text:
I2P dev meeting, November 20, 2012 @ 20:00 UTC
Quick recap
- Present:
asdfsdafsdafsd, darrob, dg, k0e, KillYourTV, LaughingBuddah, nom, psi, st4d, thursday, user, weltende, zzz
- Network Health - IRC
Russian User Support: Russians are the top country using I2P at this time, followed by USA and Germany. We know of one dedicated Russian user that is providing help in our IRC channel #ru (also see next point). If we add to this area, that would be great. Since most of the network is russian it makes sense to make sure they get quality help so they are running their router optimally.
Complementing the above issue would be to have our irc operators redirect either #ru -> #i2p-ru or vice versa, there seems to be conflicting advice given to russian users asking for directions in this area:
KillYourTV user 'slow' fits there KillYourTV (and he's nearly always in #ru) dg btw, #ru has users, #i2p-ru does not
- Next Meeting
The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, November 27 @ 19:30 UTC (7:30PM)
Full IRC Log
20:03:41 <Laughing1uddah> Meeting time?
20:03:48 <dg> It is!
20:04:01 <k0e> checkout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJ7yck1qwY
20:04:01 <iRelay> Title: Android ICS on Raspberry Pi, Views: 139170, Rating: 99.0%
20:04:05 * dg gulps
20:04:15 <dg> okay then.. let's begin
20:04:22 <dg> our topics today are:
20:04:33 <dg> 0) Welcome
20:04:40 <dg> (0a) Changing things up
20:04:47 <dg> (Meetings, etc)
20:05:00 <dg> (1) Network health
20:05:03 <dg> (1a) IRC
20:05:10 <dg> (1b) Growth (how do we get i2p out there?)
20:05:13 <dg> (2) IRL events (CCC, Cryptoparties..)
20:05:20 <dg> (3) - Merging Fux improvements into trunk
20:05:23 <dg> (4) Website
20:05:26 <dg> (4a) - Mirroring..
20:05:33 <dg> (4b)- SSL
20:05:36 <dg> (5) - Progress
20:05:39 <dg> (6) - Next meeting
20:05:50 <dg> (7) - Any other notes from participants, etc
20:05:50 <dg> bit of a mouthful!
20:06:28 <dg> I'm hoping we have enough people here today
20:06:43 <dg> I'm trying to base things off of past meetings
20:07:11 <dg> so uh..
20:07:26 <dg> First of all, do we have anyone from long enough ago to recap the changes (big ones, notable ons)
20:07:26 <dg> since the last meeting?
20:07:33 <dg> (It was Sept 8)
20:09:05 <nom> unlikely atm... could try a highlight all tho
20:09:24 <asdfsdafsdafsd> Hear ye, Hear ye!
20:09:27 * asdfsdafsdafsd pounds gavel
20:09:35 <dg> I'm thinking maybe KillYourTV knows a little
20:09:53 <dg> I was told welt could be here too, so hopefully he can wave at some time
20:09:56 <dg> (no sign of zzz either)
20:10:09 <dg> This will be somewhat awkward without most of the team
20:10:23 <asdfsdafsdafsd> The honorable asdfsdafsdafsd is now presiding
20:10:25 <iRelay> * weltende@freenode waves
20:10:37 <dg> :)
20:10:37 <dg> Okay
20:10:48 <zzz> here
20:10:51 <dg> So, first of all, as some of you may know, this is the first meeting in 2 years
20:11:04 <dg> And even the last meeting was specalized
20:11:08 <dg> specialized*
20:11:30 <dg> I'm planning on booting up regular meetings to catch up on progress, etc, even if there is no big topic to discuss
20:12:01 <dg> wrt "change", I'm contemplating taking up Project Manager
20:12:04 <dg> or at least some sort of co-ordinator
20:12:28 <dg> I'm proud of the progress that was made with dr|z3d although sadly, I don't think he's ready to join in -dev again just yet (speak, even)
20:12:54 <dg> I can't comment on progress from the last 2 years since I haven't been here for that long
20:12:57 <dg> If somebody else could, I'd appreciate it
20:13:04 <dg> <pause for $person>
20:13:18 <nom> might have to wait for netsplit to unsplit
20:13:25 <dg> might be a good idea :-/
20:13:36 <nom> hehe
20:13:51 <LaughingBuddah> While we wait, what happened dr|z3d?
20:13:54 <LaughingBuddah> what happened with*
20:13:57 * nom pokes the intertubes
20:14:13 <dg> There we go.
20:14:20 <dg> Let me paste what they missed.
20:15:42 <dg> this is painful haha
20:16:09 <dg> ok, netsplit folk: http://pastethis.i2p/show/2297/
20:16:12 <iRelay> Title: Paste #2297 | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
20:16:12 <dg> <+dg> I can't comment on progress from the last 2 years since I haven't been here for that long
20:16:15 <dg> <+dg> If somebody else could, I'd appreciate it
20:16:15 <dg> <+dg> <pause for $person>
20:16:27 <dg> LaughingBuddah: alright
20:16:53 <dg> Basically, after dr|z3d was kicked out for a long period, etc etc, I raised the point that he should be unmuted in -dev as we're all on the same team here, etc
20:17:00 <dg> He doesn't seem to be up to joining us again yet though
20:17:06 <nom> Complication: KillYourTV badger darrob dg gatekeeper iRelay Meeh postman RN_ Shinobiwan slow sponge str4d albat asdfsdafsdafsd Astral2012_1 Biotrophy blitzkrieg christoph cipher__ dr4wd3- eight_ joepie95 k0e kytv|away LaughingBuddah lezz luminosus MTN nom operhiem1 PrivacyHawk psi SanguineRose soundwave thursday tycho usr w8rabbit woox2k Xtothec zzz meeting time people
20:17:14 <LaughingBuddah> Nono, I was wondering why he was kicked out
20:17:21 <dg> I wanted him to have the choice to in any case, even if he didn't *want to right now*
20:17:21 <dg> Oh
20:17:28 <dg> There were disagreements with the team a while back
20:17:35 <SanguineRose> I'm not here, I am invisible
20:17:38 <LaughingBuddah> I see
20:17:38 <dg> It turned into quite a big disagreement after small ones added up
20:17:53 <dg> It's lead to a pissing contest and a division of the community to an extent :-P
20:17:56 <dg> not nice
20:18:03 <LaughingBuddah> Alright. Proceed :)
20:18:06 <nom> ha! you may be invisible but we can hear you :P
20:18:17 <dg> I'll give the $person a few more seconds to appear..
20:18:20 <SanguineRose> lies, you can not read what I am thinking right now!
20:18:27 * dg sits awkwardly
20:18:44 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: yeah.. in dr|z3d and !dr|z3d mostly *cough*
20:18:48 <dg> Clearly nobody is wishing to recite history.. heh
20:18:51 * nom lounges awkwardly while reading SanguineRose's mind
20:18:57 <dg> Okay
20:19:16 <nom> meh, figure out history later when the historian decides to show up
20:19:23 <dg> so
20:19:23 <dg> (1) - network health
20:19:45 <dg> From what I've seen on the stats, we're doing okay on that front, although since the Russians left (rusleaks disappeared in general), there's been a drop
20:19:52 <dg> Returning to pre-rus levels (hah)
20:20:05 <dg> Hopefully zzz is available to comment on how we're doing on this front..
20:20:29 <nom> imo network health is opaque, but based just on netsplits it could be better...
20:21:06 <zzz> it's shaky but kytv and I last night found the bug introduced in 0.9.2 causing all the trouble
20:21:21 <dg> zab and I have doubts about something so simple causing the issues though
20:21:27 * nom :| at timing
20:21:30 <asdfsdafsdafsd> ugh... split
20:21:36 <dg> >.>
20:21:48 <nom> zzz: what was the bug?
20:21:54 <dg> i guess that's the network speaking to us
20:22:13 <zzz> we accidentally cut the capacity of the network in half.
20:22:53 <LaughingBuddah> haha
20:23:04 * dg didn't see much of a difference on the tunnel success rates but you seem a lot more confident about it fixing things
20:23:07 <nom> lol rather unfortunate bug
20:23:14 <dg> ^
20:23:21 <dg> I suppose we're doing alright on that front
20:23:44 <zzz> it's a network thing. You can't fix the network by just upgrading yourself.
20:23:50 <KillYourTV> of course one person upgrading to -10 will fix ALL the problems ;)
20:23:59 <dg> I can't comment for (1a) (IRC) because I've obviously been unable to contact badger
20:23:59 <KillYourTV> bah, I was too slow
20:23:59 <dg> KillYourTV: of course, haven't you heard of Java music?
20:24:02 <dg> *magic
20:24:02 <dg> pfft
20:24:13 <dg> (and i've been unable to contact postman, I was too late to get ech too..)
20:24:17 <dg> so that was a mess up on my part
20:24:51 <dg> (1b) then.
20:24:55 <dg> "
20:24:58 <dg> (1b) - Growth (how to make i2p grow more, developments with Russia (how do we get ourselves out there? outreach to big rus-sites?)) "
20:25:01 <nom> - if (style.equals("udp"))
20:25:01 <nom> + if (style.equals("SSU"))
20:25:01 <dg> Pretty broard
20:25:04 *** eight_ is now known as eight
20:25:07 <nom> ? that the bug?
20:25:24 <dg> (and there's a variable changed)
20:25:36 <zzz> thatsit
20:25:58 <dg> What was the commit excuse for that, anyway?
20:25:58 <dg> (in 0.9.2)
20:26:59 <k0e> regarding russian users, I think a big question is how is the #i2p-ru channel here doing? Are the russian users getting good support as compared to when english speakers come here and receive help
20:28:13 <LaughingBuddah> Do we have someone familiar with i2p that speaks russian?
20:28:24 <LaughingBuddah> Maybe even a dev?
20:29:02 * nom wanted to learn russian at one point, but never found the time...
20:29:21 <KillYourTV> user 'slow' fits there
20:29:32 <k0e> and on a sidenote, german looks to be the 3rd largest country after russia and USA
20:29:35 <str4d> slow hangs out there, right?
