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Wood Release Confirmed
Obito uses Wood Release in Chapter 605. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 04:41, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Its true. Spiral Zetsu even said that it was Obito who used Wood Release: Piercing Branch Technique, not him. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:43, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, why don't we add it then? Also, Obito's Mangekyou Sharingan section needs to be updated to say that he got it by witnessing Rin's death. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 04:49, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah he fully matured his Sharingan and awakened Mangekyo at the same time, I am guessing if you awaken the Mangekyo before 3 tomoe then it forces your sharingan into maturity. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:19, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
- That's all very well, but are we gonna add Wood Release to his Kekkai Genkai or not? I'd do it myself, but I can't edit anything. =_= 184.108.40.206 (talk) 06:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
i truly agree it should be added.--Tchad1 (talk) 10:53, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
The infobox is locked, when an Admin gets here they'll either unlock it and the information can be added, or add it directly. You guys aren't the only people that can read and come to the realisation that it needs to be added. This place isn't run by robots either.--Cerez365™(talk) 10:59, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
I see it's been added already. The one thing I believe we should consider listing is that the only time we've seen him using confirmed Wood Release is when he was wearing Spiral Zetsu. Remember that his own Zetsu arm was mush at that point. This is kinda like a more complicated scenario of Tsunade giving Onoki chakra for Dust Release, but this time both people can use Wood Release. I'm sure I'm acting paranoid and nit-picky about this, and we'll see Obito use Wood Release by himself in the neat future, but that's just how I am. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
You can't ignore Zetsu's comment. Also the branches came just from his crushed side.--Elveonora (talk) 01:42, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
I'm not. Obito willed the technique, and was credited with its use, but it was technically spiral Zetsu's arm that performed it. He made it happen, but not with his own Zetsu arm. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:58, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
There's no problem then. For now, we should mention that while being merged with Zetsu, he can use Wood Release or something--Elveonora (talk) 03:06, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be against throwing caution to the wind if you want. I always wondered why he never used it in his adult years...--Cerez365™(talk) 11:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
- Note, I wouldn't even say he was merged, wasnt he just...kinda wearing Spiral Zetsu's body?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:57, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
The wood did come from Obito's Hashi part, not whole Zetsu enveloped body. Just because a ninja didn't use something doesn't mean he couldn't, because if we go by this logic, Tobirama wasn't an Edo Tensei user and Itachi has never used Magatama and that fire tech since that was post-death--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
It indeed did come from his right side, no one is discrediting the fact that he used it, Omnibender's just being cautious. As for the Tobirama bit, I don't get that because they said he was the inventor of, and was known for its use by the older generation. Madara stuff also doesn't make sense to me since that would mean all Edo Tensei'd persons never used the techniques they've currently displayed. I just found it interesting that Tobi's never used it in present day.--Cerez365™(talk) 17:30, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
It's not like killing people with branches is his only technique, Zetsu didn't display and wasn't known for Wood Release until late in the manga. While interesting, it's self-explainable... But of course it's still very possible that the funny Zetsu clone guy suit DID enhance his Hashi powers, thus without him, it's just weak or something. But that isn't the point, Obuto has Hashi cells, used a Wood technique knowingly, so has been put as a user, there's nothing left to discuss. If it was his own technique or not doesn't matter since Sasuke had temporary ones as well and are still in his infobox.--Elveonora (talk) 17:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Uh, how does spiral Zetsu crediting him with the use of the technique means it came from Obito's Hashirama arm? We saw it breaking when he tried getting past the wall. He pretty much didn't have a right arm when the Zetsu enveloped him. This would be akin to a leg amputee Ino performing a kick after sending her mind to a different body. Obito is listed as the user, but it should be pointed out that it was performed with a body part that isn't his. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:09, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Obito's age
Are we really doing this again? Obito isn't 13. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:38, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
He's Around Kakashi's Age , A Year Younger I Think .--~ {D.S.P.} [G/G] (talk) 22:09, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
Actually Obito is older, so he isn't 29-30 as you constantly list him to be--Elveonora (talk) 01:40, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Just because Kakashi said he became chunin at 6 doesn't mean much anymore. That was literally the beginning of the series, and Kishimoto has a tendency to contradict himself. He obviously forgot or changed his mind, since there's no way Kakashi was 6 in chapter 599. But I will admit that Obito's age is ambiguous, since it hasn't been elaborated on yet. Since there's no direct confirmation of his age, we should just say 30-34 or something. Even that would be better than listing him as 13.. since he's obviously not. :/ --M4ND0N (talk) 06:43, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Kishimoto has already acknowledged the mistake in chapter 599, Obito and Kakashi's graduation/promotion ages are correct, as both manga chapters and databooks do reference them. The things that will be corrected are Minato's monument head being cut and hopefully Hayate won't be present in the chapter as he would be 26 now if alive, but the entrance ceremony did occur 26 years ago, so at the time he was either an infant or still inside of his father "_" Kakashi was 4 and Obito 8 during their first Academy day if you like it or not. That makes him 34 in Part II. --Elveonora (talk) 17:20, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Definitely hit me up with the article where he acknowledges this, because it seems like a good read.. especially since Kakashi doesn't look 8 at all, and that's going by the same logic people used to discredit Tobi being Obito back when he fought Minato.. so like, fair game I guess. lmfao. But if it's totally confirmed by the man himself, why are we not listing him as 34? Anything but 13 would work at this point. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:52, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
So far its looking like a retcon needs to be done, Because Kakashi was a REALLY huge 9year old if thats the case, because Kakashi next to rin was obvious he is not small in chapter 605. Kakashi is 13 in the gaiden and the 599 just opened up plotholes, stop trying to make everything fit and just accept kishimoto effed up here. Kakashi and Obito are the same age... 126.96.36.199 (talk) 06:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
Don't look how old do Kishi's character drawings look, do I have to bring up the overused Itachi example? Also it's completely feasible, I know of 10 year-old that's 150cm --Elveonora (talk) 23:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
- And on that note, I remember Shonensuki mentioning somewhere that "Kishimoto is horrible at protraying age," so Kishi just made a mistake on the ages of the characters. It can happen to anybody who is drawing children younger than 14-15 (as most JUMP protagonists are that age). --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:37, October 12, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
What makes you think Obito and Rin weren't 6 at the time? I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just making a point here. While Kishi indeed confirmed that Kakashi became Chunin at 6 early in the series, there's a lot of stuff to consider here. A. Kishi never revealed either Obito or Rin's ages, at least from my knowledge. and B. Chapter 599 has a number of plot holes, mainly Minato's statue. So Kakashi being in the Chunin exams at the same point as Obito might have been a mistake on Kishi's part. None of this confirms that Obito is older than Kakashi. --M4ND0N (talk) 01:34, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
- 1 - Watch you language on here, we do not allow the f bomb to be dropped in discussions. Second, Obito's age was released in the databooks as 13 years old when his presumed death occured and Rin's was never revleaed. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 01:42, October 13, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
Well see? There you go. So option B is that Kishi simply messed up when putting Kakashi's chunin promotion in the chapter. He forgot that Minato wasn't Hokage at that point, so what's stopping him from forgetting that Kakashi graduated at 5 and became Chunin at 6? This still isn't confirmation that Obito is older than Kakashi. It could just as easily be a mistake on Kishi's part. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:15, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
He didn't forget/retcon/mess up anything, except the Minato Monument mistake (acknowledged and will be corrected) and Hayate, but that's secondary.
- According to a databook, Obito was 13 as of his "death" and Kakashi has been promoted to Jounin at the time (Kakashi Gaiden, chapter 599 being references)
- I relly don't get what's not clear here:
- Obito did fail the exams twice, once at 9 (the year Team Minato has graduated from Academy - Kakashi 5 at this time), then at 10 (Kakashi turned Chunin as 6 years old) and finally managed to succeed as 11 years old (Kakashi being 7)
- 2 years later, Kakashi turned Jounin and Obito got crushed by boulders
- 5 years later, Obito attacks Konoha, Kakashi was 14 then
There's no error--Elveonora (talk) 03:55, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
Again, that is your assumption, you don't know what is and what isn't wrong here. Kishi was the one who added the data to the databooks and he is the one who makes the manga, he simply either forgot or contradicted a few things, whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and the databook 4, you are not Kishimoto yourself and he never addressed this issue either so stop acting like "he said it himself" or "in an interview".. wait til the tankobon and wait til databook 4, then we will confirm more things with those. So far we should just put it that he was 13 during the Kannabi Bridge incident and leave his current age blank until it is genuinely confirmed by the man himself, also ShounenSuki found an ingenious method on discovering academy graduation times with their Ninja Registration numbers, look at Obito, Gai, Rin and Kakashi's reg numbers and tell me what you get when combined with their other databook information.. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 19:27, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
- "whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and databook 4" that's what I said, I don't disagree, so what's your point?
- "you are not Kishimotot yourself and he never adressed this issue either s stop acting" Thank you for letting me know I do not write manga, also he did, I'm not a very good actor, sorry
- So? I'm okay with leaving his age as "13" the point of this is, that he ain't as old as Kakashi, thus putting 29-30 in there is premature
- With all due respect to Suki-sensei, he was also the one to screw up with the "safe to assume all Genin members of Team Minato are the same old" This brought the phenomenon that have spread all over the fandom, as a confirmation of Kakashi graduation age being 13 (since Obito "died" as 13) both databooks and chapter 599 prove this to be false, not to mention it's Kishimoto > everyone else.
