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Bonnie King
Oct-19-2013 02:36TweetFollow @OregonNews
Arrest Alexian Lien for Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter: Give the Motorcyclists in NYC JusticeOp-Ed by Tim King Salem-News.com
Does having a baby in your Ranger SUV give you a right to kill?
(TUCSON) - The motorcyclists may have been reckless in NYC but the attack against the driver of a black Range Rover who ran down a number of people intentionally, was a spontaneous reaction to an arrogant, extremely dangerous hit and run motorist.
Media and the public seem to believe that the driver of a car had a right to bash cyclists with thousands of pounds of steel because he was scared, I call foul. Those motorcyclists weren't out to hurt some guy's family, that is a sensational and ridiculous assertion, and it is being repeated endlessly in electronic media and press.
The driver, acting out of pure fear and using his vehicle as a weapon, resorted to violence instead of keeping his cool.
ABC News states, "Imagine being out for a drive with your family on a Sunday afternoon and suddenly you're surrounded by a swarm of motorcycles, roaring engines, angry bikers, in every direction..." I totally fail to glean what justifies this editorial line in their report. The prejudice Americans feel toward motorcycle riders could not be more prevalent.
Motorcycle riders are everyday people, they do this gathering of 1,000 bikes in New York City each year. Many rode dirt bikes, they sported backpacks and girlfriends. I hardly can imagine that the riders were "angry," until a driver decided to run down human beings with his heavy, expensive SUV.
A report from ABC News shows the riders break out the car window and haul the driver of the SUV out, but they fail to mention that he was guilty of a deliberate series of hit and runs that left a number of people injured. Of course privilege exists for men like 33-year old Alexian Lien. He is a Chinese born banker, a big shot, part of what Occupy Wall Street calls "the 1%". He wasn't hurt very badly, he was literally brought to justice by riders who had witnessed his series of crimes committed allegedly out of fear.
The riders weren't out to hurt a family in broad daylight for no reason.
They apparently were attempting to clear a section of roadway in order to perform stunts on their motorcycles. Most of the mainstream media portray this driver's actions as necessary, it is disheartening and ridiculous, particularly the ABC News report.
The South China Morning Post wrote: "... as drivers slowed and pulled to the right to let the motorcyclists pass, the Range Rover remained in the center lane, the video appears to show. The first crash occurred as a rider slowed to a near-stop in front of the SUV."
The man who turned himself in, Allen Edwards of Queens who is 42, is seen in the video pounding on the SUV with his hands, in an attempt to stop the driver from continuing on to harm and injure more motorcycle riders. Another rider smashed the driver's side window with his helmet in order to stop Lien. He was charged with reckless endangerment, criminal mischief and menacing.
A motorcyclist named Christopher Cruz has been charged with reckless driving, reckless endangerment, endangering the welfare of a child and menacing. There was never any attempt to harm the man's wife and child, only Lien was pulled from the SUV. He allegedly was struck in the face receiving bruising and lacerations. His injuries were treated in a hospital. They were inflicted by riders who had watched him blatantly target others and run them down.
The person at the center of the controversy who uses the name Hollywood Stuntz, is Aaron Lao. As the video to the right shows, there was never any endorsement of violence from his group. Yet he has received death threats. Even YouTube is packed with threatening comments. An individual using the name ezengel writes:
"f*cking biker thinking they are the coolest on the roads, if i was driving the suv i would be knockut every biker in this moment and put my gun an shoot em all up."
Think about where this took place.
New York City is the most progressive and cutting edge city in America. I was riding through New York City myself just one day prior to this large scale ride. I actually think that That The Big Apple should be glad these bikers loosely riding under the banner of Hollywood Stuntz, only go out and do this once a year.
The bottom line from what I can tell, is that all of the drivers on this section of roadway had pulled over and were working with the motorcycle riders; allowing them room. Only Alexian Lien refused and stayed in the center lane, making it impossible for the riders to proceed. He should be arrested and charged with a number of crimes, and he should have followed the lead of the other drivers.
Mr. Lien brought on his own problems, and groups like ABC present the story in a fashion that is completely out of context. The riders had every right to subdue a man who had just recklessly run down a number of innocent people who never intended him any harm. The man was a coward for doing what he did. This second video from FOX News, is produced by the only network I've seen that looks at the event through the eyes of the riders who were there.
The rider who uses his helmet to smash the window of Lien's vehicle says he did it to keep the man from driving into and running over other riders. He talked to FOX News but asked not to be identified:
"As he took off he hit me and he just kept going. Once he hit me off my bike I got angry and took off after him."
The rider added:
"Two minutes prior to that this guy almost took my life from me. And I'm the aggressor because I smashed his window?"
Let's get a couple of other things straight. "Bikers" ride Harley Davidson's and other American motorcycles. People who ride sport bikes and dirt bikes and on/off road motorcycles are not "bikers" per se, they are motorcyclists.
Also, the word "gang" is used repeatedly in the mainstream media reports, and even by non traditional news sources. The one "club" that was present is called "Frontline Soldiers". It is comprised of current and former policemen. Two officers have been identified as having taken part in the motorcycle event. One police detective, 32-year old Wojciech Braszczok of NYPD, is among the six people that have been arrested. and is one of four motorcycle riders facing criminal charges, the Daily Mail reports. He faces riot and criminal mischief charges. FOX News reports that, "investigators discovered video evidence showing him punching an already damaged back window, then twice kicking the side of the SUV before leaving the scene, according to two people familiar with the case."
28-year old Matthew Rodriguez is with NYPD's Internal Affairs Bureau. He claims to have not been near the scene of the incident, but he confirmed that he is a member of Frontline Soldiers.
There is no question that this über edgy annual gathering of motorcyclists and display of skills and bravado involves traffic laws being broken, and features some degree of bad behavior, but I fail to understand how motorcycles come to represent so much fear and result in such needless and confusing labeling, particularly the stunt riders and these adrenaline junkies who simply want to show off their riding skills in a public setting. We should not give a legal stamp of approval to Mr Lien's destructive, cowardly behavior.
If you choose to comment, keep it civil and on topic, please, or it will not be published, thank you.
South China Morning Post - Bikers assault banker in New York highway clash
Global Grind - The Man Behind 'Hollywood Stuntz' Clears The Air On Horrific NYC Motorcycle Attack (VIDEO)
Daily Mail - Undercover internal affairs police officer who was part of bike gang that surrounded and attacked SUV driver says he didn't even see the incident
FOX News - Undercover cop arrested in NYC biker gang attack
Salem-News Traffic Related Links: Road Conditions | Road Cameras | Seven day weather forecast
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Comments Leave a comment on this story.
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Pookie January 4, 2015 1:52 am (Pacific time)
Truth is if Lien hadn't recieved a little tuneup at the end we never would have even heard about this. Another rich A-hole would have gotten away with crippling someone and the sad thing is the media has seen to it anyway
Dennis September 21, 2014 5:51 am (Pacific time)
Just like you say in this article, the majority of the media has taken this story and twisted it just to villify the bikers (motorcyclists). A lot of it has to do with what happened when the SUV stopped after bumping Christopher Cruz. To put this to rest, I stabilized the video using a custom fixed point video stabilizer so you can see exactly what happened that day. The video is at: http://youtu.be/o4eJZPwhfX8 The majority of people who have made videos on this subject have taken the low road, but I have decided that the bikers will be treated fairly in my videos. The stabilized video shows that Cruz was actually walking away from the SUV when Lien gunned the engine. So much for the "feared for my life" lie.
mitch April 29, 2014 12:40 am (Pacific time)
in the immortal words of south park.....FAGS!!!!!!!!
Anonymous April 28, 2014 11:05 am (Pacific time)
If they haen't drag out Lien and beat him up I m sure there would be so much hate against the bikers. Have you seen the other video of how they were riding? They were all over the streets and even side walks
Dennis April 23, 2014 5:45 am (Pacific time)
Wow, this is the first article I have read on this subject that doesn't simply regurgitate what mainstream media says. Here is a documentary that follows in the same tone.
Hey Dennis, thanks for writing and sharing this, I reacted this way because I ride, I was in NYC one day before this happened, I am going to watch the video right now.
Tim King
ae em March 5, 2014 1:11 am (Pacific time)
Alexian Lien committed 4 felonies, but is charged of none. Lien is a lucky guy that a mild beating ensued. Everybody feels sorry for Lien. If charged for his crimes, but not acquitted by a jury of peers, then it would be minimum of 48 months of prison time for Lien. Affluent man get out of the jail free card.
Thanks for your comment.
Wing February 24, 2014 2:36 pm (Pacific time)
"They apparently were attempting to clear a section of roadway in order to perform stunts on their motorcycles." Which means they were actively impeding traffic so they could break the law on an NYC freeway. You're ok with this? As a veteran myself I'm horrified to think you at one point may have been looking down the barrel of a gun (on our nations behalf) with the same warped perspective with which you view this situation.
This clip offers an example of what the drivers were being asked to stop for. My only point, again, is that the man in the SUV has no right to mow down riders murderously because he is scared, damn, I can't believe how many people fail to be "horrified" by the acts of the driver. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVe05lOFyJM
Anonymous December 22, 2013 9:21 pm (Pacific time)
I think Lien might have been in escape mode already before the Cruz nudging the SUV bumper incident. We should ask why the side mirror got broken. What does Lien know about the broken side mirror? Who broke it and when and why? All testimonials of threats and intimidation are those of Lien and wife Ng rather than those of direct eyewitnesses. Both Lien and Ng have clear motives for excaggerate the alleged intimidation to avoid fallout of criminal prosecution.
Patrick Boylan December 12, 2013 4:53 am (Pacific time)
"Only Alexian Lien refused and stayed in the center lane, making it impossible for the riders to proceed."
Absolutely, I believe the man was afraid. There is no question of that. But he became aggressive beyond reason.
John December 7, 2013 7:14 pm (Pacific time)
"All this guy had to do is be cool and get out of the way. He chose to endanger his family with his aloof behavior." Because a bunch of drug dealers, many who don't even have valid driver's licenses, are entitled to force their "law" on the streets via mob rule. It's actually good that this incident happened, now the police will crack down on all those assholes and shut down every one of those mob gatherings before they even happen. They threatened the man's wife, it's all on tape, which is disgusting whether or not they actually carried through with their threats. What you call "aloof," normal people call minding their own business and going about their day.
Eugene December 7, 2013 2:39 pm (Pacific time)
There were over 200 complaints re this "gang" of "harmless" motorcyclists"!
Their goal is stunt riding, much of which is indeed illegal. But they did not set out expressly to harm people.
Boston December 3, 2013 12:12 pm (Pacific time)
What.. Are youkidding me.. These bikers purposely cut him off in an attempt to threaten him. Then he hit one. Then they started slashing his tires and beating on his car. So he took off. Yeah he ran a couple over.. well if these bikers want to run with the big dogs then they can deal with the consequences. I know REAL bikers. And they don't threaten innocent people who are minding there own business. These guys are clowns.
JJ Bale December 3, 2013 8:33 am (Pacific time)
So you support using a car for a weapon? Trust me, if they had intended to beat up the woman they would have, but they didn't, which kills that side of the argument. These riders were attempting to stop a hit and run driver, I would have done the exact same thing. All this guy had to do is be cool and get out of the way. He chose to endanger his family with his aloof behavior.
L. George McLeod November 28, 2013 7:53 pm (Pacific time)
Why are the banker's supporters so vulgar? I don't see these words in the article, what kind of representatives for families are you people? You all sound like a bunch of violent psychopaths to be quite frank and your bloodlust for harming people who scare you is just grotesque.
Gideon November 12, 2013 7:24 am (Pacific time)
Why would someone have to get out of the middle so the bikers can do tricks?
Ashshurbanipal November 9, 2013 5:56 am (Pacific time)
Ashshurbanipal November 9, 2013 5:51 am (Pacific time)
The Massachusetts man who was run-over has never had a valid MA driver's license, has been ticketed 16 times since 1999, and was deemed by MA a habitual traffic offender thus losing the right to drive until 2017. It's horrible that the man might never walk again but he had a serious and repeated history of traffic violations. (None of which warranted that his outcome of course but the man certainly did not modify his riding behavior, which could have place countless other lives at risk.) http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/10/01/lawrence-man-seriously-injured-nyc-incident-involving-suv-and-motorcyclists/jHju3V1xAOsdF6Q2vT8BaL/story.html I hope you give fair consideration to opposing viewpoints and publish comments that provide depth to the situation you prefaced.
