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So, I[26m] haven't been very lucky with tinder, until last week. I super liked this girl Kara[21f] (fictional name), and to my surprise, we matched. She was responding to my messages although herself admitted she was a bad texter and would often left me on read, which is not a problem for me.
So, I finally had the balls to ask if she wanted to meet up. She agreed, yay! Now, I wasn't going to slack on this opportunity, it was the first date I had in 5 years, I needed to work hard on it. First of all, I made a list of possible topics to talk about based on what I knew of her. She seemed to be a very active feminist. So, I read some Beauvoir to not be caught off guard if she asked my opinion on anything related. She also happened to be pursuing an art degree. I found out that there was the exhibit of this 70s post modern artist and got two tickets. Again, I kind of read a bit about him, so I could give my input if asked. And finally, she seemed to be very into holistic things (like tarot etc), so I found this coffee place that kind of fit into the theme that we could meet up.
The perfect date was set. We would meet for coffee, talk a bit and then head to the exhibit. If I got lucky, maybe a kiss at the end?
I met her at the door and we went inside. The place was very nicely decorated, so we spend some time looking at all the little sculptures and art pieces on the walls. Then, enters Dave (fictional name)
-Some of them are for sale if you interested. I'm also doing tarot reading today.
-We should totally get a reading, Kara said.
-Sure, seems interesting. (BIG MISTAKE)
We went to a table near by and the guy pulled the deck (if that is what is called). The guys procedes to do whatever and talking about her life choices and so on. He got personal, I could see the effect it had on her. She keep looking deeply at his eyes as he laid out what she could be struggling with emotionally. I felt kind of left out, to be honest. Time went by and they're still talking, about life, relationships etc. Now I'm really bothered by all of this. So I try break it off by saying.
-So, do you want to go to the exhibit? I think it will close in a hour or so.
She smiled, looked at Dave and said:
-Dude, you would totally love this exhibit. You should totally go with us.
And there you have it. She invited tall, handsome Dave to the exhibit. And he agreed. They kept talking the whole way there. At the door I pretended to take a phone call, and left saying that there was an emergency. She said that it was a bummer, but didn't seem very sad about it.
I went home and cried in the shower. I never felt so useless in my entire life. This dude just snatched my date away, and all I could do was watch it. I didn't had very high expectations for how the date would end, but holy shit.
Is there any way that I can avoid this kind of situation?
Locked cuz while holy smokes that chick is horrible and man she should try to find her soul, comments have now divulged into women hating, slut shaming and downright slurs for women left and right.
You weren't a disaster at all. She was mean and should have known it was not ok to invite someone on a date NOT EVEN ORGANISED BY HER. Unacceptable. You were lovely and thoughtful. Keep trying
Right? I just wish I hadn't give them the tickets though, I could've gotten a refund or something.
IMO this is a lesson not to invest too much in people before you've met them in person/gotten to know them. You knocked the date out of the park and put so much thought into it, but save that energy for someone who's actually special once you've gotten to know them.
Again, just my opinion, and I know some people will say to keep trying. But to me, there's only so much of myself I can give to other people until I know that it's worth investing in, otherwise there's not enough you left for yourself (if that makes sense). For this woman, for example, I would have just gotten some drinks or coffee at an artsy bar or something, save the exciting stuff for once she's impressed you. Once you get the right person you're gonna knock it out of the park again, I can tell!
This is exactly why I roll my eyes when people balk at coffee as a first date because it's boring. Why invest in someone you haven't even seen in real life? If you hit it off, do something more fun after coffee, but it's a good start because it's low stakes for both parties.
People balk at coffee dates? WTF! I'm out of the dating world these days (got married), but the coffee date was always one of the best first dates. It was also a good second, third, and one hundredth date. Affordable, social, attention focused, and you can quickly figure out if there's a spark or not. Are people expecting grand romance and to be swept off their feet the first time they meet these days?
Are people expecting grand romance and to be swept off their feet the first time they meet these days?
In my experience, if I can't sweep them off their feet in the initial interaction I should hardly even hope to setup a subsequent meet-up for a date
Can I ask some follow-up questions? You don't need to reply if you don't want to :)
Is this an age related thing? As in the younger have higher expectations?
Who is losing interest first, you or them?
To what extents are you trying to sweep them off their feet?
Is this working for you?
These are great questions but I haven't been tracking data enough to give you an accurate answer. That, and I don't want to be too specific. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Purely anecdotally, I'd say late-20's women and up are more willing to conversate. Younger than that and, imo, have a bigger supply of options available. This, again imo, is exacerbated by corornavirus and more people shifting toward, for a lack of a better term, digital dating.
I'd sum up digital dating as 'weird.'
Could digital dating be reinforcing an inner childhood-derived yearning for the fairytale love story? Maybe not even being "swept off their feet," but maybe an imposed high standards?
I think it's not just that, but the digital dating for me personally leads to a lack of commitment because you've never met the person and are not likely to meet the person in the immediate future, so in order to make it work requires time dedicated to solely that person (get online have a zoom date for however long) whereas if it's an irl date, then if there are sparks great! If not then you can run some errands or do things outside of the house. It's hard for me to get invested in someone who I'm not going to see except behind a computer screen for the immediate future so it'd have to be a heck of a match for it to work out. My brother on the other hand is a whole different story and he's thriving and has met a SO that is in it for the long run so it affects people differently I think
This has always been my dating advice, especially meeting someone from a dating app for the first time. Keep it SUPER casual! I always met for a quick drink because that way if we don't hit it off at least I can get a buzz going and go about my night after the meeting is over. Coffee works, too. The point is to keep it casual and quick.
It shouldn't even be called a first date. It's really a meeting where you meet the person face to face and get to decide if you'd like to really date them or not.
sometimes I call it the "zero date" since you're meeting to see if you want to go on a first date
This story is exactly why. You need to build respect for each other, and frankly if you haven't be physically intimate then you're just buds in my eyes.
Coffee date is the least amount of investment for both parties, if you buy a coffee, less than 10 bucks. If you need to leave, you can do so comfortably knowing you're in a public place.
It works for everyone involved.
BINGO!!!! I used to plan these elaborate dates and such and then I realized what's the point unless they're really into me after we've been going out for a while. Most of the time nowadays my first dates are not only free/inexpensive, but also something I like to do like go to a particular museum in case they don't show up. I'm not much of a fan of coffee shop first dates because (a) feels like wasted money because I wouldn't go to a coffee shop myself generally and b) first dates feel really stiff and claustrophobic there, if that makes sense).
Coffee is the only way to go. If your personalities cant mesh just chatting whats the point. Some of the best times i ever had were just coffee with someone i completely meshed with.
Your not going to get on with every person you meet. Some people wont want to fuck you or know you. Accept it. Do your best, and don't waste your time trying to push something that isnt meant to be.
Learn this dude. Is just a gir,l not your abuelita coming from heaven. Next time just go to regular place and stop seeking validation from women.
I assure you the award is for this word lmfaooo
A first date needs to be coffee or a beer max. Talk in person. If both people want to escalate, they can, but never escalate your effort until you do the coffee/beer date, because I'm not trying to spend a cent more than I have to to establish there's a draw to each other. If there is, the lack of luster a coffee date might have doesnt matter.
Also, people that want to spend time with you will make it known. If they don't, then great, bye.
He wasn't seeking validation!! He just wanted an environment the stupid woman would enjoy.
I wish more men were like you were. She was so wrong in doing what she did but...there's a movie title: He's just not that into you. Well that was the case here. You honestly dodged a bullet.
I realize you're not gonna agree, but i also think he was looking for needless validation. Him not taking the tickets back is kind of like evidence for this. 5 years is a lot of time, and i think the desperation got to him. What's my source and authority i hear you asking? MYSELF. I mean i put myself in OP's shoes and realized I'd do the exact same thing. And I'm a big time people pleaser desperate idiot so...
OP should've done everything he did, but perhaps on the third date. Maybe even second if the girl was a genuine person and genuinely interested in him.
This 1000% I'm a reformed people-pleaser and the hardest part of admitting it was realizing that even though I was doing all these great things (mostly) because I wanted to, there was a tiny part of me that wanted that recognition/ validation for it. That's not fair. You're not obligated to do any of those things like the other person isn't obligated to be appreciative. Does it suck? Hell yeah, but realizing that helped me calm it down a little.
I'm a reformed people-pleaser
If you don't mind me asking, how are some ways you became reformed? I'm a people-pleaser too and while I've certainly made strides and I'm better than I used to be, I'm not sure I'd call myself reformed. It's still a problem sometimes.
It wasn't easy and I still have to keep it in check. The biggest thing was being honest with myself about WHY I was trying to please people. I realized it wasn't solely because it made me feel good.