No worries, I wouldn't work with assumption here, just canonical facts. For now as of it is, Kakashi turned Jounin at 9 and Obito is 34. Before you say, "retcon blah blah wait for up-to-date blah blah" then information will be updated as changes and additions are being made. --Elveonora (talk) 19:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
Again. It was you who said Tobi couldn't be Obito because he looked too old to be 14 when he fought Minato. I'm going by that same logic here.. Kakashi doesn't look even close to 6 in chapter 599, so I'm going to assume it was a mistake on Kishi's part. Kishi's made it abundantly clear that he can draw younger characters, so there's absolutely no excuse for the mistake in 599 besides Kishi simply forgetting when Kakashi became chunin or he changed his mind on the timeline. Either way, to assume Kakashi was 6 in 599 is ridiculous. And that's putting it nicely. I'm not contradicting canonical facts here, I'm simply pointing out that 599 was a rushed chapter, as seen with Obito's white hair in a single panel, and Minato's statue. And I definitely wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to simply forget when Kakashi became a chunin. Obviously this can't be resolved by anybody but Kishi. --188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:28, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, before it was made clear, that Suki's sensei statement is incorrect. We can always wait for the Tankobon, but if it won't be changed, please don't tell me he made the mistake a few times in a row. Also he didn't forget, the chapter even shows Kakashi becoming a Chunin. It was a year after Academy graduation, both in manga and databook, there's no contradiction. I wouldn't mix drawing mistakes with canonical/timeline ones. It's hard to draw a young looking Kakashi, taking into consideration most of his face is concealed with a mask, and he wasn't shown with many facial expressions due to this. It's simply a fail, you can even notice that he looks much older in face when defeating Guy, than he does in the Gaiden, which happens years after.--Elveonora (talk) 02:31, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
How is it hard to draw a young looking Kakashi? Kishi pulled it off just fine in the beginning of the chapter, where he actually does look 6. The contradiction is that Kakashi doesn't look anywhere close to 6 in the Chunin Exams. He looks even older than he did in Kakashi Gaiden, so that's another reason why I think Kishi lazily wrote the flashback portions of the chapter. Still, I agree, we should still wait for Databook 4, and if the ages are still the same, then it is what it is. --M4ND0N (talk) 03:23, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
How come the newer information of Obito and pictures haven't been added to his page for the beginning of his flash back of him first having on Spiral Zetsu aka Tobi. —This unsigned comment was made by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) .
- They have, do us the favour of actually reading the article. Images are only added if there is enough text to distribute them through it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:55, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering why does Obito's page also only have his stats from before his death? —This unsigned comment was made by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) .
- Because they're the only ones that were published in the databooks. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
Obito's Arm
In the last page of chapter 605, Obito's arm is not visible, yet there is a giant tree to the immediate right of him. Am I the only one thinking that he lost control, like Danzo, and his arm was swallowed whole by the Senju DNA? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 04:13, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
So you don't think the right side of his body looks irregular and the cloak had been torn as if a massive tree had ripped through? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 18:05, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
- Ohhh, I see what you mean now. The giant tree structure is in fact coming from his right hand but it doesn't seem like he's lost control of the DNA.--Cerez365™(talk) 18:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
Well, perhaps not, but it's the same concept as when Danzo's arm was engulfed by a tree. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 18:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
- Except that Danzō needed to break it off before his entire body got turned into a tree while Obito seems "fine" there. Maybe the next chapter will bring something different into play but from those frames it doesn't seem like his body is turning into a tree but simply a cruder looking replica of what Yamato normally does.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:10, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
Well, it seems like he would've snapped the tree off like he did numerous times with Piercing Branch or whatever, especially since he's done fighting for now.
But yeah, I guess we'll see. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 16:49, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Speaking of arms, Obito has his right side replaced with a regenerative body, right? Now maybe it's just me, but in the anime, when he fights the 4th and gets hit by his Rasengan, it seems that his left arm is damaged. Am I looking at it incorrectly? 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:27, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
Obito Uchiha a Missing-Nin?
I don't think he's technically a Missing-Nin I mean everyone in Konoha thinks Obito Uchiha's dead but he was alive committing various crime as Tobi or Madara Uchiha.
It was only when Naruto destroy his mask when his real identity was revealed and the fact wasn't revealed to the public yet. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Has he returned to the village? Does he hold any allegiance to the village any more?--Cerez365™(talk) 12:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
That was his identity of Tobi, and Madara Uchiha. The Ninja World didn't know that Obito Uchiha is a Missing-Nin to the public yet. --Cococrash11 (talk) 19:42, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
- But we know. He went as far as to attack the village and from all outward appearances, he holds no allegiance to the village any more.--Cerez365™(talk) 22:29, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
So the information is for us and it's for their world to find out sooner or later. --Cococrash11 (talk) 06:45, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
Second Six Path Title belongs to Madara, not Obito
As of chapter 606, everything Tobi has said he's done under Madara's name has been done by Madara. Including this title. It should be moved. Or at least put on both of them.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:14, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Madara_Uchiha#Second_Rikudou still ignored--Elveonora (talk) 23:51, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
Starting up the name debate again
I think in light of the new chapter, we really should switch all references to the name Tobi in background and plot overview and replace it with his original name. Because from how it looks, Tobi was an alias Obito only really used a little bit in part 2 until he revealed himself as "Madara Uchiha". The latest chapter clearly shows him adopting Madara's name first, so I really don't see any reason to treat his Tobi alias as anything but a very brief, and very temporary name he used for the first half of part 2. It shouldn't be used to describe him in 70% of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 04:26, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
- So, what should we use?~http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.pnghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3talk.png 04:34, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
What else would we use? For the plot overview and background, we'd replace every use of the name Tobi with Obito. Since Tobi is an alias and we know who he is now, there's no sense really using it aside from the info card and the references at the beginning of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:12, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
Here's an example of why we shouldn't do this and immediately check it out. Furido aka Kazuma.--Droidkaju (talk) 05:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
- (EC)I am Ok with changing it.~http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.pnghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3talk.png 05:22, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
The difference is, Obito was only directly referred to as Tobi for a small portion of the series. On top of it just being an alias, it's messy to refer to him as Obito on one portion of the article and then Tobi on another. Since we already know who he is, and the latest chapter confirms that he was using Madara's name from the start, and not Tobi, it seems appropriate to just call him Obito. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
It is not messy. What is messy is using anachronism and referring to him as places where he was referred to as Tobi or Madara, or going through every section and essentially inserting "spoilers" every instance where another name may be used. Calling Obito Tobi in some cases or even Madara should be as natural as calling Sakumo "Konoha's White Fang" or the tailed beasts by their generic titles sometimes; it's just a moniker. I know this wiki is full of spoilers but in most cases the reading flows better when the name Tobi is used instead of Obito. By now everybody should know that they're one in the same, and we have redirects.--Cerez365™(talk) 11:04, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
I'm completely okay with calling him "Madara" with quotes on portions of the wiki where he uses the name. Like, for the background section of the article, one part of it is labeled, "Becoming Tobi." But since we know he never adapted that alias at any point in his past, we should change that to Becoming "Madara" as an example. And for the portions of the plot overview where he uses Madara's name, we'd change it up accordingly. I actually think that would work equally well to calling him Obito throughout the entire article, imo. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
- I will say this, I hate using names with quotes. Strongly. It looks, for lack of a better word, stupid. Going from there, the reason Tobi is used in sections where he was otherwise going as Madara is because of the revelation that Madara was dead. Using Tobi for those parts works just as well and doesn't get stupid with two Madara's on the site.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:09, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
- uh, it's easy: Everything he does as Obito is labeled as Obito's doing. Everything he does as Madara is labeled as Madara's doing and everything he does as Tobi is labeled as Tobi's doing. He was Obito when he was young, Madara after the real Madara died and Tobi when he joined Akatsuki. Madara and Tobi are equivalent nicknames, if we somewhere state that Tobi has done something, we can also state somewhere that Madara has done something. If we explain that Obito only took on the name of Madara, every reader will know who is who. Seelentau 愛議 19:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
But then it gets even more convoluted than it is already. It kind of adds to the problem of inconsistency when we have Obito labeled with 3 names instead of 1. We have enough information to confirm that everything Obito did as Tobi and "Madara" were things he did consciously as Obito, so there's little point in calling him by any alias. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:32, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Except that it would take away the purpose of him taking on these names. Of course we should write that it was consciously him at the beginning of this article, but afterwards we should call him by the names he took on at that time. Because you know, if we really don't want to call him by any names, we should call him 'Nobody', since he also dropped his old name. All or none. Seelentau 愛議 22:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
So why are we calling him Tobi in portions where he didn't use the name? Either we call him Tobi and Madara on appropriate parts of the article or we call him Obito everywhere he's mentioned. The best course of action right now is to see what the majority wants. Obviously I'm in favor of changing it to Obito everywhere else, but I also think calling him "Madara" or Masked Man on parts of the article where he's wearing the mask is also a good compromise. But calling him Tobi on parts where he didn't use the name? Since it was used as a placeholder for Obito's name until we discovered his identity after the revelation of Edo Madara, I see no use to use it for the article anymore, except on the infobox and beginning of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:05, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
- THeUltimate3 is not at his own computer atm, so I will be speaking here. I want it noted that, according to le databook, "Madara Uchiha put on the mask and began working under the name Tobi". Discrediting the fact that Madara himself clearly didn't do any of this but Obito had, at some point in the past before the start of the story, Obito began operating under the name Tobi. Now, there we go.--188.8.131.52 (talk) 00:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
That's irrelevant, since it's an outdated databook and the latest chapter clearly shows Obito adopting the Madara alias first. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:33, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
- And so "Madara" took up the name Tobi. It hasn't been contradicted.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:55, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
What speaks against doing it as I said? Tobi and Madara are both aliases, the only difference is Madara being a real person and Tobi not. But if we explain beforehand that Obito only took that name, we can use it afterwards without confusing the reader. Then we're saying he changed his nickname to Tobi and call him Tobi from that point on. In the end, when he's talking about being no one and all this, we can explain that matter too, and finally go back to calling him Obito, since his real identity was revealed and he's called Obito by Madara. Seelentau 愛議 11:07, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
But seriously. Am I the only one who thinks we're making this more complicated than it needs to be? It's not even a matter of confusing the reader, it's a matter of having a cleaner, more consistent article. We know who he is.. so why don't we just call him Obito instead of switching his name depending on when he's wearing the mask and when he isn't? There's no point. I'm perfectly willing to do the changes myself, if everyone's for it. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:50, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
- You're not the only one who thinks that, no. I think its dumb too that they refer to him as Tobi everywhere. Tobi, Madara, its ridiculous regardless of what reason you people use to do it. I don't people referring to Minato as just the Fourth Hokage in the sections he was only known as such. You can't really do that with Madara, since the real Madara is around now. I gave up arguing with them after the second time I brought this issue up. They really should change it, one, because its redundant, two because its unneeded, three because it makes things more convoluted than necessary, four because we don't do it for any other character, five, did I mention it is redundant? But they won't, so I'm not gonna even try again. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Not only that, there's no real standard set for when you call him Tobi and when you don't. On the panel where Obito and Zetsu go looking for Nagato it's listed on the article as, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Moon's Eye Plan" or something. So where does Obito end and Tobi start? There's no real thought put into how we name him in the article since his mask came off, so instead of tiring ourselves trying to decide when we should call him Tobi and when we should call him Obito, why don't we just skip all that and call him Obito? If any admins are available to give us the yes or no to this issue, that would be great. Again, I'm perfectly willing to do all the edits myself if need be. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:19, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
This really needs to just stop. I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again. Tobi does not even consider himself Obito anymore. In fact, he claims Obito is dead with the statement "whether or not 'I' survived is irrelevant." And there's also the fact that he explicitly stated that the name "Obito" no longer held any value to him. Point being, the masked man left all of his past, save for possibly Rin and the pain with her death, behind him. This is also presumably why he becomes paranoid and starts concealing his identity in nearly every instance possible. He no longer wants to be Obito.