Ashshurbanipal November 9, 2013 5:43 am (Pacific time)
"From a truck driver: Michael Xavier Kaulbach: As a trucker that would deliver in north jersey and New York I am familiar with these gangs. I can hopefully clarify a few things. First the initial "accident" is part of a game they play. They ride in a huge group and will operate together to slow down traffic. Next they pick out high end vehicles targeting people with families in them, the targets will usually be white or Asian. Then one of the riders will do a " brake check" and stop suddenly in front of the target vehicle causing a minor bump. In some cases they will just roll back into their target vehicle . They will then mob the vehicle demanding money and or begin attacking the person inside. It is their practice to also slash the tires to prevent the vehicle from escaping. Truckers are well aware of them and are advised not to stop." http://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/black-hispanic-biker-gang-vs-chinese-family-in-range-rover/
Ashshurbanipal November 9, 2013 5:34 am (Pacific time)
I thought it was obvious that in one of the videos shown on the major news stations the man who was run over deliberated slowed down after merging ahead of the Land Rover. He even turned back to look at the vehicle as he did so. It was as if his intention to tap the Land Rover. Moreover, the Land Rover did stop at the accident site but proceeded to move to a secondary location due to safety, from my understanding. To me, the situation is similar to Plank of Carneades and Lien acted to save himself and his family. It would depend on one's individual code of ethics whether Lien did was "right" or "wrong." However, in no way do I think he was running away from taking responsibility of the incident. PS. I think it's totally out of line to defame ABCs the way you have. Why can you excuse the actions of your forefathers so easily just by saying "that doesn't make the modern descendent[sic] guilty of the crime, as long as they learned from the crimes of their ancestors"? After more than a century of slavery, can you really absolve the overwhelming disadvantage black Americans have carried into present day so nonchalantly? Can any apology be enough to right the atrocities--nay, the crimes against humanity--committed against the indigenous peoples of North America by your "civilized" Old World ancestors? Or of the persecution ordinary people endured at the height of McCarthyism simply because they did not participate in Communism witch hunts? And what of the thousands of people of Japanese ancestry who not only had their property confiscated but were evicted from their homes and rounded up in concentration--excuse me, "internment"--camps, doomed to live out the rest of their days so long as WWII dragged on?
nepawoods November 5, 2013 1:46 pm (Pacific time)
Merriam-Webster defines 'justice' as "the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals". Tim King writes "He wasn't hurt very badly, he was literally brought to justice by riders who had witnessed his series of crimes committed allegedly out of fear." Being stomped on in the street by an angry mob ... Even assuming he had committed crimes, that is the author's idea of what is, literally, justice? Surely the "journalist" has access to a dictionary.
Tim November 5, 2013 1:06 pm (Pacific time)
You're an ignorant, racist moron.
Yup they are, one after another.
JJ Bale November 5, 2013 12:55 pm (Pacific time)
Salem News, here are a few (of many) facts you have missed: 1. Being Chinese American does not mean Lien was born in China, that means Lien have Chinese ancestry. THAT is Culture 101. 2. PR China does not allow for dual citizenship so even if Lien was born in China with him being described accurately as Chinese American means he is NOT a citizen of China. 3. It is RACIST to assume all Asians are Chinese; it is RACIST to assume all Chinese American were born in China.
JFL November 4, 2013 10:16 pm (Pacific time)
Mr. King wrote: "Chinese-American means he was born in China and emigrated to the US." This is a false statement. A person can be Chinese-American and be born in the U.S. to parents who are both Chinese. Alexian Lien is not "Chinese born" -- he was born in the U.S. One would think Mr. King would check his facts. But I suppose when journalistic integrity is not a priority, fact-checking really isn't so important either.
Lloyd November 4, 2013 2:20 pm (Pacific time)
Unless Oregon American English is different from the rest of the country... But of course, the dictionary, Google, and Wikipedia, and 90+% of commenters on this page are wrong. Or, more likely, you don't want to backtrack and admit you were wrong, and continue to obfuscate and pretend ignorance of basic linguistics. There is not a single source that defines an Italian-American as someone born in Italy. Every credible source defines the term as, "An American of Italian ethnicity/decent." But then you knew that. Keep pretending ignorance to cover for your bigotry, no one is fooled. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/Italian-American https://www.google.com/#q=italian+american+definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American
Lloyd November 4, 2013 1:36 pm (Pacific time)
"I personally do see the Anglo-American at the root cause of most of it but that doesn't make the modern descendent guilty of the crime, as long as they learned from the crimes of their ancestors." Just like ethnic Jews are not by default guilty of Israel's misdeeds, and ethnic Chinese are not by default guilty of the PRC's misdeeds. Logic, use it.
Lloyd November 4, 2013 1:31 pm (Pacific time)
A Chinese-American is an American citizen of Chinese ethnicity. Just like Nancy Pelosi is an Italian American. You will never hear anyone claim Pelosi's "home country" is Italy, and you will never hear anyone claim that her "grasp of the American culture might not be what it could be" because she is a "hyphenated American." You don't post proof for your claims because you have none. Zero integrity.
Chinese-American means he was born in China and emigrated to the US. Nancy Pelosi would absolutely be an Italian-American if she had been born in Italy, this is Culture 101 stuff Lloyd. Just accept the fact that this is not a story about racism, it is about the decision of a driver to use his car as a weapon. You believe he had a right to do that and you have stated that clearly, that is your perfect right, no problemo.
Lloyd November 4, 2013 1:12 pm (Pacific time)
Post credible proof that: a) Alexian Lien was born in the People's Republic of China. or b) Alexian Lien is a citizen of the People's Republic of China. We're all waiting for the proof that support your bigoted lies.
We don't work for you Lloyd, look it up yourself.
Lloyd November 4, 2013 1:08 pm (Pacific time)
Opposing the Israeli and PRC governments does not equate to bigotry against ethnic Jews and Chinese that are not even citizens of those countries. Want to blame people for their ethnicities? Why not blame modern Anglo-Americans because their ancestors nearly wiped out the native population? Because that would be nonsensical, bigoted, and ignorant.
Lloyd the Native American holocaust is the worst in history. Israel as a world political operator has almost nothing to do with religion, just military might and morals. I personally do see the Anglo-American at the root cause of most of it but that doesn't make the modern descendent guilty of the crime, as long as they learned from the crimes of their ancestors.
Lloyd November 4, 2013 12:57 pm (Pacific time)
Give one example of a commenter below being "blatantly anti-African-American". The only comments referring to African Americans below clearly state that race is irrelevant. Still insisting Lien is "Chinese born" huh? Where is the journalistic integrity? Post credible evidence of that statement or remove it.
The guy is Chinese-American, it isn't a slam to describe people as they are. That fact realistically means his grasp of the American culture might not be what it could be. He was described as Chinese-American from the first coverage onward. That doesn't mean he's any less of a person in this world. Never was that implication made.
MakeNoMistake November 4, 2013 8:26 am (Pacific time)
Of course Tim King is not going to retract his comment about Lien being "Chinese born." That would be admitting he made a mistake, something that he has consistently proven himself to be incapable of doing. As for the comment below, which contains the term "anti Israel racist" to which Tim showed some reading comprehension problems by responding, "Israel is a race now? That is the funniest thing we've heard all day." It's a fact that Tim is anti-Israel. As for being racist because of this, it's certainly possible. People can and do hate Jews because of their "race" rather than their religion. (Try Googling "Racial antisemitism.")
Try googling 'apartheid' because that is what Israel has for a political system and people have to be racist in order to even support the Zionist govt. I also notice that some of my detractors who are falsely calling me racist are blatantly anti-African-American.
tophtml November 4, 2013 7:51 am (Pacific time)
You ask the question, "Does having a baby in your Ranger SUV give you a right to kill?" The answer is that if the circumstances warrant it then YES you can. Clearly the Lien's pradicament was one of those circumstances. You, as the author of this article, needs to educate yourself. You can start here: http://youtu.be/kRSlpSqwch4
israeli troll; November 1, 2013 4:26 pm (Pacific time)
tim is a documented anti Israel racist unwilling to admit his own denial in nearly everything he brings on to himself. Yes tim, this "israeli right wing troll" agrees with NVLV Realist.,"do us all a favor and stop writing".
Israel is a race now? That is the funniest thing we've heard all day.
my two cents October 31, 2013 4:39 pm (Pacific time)
Where does it say that he's Chinese born?
NVLV Realist October 31, 2013 8:53 am (Pacific time)
This whole story is crazy and lacks supportive fakes. If you are such a wonderful writer than you would know you have to write with facts that support your view. You state that Lien hit multiple people leaving them injured. Yet, to date there has been no video produced and/or anyone coming forward stating Mr. Lien hit them previously before the video. Therefore to speak in a way as if you "know" is just wrong. It's all "here say" and lacks evidence to support this. If this is true surly the police would have placed charges on Mr. Lien for reckless driving. That is one of the annoying parts of many in your story. As you are given the freedom speech and it is your right, you should as a journalist hold some values within what you say. This story is so bias and ridiculous, what does this mans job and income have anything to do with the incident? Nothing, if anything it makes you sound envious of what this man has, and out of it your readers see an angry writer who doesn't have the bank account he so wishes he had! You're doing yourself no good by writing this, again free to an opinion but the crazy replies to peoples thoughts are just stupid. Just as much as you have the freedom so do others so move on with your comments! In honesty you will never win the battle about what happened, more people side with Lien than the bikers. I understand this upsets you because you are such a biker yourself with all your facebook pictures of you speeding down the road at 150 mph. Violence will never be justification for anything period, these bikers had no right to take the law in their own hands. Like it has been said many times before why was there no 911 calls from these bikers? Why, because they feel they are above the law. Mr. Lien and his wife both made 911 calls they did not try and take it on all by themselves. Just because some little bikers want to do tricks on the road does not mean drivers should have to pull over for them and if that is true what you wrote GOOD for Mr. Lien for not pulling over these little punks don't rule the road screw you for saying he should have pulled over I wouldn't have the hell with you for thinking they own the road. You only have that view because you like to speed down the road at 150 mph. You want to kill yourself by being reckless that's your business but we as drivers don't have to bow down to punk drivers so get that straight! Why did these "oh so nice bikers' bash out the wifes window and try and pull her from the car? If their problem is with the driver what mess with the passenger who not to mention is a women? Punks plain and simple PUNKS what were they going to do kick and stomp on her too? Ya, come on Mr. Journalist address that issue?!? I'm waiting just to see what type of ignorant reasoning you can give for that behavior. It was one thing to go after Lien which of course I don't agree with but it is another to go after the wife and after people screaming about the child in the car those cowards continued. You're so damn smart let's hear your intelligent reply to the reason behind going after the wife? There is none so stop writing your stupid articles. You think you don't sound racist sorry pal you do!! What does his race have anything to do with the incident? Why even put in there about him being Chinese? There's no reason to even put that in there if it was a white guy would you say this "white man" no I'm doubting that! It just has no rhyme or reason to be put in there except for being racists. You're clearly ignorant within your whole article and it's proven throughout. DO us al a favor and stop writing!
JJ Bale October 31, 2013 8:33 am (Pacific time)
So Salem News, are you using the word "Chinese" to describe Mr. Lien's nationality or his ethnicity or ancestral origin? Even from your quote it does not mention Mr. Lien's nationality - you said attacking one's nationality does not constitute racism, but you indeed wrongly assumed that Mr. Lien is Chinese citizen - maybe it is a honest mistake but with in the context it is more like the result of racism. Mr. King can say he is anti-racism all he want, but action speaks louder than words.