I realized that it was tied to me being fearful that the person I was interested in/ cared about would eventually leave, so I had to make sure they knew I was someone who was good and kind that didn't deserve abandonment. I have an anxious pre-occupied attachment style and I obsess over being neglected/ abandoned emotionally.
Realizing that led me to examine every relationship I had; familial, platonic, and romantic. After I identified the root of the behavior it just became a process of forgiving the wounded child that needed love/ support and learned to cope in this unhealthy way.
I'm rooting for you! It's a hard pattern to break but I feel so much more free and know now that I deserve love without having to try and prove my worth first. If you ever want to chat I'm here. 😊
Psych major my dude? How introspective. You dove deep into that attachment theory and really did your best to face what you could make of it. Good for you.
100% this. If someone I didn't know put this much effort in on a first date I would probably see it as a bit of a red flag? It would just seem like they're trying too hard to win my attention, I'd rather the first date just be sitting in a cafe and chatting and getting to know the person.
Honestly I'd also be slightly worried if someone started reading up on my hobbies and interests before the date because I know for a fact I wouldn't do the same thing.
Totally. Also OP, if you don't like art and feminist literature and you think tarot is bullshit... Why pretend? You come off as fake. Why did you even like her? I suppose she was cute? Not enough dude. You seemed a bit desperate with the plan, and I don't think you made it clear enough it was a date, and if it WAS clear why did you not say "yea we can't really do astrology right now we're on a date" and possibly "who the F are you Dave?" and "no Dave you cannot come on our DATE..."
I (26f) sometimes feel that when men try too hard it can be a bit of a turn off (and believe me when I say that I love when a man puts effort in) but to be honest, you made the whole date about her. She also wants to date you, ya know? Show her things you like too.
For example, my first date with my now fiancé (26m) was absolutely amazing.
I am a nerdy English major and he's a welder, so we couldn't be more different. Now I've had my fair share of guys taking me to libraries and such, but he took me to an arcade.
We had an absolute blast and I was completely obsessed with him from our first date. I love that he thought of something new that we could both try out. I had never been to an arcade but am naturally competitive and generally love video games. We still go back to that arcade to remember our first date and it's so special to me ♥
I don't know. Just a thought. It's sweet that you were thoughtful but trying new things can be very romantic too.
" She also wants to date you, ya know?"
Considering she stopped talkin to him as soon as she saw some other random guy, I'm pretty sure she didn't.
The OP was just out of luck. I wouldn't blame him, the problem absolutely wasn't him. The girl was weird.
Oh I know! Totally agree. She's a jerk. I'm just saying for future dates, he could maybe think of taking someone to experience something new.
I see. I also agree planning something super special for a first date is going overboard.
In my case, just going to a cafe or something basic would be enough. I think the geal of the first date is knowing the person better.
Still, I think the girls reaction doesn't have anything to do with the place he selected, since he didn't even had the chance to even get there. Not his fault in my opinion. As someone said here, I think he dodge a bullet there, because a regular well adjusted human being would act like that in a date.
But he said he spent ages planning conversation topics about her, thinking he doesn't deserve to talk about himself
Omfg 😂😂😂
This 100%. OP dove head first into a swimming pool before checking if it had water. Gotta wade in.
I agree with this. I personally wouldn't make lists of things to talk about. You're going on a date-it's just as important they make an effort. Do something you enjoy as well or it will never work. Maybe it's just an age thing but it should be light and fun-not a heavily researched thing.
You gave them the tickets you paid for? I mean I know I'm insane but I would have rather ripped them apart in her face and told her to have a nice evening "ya dumb bitch" You're too nice OP.
[deleted] 1 month ago ago
Why did you give them the tickets?
That's a very good question, I asked myself the exact same thing, a very dumb move, lol. Compulsive people pleaser I guess? I just wanted to leave without making a scene.
Dude, i would give you a high five but i am in too many thousand of kilometers for that, youre a great person, i have a short fuse and would turned cold in your place, but you acted more mature, you did the good call avoiding confrontation, no shame on that, and its natural that it hurted you I would give the tip of more informal meetings, short 1 or 2 hours meetings with something to drink, not full on dates because, if you go on a date and wach a movie for example, there is not much you can talk besides the movie If you meet and drink a cofe or a beer or whatever, you wont talk about te beer or cofe, you are restricting the conversation to things about you and her, what she likes and dislikes, pasions and such, i would plan a date like yours for when i know i like her, what she likes, and i already know her on a personal level
.... Maybe i am not the best one to give tips here jajaja but stay safe, do things at your pace and realize you were perfect in your actions
ED: my higest rated coment!.... With 5 upvotes... That says a lot about me jajajaajaj
I feel you man. If something happens like that I would do same thing. You never expect something like thisb
Also I hope this tall handsome stranger ditches her after seeing how poorly she treated you.
The fact he willingly took over the date tells you everything you need to know about him, he's just as trashy as the woman.
He'll wait to ditch her until after he fucks her.
I can almost guarantee you that after sleeping with her, he will most likely abandoned her. For real, some ppl have no honor to steal another man's prize like that. I guess the saying it true, "no honor among thieves".
You did a kind thing even though you could have quite rightly snatched those tickets and left. I hope good things come to you for being selfless and being a better person. Best of luck xx
Why wasn't he the one holding the tickets in the first place? He bought them.
You did such a nice job planning this date- and she did not deserve it
The first date is supposed to be a very casual thing to just get a sense of not only whether the person is interested in you, but also whether you are interested in continuing to pursue and invest more in this person. She proved herself to not have been worth this investment. Next time, be more discerning about who you put your time and effort into, because you also deserve someone that will truly appreciate it, if that makes sense.
I don't think this was his fault. Going to an exhibition seems like a perfectly fine thing to do. The only mistake here and what he can learn is that should the first half go awry, don't hesitate to peace out and take his tickets for the second half. Lol if the girl had asked about the tickets he coulda said "don't worry. I'll save them for the second date!" And jollied off knowing everyone there knows there isn't a second date.
OP, sorry the girl you took out was a jerk. I hope she was just the one you stubbed your toe on but you keep moving forward and have more fun in the future.
I dont online date so will have to take your word for it.
Adding to this, you bailed, politely, when you should have. You were the opposite of a disaster I think you were an absolute gent from the sounds of things. You didnt swing and miss, you dodged a bullet because you were able to read the room.
Noticing subtlety seems to be one of the biggest things guys have problems with. Sounds like you're fully equipped to move on to a hopefully successful date in the near future. Stay safe and have fun!
Look as a girl. You went above and beyond to try and be interested in what she's like and talk about. She was just the dumb bitch who couldn't see all that and honestly from what I hear she didn't seem very interested from the get go.
You did NOTHING wrong. It was rude of her and you seem like a lovely guy. She was not worth. Trust me.
Exactly right!
OP, this sounds cliche, but that wasn't a you problem, it was a her problem. Leaving and going home helped you dodge a bullet.
Silver lining is this behavior was exhibited on the first date instead of after multiple dates when you would likely be more emotionally invested.
You dodged a bullet!! It sounds like you are caring and considerate person. Sadly, she will miss out on an awesome guy. Keep going and keep smiling! You got this.
"It too shall pass..."
This is not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on her. No matter what that's pretty shit behaviour. I'm sorry dude.
No doubt lol
Who the hell is this floozy girl who thinks tarot cards are cool hahaha dodges a bullet there buddy
Let me tell you something about the people I know who are into tarot cards and astrology
Just no
Probably the same kind of person who thinks religion is stupid and barbaric.
Then goes and bases their entire personality around the location of the stars on their birth date.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, I'm sure I'd feel the same if it were me. But I'd be too much of a coward to actually do what you did and leave. Good you didn't spend the rest of the day with them.
But do not fret! You got a match, which means you can get another one again. Plus, I think any sensible girl should completely adore and admire you for your thoughtfulness. Reading Beauvoir just because of her interests? Researching on an artist of a exhibit? Handpicking a well-themed cafe to fit what she likes? Unmatched. Many wouldn't go to that level.
If you keep it up, you're bound to find someone who will appreciate that and more in you. Good luck :))
Yeah! I was really impressed with the amount of effort and attention you put into her interests before meeting up!
As other commenters noted, it'd be worth toning that down a little on the first date -- not because it's bad by any means, vut more to protect yourself from high emotional investment and disappointment -- but it bodes well for whichever girl you mutually click with. You'll be interested in her interests and investing effort, and that's hot!
it'd be worth toning that down a little on the first date -- not because it's bad by any means, vut more to protect yourself from high emotional investment and disappointment
Agreed. And it's also important to define what you want in a date yourself, date as in both the person and experience.