20:29:35 * nom thinks we need to go hunting for a russian and english speaking user who is dev inclined
20:29:38 <KillYourTV> (and he's nearly always in #ru)
20:29:53 <nom> nvm guess we found one
20:30:22 <LaughingBuddah> GOod
20:31:48 <nom> wrt growth generally, i would say working out all the network stability / performance bugs is a good step
20:32:09 <nom> also more content = more users = more content, sharing is caring and all that
20:32:28 <LaughingBuddah> What he said ^
20:33:02 <dg> #i2p-ru is dead
20:33:02 <dg> zab is able to convert RU->EN but not EN->RU
20:33:16 <dg> btw, #ru has users, #i2p-ru does not
20:33:31 <dg> while working out bugs is great
20:33:42 <dg> We've certainly got a community based issue and I have not the slightest clue how to solve it
20:33:49 <nom> so yah.. everyone upload their media stashes to postman, and run high cap routers
20:34:13 <dg> i wish it was that simple
20:34:27 <dg> I guess this kind of includs IRL meetings
20:34:34 <dg> We've got a bunch of i2p-folk going to CCC this year
20:34:52 <dg> I think an "i2p workshop" is the best way to utilize this since it is too late to book a talk
20:35:02 <nom> lol yah increasing content is never simple, but good to remind people
20:35:18 <k0e> dg: suggest, maybe you can talk to eche|on and postman about combining those two channels (redirect to one of them)
20:35:18 <dg> i2p is barely out there like Tor
20:35:53 <dg> k0e: noted, will look into it later, thanks :)
20:36:16 <nom> re irl community meetings, at conferences and such, yah there needs to be more of it. ideally with the organizers staying connected to those of us back home in i2p, with videos and blogs, etc
20:36:55 <dg> Not sure how we could reach out to the russians, but someone could try speaking to the censored websites
20:36:59 <dg> prominent ones which are controversial, etc
20:37:06 <dg> Sadly, rusleaks is absolutely gone
20:37:09 <dg> So we can't rely on that
20:37:34 <dg> I tried reaching out to the an*on folk but I was unable to get on their networks anonymously so that was a little redundant
20:38:21 <LaughingBuddah> Let's move on
20:38:36 <darrob> i don't know about the reaching out, dg. does tor do that? this going from door to door advertising doesn't seem right.
20:38:43 <dg> Okay.
20:39:04 <dg> darrob: They don't do the door-to-door, and us doing that officially isn't right either. I was going to just encourage them a little.
20:39:22 <dg> LaughingBuddah: sure.
20:39:29 <str4d> Doc improvements would help a lot.
20:39:41 * dg was thinking about that earlier
20:39:44 <dg> I wasn't sure on the standards of them
20:40:51 <nom> yah doc improvements, and also some rigorous security testing could go a long way towards user growth
20:41:25 <dg> actually, we missed out on security testing due to lack of recent docs
20:41:35 <dg> of course, we couldn't have done anything since doc improvement took a while but yeah
20:42:09 <dg> Right now, the only way to say i2p is safer than something heavily audited e.g Tor is to read all the code + design yourself
20:42:15 <dg> That's fine for those who are wise in that area but bs for users
20:42:25 <dg> i2p has had little academic research too
20:42:35 <nom> imo at least, most users of this kinda thing want to get into the details of how it works and how secure it is. the threadmodel page is useful, but their not the results of extensive testing
20:42:46 <dg> Of course, you can't exactly force academics to write papers on i2p..
20:42:57 <dg> nom: I agree.
20:43:19 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: that's not really true anymore imho
20:43:38 <dg> hm?
20:43:45 <nom> lol .... i suppose we could try to blackmail some grad students into writing papers on i2p \o/
20:43:55 <dg> $5 wrench
20:44:08 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> ah.. just got an mail of an talk about i2p @ athens cryptoparty #0
20:44:24 <dg> oh, nice. I was wondering about Cryptoparty
20:44:27 <dg> Tor has been heavily featured at them
20:44:41 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: there are a few papers about i2p.. (remember that tum i2p paper for example? ;)
20:44:50 <asdfsdafsdafsd> I doubt many academics will write papers or advocate I2P.... they're all in league with the globalists
20:45:44 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> asdfsdafsdafsd: academics won't promote anything except their own software they are working on atm ;-)
20:45:48 <dg> i2p, not so much
20:46:28 <dg> The only papers I've seen about i2p are the french and correlation with headers/clocks
20:46:48 <dg> moving on
20:46:55 <asdfsdafsdafsd> weltende... exactly
20:47:02 <dg> "(3) - Discussion regarding merging current fux with trunk "
20:47:14 <nom> soooo.... gsoc? seems like security testing would be a good thing for that
20:47:17 <dg> I'm not sure if anyone can give a real answer to this apart from zzz
20:47:35 *** str4d is now known as str4d_afk
20:47:46 <dg> for those of you not aware, fux is a branch of i2p dev'd by str4d among others with user interfaces improvements. Theme improvements, that kind of thing.
20:47:49 <dg> nom: nobody wants to do gsoc
20:47:56 *** str4d_afk is now known as str4d
20:48:13 <dg> nom: zzz is on trac as a mentor but he apparently doesn't want to have a student
20:48:24 <zzz> sorry dg, all I know is 2-3 months old. last I heard, they were forking?
20:48:27 <dg> (not sure if correct, that's what I was told)
20:48:43 <zzz> wrong
20:48:58 <nom> no kidding, probably why it hasn't got done, but its a resource that gives access to the kind of people that could actually do a security assessment
20:49:24 <dg> zzz: There was some discussion of a fork, it's kind of died down now as some people have had a change of heart. Not sure what's going to be going on there, I don't think anyone is. Regarding the current changes though, I feel they could be somewhat beneficial. Nothing massive/feature breaking in there, however.
20:49:34 <dg> zzz: also, wrong?
20:49:38 <str4d> I am happy to mentor for GSoC
20:50:09 <dg> nom: Yup.
20:50:21 <dg> str4d: We could apply for next year, the application for 2010(?) is still up on trac.
20:50:25 <zzz> re: gsoc: wrong as in I'm happy to help but I'm not going to be in charge and not going to do it myself.
20:50:43 <dg> totally different to what i heard
20:50:53 <dg> key word: heard, I suppose
20:51:05 <dg> relevant trac page: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/gsoc
20:51:32 <zzz> dg re: fux, you're asking the wrong guy. I have no recent info.
20:51:39 <nom> imo fork is both exactly what is happening and exactly what is not happening, zzz you 'control' the official i2p.i2p branch in that you give out commit keys, but theres always gonna be people/groups writing their own features/code into i2p, if theres no interest in merging it stays a 'fork' but otherwise its not really
20:52:01 <dg> zzz: generally asking if you'd be ok with merging some of the themes, etc
20:52:04 <str4d> AFAIK there is nothing stopping mentors being anon, but we need a contactable liason (not sure if they must be non-anon) and some tax form as an organization.
20:52:23 <dg> Right.
20:52:37 <dg> I'm fine with being a liason but I'm sure a few people would be.
20:52:56 <dg> Tax form .. ugh
20:53:05 <LaughingBuddah> We will need some people to agree to be the face of i2p
20:53:24 <str4d> IIRC there was a USA-based one, or a Foreign-based one.
20:53:31 <dg> sadly we can't avoid that, LaughingBuddah..
20:53:59 <dg> I don't want to be the guy trying to force people to give up anonymity and get up on stages but
20:54:18 <dg> We do need someone who wants to and can fulfill the job
20:54:41 <zzz> dg the last I looked at it was months ago. It was a big grab bag of stuff and I had some objections. Nobody has since asked me to look again - or spilt out the bad from the good - or given me any updates - or mentioned any progress about addressing my issues.. Unless that happens I have no update for you and i assume they are either working on it or forking.
20:54:49 <str4d> (Might not have been tax, but it was something financial)
20:54:52 <str4d> Not sure what was done in 2010 for that.
20:55:19 <dg> zzz: Alright, if I can get them to talk about it etc, I may be able to get you an update.
20:55:27 <dg> just a note
20:55:30 <dg> http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/gsoc/ideas
20:55:37 <dg> seems quite interesting
20:55:40 <iRelay> Title: gsoc/ideas – I2P (at trac.i2p2.i2p)
20:55:44 <zzz> so I repeat, you are asking the wrong guy. If you want to know about status, ask the guys working on it, not me.
20:56:07 <dg> I was asking if you'd be okay with merging is all, if they co-operated.
20:56:19 <dg> I felt that the changes could benefit i2p somewhat.
20:56:34 <dg> welcome psi
20:56:41 <psi> ??
20:56:48 <dg> dev meeting
20:56:55 <psi> ok
20:57:36 <dg> The application for GSOC seems solid
20:57:39 <dg> Could possibly reuse it
20:57:39 <nom> zzz: what were the issues you needed addressed?
20:59:54 <str4d> There was an image in a dark theme that has since been replaced. Were there any other major issues?
21:00:17 <psi> ah yes... the assange character should've been removed for now
21:00:20 <psi> s/for/by
21:00:35 <dg> What's wrong with Assange? :P
21:00:46 <zzz> the main thing in remember is regressions in legibility and color choices, esp. in snark. But it's been months since I looked at it
21:00:49 <darrob> nom: you should try to find logs. it would be hard to recall or summarize. (for me, anyway, and i tried to give feedback, too).
21:00:56 <zzz> I felt it was a big step backwards
21:01:18 <KillYourTV> http://killyourtv.i2p/irclogs/%23i2p-dev.2012-08-23.log.html
21:01:21 <iRelay> Title: #i2p-dev logs for Thursday, 2012-08-23 (at killyourtv.i2p)
21:01:32 <dg> seems too late to enter gsoc this time now
21:01:43 <psi> regardless... i think we need a "real life" UI testing mechanism that isn't totally subjective
21:01:47 <dg> or uh, next year's are not open (what i mean)
21:01:54 <dg> psi: exactly
21:01:57 <psi> this is where users like Zorya come into play
21:02:12 <psi> Zorya especially is the perfect feedback tool for UI stuff
21:02:35 <nom> re assange, imo hes a cool dude, but as he 'officially' has nothing to do with i2p, we shouldn't be using his image on stuff... unless its like something related to him or wikileaks...
21:02:38 <psi> "regular" or "casual" users are VERY important and should be utilized for feedback
21:02:41 <zzz> but if the fux guys dont remember my objections either, then they probably haven't addressed them, and we're in the same place we were 3 months ago.
21:02:51 <psi> nom: i2p is politically neutral
21:03:37 <str4d> zzz, I recall your legibility issues, and I still think that is more a personal preference matter (since there are clear examples of people both liking and disliking the changes)
21:03:49 <nom> psi: right... if such a thing is possible
21:03:52 <psi> nom: no need to take any stance on things that are politically sensitive anywhere
21:03:59 <str4d> and color*
21:04:02 <str4d> The major issue was the image, and that has been addressed.