Sherry Liu October 31, 2013 6:11 am (Pacific time)
Wow, this is messed up. You guys don't know the difference between nationality and ethnicity. Calling Lien a Chinese banker is like calling Obama a Kenyan president. FYI, Lien attended Columbia University as an undergrad. International students usually come to the United States for grad school, not undergrad. Also, Alexian is an American citizen. He's an American, and it is ignorant and xenophobic to insist that he is a Chinese national/banker when that is clearly not the case. You have probably alienated every Asian American who has read this page.
my two cents October 30, 2013 7:04 pm (Pacific time)
Yup a chinese-american. As in an American national, an american citizen, whose ancestors were from china. He's an american. His home country is teh US. Who is this chinese banker your article mentions? I didn't know the US is a "communist refuge of war criminals like Pol Pot" damn learn something new every day.
Editor October 30, 2013 6:21 pm (Pacific time)
Quote from South China Morning Post subheader:
Chinese-American man dragged from his SUV and attacked in front of wife and daughter after driving through gang to escape confrontation
my two cents October 30, 2013 5:50 pm (Pacific time)
Dude none of the four sources at the bottom of the article say that that guy's nationality is Chinese. Not even the China morning post one.
karma inc; October 30, 2013 1:44 pm (Pacific time)
99% of reader comments should be in favor of this article.
Lloyd October 30, 2013 12:52 pm (Pacific time)
"Realistically" this is the only source that seems to indicate Mr. Lien's nationality:
Lloyd what is going on with your continual bizarre comments over the nationality of this man? Are you paid by the banker's company to provide this semi-logical form of advocacy? Lien's nationality is mentioned in every account, start with the links at the bottom of this page. You are really seriously reaching on this one, Mr. King is a known anti-racist, you might as well say the sky is bright red.
Lloyd October 30, 2013 12:37 pm (Pacific time)
"Last time I checked attaching a nationality is not racism" - Mr. King attached a nationality when there is no indication anywhere that is actually Mr. Lien's nationality. That unfounded logical leap was made in the context of a published attack on Mr. Lien, and thus the negative implications of him being a "Chinese banker" per Mr. King are blatantly obvious. Denying that is disingenuous. And "financial rapists and pillagers" is a stupid statement. Banks are a necessity for modern society to function. Yes, there are criminals in the industry, that does not mean the industry itself is inherently criminal. That is like condemning the global shipping industry because many shipping companies are involved in international crimes (such as human trafficking). The implication is ridiculous, and only ignorant people spew such nonsense. It's clear 99% of readers see through this crap your editors deemed fit to publish. Nothing further needs to be said.
I agree, nothing further from you needs to be said. You redefine the idea of stretching a fact, and you are all alone out there as all of my readers know I am vehemently anti-racist and at the same time I am a realist and will never hesitate to offer a description because the terms I use will be misconstrued. Trust me it happens regularly.
JJ Bale October 30, 2013 8:56 am (Pacific time)
wow, in the absence of true journalistic virtue, Salem News is now openly discouraging people's attention to details of their "reporting?" kinda ironic Salem News also "educated us what the definition of a "troll" is - I guess detail is important if the glove fits. Yes, it is just an opinion piece but it is from the "holier-than-god" Tim King for god's sake!
Holier than thou? Please.... just because someone raises points you can't counter doesn't mean they have some self-superiority issue.
Lloyd October 30, 2013 7:32 am (Pacific time)
"it is just an opinion piece" Yes, a racist/classist opinion piece by a motorcycle enthusiast who hates anyone that works in the finance industry. An objective opinion, surely.
Lloyd you just keep going don't you? Sorry if I offend your friends in the banking industry who have destroyed my country from the inside out. Sorry I don't agree with the virtues of the financial rapists and pillagers as being somehow "OK". But any time that a person such as yourself begins describing what others "hate" you are on shaky ground to say the least.
Lloyd October 30, 2013 7:23 am (Pacific time)
Mr. Lien was a victim of a mob of criminals, many of whom had revoked licenses, thus, no legal right to even be on the road with a vehicle. Furthermore, almost every opinion AGAINST him is framed in racist/classist terms. "He is a Chinese banker" is probably inaccurate, as there has been NO indication in the news that Mr. Lien is a Chinese citizen. He is very likely an American citizen, and his (assumed) ethnicity was only mentioned due to Mr. King's very obvious hostility for the "Chinese." The only other argument against him is, he is a highly paid office worker, a "rich guy" who deserved to get attacked by a mob of "poor people". As if he didn't work hard in school to get where he is today. Disgusting. This article deserves every bit of condemnation it gets.
You don't have the foggiest idea of what racism is. Last time I checked attaching a nationality is not racism, of course you are using it as an opportunist who frankly doesn't deserve the dignity of a reply.
Tragic Event October 29, 2013 11:10 pm (Pacific time)
To the person who said that Tim King took a photo of him riding a motorcycle at 145 MPH or whatever it was, is THAT really any indication of his reporting or OP-ED? There are hundreds if not thousands of YouTube videos or photo's online showing people on motorcycles doing the same thing or even more dangerous "stunts" to the general motoring public, and yet I have not seen one photo you are talking about online. If it is true, it is his right as an American to do it, post it, and risk his OWN life if that is his choice. IF while doing it -- he kills or causes injuries to other people, then we can have a conversation about that. His reporting ability should be based on what is in his writing and what is in his content -- nothing more -- nothing less. IMHO.
Tragic Event October 29, 2013 7:04 pm (Pacific time)
Tim states in one of his comments that he was in NYC one day before this incident took place. Yet if you look at his story byline it says Tucson, Arizona. So in one day he rode from NYC to Tucson, Arizona to write this? As any GOOD journalist would know the byline should always be where the story took place, not from where you wrote it from, and I HIGHLY doubt that Tim rode from NYC to Tucson -- 2,391 miles -- which takes 6.5 hours by plane according to numerous online flight sites. And if you were there the day before it happened and made it too Arizona in one day, why did it take you till October 19th to publish this story when this all went down on Sept. 29th? Talk about waiting till all the OTHER MAJOR NEWS WEBSITES are off a story to write one to try and score some points and try and boost your web rating. Looks like EVEN bikers don't care for your handling of this story.
Why are you so worried about this? The article was written weeks after the incident took place, and you know JACK about datelines. It must make you feel so good to be able to ramble on here, stop trying to over-analyze every detail, it is just an opinion piece.
A tragic event October 29, 2013 6:45 pm (Pacific time)
Once again Salem-News.com is supporting the ONLY people who they can get any money out of. The bikers were WAY out of line, there were even off duty officers who should have stepped in and said come on get away from the SUV and let them go. But NO it had to so out of control, that a person is now hurt and lying in a hospital bed, maybe for life, and a husband and wife and their child will have to live with the events that happened that day for the rest of their lives. He will NEVER face any charges, and the police that, while off duty, should be the ones questioned as to why they waited so long to come forward after this, and did not do anything to stop this before life's were affected. Again another story all for the number of comments and views just to make their numbers go up, so they can get money from anyone they can.
Nate Jusko October 29, 2013 9:09 am (Pacific time)
Your points about getting out of the way of the bikers would be valid...IF this was a sanctioned ride that received police approval beforehand. It wasn't, and therefore your entire diatribe about the car drivers should have just pulled over and let the bikers go through is invalid. Nice try at a sensationalist piece to get your name known, but this was an overall failure on your part to get even the simplest of facts straight.
go to work; October 29, 2013 12:26 am (Pacific time)
get a job and get off the net! pathetic is a gross understatement.
karma inc; October 29, 2013 12:00 am (Pacific time)
i hope it happens to you,i'm sure you'll know just what to do.,why were you gone when it happened?.,one day in new york city? I doubt all you say and you ought to seek professional help. Apologize to those of us you consider to be fools for reading in anything close to your opinion and retract this bullshit, it's the bottom of the ninth and you are out on strikes.,no balls, while your constituancy donates to pay pal to support your "mission" and cross country tour, you ought to read your own drivel and tell me you'd pay money for it. Maybe have a wine tasting party to raise donations instead? I hear MD 20-20 is on sale at walmart nation wide. I hope I haven't digressed too far off track.,it my logical upbringing obstructing my impulse to completely insult you as you have us with your myriad of concocted bullshit that puts the national enquirer to shame., give it up.,apologize to your readers and get another job.
Tom October 28, 2013 10:48 pm (Pacific time)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=195188650665092&set=p.195188650665092&type=1&theater Your op-ed write breaking the law on his bike.
Bike Ouchies October 28, 2013 9:17 pm (Pacific time)
Well I guess if there were hundreds of calls to 911 about Alexian Lien's dangerous driving then he would be the one facing charges. But as all the evidence and truth shows, it's the other way around.
Danielle October 28, 2013 6:34 pm (Pacific time)
He hit you off your bike because he was trying to get away from you and your thug biker friends. You're a disgrace!
Danielle October 28, 2013 6:32 pm (Pacific time)
Pull out the keys so no one could be hit!? WTF? You really think ANYONE will half a brain is buying that? I don't think so. You were trying to get into the car to attach him.
Danielle. October 28, 2013 6:28 pm (Pacific time)
What a load of shit. It's almost laughable because the video itself shows how that idiot braked infront of his car, starting the whole thing. So your article is MUTE!
Lloyd October 28, 2013 1:50 pm (Pacific time)
Mr. Lien was scared in a situation where a majority of rational people would feel scared given the same set of circumstances. That is the point, and that is why the majority of people disagree with this article. Which is why none of your other "edgy" articles get responses, but the responses to this article is overwhelmingly negative.
No These Bikers October 28, 2013 1:41 pm (Pacific time)
Licenses should be revoked from these NY bikers.
JW October 28, 2013 12:50 pm (Pacific time)
This article is obviously biased. Tim King is a biker and is proud of the fact that he excessively speeds: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201653442754626&set=a.10201157266350526.1073741831.1135921890&type=3&theater
Lloyd October 28, 2013 11:37 am (Pacific time)
This is funny stuff, as if no person could post from different computers, or a Marine couldn't possibly find himself on an Army base. Brilliant logic, not surprised you guys could produce an article like this: "This is a different IP from the actual Daddy Fatsacks, I guess people have to pose as others to make their point? Pretty sad." "why does your IP trace to the Fort Huachuca, AZ army base? I know people out that way and there are no Marines, what gives? Are you a Marine poser?" No other article on the "Salem-News" front page has more than one comment. These guys are either desperately trolling for attention, irrational, or both.
An Internet troll is somebody who, often paid, trolls around in online comment sections representing some particular political cause. Tim King is an established journalist with many awards from both motorcycle groups and also mainstream groups like The Associated Press, Electronic Media Association, and even the Red Cross. Last year Tim was a keynote speaker in Baltimore in front of 3,000 people talking about his reports on war crimes in Sri Lanka. Tim has covered combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and was a Marine also. Furthermore, this is an Op-Ed, and it is grotesque to know that so many people endorse using a vehicle for human destruction just because somebody is scared that something "might" happen to them. Well something DID happen to the riders who were struck.
DevilDog0311 October 28, 2013 9:07 am (Pacific time)
Hi. I am a Marine and I just want everyone to know that this person Tim does not represent our Marine Corps. He is a disgrace to what our Corps believes. We protect the weak, not the thugs. I have shown the video to everyone in our platoon and every single one of my marines side with Lien. Again, this man Tim is a disgrace to our Marine Corps, and everyone read this should seperate between him and our Corps. Semper.
First, no single Marine represents the way the Corps feels at large about anything. Second, why does your IP trace to the Fort Huachuca, AZ army base? I know people out that way and there are no Marines, what gives? Are you a Marine poser?
idly curios, October 27, 2013 3:35 pm (Pacific time)
you didn't address my question.
beau gus johnson; October 27, 2013 3:00 pm (Pacific time)
sounds like the editor is in love with himself.,do you get paid for this stuff?
idly curios, October 27, 2013 2:53 pm (Pacific time)
is this a "for profit" web site?
Steve Moylett October 27, 2013 11:44 am (Pacific time)
Seems that the Judicial proceedings will be the final judge in this matter. I have been riding the same HD since the late 50's and have witnessed far more criminal behavior in the last few years by younger bikers. Since I was not a live witness to the above incident, and since most of us informed people realize the folly of jumping to conclusions, let the evidence come forward and be sorted out. What's happening in DC is far more important than this "comparatively" minor incident, so don't be overly distracted by it, nor the other distractions coming out of the Obama Cabal. America is in extreme danger.