Totally agree! If I was this girl, I would be very flattered that you put such level of effort and attention to make a great date. Even knowing that you had your first contact with Beauvoir could initiate a great conversation. Personally, I also think that those committed with holistic things are very susceptible to someone that says what they want to hear.
dude, that girl is a wretched human. I'm sure it hurts, but you didn't lose someone good.
He actually dodged a bullet here - got to see her true colors in short order and moved on - fake phone call was brillant and well played!
Lucky for him, the bullet hit the other guy!
He agreed to go on a date with someone he knew was into tarot cards, so I'd say he dodged a bullet he'd already jumped in front of. Dave basically hit him with the "Get down Mr. President"
Right? As soon as she said all of her interests I would've IMMEDIATELY been out of there. People these days just blatantly ignore red flags lol
Lmao, I wouldn't have even faked a phone call. I would have just gotten up and left from the coffee shop without a word
I know it won't feel this way now, but you got a lucky escape. She's clearly not very kind and that was a supremely harsh thing to do on a date.
One thing for you though, try not to over invest in a first date. The level of planning you did was all centred around someone you don't know. That's putting a lot of pressure on yourself.
One woman I dated wanted to do something more exciting than meeting for a drink. We booked a ghost walk and we ended up not going on said walk. Everything just fell apart after we finished our booze and it became very clear we weren't suited.
Hilariously, she told me she was done and was going home (I was, to be fair, being a bit of a douche that evening, for a variety of insecure reasons). She told me I should still go on the walk (as if I needed permission) before asking me to give her the money back for her ticket.
I met her while out a few times in the next 18 months and she was just weird. She still had my number and would send me lewd photos of herself, so we met for a drink to see if there was something between us, and she decided there wasn't and basically faded on me.
Six months later, she gets in touch again, following the same pattern of sending lewd photos and suggestive messages. One night she asks if I'll come over to her place cause she's horny and lonely, and I went, like an idiot.
Honestly, it was a hideous experience. I realised I didn't like her at all, but felt awkward about turning up and just leaving, so... Anyway. The moral of the story is this:
If someone shows you they aren't interested or thoughtful or kind at the start, keep away from them.
What a strange situation you found yourself in. It's good you were able you learn from it. Why do you think she kept trying to get with you?
She said it herself- she was lonely and wanted dick
it's a shitty move on her part, you can't do much to prevent that
Jesus Christmas, let's hope it's a once in a lifetime thing for OP!
Stuff happens. Bet she would have been a nightmare gf if it had proceeded. Bullet dodged and hey the water is full of fish. Stiff upper lip and go again. This time don't research anything. Just be relaxed and show interest in her and she should do the same Good luck We all had the bad experiences
That's horrible. I'm glad you pulled the ripcord and got out of there. I have a feeling she'll do the same thing to Dave soon enough.
There was nothing here to be salvaged, so no need to think on it further. You've absolutely dodged a bullet.
App dating can be harsh, so as much as I might get excited about a first date with someone, I try not to invest a lot of hope or energy until after we've met and I know the connection is real. It's really admirable that you read up on her interests, thought up conversation topics and planned a two-part date based on that. It's hard to say without more context, but you may have come across a little too eager. The best first dates, in my opinion, are about feeling a natural and relaxed connection.
You sound like a great person and a thoughtful partner. I hope the next date deserves you.
This is terrible. I'm sorry that happened to you 😔 I would have felt awful. The girl clearly has no idea what she wants and went with the flow. I'd say, it's better to filter such people out early and you saved yourself a bigger heartbreak.
It's always a good idea to meet for coffee as a first date. Trust me, this is the best idea if you met via an app. I've filtered a lot of people out on a first date. It's cheap and you don't waste your whole day, if it didn't go well. In the lockdown, I've stuck to a virtual coffee. Second dates can be more elaborate with dinners/ activities. Good luck 🤗
I was afraid that, if the first date was too simple, there wouldn't be a second.
If you two really enjoyed talking with each for a bit over coffee, there will be a second :) If not...you won't lose much. I know for myself I would feel less nervous and more myself at a coffee date with someone I don't know than something more formal or organized. A more formal or organized first date makes more sense with someone who you already know somewhat as a friend or acquaintance.
Dates that feel like they need to be catered to or entertained by another person are way more trouble than they're worth
Don't be afraid of this. A "simple" date, like coffee or a walk is the best way to showcase you as the main feature. Like other people have said, making a bunch of plans or doing other things is for later dates when they already like you.
Movie dates are the absolute worst IMO. You sit next to each other, don't talk, and just kind of exist without paying attention to each other. Early on it should be about you (and him/her).
Here's the thing - you're dating online. You two are strangers. If you two have mutual interest then a simple coffee date isn't going to hinder that. If anything it will make the desire to talk and hangout even more
Your date idea wasn't wrong, but it might be a bit much for two strangers. Keeping it casual is not a bad thing.
Sounds like you worry that your personality isn't enough and you need to plan things or buy people off so that they like you. The right person will like you for you, not what you do for them.
The first date is not only to see if the other person likes you, it's to see if you like them. That is such an important part that's hard to remember. A first date should be low key so that you can evaluate if your investment is worth it.
The whole point for the first date is to know each other more see if there's some chemistry not to do something to please the other.
I know,what you did is sweet, and thoughtful but nowadays doing this right off the bat is not really a good thing.
I have male friends who say they keep first dates to something simple, like coffee. They do so because they've had so many bad first dates and they were wasting money and time on girls who didn't appreciate or value their effort.
While I hate to say it because your date sounded awesome, perhaps save stuff like that for date two or three.
I'm sorry dick Dave stole your date, she probably won't be that nice to him either realistically. Good luck!
I'm a woman and I agree. Keep the first one simple, coffee date, get a drink, walk around park. Etc.
I had to talk down guys surprisingly from let's get dinner together and they seemed offended. Like dude, we don't know each other, if we like each other, sure let's get some food but if we don't, let's just separate after coffee.
Exactly. So many men insist they pay for the meal too; I don't want to feel guilty if there's no love connection. Tacos or coffee for a first date is perfect.
I dont really feel guilty... unless they are absolutely the sweetest person in the world and I just feel nothing (and I can't help that). I insist on paying my share either way but if they won't budge... then its no longer my problem.
Agreed I use to make expensive dates like concerts, art exhibits, hockey games and I found they were just awkward and left me feeling like I invested way too much into the date and like OP was upset.
Coffee dates are perfect for a 1st date as there's limited distractions, its cheap and you can leave at any time without feeling like you invested too or too little in the person. Its how I met my current Girlfriend and we had a great time chatting.
Dude, you dodged a bullet. Who does something like that? Not someone you want to be in a relationship with, that's for sure. It's stories like this that make me ask myself, "WTF is wrong with people?"
I think you did a great job organizing, but you put a little too much effort in. Next time, don't invest yourself in her interests so early, let's be honest it was a waste of time. She left you for the fortune teller (which is disgusting behavior on her end). Maybe that's unpopular. I do respect you for your effort though, I rather see this than nothing.
This is why if I were to choose a date, it would be to a coffee shop. Inexpensive, we can talk, it's casual, and there is little room to fail.
Especially in an online date, they aren't invested in you at all yet. No need to go the extra mile yourself too quickly.
Edit: this is why I hate online dating. People always want to "move up", but then ruin their chances with others because they think their so good. It fuels narcissism.
So, he didn't snatch her. She's capable of making her own decisions, & she chose to be completely inconsiderate. Someone's loyalty isn't dependent on the people around them, it's dependent on their own personal values. Don't fall into the trap of assuming women are constantly that flighty & inconsiderate. Too many people do that & they become possessive, controlling & abusive to others.
What happened there isn't a very common occurrence, so don't worry too much about it happening in the future. Your approach was very thoughtful, & unfortunately you're extra vulnerable after being out of dating for so long, so it hurts a lot more. You removed yourself in good timing & were respectful. You did everything right, but doing that will never be good enough for the wrong person. I'm sorry you had to deal with such a shit person right off the bat. It'll probably make your future dates seem better by comparison.
I love this comment.
Drop by 'Dave', thank him profusely for saving you wasting any further time on a trash human and wish him all the best... sniggering under your breath the whole time, envisioning the dreadful and shallow time they may have together.
Okay, maybe don't... but still, mentally thank this guy.
*edited to add - you sound lovely, don't stop being nice.
Seriously don't stop being nice! I'm a single 25F that hasn't dated in 5 years either. BUT the guys that do attract my attention are the ones that are incredibly kind.
