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Delaware Library Association Bulletin SPRING 1974 DELAWARE LIBRARY ASSOCIATION BULLETIN Spring, 1974 Volume 27, No.4 Judy Matz, Editor DELAWARE LIBRARY ASSOCIATION OFFICERS 1974-75 President Mrs. Irene Larrimore Vice President Mrs. Jane Hukill Secretary Mr. Walter Lyfeld Treasurer Mr. David Burdash Immediate Past President Mrs. Gloria Rabinowitz ALA Councilor Mrs. Myrtice Wickham MARLF Representative Mrs. Jean Trumbore COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN Historian Mr. William Calhoon Membership Mrs. Barbara May Library Development Mrs. Billie Jean Ouellette Scholarships and Awards Miss Norma Jean Lynch Intellectual Freedom Mr. Robert H. Marshall Program and Hospitality Mrs. Jane Hukill Finance Mr. David Burdash Publications and Publicity Miss Judy Matz PUBLIC LIBRARY DIVISION President Mr. Jeremiah E. Greene, Jr. Vice President Mr. Benedict Prestianni Secretary VACANT Treasurer Mrs. Carolyn Huff ON LEAVING OFFICE "To promote library service and librarianship in the state of Delaware" is one of the objectives of the Delaware Library Association as outlined in this organization's Constitution. A poll of the 200 members of our organization would most probably yield as many methods of facilitating this goal. We are seeking new ideas, fresh approaches to problems, new light on issues discussed before and still pertinent. In the past year several new ideas have come to the fore and have been pursued with very interesting results. One of these was undertaken by an Ad Hoc Committee on Library Co-operation formed this fall. The work of this committee has yielded a published directory of all libraries in the state with brief information on hours, lending policies, reference, etc. Two avenues are being explored by the Committee on Library Development, which is in the process of formulating a proposal for a program to be submitted to the Delaware Humanities Forum. Focusing attention on the issue of "An informed citizeney--what resources are available to achieve this?", the format of the program is a panel discussion with interaction between the audience and panel, composed of representatives from the media, 1ibraries, government, and humanists from local institutions. The second project initiated by this committee is a program for a state-wide educational program, directed toward the goal of informing Delawareans of their library facilities, resources, and services. Sources for funding this program are presently being explored. An Ad Hoc Committee is currently studying the viability of forming an academic division within DLA. There are limitless possibilities for achieving the stated and implicit goals of the DLA. We would like to explore as many as practical. We believe that the membership is in accord with this idea; however, the officers and committee members need your input. Inform us because we are ready to go. - Gloria Rabinowitz, DLA President, 1973-74 Media Mall, Bookhaven, Delaware The operative and enabling principle of a democratic society and representative government is the marketplace of ideas. Libraries are important outlets in that marketplace. A walk through the Media Mall in Bookhaven, Delaware might be instructive. The first store we come to is the supermarket. Here -we can obtain all the most essential goods, especially food and everyday popular items. People of all ages can shop here. Even children can obtain all kinds of food. The check-out clerk makes no attempt to protect them from buying unhealthy food such as sweets. Control of the child's diet is the parents' responsibility. People who do not know enough about nutrition are allowed to buy high cholestrol and other unhealthy foods. Even the sloppiest people can obtain food and other substances, which, if not used properly, can make them and everything they touch filthy dirty. Fortunately, in order to accomodate people who wish to avoid dirt, filth, and smut, a full line of laundry and detergent products and other cleaning agents is stocked. The name of this supermarket where everyone can obtain food for thought is the Public Library. The next store we come to is a farmers' market. Like the supermarket, the emphasis is on food, but all kinds of other wares are also displayed. Most of the merchants are farmers. Farmers are those people who cultivate things and make them grow. Their products are new and fresh. They are often still ripening. The farmers feel that if their products are not properly cared for they become rotten. They don't want any bad apples. In order to have good fruit, farmers use all kinds of special equipment and machines to plant good seeds and nurture them to mature fruit. In order for the seeds to grow, all elements of nature must be utilized; the sun and light, the water, and the soil, dirt and fertilizing manure. One farmer thought that his food would be cleaner and more sanitary, hence healthier, if he used only sunlight and water. But life dosen't work that way. The seeds never germinated, never grew, never became mature plants. This farmer was called the School Media Center. The next store is a large department store. All the best products from all manufacturers are available here. In order to assure that it always has the best products, it maintains a special incentive program for its employees encouraging research and invention called Achievement Foundation. Its customers come in and browse in every department, but usually choose one department in which they spend most of their time, and make most of their purchases. It is quite apparent that this department store's products are quite superior to those of its competitor who does not have a viable Achievement Foundation program. This department store is the Academic Library. There are many other shops of diversified character in Media Mall. There are several factory outlets, antique shops, a post office, and various specialty shops. The factory oulets have found that it is often useful to share and exchange information to save money in research. Sometimes their competitors gain vital information, but as often they receive vital information that gives them a competitive edge over the factory outlets that do not exchange information. The antique shops exchange information and catalogues and help each other because many of their items are unique and they need access to information about the unique items in other shops. The Post Office's unique services are, of course, vital in helping all the stores communicate with each other and with all those outside the Mall having information, materials, and services they need. This vital support service together with the service of the other government agencies housed with it make it an indispensible partner in the marketplace of ideas. In the same way, all the specialty shops found that sharing information with others in their specialty and providing information about their specialties to the general public was in their interest. Most of these shops are housed in the Special Library wing of the Mall. In short, all occupants of Media Mall benefit by participating in the marketplace of ideas. And they need each other's support. All around the mall, throughout Bookhaven, indeed throughout the entire state of Delaware, the storms have done much damage. Other merchants in the marketplace of ideas in Delaware have been toppled by the storms. In the last five years in this state: an underground newspaper has been suppressed, all issues confiscated, and its editor arrested by the State Police for blasphemy; many bookstores and newsstands have been harassed and their merchandise confiscated by Wilmington and Dover police; one Wilmington movie theater was closed and another forced to limit its advertising due to police harrassment; state laws have been passed making the distribution of "obscene" materials illegal with the distributors liable to arrest prior to the material being declared "obscene" in a judiciary hearing. Librarians are not exempt from persecution; state laws have been passed making the distribution of materials "harmful to minors" illegal. Librarians are specifically exempted from prosecution; a state law has been passed making "obscene" materials a nuisance actionable by civil suit. A judgement can be rendered confiscating all equipment from the building where the "nuisance" was found and closing the building. The winds of the storm are blowing stronger and closer to home. Can the walls of Media Mall withstand them? Bookstores, newsstands and movie theaters in the mall itself have already suffered damage. Perhaps all the stores in the Mall need to review their architecture to determine if its walls are able to provide their share of support for the whole and make sure that Bookhaven remains a viable place to live and work. - Robert H. Marshall INSTANT LIBRARIES Mr. Frederic Glazer, Director of the West Virginia State Library, was the featured speaker at the recent DLA Spring meeting held on April 27, 1974 at Brandywine College. Mr. Glazer inspired the audience with his program, "Library Image and Instant Libraries." He cited geographic isolation, poverty, and the traditionally stodgy library atmosphere as chief deterrents to getting library service to the ten million Americans currently unserved. Instant carousel libraries are answering these problems in the small communities of West Virginia. They are attractive, low in cost, quick to build and maintenance - free. The standard single library unit is an eight sided figure, large enough for six thousand volumes with completely movable furnishings. A professional librarian is sent to each location before opening to determine the character and needs of the community. A telephone network links each of these small libraries to the other facilities in the state. Slides of the building procedure and some very well chosen tunes enhanced Mr. Glazer's lively presentation and delighted DLA members. PLD PLANS FOR BICENTENNIAL The Public Library Division of DLA will formulate a committee of librarians to work with other state organizations on Bicentennial plans for Delaware. Anyone interested in participating is encouraged to contact Jerry Greene at the Wilmington Institute Library (656-3131). COORDINATING COMMITTEE ON LIBRARIES The principal concerns of the committee have been maintenance of services relating to library functions at the state level and the action proposed by members of the General Assembly to reorganize the public library system in Delaware. As of this writing, legislation (H. B. 644) to establish county library systems and reduce the state agency to an administrative office is pending. The committee takes the position that Delaware should have a Division of Libraries directed by a librarian professionally qualified and experienced regardless of the type of system to emerge from the legislation. The 'committee will continue to work to re-establish a State Agency administered by a professional staff. The state crisis has overshadowed far-reaching national concerns. However, all library related programs excepting public library construction (LSCA II) were funded for Fiscal Year 1974 and funds impounded in Fiscal 1973 were released. Both House and Senate appropriation bills for Fiscal 1975 provide for consolidation of certain programs and the Administration has announced support for a "Library Partnership Act" but has not released details of the proposal. The Senate has passed a resolution calling for a White House Conference on Library and Information Services for 1976. Support for this legislation, which is now under consideration, is needed. - Helen H. Bennett, Chairman DIVISION OF LIBRARIES The Division of Libraries is presently in the process of moving. The Division will take up new residence in the ETV Building, Delaware State College Campus and will reopen on Monday, May 13, 1974. All librarians have been invited to visit the new quarters after this date. CONCEPTS OF DELAWARE Concepts of Delaware by Dr. Randall L. Broyles (Universal Publishing Associates, c. 1974) is in the process of publication. This new resource is a conceptual approach to the political, economic, social, educational and historical heritage of the state. Wide coverage of all aspects of the state make it a particularly valuable addition to available materials on Delaware. Book Specifications Typeface--------12 point century school book Page Size-------5 ~ x 8~" 350 pages Paper' Stock-----70 pound Ivory Text Cover-----------#76 Basic Binders Board covered with #1 blue linen Binding---------Case Teacher Guide (Optional) Reinforcement for the teacher suggest how to use transparencies and, in general, is written to help the teacher make the subject interesting and meaningful. Prepublication Price: $ 8.25 Prepublication Price: $3.25 8 Overhead Transparencies (Optional) (Size: 8 1/2" x 10 1/4", .003 polyester film) These transpanencies are especially designed Prepublication Price: to supplement this text. They are in full $49.50 color and enable the teacher to hold class interest and to stimulate student participation.* * A minimum order of, 250 sets State-wide will be needed to produce this option. Because of the special nature of this work, orders must be placed before publication. Interested libraries should place their orders by June 1, 1974. There will be only one printing with any additional copies reserved for those who have placed an original order. Orders should be directed to: Universal Publishing Associates 308 South Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33405 Telephone: (305) 655-4025
Click tabs to swap between content that is broken into logical sections.