So, looking at it from his perspective, I feel like it makes complete sense that every act performed under "Madara" or Tobi is credited to the latter name since he deems "himself" to be deceased. As to where the alias Tobi should be in place of Obito, I believe it should start either with this past chapter of him using the name "Madara" or when the name "Tobi" surfaces for the first time in the timeline. That's just my two cents. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 01:19, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
You're taking what Obito said entirely out of context. He never said he considers Obito dead or alive, he only said that he was nobody. The fact is, he's Obito, whether he considers himself Obito or not. In a logically written article, Obito would be called Madara in points where he used the name, not Tobi. And that's going by the logic you people use to justify calling him Tobi even though we know who he is. Just stop, he's Obito, so there's no reason to keep switching his name throughout the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 01:29, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
The admins have already expressed their dislike for having quotations in a name or calling him Madara as well and have 2 Madaras in the same article. Zetsu still calls him Tobi, and the man himself would rather be called Tobi than Obito. I personally think he should still be called Tobi even after having the mask destroyed since the mask doesn't really change a person's identity, but whatever, I'm not going to get butthurt over it. You're the one who needs to just drop it and find something better to do rather than bicker all day about substituting an alias for another name. Who. The hell. Cares. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 01:56, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
- I would like to apologize now, for not responding sooner, I was waiting for (at least) one more person to say something. That being said, I agree with Uchiha Suraku's reasoning, though my nerd brain looks at it similar to Anakin/Darth Vader at the Star Wars Wiki. In areas of story relevance, such as Background and the Part in Story sections, what they go by is what is used, and I believe that should be reflected in other articles, (for example: Nagato, who's real name is used in his background up until he takes on the name "Pain").--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:17, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
Well see, if it was just the plot overview that called him Tobi, that would make sense. But the latest chapter seems to point toward Obito never using the alias in the flashback until the beginning of part 2, so at least for the background section I think we should list him as Obito. Especially because it's convoluted to say, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Eye of the Moon Plan" while he's still wearing the mask, and then the next photo using the caption, "Tobi and Minato clash." It's inconsistent and messy, especially because there was no chapter specifying if Obito adapted the alias between meeting Nagato and fighting Minato. I tried to compromise and change the first picture to say, "Tobi and Zetsu enact the blahblahblah" But Droidkaju reversed it because he said it's too early to call him Tobi. So like I said, we need to figure out where Obito ends and Tobi begins with actual facts from the manga. I think a good compromise is calling him Tobi when he actually uses the name, which is mostly on the plot overview section. At least until the flashback proves otherwise and he starts calling himself Tobi. I mean it's your call, and I don't think there's anything wrong with calling him Tobi in context to a timeline where he actually uses the name, but I still don't think it makes sense to call him so in the background section since he adopted Madara's name first. Also, once again you're distorting facts from the manga, Suraku. Obito prefers to be called Tobi than Obito? Are you being serious, or just deliberately misunderstanding Obito's words? He doesn't care what he's called, that was the whole point of what he said. Obito, Tobi, Madara, he doesn't care. He never stated once that he dislikes his original name, he only said that it means nothing to him. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:08, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not taking anything out of context. The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names. Hell, he has yet to even utter the name "Obito" since he donned a mask.
But, then if we aren't taking the own man's preference into consideration, Zetsu is the next closest reliable source in line. He's been with Obito/Tobi since the beginning of his antagonism, and he too has yet to even mention the name "Obito" since becoming Tobi. So Madara calls him Obito because the name "Tobi" never surfaced when he was still alive, big deal. Madara also doesn't know what Tobi is up to at this point and questions his methods. The structure is currently fine the way it is. Let's move on with something else now. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:26, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
- Problem with your logic, " The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names."
- You are looking at this too much from the character's point of view and not the author's. If Kishimoto had Obito say, "Tobi... Madara... Obito... Call me whatever, I don't care." He'd have spoiled his identity then and there. Of COURSE the name wasn't mentioned. Also, that wasn't a "list of preferred names". When you don't care what your name is, then there is no such thing as preference. Obito is Obito. Aliases don't matter. I think Omnibender's point was fairly valid, though. I never considered the Anakin-Darth Vader thing. However, M4D0N is also correct; where does Obito end and Tobi begin? He was using Madara's name first, after all, and the only people that refer to him as Tobi is Sasori, Deidara, and Zetsu. We can't call him Tobi in all the earlier sections if we don't know when his name was Tobi. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:18, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. The handling of this article is becoming more difficult than it needs to be. Just call him Obito in the background section and leave everything as it is until the sections after his mask is destroyed. Problem solved. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:06, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Trivia Section
All right, this is getting out of hand. Before the trivia that user Droidkaju wishes to put on the page is thoroughly discuss on the talk page, as it should have been from the very beginning, I recommend for the page to lock until a decision is made. All further debate will be done here on the talk page.