[deleted] 1 month ago ago
What she (and the other dude) did was extremely inconsiderate and not something you deserve. That being said, I think that your strategy was not the correct one from the get go. You definitely overinvested in this one and the biggest mistake was making this date about her, instead of something you feel interested in. Your date setting and topics would only be spot on IF you like feminism, esoterism and so on. You researching about X author to have some conversation topic only shows a façade to your date and she will be disappointed, and maybe angry, when she finds out that is not the real you.
I would suggest finding some common grounds quick, invite her out to a place you fancy (and most women fancy too), like a cool restaurant for drinks and take it from there. Put some effort, but in the end, you need to be and do you. If both don't feel anything, then there's no point going forward.
In the meantime, focus on yourself. Workout. Go hiking. Do some exercise. Meditate. Have a skin care routine. Work on a side project. You will attract the correct (and better girls!) over time.
Big ups bro you went on a date! There will be many many more!
My god man.First off, this girl is a POS. and what she did was awful.
BUT HOLY COW:Do not ever over invest into someone you don't know...Paying for exhibit tickets? No way out if things don't go well? Reading up on her interests.
My man this isn't a job interview. You need to drop the desperation. Dating is about mutual attraction, not about making someone like you with your well-informed bullshit on feminism.
I mean JEEZ DUDE. I understand you've been out of the game for a long time. But just go out with someone and see if your personalities vibe. If they do, you'll get a next date, if they don't you will know.
There is no amount of knowledge you could have learned about a specific topic that will make someone like you.
It's like when people are attracted to tattoos. Yes they may like someone with tattoos, but if that person doesn't engage them in mutual attraction, it does not matter at all.
Be funny, be chill, be a good listener, be yourself. All the pretentious material you are trying to learn for your dates is the exact reason why you won't get a call back.
This 1000%. You gotta love yourself to love others, and I don't think you go around tossing money at unreliable things. Just respect yourself, your time and your money.
The real challenge is doing that AND remaining as good as you are.
You were so lovely, the thought you put into this date is spectacular. You will find someone who will appreciate how thoughtful and considerate you are. This is on her, not you.
This might be an unpopular opinion but maybe she just...wasn't the one for you? Maybe you two meeting Dave was some divine intervention so that you didn't waste any more of your time with someone that doesn't really seem to be on your level. When you meet The One, you will likely have similar interests and ideas, and you won't have to "prepare" to converse with them- it'll flow naturally. You'll share the things you love and they can share what they love, and the conversational topics will be more organic. I kinda feel like there are NAH. But I'm sorry for how upsetting that must have been :(
My ex husband didn't even treat me this well on our wedding day/night (that is part of why he is my ex). You definitely were not the disaster here, she was. There are a lot of good women out there that would very much appreciate the effort you put into your first date so please do not give up. I am so sorry you went through this. You may have dodged a bullet with this one.
Holy shit she believes in tarot readings? You dodged a big red flag OP!
Bro anyone who believes in holistic medicines and tarot readings is a fucking moron anyway, you dodged a bullet.
Is there any way that I can avoid this kind of situation?
Yes a few things...
Find a neutral location. If it is within her element but not in yours she has the upper-hand. There is also nothing to suggest that people there wouldn't be known to her. Certain communities generally know each other (including FOAF).
Avoid any variables. Life is full of them... so any readings are very risky. Some people take them deadly seriously and others see them as a bit of fun. Bottom line is you don't need doubt planted or any hints that you might not work out. You also don't need the first relationship breakup where magically a bit of lighthearted fun from several dates ago becomes the omen to prevent you sorting out your differences.
Seek out red line incompatibilities. You were just incompatible. It is sweet to be open-minded enough to learn about someones interests and so forth, but had you had more luck in dating you may not have bothered asking her out. Unfortunately appearance isn't all that... you want to find someone attractive of course, but compatibility is from within... becoming a male feminist would just be an act. I honestly think fate was set from the beginning... she entertained your interest and there was likely no second date from this at all even if the first date had went well from your perspective. She would have still sought distractions from other guys.
Avoid bad communicators... If people are finding other people online for friendship and relationships, if they are social creatures in the flesh, why aren't they good communicators online through an app or texting? There are many reasons why but the primary one is making you low priority.They are communicating, just not so much with you. Which is okay if you know where you stand.
Dating... it is difficult. Do you need the same hobbies and interests - or to know enough - to get on with someone? Or should you know absolutely nothing from the offset? There really is a thing that people need common interests for a relationship - or even supporting the same sports teams - which is a load of nonsense really. Some people won't entertain people with different hobbies whilst others embraces it for being different. I think you knew you needed to emulate her hobbies to stand a chance and perhaps she could tell it wasn't sincere or that you were trying too hard. Either way, doesn't excuse her attitude and inviting a third party along on your date (she could have came back another time to meet him, so I will assume she deliberately wanted to terminate your date).
I think the emergency excuse was embarrassing but you saved face having to put up with tagging along to this new impromptu date she set up with this guy on your date. Rude doesn't cut it... what a horrible person she is and a lucky escape you had.
Man that was horrible but you are a good dude, the girl in the other side is a douche you dont lose anything.
On the plus side, maybe handsome Dave saved you because Tarot card readings aren't real (just based on obvious speculation).
The fact that you identified the date wasn't going well and left was perfectly done. You didn't plan on her being a shitty person, and left once you realized. Not all first dates go well, you left before it got worse. There will be more dates in the future, they will not be as bad as this one.
It was not your fault mate, dont overthink it. She was being an asshole, thats all.
Would you want to be with someone who ignores you on dates, has zero perception on how you feel about things and will brazenly flirt with other men? Gonna assume no. So be glad you didn't get sucked in any further.
Also, unless you genuinely don't care about the money, don't fork out on a first date.
Also also, fuck Dave.
Yea fuck him that bastard
You dodged a bullet, she belongs to the streets dude. Don't mourn a shitty person like this, take it on the chin and move on to the next.
i appreciate the effort you took to plan the date! i'm sure there will be a girl worthy enough to go on those dates with you!! ☺
Nothing you could've really done tbh. Only difference I wouldve made is when she invited Dave, I wouldve ended the date there, gone and got a refund on those exhibit tickets and deleted her contacts. Very shady for a person to flirt with someone else on a date let alone invite them along. Sounds like you dodged a bullet In future, for your first date pick a local bar or coffee shop, keep it simple and cheap, dont put so much effort in incase you meet another one of these kind of girls. That way if it goes south you're not losing much....and always split the bill on the first date man, you're not someones bank.
Don't say nothing he could've done.. that's simply not true. Putting effort into a first date and making a cool gesture is perfectly fine with me if you have the disposable funds.... BUTTTT
1) He tried to "mold" himself to fit her views, beliefs, likes, interests rather than being himself
2) Rather than redirecting the attention from her and requesting his own tarot reading, he rushed them and mentioned the show.. painting himself into a corner. He didn't even try to participate, regardless as to how left out of the conversation he was
3) He didn't object when she invited a third party. He could've easily said "Honestly, we're on a date. Maybe you guys can catch up later". If they exchange numbers in his present, he could just state his discomfort and bail
4) He gave them his tickets.. like seriously!!??
She used tarrot cards. Ya dodged a bullet my friend
This reads like a piece of comedy. You did almost everything wrong. "Superliking" her, reading a fucking novel to pretend to care for her interests, leaving angry and bitter with weird excuses when someone else talked to her etc - all of you behaviour SCREAMS desperation and girls can smell this from miles aways.
Next time, you take the girl to a fun place that YOU want to go to and you talk about stuff you want to talk and when she starts ignoring or disrespecting you, you tell her that you won't accept that and if she doesn't stop you leave without any lame excuses. Be a man.
PS: Her behaviour definitely was shitty and you couldn't have changed that. But you can change your own whole attitude. You're likable and the prize, too. Stop the "I'm a loser and will do anything for attention"-thing. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy when you rate yourself lower than your date.
No need to be so harsh. I am a girl and the OP sounds really sweet even if he over-invested in a first date with a girl who turned out to have absolutely no manners. Yes, OP could likely benefit from better self-esteem and being himself at his first dates rather than designing the first date to completely fit the girl's interests unless he actually shares those interests himself but this is a common thing to struggle with. This is a good learning experience for him and it's not his fault that this girl was very disrespectful.
Good learning experience? This Dude lived my literal nightmare.
Lol true but this kind of thing happens to a lot of people. Everyone deals with rejection and rude people. Lots of people here are giving him good advice so that hopefully it doesn't happen again. Even if it does happen again, if he is more confident by then, he can actually feel happy that he dodged a bullet early on and move on to the next potential date more easily.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger xD
He has good intentions and I get his thought process, but he shot himself in the foot by being so desperate and overinvested in combination with low self-respect.