Diana October 27, 2013 6:06 am (Pacific time)
Totally ridiculous! I think I am now dumber for reading this article
JFL October 26, 2013 11:47 pm (Pacific time)
What Tim King fails to reveal above is that he himself is a biker who regularly breaks the law and brags about it on Facebook. (See oi44.tinypic.com/20znsiw.jpg for a picture of Tim driving 145 mph on his bike.) That he does not disclose any of this in his Op-Ed should be a clear indicator to anyone who bothers to read this drivel that Tim (and presumably the rest of the "staff" here) have absolutely no journalistic integrity. Next, we have Tim's childish insults to those readers who were somehow able to read all of the above crap and take the time to post an opinion. All of these things I have pointed out reveal that "Salem-News.com" is really a two-bit operation that hopes to break out of its obscurity by resorting to trolling. The funny thing is that I haven't even attempted to rebut the Op-Ed's extremely flawed and bizarre reasoning. Maybe I'll do that if this comment makes it through the sensors.
Tim King is a racist October 26, 2013 9:41 pm (Pacific time)
It seems quite obvious Tim, through his racist exposure in the US Marines, is very much a racist himself.
Obvious? Salem-News.com has a long history of fighting racism, it is at the core of our existence, so much for obvious.
AS October 26, 2013 9:31 pm (Pacific time)
I am immediately boycotting Salem News because of stupid jerks like Tim King. Tim King - YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR POINT OF VIEW. YOU KNOW WHY ? THE TRUTH DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR POINT OF VIEW, A-HOLE. THE TRUTH IS THAT THESE MOTORCYCLIST FORCE ALEX LIEN TO FLEE AS THEY WERE STARTING TO POUND ON HIS VEHICLE. THE TRUTH DOES NOT NEED TO BE TWISTED FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL STUPID POINT OF VIEW. THE TRUTH DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR OPINION, AHOLE
Salem News is BIASED October 26, 2013 9:30 pm (Pacific time)
Read it and weep, even the mainstream reports that other than Lien, "There were no other injuries." I checked other sources as well, the woman and child were not assaulted, none of the allegations in these comments suggesting she was are accurate. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/bikers-suv-nyc/2906385/. i think the trash that are called editors at this joke of a "news" outlet are a bit biased. Don't they kind of seem like they are really rooting for things to turn out bad for Lien? ech, shameful that ppl let this garbage pass fro journalism. pathetic.
Impressed by your trolling October 26, 2013 9:27 pm (Pacific time)
Well, I"m glad that someone is monitoring this live. It def/ makes me feel that my op/ is heard. You can label the rational and reasonable arguments however you want. But i don't for a second that you are doing your cause (whatever it may be, bc it ain't journalism) irreparable harm. Biker, Blacks, Marines, Occupiers, Potheads...whatev. Your sad, SAD arguments are not going to convince any fence-riders. not one person who is logical and seeking the objective truth will view the evidence and consider all the facts and then listen to your babble and suddenly agree with your nonsense. You WILL however, convince otherwise un-involved civilians in this by making us side against loser, hype trolls like you and Tim King. You can call me a fascist or say I'm stereotyping etc etc. like, 97% of the public is disgusted with the thug bikers, with the corrupt cops, with the lying lawyers and now with your ilk....fake, lying, biased racists with a platform, but no sense of journalistic integrity.
Al October 26, 2013 9:26 pm (Pacific time)
Tim King, you're a jackass. Alex Lien was forced to flee as the motorcyclist was attacking him BEFORE he run over the bike that intentionally blocked his way.
I stated in the article that the comments need to be on topic and not just one big string of insults. I'm going to stop approving your mindless insults, so knock it off.
LYIN BIKER THUG October 26, 2013 9:21 pm (Pacific time)
Ugh, Tim King and the editors are vile, ignorant trolling racists. I'm uessing they have a beef with Asians bc they live on the west coast.
Salem-News.com is an anti-racism Website. Your charges are absurd and profoundly wrong Mr. Lien's home country is the communist refuge of war criminals like Pol Pot, are you pro-Genocide? Are you racist against Cambodians?
Reply to my comment October 26, 2013 8:56 pm (Pacific time)
Hey Tim, you seem very proud of your antagonistic sensationalism and are not at all embarrassed by your shameful pandering to the lowest common denominator. If you are not a coward, which it seems you are despite your resume, you can reply to me and i'll bet i can take you step by step through your flawed, biased "logic" and school you on exactly why you sound like a grade a F-tard. I think there has to be ppl laughing at you in your community (not that you have the empathy to care). i certainly hope the Internet remembers your silly antics and pegs you for the bottom-feeding muckraker you are.
You know, you and the rest of these holier than thou types show so much about yourselves by condemning my point of view, you sound like a fascist who insists that everything is done in a certain way that all of the closed-minded brethren can feel like their fearful lifestyles are the only way to go. Well there is more to life than that, I am simply looking at it from another point of view, deal with it. Your insults are all self-descriptions for your own weaknesses and it is very clear that you have your share.
Matt Johnson October 26, 2013 8:48 pm (Pacific time)
What a group of threatening pansies this article has collected, they sound like they would be scared of their own shadow, yet keyboard bravery abounds, very entertaining! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBNP5kjLdmw
From: Request for EVIDENCE for NYC SUV runs over bikers incident. What happened BEFORE video?
Truthful Biker October 26, 2013 8:31 pm (Pacific time)
Tim King is a breath of fresh air.
Teve October 26, 2013 1:37 pm (Pacific time)
It's likely this op ed was intended to gain new readers through this controversial piece. The only other reason is if Tim firmly believes that intimidation and law breaking are perfectly acceptable, as long as it's ONLY by bikers (gangs or not). been said before, but I would have done the same as mr lien every day of the week.
New York SUV driver October 26, 2013 12:33 pm (Pacific time)
As some one who frequently drives on that road and has witnessed these bikers activities previously, I could not disagree more with your "analysis". Nor it appears, do the NYPD or the Manhattan DA's office who have so far elected not to charge the RR driver with any crime and appear to believe the driver acted in self defense. Given subsequent events, the drivers fears appear completely justified. It should also be pointed out that almost all the bikers charged have prior criminal records as does the biker who was run over. Had that biker been complying with the law, he would not have even been there. This op-ed appears extremely biased against the driver, describing him as a "one per center" without any supporting evidence.
John S. October 26, 2013 12:27 pm (Pacific time)
TIm King is a moron and needs to be fired. While I agreed with your writing and reporting on the Israel and Palestine issue in the past... this time, you are taking your contrarian habit too far. Have you seen other videos on line of the group's practice? the same rider cam recorded outrageous behavior and disregard for other road-users safety. Mr. King, you need to retract this article and apologize. You are wrong this time. I have biker friends but if I did not know them and fifty, or eighty of them gang up on me and my wife on the road... I'd be scared and would possibly do the same thing Lien has done. Retract this article and apologize.
Real man with a job October 26, 2013 11:34 am (Pacific time)
The totality of the circumstances is what counts in the end. What the bikers are doing is criminal from the begining. Shutting down traffic and gathering without a permit. In pryor years, these bikers have pulled and beaten other drivers from their cars, as evidenced from the videos. It doesn't matter how glorious your writing abilities are here Tim. The Bikers are criminals end of story. They started the day looking for trouble as evidenced by their criminal behavoir. You might hate and despise Americans and that's Okay, but your self promoting propaganda does little more than help to prove one thing. Lien was justified in his actions. Every biker arrested, or run over that day appear to have exstensive criminal records. I don't call foul and I don't live behind rose colored glasses. I call it what it is. A band of biker thugs who got what was coming to them, and it they end up in my path in a simalar manner will most likely suffer the same fate. I love my family and my SUV and I will not hesitatae to flea the area at any cost to save my family.
Anonymous October 26, 2013 7:59 am (Pacific time)
Wow this is just plain stupid, you should feel ashamed for wrting something like this.
Sum Ting Wong October 26, 2013 7:28 am (Pacific time)
If one biker is slashing your tire and another one is punching the rear window and you are surrounded by 20 more friendlies, what would you do?
Anonymous October 26, 2013 5:49 am (Pacific time)
Tim, you've had a good,long career; don't end it by becoming an Internet troll as you did in this article.
Anonymous October 26, 2013 4:01 am (Pacific time)
Were you on bath salt when you watched the video and wrote this garbage? Maybe PCP?
Anonymous October 26, 2013 1:28 am (Pacific time)
This can't be a serious article. Illegally stopping traffic would become de facto false imprisonment and I would have used my vehicle to push through anyone trying to trap me no matter what their reason.
Steve from Austin October 26, 2013 1:20 am (Pacific time)
Obviously, the OP really needs the attention. Of course this isn't his true opinion. Don't fall for this nonsense. Citing a reference from the South China Post (Hong Kong)? Yeah, okay...
maggie October 26, 2013 12:02 am (Pacific time)
To the writer: Are you a human being? Oh sorry, you are not, you are a rider.
seriously? October 25, 2013 11:58 pm (Pacific time)
"Think about where this took place.New York City is the most progressive and cutting edge city in America. I was riding through New York City myself just one day prior to this large scale ride. I actually think that That The Big Apple should be glad these bikers loosely riding under the banner of Hollywood Stuntz, only go out and do this once a year.The bottom line from what I can tell, is that all of the drivers on this section of roadway had pulled over and were working with the motorcycle riders; allowing them room. Only Alexian Lien refused and stayed in the center lane, making it impossible for the riders to proceed. He should be arrested and charged with a number of crimes, and he should have followed the lead of the other drivers."
Jim October 25, 2013 11:50 pm (Pacific time)
So what you were biking in NYC the day before this incident happened? Try living in the Bronx or East Harlem where these bikers do this on a daily basis running on sidewalks or cutting you off in your car. They've been doing this for years! We're sick of it. Its obvious you have some anti-asian sentiment because if this had happened to you .. you would run them over also and claimed self-defense. The NYPD does not agree with you and that is why Alex is not charged. You're wrong.
John October 25, 2013 11:34 pm (Pacific time)
When a pack of people you don't know surround you and start slashing your tires, it is reasonable to kill your way out. If the young man had crushed twenty of the bikers, they might not have chased him. His only mistake was not starting to crunch them up just before the tire slashing. The rest of the traveling public have learned from that mistake.
jo October 25, 2013 11:15 pm (Pacific time)
You have a tendency to look at issues in a different light? In the light of an ill informed MORON. This op-ed author is a fool.
I HATE stupid jarhead October 25, 2013 10:15 pm (Pacific time)
get your FACTS straight before you published something stupid like this.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 9:57 pm (Pacific time)
where did you get your title from a fleamarquet
Yes it was the Acme Flea Market of Journalism, you know the place?
Fred Campbell October 25, 2013 9:32 pm (Pacific time)
Obviously you know nothing about the law or common sense, what gave the cycle clowns the right to block traffic to "perform" stunts anyhow...illigal!! The video clearly shows the biker "brake checking" the SUV, which is harassment. I think you shot yourself in the foot with this article.. The cyclists deserved what they got!!
andy r. October 25, 2013 8:42 pm (Pacific time)
"i respect your right to have your own opinion. However, you have lost all credibility as a journalist with this article. You supposedly have 25 years of experience, and have even gone into a war ridden country in order to report news. But all of that goes to waste, with you complete inept reporting on this story. I thought a journalist was suppose to provide unbiased articles, whether they be controversial or not. This is clearly not that. It sad, that this is what news has deteriotated to in this country. This is not what all west coast individuals feel or think, so please people, do not think that we all believe what this article has stated." ... as stated in another comment ... i cant say it any better!!!!!
Andy, this is apparently the only article online of its nature, I am looking at it from the other side, and for goodness sake it is an Op-Ed, simply my opinion. You are one of dozens of people who do not agree, that is fine, but please leave room for a different perspective, that is the point.
rustygh October 25, 2013 8:22 pm (Pacific time)
When I first saw this I watched many of the videos. It was pretty obvious these thug bikers were not your average bikers. They broke on average six laws each, each minute of video. There came a point I felt jay colostomy bag meezee was probably the dumbest guy on the planet. Tim King, you just took his seat.