21:04:13 <nom> pretty sure were taking a stand about anonymity and free exchange of data tho....
21:04:35 <str4d> psi, what's Zorya?
21:04:42 <asdfsdafsdafsd> assange is cointelpro
21:04:53 <dg> a person, not sure who/what they do though
21:04:53 <KillYourTV> I can say that when I last looked a few weeks ago, the constrasts in snark weren't nearly as jarring as they had been.
21:04:53 <psi> str4d: Zorya is a user in this channel
21:05:15 <psi> str4d: a "regular" user in jester's group
21:05:15 <zzz> so none of my issues were addressed? (except perhaps the assange image)
21:05:19 <zzz> then we're in the same place
21:05:38 <dg> actually, iirc, the colors were improved
21:05:42 <dg> i'm not sure they are perfect however
21:05:56 <zzz> at the time, I thought that fux was unmergable, that you should kill it and start over, separating out the good from the bad and the ugly.
21:06:08 <psi> zzz: tbh i'm not entirely sure that style issues are that critical unless they impact usability
21:06:36 <str4d> psi, ah - I read your sentence as Zorya being an automated testing tool =P
21:06:39 <dg> the best bit about fux, for me, was the framing of apps inside the console
21:06:46 <dg> i don't care as much about themes
21:07:01 <darrob> psi: that argument works for and against changes. ;)
21:07:20 <psi> darrob: correct
21:07:23 <nom> imo themes are themes and should be a basket of everyones options, if your problem is the default theme... then yah i guess i can see you not wanting to merge that... but still
21:07:23 <zzz> I gave my comments 3 months ago and havent heard anything since. If somebody would like to identify changes and ask me to look at it again, fine.
21:07:38 <dg> nom: my thoughts.
21:07:49 <zzz> you people that are saying you like some of it and dont care about the rest are missing the point completely.
21:07:49 <psi> darrob: however in its current state, the router console is in need of a redesign as it fails as a UI
21:07:52 <user> an improvement from the ui guys's side would be a UI plugin, I think.
21:08:04 <zzz> split out the good from the bad. right now it's a grab bag
21:08:11 <user> <dg> the best bit about fux, for me, was the framing of apps inside the console <<<---- that one I liked too.. gave an impression of unity
21:08:26 <dg> Made things a lot less clunky IMO, user.
21:08:56 <str4d> zzz, the point here is that there is nothing bad/ugly in fux, there is just stuff that everyone likes and stuff that some like and some don't.
21:09:07 <zzz> sounds like you guys are saying you still want to merge it but haven't done anything in 3 months?
21:09:33 <zzz> disagree. your snark changes are objectively bad/ugly.
21:09:56 <user> what's it that everyone likes? maybe one could start identifying that and only merge that
21:09:59 <psi> zzz: much has been done but that doesn't mean anything is "complete", as for something being "objectively ugly" is kind of an oxymoron
21:10:02 <nom> right well the good, the bad, and the ugly, are subjective.... imo as long its configurable personal taste of devs shouldn't come into it
21:10:24 <dg> Yes, we have?
21:10:27 <dg> In fact, I believe the color issue was also addressed.
21:10:27 <dg> see nom's comment
21:10:27 <dg> <nom> imo themes are themes and should be a basket of everyones options, if your problem is the default theme... then yah i guess i can see you not wanting to merge that... but still
21:10:27 <dg> psi: Exactly.
21:10:27 <dg> psi: It's great for nerds like us, not so much for a grandma who wants to be safe.
21:10:34 <dg> zzz: I can somewhat agree for snark but the rest, no.
21:10:45 <dg> user: the unification.
21:10:48 <dg> user: the non-default themes, too.
21:10:59 <dg> user: if it's non-default, I think it's fine to merge and improve along the way. Doesn't hurt.
21:11:06 <nom> how bout this, default keeps theme the same, but includes all the things fux adds, to use them you just set something in config?
21:11:14 <dg> ^
21:11:29 <zzz> If the people doing the work say they think it's ready for another look, I'll take a look. I have nothing more to say.
21:11:32 <psi> currently (afaik), fux is aimed at hackability and flexibility, not explicitly general pleaseability
21:11:43 <dg> alright
21:11:46 <str4d> Given the users that have said otherwise, I find that hard to take as truly objective.
21:11:46 <dg> fair enough, zzz.
21:11:46 <str4d> Nevertheless, I do agree that fux is not ready for merging dg
21:12:09 <psi> str4d: fux is no where near merging
21:12:09 <dg> str4d: all I wanted was some discussion on it to see what needed doing :)
21:12:12 <psi> not sure who suggested a merge
21:12:15 <maidenboi> i like the snark changes
21:12:26 <nom> zzz: can you agree to that principle tho? that its mergeable if you're experience/view isn't changed unless you select it to happen? ie no default changes
21:13:44 <nom> or rather, since as you said its a grab bag, that pieces are mergeable if they don't change default things and only add options
21:14:14 <psi> at the moment fux is more of a sandbox for ideas, not really meant to be merged over to mainline in its entirety
21:14:45 <psi> i don't expect fux to ever be fully merged over nor would it be a good idea
21:14:56 <dg> I wanted some parts merged
21:15:18 <psi> dg: if they are "done" then sure
21:15:25 <psi> dg: which ones?
21:15:29 <LaughingBuddah> How to we determine them to be done?
21:15:48 <str4d> dg, I agree about the changes to non-default themes being mergable, especially since the majority of changes are by the original theme author, but there are other things that need work first.
21:15:55 <user> again, plugins would be handy, as to not increase the i2p package's size unneededly.
21:16:30 <KillYourTV> One thing for sure would be the pull the fix for ticket #773. It's fine in fux; it's not fine in the vanilla builds.
21:16:37 <iRelay> http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/773 - (new defect) - Overlapping text in midnight theme
21:16:49 <psi> i do like the unified css and inline frames for snark and mail
21:16:49 <psi> especially the unified css
21:16:52 <KillYourTV> iirc LaughingBuddah reported that in this channel as well.
21:16:59 <str4d> user, that does require getting the UI separation done though (which I hope to work on with top[tabfail] when I get some time)
21:17:22 <dg> psi: mainly the embedding of things, like snark
21:17:25 <dg> LaughingBuddah: majority satisfaction
21:17:28 <psi> dg: yes i like that too
21:17:46 <str4d> dg, #define majority =P
21:17:49 <darrob> i'm confused. i was under the impression that fux was supposed to be merged (rather sooner than later even). i wouldn't have taken the time and given detailed criticism if i was told that it was just a sandbox.
21:18:00 <LaughingBuddah> KillYourTV: Yeah I remember doing that
21:18:11 <psi> darrob: my impression was that it is a sandbox
21:18:36 <psi> as i have been treating it as such so far
21:18:46 <str4d> darrob, I always intended it to be merged. But in some ways it is meant as a UI sandbox.
21:18:53 <dg> str4d: i'd like the creator of the functionality to think it's ok to merge (time to), and a lot of the fux/users with it liking it
21:19:00 <dg> darrob: so was I?
21:19:00 <dg> Anyway,
21:19:07 <dg> I think we can agree that fux needs work
21:19:22 <dg> unification + #773 fix should get merged sooner rather than later
21:19:40 <dg> Let's move on ;-)
21:19:43 <str4d> It's Future UX, so it's for testing and trying out new UX ideas, working out the kinks and polishing.
21:19:58 <str4d> +1 dg
21:20:09 <psi> str4d: that would be sandbox... moving on
21:20:37 <nom> honestly i think we need to have better communication here, theres always going to be things that are mergable, and we need people who can discuss that merging without getting into fights ;)
21:21:03 <nom> so far so win today, which is nice
21:21:06 <str4d> I also need to work out how to best merge parts of branches in monotone.
21:21:43 <KillYourTV> and yeah, it looks like assange (and the dark snark theme) are completely gone
21:21:54 <str4d> At present I only know about "propagate" and "explicit_merge", but they merge everything up to a specific commit, rather than cherry-picking changes.
21:22:24 <nom> str4d: probably something involving editing a diff down to just the parts you want
21:22:24 <str4d> KillYourTV, dark snark is not in mtn, but it's in my fux builds.
21:22:51 <KillYourTV> ah..so assange (run through a filter) may still live...
21:23:02 <dg> as for fux's issues, we can co-ordinate on that after the meeting
21:23:05 <dg> we're doing well so far though
21:23:05 * dg highfives
21:23:05 <dg> (4) - Website
21:23:09 <dg> (4a) - Mirroring i2p2.de/etc
21:23:09 <dg> (4b) - SSL for the sites.
21:23:09 <dg> We need welt for this..
21:23:09 <dg> Tor's mirroring setup is great right now, rsync etc.
21:23:09 <dg> Plus a clear list of mirrors and how to do it
21:23:09 <dg> nom: Yeah.
21:23:09 <dg> nom: We did well now, just that we have other issues to discuss so.. ha
21:23:31 * dg coughs
21:24:21 <nom> right, re website.... same as before re docs i guess, theres good info, but it feels like it hasn't been touched in a while
21:24:36 <dg> precisely my feelings
21:24:39 <dg> it seems very out of time
21:24:49 <str4d> KillYourTV, no - did you not read my earlier message?
21:25:03 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: rsync master thingy is already running
21:25:46 <str4d> nom, that seems a bit hacky... I'd prefer a solution that still allowed for a "propagate" at a later stage once the other branch was exactly as wanted.
21:25:46 <dg> I've noticed some issues between how things really are and what the website says
21:26:24 <psi> in general the website seems to feel old and the "revamp" last i checked looks really good
21:26:28 <nom> str4d: yah... could separate each mergeable thing into its own branch and merge that i suppose, and keep fux as a sandbox/catch all
21:26:52 <dg> weltende: not documented anywhere, iirc
21:26:59 <dg> psi: we should speed up on the revamp
21:27:05 <dg> the current one feels extremely stale
21:27:12 <psi> dg: priorities
21:27:23 <nom> like use fux as a test branch, when something is ready to be included as its own component, separate the branch and merge it there, also so you can maintain it as its own thing
21:27:32 <psi> dg: what has more importance? website or the software?