Right! Like he's a person on this date too. It's about him seeing if he's interested in her TOO. Not all about her. Go somewhere you think you'd both enjoy. Talk about your own interests.
First, it wasn't a novel, it was an essay. And I didn't pretend to care, I just wanted to seem sharp if she asked me about it. I didn't left angry and bitter, they even kept the tickets. Maybe I have to agree with you, I probably came across as desperate.
Most of the replies you're getting are from men, who think they know what women want. If someone came to a date with me and said they read an essay to better understand my stance, I would be flattered. It shows you're willing to put some effort into a relationship, and that's important to a lot of people.
Yeah, but you get my point. When I read that you read a fucking essay to pretend that you know about her feminist stuff, I actually laughed loudly. And it didn't get better from there... you can downvote all you want, but don't turn yourself into someone's circus monkey on a date. It's actually the worst thing to do ever. And you should have taken the goddamn tickets ... Holy Shit, you paid for their date. It gets worse and worse.
Everyones downvoting you and I'm not sure why. You're giving the correct answer even if it hurts to hear.
Feminist, art degree, tarot readings. Sounds like a bad dream, I think you simply dodged a bullet. More experience for next time, it's a memory that you'll laugh about in the future do not worry. Rooting for you.
This was very cringe to read. Ouch. This is what I have to say:
Stop trying to adapt to a girl, let alone on the first date. Don't make "lists" of possible topics to talk about. All because she seems like a feminist or is into art doesn't mean you have to start doing research to impress her. That actually comes off creepy. If you're already into that stuff then great. But if she were to ask you a feminist themed question, just be honest and say you don't know and have her explain instead of trying to flex something you just learned minutes ago for this particular girl.
This girl in general just sounds crazy. If a girl is advertising on her tinder profile before meeting that she is into holistic things or is an active feminist, then that should have been a hard swipe left and not a super like.
First date should be something straight forward, like a dinner or a walk in a park kind of thing. If you guys are enjoying your time then you can propose to do something else. Don't plan a coffee date plus a show to an exhibit, that was 2 dates crammed in one.
I hope you didn't pay much for those tickets. Anything above a standard movie ticket and I split it. Even some movie tickets I'll have the girl pay unless I really like her.
What I did respect you for, is leaving the exhibit. A better thing would have been you just leaving without telling her or being honest "look, I came here to get to know you, but this is kind of weird so I'm leaving.". But at least you left and didn't let her do that to you. Lots of weird girls on tinder but you'll look back and laugh at this one day.
Hate to be the bad guy here, but it sounds like this is a "no assholes here" scenario. You two barely knew each other, and by your own admission she was in to a bunch of stuff you weren't. She met a guy who was into the same stuff as her and she made her move. Instead of sharing your feelings you first tried to control the situation, then just lied and ran away.
Was it the classiest move for her? Not at all... but also she didn't owe you a thing.
Lol yeah you're right. He shouldn't feel bad because she doesn't owe him a thing like being considerate, respectful and showing some decency.
This shit cannot be real
Fuck, that's a tough one boss. I'd just say bad luck there, they aren't all that bad
Maybe you're lucky. You lost a terrible person before anything started (:
It happens dude. But you know it only takes once for success to make all these failures just funny stories.
When someone shows you who they really are, BELIEVE THEM!!
F-ck that shitty human.
It sounds like you weren't a great match in first place. That last part is a bummer. Work on that self-esteem. Increase the number of shots you take and it will work out eventually! Good luck man. Don't overthink things...
Man you dodged a bullet, lucky you got to know on the first date. A persona that does this is not a good person so go on with your life it's plenty of girls that deserves better and will treat you as someone important
Oh dude, she was mean af. She just sounds like a bitch that doesn't give af and would do that to anyone. Like, I'll admit I'm a bitch but I know better than to hurt someone like that. I know it hurts but that's all on her.
Bro you did great. Don't worry about her, you did your thing and were very thoughtful. The right girl will appreciate that and not pull some shitty thing like this.
Having said that, I'd like to say maybe work on setting boundaries. Having been out of the game for 5 years, we can all forget that it's ok to establish boundaries. So in a moment like that, dig deep and say something like "actually, I'd like to continue the night just you and I". That's having respect for yourself. But I'll say again, her response regardless was shitty and disrespectful. You dodged a bullet.
"you guide others to a treasure you cant possess" red skull
Holy... Wow. That... you picked a girl too emotionally young. That's really what it is. That and also she's a bitch. Seriously, this one isn't on you. She's the bad person who did something shockingly bitchy. I think all the comments you get can attest to that. Just keep trying, you're gonna be fine, and they will mostly not be... that.
Dang bro, but you survived and sometimes that's all you can do.
you can't change a disrespectful person, let alone 2 disrespectful people. Don't blame yourself for that one. Never give up, you will find your person, but start with coffee only, go home reflect and then decide on a longer date,
Bruh.. if a bitch tells you she's bad at texting, that's your first red flag. There isn't a woman alive who is "bad" at texting. She just wanted to use you for food (which she did) and have no interest in being with you. Jesus this is cringy
Honestly, be glad you she showed her cards now. Get back in that horse and forget about her. She's not worth it.
Dave kinda did you a favor, but also fuck Dave.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
This genuinely sounds like something that would happen in the Joker movie if he went on a date.
You sound very sweet and thoughtful. Don't lose that.
But this is a good lesson in being a little less invested when you first meet someone. Put yourself in a position of power.
Which is to say, care a little less. I think being more abrasive would have helped you. Like interrupt the reading and say we're going if you see it getting intimate, even if that's "rude". All's fair in love and war.
You kinda just let it all happen to you out of politeness but life is brutal and isn't going to give you what you want unless you push for it. You didn't step in to push the date going into a more favourable outcome for you and it went the way of nature. Don't hold it against her either, calling her a bitch like these other comments isn't going to change what happened or give you any insight about why.
Who tf is this Dave piece of shit anyway? Just does tarot readings in a coffee shop but is not actually working there seeing as he can just piss off to gallery's whenever he feels like it? What a DOUCHE. go braid you're anal hair Dave, and stick an organic banana up you're ass. You sound lovely. Dw Dave and this bitch will be fighting because of their rising moons soon.
A 21 year old did a 21 year old thing, shocker
Don't beat yourself up my dude. You went above and beyond to plan a wonderful first date and she's clearly an inconsiderate twat that wasted your time. Dont let that ruin any other opportunities! I'm sorry you had to go through that, especially since its been so long since you had a date. I hope you get treated fairly and wish you all the best from the PNW! You got this!
Honestly you seem like a catch planning all that and thinking of everything. Someone will REALLY appreciate it!
What a bithc
After she said it was a bummer you should've countered with "somehow I don't think it is, have fun." And left.
It kind of sounds like you got too invested before you even got to know this girl, which is setting yourself up for disappointment. With that being said, she acted like a jerk and it's probably a good thing it didn't work out.
I am really impressed with the kind of support this community gives to strangers. I love this about these wholesome subs. A lot less negativity compared to other platforms. You guys are great.
I'm writing this from a female perspective. It was so sweet of you that you prepared and were enthusiastic for the date actually. I'm pretty sure you were polite and kind all the time. However the person you had date with was a horrible and immature person to do this. There is nothing you can do to prevent this kind of stuff. Because shitty people are everywhere. I'm sure and hope you will find someone who values you. Because I can clearly see you have a gentle heart. All the best...
Actually, She was never serious into this date at all. It looks like she wanted a time pass. And the Dave Guy took a bullet for you. Good save from Dave. Don't even feel bothered. Forgot about romance. If any one, be it a friend or stranger that don't value your time, should be out the window. Good lesson, move on! Don't lose hope.
Totally unacceptable date etiquette on her part, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I know it hurts because you liked her a lot but if that's how thoughtless she is you dodged a major bullet.
With regards to the future, I would suggest going into a first date a bit more casually. I know that doesn't sound super romantic but I almost see a first date as a test of whether or not this person is someone is as cool in person as they seem online. If they are and you guys vibe, great, go nuts and plan something special for Date 2. But if she's a flake, or weird/mean, all you're out is some time and a few bucks for a coffee.
Really shitty of her. I hope you don't take it too hard. She definitely wasn't worth your time.
Just a bad break pal. Head up and move onto the next date. It will be better than that one. I guarantee it.