And to respond to Droidkaju's question: What the heck are you talking about? You're making me confuse.--NinjaSheik 23:25, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know how many times the wording was changed, but I don't have anything against the trivia itself in principle, the thing is, it's very strangely worded. Let me see if I got it straight: when Obito used the swirl mask, we could see the scars on his face, and thought it was because he was old. When he changed to the Rinnegan mask, what do you mean to say happened? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I was kinda confused what what Droidkaju is trying to say, but after I reverted the edit last night, I went into the History and saw yours and Cerez's words to him when you guys also reverted it, as well as Droidkaju's. To me, it just seems like he's pointing out that he just seems old because of his scars. I don't think that's relevant to mention.--NinjaSheik 00:35, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Since I couldn't explain my trivia in words (and I don't blame, you I sometimes can't clarify my sentences or explain very properly) I'll just show a picture to explain. So look on the new photos page and you'll see what i mean.--Droidkaju (talk) 00:37, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, in the opening, they put the same scar-like wrinkles he has in the right side of his face in the left side of his face, even though he's not supposed to have them. You mean to point out an animation mistake? I don't recall us ever having that sort of clarity or zoom on his left socket in the manga, one that would show the wrinkles. I can only recall seeing the left eye, with the part of his face hidden in a shadow. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:44, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
EDIT CONFLICT: Okay, I see the images. Same as Omni-senpai: Are you pointing out an animation error? His scars aren't as pronounced in Picture 7. And his skin color is also clearly paler. But the scars are still visible. Most of the time his face is hidden in a shadow. Bottom line, when we get a close up of his left eye, the scars are very clearly visible.--NinjaSheik 00:47, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Now do you see why i think the trivia should go back and that the Obito shouldn't be protected.--Droidkaju (talk) 00:50, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Not really, no. If it's an animation error, then just but in the Anime-Manga Differences page. Also, you can't expect the animation not to change. It's going to change and keep changing. And it's going to make mistakes. Do you remember Naruto's fight with Pain in Chibaku Tensei (episode)? The animation was simply horrible. And animation is going to make mistakes. That's why we have that section on A-M Differences page.--NinjaSheik 00:53, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
I think his point is, that in the anime, it's being portrayed as winkles under both of his eyes, while in the manga, it turned out to be scars instead on his right side of face, thus the animators were under the impression that he was old (we can't blame them)--Elveonora (talk) 01:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
The manga equivalent of picture 8, last panel of chapter 514, we see only the eyes, not the skin around them. Definitely an animation change/mistake. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. :) Droidkaju already made the edit on the A-M D's page already, too.--NinjaSheik 01:13, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Considering that page, references to manga chapter and pages, as well as episodes are required. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
The animation in the Kurama!Naruto episode wasn't a mistake. It was deliberately surreal. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 05:56, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Using his real name in the background section
Chpt 607 is out and the flashback is over. Obito never used his Tobi alias once in the past, so it's pretty much confirmed that he adapted it later down the line. With that being said, there's really no justifiable excuse to calling him Tobi in the background section of the article, and I think we should change it. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:52, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
I agree... he is "Tobi" since "joining" Akatsuki it appears, thus calling him that despite him no longer being Tobi makes no sense whatsoever--Elveonora (talk) 06:39, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm still going to disagree. I'm still using the databook that after "Madara" disappeared from history, moved as Tobi. But I can see this will be ignored. I will instead move my actions into gutting the background section.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 07:16, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Agreed with Ultimate. In addition, the name "Tobi" is not only used as a name, it is used to depict his drastically altered personality, goals, ideology, etc. This is why there is a section called "Becoming Tobi". However, it would be more accurate to say "Becoming 'Madara'", but I know the admins are against using quotations as a name, thus Tobi will have to suffice. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:48, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Edit: Well, I just noticed that entire section was removed. As for what reason, I have no idea. Now it just looks like there was never a transition between goofy Obito and the evil Tobi. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
- In the end, I had better things to contribute to the wiki than the fight against what he would be called in one section. Changing it from "Becoming Tobi" which caused all this to "Becoming Madara" which was pointless and "Becoming The Man Who Was Nobody" was just really now come on. "Moving the Plan Forward" or whatever it's called now, was the lesser of two evils and we can get on with our lives.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:35, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
- While I understand your dilemma, "Moving the Plan Forward" seems to only indicate that Obito adopted Madara's Eye of the Moon Plan and nothing more. I feel like there should be a stronger title to represent the immense change Obito went through. Perhaps it could be named "A Change of Heart" or something along those lines? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:42, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
Tobi was just an alias used for infiltrating Akatsuki. If you really wanted to represent that, you could change it to "Becoming nobody" or "Rise of a masked man" or something, but "Becoming Tobi" didn't seem fitting, since he, from what we can tell, never used the name prior to the start of part 2. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:26, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
in CHapter 606: page 6 i think when obito is kneeling with rin, the moon's reflection and the ripples make a rinnegan. Also just a question i cant figure out, when in this chapet or the last did his sleeve get ripped off? i reread and dont see where it just missing in this chapter. —This unsigned comment was made by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) .
- Are you referring to the Obito in the flashback? It's in Ch 605. His sleeve was torn when he unleashed the huge Mokuton jutsu on the Kiri-nin. In 606, he'll break off from it and you can see the torn area. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 21:21, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Already shown
Obito's means of finding anyone at any given time is due to the artificial body that he has. By communicating with other hidden zetsu or the black/white zetsu telepathecally he is able to find and locate any person. Should this be added to his profile ? --Naruto6paths (talk) 20:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
For more reference, see chapter 604 on page 8. --Naruto6paths (talk) 20:12, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
The several Zetsu can do it, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet. If he could simply learnt stuff directly through Zetsu, he wouldn't have heard from a white Zetsu words of when B and Naruto left the island turtle, and it would also mean that there are several Zetsu scattered around the globe constantly. There weren't that many Zetsu during Madara's last days, or through the majority of the series run. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
Technique Flaw
PLease answer and don't delete. If Obito's teleportation and intangibility are the same thing, how come he doesn't show the swirly thing when he phases through attacks?--Asian711 (talk) 20:35, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
- Probably so we know the difference, or because it would be too time consuming to draw. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
His Age
Shouldn't his age be updated? It still says he's 13 in the profile... 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:19, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
- No. See previous sections and past archives. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:36, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
Naruto's Parallel
Maybe it's just me, but that's how I see it (not my idea as it's kinda copied from some guy, but I agree):
- Both ignored by their peers in the Academy
- Both dreamed of being recognized by the village and becoming Hokage
- Both following their masters will of bringing peace to the world: Jiraiya and Madara
- Both extremely good at convincing and manipulating people with their words (talk no jutsu)
- Both in love triangle with their respective teammates
- Both were loudmouths
- Both wore googles
- Both wore blue and orange colored clothes
- Obito has Sharingan, Naruto has Kurama (Sharingan controls Kurama, Kurama "gifted" to Naruto so he can fight "Tobi")
- Menma in AU has a similar goal/plan and is later possessed by "Tobi"
I guess they are partially opposites, and Kishi is trying to show us that if it wasn't for Naruto finding friends/support, he would turn into something similar, from a "savior" into a "destroyer"--Elveonora (talk) 15:53, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe. So?— UltimateSupreme ƒ(♫) 15:57 UTC, Tuesday, 6 November 2012
- A trivia, perhaps?--Elveonora (talk) 15:59, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm... do we really write trivia like that anywhere?— UltimateSupreme ƒ(♫) 16:02 UTC, Tuesday, 6 November 2012
- A trivia, perhaps?--Elveonora (talk) 15:59, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, okay. Just thought it to be interesting... how do you define "junk trivia?" --Elveonora (talk) 16:40, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Personally I think it could be added, but not in that way. The whole thing it could be summarized in 1 or 2 lines. However I would wait the closure of Obito as character before add it. If this (pretty obvious) parallelism is confirmed or mentioned in a Interview to Kishimoto, I think there wouldn't be problem to add it as we would have a trustworthy reference.Adept-eX (talk) 17:29, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
@Adept, you are right. Maybe it's too early for that, but one can't deny the similarities. Maybe there's gonna be one whole chapter for that...--Elveonora (talk) 20:57, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
A really shortened version of that is already canon, Itachi made that comparison. That's all that's needed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, you are right. Is it mentioned somewhere?--Elveonora (talk) 22:49, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Addition to the Quotes section
I think that Obito's sentence about his new nindo displayed in the chapter 608 [whatever shinobi you are, you are always trash in this world], should be whorthy to be added in the Quotes section.--JK88 (talk) 14:30, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
Second Sixth Paths? I think not.
Obito is not the second sixth paths. If fact, he might as well be the fourth. Madara Uchiha is the second Sixth paths because he awakened the Rinnegan and then gave them to Nagato, making him the third sixth paths.--184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:20, December 15, 2012 (UTC)David
How do you know?220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:22, December 15, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
That's there because that's what Obito claimed around the time he fought Konan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:27, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
@Omni, but we know that he referred to Madara.--Elveonora (talk) 20:42, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
- He was referring to himself, as Madara. Nonetheless he did mean Madara but at the same time I can understand where Omni's coming from. Mayhaps we should just remove the title from Obito's article altogether, so neither of them have it there. Because lets say, without Obito saying so directly, we change it and state that "while under the guise of Madara..." that opens us up to the possibility of "what else did Obito say as Madara but meant himself, could we accidentally transcribe".--Cerez365™(talk) 15:29, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
"second six paths" basically translates into "second person to have awoken the Rinnegan" (hopefully the grammar is right) and we are 100% certain that it was Madara, with Nagato as 3rd to do so and Obito didn't awake anything. Despite being a transplant, Nagato still had to "activate" the eyes, while Obito is like Kakashi's case--Elveonora (talk) 20:03, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
So basically, we all agree that it was Madara Uchiha, who is the Second Sixth Path. Shouldn't someone change that in the article box thing?188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:21, December 20, 2012 (UTC)David
People agree but they don't want to change it, logic much--Elveonora (talk) 04:32, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
- RL stands atop this Wiki. And they could be trying to see if anyone else has something to add before making the change.184.108.40.206 (talk) 04:45, December 21, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
Yeah, this is piss-poor logic. It's just a title that essentially holds no true value. If you're going to remove the Second Six Paths, you may as well remove Madara Uchiha as his alias as well because he's obviously not the Uchiha clan leader either. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 07:24, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
- He used to be.22.214.171.124 (talk) 14:49, December 21, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
Lol. No, he never was Madara... --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 00:27, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
@Suraku, good point. So it's there because he called himself as such, not because he is, right? But then I dunno how to handle this. Madara is clearly 2nd Rinnegan user after Sage--Elveonora (talk) 01:21, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
Obito isn't a descendant of Madara [necessarily]
It's junk trivia since Kishi never confirmed how closely related they are. Forefathers doesn't always have to mean someone you're directly related to, all it looked like Obito meant was that Madara was a forefather of the clan. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:29, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Right. Though I agree with
|Madara is NOT the forefather of the entire Uchia clan. He is a member just like any one else; he did not give birth to the clan, and just like any other family, he has a direct line of relatives
- Madara did not not give birth to everyone in the clan. He was a member just like any one else granted he is more famous. Unless he and Izuna gave birth to all those other clan members that used to fight the Senju. There is absolutely no difference between this situation and say the one with Tsunade or Nawaki's relationship with Hashirama. I'm not saying he definitely is but the fact that Obito went as far as to say my [precious] forefather should at least be worth a mention.--Cerez365™(talk) 11:20, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Obito is Madara's descendant... if he meant of more clan members, he would have said: "our ancestor Madara Uchiha?"--Elveonora (talk) 15:52, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
- There really isn't any place else to put it. It can be interjected in some places referring to him as his ancestor but there's no section where it "fits". As for Elveonora's question he shouldn't have called him an ancestor at all, just relative and maybe not prescious.--Cerez365™(talk) 16:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure if Obito was directly related to Madara, it would count as a pretty important plot twist that Kishimoto would elaborate more on, but that's irrelevant. And Elveonora, I find it kind of funny that you're declaring Madara to be Obito's ancestor like it's an undeniable fact, especially after all the times you used the, "Until Kishi confirms it, it's just speculation" logic when used against a theory you don't like. Is it suddenly okay to confirm Obito's lineage to Madara without having more information from the man himself? I still think we should leave it out of trivia.. especially because all the Uchiha are related, even distantly, and the word ancestor would logically apply to Madara with all the clansman, not just Obito. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:20, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
Madara can't be an ancestor to all the Uchiha, there were others before him, along with him and after him... unless you think that the latest Uchiha were all from a line that inbred from Madara/Izuna's child, you silly--Elveonora (talk) 07:07, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
|An ancestor or forebear is a parent or (recursively) the parent of an ancestor (i.e., a grandparent, great-grandparent, great-great-grandparent, and so forth). Ancestor is "any person from whom one is descended..."