NL October 25, 2013 7:43 pm (Pacific time)
I respect your right to have your own opinion. However, you have lost all credibility as a journalist with this article. You supposedly have 25 years of experience, and have even gone into a war ridden country in order to report news. But all of that goes to waste, with you complete inept reporting on this story. I thought a journalist was suppose to provide unbiased articles, whether they be controversial or not. This is clearly not that. It sad, that this is what news has deteriotated to in this country. This is not what all west coast individuals feel or think, so please people, do not think that we all believe what this article has stated.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 7:25 pm (Pacific time)
Who is the idiot who wrote this? I ride a bike and big ride or not. We never intentionally stop cagers
StupidU October 25, 2013 7:22 pm (Pacific time)
you should be fired for wring this stupid articles.If i am SUV driver, I will run over you guys again and again and again......
JM October 25, 2013 7:05 pm (Pacific time)
If only Lien had a gun
Wasn't beaten until he used the SUV? October 25, 2013 7:03 pm (Pacific time)
"He wasn't beaten until he chose to use his SUV over. " Well, no. He wasn't beaten the first time because he choose to use his SUV. He got eventually beaten because he was forced to stop and choose to remain still instead of driving over the thugs in reverse, which I think is what he should have done. Look at the people arrested - most of them had 10+ prior arrest and you still think they were not going to beat him when he stop for the first time? Then why the heck slash his tires and try break front passenger window? You be my guest but I'm not counting on these people not going to beat anybody under the same circumstainces.
Rick October 25, 2013 6:45 pm (Pacific time)
Can't expect liberal media to spin any facts, that doesn't pay their check. This group has shown their true colors. They don't care about others on the road when they are on it and believe they own it. Sad that you stick your head in the sand and ignore facts.
Andrew October 25, 2013 6:35 pm (Pacific time)
If Lien got arrested for whatever reason, you will be the next to be beaten by those "Friendly" motorist.
He wasn't beaten until he chose to use his SUV over.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 6:30 pm (Pacific time)
I would drove over them... Back up... Put it on 4x4... And do it again!!! The only difference would had been once that helmet came thru my window I would had empty out my .45 ...imminent fear of my life would made me use a 6 mags in my glove box!!!
Timcat100 October 25, 2013 6:28 pm (Pacific time)
You expect us to buy this...
No we won't publish your profane attack, better luck next time,or not.
K Robinson October 25, 2013 6:21 pm (Pacific time)
& ps 1% lmfao expensive SUV lmao the person who wrote this must be on welfare that an average human being is now a rich evil guy, they are lucky it wasn't me they'd be more than injured surrounding my car and short stopping in front to instigate then getting off their bikes and coming towards my car that my daughters in yeah they are getting shot point blank
Range Rover Owner October 25, 2013 6:21 pm (Pacific time)
"Does having a baby in your Ranger SUV give you a right to kill?" Yes. Yes, he does.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 6:19 pm (Pacific time)
"Does having a baby in your Ranger SUV give you a right to kill?" Yes. Yes, he does.
K Robinson October 25, 2013 6:18 pm (Pacific time)
Having a baby in your car and being surrounded by animals gives u the right to kill, he didn't have a right he had a duty ! He didn't do enough because they still got to do what they would have done breaking windows endangering the lives of his family members.
JT October 25, 2013 6:17 pm (Pacific time)
Tim King, you are an idiot.
You talk to your mother with that mouth?
LAUGH OUT LOUD October 25, 2013 5:53 pm (Pacific time)
I can't even F*CKING believe your stance on this whole situation. If you did just a LITTLE more research you would see that the bikers were harassing other people earlier in the day as well and pretty much breaking every traffic law there is possible. Please don't play the prejudice card on how Americans feel about bikers. You're a joke for a journalist. Please send me some money via PayPal and go ahead and proceed to hang yourself.
Thank you so much.
Seriously? October 25, 2013 5:52 pm (Pacific time)
Lien should have pulled over to let them pass? Let's see -- Cruz, who deliberately brake-checked the SUVs in order to force it to stop, did not even have a motorcycle license so he had no right to be on the road in the first place. Trying to block the part of the highway to perform stunts is illegal, period. If you want to do that legally the you go and apply for a permit which, by the way, was denied. Let me understand this -- you're suggesting that a guy who drove a registered vehicle and had every right to be on the road should have yielded to a bunch of thugs trying to engage in illegal activities some of which had not right to even be on the road in the first place? I'm sorry but everybody who yielded to these bikers simply became part of the problem, not the solution. When Lien stop for the first time they began slashing his tires, attacking his vehicle and trying to break a front passenger side window -- far from "we just wanted to talk" bullshit they were spreading. Heck if I'm with my family and you surround my car and being slashing my tires -- I'm gonna driver over you too! What Lien did is precisely what any person should have done in the same situation.
Angry NYCer October 25, 2013 5:43 pm (Pacific time)
You are fucking delusional. There is no other way to explain it. Only a truly delusional moron could look at the video evidence and come to the conclusion you came too. Seek mental help. Immediately
I think you are a sad little man who loves to scream your opinion at people all day long.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 5:41 pm (Pacific time)
The facts in that article are soooo screwed up. Do you believe the bullshit you write or is it just a job to you?
Anonymous October 25, 2013 5:35 pm (Pacific time)
From this article…" They apparently were attempting to clear a section of roadway in order to perform stunts on their motorcycles." This is admission that they were performing an illegal act the put motorists in danger and proof of the guild that will put them in prison, hopefully the hospital ward.
Smart Guy October 25, 2013 5:32 pm (Pacific time)
You just can't fix stupid. Sorry to say that you are in the stupid camp.
Wow, from a self-proclaimed smart guy.
Timcat100 October 25, 2013 5:30 pm (Pacific time)
When I first saw the video I was angry the maddest I have every been and I have been watching the jerks on these bike years before this. My opinion was instant, my hatered towards the bikes will never change no matter how long I live. I want to see every one involved that day in jail for life. This article that I am replying to here will never fly it just pissed me more off. Nice try trying to paint a picture of Lien being the bad guy dream on, and yes if it was me I would have backed up for more.
Harry October 25, 2013 5:29 pm (Pacific time)
I am truly amazed that ANY news organization would publish such tripe. Obviously, Mr. King has never been around motorcycles OR motorcyclists. He obviously doesn't understand the difference between these common street thugs and real bikers. All one has to do is a simple YOUTUBE search for "Ride of the Century" and you can see how these street thugs act. They are NOT bikers and should NOT be referenced as such.
Anonymous October 25, 2013 5:25 pm (Pacific time)
Can you all say "Doo-Doo" boys and girls? I knew you could. :-)
Kate0508 October 25, 2013 5:21 pm (Pacific time)
Comment regarding Motorcycle Gang attacking SUV family: Have you not seen the video tapes that the gang members themselves taped? Are you not aware that the gang members who have been arrested have prior records? This is not about a law-abiding motorcycle club out for a Sunday Drive. What planet do you come from??? What's wrong with the comment made by the news stations / newspapers / media / etc. of putting yourself in the place of the SUV driver with your child in a vehicle and having a horrific gang banging on your vehicle windows with their helmets and slashing your tires". In the article, you admit that the SUV driver acted out of FEAR!!! Who wouldn't be afraid when being attacked by a horrific gang? -- Not a motorcycle club -- A Gang of Thugs! --- There are NUMEROUS video tapes showing that the gang member that was run over and in the hospital was SLASHING THE TIRES of the SUV -- That gang member put himself in the way of the SUF driver who was in FEAR for his life and the lives of his wife and two-year daughter. What kind of reporter are you? Are you trying to create sensationalism? Your brain must be very small if you think this incident is about motorcycle clubs -- that proves that it is you who thinks law-abiding motorcycle members are THUGS because the incident has nothing to do with a motorcycle club -- you interpreted it that way. I believe you feel the same way as 99.9% of the people and you are just trying to attract attention to yourself by stating otherwise because that's the only way you can get people to read your articles? You're an idiot!
Motorcyclist anonymous October 25, 2013 5:20 pm (Pacific time)
This article is typical of a thugs way to look at things. " lien should have just pulled over and watched the show ". How ridiculously preposterous!!! He was on a HIGHWAY! They surrounded his vehicle, because he wouldn't comply with their mob mentality. They wanted the highway to themselves. Lien had no obligation to stop for those hoodlums, as they had no right to impede his travel. I'm sure some of the folks involved in that ride were innocent bikers just along for the ride. I would be willing to bet the innocent ones were toward the back of the pack though. I have been on multiple group rides, on my sport bike as well as my cruiser, and you can't control people. When others rode like thugs, I hung back. I am 100% in liens corner, as a biker, as a parent, and as a general public viewing the " evidence " ( YouTube videos of said incident )
Jim October 25, 2013 5:11 pm (Pacific time)
Dear Tim King,
Dear Jim, I was in NYC one day before this happened, riding my motorcycle, this land is our land you know?
Anonymous October 25, 2013 5:10 pm (Pacific time)
IS THIS FOR REAL!??!?!?! holy shit the ignorance.
Christopher Nicholson October 25, 2013 5:10 pm (Pacific time)
How dare you imply that he should have pulled over to the side of the road? How dare you? Who the hell do you think you and your low-class rider friends are? I will never just pull over and let filth like these bikers take over the road that I helped pay for and they probably did not. Again, how *dare* you? "Of course privilege exists for men like 33-year old Alexian Lien." Absolutely. The privilege of using the roads that he pays for, that is. Lien is absolutely a more worthy person than your low-class biker friends. No argument from me!
Maggie October 25, 2013 5:02 pm (Pacific time)
This article must be a joke…it has to be.
Terminator October 25, 2013 4:54 pm (Pacific time)
How much did Gloria Allred pay you guys to write this?
Gypsy Rider October 25, 2013 4:50 pm (Pacific time)
As a motorcyclist myself i have to say that this whole article is bullshit. There is no doubt in my mind that that group of crotch rocket riding fools were groupthink locked wannabe badasses. I have never known a group of sportbike riders who were worth a crap. If you even cared enough to look at their past videos and the rest of the videos you would have seen a group of idiots fc'n with cagers for the hell of it
Danilo Mancinelli October 25, 2013 4:50 pm (Pacific time)
All I will say after reading this is LMAO! I had a headache all day until I read this.. now it's gone! Thanks, Tim!
Viriato October 25, 2013 4:49 pm (Pacific time)
Is this satire?
Mark from Portland October 25, 2013 12:25 pm (Pacific time)
Thanks for presenting the other side of the story that went largely unreported. Namely the humananity of the "bikers." It definitely felt like the media was reporting from the perspective of having seen too many B rated biker movies. This now sets a dangerous precedent that an impatient motorist can rear end a motorcyclist and get away scot free. What if my engine cuts out on the highway, am I now fair game for for any impatient SUV driver who can't be bothered to reduce his speed or suddenly "feels threatened?"
Thanks for your sane comment Mark.
LOLz@You October 25, 2013 8:32 am (Pacific time)
This article should be taken down or at least flagged as a Trash Tabloid, that way readers know what they are getting into when reading things here.
Al Barker October 25, 2013 7:03 am (Pacific time)
HAHAHAHAHA!!! I almost did not believe this article existed. What a load of cra*. I will say this much, you put a smile on my face. I am going to book mark this page so I can return and read it again and again. I expect this comment will not make it to the comments section of the article but hey, at least you will know that you made one person (likely a lot more) laugh out loud with this.
Daddy Fatsacks October 25, 2013 6:39 am (Pacific time)
Debating you guys would be silly. Speaking reasonably with unreasonable people is a waste of time. It made you "sad" that I posted from the public library. Really? Really? Awfully sensitive guys up there in Oregon.
daddy fatsakcs October 23, 2013 9:35 pm (Pacific time)
homo say waaaaaat? Mr. King, are you going to publish my respectful comment.....
EDITOR: Hey fatsakcs, this is NOT Mr. King. Mr. King is not the only editor. All comments of a despicable nature are deleted and will continue to be deleted. If you would like to debate Tim King, please send an email to his attention at firstname.lastname@example.com. Thanks.