OP , you know what be a good idea, sending this thread to that girl. And blocking her right away without giving her any closure
To me it seems that you are a so called "nice guy". I recommend you to look up on Google/ YouTube " how to overcome the nice guy" or smth similar
Don't let that experience set your mindset for future dates! It just means that she wasn't the one for you. Some advice I would give to you is: don't plan everything soooo much, your personality can get lost in the process and "you being you" is the most valuable thing you can offer. I am always very attracted to the people who are unapologetically themselves (when not crossings the barriers of disrespect, of course). For example, one of the things I like the most about my bf is that he is not scared of admitting that he's really bad at this or that or that he knows nothing about something, he's true to himself and, same as I enjoy hearing him talk about his things, he seems to enjoy hearing me talk about mine. Be yourself! I know it's cliche and kind of looks like a lie, but really, the right person will like the part of you that doesn't know shit about Beauvoir even if she's a feminist, she will like you for you. Sorry that was too long, all that said, you did a wonderful job and seemed to be really nice c:
What a bitch (her, not you)
That's shitty of her, and shitty of him. You did fine and actually exiting early as a great plan. You were not the train wreck,
Ah I'm so sorry. That really is an unlucky situation and quite rude of her when she could've made other plans with this guy. It was really thoughtful of you to put effort in and hope your next date is more enjoyable 💗💗
You haven't done anything wrong. She was just disrespectful. Don't give up. Keep going on dates
You put too much into the first date. Usually the first time you meet with someone is just to see if you'll even like them in person - just a coffee or a drink is enough. If there are subsequent dates, then it would be worth your time to invest a little bit more.
The best way to avoid this situation is don't meet women on Tindr.
Love how he was like: Ugh "tall, handsome DAVE..."
Keep your head high man, agree with other commenters you dodged a bullet here. At least she showed her true colours on the first date and not after you had been on a few dates and gotten to know her better.
Consider that a bullet dodged, mate.
Tarot cards?!?! Lmao. Dodged a bullet if she believes in that kind of horseshit.
The only thing you did wrong was make an excuse to leave .
Lol you dodged a huge bullet man. Better this happened on your first date than your tenth. She would have screwed you over eventually
Unfortunately mate she turned out to be a terrible person. But there were signs... Feminist, art student, into tarot cards... I would not have gone on that date.
She was a straight up arsehole.
Don't be trying to go on dates with 21 year olds as a 26 year old would be step #1
First dates are non-committal affairs that shit will happen. The only thing you can do is set clear boundaries for yourself and not wear your heart on your sleeve so much. Next time just walk away.
She disrespected you. Not your fault, at all.
When she invited him you should've just laughed at her and got up and walked out without saying anything. Let her figure it out. What she did was so rude and inappropriate and I can't stand that kind of behavior. It's high school behavior and there's no excuse to treat someone that way unless they did something to deserve it.
Hey if it makes you feel better one time I marched with a younger woman (she was 27 and I was 36 at the time). We had been flirting and texting for a few days and were ready to meet in person. She wanted me to get snapchat and send her a selfie, and I obliged.
I guess she didnt like what she saw because she immediately blocked and unmatched me, which I found amusing because she literally used filters in all her pics, and though I'm no model I'm a fairly attractive man. I was pretty upset about it at first but I've since found the love of my life, and we both laugh at her shallow stupidity, it was HER loss. You will realize that too one day when you have found your person. Stay strong and value yourself!
You shouldn't feel bad. These type of sht happens to alot of people. She sounds like either a horrible or dense person for doing something like that to you in the first place.
Move forward.
Next time you see a dude with your date and he doesnt leave. Say "peace out." Don't waste your time.
What a trashy move on her part. I'm sorry you experienced that. Chin up! Most women wouldn't be that cruel
Wow, you went above and beyond for that girl and she just ditches you for another guy like that. The lack of social awareness from her is astounding. Did you message her afterwards? I'd love to know what she said
You should have dipped and not felt the need to make an excuse as to why. She was totally disrespectful and you deserve better.
This wasn't your fault and was just bad luck. Most women know not to start flirting with some guy in front of their date. This woman was doing something very wrong and its actually a win this didn't work out because she is terrible.
I don't think you did anything hugely wrong and this was due to external factors. Just try again with someone else and hope she is a good person this time.
If I had to critique your approach in little ways here it is. You were spending all this time learning all her favorite topics and pandering to her and trying to make her like you. Instead, brush up on her favorite topics but don't go overboard.
On the date its great to make a good impression and talk about her interests. But make sure that she is also trying to talk about your interests too and trying to get you to like her. You should be evaluating whether she is even compatible with you and if you even like her. Maybe if she isn't interesting, or her personality is wrong, or your interests don't align, then its a dud.
You dodged a bullet right there OP.
Bitches huh lol
Both my fiancé and I basically lost 6-8 years of our twenties and early lives when it came to dating so we met at the right time. Both of you are still young and early to dating so I wouldn't be hard on yourself and her (she's 21, nobody knows themselves or where they want to end up becoming at that age). You gave a good effort and I was guilty of trying like you at a young age too but learned through experience, time and bad dates that it was more important over the next many years to learn to be comfortable with being myself, learning what I had to contribute and who I wanted to be as a partner and vice versa. That translates to treating yourself with esteem and respect - so that when something like your bad date comes along, you know it's not your fault and you know that type of person who doesn't have respect or courtesy for you - is not worth your time. The more you stay true and clear about who you want, the less you get unnecessarily burned by people who like her who would never be good or right for you in the first place. And you probably wouldn't be the fit for her either. Bad dates then become part of a process and not an outcome that was your fault or hers. Hope you can keep your head up and don't feel discouraged. Hope you find more things to love about yourself and enjoy doing. It's more rewarding to show people who you are and find people who want to invest in you and vice versa than forcing situations to cater to who you think or build them up to be. Effort is always appreciated by the right person but never sell your own self short - people gravitate to others who show their substance, kindness and passion.
Yes, you could have avoided it by not pretending to be a good match, when you weren't. You did all this research to try to play the role of a straw man you thought she would be interested in, and assumed she was an idiot who wouldn't know the difference. Obviously you were wrong.
TBH this was a total "nice guy" move on your part, and it ended as well as it usually does.
TL;DR: She wasn't mean. You were fake.
She was in the wrong, but dude--you were pretty much the definition of 'doormat' here. You ever thought of saying "no we are on a date" when she invited Dave along? She was a bad date, but take this as a lesson to stop being so fucking passive. Jesus.


text:
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subset: commoncrawl


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text:
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uhumeliz hat die Gruppe Espresso Tips That May Absolutely Delight You! erstellt vor 2 Jahren, 8 Monaten


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When it comes to digital shopping, it's no surprise that Amazon comes out first by almost every measure. But a new report from Gartner and L2 finds that after Amazon, Best Buy and the Home Depot also deserve "Genius Status."
Walmart, Target and Wayfair are ranked as "Gifted."
And of the 68 retail chains measured, five do so poorly they merit a "Feeble" ranking: Home Goods, Family Dollar, RH, Ethan Allen and Do It Best.
The report finds that by and large, chains are doing a better job of blurring the lines between physical and online shopping. "Big-box retailers are less concerned with which channel shoppers choose to convert — 76% of retailers with physical stores offer in-store pickup, and over half offer online shoppers the ability to filter items on category pages by in-store availability," the report says. "These features allow customers to purchase and receive products through a multitude of channels, as well as help create a credible and convenient alternative to Amazon Prime's free two-day shipping."
In addition to using digital to boost sales, more stores are using their physical locations to create better experiences, innovate with new fulfillment options and leverage category expertise.
Best Buy and the Home Depot score so highly because they are finding ways to turn that in-store expertise experience -- finding a blue shirt or an orange apron to consult -- into a digital experience, as well.
While 62% of all the stores in the survey offer a live chat feature, it says the Home Depot excels with its new Apple Business Chat experience, in addition to providing live chat on its brand site and mobile app. And it says Best Buy helps people making big purchases with "interactive comparison functionality on both desktop and mobile."
That company's customer service technologies and loyalty programs, including Best Buy's Geek Squad access, better position it to compete against Prime.
The survey points out that both Walmart and Target are growing from digital transactions, but that most recent advances in comparable store sales have come from predominantly in-store purchases, in part due to in-store and curbside pickup.


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The Cayman Islands Governor, Duncan Taylor, seems to be acting as a modern day Goliath, in his bid to bar the public from knowing any details of Operation Tempura.
Through his lawyers, Taylor is now seeking to have the judicial review to be held 'in camera', and for "any submissions made to exclude other parties to protect the confidentiality of the records requested".
'In camera' means the hearing of a trial or hearing, in whole or in part, that is conducted in private and the public galleries are cleared and the doors locked, leaving only the judge, the Court clerk, the parties and lawyers and witnesses in attendance.
It is a rare and infrequent occurrence for a Court to do this as public access and transparency are both paramount to justice.