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TrafficMaker is a packet generator tool that allows you to create custom network packets and send them via any network interface. It can be used to generate junk/malformed random packets, STP, LACP, OAM, and LLDP layer 2 bridging/slow protocol packets, RIPv1, RIPv2, IGMPv1, IGMPv2, OSPF, IS-IS, EIGRP, and HSRP routing packets, SIP and RTP VOIP packets, ICMP, CDP and HSRP Cisco protocol packets, IPv4 TCP packets with various TCP flag options (SYN, ACK, Push, Reset, Urgent, Finish), IPv4 and IPv6 UDP packets, and RADIUS and Kerberos authentication packets. Inline context-specific per-page help is provided.
Pkviz is a tool for plotting and cycling through and animating a series of network packets captured by tcpdump. What makes it unique is that the packets' structure is visualized, not any labels and not time itself. Pkviz takes each byte in a packet and plots it out end-to-end, left-to-right, from the first byte to the last. How high the dot gets plotted depends on the value of the byte: bytes with a value of 0 are at the bottom and those which are 255 (0xff) – the maximum value of a byte – get plotted at the top. This might not be interesting for one packet, but that changes when you start looking at thousands of packets. Pkviz can cycle through thousands of packets in the set so you can see what happened on the wire.
A tool for chatting and exchanging anonymous email and files securely.
A no-cost version of the Arkeia Virtual Appliance for use in VMWare environments.

subset: commoncrawl


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The bipartisan caucus will provide a forum for members of Congress to engage in constructive dialogue on the challenges and needs of mass transit agencies across the country as increasing demand and decreasing funding are putting unprecedented pressure on America's public transportation systems.
"Public transportation is vital to people from all walks of life in communities all across northeastern Illinois. Buses, trains and light rail that run safely and reliably reduce congestion on our roads, improve travel times across all modes, cut down on air pollution and make our communities more attractive places to live, work and own businesses," said Lipinski, who sits on the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee. "Maintaining and improving our public transportation systems must be a part of the solution to creating jobs at home and ensuring our competitiveness in the global marketplace. I look forward to joining Congressman Grimm in calling attention to these issues as co-chair of the new Congressional Public Transportation Caucus."
"New York City has the largest public transit system in the nation, transporting millions of commuters each day by bus, rail and ferry," Grimm said. "A strong public transport system is crucial to our economy and our livelihood, which is why it must be maintained and updated to meet growing demand and ensure the highest levels of safety. Unfortunately, there is currently a gap between where our public transportation infrastructure needs to be and where it is today, which is why this caucus is so important. As co-chair of the Congressional Public Transportation Caucus, I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle on solutions that will improve our aging public transportation system and bring it well into the 21st century."


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Versatile Green hoping for a callup to Oakland
By Jim Gintonio / Special to MLB.com | 11/10/12 12:00 PM ET
AFL Report: Oakland A's00:01:17
Grant Green, James Simmons and Max Stassi headline a strong contingent of A's prospects on display in the Arizona Fall League
PHOENIX -- Versatility is a wonderful attribute, but at times it can be a mixed blessing.
Sure, becoming proficient at a few positions might accelerate a trip to the Major Leagues. But when a player gets comfortable in one spot and is told to learn a new one, that can lead to frustration and, ultimately, delay a callup to the Major Leagues.
That's the situation for Grant Green, who is playing in the Arizona Fall League for the third time and learning his fifth position, as he continues to grind his way up the Oakland Athletics' organizational chart. This time, the former left fielder, center fielder, third baseman and shortstop is playing second base.
Green, who is playing for the Phoenix Desert Dogs, is 25 -- one of the older players in the league. He was a first-round selection (13th overall) in the 2009 First-Year Player Draft, and currently ranks fifth on MLB.com among the A's top prospects.
"I've always said when they started moving me around that it kind of stinks now, not having a position right away. But you never know," said Green.
"Maybe after I get a callup, [versatility] keeps me in the league [for] three, four, five more years if I can play five different positions."
Green is hoping his ability to play almost anywhere, coupled with his good numbers, will soon pay dividends. With the A's trade of infielder Cliff Pennington to the D-backs for center fielder Chris Young, and the club's decision to decline the 2013 option on Stephen Drew, it could be a good scenario for Green, whose average has hovered around .300 during AFL play.
Green's manager in the AFL, Aaron Holbert, appreciates the way Green has eagerly accepted every new assignment.
"I know in some ways it's probably tough for a player to come back for his second -- [and] especially his third -- time. But at the same time, you have to look at it as a good thing," Holbert said. "The organization likes you, they see value in you, and they're trying to figure out the best possible fit for you to help the Major League club.
"When you look at the big picture, and hopefully [Green] does, he truly needs to realize what a great opportunity he has to make the most of this [chance] here in the [AFL], because a good Fall League showing will bode well for him come February."
A good Spring Training, combined with a good scouting report, could propel Green. After his solid season at Triple-A Sacramento, it's no mystery what he hopes happens next.
"Definitely, [I'd like] a callup," Green said. "It's everyone's dream for next season. Hopefully, it'll be a fight during the spring to see who gets it."
Though he admits it is somewhat frustrating at his age to be sent to the AFL again, Green still considers it an honor to be selected for the Arizona trip.
"They could have sent me anywhere else, or they could have just said, 'You know what, we're not going to send him anywhere, and he's just going to go home and hopefully he learns,'" Green said. "But, yeah, it's a little bit nagging being 25 and being here. But in the same sense, there's a lot ... worse things that could happen."
Green played for Midland in the Double-A Texas League in 2011, which is typically dominated by pitching. He batted .291 with nine home runs and 62 RBIs, but struck out 119 times.
At Sacramento this past season, Green found his groove -- feeling he hit the benchmarks the organization set, including improving his power numbers. Following a slow start, which has become his norm since his first Minor League season, Green said he began to adapt to the pitching. He hit .296 with 15 home runs, 28 doubles and 75 RBIs, while cutting down considerably on his strikeouts.