21:27:43 <str4d> There does need to be improvement of the website content. I've been working on layout and structure in i2p.www.revamp but haven't touched the content (otherwise propagations would be a nightmare), so that needs working on in i2p.www
21:27:46 * str4d is still not happy with the design of the revamp, but that is not the focus right now - proper content structuring so that (a) new content can be easily added, and (b) users can find what they want easily, is the main focus
21:28:15 <thursday> Could we set up a blog on the official site? I'd gladly chip write a post a week or so - short tutorials and tips, development updates, etc.
21:28:18 <str4d> psi, that is a chicken-and-egg question. Both are important.
21:28:21 <dg> psi: Hell, I think the website is a big deal and it affects the software.
21:28:24 <dg> thursday: me too.
21:28:59 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> thursday: already kinda done in the revamp branch.. not feature complete.. but the basic stuff is there
21:29:42 <dg> str4d: +1
21:29:42 <nom> ....big picture software is more important, but the website needs improvement, and imo theres enough people with enough time and skills to work on the website, without it impacting how much 'code' gets done
21:29:42 * psi refreshes the revamp branch
21:29:42 <str4d> thursday, at present the main site is just a collection of HTML files. The revamp reorganizes things so that there is a specific blog.
21:29:42 <str4d> (Still a collection of HTML files, but blog generation etc. is dynamic so it makes maintaining a blog much simpler)
21:29:42 <nom> software = community = website, as its the first introduction most people get
21:29:49 <dg> current site makes me think nerdy
21:30:11 <dg> and dead, old
21:30:18 <dg> I didn't know if i2p was even in active dev when I first saw it
21:30:37 <str4d> thursday, (and those who haven't seen it): http://vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p/en/site/ is the revamp
21:31:01 <LaughingBuddah> psi: they could be worked on my different people. no need to decide for only one of the two
21:31:16 <dg> I can do blog posts/write ups for pages.
21:32:51 <KillYourTV> yes, I read your message str4d. and I call http://killyourtv.i2p/tmp/nffnatr.png "assange run through a filter"
21:33:17 <KillYourTV> (hell, back in early september it was still 'assange.png' :P)
21:34:13 <thursday> That looks fantastic. As someone who wants to help out with the site, is there a list of the major things that need to be done before this revamp can go live?
21:34:24 <str4d> KillYourTV, that is not current. If you run fux you'll see that replaced with a variant of hat guy.
21:34:47 <KillYourTV> I *just* downloaded that from you.
21:35:18 <str4d> KillYourTV, oh, then the image file might still be sitting there. But snark does not use it.
21:35:45 * str4d has often forgotten to remove random files, sometimes leaving .zip files in the update packages >_<
21:36:11 <KillYourTV> alright...NOW I can agree. It's not in the css. carry on :) (and sorry)
21:36:32 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> hmm.. that News thingy at the end of the page is a bit to hidden imho
21:36:52 <dg> thursday: +1, I'd like this too. We can wrap up on this if we have that and can decide on a few people to work on that.
21:36:55 <str4d> thursday, feedback is key. I'm still working out the structure and layout at present, so comments on that are welcome (url layout as well as navigation)
21:36:59 <dg> <+dg> thursday: +1, I'd like this too. We can wrap up on this if we have that and can decide on a few people to work on that.
21:38:11 <str4d> thursday, if you want to improve content, there are many pages that could do with reworking to make it easier for end users to find/understand what they need to.
21:38:33 * str4d can go through some of that later if desired.
21:38:51 <dg> That'd be nice
21:39:57 <LaughingBuddah> Timed out...What's the topic?
21:40:40 <dg> Not much was said about mirroring, I think that includes the re-design though
21:40:40 <dg> imo, any changes to the current design are just temporary and not worth thinking too much about
21:42:10 <LaughingBuddah> Link to logs please
21:42:10 <LaughingBuddah> I'd like to read the part about mirroring/offer my services
21:42:10 <str4d> welterde, you were making changes to the mirroring scripts IIRC?
21:42:10 <dg> weltende: SSL on the sites, legit certs, SSL on the mirrors (at least some) - how possible is this?
21:42:10 <dg> unprofessional to have expired/none/CACert (which throws up errors = scary)
21:42:10 <dg> you could argue CA system is weak but better than nothing
21:42:10 <dg> LaughingBuddah: website etc
21:42:10 <dg> LaughingBuddah: very little was said wrt mirroring
21:42:10 <LaughingBuddah> I'd like to set up a mirror
21:42:19 <str4d> dg, yeah, there are long-standing issues in trac related to that.
21:42:19 <dg> LaughingBuddah: I figure it was because the current site is dire and we might as well wait for the new design before we do anything big.
21:42:19 <dg> The new site can highlight important things as well as a surge of new information.
21:42:22 <LaughingBuddah> Fair enough
21:42:22 <dg> Anything for the old site, again, IMO is just trying to keep something dead afloat.
21:42:34 <dg> Thank you though! :-)
21:42:34 <LaughingBuddah> Offer still stands
21:42:43 <dg> Oh, by the way, syndie.i2p2.i2p doesn't exist, but syndie.i2p2.de does
21:42:46 <dg> inconsistency..
21:42:55 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> str4d: uh..
21:43:07 <dg> (Regarding Syndie, it'd be cool if someone could try poke it back alive, but we probably do not have the men)
21:43:16 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> str4d: you mean for the revamp thing or what do you mean?
21:43:20 <nom> yah, wrt syndie that really should be removed from the frontpage... unless someone has taking it back up without me noticing, its been dead for years
21:43:31 <dg> Syndie is a really cool idea.
21:43:49 <str4d> welterde, IIRC you said you were reworking the mirroring scripts, and that they would be shifted out of i2p.www eventually
21:43:55 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> str4d: I was gonna integrate that into the main site, so the mirror sites don't depend on my site anymore
21:44:14 <str4d> dg, one thing I hope to fix on the new site is that urls we know exist in i2p and in clearnet get auto-changed based on the user's location (rather than an i2p user having links to trac.i2p2.de for example).
21:44:32 <str4d> welterde, ah, okay.
21:45:03 <dg> str4d: oh, yes. I was thinking about that a while ago. That'd be a small but very good change for UX.
21:45:03 <dg> good call
21:45:03 <LaughingBuddah> We've got all these projects that need manpower. Maybe we start assigning people to make sure they move forward?
21:45:42 <str4d> dg, small from UX standpoint. %^&*ing annoying from backend standpoint >_<
21:45:53 * str4d has tried and so far failed
21:46:03 <dg> ^ this
21:47:13 <hottuna> are the projects organized / listed anywhere?
21:47:32 <psi> hottuna: iirc projects.i2p is one place
21:47:35 <psi> not sure
21:47:39 <dg> Perhaps we should create tickets in trac and assign them?
21:47:42 <dg> This would mean a clear, documented timeline of progress on work and to follow up who is working on it..
21:47:45 <dg> str4d: sounds quite easy? :s. just s/$domain/$currentdomain/..
21:47:45 <dg> str4d: Also, could do in JavaScript although not ideal.
21:47:45 <dg> hottuna: we're discussing them / and there's a topic on zzz.i2p to an extent about it but we're kind of trying to fix that
21:47:48 <dg> I propose we have trac tickets for each of the issues we've raised here, but if we can't use trac (we should though, imo since it's official)
21:47:55 <dg> we can use projects.i2p
21:48:10 <dg> trac also allows parent tickets and such, so we could have a complete way of planning this
21:48:13 <LaughingBuddah> What's the status on trac ---> redmine?
21:48:21 <psi> LaughingBuddah: probably not needed atm
21:48:32 <dg> LaughingBuddah: awaiting weltende.. but not needed right now
21:48:35 <LaughingBuddah> I see
21:48:41 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> haven't had time yet to give it a try yet
21:48:41 <dg> the issues with trac are more so on welt's end, not trac
21:48:44 <dg> software.
21:49:00 <dg> psi: Can you get to creating tickets for some of the issues we've raised today?
21:50:40 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: actually it's just the monotone plugin as I said before.. other downtimes weren't *that* often to be really annoying imho..
21:50:46 <nom> also re trac / redmine, if anyone has any experience with fossil, i would love to hear about it, im mulling over the possibility of trying to use it to make a system for actually distributed repos/bug tracking
21:50:48 <psi> dg: which and where?
21:50:57 <dg> psi: Trac, website reorganization, managing the necessary fux changes, dealing with the mirroring stuff, etc. Just general parent ones which we can assign to people so they do not forget and it's clear who we can grill if something breaks/doesn't work.
21:50:57 <darrob> hasn't this "assigning jobs to people will ensure that they'll get done real quick" meme been discussed on zzz.i2p already?
21:51:04 <dg> darrob: maybe, but was it even done?
21:51:11 <dg> (or work?)
21:51:30 <dg> We've clearly got some people who can get some tasks done
21:51:33 <psi> dg: i dont get things done "fast"
21:51:33 <dg> trac is a way of documenting proress
21:51:33 <psi> dg: for me they are eventual
21:51:33 <dg> psi: neither do i, but i do get them done
21:52:47 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> nom: people used to run a fossil thingy.. but afair you got into trouble if two people edited the wiki at once(in two different instances that is..)
21:53:44 <nom> speaking of eventual, psi: i/others could get a lot out of you writing up your thoughts on netdb structure / your baromatrix experiences so far.. like a running blog or something
21:53:59 <dg> nom: i certainly would
21:54:14 <dg> psi: if not you, I can/someone else. I'd just like something to come out of this meeting so we can follow up on it next time. :)
21:54:14 <nom> weltende: hmm interesting... so there would have to be some sort of system for consistency
21:54:55 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> nom: or simply support for merging as it does for files
21:56:08 <psi> nom: current "status" of baromatrix is "being worked on"
21:56:08 <psi> nom: i have more than just i2p right now going on
21:56:15 <nom> psi: right, i understand, don't mean to pressure you or your time, just saying its always good to share your thoughts
21:56:46 <psi> i'll share thoughts when they happen nom
21:56:49 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> baromatrix?
21:56:57 <nom> weltende: indeed, guess i'l have to experiment with it a bit
21:57:00 <dg> statistics project
21:57:10 <psi> baromatrix is a distributed version of stats.i2p
21:57:15 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> ah
21:57:15 <psi> to "double check" the numbers
21:57:30 <psi> it's something that i've been meaning to do for a while
21:57:59 <psi> also to get a general demographic of the userbase too without being invasive
21:58:58 <nom> also uh... wheres the code? the git.repo seems to be .... nothing?