However, the legal findings in support of the governor's application for judicial review claims, "It is necessary to modify the court's procedure in these proceedings as otherwise the procedure would frustrate the purpose of the proceedings. The Freedom of Information Law would be fundamentally undermined if, in order to determine whether information was exempt from disclosure, the court brought about the disclosure of that information in any event."
The United Kingdom's Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) have stood by Cayman's previous governor, Stuart Jack, who started the ill fated and costly debacle known as Operation Tempura. The FCO controls all of Britain's governors but when they mess up it is the country they govern that usually foots the bill.
And it is the Cayman Islands that have had to foot this one. Jack's Tempura investigation has seen Cayman's judges at some point arrested, suspended, mired in controversy, a former police chief Stuart Kernohan sacked, UK police sent out here to clean house making the situation even worse under the direction (or non-direction) of now disgraced Scotland Yard's John Yates and his equally questionable side-kick Martin Bridger, top lawyers, and judges flown in from around the world, with not one successful prosecution.
Even worse, some of the accused have been awarded costly settlements, also paid for by us, whilst others are waiting in the wings to have their pay day.
With the bill for some of this already estimated at $30M (the official estimated figure is much lower) we then had Governor Taylor ordering a 185 page review of a complaint filed by Bridger (originally filed and then withdrawn by former and also now disgraced Tempura legal advisor Martin Polaine), who has since been made the scapegoat for the mess and is fighting back like a David, that cost us another $300,000 to produce but its contents withheld from the public. Taylor said words to the effect it was not in our best interests to actually know the truth because there were claims contained therein about sitting members of the Cayman Islands judiciary that are untrue and that could potentially be defamatory.
Then ex Cayman Net News reporter, John Evans, who was used and then dumped by the powers that employed him to light the match under the Tempura bonfire, made a complaint to the Cayman Islands Information Commissioner, Jennifer Dilbert, to have the release of the Tempura documents made public. Dilbert sided on the right hand side of justice and ordered their release that included Bridger's original complaint.
Governor Taylor then, leading a charge with the might of every single expensive lawyer at his command, asked for a judicial review claiming Dilbert's decision was unreasonable.
Documents iNews Cayman have in our possession shows the main issue filed in Taylor's review application pertains to section 54(1) of the Freedom of Information Law that states: "Nothing in this law shall be construed as authorising the disclosure of any official record (a) containing any defamatory matter or (b) the disclosure of which would be in breach of confidence or of intellectual property rights."
Because it would have been difficult to have a Cayman judge rule on whether the judicial review could go ahead it was left to an English high court judge, Sir Alan Moses, to make a decision. He, not unsurprisingly, last 8th February, ruled in favour of Governor Taylor to enable the review to go ahead. This has stayed Dilbert's November order for the documents to be released.
So how much additionally is all of this going to cost our Country? A budget figure of over $500,000 has been whispered in our ears.
Budgets nearly always over run and so it is likely to cost us even more to suppress information we morally should know. There are laws to combat defamatory matters and the FCO and the governor have taken great pains to tell the Cayman Islands government it must show transparency.
Transparency when it suits the FCO. Don't do as I do – do as I say. We are the judge, the jury, the executioner and it doesn't cost us a cent.
But it does cost us and this country is NOT laughing.


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12 Posts
Discussion Starter • #1 •
so my toyota camry 2010 xle has stopped on me three times. the first time i got it to start and drive and it was fine, my dad thought he fixed it but he didnt. it stopped a few days later and didnt start at all. we took it to the mechanic and they said it was the crankshaft sensor so he fixed that and i also got a new battery. it was driving fine but when i would start it, it would kind of delay but it was better than before. A few days later it stopped on me again, on the HIGHWAY. i got it to start and thank god i was right off my exit, i pulled over to a block and tried to turn it on and it stopped turning on completely. my dad came to me, he got it to turn on so i drove it home but felt it shutting down as i was driving. my dad took it to another mechanic the next day, they checked it with the computer scan i guess idk how that works, but didnt find anything they just said to tighten the battery... the thing is, the battery light is still on and so is the check engine light... that doesnt fix anything and its going to stop again. idk what to do


text: One in every of the things that has made constructing recent smartphones less complicated and extra handy for users has been the advent of the eSIM that does away with the need for the minute (and without distress) carrier nanoSIM card. Apple used to be for jog one of the most early adopters of this know-how, and all of its recent smartphones use that feature. Some iPhone users who wished


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Before I can test the breadboarded circuit, I wanted to figure out how to flash the Arduino's firmware. The Uno actually has 2 Atmel MCUs, the main ATmega328 & then a ATmega16U2 which I believe handles the serial-USB connection.
Using Hiduino firmware to replace the stock Arduino firmware, turns the Uno into a class-compliant USB-MIDI device which any MIDI software will recognize.
This step actually gave me the most headaches as there are more than 1 way to do this.
At first I tried DFU programming which most links I found suggested. This involves switching the Uno into DFU mode then running the dfu-programmer utility. I could not get this to work at all, as my Uno refused to go into DFU mode. Much later I realized my Uno had a really old firmware installed on the ATmega16U2! I confirmed this by flashing the official Uno firmware (included in the /hardware subdirectory in the Arduino IDE software directory).
An alternate way to flash the ATmega16U2 is using avrdude, which I found to be much simpler. I hooked up a 6 pin connector to the ICSP (the one close to the USB connector) & using my USBASP flashed the Uno in a few seconds.
avrdude -p m16u2 -F -P usb -c usbasp -U flash:w:usbserial_uno_16u2.hex \
-U lfuse:w:0xFF:m -U hfuse:w:0xD9:m -U efuse:w:0xF4:m -U lock:w:0x0F:mIMPORTANT NOTE: Once you have flashed Hiduino to your Uno, you will no longer be able to write sketches to it via the USB cable. This is a PITA to deal with, as you have to flash the stock firmware, write the sketch, then flash Hiduino again. I couldn't find a way to make this process easier - maybe someone can enlighten me?
To flash the Hiduino MIDI firmware use the following command (with a USBASP):
avrdude -p at90usb82 -F -P usb -c usbasp -U flash:w:arduino_midi.hex -U lfuse:w:0xFF:m -U hfuse:w:0xD9:m -U efuse:w:0xF4:m -U lock:w:0x0F:mNote that I used at90usb82 to flash the Hiduino firmware.
The USBASP programming cable attaches to the Uno as shown here:


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Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Small Boat Electrical
NAVICO WiFi, iLog, and SDK
|Topic: NAVICO WiFi, iLog, and SDK
posted 10-03-2012 01:24 PM ET (US)
[I separated this topic from a general discussion of the new Lowrance HDS Gen2 Touch devices--jimh]
I am very interested to see what the new NAVICO WiFi module will do. It would be really nice to transfer information to my iPhone and iPad and perhaps even do system updates the other way along with live information.
Really though when is the Sonic Hub going to get built in Bluetooth for music streaming, or perhaps AirPlay for streaming music via WiFi. I have this in my truck and I would really like to use iTunes and Pandora on the boat as well without wires.
posted 10-03-2012 02:02 PM ET (US)
I am looking for more information about WiFi and the new HDS Gen 2 Touch Screen units.
So far, all I have found about WiFi is this press release comment:
From that short sentence it appears the WiFi connectivity will be implemented in an external module that will connect via Lowrance's Ethernet network to the HDS Gen 2 Touch Screen device. Lowrance will then provide an application that will allow an HDS Gen2 Touch Screen device (and perhaps only certain ones) to be remotely viewed and controlled using either an Apple iOS device like an iPhone or iPad or an Android OS device.
|K Albus
posted 10-03-2012 02:19 PM ET (US)
Here's a link to the WiFi-1 module on the Simrad website: http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/ NSS-Touchscreen-Navigation/WIFI-1-module-en-gb.aspx .
|K Albus
posted 10-03-2012 02:27 PM ET (US)
The link above takes you to the Great Britain section of the Simrad website. The MSRP for the WiFi-1 is listed at 199 pounds, which is more than $300.
Here's a link to the WiFi-1 module on the U.S. portion of the Simrad page - this will automatically open and begin playing a youtube video - http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/ GoFree-Wireless-Technology/
posted 10-03-2012 03:40 PM ET (US)
Wow. What really stood out about the WiFi module is the SDK will be open allowing third parties to communicate and write apps for the MFD's.
Since it shows that it can read and write data including controlling functions, if their provided app does not provide some feature a third party app may very well be able to implement it.