"The strike zone definitely helped," Green said. "The strike zone gets smaller and smaller as you go up, so the Triple-A strike zone was way more hitter-friendly than in Double-A. Toward the end, I started feeling very comfortable. I felt like I belonged, so that was a huge plus for me."
Athletics hitters in the AFL
Miles Head, at the age of 14, was named the top player for his age in the United States by Baseball America. He turned down a scholarship to the University of Georgia to sign with the Red Sox after he was a 26th-round Draft pick (798th overall) in 2009. A first baseman, he was traded to Oakland this season and played at Midland, where he hit .272 in 57 games. Head was injured in his first AFL game.
Max Stassi is considered among Oakland's best defensive catching prospects. His father, Jim, and great-great uncle Myril Hoag played professionally. Stassi had his best season in the Minors in 2012, hitting .268 with 15 home runs and 45 RBIs for Class A Advanced Stockton. He is batting .268 with a home run and eight RBIs through 11 AFL games this season.
Athletics pitchers in the AFL
Gary Daley, a right-hander, was a third-round Draft pick (106th overall) of the Cardinals in 2006, and he has worked his way up the Minors. In '12, Daley was 10-10 for Midland with a 5.11 ERA, appearing in 34 games (18 as a starter). He has struggled a bit in the AFL, going 1-0 in his first nine appearances with an ERA of 8.38.
Shawn Haviland, who has a bachelor's degree in government from Harvard, turned 27 during Week 5 of the AFL season. He pitched at Midland this season, going 6-8 with a 4.80 ERA. In three AFL starts so far, Haviland has no record and a 5.19 ERA.
Brett Hunter is a 6-foot-4 righty who was a seventh-round Draft pick (214th overall) in 2008. He was 3-3 with Midland this season, posting a 4.50 ERA in 42 relief appearances. In his 56 innings of work, Hunter struck out 60. In eight Fall League relief appearances to date, covering 7 1/3 innings, he has a 6.14 ERA.
James Simmons returned to the AFL after playing there in 2007 and '09. The 26-year-old right-hander, who missed the '10 season with a shoulder injury, was a first-round Draft pick (26th overall) of the Athletics in '07. He began this season at Midland before being promoted to Sacramento, where he was 2-0 with a 1.80 ERA in nine relief appearances. In his first 10 trips to the mound as a reliever in the Fall League, he had an ERA of 1.93.


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You know how irritating it is when you send a letter to a friend and you get it back and it's stamped with 'Unknown recepent'...why? Reason is very simple and understandable in today's hectic life, your friend hasn't sent you ' I have moved' card with the new address!
We do not get upset when we receive our letter back because we have the old or wrong address to you, it's just a big shame that we know that you did not receive information about exclusive and great offers! So please, inform us when you change the address so you wont miss anything!
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New user - sign up here!
Scandinavian Airlines © 2016


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Acting on a suggestion by ravenstar in another thread:
This is a go-forward collation thread. It is to be a resource and not a place to savage the departed.We should have an "In Memory" thread for all the sock puppets/trolls/billy goats that come along to entertain us in 2013. It saddens me one day we'll have forgotten all about EnchantedSexWaffles
Please bear that in mind'
As this is the New Year some 2012 missing JUBBERS will be allowed.
Where is CowboyBob?


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...or browse here
Activities Animals Business & Services Car & Motorcycle Car Interior (1) Car Rental (2) Dealer (Car) (1) Electronics & Software Fashion & Clothes Food & Beverage For Kids Freight & Cargo Gallery Home & Garden Hotels & Accommodation Medical Nightlife & Entertainment Real Estate & Construction Restaurants School & Education Souvenirs & Gifts Sports & Fitness Technics Travel Wedding Wellness & Beauty Embassies & Consulates Non-profit Organisations
Search results -
We found 5 hits in the category "Car & Motorcycle".
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Adiguna Rent Car
PT.Kharisma Senotsa - Official Daihatsu Dealer
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indopages!biz service is a combination of European IT craftsmanship and Indonesian business skills. With more than 25 years of expertise in the field of web and computer development, we want to bring our experience and knowledge to Indonesia to bring the businesses of Indonesia into the 21st century online world, enabling them to reach interested people everywhere in the world: tourists preparing for their visit to Indonesia, the technology-oriented new generation in Indonesia and also the expats living on the islands.
You want to enhance the number of visitors on your existing website by linking from indopages!biz or you want a permanent website on indopages!biz, here is the best, most affordable and highest quality service solution for you. With our short direct links (e.g. www.indopages.biz/balicasa) you already found the perfect web address for your business cards.


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Henderson County citizens and residents of nearby counties now have access to their "man in Washington" with the opening of Congressman Mark Meadows' district office in Hendersonville.
Henderson County citizens and residents of nearby counties now have access to their "man in Washington" with the opening of Congressman Mark Meadows' district office in Hendersonville.
Meadows spoke to local government officials, business people and well-wishers Tuesday afternoon during a ribbon cutting to christen his new office, located on the ground floor of the Henderson County Courthouse.
"We're excited to be here in Henderson County," he said. "Both the county manager and the county commissioners have been extremely gracious in making this space available for us. We're excited about it."
The congressman also has offices in Waynesville, Lenoir and Spruce Pine, but the Hendersonville location will serve as the district office, said Deborah Potter with constituent services.
"We are trying to open offices in each of the 17 counties that are in his district," she said. "We've been open here since Jan. 3 and we've gotten calls from all over the place."
Issues that constituents have contacted Meadows' office about range from immigration to Social Security, Potter said. The current hot-button topic of gun control has also generated "a lot" of phone calls, she added.
The congressman's chief of staff, Kenny West, said this marked the first time that a congressman has had a district office in Hendersonville. Meadows chose Hendersonville as a result of the support he has received from citizens in the area, West added.
The local access is paying off in terms of his ability to help people in the community, Meadows said. The Hendersonville office recently assisted a woman who was having trouble getting her Social Security disability, he explained.
"We were able to cut through the red tape to help her," Meadows said. "Having an office here is definitely helping with the outreach in the community. When people in your community hurt and you are part of the community, you want to help."
County Manager Steve Wyatt said he was pleased that Meadows chose to locate his district office in Hendersonville.
"It's very important for the citizens of Henderson County to have access to their congressman because he works for them, just like I do," Wyatt said.
The office has a staff of 10 people and will be open from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday. The address is 200 N. Grove St., Suite 90, Henderson County Courthouse, Hendersonville, NC 28792. The phone number is 828-693-5660.
Reach Kelley at 828-694-7871 or email@example.com.


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Workwear at Brookes
Brookes offer an outstanding range of wholesale workwear, suitable for all activities and areas of work from construction to hospitality, and everything else in between!
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Somehow CF's philosophy is doing something to the guys working there, I can't say what but when your make a product with a shaky stance in today's society (that being 'gay' and 'pornography') then the last thing you want to do is piss off your customers or create a deconstructive approach on human desires. Just because you 'can' make a lot of money with (gay) pornography doesn't make it right to shun all its critics, not when they try to help you improve your business in a somewhat unsupportive world.
I want to believe this thread provides them with enough suggestions and feedback (we now know they read it) but if Mr. Fisher and his crew prefers to see (some of) us as trolls then they shouldn't be surprised if some of us will rather take our money to Mr. Blue or Mr. Cody. At least one of them has loosened its ethic.


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IN THE COMMENTS:1jpb said...
Who cares about the iconic appeal?Don't get me started. My family's tragedy was the death of Pierce-Arrow!
Losing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
Who cares about the iconic appeal?Don't get me started. My family's tragedy was the death of Pierce-Arrow!
Losing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
December 6, 2008: A date which will live in infamy.
They're not only going bankrupt, they're also going to go out and gather up every car they've ever made and destroy those too?
Seems like they would save a lot of money for restructuring by going ahead and letting the Ford and Chevy pickups, the Jeeps and Suburbans and PT cruisers continue to drive around.
Who cares about the iconic appeal?
Loosing Duesenberg and Packard (the early Packards, like mine) that was the loss of icons.
Beyond the, imho, silly iconic chit chat, there are legitimate financial and strategic problems with the decimation of domestic control and development of auto production.
Imagine an America with no more Corvettes! No more Caddies, Trans Ams, Camaros or Mustangs. No Ford or Chevy pick up trucks; no Jeeps or Suburbans. Not one PT Cruiser.