22:03:28 <dg> I guess we should wrap up then
22:03:35 <dg> Thanks for being involved, everyone. hopefully this can become a regular thing.
22:03:46 <dg> Anyone got any more to say/issues to raise?
22:04:07 <LaughingBuddah> Maybe we should schedule the next one?
22:04:26 <dg> Next Tuesday at 9PM UTC?
22:04:29 <dg> 8PM seemed a little rough for some people.
22:04:45 <hottuna> bampf?
22:04:56 * dg bampfs the meeting closed ;-)
22:05:30 <hottuna> thanks dg, this seems like a good thing
22:06:00 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: for me 7PM would be better..
22:06:10 <dg> hottuna: Thank you, I've had a lot of support, it was a little rough at the start of this and I felt anxious about how it'd go, but it went well. Perhaps we could see more of you/others next time too!
22:06:17 <dg> weltende: 7PM UTC is ok for me, I think.
22:06:28 <dg> weltende: 8PM caused issues for str4d
22:06:43 <dg> Next Tuesday @ 7:30PM?
22:09:40 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> sounds good
22:10:28 <LaughingBuddah> +1
22:10:39 <dg> Great.
22:14:59 <LaughingBuddah> Cya all
22:15:02 <LaughingBuddah> dg: good meeting


text:
MBTA approves contruction of new Mattapan station on the Fairmount Line
The MBTA Fiscal and Management Control Board voted today to hire a construction company to build a $17-million station for the Fairmount Line between Blue Hill Avenue and Cummins Highway, about a quarter mile outside Mattapan Square.
The station will give riders an alternative to the Mattapan High-Speed Line and the Red Line for getting downtown - the T promises 20-minute service on the Fairmount Line at subway prices, if not subway frequency, once the station is complete in 2019.
The bid, by McCourt Construction Co., came in some $9 million less than the amount the T had originally budgeted for the new station.
Do you like how UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!
While this is great news for Mattapan
I really hope it doesn't stand as an excuse for the T to rid itself of the trolley, which has been running like a top recently.
Spinning around in circles
Spinning around in circles and falling over?
Sounds like the MBTA all right.
Was does Roslindale & West Rox.
Continue to get F*$*ed.
"The T promises 20-minute service on the Fairmount Line at subway prices.
West Roxburites
Consistently blocked and discouraged any attempts to expand rapid transit into WR. An extension or even just frequent service on the Needham Line like the current Fairmont at subway zone1A prices would still be fought.
WR never had to fight
WR never had to fight anything - they ran out of funding when redoing the El long before it ever came to that. Also, no one is fighting more service on the Needham Line - as far as I know, people were unhappy when weekend service ended, and welcomed it back when it was reinstated. Also, its not people fighting more frequent CR service - due to the constraints of the NEC it is impossible to run anymore Needham trains. Lastly, people would welcome with open arms to pay only $80 for a monthly instead of the current $201. But, like at Hyde Park, the MBTA will never lower its price for 1A. The subway/1A fair at Fairmont was a special program to attempt to drive up ridership on the line.
It was fought
The ship sailed in the 1960s. If there were community support at that time, it would have been done. No support, no funding, no Orange Line to West Roxbury.
I mean, it wasn't even an
I mean, it wasn't even an option at the time as there wasn't any funding for it (and already had active CR service) - there really wasn't anything to fight for. I am also not saying if there was an actual proposal for it that Westie wouldn't have fought against it (like towns north and the Red Line extension), but I don't see how you could say if they fought for it it would have happened. Just look at how hard Dudley and the South End fought, and what did they end up with? A glorified bus. Look at the GLX and how hard Somerville and Cambridge have fought for it. Look at the restoration of the E Line - although admittedly there were both groups for and against that - but they fought for it and it was even a legal requirement of the Big Dig remediation.
The ship hasn't sailed, either. Its a good extension that will probably happen in 10-15 years. A first one off extension to Rozzie Square is almost a no brainer at this point given the insane traffic down Washington St to Forest Hills.
It was proposed in the 1940s
Sorry if the facts don't dovetail with your narrative, but much like the Red Line to Lexington, the Orange Line extension to Dedham via West Roxbury was proposed in the late 1940s.
You mean the ?
You mean the BERy map and plans?
There was no official study, there was no real proposal, there was no community meetings - unlike the extension to Lexington via Arlignton (that was fought tooth and nail against). BERy didn't have the money to build it, nor did the MBTA back in the 80s when they rerouted to the Southwest Corridor. There were always plans to do it, but, like I said: no funding. Thus there was no chance for Westie to fight it ala Lexington. Love the revisionist history though.
edit: fix my link to the BERy map.
I'll even second back up your claim with pictures. I took these photos like seconds ago.
This map is from 1945 which shows planned extensions by the Metropolitan Transit Recess Comission and BERy. Reprints of this map is cam be purchased at Ward Maps in Cambridge (Link to asset on their website), which is where I got mine.
Here's the extension to Needham: (Full Photo)
Here's the extension to Arlington (sorry Waquiot, it is Arlington, not Lexington) (Full Photo)
And the stamp from the map from 1945 for proof (Full Photo)
Sorry folks, I love bringing this up each time we talk about "what could have been" because I just have to turn around to prove people wrong since it hangs in my office right behind me! :-D
Sure but the discussion is
Sure but the discussion is not whether it was on the big master plan, it's whether Westie fought against a firm proposal that was actually happening. There's still some of that stuff on the current MBTA master plan that's realistically never happening and nobody is talking about it, let alone fighting it.
It's probably for the best the process to put in hard plans never happened, though, because Westie probably WOULD have fought it and then we'd have documented history of NIMBY asswipes on record against doing it now.
I love this
Are they hanging in your office in some sort of official capacity, or did you order these somewhere? These would make amazing additions to my office, too. I've seen low-res versions in the BPL archives, but it looks like you've got poster-sized ones--can you point me to where I can find them?
They are reprints from Ward Maps. See the "link to asset" above. But here ya go
This was a gift actually from my roommate for Christmas a few years ago. My only regret is that it was ordered on canvas and its the 'un-restored' copy (so has that off color to the background). Which I see now they only offer it on "un-restored" on Art Paper now. (they used to offer a restored copy so it was clean and white)
I'd go into their store at 1735 Mass Ave in Cambridge (between Harvard and Porter), if you can, to see if Steven offers a restored copy (or will print one for you). Don't get the canvas if you can help it.. it takes away some of the detail (if you zoom in on my photos). Plus the store is cool anyways, lots of other maps (not just T related)... I have several others from his store on my walls.
Its a great map.. very detailed and kind of "what could have been" if they actual did it But eventually they ended up building almost all of what was displayed on this map. (minus some variations to what was actually built.. i.e. Alewife Extension and Ext to Lynn)
Thanks, Kris
As to the fall of the proposal, here is a quote from an article which appeared in the Boston Globe on December 22, 1974, page A-4
but the extension through West Roxbury and Needham has provoked more discussion, as these more suburban communities have shown a fear of mass transit's impact and a strong preference for commuter rail.
And that's when the plan was shelved in favor of the status quo, bgl.
Apparently I fubar'd the link
Apparently I fubar'd the link to the BERy map. I also have that hanging at my house (from Ward Maps) like you Cybah :) My argument isn't that the plan hasn't existed to extend the OL out there, but that:
"West Roxburites Consistently blocked and discouraged any attempts to expand rapid transit into WR."
from the original post I replied to, and the later:
"The ship sailed in the 1960s. If there were community support at that time, it would have been done. "
BERy didn't have the money to build it just like all of the other extensions that didn't get built until the MBTA years. Yes, NIMBYs existed and didn't want it, but its not the Red Line going north - and, yes, I have already said if they tried to build it I am sure they would have fought it tooth and nail. But, they ran out of funding for it before any of this could happen at the one time when it might have been done - when the El was transferred to the Southwest Corridor, so it was a moot point. (Lack of) Funding killed the extension, unlike say Lexington. It is also pretty odd to say that the ship has sailed on it, when it is pretty obvious that it will eventually happen.
look above you
Heck, I even screwed up the time period, but sure enough, in 1973 the people of West Roxbury did what they do best. This was early in my time, but I do remember reading in the Transcript in the early 1980s there was a plan to convert the rail line to a busway. Just think about the frequency and number of buses they could have diverted from Washington Street. If only.
But here's the best part
They're building new housing right next to the new station. That's right, you can be living it large. Adam even wrote about it.
It was good having you as a neighbor, but hey, if you want to ride the commuter rail and not pay too much, this seems to be the best option for you.
I mean, sure - but Rozzie and
I mean, sure - but Rozzie and Westie are still some of the only neighborhoods of the City of Boston that don't have some level of actual rapid transit. Extending the Orange Line wouldn't be a terrible thing (and was part of the original plan of the new alignment).
And BOOM
First shot is fired in the battle to get rid of the Mattapan-Ashmont line.
First Shot?
Charlie Faker has been trying to poop can the Mattapan Line for a while.
I'm a Member
I know the group, John. I'm a member. But this is the first alternate transportation approval for the area, unless I've missed something.
Agree 100%, but hope you're
Agree 100%, but hope you're wrong. The trolley is hands down the most reliable part of my commute from Milton to South Station.
It's ridiculous that they'd
It's ridiculous that they'd even think that. If I need to get from Roslindale to Dorchester, why would I go all the way up to DTX?
Two Years?
Really? Two years to build some platforms, stairwells, prefab shelters and some noise abatement? Really?
Are we now building artisanal stations using only locally sourced ingredients? What are they going to call the station, Blue Hipster Avenue?
While you are waiting for the GLX to be done, if at all, please look at the following story of the $833 per square foot building that no one, save for some office workers for the DCR, who could have leased space nearby, will use. This building seemingly has been under construction since 2012.
Someday ...
Someday, John, we'll disagree on something. Not today, though.
Oh where to start
First of all, the fact that the estimate came in as low as it did means that the T is generally bad at providing estimates. Not exactly sure why, but this number is at least in line with the costs of other Fairmount Line stations. (I wrote about this in relation to the Belmont fiasco a while back.)