Anonymous October 23, 2013 8:38 am (Pacific time)
Let me ask Mr. Tim King a simple hypothetical question: In the event that a group of people engaged in dangerous illegal activities completely surrounds a vehicle and begins violently attacking it, and the only way to escape is to drive off and run over some of the attackers, should the driver of the vehicle being attacked have the right to do so?
Luke Easter October 22, 2013 6:10 pm (Pacific time)
That's not Cause & Effect, that is HATRED of one Race against another. Jealousy because the Jews owned and/or controlled most of the profitable business & the Germans couldn't compete fairly. Further, Jews were docile and Hitler knew he could easily overrun them without resistance. Hitler was a coward, hence his attack of defenseless Poland. That Cause & Effect was not on behalf of Jews it was on behalf of being Bullied by a Racist. The bikers on the other hand put themselves, "Above The Law" set in motion for the safety/security on the nation as a whole & not just cyclists. They had a choice, the Jews did not.
LanceThruster October 22, 2013 2:26 pm (Pacific time)
Thanks for the background info, Tim. Seems to be a little more to the story than I was previously aware of. I guess the analogy would be thinking it would be right to 'hip-check' any rider/vehicle breaking the speed limit. Fear for your safety is one thing, but proportional response also comes into play.
Lloyd October 22, 2013 1:43 pm (Pacific time)
Freedom is not immunity to violate the rights of others. If, hypothetically, those motorcyclists had surrounded and harassed a car containing the US President the way they harassed Lien, they would have been grabbed by the Secret Service immediately and faced long prison terms. Every citizen deserves the same protection from random harassment. Those motorcyclists don't have the right to harass and falsely imprison anyone. The relevant laws should be enforced to deal with this kind of behavior.
Dan October 22, 2013 12:59 pm (Pacific time)
Your article presents the premise that Lien should be charged with vehicular manslaughter. In that context, I think the only question that matters is the following: - Is there evidence to suggest that Lien should have reasonably feared for the safety of himself or his family at the moment when he ran over Mieses? I don't think there is publicly available 100% conclusive evidence to say either way. However, is some evidence that suggests it was reasonable to be fearful of safety: 1) The bikers deliberately stopped his vehicle in the middle of the highway. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1ANevQ03E - Deliberate Slow-down @ 0:26 2) The bikers slashed Lien's tires and hit his vehicle right before he ran over Mieses. Source: Several major news outlets report that the police said this. Eg: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/us/bikers-attack-video/ "… on Manhattan's West Side Highway struck a motorcycle, which had slowed in front of his SUV. This cyclist was slightly injured. When Alexian Lien, the SUV driver, pulled to a stop, other bikers surrounded the vehicle, hit it and spiked its tires, police said". Lien then pulled away, plowing into three more bikers, including Edwin Mieses, who was critically injured." I suppose you can argue that these media sources are biased, which is the point of the article - but can you argue that they are willfully mis-representing *facts*? Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1ANevQ03E - Tire comes off @ 1:51 - Deliberate Slow-down @ 0:26 - I suppose one could argue that the tire was damaged by running over a motorcycle. Possible, but unlikely in my opinion. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfHBKzj5wuU - See 0:08 where someone appears to be punching the driver-side of the vehicle or at least making a threatening motion. I would agree that the video is extremely grainy, and doesn't conclusively show this. 3) The Liens made several 911 calls Source: Several major news outlets report this. Eg: http://abcnews.go.com/US/suv-driver-attacked-motorcyclists-wife-faced-life-threatening/story?id=20456813 "The couple's fear was evident in Ng's 911 call from inside the Range Rover, according to NYPD Deputy Commissioner John McCarthy, who said that the tenor and number of her calls proved how 'terrified' they were in the face of the group of bikers." - I acknowledge that these reports don't say whether the calls were made before or after running over Mieses. But I'm sure police have the timeline. 4) The bikers completely surrounded his vehicle, including physically blocking his escape route. It is reasonable to expect a person to be fearful when being trapped, and there really is no lawful reason for the bikers to attempt to confine Lien at this point. 5) The police haven't charged Lien (yet). They probably have access to more evidence (such as the timing of the 911 calls) than we have, so I think it is reasonable to assume they have reviewed it all and don't think there was any crime committed. Unless you want to go for conspiracy-type theories like he has connections in the police force so they're ignoring evidence in such a publicly advertised incident. Now to be fair, there is a piece of evidence that suggests Lien should NOT have felt threatened: a) At 00:56 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz1ANevQ03E, the bikers appear to be turning away from the scene right before Lien runs over Mieses. Hard to say for sure, since this is only seconds and we can't tell for sure what else is going on. So while there is no publicly available 100% conclusive evidence to say whether Lien should have reasonably felt threatened, the evidence *appears* to weigh in his favor. This, more than anything else is why I think the general public and major media outlets side with him. I can buy the argument that major media outlets should not draw such a forgone conclusion about Lien's innocence. However, I would also argue that your article should not conclusively declare his guilt. The most you can say is that there is inconclusive evidence about whether he was reasonable to feel threatened.
John October 22, 2013 12:23 pm (Pacific time)
"Right and in Nazi Germany if you just weren't born a Jew then you had no problems with the law, as long as you idolized Hitler and played the game. My point is that just because it is a "law" means little in some cases, the law of man is fallible, it is imperfect" Traffic laws that forbid mobs on motorcycles to illegally commandeer entire roads and harass motorists are comparable to anti-Semitic laws in Nazi Germany. Does this make sense to anyone else? This "journalist" is irrational because he chooses very superficial reasons to align himself with the perpetrators in this case. They ride motorcycles, so does he. The victim works in the finance industry, he's part of the "Occupy" movement. The bikers are unemployment check collecting drug dealers with illegal weapons charges. He's a marijuana activist. That's just ridiculous. Should all car drivers support a bunch of a**holes driving cars harassing people? Do all government employees (including military) automatically have strikes against them because of the US government's misdeeds? Trayvon Martin was a marijuana dealer, got into a lot of fights, and was by all accounts and exponent of the "gangsta" culture. He had much in common with the black/Hispanic, violent, drug dealing bikers that attacked Mr. Lien. But rational people with integrity aren't prejudiced by superficial factors so easily. On that night, Trayvon was just an unarmed 160 lb. high school kid harassed by an armed 200 lb. adult who should have known better. On that day, Lien was just a guy, with an infant child, harassed by a mob that should have known better. A person with integrity can judge these events separately for what they are. The backgrounds of the parties involved are only relevant as a secondary indicator to their character. Zimmerman was a lifelong coward who used guns to compensate for his own inadequacies. Since the trial, he has robbed and assaulted his own wife and father-in-law, while threatening them with a gun. And the violent mob that attacked Lien turned out to be mostly drug dealers receiving unemployment checks, owning illegal weapons, riding with revoked motor licenses. And the author here is just that: a narrow minded, motorcycling, Occupy & marijuana activist who cannot look past superficial similarities to fairly assess any given situation. And he hates wealthy people, or anyone who worked hard enough in school to get a high paying office job. That's why the Occupy movement was a failure: it was not organized by rational people who had intellectual integrity. Zimmerman is scum. The motorcyclists that harassed Lien are scum. Most people can see that, no matter how many irrational, agenda driven activists try to distort the truth for their silly pet causes.
Luke Easter October 22, 2013 11:09 am (Pacific time)
The Principle of Cause and Effect:
Right and in Nazi Germany if you just weren't born a Jew then you had no problems with the law, as long as you idolized Hitler and played the game. My point is that just because it is a "law" means little in some cases, the law of man is fallible, it is imperfect, but thanks for your comment and for sharing your thoughts!
Jon October 22, 2013 9:11 am (Pacific time)
Wow. Really? So when motorcyclists get on the road, you expect everyone to pull over for them? They demand respect for themselves on the road, yet, they cannot even respect the cars around them, and they cannot respect the laws of the land? Yet, we should respect the motorcyclists? They aren't the president, they are just another person on the road. Doesn't matter if you are a car or a motorcycle, they do not command some respect to where everyone but them has to pull over to the side of the road. And they weren't violent until he fleed from the scene? Apparently you have not watched any of the videos prior to the incident. Breaking laws, riding on sidewalks, riding on the wrong side of the road, running red lights. Hell, they even swarm a Toyota Prius, banging on his car too. And the motorcyclists are trying to play victim? Bullshit. If Alexian was really out to hurt people, then there easily would have been more carnage. These motorcyclists are pathetic. They cause a scene, and when the driver feels he is in danger, you fault him for trying to protect his family? Yeah, right. Because obviously he should have stayed and gotten his ass kicked right there instead of trying to get away. You are only a liar if you think you would have done otherwise.
Lloyd October 22, 2013 8:35 am (Pacific time)
This website was started by Tim King, the author of this article. This article has probably drawn more clicks to this site. Here is some other material posted on this site: "...holds awards from the National Coalition of Motorcyclists, the Oregon Confederation of Motorcycle Clubs" "Occupy Marines - Fighting For Our Country - Not the 1%" "Cannabis De-Classified - The Whole Truth and Nothing But."
Andrew October 22, 2013 8:14 am (Pacific time)
If someone takes their vehicle out with the INTENT to break any laws which don't suit them and with NO RESPECT for people's safety, including their own, they should not go crying to their girlfriend just because by some unpredictable sequence of events causes them to get hurt (or killed). Lien had no such intent. Mieses did.
nepawoods October 22, 2013 7:35 am (Pacific time)
The author asks "Do you know that the riders were all criminals?" They were all participating as part of a group in illegal activities that day. Taking over roads to perform stunts is a crime. Yes, they are all criminals.
John October 22, 2013 6:05 am (Pacific time)
That was a response to an earlier comment stating that the woman was holding the child. Nobody needs to grasp straws, not when a driver chooses fear and violence the way this man did.. Nobody had a right to do that, sorry. So when the car had been stopped, the tires had been slashed, the windows had been smashed in, and the husband dragged outside and beaten, your priority is to reproach the mother for unstrapping the baby from the car seat and holding her? Does anyone else take this guy seriously? And it's true, Lien reacted with fear and violence. Trayvon did too. The loser sympathizers argue: Trayvon had no right to react with fear and violence towards a 200+ lb stranger man stalking and confronting him at night. Most reasonable people ask, instead, what that loser with a gun was doing stalking the boy who had no weapons or criminal equipment on his person whatsoever? Most reasonable people ask, what those violent drug dealers were doing falsely imprisoning that family's SUV? Did Trayvon and Lien react out of fear? Yes. But if anyone deserved violence on those two occasions, it was the aggressor(s), not the people who had been harassed. Creepy losers shouldn't stalk people. Drug dealers with illegal weapons charges shouldn't falsely imprison family vehicles. Period.
Daddy Fatsacks October 22, 2013 6:05 am (Pacific time)
Johnny October (if that is who you really are!)
This is a different IP from the actual Daddy Fatsacks, I guess people have to pose as others to make their point? Pretty sad.
Gerhard October 22, 2013 3:27 am (Pacific time)
Windshield safety glass has a plastic backing but side windows do not. I have seen them shatter, they are safety glass in that they will not break into shards likely to cut someone, but I wonder how many bystanders would know that.
I only know that after all of the carnage - and the beating, that the man was alive and his life was not terminated, the riders who harmed him did not kill him, therefore I don't think that was ever their intent. I think the riders messed up and they violated the law, but I think all drivers do this in varying degrees every day. I am not sure what the right answers are, I just think Mr. Lien should have perhaps tried something else,
John October 21, 2013 9:00 pm (Pacific time)
This country controls 20% of the world's GDP, yet has so many problems because there are so many aggressive a**holes here who can't leave other people alone. With 20% of the world's GDP, Americans should enjoy a quality of life similar to Switzerland/Monaco/etc. Even moreso. Instead, it has s***holes like Detroit, an unresolvable national debt, because there is a culture of a**hole aggressiveness and incompetence. The government is $17 trillion in debt (and that's just official debt), places like Detroit and parts of Florida are rotting, and they spend ~$3 trillion on an a**hole, aggressive, incompetent war with Iraq over non-existent weapons of mass destruction. The common thread in every problematic news headline in this country is a**hole aggressiveness, which for some reason is tolerated, even encouraged here. Without that crap, big fiascos like Iraq, and small ones like Trayvon, Lien, etc., could have been avoided. The next time some bulls*** shows up on the news, people should just ask, "Which aggressive a**hole started all this s***?"