Is that supposed to be good or bad?
I kid, I kid. Who could stand to go without seeing the beautiful PT Cruiser in action?
Why does this blogger think that these cars would be gone? That's not what would happen if the companies were allowed to go bankrupt. These cars would still be made.
Don't worry, our salvation is at hand.
Obama will save us all with his plan for a new Civilian Conservation Corps and Work Projects Administration, and that will revive the economy so greatly that we will all be buying up American cars.
Just imagine all the jobs he will create handing you unemployed people a shovel and telling you to go work a road gang, not to mention all the people working to change light bulbs!
So what if the day laborers down at the 7-11 will get all these new jobs building roads and rebuilding school buildings? Your medical records will be on a computer! So that in itself is going to super-charge our economy!
Yes, a new day is dawning!
Who cares?! Honestly...the Mustang. Does anyone drive those? Anyone besides 16-year-olds in the South? And what's so damned special about the Jeep Cherokee? Chrysler has long since f-ed up the Jeep line. There's what? 15 models now. And they all look the same.
Get over it. American cars are crap. And not only because they are ugly. But because the people who make them are ugly, too. All those damned union workers making god-knows-what for driving a couple screws are finally about to get what's coming to them. Let them compete in the marketplace. Let them justify $25 an hour plus healthcare plus pension in any other industry.
General Motors is dead. Long live Toyota. Chrysler is dead. Long live Honda. Ford is dead. Long live Nissan.
"No Ford or Chevy pick up trucks; no Jeeps or Suburbans. Not one PT Cruiser. All gone..."
Isn't that the "green" lefty's most orgasmic dream ever? I thought they hated all cars except for the Prius and those ugly little "Smart" cars? They should be happy about this! Better get in shape! That 40 mile bike commute is gonna be murder!
I didn't click on the link because I'm afraid it might not be a joke.
Better safe than sorry.
"I didn't click on the link because I'm afraid it might not be a joke."
Oh it's a joke alright. Not intentionally so, but a joke nonetheless.
"What pathogens could possibly be responsible for KOS?"
Whatever it is, it certainly isn't the contagious happiness from the other day.
all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers
Simply the most ridiculous statement I've ever read in my entire life. The analysis of the situation is stunning. And by stunning, I mean stupefying. Analysis that slices like pliers!
The marks, the brands, the styles and what have you, are tangibles that will survive, thanks to intellectual property. Sure it may all belong to somebody else, but it will survive. Move along now.
The typos are the clue that it's not a joke.
Detroit faces many challenges. The biggest is: innovate or die.
"Rice burning Nissons [sic]"? Sounds like someone's clinging to "antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment."
"all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers"
I love the logical inversion demonstrated by the above. Yes, they are being "punished", how? By not getting the taxpayers to subsidize their excessive compensation packages. What is threatened is that they will have to depend on the health of corporations which their unions squeezed the lifeblood out of.
There are a lot of odd things about your post, but I'll just address one of them for now:
You wrote:
"The simple fact is that cars can be made just as well in 3rd world countries that aren't bound by obscene 40 hour work weeks, consumer- and worker-safety laws, and retirement plans.
The American worker is going to have to learn to compete with the cheap labor available in Mexico, Haiti, Bangladesh, and throughout the 3rd world."
Third world countries like, what, Tennessee? We're getting a Volkswagen plant in my town next year and couldn't be more thrilled. And we've lost out on at least a half dozen others who went to neighboring states. The South is just full of non-union, good wages, good benefits "foreign" car manufacturers. These are the folks that Detroit can't compete with.
In other words, imagine an America without a bunch of shitty, dangerous gas-guzzling cars and trucks, and without a huge bloated, whiny unionized blue-collar workforce.
Yeah, what will we ever do.
This is our chance to kill off one of the unions. Let's not pass it up, even if it causes further economic woes. We can ultimately lay the blame where it belongs: at the feet of the middle class. It's wake-up time for the overstuffed American comfort class. No more nanny state for the masses.
The middle class has to snap out of it's hippy dippy delusions about "the American Dream," or face the consequences. The global economy simply cannot sustain middle class incomes for a large proportion of the population. The lasting sin of big government/New Deal liberalism was creating the unreasonable expectation that middle class can be sustained at post-New Deal levels. Thanks to the Democrat Party, hundreds of millions of middle class Americans now feel entitled to live in their own homes, have access to world-class health care, and even send their kids to college. That kind of fancy living has never been sustainable for "the masses," as we are learning now. Compare this to India, or China, where 80% of the population lives in poverty, forming a dynamic labor pool that propels their economies.
The simple fact is that cars can be made just as well in 3rd world countries that aren't bound by high wages, 40 hour work weeks, heath care coverage, consumer- and worker-safety legislation, retirement plans, and other Democrat-largess.
The American worker is going to have to learn, like it or not, to compete with cheap labor from, e.g., Mexico and Haiti. And the American middle class is going to have to shrink back down to sustainable levels. That was the whole point of NAFTA and GATT and the other free trade agreements, and we're finally seeing a long-needed reordering of global economic priorities as a result.
Historically dynamic capitalist economies are able to sustain
— a small class of wealthy (1% or so of the population). This is the productive engine that drives investment, innovation
— a modest middle class, maybe 5%-10% of the population, to service corporations and the wealth. These are the professionals: doctors, lawyers, skilled tech jobs.
The only viable role for the remaining 90%, give or take, is service as a flexible labor market.
People have been doing fine under these conditions for centuries, but the American middle class is at a disadvantage, now, because they've come to expect (feel entitled to) a pampered yet unsustainable middle class existence. The transition to sustainability is going to be difficult for people who have come to expect middle class comfort.
So: Let's reorder the economy on a sound basis and take this chance to finally kill off the UAW, and with it the old liberal notion of a broad middle class.
This first step will lead to additional course corrections: Once the middle class shrinks down to sustainable levels, ignoring the internal contradictions of Social Security financing will become impossible. Within a few years, the entire system of federal entitlements will implode, liberating our economy once and for all from the restraints placed on it by 80 years of corrupt Dem leadership.
Yup. The end of the line for the big three. Yet Kos misses the point.
It won't be the end of the "American" auto industry. Just the end of three crappy, bloated companies that pay unionized workers too much money to make inferior vehicles that not enough consumers want to buy.
Once the Big Three are bankrupt and gone, the marketplace will have a vacuum. There will be a "pro-American" market out there for American-designed, American-built, American-brand cars. Someone will fill the void with a new company. And they will have the opportunity to do so with the benefit of lessons learned from the missteps of Ford, Chrysler and GM. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is Change You Can Believe In.
Taxpayer bailouts, on the other hand, hardly represent Change.
To people who still think unions are a good idea: this is the pot of chickens coming home to roost.
The Mustang is still a great car!
The Big 3 is doomed. It is a rotting corpse. Let it die and replace it with foreign manufacturers on American soil.
Even if the stupid union contracts (including the ones paying people not to work) are torn up, the ultra-generous pension and healthcare plans cannot be supported. There is no way UAW or Congress agrees to cut those. Therefore, thee is no way those get cut. Therefore, they remain a millstone around the Big 3's neck.
The Big 3 is a rotting corpse, and Congress just wants to prop it up, maybe inject it with a little juice so it can shamble around aimlessly like some kind of zombie for a few years until it needs another hit of zombie juice (taxpayer dollars).
We can only hope that this infection does not spread to other industries. That's the left-wing goal--to turn us into a socialist country by destroying our economy and folding the broken pieces into our federal government. That's why lefties always oppose sound economic policy and always support hoaxes like "Global Warming." They know that to achieve their goals, they must bring America to its knees.
Of course, in any good zombie movie, you know the ending in advance: we're all f#cked. This is the same way.
Think about what a great country this is where one can go from potential heiress to the Pierce-Arrow dynasty to starving art school student to tenured law professor at a top tier law school to world-renowned Blog Goddess zipping around in a precision European sports car jobby all in the course of one short lifetime!
My country tis of thee!
I think Congress should bring back the Studebaker, too, just for good measure.
"potential heiress to the Pierce-Arrow dynasty"
More like potential heiress to a mechanic shop.
And Meade has the bio and motion picture rights? You lucky bastard!
Pretend it's Cuba.
They have kept American cars from the 1950's and earlier going for half a century.