That is what I take the word ancestor or forefather to mean. I suppose people also mistakenly think that Hashirama fathered the entire Senju clan as well? Also, the story isn't over just yet which means there's more than ample time to find out Madara's lineage, this isn't speculation drawn on absolutely no basis, it was said in the manga. I also don't think that a man like that wanting to leave a lasting impression on the world would not have fathered a child. Then again, he did intend to live forever (and he's bat s#!+ crazy) so you never know. Fact of the matter is, we could be right and Obito is his direct descendant or we could have just been blowing the phrase "my precious ancestor/forefather" out of proportion. Only time will possibly tell.--Cerez365™(talk) 08:24, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
Also M4ND0N, he would have used "former clan leader" if he didn't mean family relation. (not to speculate, but Sasuke's resemblance to both Izuna and Madara might hint on something) and unless we believe that there was some hardcore incest going on in the clan, Obito and Madara are directly related. Another hint might be "Now I know why Madara chose you" since Obito is of his blood, he expected him to possess potential. Also don't tell me Madara, the handsome guy and leader of Uchiha didn't have any affair with women ;D--Elveonora (talk) 08:55, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
There was already a lot of incest going on in the Uchiha clan, if you think about it. In Japan it's accepted for cousins to marry [for some reason] and the Uchiha families are all related, albeit distantly but they still mate and have kids together. So really, Madara is absolutely related to Obito, as is he related to Sasuke, Itachi, Shisui, etc. That goes the same for all the other Uchiha alive in Madara's time, because they're all related under the same clan, the same kekkei genkai [bloodline release. genetics, people.] so Obito was right about Madara being his forefather, but could mean distant uncle, great great great grandfather, etc. We can't know for sure, that's why I think it's junk trivia. I should also remind you guys that Obito didn't call Madara his ancestor, he called him his forefather.
"1. An ancestor. See Synonyms at ancestor. 2. A person who is from an earlier time and has originated or contributed to a common tradition shared by a particular group. " So he could've meant Number 2, which fits the bill pretty well since they're part of the same clan. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:51, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
Obito used Izanagi against to counter Amaterasu.
Obito used Izanagi to counter Sasuke's Amaterasu. First of all, notice that Amaterasu clearly hit Obito's clothing.
The flames then spread and even burned at his face and bigger portions of his body.
After that you see some time passes by and he even lets out a death rattle.
After that he comes out with completely intact clothing. No damage whatsoever. This is just how Danzo's clothes were also reformed when he was brought back to life. Itachi already knew how Obito's Space-Time works since Konan knew about it. There's no way Itachi would make such a mistake. He was going for a surprise attack in hopes of killing Obito and he succeeded, but did not count on Obito having Senju cells and Izanagi. This is why Obito said he managed to hide some secrets from Itachi or he'd be dead.
This follows in line with Kishimoto's style of giving clues to the most powerful techniques before we actually see them. He did that with Amaterasu when Itachi used it on the giant frog. Basically Obito trolled two people who had managed to find a way around his space time with Izanagi: Konan and Itachi. Orochimagus (talk) 07:30, February 12, 2013 (UTC)OrochimagusOrochimagus (talk) 07:30, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
- This is complete speculation. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 07:36, February 12, 2013 (UTC) In what way or form is this speculation? Look at it again, Omega. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:05, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
I'm with Omega. There is absolutely no indication thus far in the manga that Itachi was aware of his Kamui either. The only vague hint given is that he reaffirmed Tobi "slipping through the Uchiha's defense" in chapter 590. Aside from that, Tobi was never seen using Kamui around Itachi. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:46, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
And can you explain to me how Obito can use Kamui on something that has contact with his body. As we know what is already touching him would leave with him. Kamui is out of the question. It also does not explain Obito's slow groaning and death cry. And where is the burn damage to his clothes? Kamui can't repair clothes. o.O' —This unsigned comment was made by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) .
Suraku, have you even looked at those pictures? Or even remotely pondered it? Look at the facts, they're right there. Just because he didn't use it around him doesn't mean he didn't know about it. As Obito/Tobi said to Sasuke "Leave it to Itachi to set a post-mortem trap, I can't believe how well he plans ahead..." But Itachi didn't know that Obito knew about the Izanagi that he learned from Madara. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 07:35, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
Obito's Current Ambitions
I don't feel that it is completely accurate to say he actually cares about Rin anymore. He has not expressed a single desire in reuniting with her since adopting the Madara persona and becoming an adult. If anything, he's constantly showing his passion about creating a new world void of the current shinobi system/where people don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves. Even his reasoning for becoming what he is today wasn't too convincing: "If I had to say why...."
Sure, she definitely played a role into his antagonism, but does she still matter to him now? I think the "love for Rin remained" statement should be removed until we find out what exactly entails for him in the Eye of the Moon Plan, if anything other than the aforementioned ambitions. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 00:15, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
Ugh, he wants to recreate Rin in an illusionary world and make sweet love with her ;D If he didn't care about that, he wouldn't hesitate to throw his life away to revive Madara, if the plan itself was all he cares about.--Elveonora (talk) 01:09, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
Just because he wants to be there to witness the new world (not sacrificing his life for Madara) of harmony and stability doesn't necessarily mean he wants to reproduce Rin in said "reality" so he can finally be together with her. If it were that simple, if all he wanted was a mere girl brought back to life, he could've invested in Edo Tensei (he clearly knew of its existence before Kabuto) or given someone the Rinnegan and made someone sacrifice their life for hers via Rinne Tensei, but instead that jutsu was intended to be used for Madara, whom he supposedly doesn't even consider an ally.
I mean honestly, look at this man now. I don't know about you, but I just can't see him cuddling and loving another human being. Oh, and I also find it a bit odd that there are several scenes of Rin in the collaboration of images in the world which he afterwards states "I don't care about it anymore." Regardless, my point remains that he has yet to blatantly state "I want to be with Rin" or any other words that lead to him currently giving a shit about his former female teammate. It just seems too ambiguous at this time to comprehend Obito's true passions. Despite his mask being destroyed and learning about his identity, there's still quite a bit of mystery that remains about him. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 07:02, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
- He wants both, Rin and a new world full of peace. And this is not a forum~ UltimateSupreme 07:54, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
There's no point in reviving the real Rin since as stated, he doesn't care about "this" world anymore. Also Rin loved Kakashi, she would definitely not love him if she saw what a monster he has become. He can recreate Rin in the genjutsu world to his own liking (it's not love, it's something sick, forced/one-sided obsession) as I said, if he didn't care about "Rin" there would be no point in him living. He doesn't care about world peace, he just wants his own personal perfect world--Elveonora (talk) 17:08, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
Am I not explaining this clear enough? Since becoming the masked man, he has not expressed any concern for another human being, aside from Izuna. Even after stating the reason for him turning into an antagonist and joining Madara, Kakashi continues to ask if it had something to do with Rin, to which Obito doesn't respond. Everything the two of you have refuted is mere speculation. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 19:38, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
You don't understand, he doesn't care if people are alive or dead, he will recreate them in the genjutsu world, that's why life doesn't seem important to him. Remember what he said to Kakashi, if he dies or lives, he will end up in the other world anyways--Elveonora (talk) 19:57, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
Did you mean what he said about Kakashi? Because he said all that crap roughly 16 years ago. Now I'm not saying he doesn't continue to believe in that particular ideology, but after over a decade and a half and maturing mentally, we can't just automatically assume he still holds feelings for a childhood crush. People's emotions and ambitions change over time and I haven't seen Obito screaming Rin's name out at night. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:43, February 19, 2013 (UTC)
not sure how to word this, but it should definitely be mentioned somewhere in his personality how in the present, he doesn't appear to have any loyalty or respect for Madara whatsoever.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:49, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
Main Antagonist?
Given all that's happened in the past 20 chapters, is it safe to assume that Obito and Madara are two of the central antagonists of the series? When it boils down to it, everything bad that's ever happened so far in the series is directly linked to Madara through Obito. I'm just not seeing Sasuke turning into an antagonist of that caliber at this point, and the same goes for Orochimaru. Should we still list the two as major antagonists or bump them up to main? --M4ND0N (talk) 00:56, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Obito and Madara are definitely the main antagonists, Oro also isn't an antagonist during current events, he appears to be helping despite surely having an ulterior motive--Elveonora (talk) 01:03, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Indeed. Obito and Madara have proven they are the main antagonists. Obito has proven this ever since he revealed himself as "Madara". --OmegaRasengan (talk) 02:34, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Obito is essentially the epitome of Naruto's hardships. Though, I wouldn't say that Orochimaru isn't still an antagonist at this point since he threatened to attack Konoha once more. As for Sasuke, who really knows what path he will take. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 04:04, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Add immitation skills to abilities?