John October 21, 2013 8:22 pm (Pacific time)
The parallels between this case and the Trayvon Martin case speak volumes on the disgusting attitudes prevalent in this country. 1) The preoccupation with race and class. It was irrelevant that Trayvon was a black high school kid who smoked weed and got in school yard fights. It was irrelevant Zimmerman was an underachieving, wannabe cop. It is irrelevant that Lien is an Asian finance professional. It is irrelevant the bikers arrested are mostly black/Hispanic drug dealers with weapons and violent crime charges. What matters is that an unknown 200+ lb man with a gun decided to stalk a 160 lb high school kid with a drink and candy. What matters is, a mob of motorcyclists decided to ILLEGALLY surround, break check, and falsely imprison a man's family, which included a 2 year old. Did Trayvon act out of fear and anger? Did Mr. Lien? Yes, in both cases. The first tried to incapacitate a strange, 200 lb. man stalking him. The latter tried to escape false imprisonment, running over some of the motorcyclists obstructing his path. What it comes down to is: Zimmerman should have left Trayvon alone. The bikers should have left Lien alone. All of this crap could have been avoided if they just stopped their a**hole aggressiveness and left other people alone. In each case, the conflicts were instigated by losers; grown men with nothing better to do. Zimmerman is an underachieving loser, and a coward who needed to carry a gun to compensate for his inadequacies (this should be obvious to everyone, even his supporters). The drug dealing, unemployment check beneficiary motorcyclists are losers (self explanatory). And most (not all) of the sympathizers supporting these people are losers. At best, they are misguided.
John October 21, 2013 6:20 pm (Pacific time)
The irony of this article is apparently lost upon its own writer, on so many levels. 1) His bio seems to claim he's a legitimate journalist, but the article and his subsequent comments indicate very little research on the subject matter. This is, at best, irresponsible journalism. 2) He judges the victim to be at fault, because that man is a "Chinese 1%er banker". Mr. Lien may actually be an American citizen for all we know, but who cares about facts. And why is the victim's nationality/ethnicity even relevant in this case? The author has blanket hostility towards Chinese people, wealthy people, and people who work in the finance industry. This author served in the Marines. Not just in the US government, but the military. Given all the negative things blamed on the US government, and its military, he might have learned something about unjustified blanket hostilities. Oh, that guy got beat up by a mob, but he was just an inefficient, overpaid government worker. He deserved to get his ass kicked. Oh, that guy was a Marine. The US military does a lot of questionable things, he deserved to be assaulted by violent drug dealers on motorcycles. That make sense to anyone? All the underachievers hating on Mr. Lien for being a successful, finance professional are ridiculous. Imagine, some people study hard enough in school to land a boring job sitting in an office all day, enduring a monotonous existence for a bigger paycheck. Anyone think it's fun studying computer engineering applied to finance (Mr. Lien's background)? Reality check: it's boring as crap. Don't work hard in school, do physical labor instead. Nothing wrong with that. Some trades pay very well, like plumbing. Or become a drug dealer on an unemployment check, like a lot of those bikers. But don't imply the victim here deserved to be beaten by a mob, because he made the sacrifices to get where he is today. Don't imply that some random finance professional is responsible for international banking fraud. The criminals who do that stuff have heavily armed security teams that would never have allowed this biker beating to happen in the first place, or did that never occur to any of you biker sympathizers? A manager at the DMV is not responsible for the US government's misdeeds on grounds of being a government worker. A captain in the Marines is not responsible for by default responsible for the entire US military's misdeeds. Don't be ignorant.
Daddy Fatsacks October 21, 2013 4:36 pm (Pacific time)
To those who say that Lien's background has nothing to do with this, I say, "have you seen the video Lien made, where he is rapping 'gonna strap in my baby, strap on my SIV, gonna run down a peacemaker, gonna make me so ha-ha-py!"??
Daddy Fatsacks October 21, 2013 4:34 pm (Pacific time)
At last! An editorial by someone who opposes violence!
Daddy Fatsacks October 21, 2013 4:33 pm (Pacific time)
Lien should have his child taken away and put in foster care, since he did not have her baby seat belt buckled. Or does anyone have information to the contrary? I'm just an unbiased person observing from above.
Anonymous October 21, 2013 4:31 pm (Pacific time)
Biker Tim writes "if they would have intended her harm then she would have been harmed I believe if they would have intended her harm then she would have been harmed I believe" Whether they actually intended her harm or not is irrelevant. What they did intend was for the vehicle occupants to fear for their lives. They succeeded, and they are 100% responsible for the results of the fear they deliberately created.
Daddy Fatsacks October 21, 2013 4:30 pm (Pacific time)
Hey, those bikers were just a part of the "Occupy" movement. They were occupying the highway. Lien was just prejudiced against them because they were members of a different socio-economic class.
Anonymous October 21, 2013 4:23 pm (Pacific time)
"Lien endangered his wife and child. he could have pulled over for a few minutes and watched the riders perform stunts." And the riders could have obeyed the traffic laws, which serve the purpose of preventing the chaos that ensued. But you probably thought the laws are just meant to spoil the riders' fun.
Anonymous October 21, 2013 4:09 pm (Pacific time)
Biker Tim King wrote: "Do you know what a gang is?" Do you know what a dictionary is? Merriam-Webster says 'gang' means: - a group of criminals - a group of young people who do illegal things together and who often fight against other gangs - a group of persons working to unlawful or antisocial ends All of those fit perfectly. Except of course this gang didn't have the balls to fight other gangs. They only fight defenseless men, women and children. Well ... they would be defenseless, that is, if they didn't have an absolute legal right to drive off and escape with their lives, even when surrounded by the street dirt, necessitating paralyzing one of them for life. But people like you would take away that right, so that when the gang surrounds a vehicle and assaults the occupants, the occupants would have no legal right to escape. Biker Tim King also wrote: "I have to wonder, can you name a single incident beyond this one that involves guys on sport and dirt bikes terrorizing a family? I'm just asking." I appreciate the ignorance from which you speak. Here is a video of the same gang in 2011 surrounding a vehicle as it tries to proceed through an intersection: liveleak.com/view?i=81e_1380656714 ... At 1:13 you can see the vehicle had the green light and the right to proceed. Deliberately surrounding the vehicle like that constitutes false imprisonment, and the driver had the same legal and moral right that Alexian Lien had, which is to proceed, including if it means doing the world the favor of eliminating some of the criminals. And that's only one event that happened to be caught on tape and survive the attempts to delete the evidence after the SUV incident. This is a very regular tactic that these criminals use. Without even a legal right to be on the road (most are unlicensed), they attempt to take complete control of it by blocking off intersections, and terrorizing anyone that dares to be less than cooperative. All so they can commit illegal acts purely for their own amusement. There is a reason what they are doing is illegal: Because it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. If it hasn't sunk in how dangerous it is, look at the results. Jeremiah Edwin Mieses had his license revoked until 2017. But he chose to participate in obviously illegal activity, and chose to help box in the occupants of the SUV while his cohorts attacked it and slashed its tires in an attempt to disable it. Now his ability to use his legs has been revoked for life. Sad, but it would be much sadder if law abiding citizens had no legal recourse to escape when surrounded by these animals. Alexian Lien can't be arrested, because he acted within his legal rights, and also because if he were arrested, this gang and similar gangs would have complete immunity when they surround their next victims. That's what you want?
Lloyd October 21, 2013 3:39 pm (Pacific time)
Lien endangered his wife and child. he could have pulled over at the command of convicted drug dealers (some of whom recieve unemployment checks) with expensive motorcycles for a few minutes and watched the said convicted drug dealers (some of whom recieve unemployment checks) perform stunts. This is a sad story.
Lloyd October 21, 2013 3:35 pm (Pacific time)
Re: I am shocked that this family would have not had their baby safely fastened into a car seat, that is what the law requires. Sounds like the worst possible time to not comply with that law, but then the Lien family seems to have their own set of laws, sort of like the motorcyclists. I have to wonder, can you name a single incident beyond this one that involves guys on sport and dirt bikes terrorizing a family?
That was a response to an earlier comment stating that the woman was holding the child. Nobody needs to grasp straws, not when a driver chooses fear and violence the way this man did.. Nobody had a right to do that, sorry. The motorcycle riders were breaking the law in many instances, I guess you and some of the others clearly believe that gave Lien a license to act like a murderous maniac. I disagree, this was taking place in broad daylight. There were many witnesses. The riders were being intimidating, but Lien's actions were WRONG..
nepawoods October 21, 2013 3:18 pm (Pacific time)
I agree with the author about one thing: "Lien endangered his wife and child. he could have pulled over for a few minutes and watched the riders perform stunts."
Thanks for your comment. Do you know that the riders were all criminals? I don't know that, I'd say some were and also that some were just riding their bikes and observing more than participating. This labeling and stereotyping is where the problem with the mainstream coverage of this begins and ends.
Luke Easter October 21, 2013 3:11 pm (Pacific time)
"They apparently were attempting to clear a section of roadway in order to perform stunts on their motorcycles."
I don't disagree that this would be a great concern to motorists or that it is illegal, I just want to see people survive and not become paralyzed, thanks Luke.
Vic October 21, 2013 1:42 pm (Pacific time)
This is the first time I have heard anyone try to defend these testosterone charged punks. The victim, Mr Lien did just what I would have done. These idiots started the problem by boxing him in, then slowing down in front of him. They give all real bikers a bad name...it makes me sick that they even refer to these grandstanding punks as "bikers". From what I saw, they are nothing more than attention starved overgrown children. They tried to be bad asses and they got what they deserved...
Vic October 21, 2013 1:35 pm (Pacific time)
These irresponsible pukes on their dirt bikes have made all real bikers look bad. I totally agree with what the victim, Mr Lien did. If I was in his situation I would have done the same damn thing. I would not let my wife and child be endangered by a bunch of reckless punks who started the whole incident by boxing him in, then slowing down in front of him. This is the FIRST time I have heard anyone try to defend these testosterone charged idiots ...Jesuchristo !
Lien endangered his wife and child. he could have pulled over for a few minutes and watched the riders perform stunts. This is a sad story.
Andrew October 21, 2013 9:48 am (Pacific time)
If the bikers just wanted some space to do harmless stunts, as the author asserts, why didn't they just stop and let innocent people drive off the freeway? They couldn't wait 3-4 minutes? Instead they surround people and force them off the road? Ridiculous and dumber than dumb.
Gerhard October 21, 2013 9:28 am (Pacific time)
The bikers did try to harm the wife as well.
Safety glass, which cars are equipped with in the US, have a taped backing that tends to not fly around as you suggest, I'm just wondering how 99% of the reporting outlets could have missed this part about the wife, I will look into it. The threat is a third party report, it has little merit at this point, she wasn't driving the car that took out the bikers, and if they would have intended her harm then she would have been harmed I believe. I am shocked that this family would have not had their baby safely fastened into a car seat, that is what the law requires. Sounds like the worst possible time to not comply with that law, but then the Lien family seems to have their own set of laws, sort of like the motorcyclists. I have to wonder, can you name a single incident beyond this one that involves guys on sport and dirt bikes terrorizing a family? I'm just asking.
Anonymous October 21, 2013 9:28 am (Pacific time)
You wrote "If there was a knife, it wasn't used until the man had driven over a number of people as a hit and run traffic violator". This is false. The tires were slashed when Alexian Lien stopped and the gang surrounded his vehicle. If you committed no crime, and a gang of lawbreakers surrounded your vehicle with wife and baby inside, and proceeded to pound on it and attempt to disable it by slashing your tires, you would assume it's safe to stay put? And yes, they were breaking laws very openly and brazenly throughout the day.
Ii see, so running over people who are parked on their bikes and leaving men permanently paralyzed is a better answer to you?
Steve October 21, 2013 8:38 am (Pacific time)
I don't think this have anything to do with background on each side. Lien was just doing what he should do to protect himself and his family. I am sorry for the guy being hit by Ranger. However I don't think Lien should be responsible for tha.