I wonder if this SDK will allow access to the NMEA 2000 network to interact with any device there-in with standard messages or if it will be massaged and reformatted into something else. They did show an example custom app with engine gauges so I assume the data is available in some format.
posted 10-04-2012 08:49 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the additional hyperlinks to the information on WiFi.
There seems to be three substantial and distinct components of the new system:
--the WiFi radio base unit that will route data between the Lowrance Ethernet and attached WiFi clients;
--a software application that runs on both iOS and Android platforms that will provide a works-right-out-of-the-box solution for viewing and controlling Lowrance HDS Gen2 Touch devices; and,
--a software development kit (SDK) that will allow other developers to produce application software that can utilize the WiFi link and the access available to the Lowrance HDS Gen2 Touch devices.
In addition to the application previewed (in the linked video above) there also appears to be a general purpose boating application that would replace a ship's log as a repository of information and data about a vessel and its voyages. This is quite interesting because there was recently and almost concurrently an announcement from Mercury Marine of a similar application, designed to run on iOS devices, which could connect to Mercury Marine engines, collect data from them, and provide a framework for a boater to accumulate and organize data about their boat and its voyages. Mercury Marine made reference to their engineers having worked with NAVICO in developing new products. This makes me think that NAVICO has already granted a licene to Mercury Marine to use the NAVICO SDK to create the Mercury-branded vessel management software, WiFi access, and iOS device integration. In a press-release, Mercury Marine said:
posted 10-04-2012 09:00 AM ET (US)
NAVICO calls their vessel data management and organizer the iLOG, or so it appears in the video (above) in a quick shot of the software in use. They also mention explicitly that "other manufacturers" will be able to use their software tool kit to customize their presentations, showing a data display customized for SUNSEEKER yachts in the same video. The glimpse we get of iLog looks very similar to the new Mercury Marine product. (See the link to Mercury Marine's Ship's Log application below--jimh.) I am betting that NAVICO has already licensed this to Mercury.
posted 10-04-2012 09:07 AM ET (US)
Here is a better link to the NAVICO video:
This opens the video in a player where you can control the playback. The iLOG application is shown about 1:09 into the recording.
posted 10-04-2012 01:48 PM ET (US)
I tracked down the new Mercury iOS Applet for their Smartcraft systems. It is called Ship's Log. Apparently users of the free iOS applet can share their ship logs in some sort of social network website hosted by Mercury Marine. There are some examples already posted. From the ones posted so far, I don't think the contributors have exploited the full potential of the medium. Here's what I mean. I don't think this sort of content is going to attract a lot of interest in sharing Mercury Marine Ship's Log entries as a social medium.
posted 10-05-2012 08:50 AM ET (US)
It looks like NAVICO does not intend their new WiFi access to be a one trick pony. They appear to already have a second application called REGATTA available. This is very briefly mentioned at 1:15 into the recorded presentation (linked above).
posted 10-26-2012 12:08 PM ET (US)
Panbo recently posted some very detailed and exciting information regarding the GoFree WiFi-1 module and it's SDK:
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2012/10/navico_gofree_wifi1_the_0183_link. html
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2012/10/ navico_gofree_toolkit_developers_invited.html
I am a software developer by trade and it is very surprising to see how how open they are making this system to third party development. From what I have seen this is very unusual in the Marine MFD business.
It looks like at release they will be able to publish NMEA 0183 data out over ethernet for any third party app. So related to the various discussions about using a iPhone or iPad as another chartplotter, it will be able to get GPS data from the boats existing GPS system forgoing the need to have on in the iPad itself.
Beyond that they have addition tiers to be released over time. Tier 2 will be some sort of NMEA 2000 proxy, basically as a developer you will not be dealing with NMEA 2000 directly, but instead an equivalent protocol of Navico's design that then get translated back to the NMEA2K bus for full two-way communication. I guess this avoids some of the NMEA certification issues that exists if they simply bridged NMEA2K commands to TCP/IP. Smart, gives them some lock in for app developers and they can support other data besides NMEA2K if necessary.
Further tiers up through 5 will not be free to use and require app developers to negotiate cost as it will all such things as video streams of the MFD display themselves and full sonar and radar control and data. Tier 5 mentions file transfer, which I would imagine allows things like way-point transfer and perhaps the ability to upgrade the MFD's firmware right from an app, good stuff all though not free and at the highest tier of their model.
In my opinion they are doing all the right things both in hardware and software to make this happen and I predict it will be a big success.
posted 10-26-2012 12:16 PM ET (US)
What I can't figure out is why Panbo is the only source of this information. If NAVICO wants to get this information out to people, maybe they ought to tell a few others besides Ben Ellison or three guys at a trade show.
I also thought it was curious that even though Lowrance and Evinrude have long been collaborators on NMEA-2000 devices such as the LM-400 and I-Command gauges, one of the first customizations of the NAVICO open interface was with Mercury!
The open-source nature of this project looks like a great idea (for a change) in marine electronics.
posted 10-26-2012 12:18 PM ET (US)
It also mentions the ability for the Go-Free to possibly connect to an existing WiFi network in the future, although not when first released, for internet access rather than simply creating it's own for data transfer.
This would allow the MFD's to get out to the internet themselves directly for such things as firmware updates, weather data, perhaps web pages and even music/video.
Most modern smartphones such as an iPhone have the ability to create a WiFi network that grant's any device connected to it access to the internet through the phones cellular connection. This is referred to as tethering and usually needs to be enabled on your cellular plan at an extra cost. Given that ability it is conceivable your boat MFD could access the internet through your smart phone while offshore to say display weather radar over the map among many other possibilities.
Just being able to upgrade the MFD's firmware over the internet while at home in my garage using my home WiFi would be a welcome feature.
Very exciting prospect.
posted 10-26-2012 01:26 PM ET (US)
Here are direct links to NAVICO information on this topic:
GoFree Webpage
GoFreeTM Tier 1 Data Networking Specification Revision 0.6
GoFree Web Interface Specification
posted 02-03-2013 12:13 PM ET (US)
The NAVICO WIFI-1 GoFree Wi-Fi accessory is described at
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-US/Products/ NSS-Touchscreen-Navigation/WIFI-1-module-en-us.aspx
The installation manual is available at
http://www.simrad-yachting.com/Root/Simrad-Yachting-WIFI1/ WIFI-1_IG_EN-FR_988-10401-002_w.pdf
The WIFI-1 module connects to other NAVICO devices through the Ethernet network. The WIFI-1 does not have an NMEA-2000 network connection; it only has Ethernet.
The discounted retail price of the NAVICO WIFI-1 GoFree WiFi accessory is about US$200 to US$230. The device appears now to be available for sale from a number of retailers in the USA.
A independently-produced presentation demonstrates the use of the NAVICO WIFI-1 being used to remotely access a Simrad chart plotter:
A NAVICO presentation (already mentioned in this thread) shows the features:
posted 02-03-2013 12:43 PM ET (US)
In a press release on October 1, 2012, Lowrance said:
Using the search feature provided by Lowrance on their own website, I could not locate any information about the WIFI-1 accessory from Lowrance or the designation "gofree". I tried following some links given in other NAVICO information, but those links just redirected to pages about the HDS Gen2 Touch. It appears the release of this feature or more information about this feature is still in the works for Lowrance.
posted 02-04-2013 01:45 AM ET (US)
Here is a local WiFi module that is made in Seattle, WA. -- It does a lot of the items mentioned, and I have seen it in operation several times on a few boats.
posted 02-04-2013 09:23 AM ET (US)
The DMK WiFi accessory is $400, about double the price of the NAVICO device. At the moment, there seems to be only the provision to transport some data packets and then display them on an iOS device using an applet. There is no provision for remote viewing of the screen of a chart plotter or SONAR or remote operation of a chart plotter or depth sounder controls.
posted 03-19-2013 02:14 PM ET (US)
The Navico iOS app is a full screen mirror and control for the MFD - any chart plotter, sonar or depth sounder controls that can be operated on the MFD can be used from the iDevice. The only thing that's blocked is the autopilot for safety reasons.
posted 05-10-2013 08:12 AM ET (US)
NAVICO have brought their WiFi interface to the Lowrance HDS Gen 2 devices with the announcement of a recent firmware update package. Lowrance HDS Gen2 device can now use the GoFree WiFi interface and display their screens onto connected tablet or smartphone devices like the Apple iPad or iPhone. For more on this new feature or Lowrance devices, see
posted 05-10-2013 08:18 AM ET (US)
Note that with the Lowrance HDS Gen-2 Touch devices, not only does the GoFree WiFi interface provide a display of the screen on the connected tablet device, but the connected tablet can control the HDS Gen-2 Touch device. The control is apparently implemented through the same touch-screen interface used on the HDS Gen-2 Touch devices.
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