.
He often based his fiery sermons on popular television shows and sports events, tying their themes into Bible passages. He promoted the church with various means — including Internet broadcasts, an elaborate Halloween haunted house and a widespread billboard campaign in 2009, proclaiming New Vision as "a church for people like you" with a particular appeal to people turned off by traditional churches or who felt unwelcome there.
But his actions in the roofing business in numerous storm-damaged regions around the country have drawn lawsuits in several states, including Kentucky, as well as fines and other government actions. Customers and business associates have repeatedly alleged he failed to make good on poorly done repairs and other obligations.Boggs has admitted some mistakes while also blaming others for many of his problems.
Church of God officials have stood by Boggs amid those allegations in past years, saying they believed he had adequately explained and settled any business disputes.
He recently went through U.S. Bankruptcy Court to reorganize $5.7 million in debts, including more than $1 million in state and federal taxes.
In 2009, the church moved two miles west from its Outer Loop location to the former Wal-Mart across from the Jefferson Mall, which it rented and renovated into a worship center.
As of Sunday, six contractors had filed liens totaling $567,971 on the property, owned by Brown Noltemeyer Co., alleging non-payment for renovation work done on behalf of New Vision. A woman who answered the phone at Brown Noltemeyer last week declined to comment on the situation.
At Sunday's service, a reporter was allowed to remain during the announcement. But while standing in the hallway afterward, he was escorted out by two security guards who did not give a reason and also refused to allow him to speak to anyone inside or outside the building.
BARBRA STREISAND talks to GOLDA MEIR and Sings Hatikvah
June 14, 2010
Barbara Streisand talked with Golda Meir during the 1978 network broadcast of The Stars Salute Israel at 30 years. Streisand then sings Hatikvah, Israel's national anthem.
Look how things have changed? Now, we have Hollywood — perhaps, Streisand included — who have no love for Israel at all. Israel; America's friend and the apple of God's eye. The world will turn against this tiny nation, but God will war against it's enemies.
Oh how far we have strayed.
Israel, may the God of your Father's protect you and guide you. Shalom.


text:
Bernie Williams (& Group) – Don't Tease Me/ Why Fool Yourself, '55 (Imperial 5360)
Both songs were written by D. Bartholomew of The Hawks Group and have his New Orleans sound.
A few sources list the BB as The Scrubs-uncredited, which by some error/misprint/intent were The Hawks, and as such, are credited on Imperial 5294. See Marv Goldberg's history of The Hawks and D Bartholomew.
Is Bernie Williams the Bernard Williams of the Philadelphia Blue Notes as some references claim.