With the exception of Storm 2, the storm games usually stay true to voice actors the anime will use. In Storm 3 Madara has both voice actors who voiced Obito while he was acting as Madara. Can we assume Obito was faking the voice as well as the identity? If so, it should probably at least be noted in trivia. --M4ND0N (talk) 07:06, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
Oro can fake voice too, so possible--Elveonora (talk) 04:59, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
Could he really keep up with Naruto in Nine tails chakra mode? Because in NtC mode, Naruto is extremely fast, capable of dodging an attack from a lightning armored A. Is this the REAL truth?--Aeonophic (talk) 15:44, March 9, 2013 (UTC)Aeonophic
People on this wiki and elsewhere appear to be confused or something, Chakra Mode by itself doesn't give Naruto speed of light, he has to use Body Flicker along with that. Obito could keep up with Naruto's natural speed enhanced by Kurama's chakra, he dodged A's punch or what shit with Body Flicker--Elveonora (talk) 16:01, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
- boohooo elveonora, languuuaaageeee :(184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:24, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Going by logic, wouldn't Obito be four years older than Kakashi? Seeing as how they graduated on the same day?--—This unsigned comment was made by GoldenTempest (talk • contribs) .
- #His age
- #Obito's age
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 3#His age again
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 3#His age again~P2
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 3#Age
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 2#Age
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 2#Age 2
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 2#Age... Again...
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 2#His age...
- Talk:Obito Uchiha/Archive 2#Age/Appearance
Welcome to the New World, Columbus-san.--Cerez365™(talk) 04:56, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
Lack of Empathy extends to clan?
I know that Obito has no true care for anyone, but shouldn't that be included with his clan? I mean, he did help Itachi kill his clansmen (and possibly took their eyes).184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:48, April 18, 2013 (UTC)David
It's not lack of empathy, I believe he still wants Rin and even showed some affection towards Nagato. It's simply he considers the world he lives in as completely irrelevant, he is simply a mental patient case... he actually thinks himself as to be saving the world and casualties are only a little price to pay for "peace"--Elveonora (talk) 10:09, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
Affection towards Nagato? Not only did he refer to the leader of Akatsuki as merely his "minion", but he desecrated his lifeless body to acquire the Rinnegan.
As for OP's question, we don't know the motive behind him assisting Itachi in the Uchiha Clan Massacre. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 07:40, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
I was reading the Abilities section and noticed a trend. I also felt it was worth pointing out. ~SnapperTo 03:57, April 25, 2013 (UTC)
- His ability section could probbaly use a clean up. Hell so could his personality. --TheUltimate3 (talk) 04:27, April 25, 2013 (UTC)


text:
The impression of a yawning gulf between two worlds was hammered home today.
On the one side we have reckless gamblers, known as bankers, again raking in cash and handsomely rewarding themselves, on the other there is a threat of extremely severe cuts in local services.
Add that to the high levels of unemployment and the collapsing infrastructure of the nation and I can only repeat again that we are in serious danger of becoming the new serfs to the new feudal lords.
This morning's Financial Times carries a long report (Do-it-yourself warning as state cuts back) of forecasts by the most senior Local Authority professionals. So serious is the matter that we have a joint report from the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives, and the Chartered Institute for Public Finance and Accounting.
They expect a cut in local services by one third over the three years 2011, 12 and 13. With Alistair Darling forecasting government cuts of over an eighth one might wonder how George Osborne is going to ensure 'we are all in this together'! If he becomes Chancellor…
The idea of bankers paying their fair share – any share – of the 'fine mess they've gotten us into' recedes more every day. They complain that they would not be able to hold onto the best staff otherwise. To which the question must be 'Best for what?'.
"But there is undoubtedly going to be a need for individuals and families and communities to do more for themselves, along with the voluntary sector, rather than looking to the state as the provider of first resort," comment our doughty professionals.
Bankers, of course, faced no such restrictions to save their bonuses. And, to make that possible, we are seeing the price we will have to pay for a very long time. Who says 'the prices is worth it?' Not those doing the paying.
For me this raises a very important question. Who is all this for?
We are dazzled with figures about how we must trade, we must find the cheapest labour, we must become efficient. But must we?
It certainly makes company balance sheets look better. But who is that for? Not for you and me. Does it matter how cheaply goods are imported if we are out of work and unable to buy them? If just having our refuse collected costs an arm and a leg – or if it is not going to be collected at all?
It raises many questions about how we organise our world; and many questions about what is important to us as people. Over the coming years those questions will be major discussion points.
We are offered figures which show green shoots of hope. Today's double whammy from national and local government leave me feeling distinctly in depression.
Joseph Harris – Debt Control Man
Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Chevy's Mark Reuss and Jeff Gordon, driver/dealer, and their new 2013 SS. How will it race? How will it sell? (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
By Mike Mulhern
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla.
Win on Sunday, sell on Monday?
Maybe that was really an old bootlegger's motto....though the legend is that catchy sales slogan came from a Ford racer/dealer back in the 1960s who created it during the Cobra era.
And the 1960s were certainly a go-go time for Detroit car makers and high-performance cars, with GTOs, Cobras, Chevy 427s, Ford 429s, Dodge Six-packs, and for racing. Leonard Wood's 1963 Ford Galaxy, sitting right here today, over near the start-finish line, is just one more example, the Marvin Panch/Tiny Lund edition.
Back then the cars themselves were as much the stars as the drivers and teams.
In the last few years NASCAR has lost some of that.
To put it mildly.
The 'common template' car-of-tomorrow didn't sit well with drivers or fans, for some six years.
And it didn't sit well up in Detroit either.
Detroit executives made that clear to NASCAR executives. NASCAR's Mike Helton says that word was quite emphatic, and led the sport's sanctioning body to step up the transition to this new car, the much-hyped and soon-to-be debuted 2013s.
NASCAR president Mike Helton: Detroit execs made clear NASCAR had to put more Detroit into NASCAR -- "backed us into a corner and told us 'Here's what you need to be doing.'" (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
The risk was possibly to lose Detroit altogether, or some of this sport's key components. And Detroit has bailed on NASCAR before. Chevrolet dropped out in 1957. Ford and Chrysler dropped out in 1971. Dodge dropped out in 1977, returned, but dropped out again last year.
Now some in the sport might question the plusses and minuses of Detroit's engineering, as sometimes unbalancing the playing field between big teams and smaller teams.
But no one can question the marketing and advertising impact the giant car makers can bring to this sport.
Hence these 2013s.
As NASCAR's Robin Pemberton, in explaining the background for this 2013 project, which debuts in Saturday night's Unlimited/Shootout here: "There was a time (not so long ago) that we had to make sure we could survive without manufacturers."
To which NASCAR's John Darby adds "There was a time when the manufacturers were not all hot and lathered up about these race cars.
"The Gen-6 car is part of the evolution from that, and it's given us the opportunity to get the manufacturers back in the process, and to let them get all warm and fuzzy about racing.
"And they did. They're engaged like I've never seen before.
Remember those Chevy Zebras in 2013 testing. Not quite sure what that gimmick was all about (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
And that's some of the background for Chevrolet's grand unveiling of its 2013 NASCAR SS Saturday afternoon.
Long awaited (Ford, Dodge and Toyota all unveiled their own cars a year ago), the street car SS -- fresh off the boat from Australia -- roared into this track after a very curiously stealthy journey.
All the big guns were on hand, from GM president Mark Reuss (son of well-known GM engineer/president Lloyd Reuss) to racing boss Jim Campbell and an army of PR people, for this unveiling, which was broadcast around the world.
A little over the top?
Well, why not. It's NASCAR and this is Daytona...
"We built the Chevy SS specifically to race it in NASCAR," Chevy's Campbell says. "So we felt it was appropriate to unveil it at Daytona, and the France family agreed.
"We really wanted this car to have a very authentic configuration -- rear-wheel-drive, V-8, fuel-injected."
Jim Campbell, Chevrolet racing boss, armed with a photographic memory and great stage presence, plays to the Daytona crowd watching the long-awaited unveiling of the new Chevy SS (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Win on Sunday, sell on Monday?
Well, if Kasey Kahne or Dale Earnhardt Jr. or one of those Chevy guys wins the Daytona 500, you might have to wait a bit longer to get your order in.
At the moment there are none for sale, and GM execs here said the car wouldn't be for sale to the public until "late fourth quarter."
The engine will be 6.2L (376 ci) aluminum V-8, the current Corvette C-6 engine. The tires, 275/35R19s.
But no word on price. No word on any manual-shift option.
However a best-guess comparison is with the Chrysler 300 SRT8 or Dodge Charger SRT8, with a 6.4L V-8 (470 hp), at $45,000 to $47,000.
NASCAR used to have a rule that a car maker had to have at least 500 street-production models available for sale before a car could run on the track. That rule went by the wayside long ago.
Kyle Busch, heading out to Unlimited/Shootout practice, in Joe Gibbs' Toyota (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Win on Sunday, sell on Monday?
Well, just how does the U.S. auto sales world look like right now? And how does NASCAR racing fit in? (Wonder if Dodge will do any TV advertising during Daytona SpeedWeeks?)
Some straight facts:
-- Street car sales are strong and getting stronger. The 2012 sales figures were the best since 2007, and this year U.S. sales could hit 15.5 million, maybe even close to 16 million.
-- Trucks are still king in sales, Ford far ahead of the competition, Chevy is second. Toyota is, well, not really going anywhere.