After you are done pretending, start dealing with the 21st century, where America is no longer ascendant in the auto industry.
It's called Change. Isn't that what the Kos crowd has been waiting for
"And Meade has the bio and motion picture rights? You lucky bastard!"
You may say I'm a dreamer... a lucky bastard dreamer.
I like to think of myself as an average ordinary blue collar premier myth maker babe magnet.
So we've come to the point where someone who thinks a business should stand or fall on its own merits, rather than being nationalized in part or whole, is an "ultra-conservative". Not just conservative, an ultra conservative.
I guess now if you believe in private property and free markets at all, that alone makes you somewhat suspect. I guess in the Obama Nation, the free market is just so yesterday.
It's been at least 5 years since the last Trans Am was made.
Not sure what the connection is between the GOP and the collapsing American auto industry. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been dying of the same self-imposed illness for 20 years, through both Republican and Democratic administrations. Blaming their plight on anyone but themselves misses the real issue at hand. Forgive us for being skittish about dumping billions more in tax dollars to keep their lights on for another six months when these companies haven't even proven they can run themselves properly.
That Pierce-Arrow background seems familiar.
My grandfather was a Packard mechanic, who went on to work for himself.
But, then the legacies diverge; I bought myself a Packard because I was inspired by pictures of my grandfather next to these big, beautiful cars from the past.
My grandfather only had joyful memories of his Packard days--contagious memories for me.
Thanks for losing the typo, I noticed it, but didn't feel like deleting and correcting the comment.
I love the wishful thinking in "let the Big 3 die, we'll all Buy Toyota".
First, why would Toyota build more plants in the USA if the big 3 are gone? They build them now because of the explicit and implicit threat of tariffs and quotas. A threat which will go away, when the big 3 go.
Second, once gone the Auto industry will never come back. Goodbye, millions of jobs. Who's going to hire them? Are to they all to be government employees?
Third, we are now running $500 billion dollar trade deficits with the rest of the world. What are we going to give the Japanese in return for all these shiny new Toyota's? US assets? More worthless dollars?
The same people who engineered the subprime fiasco, engineered the $700 wall street bailout fiasco, are now saying we need the big 3 to die. Hmmmm.....
The big three should leave the US, find low tax countries with workers who want to work, build cars to sell to the world, be successful.
Where to begin with RC's know-nothing comment. Treatises could be written.
They build them now because of the explicit and implicit threat of tariffs and quotas.
No. They don't. Foreign manufacturers build plants here now because they are profitable. That's why businesses are in business. To make money. Note where the plants are built. Are they built in Michigan, where unions have a stranglehold on the economy? Or are they built in the South, where labor is far cheaper?
we are now running $500 billion dollar trade deficits with the rest of the world
Why is that, RC? Why has the United States run trade deficits for decades? Is it some conspiracy? No. It's because our currency is strong and our labor is expensive. If your goal is truly to get rid of the trade deficit, the thing to do is to lower labor costs substantially and decrease the cost of our money.
I don't understand what the problem is with bankruptcy. These are failed businesses. They can't pay their bills. They need to completely change the way they do business. Bankruptcy allows that.
Finally, I read something the other day that was intriguing. The bailout, rightly, has involved banks. If you want money, go to a bank. That's where all the money from the government has gone.
Republicans did not destroy the American automobile industry, and the implication that they did is fatuous. It was destroyed by the UAW and management both assuming that they could be as inefficient as they wished as long as all American manufacturers were more or less equally burdened. It didn't work out. Life's a bitch. It only gets worse for America if we force our economy to drag along a zombie automobile industry. Both UAW and management made the bed. They should now be forced to lie in it.
I agree RcOcean. It is time to look out for our nation's self-interests.
Why doesn't Congress ever discuss the financial incentives the Japaneses auto companies get from their govt? Oh sure Congress delves into the national healthcare in Japan because Dems want that here too. But I an sure the Japanese govt gives plenty of other yen! Plus the Janps and Asians buy very few of our cars? Why is that?
Let's have an economy that looks like Japan's. So free and growing so much.
While we're at it, let's get a criminal justice system like Japan's, too. Rights, shmights.
I feel compelled to reiterate something: we will never, ever, ever erase the American trade deficit or even begin to start competing with foreign manufacturers in any industry where wages are high. It's basically a mathematical impossibility.
How can people not understand this? You can't expect to sell more of your stuff when it is far more expensive than other stuff that is the same.
If you want high wages, you cannot also have a trade surplus. To believe otherwise makes you a moron.
I must assume that all the military's trucks/ airplanes/ and other assembly line produced stuff will always be available as imports from the friends we have e all over the world. But what if they cause Co2 and have been banned by the UN in the future?
Traditional -- Certainly, because no American entrepreneur would fill that niche. Never. If these three companies go bankrupt, another American vehicle will never be made. Bankruptcy is death, and birth is not allowed.
"My grandfather only had joyful memories of his Packard days--contagious memories for me."
If you mean to imply that my grandfather was bitter and groused about his misfortune, you are wrong. I never heard him speak about it at all. I have had to imagine the disappointments he had. He never talked about anything like that.
Precisely how does our Congress think we could handle another WWII without an auto industry to make the trucks, the tanks and the parts for repair?
How does our Congress plan to handle the 1 MILLION pensioners from GM who suddenly don't have a pension? That's one in 300 Americans.
How does our Congress plan on handling Michigan loosing another 800,000 jobs like we lost in the past 8 years.. but this time all at once?
What the hell are they thinking? They've given buttloads of cash without hesitation to the financial firms who have used it for bonuses and to buy other foreign companies but STILL AREN'T LENDING money to people to buy cars!
Is Japan's standard of living significantly lower than ours? If not, how do they produce cars at a lower cost? After we factor in the elimination of the US disadvantage for pensions / benefits.
Regarding future pension promises that are not funded, Congress is to blame.
Congress has sat idly by for years while some big businesses and many many state and local govts devised overly generous pensions but did not fund them.
That was also a violation of the law of mathematics Seven Machos mentioned.
Why is it always assumed that the only alternatives are to bail out Detroit as is, or watch GM, Ford and Chrysler disappear without a trace?
When United Airines went bankrupt did all its airplanes immediately vanish?
These companies have contractual obligations with their labor force and dealer networks that are unsustainable. If they are to regain profitability, they need to renegotiate these deals under Chapter 11 protection. Let the bankruptcy laws work as they were intended - there is no pain-free way for the government to "save" Detroit.
Ignoring the fact that a lot of folks won't buy a car from a company in bankruptcy, and ignoring the fact that bankruptcies drag on for a long time; are you suggesting that Chapter 11 (w/o the gov financing anyway) will not lead to Chapter 7 in our current situation? Then, add in the problem of selling cars while a long (likely Chapter 7) bankruptcy works through the courts.
If you don't care about the loss of the domestic design and development control in autos, what do you think will replace this work and innovation? Are you a promoter of the race to the bottom philosophy?
Austerity didn't work for Hoover, and it didn't work for FDR. And, we are blessed that the US is the biggest of the too-big-to-fail, hence the big money of the world is still forced to dump their cash into Treasuries. Treasuries provide a return, even if it's almost zero on the shorter stuff--that's still better than losing money. Treasuries are the way the world's big money gets stuffed under the proverbial mattress.
Let's quasi-arbitrage this cheap money to find a floor so that things can get moving in the right direction. Hopefully, the Fed will work to lock in the maximum amount of cheap money for the longest terms possible.
Maybe the foriegn companies were worried about quotas, like we had while Reagan was president, so they started assembling here.
We're like a developing country to the foriegn companies who assemble cars in the States. The home countries keep a lot of the high powered technology, innovation, and development: we do the grunt work.
They are getting better than us at the making advancements. That seems like it could be a long term problem. At least we're still blessed with a lot of domestic material resources, but we should probably look at our human capital relative to other developed countries. Maybe our material resources have made us overconfident; how much of our growth is the result of our commodity wealth versus our brilliance. Would Japan be so advanced if they had the crutch of a lot of domestic commodity resources?
Folks may want to read recent Sully posts (including dissents) about health care and pensions.
No PT Cruiser or Jeep Cherokee? Where do I sign up?
Seriously, those are two utter piles of shit. Until recently so was the Mustang; now it's just a half pile of shit. It may look nice, but the suspension is outdated crap.