Anyway, as to why this will take as long as it will. I believe the station is getting a center platform, and that the tracks are already pretty well spread apart for installing said platform. That's good, it probably saves on construction costs and the like. However, it also means that all of the work needs to take place in between two active railroad tracks. This is not building something in the middle of a field. Every supply and every piece of equipment is going to have to cross an active railroad line, and there are a lot of rules that come with that, because you don't want to foul the line more than necessary, nor do you want to have any conflict (because trains and heavy equipment both have a lot of mass, add in speed, and you might have, uh, issues). In addition, the tracks will need to be spread out somewhat to accommodate the platform, so each will have to be cut, realigned and rebuilt, and that process ain't particularly free or speedy.
Nor is this a quick pre-fab drop-in-place-and-go type of ordeal. You can't go to Home Depot and buy a pre-fab high level railroad platform. The platform will be 800 feet long (we could get in to whether the T will ever actually run 800-foot-long, 9-car trains on Fairmount, or whether they should electrify and run EMUs, but that's a different story, and 800-foot, high-level is SOP) and will be at least 20 feet wide, so that's 16,000 square feet of platform. The whole of that will need footings poured (in between said active rail lines), and then the specially-poured concrete slabs will have to be carted in and installed, again, between the active tracks. A platform of this size, just for materials, costs several million dollars. You could probably save money and go with pressure-treated wood, but that's penny-wise and pound-foolish. (Smart, and likely not done, would be installing a heating system in the concrete to obviate the need for snow clearance.) Then comes ramps and/or elevators for ADA, stairs and other vertical circulation/egress, systems, signage and the like. Again, all installed adjacent to active rail lines.
So two years ain't that bad. It's a long time coming for the Fairmount Corridor. Now if only the T would take their heads out of their behinds (it would help if the city were to push them in this direction) and actually run enough service to make the line useful to everyone who lives adjacent to it.
So, yeah, let me know how this should be done faster and cheaper than everything else that's been done in the area (it doesn't help that there's a labor shortage and pay for contractors is high). $17m is probably a very fair price for this station (a heck of a lot cheaper than some GLX stations seem to be coming in for).
tl;dr: yes, really.
I Think It's A Great Design — No Stairs Or Elevators Needed !
The idea of positioning the station in the middle; between the two major streets it will be accessed from; and with a single platform in the center of the tracks is brilliantly efficient.
The long, covered ramps descend so gradually to the platform level that no switchbacks are needed to make them compliant. There are no stairs or elevators needed — it's just a single ramp, directly to the train!
Now, if they'd just electrify the line for EMU trains (or employ a fleet of DMU trains) to provide frequent, reliable service, then they'd have something really nice. As pleasing as the station renderings look, there are absolutely no trains in any of the plans!
Just Because I Loudly Complain When The Ⓣ Does Stupid Things ...
... it doesn't mean I can't appreciate when they do something smart.
Terrible Design
Actually this is a terrible design. I hope the final design abandoned this.
The idea of having a single track and single platform is a disaster.
This would mean having to merge a working and functional 2-track system with switches on either side of the station. This would make this station a bottleneck and add to the current signalling system's programming.
A center platform with two tracks makes far more sense.
As noted in other threads the tracks are wide there already. This is because up through the 1960s this was an active freight car storage yard where boxcars were picked up and dropped off for customers along that line, which existed will into the 1960s at the very least.
With a 2-track system they can sho-fly (move) one fo the tracks easily and run active trains on that single track with a slight schedule modification. This would then allow the other track to be used fo construction equipment and other work. Once the platform is created then the other track can be adjusted as necessary. This is how they have been building the station at New Balance in Brighton, and how the Assembly station was built on the Orange Line.
The one-track design was meant to convince abutters that there would be less noise but there would still be trains coming and going and there would be no noise abatement what so ever.
If the T also follows-through on rebuilding a few locomotives that will have a gear ratio change to allow for quicker starts and stops, then they can improve frequency on that line. They already have locomotives in storage that could be rebuilt for that need and also have coaches in storage that could be used for a start up service of that type.
If they go with a one-track design they would need to install switches at each end of the station, re-program the signal system, etc.
If a train breaks down there the whole line would be screwed. That happened not all that long ago at Salem. Unfortunately that will be a single track station until they can re-tunnel under Washington Street, and due to nearby historic buildings that is pretty unlikely in my lifetime.
Creating an unnecessary choke point is madness.
Let's hope it will stay 2-tracks.
Um... Excuse Me — It Is A Center Platform With Two Tracks
A center platform with two tracks makes far more sense.
For someone posting under the
For someone posting under the name "In The Know" you don't seem to know very much about this. One quick glance at any of the plans or renderings would immediately show an island platform with 2 tracks.
The T is not THAT stupid.
Maybe Not This Time, But Never Underestimate The Ⓣ
The T is not THAT stupid.
I see all that glass and can
I see all that glass and can't help but think of Four Corners/Talbot/Newmarket stations. The big panes of glass are a magnet for neighborhood kids and rocks. The T is constantly replacing those huge panes and they're not cheap!! Looks good and provides shelter from the elements, but so impractical.
Are we now building artisanal
Are we now building artisanal stations using only locally sourced ingredients? What are they going to call the station, Blue Hipster Avenue?
Boondoggles like this are basically just a way of throwing money at local construction firms and local labor unions (rather than maintaining the shit they already built), so... yes, essentially.
Great, sort of, if you're going to South Station
The biggest problem with the "Fairmount Corridor" and the rest of the commuter rail system is, you can't transfer to the rest of the system without a pass. Also, you can't use it with a Charlie Card. So you either have to buy a paper-ticket Zone 1A commuter pass, or pay twice to use the subways or buses to get where you actually want to go. Unless you want to go to South Station, or South Bay Mall, or the 5 other stops on that one route.
The second biggest problem is the lack of frequency. Trains that run every hour may be a suburbanite's dream, but in the areas of the Fairmount Line, commuters are used to buses and subways that usually run so frequently you don't need a timetable.
Then there are the dropped trains. It's the line with the most frequently missed schedules. Nobody is going to put up with waiting an hour for the next train...for long.
"paper-ticket Zone 1A commuter "
They made the switch to the Hybrid Zone Pass/Charlie Cards well over a year ago.
Zone 1A Pass was never as thin as the walk-up CharlieTicket
As someone who caught on to the Zone 1A Pass when they first started in '07, might I add that it was always a thicker-type card since, if nothing else, it had to make it a whole month before being replaced? The biggest issue, before converting it to a Smart Card, was getting frustrated when 3-4 subway fare gates in a row were in "Smart Cards Only" mode. Nothing more fun that having to walk perpendicular to everyone else tapping, trying to find a fare gate that would take the tickets.
For the past 4 years, every time I run over the Cummins Highway Bridge, I stop and ponder why the station hasn't been built yet. Soon, I'll be able to watch construction (or at least see evidence of construction. The Casey replacement looks like a ghost town some days.)
My hope is that the DOT folk realize that the Mattapan High Speed Line is needed, if only for those taking buses not numbered 30 who want to get in town.
Neighbors didn't want it
The hold up has been that the neighbors don't want it and many still don't. They have been doing everything possible to stop it.
They have significant concerns that starting and stopping trains will blow more diesel fumes than they do now (and that is true of a starting train), and will add a threat of illegally parked cars on adjacent streets (which may also happen).
So the delay has been due to local opposition by the immediate neighbors and abutters.
There have been endless meetings on this at the Mattapan Library and a few at the conference room at the Mattapah Station MBTA police station. The reasons and meetings are well documented.
Of course is you are not following this story every day.....................
How much bus service would
How much bus service would $17 million cover? How many years of late-night service?
The Fairmount Line is not useful. Even though it has great frequency and low fares by T commuter rail standards, it still has very low ridership, because of where it goes (quiet low-density residential and industrial areas, rather than community focal points) and what it connects to. They should put the money into improving the services that people actually ride.
Just gonna throw this out here
And I'll duck for tomatoes too.
The Silver Line Gateway.. a project being built near me is going to cost 82.5 Million for a 3/4th of a mile busway with 4 BRT stations, 5 if you include upgrades to the busway at Airport Station. This also includes a shared use path.
Out of that 82.5 million, 20 million is for the commuter rail station which will be moved from its current location to behind Market Basket. The new CR station, as well as all new SLG stations, will be ADA compliant, while the current CR station is not.
The SLG will service over 9,000 daily riders. Which makes it one of the most cost effective projects to service the most riders to date.
By comparison, the Fairmont Line services 1038 riders per day (for the entire line). Yeah that's 2013 numbers, even if you doubled it wouldn't even be close to the riders on new SLG busway. Sure you could argue that many SLG passengers are coming off of other nearby services, but the same could be said for the Fairmont Line also. Even if all the passengers on the Mattapan High Speed Line (roughly ~2400 daily boardings in 2010) come over and use the Fairmont Line, that's still 3600 daily boardings for that entire line. Still far less than SLG.
Note: Sorry I cannot come up with newer figures for ridership on both lines (Mattapan, Fairmont). I'm restricted to a MBTA BlueBook from 2014 that I found online, and even that line only has data for the Mattapan line from 2010, 2013 for Fairmont line). But I don't think both lines' ridership have changed very much, especially with the issues the Fairmont Line has today. Again, even if it doubled, it's still not a match.
Bottom Line, IMHO: Until they fix the Fairmont line's "issues", by either add more reliable service, convert to DMU/EMU, and/or find a way to increase ridership.. this station is a colossal waste of money. I can think of many more ways the MBTA can spend 18 Million than a CR station that really isn't really needed right now, especially when the ridership numbers are so low.
Don't send in diesel locomotives and coaches to do a subway train's (or streetcar's) job!
Yeah, DMUs are what this line needs and it shall not be a fully efficient operation until they are placed in service. But a guy named Chuck nixed that idea because new trains of any type, you know, cost money.
My dream would be to see the Fairmount Line converted to light rail, perhaps terminating (within fare control) at Andrew. The right-of-way was originally four tracks wide; so it would certainly be feasible to have two trolley tracks with simple platforms and a single railroad track (with turnouts as needed) for MBTA Commuter Rail and CSX moves.
Ah! And surely I'm not the only one who is dying to hear how the T shall provide service on 20-minute headways when it already struggles to meet the current timetable?
yeah, but...
yeah, but...
Light rail would be interesting. There are non-electric modern LRVs out there (NJT River Line), and I'm sure something could be set up with a high floor configuration to match the platforms. I can't remember where, but somewhere I've also seen LRVs with adjustable floors - all high-floor for urban stops, lower one whole section of floor for suburban stops.