-- Toyota's Camry is still the best-selling U.S. passenger car.
-- The Chevy Camaro is the best-selling muscle car, by just a nose ahead of Ford's Mustang (84,000 to 83,000).
-- World-wide, Toyota edged GM and Volkswagen in total sales (9.75 million, 9.29 million, and 9.07 million).
Hall of Famer Leonard Wood, and the 1963 Ford Galaxie that Tiny Lund drove to victory in the Daytona 500 (actually a replica Wood himself just built of the original racer) (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Reuss (who made the call to unveil this car here at a track rather than in more traditional fashion at a auto trade show) made his case for this NASCAR SS quite clear:
-- That this SS, as a rear-wheel-drive, rather than more traditional front-wheel-drive, is in the same form as the race car. "Only Chevrolet races what it sells," he boasted.
-- "Chevrolet needs the new SS," he added. "It's that simple. Chevrolet has not had a rear-wheel-drive performance sedan since 1996. That's 17 years." Reuss pointed to NASCAR racing as built on a tradition of rear-wheel-drive performance sedans.
Chevrolet's last rear-wheel-drives in this bracket -- the Caprice and Impala. Neither very sexy.
NASCAR's common template car-of-tomorrow didn't sit well with fans, drivers, crews...or Detroit (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Now the 2013 NASCAR Ford, a Fusion, is quite different from the 2012 Fusion.
And the 2013 NASCAR Toyota, again a Camry, isn't much different from the 2012 actually.
And the 2013 NASCAR Dodge is, well, officially defunct and parked in some anonymous shed near Charlotte.
But the 2013 Chevy SS is being billed as a major step forward in marketing -- to a new niche passenger car audience, 'luxury performance.'
GM is billing the SS as part of the Camaro/Corvette performance family. (The Impala, to be honest, was not really seen as boasting a performance powerhouse aura, rather more as something Mom or Grandma might drive.)
So the SS is being billed as more a four-door/four-passenger 'Corvette,' at a price point lower. Corvettes can cost up to $112,000 (for a ZR1).
It will apparently be a very limited edition.
The passenger cars will be produced in Australia, where Reuss once worked, and where the rear-wheel-drive tooling is already in place (at Australia Holden shops). Apparently it's cheaper to build these cars there and ship them, rather than tool up an American plant.
That, naturally, raises some eyebrows here....where Toyota may be seen in askance by some as a 'foreign' car maker though its Camrys are built in Kentucky and its trucks in Texas.
NASCAR officials Robin Pemberton (R) and John Darby. The men charged with making this 2013 project work. (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
That new Chevy SS, the street car version, was unveiled here Saturday, amid a heck of a lot of hoopla, and with more than a handful of Aussies on hand for the look-see-feel.
The new SS has been and still is surrounded by more than a little bit of secrecy, for some unclear reason.
Is there really a big market for a 'four-door Corvette'?
It's all a rather unusual approach perhaps.
But it sure beats some of the other models that Detroit has foisted off on stock car fans. The Lumina comes to mind. And the Taurus.
And the really unusual twist is that this Chevy SS will be built in Australia.
No, Chevy's Jim Campbell says, NASCAR will not be scheduling a Sprint Cup race in Surfers Paradise any time soon.
"We do our engineering as one team around the world," Campbell says. "In Australia the Commodore is one of the most successful models, and those engineers are very good at this architecture. And this is the same architecture as the Camaro, the same family of components."
Shipping, he says, is something all big car makers can do.
Remember last season's C-post inspection controversy at Daytona? Nothing like that so far this time around (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
Why emphasize rear-wheel-drive? Most cars on the highway are front-wheel-drive.
"We sell a number of rear-wheel-drive vehicles," Campbell says.
"Chevrolet is the number one performance brand in the industry, between the Corvette and Camaro. And we want to expand that portfolio.
"Camaro has outsold the Mustang the last three years. Corvette outsells all the high-sport competitors by a large margin.
"So we do see a market for customers who want the dynamics of a rear-wheel-drive vehicle -- which gives you certain design characteristics, with the way the engine and transmission are aligned. Longer hood to where the driver sits..."
Magic inside? Bet some teams will complain about not enough engine cooling for the Daytona 500. Will it be Ford teams, Chevy teams, or Toyota teams? (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
(Bet NASCAR has trademarked that.)
NASCAR is pushing its 2013s as Gen-6s, a moniker of perhaps liberal creativity, given this sport's 60-plus years of engineering and design work and certainly more than five previous 'generations' of race cars. Memos are flying from NASCAR HQ to teams to promote the 'Gen-6' phrase.
This 2013 NASCAR project may seem a bit rushed. It's engineering took a sharp twist only last October, when testing proved quite problematic -- drivers said they simply couldn't drive the thing, because it handled so poorly.
And to be honest there really hasn't been that much solid on-track testing of the 2013s.
Why the rush? Good question, considering Chevy's Reuss says this project really began in his offices sometime in 2009.
Well, in part the wake-up call this sport got when Dodge/Chrysler/Fiat decided to pull out.
And Volkswagen, which has vowed to become the world's biggest auto maker, has rejected any NASCAR option.
And even Toyota's situation might be considered a bit tenuous -- it's not in NASCAR to sell Camrys, but rather to sell Trucks. (The Camry is still the best selling car in the U.S., with 400,000 sold in 2012; right behind the Camry are the Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Nissan Altima, and Toyota Corolla.)
And Toyota's NASCAR-sized Tundra remains a laggard, some 100,000 in sales last year, to Ford's 650,000 for the F-series. In fact, Tundra sales figures have been rather stagnant for several years; in 2005 the company sold 126,000, in 2007 it sold 196,000, in 2009 it sold 80,000.
When Toyota jumped into NASCAR in 2004, it sold 112,000 Tundras.
Yes, the economy has gone up and down and up over the past 10 years or so.
Still, it's not really that clear that NASCAR victories drive Monday car sales.
Of course any strict interpretation of 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' misses the point that racing excellence is somehow supposed to be indicative of great work too on a company's street cars.
Brad Keselowski's crew, having a good time....so far (Photo: Getty Images for NASCAR)
I wonder are there still people out there who believe that the car in the showroom has any semblance to the car on the track? Amazing how the guys from the car companies can tell that story with a straight face. But I guess they have to.
Too many pictures. It becomes difficult to read. Some of us have an attention span longer than 140 characters. Additionally, the pictures seem to be more or less random with little relation to the text around them.
And it's GalaXIE, not Galaxy. And that's not "1963 Ford Galaxy that Tiny Lund drove to victory", it's a reproduction (though more accurate than most).
You've had a couple months to rest up, deadline fatigue shouldn't have set in before the season begins. Maybe you should do a couple of Danica/Ricky articles; everybody likes those. They must, I've read dozens of them in the last week.
This reads like a GM advertisement. Mike I know you have more knowledge of the past then you show in this column. In 1957 The AMA made an ageement that the car makers would no longer back automobile racing. Consequently all of them left NASCAR not just Chevrolet. Secondly, GM had a rear engine performance sedan in the the 2ooo's. It was called the GTO and it failed miserably in the market place. The SS is a rebadging of an Australian Holden which was not a car designed specifically for NASCAR. What is funny was when Ford announced that they were getting back into racing Chevrolet immediately announced that they were getting out of racing. What's funny was that they were supposedly out of racing because of the 1957 agreement. They called the Corvettes home from Nassau and let Junior Johnson and Rex White and Smokey Yunick go from the 427 mystery engine program. Junior continued to use the 427 throughout the '63 season but without factory support.
I guess Ford and Toyota had nothing to do with a return to supposedly factory appearing cars.
It's been pretty obvious Chevy was the more aggressive of the marques in this project; it's showing in the gripes about the louvered grille on the Ford.
What is funny is that these are advertised as factory appearing cars yet they look all the same anyway. It's because Form Follows Function.
The issues with the racecars - being too fast, making dirty air into a wall effect instead of a drafting effect (and NASCAR's absurd hatred of tandem drafting has led to attempt to create such an aero "beachball" for Daytona), handling poorly to where it interferes with passing - do not look like they're even partially solved with these new cars.
i'll have to get back to you on this; jack roush has me in a headlock at the moment, and toyota's lee white is standing right behind him smacking his fists together.....
Although you say the 500 rule in the showroom is gone, It is sad to see for the first time in NASCAR history they are allowing a Concept car on the track. The SS not being available for the public at the drop of the Green Flag, proves once again Chevy is in NASCAR's hip pocket and the farce of last Daytona and the JJ points issue, becomes more and more clear that it was a setup to divert JJ running an illegal car in 2011. If Chevy has been working this issue since 2009 why haven't they got the car on the street? What will NASCAR do when Chevy decides the economy isn't strong enough to support the "SS" and postpones it's delivery to the showroom to late 2014 or they come out and say They are not going to deliver the car altogether? When that happens I can't wait to see what the mouthpieces at NASCAR and their so called journalists have to say.
© 2010-2011 www.mikemulhern.net All rights reserved.
Web site by www.webdesigncarolinas.com


text:
Jennifer Aniston's and Justin Theroux's New Home
19 Reasons Jennifer Aniston and Justin Theroux Should Get Hitched at Home
19 Reasons Jennifer Aniston and Justin Theroux Should Get Hitched at Home
With the exciting news of Jennifer Aniston and Justin Theroux's recent engagement, we're pondering the possibility of them saying "I do" at Jennifer's latest real estate buy, a modern Bel Air mansion designed by A. Quincy Jones.