That aside, Ford isn't going under. They are actually getting their house in order. The only reason they showed up in DC is they heard free money was being handed out. Truth is, though Ford will never admit it, they will benefit if GM or Chrysler go under. Not only will it reduce the [over] supply of cars, it will give them incredible control at the bargaining table--in fact, they may just tell the Union to go to hell and hire scabs, which will be easy as pie.
Chrysler is the worse of the three and should have already gone under. The only thing decent they make is the Viper (which loses money) and the Dodge Ram Pickup (especially with the Cumins diesel, which Ford would love to get their hands on since their diesel engine isn't very good.)
Somewhat recently I worked on a project that forced me to learn about GMs part distribution system. It's dreadfully "designed" and horribly inefficient. (By contrast, Ford's part distribution system is a dream.)
People won't buy a car from a company that is in bankruptcy? Really? Did they not fly American while it was in bankruptcy? That seems a hell of a lot more perilous.
It's one thing to buy a car, quite another to put your life in the hands of a pilot.
This argument is absurd and spurious. Next, please. And, really. Try harder.
Japan produces lower-cost cars because it has lower costs.
traditionalguy at 2:41, a lot of the military's vehicles come from AM General, which is not one of the Big 3, and not, to my knowledge anyway, involved in the bailout negotiations. They build the H2 Hummers for GM and would be hurt if they lost that marketing channel, but would they be hurt enough to have to shut down production of military vehicles? I don't know enough to say, but I doubt it.
Bradleys are built by BAE Land and Armaments, an international company with its US HQ in Minneapolis.
It's not WW II any more, when the auto companies turned the assembly lines over to military production.
Airplanes, now, that might be another matter. Though the contract for tankers has not yet been given to Airbus; Boeing may yet prevail.
The auto companies are not going bankrupt - Congress will not allow it, except under some kind of hybrid bailout/bankruptcy that preserves union jobs and wages. Isn't it strange the auto companies have been bargaining as if they're in a position of strength? It's because they're as strong politically as they are weak financially.
The biggest benefit to bankruptcy from the auto companies' perspective is it allows them to renegotiate union contracts. There's no way the Democrats are going to cross the UAW like that, even if it means a permanent IV of taxpayer money into the sector.
The only real question is whether the Democrats bring enough Republicans along to make it a "bi-partisan" bailout.
My daughter tells me that the new ones are worthless and ugly.
I don't think she'd drive a new Mustang if it arrived at Christmas with a big bow on the hood.
She wants an 80-something Camaro.
Weird kid.
The Corvette is an amazing car; it's highest performance models are in many ways superior to cars manufactured by Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati and others.
I look forward to the day when I can buy a new Corvette at a price that reflects a restructured GM's labor cost.
That being said, I miss and still yearn for the Nash Metropolitan. Gone, but never forgotten.
The new Republican Slogans for 2010:
"$700 billion for Wall Street but not one Dime for Detroit"
"American Workers Drop Dead - you make too much."
Should be a winner.
That you are someone who would make a major durable good purchase of a car from a company that is broke, with an uncertain resolution (Chap 11 or 7, and gov $ or no gov $, and unknown macroeconomic expectations), says a lot about you.
If there were more folks like you it wouldn't matter what kinds of uncompetitive cars were produced domestically, some sucker would buy them anyway.
"all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers"
Actually the problem was that Democrats forced the US auto companies auto companies to build small cars that no one wanted to buy at a price that would allow the companies to make a profit. (Foreign companies could make those cars profitable for reasons that had a lot to do with more amenable labor unions.) But, all of the great cars will not disappear. In fact they will be on the roads for decades to come as people refuse to buy the cars Congress is going to design for Detroit to produce in return for subsidizing them.
Does she need a theme song ?
"American Workers Drop Dead - you make too much."
Should be a winner.
Of course it's not a *winner*.
It's just true. And truth isn't very popular.
It's much more popular to tell people that corporations are evil and have unlimited funds and there are no down-sides to making them pay you more.
Granted, no one is saying that the auto-makers are victims. They dug their own hole.
The question is, should taxpayers bail out an industry that has been bailed out before?
The rant Ann quotes is pretty typical, it seems, of an argument that simply does not admit the existence of economic reality. No, it's just mean and vindictive motivations... the only reason that "conservatives" do anything. Hate.
rcocean said...
The new Republican Slogans for 2010:
"$700 billion for Wall Street but not one Dime for Detroit"
You seem to have forgotten that most Republicans did not vote for the Wall Street bailout. You also should note that most of the money donated from Wall Street went to Democrats. Also consider how many from the Clinton Administration were on Wall Street making millions per year. Think of Raines, Gorelick, and most of all Robert Rubin. How much of the $700 billion will go to George Soros, not a friend of Republicans? But, I think you have nailed another Democratic Party big lie.
I am pro-bailout. Lending is the basis of our free economy. Without banking, everything else falls apart quickly. See, for example, the Great Depression, when for years Roosevelt and Hoover kept money tight, further constricting a constricted economy.
I am convinced that people on the fringe left and fringe right simply do not understand economics. How else could you possibly believe that the way to save a struggling business is to keep it exactly in a position where it is losing money? If the unions and management wanted to solve their problems, they could do so, easily. They don't, though, so to hell with them. Bankruptcy law is there for a reason.
Finally, what's so special about the auto companies? Nothing. Not one thing. What about General Growth. They own malls. Mall are vital for shopping. What about Fred's Bakery and Big Schlong's Porno Emporium? Why not those businesses?
"What about Fred's Bakery and Big Schlong's Porno Emporium? Why not those businesses? "
Donuts and porn - there will always be demand.
Talk about too big to fail-- Fred's and Big Schlong's going out of business would truly be Black Swan events.
I'm finally reading Amity Shlaes' book on the Great Depression, "The Forgotten Man." Two of her complaints with FDR and the New Dealers were their insistence on making business the scapegoat, and the effect of his "bold, persistent experimentation," both of which frightened investors into keeping their money on the sidelines due to the persistent uncertainty.
Seems like the opposite is taking place now. We have people like this Kos diarist, a leftist, who gets teary-eyed thinking about GM, Ford and Chrysler and can't imagine life without them. It's Feel-o-nomics.
I suppose Feel-o-nomics creates another kind of uncertainty. Companies could make the tough choices to survive in this economy. Or they could create a wave of sentimental nostalgia and hope they can use that to get a bailout.
Which other businesses would the left give a sentimental bailout? Here are some "deserving" candidates:
The Simpsons
The New Yorker
The Boston Red Sox
Burt's Bees
Wham-O (makers of Frisbee and the Hula Hoop)
American Spirit Cigarettes
I have always thought that John Stodder was one of the most sensible and intelligent posters on the Althouse blog. But to suggest that the Boston Red Sox deserve a bailout can only mean one thing.
You sir are a communist.
Whole Foods
Ben and Jerry's
Harper Collins
The New York Times
Can't let any of these irreplaceable companies fail.
But to suggest that the Boston Red Sox deserve a bailout can only mean one thing.
You sir are a communist.
John Cusack and Ben Affleck love them and would be very upset if anything ever happened to them. I realize they're profitable now, but you can never be too sure. They deserve at least $2 billion.
Chip Ahoy said...
all looted by ultra-conservatives eager to punish generations of American workers for the sin of not voting for the GOP in acceptable numbers
Simply the most ridiculous statement I've ever read in my entire life. The analysis of the situation is stunning. And by stunning, I mean stupefying. Analysis that slices like pliers!
The basic analysis is correct, save the motive was not to screw the middle class, but enrich the wealthy further. The mechanism was the informal Bretton Woods II, where American Elites agreed to let cheap Asian labor wipe out manufacturing and depress wages in services and thus give themselves 10 digit GNP Growth. In return they would expect to honor the dollar's dominance and give America's Elites, particularly in the financial and real estate sectors, a cut of the action on the recycled Dollar.
It was a brainchild of ultraconservatives in the Reagan Administration. America would then be the "knowledge economy" where we would have all the IT workers and the experts the Asians needed to make their new ex-American industries prosper. And they thought we would dominate new technology, like cell phones, fiber optics, plasma screen TVs.
And all the Asian dollars ploughed back in could go into Gov't, which would allow supply side conservatives to massively grow the Government under Reagan AND cut taxes.