That being said, Fed regulations prohibit "light" and "heavy" rail from operating on the same right-of-way. If the R.O.W. was four tracks wide, you could have an isolated heavy rail track - but it's not (at least, not the whole run of the line). Even if it was, you'd need to reconfigure everything, sliding it to one side: platform, LRV track, LRV track, platform, and heavy rail track (you can't just stick the heavy rail track in between the other two because you need to be able to switch LRVs between tracks.
Future growth of Boston's housing stock
="quiet low-density residential and industrial areas"
It'S A GOOD BACK UP PLAN
THE fairmount line is a good back up plan but I still choose to drive everyday as plan A.....especially in the winter !

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Trying to develop a new strategy, but I need to find reliable economic data on China. It's well known that the official figures there don't tell you everything (to put it nicely), so I was wondering if anyone knows of reliable sources on key macro data such as:
- Credit
- Raw materials production and demand (e.g. copper)
- Durable goods production and demand (e.g. cars)
- GDP allocation (e.g. spending on infrastructure; US exports as a % of GDP)
- Government spending
- Housing
- Personal income


text:
I'm planning to install a lock into a wooden door and I'll need to cut various holes for the lock body using a chisel. I'll need to use something like a hammer or a mallet to drive the chisel and I'm concerned that using a hammer with a steal head would damage the chisel handle. I've seen a lot of photos where a hammer is used and a chisel handle doesn't look very good there.
So which do I use - a hammer (steal head) or a mallet (rubber head) - for driving a chisel when doing woodwork?


text:
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text:
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text:
With a little over 30 days before I begin my Appalachian Trail thru hike, there are a few burning questions that everyone wants to know- 1. Am I Crazy? 2.Why am I doing this? 3.Will I poop in the woods?
The short version- Probably. Why not? Yes.
As a tried and true socially awkward introvert, I've been responding with the short version above and realizing that there is a chance that you may be looking for a little more info on question number 2. If that's correct, read on my friend.
Why Am I Thru Hiking?
- I am fundraising for Kay's Kisses. This project is my dream. It started as a little thought seed planted over a year ago. That seed has been rolling around up in my head all this time and the little sprouts are finally growing. I want to help victims of domestic violence. I want to encourage literacy. I want to do SOMETHING. This is my way of doing something, of hopefully making a difference.
- I love being outside. Can't get enough of it. I love mountains. I feel alive and exhilarated when I'm surrounded by natural beauty and breaking a sweat. I've loved hiking since taking Backpacking 101 in college (And yes, that is a real thing!) but being an adult has gotten in the way and I haven't been out nearly as much as I would have liked. Time to make up for that!
- I already told you, I'm a socially awkward introvert. I love my friends and family, and I truly enjoy my time with them and care about everyone very deeply… BUT- I charge my batteries when I am alone. I also have a lot of perfectionist tendencies and an endless To-Do list. 5 months by myself- no Facebook, no email, no obligations, and a To-Do list with only item= 1.WALK… sounds like true perfection for an INTJ!
- I overly plan for EVERYTHING (including this trip…); I run through 5 scenarios for every situation and can't possible make a single decision until I have read a minimum of 3 books on the topic and at least one opposing view. I recently heard the term "Analysis Paralysis" which is an incredibly accurate description. As much as being incapable of planning out every detail on the trail terrifies me, I am also looking forward to the spontaneity of the trail. It's actually completely impossible to plan for every situation and every weather scenario and that's pretty exciting! The trail will teach me.
- I love reading. Those days when the weather prevents me from hiking will be spent absorbing tons and tons of words without feeling guilty that I should be checking things off that darn To-Do list.
- I'll definitely be doing some true walk-a-bout style soul-searching. I haven't quite found my 'fit' in life, and there is a huge glowing knot in my belly that screams at me that there is something out there that I am truly meant to do. I think this journey is a big part of it. I know that sounds like silly hippy stuff, but its my truth.
- I thrive on challenge. Tell me it's hard, tell me what percentage of people fail and I say "Sounds awesome, count me in!". And if you are a numbers person, here you go: less than 25% of people who set out to thru-hike the AT each year will finish. This hike will be an outrageous challenge both mentally and physically- and that thrills me. There is an extremely good chance I don't make it to Katahdin. So what if I don't? I am pretty stubborn so I do have that going for me- but I'm also giving myself room to "fail". I've really enjoyed venturing into triathlon and endurance races, and I see this hike as a really big endurance race. I'm fueling my mind and body like I would a triathlon. It's gonna be hard, I'm gonna hear negative self talk at some point, I might even be DFL. No problem. So why do I say I am giving myself room to FAIL?? I have a tendency to bulldoze my way through things that bring me no enjoyment simply because of that nagging obligation to finish everything I start. If I get out there and find myself hating every moment; If I am in extreme pain; If I am violently ill- maybe I quit. Maybe I don't. Either way, I can't wait to start!
**Readers- Tell me what you think! Will I make it to Katahdin? Why or Why not? Tell me below- all opinions welcomed!


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text:
By Lance Farrell
Times Herald
WALES TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -- Matt Falk hasn't given up hope the death of his beloved husky, Logan, will be remembered.
He is working to make the dog's memory something that will help raise awareness of animal abusers and track those convicted of the crime.
A pair of bills known as "Logan's Law" were recently introduced in the Michigan House of Representatives. Sponsored by Reps. Paul Muxlow, R-Brown City, and Harvey Santana, D-Detroit, the bills would establish a registry of animal abusers and block convicted abusers from adopting animals. Similar legislation that would have formed an animal abuse registry didn't make it out of committee in the last session.
There are many laws to protect people, Falk told the Times Herald of Port Huron, "but there is nothing for animals." If enacted, the bills would prevent animal shelters from allowing abusers to adopt any animal with a backbone. Startup costs for the registry of about $10,000 would be shouldered by Animal Defense League Fund. The registry would be managed by the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office animal control division.
Santana said he hopes to set a hearing date within the next couple of months for the package.
The bills were drafted in response to Logan's story. Falk said someone came onto his property and sprayed acid on the blind dog's face. Logan died in July from complications from the attack.
Falk recalled Logan as a "talker and a lover. He just loved going out. We couldn't have asked for a better husky."
Falk said he's still shocked by what happened to his dog.
"I couldn't believe someone would do that," he said.
No charges have been filed in the case.
While legislation didn't make it out of committee in 2012, it was reintroduced April 10 following a tremendous Internet response.
Falk has launched two web pages, and has reached over three million people. Falk said Facebook has been the main instrument for drawing support, quickly garnering 18,000 likes. He has been contacted by people all around the globe, and even sold a "Logan's Law" T-shirt to a woman in Beijing, China.
"Even though Logan's attack was a terrible thing, we have a chance to turn this into something positive for animals all over the state, and even hopefully someday the whole country," Falk said.
"Unfortunately animal cruelty is all too prevalent in our state, and so we need to enact laws to prevent such heinous acts from occurring," Muxlow said in a statement. "Because offenders of animal cruelty laws commit their crimes on multiple animals and occasions, an offender registry is an important safeguard against these violent acts."
Published: Tue, Apr 30, 2013


text:
Is there any more appropriate book to discuss on Halloween than Jim Butcher's Side Jobs: Stories from the Dresden Files? Harry Dresden, the only wizard listed in Chicago's yellow pages, bumps into more things that go bump in the night than any other character I've read about. If it's weird and nasty in Chicago, Harry's dealt with it.
Butcher's latest book is a collection of stories about Dresden. Most of the stories were written for one anthology or another, and Butcher explains why he wrote each story, and where they fall in the course of the actual novels. For instance, "Something Borrowed" was written for an anthology called My Big Fat Supernatural Wedding, edited by P.N. Elrod. It "Takes place between Dead Beat and Proven Guilty," focusing on the Alphas, Harry's werewolf friends.
As a fan of Harry Dresden, I love finding new stories about him. But, it's also a pleasure to read the stories here because they feature so many of the friends we've grown to love in the course of the series. "A Restoration of Faith" may seem a little weak since it was Butcher's first attempt at a Harry Dresden story, but it also shows the first meeting of Harry and Murphy. Bob, Mouse, Michael and Molly all have major roles in one story or another. Thomas even gets to tell his own story in "Backup." And, for those of us who were shocked at the end of Changes, Murphy narrates an original story, "Aftermath," that takes place an hour or two after that novel ended.
I never thought the TV show ever did justice to Harry Dresden. But, no matter what happens after Changes, Jim Butcher brings my favorite wizard back to life in these stories from the Dresden Files, Side Jobs.
Jim Butcher's website is http://www.jim-butcher.com/
Side Jobs: Stories from the Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. Penguin Group (USA), ©2010. ISBN 9780451463654 (hardcover), 432p.


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Virginia Wesleyan University is not just talking about the importance of sustainability issues—the University is actively greening its campus and taking action to become a more environmentally-friendly place.
Just driving on campus, you get the feeling that the environmental is important to Virginia Wesleyan with its wide-open spaces, green fields, wild flowers, and bluebird and bat boxes for nesting. It's not uncommon to see a family of raccoons or Canadian Geese making themselves at home on campus.
With the creation of the President's Environmental Issues Council (PEIC) came the development of a more aggressive campus recycling program and the refinement of campus building and business policies and procedures. In conducting campus audits, the PEIC found that the University had already been environmentally conscious in many areas.
Building Procedures
The Buildings and Grounds Committee of the Board of Trustees has jurisdiction over the following architectural standards and approving variances from these and all other specifications.
- Site disturbance shall conform to the LEED specifications unless future development, safety or practical issues warrant a variance.
- Buildings shall be constructed to match or blend substantially with the architecture of the existing campus buildings. This should include elements such as:
- Arctic White precast stone work.
- Flat or black shingled pitch roofs, slate, slate look, architectural.
- Brick work to be "Wesleyan Brick."
- Mortar - Type "S" gray, Lehigh or equivalent.
- Windows and door frames, metal or wood, bronze finish.
- Windows should be energy efficient, low UV emitting.
- Structures to be two or three story maximum.
- Handicap access is to be included at a minimum of ADA compliance.
- Use of recycled/recyclable materials recommended.
- Caulking should be low/no VOC.
- Elements of interior construction and finishes should include:
- LEED specifications shall be followed as possible.
- Plumbing fixtures should be low flow rated.
- Walls shall be painted with non-VOC paints.
- Walls to be of brick, masonry, sheetrock or similar.
- Use of steel framing is preferred.
- Decks of concrete, precast or poured on site.