Anonymous October 21, 2013 7:48 am (Pacific time)
Alexian Lien's wife and child were assaulted, before he took off and ran over one of the attackers who had them surrounded. Some people need to look up the difference between assault and battery before they claim the wife and baby weren't assaulted.
Do you know what a gang is? Do you know what a club is? What gang were they again? The only club that was present from what I understand is a police club, this just gets more confusing. Also, note that this is an Op-Ed, just because you fail to understand does not make Salem-News a 'Rag'. I oppose violence, that is what this story is about, Lien drew first blood, they were just messing with him, the man did major damage to people.
Rocky October 21, 2013 7:45 am (Pacific time)
Why do people think it is OK to run down motorcyclists? Did those who were run down have a direct involvement in Lien's troubles? I think it was indirect at best, they didn't deserve what happened, only cowards would back such an insane reaction to a handful of guys on bikes clowning around, these comments are all from non-riders, totally clueless and bathing in irrelevant fear.
John October 21, 2013 6:40 am (Pacific time)
"The driver's impatience and decision to use his vehicle as a weapon is the only reason he encountered violence. The "knife" is rarely discussed, I think we don't know enough about that, however you are writing about it as if you were there. If there was a knife, it wasn't used until the man had driven over a number of people as a hit and run traffic violator."
Six of the twenty of so riders, now that is a seriously interesting level of police involvement, sounds like the cops were the biggest problem.
John October 21, 2013 6:26 am (Pacific time)
Basically, this comes down to underachieving wannabe cops (Zimmerman) and violent drug dealers (the motorcyclists) needing to find better ways to use their time and leave other people alone. Zimmerman was a loser all his life who needed his judge daddy's connections every step of the way. And after his trial, it's become more and more obvious, with the assault on his wife and father-in-law, just what a loser he is. But losers who support him want to crucify a high school kid for smoking weed and getting in schoolyard fights. He was a grown ass man with who should have had better things to do. Those motorcyclists were also grown ass men, with better things to do than being violent drug dealers and illegally blocking off roads and falsely imprisoning many people (no, it was not just Alexian Lien) and harassing them for ***** and giggles because it satisfies their loser egos. The losers in this country need to find something that doesn't involve harassing other people, to feel more fulfilled in their dead end lives.
John October 21, 2013 6:01 am (Pacific time)
"Screw that idiot and the others who back him without taking into account how they would feel if they were run down by this mad man. He lacked guts and so do all of these limp wristed girly boys who think they can murder people if they have their kid with them, I've never heard such incredulous, pathetic whining in my life and the woman and baby WERE NOT ASSAULTED. It is sad to see people allowed to leave dishonest comments. Now go get in your four door sedans and do what your wife tells you! Geez these anti-motorcycle morons make me sick!!!" I've never been a part of a motorcycle group (containing many violent, illegal weapon owning drug dealers), who surrounded and stopped other people's cars (false imprisonment, itself a serious crime), so I wouldn't know. Let's be honest, the only people who are supporting the motorcyclists are "poor people" and blue collar people, who are resentful of anyone who studied hard enough in school to get a high paying office job. That's what it comes down to. It's because of unobjective people like them that fiascos like the Trayvon Martin case happen in this country. Anyone with half a brain knows that loser/wannabe cop should have left that high school kid alone. Instead, he's this random, 200+ guy stalking an unarmed teenager at night, and gets beat up for his stupidity, so he shoots the kid. And most of the people who supported Zimmerman are underachievers in life, who are frustrated with themselves, and hated Trayvon on the basis of class, race, etc. Most of the people supporting the motorcyclists (mostly black/Puerto Rican drug dealers), over this Asian "banker" (an IT manager at a finance company is hardly a "banker"), are likewise underachievers in life. In each case, the perpetrators were underachieving losers who harrassed other people when they should have just left them alone. Trayvon didn't get his justice, hopefully Alexian will get his.
John October 21, 2013 5:34 am (Pacific time)
"Some think the bankers who have wrought havoc on this country are the criminals." "I see people simultaneously saying Lien's background has nothing to do with this, yet the rider's backgrounds do. Do you not see how blatantly prejudiced this is? Shame on all of you for valuing some lives much less than other just because of their class." The above comments say it all. Anyone sympathizing with the motorcyclists is absolutely incapable of being objective. Being a motorcyclist is not a crime. Being a banker is not a crime. Being a violent, drug dealing, illegal weapons owner is a crime. Committing banking fraud is a crime. Many of the motorcyclists did have the aforementioned criminal records. Alexian Lien does not have a record for banking fraud. But I suppose, according to you geniuses, if he's a banker, then he's automatically a criminal.
David October 20, 2013 11:58 pm (Pacific time)
I'm not anti-motorcycle. I'm anti-thug and that's what these guys are. They are thugs out to make trouble. And a thug does not ride a motorcycle only. Many drive nice cars, live in mansions, and have million dollar contracts - like Aaron Hernandez for instance.
Anthony October 20, 2013 8:36 pm (Pacific time)
I'm sorry but I fail to see your points. I still don't understand why I need to pull over to the right when I see motorcycles come up behind me. Most of the time I don't look back unless I'm trying to change lanes or if I hear a honk or emergency sirens so I probably would have just stayed in my lane and drove the speed limit which is what I think the SUV driver did. Even if bikers asked me to pull over to let them pass I don't think I would have since I wouldn't do that for a car either especially if other lanes were available for them to pass.
You feel as though you know that all of these riders, including the undercover cop(s) who directly participated, didn't have licenses or insurance, why?
The driver's impatience and decision to use his vehicle as a weapon is the only reason he encountered violence. The "knife" is rarely discussed, I think we don't know enough about that, however you are writing about it as if you were there. If there was a knife, it wasn't used until the man had driven over a number of people as a hit and run traffic violator.
If the riders had intended to harm the woman then this would be a totally different story, they only harmed the driver who had so blatantly let fear take control.
Dex October 20, 2013 6:02 pm (Pacific time)
I see people simultaneously saying Lien's background has nothing to do with this, yet the rider's backgrounds do. Do you not see how blatantly prejudiced this is? Shame on all of you for valuing some lives much less than other just because of their class.
Anonymous October 20, 2013 6:02 pm (Pacific time)
Lien did everything by choice, he brought all of the danger on, he was not going to be assaulted by anybody until he started ramming down bikers, leaving at least one paralyzed. Screw that idiot and the others who back him without taking into account how they would feel if they were run down by this mad man. He lacked guts and so do all of these limp wristed girly boys who think they can murder people if they have their kid with them, I've never heard such incredulous, pathetic whining in my life and the woman and baby WERE NOT ASSAULTED. It is sad to see people allowed to leave dishonest comments. Now go get in your four door sedans and do what your wife tells you! Geez these anti-motorcycle morons make me sick!!!
nepawoods October 20, 2013 5:47 pm (Pacific time)
Matt Johnson commented "don't you think there would have been other crimes committed that day if the riders were such criminals" ... There were. Undeniably, they are such criminals. The NYPD confiscated 50 motorcycles and arrested 15 of the group earlier that day. Over 200 people called 911 about criminal acts being committed by the gang that day, before they ever met up with the SUV. There are also plenty of videos (taken by the gang itself) documenting the gang assaulting other vehicles in previous illegal rides. And Mieses and others in the group have lengthy criminal records. Yes, they are such criminals.
Some think the bankers who have wrought havoc on this country are the criminals.
David October 20, 2013 5:04 pm (Pacific time)
What does Mr. Lien's career have anything to do with his guilt or innocence in this matter? Nothing. Your argument is weak and therefore, you inject class envy into your story.
John October 20, 2013 5:02 pm (Pacific time)
Actually, they were trying to pull the mother out and said, "You're going ro get it too," before being stopped by bystanders. And yes, the "riders" are criminals. Violent criminals with weapons and drug dealing charges. It's all public record. Was the victim a soft, white collar, "1%er", who was unprepared for confrontation? The type you despise because of your resentment against people who work in an office and have an "easier" life than you? The motorcyclists' sympathizers are a transparent lot.
Nash October 20, 2013 4:55 pm (Pacific time)
There is a lot factually wrong about this article. Definitely would have gotten a zero in journalism class. There was a lot of editorializing in the media news stories, but for anyone who stumbles across this misinformed piece, please seek out multiple additional sources to get the facts straight (ie: the passenger and back seat windows were smashed in- where wife & baby were sitting; eyewitnesses state bystanders came to the family's help after the wife was being pulled out of the passenger seat, while a biker was heard telling her something along the lines of "You're going to get it too," the crowd then stepped in and yelled, "Not the lady!"; after the initial stop after the brake check fender bender, the biker mob of 20-30 people began slashing the cars tires). All of these facts make this article here seem very ignorant and silly. There are other points the author could have argued/explored. The ones he chose to were not well researched.
Jeff October 20, 2013 4:07 pm (Pacific time)
Is this guy for real???
Read it and weep, even the mainstream reports that other than Lien, "There were no other injuries." I checked other sources as well, the woman and child were not assaulted, none of the allegations in these comments suggesting she was are accurate. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/01/bikers-suv-nyc/2906385/.
Matt Johnson October 20, 2013 1:39 pm (Pacific time)
There is nothing to fear but fear itself, all of you could easily be viewed as a threat depending on the circumstances, don't you think there would have been other crimes committed that day if the riders were such criminals. What a lousy bunch of squares, quit hiding behind your mother's skirts and admit that you don't have a cool bone in your body. The riders were not going to harm the Lien family, that is why when the vehicle was finally subdued, they didn't so much as approach the mother and baby. You all watch and believe in far too many movies, get a life!
nepawoods October 20, 2013 10:58 am (Pacific time)
The author of this article must be ignorant of the facts as evidenced in other videos of this same group, where they surround and attack vehicles for no legitimate reason and knowingly terrorize the occupants of those vehicles. Alexian Lien's fear was justified under the circumstances. Whether or not the gang would have actually hurt Mr. Lien and his family is irrelevant. Mr. Lien had no way to know they wouldn't, and they intentionally created the fear that they would. Under those circumstances, Mr. Lien was justified in escaping, and being surrounded by the attackers as he was, there was only one way out, and he took it. Alexian Lien did what he was obligated to do as a husband and father.
Luis October 20, 2013 5:40 am (Pacific time)
Get your stories straight before you write this garbage. What would anyone do facing the same situation? Have you ever heard what slashed tire sound like? BTW they don't slash your tires with a pen. They were armed and as proof of what happened later they were criminals. Doesn't matter whether I were Chinese, black, banker, teacher, student I would be out of there in a heart beat. Don't know if I would have done any better than Mr. Lien.
John October 20, 2013 2:57 am (Pacific time)
Almost all of the motorcyclists involved have a rap sheet involving violent crime and drug dealing. You clearly have resentment against the "1%", and delight in seeing some white collar guy get beat up by a gang of career criminals. No person in their right mind would think those motoryclists have more credibility than the victim involved.
Anonymous October 19, 2013 10:42 pm (Pacific time)
These thugs should all be charged as accessories for attempted murder.
Chris October 19, 2013 4:25 pm (Pacific time)
Hate to disagree Tim but the bikers instigated the incident. The bikers have no right to block off a section of public highway for their personal stunt show. The driver of the SUV no doubt became scared when he bumped the back tire of the bike that illegally tried to stop in front of him, and then watching his vehicle get surrounded. Unless something else came to light, as a jury member, I would acquit. To bring in the drivers income level and profession is wrong. That is playing class warfare. I think the lesson here is for amateur stunt riders to find legal and safe locations for their exploits. Out with his wife to celebrate their anniversary with their 2 year old along, he simply saw these lawbreakers as a threat to the safety if his family and got out of there the only way he could. It was a shame that the now paralyzed motorcyclist stopped in front of the SUV (illegally). Think about it.
Jimmy October 19, 2013 9:18 am (Pacific time)
Wow, just wow...
Jimmy, they were trying to do stunts, the only trouble they were looking for was a hard fall on the pavement. Mr. VIP banker was wrong, he just needed to chill and get out of the way. And you never used public roads for a playground right? Anyway I know many people feel the way you do about it, I just have this tendency to look at stories like this through a different light, thanks for your comment.
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