It worked, just like someone quitting his job to be a poker player and using his inheritance and home equity to get a big line of credit. Meaning - it worked for a while. The middle class was told, despite their huge unease about factory after factory closing, that "Exciting" new jobs were coming. The losses had little to do with the manufacturing or services jobs being union or not. The only criteria was if Japan, then later China, Pakistan, Indonesia, and India could do it cheaper than the American.
The trade deficit exploded. More unease. The masses were told "real estate!" was the answer - nothing need be made in America anymore but houses and "the small niche military market that needs domestic product."
Now the crap has hit the fan.
I don't care if John Cusack, Joan Cusack or your ball sack loves them, there is one thing that is perfectly clear:
And that dweeb Ben Afleck dumped a hot chica with a sweet ass for a skinny buck tooth sckank so what the hell does he know about the price of beans.
What is Burt's Bees?
The 140000 UAW members don't make all that much more than the non-unionized workers at the foreign transplant factories. The bulk of the almost $30/hr difference is benefits, which I believe includes retiree benefits. If all the UAW members work a 2000 hour year, the aggregate extra cost to Detroit is around $8 billion per year. GM should have gone Ch11 a few quarters ago when they became technically insolvent but still had the cash reserves to get through it. Ford will probably be OK and its interesting that of the Detroit 3, they are the ones with a product guy in the lead, even though his signature product is the Boeing 777. Chrysler is private and not too big to fail. Their IP of any value - mostly Jeep - will be sold and soldier on.
And the US will still not get a clue that we need to make things and incent and respect who can and do.
Ben and Jerry's?
Maybe not.
This place in Seattle had it's Ben and Jerry's replaced with Red Mango.
At least they still have two standalone Starbucks, plus one in the QFC, and another one in the Barnes and Noble--I did mention this is in Seattle.
What is Burt's Bees?
"Earth friendly Natural Personal Care for the Greater Good."
"At Burt's Bees, our goal is to help create a world where people have the information and tools they need to make the highest ethical choices and do the best for themselves, their families and the environment."
Their signature product seems to be some kind of organic lip balm, but they also make shampoo, skin creme, cologne, etc. The lip balm works pretty good.
Interesting that liberals comprise most of Red Sox Nation, since the dirty secret is the Sox were the last team to be integrated -- fully 12 years after Jackie Robinson joined the Dodgers.
Yet my Dodgers seem to have no cachet among the glitterati. Our most famous fan is Alyssa Milano.
Boston teams have always been the most racist teams in every sport. It is just typical of the liberal hypocrisy that they pretend that it isn't so.
This is of course not such a big issue anymore since black athletes won't play baseball anymore.
Oh and Alyssa Milano sucks!!!
But in a good way.
A very very good way.
If Cuba can have the same American cars forever, so should America.
Quick, Congress, put yourself in charge and make this wish come true!
I am feeling the fuzzy, cooling effects of Burt's Bees lip balm as we speak. It's a miracle product, really, particularly in a cold Chicago winter.
U use it all the time. I have friends who are addicted to the stuff.
I use it all the time. Typos can ruin a good joke.
I always get more edumicated here. It pays to ask if you don't know something.
I have a tube of Bert's Bees lip balm. The kids may steal my Chapstick but they never steal my Bert's Bees. My husband asked to use it once and was very sorry. I don't like it either. Bleh... smells like perfume.
Chap Stick is a lot better than it used to be.
Then there is good old Carmex.
Just never put it through the washer and dryer. Trust me. Worse than crayons.
Ford is anti-gay. I hope they go bankrupt.
California, too, Downtown. And virtually every other state, and nation.
The auto industry is 4% of US GDP. Over $500 billion a year.
Sure you can let it go bust, but the cost will be a hell of a lot more than $35 billion.
Yes, I hope California goes bankrupt too. I hope your whole fucking country goes bankrupt.
I'm enjoying your Depression.
Downtown -- What nation with stunning GDP growth do you call your own?
I've said it before - but I really do think that the bankruptcy of the Big 3 would be a great capstone in George W. Bush's legacy.
Please let it happen.
The worse shape the economy is in on January 20th, the more breathing room Obama will get to enact his agenda.
My country enjoyed double digit growth last year.
I'll start calling myself an American again on January 20th.
Sane people don't wish ill on their own country.
If you actually do care about the US economy though, it is important not to let these companies go under.
Nobody's buying cars because people are worried about the economy. They are worried about their jobs and their savings. So they make their existing cars go farther. That causes the economy to slow or shrink. But they can only make their cars go so far. Eventually they buy new ones and that helps the economy grow. Well if these companies aren't here, the US will never experience the rebound will. Japan and Korea will instead.
That might be good for the world's economy, but I'm not sure its good for the US. Those jobs, 11% of the world's manufacturing industry, will be gone forever.
I think they should do some sort of restructuring, maybe allowing one of them to go under and get absorbed by one of the remaining 2.
Here is a tip for you if you lost your job and need to make some money. Bet big on Oklahoma in the BCS championship game vs. Florida.
You can make some money too on Penn State in the Rose Bowl and I bet Texas Tech will win too though I am not sure who Texas Tech will be playing.
AJ Lynch - It's not my country. I've already left. US voters have made it very clear that they don't want gay people living there.
Hmm DTL I must have missed that ballot question....what did it ask something like "Are you in favor of gay people living in the USA?"
Just what we need, to follow the economic prescriptions of a raving lunatic who believes that the world revolves him and his gayness.
Yes Seven - Your economic policies, practiced by George W. Bush - have just done wonders for this economy.
AJ Lynch - when you pass constitutional amendments that say "Gays are now second class citizens" that's exactly the message you are sending to gay people - that they are not welcome in your midst.
Fine. I listened. Now I get to laugh at your Depression. I had a smile on my face when I read Friday's jobs report.
Enjoy your "time abroad," Downtown. As someone who knows quite a bit about consular law, I can assure you that it's tremendously difficult to renounce American citizenship. So, when Obama becomes president, and everything automatically becomes rosy again, we'll welcome you "back" with open arms.
"I'll start calling myself an American again on January 20th."
That's nice. We, however, will continue to call you an insufferable, needy, sociopathic faggot.
I'm not renouncing my citizenship. I still have to pay taxes, and even if I renounced my citizenship - I STILL have to pay taxes for 10 years.
That's why I still vote. But I don't have to live there. And my earnings and income are now helping the economy of another country.
"My country enjoyed double digit growth last year."
What, in the sex tourism industry? They should offer you a medal for, uh, single-handedly causing that windfall.
At least I have a job Palladian. And I'm not fat. And I have friends.
"And my earnings and income are now helping the economy of another country."
How many Thai boys can you buy on 45K a year?
Palladian - Next to gaypatriot - the most self-loathing gay person in America.
"At least I have a job Palladian. And I'm not fat. And I have friends."
How much do you have to pay them? Is it by the hour?
How racist can you be against Asians Palladian?
We already know that you didn't vote for Obama, solely because he's black. Now we realize that you don't like Asians either.
I am betting that Downtown is hunkered down in his efficiency in Chelsea right now, masturbating with seething hatred.
I feel sorry for gay people who are fat. Gay men care a lot about looks.
If I was in Chelsea right now - I'd be out drinking with my friends.
Now I'm heading off to the gym.
Bye Seven.
You might want to know that the mask you are showing in your profile is quite popular in gay S&M clubs.
Good day.
Yeah, I'm sure my mask is popular at gay S&M clubs. You'll see guys wearing it all over La Lucha in Mexico City, just for example.
I thought you were leaving. What happened? You can't quit me, I guess.
"Palladian - Next to gaypatriot - the most self-loathing gay person in America."
Haha. I'm not self-loating. I loathe you.
When did you finally come out of the closet? When you were 45? That's funny. See, I've been "out" since I was a teenager in conservative rural Pennsylvania, back when being "out" actually carried some risk. At the same time, you spent those years on your knees in restrooms and alleyways all the while pretending to be straight during the day because you were too much of a pussy to be honest with yourself and the world. And now that everyone responds to gayness with a shrug and a yawn, you're suddenly SUPERFAGGOT! Hurling SUPER POWERED insults with impunity and anonymity at those of us who dare "disagree" with you! Able to repulse and sicken people, straight and gay, with a single blog comment!
You're pathetic, Mary.