- Materials from suppliers within a 500 statute mile radius shall be given preference.
- Materials that are recycled/recyclable will be given preference.
- Caulks and mastics shall be low/no VOC rated.
- Handicap access shall be implemented at a minimum of ADA requirements.
- Communications shall be current for the individual room usage (high speed internet, cable TV, telephone, etc.)
- Closed handled emergency release bars for all doors.
- Light fixtures should be fluorescent or LED whenever possible.
- The most efficient and cost effective HVAC that meets all ASHRAE requirements should be the first considered.
Safety and Security
- The City of Virginia Beach Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design shall be consulted prior to exterior landscaping design approval.
- All buildings shall be fire sprinkled and alarmed.
- Walkway lighting shall be First Light conforming to the lighting at Godwin Hall.
- Parking lot lighting shall conform to the lighting used at the Batten Center lot.
- Parking shall be factored into the cost of the building at the concept costing stage. Parking will compare LEED requirements against known need.
Business Procedures
In day-to-day business, Virginia Wesleyan is environmentally-conscious by routinely practicing the procedures listed below.
- Bio-retention ponds are installed during construction to clean the water before it runs to Lake Taylor.
- Low or no VOC paints and sealants are standard on new construction, and used on renovation projects, where applicable.
- Low capacity plumbing fixtures are used to conserve water.
- A living green roof was installed on Smithdeal Hall in Village II.
- Clarke Hall will soon be recommissioned to meet LEED standards for existing buildings.
- Replace incandescent light bulbs with fluorescent bulbs during renovation.
- Energy Star appliances, where applicable, are standard on campus.
- An ice storage system, where ice is built at night, has been installed. This allows a chiller to be shut down during the day, reducing the electrical production facilities need due to reducing peak demand.
- Night set-back controls are used in buildings where we have central HVAC controls.
- A gravity feed roller system was installed in the dining center, replacing the powered dish mover.
- Native plants are used wherever possible.
- Minimal fertilizers are used, and those used are organic.
- In icy conditions, the University uses more sand, a natural control system, than chemicals to reduce slippery areas.
- We've re-instated an improved campus recycling program.
- The Business Office recycles toner cartridges from campus printers and copiers
- The Physical Plant recycles batteries.
- Memo pads are created from left-over print jobs and misprints in the campus print shop.
- Recycled paper pads are sold in the Scribner Bookstore.
- Recycled copy paper and envelopes are purchased for the campus print shop.
- An effort is made to purchase recycled products across the supply line.
- Planted pines removed in the construction of Village IV were recycled and used for mulch.
- Hybrid vehicles are being introduced into the University fleets.
- The Marlin Express and the Marlin Transit Authority provide transportation for students, reducing the need for multiple vehicles to travel to the same location.
- The Marlin Wheels program allows for environmentally-friendly travel on campus.
- The Physical Plant provides hazardous waste removal through authorized handlers.
- Campus scientists utilize minimal chemicals for experiments thus creating less waste.
- Trayless dining reduces food waste and saves energy.


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HAMPTON — Not to go overboard with hyperbole, but you could say it's been their sacred ground. Over the past four autumns, Justin "Boom Box" Lyles and Eric Enderson were part of 36 wins at Darling Stadium. And only two losses.
"Oh yeah," Lyle said. "We've had some good years here."
Which made Friday night particularly interesting. Despite winning four state championships together at Phoebus, they were on different sides in the VHSCA All-Star football game. Lyles, the Phantoms' All-Group AAA linebacker, was in his natural geographic region. But Enderson, Phoebus' quarterback and kicker, was on the West as a last-second fill-in.
Somebody had to go out with a loss Friday night, and it turned out to be Enderson. A 3-yard touchdown run by Hampton's Kavon Bellamy with 37 seconds left gave the East a 31-24 win.
The West led 21-0 midway through the second quarter, but the East forced a 24-24 tie on an 82-yard touchdown run by L.C. Bird's Yahkee Johnson with 9:29 left. Then, after a 26-yard punt return by Lafayette's Thomas Smith, the East took over at the West 32-yard line.
Back-to-back runs by Buckingham County quarterback Tarian Ayers moved the ball to the 3-yard line, and Bellamy scored the game-winner on first-and-goal.
The East won for the third consecutive year.
So how did Enderson wind up on the West roster? He was asked about playing last spring, but he knew his orientation at the University of Delaware — where he'll begin classes in August — fell on All-Star week. So that was it.
Sunday night at his hotel in Newark, Enderson received a text from Phantoms coach Stan Sexton. Was there any chance he could make it back in time to be a fill-in at kicker? Enderson was confused: He knew Woodside's Chris Moller, his good friend, was kicking for the East.
But it wasn't the East that needed a kicker. It was the West.
"I thought about it for second," Enderson said. "I didn't know anybody on the West, but I thought it might be nice to beat Boom Box and Coach Sexton and Roc (Jackson, a Phoebus lineman)."
Enderson certainly did his part to make that happen. In addition to four touchbacks and a punting average of 49.3, he made a 52-yard field goal with 6:49 remaining in the third quarter. After his holder congratulated him, Lyles was next with a hug and a pat to the head.
As it turns out, Enderson did see a familiar face on the West roster. Hampton running back/linebacker Dallas Cogdell was another emergency fill-in.
Enderson and Cogdell were two of six players who normally would have been on the East but were shipped over to the West out of necessity. Also switching sides was Heritage receiver/defensive back Frank Brooks.
In addition to the punt return, Smith scored the East's first touchdown on a 3-yard run. Bruton's De'Arius Olvis had two catches for 60 yards. Jamestown's Rodney Smith sealed the game with an interception in the end zone on the final play.
First quarter
West: Powell 7 run (Enderson kick), 6:02.
West: Swift 7 run (Enderson kick), :04.
Second quarter
West: Penn 35 pass from Motley (Enderson kick), 7:56.
East: Smith 3 run (kick blocked), 3:53.
East: Bellamy 1 run (run failed), 1:44.
Third quarter
West: Enderson FG 52, 6:49.
Fourth quarter
East: Semones 5 pass from Bell (run failed), 11:50.
East: Johnson 82 run (kick failed), 9:29.
East: Bellamy 3 run (Moller kick), :37.


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DRIGGS, Idaho — An Idaho high school will drop its longtime "Redskins" nickname, logo and mascot in a move its top administrator says was made to show respect for Native Americans.
The decision at Teton High School in Driggs is a way to encourage students and the community to see beyond skin color and stereotypes, said Monte Woolstenhulm, superintendent of District 401. Motivation also came from renewed efforts nationally to change nicknames and logos deemed offensive to many Native Americans.
MORE: 5 other schools that ditched redskins
"Students need to be taught to see people beyond the color of their skin," said Woolstenhulm, who was a student at the school. "They need to get to know who people are without using nicknames or assumptions based on outward appearances.
Woolstenhulm expects the decision will draw some criticism, but dropping the name won initial approval from the school board Monday night.
Last month, 10 members of Congress sent letters to the owner of the Washington Redskins NFL and the league commissioner urging the team to change the name. The letter to team owner Daniel Snyder says that "Native Americans throughout the country consider the 'R-word' a racial, derogatory slur akin to the 'N-word' among African Americans.
MORE: New generation of American Indians challenges nickname
Snyder has vowed he will never change the nickname. On Wednesday, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell responded to the congressional pressure, calling the Redskins nickname a "unifying force that stands for strength, courage, pride and respect."
The name is also the subject of a legal challenge from a group seeking to have the team lose its trademark protection.
At the college level, the NCAA warned more than a dozen schools in 2005 to change American Indian nicknames or logos or face sanctions. Some have followed the warning, including North Dakota, once known as the "Fighting Sioux," while others have gotten permission from tribes to keep their names.
Meanwhile, Woolstenhulm says maintenance crews will begin removing Redskins logos and signs from around the school this summer. Uniforms for all athletic teams and cheer squads will be phased out and the school newspaper, "The War Cry," will be renamed.
The process for picking a new nickname and mascot will begin next fall, he said.
Brody Birch, school athletic director and football coach, said the decision is unfortunate for students and alumni who identified with the nickname. Though he also understands how the name can do more harm than good.
"You have people who are indifferent and then you have people (asking) 'What are we doing" Why are we caving in?" Birch said. "It's not going to change what we are at Teton High School or what our values are."


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Meet Oksana Skolnaja
Meet Oksana Skolnaja BD Outdoors newest fishing Chick. This girl can hang with the best of them says Captain Andy Mezirow in Seward, Alaska. BD's Chicks fishing has become one of the most popular areas on the net to check out what those fishing women are up too.


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RRFM Participants Accuse Police Chief Blue of Cowardice
From Really Free Carrboro
This Saturday, at 2 pm, hundreds of people will converge at Carrboro's Town Commons to celebrate the ten-year anniversary of the Carrboro Really Really Free Market. This event has been promoted for months and will surely draw some of Orange County's most progressive and community-minded residents.
Perhaps not coincidentally, Chapel Hill Police Chief Chris Blue has chosen this Saturday, at 2 pm, to hold a "Question and Answer Session" on the other side of town about why he believes it is necessary for the Chapel Hill Police Department to own and utilize military-style heavy weaponry.
This is no abstract question for Chief Blue. In November 2011, he ordered a military-style raid in the middle of downtown Franklin Street, sending men with loaded assault rifles to threaten and arrest peaceful demonstrators and passersby in response to the occupation of the long-disused Yates Building. This police raid generated tremendous controversy, provoking widespread outcry and several protest marches: for once, the systemic violence of the police, which is usually only obvious to the disenfranchised, was front and center in public discourse.
Even in this situation, Chief Blue never acknowledged any error. We can only conclude that military-style raids in which armored officers point assault rifles at passersby are part of his vision of appropriate policing in Chapel Hill. Ferguson is not so far away after all: if this is how he responds to protests on Franklin Street, how much more brutally will these weapons be used against poor people and people of color, those on the receiving end of most of the violence of the police?


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Consider the possibilities
"Apparently we're an agency; we definitely used to be..."
Our roots are based firmly in design, award winning; effective design that has significantly improved our clients' business performance and has made people stop, look and think.
We absorbed the visual and cultural ephemera that surrounded us and used this natural curiosity to help others connect with those elusive people called customers. Or as we now know them in the digital world 'users'.
We held their hands as they set us briefs and added their point of view. We listened, learned and lead them forward. It worked well. It was harmonious.
Then the ground shifted!