Located on over three acres, the estate boasts a guest house, pool, and private vineyard on its extensive grounds – making it an ideal venue for a private celebrity wedding. Meticulously restored, it features an open floor plan with unobstructed city and ocean views, thanks to floor-to-ceiling glass walls. With three fireplaces, four bedrooms, and six baths within the 8,500-square-foot home, Jennifer and Justin can even invite VIP wedding guests to crash at their place – while they honeymoon, of course.
Keep reading to tour the estate and decide on its wedding venue potential!


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Total: €137.80
3 256 m² In stock.
Usually ships tomorrow. For larger quantities expect 8 weeks shipping time.
Bjelin Parquet can be installed in a number of different patterns, among the most common are herringbone, ship deck, brick bond and squares.
Bjelin wood flooring comes untreated or with one of several finishes.
- Oil
- Hard Wax Oil
- Varnish/Lacquer
Select grade has less colour variation and low knot content which provides a clean and uniformed look. Great base for a clear varnish but also other types finishes. Select grade is valued for its versatility and simplicity. It has a clean and uniform appearance, perfect for modern, minimalist and traditional settings.
The rustic oak grade contains knots, pith ray, some sapwood and color variation enhancing the wood character of a herringbone pattern. The purpose of rustic grade flooring is to create a floor where character and contrasting appearance is desired. The rustic and random nature of rustic grade oak is perfect for those who prefer a more organic appearance.
Antique grade oak is a hand scraped rustic grade oak with minor cracks, defects and extra knots to create a flooring with old wood character.
The amount of waste varies with the pattern. The more elaborate patterns creates more waste.
Herringbone 10-15%
Square 10-15%
Ship deck 5% (a bit more for brick bond)
When you choose an oak plank floor, you can base your choice on a mix of look, feel and design. You want that genuine, natural look that only oak can give you. The floorboards should be wide. In fact, the wider the better. Our floorboards are extra wide – from 223 mm to 283 mm. The wood provides the room with a warm feeling of comfort, and the click locking system makes the floor easy to install. The brushed finish of the extra wide plank brings the natural vibrancy of wood to the surface. This oiled oak plank is engineered to support an extra wide board with a selection of oak grades: Select, Rustic and Antique. Rustic Oak The rustic oak grade contains knots, pith ray, some sapwood and color variation enhancing the wood character of the plank and adds a distinctive rustic or vintage character to a room. Antique Oak Antique grade contains larger knots, pith ray and sapwood and allows strong color variation. The parquet has an antique look with mesh sides. Filled and plastered cracks in the oak top layer gives the floor both charm and character. Select Oak Select grade oak is highest grade of oak we provide. It has less color variations and low knot content which provides a clean and uniform look. The surface of the plank has been made harder and easier to maintain by applying the top layer of oak using a patented curing method under high pressure and heat.
Wide planks in hardened oak are a durable and low maintenance alternative to traditional flooring. Flooring with cured wood surface leaves you with less worries. No more indents from high heels, toys or dropped objects, and no more scratches from running pets. With outstanding impact and wear resistance, these easily installed floors are suitable for virtually any room in a home or commercial area. With that said, you still experience a warm wooden floor to walk on, barefoot or with shoes on. You could feel the naked grain by touching the top of the surface and you don't have to worry about humidity, scratches or marks. By curing the wood it is exposed to reveal the true structure and feeling without compromising it's durability. No need to cover the wood with thick layers of varnish or lacquer. The curing process shields the oak from staining, but a thin layer of hard wax oil is added to make the flooring easier to maintain and clean. The hardwax oil applied on this product range is offered with a selection of pigments. From no pigment to white, grey and black. If you would like to increase the glossiness of the floor, it's possible to add layers of oil or hard wax oil after the installation.
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text:
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text:
Back in the day, my wife Amy and I would spend our summer weekends in Quogue with her sister and parents. Her father Lou is famous for his pancake breakfast, which he makes frequently. He has an electric griddle that he puts on the table so all gathered can watch the pancakes cook and enjoy them fresh off the griddle. As Amy is responsible for dinner (and just about everything else), I thought I'd better follow in her father's footsteps and learn how to make decent pancakes!
Ironically, after trying many, many pancake recipes, I ended up settling on the recipe her father uses, which was out of an ancient Better Homes & Gardens cookbook. (Another plus is the fact that it's incredibly easy to remember.) I think my only modification is to use butter instead of oil.
1 cup flour
1 tbsp. sugar
1 tsp. baking soda
1/4 tsp. salt
1/4 tsp. baking powder
Combine in a large mixing bowl. Mix together well with a metal whisk. In a separate, smaller bowl, combine:
1 cup buttermilk
1 egg
2 tbsp. melted butter
Whisk the liquid ingredients together. Now here is the secret. Add the liquid ingredients to the dry ingredients, stirring gently with a wooden spoon. Do not–I repeat, do not–use a whisk to overly blend the combined mixture. The batter should be kind of lumpy, not perfectly smooth. Smooth batter equals bad pancakes.
The key is also to use fresh baking soda and baking powder. If it's been sitting in the cupboard for two years, throw it out and spring for a brand new $2.39 box of baking soda and 99 cent box of baking soda. It will make all the difference.
If you don't have buttermilk, you can sour regular whole milk as follows. Just add two tablespoons of white vinegar to a measuring cup, then add milk to bring it to a full cup. Let sit for 5 or 10 mins.
A single batch hardly makes any pancakes, maybe 8. I usually make a triple batch for our family (on most weekends that is 4 adults + 4 kids ages 4-8). Also, better to make a bit extra, as the ingredients are so simple. Also, a quad batch is so easy to remember — a quart of buttermilk, a stick of butter, 4 eggs, 4 cups flour, etc. but that will make a lot of pancakes, so you'd better be hungry!
Lastly, you may need to add a bit of extra whole milk to thin out the batter. This really just a feel thing: you want the the batter to easily spread on the griddle, but not be a soup. Like a good risotto!
Cook pancakes on a griddle pre-heated to 325-350°. Flip them when the edges look a touch dry, and the tops are covered with little bubbles.
I should add one final thing: for me the only topping is real maple syrup. Seriously, it's almost not worth it to make pancakes without it. I hate cold syrup on hot pancakes so I heat it: get a large bowl, fill it with hot water, let the bottle of maple syrup warm up before you start to make the pancakes.


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Optics for Mathematicagicians
This is all in relation to the talk on atmospheric optics which I'll be giving this week, and is now being advertised on the regional weather website! Not quite sure how that all happened.
I wanted to create a little animation to illustrate some of the properties of a rainbow. In particular I wanted to illustrate Alexander's dark band, the dark region between a primary rainbow and a secondary. To do this you really need to understand the path of light rays going through a water droplet (thankfully water droplets are pretty close to spherical, otherwise the simple trigonometry would become significantly less trivial). I've just done the animation for the ray path for the primary bow, but this illustrates very nicely some of the properties of that bow.
The animation is in two parts. The first part looks at light rays going through a water droplet with two refractions and one reflection. At each refraction point there is a splitting in the colours, though I have only used red, yellow and blue as an example (really for best contrast).
I illustrate these paths for several impact parameters (how far the ray is from that ray which would go straight through the centre of the droplet).
The second part is then to build up the density of light rays so you can see the collective phenomenon (rather than the single path). The final diagram is that of around 100 rays coming in, in an even distribution of impact distances (which is the realistic distribution). One can see several things about this.
The first thing to notice is that none of the light comes out at a greater angle than around 43 degrees to the angle of incidence. However, in the region between about 43 and 41 degrees there is the highest density of rays coming out. The red, which is refracted least, has the highest distribution at around 43 degrees, and the blue, which is refracted most comes out at about 41 degrees. After this, the distribution (between 0 and 41 degrees) is roughly equal for all colours and therefore the light inside the bow is pretty much that of light passing through air (blue).
If you imagine what happens when you populate the sky with such droplets the overall effect is clear. You will see nothing reflected at more than 43 degrees (through single internal reflection), which will give a dark band over the top of the bow - the top of which is red. The secondary bow forms at around 50 degrees and is reversed both in colour and in the region where no light is reflected (there is no light reflected in the region below the secondary bow - giving Alexander's dark band. See here on the atopics website for a great example.
Right, now I've got to work out a good animation for the green flash!


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General Information: Towing Complaints and Appeals
Towing Complaints & Appeals
Towing Complaints and Appeals differ for Municipal Tows and Private Property Impounds. The Towing Regulated by the City of Portland Towing & PPI Program link describes the types of tows regulated by the City of Portland Towing & PPI Program.
Municipal Tows: Car towed in error: Code Hearings Officer at (503) 823-7307 (request a hearing).
Municipal Tows and PPI: if you believe that the tower has acted improperly (overcharge, rudeness, vehicle damage, etc.) please submit your complaint to our office through the online towing complaint form. Please complete the complaint form completely and specifically. Details requested help with investigating your complaint.
Vehicle Damage
Municipal Tows: File a complaint and request an inspection of the damages.
The Towing Coordinator will then appoint a panel to inspect your vehicle (the Vehicle Damage Inspection Panel (VDIP)) and send a notice of when the inspection will take place. After the damages are inspected, VDIP will provide its findings, conclusions, and remedies. VDIP determinations may be appealed within 10 calendar days.
Private Property Impounds: damage claims should be addressed with the tower directly. You may also consider a claim with your insurance carrier or in civil court.
Municipal Tows: Code Hearings Officer, (503) 823-7307
Private Property Impounds (PPI) and Vehicle Damage Determinations (VDIP):
Towing & PPI Program, Patrick Kramer, Towing Coordinator
Phone 503-865-2489 | Fax 503-865-3022