"We already know that you didn't vote for Obama, solely because he's black. Now we realize that you don't like Asians either."
I know! I even wore my Klan hood and carried a burning cross to my polling station in a public school in south Brooklyn. And those fucking Asians! Man I hate them! I'm calling my Taiwanese and Japanese friends right now to tell them how much I don't like them!
I don't care. Every American car I've bought, including the Saturn, has been a disappointment.
The trucks were OK, but still not as good.
The sad thing is my Toyota Corolla was made in Georgia.
It's not American workers that are the problem. It's American car companies. If American workers are building Toyotas, they seem to do a better job.
Jeeps have been built by: Bantam. Ford, GM, Willys, AMC, Chrysler, Mercedes (Daimler) and now a hedge fund. I expect that Jeep will end up somewhere, the more important issue for sports car and muscle car people is what will happen to the Connor Ave. Viper plant? I would also expect Corvette and Mustang to survive, with the high-end Corvettes as their American competition and Porsche as their primary European competition Viper does not have an easy road. Viper also doesn't seem a logical fit for any of the world's majors except for Toyota and their Toyota Racing Division, however Toyota has their own problems. I've been musing that maybe Viper could end up being owned by a group of (or individual) wealthy Viper Club members. Viper is no Pierce Arrow, but they are America's most outrageous modern cars.
I wish I were in Chelsea right now.
"I wish I were in Chelsea right now."
London, New York or Clinton?
Pretending she was my intern heh.
So this gay guy walks into a bar full of nine-year-old boys in Thailand. Chelsea Clinton is there. Bartender says, "Hey pal,..."
There's a punchline here. I'm just not able to think of it.
Have to be something like "Hey Pal see anything you like?" then segue to the punchline where the gay guy sees Chelsea and says "what a coincidence Chelsea Clinton is here; it was women like her mother who turned me gay!".
Chelsea stomps out of the bar, and he says, "There goes the neighborhood!"
GM is becoming hysterical about bankruptcy. Yes, sales would decline, but Chapter 11 reorganization will give them flexibility they need to fix many of their problems. They know this and I could understand them being worried, but why do they keep acting like it's the end of the world?
My theory; GM is not only in far worse condition than they are letting on to anyone outside a tight inner circle and has committed criminal fraud hiding that fact. Bankruptcy will expose all the dirty laundry and people will go to jail.
My 88 Dodge Colt is suffering predictable breakdown. Piece of junk. Cars don't last 20 years anymore.
Made by Mitsubishi, which I chose because of their aircraft experience.
And try finding a Zero these days.
AJ Lynch said: Plus the Janps and Asians buy very few of our cars? Why is that?
Duh. The Japanese don't buy American cars because they drive on the left side of the road.
During the post-war occupation and reconstruction it was decided by GHQ to retain Japan's left-driving to discourage the American Auto industry from flooding Japan with American cars.
Ironic, eh?
In the early postwar years, with passenger car production restricted by GHQ, motorcycles and three-wheelers played an enormous part in meeting the demand for motorized vehicles in Japan. In fact the Bank Of Japan didn't think an auto industry was necessary which gave rise to MITI and keiretsu.
GHQ also decreed that Allied vehicles would be rebuilt and repaired by Japanese firms to bootstrap the industry, who carefully studied our work methods and repair techniques, adapting and refining them.
Toyota developed JIT not from studying our auto industry but Piggly Wiggly, another irony.
Every competitive advantage the Japanese learned; we taught them. You might want to Google W.F. Taylor, Frank Gilbreth, and especially W. Edwards Deming.
Stupidly, we did not apply the knowledge to our own industry. The Big 3 crash & burn is way over due and as others have commented they did it to themselves.
BTW-Denso Corp is GM's top supplier, don't fret, the Japanese will take a hit as well.
American vehicles needed to have been built better. I think that is the core of the problem. In 1984 I bought a Chevy truck, no frills, three speed on the column, probably the last one made. No air conditioning. Within 2 years the paint started to fall off. I mean big pieces after a rain. I painted it last summer, and there was no paint on the cab and hood. Some paint left on the bottom parts. I've had to replace the generator, starter and brakes, which was no big deal, and did the work myself. It's been reliable for 148,000 miles. Except for the paint, which limited the resale value, almost immediately.
Next up, I bought a 1998 Chev S-10, and had to replace the clutch after 80,000 miles, again, at 120,000 miles plus some transmission parts. Sometimes you could get it into 4 wheel drive, sometimes you couldn't get it out. Everything broke on the car, and by 1997, it was a piece of rust.
Because I had a 55 mile drive to work, and was closing in on retirement, I spent $8500 on a GEO Metro. Made in Canada it has been a blessing, and is still going strong at 168,000 miles. I have to replace the exhaust system about every 4 years, but do the work myself, so it's relatively inexpensive.
I remember when I got out of the Army in 1968, and my father bought a brand new Dodge truck. The worse piece of crap made. Needed a new engine after only 20,000 miles, and by 60,000 miles was a rusted piece of junk.
That's why Detroit is having problems.
Dang! Make that "I bought a 1989 Chev S-10"
That's why Detroit is having problems.
Quite a while back I heard Phil Condidt (of Boeing) tell a story about transmissions. Apparently the Ford Ranger and Mazda pickup used the same transmissions. Both companies had the exact same specs, but the Ford built transmissions had reliability problems. The engineers tore apart the two transmissions but their precise measuring tools couldn't detect any difference.
After further study they found that the Japanese transmissions were more perfect than the measuring tools could distinguish. This extreme precession was necessary for that particular transmission design.
He also said that China told Boeing they would not buy planes unless a lot of the construction took place in China. We would never want to put pressure on foriegn companies who want access to our markets, that's not free trade.
1jpb: Exactly. This Deming page will further illustrate the point. Ford did not seek Deming's advice until 1981, the Japanese had a thirty year head start at that point.
Our auto industry is not competitive because we have not made it so, all of us are responsible, the customer who buys iconic marketing and accepts lesser quality as long as it is "cool".
Management, shareholders, unions and politicans are mutually culpable. They began to see the auto industry as a means to produce wealth and votes; the Milo Minderbinder approach.
When better quality, fuel efficient and/or hotter iconic alternatives were offered the public switched in staggering numbers. Still the Detroit dinosaur lumbered on, adding more overhead baggage and producing cars years behind the imports; unaware or incapable of accepting that the import asteroid was about to render them extinct.
Detroit had a serious heads up in the 70's. Ford responded with the more fuel efficient Taurus-Sable cars of the mid and late 80's. GM and Chrysler plodded on through the morass of too many badges, low quality and Congress grandstanding with unrealistic federal regulation time frames; all larded with executive merit bonuses, dividends and labor benefit packages until they finally reached the edge of the insolvency tar pits.
I have extended family members who will be negatively impacted if GM is forced into bankruptcy, but the cost per unit of management and labor must be reduced to make the industry competitive. They must then address the issue of quality control, CAFE goals and most importantly plant realignment and retooling, the mother of all of money-sucking tar pits on Detroit's horizon. Retooling alone will take 4-5 years. Our pockets are not that deep, soon the taxpayer, if not already, will be tapped out. Then what? Bankruptcy.
Do it now, accept the short term pain, before it becomes a Sisyphean task.
People won't buy a car from a company that is in bankruptcy? Really? Did they not fly American while it was in bankruptcy? That seems a hell of a lot more perilous.
Not really. Once you've made your flight, you've received everything American owes you. If you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy, how can you guarantee a supply of spare parts and service? What about warranties? Ask Peugeot, Fiat, and Alfa Romeo owners what it was like when they abandoned the US market.
To those saying US cars are crap, have you been to an auto show this year? The latest batch of new GM cars, like the Pontiac G8 and Cadillac CTS, are light years ahead of GM's past efforts. Interior quality and design is top notch, GM's powertrains are a good as ever (never slam GM's engineers), and ride & handling is as good as anything out there. I currently own a Lexus, but I'm seriously considering a CTS, it's that good.
"Rice Burning"? Very intelligent journalism there. How ignorant! The American auto companies have had plenty of time to correct their ways, but instead thought it best to rest on their pathetic American laurels. "We're Americans. We practically invented the car so we don't need to be taking advice from any other country's business practices." Typical American mentality. And now look where its gotten you. It's an eat or be eaten world and the American automakers have just been served up with a side of steaming rice.